# New, Small Personal Snowcats for sale



## Melensdad

Most of us here at the ForumsForums have older snowcats, often they are heaps that we rebuild.  Here is a brand new snowcat that is similar to a tracked version of a Polaris Ranger or similar Utility Vehicle.  

http://www.litetrax.com/index.htm

Priced at under $11,000 for a new unit, it only seats two people and the price can be driven up with options so it is more expensive and hauls fewer people than many of the older units, but it still might have some appeal to some people.


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## pixie

I think this Iron Horse is probably what that is based on,

http://www.tiltonequipment.com/Jonsered/Tilton_Jonsered_iron_horse_images_page.html

(Lots of pics...takes a sec to load)


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## nutsster

I thought you were talking about the Litefoot/Pistonbully snowcat.  It was designed and built by a former LMC engineer and sold locally in Salt Lake City.  Peterson's Equipment have sold a few of them and have been very impressed.  It is a copy of the LMC 1800.   

See it at,  http://www.litefootsnowcats.com 

Compare it to the new Pistonbully scout.  I was told that Pistonbully wanted to have a quality small cat built and sold in the U.S. and purchased the Litefoot for that purpose.  It will be made in Reno, NV and it sells for around $100,000.00!


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## Melensdad

Seems to me that there is a market for something IN BETWEEN the $100,000 PB Scout and the $11,000 Lite Trax 700.  

From a practical standpoint, the Scout and the LiteFoot are limited to corporate buyers.  And while private individuals can afford the little Lite Trax 700, its size really limits is utility.  As a cabin access vehicle it is very marginal because it only holds 2 people and probably not very comfortably so a trip of a half dozen miles or so back-country would not necessarily be an enjoyable one.  Certainly its size limits its use as a family transporter.  And while it might be more capable on the snow than something like a track equipped Argo 8x8, I'd guess that more people would choose the Argo due to the fact that it can carry 4 passengers plus some supplies.

I really think that a modern Snow Trac, or something of similar size/capabilities, if it could be priced at $25,000 to $30,000, would have a real appeal to a lot of buyers.  It doesn't require a special trailer, with a weight (_fully loaded with supplies & fuel_) under 3000 pounds it tows easily behind a modest size vehicle, it holds the entire family (_seats 7_) with their luggage, and it is simple to operate.  It strikes me that a lot of buyers would buy something that!


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## nutsster

I agree that something is needed to fill the gap.   A snowcat that is between the IMP and Spryte in size would be perfect.  Everyone wants to go hydrostatic with the new machines too.  From what I have seen the small hydrostatic machines are much slower or have a hi/lo range to get some speed for travel.  I believe an economical skid steering version of an OC-12 would be the ticket and reduce the price greatly.  The size of the scout or LMC 1500 is about perfect for the cabin owner or utility company.  
The Litetracks is more in the range of a snowmobile then a snowcat to me.


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## Melensdad

nutsster said:
			
		

> I believe an economical skid steering version of an OC-12 would be the ticket and reduce the price greatly.


Absolutely. 

Something simple, rugged and capable of hauling 5 people plus gear would be ideal.  It might not be the best, most capable snowcat by modern standards, most people don't need the best, they just need a time proven design that works and that they can maintain.


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## mlang2005

Oh no here we go again.  perfect snocat? gas or diesel, hydrostatic or mechanical drive,    but i do love it.


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## BigAl RIP

Seriously now ! Lets give this some thought . A Kristi KT7 is hydro drive. Mid engine . Gas powered . Really nice looking . And the owner is incredibly good looking . Built like a brick PooPoo house and has a great sense of humor . 
    Damn ! I think I love me !!!
  So lets start rebuiding the ole KT7  . Eat your heart out Bogus Bob !!!


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## griz

Just purchased a Renegade 300ZTR  will try to add photo if not there is a pic in my photo album (this is first reply) 
Seats 4 (two Jump seats, probably not very comfortable) will haul some equipment (Back packs, skis, coffee maybe a black dog. Hydrostatic Drive 
Should arrive before Christmas.

