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first adventure w snowtrac not so good

Cidertom

Chionophile
GOLD Patron
US Air Force Veteran
Started out good. Made it about 4 miles in with a 1500 ft elevation gain. Got to a 36 in dia tree across the road. Turned around and made it about 2 miles back when it started backfiring, and stalling. Managed to get it to a turnout. Then it wouldn't restart. Checked fuel, spark. Had small amout of water in the bottom of the sediment bowl. Fuel to the carb looked good. took about a minute to fill a 16 oz bottle. lucky the snow there isn't too deep. Got a 4wd wrecker inbound tomorrow.
 
Did you check the points? It sounds like it might be an easy fix. I have the same thing happen in my VW bus a few times. Most of the time it's the points.
 
points looked clean. But ...

Didn't work on it too long, wanted to make the truck in the daylight.


I should have run the rig by a VW mech before the trip, but I needed to get up the hill.
 
Keep your chin up there will be better days. Nothing like some short trips around the area when it isn't time for the real deal first. Not sure what issue you are having though. Fuel air and spark are all that is needed. Shouldn't be too hard to figure out.

It sucks though the first time out. My condolences.....Been there done that...

Regards, Kirk
 
I would throw points, condensor and cap in it before trying to drag it out. It sounds like you have more than enough fuel to run it.
 
I'm at about the same stage as you are with my Snow Trac. I've taken it out a few time, had to walk back once. Still working out some issues but it's getting closer to being reliable.
I would guess it's the gap in the points. They can still look clean and be too close to run well. I'm not expert, I just drive a VW Bus a fair amount. Keep up posted and put some pics up!
 
I would throw points, condensor and cap in it before trying to drag it out. It sounds like you have more than enough fuel to run it.

Problem is, I have a fairly narrow window to get help up there, and if I miss this opportunity today, I may have to hire a cat to go in and pull it out. The snow is fairly shallow between the cat and where I can get the trailer to it. A storm with additional snow is inbound with 6-8" predicted. It is not the ideal situation, but I have to get it off the road.

I will let everyone know the outcome.

I ran the cat for two hours up and down my pasture before I started this adventure and it worked well. Since I have to drive to get to snow, anywhere I take it is likely to present the same problems. I should have had a VW mechanic poke at it first but I needed to get to the hill and hiring a ride after spending the money to buy the cat would have set the wife unit off I fear.
 
i don't know your weather conditions but was your cap wet. i have faught that battle for years up here with fine dusty snow combined with wind. my solution was a plastic bag a tube of silicone and zip ties. i used a heavy plastic bag ziplock freezer type ran the wires through a hole cut in the top, silicones and zip tied the top, and draped the whole works over the distibutor now i have no more problems with a wet cap i will try to photograph today after sun up.
 
Murphy's law.....

Like kirk said chin up......

With misfires, I am generally electrically focused when trouble shooting, However I have seen frosted carbs act that way, Any chance the dew point was unusually low or high? don't be afraid to peek down the carb, A little ring of frost on the venturi will cause fits.

and loose wires, points, condensors, wet caps, shorting power wires. ect....
 
Murphy's law.....

Like kirk said chin up......

With misfires, I am generally electrically focused when trouble shooting, However I have seen frosted carbs act that way, Any chance the dew point was unusually low or high? don't be afraid to peek down the carb, A little ring of frost on the venturi will cause fits.

and loose wires, points, condensors, wet caps, shorting power wires. ect....

when i get pics later i will also show the solution i have for carb ice it raises my intake temp to 70 degrees at 30 ambiant out side i have had no problems since i put it together this weekend .
 
