# The continuing saga of Niksons 1402 IMP sn 129



## turbinator62

Hi. I'm the guy that bought Niksons Imp. I will be continuing to make improvements to customize it for our use as a cabin access vehicle. So far I've added mirrors, removed the mechanical fuel pump and replaced it with electric, made a snorkel with a K&N filter and vented the crankcase to the engine intake. I added low mounted LED fog lights as we get a lot of winter fog in the Ellensburg Wa. area. I moved the battery from the passenger forward floor area to under the passenger seat along with the winch relay for more leg room on the passenger side. I removed the dash and will build a smaller one for more leg room on the drivers side. To overcome the noisy cabin, I installed a Sigtronics aircraft intercom and 2 Astrocom headsets (ebay) For rear passengers I installed 2 Honda civic seats and added seatbelts to all seats.

I removed both tracks as they were running very tight, even with the idler set at the minimum setting. One track had 53 grousers and the other 54. The track with 53 grousers (213 1/2") was in pretty bad shape but the other looked okay but was also tight (214 1/4"). I don't think Nik had a chance to rebuild them as he wanted to use the cat last winter. From what I can gather from the parts manual for the 1402, there should be 55 grousers with 4" pitch. That would make the belts 220". I have belting and will make a 220" track and see if it fits. I can always cut it back to 54 grousers and 216". From my calculatons of 1/2 the circumference of the sprocket and idler at the inside of the grousers (belt diameter) plus 2x the center distance of the idler and sprocket, the theoretical circumference should be 218 with the idler fully back, 220 at the center positon, and 222 with the idler fully forward. That fits the 55 grouser model at 4" pitch.

I could be completely wrong on this, so if anyone has first hand experience, I would appreciate any advice. It will be a few weeks till I commit to cutting and drilling the belts.

I'll have more as work progresses.


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## cloudcap

You have the same drop-center grousers that I have on my 1404 and I've got 54 grousers/track (both sides).  I think the 55 number applies to Imps with straight grousers, but that's an assumption on my part.

Ron


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## turbinator62

You could be right. I did see a 1404 with straight grousers that had 55. With straight grousers the pitch distance would stay constant as they go around the sprocket and idler, but drop center grouser pitch will increase as it goes around because the radius is bigger than the belt. Maybe I'm overthinking this. Is the pitch of the straight grousers the same as drop center when the track is laid out straight? 
The 1402 parts manual I have shows a drop center grouser and that there are 55. 
My plan was to make a track with 55 grousers at 4" centers and if it is too long I can always shorten it by one. 

I made one grouser already so I would have 54 per side. If the 55 grouser track works out I can make 2 more.


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## nikos

Turbinator wellcame to the party

From Nikson to Turbinator..... So
It  reminds me sometimes when i had already finished my  paintings, and i turn them over, so i did not need to see what i have done on those paintings,  for several days, and i start something else in my workshop.
When i turned over in two weeks i realize that my pictures are not finished and i have to do some other changes (Shapes - colors etc)
Sometimes we think that the parts of  a story just over,- happy end etc, but in the next minutes, from that story, something else has just began.  
Who says the opposite. This scaffolding procedure to improve an already  reconstractive  project, is a  another level for us to think, that nothing is Over.

Regards Nikos


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## turbinator62

Thanks. I do the same thing. After I build something, I'll go back months or years later and wonder "Why did I do it that way?"


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## turbinator62

I'll be at the cabin with no internet so I won't have any posts for a few days.


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## DAVENET

Congrats on an awesome rig and welcome to the zoo!

Now, what does the elevator(?) on your workbench go to?


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## turbinator62

The reason the snowcat is outside the hangar is that in my other life I am designing and building an 80% scale T6A Texan ll Air Force trainer. I was just ready to start riveting the horizontal stabilizer when I bought the cat.
I have the tail pretty much done, engine and prop are done as well as the landing gear, instrument panel, avionics and canopy. After riveting the stabilizer I'll start on the wings.
But that's a story for a whole different forum.


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## Nikson

nikos said:


> Turbinator wellcame to the party
> 
> From Nikson to Turbinator..... So
> It  reminds me sometimes when i had already finished my  paintings, and i turn them over, so i did not need to see what i have done on those paintings,  for several days, and i start something else in my workshop.
> When i turned over in two weeks i realize that my pictures are not finished and i have to do some other changes (Shapes - colors etc)
> Sometimes we think that the parts of  a story just over,- happy end etc, but in the next minutes, from that story, something else has just began.
> Who says the opposite. This scaffolding procedure to improve an already  reconstractive  project, is a  another level for us to think, that nothing is Over.
> 
> Regards Nikos



I hope now you guys see why I let my "creation" go to this guy... 

I was pretty sure it was going into the right hands, one way or the other...


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## cheeto




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## DAVENET

Nikson said:


> I hope now you guys see why I let my "creation" go to this guy...
> 
> I was pretty sure it was going into the right hands, one way or the other...


 
No kidding. 

And that rocks . . .


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## Snowtrac Nome

what kind of engine is that looks like some kind of turbine I would love tto have one in my snow trac I could run circles around Big Als  krusty with one of those. on the other hand they never move under their own power so I suppose you could walk circles around his krustys.


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## DAVENET

T-prop with an APU background?  Custom made or specialty item?

Way cool though . . .


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## Snowtrac Nome

custom made that's got my name all over it any thing to out run the krusty crowd. to be serious though that is one nice power plant hope he has a lot of fun with it.


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## nikos

Nikson said:


> I hope now you guys see why I let my "creation" go to this guy...
> 
> I was pretty sure it was going into the right hands, one way or the other...



Nikson......... 10 points


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## turbinator62

The engine is a Sundstrand T62T2A1 with a -32 power section. The core engine is the APU from a Chinook helicopter which was 95 hp. I upgraded it with the turbine wheel, diffuser, nozzle, and burner can from a T62-32 engine of 150 hp. The accessory drive, starter, alternator, fuel control mods, prop gearbox and prop are my own designs, manufactured in my hangar. I built about 45 of them over a period of 10 years, the last one in 2001. The supply of good cores dried up although you still see one on ebay now and then. I am finally getting around to building an airplane around the one I have left. 
The 10 gallon tank in the 1402 would keep this engine running for about a half hour, but it only weighs about 100 pounds so is well suited to a light aircraft.


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## Snowtrac Nome

also suited to a light snow trac but I suppose one would have to have a large fuel tank to get any distance


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## turbinator62

Not to mention that Jet fuel is over 5 bucks a gallon.


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## Snowtrac Nome

5? lucky you Heating oil #1 is 6.50 a gallon up here add the airport tax and delivery charge I bet you would be getting around 8 plus here if you had to run aircraft spec jet-a.


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## turbinator62

I got some more work done since the last post. This week I got the new dash made, and added some more carpeting to the interior. Put in a little tray so my wife has a place for her cell phone etc.

There was nothing wrong with the dash that Nik made, but I needed some more leg room so I condensed it down with smaller switches etc. I also added a fuel gage, ammeter and idiot lights. By putting the fuse panel under the dash, and concentrating the wiring on the drivers side, I was able to eliminate a lot of extra wire.

I pulled the pan off the engine and added a boss for an oil temperature probe and a new drain boss so the oil comes out straight down instead of sideways. (After getting oil down my arm and all over the place while draining it. I was not a happy camper )

It is supposed to rain tomorrow so I am going to bite the bullet and start on the tracks. I have all of parts and materials now to finish them so I have run out of excuses. I'll post that process as it progresses.


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## Nate b

That dash panel came it looking really good, hope to see in the woods sometime. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## DAVENET

Wow.   Very nice.


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## Snowtrac Nome

how did you do the lettering for your switches that looks good


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## turbinator62

I use AerogGraphics in Loveland Colorado. www.aerographics.com   Ph 1-800-336-9633. They specialize in aircraft graphics but can do anything you want. Call them and they will send you a catalog.


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## Snowtrac Nome

did you buy the lettering from them or did you have to send out the panel if I could get the lettering I'm interested if the panel has to go well I will have to do something else.


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## turbinator62

Just tell them what you want, and they will mail them to you. They are self adhesive and easy to apply. I had mine in a couple of days.


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## Blackfoot Tucker

Awesome Job!


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## Track Addict

I second the lettering comment.  Where can I get that for my dash next year?


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## turbinator62

Aerographics in Loveland Colorado.  www.aerographics.com They are self adhesive and easy to apply.


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## turbinator62

Before I rebuilt the tracks I had to make 3 new grousers since this cat had 53 on one side and 54 on the other. The parts list for the 1402 shows that there are 55.

The originals are made from 3/4" X .095 square tubing. I couldn't get .095 so I had to use .120. I used the old blacksmith heat and beat technique with a stock grouser as a pattern. 

All of the grouser clamps were also pretty chewed up so I made new ones from .187 X 1" 6061 T651 flat aluminum bar. There are 220 of them. After cutting to length and drilling, I ran a bevel mill down the sides of all of them to conform to the inner radius of the belt as it goes around the sprocket and idler.

In the next post I will go over how I calculated the belt length and rebuilt the tracks


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## Snowtrac Nome

turbinator you can't be married no way a wife would let you play in the shop that long with out wanting you to do stuff around the house.


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## turbinator62

Yep. 25 years now. The thing is, she never has to worry about a toilet that doesn't flush or a sewing machine that doesn't sew. I keep everything working. Plus a trip to Hawaii once a year. 

I'm off the snowcat this weekend though - social obligations.


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## turbinator62

I finally ran out of excuses not to work on the tracks. I have been putting it off until I had a workable plan.

My old tracks were about 213 3/4 inches long. One track had 54 grousers and the other had 53. They also ran vey tight on the idler even with the idler at it's rearmost position.

I was pretty sure that the pitch of the grousers was 4 inches but I wanted to be certain.

To calculate the grouser pitch (laying flat) you need to know the minor diameter of the sprocket, and the drop distance of the grouser.

My sprocket is a little over 17.6 inches diameter at the tooth root and the grouser drop is about 1.125" . So 17.5" - (2 X 1.125") = diameter at the outside of the belt = 15.35" Multiply this times PI 15.35" X 3.1416 = 48.22" for the circumference at the belt outer surface. Divide this by 12 teeth = 4.018" Close enough to 4" for me. You can also see that the circumference at the root diameter of the sprocket would be 17.6 X 3.1416 = 55.29" Divide this by 12 teeth and you get 4.6". This would be important to know if you were going to use a straight grouser on this sprocket. The drop center grouser has a pitch of 4.6" as the drop portion spreads apart as it goes around the sprocket, but is only 4" at the surface of the belt.

The second part of the problem is to determine how long to make the belts.

The parts manual for my 1402 says that the track has 55 grousers. So 55 X 4 would equal 220 inches. But I want to have a second means of verifying that before I cut my belting.

From the above I know that the circumference at the outer belt surface is 48". The belt only goes around half of that so that distance is 24". The same thing needs to be done for the idler. My idler is 12" in diameter. 12" minus 2 X the drop of 1.125 = 9.75" Multiply this times PI for the circumference. 9.75" X 3.1416 = 30.63" Divide by 2 for the belt wrap distance. 30.63 divided by 2 = 15.31"

The total belt length will be these two numbers plus 2 X the sprocket to idler center distance. My center distance with the idler at it's center position is 90 inches. So 2 x 90" + 15.31" + 24" = 219.31". That is very close to the 220" calculated from a pitch of 4" times 55 grousers and within the margin of error. 

Now my head hurts!

The belt will be 220 inches overall minus the lacing length of 5/8". So the cut will be at 219 3/8"

The next post will cover the drilling and assembly of the tracks.


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## Snowtrac Nome

I see you are a math wiz too glad some one likes it I had a hard time with it. I now know who to contact when I need to use math. your pitch turned out to be a small amount more than the 4 inches you called for. with new belts  having your pitch a little tight will be a good thing, because as the belts stretch your pitch will also spread out closer to that 4.18 you came up with.


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## turbinator62

The actual flat pitch of drop center grousers is not as critical as it would be with straight grousers. Drop center grousers will rock and adjust (within limits) to the root of the sprocket as they go around it as long as the track is tight. Straight grouser pitch must be very close to the sprocket pitch or they will ride up on the sprocket tooth sides with the potential to jump a tooth.


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## Snowtrac Nome

good point never thought of that


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## PrecisionMarine

Very nice work on your 1402. 
Sorry I'm late to the party or I'd have posted sooner. I went through much of what you did on my 1402 about 2 yrs ago, ended up with 55 grousers on mine as well.
http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=46353


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## turbinator62

Before I could finish the tracks I had to make two more grousers. I had made one already and knew it wouldn't be fun.
I used a length of 3/4 by .120 square tubing and bent it using a torch to heat it to cherry red. It was progressively bent to match the contour of an original grouser. After bending I cut them to length and bent up the shoes from 1/4 X 3/4 flat bar. These were then tig welded to the bottom of the grouser. After drilling the mounting holes I bent up the tire guides from 3/16 X 3/4 flat bar and welded them on. The tire guides need to have a rounded top surface so I contoured them with an angle grinder and finished them with a flap sander. Voila! Two new grousers. I'm glad I don't have to make more! It took me about three hours including cleanup. Foundry work is not my favorite.

Next post will be assembly of the tracks.


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## turbinator62

Track assembly. Maybe I can finally get this thing back on the ground so I can move it.

After cutting the belting I used Flexco #45 alligator lacing. That is what was on the original tracks. 

I followed the instructions in the lacing kit with the exception of using pliers to squeeze in a couple of prongs to hold the lacing in place so it wouldn't shift while it was hammered in. There is a rod that is used to keep the lacing from getting crushed while being driven. The first step is to drive it from both sides on a wooden block, then finish it on a steel plate or anvil. This will also peen the ends of the prongs slightly like a rivet to prevent them from coming out.

When doing the second end, make sure the lacing is positioned so the sides of the belt ends are aligned and to make sure that the lacing will align on both sides when the grousers are installed.

After measuring and marking the belt for drilling, I used a rotary punch I purchased from the belting company which worked real well. It is important to lube it with soapy water so it doesn't get hot. Don't use oil, that is not good for the rubber.


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## turbinator62

Final assembly finally!

The belts were measured, marked and drilled. I assembled them on a table with all new grade 8 hardware and new grouser clamps. This part actually wasn't too bad. It was nice to be able to stand up while doing the job but it still took about 5 hours. Thank God for electric impact drivers.

After assembly I mounted them on the cat. Those suckers are heavy! I can do it by myself but tracks for a bigger cat must be a real chore. Everything lined up well. Tension looks ok I think. The idler has a little bit of squish with 50 lbs of pressure in the tire. Both sides look the same. I think it is good to go!

I have to take a couple of days off from the cat to do a test and calibration run of a turboprop engine for an old customer. Then we will be at the cabin for a week.


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## Sno-Surfer

Great post and attention to detail! Really taking this one to the next level.


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## DAVENET

I can't believe you didn't sandblast & powdercoat all of those grousers before reassembling!  They are so unsightly compared to the rest of the cat!








Just kidding 
That's a ton of work you just knocked out in short order.


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## turbinator62

I thought about that too. I would have had to sand blast and paint 110 grousers just to have them ground up in gravel. I bought the cat for access to our cabin. We were using snowmobiles, but our road up the mountain is sometimes spotty for snow plus I have to make multiple trips with a cargo sled for all of the stuff my wife takes. You can't really take a snowmobile up because of the open areas of gravel and the drifts are too deep for a wheeled vehicle. The cat can do both. I will be keeping it in a cargo container at the bottom of the mountain on a friends property next to a road that is always plowed.

Retirement is GREAT!


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## turbinator62

Got a little more work done this week. The rear hitch was pretty bent up so I cut the old one out of the side plates and made a new one from an 18" piece of 3 -1/2" X 3/16 square tubing. I milled a square hole in both sides and welded in a receiver. Added a couple of tow rings as well. The step- bumper is from Harbor Freight. Also put on a couple of stick on led backup lights to light the step at night. They were about 5 bucks on eBay.


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## turbinator62

My 1402 didn't have a fuel gauge so I pulled the tank, cut a hole in it and silver soldered in a doubler for a sender after purging and filling it with water. Also made a set of side rails that can be used with the flat bed when the rear cab is off. It uses the same mounting holes as the cab and can be folded up for storage when not in use. The next project is to get the rear cab back on and make a back door.


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## turbinator62

Thought it would be a good Idea to put a carbon monoxide detector in the cab. They are only 20 bucks at Home Depot.


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## turbinator62

Spent a few days working on the back door. I wanted to replace the roll up plastic door with a steel and aluminum one made like the front doors. I even found a latch on eBay with the same key! I welded up the frame from 3/4 square tubing and used .040 2024 T3 aircraft aluminum I had left over from a previous project for the skin. The window is 3/16 laminated safety plate glass held in with polyurethane window sealant. The door is 36W X 41H.


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## turbinator62

This cat has a removable rear cab with a passageway between front and back. Nik used a roll up plastic cover over the openings which I retained for use when the cab is removed and the cat is used as flat bed. Most of the time the rear cab will be on the cat so I wanted to seal the two together to prevent weather and small creatures from getting in. The joint is in 6 parts made from .020 aircraft aluminum and held in place with Velcro so there will be some flexibility between front and back but still be easily removable. Each section has a flange to shed water that may come down between the cabs.

The only thing I have left on my list is the engine cover which will be challenging.

Looks like it will be done in plenty of time for winter.


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## DAVENET

Crazy impressive.  Your improvements are going to end too soon (for us) since you already had a great platform to start from.  I can only imagine the build if you had started from a real piece of crap!

It's great to see true skills being put to use 1) to keep an old machine alive & 2) to give the rest of us ideas for our own machines.  This forum has certainly saved quite a few people from hacking their snowcats thru trial & error.

+1

David


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## turbinator62

Thanks for the compliments, but the real work was done by Nikson. You should have seen the cat when he bought it. You would have had to pay me to haul it away. He designed and built the entire cab, rebuilt the chassis and drive train and wired it in a matter of months, then used it all winter. He did all of that in about the same time that I have spent messing around with refinements I have made, and he did it in a small garage with hand tools to a high level of quality. I'm not sure I would have tackled a project that extensive.

Check out his forum http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=58427 to see what I mean if you haven't already. His documentation through this forum and other photos are what convinced me to buy it with confidence.


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## turbinator62

Lest anyone be under the mistaken impression that I actually know what I am doing, read this. I had the cat parked in front of the hangar to remove the rear cab so I could work on the fuel tank. When I backed up to put the cab back on, because of the slight slope on the ramp I engaged the clutch with the transmission in reverse before I got out to keep it from rolling forward. After bolting on the rear cab I got in and hit the starter. The engine started instantly and before I could do anything I backed into my hangar door. It didn't even slow the cat down. 

The damage wasn't too bad and is now completely repaired, (the cat wasn't scratched) but what a humiliating experience. 
I now have a clutch safety switch wired in series with the starter solenoid so it can't be cranked unless the clutch is disengaged.


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## Cletis

AHHHH,  sounds like one of my brighter moves!

Many years back I parked my field service truck in front of my garage after a 20 some hour work day/night.  Next morning went out, opened the door and started it while standing beside it on the driveway.  Must have been real tired the night before because I left it in gear (low).  It proceeded to drive through the garage door, while the auto crane went through the roof.  Quite a deal that was!!!

I had almost forgotten that brain fart!!!!!!  

Real nice work on the cat, by the way.

Cletis


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## Snowtrac Nome

Cletis said:


> AHHHH, sounds like one of my brighter moves!
> 
> Many years back I parked my field service truck in front of my garage after a 20 some hour work day/night. Next morning went out, opened the door and started it while standing beside it on the driveway. Must have been real tired the night before because I left it in gear (low). It proceeded to drive through the garage door, while the auto crane went through the roof. Quite a deal that was!!!
> 
> I had almost forgotten that brain fart!!!!!!
> 
> Real nice work on the cat, by the way.
> 
> Cletis


 
that reminds me of an incident at the motor pool where I did that with a duce in the yard. it started hit the one in front of it, which caused that one to start as it was left in gear, and that one hit a third which also started what a mess chasing them down to shut down all 3. that is why you always leave the shut down cable locked out when shutting down a multi fuel duce


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## JimVT

jogging the starter is handy while putting tracks on


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## turbinator62

Here are some pictures of the finished exterior. I had to pull the engine due to a rough bearing in the chain case so I am working on that now. 

The good news is that with the engine sitting on a dolly in the shop, it will be easier to fabricate the new air box to duct the hot engine cooling air down the tunnel.   That is the last major project I have left to do. Lots of geometry. 

Then just a few details and it will be done.

I'll post pictures on that as it progresses.


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## turbinator62

While changing the oil in the chain case I found a lot of metal and the oil smelled really burned. I pulled off the front bearing cap and race and it was totally trashed. I was afraid that there was also other damage. There was no option but to pull the engine. The gearbox cannot be removed from the engine in the chassis. Due to the front air inlet duct, I had to cut out the front cross member behind the engine to clear the drive shaft. Once that was done it was easy to disconnect everything and lift it out the door.

The good news was that the front bearing was the only thing that was bad. The other bearings, chain and sprocket looked good. I was able get a bearing on eBay for 22 bucks and a seal for 15. With gaskets the repair was only about $50. I love eBay.


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## turbinator62

This is the gearbox reassembly. I cut a keyway in the clutch shaft because I will have to extend it out to clear the air box which is 13-1/2 incheswide. I didn't want to ruin the original spline so I will machine an extension from 1-1/4 steel rod, broach a keyway in it and hold it on with a set screw. A new lever will be welded to the extension. It all went together nicely.

You can still see how hot the shaft got at the front bearing.


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## turbinator62

The Thiokol 1402 IMP was originally an open cab rig so having an air cooled engine was not a problem. When Nikson enclosed the cab, things got more complicated. He found that even in winter, he had to run with the doors open. He even added an RV roof fan and a large fresh air vent in front to get rid of the heat. It was my intention when I bought the cat to figure out how to duct the hot air (at least most of it) down through the tunnel and out the rear.

I was really dreading building the air box but when I had to remove the engine and rebuild the chain case due to a bad bearing it became much easier. The proverbial cloud with a silver lining.

The box is made from .040 2024 T3 aircraft aluminum, but it wouldn't have to be. I just happen to have a bunch of it laying around and I have the equipment to work with it.

I added a few rivnuts and nut plates to the engine to fasten the box to it. The holes in front are for defrost air vents to the windshield. I also had to make several baffles to block airflow from going where I don't want it. The exit area for the cooling air at the heads on the engine is about 60 square inches to open air. The area of the air box outlet is about 150 square inches. I should not have a problem with restricted airflow causing over heating.

With the gear case off I was able to make an accurate template for a bulkhead to block the air from going forward in the tunnel. This will be split horizontally at the centerline of the clutch housing and extend down to the belly pan just behind the rear engine mount. I will then fabricate a duct to force the hot air down and rearward through the tunnel. This will be screwed to the engine air box at the flange at the rear of the air box. The air box and duct will be insulated with engine compartment sound and heat insulation from NAPA.

