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IMPORTANT NOTICE ON THE CALIFORNIA SHOOTOUT

Jen's Jeep said:
Are Sno cat's street legal:smileywac ???
Click to expand...
That seems to depend on the type of snowcat and the state you live in. For example, the Snow Tracs came from the factory with turn signals, a horn, running lights, headlamps and a license plate light. I drive mine on the street frequently and treat it as a farm tractor with a SMV sign on the rear, never had any problems or gotten any grief, but I do get funny looks :StickOutT

Some states specifically forbid the use of steel tracked vehicls on their roadways.
 
Jen,

No, they are not street legal here in CA. But if all the roads are covered in snow then I doubt that LE would give you any grief. If it's that bad then they won't be out looking for infractions...

BTW, Here in Auburn, CA I couldn't even Green Sticker (OHV) my snocat. I TRIED to pay fees at DMV and they fought me and told me this was not a snowmobile or ATV or auto and I would probably get a citation for having a green sticker on there. I'm not sure if they were right or not but I gave up, got a refund for my fees and left.

I still need to contact the Forest Service to get their intrepretation. My only concern is on shared use trails in snowmobile areas.

Vance
 
Odd.. mine has a green sticker... ya just gotta find the right person, or at least not the wrong one.

Eric
 
Vance said:
told me this was not a snowmobile or ATV or auto and I would probably get a citation for having a green sticker on there.
Click to expand...
Looks just like a four-track snowmobile to me. You might try that.

If you haven't encountered her before - the head DMV office (now at Outer Broadway, Sacramento) always has a little old lady back behind the clerks who has authority to do magic *if* you approach her correctly. Maybe take her a photo on your first visit. She's heard it all - you just need to describe your rig as the same as another green-tag Tucker and she'll probably remember she approved that one 20 years ago when she sat in the same seat as today. There's always a way if you can find a precedent.

Another approach I haven't tried is to enlist the help of your state Senator or Assemblyman, if you have facts to support your case.
 
All my snow cats have had green stickers, I would start over at another dmv or at least a different person at that office. I have been checked many times while operating in the park and forrest service lands. call it an off highway vehicle, or snowmobile dont mention snowcat as that may prompt questions. I have found out at the CA DMV the less info you volenteer the easier it is stick with stuff they know. my thiokol reg says MAKE:thiok BODY TYPE: sm TYPE VEHICLE USE :off highway good luck
 
Thanks for the suggestions, all. It really is odd that I'm wanting to pay DMV fees.. (the sales tax is what gets me). I feel that the green sticker IS appropriate for these vehicles and would think USFS would go that way, too. I'm going to get a ruling from USFS and DMV told me they were EXEMPT (I don't necessarily believe them). I just want to find the clause so I can defend myself against the FS who is likely the only person who would confront me here in CA. I'm willing to pay the 125 bucks or so and 20-30 every other year to keep on the up and up. We want to keep a good image for our "sport".

I'll update as I get more info.

Vance
 
Check out the prior thread on license requirements:
http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=6320&highlight=snow+forest+service+rules

Info that I found researching the Federal Register:

Additonal info for the legal use of over the snow vehicles from the federal register of November 9th 2005.

Copied from the federal register for National Forest Service rules: http://www.fs.fed.us/recreation/programs/ohv/final.pdf

Definition for ‘‘snowmobile.’’
Comment.
Some respondents suggested that the definition for snowmobile in the proposed rule be broadened to include other over-snow vehicles, such as tracked ATVs and grooming machines.

Response.
The proposed rule defined snowmobile as ‘‘A motor vehicle that is designed exclusively for use over snow and that runs on a track or track and/or a ski or skis. ’’ This definition encompassed large vehicles, such as snow cats, not commonly referred to as snowmobiles. However, the proposed definition excluded vehicles capable of conversion to over-snow use, such as ATVs with tracks. Since the proposed definition refers only to the vehicle itself, and not to its use, the proposed rule could be read to allow use of snowmobiles in the absence of snow off routes and outside areas designated for motor vehicle use. The Department believes that over-snow use by tracked vehicles has similar environmental effects, regardless of whether the vehicle is designed exclusively for use over snow.
Consequently, the final rule replaces the exemption and definition for
snowmobiles with an exemption and definition for over-snow vehicles
(which would include snowmobiles).

