switching political beliefs as you grow up?

[OregonAlex]

I know a lot of people simply take on the political beliefs of their parents as they grow up. If their parents voted mule then they vote mute. If they voted elephant then they also vote elephant. However, it seems that some brave folks switch sides as they grow up and vote opposite from their parents.
I have mostly noticed that this is seems to be people going from elephant to mule. Has anyone heard of anyone going from mule to elephant. That is, their parents are mules and the kids went elephant? Do mules ever turn into elephants?

I am using animals here to keep things light hearted

 

[bczoom]

Has anyone heard of anyone going from mule to elephant.

Absolutely and actually everyone I know that has switched has gone from mule to elephant.
A couple that are relatives
My wife (both parents are mules)
Both of my sisters
I would say my mom is a mule but leaning more towards elephant (she lives in NY if that says anything).

 

[nixon]

Alex , I've been a dem. since I was able to vote . I'll be one 'til I can't. But I find the party has changed for the worse ,in my opionion . It's gone from the party of promise ,to the party of negativity .How We got from Kennedy to Kerry is beyond Me ! John

 

[OregonAlex]

Alex , I've been a dem. since I was able to vote . I'll be one 'til I can't. But I find the party has changed for the worse ,in my opionion . It's gone from the party of promise ,to the party of negativity .How We got from Kennedy to Kerry is beyond Me ! John

To me it seems that anyone who reallly cares and has a soul is staying as far away from politics as possible. How many parents are thrilled anymore when their child comes home and says.. "I want to be president when I grow up".

The truely good and honest people that want to become president, never make it that far because of all the underhanded tactics out there to kill anyone who wants to become a canidate.

You gotta be nuts, very rich, and driven to actually put up with that type abuse.

 

[Doc]

It was not the party as much as the person for me. My parents were the same though, for what its worth. I've never voted a straight party ticket. I've been registered as republican, independant and currently democrat. I assumed most people voted that way, for the issues and the candidate or for the lessor of two evils and that only the folks that were very active in their respective parties would vote straight party tickets, usually because they had a motive to be the benifactor on that ticket someday.

 

[OregonAlex]

What's inspiring to me is reading about these rural doctors who take anyone and help them.

There was an article in Forbes that I was checking out the other day about who has made the most money in the medical industry.

The top guy was a lawyer who goes after doctors for malpractise in child births cases(causes brain damage to the new borns) and has successfully gotten the courts to award a higher and higher percentange of the settlement in his favor. Less % of money for this clients and more for himself. Nice. 10 million ain't enough for myself, I need more damn it. I got to feed my kids you know.

Then the articles goes and talks about a doctor from Minnesota and an RN in Oregon that takes in anyone regardless of insurance or not. They have spent a fortune on their educations and have to pay back college loans and yet they are happy making $50k a year. Wish that these type of people actually wanted to run for a political office. Instead, we get the former.

 

[Melensdad]

I don't know anyone who has gone Elephant to Mule, but I know many who have gone Mule to Elephant.

 

[BoneheadNW]

To me it seems that anyone who reallly cares and has a soul is staying as far away from politics as possible. How many parents are thrilled anymore when their child comes home and says.. "I want to be president when I grow up".

The truely good and honest people that want to become president, never make it that far because of all the underhanded tactics out there to kill anyone who wants to become a canidate.

You gotta be nuts, very rich, and driven to actually put up with that type abuse.

It has been said before, you have to be suspicious of anyone who runs for president. That is why presidents should not be elected , but should be drafted . "Joe Blow, you are the best candidate for the job. Therefore for the next 4 years you are going to be president." Then drag the guy kicking and screaming all the way to the White House.

Bonehead

 

[OregonAlex]

why dont we just drop all the pretense and auction off the presidency out in the open without all the underhanded corporate campain funding and money laundrying? proceeds go to charity. Or better yet, instead of taxes paid for by the common joe we lease the presidency out to a corporation and we let them run our country like a publicly traded company where the common man is a share holder. If they do a crappy job, the board of directors will fire them and get someone else.

 

[OkeeDon]

As far as the best people not running for office, we ourselves are to blame. When we insist on knowing every teensy little mistale a candidate has ever made, and insist on that record being more perfect than any "normal" person, we are chasing most of the good candidates away.

