Tariffs ....thoughts?
- Thread starter norscaner
- Start date
To my mind there are 2 types of tariffs.
Type 1 are those that cause policy changes.
Type 2 are those that are simple taxes.
The threatened 25% tariff on Canada and Mexico were the Type 1 tariffs. They cost American consumers nothing and they caused policy changes in the 2 threatened nations.
Trump also added a 10% tariff onto Chinese goods. This will be a direct tax on the price of goods we pay. So that is, to my mind, a Type 2 tariff. Now that said, it could also lead to production shifting a different nation, like Taiwan, Vietnam, Malaysia, etc. If it does that then the consumer is not affected and China is weakened economically while a nation that may actually be friendlier and easier to deal with diplomatically will be strengthened.
And to keep things simple for people like me, I'd have no problem eliminating out entire federal income tax structure and replacing it with tariffs. We used to have no income tax and lots of tariffs. To my mind that just lets us choose to pay taxes on the foreign items we voluntarily choose to buy.
Type 1 are those that cause policy changes.
Type 2 are those that are simple taxes.
The threatened 25% tariff on Canada and Mexico were the Type 1 tariffs. They cost American consumers nothing and they caused policy changes in the 2 threatened nations.
Trump also added a 10% tariff onto Chinese goods. This will be a direct tax on the price of goods we pay. So that is, to my mind, a Type 2 tariff. Now that said, it could also lead to production shifting a different nation, like Taiwan, Vietnam, Malaysia, etc. If it does that then the consumer is not affected and China is weakened economically while a nation that may actually be friendlier and easier to deal with diplomatically will be strengthened.
And to keep things simple for people like me, I'd have no problem eliminating out entire federal income tax structure and replacing it with tariffs. We used to have no income tax and lots of tariffs. To my mind that just lets us choose to pay taxes on the foreign items we voluntarily choose to buy.
FrancSevin
Proudly Deplorable
What he said! The income tax was created by Democrats after the USA Federal government stopped self-funding with Tariffs. Mostly type II. However they were a useful internationally negotiating tool
tommu56
Bronze Member
I personally believe tariff's level the playing field for us workers.
First I want to know where the money is going????????? Whats that movie line "SHOW ME THE MONEY"
My opinion I want a national Sales Tax that way the thugs pimps and cartels' that don't get a W2 still pay their fair share
First I want to know where the money is going????????? Whats that movie line "SHOW ME THE MONEY"
My opinion I want a national Sales Tax that way the thugs pimps and cartels' that don't get a W2 still pay their fair share
I'd also add that CORPORATE TAXES are also just simple taxes that are paid by consumers.
Tax a yacht maker and the price of a big fancy boat goes up, the person who pays for that is the consumer.
Tax a dairy farm and the prices of milk, butter and cheese go up, the many people who pay that tax are the dairy consumers.
Tax a petroleum refiner and the price of gas, diesel and oil goes up, as does plastics and many other items. The people who pay those taxes are the consumers of essentially everything that comes from oil.
tommu56
Bronze Member
That's why corporate taxes should go too I forgot to put that in my rant
With the sales tax and none other you could eliminate 80 to 90% of the IRS too.
Patriot
Well-known member
It's true that the company importing the product pays the tariff, and then often passes that extra cost on to consumers. But it is also true that consumers will buy less of a product if it costs more.
If Chinese products sold in Walmart, or on Amazon, for example, go up in price due to U.S. imposed tariffs on products imported from China, then people will buy less of that product. Chinese products are already of inferior quality to U.S. manufactured products, so the only reason American people buy them is because they are less expensive. When they are no longer less expensive, Americans will probably opt for a comparable American made product because it's better quality, and it helps American jobs and manufacturing to boot.
If the tariffs went into effect, then the company importing the Chinese product, seeing that it's demand has fallen, wouldn't import as much of that product anymore. Then, the Chinese manufacturer/Chinese government would lose a ton of money.