The final rule also removes the word ‘‘exclusively’’ from the definition, while adding ‘‘while in use over snow,’’ so that the final definition for over-snow vehicle includes motor vehicles that are designed for use over snow and that run on a track or track and/or a ski or skis, while in use over snow. Use by oversnow vehicles may be allowed, restricted, or prohibited under part 212, subpart C.
 
Back on topic...

we've gotten a good amount of snow now and more falling as I write this...

How about meeting up somewhere for coffee and food? I'm not terribly familiar with the area, but I do know one little restaurant in Auburn.. Edelwiess.. its downtown, good breakfast. Parking may be a bitch tho with trailers...I think we are not bringing our personal cats, right?

any other suggestions? or ideas?

Eric
 
Keep me informed..... Could I catch a ride???? My rental contract says NO CHAINS where is the fun in that????
 
I checked on Eidelweis and they don't open 'til 7am - Darn. If we are going to be up to Yuba Gap by 830 then we need to leave around 7am from Auburn as there will likely be chain controls to get through.

I'm not much of a big breakfast person but if you want sit down then Bakers Square at Foresthill exit opens at 6am. There is also Flour Garden Bakery for simpler fare (bagels, pastry, maybe quiche?) that opens early and is easy to get to off Elm. I'd vote for Flour garden but I'm open.

Mike, I can give you a ride. Can we meet at the restaurant? I'll PM you my number and you can call me.

BTW, I was up at Yuba Gap and Emmigrant Gap yesterday for a Bday party/sledding/bbq with freinds. There is LOTS of snow up there. Snowmobiles were getting stuck, trucks stuck. I took a little snowshoe jaunt and sunk everywhere up to my knees and some places to my waist!!

I tried to check out the snowflower area and campground road again but this A** that worked for snowflower decided he would close down the entire offramp at Yuba Gap. Long and unpleasant story but I won't get into that. End of the story is I didn't get any pictures (or arrested).

Vance
 
Here's a link to current weather at Blue Canyon and the forecast for I-80 at Yuba Gap: NWS 30 miles east of Grass Valley

Link to Caltrans road/chain conditions: CT District 3 WinterOps. (go down to Check Current Road Conditions, enter 'I80'.)
They indicate a webcam at Kingvale, if you can see a .asx file - I'm trying to figure that one out.
At noon Monday its R2. 4x4 w real snow tires, not M&S, - or else chains.[SIZE=-1]


[/SIZE]
There's a slight chance I might show up to watch the festivities, if it eases up enough to get my little Subaru in there. Given this forecast, it looks more likely that the offramp will remain closed![SIZE=-1]
[/SIZE]
 
California said:
They indicate a webcam at Kingvale, if you can see a .asx file - I'm trying to figure that one out.
At noon Monday its R2. 4x4 w real snow tires, not M&S, - or else chains.[SIZE=-1]
Click to expand...

FYI, If you have 4x4 with M+S you are okay under R2. To Caltrans the M+S is a snow tire.

The Kingvale camera is fickle. I think it gets overloaded and sometime wont play. Just keep trying.

You can also get a still of Kingvale (and video)here:
http://www.magnifeye.com/
NOTE: not working at this moment...

Lots of cameras here:
http://www.sierravisionsstock.com/cams.html

I do expect chain controls - maybe even very low. Controls were at Gold Run yesterday.

Vance
 
Vance said:
FYI, If you have 4x4 with M+S you are okay under R2. To Caltrans the M+S is a snow tire.
Click to expand...
Sometimes.

I've been forced to go back and chain up when I had near-new M&S on a Wagoneer, and then another time with an old flat-side Trooper. The second time, the guy in the yellow raincoat said 'I don't care what you read somewhere - if I can't get a knuckle down between the cleats then you aren't going through.' Maybe they should call that a Hard R-2. I chained up.

