# Hidden Engagement



## Spilling Her Heart

I have been dating a guy for three years who has two beautiful kids from a previous marriage. Each step in our relationship has been greeted with a great deal of hesitation on his part. Almost as if I am setting the pace in everything here. I was ready to give up and move back to my home town and he proposed. Since proposing he has asked that we not make a big production out of it so that there was no unnecessary drama from the ex. I didn't have a problem with this until recently when his ex texted him to come by her new place of work to see the office. What did this have to do with the kids? Then we ran into a mutual friend of theirs that did not know we were engaged. Ok.. Now I am noticing a pattern. Then again this weekend we had to exchange the kids with the ex's parents and I was asked to remove my ring. We have since argued about this one. He swears that I volunteered removing my ring. I may be losing my mind here. I sure do feel like it. For some reason he can not understand why I feel awful about him actually hiding our engagement from the kids, his ex, her parents, and any mutual friends that they may have.


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## Melensdad

Wow, not sure how to respond.  Congrats on the engagement, but I don't understand why it must be kept a secret from the EX.  I have to presume there are feelings for the EX, that probably can't be helped and they probably are very mixed (love and hate) because the kids are involved and those are a part of both of them.  Still, it seems to me that at some point he has to come to grips with the fact that the EX will know, must know, that you and he are together.


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## Spilling Her Heart

He claims that it needs to be a secret due to possible retaliation on her part. But he says he has no reason to believe she would care, and that he does not care about her. So, why the need to hide?


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## Cowboyjg

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO


He is or he insn't, your are or you aren't, he will or he won't, 

HE DOES OR HE DOESN'T......

Tooooooooo complicated. I think you're setting your self up for trouble. 

If you don't have migranes now....you will.

Hell, even the airlines charge for EXCESS baggage (and I don't mean the kids)

Sorry, but there are some things that you don't compromise on...Love is one!



Nice to meet you. 

Welcome to the forums....


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## Spilling Her Heart

No doubt that my thorough confusion has not only caused me to succumb to the advice of people I don’t even know, but I am subjected to the onslaught of some nasty migraines and relentlessly sleepless nights.


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## Melensdad

I think you need to have a long talk.  YOU need to understand HIS side, and HE needs to understand YOUR side.  TOGETHER you need to come to a common resolution.


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## Cowboyjg

Spilling Her Heart said:


> No doubt that my thorough confusion has not only caused me to succumb to the advice of people I don’t even know, but I am subjected to the onslaught of some nasty migraines and relentlessly sleepless nights.


 

Just because you don't know us doesn't mean we don't know what we're talking about. You're arrival here was inevitable. Just look around, you're home now..


The longer you're here the fewer migranes you'll have. Everyone here is numb..... somewhere.


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## Cowboyjg

Except BOB......he's numb all over.




Actually he's right, except yours needs to be the short version.


Here's the pot, use it or lose it.


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## Spilling Her Heart

B_Skurka said:


> I think you need to have a long talk. YOU need to understand HIS side, and HE needs to understand YOUR side. TOGETHER you need to come to a common resolution.


 



Our long talk resulted in my being irrational due to the fact that I could not understand his side. Round and round argument went like so…. 

why must we hide the engagement
because he is worried about retaliation
Do you think she still has feelings for you and will retaliate?
he says no and he does not care about her feelings
I ask if he cares about mine
he says he is doing this for me and waiting for the “right time”
I ask what the right time will be
He says he does not know….
 
9, 10 and 11… insert migraine here….


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## Doc

First off welcome to Forums Forums.   I'm glad you found us and decided to join us.   

Sorry to read of your issues with your fiance.  I assume the EX knows you both live together.  So she is aware of the arrangement.  
Plus your feelings of pushing the relationship to each new step concerns me.  Is there a chance he knew you were getting fed up and looking for something more and he read that and responded by proposing?  Is a date set or is that something that will be set in the future?
Something just don't sound right with his decision to keep it from his EX and all their mutual friends.  
I see two options at this point:
1. And ultimatum to him to announce your engagement.  Huge downside to ultimatums is that you have to be prepared to follow through with whatever action your say in the ultimatum.  A rather tough option.
2. Accidentally (on purpose) wear your ring and accidentally (on purpose) run into a mutual friend who will let the cat out of the bag as soon as she gets to a phone.  

But before you do any of this look for other signs of what his true feelings are.  Trying to hide things as he is it seems very suspicious to me.  You have to decide are you better off with him or without ...because either of the above actions could backfire and you end up alone.


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## Spilling Her Heart

Cowboyjg said:


> Except BOB......he's numb all over.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually he's right, except yours needs to be the short version.
> 
> 
> Here's the pot, use it or lose it.


 

Use it or lose it is a cop out ultimatum. I never threaten to walk away until I am ready to walk away. At such point that I feel I have exhausted myself in efforts and feel numb.. an ultimatum would be a pointless gesture. I pity people who win by means of ultimatum. Coursed responses are often not genuine.


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## Cowboyjg

Doc said:


> First off welcome to Forums Forums. I'm glad you found us and decided to join us.
> 
> ...because either of the above actions could backfire and you end up alone.


 
Every single one of us here who have professed our adoration for our signifcant others have included descriptions of the kind of relatonship we have. Does any of this sound familiar to you? Is this the kind of relationship you have.

I challange any one of you to say that you would expect that kind of behavior out of your partner.

As far as being alone, it beats a sharp stick in the eye, which is what she is geting in her current situation.

In an effort to be balanced though, he at least deserves an opportunity for a reality check. (although I think that has already occured)

The ultimatum is for you, not for him. How much are you willing to tolerate before it's time to get off the ride?


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## Spilling Her Heart

Doc said:


> First off welcome to Forums Forums. I'm glad you found us and decided to join us.
> 
> Sorry to read of your issues with your fiance. I assume the EX knows you both live together. So she is aware of the arrangement.
> Plus your feelings of pushing the relationship to each new step concerns me. Is there a chance he knew you were getting fed up and looking for something more and he read that and responded by proposing? Is a date set or is that something that will be set in the future?
> Something just don't sound right with his decision to keep it from his EX and all their mutual friends.
> I see two options at this point:
> 1. And ultimatum to him to announce your engagement. Huge downside to ultimatums is that you have to be prepared to follow through with whatever action your say in the ultimatum. A rather tough option.
> 2. Accidentally (on purpose) wear your ring and accidentally (on purpose) run into a mutual friend who will let the cat out of the bag as soon as she gets to a phone.
> 
> But before you do any of this look for other signs of what his true feelings are. Trying to hide things as he is it seems very suspicious to me. You have to decide are you better off with him or without ...because either of the above actions could backfire and you end up alone.


 


Thanks for all of your quick responses. This is way better than the “kick him to da curb!” response that I have gotten from my girlfriends.  I am not ready to make a quick nor hasty decision here. I clearly love him and have a lot of emotion invested. Let me start by saying that I am an attractive, independent, successful individual. I own my own home, work for a large company in a successful position and have no real need to jump from the pan into the fire when presented with a ring. To clarify, we do not live together. He owns his home, I own mine, we share almost every night together… except for last night and tonight. We do not sleep together in his bedroom when he has the kids over. I advocate his parental decision to not send his kids the wrong message. They do not know we are engaged but they welcome the idea and have asked me to marry their daddy on numerous occasions. We will not live together until we are married. The wedding date is set for 11/11/11. We are making plans to wed in Greece. This is a big feet for both of us to afford but in my opinion well worth it. I am not in any rush. I simply don’t understand the need to hide our engagement. My ego is bruised, my sensibility lights are flashing, and my gut is not letting me sleep at night. Normally I would say communication is the key. But unless I agree that he is right and has his reasons… to him.. I am just irrational. And so that brings me here to you guys. Thanks for the great responses!