I installed a carbon monoxide detector in the cab since there is always the possibility of an exhaust leak when an engine is running in a closed space. I think this would be cheap insurance on any of the cats with an engine in the cab. They can be had for 20 bucks at Home Depot.

The last two pictures are of the new floor over the fuel tank. The air duct will end at this point. You can see where I drilled out the rivets in the floor at the tunnel edge and replaced them with button head screws. This is where the air duct will fasten.

I have been sweating fabricating the air box for this cat since I bought it. I never really had any clear cut idea of how it was going to work. But once I committed to cutting metal and I could see how it had to go together it got easier, even though the work is tedious. I now have a pretty good idea in my head and just have to do it.

I'll have more as it progresses.


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## turbinator62

Just a few pictures from todays work. I finished the main air bulkhead that goes down to the belly pan behind the rear engine mount and machined the adapter for the clutch lever extension. I thought it would be a good idea to put a magnet on the chain case drain plug to collect any metal particles.

The engine is back in. While I had it out I also rebuilt the starter with a new solenoid and brushes.

This engine originally had a mechanical fuel pump which I removed and replaced with an electric one. I used the pump mount as a crankcase vent and plumbed it to the carb air intake. The crankcase was originally vented through the oil filler cap, which tended to create an oil mist in the cab. It now has a sealed cap.

I'll get started on the rest of the air box tomorrow.


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## Snowtrac Nome

you are doing a nice job of making that little Wisconsin a civilized little engine


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## turbinator62

More progress on the transition duct. I got the complex bends done and the bulkhead that goes down to the bottom of the tunnel to prevent hot air from flowing forward under the engine. I just have to make the right side panel and the top cover. Fortunately I didn't screw up any large parts, only small ones. 

I have some engine compartment insulation to put on the inside and it will be ready to paint. 

I am going to use a hand throttle mounted on the angled cover. This thing is more of a tractor than a car and with a governed engine I think a hand throttle would work better.

The bottom of the lower bulkhead will be retained by two angles riveted to the belly pan that will slip over and sandwich the bulkhead without the need of fasteners. It has a rubber seal on each side that contacts a frame member.

Another couple of days and this part of the job will be done.


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## Cletis

I used a hand throttle on my machine and I really like it.  Thought it would be much better than trying to work a foot pedal should I have the pacs on.

Cletis


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## JimVT

Your using sound/heat  insulating from napa on the engine. Did you do the same with your cabin?


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## turbinator62

The cabin interior is gray indoor outdoor carpeting from Home Depot as was done by Nikson. I glued it on with the brush on paste type contact cement made by Weldwood. I tried the spray on 3M 77 but the carpet fell off the ceiling when the cat sat in the sun and the roof got hot. I'm using 3M Yellow Super Trim Adhesive for the engine insulation. It is supposed to be good for engine compartments. I hope so, cause it costs 22 bucks a can. It is too expensive to use for the whole cab.

I see you live in Enumclaw. I live in Silverdale, but when the cat is done it will be used at our cabin north of Ellensburg.


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## turbinator62

My bench during the air box construction. I'm not usually this messy.


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## turbinator62

The final stages of the airbox and transition duct assembly. The insulation is glued in and the sections painted. I still have to make a new clutch lever that will extend out the duct and a hand throttle that will mount on the angled duct cover. The whole thing is riveted and screwed together with 10-32 button head screws and MS21059L3 anchor nuts.


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## nikos

Mathematics, Geometry, Design, Constructions, Functionality, Modeling, AND Shaping STRATEGIES - . -  METHODS in the 1402 IMP.

NIKOS.


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## DAVENET

You should see his paper swans!


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## Cidertom

The only imp that can pass a FAA airframe inspection.


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## nikos

DAVENET said:


> You should see his paper swans!



DAVENET You mean Origami SWAN

He is the ARTIST (Turbinator62) and you we are only saw something of what he is doing.
Not everything but...., There is so much talent here....... 

NIKOS


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## turbinator62

Cidertom said:


> The only imp that can pass a FAA airframe inspection.


My wife says every time we drive through Auburn Washington in our motorhome it sets off the radar at the Air Route Traffic Control Center. (It also has a lot of aircraft parts.)

I have been an aircraft mechanic for a little over 30 years. I retired as a jet engine mechanic 6 years ago. The problem is after a time that is the standard to which you do everything even when it may not be necessary. But I still enjoy going that extra mile to make things reliable and serviceable. There is nothing worse to me than breaking down.


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## turbinator62

nikos said:


> DAVENET You mean Origami SWAN
> 
> He is the ARTIST (Turbinator62) and you we are only saw something of what he is doing.
> Not everything but...., There is so much talent here.......
> 
> NIKOS


 
I thought NIKOS may appreciate this. Kind of a break from the snow cat. 
This is a pipe organ I built for our living room in 1990. My wife thought I was nuts. I used to be able to play it but I would rather turn a wrench than practice. Now my hands don't work too well so I wired it with MIDI so my computer plays it. (Better than I ever could). 

I love big machines of any kind.


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## turbinator62

Ok. Back to business. I started the final assembly of the air box and transition duct today. I had to make a new clutch lever so it would extend outside of the duct. It is now positioned comfortably right at the end of the seat arm rest. Notice the clutch safety switch. The reason for this is explained in post #51.

A little heat and bend was necessary on the shift lever to make it clear the duct in all positions.

I used a Dorman PN 924-5405 shifter boot that I got on Amazon.com for 22 bucks. It fits nicely over the shifter trunnion, but you will have to replace the trunnion pivot bolts with 7/16 allen screws with the end machined to a point and a 7/16 check nut (thinner than a standard nut). Make the set screws just long enough for the check nuts to lock them. The stock bolts stick out too far for the boot to fit over the heads. I had to use a boot to keep hot air from coming up through the shifter.

This boot would work on a 1404 too.

I went to town today to get new shifter knobs but no one had any so I made my own.

Hope to get the duct cover and hand throttle done tomorrow.


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## JimVT

turbinator62 said:


> My wife says every time we drive through Auburn Washington in our motorhome it sets off the radar at the Air Route Traffic Control Center. (It also has a lot of aircraft parts.)
> 
> I have been an aircraft mechanic for a little over 30 years. I retired as a jet engine mechanic 6 years ago. The problem is after a time that is the standard to which you do everything even when it may not be necessary. But I still enjoy going that extra mile to make things reliable and serviceable. There is nothing worse to me than breaking down.


 next time  you drive that road  give me a call.I live right on it milepost 9 first right is my drive.
i'll show you my pistenbully.
jim


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## turbinator62

I'll do that!


----------



## Bobmog

Your work certainly is top notch! Very impressive. I need to replace the fuel gauge sender on my 1404, would you mind giving me the part number for your new fuel sender.
Thanks, Bob


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## Snowtrac Nome

your work is top notch my jeep was once owned by an aircraft mechanic, and the same thing all rivets were equally spaced on the patch panels, and wire ties on the harnesses were also equally spaced it's a funny thing you are working so hard to keep the heat out of the cab when normaly every one around here works to keep it in.


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## turbinator62

Bobmog said:


> Your work certainly is top notch! Very impressive. I need to replace the fuel gauge sender on my 1404, would you mind giving me the part number for your new fuel sender.
> Thanks, Bob


 
Thanks for the compliments.

I used all Sunpro gauges that I got on Amazon.com and bought the gauge and sender together. Most senders are universal though I think. Amazon does not currently list a Sunpro sender but they have a Moeller [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Moeller-Marine-Electric-Sending-Tanks/dp/B000MTI15K/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1374087527&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=sunpro+gas+sender"]Amazon.com: Moeller Marine Electric Fuel Tank Sending Unit (6" to 12" Deep Tanks): Sports & Outdoors[/ame]

Ebay has a Sunpro which is more adaptable to different depth tanks http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Sunpro-...748?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3380e00b7c

Good luck!


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## turbinator62

dds said:


> your work is top notch my jeep was once owned by an aircraft mechanic, and the same thing all rivets were equally spaced on the patch panels, and wire ties on the harnesses were also equally spaced it's a funny thing you are working so hard to keep the heat out of the cab when normaly every one around here works to keep it in.


 

Thanks much. 

The little bit that I drove this cat convinced me that something had to be done about all the heat. It would be as though you were getting all of the radiator heat into the cab on a water cooled machine. The ducting will direct 95% + of the engine cooling air out of the cab, but the rest of the engine is still exposed. I provided vents to direct hot air to the windshield and into the rear cab, but I'll have to wait for winter to see how effective it is. If I need more heat, I can add more vents. If it is still too hot, There is a large vent on the front under the windshield, and a 12" RV ceiling fan on the roof which will move cool air through the cab.


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## Snowtrac Nome

you have to remember our out side temp can be as low as - 40 in the winter takes a lot of btu's to bring it up to 65


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## turbinator62

Finished the new belly pan today. I riveted on 2 flanges that are .050 apart to sandwich the bottom of the forward bulkhead. I bent an entry angle on both to make it easer to install. This will stop any hot air from flowing forward under the engine.

Also finished up the clutch lever where it exits the side of the airbox.

The hand throttle is a self locking unit from a propeller control. The governor on the Wisconsin has vey high return to idle force. I tried a simple lawn tractor throttle but it would creep back to idle unless the friction was set so high that it was unusable. This unit allows motion when applied from the lever, but locks if the force is applied from the cable end. I was originally a reversing type, so I had to make an adapter to pull the cable when the control is pushed forward.

I was not real happy with the rubber hose fuel line with all the heat in the airbox so I replaced it with a stainless AN 4 Aeroquip hose with fire sleeve. 

I think I'll pull off the exhaust manifold and wrap it with insulation like the exhaust pipe also. Every little bit helps.


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## turbinator62

Today I assembled and tested the new air box. IT WORKS! I ran it for about a half hour at max governor speed (2800 RPM No load) and the cowling was only warm to the touch. Before it would roast you out. There is good airflow out of the defrost vents but almost none from the back one that is intended to blow warm air into the rear cab. I used a manometer to check the pressure at the rear vent and it is almost ambient. This is actually a good thing because it means there is no back pressure on the cooling air. (I thought there would be a little) To correct this I ran a 2 inch scat duct up to the top of the engine to pick up the higher pressure air and that corrected the problem. I wrapped part of the exhaust manifold with insulation but ran out so I had to order more. It should be even better when the manifold is fully insulated.

There is now a flow of warm air out the back of the tunnel around the rear end. 

I will have to wait for winter to see how effective it is. There will still be a lot of radiant heat from the engine but I may have to add more heat vents.

There are a few more details I have to finish up and this thing will pretty much be done.


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## Snowtrac Nome

the scat tube works well for heater duct that was the ducting of choice for my snow trac heater tubes


----------



## Cidertom

With the engine so well buttoned up, have you given thought to a remote  extinguisher bottle?  I've been in an Imp that caught fire... no fun


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## turbinator62

I have a Halon bottle with a remote nozzle from a plane that I plan to use but I have to get it refilled. (Expensive) Fire is always a concern in a tightly cowled engine. That was why I went to high temp fuel lines and fire sleeve.


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## Snowtrac Nome

if you plan to Keep up with Bid Al and his kt-7 you're going to have to get a wet bar for that thing and some cardboard cut out chicks to prop up next to it


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## turbinator62

The air box is finished and all buttoned up. I wrapped the manifold with 1" exhaust tape. All I have left is to rebuild the brake system.


----------



## turbinator62

The next thing on my list is to fix a leak in the rear end. I had determined earlier that it was leaking from the input shaft seal. I ordered one from the good people at Spryte Improvement in Wallace Idaho. The seal is a common size, and easily available, but their price was as good as any and I believe we should patronize the people who are supporting our machines.
I did not want to have to remove the rear end from the chassis to do this, but the bearing retainer/seal housing cannot be removed due to interference with the rear end mount. Since the seal is bad anyway, I decided to allow it to get trashed as I drove the housing off the shaft at an angle.

I then determined how deep the new seal had to go into the housing in order to clear the splines. A seal driver was machined with a boss of the proper depth to seat the seal. I used a piece of 2- 1/2 " nylon for the job.

The new seal is somewhat thinner than the old one so it can be installed deeper in order to clear the shaft spline. That may have been the problem that caused the leak.

I can check that one off the list.


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## turbinator62

Both slave cylinders were leaking badly as is evidenced by the damaged paint on the rear end. Since there are no new cylinders of this type left in captivity, the only option is to rebuild them. After disassembly, both were found to have extensive corrosion inside. The pits were too deep to hone out. The only option is to sleeve them. New cups are available from NAPA, United PN 14451.

I ordered a 1 foot length of 1.375" .065 wall 4130 aircraft tubing. The ID is 1.245". 4130 is very close tolerance and resistant to corrosion. With a light honing it is ready to go.

The cylinders were chucked up and bored to 1.380". (A slip fit for the tubing) Two lengths of tubing were cut to about 3.400", deburred and a notch cut in one end to prevent blockage of the bleeder hole. They were then installed into the cylinders with JB Weld, a common high strength epoxy. Cleanup is done with rubbing alcohol before the epoxy cures. Should this ever need to be done again, (hopefully not in my lifetime) the cylinders can be heated to 350 degrees or so and the sleeve pulled out and a new one installed. 

The pistons were serviceable, but the aluminum cup retainers were pretty badly corroded so I machined two new ones from 6061 T651 bar stock.

Tomorrow I'll reassemble the brakes and replace the master cylinders.

This thing is almost done!


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## Nate b

The craftsman ship and abilities you have are phenomenal. Absolutely enjoy reading and seeing the work you are doing.


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## turbinator62

Thanks. It is my wish that posting on this forum will help other guys facing the same problems to find solutions. 

A side note: Right after I stated that there are no slave cylinders available I found these http://www.powerbrake-drivetrain.com/servlet/the-845/SLAVE-CYLINDER-WAGNER-/Detail by Googling FE 21637

At $534 each, the few hours and 20 bucks to rebuild the old ones still looks good.


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## Nate b

The craftsman ship and abilities you have are phenomenal. Absolutely enjoy reading and seeing the work you are doing.


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## nikos

*Check up* Operation in the 1402 IMP
SURGERY Treatment
Nikos


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## DAVENET

Nate b said:


> The craftsman ship and abilities you have are phenomenal. Absolutely enjoy reading and seeing the work you are doing.


 


I'm sure you are ready for it to end, but I think the rest of us are going to be sad about it!  I really do enjoy seeing these updates and your solutions to the problems.  After this, you are going to need to find another one to go thru to keep us entertained!


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## turbinator62

Thanks for the compliments. It has been fun posting the progress on this project. I don't know about doing another one but I plan to continue to post our adventures with it. I hope to haul it to its new home in Eastern Washington in a few weeks. if everything works out, I would like to go to the Snowcat Jamboree in Leavenworth Washington in January.

I hope to get back to work on the airplane soon. I think it is feeling neglected after 5 months.


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## turbinator62

When I rewired the cat I reused the fuse block that was in it. (first picture) The problem was it was too big and only had a single buss. It was kind of in the way down on the floor panel. So I took it out and replaced it with two 6 circuit fuse blocks I got on Amazon.com for about 5 bucks apiece. I divided them into a battery buss, accessory buss and ignition buss. The floor is now clear.

Sometimes you have to do it wrong to know how to do it right.

ON (IGN): Ignition, fuel pump

ACCY: Wipers, search light, gauges, intercom, winch, 12 volt outlet

BATT: High beam and low beam, fog and back up lights, dome lights, fan

The battery buss is hot all the time. The Accessory buss is hot when the key is in ACCY and ON but off while cranking. The Ignition buss is hot with the key in ON and while cranking but off when in ACCY.


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## anthonydoldd

Great job!!

This cat was a neat concept when you bought it but you have done a wonderful job completing the project.  Your engine shroud looks great!  I hope that it is the cure.  Watching Nixons videos it was quite apparent that the cab got awful warm when running.  It is always fun to watch these projects unfold and see the quality of the workmanship that members here have.


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## turbinator62

Thanks! The little bit I have driven it the cab has been way cooler inside. I hope it will be warm enough in the winter. I can always add some more vents if I have to.
We're used to going to our cabin on snowmobiles so just being in an enclosed cab will be an improvement.


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## turbinator62

Finished up the steering cylinders today. The final honing and polishing was done on the lathe.


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## turbinator62

One of the steering brake master cylinders was leaking. I had planned to rebuild them but after disassembly found them both to be unsalvageable. The bores on both were very badly corroded. Fortunately, I found two new Wagner PN MC 36313 master cylinders on eBay for $80 each. The castings were a little different than the original but I was able to mill them to accommodate the steering levers. The webbing on top of the unit interferes with the lower part of the steering lever and must be narrowed to clear it. 

I want to thank all of the people who have done this before and posted the part numbers and sources for these hard to find parts. I would still be trying to figure this out if it weren't for this forum.

Now I just have to fill it with fluid and bleed the system. Just a couple of small details left and it is DONE!


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## Nikson

Looks great as always...


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## turbinator62

Thanks NIK. Had it not been for the great work you already did, I probably would not have undertaken this. You designed one of the best looking cats around, (IMHO) and your documentation of the rebuild gave me confidence that it would be a good buy. 
I can't wait to see what your next project will be.


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## turbinator62

I got the brakes filled with fluid this morning, and they work great. Nice and solid. Got everything buttoned up, then I started going into snowcat withdrawal. What do I do now? So I put in a cup holder to ease the letdown.


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## turbinator62

Pictures of the completed project.


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## JimVT

Now it won't snow this winter.


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## Short bus

JimVT said:


> Now it won't snow this winter.


 

That's not funny I spent
 hours sitting in my cat last fall looking for clouds


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## turbinator62

I drove the cat about a mile today in hot weather up the airport taxiway and back. Everything worked good. The cab did not get much above ambient temperature with the hot air vents closed. With them open there is a good amount of hot air for defrost and cabin heat. With the engine running, the air box barely gets warm. It gets hot when you shut the engine down from radiant and convective heat but you can still lay your hand on it. In cold weather I think it will be just right.

I pulled off the engine cover to give every thing a good look and retorque the manifold nuts. It should be good to go!

How long till winter???


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## turbinator62

Had some free time so  built a cargo sled for the cat. It is dimensioned to be able to carry 3 Rubbermaid 18 gallon containers. I didn't want to make it too big for weight and storage reasons.

Now we can carry even more crap to the cabin.


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## turbinator62

Forgot the pictures of the sled.


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## Snowtrac Nome

t problems I see is you should have put a swivel into the hitch or used a conventional pintle hitch and your ski stance is kind of narrow. craftsmanship is however a-1


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## turbinator62

There is enough play in the hitch to tilt over 45 degrees each way. The sled will be used on a road that is mostly packed snow from other cats and snowmobiles, so I'm not too worried about that aspect since my cat travels at a blistering 15 mph (or less). A pintle hitch would be just too big for the size of the sled.

Indoor storage considerations dictated the width. I've also got a Harbor Freight receiver platform that we can use too, but that adds weight to the cat chassis.


----------



## anthonydoldd

Very nice!!!  This cat looks great and even better is that fact that it is functional.  Great job it is really fun to see these projects come together.


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## JimVT

what will happen is your sled will track in the cat tracks and will tip some. are you skis the same as your track width?
jim


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## Snowtrac Nome

for what he is using it for I believe it will work fine but being used in my conditions over un improved trails or broken up sea ice it would take a beating the old folda sleads were only good for about a year around here


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## turbinator62

The skis are the same width as the inner edges of the track. It should ride straddling the high point made by the rear end. I used to tow one like this behind a snowmobile. It worked ok but took a beating due to the faster speeds. I now use a plastic tub type for the snowmobiles.


----------



## turbinator62

Heading down to the sand dunes in Coos Bay for a week or so. I built several dune buggies 20 years ago and still have 2. They have an 18 hp v-twin Vanguard engine, torque converter drive, rack and pinion steering, 5.17 Dana differential and independent suspension. This is my wife's favorite sport. The fuel tank is made from two 1 gallon stainless steel salad dressing pots from a restaurant supply welded end to end. Kitchen supply stores have all kinds of cool stainless stuff you can make into something useful. I once made a turbine exhaust adapter from an asparagus steamer.



_Activities that do not include an internal combustion engine are not really a sport, just exercise._


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## Snowtrac Nome

that's cool I should put one of those together for my little boy who loved kirk's go cart so much


----------



## turbinator62

In an earlier post I talked about installing an engine fire suppression system. The engine on my cat is very tightly cowled and would pose a serious problem should a fire develop inside. I have a 2.5 lb remote Halon fire bottle but I decided that would be overkill. (Plus, they are expensive and can only be used for whatever they are plumbed to. I had plans to use it on my new plane which would be a more effective use.) The total volume of the engine compartment on this cat is very small. I also had a 1-1/4 lb Amerex Halon unit so I mounted it up over the windshield. In order to access the engine compartment, I made a receiver that mounts on the angled part of the air duct. It is about .875 diameter and about 1" long. One end is threaded 7/16-20 to fit the union. The other end is bored about .005" larger than the outside diameter of the extinguisher nozzle. I then bored an o-ring groove in it for an MS29512-014 o-ring. The groove is bored just deep enough radially to provide about a .010 squeeze on the extinguisher nozzle when it is inserted into the receiver. This prevents any Halon leakage into the cab. I used an AN 815-4d union to connect the receiver through the cover and to a 1/4 stainless tube and AN818-4J coupling nut and sleeve on the inside. The tube is bent to direct Halon into the carburetor area which is the most likely fire point. 1.25 lb of Halon is enough to flood the engine compartment and the tunnel. The initial discharge pressure of a Halon extinguisher is 125 psi.

This setup has the advantage of allowing the extinguisher to be used elsewhere if needed.

The best buy on a 1-1/4 lb Halon extinguisher is from Aircraft Spruce and Specialty http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/ps/fire_13/a344t.php This is an H3R A344T unit which is identical to the Amerex unit I have, and lists for $107.95. Amerex units are listed on ebay for $125.

About Halon: This is the best fire fighting agent known so naturally the EPA would outlaw it due to its ozone depleting properties. It has been illegal to make since 1998. All Halon available now is recycled and has gotten more expensive but can still be purchased in newly manufactured extinguishers. Halon 1211 is discharged as a liquid but turns to a gas rapidly. It is mainly used in handheld units so it can be directed at a fire. Halon 1301 is stored as a high pressure gas and is used in aircraft engine compartments and other enclosed applications.

I have always used Halon 1211 in my hangar and planes. 

