Old Story Means A Lot

[FrancSevin]

I have lived with in this state for 47 plus years. My wife has not I don't think. As far as she is concerned its resolved. I never have resolved it but lived with it. Always thought as went on and bringing up the question as to why sooner or later she would tell me why. She never has let go of the answer. In her mind I think time has went by that I never forced the answer so she got what she wanted.

I agree with this logi. Personal experience. However I also understand your ponderance of unanswered questions. And how they now press on your heart.

You accepted what happened and choose to move on for the family, for yourself, and for her. It's what good loving men do. But now you find reflection of that you cannot forget leaves you hurt and empty. Why cannot she be fully forthcoming? What's the harm? And the unanswered leaves you with a feeling that she has decided to keep those private moments to herself. they are precious moments with another, and you are a negative part of them. With the exception that they hurt you. I understand her feelings for privacy but, she has no right to them.

She is responsible for wrecking trust in your marriage. It is hell to live a life with that. And time does nothing to heal it.

When we marry, we give each other that gift of intimacy. It is a sacred gift given with the condition of exclusivity. Which is what makes it, marriage, so special a sharing. She gave that sacred gift away.

It was not hers to give away or ever take away from you. Those moments with another were yours. The hurt of her selfish decision will not go away and worse, she really never suffers for it as you have. Sadly, despite my own experiences, I have no magic words to ease the pain. And those who say forget it and move on never felt that pain. At least to the degree you have.

That you love you wife so much, so greatly, doesn't help.

This I know.

 

[Oldtimer661]

I agree with this logi. Personal experience. However I also understand your ponderance of unanswered questions. And how they now press on your heart.

You accepted what happened and choose to move on for the family, for yourself, and for her. It's what good loving men do. But now you find reflection of that you cannot forget leaves you hurt and empty. Why cannot she be fully forthcoming? What's the harm? And the unanswered leaves you with a feeling that she has decided to keep those private moments to herself. they are precious moments with another, and you are a negative part of them. With the exception that they hurt you. I understand her feelings for privacy but, she has no right to them.

She is responsible for wrecking trust in your marriage. It is hell to live a life with that. And time does nothing to heal it.

When we marry, we give each other that gift of intimacy. It is a sacred gift given with the condition of exclusivity. Which is what makes it, marriage, so special a sharing. She gave that sacred gift away.

It was not hers to give away or ever take away from you. Those moments with another were yours. The hurt of her selfish decision will not go away and worse, she really never suffers for it as you have. Sadly, despite my own experiences, I have no magic words to ease the pain. And those who say forget it and move on never felt that pain. At least to the degree you have.

That you love you wife so much, so greatly, doesn't help.

This I know.

I could not agree with you more. It most certainly must be the way its its going to be for me. I know nothing more I can ever do to find out. Your understand the issue exactly. Thank you for the kind words.

 

[Oldtimer661]

Sounds like questions you may have asked the guy back in the day. Thats pretty disrespectful coming to your home when you are not there and then burning rubber when you show up. Its really none of my business, but why would you put up with that when it was happening? Sounds like you didn't want to know at the time and now you have been dwelling on it for 47 years. Some of this is your fault in my opinion.

You are correct on one way and not so much in another. He would visit our home when I was gone a few times and take off as soon as I showed up with some kind of excuse where he had to be and stopped to SEE ME! At those days and times I had not yet learned of her lies and deceit yet. I did break a life long friendship with him and he has tried to connect many times over the years. With me saying no thanks every time he did I know he knows why but never acts like he does. His Kama has been really bad over the years not connected to us, but I did send $ to the funeral home when his adult daughter passed where she had not enough for funeral expenses! I'm still friends to this day with his brother! I really believed both him and my wife at first questions when rumors started even after that as they denied it......But I suppose part is my fault I should have beat it out of him and had the chance many times but chose not too.....He later married like two years later after I got out of the service and I was his best man at his wedding! I believed them until much later. You did bring up very logical thoughts for sure.

 

[FrancSevin]

I can relate. My best friend hit on my wife after our five years of marriage. She turned him down and I turned him away. Haven't spoken since. I had asked her to comfort him after his divorce. I think she thought I was pimping her to my best friend, but she handled it well. Shut him down.

Again, the worst form of human male is a guy who would sleep with another man's wife. The "best friend" is the worst of that evil. If he succeeds, you have a broken trust from two people you counted on for better.

