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Anybody watching Trump vs Zelinski on TV?

And for those who are unaware, Ukraine has been using subversive tactics to intimidate and threaten various American journalist, politicians and organizations.

So are we actually allies or partners as Zelensky states, or are we just the supporting uncle who is tired of continuing down the same path and now willing to expose the truth.

 
You can "if" all day and all night but at some point people have to act.

Meanwhile, they are calling for Zelensky to be impeached.

The "IF" was if the Americans continue to supply weapons to the Ukrainians .
Quite a chequered past when you read up on this Dubinsky guy .
 
The "IF" was if the Americans continue to supply weapons to the Ukrainians .
Quite a chequered past when you read up on this Dubinsky guy .
Well pretty sure that the current administration is NOT inclined to continue much now.

Regardless of his past, he is an elected member of the Parliament. And Zelensky is acting like a petulant 4 year old. He knew that the US was his biggest benefactor but kept thanking the EU nations for their support. He also, before Putin invaded, shuttered down 5 tv stations that he said were critical of him. . . which would be similar to Biden actually closing down Fox News. Want to talk checkered past, I can continue with Zelensky's miscalculations.
 
Military action should be, and usually is, the last resort. The U.S. can impose various sanctions on Russia, including freezing assets of individuals and companies, banning exports of technology, and restricting financial transactions with Russian banks. All of this, and more, hurts Russia's economy, and they are already hurting enough. That, probably more than the threat of violence, would keep Russia from invading Ukraine further.

As for China, if they were going to invade Taiwan, they would have already done it while Biden was president. They won't do it now that Trump is. And, they have too much to lose economically.

Europe has had the time to rebuild their military for decades. They just haven't because they've come to rely on the U.S. too much. As the U.S./Trump makes clear to them that we are not going to bail them out of their own messes, they'll be forced to rebuild their militaries.

"Waiting" for a perfect peace deal that "lasts" also means more U.S. treasure spent on an endless foreign war with little to nothing for the U.S. to show for it. Sound familiar? I think we're done with that. Trump is saying either end the war now or you're on your own.
We have seen the sanctions squeeze the Russians over the past 3 years , they are having an effect , but loop holes exist . Now if and when the Russians come to the table , those sanctions will be eased , they could easily wait another four years for round two , while they rebuild .
China's stated goal is reunification of Taiwan , same with them, they'll bide their time . If they wait out Trump it gives Japan and other Pacific American allies time to bolster their defences .
There you have it ,if these talks , take months , maybe a year or more , will America tire and move on.
 
Well pretty sure that the current administration is NOT inclined to continue much now.

Regardless of his past, he is an elected member of the Parliament. And Zelensky is acting like a petulant 4 year old. He knew that the US was his biggest benefactor but kept thanking the EU nations for their support. He also, before Putin invaded, shuttered down 5 tv stations that he said were critical of him. . . which would be similar to Biden actually closing down Fox News. Want to talk checkered past, I can continue with Zelensky's miscalculations.
If and when a peace deal comes and Martial Law is lifted , Ukraine can have its election.
 
So the Russians are happy? Good. What is so bad about Russia being happy? Means an end to the war is coming. A path to an agreement is closer than ever.
As for Zelenskyy (that's how he spells it), I'd say he now has a target on his back. I'm sure many Ukes reacted just like that ambassador. There are some very upset Ukes.
 
So the Russians are happy? Good. What is so bad about Russia being happy? Means an end to the war is coming. A path to an agreement is closer than ever.
As for Zelenskyy (that's how he spells it), I'd say he now has a target on his back. I'm sure many Ukes reacted just like that ambassador. There are some very upset Ukes.
Oh the Russians are happy now , but their just not sure when Trump could do a 180 on them . Considering the prelim talks have just started , looks like many months ahead if and when the parties get to the table .
 
If and when a peace deal comes and Martial Law is lifted , Ukraine can have its election.
So how will peace come? If we continue the Biden/EU path it will end with Russia grinding down Ukraine and killing off all its fighting age men.

