The "hunt" is half the fun.
For some it becomes an addition..... fair warning lol..
For some it becomes an addition..... fair warning lol..
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Best bang for a buck snow cat. WTB
- Thread starter robydean
- Start date
Here are some things to consider, just some thoughts:
- Machine weight, what are you going to tow this machine with, and on what, and how far. Some machines are way heavy and a pain to tow. I know one Forum member who mostly brings his smaller cat to the Jamborees because it is much easier to tow than his larger one.
- What terrain do you want to cover, some machines are incredible climbers but very slow, some are "fast" but won't climb in deep powder as well. Some are low and drag their bellies making it hard in some deep soft snow conditions. Some have very poor side hill ability, my Frandee slides sideways very easily because it is basically sitting on dozens of 32 inch long one inch wide steel skis (steel faced wood grousers) that can slide sideways on sidehills depending on conditions. However it will spin donuts/cookies very well because of this feature.
- Are you going on groomed roads, etc? If not a blade may be necessary. That means more $$$$.
- How much maintenance are you wanting/willing to do, some machines require a lot.
- What elevation are you going to be running at? My naturally aspirated cat is gasping for air when I get up in the 10K to 12K altitude. You may want something with a turbo to help with this. It probably is not necessary, but sure helps.
- It might be worth considering upping your $20K limit and getting something more reliable than say a $15K machine. Money spent up front may pay off later.
I completely agree with GMoose's comments. A line that I frequently use is "The cheapest snowcat is rarely the best value". Buy a "fixer-upper" will end up costing a lot more than a machine in good shape. Snowcat parts can add up fast!
I had to Google Asotin, WA. That looks like a nice place....
Snowcats tend to be short on comfort. The vast majority of my experience is with rubber belted Tuckers. At present my snowcat buddy and I also have a DMC 1450, a Thiokol 1200C wide track and a very old 4VL. That's in addition to three Tuckers. The Thiokol family machines (Thiokol/DMC/LMC) tend to sell for less money than Tuckers. They are two-track, brake steer machines. The Imp/Super Imp/1450 models are fairly compact, and on a packed un groomed trail with washboards, you get a very definite pitching motion... which gets old. The four track Tuckers on the other hand are much smoother. The Tucker steering wheel is just intuitive, whereas the brake steer system with levers just seems like you're always making small corrections, and it's not as smooth.
One day last winter we took the Tucker 1544 and the DMC 1450 out for some testing. We took turns driving both machines and then compared impressions over burgers later. Our 1450 has non-factory extended width tracks which give it remarkable flotation, and it performed very well. But we were in agreement we preferred the Tucker. I'm 6'4" and Scott is about 5'10, but we both preferred the larger Tucker cab. We also preferred the four track setup and the Tucker steering system. Both machines are equipped with automatic transmissions.
You mentioned carrying four people and I'm assuming that includes the driver. With that assumption, I very definitely prefer four door cab models. I say that because it's like a crew cab pickup. It's one big area inside, everybody faces forward and has their own door. It's more congenial and a greater "shared experience" for everyone. There is no such thing as a four door Imp/Super Imp/1450, at least not from the factory. The full cab models have the driver and passenger facing forward and then the folks in back sit on benches facing each other. Some of the cabs are fully open and some have two compartments, and that really segregates everyone. So sticking with the Thiokol family, that leaves four door Sprytes/1200 models and the LMC 1500 in the four door (I think some machines came with three doors but all seats are forward facing) configuration.
I've owned two, three and four door Tuckers and my favorite is the four door. The three door Tuckers can carry more people, but the rear area is somewhat separated by what I call a bulkhead, and the facing bench seats in the rear are close enough that tall people will be knocking knees. For me, it's just... meh. If you have children, and if they want to bring friends, that that changes things.
In general terms, I am a strong proponent of having an automatic transmission in a snowcat. Manuals certainly work, and they work well, but the automatic is a definite improvement in ease of operation.