Looked and talked to the folks at http://centaur8x8.ca/products/product.asp 
30k-40k depending on options
Looked & talked to the folks at Terra Track    http://terratrack.com/ 25k-30k depending on options.
Looked and talked to Litetrax Folks 10.5k- 15k depending on options, they kind of talked me out of it saying they didn’t think it would pull my groomer (Yellowstone Gunzu 84”) http://www.yellowstonetrack.com/ I think it would have, the tracks and assembly are snowmobile track easy to get parts, but there is something that protrudes beyond the front of the track? That looks to me like would always be hitting something Trees, Ice, Brush or what ever is out there. Have Video of this machine working, looks simple, works hard and probably a great machine.

Little off subject A little background 
I Groom cross-country ski trails on the boarder of Montana & Idaho @ Lolo Pass Hwy 12
Currently using 2 Thiokol 1404 Full Cab Imps A Ski-Doo Skandic SWT Snowmobile with the Ginzu Groomer. The Sled Works to about 4 or 5 inches of new snow then I have to use the Imps.
We get a lot of snow  (about 14 feet last year) so the Imps are used a lot, as you all know when you use them, you work on them. I don’t mind working on them I am tiered of chasing parts. Peterson Equipment in Logan UT is a great supplier of Thiokol parts. So the last couple of years I have been looking for something to use that didn’t cost so much, that would be fairly dependable and that I could find parts for.


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## nutsster

I really don't consider the centaur, lite-tracks, terra track or renegade a true "snow cat".  They are more in the catagory of ATV's or snowmobiles.  It's not that they don't serve a purpose at all,  they could be practicle for some applications.


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## BigAl RIP

nutsster said:
			
		

> I really don't consider the centaur, lite-tracks, terra track or renegade a true "snow cat". They are more in the catagory of ATV's or snowmobiles. It's not that they don't serve a purpose at all, they could be practicle for some applications.


 
 Well said !


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## Melensdad

*Rather than start a new thread with this, I figured I would post this here.*  This 6x6 is roughly the same size as the Lite Trac we started this thread with so I figured it would make a good comparision.

So, given what we have seen with the above Lite Trac, and looking at the MAX II 6x6 with Snow Tracs below, which do you think has more use?  The Max cost over $15,000 in 2003, the Lite Trac costs $11,000 bare, but optioned up would be in the same ballpark.  Any thoughts on these things?

Seems like they might be fun, maybe a little less useful than a Kubota RTV around the property because they don't have a real cargo bed.  More toy than work?

Here is the Ebay link:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MAX-II-Amphibious-6x6-6-wheeler-ATV-UTV-w-Snow-TRACKS_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6726QQihZ006QQitemZ160062559174QQrdZ1
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]_Item Specifics - ATVs_[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Sans-Serif]Make: [/FONT]*Max *


[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Sans-Serif]Model: [/FONT]*MAX II *
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Sans-Serif]Engine Size (cc): [/FONT]*480 cc *
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Sans-Serif]Type: [/FONT]*Utility *
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Sans-Serif]Transmission Type: [/FONT]*Automatic *
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Sans-Serif]Year: [/FONT]*2003 *
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Sans-Serif]Condition: [/FONT]*Used *






