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## Spilling Her Heart

Cowboyjg said:


> Every single one of us who have professed our adoration for our signifcant others have included descriptions of the kind of relatonship we have. Does any of this sound familiar to you? Is this the kind of relationship you have.
> 
> I challange any one of you to say that you would expect that kind of behavior out of your partner.
> 
> As far as being alone, it beats a sharp stick in the eye, which is what she is geting in her current situation.
> 
> In an effort to be balanced though, he at least deserves an opportunity for a reality check. (although I think that has already occured)
> 
> The ultimatum is for you, not for him. How much are you willing to tolerate before it's time to get off the ride?


 
Very good point. I am not sure how much more I am willing to tolerate. I am weighing my options at this point. I like to think it through. Second and third opinions help insure that my final decision is not rash but well thought out.


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## Cowboyjg

Sorry if I've come off a little strong but I have pretty solid positions on stuff like this....besides, I've spent all day in an Army Corp Asphalt Paving Workshop ..after connecting flights with so many kids it was like riding the school bus to work and I needed to let it out a little. 

Thanks.


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## Spilling Her Heart

Cowboyjg said:


> Sorry if I've come off a little strong but I have pretty solid positions on stuff like this....besides, I've spent all day in an Army Corp Asphalt Paving Workshop ..after connecting flights with so many kids it was like riding the school bus to work and I needed to let it out a little.
> 
> Thanks.


 


NP… I didn’t post this up in hopes that one of you might offer me a tissue and some baby talk. Thanks for your genuine unbiased opinion. Just what the Dr. ordered in my opinion.


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## pirate_girl

Spilling Her Heart said:


> I have been dating a guy for three years who has two beautiful kids from a previous marriage. Each step in our relationship has been greeted with a great deal of hesitation on his part. Almost as if I am setting the pace in everything here. I was ready to give up and move back to my home town and he proposed. Since proposing he has asked that we not make a big production out of it so that there was no unnecessary drama from the ex. I didn't have a problem with this until recently when his ex texted him to come by her new place of work to see the office. What did this have to do with the kids? Then we ran into a mutual friend of theirs that did not know we were engaged. Ok.. Now I am noticing a pattern. Then again this weekend we had to exchange the kids with the ex's parents and I was asked to remove my ring. We have since argued about this one. He swears that I volunteered removing my ring. I may be losing my mind here. I sure do feel like it. For some reason he can not understand why I feel awful about him actually hiding our engagement from the kids, his ex, her parents, and any mutual friends that they may have.


Sounds to me like he's still too attached to the ex and her family.

Why would he care what the ex wife thinks if he loved you enough to propose? Why would he want you to not wear the engagement ring at all times?

Tell him to once and for all fish or cut bait, where the ex is concerned.

Thank God a woman is here to offer you some advice.


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## Spilling Her Heart

pirate_girl said:


> Sounds to me like he's still too attached to the ex and her family.
> 
> Why would he care what the ex wife thinks if he loved you enough to propose? Why would he want you to not wear the engagement ring at all times?
> 
> Tell him to once and for all fish or cut bait, where the ex is concerned.
> 
> Thank God a woman is here to offer you some advice.


 
Seems like sound and practical advice to me. The only problem is that he claims it is for the sake of the kids that he doesn’t want to piss of the ex. Depending on the path of her projected retaliation; he may be right in his fear. He has just now told me that he’d like to wait until after Christmas to tell her. I am not sure how that makes any difference. But in his eyes it makes all the difference in the world. 

I am sitting at the doorstep of promises only to find the edge of emotional limbo…


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## pirate_girl

Spilling Her Heart said:


> Seems like sound and practical advice to me. The only problem is that he claims it is for the sake of the kids that he doesn’t want to piss of the ex. Depending on the path of her projected retaliation; he may be right in his fear. He has just now told me that he’d like to wait until after Christmas to tell her. I am not sure how that makes any difference. But in his eyes it makes all the difference in the world.
> 
> I am sitting at the doorstep of promises only to find the edge of emotional limbo…



Perhaps he _doesn't_ want to risk anything involving the kids, however.. after a 3 yr relationship, this is the first time this has crossed his mind?

After Christmas?? come on!! That's 5 months away!!

He's pulling something here, and you my dear are falling for it hook-line and sinker. That's just my opinion based on if this were myself walking in your shoes.

By the way, welcome.


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## Spilling Her Heart

pirate_girl said:


> Perhaps he _doesn't_ want to risk anything involving the kids, however.. after a 3 yr relationship, this is the first time this has crossed his mind?
> 
> After Christmas?? come on!! That's 5 months away!!
> 
> He's pulling something here, and you my dear are falling for it hook-line and sinker. That's just my opinion based on if this were myself walking in your shoes.
> 
> By the way, welcome.


 

Pulling something? My instinct feels that same suspicion, but my mind can not verify proof enough to walk based merely on suspicion. So goes the old adage that it is easier to give advice than to take it


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## pirate_girl

Spilling Her Heart said:


> Pulling something? My instinct feels that same suspicion, but my mind can not verify proof enough to walk based merely on suspicion. So goes the old adage that it is easier to give advice than to take it


There is still a bit of cake there, as in his wanting to have his cake and eat it too.
He wants you in his life, yet he cannot seem to entirely let go of what once was.
How involved have you been in the life of his kids?
I am assuming they know you and like you and you all may have spent some time together.
Three years is a long time to be in a relationship as far as it holding some sort of commitment.
He proposed to you so you'd stick around, now he's wanting to keep things hidden.
Just doesn't add up to me.


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## Spilling Her Heart

pirate_girl said:


> There is still a bit of cake there, as in his wanting to have his cake and eat it too.
> He wants you in his life, yet he cannot seem to entirely let go of what once was.
> How involved have you been in the life of his kids?
> I am assuming they know you and like you and you all may have spent some time together.
> Three years is a long time to be in a relationship as far as it holding some sort of commitment.
> He proposed to you so you'd stick around, now he's wanting to keep things hidden.
> Just doesn't add up to me.


 
You have just surmised my perpetual migraine in a nut shell. I have gone round and round in trying to understand him and his point of view. He feels fully justified in his effort to keep things hidden for the sake of keeping the peace. But I can not understand his feeling so justified at the cost of my feelings… the woman he is supposed to love and cherish.


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## pirate_girl

Spilling Her Heart said:


> You have just surmised my perpetual migraine in a nut shell. I have gone round and round in trying to understand him and his point of view. He feels fully justified in his effort to keep things hidden for the sake of keeping the peace. But I can not understand his feeling so justified at the cost of my feelings… the woman he is supposed to love and cherish.


Darling, welcome to the world of men.
How old are you anyway?


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## Erik

late to the party, but...
you have met the Ex, right?  are you comfortable talking to her when he's not around?  have you gotten the impression that she's that vindictive at this point in their relationship?
she knows the 2 of you have been an item for a while - if not from seeing you together, then from the kids.  The kids will tell mom "we did XYZ with dad and his girlfriend this weekend", etc...  and if they've mentioned marriage to you, they've likely mentioned it to her.
Not knowing how old the kids are, but since they have brought it up in the past - ask them when they think things should happen the next time they bring it up.

have the talk with him - tell him it's his turn to listen.  Lay out your feelings and insecurities and ask him for an actual reason that makes sense to your inner fears, not his vaguely unsatisfying "she might retaliate" -- which is an empty threat if he has court guaranteed visitations, which it sounds like he does.

and yes, I agree that he needs to pony up and either admit why he's hiding things or understand that you will slip away if he leaves you off the hook for too long.  Do not phrase it as an ultimatum, just as a fact of life, and mean it when you say it.  It'll suck to be you if it happens, but cautery beats a lingering death by emotional hemorrhage.


