# Thinking of getting a Cub Cadet/Yanmar ex3200 tractor?



## Melensdad

Looking for a bigger tractor.  My little New Holland has served me well but I'm going bigger projects on my land and while the little TC24 is a fantastic little brute for its size, it is still limited by its size.

Looking around, the Cub Cadet/Yanmar ex3200 looks to fit my needs but I honestly don't know anything about them.  I have a local dealer, who I trust, been selling Kubota/Cub Cadet for at least 20 years.  I've had many dealings with him.  

Anyone know anything about these new Cub/Yanmar tractors?  They've been in a joint venture for a couple years, I figure they probably have the bugs worked out by now.

From Cub's website:
http://www.cubcadet.com/webapp/wcs/...y_10051_14101_1210157_1210107_600003_-1_image*A POWERFUL TRACTOR. AN EVEN MORE POWERFUL EXPERIENCE.
EX2900/3200 SERIES TRACTORS*



Powerful, durable, and just plain tough
28.7 and 32 HP* direct injection engines are cleaner burning and more efficient
3-range hydrostatic transmission provides consistent delivery of horsepower and a more powerful drive system
Hydrostatic power steering for a smooth ride over rough terrain
Dual hydro pedal control
Dual hydraulic pumps (9.9 total GPM)
Curved boom loader and backhoe available
QuickAttach™ loader bucket available
2-year (tractor) and 3-year (engine/drivetrain) limited warranty (see your independent dealer for warranty details)​


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## loboloco

Kubota makes a line of good small tractor.  Yanmar used to be good, but haven't used a new one.  What hp range were you wanting?


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## Big Dog

I thought you had a larger Kubota?


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## Melensdad

Big Dog said:


> I thought you had a larger Kubota?



Yes and No.

Had a B2910 with my neighbor (partners in the tractor).  But that tractor has no more lift capacity and only slightly more traction that mine.  The tractor is currently living at the neighbors, I'm no longer a partner in it, could use it if I wanted, we still share all sorts of implements but we both ended up needed our own so the partnership is no longer formal.  Still, that tractor, despite having 30 hp, is lighter duty than I'd like to consider.

As for HP range, something in the 30 to 34hp range . . . but with a slightly larger frame than I have . . . with more weight . . . with more traction and lift capacity.  

Whatever the new version of the New Holland TC33 would be good too.  I've not gone over to look at the new N.H. line up so I don't know their current model numbers.  But I don't want a frame size as big as the old TC35.  Ditto the old Kubota L3130 frame size, I'd like it just smaller than that and with hydrostatic transmission (hydro was not available on the old L3130).

The Cub/Yanmar model line also includes a 'deluxe' model called the sx3100, which has somewhat less capacity than the ex3200, somewhat less weight, but is the same overall length as the ex3200, while only losing about a 1/2 hp.


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## Big Dog

Melensdad said:


> Yes and No.
> 
> Had a B2910 with my neighbor (partners in the tractor).  But that tractor has no more lift capacity and only slightly more traction that mine.  The tractor is currently living at the neighbors, I'm no longer a partner in it, could use it if I wanted, we still share all sorts of implements but we both ended up needed our own so the partnership is no longer formal.  Still, that tractor, despite having 30 hp, is lighter duty than I'd like to consider.
> 
> As for HP range, something in the 30 to 34hp range . . . but with a slightly larger frame than I have . . . with more weight . . . with more traction and lift capacity.
> 
> Whatever the new version of the New Holland TC33 would be good too.  I've not gone over to look at the new N.H. line up so I don't know their current model numbers.  But I don't want a frame size as big as the old TC35.  Ditto the old Kubota L3130 frame size, I'd like it just smaller than that and with hydrostatic transmission (hydro was not available on the old L3130).
> 
> The Cub/Yanmar model line also includes a 'deluxe' model called the sx3100, which has somewhat less capacity than the ex3200, somewhat less weight, but is the same overall length as the ex3200, while only losing about a 1/2 hp.



Get a Kioti ..............


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## loboloco

Belarus has a few in the 250 and 310 models that might be close to what you want.  Fairly simple machines, but wait times for parts can be aggravating.


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## Melensdad

loboloco said:


> Belarus has a few in the 250 and 310 models that might be close to what you want.  Fairly simple machines, but wait times for parts can be aggravating.


Nope.  Only want to deal with a local dealer.  None are nearby.

I'm limited to Bobcat/Kioti (not real close but close enough), John Deere, New Holland, Cub Cadet/Yanmar and Kubota.


Kioti might be reasonable, but local dealer is not very local (in next county), that is the Bobcat model CT230.  Seems *a lot* heavier and offers less horsepower but somewhat greater lift capacities.


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## Melensdad

Oh by the way, Cub Cadet is offering a FREE FRONT END LOADER on the sx3100 and ex3200 models until the end of August.  So that alone is worth giving up a bit of capacity or accepting less than perfect specifications.  Still the tractors look nice in real life and the paper specs look pretty good too.

BTW, the Kubota is looking to be about $19000 for a B3300 with front end loader, which seems to be more money than anything else I can find to compare it too.


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## Big Dog

Melensdad said:


> Oh by the way, Cub Cadet is offering a FREE FRONT END LOADER



So is Kioti!


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## Dargo

My Takeuchi equipment is Yanmar powered, I absolutely loved the older Yanmar JD tractors I had (I see one of them at least a few times a month - the guy who bought the JD870 from me is still thrashing it and has over 6000 hours on it) and one of my more affluent friends tells me that no "decent" yacht has anything but a Yanmar for a powerplant.

I really despise the Cub name because of how they were a whore with the name and Cub no longer automatically means quality.  However, the Cub/Yanmar deal looks about as sweet as it gets.  The church by me, my closest neighbor, bought a Cub/Kioti from one of those long distance deals and it's not worked out very well at all for them.  I don't know if Cub changed them or what, but they are well past wanting to unload it.  The problem is that they're looking at taking an absolute beating on resale.

Sorry BD, but I honestly (no jab, just the truth) wasn't impressed with the Kioti I took several hours to go over a few years ago before I bought my last JD.  I really could see why there was a difference in price between the two and I've not regretted my decision.  I'd rank Kioti with Mahindra as far as being on the same level.  If I wanted to have price as one of my main decision makers, I'd likely go with Mahindra or Kioti.  I'm too spoiled with the big three tractors I've owned.  As of about 4 years ago, Kioti honestly just wasn't on equal footing with them.  However, as you likely know, I own one of the most expensive Korean vehicles ever imported to this country.  You can't accuse me of being 'anti-Korean' by any means.  Maybe the tractors have stepped it up in the last 4 years, but it seems that tractors are slower to react to customer demands than automakers.  Hmm, I just went to Kioti's site and looked for my "nearest" dealer.  I guess the one 'semi-local (60 miles) dealer went out of business.  I now don't have one in 100 miles.

