Military Patrolling the Mexican Border ........

[Junkman]

The president has suggested that the National Guard assist the Border Patrol in securing our border with Mexico.... read the news story here... The President of Mexico, Fox, is worried that it will become a military enforced border. To me, the President of Mexico should have his own border patrol to keep the Mexican citizens from illegally crossing over into the US. I would like to see this resolved by the US building a wall, just like that which Israel is building to secure their borders. If you read what Mexico does to citizens of other countries that illegally enter their country, you have to wonder why they think that we should tolerate there citizens that enter our country illegally. I believe that it is time to change some of the laws that we presently have and declare that any child born of illegal parents in the US is not an American citizen. Other countries don't just give citizenship because you are born there of illegal parents, why should we??? If our industries can't survive without illegal immigrants, the they should just go out of business. I know that I can't hire an illegal immigrant and pay sub standard wages in Massachussetts...... why should industry be allowed to get away with this practice in other states? If California, Texas, etc. have such a difficult problem with illegal immigrants, the time has come to crack down on those that attract them with promises of employment... Junk..

 

[Dutch-NJ]

The president has suggested that the National Guard assist the Border Patrol in securing our border with Mexico....

“Suggested”?????

When I read your words, I had to read the link you supplied. You weren’t far off.

“Bush Wants Military Border Patrol”......
should read
“Bush Orders Military Border Patrol”...... (Bush is the Commander-In-Chief)

“Lawmakers Fear Using National Guard To Stop Illegal Immigration Will Overtax Military”
should read
"Lawmakers Fear Losing Hispanic Vote If They Uphold And Enforce American Law"

“Will Overtax Military” ????? Who’s kidding who?

It won’t take that many American troops to kick ass and take names and maybe cap a few drug dealers.

The aspiring undocumented workers will fall in line PDQ.

 

[Junkman]

The gutless politicians in Washington are more like ostriches than representatives of the people. Like you said, they are afraid of loosing the vote of those that are here legally that want to protect those that are here illegally. At some point in time, if the US doesn't get the illegal immigration under control, then there will be no need for a congress. The country will be taken over and run by those that are criminals. From what I have read, many members of the gangs of LA are illegal immigrants, as well as a lot of our prison population. I have always espoused that we should treat other countries the way that they treat us. If they have high tariffs on our products or restrictive laws concerning immigration, then we should do the same. This might not be a popular philosophy to take, but it has worked well for some other countries. When Japan set up high tariffs against French perfume and wines, the French retaliated by setting up only one place that was located in the center of the country where Japanese goods could be inspected by customs. That meant that the boats had to be unloaded and the goods trucked to this city for inspection. That backed up the boats waiting to be unloaded and they were stuck a few miles out at sea. The stalemate lasted about a month before the Japanese government relented and lifted the tariffs. Generally speaking, I don't like the way that the French operate, but this was one time that they had a good idea and implemented it. If we were to do the same to other countries as they do to us, we would not have these problems. Seems that President Fox wants the illegal immigration problem to continue, but he doesn't' want his citizens shot in the desert by our troops when they try to sneak over the border. I say that if the Mexican government wanted to solve the problem that they would and could do it. The Russians did it in East Germany until they tore the wall down. Now, it is time for us to build the wall. Not to keep our citizens in, but to protect our citizens from those that won't or can't enter the country legally. At all of our ports of entry, the government should turn around any person that doesn't have proper paperwork to enter the county. At present, they just hand them a citation to appear before a immigration court at some time in the future. Guess what..... they never show up. Very few are remanded to custody and even then, most are given "political asylum" after they tell some sob story. I don't buy it, and neither should our citizens. It is about time that we tell Washington that we want our country back in the hands of our citizens.

 

[HGM]

I completely agree.... The problem I see is the confusion over how this country was founded.. Those opposed to closing the borders show uncompromised alligance to the "Statue of Liberty", Ironicly given to us by the French This statue clearly states that other countries unwanted are welcome here(these are often criminals)..

