# What do you guys think of the Kioti loader problems?



## JayC

I went through that whole thread and this sounds to be a serious issue. It sounds like just about every Kioti CK series owner has cracks in their loaders. I wonder if Kioti will do anything about it?


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## LarryRB

They're going to have to, simply because whoever the supplier is, there is obviously weak metal or something wrong in the mfg process that is weakening the metal. This isn't one or two machines, but a whole bunch...


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## Dargo

It's been discussed, and buried, for several years about the high percentage of...well; let's call it less expensive, steel in their products.  That was one of the first things that came up when the whole "heavy" thing was a selling point for Kioti.  Lesser quality steel is cheaper to buy and you have to use more of it to gain a similar amount of strength as higher quality steel.  Several over thar seem to want to believe that there are no differences in steel.  In other words, several there think that steel is steel; there are no differences in strength.

Unfortunately I think it will not only show up in the loader, but in several other areas over the years as the tractors age.  One very important factor with steel is how well it resists stress cracks and how the alloy resists the crack from becoming a fracture.  Many people know that I looked at several different brands of tractors last year.  When doing any type of research on the steel and metal provider and the alloy of steel used, I noticed the same "code" word in the sales pitch.  It made me think of cattle.  Can you guess the word?  Anyway, there are several brands that brag about the weight of their tractor.  As noted in several previous threads, the least expensive tractor I know of (I won't list it, but it is not Kioti) is one of the heaviest tractors.  Besides the issue of 'is there enough additional steel there to make up for the inherent weakness of the alloy of steel used', is the issue of is there enough hp to move the tractor effectively.  Again, this is another issue that is quickly swept under the rug at certain places.

Opinions are opinions, but facts are facts.  When I buy a particular grade of welding rod, it has particular properties and strengths.  The same goes for steel.  Do you know how many grades of aluminum and stainless there are?  Just because something is made of stainless or made of aluminum, don't assume that they are always equal.  For example, if you get a magnet to stick to a chunk of stainless steel, it generally is a poor quality of stainless.  Yes, it is still stainless steel, but it is most likely an inferior grade.  I'm no expert in metallurgy, but since my father has been a welder and ironworker for around 45 years, I've grown up around the terminology and have learned that not all things are equal.

Back to your question, Kioti will have to do something about their loader.  It most likely was drawn up on a quality CAD program and properly designed.  However, someone along the line figured that they could save tens of thousands of dollars if they bought steel from supplier "X" rather than supplier "Y".  The problem is that the CAD program and design was created using the specs of the steel product from supplier "X".  When the supplier was substituted to supplier "Y", all seemed fine until these issues began to surface.  Believe me, this will not be the last issue with this manufacturer as well as several other manufacturers.  In the world of steel suppliers, there are many very upset, and unemployed, steel workers and manufacturers because of the lower price of steel that comes out of China.  Don't get me wrong and think that all steel coming out of China is of poor quality, but don't be fooled into thinking that they cannot make a product that appears fine but has had many corners cut in the manufacturing process.  If you do some Google and Ask and Yahoo searches on steel and metallurgy, you will find years and year’s worth of reading on the subject.  Remember, if you can save a few hundred dollars in the cost of steel in the manufacturing of a tractor; just think how much that translates out to on tens of thousands of units.

In the end, it's up to the consumers to make the choices.  Some will be "good enough" and there will be no issues.  Others will begin to fail right away, like the Kioti loaders.  Still others yet will take a few years for the fatigue factor to set in before they begin to fail.  It will be interesting.  Since I'm no expert in metallurgy and have no desire to spend 4 years of my life learning about such, I will tend to stick with what I consider more of a sure bet.  Oh well, it will be interesting over the next few years...


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## DaveNay

Dargo said:
			
		

> It most likely was drawn up on a quality CAD program and properly designed.



Most likely this is correct, however it is also possible this is their Edsal or Veranzano Narrows bridge.


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## Melensdad

I think, and have consistently stated, that it is a design flaw.  I've looked at lots of loaders, none are built quite the same as the curved arm Kioti loaders.  

Modern curved arm loaders are made for or by Case/New Holland, Rhino, Montana and Kioti.  Only Kioti has breached the cross support and weakened it (substantially) with three large holes.  On each end are circlular holes that act as entry/exit points for the hydraulic hoses.  In the center is a large access hole that removes about 40% of the metal from the back side of the cross brace.  

