Old property line dispute ~ REDUX

[Melensdad]

Earlier this summer I posted that I was shooting at my home range and my neighbor called my wife and screamed at her . . . said we were shooting on his land.

I just finished driving some stakes on the property line. . . RIGHT THROUGH WHAT HE THOUGHT WAS HIS BACK YARD :

I'm betting he is going to call at some point. Can't miss the steaks, they are rebar, painted yellow, with reflective yellow flag tape. If he calls I have a perfect excuse to staking it, I actually don't want my new septic field on his property line. The septic guys are coming this week and that is the real reason for staking it because if my contractors go across his lawn and lay in a septic pipe then I really do have a problem and it would be my fault.

We determined the property line several years ago, proved it to him, etc... I produced satellite photos, surveys, all sorts of stuff. Showed him that the corner of his driveway abuts and possibly crosses my property line by a few inches. But the issue never came up with me until this new construction project that we decided to start. We are expanding my workshop into a 5+ car garage with a shop area, with 2 bathrooms and a guest apartment upstairs. The county tax department has it classified as a single family house.

Now I ALSO want to put up a fence. I think it will really piss off my neighbor, but it is my property and I don't want my sister-in-law's dogs crapping in his yard (I am a nice guy). Besides, the guest apartment has windows overlooking that yard area and the main entry to the apartment is his property so I think its very reasonable to have my sister-in-law (the intended guest in the apartment) to have her own yard and not have to share my yard with my neighbor.

I really am not trying to start a war, but I think simply using my own land may do that given that he has been using it (with my permission) for the past several years.

 

[muleman]

Keep the fence 2 ft on your side of the property line. This allows a buffer zone that you have the right to maintain. No need to trespass to trim along the fence or spray weed killer.

 

[BigAl]

Keep the fence 2 ft on your side of the property line. This allows a buffer zone that you have the right to maintain. No need to trespass to trim along the fence or spray weed killer.

damn good point Muley ! Anyway you look at it Bob ,The nieghbor is going to be pissed . My jackass nieghbor next door is the same way .. I just smile and tell him to fuck off . I tell him to go get a survey if he thinks hes right . He knows is isn't and won't pay for one . Cheap bastard

 

[Melensdad]

. . .The nieghbor is going to be pissed. . .

Well I think that even if I put the fence 20 feet on my side of the property line he would be pissed, but I do plan to put the fence 1 or 2 feet over on my side of the line, just to be extra-super-duper-double safe.

He knows I'm right.

In addition to other methods, I've confirmed it multiple times with 2 different gps units, just to make sure the line is straight since the slope and the woods prevent visual line of sight confirmation from front to back.

 

[fogtender]

If you put the fence two feet back, depending on State Law, the guy can claim ownership of it because you "Abandoned" the two foot strip. Best bet is to just put a chainlink fence down the line on your side by a few inches, that way it doesn't need maintance and you don't have to be over there.

Check with your State laws on that though.

 

[fogtender]

Well I think that even if I put the fence 20 feet on my side of the property line he would be pissed, but I do plan to put the fence 1 or 2 feet over on my side of the line, just to be extra-super-duper-double safe.

He knows I'm right.

In addition to other methods, I've confirmed it multiple times with 2 different gps units, just to make sure the line is straight since the slope and the woods prevent visual line of sight confirmation from front to back.

If in doubt, have a surveyor put the boundary pins in, you have a 100% positive line, he sees the guy do it and won't have a pot to piss in, which of course would be yours instead if you were off....

 

[muleman]

Up here it is not abandoned if you maintain it. As for line of sight I have used a 16 ft. 2X4 and a level to plumb it. Tie a balloon with helium to it about in the middle of the 2X4 and you can tell when it is hanging plumb. This lets you sight over small hills easily.

 

[BigAl]

If in doubt, have a surveyor put the boundary pins in, you have a 100% positive line, he sees the guy do it and won't have a pot to piss in, which of course would be yours instead if you were off....

Foggy's 100% right . It may cost you $350 bucks , but it will end the bullshit .

