Two million people died during the Middle Passage.
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New book Defending Dixie's Land: What Every American Should Know About The South And The Civil War
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Two million people died during the Middle Passage.
Historical data, in a broad context, is data collected about past events and circumstances pertaining to a particular subject. By definition, historical data includes most data generated either manually or automatically within an enterprise.
So in other words, the opposite of what you do
A lot more than that would have died if they if they would have stayed where they were. They were guaranteed to die until they were saved by the Americans.
Just pointing out the facts bud. You still haven’t managed to patch up the holes blown in your argument
No, the slavers didn’t “save” anyone, and there is no evidence whatsoever to suggest millions of people would have died without the slave trade.
You're saying that the ones who sold the slaves initially are not held responsible is not accurate.
We know a lot about how Colonial powers exported African and Indigenous peoples to be slaves.
It happened and there were cooperating interests which made it happen.
But that cooperation does not then mean the Rebel South is off the hook with what THEY did to grow an entire Economy based on Slavery. The issue at hand is American History and how the Rebel Confederate States developed, nurtured and ultimately fought to the death to preserve their "way of life" which was a Slave economy.
The argument that they ( the Slave States) had a Constitutional Right to own Slaves and prosper in Slavery is pretty nutty in today's context. I ask this question to these modern Pro Slavery Pro Confederate apologists: "Are you willing to fight to the death against the Federal government for the sake of owning Human beings for profit?" This is the question a contemporary pro Confederate apologist needs to answer. If that is YOUR what you too are advocating, well then..what can I say in response other than you're on the wrong side of history.
There's no "conversation" worthy of any honorable pursuit with the premise that Slavery was a net good nor one which places the Slave owners and Slave States on any moral high ground.Finally a discussion! Thank you.
Multiple times in my book I mention slaves like Douglass faced terrible conditions, my book deals with the MAJORITY of slaves. Unlike those who desire to take a few dozen prominent examples (that all portray the worst of slavery, Douglass, Booker T Washington etc) I look at the rule not the exception. But first, lets see what I actually said. Here is what I said
"Even famed abolitionist Fredrick Douglass, who often suffered the worst of slavery, said about his diet, "I was much better off in this regard than many of the poor white children in the neighborhood." Douglass learned to read as a child by trading food for reading lessons among white children in Baltimore.
So you have removed the context and purpose of my quote. Your own sources mentioned that he exchanged bread to learn to read. The section title is not Fredrick Douglass Diet; I first addressed the typical slaves diet. Even those who suffered the worst of slavery had variations in their treatment, as Douglass explained if you wish to read from the top the page. Where his master's wife initially treated him very kindly.
"My mistress was, as I have said, a kind and tender-hearted woman; and in the simplicity of her soul she commenced, when I first went to live with her, to treat me as she supposed one human being ought to treat another. In entering upon the duties of a slaveholder, she did not seem to perceive that I sustained to her the relation of a mere chattel, and that for her to treat me as a human being was not only wrong, but dangerously so...When I was sent of errands, I always took my book with me, and by going one part of my errand quickly, I found time to get a lesson before my return. I used also to carry bread with me, enough of which was always in the house, and to which I was always welcome; for I was much better off in this regard than many of the poor white children in our neighborhood. This bread I used to bestow upon the hungry little urchins, who, in return, would give me that more valuable bread of knowledge."
Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass Full Text: Chapter 7 Page 2
Read the full text of Chapter 7 of Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass on Shmoop. As you read, you'll be linked to summaries and detailed analysis of quotes and themes.www.shmoop.com
Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass Full Text: Chapter 7 : Page 2
I could bombard you with hundreds of such examples (I provide over a hundred in my book) of the typical slaves diet, I have provided information already that seems not to phase you, but why do you place Douglass over these slaves? Why do you degrade them?
"Times was sho better long ago den dey be now. I know it…Colored people never had no debt to pay in slavery time. Never hear tell bout no colored people been put in jail fore freedom. Had more to eat en more to wear den en had good clothes all de time 'cause white folks furnish everything, everything. Had plenty peas, en rice, en hog meat, en fish and such as day."
-Sylvia Cannon, South Carolina Slave Narratives
"From what my mammy tell me de slaves in Sumter County mus’ hab had a mighty good time, had plenty of ebery t’ing an nothin to worry bout."
-Henry Garry, Alabama Slave Narratives
"Us useta have some good times. Us could have all de fun us wanted on Sa’dday nights, and us sho’ had it, cutting monkeyshines and dancing all night long…Sometimes our Mistess would come down early to watch us dance."
Sara Colquitt, Alabama Slave Narratives
"Dem was good old days. Us would be lucky to have’ em back again, ‘ specially when harvest time comes ‘round. You could hear Niggers a-singin’in de fields’ cause dey didn’ have no worries lak dey got now. When us got de corn up from de fields, Niggers come from far and nigh to Marster’s cornshuckin’ Dat cornshuckin’ wuk was easy wid evvybody singin’ and havin’ a good time together whilst dey made dem shucks fly....done had de bestes’ time a-goin’ back over dem old times when folkes loved one another better danden dey does now."
