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Shopping for a Cat: What is best?
- Thread starter HRockefeller
- Start date
Snowy Rivers
Well-known member
Snowy Rivers
Well-known member
You are getting really good advice.
Used is great in my opinion.....but they need to be gone over really well before ya hit the back country.
Newer machines with more electronic controls (USED) CAN BE more of a maintenance problem for the private operator.
At a ski resort they have multiple cats and if one breaks down they simply send another one...or more out to drag it to the shop....
With a private owner waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out in the sticks AS MENTIONED help can be a serious issue.
Years ago when I was a member of the local snowmobile club we ran a Tucker 4 track and a Thiokol 2 track machine.
Worst break down was a broken track on the tucker.
Luckily it was a good day weather wise and with some careful "Micky mouse" they limped it back to the parking lot and hauled it home.
The Thiokol never gave us much trouble.....just lucky maybe.
The electronics are sweet when they are working.....but 25 miles into the sticks and something goes sour....it can be a serious issue.
There are good and bad points to each and every make and model......"Simple" causes less issues and can usually be fixed on the trail easier than a more complex setup.....at least to the point that you can get it out......
Broken track or grouser
Flat tire (Guide tires)
Steering issues (Planetary type diffy)
Hydraulics problems (Hydrostatic drive)
Electronic engine controls
The list is long.
The less goodies....the less to go wrong.
No different than the modern car or truck......
Fun stuff
Used is great in my opinion.....but they need to be gone over really well before ya hit the back country.
Newer machines with more electronic controls (USED) CAN BE more of a maintenance problem for the private operator.
At a ski resort they have multiple cats and if one breaks down they simply send another one...or more out to drag it to the shop....
With a private owner waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out in the sticks AS MENTIONED help can be a serious issue.
Years ago when I was a member of the local snowmobile club we ran a Tucker 4 track and a Thiokol 2 track machine.
Worst break down was a broken track on the tucker.
Luckily it was a good day weather wise and with some careful "Micky mouse" they limped it back to the parking lot and hauled it home.
The Thiokol never gave us much trouble.....just lucky maybe.
The electronics are sweet when they are working.....but 25 miles into the sticks and something goes sour....it can be a serious issue.
There are good and bad points to each and every make and model......"Simple" causes less issues and can usually be fixed on the trail easier than a more complex setup.....at least to the point that you can get it out......
Broken track or grouser
Flat tire (Guide tires)
Steering issues (Planetary type diffy)
Hydraulics problems (Hydrostatic drive)
Electronic engine controls
The list is long.
The less goodies....the less to go wrong.
No different than the modern car or truck......
Fun stuff
Snowy Rivers
Well-known member
Careful...don't need a fat head here.. 
So many good ideas have been posted.
My worst nightmare has always been getting in the brush and having a breakdown.
Out on the highway....always somebody going by and will stop and at least offer condolences....and the cell phone will usually work.
IF YOU ARE TRAVELING INTO THE BACK COUNTY....BUY A SATELLITE PHONE
As long as you can see the Sky....you can call out.
I have this bad boy
As the sticker says...GOING WHERE CELL PHONES CAN'T
These are very cheap insurance that could save your life or the life of another back country traveler
WE had this unit deep in the mountains down in a canyon with no cell service for miles.
I had the roof top antennae on the rig....grabbed the hand set and called home.
Everyone at camp was laughing...they thought it was an old school cell phone.....
Within a sort time I was chatting with folks at home.
I put the call on speaker and let everyone hear.
There are new models but I grabbed this one at a garage sale for $50 and then added the hard case setup.
Thing looks like a clubby old cell phone from the early 90's.....no texting.....but ya can get help.....nuff said
So many good ideas have been posted.
My worst nightmare has always been getting in the brush and having a breakdown.
Out on the highway....always somebody going by and will stop and at least offer condolences....and the cell phone will usually work.
IF YOU ARE TRAVELING INTO THE BACK COUNTY....BUY A SATELLITE PHONE
As long as you can see the Sky....you can call out.
