• Please be sure to read the rules and adhere to them. Some banned members have complained that they are not spammers. But they spammed us. Some even tried to redirect our members to other forums. Duh. Be smart. Read the rules and adhere to them and we will all get along just fine. Cheers. :beer: Link to the rules: https://www.forumsforums.com/threads/forum-rules-info.2974/

California legalized Marijuana . . . Drug Cartels took over sales/distribution

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Pretty sure this story is accurate.

Pretty sure this is what is happening in EVERY STATE that legalizes marijuana. Yes, there are legal pot sales at pot dispensaries with taxes paid. But the costs to society far exceed the revenues from taxes. And the taxes are too high, which allows for easy exploitation by gangs and cartels. Most people, even in "legal" states get their pot from their friendly neighborhood dealer.

I used to be in the cigarette distribution business. Back in my day, it was common practice for people to come in and buy a literal van load of cheap "Indiana" low-taxed cigarettes and drive them up into Chicago to sell them at a 100% markup and still undercut the prices charged in local stores. We had "apartment sellers" too. Someone, usually a retired guy or retired lady, would come in once a week for a 'standing order' of 30 to 60 to sometimes 90 cartons of cigarettes. (Each carton is 10 packs). So we are talking about granny buying a few cases of cigarettes every week. They drive home and sell them to their neighbors in their apartment building, and this happened EVERY WEEK.

I'm pretty libertarian and don't have an issue with people choosing to throw their lives away on drugs . . . right up until it affects society. We are past that point. And pot legalization is not a solution but an expansion of failed policy.



California Legalized Drugs. Cartels Took It Over.

5073.jpg
Six years after California legalized marijuana, the bodies keep piling up. Drug legalization has failed on every level. The legal drug business is collapsing. Cartels and gang members dominate the business. And open borders allowed them to bring massive numbers of laborers to boost their ranks. Pictured: San Bernardino County Sheriff's deputies and other law enforcement agents cut down cannabis plants during a raid on an illegal cannabis farm in Newberry Springs, in the western Mojave Desert of California on March 29, 2024. (Photo by Robyn Beck/AFP via Getty Images)