The combination of removing all that metal results in a loader that has substantially more tortional flex than the metal can withstand.  Therefore it cracks.

It is my understanding that the early loaders were made in Korea.  It is my understanding that the current loaders are American made.  The newer loaders seem to be more of a problem.  It is possibly they are made with a lighter gauge steel or a different type of steel.

In any case, I don't have any faith in Kioti stepping up to do the right thing . . . at least not until they are forced to do it.  I was in possession of emails from a Kioti owner who had his CK20 HST fixed (do any of you remember the threads about weak HSTs on CK20s?)  He was told that he could not publicly release the information of how his HST was fixed.  Kioti did not do a 'proper' fix, their factory guy essentially capped off his relief valve with a heavy spring so it runs over pressure.  Further, instead of sending out a notice to their dealers, the repair guy apparently told him that they will only fix the units that people complain about.

Given that, I have no faith that they will do the right thing with these loaders.  JMO

What I don't understand is how they could build some very nice units (the DK 35/40/45 series) that are as trouble free as they are, but drop the ball so badly with the CK series?


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## Melensdad

Oh and by the way, there is one post that is etched into my memory, made by KiotiJohn on April 4.  And as he is the self proclaimed #1 Kioti booster, and as he has helped write some of the manuals, and as he visits the US corporate offices, etc etc etc then I'm sure they are well aware of the loader problem, and I'd guess he discussed this with some folks at the corporate office to come up with the conclusions below (*bold* and *italics* added for emphasis).
. . . they would deal with loaders of the same problem on a piece by piece basis,* hoping that warranties would be out by the time it showed up.  Any company would probably proceed this way. . .*

​


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## messickfarmequ

Yea... its the whole "every company would be this way" thing that really ticks me off. I can tell you that ALO, Bradco, Woods, Kubota, New Holland, Case IH, and Bush Hog have never asked us to weld any of their products and call it an acceptable warrenty repair. Infact if you look at our shelf of warrenty parts you'll find a Kubota LA211 that was miswelded, that could have been cut and fixed - but it was replaced.


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## Melensdad

I've traded several emails with Highbeam.  I'm not sure if he likes me or not, but I do know that I felt it necessary to apologize to him for 'engaging' KJ in an argument within Highbeam's loader thread.  So Joe got my apology.

I also know that KJ has a history of downplaying every problem until it become so obvious to the whole world that the problem is real that he can't ignore it, then he somehow magically resolves the problem, posts that he took care of it, and while that seems to solve the problem, I believe it only solves the problem for the ONE guy he helped.

What happens to all the other loaders out there that are owned by people who are not TBN members and have not looked, but now have cracks?  Will the manufacturer step up and send out a letter to the customers and inform them to look?  Or will they quietly fix all the complaints and hope most people don't look until after the crack is so big that it is obvious without removal of the cover?  And what happens after the 1 year warrenty period if the crack is not noticed, but in fact started before that period ends?


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## bczoom

B_Skurka said:
			
		

> What happens to all the other loaders out there that are owned by people who are not TBN members and have not looked, but now have cracks?


I've notified 2 myself.

BTW - I didn't see it in that thread but is there a safety issue there?  What would happen if it got really big cracks?


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## Dargo

Hey Bob, did you see the post where KeeotiJohn (wouldn't that translate into a 'big toilet'?) said that he was sorry that I mentioned the thread where HB, Bob, and Dargo were Keeoti bullies?  He said that HB was not a Keeoti basher but implied that Bob and Dargo are just Keeoti bashers.

I think KeeotiJohn has some sort of complex because he is the ring leader of the fan club for Keeoti but yet only owns an overweight lawn tractor!  I'm serious.  Look at the hp rating on any decent sized lawn tractor or any commercial sized zero turn radius lawn mower and they have more power than his pride and joy.  Besides that, they have several hundred pounds less weight to sling around.

I wonder how those idiots who kept lying and saying that they saved $5000 over buying a Kubota and bought their Keeoti feel now that their underpowered overweight overpriced knock-off's are starting to come apart?  I'm specifically talking about drool, unionautoidiot, tbdonnley, keeoti(anybody).  And, yes, HB is one of those who were leading the group saying that he saved $5000 over a similar Kubota and got a better tractor.  Sorry, but I really don't care what brand tractor someone buys, but when they make it their goal in life to try to run down every other brand of tractor and brag about false savings on their tractor, I feel that they are getting what they deserve.  I think that is why there is more fighting in the Keeoti forum there than all others combined.