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## pirate_girl

Erik said:


> late to the party, but...
> you have met the Ex, right?  are you comfortable talking to her when he's not around?  have you gotten the impression that she's that vindictive at this point in their relationship?
> she knows the 2 of you have been an item for a while - if not from seeing you together, then from the kids.  The kids will tell mom "we did XYZ with dad and his girlfriend this weekend", etc...  and if they've mentioned marriage to you, they've likely mentioned it to her.
> Not knowing how old the kids are, but since they have brought it up in the past - ask them when they think things should happen the next time they bring it up.
> 
> have the talk with him - tell him it's his turn to listen.  Lay out your feelings and insecurities and ask him for an actual reason that makes sense to your inner fears, not his vaguely unsatisfying "she might retaliate" -- which is an empty threat if he has court guaranteed visitations, which it sounds like he does.
> 
> and yes, I agree that he needs to pony up and either admit why he's hiding things or understand that you will slip away if he leaves you off the hook for too long.  Do not phrase it as an ultimatum, just as a fact of life, and mean it when you say it.  It'll suck to be you if it happens, but cautery beats a lingering death by emotional hemorrhage.


Well Holy crap Erik!
Now that deserves a rep!


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## Spilling Her Heart

pirate_girl said:


> Darling, welcome to the world of men.
> How old are you anyway?


 
The question of my age must be based on my seemingly naïve belief in the good of people before proven otherwise. I hold that ability as a bittersweet treasure.

I am 35 he is 38. He has two very young daughters and I have one who is 18.


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## Spilling Her Heart

Erik said:


> late to the party, but...
> you have met the Ex, right? are you comfortable talking to her when he's not around? have you gotten the impression that she's that vindictive at this point in their relationship?
> she knows the 2 of you have been an item for a while - if not from seeing you together, then from the kids. The kids will tell mom "we did XYZ with dad and his girlfriend this weekend", etc... and if they've mentioned marriage to you, they've likely mentioned it to her.
> Not knowing how old the kids are, but since they have brought it up in the past - ask them when they think things should happen the next time they bring it up.
> 
> have the talk with him - tell him it's his turn to listen. Lay out your feelings and insecurities and ask him for an actual reason that makes sense to your inner fears, not his vaguely unsatisfying "she might retaliate" -- which is an empty threat if he has court guaranteed visitations, which it sounds like he does.
> 
> and yes, I agree that he needs to pony up and either admit why he's hiding things or understand that you will slip away if he leaves you off the hook for too long. Do not phrase it as an ultimatum, just as a fact of life, and mean it when you say it. It'll suck to be you if it happens, but cautery beats a lingering death by emotional hemorrhage.


 

I have met her, had texted chat with her where she belittled him and told me things he swears were not true. Some were silly things like "he never helped with the kids in our marriage". This is clearly untrue bases on the way he tends to the children now. But I let her vent, speak her peace and so on. She left him, and has told me that she has no feelings for him and I could have him. Uh.. That was awkward since I didn't know I needed to ask for him. Things like that have made the impression that she is capable of retaliation... but why or how? Isn't he allowed to move forward with his life? She has. So is this threat of retaliation real or conjured due to emotional strings he refuses to sever? I really don't know. I have asked him and his constant response is that I am the only one for him and that he loves me.


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## pirate_girl

Spilling Her Heart said:


> *The question of my age must be based on my seemingly naïve belief in the good of people before proven otherwise. I hold that ability as a bittersweet treasure.*
> 
> I am 35 he is 38. He has two very young daughters and I have one who is 18.


Not at all hun. Just wanted to get an idea is all.
Thanks for the information.
I do hope you two find the path to happiness in all this.
One thing I have learned about men being 49 years old and having been once married for a little over 16 years(divorced) then a second time for 5 ( I am a widow).. we as women will never be able to actually figure out most of the men who cross our paths, but I for one respect men (and dogs) more than most other beings.
Could be because I had an awesome Father and a few good dogs in my day.


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## Trakternut

Spilling Her Heart said:


> my sensibility lights are flashing, and my gut is not letting me sleep at night.



What we call "gut feelings" are simply our unconscious selves nudging our conscious selves.  
  Our brains process and store hundreds and thousands of bits of information every day without us being aware of it.  Certain things will stimulate a memory of what's stored and it manifests itself as a "gut feeling".
  Your "sensibility lights" flashing is your "gut" telling you _"Whoah! There, Missy! Step back and take a goooood long gander at this knight in shining armor!!!"_
  I think you'd be much better off  if you did just that. Examine yourself thoroughly. I smell a skunk in this here culvert.


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## Spilling Her Heart

pirate_girl said:


> Not at all hun. Just wanted to get an idea is all.
> Thanks for the information.
> I do hope you two find the path to happiness in all this.
> One thing I have learned about men being 49 years old and having been once married for a little over 16 years(divorced) then a second time for 5 ( I am a widow).. we as women will never be able to actually figure out most of the men who cross our paths, but I for one respect men (and dogs) more than most other beings.
> Could be because I had an awesome Father and a few good dogs in my day.


 

I like you. You make me laugh. I have an awesome dog!


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## pirate_girl

Trakternut said:


> What we call "gut feelings" are simply our unconscious selves nudging our conscious selves.
> Our brains process and store hundreds and thousands of bits of information every day without us being aware of it.  Certain things will stimulate a memory of what's stored and it manifests itself as a "gut feeling".
> Your "sensibility lights" flashing is your "gut" telling you _"Whoah! There, Missy! Step back and take a goooood long gander at this knight in shining armor!!!"_
> I think you'd be much better off  if you did just that. Examine yourself thoroughly. I smell a skunk in this here culvert.


Ahhhhhhhhhhh another voice of manly reason.


Well said Monte.


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## pirate_girl

Spilling Her Heart said:


> I like you. You make me laugh. I have an awesome dog!


Laugh?
That's my job around here Lady.


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## Trakternut

Thank-ya, Darlin'!


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## Spilling Her Heart

Trakternut said:


> What we call "gut feelings" are simply our unconscious selves nudging our conscious selves.
> Our brains process and store hundreds and thousands of bits of information every day without us being aware of it. Certain things will stimulate a memory of what's stored and it manifests itself as a "gut feeling".
> Your "sensibility lights" flashing is your "gut" telling you _"Whoah! There, Missy! Step back and take a goooood long gander at this knight in shining armor!!!"_
> I think you'd be much better off if you did just that. Examine yourself thoroughly. I smell a skunk in this here culvert.


 

Even if his emotions won’t let him move forward, I have a hard time condemning him to a pugnacious odorous being. He may be so convincingly lying to himself about all of this that he can’t see the forest for the trees. I am simply trying to sort through the mess at hand. But my gut also tells me this is a good man. One that I would befriend even if not romantically involved.


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## pirate_girl

Trakternut said:


> Thank-ya, Darlin'!


Ya welcome my big bald man.


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## Trakternut

Who told you I was big?


