Thiokol Imp 1402 OpenTop # 129 by Nikson

[undy]

hitting the crank with a hammer using a 2x4

Try this with two hammers (and yeah, I know you're not supposed to hit two hammers together, so wear safety glasses!).

Using a couple guys with pry-bars, put some light pressure against the back of the flywheel. Lay a big ball-peen hammer on the shaft, peen end against the shaft. Then using a bigger hammer, whack the ball end of the ball-peen hammer sharply, a couple times. If that doesn't do it, heat it up as above, and then use this trick.

 

[Nikson]

Try this with two hammers (and yeah, I know you're not supposed to hit two hammers together, so wear safety glasses!).

Using a couple guys with pry-bars, put some light pressure against the back of the flywheel. Lay a big ball-peen hammer on the shaft, peen end against the shaft. Then using a bigger hammer, whack the ball end of the ball-peen hammer sharply, a couple times. If that doesn't do it, heat it up as above, and then use this trick.

Will keep that one in mind...

I emailed one of the guys on East Coast (Wisconsin specialist) - he says it was a bad idea to use heat, since now it will be harder to get off...

I guess we'll have to see what will come out of this...

 

[redsqwrl]

Beating heating and freezing are all fun but deformed and bent crankshafts are not.
puller method:
If Balance is a concern for you, drill four holes on the axis of the factory balance marks.
Flywheel mass:
I am no harmonic specialist but I have balanced lots of tires and crankshafts. Top RPM on a WI is quite low. (Mass is quite high)

Just throwing $.02 at it.
Keep up the great work.
Mike

 

[Nikson]

Re: Replacement Parts

Got some parts in the mail today...

Fuel Pump (new one on the right)

Wire Set

Ignition Coil

Distributor Cap

Rotor

and some new rubber... for the front idlers

figured it was a good idea to refresh the inside of the idler rims as well...

Cleaned up the main wheels with wire brush and painted them with a different kind of bed liner... (its actually matte once dries up...)

P.S.

Am I going too much into detail on this thing, or you guys like seeing/reading all this???

 

[Nikson]

Beating heating and freezing are all fun but deformed and bent crankshafts are not.
puller method:
If Balance is a concern for you, drill four holes on the axis of the factory balance marks.
Flywheel mass:
I am no harmonic specialist but I have balanced lots of tires and crankshafts. Top RPM on a WI is quite low. (Mass is quite high)

Just throwing $.02 at it.
Keep up the great work.
Mike

Thanks Mike,

Been thinking sort of the same thing... RPMs at about 2800 max

May be drill & tap closer to the center, this will prevent it from dis-balancing on the outer edges...

 

[Laurentian]

Beating heating and freezing are all fun but deformed and bent crankshafts are not.
puller method:
If Balance is a concern for you, drill four holes on the axis of the factory balance marks.
Flywheel mass:
I am no harmonic specialist but I have balanced lots of tires and crankshafts. Top RPM on a WI is quite low. (Mass is quite high)

Just throwing $.02 at it.
Keep up the great work.
Mike

Another thought is that once the holes are drilled and tapped, and hopefuly found helpful to removal of flywheel they can be plugged / locked in again with threadlocker and riveting. X2 on slow rev, not a top fuel here.

 

[Laurentian]

Re: Replacement Parts

Got some parts in the mail today...

P.S.

Am I going too much into detail on this thing, or you guys like seeing/reading all this???

We love this stuff !
I see you found a nice work surface ( the flat bed of your rig, handy ! )

 

[Nikson]

Re: Replacement Parts

We love this stuff !
I see you found a nice work surface ( the flat bed of your rig, handy ! )

Oh yeah, rear bed comes in handy for this or that... I figured I would finish the rest of the stuff before I start working on the rear cab modification.

 

[muleman]

Keep the pics coming. Looks like you are going through things pretty thoroughly. Don't delay or the snow will be here before you know it.

 

[Nikson]

Re: Wisconsin Engine repair & parts guy

Anyway,

Finally got a hold of Tim, he is a person with long history of working on Wisconsin engines, so if anyone needs any parts or help with work on one, he would be a good guy to have in your phone book.

[FONT=&quot]Tim[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Rock Creek Consulting[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]4429 Brumbaugh Rd.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]New Enterprise, Pa. 16664[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]814-766-3675[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]wisconsinengines@embarqmail.com[/FONT]

So, Tim suggests that I take a 6-12 inch center punch w/visegrips & an 8lb sludge hammer... put the engine stationary on the floor, stand in front of the flywheel with the crankshaft sticking out between my legs...