-Jasper Battle, Georgia Slave Narratives
"In slavery, us have all de clothes us need, all de food us want, and work all de harder’ cause us
love de white folks dat cared for us. No sirree, none of our slaves ever run’ way. That was a happy time, with happy days. I'll be satisfied to see my Savior that my old marster worshiped and my husband preach about. I wants to be in heaven with all my white folks, just to wait on them and love them, and serve them, sorta like I did in slavery time. That will be enough heaven for Adeline."
- Adeline Johnson, South Carolina Slave Narratives
"Us didn’ know nothing but good times den...de good ole days is now gone foreber. De ole days was railly de good times. How I wish I could go back...but whut's de use dreamin' bout de ole times? Day's gone, and de world is gettin wicked'er and wicked'er, sin grows bolder and bolder, and ‘ligion colder and colder."
-Aunt Charity Anderson, Alabama Slave Narratives
"Marster Charlie an’ Missus Mary wuz good ter de hundred slaves what belonged ter’ em. Dey ‘em good houses,' good feed, good clothes an plenty uv fun. Dey had dere co'n shuckin's, dere barn dances, prayer meetin's an' sich like all de year, an' from Christmas till de second day o January dey had a holiday wid roast oxes, pigs, turkey an all de rest of de fixin's. From Saturday till Monday de slaves wuz off an' dey had dere Sunday clothes, which wuz nice...Dey went up de riber to other plantations ter dances an' all dem things..an' everybody wuz happy...Dey had time off ter hunt an fish an dey had dere own chickens, pigs, watermillons an' gyardens. De fruits from de big orchard an de honey from de hives wuz et at home, an r de slave et as good as his marster et."
-Alice Baugh, North Carolina Slave Narratives
"Old Man Dave seemed to think more of his niggers than anybody and we thunk lots of our white folks...We had good quarters and plenty to eat, I members when I’s jus walkin round good pa come in from the field at night and taken me out of bed and dress me and feed me and then play with me for hours ...us young scraps slep' till eight or nine o’clock.., and don’t you think Massa Dave ain’ comin’; round to see we is fed…master make sure everyone is well fedThen he'd ask if we had 'nough or wanted any more. It look like he taken a pleasure in seein' us eat ...Massa give them li'l crops and let them work them on Saturday. Then he bought the stuff and the niggers go to Jefferson and buy clothes and sech like. Lots saved money and bought freedom 'fore the war was over...On Christmas we had all we could eat and drink and after that a big party, and you ought to see them gals swingin they partners round."
-Will Adams, Texas Slave Narratives
"Dey was good times den. I had plenty to eat, plenty close to wear and when I gets sick, old massa come to give me some medicine... People worship God in dem days...Niggers sho’ was better off in slavery times."
-’Shorty’ Wadley Clemons, Alabama Slave Narratives
"No darky in Harris County that he ever heard of went hungry or suffered for clothes until after freedom."
-Rias Body, Georgia Slave Narratives
You're using quotes to create a false narrative, namely that Slavery was actually a humane and good thing for these poor folks.
Freedom was a net bad.
Slave owners fed and clothed their property because they NEEDED them to work. It certainly would not make economic sense to kill off your main commodity ( Slaves).
But this is where your work is incredibly insidious and why it deserves the criticism you're getting. You use quotes of enslaved folks who were fed to make a contrast against the evils of enslavement.
Your conclusion? The South was a grand ole place ..loving and traditional especially to their human property.
There are hundreds of quotes and many many real recordings of Freed Slaves expressing in their language and in song about the life and torments of being an enslaved person. These are voices of a people in bondage..not free.
The recordings of Freed Slaves which you can access here express similar narratives of being "treated well" by their masters. They had their jobs to do..picking cotton..enjoying their time in the field..preferring to be outdoors rather than indoors so they can take in some fresh air...being a good cotton picker which made their master's happy...etc etc.
These are the narratives of enslaved people who knew their lot in life which was one of labor, servitude and ownership.
Only an morally deprived mind would convert this narrative into a positive image of the South.
What happened to the Slaves who wanted to be freed? Could they pack up and go? Were they fed well or clothed well or educated so they can read and write? Were they escorted safely out from the South to the Free States?
I didn't know there was an argument. Sure don't know what holes you want filled in. There are some holes I don't want to get into.Just pointing out the facts bud. You still haven’t managed to patch up the holes blown in your argument
It is simple. The African slavers wanted only women and children. They didn't want men. Until the time they learned they could sell them they just killed the men. I don't know how many would have been killed and neither do you. The fact remains they were killing all of the men. Those who were sold had a chance of living. Since you know there were lots of men slaves bought by the Americans you could see that the ones who made it through the voyage were alive were saved from certain death. I think the African slavers might have eaten a few, sacrificed a few before killing the left overs.
You know that the number of slaves the Americans bought was only a drop in the bucket to the number of slaves the Africans sold. America was not a customer for the hundred of years they had been selling slaves to many other countries. The Americans were only buying slaves for about 250 years. Americans only bought 4-6% of the slaves. Most of the rest went to Brazil.