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## Erik

Spilling Her Heart said:


> I have met her, had texted chat with her where she belittled him and told me things he swears were not true. Some were silly things like "he never helped with the kids in our marriage". This is clearly untrue bases on the way he tends to the children now. But I let her vent, speak her peace and so on. She left him, and has told me that she has no feelings for him and I could have him. Uh.. That was awkward since I didn't know I needed to ask for him. Things like that have made the impression that she is capable of retaliation... but why or how? Isn't he allowed to move forward with his life? She has. So is this threat of retaliation real or conjured due to emotional strings he refuses to sever? I really don't know. I have asked him and his constant response is that I am the only one for him and that he loves me.



venting is normal and human - don't stress that.
if she gave you permission to take him, it means she knows she still has some sort of hold, even if only because he hasn't cut himself loose yet.
I'm sure she's capable of retaliation - just as I'm sure he's capable of pushing her buttons - but that doesn't mean she will.
He's allowed to move forward, that's not really the question you're asking -- it's is he willing to move forward.

It's easy for some to say what they think someone else wants to hear, it's harder to tell the truth that you don't really want to admit to yourself.

whichever way you choose to go with this, best of luck --- oh, yeah, and welcome to the forums!


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## Trakternut

More manly reason.  Good post Erik!


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## pirate_girl

Spilling Her Heart said:


> Even if his emotions won’t let him move forward, I have a hard time condemning him to a pugnacious odorous being. He may be so convincingly lying to himself about all of this that he can’t see the forest for the trees. I am simply trying to sort through the mess at hand. But my gut also tells me this is a good man. One that I would befriend even if not romantically involved.



Well then, be patient and wait for him to prove himself otherwise.
You seem to be committed to him. Stand by him, let him do what he does, but keep in mind you DO NOT have to be there unless you choose to be there.
Be a strong woman and uhh, keep him on a short leash if you can.
Be mindful that there are plenty of other fishes in the sea, and that life is too short.
There isn't a damned thing wrong believing in someone and investing your heart with trust, but that heart of yours must remember that at the end of the day, there is only one you on this earth and that first and foremost you must think about yourself.


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## Erik

Spilling Her Heart said:


> Even if his emotions won’t let him move forward, I have a hard time condemning him to a pugnacious odorous being. He may be so convincingly lying to himself about all of this that he can’t see the forest for the trees. I am simply trying to sort through the mess at hand. *But my gut also tells me this is a good man. One that I would befriend even if not romantically involved.*



and that may be the most telling part of all of this.
perhaps what you have is a romance that's heading towards being a really good, deep friendship for a while.
I have a couple of friends that dated for a few years, but for whatever reason, one or the other wasn't ready to tie the knot and they went their separate ways.  they stayed friends, and then about 15 years later, they went out on a date and pretty soon were to be married.
the first time around, they apparently weren't ready -- each had some lessons to learn.
At this point they've been married for better than a dozen years, have gone through good times and bad, and ended up swapping coasts and careers (a couple of times for the careers)

if it's right, you will all be able to make it work out.  If you can't figure out how to communicate, you won't.


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## Spilling Her Heart

Erik said:


> venting is normal and human - don't stress that.
> if she gave you permission to take him, it means she knows she still has some sort of hold, even if only because he hasn't cut himself loose yet.
> I'm sure she's capable of retaliation - just as I'm sure he's capable of pushing her buttons - but that doesn't mean she will.
> He's allowed to move forward, that's not really the question you're asking -- it's is he willing to move forward.
> 
> It's easy for some to say what they think someone else wants to hear, it's harder to tell the truth that you don't really want to admit to yourself.
> 
> whichever way you choose to go with this, best of luck --- oh, yeah, and welcome to the forums!


 

I came here to hear the truth... not some 
candy coated concoction made up by friends who want me to feel better about the situation. The time now is to closely evaluate, not apply a superficial bandage


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## Trakternut

Good!!  It's good to hear that you're actually trying to listen.  Most people would shut their ears when they  hear something that isn't pleasant. I think you're gonna be alright. Might be painful, but in the end,alright!


----------



## pirate_girl

Spilling Her Heart said:


> I came here to hear the truth... not some
> candy coated concoction made up by friends who want me to feel better about the situation. The time now is to closely evaluate, not apply a superficial bandage


Erik was simply offering his side.
That's the way it is here.
If you come for advice, you'll most likely get different points of view from a lot of members.
My POV is purely from standing in your shoes and stepping outside the box with what I hope has been a bit of reason.
Don't ask tho... I've messed up a time or three around here...


----------



## Trakternut

Yeah, but you know what? PG's good as gold!  Her mistakes hurt no one. She's honest as the day is long and has a damned good head on her shoulders.  She should scare the hell out of most men because she's who she is, the real deal.  She's deserving of a damned good listen.


----------



## pirate_girl

Trakternut said:


> Yeah, but you know what? PG's good as gold!  Her mistakes hurt no one. She's honest as the day is long and *has a damned good head on her shoulders. * She should scare the hell out of most men because she's who she is, the real deal.  She's deserving of a damned good listen.


Which is why I am still single. haha! 

Just kidding Monte, and thanks.


----------



## Trakternut

You're still single because I'm still married!

Ha-ha!


----------



## Erik

Spilling Her Heart said:


> I came here to hear the truth... not some
> candy coated concoction made up by friends who want me to feel better about the situation. The time now is to closely evaluate, not apply a superficial bandage



wasn't trying to candy coat anything.
You can read my words however you like, but it sounds like you didn't hear the same message PG & Tnuts did - or what I meant.

any power she has over him is because he gives it to her.
if he's afraid of retaliation, maybe he's done something to deserve it.

you've asked us what the problem is - and there are 2 of them.
     a) he's afraid/unwilling to move on with his life.
     b) you're letting him have a new life without having to let go of the old one.

so, what truth that you already know in your heart/gut do you not want to admit to yourself about the situation?


----------



## pirate_girl

Trakternut said:


> You're still single because I'm still married!
> 
> Ha-ha!




































you nutter!


----------



## Trakternut

and she wants to club me to death now!


----------



## pirate_girl

Erik said:


> wasn't trying to candy coat anything.
> You can read my words however you like, but it sounds like you didn't hear the same message PG & Tnuts did - or what I meant.
> 
> any power she has over him is because he gives it to her.
> if he's afraid of retaliation, maybe he's done something to deserve it.
> 
> you've asked us what the problem is - and there are 2 of them.
> a) he's afraid/unwilling to move on with his life.
> b) you're letting him have a new life without having to let go of the old one.
> 
> so, what truth that you already know in your heart/gut do you not want to admit to yourself about the situation?


Yup.


----------



## jpr62902

Erik said:


> any power she has over him is because he gives it to her.
> if he's afraid of retaliation, maybe he's done something to deserve it.


 
On the other hand, some people have inherent qualities that they just are.  Scorpions sting, and some ex-spouses are just naturally vindictive.

Regardless,



Erik said:


> you've asked us what the problem is - and there are 2 of them.
> a) he's afraid/unwilling to move on with his life.
> b) you're letting him have a new life without having to let go of the old one.


 
I agree with (a) and (b) 100%.


----------



## BamsBBQ

Spilling Her Heart said:


> He claims that it needs to be a secret due to possible retaliation on her part. But he says he has no reason to believe she would care, and that he does not care about her. So, why the need to hide?


 
because as a person with a vendictive,mean,nasty,mean,mean,horribly mean(you see a pattern here?..lol) ex-wife, i can see his point a little bit. i had to do the same thing because everytime i started seeing someone new, my ex would keep me from seeing my daughter. sometimes its just easier to do what you know is not right when it comes to kids and mean exes



Cowboyjg said:


> NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
> 
> 
> He is or he insn't, your are or you aren't, he will or he won't,
> 
> HE DOES OR HE DOESN'T......
> 
> Tooooooooo complicated. I think you're setting your self up for trouble.
> 
> If you don't have migranes now....you will.
> 
> Hell, even the airlines charge for EXCESS baggage (and I don't mean the kids)
> 
> Sorry, but there are some things that you don't compromise on...Love is one!
> 
> 
> 
> Nice to meet you.
> 
> Welcome to the forums....


 
your right there are things like love you dont compromise on, i have personally had to make a choice between a daughter and new love. sometimes our exes are mean & nasty beyond words.

so what do you choose? the love of your kids? or the love of a fiancee?