I do realize that there are a lot of good people who got taken by all the BS spouted there and paid more than what a major brand would have cost, but I still blame the KioIdiots for doing that to them.  I still think that is why it seems that 90% of the Keeoti owners are first time buyers or first time modern tractor owners.  Hopefully Kioti will make it because I'd honestly hate to see all those good people being left orphaned, but it wouldn't hurt my feelings to see those who have named their first child Keeoti get knocked back to reality.  Just think about it, why is there more fighting in the Kioti forum than all other brands combined?  It has to be the people.  I personally feel that the Kioti tractors are on par with a Branson or Montana, and you don't see those other guys out attacking all other brands.


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## DaveNay

B_Skurka said:
			
		

> I've traded several emails with Highbeam.  I'm not sure if he likes me or not, but I do know that I felt it necessary to apologize to him for 'engaging' KJ in an argument within Highbeam's loader thread.  So Joe got my apology.



What I don't understand is, who is KiotiJohn?  How does he have the authority/power to make statements like:



			
				KiotiJohn said:
			
		

> I just got off the phone with Kioti's service manager.
> Highbeam's loader boom will be replaced, it's on its way to the dealer.



That sure sounds like someone of authority at Kioti corporate, and yet he says in the same thread that Kioti doesn't have the time to be bothered with cutomer issues because they are too busy moving their offices, installing new computers and selling tractors.


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## Melensdad

Dargo said:
			
		

> Hey Bob, did you see the post where KeeotiJohn (wouldn't that translate into a 'big toilet'?) said that he was sorry that I mentioned the thread where HB, Bob, and Dargo were Keeoti bullies?  He said that HB was not a Keeoti basher but implied that Bob and Dargo are just Keeoti bashers.


I saw it and figured it was just the same old shit he always says so I ignored it.  

Heck if he wants to see 'bashing' he should read what I wrote about the "Why Blue is Better" website in two threads over in the New Holland forum.  Or he should dig up some of the things I've written about the loaders that Kubota puts on the B series tractors.  I'm an equal opportunity jerk, willing to bash any and every brand.  Or to get into specific models, I've pretty well trashed the NH TC30, the JD790 and the Kubota L2800 Gear tractors a few dozen times.

But SOME brands ARE WORSE than other brands.  Go to the Montana thread I started here.  GEEZZZZZ are those pieces of crap tractors!!! JMO

Some companies make a decent machine but then seemingly duck problems.  Kubota makes pretty nice tractors, and they seem to stand behind them too.  Maybe that is why they have a 60% market share!?!





			
				bczoom said:
			
		

> BTW - I didn't see it in that thread but is there a safety issue there?  What would happen if it got really big cracks?


I dunno.  But the words "_*catostrophic failure*_" come to mind.  Would you want to be operating the loader if/when it split apart?




			
				DaveNay said:
			
		

> What I don't understand is, who is KiotiJohn?


 He's just a tractor owner who loves the brand.  He's helped write some of their manuals.  He's test driven everything they make.  He visits the US corporate headquarters, he acts as an 'unofficial' liasion between TBN members and the company.  He swears at me on a regular basis.  And when I quote him 'in context' he swears I am manipulating/twisting his words.  He does know the tractors inside and out, and that is a fair and honest compliment.


_EDIT:  by the way, its interesting that I've gotten a bunch of PMs over at TBN from people about how I stayed objective in the whole thread.  All complimented me.  And the interesting part is that every one of them came from people I've never corresponded with.  Most also seemed to be experienced operators who basically said that they feel KJ is "blinded" by the brand and while he helps some people, he probably hurts the brand more than he helps it because he is so biased/blinded (their words, not mine) that he can't see a real problem when it bites him in the nose._


