My new 1970's Snow Trac project.

[Sno-Surfer]

After finding out about these Snow tracs just over a month ago, I for some strange reason, felt compelled to get one. I've never heard of them and don't know anyone that has one. I just want to use it for fun. I plan to fix it up and make sure it's reliable and take it to the Mt Hood or Mt Adams area. I live about 45 minutes from each. I do have some VW knowledge and have two busses with the same drive train as these. I can keep those running and figured that would help with these.

I was looking all over for one and then three days ago one popped up on Craigslist only 5 hours from where I live. It was at the top of Steven Pass and was used for the last 15 or so years to go 1/4 mile to access a cabin. The guy I bought it from, bought it from his neighbor about 6 years ago. He didn't know the year or vin #. I just bought it as is. It has a rebuilt engine and it runs great. The clutch is grinding and I'm sure I'll have to pull the engine soon to fix that. Hope it's not much harder than my bus. Also the chain tensioners are frozen and the passenger side neads tightening real bad as it skips and the gear has worn a groove in the front tire because it's pulled back so far.

Can you fabricate a new tensioner and cut the old one off? They didn't look too complex. The PO said, don't even try, it's frozen, they've used heat and messed it up more." Looks ok on the side I need to tighten, the other side has a piece cut out of the bolt. But he said they are both totally frozen. Sure, I'll try anyway but thinking ahead. I have no welding skills.

I have two front tires and two boggie tires and one boggie hub as spares. Tracks look ok to my untrained eye. He said he rebuilt the boggie wheels (hubs) and foam filled the tires. It has disc brakes in the front. The hood has been reshaped a bit and looks more like a snout.

It's hot wired and I need to find a diagram if there's one available. It needs a new switch as the PO lost the key. Once the switch gets fixed I think the rest of the wiring needs a little help here and there but seems that most everything works.
I have barely driven it. Just a couple loops around the parking lot and on the trailer and up my driveway. I need to fix the chain tension before I really drive it. Clutch too, don't think it's the throwout bearing, sounds more grinding.

More to come, I'll try and post some pics. It might take a day to get the pictures sorted out.

This site has been great. I've read a lot on here and that's about the extent of my knowledge. Now I have one in my driveway. I'll have a lot of questions and would welcome any information or opinions, parts sources, or anything else anyone wants to offer. Thanks in advance!!

 

[300 H and H]

Serial number is on a metal tag on the right hand side of the door...it's was rivietied on, so if itis gone there should be small holes there..

Big wheel three band track? If it is a 70's model it will have these.

You've got some work to do, it sounds like. But it will be worth the effort and the time. Money isn't the object here....

Many of the ST parts that wear can be bought or made up by a machine shop. Some obviously cannot be, like the drive sprockets inside the tracks, but they are being cast new in North Pole Ak for instance.

They are a relatively simple machine, much more so than a new Hydro static drive cat. When an ST4 is in good mechanical shape they are dependable, and have earned the reputation, and a fallowing of folks who keep them running.

And, they made a match box toy of one! How iconic is that?

Regards, Kirk

 

[Sno-Surfer]

Yeah, I know I need some pics up. They are coming soon....!
It's a two band machine with the big wheel in front. I see a plate to the left of the door but seems to be painted over and I don't see any number stampings. I'll take another look though and see if I can see any remains of numbers.
Pics are coming.....

 

[Snowtrac Nome]

the threaded portion can be cut out of the adjusters and replaced with a nut welded at the end and and all thread i had one of my adjusters break one time, also the ears at the axle piviots can freeze up and it will take heat and some brake fluid to free them up .if the chain is skipping i will bet the iso chain has been replaced with an sae chain it will line up fine at the top as it rolls around the big sproket it dosn't drop all the way into the teeth.

 

[teledawg]

I would try to avoid cutting the adjuster rod assembly at all costs. I have had good luck splitting the nuts off by drilling a series of 1/8" holes longitudinally as close together as possible into all the nut faces that you can access. Don't dill them too deep or the drill bit will nick the threads on the rod. If you can get enough holes drilled in the nut it can be cracked off with a cold chisel or a big nut cracker. Also add a little heat and turning the nut with a wrench will help make it loose and crack off.


When you get the nut off, remove the adjuster rod assembly and remove the other frozen nut the same way on the work bench. Then clean the threads by chasing them with a die. When it comes time to put it back together, use lots of anti-seize on the threads AND stainless steel nuts so it will never freeze up in the future.

 

[Snowtrac Nome]

teladawg makes a good point mine had to come off as it was broken mine broke because the rod was bent and i used a bfh to streighten it out. there is no sence in cutting it out unless you have to you also might just try heating on flat till it's glowing and try working the nut a little bit. there isn't much room to work if you can get it to move dot 3 brakefluid is your best buddy for penetrating oil to break up the rust. once removed the rod can be cleaned up with a die all the snow trac fasteners aer sae and the vw parts are metric

 

[Sno-Surfer]

Thank you for the feed back, even with out photos yet.
I will try not to cut it then. I think I've found a place locally that can help me with this and it might be better at this point to bring it to them. The one side has a nut that's been cut but it's still holding tight. The other side looks fine as far as condition so it would be nice to save it. I've been spraying Kroil on it and will also try brake fluid. I'm going out tonight to take a closer look at things. All this info helps since this is the first time I've seen one in the flesh.
Sorry about lack of pictures, they are coming. I sent doc an email with some and I'll have a bit more time to figure out why mine aren't loading soon.
But first, I must go out and spend some time getting to know this thing....
There will be a lot of photos though once I get it figured out. Promise....