I had to Google Asotin, WA. That looks like a nice place....
Snowcats tend to be short on comfort. The vast majority of my experience is with rubber belted Tuckers. At present my snowcat buddy and I also have a DMC 1450, a Thiokol 1200C wide track and a very old 4VL. That's in addition to three Tuckers. The Thiokol family machines (Thiokol/DMC/LMC) tend to sell for less money than Tuckers. They are two-track, brake steer machines. The Imp/Super Imp/1450 models are fairly compact, and on a packed un groomed trail with washboards, you get a very definite pitching motion... which gets old. The four track Tuckers on the other hand are much smoother. The Tucker steering wheel is just intuitive, whereas the brake steer system with levers just seems like you're always making small corrections, and it's not as smooth.
One day last winter we took the Tucker 1544 and the DMC 1450 out for some testing. We took turns driving both machines and then compared impressions over burgers later. Our 1450 has non-factory extended width tracks which give it remarkable flotation, and it performed very well. But we were in agreement we preferred the Tucker. I'm 6'4" and Scott is about 5'10, but we both preferred the larger Tucker cab. We also preferred the four track setup and the Tucker steering system. Both machines are equipped with automatic transmissions.
You mentioned carrying four people and I'm assuming that includes the driver. With that assumption, I very definitely prefer four door cab models. I say that because it's like a crew cab pickup. It's one big area inside, everybody faces forward and has their own door. It's more congenial and a greater "shared experience" for everyone. There is no such thing as a four door Imp/Super Imp/1450, at least not from the factory. The full cab models have the driver and passenger facing forward and then the folks in back sit on benches facing each other. Some of the cabs are fully open and some have two compartments, and that really segregates everyone. So sticking with the Thiokol family, that leaves four door Sprytes/1200 models and the LMC 1500 in the four door (I think some machines came with three doors but all seats are forward facing) configuration.
I've owned two, three and four door Tuckers and my favorite is the four door. The three door Tuckers can carry more people, but the rear area is somewhat separated by what I call a bulkhead, and the facing bench seats in the rear are close enough that tall people will be knocking knees. For me, it's just... meh. If you have children, and if they want to bring friends, that that changes things.
In general terms, I am a strong proponent of having an automatic transmission in a snowcat. Manuals certainly work, and they work well, but the automatic is a definite improvement in ease of operation.
Excellent summation! I agree with the "crew cab" philosophy - it's a very nice configuration. I have the 1500 with the 3-door crew cab you mentioned, and it is a very civil way to travel, for both adults and kids.
GMoose, Yes that is something I have considered and appreciate you saying. Fortunately, I live across the river from Idaho, my true home state and there are many trails to roam.
Loneoutrider
Member
For What It’s Worth!
You will want to factor into your budget the dimensions and weight of the cat you buy! Not picking on Tuckers, just using as example. They weigh in the 10,000 pound range and may need up to a 20’ plus trailer. If you don’t have trailer and towing vehicle (4x4 probably) for that much cat, add $$$$ to you budget.
Also you want to consider parking space at home and where you are going to play. The smaller cats like the Snow Trac let you use somewhat smaller tow unit and trailer. My ST4B Snow Trac weighs 3800lbs and my Thiokol 4T8N weighs 4800 lbs so I can get by with 16’ trailer
You will want to factor into your budget the dimensions and weight of the cat you buy! Not picking on Tuckers, just using as example. They weigh in the 10,000 pound range and may need up to a 20’ plus trailer. If you don’t have trailer and towing vehicle (4x4 probably) for that much cat, add $$$$ to you budget.
Also you want to consider parking space at home and where you are going to play. The smaller cats like the Snow Trac let you use somewhat smaller tow unit and trailer. My ST4B Snow Trac weighs 3800lbs and my Thiokol 4T8N weighs 4800 lbs so I can get by with 16’ trailer
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The Cummins V378 was available both normally aspirated and turbo charged. The turbocharged version would be a VT-378. Cummins replaced this engine, which is a V-6 configuration, with the almost legendary 6BT. But the V378 series has, from what I understand, a poor reputation. Parts can be hard to find, and expensive when you're fortunate enough to find them.
