Not Seeing the "Value"

[HankScorpio]

Current project:

Finished project:

Spryte was $7000. Its a wide track and runs. Needs some love but its complete.

 

[mkntrakes]

Funny you compare 1200 B wide track to 1200c standard track. If you want your 7000 back i will take your 1200 B

 

[HankScorpio]

Wasn't comparing anything, you asked to see my project. Just posted up what I have to show that I do in fact have an idea of how much time and money is involved in making these machines ready for the mountains.

@Blackfoot Tucker started this thread as a discussion of how the prices of machines that are not snow worthy are seeing high prices and the ones that are snow ready have gone through the roof. I agree with his thoughts, the market has gone crazy. I feel that there are 2 classes of working cats out there also. Ones that are usable around personal property, running around the pasture, where a breakdown just means limping it back to the barn. The 2nd being machines that are ready to venture into the mountains where the consequences are significant.

The prices are not reflecting the work and money needed to make a project ready for either of these situations. Someone new to cats is going to get way in over their heads. Not the sellers responsibility to educate the buyer, used equipment has always been buyer beware. I don't know what is pushing the prices up, more cabins needing access, more backcountry skiing, scarcity?

I just happened to be looking at craigslist the other day, I always look at the snowmobiles, I hang out in the snow. We had just been discussing pricing when I saw your cat and to me it was priced too high. You did call it a project, many others would have said "just needs a window and ready to go" so I don't feel you were trying to misrepresent the cat.

 

[mkntrakes]

I believe the only person to judge value of something your selling is the guy trying to buy it! Always remember some day you may want to sell something!

 

[tomelroy]

I want that tucker with blade! Cash or trade?

If you are not seeing the value, you just don’t realize that what you are actually seeing is the devalue….of your dollar.

 

[alryA]

You can always make an offer....

 

[sheep_mtn]

These prices surprised me:

This 2009 Scout sold at auction today for $75,500 + $7550 buyers fee + $3586 tax = $86,636 total. This one has the older gas engine.

The 2010 Maxey trailer also sold for $8416 + $842 buyers fee + $400 tax = $9657 total.

 

[Blackfoot Tucker]

Jon,

I agree with you on those prices. This past fall WBJ1 told me a neighbor of his in Colorado paid $110K for a 2016 PB Scout. I was dumbfounded. And it was not a low hour machine....

I look at the Bring a Trailer website from time to time and occasionally will follow a vehicle out of curiosity. Most of the time I'm surprised by how much the winning bid was.

 

[Solrus]

Should list my Maxey trailer at the auction

 

[Daver]

Well, he will probably be pissed at me but I stand by my opinion. I don't see the "value" here.

Just got mine going raises cab 6 inches to put normal seats in it? Cut rusted bottom out and put new metal ! Fun machine not sure what it’s worth

 

[1boringguy]

Prices being what they are. But considering the source, this is pretty surely what something more than an 'Imron Overhaul' looks like.

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[redsqwrl]

Prices being what they are. But considering the source, this is pretty surely what something more than an 'Imron Overhaul' looks like.

https://m.facebook.com/groups/513423092129226/permalink/2247724578699060/

View attachment 144905

to be fair this machine is like a unicorn on the hot crazy matrix. It is truely one of a kind and has a niche customer. Danny Gates in top knotch and that price is likely low if it came out of his shop. with all that said, this rig would not fit into my program. Would I like to own it sure, but I need to have the machines serve a purpose and I don't have one for this.
Hydrostatic
narrow track
pretty heavy Vplow
cool but not for me. for comparison a Bombardier Br160 is its comparable.

 

[1boringguy]

to be fair this machine is like a unicorn on the hot crazy matrix. It is truely one of a kind and has a niche customer. Danny Gates in top knotch and that price is likely low if it came out of his shop. with all that said, this rig would not fit into my program. Would I like to own it sure, but I need to have the machines serve a purpose and I don't have one for this.
Hydrostatic
narrow track
pretty heavy Vplow
cool but not for me. for comparison a Bombardier Br160 is its comparable.

Yea might not be everyone's fit, just saying from what I've seen of Danny Gates work and the look of this the 'value ' is here. Like you say, maybe undervalued. I know the work on my 1644 is coming in way over this price.

 

[Blackfoot Tucker]

1BG,

I can very definitely commiserate on the costs of snowcat restoration/modification... And lately I've been unpleasantly surprised at how much MORE things cost.

