-
Please be sure to read the rules and adhere to them. Some banned members have complained that they are not spammers. But they spammed us. Some even tried to redirect our members to other forums. Duh. Be smart. Read the rules and adhere to them and we will all get along just fine. Cheers. :beer: Link to the rules: https://www.forumsforums.com/threads/forum-rules-info.2974/
Electric School Bus program faltering, inadequate utility power to charge bus fleets!
- Thread starter Melensdad
- Start date
FrancSevin
Proudly Deplorable
Never Happen!There I fixed it for you
tommu56
Bronze Member
One can only hope.
If Vivek gets his way we might have a chance!
It is also the place for air quality to benefit the most from. And for many people in the city range is really not an issue.
I have a friend with a Prius that Toyota send an E mail to remind him to use the gas engine as the fuel is getting old.
Charging stations are for those traveling through the city, as most urban users would find charging at home the way to go.
While I agree that most urban areas would benefit most from EV air quality improvments. And for those wealthy enough to own private homes and own an EV, and have their own chargers (and I know some).
It seem prudent to point out.
Most urban residents live in apartments or condominiums, have no access to "at home" charging. This applies to even those in near luxury and luxury building.
Those who live in homes could choose to install their own chargers. But of the apartment and condo units that I am familiar with in Chicago, literally none have the ability to "at home" charge. And many of the neighborhoods with small private homes are literally not the markets for EVs as they are of very modest income.
FrancSevin
Proudly Deplorable
I agree 100%.
It seems there is a disconnect between the inner cities and outlying suburbs. I would also suggest there is as big a gap of understanding between Suburbanites and rural dwellers, if not greater.
Bottom line there is no single-phase solution. There is no single product solution. Which is why government mandates will not work. One size does not fit all.
The last decade has brought us acres and acres of Condo's and Apartments because the average young couple cannot afford even the most modest of homes. As you said, few complexes, if any, have provisions for charging stations. And EV does not work for rural applications primarily because the grid is not strong out there. Aside from that reality, distances between homes and/or towns are still long.
Buses might work in the city and Burbs but are inefficient in the country.
Last edited:
DITTO to everything you said.
I live in a school district that is the 2nd largest geographic district in the entire state. Literally the whole southern half of an entire county. We have school bus routes with transfers!!! So I can't imagine our district switching to EV School Buses. But some of the wealthy much smaller geographic suburban school systems can probably both afford the extra cost and the have low enough mileage to use an EV School Bus.
And if you charge it in your garage there isa chance you garage will burn down.
Simple. Once a week you find a charging station and charge. Most decent EV's have enough range to last most if not an entire week.
Apartment dwellers will find them and the way to make it work. Dirty air and more expensive gasoline in urban area's will help with their needs and desires. They can and will find a way. Itis at some point an economic decision. Hertz has some real deals on used EV's
and the cost per mile is second to none.
School buses? the Power company should be able to fix that issue in time. It is lost revenue for them until they do.
Last edited:
In many areas it seems that the power companies may actually not have the capacity to generate enough energy to recharge the fleets of school buses. And in many areas they don't have the transmission capacity to power the chargers, even if they have the generating capacity. So lots of costs up front
FrancSevin
Proudly Deplorable
Kirk, sorry but,
We are a long way from that reality.
It takes 5 times as long to "charge" at a power station vrs liquid fuel. So, to be competitive, every charging "station" would need at least five times the hook ups as a fueling station to compete for the business. I have yet to see anything close. To use an old worn-out industry phrase, the cart is needed before the horse is useful.
Until then a home charger works well for daily commute. Long distances, especially to unfamiliar destinations, Forget-about-it.
For the record, there are five charging stations in St. Peters MO. Some have no more than two chargers. There are at least 50 gasoline/diesel stations with multiple pumps.
We ain't there yet. Not even close.
Literally you’d need a 220v slow charger for every electric bus so they could charge overnight. This option seems reasonable, at $2000 per installed charger, but requires a lot of power from the grid that may not be available)
Or you’d need a half dozen DC fast chargers ($150,000-$200,000 each), and a couple employees to shuttle the buses through a rotation to make sure each was recharged; this option requires a lot of power from the grid (which has been shown to not be available, and requires added labor costs).
Kevlar
Well-known member
I hear people talking about the rural grid not being able to handle the extra workload of charging electric vehicles, and I know that it can’t, but it makes me wonder how many, if any urban centres could handle it as well. The number of vehicles being charged at any given time is almost unimaginable. Would the draw on the grid be double, triple, or more than that, than it is now?
NorthernRedneck
Well-known member
THAT is the elephant in the room. All fine and dandy to have a fairy tale pipe dream of everyone driving electric vehicles. The infrastructure is not there to support private vehicle charging let alone a fleet of school busses. We simply don't have the infrastructure and support for electric. At least up here. Hell, our ONLY highway across Canada is a twisty narrow 2 lane highway with vast areas of wilderness in between small communities 200km apart with little population to support installing the amount of infrastructure required to support electric. Yet we're all supposed to believe that in 11 years time by the 2035 deadline, all of this will be solved when they've had 90+ years to upgrade the system. We currently experience brown outs regularly in the summer. Now add the strain of all electric vehicles charging every night. It's a nice dream but it's a pipe dream.