Six years after California legalized marijuana, the bodies keep piling up. Earlier this year, six men were murdered in the Mojave Desert. Four of the men had been burned after being shot with rifles. In 2020, seven people were killed at an illegal pot operation in Riverside County.
Violence like this was supposed to disappear after legalization. Legalization advocates argued that making the drug trade legal would end the grip of the cartels. Instead, the legal market has failed, and the cartels are taking over sizable parts of California and the rest of the country.
California's legal drug revenues have fallen consistently, as have those in other legal drug states including Colorado, whose model helped sell the idea that drug money would fix everything.
Despite falling revenues, Colorado legislators brag about $282 million in drug revenue. That number may sound high, but it's a drop in the bucket considering the money that the state and cities like Denver are spending on homelessness, drug overdoses and law enforcement.
While the legal drug business is also collapsing in California, the state is spending a fortune fighting marijuana even as it tries to tax it. Gov. Gavin Newsom paradoxically promised to close the budget deficit with $100 million in drug revenue, meant to be used to fund law enforcement and fight substance abuse. The state seized over $300 million in illegal pot this year and uses satellite imagery and heavily-armed raids to fight untaxed marijuana.
But despite all those efforts, illegal marijuana has won and legal marijuana has lost.
The Los Angeles Times warned two years ago:
"Proposition 64, California's 2016 landmark cannabis initiative, sold voters on the promise a legal market would cripple the drug's outlaw trade, with its associated violence and environmental wreckage.
"Instead, a Los Angeles Times investigation finds, the law triggered a surge in illegal cannabis on a scale California has never before witnessed.
"Rogue cultivation centers like Mount Shasta Vista now engulf rural communities scattered across the state, as far afield as the Mojave Desert, the steep mountains on the North Coast, and the high desert and timberlands of the Sierra Nevada.
"Residents in these places describe living in fear next to heavily armed camps..."
Some of the growers are private citizens, but they aren't likely to remain in business for long.
Cartels and gang members dominate the business. And open borders allowed them to bring massive numbers of laborers to boost their ranks. Not only California, but places as far afield as Maine that have large open areas and limited law enforcement resources, have been overrun by drug operations that more closely resemble parts of Latin America and Asia than the USA.
The coasts, from Southern California up to Oregon, are controlled by Mexican cartels which have expanded so much that they're running short of workers even during the Biden open borders boom. Some have taken to brazenly advertising for illegal workers in Europe.
A local California DA described "Mexican cartel groups coming up to grow pot, and people from Bulgaria, France and Russia." The vast exodus across the border has made it possible for cartels to freely bring in any workers they want, even as drug legalization and open borders effectively ended any real penalties for either illegal migration or marijuana.
Asian organized crime may be less on the radar, but it is no less ruthless or violent.
A few years ago, four Chinese people were murdered at an Oklahoma illegal pot farm. Chinese organized crime had "taken over marijuana in Oklahoma and the United States," the head of the Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs revealed.
Once again, "the mafias set their sights on Oklahoma when the state's voters approved a ballot measure that legalized the cultivation and sale of marijuana for medicinal purposes." Now the Triads run their own compounds "ringed by fences, surveillance cameras and guards with guns and machetes" with 3,000 illegal grows having a value estimated at as high as $44 billion a year.
The Triads are not just in the illegal marijuana business, they traffic in everything from heroin to fentanyl. Legalizing marijuana, however, provided them with a profitable and semi-legal market that gives them a base to expand their efforts trafficking in even more lethal drugs.
Drug legalization has failed on every level. The legal drug business is collapsing. MedMen, which once promised to be the Apple of weed, fell from a $3 billion valuation to a bankruptcy with $411 million in liabilities. Despite the green crosses and online apps, 80% of Californian's pot is still the old-fashioned illegal kind. Politicians may be boasting about hundreds of millions in revenue, but the cartels are making tens of billions and they're taking over entire forests.
The future isn't pot shops, weed apps or MedMen: it's Mexican and Chinese organized crime compounds that are spreading across the West and parts of New England like a plague.
Legalization advocates still argue that if the government lowered the high taxes on legal pot, the business model could turn around again, but even without a single penny in taxes, no amount of legal labor is going to be able to compete with illegal aliens smuggled across the border and forced to work for free by gunmen. Legal businesses can't compete with organized crime.
Drug legalization increased homelessness and drug abuse. It boosted illegal migration and organized crime. It made life worse in every state and city where it's been tried without delivering tangible benefits to anyone (including weed users who still get theirs the old-fashioned way) except for a few politicians who temporarily have a few million more to pass around to special interests, donors and lobbyists.
And all they had to do was hand over half the country to organized crime.
Daniel Greenfield is a Shillman Journalism Fellow at the David Horowitz Freedom Center. This article previously appeared at the Center's Front Page Magazine.
 

Doc

Bottoms Up
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
I suppose this is something we should have seen coming. Cartels have been supplying the masses for decades. Naïve to think they would say okay, game over, it's legal now dang it. Sad part is the cat is out of the bag. I do not think there is a way to put it back in. No easy way at least.
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
I suppose this is something we should have seen coming. Cartels have been supplying the masses for decades. Naïve to think they would say okay, game over, it's legal now dang it. Sad part is the cat is out of the bag. I do not think there is a way to put it back in. No easy way at least.
If they would have legalized it to be sold in specific pre-dosed edibles and specific weight "cigarettes" that would have made it much more of a commercial set up.

Essentially the gubmint say that gummies can come in Low, Medium & Maximum strength, that has to be proven and set at a specified amount. Aspirin comes in low-dose, (81mg), regular dose and maximum strength. Basically treat edibles the same way. Sell them pre-packaged.

