• Please be sure to read the rules and adhere to them. Some banned members have complained that they are not spammers. But they spammed us. Some even tried to redirect our members to other forums. Duh. Be smart. Read the rules and adhere to them and we will all get along just fine. Cheers. :beer: Link to the rules: https://www.forumsforums.com/threads/forum-rules-info.2974/

Alls I can do is shake my head!!

bczoom said:
Although the "west coast" has embraced many things (be it public or private), I don't want to have to see nor have to explain the "extremes" to my kids at their ages.
I agree with you 100% there. My kids are 4 and 9 and I don't want them to see what you are describing also. I've got to lower the boom on you though bc, what is it with you guys and the "west coast" crap? Are you referring to San Fran or L.A.? What about N.Y. and D.C.? New York probably has 10 times the number of deviates that San Francisco or L.A. has. And that type of stuff doesn't go on in Chicago, Detroit, Atlanta, etc.? Give me a break! Don't make a generalization about the types of people you dislike and assign them to one geographical area! :soapbox:
There, now where is my wet nurse? :1062:
Bonehead
 
Bonehead,

Nothing against you.

Agreed, the coasts are where the extremes seem to occur. I won't take my kids to any metropolis/location where the "extremes" are open to the public.

I can't back this up statistically (I don't want to look for it) but I believe that many concur that California is the breeding ground for most of the liberal things that have taken place recently. Heck, (again, not looking it up) but if I recall, your Circuit Court is turned over almost 50% of the time.
 
Aww man, to think I have to fly out to San Franny Tuesday! :pat: I sure ain't gonna look for any public displays of affection by no pansies either! Hey, do you get any bonus points for picking off the dumbasses on motorcycles who try to crowd you out of your own lane on the highway? I bet I could kill a hundred or so and never violate a single law or leave my lane to do so! :17875:
 
Dargo said:
Aww man, to think I have to fly out to San Franny Tuesday! :pat: I sure ain't gonna look for any public displays of affection by no pansies either! Hey, do you get any bonus points for picking off the dumbasses on motorcycles who try to crowd you out of your own lane on the highway? I bet I could kill a hundred or so and never violate a single law or leave my lane to do so! :17875:
Dargo,

I'll bump your rep points for every good story you come back with. :thumb:
 
Dargo said:
Aww man, to think I have to fly out to San Franny Tuesday! :pat: I sure ain't gonna look for any public displays of affection by no pansies either! Hey, do you get any bonus points for picking off the dumbasses on motorcycles who try to crowd you out of your own lane on the highway? I bet I could kill a hundred or so and never violate a single law or leave my lane to do so! :17875:
I bet you come home a changed man! :gay:
Bonehead
 
bczoom said:
There's where you screwed up (no pun intended). Don't try the conversion process... just enjoy the ride (pun intended).

Bonehead,

I don't care what goes on "behind closed doors". In public, and I don't care who you are, I do expect (or at least appreciate) people to act in such a fashion that could/would/should be acceptable in a public venue.

When in public, I normally have my kids with me. They're 4 & 8.

Society has dictated what is acceptable in a public area. Things are changing but in general, I believe "most" of us don't want to see (nor want our kids to see) things at their extremes. Although the "west coast" has embraced many things (be it public or private), I don't want to have to see nor have to explain the "extremes" to my kids at their ages.

To my knowledge, society has not accepted these "extremes" which may constitute many fashions. Some people just need to "get a room"...

Now, I don't want you all to come flocking to Ontario - and if you do, you're welcome to come stay with us - but we have a law that was enacted about 8 years ago that allows women to be topless in public places! :5boobs:That's right, beaches, streets, whatever! The reason you shouldn't flock here is because it's a seldom utilized law. After the initial novelty wore off it seemed to be just strippers taking advantage of the sun and attracting some more clients!
 
Got this in an email today and thought that it deserved to be shared. Agree or disagree, I believe that it does have merit..... Junk.. stoking the flames of freedom....



One of the great fallacies in modern lore is that liberalism stands for nothing and liberals have no core beliefs. The right wing, from the Pope to the President, has impugned the left by unfairly portraying it as a valueless movement mired in moral relativism.

This could not be further from the truth. Indeed, the left is the backbone of freedom, the defender of personal liberty, the guarantor of free speech and religious worship and the nurturer of democratic movements across the globe. Far from believing in nothing, wherever liberal democratic values prevail, civilizations flourish and emancipated people thrive.