Now, I'm a decendant of immigration, as are all of us to some degree.. I dont have a problem with leagal immigration, but until we stand up and say enough is enough, that statue represents an empty growing country of days past and we're full now.. This wont stop.. I think its a good attempt to curb things but seriously doubt you'll ever see a wall or trespassers being shot.. There are too many liberal, do gooders that will welcome everyone unconditionally..Susan Serandon and Cindy Shehan will be there to protest at some point I'm sure..

BTW, Mexico is just a portion of the problem.. Dont forget Cuba and Hatti..

 

[Glenn9643]

I believe the borders should be enforced.
I don't believe President Bush intends to enforce the borders. He's had one complete term and a good part of a second to do something. No action and no mention of it until public outcry showed him a few months ago that the country is really concerned. Since then he's spoken to the problem somewhat.
If the National Guard is mobilized to assist the border patrol it'll be little more than eye-candy for the public. They'll be away from their jobs and families, most of them enduring a big cut in pay, and limited by politics from actually doing anything other than hauling water. That's my forecast of how the operation will play out anyway. I don't have much faith in the executive, much less the legislative branch up in Washington anymore. Remember, we're coming up on congressional elections soon... El Presidente Fox has nothing to worry about.

 

[XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq]

Hmm . . . just a few thoughts.

Why don't we build all the prison along the Mexican border. We only have to build walls and fences on three sides. I think a simple piece of rope along the US Mexican border with some signs politely asking the prisoners to not cross the border should suffice. We'd at the very least save 1/4 on the construction costs.

Or if we organized a huge group of rowdy drunken college kids to "storm the border" and get lots of media and publicity then we could probably get some decent coverage on how the Mexicans treat people illegally entering their country.

We need to think outside the box!

 

[beds]

I don't know about beefing border security. These are vast lands and if every inch of coastline and border is secured - and that's what you'd have to do - then all of a sudden air cargo would be the method of transport.

I would say the solution is how they are dealt with internally. How about - "Everyone going to this school needs a passport". Or, "everyone expecting welfare needs to be a citizen or formally landed immigrant at least". Neither one of these two seems that unlogical. I know we don't do that in this country, but should.

 

[Av8r3400]

Now, fine the employers heavily. Any infiltrator working in your facility will get you a $100k fine, per head, first offence. Procedes of these fines go directly to the border security needs.

Boom, done. Game over.

 

[Doc]

Now, fine the employers heavily. Any infiltrator working in your facility will get you a $100k fine, per head, first offence. Procedes of these fines go directly to the border security needs.

Boom, done. Game over.

Exactly. That would do it. Including homeowners that hire them as maids or lawnboys etc. No new laws just beef up the ones that are on the books, then start enforcing them. What a concept!!!

I read somewhere (can't find the source) that only 50 citations were given last year NATIONWIDE for employers employing illegal aliens.

 

[Dutch-NJ]

I don't know about beefing border security. These are vast lands and if every inch of coastline and border is secured - and that's what you'd have to do - then all of a sudden air cargo would be the method of transport.

I would say the solution is how they are dealt with internally. How about - "Everyone going to this school needs a passport". Or, "everyone expecting welfare needs to be a citizen or formally landed immigrant at least". Neither one of these two seems that unlogical. I know we don't do that in this country, but should.

Ask yourself, why hasn't Canada or the U.S. had this problem in the past?

I don't know how much you know about U.S. history, but we've been able to control our borders for over 200 years. We don't have to reinvent the wheel.

Read how General Pershing dealt with the Mexican incident in 1916.

When Nazis landed in Florida and Long Island during WW II, they were captured and executed.

Americans don't want our kids to have to carry passports. American adults don't want national IDs. Carrying and presnting "papers" reminds us of Nazi Germany or Communist Russia.

What America needs to do is enforce our existing laws. We don't need new laws or more bureaucracy.

Fining the shit out of employers who hire illegal workers is a good start.

 

[beds]

Read how General Pershing dealt with the Mexican incident in 1916.

When Nazis landed in Florida and Long Island during WW II, they were captured and executed.

Americans don't want our kids to have to carry passports. American adults don't want national IDs. Carrying and presnting "papers" reminds us of Nazi Germany or Communist Russia.

