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Kristi KT7 restoration pictures

Al, how about a picture of the flakes? and I dont mean any of the members of FF. it would take alot of flakes to plug the filter. but it could cause some back pressure. that would have potential to slow the system but not stop it.
which port did you determine was the suction side?
 
Big Al.
Now I know these are two diffrent beasts but hear it goes. On my new / used log spliter everything was working fine till I blew the oil filter off and dumped 4 gallons of hydro fluid in my leg. OK so I went and cleaned the tank, replaced the old oil filter housing replaced the hydrolic control assembly. and replaced one hose. Filled with 11 gallons of new hydraulic fluid. I ran the log splitter one more time before it started to snow. It sat for 6 months with no use and was completely covered from the weather. My nieghbor needed some hydro fluid for his portable log spliiter he had and ask if I had any oil since the local place was closed on Sunday. I told him he could use my splitter. Instead he opted to syphon some fluid out of my tank. He pulled out about two gallons and it had big dark flakes that would just disentigrate upon handeling. Dont know what they were but suspect they came from the crud lining the return hose to my tank. Still dont know or care everything runs great. My point is unless you change everything and wash out all of the components you will have old crap left in that will eventually get fitered out with your filters. Keep changing them often until eveything is clean. I know they are expensive but one every month of use for the first season should work. Just keep checking.
 
I second what SO is saying - run it. But, I'm no hydro "expert".

What about having an oil sample analyzed? I know that all the hydrostatic dealers pull a sample and analyze it to determine the "health" of a machine.

I'm not sure what the analysis can tell you but it might be worth a call to someone who does it. (No, I don't know of a source off hand) I have heard it is about $20-40 to have a sample analyzed.

Vance
 
Al, we have the sample bottles here, but if you do not get it to go to high range. it might mean you have to do a tear down anyway.... have you checked your springs in the pressure releif yet?any pressure checks?the bad part is you are dealing with a dated drive even if you get it to go to high how long will it last?Can you disconnect the drive from the motor to the right angle drive and test with no load ?

Keep us informed
 
Al, the flakes are nothing to worry about my source says as long as they are not metallic!!! He also recommended getting an oil test done after you have run the unit for a couple of hours. He assures me those units are some of the best units ever built and were used in alot of other stuff besides skid steers. They are(the flakes) the same substance that builds up on your oil cap if you drive your car around town and it does not get warmed up properly. The white creamish substance..... A little condensation in the oil is all.
 
Ok Boy's ,listen up !
I'm buying so get over here ... This is the strangest thing I have ever seen . I now am 100% sure I have a starving oil problem .

I cleaned up everything and installed a correct hyd.filter with new oil . I fired it up and started working the body tilt to chase the air out and then started moving the steering levers back and forth . At first nothing happened ,then the low speed side started to work ,then the high speed side started to work .The motors stop squealing ... Now the hi speed is trying to work but both hydros are squealing again in hi range .

The right track hydro works perfect in low speed . Plenty of power in low speed . Left Hydro low speed is weaker and starts to squeal if I give it to much lever . Low speed has me scootin around at about 3 MPH . You can definately tell the right hydro is working better than the left .
Do I need to use a pressure supply to the hydros ????? You can listen to the ford motor and tell when the hydros are getting oil .They stop squealing and work . The RPM's come up and it does not bog down when moving .
Oh I also ran over and knocked off one of my my lawn lights .That thing is a little wider than the car . :cry: :17875:

So talk with me . Do I need to send a pressurized oil line to the hydros??? I am beginning to wonder it this was the way it was before,so it could force the oil to the port . I have one thing left to try which is to check the suction intake again and make damn sure it is correct .
I'm Close , I can smell success :fart2: .
 
It sounds a lot like it acts like a tractor with a hydrostatic transmission. A tractor with an HST needs to have the engine RPMs reasonably high to effectively work attachments and to work move the machine.

You may have another problem with the oil starving issues. Did you alter the oil capacity or did you reposition the hydraulic oil tank? Are the new lines smaller than the old lines? Is there anything that you may have done that could have contributed to starving the hydraulic pumps?
 
