# Backcountry Bear Attacks ~ "Bear Spray" or Bullets?



## Melensdad

Out in the wilderness, taking a hike and a bear attacks!  Now what?

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hamb3yqT7r76OnJPNbn2p9v0MSJAD9FJTIMO0
By MEAD GRUVER (AP) – 14 hours ago
CHEYENNE, Wyo. — The grizzly took Jerry Ruth by surprise, bursting from thick brush and biting his jaw almost completely off.

On the ground and barely able to see, Ruth grabbed his .41 Magnum-caliber revolver and started shooting. The third bullet pierced the bear's heart and spinal cord, killing it from 25 feet.  "I'm glad I was armed with a firearm and I'm glad I was able to shoot straight," said Ruth, attacked last July 19 a couple miles from his home not far from Yellowstone National Park.  Ruth's gun quite possibly saved his life. It also provided fodder for a long-standing debate about whether a gun or bear spray is better in fending off a grizzly attack.

And if that sounds like an esoteric discussion, it has intensified with a new federal law allowing people to carry guns in national parks.

The advent of the new law focused not on bears but on Second Amendment rights. Even so, three national parks — Glacier, Yellowstone and Grand Teton — are waiting to see what will happen once hikers and campers begin venturing into the backcountry in the weeks ahead.

"Experience shows that putting firearms and grizzly bears in the same place ends up with dead grizzly bears," said Steve Cain, senior biologist for Grand Teton National Park.  "Time will tell. Of course there is the potential for unintended consequences — injury to bears, injury to people," said Glacier spokeswoman Amy Vanderbilt.  Grizzlies are the undisputed bosses of the backcountry in the three parks. They've killed 10 people in Glacier and five in Yellowstone in the past century. Those parks average one grizzly attack with injuries a year. Grand Teton has had only a handful of attacks, and no deaths, but it's only had substantial numbers of grizzlies for the past decade or so.

Wyoming, Idaho and Montana are home to roughly 1,300 grizzlies. Their numbers have rebounded since the 1970s and, although grizzlies still are listed as a threatened species, it's no longer rare for one lolling roadside to jam up tourist traffic in Grand Teton, Yellowstone or Glacier.

Ruth was attacked not long after he and his wife moved to Clark in remote northwestern Wyoming. He said the 275-pound female grizzly, which had three cubs, attacked while he was hiking with a friend.  "It was like walking down a hallway and somebody jumping out of a doorway," said Ruth, who'd just retired after 28 years as a Baltimore-area police officer.  Ruth counted on his experience and training with guns to ensure that the bear, after its initial attack, wouldn't come back and finish him off, said Mark Bruscino, the Wyoming Game and Fish Department chief bear biologist who investigated the mauling.

"Using a firearm in that situation was completely justifiable," Bruscino said. "He probably could not have lived through another thrashing like the first go-around."  Yet park rangers in Yellowstone, Grand Teton and Glacier are still telling visitors that a pressurized can of hot-pepper oil — bear spray — is their best defense.
*Their reasoning? Studies show that in most cases, putting a cloud of bear spray in a grizzly's face works better than trying to stop a moving 400-pound animal with a perfectly placed bullet.​*"You've got to be a really good shot with a gun," said Yellowstone bear biologist Kerry Gunther. "That's the beauty of bear spray. You don't really have to aim it. All you have to do is pull it and pull the trigger."
Bear spray, of course, also happens to be better for bears.

Park visitors used to have to keep their guns unloaded and well out of reach, such as in the trunk. The new law allows visitors to take loaded guns anywhere they're not prohibited by state or federal law.

Bear biologist Tom Smith said he's "absolutely concerned" about grizzlies dying unnecessarily.  An assistant professor at Brigham Young University, Smith used to work at Alaska's Katmai National Park and Preserve, a place famous for drawing large numbers of grizzlies that feed on spawning salmon.  Smith said tourists at Katmai often would tell him they'd been charged — but that after reviewing video footage they provided as evidence, he never saw a grizzly charging, just bears walking about and minding their own business.

"The point is, people can't read these animals at all," Smith said.
Smith has evaluated the efficacy of bear spray in reported aggressive and nonagressive encounters in Alaska between 1985 and 2006. He found that bear spray stopped grizzlies in 46 of 50 cases, or 92 percent of the time.
*Bear spray stopped charging grizzlies 12 out of 14 times, a success rate of 85 percent. The other two times a grizzly charged, one person was deeply scratched and the other was spared when the grizzly moved off after stopping just a few feet away.​*"Simply put, if you're just a hiker, you're far better off with the nonlethal deterrent like bear spray. The numbers just speak for themselves," Smith said.

