They need to access the top of the reared and take some pictures of the top of the transmission and controls
May have to remove a cover
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Need Some Advice About Our Remote Cabin Property
- Thread starter IMPossible
- Start date
May have to remove a cover
Weren't the Wisconsin engine equipped machines designated as 1402s?
I believe the 1404 uses the Ford V4 engine. The Wisconsin engine was rated at 30 HP, and the Ford V4 was, IIRC, 68, or so....
Loneoutrider
Member
The closeup picture of the front end shows an access door that should go to radiator cap. The lower part of the body has a hole in the center that I would think was for hand crank starting. 30 hp Wisconsin OK! Had those on hay bailer as a teenager (at 130 lbs I wasn’t able to make it happen), I don’t think hand cranking the Ford would be likely. Also didn’t see a hand crank coupling or reference to hand cranking in the operator/parts manual!
It really sounds like a 1402 -- no transmission (i.e., just the gear box in the rear end), the engine controls and instruments are on the side of the doghouse, the shape of the body is definitely 1402-esque, and the exhaust is on the wrong side for a V4 (the V4 comes out on the passenger side). I can't imagine how they'd set up the drivetrain for a V4 w/o a transmission. The tracks are also odd -- I've never seen asymmetric tracks on an Imp, but the grousers don't look like they've been modified. Maybe this was a "let's try something new" Imp and they were playing w/ wider tracks on an 1402 frame that had bogies and sprockets set up for standard tracks?
Ron
Ron
IMPossible
New member
I don't know if this helps at all, but I got a sheet from Peterson equipment with some specs on it.
It say's it has the Ford V4 in it but I wasn't able to find any reference to the transmission or anything. I'll attach it and let y'all take a peek.
I'll be with the Imp later today and would be happy to take pictures of anything needed.
It say's it has the Ford V4 in it but I wasn't able to find any reference to the transmission or anything. I'll attach it and let y'all take a peek.
I'll be with the Imp later today and would be happy to take pictures of anything needed.
IMPossible
New member
So I'm about to take a bunch of pictures of various things to show y'all but just as a preliminary update:
I ran a compression test on 3 of the cylinders (one of the cylinders was too hard to get to without removing the alternator[?I think]).
1: 125
2: 130
3: 110 (it seemed to stick at 90 for a crank or two and then kept moving up to 110)
I'm not sure if that says anything. This was my first time doing a compression test and I'm sure I didn't do it 100% correct, however, I read that you only need to have 4-5 cranks and people were saying maybe a couple more until the needle stop moving... I had to do around 30+ cranks per cylinder to get it max out. I had to switch the battery out because it was doing a number on it.
Anyway, not sure if that means anything, let me know if it does. The 4th cylinder still had the spark plug in it but was disconnected.
It's definitely the ford V4 engine (will post pics) and it looks like the shifter connects directly to the rear diff (it looks like the pictures previously mentioned by @PJL) I'll post some pics of that portion of the rear diff and the engine.
I ran a compression test on 3 of the cylinders (one of the cylinders was too hard to get to without removing the alternator[?I think]).
1: 125
2: 130
3: 110 (it seemed to stick at 90 for a crank or two and then kept moving up to 110)
I'm not sure if that says anything. This was my first time doing a compression test and I'm sure I didn't do it 100% correct, however, I read that you only need to have 4-5 cranks and people were saying maybe a couple more until the needle stop moving... I had to do around 30+ cranks per cylinder to get it max out. I had to switch the battery out because it was doing a number on it.
Anyway, not sure if that means anything, let me know if it does. The 4th cylinder still had the spark plug in it but was disconnected.
It's definitely the ford V4 engine (will post pics) and it looks like the shifter connects directly to the rear diff (it looks like the pictures previously mentioned by @PJL) I'll post some pics of that portion of the rear diff and the engine.
Loneoutrider
Member
Unless cyl 4 is really weak the engine looks not to be a problem. Seeing as he was only using first and sometimes second gear, could he change drive sprockets to get a lower gearing, more torque? It doesn’t sound like high speed is a must have for his use. I have no idea what Imp speeds are.
My TrackMaster does about 20 on groomed trail and my Snow Master a blistering 12 or 13 in same conditions. Maybe 10 to 15 minutes difference on my normal 11+ mile trip. Time usually more affected by slowing down for snowmobile moguls.
My TrackMaster does about 20 on groomed trail and my Snow Master a blistering 12 or 13 in same conditions. Maybe 10 to 15 minutes difference on my normal 11+ mile trip. Time usually more affected by slowing down for snowmobile moguls.
IMPossible
New member
IMPossible
New member
Some thoughts: Top speed on the imp is supposedly 25mph, I assume thats in fourth going downhill. We were able to get it into third for a time. but generally we stayed in first and second. On the way down I think we probably could have kept it in 2nd and 3rd but we were having some clutch problems and we didn't want to risk it not going into gear. First gear feels like it's pretty low, but that's a pretty relative, it didn't feel like a crawler gear in a jeep, but it definitely felt like a first gear.
So all of this being said, coming back to our original problem of not being able to climb the 35% grade hill. Can this machine handle that? We know that the clutch is starting to go out, could that influence it bogging down when climbing steeper hills? Maybe it just needs some love generally? (change out filters, fluids, spark plugs, etc.)
Because of the elevation, we will likely have snow all the way into May maybe even June so we have a couple more trips up there this season and we would love to be able to use this thing. Thanks again everyone for your comments and help. Looking forward to getting this solved.
