# Astro van cat conversion



## Snowy Rivers

Hi all.

My name is Snowy and I'm a retired machinist, welder, fabricator, field service engineer turned truck driver.

I played with Snowmobiles years ago and on occasion drove the clubs Thiokol groomers.

I always wanted to own a Thiokol Spryte, but never seemed to have time to gitterdone.

Well, after retiring from trucking (Local heavy haul sand and gravel ) I have bounced around and have been bored to tears.

Recently while surfing the net I ran into some info on Snow cats and some of the mods that folks have done.

I decided that at 64 yo it was now or never if I was going to have a cat now was the time.

My days running the Groomer left a permanent impression of how few creature comforts were in the Thiokol Spryte. 

With the idea of comfort in mind I set out to do some snooping to see what had been done by others and what tickled my fancy.

Also there was the issue of COST $$$$$$$$$

The project must be affordable on my retirement $$$$

I found all sorts of Cats out there that had been modified, tweaked, tricked and on and on.

I wanted LOW COST, easy to find parts and something comfortable to drive when it was finished.

Decided to go with the Spryte 1200 series, or at least in that direction.

The finished rig needs to be no more than 102" wide MAX so I can take it down the road without being over legal width.

Now for creature comforts  ???????

We recently sold a GMC Safari van and purchased a Smart Car for every day stuff (real cheap to drive)

I loved the van as it had great forward visibility and was easy to get in and out of.

The Safari's are plentiful and can be had CHEAP 

So
Next I started a search for a used cat and a Safari van.

CRAIG'S LIST 

Placed some want ads and sat back to see what shakes out.

Only took a couple days and a pretty good looking 1992 Safari AWD became available.

A fellow called me and we made a super deal.

Great little van that runs out nice and a full tank of fuel for $250  (Not a misprint)

So

With the body issue taken care of the next hurdle is finding a cat.

After looking at a few used cats and the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ cost for them and most were in sad shape ??????????????????

It became real obvious that buying a used cat and tossing most of the thing on the scrap pile just to get the frame and such was just a bad idea.

I decided to build a custom frame to allow the use of the GM 4.3 V6 and the 4L60 tranny.

The few cats I looked at had cracked frames, cracked axles and were just a mess.

I also decided to build my own axles and instead of using the Torsion rubber device on the trailing arms, to build simple articulating trailing arms and add a small air bag to each one with positive up and down stops
.

This set up will alleviate the twisting on the axle and frame and the tendency to break things.

My search has turned to finding a rear diffy (An OC12 or a C4)

We shall see what shakes out.

I am no stranger to gear boxes so rebuilding the box is all in a days work.

I am looking for a good used diffy now.

With the find of the diffy the rest can take shape readily.

The plan is to mount the Safari body on a set of parallel rails on the main frame that will allow it to roll rearward far enough to fully access the engine for service/repair that would otherwise be a real pain through the hood or dog house access.

An access panel in the rear floor area of the body will allow access to the diffy for service of the steering cylinders and ?????


The plan is coming together slowly, but we are moving ahead.

The next item will be a set of the 3 foot Spryte tracks.

A rear diffy and tracks will get this beast off to the rodeo.

Looking forward to this build.

Gonna be a slow go me thinks.

I will be in and out and add what I can as it happens.

Snowy


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## Alaska Snow Cat

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Hi Snowy and welcome. Sounds like an ambitious project with some good ideas. You might look around for a 2100 Thiokol for the rear diff as those can be found fairly cheep. It would require narrowing the axels but you would get a hydraulic power assist too,
 A spryte would be best if it had a good diff and tracks as those are going to be the most expensive pieces of your project no matter how much fab work you do.


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## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Thanks for the advice.

Still looking and listening.


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## topwelder44

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

buy an all wheel drive van and bolt on a set of mattracks----ive put tracks on a lot of stuff ----ive talked about a van on tracks ----buy the van /buy the tracks/ and a set of wheel adapters----one day in the shop and hit the trails


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## Snowtrac Nome

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

I might could help you on tracks and diff I know of a good 0c 12 and a set of tracks with crappy rubber from a burned out sprite. I talked with the owner once in the past about salvage he was kind of wishy washy about it. I could try again this summer if you wish


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## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Don

See what you can stir up

Thanks
Snowy


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## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Welder

The mattracks are nice, but $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

My project is a low budget one.

The big tracks of the thiokol are far more appealing to me.

The rig will not be used other than on my acreage in good weather and on the roads in Snow times to get to the store.

I like the little yellow rig.


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## Snowtrac Nome

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*



Snowy Rivers said:


> Don
> 
> See what you can stir up
> 
> Thanks
> Snowy


wont be till next summer I will see what Tom Massey will take for it the grousers on the track look to be about 36 inches


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## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

36 inches is the magic number 

I want 3 foot tracks on the beast

I am interested in the gear box/axle and whats left of the tracks.

Thanks


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## PJL

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*





Sorta like this but nicer?  This one was spotted last winter just off I-90 east of Snoqualmie Pass.


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## nikos

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

*PJL*

Sorta like this but nicer?  This one was spotted last winter just off I-90 east of Snoqualmie Pass.


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## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Cool pix.
Thank you for posting.

I am going to use the entire Safari body from bumper to bumper

The mods will be to remove the front sub frame and rear springs/axles ect.

Fab up a new frame similar to the Spryte's factory frame, a tad stouter.

The Safari body will roll onto a pair of rails on the "cat frame" and fasten down for operation with the ability to roll back enough to gain access to the engine for service.


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## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

A question

Does anyone know the axle rating on the individual axles of the Spryte 1200 series.

Thanks


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## PJL

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

The shop manual which can be downloaded here says "Trailing arm type, load rating 2400 ca lbs".


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## Snowtrac Nome

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

if you are using torsion axles  use cast rubber axkes like sw trailer has don't use the press together ones loke northern hydraulics sells


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## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

I have been looking at Flexiride individual (Half axles) and building the frame with a cross member instead of a bolt in axle.

I can beef up the area that the Flexiride unit bolts on with a weld on doubler plate and bolt on the axle units.

The Flexiride units can be indexed 6 degrees at a time on the spline shaft.

Was going to use the 3500# unit on the forward axles and the 2000# units on 2 through 5

The front end can take a good whallop when dropping off a berm, plus the engine and such are over the front axle as well.

Thanks for the info.


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## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

My main concern is locating the OC12 C/L and the bogie spindle C/L by the original design, as well as setting the longitudinal locations by the print.

The rest of the frame, cross members and goodies can be modified to suit the need.

I want to fit the GM 4.3 V6 with the 4L60 tranny and the V6 is a tad wider than the old Ford I6, but there should be enough room.

May have to widen the tunnel a tad, but we shall see.


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## Alaska Snow Cat

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

You can buy new torsion axels and order them to you specific width. Trailer wheels and tires will probably be strong enough for your needs but by the time you buy all that plus the sprockets and tracks, these homemade projects start to get expensive. That is why I still think you would be money ahead to buy a Spryte/2100/Skidozer with a blown motor. There is a complete 2100 here in Alaska(which I understand in not feasible) for $3500. There was a Spryte project not to long ago in the states for about the same amount. It will be very hard to get all the undercarriage goodies for less.


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## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Alaska

Definitely a possibility on the 2100

I have snooped up a couple cats so far, with one being a badly wrecked Spryte 1200 series and a 2100.

Both were pretty sad and still the $$$$$$$$$ were way too much for what I would actually get from them when I get them torn down.


I really need a fairly good set of 3 foot Spryte tracks and the Diffy.

I been sitting here in the cold weather at my drawing table getting some basics sketched up on the frame and undercarriage, with the needs for the mods to get things to integrate with the Safari body the actual usable list of parts from an existing machine is slim at best.

Steel box tube to build the frame is relatively cheap (Used/surplus steel yard close by)

For $1000 I can get a real jump on things and not have a pile of debris to haul off to the scrap yard.

I have time to snoop and be choosy at this point.

I have lots of feelers out there too.

One thing to keep in mind.... So far I have a great body, engine and tranny for only $250 out of pocket.

I have a line on a pile of trailer wheels and tires and we are negotiating on them.

I love "wheelin and dealin" and we live in a location that has lots of goodies laying about.
Crags list always seems to produce whats needed. 
I am willing to travel some distance, but living close to Portland Ore, Seattle to the North and several metro areas to the south we have a good area to go "picking" in.

Last year my son in law wanted to do a crew cab on an Army Deuce and a half and repower with a V8 diesel.

We ended up with three 1953 M211 6x6 trucks to work with.
Sold what we don't want or need on Craigs list and came away with 1 running truck in stock trim and two others to build the crew cab custom and $0 out of pocket.

I think at last tally we were up about $200 and have all our goodies to work with.

But that's his project.
I just used my wheelin dealin know how to get what was needed to start with for Zip cost.

Oyut snooping we picked up several things we really did not need, but made $$$$$$$$$$$ on them to help offset the cost of what we did need.

We were looking for an auto tranny for the 6x6 and came across this huge Allison for CHEAP 
Dragged it home and turned it in a few months for big $$$$


The Franken Cat project will likely be similar type thing.
Buy a little, sell a little, keep a little.



Snowy


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## topwelder44

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

ok--been watching and reading ---its great that you want to build a cat---the very first thing you need to do is forget the word budget----ooooooops sorry I mean affordable ---I have built lots of things from the ground up--its very costly buying all the parts and pieces ---u state that you want to build frame up----it is a real pain in the ass fitting this and clearing that if you know what I mean---just to make it steer u will need to build frame add the rear end and set body to figure out where stuff goes and fits than pull body and fit motor set body fit all that crap including fuel tank in the frame somewhere near the drive shaft and than shoe horn a ex. system in there with a cat. and 02 sensor because your running tbi-----and btw trailer tires will work till you go for your first ride and a track guide takes out a side wall------just sayin ---lol----o ya did you see the track van for 12,500 that's a good deal----here is a small scale of what your building and it was tough clearing and hiding all internal workings and this is hydroststic which saved me room ----------and always remember---your tracks stop on the bottom


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## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Cool little "cooler kitty"

No TBI
Swap to carb intake and standard HEI ignition.
No cat can, just simple stuff.
Exhaust will likely be split and run down each side ????

Safari fuel tank is in a handy spot on the LH side.
Swap the high pressure pump for a non pump sender and inlet and run a simple electric pump to feed the carb.

I want this thing as simple as it can get.

Two wires to run the engine... Electric choke and HEI 12v
Obviously there are other wires like temp sender, oil pressure, fuel pump and such.

Just no way am I building things that require a computer to operate.

They are the first things that quit under the worst case conditions.

I been through some interesting projects.
Bought a HMMWV "Hummer" kit car thing a few years ago.

Body kit went on a Burb frame.

GAWD WHAT A PITA.

Came out fine though.

FAR more details than the cat project as the Hummer thing required everything in the body, including wiring and creature comforts.

Things like fitting a radiator became a nightmarish abortion.
Used a 6.2 gm diesel.

The 92 Safari has a non electronic tranny too. (great thing)

Will keep the body lighting, heating/AC systems as well as the power seats, windows etc.

I just had a call on 5 sets of trailer wheels tires for cheap.

I am patient.

Budget ???? wassssat.  ITS A TOY


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## Aaron Tucker

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

the astro spryte is a 1200b with the 3ft wide track that would be a powder monster . ive only seen a couple 1200b , if i was to go spryte that would be the way I would go . and oc 12 only


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## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Yup
THE OC12 box will handle pretty much any reasonable sized engine.

I have seen the 391 Ford V8 up front and a local fella has a 2100 with a 428 Ford in it.

My little 4.3 V6 is not gonna strain it much 

For my purposes the V6 is plenty of power.

Likely the most SNOW use is gonna be when when get 4-12 inches of slop that gets real slick and the steep grades into the ranch here can be nearly impossible without tossing iron on the 4x4

Several 10% grades with switchbacks in them.

When we do get a real snow the switchbacks blow full of fluff and even my  big 4x4 will not deal with it.

We have only 5 miles into town and can creep into the shopping center without having to traverse any main major highways.

Around here 4 inches of slick mushy snow will bring the city to a halt.

Too many young ones that never learned how to drive.

The watch too much TV with those SUV's plowing through deep drifts and they listen to all the hype about "Traction control, anti lock brakes" yada yada yada.

I hate those anti stop brake systems 

I learned back in the 50's and 60's about getting around in the snow.

Don't need the stinking magic electronics to get through some snow.

As I explained to one youngster a few days ago that had managed to land in a bar ditch... "Son, when the coefficient of friction between the tires and the road is limited at best, and MA GRAVITY discovers your skinny butt, your finished, and no magic box is gonna SAVIOR BACON"

Kid gave me the deer in the headlights look.  

My Franken Cat is gonna be simplicity at its best.

Looking at installing a block heater in the V6 while its on the dirt too.

Replace all the soft plugs.


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## undy

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

I'm curious why you chose a 4x4 version of the van?  Seems like it would be more straightforward to use a 2wd transmission into the OC12, if for no other reason than to save space.


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## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Good question....

And here we go with the answer.

When I decided to do this project I placed an Ad on Craig's List for a decent Astro or Safari van.

Took about a week and I get a call from a fella and he has a clean 1992 Safari AWD and wants it GONE.

We go  take a peek and its a nice rig.

We BS a bit, kick a tire or two and then get to the negotiating on the price.

He has a clear title and wants $250 cash for it.

Sweeeeeeeeeet.
Done deal.

The Tranny is no worries.
Will pop the T case off the back end of the tranny and stick it on the shelf for future ?????

The engine, subframe and tranny all come out in one chunk.

The engine cradle will be relocated to the new frame in the Franken cat.

The sub frame gets to go back into the body to support the fenders and provide a location for rollers and attaching points to allow the body to roll back far enough to fully access the engine without requiring a 6 armed spastic monkey to reach stuff.

I will freshen the 4L60 and while its apart I will swap in a longer 2x output shaft and tail housing.

Bottom line, the van was available CHEAP and runs great.

Never look a gift horse ya know 

I just wanted a clean fairly straight body to work with.
The beast has a decent interior that is not nasty moldy yucky.

All the doors including the side slider work fine as well.

All the glass is good too.

If it had been a 2x for the price, it would have been fine as well.

The beggars and choosy thing.


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## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Got a question for anyone who can answer.

On a Spryte 1200 series

What is the dimension from the center of rear most spindle (bogie, NOT THE OC12) to the center of the front axle wheel spindle ????


I have decided to use the Flexiride "Half axles" as they can be easily replaced as single units should it be needed.

Going to use 3500 lb fronts and as yet still vacillating between the 1400 and 2000 lb units on axles 2 through 5 

Got the details on the two track tensioners worked out pretty well.

Decided to go with a simple slide frame similar to the original but it will be more like an H with a tube welded across the front end (Like the way some folks print and A with straight sides and a hozizontal top)

A plate welded across the unit will provide the platform to bolt the Flexiride unit to.

The main cat frame will have some added structure to allow two tubes extending forward to slide the front axle/adjuster into. (Each side)

Decided to use a small hydraulic cylinder to adjust the unit.

A simple solution of pumping the cyl full of grease to tighten the track up.

A stock off the shelf cylinder about 2" diameter ??? with appropriate length to handle the needed adjustment.

The basics are coming into a much clearer picture now.

No doubt there will be changes in things as the project gets under way, but I want a fair working drawing with some decent dimensions to work with as things get started.

Trying to get available items all sorted out and sources nailed down as well. 

Spent yesterday trying to sort out the amount of chopping that's gonna be needed to get the front sub frame of the Van massaged to the point that the entire body can be rolled onto the cat frame and slide by the engine and then lock to the frame.

Looking like the Van grill may end up as an integral part of a fixed and extended radiator guard that is separate from the body.

The engine cradle will need to be removed from the subframe as will the front cross member that the bumper attaches to.

At this time my thought is that the body will be high enough and the angine location low enough that a pair of steel tubes can be welded between the two side rails of the original subframe aft of the engine to replace the structural rigidity lost when the engine cradle and front cross member are removed.

Once the body is in the normal operating location the front subframe and the area of the original rear spring hangers will bolt to the cat frame and the body will share structural integrity all the way.

At present the plan is to fab up a pair of tube sub assemblies that will fasten to the bodies existing rear spring hangers and these along with the front subframe will align on a level plane to allow 6 or 8 rollers to support the entire body on the cat frame with 4 anchor point that bolt the entire assembly together.

Farther out in the design parameters will be allowances for easy roll back of the body without interfering with electrical or steering brake control connections.  (READ THIS AS LONG PRESSURE HOSES AND ELECTRICAL CABLES THAT CAN MOVE AS THE BODY IS ROLLED BACK FOR SERVICE)

The plan is starting to look pretty sound, butttttttttt, as is normal with any design, there is usually a fly in the ointment somewhere that will pop up.


Am thinking on retaining the Vans fuel tank in it's factory location and just swapping the high pressure in tank pump out and installing a simple pickup with an external (Read this as easily accessed) electric fuel pump.

The factory tank is located on the drivers side aft of the drivers seat and is tucked up nicely under the body.  (Simple and paid for)

The fuel tank issue will possibly evolve/morph  into ?????

Simple is the key.

Considering an access hole in the aft deck right above the OC12 to allow any service of the unit to be done easily. (Steering cylinders, ????)

Beyond these ideas things start getting pretty gray


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## PJL

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=7394

Click on the link in the first post. He has the Thiokol 1200 manuals for download.  A wealth of information.


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## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Thanks

Already got those great manuals.

So far I have not found the info needed.

Likely the numbers I am looking for are strictly engineering items and do not apply to regular maintenance.

In general a mechanic or maintenance individual would care less about the distance between the front and rear axles.

Since I am fabricating a custom frame it is imperative to get those  dimensions correct so a set of standard tracks will fit the machine.

Again... Thank you for the reference info.


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## undy

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Snowy,

From having fabricated a tracked wheelchair using a given (power-buggy) track once, I'm not sure whether the dimension you are seeking is important.

If you use the axle center-to-center dimensions from a given snowcat, they will only work as intended if you also use similar diameter bogey wheels.  (I'm unsure what you're using for wheels.)

I used a common track, with a given pitch (distance between sprocket teeth, essentially).  I designed sprockets to fit that track.  I spaced the bogeys such that there was clearance between each plus room for debris, etc.  I ensured that the track adjustment distance (front bogey to 2nd bogey) exceeded 1/2 of the pitch - in fact is was probably twice the pitch.  But those tracks could not be separated anywhere to ease installation, so they needed the extra adjustment distance.

Space your bogey axles so as to accommodate whatever bogey wheels you are using.  Give enough adjustment room between the front two bogeys.  You can always shorten or lengthen the tracks depending on the length of the cat and the length of the tracks, just so long as the pitch is right at the drive sprocket.

Maybe others with more wisdom than I will chime in to say I'm wrong.  (I'm the first to admit that my advice is worth what you paid for it.)  But that's what my common sense tells me.


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## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Undy

10-4

I want to stick with a diffy from a Thiokol 1200 series and the same 3 foot tracks.

My aim is to duplicate the frame "with a custom touch" to accommodate the Safari body and then allow stock tracks to fit.

5.30 x 12 bogie tires


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## undy

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

If you're set on using the diff and tracks from a 1200, I'd be curious how closely a 1200 chassis might align with the van, and whether you couldn't simply modify a 1200 (or other) chassis to hold that van body a lot cheaper and easier than starting from scratch?  

To get the entire rear drive section, including the diff., axles and sprockets plus tracks, it may be cheaper to buy a complete "parts" cat that includes all of those parts in decent shape rather than to buy them separately.  

I'm thinking blown engine, abandoned project cat, etc.  Install your drive train.  Fab up some sliding body mounts, and finish the details. 

Unless it's just to enjoy the creative engineering process (hey, each to their own), there might be no big benefit to reinventing the snowcat wheel.  Plus it's always more expensive to buy a vehicle part by part and assemble it.  Now, if you just like to build stuff, I say go for it!


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## topwelder44

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

did you look on Minnesota outdoor sports specialties ----go on used---page 10


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## Snowtrac Nome

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

I can get you a m29 weasel differential to for your van project might work good weasels would do up to 30 mph which would allow your van cat to run circles around the krusty crowd who think they have the fastest cats on the snow.


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## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

I see the unit for sale or ??? on page 10


I have looked at several used cats (Thiokols) and every one had the usual cracked and broken frames, brackets and other damage.

Considering that most of the machine is going to wind up on the scrap pile after I get done stripping it down to the frame, I am still pretty dialed in on building a new frame that will be designed to work with the Safari body, V6 engine and 4L60 trans.

From my perspective new "Zero hour" materials cut, welded and built to fit will be far better than used heavily flexed and stressed materials.

The 1200 series frame is so simple, plus adapting the V6 will require the engine mounts be altered anyway.

My little shop has a 9x42 Bridgeport mill, Takasawa 16 inch lathe, Millermatic 250 wire feed welder. A plasma cutter, Jet band saw and the usual 3 rollaways full of hand tools.

AND A BIG HAMMER

Building the new frame will take a minimum amount of work and really not all that much $$$$

I can buy just what I need and toss very little.

I scared up the 5.30 x 12 tires and wheels from a distressed freight yard.

Lovely white spoke'd 5 hole wheels.
Looked to have been in a flood maybe... Very dirty and muddy, but on a pallet with shrink wrap still around them.

$100 for the pallet load.
Good application of hot sudsy water will make em look new.

Ended up with 12

The tires are not 10 ply, but for now we can use these and later replace the two fronts with the heavier tires and foam them.

The Flexiride axle units are on my list and will likely turn up in my pile cheap.

When patience is coupled with a knack for scrounging, anything is possible.


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## mkntrakes

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

So how much is a set of tracks and diff worth?


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## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

The Weasel axle can certainly be adapted to work.

The OC12 sprockets can be made to work with adapters if need be.

Hmmmmm.

 Interesting.


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## topwelder44

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

trailer tires will not work----been there done that----did you check with the minn.out doors scrap and see about maybe some axles and tires----I also have some packmaster 2100 recovered sprockets with your mill and some math you can re drill them to fit any rear end----or build adapters


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## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Whats the caveat with trailer tires ???


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## topwelder44

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

track guiles will go through side walls---when your tracks r on uneven ground----your track/ cleats/grosers  don't always stay flat on the ground----the only ones that did were the old tuckers with pontoons


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## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Gotcha.

I scored the stack of trailer tires/wheels, so will use them as a setup to get the machine up and running and then deal with better rubber as time rolls on.

The low cost for the stuff I got will not cause great worry at this time.

Looooong way to launch date at present.


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## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

The Tucker had an all together different set up.

Used to drive one of them suckers loooooong ago.

Snowmobile club had one that we groomed with.
I liked the Thiokol Spryte far better to drive.


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## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Sitting here watching the snow come down and going over the Safari electrical manual.

Came to the conclusion that retaining the steering column to keep the ignition key switch, the multi function switch (Dimmer, wiper and turn signals) and the shifter for the auto tranny.
The dash is the digital unit, so keeping things intact will facilitate an easy conversion.

Spoke with a fella this morning about re calibrating the Drac module (Drives the speedo) to reflect as close as possible the real time vehicle speed.

He told me he needed the tire size   ????
I sent him a piccy of the Astro cat and got him on the same page.

He says if we can pace the rig and note the actual speed vs what the speedo reads that he can mod the drac to get real close to actual speed.

Going to retain the factory fuel tank/ sender etc, but mod the pickup tube to allow a low pressure external electric pump that will work with the Carter carburetor.


Looking at some purpose designed brake line quick disconnects to allow the body to be rolled back for service as well as quick connects for the fuel, heater lines etc.

The ideas just keep flowing and I'm getting them jotted down on a build sheet to refer to later as time goes by.

Looking for a pair of original steering cylinders and levers, but may end up building the set up from scratch.

Will just remove the steering wheel and add a flange adapter to keep all the stuff in the column where it belongs.

Obviously the turn signals will not turn off after a turn  

Will be nice to be able to leave almost all the wiring and stuff from the body intact.

Decided that during the overhaul of the 4L60 that I will mod the box to delete the lockup converter.

This feature was designed for light cruise loads anyway and there is no light cruise in a cat... it's all uphill...

A heavier converter can be built that will offer better power/torque with less heat.

Not sure if the overdrive 4th gear will be of any real advantage, butttttttttttt ????

Gonna set up a disc type drive line brake to work off the stock brake pedal in the Safari.
That will make the driveability more user friendly than needing to haul back on both steering levers to make a normal stop.

Looking like we will need to get a custom shifter cable made to work with the set up due to the relocation of the engine and tranny.

Was thinking about the other engine systems and the power steering pump will not be needed, so an idler for the serp belt will be a must have.

Again thinking about engine stuff and gave though to the AC system, hmmmm AC IN A SNOW CAT 

May keep it for summer excursions in the dirt. 

And the snow is falling


----------



## topwelder44

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

just so you know you can use in tank fuel pump---go to jegs or summit and buy adj. fuel pressure reg. with return---works great----and it also always supplies cool fuel to carb---I did it on my 3500 hd after taking off junk tbi------your tranny and converter will be fine leaving it stock---leave lock up converter in and put a switch on it---and on my 3500 hd dually it has the 5 speed auto in it including lock up so I added a switch for 4th gear lock up and built a six speed tranny----I would leave the transfer case in it so that you will have low range if the all wheel drives had it-----and for your speedo that really is not imp.---you can adj. it with a good scan tool----or stick your gps to the dash----here is thunder that I did my tbi to carb and six speed tranny-----so I know it works


----------



## Snowtrac Nome

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

may not be able to do that with they astro some had all wheel drive with a viscous coupler others had the electronic clutching t-case the electronic case would likely work but the viscous would not work with out the front shaft being hooked up


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

I have used the regulators on rigs in the past.
This sucker is gonna have the tank is a real nasty spot to get it out (get pump out if it fails) that I want a regular external fuel pump mounted where it can be accessed real easy.

Not too much worries about the fuel getting overheated in a snow machine. 

The 700R4/4L60 converters are very small inside and removing the lockup clutch makes room for a bigger turbine and pump and stator assembly.

With top notch welded blades it will give a lot more output than stock with far less heat being churned out.

The lockup in this application is pretty much worthless.

I am not even real sure how much good the overdrive will do.
Possibly on level hard/packed snow it will give a better top speed, but I will be extremely happy if the beast can muster 30 mph and keep the tracks on.

The transfer case on the Astro/Safari vans is an all wheel drive single speed unit and must have the front shaft connected or the viscous coupler will fail real quick.

I promised the T case, front axle and rear axle to my kid for his GMC 5 window project.

With the gearing these cat rear drives have and the 3.06:1 1st gear in the 4L60 there shouldn't be an issue with low gears for crawling around.

The 4l60 has 3.06, 1.63, 1.00 and .70 for ratios

This spread should be sweet.

A good "Dash 2" shift kit will make the gear changes quite firm and keep the gear box alive even under some tough romping.

I am not even a fan of the 700R4/4L60 tranny, and have ripped up several in my time.

Butttttttttttt.
With a handful of good after market parts they can live.

The older Sprytes had the little C4 Ford auto in them and they are a very tiny box.

I just want to think through the possible failure points and fix them before they break ya know.
Also want to keep service items in places that can be repaired easily out in the bush and not require a warm shop and a ton of tools.

One item in point is the fuel pump.

Locate it so it can be easily accessed from the dog house or ??? without needing to crawl under the cat.
Even if we need to chop an access port in the floor and put a little cover on it.

I have been stuck out in the bush several time with stuff that was a nightmare to fix.

Always carry a spare HEI cap with coil, rotor and a module.
Spare fuel pump and filter.

A little small carter 4 bbl carb is nearly bomb proof, so little worries.

A spare serp drive belt never hurts and a gallon of green juice.

There is always something that can grab ya by the butt, but ya can't carry a new rig with ya.

Other items that will get replaced will be the starter and the ignition switch.
At 25 years old and 125k on the clock the starter has seen many duty cycles as has the ignition switch, both of which are not handy to swap out under nasty weather conditions.

All in good time.

The engine is basically low miles with only 125k so not too much worries.
Will steam clean the engine and replace the soft plugs, add a block heater.

The top valve covers will get new gaskets or silicone, whichever they take.
Maybe a rear main seal if need be while the tranny is on the bench getting a complete rebuild.

Been a few years since I pawed through a 700R/4l60 but I have the special tools needed to install the clutch seals and the drivers to R&R the bushings.

Will see if the planets are good and reuse, but doubtful I will upgrade unless they show issues.

The V6 is not that tough on trannies, so will just play it as it comes along.

My goal is dependability, and easy access to fix little issues that are usually stuff that's buried in a real beotch of a place to get at.

This thing will be mostly a toy, but when I need it, I expect it to work 110% without issue.

I have helped fix broken stuff in the snow before, and I don't like it.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*



Snowtrac Nome said:


> may not be able to do that with they astro some had all wheel drive with a viscous coupler others had the electronic clutching t-case the electronic case would likely work but the viscous would not work with out the front shaft being hooked up





Yesssss.
Plus that case just adds weight I don't need or want.

While the 4L60 is on the bench I will stuff in a 2wd tail shaft and tail housing.

I have to tear it clear down anyway, so no biggy to swap the shafts.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Question time. ?????

What is the bore diameter of the master steering cylinders used with the C4 and OC12  DIFFIES

I need to start designing the steering level/master cylinder brackets, levers and such to fit in the cockpit of the Franken cat.

Getting a standard master cylinder of a single piston design should be a snap and using a standard off the shelf part will make it even better.

The controls need to be offset to the left enough to allow easy access to the existing brake pedal by the operator.

Looks at present like the right side lever will need a distinct curvature to facilitate comfort for the operators right leg while using the service brake pedal.

Piston or bore size would be sweet.

Thanks.


----------



## topwelder44

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

just so you know-----if you need to stop you pull both turning brakes back at the same time----so scrap the break pedal------------and iam sure you have already noticed but if you go to cats for sale section----ad that says three cats for sale----there is rolled up tracks in the back round


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Yessss
Fully understand the operation of the Thiokol
Ran one for several seasons

I want the auxiliary brake in the original place to avert a novice driver (Spouse) from panicking and crashing.

An easy addition to add a drive line disc brake and operate it off the original brake pedal.

The auto tranny has the parking lock and that will be fine for most situations except maybe a  really steep grade.

May go with a drum type brake and use the cable... ???? Not sure as yet

I want this machine to be as intuitive as possible to drive.
The gear selector, ignition key switch, brake pedal, wiper control, service lighting, turn signals etc will all be in the original locations and function as normal.

Also the brake pedal has its factory light switch that works fine installed.

All this stuff cost $$$$$ to replace and redesign/relocate and it all functions well.

The only real difference from driving the Van will be the use of the steering joy sticks instead of the steering wheel.

Simple and cost effective plan me thinks.

If it works don't fix it

Also all repair parts for anything that is connected with the Safari is available at any NAPA, Auto zone or ???? parts house.