So, both sides knowing ahead of time how all this would play out, Trump threatens China with tariffs if they don't change their ways. If China doesn't, then the tariffs go into effect, the price of those products goes up for American consumers, and China loses a lot of money. Maybe their Chinese company even goes bust. Meanwhile, Americans get used to paying more for better American made products and never want to go back to crappy Chinese products again.
Who blinks first in this scenario? It depends on who has more to lose. Americans, on average, might complain about prices going up, at least in the short term, but then again they might also be willing to pay higher prices for stuff if the stuff is better quality, and it's helping America versus China. China, on the other hand, simply loses out. They don't have a competitive market. They are already making the products as cheap as they can. And that's why they blink first. And even if they don't, then we've just cut off more economic dependency with them, so they can't use it as leverage against us in the future.
Ultimately, America wins, and China, and any other country, knows it. That's why both the threat of tariffs and tariffs themselves work.
tommu56
Bronze Member
My new thoughts on taxes sales tax 6% total no corporate or business taxes, tariffs still to equal fair trade between country's
sales tax broken down as follows
3 to Feds
1 1-2 to the state
1 to county government / school
1/2 to local government to support them and emergency services
sales tax broken down as follows
3 to Feds
1 1-2 to the state
1 to county government / school
1/2 to local government to support them and emergency services
I think you are off. Most states have at least 5% sals tax by themselves. Plus property taxes. Plus license plates. Plus income tax.
If the goal is to have only 1 tax, then the number would need to be around 15% plus the 7/7 % for social security from payroll.
USG get 7%
State gets 8%.
We have 30+ trillion to pay down. It has to be done.
If the goal is to have only 1 tax, then the number would need to be around 15% plus the 7/7 % for social security from payroll.
USG get 7%
State gets 8%.
We have 30+ trillion to pay down. It has to be done.
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Patriot
Well-known member
I agree. And you would think that the Left would be all for a national sales tax of some sort that taxes consumption instead of an income tax, because the wealthier one is, the more one tends to spend, especially on luxury goods, and thus the more one would pay in consumption taxes. The rich pay the most, and everybody who earns money gets to keep it all, thus encouraging people to make more money/work harder. It's completely fair.
The left is for adding all sorts of taxes.
National sales tax is just one of them.
They never no to taxes.
That's an argument that I've been using for over 30 years. Strangely, nobody seems to get too excited by it. It makes perfect sense to me.
Why?
Because both Mexico and Canada ADMITTED they failed to honor agreements.
AND because both Mexico and Canada agreed to supply troops to the border, at least 10,000 each
AND because both Mexico and Canada agreed to honor the agreement to curtail drugs and human smuggling across the border
AND because because both Mexico and Canada agreed to honer the sovereign border to minimize/prevent illegal border crossing
AND because both Mexico and Canada agreed to prevent DRUG, especially fentanyl, from being smuggled from their nations into the USA
FrancSevin
Proudly Deplorable
Obviously, you don't get it.
Trump did not "change his mind."
He negotiated and got exactly what he set out to do, what he wanted, and at virtually no cost to the USA.
READ HIS BOOK,,,,The art of the deal
FrancSevin
Proudly Deplorable
President Trump is doing the negotiating, not the media. And, unlike his predecessor Biden, he is doing it out in the open. For all to see.
This is crucial as he is doing what he promised. WE THE PEOPLE get to see it.
After all, he works for us.
The media does not.
You sir are an idiot.
Before Trump was elected, he laid out three rules for either tariffs or no tarrifs.
At first Can/Mex did nothing so tariffs were on. They realized how stupid they were, spoke with and agreed to Trumps terms, so he backed them off for 30 days.
If Can/Mex haven't made progress, raid so be back on.
You are a damn fool.
tommu56
Bronze Member
I don't disagree but first they need to figure out what they are spending and balance the budget then start paying debt down
of all the people Clinton had a balanced budget why cant we do it now??????