An Old Cats Tale.....

[Mtn-Track]

This is the story on my 1953 Tucker 443 Sno-Cat that I've been working on for the last three years. This is only the beginning of what may be a long thread....

This photo was taken in 1953 at the Tucker factory. It's possible that this is my Sno-Cat since mine is identical to the one in the photo, but who knows. Believe me, Tucker made MANY sno-cats and very few of them were identical back in these days. The engine was and still is the original 251 Chrysler Industrial that was used in the Canadian Dodge M-37 and some other trucks back in the day. The serial number on the engine matches the engine ID number on the dash data tag. The rest of the drive train was also original from the factory.

The USBR bought this Cat new and it still had its USBR identification tag on the dash just above the Tucker data tag. It was factory omaha orange and they eventually painted everything red. And I do mean 'everything'!

The USBR eventually transfered it to our local Sheriff's Department Office of Emergency Services. Throughout the 1990's I was part of that organization and we used it for SAR mission's throughout the northern Colorado mountains. She would go almost anywhere, even fully loaded with up to eight (very cramped) people and a roof-rack full of gear.

 

[Mtn-Track]

The problem with a machine in this situation is that it's "on call" for emergencies all the time, no matter what the weather's doing. That also means that just because the snow is too deep in the area where it needs to go for road vehicles to access, it doesn't mean there is good snow for the lower part of the access.

Even though the county did an excellent job maintaining this old cat, it was constantly having track issues when they encountered rocks. The pontoons took their share of abuse also. Something had to change, so the county took over a Thiokol Spryte from the local office of USFS. The Thiokol took to a wider range of marginal snow conditions, but when the snow got really light and deep, the Tucker was greatly missed, especially since the Thiokol had a tendency to "push" snow and block the radiator!

So, the old Tucker just sat outside in the county yard and was considered a back-up unit for a couple of years. The maintence on it lapsed so it eventually was given to a local FD that expressed an interest in it, at first. The FD decided there was too much to deal with and it went to auction. Yep, I missed that auction and had no idea that old cat went up for sale!


It sold to a local guy that wanted it to access his cabin up in the hills during the winter. Unfortunately, he didn't know much about mechanical stuff and the cat also ended up being "the hill whore". Everyone with a cabin in the area had free use of it whenever they needed it. She started to die from lack of care and maintenance and went up for sale.

I went to take a look and I was REALLY disappointed in the condition. It still ran and drove but when I gave it a good shake it rocked back-and-forth A LOT. The frame was broken above the rear fifth-wheel and the pontoons/tracks were a mess. I had to walk away.

I got a call a couple of weeks later from the owner and he figured that since I had identified all the issues with it that he would dump the price and be done with it if I still wanted it.

Aquisition day!

I drove it off the mountain in February 2008!

 

[Doc]

Awesome Story. I look forward to following this thread as it grows.

 

[weatherby]

I second that, great story, I will be looking forward to this thread

 

[Mtn-Track]

Thank's guy's!

Once I got it home, I let the old cat sit for a couple of months while I tried to figure out what I was going to do and how I was going to it. During this time it did a wonderful job of marking its new-found territory all over my shop floor. Most of it came from the main seals and pan gasket on the engine.

Discovery #1: You can’t pull the oil pan off due to the front fifth-wheel and crossmember, you have to pull the engine.

Discovery #2: The engine and transmission are mounted as a single unit in the frame, so both have to come out together.

Discovery #3: The cat was basically built around the engine, transmission, and transfer case. The grill is welded on the front of the cat and the firewall was put in place before the exterior body was built!

Discovery #4: Since the frame was broken, the body ‘splayed-out’ over the rear axle. The only way to fix it was to gut the rear interior of the machine and pull it all back together.

Discovery #5: This was going to require a COMPLETE tear-down just to get it back to useable condition.

Discovery #6: Someone with a power drill and limited knowledge of the structural properties of un-annealed T6061 sheet aluminum should not be allowed access to a sno-cat. You can guess what a couple of 5 gal gas cans in racks will do when bolted to unsupported 1/16" aluminum. Not pretty. Oh, and they need to bolt on their latest find from the discount-bin in the K-Mart auto aisle? Hell yeah, just drill another hole in the sno-cat! The 20 holes already in the very near vicinity just won’t work to hang that $5 P.O.S you just had to have!