IMHO You don't need honesty from him, and you would never get it. But her, yeah. But I must warn you, it likely won't cool the fire.

And, as others have warned, it might unravel everything. How badly you need to know may destroy what you have. Is knowing the truth, if that even happens, worth the risk is a fair question.

 

[power1]

If you have been able to accept it for this long why not just forget all about it and continue on with your life. I could understand it if it happened in the recent past but sort of feel sorry for your wife now. You let it happen in the beginning and have not done anything about it in the past. Why is it just now bothering you?

 

[FrancSevin]

If you have been able to accept it for this long why not just forget all about it and continue on with your life. I could understand it if it happened in the recent past but sort of feel sorry for your wife now. You let it happen in the beginning and have not done anything about it in the past. Why is it just now bothering you?

Because the pain of it is tattooed on his heart.
You are confusing acceptance with resolution.

There is no statute of limitations on such betrayal.

Further, the punishment does not go to the perp, but to the victim

 

[power1]

Because the pain of it is tattooed on his heart.
You are confusing acceptance with resolution.

There is no statute of limitations on such betrayal.

Further, the punishment does not go to the perp, but to the victim

This is just me talking about myself. If I didn't say or do something when it happened, I would not say anything years later down the road. He has said he was not going to do anything about now so why keep bringing it up. I can see where his wife is coming from.

 

[m1west]

You are correct on one way and not so much in another. He would visit our home when I was gone a few times and take off as soon as I showed up with some kind of excuse where he had to be and stopped to SEE ME! At those days and times I had not yet learned of her lies and deceit yet. I did break a life long friendship with him and he has tried to connect many times over the years. With me saying no thanks every time he did I know he knows why but never acts like he does. His Kama has been really bad over the years not connected to us, but I did send $ to the funeral home when his adult daughter passed where she had not enough for funeral expenses! I'm still friends to this day with his brother! I really believed both him and my wife at first questions when rumors started even after that as they denied it......But I suppose part is my fault I should have beat it out of him and had the chance many times but chose not too.....He later married like two years later after I got out of the service and I was his best man at his wedding! I believed them until much later. You did bring up very logical thoughts for sure.

A question, do you know if they ever dated before she was dating you? I have friend that I have known since I was around 8, this situation is not the same but similar. He started dating and married someone that I had previously dated and broke up with. Honestly I think she dated him trying to get to me,I don't know what his motivation was and didn't care. And there a few occasions where I could have taken a spin around the block for old time sake, but did not. 1- I'm not like that and 2- it would be like wearing his soiled underwear. They broke up a couple times but are still together to this day kinda. He was diagnosed with MS about 10 years ago and has deteriorated to where he is in a full time facility. They live in Michigan where I grew up, I am in Ca. where I gravitated to in the 80's. We still speak on the phone a few times a year. I have no relationship with her even a phone call.

 

[FrancSevin]

This is just me talking about myself. If I didn't say or do something when it happened, I would not say anything years later down the road. He has said he was not going to do anything about now so why keep bringing it up. I can see where his wife is coming from.

As we say in the sailing world,,,,; He is in irons. Because of the pain, it won't go down.

Despite denial, it is the first thing on his mind.

PERIOD.

Is this what you did when it happened to you? Is that why you keep asking the same questions?

He isn't you!

 

[power1]

As we say in the sailing world,,,,; He is in irons. Because of the pain, it won't go down.

Despite denial, it is the first thing on his mind.

PERIOD.

Is this what you did when it happened to you? Is that why you keep asking the same questions?

He isn't you!

Yes, it did happen to me. I am speaking from experience. If something is bothering, you to that extend it is time to do something to set your mind straight. If you are not going to get things straightened out in your mind it will continue to bother you. Why let something stick in your mind for all of those years? It is bound to have some effect on the relationship.
If you are going to worry about the rest of your life you need to do something to set your mind straight. If you can forgive and forget do that. If you cannot do that you need to stop punishing yourself and her.

 

[FrancSevin]

Yes, it did happen to me. I am speaking from experience. If something is bothering, you to that extend it is time to do something to set your mind straight. If you are not going to get things straightened out in your mind it will continue to bother you. Why let something stick in your mind for all of those years? It is bound to have some effect on the relationship.
If you are going to worry about the rest of your life you need to do something to set your mind straight. If you can forgive and forget do that. If you cannot do that you need to stop punishing yourself and her.