He was probably right. We had to dodge a couple of spinouts parked backward in the fast lane, and there were skiers' rigs stuffed in the bushes all the way down the hill.


Here's CT's formal standard. Apparently the on-site guy can interpret it any way he wants.
​
  • R-1:
  • Chains or snow tread tires required. Snow tires must have a tread depth of 6/32" with a "M & S" imprint on the tire's sidewall.
  • R-2:
  • Chains required on all vehicles except four-wheel drives or all-wheel drives with snow tread tires on all four wheels.
  • R-3:
  • Chains required - ALL VEHICLES- no exceptions
 
Vance,
Thanks for the web cams! I can see you guys are getting hammered pretty damn good! Now we only need to puts BigAls KT7 in front of one of those web cams so eveyone on forumsforums can see the maiden voyage! Pretty cool idea.
 
Yep, California is getting pounded with snow now. Here is a report from Kingvale - just up the road:

20" since last night. Tried to ride to the top of the ridge this morning. SUPER DEEP. got stuck a couple times and came home. Insane 8' drifts swallow you Whole.

Sierra Snow machine is on and not stopping
storm total 56", week 84"
DSK​

Here is a pic from some guys at Cisco Grove (same area). I haven't made it up to get stuck (I mean ride) as I've been working on my cat and working...

Vance
 

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That is some beautiful DEEP SNOW! Well BigAl wanted to test his KT7. BUT with a .40 PSI it will do pretty damn good. OK who has a camera to video tape BigAls Big Adventure?
 
Eric L said:
Back on topic...

we've gotten a good amount of snow now and more falling as I write this...

How about meeting up somewhere for coffee and food? I'm not terribly familiar with the area, but I do know one little restaurant in Auburn.. Edelwiess.. its downtown, good breakfast. Parking may be a bitch tho with trailers...I think we are not bringing our personal cats, right?

any other suggestions? or ideas?

Eric
Click to expand...

Isn't this amazing ! Last week we were running around trying to find another location to hold this . Now we may be lucky if we can even get there . One thing for sure , The snow should be incredible and DEEP!!!

I'm up for having Breakfast in Auburn . Then we can caravan up to Yuba Gap from there . I also think we should forget the idea of trailering up the snow cats . I will need snow chains for the trailer ,if I pull Yetti up and I have not even tested her yet .

The one thing that may keep me from going is my favorite Uncle is in Critical Care and not expected to make it .They are taking him off life support tomorrow . We are now on watch 24/7 at the hospital .If someone wants to take my wife's and my reservation ,thats ok .I should know more by this time tomorrow .

What time do you think we should meet for Breskfast ???

PS : As of right now Caltans is holding all traffic at Stateline and at Alta on Interstate 80 . Yuba Gap is between these two points .
 
The TV said the I-80 is closed at applegate now Avalanches and 40-50in of snow?????? I bet you guys will pay me to come to Cal more often......
 
Big Al I know that Kristi will float that may be the only way we can get to the shootout!!!!!
 
Aw c'mon guys... I have faith in the Caltrans crew. I-80 is closed right now due to whiteout conditions. Low snow tonight below 2000 ft means my kids will likely have a snow day and I80 will have intermittent closures through the am.

The forecast looks good for us for Wed. Only light snow and clearing conditions. Don't worry but expect chain control to get to Yuba Gap. Just my opinion...

I'll make the suggestion that we meet at Flour Garden Bakery at 6:30 and depart by 7:00. It's basically a coffee/bagel place as I figure we'll have snacks again with Safety One. I'll assume that everyone is gassed up and ready to go at that time. If you have FRS radios or CB, bring them. I'll have both.

Flour Garden Bakery is just south of I-80 at Elm Ave exit. It is in the Albertsons/Longs/Starbucks/Gottchalks parking lot. For Al - it is between 49 and 80 on Elm - can't miss it.

I'll try to get there earlier than 630 but that is not likely as I have to get kids off to school.

Does this work for everyone?

