My new 1970's Snow Trac project.

[Sno-Surfer]

Well spent most of the weekend getting to know the Snow trac and scratching my head. Here's what I've come up with so far.
I've been reading a lot on here, read almost all the manuals posted. I've decided that my snouty nose is something factory made. It's missing the bumper but the chopped off nose for whatever reason sure appears to be a factory mod. I'm also thinking mine is about mid 70's. There are no signs of the usual id plate to the right of the door, only one on the left but nothing is stamped on it, so just guessing on the year. The power disc brakes, I don't know about those but the ebrake unit also appears to be factory and a bit different than the norm.
My other observation, I have a project on my hands! But it's ok, I can handle it. Lot's of good stuff on this, just needs some love and fine tuning.

I took Dons advice and just slid the motor forward so that I could look in at the throw out etc to see what's making the grinding noise. Throw out bearing is fine, the flywheel seems to have enough clearance and so does the ring gear. I don't know what is making the grinding noise but without taking the pressure plate off, it looks fine. I am wondering if it's rust build up or ??. It' has been in the rain and I'm wondering if I ought to just use the clutch as is for a bit and see if it quiets down. I actually think it might be already the little I've drivin it in and out of the shed. It's all newish, throw out bearing, pressure plate and clutch.
The one problem I have is that my exhaust goes all the way to the back and it's all one piece, even welded to the muffler. No way to take it off unless I also remove the whole muffler. I'm going to take it to the muffler guy and have him put a coupling in there so I can take the motor out if needed. I spent a lot of time trying just disconnecting all the clamps so that I could slide the motor forward just enought to see in the bellhousing. It's back together now.
I now have a trailer too so I'll bring it in to get those adjuster nuts taken off. I need a better wrench than what I have. Those gears are really eating the tires. I will need to put at least one big new tire on.

How about grease? I read in the manual there are about 4 different types of grease used. What do you all use for what parts? I feel the need to grease everything. I hope I can keep it to one or two types of grease.

Also, it looks pretty tough to adjust the valves on these. Do you guys adjust them once a year or ?? And can you do it with the motor in the Snow Trac? Just looks real hard to access.

More questions to come..... Thanks again for all the help.

 

[redsqwrl]

If all the clutch stuff looks newish, make sure your input shaft inthe trans isn't the noisy bugger.. the shaft is short looking but is acutally quite long.
Should only be noisy in neutral, clutch in or out

In gear it(the clutch disc and shaft) is sitting still so if the noise is still there clutch in, in gear, it is not the input bearing,

Do you have free play in the clutch pedal?

did you look in the cooling fan yet? this could have ingested a (almost anything) to cause some noise?

Mike

 

[Sno-Surfer]

I put it all back together and it's the same. It only makes noise when the clutch is pushed in. When I first push it in after it's started, it's quiet for about 10 seconds. Then it starts to make noise. Then I push the clutch in again and it'll start making noise right away. Just the first time I push the clutch in it's quiet for a bit. It's almost a squealing sound, fairly loud. The clutch still seems to work fine...
I'll double check the play in the clutch but I think it's ok. I have played with moving the clutch in and out slowly to see if it quiets down and it doesn't seem to help until it disengages.
I have a feeling I'm going to have to take it all the way out.

Anyone know what size the gear tensioner nuts are? Seems like my 1 1/4 is just tiny bit small.

 

[Sno-Surfer]

ps, the cooling fan seems fine. It seems to be clutch related imho.

 

[Dirtyjoe]

It's the gland nut pilot bearing. Thay used to have kind of a felt seal,probably rusty....

 

[redsqwrl]

I am with Dirty Joe.

Throw out bearing or Pilot bearing. FWIW it will go a long time with that ratteling.

Not that I am a procrastinator, I chose to prioritize my work.

 

[Sno-Surfer]

Pilot bearing just may be it. Thanks for that. I may just run if for a while and focus on the other items, like getting the chain tensioners to loosen up and the electrical.
I also need to change the steering wheel. The PO put in a new steering box and somehow the steering shaft got shortened. I think I can fix this problem by getting a new steering wheel that has a 3 or 4 in dish to it. I'm hoping it's that easy.