Give it a good smack with the hammer, getting the flywheel to come right off...

I guess stay tuned...

p.s. reason to remove the flywheel is to see the state of the stator, since it is a 10AMP, and I would like to upgrade to 30AMP, so I could run all necessary electrics on the cat (fans, lights, winch, etc)...

 

[Nikson]

Keep the pics coming. Looks like you are going through things pretty thoroughly. Don't delay or the snow will be here before you know it.

To much of everyone's surprise, even my own, I'm going at a pretty good rate... Oregon Cascades got another 2 months to go before first snow most likely... so I believe I'll make it...

 

[Nikson]

Flywheel is off after I smacked it hard enough with an 8lb sledge hammer...

- believe it or not, I was like that for an hour...

now have to figure out if my flywheel is one that will work with a 30AMP stater, and if its not, I will have to replace the flywheel as well...

I think it would be a good idea to go with a 30A stator, right?

 

[anthonydoldd]

Hey Nikson

Looks like things are progressing nicely!! I am not familiar with the 1402 is it a single speed machine with only forward and reverse?

 

[Nikson]

Hey Nikson

Looks like things are progressing nicely!! I am not familiar with the 1402 is it a single speed machine with only forward and reverse?

Thanks... slowly but surely... hoping to get her done by snowfall...

This cat has a transfer case in the rear end, not sure exactly whats it called, but its a simple setup...

Engine with Clutch drive (hand lever), and then just driveshaft to the C-4 rearend, that has 1,2,3,4 & Reverse...

so technically its a 4 speed, but I guess you cant shift on the fly...

p.s. if I like what it come out to be able to do, as far as crawling through snowpack, i'll throw in a watercooled engine with auto in it next year.

 

[anthonydoldd]

Ok so it does have the OC-4 clark rear end. My 1404 runs the same transaxle. I was curious as to what they did for range... I am hoping to beef mine up a little as I hear that they dont like large power to much. Keep us posted its nice to see the work that others accomplish on their machines!!

 

[Nikson]

Ok so it does have the OC-4 clark rear end. My 1404 runs the same transaxle. I was curious as to what they did for range... I am hoping to beef mine up a little as I hear that they dont like large power to much. Keep us posted its nice to see the work that others accomplish on their machines!!

Oh, I keep updates coming as they go...

As far as I know (correct me if I am wrong) - it is a C-4, since its OC-12, lots people confuse on the letters there... (not a biggie, but someone will correct ya eventually as I've seen it happen before)...

I guess its really a trial-n-error on the rear end, since lots of people talk about busting their C-4s, while not much actual evidence on that. Not sure whats the weakest link in them, but we'll find out.

This is one of the main reasons why I am trying to keep all stock with same engine and drivetrain, since if it was made to handle that, it should hold off just fine., if not, than I guess will have to find a newer model with a OC-12 in it.

Would love to convert to a hydro-steer if I could, that would be great...

seen any write ups on that?

 

[anthonydoldd]

I HAVE SEEN A FEW COMPANIES THAT REBUILD THE TRANSAXLE REFER TO THEM AS AN OC-4 THERE ARE BOTH OC-4 AND OC-12 REARENDS. MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THE OC-4 HAS THE 4 SPEEDS AND THE OC 12 DOES NOT. I AM NOT POSITIVE ON THIS BUT I HAVE NEVER HEARD IT REFERED TO AS A C-4. I BELIEVE THE C-4 THAT YOU ARE REFERING TO WOULD BE THE ACTUAL FORD CO. AUTO TRANS THAT WAS USED ON THE DMC 1450.

 

[Snowtrac Nome]

oc refers to oliver clark c woud be clark just like the differential used in the m29 weasel it was a 2 speed clark

 

[anthonydoldd]

SO IS IT AN OC-4 OR A C-4? iN THE 1404 AND 1402 I MEAN? I BELIEVE THERE IS BOTH A C4 AND AND OC4 TRANSMISSION.

 

[Blackfoot Tucker]

A C-4 is a Ford Motor Company produced three speed automatic transmission used in automotive and light truck applications. It is the lighter duty transmission of that era. The heavier duty model is the C-6.

An OC4 is a rear differential. "OC" stands for Oliver & Clark. I don't know that they were ever one company. I do know that Oliver made farm tractors and Clark made transmissions and other products, including forklifts. Perhaps the OC differential products were a consortium of the two firms?

A quick Google search shows Oliver was bought by White Motor Corporation and Clark was acquired by Ingersoll Rand.

