# Where is a good place to buy a "complete" post frame building kit?



## Dargo

It's finally time; I have officially run out of room in my 60X60 (2 story inside half) and my dad is sort of asking me to get my stuff out of his barn.  I got some estimates to just add a 40X60 barn (or 50X72X16) with 16' high ceiling height behind my present barn.  Nothing special, but I do want a 1' overhang all the way around on the gable and eaves (so it doesn't look like a big cube) and I have 3 14' overhead doors out the front with 2 regular 36" doors and 4 double hung windows.  I do want it insulated, two tone metal, and to have a 36"X36" cupola on top.

I will finish out all the interior separately, do all the electric separately and do all the concrete flooring and drains separately.  I just got estimates for the actual building itself.  It’s those estimates that make it relatively clear that I’m going to just buy the “kit” and build the barn completely by myself.  However, I’m finding it difficult to locate places to get me quotes for the materials kit.  Here is a picture of an example, but this only has one overhead door and not the colors I had in mind.


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## nixon

Brent, Try Holmes Lumber . They are now a division of Carter Lumber . 
When I was doing Pole buildings ,they seem to always have better materials and plans Vs other companies We used .


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## DaveNay

http://diypolebarns.com/

Menards lumber also has them, but the closest stores to you are Bloomington, Effingham IL or Marion IL.


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## California

Both of those companies look good but don't sell in the West.

Can anybody recommend similar firms serving Northern California?


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## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

California said:


> Both of those companies look good but don't sell in the West.
> 
> Can anybody recommend similar firms serving Northern California?


 
Go to a convenience store in a rural area and look for one of those free ad papers.  We have "nickel ads" up here and it is full of pole barn companies advertising.


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## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Hey Dargo,

What kind of estimates were you getting.  Share what you find on pricing if you can.  I need to build one of these in the next year or two so I'm curious to see what you find.

Thanks,

PB


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## California

PBinWA said:


> ... "nickel ads" ...


I found my roofer like that and he was entirely competent. I thought I had a window into a circle of competent tradesmen so I asked him about a painter. 

The painter was a disaster. Right off he knocked over a 5 gallon bucket in the driveway. That was gravel, so I had him shovel it into the tractor's loader to go dump in the orchard. He shoveled so hard it slopped paint into the grille. 

The job went downhill from there. Finally, he had included caulking the window glass in his bid but refused to go back and do it until I held his payment. The finished project looks great but I had about as many hours into project management as he had in labor.

In summary I'm more cautious now and hope to start any project with a referral from a satisfied customer. Too many bozos out there.


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## Dargo

PBinWA said:


> Hey Dargo,
> 
> What kind of estimates were you getting.  Share what you find on pricing if you can.  I need to build one of these in the next year or two so I'm curious to see what you find.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> PB



So far they are around $33,000 for just the base building; no electric, floor, gutters, etc.  That price far past what I'd consider reasonable.


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## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

33K - Ouch!  For that price I'd at least want a concrete floor.

I need to work harder!


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## Dargo

Dang, I'm going through sticker shock!   I must not be the only person either.  The DIY place emailed me back and told me that they are about 2 weeks or so behind in getting out estimates for do-it-yourself kits!

Hmm, now I'm looking at getting estimates for larger steel buildings.  Some people have told me that if I go larger, steel buildings will be cheaper, and stronger, per sq. ft.  I suppose I may as well check that out as well...


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## Av8r3400

I had mine put up 2 years ago.

42 x 63 x 14' ceiling - $21k assembled, w/excavating & road base material floor
no concrete
no electricity
(1) 12 x 12 insulated overhead door
(1) 36" service door
This is a Cleary building.

This time of year you can fine "clearance" deals from builders that may have bought large numbers of trusses for the summer season and don't want to be stuck with them over the winter.  That was the deal I got into.

Overhang size (especially on the gable ends), wanes coating on the outside (2-toning), windows, skylights, copulas, doors all add considerable to the cost of the building.  Maybe look at your design for areas to "right size" this to fit your budget.

Insulating will basically double the cost of the building, due to having to skin the entire inside, too.  I will eventually build a shop on the inside of my building and isulate that, leaving the rest as "cold" storage.  Heating a building of this size would be ridiculous here in northern Wisconsin.


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## BigAl RIP

60x40 with 16' side walls . Insulated with 4- 6'x4' windows ,1-3'man door ,2 -12x12 roll up doors on a 6"consrete slab for 31 thousand . I recieved this price earlier this year in Idaho .


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## Dargo

Hmm, I'm getting more estimates in and I'm beginning to feel that the occupation to be in right now is putting up post frame buildings.  The difference between the total cost of all materials for a 60X80X16 barn (no floor yet) and the same thing erected is about $28,000.   Two places have told me that they'd be in and have the barn put up in just over a week with a crew of 4.

Now I know they do have to have proper equipment, but $28,000 for a weeks worth of work for 4 people?!  I'm sort of having a hard time with that.  I have access to a boom truck for setting trusses.  I'd have to rent a man-lift for some work, but otherwise, I have all other equipment needed.  Hell, for $28,000 I could easily buy a nice man lift rather than rent one!