Let the games begin!

First of all, the human body does a wonderful job of regenerating skin that’s been damaged. Unless, of course, you consistently test the theory with your shins while working around an old steel-track tucker.
The tracks and pontoons were the first to come off, not only to limit blood loss, but to make the thing easier to move around the shop. The wheels and tires were from a late model Jeep Cherokee and bolted right up to the Dodge ½ ton spindles of the cat. I’d figure out what to do about the damaged pontoons later and I was fortunate enough to get some extra track and rollers that the county had for this cat.

 

[John - Canada]

Please keep this story coming, good luck with your efforts.

 

[e2spear]

Nice, can you drive it with the wheels on?

 

[fogtender]

Nice, can you drive it with the wheels on?

Yes, the wheels are bolted onto where the drive sprockets turn the tracks.

 

[Mtn-Track]

Now it's September 2009.
Lots of paint stripper, sanding, and welding of holes in the body and dash. The rear frame is repaired and gussets installed on the rear fifth-wheel mounts. Apparently the Fuchs Commonwealth Expedition had the same issue with the mounts on their 743's and had to gusset them as well. Since this cat had not had the modification done earlier it was one of the failed points on the frame that accounted for about 50% of the rock-and-roll of the body. The frame also had some 'sag' to it and I was able to take that out during the repairs.

Looking at the pontoons and tracks over the summer, I needed to come up with a new plan. Either replace them, rebuild them, or do something different all together. More on that later....

 

[Mtn-Track]

A common issue with these old cats was the tendency to throw the hood up against the roof. I have some good friends down the road that rebuild vintage planes and I got one of them to use their english wheel to clean up the wrinkles in the hood. You may have noticed the 'new' addition of the windshield visor. To me, it's really what the cat needed to break-up the blunt windshield line and add to the style of the era and the cats rounded nose. The visor is aluminum with stainless trim and came off a '53 Dodge Saratoga. I had to narrow it using the bolted joint in the middle, but I think it made a huge difference in how the cat looks.

I've done a number of 'original' restorations on various old vehicles, but since I've spent a fair amount of time in this cat I decided to do some upgrades yet retain as much of the originality as possible. Having a vintage cat is fun, but having one that's comfortable and reliable is even more fun.

 

[Mtn-Track]

Not sure what happened to the pic's on my first post, so here they are....

This is the story on my 1953 Tucker 443 Sno-Cat that I've been working on for the last three years. This is only the beginning of what may be a long thread....

This photo was taken in 1953 at the Tucker factory. It's possible that this is my Sno-Cat since mine is identical to the one in the photo, but who knows. Believe me, Tucker made MANY sno-cats and very few of them were identical back in these days. The engine was and still is the original 251 Chrysler Industrial that was used in the Canadian Dodge M-37 and some other trucks back in the day. The serial number on the engine matches the engine ID number on the dash data tag. The rest of the drive train was also original from the factory.

The USBR bought this Cat new and it still had its USBR identification tag on the dash just above the Tucker data tag. It was factory omaha orange and they eventually painted everything red. And I do mean 'everything'!

The USBR eventually transfered it to our local Sheriff's Department Office of Emergency Services. Throughout the 1990's I was part of that organization and we used it for SAR mission's throughout the northern Colorado mountains. She would go almost anywhere, even fully loaded with up to eight (very cramped) people and a roof-rack full of gear.

 

[TooManyIrons]

Yes please keep the story going....I have a 443 of the same vintage in similar or worse condition than yours....It has cracks in the frame around the rear 5th wheel and needs track and pontoon work too.

 

[pixie]

Great story and pictures

This is my favorite model of Tucker.
I love the visor !!

 

[NorthernRedneck]

Looking forward to seeing this this built up and looking new again.

 

[Mtn-Track]

Sno Dawg! Nice to see another '53! The front frame is closed off so it was either later than mine or someone modified it(?). At least the body on yours looks to be in better condition...
If you dont own a porta-power and a pile of jacks, chains, pullers, and clamps, you soon will to fix the frame!