----------



## Spilling Her Heart

pirate_girl said:


> Yup.


 

Nope. I read you loud and clear and commend your for NOT candy coating. 

My hooked on phonics set was A OK as a kiddio


----------



## Erik

Spilling Her Heart said:


> Nope. I read you loud and clear and commend your for NOT candy coating.
> 
> My hooked on phonics set was A OK as a kiddio



cool.
thanks for clarifying - sorry I misread your post.


----------



## pirate_girl

Spilling Her Heart said:


> Nope. I read you loud and clear and commend your for NOT candy coating.
> 
> My hooked on phonics set was A OK as a kiddio


Thanks.
I am not into shit talking for the sake of making anyone happy.
Been there, done that.. bought the t-shirts too much.
Now.. take those ladyballs I know you possess and take the advice you've received here (as well as those of your "real life" non-internet acquaintences) and think about how you'll move forward.
K?


----------



## Spilling Her Heart

BamsBBQ said:


> because as a person with a vendictive,mean,nasty,mean,mean,horribly mean(you see a pattern here?..lol) ex-wife, i can see his point a little bit. i had to do the same thing because everytime i started seeing someone new, my ex would keep me from seeing my daughter. sometimes its just easier to do what you know is not right when it comes to kids and mean exes
> 
> 
> 
> your right there are things like love you dont compromise on, i have personally had to make a choice between a daughter and new love. sometimes our exes are mean & nasty beyond words.
> 
> so what do you choose? the love of your kids? or the love of a fiancee?


 

Well that provides a different take on previous scenario. Problem is that I have yet to see proof of any real vindictive actions. She left him for another man and seems quite content with that man. Some comments she makes can be digs but for the most part a few little digs are no reason to hide in a cave for the next six months.

Thanks for your input


----------



## Spilling Her Heart

Erik said:


> cool.
> thanks for clarifying - sorry I misread your post.


 

LOL... NP.  You people make me laugh even when completely pissed off. 

Thanks for the smiles


----------



## Spilling Her Heart

pirate_girl said:


> Thanks.
> I am not into shit talking for the sake of making anyone happy.
> Been there, done that.. bought the t-shirts too much.
> Now.. take those ladyballs I know you possess and take the advice you've received here (as well as those of your "real life" non-internet acquaintences) and think about how you'll move forward.
> K?


 

Well not to go into too much detail, but I have certainly already polished up the shiny brass ones and put them on display of the window in MY HOME. As that is where I am residing this week. I am thinking things through and he can do the same. I have made my feelings even more clear to him...than on here. Even though he chooses not to see the validity of them.... just yet.


----------



## pirate_girl

Spilling Her Heart said:


> Well not to go into too much detail, but I have certainly already polished up the shiny brass ones and put them on display of the window in MY HOME. As that is where I am residing this week. I am thinking things through and he can do the same. I have made my feelings even more clear to him...than on here. Even though he chooses not to see the validity of them.... just yet.


My final thought:
Good Luck.
I wish you all the best.
Thank you for stopping in by the way.
I always have a bit of question when new people join the forum and start out wanting advice and taking a thread on and on and on like this.
I am confident you are a legit poster who has taken some of us on the emotional ride with you.
For me it's been great to offer the way I feel about the subject.
As for now, I am going to move on and get back to the business at hand.
Again, good luck.


----------



## Erik

Spilling Her Heart said:


> LOL... NP.  You people make me laugh even when completely pissed off.
> 
> Thanks for the smiles



No worries - was not pissed, merely restated the post in terms less easy to misinterpret.
go, play, have fun in the rest of the forum
keep us posted on the relationship if you like


----------



## Spilling Her Heart

pirate_girl said:


> My final thought:
> Good Luck.
> I wish you all the best.
> Thank you for stopping in by the way.
> I always have a bit of question when new people join the forum and start out wanting advice and taking a thread on and on and on like this.
> I am confident you are a legit poster who has taken some of us on the emotional ride with you.
> For me it's been great to offer the way I feel about the subject.
> As for now, I am going to move on and get back to the business at hand.
> Again, good luck.


 
I’ll be honest, I don’t know a lot about forums. But I do know that once you confide in your close friends in person they can take on such a strong opinion of what THEY think you should do that they loose sight of whose decision and whose life this really is. I like the anonymity of not having to really worry about hurting anyone’s feelings if I choose to do as I darn well please. So… this forum seems cool. I will post again when fettered with doubt or simply give my opinion where I might find an interesting topic.


----------



## Spilling Her Heart

Erik said:


> No worries - was not pissed, merely restated the post in terms less easy to misinterpret.
> go, play, have fun in the rest of the forum
> keep us posted on the relationship if you like


 

you may not have been irritated... but I had been going round and round today with Mr. Hidden himself. So I was rather pissed before I got on here and started making light of it.


----------



## Erik

and you did a wonderful job of restraining yourself from venting your frustration on the rest of us!

I also agree - at times it's easier to get (or give) advice from folks with no vested interest in the outcome.


----------



## EastTexFrank

Spilling Her Heart said:


> So goes the old adage that it is easier to give advice than to take it



A truism.  So why waste time and effort giving you the benefit of my experience and wisdom.  You're not going to listen anyway.  You're going to continue letting this guy play you like a violin.

The best advice you've been given came from PG and your girlfriends.  Now do what you were going to do in the first place .... and regret it for the rest of your life.  

Oh, and welcome to the friendly board.


----------



## Spilling Her Heart

Erik said:


> and you did a wonderful job of restraining yourself from venting your frustration on the rest of us!
> 
> I also agree - at times it's easier to get (or give) advice from folks with no vested interest in the outcome.


 
Thanks for the compliment.


----------



## Spilling Her Heart

EastTexFrank said:


> A truism. So why waste time and effort giving you the benefit of my experience and wisdom. You're not going to listen anyway. You're going to continue letting this guy play you like a violin.
> 
> The best advice you've been given came from PG and your girlfriends. Now do what you were going to do in the first place .... and regret it for the rest of your life.
> 
> Oh, and welcome to the friendly board.


 

Thanks friendly. I will certainly do what I ascertain to be the best outcome for me and those that I love. However I do enjoy the input from others even if those opinions aren’t necessarily warm and fuzzy.


----------



## Doc

If you care to continue talking on this ..... I read where you and he are apart this week.  Is that because all this came to a head or something all together different?


----------



## ncroamer65

Welcome to the forum.   
I've read through the thread and the point that stood uot to me was that you are very emotionally envoled with this person, which makes it harder
to look at the other person realisitly(sp). I don't know this person 
personally, I can only draw conclusions by what you say about him.

He appears to have a slinky for a backbone, not a spine when it comes
to the ex and her parents. If the ex is going to be retailite(sp) she will 
 reguardless now or later so get ready. I don't see him standing up for you now or will he ever. My suggestion get premarital counsuling NOW.
Don't wait. This man is hiding something what I don't know.

This is my opionion only based on what you have said. Be Smart.


----------



## Spilling Her Heart

Doc said:


> If you care to continue talking on this ..... I read where you and he are apart this week. Is that because all this came to a head or something all together different?


