I suspect Bob is looking for the VW of tractors, not unlike what he drives. 
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Thinking of getting a Cub Cadet/Yanmar ex3200 tractor?
- Thread starter Melensdad
- Start date
Erik, our local Mahindra dealer is long gone. It was a lawn & garden guy. According to the Mahindra website there are no dealers near me.
Branson is sold by the New Holland dealer and I go to church with one of the senior mechanics for that dealership, his daughter went to school with mine. He told me don't buy a Branson.
I'm not looking for the cheapest tractor, I'm looking for the tractor that best fits my work and has the features that I desire. The Bobcat ct235 is, admittedly, on the large side of the spectrum but the loader and the 3pt offer capacity that steps me up over the other offerings. My biggest concern is that I'm going to trade "up" and spend a good deal of money but really not speed up my work with the Kubota because it doesn't offer enough capacity over what I already have. The Cub/Yanmar offers loader capacity which is good but it actually has LOWER capacity on the 3pt hitch, which I really don't want to give up.
So that brings me up in physical size to the Bobcat, the L3400 Kubota or to the NH 2030 or 2035. The L3400 has far fewer features/creature comforts than the NH or the Bobcat. So that puts the L3400 on the bottom of my list, even if it has the best engine.
I expect the Bobcat will have the roughest running engine. Looks like a demo will be delivered to the house on Thursday??? The NH doesn't have the smoothest running engines in the world, but they have loads of nice features and great ergonomics (I think the best in the industry, along with Deere). The Deere dealer is disappointing me with his lack of inventory, etc. so it is really hard for me to do anything more than order one sight unseen and I won't do that!
I am expecting the Bobcat to come in with a 'good' price, perhaps so good that I can't resist. I am expecting the NH dealer to come in with a price that is at least $4000 higher than the Bobcat, maybe more. The question is, is it worth the added cost? And that could go a few different ways. First the NH could just be dramatically superior because it is so good? Or the NH could be better only because the Bobcat sucks? Or the Bobcat could just be a really good value and surprise me? Honestly I think I have the bar set low enough with the Bobcat based on my prior view of Kioti that I hope I am pleasantly surprised by improvements.
Again, I'm not expecting the engine to be as smooth as a Kubota. I'm not expecting the HST to run as smooth as my NH. But if it is "good enough" then it might be the best overall value. On the other hand, I may just say 'nope' and run back to NH.
But the more I consider all this the less I am impressed with the Cub/Yanmar. Not that it is bad, it certainly is low priced. It just is very basic and it lacks modern hydraulics. . . which is a shame because physically its a great size.
One other thing that is very clear is that the little NH TC24d really stacks up well in features and performance to far larger tractors!!! This shopping is really reinforcing the fact that I made the right choice the first time and that NH makes some awesome machines.
Branson is sold by the New Holland dealer and I go to church with one of the senior mechanics for that dealership, his daughter went to school with mine. He told me don't buy a Branson.
I'm not looking for the cheapest tractor, I'm looking for the tractor that best fits my work and has the features that I desire. The Bobcat ct235 is, admittedly, on the large side of the spectrum but the loader and the 3pt offer capacity that steps me up over the other offerings. My biggest concern is that I'm going to trade "up" and spend a good deal of money but really not speed up my work with the Kubota because it doesn't offer enough capacity over what I already have. The Cub/Yanmar offers loader capacity which is good but it actually has LOWER capacity on the 3pt hitch, which I really don't want to give up.
So that brings me up in physical size to the Bobcat, the L3400 Kubota or to the NH 2030 or 2035. The L3400 has far fewer features/creature comforts than the NH or the Bobcat. So that puts the L3400 on the bottom of my list, even if it has the best engine.
I expect the Bobcat will have the roughest running engine. Looks like a demo will be delivered to the house on Thursday??? The NH doesn't have the smoothest running engines in the world, but they have loads of nice features and great ergonomics (I think the best in the industry, along with Deere). The Deere dealer is disappointing me with his lack of inventory, etc. so it is really hard for me to do anything more than order one sight unseen and I won't do that!
