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LMC 1500 Grouser Nuts
- Thread starter sheep_mtn
- Start date
Thank you. That is definitely helpful and seems like making a custom tool is the way to go. What I am finding is that about 1/3 of my grousers/tire guides have loose bolts and thus lots of play to damage the belts - BUT the bolts & nuts are all frozen/rusted in a loose position!! I’ve tried penetrating oil to free the nuts but it does nothing. Today I used an angle grinder to take off 3 bolt heads as an experiment, but I’m finding that it does too much damage to the backer plates. I did replace those bolts with fresh ones, but that process is just not viable for the whole project. I’m in a bit of a quandary since I have loose grousers and no straightforward way to address the issue.
vintagebike
Well-known member
Warm them up a bit with a heat gun and while hot squirt with PB Blaster. Worked for me.
That’s a great idea. I tried Liquid Wrench and then heated with mapp gas torch, but that didn’t do it. I will try your method and see what happens.
GT500
New member
Haha. That's my FB post.
I just found this forum and saw this thread. Since I had recently fought with the grouser nuts I figured I'd look and see what everyone else was doing. I thought it was funny I found my own post. It has worked well for me.Thanks for sharing, always hope a good idea helps someone else out as well, no?Haha. That's my FB post.
Welcome to the forums, lots of great snowcat info around here.
Thanks guys. I've tried everything including grinding down box wrenches and sockets as thin as possible, and nothing fits in the slot. I have no idea how they got the nuts tight to begin with, unless just by the friction of the grouser itself. They are only supposed to be torqued to 15-20 ft/lbs, which maybe could be done just by friction without a tool on the nut. I've tried multiple rounds of PB Blaster/heat/impact wrench/banging, and even sweet-talking them. But they won't budge, they are frozen in time. Another idea I had is to spot weld the nuts in place, then try to unscrew the bolt, then bang the nuts free. I'm wide open to any other ideas!
Alaska Snow Cat
Member
It's a pretty common problem or condition on steel grousers, at least on the Thiokols I've owned in the past. As they get surface rust and from inactivity and then when put in use the rust wears off creating some slop and movement which creates more wear and keeps repeating. Plus the rubber belting looses some of it's squeeze and adds to the slop.
I had enough room on my 1200 and 3700 to make a custom cut off box end wrench but it was minimal clearance and I am not surprise the slightly smaller 1500 is a bigger problem. Sometimes the nut or bolt was so rusted or worn that I resorted to the cutting torch but the rubber belting always suffered a little. Grinding maybe the best solution? I don't know. I always used new bolts and nuts when ever I messed with the old ones but it only took a few years before those were also rusted and loose.
Pisten Bully, and maybe others, have a bushing that is fitted into the belting that allows a torque to be put on the bolt without pinching the rubber which would be a great modification if you were to ever rebuild your tracks.
I think you are going to end up having to shear/cut/chisel or grind the heads of the bolts. Possibly get a sawzall between the grouser and belting.
I had enough room on my 1200 and 3700 to make a custom cut off box end wrench but it was minimal clearance and I am not surprise the slightly smaller 1500 is a bigger problem. Sometimes the nut or bolt was so rusted or worn that I resorted to the cutting torch but the rubber belting always suffered a little. Grinding maybe the best solution? I don't know. I always used new bolts and nuts when ever I messed with the old ones but it only took a few years before those were also rusted and loose.
Pisten Bully, and maybe others, have a bushing that is fitted into the belting that allows a torque to be put on the bolt without pinching the rubber which would be a great modification if you were to ever rebuild your tracks.
I think you are going to end up having to shear/cut/chisel or grind the heads of the bolts. Possibly get a sawzall between the grouser and belting.
Thanks ASC, I appreciate that input very much. I think you are right that the only real option might be grinding or cutting the bolt heads off and replacing with fresh hardware. Maybe I could try a nut buster too. I tried grinding 3 bolt heads just to test the procedure, and it is time consuming but might be one of the only ways. I like the idea of a bushing in the belt - I might just have to try that when I rebuild the tracks at some point.
Tried that too!
Ok, against my better judgement I'm going to toss in. Irwin used to make a 12" "vice grip". Not talking about knockoffs, a true blue vice grip. It would take the force to loosen, or shear track bolts on the case track hoe I maintained.
failing that, what does the cross section of the channel and bolt measure? I have another idea gelling.
failing that, what does the cross section of the channel and bolt measure? I have another idea gelling.
While against your better judgement, I certainly do appreciate. I have tried 10” vise grips, and while the grips are sufficiently tight and braced, the nut skips in the jaws. But I have not tried the true blue Irwin grips.
The cross section is tricky, as there are the radius’ from the base of the grouser to the two vertical blades, which of course is where the 9/16 nut sits. But I will get those measurements. Thank you!
The cross section is tricky, as there are the radius’ from the base of the grouser to the two vertical blades, which of course is where the 9/16 nut sits. But I will get those measurements. Thank you!
I would grind off two sides of the socket enough to clear the grouser and get it over the nut. Then weld a handle to the top or side of the socket and turn it from the bolt side. I always keep a box of old wrenches and sockets that I get at goodwill or garage sales to make "special" tools. I have a whole drawer of "pretzel wrenches" and U shaped sockets for some of the impossible to reach fasteners in airplanes. Some of them only get used once.
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Agreed, it will need a custom tool. It's a tight little bugger! What is odd is the nuts don't even sit flush due to the radius' of the grouser bends.
vintagebike
Well-known member
Interesting rusted nut process, mostly the quick water cool, plus a Tucker looking tug in the background. The prevailing torque nuts used on the grousers were probably never intended to be removed 30-40 years later.
vintagebike
Well-known member
Cidertom…LMC1500 owner’s club group buy? So as you clamp the two sides together the nut will rotate to fit the tool or you turn the bolt from the bottom to align?
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Turn the bolt head to align the nut to the socket. It’s a good design.
prototype stage only. Will need to make a production one with hardenable steel. I came up with design when working on a large satellite transmitter dish with same problem of rusted nuts in a channel that resisted the usual wrenches. I need to get a chunk of grouser to test against. I made a lookalike from aluminum and Jon's drawing, but a real one would be better.
cascade curmudgeon
New member
If you are going to make these to sell, we (me and our sewer district) will each want one, plus probably also a neighbor that has a 1500.
cascade curmudgeon
New member
If you just got your 1500, you will find out there is even more track fun in store after you get all the bolts tightened. The long OEM grousers have a tendency to break at the wheel-guide bolt holes. In the 12 years I have had mine I have broken at least one a year, sometimes a couple. This is running only on snow, no dirt or pavement. The aftermarket ones that Peterson Equipment had had made, and now Snowcat Services (who bought out Peterson's stock of Thiokol/DMC/LMC parts) have don't break, they are heavier and are a one-piece grouser/wheel guide. They are pricey though, but then what ain't when it comes to snowcats.
I’m planning to build new tracks next summer, and will definitely be looking at alternatives to the factory grousers. I think to buy a full set from Snowcat Services is like $15K, so that’s not really a viable option for me. $135 each.