Halon agents extinguish a fire by interrupting the chain reaction between the fuel and oxidizer. This makes them very quick and effective. Other agents such a dry chemical or Co2 only remove the oxygen and are cheaper but less effective. Dry chem does not lend itself to enclosed spaces like engine cowls. Halon also has the advantage of not damaging your equipment once the fire is out. It just evaporates. (Into the Ozone layer I guess)

There is a Halon substitute available called Halotron 1. It can be manufactured until 2020, is a little cheaper but from what I have read, it is about half as effective as Halon 1211 but still better than dry chem. (sodium or potassium bicarbonate)

This would be a very inexpensive and effective fire suppression setup for any of the 1402, 1404 or 1450 Thiokol's and LMC's or any cat with the engine in the cab.

I was planning on taking the cat to it's new home this week but I had a problem with my defroster vents. They were a little too close to the exhaust manifold and melted. (Plastic) So I am going to use a Peterbuilt Semi-truck cab side air vent (all steel) mounted on top of the cowling. I'm waiting for the parts and will have a post about it when I get it done.


----------



## Snowtrac Nome

the petrol powered bv 206's have a hole in the dog house like that with a little sticker over it you just shove the nozzle through the sticker and pull the trigger. I too like halon it also makes a killer degreaser. as an alternative I'm happy with co2, co2 has an advantage with diesel engines in that it will shut down a run away where as halon will react in high heat and pressure and create phosgene, a popular chemical weapon during ww2.


----------



## turbinator62

I took the cat up on the taxiway the other day for a little test flight. To my dismay I discovered that the plastic defrost vents I put in the front of the engine cowling MELTED!  A little too close to the manifold I think. Good thing I found this out before I took it over to the mountains. So I made a couple of covers for the holes and found a horse trailer vent on ebay that is all metal. I like this better anyway because it will deliver much more air right onto the windshield and is fully adjustable from zero to a lot. It can also be opened the other way to blow hot air into the rear cab. Another advantage is that after engine shutdown, I can open it to vent hot air out of the engine cowl as this is the high point of the cowl. The engine can then cool more effectively through convective flow. This is the same type vent that Nikson used on the front of the cab for fresh air.
I modified the vent with a lever so it can be opened from the top.

The current plan is to take the cat to our cabin on Friday the 18th. We have already had a little snow.


----------



## turbinator62

This is why we need a lot of defrost power in eastern Washington. We get a lot of ice fog in the Kittitas valley and Table mountain area. It will create a layer of ice on whatever it touches. It is a real problem when snowmobiling as it will coat your helmet visor very quickly. The snow in the picture of our cabin is not snow. It is fog that has frozen onto everything and created a natural flocking on the trees. Notice there is very little snow on the roof.

I threw in a couple more winter pictures just to help get in the mood.
The mountain view scene is from Lion Rock on Table mountain looking west to the Stewart range. This area is all burned up now from the Table mountain fire of 2012.

I plan to post a lot of winter pictures of the cat in use later. I just got a new camera. My old one crapped out.


----------



## Cletis

The pictures worked!   Puts me in the mood for lots of snow!

Cletis


----------



## Nikson

Now I'll have to definitely visit you with my DSLR, get some killer shots, as well as do some aerial with my quadcopter & GoPro...


----------



## turbinator62

Took the cat to the cabin a couple of weeks ago and test drove it up and down the mountain on 6 November. Everything works as designed. No leaks. The temperature was in the 30's and the cab was comfy inside. The engine cowling is working as planned at keeping the cab from getting too hot. Engine temps stayed normal. There is plenty of heat available for defrost and cab heat on the colder days. We rarely have temps below 10F so we should be ok.

We only got about a half inch of snow so I only got to drive it on gravel. We'll be back on Thanksgiving so I'm hoping there will be some snow then. I am keeping it in a friend's shipping container at the bottom of the mountain at the end of the plowed road.

Hope to get some snow pictures soon.


----------



## turbinator62

This is our miserable excuse for snow. These pictures were taken on 29 December. Last year at this time we had 2 feet! I would like to drive this thing a little bit before we go the Snowcat jamboree!


----------



## JimVT

ALRIGHT, you got a vintage  license!!
 Just build or buy a newer machine and this light snow happens.


----------



## Snowtrac Nome

looking at those pics I saw one of those old fwd gmc motor homes in the corner of the frame. are you planning to make an urban assult vehicle like the one in stripes?


----------



## turbinator62

That is a 1976 GMC motorhome that I completely restored a couple years ago. It has a remanufactured 455 olds engine upgraded to GM tbi fuel injection and about every moving part replaced, rebuilt or modernized. We use it all the time and have a lot of fun with it.
Our GMC club has a rally about every 2 months. It is one of my favorite vehicles to drive and I have to be careful to not get a speeding ticket. I have never had the throttle on the floor. It is like a 12,000 lb. hot rod with plumbing.


----------



## nikos

Hey Turbinator62



turbinator62 said:


> That is a 1976 GMC motorhome *that I completely restored a couple years ago*. It has a remanufactured 455 olds engine upgraded to GM tbi fuel injection and about every moving part replaced, rebuilt or modernized. *We use it all the time and have a lot of fun with it.*.



I think that you forget to complete this edition. THE SNOW Motorhome GMC, to use it ALL the time in the winter + the 1402 1MP.

Sorry about the sketch, I make the lines and the colors in few minutes.
You know what i mean ok.

regards Nikos.


----------



## turbinator62

If I did that, I would have some 'splainin' to do to my wife!!


----------



## turbinator62

We just got back from the Snowcat Jamboree in Leavenworth Wa. yesterday. There was no snow but everyone still had a great time. We hung out in the parking area with good friends, good food and plenty of adult beverages. The hotel even let us have a campfire in the parking lot. 12 cats made it this year.
Check out more pictures at http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=61614


----------



## turbinator62

FINALLY!!! We got about 2 feet of snow at the cabin in the last 2 weeks and 6 inches while we were there. We actually have more snow now than normal. We made it the 2 1/2 miles up the mountain ok, but the 1402 with 30 hp is a little slow. Some of our hills are pretty steep, and combined with deep snow requires low gear. Still, we got all of our gear up in one trip, as opposed to 3 or 4 with snowmobiles. We were warm and comfy on the trip down in heavy fog. The defrost and wipers work great. There were some clutch issues, something went wrong with the locking dogs and I had to hold the clutch lever continuously by hand. I'll fix that when I bring it home this spring. I may also try a set of springs with a higher arch to give the cat more ground clearance. All in all, it did the job I needed it to do.


----------



## JimVT

it is good to see snow on it. Thinking back many years I remember a spring  tied to our handle.


----------



## Nikson

I did put in a new clutch disc, and had it pop out at the beginning few times, but kept adjusting it to the point where it stopped popping out.

Higher arches on the springs?  Why do you want more clearance, these seem to float over snow fairly easy...


----------



## Nate b

Looks awesome. I rode my snomobile by that area on Friday to see if I could spot you and say hi. But I didn't see the cat anywhere.


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## Northcoast

Can't think of a better cabin access machine! Thanks for the pictures.


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## turbinator62

Nikson said:


> I did put in a new clutch disc, and had it pop out at the beginning few times, but kept adjusting it to the point where it stopped popping out.
> 
> Higher arches on the springs? Why do you want more clearance, these seem to float over snow fairly easy...



I adjusted the clutch about three times but it kept popping out of gear when under load, or uphill. The last time I adjusted it, the adjustment hit the limit, and something popped inside and wouldn't lock at all. It was still drivable by holding the clutch handle back. I am guessing that the locking cams were worn out and finally broke. I'll pull the engine when I get it home this spring and fix it.

We get a lot of heavy wet snow in our area, especially after a warm spell. The rear end is so low that it has to push a lot of heavy snow under the tub, which uses a lot of power, and this rig doesn't have much to spare. There are springs with the same width and center distance available from SD Truck Springs for 20 bucks http://www.sdtrucksprings.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=331 with a 2" higher arch which would really help matters. They are 1/4 inch thick as opposed to 3/16 but I think I would remove the short helper and just use the two layers. I bought a couple already and will try them when I get it home. I would have to machine new bushings with a 1/2" hole but that is no big deal. This would also increase the approach angles on both ends and tighten the track. New spring above, old one (without top two layers) below.


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## turbinator62

Nate b said:


> Looks awesome. I rode my snomobile by that area on Friday to see if I could spot you and say hi. But I didn't see the cat anywhere.



Our cabin is on the west side of currier canyon in the Sun East area. We're kind of off the beaten path south of the Wilson road. We were there from the 20th to 25th.

I didn't try to go up in the National Forest due to clutch issues. Hopefully we can get together another time.


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## Snowtrac Nome

turbinator have you thought about about lining the bottom of your imp with hdpe to slicken the bottom up. it is some thing I have looked at with the snow trac, but our wet snow season is so short I just cant seem to justify the expence


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## turbinator62

The problem is the rear end hangs down about 2" below the belly pan and creates a dam. It adds to the overall drag unnecessarily. It is also a problem when backing up in untraveled snow. Most other cats I have looked at have considerably more ground clearance than this one. The sink in fresh snow is more than the clearance by several inches so any increase will help.


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## Snowtrac Nome

that is going to be a lot larger problem in wet snow than dry sugar like I usually operate in.


----------



## PrecisionMarine

turbinator62 said:


> I adjusted the clutch about three times but it kept popping out of gear when under load, or uphill. The last time I adjusted it, the adjustment hit the limit, and something popped inside and wouldn't lock at all. It was still drivable by holding the clutch handle back. I am guessing that the locking cams were worn out and finally broke. I'll pull the engine when I get it home this spring and fix it.
> 
> We get a lot of heavy wet snow in our area, especially after a warm spell. The rear end is so low that it has to push a lot of heavy snow under the tub, which uses a lot of power, and this rig doesn't have much to spare. There are springs with the same width and center distance available from SD Truck Springs for 20 bucks http://www.sdtrucksprings.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=331 with a 2" higher arch which would really help matters. They are 1/4 inch thick as opposed to 3/16 but I think I would remove the short helper and just use the two layers. I bought a couple already and will try them when I get it home. I would have to machine new bushings with a 1/2" hole but that is no big deal. This would also increase the approach angles on both ends and tighten the track. New spring above, old one (without top two layers) below.



Jeff, thanks for all the great photos, good to see you're having fun with your Imp.
I think you're on the 'right track' with springs, the original 3/16" thick leaves don't seem to be adequate even on a stock Imp, and yours has quite a bit more weight added. When I first rebuilt my 1402 I had the main leaves re-arched and added new secondary 1/4" leaves. Even that wasn't quite enogh, as it's sagged about an inch in the 30 years since then. I'll be interested to hear how these springs work for you, and how they affect track geometry and tension.
Keep up the fine efforts!


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## turbinator62

Thanks. I'll post the mods to the springs in a couple of months. I won't be able to bring the cat back to my shop until late April.


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## turbinator62

While at the cabin we got about 6 inches of new powder snow. Before we left I brushed off the windshield and a lot of snow collected between the grill and winch. Didn't think much about it. The defrost vent was still open from the trip up. You can see where this is going. When I started it up, all of the snow that was in front of the grill and that had filtered into the cooling air intake came out of the defrost vent and created an instant blizzard INSIDE the cab.  Needles to say that item will now be on the preflight checklist!


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## sno-drifter

I don't know why snow vehicles that have a top speed of 10  or 20 mph need to have windshields that lay back for Mach 3 speeds. Here is a machine that we modified thirty years ago. The "Bassackward Sno-Cat" still runs fine and the visibility for the six way blade is great. Clearing the wind shield is not necessary unless there is wind. The wiper does not get much use. Looks ugly, works fine. Easy to load as the pontoons are right where you can see them.


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## Snowtrac Nome

the Antarctic snow trac's were also equipped with frost free wind shields a forward sloped windshield would look pretty cool on my 2100 and make getting in and out a lot easier I always seem to get tangled up in the knobs in the overhead console


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## DAVENET

That may be the craziest looking Tucker yet.  Can you post up more pics of that and the story behind it?


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## Northcoast

What DAVNET said !


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## JimVT

no need to turn around in that one. thanks for showing it.


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## turbinator62

I got the new springs for my 1402 IMP today. These are a good 2" taller than the originals and are 1/4" thick rather than 3/16. My cat is heavier than it was stock and one of the original springs had broke. Ground clearance will also be improved. (Stock spring is in front.)
I got them from SD Truck Springs. They were only 21 bucks each. http://www.sdtrucksprings.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=331 
They would work on the 1400, 1402, and 1404 IMP They come with 9/16" id bushings which have to be replaced with 1/2". I will machine them from 1" delrin plastic.

We just got back from Hawaii on the 15th, on the 16th my computer crashed, and on the 17th I got sick with the flu. What a week! Feeling better now and using an old laptop.

Hope to bring the cat back to the hangar in the next week or so and "Git er done!"


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## Nikson

So, more or less these should last you a life time, and be just perfect considering the extra weight of the cabs on the cat.

You assuming that you will get another inch of clearance as well?  They are higher arched, are they not?


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## anthonydoldd

I was considering the torsion axle conversion but for my use of my cat this is probably a much more suitable solution.  I think I will order these as well when the cab comes off for paint and then these springs will go on as well.  please take some before and after measurements and share the height you gain.  I would think it would be in the neighborhood of 2".

Thanks for sharing!


----------



## jp11

That's my concern as well... will that small lift give me not enough track?

To be honest.... I haven't even looked at the track adjustment.  I'm ASSUMING that the front small idler wheel has a rough adjustment on it.

In my defense.. all of my efforts have been removing my C4.  It's headed for rebuild as soon as I get home.

JP


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## Snowtrac Nome

looking at them they look like they are going to make for a rough ride. they look like short little trailer springs


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## turbinator62

anthonydoldd said:


> I was considering the torsion axle conversion but for my use of my cat this is probably a much more suitable solution. I think I will order these as well when the cab comes off for paint and then these springs will go on as well. please take some before and after measurements and share the height you gain. I would think it would be in the neighborhood of 2".
> 
> Thanks for sharing!


 
Hi Anthony. The new springs are way stiffer than the stock ones. I may end up taking out the top leaf. We'll see. If you aren't in a hurry to do it, wait and see how mine works out. I should have it done by the end of May. I also have to pull the engine to replace the clutch. I'll take lots of pictures.
It should give a good 2" of increased lift which I could use in the heavy wet stuff we get here sometimes.
When I rebuilt my tracks I went with 55 grousers rather than 54 with the lift in mind. I figured I could always shorten them if necessary. I have a pneumatic idler at max forward position and 50 psi. (It should be 80) It did tend to slip in the turns this winter. A rough trigonometric guess would be that I would have to move the idler back 1" or maybe not at all in my case. Total cost for the springs was about 200 bucks with shipping.
One concern I have is that the higher arch will result in a center distance increase when the spring is depressed, with the posibility that the two center tires could touch. I don't think they will because these springs are way stiffer. We'll know soon.


----------



## turbinator62

Snowtrac Nome said:


> looking at them they look like they are going to make for a rough ride. they look like short little trailer springs


 
That's pretty much what they are. Compared to the Snotracks and the 1450 (5 1/4" leaves on 10 wheels) the stock 1402 and 1404 springs are WAY light (3 3/16" leaves on 4 wheels) when adjusted for vehicle weight and wheel count. The slight lift will also put more weight on the bogies and off the solid rear sprocket (no suspension) which tends to run on the ground on a 1402 and drop center grouser equiped 1404. 

I do know the lighter springs have been known to break. The best way to find out is to try it.


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## turbinator62

The post above should read (3  3/16 leaves on 8 wheels)


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## turbinator62

I got the spring bushings machined today. These are made from 1" diameter Delrin. A 3' piece of stock was enough. The eye in the spring is a nominal 7/8" but as you can see, the 9/16 id bushings that came with the springs were made from 7/8 stock and have tape wrapped around them to keep them tight. So the new bushings were machined .890 OD, .500 ID and 1.770 long. They were easily driven into the eye with a hammer, Then reamed with a .501 reamer. Plastic tends to distort when press fit, so the hole was finish reamed after assembly. The axle on the 1402 is a 1/2" bolt.
Not much more I can do till I get it home.


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## PrecisionMarine

Jeff, it's inspiring to see such meticulous and well thought-out work. Thank you!


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## turbinator62

I got the cat in the hangar this week and partially torn down. The wheels and springs are off. I am going to replace all of the wheel bearings since they were a little rough. Found enough bearings to do all of them on EBay for 50 bucks.

While adjusting the brakes I had quite a surprise. The transaxle on the 1402 is mounted on trunions and can rock side to side. While working on it I pushed down on one side and the left brake line broke in half! Whoa! The last time we drove it to the cabin we were 2 bumps away from having no steering or ability to stop.

The old brake lines were in pretty bad shape so I replaced them with Aeroquip Teflon stainless braided hoses and AN-4 stainless swivel fittings. I machined the inverted flare part of the banjo fitting with a -4 MS porting tool and tapped it for 7/16-20. I used a 90 on the left and a 45 on the right. It should last till I'm dead. Had this not happened in the shop that may have come sooner than I expected. I should have inspected this more closely last year. If you have a 1402 or 1404 with this type brake line I would really suggest you check it very thoroughly. When the transaxle rocks there is a focused bending moment on the small diameter tubing section of the brake line. Eventually it fatigued and broke.
The swivel fittings are much stronger in an application with motion.

After the brakes were done I started the engine and checked the brakes out. I had had a problem with the clutch on the last trip. With the engine running in 4th gear I applied both brakes to try to kill the engine. The wheels stopped and the engine grunted a little but kept running. The clutch is REALLY bad. I think some of the lack of performance was due to the clutch. We're lucky we made it back from the cabin. I have a complete new clutch assembly but the engine has to come out to replace it. I'll try to get going on that this weekend. When that's done I'll get the new springs on and see how the track fits.


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## Nikson

Great job... Great Job...


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## turbinator62

I got the new clutch in last weekend. The old one was slipping real bad. I was lucky to have found a complete new-old stock clutch assembly on ebay for about one third the price of new. When I got it back together I was able to easily stop the engine with the brakes in any gear.

At first I could find no good reason for the clutch disk to have worn out so fast. It was literally down to the rivets and the adjusting ring was at its limit. Nik had replaced the disc when he rebuilt it last year. I know he had had to adjust it several times as did I. On close inspection of the old one I think I found the explanation.

The Wisconsin WC280 clutch has 3 lever actuated cams that press on an adjusting ring with great force to apply pressure to the disc. The pressure plate on the old clutch had one cam and actuator that had been so hot that they were blue. Plus the face of the pressure plate was worn in the area of the hot cam. This is a wet clutch and the oil was totally roasted as well. The cat only had about 8 hours on it since I changed the oil.
At some point the hardened steel pin that the cam lever rotates on had been replaced with a spring pin, but only that one. The other 2 still had a stock pin. The lever with the spring pin had very little play, but the other two vere very loose with a lot of axial play. The adjusting ring is slightly springy, but not enough to make up for the difference in wear on the cams. My theory is that the tight cam was the only one applying full pressure to the disc. Only a small percentage of the disc area was actually making full contact with the housing and pressure plate and was unable to absorb the full torque of the engine. Consequently it slipped, a lot of heat was generated and the disc wore out quickly.

I am more confident that the problem is fixed now that there is a rational explanation for the failure.

I did get the inner springs on today but I am waiting for grease seals to put the bogies back together with new bearings. You can see how much heavier and more arched these are than the old springs. The old springs are about the same size and thickness as the ones on my neighbors golf cart. My cat is also heavier than stock with the full cab, seats, equipment etc.

We're headed to the cabin for Memorial day for a week. I should have the parts to finish it when we get back. Then it's back to work on the plane.


----------



## turbinator62

I got the new springs and bogie wheels back on today. When I tore the wheels apart, all of the wheel bearings were running loose. The bearing preload is adjusted with nuts on the axle tubes, but there is no way to lock them in place. I drilled them all for an 8-32 set screw to keep them tight once adjusted.

At some point in this cat's past, two of the bogies were replaced with wheels that are little different. The wheel bead is about 1/2" wider resulting in the tire being wider in the side wall. This caused the tire to rub the springs. When I tore it down, both wheels were on the left rear, and had spacers between the springs and axle tubes. I moved the heavier wheels to the left and right front bogie positions and re-drilled the spring locating hole for more width between the springs and added two thick washers on each side of the axle tube which also required a longer bolt. (10") I did this on all wheels to keep them in line with one another.

You can see that these springs are higher. When I get it down on the tracks, I'll re-measure the distance from the bottom of the rear end to the ground. It was 5 inches before, and should be about 7 now.

Compare the arch in the new springs with that of the last picture in the previous post.


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## turbinator62

I am sorry to say my big idea is not going to work. Usually I am pretty good at anticipating problems that a modification will cause, but I missed this one. I installed new springs with a higher arch in order to achieve more ground clearance. What I didn't consider that as the wheels go lower, so does the top track. So low in fact that the tire guides hit the frame members that the springs are mounted on. That's bad. I considered installing an upper idler or a guide but finally threw in the towel and went back to the original springs. I rearched the old springs and doublers to get them all the same. You can see the difference between the stock springs and the higher ones in the pictures.

That time and money is down the crapper.

Any way, it is all back together and ready to go back to the cabin.


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## Nikson

well, that sucks... 

some more experience earned here...


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## DAVENET

That does suck.


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## turbinator62

Well, the forum came within about a half mile of having a 1402 Imp listed in the for sale page.

The Snag Canyon fire started on Aug 2 by lightning and quickly spread to 13000 acres. Fortunately for us the efforts of fire and air crews and a change of wind stopped the fires westward advance about 1/2 mile from our cabin. Unfortunately for many of our friends the fire destroyed their cabins and all of their timber, out buildings and equipment. The area literally looks like the surface of the moon with black toothpicks sticking up. One friend lost his cabin, a Spryte snowcat, backhoe, and 20 acres of timber. My cousins cabin had fire within 50 feet but was hit by 4000 gallons of fire retardant from a DC-9 and survived.(It is now pink). One family lost 4 cabins. It was a very scary couple of weeks.

The last picture is from our deck. A D-9 cat cut a fire line and a DC-9 tanker laid a strip of retardant down which stopped the fires westward advance. You can see red retardant near the two buildings on the left. There were about 10 helicopters, 4 MD-87 tankers and a DC-10 working at various times.

I had my snowcat at home in the hangar for maintenance and had not yet taken it back.

My heartfelt thanks to the many firefighters, tanker and helicopter pilots working in hazardous conditions and 100 degree heat to get this under control.


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## DAVENET

That is close.  And it still looks very dry in that pic.  Glad it all worked out ok for you!


----------



## JimVT

I didn't realize your place was that close. 
at our forest service meeting lastnight they said we had a fire and no manpower to put it out. all resources were at your location. after 200 acres it burned out.
now for the rain.
 retardant does brighten things up.
jim


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## Nikson

Good to hear all went well...


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## Cidertom

Happy to hear your cat isn't being listed for sale.  We only have about another month of this fire season to live through.  

On the Corvallis, Oregon  fire last friday (9-5-2014), we were pulling units from 60 miles away to staff the fire or back-fill stations.  Even with that I needed another 5 units and 20 firefighters on my division to do the job right.  Lucky for me, I "got away with it". But it meant that we had to let the main body of the fire go by and protect the structures.  Our area is so lucky that we are not still not on that fire.  