      [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] *Vehicle Description* [/FONT]   
*DESCRIPTION*​ *You are bidding on a **2003 MAX II 6 WHEELER made right here in Buffalo, NY.*  I am the original owner of this machine and it only has 66 hours!  I have clear title and all paperwork and owners manuals. I have used it very little since purchasing in December 2003 for over $15,000 brand new not including some custom options.  It is fully automatic with forward and reverse gears, 360 degree turning radius!  This would make a great snow or trail groomer for snowmobile clubs or to use it as I did for enjoyment.  Can get optional plow that is available through MAX Recreatives.  It is currently registered and insured through State Farm as a snowmobile but can also be registered as an ATV or boat. The best part about this Max is that you can drive in all terrain, all weather, and all conditions in the comfort of the enclosed cab! It has a channel through the side of the body for the engine heat to wam up the cab in the winter so you can leave all those expensive winter clothes behind!  This is an amphibious machine, it floats on water at approximately 4 MPH and will do 25 MPH on land. On a 5 Gallon tank this little beast will go all day and usually the next day! It has a 1000lb towing capacity. I have yet to ever use the winch that is included, I have never gotten it stuck, in fact, it has NEVER let me down.  If ever needed, parts are inexpensive and easily available.  I have changed the oil and lubricated all axles and chains annually.  It is just barely past the break-in period.  The reason I am selling this is because I don't have the time to enjoy this GREAT MACHINE! I also have a 4x4 Honda ATV but this is much better to ride around in. Refer to www.maxatvs.com for more information.
*CONDITION*​ This machine is in EXCELLENT condition. (Again, ONLY 66 hours)  The tracks have only about 30 hours of use. (Still has "rubber whiskers" on them)  Everything is in perfect working condition, starts as soon as you hit the key everytime. (Even in extreme Buffalo weather conditions)  The body is flawless with no cracks, tears or damage.  Seat is in perfect shape as well as the entire interior and exterior.  ​ *OPTIONS*​ Tracks (removable), fully enclosed convertible top, fold down safety glass(just like a car) windshield with stainless steel electric wiper, 1/2 inch thick solid stainless winch plate housing, along with 3,000 lb. Warn winch with indash rocker switch, also comes with removable 10 foot remote control switch that plugs into the dash.  Dash includes hour meter, amp meter, ignition and light up wiper switch.  Has optional solid splined axles and optional heavy duty O-ring chain and sprockets.  Rear luggage rack, chrome roll bar and optional 16 hp Vanguard Briggs and Stratton V-Twin motor. (very quiet and economical 4-stroke)  Machine also comes with rear hitch and 5 gallon fuel tank.  ​ ​


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## mtntopper

Bob, the MaxII you are showing actually has rubber tracks. Most similar units that I have seen use an all terrain plastic track pad system. The rubber tracks will definitely be better in the snow and probably will not lose traction on the tire as fast as the plastic pads. The plastic track owners that I have been around (Argo) are not very happy with their machines performance in snow. 

The MaxII is probably the best for all seasons, but the litetrax for more serious winter snow work would be better. The design of the litetrax is aimed at the winter market and without using both I would guess it would be best as a winter toy.

I do not believe that anyone with a real snow cat would be happy switching to one of these smaller units. I have some neighbors that come up on weekends using the conversion units and they do fine as long as they stay in tracks made by a snow cat. If they happen to miss the hard packed cat tracks and fall off into 2 foot plus of snow they struggle. If it starts storming hard they load up and go home and I go out to play..... 

Just my .02 worth....for today....


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## Melensdad

Here is another design.  This looks to be an improved version of the Cushmann Trackster?

http://www.terratrack.com/


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## acudanut

Can anyone tell me what this is, and what would be a good deal....Wait where is the browser tab ??


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## acudanut

okay, here it is.


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## pixie

Welcome to this forum.

That's an SW48 from the 1960-70s. Probably has a Chrysler flathead 6 w/251 cubic inches.

A good deal depends on what needs to be fixed/replaced. Between $1500 and $6000 for runs and rolls.

It's a sidewalk plow and weighs too much to very good in unpacked snow except as a plow.


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## Snowtrac Nome

the terra track is not an improved version of the trackster  just an updated one the origional trackster had a ring and pinion that that ran 2 pumps that controled t motors the terra track has one big ass pump running 2 motors and the rear mounted motor and pump takes up all your cargo room


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## acudanut

It looks like a small tank, that should go anywhere. ?


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## acudanut

Found this one on E-bay>>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280608549159


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## redsqwrl

This Thread seems to be the best home for my post. 