The plan is to use as much standard off the shelf parts as possible when and where they are added, changed or otherwise


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*



topwelder44 said:


> just so you know you can use in tank fuel pump---go to jegs or summit and buy adj. fuel pressure reg. with return---works great----and it also always supplies cool fuel to carb---I did it on my 3500 hd after taking off junk tbi------your tranny and converter will be fine leaving it stock---leave lock up converter in and put a switch on it---and on my 3500 hd dually it has the 5 speed auto in it including lock up so I added a switch for 4th gear lock up and built a six speed tranny----I would leave the transfer case in it so that you will have low range if the all wheel drives had it-----and for your speedo that really is not imp.---you can adj. it with a good scan tool----or stick your gps to the dash----here is thunder that I did my tbi to carb and six speed tranny-----so I know it works



Welder

I am curious, what trans do you have in the 3500 truck ???


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Yesterday evening the snow started falling and by this morning we have picked up nearly a foot overnight.

We are 25 miles south of Portland and this morning the PDX METRO area is a mess.

Anyway...
Yesterday I scared up a pair of the Ford E100 brake master cylinders that seem to have been quite popular on the Thiokol cats.

These have the pivot on the end.

As soon as they arrive I can start  working out the details on the lever pivots and machine a set as well as fabricate the floor bracket and the levers themselves.

Decided to make the levers themselves separate from the pivot clevis so the levers can be removed to allow any under dash service to be done without a serious fight.

Getting the steering wheel out of the way and the tilt column fully up and out of the way will allow a "sit in" and some seat of the pants "touchy feely" design work to build the levers so they are comfortable to use.

Gonna get some of these little snively items done and ready to go.

Even though its a long way until we will need them.

As time and materials become available things can move in many directions.


----------



## topwelder44

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

4l80e-----------and remember the shift sol. work on ground-----so pulling a load I can go 1/2/3 lockup----than 1/2/3/4 lockup---the 1/2/3 lock up gives me that in between gear    works great----and with the switches I can go down r blvd. in lock up with just an idle none of the up shift down shift crap------and no---- it doesn't stall at lights if you leave switches on


----------



## topwelder44

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

the other thing u need to check out is how your tranny shifts----if you take tbi off and use a different dist. it might not shift----none of my trucks use at small of a tranny----I think if you have a kick down cable it will shift----if not it will run in limp mode----some computers will not let it shift at all----my 3500 hd would shift to 3rd----no 4 th or lock up---------no will never get past 3rd in your cat-----trust me


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

My tranny is the non electronic 4l60 with just the Throttle pressure cable
Its the 700r4 with a different name.

Been into bunches of these boxes.

All governor shifted.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

You can install a manual shift control setup on the electronic units to allow control 1 2 3 4 by the selector

I will fool with the governor springs to get the shifts where I want them.

Will start off with the stock ones and see what it does.

With the low gears in the OC 12 box it may hike right up.

I am thinking that the thing will be manually selected a lot to keep the tranny from being extremely busy.


Today I scored a pile of goodies.

Edelbrock  intake for the V6 as well as an Edelbrock 4bbl carb and a billet HEI distributor.

Very right price too 

Local fella called me on my Craigs list ad.

Working on the design for the steering cyl/lever bracket
Gonna need to mock it up to get it comfy.

Lotsa cardboard cutouts and measuring.

Measure lots, cut and machine stuff once.   

I am a stickler for mocking stuff up and seeing how it looks and in this case if its ergonomic for the operator.

Having your tranny so you can control the shifts is nice.

If you run the 4L80E in 3rd and load the converter clutch it needs to have the multiplate conv clutch to really live a long time.

Most converter clutches are designed for light cruise use at low torque for top mileage.

I love the look of your Thunder


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Yesterday afternoon I physically got my hands on an Edelbrock intake, a standard carb intake, 2 Edelbrock 1406 carbs and 2 HEI distributors.

Been dealing with the fella on the text mssg for a few days, and yesterday we got together.

Looks good for $300
Will likely high grade the stuff and sell what I don't want.

Seems that factory cast iron 4bbl manifolds for the v6 are a desired item.

Will see where we go.

Gotta check it all out.


----------



## topwelder44

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

ROLLING THUNDER is bad asssssss---wheel adapters with 22.5---with 40 inch tires----6 inch lift-----gm crate motor---electric header cut outs ---molded in trans am shaker hood scoop ---old school gauges out on hood--bush wacker cut out wheel flares------all imron paint----stainless bumper----thunder is getting a big brother-------iam building a 7500 topkick----------there is a story why we call it rolling thunder


----------



## Snowtrac Nome

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

does the topkick get a gas guzzling big block too or are you going to put a real motor in it like a c series cummins or a 3306 cat


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

SWEEEEEET LOOKING RIDE

Is that a cannon carrier out back ???


----------



## topwelder44

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

cannon------keeps my neighbors on there toes---lol----restoration job for vfw-- cannon got 3 tone winter paint ---looks cool but was a lot of work(taping)---topkick is a 427 gas on propane---topkick is just another toy---gas mileage not important ---but I do have to look good going through town


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

I got some time yesterday afternoon and pawed over the goodies I drug home.

Aluminum Edelbrock manifold looks great, as does the one Edelbrock 1403 4bbl carb
The other carb is missing the electric choke, but no worries.

Stuck the cast iron intake on Craigs list to see if it can find a home.

The one HEI distributor looks almost new (Billet machined body) with no dirt and grime inside at all.

Looking forward to getting the Van home, but we have had just crap weather with nearly a foot of snow on the ground since Tuesday and cold cold cold.

The donor van is about 20 miles away, but have been waiting for warmer weather to bring it home.

Ma weather has been very uncooperative with my wishes.

Still in gathering mode now.

Grabbing what I can where I can in the way of materials for the project.


----------



## Snowtrac Nome

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*



topwelder44 said:


> cannon------keeps my neighbors on there toes---lol----restoration job for vfw-- cannon got 3 tone winter paint ---looks cool but was a lot of work(taping)---topkick is a 427 gas on propane---topkick is just another toy---gas mileage not important ---but I do have to look good going through town


 but with a straight piped turbo diesel you can sound great to


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

The foot of snow we had has departed now and the wind and rain are here.

Almost tropical outside this morning at 51 F 
Start cleaning up after the mess 12 inches of snow makes.

Gutters on the big horse barn over flowed due to ice clogging the drains last night and made a mess in the front aisle way.

Soon it's off to get the Safari van home, likely Saturday.

Looking forward to messing around with things, getting measurements and such for the project.

With parts dribbling in I am getting excited to get moving.

Sadly the excitement is probably premature, as I have not gotten any response on a rear axle or tracks.

But as they say.... "The night is young"


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Parts starting to arrive.

The steering master cyl's showed up.

Now I can get after making the floor bracket, custom clevis and the steering levers.

Once this is done it can go on the shelf for later when we get there.

But, I can pop the steering wheel off and do the fitting of the floor mounting bracket and then build the joy sticks so they are comfy to use and such.

I have several folks from short to tall that can lend a hand in trying the various positions of the front seat to get the feel correct.

I seriously want this thing to be comfy to drive.

These cylinders will make the mounting a snap and and machining a suitable clevis (pivot) for the levers very easy.

Just need to scare up the appropriate push rods.

Likely grab some universals and machine to suit.

I like the idea of a hyme joint at the connection of the rod to the clevis.

Will see what shakes.

Thinking about custom bending 3/4" aluminum rod for the joy sticks.
Inserting them into the clevis and securing with a 1/4" through bolt.

With this the sticks can come off easily to allow access under the dash if need be.

I'm pumped.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Finally, after several weeks of waiting we went out this morning and picked up the Safari van for the "Franken cat" project.

About a 20 mile trip home with no troubles.

Checked out as much of the on board systems as possible and everything seems to works as it's supposed to.

Glad to have the little prize home.

ONWARD we go.

More snooping to see what great parts for the project we can find.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Still gathering parts and pieces for the Franken Cat.

Scored a complete S10 frame with an engine and tranny yesterday.

Its a 2WD so the tranny will be perfect for the cat project and the tranny and transfer case from the van can get a new home and return some $$$$$ to the pot.

The front end of the frame has a lovely cross member/engine cradle that is ready made and will be a snap to remove and weld into the cat frame.

I much prefer adapting things that have already been designed to do a job rather than building totally from scratch with new materials (far cheaper too)

The S10 also provided a lovely air cleaner that fits the Edelbrock 4bbl carb thats going on the V6

The left exhaust manifold has the air Preheater shroud as well.

The rear tranny cross member can likely be used (in some form) for it's intended purpose.

The rear axle, front spindles and brakes will likely find their way onto Craig's list for a return of some $$$$$

Be a few days until we get the S10 frame home though as it's coming from a tow company/salvage yard and they are removing the cab and bed prior to selling me the frame, engine and tranny.

Also scored a complete Astro/Safari AWD front knuckle, hub, caliper and rotor cheap.

Going to repurpose this stuff to form a midship mounted drive shaft brake actuated by the standard vans brake pedal/booster set up.

Will take a bit of time at the lathe and mill to get these parts to accept their new duties, but pretty easy stuff...

Still got feelers out for an OC12 DIFFY and a set of 3 foot tracks....

Just gotta be patient.


----------



## redsqwrl

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

I love the updates.,

great project


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Thanks.

Spent a couple hours out fooling with the Safari and just got in.
Installed the replacement coffee cup holder /glove box on the dog house so it does not get broken over the course of the build.

Decided to clean the little beast out while the weather is nice as well.

Drug out the shop air hose, opened all the doors and gave the beast a royal blow down all the way.

In the process I found about $20 worth of decent sockets, pliers and such andf about $1 worth of loose change in and around.

Turned on the stereo and sat there in the drivers seat planning where the steering levers are going to go. ?????????????????

The little vans being a tad awkward to mount and dismount had me a tad worried.

Got a pretty sound idea starting to form.

There needs to be adequate room to access the throttle pedal and the brake pedal and not be a contortionist to do it.

At present it looks like the left turn stick/cylinder assembly can sit right below the left side of the column area (wheel goes bye bye but column stays to keep controls)

The right hand turn stick/cylinder can sit just aft of the dog house cover and the stick can angle towards the driver so it is comfortable to hold onto.

This arrangement will allow ample foot room while getting in and out of the rig.  (Relative term when referring to a mini van)


Pleased to be getting the dead V6 with the S10 chassis, as it will serve well to fit the engine cradle and such.

No worries about having a nice engine around where I'm welding/grinding.

Will get some more pix and info as it happens.


Until I get the diffy and the tracks it's going to be time to mess with the little stuff like the steering cyls/mounts and building the drive shaft brake and such.

Was snooping under the hood this morning too, and contemplating the radiator and fan set up.

Thinking seriously of using and older style radiator, possibly the size used in the mid 60's Ford falcon with the small V8 and adding an electric fan.

The shroud and the fan in the Safari just take up a huge amount of room.

The Falcon radiator is quite ample to cool the V6 GMC 

Getting the large shroud gone will open up a ton of room.

Also losing the ABS controller and several other unneeded items will free up more room.

I want the radiator to mount to the cat frame and remain even when the body is rolled back for access to the engine.

Plan currently will fasten the bumper to the cat frame and have the grille easily removable to allow the chassis rollback feature.

Ahhhhh yess...

Lottsa ideas.

One at a time


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Some goodies showed up in the "Widdle brown truck" today  

Got the CV shaft I ordered (Used) to scavenge and modify the first joint (Stub that goes through the hub) to create a center drive shaft support/ drive shaft brake.

Looks good outta the box.
Will rip into it soon and get it apart and ready to go in the lathe for some machining.

After giving the Safari a good Mucking out I took a few pix.

This is gonna be a sweet ride once we get rid of the tires and get the beast sitting up on a pair of 36 inch tracks.

Still needs a bit of cleaning inside, but still gonna make one comfy cat.

Had a fella call me a bit ago about a OC12 diffy.

We shall see


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Yesterday I got after the CV shaft shown in the earlier piccy.

This stub shaft will become the center shaft of the drive shaft brake, going into the disc brake hub (usual position) except being modified to accept a U JOINT flange yoke.

Took some pix of the stub in the lathe between sessions of worrying off material.

These suckers are very very hard and the carbide tools were taxed a bit.

I machined off the outer edge enough to get a nice area to allow six evenly spaced 3/8" tapped holes to fasten the yoke adapter plate.

Even after chewing off a considerable amount of materials and getting down into the "core" of the part, the material is still harder than a whores heart, likely 40RC 

Was thinking about using carbide drill and tap to get the bolt holes in, but decided to take the part to a local heat treat shop and have then pull the hardness back a bunch.


"Annealing" the beast will allow me to use standard drills and taps to get the holes finished.

Will stop by the heat treaters tomorrow and see what they can do as far as $$$$$

The cost of carbide taps is not at all Cheap, so a few bucks to anneal this bad boy is worth every penny.

The hub, rotor and other parts should be here tomorrow.

Glad to be making some chips and doing something other than make sketches and such.


For the application at hand the part does not need to be so ungodly hard.

Here are some pix.


----------



## Alaska Snow Cat

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Could you use the steering wheel to steer your cat? Mount the master cylinders horizontal on each side of the steering shaft that has an "arm" that pushed left or right as needed. Keep the power steering pump in place so no arm strong is needed. Just a thought.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

I thought about that, but as the bands wear a tad the hand levers can be cycled (like pumping a brake pedal) and with the steering wheel/gearbox it could get real sketchy.

With all things right up to snuff the idea might work sweet.

Sadly though the area where the steering box is located gets cut up a bunch to allow the body to roll fore and aft for service on the engine.

I am going to keep the PS pump as the rig has a hydroboost unit on the brakes.

Will toss the ABS box and the dual master cylinder and swap in a single reservoir type master to serve the new drive shaft brake.

Getting the steering wheel out of the drivers area is really going to make ingress and egress a bunch easier.

We had a 94 Safari a few years ago and getting in and out was always a challenge.

With just the column stock there (tilted up to the limit) really opens the cockpit up a bunch.

Once the body is up on the tracks I am thinking that getting in and out is gonna be an even more interesting maneuver.

Butttttt...

We shall deal with that as it comes


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

More work done and some long forgotten goodies dug out of a corner will provide pieces that will help.

While looking for something totally unrelated to the Cat project I stumbled onto a front drive shaft that had come from a 94 Suburban 4x4 

Hmmmmm.

Turned out to be a really usable piece.

The shaft needed a joint but otherwise was in great shape.

The shaft uses the GM 3R u joints which at this juncture is fine.
This shaft will be perfect to fit from the  Center mount disc brake back to the OC12 diffy.

The spline'd stub on the shaft is a 1-3/8" 32 spline  (Standard GM style) and I can swap a 1350 series slip yoke onto the shaft in place of the 3R yoke

This will give a 1350 yoke that can carry a 1350 to 1410 joint
So the front of the shaft will carry the 3R with the round flange yoke (shown in piccy) and the rear slip yoke will carry the 1350/1410 adapter joint/ half the joint is 1350 and the other is 1410 (fits the OC12)

A convoluted route to get things all cozy, but a perfect Franken cat plan me thinks.

The forward drive shaft will be 3R at the tranny tail shaft and a 1350 at the front end of the disc brake unit.

Starting to come together.

Getting these things "Imagineered" and all built will really speed things up once the fabricating on the frame and such gets going.

Spent a fair amount of time researching u joints, yokes and flanges this afternoon and this entire plan is looking real good.

Will need a catalog list of all the strange combinations of U JOINTS and parts in the drive line

But as I have stated before, it is far easier and cheaper to modify and use off the shelf goodies than buy all new.

I gotta wait and see what I get with the S10 frame in the way of shafts and such.

Here are some pix of the shaft


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Dropped the stub shaft off at the heat treat shop and they are going to anneal the bowl area back far enough that I can drill and tap the thing

$150 charge, but far cheaper than custom carbide tooling
Will be way cool to get that piece finished.


----------



## PJL

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

At the rate you're moving you will be cattin before spring.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

That is a lovely thought.

Sadly I have yet to score a rear cat diffy and tracks.

Once I score those items we're off to the Rodeo big time.

Building the main frame requires a couple things to be able to get started...

(1) An original Thiokol main frame blue print for the 1200 series (No luck yet)  OR....
(2) A rear axle and tracks to be able to set the locations for the rear end, center axles and get the overall frame length correct for the track length.

The plan is to use the junk engine from the S10 we scored to jig the engine location in the frame, as well as locate the tranny rear cross member and then of course the drive shaft brake unit and drive shafts.

Buttttttttttttttttttt, until those two biggies are scored things are gonna be slow.

Getting the little tedious items like the drive line brake and the steering cylinder brackets/levers and such can be done now while there is excess daylight to burn.  

Fabricating the bulk of the frame can be done in a few days, at least to the point of getting the rear diffy located and mounted and the center axles and forward adjustable axle.

Getting the Safari Body atop the frame will be a bit tricky as I do not have a crane to lift it.

Will need to crib the body up, locate and add the mounting/rolling brackets and then carefully roll the body onto the cat frame.

I don't intend on tearing the van apart until the cat chassis is nearing completion.

The van is currently running and we are using it to run up and down the hill to the horse barn/stable.

Moving the thing a lot keeps the mice confused and they don't get a chance to find it and move in.

Also running it in the bad weather keeps the cabin dry and stops mold.

We are at 1250 ft elevation and when there is a weather system in we are in the clouds and soup.

Leave a rig sit very long and it turns green, the rodents move in and so does the mold.

Sadly I don't have shop space big enough to accommodate the cat.

Gotta build it out side in front of the shop door on the slab.

Once the frame is fabricated it can get some paint and be fine under a tarp until the next fair weather.

Speed on this project is gonna depend mostly on finding the goodies.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

More goodies showed up today.

The brake caliper, rotor, hub, knuckle all got here this afternoon.

Weather is a tad cold to be fooling with stuff so it will be a few days until I can get more than a casual look at the stuff.

The first look see is good though.
Rotor looks great, as does the caliper and even the pads are in great shape.

The hub bearing is a tad loose, but that can be replaced a long ways down the line during final assembly.

The knuckle is very nice looking piece as well.

Got a call this afternoon and the S10 frame, engine and tranny are ready for me to pick up in a day or two.

Weather is gonna be crappy for a few, so will defer until things improve.

Guy sent me a piccy of it with the engine wrapped in a baggy to keep it from filling with water.

Still hoping to score a diffy and tracks.

Patience, patience, patience


----------



## wannagoflying

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

It's been great reading of your project. May be able to dig up my as-built from my 67 1200A. Need to sort thru a few hard drives in the safe. When located, what version of AutoCad or a PDF with measurements? Worst case I can as-built again in a few days. Please send PM with email.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Thanks

PM SENT


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

A quicky update.

The heat treat shop called up and said that my stub shaft is done and ready to be picked up.

A big THANK YOU TO WANNAGOFLYING for some much needed help in the Frame blue print Department.

An email I sent out netted what appears to be a good possibility of a set of 3 foot tracks.

They are currently in a safe place under a lot of Snow  

No real hurry at present, but I am excited at the possibility of getting this part of the equation nailed down.

Next comes a good diffy.

No replies as yet on an OC12, but even a good C4 will get things to giddyupgo.

The old Spryte I drove years ago was equipped with the C4 i would say, as it had a 4 speed transaxle.

The C4 is not my first choice, but if treated right they can handle what I need.

The Franken Cat is not going to be equipped with a groomer or a blade and with an auto tranny the C4 should be fine.

But no hurries to jump, and lottsa time to snoop.

WE are getting ready for what could be either an 18" snow dump or a very cold soaking rain.
Weather folks are as yet unsure.

We shall see


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Been giving some thoughts to using a tried and true concept when it comes to this build.

"Mock up"

Thinking about gathering up some heavy lumber  (4x12) and tossing together a very rudimentary frame that I can fit the Flexiride units, tires, wheels and tracks on and then set the track Overall width at 102" and get a really good look at things.

Mock ups were used for years and years to check ideas before anything was "chiseled in stone"  

Wood and cardboard are very cheap and can be hacked together quickly to gain a lot of valuable data.

Any really ugly problems can possibly be avoided as well.

Since this build is a total "Franken Cat" with nearly nothing in common with a tried and true design that's already been built, it seems reasonable to do a mock up and see what shakes.

Steel is expensive and once a frame is welded together it gets real ugly when you need to hack things apart and change it.

The wooden mock up will allow location of all the bogie wheels as well as dummy up the drive sprockets on a round post (literally) across the rear.

Once the tracks are positioned I can really get a feel for how much actual room will be available for placement of the engine and tranny.

It might seem like a lot of extra work, but I do believe a lot of good info can be gleaned from this approach.

The frame is actually fairly small (Relative term) and the lumber needed should not cost much.

The actual Flexiride half axles can be lag bolted onto the wooden structure and will be secure enough for getting real time measurements.

Unlike so many builds that are done, this one is a true "Roll your own.

The only components this cat will share with its most distant cousin (Thiokol 1200 spryte) will be the rear diffy and the tracks.

Once we get past the point of the tracks and the diffy things really skew off into the very ethereal zones of "imagineering"

In other words, as we used to say back in my younger days (teens) as a musician,  ahhhh, "Hum a few bars and I will fake the rest" 

Once the real frame is constructed out of steel tubing (Likely 3 x 3 x 1/4) then the fun is really going to start when the Safari body gets to go on 


Got the all ahead go on the S10 frame.
Going to pick it up tomorrow.

Here is a current piccy of the S10 frame as delivered.

4.3 V6 and 700R4 tranny, fuel tank, exhaust system, rear axle, front spindles and brakes.

Looks like some of those goodies can be resold to recoup some of the $$$$

I plan to use the 700R gearbox as it is a 2WD type and other than doing an overhaul (seals, clutches, band and a few upgrades) will not need any hard parts changed to go right into the cat.

Having this complete power pack along with the engine cradle is going to be a real help.

I am thinking that the entire cat frame can be completed or nearly so without tearing the van apart.

Once its nearing completion the Dead engine can come out, the tranny freshened and then the Safari body can be coaxed onto the frame.

In the mean time the van can be driven some to keep the rodents at bay.


A little ditty for y'all.

WAY UP IN THE STICKS WHERE THE BLIZZARDS HOWL, ON A COLD DARK NIGHT THE FRANKEN CAT PROWL'S 

Dreaming too much, I know


----------



## PJL

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

If you are gonna build a cat out of wood and cardboard why not just get a Kristi?


----------



## JimVT

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*



PJL said:


> If you are gonna build a cat out of wood and cardboard why not just get a Kristi?


come on pete, we all know the cardboard is the life size girls.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

C'mon guys, I just opened the page while getting my first cup of coffee going and have coffee coming out my nose.

ROFLMAO  

Seriously though

Back in my days in machinery building we used to do quite a bit of mock up's

We did not have the elegant cad/cam goodies   "Still don't" 

Yes, I am seriously thinking about doing a very simple wood mockup of the sub frame that will allow me to mount the tracks and such, and then sit the engine and tranny package in to get a really good visual on things.

With the plan to use the 4.3 GM V6 there does exist the the real possibility that things are going to be TIGHT.

This is the main reason I am going to extend the width out to 102"

The inline 6 cyl engine are taller, buttttttttt narrower than the V6... Exactly how much room I am gonna have to deal with past the exhaust manifolds is still a big ??????.

Maybe some block hugging headers ???? 

If things are a tad tight the height of the package my be able to be raised some.

I want to keep the engine as much lower than stock in the DOG HOUSE area as possible to allow easy access to things.

For anyone who has not had the MIS fortune of wrenching on an Astro or Safari, well the words used are not acceptable here most likely.

I want things like plug wires. plugs and such to be easily accessible without needing a left handed spastic squirrel monkey to get them.

The plan is to have the body such that it can roll backwards about 4 feet to gain complete access if major work is needed, but for minor repairs it needs to be accessible.

Got the cardboard girls in the corner, ahhhh, they are about all the fans I'm gonna have watching.


----------



## PJL

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

In my experience with the cardboard girls they get wet and mushy in the snow.   

 You do have a cool project brewing and I enjoy reading the updates.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Thanks for the thumbs up.

Plastic laminated girls are the deal.

No mushiness


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Got out yesterday and dragged home the S10 CHASSIS

Almost drowned doing it though.
Pouring down rain by the bucket load.

Only saving grace was the yard folks sat the chassis on my trailer with a big fork lift.

Got it all home safe and sound.

The rain let up a bit late in the afternoon and I got a chance to look things over a bit.

Several items that are readily salable and with any luck will bring back what I paid for the entire chassis.

The entire engine and accessories is there as is the 2wd 700R tranny.

The complete exhaust system is there too, and will likely serve well as a good starting point to build from.

Nice cross member for the rear of the transmission that can easily be used in the cat.

Decided on a Flowmaster single to dual muffler as they make the V6 sound nice and will easily fit right into the cat chassis.

Too wet to get a good look at the engine cradle, but from what I can see it will be a very easy adaptation into the cat frame.

Far easier than building all new from scratch.

There may be a few other goodies, but mostly I wanted the 2wd style tranny to save having to scare up an output shaft and tail housing.

I can part out the Van tranny and t case as a unit and likely recoup some good $$$$

Wanted the factory engine cradle, exhaust manifolds (has stove for carb heat)
Exhaust crossover and exhaust brackets.


----------



## wannagoflying

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Robyn.. here you go with a little more than wood and cardboard. Sketch what you need and route it back as I'll add it for you. Looks like your cardboard mock up is not going to last in the northwest rain. The front bogie is on a slide tube and I do not have the exact travel run out. The width is to axle face as I've not measured my offset on rims. I'd get the torch out and start hacking that S-10.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Interesting little morsel

The Thiokol manual says that the track width center/center on the axles is 61"

Is yours wider for ????


Summer time is coming and the cardboard girls are plastic coated

As soon as the rain lets up some I will start yarding goodies off the S10

I want to market as much of the leftovers that I can right quick and recycle the $$$$

I have had bites already on some stuff.

If the luck holds I may get my parts and the $$$$ back in the pocket to use again.  

Weather is supposed to clear off in a few days and I may be able to get after things.

REALLY SUCKS RIGHT NOW.


Thanks for posting the drawing up here


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Was your machine equipped with 31 inch tracks ?????


----------



## wannagoflying

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Mine is an early model 1967. I'll measure the tracks tonight.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

cool


----------



## undy

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*



wannagoflying said:


> The front bogie is on a slide tube and I do not have the exact travel run out.


It'd need to move 1/2 the length of track pitch, minimum.  That way you'll adjust one full grouser space, minimum.  You need at least that much movement, and can make larger length adjustments by adding or removing a grouser (and belting).


----------



## wannagoflying

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Measured summer tracks and they are 35-3/4" to 36" wide. No offset on drive sprockets so it's 104-7/8" wide.


----------



## wannagoflying

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Here is the layout subframe of the 1200C.


----------



## Snowtrac Nome

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

might I make a suggestion try to pickup a 2100 ,and cut off the outside belts. you might find the full tub of a 2100 easier to adapt to ,rather than trying to adapt to the lattice frame of a sprite. and 2100' can be had on the cheap


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Been looking at all the options as they pop up, and I still come back to building an all new frame from the giddyup go.

My main concern is getting the basic dimensions so I can design the new frame to accept the 3 foot tracks and allow either the C4 OR OC 12 diffy  to fit.

Now, if a 2100 comes creeping into my life I will certainly welcome it with open arms.


So far everything I have seen around here are piles of rusty scrap metal with huge price tags attached.

Or operational machines with even bigger price tags   

My building budget is very minimal.

I buy a pile of goodies, then sell off what I don't need, then recycle the $$$$$$ again and again.

Right now my focus is back to the engine/power pack.

The S10 heap came with a nice tranny and a junk engine (engine will Work well for fitting things up)

The Van runs sweet and only has 125k on the clock, so I am thinking about leaving the engine, tranny and T case as a complete package and selling it for some good $$$$$$$$

I found a 94 4.3 V6 that runs good but it was in a truck that lost the tranny.

I can get the engine for $150.

Thinking..... (I know, that's dangerous)

Pick up the 94 engine and check it out, get it converted to use the Edelbrock carb and the old style HEI.

Get it running on a test stand and get the tranny from the S10 I just bought all spiffy (I used to run a small tranny shop years ago, so I will do the bench work)

Mate the engine and tranny and then I can keep the van intact until the last minute before tearing it apart.

Also can demo the van (engine tranny operating) and arrange a good sale.

Running and "touchy feely" sells better than DEAD in the corner.


Things are still in a state of flux (Normal eh) 


Until winter fades away things seem to be slow in popping up.

As yet no real promising leads on much other than the track I mentioned.

All the ideas and suggestions are appreciated.

I need a "Go find me" a snow cat page maybe


----------



## Snowtrac Nome

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

for some reason 2100's seem limited this year in years past I seen some nice specimens out on the east coast for the 3 to 4 grand running price they have super duty axles and the oc-12  if you remove the out side band you will be at about 9 feet and still have 4 feet of track


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

The 2100 sounds interesting indeed.

The only caveat is that I want to keep the overall width at 102"  (8 foot 6) so I can legally run the critter down the road or haul it if I want without issue.

Possibly the axle width can be narrowed up to get things to the 102" max.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Looking at the 2100 frames and they appear to be very little different in structural layout than the Spryte, just a bunch bigger with the far wider stance.

The 3700 now is an entirely different critter.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Yesterday was a good day.
Craig's List ad paying off.

Got a call from a fella looking for some S10 STUFF and he showed up and we did a deal on the rear axle and the entire Serp drive system off the engine.

Real close now to getting what I want for $0.00

Weather was nice yesterday, so it was pleasant being out wrenching on stuff.

Really amazing thing though was that after getting the serp drive off I was able to get all the exhaust manifold bolts out of the heads with ZERO issues.

With another day or two of good weather in the offing I hope to get the engine and tranny out of the chassis and in out of the weather until I need them.

The gathering process is always fun.

The "IT'S NOT THE DESTINATION, IT'S THE JOURNEY" that counts.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Sort of in a slow time at the moment.
Have a fellow coming up this morning to get more of the unwanted (by me) S10 stuff.

I ended up with a factory 4 bbl intake from a 4.3 V6 that is not needed and again extra stuff sells readily (For someone else's project) and pays down the costs of my project.

Working steadily on securing a set of tracks for the beast, and have got a solid deal cooking on a set off of a 2100 that are 49" wide.

It is my understanding that these can be narrowed up easily.

Trying to sort out all the data I can before I really get into building the new frame.

I was offered the 2100 tracks at a reasonable $$$$ and they are fairly close. (Driving distance)

I am excited, but have to temper the feelings and make good decisions on things.

Hmmmm
I need more goodies to sell off and get some $$$$ for the project


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Does anyone have a parts/specs manual on the Thiokol 2100??

Looking for as much info as I can get

Thanks troops


----------



## Snowtrac Nome

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*



Snowy Rivers said:


> Does anyone have a parts/specs manual on the Thiokol 2100??
> 
> Looking for as much info as I can get
> 
> Thanks troops


as I have the machine I also have the manual package for it. what are you interested in ,give me a number I could snap some pics of the pages that pertain to what you are interested in, and text them to you. safety 0ne has a data sheet posted on their site


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

PM ON THE WAY

THANKS


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Safety one shows only 57 inch tracks.