CT


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## Snowtrac Nome

turbinator would it be possible to go with a larger diameter tire to get the clearance you are looking for


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## turbinator62

The 4.80-8 is about the limit. Any bigger and the tire would hit the cross frame.


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## DAVENET

Just thinking out loud here, while typing, looking at this. You obviously still have all of the parts on hand for your retrofit suspension. Going back and swapping it again would be a pain in the ass, but you are getting better & quicker at it each time. 

 Is this possible:

 Cut out the top leaf on your spring packs.  With that cut out, your total thickness at the crossbar would only give you 1/16" additional clearance (for upper guides) over your old ones (2 x 1/4 vs. 3 x 3/16).  But it would also soften up your new springs enough so that when it was sitting on the ground that upper clearance would increase even more.  The two remaining leaves in that pack will probably still have more torsion than the original 3 leaf pieces.

 Does that make sense?

 David


----------



## Alaska Snow Cat

Some cats have plastic guides on top of the frame to keep the track from hitting. The Pisten Bullys I have use a plastic wheel with no real axel bearing that just rotates when contacted. Depending on a lot of different factors in temps, moisture content and depth of the snow, Ice and snow will build up in the frame area and keep the tracks higher off the frame too.

Great pictures btw. I am surprised how light duty the axel assemblies are, as well as the whole cat, and would imagine pre trip inspection and maintenance is very critical to keep it reliable.


----------



## turbinator62

DAVENET said:


> Just thinking out loud here, while typing, looking at this. You obviously still have all of the parts on hand for your retrofit suspension. Going back and swapping it again would be a pain in the ass, but you are getting better & quicker at it each time.
> 
> Is this possible:
> 
> Cut out the top leaf on your spring packs. With that cut out, your total thickness at the crossbar would only give you 1/16" additional clearance (for upper guides) over your old ones (2 x 1/4 vs. 3 x 3/16). But it would also soften up your new springs enough so that when it was sitting on the ground that upper clearance would increase even more. The two remaining leaves in that pack will probably still have more torsion than the original 3 leaf pieces.
> 
> Does that make sense?
> 
> David



Hi Dave. I did try removing the upper leaf. That only raised the wheels 1/4". The problem is the new springs have a much higher arch than the old, with a lot of the arch in the curvature at the ends. I could de-arch them a little, but because of the radius, the center to center distance increases and puts the center 2 tires and the front tire to idler too close together. I should have studied this a little closer before I tried it. Thiokol pretty much designed it to be what it is. Not much room for modification without major redesign.

 To address Alaska Snow Cat, I did think about rollers or guides, but by the time you get 2 rollers in there, plus the support brackets, it puts the track very close to the floorboards. At that point I gave up and went back to stock which is what I should have done in the first place.

 Yes this cat is small but that is what we needed. We use it for the 2-1/2 mile trip on a traveled snow road with 4 people and all of our gear from a metal storage container at the end of the plowed road to our cabin. It is easy to store and trailer and navigates our narrow roads easily. Just about every moving part on it has been rebuilt or replaced now. All in all its a nice little machine and Nikson did a great job making the new cab. We don't take it into remote areas. We have snowmobiles for that.


----------



## Alaska Snow Cat

turbinator62 said:


> Yes this cat is small but that is what we needed. We use it for the 2-1/2 mile trip on a traveled snow road with 4 people and all of our gear from a metal storage container at the end of the plowed road to our cabin. It is easy to store and trailer and navigates our narrow roads easily. Just about every moving part on it has been rebuilt or replaced now. All in all its a nice little machine and Nikson did a great job making the new cab. We don't take it into remote areas. We have snowmobiles for that.



No doubt your Imp is very nicely done by both you and Nixon. I had never seen the actual axel assemblies on those early Imps and was surprised how they were assembled. I think one of the biggest issues keeping more people from using snowcats is the difficulty of transporting them which is a lot easier with your cat. Happy trails.

   Randy


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## turbinator62

Took the cat back to our cabin this week. Hope we get more snow this year than last. 

I got to looking at the spring assemblies some more. I think I can re-arch the springs to get about 1 more inch of lift without the tracks hitting the cross frames. This cat has 3ea 3/16 leaves. A 1404 has 4 leaves. My 1402 probably weighs about the same as a 1404 now with the cab and custom work. When I bring it home next spring for maintenance, I think I will get some spring stock from Gitt Spring in Seattle and make a helper for each assembly. That should get the suspension about the right height and stiffness for its weight.

I should have done that this year but hadn't considered adding a leaf. Plus I got discouraged after finding that the new springs wouldn't work.


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## turbinator62

More pictures from the fire. This was a Spryte I think.


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## turbinator62

I got the additional leaves for my springs today. I won't be able to install them till next spring when I bring the cat home for maintenance. They were $148 from Gitt spring in Seattle including shipping. They are 12" long.


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## turbinator62

It is shaping up to be another pathetic snow year. These pictures were taken on new years eve at 3000 ft. We have about 1 inch at the cabin which is at 3700 ft.


----------



## Nikson

That is sad... 

I guess you can bring that thing down south to its motherland and join me on a run... 

We drove up to the hills today, at 4000ft we had good 12in hardpack with a bunch of soft stuff on top.  Still doable in a stock 4x4 with good tires.

Lakes were frozen pretty well, just enough to run around for the kids and do some icefishing... 

Dont give up - its on its way...


----------



## tomelroy

If you dont get snow soon, blame it on the bill gates weather machine.


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## Snowtrac Nome

we aren't much better here I took the cats back out to the storage yard out of the city limits to avoid property taxes and there they will sit until we get some snow coverage


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## DAVENET

8" of wet on Thanksgiving and nothing until the 4" this morning.  It then proceeded to piss down sleet & rain all day, so looking out right now at a nice thick coating of 1.5" crap.


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## Nojeeep

Outstanding workmanship. Sorry if I missed it, but how did you letter the dash panel. I'm always equally amazed by the little details. I love the clean work and attention to detail.


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## turbinator62

I use AerogGraphics in Loveland Colorado. www.aerographics.com Ph 1-800-336-9633. They specialize in aircraft graphics but can do anything you want. Call them and they will send you a catalog.


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## turbinator62

I actually made it to the top at the Leavenworth Snowcat jamboree. Slow but sure. Took me 2 hours up and 1-1/2 hours down. I think there were about 16 cats this year. Snow was slushy and temps were in the 30's but we had a great time. Many thanks to Nick, Marco, Jim VT, Jinn and everyone else for making this a memorable trip.


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## Nikson

Great shots, seems like you guys had fun!


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## turbinator62

I had to bring the cat home for service after the Snowcat Jamboree in Leavenworth. I had a sticky throttle cable to fix, so I decided to go ahead and upgrade the springs as I had planned to do this spring. The weather here has been in the 50'S so might as well do it now. Hopefully will get some snow and I can still use it this winter.

Last year I had tried to install new springs that were heavier and had about 2 inches more arch but found that the upper track guides hit the cross frames due to the wheels being lower. So I removed all of the old springs, reached them up about 1/2 inch and added a 12" long X 3/16 thick leaf to the top This should give me a tiny bit more ground clearance and a little heavier suspension to compensate for all the extra weight of the custom cabs.

First picture is of the old spring with 3 leaves, second is the re-arched spring with 4 leaves and the 3rd picture is the side by side comparison.

Height to the top of the old was about 3", to the top of the new is about 3-3/4"


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## turbinator62

I got a new toy a few weeks ago. It is a NEW HERMES engraving machine of about the same vintage as the cat. So I couldn't resist making a data plate for it.


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## redsqwrl

That is pretty cool.

Love the Old school Type set.

I used to work at a newspaper...... 

A real newspaper


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## Track Addict

Looks like you just created a market for vintage custom tags!  Sign me up please


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## Manlig

Cool! i want one!


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## Nojeeep

Is your machine for hire?


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## turbinator62

If you really want one, contact me through private mail with your requirements and I'll see what I can do. I have a number of colors (black, blue, red, gold and silver as well as several woodgrains. The largest letter I can make is 1/2" and the smallest is 1/8". Something similar to mine would be about 20 bucks I think.


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## turbinator62

Been awhile since I've been on the forum. I've been out of commission since May. The Dr. found a tumor on my back the size of a ham sandwich that was shorting out a nerve bundle and messing me up pretty good. The tumor was benign but left a big hole and I haven't been able to do much for a while. Driving me crazy. I'm just this week staring to feel like I may get back to normal someday. So with all of this sitting around doing nothing I was rereading my thread about the bad clutch. While looking at the picture of the old clutch assembly the problem is right there. If you look at the adjusting ring, you can see cracks adjacent to the holes. The ring is what provides the spring pressure to the clutch disc when the cams are engaged. The "pop" I heard when I was adjusting the clutch at the cabin was probably the 3rd crack breaking. The cracks would reduce the pressure on the clutch disc allowing it to slip. 2 cracks were probably already there and combined with the bad cam pins caused the clutch disc to wear out in one season. The old clutch assembly is probably 50 years old and well fatigued. The cat has a new one in it now so it should last another 50. 

That's what happens when you have too much time on your hands.


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## sno-drifter

Welcome back Mr. Turbinator. I am so happy to know that you are on the mend. Nice that your "time out" was when there is no snow.


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## jp11

Wondered where you had gone this season.  Glad to hear you are on the mend.

JP


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## turbinator62

None of this was life threatening, just real inconvenient. I still have a numb spot on my butt about the size of a tuna fish can, but I guess it's better to have a numb ass than a numb skull or numb nuts.

Hope to head over to the cabin in a couple of weeks. I haven't seen the snow cat since May.


----------



## turbinator62

My wife and I drove the Tin Can (1990 Geo Tracker) over to Leavenworth Washington on 9 Oct. I wanted to drive up the roads we went up in the Snowcats during the Jamboree last January. What took me 2 hours and seemed like 20 miles in the snowcat turned out to be 6 1/2 miles and took about 30 minutes in the car. The first picture is where we had the tent set up for the picnic. The second is "AJ" hill. This is where AJ broke an axle and rolled backwards into another cat that was sitting a little below where the car is. It is steeper than it looks in the picture.
Our plan was to drive up to the top of the mountain, then go back to Leavenworth for some good German food and a little shopping, then head back to the cabin. 
When I got back into the car to start it, I turned the key and......nothing. WTF?!!!! No click, no stutter, nothing. Why do these things always wait until you are in the middle of nowhere to happen?
So the wife and I had to push it and get it back on the road. I didn't want to go straight ahead, because just to the right of the picture is a cliff. Had to turn it to the right, push it through a small wash uphill and finally got it back on the road. (I'm glad it is light) Now it is coasting out of gear down hill with me hobbling along with my bad hip at the open door trying to jump in to roll start it. (Sorry, no video)
So I jump in, and it started right up. Whew!
I am convinced that this place has bad JuJu. Between AJ and me bad things happen here. Can we go somewhere else next year?
We made it back down to Leavenworth no problem, but couldn't shut the car off. I always wondered why Leavenworth has a McDonalds when there are so many nice restaurants in town. IT,S SO PEOPLE WITH BAD STARTERS CAN USE THE DRIVE THROUGH!
Now I really owe my wife dinner.
I had a new starter at the cabin and had it fixed in about 20 minutes. The solenoid burned out and was open circuited. It worked fine for 25 years. I just had the starter out last year to check it out. This falls under one of the "True and Secret Mysteries of Life" I guess.


----------



## Snowtrac Nome

maybe you should park like the old model t drivers did. they called it parking with one leg high.


----------



## turbinator62

I was going to do that, but my wife told me to get off the road and not block it. (like there was any traffic up there) After 27 years I know better than to argue. She now agrees that when in a remote area, ALWAYS PARK FACING DOWNHILL!


----------



## Snowtrac Nome

that's the one reason I keep buying shit with manual transmissions I stretched 25 years out of my original starter because I only use when I need it.


----------



## Aaron Tucker

how did you do the windows on this ?


----------



## Tye one on

You coming to the jamboree? I've lost your info.


----------



## turbinator62

aaron tucker said:


> how did you do the windows on this ?



Do you mean the car or the cat?


----------



## turbinator62

Tye one on said:


> You coming to the jamboree? I've lost your info.



We would like to. Since the surgery on my back and the bad hip, I have good days and bad days. We are just going to have to wait and see.


----------



## turbinator62

One of the things I forgot to include in my thread was the problems with heat on the Wisconsin engine that involves the carburetor. Even before I built the cowling, I noticed that there was always a smell of gasoline after shutdown. A closer look showed evidence of gasoline dripping on the top of the engine from the carburetor snorkel. I thought maybe the carb had an internal leak so I tore it down and checked it out but could find no problems. What I discovered was that the heat from the engine and exhaust manifold was boiling the gas in the carb after shutdown due to heat soaking, and it was draining out the drain on the bottom of the snorkel onto the top of the engine, WHOA! I found that was a common problem back in the day when these engines were used on corn binders and such but it is not cool on an engine that is inside a cab. 
The first thing I did was use a thick insulating gasket between the carb and intake manifold, which is part of the exhaust manifold casting. Second, I removed the drain screen and drilled and tapped it for 1/8" pipe thread and installed a 90 degree fitting with a long tube. A drain hose is clamped to the tube and runs to a bulkhead fitting made from a 3/8" bolt out the bottom of the tunnel. I put a cheapo fuel filter in line with it to keep crap from getting sucked into the carb when the engine is running.
Third, I made up a cooling duct that picks up cooling air from the engine shroud just behind the flywheel fan and directs it onto the bottom of the carburetor bowl. Problem solved and no more gas smell in the cab.


----------



## Helmsman38

turbinator62 said:


> My wife and I drove the Tin Can (1990 Geo Tracker) over to Leavenworth Washington on 9 Oct. I wanted to drive up the roads we went up in the Snowcats during the Jamboree last January. What took me 2 hours and seemed like 20 miles in the snowcat turned out to be 6 1/2 miles and took about 30 minutes in the car. The first picture is where we had the tent set up for the picnic. The second is "AJ" hill. This is where AJ broke an axle and rolled backwards into another cat that was sitting a little below where the car is. It is steeper than it looks in the picture.
> Our plan was to drive up to the top of the mountain, then go back to Leavenworth for some good German food and a little shopping, then head back to the cabin.
> When I got back into the car to start it, I turned the key and......nothing. WTF?!!!! No click, no stutter, nothing. Why do these things always wait until you are in the middle of nowhere to happen?
> So the wife and I had to push it and get it back on the road. I didn't want to go straight ahead, because just to the right of the picture is a cliff. Had to turn it to the right, push it through a small wash uphill and finally got it back on the road. (I'm glad it is light) Now it is coasting out of gear down hill with me hobbling along with my bad hip at the open door trying to jump in to roll start it. (Sorry, no video)
> So I jump in, and it started right up. Whew!
> I am convinced that this place has bad JuJu. Between AJ and me bad things happen here. Can we go somewhere else next year?
> We made it back down to Leavenworth no problem, but couldn't shut the car off. I always wondered why Leavenworth has a McDonalds when there are so many nice restaurants in town. IT,S SO PEOPLE WITH BAD STARTERS CAN USE THE DRIVE THROUGH!
> Now I really owe my wife dinner.
> I had a new starter at the cabin and had it fixed in about 20 minutes. The solenoid burned out and was open circuited. It worked fine for 25 years. I just had the starter out last year to check it out. This falls under one of the "True and Secret Mysteries of Life" I guess.



It won't be the same without you at the SCJ 2016. Speedy recovery hope you two by slight chance make it there.


----------



## turbinator62

Kristi KT7 said:


> It won't be the same without you at the SCJ 2016. Speedy recovery hope you two by slight chance make it there.



OK. You guys have shamed me enough. I just made room reservations for the 19th and 20th. We'll be there if at all possible.


----------



## turbinator62

We made it up to the cabin on the 27th no problem. I was able to make the 2.5 miles up the mountain all the way in 2nd gear. All temps were in the green. I think I finally got the slipping clutch problem solved with agressive adjustment. 
Last year at the Leavenworth Jamboree the track wanted to jump a tooth in sharp turns which was annoying. Last spring I added an additional leaf to all 8 spring packs for a total of 4 and increased the idler tire pressure to 70 psi which seems to have fixed that issue.
We had it stuffed with gear and there is about a foot and a half of snow with numerous drifts. The 1402 took it all in stride. I think I finally got it working the way it should with the reliability you need. My wife even commented on how much she enjoyed the ride and thats a good thing. 

We went snowmobiling yesterday for 3 hours. I rolled off the side of a drift into a shallow treewell and my wife did a face plant in the snow. We haven't ridden in 3 years due to a lack of snow and it was obvious. Had fun but we are both wiped out today. Getting too old for that crap. (60+)  
The cat is much more tame.


----------



## Cidertom

Turbinator: that's why I have a 'cat.  glad you got to enjoy it. Spectacular!


----------



## JimVT

you have some good solutions to your problems .I'm sure more will benefit from it.
we had one like it on our jd wire baler. it was crank start.
I have the small engine in my snow trac . so I also am in 2nd gear.
jim


----------



## 300 H and H

We had a 45hp Wisconsin V4 on a small self propelled Ag sprayer back in the day. It would never like to start when the engine was hot. We fought it, and never really figured out why. Now years later when it doesn't matter, I think I now know the solution.  The issue was, as Turbinator has found, boiling gasoline in the fuel bowl in the carb..

I remember how lots of heat would radiate back up around the intake, and it would take 20 minutes before you even bothered to try and restart the engine. Of course the engine was some what under powered for the task it had, and it was used in 80+ degree weather. We used it for several years and sold it to a neighbor who used it years more. The engine was still the original when the neighbor sold it. Their advertising claimed long life, and they give that..

Regards, Kirk


----------



## sno-drifter

I remember a Freeman hay baler with one when I was younger. My father and uncle had trouble starting it when hot. That Wisconsin V engine is responsible for my fine vocabulary even before I joined the US Navy.


----------



## turbinator62

My first experience with Wisconsin V4's was in the Air Force. They were used on MJ1 bomb loaders. The batteries were always dead so you had to bend over to hand crank them. I have a nice scar on my lip from one that started easier than I expected, released the crank on the upswing, and got me right in the kisser.


----------



## sno-drifter

turbinator62 said:


> My first experience with Wisconsin V4's was in the Air Force. They were used on MJ1 bomb loaders. The batteries were always dead so you had to bend over to hand crank them. I have a nice scar on my lip from one that started easier than I expected, released the crank on the upswing, and got me right in the kisser.


 

 Let's all be careful here, we do not want to turn this thread into "Here is the scar" I got from working with machinery. The lies will overload the intrweb.


----------



## turbinator62

300 H and H said:


> We had a 45hp Wisconsin V4 on a small self propelled Ag sprayer back in the day. It would never like to start when the engine was hot. We fought it, and never really figured out why. Now years later when it doesn't matter, I think I now know the solution.  The issue was, as Turbinator has found, boiling gasoline in the fuel bowl in the carb..
> 
> I remember how lots of heat would radiate back up around the intake, and it would take 20 minutes before you even bothered to try and restart the engine. Of course the engine was some what under powered for the task it had, and it was used in 80+ degree weather. We used it for several years and sold it to a neighbor who used it years more. The engine was still the original when the neighbor sold it. Their advertising claimed long life, and they give that..
> 
> Regards, Kirk



That's the advantage of the electric fuel pump. It primes the carb as soon as you turn on the key. You don't have to crank the engine over to get the engine driven fuel pump to prime the carb.


----------



## turbinator62

We made it back home from the cabin with no problems. The cat did everything we needed it to do. It was stuffed with everything we could get into the back of a Chevy Tahoe with the seats down. I actually had it in 3rd and 4th gear (down hill) and it surprisingly went faster than I was comfortable going (which is unusual for me). We did a little side slipping on an icy part of the hill but recovered no problem. I'm still learning how to drive this thing in different conditions. We had everything from deep snow, packed snow, ice, and drifts and I was happy with how it handled all of them. It actually does pretty good for only 30 horsepower. I even brought my neighbors 92 year old mother up to their cabin and she loved it!
Temps were in the single digits and low teens most of the trip. We were there 6 days. The cat started instantly every time I turned the key. Nik had put an Optima yellow top battery and a breakerless electronic ignition in it when he rebuilt it and I definitely think that is the way to go in a snowcat. 

The pictures are where we turn off the road down our driveway.

The only thing I am going to think about changing is the engine air inlet. With the outside air temps in the single digits, the max heater outlet temp I could get was 125- 135 degrees going uphill and about 100 going downhill, which was ok, but I would like the engine to run a little warmer than that. I cowled the engine in order to keep the cabin from getting too hot which was a problem Nik had, but I don't think he ever ran it when it was this cold outside. I was thinking about putting a manual shutter door inside the air intake duct to limit the amount of cooling air to the engine. (A servo driven thermostatically controlled one would be better but maybe overkill) Being this is an air cooled engine, there is no thermostat to control the engine temp like a water cooled engine. 
Something to think about for spring maintenance.
We are really happy we were able to buy this thing from Nikson. It sure makes getting to and from our cabin in winter a lot more pleasant and certain.


----------



## turbinator62

We made it up to the cabin again. Snow is mushy and temps are in the low 30's. With about a mile to go on the way up the dang clutch started slipping again. You could smell the oil being roasted. I had to make the last mile in low gear. I just don't get it. I have to adjust this thing every 10 miles or so which is a pain in the rear. This is with a brand new clutch assembly and disk.
This clutch is supposedly rated at 150 ft/lbs but the engine only puts out half that. Once adjusted it should last forever.
The clutch/chaincase on the Wisconsin engine is a separate housing from the egine itself. It has the clutch assembly, two ball bearings suporting the upper sprocket shaft and two tapered roller bearings supporting the lower output shaft. The manual calls for 1.5 qt of the same oil in the chaincase as the engine. I'm using 5w30 in both. The clutch is wet.
This thing was made in 1965 when clutch disks still had asbestos in them, and the best oils available were worse than the cheapest oils now. The new disc now is carbon metallic. My question is, are these newer products causing it to slip with regular engine oil.
My only idea at this point is to switch the chain case to ATF (Dexron or Mercon) 
It is made for automatic transmissions with ball and roller bearings and friction clutches and has a lower lubricity than engine oil which is made for hydrostatic sleeve bearings. 
Any ideas would be appreciated as I am running out of them. Marco?  Jim?  Pat?


----------



## Tye one on

Have you measured the pressure it takes to engage the clutch?


----------



## Cidertom

One other product to put in the list is the combined hydraulic/ transmission oil some tractors use. My JD uses low viscosity "Hy-Gard" which according to Deere is made for wet clutches, brakes, transmissions and general hydraulic use.  

https://jdparts.deere.com/partsmkt/document/english/pmac/4968_fb_HyGardsTransmissionHydraulic.htm

That being said, I still don't understand the slip that much.  Or rather it should have been slipping all along if it was an incompatible clutch material and oil.


