My dad is looking at buying (most likely) a local imp here in Utah. Peterson equipment has a few and there is one local we are looking at. Since we are fairly new to snowcats (have a fair amount of farm and heavy equipment experience though) I was curious if anyone has any advice for first time buyers. I have read quite a few of these posts and have found them to be very informative. Any info would be appreciated.
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Howdy Folks, I'm buying an Imp!
- Thread starter Rampage
- Start date
In addititon to mechanical condition, you might also want to consider your intended use. In my case, I came across a muskeg (I guess intended more for mud and heavy industrial use) which as a newbie looked good to me. I later learned a smaller, faster snowcat would better fit my needs. From reading posts in this forum, for example, the width of the tracks is pretty important if you intend to play in deep powdery snow.
Snowbird brings up some great points about the intended use issues. Wide tracks are typically there to give you more floatation in deeper/fluffier powder, narrow tracks work great on heavier wetter snow and also aid a bit in manuverability. Consider your transport vehicle and tailer too. Wide track snowcats typically require a bed over the wheels of the trailer, narrow cats can often fit on a standard car carrier. The Imp is a lightweight unit, if you tow it it will not require a heavy duty truck or trailer, but some models will. Many snowcats are heavier than you'd expect and require 10,000# trailers and tow vehicles to match. As for the Imp, we have several members here who have them, I'm sure they can help you with any specific questions you have.
Thanks for the quick replys. We are considering an Imp due to its small size, ease of transport, and still being a sturdy capable machine. We will be mostly using it for cabin property and for fun. Also, here in Utah it seems that they are fairly common and easier to get serviced and some parts suppliers are local. I had just read some of the posts about the rear end and was wondering what to look for when we drive them. Petersons Equipment in Logan Utah (we are going there tomorrow 12/8/08) has some and they say they have inspected the oc4's in them. Price seems to be around 10-12K for machines in the 500 hour range local and at Petersons. I'm also looking for service manuals, spec sheets etc that can be used for servicing which I think we can mostly do ourselves, but I'm wondering about how you can tell if the rear end or transmission(s) are going. By the way if I find anything else at Peterson tomorrow, i'll post the info. Thanks for the assistance, this is an awesome site and very helpful. Ive really learned alot from just reading the other posts and topics.
Bobcat
Je Suis Charlie Hebdo
The OC-4s should do fine in an Imp, and if Petersons said they inspected them, then they're probably in good shape. If you're getting a 2-seater with just a bed on the back, you may regret that by the end of the season.
1404 Imp manuals scans...
http://www.goldcordmine.com/manuals/Thiokol 1404/
1404 Imp manuals scans...
http://www.goldcordmine.com/manuals/Thiokol 1404/
mtntopper
Back On Track
Peterson Equipment is a very reputable and honest dealer. I have never heard anything bad said about them. When I have needed parts they have went the extra mile to find, source and supply the items needed. The parts prices do reflect the high level of service, having on hand and knowing the source for many of the critical and hard to get parts. But, when you need parts in a critical way, they can get it to you in a timely manner.
I agree. Peterson tractor been extremely good to deal with I would believe what they say
They maybe a little high in price but you pay for what you get The will have done a lot of work on your cat an will give you a list if you want it Also I believe they will give you service manual if you buy from them (they did me)
Hope you like your cat You'll wonder why you did'nt get one sooner
They maybe a little high in price but you pay for what you get The will have done a lot of work on your cat an will give you a list if you want it Also I believe they will give you service manual if you buy from them (they did me)
Hope you like your cat You'll wonder why you did'nt get one sooner
I am excited to get a snow cat, and I don't really know why. When i was a kid I had the Matchbox Snow trac and have always had an interest in them. I was also able to go to a snow cat demonstration day in Heber Utah and drive some of the newer bigger cats with Snow transport specialists. My Dad has finally decided he wants to get one for his cabin, and I have been reading and researching them again for the last couple of weeks. I guess I get the bug when the winter gets here! We were going to go to Montana a couple of years ago to look at the Kristi that I saw on another post, I am glad someone is doing something with it. It looks great. So as i look at these posts and gain more experience we are leaning toward the Imp with a cab on the back. Local parts, easy transport and a wealth of knowledge available.
Snowcat Operations
Active member
#1 Grousers. At $50 to $100 plus each X 140 or more it can add up fast.
#2 Belting. Belting can run from $1,500 up to $5,000 or more depending on type of machine.
#3 Drive train. Rear diffs are expensive to repair or replace. The Imp has a OC4. The OC4 is fine as long as it has not been abused. Repairs can run up to 5K and replacment in the 7K range and up.
#4 The Imp has a hard to find parts for engine. I like the newer Super Imp and 1202s ect. These have the much more common Ford 200, 250 and 300 inline 6s. You can go to any automotive store and find parts. Just6 something to keep in mind.
#5 The Imps are good in Powder. The Super Imp with Wide tracks are good in powder. The Thiokol 1200s are good in powder.
Reliability must be 100% If your stranded 50 miles from the nearest road and you have a break donw. It could cost you your life.
#2 Belting. Belting can run from $1,500 up to $5,000 or more depending on type of machine.
#3 Drive train. Rear diffs are expensive to repair or replace. The Imp has a OC4. The OC4 is fine as long as it has not been abused. Repairs can run up to 5K and replacment in the 7K range and up.
