Snowcat shoot-out

[mtntopper]

Here is a short post on todays shoot out in Colorado. The day started with a temperature of -15 below zero at the shoot out start time. The shoot out was late to start because of snow cat starting and equipment problems. The pics do not do the steepness of the hill justice. It was steep enough when the cats let off on power they would slide backwards down the hill. Note the Hagglunds stuck at the bottom of the hill in the pic below. They are just not up to the same ablility of the newer snow cats on climbing steep grades in deep snow. I will try to give more info when I finally warm up and can type.

 

[Doc]

Good pics! Your point of view in that first pic was AWESOME. Looks like you were flying rather than on top of a hill. I look forward to more .....

 

[mbsieg]

Cool Pics MtnTopper Looks cold but sunny!! I half expected to see a phazer climbing that hill next to the cats?? Looks like their is alot of snow?? So you are saying all Diesels have trouble starting at -15??? Hope you had a great time!! Got a couple more inches of snow slowly keeps adding up!!

 

[mtntopper]

More pics from Colorado snow cat shoot out:

Group registration at -15 degrees below zero.


Looking across the valley at the hill before the the snow cats started climbing on it. It was even a tough climb for snowmobiles.


I was checking out the Wabasto diesel fired diesel engine heater on the new Tucker. Separate topic later on this cool diesel engine heating system.

 

[mtntopper]

More pics from Colorado shoot out;

Hagglunds


Camoplast Trooper


Tucker 2000XL

 

[Melensdad]

Is that Hagglunds unit new? It seems to be the least capable of the machines in deep & steep conditions. I could understand it being less capable if it was an older unit, but if it is new then I question its value in snow, especially given that a version of it is used by NATO forces.

 

[bczoom]

Eric,

Was there a winner to this shoot-out? Just curious which machine came out on top.

 

[DaveNay]

Is that Hagglunds unit new? It seems to be the least capable of the machines in deep & steep conditions. I could understand it being less capable if it was an older unit, but if it is new then I question its value in snow, especially given that a version of it is used by NATO forces.

Just curious Bob, what can you see in the pictures that makes you think it is the least capable? I've have never seen one of these machines in operation, so as far as I know, they could pull a water skier at the same time as drive through deep snow.

 

[Melensdad]

Just curious Bob, what can you see in the pictures that makes you think it is the least capable?

Look up the page, there is a photo of the Hagglunds forced to turn around before it even got to the steep part of the slope.

 

[DaveNay]

Look up the page, there is a photo of the Hagglunds forced to turn around before it even got to the steep part of the slope.

Do you mean the one that is also towing a trailer?

 

[Melensdad]

Do you mean the one that is also towing a trailer?

That is not a trailer. The Hagglund is a 4 track articulated snowcat. It cannot be separated. Both parts are powered so it is a 4 track drive unit sort of like a Tucker but the Tucker has a rigid frame and just the tracks turn. Think of a Hagglunds in terms of tractors and it would be similar to a Power Trac, a Steiner or a Ventrac, they each have articulated bodies and 4 wheel drive systems and the front cannot be removed from the back.

 

[mtntopper]

The Hagglund is not in the same class as the other snow cats. It is a great tough all terrain vehicle with snow capabilities. The others are designed for primary snow usage with all terrain as secondary. The Hagglunds has all terrain capabilities the others lack but is limited in its snow performance. This unit in the pic was actually rolled on to its side early in the day. The other snow cats were able to right it back on its tracks. The rollover did not break even the mirror, side glass or do any damage that was visible. The Hagglunds continued to operate the rest of the day without any problems. I doubt that any of the snow cats would have come out in such good shape if rolled, but they are a more stable vehicle in the deep snow.

 

[DaveNay]

That is not a trailer. The Hagglund is a 4 track articulated snowcat. It cannot be separated. Both parts are powered so it is a 4 track drive unit sort of like a Tucker but the Tucker has a rigid frame and just the tracks turn. Think of a Hagglunds in terms of tractors and it would be similar to a Power Trac, a Steiner or a Ventrac, they each have articulated bodies and 4 wheel drive systems and the front cannot be removed from the back.

Ahhhh...that last picture is deceiving. I can't tell from the head on view that it is the same machine that is turning around in the other pic.