What is your solution that won't end up in a nuclear attack or WW3?
 
So how will peace come? If we continue the Biden/EU path it will end with Russia grinding down Ukraine and killing off all its fighting age men.

What is your solution that won't end up in a nuclear
Why still buy into the Red line Russia talk , how many of these lines have been crossed over the last 3 years , with no response from Russia. First time in 80 years you have a foreign army invade Russia , so far they haven't kicked them out in over 6 months.
Trump mused about this before the election , where he said if Putin didn't come to the table ,ready to negotiate , he would give Ukraine what it needed to get the job done , until Putin had a change of heart.
So far the Russians haven't moved any on their original demands ( basically a ukraine surrender )and concessions have been made by the west even before they sat down for the first talks.
Judging by events on Friday , giving Ukraine what it needs ( not the slow feed of Biden ) is not going to happen. So this is going to grind on until one side cannot continue.
But who knows Trump is a wild card , this could all change in a week from now .
 
We have seen the sanctions squeeze the Russians over the past 3 years , they are having an effect , but loop holes exist . Now if and when the Russians come to the table , those sanctions will be eased , they could easily wait another four years for round two , while they rebuild .
China's stated goal is reunification of Taiwan , same with them, they'll bide their time . If they wait out Trump it gives Japan and other Pacific American allies time to bolster their defences .
There you have it ,if these talks , take months , maybe a year or more , will America tire and move on.
So we work to close the loop holes, and impose further sanctions as necessary. If they come to the table, we probably ease them, as seems fitting. If that works in their favor, and they use the time to rebuild and come back for "round two," then we deal with it then, if we feel it necessary. There will never be a forever solution, short of nuclear war, and nobody wants that.

As for China "waiting out" Trump, yes, that's a real possibility, but at least they won't do anything while he's in office. And if America is smart, it will elect somebody similar to Trump next time, and so on. And if we don't, then bad things might happen because of it, and we learn. Again, no forever solution.

And I don't think Trump will wait months, let alone a year or more, for Zelensky to agree to end the war, while thousands more die and billions more are spent. If it comes to that, the U.S. just leaves them high and dry, and Zelensky knows it, so he won't hold out much longer.
 
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And .... Russia is not America's equal on the world stage . The optics look bad ,when denying a known fact about the invasion , but it certainly must have made the Russian's happy .
Optics don't matter as much as final actions. Tip toeing around world opinion gets us nowhere.
 
Military action should be, and usually is, the last resort. The U.S. can impose various sanctions on Russia, including freezing assets of individuals and companies, banning exports of technology, and restricting financial transactions with Russian banks. All of this, and more, hurts Russia's economy, and they are already hurting enough. That, probably more than the threat of violence, would keep Russia from invading Ukraine further.

As for China, if they were going to invade Taiwan, they would have already done it while Biden was president. They won't do it now that Trump is. And, they have too much to lose economically.

Europe has had the time to rebuild their military for decades. They just haven't because they've come to rely on the U.S. too much. As the U.S./Trump makes clear to them that we are not going to bail them out of their own messes, they'll be forced to rebuild their militaries.

"Waiting" for a perfect peace deal that "lasts" also means more U.S. treasure spent on an endless foreign war with little to nothing for the U.S. to show for it. Sound familiar? I think we're done with that. Trump is saying either end the war now or you're on your own.
You nailed it!
 
Why still buy into the Red line Russia talk , how many of these lines have been crossed over the last 3 years , with no response from Russia. First time in 80 years you have a foreign army invade Russia , so far they haven't kicked them out in over 6 months.
Trump mused about this before the election , where he said if Putin didn't come to the table ,ready to negotiate , he would give Ukraine what it needed to get the job done , until Putin had a change of heart.
So far the Russians haven't moved any on their original demands ( basically a ukraine surrender )and concessions have been made by the west even before they sat down for the first talks.
Judging by events on Friday , giving Ukraine what it needs ( not the slow feed of Biden ) is not going to happen. So this is going to grind on until one side cannot continue.
But who knows Trump is a wild card , this could all change in a week from now .
Do I buy into the Redline talk?

