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Anybody watching Trump vs Zelinski on TV?

Right now, Zelensky is pleading to come back to the table.
Trump replied he has other things to do right now.
Zelenski balked at the cease fire part of the deal.
A cease fire is what President Trump wants.

What kind of war ends without a cease fire?

Zelensky used the cease-fire comments of VP Vance's to spring his trap by suggesting Vance didn't belong in the conversation because he had no international negotiating skills. What pluck!!!!! The audacity!
What an insult from a man who has no cards to play.

I say this request to continue the fighting was a pre-planned ploy to embarrass our President.

Thank God Biden, Harris, and Walz were out of the picture.
 
Watching this, Zelinski didn't get it.
No apologies. Same old line, we have to help. Just like a welfare baby momma.

This guy is acting like he has a position of power, while begging for help. He doesn't get it.
 
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FrancSevin said:
Why would the USA stop aid? Thats not in the deal. What has stopped is the cash laundry operation. An operation that Zilinsky and friends currently enjoy.

If the US interests have huge investments in mining and transport of minerals from Ukraine, then two things happen. The US will protect it's interests and Russia will have no choice but to cease hostilities.

Ukraine has lost more than 90 thousand lives, not to mention irreplicable real-estate and treasured structures. In the process making Zelinsky and other oligarchs uber rich. Time for him to retire.
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So after today's theatre in the Oval office , military aid from the U.S will continue , not just the aid already in the pipe line ?
How will America protect it's interests in Ukraine , Trump has already said no boots on the ground ?
 
waybomb said:
There won't be any nukes.
There won't be any NATO.
Ukraine will give up some of what Russia took.
If Zelinski doesn't agree now, he'll lose alot more.
And there will be a much larger NATO and a new US presence on the Polish border.
And Putin does not want that.
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You can't rule out any of these countries that are under threat from Russia or China for that matter, to not look into having a Nuclear deterrent. The Ukrainians found out the hard way , other countries I'm sure are weighing their options especially now that protection from the United States is not to be assured .
This administration adding more troops to bolster Nato in Europe , don't see it happening .
 
We shouldn't add anything to NATO. Not until all the other NATO countries make up for their shortfall.
And no, they won't be allowed to get a nuke.
Now if Zelinski let Trump broke a deal, and sign a minerals deal, he'll have US protection in-country.
 
waybomb said:
We shouldn't add anything to NATO. Not until all the other NATO countries make up for their shortfall.
And no, they won't be allowed to get a nuke.
Now if Zelinski let Trump broke a deal, and sign a minerals deal, he'll have US protection in-country.
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Trump wants Europe to take care of themselves , so if anything he will remove assets from Europe. These countries looking at the deterrent option they'll be sanctioned......
This US protection after a minerals deal , what would that entail ?
 
Any thing that would disrupt work would be met with force. We don't have to be there.
And yes, Europe should fend or themselves, but I'm guessing Trump intends to support Europe, just playing them to kick up support for NATO.
 
That guarantee sounds a little soft . No boots on the ground or have a no fly zone , without those it's a paper tiger.... unless the west arms Ukraine to the teeth .
 
Your believe are yours. I believe what I believe. So we disagree. That's the beauty of America.
Putin is not going to want to f with us. The fact we have interests there change the narrative, completely.
We wouldn't be here if Biden was not elected. Period.
Stregth saves money.
 
Still waiting for him to turn the tables on Putin. That vote in the UN , where the U.S sided with Russia and North Korea what strategy was that ?
 
J5 Bombardier said:
The question is will Europe "pony up" , as it stands right now Nato is at a watershed , possible broken , maybe for only 4 years , maybe Trump will pull out of Nato , either way things will change and the alliance will have to adapt , or morph into some European led defence force
No signature as of today , but probably down the road , but it is hard to see how American interests in the minerals will be secured with no presence in the country and some of these deposits in Russian controlled Ukraine .Will Foreign investment come into the country , if a tentative peace does come , or an operational pause in the Russian view to rebuild their army .
As for Polls take with a grain of salt ,but one in feb 2025 has 81% of Americans not trusting Putin , probably the right call.
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It is the right call not to trust Putin, but then again, we don't have to. With U.S. mineral rights in Ukraine at stake, they won't attack, as that would guarantee a severe U.S. backlash.