As an example, I have always wanted to be a local city councilman. Almost everyone who knows me or has met me has urged me to run. I thin k I'd be very effective at the job. BUT -- way back, in my distant past, I had a run of bad luck, some bad judgement, and I had some bad debts. If I ran, someone woul discover that and hold it against me. I haven't made any debilitating mistakes for 35 years, but those past mistakes would be thrown in my face., I don't want it, I don't need it, and the best way to let those sleeping dogs lie is not to run for office.

Some may blame the media for this. In most cases, probably including mine, it's only the media who has the resources to make these kinds of investigations. But, the truth is, the media wouldn't do it if their readers and listeners didn't demand it. The media is, after all, a business, and they won't continue to produce a product no one wants.

So, we, ourselves, are to blame for smart, savvy, essentially good people not running if they have ever made even a minor mistake.

The idea of a draft for President would not work for the same reason. As soon as Joe Blow was drafted for the office, every pore and sweat gland would be opened for the public. I don't know of very many perfectly clean and innocent individuals out there; I suspect most of you would run for Mexico or commit suicide rather than go through the gauntlet of being drafted into a public position. Remember, if they can't find anything else, they'll throw your speeding ticket at you, or find that picture of you at a party.

This was always bad, but never as bad as it has been since Ken Starr. Yes, Clinton tried to bluff his way out of his "problem", but that "problem" would not have been an issue with any other President until then. Certainly, no one would have been paying people to tape record other people's conversations...oh, wait. I forgot about Nixon and the Watergate breakins; yes, there is a history of certain parties pulling absolutely rotten stunts.

 

[Dargo]

As an example, I have always wanted to be a local city councilman. Almost everyone who knows me or has met me has urged me to run. I thin k I'd be very effective at the job. BUT -- way back, in my distant past, I had a run of bad luck, some bad judgement, and I had some bad debts. If I ran, someone woul discover that and hold it against me. I haven't made any debilitating mistakes for 35 years, but those past mistakes would be thrown in my face., I don't want it, I don't need it, and the best way to let those sleeping dogs lie is not to run for office. yes, there is a history of certain parties pulling absolutely rotten stunts.

And, you know, that's really a shame. Not your specific reference, but in general. An odd thing is that it seems to run almost as much in both directions. I briefly thought about running for a commissioner seat, but when absolutely nothing came up in any background check on me, I was told that it would look like I was using a fake identity and, therefore, hiding something. I think I have been normal, maybe just lucky. Just the thought of people pouring over anything I've ever done and trying to pry any dirt out of anyone I've ever known is not appealing. I know some people who would make up something on almost anyone just for the attention.

 

[john-in-ga]

......... Has anyone heard of anyone going from mule to elephant. That is, their parents are mules and the kids went elephant? Do mules ever turn into elephants?...............

Either, I don’t understand your question or you don’t ever read a newspaper (even the funny pages), watch any news on TV or surf any of the political websites. Yes, in the last few years there have been some people, believe it or not, who have switched from Mule to Elephant. The Mules (who are still in denial by the way) lost the majority on both the House of Representatives and Senate in the US Congress. The Elephant’s candidate for President of the United States has been elected the last two elections.

My State (Georgia) has been a Mule state since the last ice age, but, much to the surprise of the Mules, elected a Elephant’s candidate for governor in the last election. The Elephant’s candidates here are making headway in both State House and US Congressional elections. In fact, the Mules have lost the majority in both the Georgia House and Senate.

Now, I can not say that I know personally any mules who are now Elephants but according to what I read and see in the news there must be a few out there somewhere. If you do happen to pick up a newspaper or turn your TV to a news channel you will more than likely see a Mule braying very loudly about how the Elephants are stealing elections. Pss.., Pss….just an opinion here. The Mules and Elephants fudge about equally, so cancel that part of the election process out.

I can not say whether my parents were mules or elephants, People here, for the most part take the secret ballot deal seriously, but I believe they would have been independent Mules given the politics in Georgia during their time. They both are beyond the age where they can be asked. They would not have told me their preference anyway -- remember The Secret Ballot.

 

[XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq]

What's inspiring to me is reading about these rural doctors who take anyone and help them.

There was an article in Forbes that I was checking out the other day about who has made the most money in the medical industry.

