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Covid 19

You better not be crabby next time I see ya Mike! I don't know if there is a correct answer to this.

This is a thorny public policy issue because this virus is so infectious that it creates a conflict between an individual's liberty and their threat to other people's health, and either of those has the potential to destroy the economy (which in turn threatens them both!).

To me, as much as I love liberty and miss life as it was, the threat is sufficient to convince me that I'm better off at home for now.

Anyway, stay safe my friend. This too shall pass, and I'll keep the beers cold.
 
<iframe width="853" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/l_L6AS1Huno" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

watch this little skit from a guy who died from heart disease.

Yeah, I am glad the pres is touting his wall and murder hornets are getting air time in the main stream news.
we need a diversion for sure.
a drugged racing horse.
Indy 500 scandal
Where is the fat korean kid and his toy nukes.....
Get out and plant a garden
build a tree fort.
shut of the tv
go live.
Go for a hike and find a waterfall.
In the arid southwest?, good it will take a while....

There were 48,000,000 cases of the flu last year. couple hundred a day died. per day. there are members here that almost lost their kids from Swine flu.

Life sucks. go live what little you have.
 
Among the unknowns of this novel virus, is they found a reoccurrence of it. Its highly contagious plus it kills or hospitalizes many people. Plus you can get it a 2nd time.
 
You can reopen safely, using data and science and a plan It doesn’t have to be only all closed or all open. NY is on the decline for hospital admissions, and the daily death rate, allowing safe reopening for some of the regions of NY, in about 10 days. Most people are following the guidelines, no big gatherings and cover the pie hole when you are around people and in stores. The hospitals need to have 30% of their capacity available to handle outbreaks. If they don’t then they slow the reopening in that area. Seems reasonable to me, I’d rather have a shot at a hospital bed if I needed it than croak out in the hospital parking lot. NY daily death rate declining, US daily death rate rising. New York was hit earlier.
Six weeks of shut down is only worth it if it doesn’t have to happen again. Countries that haven’t done it correctly had fresh outbreaks and ended up where they were, overwhelming the hospitals.

Link to NY plan
https://www.governor.ny.gov/new-york-forward/regional-guidelines-re-opening-new-york

I had a thought about the people that feel their rights are being trampled on by requiring masks in stores, they also get to tie a handkerchief across their face concealing their identities. In a way we gain a little freedom, and we don’t spread it to people that might not have the superior genes of a snowcat owner. (See, fits into the snowcat section)

Plenty of good life to be living even if we have to take it a little slow and easy.
 
Backyardski said:
You can reopen safely, using data and science and a plan It doesn’t have to be only all closed or all open....

I had a thought about the people that feel their rights are being trampled on by requiring masks in stores, they also get to tie a handkerchief across their face concealing their identities. In a way we gain a little freedom, and we don’t spread it to people that might not have the superior genes of a snowcat owner. (See, fits into the snowcat section)

Plenty of good life to be living even if we have to take it a little slow and easy.
Click to expand...
Generally we are in agreement.

I happen to be one of those 'immunocompromised' people and I take immunosuppressive drugs. However that is MY PROBLEM and not the world's problem. You should not put me at intentional risk, but neither should I stop you from living or making a living.

I also happen to run a local sport fencing club and we are trying to figure out how to safely open the club. There is a lot of sweating, heavy breathing and human contact in olympic style fencing. Pretty much hard to avoid all that. Our state issued guidance. Stay 6' apart. But that is impossible because the sport requires we get closer than 6' away from our opponents. In theory we have to wear a mask over our face under our steel safety face mask. Not sure people can actually breathe and fence with a face mask on under protective mask.​

Each business is different.

Each state will issue different guidelines.

But we do all need to use good science to find our way out of this mess and somehow we all need to find our way out of this.
 
Yeah, I was only joking about that part.
I agree, protect those at higher risk, do what works to get the stuff open and monitor what is happening. Adjust as necessary

Use a 12’ foil?
 
At this point, what we know for sure is it no more deadly than the 2018-2019 Flu with the transmission rate much higher. I say its up to the individual, if you feel you are High risk like Bob or have someone at home thats high risk stay home if thats what you need to do. If you are 40 healthy and losing your business because you're not open and you're not scared, Go back to work. I am 62 and healthy as far as I know. I have been going to plants for job walks and jobs, I have to or they will call someone else and I will lose that account, lose to many accounts and lose my business and way of life. I am not willing to do that. I don't know about you guys but I am not willing to sit at home while everything I have worked for goes to shit. It may very well go to shit anyway if we go into a recession or depression and thats another discussion.
 