[As a side note, I find the evolution of the farm tractor industry to be very interesting. At one point there were literally hundreds of tractor manufacturers and their individual histories are fascinating. Some, like Deere, went on to great success, whereas other went bust...]

 

[Nikson]

A C-4 is a Ford Motor Company produced three speed automatic transmission used in automotive and light truck applications. It is the lighter duty transmission of that era. The heavier duty model is the C-6.

An OC4 is a rear differential. "OC" stands for Oliver & Clark. I don't know that they were ever one company. I do know that Oliver made farm tractors and Clark made transmissions and other products, including forklifts. Perhaps the OC differential products were a consortium of the two firms?

A quick Google search shows Oliver was bought by White Motor Corporation and Clark was acquired by Ingersoll Rand.

[As a side note, I find the evolution of the farm tractor industry to be very interesting. At one point there were literally hundreds of tractor manufacturers and their individual histories are fascinating. Some, like Deere, went on to great success, whereas other went bust...]

Very true indeed... History of many is quiet interesting.

As far as rear ends go, Ive been corrected too many times that its a C4 n not a oc4.

Either way it seems to me like a sturdy n excellent transaxle. Ive opened mine up and cleaning it up slowly... Lots of gunky gelly metal stuff on the bottom, guessing its just brake dust.

Brake bands are about 1/4 inch thick, anyone guesses that its good to go, those need to be replaced (updated)????

I would think that i wouldnt put more than 200-300 miles on the cat in the winter...

 

[Nikson]

Re: various...

So a little update...

got the shifter & the links painted... and installed...

now, not wanting to go into "detailing" it, it turned out that I did anyways, so I guess when all done, this resto is pretty much complete except the frame, which will be partially painted...

little inspection showed that front pivot mount on the rear end got busted, and will be needing some welding...

 

[Nikson]

Re: various parts

miscellaneous engine updates...

 

[Nikson]

Re: wheels / tires

Since the plan was to leave any engine & suspension major upgrades for next year, went ahead and just replaced the tires, and resurfaced the wheels.

 

[Nikson]

Re: rear end

rear end removal was not too difficult, yet complicated due to one of the bolt/nuts combos being just stubborn where even an impact gun couldn't get them loose with WD40...

view from the rear, toward the front mounting point of the axle

front pivot bracket with the piece of the frame...

well, at least the axle is out now... time to get her apart and cleaned up...

slave brake cylinders are missing the rubber boot (unless they didnt have them at all), but the crud in the inside of the cylinder walls made it hard for them to operate... real tough...

if anyone has any pointers on where to get some dust boots for the slaves, let me know...

 

[Nikson]

Re: C-4/OC-4 rear end

cracked 'er open...

lots of crud/gel on the bottom, although oil was fairly clean at first......

Brakes...

Brakes...

Brakes...

what do you guys say... are they good enough to stay, or need to be relined? that is the brake bands I'm talking about...

they are about 1/4 inch thick...

 

[Nikson]

Re: axle shafts & sleeves

These guys were up for some cleaning...

seems like bearing are all in good shape...

 

[Nikson]

Re: rear end

Seems like either at the actual factory, or previous owners just spray painted everything all together... assembled...

giving it a personal touch... wirebrushed all of the paint, and give it a nice gunmetal look...

cleaned up the mounting brackets...

first coat of bedliner on the rear hitch & pivot mounts

nice n clean...

almost ready for paint...

 

[Nikson]

Re: VH4D flywheel & stator

For those who has been following, I've had a bit of a hard time removing the flywheel...

so after talking to Tim (his info was added to the thread earlier - real nice knowledgeable guy with Wisconsin engines) - i've used the 8lb sludge hammer, got the flywheel off the crankshaft...

The inspection showed that the original 10Amp stator was in pretty "no use" shape, and I've considered to use a winch setup, so needed a little more charging for the onboard battery.

New 30Amp stator from Tim is under $150, plus it eliminates all the necessities of the rectifier & regulators on the Wisconsin...

being that 5Amp should be about enough to keep the battery charged up and maintained for future starts, the other 25Amps can go towards charging up the rest of the system (most likely dual battery setup with Optima YellowTops), this way we have plenty of run time to power the RIGID LED lights, interior lights & 12v outlets, circulation fans, etc...

so measured the flywheel...

and stator...

heard back from Tim, who said that this flywheel will work with the 30A stator...

Another weekend went by successfully...

Closer to the end, closer to the winter...

Cheers

 

[Laurentian]

Pro Job ! What kind of training do you have ? You obviously know what you are doing.