 

[Sno-Surfer]

http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/picture.php?albumid=246&pictureid=1458

Is this the vin?

 

[Sno-Surfer]

Try this again... is this the vin#?

 

[Sno-Surfer]

engine

 

[Sno-Surfer]

Ok, now we're getting the hang of it. I'll post more later. Anything I should take a picture of, let me know. Thanks!

 

[Sno-Surfer]

Also I'll have to pull the motor and see what's grinding in the clutch. Is it pretty easy to pull it? I've pulled one out of my bus several times. Looks like it come out the top?

 

[300 H and H]

Snowsufer,

Yup the engine comes out the top....

I don't see the factory tag on the rear of the machine, It maybe be long gone?...ST5 117 in the pic is a part number, not the serial number...

While it's no virgin, it looks workable, for sure. The brakes maybe why the nose is not like factory either. Many ST's have front end damage caused by a failed brake system and steep hills. They simply run into stuff when they have no brakes. Perhaps this is why it has the dics brakes installed (pictures please).

Get it fixed up right and your gong to have some real fun with that machine....

Welcome the the wonderfull world of the 40+ yar old snow cat. May it be worth the effort and the $$....

Regards, Kirk

 

[Snowtrac Nome]

that looks like one of those McClarity riggs built in iraland i believe i thaught those wern't built till the late 80' also as a note i have seen a lot of brittish riggs with a 2 band track and big wheels.the motor takes me about 45 minuts to pull

 

[Sno-Surfer]

I'll get pics of the brakes etc. It's a little fugly with the nose the way it is. I can't quite figure out what happened to it. From inside the engine compartment it looks like it hasn't been changed but I know the hood is chopped. The PO said he thought they used it to run cable and that's what the mount is on each side of the hood, the four, square, verticle things.
It also doesn't have the fresh air collector for the dog house shroud. I did read somewhere where someone had fabricated their own. Are they available anywhere?
Great to hear the motor sounds not much harder than my bus to pull. I look foward to pulling it out and cleaning things up and taking a closer look at things.
I also need a trailer. Can you get away with a single axle 3000# rated trailer? Or do you need a double axle with the elect brakes?
More questions and pictures to come.

This has been sitting outside for years and just used occasionally. Sorta maintained in some areas but needs a bit of going through. So far I think I can deal with what's needed, with a little help from you guys.
Sure appreciate the help.

 

[muleman]

At least it starts, runs, and moves. That makes it a candidate for a good machine to fix up. The fact you are familiar with VW motors is even better. Plenty of knowledge on this forum to draw from.

 

[Snowtrac Nome]

my guess is washington will require brakes on the trailer because with trailer and st you will be over that 3k mark the reality is a small tandem axle 4place type snowmachine trailer will pull it just fine. the air scoop ncan be fabricated quite easy and is a must to keep it cool jimvt is in your neck of the wooods you could take a mesurement off of his. if your wanted to restore the front end i have one for parts might beworth the shipping to get teh stuff down to you i would have to work fast as we don't have snow yet the first storm will burry it and nake parts impossable to get to till spring

 

[Snowtrac Nome]

Try this again... is this the vin#?

looking at this picture your sprokets are not snow trac parts rather something custom

 

[Sno-Surfer]

Interesting. I'll get some better pics of the sprokets and disk brakes. I just might be interested in those spare parts. The snouty look is hard to embrace. I do feel like I should dig into this just a bit before I worry too much about the cosmetics. but I would really like to return the nose to it's former appealing downward curve once I make sure it's trail worthy.
I'll load up some more pics this eve.
This is my only source of info, not like I can ask my neighbor about it.
I hope I don't bug you all too much but I will have a lot of questions. I'll keep posting any progress etc as it happens. I want to get this thing on the trail asap.
Thanks for the trailer info too. That's what I figured. I'm now on the hunt for a trailer.

 

[Sno-Surfer]

Ok, more pictures. Shots of the disk brake set up. Is this a conversions or stock? What about those big gears, are they Snow trac or some sort of aftermarket gear?
Also you'll see why I need to deal with the chain tensioners. The drive gear is eating into the tire.
I'm about ready to pull the motor to look at the clutch. I just need to rig something up to pull it out from above.
Any insights or info that anyone sees from the pictures would be helpful. Thanks!!

 

[Snowtrac Nome]

nothing on those brakes are origional the sprokets look like a lyndon pattern reproduction track sproket the chain sproket also looks different all your snow ttrac parts will have a part number cast in to it some thing lke st-25the brakes are all custom even that vac boost master cylinder also the transmission tunnel cover looks different from any thing i have seen the thing will need some work but looks like a good project with some cool modds i'm guessing that te big wheel was a mod not well thaught out or the drive chains are too short your nuts should come loose mu=ine looked a lot worse and with some heat and brake fluid came free.