Here is the Badger bounce back plan. https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/covid-19/prepare.htm


I am an instructor at a college and run a club as well. the silliness of some of the elements intrigue me.

example:
BBB Plan phase two allows me to train apprentices. In a classroom. with 10 people total. a full normal section contains 13. 9 students + 1 instructo is the rule. we have training rooms that range from 600 sq feet to 1100 square feet. our air exchanges are 3.5 to 4 times per hour. controlled automatically and can go to 3-4 per minute and Have UV light treatment and a filteration system I don't recall at this instant. available.
I asked if I could add a table in the front 180 Square feet. to get a section of 10 learners plus me. The heat I took in body language and tongue lashing I took from my manager about not being safe made my mind explode. we have lecture halls that are 4000 square feet. the room can be small or big. the rule is 10 people regardless.

Here is the beauty part. at work, these 20 - 30 yr old essential trades workers are piled into commingled work spaces. on top of one another.

everything is blurring together. influenza like symptoms are merged into the data of , h1n1, alergies, covid and colds. originally we were safer at home to not over whelm the care system.

we are. it is not.

club.

I went to interact with a small group. we are ordering a grooming machine. they take a long time to build. the dealer is not essential. we are ordering it remote via technology. when a complaint was lodged with the sheriff's dept we were interviewed as to the purpose of our GTG. operators, equipment managers and mechanics were standing in a large circle around a picnic table finalizing the order. ( this is wisconsin, we did not even have a beer ) the situation is not consistent with common sense.
there is no reason to not allow this particular situation. fencing is tough. that is a almost full contact situation. I feel for wrestling, Track, band concerts.

Pick up a paper and look at what we are headed for. there will be no dancing, cheer and pom, trap shooting archery name an event we can participate with this silly distancing idea.

What ever happened to Aids and e- coli from under cooked meat. I actually had a deer tick and I am freaking out more about the fact that is was in its nymph stage and starting to attach itself to me. than I am about a flu strain i believe I had back in january when My co worker had it. 32 years of work. not one sick day. I am starting to wonder if I am some sort of carrier and have been perpetually sick all my life.......
 
I’m convinced that COVID was running thru MN Schools both before and after Christmas break, a highly infectious bug that caused Fever, Cough, and fatigue...sound familiar??? Several schools closed for a week just to break the “flu” cycle. With the amount and pace of travel that people do these days this Virus was likely here soon after the Chinese tried to hide it starting back in Sept/Oct...the main take away is this: China is a communist country and you cannot believe anything that they say; they have 1 goal and that is to be the worlds largest super power...you decide how they get there
 
redsqwrl said:
Here is the Badger bounce back plan. https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/covid-19/prepare.htm


I am an instructor at a college and run a club as well. the silliness of some of the elements intrigue me.

example:
BBB Plan phase two allows me to train apprentices. In a classroom. with 10 people total. a full normal section contains 13. 9 students + 1 instructo is the rule. we have training rooms that range from 600 sq feet to 1100 square feet. our air exchanges are 3.5 to 4 times per hour. controlled automatically and can go to 3-4 per minute and Have UV light treatment and a filteration system I don't recall at this instant. available.
I asked if I could add a table in the front 180 Square feet. to get a section of 10 learners plus me. The heat I took in body language and tongue lashing I took from my manager about not being safe made my mind explode. we have lecture halls that are 4000 square feet. the room can be small or big. the rule is 10 people regardless.

Here is the beauty part. at work, these 20 - 30 yr old essential trades workers are piled into commingled work spaces. on top of one another.

everything is blurring together. influenza like symptoms are merged into the data of , h1n1, alergies, covid and colds. originally we were safer at home to not over whelm the care system.

we are. it is not.

club.

I went to interact with a small group. we are ordering a grooming machine. they take a long time to build. the dealer is not essential. we are ordering it remote via technology. when a complaint was lodged with the sheriff's dept we were interviewed as to the purpose of our GTG. operators, equipment managers and mechanics were standing in a large circle around a picnic table finalizing the order. ( this is wisconsin, we did not even have a beer ) the situation is not consistent with common sense.
there is no reason to not allow this particular situation. fencing is tough. that is a almost full contact situation. I feel for wrestling, Track, band concerts.

Pick up a paper and look at what we are headed for. there will be no dancing, cheer and pom, trap shooting archery name an event we can participate with this silly distancing idea.

What ever happened to Aids and e- coli from under cooked meat. I actually had a deer tick and I am freaking out more about the fact that is was in its nymph stage and starting to attach itself to me. than I am about a flu strain i believe I had back in january when My co worker had it. 32 years of work. not one sick day. I am starting to wonder if I am some sort of carrier and have been perpetually sick all my life.......
Click to expand...

What if you made it into two rooms with a plexiglass squirrel cage in the middle? Less than 10 in a room...
 
Something like 98% of the people who get this are going to survive. It is very infectious, so a LOT of people are going to get it. And a LOT of people are going to die. But the reality is that most of those people will be over 65. Most will be obese, have heart conditions, or Type 2 diabetes, or other underlying conditions.