Do the same with marijuana cigarettes. Short, regular and long. With a set THC dose in each. Commercially produced instead of sold in bulk. When tobacco was widely consumed there were over 300 cigarette brands in the US. Each a little different but each controlled and regulated. Liquor sales are regulated and taxed. "Proof" is regulated so consumers know that brand A is 'stronger' than brand B, and that wine is lower alcohol than tequila, etc.

As long as the taxes are kept low enough there is no, or at least minimal, cheating. And as long as the tax variations from state to state are kept reasonably close there is minimal "bootlegging" across state lines. Same is true with liquor and beer sales.

The pot industry can look to cigarettes as business model for regulation, distribution, tax payments and retail sales. But I think that will never happen, especially with our open boarders, idiotic legislatures, and the power of drug cartels
 
  • Like
Reactions: Doc

FrancSevin

Proudly Deplorable
GOLD Site Supporter
This is like the days of Al Capone and organized crime families.
From alcohol to guns to marijuana, name any such commodity the gubmit has not tried to control and not f*cked up
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
.... Overall legalization seems a step in the right direction for harm reduction
Just curious, but do you have any actual proof of this?

I see it the opposite way.

Years ago I would have argued to legalize (but I never used) drugs.

Today, looking at California, Oregon, Colorado, Washington and see more harm.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Doc

FrancSevin

Proudly Deplorable
GOLD Site Supporter
Standardizing dosage across labeled products could help discourage the illegal market, if taxes are also kept reasonable. However, cartels are already deeply entrenched with vast resources, so it may be an ongoing challenge without also addressing border security and criminal networks. Overall legalization seems a step in the right direction for harm reduction, though the issues will take time to properly work out.
The Statistics would disagree.

Drug abuse in California is on the rise. So please explain, how did legalization improve this statistic?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Doc

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
It is hard to find data on the bad effects of marijuana, potency, etc. Pretty easy to find overall drug abuse data, crime data related to drugs, etc.

Here is an interview (5 minutes) from N.P.R., that discusses the RE-criminalization of drugs that were DE-criminalized in Oregon. Apparently the experiment of decriminalized drugs in Oregon didn't go so well. But there seem to be some points on BOTH SIDES. Some people dry out in prison, others get out and overdose. And prison is not rehab, so maybe we need more of both?
I dunno.

But I do know that Mexican Cartels need to knocked out of this business.