The cornerstone of liberalism is the idea that each person is endowed with the precious gift of liberty and can freely choose his or her own path -- for better or worse. We believe this is crucial to greater enlightenment, personal growth, and ultimate fulfillment. It also offers the best opportunity for people to realize their dreams and achieve their spiritual promise.

Liberalism encourages exploration and education. It reveres science and celebrates the inquisitive mind. Indeed, liberal values are often superior to those held on the right, because they are tenaciously subjected to rigorous examination. Beliefs that are questioned and still prevail are the ones that stand the test of time. Far from moral relativism, liberalism searches for the ultimate value in which to build a moral foundation: truth.

Right wing movements across the globe often seem uninterested in such truth if it contradicts their obdurate belief systems. Reality averse, they are woefully unable to adjust to new understandings, burgeoning ideas and cultural awakenings.

Liberals believe in the power of reason, while conservatives are often just plain reactionary. This is why the GOP is the party of the "southern strategy" and anti-gay subterfuge. Republican power is directly related to fertilizing fear and fomenting fanaticism.

Modern conservatives are often discomfited by the complexities of life and demand answers to the world's many unanswerable questions. They arrogantly and disingenuously claim to have absolute truth, while liberalism boldly proclaims that it does not have such ubiquitous powers of understanding. Liberalism is for those who are unafraid to fully embrace the magnificent journey of life and tackle the great mysteries of our time.

Modern conservatives will claim that liberals are sacrilegious for holding such beliefs. To the contrary, liberals are often extraordinarily spiritual people. However, they diverge with conservatives in that they believe the strongest faith is one that is subject to healthy skepticism and painstaking examination. In encouraging people to explore all faiths -- free of guilt, shame, coercion or fear -- liberalism also offers people the greatest number of spiritual options.

Conservatives often attack gay rights because they know it is the mark of a free society that abhors authoritarian control. If a country treats gay people with dignity and respect and offers them equality, it signals that the country bases its decisions on sound education, rationalism and science. This inevitably leads towards success in all spheres of life.

Countries that ostracize and penalize homosexuals tend to be superstitious, rigid and anti-intellectual. This almost uniformly leads to poverty, war, oppression and ultimately tyranny.

A cynic might argue that the United States is not as gay friendly as other countries, yet, it is the richest country in the world. True, but nearly all of America's cities and states that are centers of profit and creativity offer increased levels of acceptance for homosexuals. States most hostile to gay people are relatively backwards, with lower levels of education and income.

In essence, gay rights is the canary in the coal mine for freedom and prosperity. Unfortunately, the bird is hacking, signaling a period of increased oppression and a dangerous erosion of freedom. It is up to us to rescue this nation from the hazardous, retrograde path it is now on.

It is time we proudly stand up for what we believe in. If we don't defend our values, our opponents will define them. Progressive does not mean passive. Our compassion does not mean that we lack passion. Our respect for other beliefs does not signify that we don't hold strong beliefs of our own that we are willing to fight for. Indeed, our power comes from out ability to adjust to reality. We are secure in our values, yet humble enough to adapt if our viewpoints are proven obsolete. Wherever liberal democracy takes root, a strong and proud record of economic, moral, social and political achievement follows.

In this midterm election year, I hope that you will be inspired to defend your values and work to create a better society where all people can live in dignified harmony and achieve the pinnacle of their social, spiritual and human potential. In other words, create a more liberal world.
 
Something tells me there is an argue, er um, discussion brewing.:whistle: By the way, I heard today that Portland, Oregon has been determined to be the most vegetarian-friendly state followed by Washington. I love my meat but that there makes me proud.
Bone
 
BoneheadNW said:
Something tells me there is an argue, er um, discussion brewing.:whistle:
For now, I'm going to leave it alone.

BoneheadNW said:
By the way, I heard today that Portland, Oregon has been determined to be the most vegetarian-friendly state followed by Washington. I love my meat but that there makes me proud.
Bone
BH,

When did Portland Oregon become a state? DOH

No idea where PA stands but with the exception of potatos, veggies on our (mine and my kids) plates are condiments.... and that makes us proud.
 
BoneheadNW said:
Something tells me there is an argue, er um, discussion brewing.:whistle: By the way, I heard today that Portland, Oregon has been determined to be the most vegetarian-friendly state followed by Washington. I love my meat but that there makes me proud.
Bone

That reminds me of a vegetarian girlfriend I once had. She didn't eat meat, but she sure liked to bone!:yum:

I guess that Junk's posting is uncontested and we'll take it as true.
 