I'm 59, but I have a triggering underlying condition, not obese, but immunosuppressed. Without the underlying conditions I'd be in the 99.5% survival group. With the underlying conditions my odds drop down to closer to 80%. Still good, but a lot worse. I'm fortunate enough to be able to reasonably self-isolate on a hobby farm property with fairly secure passive income.

Lots of people like me live pay-check-to-pay-check and can't do what I do. Somehow they must be protected. They need some sort of job protection? Or they need some sort of stimulus check every month? If the government would protect JUST THOSE PEOPLE who are in this situation then the rest of you could get on with your lives, the economy would not collapse, the businesses will not close down, the jobs will not be lost. And it would cost A LOT LESS $$$ and be a LOT EASIER for 80% of the human population that is UNDER 65 or has NO UNDERLYING health issue.

And yes, almost all of you will get sick, and yes, 99.5% of you will recover. 50% of you will never even know you were sick. 5-10% of you might get sick enough that you spend a night or two in the hospital but then get released and recover.





SWEDEN is often touted because it remained "open for business" and people think they just did nothing. But that is far from the truth. Sweden did a massive education of their population to try to protect their "at risk" population and people are doing a much better job of following that than we are in other nations. That said, the death rate in Sweden is high, and still going up, especially among the "at risk" population. And SWEDEN is doing some really interesting things to discourage social gatherings. They have spread chicken pool around parks to discourage picnics and lots of other things that people never hear about. So its not all roses and cherry blossoms in Sweden where they stayed "open" as a society.





KickerM said:
I’m convinced that COVID was running thru MN Schools both before and after Christmas break, a highly infectious bug that caused Fever, Cough, and fatigue...sound familiar??? Several schools closed for a week just to break the “flu” cycle. With the amount and pace of travel that people do these days this Virus was likely here soon after the Chinese tried to hide it starting back in Sept/Oct...the main take away is this: China is a communist country and you cannot believe anything that they say; they have 1 goal and that is to be the worlds largest super power...you decide how they get there
Click to expand...

Influenza B was also going around at that time. Similar symptoms.

I can find no evidence of the Wuhan Flu in the USA before Christmas.

Several kids on one of my local high school fencing teams are from Wuhan, China. They went home for Christmas break, they returned. There was no outbreak spread from them in the dorms where the foreign exchange students live, or in the entire school that they attend. FWIW, they were back in the USA on Jan 3.

At that point in time very few people in the USA were even aware of the Coronavirus, which at that time the WHO didn't have a specific name. You will recall it changed from Coronavirus, to Novel Coronavirus as western scientists realized it was a totally new strain, and eventually to Covid-19 as they identified the DNA structure.
 
sorry for lifting just part of the content. I fully understand the intent.
However.

"They need some sort of job protection? Or they need some sort of stimulus check every month? If the government would protect JUST THOSE PEOPLE who are in this situation then the rest of you could get on with your lives, the economy would not collapse, the businesses will not close down, the jobs will not be lost. And it would cost A LOT LESS $$$ and be a LOT EASIER for 80% of the human population"

Grabbed this little sound bite out of the great post above.

Here is fat and lazy ole wisconsin. 60 weeks of unemployment 7-8 years ago maybe 9, put a huge dent in the greying work force plight. trades workers stayed on unemployment well into summer. worked a couple weeks to freshen up the health insurance coffers then hit the unemployment office heading into hunting season.
I have contractors wiggling and getting nervous. the workers are self quarantining. threatening to sue if they are forced to contract this disease.
humans are smart. it is a me first climate. every 28 year old and younger has had health insurance and adequate unemployment compensation. Give this group a possibility of assistance ( insert fear of the what ever flu you want here) and they will exploit it.
I respect fear.
I have feelings

but access to social content customized to personal preference by algorithms based on some bot somewhere is stifling a entire generation. it is a inner city culture where a handout is not a hand up.

give or create an excuse, put it in a life boat, and watch the entitled try to jump in that boat.
I personally would listen to the band play as the ship sinks, then help the band members. Screw the captain, his dumb ass hit the ice.......
 
redsqwrl said:
32 years of work. not one sick day. I am starting to wonder if I am some sort of carrier and have been perpetually sick all my life.......
Click to expand...

Jeez. Brother of a different mother?

We used to get paid a bonus at the end of the year if sick days weren't used. When that stopped I just use them up as "Dave's extended weekend days". Knock on wood.