 

[Melensdad]

Up here it is not abandoned if you maintain it. As for line of sight I have used a 16 ft. 2X4 and a level to plumb it. Tie a balloon with helium to it about in the middle of the 2X4 and you can tell when it is hanging plumb. This lets you sight over small hills easily.

There is a 50' elevation drop and all of that drop occurs at the back 1/3rd of the property line. It would take a really long stick.

BTW: It was shot a couple years ago, lasers and all sorts of official stuff.

 

[muleman]

There is a 50' elevation drop and all of that drop occurs at the back 1/3rd of the property line. It would take a really long stick.

BTW: It was shot a couple years ago, lasers and all sorts of official stuff.

Then they will have co-ordinates to throw in some mid point stakes for you.

 

[jpr62902]

If you put the fence two feet back, depending on State Law, the guy can claim ownership of it because you "Abandoned" the two foot strip. Best bet is to just put a chainlink fence down the line on your side by a few inches, that way it doesn't need maintance and you don't have to be over there.

Check with your State laws on that though.

Typically, adverse possession requires some overt occupancy that is both adverse to the owner, and for a period of 21 years straight. YMMV.

 

[jimbo]

States vary, in Virginia, the adverse posssession is 15 years. IMO, your best is to put the fence on the property line as staked by a licensed surveyor.

 

[spiffywebcreations]

Go the surveyor route - that way there is no question.

we just went throught this as well...

our property was part of a larger farm, and along one side is the back side of homes along a neighboring street...they were there before we bought and built our home. There was kind of a natural "tree" line were some junk trees and weeds had grown up, and although we knew about where the line was - everyone just used the natural line as a guide.

The one neighbor would come around the corner and dump his stuff on our side of the nautral line - and my wife told them to stop...so then they dumped all along the natural line - including food - which then brought rats.

so this past spring, we hear a bobcat running, and they hired a guy to come in and clear all the brush and stuff out - luckily they didn't take out the trees - junk or not.

it actually looked pretty nice (at least my son and I thought so) but then my wife and MIL saw it and flipped out...she hired a surveyor to come out and mark the line...at some points they were 20 feet or more into our property...I'll skip over the part where the neighbor came out and got into a shouting match with my MIL.

so next week my brother in law is coming up to run a 3 wire fence and plant barberry along the line - 2-3 feet inside...

 

[Dargo]

I'm also lucky enough to have a nice issue with a neighbor to a 6 acre parcel I own that's about 2 miles from my house. I bought the wooded parcel that is on the end of a dead end paved road. It has all utilities except sewer right across the front of the property. Since our area is growing, I thought it a good investment in case one of my children would want to build relatively close to me in the future.

Anyway, after a VERY expensive survey (had to go almost 1/2 mile to a state verified official survey point), it seems that one neighbor is using about 60' of my property as their property and even has a very large yard barn built on my property. After an ugly, but brief, meeting between our attorneys, they are removing their building and will cease using my property as theirs. I did not ask for anything in damages.

On the other side of the property a fella was nice enough to put up a fence the entire northern length of the property. The problem is that the fence is between 18" and 24" on my property the entire length. Worse yet, he put a gate in the fence and last week he "harvested" a nice large ash tree for firewood! This tree was huge. He said he did me a favor because it was dying and had those nasty ash killing bugs in it.

By the looks of the smaller limbs (he didn't want for firewood and left laying on my property), the tree seemed healthy enough for me. I hate to be a jerk, but he's really pushing the issue. Back to the attorneys. First, the fence is now mine and he's not to touch it. Now, I need to get an estimate on the value of an ash tree that appears to be about 60 years old that he cut down and took. He's really pissed me off, and he's going to have to pay. What the f is wrong with people anymore?!

 

[BigAl]

I He's really pissed me off, and he's going to have to pay. What the f is wrong with people anymore?!

You want the long or short version ??? Better yet why don't we get together and write a book about idiots . It will be a best seller .Maybe even make the Orpra Book list !!!!

 

[muleman]

Dargo, get a forester to measure the stump and he will tell you how many board feet of timber was in it. If it is a big one should be worth a few bucks and then some.

 

[Melensdad]

Well my issue seems to be a total NON-issue with my neighbor.

