Trailering Snowcats & Other Unatural Acts

[Snowcat Operations]

HMMmm. I have been or was using a tiltdeck trailer for 6 years with Nevada Bell / SBC / AT&T and never had a deck freeze up. Now of course I might not have known since when I pulled off the ramp it always went down. Then when I would come back I would just drive right back up and down she would go. BUT I have had several ramps froze solid in the frame of my standard car trailer. I am not one to just lay them on the deck or in my bed just incase I went for a roll or something. No Tilt decks are much better than removable ramps in my personal experience. It may be diffrent where you live but I have seen -30 many times and blizzards that would make your hair curl and your ass pucker.

 

[Snowcat Operations]

I wouldnt mind having a Maxey tandum axle trailer but at 3,000 lbs (for the smallest one) its really over kill for my Snowcat that weighs in at 3500 fully loaded. The 16 foot lendth is to long as well when you add the tongue and then the 16' deck. You start to get a bit long on some of the access roads if you cant quite make it all the way to the end. Turning around can be a bitch and unloading the cat to monuver everything kills time and makes for a much longer day. Keep your trailer short enough to haul your cat and extra gear and no more in my opinion. BUT I do like tandum axles trailers. If they could just add another axle to a small 12' tilt deck then that to me would be perfect for my size Snowcat. My car trailer is ok but my next creation will be a piggy back set-up for sure.

 

[paulhenry]

It may be diffrent where you live but I have seen -30 many times and blizzards that would make your hair curl and your ass pucker.

Ha! conjures up an interesting image.

We see -28 here often. I have on occassion in the early spring come back in the late evening to a sticky trailer where I left it overnight in a snow - daytime thaw and then a night freeze - but it has never really presented any real problem.

Our roads here go through the same thing here, thaw during the day and turn to a slick dirt highway until the morning sun hits.

 

[mtncrawler]

This type of ramp works well for me. 4X4s between the tracks add piece of mind. So does full 8'6" deck width.

 

[mtncrawler]

This guy likes that style too. Remember that if the total weight of the towed load is 3000 pounds or more you are required to have an independently powered breakaway brake system. That goes for cars on towbars, too.

 

[Snowcat Operations]

I had my trailer rewired today. I also had them install new brake lights, turn signals, side markers and added a new break away battery back up kit. Now the trailer is safe and D.O.T. Legal. They charged me a bit over $400 bucks but is worth the piece and mind.

 

[paulhenry]

HMMmm. I have been or was using a tiltdeck trailer for 6 years with Nevada Bell / SBC / AT&T and never had a deck freeze up. Now of course I might not have known since when I pulled off the ramp it always went down. Then when I would come back I would just drive right back up and down she would go.

That's the norm - rig on trailer - back off - go to work - drive rig back on - no problem.

Then there are guys like me who leave the trailer for 3 months out in the elements with the bed up, so you have to lower it to load. Mostly my problem has been ice on the threads of the screw crank - easy and quick to fix with a persuader, but can be hard just to hand crank.

But all things considered, I like a tilt deck. If my cat was lighter than I wouldn't have had to go with such an industrial unit.

 

[paulhenry]

This type of ramp works well for me. 4X4s between the tracks add piece of mind. So does full 8'6" deck width.

We had a question earlier on the wood decks - do you find them slippery in some weather conditions?

I suppose a fellow could have some 1x2's bolted to the first few feet of the deck - appropriately spaced for your grousers - to give a bite.

Are the cross bars of the ramps raised a little to grip the grousers?

Inquiring minds want to know!

 

[Snowcat Operations]

Paul,
Our tilt decks do not have a screw crank. There is a lever up front you push down which holds then deck in place during normal transport. You simple push this down then back up the weight of the vehicle drops the deck down. I can see where a screw crank would really suck if froze up! I believe my application would be considered light duty compared to a CAT type trailer.

 

[Melensdad]

We had a question earlier on the wood decks - do you find them slippery in some weather conditions?