I have this bad boy
As the sticker says...GOING WHERE CELL PHONES CAN'T
These are very cheap insurance that could save your life or the life of another back country traveler
WE had this unit deep in the mountains down in a canyon with no cell service for miles.
I had the roof top antennae on the rig....grabbed the hand set and called home.
Everyone at camp was laughing...they thought it was an old school cell phone.....
Within a sort time I was chatting with folks at home.
I put the call on speaker and let everyone hear.
There are new models but I grabbed this one at a garage sale for $50 and then added the hard case setup.
Thing looks like a clubby old cell phone from the early 90's.....no texting.....but ya can get help.....nuff said
Attachments
Last edited:
PJL
Well-known member
Yep, sat phones will save someones bacon. Maybe the guy you find that needs help in the middle of nowhere. The 2 way satellite messaging devices are very popular too. The Garmin Inreach and the SpotX are just 2 of them. They allow for 2 way texting. Had quite a few rescues off of alerts from those.
Snowy Rivers
Well-known member
One trip we were out in the sticks at Elk camp and the out fit just up the road had a fella having a heart attack....
a good hour out to the main road in good weather and we had snow.... plus another 40 miles to town.....
We were coming by their camp and saw the big commotion going on.
One of the gals ran over screaming that her hubby was in trouble.
Grabbed the SAT PHONE and we had a life flight chopper in there (Large meadow within 100 feet of camp) within 20 minutes.
(Gave the 911 call taker the GPS location...good to go)
20 minutes seemed like hours...but they landed the chopper ...loaded the fella up and got him to the hospital.
Guys wife called us back the next day (On my Sat #) and gave us the good news) fella ended up having bypass surgery that night and was going to be fine.
The long trip out via the road was not an option.
The chopper took the guy to a medical center that could deal with the emergency....Bend, Oregon
Not all uses are this dire of an emergency....but just being able to get in touch with help is soooooooooooooo good.
So your on a Snow cat camp out and you can call the folks at home and let them know all is well and where you set up camp.
What location yada yada yada...
We were on an overnight jet boat trip up the Snake river .....Called home to let family know we were fine and all was well...
The uses are many.....if trouble happens along and you need help...PRICELESS..
The Kit that contains my Global Star can be mounted in a cat as a permanent mount....The phone snaps into the mount and interfaces with the standard hand set/ speaker and roof antenna ....The 1600 can be tossed into a pocket on your Tac jacket or snow suit as well...
The 1600 is pretty much old school now....but will still gitterdone. The 1600 was originally able to use a cell signal or if no cell is available it will use the Sat signal.....The new cellular systems do not interface with the old technology.....But the Satellite part still works fine.
The 1600 Global Star can be found on places such as Ebay
I bought mine at a garage sale....Fella used it while working offshore on a job he could not talk about for people he could not name.. (Government contract stuff) He wanted to be able to call his wife and family...but always had to have an officer standing by observing his conversation....Ships communications were not available to the private contractors..... Anyway...cool stuff.
This is the same kit I have...just a different color box
Far more up to date stuff out there...but $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ more.
a good hour out to the main road in good weather and we had snow.... plus another 40 miles to town.....
We were coming by their camp and saw the big commotion going on.
One of the gals ran over screaming that her hubby was in trouble.
Grabbed the SAT PHONE and we had a life flight chopper in there (Large meadow within 100 feet of camp) within 20 minutes.
(Gave the 911 call taker the GPS location...good to go)
20 minutes seemed like hours...but they landed the chopper ...loaded the fella up and got him to the hospital.
Guys wife called us back the next day (On my Sat #) and gave us the good news) fella ended up having bypass surgery that night and was going to be fine.
The long trip out via the road was not an option.
The chopper took the guy to a medical center that could deal with the emergency....Bend, Oregon
Not all uses are this dire of an emergency....but just being able to get in touch with help is soooooooooooooo good.
So your on a Snow cat camp out and you can call the folks at home and let them know all is well and where you set up camp.
What location yada yada yada...