----------



## turbinator62

Tye one on said:


> Have you measured the pressure it takes to engage the clutch?



This thing has an odd clutch set up. It uses a hand operated lever that pushes in a yoke which operates three cams. The cams press against an adjustable ring on one side and the pressure plate on the other. The ring has some spring to it and the cams will go over center when engaged. Its not like a conventional clutch as we know it with big springs maintaining a constant pressure as the disk wears. As soon as there is any wear, it gets looser and starts slipping which compounds the problem. I set it up to where I can just pull the lever back into the lock position. If you try to make it too tight, you run the risk of breaking the ring at the holes as you can see in the pictures of the old clutch earlier in my thread.
This system has been around for 60 years. Am I the only one with this problem?


----------



## ben2go

Newer automotive oils have friction modifiers which cause motorcycle wet clutches to slip and burn up pretty quickly.Maybe try a light diesel oil.They don't usually have friction modifiers.Anything with a label listing the oil as energy conserving has friction modifiers in it.


----------



## Cidertom

ben2go said:


> Newer automotive oils have friction modifiers which cause motorcycle wet clutches to slip and burn up pretty quickly.



We may have a winner!  If it were me, I'd try the hy-gard, it's made for wet clutches.  Don't know how long it would take to clean off any of the friction modifier on the clutch with just a change, or if it would require a change-purge-change cycle.


----------



## JimVT

motorcycle oil is the same way.  
on one of the old tractor forums they talk about bolting on heaver clutches.
jim


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## turbinator62

Thanks for the replies guys. I think I'll give the hy gard a try. Would it be available at a tractor supply?
The problem with this thing is the transaxle is 4 speed non syncronized. You can't shift on the fly. It is also so slow that It will stop before you can shift to a higher gear even if it was synchroed. So the only way to use a higher gear is to start out in that gear and ease the clutch in. I may have to change my technique and just start out at a lower rpm and engage the clutch quickly and try not to kill the engine. Driving in low gear all the time kind of sucks.
Nik put a new clutch in when he rebuilt it in 2012. When I got it the disk was down to the rivets after one season but the pressure plate and housing had issues which contributed to that. I replaced the entire clutch assembly in 2014 and have had to adjust it twice after only about 25 miles. That just seems excessive. It takes about an hour to adjust it with all the covers that have to be removed. More if you are in knee deep snow.
I kept the two old clutch discs and have relined them. I found some linings on eBay that were the right size and thickness for about 10 bucks each. They were made for Brushhog pto driven brush cutters as an impact clutch. They appear to be a fiberglass composite material. They look like organic type brake linings rather than carbon metallic.  Was able to drill, counterbore and rivet them to the disk with no problem. A new one from Wisconsin is 250 bucks and they don't sell replacement linings.
I soaked one in oil to make sure it wouldn't swell or come apart, but haven't tried one yet. You have to pull the engine to change the clutch so it can be an all day job or more.
Thanks for the input!


----------



## Cidertom

turbinator62 said:


> Thanks for the replies guys. I think I'll give the hy gard a try. Would it be available at a tractor supply?


If you want hy-gard look for a deere dealer.  should be one close:

http://dealerlocator.deere.com/servlet/country=US?locale=en_US

Some of the generic fluid might work, but I've had good results with hy-gard for 20 years, and don't want to experiment.  It's built for tractor transmissions and many of those (collar shift) have the same issue, you have to ride out the clutch to start in a high gear eg, no shift on fly.  

CT


----------



## turbinator62

Thanks guys. Now I have a plan.


----------



## Nikson

Great to see the 1402 out and about... Pleasure to know that all that laboring in the garage didnt go to waste if you know what I mean!  

Thinking I need to get my "crap" together and finish up the 1450 with a full cab on the rear, plus need a fan cowl on the engine (gets warmer than I want it) and some last steering/track adjustments... 

Althou, really tempted to go via big wheels and torsion suspension to get a smoother ride...


----------



## turbinator62

Cidertom said:


> If you want hy-gard look for a deere dealer. should be one close:
> 
> http://dealerlocator.deere.com/servlet/country=US?locale=en_US
> 
> Some of the generic fluid might work, but I've had good results with hy-gard for 20 years, and don't want to experiment. It's built for tractor transmissions and many of those (collar shift) have the same issue, you have to ride out the clutch to start in a high gear eg, no shift on fly.
> 
> CT



I picked up 2 quarts of Low Viscosity Hy Gard today. It was only $4/qt. I'll bring the cat home when the snow clears a little and I can get the trailer out. I think I'll pull the engine and inspect the clutch to see how much it has worn, replace it if needed, degrease it and put it back together with the Hy Gard. 

Thanks again for the advice!


----------



## turbinator62

ben2go said:


> Newer automotive oils have friction modifiers which cause motorcycle wet clutches to slip and burn up pretty quickly.Maybe try a light diesel oil.They don't usually have friction modifiers.Anything with a label listing the oil as energy conserving has friction modifiers in it.



Many thanks to Ben and Cidertom. I checked the can that I used for the chaincase oil and it is indeed energy conserving. This is also what Nik told me he used which would explain why the clutch wore out in 1 season for him.

I'll bring it home to the hangar in a couple of weeks and go through it and put in the Hy Gard. Hopefully I won't have any problems next season.

This is why I love the forums.


----------



## Cidertom

Glad to help. Keep us posted.  Do a quick shop job and bring it to Timberline this year. That should show if that is the trouble or not. Then you have all summer to tinker with it if it isn't.

Wish the tractors only used that much.  About 7 gallons in the bigger of the two and 5 in the smaller.


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## BearGap

What beautiful work!!


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## turbinator62

I finally got the cat in the hangar and pulled the engine. The oil in the chain case definitely smelled roasted. Removed the chain case and disassembled the clutch. The clutch housing had a lot of sludge and the disc was worn about .030 in thickness with a sticky goo that filled the rivet holes. This happened after only about 30 miles. This is most likely the result of using the wrong oil. (5W-30)
I have a relined clutch disc and will use JD Hy Gard oil in the case after I flush it out real good with solvent. I found some correct size linings on ebay that are made for Bush Hog pto driven brush cutters as an impact clutch. A pair is about 20 bucks as opposed to $250 for a new Wisconsin OEM disk. I had to drill and counter-bore holes for the rivets. The rivet heads are .050 deep on each side so that will provide about .100 total wear before it is down to the rivets. The last picture is the new disk.
I don't know when I will have it done. I'm going into the shop in a few weeks for a new hip. It has ceramic bearings and a lifetime warranty just like NAPA!
After that I may have to have back surgery for an old injury from a plane crash that is catching up with me. Time to pay the dues from a time when my balls were bigger than my brain.


----------



## PJL

Looks like you got it figured out.  Hope you have a speedy recovery.  And the cat too.


----------



## MNoutdoors RIP

Normally those PTO impact discs are not made to run in oil


----------



## JimVT

two overhauls this year I hope they both go good. keep us updated.
jim


----------



## turbinator62

MNoutdoors said:


> Normally those PTO impact discs are not made to run in oil



I was worried about that too. I had a lining that I drilled wrong so as a test I left it in a can of oil for a month then put it in my solvent tank to see if it would stay together and it did. That really isn't a dynamic test, but at this point I really don't have any other options. The disk that Nixon had replaced when he rebuilt it looked to be carbon metallic? as it had strands of copper or brass in it and was worn to the rivets after one season. It was a factory product. In that case the clutch pressure plate had a bad pin, cracked adjusting ring, and the wrong oil. Lots of variables.
The disk that came with the complete new OEM assembly that I replaced in 2014 looks to be organic (no metallic strands) and of the same composition as the PTO discs with what appear to be embedded fibers of some type. (Fiberglass? Kevlar?) It still experienced what I believer to be a lot of wear but with the only variable being the oil.
Brake and clutch lining material is available from some of the industrial suppliers (McMaster Carr) in various coefficients of friction but they are in sheet form and would have to be machined to size and don't specify whether they are suitable for wet applications.
I am hoping that using the new oil will solve the slip problems. It will be an experiment. If it doesn't work this time, I'll try something else. I've had the engine out 3 times now. I'm getting pretty good at it.
I had to take the engine out of my motorhome 5 times to get an oil leak fixed a few years ago. Turned out that the engine rebuilder hadn't resurfaced the crank seal journal. It was covered with corrosion pits. They made good on it though. I'm kind of a persistent SOB. That was the only way I could get laid when I was young. Sure couldn't do it on looks or charm.


----------



## turbinator62

Here are some pictures of the clutch facings. The organic one that I just removed has some cratering, probably from heat that delaminated the lining. The second photo is side by side, organic on the left and metallic on the right. The metallic one on the right is one that Nik put in new when he rebuilt it. He also gave me the one he replaced and it was the same type, but not worn to the rivets.
I'm going to do a little more searching to see if I can find bulk carbon metallic lining before I put it back together. Carbon metallic has a higher heat tolerance, but if the new oil keeps it from slipping, it won't get hot.
All advice is welcome.


----------



## MNoutdoors RIP

I think I would contact these guys as much wear as you have had in the past this material should help that. 



http://www.tribco.com/wetclutch.php


----------



## turbinator62

Wow. Thanks a lot. I'll give them a call.


----------



## MNoutdoors RIP

turbinator62 said:


> Wow. Thanks a lot. I'll give them a call.



No problem, we have used that material before with very good results they most likely would want you to send the plate in to them for lining there are producing many of the tractor discs with the internal teeth now.


----------



## turbinator62

I called Tribco and talked to a really nice guy named Gary. Very willing to help. Their linings are Kevlar and have a high temp rating with 1/3 -1/5 the wear rate of organic linings. I think this may be the way to go. Anything that will keep me from having too pull the engine again will be worth it.
Thanks!


----------



## MNoutdoors RIP

Did they give you a price idea? Just curious


----------



## turbinator62

Not yet. I'm going to email them pictures on Monday and see what they think.


----------



## MNoutdoors RIP

Copy That.


----------



## mtncrawler

It seems as though the friction lining should have slots grooved into it for oil evacuation. Could be off base here but that was my first thought.


----------



## turbinator62

That would seem to make sense. I'll ask the guy at Tribco about it.


----------



## turbinator62

MNoutdoors said:


> Did they give you a price idea? Just curious



I got the quote from Tribco on the clutch facings. 2 steel backed (.060) with bonded Kevlar facings (.065) are $115. They are on order. I will have to drill and counterbore them for rivets myself. They are cutting slots for oil escape also.
I'll post pictures when I get them.
Thanks again for the heads up.


----------



## turbinator62

I tried to get insurance for my cat today and they told me I need an appraisal. Is there any one here on the forums who is familiar with my cat who can do that or knows some one who can?
Thanks.


----------



## Snowtrac Nome

there is a few  out there who are dealers boggie and snow trans come to mind snow trans is in your general area


----------



## backroad explorer

Hello Turbinator62,
Sno-Trans is in Weiser, Idaho it's where Nickson bought the IMP. Very nice folks there. I have been following this thread for a while now since I found out My old IMP found a good home. I'm glad it turned out so nice. If you would like some early info on it let me know. I had it about 10 years before I sold it to Bill at Sno-Trans.

Brian Hamilton
McCall, Idaho


----------



## turbinator62

Yes, I would really appreciate any info you could give me on the IMP. Did you ever have any clutch problems? This cat is perfect for our use so if the new clutch and oil will solve the slipping problems, I will be a happy camper.
When I saw this cat for sale I knew it was what I wanted. Nik did a great job updating it and his workmanship is excellent. 
You can post to this thread or contact me through private mail whatever you prefer.
Thanks!


----------



## turbinator62

The UPS man delivered the new Tribco clutch facings today. So I jumped right on getting them drilled and riveted. They have a 1/16" Kevlar lining bonded to a 1/16" steel backing with the oil grooves installed. I countered bored and countersunk them to leave the rivet head .050" below the facing. This will allow for .100" total wear. Also, when it wears out, the clutch plates will contact the brass rivet heads while there is still .013" of lining left preventing contact with the steel backing plates and damaging the pressure plate. This is essentially the same rivet depth attainable with the standard linings, but easier and less fragile due to the steel backings.
The pictures are a step by step of the process.
I hope to get the engine back in tomorrow and see how it works.
Thanks again to everyone for the advice on this.


----------



## jp11

Just like seeing the work... you don't do anything half azzed

JP


----------



## turbinator62

One step forward, three steps backward. I put the engine in and got as far as tightening the engine mount bolts when I noticed a spot of oil on the floor. Crap!! I tightened the gearbox drain plug some more and it got worse!! So out comes the engine again. It seems there is a crack emanating from the drain plug to the gasket flange and up into the lower bolt hole. I always had a little oil in the belly pan but the new lower viscosity oil ran through the crack much easier. I have had problems with cracks in cast material near a tapered pipe thread before. A tapered pipe fitting can put a tremendous amount of radial force on a hole. Just like a wedge.
My solution was to grind out the crack, hit it with a torch to carbonize the oil in the crack so it doesn't affect the filler material. Then I used JB Weld to seal it up. I have had good results with this product on similar not structural applications. I also JB'b a stud into the lower bolt hole. To prevent this from happening again, I JB'b a 1/2" to 3/8 pipe reducing bushing into the drain hole. This extends the stressed part of the fitting outside of the cast housing. It is just a drain hole so a little smaller size is OK.
This process would probably work for for any non structural part of a cast housing with a crack at a bolt or plug hole.


----------



## DAVENET




----------



## turbinator62

It's all back together again. (Second time a charm) No leaks. This new clutch seems to be a little "stickier". Less pressure is required for engagement and that is a good thing. Probably due to a combination of the new oil and Kevlar clutch linings. Now I have to wait for winter for the real test. This is the 3rd time I have had to take the engine out. I'm getting good at it, but don't want to do it again.
Got the snowcat done so now I have to go in for a new hip next week. Pretty soon our Saturday pilots meeting will have enough titanium in the room to build our own SR-71.
Question-When you croak and you get cremated does your wife get the scrap value of your metal parts? Just wondering.


----------



## sno-drifter

I don't know about the scrap value, but my wife says "He who dies with the most toys is still dead".


----------



## JimVT

I would say no to your question
Question-When you croak and you get cremated does your wife get the scrap value of your metal parts? Just wondering

my dentist told me  someone stopped with a small amount of gold wanting to sell it. after questioning  he was told it was picked up after people were cremated .
this was before gold was legal to own.
I would bet no metal is in the remains.


----------



## turbinator62

I got these cool led lights on ebay for about 3 bucks. I put them on the back of the cat for back up lights. They are incredibly bright and self adhesive. You can also get them in red, green, blue and yellow.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Super-Br...proof-DC12V-/111980537797?hash=item1a128f67c5 
The cat is all done now so I will be taking it back to Ellensburg as soon as I recover from hip surgery.


----------



## wasatchjohn

Haven't checked on this thread in a while. I'm always impressed with your work (and the guy who did the earlier work).

Very helpful info on the clutch.

Just started de-constructing my 1402 for a full resto. 

Hope the hip heals up well!


----------



## turbinator62

Hi John. Looking forward to seeing the progress on your cat. Make sure you check the clutch ring closely for cracks. Mine had cracks at 3 of the holes and there were 2 one inch cracks in the radius between the OD and the cam face. New rings are available.

I'm home from the hospital but my hip was way worse than they thought. Bone on bone. it's taking longer to get mobile than I wished. Not much pain now but excruiating at fist.


----------



## BearGap

Let me know f you need a hand with anything. I'm only about 10 minutes away.


----------



## turbinator62

My wife is doing a good job taking care of me. I'll owe her a fancy vacation after this. I had all of my projects done before I went in so I can focus on getting back to normal. Give me a month or so and come on down. I'll give you a tour of the cat. I probably won't take it back to Ellensburg till later in the summer.


----------



## turbinator62

I'm 2 weeks out from new hip surgery. Doing better but bored out of my skull. About all I can do is push my walker around the house. UGH! 
I never got around to making a schematic of the electrical system on the cat so sat down and got that done. It may be of use to someone with the same requirements.
The diodes are used as blocking diodes. I wanted the tail lites and instrument lights to come on with any of the head lights. (High, Low, Fog) Without the diodes, a parallel hookup would result in all of the head lights coming on at the same time with any switch since they would feed back through the tail light circuit.
The blocking diodes in the windshield wiper circuit are needed because there are two wiper motors on one switch. The wipers don't run at exactly the same speed, so as they get out of sync, without the diodes on one motor, the park switch from one side will feed back to the other side and they will never shut off until eventually they both open the park switch at the same time. With the diodes, the right one will stop then the left.
The hour meter relay allows a single N/C oil pressure switch to run a low oil pressure light and an hour meter that clocks time only when the engine is running. 
I put in the manual breaker so that the entire electrical system can be disconnected from the battery when I leave it parked. A big marine or RV disconnect switch would work as well.
Feel free to ask any electrical questions. I'll be here.


----------



## DAVENET

You appear to have forgotten the circuit for the remote mount margarita mixer.


----------



## PJL

Very nice work.


----------



## turbinator62

DAVENET said:


> You appear to have forgotten the circuit for the remote mount margarita mixer.



I think that is Kristi KT7's claim to fame!


----------



## Cidertom

I trailer mine more than you do, but one I found worthwhile is isolating diodes on the tail turn signals and an umbilical to the tow trailer.  That way the cat's signals replicate the trailers.  The cats signals are in the face of following drivers,where the trailer mounted signals are almost on the ground.  I also did the back up lights. Very handy in the gloom of winter.


----------



## nikos

HEY Turbinator62

Great work ( the electrical wiring diagram ) as always.

Nikos


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## JimVT

good to see you back in the game.
when are we going to have a foot race?


----------



## turbinator62

I think my running days are over. Even when I was younger I couldn't run or jump worth beans. But I was always real good at falling down.


----------



## turbinator62

Do you think they would take my Imp as a trade in?

 The Ripsaw.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-9uzLBtMtY&feature=youtu.be


----------



## turbinator62

The problem with having a lot of time on your hands while recovering from medical stuff is you spend a lot of time on eBay. I found these mirrors for 20 bucks. They are for a Suzuki SV1000 motorcycle. 
I put a set of mirrors on the cat back in 2013. The problem is I park the cat in an 8' wide storage container. The cat is about 6 feet wide across the tracks and a little over 5 feet across the cab. Due to my ample girth, I have to get it as far to the right hand side as possible in order to get out the door and side step along the side to get out of the container. A skinny young friend once parked it in the middle. I had to go in the back door and climb over the engine and shifter to get in. He must think I'm thinner and more agile than I am.
The tracks are wider than the body, but not enough to keep from peeling the mirror off the right hand side driving through the door. (Been there, done that.)
These mirrors have an arm that allows the mirror to fold down to where it is less wide than the track so it can't be torn off. I put some index marks on it so it can be positioned to the same spot every time. Now I just have to remember to lower it .

It is also streamlined for high speed.


----------



## PJL

Those look very nice.  You will appreciate the streamlining at high speed.  Less turbulence buffeting the Imp.


----------



## JimVT

my snow trac has a Suzuki mirror .it has been holding up good. lots of brush marks on it. at a  closer look I see Kawasaki on the back side of it


----------



## Nikson

Hey Bud,

Great to see you still tinkering with it... 

I'm sure that between 2 of us, the cat got a new life for sure... 

Just to think about it, where it was when I first picked it up.....

Unbelievable...


----------



## turbinator62

Thanks Nik. 
We could call our work the 

*SILK PURSE MANUFACTURING COMPANY*
*SOWS EAR RECEIVING DEPARTMENT*

(I don't know if there is a similar term in Russian, but here we call it "Making a silk purse from a sows ear")

For anyone who doesn't know, this is what the cat looked like when Nik bought it. I don't think I would have undertaken the restoration. I usually tell people when I show them the picture that "you would have had to pay me to haul it away". 

Fortunately Nik saw the possibilities and had the drive to make his vision a reality. I'm glad I was able to buy it from him.


----------



## BearGap

My Russian friends at Boeing have a saying, "You only cut a dogs tail off once". If you have to go back again you will get bitten. In other words, do it right the first time. Nik definitely does it right the first time!

Dan
777x


----------



## turbinator62

Getting ready for winter. We took the cat back to Ellensburg after sitting in my hangar all summer. I had hip surgery in May and Spine surgery in Sep. so I should be ready to go when the snow flies. I am anxious to see if the new Kevlar clutch and gearbox oil work. 
I wanted to get it over the pass before the state starts salting the roads. I spent a lot of time this year on corrosion control.
Heading to Hawaii for 2 weeks. When we get back winter should be getting started.


----------



## JimVT

are you going to McCall in feb? 
jim


----------



## turbinator62

No, that's out of our range.


----------



## Tye one on

Aww come on. Just a hop skip from your place! Everyone's gonna be there, you gotta go!


----------



## backroad explorer

Turbinator you gotta come to McCall just so I can see Your's & Nicksons work on My Old Imp.
Between the both of you Gentleman you built my vision for the 1402.

I Applaud You Both Great Work!!

Brian Hamilton

P.S. Stop by the N.A.P.A. Auto Parts Store in McCall if you come to Town.


----------



## turbinator62

We would really like to come but I am just not comfortable towing it that far in the winter with a half ton truck.


----------



## Nikson

Both cats turned out nice, my 1450 seemed to find a new home as well here in Cali, another "cabin" access cat it will become.

New owner doesnt seem to be very mechanically savvy, but has the right funds to keep it right (in my opinion), so I'm glad it will go on and be preserved and my labor/work wont be wasted... 

I know that the IMP is fine while in your hands...


----------



## turbinator62

We made the run up to our cabin yesterday. We have about a foot of snow and the temps are in the high 20s. It looks like the clutch slipping problem may finally be solved. The combination of the Tribco Kevlar clutch disc and the John Deere Hygard oil did the trick. There was no indication of slipping. This morning I took the inspection covers off and the oil still smells fresh (not roasted) and there is no reduction of the clutch engagement force. This is after several trips up and down the mountain. I even had it in 2nd and 3rd gear. I couldn't do that before without the clutch slipping. It is finally working the way it should.
We had the rear cab so stuffed with gear I could hardly get the back door closed. I am a little appalled by how much gas it uses though.
I hope to get some videos and will post them later.


----------



## JimVT

I been wondering if you been out or still of at the islands. 
you still planning on skipping the Idaho party?
jim


----------



## MNoutdoors RIP

I'm glad it worked out for you. We have had good results with the Kevlar material.


----------



## wasatchjohn

Thanks for the update. Glad to hear your fix did the trick...duly noted.


----------



## Snowtrac Nome

well replace the wisconson with a Kubota diesel and watch the fuel milage double or replace it with a small turbin from an APU and cut it in half but than look at the performance gain from a turbin conversion.