I am looking at a pair of 49 inchers 

Maybe the are not from a 2100 ??


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Major design changes have been decided upon.

Thinking about all the work ahead and the mods I had been planning and then decided to change directions quite a bit.

Since the van runs so great and all systems function near 100% I decided to keep the engine and tranny in the factory location and mount the entire Safari, guts feathers and all on the new cat chassis.

The only caveat was the AWD transfer case and getting power to the OC12.

The AWD cases require both drive lines to be connected to operate.
Hmmmm.
Decided to swap out the AWD case and bolt in an NP233C case from an S10 which is a manual (Actually electric servo motor) shifted case.

This is a direct bolt in case and will allow power to be directed to the rear only.
The front output will not be needed and can be left unused.

The electric shift motor can be removed (2 bolts) and the case set to 4 high and the selector shaft locked in place with a small bracket the will bolt in place of the motor.

These changes will allow the cat to be assembled far faster than I previously had planned.

Once the "Track chassis" is complete it will be a simple step to roll the Safari on top and bolt it in place.

The only real work will be the drive shaft, and depending on the angle needed may have to have a CV joint in it.  (Not gonna sweat the small stuff)

The other issue will be the steering  cylinders/levers and hosing that in.

Still looking into a simpler smaller and more compact steering system, but plenty of time.

Last night I located an S10 T case in good shape for $50 and gonna head out in a bit and snag that prize.

So, it looks like the S10 frame gets to stay in one piece for a while longer.

When this new plan hatched my first concern was having the engine and tranny at the stock height due to the higher center of gravity, buttttttttttt, after considering all the bigg Azzzz 4x4 rigs that ya need a ladder to get into running around that don't seem to fall over and play dead readily, it seemed that with a total width of 102" the plan was sound.

Thinking about the Tuckers and some other machines that have their power plants etc fairly high it seems like a great way to get this project up and going easily with far less work and expense.

Very excited about the current direction of things.


----------



## topwelder44

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

looks like you should go this way----ill be out today with the grandson and a few beers (he watches the in car cam on the drag/no beer) ----been out all winter riding around and grooming my trails a set of mattracks and 500 in a set of 2 plate wheel adapters (my shop builds)and go


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Mattracks are a sweet deal, but at what cost ????

I looked into a set for my Burb a few years ago and about choked on the $$$$$


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

More good news.

Picked up the NP233 T CASE and it is nice.

Had a fella call up and want some goodies off the S10 chassis and ended up sending a pair of factory mag wheels and some other stuff bye bye.

$$$$ are at a wash at this point.

This is good.

Got several goodies with the T CASE I don't need that will sell quickly and bring more $$$ for the project.

A great day all around.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Good things finally happening with a set of tracks.

A BIG THANK YOU TO DON UP NOME WAY for measuring the tracks on his 2100 this afternoon for me.

A set of treads I have available are the 57" 2100 tracks and if I cut the outer belts to 3 inches wide and get them cozy right along side the inner belts I can end up with 36 inchers.

Trimming the grousers off and moving the holes in toward the center will finish the revamp.

This is starting to make me feel like we are moving in the right direction anyway.

So this will give me a basically standard (sort of) track that uses components that are not too tough to find.

The 36" track setup is the max I can use and still keep the machine "Street legal" SO WE CAN GO DRAG THE GUT 

Many many hours of research are starting to pay off.

Again, thanks to all for helping with ideas.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Weather is sloppy but a little bit of work is going on.

A lot of engineering  (IMAGINEERING IS A BETTER TERM)

The slight left turn on the design has changed things a bunch as far as parts needed.

The S10 chassis is out of the picture completely as far as parts for the Franken Cat goes, but is coming apart and going down the road piece by piece for good $$$

Just about got the thing stripped now and the initial small $$$$ outlay has risen to within a very few $$$ of paying for the set of tracks I have waiting for me.

Amazing what a few $$$ and some careful wrench time can glean from a pile of junk.


Yesterday saw the exhaust system come off all in one lovely piece.
I never would have bet the head pipe flange nuts/springs would have come loose, but a week soaking with DEEP CREEP and every nut came off easily.

Sold the tranny yesterday too.

Down to just the frame now.

Craig's List is on duty, and the rest should be gone soon.

Planning for this summers agenda.

My shop door is too narrow to get the cat out and we keep hay for the horses in the rear of that building, so no welding/grinding in there.

Decided to pour small slab outside my basement shop area big enough to have a flat/level spot to work on.

Without a cover it will be summer time stuff, but better than working on the dirt.

With a level slab things can proceed quickly.

Sooooooooo...

Gather, gather, gather the parts needed.

Pour the new slab.

If all goes well there will be a set of tracks here in a month or so.
Good possibilities for an OC12 are in the works now.

With some luck I can get the tracks worked over (Going to narrow up a set of 2100 tracks) this summer and then get to work going through the OC12 box and getting it all spiffy.

I am not going to plan too much farther out for this year at present.

More gathering of parts, bits and pieces is likely what will happen as next fall closes in.

Just have to take it one day at a time.

Once all the materials are stock piled this thing can go pretty quick.

Excitement has surfaced its head


----------



## undy

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

This thread is sounding like an episode of American Pickers.    Buy some stuff.  Sell some stuff.  Repeat...

If it was me, I'd hold off on cutting down a good set of tracks until I was absolutely positively certain that, and exactly how, I was going to use them.  Once they're cut, they're not worth as much to potential buyers, just in case this project detours again.

I hope this all works out as well as you hope.  But with the many hours of research, part/s swapping, prototype mocking, plus the parts to make this thing and extra expenses like that concrete slab, I'm hard-pressed to see that it's going to be cheap - unless you don't count your labor hours.  (?)

I'm anxious to see what you come up with, and what you eventually have into the build (as far as hours and $).  Best wishes, and thanks for sharing.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Thanks

As far as the slab goes, its just the cost of a few 2x6's to form it and a load of mud  (About 4 yards)

Get a few helpers and  a couple hours (Tie up the dogs) 

The deal with the tracks is pretty straight forward.

I need to have a set of 36 inchers.

Max width on the rig must be NO MORE than 102"

I have a set of 2100 tracks that are 57" and the price is right.

I can easily (Relative term) remove the outer belts, cut them down a bit then move them tight against the inner belts and the reattach the grousers after shortening them.

The 57 inch tracks would be sweet if I lived in a place that had more snow and no worries about hauling the beast or running it on the roads.

With our situation here the rig must be legal width.

American Pickers  

Ohhhhh yesss

My parents were into that very thing back in the mid 60's and made a great living at it.

The apple never falls far from the tree ya know 

Sadly I can't write a big check for the project and have stuff dropped off.

Gotta buy, sell, swap, etc to gitterdone.

So far the cost are really low.

With the Van coming in at $250 that took care of a huge portion of the build.

Cab, chassis, creature comforts, engine, tranny all ready to go to work.

Of course the cost of the tracks, Diffy, road wheels, suspension parts and the steel for the cat frame will add $$$

Still think this project is gonna be very reasonable


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project (FRANKEN CAT)*

When it rains it pours.

Going over details in the drive shaft, emergency drive line brake and u joints.

After getting a plan pretty well figured out I discovered this afternoon that there is a big buzzy fly in the ointment.

The engine/tranny are offset in the little van about 5 inches to the right, ahhhhhhhh, no worries, or so I thought.

The OC12 is on center and this was going to entail building a two piece drive shaft with the rear section using a standard cardan type drive shaft from the diffy to the brake/center support assembly.

Up close to the transfer case I had planned a modified CV axle in there as they can operate in a combined angle with no sweat.

All went well until doofus here discovered that the fuel tank is in the way.

The tank is inside the frame rail and very close to the drive shaft.

The tank gotta go.

At present the plan is to move it behind the rear seat and simply lengthen the fuel lines and run them through the floor.

Not a big deal, but more work.

Having the fuel tank in the stock location would be a real mess if the fuel pump were to die, as the tank would be nearly impossible to remove without taking the van off the cat frame.

Always something.

Makes engineering a fun thing  

The S10 tank is narrower me things and will be easy to fit comfy behind the rear seat.

I did not want to move the tank, but it's the only way.

Having it inside is no big issue other than taking up space.

There is simply no room under the rig.

I have owned many pickups in years past that had the tank behind the seat, so back to basics I guess.

Off to the rodeo


----------



## topwelder44

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

I really don't think I would worry about drive shafts and gas tanks ----get your frame built ---install axles --rear drive and who cares how wide the tracks are ---install them and cut them down later---like the other guy said---start hacking your tracks and they will not be worth much-----you can plan this build all you want but you are going to have a lot of by the ways and o shits---my fab shop builds fiber optic machines for a company with lol hot shot over paid engineers and we always have by the ways----I have 2100 sprockets ill sell


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

The only Caveat with leaving the tracks wide is that everything is based off of a 66 inch center to center on the sprockets and to keep the 102 overall width.

There must be sufficient distance between the tracks to allow the frame risers to come up for the Van body to sit on.

I am trying to measure, calculate and get all the bases covered as close as possible before ever laying a saw on any steel tubing.

When all the numbers come together and stuff continually agrees in the real world with whats on paper then I will buy steel and start stitching it together.

The fuel tank on the van sits right where the drive shaft center support has to go.

The offset drive train complicates things a bit, but at present all things can morph a bit with minimal bother.

With the current plan and measurements a standard 36 inch set of Spryte tracks can be dropped on with no worries.

I am well aware of the OH $HITS  and other train wrecks.

That is precisely why I am going over as many details as possible before it costs $$$$$

Once the numbers are all crunched and 1+1 = 2 consitently I will fab up the frame.

Unlike a restoration this cat is going to (Should) go together quickly.

With the body being complete with all equipment and everything working properly the mods to the chassis are very minimal.

Little work really

Plumb in the steering controls and the drive line and things will function.

I really want to avoid spending $$$$ on things and having to do stuff over.

Mistakes on paper are easily rectified, but out in the field it gets a bit dicey.

I used to work in the wood products industry and built and installed huge equipment.

Far too many thing did not work in the real time.

Like you mentioned about the highly overpaid engineers.

These guys never had to get their hands dirty fixing the screw ups.

I was in the shop as a Journeyman welder, fabricator, machinist and also spent time in the electrical dept as well as the hydraulics shop too.

This background was helped by the fact that I had an engineering degree as well.

My last position was as a field service engineer/ installer  (The make it work crew) 

Having the engineering background helps some.

Sadly I have to balance things with whats practical and what can be afforded.

Also I believe in using as much off the shelf stuff as possible to keep cost down.

Your 2100 sprockets ???

What tooth count ???

If memory serves the 1200 and 2100 use similar sprockets  ????

I know the pitch is the same.

I just want to avoid (if possible) having to redo stuff or stumbling onto issues late in the game.

Having as many standard parts as possible is top priority.

If I need a replacement part, I want to be able to hit the Napa or Autozone and walk out with it.

There of course will be things that will not be as such, but minimum as much as possible.

I guess my reluctance to start beating on the iron so soon is the result of having to cut so much stuff apart in the field over the years.

Since the mistakes are coming from my pocket, ahhhhh, noooooooo.

Once the steel starts laying down I want to feel comfy with the design.

In reality I can't use the 2100 tracks as they are, simply too wide.

102" is the magic number.


----------



## topwelder44

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

ok I really don't think you get it-----what is the center to center on the rear end your using-----the tracks on the inside will all b the same the outside changes----the tracks could b 10 feet wide---the inside/center to center does not change----a packmaster is a packmaster-----and the budget thing----lol


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Some tracks are asymmetrical, happily the ones I have are standard 57 inch symmetrical ones.

The diffy is a standard Spryte and the specs call out 61 inches center to center distance

(Spec sheet says wheel track width)

This dimension seems to vary from spec sheet to spec sheet.
Some have called out 65 inches for a standard width.

Another sheet called out 99-1/2 inch overall width with 36" tracks, and this would calculate to a center to center of 63-1/2" centers..????????????????????????


Tooooooooo many variables that I can't just overlook and start tossing steel together.

Setting up the 57 inch tracks as they are on the basis that a standard 3 foot track must end up at 102" would require a center to center distance of 66"

OK

Lets set the axle up with 66 inch centers and then stick on the 57 inch tracks.

1/2 of 57 inches is 28-1/2 inches

With 28-1/2 inches inward on both side from the center of the sprockets will be 57"

With this set up the inner edges of the tracks will only be 9 inches apart ?????

Using the 36 inch width will place the inner edge of the tracks at 30 inches apart.

This allows enough room to fabricate frame risers to extend above the top of the track to mount the body to.

As budget goes.

As little as is possible is the key here.

I will spend $$$ where I have to, but this project is running on a tight purse.

I simply do not have the luxury of a fat wallet.

I do understand .

What I don't quite have a handle on is the worry about cutting the tracks down to do what I need.

Cut now or cut later and the results will be the same.

The plan is to start building like building a house, foundation (Tracks) and then the framing, then up from there.

I really do appreciate the concerns, but rest assured, nothing is gonna get chopped until the tape measure has been laid on things and the calculations are all agreeing.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

I might as well take the time to explain "Budget"

Mine is minimal as I am retired and have tight limits on "Disposable funds"

Sooooooooo.

I will spend, lets take the S10 frame for example, $300 for the entire frame and running gear.

I took off 1 component I wanted and then started selling off the unwanted items.

Just about done parting it out now and the $300 investment has turned into $1200 return.

One piece at a time, ka ching $$$$

The actual cash outlay for things will be heavily surpassed by the return on unwanted goodies.

I bought the 233C transfer case from a 96 S10 with adapter and front drive shaft for $50 and then sold the adapter for $50 and the front shaft for $50

Sold the electric shift motor for $25 (Don't need it)

This is the way I do projects.

Two years ago my son in law wanted to build up a 53 GMC Deuce and a half 6x6

We scared up the first of 3 trucks for $400
Then a second truck with a fire tank and pump for $1000
Third came a complete truck (Drivable for $1500)

Started planning and gathering more parts.

He wanted diesel power, so we found a diesel engine.

Next came the tranny.
Scared up a 4 speed Allison for $200

Allison too big, sold it to a fella for his Nodwell for $400.

Bought a Turbo 400... Kid wanted an OD tranny.

Sold the 400 and tripled the $$$$$  (From $100 to $300)

Sold off the Army truck (6x6 extras)
Fire tank $500
Front bumper $100
Spare tire carrier $100
Engine $800
Tranny $400
And so on

Anyway
My $$$ outlay is back in my hands and the kid has his pile of Army truck goodies to fool with.

This is how my budget works.

A real left handed way to get things done, but it makes it possible.

Thank Gawd for Craig's List.

Best thing since sliced bread.

So, the project continues.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Progress is happening, but slowly.

Picked up the CV hub that will become the center drive shaft adapter yesterday from the heat treater's

I had them anneal the bowl area so I can drill and tap it to fasten on a drive shaft flange on.

They were able to get it back to about 20 RC hardness, which will be within reason to drill and tap.

I have decided to do a complete air system for controlling the OC12 bands as well as horns and other annoying accoutrement's 

The air source had to be reliable, so after some looking I discovered a company that builds a nice pump based on the Sanden AC pump.

With the power steering pump and steering box off the van chassis there is plenty of room to install the air pump in the space left.

The pump uses a electro magnetic clutch (AC TYPE)

Because this set up is not the rugged type stuff I am used to on class 8 trucks I decided to add two 100% duty cycle electric pumps to make a triple redundant air system.

With the issue of steering pretty well nailed down the issue of variable brake application came to mind.

Decided to use a double check valve in each brake band circuit and then run air from a standard single circuit brake application valve to the check valves and then to the air chamber on the OC12

The steering pressure will be high enough to lock the band and the braking pressure will be variable so braking will be controlled.

The double check on each feed line will determine what happens.

If the brakes are applied to slow down (Say 10 psi) and steering is needed and steering is activated (Pressure of 60 psi or?? fixed pressure) will override the braking and shuttle the double check on the side that's being asked to steer and fully activate the band.

With a quick release valve on each brake chamber the band action will respond fast enough for the speed this rig will operate.

Two small air valves with spring return to zero will mount on the top of the steering wheel adapter flange to run the steering.

Picked up a used Sanden SD508 compressor yesterday to get after modifying the LH serpentine bracket on the V6 to accept the pump.

The drive line offset issue has been figured out now and pretty well looks good.

I want to use as much off the shelf (Easy to get) u joints and parts as possible.

I do not want to get into specialty u joints/ CV shafts and custom house parts that are not an item that can be purchased locally.

Weather is still a negative issue as far as any serious work outdoors goes, but at this point it's far better to be getting the build drawings done and a good bill of materials knocked out.

Starting to get a pile of parts in the corner with more items coming.

Getting excited.


----------



## mkntrakes

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

So am I understanding  this right you are collecting all these parts to build something and you don't have a differential ????????????????


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Diffy located and a deal in the works.

You have one that needs a new home ???

I have had access to one recently to get important info from as far as dimensions and a good feel for the general layout.

Sadly it is the wide stance version and it is not for sale. 

But I have a good standard one coming.

It will be summer before it arrives.

Armed with a lot of good data from available specs on both the Thiokol 1200 and 2100 and on the van there is a lot of parts that can be gathered and a lot of engineering work that can be done.

A big thanks to Wannagoflying for some fabulous tech on the Spryte 1200

I wish I could snap my fingers an make all the goodies I need appear POOOOOF, but the weather and location of stuff is making patience imperative.

I am not one to head out to the shop and start beating on the iron before a decent set of working drawings are reasonably complete and critical numbers checked.

Anything with the van portion of the project can be worked with and engineering done.

The parts gathered so far are basic items that have lot of latitude in their usage.
Components for the air system
Drive shaft components that will readily adapt to those used with the van.
Tracks located and deal made.
Diffy located and deal made.

I will not stock pile the steel tubing for the cat frame until the Diffy and tracks are in my physical possession.

Once those two key components obviously make it all go.

In the mean time there are a large amount of small items on the bill of materials that can be procured and set aside.

Small amounts of $$ spread out over time makes the cost easier to work with.

Some of the engineering issues are quite time consuming and take hours to find just what I want in the way of parts at affordable prices.

The goal for the coming summer is to get the tracks and the diffy home and a new concrete slab poured out front of the shop to build on.

Our one large building with a slab has hay storage in the back for horses, and this kills its use for any welding or grinding.

That's about the long and the short of it.

Still enjoying the project, even if it is not moving fast.

Once the diffy and tracks are on site I am comfortable that the sub frame can be fabricated in a weekend. (Not completed, but the basics welded together)

Once the frame is done, getting the van on top will be relatively easy.

One piece at a time


----------



## undy

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*



Snowy Rivers said:


> What I don't quite have a handle on is the worry about cutting the tracks down to do what I need.


Who, me worry?

I may speak for others when I say that I'm a bit skeptical that anyone can design the ultimate snowcat from scratch, and then construct it on a shoestring.  I'm sure Tucker intended to do so from the start, but they sure changed as time went on.  Please prove me wrong, and you'll have everyone here begging you for details.

It won't matter a whit to me personally whether you cut down those tracks, but as you yourself pointed out:



Snowy Rivers said:


> I am well aware of the OH   and other train wrecks.
> 
> That is precisely why I am going over as many details as possible before it costs $$$$$


It's said that: "A smart man learns from his mistakes.  A wise man learns from the mistakes of others."

Avoiding "costs $$$$$" is exactly why I bothered making the suggestion.  If you cut 'em down and succeed with building a super-cat, great.  But if you cut them down and for some unforeseen reason don't end up using them as planned, they will be worth less than uncut tracks to try and resell.  Either way, won't effect me.



Snowy Rivers said:


> Cut now or cut later and the results will be the same.


Exactly, so what's the rush?

Please, do as you like.  No worries on my part.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Not even trying to build a "Super Cat"

Just want a reasonably well functioning toy is all.

If $$$$ were flowing easily I would still pinch pennies and scrounge, it is what I do.

Most folks here have heard of or watched the TV Show "American Pickers"

Back in the 1960's my folks got involved with the then new craze of Garage sales.

My father was between jobs at the time (He was a machinist, welder, fabricator, tool and die maker) and a fellow he met during his previous job had gotten him interested in the "buying and selling" game.

The folks teamed up with a local auction house and did the "picking" and the auction sold the goods.

Antiques such as tables, chairs, glass, china yada yada yada.

You name it and it went through here at some time.

As a youngster I learned the picking game and how to buy, sell trade and so on.

The techniques have served me well over the years and now that I am retired it is a plus.

I spent over 20 years in heavy trucking, not because it was lucrative, but because I loved the work.

With some serious health issues having cropped up in 2012 (Cancer and a stroke) I gave up trucking and retired.

Retirement is boring.

Living on a fixed income makes planning projects tedious at best.

Buy sell trade.

The goal is not to build anything better than the big boys (MAJOR CAT MFG) do or have done, but simply to build a cool toy.

Many van cats have been built by others and each is unique to it's builder/owner and their creative ability.

It really does not matter if the outcome is better or ???? than any other, but it is my creation and toy.

Obviously the results will not approach the benchmark of machines the likes of Pisten Bully, Prinoth, Tucker, or any currently built Groomers that can cost in excess of $100,000

It is a toy, nothing more.

Back in the 80's I bought a 40 foot GMC coach used at auction and converted it to a motor home.

Tons of these have been done and commercially built ones are available with costs in the mega thousands of $$$

It was my creation and we enjoyed it for many years.

Bought the rig for $3000 at a bus auction up in Portland
Did the interior and painted it.

Completed it for about $15000 total $$

We used it from 1986 to 1993 and sold it when we built our new place here at the ranch.

In 1995 I bought a new big rig and was just too busy hauling and had zero time for much other than trucking.

In the early days Dad and I fielded a Drag boat or two and had fun building those.

All of these toys were "Shoe string budget" projects.
All worked great and a good time was had by all.

We even won a few races and met a lot of great folks along the way.

During the time we had the coach we traveled some and again, met tons of great folks.

I hope the cat project will be as successful as past projects and that we can meet a lot of great folks.

So far I have spoken with some of the members here and hope to meet in person as time goes by.

Just want to have a fun toy.


----------



## topwelder44

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

in one of your planning stages you have said that the motor is staying in the van body--I really hope you can turn the transfer case down and use it as a drop box---using a mini van to build this thing sounds to be about as long as my sv200----and you are going to need some kind of drop box-----I see you were asking about some tracks from a  br100 here in new York-----your van mounted above a set of short tracks like u will need a drop box------there is a pack master on Albany ny cl. 3500.00---there is all the parts you need to get started-----tracks in cato ny all your parts in one trip----hell just put your van body on the pack master and go


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

A drop box would be sweet, sadly they are not easily in the offing.

The plan is to angle the cat diffy upward at the pinion a bit and use a two piece drive shaft arrangement.

The van engine/tranny are offset to the right about 5 inches adding to the issues.

PLAN.

As mentioned, point the diffy up at the nose.

I have an Astro front drive spindle that will lend itself readily to be modified to become a center shaft bearing and drive shaft adapter, plus a great mounting for the drive shaft safety brake.

First shaft coming from the diffy will be a nice reasonable angle up to the center support.

The center support will be in the same plane as the crank, tranny, T case except be on center line of the rig.

SEcond drive line will attach via the slip yoke to the rear of the NP233C T Case and then angle to the center support.

As long as there is not a compound angle on the shafts/joints then life will be great.

The little V6 with this build is pretty benign when it comes to torque, plus all the reduction through the rear axle and track sprockets and life will be fine.

Hmmmm

I don't remember asking about BR 100 tracks ????

Been looking for 3 foot Spryte tracks and currently have a set of 2100 tracks available.

The Packmaster is wide.
I am real tight on keeping symmetrical tracks and an O A  of 102"

NY is a tad out of my stomping grounds, at least as far as driving goes.

I am south of Portland Oregon about 25 miles.

Helluva road trip for sure.

A 2100 close by would interest me though as it can be narrowed up.

The mini van thing is interesting, but there are a few caveats that have presented along the way.

Still working on a diffy.

Patience is a virtue I could use more of


----------



## topwelder44

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

how long do u think your drive shaft will be------and again a pack master is a pack master----tracks can be 10 feet wide------wheel center to center is the same on all machines----they didn't make different frames / wheel c to c for different tracks----I just looked up my sv 200 its 11 feet long---a sv250 is about 12 feet----so your van is about the same----so think about this---if your motor tranny and t case take 6 feet your rear end from axle center to yoke center 12 inches----drive shaft will be maybe 4 feet at the most and with this van sitting above the tracks with like 6 inches of clearance and your axle center to top of track 1 foot---and the tranny tucked up in body 6 inches like a 2 foot drop min. in maybe 4 feet or less----ouch-----he is my new summer ride iam building I have about 1 foot drop in 5 feet and it seams a lot even with a carrier 2 feet out splitting the drop


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Sweet ride.
I like the Dahoooooley box on top.  Class, class.
I am a GM FREAK. 

Once we get closer on the Franken cat the true dimensions will come into view far more readily.

There are high angle 80 degree shafts made, but by changing the pinion angle some can really help a bunch.

As long as the diffy is not twisted waaaaaaaaaay up towards the moon things will be ok.

A drop box would be sweet.

I wonder if anything exists that can bolt to the back end of an NP233C CASE.

Anything can be built, buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut ????

A 12 inch drop or so would really help things.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Just had a thought....

Using a second NP233
Build a bracket to bolt to the cat frame and take the second NP233 and bolt it in with the front output facing rearward and straight down or better yet, down and towards the center to negate that offset of the drive train.

Connect the output of the case in the van to what is normally the output of the second case (Now a drop box) 

Use the front output shaft from the second case to feed power to the rear.

This is a convoluted contraption, but might work sweet.

Possibly a slightly stronger T case like a 241.

Use the 4 high position and the case will transmit the drive straight on through.

Might be a very inexpensive way to solve some serious issues.

Not sure how well the oiling will work with the case stood on end though.

Gonna give it some thought and see what I can dig up.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Did some research on T cases

An NP208 with a passenger side drop (EARLY GM) if spun around backwards will place the formerly front output shaft facing rear and drop it a fair amount as well.

I found a couple local for very cheap with the heavy cast adapter stool.

One of these can be readily used to adjust the Safari drive train offset and gain some on that big drop to the rear diffy.

To get the offset dealt with the clocking on the adapter/mount can be redrilled to get the (formerly front output) right smack on the centerline of the rig.

With this the drive shaft angle to the rear will be great reduced.

The former input which will be facing the rear now (inside the adapter stool) can be capped with a plate.

Case placed in 4 high and input the old output and then connect the drive shaft to the cat rear end.

Great way to get this bagaboo "outadaway"

Red neck drop box eh ????


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Well I found the caveat with the 208 (other than the usual bad press)

Running the case backwards will not run the internal oil pump.

That shoots the plan in the foot real quick.

Butttttt, a big azz 205 T case can be run any way you want and be happy as a clam.


Looking for a 205 case.

These are plentiful and not real spendy.

Another plus is that the 205 is virtually indestructible.

Don't have to worry about it being the fuse.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

More research and some chatting with a buddy in the Ag machinery business.
The fella builds custom spray buggies from "Kibbles and Bits" 

He gave me a good low down on the Various T Cases and what will work.

Back to the 208.

Found a low mile one from a roll over wreck (Rig was rolled off a bank)

The plan adds an electric gear type fuel pump to feed oil to the internal oil pump of the 208.

After seeing the idea up close on a case, things started happening.

The 208 will deal handily with the needed drop and centering of the output shaft.

The drive train basics are definitely moving ahead.


Found this cool video yesterday while surfing.

A Weasel with a 302 Ford V8 and C4 ford auto tranny.
This little rodent flat hauls azz.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qx0zhoqF4iQ&t=5s


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Bad news troops.

Yesterday the Deep well here at the ranch (800ft) had serious issues and is in the process of getting repaired.

The cost is going to be in the many thousands of $$$
The last time we had issues with that deep Azz sucker was 10 years ago and it stuck me for $9K

So for the foreseable future my cat project is shelved.

The well has to get fixed.

Been fun troops.

Good luck to all of you.

Snowy


----------



## Northcoast

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Having water is always 1st.  (next is the septic)!  Enjoyed following your project.


----------



## zekeusa

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

I have a '97 GMC Yukon for a donor vehicle. Thanks for the great idea!


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

THANKS TROOPS

MAYBE SOMEDAY.

I listed the van on Craig'S List this morning.

No sense in having it sitting around.

It will be a couple years to dig out from this train wreck.

Gonna take my leave now.

Thanks for the fun.

Snowy


----------



## topwelder44

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

key word-----thanks for the fun        ?


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Hi all.

WEll WAS FIXED and things are getting back to normal.

I'm back on the trail again with the same Ideas as before.

I sold the Van I had and made a bunch of $$$ off the sale that helped a bunch on the cost of the well.


I still have some of the goodies I had collected and that's a a good thing, and yesterday I popped an ad on Craig's list to scare up another Astro/Safari van.

Just gotta get back to work on this project before I get too old and or decrepit


Too soon to say much other than the plan is about the same.


----------



## PJL

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Welcome back Snowy.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Like a bad penny...I keep turning up 


Thanks


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Yesterday saw some good things happen.

Scored a nice 97 Astro van RWD.. So now we are officially back in the groove again.

Around these parts folks seem to think these vans are GOLD
Looked at several in the early 90's that were just Chit boxes and they were priced in the $5000 and up range.

These things were just trash.

Got this widdle jewel for $1500..

Lotsa cushy inside... Gonna make for a sweet ride.


As of last week things are looking like we have a Weasel diffy in the offing..
Still waiting for an absolute on the diffy, but its sounding like a go...

Some pix of the Donor..

CATVAN II


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

More good news...

The ongoing deal with the Weasel rear axle has jelled and we will get it here in a month or so.

There has been mention of the Weasels having weak axle shafts ...

The axle tubes are a bit too short for what I need, so am thinking about taking the tubes off of a chevy 3/4 ton rear axle and  adding a custom end flange that will bolt to the Weasel center section.

Once the Sprocket center to center distance is achieved then a fresh set of shafts can be whipped up to fit.

There is an axle shop close that I spoke with and they can do the custom shafts very reasonable.


BOTTOM LINE

I can end up with a very nice custom setup for very little $$$$$

Also I wanted a transfer case to act as a drop box/side shift box (Astro drive train is offset about 5 inches to the RH side

I found a nice NP203 case the other day that's in lovely shape for nearly nothing .

The case seems to have had the full time swapped with a kit to part time which is of no real worry to me.

Going to use the case by driving the (What was) FRONT output and then using the rear output to feed the Weasel Axle.

All standard yokes... so that is nice.

I have not had time to measure the Weasel axle input yoke, so not sure what u joint it uses..

Studebaker used what was standard I would think... HOPE...


Anyway.