I am expecting the Bobcat to come in with a 'good' price, perhaps so good that I can't resist. I am expecting the NH dealer to come in with a price that is at least $4000 higher than the Bobcat, maybe more. The question is, is it worth the added cost? And that could go a few different ways. First the NH could just be dramatically superior because it is so good? Or the NH could be better only because the Bobcat sucks? Or the Bobcat could just be a really good value and surprise me? Honestly I think I have the bar set low enough with the Bobcat based on my prior view of Kioti that I hope I am pleasantly surprised by improvements.
Again, I'm not expecting the engine to be as smooth as a Kubota. I'm not expecting the HST to run as smooth as my NH. But if it is "good enough" then it might be the best overall value. On the other hand, I may just say 'nope' and run back to NH.
But the more I consider all this the less I am impressed with the Cub/Yanmar. Not that it is bad, it certainly is low priced. It just is very basic and it lacks modern hydraulics. . . which is a shame because physically its a great size.
One other thing that is very clear is that the little NH TC24d really stacks up well in features and performance to far larger tractors!!! This shopping is really reinforcing the fact that I made the right choice the first time and that NH makes some awesome machines.
BigAl
Gone But Not Forgotten
As far as Kioti goes??? I have a 2005 DK45 with all the bells and whistles . I love it and have done things way beyond its intended use . I guess what I am saying is , I would buy another one in a heartbeat .
Bob, buy whatever works for you . I have owned JD , Kubota, Kioti and a few others . Each one had its pluses and minuses . Kioti came out on top across the board .......Thats why I own one . I only have 538 hours on mine , but they are hard hours . Know your limits and you will be fine .
Bob, buy whatever works for you . I have owned JD , Kubota, Kioti and a few others . Each one had its pluses and minuses . Kioti came out on top across the board .......Thats why I own one . I only have 538 hours on mine , but they are hard hours . Know your limits and you will be fine .
Allen, as I said, right now my biggest gripe with Kioti is the dealer network in this area. I'm not really thrilled about the concept of buying a diesel tractor from a lawnmower shop or a lawn and garden type dealer. I want real diesel mechanics at my dealer as well as experts in hydraulic repairs.
I could honestly care less if the guy can adjust a butterfly valve on a carb in an old Briggs & Stratton powered lawn mower. To my mind that is the biggest fault with the brand in my market, other markets may be different. Montana did the same thing here, the Montana dealer had tractors sitting next to used push mowers and the guy was/is great at lawnmower repair. . . diesel, not so much. Mahindra set up shop at a garden center, buy a tray of flowers, get a diesel tractor? Again, not my idea of building confidence. Montana is no longer in this market at all. Mahindra also has no local dealership. So those are orphan brands today.
The Bobcat (made by Daedong) may cost more than the Kioti, but its sold and backed up by a solid dealership, I'll pay extra for the Bobcat if I like when I test it, but won't by the Kioti from a lawn & garden dealership. The fact that I am considering a Korean tractor brand today shows that I have evolved into a thinking human
I could honestly care less if the guy can adjust a butterfly valve on a carb in an old Briggs & Stratton powered lawn mower. To my mind that is the biggest fault with the brand in my market, other markets may be different. Montana did the same thing here, the Montana dealer had tractors sitting next to used push mowers and the guy was/is great at lawnmower repair. . . diesel, not so much. Mahindra set up shop at a garden center, buy a tray of flowers, get a diesel tractor? Again, not my idea of building confidence. Montana is no longer in this market at all. Mahindra also has no local dealership. So those are orphan brands today.
The Bobcat (made by Daedong) may cost more than the Kioti, but its sold and backed up by a solid dealership, I'll pay extra for the Bobcat if I like when I test it, but won't by the Kioti from a lawn & garden dealership. The fact that I am considering a Korean tractor brand today shows that I have evolved into a thinking human
Nobody even wants to comment on this?
OK here is what I see, the M$RP for the Bobcat ct235 WITH FEL/options is just about $22,800. The M$RP for the loader I spec'd out is $4700 and is included in that $22,800 price. But for the NH 2035 the tractor alone seems to be pricing out just over $21,000.
The above is not factoring in any discounts, rebates, trade in offers, etc.
Honestly, even if the Bobcat is crude in comparison, I will have a hard time justifying the price difference. As it sits, a Bobcat should be brought out to my house tomorrow for an evaluation. . . hopefully that will be confirmed today and I can play tomorrow.
OK, got me on that one.