Am I just that far out of touch for what companies make for a crew of 4 out working in the field??  I doubt they are paying these guys more than $18 an hour.  At that rate, the "general" contractor (company) would net over $25,000 in profit on the labor for that week.  What am I missing?  Or, is that the profit these companies make??


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## bczoom

Dargo said:


> Am I just that far out of touch for what companies make for a crew of 4 out working in the field??  I doubt they are paying these guys more than $18 an hour.  At that rate, the "general" contractor (company) would net over $25,000 in profit on the labor for that week.  What am I missing?  Or, is that the profit these companies make??


It sounds to me like they put a "feeler" out there to see if you would bite.  They're hoping for $28K since most people couldn't assemble themselves.
I've conceded to paying about $50/hour in the stuff I contract out.  How they divvy it out is their issue.  4 people working 60 hours x $50 = $12,000.  That's about all I'd pay them to do it.
Heck, find out who the assembly crew is and see if they would do it on the weekends.


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## Dargo

Has anybody built a barn using 26 gauge steel rather than 29 gauge?  According to all the companies, the 26 gauge steel is for commercial use and all residential and farm applications use 29 gauge.  I'm wondering if it would be worth the extra expense to go with the heavier gauge steel?  As far as security, someone could just as easily get into a building with a cheapo screw gun with either gauge steel, I'm just wondering about durability and if it would be worth the extra expense or not.  I noticed that the 26 gauge has much taller ridges.  I'm not sure I'd like that look.  My current barn is made with the regular 29 gauge and they would not look the same.  Thoughts?

*edit*

Oh yeah, any thoughts on going with 18' eave over 16' eaves?  Would it make a difference in making a 2 story office setup inside?

So many questions.....and, each seems to cost more money!!


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## DaveNay

Dargo said:


> Oh yeah, any thoughts on going with 18' eave over 16' eaves?  Would it make a difference in making a 2 story office setup inside?



Two stories in 16' would result in less than 8' ceilings.  That is a cost/benefit decision you need to make.


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## Dargo

DaveNay said:


> Two stories in 16' would result in less than 8' ceilings.



Exactly.  However, unless my math has gotten really bad, 18' inside would give me enough room for two complete floors inside.  Right??

I figure I'd lose about 1" for the 1st floor floor treatment; i.e. tile, carpet, etc.  In my house, I used 2X12 floor joists, but I don't think there would be a problem with using 2X10 floor joists would there?  Even if I stayed with 2X12 floor joists, I'd still only be losing about 13" or so by the time I use 3/4" OSB sub-floor and then whatever floor treatment over that.

So, let's say I lose 14" between the floor of the barn and the living/working level of the 2nd floor.  With an 8' ceiling inside the 1st floor and that 14" addition, I'd still be at roughly 9'2" at that 2nd floor height; right?  With 18' inside height, that would leave me approx 8'10" to work with before I get into the trusses.  I figure that way I could put in a 2nd floor ceiling and insulation over that ceiling.

I know that the actual height between the finished concrete floor and the bottom of the truss likely won't be exactly 18' if I go with 18' eaves, but it should be relatively close; wouldn't it?  I'm not trying to be a smart-ass, I'm honestly asking to see if I'm just flat out missing something.  I obviously underestimated things when I built my first barn.  I don't intend on doing so again if I can help it.  So, am I on the right track?? :vemo:


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## DaveNay

Dargo said:


> Exactly.  However, unless my math has gotten really bad, 18' inside would give me enough room for two complete floors inside.  Right??



True 18' from slab to rafters should be easy enough...just make sure the builder understands that is one of your primary design points, and then double and triple check them as they work.

Your math sounds correct, I'd include 1 1/2" sleepers on the cement to allow for rigid insulation (unless you do radiant in the slab), then 3/4" decking. Are you planning to finish the ceiling of the first floor?  If so, you need drywall and furring strips are a good idea. Personally, I'd go with 2x12 joists, and another 3/4" deck.  You will need 2x6 furring strips perpendicular to the rafters to hang your drywall on the second floor.  Second floor insulation can go above the furring at the same level as the lower chord of the truss.

1.5 + .75 + 96 + .5 + 1.5 + 11.25 + .75 + 96 + .5 + 1.5 = 210.25 = 17' 6 1/4"

Almost 6" of "adjustabliity"


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## Dargo

Finally!!  After months of waiting for the ground to dry out I have the trucks rolling tomorrow morning to pour the final 80 yards or so of concrete outside my barn.  Now I get in and see that there is a flash flood warning for tonight!   The hell!!  We haven't had more than 3 days without rain since sometime before Christmas; unless you count the days where it was below zero outside.  Now I finally get everything formed up and the workers and concrete scheduled and the rain comes back! 

C'mon, give me a break.....please!