It's also more practical, Smith said: In thick trees and brush where a grizzly could surprise you, hiking with a lightweight can in your hand with the safety off is much easier than holding an unholstered large-caliber handgun.

Shooting a grizzly in a national park will not go without inquiry, unless it is an obvious case of saving your life or someone else's. For one thing, shooting a gun in a national park is still against the law. For another, killing a grizzly, except to defend yourself or someone else, is a federal crime punishable by up to six months in prison and a $25,000 fine.
On top of that, killing wildlife in a national park is a separate crime altogether.

"It gets fairly complex, but it's safe to say these things will be investigated," said Tim Reed, chief ranger for Yellowstone. In the vast national forests surrounding the three parks, elk and deer hunters encounter and kill grizzlies frequently. In 2008, hunters killed eight grizzlies in self-defense near Yellowstone. But hunters move stealthily off-trail, more or less ready to shoot — something hikers typically don't do.

Ruth had no time to use his gun when he was attacked. He shot the grizzly after it went back into the brush to check on its cubs. Even if he had bear spray, twigs and branches could have blocked the spray and made it less effective, he said.

"My situation was pretty dire at the time and I'm not sure pepper spray would have worked at that point," Ruth said. The three orphaned cubs were taken to the Memphis Zoo.

Ruth spent 12 days in a hospital and is still recovering. He said he and his wife, Cindy, still enjoy backcountry hiking and camping. He still takes his gun.

"You never think that you're going to use it for anything. You just bring it along because you think it would be a good idea," Ruth said.
His wife, who dislikes handling guns, takes bear spray.​


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## Cowboy

Bear bells 



The Forest Service has issued a BEAR WARNING in the national forests for this summer. They're urging everyone to protect themselves by wearing bells and carrying pepper spray.

Campers should be alert for signs of fresh bear activity, and they should be able to tell the difference between Black Bear dung and Grizzy Bear dung.

Black Bear dung is rather small and round. Sometimes you can see fruit seeds and/or squirrel fur in it. 

Grizzly Bear dung has bells in it, and smells like pepper spray!


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## loboloco

Dead bear or dead me, no contest.  Rather argue in court than be bear scat.


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## Melensdad

Cowboy said:


> Bear bells
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> The Forest Service has issued a BEAR WARNING in the national forests for this summer. They're urging everyone to protect themselves by wearing bells and carrying pepper spray.
> 
> Campers should be alert for signs of fresh bear activity, and they should be able to tell the difference between Black Bear dung and Grizzy Bear dung.
> 
> Black Bear dung is rather small and round. Sometimes you can see fruit seeds and/or squirrel fur in it.
> 
> Grizzly Bear dung has bells in it, and smells like pepper spray!



Like this?


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## loboloco

Dinnertime!!!


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## Melensdad




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## Snowtrac Nome

gun's are good the bigger the better and no scopes if you are using one for self defence it's going to be  up close and personal also if you carry a large caliber gunn you best know how to use it and not be afraid to use it if you can get a good shot try for the front shoulder ad break it down in multipal shots bears dont move fast on their back leggs but because their hearts beat so slow when pumped up on adreanlin they can recieve a kill shot and still be moving around fast enough to kill you noise is a good thing and so is human smelll if a bear can avoid you he will is he is surprised he will be whooping your a$$ the excettion to the rule is spring time when they are grumpy and hungry. bear spray and cattle prods may have their place if the bear is looking for troubble you best have a big gun you are going to need it.


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## Melensdad

dds said:


> gun's are good the bigger the better...


So you don't wear a bear bell 

Well digging around I found a Blog from some other Alaskans, here is a bit of it:
*Bear Sign – Hair*
By grovetta
http://alaskamyway.wordpress.com/2009/09/26/bear-sign-hair/

OK, this will be a short post.  Some people think we are obsessive about being bear cautious – what are the odds of one attacking you?  Attacks are very, very rare – but they do happen.   What made us believers was when a friend of ours was attacked while hunting alone on Admiralty Island.  Visiting him in the hospital, seeing the fear in his eyes days after the attack, seeing his mangled body, that convinced us to always try to be alert and armed.  Even to this day, our friend – a rough & tough old-time Alaskan – tears up if you bring up the topic of the bear attack.  The saying  ”I would rather be safe than sorry” applies here. 