Has anybody tried the 'solid state' or electronic ignition replacement for points in their snow trac or Bug? They are readily available for 30/40 bucks and may be more reliable than points. I don't have any experience with them yet but plan to change to them soon.
 
i have had experiance with them on vw powered suction dredges and have not been too impressed most of the ones i have delt with i have reverted back to points. when every thing comes in mail order you have to order up two or three of those things so when on e dies you have a replacement right now
 
here is a picture of my solution to both the wet distributor and carb ice. the covered distributor looks a little redneck but it works well improvesed it in teh middle of a blizzard. the intake air heat exchanger was made with some excess exhaust parts and works well.
 
here is a picture of my solution to both the wet distributor and carb ice. the covered distributor looks a little redneck but it works well improvesed it in teh middle of a blizzard. the intake air heat exchanger was made with some excess exhaust parts and works well.
trying it again packet loss has been a pain lately
 

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I put a Pertronix electronic ignition module in my 1404 a couple seasons ago and have been extremely happy with it. Some folks distrust the electronics (fearing that they'll fail and leave them stranded), but I have more faith in solid state electronics than I do in moving mechanical parts. Of course, your mileage may vary...

Ron
 
Todays update.
Couldn't get recovery rig up to cat. Not far, but really steep and they just couldn't make it. While there the driver and I tinkered with it. The fuel is bubbeling out of a hole. We suspect that the little brass tube that is supposed to spray the fuel down the throat is missing. A shade tree mech that works on VW busses agreed, and lent me a carb to try. Only it didn't fit. different flange.

Tomorrow I'm going by a shop that specializes in VW's and see if they can help.


I also confirmed I have to have brakes on this rig. The engine turned off would NOT hold the unit on the road I went up.
Whine -whimper
 
i can put up to a 100 miles a day on mine it's a long walk home, i can always file points if necessary .if i were doing cabin acess an electronic conversion may not be a bad idea ,as for missing card parts where did it go i would be concerned about that accelerator pump nozzle getting in to one of the valves. which engine do you have a a single port card would be a pict 28/30 or a 32, and the dual port is a pict 34 contact carcraftinc.com and you can buy a new carb for about $130.00
 
Todays update.
Couldn't get recovery rig up to cat. Not far, but really steep and they just couldn't make it. While there the driver and I tinkered with it. The fuel is bubbeling out of a hole. We suspect that the little brass tube that is supposed to spray the fuel down the throat is missing. A shade tree mech that works on VW busses agreed, and lent me a carb to try. Only it didn't fit. different flange.

Tomorrow I'm going by a shop that specializes in VW's and see if they can help.


I also confirmed I have to have brakes on this rig. The engine turned off would NOT hold the unit on the road I went up.
Whine -whimper

In 4th gear? It will in the lower two for sure. In forth there is no reduction occuring in the transmission. This is why you pull start a manual trans in 4th gear, as itis easiest to roll the motor over in this 1:1 ratio....

Hope you get it up and running soon. Sounds like your on to what may be wrong. Where did the brass tube go?? Not into the engine I hope:ermm:..

Good luck, Kirk:flowers:
 
Has anybody tried the 'solid state' or electronic ignition replacement for points in their snow trac or Bug? They are readily available for 30/40 bucks and may be more reliable than points. I don't have any experience with them yet but plan to change to them soon.
I think your way off on the cost.
The ones I got were twice that. My pretronics dist. pckup failed this season. I was doing a check over prior to taking it out and after about 15 min it just stopped. They replaced it and I bought a spare to carry. I always vacumn seal the points that I remove to carry in my parts box.
First runs on an old maching should be done with a second rig following.
On our wet snow I was able to lower the air on my 85 chev pickups tires and drive in the snow tracs tracks to repair it. I often thought about a set of skis for a trailer.
 
skies on a trailer unnecessary some day i will post my tow bar set up the snow trac pulls like a trailer on a rigid towbar, like you use on a jeep. only had to pull it home once when it dropped a valve other wise it alows me to move 2 vehicles home at the same time
 
In 4th gear? It will in the lower two for sure. In forth there is no reduction occuring in the transmission.

