FRS/GMRS 2 way radios ... ultimate set up for modest range coverage?

[Melensdad]

Being a motorcycle guy, I've been really happy with, but also frustrated with, the in-helmet offerings from both CARDO (my choice) and SENA (the other major brand) for communications. Both now have MESH technology which helps in groups. But both offer pretty limited range. Yet both also have all sorts of conveniences like bluetooth to a GPS and simultaneously to a cell phone for communications, navigation and entertainment.

But in another thread, @tommu56 mentioned GMRS/FRS radios. So I dug a bit down that rabbit hole and came up with some useful information

Still there must be something better. And GMRS may be that option, at least for mid-range communications. Which can also work for cabin, farm, property and group communications. Snowcat applications seem pretty reasonable too, at least with the GMRS options, which have higher transmission wattage and can utilize a vehicle mounted antenna.

Here is an interesting article from Adventure Rider, a motorcycle news site and discussion forum.

FRS and GMRS Radio: The Ultimate Motorcycle Communicator? - Adventure Rider

Pairing motorcycle helmet communicators can be difficult, but FRS and GMRS radios may provide an easy way to keep in touch on the road.

www.advrider.com

Communications FRS and GMRS Radio: The Ultimate Motorcycle Communicator?​

No pairing, no incompatibility, just talk​

Justin Hughes / @White&Nerdy

2/6/2024​

​

Photo: Justin Hughes​

​

Writing about the Sena MeshPort Blue reminded me of all the problems modern motorcycle communicators have. They can be tricky to pair, Sena and Cardo don’t play nicely together, their range is limited despite manufacturer claims… The list goes on. It also reminded me of an alternative that I’ve been using since long before Bluetooth was even invented: radio. FRS and GMRS radios may be a viable alternative to traditional helmet communicators.​

​

I’ve been an amateur radio operator since I was a kid. Even now, I carry a handheld radio with me on the bike. If I run into trouble and I’m out of cell service (all the best riding seems to be out of cell service), the national calling frequency or a nearby repeater might get me the help I need. I don’t have it set up to use while I’m riding. Years ago I did, with a helmet headset and push-to-talk button on the handlebars, but soon realized I’d rather enjoy the ride than chatter on the radio. That would be different if the people I chattered with were my riding buddies, but you need to pass a test to get a ham radio license and at the time equipment was quite expensive.​

​

A recent video by Jake the Garden Snake has made me rethink this idea. He and his friend Rivet have been experimenting with various radios for some time, and have some specific recommendations in this video, which I’ll get into later. Rather than ham radio, where my experience lies, they’ve been testing FRS and GMRS radios. FRS requires no license at all. GMRS does require a license, but all that takes in the US is a $35 fee to the FCC, with no test, and it’s valid for 10 years. It allows more power than FRS. In the US, but not Canada, you’re also allowed to use a different antenna than the radio comes with and even use repeaters. It’s no wonder why Jeep, UTV, and other 4×4 enthusiasts have been flocking to GMRS as an alternative to the CB radio they’ve traditionally used. Even better, FRS and GMRS radios can talk directly to each other, because they share most of the same channels. There’s no conflict between different brands, either. A high-end Kenwood GMRS radio can talk to a cheap no-name FRS radio you picked up from Amazon or Walmart with no trouble at all.​

​

Of course, off-road motorcycling has a few more challenges than driving a Jeep. We’re wearing helmets and need both hands on the grips, which rules out holding a walkie-talkie style radio up to your face while you ride. Helmet communicators work completely hands-free, which is why they remain popular despite the difficulty of pairing them and keeping them connected. They also have a limited range. Bluetooth transmitters are only 0.2 watts on the 2.4 GHz microwave band. This is because it was originally designed to wirelessly connect your phone to your car. The distance involved here is only a few feet, and there are no obstructions, which block microwave signals. While some helmet communicators claim half a mile or more of range, that’s only in line-of-sight conditions, where you can literally see the other people you’re talking to. Go around a corner in the mountains or the forest, and you lose that line of sight.​

