# Why is Diesel 80 to 90-cents/Gal. higher than Unleaded Gas?



## Melensdad

Several weeks ago I saw a big jump in diesel prices and a drop in gasoline prices.  Not sure if its just my area of the country (_Northwest Indiana_).  Diesel here is running about $4.05 per gallon, regular unleaded has dropped down to about $3.15.

I know the US is an EXPORTER of diesel fuel but this is pretty crazy.


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## fogtender

Melensdad said:


> Several weeks ago I saw a big jump in diesel prices and a drop in gasoline prices.  Not sure if its just my area of the country (_Northwest Indiana_).  Diesel here is running about $4.05 per gallon, regular unleaded has dropped down to about $3.15.
> 
> I know the US is an EXPORTER of diesel fuel but this is pretty crazy.




It's because they can.


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## Melensdad

Foggy, I don't doubt that, but up until very recently the price of diesel has been only about 20 to 35 cents more than regular gas.  Why all of a sudden did the difference jump up to 80/90 cents per gallon?


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## FrancSevin

Melensdad said:


> Several weeks ago I saw a big jump in diesel prices and a drop in gasoline prices. Not sure if its just my area of the country (_Northwest Indiana_). Diesel here is running about $4.05 per gallon, regular unleaded has dropped down to about $3.15.
> 
> I know the US is an EXPORTER of diesel fuel but this is pretty crazy.


 
It's the "new Diesel" The refiners must remove so much more of the sulfur because of a feederal mandate that went into effect 2007. And you all thought only the Left made things more expensive to be green.

BTW Biodiesel would have solved this issure without the extra refining.
http://www.purdue.edu/uns/x/2009a/090609LumkesBiodiesel.html

 But we got ETHANOL instead.

Is this a great country or what?


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## Melensdad

Franc I don't think so.  We've have low sulfur diesel for several years.


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## FrancSevin

Melensdad said:


> Franc I don't think so. We've have low sulfur diesel for several years.


 
I din't say different. Pay attention.

We have had low sulfur for year.....2007 to 2011 yeah that would qualify.

It costs more to do it and if all the feed stocks are heavier in sulfur then
the fuel will be higher.

We are currently experiencing a shortage of diesel nationwide. But particularly severe in the mid west. Kansas, Nebraska, Oklahoma, you know the states that would have been served by the new, but put on hold pipeline? 

This has caused a shortage of fuel because the refiners simply cannot keep up with current demands.

Some major truck stops have literaly shut down over this.
http://journalstar.com/business/loc...cle_55315a50-5252-54ab-a670-8142ef03f5b4.html


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## REDDOGTWO

I have seen diesel at 70 cents to a dollar ten higher than gas around here.


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## FrancSevin

Diesel generaly runs about even with Premium Gasoline around here. But it is up from that lately.
In 2003 Diesel was at $1.00 to $139 a gallon. Keep in mind everything you buy in the store is delivered by diesel somewhere along the way form producer to retail.
Imaginge being an independent Over the Road trucker who's main cost component is now four times what it was just a few years ago.

But don't fret folks.  White House says there is no inflation going on.


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## Adillo303

The price difference is not that great here. At the moment.

I would suggest that you use www.gasbuddy.com and find the lowest price in your area and patronize them. It also helps if you report low and high prices in your locale.

That is capitalism and it works.


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## Dargo

I didn't buy yesterday, but regular unleaded was $3.02 at truck stop and (cash) diesel was $4.15!  WTF?!


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## nixon

Probably wrong about this,but doesn't the price of diesel usually take a big jump up at the start of the heating season every year ?
I seem to remember it being that way........ Combination of supply and demand and because they can ?


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## pixie

Diesel usually goes up when heating oil season kicks in. Higher demand. 
I gather that demand is escalating around the world and more diesel is being exported from the US. I looked around on the internet and diesel prices are similar to ours in the countries we are exporting to. 
Kind of sad that there are bad spot shortages in states like Nebraska where lots of truckers buy fuel because of lower state taxes.

ETA: Nixon beat me to it


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## Melensdad

Well I have about 500 gallons in the tank now, looking to add another 500 gallons but at these prices I'm not going to rush out and fill up now.


