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Adventures in Snowcatting
- Thread starter NorthernRedneck
- Start date
ve3otk
New member
Just be glad the temp. was nice and warm, not the usual -25C when this stuff happens!
I know exactly what you mean. I had the same exact thing happen to me last season only it was -30 at midnight 30 miles from town.
What a storm we got last night. 40mph winds, blowing snow......very cold. I went out this morning with the Lamtrac but didn't get many trails groomed due to the blowing snow. So, I went to the local sliding hill a mile or so out of town and groomed it for this weekend. Grooming a hill with a drag is different, to say the least. The hill has a little trail that loops around the side to get to the top. I decided to drag the hill going up and loop around the little trail in back to come back down. Then, I did my best impression of a Kristi snowcat at the bottom of the hill. Had to pack the whole area so I just went round and round in circles and never really got anywhere.
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mattfidaho
New member
What a storm we got last night. 40mph winds, blowing snow......very cold. I went out this morning with the Lamtrac but didn't get many trails groomed due to the blowing snow. So, I went to the local sliding hill a mile or so out of town and groomed it for this weekend. Grooming a hill with a drag is different, to say the least. The hill has a little trail that loops around the side to get to the top. I decided to drag the hill going up and loop around the little trail in back to come back down. Then, I did my best impression of a Kristi snowcat at the bottom of the hill. Had to pack the whole area so I just went round and round in circles and never really got anywhere.
LMAO, well it wasn't a very good impression if you made it back home under your own power.
I thought you were going to say you leaked more oild again...
No oil leak today but *&^*&^* cold when I was unhooking the drag this morning and hooking it back up. Thankfully the wind died down now so I'll be good to go in the morning. Then, when I was backing up to the drag to pin up, one of the steering pins broke on the passenger side. Not a big deal though as I had just ordered 2 new ones a few weeks ago and had them with me in the cab. Because the lamtrac articulates in the middle, there's a cylinder on each side connecting from the front to the back. The pins wear out and break from time to time. Kind of a pain in the A$$ to line up the cylinder with the mounting brackets with only one person. Luckily, when it happened today, my other operator showed up on his sled at the exact same time so he gave me a hand to line it up.
Yup! I hate hydraulic oil!!! It's messy. Doing anything involving the stuff usually entails getting covered head to toe in it. That was the case tonight. I was out on a short run along the side of the highway tonight on what was supposed to only take me 1/2 hour to get out there. With all the snow we got the other day, it's like starting fresh all over again grooming the trails for the first time. There was very little base on a couple of short hills.
I spun out on the first hill and had to unhook the drag to climb it then hook a chain onto the drag and pull it up once the lamtrac was on level ground at the top. Only the second time I've ever had to do that. Not a big deal. Just took a little time. when I went to reconnect the hydraulic lines from the drag to the machine, one of the lines was still pressurized with hydraulic oil which made it nearly impossible to reconnect to the quick coupler. The only way I know of to depressurize the line on the drag is to tap the fitting on the end of the drag against something hard. I did this which resulted in oil spraying out everywhere covering me head to toe. Got in all over my face, in my mouth, up my nose, in my ear. Yup! That wasn't fun. Out there at -30 with the wind howling covered in hydraulic oil. So I finally got the lines hooked back up. I go down the nest low spot and climb another short hill. Spun out again. So, I disconnected the drag again, climbed the hill, hooked a chain up to the drag, then hauled the drag up the hill and reconnected it. Had no problem hooking it up the second time. So what was supposed to take me a half hour ended up taking 4 hours.
I left the drag out at our clubhouse then had to walk the machine back to town. That only took about 20 minutes. In the morning, I'm heading back out to fire it up first thing and hook up to the bigger drag that's already in town. Then I'm off to unload the wood we picked up the other day. After that's done, I'll head out and redo that mess I made tonight. It's no problem heading west the first time with the drag behind. Tonight, I was heading east. The first hill is sort of a sidehill where the machine and the drag want to slide sideways while going up. It's a bad spot but we've got no other place to put the trail in that one section.
Hope I'm not boring you all with my grooming tales. Just need to vent a bit.
