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Muslims

A

Av8r3400

Gone Flyin'
My other thread brought out an interesting topic that I think could use it's own place.

What are you feelings toward the Muslim faith?

I believe that the lack of any outcry or denouncement by the "main stream" muslim leaders of terrorism or terrorist tactics says it all. The koran teaches that all people who are not muslim are infidels and must either convert to islam or die. Because muslims believe that the koran is the actual words of god dictated to muhammad, there can be no interpretation or deviation. They are stuck in the dark ages philosophically and cannot, by definition, change.

I believe that the main-stream muslims are the key to breaking the islmofacist revolution which is spreading like a cancer across this planet. Until there is an outcry against terrorism there will be no end to it.

One more scary thought. The spread of islam in prisons among the most disgusting criminal element in our society, is feeding the islamofacists with highly motivated shock-troops to do their bidding with no remorse or conscience.

Look at the recient arrests in Canada. They were all muslim, and most (all?) were Canadian citizens prepared to commit acts of terrorism against thier own people. Converts are the most fundimental and blind followers of any religion.

The PC has to stop. It is time to call a spade a spade. (In my opinion.)
 
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I don't know if you will get much mileage out of this thread with this docile bunch. Somebody might disagree and get upset. Can't have that. :whistle: :rolleyes: Afterall, we are an "international" forum, and all this Muslim discussion might "offend" someone. :pat:

Most here know how I feel about Islam and its convert or die philosophy. What baffles me are those who insist on defending it, apologizing for it, and blaming the victims of Islamic violence for getting themselves murdered.

Why is it so difficult for some to see the truth?
 
Cityboy said:
I don't know if you will get much mileage out of this thread with this docile bunch. Somebody might disagree and get upset. Can't have that. :whistle: :rolleyes: Afterall, we are an "international" forum, and all this Muslim discussion might "offend" someone. :pat:
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OBSERVATIONS from a moderator:
  • FIRST this thread is in the Debate Forum, it will be given the leeway that the Forum allows because it is in this area of the forum.
  • SECOND being 'international' has nothing to do with anything in terms of a rational debate.
  • THIRD as long as the debate remains civil it will be allowed. The key is to realize that there can be 2 or more sides to any debate. We are all allowed to agree and to disagree but moderators step in when civility is breached and/or when we get complaints and others question civility. I'd suggest that as long as the discussion remaims a rational viable discussion there will be no reason for a moderator to even become involved.
 
I think the problem is that the "IslamoFascist" guys are the big bullies. They have no problem killing fellow muslims if they say anything that goes against their radical views.

The moderate muslims are just as scared (or perhaps even more scared) of the islamofascist guys as the rest of us.

IMO, it is similar to the school yard bully scenario. Islamofascists are the bully and everyone else just wants them to go away but are scared to confront them.

The USA is the only entity in the world that is willing to stand up to these thugs. Even large populations of people (Left and Right) in the US are hesitant to stand up to these guys and would prefer to not get involved.

I think the moderate muslims of the world are doing themselves a disservice by not publicly addressing this but then again they are scared too. If they don't speak out then they will suffer guilt by association and may endure more scorn from the rest of the world in addition to the scorn they get from the islamofascists.

It all sucks. I'm thankful that the US is taking a stand. The message is getting delivered in Afghanistan and Iraq and those that don't see the value in the Iraq war are short sighted.

PB
 
B_Skurka said:
OBSERVATIONS from a moderator:
  • FIRST this thread is in the Debate Forum, it will be given the leeway that the Forum allows because it is in this area of the forum.
  • SECOND being 'international' has nothing to do with anything in terms of a rational debate.
  • THIRD as long as the debate remains civil it will be allowed. The key is to realize that there can be 2 or more sides to any debate. We are all allowed to agree and to disagree but moderators step in when civility is breached and/or when we get complaints and others question civility. I'd suggest that as long as the discussion remaims a rational viable discussion there will be no reason for a moderator to even become involved.
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Well said Bob.
THANKS!
Doc
 
[FONT=&quot]Just some food for thought, Australians closest neighbour Indonesia has 180 million Muslims. I would not like to rattle their chain to much they are to close to home for that.
[/FONT]
 
Vin, if I recall correctly, Australia has taken a far firmer stance against Islamic extremists than the US has taken. Do I also recall that many Australian politicians have taken on the issue domestically and either outlawed Shia law within your nation or have proposed to outlaw it?

I think it is fair to say that the US it too weak kneed domestically to take that type of stand.
 