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## JEV

loboloco said:


> Dinnertime!!!


Exactly. Just what Yogi & Boo-Boo were waiting to hear. Personally, I never venture into any wooded area without a sidearm. I often wonder what people think when they tempt fate by going into the bear's environment. Do they think the bears have been to a class sponsored by the local Ranger to leave the dumb tourists alone? Wild animals are to be treated with respect, and should be given a wide berth. People have desensitized animals in parks to the point where the animals just meander into the campgrounds to take advantage of the food and trash left out by campers who do not know the proper way to camp in the wild. Sadly, many animals are killed by rangers because they no longer will stay in the wild after repeated relocation's. They continually find their way back to civilization where they know it's easy pickings for them, and thus they endanger the very people who are causing the problems. 

It's nice to see animals in nature, but in true nature, animals avoid human contact. If you can see them and they are not moving away to hide, you're too close to them, and they no longer fear you. That can spell danger for both the human and the beast.


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## Snowtrac Nome

Melensdad said:


> So you don't wear a bear bell
> 
> Well digging around I found a Blog from some other Alaskans, here is a bit of it:
> *Bear Sign – Hair*
> By grovetta
> http://alaskamyway.wordpress.com/2009/09/26/bear-sign-hair/
> 
> OK, this will be a short post. Some people think we are obsessive about being bear cautious – what are the odds of one attacking you? Attacks are very, very rare – but they do happen. What made us believers was when a friend of ours was attacked while hunting alone on Admiralty Island. Visiting him in the hospital, seeing the fear in his eyes days after the attack, seeing his mangled body, that convinced us to always try to be alert and armed. Even to this day, our friend – a rough & tough old-time Alaskan – tears up if you bring up the topic of the bear attack. The saying ”I would rather be safe than sorry” applies here.
> 
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 yes Bob i don't wear a bell i do have kids dogs and quads so unless im hunting noise disaplen is of no concern to  me how ever i have had to defend my family against 3 bears while on a berry picking trip i had 3 young bears come out of the wood work hunting just like a pack i dropped the lead bear the other 2 turned around and went back in to the woods my bfg kept me on top of the food chain that day they were hungry and any thing would do smelling people and dogs was what i suspect brought them in there was almost no fat on the one i killed abd it was in the fall when they should be plump for winter.


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## fogtender

Having used both with success, I would opt for the gun. 

There is a large amount of satisfaction holding a gun while a bear is trying to decide if you are dinner, just a threat, or not worth the effort. 

Standing there shaking a can of bear spray to make sure it is mixed properly, just don't instill the same feeling of confidance...

Shot a Kodiak brown bear in the face with a can of bear spray, it was standing up against the rock ledge that I was on hoping it would pass, it didn't, it turned around and stood up to where it's nose was about three feet from my toes. I hosed it down with the spray and it rolled down on it's butt and did a backward roll over on the beach and then started flipping bowling sized rocks all over the place because it couldn't see and was pissed. It ran into the rock I was on and made a solid thud, from there it ran into all sorts of stuff as it went down the beach clearly pissed from wince I left my perch and went the other way fairly quickly. 

At that point, I think a .44 shot in the air before the spray would have made him run off. But he did have a bright orange head because I got him right up the nose and that spray was hard and fast...

Have seen hundreds of bears over the years, some from a few feet away, and only had to shoot one years ago that was going to attempt to eat me... he lost.

Guns rule....!


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## Lia

Cowboy said:


> Bear bells
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Black Bear dung is rather small and round. Sometimes you can see fruit seeds and/or squirrel fur in it.
> 
> Grizzly Bear dung has bells in it, and smells like pepper spray!


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## Cletis

Supposedly the story is that this guy had spotted some elk and was sneaking up closer through some very dense brush (like a hallway).

I've done a considerable amount of hunting south of Yellowstone and in grizzzly country thats not the brightest thing a guy would do.

Best to be in a little more open terrain where you can see a little better but guess its not so good for sneaking.

Cletis


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## Lia

Gotta be careful of your prey, they have a nasty habit of er... sneaking up on one.


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## fogtender

Lia said:


> Gotta be careful of your prey, they have a nasty habit of er... sneaking up on one.


 
That looks like one of my few deer hunts down in the states...  except when in a tree stand, I had guys come up and sit on the same trees roots, that I was up in wearing bright orange...   Scared the hell out of them when I would look down between my boots toes and ask them to go somewhere else.


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## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Looks like the "Bear Spray Only" policy isn't working out so great . . .