So here's a pertinent diversion;

While I was looking at the pontoons, tracks, frame, and body work that all needed to be overhauled on the '53, I was starting to think I was going to end up building a new cat and just swap the data plate over. About that time Bill from Snotrans had dug up a 1958 Tucker 443 that was owned by the state of CO. It didn't run and hadn't in years, but the body and frame were very straight and there was a bonus! Sometime after 1978 the state had sent it back to Tucker to have the tracks and pontoons replaced with the rubber-belted tracks and boggie-wheel frames used on the new 1500-series cats!

Enter aquisition #2!

 

[Mtn-Track]

So I get the '58 Tucker home. Bill had taken the tracks off for transport (you're the man, Bill!) so all we had to do was back up to my shop and roll it off the trailer right next to my '53. Now it was time to start looking at the parts I was going to be able to salvage from the '58 parts cat. I knew one thing for sure though and that was I wanted the track system on my '53!

Then reality hit, and hit hard! NOT MUCH on the '58 was the same as the '53!!!

The engine in the '58 was a 265, not a 251. The transmission was still a 4-speed, but bigger. The transfer case was different. The third members were 8.75", not 8.25" like the '53. The windshield was bigger, thus the body was wider and all the side panels were slightly bigger. The fuel tank had about 4" of sludge and tar in it. The pivot rings on the axle housings (which turned out to be bent) were 1/4" larger diameter so the pontoon/boggie-wheel frame swap was probably out the window. The hydraulic system didn't leak, but had a higher pressure pump and tank system. Even the drive shafts and yokes were different and took completely different u-joints.

Well, hell! What do I do now? Maybe I can get the '58 to at least run so I can clean it up and sell it.....

I took out the fuel tank and spent a week cleaning it. Pressure washed it inside and out (most of the 3 layers of paint came off the nose too). Changed the fluids, plugs, fuel pump, and greased everything. Surprisingly, it actually fired right up but smoked like a train for several hours and blew oil out of the exhaust and all over the body. It didn't look good, but the longer it ran, the cleaner it got! Then suddenly it quit smoking all together! Probably had stuck rings that finally worked loose....

 

[Mtn-Track]

Decision time. I REALLY wanted the 1500-series tracks on my '53 so I had to find a way to make it all work. Lots of measuring and comparing, then I finally figured out what would work.

I jacked up both cats and removed the leaf spring bolts and drive shafts. I rolled the entire axle assemblies out from under both cats and swapped them. The only consistency here was the dimension of the leaf spring mounts on the fifth-wheel assemblies, even though the fifth-wheel castings and frame mounts were significantly different. I had to keep the drive shafts with each axle assembly, but had to swap out the yokes in the transfer cases. I spent some time working on the pontoons and tracks from the '53 and installed them on the '58.

Now the '58 was running and moving on it's original factory set-up again. I had to paint the nose to at least look better and also blend in the red pontoons from the '53. The black 'undercoating' interior looked much better painted gray. I replaced all the plexiglass windows and rubber, as well as all engine hoses, belts, and plug wires. The engine and radiator were replacements at one time and for some reason the fan was cut down and wasn't enough to keep it cool. I added an electric fan and auto temp switch to boost air-flow. Worked well. Time for some testing and tuning before I put it up for sale!

 

[Mtn-Track]

I made several trips with the '58 Tucker to make sure it would be reliable and safe. Remember, I used to be with Emergency Services and know better than to sell someone a running cat that could leave them straded in the snow due to mechanical issues. Not my way of doing things.

Along the way, I came across more of its history. I knew it belonged to the State of CO all its life, but not much more. Then I came across SafetyOne's site and a photo they had in their 'historical cats' page. Yep, it's the SAME cat and was taken circa 1960 on top of Berthoud Pass in CO. I called SafetyOne's owner and he had the original picture hanging in his office, given to him by the operator of the cat for the state. They burried the right rear track in a blow-hole and had to bring in another cat to pull it out. Among such things as the unique roof rack, antenna mount, rear lights, cargo strap brackets and such, I went an looked at the right rear corner of the cat in my shop and it had the track damage under the rear part of the body. Go figure.....

 

[Mtn-Track]

OK, so playtime was over.