BoneheadNW said:
Something tells me there is an argue, er um, discussion brewing.:whistle: By the way, I heard today that Portland, Oregon has been determined to be the most vegetarian-friendly state followed by Washington. I love my meat but that there makes me proud.
Bone


Bone,
If we werent supposed to eat animals, why do they taste so good?? You guys can keep the veggies..:wave:
 
HGM said:
Bone,
If we werent supposed to eat animals, why do they taste so good?? You guys can keep the veggies..:wave:
Hey, I ain't no vegetarian! Give me a nice juicy medium-rare to rare steak anytime! Vegies are ok, but give up my meat? No way!
Bonehead
 
BoneheadNW said:
I read through this thread rather quickly and possibly missed some things but I am a bit confused as to the problem here. What do you care what goes on behind closed door between consenting adults? Let's substitute "homosexual" for "individual who likes having sex with extremely obese people". I find that to be less than appealing to visualize but I don't care what they do, as long as I don't have to see it and it is between consenting adults. Is it unnatural? One could make the argument that extremely obese people go against the "survival of the fittest" argument, but I guess if there are some people that like that sort of thing, so be it.
Bonehead

I don't think the issue is what people do behind closed doors - it might have been at one time with the anti-sodomy laws and whatnot but in many states that time was gone a long time ago. The way I see it the problem has gone way beyond the whole "who cares what we do behind closed doors" argument because the very politics of the country are being affected by sexual politics. I honestly don't consider myself an extreme right winger and I am not religious at all but some of this stuff just strikes me as totally off the wall.

Here is an example - this is a must read if you don't think there are some seriously screwed up people out there teaching our kids - and it is coming from my illustrious home state of Massachusetts:

http://www.article8.org/docs/news_events/glsen_043005/black_book/black_book_inside.htm

https://m31/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?U...glsen_043005/black_book/black_book_inside.htm:puke1:
 
Junkman said:
Got this in an email today and thought that it deserved to be shared. Agree or disagree, I believe that it does have merit..... Junk.. stoking the flames of freedom....



One of the great fallacies in modern lore is that liberalism stands for nothing and liberals have no core beliefs. The right wing, from the Pope to the President, has impugned the left by unfairly portraying it as a valueless movement mired in moral relativism.

This could not be further from the truth. Indeed, the left is the backbone of freedom, the defender of personal liberty, the guarantor of free speech and religious worship and the nurturer of democratic movements across the globe. Far from believing in nothing, wherever liberal democratic values prevail, civilizations flourish and emancipated people thrive.

The cornerstone of liberalism is the idea that each person is endowed with the precious gift of liberty and can freely choose his or her own path -- for better or worse. We believe this is crucial to greater enlightenment, personal growth, and ultimate fulfillment. It also offers the best opportunity for people to realize their dreams and achieve their spiritual promise.

Liberalism encourages exploration and education. It reveres science and celebrates the inquisitive mind. Indeed, liberal values are often superior to those held on the right, because they are tenaciously subjected to rigorous examination. Beliefs that are questioned and still prevail are the ones that stand the test of time. Far from moral relativism, liberalism searches for the ultimate value in which to build a moral foundation: truth.

Right wing movements across the globe often seem uninterested in such truth if it contradicts their obdurate belief systems. Reality averse, they are woefully unable to adjust to new understandings, burgeoning ideas and cultural awakenings.

Liberals believe in the power of reason, while conservatives are often just plain reactionary. This is why the GOP is the party of the "southern strategy" and anti-gay subterfuge. Republican power is directly related to fertilizing fear and fomenting fanaticism.

Modern conservatives are often discomfited by the complexities of life and demand answers to the world's many unanswerable questions. They arrogantly and disingenuously claim to have absolute truth, while liberalism boldly proclaims that it does not have such ubiquitous powers of understanding. Liberalism is for those who are unafraid to fully embrace the magnificent journey of life and tackle the great mysteries of our time.

Modern conservatives will claim that liberals are sacrilegious for holding such beliefs. To the contrary, liberals are often extraordinarily spiritual people. However, they diverge with conservatives in that they believe the strongest faith is one that is subject to healthy skepticism and painstaking examination. In encouraging people to explore all faiths -- free of guilt, shame, coercion or fear -- liberalism also offers people the greatest number of spiritual options.

Conservatives often attack gay rights because they know it is the mark of a free society that abhors authoritarian control. If a country treats gay people with dignity and respect and offers them equality, it signals that the country bases its decisions on sound education, rationalism and science. This inevitably leads towards success in all spheres of life.

Countries that ostracize and penalize homosexuals tend to be superstitious, rigid and anti-intellectual. This almost uniformly leads to poverty, war, oppression and ultimately tyranny.

