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1975 Tucker 1544 - project and trips

We are back from the trip. Didn't get very far. Snow was deep, wet and heavy. Tucker was pulling two snowmobiles and two heavy skimmers totaling 3,000 lbs. One skimmer was 45 gallons of gasoline. I was following old snowmobile tracks and while one track was on the sled track, the other track would dart off the trail pulling the Tucker into a hard turn and nose down stuck. It was easy to back out and get lined up again, but I gave up after 20 kms.

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After turning the Tucker around and parking we continued on the rest of the way on snowmobile and came back 4 days later. The Tucker started up no problem at -6C, and after hooking up my snowmobile and the skimmer carrying a half barrel of gas, I headed back to the trucks.
Traveling on the trail I made 4 days ago on 4" fresh snow, the Tucker stayed in high gear and was burning about 15 lbs per hour less fuel than the trip out.
On Monday in wet heavy conditions the engine was running at 200F, burning 70 lbs per hour fuel, and the 727 was at 160F. In 20 kms the Tucker burned 100 liters. The exhaust pipe heat was extreme. Even the door sill frame was hot so I need to do some heat deflection and protection. I check the engine oil and it was still full, but the rad was down 2 liters.
All in all an extreme first test ride
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I am thinking electric lockers would help keep both tracks pulling when I encounter conditions like these where one track finds itself in high track load situations. With the open diff the Tucker is naturally going to pull to the heavy load side as the open spider transfers power to the unloaded track, and the Tucker makes a turn that can not be overcame with the steering ram.

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I had noticed one of the tracks was bumping, indicating a skip or slip of some sort.
Back in the shop I think I located the problem. The spacing of the grousers is about 5 3/4" and the space on this one track joint is about 9". So I'll shorten this joint up and it should cure the problem

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After I cut 3" out of the track belt and had it ready to go back on, I thought I might as well check out the idler wheels.
A couple were wobbly so I pulled them off.
I didn't find any of the nice thick seal bushings with the o-ring inside, just the thinner bushings that barely touch the seal lips.
The one wheel had what look like original seals in there. The seal was Trostel 228-140-75 and look like they had leather or something for the seal face. It was totally worn out, but the bearing looked good. The cone was grey and worn so I changed everything in there. For a test I used a couple of the bigger seal bushings (with O-ring) and put the seals in backwards. I'm not so sure about this idea now as the space allowed for the seal is narrow and the seal may fall out. The bushing has to go in before putting the wheel on the spindle as the seal spring get pushed out. So the seal goes in and then the spring goes in over top.

The bigger bushings slid on tight, which is nice. No more wobble in that wheel.

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The next idler wheel I took off because it was wobbly had bearing cones that were not tight anymore. The cones didn't fall out of the hub, but I could turn the one cone in place. So I clean the wheel up and installed new cones with red Locktite. I don't know if this will work to hold the cone in place in the hub or not. Comments on the Locktite idea?
 
Been snowing all day.
My grader is a year newer than my Tucker. Four wheel drive on steel chains, obital steering, much like the Tucker but heavier.
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YamaDooPolCat said:
The next idler wheel I took off because it was wobbly had bearing cones that were not tight anymore. The cones didn't fall out of the hub, but I could turn the one cone in place. So I clean the wheel up and installed new cones with red Locktite. I don't know if this will work to hold the cone in place in the hub or not. Comments on the Locktite idea?
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No experience with the locktite, but have center punched the surface that holds the race of a bearing before. Swells the surface and keeps the race from turning. Maybe both.
 
The green race retainer made by loctite is probably better than the red also if this does not work there is a race that is compatible with the same inner bearing that is slightly larger in OD. You would need to take the wheel and have the inside race serating area machined to the new race OD but it saves the wheel I had to do this with a couple of mine but it is better than buying a new wheel.
 
Thanks for that. It looks like the wheel journal surface where the race sits has been peened once already, and is sloppy again.
So I tried the Locktite.
Next time around I might have take the wheel to the machine shop.
I still have two spare wheels.
 
I going to put in new Teflon strips and Teflon rider "ice blocks" Does anyone know what height these should be at?
Should these be level with the Teflon strips?
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Mine just clear the cleats where the sprockets ride when the cleats are resting on the Teflon strip in the middle. One think I did find about mounting the center Teflon strip is make it come as close as you can within reason to the rear idler mine is about 1/2” from touching the rear wheel. The closer this gap the smoother the transition when te tucker is in motion. At first I left mine a bit shorter than the factory ones and the machine vibrated so bad you could hardly drive it because the cleat were hitting on the leading edge. We did my sons and moved them up as close as we could his is very smooth even better than the factory length. I remade mine the same as his and it is very smooth now compared to original. It still has a little of the clack when transitioning from wheel to slider but that is unavoidable with the Teflon strips. It just makes it a lot better even better than original factory
 
The material isn't Teflon, it's UHMW plastic (Ultra High Molecular Weight).

The ice breaker blocks are symmetric when new. You could remove the center bolt and turn them around so the area below the bolt is now above the bolt. That would extend their life appreciably.