I am a E. Central WI resident. I am a snowmobile club member. I like tracked vehicles.
I have done a quite of internet shopping and test drove a Spryte 1201 sunday night. it is a very good deal. I *need* a tracked vehicle to make travel on a frozen lake safer and easier. once in ten years we get bad ice and deep snow and getting out onto the lake 3 miles becomes a challenge. Our group of fishing buddies had a SW 48 in the past and sold it because it only seats one. it met all the needs but was not fun to be alone.
the Spryte is fully capable seats more than one person. will be easy to add space for more seating and has a blade with down pressure.
Here is the dilema. sno cats are slow. the advertised speed is 23 for a 1201. there is no chance that I was much over 15 at 3000 RPM.

I scoured the manufactures literature at the Safety one site and found two machines that caught my eye. one is or was finish the formatic four.

The other is the imp. What is the All terrain vs sno cat difference. the Thiokol Spryte was a machine. I wish it could have a spilt range like my tractor Road gears and work gears. 
Can Four rubber bands and steel cross ties stay together if I Gear up?
Heat and multiple seats are important.
I don't want to get much heavier than the advertised 3900# of the spryte.
Am I nuts?
I like the Explorer 1/2 track also but I am not sure that would hold up to towing multiple fish houses and pushing hard crusty snow.
Help a dreaming new guy.
BTW. I use a 8'6" v plow on a super duty ford with over sized tires aired way down to get through the snow instead of over it. The season is over and I did not fall in this year, but there are 17 trucks in the lake this year with multiple fatalities.

Mike in WI


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## Snowtrac Nome

for lake  running yu have one good choice bv206 a swamp sprite would be good to as would a weasel if you could find one that is sea worthy the bv 206's are heavy and expensive to run but it will do about 25 mph and float if you fall through  swamp sprite's are rare and weasels with tubs that arnt rusted out more rare the bv will also pull a whole line of ice houses i don't normaly recomend those money pits but they are the best for what you want to do


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## vtmtnbob

I looked at the max when i was looking, they do have advantages, like being narrow and you can sneak between trees pretty good. They turn on a dime and pretty simple in design.

i had decided to buy a Polaris ranger with tracks instead which worked ok. actually it worked pretty good in the summer but when winter really set in i got stuck a lot. its common to get two feet of  powder at my camp and when we did the ranger just was not cut out for it. what would happen is you would ride up on the snow and eventually you would have four tracks spinning. i tried a plow which helped but i lost ground clearance. the plow (working off the winch) sucked up to much battery power after a mile or so and then would not work and don't turn your machine off.

you had to be careful since if you went off the trail a foot you were stuck. i can go off the trail a foot with my st4 and i don't even notice. since i was more concerned with winter access i got rid of the ranger and replaced it with the st4.

i have thought about if i would have been better off with max but the st4 can hold a lot more people and gear without any trouble at all.


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## redsqwrl

Good Info. Why can the BV and ST4 go 25+ and Sprytes can not. is it a limitation of the track. Or a power demand that necessatates the low gear ratio.

I like the BV most of all the research I have gathered. Just $$$$ I don't want to spend. The max is not utilitarian enough looking. I will have to spend more time looking at it.

I figured buying a Spryte or Imp would be a good way to get involved learn and then trade for what I want in the future. they seem to hold their value.

Plan B:
I may attempt to build a Formatic Four type machine. I figure a quad track setup with snomobile rubber on it could tolerate some 25-35 MPH speed. Power plant will be a 1.8L VW motor. Transmission will be a Audi quattro set up. articulated setup to steer it. Kind of a Artic Quad Trac on steroids. the Thread with the explorer on snomobile tracks kind of gave me hope.

Thanks again.