I sold the '58 Tucker and got back to work on the '53. The axle housings from the '58 were bent so i had to get creative with some chains, jacks, a rosebud, and 6' section of I-beam. The state sure must have had the '58 loaded HEAVY at one time to do it, but the housings were both bent between the diff and leaf springs so the ends were about 1.5" out of true. Finally got them straightened, installed, and moved on. I put the Jeep wheels back on it and jumped on rebuilding the engine, transmission, and transfer case.

I like the look of the new Tuckers with the Omaha orange and gray drivetrain, so that's where I headed with it. The gray is "new Ford gray" ceramic high temp. I swapped over the hydraulic system also that meant I had to build a new adjustable engine bracket for the pump and relocate the mounting for the new alternator. The engine still had the generator and the pump was mounted to the frame of both cats. Oh, and the u-joints turned out to be a special order at $65/each.

 

[Mtn-Track]

One of the more ‘fun’ aspects of the old Tuckers was their total lack of insulation and the open area above the transfer case and steering linkage. This hole was normally covered with a thin aluminum plate but didn’t do much for keeping a cold draft from chilling the bottom of the old bench seat. There was also no heat in the rear part of the cat which made for some very unhappy passengers on cold outings. Well, I decided to fix a couple of these problems all at once and install a rear heater.

I plated off the hole around the steering linkage and the transfer case. I then made a duct that would divert the air down and under the fuel tank. There was about a 2" gap between the tank and the floor, so I had plenty of room to run a duct between the two (it’s the gray sheet metal in the center of the forward-facing photo). Now the air from an auxiliary heater under the drivers portion of the cab comes out about 2" above, and all the way across, the rear floor.

Another one of the comfort modifications that I mentioned earlier....

 

[weatherby]

Mtn-Track.....Your pics. show a very good job of restoring and upgrading to better methods/materials, also good explaining on your progress

 

[Mtn-Track]

Thanks Kevin!

The original paint job from Tucker in 1953 worked OK for a while, but the big problem was the lack of adhesion between the etching primer and the aluminum, then between the primer and the top coat. The only way to get it right this time was to completely strip ALL of it off. In some areas the primer had such a good hold that the aircraft stripper had a tough time penetrating it. Bring on the DA air-sander!

The last thing I wanted to do was completely hand-sand this thing, but it helped significantly to find the imperfections in my welds and little dents that needed to be taken out. This is probably what took the most time. Sanding, remove some dents, weld a few pinholes, sand some more, repeat, repeat, repeat......

Another thing I really didn’t want to do was remove all the skin. I went back-and-forth MANY times about just replacing all that was messed up with new metal, but the more I played with it the better I got with the results. These were built with screws and nuts and there was a million of them (maybe more... I didn’t count them). The screws that were threaded into the frame-work had decided to create a permanent bond and would only break off (that is, if you were lucky enough to get a turn on them without stripping the head of the slotted screw first). Some of them I HAD to remove and ended up using a drill and punch to get the remnants out of the hole, followed by a tap. The skin stayed on, but trying to clean around the little screw heads was the real PITA, so "plan B"...

I took one of the doors to a local car restoration blaster and he did some testing. He found that he could do it with real low pressure and walnut shells and not warp the aluminum. Soda blasting was what I really wanted, but nobody around here did it on this scale. The frame took more aggressive glass beads, but we got it done and ready for paint.

What you see is ALL the original aluminum skin that came from the factory in 1953. Saving all the metal was special to me and seemed to make all that labor worth it. I can say that, now!

The winch mount was another of my convenience upgrades. I've had this stuck in a few spots that took 8 of us to dig it out. With the winch it would have only taken 1. More lessions learned that I incorporated into the rebuild.

 

[Snowtrac Nome]

fantastic work

 

[TooManyIrons]

So far your saga has been truly inspiring....I am looking forward to your future installments. The body and frame look awesome!

 

[Mtn-Track]

Thanks Don and Sno Dawg!

I forgot to mention that the box hanging down from the frame in the back is another one of my additions. Besides the small area under the front seat that I will no longer have good access to, there is no place to store any spares on a Tucker 443. I originally installed the box as a tool/chain box, but that later changed to an auxiliary battery/small-tool compartment. With the narrow body on the nose an extra battery would have been a tight fit and I ended up with the heater under the front seat (alternate battery location I considered). It may look kind'a stupid hanging there right now, but you'll soon see how it comes out.