I spun out on the first hill and had to unhook the drag to climb it then hook a chain onto the drag and pull it up once the lamtrac was on level ground at the top. Only the second time I've ever had to do that. Not a big deal. Just took a little time. when I went to reconnect the hydraulic lines from the drag to the machine, one of the lines was still pressurized with hydraulic oil which made it nearly impossible to reconnect to the quick coupler. The only way I know of to depressurize the line on the drag is to tap the fitting on the end of the drag against something hard. I did this which resulted in oil spraying out everywhere covering me head to toe. Got in all over my face, in my mouth, up my nose, in my ear. Yup! That wasn't fun. Out there at -30 with the wind howling covered in hydraulic oil. So I finally got the lines hooked back up. I go down the nest low spot and climb another short hill. Spun out again. So, I disconnected the drag again, climbed the hill, hooked a chain up to the drag, then hauled the drag up the hill and reconnected it. Had no problem hooking it up the second time. So what was supposed to take me a half hour ended up taking 4 hours.
I left the drag out at our clubhouse then had to walk the machine back to town. That only took about 20 minutes. In the morning, I'm heading back out to fire it up first thing and hook up to the bigger drag that's already in town. Then I'm off to unload the wood we picked up the other day. After that's done, I'll head out and redo that mess I made tonight. It's no problem heading west the first time with the drag behind. Tonight, I was heading east. The first hill is sort of a sidehill where the machine and the drag want to slide sideways while going up. It's a bad spot but we've got no other place to put the trail in that one section.
Hope I'm not boring you all with my grooming tales. Just need to vent a bit.
mattfidaho
New member
dang you really are trying to be a krusty,
that sucks, I hate when nothing goes as planned.. better luck tomorrow.
that sucks, I hate when nothing goes as planned.. better luck tomorrow.
I'm not sure if snowcat and drag hydraulics are the same as when I used to farm, but before unhooking an implement, I'd set it back down on the ground, shut off the tractor engine, wiggle the hydraulic control lever back and forth a couple of times, and then finally unhook the hydraulic hose to the implement. I do know what it's like having to tap the hydraulic tip to release pressure: not a fun job and one to avoid if possible. 
ve3otk
New member
Our guys never turn off the ignition unless we are going to leave the equipment in the bush (for overnight, or repairs to be made), or we are parking the equipment in the barn.
The BR-160, the accessory hydraulics are electric over hydraulic. If the ignition is turned off, there is no power to operate the solenoids. Might be the same for the lamtrack. Don't know. Tucker 2000 is straight mechanical, so the hydraulic levers can be operated to equalize the pressure. I do this with my little JD 455 garden tractor when changing implements.
The BR-160, the accessory hydraulics are electric over hydraulic. If the ignition is turned off, there is no power to operate the solenoids. Might be the same for the lamtrack. Don't know. Tucker 2000 is straight mechanical, so the hydraulic levers can be operated to equalize the pressure. I do this with my little JD 455 garden tractor when changing implements.
I'm not sure if snowcat and drag hydraulics are the same as when I used to farm, but before unhooking an implement, I'd set it back down on the ground, shut off the tractor engine, wiggle the hydraulic control lever back and forth a couple of times, and then finally unhook the hydraulic hose to the implement. I do know what it's like having to tap the hydraulic tip to release pressure: not a fun job and one to avoid if possible.
Sounds like the same type of hydraulic setup as on the Lamtrac. I know what ve3otk is talking about though. The district BR160 is the same where you can't operate the hydraulics without the engine running. On the Lamtrac tough, you can still lower the drag with the engine not running. Usually. I do what snowbird describes. Last night, I was in a bit of a rush and neglect to raise the back wheels on the drag before disconnecting. So, when I went to hook up, the rear of the drag was still in the air and the lines to that cylinder were still pressurized. The only way to releive some of the pressure in the line is to tap the end of the fitting against something hard. When you do that, hydraulic oil sprays everywhere very quickly.
