-
Please be sure to read the rules and adhere to them. Some banned members have complained that they are not spammers. But they spammed us. Some even tried to redirect our members to other forums. Duh. Be smart. Read the rules and adhere to them and we will all get along just fine. Cheers. :beer: Link to the rules: https://www.forumsforums.com/threads/forum-rules-info.2974/
What's Up With Diesel?
- Thread starter BoneheadNW
- Start date
RedRocker
Active member
When the economy collapses cause none of us can afford to drive to work.
ddrane2115
Charter Member
right where the Americans say, enough, and the tanks set FULL for a few days, then you will see them begging you to buy it.........tell them no, the bus is easier, better, cheaper and you dont have to buy their overpriced diesel...............
or you can vote for a change this year..............hillarious wins, gas is 5.00, bama wins, 6.00, his rag heads need the money, mcpain wins, and who knows.
Nader or a 3rd party wins, one that is NOT OWNED by the oil companies and you will see it at 2.00 again.
California
Charter Member
Guys, stick your heads up out of your foxholes and look around.
Competition for energy by China and India would continue to drive the price up even if we reduced our demand by some major percentage.
It won't get cheaper.
If your goal is to reduce your cost of living, then using less energy will help. But the price per gallon/btu/bbl whatever won't fall if US demand levels off.
These other countries will take up the slack as their citizens step up their per capita energy consumption to approach our levels.
US boycotts won't make much difference.
Competition for energy by China and India would continue to drive the price up even if we reduced our demand by some major percentage.
It won't get cheaper.
If your goal is to reduce your cost of living, then using less energy will help. But the price per gallon/btu/bbl whatever won't fall if US demand levels off.
These other countries will take up the slack as their citizens step up their per capita energy consumption to approach our levels.
US boycotts won't make much difference.
Dargo
Like a bad penny...
Yeesh! I got a quote for a geothermal system for both of my houses and both barns. The way I have it figured I'd break even for the costs when I'm about 106 years old. 
That really sounds like a great way to go, but the initial costs are going to have to come down before it is widely accepted. I think it is one of the most efficient methods to heat and cool and is obviously renewable. The estimate for the geothermal systems and a standby generator sized to allow me to run everything if the power is out was over 70k.
That really sounds like a great way to go, but the initial costs are going to have to come down before it is widely accepted. I think it is one of the most efficient methods to heat and cool and is obviously renewable. The estimate for the geothermal systems and a standby generator sized to allow me to run everything if the power is out was over 70k.
Tractors4u
Active member
No, not really. The personal diesel fuel purchased vs the dielsel fuel purchased for industrial use is a drop in the bucket. They know the 18 wheelers are going have to buy, so they can jack it up as high as they want. I drive a diesel pick up and I know how bad it stings to fill it up. I realize however, that there is no bus that I can ride to work, parking my truck will not get the prices any lower. I knew when I bought it that it was not going to get the MPG of a Prius either.
REDDOGTWO
Unemployed Veg. Peddler
Can you tell me where you obtained the future gasoline figures for each candidate? Which ragheads does Obama have?
Are there any facts to base your remarks on or are the just pure biased conjecture?
ddrane2115
Charter Member
it was tongue in cheek of course, but bushy being an oil man does not want to see it go down............he is thinking of the clown he sees in the mirror.
as for rag head, he could care less
if we told them no thanks we have our own, makes sense to get our own if we are having trouble with pricing of theirs. Now clinton tied up the oil fields when he was there, whos to think hillarious would change that.
Oh and we dont sell ours we use it for inside our borders only
ddrane2115
Charter Member
bushy = oil man
no he does not directly, but if he would get some balls, get off his butt and open what clinton closed and stop the bs then we might see 2 bucks a gallon again.
someone said 25.00 a barrel to get it out of the ground, if we did that ourselves and produced gas at a per barrel rate of even 60.00 then that would be good right?
I am meaning the govt do it, not the oil companies, take over some refineries and start producing for us. The major oil can shove it, and it wont take long to get them back in line........
Tractors4u
Active member
Absolutely no way. When the government gets it's hands on anything the effiecency rate goes way down. Having the government run it will not bring prices down. Look at the U.S. Postal Service. When was the last time the price of a stamp went down?
Fact #1 (again) - Oil prices are set by commodity speculators. IE you and your IRA's, 401k's and other investments.
Fact #2 - for the past 5 years (at least) diesel has been 20% more than gas. Now diesel is $4.10 and gas is $3.30 (here in WI). Simply calculated 3.3/4.1=.8 or 80% gas to diesel ratio. Nothing new here, just higher prices.