Things are coming together fast this time.

Looking to scare up a 3/4 ton full float rear axle to scarf the tubes and hubs off of.

Building the new axle tubes will be a snap.

My lathe is big enough to handle the job easily.

So...

All for now..


----------



## sno-drifter

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

I would go with a 205 transfer case with gear drive instead of the 203 with chain drive. 205's are cheap as they seldom fail.

$.02


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

HI

Yessss 
The 205 is pretty much bomb proof..

They are scarce around here and when they do surface they seem to be GOLD PLATED 

I got the 203 for $50 and its in great shape.

The chain does not worry me much.

I had a FORD F250 with one in it and HUGE tires powered by a 427 FE series pumping out a bunch of power and never had any issues at all.

Real sure that the little V6 in the van is not gonna stress things much.

I was trying to find a 205 but just way too much $$$$$$ for an unknown condition.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Gaining on things

Van came home today and I got some topside pics.

For having sat for 9 years the beast drove out really great.

Just need to get the Weasel home and see what sort of shape the gear box is in and then things can start heading in a good direction.

Only caveat is the Weasel is sitting under a bunch of snow at present.

April...depending on the weather.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my projec With the 5 inch offset in the center of thet.*

Good things happening here.

Really got serious on the drawing board and got down to serious details on the drive train.

With the 5 inch offset in the center of the engine/trans/rear axle the questions kept haunting me as to how I was going to get the drive shaft down from the 4L60E to the Weasel rear axle pinion yoke.

Making one single drop was just going to be a pain, since the high angle double cardan u joint sets do not not come with a slip yoke for the 27 spline that's in the rear of the tranny.

If a 1350 setup is used, then there are tons of options.

Sitting here thinking last night and a possible option came to mind.

We have an extra GMC M211 6X6 sitting out in the yard thats a parts rig, and it has a complete forward rear drive axle with the pillow block still there.

The pillow block is a cast steel housing that bolts to a welded on bracket and it has a through shaft with two herky bearings and flange yokes that are 1350 bolt pattern.

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS. 

The truck is a 1953 and was sold at auction years ago and the bed removed and the power train sold off.

We got the truck cheap to use for parts for our two runners.

I spent the afternoon arguing with the bolts to get that pillow block off the truck.

3 hours and lottsa Skunk pizz and generous bleeding (mine) the little prize is off and on the bench.

Here is a pic of one thats clean to see wassssssup.

A nice bracket on the cat sub frame will allow the pillow block to be located in the proper relationship to allow a nice drop using the Astro rear drive shaft.

The Astro uses the 3R GM u joints and an adapter joint is readily available that is 3R X 1350

A 1350 flange yoke accepts the 1350 side of the u joint that will go in the rear of the Astro drive shaft (Shaft may end up a bit shorter...not absolutely sure yet.

The flange yoke bolts right to the flange on the pillow block.

Then we can use a shorter CV shaft to connect to the rear flange of the pillow block and then to the pinion on the Weasel rear unit.

Depending on the final pinion angle and location of the diffy the CV may not be needed.

I have a lovely front shaft from a 95 Suburban that had a bad joint and it ended up in my pile of goodies.

This 3R jointed shaft can easily be fitted with a couple 3R to 1350 u joints and be used.

Again the length may require some pruning.

Been there done that many times over the years to make shafts for my 4x4 trucks.

These recent revelations are certainly not down to the final few thousands of an inch, but the time spent under the rig the past couple days yielded enough good dims to confirm the basics are in the ball park.

Being able to use the factory drive shaft from the van and the left over Burb shaft will save many $$$$ to use elsewhere...

AS mentioned, the piccy of the pillow block was one I scared up as mine needs a bath.

NOTICE THE FLANGES ARE NOT INDEXED CORRECTLY, AND THE ARE OFF.

Somebody had one or both flanges off the shaft and did not index them right.

The side thats on the bottom in the piccy has a machined flange and four 5/8" tapped holes to mount the beast.

Inside are two big ball bearings, two seals, big shaft and the two 1350 end flanges.

A ready made solution to my problem that was already paid for.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Got the tools all over the pillow block I yarded off the 6x6 yesterday.

Got it all apart and it is in fabulous shape.

The seals were a real PITA to get extricated from the end caps.

3/4 inch thick metal clad seal the were glued into the covers.

The Deuces were designed for fairly deep water FORDING.

Bearings are smooth as a babies butt and that shaft is not gonna give up with the widdle V6 reefing on it, not even...


Going to wash things all up, install new seals and refill with some good grease.

This bad boy will handle the twin drive shafts with ease.

Likely could have left the thing alone, but I want my hands into anything this old thats not previiously worked on in recent times.


Here is what I found


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

I got the new seals for the pillow block coming ... they are inch size rather than metric (Which is common in automotive use) and we had to order them...be here Monday.

The lovely flanges are a standard version of the 1350 series of flange (These were made specifically for the GMC M211 6X6)... I scared up the correct  4 bolt mating flange that will interface with the flange on the pillow block.

This combination will allow the use of the stock Astro rear driveshaft (Other than possibly needing to shorten the shaft a bit)

The Astro (This year) uses a good old standard Spicer 1350 joint

Note*****

I mentioned earlier that the van used the GM3RL joint

THIS VAN DOES NOT.

At any rate the parts so far are all pretty off the shelf stuff..

I also mentioned using a shaft from a 95 Burb to fit between the pillow block and the Weasel axle.

Very possible a change here.

Looking through the shop I found a complete front drive shaft with the CV joint and bolt up flange from an 89 Doge 250

Excellent shape and will buy some latitude on the mounting of the Weasel rear axle in regards to the pinion angle.

With the CV at the rear of the pillow block the angle of the Weasel can be quite variable as the CV will allow the rear joint to take care of itself.

May have to tweak the Weasel pinion angle up a bit to make everything happy.

Getting some fairly good dims on driveshaft angle is a godsend now and will make my frame fab work much easier come summer.


Sadly I don't have any more shafts laying around...but the parts I have will suffice and are off the shelf items  (Except the M211 pillow block)


Got the vans heater fixed ... Vacuum hose broken in many places.

Once the heater was was working the check engine lamp went out too ...SWEEEEEEEEET

The vacuum leak was keeping the computer from allowing the system to go into closed loop and was running extremely rich... COUGH COUGH  NASTY

The engine runs extremely smooth too.

Check the tranny fluid and it was not on the stick...took nearly 2 quarts to get it happy.

A leaking cooler line at the radiator connection was the culprit ...DRIP      DRIP   DRIP


Getting these little issues handled now will save me a bunch of work later on

Once the van goes onto the subframe I really don't want to have to fix crap on the bottom.


Thinking strongly about replacing the starter and a few other things while they are easy to get at... (Relative term)


That's about it for now...


----------



## topwelder44

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

I have question----it sounds like your leaving the motor in the van and hooking it to what ever mess u build into the chassis/running gear-------------how the hell will u ever work on that thing under the van-----if you ever blow a shaft out in the snow how will you fix it ----dig a tunnel-------I had to change a u-joint out on the trail when I had my sv-252---lifted the rear floor and changed it(simple)---I have a sv-200 that iam getting ready to put a cab over on it and its going to tip like they do when on the truck---most cats have skid pans also---pain in the ass to pull on the trail broken down----I have a geo tracker and a Suzuki x-90 on tracks when I take eather out hitting the bars I never shut them off----the starter will freeze and the doors freeze also----so if u ever get this thing going----don't shut it off unless your home or by a heat gun----lol


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Great day today...

Pouring down rain and just nasty outside.

The title to the Van showed up so we decided to go to the DMV, PLUS we had some other business at the county seat, and just as we are leaving the house my contact at the little junk yard calls me and says my Astro front suspension is ready to pick up.

Sweeeet.. got 3 things done all in one trip...  I like that, so we took the Burb and gotterdone..

These two bad boys will quite easily mount in the rear to allow a very simple use of the lug stud flanges and nuts to secure the rear of the cat frame.

These were off of an AWD which is hear nor there but will allow an easier mounting than the Spring fronts on the 2WD


I found 4 of the factory Rally wheel caps with nuts to trim the finished assembly out and give it a nice look..

I HOPE   

This little addition will give me 4 good attachment points for the cat sub frame to the van chassis that will be easy to deal with.

More re purposing


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

With the tags now on the van we started driving it to work any bugs out before it gets it's permanent assignment.

Right off I discovered a need for front brakes and the rear end howls.

Brake pads replaced.

I hate to spend much $$$$ on the rear axle as it will go away buttttttttttttt, we need to run this beast and work out any other issues in the power train..

The snow is still getting deeper in the mts where the Weasel is, so just gotta sit and wait.


----------



## rdynes01

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

I know you guys told me not to come back, but i just stop by when my insomnia is acting up........Bob


----------



## topwelder44

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

this has to be a fake post -----this dude needs to go back and read his posts----a lot of bs and nothing getting done----the well went dry last year---lol---whats next---the roof blew off-------lol---I had this cat figured out before the well went dry---- no pun there-----dude shit or get off the pot-------------better yet go buy a cat and put all your unneeded crap in it------someone had to say it


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

I HOPE YOU HAVE A NICE LIFE SIR.

I assure you this is not a fake post.

Every thing I have mentioned is true and spot on.

Maybe you will change your mind at some time in the future.

I will continue to post pics and info as things move forward.

AS soon as the weather permits we will be heading off to get the Weasel.

Yessss..

The well is fine...just had the pump fail, and at 800 feet down that is costly.

Try making a pension  budget work when you get slammed with $8 grand you are not planning on.

THE ROOF IS FINE.

REPLACED IT SUMMER BEFORE LAST.


I am really not quite sure why the caustic replies ????

Send me a PM and I will send you my phone ### and you can call me.

I am more than happy to engage in a conversation.


I find the total slam a bit out of place.

Certainly there are trolls and all manners of stuff on this web, but be sure about things before you call smack down on folks.


I have been on the diesel truck boards for years.

I mentioned a while back that I am a moderator at "THE DIESEL PAGE"
http://thedieselpage.com/

Go BB forum and look for posts by Robyn  AKA Missy Good Wench



And for your info sir  I am not a DUDE OK ...

65 Year old gal that has battled through these many years and been down the roads of hard knocks.
Served as a shop supervisor for many years in the wood products bizz.
Ran a small trucking company for the last 20 odd years of my working career and during the time frame of 2002 -2013 operated a gun shop in our local town.

Call smack if you like... Just verify before you take pokes at people.

Ahhhhh..no  hard feelings here though.  

I been down life's highway too many miles son to let a jab or two bother much.



JUST AN FYI

I have spoken on the phone with SNOWTRAC up in AK 

I have also had several conversations with Kier at Chameleon inc regarding tracks and various parts.

Recently spoke with Kier and learned they have a new baby girl...

Sorry to deflate your troll alert, but pretty genuine in what I'm up to and where things are heading..

Just tacking at things from a slightly different angle.

Again...no hard feelings...


----------



## BearGap

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

You sound like a hell of a woman! Maybe a little long winded... it would take me a week to type all that. I'm just a newbie with a  20,000 square foot....I mean a 2000...er, 1/2 of a garage for a shop, but I say keep it up.

Dan


----------



## PJL

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

I don't know Snowy/Robyn but if I ever get jumped in an alley in some sketchy town I think she would have my back.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Thanks guys...

I am not super by any means, but try hard as hell.

My looooooong posts likely come from the many years of helping my fellow diesel pickup enthusiasts rebuild their Chevy Diesels.

Far too many folks hit the boards looking for help on a project and get little to no real good info that they can use.

Or they get belittled because they are not part of the "In crowd"

If any of y'all are GM diesel freaks C'mon over to "The Diesel Page"

A very good crowd that will go the extra mile to help gitterdone.

I am pretty careful about tossing out my Phone ####, but any who would like to chat or just talk shop, I am willing to do it..


Just PM me and I will send the #####

I generally don't post my piccy on boards that I have not been a Member for a loooooong time, butttttttttt, here is a piccy of me and "Dahoooooley"

The engine went away about 2 years after I bought the rig and the project took some serious paths back to glory

Over at the Page is a complete write up on the rebuild of the engine.

AND THE POSTS ARE LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG 

As far as my shop goes ???

Small machine shop in the basement and lottssa room outside.

The cat project has fired me up to the point that I am going to pour a 12 x 18 slab in front of the basement roll up door so I can fab the cat sub frame on a level surface and NOT HAVE TO CRAWL IN THE DIRT 

Having to work outside is one of the main reasons I am spending MUCH time doing the drawing board stuff and gathering a few parts that will come in handy later.

Yessss guys... If we find ourselves in a bind some dark night... "I got yer 6" 


I have been on the boards since 2001 and it never ceases to amaze me at those who will hide behind their keyboard and take hard pokes at others..


We get them at the page from time to time, but they usually either mellow out or go away..

Again.

Thanks guys for the good vibes.

I am not going far

As more things come into view I will post the info.


At present there is little I can do until it's Weasel time  (At least late April or early May and we can get to the Weasel)

About all that's doable now is to make sure the power train part of the project is in good shape.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

This one is to Mr TOP WELDER

Your sarcasm is rather obnoxious, but I can let that slide.

Yeah  
You had it all figured out, yeah right..uh huh

So as if it's any of your business here is the receipt for the well repairs.

Look at the date  (Right when I packed it in the first go round)  GO TO POST 134  of March 11th 2017

Look at the $$$$ amount  (There were some other $$$$ spent by me not on this invoice)

See the $1800 credit???

That was what I sold my project van for.   


Don't be so quick to judge please...

And my roof did not blow off.

May of 2016 we had a new complete roof done at my expense...


Soooooo

Kindly be a tad more respectful please...

Again no hard feelings  

JUST AN FYI

The lead man listed under labor... SHE WAS A 29 YO GAL 
The helper listed was a 20 year old Marine that is the grandson of the company owner and was home on leave.

And I turned a wrench or two to help things move faster as the second day (going back down) the weather was closing in on us and a 3rd set of hands got us done by the time the rain hit.

Just sayin...


----------



## rdynes01

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*



PJL said:


> I don't know Snowy/Robyn but if I ever get jumped in an alley in some sketchy town I think she would have my back.



What exactly does this have to do with the subject of this thread? Anyway, I come onto the forum to learn about snowcats mostly and granted people can stray a bit far from original subject but after 10+ pages of this thread we learn more about stuff that has nothing to do with snowcats and more about her personal life and problems than really belongs on the forum dedicated to restoration and modifications forum. Just my .02 cents worth.....Bob


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Bob

With all due respect (big time)

I came here to learn and get ideas as well.

I am trying hard to build a custom Cat (Which has been posted here many times) and the project has to start at square one with a custom job.

Unlike rebuilding or renovating an old unit a custom critter takes some finesse.

Seems that some folks are much smarter than me and would go out and start welding up a bunch of steel on a frame to nowhere.

I have a direction that I am heading, but some folks seem to need validation on everything and if they do not understand then it's all just fake.


I certainly would not have posted anything other than whats cooking with the project, except some folks seem to need something.


The custom cats I have seen here were very nice and I have to start with the basics first and then move from there.


My personal life is really nobodies worry, except some folks seem to make it their business.


Once the Weasel is home (under 5 feet of snow) things can progress a lot.


Rebuilding old junk is far easier than starting from scratch.


Thanks Bob for at least asking ?????

Maybe I can concentrate on the project and not have to validate who and what I am from here on out.


I have seen a few folks show up, make a post or two and ask some questions, and they have grand ideas...then poof they are gone.


I had a bit of a set back, but am back in the groove and can get things going the way it needs to.


Without the steering diffy from the Weasel nothing can move far.

Everything at this point can only surround getting the power train ready.

Now lets relax some and let things move forward.


Sorry I can't justify spending big $$$$$ on a junk cat, but most of it would be wasted with what I have planned.


Again...Thanks Bob


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

OK

Some real pix of important things.

Pix of the Weasel taken this fall.

The diffy and the LH sprocket.

Should be easy to fab a good solid framework to hold the diffy in the location needed.

I will post pix of the retrieval when we head out and the loading and such.

Should be a fairly easy go to coax it onto the car hauler.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

OK troops.

At present things are about as far as we can go until we head to get the Weasel, so unless something fantastic happens I will likely not be posting anything much on this thread.

I will try to get plenty of pics of the Weasel trip to share with ya.

I have to be honest.... I am not nearly as excited about road trips as I used to be..

Be safe...


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Well, the snow depth at Weasel ground zero is at about 6 feet, so no joy any time soon.

Getting the trailer ready for the long trip.

Tires were all pretty old on my car hauler (new in 1982) 

Got a much newer set of tires sitting in the shop now and will get them mounted in the next few days.

I do not want to deal with blowouts along the freeway...not even.

Keep ya updated as stuff happens...


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Not much happening folks.

The snow is still piling up at the Weasel location..

Here it is the middle of APRIL and its still COLD here

In preparation for the haul I got the much needed tires/wheels for the car hauler all mounted and ready to go on.

Probably get those on the trailer in the next few days.

Hurry up and wait


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

UPDATE

Things are set to get the weasel over Memorial day weekend.

I will get pics of the trip


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Updated yesterday...

Weasel recovery has been bumped up to the 19th...

The owner had conflicts for the holiday, and so the change.

Keep ya posted


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Well...sort of good news.

I was cruising online and stumbled across a complete NEW OLD STOCK ring and pinion set for the Weasel rear axle.

Still in the cosmoline grease and box from 1945 

Deal was good enough that I could not pass on it.

May not need it, but it has value later on as trading stock for sure..


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Quick update.
No good news.

We spent several hours driving to look at the Weasel...

After chatting for a few minutes with the owner I decided to check the axle over.

Grabbed the pinion yoke and could not budge it.

I had a few tools along with us so grabbed a large pipe wrench and still no go on turning the pinion.

Decided to remove the oil plug on the front and LOTTSSA water poured out along with much rusty goop.

Chatted a few more minutes and left the Weasel right there in the dirt.

STILL LOOKING FOR A DIFFY FOR THE PROJECT.

Back on the hunt.

TIRED after driving all day... OH well, that's the way it goes.

Will update when something pops up.


----------



## topwelder44

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

still think this is a fake post----------dude there is a lot of stuff to buy out there-----grab an old packmaster there cheap and all over the country------come on dude how could that guy not tell u it was junk and set up------really---u have been talking about the big build for how long---?---and u only have a junk chevy van your driving------------u talk about your household crap going bad ----btw we all go through it-------------again this has to be a fake post---------one of my airplanes was flipped over in a wind storm  ---iam still playing with my cats and will be posting pics. of my next sno cat build/project--------------------------lol  just sayin


----------



## Bombi1

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

More nasty comments from Mr. Wonderful (top welder)


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

You have got to be the most insensitive clown I have met so far.

I have a specific plan and it does not include a buttload of money.

I love digging up great deals that can be had for minimal $$$$ outlay.

I have invited you to join us at THE DIESEL PAGE and you can verify  pretty much who I am.
I have not seen you drop by at the page....

You seem to be quite intent on sitting behind your computer calling smack down on whatever dies not suit you.

I have received some PM's from others that were/are not really pleased with your attitude.

Straighten up and fly right... be a decent sort.

I'm terribly sorry that I don't have a metric buttload of money and airplanes to let the wind blow around..


Relax dude...

C'mon over to the page and maybe you will see the truth about things.


I will not engage you in a pissy fit name calling go round.

I always make polite comments about other folks project.


Give it a rest...


----------



## Melensdad

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*



Snowy Rivers said:


> Relax dude...
> 
> ...
> 
> Give it a rest...



As moderator here I have to agree with these comments.  Let's not devolve into something less than we are.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

It would seem so...

If this fella has money drizzling down his pants leg I am seriously happy for him.. 
Really I am, but I have to live on a tight monthly budget and that's a hard fact.

I buy and sell used goodies to pay for my projects.

Recently bought a Chevy NP203 transfer case for $50 and turned it for $250...

A little here, a little there..

The comment about the seller not knowing anything about the Weasel is just a sad deal.

The guys father had several and got old and they had to sell the estate...
The seller lives as far away as I do and was quite gracious to have us haul the beast off and drove to meet us..


The new owners of the property could care less about Weasels and were indifferent about it's demise.


I am sad that the diffy was a mess, but after sitting in the weather open to the elements it does not surprise me that it had gathered water.


I am not discouraged, just not real happy.

Been waiting all winter to get my hands on that diffy.

Without the GO BOX things sit at a stand still.

Other than fixing the vans little issues.

The rig will make a great cat once a diffy can be found at a price that's affordable.


I am at a loss as to what is to be gained by calling smack down on another persons project..


We all have dreams and go after making things come together...

Just being able to write the check or toss down the cold hard green for a CAT is just no fun in my book.

If that's all you can do I guess that's fine, but to belittle others goals and dreams is just not cool.

I am 66 years old now and just don't have much patience with the BS.

I have always been polite with everyone here, and will continue to be that way.


I am sorry for anyone who just feels the need to go to such lengths to rag on stuff they know little about.


Hey...
Thanks for the comment.

I will keep digging and looking for a decent diffy for the project...


Keep the faith bro...


----------



## Melensdad

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

I think it’s safe to say that you don’t need to explain yourself. This is not a forum for debate.  We have a debate area if you want to do that.  This is an area for you to discuss your project. If someone doesn’t like it, like your progress, or anything else, that is their problem.


----------



## pinestumps

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Rivers,

Have you thought about an automotive axle brake diff steer?  I understand its operation is far from ideal, but you might find that it might be suitable for your projects budget?

I respect your patience and tenacity for trying to resurrect an old clark differential though!

An old quote from RG Letourneau that usually gets me through designers hell;  "Better a decent machine in the field working than a perfect one still on the drawing board".


----------



## redsqwrl

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

I plus one on the Highway based diff.... grab a rockwell out of an old IH or dana 60,70 and slap some substantial brakes on it. It will turn. there was a forum member who retrofitted an astro van with thiokol 2100 running gear and dana 60's he was in utah.

I have been giving the frandee design (two differentials) some thought and the constant track tension is kind of a cool design, it relieves the stress on the front wheels and as topwelder says the grousers are not moving while on the ground.

easy enough to fab it in there a bit further back (for now) then when you score a sw 48, OC 12 or weasel diff, the track length could be correct with the proper diff located a bit forward....
forum nuttster (sp) relocated a diff in an imp in this manner.....


----------



## Pontoon Princess

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

the frandee design is a good one, works well and is cheaper way to make a snow cat that goes good in the snow. I watched the frandee at mccall own the mountain.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Thanks troops for the ideas and patience.

I have given thought to the idea of using a regular highway diffy for the reasons you mentioned.

Yesssssssssss.. a working unit in the field is far better than the best ideas still on the drawing board that are unrealized 

I am still hoping to find a planetary type steering box.

The one thing about the VAN chassis is that it contains all (most) of the mechanical's, the creature comforts and the rest is actually simple.

I have been getting the odds and ends that needed fixing on the Van taken care of while the hunt of a suitable diffy continues.

I won't bore y'all with the gory details, but I want the chassis to function as closely to AS NEW as I can get.


The actual fab work on the cat chassis is very simple so when a diffy plan comes together I can jump on it.


Chatting with Pine stumps about his machine and the track design he has.

Looks quite promising...

Heavy industrial belting is readily available USED and can easily be tailored to fit the need.

I may turn my diffy search to the small crawler tractor arena and see what can be scared up.


Around here the amount of used snow cats are minimal at best, and when you do find something it's either total scrap, or a fairly decent machine that's big $$$$$

To the end that I wish to attain, buying a used Packmaster or other retired machine is still very cost ineffective and cost prohibitive as the bulk of the machine will end up as scrap after I get a usable diffy and a few parts.


This applies around here based on availability of stuff to buy..


Just had a thought....

A Ford 9 inch rear axle is an easy score and are hell for stout.
4.88 gears are an easy score as well  (Weasel used 4.88 gears)


The Ford diffy is not extremely heavy (Weight thing) 

I am thinking about a planetary hub for each side ????

Use a Spool in the main diffy and control the steering with the hubs ????


I had not given that idea a thought, but maybe this could be a solution.


I will do some snooping...


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Did a few calcs and looked up some diffy housing width info...

We used to build sand buggies to play over at the coast (I am 50 miles from plenty of sand)

We used 9 inch Ford diffy's (Usually) and plumbed up the brakes to individual cylinders for steering while climbing and sharp turns in the deep soft sand.

A herky set of 3/4 or 1 ton disc brakes off any of the later pickups and fit them with some nasty ceramic pads should make the beast turn.

I never really gave much thought to this plan of attack.

But after seeing the post by Redsqwrl I got to thinking...

Been many times in my years past that I have had a rear brake on a rig get greasy and grab sending the rig into another lane of traffic.


Some bad Azz disc brakes will no doubt make the beast turn.

Far more economical plan maybe..

I spotted an "N" Series 9 inch Ford center section with 4.10 gears locally for cheap.

That one is a 28 spline.

This set up may not be quite as maneuverable at real slow speeds but should do fine as long as the rig is in motion.


One things for sure is that parts are readily available.


This plan definitely fits my idea of re purposing readily available items.


The Tucker used basically an automotive diffy, but they articulated the assembly.....


Thanks much for the ideas.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Hi all...
I'm back..
Scored a 2100 Packmaster that's only 30 miles away.

Sealed up the deal this morning.
Very pleasant fellow to deal with.

Area is very sloppy right now, so will wait to drag it out in a few weeks or at least when things are much less wet.

It is on a trailer and will be a breeze to move.

The van cat project is still the goal.

I am also helping and old friend fix his 2100.
Some materials from this cat will go to fix his unit.

CAT VAN project has been refined a bit...

Going to narrow the 2100 up a bunch.
shooting for 102" OVERALL WIDTH.

Looking like narrowing the tub, the frame, the axles and go from there.

No engine.
No hood or radiator.
THE BEAST LOOKS PRETTY GOOD the chassis has not been thrashed.

Came from a ski resort not all that far away....

Been a long dry spell and finally a good score.

Something to work with.

After we get it home I will get more pixs as I get going on the beast.


----------



## PJL

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Welcome back.  

https://bangshift.com/general-news/...rd-falcon-club-wagon-mounted-snowcat-awesome/


This van was built on a 2100.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

As was pointed out by others here....Get a 2100...they can be had reasonable.

I found many...just did not want to drive across the continent..and to find this sweet heart 30 miles away was a godsend.

It's good to finally have something other than a dream and ideas.


----------



## Jim_S RIP

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*



Snowy Rivers said:


> Hi all...
> I'm back..
> Scored a 2100 Packmaster that's only 30 miles away.
> 
> Sealed up the deal this morning.
> Very pleasant fellow to deal with.
> 
> Area is very sloppy right now, so will wait to drag it out in a few weeks or at least when things are much less wet.
> 
> It is on a trailer and will be a breeze to move.
> 
> The van cat project is still the goal.
> 
> I am also helping and old friend fix his 2100.
> Some materials from this cat will go to fix his unit.
> 
> CAT VAN project has been refined a bit...
> 
> Going to narrow the 2100 up a bunch.
> shooting for 102" OVERALL WIDTH.
> 
> Looking like narrowing the tub, the frame, the axles and go from there.
> 
> No engine.
> No hood or radiator.
> THE BEAST LOOKS PRETTY GOOD the chassis has not been thrashed.
> 
> Came from a ski resort not all that far away....
> 
> Been a long dry spell and finally a good score.
> 
> Something to work with.
> 
> After we get it home I will get more pixs as I get going on the beast.



Welcome back Snowy!

Jim


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Thanks Jim.

Been a long dry spell....and I missed y'all.....but until I found a good pile of junk that resembled a cat....it made little sense to post of my dreams and plans.

But now there can be some progress moving in the right direction.

The weather was decent this morning and I got a good chance to check out the kitty up close and personal.

I am not sure how much the tub weighs with everything stripped off of it, but I hope I can lift it off the frame with my skidsteer.

Looks like the machine weighed about 7000# ready to go..
So without the engine, tranny, cab, rear axle, track frame..... and all the other crap that's bolted to it , it's got to be waaaaay lighter.

If I can manage the tub readily life will be great.

Going to narrow the tub 4 inches, narrow the track frame and axles 26 inches it looks like to get the beast so it can carry 36" tracks and be street legal.

Our Big Tex trailer is 102" wide, so no worries to transport the cat.

24" tub width
36" tracks with 3 inches between the inner belts and the tub.

102" the way I measure ???? 

I had posted many ideas in the past and most ideas are still on the table.

What has changed is this..

The plan is to drive the van onto the cat chassis...unbolt the tires/wheels and mount the van to the cat using the 4 hubs and lugs.

Remove the van drive shaft and swap in a custom Double double from an S10 extended cab.

Mounting an NP 241 Transfer case on end and use the front output to drive the box and use it as a drop box.

The OC12 will connect via a short shaft from the rear output of the NP241 AND LIFE should be good.

The little V6 in the Astro should propel the rig fine.

Going to be a cruiser and not a plowing/grooming buggy.

I have spent a bunch of time doing the math on the drive shafts, TCASE/DROP BOX and looked at the overall picture.

IT SHOULD WORK FINE.

A buddy who is an engineer for Boeing checked over my calcs and smiled.

We both mentioned....737 max    "IT SHOULD WORK"


i am very excited to finally find a cat that I could afford and that was not 3000 miles away.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Here is the NP241 with the adapter turned to place the (What will be the input)
at 5.750 inches to the right 

(Astro drive train is offset 5-3/4" to the right to allow foot room for the driver.

Already been working on the clocking ring to fasten the Adapter to the Tcase.

None made to do what I want/need...so we make one.

I am using the adapter for a 4L60 tranny....cheaper and it will get a bracket bolted to the 4 bolt end to allow a second mount.
Third mount under the rear output housing to assure the case will stay stable...

A lot of work lies ahead....

I can see many months of things to do without spending much in the way of extra $$$$$ .

Hopefully I can get the tub, frame and axles all finished through the summer.

Gonna be an outside project.
No room in the shop building large enough for the cat....


Hey

back in the day when I ran a groomer on the Mt.... I did run a 2100 a few times.

How do the track adjusters work ????

The 2100 is different than the Spryte.

Does the 2100 use a cylinder with grease in it to adjust the front axle ????

I can't see any adjusting bolt ??????

Any manuals available for a 2100B ??????


----------



## rdynes01

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Welcome back and best of luck with the project.But those pictures give new meaning to the words "basket case"


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

A real pile of scrap iron.....

But after crawling around it things look pretty good.

There is not the usual weld upon welds upon cracks.

The engine likely went away...as it's not there.
The tires are sketchy.

Front foam filled units seem like we can get some use out of them.

One hub lost the bearings, but the spindle seems fine....not chewed and somebody slathered it with grease (not all rusted)

Rear end is empty.

Likely had a cooler on it and was drained.

Going to get the diffy out and take a peek inside.

I hope that I can use it as is for a while....

Time will tell.

Yes....I real pile of goodies 


But I am just happy as a clam to get it..

I have been snooping for nearly 5 years to find a cat close by and affordable....