What a long night! I was supposed to leave at 4am on a, get this, 22 hour run in the lamtrac by myself. I tried to get to bed early last night but couldn't sleep so I decided to leave at 1am instead. Good thing. Temps were hovering around -15C. Good grooming temps......or so I thought. Everything was going smoothly and I was making good time. I was within an hour of my turnaround point. Temps were rising fast. Okay, so maybe I'll have to leave the Lamtrac at the turnaround point 97km's away and make the return trip tomorrow. No big deal! Then, I looked in my mirror and noticed my drag slowly dropping. I stop. Raise it all the way and notice it dropping again. I get out to check things out and find a busted hydraulic line going to the front cylinder on the drag. Not a big deal. I've got a spare in the tool box. I haul out the spare hose and find that it has no fittings on the end.
Everything's covered in hydraulic oil at this point. I tried for a half an hour to break the fittings loose on the damaged hose so I can put them on the good hose. No luck. So, I figure I can still keep going if I steal a hose going to the rear wheels on the drag. So, that's what I did. Swap the hoses around and try it out to check for leaks. Dang it! Now the coupler on the drag is leaking. I take the hose back off, change the coupler, and try it again. Success!!!
Temps are still rising!!!! It's now, get this one, +9 degrees. I should have been there by now. I get going and now the snow is sticking like crazy to the drag and won't roll. It's just packing up like crazy. Feels like I've got 5 drags full of snow behind me but I've got to keep going as I'm almost there. I have to keep stopping to let the engine cool down.
I get to a highway crossing and realize....."How am I going to cross this highway now that I can't use the wheels on the drag?" Oh well, no other choice. Gotta drag it across the highway with the butt plate down. I get across the highway and look back. $h-t! All that snow that was packing up in the drag is now a nice 4 inch thick layer of packed heavy wet snow on the highway. I get out and get the shovel and start shovelling while trying to not get run over by transports.
I get going again and now the snow is so sticky that it's packing up in my cleets making traction a near impossibility. I'm in a hilly stretch of the pipeline right of way now. With the snow we got last week combined with wind, I can barely make out where the hardpacked trail is. I keep slipping off the hard packed into the soft stuff and, as you know how snow gets in the springtime in warmer temps, you sink right to the bottom. I finally make it to moose mountain. It's not really that steep and is usually no problem except I've got a drag full of wet snow I can't get rid off and my cleets are packed solid with wet snow. I get a quarter of the way up the hill and spin out. I've got the front of the drag as high as it will go but I still can't lower my wheels to back up. I decide to back up a couple feet anyways and make another run at it. I make it a few more feet. Back up and try again. Only two sleds have been over this trail since it snowed. Usually that helps to pack it and provide my with traction. Nope! Not this time.
After five tries and a half hour later, I finally make it up the hill. I go down the other side and there's another highway crossing. I'm only 10 minutes from my destination. So, I decide to unhook the drag and leave it there. I'm roasting now. I dressed for -15. Got the one piece insulated coveralls on, long underwear, two pairs of wool socks. Yep! I'm hot! Got the heat shut off, doors open, fan blowing full force. At this point, I've been up for 36 hrs straight and been in the groomer for 12 hours.
I make it to the town garage where I fuel up. I've pretty much decided that I'm not going any further so I call for a ride. Gotta wait three hours till my ride comes. I start peeling off the layers. A guy who works for the town shows up and moves a truck out of the garage so I can pull in and park it there for the night. I start backing away from the fuel tanks and one of my ice breaker idlers flies off and rolls down the parking lot. I quickly chase after it and catch it just before it rolls out into traffic. I guess the bearing let go on it from overheating as the snow usually cools them down a bit but not today. The idler shaft is also junk. I look around in my stash of spare parts I keep on the groomer. Yep! There's the idler, there's the hub, there's the shaft. But, Where's the bearings????? Got no bearings to fix the broken idler. Now, I have to go back tomorrow with the bearings and get the idler put back on.
At least I don't have to make the return trip now. The other operator that runs the groomer volunteered to go with me tomorrow and help get it fixed then get it back to town.
Once it's back, I have a feeling that our grooming season it done unless we get a major cold spell and a bit more snow.
Pics to come...........
Everything's covered in hydraulic oil at this point. I tried for a half an hour to break the fittings loose on the damaged hose so I can put them on the good hose. No luck. So, I figure I can still keep going if I steal a hose going to the rear wheels on the drag. So, that's what I did. Swap the hoses around and try it out to check for leaks. Dang it! Now the coupler on the drag is leaking. I take the hose back off, change the coupler, and try it again. Success!!!