A cynic might argue that the United States is not as gay friendly as other countries, yet, it is the richest country in the world. True, but nearly all of America's cities and states that are centers of profit and creativity offer increased levels of acceptance for homosexuals. States most hostile to gay people are relatively backwards, with lower levels of education and income.

In essence, gay rights is the canary in the coal mine for freedom and prosperity. Unfortunately, the bird is hacking, signaling a period of increased oppression and a dangerous erosion of freedom. It is up to us to rescue this nation from the hazardous, retrograde path it is now on.

It is time we proudly stand up for what we believe in. If we don't defend our values, our opponents will define them. Progressive does not mean passive. Our compassion does not mean that we lack passion. Our respect for other beliefs does not signify that we don't hold strong beliefs of our own that we are willing to fight for. Indeed, our power comes from out ability to adjust to reality. We are secure in our values, yet humble enough to adapt if our viewpoints are proven obsolete. Wherever liberal democracy takes root, a strong and proud record of economic, moral, social and political achievement follows.

In this midterm election year, I hope that you will be inspired to defend your values and work to create a better society where all people can live in dignified harmony and achieve the pinnacle of their social, spiritual and human potential. In other words, create a more liberal world.


That's a nice try but I don't believe it. So called liberals and Left Wingers also include people of the likes of Stalin and Pol Pot who were among the biggest murderers the world has ever known. And they weren't especially kind to homosexuals either.

So where would we be if there were NO homosexuals? Would the world be an unfree place where nobody lived in harmony? The person who wrote the above would try to make you believe that if not for homosexuals we would all be living under some sort of tyrannical right wing regime where nobody could achieve their "social, spiritual, and human potential".

Up until maybe 60 years or so ago homosexuals were pretty well discriminated against in this country - is the writer trying to say that the US was a backwards ass country that embraced " authoritarian control" before the gay rights movement freed us to reach our full potential?

This paragraph is excellent:
Liberalism encourages exploration and education. It reveres science and celebrates the inquisitive mind. Indeed, liberal values are often superior to those held on the right, because they are tenaciously subjected to rigorous examination. Beliefs that are questioned and still prevail are the ones that stand the test of time. Far from moral relativism, liberalism searches for the ultimate value in which to build a moral foundation: truth.

so maybe that explains all of the political correctness where you are not allowed to question the prevailing orthodoxy of gay rights, womens rights, ethnic preferences, etc? When Larry Summers - the EX president of Harvard University had the balls to suggest that maybe there are some innate reasons why women don't do as well in science as men do and was pretty much forced out of office for saying so - was that a "celebration of the inquisitive mind"? Or maybe his comments were subjected to "rigourous examination" ? It doesnt' sound like all of the liberal professors at Harvard were really searching for a moral foundation when they went of the deep end asking for his resignation. The truth is that much research supports the fact that male and female brains work differently for better or for worse.


The whole diatribe you posted is really no better than somebody on the right wing writing up a defense of conservatism that says all liberals are child molesters because they have no morals, homosexuality inevitably leads to to pedophilia, women should all stay home and work in the kitchen, liberals want all of our money to go to the goverment and spend it on welfare programs, blah blah blah.

The truth lies somewhere in between. If you really want to debunk each and every point made in the email I am sure I can come up with specific examples.


If Liberalism is the defender of all the things they claim to be in that letter maybe they ought to get back to doing some of that instead of defending off the wall stuff like gay marriage, illegal immigration, constant tax increases, fighting any religious displays ( if they are Islamic), etc., feel good bs in schools instead of the ABC's, etc.
 
jdwilson44 said:
women should all stay home and work in the kitchen,


I wholeheartedly support this proposition. Now, will you help me to convince my wife, so I can get a good meal once in a while???????? :yum: :yum: :yum: :yum:
 
Junkman said:
I wholeheartedly support this proposition. Now, will you help me to convince my wife, so I can get a good meal once in a while???????? :yum: :yum: :yum: :yum:

Junkman,
are the TV dinners getting old?:yum:
 
It is a good thing she heats them up first - TV dinners can leave a nasty welt when they are cold and somebody throws them at your head.
 