​

FRS and GMRS radios operate on channels in the 462 MHz range. That’s a much lower frequency than Bluetooth, which means it’s not affected as much by obstructions. FRS radios also put out two watts of power, ten times more than Bluetooth. GMRS handheld radios can go up to five watts. You can even go crazy with a larger mobile radio that can transmit 50 watts on certain channels, but this is far more practical in a 4×4 than on a motorcycle.​

​

​

Image: Rugged Radios​

​

Rugged Radios is a popular GMRS radio brand among four-wheeled off-roaders. They offer a motorcycle kit that includes a handheld radio, a wired helmet headset, and a push-to-talk button for your handlebars for just under $200. It’s a robust setup, made specifically to handle the harsh environment of off-road riding, but you can only have one headset in your helmet at the same time. You’d have to choose between the radio or a Bluetooth communicator and all of its other conveniences.​

​

​

Photo: Oxbow​

​

The alternative is a Bluetooth-compatible radio, such as the Oxbow Renegade X that Jake tests in his video. You can pair it to your existing helmet communicator as a second phone, eliminating the need for a dedicated radio headset as well as the wiring involved with the Rugged Radios setup. This convenience even costs less than the Rugged Radios kit at $144. It does not include a remote push-to-talk switch for your handlebars, but you can pick up a generic one for $29 on Amazon, pair everything up, and still come out ahead.​

​

​

Photo: Baofeng / Amazon​

​

If you’re willing to get a little bit techie, you can save half of that cost. The basic Baofeng FRS radios Jake recommends are no longer available on Amazon, but this two-pack costs $20. Add Baofeng’s Bluetooth adapter, which plugs into the side of the radio instead of an external speaker/microphone, for $37. This kit even includes a push-to-talk button. That makes a complete Bluetooth-enabled FRS radio, including an entire spare radio, for $57. Both this and the Oxbow are FRS radios that do not require a license. You can just buy them and use them.​

​

​

Photo: Radioddity / Amazon​

​

Since I’m already a radio nerd, I splurged for a GMRS license. My personal pick would be the Radioddity GM-30 which, for $40 on Amazon, provides built-in Bluetooth and the full five watts of power that GMRS allows. You can replace the antenna with a better-performing one if you like, even a mobile antenna mounted to your bike if you want to go that far. The only thing it doesn’t include is a remote push-to-talk button, but the generic $29 one mentioned before will work.​

​

​

Photo: BTECH / Amazon​

​

If you’re a bigger radio nerd than me, the BTECH GMRS-PRO may interest you. It’s a more expensive option at $155, and you may want the $29 remote push-to-talk button, but this radio has a ton of extra features. It’s IP67 waterproof, meaning it can be submerged in up to one meter of water for up to 30 minutes. It can monitor two channels at the same time. It includes an FM broadcast radio receiver, as well as NOAA weather radio. It supports text messaging between users, completely separate from phones and cell towers. A built-in GPS can beacon your location to other users of this radio. If your group invests in these and you lose a rider, this can help you find them. Features like these were previously reserved for the amateur radio realm (trust me, I’ve used them), but radios like this now make them available to GMRS power users who want to experiment without taking a ham radio license test. Try that with a Sena or Cardo communicator.​

​

Since I usually end up riding alone, I haven’t put any of these FRS and GMRS radios to the test for myself. The concept, however, is sound. The disadvantage of a wired headset, and having to choose between that or a standard motorcycle Bluetooth headset, is eliminated with these Bluetooth-equipped radios. I’m tempted to pick up the Baofeng Bluetooth interface and a push-to-talk button to try out with my Baofeng ham radio to see how it works. I’ll report back if I do.​

 

[tommu56]

I have the sena to keep track of Mrs tommu56 (she has one on her helmet too) when we are riding I also keep it paired to my phone when I lived down by filthadelphia and keep music on it playing while I ride
Up here in the stix (north central Pa.) phone service is spotty in the valley i live in but i still keep it paired.