----------



## turbinator62

JimVT said:


> I been wondering if you been out or still of at the islands.
> you still planning on skipping the Idaho party?
> jim



We are going to have to miss the McCall show this year. Just can't fit everything in. I thought when I retired there would be time to do whatever we wanted. Whoever said that was full of crap. Between disabled kids, elderly parents and our own medical issues, it seems like every day on the calendar is full.


----------



## turbinator62

Snowtrac Nome said:


> well replace the wisconson with a Kubota diesel and watch the fuel milage double or replace it with a small turbin from an APU and cut it in half but than look at the performance gain from a turbin conversion.



A T62 in this thing would weigh about 1/4 as much as the Wisconsin but cost more than the whole cat is worth. The 10 gallon fuel tank would last about a half hour. It would be impressive though. The exhaust would keep the snow melted.

The Kubota diesel would make a nice set up, but I'm just not able to take on a project like that any more.

It is slow, but I have also found that there is a fine line between slow and too fast in this thing. Especially going downhill.


----------



## Snowtrac Nome

just think how cool a t62 would sound while ascending a hill


----------



## Cidertom

Glad you found the issue. Sorry it cost so much to identify, but the rest of us know about the wet clutch and motor oil issue now.

I've always had good results with the hy-gard So that shouldn't trouble you again.

Take care, be safe.

CT


----------



## turbinator62

I want to give my heartfelt thanks to Cidertom, MNoutdoors, ben2go and mtncrawler for the advice they provided in my efforts to solve the slipping clutch problem. I have made 5 round trips up and down the mountain for a total of about 35 miles with no issues. The new clutch will get the cat going in any gear. It now will climb in 2nd and 3rd. Now that it is working the way it should, the 30 hp is plenty of power for what we are doing. A little slow climbing a steep grade, but we made the trip up in about 35 minutes. It would be about 10 minutes with a snowmobile, but I would have had to make 4-5 trips to haul up the same amount of gear and would have had to burn the same amount of gas. Not to mention being in a warm comfortable cab.
It would be real hard to maintain a machine like this without the wide experience of the guys on the forum. 
Thanks again.
 The last picture is a little blurry due to high speed.


----------



## turbinator62

I finally got some videos uploaded to you tube. This is my first time trying this. We'll see if it works. My cherry is popped! 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odqwbzxxtZI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udwCYNKvDQQ


----------



## PJL

Wow that thing runs great!  Nice videos.  You should think about a Machmeter and a pitot tube to get accurate speeds.


----------



## turbinator62

Now that the clutch is working right it actually moves along pretty good. A machmeter might work, but only with a 300 Knot head wind.

Now that I know how to do videos, Here is another short one. On the next trip I'll try to get some longer ones.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqrawCQwiF0


----------



## PJL

Nice,  the headsets are a must have.  I had a Sigtronics system installed in mine.  It's hooked into the 2 radios and has 4 headsets.


----------



## turbinator62

I'm using a Flightcom intercom with military Astrocom headsets, but I modified them with parallel 1000 ohm phone elements and amplifiers on the dynamic mics to convert them to civilian avionics compatibility. Got everything on eBay for about $100.


----------



## turbinator62

PJL said:


> Nice, the headsets are a must have. I had a Sigtronics system installed in mine. It's hooked into the 2 radios and has 4 headsets.



I see you are from western Washington. Where are you based?


----------



## PJL

We met in Leavenworth last year.  King County.


----------



## turbinator62

Have you used the cat on any rescues this year?


----------



## PJL

Why yes I have.  Used it twice last week.  Friday we ran it up a mountain near North Bend to repair a repeater.  Saturday we had a missing person call.  Used the cat to tow a small pickup.


----------



## turbinator62

Just got back from another successful trip to the cabin. It takes about 30 minutes to make the 2.5 mile trip from where we store the cat with about a 1000 foot elevation gain. Downhill is about 25 minutes. More power than the 30hp I have really wouldn't do much good. Speed is limited by the snowmobile moguls in the road. The 1402 is so short that it really pitches on the whoop-di-doos. Like a bucking bronco if you go too fast. 

I got some inside pictures of the cabin. It is off the grid with 150 watt solar charging 2 golf cart batteries. We have a roof fed cistern with a filtration- treatment system and a basement storage tank. A demand type RV water pump provides pressure to the bath and kitchen. An rv toilet and fixtures keep water usage to a minimum. We average about 10 gallons a day. Range, hot water and refrigeration are propane. A remote start 2kw inverter generator provides 110 when needed for the microwave, power tools and to charge the batteries when it is foggy which occurs a lot.

My wife and I built it in 2002 with help from a high school buddy. It was a log kit out of Canada. We had it livable in one summer of part time work. I made all of the log furniture on site from bug-kill trees cut from the property.

The inside temperature was 14 degrees when we got there but my wife is good at getting a hot fire going. In a couple of hours it was up to a balmy 41 at which time I took off my jacket. It was in the 60's when we went to bed. We have to drain and purge the water system with compressed air when we leave in the winter. Ours is one of the few off-grid cabins in the area with running water in the winter. 

The snowcat makes going and coming in the winter so much easier and eliminates the uncertainty of using snowmobiles when you don't know what the extent of the snow cover is. It is worth every dollar I have put into it (a lot) Plus it will carry an extraordinary amount of gear in the rear cab. The hour meter is now at 36 hours since I have owned it. A lot of that was accumulated while working on it however.

I posted another video coming down our driveway. Lots of animal tracks in the road.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUILQsp7wcE


----------



## DAVENET

Now THAT is a home away from home.  And like everything else you do, ridiculous work on the furniture.


----------



## DAVENET

Depending on how long you stay in camp and/or how many trips you make up & down to your parking area it might be worthwhile make a small box drag. It wouldn't need to be big, could be left outside beside your storage box and would knock the tops off the whoops for smoother return trips.


----------



## JimVT

if it is a groomed snowmobile trail I wouldn't try smoothing it without checking with r&r grooming.


----------



## turbinator62

DAVENET said:


> Depending on how long you stay in camp and/or how many trips you make up & down to your parking area it might be worthwhile make a small box drag. It wouldn't need to be big, could be left outside beside your storage box and would knock the tops off the whoops for smoother return trips.




Our roads are all private so there would be no problem grooming. I would be the hero of the hill. Where would I find a drawing or picture of how to make a box drag? 

Here are a few more pictures of the cabin interior. We have 45 acres of which about 10 is wooded. Every year we lose 20-25 trees to pine bark beetles so we never run out of fire wood or furniture materials. I cut them down right away before they can deteriorate. I peel all the logs with a draw knife and hand chisel the tenons on a device I made that is like a vertical shave horse with a tractor seat and a foot operated rope clamp to make it easy to chisel the ends. I'm too cheap to buy a real tenon cutter, and I like the skip peel, hand hewn look better anyway. The only power tools I use are the saw to cut them, a palm sander, and forstner bits on a battery drill. I've made a number of beds and other items for friends and neighbors also. I enjoy making the furniture but it is hard on the arthritis in my hands so I don't do much of it anymore. My wife made all of the quilts.


----------



## PJL

What a beautiful place.   I'm envious.


----------



## DAVENET

http://www.arrowheadgroomers.com/miniultras.htm

This can at least give you some ideas. As long as it has the angled cutting bars to chop off the tops, and the flat plate on the rear for smoothing out your work, you could build a size that works for you out of angle iron. I can't find it, but someone here had an old metal box spring w/ blocks attached to do his local stretch of trail. Not sure how that work if the whoops were set up though.

 Edit: found it.
http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=73223&highlight=box+drag


----------



## turbinator62

Thanks Dave. That looks like it would be a good summer project. The commercial ones look like they would work the best on our road.


----------



## MNoutdoors RIP

turbinator62 said:


> Our roads are all private so there would be no problem grooming. I would be the hero of the hill. Where would I find a drawing or picture of how to make a box drag?
> 
> Here are a few more pictures of the cabin interior. We have 45 acres of which about 10 is wooded. Every year we lose 20-25 trees to pine bark beetles so we never run out of fire wood or furniture materials. I cut them down right away before they can deteriorate. I peel all the logs with a draw knife and hand chisel the tenons on a device I made that is like a vertical shave horse with a tractor seat and a foot operated rope clamp to make it easy to chisel the ends. I'm too cheap to buy a real tenon cutter, and I like the skip peel, hand hewn look better anyway. The only power tools I use are the saw to cut them, a palm sander, and forstner bits on a battery drill. I've made a number of beds and other items for friends and neighbors also. I enjoy making the furniture but it is hard on the arthritis in my hands so I don't do much of it anymore. My wife made all of the quilts.




Both of you and your wife have done some very nice work, craftperson type work.


----------



## Snowcat Pat

Inspiring! 

-Pat


----------



## sheep_mtn

turbinator62 said:


> Our roads are all private so there would be no problem grooming. I would be the hero of the hill. Where would I find a drawing or picture of how to make a box drag?



I made a pretty basic drag out of 4x4's and put in some cutting teeth. It works pretty well for taking down the snowmobile whoops, but you might do better with angle iron in the PNW. Here's that thread:

http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=73223


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

That is a spectacular cabin, by any standard. That you and Mrs. Turbinator built the cabin (and all the furniture and beautiful quilts) makes it even more so.

I have great respect and admiration for your skills and talents. VERY IMPRESSIVE!!!


----------



## turbinator62

Thank you all for the nice comments. And thank you all again for helping me get the snowcat working right.


----------



## turbinator62

A cabin neighbor just emailed me. There is 3 feet of snow at the container where the cat is stored. Even more up above. I CAN'T WAIT!!!!


----------



## turbinator62

I have found that my cat is difficult to back up with the rear cab. You just can't see much behind you. I found these back up camera systems on ebay.There are tons of them.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...k+up+camera.TRS1&_nkw=back+up+camera&_sacat=0

I got a wired one for less that 17 bucks. You can get a wireless version for less than 30. I am going to wire it to the accessory buss and just have it on all the time to use as a rearview mirror when under way.

I'll put it in when I bring the cat home in the spring and post the installation process. I haven't decided whether to put it at the top of the rear cab or down near the hitch. I'm thinking down near the hitch. My cat doesn't seem to accumulate a lot of snow on the frame just above the hitch. Any body else have experience with these?


----------



## JimVT

turbinator62 said:


> A cabin neighbor just emailed me. There is 3 feet of snow at the container where the cat is stored. Even more up above. I CAN'T WAIT!!!!



bring a shovel.


----------



## turbinator62

JimVT said:


> bring a shovel.



Been there, done that!


----------



## cloudcap

turbinator62 said:


> I'll put it in when I bring the cat home in the spring and post the installation process. I haven't decided whether to put it at the top of the rear cab or down near the hitch. I'm thinking down near the hitch. My cat doesn't seem to accumulate a lot of snow on the frame just above the hitch. Any body else have experience with these?



I'm toying w/ doing something similar on my Imp.  I lean toward putting the camera under the rear deck down by the hitch -- it will be out of the way and won't be blocked by the people or cargo I haul in the back of the Imp.  My one concern is how much snow will get flipped up in to that area and could occlude the camera.

I'm also trying to figure out how to rig up *two* cameras -- a wide angle one for backing up and one w/ a narrower field of view for when I'm moving forward.  Things in the distance just disappear w/ the wide angle camera, so that makes it ineffective as a replacement for a rear view mirror.   I've found a switch that can toggle between the two cameras, but I don't know if the Imp's front transmission (Borg Warner T-96) has a reverse switch.  I suppose I could use a toggle on the dash, but it would be more convenient to automatically switch between cameras.

Ron


----------



## turbinator62

Most of the backup monitors have 2 inputs. One for backup and one for other video signals. When it senses a signal on the backup camera, it switches to that signal. When it goes away, the other input comes through. The backup camera is activated by the backup lights in a normal installation. You really wouldn't need a camera switch. It might be possible to put a limit switch on the shifter or failing that just a switch on the dash. It only has to provide power to the backup camera. The change from one camera to the other is automatic.

 I have checked the area above the hitch on mine after a run and it doesn't seem to collect too much snow.


----------



## turbinator62

I got the back up camera today. It only took 11 days from China. This thing was only $16.78 on ebay and it works great. I got the hard wired unit that has a single cable with battery leads molded in. Just plug in the camera and monitor and add 12 volts and it works. The camera is only about 3/4" in diameter. It swivels on its base so you can mount it upside down or at any angle and rotate it for level. The warning markers seem to be about 3 feet to the end of the green. I plan to have it come on with accessory power so it will be on all the time. There are other versions with wireless cameras and dual inputs for less than $30. 

This is the one I got 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/322313646112?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

The cable on this one is about 13.5 feet plus about 18" on the monitor and the camera which is enough for my cat but may be too short for others in which case the wireless version may be better.

We are heading to Hawaii for 2 weeks for my wife's post winter warmup. Still a lot of snow at the cabin so there will probably still be some when we get back. Our friends are having a bridal shower for my cousins daughter at their cabin up the mtn. from ours on April 8th. So I might be ferrying guests up in the cat.

When the snow clears I'll bring it home for routine maintenance and install the backup camera.


----------



## turbinator62

We just got back from the cabin yesterday. I had planned to bring the cat home for service and to install the back up camera but decided to wait after looking outside. Just as we started loading the truck, we got 2" of snow. The pervious morning there were 6 bull elk outside the kitchen window and everything was green.. This winter just doesn't want to give up. This is on the 16th of May for crying out loud. 2 years ago we had zero snow all winter.


----------



## JimVT

it seems a late winter but I heard were in for a  dry summer. the tracks started to come off mine so it could replace a timing belt then I stopped and decided to hold off a few weeks.


----------



## turbinator62

I brought the cat home to Silverdale on 5 July for summer maintenance and inspection. Somewhere between Ellensburg and home the passenger door came open and being a suicide door slammed into the side of the rear cab. I had installed rubber bumpers on both sides, after having had the same problem two years ago when the door opened on the freeway and broke the tempered safety glass in the rear cab side window. But it hit the bumper so hard it flexed the door and broke the safety plate glass.  It's always something.

Everything else looked good on inspection. No safety or reliability issues. Just cosmetics and corrosion control.

The new glass is on order. I decided to rebuild both doors since I have to tear one apart anyway. I will try to figure out why the latch won't hold it closed. I had also been thinking about putting bigger windows in the side of the rear cab for better passenger visibility. So I ordered two of those while at the glass place. What started as a small repair job is now a major project. I'll cover that in the next post.

While I had it apart I installed the back up camera I bought last winter. it was pretty easy. I got a wired unit that just has a camera about the size of a walnut, and a 4.3 inch monitor. The cable length is about 16 feet total. it has a 4 pin micro plug on each end and a ground and hot lead. I wired it to the instrument circuit so it is on all the time.

The camera is mounted on the bottom of the hitch cross member. the wire runs up the left side of the tunnel, under the dash board, up the left side of the windshield to the space above the windshield centered on the drivers side. I don't know how, but the wire was not an inch too short or an inch too long. It was just right. Goldilocks!
I made my own mount for the screen. The supplied arm is fairly long and had a small base. I wanted to mount the screen close to the head liner over the windshield with Velcro that will stick to the interior carpet soundproofing/insulation. That way I don't have to drill any holes.
There are distance bars on the screen. The red bars start at about 2 feet from the back bumper.
I kind of had to put the camera on the back of the chassis because the rear cab is removable. A cat with a permanent rear cab would be able to put the camera higher. I think the low mounting will be ok. It is fairly well protected. I'll find out this winter.


----------



## turbinator62

On the trip to bring the cat back to the shop the passenger side door came open and broke the window in the door. This is the second time this has happened. The first time it broke the window in the rear cab. Before I trailer it again I am going to make some positive clamps to prevent this from happening. I don't know why the door latch won't hold. All of the Thiokol cats have suicide doors which can really fly open at 70 miles an hour.

Since I had to drive all the way up to the glass shop I decided to get some bigger windows for the sides of the rear cab as well. The small camper type windows were difficult for the rear passengers to see out of. The new ones are 4" lower, 1 inch higher and rectangular. (The frame on the old windows made the glass part smaller than the cutout they went into.) The new ones are about as big as the framing will allow. All of the windows in this cat are glued in with Dow windshield sealant except the windshield which is in a grommet.


----------



## JimVT

when I bought a bombi in idaho bill put a bungee between both inner door handles. on the snow trac I put one on the hood .
your improvements are looking good. what latches are you planning to use?
jim


----------



## turbinator62

Hi Jim. This was my solution. I made these this morning.


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## turbinator62

The drop center grousers on my 1402 were pretty worn out when I got it. They had been repaired at one time with 1/4 X 3/4 flat bar when the original wear plate had been worn to the point of being gone and the wear was going into the 3/4 square tubing. The repair is now worn out. The grouser at the tire guide should be 1- 3/16 inch thick. Some of mine are down to less than 7/8". I cut up about 40" of 1/4 X 3/4 and 3/16 X 3/4 flat bar and welded it to the bottoms to get the thickness back to spec. It's slow going. I don't have a water cooled tig torch so I have to stop and let things cool down. I rarely have welding jobs this big. Plus who knows what kind of rod the repair was done with. On some grousers mild steel rod pops and pockets like crazy. Stainless rod seems to work the best. One track is done.
It would be nice to get all new grousers, but the cost for 110 of them would be half the value of the cat.


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## BearGap

Beautiful work as always!


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## jo5

You might put some hardfaceing on them


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## turbinator62

Hard surfacing is in the plan, but I am getting really tired of welding. Been going at it for 2 days now. Hope to finish tomorrow. Its hot in my hangar! 
I don't think these grousers ever had hard surfacing. I want to put it on in such a way that it will bite into ice. We get a lot of ice under the snow on our hills from springs that continue to run in the winter.


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## turbinator62

The cat is back home in its box with new wear pads on the grousers.

 Now we just have to wait for winter.


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## Northcoast

Great job on the tracks,and the larger window is going to be a great benefit for your rear passengers. Windows can NEVER be too large in a snowcat!


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## zspryte

How's your rear view camera holding up? Any issues with vibrations and cold?


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## turbinator62

I don't know yet. I haven't had it out of the container since July. We probably won't get any snow until late November. I will post an evaluation after some real world experience. Check back later.


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## turbinator62

We had snow flurries all day yesterday and a few today. There are still white patches on the ground. This is the earliest I have seen it snow in the 15 years we have had our cabin. Hoping for a good snow year.


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## turbinator62

I picked up this groomer Sunday at the Puyallup snowmobile show for $600. It is 4 feet wide and about 12 feet long counting the tongue. It has 4 blades, a packing slide in back and a power jackscrew lift. It looks like a mogul master copy. The previous owner towed it with a utility snowmobile so I should be able to drag it with my little ol' 30 hp cat. A 6 foot wide drag would have been nice but this is the first one I have seen locally that was reasonably priced. I have to rig a temporary control cable setup for this winter, then if it works out I'll do something more permanent when I bring the cat home to the shop in the summer.
Our roads to our cabin get really lumpy by mid winter. Its a rough ride even in the cat. hopefully this will help.
Does anyone have experience with this type of trail groomer?


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## redsqwrl

NOt directly that drag but I have pulled many designs.

do those wheels in the back swivel?


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## turbinator62

The wheels are just for moving it on dry ground. They come off and are stored on the front cross member. You can see the holes in the top.
Will a groomer like this do the job in one pass or do you have to go over the rough parts several times?


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## JimVT

I seen that at the show. Should have looked for you.
Jim


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## Track Addict

Only issue you will have is the double pass to make it wide enough for your cat.  I had a drag about a foot narrower than the tucker and the edges were a challenge.

Key is grooming it from the start and keeping it smooth.  You will want to pack it down then groom it.  If you are the only one on the trail will stay flat.  If there is traffic will get lumpy.  Depending on how big the bumps get and how frozen they are will determine the quality trail grooming.  That and snow fall.  Tough to keep lots of powder groomed.


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## turbinator62

It would have been nice to have found a 6 foot groomer but this is the first one I have seen locally for sale. We have to make 2 passes anyway since it will be a round trip to the starting point. About a mile of our road gets packed and rough with whoop-di-doos from snowmobiles going back and forth. I only get over there about 4 days a month in the winter so it may be a challenge.


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## turbinator62

We had about 7-8 inches of snow on Nov 6th at the cabin. We have never had more than a trace of snow this early in the 15 years we have been here. I even took a snowmobile out for a ride.  Looks like we will be using the cat for our next trip the day after Thanksgiving.


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## redsqwrl

turbinator62 said:


> It would have been nice to have found a 6 foot groomer but this is the first one I have seen locally for sale. We have to make 2 passes anyway since it will be a round trip to the starting point. About a mile of our road gets packed and rough with whoop-di-doos from snowmobiles going back and forth. I only get over there about 4 days a month in the winter so it may be a challenge.



NO challenge, all those hours in the sand box as a kid prepared you for this task.

It is hard to give straight forward advice on beating up snow flakes. the moisture content and freeze thaw cycles make One answer impractical.

the drag you purchased will have no problem shearing off the offending snow and churning it up (friction in the working snow warms it a bit) then buttering it out the back. go in the full moon and you can see it shine and steam if it is cold enough.
as mr addict points out, Edges are a bit of a bitch on the butt as you will rock back and forth cleaning them up..... Oh wait you have the other orange machine.... the one that has all its wheels working together to ease the ride 
When I pull a 10 foot drag behind a 13'6" 2100, I just put the hitch offset to the inside. Put one track off the trail in the fluff. lower the knifes to kiss off the tops on the way in. 6-9mph is Ideal.
same on the way out.
If your machine has enough grunt, Grab a cog, and go right up the middle and the way back to the coffee cup. (beverage of choice)

All you can do is hope the sleds stay off, or behave with the right thumb, until it has a chance to freeze 
random thoughts below.

I feel grooming adds a whole new dimension to the fun of owning a over the snow machine.
Don't ever confuse packing with grooming.
early in the year pack down a base.
Grooming comes later after you have some stiff snow to work with. 
Snow mobiles do an excellent job knocking the air out of snow. 
snow mobiles like/love groomers
Gooming snow will stress test your exhaust system and the paint that inadvertently got on it, don't worry about it, thats why the doors have hinges......

 have a great snow season


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## turbinator62

Thanks for the great advice. Our roads get well packed by snowmobiles, but then we get the odd idiot who tries to drive his truck up the road and tears it all up. We usually don't get too mogully til late January although if there is wind we get some drifting in certain spots. There is really only about a mile of road that gets rough but parts of it are real steep. My cat is only 30 hp so low gear and 5-6 mph will be it. 
I didn't think about offsetting the hitch. Mine is dead center. So I will have a foot of track either side of the groomer. Is that something I should modify next season?
When making a u turn, do I just raise the front of the groomer and turn like normal? My cat is only 10 feet long. 
What about backing one of these things up if you are in a tight spot?
I've already had offers from sledders to buy my gas. So they should be happy.