This old codger is about as happy as can be.

Like a kid at Christmas time.

JUST LOOK AT MY PILE OF SCRAP IRON


----------



## olympicorange

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

…..   congrats,....  this project will certainly keep you busy for awhile,... let the parts list begin,...


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

YES INDEED ON THE PARTS LIST..

Since the van is providing the controls, power train (Except the rear diffy) the list of parts is greatly reduced.

I have the bulk of the drive shaft parts to connect the vans tranny to the OC12

BIG JOB is narrowing up the tub, track frame and axles.

The tires are pretty sketchy.

Front filled ones will likely get us running.

The mid tires are mostly crap.

Sprockets will get us up through the maiden voyage...gonna need to be recovered sooner or later..

I will know a lot more once we get the beast home and tear all the unnecessary crap off it.

With a bit of luck maybe the blade, hydraulics, tilt cab and other goodies can find new homes and get back some of the $$$$ spent.

GONNA BE A DIRTY JOB STRIPPING THE CRITTER APART.

Fair weather stuff.

But...I knew what I was getting into when I decided to do this thing....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

My oldest grandson turned 13 just before Christmas....I am going to see if he would like to come out here to the ranch and spend a bit of time this summer off and on helping on the Van cat.

He is old enough now to learn a lot about such things as Welding, cutting, designing, fabricating and the how and why things work in the world of building machines.

He and his dad are resurrecting a 1990 Bronco at home now for his first rig.

I would love to teach him many of the things about building machine toys.

We had a daughter and she learned which end of the wrench to hang onto... but never really got into the innards of any of my old exploits.

I converted a big bus to a motor home back in the 80's but she was way to young (Born in 82)

The grand kid loves dirt bikes and such...

I am hoping he will be interested in the cat project.....

Having a little helper will be a lot of fun.....

Depending on his level of interest we may get him cranking the handles on the lathe and the mill..  

My dad got me into things at a very young age.....GO KARTS AND OTHER TOYS.


----------



## redsqwrl

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

I have chopped up and repurposed a 2100 or two, you will be able to slide and lift the tub as necessary, my skid steer is a older Gehl 4400 and it can lift more than it should and has no trouble.

Not much left when you empty them out.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

We have a Scat Trak 1300 with a big bucket.

Use it mostly for carrying horse poop to the pile and sawdust to the stable

Specs say the 4400 is 1150 capacity
Our Scat is 1300.....

That will make life much better.
I have not been able to get right up into the 2100 yet as its all lashed down on a trailer.

I figure that after getting the cab off, fuel and hyd tank, tranny  and everything else off that a wrench can get loose it should be fairly easy to handle.

Gonna set up ( 4) 24.5 truck wheels and shoot them in with the level scope..

Sit the tub down on top of the wheels.

Upside down.

Jig the tub using the axle and track frame holes with an extra set of holes 4 inches narrower.
Probably build the jigs out of flat bar or ????? thats handy.

Go after the tub with the Plasma and knock 4 inches out.

Realign the tub using the jigs and stitch it back up.

Do basically the same with the axles and track frame and then reassemble things using the tub as a build jig.

Be far easier in a shop with an overhead crane like I used back when I was in the machinery bizz.

We also have a WEEEEEE Tractor with a bucket..

Very handy...will lift 500 pounds ???

Some pix using the Scat and Little Red dismantling an M211 Deuce N 1/2

I have used the Scat to lift several pickup diesels out with my air chain fall.

I think the cat is gonna be a  fairly easy go after we prune it down.

The cab on the Deuce was a pain to get off.

My neighbor came over with his "Widdle Excavator" and we grabbed the cab with some straps and it came right off.

Mostly the elevation was the issue...

I was not cozy with having that cab as far out away from me and as high as it was and maybe UPSET things.

The roll up door behind the truck is my little machine shop and right where that truck is sitting is where the cat will sit during the tear down and refit.

Actually the cat will be stripped behind where the truck was and then after the tub and frame are separated....we will get the tub over by the front of the shop.

The cat will not fit in the one building with a slab floor


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

There is a hefty frame assembly on the rear of the cat that has a big cylinder on it.
Must have been for a groomer/drag/tiller

That bad boy looks heavy too.

I want to remove the sprockets before we unload the cat...the sprockets are usable...and I don't want to booger one up during the unloading.

The guys trailer is narrow and one set of wheels are hanging over the side and he stuffed timbers under the axles to rest it on.

I can just see a trashed sprocket happening real quick.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Can anyone tell me what the axle rating is on the torsion axles are for the 2100 packer??

Thanks


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Just some tech stuff for those interested.

With an actual Cat in my possession to be able to look at and get real time measurements I have been able to confirm my plans for the steering controls.

Air was the only simple way to add controls to the Astro and work within the constraints of the cockpit.

Also anything added MUST be able to come and go easily without major changes to the van.

The pressures needed to lock the bands can readily be achieved using a Number 9 air brake chamber (Big truck stuff)  Had many years as an owner operator and did most of my own work (Except major engine and really heavy stuff)

The #9 chambers can easily be adapted with a bracket on the rear of the OC12 to connect with the band actuators.

About 45 psi on the chambers will produce 405 pounds on the linkage.

This number was derived from a few cat owners that I was able to get info from.

Air is simple to plumb in and deal with... no oily mess if there is a leak 
Fix the leak and go on about your business.

Here is a picture of the steering control interface....



Simple alloy bracket that fastens easily to the steering wheel

****For the question....what about the air bag*****

It gets unplugged during CAT OPERATIONS

There was no real good way to get an air pump on the engine in an Astro

VIAIR makes some very nice 12 volt 100% duty cycle air pumps that are more than capable of supplying the air needed.

The interface fastens to the wheel with 3 heavy zip ties (Yes...hinky...but simple and easy on/off)

Nylon DOT air lines run from the front to the rear of the van.

The two spring loaded joy sticks control the air to the chambers/bands
Each delivery line will have a flow control to stop the bands from SLAMMING on.
A quick release valve will allow fast release.

There will be two pressure regulators on the pump/tank valve control panel (Behind the rear most seat)

The one regulator will deliver 45 psi to the pressure select valve (Not shown in piccy)

The second regulator will be adjusted to allow a lower pressure to the joy stick for making small steering corrections at speed (Adjust after the build to get the sweet spot)

The idea of a foot brake had always bothered me.

A neophyte driver could readily mash the brake and panic when nothing happens.

Decided to add a single circuit air brake treadle on a little bracket alongside the vans brake pedal arm (There is room in there )

A small bracket that fastens to the pedal arm will activate the treadle to allow the existing pedal travel to apply air to the air chambers through a pair of double check valves.

All other equipment will operate normally (Brake lights..yada yada yada)

This equipment can be removed within minutes when non cat operation is desired.

All the nylon air lines will bundle down past the RH side of the drivers seat and then down the LH side of the interior.

All lines will be of a different color (RED-GREEN-BLUE-YELLOW-ORANGE-BLACK)
Lines will couple to the control panel manifold with standard air line quick couplers (Just like we use on our air tools)

Lines from the Control center will attach to through hull fittings in the rear of the van body and then connect to the air chambers.

Quick release valves at each chamber to allow fast exhaust.
Flow controls on each line from the joy sticks to the chambers to stop bands being slammed.

Double check valves to allow the foot brakes to work separately of the joy sticks, and have the ability to vary the pressure from zero to a predetermined max pressure  (Likely the same as full turning pressure)

The foot brake will also allow a controlled braking for stopping without tossing passengers about as well as the on/off from the trailer.

Big picture is still to be able to CAT/DECAT the van in short order.

Drive the van onto the cat frame....remove the tires and wheels and attache using the lug studs/nuts with fabricated brackets.

Swap the stock drive shaft with the special longer two piece shaft that has 3 double cardan joints.

I have hopes that once we get the bugs out...that Cat'n up will take less than an hour....


Wishful thinking...maybe...we shall see.

Overall I want to be able to take the van off the Cat and within a short time head off grocery shopping.

The long term plan is to scare up a much nicer van for a permanent attachment...


After sketching out the air schematic....I am fairly confident it will work sweet.

And...all the parts are off the shelf stuff...much of it standard parts house items for big rigs....

Gonna be a while before much more happens with this stuff beyond what has been done.

The immediate work needs to be on cutting up the Packer and getting the tub and frame narrowed down.

Then the tracks gotta get narrowed up.

36" wide.

Probably add whatever is needed along side each center belt and cut the grousers and redrill.

We will go for symmetrical track to make life easy.

Gonna be a bastard no matter what....so lets make it a good one....

OH AND FOR THE QUESTION  "WHATS THE BLUE THING"   
It's a pool noodle Charlie Brown....
I hacked that chunk off one laying in the corner...A black one will replace it when I finish the Interface assembly.

ITS A HAND REST TO TO MAKE OPERATIONS COMFORTABLE.

The next question asked will be.

What about the ABS on the van and what will happen with the drive shaft running and the wheels not moving ????

Pull the ABS fuse and go on about the Cat'n business.

The ABS and air bag lights will come on the dash...BIG DEAL..


----------



## PJL

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Now I see, you are building the worlds only Astro Converti-Cat.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

ASTRO-PACKER
      2100 X


I originally planned on removing the suspension, front/rear, but after giving it a lot of thought it seemed like a better idea to just use the hubs/lug nuts and some easily fabricated brackets to anchor the van to the cat chassis.

Add a link at each corner to render the van suspension inert so the cat chassis will not twist with the vans suspension.

Yeah...Astro/convertacat....

The plan has morphed some since I got into doing this thing.

After getting a really good look at the Packer I decided that with the herky frame on that machine doing the convertible thing would be a breeze.

I would love to leave the Cat WIDE but I really want to be able to haul it.

We have this 25+5 Big Tex gooseneck trailer to haul toys with. (And horse hay)

The trailer is 102" wide across the deck....
No worries.

I still think that the little Astro Van on those huge azz tracks would look soooooo cool.

But being usable is far more important.

The green brush rig is the same one pictured earlier being dismantled.

The sucker was heavy too.

We hauled it down here from Sumner Washington

We wanted it because it had a viable title that matched the serial # on the truck.(Some get dummied up)

The Son in law is working on a repower with later model diesel power and modifying the cab...take two cabs and make a quad cab...

That's his toy.

The Pickup, trailer and the brush rig was way more weight than we thought......

The big dog handled it well though  (08 with the 6.7)


----------



## KickerM

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Thanks for the great info on the brake bands!  405#s?  I've been trying to devise a way to measure mine but without a compression scale I'm striking out, Your Air method sounds right in your wheelhouse, mine is electrical as I am trying to figure out an electric actuator set-up....but I've been lost on how many pounds of force I need! Thanks again!


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

The rigs like the Weasel and various Oliver crawlers of times gone past used just plain metal levers connected to the band actuator arms.

The mechanical advantage in their linkage gave the needed pressure to lock/slow down the band.

We had an Oliver OC4 crawler here at the ranch for years (Same rear box as the early Sprytes and Imp's

The lever did not require a lot of pressure to turn the cat...

I am not sure what you will use as far as an electrical actuator to apply the needed force.

I chose air because it is simple and parts can be purchased easily.

The brake chambers are available in various sizes (Square inch of the diaphram)  sizes  (Type) 9, 12,16, 20, 24, 30....30 is the most common rear air chamber on class 8 trucks.

My control center if you will has two pressure regulators mounted.

One (High pressure) will allow for a full hard application of the band.

The other is lower pressure to allow for much less application pressure to give a "Slight change" in direction

Both of the regulators are fully adjustable and have a gauge on them.

The nice part of the "on off" air valve will be that it will be nearly impossible to "drag" a band.

Some people get in the habit of dragging the bands (Like those who drag the brakes on their car)

Creates heat and wear the bands out.

I am curious about what you are using for an electric actuator.

Servo motor with axial piston ???

With the air the pressure can be tweaked up/down to suit the need.

Adding a flow control in the line from the joy stick can be used to "Soften" the application.

The pressure will be the same, but the speed at which the band is applied can be slowed down to avoid "Slamming"

The flow control has a one way check valve that allows the release to be free flowing back (Band will not be inclined to drag as the air slowly released from the air chambers)


Back many many years ago when I worked in the wood products bizz we used a lot of pneumatics on the various machines.

Air has issues, as does hydraulics, but I chose air simply because it is clean and a leak will not quickly leave you up to your butt in something messy and the rig not moving.

I have chosen a dual electric pump system to allow for one pump to do the work and the second pump to act as a back up "GET US HOME" UNIT.

Very few repair parts would be needed on board the cat to deal with an issue.

A couple spare diaphrams for the chambers.
Some nylon tubing and a few fittings and a handful of wrenches.

Ya can't plan for every possibility... but vital items can at least be given a bit of thought.

Steering is nice


----------



## redsqwrl

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

any thought of running your second compressor off the drive shaft?

Primary air system becomes secondary after you mover a bit. and a secondary air system the is d shaft mounted might actually unload the electrical system,

Just thinking outside of the square


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## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

I have flirted with that thought....

Look at the piccy.

This is the  NOW drop box.

The 700R4 adapter is only there to be used as a mounting point.

The has been a plan to simply bolt a plate over the opening.

The normal input internal spline is standard TH400 4L80 

Be very easy to machine the plate to fit the register and add a flange bearing to it

Mount a twin cylinder compressor (Craig's list) ahead of the drop box.

Should be an easy do.

Use the Electric compressor/s to fill the tanks for a "Dead start" and then let the drive shaft mounted unit deal with the air while moving.

Have to set the pump controller up to simply unload the compressor as it will still be turning.

I am not sure what speed most compressors actually run and then make sure the rotation is right.

It is a possibility that this could be a great idea.

The Astro van has zero room for an engine mounted unit.

Just too tight.

An Aluminum/rubber coupling would run the compressor fine.

Being down in the tub things will be somewhat protected.

A remote air filter to keep out water and dirt should be an easy go too.

Yessssss..definitely would help on the electric use.

I have thought about a bigger alternator....
A compressor with a oil filled crank case would be sweet...
Twin cylinder  12 cuft would suffice.

Definitely a plan to consider.

Easy to connect via a stainless braided HOT SIDE tubing and then a  regular braided hose to a quick connect to the inside tank.

Put the female coupler in on the tank and just the open male on the compressor hose

Maybe even add a cooler in the feed line to get rid of some of the heat.

Water is always the bane of any air system...


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Speed of the compressor could possible be an issue.

Maybe offset mount the pump slightly away from the drive shaft input to the drop box and drive it with a cog belt 

Gear the ratio down to about 1/4 shaft speed.
Drive shaft likely going to be running at 2500 RPM or ???? depending on what you are doing.

What ever we use has to be self contained as far as oiling and cooling.
Free air cooling should be OK

My one worry about running a belt drive would be getting snow, dirt and debris into the belt arrangement.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Some gum shoe and bingo.

The YORK AC compressors used on a lot of older rigs (Ford) work sweet as an air pump.

Go the stub shaft route off the drop box and drive the York with a serp belt.

Easy to rig up a tensioner pulley.

The York can handle a lot of speed too...so running at 2500 RPM is no sweat.

Standard pressure switch to cut the power to the clutch.

The pumps should be easy to find.....

Maybe a way to go.

Got lots of work on the old packer to do before this becomes an issue...


----------



## olympicorange

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

….   sounds like quite a unique project S/R,...  looking forward to the progress /pics.    most of your old big rig air compressors run at engine speeds (1800/2500) rpm's.  with the ''unloader'' circuit hooked up, the a/c only cycles between 60-120 psi, then opens & freewheels , till needed again.   if you could  adapt a/c to t/f case splined shaft, with a splined adapter to match each shaft, then you wouldn't have to worry about belt slippage/failure, etc.  you wouldn't need a support brg.   you would need an a/c that is ''closed'' in the front, not open for oil to case drain out the front, as in the truck application. truck a/c's are oil pressure fed off the oil galley, and case drained, back to oil pan.  so a custom oil pan /reservoir  , for the bottom of a/c, remove flat plate , for ''splash'' oiling/cooling be sufficient.  or an electric sump pump to pressure lube top-end of a/c, plumbed into new oil pan, etc... lot's of options ….


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## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

I ran class 8 heavy haul dump trucks for years.

Every air pump was bolted to the front gear case (Cat power) and was supplied force fed oil off the engine and the compressor drained back to the gear case out the drive end of the pump.

Water cooling was also supplied to the compressor head.

The 4x4 guys use the YORK A/C pumps as air pumps and they seem to do well.

I am liking the idea of a belt drive and using the electric clutch on the compressor..

IF the pump dies.....the belt will fail and not tear up things.

Having the electric clutch on the pump will make life easy as well..

Pretty easy to install an unloader/check valve in the tank to control the shaft driven pump.

Having the electric pump will certainly be desirable to charge the system from a dead start....

Also be handy if the shaft driven GIZMO fails.

Some guys are using the A6 Frigidaire pumps off older GM rigs.

These are a tough pump with cast iron cylinders (6) and will pump huge amounts of air.
They have an oil sump too.

I got out yesterday afternoon hoping to get the cat home (Sitting in a pond on the trailer...4 inches of wet slop we must back through to get the truck in there....)

Gotta wait for the weather to cooperate more.

I did get some more peeks into the rear frame/tub area ahead of the OC12

My Micky mouse drop box will be able to sit down in the tub just ahead of the OC12

Looks very promising that there will be enough room on the LH side of the tub right alongside the drop box to mount the compressor.

May need to do some rearranging of the frame work in that area though.

The Cat has a heavy tube platform/frame that a big azz cylinder is mounted bolted to the rear area.

Since my application is only for a cruiser....all the heavy rigging in the rear is not needed.

Should be plenty of room to get things snuggled in there.

I am thinking that we are going to need to butch some fairly large round access holes in the tub near the area where the drop box will mount and up near where the vans tranny (Rear output) is located to allow access to the drive shaft.

THE PLAN is top be able to run the van up a pair of temporary channel ramps and locate it on the cat frame....

Until I can get the van and the packer close to each other and do some measuring I can't do much more than speculate....but the idea looks good.

I have a complete two piece drive shaft from an S10 Extended cab with double cardan joints on both ends of the rear shaft..
Thinking seriously about adding another double cardan joint where the front shaft plugs into the 4L60 tranny....

This menagerie of goodies called a drive shaft will allow rules to be broken in a big way.

GM used the "Double Double" setup to fix issues with the layout on the extended pickup..

They were a failure....

Issue being that the center ball of the CV unit was usually never greased..

Once the ball wears out the CV started to wobble and will vibrate badly...

The shaft I got was bad, but not destroyed.
The centering ball was shot and the grease passage was totally devoid of grease....not one bit..and the ball and its socket were dusted dry.

I have the rear shaft all repaired and ready to go.
Not sure yet on the overall length needed in the cat, so just cooling my heals until a time when we can see exactly where stuff will end up.

The length of the cat, location of the diffy, wheel base of the van and probable  spot the van chassis will end up all seem to indicate that the van may be able to be moved a bit fore/aft to be able to get the parts to all talk to each other without a lot of trouble...

I will need to mount a REMOVABLE bracket to hang the center carrier bearing for the driveshaft as well.

Must be removable to allow the van to drive over the cat frame to mount it...

The Astro drive train is offset to the RIGHT 5.750"  this creates issues...hence the drop box and the weird shaft set up.

I am still trying to stay with as much off the shelf parts as possible

The OC12 uses a 1410 u joint on it's input yoke.

The plan is a short shaft plugged into the slip yoke on the output of the drop box (NP241) with a 1350 slip yoke and u joint at the case end

(Setup maybe a foot long max)

If all goes as planned the drop box may wind up being just ahead of the vans rear diffy.

Once the tires/wheels are off and the chassis is lowered into position and the hub mounts are attached, the drop box input hopefully will be close to the same elevation as the vans pinion shaft...


A lot of WHAT IF's at this point... but the preliminary measurements look promising.

The big V8 power and auto tranny that was in the Packer (Plus pumps etc) was heavy and far forward.

The Astro powerpack is a lot lighter....so this certainly should allow some discretion on locating the van fore and aft on the cat chassis.

I do not want it nose heavy..
BUT.....I may well need to run things forward some to allow all the goodies to fit.

The only other Astro I have seen on a cat was on a 3700 hydro and the van had it's power pack removed and they used the Cats power.


Just a lot to think about.

Lots of engineering to make sure things can/will work and that we don't end up with an issue here and there.

The more room we have the better life will be.....
I am just sitting here chomping at the bit wanting the cat home.....

Oh well.

Pix of the Doble double shaft.

Getting the centering ball off the little stub requires a special tool.....

$300 special Kent Moore tool... remover and installer

Found one on ebay for $12  

The shaft uses readily available Saginaw 3R CV JOINTS/PARTS

With the proper tools these bad boys are a snap to rebuild.

The one shot of the ball that LOOKS LIKE A PEAR   Supposed to be round
No grease being the cause.

With some care in locating the shaft it should run smooth.

Luckily the shaft was still in factory trim and had not had the plastic melted to remove the  u joints...marked everything well before the tear down...
Balance should be fine.

The front shaft tube will need to be cut and a CV installed...so it may need to be balanced.

We can get this RUBE GOLDBERG together and do some testing and react accordingly.

Sort of like building a boat in a basement I guess...need to be sure we can get it out the door.. 

Couple pix of the Slam bang We had up until I retired in 2012


----------



## Snowcat Pat

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Snowy, I just got your message, to answer your OC-12 question. 

The center case width is 16.625 inches gasket to gasket (varies a little, # stamped on the back, used for carrier bearing setup), but,

The top of the case where the lid goes is a skosh wider than 17 inches.

-Pat


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Pat.

Thank you much for the reply.

Since I sent that mssg to you I got close to my cat with a tape measure and paper and pencil.

When I sent the message I had only seen it in pictures.

Going to be no sweat to narrow the tub up to 24" wide.

I may have to get a tad creative with the brackets that hold the center section...but there is room.

The only spot that's going to take outside help is getting the axle shafts cut and the splines recut.

Fella up in Portland says he can do it without annealing and re-heat treat.

13" gotta come out of each one.

Not sure if he grinds them in, or uses an EDM ????

I will machine a tube/sleeve for the axle tubes and locate them after the tub and track frame are done.

Cut the axle tubes to length and weld them up....easy job....

Do you know if the Tilt cab and hydraulic (grease) track tensioner's were a "C" model thing on the packers ????

I have snooped all over and can't find much info.....

Thanks


----------



## Snowcat Pat

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Well we are both wrong on the steering cylinder pressures. The page 8 of the 2100 manual says,and I quote,

 "This pressure should be set at 400 psi for best all around results."

-Pat


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Copy that...

Thanks for looking in the book.

It would seem that there are some materials floating around that are in error.

Anyway..
No worries...A type 24 air brake chamber can easily dish out the needed PUSH @ 50-66 psi

The factory specs are no doubt designed to handle the heavy weight of the 2100 plus the tools it would be carrying ...BLADE, GROOMER ETC.....

This would be " Best all around results"

My cut down version with narrower tracks and no tools should not require as much pressure to get the job done.

Easy to work the pressures up and see how things behave.

As long as the turning is satisfactory it will be fine.

With the numbers I was able to calculate for the Spryte with a manual steering system this all seems to fall into line.

Again...thank you for the data and taking the time to look...


----------



## redsqwrl

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

wake me up when you get to the axle shortening part. I have access to EDM, but save it for the important stuff like snow trac sprockets....

I have two pair to narrow and I am dragging my feet on the how, what too,


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

I am going to shorten the tubes myself, and then let the axle guys deal with the shafts


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

All the chassis chopping gonna be pretty mundane stuff.

Dirty, nasty, stinky (burning paint)

I am looking forward to getting the tub off so I can hit it with my big LANDA hot washer.

180 F @2000 psi will do a real job on the grunge...

After it's clean...then the plasma will go after the tub....4 inches out of it...


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Got out to the cat again today (Still very mucky where its sitting...need a bit more time to drain the swamp)

Did some looking up  forward in the old engine bay.....
Going to be lotssa room in that area to mount the air compressors, tank and other goodies.

I had originally planned on putting that stuff in the rear of the van behind the last seat..

NOPE ...going to put it up forward and probably add some metal to the belly pan to close that area all in.

THIS WILL GET THE NOISY COMPRESSORS out of the van and actually easier to get power to and I can keep most of the Colored air lines and such in the tub.

There will still be a bundle of colored nylon air lines that will be inside to feed from the joy sticks at the drivers area to the rear of the van.

Going to add an air brake treadle valve along side the vans brake pedal arm and actuate it withe a bolt on arm/roller assembly that will simply bolt to the pedal arm (Easy to set up and remove)

After I got back I sat down and did the air schematic.

Sorry for not making it all readable from one side..... Oh well.  It may change before we actually start running tubing and mounting the valves.

All standard air brake components that can be had at any parts house that deals with class 8 trucks,.

R6 Relay valves (2)
DC4 Double check valve
Type 24 brake chambers
Brake treadle valve (Several types will work fine)

Colored DOT nylon air line

With the treadle valve to control the foot brakes...having the double check valve and all will allow the brakes to be applied gently if need be and the pressure ramp'd up if required.

The joy sticks will operate at around (65 psi) For hard turns and much lower for corrective turning if you're booking it.... (2) position air control valve shuttles either high or low pressure air from the tank to the joy sticks... (Controls on the steering wheel mounted setup)

`The control valve for the pressure control is a 2 position lever valve NON SPRING RETURN
The joy sticks for steering are a N/C 2 position spring return valve 3 port type.



BLUE
YELLOW
RED
GREEN
ORANGE
BLACK

Dual 5 gallon tanks
(2) VIAIR 100% duty cycle pumps
Likely a drive shaft operated compressor "For the road" 


Every time I get close to the cat I get more ideas.....
C'mon drier weather


----------



## olympicorange

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

……..  Hello S/R,..  I see you have a ''trolley'' valve in the schematic ,... always a handy feature,....   what model /and location …  ''Air Dryer''  are you planning on using ,....    ejecting all oils/moisture saves a lot of headaches down the road .    I have a model unit assy. I like to use , …  compact & easy to service.  ……     i'm curious about the driveline drive system,....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Hey..
If you are referring to the FOOT brake ???

That is a standard single circuit TREADLE/FOOT valve that is activated by the brake pedal arm in the van.

With the stock van brakes still fully functional the pedal will function...turn on the brake lamps etc.

There is a small bracket that mounts to the pedal arm and pushes on the valve plunger.

This was a simple yet effective way to have full pressure control from 0 to 65 PSI to control the brakes in a varying degree for easy smooth stops without harsh applications.

AS far as the Filter drier goes.

The Regulators shown in the sketch are actually filters as well.

This system is going to evolve as things progress.
I have looked at moisture ejectors, desiccant driers and other air management items.

I wanted to get the basic schematic on paper to be able to look at it and see just how it all looks when it's right in front of me and not just ideas....

Coming from an engineering and machinery building background I like to get ideas on paper and beat things around.

Saves a lot of $$$ in the long haul.

I am sure things will evolve more as we go.


The drive shaft thing.

Actually very simple.

Having the van as a CAT ADD ON....The van chassis is going to sit as close to the top of the 2100's TUB as possible and anchor via the wheel studs to the cat with 4 fabricated mounts.

The Cat differential is quite a bit lower than what can be connected with any realistic driveshaft.

(The van must remain totally intact....so it can roll off the cat and go shopping in a matter of a short time)

So....a drop box was needed to get the drive lines such that acceptable angles and other drive shaft geometry adhered to.
Main shaft has 2 cv joints with a 3rd CV on the front section (2 piece shaft)  The shaft that connects the drop box and the OC12 has a 1410 at the OC12 and a 1350 at the slip yoke in the drop box  (Shorty shaft...about a foot long)

An NP241 transfer case stood on end set into the cat chassis just ahead of the OC12 will give us the ability to use the (What was) the front output flange as our input and the original output slip yoke as the output to the OC12.

The shaft elevation has dropped 10 plus inches.

Now....

The original input has the adapter bolted to it and clocked to place the input at the needed 5.750" offset to the RH side

The original input (32 spline) is sitting there doing nothing.

A plate added to the front of the adapter with a flange bearing can easily support a stub shaft plugged into the old input coupler spline...

An air compressor mounted along side the the drop box can be run easily with a pulley off the stub shaft  from the drop box...

A re-purposed crank shaft pulley and a tad bit of machining can easily get the compressor capable of operating at drive shaft speed.

Slow crawling may not do all we need in the way of providing air, but it will sure help when traveling at any speed.

The electric pumps are going to be the backbone of the air system though....


Here is a piccy of the 241 case sitting just about in the position it will be when it is finished.

Case will be run in the 4H position to engage the front flange.  (There will be no low range, as this is only between the input and outputs with the original design...we are simply using the box to transmit power through and drop the elevation)

Yes...all the power will pass through the chain in the 241

After doing some serious checking on what that chain can handle power wise...and speaking to one of the major case builders...

It was determined that there are other places in the system that could likely be "A FUSE" before the chain goes away..

The 241 cases have been beaten horribly over the decades by many off road freaks with huge engines and they have lived well...sooooooooooooo  I believe that the little Chevy V6 will likely not break too much....at least not without someone getting insane with things.

Many hours spent looking at the various concepts and going over the engineering.

Will this thing work ????? MAYBE...IT SHOULD


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Things have taken a great turn.

We have a week of decent weather coming up and the plan is to get the Cat home next Sunday.

I have help with the haul too.

Son in law is going to haul the cat with his Dodge diesel and I will haul the rest of the crap on my trailer behind my Suburban.

The tracks, blade mount and sundry other loose junk.

With any luck I will have pix of this bad boy sitting in my yard soon....

Then the fun can commence..

Been a long wait for sure.

At least we don't have a looooooong road trip to deal with....


----------



## Thefatsquatch

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

This is a pretty sweet project!  I had to do mine on a budget too, but that meant I had to do a LOT more labor. For instance to widen the tracks, I had to drill 1036 holes in chromoly grousers, and rubber belts. That's a whole bunch of bolts.  The only thing I would consider is narrowing the tunnel, so you can get a decent flotation factor without being over-width.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

After a fair bit of calcs.... I need a 24" tub....66" center to center on the wheels and 36" on each track   102" OAW

Wider would be sweet....butttttttttttttttttttt PERMITS
WE HAVE A 102" WIDE BIG TEX TRAILER 25 FOOT DECK   

Using the van pretty much stock takes a huge amount of work away as the van is totally functional now.

Power windows, Power mirrors, AC, Stereo...comfortable seating for 8 ...can't ask for more.
The old red van is a bit of a roach....but I only paid $1500 and drove it home back in Feb 17

The Van power train will connect to the cat via a custom set of 3 driveshafts and the modified NP241 tcase (Drop box)

The cat is basically an add on accessory to the van.

A different van of similar year could be swapped onto the cat and the Air system and other goodies all hooked up and off ya go....

Plan calls for a couple over head type bars up and over to mount flashing led light bars, LED white LIGHTEMUPS ALL THE WAY AROUND

All a bolt on system.