I have considered a GRMS radio base station and external antenna at camp as a back up devise but haven't decided to spring for it yet.
I was considering ham license but my wife wouldn't even attempt to get that grms includes family from what I read.

We use the FRMS radios at hunting camp (not my cabin / camp) to get help if we get a bear or dear I'm too old to drag them out by myself

 

[Melensdad]

Just looking at some of the mobile & base station GMRS units and they are available up to 50 watts for extended range. Seems like the GMRS units are economical and potentially viable for many as an alternative.

 

[Doc]

What kind of license did you get for the GMRS?

 

[tommu56]

What kind of license did you get for the GMRS?

linkey

WHY DO I NEED A GMRS LICENSE & HOW DO I GET IT?​

The FCC requires a GMRS radio license as a way to regulate frequencies that are used by two-way radio devices. Before operating a GMRS radio, a consumer must have a valid license. Any radio using the shared FRS/GMRS frequencies that is able to transmit above 2 Watts of power was reclassified as GMRS only after the recent FCC Changes in September 2017. GMRS radios can be handhelds or in-unit mobile radios.

We know the FCC website is a confusing place, so we are here to help demystify the GMRS licensing process. Fair warning, this might be dry but it is important information! Stick with us!

TOP GMRS LICENSE TAKE-A-WAYS​

• Applicant must be 18+
• Not a representative of a foreign government
• Only available to individuals, aka no new business GMRS license (there are some that are grandfathered in, but that’s a different story circa 1987)
• No test, just payment; $35 and good for 10 years
• License covers you and your immediate family (husband, wife, kids, siblings, grandparents, aunts, uncles, you get the point!)
• If you have been convicted of a felony in the past, you will need to disclose more information as to the context of the charges (this does not mean you will automatically denied)
• And finally, follow the rules set forth by the FCC

WAIT, WHAT ARE THE FCC RULES?​

• If an authorized FCC representative request to inspect a GMRS station (This means anything GMRS; handheld, mobile unit, base units, etc), the operator must make the station and any station records available
• No messages in connection with any activity which is against Federal, State, or local law
• No false or deceptive messages
• No coded messages with hidden meanings (“10 codes” are permissible – CB users, you know what we mean but for those of you scratching your head check this link for a 10 Code List)
• No music, whistling, sound effects or material to amuse or entertain
• No ads or offers for the sale of goods or services
• No ads for political candidate or political campaign
• No international distress signals (like Mayday) unless in a vehicle in immediate danger
• No communicating with stations in the Amateur Radio Service, any unauthorized station, or to any foreign station
• No continuous or uninterrupted transmissions (unless communications have to do with the immediate safety of life or property)
• No messages for public address systems
• Must identify using FCC-assigned call sign at the end of transmissions and at periodic intervals during transmissions

THAT’S A LOT OF RULES, WHY DO I WANT GMRS AGAIN?​

Increased Power – Compatibility to FRS Radios – Repeater Capable – Low Cost

SO, HOW DO I APPLY?​

Online! Go to the FCC Website by following the information listed under “Filing Instructions” below.

Remember: you must register for a FRN as a Domestic Individual. This allows you to do business (ie. pay) the FCC. Once you receive your FRN, which typically happens moments after submitting the form, you are able to fill out the online application and purchase your GMRS license. Information directly from the FCC below.

Let’s get started!!

*BELOW INFO DIRECT FROM FCC HELP DESK*

NEW GENERAL MOBILE RADIO SERVICE (GMRS) FILING INSTRUCTIONS​

Per Public Notice DA 15-72, the FCC no longer mails license authorizations. If you provide an email address on your application, an official copy of your GMRS radio license will be automatically emailed to you after the application has granted.

Steps to Filing an Application for a new GMRS Station license in the Universal Licensing System (ULS):

1. Go to https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsEntry/licManager/login.jsp and log in with your FCC Registration Number (FRN) and password. After entering your password, proceed to Step 2 below to begin filing the application.

