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Unreasonable or Tough Love

Melensdad

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
I've been subsidizing my sister-in-law's life for the past 4 years.

Now my wife and I are buying some appliances for an apartment for her. They include a dishwasher, range and refrigerator.

My wife asked me how much could be spent. I went to Lowes and in about 5 minutes found the 3 lowest priced appliances they had on the floor, snapped photos of them with the prices included, and emailed those to my wife. Then I told her that I got a 10% discount coupon from Lowes so I would only spend the amount on the sticker, LESS 10% and that should be delivered + installed.

I don't care where she buys the stuff from, but I used Lowes, along with their discount coupon, to set the prices as the MAXIMUM that I will pay. Every penny above that comes out of my sister-in-laws pocket. And she has no money.

Now she is the product of an upper-middle class upbringing and is used to things like lights in the freezer that come on when the door is opened. That's not included on the unit I picked out. She's also used to ice makers and cold water dispensers built into the refrigerator; again those are not included.

I'm not even sure the gas burners on the range I picked out are self-lighting.

So am I being an unreasonable cheap bastard or, after 4 years of helping her out, and a continued safety net promised by my wife (did I mention I gave her a part-time minimum wage job too), is 'downgrading' her amenities reasonable in that she may actually DESIRE BETTER and therefore figure out a way to get a better job, or work more hours, or utilizer her edu-ma-ca-shun (she's got at least 1 masters degree) to better her own life? Clearly I'm not tossing her to the curb but I see no real reason to support her to the level at which she has become accustomed if she is not willing to go forth like a little birdie and try to fly on her own.

And I should mention that I actually like my sister-in-law. I'm not looking to punish her. But I'm not looking give her a totally free ride on life either.
 
Bob, a free fridge without a light in the freezer is better than none at all, IMO.
You're doing more than I would after 4 years.
 
tell her she's not married to me because that's how i shop for my family i get about 3 hours a week to watch tv so that dosn't justify a flat screen tv in my opinion if the family wants a flat screen save up all the candy money movie money and walk instead of wanting a ride every where than i might think about bells and whistles
 
Oh Man ..... I am not that good of a person . 4 years ????? And now she is getting new appilances too ? Where do I sign on at .


I don't want to be a jerk but I hope in 4 more years , your SIL is doing better . Somehow I have a bad feeling that the light and icemaker is the least of your worries .
Good Luck with the outcome .
You are more than being fair .
 
Yes you are being a cheap, penny pinching bastard, excuse me if I paraphrase your words, but are you being unreasonable? I think not.

It's always difficult when dealing with family and I don't know the circumstances that brought her under your "protection" in the first place but I think that her continued reliance on your generosity (for 4 years) is a calculated decision on her part.

I wouldn't think of offering you advice, do what you have to do. Every family is different but in mine, I'd be doing roughly what you are doing, only I'd have done it a lot sooner.
 
Been there myself Bob though not with a sister in law but kids and grand kids. In all honesty I don't think that is unreasonable at all. It is bad enough that I have paid their bills from time to time but still cheaper than outfitting an apartment with appliances. In laws and kids even grown ones never seem to go away either.
 
First off Kudos to you MD & no disrespect meant but isn,t that kind of what the problem is today with our government ? If you help people to long they become dependent , lazy or whatever you want to call it & will never make an effort to fend for theirselves . I,m just asking What is the difference ?

Thats great that you can afford to do it & willing to do so , but sometimes you do have to make folks realize what the real world is really like & no better way then them experiencing it for themselves . Just sayin :wink:
 
Kind of a unrelated Question ,but I never saw an apartment that did not have a stove and refrig already in it ?
 
Adillo303 said:
I have a question. Are you being pressured to "do better"?
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Well not yet. My wife realizes we are being generous and she knows I'm sort of fed up. I don't expect any pressure on this, but there may be some push for a more generous Christmas???



EastTexFrank said:
I'd be doing roughly what you are doing, only I'd have done it a lot sooner.
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My wife has held me back a bit. My sister-in-law made claims of moving out and doing some things and even set some dates. Those came and went and that prolonged this whole thing. Then, despite S-I-L objections I laid down the law and began making the decisions. My wife has not argued with me at all regarding this and seems to be in agreement with me. Not to say there have not been some discussions, but I think she is finally glad that she is no longer dealing with her sister's 'choices' but rather seeing me directing actions and setting timetables.