It's not 1916 or 1945 anymore. What are you going to do with Cubans on a raft in Florida? Send them back where they came. Fine, how do you propose to do that? Boats? on the raft they came in on so they'll come back again? Planes? What expense? Now let's say you build the wall and they come over in a cargo plane and land in the desert. What military presence are you willing to pay for? Now let's say they start coming through the porous Canadian border - That'll be an expensive wall!

My point was to make it undesirable for illegals to be among us which will have the benefit of saving our taxes on education and welfare costs.

Junior doesn't have to come to school with his papers - mommy and daddy have to present proof of citizenship when registering them. Same kind of deal you have to go through for a driver's license now. I think enrolling your child for tens of thousands of education should require the same kind of prudence as being allowed to drive.

 

[Snowcat Operations]

The president has suggested that the National Guard assist the Border Patrol in securing our border with Mexico.... read the news story here... The President of Mexico, Fox, is worried that it will become a military enforced border. To me, the President of Mexico should have his own border patrol to keep the Mexican citizens from illegally crossing over into the US. I would like to see this resolved by the US building a wall, just like that which Israel is building to secure their borders. If you read what Mexico does to citizens of other countries that illegally enter their country, you have to wonder why they think that we should tolerate there citizens that enter our country illegally. I believe that it is time to change some of the laws that we presently have and declare that any child born of illegal parents in the US is not an American citizen. Other countries don't just give citizenship because you are born there of illegal parents, why should we??? If our industries can't survive without illegal immigrants, the they should just go out of business. I know that I can't hire an illegal immigrant and pay sub standard wages in Massachussetts...... why should industry be allowed to get away with this practice in other states? If California, Texas, etc. have such a difficult problem with illegal immigrants, the time has come to crack down on those that attract them with promises of employment... Junk..

]




JUNK is absolutely right. I couldnt agree more! Lets start by building a wall.

 

[bczoom]

Just an alternative/thought.

Instead of building a wall the whole way, just expand the military proving grounds in the area.

The military has huge ranges and proving grounds in the Yuma area. Just expand them east and west.

As fighters/bombers/artillery place their munitions into the area, it wouldn't be a good idea to be there.

 

[Snowcat Operations]

Now, fine the employers heavily. Any infiltrator working in your facility will get you a $100k fine, per head, first offence. Procedes of these fines go directly to the border security needs.

Boom, done. Game over.

Thats a pretty good idea. How do these employers get away with it? Hell the last time I got a job I had to show my SS Card, Drivers Licesnse, DMV driving record and birth certificate. That was 8 years ago. I cant wait to see what the President has to say tonight! What ever it is I can tell you this. IT WONT BE ENOUGH!

 

[Snowcat Operations]

We just enrooled my daughter for Kindergarden. Now WE had to show her Birth Certificate. How about these illegal imigrants that have there children in school? Not the ones born here but in Mexico? How do they get into school?

 

[Snowcat Operations]

I also here how these teachers are so over worked. How they have to many children in each class. How many are from illegal imigrants?

 

[Dutch-NJ]

Thats a pretty good idea. How do these employers get away with it? Hell the last time I got a job I had to show my SS Card, Drivers Licesnse, DMV driving record and birth certificate. That was 8 years ago. I cant wait to see what the President has to say tonight! What ever it is I can tell you this. IT WONT BE ENOUGH!

One of the reasons you had to show a SS card and a DL because you wanted to be paid more than $5 per hour.

 

[Glink]

I think Mr Neal Boortz has some fairly good suggestions on curbing the desire of these criminals for entering and staying in our country illegally. He repeats these fairly often. For your reading pleasure and comment I have pasted them below. Seems to make decent sense to me.

1. Harsh .. to the draconian level .. penalties against any employer who knowing hires any workers who are not in this country legally.

2. Punishment - though milder - of any employers who hire illegals because they didn't conduct due diligence in the hiring process.

3. Change the law to deny citizenship to children born to a woman who is in this country illegally.

4. No children of illegals in American government schools.

5. Deny all social welfare benefits to anyone who is in this country illegally with the one exception of life-saving medical care.

6. Confiscate a substantial portion of the monies earned in this country by illegal immigrants. We confiscate drug money because it was earned illegally, so why can't we confiscate the money earned by illegals? I'm not saying take it all. Leave them enough to buy some food and get a bus ticket to Matamoras.