The top guy was a lawyer who goes after doctors for malpractise in child births cases(causes brain damage to the new borns) and has successfully gotten the courts to award a higher and higher percentange of the settlement in his favor. Less % of money for this clients and more for himself. Nice. 10 million ain't enough for myself, I need more damn it. I got to feed my kids you know.

Then the articles goes and talks about a doctor from Minnesota and an RN in Oregon that takes in anyone regardless of insurance or not. They have spent a fortune on their educations and have to pay back college loans and yet they are happy making $50k a year. Wish that these type of people actually wanted to run for a political office. Instead, we get the former.

Interesting that the ATLA (American Trial Lawyers Association) is heavily supporting Democrats. Oh yeah, both Kerry and Edwards were Trial Lawyers.

I bet those 50K a year doctors always vote Democrat too.

Hmmm?

My parents were liberal, my sisters are super liberal, I'm kind of an evil conservative/libertarian.

 

[Gwill]

Alex , I've been a dem. since I was able to vote . I'll be one 'til I can't. But I find the party has changed for the worse ,in my opionion . It's gone from the party of promise ,to the party of negativity .How We got from Kennedy to Kerry is beyond Me ! John

It's simple. Blind party loyalty trumps thinking every time. There is no other explanation for Pelosi, Reid, Dean, the swimmer, Hillary, or even algore's, popularity.

 

[Chief]

Speaking of the great state of Georgia, if more donkeys were like my favorite donkey, Zell Miller, I think this would grab a great deal of positive attention..........even get elephants crossing party lines to vote. (the party mascot is actually a donkey not a mule) By the way, good to see you again John!

In my opinion, our current two party system has rotted to the point of no redemption. The mules who intially were the national conservatives prior to the civil war are now opposite. The elephants who were the progressive liberals during this time has come full swing and now both parties have gone off the left end with the elephants being liberal socialists and the mules being social communists in their political strategies.

I voted elephant for MANY years. The elephants have accomplished some of the goals I had in mind but not to the extent that I had in mind. I more than likely with reject any future arguments about voting for the independent as throwing my vote away. I voted elephant yet I still feel my vote was for the lesser of two evils and maybe not thrown away but not far from it.

My true interests lie in bringing the country back to its roots in the US Constitution as ORIGINALLY written and intended by our founding fathers steeped in Jeffersonian conservative values.

Makes you wonder what people did before the national income tax, social security, welfare, food stamps, FEMA and the list goes on with governmental monsters that swarm together forming a "money toilet" continually stealing more and more of our hard earned money and taking our land and belongings.

 

[Archdean]

As usual George get's it right the first time!!
BTW It's nice to see you again!

Dean

 

[Gwill]

This was always bad, but never as bad as it has been since Ken Starr. Yes, Clinton tried to bluff his way out of his "problem", but that "problem" would not have been an issue with any other President until then. Certainly, no one would have been paying people to tape record other people's conversations...oh, wait. I forgot about Nixon and the Watergate breakins; yes, there is a history of certain parties pulling absolutely rotten stunts.

Here's proof that we remember only what we want to remember. Then some of us fall for misinformation we wish were true. Here's a case in point... After Vince foster's murder the records showing his and Hillary's criminal activity was quickly stolen from his office. There was a witness who came forward and testified to seeing it happen. At the time of Foster's murder she was an employee in his office. She had no way to prove what she had seen and was severely discredited, so she was more careful afterward. She documented what she would be a witness to. Wouldn't you?

In case you have chosen to forget, the lady's name is Linda Tripp! You can look it up!

BTW... Ken Starr was far too lenient in his pursuit of a criminal President and let him off the hook.

 

[Gwill]

As usual George get's it right the first time!!
BTW It's nice to see you again!

Dean

Thanks, Dean,

It's great to be back among friends like you and Chief... and maybe others I haven't found yet.

 

[OkeeDon]

After Vince foster's murder...

Well, I guess I can safely cross you off the list of people with whom it's possible to have a reasonable discussion...that list is getting shorter and shorter, on this forum.

 

[Gwill]

Well, I guess I can safely cross you off the list of people with whom it's possible to have a reasonable discussion...that list is getting shorter and shorter, on this forum.

Your loss, Sonny. Read and learn!

I also think O.J. did it.