Either way, I wouldn't expect Bob to have any issues at all with his Yanmar made tractor in Cub Cadet colors.  I'd love to have a 25Kw Yanmar diesel generator to be honest.


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## Melensdad

Big Dog said:


> So is Kioti!


Except, as I said, the dealer is an hour+ away in the next county.  To put that into some frame of reference, the Cub/Yanmar dealer is 4.2 miles East of my house, the John Deere dealer is 3.75 miles east of my house.  The New Holland dealer is 8 miles west.





Dargo said:


> My Takeuchi equipment is Yanmar powered, I absolutely loved the older Yanmar JD tractors I had. . .
> . . . I wouldn't expect Bob to have any issues at all with his Yanmar made tractor in Cub Cadet colors.  I'd love to have a 25Kw Yanmar diesel generator to be honest.


Well I am not 'sold' on the Cub/Yanmar.  I looked at them this afternoon.  The sx3100 is a 'nicer' tractor but probably about the same size tractor as my NH TC24 except with a 31hp engine.  The ex3200 is more of a workhorse type tractor, bigger, taller, beefier and probably more suitable for what I am needed but still not too big to get down my narrow paths, etc.  There were no comparable Kubota tractors on the lot and the owner/salesguy had just gone home so I missed talking to him.  I'd looked at the JD lot, but they had exactly 2 tractors, of those 1 might have maybe been the size I was looking for.  I kept driving by without bothering to stop.  The NH dealer is the opposite direction, I'll get out there in the next week or two.

Still not sure I'm going to trade up, but I'm leaning that way.


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## Cowboy

I cant speak for the Cub Cadet as I dont know anyone that has one . But the yanmars are great tractors & very popular in & around this area & Oklahoma . I know several folks that have them & not one has ever had a major issue with them . 

   I,ve only had one of the smaller yanmar models & it was a great little tractor , only issues were the front axle seals leaking because it had not been maintained properlly , But there was no problem finding parts for it .

  As dargo said the yanmar engine are very good & used in many things including John deere tractors .  I sure do like the looks of the one you posted though .


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## Dargo

Big Dog said:


> So is Kioti!



After looking again, I think Bob's best buy is the new DK90.  Haven't seen one in person, but it appears as if Kioti has addressed my previous complaints in this new iteration.  Sure it's a few extra hp, but when do you ever have too much hp?


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## Melensdad

I've got a New Holland TC24d tractor, great machine, love it for its small size but great power.  Still, as my projects expand, the small size is becoming more of an issue for me and I may need a bigger machine.

Local dealers are John Deere 3.75 miles east.  Cub/Yanmar & Kubota, 4.50 miles east.  And New Holland 8 miles west.  I don't care to look farther than these dealerships, I've had dealings with all of them, all have given me great service over the years.  

Cub Cadet dealer has a two tractors on the lot that look good.  One is the sx3100, the other is the ex3200.  Both are attractive because Cub/Yanmar is offering a *"free front end loader" *if you buy before Aug 31, 2010.

The *sx3100* appears to be similar to the New Holland I own in that it is a feature filled small machine, even has a cup holder   Obviously more powerful engine, bigger bucket, but size is really just slightly larger than my TC24d.  
The *ex3200* is a bigger heavier machine, more basic in some ways, but still nice enough.  Seems to be the better machine for moving dirt, hauling things, etc because of its size.
But here is my problem, when I look over the specifications I don't see either of these machines as being stand outs in any way other than price advantage:
3pt Lift Capacity at 24" behind the ball eyes:

Cub/Yanmar sx3100 = 1209#
Cub/Yanmar ex3200 = 1100#
Kubota B3200 HSD = 1300#
my current NH TC24d = 1265#
** New Holland 2030 = 1635#*
Weight of tractor:

Cub/Yanmar sx3100 = 2030#
Cub/Yanmar ex3200 = 2500#
Kubota B3200 HSD = 1764#
my current NH TC24d = 1600#
** New Holland 2030 = 2605#*

FEL capacity:  BREAKOUT FORCE @ pivot pins

Cub/Yanmar sx3100 = 2090#
Cub/Yanmar ex3200 = 2500#
Kubota B3200 HSD = 2474#
my current NH TC24d = 1720#
** New Holland 2030 = 2700#*
FEL capacity:  Capacity at full height @ 500mm forward of pins.

Cub/Yanmar sx3100 = 693#
Cub/Yanmar ex3200 = 770#
Kubota B3200 HSD = 730#
my current NH TC24d = 750#
** New Holland 2030 = 1183#*
PTO Horsepower:

Cub/Yanmar sx3100 = 23.5
** Cub/Yanmar ex3200 = 25.5*
Kubota B3200 HSD = 23
my current NH TC24d = 19.5
New Holland 2030 = 24.5 
What seems to shock me about ALL of these options is that NONE of them are overwhelming my little TC24d except the larger New Holland 2030, and that is physically the largest tractor of the bunch.  In some cases I would give up some capacity to go to a new, somewhat larger, tractor, depending on the model chosen.  

ALL of the newer models listed above have more PTO horsepower than my current tractor and for tilling in my heavy clay that will be a very helpful thing!!!  So that can be some justification for upgrading to the larger engines all these newer models utilize.  

I really have never had a lift capacity issue with my FEL.  Carrying a full bucket of clay soil has not been an issue, I don't expect it will become an issue with a new tractor.   But I do run into *BREAKOUT FORCE* capacity issues and the more of that, the merrier!!!  Two of the 3 new models offer significant increases, one offers a modest increase in that capacity.  

The one other issue that I consider reasonably important is 3pt lift capacity.  I have a home made pallet mover that attaches to my 3pt lift.  When I get pallets of bagged materials delivered I often am forced to unload 1/2 the pallet so that I can lift it with the forks.  So this is another area where I'd like lots of capacity.  NONE of these tractors gives me any significant improvement and the one that has the best other spec's actually has the worst 3pt performance!?!

I've not yet checked out the new models from New Holland in person, on paper they look darn good, in fact it confirms why I went with New Holland last time.  *But all those great specs come at the price of size.  The NH 2030 is a good bit physically larger than the other tractors.  That will be a problem on my property so while it looks great, I'd probably disqualify it because it won't fit through my gates and will require me to rebuild/widen some paths, etc. * 

I went by the John Deere dealer and he had exactly 2 tractors on the lot and neither looked to be what I was looking for so I continued past.

*So here is my question,* and I must decide before the end of August to get a free front loader,* is it even worth it to upgrade my tractor to the new Cub Cadet ex3200?*


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## muleman RIP

Unless you till commercially you really can discount the pto hp as you only do it a small percent of time. Now running a bigger bush hog or other power hungry attachments is a different story. As for the pallets why not get a quick change front one and get forks for it. More capacity and lift plus the ability to stack stuff. Lots of attachments available for front app's these days. I don't have the need for them on a tractor as I use my Gehl skid steer for those things.


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## Tractors4u

I'm about to sell a Deere 4310 with loader and backhoe if you're interested in coming to Alabama!


