# Martial Law Imminent?



## sunlover

or are we already under martial law like some suggest...

http://www.youtube.com/embed/3CUn48d-oO4


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## muleman RIP

I do fear it is coming before the next election. The recent protests were a cover to allow them to test out scenarios and practice shutting down communications.


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## sunlover

muleman said:


> I do fear it is coming before the next election. The recent protests were a cover to allow them to test out scenarios and practice shutting down communications.


 
Unfortunately, too many have ignored what has been going on in this country for a very long time and have been ok with the bans put on too many of us...and this is the end result of being passive i'm afraid.


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## joec

She lost me in the first few seconds. At any rate if it happens what does anyone do short term to stop it? Not much as it takes time to mount a revolution which it would take to end it.


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## sunlover

http://www.youtube.com/embed/K-CpCUOygqU


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## sunlover

joec said:


> She lost me in the first few seconds. At any rate if it happens what does anyone do short term to stop it? Not much as it takes time to mount a revolution which it would take to end it.


 
Despite how many seem to feel, a revolution has already started...with the occupy movement. That's why i said much earlier in another post, that any action regarding what is going on with this government is better then no action.


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## sunlover

joec said:


> She lost me in the first few seconds. At any rate if it happens what does anyone do short term to stop it? Not much as it takes time to mount a revolution which it would take to end it.


 
I hope you stuck around for more then just a few seconds joe, there was a lot more to it...


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## sunlover

muleman said:


> I do fear it is coming before the next election. The recent protests were a cover to allow them to test out scenarios and practice shutting down communications.


 
I'm afraid you may be right...


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## joec

sunlover said:


> I hope you stuck around for more then just a few seconds joe, there was a lot more to it...


 
Oh I watched all but pretty much wrote it off quickly. As for a revolution perhaps, perhaps not but if it comes the average armed American better be ready to kill his fellow American to gain their weapons as it will take a lot more than side arms and hunting rifles to stop the US military with all their might. They don't use flintlocks as they did at the time the 2nd Amendment was written.


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## sunlover

joec said:


> Oh I watched all but pretty much wrote it off quickly. As for a revolution perhaps, perhaps not but if it comes the average armed American better be ready to kill his fellow American to gain their weapons as it will take a lot more than side arms and hunting rifles to stop the US military with all their might. They don't use flintlocks as they did at the time the 2nd Amendment was written.


 

Being aware and ready...very important things to take note of. I found it interesting in researching this that they say that 90% of the military would be ready to fire on the citizens of this country in order to save their jobs...because of this economy.


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## Cowboy

joec said:


> Oh I watched all but pretty much wrote it off quickly. As for a revolution perhaps, perhaps not but if it comes the average armed American better be ready to kill his fellow American to gain their weapons as it will take a lot more than side arms and hunting rifles to stop the US military with all their might. They don't use flintlocks as they did at the time the 2nd Amendment was written.


 Sorry Joe , but IMO if it comes to a revolution most of the military will be on our side too. This aint Iraq or the other countrys that are going to put up with this bullshit, our military is what has fought for our freedom , past, present and future. 

  I'll bet my life they will be behind whats right as they have all bet theirs.


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## joec

Cowboy said:


> Sorry Joe , but IMO if it comes to a revolution most of the military will be on our side too. This aint Iraq or the other countrys that are going to put up with this bullshit, our military is what has fought for our freedom , past, present and future.
> 
> I'll bet my life they will be behind whats right as they have all bet theirs.


 
I wouldn't bet my life on that CB but you if it happens can tell me I'm wrong that is if we survive the first strike.

It has happened in the past where American (police/military) have fired on unarmed civilians. Perhaps Kent State comes to mind, Waco etc. If they are convinced they are in the right they would mow you and me down just as soon look at us.


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## Danang Sailor

Cowboy said:


> Sorry Joe , but IMO if it comes to a revolution most of the military will be on our side too. This aint Iraq or the other countrys that are going to put up with this bullshit, our military is what has fought for our freedom , past, present and future.
> 
> I'll bet my life they will be behind whats right as they have all bet theirs.



It would definitely be dicey, but my comrades still active have been discussing this sort of thing for a while now, and are
beginning to come to a consensus about what actions might be necessary to honor their vow to protect the Constitution
from "enemies, foreign* and *domestic".  This might not include throwing in with revolutionaries, but it could well mean
not firing on citizens who were trying to save the country from usurpers.

If martial law and armed revolt come it will not be pleasant, but it is undoubtedly preferable to the alternative:
abject enslavement under laws that are contrary to every precept of our Constitution.


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## Cowboy

joec said:


> I wouldn't bet my life on that CB but you if it happens can tell me I'm wrong that is if we survive the first strike.
> 
> It has happened in the past where American (police/military) have fired on unarmed civilians. Perhaps Kent State comes to mind, Waco etc. If they are convinced they are in the right they would mow you and me down just as soon look at us.


 A lot of shit has happened since Kent state and Waco Joe , Lets also remember who were involved, and how they were prepared in both of those examples. 

 Its a whole different world these days, and trust me its not just a bunch of paranoid rednecks that will be protecting whats theirs. I have faith in our military to do whats right when it comes down to the nut cutting, and taking the trash out , I sure as hell hope others do as well.  

 I hope to hell some dumbass makes a decision to drop some bunker busting bomb right on top of my butt , the men and women that have been protecting our freedom aint gonna take kindly to that on our own soil, and they wont give a fuck WHAT the media reports. 

  Just my opinion, and my personal faith in the ones that I consider our protectors.


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## joec

Cowboy said:


> A lot of shit has happened since Kent state and Waco Joe , Lets also remember who were involved, and how they were prepared in both of those examples.
> 
> Its a whole different world these days, and trust me its not just a bunch of paranoid rednecks that will be protecting whats theirs. I have faith in our military to do whats right when it comes down to the nut cutting, and taking the trash out , I sure as hell hope others do as well.
> 
> I hope to hell some dumbass makes a decision to drop some bunker busting bomb right on top of my butt , the men and women that have been protecting our freedom aint gonna take kindly to that on our own soil, and they wont give a fuck WHAT the media reports.
> 
> Just my opinion, and my personal faith in the ones that I consider our protectors.


 
I agree with you really just a fact under the right situation it could happen. Oh and do I think it is very unlikely. As I said in my first post I wrote off this souce pretty quick though I did listen to it. In fact I don't see this happening at all in this country at least not any time soon.


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## sunlover

joec said:


> In fact I don't see this happening at all in this country at least not any time soon.


 
I hope you're right...


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## Kane

If you ask me, I hope they* are* ready to impose martial law ...  like on mid-night November 6th, 2012 right after Barack Obama is defeated.

There will be riots in the streets all across America.  Looting and burning like we've not seen in decades.


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## fogtender

I've been saying all this for some time... This OWS crap is the last stage of this, you have these clowns that don't want to work and expect the rest of us to give them our labor to make them "Equal".  Obama clearly started this with his class warfare speaches, and then support for these people. They are ramping up their protests, getting more violent as time goes on.  The people that started OWS were Anrchist (not Anti-Christ), now just people that are true class morons are showing up now because they are clueless and the interviews prove my point!

They want a "Four Dead in Ohio" moment and the police haven't played along with violence....  They did however spray a bunch of the A$$holes with pepper spray.   Now the press is trying to make that a defining moment and the public isn't buying it.  The other people there had videos of the police being circled unlike the first video showed. 

This is in the same vein of what Hitler, Stalin, Mao and other dictators did to take control.  Create a disaster to justify a Marshal Law type event to "Save the People" from an event of their own creation.  Even Fast and Furious was designed to take guns from the public but it backfired.