While I do have a couple cheap watches, a daily wear watch that is 'expensive' is often on my wrist. But I don't necessarily consider an expensive watch the equivalent to an expensive machine. An expensive watch is sometimes justified by gold content, hand cut gears, enduring craftsmanship, etc. It still just tells time. Now that said, I will spend money on a Breitling, RGM or Piaget, but not on a Rolex. Two machines that do the same job may not be equal, but may be similar enough that there is no need to spend the extra money, is the NH a Rolex or is it an RGM? Both can cost the same but one, to me, imparts real value and craftsmanship while the other, to the public, imparts status. I'm not about showing others what I have or don't have. To me the finest watches are often those that very few people know.
If I was a salesman then I could tell a lot about the person by the type of watch they were wearing.
A fancy watch may indicate that you:
A. Have lots of money
B. Care about quality
C. Want to appear to have lots of money
A fancy watch may indicate that you:
A. Have lots of money
B. Care about quality
C. Want to appear to have lots of money
Dargo
Like a bad penny...
However, a wristwatch is still, in general, but not always, a depreciating asset. Or, it is an asset you would plan on passing along to a family member or friend. I doubt you'll keep this potential new tractor until you die. You may, but I doubt it. Like me, when you turn the key, you expect everything to work as intended. Nothing will last forever. Agreed?
I'm going to use my current JD 5525 tractor for an example. Right now most prices for which similar tractors have sold, sold for about $4500 to $5000 more than I paid for my 5525 four years ago. As you know, this is not by a long shot the first time I've experienced this with a tractor. However, I'm not in the mood to sell it because it still fits my needs, is the right size and works flawlessly. If you recall, I also considered a far less expensive tractor (no, not a Kioti in this example!) that had similar specs but was far less money. Right now, if I had purchased that other tractor, it would be worth about 47% of my purchase price. At first blush, someone would say that I paid far more for my JD tractor. Did I really?
Back to your watches. I'm wearing a relatively inexpensive Seiko right now. It's okay, but for all intents and purposes, it's a 'throw away' watch. What is a 5 year old used Seiko watch worth now? About $250 less than I paid for it 5 years ago; about nothing. On one of my first cruises to St. Thomas USVI, I bought a Tag. OMG!!! I bought it based on the advice of a friend who likely has more in his watch collection than I have in my home. With the deal I got on the watch, the estimated value of it in it's current condition is about the same as what I paid for it over 10 years ago. Which watch has cost me more?
I'm simply applying the same concept to tractors. With one you have a long track record and a known high resale value with very good reliability. With the other, most of those items are an unknown. Quality has been improving. Fit and finish has been improving. However, what about resale? At some point you will no longer own that tractor. Will the resale be the same?
At auto dealerships there are still some old fellas who come in and want a pickup with NO options; not even A/C in our area. They don't want to pay for that option. However, they trade about every 5 years or so and I can show them where the deduct for no A/C is about double what A/C would have cost them in the first place. Would they really save money by passing on A/C? Professor Rosenberg would be asking you to look beneath the surface, now wouldn't he. What would James Joyce be if you only viewed his writings on the surface?
I'm simply suggesting you look at all known factors, unknown factors, your particular needs, and then weigh in on what tractor would really suit you the best over the time frame which you would own it.
Dargo
Like a bad penny...
I don't wear my 'fancy' Seiko if I'm working outside. I wear my $9.95 Timex Ironman digital. That includes anytime I'm going anywhere and I may be doing work outdoors. What does that tell you about me?
I don't wear my 'fancy' Seiko if I'm working outside. I wear my $9.95 Timex Ironman digital. That includes anytime I'm going anywhere and I may be doing work outdoors. What does that tell you about me?
Not as much as the guy with the fancy watch who just walked into the dealership.
Dargo
Like a bad penny...
Then you should see my point.
No actually I don't, at least not with a TAG-Heuer. While they are good machine made watches, they run the price gamut from roughly $100 to Many Thousands of Dollars and mostly are fashion accessories. The brand is promoted more as a stylish watch than as a technically excellent watch. Flash for the wrist as opposed to a complicated timepiece of extraordinary craftsmanship. That is my main gripe with Rolex, it is nothing more than expensive jewelry to adorn the wrist.