BigAl said:
Kind of a unrelated Question ,but I never saw an apartment that did not have a stove and refrig already in it ?
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I'm building the apartment. I've also already laid down a rent schedule that escalates every 6 months. So I'm giving her a hand up, that currently includes a hand out, but the hand out is being 'retracted' over the course of 18 months.
 
Like others have said .... you've put up already with more than I feel I could have.

But isn't it your garage / apartment? If a service call is needed or if she moved out wouldn't you be the one left with the appliances? I'm afraid getting the cheapest will result in higher maintenance costs and shorter overall life of the appliance. If it were me and I found I could spend a little more and get appliances that I could live with if I had to, it would at least investigate that route and see what that would cost me.
 
Doc said:
But isn't it your garage / apartment? If a service call is needed or if she moved out wouldn't you be the one left with the appliances?
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She will be responsible for the repairs. Her problem. If she moves out then my obligations end, along with the financial drain.

As for the issue of moving out and me being stuck with it, that would be FINE WITH ME, we have wanted a real guest house for quite a while. So guest would have private quarters when staying with us instead of staying inside our home, which is how we host out of town visitors currently.

And if she moves out then I'll equip the quest quarters as I see fit, not necessarily from a minimalist standpoint of providing only the very basics in life.





Cowboy said:
First off Kudos to you MD & no disrespect meant but isn,t that kind of what the problem is today with our government ? If you help people to long they become dependent , lazy or whatever you want to call it & will never make an effort to fend for theirselves . I,m just asking What is the difference ?
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I'm in total agreement with your comparison. But I've been deferring to my wife and no longer doing that. Its taken my wife some time to 'come around' to the logic you are laying out but she is on board. Hence we are setting up something that would be minimally comfortable but no luxury, just the basics. And starting out with modest rent, and ratcheting it up on a schedule that encourages her to do something, anything . . .
 
Melensdad said:
I'm building the apartment. I've also already laid down a rent schedule that escalates every 6 months. So I'm giving her a hand up, that currently includes a hand out, but the hand out is being 'retracted' over the course of 18 months.
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Oh ... OK .


Doc said:
Like others have said .... you've put up already with more than I feel I could have.

But isn't it your garage / apartment? If a service call is needed or if she moved out wouldn't you be the one left with the appliances? I'm afraid getting the cheapest will result in higher maintenance costs and shorter overall life of the appliance. If it were me and I found I could spend a little more and get appliances that I could live with if I had to, it would at least investigate that route and see what that would cost me.
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I am in complete agreement with Doc . If she does move out in the near future will you being paying the dealer to install a ice maker to make the apartment more desirable to a future renter ? ?
just asking


EDIT : I understand now , from seeing last post
 
Aren't you building the apartment above the garage for her? You have more patience than I would have. 4 months would have been pushing my limits but then i am a prick. I once had to evict my own brother from one of my rentals but business is business. I help those who make an effort to help themselves but I am not a welfare agency. I learned early in life to work hard and stretch my dollars. As for the appliances she had better be damn glad they are new and energy efficient. Icemakers are for when you can afford them.
 
Makes sense to me Bob. You have been a saint in this ordeal. Not many of us could put up with 4 years of a Sister in law in our house. :eek: I know I couldn't.
 
BigAl said:
If she does move out in the near future will you being paying the dealer to install a ice maker to make the apartment more desirable to a future renter ? ?
just asking
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Nope, no future renter unless another relative comes on hard times. The whole idea is for us to have temporary guest quarters. What we are providing is the equivalent of a decent hotel suite with kitchen. Nice for a short to medium visit. Not enough space for a lifetime of living. No flat panel TV, no pretty fold on the toilet paper and no sanitary seal of quality on toilet seat.
 
Bob, I am new here and probably should keep my mouth shut. I am not good at that.

The term that needs to be introduced is enabling. People do essentially what works. Doing nothing has worked for some time. It is now working better as she is getting he own place. If she does not meet the expected rent increases, would you really put her out? Could it be that you are postponing and eventual decision that you do not want to have to face? Sorry if I am out of place, but, I have been there in another way. I have a stepson that had a drug issue and we kept sending him to rehab and other things until we had to just say to himthat he had to fix it and we would help no more. It had a happy ending he is fine, drug free and has a daughter that he is head over heals in love with.
 