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## Melensdad

Well I looked at the Kubota L3400 today and compared it to the ex3200.  Physically its quite a bit larger than the ex3200 and would have more capacity for work, but would also require that I then get rid of all my implements and I want to avoid doing that!

I share implements with on of my neighbors, most of them are mine and mostly he gets to use them because he can repair anything.  So if I go up too large in tractor size then I have to factor in a few thousand extra dollars for implements and he won't be able to use them.  Consequently I'm not interested in the Kubota L3400.  The B3200 doesn't offer enough advantage to upgrade but costs plenty more $$$$ so there is no reason to upgrade to that since it would mostly be a wallet buster that doesn't provide enough performance upgrade to justify the costs since the TC24 gives me most of what the B3200 offers already.

After a more detailed analysis of the ex3200, it seems to me to be an upgraded version of the old John Deere/Yanmar 790/990 series tractor.  Upgraded in a few ways, mostly in the fact that it has an HST transmission.  Overall ergonomics are OK, not great/not bad, but not up to the standards of New Holland or newer John Deere units.  You can tell this is not the newest design off the drawing board.  It is clearly serviceable and the fender mounted loader control valve is in a good location, the floor platform is fairly roomy and semi-flat.  The hydro pedals are 2 different pedals, one each for forward/reverse instead of the more common single rocker pedal.  It does not have independent right/left brakes, just one pedal to control both.

Looks like Cub/Yanmar is coming out with a new line of tractors too.  Not sure if it will be more of a luxury class like the smaller sx3100 tractor or if it will be an expansion of the more utility ex3200 series.

Will the ex3200 work for me?  Yup.  Will I buy it?  Not sure.  I'm not sold on it but there don't really seem too be many choices that would fit the 'sweet spot' of size/capabilities that I am looking for.


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## Dargo

Ok, go here Bob's new tractor and look at the specs on your new L5040HSTC. 

Done.

See how simple?


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## Melensdad

I think some of my tree branches will knock the cab off that tractor.

BTW, I checked out the specs of the BRANSON tractors (HST models) and those look pretty darn weak.  If the NH came is a slightly smaller frame size I would grab one of those, it clearly out specs the competition.


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## Erik

the older Bransons were made by Kukje - the new ones are made by LG (were being sold as Montana before Branson bought into them)
Kukje was a pleasant surprise to me power-wise.
TYM would be another good one if you had them available in your area.

what size implements and gate are you trying to stay inside of?


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## Dargo

Melensdad said:


> I think some of my tree branches will knock the cab off that tractor.



Gees, that's right, you like the heat, bug bites, stings and that refreshing winter blast in the face.  Any limbs that are not easily ripped off by my FEL meet Mr. Chainsaw.   So far, a few thousand trees are yet to score against any of my cabs.


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## Melensdad

Adding the Bobcat tractor into the matrix and it looks good except for the size.  It is slightly larger than the New Holland 2030/2035 series machines in length, heavier and taller.  Its 35hp engine is higher than any of the others, there is a 30hp version of this same machine but given its size/weight I honestly think its silly to put a 30hp engine in this size machine.  The NH also is available with a 35hp engine but I only compared the 30hp NH.
3pt Lift Capacity at 24" behind the ball eyes:

Bobcat ct235 = 1508#
Cub/Yanmar sx3100 = 1209#
Cub/Yanmar ex3200 = 1100#
Kubota B3200 HSD = 1300#
my current NH TC24d = 1265#
New Holland 2030 = 1635#
Weight of tractor:

Bobcat ct235 = 3056#
Cub/Yanmar sx3100 = 2030#
Cub/Yanmar ex3200 = 2500#
Kubota B3200 HSD = 1764#
my current NH TC24d = 1600#
New Holland 2030 = 2605#

FEL capacity:  BREAKOUT FORCE @ pivot pins

Bobcat ct235 = 1904# (at 500mm forward, roughly 2500# at pins)
Cub/Yanmar sx3100 = 2090#
Cub/Yanmar ex3200 = 2500#
Kubota B3200 HSD = 2474#
my current NH TC24d = 1720#
New Holland 2030 = 2700#
FEL capacity:  Capacity at full height @ 500mm forward of pins.

Bobcat ct235 = 1225#
Cub/Yanmar sx3100 = 693#
Cub/Yanmar ex3200 = 770#
Kubota B3200 HSD = 730#
my current NH TC24d = 750#
New Holland 2030 = 1183#
PTO Horsepower:

Bobcat ct235 = 26.5
Cub/Yanmar sx3100 = 23.5
Cub/Yanmar ex3200 = 25.5
Kubota B3200 HSD = 23
my current NH TC24d = 19.5
New Holland 2030 = 24.5 

Right now the Bobcat is ONLY in consideration until August 1.  There is a rebate to offset the cost of a FEL, that expires on August 1 so if I buy a tractor before August 1 then I will consider the Bobcat, after August 1 and the Bobcat is no longer cost competitive.


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## grizzer

Bob just crack the purse strings a little and get what you really want: A vineyard version that's about 48-60" wide, strong enough to lit your pickup & change a tire.

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## Melensdad

OK slept on it.  Considered it.  

Here is what I think.  

The Cub is the 'right size' tractor for me but its hydraulics are pretty light duty compared to some of the others.  It will offer 'some' advantage over my current tractor but not a significant amount; still the advantages it offers are probably enough to make it worth buying _(especially 'breakout force'). _  It is a 'basic' machine and I'm used to a full featured 'deluxe' machine so that is a real trade off in details/features/etc.  My wife actually warned me to make sure that if I do trade in my NH _(she knows I like it) _to make sure I get something actually like, not something I'm settling for because its on the dealer's lot.

The Kubota is simply not worth the money for me.  It gives me advantages over my current tractor but the price is substantially higher than the Cub ex3200 and that makes the Kubota --for me-- a bad trade up since my current NH is paid for and has 85+% of the capacity of the Kubota in most areas.

The Bobcat is too big.  Physical dimensions should rule it out, just like I ruled out the Kubota L3400.  But the price/features/performance are keeping it in consideration until August 1 while they have their rebate offer.  It offers some clear advantages to my current tractor, clear advantages over the Kubota B series tractor, at the cost of being too large to get through the gates into my dog yard. . . at least 1 of those gates will be replaced later this year so that will be an easy fix if I opt for a larger tractor.

I'm going to try to get to the Bobcat dealer today or tomorrow _(more likely)_ to see the ct235.  Last time I looked at a CK30_ (the Kioti version)_ was several years ago.  Lots of features, low price, questionable dealer quality, new to market with no track record for reliability.  Now that there is a viable dealer and a track record, the Bobcat variant is worthy of a second glance.  I have decided that even if the Bobcat version is more expensive than the Kioti version _(it is by about $1000)_ that the dealer is more important than the price and I simply don't trust the Kioti dealer.  NOT saying I'm sold on the Bobcat, if I am going to consider upping the size to the Bobcat then I'm going to probably have to go back to N.H. and revisit the NH 2030 and 2035 machines.
_*BTW, there do appear to be some differences other than the color of paint between the Bobcat and the Kioti.*  Things like a full suspension seat are available, and other creature comforts that would make all day work more comfortable.  