Al, were does the pressure for the tilt hydraulic's come from ? sounds like to me if this is another source this should have been pressure feeding your hydrostatic system with about 150-200 psi . All hydrostatic's need a charge pressure to run proper a flooded inlet is not enough. most new systems have there own charge pump internally. the charge pump becomes even more important as systems age they make up for the leakage in the closed loop. even if your system has a internal charge if your leakage has exceeded the capacity of that pump due to wear it will cavitate. if your were to charge with addtional oil you will still have a usable system. that is why when you buy a used hydrostatic machine you need to have someone test the charge
pressure because they could have just turned up the charge pressure to cover a ailing machine.
 
B_Skurka said:
It sounds a lot like it acts like a tractor with a hydrostatic transmission. A tractor with an HST needs to have the engine RPMs reasonably high to effectively work attachments and to work move the machine.

You may have another problem with the oil starving issues. Did you alter the oil capacity or did you reposition the hydraulic oil tank? Are the new lines smaller than the old lines? Is there anything that you may have done that could have contributed to starving the hydraulic pumps?

Lets see ... I'll answer in the order asked > No.no and no .

Its something simple , I know it is .

I do have one more question : Do these hydros change which port is sucking depending on which way the lever is positioned ??? Basically do both ports need to have a reliable oil supply if need be . My return dumps in the top of the tank .
 

Al, no,no, and you should never dump into the air you need to bring your return oil line back to the tank under the oil supply otherwise you are creating air to mix into the oil supply air is not your friend.
 
BigAl said:
My return dumps in the top of the tank .
That would be a huge design flaw.

Is there a tube inside the tank so that it might look like it dumps into the top of the tank but in fact the internal tube actually routes the return hydraulic oil to the bottom of the tank below the air level in the tank?
 
Thanks Guys ,
Another piece of the puzzle solved . I was not aware of that .
 
Al, Your welcome....... lets get that damm thing running so you can have some fun.:showerSex all work and no play is not fun.besides the Mrs. might forget who you are.....
 
My only words of advice I was given are make sure if you use a pump to precharge them that the pump is of a High Volume Low Pressure design. And supplies more than the GPM of your drive pumps.... (both of them) This would have to be a fairly large pump (not a power steering pump). IF the other pump on your engine was used for this where would you get Hydraulic pressure for your body tilt?? You CANNOT restrict the return flow out of the hydro units with a valve.... Al possible I can get some pics to send to Ernie???? He said he would LOVE to work on the machine.... Hope this helps, Mike
 
My advice is to take it to one of these guys above or someone like them! You are close but its hard to listen to you and then try and figure out the real problem. Just my advice. Since you dont have the proper tools to check the pressures and such get it to someone who does.
 
boggie said:
Al, were does the pressure for the tilt hydraulic's come from ? sounds like to me if this is another source this should have been pressure feeding your hydrostatic system with about 150-200 psi . All hydrostatic's need a charge pressure to run proper a flooded inlet is not enough. most new systems have there own charge pump internally. the charge pump becomes even more important as systems age they make up for the leakage in the closed loop. even if your system has a internal charge if your leakage has exceeded the capacity of that pump due to wear it will cavitate. if your were to charge with addtional oil you will still have a usable system. that is why when you buy a used hydrostatic machine you need to have someone test the charge
pressure because they could have just turned up the charge pressure to cover a ailing machine.


Brad ,

There is a small hyd. pump that runs the tilt hydraulics . Are you saying I should install a pressure line to the hydro's from this ??? It may have been that way before , but my diagram is unclear .
Allen
 
It will be easy enough to run a hi pressure oil line to the hydro's .All it takes is one small fitting change added to the pressure side and cap off the old "non pressure" one .I guess i can try this in the morning .
Al
 
Al, you do not want high pressure to feed the hydros you want not to exceed 400 psi if you are going to use that aux. pump you best test its pressure first. or maybe they have a pressure regulator in that loop. but I would beleive that your tilt is operating at more than 400 psi most likely 1200-1500 psi. you also need to get that return line below oil level. if you feed high pressure to the pumps above 400 psi you will or may blow the seals out of the pump cases.
 
