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Kristi KT7 restoration pictures

It is bizarre that it is starving like that. Just so I understand it correctly:
  • On FLAT land, in LOW range everything works great. Turn, Tilt, Drive.
  • On FLAT land, in HIGH range, it goes forward/backward but squeals when you try to turn?
  • On an INCLINE, in LOW range it squeals.
It seems odd that on flat ground it works in low range but it does not work on an incline. If you turned the unit around 180 degrees, would it work on the incline then?

Do you have a gravity feed on the hydraulic oil system?
 
B_Skurka said:
It is bizarre that it is starving like that. Just so I understand it correctly:
  • On FLAT land, in LOW range everything works great. Turn, Tilt, Drive. === That is correct
  • On FLAT land, in HIGH range, it goes forward/backward but squeals when you try to turn?=== That is correct
  • On an INCLINE, in LOW range it squeals.===That is correct and it will not move at all in High range , just squeals louder
It seems odd that on flat ground it works in low range but it does not work on an incline. If you turned the unit around 180 degrees, would it work on the incline then? ====No , no change at all.

Do you have a gravity feed on the hydraulic oil system[/quote === Hydros are now plumbed into the "return to tank" low pressure side of the body tilt valve .

One thing I forgot to add : If I hold the forward /reverse lever long enough the squeal will stop and the lever will act like it broke off . NO resistance at all , no sound ,nothing !!! ??? It just flops around from forward to back . I put it back into the neutral position and soon it starts to work again and squeal but engaging it too hard gains the same result again . ?????????????
Click to expand...
 
BigAl said:
Hydros are now plumbed into the "return to tank" low pressure side of the body tilt valve .
Click to expand...

Waitaminutehere.....are you saying the SUPPLY to the motors is plumbed through a valve? I would have to say that is not correct (If I understand you correctly). I can't imagine a little 3/8" or 1/2" valve can have anywhere near the correct flow needed to supply the motors.

What would probably happen is you would end up with the flow reversed, and start to suck out of the tank through the return line. Would this even then be trying to suck backwards through your filter?
 
DaveNay said:
Waitaminutehere.....are you saying the SUPPLY to the motors is plumbed through a valve? I would have to say that is not correct (If I understand you correctly). I can't imagine a little 3/8" or 1/2" valve can have anywhere near the correct flow needed to supply the motors.

What would probably happen is you would end up with the flow reversed, and start to suck out of the tank through the return line. Would this even then be trying to suck backwards through your filter?
Click to expand...

That is correct and the diagram I made , even shows it . That is the way it was plumbed before I even started the restoration* . That part ,I am sure of .

*One idea ,??? Do you think that possibly the hydro port that I "think" is the supply port is actually the return to tank port?? I originally had the suppy line direct to the oil tank but it was gravity feed only and did not work .
I am closer to having the drives working now than anything else I have tried so far .There is no doubt in my mind , that the system justs needs more oil than it is currently getting to work correctly. At this point the hydro guy will be here tomorrow and I think I will give it a rest .
 
BigAl said:
That is correct and the diagram I made , even shows it . That is the way it was plumbed before I even started the restoration* . That part ,I am sure of .

*One idea ,??? Do you think that possibly the hydro port that I "think" is the supply port is actually the return to tank port?? I originally had the suppy line direct to the oil tank but it was gravity feed only and did not work .
I am closer to having the drives working now than anything else I have tried so far .There is no doubt in my mind , that the system justs needs more oil than it is currently getting to work correctly. At this point the hydro guy will be here tomorrow and I think I will give it a rest .
Click to expand...

The biggest problem I have with your diagram is there is no tank shown.
 
DaveNay, I *think* when Al is talking about a lever, he is talking about the control lever on his variable speed (2-speed?) pumps, and not a valve lever. Just a guess from looking at his photos. Even if his motor circuit is plumbed through a valve, this is not necessarily a terrible thing, just potentially a waste of energy and generator of heat and cavitation. Not how I would do it though.

Al, Everything you describe points to a pressure maintenance problem. I must admit I'm still struggling to visualize exactly what your hydro system is composed of and how it's hooked together, but maybe the pressure relief valves are the culprit, if not the scapegoat.

At a given resitive torque on your drive motors (high = hills, turning), you will reach higher line pressure between the pump and drive motor in high range (larger pump displacement) than in low range. The higher pressure might be enough to pop a faulty pressure relief valve (squeeling as high pressure fluid escapes through the valve orifice). Also if the relief valve is faulty and sticking in the open position after it pops (squeeling stops after low line pressure is achieved), this could possibly explain why there is little resistance from moving the control arm, as fluid is being diverted right back to the reservoir resulting in low system pressure. After the valve sits for a while and the system fully depressurizes, the faulty valve may then close and you'll have normal operation until the next time you pop it.

