Mainer
Boggie likes our museum
Just dire situation of everything is dead except for 12 V car batteries.
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Home Generator Questions
- Thread starter Melensdad
- Start date
Just dire situation of everything is dead except for 12 V car batteries.
I suppose in a remote setting, or a cabin that would make a good deal of sense, especially if there was a solar panel or wind generator too. I was thinking about a primary home application where the house is already attached to the grid and was wondering if there was some reason to run 12v instead of 120v.
mtntopper
Back On Track
My home was already set up with 12 volt wiring and lighting through out the house prior to the electric grid availability at my location. It was used as a supplement to the generator which was the primary power source before the grid power was available. The original home was designed to be a summer vacation type home only. The 12 volt system is a very simple and a cost effective emergency power source which allows me to shut the generator down and have lighting in the house. The 12 volt system can be used at any time since it is separate from the 120 volt generator/grid system. I also have a 12 volt RV type water pump that is an exact replacement for my 120 volt emergency one that I can install in my home water system to pressurize the house if needed. The backup battery source for a complete 120 volt solar installation will cost thousands while a single 12 volt high quality deep cycle battery costs a couple hundred. If you are already backing up your grid power with a generator then the 120 volt solar option to me is too costly and not worth the added costs of equipment and installation.
I have neighbors that do not have grid power and they are spending up to $60,000.00 for sophisticated 120 volt solar and wind equipment to power their cabins and homes. They also keep a generator backup operational in case the solar system fails which seems to happen quite often. Solar is not cheap and the payback when it is the sole source of power does not happen for many years if at all.
I have neighbors that do not have grid power and they are spending up to $60,000.00 for sophisticated 120 volt solar and wind equipment to power their cabins and homes. They also keep a generator backup operational in case the solar system fails which seems to happen quite often. Solar is not cheap and the payback when it is the sole source of power does not happen for many years if at all.
Mainer
Boggie likes our museum
I'm fine in terms of lighting with the auto-switching generator so my concern is more along the lines of total failure...all generator-based systems fail in various ways/forms. Then the 12V is stand-alone and can be topped up with solar but could never replace the full requirement but that's obviously ok in dire situations. I'd also like the 12V when coupled with a redundant set of electronic gear... I just like the idea of total redundancy for critical items no matter what... so I can have a 12V system powering the lights but also communications gear that is designed for 12V... and if needed I could take that communications gear mobile given the voltage compatibility.
But then I guess a person could keep going.... pedal powered lights????
But then I guess a person could keep going.... pedal powered lights????
fogtender
Now a Published Author
On my cabin, I have a generator there, but since I only get to spend a few days at a time there, there is a battery bank with a 55W solar panel pointing directly South so we get the most of the little winter sun that is got. I have the cabin wired for 110AC and use a 2500 watt inverter with a 5000 surge ability.
Instead of having two wiring systems, I just use the one AC system, and if the extra power is required, I can start the Generator. When I leave, I don't have to run the generator for a few hours to charge the batteries up, the solar panel does that over the week or so.
Just having a 12V system in a small cabin is OK, but anything larger, and there is a lot of Amp's required to push it to the far ends of a house, where the inverter is set close to the batteries and the loss is much less. I know there is a loss in the conversion, but not having two separate wiring systems is good too.
At the house, I have a 5.5 KW for an emergency backup, but have to put it on line manually. The heat is oil, so the gen. will run that fine with no real load, the only issue is the hot water heater and I can take one element offline if I need to use it and power is going to be off more than a few hours, or the electric stove, and one or two burners at a time isn't a problem. Wood heat is normally used as a supplement, but can heat the entire house...
D
darroll
Guest
It won’t hurt your generator to keep it running for long periods of time.
The most damage was from leaving them sit for long periods of time without using them.
We went to running them once a week, year round at work if they were needed or not.
This is one reason that I don’t use one at home.
The most damage was from leaving them sit for long periods of time without using them.
We went to running them once a week, year round at work if they were needed or not.
This is one reason that I don’t use one at home.
I have been looking at solar panels and priced a system of panels, no inverter, no battery bank, just basically a system to sell back electricity to the power company. There was an 82 year pay-back for the system! I live in a state where there are no tax credits for installing panels, and given payback time I decided to pass on the system! Adding an inverter and batteries to create a back-up system during power outages would have dramatically increased the costs. So I am sticking with my generator.
I do think that since my generator is inside my garage I need to figure out a way to run the exhaust outside so I can close the doors when I run the generator. I've been considering welding up a motorcycle muffler and some exhaust tubing and running it through a hole in the rear wall fo the garage.
As for longer running times, I suppose there is no reason for my extreme caution other than for the sake of caution. I do like to make sure the oil is clean and full, so I'll probably still check it several times a day as I have in the past.
I do think that since my generator is inside my garage I need to figure out a way to run the exhaust outside so I can close the doors when I run the generator. I've been considering welding up a motorcycle muffler and some exhaust tubing and running it through a hole in the rear wall fo the garage.