Al, rule of thumb if you have a hydraulic piston pump, which you do, your charge pump should have the ability to pump at low pressure 10% of the volume of the pump since we do not know what you have but my guess a looking at your picture and knowing what you have for a engine source would say that those are about 20-25 gallon per minute pumps each or 50 gpm total between the two so assuming and beleive me I do not like to assume because that can only at times make a (ass) of (u) and (me) but we have be designing hydraulic systems for 25-30 years some for the military. it is just not the same if you can not see what you have going on. back to the point assuming 50 gpm total times 10% 5-6 gpm at 150-200psi never more than 400psi
look at your hydraulics from the aux and see if they have a pressure regulator in the loop? or two one could be set at 1200-1500 psi with a tee and another set at 150-250 with a tee ?most likely spot for the regulator is the valve itself. did you ever find any material on that pump if we could see the diagram we could tell you in a flash what they are doing.
 
boggie said:
Al, rule of thumb if you have a hydraulic piston pump, which you do, your charge pump should have the ability to pump at low pressure 10% of the volume of the pump since we do not know what you have but my guess a looking at your picture and knowing what you have for a engine source would say that those are about 20-25 gallon per minute pumps each or 50 gpm total between the two so assuming and beleive me I do not like to assume because that can only at times make a (ass) of (u) and (me) but we have be designing hydraulic systems for 25-30 years some for the military. it is just not the same if you can not see what you have going on. back to the point assuming 50 gpm total times 10% 5-6 gpm at 150-200psi never more than 400psi
look at your hydraulics from the aux and see if they have a pressure regulator in the loop? or two one could be set at 1200-1500 psi with a tee and another set at 150-250 with a tee ?most likely spot for the regulator is the valve itself. did you ever find any material on that pump if we could see the diagram we could tell you in a flash what they are doing.

Morning Boggie ,
no I have no diagrams on the pumps . I am hoping that the New Holland manual I am bidding on will shed some light . There was no regulator in the old system . That I would know .
So , I guess I am back to square one . I have a ton of pictures I took before disassembly and I guess I will spend this morning going over them AGAIN .
Al
 
Ok ! I give up ! I am sore everywhere from standing on my head , bloody from scaping my hands and tired . Real tired . I need to put a pressure gauge on the system. One motor runs perfect in low gear . The other works about 50% . I have high range now but still have the squeal and it is not working more than 50% at best .
This is what I did today :.
1. Extended the return line in the tank so it dumps below the oil level .
2. Removed the one way check valve that supply "low charge" oil to the pumps . This would have been a huge restriction .

Only one last thing I can think of to do . It is damn near impossible to see the hose connections on the bottom of the pumps . I will get a mirror and make sure both motors are connected the same .

If that is correct than it is time to call in the experts .
 
Update :

OK ,I am just too tuckered out to do any more on this . I called the "biggest local Logging company" in our area . The head man in the "Cat Shop" gave me a ton of information . He also gave me the phone number to one of the largest Hydro Repair companies in Calif . They have salemen/experts that travel all over the western states .
Anyway ,I just got off the phone with the guy and he will be in the area on Thursday . He will stop by and try to determine my problem . He is a licensed expert in "Hydro power flow systems" and assured me that they could repair or fix my problem . He has 30 years in the trade . So first they are going to look at it to see if it is something simple and if necessary I will trailer the whole rig to their company for repair . He also told me my Vickers model # is not correct and I may have to rebuild the ones I have ,as some old systems:thumb: are no longer avalible for sale .

It may end up costing a few dollars but I want it right ,especially if my friends and family are in it .
I feel better now that I know it will be checked and corrected to new condition .
 
I would still want it right . What happens after he gets out is another question . I actually don't have any hard feeling . He has his opinion and I have mind . Sort of a tomotoe / tomatoe thing . I wish him well .
 
Al, you have this don't you??? Looks like the two systems are combined somewhat???
 