I suspect the Bobcat engineers/designs looked at what they put on their work machines and added them (some as options) to the ct235, not just to set it apart, but also to differentiate the tractor as a work tractor rather than a hobby farm tractor.  The differences are minor and are in comfort level, mechanically they appear to be the same.​_


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## Erik

IIRC, Bobcat has a different loader than Kioti, as well as some other fit and finish type things (like the seat).  Test ride one.  If it's not comfy to you, it's the wrong machine, no matter how good it looks on paper.
Good on you for putting dealer support ahead of $$, too!


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## Melensdad

Erik said:


> . . . Test ride one.  If it's not comfy to you, it's the wrong machine, no matter how good it looks on paper.
> Good on you for putting dealer support ahead of $$, too!


Looks like I can get to the dealer tomorrow morning for an inspection.  

I'm going to be looking for refinements to make sure that this tractor is worthy of consideration.  I did look at the Kioti tractors several years ago and found them lacking.  Just being objective, but no way they WERE as smooth to operate as a Kubota.  Now I also think that Kubota is the best there is so it sets a high standard by which to compare.  Engine noise on the Daedong engine was 'rougher' sounding, castings of the iron were cruder, hydraulics were not as responsive or smooth.  Now I don't expect the iron casting to have improved if the model has not changed, but I am going to be looking for smoother operation than before and a more consistent sound.  

And in all fairness to Daedong's engine, I don't think my New Holland engine is as smooth as the Kubota either.  In fact the only engines I've found that come close are Yanmar engines.  Clearly these are just my opinions.

So when I do my comparison it will be more of a relative improvement that I am looking for.  Is it 'good enough' compared to a Kubota, or is it just 'better than it used to be?'  If it is 'good enough' today then I will be facing a decision in the next day or two.  If it is just better than it used to be then I will probably dismiss it without further consideration.  

Korea has made great quality improvements in automotives over the past 5 years, have they done the same with tractors?


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## rback33

Last I knew, Bobcat used a Rhino made loader and Kioti was bringing one in from Korea. IIRC the Korean loader had higher capacities, but it has been several years since I spec'd them out and I think Rhino has made some changes...


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## Melensdad

Not sure on the LOADER specs between the Kioti and the Bobcat, I didn't compare the two, I only looked up the loader spec from Bobcat so if they are somewhat different then I wouldn't know it.  

What I do know is the Bobcat dealer is willing to DEAL based on two phone calls this morning.  I'm guessing that tractor sales are REALLY S_L_O_W for them this summer.  My Kubota dealer said this April was a record breaker for him, setting new sales records, but he said the summer sales have slowed down.


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## Melensdad

Well the loaders are different between the Kioti and the Bobcat.  

Bobcat has slightly lower breakout force but slightly more total lift capacity.


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## Erik

when I was shopping 2 years ago after my other tractor was stolen, I seriously considered the Kioti DK35.  I also looked at Kubota but couldn't afford the extra $9k on the sticker.
My local Bobcat dealer didn't want to be bothered with bobcat sales or service and basically told me he wouldn't sell one - so I obliged him and went elsewhere.
The Kioti dealer I went to tried to smooth talk and talk over me and I left his office with a bad taste in my mouth. (I did get to test drive a DK40, though)
The Mahindra dealer 2 blocks away was a different story, and I ended up buying a 3510 from him almost sight unseen. (he had a 4110 on the lot, so I had a clue what I was getting - he also had a good plug from Rback33, so I knew who to kick if things went bad...)
My Mahindra was actually made for them by TYM, another Korean maker.  The one I had stolen was made by Kukje, the same people who used to make Branson tractors.
The 3510 has some clatter when first fired up, but warms up pretty quick and then it quiets down a lot.  I'm pretty happy with it and the level of fit and finish I got for my $$.


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## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

I suspect Bob is looking for the VW of tractors, not unlike what he drives.


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## loboloco

He could always go buy an old Allis or A Moline.  Work him to death and not slow down.


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## Melensdad

Erik, our local Mahindra dealer is long gone.  It was a lawn & garden guy.  According to the Mahindra website there are no dealers near me.  

Branson is sold by the New Holland dealer and I go to church with one of the senior mechanics for that dealership, his daughter went to school with mine.  He told me don't buy a Branson.  

I'm not looking for the cheapest tractor, I'm looking for the tractor that best fits my work and has the features that I desire.  The Bobcat ct235 is, admittedly, on the large side of the spectrum but the loader and the 3pt offer capacity that steps me up over the other offerings.  My biggest concern is that I'm going to trade "up" and spend a good deal of money but really not speed up my work with the Kubota because it doesn't offer enough capacity over what I already have.  The Cub/Yanmar offers loader capacity which is good but it actually has LOWER capacity on the 3pt hitch, which I really don't want to give up.  

So that brings me up in physical size to the Bobcat, the L3400 Kubota or to the NH 2030 or 2035.  The L3400 has far fewer features/creature comforts than the NH or the Bobcat.  So that puts the L3400 on the bottom of my list, even if it has the best engine.

I expect the Bobcat will have the roughest running engine.  Looks like a demo will be delivered to the house on Thursday???  The NH doesn't have the smoothest running engines in the world, but they have loads of nice features and great ergonomics _(I think the best in the industry, along with Deere)._  The Deere dealer is disappointing me with his lack of inventory, etc. so it is really hard for me to do anything more than order one sight unseen and I won't do that!

I am expecting the Bobcat to come in with a 'good' price, perhaps so good that I can't resist.  I am expecting the NH dealer to come in with a price that is at least $4000 higher than the Bobcat, maybe more.  The question is, is it worth the added cost?  And that could go a few different ways.  First the NH could just be dramatically superior because it is so good?  Or the NH could be better only because the Bobcat sucks?  Or the Bobcat could just be a really good value and surprise me?  Honestly I think I have the bar set low enough with the Bobcat based on my prior view of Kioti that I hope I am pleasantly surprised by improvements.

Again, I'm not expecting the engine to be as smooth as a Kubota.  I'm not expecting the HST to run as smooth as my NH.  But if it is "good enough" then it might be the best overall value.  On the other hand, I may just say 'nope' and run back to NH.  

But the more I consider all this the less I am impressed with the Cub/Yanmar.  Not that it is bad, it certainly is low priced.  It just is very basic and it lacks modern hydraulics. . . which is a shame because physically its a great size.

One other thing that is very clear is that the little NH TC24d really stacks up well in features and performance to far larger tractors!!!  This shopping is really reinforcing the fact that I made the right choice the first time and that NH makes some awesome machines.