As for Europe, the answer is yes, they will pony up, because they have no choice, if they believe that a Russian takeover of Ukraine would be an existential threat to NATO membered countries. Not that Russia would ever attack a NATO country, but that is their fear, and that is probably enough.

And the U.S. doesn't need a "presence" in Ukraine to receive rare earth minerals from there, any more than we need a presence in Taiwan in order to receive over $100 billion in imported goods per year from that country, despite China's interest in taking it over, which, by the way, is the reason they haven't.

Russia also offered the U.S. rare earth minerals, so that wouldn't be so strange, and if we took them up on it, it would probably only ensure that they wouldn't want to provoke us, so as not to screw up that deal, much like the U.S./China relationship.

And speaking of polls, a Gallup poll from last December showed that most Americans would prefer we end the war in Ukraine quickly, even if that means Russia keeps the territory they've already captured: https://news.gallup.com/poll/654575/americans-favor-quick-end-russia-ukraine-war.aspx.
 
J5 Bombardier said:
Still waiting for him to turn the tables on Putin. That vote in the UN , where the U.S sided with Russia and North Korea what strategy was that ?
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I am looking at history.

The Wagner Group was basically Putin's private assassination group and Trump literally killed them.
Russia was making money off of oil sales and Trump flooded the world market with cheap oil and almost bankrupted the country.

Trump was much harder on Russia than any President since Ronald Reagan when he destroyed the Soviet Union. Bush, Bush, Biden, Clinton or Obama ever thwart Russia? No. But Trump did.
 
J5 Bombardier said:
Still waiting for him to turn the tables on Putin. That vote in the UN , where the U.S sided with Russia and North Korea what strategy was that ?
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The goal is for the war in Ukraine to end. That requires both Putin and Zelensky to agree to a cease fire deal. Both are going to have to give up something, but also feel like they are gaining something. Zelensky gives up Russian seized territory, but gains economic ties with the U.S./vested economic interest. Putin gives up further Ukraine incursion, but gains the territory Russia captured. Of the two, Putin will be the harder one to convince, thus he must not feel insulted by the U.S. There's the strategy, probably.
 
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FrancSevin said:
What interests???
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Good question.

US is not an actual military ally of Ukraine.

US is a minimal trading partner with Ukraine. But Ukraine's main exports of food, primarily went to Africa and their grains were lower price and lower quality than the European grains.

Hunter Biden, through his Burisma deal to sell access to the President, enriched his family fortunes but the nation, overall, does not have a lot of interests in Ukraine at the moment.

Trump proposes interests in their minerals, and offers a co-sharing where we go in with US companies to invest and develop and then share the profits. But that was pretty much blown up today by Zelensky.
 
Patriot said:
It is the right call not to trust Putin, but then again, we don't have to. With U.S. mineral rights in Ukraine at stake, they won't attack, as that would guarantee a severe U.S. backlash.

As for Europe, the answer is yes, they will pony up, because they have no choice, if they believe that a Russian takeover of Ukraine would be an existential threat to NATO membered countries. Not that Russia would ever attack a NATO country, but that is their fear, and that is probably enough.

And the U.S. doesn't need a "presence" in Ukraine to receive rare earth minerals from there, any more than we need a presence in Taiwan in order to receive over $100 billion in imported goods per year from that country, despite China's interest in taking it over, which, by the way, is the reason they haven't.

Russia also offered the U.S. rare earth minerals, so that wouldn't be so strange, and if we took them up on it, it would probably only ensure that they wouldn't want to provoke us, so as not to screw up that deal, much like the U.S./China relationship.