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## 300 H and H

Also some believe the industry is trying to justifie the pipeline from the canadian oil sands. I predict a spike in prices over the delay of this important project. Untill recently there were much lower prices in the area the pipeline was to be built, because of excess supplies. Now it going to go the other way. ULSD is the road version, and it is about $1 per gallon higher than off road fuel. It is JUNK and will destroy the injector pumps on the older engines over time. It has very little lubrisity or lubrication value in it. If we are the only ones using USLD them we are fools, hamstinging our transpotation infrustructure and driving up prices and the cost of diong business. The EPA is quite effectively regulating the diesel engine out of existance. 2% soy diesel added gets the lub back in USLD. 

Biodiesel plants in my area were closed two years ago. Now they are operational and nearing capacity.. I'll have to enquire with the CEO of R.E.G. why that is....

Kirk


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## Av8r3400

Every winter diesel prices spike.

Diesel = Home heating oil.

Winter = decreased supply of home heating oil = increased price (on top of the gouging for a better, more efficient fuel).



And to all the ethanolics out there that frequent this board, why aren't we making biodiesel from all the bio-waste material that doesn't go into the food stream?  It's a better more ecologically friendly fuel that is not a net energy loss made from a readily available waste product.

Oh, yeah.  Nevermind.


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## Dargo

Melensdad said:


> Well I have about 500 gallons in the tank now, looking to add another 500 gallons but at these prices I'm not going to rush out and fill up now.



That's about what I have, but if I do much work with my big track loader (really big skid steer on tracks), it will drain it's 40 gallon tank by lunch break.  500 gallons doesn't go far that way; *especially when all my diesel is non-dyed fuel and I burn it in my pickup too. * That brings up another issue; how in the hell is it that I can get TAXED on road diesel in my area for a few cents LESS than #2 dyed off road?!  It seems that if you want less than 1500 gallons, they don't want to mess with you.  My little 110 gallon tank in the back of my pickup has been great.  I see a really good price on diesel, I fill my truck and that tank too.  When I get home I just pump that tank empty into my large tank.

When I bought my 550 gallon tank, it cost me $800 even for the brand new tank (purchased, not leased) filled with fuel.  Things are a bit different now!


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## mla2ofus

Dargo said:


> That's about what I have, but if I do much work with my big track loader (really big skid steer on tracks), it will drain it's 40 gallon tank by lunch break.  500 gallons doesn't go far that way; especially when all my diesel if non-dyed fuel and I burn it in my pickup too.  That brings up another issue; how in the hell is it that I can get TAXED on road diesel in my area for a few cents LESS than #2 dyed off road?!  It seems that if you want less than 1500 gallons, they don't want to mess with you.  My little 110 gallon tank in the back of my pickup has been great.  I see a really good price on diesel, I fill my truck and that tank too.  When I get home I just pump that tank empty into my large tank.
> 
> When I bought my 550 gallon tank, it cost me $800 even for the brand new tank (purchased, not leased) filled with fuel.  Things are a bit different now!



  I'm sure you already know this, but don't get caught running offroad diesel in the P/U. The fines are awfully steep.
                                  Mike


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## Melensdad

Dargo said:


> That's about what I have, but if I do much work with my big track loader (really big skid steer on tracks), it will drain it's 40 gallon tank by lunch break. . .


I don't have the big equipment to eat up the fuel.  Sipping my fuel are 2 compact tractors and a 40mpg diesel car.  I'm looking at getting a second 40mpg car next spring.   If I fill up all 1000 gallons I will be able to drive 2 cars for about 15 months before I have to refill the tanks.  

I was hoping for winter-blend fuel, but not at these prices.  I'll just have to fill up when prices drop and condition the new fuel for year round use.


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## 300 H and H

Av8er3400

Yup, 

Seasonality in the heavy oil market is always there, to some degree. I like to wait till after the first of the new year to buy the needs for the comming year. Usually a big sell of occures in Jan.. I need about 7,500 gals of off road, BTW.

Animal fats are big in Bio diesel, and from what I have heard were always a planed part of the mix. Hope this is a good surprise to you, we're already there.

Dargo, $5K per vehical if your caught...in my state anyway...

Regards, Kirk


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## Melensdad

300 H and H said:


> Animal fats are big in Bio diesel, and from what I have heard were always a planed part of the mix. Hope this is a good surprise to you, we're already there.


I'd love to find Bio-Diesel in my area, but can't find it at any of the local pumps.  It may be in the blend, but its not indicated on the pump.


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## 300 H and H

THis is cut from the REG web site, and is an interesting read o bio diesel, from a foremost producer. The CEO is friend of mine....