We were on an overnight jet boat trip up the Snake river .....Called home to let family know we were fine and all was well...
The uses are many.....if trouble happens along and you need help...PRICELESS..
The Kit that contains my Global Star can be mounted in a cat as a permanent mount....The phone snaps into the mount and interfaces with the standard hand set/ speaker and roof antenna ....The 1600 can be tossed into a pocket on your Tac jacket or snow suit as well...
The 1600 is pretty much old school now....but will still gitterdone. The 1600 was originally able to use a cell signal or if no cell is available it will use the Sat signal.....The new cellular systems do not interface with the old technology.....But the Satellite part still works fine.
The 1600 Global Star can be found on places such as Ebay
I bought mine at a garage sale....Fella used it while working offshore on a job he could not talk about for people he could not name.. (Government contract stuff) He wanted to be able to call his wife and family...but always had to have an officer standing by observing his conversation....Ships communications were not available to the private contractors..... Anyway...cool stuff.
Qualcomm Globalstar GSP-1600 Tri-Mode Portable Satellite Phone w/ GCK-1250* | eBay
Our Standards. We are a team of experts who are flexible, attentive, and responsive. NurTech Technology, LLC, was established in 2006. About NurTech Technology! Our Warranty Policy.
www.ebay.com
This is the same kit I have...just a different color box
Far more up to date stuff out there...but $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ more.
Last edited:
What’s the monthly service fee? Contract ?
Snowy Rivers
Well-known member
Depending on the package you sign up for....Sky is the limit (Pun not intended) Mine was 100 minutes $65 per month
Some outfits (Different carriers and phones will offer prepaid that goes until you use it up)
Mine was a monthly.
Not a Chat box....we had it for the necessary SHTF or a quick "Hey..all is well..we are at this location"
That $65 a month was well worth saving a mans life......
Any more I do not head into the sticks without it.......
Just having it stowed in the rig is great piece of mind....
Being able to call out from a place like Hell's Canyon is just awesome.
Before buying equipment....research the carrier and the plans they offer.
www.googleadservices.com
Global Star used to offer prepaid (Use it until its gone and then buy more time) but then went to monthly only...
Unless you are working in the sticks and need constant usage...the small plans are pretty good...and will cover your butt...
Some outfits (Different carriers and phones will offer prepaid that goes until you use it up)
Mine was a monthly.
Not a Chat box....we had it for the necessary SHTF or a quick "Hey..all is well..we are at this location"
That $65 a month was well worth saving a mans life......
Any more I do not head into the sticks without it.......
Just having it stowed in the rig is great piece of mind....
Being able to call out from a place like Hell's Canyon is just awesome.
Before buying equipment....research the carrier and the plans they offer.
FREE GSP-1700 Satellite Phone | Globalstar US
The GSP-1700 is a small phone with huge advantages. Get crystal-clear digital voice quality, and data speeds of 9.6 kbps. Get your FREE Satellite phone today!
www.googleadservices.com
Global Star used to offer prepaid (Use it until its gone and then buy more time) but then went to monthly only...
Unless you are working in the sticks and need constant usage...the small plans are pretty good...and will cover your butt...
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That's really a great story. How incredibly fortuitous you came by when you did, and with a Sat phone.One trip we were out in the sticks at Elk camp and the out fit just up the road had a fella having a heart attack....
a good hour out to the main road in good weather and we had snow.... plus another 40 miles to town.....
We were coming by their camp and saw the big commotion going on.
One of the gals ran over screaming that her hubby was in trouble.
Grabbed the SAT PHONE and we had a life flight chopper in there (Large meadow within 100 feet of camp) within 20 minutes.
(Gave the 911 call taker the GPS location...good to go)
20 minutes seemed like hours...but they landed the chopper ...loaded the fella up and got him to the hospital.
Guys wife called us back the next day (On my Sat #) and gave us the good news) fella ended up having bypass surgery that night and was going to be fine.
The long trip out via the road was not an option.