Can you give a few examples how the original owners of the slaves are being held responsible? Somehow I haven't heard a word about that. What economy did they grow? The South fought for the right to make their own decisions instead of being ruled by others. If I remember right there was another war fought about nearly the same thing. Even now we hear about State Rights. The South was not the only place where slaves were kept. Where did the other 94-96% of the slaves go? What about the countries who had been buying slaves hundreds of years before there was even a United States? What about the countries which still buy and sell slaves?
I am not apologizing for anyone. You do realize I do not have any slaves? What do I have to apologize for? There is not a single person in the South that has ever owned a slave and there isn't a single person in the South that has ever been a slave. You need to get over the things that happened back in the history of the United States. Worry more about what is happening today. Think about our wide open borders. Take a little notice of those who do not know the difference in a man and a woman. Check into your president who has sold out our country to make his family rich. You cannot do a single thing about what happened more than a hundred years ago. There is more than enough for you to worry about that is happening right now. Wake the hell up.
Let me ask you a question. Would you rather be killed or take the chance of living? All of the people who came to the U.S. were taking a chance. They made that choice. Some died but some made it. The slaves had a choice if they would rather be a slave and live or refuse to be a slave and be killed. Tha was a decision they made before they even heard of Americans. Remember they were already slaves when the Americans bought them. If you were in their place what would you choose to do?
Sounds like you need to start paying attention then, instead of vomiting up racist nonsense like “slaves couldn’t count past three”.
Seeing as two million people died during the Middle Passage, your false equivalence is comical.
Another desperate attempt to defend slavery falls flat.
Seeing as, once again, two million people died on the Middle Passage, the argument that they were “saved” by being ensnared is comical.
Hundreds of thousands of Southern slavers fought and died to try and protect slavery. Your attempts to excuse that are pathetic.
Where I live there are many who get through twelve years of schooling and still cannot read or write.
What makes you think I am racist. Really i am a realist. I do not live in some fantasy land.
Do you know how many made it safely here? I think you are exaggerating your numbers. Maybe the slaves are not the only people who cannot count.
The people to blame for their ensnarement are their own people. They were already slaves when the Americans bought them. The people who ensnared them were going to kill all of the men. For some reason you seem to forget about that. If the Americans would not have bought them they would have been killed. How many do you think had already been killed before the slavers found out the Americans would buy them. You sure seem not to know much about slavery. How far did you go in school or are you still in grade school?
Nope, the people to blame for the Confederacy’s actions are the Confederates.
Something you seem quite desperate to avoid facing.
Coming from the guy who claimed slaves “couldn’t count” that’s comical.
I already provided a source proving my statement. You whining because you don’t like having to face reality doesn’t change it.
Tens of thousands of former slaves joined up with the USCTs....and helped kick the asses of their “masters”, performing well in battle after battle.
All the racist drivel about slaves not knowing how to count, the idea that people should be “grateful” for being enslaved, the apologism for the Confederacy....
I live in Mississippi. From the way you are talking we were sending in oil tankers to haul all of the slaves out of Africa. It must have kept the slavers in Africa busy catching all of those slaves. With the millions you say we brought to America along with the millions you said died on the way we must have been sending oil tankers to pick them up.There are many slaves where you live? Really?
You mentioned that we were in an argument. You are going to have to pick up your end up your end up a little. You just keep repeating the same numbers you have been pulling out of your ass.
JUST A REMINDER, directed to all participants, we are not in the "debate" area of the forums. As such, we do require a reasonable amount of civility in our non-debate areas. So
So as a moderator, I'll just suggest that we have probably exhausted this thread.
Nobody's mind is being changed. We don't want to close the thread, but the back-and-forth bickering and use of very questionable 'facts' should probably just self-extinguish so we moderators don't have to make any harsh choices.
So as a moderator, I'll just suggest that we have probably exhausted this thread.
Nobody's mind is being changed. We don't want to close the thread, but the back-and-forth bickering and use of very questionable 'facts' should probably just self-extinguish so we moderators don't have to make any harsh choices.
Frankly it is shocking to me that anyone should take a "pro slavery" or sympathetic approach to Slave Owners position.
We all should know out of common decency that it is an egregiously immoral institution.
The facts are that the South fought to preserve it and they fought like Hell to the bitter end.
And yet, despite this undeniable reality, there are sides to take on the issue?
I do not see it as an issue with an alternative narrative that is Just or Moral at all.
Some people are just curious why the people who gathered up and kept slaves were not blamed for anything when they sold the slaves to other people.
I’m curious why this thread is even going on. As a mod I’m sot stopping it. But slavery is reprehensible. It continues to this day in some parts of the world. It’s unforgivable and not defendable. But it is part of human history. It’s been part of our history for well over 2000 years. Apparently we are still not wise enough to eliminated it. It’s affected virtually every population in every region of the earth. Sadly some people still engage in it
The main argument I see going on here is that one side blames the slaveholders only and lays no blame on the African kings capturing and selling there people into slavery, and the other side is upset about that. I see that no-one has condoned slavery only upset that the end user ( drug addict ) is getting the blame over the slave sellers ( drug dealers ). Thats what I see anyway??
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