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Welcome Liberals and Conservatives

Like Colin Powell. The man says, "I owe everything I've achieved to affirmative action", then declares himself a Republican. How can he live with himself?

Simple,
a republican views affirmative action as those (WHO QUALIFY) should be able to obtain a given profession. The democrats view it as those of different color, creed, or foreign language regardless of qualifications,,,,automatically qualify...
 
LarryRB said:
The democrats view it as those of different color, creed, or foreign language regardless of qualifications,,,,automatically qualify...

No. That is the Fox News description of a Democrat. You are being led down a trail of misdirection, misquoting and general misguidance, and it is deliberate.

When John Kennedy first started to think of running for office, his support people were worried he couldn't be elected because he wasn't liberal enough. These things go in cycles. Sooner or later, and I happen to believe that it will be sooner, the American people will discover that the emperor is naked and will switch back again. There is the possibility that the Dems will then lie about the Repubs like the Repubs are now doing to the Dems, but quite frankly, historical evidence shows that the Dems are never very good at being as nasty as the Repubs.
 
OkeeDon said:
There is the possibility that the Dems will then lie about the Repubs like the Repubs are now doing to the Dems


:confused: Seriously, both parties do a damn good job of being disingenuous and I think it is reasonably fair to say that the Dems have the lead in this via manipulation of most of the press (FOX being the legitimate exception to that statement. Further Rush Limbaugh-type talk shows don't count as the press)


OkeeDon said:
but quite frankly, historical evidence shows that the Dems are never very good at being as nasty as the Repubs.

:eek: Not very good at vilinizing and lying and destroying other people. Surely you jest. Oh wait, you probably are serious, the Dems use their lapdog talking heads and their fork tongued advisors to do the real dirty work . . . it allows the actual politicians to have some level of distance from the verbal attacks.
 
No. That is the Fox News description of a Democrat. You are being led down a trail of misdirection, misquoting and general misguidance, and it is deliberate.
---------------------------------------------------------
You have me confused Don. Your own party member, Mr Ted Kennedy is always here spouting , X number of blacks, X number of Spanish, X number female, X number downtrodden.. Again, I don't know what your hang up with Fox news is, however, democrats want specific numbers in various levels for affirmative action.. It was originally designed to allow anyone who (qualifies) regardless of color, creed, religion, or?,, for an equal shot.. Has nothing to do with the numbers game..
 
Larry, you're confusing quotas with affirmative action. There are some old line Dems who support quotas. Ted Kennedy may be one of them; I've never heard him on the subject. But, even Jesse Jackson and Al sharpton have pretty much disassociated themselves from quotas. That's Old Democrat thinking.

Affirmative action is something entirely different, and has nothing to do with quotas. However, one thing is absolutely certain, the Bush administration is firmly against affirmative action, even taking part in lawsuits to stop it.

I don't think it's worth trying to explain affirmative action; you probably wouldn;t believe me, anyway. Suffice to say that if you have never had much contact with folks who have are disadvantaged in various ways, you'll never understand the need for some form of affirmative action.

As for my hangup with Fox News, that should be obvious; even Bob_S knows what I'm talking about. For anyone who honestly believes that "Fair and Balanced" crap, there's no hope for them to understand the real world.

Bob, there have been left-leaning networks, but there has never been as blatantly biased a network as Fox News. There have been amusing left radicals, like James Carville (one of my favorite characters), Al Franken, Al Sharpton (who has a real wit) and so forth, but even Michael Moore could never be as venomous and hateful as Ann Coulter. There are no comparisons between the worst of the right and the worst of the left; the right are simpy dirty, rotten, selfish b--t--ds.

Which brings up one of my favorite topics. Everyone has heard how liberal the media is. Ignoring how badly the media treated Bill Clinton, let's accept that statement as being true. However, let's separate the media into serious and professional reporters on the one hand and entertainers and news readers on the other. I think you'll find that if there is a liberal bias, it rests within the serious and professional news hounds, and lets the entertainers like O'Reilly and Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh carry the freight for the right.

Now, let's consider those liberal news reporters. By defintion, they are trained and experienced in being observers. For the most part, they strive to be objective reporters. But, because they're human, their personal bias sometimes becomes obvious. And, as accused, their personal bias is most often liberal. Now, why do you think that is? Is it because only fuzzy thinkers get into the business of news reporting in the first place? I doubt it. I believe that the reason is that trained and experienced observers begin to discern a difference, and begin to show a preference for the side that makes most sense. Therefore, it's obvious to me that the majority of the news media will be liberal.