Wouldn't hold in reverse. I was able to steer it into a bank to get it stopped. While some of the issues may be weak motor, several stretches of the road I was on, the cat wanted to be in first. My 4Runner going up those same stretches likes to spin all 4 tires in summer unless I'm real careful The road gains 4000 ft elevation in just under 15 miles.

One of the sites I go to has a specified cat route (10ft high snow markers) cross country. It shaves off 10 miles of road but has 50% ++grade in places. Ugh, I may stick to the 10% road route.

I may be asking too much of the unit, but I figured if it was used to groom slopes it should be able to handle the roads.
 
Cidertom,

Factory literature states they can go up a 60% grade... I think mine with an old single port 1600 could if there is traction...

The engine may be tired from the grooming duties. This has to be tough on a VW engine...Set the valve lash, (very important if you have not you should, now..) and do a compression check on the cylinders with the throttle wide open and the coil wire removed. Have you got the Keep your VW alive for Dummies book? It is a must as well. On the plus side if you can do the work it is relatively cheap to rebuild. Ask here on what to put into it if you do....

Regards, Kirk
 
Cidertom,

Factory literature states they can go up a 60% grade... I think mine with an old single port 1600 could if there is traction...

The engine may be tired from the grooming duties. This has to be tough on a VW engine...Set the valve lash, (very important if you have not you should, now..) and do a compression check on the cylinders with the throttle wide open and the coil wire removed. Have you got the Keep your VW alive for Dummies book? It is a must as well. On the plus side if you can do the work it is relatively cheap to rebuild. Ask here on what to put into it if you do....

Regards, Kirk


Without a doubt !!!!If you don't have it , run right out and buy it , Best $16 bucks I ever spent!!!
 
it sounds to me like you have some low compression my 1600 is capable of spinning the stock 200 mm clutch in high gear. yes i will be replacing it soon enough with a new high torque unit. you also don't want to lug an air cooled motor as it won't get enough air to cool when running hills or deep snow i keep my tach between 3000 to 4000 rpm the engine stays nice and cool, if i lug it down to 2500 or less i will see the cht climb quick.but mine will hold a hill in reverse and in 1,2,and 3 4th it can roll shut down the engine in 3rd and dump the clutch it stops fast, do it in second you will peal your face off the windshield. im not there but im guessing you have a worn out engine they are quite easy to re ring but ,you should also have the heads rebuilt i made that mistake and had to replace piston juggand both heads
 
Started out good. Made it about 4 miles in with a 1500 ft elevation gain. Got to a 36 in dia tree across the road. Turned around and made it about 2 miles back when it started backfiring, and stalling. Managed to get it to a turnout. Then it wouldn't restart. Checked fuel, spark. Had small amout of water in the bottom of the sediment bowl. Fuel to the carb looked good. took about a minute to fill a 16 oz bottle. lucky the snow there isn't too deep. Got a 4wd wrecker inbound tomorrow.

Check your timing. It may have slipped...
 
Tonights update.
Took carb to first shop " we don't work on industrial engines". Second shop was much more willing to work with me. Right off the bat, he said spark issues, when he heard what it was doing. Looked at carb and cleaned it out but didn't think the small amount of deposits were at fault. Also, for what it's worth, the industrial carb I have doesn't have, never had, that small brass tube. I reset the points, checked the spark and such. It did start, ran bad, but I was able to walk it off the worst part of the hill before it died and wouldn't restart. So there is hope I can get the 4WD wrecker to it tomorrow. The shop loanded me a known good distributor, but I ran out of daylight before I could put it in. At this point I just want to get it to the shop and say "fix it".
I figure on pulling the power package as a unit. This will open it up to install brakes, new master cylinder etc. Also some of the wiring is really crappy so I will take the opportunity to rewire as needed.
 
I know that the 1600 cc engine is supposed to be easy to work on. But right now the learning curve is just too steep. Once it is at a known good point I will be able to learn to maintain as I go. Of course having the cat 120 miles from home stuck on a mountain isn't helping my attitude either.
 