----------



## BigAl RIP

As far as Kioti goes??? I have a 2005 DK45 with all the bells and whistles . I love it and have done things way beyond its intended use . I guess what I am saying is , I would buy another one in a heartbeat . 
 Bob, buy whatever works for you . I have owned JD , Kubota, Kioti  and a few others . Each one had its pluses and minuses . Kioti came out on top across the board .......Thats why I own one . I only have 538 hours on mine , but they are hard hours . Know your limits and you will be fine .


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## Melensdad

Allen, as I said, right now my biggest gripe with Kioti is the dealer network in this area.  I'm not really thrilled about the concept of buying a diesel tractor from a lawnmower shop or a lawn and garden type dealer.  I want real diesel mechanics at my dealer as well as experts in hydraulic repairs.  

I could honestly care less if the guy can adjust a butterfly valve on a carb in an old Briggs & Stratton powered lawn mower.  To my mind that is the biggest fault with the brand in my market, other markets may be different.  Montana did the same thing here, the Montana dealer had tractors sitting next to used push mowers and the guy was/is great at lawnmower repair. . . diesel, not so much.  Mahindra set up shop at a garden center, buy a tray of flowers, get a diesel tractor?  Again, not my idea of building confidence.  Montana is no longer in this market at all.  Mahindra also has no local dealership.  So those are orphan brands today.  

The Bobcat_ (made by Daedong) _may cost more than the Kioti, but its sold and backed up by a solid dealership, I'll pay extra for the Bobcat if I like when I test it, but won't by the Kioti from a lawn & garden dealership.  The fact that I am considering a Korean tractor brand today shows that I have evolved into a thinking human


----------



## Melensdad

Is a New Holland 2035 worth roughly $5500 more than a Bobcat ct235, both with FEL and similar features.


----------



## Melensdad

Melensdad said:


> Is a New Holland 2035 worth roughly $5500 more than a Bobcat ct235, both with FEL and similar features.



Nobody even wants to comment on this?

OK here is what I see, the M$RP for the Bobcat ct235 WITH FEL/options is just about $22,800.  The M$RP for the loader I spec'd out is $4700 and is included in that $22,800 price.  But for the NH 2035 the tractor alone seems to be pricing out just over $21,000.

The above is not factoring in any discounts, rebates, trade in offers, etc.  

Honestly, even if the Bobcat is crude in comparison, I will have a hard time justifying the price difference.  As it sits, a Bobcat should be brought out to my house tomorrow for an evaluation. . . hopefully that will be confirmed today and I can play tomorrow.


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## Erik

$5500 is a big chunk to swallow - in my financial situation, it would be the deciding factor at this point, but test driving the 235 is a good plan - if it doesn't fit you, then it won't be orth the savings.


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## rback33

Sorry Bob. slow coming in today... I agree with Erik.. I would have a REALLY hard time swallowing that price difference.. I would take a spin on the Bobcat and see what you think. I am sure that will tell you every thing you need to know.


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## Dargo

What kind of watch do you wear?


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## Melensdad

Dargo said:


> What kind of watch do you wear?



OK, got me on that one.

While I do have a couple cheap watches, a daily wear watch that is 'expensive' is often on my wrist.  But I don't necessarily consider an expensive watch the equivalent to an expensive machine.  An expensive watch is sometimes justified by gold content, hand cut gears, enduring craftsmanship, etc.  It still just tells time.  Now that said, I will spend money on a Breitling, RGM or Piaget, but not on a Rolex.  Two machines that do the same job may not be equal, but may be similar enough that there is no need to spend the extra money, is the NH a Rolex or is it an RGM?  Both can cost the same but one, to me, imparts real value and craftsmanship while the other, to the public, imparts status.  I'm not about showing others what I have or don't have.  To me the finest watches are often those that very few people know.


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## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

If I was a salesman then I could tell a lot about the person by the type of watch they were wearing.

A fancy watch may indicate that you:

A. Have lots of money
B. Care about quality
C. Want to appear to have lots of money


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## Dargo

Melensdad said:


> OK, got me on that one.
> 
> While I do have a couple cheap watches, a daily wear watch that is 'expensive' is often on my wrist.  But I don't necessarily consider an expensive watch the equivalent to an expensive machine.  An expensive watch is sometimes justified by gold content, hand cut gears, enduring craftsmanship, etc.  It still just tells time.  Now that said, I will spend money on a Breitling, RGM or Piaget, but not on a Rolex.  Two machines that do the same job may not be equal, but may be similar enough that there is no need to spend the extra money, is the NH a Rolex or is it an RGM?  Both can cost the same but one, to me, imparts real value and craftsmanship while the other, to the public, imparts status.  I'm not about showing others what I have or don't have.  To me the finest watches are often those that very few people know.



However, a wristwatch is still, in general, but not always, a depreciating asset.  Or, it is an asset you would plan on passing along to a family member or friend.  I doubt you'll keep this potential new tractor until you die.  You may, but I doubt it.  Like me, when you turn the key, you expect everything to work as intended.  Nothing will last forever.  Agreed?

I'm going to use my current JD 5525 tractor for an example.  Right now most prices for which similar tractors have sold, sold for about $4500 to $5000 *more* than I paid for my 5525 four years ago.  As you know, this is not by a long shot the first time I've experienced this with a tractor.  However, I'm not in the mood to sell it because it still fits my needs, is the right size and works flawlessly.  If you recall, I also considered a far less expensive tractor (no, not a Kioti in this example!) that had similar specs but was far less money.  Right now, if I had purchased that other tractor, it would be worth about 47% of my purchase price.  At first blush, someone would say that I paid far more for my JD tractor.  Did I really?

Back to your watches.  I'm wearing a relatively inexpensive Seiko right now.  It's okay, but for all intents and purposes, it's a 'throw away' watch.  What is a 5 year old used Seiko watch worth now?  About $250 less than I paid for it 5 years ago; about nothing.  On one of my first cruises to St. Thomas USVI, I bought a Tag.  OMG!!!  I bought it based on the advice of a friend who likely has more in his watch collection than I have in my home.  With the deal I got on the watch, the estimated value of it in it's current condition is about the same as what I paid for it over 10 years ago.  Which watch has cost me more?

I'm simply applying the same concept to tractors.  With one you have a long track record and a known high resale value with very good reliability.  With the other, most of those items are an unknown.  Quality has been improving.  Fit and finish has been improving.  However, what about resale?  At some point you will no longer own that tractor.  Will the resale be the same?

At auto dealerships there are still some old fellas who come in and want a pickup with NO options; not even A/C in our area.  They don't want to pay for that option.  However, they trade about every 5 years or so and I can show them where the deduct for no A/C is about double what A/C would have cost them in the first place.  Would they really save money by passing on A/C?  Professor Rosenberg would be asking you to look beneath the surface, now wouldn't he.  What would James Joyce be if you only viewed his writings on the surface?

I'm simply suggesting you look at all known factors, unknown factors, your particular needs, and then weigh in on what tractor would really suit you the best over the time frame which you would own it.


