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How to slow down a road/trail slip?

Doc

Doc

Bottoms Up
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US Navy Veteran
Vietnam Veteran
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My main road / trail leading to the river was out all last year. Last fall I had a bulldozer in and he fixed it up nice. It has already started slipping again. Same place as last time. It is barely wide enough for my RTV to get by without driving on the slipped area. I have plans to pull a few trailer loads of treated wood to the river to build a bunch of new docs and am concerned about the slip getting worse and causing an accident. This road is cut into the side of a hill.

I'm thinking of driving some 4x4's into the ground on the outside edge of the slip, but looking for other ways I might slow it down. I know you can't stop mother nature but I hope to slow it down enough to keep the road passable for a few years. It lasted 14years until the slip last year.

Currently the outside edge has dropped 6 inches and is about 12 inches wide. I would put the 4x4's outside of the 12 inches and fill in the six inches with some rock. Any other ideas?
 
Doc have you ever thought about getting some sheet piling driven into the bank to stabilize it also digging a ditch and stacking in some rock baskets may also stabilize it for you we used to do that in Iraq.
 
I was thinking of Gabion baskets as well but if it's a long distance or too narrow it could be cost prohibitive or width restrictive.
 
dds said:
Doc have you ever thought about getting some sheet piling driven into the bank to stabilize it also digging a ditch and stacking in some rock baskets may also stabilize it for you we used to do that in Iraq.
Click to expand...
I think a little more info is needed, and pictures. This is at the far back end of my 50 acres and leads down to the Ohio River. It is a fairly steep drop off to the river (about 60ft) and a big old hill above the road too. The trail was cut into the property before we bought it 15 years ago, except for the part that is slipping. We added that 14 years ago. We extended the trail to make a river lot and dock area. This is really in the sticks. I do good to get an RTV there or my Kubota Tractor down there. With the slip I won't take the tractor down there now, until I have it fixed or patched somehow. So I don't think I could get the equipment down there to drive sheet piling into the bank. But I have to admit I do not know what sheet piling is, nor the buckets that you and BC mentioned.

As a member of the tractor forum posted, drainage is going to be key to any fix lasting. It will be tough but I'll try to get some pics that give a good representation of the area in question.
 
These are Gabion baskets.

gabionbasket.jpg


stfs15fig5.gif
 
Wow. Those look awesome and would sure do the trick. No way to get them there though. I would only need 4 of the baskets (wide) ....and lots more to build it down to the river. It would cost much more than it's worth to me at the moment. I should have said Cheap solutions (if there is such a thing). :yum:
 
They can get pricy if you have a lot to do.

They make all kinds of different sizes including small ones. You can take them to the site empty then using either the RTV or tractor, fill them with rocks once you have them in position.
 
Interesting for sure. I would have to have equipment that could work the bank below the road to prep the area for the baskets. Just the reason I need for renting a medium size back hoe. In the end I might very well end up doing something like this. Dang you got me thinking BC; scary as that sounds. Thanks. :tiphat:
 
Doc, Here is my cheap farmer solution. Go buy some 3/4 or 1" rebar. It usually comes in 10 ft. lengths. Use a cutoff blade to cut these in half. Starting about 15 feet below your road drive a row of the bars spaced mo more than 1 ft. apart across the length of the area that has slid. Behind this place some rough sawn locust boards at least 3/4 inch thick. You may need to drill a few holes on each side of a few stakes to hold them or stack some rocks against them. Move up the hill 5 ft. and do another wall across. I would at least partially fill in behind them as I move up hill. Do a final one almost at the road height and fill it almost level with the road. Let me offer one word of advice. If you do not run equipment regularly and have total familiarity with it DON"T attempt to work a washout on a hill. Hire it out to be done. Renting a small dozer would be much safer for the application if you insist of doing it your self.:flowers:
 
I called them rock baskets but gabion baskets is the right name. we use the snot out of them here they are light to fly or haul in and there is no shortage of rocks around here to fill them with .as a redneck solution maybe excavate like the gabion baskets cut the tops off 55 gallon drums and fill them and stack the same way you do gabion baskets. another cheep solution may be to get some 250 gallon totes cut out the tops and stack like baskets. the totes I here can be had cheap at auctions down there I here ,and usually most had some kind of non hazardous materials in them.
 
Thanks Muley. Sounds interesting. I have plenty of locust trees available for this project.
Good point on the equipment.
 
dds said:
I called them rock baskets but gabion baskets is the right name. we use the snot out of them here they are light to fly or haul in and there is no shortage of rocks around here to fill them with .as a redneck solution maybe excavate like the gabion baskets cut the tops off 55 gallon drums and fill them and stack the same way you do gabion baskets. another cheep solution may be to get some 250 gallon totes cut out the tops and stack like baskets. the totes I here can be had cheap at auctions down there I here ,and usually most had some kind of non hazardous materials in them.
Click to expand...
Good info Don. Thanks!!!!
I'll try to have pics of the area in the next few days. Then I'd like to hear what you all think would work best.
 
Doc, I have used a post driver that fits over steel T posts to drive the rebar. If you find you can drive 5 ft. pieces cut some longer and mix them in as the deeper you can get them the better it will hold. If it is real rocky you will have a workout.
 
We are thinking the same Muley. If I go that route I would use a fence post driver. I have a big 75 pounder we call Big Bertha that we use to drive 4x4s in the water for our docks. I was planning to use Bertha if I drove 4x4's in the slip area.
 