As for longer running times, I suppose there is no reason for my extreme caution other than for the sake of caution. I do like to make sure the oil is clean and full, so I'll probably still check it several times a day as I have in the past.
Mainer
Boggie likes our museum
Agree... I don't see the issue...these units are designed for the purpose of sustained energy provisioning. I'd feel comfortable running mine for days with shut downs to change oil, etc... I have really wanted to be a solar guy but as stated previously here, the payback is enormous...wind too... that's why I'll probably end up going generator until the price point is made reasonable. Ob will take care of credits right???? ROFL!!!!!! Blah!
Bob, I seriously looked into solar when I got into a pissing contest with the utility company many years ago and I don't remember the payback period being anything like 82 years. I think it was something closer to 20 years but not that it matters much because the life expectancy of the batteries was approximately 15 years and the solar panels was about 20 years so really there was no payback period. If you were lucky you might break even before having to start all over again. I remember reading all kinds of studies where it was stated that solar would be a viable alternative when oil reached $50/bbl. I wonder what happened to that prediction?
As far as extending your generator exhaust system, I'm not very knowledgeable about such things but wouldn't that increase the back pressure on the engine and decrease its combustion efficiency. Perhaps someone smarter than me will be able to comment.
I'm with you to a certain extent. If I could economically and efficiently cut myself off from the utility pole, I would. Unfortunately I don't seem to be able to find an alternative. So, until then I'll just stay connected to the grid, take whatever crap they want to hand out and look after my back-up generator as best I can.
fogtender
Now a Published Author
I don't know who does what with a gen for backup systems or running off the grid, but a battery bank is a good use of the power with an inverter. If you charge a battery to the 80% level, it will take the same amount of time to bring it to the 80 to 100% level.
Instead of running your generator for 24 hours with little load, you can run it at almost max power for a few hours and charge the battery bank to 80%, and then shut it off and run on battery power. The cost of the Batteries, inverter and charger will be offset by the fuel savings and longer life of the generator.
A water cooled generator can have the waste heat (cooling heat) used to heat a house by piping the coolant into the house and having a radiator type of heat exchanger inside, you can also draw the heat out of the exhaust system too. This can also cut the costs of heating in the winter instead of just blowing it off into the outside air. I don't like using the heat of an air cooled generator, too easy to have an exhaust leak and it mix in with the heated air that is used to heat living quarters.
You can even build a heat sump to put the heat into to store and then draw it out later when needed inside for heat after the generator has been shut down.
My exhaust on the stock system uses a 1" tube, by going to a motorcycle exhaust I could increase it to a 1.5" tube with a standard motorcycle muffler, that should allow me to run the exhaust up and out through the wall without creating an undue pressure problem, and give me the dual desired effects of redirecting the exhaust and quieting the system.
Mainer
Boggie likes our museum
Wow...just heard on the news there's another round of power outages in New Hampshire... saw people putting signs up on gov't detour routes..."Is this a plan?" "My kids are cold!"
You know what people... buy a F*ing generator and do some forward thinking.
Unbelievable to me how much people will blame everyone else for their incompetence. Most people spend on cable TV what they could easily spend on a generator...just decisions and values and then... rationalization to blame everyone but themselves.
Human nature.
You know what people... buy a F*ing generator and do some forward thinking.
Unbelievable to me how much people will blame everyone else for their incompetence. Most people spend on cable TV what they could easily spend on a generator...just decisions and values and then... rationalization to blame everyone but themselves.
Human nature.
BigAl
Gone But Not Forgotten
Bob , I would be real interested to know how well that works . I also have a big military Onan 3 phase /5000 watt gas generator that was used in Vietnam to power Hospitals . It supplies more power than I know what to do with . I can use the 3 legs off each to supply a total of 15000 watts .
Because it runs at a constant 3600 RPM's it is loud ....Very loud . There is a factory installed threaded 1 1/2 " pipe fitting where it exits the muffler . I am assuming it can also be fitting with another muffler to quiet it down .
P.S. This thing is 3 phase and I don't need this much power . If someone has something in the 8-10,000 watt range and needs 3 phase I would be willing to consider a trade or sale it and buy something a little smaller . It weighs about 500- 700 pounds and is on skids . Just rebuilt 12 engine hours ago by ArmyDepot . It is set up to be hard wired into any system and can be set up with remote start with a simple switch from the Auto parts store . It has all the built in fuse breakers too .
I know it is Christmas day, but I saw the same signs you are referring to and thought the very same thing! Maybe I should be more charitable on Christmas day but in the north, in the winter, in areas where there are real possibilities of ice storms and a history of outages then you have to do what is right and take care of your family. That can include planning ahead for problems like this.
Allen I was talking to my wife this morning about this and I think it will be a spring/summer project to come up with some sort of exhaust system that will 1) quiet this thing down + 2) redirect the exhaust gas through the wall -or- out the open doorway next to where the generator is sitting.