So you do get it. Not every one can cut it clean and short to put it behind them I don't know you well but I'll wager if you did not have all the facts, the truth of it, you would not have it behind you either.

He needs closure. All I'm saying is that may or may not let him put the incident behind him. After all, she drug it out of all these years unanswered. And what seemed to bother him is her story changes and the truth is pettifogged in her memory

 

[power1]

So you do get it. Not every one can cut it clean and short to put it behind them I don't know you well but I'll wager if you did not have all the facts, the truth of it, you would not have it behind you either.

He needs closure. All I'm saying is that may or may not let him put the incident behind him. After all, she drug it out of all these years unanswered. And what seemed to bother him is her story changes and the truth is pettifogged in her memory

But she is the one who has to give him closure and she thinks she did years ago and is not going to give anymore. He is stuck in a bad place but has already made up his mind. He just wants to make her suffer a little more.

 

[FrancSevin]

But she is the one who has to give him closure and she thinks she did years ago and is not going to give anymore. He is stuck in a bad place but has already made up his mind. He just wants to make her suffer a little more.

I'm getting dizzy with your logic,

and,

your insensitive insult to his motives.

Even if true, she deserves it.

It's not about forgiveness. He did that. It's about forgetting. She wants to forget something she did and make it go away. Something that he cannot forget. Her concerns should be for him, not herself.

End of the day,,,; She is at fault for her decision, of which he had no part.

As for patience and forgiveness, he has waited patiently for decades for her to come clean

Please, stop trying to transfer blame to him

 

[power1]

I'm getting dizzy with your logic,

and,

your insensitive insult to his motives.

Even if true, she deserves it.

It's not about forgiveness. He did that. It's about forgetting. She wants to forget something she did and make it go away. Something that he cannot forget. Her concerns should be for him, not herself.

End of the day,,,; She is at fault for her decision, of which he had no part.

As for patience and forgiveness, he has waited patiently for decades for her to come clean

Please, stop trying to transfer blame to him

And what is he going to do if she does come clean?

 

[FrancSevin]

And what is he going to do if she does come clean?

Obviously, you didn't read my post about that.

Unknown actually. Further, it should not be part of the equation, the question, or the decision. After 46 years he has pondered and struggled with that dilemma long enough.

What Oldtimer is suffering from is called PTSD. You may have heard of it.

Dr Weiss PTSD - Search Videos

www.bing.com

Her silence on the subject isn't helping.

 

[Oldtimer661]

A question, do you know if they ever dated before she was dating you? I have friend that I have known since I was around 8, this situation is not the same but similar. He started dating and married someone that I had previously dated and broke up with. Honestly I think she dated him trying to get to me,I don't know what his motivation was and didn't care. And there a few occasions where I could have taken a spin around the block for old time sake, but did not. 1- I'm not like that and 2- it would be like wearing his soiled underwear. They broke up a couple times but are still together to this day kinda. He was diagnosed with MS about 10 years ago and has deteriorated to where he is in a full time facility. They live in Michigan where I grew up, I am in Ca. where I gravitated to in the 80's. We still speak on the phone a few times a year. I have no relationship with her even a phone call.

When my wife and I was dating this guy and me was running around quite a bit he knew her well. She and I had some issues once where I never dated her for a few weeks or so. I think he may have tried to see her back then behind my back,but she denied that and still does. Funny thing was when I was not with her one night on a date with aother before marriage or any thing I had just left his house with another date and wife now just happend to show up and raise hell with my other date.....always figured my friend told her I just left and what direction,but wife has always denied it.

 

[Oldtimer661]

If you have been able to accept it for this long why not just forget all about it and continue on with your life. I could understand it if it happened in the recent past but sort of feel sorry for your wife now. You let it happen in the beginning and have not done anything about it in the past. Why is it just now bothering you?