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## BigAl RIP

Hey Guy’s ,
I am probably going to stir the pot here a little ,but I own a Kioti and have been quite happy with it . It is a DK45TLB . I have owned many brands of tractors. I have about 35 years in the construction business .The last tractor was a Kubota . It was a damn fine tractor . When I sold it with my company and retired, I decided to get a new one for my ranch . I headed straight for the local Kubota dealer . I don’t remember the exact price now but it was about $8,000.00 more for a Grand L over a DK45 that was comparable to the horse power I wanted . That was way outta line . The local Kubota Dealer even told me that if I tried to buy a Kubota anywhere else and bring it in her sales area she would put her Kubota competition out of business as it was illegal to sell in someone else’s area !!! That one statement turned me off Kubota and pushed me toward Kioti .I was willing to drive to Texas to pick mine up and saved another $6000 over the local Kioti dealers price .That’s about $14,000 dollars difference over a local Kubota price !!!! Since the tractor was headed to Idaho anyway ,not buying locally in California did not bother me .I do my own maintance anyway .I have no warranty issues, it runs fine and has done everything I have asked of it . 
Do I have any complaints with my Kioti ???? Just one . I wish the #1590 loader would roll back more . I still carry a full bucket ,but my old Kubota had more roll back and I am use to that .But I knew it had a roll back issue when I bought it but did not consider it a deal breaker . Did I ever have any issues with my Kubota ???? You bet I did . The 3ph on the backhoe attach really sucked . 
I don’t think I am a Kioti “Idiot” as some are saying here, but I did not retire at 47 by throwing good money away on the name brand . I was also a TBN member and have seen and read all the post that were posted about resale, trade in ,durability . fit , finish and so on .I researched , read , test drove and priced many brands before making my decision to buy a Kioti but it could have been another tractor brand I now own , if another brand had come out on top . 
Now if there is, and it *appears to me that there is *a design defect on the loader , Kioti should fix it right .Not half ass it . I agree with you guys . 
But I would still buy another DK45 Kioti after owning one .There are some brands out there that are giving Kubota a run for there money and I believe competition is a good thing .
Oh! And I will not knock a Kubota , it is a damn fine tractor . It just was not for me after I finished comparing it to other brands and getting the runaround by the local Kubota dealer . If your happy with your tractor and the price you paid what else really matters ? 
In that respect ,maybe that Kubota dealer did me a favor by pissing me off with her price or I would not of ever started comparing other brands and prices .


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## bczoom

BigAl.

From what I've experienced, the DK series are fine tractors.

I believe this loader issue (and other issues) relate only to the CK series.

Brian


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## LarryRB

BigAl said:
			
		

> Hey Guy’s ,
> I am probably going to stir the pot here a little ,but I own a Kioti and have been quite happy with it . It is a DK45TLB . I have owned many brands of tractors. I have about 35 years in the construction business .The last tractor was a Kubota . It was a damn fine tractor .  .


similar to your predicament, I priced L 48 Kubota TLB's all over New England area. All the dealers were "way out there", as most wanted list price, plus. The biggest thing that bothered me most is, no two list prices are the same. I saw as many as three identical 48's in one long day between as many dealers, and all three had radically different list prices.... Here's one of the big problems with Kubota corporate. If they say list is (X), then it should be the same no matter what dealer is called. Add to list, another hefty mark up, and they became unreachable. Searching around, someone told me to call Messick. Next thing I know, Neil started posting on TBN.  One phone call to Neil, a few faxes, and I have a new 48. I say on various posts ten thousand saved, I shouldn't lie like that because in actuallity, it is somewhere between 8 and 9 thousand. Still, it is mega thousands below any northeast dealer,, The other thing I find odd, but am not complaining, the local dealers have poor stock. I get my parts from Neil and they are always next day delivery, and including shipping, are still cheaper than buying here. These old yankee's just can't adapt to todays way of business.


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## Gatorboy

JayC said:
			
		

> I went through that whole thread and this sounds to be a serious issue.


 
What thread would that be?


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## JayC

Gatorboy said:
			
		

> What thread would that be?



http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/.../889502/page/0/view/collapsed/sb/5/fpart/1/o/


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## Melensdad

Al, I've had nothing but compliments for the Cub Cadet 8000 series tractors which are rebadged Kioti DK 35/40/45 tractors.  (although I wish they had HST trannys).  I don't see this as an attack on the brand, the DKs or the LKs.  What it is, however, is a frank and honest discussion of the problem with the CK loaders, and how Kioti has responded and will respond to this problem.


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## Cityboy

I'm still amazed at both sides the Kioti "controversy"! I guess it was one of the catylists for FF being started, so some good does come out of silliness sometimes. People can pick the most incredible things to argue and get pissed off about. 