 

[Melensdad]

Well I'm not sure, but Don, I do beleive you are couple years younger than Gwill, although I doubt that you are young enough to be considered 'sonny' since you are likely one of the oldest of us here.

As for the Foster "murder" or the Foster "suicide" issue . . . I think there is ample evidence to suggest that Foster very likely died by a self inflicted gunshot wound. I'm not saying that there is not a vast amount of consipiracy information out there to support the 'murder' allegations, because there is a ton or two of documnetation out there that superficially points to murder. But there is also a large body of documentation to back up a suicide, and most of it (at least that I have seen) refutes murder and confirms suicide. Murder is possible, it is however, unlikely.

Got to agree with Don on this point. One of the few times he and I agree on things beyond tractors, BBQ grills or general friendship issues. And perhaps the first time we've agreed on politics.


BTW, I am sure that O.J. did it.

 

[Archdean]

Well, I guess I can safely cross you off the list of people with whom it's possible to have a reasonable discussion...that list is getting shorter and shorter, on this forum.

Don you sure have a unique way of welcoming New Members to the Forum. If you weren't so quick to cross people off your list you might find the list getting longer rather then shorter!!

Dean

 

[Dargo]

Well, I guess I can safely cross you off the list of people with whom it's possible to have a reasonable discussion...that list is getting shorter and shorter, on this forum.

Gees Don, I know that we don't always agree (don't always disagree either), but I hope I'm still on the short list.

 

[BoneheadNW]

Got to agree with Don on this point. One of the few times he and I agree on things beyond tractors, BBQ grills or general friendship issues. And perhaps the first time we've agreed on politics.

Oh my God, stop the presses!

By the way Bob, I think that Skippy, Nixon, and Delay were all set up. Clinton too! What do you think?

Oh, by the way, I won't go to football games anymore-those players kept going into huddles to talk about me!

Bonehead

 

[Melensdad]

By the way Bob, I think that Skippy, Nixon, and Delay were all set up.
Bonehead

What about Halderman, Erlichman and Dean. And Liddy too.

 

[BoneheadNW]

What about Halderman, Erlichman and Dean. And Liddy too.

Absolutely!
Can I include Oliver North in there too?
Bonehead

 

[Melensdad]

Absolutely!
Can I include Oliver North in there too?
Bonehead

Ollie . . . that was a classic set up if ever I saw one.

 

[Dargo]

Oh, by the way, I won't go to football games anymore-those players kept going into huddles to talk about me!

Bonehead

Hey, my Colts whipped the Jags on Sunday. That clash with the Seahawks is still comin' up, I'm tellin' ya!!

 

[john-in-ga]

Speaking of the great state of Georgia, if more donkeys were like my favorite donkey, Zell Miller, I think this would grab a great deal of positive attention..........even get elephants crossing party lines to vote. (the party mascot is actually a donkey not a mule) By the way, good to see you again John!................

I’m proud that we have a mule in Georgia who isn’t afraid to stick up for what he thinks is right, even if it means speaking out against some of other mules in his camp…uh....lot. In doing so, Zig Zag Zell (as some of his opponents referred to him during one of the governor races) has almost caused me to forgive him for his part in starting the lottery in Georgia.

P. S.

Yes, donkey is the correct term, but the gentleman who opened this thread stated he was “using animals to keep things light hearted”. He choose mule and elephant. I don’t know why. Maybe, he doesn’t know about the small, yet very significant, difference between a mule and a donkey, or that, if a fellow had to be one or the other, he would probably choose to be donkey. I’m staying with his choice of animals in an effort to keep things simple. This thread has taken many little twist and turns and an explanation of the birds and bees is something that could really cause this interesting mule and elephant thread to be side tracked.

Double P.S.

Good seeing you again also. I’m looking forward to reading your post here and sharing in the tit-fer-tat that this board seems to invite.

 

[OkeeDon]

Let's set up a real debate scenario.

Compare and contrast the possibility that the Clintons were responsible for Vince Foster's death with the possibility that George Bush is responsible for the deaths of over 2000 American troops.

Take into account that the both situations have been exhaustively researched and, as Bod said, the bulk of the research indicates that Vince Foster committed suicide, while all of the research shows that we were wrong in our reasons for going to Iraq, and that those reasons were pushed hardest by GW Bush.