It must be Seagram's and IPA keeping stuff at bay. Don't let your body be a hospitable location for bugs like that!
 
redsqwrl said:
I have contractors wiggling and getting nervous. the workers are self quarantining. threatening to sue if they are forced to contract this disease.
humans are smart. it is a me first climate. every 28 year old and younger has had health insurance and adequate unemployment compensation. Give this group a possibility of assistance ( insert fear of the what ever flu you want here) and they will exploit it.
I respect fear.
I have feelings

but access to social content customized to personal preference by algorithms based on some bot somewhere is stifling a entire generation. it is a inner city culture where a handout is not a hand up.

give or create an excuse, put it in a life boat, and watch the entitled try to jump in that boat.
I personally would listen to the band play as the ship sinks, then help the band members. Screw the captain, his dumb ass hit the ice.......
Click to expand...

The biggest issue is the additional $600 tacked onto the back of unemployment. With lazy fecks making as much or more than the amount they were before this, there is ZERO incentive to go back to work. And if using the "But, I could be risking my life if I go back" card will keep the money flowing, they are going to play it. Just yesterday three senators were pushing a bill to extend it. (Sens. Michael Bennet and Jack Reed, along with Rep. Don Beyer, released their bill called the "Worker Relief and Security Act.") Why get anything restarted when I can sit on my ass and get paid the same mentality.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive...employment-benefits-stimulus-coronavirus.html

Note the state right at the bottom of that list (who is breaking the doors to get back to work because it isn't as big of a benefit to them).
 
undy said:
As of yesterday, Texas reported it's highest daily death toll and immediately reopens for business.. I wish them well.

From the Houston Chronicle: https://www.houstonchronicle.com/po...st-deaths-in-a-day-from-COVID-19-15238205.php

:th_lmao:

I'm sorry, I probably shouldn't be laughing at this. But it sure seems like an imprudent decision to me.
Click to expand...

So, it's now been 2 weeks since Texas reopened, and according to the Texas Tribune as of last Thursday, they just set a new record one-day increase in both new cases and deaths. https://www.texastribune.org/2020/05/14/coronavirus-updates-texas/

Additionally, these charts from TXDSHS show consistent increases daily since reopening. https://txdshs.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/ed483ecd702b4298ab01e8b9cafc8b83. This isn't data from some "asshole liberal" nor "snowflake", it's from the Texas government webpage. Make of it what you will.
 
When Texas started to open up I don't think that anyone expected that there would NOT be an increase in cases. The lockdown was put in place not to affect the total number of people catching the virus but to change the time frame over which they caught it. It was initiated to prevent the medical facilities from being overwhelmed and thus increasing the death toll needlessly, not to stop people catching it and dying from it altogether. Last time I checked, of the resources available in Texas to cope with the virus, only about 10% were being utilized. That's a long way from being overwhelmed.

As the circumstances have changed, so must the plan change. It's totally unreasonable to expect people to be locked down for several more months with businesses closing right, left and center when you are only using 10% of your capability. High risk people like me should still exercise caution as should nursing homes and other facilities dealing with the elderly and vulnerable, but the rest of the State should probably get on with their lives knowing that they will catch it, be cured or get over it and live a long life.
 
so the media is doing their best to continue to create fear and election year theatrics...
( got your attention)

again I do believe folks are succumbing to the flu. I have feelings and emotions about that as previously stated.

I do however find the letter of understanding and the guidelines OSHA put forth to be in alignment with reality.

https://www.osha.gov/SLTC/covid-19/covid-19-faq.html

the medical industry is guessing their way through this media mess. I really hope they get off it after november.
 
and to end on something positive.

The vintage snow cat clowder is about the coolest group of people you will ever meet. when they put their mind to something they will press on regardless to achieve a goal.
preface:
so this granny factory in norther WI is a corporate deal with a home town crowd. the media got all up in their business about *the flu* and the residence have had to endure mandatory testing and Not being able to play cribbage because a govenor in a sanctuary city said so.....
( just trying to keep your attention)
Body:
the community wanted to bring independance day to the residence because about everything is prohibited on their behalf. the staff may or may not have been concerned about folks turning out for a parade at a small granny factory.
So Clowder folks were asked if they could drag a vintage groomer around the parking lot as part of a mini parade. here is a social media clip of the turn out.

https://www.facebook.com/bayatnuroc/videos/2781574772099266

Humid as the deep south, hot as the sahara. truck and trailer failures ( those are normal ) a ST4, model A spryte and a model 1450 super imp mobilized and represented. If you wonder about the integrity of the community. they showed up in spades and the event was massive.
conclusion:
Look at the faces. ( I should quit here as those images are enough)

Im particularly proud of the 19-21 seconds period of the video. If you have been to the clowder you have watched both a young man and an old machine mature in One year increments. the owner of the rig in the video led the charge and kept the shit show moving to fruition. snow cat people are weird and if the goal is to be the weirdest I am pretty sure we are winning.
:th_lmao:
so in his words press on regardless: https://youtu.be/WDWiMbQsCF0
 
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