Generally, Tuckers equipped with Diesel engines are used as groomers. From personal experience, the phrase "rode hard, put away wet", is fair. They tend to get a lot of hard hours, and maintenance and repair practices can be hit or miss.
As an FYI, here's a link to a similar machine (1983 Tucker 1642 with the V378 and Allison AT545) for sale back in 2015:
www.forumsforums.com
In post seven they list an asking price of $8,500. The engine had also been rebuilt.
Another downside to the Diesel is the weight of that engine. My guess is roughly twice that of the Chrysler 318 Industrial which was the base engine and is more commonly found.
Generally, Tuckers equipped with Diesel engines are used as groomers. From personal experience, the phrase "rode hard, put away wet", is fair. They tend to get a lot of hard hours, and maintenance and repair practices can be hit or miss.
As an FYI, here's a link to a similar machine (1983 Tucker 1642 with the V378 and Allison AT545) for sale back in 2015:
Tucker Sno-Cat 1642 for sale
Snowmobile club selling our 'spare' groomer. It's a 1983 cummins powered Tucker 1643. Engine runs perfect, transmission and drive train excellent, tracks good. Sheet metal and interior needs some TLC. Located in Stowe, Vt. We are motivated to sell but not sure of an asking price...
In post seven they list an asking price of $8,500. The engine had also been rebuilt.
Another downside to the Diesel is the weight of that engine. My guess is roughly twice that of the Chrysler 318 Industrial which was the base engine and is more commonly found.
After looking into the motor I also found it not to be a good choice. It seems there were a lot of problems with that engine. Thanks for confirming the bad news. The search continues.The Cummins V378 was available both normally aspirated and turbo charged. The turbocharged version would be a VT-378. Cummins replaced this engine, which is a V-6 configuration, with the almost legendary 6BT. But the V378 series has, from what I understand, a poor reputation. Parts can be hard to find, and expensive when you're fortunate enough to find them.
Generally, Tuckers equipped with Diesel engines are used as groomers. From personal experience, the phrase "rode hard, put away wet", is fair. They tend to get a lot of hard hours, and maintenance and repair practices can be hit or miss.
As an FYI, here's a link to a similar machine (1983 Tucker 1642 with the V378 and Allison AT545) for sale back in 2015:
Tucker Sno-Cat 1642 for sale
Snowmobile club selling our 'spare' groomer. It's a 1983 cummins powered Tucker 1643. Engine runs perfect, transmission and drive train excellent, tracks good. Sheet metal and interior needs some TLC. Located in Stowe, Vt. We are motivated to sell but not sure of an asking price...
In post seven they list an asking price of $8,500. The engine had also been rebuilt.
Another downside to the Diesel is the weight of that engine. My guess is roughly twice that of the Chrysler 318 Industrial which was the base engine and is more commonly found.
mikemikelle
Active member
Mr. Robydean,
I cant believe this herd of cat owners. Not one Thiokol Imp recommendation....
Facts
-Easiest to find
-Most economical to purchase
-Most economical to own
-Lightest and smallest to tow
-The full body seats 6 people, with 3 access doors (emergency escapes). Tons of room for the size (dogs, cap gear, coolers, friends, plus great for mounting racks, ski boxes, or pulling a little ski trailer)
-You'll see 20 "for sale" for every Christi out there ( I've had one for 5 years, attended several functions, and still have not seen a Krusti)
-Hardly any proprietary parts, easy to find parts and fix. If you find one with newer rubber belts/tracks, they'll last decades
-"On snow" performance, especially a wide track, is great for the size/cost
(I went up the steepest slope at McCall's Little Ski Hill, and the only others to do so were 500 series pontoon Tuckers)
Where do they lack- comfort at high speed (but at least they have a high speed) and "in cab" noise (mind you, all brands are are noisy). They are rudimentary, simple, and dependable "on snow" transportation. With a pair of headset intercoms and a comfy seat, they are great! Buy a newer (70's to 80's) for the better grouzer style, and better yet, step up to a Super Imp for the longer tracks and larger engine. Another bonus, since they are small and underpowered, they typically were not used for much more than "tower access", which means low hours and less wear. Many Tuckers pulled heavy groomers for years, their thin wall steel tube frames suffer from rust and fatigue. The Imp has a steel monocoque chassis, no hidden areas for rust, and any backyard mechanic could weld it up if it needed it.