My large tires are foam filled and you can see in one of the photos I posted that the drive gear is eating the tire. I know that I'll have to replace the tire soon. Do I have to take the track off to get the wheel off? Once I have it off I am guessing I can take it to Les Schwab and have them remount a new one and foam fill it..? I have only two extra tires and understand that they are hard to find.

Any suggestions on the type(s) of grease to use on the zirk fittings?

Thank you!! I'm itching to get this in some snow.

 

[Snowtrac Nome]

i use chevron red ep and have had no problems in the cold weather also it resiste imulsifacation from water pretty good texas refining corperation also makes a good grease

 

[Sno-Surfer]

Well after 2 weeks of spraying Kroil on the chain tensioners...I got them loose! Thought I was about ready for the snow once I could adjust those but....
Drivers side adjusts just fine. The passenger side will loosen just fine but when it comes to putting tension on it, it won't go past a certain point and it's not far enough. For some reason it just won't tighten the chain enough and it still skips on the passenger side.
But the other problem I have is that the drive gear is still too close to the front (big) wheel. I'm not sure if the drive gears may be wrong or if mine has a big wheel conversion that wasn't done properly (the big wheel looks to be a factory set up to my newby eye).
What could cause the tensioner to go only so far? It's not the threads, it's acting like it's just not rotating the drive gear axle far enough and it's jambing tight. Drove it a little to see it that would loosen things up but no luck.
I posted a picture of the drive gear and wheel earlier in this thread.
Thought I had it yesterday when I got all the nuts loose. But now I'm not so sure.

 

[JimVT]

only a metric chain will work properly . unless your sprokets have been changed.
post a picture of the axle on that wheel. if it was added it could be forward to far. With good chain and sprokets it may work .

 

[Snowtrac Nome]

here is your problem look behind teh sprokets you will see a pivot point on the bottom and one on top going to the adjuster rod .the bottom eyes are prone to corroding up yes there is 2 also another one behind the chain sproket.a good penetrating oil for alunimum works good some thing like corrosion -x or mouse milk mixed with some heat should work also. also check your track adjustment you may neeed to drop some tension on the track

 

[Sno-Surfer]

These may not help much but all I have handy. I'll get better pics of the front axle for the big wheel this evening. Also the first pic is upside down but it's the view I get when I'm laying under it...so I didn't turn it around.
The metric chain idea I'm not sure what to think of. The drivers side doesn't skip at all that I can tell, it's only the passenger side and the passenger side is way too loose, that I know. Any way of telling if it's metric?

I'll look into lubing up the axles per Dons suggestion. They don't look bad at all just from the outside and the drivers side is real easy to adjust. I did loosen the track tension in the rear to see if it made any difference and it didn't.
I can sure loosen the tension easy enough and I'd like to think that it means the axles are not frozen but I really have no idea what could be preventing the tensioner to extend further out to tighten the chain and get the drive sproket away from the front (big) wheel. I think if I could get it to tighten more and get some tension on the chain that I will barely clear the tire, I mean barely. It seems like there should be more room then that to me.
It's a two band track. I could see the big wheel with the three band track as the drive gear is spaced wider than the one I have. That means the gears would stradle the tire more because it's wider. But I don't think that'll work with my two bander.

Do you need to seperate the track to get the big front wheel off?

Thanks a lot for the suggestions. It really helps and I'm making progress. Just a bit discouraged by the skipping and the wheel clearance. Not sure what the fix is.

 

[Snowtrac Nome]

i would look at brake caliper mounting it may impeade the the axle from moving forward also when moving the axle watch the shaft it's attached to the shaft isn't supposed to move just the little ears lastly if you have the wwong chain it won't slip once tightened but the sprokets will not last long been there and done that.

 

[Sno-Surfer]

Ok, I have a few photos to post up of the front mount, tensioner and front pivot area.
First one is of the tensioner mount. does it look like a conversion? Maybe my Snow trac has a big wheel conversion and that's why it's not working very well clearance wise with the two band front sproket.

next is a pulled back version of the same shot. I am wondering if that empty mount is for shocks but not sure where they would hook up to?

this shot is the rear and looks like a cut off shock mount.

this is a shot looking forward of the bottom of the front big wheel axle. Conversion or ??

this next one is the front pivot for the chain and sproket adjustment. Is it the area that the small bolt goes through that can sieze up?