There are yellow flags in "his lawn" marking the property line now. Those flags are roughly 15 to 20' inside the lawn area that he mows and fertilizes but they are the edge of my property. The farther to the west/rear of the property the farther the stakes go into "his" lawn so at the tree line in the rear the stake is probably at the 25+' mark.

I just came in from outside, I was out there with the water well installers and my general contractor and the whole time I was out there my neighbor was working on his property. I was walking around out there before my workers showed up, after they left, and while they were there. I waved to my neighbor, he waved back. No questions for me, no comments. We were within 75' of each other much of the time. Again, he agreed with me the last time this was done, so I think he knows that there is nothing to argue about this time. He realized that I was right the first time I proved the property line to him and I've never been a dick about the property line.

I'm building an extension onto my workshop and when it is done it will be within 50' of my south property line. The new workshop/garage will be 66' wide, have an apartment over it, 5 garage doors across the front, 2 bathrooms and its own well and septic system. The foundation is already in place. Because of the size, the type of construction, and the size of the apartment, the county is considering this as a second single family residence on my property.

Here are a couple of photos. The original workshop had the brick stripped from the common wall, eventually the siding, windows, the eve and part of the roof will be removed. The new addition will be added on to the stripped wall of the workshop. There will be a secondary extension coming off the backside that will be about 26' by 12'.

The real issue may come up when I put a fence in the back area. I want a fence to keep the dogs out of his yard. He really does a great job with his yard, most of the neighborhood is jealous about how nice/green/weed free he keeps his property (about 3 acres) and it really would be bad if any of our dogs were over there pooping on his lawn . . . or worse yet chewing on his little dog. Its one thing to bury some septic lines under the ground, but putting up a 4 rail fence along the property line might create a bit of tension??? I guess that is a bridge I'll cross at a later date (springtime).

 

[Melensdad]

Construction is progressing despite sub-freezing temps, freezing rain and snow. We still don't have a concrete floor, something which is causing some problems for the carpenters, but they are working around it because there is no choice. We had the new septic system installed last week. Today the well was completed. The neighbors are scratching their heads because there has been construction at my home since late May of this year.

Here's the updated photos. They've done a great job of integrating the roof from the old workshop to the new construction. Brick from the original structure was stripped and will be re-used. The entire building will be re-shingled to match the new shingles that I put on the house last month. Overall I'm really happy with the progress and can't believe how much these guys get done despite the cold and the wind. Its a 3 man crew that is doing all the work.

 

[Big Dog]

Very nice Bob! Which bay is Melen's ............... ?

 

[Melensdad]

Which bay is Melen's ............... ?

None of the above. The house has a 3.5 car garage, when she gets a car next year she'll be parking at the house. She and I have a bet going. If she maintains a 4.3 or better grade point average in school (out of a possible 4.0) then she will get my 2010 VW Jetta TDI to drive to school. She is currently studying for finals and has been able to maintain better than a 4.3 so far this semester. It must be maintained for the entire school year. As a sophomore she is taking 1 class for college credit right now (way smarter than me) but I don't want her to finish high school early, which is something she hoped to do so she could start college early.

In this structure one of the bays will be going to my sister-in-law while she lives upstairs. The other 4 bays are for my toys. The 2 bays on the far right are air-conditioned in the summer, they are getting a furnace during this remodel, so those will be heated in the winter when this construction is complete. There is a car lift in the bay on the farthest right, the ceiling is also raised in that area. The 3 newly constructed bays will be unheated and not cooled and will be separated by an interior door that will be cut into the existing wall where one of the windows currently exists.

 

[Dargo]

What's that white shit on the ground?

I don't see any really tall doors either. How are you going to get your bigger toys inside? I put "taller" 8' doors on my house back when I built it. (I can't believe 7' was standard!) My cars will fit. That's about it. My pickup will just clear the top, but it's far too long being a long bed crew cab truck. Besides, being a dually makes it waaaay too close trying to pull inside a 9' wide door.

I thought I was fine with my first barn using a 10' tall and 16' wide main door. My tractor and mowers will fit, but my dump truck, RV and excavator aren't even close for a 10' door. I bent my antenna for my radio on my RV backing in a 14' tall door! You just wait Bob, you'll be buying toys that are too tall. And, how many lifts does that give you now? I have 4 lifts and I wouldn't mind having another to stack more stuff double in my 20' tall barn.