 

[mtntopper]

Was there a winner to this shoot-out? Just curious which machine came out on top.

The Camoplast climbed the highest on the hill but was the machine with the most track on the ground. The dealer brought a unit that was almost 10 foot wide to the shoot out. The Tucker was only 8 foot wide with full rubber (terra) tracks. In my opinion the Tucker performed overall the best even though it was not able to climb as high on the hill. The Tucker employees were just a little more cautious in their operation of the Tucker Terra. I respect that machines abilities as having excellent all terrain capabilities similar to the Hagglunds and still being great in the snow. The Camoplast is also available with full rubber tracks like the Tucker Terra and I would assume it would also be a great all terrain machine and not as capable in climbing in snow with the full rubber type terra tracks installed.

The Tucker is very simple in design and would be an easy machine to work on and keep running for the average user. The fully hydrostatic Camoplast is completely micro processor controlled which makes it perform very well. The average person will need much more knowledge and capabilities to maintain the Camoplast machine.

For any manufacturer to compete in the shoot out they must have certified ROPS cab protection on the machine if built after 1990. Machines built prior to that date will need approval of the sponsor to participate. That limits participation as some are not certified or do not have a ROPS cab. The market these machines are addressing is the large utility users.
More later, Bill

 

[mtntopper]

Well this was not at the shoot out but I did end up working on a snow cat Friday afternoon. My future son in law is the trail master of his local snowmobile club. We spent a several hours replacing the RH tiller control bracket and finding which hydraulic hoses pulled apart when the control bracket broke. The machine started life as a 2002 Bombardier BR2000 and was re-tagged as a Prinoth when the large snow cats began to be sold through Prinoth. It is 12 foot wide and uses a tiller for snowmobile trail grooming. I will be headed back to Colorado later this winter to spend some time in the cab of this cat. One sweet looking ride....This is a real king of the hill snow cat. These are used on all of the major ski areas around the country. It is the big big brother of the Camoplast at the shoot out.

 

[mbsieg]

Is that a Phazer I see in the background?? Well maybe their are two kings of the hill in that pic!!! Well with the right kind of rider on it that is!!!

 

[bczoom]

The machine started life as a 2002 Bombardier BR2000 and was re-tagged as a Prinoth when the large snow cats began to be sold through Prinoth. It is 12 foot wide and uses a tiller for snowmobile trail grooming.

Why can't I find a drewl smiley?

Sweet!

 

[mtntopper]

Another find in Colorado. According to the info I got on this cat in the pic below. It was replaced by a newer Bombardier two years ago, parked outside and it has never even been started or moved since. I know someone somewhere is looking for this cat....

I also have leads on several older Thiokols and Tuckers that are for sale in western Colorado that I was not aware of prior to being in the area. I will try to get some details and post here on the forum.
Bill

 

[BigAl]

Well .... Things are looking up ! The Weather Service is calling for some pretty good storms in the next day or so . Its starting to cloud up here now . Hope for snow!!!

I just recieved a Comfirmation Reminder letter from SafetyOne telling me it is still a "go" for the shoot out on Feb28th .

Do we have a final tally of FF members that will be attending ???

Do some of you want to have a potluck dinner at my place when we are finished Or we could have a snow pinic potluck dinner there ??? I am about 30 miles from the "shoot out location" in Grass Valley.There is a nice little camp ground just down the road about a mile from the shootout location and we could transport people there in our snowcats. It is empty this time of year and we could have a big bonfire and eat before returning home ???
I thought this might be a nice way to put some faces on the names .


Let me know !

 

[Vance]

Al and others,

I'm up for a BBQ. Either at the campground or at Al's.

Al, did you get word on bringing your snowcat? I was kinda thinking that we should have OUR snowcat shootout on a day to ourselves when we had more time to play. I'm open, though. Do you know logistics for getting from the snocat shootout location to the proposed BBQ site? I know the campground (I think) if the Lodgepole CG operated by PG&E is the one you are thinking of.

Any way it goes - I'm in!!