*Biodiesel plants back from the brink*

*Across the nation, biodiesel plants have been restarting or ramping up production, spurred by a revived federal tax credit and renewable energy mandates.*


September 19, 2011|By David Shaffer
Reporting from Glenville, Minn. — For more than three years, the SoyMor Biodiesel plant sat idle — victim of a slump that took down more than a quarter of the plants in the industry.
But biodiesel is booming again, and a sign of the revival happened recently in this small southern Minnesota town. Workers started up the plant, and soon the fuel was flowing.







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"Everybody kept their fingers crossed and hoped it would be a lot shorter," rehired worker Aaron Kuennen said of the long layoff as he unloaded tanker trucks full of soybean oil Thursday.
Across the nation, biodiesel plants have been restarting or ramping up production, spurred by a revived federal tax credit and renewable energy mandates. The industry's trade group, the National Biodiesel Board, last month reported that U.S. production was headed toward a record year after three consecutive months of record output.
It comes after biodiesel's big bust. At least 52 of the nation's 170 biodiesel plants were idled last year, and others scaled back production, according to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency. In the two years that ended in December, output of U.S. biodiesel for trucks and heavy equipment fell 54%.
In Minnesota, the Glenville plant was among the first to shut down. Its local owners last month sold the plant to the Ames, Iowa, company that built and formerly managed it, Renewable Energy Group Inc.
The plant's sign now is draped with a temporary one bearing the company's initials: REG.
Another of Minnesota's four biodiesel plants, FUMPA Bio-fuels in Redwood Falls, has remained closed since December. The plant, the state's first biodiesel producer in 2004, is for sale, and because it's small and portable, it probably will be moved after it is sold, said Chuck Neece, who heads the biofuels division of the cooperative that owns it.
The U.S. biodiesel industry grew out of a desire by soybean farmers to get better prices early in the last decade.
Minnesota began requiring that biodiesel be blended into diesel fuel sold at pumps in 2005 and now mandates a 5% mix. Nineteen other states offer various incentives in addition to the federal tax credit that has encouraged blenders to use biodiesel in motor fuel.
At first, biodiesel producers relied almost entirely on soybean oil as a feedstock, subjecting it to a chemical reaction with alcohol to produce fuel similar to petroleum diesel. Some plants now have the technology to process waste oils from restaurants and unrefined oils and fats from rendering, meatpacking and ethanol industries. About half of U.S. production still is derived from soy oil, industry officials said.
In the industry's first boom, U.S. output expanded eightfold from 2004 to 2008, peaking at 691 million gallons annually.
"It was awfully exciting," said Ed Hegland, a farmer near Appleton, Minn., who served as chairman of the National Biodiesel Board from 2007 to 2010.
Then the troubles hit — the global financial meltdown, trade barriers that hurt sales to Europe and high soybean prices, Hegland and others said. The worst blow came last year when Congress temporarily eliminated a $1-a-gallon tax credit to encourage blenders to use biofuel.






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"It was extremely difficult to see a renewable energy industry that was just getting legs under it to be so dramatically set back by a number of things out of our control," Hegland said.
At the Glenville biodiesel plant, one of two large Minnesota plants with capacities of 30 million gallons a year, the end came suddenly in March 2008. Rachel Asmus, who recently returned to run the plant's lab, remembered the shock and sadness. "One week I had a job," she said. "Then they told us we wouldn't have jobs at the end of the week."
Biodiesel's revival began after Congress in December restored the tax credit for one year and the EPA established higher biodiesel blending mandates under its renewable fuel standards.
At some plants, production ramped up immediately. But the SoyMor plant in Glenville remained idle until it was sold in July in a stock transaction to REG, the nation's largest biodiesel producer.
In a major industry consolidation, REG has acquired three other plants in the last 18 months. It wants to raise $100 million in an initial public stock offering to acquire another plant it now leases. It also wants to complete work on three plants whose construction was halted during the biodiesel bust.
Myron Danzer, who manages the Glenville plant and two others for REG, said the restart went smoothly. Some electrical components had been damaged by a voltage surge. One pipe was damaged by freezing, others needed to be cleaned and everything needed to be tested, he said.
He hired 20 people, including five former workers, and by Wednesday the first soybean oil was pumped into the system. Six hours later, at 9:14 p.m., Danzer was holding a flashlight and "sitting up on the tank waiting for it to come in." After the first gallons flowed, everyone gathered in the plant's control room to celebrate.