Doc,

It is not a cheap solution but dds was on it with sheet piling. If it were say a grade that were along a public highway this is what would DOT used. Sheet pilings are large sheets of heavy gauge steel driven vertically into the ground. In your case, at intervals down the slope. After they are placed a think layer of course road rock over the top so you can drive over them. With time you would have to pull the rock uphill while grading, as it will try to go down with gravity... It is usually set with an excavtor with a hydrolic clamp/hammer mechanism on the end of the stick. My bet is that it the way to do it if money were not a big consideratiion...

If all else fails, maybe consider it..

Regards, Kirk
 
I can only imagine the cost of sheet piling, but I seriously doubt I would ever be able to afford that kind of solution.
Raining here today but I was able to go down to the area and get some pics. I walked it and viewing it slowly from all angles it does not seem as bad as when trying to drive past it.

Here are some pics to give you all an idea what I am talking about.

First some pics on my way to the slip. Pic two is not the slip, it is the creek, solid rock where I cross there.
 

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Some more. The thing that looks a little like a golf green at the end of the road is the river lot (last pic in this post).
 

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If you get it cleared out again, get some fast growing trees planted on the downhill side.

Willows suck up lots of water and have big root systems.
 
Good idea PB. Also afraid of losing some of the trees on the edge of the hill on the up side of the road. View up hill from the slip. Last pic is of the river from the slip.
 

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Trees and roots are what hold hillsides up.

Leyland Cypress grow like stink and are easy to manage. You could even just transplant some small trees from your property.
 
take the big tree down, seems like it son its way. is it slipping above the tress where i circled it? or is that something else?
 

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I know the big tree is a goner. Don't believe it is slipping up there on the hill. I think that is brush growth. I will double check it next time I'm down there. It will be a few days as we have a granddaughter turning two this weekend.
 
I can't answer your question on how to stop your slip but I have a trail to a large river much like yours. you said it was good for 14years . the slip just got bad or did it just appear?
You just graded it in the fall and over the winter I would expect some settling. I would just add a few rocks and see what happens. Unless it is really bad and looks like it may give away when you drive over it. RTV what is that ?
 
Jim,
The RTV is a Kubota side by side. Kubota calls them RTV's. Here are pics of the one I bought in December. It's a used 06 model. It has a small 3 cyl diesel engine, will hold 1/2 ton in the dump bed and can tow 2000 pounds (or more). It's a little work horse. It weighs 2000 pounds, so I am leery of driving it over the area where the dirt has slipped and I now have a plan to 'pin' the dirt in place and add some gravel ...more on that in next post.
 

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I've opted to try Muley's idea of driving in 5ft stakes of 3/4" rebar in the area in hopes that will pin the dirt to the bottom layer that has been in place for years. Like was pointed out, it is probably the new dirt that was bulldozed into place last fall is settling and the ground under it is most likely staying in place. The stakes of rebar might hold it all in place, plus I'll add some gravel to the area to help with drainage.

I have the rebar and a post driver all set to go. Plus I have some younger backs (SIL's) coming here to help drive the 24 5' rebar stakes. With a little luck the slip should be under control and passable this weekend.
 
I would like to know how your RTV does hauling a heavy load up your hill. Reports are that it's dissapointing.
I'll try to get some pictures of my hill to a river. It looks like it may be steeper but many rocks and roots. I run yamaha rino on it.
 
I was extremely concerned about the RTV on the hills. As others have posted over on Net Tractor Talk, the RTV is poor at climbing in anything but Low gear. In Low I have been impressed with it's climbing ability. It has plenty of 'guts' or low end torque from my experience. I sure consider my hills steep, and the camera does not represent them very well. Maybe take some pics of your hills and compare the pics with mine to see how close they really are. I have tried and others have tried to show the steepness of hills in posts and we have not fared well at that task.

We have one member down in FL who has a fleet of RTV's and he pulls 9 or so cars filled with people around a complex. I was very impressed with his story, how many hours he put on the RTV's and the load he is towing. Noted it is on pavement and more level than not.

Also, as you've probably heard, these RTV's are not speed demons like the Rino's. Rino's will get up and go. :eek: RTV's top end is 26mph. I started to go with a Rino but went with the RTV because of the payload and the power dump. :thumb: I've been happy with my choice so far.

edit to add:
All that said, I have not carried heavy load up my hills. I've been carrying loads down, but do not haul the material up the hill afterwards as I use it down at the river lot. After building docks on May 11th and 12th I will have to haul our worksite equipment back up the hills. I'll report back to you have that has been accomplished.
 
I have roads at my cabin with similar problems there are the guides I use to maintain them.

You cant have any run off off the edge of the road it causes to much saturation of the soil and if it is off bank not compacted it is porous and absorbs the water causing the slide.

Pitch the road to the hill put water bars in to direct slow water down put drains on hill side and under road to a rock wash out area to prevent erosion.

water bars
http://www.na.fs.fed.us/spfo/pubs/stewardship/accessroads/construction.htm

conveyor belt bar
http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/naturalresources/DD6974.html


look as side wall drawings in this link

http://www.oregon.gov/odf/privateforests/docs/criticalroadlocationsfptechnote7.pdf



road videos and roads on small acreage

http://www.ruraltech.org/projects/roads/




Gravel road building

http://water.epa.gov/polwaste/nps/gravelroads_index.cfm


tom
 
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