I've never tried to load or unload in ice conditions. But I've loaded/unloaded in snow and rain and never found the wood deck to be particularly slippery, at least not slippery enough to worry about.

I suppose a fellow could have some 1x2's bolted to the first few feet of the deck - appropriately spaced for your grousers - to give a bite.[/qoute] My deck is a flat bed so it is not necessary, however some of the beavertail style decks might benefit from that. If the trailer is used for multi-purpose use, I'd recommend using deck screws to hold the wood down, it makes it very easy to remove the wood slats when you don't need them.

Are the cross bars of the ramps raised a little to grip the grousers?

My ramps are 6' long and made of welded angle iron. The cross bars do not stick up above the ramp sides. However that does not seem to be a problem, I've never had a problem climbing the ramps with the Snow Trac, a tractor or a car.

This type of ramp works well for me.

Your ramps are constructed the same as mine, by mine removed completely instead of tipping up. My trailer is short and I use it for hauling lumber too so I had my ramps removeable so I can carry long loads by just letting them hang over the end of the deck if necessary. The tip up ramps, like yours, are very convenient, but just didn't work for me. There are many times when I would prefer the tip-up ramps you have.

4X4s between the tracks add piece of mind.

That is a great idea for anyone who has a trailer that does not have side rails. Basically any trailer where the bed is raised over the wheels.

Remember that if the total weight of the towed load is 3000 pounds or more you are required to have an independently powered breakaway brake system. That goes for cars on towbars, too.

I'm not sure if you are technically correct on this, but it sure does make sense. The 3000# limit may be for inter-state driving? I beleive that the weight requirement varies by state for towing WITHIN that state. If I recall, Texas allows something like 4500#(?) to be towed without an electric or surge brake on the trailer. I know that I only pull trailers with at least one set of electric brakes attached to them. Regardless of wether we are towing a lightweight Snow Trac or Kristi, or a heavy cat like a Thiokol 601 or a SkiDozer, we owe it to ourselves to be as safe as we can be.

 

[paulhenry]

Paul,
Our tilt decks do not have a screw crank. There is a lever up front you push down which holds then deck in place during normal transport. You simple push this down then back up the weight of the vehicle drops the deck down. I can see where a screw crank would really suck if froze up! I believe my application would be considered light duty compared to a CAT type trailer.

Here is the lock down method on my trailer. (photo attached) You can see the screw crank and one of the two spring loaded safety latches. (looking at photo I need to lubricate those threads!)

I don't want to leave the impression that this is any big deal - its just that after long outdoor storage I have had a situation where the screw crank was frozen - a couple of swats with a rubber mallet and I was off and running (and again this was early spring where you get that thaw/freeze/thaw/freeze.

I would love to see a photo of the lever - maybe I could retro my trailer with one and eliminate the screw.....

As to weight - yes we are light duty compared to many applications - but I am envious of those who are dealing with 2500-3500# units here on this site - with mine running about 8000+ its heavy by comparison, but no where near the likes of a caterpillar.

Hey - your post was at 4:30 am! You need some sleep man.

 

[mtncrawler]

BSurka, I think you are right about weight limits being different for requiring trailer brakes in different states. A NHTSA site simply says "many states" require brakes over 1500 pounds (California being one of them). Close as I can tell, at the weight limit requiring brakes the requirement for breakaway brakes also kicks in. What is Indiana regulations?

 

[Melensdad]

What is Indiana regulations?

Beats the heck out of me! I knew my trailer package was overbuilt, but I went and did a quick websearch to find out.

Here is the answer for every US state + Canada: http://www.towingworld.com/articles/TowingLaws.htm

• Based on the chart, Indiana requires trailer brakes at 3000#.
• Massachussettes doesn't require them until 10,000#???
• It appears that most states require brakes at 3000#
• But a couple, like New York and North Carolina require them at 1000#
• While California, North Carolina, Georgia, Idaho & Nevada require trailer brakes at 1500#.

