• Please be sure to read the rules and adhere to them. Some banned members have complained that they are not spammers. But they spammed us. Some even tried to redirect our members to other forums. Duh. Be smart. Read the rules and adhere to them and we will all get along just fine. Cheers. :beer: Link to the rules: https://www.forumsforums.com/threads/forum-rules-info.2974/

Muslims

beds said:
Actually, I found the muslim-dominated society that I lived in to be very tolerant of other religions. The Muslims there were quite forthcoming with information about their religion and about Christianity. Islam believes - as does Judism - that Jesus was a prophet but not the son of God. Muhommad is the prophet who wrote the Quran. There were practising Christians living in that society and working alongside practising Muslims. There were varying degrees of worship amongst the Muslim population - some people didn't go to daily prayers, some women didn't wear the headgear (Kuwait is cinserbative, but not as conservative as Saudi or Iran). I worked in Kuwait for a year and people all around knew that I was a Christian and they respected that. Didn't get any anger directed towards me based on my religion.

Just as not all muslims are fundamentalists, not all muslim societies are either. There were no beheadings or stonings or taking of hands in Kuwait (part of fundamentalist Shari law) while I was there, but there were alot in Saudi. Don't paint all muslims or muslim societies with the same brush.
Click to expand...

Very well said.

People I believe can also act and behave differently in the societies and culture that they were brought up in. That being said, going back to the old analogy of "people being people", you have "good" muslims and "bad" muslims (just as with any other religion).

Getting in way over my head, to some extent I think religion has been one way that men have tried to control the people "underneath" them (Christianity being no exception).
 
beds said:
................. Muhammad is the prophet who wrote the Quran.
Click to expand...

From what I have learned of the religion, based on information presented on the History Channel, Muhammad didn't write the Koran, but spoke the words that were later transcribed after his death to keep a better record. The problem with that was that it was much later based on what was remembered by the elders. They also explained where the religious intolerance and violence came from. Tonight the History Channel is starting a new series on the Ottoman Empire, which should help with this discussion. Those that want to learn more, should try to watch it. Junk....
 
Junk, I already have the recorder set to record the History Channel tonight. (7pm Central)

Correct me here, but wasn't the Koran actually written during the 6th century A.D.?
 
Junkman said:
From what I have learned of the religion, based on information presented on the History Channel, Muhammad didn't write the Koran, but spoke the words that were later transcribed after his death to keep a better record. The problem with that was that it was much later based on what was remembered by the elders. They also explained where the religious intolerance and violence came from. Tonight the History Channel is starting a new series on the Ottoman Empire, which should help with this discussion. Those that want to learn more, should try to watch it. Junk....
Click to expand...
My understanding is that Muhammad was an illiterate who was given the word of God and he then produced the Quran which is supposed to be a very eloquently written book. I suppose he could have simply verbalized the word of God...
 
Lets start off with the premise that most people of that time were illiterate, given the times. I can't say that any one of the prophets was literate or not, and today, the best that can be said is that there were scribes that recorded the stories that were handed down from generation to generation. As we all know, those stories changed and evolved from what they first were, so how accurate the stories were, it is also difficult to tell. Whether it be the Torah, the Old Testament, New Testament, or the Koran, they are all a collection of stories that were recorded after the fact. This is why there are so many different translations and interpretations of these documents, if the word documents is even correct...... Junk....
 
Well I found this to be a fascinating read. This is just the very first part of the article, the article can be found at the link below, but it certainly casts some doubts on the origins and the interpretations.



http://www.corkscrew-balloon.com/02/03/1bkk/04b.html

Scholars Scrutinize the Koran's Origin

A Promise of Moist Virgins or Dried Fruit?

New York Times (and International Herald Tribune), March 4, 2002
colorbar.gif

​
Scholars Are Quietly Offering New Theories of the Koran
By ALEXANDER STILLE
​
To Muslims the Koran is the very word of God, who spoke through the Angel Gabriel to Muhammad: "This book is not to be doubted," the Koran declares unequivocally at its beginning. Scholars and writers in Islamic countries who have ignored that warning have sometimes found themselves the target of death threats and violence, sending a chill through universities around the world.
Yet despite the fear, a handful of experts have been quietly investigating the origins of the Koran, offering radically new theories about the text's meaning and the rise of Islam.
Christoph Luxenberg, a scholar of ancient Semitic languages in Germany, argues that the Koran has been misread and mistranslated for centuries.
koran.jpg
His work, based on the earliest copies of the Koran, maintains that parts of Islam's holy book are derived from pre-existing Christian Aramaic texts that were misinterpreted by later Islamic scholars who prepared the editions of the Koran commonly read today.
So, for example, the virgins who are supposedly awaiting good Islamic martyrs as their reward in paradise are in reality "white raisins" of crystal clarity rather than fair maidens.
​
 
B_Skurka said:
Scholars and writers in Islamic countries who have ignored that warning have sometimes found themselves the target of death threats and violence, sending a chill through universities around the world.
Click to expand...