Unhook, unbolt and roll the van off and put the wheels back on....go shopping....all within an hour or so (After we gitter dialed in)

With the 3 foot tracks this little beast will take me anywhere I want to go....
Not planning on pushing a mile of powder.....

3 foot tracked Sprytes do really well....so this hybrid Franken cat should do great.......

Very little hard work.....once the narrowing is done, it's prime time baby ...

I can machine nearly anything I need in house....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

THE BIG PACKER IS HOME

The son in law showed up here at the ranch at 9 am and we headed off to Molalla, Oregon to get the kitty.

WE were there at about 10 and met the seller, his dad  and set about getting the trailer hooked up.

The trailer had sunk in the soft dirt where it had been sitting for 3 years....

Big Dodge would not budge the trailer....just dug 4 big azz holes trying.

Grandpa went and got a large 4x4 tractor and hooked onto the big dog..

Things happened then.

The track (only got one.....another story) and the blade mount were in a small trailer behind the guys service truck...

We had to use his onboard hoist to put the track and other goodies on my trailer.

Add to the mix, one trailer tire on the cat trailer was shot (California wheels)

The seller swapped out the tire/wheel quickly....

We got the outfits lashed down and all ready to hit the road.

The cat was already loaded, but it would have been nice if it had been about a foot or so farther forward....a tad light on the draw bar....

Tony mentioned the tail was trying to wag the dog a bit.

We ran about 45 MPH max back to Newberg.

Stopped in town briefly at the cardlock to fuel the Dodge...a power outage had knocked out the cardlock sooooooooooooo...gotta catch Tony for the fuel to drag my toy home.....


The deal was sweet, the people were absolutely fabulous to deal with and ever so helpful.

Trip out and back was uneventful.....


Here are the piccy's


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

More trip pics


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

More trip pics.

I am the old fool with the gray T shirt and short sleeve biker jacket.

The weather was wretched this morning, but by the time we got to Molalla the skies cleared and we got the work done and the cat home without getting wet.

It was a bit chilly....but we stayed dry.

I was worried about the swamp the cat was sitting in (On the trailer) presenting us with much grief.... but having the big 4x4 tractor to give a tiny helping hand...all was good......


----------



## PJL

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

A one track cat?  Can you get the other track?


----------



## Jim_S RIP

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*



PJL said:


> A one track cat?  Can you get the other track?



I assume she’s doing a Paul Harvey and we’ll hear “the rest of the story” after the next commercial.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

AND NOOOOOOW...The rest of the story.......

The fella I got the Cat from bought this beast from some guy in Lapine, Oregon a few years ago.

They got the trailer loaded and just did not have enough room for the second track... simply no room.

So over the course of a few days, turned to weeks, turned to months many phone calls were made and remade with tons of phone tag and a firm time and date to come pick up the track could not be reached.

Andy (Fella I bought from) said he finally got tired of chasing his tail..

Too far to drive back over the Mt's if he could not contact the guy as the place was locked up with a herky azz gate.


Soooooooooooooooo...

Andy tells me that the guys phone number just goes to voice mail and no return calls.

Been 3-4 years now.....

I think we will have to consider it a lost cause....

Sad deal...even so....pretty good pile of parts to work with.


That's it folks...

Those tracks are so heavy that I am thinking that building a complete set of lighter custom tracks will be a better plan.

Generally speaking "A Spryte track" only long enough to fit the 2100.

Maybe full width grousers....At this point I am not sure and it's way too soon to get my panties in a knot over the tracks.

Actually, the track thing can wait until the frame and such is done.

I am sure that all sorts of great ideas will be offered from the crew here, and I am all ears 


The first order of business after I get shed of this nasty Flu bug is to get this mess unloaded and return Andy's trailer.

Depending on how I feel here in a while I wan t to get the one track off my trailer and unhook the unit.

Then the tedious task of wiggling the cat off the trailer is next.

With the one side hanging off the deck and resting on timbers it's gonna be a bit of a issue.

I want to soak the nuts on the sprockets this morning and get the sprockets off...

Last thing we need to do is FUBAR one of them suckers while dragging that beast off.....

The sprockets are usable.....but thats about all I will say.....some teeth have some cracks.....

They can be recovered with new urethane.....but not now.

The build can be completed and things tested before the sprockets have to be reworked......


----------



## Thefatsquatch

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

I just went from a 30"wide track to a 44" track (that's the size of each grouser on your wide track) for flotation. I did it by replacing every other grouser with a grouser from a single wide track. Bought one track, made two. However, that means I have all those short grousers left.
Re-drilling the rubber was a piece of cake once I discovered paper-drills. So handy, and cheap!  Re-drilling the grousers was neither. About 70 hours of drilling and a thousand dollars of drill bits.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

My wide track is 57" across.
The grousers are offset every other one  at 43" long..

Drilling....CARBIDE 

Most hardware store bits are carbon steel. JUNK   GOOD FOR WOOD

Minimum to use is high speed steel, then cobalt, and then the big daddy  CARBIDE


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Well now.

An entire day ACTUALLY WORKING ON "MY CAT"  NOT just dreaming about it.

Got dirty too.....

Opened the oil drain on the Diffy...very sad deal....Rusty water and oily slop.

Not much though...A pint or so

Got the sprockets off.

Tried to rotate the axles....NO GO

Crawled up and get to the drive shaft u joint and got a bar on it.

Reefed on that and finally got the thing to wiggle some.

Got a big azz bar on the axles studs...then some pipe....more reefing....then a little pop....things broke loose and the axles turn.

Likely things have a bit of rust (Bands....rear driveshaft brake ???)


I do hope that this thing has not rusted bad....that will suck.

At the least the sucker has gotta come apart.

Probably new bearings through it and clean everything..

The last diffy like this I was into was an OC6 crawler when I was in High School.... 1969  a loooooooooooong time ago..

But since the planetary's turn easy.....hope its not too bad.

I rebuilt a set of tandems in a PETE dump truck I bought back in 1990

The SQHD'S WERE FULL OF WATER

BAD UGLY
BUT......CLEANED THEM UP.....REPLACED THE BEARINGS....all good.

Ran that truck for 2 years and then bought a newer rig...

I was really bummed seeing that rusty slop.


One hub was off...bearings trashed....inner races still on the spindle.

Took a 5 pounder and a good chisel and knocked them bad boys off the spindle.

Shaft is fine....seal surface will need a bit of polishing and a speedy sleeve with sealant compound.....Good as new.

Hub is gross, but will be fine  with a good cleaning and new races..

The front axle LEFT SIDE took a NUKE HIT it looks like.

Gonna chop all the out and do an inner sleeve and weld in some new tube.

Far enough back that it will not bother the flex rubber when I weld it.....

The rest of the frame/axles look good.

Where the diffy bolts on at the outer flanges the ears are sad.

Gonna need some loving there too....

So far this is all I see...

Hard usage me thinks.

While I am on the monkey deck I spot this fine POS of a hack job where some clown used a house door bottom sill plate with rubber and hung it up on the headache rack to hold an oil cooler.

NOW THAT IS A CLASS ACT ....OMG


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Got the skidsteer and the wee tractor into the act too.

Skid steer handled the track lift handily...

Got the blade off the right side and on the ground..


The slide stop plates on the grousers had bolts welded to them ?????? WHY

Two cute little tires/wheels 
Laying on the monkey deck....came with the beast....maybe somebody needs these at their house ?????

Small cat tires ?????  4.80x8


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

All in all...It was a fabulous day.....

Got the cat ready to come off the trailer when the kid come back up.

Gonna stick a long 4 x 6 under the RH side of the axles..
Hit the timber with some water to slick it up and grab the cat with the Skid steer and drag it off on the ground  PLOP////// 

The old skid steer has held many an engine being swapped into rigs here.

Bought it new in 1996..been a fabulous machine.....

Big ol bucket is about shot from hauling horse poop... RUST...RUST...RUST

Scat Track was the best machine I could find at the time..

Longitudenal engine. Kubota
Battery under the foot tray
Easy access to everything.

Climb steep with empty bucket and not roll over backwards... yes I TRIED....

Great day playing with my cat....far too long of a wait though


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

A few pix of the Scat doin the lifting on a deasel engine going back into the Dahoooooley truck...

Great tool....Skid steer is like a swiss army knife.......


----------



## KickerM

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

I’m guessing the bolts were welded on the side plates of your grousers for a poor version of an ice cleat/stud....


----------



## Thefatsquatch

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Awesome progress!!
I ran into problems finding the same axles. The new 3500 pound axles seem to all step down to 1 1/16 on the outside of the taper, where these don't seem to.  You are definitely more confident that me on the fabrication side of things!  I am excited to watch this!


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Kicker

HMMMMMM, if the bolts were meant to be ice studs they certainly could have found a better way.

With that....I think somebody else torched them off flush....




Squatch

Well I spent a lotta years in the wood products machinery building business.

Welding, fabricating, machining

I guess I look at things differently than some.

We have folks here at the forum that have/are doing fabulous work on their cats.

My limitation now is age and health.....  oh...and $$$$$

The body says..NO WAY....and the mouth says NO PROBLEM.

Anyway....and so here we go...



After 5 strokes and a go round with kidney cancer back in 2012 kicked my azz, my giddyupgo is a lot slower now

I have a simple little formula I use for most projects..

WHAT DO WE NEED TO DO ?
WHEN DO WE NEED TO DO IT ?
HOW MUCH OF IT DO WE NEED ?

May sound over simplistic..... but not really.

If you look at the entire project it can seem overwhelming .....but when ya step back and take a deep breath and look at it in small chunks....it allows ideas to come together far easier without the total scope of the project getting in the way.

For example.

Yesterday afternoon after the tools were put away I grabbed a lawn chair, scratch pad, pencil and a tape measure.....then just went over and sat down and started scoping out how I want to repair the front axle....and what the best way to narrow up the main frame is going to be...... Where to cut and such, trying to judge the best choices that will result in the best end result.

Then while snooping I found some of the ugliness left by the last crew....GAWD....


Until I get a good plan down on paper and the numbers look good in real time....the torch and the plasma stay in the shop... 

Measure many times, cut once..


Repairing a preexisting design to bring it back to life is one thing, taking some things that were never meant to be together and molding them into the FRANKEN CAT is quite another...

I love to repurpose stuff....this can save mega $$$$$ when a little "imagineering" is applied...

OFF THE SHELF TECH IS THE TICKET..

Our good friends with the Tuckers see the results of proprietary thinking all the time.

I want to be able to get a part at the local corner Auto parts house, not have to wait for a large manufacture somewhere to ship me what I want....

Although I love ebay.....many top notch parts that would be available at the parts house can be had much much cheaper.

For instance...the Double cardan u joint components for my special drive shaft....
ebay for 1/4 the cost locally.....BUTTTTTTTTTTT....in a pinch when you are broke down....the local guys will have what ya need.


Another pet bitch I have.

IF IT SAYS "SNOW CAT" ON IT.....YER GONNA GET HOSED FOR $$$$$$$

Like track belting....
Yes there is good stuff, better stuff and then there is the stuff that some outfit says is the only thing that will work....BULL SNORT..

After looking over the track yesterday...

Save one belt for the length and hole pattern.....cannibalize the thing for the tire guides and start from scratch....build what I WANT....

At present the plan is looking like a 2 belt 36" wide full width grouser setup.

The design used on the Thiokol 601 seems like an idea worth consideration.

Doing some sketching on an idea for the tube grousers.

A simple step design drilling a 3/8" hole through the tube and then drilling the top out to 1/2" .... insert a sleeve to carry the clamping force to the lower part of the tube without crushing the tube..  a washer between the bolt head and the tube to spread the force.

This is going to take a bunch of time to do...but tubing is relatively inexpensive..

A drill jig will make this a walk in the park....do the critical layout and such once and then toss in a tube and drill the holes..

I think a set of these (one track) can be done in a day....maybe

4 bolts on each belt.....2 bolts to mount the tire guides    10 bolts each grouser....72 grousers    720 bolts per track.

1-1/2" tube    12 foot lengths  18 lengths of tube   4 grousers per length....

I can see an abrasive chop saw in my future..... Harbor Freight here we come.

Cutting this many tubes in my band saw is not a hobby...it's a career... noooooooooooooooooo..

The original belt lacers from the one track will/should suffice to make 2 tracks.

Just locate the stock units in the center and do it.

MAY WANT TO GO WITH WIDER LACERS ????? WE WILL SEE



A barrel of bolts from the wholesaler across town.....Far cheaper than dealing with the hardware store.....get them by the pound...

The backer plates on the inside ???? may use aluminum channel to reduce the weight.????

Looking quite feasible and far less expensive than buying new tracks.

Looking at the belt widths for a 2 belt system... using 12" wide belts may be an easy find and the tracks MAY end up a smidge wider than 36"

Will need to see how this shakes out before we narrow the frame.

GOTTA STAY AT 102" WIDE

May need to drop the tread width a touch....
More measuring, more calcs.

If I don't have to cut the belts I am gonna be a very happy camper.......indeed.....

And so here we go......






.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

This bad boy will save tons of band saw blades and time..

https://www.harborfreight.com/14-in-35-hp-heavy-duty-cut-off-saw-61481.html

If it cuts enough tubes for what we need....it's paid for itself....Golden...


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Design ideas sound great.....

I looked at the weight on the box tube idea    holy crap batman.... wayyyyyyy toooooooooo heavy.

Gotta go with channel... 

The tube was hitting the scales at 1300 plus for one track.....wrong plan.

We need half that or less.......


----------



## Thefatsquatch

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

I think I weighed my grousers at 13 pounds for the 30” ones and 22 pounds for the big boys.  Times 74, plus belting and a hundred pounds of bolts..  right about 1300 pounds each.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

The son in law came over and we took the kitty off the trailer...

I was worried that we might have issues getting it off since it was on timbers on the right hand side.

Tony hooked up his truck to hold the trailer.

I gave the cat a little nudge and the sucker was off of the trailer in a heart beat.
Down off there just a CHITTEN and A FOGGIN..  WOW.....

Brought the van over and introduced them...no hissing and spitting....seems they are cool..

The Astro is a nice size for the Packer frame....

Will be just about even front and back........

Now we gotta start pruning off all the crap.

About 600# in that huge rear groomer mount.....

All sorts of crap left stuffed into the engine bay.

Anyway... more pix


----------



## Thefatsquatch

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Oooh! I am envious!  Your hydraulic priority splitter is externally mounted!  Mine is under the cab inside the tunnel. Hopefully I don't have to adjust it. That seems to be about the right size and shape!


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Well now...

All the brackets for the blade are bolt on items.
One has been partially welded but that's an easy removal.

AS soon as I get over this flu crud I want to get the cab off.

The hinge has been tacked on in a couple places....

I need the cab off to get at all the innards of the tub.

This beast is a mess...years of pine needles, pop cans  and things ya likely do not want to know what it is all lurking in the belly.

I want to get the rear groomer mount off ASAP so I can pull the lid off the Diffy and get a look in there.

With what ran out of the drain hole....I am nervous about what may be lurking inside .....


But at least I was able to get the diffy moving.

These suckers were not designed with ease of maintenance in mind for sure....

The headache rack has got to come off, as does the fuel tank and all things back there


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

OK FOLKS
Sniffing around the cat and looking at the carnage that is two of the wheels.

12 inch with 5 on 5-1/2 bolt pattern....wasssssup with this odd duck

I need to replace two of the steel wheels...the lug nuts look to have come loose and the holes are trash.

ANY suppliers for the steel wheels ??????


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Well...Not much going on today.

Gotta take the P O'S trailer back Saturday... so the trailer is in the way of moving the cat.

Decided to crawl into the cab and take a seat.

Made some SNOWCAT noises  

Soon as the trailer is gone I plan on moving the cat over in front of the shop door to make getting air and tools easier without all the walking.

The better I'm feeling after this crud gets better...the more excited I am getting about wrenching on the cat.....

Can't wait to get all the extra junk pruned off and start cleaning out the tub.

A good washing out with the big Landa hot washer should make things way easier to work on...

The 8 inches of  pine needles and muck in the belly is nasty....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Spent a while looking at the ghastly mess that was once the front axle.

Here are the pix

The LH front wheel is tilted in at the top enough that it is very noticeable.

Axles have to be narrowed up a total of 26"...

I am going to just cut the axle off inboard of the inner rubber flex suspension and replace the entire center section.

I ran a long straight edge down the main frame rails andd they look great

Does not appear to be any issues with the hydraulic track adjuster .

The end flanges on the axle may need a bit of welding....but nothing really terrible


I am thinking that the plan should be to get the frame narrowed and and all the other axles cut off and welded back together...and then fit the front axle back in so it slips into the frame tube easily..



Yanking that axle out and getting it into a press would have made pretty short work of the bend..

Even using a 4 foot chunk of railroad iron to strong back the beast and a 20 ton hydraulic jack....would have been far better than this train wreck....

I am just real happy that the main side frames were not hurt....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Now with the Previous owners trailer out of the way and lovely weather this afternoon I decided to grab the Scat Trak and a chain and see if kitty would cooperate and move easily around in front of the garage door so I can get air and tools to things easily and not need to walk all day long.

Grabbed hold of the Packer and reefed on it and the Scat was able to give me good steerage...I think we were at the limit of lift on the Scat though....felt like it was standing on tippy toes a time or two... 

Walked it right around by the door..

A am pleased......


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

Looking at these 12 inch wheels with the 5 on 5.5 pattern.

Who's dumb idea was this ????

This locks you in to buying SNOW CAT special wheels....

I hate proprietary stuff.

I am fondling the one hub that was off the machine.....A trip to the lathe and trim the center pilot a tad and drill 5 new holes 5 on 4.5 and use standard 12 inch wheels.....

I gotta think on this one.

I need 4 wheels.
2 are trashed  ( loose nuts and all wobbled out)

2 others have rim damage...maybe usable with a bit of massaging with a 5 pounder.....

Fatsquatch modded wheels for his 2100.....I am inclined to mod the hubs and use off the shelf wheels.

There is nothing about these factory wheels that make them super strong or otherwise BETTER than any other steel wheel.

PARTS SALES IS THE DEAL....

you gotta go to the specialty parts supplier  NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WAY


----------



## Snowtrac Nome

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

junk all those 5 0n 5.5 wheels for the aluminum mono rail wheels the steel wheels were prone to cracking out around the bolts I lost 2 wheels the first winter I had mine I lost a few more the following winter I have replaced mine with the aluminum wheels and once I start the undercarriage rebuild this summer my front wheels will be replaced with 3700 wheels and the larger 3700 bearings, because once I fixed the broken wheel problem bearing failures started to happen.


----------



## Pontoon Princess

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*



Snowy Rivers said:


> Looking at these 12 inch wheels with the 5 on 5.5 pattern.
> 
> Who's dumb idea was this ????
> 
> This locks you in to buying SNOW CAT special wheels....
> 
> I hate proprietary stuff.
> 
> I am fondling the one hub that was off the machine.....A trip to the lathe and trim the center pilot a tad and drill 5 new holes 5 on 4.5 and use standard 12 inch wheels.....
> 
> I gotta think on this one.
> 
> I need 4 wheels.
> 2 are trashed  ( loose nuts and all wobbled out)
> 
> 2 others have rim damage...maybe usable with a bit of massaging with a 5 pounder.....
> 
> Fatsquatch modded wheels for his 2100.....I am inclined to mod the hubs and use off the shelf wheels.
> 
> There is nothing about these factory wheels that make them super strong or otherwise BETTER than any other steel wheel.
> 
> PARTS SALES IS THE DEAL....
> 
> you gotta go to the specialty parts supplier  NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WAY



absolutely positive you will way a better wheel for way less money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

I do believe I agree on the monorail wheels being far better.

But for now I need to get this beast at least so it will move with the van on top.

Whats likely gonna happen is this....
I do have some of the steel wheels I can get that are still good...they well get me operational....

TODAY WAS DEMOLITION DAY.

Ripped the rear groomer lift off the cat and hauled it out to the scrap pile.....

Ripped all the hoses out of the rear area.

Cleared out all the crud that had accumulated on top of the diffy.

Got the rear U joint unhooked and the shaft out of the way.

The tranny dip stick was left open...so the auto tranny is likely junk.

Real hard to turn either way..

With the watery crap that I found in the diffy I was very nervous about the diffy..  (Couple pints was all)


Butttttttttttttttttttttt...good news...I got a ratchet and a socket on the pinion nut and the unit turns fairly free..

I can spin each axle and the other one rotates the opposite...so the planetary gears are rotating.

Gonna have to rip this beast apart, clean it and at least install new bearings.

Weather is closing in and by nightfall RAIN and cold again.

So I crammed a 50 gallon barrel lid up over the diffy to keep water off the diffy top.

I did uncover a 1/8" pipe nipple open to the weather on top of the diffy....
May well have been the entry point of the water.

But I feel much better knowing the gear box will spin fairly easy

I would really like to know the history on this cat....well maybe not.

Everything I touched was/had been hacked badly by folks with little mechanical skill it would seem....


Once upon a time this old snow warrior shed a drive shaft.....the X member just ahead of the pinion yoke is all beat to rat crap....I mean there is signs of serious carnage.....

Who ever was driving at the time likely needed a change of shorts when that bad boy came loose.

The u joint that in it now is badly brinelled on both journals....lots of grease in them.... just worn out...


And those are some herky joints   1410 series they look like to me


Anyway...was a productive day....

So way cool to actually be working on MY CAT...


----------



## Snowtrac Nome

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

when you  pull the top take some pics of the compensator gears and text me the pic I will tell you how bad they look I found mine worn out but still working im in the process of building a new one for mine. also what id the r&p ratio.

Don  907 434 0692


----------



## Snowy Rivers

*Re: An introduction/hello and my project.*

I can do that.

One thing I did notice was there was nothing on the magnetic plug in the bottom....

That has to be a good sign....

I have no info on where this cat came from or what it was being used for....nothing on any maintenance

Came to me without the engine, hood or radiator

Was a V8 cat though....has the modified front tub area for the V8.

Just not much to write home to mom about..

But its a good candidate for what I want.....ONLY 30 MILES AWAY....BEST PART


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Hey troops

I asked Doc to change the title on my build thread...

So it will reflect a more real time name for the thread.


----------



## Jim_S RIP

Snowy Rivers said:


> Hey troops
> 
> I asked Doc to change the title on my build thread...
> 
> So it will reflect a more real time name for the thread.



Doesn’t matter what you call it, I’m just glad to see you making progress!



Jim


----------



## Snowy Rivers

THANKS JIM.

MEEEEEEEEE TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

After such a looooong time of not really being able to do much other than dream about this due to LACKACAT I had reached the point of just giving up the idea.

Every machine that was remotely within my $$$$$ range was usually in the thousands of miles away...one way.

We are simply not set up any more to be able to do the big road trip thing...

To be honest, I would rather have had a Spryte to work with...buttttttttttttttttttttt I am not gonna complain too loud.

When Andy (Previous owner) text me and said "I think I have what you are looking for"  I was like a little kid at Christmas time.

At 68 YO I don't really get all Ga Ga over stuff any more......I made an exception this time 

Now I have to keep a tight reign on going goofy on buying this and that goodies for the cat and stay focused on getting the frame narrowed up and making repairs that must be done to make a sound reliable foundation.

Narrow the tub, frame and axles
Service all the wheel bearings.
Get a total of 8 steel wheels that are usable. (I need 3---4 ?)
Get the OC12 apart and see what it needs (Bearings and seals for sure)
There wasn't any metal on the magnet....a good thing

Next dry day get the top off the OC12 AND TAKE A PEEK

Then I can start getting the location figured out as to where the Van will physically sit on the cat frame.....

The plan is to notch the tub and add square tube cross members that will extend beyond the sides of the tub and then add two channel rails, one on each side to allow the van to be driven onto the frame.

Once the van is on top of the cat chassis....remove the wheels/tires and lower the Van as close as is possible to the Cat.

Fabricate 4 brackets that will bolt to the hubs and then to the chassis....securing the van.

4 Links will be added , one each wheel house area to secure the frame of the van to the cat frame and stop the van suspension from moving/flexing.

This will assure the cat suspension does the work and also to keep the cat frame from trying to twist.. (The box construction of the van will make this plan an easy one...)

The drop box position will be a tedious item to locate, but my preliminary measurements are still looking good..

I have seen a full sized Chevy van on a 2100 frame, so the Astro being a bunch shorter will allow a bit more latitude on fore and aft location.

Big deal is to get the drive shaft set up with decent angles and the ability to get the shaft into the chassis after the van is mounted.

The current plan is to cut 4 strategically located  round ports (18" or maybe a bit more) in the tub...two up by the rear of the Astro's tranny tail shaft...and two back in the rear where the drop box will sit (Just ahead of the OC12_

The Astro's rear diffy needs to be close  to a position by the connection to the drop box and the OC12 so as to keep the NEW drive shaft assembly in the sweet spot as far as angle go.

I chose to use a drive shaft from an S10 extended cab.....as it is a two piece shaft with the rear shaft having two double cardan u joints...one on each end, with a center carrier bearing and then the short front shaft that slips into the tranny....

The "Double Double" rear shaft will readily allow a bunch of rule breaking as far as shaft angles goes.

The angles should not be a real issue, but it definitely would be a no go with a single cardan joint shaft..

The factory shaft and joints in the 2100 were nearly flat and this did not allow for any couple in the joint  ....As seen by all the brinelling on the joint I removed.....Trunnions were bad all in just two spots....shows that they did not rotate when the shaft turned...

Not a deal breaker....but I would prefer to have some couple in the joints, especially with the CV Joints.


Next comes the air controls for the steering

Two air brake chambers probably type 20
Two relay valves with quick release
Two double check valves to allow for foot pedal braking
Treadle valve bolted to the floor by the factory pedal arm and actuated by the pedal.

A double compressor electric air system mounted up front in the tub where the engine used to sit.

An extra battery up in the front tub to assist with things

Maybe a winch on the front  CAUSE IT WILL LOOK COOL.

Nylon air tubing to feed the controls at the steering wheel area.

There we have it.

If money were not a factor this could be accomplished in a fairly short time

Sounds simple enough.

OH

THE TRACKS

I have sourced top quality belting of the same spec as many cats run

Two belts on each side 12" wide each belt 287" long.

I have decided to build custom grousers for the beast

And the cat is born......

The van has all the creature comforts, lighting and the fully functional power plant assembly....not much to do there.

Will need to deactivate the ABS system to keep it from complaining when the drive shaft turns and the wheel sensors don't

Unhook the Driver air bag as the air steering control panel attaches to the wheel.... Do not want that bomb alive under all the steering controls....


Pretty much how it's going to go

No doubt there will be subtle changes here and there....and some of the great folks here will say something that will be an AH HA COOL THING and we will give it a whirl....

Wave my Harry Potter wand and zooooop poof....Van cat... 

In actuality this is not going to be all that difficult, just time consuming...

Ah....not much wiring....Just a bit for the air compressors....

Later I would like to add two overhead tubes to mount LED LIGHT BARS and such.

And depending on how things go...maybe scare up a nicer van at some point...

Ah yesssss....fun stuff

In the mean time, a lot of ripping and removing and cleaning up the old Packer...


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Well now...
Another chapter in the saga closes.

We took the other fellas trailer back to his house and dropped it off....without incident...

NOW we have a place to park the Suburban again...

Weather is nasty today..
Snowing and miserable outside too....

Does not look like any weather to wrench on the cat this weekend.

Andy (Seller) told me today that he had looked in the hole in the diffy when he popped the plug out before we took it home....he said there was a puddle of crap in the bottom of the diffy, but the ring looked fine  (Used a bright high intensity light)

If the teeth on the ring were not in any water things may be better than I thought.....

I am anxious to get the top off the diffy and see wassssup.

If I do not see anything really ugly we may be able to just flush the box with some ATF and spin the thing with a big drill motor to churn things up good and then drain them.

Possibly be able to at least get the Cat built and then after the initial build go ahead and tear the OC12 apart and check it over real well and replace bearings and such as needed.

Now...for you old hands at this game.

The 2100 has a pump that circulates the diffy oil through a cooler...do the smaller cats like a Spryte use a cooler on the diffy ??????

We shall see where we go with this...


----------



## PJL

Yes they do.  The LMC1200 I use does not have hydraulics but it does pump the diff oil through a filter and a cooler.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

OK
Thanks for the reply.

Will need to set up a pump off the drop box drive and run a filter and a cooler system.

Not a big deal....just want to plan for it while things are still in a state of flux.

I may be able to use what is on the cat now and just relocate stuff and power the pump directly off of the drop box front spline'd stub.

I was thinking bout running an air pump off that drive, but the two electric pumps should be fine.....

There is plenty of room in the belly, especially after the original tranny and drive shaft come out..

I will be getting the cab tilted up here soon WEATHER PERMITING

I can see the large hoses that come off the OC12 lower fittings and head forward...
Just too much crap in the belly that's covering stuff right now.

With the cab up I can get at all the stuff needed.

If the filter and pump are good we can reuse them...new filter cartridge and off we go.....


Likely mount a cooler in the belly and maybe run an electric fan on it with a temp switch...


----------



## olympicorange

……..  S/R,..  you definitely have your work cut out for you.  to say a ton of labor hours , would be an under statement .  commendable comes to mind.   i'm intrigued in the loading & unloading process of the van.  and the timeframe in which it will take to make it happen.  whats the gameplan for loading ramps? slide in & out , like an equip. trailer.   wondering how much the Cat will ''fulcrum'' , while driving on & off...…  etc.     not having to remove the wheels & tires , would be a real time saver,  in the equation.   like a small removable deck section under each wheel, or a ''porta-power'' operated lift/sub-frame support for the rear axle, clamp/ bracket the van frame to cat, prior to lifting rear axle, ( compressing suspension into place, etc.).  and securing van to cat , at the same time, etc.....  cool project.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

I will try to answer your questions in order..

Load and unloading

The plan is to use our BIG TEX TRAILER 
Back the van onto the trailer
Locate the trailer behind the cat
Insert a pair of short channels to bridge across to the cat from the ramps on the Tex

Block the rear frame of the cat with plain old wood cribbing to stop the FULCRUM 
Drive the van slowly down the channel rails (Added to the cat frame as a permanent part)

Locate the van fore/aft 

Remove the blocking and go park the trailer.  

TIRES WHEELS

These need to come off to lower the C/G and to get the van in a position to keep the drive shaft angle in the sweet spot.
I want the van chassis right down so it just clears the top tub rail of the 2100

4 black HDPE (Plastic) covers will fit in the wheel openings to dress  things up.

The first time around will take some time I'm sure due to measuring and getting things dialed in..

After things are located and all the bracketry is drilled and such, things should go fairly quick for a load and unload.

I have the sketches taking shape for the brackets at each wheel hub.

Basically a large angle fabrication 3/16" x 18" x 12" sheet metal (12" foot) with some stiffeners welded in.

The wheel hub bolt circle will be cut in the brackets for the lugs to attache the bracket to the hub/cat

Likely I will weld some locating "keys" on the cat frame pad to allow the brackets to be easily aligned on subsequent mountings.