Temps are still rising!!!! It's now, get this one, +9 degrees. I should have been there by now. I get going and now the snow is sticking like crazy to the drag and won't roll. It's just packing up like crazy. Feels like I've got 5 drags full of snow behind me but I've got to keep going as I'm almost there. I have to keep stopping to let the engine cool down.
I get to a highway crossing and realize....."How am I going to cross this highway now that I can't use the wheels on the drag?" Oh well, no other choice. Gotta drag it across the highway with the butt plate down. I get across the highway and look back. $h-t! All that snow that was packing up in the drag is now a nice 4 inch thick layer of packed heavy wet snow on the highway. I get out and get the shovel and start shovelling while trying to not get run over by transports.
I get going again and now the snow is so sticky that it's packing up in my cleets making traction a near impossibility. I'm in a hilly stretch of the pipeline right of way now. With the snow we got last week combined with wind, I can barely make out where the hardpacked trail is. I keep slipping off the hard packed into the soft stuff and, as you know how snow gets in the springtime in warmer temps, you sink right to the bottom. I finally make it to moose mountain. It's not really that steep and is usually no problem except I've got a drag full of wet snow I can't get rid off and my cleets are packed solid with wet snow. I get a quarter of the way up the hill and spin out. I've got the front of the drag as high as it will go but I still can't lower my wheels to back up. I decide to back up a couple feet anyways and make another run at it. I make it a few more feet. Back up and try again. Only two sleds have been over this trail since it snowed. Usually that helps to pack it and provide my with traction. Nope! Not this time.
After five tries and a half hour later, I finally make it up the hill. I go down the other side and there's another highway crossing. I'm only 10 minutes from my destination. So, I decide to unhook the drag and leave it there. I'm roasting now. I dressed for -15. Got the one piece insulated coveralls on, long underwear, two pairs of wool socks. Yep! I'm hot! Got the heat shut off, doors open, fan blowing full force. At this point, I've been up for 36 hrs straight and been in the groomer for 12 hours.
I make it to the town garage where I fuel up. I've pretty much decided that I'm not going any further so I call for a ride. Gotta wait three hours till my ride comes. I start peeling off the layers. A guy who works for the town shows up and moves a truck out of the garage so I can pull in and park it there for the night. I start backing away from the fuel tanks and one of my ice breaker idlers flies off and rolls down the parking lot. I quickly chase after it and catch it just before it rolls out into traffic. I guess the bearing let go on it from overheating as the snow usually cools them down a bit but not today. The idler shaft is also junk. I look around in my stash of spare parts I keep on the groomer. Yep! There's the idler, there's the hub, there's the shaft. But, Where's the bearings????? Got no bearings to fix the broken idler. Now, I have to go back tomorrow with the bearings and get the idler put back on.
At least I don't have to make the return trip now. The other operator that runs the groomer volunteered to go with me tomorrow and help get it fixed then get it back to town.
Once it's back, I have a feeling that our grooming season it done unless we get a major cold spell and a bit more snow.
Pics to come...........
Let the fun start!!!! No......I didn't do it!
Yes.....it's out now!!!
Under it's own power. No chains involved! No tow needed! Let's see a Kristi or Snot trac get out of this mess by itself without a pull...
I wasn't involved in the rescue since I was out of town when it happened but I'm told the operator was able to cut away the ice behind the machine and back up. Sounds simple but after 3-4 hrs of cutting away the ice with a chainsaw, he was able to put it in reverse and back right out of there. The outcome wouldn't have been the same if had the drag on behind. Another machine would have had to hook onto the drag and pull it out of the way so he could back up.
Yes.....it's out now!!!
Under it's own power. No chains involved! No tow needed! Let's see a Kristi or Snot trac get out of this mess by itself without a pull...
I wasn't involved in the rescue since I was out of town when it happened but I'm told the operator was able to cut away the ice behind the machine and back up. Sounds simple but after 3-4 hrs of cutting away the ice with a chainsaw, he was able to put it in reverse and back right out of there. The outcome wouldn't have been the same if had the drag on behind. Another machine would have had to hook onto the drag and pull it out of the way so he could back up.