 
The thing that set me off was spending time with her parents and having to hide the fact that we are engaged. This bothered me a lot. Originally I did say that I didn’t care if she knew right away. I didn’t expect him to send her a “by the way” email or anything. But I didn’t expect to fully live a lie either. The thing that bothers me now is that I feel his is hiding something from me. I find the whole thing suspect. He says that if I love him, that I just need to trust him.


----------



## Spilling Her Heart

ncroamer65 said:


> Welcome to the forum.
> I've read through the thread and the point that stood uot to me was that you are very emotionally envoled with this person, which makes it harder
> to look at the other person realisitly(sp). I don't know this person
> personally, I can only draw conclusions by what you say about him.
> 
> He appears to have a slinky for a backbone, not a spine when it comes
> to the ex and her parents. If the ex is going to be retailite(sp) she will
> reguardless now or later so get ready. I don't see him standing up for you now or will he ever. My suggestion get premarital counsuling NOW.
> Don't wait. This man is hiding something what I don't know.
> 
> This is my opionion only based on what you have said. Be Smart.


 

All of these opinions make perfect sense to me. Why is it that when I present these same ideas to me I am greeted with the idea that I am simply irrational? In his eyes, none of this is a big deal. He thinks that we are simply delaying telling her and that whether she knows or not should not matter so much to me. But it sure seems to matter to him. I said that to him. Then he said I was simply putting up hoops for him to jump through. Now he feels that all I do is make this up as a reason to fight. I really do second guess my own sanity after a conversation with him. 

I think counceling would be a good idea.


----------



## Trakternut

The fact that little alarm bells are going off gives me no reason to question your sanity, nor should you.


ncroamer said this guy's got a slinky for a spine, and he nailed it!  IF your beau is on the up and up, he should be able to tell his ex straight out; "Listen, _______ and I are gonna get married.  What you and I had is done and over with. We still have the kids and that's not gonna change. I expect you to be civil toward her and me. You WILL respect the relationship I have with __________ and stay the  hell out of our affairs."


As a prospective bride, I bet you're just aching to wear that ring everywhere.  You want to proclaim to the entire world; "Look!!! I'm ____________'s woman!"

You have every right to do just that. In fact, grow some hair on your chest and wear it anyway. If he makes a fuss, give it back to him and tell him just *where he can hide it!!!!*

If he's making you suspicious, then he's a suspicious person IMHO.  He's got some proving up to do now, you don't!


----------



## Spilling Her Heart

Well he is incredibly stubborn. He only sees this as a nuisance. I don’t think he would have spent all of that money on a ring if he didn’t care. He brings up the fact that the ring should prove that he does care. His family and everyone… but she and those close to her know already. Other than the kids. His final comment in an email today was that I can see this as a glass half empty or half full. That he loves me and will be there when I decide. He has no intention of proving anything to me. To have to prove anything would simply be a burdensome hoop that I place in front of him in order to entertain myself. This is how he makes it sound at least.


----------



## Trakternut

Proceed With Caution


----------



## Spilling Her Heart

I feel like an inbred puppy chasing my tail on this issue. In fact, he never admits to being wrong on any one subject. Just misunderstood. “I may be saying this out of frustration, but I am truly frustrated”.  I just want to be heard and understood by him. But the only way to be on the same page is to jump onto his page. I can not squash these feelings that he is harboring feelings for her or he would not care what she thinks. He claims it’s “drama” he is avoiding, but who even knows that she would care? She is quite happy in her own life and relationship.  I am not proceeding anywhere at this time… just stuck. I do love him, or I would not be so bothered by it all.


----------



## OhioTC18 RIP

Wow, where do I start. 
Spilling, my situation was little different but oh so familiar when I was divorced and found my new love Phyllis. I think my ex knew we were seeing each other, they worked together and Phyl often babysat my one son.  But we would never be together while I had the kids at my house. OUR choice though, not just mine. My ex was a spiteful woman who left me for a 19 yr old druggie. I did hide a lot from her just to see my son. She would threaten me with no visitation if I looked cross eyed. My ex-Mother in Law knew her daughter was going down a bad road.

Eventually I introduced the boys to her a little at a time. They loved her. They couldn't wait to be around her. When we discussed maybe getting married after a year or so, it was Phyl who said, "What will the boys say? Is it okay with them? Should we ask them?" So we did. They wanted nothing more. They even had a part in the wedding where they were asked permission from the preacher for us to get married. That was so cool.

Then my ex moved him out of state the next day for 3 years. As pissed as Phyl was, she bit her tongue as I let my ex dictate every freaking thing that happened. I just needed to see my son once a year. Once they got back to our town, somehow Phyl helped me polish off my man balls and straightened my back bone. I took a stand and set down some rules.


Fast forward a few years. My ex and her Mom were at our house for Christmas and all other celebrations for years. My ex developed cancer. Phyl was with me at her side each and every time she went to the hospital. When Kim passed away, I was at her side with Phyl holding one hand and me holding the other.

My son was the reason we were there, but she was still family as well. He still tells me thanks for being there with him.

I guess what I'm trying to get across is, don't give up on him. He may be weak spined, but you have a place in his new life too that he needs to recognize. The kids have already recognized this. And it seems they endorse it. My opinion? Tell the ex what you have in mind. And her family. Do it together. 

BTW, Phyl still calls my ex-MIL Mom. And she still comes to the house when she's able. Phyl and I celebrated 20 years of marriage this year.


----------



## Spilling Her Heart

OhioTC18 said:


> Wow, where do I start.
> Spilling, my situation was little different but oh so familiar when I was divorced and found my new love Phyllis. I think my ex knew we were seeing each other, they worked together and Phyl often babysat my one son. But we would never be together while I had the kids at my house. OUR choice though, not just mine. My ex was a spiteful woman who left me for a 19 yr old druggie. I did hide a lot from her just to see my son. She would threaten me with no visitation if I looked cross eyed. My ex-Mother in Law knew her daughter was going down a bad road.
> 
> Eventually I introduced the boys to her a little at a time. They loved her. They couldn't wait to be around her. When we discussed maybe getting married after a year or so, it was Phyl who said, "What will the boys say? Is it okay with them? Should we ask them?" So we did. They wanted nothing more. They even had a part in the wedding where they were asked permission from the preacher for us to get married. That was so cool.
> 
> Then my ex moved him out of state the next day for 3 years. As pissed as Phyl was, she bit her tongue as I let my ex dictate every freaking thing that happened. I just needed to see my son once a year. Once they got back to our town, somehow Phyl helped me polish off my man balls and straightened my back bone. I took a stand and set down some rules.
> 
> 
> Fast forward a few years. My ex and her Mom were at our house for Christmas and all other celebrations for years. My ex developed cancer. Phyl was with me at her side each and every time she went to the hospital. When Kim passed away, I was at her side with Phyl holding one hand and me holding the other.
> 
> My son was the reason we were there, but she was still family as well. He still tells me thanks for being there with him.
> 
> I guess what I'm trying to get across is, don't give up on him. He may be weak spined, but you have a place in his new life too that he needs to recognize. The kids have already recognized this. And it seems they endorse it. My opinion? Tell the ex what you have in mind. And her family. Do it together.
> 
> BTW, Phyl still calls my ex-MIL Mom. And she still comes to the house when she's able. Phyl and I celebrated 20 years of marriage this year.