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## redsqwrl

Don't sweat the offset, it is just a looks thing. a smooth flat ribbon is something to lust over. the grouser marks outside of the pan actually help get snow built up as the blowing snow will drift, if it bugs you just get some cheap comb from fall line and put little wings on to smooth out the grouser marks.
before a turn you will want to run your actuator up and pan out the snow, (empty the drag) lower it a bit when you back up to keep it from digging in, it looks to be built well and should slide backwards. Like backing a school bus up to turn around, backing a drag around to a jack knife is easier than the foot ball field it seems like it takes to pull it around. a properly placed stump of post will help facilitate a tight turn,  
you will get into all kinds of frustrating spots, best advice I got to avoid neck strain is.....

Just Go.

I have gone miles out of the way to a good spot to turn around rather than making a j turn then spending 12 minutes trying to clean up the mess a tight turn creates.

BTW. I will take a stout 30 HP WI, over a crappy running V8 that idles weak anyday.


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## turbinator62

Thanks for the advice. This is all new to me. 
Looking forward to seeing how it works.


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## turbinator62

zspryte said:


> How's your rear view camera holding up? Any issues with vibrations and cold?



The back up camera seems to work great. It didn't have any snow on it after a 2.5 mile trip. It works as a rearview mirror also. There is a good view to the rear while traveling. The reference marks provide anout 5 feet of distance to the end of the green when backing. Definitely worth the 16 bucks I paid for it.


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## turbinator62

I saw this little 1402 on highway 10 a few miles west of Ellensburg Wa. $7995. I put more pictures on the for sale section as well as the phone number.


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## turbinator62

We had another successful trip to the cabin. There was a big New Years party and fireworks on our mountain so we had a lot of gear. 7 Rubbermaid totes, 6 duffle bags, 2 ice chests, propane, oil, gas, water, pop, air compressor and tools. The usual. I bet my wife it wouldn't all fit and we would have to use the cargo sled. She won.
There was about 5 inches of snow when we got there on Wednesday the 27th. Thursday was nice then it rained all night and Friday, turning the snow to slop. Then the temperature dropped to 16F and everything froze solid. The road down was literally a sheet of ice. We made it down on the 2nd ok, but the cat could be competitive in Olympic Ice Dancing.
Typical Washington winter.


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## turbinator62

We went to the cabin last weekend (19-22 Jan). I wasn't able to post due to a data base error on the forum when I tried to log in. Looks like it is fixed now. 
There had been about 10 inches of snow on Thursday but when we arrived on Friday it was 38 deg and the snow had shrunk to 5". Pretty mushy and wet. A lot of the road was bare gravel but there was still a lot of ice on the shaded areas of the road. Naturally those areas are the steepest sections. It was pretty hairy coming down on Monday to go home. I tried to keep one track off to the edge of the road so it would be in undisturbed snow, but on our steepest part, downhill, with the right track on the outside of a gentle turn, and the left track on ice, with the left brake on full, I could not turn left around the corner. The left track was just skating. It eventually started to hold and we made it around. I was reluctant to stay on the inside (left) of the turn as that is a steep slope into a canyon.
I would have thought the drop center grousers would have done better on ice because the ground pressure would be higher on a solid surface. I need something on the grousers to bite into the ice that won't tear up other surfaces. Any ideas?

I picked up a very nice 20' storage container last week for the cat. My buddy who let me keep it in his 40 footer just bought a new Ranger 4 seat UTV with tracks. There is room in his for both, but it will be more convenient to have my own. I got it for $1000 but still have to have it moved over to Ellensburg in the spring.
We put vents in the door and a turbine vent on the roof of the opposite end on his to pull the moisture from melted snow out. I'll do the same on mine.


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## Cidertom

Would spotting with a carbide nuggets like they do horse shoes work?  tradenames such as borium, drill tek, carbraze...  

??

CT


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## turbinator62

That might work. I'll look them up. I may only have to put them on every fifth (high) grouser. 
Thanks!


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## Aaron Tucker

turbinator62 said:


> We had another successful trip to the cabin. There was a big New Years party and fireworks on our mountain so we had a lot of gear. 7 Rubbermaid totes, 6 duffle bags, 2 ice chests, propane, oil, gas, water, pop, air compressor and tools. The usual. I bet my wife it wouldn't all fit and we would have to use the cargo sled. She won.
> There was about 5 inches of snow when we got there on Wednesday the 27th. Thursday was nice then it rained all night and Friday, turning the snow to slop. Then the temperature dropped to 16F and everything froze solid. The road down was literally a sheet of ice. We made it down on the 2nd ok, but the cat could be competitive in Olympic Ice Dancing.
> Typical Washington winter.



thats quit the load !
I know how you feel . We packed 4 adults and 2 kids in my trooper . The back was fully loaded to snowmobile ,keg ,kooler,snowboards,avy bags and totes.its crazy what you can bring in the back country


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## turbinator62

I like seeing people using their cats for family fun. Great memories.


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## turbinator62

Cidertom said:


> Would spotting with a carbide nuggets like they do horse shoes work? tradenames such as borium, drill tek, carbraze...
> 
> ??
> 
> CT



While researching the Carbraze for ice traction, I found these. They are made by Mustad for horse shoes. They have 3/8 or 5/16 threads and come in various sizes. They cost about a buck a piece. I'm thinking 2 in every fifth (high) grouser. It would take 44. They are fairly low profile so wouldn't tear things up too bad when in not in snow. I would just have to drill and tap the wear pads. When on a hard surface, the drop center type grousers only have 3/4" X 4-1/2" contact with the ground per grouser.
Think they would do any good?


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## Cidertom

I thought about those as well.  I have no idea how they would work.  do your grousers have enough material to resist tearing out?


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## Cidertom

A quick search couldn't find them, but there was a style of ice caulks that drive into a tapered hole in the horse shoe.  Much lower profile, but still had the carbide tip.  I would worry that that high of a threaded caulk would make the problem even worse in raising the effective height of the high grousers further.


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## turbinator62

I forgot the link to the website https://www.well-shod.com/products/mustad-ice-studs-1903.html

I think the short stud they sell is about 5/16 tall. There is plenty of thickness to thread them in. 
This summer I welded on 3/4 X 1/4 X 4-1/2 steel wear pads to every grouser as they were pretty worn out when I got the cat. The grousers are actually all the same height, but every fifth one has a plate that is welded to the grouser that runs the full width at the same height as the center before I welded on the new wear pads. The high grousers are to increase the deep snow ability without overloading the 30 hp engine or the OC-4 transaxle which could be the case if they all had the plate. It does ok for what I am using it for, except on the ice.
They cost about 50 bucks for 50 and I could install them on the cat without welding or pulling the tracks. I also saw the drive in type, but I would be afraid of them getting loose and falling out. 
I found lots of ATV studs for rubber tracks and tires but they have more of a sheet metal type screw thread. I never imagined that horseshoes would use something like this.


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## Cidertom

turbinator62 said:


> I never imagined that horseshoes would use something like this.




I used to do a fair amount of forge work.  Not Farrier, but back then the catalogs had a lot of horsey stuff in them.   Someday I will get the forge back in operation and have some fun.  Steel bends so much easier when it is bright cherry. That and sometimes you just want to beat something with a hammer (beating the co-worker gets you talked about, substitute a steel bar)

Let us know how it turns out,

CT


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## turbinator62

In my world we called it the old "Heat n Beat" technique. Nothing bigger than an acetylene torch would make red. I did make 3 new grousers for the cat that way.


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## turbinator62

Most of the snow had melted at our cabin since our last trip up. It had been pretty skimpy all winter. We decided to come up yesterday (16 Feb). The roads were bare with a few patches of ice here and there and 39 deg. We came all the way up to the cabin in our Tahoe no problem. I figured winter was pretty much over. Temps were forecast for the high 40's to 50 today with rain. 
This is what we woke up to this morning. 8 inches and snowing hard. I chained up the car, got it down to the bottom and brought up the cat. Not long after that we had a white out blizzard with blowing snow. It's still snowing at 5 pm.
There is no more secure feeling than sitting in a warm cabin with a snowcat outside knowing you will make it down the mountain safely no matter what. I  my snowcat.


----------



## JimVT

turbinator62 said:


> Most of the snow had melted at our cabin since our last trip up. It had been pretty skimpy all winter. We decided to come up yesterday (16 Feb). The roads were bare with a few patches of ice here and there and 39 deg. We came all the way up to the cabin in our Tahoe no problem. I figured winter was pretty much over. Temps were forecast for the high 40's to 50 today with rain.
> This is what we woke up to this morning. 8 inches and snowing hard. I chained up the car, got it down to the bottom and brought up the cat. Not long after that we had a white out blizzard with blowing snow. It's still snowing at 5 pm.
> There is no more secure feeling than sitting in a warm cabin with a snowcat outside knowing you will make it down the mountain safely no matter what. I  my snowcat.


or a post and a fleet of cats to your rescue.


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## turbinator62

We brought the cat back home last week for summer maintenance and inspection, oil change etc. I also wanted to install some ice studs in the grousers. We get a lot of ice on our steep roads due to water seeps in the road cuts which freezes and can get very thick. The last 2 years have been particularly exciting going up and down.
Cidertom suggested products made for horseshoes. A company called Mustad makes screw in carbide studs that look like they would do the trick so I got a box of 50. They are about a buck apiece.
I made mounting plates from 1/4 X 3/4 flat bar and drilled and tapped a 3/8-16 hole about an inch from the outer end. I decided to put the studs on every fifth grouser (high). There are 11 high grousers per side with 2 studs on each. 44 total studs. This will put about 8 studs in contact with the ground on each side. (about the same as a car with studded tires) My grousers have been repaired and welded on so many times over the last 50 years that each one was a custom job. Way more work than I thought it was going to be.
I made a welding gauge from the same 1/4" stock that puts the stud mounts 1/4" lower than the wear pad. When installed, the stud will be about 3/16" higher than the wear pad. Hopefully that is enough to bite into the ice without hanging down too far.
The nice thing about the screw in type is they can be removed or replaced fairly easily.
Just have wait for winter now to see how it works.


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## Cidertom

On my st4, the two bolt heads for the center band stick up by their height.  The one place I had ice this year, they did help the slip.  Waiting to see how yours turn out.  I'm thinking that if I still need help that I might do the carbraze on top of the bolt head.  Of course that will hurt the grade 8 rating.  But with the distributed loading, perhaps not too much.  

CT


----------



## turbinator62

I thought about carbrazing the wear pads after you told me about the process. While researching the carbraze, I found the threaded studs. My thinking was they could easily be removed/replaced. It has turned out to be more work than I thought to modify the grousers to take the studs but I wanted to make it so it could be repaired without having to remove a grouser in the future.
Carbrazing the bolt heads on yours would still give you the same remove/replace option. In a pinch I could also carbraze a short bolt to replace a stud. 
I was kind of surprised to see how much a rod of carbraze cost. I don't know how much it would take to do a cat. The studs were about 50 bucks for a box of 50 of which I will use 44 so I'll have a few spares left over.
I hope 3/16 protrusion is enough. 
Thanks again for the heads up. I never would have thought about farrier products for a snowcat.


----------



## turbinator62

While I had the cat in the shop I also hard wired it for the groomer we bought last year. It just has an electric jackscrew to raise and lower the front of the unit with the tongue. I used a 4 pin metal type trailer plug on the rear bulkhead.
I have kept the cat in my friends 40' container for the last 5 years but last winter he bought a Ranger Crew with tracks. It was getting a little crowded in there. At he same time, his son in law's neighbor had to sell a 20' container because he was moving. I got it for 1000 bucks. My buddy with the 40' was doing some dirt work this spring so while the equipment was there he had a spot graded and graveled for it. With transportation and grading the total was about $2500. A good deal I think, plus the timing was perfect. It's good to have friends. Last week I put vents in the doors and a turbine vent on the roof of the other end. The wind is always blowing over there so that will keep air moving though and melted snow from raising the humidity inside to a million percent and rusting everything. 
The nice thing about the 1402/1404 cats with a standard track is they will fit in an 8' wide space. I marked the floor as a guide so I can get it over to the right as far as possible in order to be able to get my fat a** down the side and in the door. There was even room left over for a small single sled folding snowmobile trailer in the back.


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## BearGap

Gorgeous work as always.


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## JimVT

also fireproof
jim


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## PJL

Is that temp gauge accurate?


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## turbinator62

"Hopefully" fire proof. After the Snag Canyon fire a few years ago, some friends had their snowmobiles and generator etc. in a 40 footer surrounded by trees. The container was undamaged, but when they opened it up there were puddles of melted aluminum with crankshafts, rods and a few ball bearings laying on the floor. It was just a big Easy Bake oven. It had to have gotten REALLY hot in there. The remains of the sleds are now artwork decorating their deck.
I have gravel all around with just grass and some sage brush around that. Hopefully it will be ok.


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## turbinator62

PJL said:


> Is that temp gauge accurate?



The temp gauge is a kitchen thermometer to keep an eye on the cooling air temp and the heater air. It was reading high because I had just ran it. Going up hill it will read about 150-165 deg. and down hill about 110 to 120.


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## Nikson

Nicely done!


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## sno-drifter

turbinator62 said:


> "Hopefully" fire proof. After the Snag Canyon fire a few years ago, some friends had their snowmobiles and generator etc. in a 40 footer surrounded by trees. The container was undamaged, but when they opened it up there were puddles of melted aluminum with crankshafts, rods and a few ball bearings laying on the floor. It was just a big Easy Bake oven. It had to have gotten REALLY hot in there. The remains of the sleds are now artwork decorating their deck.
> I have gravel all around with just grass and some sage brush around that. Hopefully it will be ok.



Here is a two track which endured a wild fire in a container near Bakersfield CA and came out unscathed. Plenty of rubber to catch fire and nun of it charred. You should be fine having no fuel around the container.


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## turbinator62

We had another easy trip to the cabin with our usual load. 4 totes, 4 duffle bags, snowmobile gear, guns, propane, gas, 2 coolers, a bale of hay (for the deer) bird seed, and an extra special cargo this year, a 40 pound bag of cats. (Plus kitty litter and cat food). We inherted 2 big cats from our sons friend last October. He got a new job and couldn't take them with him. They seemed to handle the trip ok. The snow cat is so loud we couldn't hear them howling even if they were. They like it at the cabin though. Lots of things to see out the windows. Dozens of deer and a flock of wild turkeys. Dublin (fuzzy butt) is on the beam and Woody is looking out the window. They are good cats but neither is the brightest bulb of the litter. They wouldn't last 5 minutes in the wild.

It was in the 20's when we got here on Thursday, with about 10 inches at our place. Then Friday night it warmed up to 35 and poured rain on Saturday. Much of the road is bare. What wasn't bare was sloppy slush and white water rapids. Typical Washington winter. Now it's back in the 20's and everything is covered in ice. Yuck. So much for snowmobiling this trip. 

The cat ran great as usual. The new ice studs seem to help although it did skate around a little on the icy parts. Not as bad as before. Studs on every grouser would probably be better. The back up camera works well when backing up to the porch. Since the clutch fix I can make it most of the way up the hill in 3rd gear, shifting down to 2nd for the steep parts. The trip up is about 25 minutes, and down about 20 minutes in 3rd. 4th gear down hill is a little too fast for me.

I did a 2.5 mile measured run down the hill and back starting with a full tank. (5 miles round trip). It used 1.25 gallons. So 4 miles per gallon. That's better than the 2.5 mpg I thought it was. Yay.  Now I need to update the brochure.

Tonight we are going up the hill to our friends for the annual Table Mountain New Year's Party and Fireworks. So Happy New Year to all of you.


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## Nikson

Good to see you guys out and about! 
Happy New Years!


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## JimVT

the  squirrels are in for a good surprise this year.


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## turbinator62

We call my wife the Squirrel God Mother. She has gone through 2500 pounds of sunflower seeds in 16 years. Our squirrels are very happy and healthy.


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## turbinator62

JimVT said:


> the squirrels are in for a good surprise this year.



These cats wouldn't know what to do with a squirrel even if they caught it. If the food doesn't come out of a can or bag they won't eat it. They don't like to get their feet wet or dirty either.


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## turbinator62

Made it up to the cabin for the weekend. Not much snow down below  but about 10-12 " from the treeline on up. Lots of ice on the road as you can see. No issues with skating. The studs are doing their job.
Hoping to do some snowmobiling this trip. Temps are in the 30s and the snow is mealy but rideable. Last time it warmed up and got slushy.
I just got back from a round trip down to the storage containers. My neighbor left home and forgot his keys so I went down and unlocked it. Most of us have keys to each others places in case of emergency. 
On the way down I used 4th gear on the bare parts of the road. It scoots along pretty good but is a rough ride. Down hill in 4th I can pull the engine back to idle. Maybe I can get the mileage up to 5 mpg!?


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## Nikson

Nicely done...  

if you ever plan on getting rid of the cat, i would like to have an opportunity to buy it back


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## turbinator62

Hi Nik. 
You will be at the top of my list when the time comes. Right now you would have to take on my wife over it, which is a task I would wish on no mortal man. Initially she was somewhat skeptical of the snow cat idea, and the cost involved, but now she is totally on board. That is mostly due to the way you did the rebuild.  Now, what the snow cat needs, it gets. Storage container? Do it. Back up camera? Git er done.
This machine has changed the winter trips to our cabin from a stressful, uncertain ordeal to a comfortable, reliable and safe journey. Even our cats like it. The way the last couple of winters have been, we would not have been able to do it with snowmobiles. I consider it my good fortune to have been able to buy it from you. Hard to believe that was 6 years ago. I've logged about 150 miles and 50+ hours in it so far.
With all of the experience you have now, you could build a SUPERCAT that could take your whole family winter camping. 
I would still rather have this cat than a side-by-side with tracks. It just seems like a more sustantial vehicle and will carry whatever you can cram into it. Too bad no one makes these anymore.


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## KT3survivor

this is the kind of snowcat build everyone wants to own.  your skill set is clearly top notch (i liked the airbox most) thanks for posting all the details including the cabin itself.


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## Nikson

turbinator62 said:


> Hi Nik.
> You will be at the top of my list when the time comes. Right now you would have to take on my wife over it, which is a task I would wish on no mortal man. Initially she was somewhat skeptical of the snow cat idea, and the cost involved, but now she is totally on board. That is mostly due to the way you did the rebuild.  Now, what the snow cat needs, it gets. Storage container? Do it. Back up camera? Git er done.
> This machine has changed the winter trips to our cabin from a stressful, uncertain ordeal to a comfortable, reliable and safe journey. Even our cats like it. The way the last couple of winters have been, we would not have been able to do it with snowmobiles. I consider it my good fortune to have been able to buy it from you. Hard to believe that was 6 years ago. I've logged about 150 miles and 50+ hours in it so far.
> With all of the experience you have now, you could build a SUPERCAT that could take your whole family winter camping.
> I would still rather have this cat than a side-by-side with tracks. It just seems like a more sustantial vehicle and will carry whatever you can cram into it. Too bad no one makes these anymore.



Yes, and yes., and yes... but if time ever comes - please know both (you and her) that I would like to be offered an opportunity.

p.s. SuperCat is in process, just might be calling that as I've thought of the same name as well...


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## turbinator62

Thanks KT3. We had a good trip to the cabin last weekend. There is about 2 feet of snow up there now. More than we have had for many years. The cat did great! Temps had been down to single digits but were mid teens to mid 20's while we were there. Just right.
Snowmobiling conditions were as good as it gets. I went out with a 20 something friend (I'm 66) Big mistake. I tried to keep up with him and about ripped my new hip out of its socket when my foot slipped off the running board in a steep turn.. Still limping.
My wife and I are getting to where we prefer to take the snowcat when going to friends cabins or sightseeing than the snowmobiles. Slower, but way more comfortable.
We had this very weird snow snake hanging off the deck rail when we got there. I have never seen anything like it before. One of our friends had one too. Conditions must have been just right for something like that to occur. There was about 4 feet of snow that slid off the roof on the deck. As we warmed up the cabin, you could hear it creaking and groaning for a few hours as it slid off the roof like a glacier.
We tried to use the groomer we bought 2 years ago but haven't had enough snow to use it till this year. Got it all hooked up and found the linear actuator that lifts the front would stall and not lift it. So much for that. I brought the actuator home and found the front bearing on the motor was loose radially in its retainer. Fixed that, cleaned up the armature, put in new brush springs and cleaned the corrosion off the thermal overload on the brush holder. I tested it with a little 10 amp battery and it lifted the front of our car so it should be ok now.


----------



## DAVENET

Looks like you'll have enough snow to give that another try this season. Maybe June?


----------



## mlang2005

You got the wife plumbed into that headset? I’d turn the volume all the way down and let the rocking snowcat nod my head in agreement.


----------



## turbinator62

Made a trip to the cabin for the weekend. The snow has really melted since last month. Temps are mid 40's. We tried to drive the Tahoe all the way up but had to turn around with a half mile to go. Went back  down and got the cat. 2 miles on gravel with the last half mile in deep soft slushy snow with ice underneath. Our driveway still has over a foot but the woods and hillsides are mostly bare. This is the 4th time we've used the cat this season.
I had taken the lift actuator off the groomer on the last trip because it was stalling out before it would raise the groomer. I fixed it at home and brought it up to test today and it worked fine. Except now there's no snow to groom. Maybe next year. We've had it 3 years now and haven't been able to use it yet. I think if I tried to use it in this sloppy stuff I would just have a big mess.


----------



## luvthemvws

Hey, how much travel does that linear actuator have?
How much time does it take to go from limit to limit?
 Thanks for your input!


----------



## turbinator62

It has 6 inches of travel and takes about 10 seconds. The rated force is 500 lbs. It has an internal auto resetting thermal overload to prevent motor burnout in case of stall and at the travel limits to eliminate the need for limit switches.


----------



## turbinator62

We brought the cat home for annual maintenance this week. I installed the new Kevlar clutch in 2016 along with John Deere Hygard oil. At the first oil change last year, I had some steel fuzz on the magnetic plug and some bronze flakes (from the throwout bearing) settled out in the drain pan. The whole clutch assembly was new in 2016 so I attribute the debris to break in. This year, there was no steel and just a few flakes. The oil was the same color and smell as new. So that's good news.

Other than that just checking for leaks (none found) corrosion control (never ends), tire pressure, lubrication etc. It should be ready to go back to Ellensburg by Labor day.

I also rebuilt the tongue for the groomer so I could get the back door of the cat open with the groomer hooked up.


----------



## PJL

When are you attaching the wings?  Whats the Vr speed?


----------



## turbinator62

Vr would probably be somewhere around falling out of the back of a C-130 speed.
The wings are for my 80% T6A Texan ll project. It is 25' long, 27' span 1500 lb gross, with a 160 ESHP T62-T2A1-32 turboprop. I hope to get back to work on it when I get the cat out of the hangar.
The whole thing is scratch built so it is slow going.


----------



## PJL

Very cool project, thanks for sharing.  Been awhile since I worked with Clecos.  I didn't build a complete airplane though.