Caught a blip in the news this morning about an EV double-decker bus in London catching on fire.
They pulled their entire electric fleet out of service.
So, our friggin government wants to put our nations kids in these crematoriums. Grrr.
They pulled their entire electric fleet out of service.
So, our friggin government wants to put our nations kids in these crematoriums. Grrr.
You mean hybrid bus that runs on diesel?
Electric double-decker buses will NOT be withdrawn from service
A huge blast ripped off the back of an Optare Metrodecker 1050 bus travelling from Mitcham to Raynes Park in South West London yesterday, with 15 firefighters scrambled to the scene.
The hybrid vehicle caught fire in North Woolwich, East London, just before 7am today - with onlookers shouting 'what the f***' as they were urged to 'move back, get back'. The bus involved in today's blaze was an Alexander Dennis Enviro400 hybrid that runs on diesel and electricity, with about 900 in use across 78 routes in London.
chowderman
Well-known member
two buses - one EV and one hybrid, two separate fires
"
A second London bus burst into flames this morning - completely destroying it less than 24 hours after an electric double decker exploded on the school run.
The hybrid vehicle caught fire in North Woolwich, East London, just before 7am"
. . . following the 2022 incident at a depot that took out six buses
"
A second London bus burst into flames this morning - completely destroying it less than 24 hours after an electric double decker exploded on the school run.
The hybrid vehicle caught fire in North Woolwich, East London, just before 7am"
. . . following the 2022 incident at a depot that took out six buses
My bad pointed out. There are two buses.
You mean hybrid bus that runs on diesel?
Electric double-decker buses will NOT be withdrawn from service
A huge blast ripped off the back of an Optare Metrodecker 1050 bus travelling from Mitcham to Raynes Park in South West London yesterday, with 15 firefighters scrambled to the scene.www.dailymail.co.uk
The hybrid vehicle caught fire in North Woolwich, East London, just before 7am today - with onlookers shouting 'what the f***' as they were urged to 'move back, get back'. The bus involved in today's blaze was an Alexander Dennis Enviro400 hybrid that runs on diesel and electricity, with about 900 in use across 78 routes in London.
FrancSevin
Proudly Deplorable
And neither of you pointed out the cause of the fire.
Thus, leaving open the question was it the electric system that caused the fire in both busses?
I travel a lot and see diesel trucks burning at least twice a year. it happens.
The issue with electric vehicles is not spontaneous ignition. It is that they are very difficult to extinguish. To that issue, there is no argument. And currently no effective, and practical, solution.
Last edited:
Diesel burns but generally doesn't blow up.
FrancSevin
Proudly Deplorable
There are many reasons, other than the power plant, that a diesel or electric truck/trailer will catch fire. Coming home from Minneapolis a few years ago, I came up on a diesel IC tractor/trailer rigg which had smoke pouring out the back. As I came alongside I could see it was seized brakes. I was in my oneton Dodge,which is lower than the tractor but I managed to signal the driver to pull over. I pulled in front and raced back with a fire extinguisher in hand. "What the fxxk is that about he yelled out the window. Just about halfway back his rear tires on both sides exploded in flames.
Between his and mine we got it out before his load caught fire.
Another 1/2 mile and he would have been a flaming truck.
Electric traction motor would have had nothing to do with it. But you can bet , if so, it would have been the headline.
Ive seen that before, but never involved. Must have lost air pressure to the trailer brakes
We were just talking today about the other white elephant in the room.
With all of the 'free' money flowing to get everyone on board with Electric school buses, the price point analysis is skewed absurdly low. With all of the 'rebates and kickbacks' the electric buses are coming in priced only slightly higher than the diesels, so the cost per route/mile is still at a reasonable price. It will probably stay relatively steady as long as our money is being pushed at it. Or, until replacements are needed. As soon as the funding stops and the bus operators have to start buying these things at full price the cost is going to explode. The cost per route/mile will probably be close to quadruple (admittedly a guess) when having to budget in the costs of new vehicles. The contract bids will in turn quadruple when being submitted to the school districts. The school districts, in search of a way to get the kids to school will need to find the funding for the contracts. Stay tuned for your local tax increase in about 8 years.
With all of the 'free' money flowing to get everyone on board with Electric school buses, the price point analysis is skewed absurdly low. With all of the 'rebates and kickbacks' the electric buses are coming in priced only slightly higher than the diesels, so the cost per route/mile is still at a reasonable price. It will probably stay relatively steady as long as our money is being pushed at it. Or, until replacements are needed. As soon as the funding stops and the bus operators have to start buying these things at full price the cost is going to explode. The cost per route/mile will probably be close to quadruple (admittedly a guess) when having to budget in the costs of new vehicles. The contract bids will in turn quadruple when being submitted to the school districts. The school districts, in search of a way to get the kids to school will need to find the funding for the contracts. Stay tuned for your local tax increase in about 8 years.
Subsidies are paying for it. On a car, the manufacturer is selling them on average $50,000.00 below cost. A charge would cost the equivalent of $17.00 a gallon of gas.