The US military isn't going to back Obama, but with the now massive cuts because the "Super Committee" failed (was expected to fail) and they will automaticly start gutting the Military with massive cuts, when it comes time to "save" the Country, it will require troops to help from foreign countries to "Assist", which have no loyalty to the US Constitution.

Really hope I'm wrong, but each step so far is almost from the same blueprint of past Dictators.


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## fogtender

joec said:


> I agree with you really just a fact under the right situation it could happen. Oh and do I think it is very unlikely. As I said in my first post I wrote off this souce pretty quick though I did listen to it. In fact I don't see this happening at all in this country at least not any time soon.




Well I'm sure your viewpoint in 1932 would have been Hitler was a great guy, in fact he was downright popular in the early years!  Then it was the Jews were bad (insert Wall Street), then he slowly spun his web which resulted in some 50,000,000 deaths before it was righted...

If these protesters really were serious about legitimate reform on Wall Street, they should be in Washinton occupying there...


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## joec

fogtender said:


> Well I'm sure your viewpoint in 1932 would have been Hitler was a great guy, in fact he was downright popular in the early years! Then it was the Jews were bad (insert Wall Street), then he slowly spun his web which resulted in some 50,000,000 deaths before it was righted...
> 
> If these protesters really were serious about legitimate reform on Wall Street, they should be in Washinton occupying there...


 
You know foggy you sometime live up to that handle. 

I was pointing out only one thing here so please learn to read. That if you think the president (any president and party) declared martial law that the military wouldn't follow orders. They already have a record on this in recent history. I'm sure you remember Katrina they confiscated legally own guns, shot down unarmed people on a bridge. Now that was on a small scale by police which is now a military force too.


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## jimbo

joec said:


> Oh I watched all but pretty much wrote it off quickly. As for a revolution perhaps, perhaps not but if it comes the average armed American better be ready to kill his fellow American to gain their weapons as it will take a lot more than side arms and hunting rifles to stop the US military with all their might. They don't use flintlocks as they did at the time the 2nd Amendment was written.


The question with the military is which side will they be on?


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## joec

jimbo said:


> The question with the military is which side will they be on?


 
That is the question and my guess based on what I've seen before it wouldn't be for the civilian population. I would love to think different but based on small scale situations today, I tend to doubt I'm wrong. First would be local/state police and you can see how they react. Once they loose control then would come the National Guard and they have a record too such as Kent State. I'm sorry folks I don't trust either the police or military to do the right thing when they get their 30 seconds of real power of life and death. Sometime perfectly sane people do some very insane things in these situations.


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## fogtender

joec said:


> You know foggy you sometime live up to that handle.
> 
> I was pointing out only one thing here so please learn to read. That if you think the president (any president and party) declared martial law that the military wouldn't follow orders. They already have a record on this in recent history. I'm sure you remember Katrina they confiscated legally own guns, shot down unarmed people on a bridge. Now that was on a small scale by police which is now a military force too.



"Just following Orders" is what the German high command tried to claim after the war was over.  They were hanged after the trial, you are not under any obligation to follow illegals orders, if you do, you are liable for prosecution as well.

It was the local police that were taking legal guns, not the military, it was the local police that shot people on the bridge, not the military.  The military was saving people that the idiotic Mayor and Governor told to stay put instead of evacuate, Democrats I might add!  Instead they blamed FEMA which was never designed to be a first response, it was to back up local emergency responses. 

By the way... As for the "handle" Fogtender, I got it in the Coast Guard, while on a light house keeping people off the rocks, none of your fantasy drug stuff.

Your views of the military verses local police is pretty skewed.

The Military won't support Obama's call for Marshal Law and he is well aware of that, which is why he wants a second force just like Hitler had the Brown Shirts, later to become the SS.  History does seem to elude you.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJbrHFUb1tw&feature=youtube_gdata_player"]Barack's Civilian National Security Forces?      - YouTube[/ame]


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQ3CHKm9ZuY&feature=youtube_gdata_player"]Barack Obama and Rahm Emanuel´s Plan for The Draft - MANDATORY SERVICE - for everyone 18-25      - YouTube[/ame]


I'm supprised you have this as a statement when it is clear you can't see history repeating itself in broad daylight!



> It is said that slavery is the natural order of man, and without knowledge of his past that is what man will default to.


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## joec

No it doesn't elude me and if you don't think the army would follow orders from their commanding officers then good luck. Either way I not only don't trust police departments (closer to the military today than the police I grew up with) and the military. Give a 18 to 20 year old a gun, give him an order that includes social unrest and what he/she might see as got to be a good order and they will follows. 

Now stop bringing the Nazi into this as it pertains to me, I find it personally offensive. I've seen it before and you can bet if it happened here it wouldn't be any different than anywhere else. 

Now as I said from the get go I don't think it will happen period so now why have you singled me out to attack for my opinion? But then I seem to be the only one here that doesn't tow your line of right wing is always right and left wing is always wrong so I guess I don't fit into your view of the world.. Perhaps you should join a group that thinks like you do exclusively so you can then belong, I don't need it myself.


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## fogtender

joec said:


> No it doesn't elude me and if you don't think the army would follow orders from their commanding officers then good luck. Either way I not only don't trust police departments (closer to the military today than the police I grew up with) and the military. Give a 18 to 20 year old a gun, give him an order that includes social unrest and what he/she might see as got to be a good order and they will follows.
> 
> Now stop bringing the Nazi into this as it pertains to me, I find it personally offensive. I've seen it before and you can bet if it happened here it wouldn't be any different than anywhere else.
> 
> Now as I said from the get go I don't think it will happen period so now why have you singled me out to attack for my opinion? But then I seem to be the only one here that doesn't tow your line of right wing is always right and left wing is always wrong so I guess I don't fit into your view of the world.. Perhaps you should join a group that thinks like you do exclusively so you can then belong, I don't need it myself.




Um, it was you whom implied I was "Foggy" and don't grasp what is happening, I see it very clearly, and have repeatedly post Obama's own plan in his own words, yet you can't grasp this man is no different than how Hitler came to power, he Promised "Change" as well..

I don't think Obama will be sucessful, but how many people will die stopping something like this happening?  Hitler, it took about 50,000,000.


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## loboloco

My thoughts here, for what they are worth:
The military, since the mid 80's have been having an internal debated on this.  The consensus is still in the air.  Mostly it would be situational and would probably split the military.  One of the things to watch for would be NG or reserve unit movements out of their base states. Simple fact, Ga boys are a lot more likely to light up Chicagoans than the local units would, and conversely, NYC units might not hesitate to cap a few texans.
I too, believe the police have become 'militarized', but the police would last only minutes against even a mid grade guard unit.   
Too many veterans out here that do know the weaknesses of the military and in such a situation, would be willing to exploit them.
Joec, a hunting rifle is actually more powerful and usually more accurate than the small arms carried by our soldiers.  Poison gas and explosives can be made from common materials and all the armor a tank has won't stand up to some of the explosives possible for the 'average' farmer to make.  
History has shown it only takes appr 10% of a population to actively rise to make an uprising initially successful. 
Joe, we should compare what is occurring now to 1932 Germany for a very simple reason.  Both Hitler and Obama have the same political philosophy.


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## Kane

fogtender said:


> I'm supprised you have this as a statement when it is clear you can't see history repeating itself in broad daylight!





> It is said that slavery is the natural order of man, and without knowledge of his past that is what man will default to.  --  Joe


Astute observation, *fogtender*.  Liberal irony at its best.


