Snowcat Operations said:
Yes I own firearms. Do I go around pointing my barrel in other people faces and threatening them with total destruction. (If I did I would get shot) To proclaim to the world that if you are not a muslim and if you dont convert that I will be head you? (Funny how if you take a country and put a citizen in its place and he started doing what his country is doing. IE threatening everyone around him. How would the police act)
I find it funny how you apparently are able to see the logic of defending yourself in your personal life, you admit to the logic of not going around pointing your gun in others' faces - and yet this logic appears to escape you when you start looking at international relations. You make the statement "If I did I would get shot" yet you apparently have no knowledge of geography or recent events because you don't realize that the US has invaded countries on either side of Iran and has threatened to invade Iran on a number of occasions. To me the development by Iran of nuclear weapons is an entirely logical response to the way the US has acted in that region of the world. Do not take words and put them in my mouth and say that I am somehow supporting them - I am not. But ignorance of reality is not the best way to go around leading one's life.
SO AGAIN WHY DONT YOU ANSWER MY ONE QUESTION THAT I ASKED YOU TO ANSWER? JUST THAT ONE? You see I knew you wouldnt even begin to answer my others and now you wont even answer that one simple question.
You are just like most other people in this country - you have bought into the fallacy that in order to protect this country we need to go galavanting around the world saving everybody else's asses. What has that gotten us so far? How well did Vietnam turn out for us? Is the Iraq war over yet and are the Iraqis dancing around thanking us for democracy? No. My personal opinion (which I have stated on this site a number of times) is that the Mideast as a whole is a big stinking cesspool - and there is absolutely no way that we will be able to go in there and force thru solutions. Until the people in the Mideast decide they are sick of their leaders and throw them out nothing will ever change there. Why do we in the US celebrate the fact that the citizens of this country threw out the British and establised a goverment and society for the people - and yet we don't seem to think that this process might work in other places? By involving ourselves in the Iraq war we have gotten this country drawn into something that may well prove our undoing in the end. There is always more than one way to win a war - and the problem here is that I believe that we as a country are NOT SERIOUS about winning this. Too many people believe that we are not facing a real threat - we are not addressing issues like immigration from the Mideast (why is the former spokesman for the Taliban going to Yale?), and the big one is - why do we continue to send our dollars to the Mideast and continue to keep paying for oil? To continue to keep doing this is like letting the Islamics hold onto our balls while we engage in a fistfight with them. The surest way for us to win this war is to remove the funding that supports it. This means an absolute stop to any purchase of oil from the Mideast. Once the money dried up the sources of funding for weapons would dry up. In the end the Mideast as a whole needs us far more than we need them - if you don't count the oil. The problem is that with us so dependent oil we need them far more than they need us and they know it and they use it to their advantage. By continuing to do this we are sowing the seeds of our own destruction. If you don't believe me read this article:
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=12833
Where do you think that $70 billion came from?
OkeeDon has mentioned that I support Pat Buchanan - I cant say I support everything about him, but I do believe he has some very good things to say - if you really want to get a different view on things I highly recommend you read his book " A Republic Not an Empire" - he makes some extremely good points, he backs them up, and what he says is entirely relevant to what is going on with the US right now.
A good part of the problem is that even so called "conservatives" are not really conservative any more. They just believe in screwing around with peoples lives in different ways. George Bush and his crowd put on a good face of conservatism but in the end they are just using the goverment to further their own goals - deficit spending goes up, goverment agencies expand, the goverment pokes into our lives even more, etc.
This article has some good commentary about this:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/rockwell/neo-con-explained.html
And as far as okeedon yes Kruschev ordered the weapons back. BUT HE KNEW it would mean war and he knew we would have invaded CUBA. You sir believe hollow threats can achive something. They only work for a while and then you get the crap we are in now because finally SOMEONE had the balls to do what was right. You cant stand the idea that GWB is just like JFK when it come to this matter (hell even on taxes). And as far as the U.N. once again you liberals are sticking your heads in the sand and not seeing any wrong from your beloved idea. THE UN SUCKS. IT IS CORRUPTED BEYOND REPAIR AND YOU STILL BLINDLY FOLLOW IT. You know you people are what have destroyed this great country that JFK help build. YOU have cut off our balls and have thrown them to the wolfs and cant understand why we are so hated in the world. Once you show the enemy we are weak they will try and attack. When you make excuses for those attacks against us you encourage them to do more. MY GOD! thank God we didnt have people like you in power back in the 40s! You would be saying how nice HITLER IS or how we really provoked JAPAN into attacking us!