 

[loboloco]

What's that white shit on the ground?

I don't see any really tall doors either. How are you going to get your bigger toys inside? I put "taller" 8' doors on my house back when I built it. (I can't believe 7' was standard!) My cars will fit. That's about it. My pickup will just clear the top, but it's far too long being a long bed crew cab truck. Besides, being a dually makes it waaaay too close trying to pull inside a 9' wide door.

I thought I was fine with my first barn using a 10' tall and 16' wide main door. My tractor and mowers will fit, but my dump truck, RV and excavator aren't even close for a 10' door. I bent my antenna for my radio on my RV backing in a 14' tall door! You just wait Bob, you'll be buying toys that are too tall. And, how many lifts does that give you now? I have 4 lifts and I wouldn't mind having another to stack more stuff double in my 20' tall barn.

Umm, you do realize that if any part of your vehicle exceeds 13'6" it is illegal without a permit? This does include antennas though it is not usually enforced.

 

[Dargo]

Umm, you do realize that if any part of your vehicle exceeds 13'6" it is illegal without a permit? This does include antennas though it is not usually enforced.

I know the laws quite well. Nobody enforces a radio antenna.

 

[loboloco]

I know the laws quite well. Nobody enforces a radio antenna.

Don't say nobody, I got busted for a 14' antenna in Alabama. cost me 200.00 and I had to pay for a fricking christmas decoration.

 

[Dargo]

Don't say nobody, I got busted for a 14' antenna in Alabama. cost me 200.00 and I had to pay for a fricking christmas decoration.

LOL! I stand corrupted...er, um, corrected. Remember the CB heyday in the 70's? I had a 120" (forgot the name) antenna on the bumper of my pickup truck and an illegal linear (I think that was what it was called) booster under my seat. In certain conditions I could talk to people crazy distances away. Apparently I'd come through people's TV sets and radios too.

Anyway, I got a ticket for my antenna being too tall and driving with my fog lights on. Man, I just knew I was going to get it for beer in my truck, the booster and who knows what else. The jerkweed took a pair of side cuts and cut my antenna off on top of the ticket! That really hurt because that antenna probably cost me a week's pay back then! Obviously, that was back before lawyers and police brutality etc. Bob probably didn't have a CB in his BMW though, did you Bob? Remember guys, I literally did live in the fraternity on the 'wrong' side of the tracks.

 

[loboloco]

^. Yeah, after getting over my being pissed off I thought it was kind of funny. But, I did get even. Seems it is illegal to hang a sign or emblem over a road under 15' without a special permit from the state(at least in Alabama).

 

[loboloco]

Sorry Mel, I think we jacked your thread for a time.

 

[NorthernRedneck]

I'll get this ship righted!

Back in '94 when I was still in high school living with the parents, we moved out to the lake. We had the property surveyed. The property was 1.8 acres of lakefront property. We were all surprised when the guys came to do the survey. The neighbor 'bout crapped his pants when he realized where the property lines actually ran. The properties were all the same size but due to the lay of the land, they came back straight from the lakeshore about 200' then shot to the left at a 45 degree angle. There were four houses there and everyone thought that the properties ran straight back. The neighbor had a guest house on what he thought was his property. He was surprised when the stakes were layed and about 1 acre of wooded area across the road he thought was his for the past 30 years was actually ours. The property line actually cut right through the middle of his guest cabin. We joked on how we were gonna install a door on the side of his guest house that was on our property then use half the house. He kinda got screwed on that deal. His property line actually did the same thing as ours. Only 3/4's of his property was eaten up by road allowance. Good thing we all got along. It was just a small guest house on posts. His place was just a summer camp so it wasn't hard to jack it up and move it over a few feet.

The neighbor 2 doors down was happy though because he originally thought his property was taken up by road allowance but in reality, only a very small portion of the road passed on his property.

 

[Ice Queen]

Coo!!!

 

[RedRocker]

That's really nice, can't have too much garage!