$2.00 fuel is a pipe dream never to be seen again. Ever.
If that communist Nader is elected,
not only has hell frozen over, but I'll bet his ties to the eco-nazis will guarantee fuel $10/gallon.
Fact #2 - for the past 5 years (at least) diesel has been 20% more than gas. Now diesel is $4.10 and gas is $3.30 (here in WI). Simply calculated 3.3/4.1=.8 or 80% gas to diesel ratio. Nothing new here, just higher prices.
$2.00 fuel is a pipe dream never to be seen again. Ever.
If that communist Nader is elected,
not only has hell frozen over, but I'll bet his ties to the eco-nazis will guarantee fuel $10/gallon.
ddrane2115
Charter Member
Dont worry guys, I have not went overboard, but do wish that someone with some concern for Americans would take the reins.
I have no trouble with the mail service BTW. I love sending back offers I get from CC companies etc with lots of weight to them..........at postage paid/due.
RedRocker
Active member
Fact #1 (again) - Oil prices are set by commodity speculators. IE you and your IRA's, 401k's and other investments.
Fact #2 - for the past 5 years (at least) diesel has been 20% more than gas. Now diesel is $4.10 and gas is $3.30 (here in WI). Simply calculated 3.3/4.1=.8 or 80% gas to diesel ratio. Nothing new here, just higher prices.
$2.00 fuel is a pipe dream never to be seen again. Ever.
If that communist Nader is elected,
Diesel has only exceeded gas here in the last year or so, before that it was below or the same as regular.
Tractors4u
Active member
I bought my first diesel in 1996. The lowest I remember seeing diesel sell for at that time was $1.06 at a truck stop outside of Elizabethtown Kentucky.
When I left for Iraq in August of 2006 diesel fuel was going for about $2.75. When I got back 1 year later it was selling for about the same. In the last 8 months it has increased by $1.00. Something is seriously wrong. It all started after hurricanes Katrina and Rita. I heard that there was refinary damage and damage to some rigs in the Gulf of Mexico. It was supposed to be a temporary increase because of the shortage. Temporary my butt, it has been going up steadily. In the summer they say that the price goes up because of vacation travel and then in the winter it goes up because of the use of home heating oil. Why do they even bother making excuses anymore?
ddrane2115
Charter Member
cause America buys it, AGAIN, dont buy foreign oil, use ours......it is cheaper........let them have it all, drown in the stuff, they will come back begging...............
or we could all just cut back say 10% of our driving..................
or we could take the Iraq oil wells as ours, they have plenty, and we have helped them so much.
or we could all just cut back say 10% of our driving..................
or we could take the Iraq oil wells as ours, they have plenty, and we have helped them so much.
RedRocker
Active member
I understand why it all goes up, just never figured out why diesel became
higher than premium when for decades it was cheaper than regular. It's my understanding that each barrel produces X amount of several products and diesel is cheaper to refine than gasoline. I just figured we're being prepped for a bunch of high mileage diesels that are coming down the pike in the future, heaven forbid the consumer get a break by driving a small diesel that gets 60 mpg without paying through the nose for fuel to offset the screwing we were getting at the gas pump.
higher than premium when for decades it was cheaper than regular. It's my understanding that each barrel produces X amount of several products and diesel is cheaper to refine than gasoline. I just figured we're being prepped for a bunch of high mileage diesels that are coming down the pike in the future, heaven forbid the consumer get a break by driving a small diesel that gets 60 mpg without paying through the nose for fuel to offset the screwing we were getting at the gas pump.
I am not sure about this but,
Diesel, heating fuel, and jet fuel are very close to each other in the refining process.
This has been one of the coldest winters requiring more heating fuel, more people are driving diesels than ever before, and commercial air traffic is way up. All leading to less available refining capacity.
But in the end, it all goes back to the speculators on the business.
Diesel, heating fuel, and jet fuel are very close to each other in the refining process.
This has been one of the coldest winters requiring more heating fuel, more people are driving diesels than ever before, and commercial air traffic is way up. All leading to less available refining capacity.
But in the end, it all goes back to the speculators on the business.
RedRocker
Active member
That would explain why it's more expensive, but not why it's higher than premium when it was below regular. If you get X gallons of gas and x gallons of diesel from a barrel of oil, what has changed to make diesel higher than gas? It should either all go up or all go down in proportion I'd think.