A note

The channels welded to the cat frame will be set so the vans track width/tires will just roll in the channel to put the van in a near perfect side to side location.

I have not decided on what to use...steel channel or aluminum ?????
The only thing these do is allow easy roll on/off of the van.

Just need to be strong enough to hold the van while loading/unloading

Suspension securing

The "Tie links" will consist of a square tube with a round seamless heavy wall tube welded across each end (1-1/2" bore)

4 companion mounts that will weld/bolt to the vans sub frame (Depending on what location is available when we get there) 

These will likely end up being rectangle tube cut to form a deep channel and have a 9/16" hole drilled through.

See the piccy of the bushings

Standard GM Square body 4X4 SPRING BUSHINGS   (OFF THE SHELF TECH) 


The links will be assembled using a jig to make sure all 4 links are identical so any one will fit any corner.

The suspension on the van will be in the neutral position when the links are attached....(Ease of assembly)


All the while I have been waiting for a cat I have explored many ideas  and grabbed a few things i WAS PRETTY SURE would be of use......

Found the bushings at a garage sale cheap 

Now they will have a job....

I want this thing to go together just like legos....and not take a rocket scientist to make it happen.

All the air lines are a different color
All fittings will be quick connect type.

The lines in the van will lay along the LH side on the floor...around the drivers seat and up to the operator station and plug in.

In the back of the van along the floor on the LH side there will be corresponding through hull fittings that will receive the matching quick connects both inside and under the van.

Toss in the tubes. plug and play ....pretty much once the assembly has been fabricated the next time it will require very few tools to hook up and go cat'n

A very small amount of tools.

Literally a handful of wrenches is all...

3/4" socket and ratchet
3/4" end wrench        (Fasten the mounting brackets to the cat)
Lug wrench


13/16" socket
13/16" end wrench   (Link bolts)

Zip ties and side cutters (Fasten the operator station to the steering wheel) 
Fastens at 3 places...located at two points at the lower part of the wheel for stability.

Small crescent wrench and possibly a 1/2 and 7/16 wrench to connect auxiliary battery up front in the tub

PLUG AND PLAY CAT.....

This may seem a daunting task....but is actually very simple.

When you look at it in it's entirety, yes...the scope can seem overwhelming, but break things down into small sections and it gets simple really quick....


Ahhhhhh yesssss

When you can get the ideas on paper and have dimensions to work with 
(Real world stuff) a lot can be accomplished without getting dirty.

Then it can be taken out and the steel can be cut, fit and made to do what ya want...

IS THIS ALL GOING TO BE PERFECT??? LIKELY NOT...WILL CHANGES BE MADE....PROBABLY A CERTAINTY THERE....

But the basic plan is looking real viable at this point.

Back before I had a real cat to go touchy feely the ideas were sketchy and had a lot of room left to guessing....

Now when I am sitting here sucking coffee and designing....I can go down and look at something and run a tape across it.....then have real time data as  to IF IT WILL WORK....

Pix

The operator station.

Valves, hand rest (Will end up black)

Station just anchors to wheel with 3 large zip ties (Sort of hinky...but fast and does not damage the wheel)  FAST OFF..SNIP SNIP SNIP

This design allowed ME TO NOT TEAR UP THE STEERING CONTROLS OF THE VAN.

All controls stay and are functional.

Wipers, signals, head lamp dimmer, shifter.....

Wheel station mount will end up with a link connected to the drivers seat pedestal to keep the wheel stable at level position (Stop unnecessary stress on the power steering system in the van)

JUST LIKE LEGOS     


I have the basic plan done for the operator station but the exact size and layout of the connection manifold that will fasten on to the right of the right joy stick on the open section of panel.

The 3 large holes....lighten the piece and to allow access to the horn pad on the wheel (Works great with left thumb)

This entire assembly gets painted black after its done so it blends into the scenery.....

The operator station took form on paper over the course of a week or so....then after I was happy with the idea it was an afternoons work to cut the aluminum and get it to the point it is now.

I scared up the valves (spring return N/C 3 PORT)  AIR SUPPLY....EXHAUST... CONTROL

Again...just like legos

All off the shelf stuff too.....


----------



## Pontoon Princess

astro van.....inspiration


----------



## Snowy Rivers

I saw that one a couple years ago.

It is on a 3700 cat

I spent a couple hours on the phone chatting with the fella who put it together.

The Astro is a shell only.  (The engine tossed a rod out the side...so was pretty much junk)

The cat has the original AC diesel engine and the hydro pump system.

He sold it to a guy on the east coast IIRC.

A 3700 would be sweet, but repairs on the Sunstrand swash pumps and the hydro motors can be real expensive if they go bad.......

I am happy to have the pile of junk I have......


YESSSSSSSSSSSSS...The little Blue Astro got me to thinking, and I love the little Astro's anyway.....beyond the yuppy soccer Mom stigma...they are a handy comfy little ride.

Outta make a sweet cab for a cat.....

Here are the other pix of the Blue van cat


----------



## Snowy Rivers

oooooooooooook

I got the top off the OC12  (Suspense was killing me to see inside)

Better than it could have been....but more work than I wanted.

The Bad

It has had water in it and it made a mess.

Goopy sloppy rusty yuck.....

The GOOD

The ring and pinion are not hurt....some surface etching (Black) but not gonna hurt anything.

The box has been into not that many hours ago of actual time me thinks.
Brake drums look good with no scoring from rivets getting into the drum.

Equalizer gears do not show hardly any wear on the teeth.

No broken ring gear teeth.

Did find 3 or four teeth that are chipped at the outer edge...The edges are razor sharp.... (I have seen this on other gear sets.

I will use a die grinder and a small stone and lightly radius the outer edges of the teeth to remove the stress riser...and stop any more chips.

Chips are tiny, so no worries.

Ratio of the R&P IS 5.44   (9 PINION AND 49 RING TEETH)

The pictures make things look far uglier than they look to the eye.

Tear it apart.
Wash it up.

Buff all the parts with a wire wheel and rewash.

Replace the carrier and pinion bearings....good for a lot of running...

This is about the same as the crawler tractor I rebuilt years ago...except a lot bigger...

Got some pictures of the trailer near the cat today..
Son in law heading off to get hay for the horses (A dry day today)

The Big Tex could hold two of these cats (without blade) and have room to spare...

About 14000 pounds for two cats..... we have had more than that on that trailer.


The trailer will be a sweet rampemup to roll the van off onto the cat...


Here are the pix


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Thinking about the OC12 and reading here and a few other places about what oil to use

NON hydraulic equipment, transport only

Seems that a TO-4 30w TRACTOR FLUID pops up a lot in different writings.

I can get that material at my local NAPA store for about $70 for a 5 gallon pail..

Does this oil sound like a good choice for the OC12 ????

There seems to be the FORD CHEVY DODGE thing with what oil to use in these boxes.

We are not extremely cold here...not even.   

The specs on the TO-4 sounds good for use with wet brakes, clutches and such as well as gears.....

What say ye troops ?????


----------



## KickerM

I used Cat TO-4 fluid in mine, worked great, and stands up well to brake steering.  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Sounds great.

That solves that issue.

I am going to plan on a cooler for the beast.

Likely smaller than what the 2100 had, but good enough to take the heat off.

The coolers on the machine are pretty well trashed...and likely contaminated.

There is a nice looking filter in the cooler circuit....possibly be able to clean it up and use it with a fresh filter ?????? we will see

Looking at the OC12.
As soon as we get another shot of decent weather that bad boy is coming off the cat and will get the axle tubes off and get the center section in the machine shop and start ripping it apart.

That will give me a lot of needed work to take care of until we get good outdoor weather to work on the chassis.....

All the gears, pins, bushings and such are going to need to be tended to  A LOT...

But once the parts are cleaned up it can go back together and then occupy a corner until needed.

I have to shorten the axles and tubes 13" per side... so that can be done as well...

Great crappy weather work.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Spent some time on the phone with the guys at Dutchman axle up in Idaho this afternoon talking about getting the axles in the 2100 shortened and re-spline'd 

I need to get one of those bad boys out and check the diameter to make sure it stays the same all the way down most the the length.

And the spine count..

Square cut splines cost a bit more to do than the V type splines.

The rough estimate to cut the shafts by 13" and re-cut the splines was $200 for the pair..

They also want me to ship them the gear the spline goes into to be sure the new splines fit properly....Yeah that would be nice eh ?????


The weather looks good for tomorrow, so will likely get a shaft, maybe both out to get a look at them...

They need to be out anyway to get going on disassembling the diffy...

Probably should yank the drain plugs out of the drop boxes and HOPE these are not full of water....
There is a seal between the case and the drop boxes.....butttttttttttttttttttt....ya never know.


Once the axles are shortened the axle tubes can be cut and then sleeved/welded...All good to go..

The current plan is to narrow the main frame up and then bolt the OC12 back in and attach the axle tubes, and then weld the splices.

The brackets where the tubes bolt to the frame rails are pretty sorry looking.

I am thinking at present that new pads a tad heavier with fresh holes that are not wallowed out and bosses to lengthen the amount of area the bolts go through may be a good idea.

The pads on the axles are wretched looking....
A great time to fix all this stuff.......

I am almost temped to build a saddle that the axles tube sits in with a key way/key to secure the tube and the u bolts to fasten the entire assembly to the frame rails.

This area always seems to be one that needs fixing, especially on the big cats with the wide tracks...

While the build is getting off to a good start these mods might be a real game saver down the road a bit....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Looking at the gear ratio data on the OC12 and the drop box ratios in the 2100

Thiokol published the spec sheet showing 12.2 mph at 4000 RPM WITH THE C6 Auto tranny

This calculates out to a 6.14 R&P with the 2.44 drop boxes.

My cat has 5.44 R&P and at present (I counted the teeth) I have no idea what the Drop boxes are.

At this late date GAWD only knows who bolted in what or why.

Probably the diify crashed and the owners at the time used whatever they could find and tossed it in.

Having the higher ratio is certainly a plus for my application.

I am hoping it has the 1.83 drop gears too, but we will not know until I split the cases open.

Today the job is to get an axle out and see if the shaft diameter is such that we can have them cut off and the splines re-cut.

If the diameter is the same back at least 13" we are golden.   If not then we may have to fall back 30 and punt    .....

I will post pics after I get the beast out......


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Got the axle out.

YUCKY YUCKY YUCKY..

Bearing broken in two.

The retainer ring   (Wedding ring) was a tad too big and had been rubbing on the inner weld in the axle tube.

Chips likely jammed the bearing causing the bearing to break.

Axle looks fine.

Bearing slid right off after I cut the wedding ring and warmed it up a tad.

Seal is intact and the numbers are readable.....


New direction

Too expensive to replace the axle shafts and so..

Gonna leave it wide at 92" center of wheels
36" tracks....and be 10'-6" wide.

Just permit the haul....far easier and cheaper than paying up the ying yang for narrower shaft...

I will not have to chop the frame and axles...just repair the front one that is bent and call it a day.


This change will make my life far easier.....

Getting into the wide cat will be easy too....climb up the tracks and walk down and climb in.....

PIX


----------



## PJL

Good news in a way.  You just reduced your workload.


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## Snowy Rivers

GAWD YES

A bunch...a big bunch.

Clean up the tub and axles...repair the front axle

Clean and reassemble the OC12 and drop boxes.

I am still at a bit of a loss as to what took out the outer bearing.

That thing was a 5 alarm train wreck......

The snap ring groove was busted off the outer edge, the outer race was busted and missing a piece....

I have not found the piece yet....

Large enough that I do not see it having crawled up the axle tube to the drop box..

Can anyone tell me where to find the retainer ring (Wedding ring) that holds the bearing on the shaft ?????????


The 5210 bearing with the snap ring are easily, as are the seals.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Weather was still nice this morning, so I got after removing the other axle shaft.

No real carnage....other than water and goopy old oil.

The one thing I did notice was the seal in the bearing retainer flange is sticking out about 3/16-1/4" and has been chewing on the inside of the axle bolt flange... Or maybe I should say the flange has been chewing on the seal.

Wrong seal, or somebody just did not install it correctly ????
I will know more after the stuff is apart.

I did not take the time to remove the retainer and the bearing this morning, so we shall see wassssssup later.


Shaft out and all wiped clean of the crap and in the shop now.

Looking at the mounting plates where the axle tube bolts to the frame.....pretty sketchy.

I am doing some sketching on a better design that will be less prone to cracking and breaking than what is there.

I need to fabricate some jigs to position the axle in its proper place (Seems OK now as measurements are good on both sides) and then cut all the trash off the frame and the axle tubes.....then relocate the new parts and weld it up....

We shall see what I can come up with that will work well


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Weather is crappy...half snow here at the ranch.

Did some snooping around for the bearing retainer rings..

Nothing....custom part only...

So I decided to go on the snoop for some steel seamless tube close to the right size.


Nobody had any short pieces, and one outfit had a 5 foot (Must take it all)
$370

NO WAY......I do not need 5 feet of that stuff laying around the shop.

Another big steel supplier did not have any seamless tube, buttttttttttttt...did have a 3 foot scrap of 3" 4140 round bar  in the drop box

FREEEEEEEEE WAS A MIGHTY GOOD PRICE....30 MILES ROUND TRIP

Gonna get that bad boy in the cut off saw and chop off about 10" .   4140 machines very nice, far better than regular cold roll or hot roll mild steel....some of that stuff is like machining mud....nasty rough finish...


That will fit nice in the lathe and then I can start whittling on it.

Wont take much to trim the OD down to 2-3/4"
Drill a hole in it....I think I have a 1-1/4" drill.....anyway, big enough that I get a boring bar in and get it out to size.

I am thinking about .004" to .005" smaller than the shaft size.

Warm that bad boy up with the torch and drop it on behind the new bearings.

Would have been nice to have a seamless tube, but ya know what they say about "GIFT HORSES"

I am very happy to get this chunk of bar stock......3 feet of this is HEAVY TOO.

I was a bit rough on the old one...sliced it on both sides and then heated it up good to get it off...

A real nice pretty new one will be sweet though


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Weather is crappy today....Arrrrrrgh

BUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT..
After breakfast I'm going to get that big chunk of steel in the saw and chop off a piece to work with and get started making the new retainers.

Be really sweet to have a CNC....But around here we have to do things the old fashioned way......
My little machine shop is cramped, but with the mill and the lathe many things can be readily whipped up..

Found the mill on ebay back in 2004 and grabbed it quick before I discovered it was in LA...OMG...ROAD TRIP

All manual 9 x 42 Max mill.....
I ran Bridgeports when I was in the mill industry, and this little clone is every bit as good......

The guy who owned it before me made Soap box derby car parts....certainly no stress on the mill.
Also, most old production machines will have the ways all worn out in the middle.

This one is good all the way across.....

So now it gets to make snow cat parts.

The lathe would be better if it had a longer bed....
I would love to have a rig with an 8 foot bed to be able to do drive shaft work..

Ah well....such is life.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Got started making some bearing retainers

Got two ready to bore the center hole.

The little Jet saw is OK but it's not a production shop saw for sure.

Chewing on 3" 4140 took some time.

Two ready now for the center bore.

1.964"  (Bearing is 2.9685 and the shaft is 2.968")

Cut six parts while I was at it.

Going to finish 2


----------



## Snowy Rivers

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOK

Good weather has graced us for a few days and it's time to get the cab tilted up on the 2100 and work at clearing out the junk in the belly.

The old C6 tranny is nearly full of water (Dip stick left out) so that thing is pretty much a junk pile.

It needs to go away.
Once the tranny is out that will open up a lot of room to start cleaning stuff up.

The belly is chucked full of oil soaked long pine needles and any sparks from a grinder or a torch would set the entire cat ablaze...

I Do not want to burn my prize to the dirt.....

I got the cab rigged with  a nylon strap and ready to hook the "Li'l Red tractor to up to the beast and see if we can tilt it full over.

The restraining arm on the rear is still in good order.....so the cab should lay over easily.... I HOPE

After breakfast I will give things a go and see wassssssssup....

I will get some pix as this unfolds.

I gave the cab a tweak with a big pry bar and it seems to be free to move.

Some good skunk piss on the big hinge likely did not hurt things either.

See what happens......


----------



## Snowy Rivers

OK
It was a good day.
Cab tilted  (An easy job with the Widdle tractor)

Sorting through the mess.
I need to try and sort out the hydraulic hose routing and such for the blade.

I have a fella who wants my blade and I want to make life as easy as possible so the routing of the hoses will go smoothly.

The entire belly is a mess.

The clowns that yanked the engine could have cared less about much.

To get the tranny out I need to remove the double mico cylinder foot brake system..

Then I can get at the rear tranny mounts.

Unhook the safety brake cable, tranny cable, and a few other items and the gearbox can be plucked out with the tractor bucket.

Got the drive shaft out...looks good...someone will want it..

Same with the Foot brake system...

Got the fuel tank off as well.  WITH THE BANDS IN USABLE CONDITION 

One piece at a time...

Gotta get my "Monkey suit" outta the closet.

This beast is just filthy...just getting close enough to see things will soil the clothes up real good


Bunch of Pictures

Anyone looking for specific parts from a 2100 PM ME.....
This beast is getting gutted except for the OC12.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Today was another lovely day to work on the cat.

The plan was to get the dual foot brake setup out and then the emergency electric hydraulic pump unit out.

This cleared the way to to be able to lift the tranny out.

After digging into this cat.....it is becoming ever so obvious that this cat is  A MUTT.

Way too many things have been modified and likely added to this cat after it left the factory.


The dual foot brake setup was one such item

No way would Thiokol have built such a cobbled up mess....

Looks like it worked, but the bracket was a mixture of things all bolted together.

Finally got the goodies away from the tranny and worried the bolts out of the rear tranny mount..

With the tranny lose and the park brake cable unhooked it was time to get the little tractor up here and try a lift..

Bucket too short....had to mickey mouse a wooden piece to give us a tad more length of reach.....

Rigged the tranny up and it came right out.

A pix of the tranny with the added deep sump pan.

The park brake assembly added to the rear of the gear box is quite the unit.

A shot of the special WIRE AND HOSE REMOVAL TOOL   (Tree trimmers)

A bucket load of trash for the garbage.

Hauled away nearly a full bucket of crap out of the front of the belly pan.

And the booty.

Found a lovely little PROTO short double end wrench buried in the goop....DEEP

Used to belong to Alonzo....mine now...

I had scraped up a double handful of oil soaked needles and crap and tossed it at the bucket on the tractor....CLANG...Hmmmmm...went snooping and found the wrench...


Tomorrow will be time to start yarding out hoses.

Gonna be an oily mess.
I got pans and buckets to catch all the we can catch....

The one cooler up front was for the tranny, but had been unhooked and the POS hung on the head ache rack used..

The second cooler up from was from the Diffy cooler/pump setup.

That entire cooler unit is headed for the trash.

Looking at the cab hinge.....a bit of grinding as some idiot welded the hinge in a few places to the cab...

Once the hinge is free the cab can be lifted off easily with the Skid steer.

Some lumber in the bucket to shield the cab from damage and run a strap over the cab and tie off to the lift ring on the rear of the bucket..

Remove the hinge bolts and that bad boy will be off....

I am thinking about leaving the hoses from the cab controls hooked up to keep water out of the valves....

Starting to get a lot closer to what I need for the van cat......

Kitty and Li'l Red all tucked in for the night.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Got busy today and decided to clean up and have a look at the one axle spindle that had the hub laying loose when the cat cam home.

Lucky we even got the hub.

The bearing races were on the spindle and things are good to go.

Bearings were totally chewed to rat crap...

But the hub and spindle are usable.

The seal was a wadded up mess.

Took of on of the others to get the numbers off the seal

Factory seal  C/R 17616   single lip seal.

I did some snooping and am going with a 17607 which is .438" wide instead of the .359" wide on the stock seal.

The 17607 is a double lip and should help keep water and crud out better.

The other hub I pulled off had the seal in there....but the seal surface rubber was gone..
Just the metal ring that holds it.

All the bearings are going to need to come apart.

I needed a dust cap too..
NAPA STORE HAD THEM IN STOCK  730-2411  
I will likely replace all the old ones with new, as some are beat up from a clown hitting them with a hammer.

A tool to install these WILL BE NICE....ALUMINUM DRIVER RING SEEMS REASONABLE

The caps are $2 at NAPA

Using the thicker seal will get the seal onto nicer metal....and having two lips will help....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Just a Quicky
I had to order the seal   (Thicker seal 17607)   I will be in this morning.

The stock C/R 17617 is an easy Ebay score

Here is the best deal I have found so far for these seals   https://www.thebigbearingstore.com/agriculture-seal-17617-bp13166-17273vhy-906295-204038/

NOTE
I MADE A MISTAKE ON THE NUMBER IN MY ORIGINAL POSTING

17617 IS THE PROPER NUMBER  
2.722" OD for 1.75" shaft


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## Snowy Rivers

UPDATE ON THE 17617 SEALS

After doing more snooping on these seals...there is a difference in seals depending on who makes them.

The number 17617 crosses to several manufacturers and many seals that are the proper size are not the best choice.

The original seals were a heavier body construction and the lip could be aimed outward which would keep more crap out and allow the hub to be greased using the zirk fitting.

Installing the seal in this fashion will require making SURE that the edge of the seal surface on the spindle that faces toward the bearing is rounded slightly and smooth to allow the seal lip to ride over the spindle seal surface properly.

When I pulled the second hub off the cat to get a number I noticed that the seal rubber lip was gone.
This was likely the result of someone just slamming the hub on and not paying attention to what was happening....

The wider seal I am getting today has 2 lips...this may be a better choice  BUT greasing the bearings with the zirk will not be an option due to the lip seal facing inward... THE SEAL WILL NOT ALLOW GREASE TO ESCAPE and pumping in grease could push the seal out..

Any of the seals the proper size can get you by...but water entry from being immersed in the fluffy snow (Melts and can seep into the bearing) can be an issue with the lip facing inward..  *****I think Thiokol had this figured out as further looking reveals two of my wheels have the lip seal facing out *****

MORE INFO TO FOLLOW AS I GET ACTUAL SEALS IN MY HANDS AND GET A GOOD LOOKY SEE AT THEM.

Both the cast lug stud style hubs and the Alloy wheels have grease zirks to allow adding grease.

GREASE COMING OUT...WATER NOT GOING IN....A GOOD THING...

I never gave a thought to snow causing an issue with water entry....Years ago we raced drag boats and were always dunking the trailer to float the boat off...

Wheel bearings were always full of water by seasons end....A CONSUMABLE ITEM...

Losing a wheel bearing out in the bush, miles from the truck...or ???? could be an ugly situation...

A season end practice....
As much of a PITA as it will be to drop the tracks and service the bearings....a great idea though me thinks.

https://www.motionindustries.com/productDetail.jsp?sku=01300246

Look at this link
The seal cross section is shown well.   NOTE THE WRITE UP MENTIONS "FOR MAX EXCLUSION FACE LIP OUTWARD"

This seal tech applies not only to the Thiokol cats, but anything that has bearings and seals and runs down in the slop and slush/snow

I remember seeing a post  "Rusty the spryte" and the fella was dealing with a torn up spindle...Rusty bearings that finally failed and the beast ate the spindle up......


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## Snowy Rivers

OK
I got the C/R 17607 SEAL IN MY HOT LITTLE HANDS.

This seal has a nice outer lip to shield against water and the inner lip faces the bearing.

Pack these bad boys with a good waterproof grease and they should be good to go.

Just lube the seal and the spindle well and life will be good..


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Snooping around looking for a wheel hub for the cat.

Finally found them.

H25-555F IS THE PART NUMBER

Agriculture type 5 hole on 5-1/2" circle
Same inner and outer  bearings and seal
All dims are correct....cast iron hub

The complete kit comes with 
The hub with races installed
Both bearings
The seal
5 lug nuts
The dust cover too.

Found one on ebay for $45 and free shipping.....Came without the bearing cones and the seal.
Lug nuts came with it.
I am excited to get my hands on it and make sure there is not a caveat somewhere.

The little blue print shows the same dims as my used one  (except what roughed up on mine)   


Prices vary online...$60 is about average

Once it gets here I will get the new one close to my used one and take pix....

The number on the old hub  104683 is a good number and crosses over to the new ones

My hub is just rough enough in the seal bore that I do not want to try to mickey mouse it.

Too hard to see the seal once the tracks are on the machine.... and even more misery if it fails out in the field.


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## Snowy Rivers

Snowed last night...cold outside...but spring like weather in a few days.

A few pics of the messed up hub.

Will be nice to have a new hub on that spot.

As the weather gets nicer the cab is coming off and the belly of the beast is going to get a super wash job.

One at a time each wheel hub gets to see a good wash job and either the bearings washed up and repacked (Or replaced) and a new seal installed.

Once the cab is off it will be way easier to get at the tub.
After a decent wash job ...then the head ache bar is getting the chop....

Once we are into more decent weather the OC12 gotta come out and get ripped apart.

Good weather will definitely make this far more enjoyable..


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Got tired of listening to all the doom and gloom about the Corona virus...

Headed down to the machine shop and went to work doing something constructive.

After finding a piece of 3-1/2" shaft in the corner I cut off a chunk and started whittling on a repair ring to fix my one hub.

I just could not stand seeing it sitting on my table in an unusable condition.....

I turned up the ring a bit heavy and finished the bore to allow the seal to JUST FIT with thumb pressure.

I will go ahead and bore the cast iron wheel hub out to give about enough room to accept a ring with a tad over 1/8th" wall thickness.

Gonna turn the ring down so we have .004" interference fit on the cast hub.

Gonna press the ring in and then machine off the excess in the mill.

Sadly, without a bunch of fooling around I can't grab the hub in the lathe.

There is not any finished surfaces that I can grab, and it would take machining up some plugs to press into the bearing bores and then insert a shaft in to drive the hub....Too much work.

Just mill off the excess....good to go........

Got the shipping notice on the new hub I ORDERED..... 

Maybe tomorrow I will finish the repair work.

Cats are sooooooo much fun.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Been a tad under the weather.

Slipped going down the stairs on the frozen slop left from the snow we had over the weekend.

Wrenched my ankle bad....
By the end of the day working on the repair for the hub I WAS HURTING.

Laid low yesterday and did zip.

Feeling better this morning....we'll see how the ankle feels after I get to moving a bit more.


I really want to get the hub bored out and the new ring in place.

I am thinking that a better plan will be to heat the hub up good and hot and drop the ring in..

Less chance of distorting the thin wall ring that way.....

Weather is getting a bit better too.

Looks like the new parts will be here by weeks end.

I really want to get the old Hydraulic hoses yanked out of the cat and the cab pulled off.

As soon as that's done I can get after hot washing the beast up so things can move ahead.......

All the Corona virus brew ha ha is depressing.
All you here on the TV is about the virus and ALL IS LOST...

A good day of Snow cat therapy is in order


----------



## Snowy Rivers

OK TROOPS

Got after the bad boy hub.

Drove out a couple of the wheel studs so I could tie the hub on the mill table.

Got the boring head off the shelf and in the machine.

****This is an ebay special, over seas made boring head****

I have used the top end Bridgeport boring heads, and this little goody works as good as any of the $$$$$$$$$$$$$ Bridgeport tools....It was CHEAP TOO

Indicated the bearing bore in and locked the table down.

Started the boring head up and aimed at a finished bore of 3 inches.

Finished after it cooled at 3.0015" cooled off.

Decided to make a weeeeee change....so I machined a new ring and modified the dimensions a bit.

The seal was just at a thumb push.

Machined the OD of the ring to give .006" press fit.

I did press the ring in with the hydraulic press.

Tossed the hub back in the mill and trimmed off the excess ring.

(If I could have grabbed the hub in the lathe chuck it would have been sweet...

But that was not gonna happen....

So just cut the excess off with a fly cutter and then debur'd it with the die grinder and a whizz wheel.... Good to go...

Seal will drive in as it should now.....

A piccy of the ROTOPHASE  (Gives me 240 3 phase power to run the machines..... Sweet little gizmo....


Used an easy out to dig out the broken grease fitting from the hub.

Aside from a bit of residual rust, this old girl is ready for prime time once again.

Some live action    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqshzhVpHBc


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## Snowy Rivers

OK TROOP

I got one of the new hubs today.

Measured that bad boy up...

The critical dimensions are all good to go.

The hubs are a slight bit different if you look closely, but the inside of the inner bearing to the outside of the outer bearing (Cone) are right where they need to be.

The casting is a slight bit heavier and uses a tad longer studs....but these bad boys are a well made replacement hub....

The pilot register is a bit thicker height wise, but the diameter is the same.
I am going to slip the hub assembly onto the spindle tomorrow to get my final assessment of the hub with the bearings instsalled.

Here are some pix


----------



## KickerM

I think I need to learn some machining skills from you!  I have an lathe and mill but I don’t know much about them other than I keep them lubed and clean! Nice work and I wish you could show me a few tricks


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## Snowy Rivers

Kicker

Thank you

Be happy to, but we are a tad far away for an afternoon class 

I worked in the machine trade for a lot of years....until a badly messed up back said NO MORE long stints on my feet.

Went into Dump trucking for the remainder of my working career.

What type of machines do you have ????

Post some piccy's    

I always seem to find that my machines are a bit too small.

As with this project, the hub was a bit too big to grab in the chuck of the lathe.

I could have made some "tooling" to be able to get hold of the hub and drive it, but that was going to entail buying more materials and fooling around a lot.

The mill is a nice size at 9 x 42 inch table  (A common size for a vertical mill)

No CNC STUFF HERE....I'm old school....

Actually I would love the new stuff, but the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ are high, and for hobby stuff it is just not going to happen.

I wish my lathe was a bit larger... It will swing 16" but the bed is too short for stuff like drive shafts.

What would be sweet is an 18 x 96 inch Lathe... A bit big for the wee stuff, but for the big stuff it would gitterdone nicely.

Trying to do stuff like cats really calls for some serious tools


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Got the new hub all greased up and installed on the axle.

This will keep the spindle in good shape.

I hated seeing the spindle left open.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

A couple buddies stopped by and admired my 2100 today.....

The idea was passed around to stuff a 454 Chevy with a Turbo 400 behind it into the cat..

Add some 5" chrome side pipes down the length just under the van body.....

The idea of getting a van with a dead engine and stripping out the entire drive train...

Really would not be all that much more work than what I am looking at now.

Change the big rat over to a vertex Magneto and a simple holley 4 barrel carb to deal with the fuel needs.....

SIMPLE SIMPLE SIMPLE    BIG OLD TORQUE MONSTER....

One of the older 454 engines.....92-93 engines from a BURB and swap in a carburetor fuel system....and the magneto.

Mount the body so it can be rolled back to service the engine....

That might be an awesome rig.....

What say yee cat freaks ??????


----------



## PJL

I say do it.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

I spoke with my son in law last night about the idea....and we beat it around some...

The tub in the 2100 is quite open, especially when all the hydraulics are all ripped out....