I don't see either of these tractors as having extraordinary craftsmanship. While this particular tractor search of mine has revealed that my past choice of New Holland was an excellent choice that is still holding up well against larger and more powerful competitors, it was also priced competitively when I purchased it. Not the cheapest tractor in the market, but clearly not at the massive price disadvantage that is shown in this current bit of tractor shopping.
This time we have a roughly 20% price spread between these two brands when compared with similar options. My question is, is one actually worth 20% more than the other? Brand value may favor the New Holland. Craftsmanship may favor the New Holland. Even resale/trade-in value may favor the New Holland. But to the tune of 20%?
No on all counts, IMO ............. This would be easy if there was trust in a dealer .............
. The Korean tractors are getting very popular because of quality and cost, even though they might not be as pretty as you like or of a rougher cast ........... come on Bob.I have some issue with the close "dealer" issue. My only thought would be to have a competent dealer in case it needs worked on. IMO, it doesn't have to be around the corner.
How many times has your tractors been back to the dealer? Mine has never been back since I brought it home. So what if it takes a hour or 2 to get it to him. Find any brand dealer with favorable rep of the brand you want and buy the tractor. No matter what you decide and how much you scrutinize, the chances of being happy are as much as being sad.
Local dealer is only important if they are quality dealers. My local dealers are long established high quality dealers, so I don't need to search out distant brands/dealers.
My tractor has been back twice that I can think of. One time for a loader recall warranty fix, one time to have a rear remote valve installed. However, having a local dealer is just as important for the times that I need to go there for misc small parts, fluids, implement purchases, etc.
But now I am really beginning to re-think this whole potential purchase.
To step up over the CAPACITY of what I have, I have to step up in size significantly. My TC24d is heavy for its size, but I'm looking at going up to tractors that are substantially longer, wider and heavier and I don't know that I want to do that.
To trade up to the Kubota or Cub/Yanmar really does not give me any significant advantage in capacity.
To trade up to a larger NH or Bobcat gives me a significant advantage in capacity but also a significant size increase and that would eliminate some of the uses for the tractor.
BTW, the Bobcat demo has been pushed off to TUESDAY of next week. In between now and then I will go back to Kubota and NH and see if I even want to pursue this upgrade by double checking the sizes of these tractors. When this quest started I wanted to upgrade to get capacity. When I really studied the next step up in machine HP and size I found that the capacity was already in my machine and there is no significant reason to go up the next step. That forces me to go up 2 steps and 2 steps in size gives me a real change in capacity but brings with it problems that caused me to choose my TC24d the last time I was shopping!!!
My tractor has been back twice that I can think of. One time for a loader recall warranty fix, one time to have a rear remote valve installed. However, having a local dealer is just as important for the times that I need to go there for misc small parts, fluids, implement purchases, etc.
But now I am really beginning to re-think this whole potential purchase.
To step up over the CAPACITY of what I have, I have to step up in size significantly. My TC24d is heavy for its size, but I'm looking at going up to tractors that are substantially longer, wider and heavier and I don't know that I want to do that.
To trade up to the Kubota or Cub/Yanmar really does not give me any significant advantage in capacity.
To trade up to a larger NH or Bobcat gives me a significant advantage in capacity but also a significant size increase and that would eliminate some of the uses for the tractor.
BTW, the Bobcat demo has been pushed off to TUESDAY of next week. In between now and then I will go back to Kubota and NH and see if I even want to pursue this upgrade by double checking the sizes of these tractors. When this quest started I wanted to upgrade to get capacity. When I really studied the next step up in machine HP and size I found that the capacity was already in my machine and there is no significant reason to go up the next step. That forces me to go up 2 steps and 2 steps in size gives me a real change in capacity but brings with it problems that caused me to choose my TC24d the last time I was shopping!!!
Could you elaborate more on the "size" and the restrictions for "size". Are we talking specifically on weight, I assume so? I don't see a significant difference between a 66" wide tractor vs. 72" wide tractor. Are you doing R-4"s? Wheel base is a non-issue between the "3" sizes you refer IMO.
Less concern about weight, more concern about physical size.
My gates are 60" wide, my tractor is 54" wide, gives me just enough room to get through. My paths are also narrow, my turns are tight. My property is sloped and some of my landscaping is set up to accomodate my tractor's ability to maneuver. Going up in size to a tractor that is a foot+ wider, and foot and a half longer, with implements that will also be wider and longer simply may not fit in much of my work areas.