Here are other links for those who don't care for Facebook:

Snowcat Classifieds

Snowcat classifieds, Snow cat for sale

www.snowcatservice.com

Thiokol 1440 IMP SNOWCAT

$35,000.00 Thiokol 1440 IMP SNOWCAT for sale in Bear River, WY on KSL Classifieds. View a wide selection of Snowmobiles Used and other great items on KSL Classifieds.

classifieds.ksl.com

I'm kinda not "seein' it"....

Certainly a LOT of money was spent on this machine, so in terms of money and time spent there is a lot of value at that price point. But at the end of the day... it's still a two door Imp, and not even a wide track at that. IMLTHO (In My Less Than Humble Opinion) I just don't think this was the machine to pour money into by the bucketful.... (Mike Mikelle might disagree!)

I'm not knowledgeable about the Ford I-6 engines, but from what I understand the 240 differs from the more common 300 by virtue of the crankshaft and a few other parts. So, less power with roughly equal weight. Hmmm. Why? (When Thiokol introduced the 1450 "Super Imp, they chose the 200 I-6. It's referred to as one of Ford's "small 6s", whereas the 240 is a "big 6".)

And the Boss V-plow????

Snowcats are often thought of in term of flotation and snow pressure. "X" amount of weight divided by the track's surface area in contact with snow. That makes for a simple calculation, but I think there's more to it. Ideally, the weight would be evenly distributed; both front-to-back, and side-to-side. But look at this Imp: lots of weight up front.

When thinking about weight distribution you have to consider the moment arm of that weight. To illustrate, imagine a fulcrum with a platform on top. Now add equal weight on each side of the fulcrum, the same distance from the fulcrum. It balances. Now move the weight on one side of the fulcrum further out and that side is now "heavier". If you put a scale under the fulcrum the total weight is actually the same, but due to the longer moment arm one side is "heavier". But if one side is heavier, and the total weight is the same, that means the opposite side is "lighter". Now, think about that 500 pound plow hanging off the front of the Imp.

It's certainly a pretty machine, but I wonder how it will perform in deep snow....

 

[1boringguy]

BFT,

Yea it wouldn't be my cup of tea either, but everyone has different wants/needs. The best anyone can do is learn from considerations shared by more experienced people like yourself. And second best is by use on the snow. The first is lots cheaper of course.

I don't know Danny Gates but other people seem to have a respect for him and his work. And what I've seen of his work, it seems he's knowledgeable and competent when it comes toThiokols. This cat looks to me like a good example of one that has actually had a lot of quality work put into it. An example of, if it trips your trigger, actually worth going and putting your eye on. As opposed to some others we've seen. A lot of people are ok starting with a 'project ', as it's a cheaper starting point, even though might not have a cheaper end point. That's all good as long as a person can somewhat understand and recognize the difference in what they are buying.

$.02

 

[Snowcat Pat]

I don't buy and sell snowcats but in my opinion the 1440 is worth the asking price.

What are the alternatives? https://denver.craigslist.org/hvo/d/fraser-snow-rabbit-snowcats/7443134464.html ?
-Pat

 

[PJL]

That Rabbit is a cool looking little rig. Anyone have any experience with those?

 

[alryA]

That Rabbit is a cool looking little rig. Anyone have any experience with those?

We heard from some guys in Montana grooming there XC trails with one. They loved it. That is the only report I've ever read. They are Italian made.

 

[The Sweet Wbj1]

Bob,

Over the years I’ve found if you wait, you can find a decent snowcat at a reasonable price. But you have to be willing to wait, and you have to jump when the opportunity arises. This fall I noticed the number of used snowcats for sale was less than normal, and now we’re seeing more for sale, but at much higher asking prices.

I follow the general aviation market and prices for airplanes have skyrocketed. “Nice” airplanes are selling for a lot of money. By “nice” I’m saying airplanes that have been well maintained, have no damage history, and have been upgraded with desirable features. Currently, I’m told many sales are happening behind the scenes before airplanes are even listed for sale. In some cases, it’s word of mouth, and in others brokers are calling people they know own a particular model of airplane to see if they might sell.

Traditionally, the smart way to buy a used airplane has been to have a thorough pre-buy inspection done by the buyer’s choice of mechanic (at his expense). The cost to fix any discrepancies that are considered airworthy are then negotiated between buyer and seller. But the current market is so overheated that many buyers are making offers without the pre-buy inspection contingency... because they know the seller will very likely get another offer very soon without that pre-buy requirement. It’s a virtual certainty many buyers are going to learn an expensive lesson when their newly purchased airplane needs an annual inspection... and a bunch of costly issues come up.

At this point I’m expecting a return to historical pricing norms for snowcats and airplanes, but when that will happen... I don’t have a clue.