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## Dargo

PBinWA said:


> If I was a salesman then I could tell a lot about the person by the type of watch they were wearing.
> 
> A fancy watch may indicate that you:
> 
> A. Have lots of money
> B. Care about quality
> C. Want to appear to have lots of money



I don't wear my 'fancy' Seiko if I'm working outside.  I wear my $9.95 Timex Ironman digital.  That includes anytime I'm going anywhere and I may be doing work outdoors.  What does that tell you about me?


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## Kwiens

Tactors = watches...........

What did I miss here? 

FWIW, I wear a $16 watch from Target.......when I wear a watch; my cell phone/Blackberry can tell time just fine.

Oh, and I have a small herd of John Deere tractors........

K


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## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Dargo said:


> I don't wear my 'fancy' Seiko if I'm working outside.  I wear my $9.95 Timex Ironman digital.  That includes anytime I'm going anywhere and I may be doing work outdoors.  What does that tell you about me?



Not as much as the guy with the fancy watch who just walked into the dealership.


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## Melensdad

FWIW, I consider a TAG to be a reasonably inexpensive watch.  It is one of the watches I would wear while tractoring, mucking about in the yard, etc.


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## Dargo

Melensdad said:


> FWIW, I consider a TAG to be a reasonably inexpensive watch.  It is one of the watches I would wear while tractoring, mucking about in the yard, etc.



Then you should see my point.


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## Melensdad

Dargo said:


> Then you should see my point.



No actually I don't, at least not with a TAG-Heuer.  While they are good machine made watches, they run the price gamut from roughly $100 to Many Thousands of Dollars and mostly are fashion accessories.  The brand is promoted more as a stylish watch than as a technically excellent watch.  Flash for the wrist as opposed to a complicated timepiece of extraordinary craftsmanship.  That is my main gripe with Rolex, it is nothing more than expensive jewelry to adorn the wrist.

I don't see either of these tractors as having extraordinary craftsmanship.  While this particular tractor search of mine has revealed that my past choice of New Holland was an excellent choice that is still holding up well against larger and more powerful competitors, it was also priced competitively when I purchased it.  Not the cheapest tractor in the market, but clearly not at the massive price disadvantage that is shown in this current bit of tractor shopping.  

This time we have a roughly 20% price spread between these two brands when compared with similar options.  My question is, is one actually worth 20% more than the other?  Brand value may favor the New Holland.  Craftsmanship may favor the New Holland.  Even resale/trade-in value may favor the New Holland.  But to the tune of 20%?


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## Big Dog

Melensdad said:


> This time we have a roughly 20% price spread between these two brands when compared with similar options.  My question is, is one actually worth 20% more than the other?  Brand value may favor the New Holland.  Craftsmanship may favor the New Holland.  Even resale/trade-in value may favor the New Holland.  But to the tune of 20%?



No on all counts, IMO .............  This would be easy if there was trust in a dealer ............. . The Korean tractors are getting very popular because of quality and cost, even though they might not be as pretty as you like or of a rougher cast ........... come on Bob.

I have some issue with the close "dealer" issue. My only thought would be to have a competent dealer in case it needs worked on. IMO, it doesn't have to be around the corner.

How many times has your tractors been back to the dealer? Mine has never been back since I brought it home. So what if it takes a hour or 2 to get it to him. Find any brand dealer with favorable rep of the brand you want and buy the tractor. No matter what you decide and how much you scrutinize, the chances of being happy are as much as being sad.


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## Melensdad

Local dealer is only important if they are quality dealers.  My local dealers are long established high quality dealers, so I don't need to search out distant brands/dealers.

My tractor has been back twice that I can think of.  One time for a loader recall warranty fix, one time to have a rear remote valve installed.  However, having a local dealer is just as important for the times that I need to go there for misc small parts, fluids, implement purchases, etc.

But now I am really beginning to re-think this whole potential purchase.

To step up over the CAPACITY of what I have, I have to step up in size significantly.  My TC24d is heavy for its size, but I'm looking at going up to tractors that are substantially longer, wider and heavier and I don't know that I want to do that.  

To trade up to the Kubota or Cub/Yanmar really does not give me any significant advantage in capacity.

To trade up to a larger NH or Bobcat gives me a significant advantage in capacity but also a significant size increase and that would eliminate some of the uses for the tractor.

BTW, the Bobcat demo has been pushed off to TUESDAY of next week.  In between now and then I will go back to Kubota and NH and see if I even want to pursue this upgrade by double checking the sizes of these tractors.  When this quest started I wanted to upgrade to get capacity.  When I really studied the next step up in machine HP and size I found that the capacity was already in my machine and there is no significant reason to go up the next step.  That forces me to go up 2 steps and 2 steps in size gives me a real change in capacity but brings with it problems that caused me to choose my TC24d the last time I was shopping!!!


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## Big Dog

Melensdad said:


> Local dealer is only important if they are quality dealers.  My local dealers are long established high quality dealers, so I don't need to search out distant brands/dealers.
> 
> My tractor has been back twice that I can think of.  One time for a loader recall warranty fix, one time to have a rear remote valve installed.  However, having a local dealer is just as important for the times that I need to go there for misc small parts, fluids, implement purchases, etc.
> 
> But now I am really beginning to re-think this whole potential purchase.
> 
> To step up over the CAPACITY of what I have, I have to step up in size significantly.  My TC24d is heavy for its size, but I'm looking at going up to tractors that are substantially longer, wider and heavier and I don't know that I want to do that.
> 
> To trade up to the Kubota or Cub/Yanmar really does not give me any significant advantage in capacity.
> 
> To trade up to a larger NH or Bobcat gives me a significant advantage in capacity but also a significant size increase and that would eliminate some of the uses for the tractor.
> 
> BTW, the Bobcat demo has been pushed off to TUESDAY of next week.  In between now and then I will go back to Kubota and NH and see if I even want to pursue this upgrade by double checking the sizes of these tractors.  When this quest started I wanted to upgrade to get capacity.  When I really studied the next step up in machine HP and size I found that the capacity was already in my machine and there is no significant reason to go up the next step.  That forces me to go up 2 steps and 2 steps in size gives me a real change in capacity but brings with it problems that caused me to choose my TC24d the last time I was shopping!!!



Could you elaborate more on the "size" and the restrictions for "size". Are we talking specifically on weight, I assume so? I don't see a significant difference between a 66" wide tractor vs. 72" wide tractor. Are you doing R-4"s? Wheel base is a non-issue between the "3" sizes you refer IMO.


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## Melensdad

Less concern about weight, more concern about physical size.  

My gates are 60" wide, my tractor is 54" wide, gives me just enough room to get through.  My paths are also narrow, my turns are tight.  My property is sloped and some of my landscaping is set up to accomodate my tractor's ability to maneuver.  Going up in size to a tractor that is a foot+ wider, and foot and a half longer, with implements that will also be wider and longer simply may not fit in much of my work areas.  