Now it would be nice to work in the open areas, but much of my property is NOT open area.
My gates are 60" wide, my tractor is 54" wide, gives me just enough room to get through. My paths are also narrow, my turns are tight. My property is sloped and some of my landscaping is set up to accomodate my tractor's ability to maneuver. Going up in size to a tractor that is a foot+ wider, and foot and a half longer, with implements that will also be wider and longer simply may not fit in much of my work areas.
Now it would be nice to work in the open areas, but much of my property is NOT open area.
Interesting thread Bob. I don't fully understand your dilemma. Since you already have a great smaller tractor why not go with a bigger one for the chores where you need the bigger capacity? I've seen you post of moving your pool, so surely you can make your 5 ft gates wider to accommodate the larger tractor. That would be a small job compared to moving a pool.
I doubt you remember but when I was tractor shopping I was looking at the Kubota 2410 and was drooling over the 2710 and 2910 (like the one you used to have). When I was ready to pull the trigger on the 2910 dang if Kubota was not discontinuing the Grand L 3010 and I could get it for a few hundred dollars difference. Lots more tractor for a few hundred dollars. My dilemma at the time was I thought I could haul the 2910 on my current trailer and knew I could not haul the 3010 (it was to wide). I went for the 3010 anyway and I am so glad I did. With the extra capacity the extra size comes in handy. I've done so much more with the 3010 than I ever imagined I'd do with the 2910. I can still maneuver on my trails though some spots are a bit tight, and some spots I widened my trail for maneuverability with my tractor.
So I was focusing on one issue that turned out to be a non issue since the dealer will pick up and deliver my tractor if a visit to the dealer is needed (only one so far). Overall I lucked into the best tractor for my uses. You might find you are doing the same thing on the size issue. Gates can be made wider and to get a tractor that could do more for you it would be worth that effort.
I remember folks on TBN saying no one ever complained about getting to big of a tractor, and I'll admit after I bought my 3010 I wondered if I had really screwed up and got to big. Time has proved to me over and over again that I got the right tractor for me in the 3010. I have a feeling that if you got the bigger footprint tractor that would prove to be the case for you also since you already have a small powerhouse sitting in your garage.
I doubt you remember but when I was tractor shopping I was looking at the Kubota 2410 and was drooling over the 2710 and 2910 (like the one you used to have). When I was ready to pull the trigger on the 2910 dang if Kubota was not discontinuing the Grand L 3010 and I could get it for a few hundred dollars difference. Lots more tractor for a few hundred dollars. My dilemma at the time was I thought I could haul the 2910 on my current trailer and knew I could not haul the 3010 (it was to wide). I went for the 3010 anyway and I am so glad I did. With the extra capacity the extra size comes in handy. I've done so much more with the 3010 than I ever imagined I'd do with the 2910. I can still maneuver on my trails though some spots are a bit tight, and some spots I widened my trail for maneuverability with my tractor.
So I was focusing on one issue that turned out to be a non issue since the dealer will pick up and deliver my tractor if a visit to the dealer is needed (only one so far). Overall I lucked into the best tractor for my uses. You might find you are doing the same thing on the size issue. Gates can be made wider and to get a tractor that could do more for you it would be worth that effort.
I remember folks on TBN saying no one ever complained about getting to big of a tractor, and I'll admit after I bought my 3010 I wondered if I had really screwed up and got to big. Time has proved to me over and over again that I got the right tractor for me in the 3010. I have a feeling that if you got the bigger footprint tractor that would prove to be the case for you also since you already have a small powerhouse sitting in your garage.
jwstewar
Active member
Bob, I think you are looking at this wrong. Don't get rid of the Blue Beast (and they are a beast for their size, as I have one too).
Just get the bigger tractor and have it when you need it and can use it and then have the NH when the other one won't fit or the Bobcat breaks down.
You just need to go back to being a 2 (or 10) tractor guy.
Just get the bigger tractor and have it when you need it and can use it and then have the NH when the other one won't fit or the Bobcat breaks down.
You just need to go back to being a 2 (or 10) tractor guy.Bob,
Look at this tractor purchase the same way you do your guns. Each one has a purpose. Buy a tractor to meet a need/want. If it's too big then plan on renting a piece of equipment for the time the project requires.
