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Seeking Snow Trac info and Kristy sighting.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Reddog
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Reddog

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Well, it seems I can't resist drinking the snowcat Koolaide and trying to have one on hand. After looking around a fair amount, I think I want the Snow Trac owners ranks. I see that Melensdad has sold his rig and it seemed to draw a fair amount in interest.
I have located another ST. It was "rebuilt" a few years back by someone in Oregon, or so I am being told. Overall very nice condition and the story seems to shake out given the condition of the cat. Paint and interior nice, tracks weathered, but usable, OE style grousers in very good shape. Sitting on a decent trailer. I have not yet driven the rig, but am told it operates as it should and will drive it prior to any final deal being made.
So here is the question: What is it's fair market value? I know this is a difficult question and a real wild card, but if Melensdad's rig brought 9K, and this one is in similar condition, on a trailer, local, ready to go, what would seem fair?
Not to be cryptic, but I'd like to hear opinions before I say what the saking price is. FWIW, it is more than $9K.
My use for a cat is primarily limited to cruising groomers and occasional trips to a friends cabin that can be scheduled to avoid crazy deep powder. I am used to working on stuff (mechanic by trade) and am particularly fond of European technology. I think the SnowTrac would be a good fit for me.
As an aside, I saw a topless Kristy :w00t2: around Cimarron Colorado yesterday. It was on a trailer but looked like they were heading out and about. Anybody on the forum out exercising their Kristy yesterday??
Thanks in advance for the input. Looking like a decent snow year for us, hope the same is true for the rest of you folks.
Doug in Gunnison
 
Hi Jim, Thanks for the reply. I'm embarassed to say I do not know enough about St's to know what model it is. I seem to recall it is a 1968 year model and did have 2 band tracks.
Doug in Gunnison
 
Doug,

I have never owned any other, but I find them to be a very interesting machine mechanically. I do honestly believe they are well built for the task, and there are many running units out there, the newest being nearly 25 years young about now as proof. They are also one of the more attractive cats out there apearance wise. They really don't look old when restored. Many times I have been asked were there is a dealer who sells new ones at?? They have some thing that is timeless going on here....

That said I have a pretty nice one I bought in 2010 for 10K in Washington state. No tailer just the machine. Very nicely restored, and it spent alot of time at Lyndon's and had many OEM parts put into it's restoration. After 3 seasons of use, I don't think that I paid too much. Unfortunately like Melensdads machine it is now located outside of areas in the west or east that get more snow than we do. So maybe worth less here, but I don't think i would have any trouble selling mine here today for what I paid. In fact there are standing offers that have been made...

Small in size and light in weight and very good on gas too. Roomy cabin for it's size. They cann't spot turn, and the turning radious increases in heavy wet snow. But for me this is not a big deal.

I think you would like the ST4 alot. Many have for many years. I hope this helps.

Best regards, Kirk
 
Thanks for the reply and insight Kirk. Seems any well kept or refurbished cat will bring the kind of numbers you are talking about. There are always "deals" to be had that work out in various levels, but the market seems to dictate value and price based on condition and application. For me, this rig seems to fit both bills.
One question I had is if anyone in the ST community has looked into putting a Subaru powerplant into one of these rigs. It is a very popular conversion in the VW van world and seems to work out from about every perspective. Adapters are readily available and a remote radiator would be the only challenge, and not much one at that. The rig I am considering is supposed to have a low hour rebuild in it and I try to subscribe to the KISS philosophy and "if it ain't broke, don't mess with it". Just wondering, more power, F.I. and hot water for interior heat might not be an alll together bad thing....
 
Doug,

For me I have a Mr Heat small ceramic propane heater in mine for use when the engine is off. On low it runs for many hours and keeps the cabin nice and toasty. I also turn it on when warming up the engine idling, and step into a warm cab at the start of the run.

The Subaru transplant maybe ok. But now it isn't original either, not sure how that would be on resale. Also beware of additional weight on the nose. When you crests a ridge and the nose falls is when the front boggie trucks get damaged. A heavier front end would make this damage more likely....

If you purchase the machine and don't like it, I think you won't have much trouble finding a buyer either.... With the VW in it anyway.

