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Backcountry Skiing

They can do and say whatever they want and they do just that but there is only two legal and enforcable ways to close an area to motorized vehicles.
 
This is a dumb argument as most ski areas are located on a section of land in a non-motorized area to begin with. The Forest Service issues a Special Use Permit to them which allows, among other thing, the use of motorized vehicles. When Geneva Basin closed down, due to a popular vote of the residents of Park County who had the option of ownership, the Special Use Permit was retired. Thus so was motorized use. It is unlikely the Forest Service will issue a new Special Use Permit to Backcountry for a Snowcat Skiing Club (wink, wink,nod, nod) without substantial public benefit and public support, neither which exists. It is discouraging to hear that in some areas the Forest Service is viewed as being the enemy when around here I think they do an admirable job of working with us. Especially when you consider there are an awful lot of enviro types moving west these days creating lots of political pressure.
 
Wow! Dumb argument? Huh non motorized to begin with? Have not found one ski area that I did not drive to in a motorized vehicle and was designated as non motorized in fact the newest ski area in the US is not non motorized to begin with and who said the FSS is the enemy? I certainly hope you are not suggesting I did.
Keeping the USFS on level and legal playing ground is admirable.
 
How can one make an argument that this is not good and fun for the public... Heck should all new generations of kids be told NO! Yrrr grandpa had fun here but you are not allowed? Who or what does it hurt?


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KAN6UCVGXc&feature=related"]YouTube - Pure Backcountry Powder day with Snowcats[/ame]
 
Yellowpine I enjoyed you UTube. Reminded me of last Thursdays 10" powder day. It is very ironic that you chose a video of skiers using Steamboat Powder Cats. This particular comercial operation has been trying with all their might to gain exclusive use of the National Forest area where they operate. In other words, kick guys like you and me out so they have it all to themselves. Buffalo Pass where they operate is a motorized allowed area and a lot of people are using private owned snowmobiles and snowcats to ski recreationally and Powder Cats doesn't like the competition for the fresh powder. The Forest Service is so far sticking to their guns and reminding these guys that all they have is a use permit that grants them the exclusive right to charge for this service in this area. I just thought it was funny that the example of good fun for the public and future generations was shot in the very place where the Forest (Dis-Service was it?) is protecting our interests. And no, Yellowpine, I am not taking a shot at you. This thread has been taking a distinctly anti big Forest Service against the poor little guy, who only wants to run an illegal, non-permited,commercial snowcat skiing "Club" in a non-motorized area, feel to it from the begining. The Forest Service has a tough job managing our land and overall they do a pretty good job of it. Offering suggestions on how to skirt the rules and cheat for personal gain can have no positive effect.
 
yellowpine O.T.S. said:
Wow! Dumb argument? Huh non motorized to begin with? Have not found one ski area that I did not drive to in a motorized vehicle and was designated as non motorized in fact the newest ski area in the US is not non motorized to begin with and who said the FSS is the enemy? I certainly hope you are not suggesting I did.
Keeping the USFS on level and legal playing ground is admirable.
Click to expand...

If you check the FS permit for a ski area it will allow motorized access to vehicle parking areas, designated through trails and roads, but the actual ski area terrain is closed to all motorized vehicles except for ski area maintenance equipment. Sometimes, the FS and area permit holder will open it up for a couple days by special permit to allow an event such as an organized snowmobile hill climb event. You have to get the special permit for the snowmobile hill climb from the FS. I have seen where they will deny a special use permit if the ski hill conditions are not good with a lot of snow cover to protect resources and prevent damage to the slopes.

Your best resource to get what you want is to get to know the people in the FS organization. Read, understand and learn the laws in the Federal Register that pertain to the usage and protection of the public lands that you want to use. After through research, you may find info that will help you accomplish your goals or you may be denied according to the laws in the federal register. Having someone that you can communicate with in the FS organization is very helpful also. Develop a relationship by being a good neighbor and supporting the goals that are important to both you and them. Then ask for what you want by seeking a special use permit and having a through business plan on how your special use permit will be utilized to benefit the FS and the public. If you go in demanding then you immediately put them on the defensive.
 
To clear things up a bit. We wrote to the USFS asking what we would need from them to operate a snow cat business, they wrote back and said that if the road is under the jurisdiction of the county that it would be a county matter. The roads we operate on are indeed county roads, therefore we wrote to the county and they granted county approval.

I'm sure there were ski areas somewere that were non motorized to begin with I just do not know of any and the ski area permit indeed is what closed the use of motorized vehicles by the(non permitee) public.We have found that in some cases the USFS will publish something that states the area is closed to motorized vehicles(Backwoods travel map) when indeed the roads or areas are truly and legaly not closed.

I do feel a bit under attack here and want to make it very clear that we have always played with our cards above the table and are not trying to "Offer suggestions on how to skirt the rules and cheat" but rather share our expierences of what the rules are for both the FSS and the public. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
 
Yellowpine - Thanks for the video. Looked like a ton of fun. Till next ski season. We'll have to stick to the alpine hiking up and ski down turns this Spring.

We are not trying to cheat or run any illegal back country ski snowcat business. After researching the whole forest service snowcat business operation and all the BS involved we found it would make more sense to gather up friends/family and run it as a club. Then we can enjoy skiing/boarding on fresh tracks instead of dealing with parking, lines and the resort BS.
 
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