If there's no statistical difference between your current tractor and a new purchase it doesn't make fiscal sense to buy. Rent when you need the capacity. It sounds like you're happy with your NH but are wanting to scratch an "itch".
Too bad a John Deere dealer isn't available.
What Doc and Jim said is soooooo true!
K
Look at this tractor purchase the same way you do your guns. Each one has a purpose. Buy a tractor to meet a need/want. If it's too big then plan on renting a piece of equipment for the time the project requires.
If there's no statistical difference between your current tractor and a new purchase it doesn't make fiscal sense to buy. Rent when you need the capacity. It sounds like you're happy with your NH but are wanting to scratch an "itch".
Too bad a John Deere dealer isn't available.
What Doc and Jim said is soooooo true!
K
Dargo
Like a bad penny...
Then, clearly, you need a small skid steer. You do know they make them with 4 wheel steer so they don't tear up the lawn, don't you? Skid steers are considerably stronger than tractors when it comes to FEL work.
Dargo
Like a bad penny...
Ok, what part did you miss?
You do know that most criminals would cut your hand off to steal a TAG. Yet, you consider such a 'knock around' watch. The point is, will Bob ever be truly happy with a 2nd tier tractor?? The only difference in the watch analogy is that the TAG I bought has retained 100% of it's initial value; like most of the tractors I've purchased. I don't know about you, but I've become accustomed to basically using my tractors free, since they have almost never lost value while I've owned them. With that being the fact, how would paying less for another tractor, but losing half of what I paid for it when I sell it, cost me less?
Snowtrac Nome
member formerly known as dds
Bob i've been reading this how about this for an answer buy a kubota and make Big Al feel good because you have some thing the same color as his kristy.
I've got back to tractor shopping.
Here is what I have learned. My little New Holland is a damn fine tractor. It has lift capacities for the 3pt and the FEL that are superior to anything else in its class, and further it has capacities for those that are the equal -or near equal- of tractors the next frame size larger.
So since my little tractor is big on capacity, the only choice I really have is to go up 2 frame sizes.
I looked at several brands at our county fair. Honestly the only 2 left in consideration are the Bobcat ct235 and the New Holland 2030 or 2035. I'm leaning toward the Bobcat. Both dealers are very strong, the New Holland dealer is closer to me but I expect both to be equal in terms of parts/service so that is a toss up.
So I come back to the questions I had before and ask is 100# of extra lift capacity on the 3pt worth $5000 more out of my pocket for the NEW HOLLAND when the FEL simultaneously has less capacity? The cost difference is partially due to incentives currently being offered by Bobcat, no such incentives were available from NH. I cannot justify the cost difference, even if the resale value of the NH would be higher.
Here is what I have learned. My little New Holland is a damn fine tractor. It has lift capacities for the 3pt and the FEL that are superior to anything else in its class, and further it has capacities for those that are the equal -or near equal- of tractors the next frame size larger.
So since my little tractor is big on capacity, the only choice I really have is to go up 2 frame sizes.
I looked at several brands at our county fair. Honestly the only 2 left in consideration are the Bobcat ct235 and the New Holland 2030 or 2035. I'm leaning toward the Bobcat. Both dealers are very strong, the New Holland dealer is closer to me but I expect both to be equal in terms of parts/service so that is a toss up.
3pt Lift Capacity at 24" behind the ball eyes:
Specs are pretty close, with the obvious edge going to to the New Holland. The New Holland is also slightly more compact in most every way. However, the price of the New Holland is roughly $5000 more than the Bobcat.- Bobcat ct235 = 1508#
- New Holland 2030 = 1635#
- Bobcat ct235 = 3056#
- New Holland 2030 = 2605#
- Bobcat ct235 = est. 2500#
- New Holland 2030 = 2700#
- Bobcat ct235 = 1225#
- New Holland 2030 = 1183#
- Bobcat ct235 = 26.5
- New Holland 2030 = 24.5 (28.9 for the 2035)
So I come back to the questions I had before and ask is 100# of extra lift capacity on the 3pt worth $5000 more out of my pocket for the NEW HOLLAND when the FEL simultaneously has less capacity? The cost difference is partially due to incentives currently being offered by Bobcat, no such incentives were available from NH. I cannot justify the cost difference, even if the resale value of the NH would be higher.