The chopper took the guy to a medical center that could deal with the emergency....Bend, Oregon
Not all uses are this dire of an emergency....but just being able to get in touch with help is soooooooooooooo good.
So your on a Snow cat camp out and you can call the folks at home and let them know all is well and where you set up camp.
What location yada yada yada...
We were on an overnight jet boat trip up the Snake river .....Called home to let family know we were fine and all was well...
The uses are many.....if trouble happens along and you need help...PRICELESS..
The Kit that contains my Global Star can be mounted in a cat as a permanent mount....The phone snaps into the mount and interfaces with the standard hand set/ speaker and roof antenna ....The 1600 can be tossed into a pocket on your Tac jacket or snow suit as well...
The 1600 is pretty much old school now....but will still gitterdone. The 1600 was originally able to use a cell signal or if no cell is available it will use the Sat signal.....The new cellular systems do not interface with the old technology.....But the Satellite part still works fine.
The 1600 Global Star can be found on places such as Ebay
I bought mine at a garage sale....Fella used it while working offshore on a job he could not talk about for people he could not name.. (Government contract stuff) He wanted to be able to call his wife and family...but always had to have an officer standing by observing his conversation....Ships communications were not available to the private contractors..... Anyway...cool stuff.
Qualcomm Globalstar GSP-1600 Tri-Mode Portable Satellite Phone w/ GCK-1250* | eBay
Our Standards. We are a team of experts who are flexible, attentive, and responsive. NurTech Technology, LLC, was established in 2006. About NurTech Technology! Our Warranty Policy.www.ebay.com
This is the same kit I have...just a different color box
Far more up to date stuff out there...but $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ more.
Once, back in my snowmobiling days our plans for returning at the end of the day were changed by mother nature and we had to fight our way out through some seriously deep, drifted snow. It took probably four hours longer than we planned and when we made it back to the trailers our sleds were on fumes. The following week when we went out again one of my buddies showed up with a SPOT device. The idea of being able to send a text to family saying we're okay, but would be late made a lot of sense, as well as the capability to call for help in an emergency.
Snowy Rivers
Well-known member
We had been camped just around the corner from the folks and had spoken to them earlier in the day about getting together later for a group hunt.
We had to pass their camp to get to ours...coming and going....
Yes it was a lucky shot.
Yess
The spot devices and other gizmos will certainly help.
The Sat phone gave us direct connection to a 911 operator....She had to transfer me to a local service...that took little time.
BACK IN MY days sledding we were in about 39 miles at a cabin and had MA NATURE hand us our butts.
We were not able to get out as planned and had to spend a couple extra days at the cabin.
No way to call anyone...so the families were all in the lurch....worried sick no doubt
Sat phone....great piece of off road equipment....
Right there with the tool box and spare parts...
We had to pass their camp to get to ours...coming and going....
Yes it was a lucky shot.
Yess
The spot devices and other gizmos will certainly help.
The Sat phone gave us direct connection to a 911 operator....She had to transfer me to a local service...that took little time.
BACK IN MY days sledding we were in about 39 miles at a cabin and had MA NATURE hand us our butts.
We were not able to get out as planned and had to spend a couple extra days at the cabin.
No way to call anyone...so the families were all in the lurch....worried sick no doubt
Sat phone....great piece of off road equipment....
Right there with the tool box and spare parts...
MountainMike
Member
Snowy Rivers
Well-known member
Mike
You got that right....
I am 68 now and the other half is 75 and chit happens.
We still like to get out in the sticks and have fun.....having that Sat phone in the rig makes it a far more relaxing trip.
We went hunting with a friend on a simple day trip....their rig kept quitting at random intervals.....If that sucker had left us way out in the sticks.....would have been a nasty deal.....
Normally I would have been a nervous wreck with the rig acting up....Nope....With my pocket GPS and the Sat phone we could have easily brought in help.....
No way will I travel in the sticks without the Sat unit.....
You got that right....
I am 68 now and the other half is 75 and chit happens.
We still like to get out in the sticks and have fun.....having that Sat phone in the rig makes it a far more relaxing trip.