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## joec

fogtender said:


> Um, it was you whom implied I was "Foggy" and don't grasp what is happening, I see it very clearly, and have repeatedly post Obama's own plan in his own words, yet you can't grasp this man is no different than how Hitler came to power, he Promised "Change" as well..
> 
> I don't think Obama will be sucessful, but how many people will die stopping something like this happening? Hitler, it took about 50,000,000.


 
I for one also think he has failed however but he has also been correct and not completely wrong no more than previous presidents in our past. 

My whole point is both sides have been wrong as much correct. The problem is they have finally done it, divided the country down to rooting for your own political team be it democrats or republicans using single issues to divide it. It has now become a sport and nothing more. Hate now has replace logic so most buy into conjecture if it is on their side be it one or the other and common sense and logic be damned.

Now as to why I called you foggy as you evidently didn't read or if you did didn't understand what I wrote. If you had you might of understood what I posted and take it as that. Like Kane though you have your mind made up as to where I'm coming from and don't have a clue really.


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## mak2

Both Hitler and Obama have the same political philosophy.

Really?  How so?


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## Kane

The answer lies as easily as the difference between the Egyptian military and the Syrian military.

In Egypt, where the military had political control, the military laid down down arms and in fact joined the people.

In Syria, the government controls the politics of the military.  Thousands are being slaughtered. 

So in America, I would have to say YES the military, however reluctant, would fire upon the citizens.

As I see it.
.


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## loboloco

mak2 said:


> Both Hitler and Obama have the same political philosophy.
> 
> Really?  How so?


Read the philosophies they both advocate.  Basically, all Obama's political philosophy is, is National Socialism.  Many people are confused as to what National socialism really represented and seem to think it is a 'rightist' philosophy.  This is true only in comparison to the old Soviet Union or Communist China.  Actually, Hitler made Castro look like a far right nutcase.


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## fogtender

joec said:


> I for one also think he has failed however but he has also been correct and not completely wrong no more than previous presidents in our past.
> 
> My whole point is both sides have been wrong as much correct. The problem is they have finally done it, divided the country down to rooting for your own political team be it democrats or republicans using single issues to divide it. It has now become a sport and nothing more. Hate now has replace logic so most buy into conjecture if it is on their side be it one or the other and common sense and logic be damned.
> 
> Now as to why I called you foggy as you evidently didn't read or if you did didn't understand what I wrote. If you had you might of understood what I posted and take it as that. Like Kane though you have your mind made up as to where I'm coming from and don't have a clue really.




I don't hate anyone, but when Obama desires power and wants to bypass the Constitution, and that applies to any politician, and I don't care if they have an R or a D behind their name, if they try to or even succeed in passing a law that is deemed unconstitutional, then they should be removed from office for not upholding the oath they took to uphold the Constitution.

When Obama starts flying balloons of his own private defense force with the same power as the military, that puts him on the same level as Hitler.  There isn't room for Misinterpreting him on that.  He was very clear on his statement, so you are either with him or not.  Your choice!  You already said you don't trust police or the military, so that kinda paints you into a corner.  Now we have th OWS crowd, which he supports and basically inspired with his rich against the poor speaches. Maybe he plans on enlisting them?


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## Kane

Comparing Obama to Hiltler is really too simple.  We have to look at what Obama really is.

He is an anti-colonist that believes wholly in reparations and  collective salvation.  That said,  he would intend to take America down a path that leads to social equality  -  that is, instead of equal opportunity for all, equal outcomes for all.

This is the heart of Marxism, and if it takes his brownshirts to do it, he would do it.

But only if we let him.
.


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## joec

Then simply show me using facts not your preconceived notions where he exceeded his powers given by the constitution. Please, I would love to see where it happened.


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## mak2

loboloco said:


> Read the philosophies they both advocate.  Basically, all Obama's political philosophy is, is National Socialism.  Many people are confused as to what National socialism really represented and seem to think it is a 'rightist' philosophy.  This is true only in comparison to the old Soviet Union or Communist China.  Actually, Hitler made Castro look like a far right nutcase.



So Naziism and socialism are the same thing?  I have heard Obama refered to many times as a socialist or a communist probably a thousand times on this site alone. Hitler was not a socialist or communist.  

Obama is not a Hitler, he has broken no laws (that we know of) and he is not trying to overthrow the governement.  More scary stories around the campfire.


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## loboloco

mak2 said:


> So Naziism and socialism are the same thing?  I have heard Obama refered to many times as a socialist or a communist probably a thousand times on this site alone. Hitler was not a socialist or communist.
> 
> Obama is not a Hitler, he has broken no laws (that we know of) and he is not trying to overthrow the governement.  More scary stories around the campfire.


Sorry, but Hitler's philosophy was a form of socialism.  It was slightly less restrictive n ownership and income redistribution, but most of Hitler's philosophy is practiced today in socialist countries.  Universal healthcare, government control(not ownership) of businesses, wealth redistribution(except for certain people or causes), alternative fuels pursuit by the government, etc...
As I said, Mak.  Read the philosophies, not the current action.  Hitler did not overthrow the government either, he was duly elected and legally given the authority he used.


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## mak2

loboloco said:


> Sorry, but Hitler's philosophy was a form of socialism.  It was slightly less restrictive n ownership and income redistribution, but most of Hitler's philosophy is practiced today in socialist countries.  Universal healthcare, government control(not ownership) of businesses, wealth redistribution(except for certain people or causes), alternative fuels pursuit by the government, etc...
> As I said, Mak.  Read the philosophies, not the current action.  Hitler did not overthrow the government either, he was duly elected and legally given the authority he used.



I think you really need to read the political and economical philosophies and compare and contrast Hitler and Obama.  This is too basic and factual a point argue.  Also, I never said Hitler overthrew anything.  Where did that come from?


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## joec

*so·cial·ism*

   /ˈsoʊ
	

	
	
		
		

		
			
		
		
	


	




ʃəˌlɪz
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




əm/ 

 Show Spelled[*soh*-sh_uh_-liz-_uh
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_m] 

 Show IPA 
*noun *1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole. 

2. procedure or practice in accordance with this theory. 

3. (in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.


Or a more indepth version


1*:* any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods 

2*:* a system of society or group living in which there is no private property _b_*:* a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state 

3*:* a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done 


Hitler was a socialist dictator by the way.


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## Kane

joec said:


> *so·cial·ism*
> 
> 3. (in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.



BINGO>


> *Kane* said:  We have to look at what Obama really is.
> 
> He is an anti-colonist that believes wholly in reparations and   collective salvation.  That said,  he would intend to take America down a  path that leads to social equality  -  that is, instead of equal  opportunity for all, equal outcomes for all.
> 
> This is the heart of Marxism.


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## joec

Kane said:


> BINGO>


 
Please Kane show facts, you know the things you can prove about what Obama wants to do. Now I mean Obama not the Congress but him personally.


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## mak2

Loco said Obama and Hitler the same political philosophy.  They flat don't.  I dont believe Obama is even very socialist, but he is certainly not a nazi. Hitler political philosophy was based on racism, nationalism and a hatred of communist.  No where near what obama is accused of on this forum. So stating Obama and Hitler have the same philosophy is factually wrong.


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## Kane

joec said:


> Please Kane show facts, you know the things you can prove about what Obama wants to do. Now I mean Obama not the Congress but him personally.



Oh come now, *joec*.  Do we need to go thru Obama's life story again? It's been done too many times, and you've ignored it every time.


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## loboloco

Obama is not a Hitler, he has broken no laws (that we know of) and he is  not trying to overthrow the governement.  More scary stories around the  campfire.

 think you really need to read the political and economical philosophies  and compare and contrast Hitler and Obama.  This is too basic and  factual a point argue.  Also, I never said Hitler overthrew anything.   Where did that come from? 		