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## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

So what did you end up buying and from where? I'm still planning on building mine. I may have to buy a bunch more land this year so I'm sitting on a pile of cash at the moment but if the land deal goes through it's shop time!


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## Doc

Good luck Brent.    Keep us posted.


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## Dargo

PBinWA said:


> So what did you end up buying and from where? I'm still planning on building mine. I may have to buy a bunch more land this year so I'm sitting on a pile of cash at the moment but if the land deal goes through it's shop time!



Da Amish....Graber.  Here a few pictures of the progress.  I've been wiring it and putting in lights at nights and on weekends.  I'll be happy to be finished with the concrete work!


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## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Dargo said:


> Da Amish....Graber. Here a few pictures of the progress. I've been wiring it and putting in lights at nights and on weekends. I'll be happy to be finished with the concrete work!


 
Grrrr . . . we don't have any of them there Amish 'round these parts!

The last pic you posted didn't show the building.  I was wondering what sort of pole building you bought that the floor was poured first.

Looks nice!


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## Erik

late to the party - but PB do you have Sutherland's Lumber out your way?
they do kits pretty reasonable.
otherwise, find a real lumberyard - not lowe's or home despot - and ask them to put a bid together for all the parts you'd need.  and tell them what overhang you want for your eaves and they can get trusses designed for that kind of loading.
the one I built several years back was a 24x48 with 10' sidewalls and 2' eaves.  At the time, parts ran about $3k.  sutherland's around here quotes a similar sized kit for anywhere from $4k-$7k depending on pole vs framing, roofing, and siding materials.  concrete extra.


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## daedong

Dargo it looks good! 

Do you not have white ants? Timber building like that here would be eaten in  no time.


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## Dargo

daedong said:


> Dargo it looks good!
> 
> Do you not have white ants? Timber building like that here would be eaten in  no time.



No, I suppose I don't know about white ants.  You guys have some of the most diverse forms of life in the world.  I guess some can be real brutal as well.  We get issues from termites, but they generally are issues in damp and dark places as best I can tell.  Since I'm not exactly a pure organic sort of guy in my yard, I don't hesitate to use pesticides to keep little buggers at bay in my yard.  I generally spray my entire yard two or three times a year with malathion.  That way we aren't bothered by bugs when outdoors nor do our dogs have issues with fleas or ticks.

Due to the hot and really humid weather in the summer and cold snowy weather in the winter, I live in what's known as the "rust belt" around here.  Unpainted or untreated steel will rust apart rather quickly.  And, for what I'm told is a multitude of reasons, steel prices seem to be going up and up.  I certainly considered going with a steel framed structure, but the prices just were not feasible for me.  But, anyway, we have some old wood barns around here that are still standing after a hundred years or so with the only structure problems mostly being due to rotting from a leaking roof.


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## Dargo

PBinWA said:


> Grrrr . . . we don't have any of them there Amish 'round these parts!
> 
> The last pic you posted didn't show the building.  I was wondering what sort of pole building you bought that the floor was poured first.
> 
> Looks nice!



You may want to move relatively soon due to all prices going way up.  I'm told it's due to the soaring fuel costs, but can't say that is the actual truth.  Either way, prices on wood are just starting to go back up, steel has already gone up, up, up, and now concrete companies are beginning to tack $2 to $3 per yard fuel surcharges on concrete.  It seems that for years I could get 5000 psi concrete delivered for sixty something bucks per yard.  In the last year that went to the mid 80's per yard.  I only kept this last batch of concrete coming this morning in that price due to me approaching the 1000 yard mark with this concrete company in the last couple of years.  Otherwise it was going to cost over $100 a yard now!


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## Melensdad

I keep looking at this thread, and then I think about the loose shingle on my garage roof, then I look at this thread, then I ponder that loose shingle some more and wonder how to get Dargo up here to fix it.  WOW, I am really lazy.


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## Dargo

Break time (short)...6 trucks empty so far.


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## Melensdad

Dargo said:


> Break time


Great, now you have some time to take a look at this shingle situation I have at the peak of the garage roof.  Oh yea, bring nails and a hammer too.


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## Erik

B_Skurka said:


> Great, now you have some time to take a look at this shingle situation I have at the peak of the garage roof.  Oh yea, bring nails and a hammer too.


 
NOW you're starting to sound like one of my neighbors...


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## Av8r3400

Dargo:  I'm so jealous of your concrete, I think I hate you.


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## Dargo

Av8r3400 said:


> Dargo:  I'm so jealous of your concrete, I think I hate you.



Last truck.  Now I had to pay for the materials already.  Ouch!

More work now...


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## Dargo

About finished for the day...and now it's starting to rain.


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## RedRocker

Very nice, one of these days maybe.


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## Dargo

RedRocker said:


> Very nice, one of these days maybe.



I don't know how many hours, but 7 cases of caulk and I'm nearly finished caulking all the joints to prevent future water damage.


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## rback33

Dargo said:


> I don't know how many hours, but 7 cases of caulk and I'm nearly finished caulking all the joints to prevent future water damage.



Now I know why I would just run gravel.....


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