Now it would be nice to work in the open areas, but much of my property is NOT open area.


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## Doc

Interesting thread Bob.  I don't fully understand your dilemma.   Since you already have a great smaller tractor why not go with a bigger one for the chores where you need the bigger capacity?  I've seen you post of moving your pool, so surely you can make your 5 ft gates wider to accommodate the larger tractor.  That would be a small job compared to moving a pool.

I doubt you remember but when I was tractor shopping I was looking at the Kubota 2410 and was drooling over the 2710 and 2910 (like the one you used to have).  When I was ready to pull the trigger on the 2910 dang if Kubota was not discontinuing the Grand L 3010 and I could get it for a few hundred dollars difference.  Lots more tractor for a few hundred dollars.   My dilemma at the time was I thought I could haul the 2910 on my current trailer and knew I could not haul the 3010 (it was to wide).  I went for the 3010 anyway and I am so glad I did.  With the extra capacity the extra size comes in handy.   I've done so much more with the 3010 than I ever imagined I'd do with the 2910.  I can still maneuver on my trails though some spots are a bit tight, and some spots I widened my trail for maneuverability with my tractor.  

So I was focusing on one issue that turned out to be a non issue since the dealer will pick up and deliver my tractor if a visit to the dealer is needed (only one so far).  Overall I lucked into the best tractor for my uses.  You might find you are doing the same thing on the size issue.  Gates can be made wider and to get a tractor that could do more for you it would be worth that effort.   

I remember folks on TBN saying no one ever complained about getting to big of a tractor, and I'll admit after I bought my 3010 I wondered if I had really screwed up and got to big.  Time has proved to me over and over again that I got the right tractor for me in the 3010.  I have a feeling that if you got the bigger footprint tractor that would prove to be the case for you also since you already have a small powerhouse sitting in your garage.


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## jwstewar

Bob, I think you are looking at this wrong. Don't get rid of the Blue Beast (and they are a beast for their size, as I have one too).

Just get the bigger tractor and have it when you need it and can use it and then have the NH when the other one won't fit or the Bobcat breaks down. You just need to go back to being a 2 (or 10) tractor guy.


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## Kwiens

Bob,

Look at this tractor purchase the same way you do your guns.  Each one has a purpose.  Buy a tractor to meet a need/want.  If it's too big then plan on renting a piece of equipment for the time the project requires.

If there's no statistical difference between your current tractor and a new purchase it doesn't make fiscal sense to buy.  Rent when you need the capacity.  It sounds like you're happy with your NH but are wanting to scratch an "itch".

Too bad a John Deere dealer isn't available.

What Doc and Jim said is soooooo true!

K


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## Dargo

Melensdad said:


> Less concern about weight, more concern about physical size.



Then, clearly, you need a small skid steer.  You do know they make them with 4 wheel steer so they don't tear up the lawn, don't you?  Skid steers are considerably stronger than tractors when it comes to FEL work.


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## Dargo

Melensdad said:


> No actually I don't, at least not with a TAG-Heuer.  While they are good machine made watches, they run the price gamut from roughly $100 to Many Thousands of Dollars and mostly are fashion accessories.



Ok, what part did you miss?   You do know that most criminals would cut your hand off to steal a TAG.  Yet, you consider such a 'knock around' watch.  The point is, will Bob ever be truly happy with a 2nd tier tractor??  The only difference in the watch analogy is that the TAG I bought has retained 100% of it's initial value; like most of the tractors I've purchased.  I don't know about you, but I've become accustomed to basically using my tractors free, since they have almost never lost value while I've owned them.  With that being the fact, how would paying less for another tractor, but losing half of what I paid for it when I sell it, cost me less?


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## Snowtrac Nome

Bob i've been reading this how about this for an answer buy a kubota and make Big Al feel good because you have some thing the same color as his kristy.


----------



## Melensdad

I've got back to tractor shopping.

Here is what I have learned.  My little New Holland is a damn fine tractor.  It has lift capacities for the 3pt and the FEL that are superior to anything else in its class, and further it has capacities for those that are the equal -or near equal- of tractors the next frame size larger.

So since my little tractor is big on capacity, the only choice I really have is to go up 2 frame sizes.

I looked at several brands at our county fair.  Honestly the only 2 left in consideration are the Bobcat ct235 and the New Holland 2030 or 2035.  I'm leaning toward the Bobcat.  Both dealers are very strong, the New Holland dealer is closer to me but I expect both to be equal in terms of parts/service so that is a toss up.

3pt Lift Capacity at 24" behind the ball eyes:

Bobcat ct235 = 1508#
New Holland 2030 = 1635#
Weight of tractor:

Bobcat ct235 = 3056#
New Holland 2030 = 2605#

FEL capacity:  BREAKOUT FORCE @ pivot pins

Bobcat ct235 = est. 2500#
New Holland 2030 = 2700#
FEL capacity:  Capacity at full height @ 500mm forward of pins.

Bobcat ct235 = 1225#
New Holland 2030 = 1183#
PTO Horsepower:

Bobcat ct235 = 26.5
New Holland 2030 = 24.5 (_28.9 for the 2035_)
Specs are pretty close, with the obvious edge going to to the New Holland.  The New Holland is also slightly more compact in most every way.  However, the price of the New Holland is roughly $5000 more than the Bobcat.

So I come back to the questions I had before and ask is 100# of extra lift capacity on the 3pt worth $5000 more out of my pocket for the NEW HOLLAND when the FEL simultaneously has less capacity?  The cost difference is partially due to incentives currently being offered by Bobcat, no such incentives were available from NH.   I cannot justify the cost difference, even if the resale value of the NH would be higher.


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## rback33

No.


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## Melensdad

rback33 said:


> No.



Any idea who makes the loader for Bobcat?  I know its not a Korean import, its got different specs and claimed to be made in the USA.


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## Cowboy

Melensdad said:


> Any idea who makes the loader for Bobcat? I know its not a Korean import, its got different specs and claimed to be made in the USA.


Have you checked with Koyker ? Specs on tractors are just that IMO , just because they set limits dont mean it wont far exceed them of what they are capable of without doing any harm . Just my opinion though . 

I guess it depends on if you need to move a 1500 hundred lb rock or a 1600 hundred pound rock & how often you need the extra capacity . The extra 100 or so lbs capacity can make it worth the extra money in daily use situations , IMO 

 Link to Koyker http://www.koykermfg.com/index.php/products/loaders/


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## Melensdad

Dealer just hauled away the Bobcat ct235 after my demo.

First off I am impressed with the value of this machine.  Great price for a very capable machine.  There were lots of easy to reach dipsticks and filler ports that did not require a contortionist to find or access.  The loader control was in exactly the right spot, most of the controls were in good locations, the steering tilted and adjusted within a wide range, the suspension seat was a WONDERFUL feature... just like Charmin, it was soft but got the job done   Probably best tractor seat I've ever had the pleasure of sitting in, it was apparently adapted to this tractor from some of the commercial Bobcat equipment.  Levers for PTO, 3pt, etc were in good, but perhaps not perfect locations.  I'd have preferred them moved forward a few inches but that could be just nitpicking.  The loader is not the same loader as the Kioti loader, not sure who makes it, but apparently its being redesigned.  Perhaps waiting until the next generation would probably eliminate the current loader incentive.  I gathered that the supplier was having trouble getting them loaders and that is the reason they are changing, so a change is not performance based.