The same is true of academics. Academia is largely accused of being liberal, as well. It can be reasonably argued that academia consists of the most thoroughly educated and deepest thinkers our society can produce. It follows that in the process of education, research and logic, that academics will gravitate to the side that makes the most sense. Therefore, it's obvious to me that the majority of academics will be liberal.

Business, by it's very nature, is designed to be self-serving and, some would say, even greedy. Certainly, their own profit is is most important motive they have. I know; I was a very small businessman for a number of years, and that's the way a businessman has to think if they are to be successul. Therefore, it's obvious to me that a businessman will be conservative.

The same is true of the rich. Regardless of whether they worked hard for it or were handed it on a silver platter, the basic instinct of the rich is to preserve what they have, and prevent anyone else from getting any of it. Therefore, it's obvious to me that the rich will be conservative.

The thing that gives me hope is that some business people, most often among the newer businesses like those in silicon valley, and some rich people, especially those with a tradition of public service, like the Kennedys, will be liberal despite the pressures of their positions to conserve what they have.

And, that brings us to the very roots of the words "conservative" and "liberal". One can reduce it to mayonnaise. If one is conservative, their sandwich will be dry and tasteless because they conserved the condiment. But, if one is liberal with the spread, the sandwich is juicy and zesty with taste. Take your pick.
 
reading your last post has brought me to the point that I am not going to participate in any more discussion on this political forum.. I do not agree with the vast majority of what you write and therefore, before I start getting upset and writing return responses, I am bowing out...

As far as the affirmative action.. (I AM) one of those numbers myself,.. I hate to tell you that Kerry first, then Kennedy, way back when, forced Boston to pass a law that all VN disabled veterans automatically become AF certified,. Somewhere I think, I may still have that certificate... Giving me a certificate in affirmative action is like opening the water main inside the alka seltzer factory.. For the vast majority of vets, and/or I would say 99% plus,,in Mass, it is totally useless and more importantly, misuse again of another gvt project. And again I tell you, Kerry/Kennedy are hard into numbers, so many blacks, spanish, vets now, those with various disabilities.. I was fortunate for a short time in that after being released, I bought a tractor-trailer unit and hauled military trade shows and various computers for different dpt's of government... As I said, I am light years away from any affir-action or need there of... Again, blatant misuse of another program gone wrong.. I am no longer a Mass resident, however, I should write a book about how a state that is 70% registered and more closer to 88 % are democrats, and how Mass democrats operate... I understand others in other parts of the country think differently.. Too bad to, before long there will be nothing here of any significance,.. They are down to service related jobs, some high tech and not much more... Yes sir, keep taxing all business big and small, so one can finance the next wacko idea and in the meantime, drive all business out. Great way to live, with this type mindset..
 
LarryRB said:
reading your last post has brought me to the point that I am not going to participate in any more discussion on this political forum.. I do not agree with the vast majority of what you write and therefore, before I start getting upset and writing return responses, I am bowing out...

:D :confused: :D :confused:
 
OkeeDon said:
The same is true of the rich. Regardless of whether they worked hard for it or were handed it on a silver platter, the basic instinct of the rich is to preserve what they have, and prevent anyone else from getting any of it. Therefore, it's obvious to me that the rich will be conservative.

And, that brings us to the very roots of the words "conservative" and "liberal". One can reduce it to mayonnaise. If one is conservative, their sandwich will be dry and tasteless because they conserved the condiment. But, if one is liberal with the spread, the sandwich is juicy and zesty with taste. Take your pick.


Don, I am obviously a liberal by your definition. I hope there is a 'big tent' to hold in all the condiments I bring with me. Oh wait, it doesn't have to be so big anymore, the school that calls with any of their needs got some ketchup from me to be used as a vegetable during hot lunch, and the folks in New Orleans, well I'm spreading something pretty thick down there, but they eat strange things so I don't know what to call it, and the new plaque that the local Police Commissioner brought over to me to hang on my wall just 2 days ago, well that was for giving them a bit of mustard to spice up this boring town and I took it as a high compliment when he said he'd never met anyone like me before, now the real question is what is all that other stuff I spread like the county sherriff who stopped by yesterday, or the police department in Louisiana that I adopted and sent a truckload of food, snacks, toys, and personal care items to. And the foundation I just set up in Washington DC to help aid future disasters . . .




:confused:
 
Oh, heck, Bob, I've known for some time that you were a closet liberal. For one thing, youi spend entirely too much time with your family to be a good conservative -- most of them are still in the age of "children should be seen but not heard" and "a wife's place is in the kitchen". You're far too considerate towards your employees. And, yes, there are all those do-gooder activities. Actions speak louder than words.

Somehow, though, you've gotten confused enough to actually support the party which does not support your actions or, if it does claim to support them, does so entirely through words, not actions.