Mak, maybe you should actually read MeinKampf.  Maybe you should actually pay attention to what Hitler did in Germany rather than trying to deny the connections that do exist.
The only basic difference between National socialism and Marxist socialism was in "ownership" of businesses.  Both exercised, at least in theory, absolute control of production.  But, National Socialism did not exercise direct ownership.
You did not 'state' that Hitler overthrew the government, but you did, in the above statement, imply it.


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## Kane

Well,* loboloco*, you have your denier, I have mine.  Alas.


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## mak2

loboloco said:


> Obama is not a Hitler, he has broken no laws (that we know of) and he is  not trying to overthrow the governement.  More scary stories around the  campfire.
> 
> think you really need to read the political and economical philosophies  and compare and contrast Hitler and Obama.  This is too basic and  factual a point argue.  Also, I never said Hitler overthrew anything.   Where did that come from?
> 
> Mak, maybe you should actually read MeinKampf.  Maybe you should actually pay attention to what Hitler did in Germany rather than trying to deny the connections that do exist.
> The only basic difference between National socialism and Marxist socialism was in "ownership" of businesses.  Both exercised, at least in theory, absolute control of production.  But, National Socialism did not exercise direct ownership.
> You did not 'state' that Hitler overthrew the government, but you did, in the above statement, imply it.



Oh, I was addressing the OP about martial law.  Who owns buisness is a pretty big deal.


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## joec

Kane said:


> Oh come now, *joec*. Do we need to go thru Obama's life story again? It's been done too many times, and you've ignored it every time.


 
So I take that as an I don't know except your perceptions. Besides what does all this have to do with the OP or for that matter what I have posted in this tread?


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## loboloco

mak2 said:


> Oh, I was addressing the OP about martial law.  Who owns buisness is a pretty big deal.


Really?  If you own a business, but are only allowed to produce what the government allows, who is in charge?  If you are required to 'distribute' your earnings, who owns the business?  Anytime the government steps in and dictates to the business what, how much and when it produces a product, you are in a socialist state.


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## Cowboy

All I know is its Thanksgiving , and you had better give thanks for what you have today, because you may not have it for much longer. 

  The majority of the "people" in the US know this from all sides, with the way the country is headed and it gets worse everyday. Theres probably plenty of proof of what is being said in this thread, but so much of it is being done in secret and through back door deals it only takes common sense to figure it out IMO . 

 That said, I hope you are all having a happy thanksgiving with your loved ones, it very well could be your last one.


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## loboloco

Kane said:


> Well,* loboloco*, you have your denier, I have mine.  Alas.


Nah, Mak just likes to argue to see the responses.


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## Kane

joec said:


> So I take that as an I don't know except your perceptions. Besides what does all this have to do with the OP or for that matter what I have posted in this tread?



I've stated my position on martial law (see post #30) but it is you and *mak2* that can't accept the connection between Obama and Marxism.

But really.  Do we need to talk about the ant-colonist dreams "From My Father" again.  Or twenty years of Black Liberation Theology and collective salvation?  Again?

Do we need to show you AGAIN the reparations and wealth redistribution written into every piece of Obama legislation by Cass Sunstien and the Apollo Group?  You didn't think Obama or Congress wrote that shit, did you?

Not gonna' do it again,* joec*.  Because you are as blind as a sheeple, as you choose to ignore the evident.


----------



## mak2

Well, it is a debate and discussion forum.  There are only 2 of us left so I gotta say something evry once in a while.  Again though, Obama is not Hitler.  I have told you why I beleive that, you want talk about varations of socialism or level of totalitarianism, that is fine.  But obama is not hitler, there are really no FEMA camps.  Really.  





loboloco said:


> Nah, Mak just likes to argue to see the responses.


----------



## loboloco

mak2 said:


> Well, it is a debate and discussion forum.  There are only 2 of us left so I gotta say something evry once in a while.  Again though, Obama is not Hitler.  I have told you why I beleive that, you want talk about varations of socialism or level of totalitarianism, that is fine.  But obama is not hitler, there are really no FEMA camps.  Really.


In his actions, no, not yet.  In his political philosophy, pretty much.


----------



## loboloco

By the way Mak, and Joe, I think a lot of both of you.  You both state what you believe.  I hope you and everyone else here, have had a Happy Thanksgiving.


----------



## mak2

You too lobo.

Hey, wait, what do you mean by a lot?  


loboloco said:


> By the way Mak, and Joe, I think a lot of both of you.  You both state what you believe.  I hope you and everyone else here, have had a Happy Thanksgiving.


----------



## fogtender

mak2 said:


> Obama is not a Hitler, he has broken no laws (that we know of) and he is not trying to overthrow the governement.  More scary stories around the campfire.




Well the jury is out on it right now, but "Fast and Furious", may in fact be a pretty big one.  His office seems to have supported it and is now trying to blame Bush...  Problem is that Bush's program involved the Mexican Government, where Obama's operation is pushing guns over the boarder to blame Americans to push gun control and it's falling apart as we talk about it.  Nixon only stole documents, nobody got killed, unlike F&F has.  Clinton played with cigars...


----------



## joec

Kane said:


> I've stated my position on martial law (see post #30) but it is you and *mak2* that can't accept the connection between Obama and Marxism.
> 
> But really. Do we need to talk about the ant-colonist dreams "From My Father" again. Or twenty years of Black Liberation Theology and collective salvation? Again?
> 
> Do we need to show you AGAIN the reparations and wealth redistribution written into every piece of Obama legislation by Cass Sunstien and the Apollo Group? You didn't think Obama wrote that shit, did you?
> 
> Not gonna' do it again,* joec*. Because you are as blind as a sheeple, as you choose to ignore the evident.


 
Now perhaps you can read this slowly for a change. I don't agree with much of what Obama does and a have clearly stated so. However I also don't agree with the attitude he is the anti christ or some other such thing. He is not much different than Bush really since he kept most of his people and pretty much followed his lead. I didn't vote for him nor will I next time. 

My problem is the sheeple as you put it really seems to be mostly on the right. I'm of the belief that the fact we have been divided as a country into these camps, will be our down fall at the hands of the very elected officials the real sheeple elect. The last 3 president have won elections because people would like to have a beer with them but didn't hear but not a word about what they believed in other than catch phrases. As a country we no vote based on 30 second sound bites and little else or some talking head telling us what we want to hear because we agree right or wrong.

Now if you want to make it a personal attack on me which I've have tried very hard not to do then have at it. You know nothing about me at all nor will you ever. You don't seem to have an understanding of simply common courtesy based on the tone of most of your posts aimed at me even if I am agreeing with your point of view. So if you will please either stop addressing me and put me on ignore or at least act like an adult.


----------



## joec

loboloco said:


> By the way Mak, and Joe, I think a lot of both of you. You both state what you believe. I hope you and everyone else here, have had a Happy Thanksgiving.


 
Back at you loboloco.  And my Dolphins managed to lose to Dallas just a moment ago also.


----------



## loboloco

joec said:


> Back at you loboloco.  And my Dolphins managed to lose to Dallas just a moment ago also.


Umm, you do realize that watching football is similar to mental masturbation?