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## Dargo

mla2ofus said:


> I'm sure you already know this, but don't get caught running offroad diesel in the P/U. The fines are awfully steep.
> Mike




That would be hard to happen since I ONLY buy on road, taxed, diesel.  You must have misread something about off road.  It's been so long since I've purchased any dyed diesel that I haven't had a tinge of color to my diesel in years.


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## Dargo

300 H and H said:


> Dargo, $5K per vehical if your caught...in my state anyway...
> 
> Regards, Kirk



Like I said in the previous post, *for running taxed, on road diesel?!*


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## Dargo

Melensdad said:


> I'd love to find Bio-Diesel in my area, but can't find it at any of the local pumps.  It may be in the blend, but its not indicated on the pump.



That's all that's available in my area; on road, or price jacked off road.


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## Melensdad

Dargo said:


> That's all that's available in my area; on road, or price jacked off road.



What blend?  

I know some of the tractor companies allow 100 Bio.  But most of the car engines have the warranty voided out if the blend is more than 10% Bio to 90% Dino Diesel.  Not sure about heavy trucks.


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## 300 H and H

REG recommends the 2% minimum for fuel lubrisity equal to the old diesel or to off road. Off Road is in the 10 year phase out of a cutting back sulfur to USLD standards in 2017...I think.

100% is quite useable though, but usually not available. Since the plants are up and running, thanks to the renewal of the tax credit, I think it will be available soon.

Here is the link to REG...

http://www.regfuel.com/

Regards, Kirk


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## Melensdad

300 H and H said:


> ...100% is quite useable though...


Yes, if you have the emissions system to handle it.  VW and MB both, in their current EPA approved engines, will not handle anything over 10% Bio.  I think the VW engines may only run 5% Bio.  I'm not sure about the BMW diesel engines.  The older VW and MB engines (2009 and older) will run 100% Bio, but the EPA mandates require a much stricter emission system and Bio-Diesel tends to gum them up.


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## muleman RIP

Most of the midwest price spikes are being caused by a big increase in exports to central american countries. They get more money for it so they ship it down the river and load it in tankers to cross the gulf. When they jack the price high enough there will be plenty available. Our reg. gas is down to $3.45 but onroad diesel is running $4.14 right now. Kero is at $4.00 and that is dyed not clear. The EPA regs. have caused the shutdown of 4 major east coast refineries in Delaware and Pa. which adds to the problem.


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## Dargo

Melensdad said:


> What blend?
> 
> I know some of the tractor companies allow 100 Bio.  But most of the car engines have the warranty voided out if the blend is more than 10% Bio to 90% Dino Diesel.  Not sure about heavy trucks.



Since 10% is what everything in my area is, I assumed that was standard.  I've not seen anything different than that except guys who go fight for used grease at restaurants.  Then what I hear is that they generally spend a few thousand on their "still", a few thousand converting their engine and installing a heater for the fuel, several hundred for their grease tank in their truck, then spending thousands more taking out injection pumps etc. when their filtering job isn't that great.  Most cases I know of the guys spent around $15k to get their truck setup to run on grease and the filtering setup and almost all have constant problems with plugged injectors and ruined injection pumps.  After a year or so, they dump everything for about a $25,000 loss and go back to buying fuel at the pump.  Oh, that doesn't count all their time and fuel going to collect the grease, fighting others for the grease and expense for filters.  I'll leave the fuel making process to the experts.

Most of the fuel I burn is actually pumped from the ground within about 100 miles of where I live and refined about 18 miles from where I live.  Here is their site CountryMark


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## 300 H and H

Dargo,

For running "red" off road in an over the road vehical...

Kirk


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## Melensdad

Just double checked.  VW and Audi void the warranty on their TDI engines if the user uses more than 5% Bio-Diesel.

Several states mandate 5% Bio.

I wonder what VW and Audi will do if a state mandates more than 5% Bio blended diesel.


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## muleman RIP

Bio is also heavily used in heating oil anymore. The reduced emissions and longer intervals between cleanings make it very attractive as a heat fuel. It is not recommended beyond B10 if the tank is outside due to gelling issues. Quality control has also improved dramatically in the last 3 years for blended fuels.