I had a shorted wire in my distributor and i thought it was a fuel problem. It bucked and wanted to stall all the time Little power. That was a 1200cc .
I wished I lived closer .
jim
 
Man, that's my worst nightmare, stuck on some snow covered fire trail where it's real tough to get out. :doh:

I don't own a Snow-Trac yet, but I have 35yrs of VW experience. I hate to sound like some know-it-all, blow-hard, but if I don't mention my experience, my advice might be dismissed. I've worked on air-cooled VW's as a hobby for years, have done the infamous VW Bus Shasta Snow Trip 3 times, and numerous long distance endurance rallies with air-cooled VW's, two of them were 1500mile 24hr under-the-radar, boot-leg races from Vancouver BC to Ensenada Mexico. I also drag race VWs and race at Bonneville (check the March 2013 cover of hotVW's magazine, upper left cover, and contents page is the yellow Ghia I drove to 156mph last September) We always carry spares.

For troubleshooting an older carbureted and points ignition engine, don't under estimate the efficiency and power of having known good spares.

Carb: Starting fluid... if it will run while spraying starting fluid into the air horn one spritz every 2 seconds while working the throttle, but dies when you stop spritzing, you have a fuel delivery problem. I'm not sure about icing, but I did have an old Baja bug (exposed engine) that I'd take skiing when I was a teen, who's carb would ice and it would refuse to idle. It would pop, sputter, and not run well, loosing the ability to idle, then the mid-range circuit would work. It would sort of run if I pumped the throttle and kept the rpms high, running off just the accelerator pump and main circuit. Pouring hot coffee directly on the exterior base would de-ice it, temporarily at least, until I could get to lower and warmer elevation.

Spark: If you remove the coil wire from the distributor, hold it 3/4" away from a decent ground, you should get a snappy blue spark bridging the gap 2 times per engine revolution. If not, may be an ignition problem. If you need to move the conductor to 1/4" or closer, and/or the spark is yellow and lazy, you have weak ignition from closed up points, low battery, bad ground, etc. No spark at all can be many things, including those above. But it sounds like you have spark some times.

The most common culprit is closed up points, that just need to be re-gapped, and you're on your way.
But if you have a weak fuel pump, spark plugs that are now fuel-fowled, a weak battery now, you can have a couple problems to sort at the same time.

Points: The cheap inferior rubbing block material used in modern replacement points is the culprit that leads to points closing up. A dab of dielectric grease (using a Q-tip) on the points cam/rubbing block usually help stave that off for longer periods of time. Only use genuine Bosch ignition parts on air-cooled VW's, follow this and you'll be happier. The Pep Boys and Napa replacement parts use aluminum and steel cap n rotor conductors, that don't work well with the old VW ignitions, from my experience. Bosch uses copper and brass. The same with points, if you use points. I like Pertronix units.

Pertronix units: Pertronix ignitions modules retrofitted into a stock VW distributor have been good to me over the years, but a friend of mine, who works on acvw's for a living today, has not had the same good fortune. He sees pertronix ignition module failures on customer cars all of the time, he says.

Spares: On every VW endurance en devour I've been on, we always carry what we lovingly refer to as our 'crash box', or a 'possibles box'. Included is a known good used distributor, fully set up with spark plug wires, numbered, that has been previously run and timmed on THAT engine. When I say set up and timed, I mean with the locking ring clamped in place that stays with the spare distributor. That way, the replacement distributor is truly plug-n-play with nothing more needed than a 13mm socket and extension, no fiddling with the clamp with cold fingers, no setting of timing or adjusting points, or swapping over possible bad ignition parts from old to replacement distributor. Same with a spare carb, run-in and adjusted for THAT engine, drained of it's gas and brought along is cheap insurance.

I hope you get it fixed on the trail, and can self-recover it. Good Luck!
 
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