I have an even better reply to Junkmans original "Liberalism is so excellent" email, this is taken from the following web page:

http://belmontclub.blogspot.com/2003/09/islam-and-end-of-left-one-of-principal.html

_____________________________________________________________

The Left, long accustomed to seeing itself as the vanguard of history, has been definitively rejected in its strongholds: first in Eastern Europe and the Soviet Union where it once controlled entire states, and now by the Arabian secret societies and terrorist organizations which formerly took it as their ideological creed. It is now rotting garbage in the dustbin of history, and survives artificially only in the sheltered precincts of western academia and bohemia the way a dying sect lingers in isolated deserts. Although still capable of mischief, as David Horowitz warns us, the Left has lost all physical power of self defense. Its Bolshevik core is dead. Should the United States Armed Forces somehow be overcome by the Islamists, the Left would be helpless to prevent its inquisition, torment and extermination at the hands of a vengeful Muslim world.
The hollowing out of the Left -- the death of its Bolshevik core -- is one of the great unwritten stories of the late twentieth century. The decline of the cadre of professional revolutionaries at its center was simultaneously matched by the inrush from the periphery of the network of sympathizers, fellow travelers and "useful fools" which it once adopted as protective coloration. It was a classic case of the inmates taking over an asylum from which the keepers had fled. To appreciate the difference one can compare the Communist cadres faithfully depicted in For Whom the Bell Tolls or And Quiet Flows the Don or even Silone's Bread and Wine with the freak show of autonomists, zapatistas, rage-against-the-machine cultists, transgender spokespersons, abortion rights activists, militant gay and lesbians and tattered academics that characterize today's Left. The former, who seized power in the vast spaces of Europe and Asia, were practical revolutionaries who lived by strict democratic centralism. The latter have never even heard of Party discipline, confining their 'militance' to marching with their ass cheeks protruding from spangled underpants or affecting obnoxious attitudes while wearing adolescent masks. The current Left even lacks the capability to establish a viable underground organization -- child's play to the generation of Borodin, Tan Malacca and Ho Chi Minh. The organizational memory has gone clear out of its core. The Red Brigades of 1969 could probably not be created today. To experience any real militancy, today's Left wing activists must attach themselves as pathetic dogs to Islamic causes like the International Solidarity Movement. There, they can indulge their fantasy of advancing world socialism while objectively dying for Osama Bin Laden or Yasser Arafat. The circle is complete. The roles have been reversed. The heirs to moribund Bolshevism have now become the "useful fools", the protective coloration of a dynamic militant Islamism.
The decline of the Left was preceded by its comprehensive vulgarization. The Leftists of the generations of Beatrice Webb, Eric Hobsbawn, Paul Baran, Paul Sweezy and even Joan Robinson actually believed in "scientific socialism" and seriously debated such issues as the correct calculation of the surplus value of labor and the role of money in Communism. The Marxism of that era was regarded as a potentially exact science, capable of accurately predicting social trends and even human behavior. It was treated seriously. As late as the 1970s, Chairman Mao's Little Red Book was regarded as a scientific guide to action in the same sense that a trigonometry textbook contained formulas for the solution of angles, given the sides of a triangle. One wonders what Lenin would have made of the current coterie of abortion activists, transgenerational sex promoters, tree huggers or the Voluntary Human Extinction Movement, all of whom would fall in the Big Tent of today's Left. It is doubtful whether such a menagerie would even understand the meaning of "dialectical materialism" except in the most degenerate terms. Like a fish, Western Communism has been rotting from the head downwards for many decades. Its putrefaction is complete.
Already pronounced dead by Al Qaeda, the Left continues to get colder by the minute as it loses its remaining lifeblood to Islam. Since Islam is unlikely to hold any attractions to conservatives, it will gain membership largely at the expense of Left. In business terminology, both the Left and militant Islam are competing for the same market of addled, alienated and resentful individuals. That market share will be dominated by the party with the better product and the most competitive advantages. That is undoubtedly Islam, with an ideology of 11 centuries standing, vast financial resources and an infrastructure of action. Against this, the Left can only set its fading strongholds in the academe and the western mass media. Fading as the aging cohort of Leftist baby-boomers is edged out by increasingly conservative younger people, as the Eurosocialist nations age and decline in population. Leftist attempts to compensate by allying themselves with Islam will only accelerate their downfall as the madrassas cannibalize the faltering socialist base. The weaker the Left becomes, the more dependent it is on alliances with Islam. The closer its alliances with Islam, the weaker the Left becomes. By and by, the Left will have nothing left to offer their allies. The Taliban did not even make a pretense of sparing the Revolutionary Association of Afghan Women from persection. Al Jazeera is already buying media outlets in the west. Islam is creating endowments at Harvard and establishing a network of community schools. How much longer can the Left offer its decrepit wares, hobbling forward, not to the expected Historical Dawn but only deeper into the crypt of forgotten beliefs?

_____________________________________________________________


Respond if you must...... ;) :whistle:
 
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