----------



## Kane

joec said:


> Now perhaps you can read this slowly for a change. I don't agree with much of what Obama does and a have clearly stated so. However I also don't agree with the attitude he is the anti christ or some other such thing. He is not much different than Bush really since he kept most of his people and pretty much followed his lead. I didn't vote for him nor will I next time.
> 
> My problem is the sheeple as you put it really seems to be mostly on the right. I'm of the belief that the fact we have been divided as a country into these camps, will be our down fall at the hands of the very elected officials the real sheeple elect. The last 3 president have won elections because people would like to have a beer with them but didn't hear but not a word about what they believed in other than catch phrases. As a country we no vote based on 30 second sound bites and little else or some talking head telling us what we want to hear because we agree right or wrong.
> 
> Now if you want to make it a personal attack on me which I've have tried very hard not to do then have at it. You know nothing about me at all nor will you ever. You don't seem to have an understanding of simply common courtesy based on the tone of most of your posts aimed at me even if I am agreeing with your point of view. So if you will please either stop addressing me and put me on ignore or at least act like an adult.



No, *joec*.  You ignore every bit of dirt I put in front of you.  So then give me _your _take on the influence of Obama's father.  Give me _your _take on 20 years of collective salvation.  Give me_ your _take on the Apollo Group.  Give me _your_ take on Cass Sunstein.  This _is_ Obama.

Don't just ignore it AGAIN and then claim your feelings are hurt.


----------



## joec

Kane said:


> No, *joec*. You ignore every bit of dirt I put in front of you. So then give me _your _take on the influence of Obama's father. Give me _your _take on 20 years of collective salvation. Give me_ your _take on the Apollo Group. Give me _your_ take on Cass Sunstein.
> 
> Don't just ignore it AGAIN and then claim your feelings are hurt.


 
None of that crap means much really, especially in regards to the OP we are discussing at the moment nor the comments I posted here in that regard. Oh and your opinion at this point isn't important enough to me to begin to hurt my feelings. Now I will simply end this discussion with you.


----------



## Kane

joec said:


> None of that crap means much really, especially in regards to the OP we are discussing at the moment nor the comments I posted here in that regard. Oh and your opinion at this point isn't important enough to me to begin to hurt my feelings. Now I will simply end this discussion with you.



There you go again.  Ignore the issue.  And it has much to do with Obama's predilection towards control. 

The following is not a matter of my opinion.  I am asking for you to give us yours:

So then give me _your _take on *the influence of Obama's father*.  Give me _your _take on *20 years of collective salvation*.  Give me_ your _take on the *Apollo Group*.  Give me _your_ take on *Cass Sunstein*.  Because* This is Obama.

*But you won't.*

.
*


----------



## OhioTC18 RIP

Did anybody realize that video was over 2 years old and was about being forced to take a swine flu shot? The "RFID" tag as she called it was an IR transmitter that can be seen by night vision goggles.


----------



## joec

OhioTC18 said:


> Did anybody realize that video was over 2 years old and was about being forced to take a swine flu shot? The "RFID" tag as she called it was an IR transmitter that can be seen by night vision goggles.


 
I did Ohio hence I wrote it off in the first few minutes of it. That and the fact she had to pray 3 days before deciding to go public, like she doesn't have free will to do the right thing, hence my opinion of what the military would probably do as well as the police. I did listen to it and pretty much stated my piece to move on.


----------



## fogtender

How about these to help put it in the proper light..,

Obama wants a powerful civilian defense force.

Obama wants to control big business.

Obama want to control national health care.

Obama wants gun control. (F&F)

Obama wants to Divide the country, Rich against the poor.

Obama supports OWS, and as their level of crime increases he still supports them.

Obama is breaking the country by overspending

The list goes on...

Now can tell me what good he has done?


----------



## pirate_girl

fogtender said:


> Now can tell me what good he has done?



*NOTHING!!*


----------



## joec

fogtender said:


> How about these to help put it in the proper light..,
> 
> Obama wants a powerful civilian defense force.
> 
> Obama wants to control big business.
> 
> Obama want to control national health care.
> 
> Obama wants gun control. (F&F)
> 
> Obama wants to Divide the country, Rich against the poor.
> 
> Obama supports OWS, and as their level of crime increases he still supports them.
> 
> Obama is breaking the country by overspending
> 
> The list goes on...
> 
> Now can tell me what good he has done?


 
Sure I can, he has taken on pirates off the coast of Africa which none have done since Jefferson. He has taken out more terrorist in 3 years than the previous administration did in 7. I might add using the previous adminstrations yard stick we haven't been hit by terrorists on his watch while they couldn't say that in spite of actaully saying it. As for over spending the congress does that not bush or obama. As for health care he doesn't control it the insurance companies do and the goverment will pay the premiums for those that can't. Kind of win win for them. There is more but you won't get the point no matter what I say.


----------



## pirate_girl

Did you watch that entire video Joe and listen well to what she said?
That is some frightening shit if you ask me.
Very much so.


----------



## joec

Yes she was talking about the swine flu vacine, as a nurse you remember when that was I'm sure. Now according to her they was putting in the chip like my dog had and two of my cats have only with GPS so they can track you. Now this is possible as the technology exist but practical or even cost effective I doubt it. Sorry girl i don't by it then or now.


----------



## pirate_girl

joec said:


> *Yes she was talking about the swine flu vacine, as a nurse you remember when that was I'm sure.* Now according to her they was putting in the chip like my dog had and two of my cats have only with GPS so they can track you. Now this is possible as the technology exist but practical or even cost effective I doubt it. Sorry girl i don't by it then or now.


I sure do.
I rejected it *then*.
There are strange things going on within this society which I think a lot of people don't give a second thought to.
That isn't paranoia.. that is fact.


----------



## joec

pirate_girl said:


> I sure do.
> I rejected it *then*.
> There are strange things going on within this society which I think a lot of people don't give a second thought to.
> That isn't paranoia.. that is fact.


 
I don't doubt it for one minute Girl I just don't think this panned out is all. Perhaps something else that can be blamed on Obama then. My point is if it happened not much one could of done about except refuse the shot. I don't take flu shoots regardless so I wasn't implanted or what ever.


----------



## pirate_girl

joec said:


> I don't doubt it for one minute Girl I just don't think this panned out is all. Perhaps something else that can be blamed on Obama then. My point is if it happened not much one could of done about except refuse the shot. I don't take flu shoots regardless so I wasn't implanted or what ever.


This is a thread I best not add much more to, as I could maybe get myself in trouble.
I appreciate your thoughts Joe.


----------



## fogtender

joec said:


> I don't doubt it for one minute Girl I just don't think this panned out is all. Perhaps something else that can be blamed on Obama then. My point is if it happened not much one could of done about except refuse the shot. I don't take flu shoots regardless so I wasn't implanted or what ever.



Well for starters, all the stuff you credited Obama for was started under Bush, Obama wants to cancle most of the programs, but since they started to come to fruitation so he took the credit, can't believe you really fell for it.  Explains a lot of your beliefs!

We got Bin Ladin because of the data collected over the last ten years, Obama took all the credit for it.

The pirates off Somalia was already being addressed when Obama took office.

The Heath care bill is an abortion, it will cost much more after they finish regulating the private insurance out of business.  Clearly you don't pay attention to the news, Medicare was already going to be dismantled when the health care bill was passed, they just found out about it... Which was all democrats doing, the Repub's didn't vote for it and weren't allow amendments.  Nancy Pullmylegski, wouldn't even allow them to see what was in the bill until they voted on it,

You really aren't grasping any of this are you?