 

[Dutch-NJ]

I also here how these teachers are so over worked. How they have to many children in each class. How many are from illegal imigrants?

Don't ask that question............. You want to be accused of being a racist, profiling, bigot?

 

[Dutch-NJ]

Some people come up with the strangest arguments, and the most preposterous scenarios.

It's not 1916 or 1945 anymore.

No kidding........ It’s 2006. But we know what worked before.

America and Canada have been allies longer than that. Is that allegiance outdated?

Why do some people want to reinvent a wheel that already works?

What are you going to do with Cubans on a raft in Florida? Send them back where they came. Fine, how do you propose to do that? Boats? on the raft they came in on so they'll come back again? Planes? What expense?

Yes. Tow their rafts back to Cuban waters, or give them LEGAL asylum if they deserve it.

They’ll get tired of paddling a raft before we get tired of towing them back.

Americans don’t care about the cost to protect ourselves. It will cost whatever it costs.

Now let's say you build the wall and they come over in a cargo plane and land in the desert. What military presence are you willing to pay for?

That’s preposterous. Where are they going to get cargo planes?

If they did, I would hope our Air Force will shoot them out of the sky. Missiles are cheaper than planes.

My point was to make it undesirable for illegals to be among us which will have the benefit of saving our taxes on education and welfare costs.

Education and welfare costs are a completely different issue. Those costs should be reviewed as it is. All squandering should stop.

Stop illegal immigration and the associated costs will cease to exist.

Now let's say they start coming through the porous Canadian border - That'll be an expensive wall!

So what?

The Great Wall of China was built over 2,000 years ago.

If you believe America couldn’t do the same, you’re grossly under-estimating the wealth, power, and dedication of the American people.

 

[beds]

So what?

The Great Wall of China was built over 2,000 years ago.

I think you should build a big dome over the U.S.! Or an intricate web of lasers from the satellites, like Star Wars!

 

[Junkman]

The Great Wall of China was built over 2000 years ago just to protect the borders of China. The wall exists in some very remote places that it wasn't until satellite photos of China were made available that even the Chinese government even knew about these sections of the wall. Sure, walls are expensive to build, but at what cost to save our country. Those that want to come to the US should do it legally. Those that want to violate our laws and then protest when we speak of deporting them, are not the backbone of society as we know it. They are mostly the people that want the better life that the US can provide.....by availing themselves of what we commonly know as "welfare" or "social assistance"... I would like a better life also, but I don't qualify.... I am here legally.. Junk..

 

[jdwilson44]

The gutless politicians in Washington are more like ostriches than representatives of the people. Like you said, they are afraid of loosing the vote of those that are here legally that want to protect those that are here illegally. At some point in time, if the US doesn't get the illegal immigration under control, then there will be no need for a congress. The country will be taken over and run by those that are criminals. From what I have read, many members of the gangs of LA are illegal immigrants, as well as a lot of our prison population. I have always espoused that we should treat other countries the way that they treat us. If they have high tariffs on our products or restrictive laws concerning immigration, then we should do the same. This might not be a popular philosophy to take, but it has worked well for some other countries. When Japan set up high tariffs against French perfume and wines, the French retaliated by setting up only one place that was located in the center of the country where Japanese goods could be inspected by customs. That meant that the boats had to be unloaded and the goods trucked to this city for inspection. That backed up the boats waiting to be unloaded and they were stuck a few miles out at sea. The stalemate lasted about a month before the Japanese government relented and lifted the tariffs. Generally speaking, I don't like the way that the French operate, but this was one time that they had a good idea and implemented it. If we were to do the same to other countries as they do to us, we would not have these problems. Seems that President Fox wants the illegal immigration problem to continue, but he doesn't' want his citizens shot in the desert by our troops when they try to sneak over the border. I say that if the Mexican government wanted to solve the problem that they would and could do it. The Russians did it in East Germany until they tore the wall down. Now, it is time for us to build the wall. Not to keep our citizens in, but to protect our citizens from those that won't or can't enter the country legally. At all of our ports of entry, the government should turn around any person that doesn't have proper paperwork to enter the county. At present, they just hand them a citation to appear before a immigration court at some time in the future. Guess what..... they never show up. Very few are remanded to custody and even then, most are given "political asylum" after they tell some sob story. I don't buy it, and neither should our citizens. It is about time that we tell Washington that we want our country back in the hands of our citizens.