Well You say I let it happen. No way I let it happen, I was in Army boot camp! At the beginning he was my best friend, best man at my wedding with my very best friend my wife! I never believed the rumors when it started especially when he denied by laughing it off and her to deny they were out as well. Why destroy TWO trusted friendship based on rumor? I did see tall tell signs of it before hand I gave not thoughts about until later when I found out it was true and she admitted the going part after so long of denying it! I then thought beat his ass to a pulp? Then after more thought I knew I could stop it if she chose to be with him since he was not yet married . So I figured to steer clear of him right away and did and wait and see what she did and see if she would leave me the dear John note I'm leaving. I was prepared and ready for her to do so and always have been ever since that day she admitted it but never told it all. (Had she told all and admitted up front I may have had different thoughts)

So I figured as time went on she would tell me all or leave and I loved her and still do very much and it would be her call at this point with out ant force what so ever. I wanted her to make the call and if she would have left one time or made threats to I would have ended it and never no matter how much pain I was in take her back but she never did. Last,it would have never stopped him....only she could do that and I knew it.

 

[Oldtimer661]

Obviously, you didn't read my post about that.

Unknown actually. Further, it should not be part of the equation, the question, or the decision. After 46 years he has pondered and struggled with that dilemma long enough.

What Oldtimer is suffering from is called PTSD. You may have heard of it.

Dr Weiss PTSD - Search Videos

www.bing.com

Her silence on the subject isn't helping.

What I would do if she would own up to all of it and tell me like it is how long and why? I would have 100 tons of bricks off my back and know if I caused it or not and would know the satisfaction that I did or did not cause it to happen. I'm prepared to take the responsibility of doing her wrong in any way she thought I may have if that may be why and would still try and explain why she may have felt that way no matter how ugly it could be. I would be very relieved in my mind of many years. Nothing would change for her at all, I would be the same faithful loving ,best friend she has always had. I told her before no matter why and how many or how ugly I can handle it I promise. She still denies.

 

[Oldtimer661]

And what is he going to do if she does come clean?

I responded to your question below to Francsevins both at same time.....

 

[Oldtimer661]

And what is he going to do if she does come clean?

And what is he going to do if she does come clean?

But she is the one who has to give him closure and she thinks she did years ago and is not going to give anymore. He is stuck in a bad place but has already made up his mind. He just wants to make her suffer a little more.

She never has give me any Closure what so ever! I do not want or never wanted her to suffer at all or I would have just left her with our new born, I never did that nor would I! She had to do that. The only closure she even considered was a forced lie for answer when she was nailed and confronted with no where to run by me with absolute proof she was out with him. only once! It was not just once and there was more to it.

 

[power1]

Obviously, you didn't read my post about that.

Unknown actually. Further, it should not be part of the equation, the question, or the decision. After 46 years he has pondered and struggled with that dilemma long enough.

What Oldtimer is suffering from is called PTSD. You may have heard of it.

Dr Weiss PTSD - Search Videos

www.bing.com

Her silence on the subject isn't helping.

Hears of it, I may have it. After listening to him for 46 years and she is still around?

 

[power1]

She never has give me any Closure what so ever! I do not want or never wanted her to suffer at all or I would have just left her with our new born, I never did that nor would I! She had to do that. The only closure she even considered was a forced lie for answer when she was nailed and confronted with no where to run by me with absolute proof she was out with him. only once! It was not just once and there was more to it.

Just for your own good and hers also please forget about something that happened so many years ago. It is over and done with and you have lived a life of worry. Let it go and feel the weight slip off your back. You will feel so much better and she will also.

 

[Oldtimer661]

Just for your own good and hers also please forget about something that happened so many years ago. It is over and done with and you have lived a life of worry. Let it go and feel the weight slip off your back. You will feel so much better and she will also.

To each their own. That may be a great solution for you. That may be a great thing easy for you to do. Its not for me. Thanks for your input good and bad. Take care Power1.

 

[Oldtimer661]

Hears of it, I may have it. After listening to him for 46 years and she is still around?

She has not listened to me for 46 years! I have lived with ghost for 46 years not her! She has been well taken care of with all marriage agreements from my end honored and kept she can't say that! I do not harp her about it all the time. But she knows and I know its there.

 

[m1west]

When my wife and I was dating this guy and me was running around quite a bit he knew her well. She and I had some issues once where I never dated her for a few weeks or so. I think he may have tried to see her back then behind my back,but she denied that and still does. Funny thing was when I was not with her one night on a date with aother before marriage or any thing I had just left his house with another date and wife now just happend to show up and raise hell with my other date.....always figured my friend told her I just left and what direction,but wife has always denied it.