Regards, Kirk
 
Kirk,
We had a Mr. Heater Buddy in the back of the LMC1500 and liked it. Actually, up front being too hot from the greenhouse effect of windows was more of an issue than being cold. The rig I am looking at supposedly still has a gas heater (Eberspacher I suppose) in it. I have dealt with these in hydronic applications and like them, finicky as they can be...
I agree with the originality comment. Part of the appeal of this rig is it's unique nature, changing that would take away some of that appeal for me and others I am sure.
 
As an aside, I saw a topless Kristy :w00t2: around Cimarron Colorado yesterday. It was on a trailer but looked like they were heading out and about.

A topless Kristi ( that must have been Big ALS if it was topless) ;)
I would have said Mainer but he disappeared something about black helicopters
Flying in the General Maine area

Merry Christmas to all ( yes you too Mainer ) :smile:
 
Snow Trac going alone?

Well I got the snow trac bug real bad now- If bob's buyer is a no show I'm on it. I have a cabin at 6,500 ft in the southern sierras (Piute Mountain) near Lake Isabella- It's in the National Forest and gets a few feet a year from Dec-early march.

The forest service doesn't plow and it's about 15 miles in from the snow line. My question is- what is the reliability of the ST4 going solo? Don't want to take the family up and have a disaster on my hands.

There is one year round dweller up there with a snow machine, so limited help is possible. I would prefer to caravan with another rig but can't get any neighbors interested in snow cats.

Murph
 

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I also been thinking about getting Tatou tracks for my Diahatsu Hijet- It's got 4wD hi/lo and a locking rear diff and a 3 cylinder subaru- but then I'm into building a cab for the family in back...
 
to answer some questions, first snow trac's are worth what one will pay for it. seems prices are high this year. I would be cautious about any alleged rebuild on an engine unless you know who rebuilt it. there are a lot of self proclaimed aircooled experts out there. I see it every summer with the dredge fleet they come up here with rebuilt motors and in 150 hours they are leaking and the lower end is shot. for those who are asking about reliability I run mine up to about 100 miles in a day I have found some weaknesses most notably is the cross member supporting the center springs and the front boggie set up on the 2 band tracks. during Iditarod I average about 2 trips a day to safety that is 17 miles and one trip a day to anvil mountain for musk ox viewing. I run aero shell 15w 50 oil and change it every 50 hours and do the oil filter every hundred hours. I also use lots of grease. the early years of shaking it down were work breaking cross members boggie issues and a new engine and than a transmission rebuild all of which I have a good repair for. things to look for are the cross member supporting the body on the center springs will break with time a piece of 2 inch square box tube will fit down the inside slide a piece of 1/4 inch wall tube from end to end you will have no more problems ever .if the front boggie trucks are hammered I would suggest my big wheel conversion it just works and rides better. also check the drive chains these are metric iso standard chains a lot of folks replace them with #80 this will tear up your drive sprockets at the axle end. other than cooling issues previously discussed these are the things that will bite you in the but in the back country.
 
great info Don- thanks for the heads up. I'm good with metal work, but I'm no mechanic. I like your point on the drive chain- I would never think to see if it's original metric!

Murph
 
also these rigs aren't tanks they will ascend hills pretty good I do it all the time but their mountain performance is nothing like my Thiokol 2100 which is intended for going up and down steep inclines the st4 is also pretty agile when compared to other cats in it's class.
 
For pure mountian use an ST4B or snow master would be a better choice. To wide for a car tailer though. Might just give Dons 2100 a run for the money in really deep powder snow too....

Regards, Kirk
 
Thanks Don- The roads in are maintained by the NFS, and in the summer no problem even 2 wheel drive- I'm not thinking about challenging terrain- yet :)

I already have a double axle car trailer so trying to keep the cat light and simple. Also the southern sierras tend to wet, heavy and/or frozen- powder doesn't last around here, so I'm thinking the narrow ST4 would be fine.

Murph
 
on my wet snow my stock st4 doesn't drag. I have had the step to the door more of a climb a few times. I have to do over 2mph to keep the snow thrown clear of the tracks. they are a good trailbreaker. the front bumper catches some drifts and sprays your windshield. they are dependable but like all of them you want to stay on top of the maintenance.
this isn't deep snow but shows how it steers.
 