The Berlin Wall served a political purpose - it kept in the citizens of East Germany who otherwise were escaping to the West and sending back stories about how much better the West was than the socialist craphole their fellow citizens were stuck in. The lack of a fence along the US border also serves a political purpose - it allows the Mexican goverment to bleed off the pressure from it's citizens to reform by just allowing them to leave and go someplace where they can live their lives the way they want to live. If all of the immigrants who want to leave Mexico were not allowed to leave what do you think would happen? Sooner or later there would be revolution - you can only push people so far before they pop and figure out they have nothing to lose. I have read enough to come to my own conclusion that I don't personally think that the majority of the people who come here as illegal immigrants are bad people - they are doing the best they can to get out of a bad situation, but I also feel that this is not an excuse to get away with illegality in this country because in the end it will bring down the very thing they are coming here for - the chance to live a better life. I have read that something like 25% of the people in Mexico could leave the country if they could - that statistic in an of itself should be enough to show you that something is very wrong with that society.

The lack of a wall also serves a political purpose in this country - I believe mostly on the leftist side of our politics - although there may be some advantages that the right gains. Bush is friendly with Vicente Fox so I am sure there is some influence there that Fox puts to stop the border wall. The right also gains because business gets cheap labor. The left gains because these people come from a society where they have been brought in a somewhat socialist environment - therefore they are ready made converts to the leftist way of doing things. It is also another big ethnic population the Democratic party can exploit the way they have exploited African Americans - by telling them they will give them the world while they are screwing them over in the end.

I say put up the wall and let the chips fall where they may. If the minimum wage laws were made more lax I am sure there would be a lot more American citizens employed - the minimum wage laws actually keep some American citizens from working in industries where the economics of the business don't work if the minimum wage is used.

 

[jdwilson44]

Hmm . . . just a few thoughts.

Why don't we build all the prison along the Mexican border. We only have to build walls and fences on three sides. I think a simple piece of rope along the US Mexican border with some signs politely asking the prisoners to not cross the border should suffice. We'd at the very least save 1/4 on the construction costs.

Or if we organized a huge group of rowdy drunken college kids to "storm the border" and get lots of media and publicity then we could probably get some decent coverage on how the Mexicans treat people illegally entering their country.

We need to think outside the box!

You know that is an excellent idea - instead of the Minutemen who are a citizen group that monitors the border we should have a group of activist American Citizens called the Gringo Tourists who go down the the border and then just run thru the border gates in mass numbers and enter Mexican cities and towns. Instead of protesting for amnesty we could go down there and protest by the thousands in Mexican cities - flying the American flag - protesting for cheaper trinkets, better prices on Mexican vacation spots, and lower wages for Mexican migrant labor so every suburban homeowner can afford to have his own Mexican living in his tool shed to do the yardwork. It would be very interesting to see what the political fallout would be if literally thousands of Americans violated the Mexican border like that. You can bet that would create a problem that somebody would have to deal with.

You are right - the time has come to think outside the box.

 

[jdwilson44]

It's not 1916 or 1945 anymore. What are you going to do with Cubans on a raft in Florida? Send them back where they came. Fine, how do you propose to do that? Boats? on the raft they came in on so they'll come back again? Planes? What expense? Now let's say you build the wall and they come over in a cargo plane and land in the desert. What military presence are you willing to pay for? Now let's say they start coming through the porous Canadian border - That'll be an expensive wall!

My point was to make it undesirable for illegals to be among us which will have the benefit of saving our taxes on education and welfare costs.

Junior doesn't have to come to school with his papers - mommy and daddy have to present proof of citizenship when registering them. Same kind of deal you have to go through for a driver's license now. I think enrolling your child for tens of thousands of education should require the same kind of prudence as being allowed to drive.

Uh - actually we already do send Cubans back - they are only allowed to stay if they actually hit landfall in Florida. They get picked up by Coast Guard boats and they get repatriated to Cuba somehow. I believe they might go to Guantanamo and get passed back to Cuba thru the border there.