Anyway, that's just an amateurs $.02 worth and probably wrong! It will be interesting and a learning experience to figure out what is wrong with your system. Please keep us posted! Best of luck tomorrow.
 
DaveNay said:
The biggest problem I have with your diagram is there is no tank shown.
Click to expand...

OK...after looking at your diagram some more, I would say the "H" port of the pump is the pressure side, and the "J" ports on the motors are the return to tank ports.
 
Al, everything points to your pressure releif, they are in the block between the pump and the motors, the bad part is you will have to pull the hydro unit
out to clean and check the springs and seats. remember this is a closed loop system and you only need about 2-2.5 gallons of oil per pump to charge it.
you really should check the system pressure that would show you right away
as it starts to squeal if your pressure drops you are pushing past the releif.

I looked back in some old photos that you had post in another section of f/f
under oil around 6/24/06 it looks like your pump for the tilt and pressure to the pump is a basic power steering pump that would also have a pressure releif built into it but if your tilt is working then that releif should be fine.

You should have the onsite hydro guy do two checks if he brought his gages
1.) pressure port on the side of each pump motor block
2.) pressure/vaccum from your tilt cylinder/charge pump where it feeds your
pumps if you have pressure all the time you are not cavitating if you pull a vaccum then you are not getting enough oil to the pumps

those pump motors of that vintage were operating in the 2500-2750psi range
your releif should hold to that ammount of pressure
 
Al, one more thing you should know is that the oil that your tilt pump/charge pump is doing is taking the heat generated from the pump motor combo and pushing it to your coolers it looks like you have a cooler for each pump/motor
and it also will carry small particles of wear from them also so it is important
that you have flow through the system. you should have a way to monitor
your oil temp if you do not already ideally from each pump motor would be perfect.
 
boggie said:
Al, one more thing you should know is that the oil that your tilt pump/charge pump is doing is taking the heat generated from the pump motor combo and pushing it to your coolers it looks like you have a cooler for each pump/motor
and it also will carry small particles of wear from them also so it is important
that you have flow through the system. you should have a way to monitor
your oil temp if you do not already ideally from each pump motor would be perfect.
Click to expand...

Great points about cooling/cleaning of the closed-loop system Boggie. I replaced the hot oil idiot light on my ASV unit with an oil temperature gage so I can watch the heat building and take action before I have a problem. Boggie would know for sure, but I think the various synthetic seals/guides used in the hydro pumps/motors are heat sensitive, and when those go then repairs start to get very expensive. Not to mention that heat represents work being done by your hydraulic system and is an actual power loss. A cool system is an efficient system.

Being married to a trauma nurse, I'm always reminded of safety. In the unlikely event that you are injured by a stream of high pressure fluid from a broken hose/fitting/etc., be sure to tell the ER crew that you have suffered a "high pressure injection injury." A pinpoint leak in a high-pressure hydraulic hose can have the muzzle velocity of a rifle, and can deeply penetrate flesh and inject the dirty fluid beyond the obvious open wound. It must be cleaned out properly to avoid a serious infection.
 
Congrats Poobah.
This thread has reached 1000 posts. :applause: :thumb:
We're waiting anxiously to hear the outcome on this hyd issue.
 
Hi you all .
Ok here is the latest information . The pump hydro drives are Vickers TA15 or 19's . That is as good as it gets . The hydro guy wants me to trailer the cat to their repair shop and they will take it from there .He did not start it, test it ,or check the pressure .
Here is the bad news . The pumps if they are gone are about $4000. each . Based on that and the labor to remove and replace and correctly get them working , the bill could easily be $15000 plus ....

I was lucky and retired early in life and yes , The good lord has been good to me and my family but their is no way I can spend or afford to pay $15,000 dollars for two hydro pumps on a hobby project . $15000 would easily get the KT4 ready for the Idaho County's sheriffs dept and I would rather spend the money for that then put it in these two pumps that is only for my personal use .
I am in the motion now of looking at a "mechanics school" that I can attend to learn how to repair these hydros myself . I have no problem with paying for the testing to find out what shape they are in , but the rebuild cost from them is out of my league . I am at a complete loss right now as to "what to do " .
I told him I could remove the pumps myself, and bring them to him , but he did not seem to be interested in this idea . Do these guys work off commission ????
 
Al, Give me a call We can do much better than that..............and yes most shops would rather sell you new ones. mostly becase they do not know how to fix them. it's to bad that the art of repair has gone by the wayside the attitude now seems to be sell them a new part it's less hassle and more revenue. We happen to have pumps and motors in stock but you would have to rid the right angle drives still keep the two speed.