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So we unload at about 8000' and conditions permitting, can go above 11,000 on groomers. Any thoughts on HP limitations due to losses related to elevation? Seems like pumping up the HP of the stock motor (within limits focused on reliability) would be fairly easy. I have had a significant amount of experience with F.I. Type 4 motors in 914's. Anybody heard of making this swap? I am pretty sure dimensionally they are bigger.
And a big thanks to Don for contacting me and taking time to talk ST's. Lots of good info and a big help.
I do think that one thing that draws me back to cats is the great community. OK, enough mushy gushy emotional carp, back to business.....
Thanks for joining the discussion pimkev, I like some of the points you have brought forward. Re the car hauler trailer, I am pretty sure you would need to make a "overdeck" to get the ST on it. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but even on a narrow model, the outside to outside measurement of the tracks must be in the 8' range, correct??....
 
Thanks Doug- anyone that knows what the actual widths for the narrow and wide... would be great to confirm. I just went off the wikipedia info that calls out the Snow Trac at 6'2" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_Trac

As for the FF cat community- any guy that enjoys driving 40+ year old machines in the snow-bound wilderness is alright in my book :)

murph
 
Jim - thanks for the video- racing snow tracs LOL! did not know they were so agile. Looked like a dead soldier in the side bin at 1:37? :) Anyway that's what I've been aiming for the last 4 years- too cool.

murph
 
Reddog said:
So we unload at about 8000' and conditions permitting, can go above 11,000 on groomers. Any thoughts on HP limitations due to losses related to elevation?
Click to expand...

With a normally aspirated engine the rule of thumb is you lose about three percent of your horsepower for every 1,000' gain in elevation.
 
hi blackfoot- I've been shopping tatou and mattracks for a few years- which is why I bought the diahatsu hijet with the same bolt pattern as a rhino. But then I have to build a cab for the bed to get the family out of the cold and for the same price as a cab and tracks I could've bought Bob's ST4 :(
 
the st-4 is 6.2 wide and will fit into a sky van also fit on a car hauler the the snow master the st-4b is 8-6 and will require a deck over trailer. the snowmaster has verry agressive tracks but those tracks will suck up horse power making a 100 plus hp motor a necessity above 10k you also have to remember i have pushed the little 1600 hard and it will pull a hill at 3k in high gear but you will see cyl head temp spike fast requiring down shifting to 3rd to drop engine temp.
 
Just as with any vehical power to weight is what matters. With a wet weight of about 2,8000 lbs, it doesn't take the HP that a 8,000 lb machine would need. At high altitudes any cat without a turbo or super charger will suffer a loss of performance.

Form what I have read here, not actuall experiance, A good 1600 at say 50-60 Hp will have enough to get you there and back. F.I. and altitiude comp would be nice however....If this is a problem I have yet to read it any where.. After 50 years of production you would think they are pretty well documented and explained..

ST4B's have quite a bit deeper gearing for I assume High altitudes and lower power output from the engine. And to help pull the wider tracks...

Regards, Kirk
 
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I have taken a br100 plus into the hills to work my snow trac can run circles around it and a snow trac can ascend some pretty impressive inclines, as I have done it but is is not as agile as a snowmachine. I have also pushed mine to the limit at sea level.with out a problem and after talking to our old member leadvillrpm who also lived at some where around 10k with the stock 1600 he was asking an awful lot of it at that altitude. last time we talked just after his shop burned he was planning a forced induction set up and maybe efi as he knew of some mexicain efi kits that had a good rep for reliability. something like that may require the dual port fan system so you could also get the high output fan. all things considered the snow trac and snowmasters worked well for Canadian tel they used them for years and they worked well you just have to drop a gear and get a cup of coffee out and enjoy the ride.
 
Reddog said:
A conservative turbo would seem to be the easiest approach. Kits look to run around $2500....ouch
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Maybe just sit back and enjoy the ride....
Click to expand...
one of these days I would like to build a test platform to see how much reliability and power I can get out of one. on the plus side of the Porsche conversion that engine would also allow you to rev much higher which would get you running as fast in 3 rd as one would run in 4th at 4000 rpm with the bug motor . one of the newer tdi vw diesels would fit nice and not add too much more weight to the front end food for thaught 100 hp and forced induction for better performance at altitude.
 
Reddog,
I lke the idea of a 914 engine transplant but wonder if it would work. Do you know the model numbeer of the 914 engine?? Maybe some intell needs done. I do know where one could be had not so long ago...

Regards, Kirk
 
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