Bob
Our Goverment does not mix word on the subject.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200508/s1445181.htm

Minister tells Muslims: accept Aussie values or 'clear off'

Federal Education Minister Dr Brendan Nelson says he will be meeting the Australian Federation of Islamic Councils (AFIC) to develop ways to teach so-called Australian values to Muslim school children.
But Dr Nelson says those who do not accept and teach Australian values should "clear off".
One of the recommendations at Prime Minister John Howard's terrorism summit yesterday was for Islamic schools to be encouraged to denounce extremism and teach about Australian traditions and culture.
The Minister says it is important for all groups to be integrated into the Australian community, whatever their religion.
"If you want to be an Australian, if you want to raise your children in Australia, we fully expect those children to be taught and to accept Australian values and beliefs," he said.
"We want them to understand our history and our culture, the extent to which we believe in mateship and giving another person a fair go, and basically if people don't want to support and accept and adopt and teach Australian values then, they should clear off."
But a prominent Muslim educator says Australian values and traditions are already being taught in Islamic schools.
The deputy president of the Australian Council of Islamic Education in Schools, Silma Ihran, says the Minister should meet with school leaders to get a clear understanding of what is actually being taught.
"We have a document in all of our schools and we've all been receiving, through associations such as Independent Schools Association, professional development on how to actively incorporate the state of Australian values that are in this document, called Australian Values for Schools, as part of our teaching process," he said.
Meanwhile, Muslim educators are calling on Mr Howard to include their representatives in future summits with the Islamic community.
Ms Ihran, who is also the principal of the Nooral Houda Islamic College in Strathfield in Sydney, says Mr Howard must consider the wider Muslim community and its youth before making decisions about the teachings of Islamic schools.
"The Federation of Islamic Councils is an excellent body, but it doesn't represent the majority of the community and it itself isn't aware of some of these programs which are really the ones that the Government should be working with, to make sure that their concerns over the issues of values and citizenship are really addressed properly," she said.
Howard

Prime Minister John Howard says the Government is willing to go inside mosques, prayer halls and Islamic schools to ensure they are not preaching terrorism.
"I mean I have no desire and nor is it the Government's intention to interfere in anyway with the freedom or practice of religion," he said.
"But we have a right to know whether there is, within any section of the Islamic community, a preaching of the virtues of terrorism."

​
 
daedong said:
WRONG or False take your pick of which ever.
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OK, I forgot about you Aussies. You're doing good too. Is Indonesia really a threat? If you pulled out all the plugs you could cream them in a second.

We need to fight wars to put people in their place. No PC B.S. Kick the $hit out of them.

Just my opinion though.
 
PBinWA said:
If you pulled out all the plugs you could cream them in a second.

Just my opinion though.
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Who are you kidding our 20 mil against all them plus the rest of the muslim world
 
daedong said:
Who are you kidding our 20 mil against all them plus the rest of the muslim world
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Some how I think Australia has some good friends that might be able to collectively trump the rest of the muslim world.

I think you are fighting a war of your worst fears while I am fighting a war of my best dreams. Two different perspectives on life I suppose.

PB
 
daedong said:
Who are you kidding our 20 mil against all them plus the rest of the muslim world
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I'll probably get "nuked"for even suggesting this, but...1 properly armed missle can equalize that situation very quickly. I say it is time to quit pussyfooting around with these people. You will never be able to make them happy unless you convert or die.

If we were to impliment Austrailia's domestic stance here in the U.S. along with effective military force when needed, these fanatics would be neutered post haste. You cannot negotiate with these people; history has proven this time after time. They must be shown that their murderous philosophy will not be tolerated in our countries.
 
Originally Posted by B_Skurka
OBSERVATIONS from a moderator:
  • FIRST this thread is in the Debate Forum, it will be given the leeway that the Forum allows because it is in this area of the forum.
  • SECOND being 'international' has nothing to do with anything in terms of a rational debate.
  • THIRD as long as the debate remains civil it will be allowed. The key is to realize that there can be 2 or more sides to any debate. We are all allowed to agree and to disagree but moderators step in when civility is breached and/or when we get complaints and others question civility. I'd suggest that as long as the discussion remaims a rational viable discussion there will be no reason for a moderator to even become involved.
Click to expand...


Doc said:
Well said Bob.
THANKS!
Doc
Click to expand...

Doc/Bob,

My comments; which inspired Bob's post and your applause; were not directed at the moderators. I was referring to members who cannot handle controversy of any kind and complain about it, even though they can excercise their right not to participate. I was simply voicing yet another yet another of my controversial opinions. :D :thumb: :tiphat:
 
Most think of Muslim violence in non-Western nations, but here is a Western style nation that has been reeling from Muslim extreemism for a long time.

I know Muslims, Christrians, Jews, Agnostics and Athiests and those I know can all live together. I suppose I really don't understand religious wars at all. Perhaps I am just naive.
news_logo.gif


Rebel leader 'killed' in Chechnya


Chechen separatist rebel leader Abdul-Khalim Saydullayev has been killed in a police operation, Russian and pro-Moscow Chechen sources say.

He died in a gun battle in his home town, Argun, along with a Russian federal agent and a policeman, Russia's intelligence service says. No comment from the rebels was immediately available.

Mr Saydullayev was appointed in 2005 to replace Aslan Maskhadov after the rebel president died in a Russian attack. Chechen Prime Minister Ramzan Kadyrov welcomed the news as "a severe blow" to the separatists.