 

[Vance]

Hmmm, my trailer doesn't have a breakaway controller but does have elec brakes on both axles. I guess I'd better check to see if I should add it (well, I know I should....)

On the Maxey trailers - I guess I should chime in with a few words. I was fortunate enough to meet Mr. Maxey at the snowcat shootout a couple months ago in Calif. Art Seeley from Safety One introduced him to the group and highly praised his trailers. Art noted that they cost more and were worth every penny.

Mr. Maxey.. Karl - I think was a nice guy. I made it a point to pick his brain on trailers for a few minutes at lunch. There were also a couple Maxey trailers to drool on in the parking lot. Some had aluminum ramps on the rear that could be detached and stored in a pocket in the center of the dove tail.

I specifically asked Maxey about decking. My trailer has wood decking and I have heard of other complain about steel decking being slippery. Maxey stated that that the agressive expanded steel they use has great traction for steel and rubber trackers. He also said that the snow/ice melts and falls through much easier.

He noted one issue with wood decks. If the slush freezes then the tracks can get frozen to the deck. He did say that if he uses wood for decking on a snowcat trailer that he leaves LOTS of space between the boards - like 1". I'll keep that in mind if I re-deck my trailer as my boards are closely spaced but will drain water.

The Maxey trailers are definately caddys of snowcat trailers. Nice but my $1500 8x16 deckover will get my cat here and there. I do have some refinements to add, tho.

Vance

 

[Melensdad]

Neil Messick is one of our non-snowcat members is a tractor dealer and deals with towing on a regular basis. He also has a website with a lot of information, tractor data, and recently posted a basic description of trailer types and towing issues.

http://www.compacttractorreview.com/haulingtractors.aspx
​

It is probably too basic for any seasoned towing pro, but it is a good read for most folks who are researching different trailers.

 

[Moorbagger]

Hello,
this is my trailer. Maximal Load 2000kg, The *Iltis* have a pulling force of 1950kg.


Edit by Bob: The metric conversion for American members is that 1950 kg equals roughly 4200 pounds. A Snow Trac weighs about 2600 pounds.

 

[paulhenry]

Nice Snow Trac and trailer! Load er up and lets go!

 

[mtntopper]

We had a question earlier on the wood decks - do you find them slippery in some weather conditions?

I suppose a fellow could have some 1x2's bolted to the first few feet of the deck - appropriately spaced for your grousers - to give a bite.

Are the cross bars of the ramps raised a little to grip the grousers?

Inquiring minds want to know!

On my 24 foot goose neck with wooden deck and metal beaver tail, I bolted 2X4's across the metal beaver tail portion of the trailer for the snow cat metal cleats to bite and to prevent the snow cats from sliding backwards down the ramp while loading. The shorter metal loading ramps on the rear are not a problem. If it appears the ramps might freeze in the ramp holders underneath you can just throw them on the deck and chain them down until needed. As to the wood deck portion of the trailer, all of my snow cats can bite into the level wood deck and have not slid any on the trailer deck.

You can see the metal deck would be a hazard when loading. This pic is before we added the 2x4's across the beaver tail for added traction while loading. I will post the pics with the 2X4's added after I get home.

 

[paulhenry]

That's a mighty fine looking rig - and you can use it to move other equipment too.

I flirted with the gooseneck flatbeds for awhile also, just found a good deal on another rig.

Thanks for the show 'n tell.

 

[Snowcat Operations]

Actually my post was at 3:30 am. The time index is off. Well at least for me it is. I posted that and then left for my meeting with Bob Pierce. Ask him to post a picture of the lever set-up on the trailer. It is a nice set-up though.

Here is the lock down method on my trailer. (photo attached) You can see the screw crank and one of the two spring loaded safety latches. (looking at photo I need to lubricate those threads!)

I don't want to leave the impression that this is any big deal - its just that after long outdoor storage I have had a situation where the screw crank was frozen - a couple of swats with a rubber mallet and I was off and running (and again this was early spring where you get that thaw/freeze/thaw/freeze.