----------



## mak2

I dont wanna speak for Joec, but I think our "problem" is we dont read the same propaganda you guys (the collective right) over and over, hear the same lies on the radio over and over, then tell each other the same thing on a forum over and over.  That explains our beliefs.  I get dozens of emails a month with outright lies about Obama and the left...





fogtender said:


> Well for starters, all the stuff you credited Obama for was started under Bush, Obama wants to cancle most of the programs, but since they started to come to fruitation so he took the credit, can't believe you really fell for it.  Explains a lot of your beliefs!
> 
> We got Bin Ladin because of the data collected over the last ten years, Obama took all the credit for it.
> 
> The pirates off Somalia was already being addressed when Obama took office.
> 
> The Heath care bill is an abortion, it will cost much more after they finish regulating the private insurance out of business.  Clearly you don't pay attention to the news, Medicare was already going to be dismantled when the health care bill was passed, they just found out about it... Which was all democrats doing, the Repub's didn't vote for it and weren't allow amendments.  Nancy Pullmylegski, wouldn't even allow them to see what was in the bill until they voted on it,
> 
> You really aren't grasping any of this are you?


----------



## Cowboy

mak2 said:


> I dont wanna speak for Joec, but I think our "problem" is we dont read the same propaganda you guys (the collective right) over and over, hear the same lies on the radio over and over, then tell each other the same thing on a forum over and over. That explains our beliefs. I get dozens of emails a month with outright lies about Obama and the left...


 Wrong again Mak " OUR Problem " as you call it is you ignore all of the threads here that have the facts in them and jump in to derail other threads to attack what YOU call propaganda. Screw the emails you get, not our problem. Take some time to actually READ some articles here for once that are backed up by facts and in a lot of cases from the governments own admission. 

 Its getting rather tiresome trying to go back and find the stuff because you are to lazy to, when you dont want to here it in the first place.


----------



## mak2

It is propoganda.  Repeat it often enough and you believe it.  Adding actual fact to a thread is not usually considered derailing it, excpet here.  I did not insult you personally, lay off me.  Thanks.





Cowboy said:


> Wrong again Mak " OUR Problem " as you call it is you ignore all of the threads here that have the facts in them and jump in to derail other threads to attack what YOU call propaganda. Screw the emails you get, not our problem. Take some time to actually READ some articles here for once that are backed up by facts and in a lot of cases from the governments own admission.
> 
> Its getting rather tiresome trying to go back and find the stuff because you are to lazy to, when you dont want to here it in the first place.


----------



## Kane

I bought a rifle once that was advertised to be the most accurate weapon you could *H*ope for, saying that you would never have to *C*hange the elevation and windage once it was sighted in.

Well, struggle as I might, I could never get it to maintain a decent MOA.  It just didn't shoot worth a damn.  But I defended that rifle to the end, because it was advertised to be the best thing going. For nearly three years I defended that rifle, telling anyone that thought differently it was just another manufacture's propaganda, trying to derail my confidence in that pricey firearm.

Well, it finally came to me one day that it was just a shitty rifle, no doubts about it.  Next year, humbled and remorseful for trusting the glitzy advertising, I traded the damn thing in on a much straighter shooter.
.


----------



## sunlover

I have to say that these type of things (rumors & articles about the government) didn't *start* with the current president. Wasn't it George Bush jr that said *"I'M the decider"*. Just sayin folks...

*No matter that the video is 2 yrs old* or is about a different issue as somes have brought up, articles and videos of this type have been going around for years and i, for one, believe where there's smoke there's fire...or gonna be. All one needs to do is do a search on the "New World Order", Martial Law, or any search that has to do with the government and find out what comes up. It's pretty startling to me and i'm not one that prefers to bury my head in the sand and pretend everything is okie dokie. People will, as it should be, draw their own conclusions and hopefully do their own research.

I would like to add that we, as adults, should be able to debate without *personally **attacking* anothers character, beliefs or comments.

I find ALL of the responses interesting and they give me just one or two (or more lol) reasons for doing more research. Thank you!


----------



## sunlover

.........I just LOVE this emoticon!!


----------



## Kane

Oath Keepers is a fairly new organization but with an ever expanding following.  Thank God.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zztaj2AFiy8"]Oath Keepers Declaration of Orders We Will NOT Obey      - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## sunlover

Kane said:


> The Oath Keepers is a fairly new organization but with an ever expanding following. Thank God.
> 
> Oath Keepers Declaration of Orders We Will NOT Obey - YouTube


 
Yeah, i saw that while looking up some things, along with "the truth about your birth certificate...interesting stuff, to say the least.


----------



## Dargo

Due to me attaining more years of life, I suppose my dementia has set in more.  I seem to have (possibly temporarily) misplaced quite a few firearms along with many thousands of rounds of ammo.  I contacted the gun dealers where I purchased these firearms and they said they were very concerned about a possible flash fire that burned all written and electronic records.  

As a wise Japanese military leader said many decades ago, he fears that there would be a firearm behind nearly every blade of grass in this country.  Millions and millions more firearms have been distributed in this country since then.  Big tanks are great as are our amazing fighting aircraft.  However, the US is far larger than Iraq and the military cannot gather nor contain the firearms in an area roughly the size of California.  To think it could happen to the entire US is simply not something I believe.


----------



## fogtender

mak2 said:


> I dont wanna speak for Joec, but I think our "problem" is we dont read the same propaganda you guys (the collective right) over and over, hear the same lies on the radio over and over, then tell each other the same thing on a forum over and over.  That explains our beliefs.  I get dozens of emails a month with outright lies about Obama and the left...



How is it when I post a video of Obama saying in his own words that you can't see or hear what comes out of his own lips.  That has nothing to do with right/left belief, it has to do to hearing what is said.

Obama and his minions want a civilian defense force "Equal to the military", Hitler's version of the Brownshirts.  Yet you avoid making the connection that came from Obama's own mouth and history written in black and white and blood.

There is a big differance between guessing and seeing the obvious.


----------



## joec

fogtender said:


> How is it when I post a video of Obama saying in his own words that you can't see or hear what comes out of his own lips. That has nothing to do with right/left belief, it has to do to hearing what is said.
> 
> Obama and his minions want a civilian defense force "Equal to the military", Hitler's version of the Brownshirts. Yet you avoid making the connection that came from Obama's own mouth and history written in black and white and blood.
> 
> There is a big differance between guessing and seeing the obvious.


 
Now as I've said before Obama does many things I don't like but those are factual reasons not to support him which I don't. However I also don't buy most of the rumor, gossip type stuff either and prefer real facts not what some guy writes on a blog. I also want to see video posted that aren't edited and if so at least know there is one unedited out there. I wouldn't feel any different regardless of who was being discussed be it president, congressman or a dog catcher.


----------



## mak2

If I recall correctly it is health care officers like doctors and nurses he is talking about.  No matter what it is I dont see how brown shirts is obvious.  I dont want to go thru this again, but last time it came up they posted the order for recruiting docotrs and nurses for civil service as "proof" obama was starting a civil army.  I beleive the order had been written under Reagan.  Again, facts have no bearings on...ok, I will find the thread.  What the heck, I have not seen a person down here all day.  





joec said:


> Now as I've said before Obama does many things I don't like but those are factual reasons not to support him which I don't. However I also don't buy most of the rumor, gossip type stuff either and prefer real facts not what some guy writes on a blog. I also want to see video posted that aren't edited and if so at least know there is one unedited out there. I wouldn't feel any different regardless of who was being discussed be it president, congressman or a dog catcher.


----------



## mak2

http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=38687&highlight=obama+civilian+army

http://factcheck.org/2010/04/obamas-private-army/index.html


Brownshirts = doctors, nurses and other healthcare workers.  yep, that is obvious. 




fogtender said:


> How is it when I post a video of Obama saying in his own words that you can't see or hear what comes out of his own lips.  That has nothing to do with right/left belief, it has to do to hearing what is said.
> 
> Obama and his minions want a civilian defense force "Equal to the military", Hitler's version of the Brownshirts.  Yet you avoid making the connection that came from Obama's own mouth and history written in black and white and blood.
> 
> There is a big differance between guessing and seeing the obvious.