 

[redsqwrl]

Ditto on the nuts, heat and a six point wrench.

The tracks look like they go straight down off the drive sprockets. unique

I see gerling brakes from a mid to early 80's VW GTI. Rotors are mostly the same vintage.

I don't recognize the booster but might suggest VW bus'ish

How fast did that move out at, sprockets looks to be smaller than normal perhaps enhanced ground speed?

I have been thinking that the motor was *rebuilt* that perhaps like my motor rebuild (which meant swapping a bigger motor) that maybe your flywheel is self clearancing itself in the bell houseing there are a couple of post showing the areas that need to be ground to fit the larger flywheels. maybe a little time will quiet the clutch?

Nice score.

Mike

 

[teledawg]

that looks like one of those McClarity riggs built in iraland i believe i thaught those wern't built till the late 80' also as a note i have seen a lot of brittish riggs with a 2 band track and big wheels.the motor takes me about 45 minuts to pull

Looks very similar to this Alex McLarty rig:

http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=9254

 

[Sno-Surfer]

Well interesting, I looked at that Mclarity rig and that nose sure looks alot like mine. Looking at mine, it does look like it's factory, the nose mod that is. It just seems to be done well and consistent with how the rest of it is put together. Paint matches and rivets all the same etc. No signs of someone putting a wrecked unit back together. The trans cover also looks to me to be something done out of the factory. I knew it was different than most that I've seen and that's why I put the picture up. It just doesn't seem homemade to me, but what do I know.
I'll take a closer look at the large sprokets and see if I can see a number stamped on them.
I don't know how fast it will go but I'd say it's on the slower side of things. I have only had it in 3rd gear and I might have been going 10mph. I've really yet to test it because of the way the gears are eating the tires.

On the clutch, I wonder if the bellhousing needs to be grinded. The PO said it used to sound a lot worse. If that's all it is and you think it might eventually grind it self to freedom on it's own, them maybe I'll wait on pulling the motor. The way it sounds, I think that's a real possibility. It does sound ugly though.
On the Mclarity rig I also notice that my seat is exactly the same and the one sunvisor. Sure wish I could tell when this was made. Mine also has that extended rack that goes all the way to the very front of the fenders. Again sort of ugly but it's what I have...That part is for sure a mod for some specific use in the field.
I'm going out there right now to take a look at things again, spray some stuff on those tensioners etc.
Thanks for the observations, all very helpful and appreciated.
I wish this rig had that sweet curve in the hood but otherwise I do think it's a good start to work from. The motor runs really great. It's a single port and I'm just guessing it's a 1600 but looks pretty fresh and clean under the tin and so does the transmission.
Thanks for the help!!

PS, my wiring is all there but a mess. I'll need to pick up a lot of fuses and spend some time figuring it all out. ....Not enough hours in the day now. I want to get this thing going!

 

[JimVT]

To pull the engine make a 3 way sling . hook one on each intake and the other is in a bolt hole under the air intake horn. lift it up. You need to remove the air horn.
reading this will help in learning
It's a SUPRISE! Pt 1 - Page 3 - Forums Forums - Off Topic Forum FUN3

 

[Snowtrac Nome]

i screwed an eye into mine and just hook to that i can lift it out my self that way two guys can lift it out with out a hoist what is this noise the to berings can make some noise is the noise only there when the clutch is depressed or is it always there

 

[Sno-Surfer]

The noise from the clutch is only there when I push the clutch in. It's not what I'd call the typical whine of a bad throw out bearing, the po also said that he replaced the throw out bearing when the rebuild was installed.
I'm looking for that thread that talks about the clearance issues....I think I will still pull it for good measure soon.
What size are the nuts on the adjusters? It seems that they are a size larger than my biggest wrench! I think I need to get a 6 point wrench for this....

 

[Snowtrac Nome]

if it's just the bearing its simple you just have to slide the engine forward to change it did mine last year in less than an hour i don't think there are clearance issues i have seeen new berings go bad in short order i have also seen them damaged when folks dont know how to change the sleave on them next question is yours using a 6 volt starter or 12 volt starter you may also have the wrong fly wheel on it the 180 mm flywheels will bolt on to a 1600 but don't fit the step right .

 

[Sno-Surfer]

Thanks Don, real good to know that I could just slide the engine forward. I am just not set up yet to pull it from the top and that would make it easier. I'll get set up to pull from the top but if I can just slide if forward and bit to see in there, that would help.
I would guess that if it was the flywheel that it would grind all the time and not just when I push the clutch in. Does that sound right to you?
I am pretty sure I have a 12 volt starter. I will double check but the PO just put a new starter in and found out it was just a bad connection so he also left the old one in the machine for me as a spare. 90% certain that it's 12 volt.
Thanks for the help.

 

[Snowtrac Nome]

mine has a special fly wheel that is cut down to accept the 180 mm starter ring gear this way i didn't have to auger out the bell housing the new tans had that mod all ready so some day i may do a 12v conversion