 

This is where I am torn. If he is really spineless for the sake of the kids I could perhaps swallow my pride and be a little more understanding. But when the ex starts texting and calling about things that don't pertain to the kids I get suspicious as to HIS intentions by allowing this. I draw the line at what effects the kids and what seems to be just plain pointless @$$ kissing. I have asked him until I am blue in the face to just tell me if he can't let her go. I am not a troll, and he is not the last good man on the planet. But he swears that he loves me and only me. The confusion for me is that his words and actions contradict each other so.


----------



## Trakternut

Spilling Her Heart said:


> This is where I am torn. If he is really spineless for the sake of the kids I could perhaps swallow my pride and be a little more understanding. But when the ex starts texting and calling about things that don't pertain to the kids I get suspicious as to HIS intentions by allowing this. I draw the line at what effects the kids and what seems to be just plain pointless @$$ kissing. I have asked him until I am blue in the face to just tell me if he can't let her go. I am not a troll, and he is not the last good man on the planet. But he swears that he loves me and only me. The confusion for me is that *his words and actions contradict each other* so.




We have a bingo!!!


----------



## Durwood RIP

Ok, take this with a grain of salt since it is coming from a guy who never had luck with women, but i think he is getting the milk for free and needs cut off right now. Cut him off and see what changes. Can i ask are u two about the same age? And have u been married before? I didn't read everybodys comment so forgive me if that has been asked. And welcome to the forums.


----------



## Spilling Her Heart

Durwood said:


> Ok, take this with a grain of salt since it is coming from a guy who never had luck with women, but i think he is getting the milk for free and needs cut off right now. Cut him off and see what changes. Can i ask are u two about the same age? And have u been married before? I didn't read everybodys comment so forgive me if that has been asked. And welcome to the forums.


 

I am 35 and he is 38. We have both been married before. I don't have as close a relationship with my ex as he does with his. My ex lives about 5 hours away where his lives 15 minutes away. My daughter is 18 and the communication with her father is nada. Where as his two daughters are 6 and 8. His divorce is also quite a bit more "fresh" than mine.


----------



## pirate_girl

Final thought:
Throw the bastard to the curb.
Go out and talk with your girlfriends over a nice meal.
Start over.
The End.


----------



## Trakternut

pirate_girl said:


> Final thought:
> Throw the bastard to the curb.
> Go out and talk with your girlfriends over a nice meal.
> Start over.
> The End.




Nuther Bingo!


----------



## EastTexFrank

Spilling Her Heart said:


> He says that if I love him, that I just need to trust him.



Now where have I heard that before???  Oh yes, it was me.  In my dark and dingy past, during my playboy phase, I must have used it a thousand times.  It worked about 80% of the time which isn't bad.  It meant that I got laid 4 times out of 5.  I'm sorry but I don't have a very high opinion of your boyfriend.  He's a manipulator.  JMHO.


----------



## pirate_girl

EastTexFrank said:


> He's a manipulator.  JMHO.


Ya think so Frank?


----------



## pirate_girl

Sorry, but am I the only one who is raising question over this whole thing/thread?
Woman joins public forum for "Agony Aunt" advice.
Woman during getting said advice from various members takes time to post pics of herself, ring etc..
All well and good.
Said woman comes back another day to ask for more advice when honest to God, that time would have been more fruitfully spent talking to those in her own back yard if situation was as desperate as it seems.
Just my opinion.
Maybe I am feeling exhausted after last nights "advice"..
Still, 'net searchers who join forums in this manner always put a huge question in my small brain, and they always will.


----------



## pirate_girl

Spilling Her Heart said:


> all I do is make this up as a reason


...........


----------



## ncroamer65

Another point of interest about divorced people is they tend to feel more comfortable around personalies they were married to. 

What bugs you now in this relationship will bug you after the marriage.
He's sees no reason to change so why should he.  
Manipulators always make you feel like you have a problem not them.
An old saying comes to mind "Love is deaf and blind" and I see this
in couples that talk about relationships and marriages. No offence
intended. 
What you see in my posts was learned over 20 years ago and 
are still relivant. 
If you buy a house, car, or other major items we do research. Why
not what goes into marragies to help them work.
Marrage is a relationship that requires 150% from both partners.
I still suggest counseling for you even if he refuses to go, which
might show is his love real.


----------



## Doc

pirate_girl said:


> Sorry, but am I the only one who is raising question over this whole thing/thread?
> Woman joins public forum for "Agony Aunt" advice.
> Woman during getting said advice from various members takes time to post pics of herself, ring etc..
> All well and good.
> Said woman comes back another day to ask for more advice when honest to God, that time would have been more fruitfully spent talking to those in her own back yard if situation was as desperate as it seems.
> Just my opinion.
> Maybe I am feeling exhausted after last nights "advice"..
> Still, 'net searchers who join forums in this manner always put a huge question in my small brain, and they always will.


I have to disagree PG.  If someone is having issues and needs somewhere to talk things out the internet is perfect. Like someone else already posted you can get opinions from folks who are not affected by the outcome.  They'll tell you what they think of it without other issues getting in the way.  It is what forums are for.  
All advice is just that, advice.  The same you could get at a neighborhood BBQ or over a backyard fence.  Except lots of others can join in on the conversation.  
I suspect she has already talked to those in her backyard (from what she has posted) and is frustrated to death of this situation and putting out feelers to see if indeed she is the problem or not.  
I hope she was helped by the honest opinions of our members.


----------



## pirate_girl

Doc said:


> I hope she was helped by the honest opinions of our members.


Yeah, me too.


----------



## Spilling Her Heart

Trakternut said:


> Nuther Bingo!


 
If I ran with my tail between my legs every time any personal relationship showed the slightest bit of adversity I wouldn’t have any girlfriends either. I try and fully weigh all sides before picking one. Granted I don’t like his approach on this and certain things have made me feel slighted and uncomfortable. I am an extremely analytical person, something I see you people can relate to ;-)  So is retrospect I may make mountains out of molehills or simply see the semi truck lights at the end of the tunnel. Who knows for sure with speculation you are left with just that…guessing. I do take the time to explain all of how I feel to him. And sometimes we go round and round trying to show the other how valid our point is. For him.. he believes his point is about the happiness of his children. The happiness of their mother can affect all involved. On my side, I believe that my feelings should be equally valid. He has since acknowledged that and told me to keep the ring on at all times. When and if she asks directly he will give her an honest answer. He would like to make it casual and not a big event. So he is not exactly going to announce it to her if it isn’t brought up. 

All of your advice has been sincerly weighed and grately appreciated. Thank you


----------



## Spilling Her Heart

pirate_girl said:


> Sorry, but am I the only one who is raising question over this whole thing/thread?
> Woman joins public forum for "Agony Aunt" advice.
> Woman during getting said advice from various members takes time to post pics of herself, ring etc..
> All well and good.
> Said woman comes back another day to ask for more advice when honest to God, that time would have been more fruitfully spent talking to those in her own back yard if situation was as desperate as it seems.
> Just my opinion.
> Maybe I am feeling exhausted after last nights "advice"..
> Still, 'net searchers who join forums in this manner always put a huge question in my small brain, and they always will.


 
Since I am a career person my friends revolve around my office. I am not in a position that I can discuss personal matters like this with office pals. My direct family is limited to my 18 year old daughter, so I won’t be burdening her for advice either. I have no living relatives left. My best friend is his sister… so unbiased my not be an option there either. But she does see the validity of my point. This leaves the forum that I chose because I didn’t want any of this to conflict with my day to day life.


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## Spilling Her Heart

pirate_girl said:


> Yeah, me too.