Vance

 

[BigAl]

Al, did you get word on bringing your snowcat? Vance

No ,I have never received anything from SafetyOne ,but I did talk with Mtntopper who attended the Colorado Shootout .Safetyone is more directed towards the commercial user and it does not appear that they would have much interest and I can completely respect that . But that does not keep me from trailering the KT7 up there and leaving it on my trailer in the parking lot while I attend the shootout .
Besides ,if I am that close to snow, I would really like to try it out later after we are done at the shootout . I believe the name of the Camp Ground is "Lake Valley Camp Ground" .It is a mile or two down the road from the Shootout . It will be closed this time of year but I believe the gate is kept open .

 

[Eric L]

Did someone say food?

I'm in for whatever if food (and beverage) is involved....

....Do I need to take Thursday off too?

Eric

 

[Vance]

If we plan the meet/greet at Lake Valley then we'd better scout it out as I've gone up there for snow-play before and there is a 6 ft ledge of snow at the end of the road (gate). Depends on the amount of snow (which is not much now...).

I'll also offer up a meet/greet/bonfire at my property in Soda Springs. It is a few more miles up the hill and the only reason I offer is 'cause I'm not sure what is available at Yuba Gap.

....Do I need to take Thursday off too?

Eric

Hmm, I'd love to make it a late-night party


or even all-nighter campout but I have to drive to the bay area for work Thursday,

I don't care where we do the bbq. But, I wanna make sure that Al can have a place to get that thing off the trailer!!! We can't have him dragg'n that virgin all around the county!!

See y'all there,

Vance

 

[mlang2005]

de-flower Als YETTI? I cant wait.

 

[BigAl]

I may have mentioned in a past post that I had sent a email to "Safety One" asking if they still planned on having the Shoot Out on the 28th. I did get a reply from Mrs Seely and it is posted below . I'll try to get up to where the shootout location will be held and check out the snow depth and access to the Campground .


Hello Allen,

To my knowledge, the shootout is still a go. We are monitoring the snow level and I will keep you posted. Thanks for the update on the current snow fall. I heard through the grapevine that it just snowed there. I have been watching via web traffic cam also and it appears that there are a few more inches today.

Sherri



To: Sherri Seely
Subject: Re: Snowcat Shootout Reminder for California Feb. 28, 2007


Dear Mrs. Seely,

Are you still planning on having the shootout at Yuba Gap ? I live 28 miles down the road and there really is not much snow left . In fact it is raining to 7000'elevation rigt now .

Sincerely,

Allen Hutson

 

[Snowcat Operations]

It has not been snowing up here in Ely either. Well not like usual. Hope we get a BIG storm soon!

 

[Vance]

FYI,

I'll post some pics from the shootout area tomorrow evening. I'm heading up in the hills to do some snowmobiling and I'll swing by on the way home to check out the snow conditions. I hope we get another storm b/4 the shootout 'cause it's supposed to be in the 60s in the foothills tomorrow (70+ in Sac)!!!

Looking forward to the event!!

Vance

 

[BigAl]

That is much appreciated Vance . It will save me the trip to check it out .

 

[Vance]

Hi,

Sheesh!! I'm tired and sore today after a 2fer snowmobile trip in the Sierra. Went out for a typical day trip and did about 50-60 miles in the mountains - there was still lots of untracked snow from last weeks 3-4 foot dump. Yippee. Then on way home we decided we wanted more and picked up some sandwiches and coctail fixins and decided to go to Soda Springs for a picnic and night ride. Plenty of snow in Soda Springs, too and had a great time. After tearing up the meadows and visiting a couple neighbors cabins I was finally ready to head down to Yuba Gap to check out conditions - It was now 11pm!!!

Sorry for the long story but I had to share - Now... the snow at Yuba Gap does not exist...

There are only a few patches here and there.
Pic 1: Road in
Pic 2: Gate CLOSED on road to campground. The campground is still a ways down the road so it is not accessible. The small patch of snow is about the biggest one in the area.
Pic 3: This is the sign at the SnoPark near the TT/Snowflower area. What you can't see in the pic is the dark banner along the sign is actually a "SnoPark CLOSED" banner.
Pic 4: Sledn Soda Springs (Castle Peak in the background)

Sorry for the dark pix but you get the picture. We would need at least 4-6 feet of snow at that elevation to make the even possible. We have storms coming in Wed or so but it does not look good IMHO.

Hmm, a bit long-winded this am...

Vance