This is going to be a great event. With all the deep powder - we just have to worry that the vendors were able to get the cats to the site. My buddy/neighbor that operates a groomer at Boreal probably won't make it because we have soooooo much snow they will cancel his 'vacation'. I was looking forward to his input.

:letitsnow:

Vance
 
Crap! All that snow and me with no damn running snowcat! What a beautiful storm. Its just dumping gobs amount of powder. I hope All goes well for you Allen. You guys have fun and stay kinda warm up there.
 
I'm seriously beginning to wonder about road conditions tomorrow AM. weather man says its gonna stay ugly :snow2_smi:
 
Eric L said:
I'm seriously beginning to wonder about road conditions tomorrow AM. weather man says its gonna stay ugly :snow2_smi:
Click to expand...
Well, I guess you will Have to drive the snowcat??? Can I catch a ride in the cat ??????:wave:
 
Seriously, Caltrans has a habit of closing roads if it looks just a little sketchy. I'm wondering if Safety One has the equip on site yet. if not, they may have trouble too.
 
Hmm, you're right. It's showing ugly again - Wooo Hooo time for an adventure...

My Mom said it was snowing in Grass Valley at 2400ft.

Here is the latest warning:
A
WINTER STORM WARNING REMAINS IN EFFECT UNTIL 1 PM PST WEDNESDAY.

ADDITIONAL SNOWFALL ACCUMULATIONS OF 6 TO 10 INCHES ARE POSSIBLE TODAY ABOVE 4000 FEET...WITH 2 TO 6 INCHES POSSIBLE ABOVE 2000 FEET. IN THE HIGHER ELEVATIONS...SNOWFALL ACCUMULATIONS WILL RANGE BETWEEN 10 TO 18 INCHES.

PERIODS OF SNOW WILL CONTINUE TO FALL DURING THE NEXT 24 TO 30 HOURS ACROSS NORTHERN CALIFORNIA...WITH SIGNIFICANT SNOWFALL TOTALS POSSIBLE ABOVE 1500 FEET. AT THIS TIME...ANOTHER 24 TO 30 INCHES OF SNOW WILL BE POSSIBLE OVER THE HIGHER ELEVATIONS BY WEDNESDAY AFTERNOON...WITH NEARLY A FOOT OF SNOW POSSIBLE BELOW 4000 FEET
ADDITIONALLY...STRONG WINDS WILL CONTINUE TO BE POSSIBLE...WITH LOCAL GUSTS UP TO 45 MPH. WHITE CONDITIONS MAY BE POSSIBLE AT TIMES...ESPECIALLY OVER THE HIGH MOUNTAIN PASSES OF THE NORTHERN SIERRA NEVADA.

A WINTER STORM WARNING MEANS SIGNIFICANT AMOUNTS OF SNOW... SLEET... AND ICE ARE EXPECTED OR WILL OCCUR. STRONG WINDS ARE ALSO POSSIBLE. THIS WILL MAKE TRAVEL VERY HAZARDOUS OR IMPOSSIBLE.
.​

A few mins ago it was sunny and dry roads at Kingvale. now its snowing again. Hopefully the equipment made it there today.

Should be fun,

Vance
 
Ok!!! This is getting serious . I tried calling Safety One to find out if the shootout is still a go . No Answer !!! I left a message and asked for a call back .
I guess at this point we just listen the the road reports in the morning . If 80 is closed I think it will be a bust for going anywhere. Yuba Gap is at 5000 feet . Grass Valley is at 2200 feet . I am at 2000 feet and it is snowing to beat the band here . They are expecting as much as a foot here at my place . This will shut down I-80 for sure . Snow level is suppose to drop to 1000 feet tonight .
Thoughts or comments ???:snow2_smi: :snow2_smi:
 
mbsieg said:
Lets have the shootout at your place Big Al!!!!!
Click to expand...

Not enough snow yet ! It is just now starting to stick !!! 10 miles up the road they have 3 feet !!

Mike ,I bet you the "back way" we came back from Vances is completely covered now . They are a little higher in elevation "
 
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