And speaking of polls, a Gallup poll from last December showed that most Americans would prefer we end the war in Ukraine quickly, even if that means Russia keeps the territory they've already captured: https://news.gallup.com/poll/654575/americans-favor-quick-end-russia-ukraine-war.aspx.
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Not so sure about that " severe U.S backlash " to deter the Russians , if the mineral rights of the U.S are to be protected they'll have to ensure the Ukrainians are able to do it for them. These minerals the Russians would have no problem selling to others on the world market , just like their oil .
As for the Chinese , they are watching this play out , seeing America's response , if Russia comes out a "winner" in this , and weighing how many years of sanctions they would endure over invading Taiwan . After all that and when militarily ready they would invade , only a strong American presence may deter them .
As the future of NATO at this moment is in flux , many of these East European countries face the reality of the Russians , but Russia is incapable of any invasion until they rebuild their military , 5-10 years ? , gives Europe time to do the same.
Polls are polls , as for a quick deal , not sure it's possible , one that lasts when in place might worth waiting for.
 
Patriot said:
The goal is for the war in Ukraine to end. That requires both Putin and Zelensky to agree to a cease fire deal. Both are going to have to give up something, but also feel like they are gaining something. Zelensky gives up Russian seized territory, but gains economic ties with the U.S./vested economic interest. Putin gives up further Ukraine incursion, but gains the territory Russia captured. Of the two, Putin will be the harder one to convince, thus he must not feel insulted by the U.S. There's the strategy, probably.
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So that vote was to appease the Russians ? A vote on the fact that Russia was the aggressor and invaded Ukraine ..... even the Chinese abstained on that one .
 
Melensdad said:
I am looking at history.

The Wagner Group was basically Putin's private assassination group and Trump literally killed them.
Russia was making money off of oil sales and Trump flooded the world market with cheap oil and almost bankrupted the country.

Trump was much harder on Russia than any President since Ronald Reagan when he destroyed the Soviet Union. Bush, Bush, Biden, Clinton or Obama ever thwart Russia? No. But Trump did.
Click to expand...
Wagner's , replacements are still in Africa doing business , in fact the leaders of these countries with "Wagner " presence voted with Russia , North Korea and the U.S all together at the U.N .
 
Melensdad said:
Good question.

US is not an actual military ally of Ukraine.

US is a minimal trading partner with Ukraine. But Ukraine's main exports of food, primarily went to Africa and their grains were lower price and lower quality than the European grains.

Hunter Biden, through his Burisma deal to sell access to the President, enriched his family fortunes but the nation, overall, does not have a lot of interests in Ukraine at the moment.

Trump proposes interests in their minerals, and offers a co-sharing where we go in with US companies to invest and develop and then share the profits. But that was pretty much blown up today by Zelensky.
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Whether that deal comes or not who knows , but no western business / company is going to invest their money into Ukraine unless it's security is addressed, whether western troops on the ground or sustained weapons supply.
 
J5 Bombardier said:
Whether that deal comes or not who knows , but no western business / company is going to invest their money into Ukraine unless it's security is addressed, whether western troops on the ground or sustained weapons supply.
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What people seem to miss is that, one, Putin will get to claim victory so his incentive will be nil. Two, Putin will be against Trump, so he knows he can't reinvade. Three, the whole of the EU will be arming during the next 3.5 years, and Ukraine will be armed. So there will be an actual, credible defense, especially considering that Ukraine will have experienced/battle hardened troops. So security comes from lots of weapons, improved overall EU forces, improved NATO forces, and add American companies on the ground with infrastructure and citizens that need to be protected and all of a sudden you have massive deterrence added to the security.
 