Anyone has any insight to lend on any of these shots, please let me know. You can also see the tire damage in a couple of them from the sproket running into the tire.
Passenger side chain is still real loose, top and bottom and skips quite a bit when turning. Doesn't seem to like to turn left as well as right, pretty sure because of the skipping. Even if I get the tensioner to tension, it'll be close to having enough clearance or not. But seems like something is binding because I can't get the tensioner bolt any tighter and I know it shoud adjust with relative ease.

 

[Snowtrac Nome]

what you have is a nice conversion that shock mount in the front was for the front boggie set the workmanship looks nice you will have to move them track sprokets further forward to clear the tire.had agood conversation to day if you need help feel free to call next thing is you need to re install the shock mounts the guide damage we talked about was likely caused bt the boggie assemblys flipping, the shocks prime reason for being there is to keep the boggies from flipping over on rough terrain good luck

 

[SnowTrac Hunter]

May be an optical illusion, but it looks like the inner mount is longer than the outer which could throw things off when it pivots. Look at the second to last picture.

 

[redsqwrl]

May be an optical illusion, but it looks like the inner mount is longer than the outer which could throw things off when it pivots. Look at the second to last picture.

I saw that too, Ruler time.

Did you ever look to see if the motor is secure in its mounts? That adjuster bolt is way out you might be at the end of the travel and the motor and trans could be slightly forward on that side.

thus a combination problem.

Mike

 

[Snowtrac Nome]

Ok, I have a few photos to post up of the front mount, tensioner and front pivot area.
First one is of the tensioner mount. does it look like a conversion? Maybe my Snow trac has a big wheel conversion and that's why it's not working very well clearance wise with the two band front sproket.

next is a pulled back version of the same shot. I am wondering if that empty mount is for shocks but not sure where they would hook up to?

this shot is the rear and looks like a cut off shock mount.

this is a shot looking forward of the bottom of the front big wheel axle. Conversion or ??

this next one is the front pivot for the chain and sproket adjustment. Is it the area that the small bolt goes through that can sieze up?

Anyone has any insight to lend on any of these shots, please let me know. You can also see the tire damage in a couple of them from the sproket running into the tire.
Passenger side chain is still real loose, top and bottom and skips quite a bit when turning. Doesn't seem to like to turn left as well as right, pretty sure because of the skipping. Even if I get the tensioner to tension, it'll be close to having enough clearance or not. But seems like something is binding because I can't get the tensioner bolt any tighter and I know it shoud adjust with relative ease.

that last pic is th point where they bind up you apear to have a reproduction steel axle tube ,member krc built some like that for his. i wouldn,t expect those to be that tight but if they are steel get the oxy acceyteline out

 

[300 H and H]

Don,

I think your on to some thing here....The axle housing does appear to be steel, not aluminum. steel + water = Rust. Could be the issue, rather than a poorly located big wheel. BTW the tube the big wheel swing arm pivot is welded to in the second to last picture appears to be bent/bowed? The swing pivot shaft is not perpendicular to the ground is it??

On another note, is the removable side panels for setting the valves blocked by the conversion? I remember Snowsurfer asking about how to set the valve lash....

Regards, Kirk

 

[SnowTrac Hunter]

you will definitely want to get your shock mounts back on or you may end up having problems. Bogie wheels will flip over and catch on the guides. It is a pain when you are out in the field.

 

[Sno-Surfer]

Thanks for the replies and thanks again Don for chatting on the phone. It all helps ALOT!
I see from the photo that it looks like the big wheel mount could be a bit off. I'll measure it. However, if it's a bit off I still think the problem is that I need to get the gear farther away from the tire.
All the motor mounts and trans mounts look good. I did seperate the engine and moved it forward a bit to look into the bellhousing. But all the motor and trans alignment seemed good to me, but what do I know. I did contemplate that idea for a while when I was under it.
To me it looks like I have enough room on the tensioner as far as threads go but I just can't get it to move forward past a certain point. The nut just tightens up and it acts like it just won't rotate the gear axle any more. But the chain is still loose and I can't find any tension anywhere that would prevent it from adjusting more.
I'll spray down that pivot point for a few days and see if it helps. I'll also get a few more pics up of some other areas later.
The drivers side seems fine, it adjusts both ways with ease and I think I can get it far enough forward to clear the big front wheel.
Thanks for all the suggestions. I'll get this thing in good running order soon, but maybe not as soon as I want!