We went hunting with a friend on a simple day trip....their rig kept quitting at random intervals.....If that sucker had left us way out in the sticks.....would have been a nasty deal.....
Normally I would have been a nervous wreck with the rig acting up....Nope....With my pocket GPS and the Sat phone we could have easily brought in help.....
No way will I travel in the sticks without the Sat unit.....
Blackfoot Tucker won't mention it because he is a good guy like that, and probably doesn't want to sound like a sales guy, BUT.... He's got a Tucker 1544 AND an ultra wide track DMC 1450 that he will be selling sometime soon. If you have seen his posts before, he is over the top meticulous about fixing issues and making sure whatever cat he is selling is as close to perfect as can be before he will let it go. Sometimes he will even make customer requested modifications to machines to customize it for the purchaser. To me buying from a seller you can trust is worth its weight in gold. If I were you, I would shoot him a PM and at least discuss those machines. Either one would be very capable.
WBJ1, Thanks for the kind words. That was really “sweet” of you….
I do believe who you buy a snowcat from can be an important part of the purchase process. There are snowcat “flippers” that buy machines and add thousands, or even tens of thousands, of dollars to the price they paid, and often with little to no value added. Scott and I do “sweat the details” to ensure a machine works as it should when it’s listed for sale. We believe it’s important to be able to look someone in the eye and say "It works properly”, and know we're being truthful.
That doesn’t mean the machine is perfect, or that it won’t break down at some point. But it does mean we’ve been over the machine carefully and thoroughly, and addressed the things we found wrong. That’s true of mechanical things and cosmetics, too. While in theory we “make money” in the process, I really hate to think about how little it works out to be on an hourly basis.
HRockefeller
New member
I am still watching the classifieds, looking out for something. My issue is that I'm not mechanically inclined, something that seems to be a pre-requisite for the older machines. I definitely know nothing about hydraulics. Then once you do have the machine, it's older, hard to get parts, and not as comfortable as a modern Truck / SUV.
I have always asked myself, why can't someone not just make some proper tracks? Mattracks are really expensive, heavy, and don't have paddles. Why can't there be Tucker-like tracks which can bolt on to a truck or SUV? Now there are. After seeing this, my plan has shifted from getting a Scout someday, to bolting these onto a modern vehicle.
www.helltraxx.com
I have always asked myself, why can't someone not just make some proper tracks? Mattracks are really expensive, heavy, and don't have paddles. Why can't there be Tucker-like tracks which can bolt on to a truck or SUV? Now there are. After seeing this, my plan has shifted from getting a Scout someday, to bolting these onto a modern vehicle.
HellTraxx | Deep Powder Adventure | Michigan
HELLTRAXX – THE WINTER MOUNTAIN ACCESS REVOLUTION. These OEM vehicles willl revolutionize deep powder mountatin winter access. Winter access to remote, high-altitude areas, backcountry recreation, and avalanche control and safety rescue with all-year utilization of vehicle. Tracks can be...
www.helltraxx.com
The issue is exactly what Dave found out. The overhung load is huge on these and "normal" components are not able to handle it for any length of time. Certainly you can have the suspension upgraded to handle the load, but you just stepped away from the ease of maintenance you wanted as it's now a different animal. Yes, there are people running this type of setup. Personal preference in whether to buy designed for snow, or adapted to it.
HRockefeller
New member
Totally agree - they had to beef up a lot of suspension.
Perhaps this is the clip I should have shared:
Perhaps this is the clip I should have shared:
Smilingreen
Old enough to know better
Sparks breaks everything he drives. He is a wee bit hard on equipment.
That said, there are some vehicles better suited for a track conversion with bolt on tracks, there are other vehicles that are clearly not well suited, without massive modification, for such bolt on equipment. Starting with a sold 4x4 seems to make more sense than trying to bold tracks on a road car with AWD. I'm not saying you can't do something, just sayin. . .
I didn’t watch the video.