If you want to run it for a purpose, get a Thiokol Imp, Super Imp or big brother Sprite. If you want a cool project, good looks, and bragging rights at the show and shine, get a Tucker. If you want to be left out when the snow is too soft to go up a moderate hill, get a Snowtrac. If you want to be the butt of most of the snow cat community's jokes, get a Kristi. An Imp will never make you popular, but nobody who "knows cats" will argue with what I have just described. Only facts!!
I live in Western Washington currently, but am in the process of moving to central WA. Forrest service doesn't allow much access, but there are thousands of high elev. winter wheat fields around your neck of the woods, and all sorts of private. You'll never run out of areas to explore....and you're also right next to Spudaho!
Nobody looks at an Imp at a show and shine, and they only see your rooster tail while behind. No wonder the Thiokol Imp was not mentioned.....
Sir Eskelson knows!!
I cant believe this herd of cat owners. Not one Thiokol Imp recommendation....
Facts
-Easiest to find
-Most economical to purchase
-Most economical to own
-Lightest and smallest to tow
-The full body seats 6 people, with 3 access doors (emergency escapes). Tons of room for the size (dogs, cap gear, coolers, friends, plus great for mounting racks, ski boxes, or pulling a little ski trailer)
-You'll see 20 "for sale" for every Christi out there ( I've had one for 5 years, attended several functions, and still have not seen a Krusti)
-Hardly any proprietary parts, easy to find parts and fix. If you find one with newer rubber belts/tracks, they'll last decades
-"On snow" performance, especially a wide track, is great for the size/cost
(I went up the steepest slope at McCall's Little Ski Hill, and the only others to do so were 500 series pontoon Tuckers)
Where do they lack- comfort at high speed (but at least they have a high speed) and "in cab" noise (mind you, all brands are are noisy). They are rudimentary, simple, and dependable "on snow" transportation. With a pair of headset intercoms and a comfy seat, they are great! Buy a newer (70's to 80's) for the better grouzer style, and better yet, step up to a Super Imp for the longer tracks and larger engine. Another bonus, since they are small and underpowered, they typically were not used for much more than "tower access", which means low hours and less wear. Many Tuckers pulled heavy groomers for years, their thin wall steel tube frames suffer from rust and fatigue. The Imp has a steel monocoque chassis, no hidden areas for rust, and any backyard mechanic could weld it up if it needed it.
If you want to run it for a purpose, get a Thiokol Imp, Super Imp or big brother Sprite. If you want a cool project, good looks, and bragging rights at the show and shine, get a Tucker. If you want to be left out when the snow is too soft to go up a moderate hill, get a Snowtrac. If you want to be the butt of most of the snow cat community's jokes, get a Kristi. An Imp will never make you popular, but nobody who "knows cats" will argue with what I have just described. Only facts!!
I live in Western Washington currently, but am in the process of moving to central WA. Forrest service doesn't allow much access, but there are thousands of high elev. winter wheat fields around your neck of the woods, and all sorts of private. You'll never run out of areas to explore....and you're also right next to Spudaho!
Nobody looks at an Imp at a show and shine, and they only see your rooster tail while behind. No wonder the Thiokol Imp was not mentioned.....
Sir Eskelson knows!!
Big time addictionThe "hunt" is half the fun.
For some it becomes an addition..... fair warning lol..