----------



## fogtender

mak2 said:


> http://factcheck.org/2010/04/obamas-private-army/index.html
> 
> 
> Brownshirts = doctors, nurses and other healthcare workers.  yep, that is obvious.



Pretty much a waste of time explaining the differance between "Civilian defense force/Brownshirts" verses Doctors and Nurses.

Sadly, I really thought you could make the connection... 

As Obama didn't stutter when he said that, what point do Doctors and Nurses need the same level of power as the Military?

Brown Shirts started out as Hitlers political base, now Obama appears to think the minions of OWS are going to be his.  At least the Browns Shirts were cleaned up.


----------



## mak2

Again, this has been repeated so often on the far right blogs, forums like this, and other places people have began to believe in it.  Think logically for just a second.  If he really was going to do this why would he give such a long heads up time?  It is not obvious Obama is starting an army of brownshirts.   I think it is nearly delusional.  Remember the birth certificate thing.  Same thing.  





fogtender said:


> Pretty much a waste of time explaining the differance between "Civilian defense force/Brownshirts" verses Doctors and Nurses.
> 
> Really thought you could make connection!


----------



## Cowboy

mak2 said:


> http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=38687&highlight=obama+civilian+army
> 
> http://factcheck.org/2010/04/obamas-private-army/index.html
> 
> 
> Brownshirts = doctors, nurses and other healthcare workers. yep, that is obvious.


 
Factcheck.org is NOT reliable, NOT nonpartisan, TOTALLY owned by the Annenberg Foundation, and are totally in the tank for Obama.

The Annenberg Foundation created the Chicago Annenberg Challenge from a $500 million grant: the largest single gift ever made to American public education. 

Barack Obama and William Ayers, the unrepentant domestic terrorist and leader of the Weatherman Underground, were on the Board of Directors from 1995-2001, and Obama was the Chairman from 1995-1999.

So, NO, Factcheck's agenda has always been to cover up and lie for Obama. Sure, they toss in a few negatives about him, but nothing of any substance.

Link. From 1994 to 2002, Obama served on the boards of directors of the Woods Fund of Chicago, which in 1985 had been the first foundation to fund the Developing Communities Project; and of the Joyce Foundation.[29] He served on the board of directors of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge from 1995 to 2002, as founding president and chairman of the board of directors from 1995 to 1999.[29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama


----------



## fogtender

mak2 said:


> Again, this has been repeated so often on the far right blogs, forums like this, and other places people have began to believe in it.  Think logically for just a second.  If he really was going to do this why would he give such a long heads up time?  It is not obvious Obama is starting an army of brownshirts.   I think it is nearly delusional.  Remember the birth certificate thing.  Same thing.




Go back to post 23 and watch what Obama says, he is a great speaker and pronounces his words clearly.  Then tell where"Right wing" extreme groups are not understanding his words, because to me as a concervitive, I understood them very clearly and there was no mention of Doctors or Nurses in there at all.

Yet you try to deflect what he says as meaningless, but clearly as an obvious follower of his doctrines, you miss the details.


Oh and as far as the birth cert., give me half and hour and I can make a copy of a birth certificate showing him born in Washinton, he has produced a copy, still not an original.  When I went into the Military, I had to produce an original or certified Notarized copy.  But at this point it is a mute argument, he is who he is to his followers, I'm just not one of them.


----------



## mak2

fogtender said:


> Go back to post 23 and watch what Obama says, he is a great speaker and pronounces his words clearly.  Then tell where"Right wing" extreme groups are not understanding his words, because to me as a concervitive, I understood them very clearly and there was no mention of Doctors or Nurses in there at all.
> 
> Yet you try to deflect what he says as meaningless, but clearly as an obvious follower of his doctrines, you miss the details.



OK, I will turn off NPR and go back and listen to it...again.


----------



## joec

fogtender said:


> Pretty much a waste of time explaining the difference between "Civilian defense force/Brown shirts" verses Doctors and Nurses.
> 
> Sadly, I really thought you could make connection...
> 
> As Obama didn't stutter when he said that, what point do Doctors and Nurses need the same level of power as the Military?


 
I went back are re watched those two videos you posted. Now I heard nothing that sounded like the brown shirts, but then I don't see everything as a plot against this nation from our leaders. I did hear something to the effect of having a group to support the military with the impression is was in the event of national catastrophe such as hurricanes, earth quacks etc which often is called upon to do the heavy lifting even in the US. 

Now Rahm was talking about a 3 month draft something I am familiar with. Fact is 3 months of service as compared to 2 years or longer I also don't find particularly threatening. I tend to agree that with him on his point it would teach the young what it means to serve ones country. Most of the young people born after the draft was abolished seemed to have missed the point about serving this country as only 1% of the population actually serves today. If I'm not mistaken also both video had be edited and I remember part of 3 months service could also be in other areas besides military service such as a peace corp.


----------



## mak2

Rahm Emanuel is talking about a book he wrote saying he thinks it woudl be a good idea for everyone to serve two years in some service to the cournty, (in the book) and the video is very sloppy edit.  Obama has about 14 seconds, I did not hear him mention brownshirts.  I know the entire speech is available out there somehwere, but the 20 sec sound bite has been copied on sooo many right wing sites I cant find the real one.  No fogtendeer I guess I am just crazy/stupid.  I dont hear or see what you hear or see.


----------



## fogtender

mak2 said:


> Again, this has been repeated so often on the far right blogs, forums like this, and other places people have began to believe in it.  Think logically for just a second.  If he really was going to do this why would he give such a long heads up time?  It is not obvious Obama is starting an army of brownshirts.   I think it is nearly delusional.  Remember the birth certificate thing.  Same thing.





mak2 said:


> OK, I will turn off NPR and go back and listen to it...again.



No, go back to post 23 and watch what he and his minions say.. Going to NPR is where his followers flock to and nothing unholy is said about their Messiah.  Maybe that is your problem in translations.

You clearly are a good dancer when you don't want to see/hear facts.


----------



## fogtender

mak2 said:


> Rahm Emanuel is talking about a book he wrote saying he thinks it woudl be a good idea for everyone to serve two years in some service to the cournty, (in the book) and the video is very sloppy edit.  Obama has about 14 seconds, I did not hear him mention brownshirts.  I know the entire speech is available out there somehwere, but the 20 sec sound bite has been copied on sooo many right wing sites I cant find the real one.  No fogtendeer I guess I am just crazy/stupid.  I dont hear or see what you hear or see.



Obama or Rahm Emanuel did not mention Brown Shirts,  how could that be?!?  Maybe because I'm the one that made the comparison?  Oh yeah, I did!

Just because they use "Civil Defense Force" instead of Brown Shirts, the object is the same, having a loyal following to do ones bidding.  He knows the military isn't his friend, same view Hitler had of the German military, that is when his Brown Shirts became the highly armed SS.

Sorry you couldn't figure the obvious out, will try to be more discriptive!


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## Dargo

You know we are in trouble when our larger cities have such low overall IQ's that they continue to elect crooks and criminals such as Ram (intentional), Pelosi, Frankenslide, Obama, etc., etc., etc.

What show is it that I saw a couple of episodes of last year that is based in Chicago (I think, but not sure) where a lady cop is fighting crime and corruption and this black guy plays an Alderman who perpetrates crime and makes sure crime doesn't slow any and the people fall for his slick side and keep voting for him even though anyone with an IQ above their show size could see that he is corrupt.  I can say the same thing about most of our large city Democrat representatives; IQ smaller than their shoe size.  Without a doubt, both sides have their share of crooked politicians, it's just the Democrats that take advantage of the lower IQ poor and immigrants (legal and illegal).