"The terrorists have been virtually beheaded... and they are never going to recover from it," he told Russian news agencies.

Gun battle
Argun's chief of police, Ali Tagirov, told Russian media the body had been identified by people who knew Mr Saydullayev and there was "no doubt" about his identity.

Nikolai Patrushev, head of Russia's FSB intelligence agency, confirmed that an FSB agent and a local policeman had also been killed.

A gun battle erupted at 1100 (0700 GMT) on Saturday when police launched their operation, he said.

According to one Russian media report, Mr Saydullayev had been discovered in a house with three or four other rebels. The NTV report added that another Chechen militant was also killed while two escaped.

Though he was appointed president, he was a relatively obscure figure, correspondents say. He used to make religious programmes for the separatists' TV station and speeches he released as leader are couched in Islamist language. He was much less prominent than veteran separatist commander Shamil Basayev who appeared on a rebel website last week in what was billed as a new video.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/europe/5089942.stm​
 
For myself, the muslims are not the problem, but those dang money hungry Jews. They control the U.S economy, give intellegence from our country to "thier" country, and before you know it, we will all be under thier control. I'm not talking about some Jews, but ALL of them. Heck, we should just round them up and put them in some kind of camp.
 
nixon said:
Your post is "tongue and cheek " , Right ?
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What if it isn't? So what, it's what I believe to be the truth, and darn it, I'm going to speak my mind so everyone can hear me, no matter how idiotic it may sound.

Of course it is "tounge and cheek", but is it any different that the "muslim" post?

I can only imagine what an American muslim may think if they were to read some of these post. Couldn't help but think of the persecution of the Jewish people in Germany, which to some extent, some of these threads are starting to sound like (as far to the persecution of Muslims).

It is idiotic to stereotype (sp?) all muslims together by religion.

How about those Baptists out west who protest against our fallen solldiers? Got to hate them Baptist!

Americans, got to love us, we know everything about every other culture on the face of the earth, and when we're overseas "sightseeing" we all think people should speak our language and if they don't, if we talk loud and slow enough, we think they will understand us.
 
Darn !! If I was not PC, I'd say It "Sucks to be You " .
But thankfully , I am . But , I just don't get Your viewpoint.
 
What is it that makes us intolerant of differences?

Is this discussion really much different than the arguements made during the 1940's when Blacks and Women made 40% less than White Men working on the assembly lines? The real issue there was fear and ignorance of someone different.

Why do so many non-Muslims believe that all Muslims are the enemy?
 
nixon said:
Darn !! "Sucks to be You "
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Actually, it's GREAT to be me! Just got back from Fayettnam where I got a "steal" on a CRAPLOAD (more than you could ever think of) of premium U.S ammo! As I used to say WOoooHOooooo!!!!

Apologies, off the subject, but it is a great day!
 
Av8r3400 said:
there can be no interpretation or deviation. They are stuck in the dark ages philosophically and cannot, by definition, change. (In my opinion.)
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I don't know of any Christian's that could be described that way:whistle:
 
dzalphakilo said:
I can only imagine what an American muslim may think if they were to read some of these post. Couldn't help but think of the persecution of the Jewish people in Germany, which to some extent, some of these threads are starting to sound like (as far to the persecution of Muslims).
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I would buy this argument if we were discussing any other religion except Islam. No Muslims are being persecuted here, but no Muslim is standing up and denouncing Islamic murder in the name of their god. How someone can defend this religion and its participants is amazing to me.

dzalphakilo said:
How about those Baptists out west who protest against our fallen solldiers? Got to hate them Baptist!
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Last I heard, those Baptists, although misguided I believe; are not calling for gihad and the murder of non-Baptists. Muslims, on the other hand are calling for non-muslim conversion or death to non-Muslims. Big difference in protests and terrorism.

dzalphakilo said:
Americans, got to love us, we know everything about every other culture on the face of the earth, and when we're overseas "sightseeing" we all think people should speak our language and if they don't, if we talk loud and slow enough, we think they will understand us.
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You're joking, right? We don't even require immigrants to speak our language here, much less expect them to speak English over there. Who are these people you are talking about? I'd like to meet one of them.
 
B_Skurka said:
What is it that makes us intolerant of differences?

Is this discussion really much different than the arguements made during the 1940's when Blacks and Women made 40% less than White Men working on the assembly lines? The real issue there was fear and ignorance of someone different.

Why do so many non-Muslims believe that all Muslims are the enemy?
Click to expand...

Are you arguing that this is the case here? That we just don't understand that there is actually a good reason these Muslims belive in conversion or death? Should we tolertate those who wish to kill us?
 
dzalphakilo said:
How about those Baptists out west who protest against our fallen solldiers? Got to hate them Baptist!
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I don't think you can call them "Baptists". They are on the lunatic fringe and all Baptists I know have come out and strongly denounced that group of lunatics.
 
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