So all of this being said, coming back to our original problem of not being able to climb the 35% grade hill. Can this machine handle that? We know that the clutch is starting to go out, could that influence it bogging down when climbing steeper hills? Maybe it just needs some love generally? (change out filters, fluids, spark plugs, etc.)
Because of the elevation, we will likely have snow all the way into May maybe even June so we have a couple more trips up there this season and we would love to be able to use this thing. Thanks again everyone for your comments and help. Looking forward to getting this solved.
IMPossible
New member
It does have the 2 transmissions. It's a 1974. It had a really hard time warming up and the exhaust was not connected correctly so it was loud and intoxicating in the cab. Not a great experience. it eventually made it to the property but when it was first started it could barely climb a small hill. We did let it warm up for 20 minutes or so while loading gear, but we had to eventually just ferry the people on snowmobiles while I putt putted on the trail. After it was warm it did alright but I could feel that something was wrong. One of the break bands was barely working so turning was a nightmare. I thought that the the carburetor needed some love (it definitely needs some carb work), but it turns out the clutch/transmission/ujoint decided to give out on us when we tried to return the next day.
We definitely should have gotten it looked at before we took it out, we were just excited to see it run in the wild.
It's hard to compare the two since I only got to drive the '74 the one time and it really wasn't running great and there wasn't a lot of snow.
We were thinking about having Dan (I think he's on here) @catservice come up in one of his good Thiokols just to show us around and gather as much knowledge from an experienced snowcat operator as we can. We're also considering just taking the '64 into him so he can take a peek and we can get to the bottom of this. I just wanted to see if it was an easily identifiable problem as I'm somewhat handy and have worked with atvs/motorcycles/utvs in the past. We also just wanted to see if the performance we got out of it was standard or abnormal.
We definitely should have gotten it looked at before we took it out, we were just excited to see it run in the wild.
It's hard to compare the two since I only got to drive the '74 the one time and it really wasn't running great and there wasn't a lot of snow.
We were thinking about having Dan (I think he's on here) @catservice come up in one of his good Thiokols just to show us around and gather as much knowledge from an experienced snowcat operator as we can. We're also considering just taking the '64 into him so he can take a peek and we can get to the bottom of this. I just wanted to see if it was an easily identifiable problem as I'm somewhat handy and have worked with atvs/motorcycles/utvs in the past. We also just wanted to see if the performance we got out of it was standard or abnormal.
This is one of the reasons I gave up on old snowcats, like boats they are a money pit and could leave you walking in deep snow. Unless you completely rebuild one 100% you will chase problems one to the next. At the elevation you are at, you really need something with EFI and low hours. My .02
Clearly the engine in the'74 wasn't running properly, and as you indicated that would make an invalid comparison. That said, elevation and snow conditions make a huge difference in performance. A general rule of thumb is that a normally aspirated engine loses 3% of it's power for every 1,000' gain in elevation above sea level. At 8,000 feet you're down about 25%. And if the engine is running poorly, you're that much worse off.
My "snowcat buddy" and I work on snowcat projects a lot of weeknights after hours at his shop in SLC. We are NOT looking to take on any more projects, but if you want to come by and chat/see what mischief we're up to, consider this an invitation. Scott is the brains and talent, not me, but your welcome to stop by. At present we have three Tuckers, a DMC 1450 and a Thiokol 1200C at the shop in various stages of assembly and functionality.
Some might say we are a bad influence when it comes to snowcats. (Okay, probably most people would say that.)
IMPossible
New member
I'm thinking I better walk into the shop with 2 pockets full of cash...
I may take you up on that invitation.
How hard is it to rebuild the clutch in the rear diff? Would rejetting the carburetor help at all?
We've got a trip planned for march 26-27 and I'm wanting to bring the ole' imp and prove that she can make it.
I may take you up on that invitation.
How hard is it to rebuild the clutch in the rear diff? Would rejetting the carburetor help at all?
We've got a trip planned for march 26-27 and I'm wanting to bring the ole' imp and prove that she can make it.
IMPossible
New member
Alrighty,
The clutch is clearly going out on it as it could barely make it up my driveway and I'd like to attempt to replace it myself.
Can someone tell me what I'm looking at?
General instructions to get to the clutch?
Here are some pics:
I've also posted on another thread to try and get as much info as possible and because I felt it more properly fit in the repairs section.
The clutch is clearly going out on it as it could barely make it up my driveway and I'd like to attempt to replace it myself.
Can someone tell me what I'm looking at?
General instructions to get to the clutch?
Here are some pics:
I've also posted on another thread to try and get as much info as possible and because I felt it more properly fit in the repairs section.
Attachments
call the good people at Minnesota outdoors, there is a guy in Utah that knows imps well, sorry I dont have his name or number,
Loneoutrider
Member
Probably you have already been there!
The picture with the Funk ID plate sent me to off to Google land. It sound like oil issues in the Funk transmission can imitate a bad clutch ie. sluggish or weak performance.
Seems like the Funk transmissions were widely used in farm tractors, but I couldn’t find a specific application for the 38000 transmission. Maybe a call to an old grey haired tractor mechanic would answer some questions.
Not meaning to be obnoxious, these kinds of problems intrigue me.
The picture with the Funk ID plate sent me to off to Google land. It sound like oil issues in the Funk transmission can imitate a bad clutch ie. sluggish or weak performance.
Seems like the Funk transmissions were widely used in farm tractors, but I couldn’t find a specific application for the 38000 transmission. Maybe a call to an old grey haired tractor mechanic would answer some questions.
Not meaning to be obnoxious, these kinds of problems intrigue me.
PJL
Well-known member
Funk Pump Drive Manual | manualzz.com
manualzz.com
Funk manual. Looks like you have a 28000 series.