When I was tractor shopping, I looked at the Kioti line at a dealer in my home town. They looked good and appeared very well built. I really liked the cab models. But the price was right in line with Deere, Kubota and New Holland. Had I had the opportunity to save $8-10,000 over one of the big three, I would have bought one. They would certainly sell a lot more tractors if they would drop the price here. If the lesser known costs the same as the name brand, why take the risk?

Anyway, you guys give me a chuckle the way you all carry on about Kioti's.


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## spiffywebcreations

actually Bob, in the begining you could have been classified as a "hater" but I'd  have to say you are probably the most objective person in regards to ANY brand...all your posts are concise and factual...


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## BigAl RIP

B_Skurka said:
			
		

> Al, I've had nothing but compliments for the Cub Cadet 8000 series tractors which are rebadged Kioti DK 35/40/45 tractors. (although I wish they had HST trannys). I don't see this as an attack on the brand, the DKs or the LKs. What it is, however, is a frank and honest discussion of the problem with the CK loaders, and how Kioti has responded and will respond to this problem.


 
I agree 100% Bob . If Kioti has a design problem with their loader . FIX IT RIGHT . I would expect that the big 3 or 4 tractor makers would do this in a heart beat . 
I just kinda wondered how the thread changed from a loader design defect and a Company's slow response to *Kioti* *Idiots who self proclaim greatness from their Kioti *. I have been PMed and now understand . I really don't care what brand it is as long as it works as intended and advertized . 

Ok , My work is done here  . I need to get back to the Snow Trac/ Kristi section so I can keep insulting Snot Trac owners everywhere . And NO it is not the same thing  !


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## Melensdad

While I did not write the "Kioti Idiots . . . " stuff, I can tell you that there are a couple Kioti owners who, no matter what, loudly proclaim their brand as the best for EVERY situation, loudly proclaim their brand as cheapest in price, as best quality, blah blah blah.  

Reality is no brand is best/cheapest/whatever in every situation.

But there is a group of guys who loudly proclaim "_I have 37 (or 52 etc) hours on my machine and . . ._ "  These same guys have no other experience on any other modern CUT, most have no other tractor experience at all, some only on an antique Ford 8N or similar.  Those guys, and only those guys, are the Kioti Idiots.


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## LarryRB

B_Skurka said:
			
		

> Reality is no brand is best/cheapest/whatever in every situation. .


 
But, there is, Bob, the L 48 can do anything with everything


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## jwstewar

I'll probably be attacked for this but, oh well.

When I was looking for a tractor I was set on a Kubota. But I kept hearing more and more about the Kiotis - wonder where from? Anyway, after a bunch of searching I found there were a couple of dealers pretty close. One only a few miles away. The other about 45 miles away. I went to the close one to see one and I also knew this is where my neighbor bought his 36 HP Long. I saw he had the Kioti signs/banners, but no Kiotis only Long/Landtrac and a bunch of used stuff. Now this is a small outfit - almost a one man band type show, but he has been in business forever and has a pretty good rep. I started talking to him and his comment was, "I've quit carrying them. Their quality wasn't up to the Landtrac, hard time getting parts, and overall customer dissatisfaction because of all of the problems." - Those are his words not mine. He said Kioti kept pushing him to get more in to sell, but he wouldn't unless someone was committed to buy it. I wouldn't do that as I hadn't even seen one let alone sit on/drive. I didn't look at the Long/Landtracs because they didn't have HST. I didn't even bother to go the other dealer as it was 45 miles in a direction that I don't typically drive and if one dealer is saying that be it right or wrong it left me with doubts.

On another note, I did the loader experiment last night. Didn't get pictures, but I used a tape measure. Put a 4x8x16 concrete block on its 4" side at the edge of the loader. The bottom of the loader was 8" (obviously) off the ground. The other side was 4 1/2" with the box blade on the ground and 5 1/4" with the blade lifted. Switched the block to the other side and the numbers were 8" and 5 1/4" and 5 3/4" respectively. Not sure if the difference came from tire pressures and/or slope of the concrete floor drain.  BTW, this is on my NH TC 24 w/ a 54" bucket.


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## Melensdad

IslandTractor is a good guy over at TBN, he and I have traded many PMs and he just posted a pretty darn sad post about the loader situation.  He has one of the KL120 loaders that is cracked.  The thread was started by a guy with a KL130 that was cracked, but attracted both 120 and 130 owners.  I feel sorry for these guys, but the lucky ones are on TBN because they know about the problem.  The unlucky owners will find out in a year or two when their loaders have large visible cracks and their warrenties are expired.