I would love to see a photo of the lever - maybe I could retro my trailer with one and eliminate the screw.....

As to weight - yes we are light duty compared to many applications - but I am envious of those who are dealing with 2500-3500# units here on this site - with mine running about 8000+ its heavy by comparison, but no where near the likes of a caterpillar.

Hey - your post was at 4:30 am! You need some sleep man.

 

[Snowcat Operations]

On the metel deck trailer like the Maxey and Thiokol ( is suspect maxey built them for thiokol) They have an expanded metel steel deck. Of all the diffrent types of Snowcats I have loaded onto then I have never had any slippage. The expanded metal really bites into the cleats or the cleats really bite into the expanded metal. Either way they dont slip. Any smooth surface would be bad though.

On my 24 foot goose neck with wooden deck and metal beaver tail, I bolted 2X4's across the metal beaver tail portion of the trailer for the snow cat metal cleats to bite and to prevent the snow cats from sliding backwards down the ramp while loading. The shorter metal loading ramps on the rear are not a problem. If it appears the ramps might freeze in the ramp holders underneath you can just throw them on the deck and chain them down until needed. As to the wood deck portion of the trailer, all of my snow cats can bite into the level wood deck and have not slid any on the trailer deck.

You can see the metal deck would be a hazard when loading. This pic is before we added the 2x4's across the beaver tail for added traction while loading. I will post the pics with the 2X4's added after I get home.
View attachment 11980

 

[Bobcat]

Actually my post was at 3:30 am. The time index is off. Well at least for me it is. I posted that and then left for my meeting with Bob Pierce. Ask him to post a picture of the lever set-up on the trailer. It is a nice set-up though.

I will get a better picture this weekend, but try this for now...

 

[Snowcat Operations]

On the right you see a lever that is spring loaded. The shiny thing to the left of the rght handle is a ring thats holding a pin. Pull the pin then push down the handle. The handle is conected to the left side as well. This gives the deck two points of lock up.

 

[Lyndon]

I bought my 1 ton new in 94 expressley for hauling Snow Cats. I used to use a 3/4 ton chev with a utility box, 2 wheel drive and spent a lot of time chaining up. The Snow Cat Hauler (94 1 Ton 4X4) now has about 40,000 miles of which all were hauling one or even 2 machines. 7 trips from Seattle to Alaska, 20 trips from Seattle to Weiser Idaho ( Bill Guthrie's Place), half a dozen trips to Oregon, one to Yelolowstone, 1100 miles each way, with a Bombi on the truck and a ST4 Snow Trac on the trailer. In addition I've probably got several thousand miles in Earls 3/4 Ton Dodge Diesel with a trailer including a trip to the Northwest Territory and 2 more trips from alaska to seattle.

Of the 6 trailers I found that Dual Axel's are best. If you own a Tucker443, or a Snow Trac, which are 6'2" and 6'3" wide respectively definately go with the low slung dual axel car trailer like the Bob Skurka's blue trailer shown at the start of this thread. They are lighter, visibility is better, that is you can see around it, they are easier to load, and and height is not a problem. I built a special 20 Foot by 8 Foot 4 inch Tubing and Alloy deck dual axel. It was a bit high. It had (2) 8000Lb axels. If you go into snow parks and on to ice covered roads, even in fairly flat terraine you may need to chain up at least one axel of the trailer.

I bought my Tucker 443 specifically to use as a Tow Truck if one of the Snow Trac's broke down. But what we used it for the most was to tow out stuck trucks and trailers. If the snow park entrance is "Black Ice" don't go there with out chaining up. After jacknifing numerous times and ending up in the ditch,I recomend with out hesitation to use chains even if your tow vehicle is 4 wheel drive.