AILSA CHANG, HOST:
Three years after Oregon became the first state in the country to decriminalize drug use - that's including drugs like methamphetamines and fentanyl - the experiment now appears to be dead. State lawmakers sent a bill last week to Oregon's governor that would once again make it a crime to possess small, personal-use amounts of drugs. What's happening in Oregon could end up reshaping the national debate over how to respond to America's deadly fentanyl crisis. NPR addiction correspondent Brian Mann and Oregon Public Broadcasting reporter Conrad Wilson have been following this and join us now.
CHANG: So, Conrad, I want to start with you because I need you to catch us up here. Go back in time and explain why Oregon voters decided to decriminalize personal drug use in the first place.
WILSON: So the idea was to make addiction something that, in Oregon, would be almost entirely dealt with as a public health issue. So, you know, think clinics with doctors, nurses. And really, the hope was to sever the connection between substance use and the criminal justice system. So when voters passed ballot measure 110 in 2020, there was a lot of hope that Oregon could try something different to keep people out of prisons and jails. Not only did measure 110 decriminalize small amounts of hard drugs. It also dedicated hundreds of millions of dollars in funding to expand treatment. That part isn't going away.
CHANG: Right. OK. Then fast-forward three years to today, and Oregon is abandoning the decriminalization part of this whole experiment. Why the shift?
WILSON: Well, a lot of Oregonians blame Measure 110 for the rise in overdose deaths and a worsening homelessness crisis. But Oregon has long had a shortage of affordable housing, and some researchers say fentanyl is to blame for the spike in overdose deaths. The opioid entered the state's drug supply at roughly the same time voters passed Measure 110. Still, lawmakers went into this legislative session under a lot of pressure to recriminalize drugs. The debate around the bill on both sides was really heated. Jesse Merrithew is a civil rights attorney in Portland. He told lawmakers that decriminalization - it might reduce the street problems, but it isn't going to help people who are struggling with addiction.
JESSE MERRITHEW: The difference now is that instead of leaving people on the street to suffer in public, you're going to leave people in jail cells to suffer. But there, they'll be out of sight and out of mind.
WILSON: But others testified it was the criminal consequences or the threat that helped them stop using drugs. Renee Peffer (ph) now works with law enforcement, helping people struggling with addiction, and says she's been sober for 20 years.
RENEE PEFFER: I had a choice. I could go to prison, or I could go to treatment. I actually spent enough time in jail for my head to clear out, and I'm very grateful that I was given the opportunity to go get treatment instead of going to prison.
WILSON: And that's what got us to last week, where the legislature's Democrats and Republicans overwhelmingly voted to recriminalize drugs.
CHANG: OK. Well, Brian, can you just expand the scope here? Like, why is the backlash against this experiment in Oregon kind of a big deal nationally?
MANN: Yeah. Ailsa, this is being watched really closely all over the country, in part because drug deaths are so grim right now, topping 112,000 fatal overdoses a year. There was hope Oregon's experiment would offer some answers and offer a roadmap also for how to dismantle the so-called war on drugs. That's the set of really tough state and federal crime laws that punish people with addiction, hitting Black and Hispanic families especially hard. Researchers now say the science is clear that when you criminalize addiction, it does help a small number of people, but a lot more are actually likely to die from overdoses. I spoke about this with Dr. Nora Volkow, who heads the National Institute on Drug Abuse. She's the federal government's top expert on addiction.
NORA VOLKOW: The data show much more detrimental effects. It's at least thirteenfold higher risk of dying when these individuals are released from jail or prison, extremely high rates of mortality.
MANN: The reason that happens, experts say, is people get out of custody without getting drug treatment. They often go back to using, and that's when they're really vulnerable to fatal overdoses. Now it appears likely Oregon is going to go back to this policy of sending people to jail for addiction.
CHANG: Well, do you think this shift in Oregon will have an effect on the wider debate over drug decriminalization, then?
MANN: Yeah, that's what I'm hearing from public health experts. They had hoped that success in Oregon would help the rest of the country shift in a new direction. Now that hope is gone. I spoke about this with Kassandra Frederique. She heads the Drug Policy Alliance. That's one of the national groups that backed Measure 110 in Oregon.
KASSANDRA FREDERIQUE: It's a disappointing setback for a hard-won bill. It was not easy to do in Oregon. It won't be easy now, right? We are experiencing a major backlash for drug policy. Yes, this is a setback.
MANN: So what's happening in Oregon is echoing for a lot of smaller experiments around the country trying to shift the addiction response toward health care and treatment, away from police and incarceration. And now, Ailsa, a lot of those smaller projects are facing the same kind of backlash and loss of political support we're seeing in Oregon.
CHANG: But it is worth mentioning that despite recriminalizing small amounts of drug possession, Oregon is still on track to spend a lot more money than it has in the past on addiction care, right, Conrad?
WILSON: That's right. Lawmakers appear committed to funding treatment and really even boosting it. During the past three years, treatment has slowly expanded. But right now many communities in Oregon still don't have enough space in rehab and recovery programs, even for people who want and are desperately seeking addiction care. So in theory, this bill that's been sent to the governor gives people a choice between criminalization and drug treatment, but experts say that kind of health care system just doesn't exist yet. They think a lot of these very ill people will simply wind up in jail.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Doc
Top