Here is what Ed wrote:



* Re: My letter to Kioti, loader rerepair, long  *   [Re: Steverino]      
       #900809 - 06/05/06 05:44 PM           
	

	
	
		
		

		
			
		
		
	


	




 Edit      


 Reply 


 Quote 
 I reported my loader cracks to my dealer last week and provided photos today. He quickly called Kioti to ask about a service bulletin. Believe it or not he was told that (paraphrased) "there have been a few of these cracks reported but not enough to issue a service bulletin". 

Way to go Kioti.  Let's change the brand mascot to an ostrich.

The dealer is very helpful and plans to stay in touch with Kioti but my concern now is that months after this problem was originally reported there is still no sanctioned repair or reengineering to prevent the cracks from reoccuring. I'm going to hold off bringing the FEL in for a while (there is an element of eternal optomist in me) hoping that Kioti finally gets it s*** together but at this point it is not looking good.

So, we were a pack of Kiotis, what is the collective noun for ostriches??​


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## Melensdad

Well the Kioti thread is really heating up regarding the loader.  Diehard (blowhard) John is now attacking the people who have broken loaders.  Dealers are saying different things to customers (Wallace reported something different than other dealers have privately told customers).  

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...89502/page/0/view/sb/sb/5/fpart/21/vc/1/o/all

Why doesn't Kioti just issue a letter that says there is a problem, they are working on a solution, and when the fix is developed they will send it out to dealers so the loaders can be fixed?  

Admit the problem.
State it is being worked on.
State it will take time.
State it will be fixed.

Seems like a fairly simple thing to do.  Instead of that, Kioti seems to be dragging their feet.


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## DaveNay

B_Skurka said:
			
		

> Well the Kioti thread is really heating up regarding the loader.



I went and read all the comments since my last visit there (75 or so) and all I could hear in my head as I was reading them was the voice of the school teacher from Peanuts cartoons. "WHA WHA WHA WHA WHA WHA"


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## JayC

That thread sure is heating up. I didn't read all the new posts, but I bet John must be sweating bullets. His beloved Kioti brand is having some real problems and he can't stand it. Truth be told, I have actually collapsed the Kioti forums so that I don't see them anymore. I don't care to read those forums. Everytime I do, it just takes the whole mood out of it. Since I stopped viewing the Kioti forums, things have actually been a little more pleasurable. Plus, I can't stand KiotiJohn. I never could.


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## Melensdad

The whole thing seems like a public relations nightmare that Kioti mishandled from the beginning.  

That thread is only one thread on the same topic, but there are actually a total of 4 or 5 threads talking about the KL120 and LK130 cracks.

Honestly, if Kioti corporate would have issued some sort of letter (not a full blown recall) they could have stopped this thread before it ever got started.


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## Dargo

I just got back in and saw a lot of attacking from ole KJ in that thread.  He is hard at work doing damage control on a thread called CK25 as well.  I think he is about to get in a real pissing match with ole highbeam.  It appears that, as much of an idiot he has been on some issues in the past aside, that ole highbeam has a legit issue and is pissed.  KJ has to keep up the patrol there and make sure that absolutely nobody, owners included, can say a single word that can possibly be taken as a negative towards the Kioti brand.

It's actually funny to see KJ attacking other owners and calling on his faithful mindless followers to follow suit with him.


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## thcri RIP

I have seen some long threads in my life, but I have a sneaky suspicion that the Kioti Loader thread is going to up there as one of the longest ones.


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## Melensdad

The lastest news is that KiotiJohn is now attacking Highbeams dealer.  He said that the dealer should lend Highbeam a tractor and that his dealer would have lent one to him.

Isn't KJ the guy who essentially lives at his dealership?  I know I've seen where he has helped unload new tractors that were being delivered, he's also claimed to help write some manuals.  Most people pay for their tractor and don't actually kiss the dealer on the lips every morning.  

And not to sound too objective, but I don't see where Highbeam's dealer has been a real problem.  He has been cooperative with Highbeam and while the loader repair was botched, the dealer didn't do that, it was sent out to a master welder who did it, and that was under the direction of Kioti.  So how is it that the dealer should lend him a tractor?  Unless Kioti underwrites the cost of the loaner, the dealer would get screwed because he'd have a "loaner/demo" tractor to see instead of a "new" tractor.