*http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/nat...tack-in-yellowstone-second-one-this-year.html

*


> *Fatal bear attack in Yellowstone is the second this summer *
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> August 29, 2011 | 12:52 pm
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> A Yellowstone National Park hiker whose body was found last week was  mauled and killed by a grizzly bear, authorities confirmed Monday.
> The hiker was identified as 59-year-old John Wallace of Chassell,  Mich. He was traveling alone and had pitched his tent in a campground  along the Mary Mountain Trail on Wednesday.
> His body was discovered Friday morning by two hikers. An autopsy  conducted on Sunday confirmed that Wallace died of traumatic injuries  from a bear attack.
> "There was no witness to this incident and we really don't have a lot  of information to help us determine why this attack may have occurred,"  said Al Nash, park spokesman.
> He said park rangers are conducting fly-overs of the area where the attack occurred.
> "The next step is to see if we can find a bear, and then determine if  that is the bear involved in the incident," he said. "That might help  them figure out why this attack happened at all."
> Wallace is the second person to die of a bear attack in the park this summer. In July, a female bear attacked and killed a 57-year-old Torrance man.
> Still, bear attacks are rare at Yellowstone. No one was hurt by a  bear in the park last year, and before the two latest incidents, no  human had been killed by a bear in the park since 1986.
> Nash put it this way: "In recent years we've had about one bear-caused injury for every 3 million visitors," he said.
> Park rangers and managers and wildlife biologists are still  investigating just what happened to Wallace. In earlier reports of the  incident it was noted that he was carrying a snack bar in his closed  backpack, but the bear reportedly did not try to get to that.
> Visitors to Yellowstone are advised to stay on designated trails,  hike in groups of three or more and be on general alert for bears. Bear  repellent spray is recommended, and hikers are advised not to run if  they encounter a bear.


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## Melensdad

PB, interesting timing with your post.

I was just reading about an Idaho man who shot a mama-Grizzly in his back yard where his children were playing.  Apparently he is facing federal charges for protecting his family . . . uh, err, I mean for killing a protected species.

The Governor of Idaho has now sent a letter to the federal officials asking the charges be dropped in favor of a 'self defense' ruling.

One thing is sure, the Grizzly bear is at the top of the food chain in the lower 48 and no man is his equal . . . unless he has a big ass gun


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## Snowtrac Nome

i still like a loud large caliber fire arm because noise will usually deture a bear attack to begin with i also usualy take and drain the lizzard all around camp like a dog and they don't ever seem to come in to camp same goes with meat drape my sweaty clothes on my meat and every thing leaves it alone us humans must stink


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## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

My meat is usually covered in sweaty clothes.


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## Snowtrac Nome

yes master of destruction you won't drag a whole moose out on a quad every thing is wraped in game baggs and i will take a shirt or jacket in lay it ofer the top to show the other animals that have a better sniffer than mine that the meat is my property to date nothing has ever touched a pile of meat i have had to leave alone in the field while hauling it out


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## Cletis

Talked to an outfitter this past spring that had to kill two grizzlies last yr in the Thorofare.  Second one he dropped at 25yds while charging him and immediately called G&F.  They tried to convict him but his lawyer was able to show it was in self defense.  Cost him a ton of $ to get out of the mess.

The first death this yr in Yellowstone was also bs.  Supposedly the guy and his wife seen the bear 100yds away and started backing off.  The bear charged at 100yds.  The morons claimed the bear was acting in self defense.  Yeah right the bear felt threated at 100yds!!!!!!!!!!!

When I was in Alaska a couple weeks ago on a bear viewing trip the pilots all had flares for defense.  They said for two reasons, they didn't want the pepper spray in the planes and the pepper spray doesn't work.

We drew elk tags in a very good area this yr.  We start bow hunting this week end.  Many Griz have been seen in this area already this yr.  Hopefully all goes well.  Hopefully the 44 isn't needed and stays holstered.

Cletis


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## fogtender

When I have had bear encounters, normally one warning shot will send them running, it's the bear that jumps you that you don't see coming, and that having a gun or bear spray is pretty mute point if you can't bring either into play.  Even if you are being chewed on and can fire a round off from a pistol, you can get the bear to bolt.  Pretty hard to scare something off with a hissing can of bear spray when you can't see the bear pinning you down!

Not to mention, even with an empty pistol (.44 mag), it weighs enough I can get some pretty good hits in to make a bear smart a bit, pinging them on the head with an empty spray can is pretty pathetic!


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