If you knew anything at all about the reasoning behind Bin Laden and his ilk you would know that one of the main reasons why they think they can attack us is because many of the US's interventionist wars over the last 50 years have not turned out so well. The Islamics perceive us as weak and aim to take advantage of that. By drawing us into their cesspool of a world they believe they can drown us in their shit. And we are falling for it.
I don't believe I ever defended or advocated anything about the UN - frankly I believe we should get out of the UN - they are useless and they do not deserve to have power over any of the US's affairs.
"Somebody had the balls to do what is right" - what is that exactly? Invade another country that did not attack us? Frankly I think taking out Saddam was the stupidest thing we could have done. Instead of supporting Israel we should have been supporting Saddam - tired of Iran ?- give Saddam more money and weapons and tell him to go at the Iranians. Tired of the Saudi Wahabi schools turning out terrorists? Let Saddam threaten Saudi Arabia and see how quickly they come in line. Saddam could have been our bitch and we blew it. He would have taken care of the Islamics much better than we ever could have - and since the French and the Germans and the Russians all wanted to trade with him it would have kept them in line too.
You make reference to the Japanese and Hitler during WWII - which is why I must again point you to Buchanan's book I mentioned earlier. He makes the point that the Nazis did not initially look at invading France and England. Hitler actually considered the British a potential ally. The initial invasions were pointed to the East - into Czeckoslovakia and Poland, and then ultimately Russia - not into France. France and England entered the war because they had defense treaties signed with Poland. Once France and England entered the war Germany had to go into France because they threatened Germany from the West. Hitlers ultimate goal was "leubenshraum" or "living room" - the Nazis considered the Slavs as subhuman and his ultimate goal was to invade Russia. If the Germans had not had to fight the French and the British and the Americans they might have actually defeated the Russians.
Can you say that having Communist Russia survive WWII was a good thing? Stalin killed more people than Hitler did. Communist China under Mao killed more people than Hitler did. Remember that one of Hitlers inner circle actually flew to England in a ME-110 to try and get a peace between Germany and Britain - there were no such attempts with the Russians. Could the US, France, and Britain have defeated Germany without Russia? I dont know. Would we have had to? I don't know. This is all conjecture. The point is that history took the turns that it did because Britain and France got involved because they had to defend Poland - not taking into account that Poland is essentially indefensible geographically from France or Britain. This sucked them into a war that almost broke them - then the US got sucked in too.
The point of all this is that when you get involved in a war you can't predict what might fall out of that. We are in a war right now that we cannot predict what the real outcome will be over time - doing this type of thing is not a "conservative" action.
By the way you had put me on your ignore list before I even asked those questions. WHY? I had never directed anything toward you specifically. Or did you know I was right and you were wrong and just decided you couldnt handle the truth? The truth is scary isnt it? You realized everything you stand for is full of crap! BUT there is hope for you. You can come over to the other side. The side of truth! The TRUTH shall set you free my friend. Take that step and dont get all caught up in the emotions. I am seriuos here. OPen your eyes and you mind and trully think for your self. Quit having someone else tell you how to think. What to say. I wont put you or anybody on my Ignore list. WHY? We are talking about OUR future wether you want to admit that or not. Our childrens future is at stake not some political contest. I dont give a crap about the Republicans or Democrats. BUT I do care about the well being of our GREAT COUNTY! Shouldnt you?
You are goddam right our future is at stake. And I can't see how spending our country into bankruptcy, bleeding our military out on foreign shores, spending 100's of billions of dollars on fighting wars, pissing off half of the countries across the globe, and blindly striking out and giving other countries reason to fear us - is going to make us safer.
What truth is it exactly that you think we should come over to? After reading your comments they frankly look to me like a scripted speech from the Bush Administration. I don't think that either OkeeDon or myself are the ones that need to start thinking for ourselves. Quite frankly the way you are talking is just as disturbing and threatening to the ultimate safety of this country as the Islamic terrorists. Blindly marching in tune to the war drums is not necessarily the best way to defend this country and defeat the enemy. In the end it may be the surest way to get us all killed.
).
. It has been fun. 