I think KJ needs to go to the medicine cabinet and take a pill that says "get real" on the label.


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## DaveNay

thcri said:
			
		

> I have seen some long threads in my life, but I have a sneaky suspicion that the Kioti Loader thread is going to up there as one of the longest ones.



Or it will cease to exist at all.


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## Mith

> the loader repair was botched



I dont reckon the repair iteslf was botched, the instuctions given were bad. The repair itself was good and strong, and the welds were nice, especially considering most of them were tricky ones, probably inverted too.
The dealer probably told the guy to 'fix it up to make it stronger' and probably wanted it done cheap. And then the dealer was under instruction from the manufacturer, so guess who done a bad job.....

I would say with all tractors, you get exactly what you pay for, nothing more.


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## LarryRB

can't remember the number, however, one thread about WroughtnHarv that did that big pond project had something like 18,000 views on it... Pretty hard to beat that.... Even if you add up the five or so various threads about loader cracks, I doubt it will come anywhere close,,, I don't know how to do it, but, go in as a new member on an assumed name and state, was going to buy a Kioti, but all this loader stuff scared me over to a comparable machine (Mahindra-Long-Montana or take a pick) This,,, should get KJ to post at least another 40 or so posts tonight


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## Mith

Post that you were planning on a Kioti but went with a Jinma instead due to better dealer backup!  He'll sweat!


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## JayC

Mith said:
			
		

> Post that you were planning on a Kioti but went with a Jinma instead due to better dealer backup!  He'll sweat!



hahaha That would be funny.


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## Junkman

DaveNay said:
			
		

> Most likely this is correct, however it is also possible this is their Edsal *or Veranzano Narrows bridge*.



Whats wrong with the Verrazano Narrows Bridge ??????


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## DaveNay

Junkman said:
			
		

> Whats wrong with the Verrazano Narrows Bridge ??????


Eh....I meant the Tacoma Narrows bridge.


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## Junkman

DaveNay said:
			
		

> Eh....I meant the Tacoma Narrows bridge.



duh........ das is 3000 miles away!!!!! Oh...... you mean "Galloping Gertie"


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## Dargo

The attacks from the rabid Kioti pack continue on HB.  What is the count now of how many of them have told him he should change brands?  It appears that he broke their number one rule and now he is being evicted from "the pack".


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## Melensdad

I think that Highbeam and Island Tractor have effectively layed out a dual attack on the whole problem.  

Highbeam has pretty much stayed on his loader problem.  Island Tractor has pretty much stayed on the larger global problem and did a good job of laying out the mistakes that Kioti has made.

Guys like gsssmi have jumped in at critical moments with a 2x4 smacked upside the head of Kioti.  And a smattering of other folks with loader problems have jumped into the discussion who have in one way or another reinforced the problem and the solution.

I think it will be hard for Kioti to avoid making a proper resolution but I have had some conversations with a guy who has a broken loader and the fear is that Kioti is going to only fix the loaders that are 'known' to be broken.  The reason that feeling is present is because Kioti seems to be dragging their feet on issuing any sort of official statement.  The lack of that statement  is cause for concern about the real intentions of Kioti.


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## Melensdad

Here is the official Kioti reply (via FAX to dealers):

_We have recieved reports of cosmetic cracks developing on the torque tube (cross member between the arms of the boom) of some KL120 & KL130 loaders. While we have had no reports of failures resulting from these cracks, our engineers are working to design a suitable solution for this issue. One the information is ready to be released, KIOTI will notify you (the dealers) with further information regarding this issue._
​While several responses were favorable, I wonder if some follow-up comments of skepticism don't show that maybe Kioti waited too long and perhaps that some damage to their reputation will take a long time to repair.  It is noteable that if you carefully read the announcement, there is no plain and clear wording to indicate that all the cracked loaders will receive the fix (including those that are out of warrenty).  

BTW, I am presuming that the spelling error in the Kioti text is the fault of the dealer who transcribed the FAX into email.


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## Melensdad

*NIXON* has now been _bitch slapped_ by one of the overly sensitive Kioti guys.  All Nixon did was suggest to a Kioti owner of a DK55 that he contact KiotiJohn.  He wrote what seemed to have been a clear sentence, he wrote it in English, but still it was misunderstood by a guy who simply was looking to pick apart Nixon as a brand-basher.  I've never seen Nixon bash another brand, heck I don't even know what he owns or if he owns a CUT.