 

I really do appreciate your time. Thank you


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## Spilling Her Heart

ncroamer65 said:


> Another point of interest about divorced people is they tend to feel more comfortable around personalies they were married to.
> 
> What bugs you now in this relationship will bug you after the marriage.
> He's sees no reason to change so why should he.
> Manipulators always make you feel like you have a problem not them.
> An old saying comes to mind "Love is deaf and blind" and I see this
> in couples that talk about relationships and marriages. No offence
> intended.
> What you see in my posts was learned over 20 years ago and
> are still relivant.
> If you buy a house, car, or other major items we do research. Why
> not what goes into marragies to help them work.
> Marrage is a relationship that requires 150% from both partners.
> I still suggest counseling for you even if he refuses to go, which
> might show is his love real.


 
We agreed on many things before even discussing marriage and premarital counseling was one of them. We are not rushing into this and each step forward can come easy or be a process of negotiation. We have the same views on most issues but can certainly have our moments of a difference in opinion.


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## Spilling Her Heart

EastTexFrank said:


> Now where have I heard that before??? Oh yes, it was me. In my dark and dingy past, during my playboy phase, I must have used it a thousand times. It worked about 80% of the time which isn't bad. It meant that I got laid 4 times out of 5. I'm sorry but I don't have a very high opinion of your boyfriend. He's a manipulator. JMHO.


 

Only he knows if he can be really trust worthy. I can not follow him around 24/7 to validate the things he is trying to tell me.    Time shows all…and since we are taking our time these things should come to light before any real commitment has been made. We have been dating 3 years and will not actually be married for another 2. We both own homes and have obligations.


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## EastTexFrank

pirate_girl said:


> Ya think so Frank?



Yup.  He's stringing her along as a steady source of nookey until something better comes along.  It's taken him 3 years to get to this point and no firm commitment for at least another 2 years.  That sounds like unbridled love and passion to me.  

I really need to write that book about the male psyche called, *"THE GAME", what every young man should know and what every young woman MUST know.   *The first line would be, " A man, especially a young man, will do anything, say anything, be anybody you want in order to get laid".  It's a bit cynical but in my life's experience it's true far more often than it's not. 

I'm sure all of our female members have met the type at some time in their lives.


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## Cowboyjg

Is this person a troll?

         I'm with PG on this one. I too, thought that and still wonder but won't dwell because that sort of thing doesn't bother me like it does some. For me it's kinda like changing the channel. Click.

I think it's important to keep in mind that we may never know the outcome of this person's adventure. 

Hidden....you have become somewhat redundant in your defense of your approach and as much as I respect your choice to do with your life what you will, that fence post must be getting awfully uncomfortable by now. 

One part of me believes that secretly you'd like to wake up tomorrow and have had all this be nothing more than a bad dream. The other part says this is all a set up. Neither one of these will keep me from sleeping well, so to quote a famous red headed brat....

Good luck.


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## Spilling Her Heart

Cowboyjg said:


> Is this person a troll?
> 
> I'm with PG on this one. I too, thought that and still wonder but won't dwell because that sort of thing doesn't bother me like it does some. For me it's kinda like changing the channel. Click.
> 
> I think it's important to keep in mind that we may never know the outcome of this person's adventure.
> 
> Hidden....you have become somewhat redundant in your defense of your approach and as much as I respect your choice to do with your life what you will, that fence post must be getting awfully uncomfortable by now.
> 
> One part of me believes that secretly you'd like to wake up tomorrow and have had all this be nothing more than a bad dream. The other part says this is all a set up. Neither one of these will keep me from sleeping well, so to quote a famous red headed brat....
> 
> Good luck.


 

What's a troll?  

I am comfortable with my approach. I was looking for opinions to help me see clearly outside of my own perspective. I got those opinions and thanks. 


A set up? For what? I'm being set up? You? What is the set up and who is to gain from it? Conspiracy theorist?


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## Spilling Her Heart

EastTexFrank said:


> Yup. He's stringing her along as a steady source of nookey until something better comes along. It's taken him 3 years to get to this point and no firm commitment for at least another 2 years. That sounds like unbridled love and passion to me.
> 
> I really need to write that book about the male psyche called, *"THE GAME", what every young man should know and what every young woman MUST know. *The first line would be, " A man, especially a young man, will do anything, say anything, be anybody you want in order to get laid". It's a bit cynical but in my life's experience it's true far more often than it's not.
> 
> I'm sure all of our female members have met the type at some time in their lives.


 
That is some VERY expensive nookie. I feel completely jipped now on the nookie given sans diamond ring in the past. I didn’t know that’s how it works….Should have read that book!


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## Spilling Her Heart

Cowboyjg said:


> Is this person a troll?
> 
> I'm with PG on this one. I too, thought that and still wonder but won't dwell because that sort of thing doesn't bother me like it does some. For me it's kinda like changing the channel. Click.
> 
> I think it's important to keep in mind that we may never know the outcome of this person's adventure.
> 
> Hidden....you have become somewhat redundant in your defense of your approach and as much as I respect your choice to do with your life what you will, that fence post must be getting awfully uncomfortable by now.
> 
> One part of me believes that secretly you'd like to wake up tomorrow and have had all this be nothing more than a bad dream. The other part says this is all a set up. Neither one of these will keep me from sleeping well, so to quote a famous red headed brat....
> 
> Good luck.


 

OK... sorry for being so dumb when it comes to forums. I have NEVER been on one before. My intentions were honest. Just wanted a third opinion. By the way.. no need to explain "troll".  I asked my man and he laughed. Since he is more privy to the forum lingo than I. I have since been educated and no, I am not a troll. Sorry to have stirred anyone up.


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## nixon

^^^ no need to apologize . I really doubt that anyone here seriously considers You to be a Troll . Most likely ,they don't understand Your situation .


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## Spilling Her Heart

Awe... thanks Nixon.


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## Doc

Like Nixon said, no need to apologize.  We've been around since 2005 and seen lots of trolls.  I sure did not think you were a troll, but someone looking for some other opinions.  To see if they matched up with yours or your fiances.  
I've kept up with the thread.  Of all the suggestions, counseling sounds like the best one of all.  And like someone pointed out, even if your fiance will not participate it would most likely do you good to go on your own.  
Good luck and  keep us posted of things when you can.


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## jpr62902

EastTexFrank said:


> Yup. He's stringing her along as a steady source of nookey until something better comes along. It's taken him 3 years to get to this point and no firm commitment for at least another 2 years. That sounds like unbridled love and passion to me.
> 
> I really need to write that book about the male psyche called, *"THE GAME", what every young man should know and what every young woman MUST know. *The first line would be, " A man, especially a young man, will do anything, say anything, be anybody you want in order to get laid". It's a bit cynical but in my life's experience it's true far more often than it's not.
> 
> I'm sure all of our female members have met the type at some time in their lives.


 
Hayzoose, Frank.  How long has it been since you've been in the dating game?

They're both divorced and in their mid 30's, not early 20's.  People are much more cautious at this point in their lives.

The guy's probably just trying to walk a perceived tightrope as best as he knows how.

And to SHH, welcome to FF and bless you for your patience with both your fiance and Frank.


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## EastTexFrank

Times change, technology changes but not human nature.  

I think I partially agree with PG.  I think she is stringing us all along.  Goodbye.


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## Spilling Her Heart

Things are going a bit better. We have talked through my concerns and he has expressed his own. There was a minor hoop that she wanted him to jump through this week and he declined only to have it backfire in a little retaliation. Hmm... perhaps he is right?  Maybe there is no right or wrong. Maybe there just has to be a common ground for all to find by working through it as we go? I don't know guys. But thanks so much for listening, and voicing your opinions. Even you Sushine-EastTex


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