 

[SnowTrac Hunter]

How about using a size smaller wheel or is it set up with a true big wheel. Seems like you could downsize and still run fine. Have you measured both sides to see if they mounted the one differently?

 

[SnowTrac Hunter]

Are your threads damaged at that point? Maybe try taking a file to the bad thread. They make thread chasing files that would clean it up.

 

[Sno-Surfer]

I am sure the threads are good because I've been able to loosen it to the point where the lock nut would be and I've removed the lock nut with out any problem ( once I got it unstuck that is).
I did think of a smaller front wheel. Just not sure what's available and I'll still have the loose chain issue. Was even thinking about converting back to the small bogie wheels.
But before I do anything that drastic, I need to figure out why it won't move further forward.
The nut just really tightens to the brace, support mount and the rod seems to be under tension.
I'll be messing around with it today some more... thanks for the suggestions Joe.

 

[Sno-Surfer]

and Ps, I'll look for the removable side covers to get to the valves.They sound just fine now but I'd still like to have access with out pulling the motor.

 

[Snowtrac Nome]

the conversion to a big wheel is all snow trac stuff the big wheel models use the same spring and swing arm as the boggie models but the springs set at a different angle my guess is the swing arm looks cocked because it needs new bushings. the reason i opted not to do this with mine was the limited travel you still get from that system the torsion axles i used work much better as for the axle not moving i think bakes and sprokets may need to come off to see what is happening as i remember there is a little window with a cover behind the axle tube may be what is binding it as for the valv adjustment pannels i never use them just do it from the top.

 

[Sno-Surfer]

Well Don was right and even mentioned it early on that the adjuster pivots are prone to freezing up. I doused it with Kroil last night and this morning and this eve was able to adjust it!! Woo hoo! I was surprised cause I was cranking on that nut the other night and it just wouldn't budge.Thanks Don.
So I got it adjusted and the gear clears the tire just enough now, still too close I think but at least it's not hitting it.
So I took it for a drive. It still skips when turning left.
I wonder if it could be the drive sproket on the track side? I haven't had anyone look at it from the outside while it's in motion.
I'm just trying to narrow it down the what has already been mentioned, wrong chaing gear combo.
That sounds to me like an expensive pain in the butt.
But on the bright side, I'm stoked to have all the parts moving!
I have a few pictures I'll post of my grousers and the gears when I get a little more time. They show some wear but I don't know if it's the skipping I feel or the chain??

Also wonder why it's only on one side now that they are both adjusted better. Could be different chains on each side I guess.



And again to my untrained eye, I looked real hard at the chain and it sure looks like it fits well all the way around. But surely I don't really know anything about it.
I think it's the skipping that hinders the left turn the most. Feels like something going to break. But those things are loud and you hear and feel everything!

 

[300 H and H]

Snow surfer,

A correct chain will measure ( got a dial caliper?) 1.6" across the outside of two rollers.

The rollers themselves measure 0.622" each.

Cloase as I can eye ball it, the center of the pins are 0.95" apart. My gears shows no wear and are rusty/grungy on the tips of the teeth. Only the roller cup is shiney from contact with the chain. I think this is as it should be....

Regards, Kirk

 

[JimVT]

maybe someone lives near you that can stop in or you can visit them.
what is your location?

 

[Sno-Surfer]

Thanks for measurements Kirk, I do have a caliper and will measure mine.
Jim, I'm in Hood River, OR.
Anyone in this area that knows about these?
No doubt that would be extremely helpful.
I'm getting there, I think. At least I can adjust things now. Just need to figure out the skipping.
I'll also need to make or buy if they are available, the cooling horn to bring the cool air in through the hood vents. I haven't found any measurements for one yet. But of course I won't need it until I can take it out but I sure am itching to take a trial run in it!