Not trying to put you down but some of your arguments are a bit off the wall - as far as I know there has been little to no illegal immigration into this country by airplane. I would hope that our airspace is defended good enough that an unidentified plane would be picked up on radar and intercepted - they surely were during the Cold War - the newspapers up here in New England would regularly show pictures of Russian Bear bombers that were intercepted off the coast by US fighters flying out of New England air bases.

How the hell are poor Mexicans going to get to Canada so they can go over the border to the US? If they made it to Canada why wouldn't they just stay there? All of the illegal Asian immigrants going into Canada do.

While it is nice to say that we could make it undesirable for an illegal to live among us how are you going to know on a daily basis? Are you going to go up to every Hispanic looking person and say hey Pedro are you a citizen? In the end it is just much more efficient for us as a society and less infringing upon our freedoms to put up a wall at the border. By our freedoms I mean us citizens who were born here or who went thru the legal immigration process and pay our taxes, don't break the law, and expect the goverment to do what it takes our taxes to do - enforce the laws. In the end what this really boils down to is discrimination - the goverment is actually discriminating against American citizens by refusing to enforce the laws of the land on people who are here on our soil but are not citizens - while they expect us citizens to obey the law. That is a recipe for anarchy in the end. If that is the kind of society you want to live in then why don't you try immigrating to Mexico and see how far you get - I think you will probably get turned back at the border.

 

[Dutch-NJ]

I think you should build a big dome over the U.S.!

I don't think a dome is needed.

At this time, I'll file that idea in the preposterous category.

But if a dome is ever needed, the U.S.A. would be the most capable nation to do it.

Or an intricate web of lasers from the satellites, like Star Wars!

America may already have that, or may be working on it.

That was President Reagan's idea that drove the old U.S.S.R. nuts.


If you don't mind, I would respectfully suggest that Canada start paying more attention to Canadian sovereignty and national defense.

 

[beds]

America may already have that, or may be working on it.

That was President Reagan's idea that drove the old U.S.S.R. nuts.


If you don't mind, I would respectfully suggest that Canada start paying more attention to Canadian sovereignty and national defense.

There actually is a star wars missile defence bogus waste of money that our Canadian government is going to subsidize along side our friendly neighbours

And you can tell Canada to pay more attention to whatever you wish! I probably know whoever you're talking about if they live in Canada.

 

[beds]

they are only allowed to stay if they actually hit landfall in Florida.

Yeah, thats what I was talking about.

Not trying to put you down but some of your arguments are a bit off the wall

You can't put me down! You can disagree with my opinion, but believe it or not, it's not wrong, it's just different!

I would hope that our airspace is defended good enough that an unidentified plane would be picked up on radar and intercepted

I don't think I said anything about an unidentified airplane, and I'm sure the DEA will be thrilled that the airspace is defended well enough to prevent anyone from flying anything illegal into your country!

 

[bczoom]

Grrrrr and a big ole WTF.

In this article several southern country leaders slam the US for our plans to build a wall.

A quote from Vicente Fox:

"Building walls, constructing barriers on the border does not offer an efficient solution in a relationship of friends, neighbors and partners," Fox said in the border city of Tijuana. "We will go on defending the rights of our countrymen without rest or respite. With passion we will demand the full respect of their human rights."​

That quote irks me so much right now, I don't even want to comment as there's not enough time to type what's on my mind.

 

[Glink]

Grrrrr and a big ole WTF.


That quote irks me so much right now, I don't even want to comment as there's not enough time to type what's on my mind.

Yea I think I heard that also on NPR, my reaction was the same.
Screw those arrogant Sons' of Bitches. It they were as concerned about their people's human rights as they portend we should be, said people would not be leaving their countries in droves. These people come into our county and siphon off of our broken and too lenient social service system, basically forcing us to subsidize the corruption in their home countries.

Build the wall, militarize the border, cut off all social services to the criminals. NOW.

And as to our fine elected representatives and their damned "comprehensive" plan. Those corrupt and pandering worthless milksops can kiss my ass.

I feel a little better now. But it wont last.