But again, Trump is offering a solution. You are just chirping away with criticism and seemingly asking to maintain the status quo, which is nothing more than a meat grinder that is killing and maiming Ukranians.

So one more time, what is your solution?
 
Do I buy into the Redline talk?

But again, Trump is offering a solution. You are just chirping away with criticism and seemingly asking to maintain the status quo, which is nothing more than a meat grinder that is killing and maiming Ukranians.

So one more time, what is your solution?
It was laid out in my post , make the Russians want to come to the table .... they need to feel the pressure to negotiate and compromise. Now if that takes a year of status quo to get the Russians in that position in order to achieve a fair deal for Ukraine , that's my opinion. What is the opinion of your Ukrainian " family "
 
It was laid out in my post , make the Russians want to come to the table .... they need to feel the pressure to negotiate and compromise. Now if that takes a year of status quo to get the Russians in that position in order to achieve a fair deal for Ukraine , that's my opinion. What is the opinion of your Ukrainian " family "

You realize they already have said they want to come to the table.

My Ukrainian family wants Crimea back and all the other lands. They want NATO to join the war. They want WW3. Literally.
 
The Russian position is well known , Trump seems to be sympathetic to their position. Does that bode well for Ukraine , time will tell when negotiations start. Will Ukraine be part of this ? , Russia would prefer not .
As for the Ukrainian spirit and tenacity , I commend your Ukrainian family .
 
As for the Ukrainian spirit and tenacity , I commend your Ukrainian family .

They have no plan to get that. They don't understand why NATO won't join the war.

They literally want NATO to do their fighting.

And they want to use nuclear weapons against Russia.
 
Go back 20 years. We agreed no NATO expansion. We agreed. NATO agreed. What happened? How many new NATO countries since then?
Europe and NATO started this entire thing.
In the end, Trump will fix it.
Nobody else has the ability.
Putin wants it to end. He understands position.
And yes, Putin will keep some of not all of what he took.
The cucks will blame Trump. They need to look back 20 years.
And then understand history repeats itself if you let it.
 
When a nation is in that position all options are on the table.
The Ukrainians understand what will happen to them if subjecated by Russia.
Go back 20 years. We agreed no NATO expansion. We agreed. NATO agreed. What happened? How many new NATO countries since then?
Europe and NATO started this entire thing.
In the end, Trump will fix it.
Nobody else has the ability.
Putin wants it to end. He understands position.
And yes, Putin will keep some of not all of what he took.
The cucks will blame Trump. They need to look back 20 years.
And then understand history repeats itself if
President Bush supported Georgia and Ukraine to join NATO back in 2008. Meetings were held , Putin knew , but waited until 2014 and then 2022 to stop Nato expansion of Ukraine..., doesn't add up.
But Putin did manage to get Finland and Sweden to join Nato , so that worked out. The Finnish /Russian border is largely empty of Russian troops , Putin is not worried about being attacked by NATO.
 
NATOs charter is not about attack. It's about defend.
Can you put yourself in Russia's position? More NATO countries equates to aggression. It's that simple. Like Cuba. Did you not expect a response? It's a money maker.
And then Ukraine starts talks about joining NATO and NATO starts listening?
Who cares that Russia waited; it happened.

From my wife's perspective, being a Polish citizen during the time of Soviet control, the Ukranians are worse than any Russian.
I do not understand the total approval of Ukraine.
 
I worked with a lot of east europeans that grew up behind the iron curtain , none of them were fans of Russia. So its only natural all these former Warsaw pact members and Soviet Republics wanting security from the Russians by joining NATO.
Precisely NATO is a defensive organization , but it makes it harder for Putin to remake Russia into the size of the former Soviet Union he desparately wants .
 
What don't you understand? Signed agreements. So ask those that signed other than Russia, did NOT keep to they agreement. Who was wrong?
The signed agreement in 1990 was strictly about the reunification of east and west germany. That being said verbal assurances were given to Gorbachev , about NATO expansion not going east , guess they should have got it on paper ........
 
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