If you do not have an FRN, you can register for one here: https://apps.fcc.gov/coresWeb/publicHome.do or by clicking the "Register with the FCC" link under the Submit button on the Log In page.

NOTE: You will be prompted to register and verify a username account prior to obtaining your FRN.

If you do not know your FRN, you can search for it by entering your call sign here:
http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/searchLicense.jsp or by clicking the "Check your licenses" link under the submit button on the Log In page.

If you do not know the password:
• Click on the Contact Tech Support link under the Submit button on the Log In page.
• On the next page, click the link and follow the prompts for resetting the password.
• After receiving confirmation of a successful password reset, click the link for Universal Licensing System (DO NOT click the CORES Public Interface link.)
• Click the yellow ULS License Manager button to return to the Log In page.
• Enter the FRN and password and click the Submit button.

2. On the left side of the page, click the Apply for a New License link.

3. Choose "ZA - General Mobile Radio Service (GMRS)" from the radio service drop down list.

4. Click Continue to navigate through the application.

5. On the Summary page, review your application and click the Continue to Certify button to continue.

6. On the Certification page, sign your application by typing your name in the boxes provided and click the Submit button. (The Title box is optional.)

7. ULS will calculate the fees. Fees for online filing MUST be received within 10 calendar days of the filing.

8. Click the Continue For Payment Options button to choose the method of payment.

Further information can be found on General Mobile Radio Service (GMRS) on the FCC website.

The GMRS license rules are found in Part 95, Subpart A of the Code of Federal Regulations. The rules are available at the Electronic Code of Federal Regulations website.

DOWNLOADING AUTHORIZATIONS IN ULS​

After your application has been granted, you may also download an official copy of your license from the License Manager by following the steps below:

1. Go to https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsEntry/licManager/login.jsp and log in with your FCC Registration Number (FRN) and password.

2. Click the "Download Electronic Authorizations" link on the navigation bar on the left side of the License Manager home page.

3. In the My Authorizations box at the bottom of the page, select the call sign(s) you wish to download.

4. Add the call signs to the Authorizations to Download box by clicking the Add button.

5. Click the Download button in the lower right-hand corner of the page.

The download will be automatically converted to a PDF file, and you can choose to Open (to print) or Save (to save to a desired folder).

 

[Doc]

Seems extreme for just using a hand held. CB's were 5 watts and over.
I will consider this. Would be handy at times.

 

[Melensdad]

Seems extreme for just using a hand held. CB's were 5 watts and over.
I will consider this. Would be handy at times.

I would generally disagree.

GMRS gives a couple hundred channels so you have less chatter and interference, plus the ability to bounce off repeaters for potentially much longer ranges. The license is a mere formality, pay a few $, no test, good for 10 years and covers the families usage.

 

[mbsieg]

I would generally disagree.

GMRS gives a couple hundred channels so you have less chatter and interference, plus the ability to bounce off repeaters for potentially much longer ranges. The license is a mere formality, pay a few $, no test, good for 10 years and covers the families usage.

You are somewhat correct there, there are only 22 frequencies. The different sub audible tones are what give you the feeling You have a completely different frequency, but in all reality you do not. If you monitor those 22 frequencies you will be able to hear everything being said. So if you are on channel 5 and someone else is talking on channel 5 even changing the privacy code will not allow you to talk over the other person. Just FYI