One of my trailers was a triple axel and 2 ST4's fit on it, or the Bombadiere Muskeg Tractor and it's matching trailer. But that trailer was 30 feet long and often was a problem turning around. The Snow Mobilers tend to block up the end of the road at the Load/Unload area with no consideration for us "Big Guy's" or for their fellow snowmobiler's for that matter. If you run your machine in hilly areas and the access road isn't perfectly flat, with a continuous unobstructed view, carry cones or safety triangles. There's always some idiot that either jacknifes or get's stuck blocking the road creating a real hazard. It's always on some banked, spirialing turn and often leads to a wreck because the next guy coming or going is going too fast to stop. Single axels are difficult to back up. The Big Players like Alyeska, Power, and Phone Companies usually use a heavy equipment trailer and pull it with a fairly substaintial truck. They fall prey to the same Turn-around problems previously mentioned. Definately have trailer brakes. Since the Snow Cat's are light one can use light truck Snow Tires on the trailer instead of real trailer tires. If it's a single axel this won't work because the snow tires are not available in a heavy enough load range. Some real load range E & F tires require 90 to 110 PSI. If you run them much below this they heat up. Learned this lesson the hard way too.

Heavy equipment trailers are made for much heavier machinery than a snow cat and your pulling a lot of unneeded extra weight. Go as light as possible, consider building a special trailer just for your machine, taylored to your needs. A lot of models of snow cats hardly need ramps to load and unload. Many times we just back the loaded trailer right in to a good drift or snow bank and didn't even have to tip the deck or attach the ramps. It works quite well.

 

[Lyndon]

If you can afford it a special truck, like a 'slide and tilt bed' beats pulling a trailer any day. Remember a trailer is extra weight and those long pass roads really slow you down and burn up fuel. ISUZU makes some nice 4X4 diesels that are good candidates. The "Ramp Deck" arraingement I used is only recomended for smaller machines. There are some specially built bed arraingements for Tuckers that bring the center of gravith down. I've looked at a few and they are in the sales literature. A Regular flat bed with a hydrolic dump cylinder and a winch works well too.

 

[Snowcat Operations]

Here are the tires I put on my car trailer after I jack knifed it in Lamoil canyon when I visited DMIESNER and the gang from the Yellow Snow Club. There was 3 inches of solid ice on the road. Anyway I switched and what a diffrence. The tires are rated at 2,250 lbs. each if memory serves me correctly so I had plenty of weight left over to add on if needed. On the heavy snowcats you could simply run E range All Terrains and have them studded. They can stud even if the tire does not have the little studdable holes. Just a thought and works alot better than chaining up!

 

[Snowcat Operations]

Paul,
I was wrong when I said our tilt decks for the phone company didnt have a screw type lock. I was looking at some old pictures and sure enough there it was. I must be getting OLD! I must have unscrewed that screw a few hundred times and then re-screwed it back. My other tilt deck was a lever style. Sorry.

 

[NorthernRedneck]

I don't have as much time hauling snowcats as you guys. Here's an idea/suggestion that I'll throw out for any opinions. Whenever we have had one of our groomers hauled/trailered, it is usually done by one of the dealers we deal with.(one is lamtrac and the other is the shop industrial) what they always tell us is that it is always best to load the machine on backwards on the trailer. When I asked them why, they said it's because there's a full windsheild on the front of the cab and loading it forwards means that when you're travelling down the highway, allot of pressure is put on the windshield and they've seen many of them break under the pressure.

Last year, when we hauled the BR160 back from a place an hour away, we loaded it front first thinking there wouldn't be a problem. I guess there was a small crack in the windsheild as, when we got it back to town, the windsheild was totally pushed/caved in and the inside of the cab was full of salt and snow from the highway. Allot of the weatherstripping around the doors and windows had also come loose. What a mess to clean up!

 

[mtncrawler]

Works good.

 

[NorthernRedneck]

I guess it doesn't matter as much with a smaller windsheild setup like the ones in this thread but it does make a difference with the newer machines with the full sized windsheilds accross the front of the cab.