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## FrancSevin

300 H and H said:


> Also some believe the industry is trying to justifie the pipeline from the canadian oil sands. I predict a spike in prices over the delay of this important project. Untill recently there were much lower prices in the area the pipeline was to be built, because of excess supplies. Now it going to go the other way. ULSD is the road version, and it is about $1 per gallon higher than off road fuel. It is JUNK and will destroy the injector pumps on the older engines over time. It has very little lubrisity or lubrication value in it. If we are the only ones using USLD them we are fools, hamstinging our transpotation infrustructure and driving up prices and the cost of diong business. The EPA is quite effectively regulating the diesel engine out of existance. 2% soy diesel added gets the lub back in USLD.
> 
> Biodiesel plants in my area were closed two years ago. Now they are operational and nearing capacity.. I'll have to enquire with the CEO of R.E.G. why that is....
> 
> Kirk


 
Easy to predict Kirk as it alredy has happened. Oklahoma refineries are starving for crude. While the pipeline itself would not help the current situation it 's delay has cast a bit of a shadow over the future. 

It's like lifting the ban on Offshore drilling. It did nothing to the immedeate supply lines but OPEC dropped it's prices as soon as the ban lapsed. As I recall, gasoline went down below $2 bucks for a while.
As for the restart of Biodiesel, the tax credits helped but frankly the market demands more capacity.  It ihas been sitting there idle all over the midwest. At $4.00 a gallon, perherhaps there is enough incentives to build a biodiesel program.


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## 300 H and H

Oil companies use the refinery shortage to artifically creat shortages to run up the price. A couple of years ago there was to be built a new refinery on the east coaste. It was nixed by the petrolium indurstry here, as they had a law passed years ago the states the ownership must be by a majority US citizens. It had too much forein ownership and was not built. We are being strangled by the US oil companies so they can manipulate supplies and consequently prices. They are using the EPA as an ally, as they would hate any new refiners in the newly green national picture....How convenient. You cann't say they are stupid, but a case can easily be made that they are GREEDY.

Big Pharma discovered these tactics as well, but not sure who was first...

Regards, Kirk


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## FrancSevin

Melensdad said:


> Just double checked. VW and Audi void the warranty on their TDI engines if the user uses more than 5% Bio-Diesel.
> 
> Several states mandate 5% Bio.
> 
> I wonder what VW and Audi will do if a state mandates more than 5% Bio blended diesel.


 
Turbo Direct injection should not pose a problem with Biodiesel. I wonder what the issues are.

I have run both my Cummins and my Mercedes engines on pure Biodiesel with no ill effects.  Actually I got better milage and quiter smoother running.

IOWA had Biodiesel all over the state for a while.  Made many trips to Minneapolis from St Louis in the Benz.  Loved the bio diesel.


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## Melensdad

FrancSevin said:


> Turbo Direct injection should not pose a problem with Biodiesel. I wonder what the issues are.



The engines run fine, the problem is meeting the EPA mandates.  As the engines get larger they require urea injection and an after-burner that is in the exhaust.  The Bio gums up and clogs the after burner in the exhaust system.  In the smaller cars they can do without the urea, but they still use the burner in the exhaust system.


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## FrancSevin

Melensdad said:


> The engines run fine, the problem is meeting the EPA mandates. That requires urea injection and an after-burner that is in the exhaust. The Bio gums up and clogs the after burner in the exhaust system.


 
Interesting.  I experienced no issues with that at all.


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## Dargo

300 H and H said:


> Dargo,
> 
> For running "red" off road in an over the road vehical...
> 
> Kirk



I know it's wrong, and somebody is robbing somebody, but why pay *more* for fuel that is dyed to clearly mark it has not been taxed for road use?  In your situation where you would buy quite a bit more than 750 to 1000 gallons at a time they may cut you a break (if you lived around here), but it's cost more for #2 off road than taxed, non-dyed, #2 diesel here for years.

When I got my first tank,not all that long ago in reality, #2 off road was about $0.59 a gallon.  I have plenty of receipts from where I paid right around $200 to fill my 550 gallon tank.  Granted, my pickup in the tank is a couple inches above the bottom to try not pick up the crud that drops to the bottom, but it was pretty well always over 500 gallons anyway.

I may be wrong, but in my eyes, it's the distributor who is the crook in this situation.  I think the fuel tax in my state is $0.45 a gallon.  The last time I called the distributor, it was $0.18 *less* per gallon for me to buy taxed, non-dyed diesel and it has been that way for several years now.  Something is very wrong with that picture!