 

[300 H and H]

Really nice work. Doing it right the first time will pay off big in the end.

Regards, Kirk

 

[Mtn-Track]

Thank you for the kind words Kirk. I enjoy doing an original restoration, but this cat needed some "extras" to make it more useable and to hopefully last longer than it was originally intended to. I already have a couple of vehicles that I restored and they don't get out as much as I'd like. This one will be different.

I got the cat back from the blaster on November 9th, 2009 and it went straight to a friend of mine that owns a premier body shop. He worked on it "after hours" since the majority of their business in this economy has been insurance rebuilds. As he put it, "time is money and I need to run as much as I can through the shop as fast as I can to keep the doors open, so I'll do yours on my time". He pushed a Mustang GT500 restoration that he's had for 5 years to the side to work on the cat for me on some evenings and weekends, thusly I didn't get it back until January 6th, 2010.

In the end it took 7 coats of a one-step, self-etching, bi-metal, epoxy paint in the original Omaha Orange. There were several sandings between coats that helped add to the to the best part. He didn't see anywhere that he felt it needed body filler! Not even spot filler on my hole welds! I guess I did better than I thought on the prep....

It came out pretty good!

 

[NorthernRedneck]

BOIIIIINNNNGGGGG!!!!! Wow!!! Awesome job so far! Looks great!

 

[Mtn-Track]

Before the cat left the paint shop I had them ‘black-out’ the hood and the bottom of the sun visor. I then started the task of finally starting to assemble the cat again after a couple of years of frustrating work.

April 2010:
Most everything was pre-fit before it went to paint, so everything just bolted right up to its location. Since the next step was to create a new wire harness, I started to install all of the electrical components. I tore into the original instrument parts and rebuilt them all from the inside out. I polished the chrome bezels and cleaned all of the instrument faces. They came out looking at least as good as new.

The headlights are IPF’s from Australia and are dual-bulb; the larger area gives off a gold flood pattern and the smaller insert gives off a white/blue penetrating pattern. These are GREAT lights in white-outs! The winch is a 4500# mid-sized Mile Marker with remote. The rear heater was installed in its spot and I sealed ALL the interior/exterior seams with clear silicone. The battery is back in it’s rack and is one of two yellow-top Optima’s.

This round of upgrades;
Added a holder to the dash for my Garmin Rhino 530 GPS/Radio, two auxilary 12v power ports (one for a handheld spotlight and whatever, the other for the GPS/Radio), New stainless knobs/cables from an early 1950's Ford truck, a 4000RPM tach, and heated side mirrors from a late-model Jeep YJ with orange LED marker lights. The side steps are polished aluminum and bolted to brackets that were installed before sandblasting (they replaced some made out of rebar that can be seen in the early photo's). The new roof strobe is a basic high-output unit that is in the same spot as a rotator that was previously installed and knocked off by a limb (that one wasn't me for a change).

 

[Mtn-Track]

Laying out the wiring.....
The starter and winch are hooked directly to the battery, but All of the remaining power that runs the cat first goes through a 200amp main power relay (black unit that looks like a coil). That way there’s no chance of having something left "on" to drain the batteries when the ignition is not on. The same can be done with a manual main cut-off switch, but this is passive and idiot(me)-proof. If it ever fails, all you do is move the input cable from one terminal to the other one.

The rest of the lighting and other high-power components are run through relays and fuses in a circuit board that I built out of off-the-shelf components. When it’s done, the circuit board will be attached to the inside of the firewall behind the dash on a fold-down hinge.

All of the auxiliary lighting for the interior and exterior are controlled by a digital unit mounted on the overhead console. After the wiring harness was done, I pulled it out and taped it up with rubber 3M high-voltage tape, not vinyl electrical tape. It’s also all aircraft-grade wire....

I rebuilt the roof rack with a front extension/guard for the overhead driving lights (smaller IPF's) and the corner flood lights, rear flood and tail lights, and rear flashers. In the process I added brackets on the sides for an axe and a shovel.