But it seems just about everything is more expensive. I just received a real estate market snapshot for my neighborhood. Comparing 2021 to 2020, the average price per square foot rose 28.5 percent and the average time on the market for the homes sold dropped from 36 days to 9. It seems, well... crazy.

This reminds me of an old saying "Never feel sorry for a man with a plane"!

 

[Bobcatbob]

Saw this pop up recently….”1996 Bombardier ATV”……$25k. It’s getting crazy out there!

1996 Bombardier snowmobile Perkins diesel cme drill rig - atvs,...

1996 Bombardier atv with winch. Perkins diesel. Runs and drives. Had a cme 45 drill mounted to it. Cash or gold and silver trade

chicago.craigslist.org

 

[Bennyboy1337]

Saw this pop up recently….”1996 Bombardier ATV”……$25k. It’s getting crazy out there!

1996 Bombardier snowmobile Perkins diesel cme drill rig - atvs,...

1996 Bombardier atv with winch. Perkins diesel. Runs and drives. Had a cme 45 drill mounted to it. Cash or gold and silver trade

chicago.craigslist.org

Let me just dump 5 gallons of CAT yellow on her, that should increase they value by $10,000

 

[Bobcatbob]

Let me just dump 5 gallons of CAT yellow on her, that should increase they value by $10,000

Lol…..I think it’s “Old” Cat yellow…..deeper yellow. I noticed the hub of the “overspray” exhaust fan had a fresh coat. Im hoping J5 or Red Squirrel will jump in with what this machine is really worth.

 

[redsqwrl]

I bite my tongue pretty hard these days. The reason is the gap between purpose and price. If you need to go over the snow. What are your options.
New _$____________
Used __$ __________

I learned long ago the relationship between price and value, is solely the buyers issue.
Many folks fail to realize the fact that their opinion is just that, Their opinion.
A random person observing these sales does not know if the buyer saved a day, week or 3 years for their purchase.
I have on average 2 people bugging me with offers on items that may or may not be for sale monthly. I have been through these ebbs and tides with rock crawling equipment, Rally racing machines, Real estate and my current hobby is over the snow transportation, Won't be long and I will shove my mess up on a pile and put a price on it, Hell maybe an auction is in order. to the drill rig price check, I clicked the add and it appears the add is expired.

 

[Blackfoot Tucker]

Resurrecting the thread with this:

Snowcat With Trailer and Groomer (Sold Separately)

$54,000.00 Snowcat With Trailer and Groomer (Sold Separately) for sale in Sandy, UT on KSL Classifieds. View a wide selection of Snowmobiles Used and other great items on KSL Classifieds.

classifieds.ksl.com

Holy Cr*p...and at the end of the season, no less.

But I must admit, that's the first time I've seen Boss Hog horns on a snowcat!

 

[sheep_mtn]

Sorry folks, but that's way out of line for a 1500. As an '85 it likely has the AMC motor which is the lesser of the two options, and no hydros/blade. From what I can tell, there is zero justification for this outrageous price and it will not sell anywhere close to that. Take 45% off that price and you're in the ballpark.

 

[Pontoon Princess]

Resurrecting the thread with this:

Snowcat With Trailer and Groomer (Sold Separately)

$54,000.00 Snowcat With Trailer and Groomer (Sold Separately) for sale in Sandy, UT on KSL Classifieds. View a wide selection of Snowmobiles Used and other great items on KSL Classifieds.

classifieds.ksl.com

Holy Cr*p...and at the end of the season, no less.

But I must admit, that's the first time I've seen Boss Hog horns on a snowcat!

is this a monster Jeff listing?

 

[Blackfoot Tucker]

Three days later the price is down to $52K.

Snowcat With Trailer and Groomer (Sold Separately)

$54,000.00 Snowcat With Trailer and Groomer (Sold Separately) for sale in Sandy, UT on KSL Classifieds. View a wide selection of Snowmobiles Used and other great items on KSL Classifieds.

classifieds.ksl.com

Is the pricing strategy to ask for the moon and keep dropping it until someone bites?

 

[1boringguy]

And then you see one like this. Apparently there is already a line of takers. Big surprise.

 

[PradoTDI]

And then you see one like this. Apparently there is already a line of takers. Big surprise.

View attachment 147827

Yep. I saw it late the night it was posted and did my best, but there were already too many people in line. Looked like a screaming deal. Detroit 2-stroke diesel, blade on the front and grooming attachment for the rear. The seller claimed it ran great and they used it to maintain their driveway all winter.

 

[PJL]

My vote says it gets flipped and reappears at triple the price.