Reading up a few posts, the "track drivers" are actually called drive sprockets. In addition to the suggested Dynamic Urethanes, I'm quite sure Fall Line in Reno, NV recovers them. They typically use a yellow colored urethane, whereas the factory drive sprockets are rubber. Later on Tucker changed from the pointed style to a blunt nose design to clear damper wheels, which replaced the UHMW track slides. Damper wheels are an upgrade, as they are much quieter. Fall Line may have an inventory of drive sprockets on hand so they could send you a replacement rather than waiting to have yours recovered. If you go that route, I would suggest confirming your desired tooth profile (pointed or blunt) so you get what you want.

Lastly, if when looking at the machine from straight ahead or straight behind and the tracks/carriers look splayed out, the steel "journals" on the axle are probably worn. You can use adhesive backed "bearing tape" and place that on the journals to take up the excessive clearance caused by the wear.
 
Thanks for the info and advice. It would be nice to upgrade to the idler wheels in place of the blocks, but I'd have to replace all the drive sprockets as all are the pointed version. Sounds a little pricey.
Being in Canada I have certain costly disadvantages, so I try to source my stuff in Canada. I understand there is an outfit in Leduc Alberta that will recover drive sprockets.
The disadvantages in Canada is exchanging the Canadian Peso to USA dollars, and try to ship via USPS only. When shipping via UPS they charge 30% of the value of the package as "brokerage" fees. The price of parts can really add up fast via UPS!
Another problem is I was sucked into getting the China virus shots, and I refuse to show proof of how stupid I was to any government official, Therefore I can not travel to the USA until this stupidity is over with.
This site is great though as some might not realize just how much can be hand made, fixed up like new, or inspired to tackle something, with the right info. So thanks for that.
 
Speaking of inspired, I tried to correct a bad track spacing problem that was causing the track to "pop" every revolution. The spacing at the track joint was 9" instead of the ~6" spacing of the rest of the cleats. I cut 3" out of the track but it simply is too tight now and will not fit anymore. There was no slack in the track adjuster when I started either.
I have a local fellow here that will sell me belting for this, and he has sold us belting before for our other groomers, so What spacing should I drill the belt at?
It looks like the belting was drilled at a variety of pitch from 5.5" to 6.5" with most spacing at 5.75" so what should the total belt length be, measuring from the pin center at the joiner"?
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We have a plastic supply shop that sells UHMW to local industry like pulp mills and sawmills and river boat builders. I'm lucky to live a good industrial town with good inventory. In cutting up the idler "ice" blocks I did notice that they seems nearly square.
I think this went pretty well, except no one had carriage bolts with the long shank. So i switched to bolts and a washer. I ground the bolt head down to help sink the retainer.
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YamaDooPolCat said:
Thanks for the info and advice. It would be nice to upgrade to the idler wheels in place of the blocks, but I'd have to replace all the drive sprockets as all are the pointed version. Sounds a little pricey.
Being in Canada I have certain costly disadvantages, so I try to source my stuff in Canada. I understand there is an outfit in Leduc Alberta that will recover drive sprockets.
The disadvantages in Canada is exchanging the Canadian Peso to USA dollars, and try to ship via USPS only. When shipping via UPS they charge 30% of the value of the package as "brokerage" fees. The price of parts can really add up fast via UPS!
Another problem is I was sucked into getting the China virus shots, and I refuse to show proof of how stupid I was to any government official, Therefore I can not travel to the USA until this stupidity is over with.
This site is great though as some might not realize just how much can be hand made, fixed up like new, or inspired to tackle something, with the right info. So thanks for that.
Click to expand...
YDPC,

I had no idea getting things shipped to Canada was so egregiously expensive. UPS charging 30% more as a "brokerage fee" is downright brutal.

My discussion of the damper wheels wasn't meant so much as encouragement to do that, but more as an explanation for the change to the drive sprocket tooth profile.

I DO think they are nicer than the UHMW track slides, and IMHO a machine with them should be valued higher than one without. But the cost to retrofit the damper wheel setup on a machine with UHMW track slides using all Tucker parts would be wallet busting. I haven't priced a new drive sprocket from Tucker, but I would think they'd be $400-$500 each. At $500, that would be $4K and you haven't bought the damper wheels, spindles, spindle tubes, castle nuts, or the spindle tube housings that get welded to the carriers.

The variance in your grouser spacing is concerning. As I'm certain you know, that will cause premature wear on your drive sprockets. Tucker has used different grouser spacing. I think the most common is 6 1/16". When I bought my first Tucker from SnoTrans I was given a spare belt and it has 5 7/8' grouser spacing, so I would assume that was another dimension Tucker used.

I recommend every Tucker owner call the factory with your serial number handy and ask for the order sheet. Tucker generously and cheerfully will look it up and email it to you. One of the data points on the order sheet is the grouser spacing called "Belt Pitch".
 
The back two tracks were not quite as easy. Used the Milwaukee on full strength for the cleat nuts, busted a few and stripped a few, but ready for reassembly now.
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