I think you are correct on the friend, he reminds me of the friend I just told you about. Lots of friends that know us both said to me later in life that Rick was always jealous of me and had undermined me a couple times but wouldn't elaborate on it.

 

[FrancSevin]

What I would do if she would own up to all of it and tell me like it is how long and why? I would have 100 tons of bricks off my back and know if I caused it or not and would know the satisfaction that I did or did not cause it to happen. I'm prepared to take the responsibility of doing her wrong in any way she thought I may have if that may be why and would still try and explain why she may have felt that way no matter how ugly it could be. I would be very relieved in my mind of many years. Nothing would change for her at all, I would be the same faithful loving ,best friend she has always had. I told her before no matter why and how many or how ugly I can handle it I promise. She still denies.

I understand this to the tenth degree. I relate to every bit of what you are saying, about how you are feeling andhow exposure would give you a path to closure, and it is true.

You are obviously committed to this woman. Having lived the same situation, I get it 100%

 

[FrancSevin]

I think you are correct on the friend, he reminds me of the friend I just told you about. Lots of friends that know us both said to me later in life that Rick was always jealous of me and had undermined me a couple times but wouldn't elaborate on it.

Best friends make the betrayal twice as painful. If the wife goes for it, you have two people you trusted putting you aside for their pleasure. Two betrayals.

My best friend all through grade school, Highschool and College did it to me. Despite my move to Chicago, we still went trout fishing quite frequently. The SOB hit on my wife after his divorce. She was being kind to have dinner with him whilst visiting her parents in St Louis.

She shut him down hard.

BTW, SOB called me up a few weeks later to set up a fishing trip. I just hung up on him.
My trout fishing flyrods have hung in the garage unused for 50 years now. Prolly time to wet those lines aye?

 

[Oldtimer661]

I understand this to the tenth degree. I relate to every bit of what you are saying, about how you are feeling andhow exposure would give you a path to closure, and it is true.

You are obviously committed to this woman. Having lived the same situation, I get it 100%

Thank you. Your feeling exactly what I feel for sure. Some time she will tell me I think,but its going to be when is ready if ever. I do love her very much and always will. Just would make the rest of my time left on this earth settled in my mind to know what the answer is of how long and why?

 

[Oldtimer661]

I think you are correct on the friend, he reminds me of the friend I just told you about. Lots of friends that know us both said to me later in life that Rick was always jealous of me and had undermined me a couple times but wouldn't elaborate on it.

Yes I agree on that for sure. I know about him thru his brother to this day. He did and does follow my life on what I have done in material things to the letter even up to the same kind of dog we have according to his brother who is always around him and vists us from year to year and always has for life! His brother is not friend he was one time but was always a fair friend for many years. I think it goes much deeper than she ever told me.

 

[Oldtimer661]

Best friends make the betrayal twice as painful. If the wife goes for it, you have two people you trusted putting you aside for their pleasure. Two betrayals.

My best friend all through grade school, Highschool and College did it to me. Despite my move to Chicago, we still went trout fishing quite frequently. The SOB hit on my wife after his divorce. She was being kind to have dinner with him whilst visiting her parents in St Louis.

She shut him down hard.

BTW, SOB called me up a few weeks later to set up a fishing trip. I just hung up on him.
My trout fishing flyrods have hung in the garage unused for 50 years now. Prolly time to wet those lines aye?

I think you had a real ass for a friend just like I did. I was truly like you HIS best friend but he chucked it! Thing is this friend of mine went thru a divorce and remarried again for number 2 wife! He done his best to stay connected to me after his divorce for sure, but I let him know with no violence or threats of any kind to move on and he finally did after he married again. Even still stopped by our house once or two times after he remarried! I was very cold towards him and HIS NEW WIFE SAT IN THE CAR!!! Wonder what his new wife must of herd or perhaps knew not even want to come in like he did and meet my wife? LOL. Even over years at different gatherings they would be at some of them she never came around my wife EVER but did speak to me a few times! His 2nd wife long before she ever married or dated my old best friend went out several times with a well know friend of mine and that friend was the one who made my wife actually admit to being out years before when he was present at jam session party at my old best friends house with my wife, that started all of it! He told me his new wife before they was married or knew each other used to follow him around and he done all he could ditch her and finally introduced him to his now 2nd wife one night at a concert where he was playing!