Oh, FWIW, we have a female DOT cop who makes it her mission in life pulling over pickups, especially if they have a farm plate, and giving them the giant Q-tip treatment to check for dyed diesel.  She has to be one of the state's most profitable employees.  Every time our local 4H has some horse show, she nails several dozen people.  Heck, one of my relatives own a reasonably large wrecker service and they make it a standard practice to send 2 or 3 wreckers out to the 4H for every horse show.  She impounds the truck and won't let them go until the tank has been drained (and I don't think they get their fuel back), flushed, all lines flushed and all filters changed and one of her minions gives it a thorough checking out.  It's amazing she still catches that many people when she's been well known for probably 10 years or more.  If she can't get you on illegal fuel, she whips out her portable scales and weighs each axle at the horse shows too.  She'll put you through 2 hours of hell trying to get you on something and is pissed as hell if she can't.  I got her treatment once a few years ago going to the couple hundred acres I have about 20 miles from me.  She was rude as hell and pissed even more when she couldn't find anything to give me a citation for.


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## Dargo

FrancSevin said:


> Interesting.  I experienced no issues with that at all.



LOL, I think my old '96 Dodge with the 5.9 Cummins would darn near run on crude oil!  It was not picky in the least.  Yeah, yeah, I'm still kicking myself for selling that truck.  It always sat inside, was a 1 owner when I bought it, and I made a beast out of it so it was fun too.   Here is a picture of it when it was 12 years old.


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## FrancSevin

I'm stillrunning my '95 dually one ton. 250K miles.
Rode hard and put away wet most of it's life.

Likely will rust away before the Cummins goes.

Only issues with the engine was a fuel regulator valve.
Only real issues with the truck are the front balljoints.

If you keep the oil changed at 3,000 miles, do all the filters and keep the fuel clean and fresh, damm diesel will run forever.

I'll keep her for a whole yet as nothing new has my eye.


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## 300 H and H

Dargo,,
Yes there is something wrong in your area Iowa is at 55 cents on road tax, and the off road is nearly always 55 cents cheaper than the on road. Sounds to me like some one is gouging the local big users, i.e. Farmers ( his own subsity from ethanol?) Surely you have some one who isn't a crook around some where who has off road?

Kirk


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## 300 H and H

After the ethanol thread this one seems like a dream. The story here biodiesel is the "forgotten" fuel, as the tax breaks went away, and it was a long time before there were put back in place. 

I know many of you like bio diesel and so do I. A 2% blend is enough to make quite a difference to USLD. 

I am membeer of the farmers coop that started REG. For the last several years it has been feared locally the coop would maybe fail if REG did. So this positive tone I am hearing from you guys is a good sign. I hope you could consider, if you are in favor, to get ahold of your cogress people, and let them know you support it, if not that is OK as well.

quality control of this product as well as ethanol is much better in the states who have had years of experiance with these fuel blends. I hope those of you who suffer from poor blenders eventually are rewarded for your patience, while they are trying to get it right. This is a local issue though.

Kirk


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## Kane

Marine diesel at the fuel dock >>  $5.00 - $5.25 gal.  <<  OUCH!


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## Snowtrac Nome

Ok guys i work in the industry you are paying more for 2 reasons first it's because they can refined product prices ae set by the refinerys not the oil suppliers yes the price of oil impacts the price of the refined product but because the refined products are comoditys they can be traded and spot price is what is driving the price also the fedral government wants you to comute with a gas motor as the emissions and and economy standrads are much higher in other countrys diesel is a comercial fuel and to prevent inflation there are caps on the prices you can charge for it which makes diesel the prefered fuel in smaller countrys


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## Dargo

dds said:


> ...which makes diesel the prefered fuel in smaller countrys



Um, you mean in most of the rest of the civilized world?  If we are almost the only country where you cannot get diesel versions of what is best sellers in other countries for certain products, we are in the dark ages.

Yeah, to some people diesel smells bad.  However, it's emissions won't kill you like that of even a small gas engine.  I have 5 generations of underground coal miners in my family.  You use a gasoline engine underground and you kill everyone.  For decades they ran diesel powered equipment underground with no restrictions and they didn't drop like flies.  Also, how many gasoline powered vehicles do we use in the military in comparison to diesel?  There are a vast number of ways that diesel is superior to gasoline.  Our government knows that yet forces us to drive gasoline/garbage mixture engines.  There is something very, very wrong with this issue and it's not all to do with pollution bullshit.  We have the technology and ability to produce diesel out of vast coal reserves in our very own country but we don't do so.  I can't believe at the current price of diesel that it wouldn't be getting close to being cost effective.  Hell, Hitler did it when we cut off their fuel supply lines.  Most of their stuff was diesel powered anyway, so that embargo really worked, not.