By your own words, there is plenty in both major parties which you do not support. Also by your words, you support the GOP because you feel it is the lesser evil. It is only on that account that you and I disagree; when it comes to action, not just words, most of what I see from the GOP is evil incarnate. I'd rather err on the side of compassion; even if the way in which the Dems are helping people is wrong, at least their purpose is to help people, not help themselves.

My guess is that you are one of the growing majority who would love to see a new party that embraces the best of both the GOP and the Dems. Historically, such as third party has little chance of success, although it has happened -- but not since the 19th Century when the nation was still young. Instead, one or the other of the major parties tends to re-make themselves.

The GOP went through such an evolution in the '70s and '80s, becoming far more conservative and allowing minority groups such as fundamentalist Christians and racist militia groups to gain more power in the party. That's when I swore off them, forever, or until they cameback to their senses.

My perception is that the Dems are in the early stages of such an evolution now, the movement that is called the New Democrats. It is much more moderate, much more centrist, and has embraced (and even co-opted) many of the GOP's better ideas. The New Democrats are fiscally more conservative than the current GOP. The New Democrats have embraced such ideas as intelligent welfare reform, law and order and homeland security and worked diligently to put them into action, not just words like the GOP.

The GOP is hung up on the Old Democrats, still worried more about Ted Kennedy than Barack Obama or Evan Bayh.

So far, I have not said much about the "C" word, because in this group, I don't think I could maintain an objective discussion of the Clinton administration's accomplishments without it degenerating into some phoney morality play. I will say that Bill Clinton was the first New Democrat, and I will further say that it is my strong impression that all of us were better off at the end of his administration than we are now. Honest observers of the politcal spectrum know that Bill Clinton was far from a traditional "Old Democrat" liberal.
 
Don, my wife is a great cook and my kid talks way too much:eek:


I will agree with you that Clinton was not a traditional liberal, I will even agree that he did some very good things. And while the Dems may well be on the cusp of an evolution within their own party, there are many old fashioned liberal Democrats that control things. And guys like Mr.Kerry still fit squarely into the old-liberal-Ted Kennedy style of liberal. Obama & J.Jackson Jr have been fun to watch as they are from my neighbor state. They may well be New Dems, but they sing right from the old Dem's party hymnal line when called upon by Masters Kennedy, Biden, Schumer, Feinstein, et.al.
 
OkeeDon said:
So far, I have not said much about the "C" word, because in this group, I don't think I could maintain an objective discussion of the Clinton administration's accomplishments without it degenerating into some phoney morality play. I will say that Bill Clinton was the first New Democrat, and I will further say that it is my strong impression that all of us were better off at the end of his administration than we are now. Honest observers of the politcal spectrum know that Bill Clinton was far from a traditional "Old Democrat" liberal.

I think the general opinon of the "common man" was completely summarized by a comment I once saw on the internet.

"If all it takes for this country to have a good economy, and for me to have a good job is for the president to be getting a blow job in the Oval Office, then where are my kneepads?"

In other words, most people don't really care about the specific idealologies of this Democrat or that Republican, they just want to see results.

Dave
 
B_Skurka said:
Obama & J.Jackson Jr have been fun to watch as they are from my neighbor state. They may well be New Dems, but they sing right from the old Dem's party hymnal line when called upon by Masters Kennedy, Biden, Schumer, Feinstein, et.al.

You of all people should know how the game is played. The newcomers have to put in a period of toeing the line before they can break free. They have to first avoid getting bounced out, then wait for atttrition to open the ranks, before they can spread their own wings. I believe they have their eyes firmly on the goal, and are building their strength and advancing their seniority with every subsequent retirement. I can forgive them singing from the same hymnal while they're in Sunday School as long as they assert themselves when they become the Church Council.

I may be a bit ahead of the curve, but I see what I see. These guys are different. The best part is, after the GOP suffers a major melt-down due to their current policies, much like the Dems back in the 70's and 80's, there may be a new, young crop or Republicans who can return their party to their former glory. I see only good days ahead for America, once they get through the current travesty.
 
DaveNay said:
In other words, most people don't really care about the specific idealologies of this Democrat or that Republican, they just want to see results.

Dave


Dave, I will totally agree with you on that and add that I don't think most people understand the ideology of either party, including many of the respective party leaders.


Don, if the new guys can sweep out the old guys when they get on the 'church council' then they won't forgivness from you or me.:D
 
B_Skurka said:
Don, if the new guys can sweep out the old guys when they get on the 'church council' then they won't <need> forgivness from you or me.

My profile says I'm a Trustful & Tolerant Liberal Utopian Idealist; you can add Optimist to that as well. I'm willing to forgive them now even as they transgress.
 
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