Secondly I am critical of several points, and some of them may be deal breakers.  There is a hydraulic filter that sticks down under the tractor that is exposed and vulnerable to be knocked off.  Is it likely it would be knocked off?  Probably not on my property, but if I was a commercial buyer I would seriously consider that as a problem.  The hydraulic quick connectors are under the right side of the loader arm, parallel to the ground, at the bottom of the framework and MIGHT be vulnerable to being knocked apart, hit, etc by branches, debris, etc.  I think working in the woods could be an issue with this tractor if it was used for clearing scrub, etc.  

One thing that I really did not like, seriously think is a design flaw, is the lever to engage the 4wd.  It is 1" above the floor in front of the left foot.  You have to take your eyes off your forward travel and reach WAY DOWN to engage the 4wd.  That is a problem.  I found it very very awkward.  Another problem with this location is the proximity to the differential lock.  Its located right next to the differential lock at essentially the same elevation.  I honestly think that it would be pretty easy, when trying to engage the differential lock, to accidently put your foot on the 4wd lever and disengage the 4wd when you actually needed the added traction afforded by the differential lock.

Now those bad things aside, this was a comfortable tractor to run.  Even if the ergonomics are "last generation" compared to the New Holland 2030/2035, the tractor was still powerful, capable, comfortable and clearly will do what I want done.  The engine ran as smooth as the engine on the New Hollands and was actually quieter than the engine on my TC24d.

Overall I'm favorably impressed.  I'd say the odds of buying this tractor are 60% in favor, 40% opposed.


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## rback33

Melensdad said:


> Any idea who makes the loader for Bobcat?  I know its not a Korean import, its got different specs and claimed to be made in the USA.




Sorry for the delay. It's a rhino loader. You knew I would know that answer.


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## Melensdad

rback33 said:


> Sorry for the delay. It's a rhino loader. You knew I would know that answer.



Apparently it is for now, but not for long.  

I was told today that a loader company in North Dakota will probably be the new supplier building loaders for Bobcat.


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## Cowboy

Melensdad said:


> Apparently it is for now, but not for long.
> 
> I was told today that a loader company in North Dakota will probably be the new supplier building loaders for Bobcat.


 

Are you sure it isn,t Koyker in S Dakota ? Just curious .


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## Melensdad

I'm not sure, but what I was told was that its a firm located very near the Bobcat headquarters in N.D.   It is possible I misunderstood.  


BTW, it is interesting that there are quite of few minor differences between the Bobcat and the Kioti tractors.  The differential lock pedals are different, the throttle controls are completely different, there are minor differences in the pedals and controls and several different features.


----------



## Melensdad

New Holland 2035 w/loader $27,135
Bobcat CT235 w/loader $21,921

Those are list prices of the two tractors I'm looking at buying. The New Holland is laid out much better in terms of ergonomics, the Bobcat, by comparison appears to be a much older design. Both will provide the same functions, do the same jobs. The New Holland is easier to operate and overall I believe will be the more comfortable machine to operate for long hours.

But here is the rub, that Bobcat price actually comes down another couple thousand dollars below the list price because of the free loader. New Holland is offering free financing, but I'm not planning to finance.

If I was a commercial buyer who owned a landscaping company or any sort of operation where seat time on the tractor would be 15+ hours a week then I'd buy the New Holland. Honestly I think that layout and placement of the controls of the New Holland is superior enough that for a user who requires a lot of seat time, the New Holland will actually be faster to operate and would save a commercial user time, which in the long run, would save money.

However, as a homeowner, I can't justify the huge price difference.

There is a price difference between the two on list prices, and both dealers will deal down.  So the 'spread' pretty much remains the same.  Then there are incentives offered by the manufacturers, and that is where Bobcat brings over $3000 to the table that NH doesn't.  So in the end the after haggle price difference is in the $8K range, but the NH dealer is tying to find some money so that may erode back down to something more reasonable???

I'll openly admit that NH is the better designed tractor for doing a lot of work.  There is no question in my mind about that fact.  NH is the better tractor if you live in the seat of the tractor and need to make it do what you want.  The controls fall perfectly under your hands, they are color coded, some are even shaped differently so you can tell just by feel what you are grabbing, no need to even look down at the controls.  For speed of work, ease of working, ergonomics on the NH are vastly superior.  I get all that.

But I don't live in my tractor seat.  And that is a whole lot of money to talk about.

I have really come to appreciate my little New Holland, it has PROVED TO ME that is really was a very wise choice the last time around when I moved to a smaller tractor.  I know that because this search for a larger machine has required me to really find a machine that would offer real advantages and most of the larger machines only offered very marginal, if any, improvements in capacity.  Some actually had less capacity despite being on larger frames and with more horsepower.  Now I need to move back to a bigger tractor.

So here I sit, knowing darn well that the New Holland is really the better tractor.  I have a prime example of that sitting on my front lawn right now in my current New Holland.  This is NOT a 'brand loyalty' thing because I'm the last guy in the world to be loyal to a brand.  I'm loyal to quality and specs.  

And so I look at the Bobcat and I see some excellent specs, specs that, by anyone's measure are a statistical dead heat with the NH 2030 and 2035 specs.  The engine sounds good, the loader control valve was a bit quick to jerk up the bucket but that was probably because I was unused to it and it would likely mellow under my hand with practice.  3pt was smooth and powerful in lifting.  Mechanically it had lots of nice features that are homeowner friendly (easy to get to filters, fill points, dipsticks).  I didn't like that I had to lift the loader arms, raise the hood, and flip down a side panel to clean the radiator filter screen.  But most things were easy to access.  The controls are not in the right place, they are just a bit too far back, even with the seat all the way to the rear, the control levers were a bit too far back.  The fit and finish of the Bobcat was not as nice as the New Holland, the Cub Yanmar or the Kubotas that I looked at but it was pretty darn good and better than anything that was on the market 5 or 6 years ago.  So every quality tractor brand has improved in that regard.  The Bobcat lacks some detail points that NH excels upon, but those are really more cosmetic than anything else so they clearly are not disqualifiering points.  

And I guess that is my problem, I see a tractor that is "darn good" and clearly it is "more than good enough" but it is not "as good" as the other brands in many little ways.  But it is a whole lot cheaper, especially with current incentives, and its a pretty nice machine as it is.  So I am leaning toward buying it.

Not sure if I can get him to throw in a free hat.


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## rback33

If they are going to a ND loader manufacturer, then that would have to be Buhler in Fargo... which could answer some questions for me...


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