John, FWIW, I did step up and defend your honor and I believe I did it without bashing any brands.  It does, however, open up the wound of the DK55 - KL1595 loader issue.  The way that loader was 'fixed' may be indicitive of how the CK20 and CK30 loaders will be fixed?

The guy with the DK55 - KL1595 suggests that Kioti will not do the right thing, but will probably charge people for the fix if their loader is out of warrenty.


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## DaveNay

B_Skurka said:
			
		

> *NIXON* has now been _bitch slapped_...



Bob, you misspelled _moron slapped._


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## Melensdad

DaveNay said:
			
		

> Bob, you misspelled _moron slapped._



Well I figured that "bitch" would make it past the moderators, but I didn't realize that "moron" would pass the test


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## Big Dog

B_Skurka said:
			
		

> Here is the official Kioti reply (via FAX to dealers):
> _We have recieved reports of cosmetic cracks developing on the torque tube (cross member between the arms of the boom) of some KL120 & KL130 loaders. While we have had no reports of failures resulting from these cracks, our engineers are working to design a suitable solution for this issue. One the information is ready to be released, KIOTI will notify you (the dealers) with further information regarding this issue._
> ​While several responses were favorable, I wonder if some follow-up comments of skepticism don't show that maybe Kioti waited too long and perhaps that some damage to their reputation will take a long time to repair. It is noteable that if you carefully read the announcement, there is no plain and clear wording to indicate that all the cracked loaders will receive the fix (including those that are out of warrenty).
> 
> BTW, I am presuming that the spelling error in the Kioti text is the fault of the dealer who transcribed the FAX into email.



I'd like to think that the e-mail I sent to Kioti on the subject helped make a difference.

Posted on TBN 2 days prior to the anouncement!


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## Melensdad

Greg, I think a lot of credit goes to folks like you, IslandTractor (Ed), Highbeam (Joe) and a select small group of other Kioti owners who kept Kioti from ducking, and who kept KiotiJohn from diverting and obfuscating the issue.  The occasional poke in the right direction when the thread would slightly sway off course, may have been the critical posts that did the most to keep the issue up front, on target, and impossible for Kioti to avoid.

As long as KiotiJohn was attacking people (like me, or like Joe) then Kioti had the diversion away from the topic.  There were a couple dealers who I think also confused the issue by speaking for Kioti, but not having the official word to do that.  IslandTractor did the best job of flushing out those statements as unofficial.

Overall I think that Kioti took the right steps, too bad they took them late.  

And they are still under the spector of suspiscion from some Kioti owners, especially those who had to pay for the repairs on their DK55 - KL1595 loaders.  But at least they took a positive step forward.


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## Big Dog

d





			
				B_Skurka said:
			
		

> Greg, I think a lot of credit goes to folks like you, IslandTractor (Ed), Highbeam (Joe) and a select small group of other Kioti owners who kept Kioti from ducking, and who kept KiotiJohn from diverting and obfuscating the issue. The occasional poke in the right direction when the thread would slightly sway off course, may have been the critical posts that did the most to keep the issue up front, on target, and impossible for Kioti to avoid.


I hear that! Too many times focus was diverted. My post were few but staying the course and issue was my concern. As you know, the course changed from the loader to Kioti's response. It's time they take care of their business!!!


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## Melensdad

Well the Kioti thread seems to have heated up some.  Batche33 really stuck her foot up her ass with some of her statements.  And her latest reply is simply insulting to people.

If she is considered a 'good' Kioti dealer/spokesperson then I think that brand is in trouble!


_EDIT:  I just got a PM from Highbeam.  He's pissed at Batche33 and doesn't understand why she would have made a post like she did.  He said that he posted after her in an effort to calm the situation a bit, but that he was not happy with her._


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## JayC

I'll have to check that out. I haven't actually read anything on TBN in a while. Kioti seems to be in a deep hole. Calling those cracks "cosmetic" bothered me.  I wonder what they will say if the loader breaks and someone sues? I've pretty much given up on Kioti. Those rabid fans have really hurt that brand. KiotiJohn seems to have left as I haven't seen him post in a while. While that is a minor plus for the brand at TBN, I think its reputation is tarnished quite a bit now. If I were buying a Kioti today, I would be worried about the loaders. I don't like putting aftermarket attachments like loader and backhoes on a machine, but in Kioti's case, it is probably your only safe, reliable answer.


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