Brad
 
Brad ,
Right now I have decided to take a break and weigh my options .I would like to keep it basically stock on the drive system . The hydro guy did tell me that it is the same system they used in a New Holland Skid Steer loader of the 1970's . The KT7 will be fixed but it may be put on the back burner for a while .
We are getting ready to return home to Idaho for a little R&R for a while . I have a barn to build !!!
I still honestly believe that it is a simple fix , but until I gain more knowledge I am unsure what to do . I am studying anything and everything ,I can find on the internet as we speak . I have a repair manual coming so that will be a great help .
 
Al, You need a break, I agree, I still think it is just your Releif valves consider this pull your pump/motor combos box them up ship them to me I will look at them no charge..... find a better deal than that and I will buy you a beer.............I will clean your releifs and check the springs. and then put them back in and try them...........

Brad
 
Allen, you've gotten this far and overcome so many problems, I'm sure this hydraulic problem will be figured out. I'd suggest that you take boggie up on his offer. It will do a couple things. First, it will give you some time to get away from this project, and honestly you need to take a break. Second, it will allow a real hydraulic expert to eliminate all the guesswork and give you the answer you need. We can all dance around this problem on the internet trying to help you fix it, but for the cost of shipping you can get this figured out. It might not be fixed, but it will be solved and you'll know what needs to be done to get it fixed; that alone is 90% of the battle.
 
boggie said:
Al, You need a break, I agree, I still think it is just your Releif valves consider this pull your pump/motor combos box them up ship them to me I will look at them no charge..... find a better deal than that and I will buy you a beer.............I will clean your releifs and check the springs. and then put them back in and try them...........

Brad
Click to expand...

Right now I have a mason jar glass filled with a God Awful wonderful "hard spirits" creation and I am doing my damnest to just relax and think nice thoughts for awhile .

The hydro guy told me my reliefs are right on top , so now I might try cleaning those up before pulling the units .

I may be taking you up on your offer, but you need to come to Idaho next winter as my guest , here at the ranch . We are going to try and plan a real wingding for snowcatters . So far I have about 20 people /kids showing up . The more the merrier . Hell , You even get a soft cushy bed in the ranch house complete with a down comforter .
That is 10' from the bathroom and 30' from the covered deck chair where you can put your feet on the fire ring and look at Elk while I serve you drinks .
 
Al,

There's a some information on your pumps/motors on the Eaton Hydraulics digital product literature website for you to download and peruse. These documents are catalogs, parts diagrams, model codes (important for obtaining parts) and some service information.

For the Vickers TA19 Series the url is:
http://pdfx.mcgware.com/pdfx_Eaton9...light=&aids=&vids=&origvids=-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,

For the TA15 Series the url is:

http://pdfx.mcgware.com/pdfx_Eaton9...light=&aids=&vids=&origvids=-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,

There is good info in here! Read it and have fun learning.

Best of Luck! - Paul
 

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Hang in there Al!!!!

You'll be :dancing: :1062: :drive2:

... in no time. Remember, you'll find the problem in the last place you look!!

Vance
 
Thanks Everyone .
I just won the service manuals for a 1970's L-35 New Holland Skid Steer loader on ebay . $127 , but it is suppose to have it all . I hope so . I also downloaded the Eaton manuals . So Now I just got to figure out if it is a TA15 or TA19 pump .
Allen

Back to honeydo projects
 
Al, The 15 stands for 15gpm@1800 rpm and the 19 is 19gpm@1800rpm
when and if you do check your pressure releif valves check the springs for they loose presssure after 30 plus years of being compressed and you need to also check pressures and flow from your tilt/charge pump, if you need to borrow at set of test gages in think we have two that checks pressure and flow at the same time.........if you have questions..... please ask.

do you know what that 4 cylinder is rated for hp?
 
boggie said:
Al, The 15 stands for 15gpm@1800 rpm and the 19 is 19gpm@1800rpm
when and if you do check your pressure releif valves check the springs for they loose presssure after 30 plus years of being compressed and you need to also check pressures and flow from your tilt/charge pump, if you need to borrow at set of test gages in think we have two that checks pressure and flow at the same time.........if you have questions..... please ask.

do you know what that 4 cylinder is rated for hp?
Click to expand...

My Kristi brochure says it is rated at 87 Hordepower . I think they (Kristi) are being very generous . It is a 1972 104 cu.in. V-4 Ford Industrial Engine .
Thanks for the offer . I have another name of a guy down here who may be able to test the system for me . He supposenly has all the test equipment . We shall see .
Allen
 
Where's TOMO?, hell wheres Big Al? probably ran off to Panama or went underground again. Our one and only defender of extinct Kristi's has bailed? Say it aint so! This doesn't cut it! Frikin Spring#%*!.
 
Tommo checked in a while back, said he is very busy in Baghdad ducking bullets and morter rounds. But promised to check back in here when he returned to England.

BigAl is, as Boggie wrote, building a new barn in Idaho. He is pretty much out of touch for several weeks as he only has 'dial up' service and a computer that is powered by squirrel running in a rotating wheel.
 
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