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Here's a bigger picture.
One of the hole after he backed out.
mattfidaho
New member
wow, bet he is a little gun shy next water crossing he come too. glad it worked out
I was joking with him earlier telling him I was going to put a lifejacket in the Lamtrac.....you know.....just in case.
Earlier in this thread, I described one incident in which I was supposed to meet the same operator at the halfway point of a run and run the machine back when I got a call at 4am because he had broken through a creek. I ended up taking the BR160 to go haul him out. I never did get the pictures from that incident. But it was pretty much the same as this only he had the drag on behind the other time.
No damage to the machine. We rarely if ever have track problems now since installing the new tracks/cleets before last season. New winshield is installed now. The machine is ready to go only wish we had more snow.
Earlier in this thread, I described one incident in which I was supposed to meet the same operator at the halfway point of a run and run the machine back when I got a call at 4am because he had broken through a creek. I ended up taking the BR160 to go haul him out. I never did get the pictures from that incident. But it was pretty much the same as this only he had the drag on behind the other time.
No damage to the machine. We rarely if ever have track problems now since installing the new tracks/cleets before last season. New winshield is installed now. The machine is ready to go only wish we had more snow.
so how thick was the ice in the middle? edge looked about 7" ?
He said it was around 14" where he broke through. That creek is usually only a couple feet deep but beavers have built a dam downstream raising the water level. I guess after the ice froze, the water level dropped making an air pocket between the water and the ice. This is the same creek where the back of the drag broke through last season. It's the one with a short but steep hill on the opposite shore that we need to crawl up. It's a bad spot. Nice trail but that creek and hill has been a thorn in our side since we started grooming that way a few years ago. Plans are for this summer to go in with ATV's and cut a detour around it and avoid it totally.
first off a snow trac dosn't weigh as much as my first wife so it wouldn't have fallen through the ice in the first place how ever having your engine high is a good thing i had my own water incedent this fall while crusing accross what appeared to be some swampy tundra i found a sunken mine shaft and nosed over into it i got the snow trac into reverse and started backing out but it was to late water got into the distributor cap nnd killed it had to get the jeep and pull it up on to high ground the nextmorning when things were frozen.no pics i was on private property i did take out a drain pan drained the gear boxes put in new oil pulled the plugs and swaped out dist caps and it fired up and drove away.
In all fairness to the Krusty comment made earlier, I've rethunk it a bit and now think that a Krusty might actually do well in that situation. They are essentially bathtubs on tracks anyways. So it stands to reason that they should do quite well in the water providing all the holes are sealed up.
Yes, the lamtrac is one heavy machine but it does have an advantage in that type of situation with it being higher. I'm just glad it was the lamtrac and not the br 160. I'm thinking that had it been the br160, we would have had major problems with the engine and hydraulic system.
Yes, the lamtrac is one heavy machine but it does have an advantage in that type of situation with it being higher. I'm just glad it was the lamtrac and not the br 160. I'm thinking that had it been the br160, we would have had major problems with the engine and hydraulic system.
Looking forward to the first run of the season. Still no snow yet. I figure by mid December, we should be ready to open the trails providing we get snow.
Anyways, we finally have our brushbar installed on the drag. I'm anxious to see this thing in action. We have one trail in particular that is full of tag alders sticking out from the side of the trail. This thing should make quick work of them. The knives on that thing are razor sharp and can be removed and sharpened. They are also double sided and can be flipped around when the one edge gets too mangled. We're also thinking of a way to mount a similar brushbar horizontally at the front of the drag to reg rid of those tag alders that grow up in the middle of the trail.
Anyways, we finally have our brushbar installed on the drag. I'm anxious to see this thing in action. We have one trail in particular that is full of tag alders sticking out from the side of the trail. This thing should make quick work of them. The knives on that thing are razor sharp and can be removed and sharpened. They are also double sided and can be flipped around when the one edge gets too mangled. We're also thinking of a way to mount a similar brushbar horizontally at the front of the drag to reg rid of those tag alders that grow up in the middle of the trail.
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Nice looking drag. Do the cut branches fall and get pushed to the side of the trail, or do you have to pick them up later?