This line of the article speaks volumes all by itself concerning Islam.
 
Cityboy said:
This line of the article speaks volumes all by itself concerning Islam.
Click to expand...
Kind of reminds me of the ruckus raised over the Episcopal Gay Bishop that was ordained last year.
 
Doc said:
Kind of reminds me of the ruckus raised over the Episcopal Gay Bishop that was ordained last year.
Click to expand...

I think the key word is "extremest" (sp?) no matter what you believe in.

The question is then why or how did said person become an "extremest" (sp?)?

Unlike the debate of heriditary (sp?) vrs. enviroment, I think we can all agree that the enviroment is the cause. The question is then what variables in the enviroment?
 
Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeey Guys!!!
WooooooooooooooooooHooooooooooooooo this topic is gettin' Hot!!!
Anywaaaaaaaaays
I Am a Muslim :D<<<<So what?
And I'm From Saudi Arabia WoooooooooooHooooooooooo
Weeeeeeeeell now some of the members will look at me with hatred or somethin
well thats not why I registered to this forum
I registered to tell ya somethings
one of the things Is
Im 18 years Old wooooooooHooooooo<<<So?
and I study medicine!!!<<<<Drop dead
Lol
Well lets get serious
first of all
people r afraid of muslims cuz they wanna kill and kill and kill right?
WRONG
Muslims r forbidden to kill any non muslims unless they r at war :D
so be thankfull Im not gunna kill ya guys woooooooooohoooooooo
thats the first point
second point not all muslims r extremists
maybe 20% of the population r extremists
it was more than 90% before 10 years maybe
BUT
Thank god that King abduallah is our king now
he is an open minded person thats makin everything right!!
there used to be a Saudi Religious Police called Hayah
Well Now they r a minority since the king is cutting they're Budget Low!!
WooooooooooHooooooooooooo
And If u come to ksa
Dont think that saudis well kidnap u then asasinate U
They will treat u with proper respect
Well I know Im not qualified to talk about islam cuz Im just a kid
But what Im trying to say that
Dont think that all muslims r bad since the terrorists r muslims
the terrorists think that they r right and and and...
But guess what
ALL of the sheikhs in Saudi arabia said that all of the terrorists r NOT considered Muslims
Cuz Killing people for no reason is absoultly WRONG & forbidden
Well I hope u get the picture
Muslims r gooooooooood but a lil percentage r Baaad
:D
Thank u so much for reading this stuff Ive been writing
Dont think badly of muslims!!! I said it b4 but a small minority ruined the way people look at islam
Thanx Guys!!!
Buhbyeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
 
Hey Dr.D, nice to have a different perspective on this forum and in the thread.

Just like SOME Muslims are extreme, you will find SOME Christians are extreme, and SOME Athiests are extreme, etc. I'm glad you jumped in to offer some perspective.

On the other hand, I'm also a bit skeptical that you are who you say you are. Your IP address links back to Saudia Arabia, but seems to bounce to Amsterdam and that IP covers a wide area of Europe including Turkey. Now as to the writing style, while it is the style of an American youth, it also seems like you are trying too hard, so I am even skeptical that you are young!
 
B_Skurka said:
Scholars and writers in Islamic countries who have ignored that warning have sometimes found themselves the target of death threats and violence, sending a chill through universities around the world.
Click to expand...

Cityboy said:
This line of the article speaks volumes all by itself concerning Islam.
Click to expand...

doc said:
Kind of reminds me of the ruckus raised over the Episcopal Gay Bishop that was ordained last year.
Click to expand...


Cityboy said:
Meaning....?
Click to expand...

The soon to be gay Bishop received death threats. He was the target of death threats, from angry Episcopal Church members.
 
Doc said:
The soon to be gay Bishop received death threats. He was the target of death threats, from angry Episcopal Church members.
Click to expand...

Gotcha. Must have missed that news cast. :reacharou

On edit:The Episcopalians are in the news again - From Drudge on Monday 6/19. Maybe the Muslims need some gay clerics to show the love and progressiveness of Islam...:D :reacharou


http://today.reuters.com/news/newsarticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2006-06-19T193318Z_01_N19347151_RTRUKOC_0_US-RELIGION-EPISCOPALS-BISHOP.xml&pageNumber=1&imageid=&cap=&sz=13&WTModLoc=NewsArt-C1-ArticlePage1