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mbsieg said:
Al, you have this don't you??? Looks like the two systems are combined somewhat???


Yes I have it Mike , I have it posted in my shop on the wall and have studied it for hours . I also have looked at my first diagram that is a rough draft of this one . I have spent 2 1/2 hours this morning going over and enlarging my photos of the hyd. system . I talked with a hydrualics expert who will be here on Thursday .

There is one thing I need to check in the morning ,otherwise I am completely lost as to why the drives are not working .

When I originally puchased the KT7 the sheet metal cover was off the hydro drives . Why ????? The old KT7 owner told me they were working perfectly . I have checked and rechecked every thing I can think of . If everything was working perfect ,why was this cover off ???? This has driven me nuts and I am not someone who gives up easily .I do not like the feeling of failing or giving up ,but I just DO NOT have many ideas Left other than the drive pumps have failed . Hopefully it will be a simple fix but whatever needs to be done , will be done . Everything else has turned out or is working very well on the KT7 .

I am extremely impressed with the HDPE track cleats .I believe it is a very simple way to make a set of tracks that work well and are fairly inexpensive .I am considering changing the KT4 to these also ,when I rebuild it .
I can't lie that I will be very happy to go back to a gear drive system like the KT4 has to work on . I understand gear drives and Hydros are my weak point . I honestly believe I can design and build a regular hydraulic system for the Body tilt on the KT4 with my eyes closed now !!!
I guess I will have my answer on Thursday .
 
Hey Al we have not seen a posts lately are you stuck under the yetti do we need to call for back-up. Hello 911 "we would like to report a man being swallowed by his yetti " "we think his hairdew is stuck in a hydro " all available hydro technician's report to assist the man with the hairdew yetti stat............... No ..... Al what I was really hoping for was that you got the yetti crusing and you are going to surprise us all with some snow pictures.
 
Boggie one of us Snow Trac owners went over to BigAls house and pulled his KRISTI up the 2% grade hill he was stuck at the bottom of doing circles. His Kristi looked like a dog chasing its tail. Guess one hydro is working correctly or something embarrasing like that. Anyway the last I saw him was when he was kicking his dog drinking some strange multiple shot drink. He was walking down the driveway talking to himself.
 
Snowcat Operations said:
Boggie one of us Snow Trac owners went over to BigAls house and pulled his KRISTI up the 2% grade hill he was stuck at the bottom of doing circles. His Kristi looked like a dog chasing its tail. Guess one hydro is working correctly or something embarrasing like that. Anyway the last I saw him was when he was kicking his dog drinking some strange multiple shot drink. He was walking down the driveway talking to himself.

Mike ,
You are closer than you know !!!:snow2_smi: :fart2: :alc: :oops: :cry:

Ok here is the latest :
I went out this morning after stealing my wifes make up mirror . After studying the oil port connections for an hour , I decided that I had a hose crossed on the left motor that would not run correctly yesterday. It took me another 1 1/2 hours to reverse the two hoses . The connections are under the hydro drives and there is about 2 " to work in . Most Of it was done using a mirror .
I refilled the oil tank and fired it off . At first nothing happened and then BOTH Motors started working perfectly in low range , in a no load condition . It will spin around on a dime in either direction . I then tried high range and it works in both motors now but will stop if I try to turn and then the motors start to squeal again . I still am starving for oil . Anyway I bailed off the hill thinking I had low range but as soon as I hit the incline and put a demand on the system the motors started to squeal . I ended up towing the KT7 back up on the flat area and as soon as it hit the level area the drives started working again . I then left it there for 4 hours and just went out and pulled it into the shop using lo range . It is running perfect again ,but this is in a no load situation . ?????
So... I know damn well it is starving for oil but I just do not know why or where . The oil lines had to be cross cause both motors seem to be working as long as no load is demanded .
Tommorrow morning the hydro guy will be here .
About the only thing I can still do is plumb into the high pressure side of the aux hyd pump that controls the body tilt . But I am sure it was not plumbed that way before .
Ideas ?????
 
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