Mike




i


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## alcesalces4

Any one have an idea how "affordable these are or have any experence with them? Definitly not the pretties but if it was truly affordable and worked I could live with it.
http://www.utvint.com/pioneer/pioneer.htm


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## Cletis

It's been  a yr or so, but I'm sure I called about the older version of that and working off a poor memory, I believe it was around 65K for the very basic model.

Cletis


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## Woody_1

Cletis said:


> It's been a yr or so, but I'm sure I called about the older version of that and working off a poor memory, I believe it was around 65K for the very basic model.
> 
> Cletis


 Those homely things kind of grow on a guy. 65K for the basic model is high. Another corporate leaner. I just filled out a quote on their site page, but it didn't work. I guess a guy could waste a call.


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## Trackfabricator

I wanted to revive this thread. I found it years ago and it fueled some thought for me, resulting in the dual track conversion. The concept is aimed at filling the gap between smaller units with inadequate flotation to actually function in deep snow, and a 100K price tag for a new cat. Please see the attached link to my other thread. Ground pressure on a 2 door Wrangler is in the .69 to .75 PSI region.

http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=75377


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## sheep_mtn

In the 15 years since this thread was started, some progress is being made. It appears we are beginning to bridge the gap between UTVs and snowcats. Litetrax seems to be headed in a good direction.









						STX-C - Lite Trax
					






					litetrax.com


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## rdynes01

L


sheep_mtn said:


> In the 15 years since this thread was started, some progress is being made. It appears we are beginning to bridge the gap between UTVs and snowcats. Litetrax seems to be headed in a good direction.
> 
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> STX-C - Lite Trax
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> litetrax.com
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> View attachment 141616


Litetrax may be an option for some but the 60-73K price point may be an issue....Bob


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## sheep_mtn

rdynes01 said:


> L
> 
> Litetrax may be an option for some but the 60-73K price point may be an issue....Bob


Ouch. At that point you’re close to the range of a used PB Scout.


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## sheep_mtn

While I’ve never ridden in a Litetrax, I can imagine that the short track length could lead to some uncomfortable pitching (fore-aft rocking). By way of example, Imps have significant pitch, and they likely have a longer track length than Litetrax. On anything but a completely flat trail, the pitch factor forces your travel speed to be much lower than you want it to be. This is probably most pronounced in places with soft snow and snowmobile moguls (i.e. Colorado, Utah). If you are traveling through unbroken snow across meadows, probably no big deal. But I imagine any well-traveled, un-groomed trail would get bothersome for anything but a short jaunt.


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## nikos




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## Trackfabricator

I'm not currently manufacturing these for sale this season, but I figured I'd share some footage and hear feedback.:
The Jeep is pretty self explanatory (Posted the prototype a few years ago). 
The smaller vehicle (Orbigo) is powered by dual 13 hp predator engines with CVT drives and dual reverse gearboxes (Neutral turns possible). I haven't made good snow footage with it yet, but may get some this winter.


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## DAVENET

Gotta wonder about the short foot prints (not only your Orbigo) of these 'mini' machines.  For example, at the 50 second mark, if you were to go left then realize "holy crap that's steeper than I thought" and go full stop to late, how far would you roll?


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## Trackfabricator

DAVENET said:


> Gotta wonder about the short foot prints (not only your Orbigo) of these 'mini' machines.  For example, at the 50 second mark, if you were to go left then realize "holy crap that's steeper than I thought" and go full stop to late, how far would you roll?


Yes, Orbigo definitely falls into the "toy" category, and you have to be careful with where you take it. It does have a very low center of gravity, and it is surprising stable for it size because of that. Comment was welcome, thanks for taking a look. 
Below is a video of our initial stability testing:


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## DAVENET

That is definitely better than I expected to see


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## rdynes01

Trackfabricator said:


> Yes, Orbigo definitely falls into the "toy" category, and you have to be careful with where you take it. It does have a very low center of gravity, and it is surprising stable for it size because of that. Comment was welcome, thanks for taking a look.
> Below is a video of our initial stability testing:


Now take any portion of that test hill sideways and really see what your COG is.


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