New US church leader says homosexuality no sin
Mon Jun 19, 2006 3:33 PM ET
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Newly elected leader of the U.S. Episcopal Church Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori said on Monday she believed homosexuality was no sin and homosexuals were created by God to love people of the same gender.
Jefferts Schori, bishop of the Diocese of Nevada, was elected on Sunday as the first woman leader of the 2.3 million-member Episcopal Church. the U.S. branch of the worldwide Anglican Communion. She will formally take office later this year.
Interviewed on CNN, Jefferts Schori was asked if it was a sin to be homosexual.
"I don't believe so. I believe that God creates us with different gifts. Each one of us comes into this world with a different collection of things that challenge us and things that give us joy and allow us to bless the world around us," she said.
"Some people come into this world with affections ordered toward other people of the same gender and some people come into this world with affections directed at people of the other gender."
Jefferts Schori's election seemed certain to exacerbate splits within a Episcopal Church that is already deeply divided over homosexuality with several dioceses and parishes threatening to break away.
It could also widen divisions with other Anglican communities, including the Church of England, which do not allow women bishops.
In the worldwide Anglican church women are bishops only in Canada, the United States and New Zealand. The Robinson issue has been particularly criticized in Africa where the church has a growing membership and where homosexuality is often taboo.
Jefferts Schori, who was raised a Roman Catholic and graduated in marine biology with a doctorate specialization in squids and oysters, supported the consecration of Gene Robinson of New Hampshire, the first openly gay bishop in more than 450 years of Anglican history.
The 52-year-old bishop is married to Richard Schori, a retired theoretical mathematician. They have one daughter, Katharine Johanna, 24, a second lieutenant in the U.S. Air Force and a pilot like her mother.
Asked how she reconciled her position on homosexuality with specific passages in the Bible declaring sexual relations between men an abomination, Jefferts Schori said the Bible was written in a very different historical context by people asking different questions.
"The Bible has a great deal to teach us about how to live as human beings. The Bible does not have so much to teach us about what sorts of food to eat, what sorts of clothes to wear -- there are rules in the Bible about those that we don't observe today," she said.
"The Bible tells us about how to treat other human beings, and that's certainly the great message of Jesus -- to include the unincluded."
 
Last edited:
dzalphakilo said:
Thats the one I forgot!!!!

Naw, never feel guilty, just don't let your mom catch you.
Click to expand...
Did you catch that Seinfield episode where George's Mom caught him in the 'act'. :yum: :yum:
 
Doc said:
Did you catch that Seinfield episode where George's Mom caught him in the 'act'. :yum: :yum:
Click to expand...

That's a classic! I just love to see :poke: George Costanza:whip: miserable and uncomfortable.
His discomfort was one of the comic formulas that made Seinfeld work.:applause:
 
You can tell a thread is "petering out" when the conversation switches to cuffing.:eek: :pat: I guess we're done discussing Muslims for a while. :D
 
Cityboy said:
You can tell a thread is "petering out" when the conversation switches to cuffing.:eek: :pat: I guess we're done discussing Muslims for a while. :D
Click to expand...


It petered out? :tiphat:
 
What I found interesting is that those seven guys who got arrested in Florida were of african american decent. Not one news story that I read mentioned that, but from the pictures it's obvious to say the least.

Hmmm. Black muslims perhaps? They can be the worst kind.



Of course that is "tounge and cheek".

Per heriditary (sp?) vrs enviroment, your life sucks, you "can't get a break" in "society", so you come across some person or persons who can "show you the way" through "god" (no matter what religion) and you think you can change the world (does not matter of the costs in lives or destruction).

Or, your just plain wacko.

I tend to believe that a "true" God in any religion does not advocate killing no matter what the costs or reasons.

That being said, there are some pretty "screwed up" people in this world who give religion or any other beliefs a "bad name".

That being said (yet again) I am not sure of the beliefs of those men arrested in Florida.
 
No, no drugs.

Funny though when I first found out about viagra. Dated a "well to do" girl for a time. Her family and I went down to the Bahamas from Jersey on a "big boat" (owned by my girlfriends father). Got to a small island down there. Other couple consisted of an elderly man with a "trophy" wife (she was smokin, he had to be in his 70's). Well, get to this island, take the "dingy" (spelled wrong I'm sure) onto the island (deserted, no one there) and while on the island, this older guys falls over dead. Kid you not. Apparently he was taking viagra and found out most likely the cause of death.

You want to talk about a pain in the butt getting that dead guy back into America, wouldn't believe the paperwork and questions.

Overall trip was pretty interesting.
 
dzalphakilo said:
What I found interesting is that those seven guys who got arrested in Florida were of african american decent. Not one news story that I read mentioned that, but from the pictures it's obvious to say the least.

Hmmm. Black muslims perhaps? They can be the worst kind.



Of course that is "tounge and cheek".

Per heriditary (sp?) vrs enviroment, your life sucks, you "can't get a break" in "society", so you come across some person or persons who can "show you the way" through "god" (no matter what religion) and you think you can change the world (does not matter of the costs in lives or destruction).

Or, your just plain wacko.

I tend to believe that a "true" God in any religion does not advocate killing no matter what the costs or reasons.

That being said, there are some pretty "screwed up" people in this world who give religion or any other beliefs a "bad name".

That being said (yet again) I am not sure of the beliefs of those men arrested in Florida.
Click to expand...

When I saw they were black my first thought was they were really soliciting money for their own use and not to conduct terrorist acts.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top