Melensdad said:
Nope, no future renter unless another relative comes on hard times. The whole idea is for us to have temporary guest quarters. What we are providing is the equivalent of a decent hotel suite with kitchen. Nice for a short to medium visit. Not enough space for a lifetime of living. No flat panel TV, no pretty fold on the toilet paper and no sanitary seal of quality on toilet seat.
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Well it makes sense what you are doing and by getting her into her own place is a step hopfully in the right direction . Best of luck .
 
Adillo303 said:
The term that needs to be introduced is enabling. .
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The same term that I uttered to my wife on multiple occasions about the way she has been 'helping' her sister. I believe she and I see things from the same perspective at this point in time.

Oh, would I put her out? In a heartbeat. My wife clearly understands this too.
 
Hey Bob, why don't we buy a duplex somewhere in central Indiana and you move your relatives in one side and I'll move mine in the other side? I think it could be cheaper in the long run. You won't have to give up a good portion of your property and I won't have to give up a hundred thousand dollar piece of property I'm sort of saving for my kids.
 
Melensdad said:
And I should mention that I actually like my sister-in-law. I'm not looking to punish her. But I'm not looking give her a totally free ride on life either.
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I recall you speaking of her living under your roof Bob over these past years.
You're doing well and are being very generous in getting her the necessary things she'd need for an apartment.
Does she work?????
Sorry, but I've only scanned this thread.
If she's been with your family this long now, it's maybe going to feel strange for her to suddenly be put out on her own.
But there comes a time for everything.
I wouldn't put any more $$$ into this than you have to.
I gave thousands away to my youngest son in order to set him and his wife up for life, and hoped they'd respect that and build on what they were given.
When I say thousands, I MEAN thousands.
Down payment on a home, two cars, then another car.
I live in a manufactured home now and am struggling with bills and shit and they don't have much to show for what I gave them.
When it comes to family, sometimes a free ride and a hand out and being generous comes back to bite you in the ass.

I hope you end up doing the right thing.
 
I too, just scanned through this. I just have a couple of questions:

She has a masters degree in what?

How old is she?


The answers to these questions would shape any opinion I have or would be willing to share.
 
Bob, there's nothing wrong with the cheap appliances at Lowe's, and I prefer a refrigerator with no ice maker - less to break - or leak. I had the wife's sister & hubby in my basement for the past 16 months (and their baby for 10 months) - they just moved out. they were paying $400 a month in "rent" and costing us more than that each month in utilities and groceries - then he started complaining about how they were paying too much for the space they were in. My response was that they might need to look elsewhere for housing if he thought they could do it cheaper. (I think I also may have offered to feed their dog to the local coyote pack - or serve it for dinner) Building the apartment is genius - as is the sliding scale on rent -- make sure she signs an agreement to that and that the appliances are part of the furnished apartment and not a gift.
 
Don't worry Bob my wifes from saint laurence island and when her family comes to town they all think we are a free motel / cab service and they all show up unannounced the new rule is they don't stay with out a return ticket i have had to buy too many plane tickets to get rid of guest's who out stay their welcome i'm only marrieed to one person and that's the only one i'm obligated to support.
 
Bob, I don't mean to be negative but you're not getting rid of her, you're moving her from the house to another nearby part of your property. What makes you think she still won't frequent the house as usual and just use the apartment as sleeping quarters? Sorry to bring this up.
 
You can choose your friends, but not your relations, sometimes I think the latter are only sent to try us! The word 'no' is a hard one to learn, but I am still trying.
 
Masters Degree in Literature. Age 46? 47?

And as for "getting rid of her". . . that is not really the point. The point is to wean her off of my wallet and get her to stand up on her own two feet. Please understand that we actually like her, and keeping her close allows my wife to have her best friend next door. But we are pretty much fed up with some of the support. So moving her there gives her her own utility bill, her own satellite TV bill + internet connection (if she can afford them), her own water softener to fill, her own food to buy, etc etc

The concept is to wean her. We hope to give her enough to be safe and secure but not so much that she is really comfortable and certainly lacking in some things that she is used to. Bear in mind, in her current quarters she has a walk in closet that is 7' x 14' and her bedroom suit has its own fireplace, a 50" HDTV w/premium package, WiFi, built in cherry bookcases and private patio. I know a lot of folks who would love to have that as their living quarters. She will get modest but livable quarters and will have to learn to live on a real budget because she will have real bills and a real need to eat and provide heat for herself.
 
Bob i know for a fact if you were my BIL and you helped me out like that i would be forever grateful and proud to call you Family.



Stuff the fact they are the lower end and budget type Your a good man Bob.
 
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