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## Dargo

300 H and H said:


> Dargo,,
> Yes there is something wrong in your area Iowa is at 55 cents on road tax, and the off road is nearly always 55 cents cheaper than the on road. Sounds to me like some one is gouging the local big users, i.e. Farmers ( his own subsity from ethanol?) Surely you have some one who isn't a crook around some where who has off road?
> 
> Kirk



No, really.  Some of the large farmers, several thousand acre farms, get it for less than taxed, non-dyed diesel, but otherwise we just get the shaft.  But, hey, we're together on biodiesel.


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## Melensdad

300 H and H said:


> After the ethanol thread this one seems like a dream. The story here biodiesel is the "forgotten" fuel, as the tax breaks went away, and it was a long time before there were put back in place. . .


Kirk that is because Bio-Diesel Blends actually makes economic sense.  Its more efficient than regular diesel, it can be made from waste or farm product, its economical to operate, etc.


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## FrancSevin

300 H and H said:


> After the ethanol thread this one seems like a dream. The story here biodiesel is the "forgotten" fuel, as the tax breaks went away, and it was a long time before there were put back in place.
> 
> I know many of you like bio diesel and so do I. A 2% blend is enough to make quite a difference to USLD.
> 
> I am membeer of the farmers coop that started REG. For the last several years it has been feared locally the coop would maybe fail if REG did. So this positive tone I am hearing from you guys is a good sign. I hope you could consider, if you are in favor, to get ahold of your cogress people, and let them know you support it, if not that is OK as well.
> 
> quality control of this product as well as ethanol is much better in the states who have had years of experiance with these fuel blends. I hope those of you who suffer from poor blenders eventually are rewarded for your patience, while they are trying to get it right. This is a local issue though.
> 
> Kirk


 
I believe I brought this up in the Ethanol Thread. Several times.


Diesel was the wa to go backin the late 80's.  But the ag industry was looking for bigger profits and more reasons to grow, more profitable dent Corn.
It has been a while but, I believe we get more bushels out of Corn than any other grain.   Correct me if I am wrong here.

That means , in todays market, Some $200 more per acre.


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## thcri RIP

FrancSevin said:


> It has been a while but, I believe we get more bushels out of Corn than any other grain.   Correct me if I am wrong here.



In all of my years farming you are correct and I believe that stands today yet.


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## 300 H and H

That is about right franc,

And corn is also the highest yeilding crop on a per acre basis as was stated. South America will be no1 in soybean production soon if not already. They do better down there than corn does, for some reason. Soybeans are more heavily used in our food products excluding livestock feed than corn is, as a percentage. We export a vary large portion of soy as well, mostly to China....

Regards, Kirk


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## Av8r3400

I have a friend who brews his own (waste fryer oil) bio diesel.  He runs several TDi VWs in his business.  None of them have less than 500k on the original motors.  $.02 per mile fuel cost.  He runs the bio in his home furnace, and all of his other equipment.  In the bitter cold, he cuts it with a touch of jet fuel.

Bio diesel and compression ignition engines in general are our way our of the fuel issues this country suffers.  For whatever reason the government does not want the problem solved.


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## Melensdad

Av8r3400 said:


> Bio diesel and compression ignition engines in general are our way our of the fuel issues this country suffers.  For whatever reason the government does not want the problem solved.



100% Agreed


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## 300 H and H

A quite satifactory bio diesel can be made on the farm. The extruder is chinese and has a two cylinder lister type diesel engine. It sqeezes the oil from the soybean.  the soy meal is sold as live stock feed, and the oil is filtered and unleaded gasoline is added in a 5 to one ration to thin it down some, and prevents waxing in the system. In the winter you add a bit more unleaded to prevent gellups. Interesting.....Though I have not considered it, yet

Regards, Kirk


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## muleman RIP

I would hope they restart the new plant below Williamsport,Pa. if the price stays up. Local bean crops took a beating with the floods and very wet fall we have had. Lots of corn and beans still in fields that are too wet to get in.


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