Channel 1: 462.5625 MHz, FRS/GMRS

Channel 2: 462.5875 MHz, FRS/GMRS

Channel 3: 462.6125 MHz, FRS/GMRS

Channel 4: 462.6375 MHz, FRS/GMRS

Channel 5: 462.6625 MHz, FRS/GMRS

Channel 6: 462.6875 MHz, FRS/GMRS

Channel 7: 462.7125 MHz, FRS/GMRS

Channel 8: 467.5625 MHz, FRS

Channel 9: 467.5875 MHz, FRS

Channel 10: 467.6125 MHz, FRS

Channel 11: 467.6375 MHz, FRS

Channel 12: 467.6625 MHz, FRS

Channel 13: 467.6875 MHz, FRS

Channel 14: 467.7125 MHz, FRS

Channel 15: 462.55 MHz, GMRS

Channel 16: 462.575 MHz, GMRS

Channel 17: 462.6 MHz, GMRS

Channel 18: 462.625 MHz, GMRS

Channel 19: 462.65 MHz, GMRS

Channel 20: 462.675 MHz, GMRS

Channel 21: 462.7 MHz, GMRS

Channel 22: 462.725 MHz, GMRS

 

[Melensdad]

Well I just figured out that I can access 3 different GMRS Repeaters.

I also figured out that 1 of those is capable of reaching all the way to Chicago. So using that repeater I could theoretically reach all the way up to Melen in an emergency. I presume that repeater is owned by a GMRS group, so it is a closed to the public unless you join their group, but I've not looked deeply into that unit.

 

[tommu56]

I didn't watch this but i plan to

 

[Melensdad]

I didn't watch this but i plan to

I watched it. Don't waste your time.

The big lie is transmission/reception range. Radio ADVERTISES a theoretical range of 10 miles . . . but of course that is HILL TOP TO HILL TOP with unobstructed view etc.

So the whole video is basically telling consumers that the walkie talkies are good for 1 to 2 miles.

 

[Dllipwest]

I went the CARDO route too, and while the MESH tech is great for group rides, I often found the range lacking, especially when we were spread out.

 

[Dllipwest]

I went the CARDO route too, and while the MESH tech is great for group rides, I often found the range lacking, especially when we were spread out.

After hearing about GMRS radios, I decided to explore that option. I ended up trying some Icom walkie talkies on a recent trip, and they worked surprisingly well. We were out in the hills, and with the right setup, we managed to stay connected even when the group got separated. The clarity was way better than what I was getting with my helmet system. Plus, the ability to use a vehicle-mounted antenna was a nice touch for extended range.

 

[Melensdad]

After hearing about GMRS radios, I decided to explore that option. I ended up trying some Icom walkie talkies on a recent trip, and they worked surprisingly well. We were out in the hills, and with the right setup, we managed to stay connected even when the group got separated. The clarity was way better than what I was getting with my helmet system. Plus, the ability to use a vehicle-mounted antenna was a nice touch for extended range.

Just curious, do you use a vehicle mounted GMRS on your motorcycle or is it a handheld unit, worn on your person, but attached by cable to the vehicle mounted antenna?

 

[tommu56]

After the flooding up here and watching north carolina and tennessee im looking in to this again then again it might be a ham setup

 

[Melensdad]

After the flooding up here and watching north carolina and tennessee im looking in to this again then again it might be a ham setup

My take on these two types (GMRS vs HAM) is very different.

GMRS is a radio you USE DURING YOUR HOBBY for communications. So they are very popular with 4x4/offroaders who go off in family/friend groups and need to communicate when out of sight. These are people who are already friends/family. I see a similar thing with GMRS group communications in motorcycling, people who switch from dedicated CARDO or SENA headsets to something that pushes out the range farther and therefore GMRS makes sense.

HAM/Short Wave is a radio you USE AS YOUR HOBBY for communications. The "Ham" people get on the radio to talk to each other, but don't know each other (sort of like this forum but many of us have actually met and get together).

From the standpoint of "emergency" communications, seems like HAM wins hands down.

Due to the advanced degree that my left wrist joint has deteriorated, I've recently sold the motorcycles.

But I still think about this sort of a system, largely because of my late night drives to/from the Purdue University campus through areas without reliable cell coverage. A "ham" in the truck and matching set up at home would work. GMRS would not work because of the way (I believe) the repeaters work and because of the (from what I can find) available repeaters overlapping my path.