----------



## Cidertom

I saw this dash on the interweb a while ago, and thought of you. (and then notices the poopy wiring job on the sound box)


----------



## turbinator62

He must have 3 instruments for every cylinder. I don't think a C-130 has that many, and it has 4 engines!


----------



## AbelLMTV

I read this entire thread and it really made my Sunday morning.  Thanks for keeping the snowcat community up to date on your findings and modifications.  

It is refreshing to see meticulous work in a day and age where "instant gratification" seems to be the norm.  Do it right the first time (or at least try to) and the end result is always better....


----------



## turbinator62

Thanks for the kind words. I can hardly believe this will be our 7th season. 
No snow at the cabin yet but we are hoping.
I owe a lot of my success to the information and advice that was available on the forum. 
If you haven't read it already, this is the link to the thread that the previous owner did when he restored it. Seeing his workmanship on the forum was what convinced me to buy it.

http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=58427


----------



## turbinator62

The only thing I did to it this summer besides routine maintenance was I added an outside thermometer. I think I got it on ebay for 6 bucks.
I mounted the probe under the search light away from the body.
Nice to know what the temp is outside when you are toasty warm inside.


----------



## turbinator62

It has been another meager snow year in the eastern Washington Cascades. We were able to drive the Tahoe up right after Christmas through new years, and it hasn't been any better since. All of the cabin owners have been able to drive up in their trucks and SUVs all season. Even those much higher than me. I haven't been to the cabin since 2 January. It seems that some weird little bacteria found a way into my lungs and gave me pneumonia. Got a ride in an ambulance which is nothing but a rough riding 1 ton TRUCK and I had to PEE. Spent 5 days in the hospital on an IV and have only been home since the 14th. (What a way to spend Valentines day.) I have only been able to work in the hangar the last couple of days (when the BOSS lets me).
Unless there is a big snow soon my cat may just have to sit in the cathouse all year. We hope to go over about the 20th of March. Hopefully we can salvage something from this winter.


----------



## PJL

Yeah it's been grim around here.  Glad you're feeling better.


----------



## Solrus

turbinator62 said:


> I brought the cat home to Silverdale on 5 July for summer maintenance and inspection. Somewhere between Ellensburg and home the passenger door came open and being a suicide door slammed into the side of the rear cab. I had installed rubber bumpers on both sides, after having had the same problem two years ago when the door opened on the freeway and broke the tempered safety glass in the rear cab side window. But it hit the bumper so hard it flexed the door and broke the safety plate glass.  It's always something.
> 
> Everything else looked good on inspection. No safety or reliability issues. Just cosmetics and corrosion control.
> 
> The new glass is on order. I decided to rebuild both doors since I have to tear one apart anyway. I will try to figure out why the latch won't hold it closed. I had also been thinking about putting bigger windows in the side of the rear cab for better passenger visibility. So I ordered two of those while at the glass place. What started as a small repair job is now a major project. I'll cover that in the next post.
> 
> While I had it apart I installed the back up camera I bought last winter. it was pretty easy. I got a wired unit that just has a camera about the size of a walnut, and a 4.3 inch monitor. The cable length is about 16 feet total. it has a 4 pin micro plug on each end and a ground and hot lead. I wired it to the instrument circuit so it is on all the time.
> 
> The camera is mounted on the bottom of the hitch cross member. the wire runs up the left side of the tunnel, under the dash board, up the left side of the windshield to the space above the windshield centered on the drivers side. I don't know how, but the wire was not an inch too short or an inch too long. It was just right. Goldilocks!
> I made my own mount for the screen. The supplied arm is fairly long and had a small base. I wanted to mount the screen close to the head liner over the windshield with Velcro that will stick to the interior carpet soundproofing/insulation. That way I don't have to drill any holes.
> There are distance bars on the screen. The red bars start at about 2 feet from the back bumper.
> I kind of had to put the camera on the back of the chassis because the rear cab is removable. A cat with a permanent rear cab would be able to put the camera higher. I think the low mounting will be ok. It is fairly well protected. I'll find out this winter.


When I was transporting my Centaur with the same style of doors, I always parked backward for the same reason. Later got 8x16 enclosed trailer and installed diesel heater and by the time Im home some snow is melted.


----------



## turbinator62

Mine sits in a 20' container at the bottom of the mountain. I put a turbine ventilator on the container and vents on the doors so the moisture from melted snow is able to dry out. A covered trailer would sure be nice. I never thought about the doors blowing open when I was hauling it. The door clamps seem to do the trick now.


----------



## jo5

turbinator62 said:


> Mine sits in a 20' container at the bottom of the mountain. I put a turbine ventilator on the container and vents on the doors so the moisture from melted snow is able to dry out. A covered trailer would sure be nice. I never thought about the doors blowing open when I was hauling it. The door clamps seem to do the trick now.


I’ve used keyed alike garage door tee handles on mine can also get L handle with same key
Bungee work good on the doors
glad your getting it fixed


----------



## BearGap

I know you could make this work.


----------



## turbinator62

My wife would love that on the back door of the cat. I have a stool I have to put out for her.


----------



## DAVENET

Have you gotten enough snow this year to utilize it?


----------



## turbinator62

The last time we made it was new years for 4 days. We used the cat but there wasn't a lot of snow at the cabin. Lots of ice on the road though. Tried to go snowmobiling but ended up getting stuck 3 times on Reecer road, then my sled quit completely and had to get towed back. Got the parts that I hope will fix it but we haven't been able to get back up. Then I got a covid shot which made me sick almost exactly 3 days after I got it. (Supposed to get the second one on the 26th. Can't wait.) I got rear ended sitting at a stop light in town TWICE, two weeks apart in 2 different cars. What are the odds of that? Just got the second car out of the shop on Thursday. Then it was so cold up there (4 deg) we decided to pass. At that temperature it just takes too long to get the cabin warmed up. Valentines weekend we had snow here which messed up our roads and Snoqualmie pass has been closed a lot for a week.  I have a disabled son who requires a lot of attention and we are moving him to a new facility on the 27th.  
As Gilda Radner used to say "Its always something!"  With that string of luck it's probably better we didn't go.
All was not lost as I did get some work done on my plane.
So... Hopefully the first weekend of March we'll make it. 
There has been a ton of snow at our place the last couple weeks. We have friends up the road who are living off the grid full time now and give us the condition report. Maybe we can salvage some of this winter yet.


----------



## DAVENET

Funny how how life likes to kick you in the balls, and then snickers and kicks a second and third time just to make sure you're awake & feeling it! Heading to our camp in the Adirondacks is similar.  If we aren't going for 4 days in the winter it just isn't worth it. Too much gear to pack in and a day of getting the cabin up to a livable temperature.  After that it's fine, but I'm not doing weekend trips anymore!  Just keep fighting to get up there and snap lots of pics!


----------



## PJL

At this very moment all 3 of Washington State's Cascade passes are closed due to heavy snow and extreme avalanche conditions. 

Snoqualmie had 48 inches in 3 days.  I had mine out recently and had to turn around as it was too deep.  Our heavy snow here isn't light and fluffy.  A shovel full weighs like 50 lbs.  It's feast or famine.  

Here is a screenshot of our avalanche forecast.  Black is the very worst.  Black means stay home.


----------



## turbinator62

I haven't seen it like that in a long time. This winter started out looking lean. It must be bad if your cat had to turn around.
I did get quite a bit done on the center section of my T6A. Got all the hydraulic lines  and linkage in. The gear is functional with the gear doors and retractable led landing light. I have to disassemble it and chromate everthing, then it can be riveted and skinned. This was the most difficult geometry problem I ever did. Very small variations in linkage length and it won't work. Getting it all crammed into the wing was a challenge. I could never be an aeronautical engineer. I'm so slow I'd get fired.
You tube video   



  Without rivets and skins its a little flimsy looking. I tested it with air but it will be slower with hydraulics.


----------



## turbinator62

Finally made it over to the cabin. Our last time here was Sep. 6. I was down sick for most of October. So now I have  ton of winter prep to do in a short time. 
Went down to the container to check on the cat and it had an almost dead battery. Enough to engage the starter gear but not enough to crank it. It has an Optima yellow top battery that Nik put in when he restored it. That was in 2012. Just doesn't seem that long ago. I may have been able to recharge it but once a battery has gone dead I don't trust them. Especially in a vehicle like a snowcat.
With it in the container it is real hard to get to the battery so I pulled the cat out with my truck. Went down to OReilly in Ellensburg to get a new one. 
$338!!  I knew they were pricey but jeez!
It started right up. Checked it over and aired up a few tires so its good to go.
I'm going to look for a solar battery maintainer to put on the storage container. I have a battery disconnect switch in the cat but it was really hot this summer which may have contributed to the dead battery. Still, 9 years isn't bad.


----------



## Solrus

turbinator62 said:


> Finally made it over to the cabin. Our last time here was Sep. 6. I was down sick for most of October. So now I have  ton of winter prep to do in a short time.
> Went down to the container to check on the cat and it had an almost dead battery. Enough to engage the starter gear but not enough to crank it. It has an Optima yellow top battery that Nik put in when he restored it. That was in 2012. Just doesn't seem that long ago. I may have been able to recharge it but once a battery has gone dead I don't trust them. Especially in a vehicle like a snowcat.
> With it in the container it is real hard to get to the battery so I pulled the cat out with my truck. Went down to OReilly in Ellensburg to get a new one.
> $338!!  I knew they were pricey but jeez!
> It started right up. Checked it over and aired up a few tires so its good to go.
> I'm going to look for a solar battery maintainer to put on the storage container. I have a battery disconnect switch in the cat but it was really hot this summer which may have contributed to the dead battery. Still, 9 years isn't bad.


Do you  have ability to use battery tender and leave it while you are away? Mine snowcats connected all the time while not in use. I bought multi port Noco that works for all fleet


----------



## turbinator62

I'm looking for a solar battery maintainer now. Shouldn't be to hard to set up on the container. We are off the grid. I have done several solar setups over the years. The battery is disconnected when parked.


----------



## Solrus

turbinator62 said:


> I'm looking for a solar battery maintainer now. Shouldn't be to hard to set up on the container. We are off the grid. I have done several solar setups over the years. The battery is disconnected when parked.


Look at govplanet they sell already preassembled navy solar stations for fracture of the original cost


----------



## Bobcatbob

I use these on old back up military generators (what the government uses for their vehicles, equipment….different amp versions available).  






						Amazon.com: SP-3 SolarPulse 12V Battery Solar Charger Maintainer, 3W : Automotive
					

Buy SP-3 SolarPulse 12V Battery Solar Charger Maintainer, 3W: Battery Chargers - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



					www.amazon.com
				




Ive only had one issue with them (the led indicator light has “burned out”, but the unit still worked perfectly after 7 years).

Bob


----------



## turbinator62

Thanks for the info. 
After a little research, I think I can put together a 10w panel, and charge controller for less than 40 bucks. I did one on a friend's container with a small sla battery for led lights. The same system should work for this.


----------



## turbinator62

I recharged the battery on my smart charger and it has held a 12.6v charge for a week now. I think I'll use it to run my sons cpap machine through a small inverter when he's at the cabin with us for Thanksgiving. (Keep it separate from the cabin system.) It would also be a good battery to have around for jump starting.


----------



## Solrus

Bobcatbob said:


> I use these on old back up military generators (what the government uses for their vehicles, equipment….different amp versions available).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amazon.com: SP-3 SolarPulse 12V Battery Solar Charger Maintainer, 3W : Automotive
> 
> 
> Buy SP-3 SolarPulse 12V Battery Solar Charger Maintainer, 3W: Battery Chargers - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ive only had one issue with them (the led indicator light has “burned out”, but the unit still worked perfectly after 7 years).
> 
> Bob


Bob ,why this brand? Any advantage? I want to get one too and was not sure what did you find out that u went with this charger vs others?


----------



## Solrus

Solrus said:


> Bob ,why this brand? Any advantage? I want to get one too and was not sure what did you find out that u went with this charger vs others?


Bob, lets say this 10W - https://www.amazon.com/Maintainer-W...RXKN9MF,B07GTFXYDT,B088GXV4FZ,B07R17GKBY&th=1


----------



## Bobcatbob

Solrus said:


> Bob ,why this brand? Any advantage? I want to get one too and was not sure what did you find out that u went with this charger vs others?


Hi Solrus

I bought a set of military generators for back up power and saw they had Pulsetech 12v maintainers on them.  I replaced one of them in 2014 (it had been damaged in shipping)…it’s still going strong.  I sought out the same brand they had on them (figured the military typically has done their homework)…..and I’ve bought enough Chinesium junk off Amazon…..this was an area I wanted high quality and reliability.






						Company Profile | Pulsetech Products Corporation
					

PulseTech® Products Corporation has been at the forefront of researching, developing and delivering next-generation battery testing, maintenance and charging systems




					www.pulsetech.net


----------



## Solrus

Bobcatbob said:


> Hi Solrus
> 
> I bought a set of military generators for back up power and saw they had Pulsetech 12v maintainers on them.  I replaced one of them in 2014 (it had been damaged in shipping)…it’s still going strong.  I sought out the same brand they had on them (figured the military typically has done their homework)…..and I’ve bought enough Chinesium junk off Amazon…..this was an area I wanted high quality and reliability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Company Profile | Pulsetech Products Corporation
> 
> 
> PulseTech® Products Corporation has been at the forefront of researching, developing and delivering next-generation battery testing, maintenance and charging systems
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pulsetech.net


Make sense. Thank you for the clarification!


----------



## PJL

I have used some Pulsetech products.  It's good stuff.


----------



## turbinator62

We just got back from the cabin. No snow and 53 deg!! Yikes.
I usually check out the cat and prep it for the winter in October. This year I was sick in Oct. so didn't get to it till November. When we were up there a couple weeks ago I found the battery had gone bad, so replaced it and aired up all the tires. They all have tubes in them so they lose a little over the summer. The front idler tires need about 70 psi because they are what provide the track tension. The bogies are about 35 psi. The left idler was down a little but the right was flat. I filled it to 70 and put the cat back in the container. We went up for Thanksgiving and on Friday I went down to recheck the tire and it was down to 30 psi. So went to town and picked up anew tube, pulled the track and took the wheel up to the cabin where I have a small shop in the basement. It's a two piece rim so I pulled it apart and found the tube had a bad spot where the valve stem is attached. While I had it apart I made a chafing ring from duct tape. I assembled the wheel halves without the tire and wrapped the wheel joint with two layers of 2 inch tape, sticky side up and a layer over that sticky side down. That way i can take the wheel apart, put the tube in the tire, leave the ring on one side as the tire and tube go over it then slide the other side over the tire and into the tape ring. The tape will prevent the inflated tube from trying to  squeeze down into the joint area of the two halves.

The easiest way to get the track off this cat is to align the lacing at the 9-10 o-clock position on the rear sprocket since that is the only position where you can get clearance to pull the inner pin out. Then take the valve stem core out to deflate the idler, and use my handy dandy Harbor Freight 8" "C" clamps (IMP track jacks) to squeeze the lacing together enough to pull the pins. Assembly is the reverse except it takes a lot of pull to squeeze the flat front tire and get the grousers over the sprocket. In this case I used the Tahoe to pull it on. God help me if I ever have to do this in deep snow.


----------



## turbinator62

Here we go again! Came up to our cabin for New Years. When we got here I did a walk around and oh crap,  the front idler is flat again. I just put a new tube in it last month. Had it off and in the cabin in about 20 minutes by myself. First time I've done it in the snow. Temp is 9 deg. Not that hard really. Had to bring my compressor up from the basement to warm up as it was too cold to start on the generator. Don't know why it went flat yet. I have another new tube. I'll get it back together in the morning. Grousers scraped up the edges of the rim but didn't damage it.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Speaking of Bud Nikson....anyone see or here of him lately.....???????????


----------



## PJL

Yeah, he's still alive.  Posted on Instagram yesterday.  








						Nikson (@budnixon) • Instagram photos and videos
					

4,967 Followers, 829 Following, 3,392 Posts - See Instagram photos and videos from Nikson (@budnixon)




					www.instagram.com


----------



## turbinator62

I haven't heard from Nik in awhile either.
I got the tire and track back together this morning. The tube I put in last month was split near the valve stem. I hope the new one does better. I have to make a run down the hill late tonight to pick up my son and his wife. It's 12 deg right now.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Glad ya got the tire fixed.
Foam those front ones....

Glad Nik is OK  He is not too far from me..


----------



## turbinator62

The early Imps use the front idler tire pressure to maintain track tension. There is a 4 position mount for the idler axle in 1 inch increments. Once you set it you can't change it with the track on. So to install the track, you deflate the tire (10 ply 4.10/3.50-6) pull the track on and get the pins in the lacing, then reinflate the tire. (60-70 psi) You should have a visible amount of squeeze where the grousers go around it. If the tire is still loose in the tire guides, you need to move the axle forward some more. The system is simple and has worked well till now.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Ahhhhh.

I did not realize that was what they Imps used.......I have not been around Imps...Only the Sprytes and 2100
Better tube ????


----------



## turbinator62

I think you're right. The fist one that went bad was 9 years old. The first replacement was the only one I could find in town. Kind of a no name brand in the garden dept. Fortunately I ordered a spare and brought it over with us. It was a Carlisle brand. Seems to be more pliable in the cold. 
I made a run down the mountain at 10 last nite to pick up my kids with no problems.  Good thing! It was 8 deg.
Hope every one here has a Happy New Year!


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Have a great weekend..


----------



## turbinator62

Pulled the cat out last month for summer maintenance, oil change, tire pressure check, etc. I found the right front bogie behind the idler (the idler went flat last winter) to be completely flat. In order to get the wheel off, you have to take the nuts off the 2 axle bolts on the outer spring pack and remove the U bolts that hold it to the cross member. Then you can pull off the spring pack, and after letting the air out of the idler, spread the track enough to get the wheel and tire out. The other way is to remove the track, jack it up real high, take the axle bolt out completely and drop the wheel out the bottom. I chose the first method. Since I knew I would be working alone, I needed a way to hold the inner axle bolt head while I removed the nut. (Unfortunately, I don't have Orangutan arms) With the track off, you can reach through to hold the bolt head which is how I did it on the original assembly. 
Before we went over this weekend, I made a tool to hold the bolt head while I turned the nut. It is a 3/4" combination wrench with the open end part cut off, the box end straightened, and some 1/4" holes drilled in it. I made a hook bolt from a long 1/4" bolt bent in a u on the inner end to hook over the spring leaf and a knurled knob threaded to be able to tighten it. The other end has a piece of 1/4 X 3/4 flat bar with two screws that span the thickness of the spring to limit rotation. You could use this tool on the 1402, 1404 and maybe the 1450.
It beats scraping up your arms trying to reach in there from the outside.
Put in a new tube and all the tires appear to be good. I'll check it again in the fall.


----------



## turbinator62

At some point in my cat's past, 2 of the bogie wheels were replaced with units that are different than the other 6. It really isn't noticeable until you try to assemble them onto the spring packs. When I had the running gear apart while redoing the springs, I found that 2 of the wheels are wider than the others. The 2 wide ones, with the tire installed, barely clears the edges of the springs, (1/16") while the other 6 are 3/4" clearance or more. The wide wheels are about 5 inches between the beads, the others are about 3 inches. The tires are the same. There was nothing I could do about it at the time, so I made it work. I was always concerned about something getting jammed between the tire sidewall and spring.

You can see the difference between the wheel on the left and the wheel on the right in the first picture. The formed stampings are different. The hub is the same. The valve stems come out at a different angle as well.

I have a garden cart that I pull behind my 4 wheeler at the cabin. After 20 years the tires (wheel barrow type) and sleeve bearings went bad, so I replaced them with wider ball bearing wheels. I got to looking at the old wheels and they appeared to be the same stamping and wall thickness as the narrow cat wheels with the exception of the hub. After some thought I decided to try to modify them.

The first step was to remove the old hub. I made an aluminum bushing to act as a pilot for a 1 3/4 hole saw and cut the hubs out, then chucked it up in an 8" 4 jaw chuck in the lathe and bored the holes to 1.875" which is the OD of the original hub. Trying to dial in a stamped steel part was time consuming. The best you can do with something like this is about .030 TIR, but that should be good enough for a slow turning wheel. The new wheels were tubeless, so I had to relocate the valve stem hole so that an inner tube can be installed. I will weld a plug in the original hole.

I have a length of 1.875 X 1/8 wall 4130 tubing for the hub. (left over from the landing gear on my plane project) We will be going to the cabin for Labor Day and I will remove the 2 wide wheels, and bring them home so I can get accurate measurements on length, bore etc. A single straight bore for a press fit of the bearing race and seal is all that's required. Then weld it in the wheel, paint it orange mount the tires and hope it works!

More to follow.


----------



## turbinator62

I got the new wheels modified for my 1402. I ended up using a 4" piece of 2" dia. 4130 tube with a .188 wall. I bored it to 1.781 X .940 deep for a press fit of the wheel bearing race and seal. I centered it up in the bored hole in the wheel and tig welded it in. They rotate within about .030 runout which is pretty good for a stamped steel rim.

You can see the difference in width between the 4" and 3". I know these were used on small boat trailers from the 60's but I'm wondering if maybe they fit a 1450 since they are a heavier rim. The 4" was made to use a tubeless valve stem.

Hope to get them installed this next weekend when we go back to the cabin.


----------



## turbinator62

Got the two new front bogies installed. All the tire pressures are good so it should be good to go. Tomorrow I'll go down and pull the engine cowl and look the engine and exhaust over real good. Winter is not far off. It went from hot to cold here in less than a week.


----------



## turbinator62

We finally made it back to the cabin. We had 2 trips planned that got messed up by weather and then a 3 week bout with covid. We just got feeling better so decided to make a run..
I wanted to get things ready for winter but it beat me to it. We have never had this much snow this early in November. Its only 5-6 inches but with our steep roads, ice, and drop off edges I gave up trying to drive up in our Tahoe. I could have chained it up but I would have got all wet and cold and isn't that the whole reason to have a snowcat?
I only got to drive it once last year. This is the earliest I have ever used it. No flat tires this time thankfully. Hopefully we will have a good winter this year, but then, this is Washington, so you never know.


----------



## turbinator62

Just finished inspecting the engine on the cat. I had planned on doing it last month but didn't get over here due to covid. So I got to do it in the snow. 
Every thing was clean with no oil or exhaust leaks. My CO detector keeps chirping though, even with new batteries. Do they have a limited life? Mine is 10 years old already. (Time flies). Last picture is this morning's sunrise.


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## Cidertom

yes co detectors have a limited life. 10 is stretching it.  usual for commercial is 7.


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## Cidertom

Be glad it wasn't a "certified" one they expire at 18 months.  I had both my O2 and CO time out on me last season.  Between the cat and the tent that's $.   On the other hand waking up dead is a bummer.


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## turbinator62

Thanks Tom. Seems like 10 years went by fast.


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