Dave Sparks certainly has his fans, and that’s fine, but I’m not one of them. I’m sure he makes great money from YouTube, as well as his sponsors, but I’m not sponsored, I worked hard for my money, and I want it to last. I don’t know what those HellTraxx cost, but I’ll bet they are more expensive than any snowcat I’ve bought, and at least double what I’ve paid for several.
I’m not an engineer, just a basic knucklehead, but my impression/understanding is that vehicles are designed based on their configuration when they leave the factory. That means bearings are chosen based on expected loads, fasteners are sized similarly, frames, suspension components, driveshafts, universal joints, transfer cases, transmissions, engines, cooling systems, etc. are all part of an integrated design.
There was a link somewhere on the forum to a few YouTube videos of some guys in Michigan who took side by sides on tracks to some trails. The trails weren’t particularly challenging, the snow wasn’t especially deep, and they weren’t that far from "civilization”. But they tore stuff up bigly. And they way they did it was bigly expensive, too. Beating the snot out of a vehicle isn’t my idea of fun, and neither is taking a brand new vehicle and bolting a bunch of very expensive stuff to it that the vehicle wasn’t designed for. I don’t think it’s going to end well. That’s another way of saying it’s going to be an expensive lesson.
How far out from the hubs do those Helltraxx tracks protrude? Guess what? That acts like a long lever on the wheel hub bearings and some of the suspension components. Now think of the rotational load turning those tracks takes, and think about the axle shafts, and with an independent front suspension there are CV joints as well. Were they designed for that? Ah...No. That kind of stuff isn’t covered under warranty, and when undersized parts break in the backcountry, who are you going to call to drag your high dollar broken vehicle out? There’s a decent chance that getting it out will cause more damage, too.
Perhaps more importantly, if you break deep in the backcountry and have to walk out, depending on snow conditions, weather, provisions and personal health you could have a no-kidding survival situation. All of a sudden that Uber-expensive SUV with all the creature comforts doesn’t seem so attractive compared to a purpose built snowcat, primitive and spartan as it may be
Dave Sparks certainly has his fans, and that’s fine, but I’m not one of them. I’m sure he makes great money from YouTube, as well as his sponsors, but I’m not sponsored, I worked hard for my money, and I want it to last. I don’t know what those HellTraxx cost, but I’ll bet they are more expensive than any snowcat I’ve bought, and at least double what I’ve paid for several.
I’m not an engineer, just a basic knucklehead, but my impression/understanding is that vehicles are designed based on their configuration when they leave the factory. That means bearings are chosen based on expected loads, fasteners are sized similarly, frames, suspension components, driveshafts, universal joints, transfer cases, transmissions, engines, cooling systems, etc. are all part of an integrated design.
There was a link somewhere on the forum to a few YouTube videos of some guys in Michigan who took side by sides on tracks to some trails. The trails weren’t particularly challenging, the snow wasn’t especially deep, and they weren’t that far from "civilization”. But they tore stuff up bigly. And they way they did it was bigly expensive, too. Beating the snot out of a vehicle isn’t my idea of fun, and neither is taking a brand new vehicle and bolting a bunch of very expensive stuff to it that the vehicle wasn’t designed for. I don’t think it’s going to end well. That’s another way of saying it’s going to be an expensive lesson.
How far out from the hubs do those Helltraxx tracks protrude? Guess what? That acts like a long lever on the wheel hub bearings and some of the suspension components. Now think of the rotational load turning those tracks takes, and think about the axle shafts, and with an independent front suspension there are CV joints as well. Were they designed for that? Ah...No. That kind of stuff isn’t covered under warranty, and when undersized parts break in the backcountry, who are you going to call to drag your high dollar broken vehicle out? There’s a decent chance that getting it out will cause more damage, too.
Perhaps more importantly, if you break deep in the backcountry and have to walk out, depending on snow conditions, weather, provisions and personal health you could have a no-kidding survival situation. All of a sudden that Uber-expensive SUV with all the creature comforts doesn’t seem so attractive compared to a purpose built snowcat, primitive and spartan as it may be