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## joec

Dargo said:


> You know we are in trouble when our larger cities have such low overall IQ's that they continue to elect crooks and criminals such as Ram (intentional), Pelosi, Frankenslide, Obama, etc., etc., etc.
> 
> What show is it that I saw a couple of episodes of last year that is based in Chicago (I think, but not sure) where a lady cop is fighting crime and corruption and this black guy plays an Alderman who perpetrates crime and makes sure crime doesn't slow any and the people fall for his slick side and keep voting for him even though anyone with an IQ above their show size could see that he is corrupt. I can say the same thing about most of our large city Democrat representatives; IQ smaller than their shoe size. Without a doubt, both sides have their share of crooked politicians, it's just the Democrats that take advantage of the lower IQ poor and immigrants (legal and illegal).


 
Yes but in Kentucky the low IQ people vote predominately Republican so it is a two way street as neither side have a lock on smart really.


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## mak2

fogtender said:


> No, go back to post 23 and watch what he and his minions say.. Going to NPR is where his followers flock to and nothing unholy is said about their Messiah.  *Maybe that is your problem in translations*.
> 
> *You clearly are a good dancer *when you don't want to see/hear facts.



Ok I have tried to be pleasant, I am not dancing, I dont see it because it is not there.


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## mak2

Did you find some data about IQ and population density?  If you have do you have a link.  That would be interesting.  





Dargo said:


> You know we are in trouble when our larger cities have such low overall IQ's that they continue to elect crooks and criminals such as Ram (intentional), Pelosi, Frankenslide, Obama, etc., etc., etc.
> 
> What show is it that I saw a couple of episodes of last year that is based in Chicago (I think, but not sure) where a lady cop is fighting crime and corruption and this black guy plays an Alderman who perpetrates crime and makes sure crime doesn't slow any and the people fall for his slick side and keep voting for him even though anyone with an IQ above their show size could see that he is corrupt.  I can say the same thing about most of our large city Democrat representatives; IQ smaller than their shoe size.  Without a doubt, both sides have their share of crooked politicians, it's just the Democrats that take advantage of the lower IQ poor and immigrants (legal and illegal).


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## Cowboy

I sure as hell aint sticking up for Obama but that short clip does leave a lot out. I also like to look from all sides no matter how it turns out, but according to this speech I cant see where he has done anything that he stated here unless it was in secret. I also dont agee that what he is saying is a good thing. 

That said heres is a longer one that leads up to the time he said that and another video that is his full speech. BTW the speech is from Colorado Springs, CO
July 2, 2008


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0oxqV_k2Gs&feature=related"]A Call To Service - YouTube[/ame]



[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df2p6867_pw"]Barack Obama: Call to Service in Colorado Springs, CO - YouTube[/ame]


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## Kane

Screw the brownshirts.  The Tea Party can put more guns on the street than anything Obama and Rahm Emanuel can muster.


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## Cowboy

Kane said:


> Screw the brownshirts. The Tea Party can put more guns on the street than anything Obama and Rahm Emanuel can muster.


 Yup and along with that website ( video ) you posted earlier it at least makes me feel much better , I see there are several others linked to that as well . 

  Its nice to see the military and law enforcement getting involved with this more so then some of the somewhat "militia groups" that have been around for years.


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## joec

Cowboy said:


> I sure as hell aint sticking up for Obama but that short clip does leave a lot out. I also like to look from all sides no matter how it turns out, but according to this speech I cant see where he has done anything that he stated here unless it was in secret. I also dont agee that what he is saying is a good thing.
> 
> That said heres is a longer one that leads up to the time he said that and another video that is his full speech. BTW the speech is from Colorado Springs, CO
> July 2, 2008


 
I watched them both entirety cowboy and again I got the civilian defense force as an expansion of the peace corp so we can make friend without using force. Again I heard nothing treating or out of line so for the life of me as you said unless their is some hidden agenda we aren't privy too then not a problem.  I might also add he was talking also about people such as teachers, nurses etc donating time to community needs some thing like the Bush 1 thousand points of light program or any number of such programs through out the history of this country..


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## fogtender

joec said:


> Yes but in Kentucky the low IQ people vote predominately Republican so it is a two way street as neither side have a lock on smart really.



Almost all of the large population centers that are in economic distress are democratic controlled.  Speaks volumes for itself.


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## mak2

Without being delusional I dont see how you get brown shirt out of them.  But hey, dont forget about the Kenyan storm troopers or the FEMA camps.  It is really a shame, there are big policy issues out there but the right spends most to all of its time hysterical about imaginary issues. 





joec said:


> I watched them both entirety cowboy and again I got the civilian defense force as an expansion of the peace corp so we can make friend without using force. Again I heard nothing treating or out of line so for the life of me as you said unless their is some hidden agenda we aren't privy too then not a problem.  I might also add he was talking also about people such as teachers, nurses etc donating time to community needs some thing like the Bush 1 thousand points of light program or any number of such programs through out the history of this country..


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## mak2

fogtender said:


> Obama or Rahm Emanuel did not mention Brown Shirts,  how could that be?!?  Maybe because I'm the one that made the comparison?  Oh yeah, I did!
> 
> Just because they use "Civil Defense Force" instead of Brown Shirts, the object is the same, having a loyal following to do ones bidding.  He knows the military isn't his friend, same view Hitler had of the German military, that is when his Brown Shirts became the highly armed SS.
> 
> Sorry you couldn't figure the obvious out, will try to be more discriptive!



No really dont bother.


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## joec

fogtender said:


> Almost all of the large population centers that are in economic distress are democratic controlled. Speaks volumes for itself.


 
Well our state wide unemployment has dropped from 10.7 to 10.5 for 2009 and 2010 respectively while the state income is per capita vs the US average is 81.5 in 2009 and 82.2 in 2010. The per capita income for Kentucky for 2009 is $31,883 and $33,348 for 2010. So not what I would call top of the list kind of in the middle really.


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## fogtender

joec said:


> I watched them both entirety cowboy and again I got the civilian defense force as an expansion of the peace corp so we can make friend without using force. Again I heard nothing treating or out of line so for the life of me as you said unless their is some hidden agenda we aren't privy too then not a problem.  I might also add he was talking also about people such as teachers, nurses etc donating time to community needs some thing like the Bush 1 thousand points of light program or any number of such programs through out the history of this country..




The peace corp isn't armed and equipped as the military is, the military is designed to distroy enemies, peace corps we're suppose to go into some place and represent "Peace" as in the name... "Civil Defense Force" doen't sound that much like the same type of Org.  

Nice that you want it to be though!


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## joec

fogtender said:


> The peace corp isn't armed and equipped as the military is, the military is designed to distroy enemies, peace corps we're suppose to go into some place and represent "Peace" as in the name... "Civil Defense Force" don't sound that much like the same type of Org.
> 
> Nice that you want it to be though!


 
I actually got that he was saying there is more to our defense as a nation than a strong army but also a diplomatic corp which would include the peace corp. This by the way is how the old USSR made so many in roads during the early years of cold war. They sent doctors, engineers, teachers and builders to countries and the US took a while to figure it out. We sent in business to buy up their natural resouces and try to sell them good then didn't need nor want. That is until the Peace Corp was originally set up. The early years of the cold war the USSR made a lot of inroads into many countries we had to win back later. Their are many sides to national defense really. Nothing political about it just a simple fact.


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