That would be a good theory, until traders get in and jack the price all around so they make a profit off of us.
The price of a commodity has not much to do with the cost to make or convert it. I.E. the total average cost to extract oil is only about 24 bucks a barrel.
Commodity prices are set by the traders. And none want to take a bath. Unless somebody else sells wholesale at a much lower price and floods the market, there is no incentive for speculators to trade at lower prices. As a producer, a bystander in this whole thing, you gladly take the money to the bank, knowing full well this won't last long, and that someday the commodity will sell less than it costs to obtain it.
The price of a commodity has not much to do with the cost to make or convert it. I.E. the total average cost to extract oil is only about 24 bucks a barrel.
Commodity prices are set by the traders. And none want to take a bath. Unless somebody else sells wholesale at a much lower price and floods the market, there is no incentive for speculators to trade at lower prices. As a producer, a bystander in this whole thing, you gladly take the money to the bank, knowing full well this won't last long, and that someday the commodity will sell less than it costs to obtain it.
When the EPA mandated cleaner diesel (ultra-low sulfur), 2 big things happened.
1. The cost to produce the diesel went up.
2. It then met the requirements of European and other areas.
A lot of our refined diesel is being exported. Supply/demand and the increased cost to make it ultra-low sulfur is why the price is high.
RedRocker
Active member
Is sulfur something they add in or refine out? I always thought it was strange that un-leaded was higher than leaded regular back in the day. Charge you more not to put the lead in. LOL It would be interesting to know if it really does cost more to make the low sulfur stuff.
California
Charter Member
Sulphur is a contaminant pumped up with the crude. 'Sweet' crude, naturally low sulphur, historically always got a higher price per barrel.
I don't know about Texas and the Gulf, but the crude from Venezuela is high sulphur and needed more costly refining than for example Pennsylvania sweet crude, to get the sulphur down to marketable levels. I think Saudi Arabia's crude is also Sweet, I'm not sure.
The refining process to get the sulphur out of diesel also reduces its lubricity, so a lubricity additive has to be put back in. I think this was learned after costly damage from the low-sulphur conversion in 1993.
And a bit of trivia - Valero is ahead of the game, they were the first to buy sulphur reduction technology and are now ready to refine whatever they can get, while some other refineries are limited by their sulphur-extraction capability.
I think the reason Unleaded cost more than Lead-added was because it was made from a higher grade input, while lead was a cheap way to boost octane of low grade feedstock.
I don't know about Texas and the Gulf, but the crude from Venezuela is high sulphur and needed more costly refining than for example Pennsylvania sweet crude, to get the sulphur down to marketable levels. I think Saudi Arabia's crude is also Sweet, I'm not sure.
The refining process to get the sulphur out of diesel also reduces its lubricity, so a lubricity additive has to be put back in. I think this was learned after costly damage from the low-sulphur conversion in 1993.
And a bit of trivia - Valero is ahead of the game, they were the first to buy sulphur reduction technology and are now ready to refine whatever they can get, while some other refineries are limited by their sulphur-extraction capability.
I think the reason Unleaded cost more than Lead-added was because it was made from a higher grade input, while lead was a cheap way to boost octane of low grade feedstock.
Gasoline 19.3
Distillate Fuel Oil (Inc. Home Heating and Diesel Fuel) 9.83
Kerosene Type Jet Fuel 4.24
Residual Fuel Oil 2.10
Petroleum Coke 2.10
Liquified Refinery Gases 1.89
Still Gas 1.81
Asphalt and Road Oil 1.13
Petrochemical Feed Supplies 0.97
Lubricants 0.46
Kerosene 0.21
Waxes 0.04
Aviation Fuel 0.04
Other Products 0.34
Processing Gain 2.47
Source: EIA March 2004 Data What comes out of a barrel of oil from gas buddie
Distillate Fuel Oil (Inc. Home Heating and Diesel Fuel) 9.83
Kerosene Type Jet Fuel 4.24
Residual Fuel Oil 2.10
Petroleum Coke 2.10
Liquified Refinery Gases 1.89
Still Gas 1.81
Asphalt and Road Oil 1.13
Petrochemical Feed Supplies 0.97
Lubricants 0.46
Kerosene 0.21
Waxes 0.04
Aviation Fuel 0.04
Other Products 0.34
Processing Gain 2.47
Source: EIA March 2004 Data What comes out of a barrel of oil from gas buddie
Bulldog1401
Anybody seen my marbles?
Diesel is now $4.49 in parts of New York....