#4 The Imp has a hard to find parts for engine. I like the newer Super Imp and 1202s ect. These have the much more common Ford 200, 250 and 300 inline 6s. You can go to any automotive store and find parts. Just6 something to keep in mind.
#5 The Imps are good in Powder. The Super Imp with Wide tracks are good in powder. The Thiokol 1200s are good in powder.
Reliability must be 100% If your stranded 50 miles from the nearest road and you have a break donw. It could cost you your life.
Thanks for the info. We went and looked at some Imps today, and we are thinking we have found one we like. I would probably be interested in a SuperImp, but I am not so sure its in our price range and haven't seen or driven one of those. I was looking very close at the belting, grousers, wheels and running gear in general thanks to the advice I read here and other posts. I will have to take Petersons word on the diff. Anyway thanks for the advice, I cant wait to hit the snow!
Snowcat Operations
Active member
I can deliver for cosst of fuel both ways..........
Also look close at the frame in the areas that support the transaxle. The welds tend to come apart in that area from flexing and light weight engineering. Another weak point is the wheel axles welds where they tie into the frame. Ive had to completely rebuild those areas on my 1404 Imp much stronger than the factory job. And I agree with all the other comments.
fogtender
Now a Published Author
After my axle had broken, it was re-welded with a new tube, but after I bought it, I drove a heavy wall pipe down inside the new one and the front one too, then cut it flush, drilled holes on both sides and put a bolt though it to help it stay. Didn't weld the ends because I wanted it to flex a small amount and figure if I welded it, the weld would crack after a bit, where the bolt allows some flex.
Inside the tunnel, there was damage that the previous owner didn't repair when they replaced the axle and I had to go in and redo that, but here is a before photo of what to look for...
Don't know if it worked, but haven't had any axle problems. Did install new springs and they are a bit stiffer than the factory ones were, still have to turn the top one over to soften the ride some.
Attachments
Thanks for the info. I have learned more about Imps, Super Imps and Sprytes in the last few days than I thought I ever would. Looked at a Spryte today but it needed way too much work. I think a Super Imp would be the best for us but we will be saving more money to get to that. The one Imp we were leaning toward is still available and I did check the under carriage which thankfully is in pretty goodshape. Would you suggest reinforcing it as soon as we get it? Or should we just keep an eye on it? Thanks again.
fogtender
Now a Published Author
Installing the pipe like I showed above, isn't' that big of a deal and may save you a long walk someday.... Cheap insurance.
Just make sure the pipe is about a foot longer than the axle, because you will be beating it in with a sledge and it will look a bit mushroomed when you are done....
Hey guys thought I would follow up and let you all know that my dad did end up buying an Imp at Petersons equipment in Logan Utah. We looked at a couple of local and not so local cats and decided on the one in Logan.They are going through it and due to this being the busy time of year, it most likely wont be ready for a couple of months. That last part is driving me crazy cause winter has officially arrived here in Utah! Thanks to all those who offered advice. I recently heard a local fellow who may be selling what sounds like a Kristi (he said wood on the tracks, VW motor). So we might be getting one of those for me if the price is right!
fogtender
Now a Published Author
Boy, if that doesn't sound like someone sucking up to the "Krusty Kristi" crowd....
Sad part is it will work pretty well.....
But Congrats on the Imp buy, that will make a pretty good tow truck for pulling the Kristi home after a few minutes run time in the field.....
Thought I would follow up with my previous post. I did go and look at a Kristi here in Utah. Its what I think is a KT3 and is in pretty rough shape but appears to be complete (although I couldnt see the front sprockets and the tracks were off). Belting wasn't bad but the wood on the tracks looks pretty weathered. The owner is my dads friend and it is not for sale at this time. I didn't have my camera so sorry no pics. The most interesting part was the trailer, it seemed to be custom made for that cat, but looked like a commercially built one. I guess it could have been home made but it would have been the best home built one I have seen. I am not so familiar with the Kristi's. Did they have their own custom trailers? If I hear this fellow changes his mind about selling it I will post it and pictures. I am sure it would be good for parts at the least.
SEE, See, I told you sucking up the to the Krusty Kristy Crowd would work, you got him baited now you can double the price on that pile of twisted cheep Krusty parts and make a profit.....
fogtender
Now a Published Author
Don't you have some ice fog to tend?
Shuuuush... I'm working on a commission angle here....
Thanks Fogtender I am beginning to see how this works! In my previous post I said the Kristi looked pretty rough. What I meant to say is rough like a diamond, a beautiful diamond glistening in the sun. Did I mention it was originally owned and bought new by Elvis Presley for when it snows in Memphis (it snows there right?) and it was in the James Bond movie "Diamonds are forever" (more of the diamond theme). Anyway Im not sure if you are interested in a cat of this type, but let let me know (money talks) if you are. (Just kidding of course!)
fogtender
Now a Published Author
Ah, Grasshopper, you are learning fast.
Yeah, and Elvis makes the value increase because of the value of him knowing all about the Kristi's ablities to....um, er, uh... look good when parked.
Bobcat
Je Suis Charlie Hebdo
Rep points cometh...
Snowcat Operations
Active member
I have an original #01 kristi tow behind sled trailer. I thought it was a home made job but found a little data plate on her. It was part of a deal when I bought a KT3 on Ebay. (proof you shouldnt drink and Ebay at the same time)!
Snowcat Operations
Active member
And yes Bobcat already put dibbs on it.