Melensdad said:
What people seem to miss is that, one, Putin will get to claim victory so his incentive will be nil. Two, Putin will be against Trump, so he knows he can't reinvade. Three, the whole of the EU will be arming during the next 3.5 years, and Ukraine will be armed. So there will be an actual, credible defense, especially considering that Ukraine will have experienced/battle hardened troops. So security comes from lots of weapons, improved overall EU forces, improved NATO forces, and add American companies on the ground with infrastructure and citizens that need to be protected and all of a sudden you have massive deterrence added to the security.
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"IF" and that what it hinges on , the Americans provide Ukraine with the necessary weapons over the course of the next 4 years or what ever it takes , to enable them to defend themselves , I agree . That is also the only way these American companies will invest as they have been burnt before when they worked in Russia and need the security
 
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You can "if" all day and all night but at some point people have to act.

Meanwhile, they are calling for Zelensky to be impeached.

eadaily.com

It's time to judge him: the deputy called on the Rada to decide on the impeachment of Zelensky: EADaily

EADaily, February 28th, 2025. Verkhovna Rada deputy Alexander Dubinsky demanded the immediate convening of an emergency meeting of parliament to decide on the impeachment of Volodymyr Zelensky. He said this in his statement published in the telegram channel.
eadaily.com eadaily.com
 
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Who is now pushing for Zelensky to be impeached?

Article here, but his words were also posted on X:
“The events of the past hours - the public humiliation of Zelensky at the White House, Trump’s acknowledgment of Zelensky's diplomatic failure, and Ukraine’s loss of unconditional U.S. support - have marked the final act of the regime's collapse,” he wrote. “But Zelensky has not only failed in foreign policy - he has driven the country into a state where anyone who disagrees with his course faces repression.”​
​
Dubinsky demanded an “emergency session of the Ukrainian Parliament” to initiate impeachment proceedings against Zelensky, citing the following reasons -​
​
"- the failure of foreign policy, which has led to Ukraine's international isolation and the loss of allied support.​
​
- a lost war, which is the result of incompetent leadership and catastrophic decisions.​
​
- violations of citizens' rights and the usurpation of power, manifested in the suppression of the opposition, persecution of dissenters, and authoritarian rule."​
​
Dubinsky urged fellow Members of Parliament to “stop wasting time” and act decisively.​
​
“Zelensky thought he could rule Ukraine through force. Now he has lost. Ukraine must decide - will it continue its freefall into the abyss, or will it begin the fight for true independence?” ​
 
J5 Bombardier said:
Not so sure about that " severe U.S backlash " to deter the Russians , if the mineral rights of the U.S are to be protected they'll have to ensure the Ukrainians are able to do it for them. These minerals the Russians would have no problem selling to others on the world market , just like their oil .
As for the Chinese , they are watching this play out , seeing America's response , if Russia comes out a "winner" in this , and weighing how many years of sanctions they would endure over invading Taiwan . After all that and when militarily ready they would invade , only a strong American presence may deter them .
As the future of NATO at this moment is in flux , many of these East European countries face the reality of the Russians , but Russia is incapable of any invasion until they rebuild their military , 5-10 years ? , gives Europe time to do the same.
Polls are polls , as for a quick deal , not sure it's possible , one that lasts when in place might worth waiting for.
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Military action should be, and usually is, the last resort. The U.S. can impose various sanctions on Russia, including freezing assets of individuals and companies, banning exports of technology, and restricting financial transactions with Russian banks. All of this, and more, hurts Russia's economy, and they are already hurting enough. That, probably more than the threat of violence, would keep Russia from invading Ukraine further.

As for China, if they were going to invade Taiwan, they would have already done it while Biden was president. They won't do it now that Trump is. And, they have too much to lose economically.

Europe has had the time to rebuild their military for decades. They just haven't because they've come to rely on the U.S. too much. As the U.S./Trump makes clear to them that we are not going to bail them out of their own messes, they'll be forced to rebuild their militaries.

"Waiting" for a perfect peace deal that "lasts" also means more U.S. treasure spent on an endless foreign war with little to nothing for the U.S. to show for it. Sound familiar? I think we're done with that. Trump is saying either end the war now or you're on your own.
 
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