Modifying the  motor mount to allow the GM engine and tranny to fit in will be an easy task....

The drive shaft from the 2100 can be modified easily to fit a long shaft TH400

Actually the shaft has a 1410 heavy slip yoke on it mated to the disc brake assembly...this can be adapted to a TH400 that has a non slip yoke output....

This plan will eliminate the need for the goofy drop box and a few other work around's that I have been planning on.

The engine in the belly (Like stock) will lower the CG as well.

Mounting the Radiator in the van chassis will likely be the best plan as the nose of the 2100 is pretty narrow..... "Subject to change as time goes by"

I have plenty of work to do getting the frame, axles and the OC12 ready to go...so a lot of ideas can be hashed out in the interim.....

Making the Cat a separate entity and not taking our existing van will not really hurt my feelings much.

Day before yesterday my tenant that rents the lower level of my home (Separate apartment that was my folks...long ago) had her Jeep Cherokee give trouble....she is a care giver and has to work her butt off to make ends meet....I wrenched on the Jeep and loaned her my Van for two days.

Seriously messed up battery cables (Crimped and not soldered) and a broken wire in the malstrom had caused the charging system to stop working....except when the AC compressor would kick in.....

Anyway...having the Widdle Red van was a nice thing...


I digress...

Many things to think about.....
I slept on the idea last night and decided to go a step farther.

I placed a want ad on Craig's list to see what sort of Dead Astro can be scared up for as little $$$$ as possible....Free would be a good thing.

There was one a few weeks ago listed as "Haul it away please"

I had mentioned in another persons thread about "Change orders" in projects...

Right now I have not soaked a lot of $$$$ into things that will be wasted.

Fact is I still have the manual master cylinders I scared up for the steering from when I started this project back a few years.

I have not purchased the electric air pumps yet that were planned for the steering system.   They are not cheap...

A great time for a revision as things are not buried in $$$$$ as yet.....

Looking over the specs on the engines and comparing weight and size between the 391 ford and the GM Rat motor....very similar....


Last night the idea of using a GM 6.2 diesel came into the the picture.

I have owned several 6.2/6.5 diesels and they served me well....not a real rocket....but a good little engine.

I still like the idea of a Rat motor....

A rock solid foundation....marry it to a TH400 tranny and the combo is bullet proof....


All the electrical connections for instruments, ignition and such will all work quite easily between the van and a big chevy rat...

I am also thinking about a bit earlier van to allow getting away from the OBD2 electronics  1993/94/95 were still OBD1 and this system is not as big a pain to modify stuff and not have to deal with issues.

I would like to keep things OLD SCHOOL and simple.

Simple fuel system, simple igintion...

I mentioned a Vertex magneto..... These are great....but ya don't find parts in every corner NAPA store.

An old style large cap HEI... One wire will make it go...The second wire will give you a tachometer.... any more than that is just trouble waiting to happen... IMHO

Sounds easy enough....

We* shall see what crops up on my Craig's list ad and what can be scavenged in the way of a big Rat motor.

Ideas are always welcome....

This is Bow tie country here at the ranch.....:th_lmao:


----------



## rdynes01

I've held my tongue as long as I can on this going on 3 years long thread and I must say fish or cut bait! There are 17 pages worth of input and replies on this project and I see little progress on it in all that time. 17 pages of long winded replies that much of which has nothing to do with progress on the project itself. I',m sure I'll get heat for this post but I come here for useful info snowcats but so much of this thread has nothing to do with that. Some people like to hear themselves talk and I guess some people like to read there own postings.Sorry but I'm just calling it as I see it.....Bob


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## Snowy Rivers

Good for you....I can accept all the flack you want to toss my way.

But the fact is..up until a very short time ago I did not have a cat to work on.

NOW THERE IS A CAT SITTING OUT HERE IN FRONT OF THE SHOP.....

If I had wanted or could have bought a running cat....I would not have.

I have a specific idea in mind and that's the way I am going.

Money is a big factor......

I do not pay people to do my work....
I machine what I need, fabricate the same way....
Unless a huge windfall of $$$$$ lands at my door this project is going to crawl along relatively slow for some folks....

You just call all the flack you want......I have broad shoulders

Mr TOP WELDER called all sorts of flack and insults down on me for the same reason
Ahhhhh....

You see the 2100 sitting in front of my shop.... well that is HUGE PROGRESS BUD.

I can't go out and drop many thousands of $$$$$$$ on this thing....at least not at once...

I actually gave up on the idea due to the lack of a Cat at a price I could deal with.... Late January saw this change and the 2100 came my way....
Reasonably priced and 30 miles away....not 1000 or more.

So if you want to see faster progress.....grab your deep pocketed check book and C'MON over and help.

Sorry if you do not like my style or my speed.....but that's how it is.

I am always willing and able to help others with issues...be it advice or if they are close by I have no issue with driving over and swinging a wrench.....

So.....??????

If you do not like me and my posts/project....I am not at all worried....
I do not have any animosities with anyone in here..and I do not feel one way or the other about how much money others can spend..

Relax and enjoy life...too much hate and discontent not to.....


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## 1boringguy

Humm ........ seems like the easy solution is, if you don't like it, don't read it


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## Snowy Rivers

Hey

I can understand a bit of the direction this other guy is going..

When you are just rebuilding a given known quantity it take far less time and zero engineering.

My project is basically AT THIS POINT a ground up design and engineering project.

For a long time it was only a dream.

Now with the 2100 here to work on things can move ahead...

But not in the same way as a fella who is grinding off old paint, welding up cracked frame pieces or installing new grouser on the tracks.

Anyone who thinks this project is a how to on fixing their snowcat is in the wrong place.
I love all makes of Cats..

But this thread is not about how to fix your Tucker or ??????? cat.

Sure, some things may help...
This is a down and dirty FRANKEN CAT build..

Make it up as you go....  KEEP IT SIMPLE AND AS CHEAP AS IS POSSIBLE AND YET RELIABLE....

But the decisions to make changes are best done before the $$$$$$$ are spent....

Hey troops

I am heading down to the shop to drag out a front motor mount cross member from a big block Burb to get an idea on whats going to be needed to change the existing engine mount in the 2100 tub.

Back later.


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## Snowy Rivers

Got the digging around done...

Found the GM truck engine cradle I went looking for.

It will need a tiny bit of trimming to fit into the tub.

A pair of steel angle rails down the inside of the tub will allow the factory Chevy mount assembly to drop in and be either bolted or welded to the tub

Not going to get real crazy on this right now.....I think it's best to wait until what ever engine presents itself to see what will be the best way to go.

The after market hot rod industry makes some very nice mount kits that are priced in the affordable range ($80)

The mounts are clean, neat and do not take up a lot of room, at least not as much as the GM factory piece


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## Snowy Rivers

Hey there MR BOB

Maybe I can be long winded.....yuuuuuup

But I try to make things interesting....

What sort of Cat do you have ???? GETUMUP A PICTURE....SO WE CAN SEE.

I have been waiting for 52 years to finally be the proud owner of a snow cat.

How long have you wanted and then finally been able to make a dream come true ????????????

It's fine to call smack on folks.....just be sure you have a real good case......before ya step up with the 5 gallon bucket and a trowel to lay it on with.... 

I wanna see your cat......


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## vintagebike

Keep the snowcat dream alive and your story going!  Like John Jerome with "Truck" or Fred Haelefe with "Rebuilding the Indian". Two classics from the late 20th century... and then into the early 21st


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## Snowy Rivers

I am trying hard....

I feel that if one is going to hang out at a forum like this.....you should share what you are doing..

Maybe one day you sit with a pad and pencil figuring on an idea, and the next day you are standing at the lathe or the mill machining on a part...
Maybe that part is nothing spectacular....but it's part of the project.

These ground up Franken projects take far more thought and "Imagineering" than they do actual work in many cases...

To some folks the nitty gritty details may seem like boring drivel....but to others it is informative as well as entertaining.

I love the threads with all the details and the tons of pictures.

You can see what the person who shared it has in their mind.

And no matter how much number crunching and measuring you do...along with hours and hours of thought....at times things change and ideas change...

Many times many $$$$$ will be spent and wind up sitting in the corner in boxes because the plan changed.

A dream of purpose is not an easy giddyup go....


You can't in many cases just toss money at it and make it happen....you have to have the dream, and then make it happen....and in between reality sets in and you find out something will not work the way you want it to.....

Been there many times......

Ahhhh yesss


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## KickerM

I enjoy the journey more than the destination! I always have enjoyed the process more than the end result...either way keep up the good work! And to answer your question my Mill is a Bridgeport 9x32” and my Lathe is a Seneca Falls 36” (I believe).  The neat part is that the guys dad that I bought them from made parts for NASA on these two machines for the Gemini Space Project!!!  So they may be old (1915 on the Lathe) but if they were good enough for NASA it should be good enuf for a snowcat...lol


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## olympicorange

…….  that appears to be the ''K'' frame ...4wd style ,... from the 80's era ,... I keep a few of those around myself,....


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## Snowy Rivers

Kicker

You can do a lot of work on those two machines....
Tooling is the part that cost the Bucko's

I picked up a lot of my tooling off ebay.
Many would turn their nose up at some of my tooling because it was made overseas....fact is the stuff is not bad at all.

Not sure it would hold up in a production shop.... but for a hobby application its fine.

Carbide cutters are expensive.....but again, watching ebay can net some good finds of Aerospace contract over stock items very very inexpensive....

I see you have a 4 jaw chuck   
These are so handy for getting hold of odd shaped items and being able to dial in an existing bore to do whatever is needed..

Also...grabbing a square or rectangle chunk of material and working on it..

The younger crowd will scoff at anything less than a CNC to machine parts.....but this country was built with machines far more crude than the manual ones you and I have.....

If the spindle is tight on the lathe as well as the ways being fairly snug and the cross feed...if you can hold tolerance to .002" you can do most stuff you will need for what we do..

Now if you need to get down into the .0005" range we are talking a different story.

If you are careful and you can finesse things a bit you can gitterdone..


Thanks for sharing the pix....

Olympic 

Yes exactly  1987 K Burb 

I dragged that mount out mostly to see if there was any good reason to go barking up the tree about stuffing a 454 in the Cat.

I am not really excited about that cross member as it takes up a lot of space...

See the piccy of the motor mount for SB/BB Chevy....a good maybe.

This set up is far simpler and will keep the belly access open to allow working on things....Like the starter...

I don't want clutter.....

There is going to be plenty of that anyway.

The Chevy V8 will sit such that access down through the DOGHOUSE in the van should make things like the distributor an easy reach....

I simply do not know yet where this will all wind up.

A radiator capable of cooling the big Rat is my biggest worry....

The 2100 front end is only 28 inches wide.....just not enough room down there for a big core.

It may be an idea to do a larger than stock radiator up in the Van location... and add a couple big electric fans..

Plumbing the coolant hoses should not be that big of an issue...

I wanted to be able to roll the van chassis back for good access to the engine....but with the radiator up in the van this will be an issue..

Ah hell....we will take it one step at a time..

I am definitely leaning towards this idea of the V8 power and all the drive train down in the cat as it was....


I was looking at the Cat yesterday and once the cab is off and the firewall/bulkhead is cut away...(Tilt cab 2100 has a bulkhead that the cab sits down over and bolts to...you can see it in the picture with the chevy mount) the tub will be wide open.

The existing rear tranny mount MAY be usable as is with only minor modifications....Gonna take a trial fit with an engine/tranny package in there.

Shifter linkage for the tranny is likely going to be best handled with a cable type unit.....

Maybe a floor mount......still a lot of pencil and paper and tape measure work to do.... but the entire package seems workable.

I really want to be able to use the entire dash cluster as is in the Van though.

Locate the battery in the van battery tray and wire things in using the stock harness "With slight mods)

Today though it is back to yanking out the old hydraulic hoses and getting ready to remove the cab......

I do have ads on Craig's now hunting for a couple roaches to scarf up an engine and tranny and a Van body....

And here we goooooooooooooooooooooooooooo....


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## Snowy Rivers

There is another option on the engine and tranny.

455 OLDS and the TH400 (BOP CASE)

Huge torque monster...CHEAP TO BUY TOO....
Back in the 80's I used to install these in pickups for guys wanting big power when a 454 was sooooooooooooooooo hard to find.

Just a thought


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## BearGap

God you’re long winded girl!  Let’s face we’re all looney or we would be spending all our money, time and knuckle skin to work on machines we have to trailer for hours just have fun. I’m crazy. But I think Snowy is crazier than me. It makes me feel totally normal when I read her wonderful ramblings. :th_lmao:

BTW, our friend would just have to look at the Thanks and positive replies to your posts to see how ridiculous his post was. He’s comparing you to sane people? Wrong blog dude! 
Keep it going Snowy.


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## Pontoon Princess

I see, you have changed your direction on the engine/body setup, have you considered building your own body, given the vast talents you have?


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## BearGap

I can already see where this is going. These two work together and we get the first snow cat chassis that makes sense with modern parts. Look out guys...


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## Snowy Rivers

Thanks troops

Same body..."Astro van" for creature comforts and all the body connected items.

Keeping the power plant in the cat will make a lot less work....

I agree.
Ya gotta be crazy to even think about this stuff.

My feeling is that once the ideal direction is in the cross hairs this can happen easily

I really love our little Van and hate to lose it to the Cat.

The cat is not going to care what is turning the drive shaft.

I am forced to keep the costs as low as possible......

NOBODY wants a  BOP case TH400   They are a boat anchor....except inside...all the same good stuff.

Olds sled from the late 70's are also a yard ornament.


Pontoon
No way on the body

The ASTRO has everything in a neat package.

Plug and play...just like Legos..
Body complete is way more work than I want..


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## Snowy Rivers

BearGap said:


> God you’re long winded girl!  Let’s face we’re all looney or we would be spending all our money, time and knuckle skin to work on machines we have to trailer for hours just have fun. I’m crazy. But I think Snowy is crazier than me. It makes me feel totally normal when I read her wonderful ramblings. :th_lmao:
> 
> BTW, our friend would just have to look at the Thanks and positive replies to your posts to see how ridiculous his post was. He’s comparing you to sane people? Wrong blog dude!
> Keep it going Snowy.



What sort of cat does the Other dude have...?????

I will admit...I AM OFF THE WALL ON THINGS.
BUT I HAVE A NICE 2100 THIOKOL SITTING IN FRONT OF MY SHOP NOW


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## Snowy Rivers

Got some actual CAT WORK done today.....

Ripped off all the blade cylinders and the brackets.

Hydraulic oil sucks too...
I was able to get most of it in a bucket.

I want to keep the cylinders in usable condition so I piled them up on an old disc out back with the hoses DOWN

I can get closer now....

Still a mile of hose in that beast.

Thinking about the idea of stuffing the 455 Olds engine in Cat.

A set of 5 inch side pipes right below the top of the tub rail (Plenty of room in there)
Maybe put a bit of a lumpy azz cam in the big Olds to make her sound BADAZZ....

Crazy ideas....I like it


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## Snowy Rivers

Ideas...Ideas.... and more thoughts

I am still very much into my plan to use air on the steering.

IF we go with the Big OLDS OR????? engine this makes it easy to bolt on an engine driven air compressor as compared to the Van (NO ROOM)

Way cheaper set up and far more options than the electric pump plan.....

I am still concerned about brakes

AS long as the air is up your golden....lose the air and you are !@#$^D

The 2100 had a pretty herky drive shaft park brake.

I am thinking about ripping it off the C6 and having a look to see if it can be adapted to a TH400.

This is not a mass produced lash up...so whatever needs to be done to make things work is likely gonna be CUSTOM BY ME

The Ford output shaft is a different spline count than the  GM TH400

Guess I will need to rip into it and see wasssssup.

I want to keep the factory Park lock in the tranny though.

Big trucks use a spring brake combo chamber for parking and for emergency 

Lose the air and at around 20 psi the brakes come on and you are going to stop.....PERIOD

The drive shaft brake would be nice.....Just piece of mind....


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## BearGap

You’re going to need a good getaway driver when it comes time to fund your tracks. There are a couple of rally drivers here that might be good for a winter heist...I mean withdrawal.


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## Snowy Rivers

Yeah

That thought has crossed my mind.

I am going to do a custom 2 belt set up

Using the original 2100 tire guides 
12" belt on each side of the track plus the guide area yields a 36" track
Custom grousers (I will build them )

Just about have the design worked out on the grousers.
A couple ideas that should be fine for the application.

I can get the same rated belting from an outfit up in Washington that sells to the rock bizz for conveyors.

They will cut the belts to width at no extra cost.

About $13 foot

$600 for the 4 pieces.

No these are not going to be cheap.....but far cheaper if I set up and build my own rather than step up and call the big box cat supply.

Already working on a track assembly fixture plan

Gauges to keep the pitch correct.....

LOTTSSA WORK.

My fav plan for the grousers is bar size channel with 3/4" flange and adding a flat bar up one side on the inside (Skip weld in)

This cat is going to be a cruiser and not a groomer with a blade....so we can keep the tracks a tad lighter.....

The beasts that were on this machine were heavy as chit....

Was a handful even for my skid steer. (It was on tip toes a couple times moving the big track)

I would like to keep the total track weight per side at around 600 pounds or so. (Even 800 per track)
The 2100 tracks at 57" were nearly 1200 lbs  maybe more.

I am hoping to be able to get a set of tracks built for around $800 or so.

PLUS SOME SKINNED KNUCKLES and BLUE AIR.. 

Tracks are only vaguely on my mind at the moment.

Still have a buttload of hoses to rip out of the cat.

The OC12 has to come out and I am going to have to rip it all the way down.

Weather is crap starting tomorrow.

Today I was fooling with a midland air compressor off one of our Army 6x6 trucks.
This bad boy will bolt up nicely to the Big V8  and is belt driven.

A far better plan than electric pumps (May consider a backup single electric as a getum home safety)

High speed air pumps are just a pain to source in a belt drive, and since we had this one laying on the shelf...why not.

This virus BS is putting a crimp in my style....I want to go take a peek at a 455 Olds engine to power the project.

But still I am trying to do something meaningful every day.

EVEN IF IT'S ONLY GETTING ONE HOSE OFF THE CHASSIS.

OMG I want to get serious on this.

With the cab tilted I can't even sit in it now and make snowcat noises :th_lmao:

Hey

Thanks for the reply......

I am being careful now not to get all excited and buy a bunch of parts until I am sure what is going to happen with the power plant/tranny

455 Olds and TH400 is the goal

Far less spendy than the big Chevy....and plenty of engine....yeah buddy.

I am feeling blessed now that there is a real snow cat in front of the shop though...


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## Snowy Rivers

Hope this finds all of you Cat Freaks healthy.....

Weather is nasty here with wind and rain, so not much other than a few tape measurements done to check on the ideas for the new power plant location.

I have a small project running that's inside work....but am waiting for some gaskets and seals to arrive.

Next week the weather is looking better...Hope to get back to removing the old hydraulics...

Best to all....
Stay safe


----------



## olympicorange

…… S/R,.. you have a lot of decisions to make,...but they work out as you move along.  i'm guessing you're going to install an air dryer into your air system, to help with moisture issues.  one suggestion for back up reserve air; you could ''tuck'' away a couple spare air tanks, with ball valves on the outlet side, plumbed into system for an emergency. like an accumulator, for a short distance, or to get it out of the way, from being stuck in the trail.  an elec. /aux. backup air compressor, may work.  as far as a driveline parking brake assy. , on the back of a TH400, is quite rare.  more common on a 4L60/4L80.  just sold one recently.   another idea ; for a p/b;  using a ''trolley'' valve setup, like for a T/T brake for the trailer service brakes;  plumbed into the brake band actuators (from either air supply) , to lock up the brake bands,....  just a few ideas to clutter up your decisions....  lol


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## Snowy Rivers

UH HUH

Decisions....oh yeah.

I am at a nice crossroads at this time.

Many things can be explored and looked at right now without really committing to anything 100%

As much as I like the idea of the drive on/off plan there were some serious flaws that very well may have been bad.

Going with the engine back in the Bilge of the beast is likely a good idea overall.

A TH400 box is another plus.

I LOVE big blocks A LOT

BUT... the fact is I do not need all that power.....break stuff.....no no no..

The engine used most for projects are the Chevy Mouse motor.

Everybody makes goodies to fit them.

Mounts, brackets.....everything is cheap too.

I called on a 305 and a 350 yesterday.

Not going out until this virus thing is gone.

A 305 will also cool real well with a stock Astro radiator too...

Leaning that way....(Small block)   and they are cheap to buy....

And likely will not break anything valuable...


As soon as the virus is off the table I am going to trip the hammer on something.

I don't want to do it twice.....


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## BearGap

What do think that machine will weigh?


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## Snowy Rivers

Good question......

Replacing the 391 with a small block will knock off a bit (100 lb)
Removing all the hydraulics,  hoses, pumps, valves, filters, tank, the blade rigging with cylinders, roll bar, cab will likely knock off 1500 lbs maybe a bit more.

The Turbo 400 is similar in weight to the C6.

Lighter tracks should knock off 1000 lb

Add back the van body and the needed steel tube to support and mount the body to the 2100 tub......

Factory weight on the 2100 was close to 7000 lb

I am gonna guess somewhere in the 6000 lb area.

The van curb weight was listed as  about 4000 lb
Remove the engine 425#
Tranny and front cradle 500#
Rear axle 150#

Crunching the numbers.....6000 lbs seems reasonable

A Spryte is about 4000 lbs 

The frame and tub on the 2100 are much heavier than the Spryte frame.

It will be interesting to see what it turns out to be.

We have a DOT scales close by and so we can weight it...

I am not particularly worried about the weight....with 36" tracks it will be workable...

I am guessing at a lot of things on this build.... certainly not your basic snow cat rebuild and fluff up....

Every turn of the corner leads to more questions and HOW DO WE SOLVE THIS issue???...AND WILL THIS FIT ??? type of thing... 

Far more mental work on this type of project than simply beating on the tin and fixing up somebody else's design...

I spent several hours yesterday mulling over what to do for a tranny shifter..

Cable stand alone floor shifter  (Winters side winder seems to fit the bill)

The column shifter in the van is basically more trouble than it's worth due to the electronic position display.

And on it goes....


----------



## Jim_S RIP

> Crunching the numbers.....6000 lbs seems reasonable



We could have a contest. Closest to actual weight with a full tank gets a free ride.



My entry is 6,233# ( subject to update if you decide to install the auxiliary Perkins diesel from your sailboat instead of a V8)


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## Snowy Rivers

Coooooool

I was just cruising through engine out the front posts at the Astro/Safari sites

A used van with a dead engine can be very cheap.

Getting the engine out is a pain.

These go up from the bottom when new.

But GM made marks on the core support and a kit to cut the core support and remove the engine out the front

I do not want to fight getting the cradle out the bottom in the yard in front of the shop  (Hoist is needed)

Just getting the dead engine out...trans too is all we need.

If need be we can take it out a piece at a time......

Leaving the front suspension will make getting the van on the cat chassis much easier.

Rear axle can stay too.....yes these add a bit of weight, but the biggy is getting rid of the V6 and 4l60 trans
 I Still come back to a bracket on each corner at the lug bolts to anchor the van.
Easy, cheap and very sturdy

I am limited as to how much heavy lifting we can do here as we do not have a hoist...just the skid steer and the little tractor.

Engine lift...no worries, we have one of those...

Tranny...cut it loose and it will find the ground.....

Having a set of those micro spare tire/wheels on 4 corners will allow moving the van and getting it on the cat

The thinking on this is beginning to get very tiring, but should make life far easier and much less trauma on the pocket book when it comes time to roll the van onto the 2100.

Far too many mistakes that cost big $$$$$$$$$$$$ can be made when attempting a Franken project.

Been there before and regretted the mistakes a lot.... mostly the $$$$$$$$ spent that was wasted......

We shall see what shakes out on the weight ....


I have a friend who is retired from Boeing (Last year) and we have discussed this project in depth.

He mentioned many times of how stuff is built in the computer and everything is looked at and tested  (Then things still don't always work)  737 max


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Weather cleared a bit and I'm suffering cabin fever bad.

Grabbed the tools and went after the Cat.

I wanted to get as much of the hydraulics nightmare out as possible.

Fitting are in places that no sane person would dream of putting them.

A lot of hoses were started at one end and then the last clowns just built on them as they went.

I started up at the front and plowed into the beast.

Getting some of the hose fittings loose was a real nightmare to say the least.

But I am at the point that whats left is connected to the cab (Rear hydraulics only) so I am going to coil them up and tie them to the cab with the open ends down to keep water out....Somebody is going to want the cab....and having the controls usable.

Terribly sloppy gooopy mess

A bit more work and the cab can come off and we will be ready to muck out the bilge..

After things are a bit cleaner and the weather warms the OC12 can come out and come apart......


A few pics

One showing where I started today.

And the pile of hoses and other crap....


----------



## vintagebike

We have a 2100b waiting,  but maybe not...


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## Snowy Rivers

Need anything ????

Tilt cab
Hydraulic pump
Priority valves (3)
Electric emergency hydraulic pump
Complete disc brake on the rear of the C6 
Differential oil cooler pump assembly with filter
Main hydraulic filter assembly

These items need a home

Also have most of the blade and rigging


----------



## KickerM

Howdy Snowy,

What does the pump look like and the priority valves? Was the pump front mounted on the front of the engine crank pully?


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Pump was front mounted driven by a cog belt

There are 3 priority valves in the cat.
The piccy is of the two that were on the LH side of the tub
There is one still in the cat, but with the cab tilted It's gonna have to wait until I get the cab removed  (Soon as the weather improves in a few days)

Here are some pics of the parts..

The system was closed up until the other day....oil looked good.. 

The pump ports are plugged now to keep crud out.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Weather is horrible and can't get much done outside on the chassis.

But.....I had planned on a set of rear hydraulic brakes and now was a great time to get going on building some of the parts.

One of our members "Snowcatcrazy" did a nice job adding outboard brakes to his 2100 based Chevy van

After looking over the pictures he had posted of his set up I decided to go ahead and use parts I already had sitting here on the shelf.

The Astro van has a lovely hydroboost brake system and simply rerouting the brake lines from the front calipers on the van to the rear of the cat is a no brainer.

The extra rotors, calipers and knuckle were just perfect to modify and mount.

Here is a piccy of What the other fella did....

I disassembled the suspension parts I had and got a plan going.

Tossed one of the knuckles in the mill and started chewing off the extra appendages that are just dead weight.

The cost of all new parts although not staggering is hefty....and the used materials will be just fine and using the front caliper from the van chassis will keep the system basically intact.

Today I need to clean up the mill area as it is getting to be a mess.

Then the knuckle goes back on the table and the last large bump comes off

The factory knuckle will work sweet to hold the caliper as these are non bracketed calipers


----------



## Snowy Rivers

I appreciate the "Likes" troops

I know the some may find this stuff boring and "Uncat" like.

Fact is that a ground up build using bits and pieces can be very distracting and end up wobbling all over the place with little seemingly unrelated projects going on.

Yesterday was pretty mundane.....

Tore into the other brake knuckle and ripped off all the extraneous parts.

Got it all down to just the knuckle, caliper and the rotor.

I do not feel all warm and fuzzy about hanging the caliper on a bracket without support from the axle as the original does.

I am leaning towards adding a bearing into the original bore that the wheel bearing occupied to support the entire brake reaction assembly, and then adding the bar to the frame to vector the turning motion....

Doing this will take a lot of stress off of the reaction bar that fastens to the frame.....

Technical stuff.....nothing real fun to see or talk about, but now is the time to sort it out while there is nothing in the way on the frame (TRACKS)

Good weather coming up....Gonna finish dealing with the last hydraulic lines and then get the cab off...

Really tired  of dealing with that big orange lump that's in my way....

Gonna be great to finally get into the bilge with a shovel and clean out all the crap....

Not much else at the present....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Update on the brake engineering...(Imagineering)

Spent a couple hours measuring and fiddling with the Brake hardware yesterday...

The plan is looking really good now.

I need to fabricate and machine (2) two adapters that will allow the 5 bolt Astro brake hub to bolt to one side and the other side to bolt to the 2100 axle (Piloting into the sprocket and using the original 8 lug studs...albeit we will need to swap out the studs for longer ones to allow the extra flange to fasten up)

I need a piece of 4" schedule 80 steel pipe and 4 round burnouts  5/8" thick x 7-1/2" diameter 

The dimensions are looking good...just need to get a wheel guide off of a track to finish calculating the distance out from the sprocket to set the brake assembly.
It would suck to end up with the tire guides hitting the caliper 

Lets hope I can get some materials today.

Weather is really looking nice for several days.

Time to go after getting the cab off the tub......

I will get pix when I have something new and interesting.



Found a steel shop in Salem, Oregon that should have what I need.

Their web site says they are open during the virus thing.

I will call them as soon as they open up this morning


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Well I called the shop in Salem...They only sell the 4 inch steel pipe in 21 foot lengths....I DON'T THINK SO////

Found a steel outlet closer to me that had the 4 inch schedule 80 pipe AND they had a huge selection of water cut rounds.

I got 2 feet of the pipe and four 1/2" x 8 inch rounds. $62 for all of it....

The water cut rounds do not tear up the carbide tools  

I got some measurements off of the wheel guides and was able to get some good dimensions for the length of the adapter.

The plan is to torch the bolts off of one wheel guide and get it out and in my hand so I can be really sure of the offset for the brake units....

Some pics of the steel pieces and the brake unit sitting with the sprocket....

With the good weather I think tomorrow will be a day to work at getting the cab off of the Cat...

But .....with the steel parts I can start whittling away and build the brake units....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

THE CAB IS FINALLY OFF

Got after the cab this morning and worried out the rusted bolts holding the cab hinge onto the tub.

Then came the tedious task of grinding off the welds that some clown slobbered on the hinge to fasten it to the tub???????

A bunch of 7/16 bolts holding the hinge on, so why weld it.

After a couple hours of careful grinding the cab was ready to come off.

Still gonna have to weld in and fix the gouges I put in the top rail of the tub.

No real biggy....just a Pain in the butt.

The skid steer made quick work of the cab removal once it was loose.

Tomorrow the plan is to start mucking out the bilge.

Got the little tractor handy to carry the junk off to the burn pile.

I am thinking that the next step is to jack up the rear of the cat and get the Diffy out and start getting it apart.

I know the drop boxes have water in them, much as the diffy did.

Once the diffy is out it will be a good time to hit the bilge and the rest of the cat with the big hot washer.

If we can get this virus thing out of the way I need to scare up a Small block chevy and a Turbo 400 to start getting the mounts and such figured out.

While the diffy is in "Waiting for parts mode" I can fill in with working on the disc brake assemblies.


What fun.


----------



## KickerM

Can you tell me the measurements of the cab? Basically around the base?


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## Snowy Rivers

51-1/2" front to back
44-1/2" side to side


----------



## Snowy Rivers

More chopping and cutting.

Got out the Sawzall and whacked off the roll bar and the forward tilt cab mounting bulkhead.

Pretty well getting the tub down to the bare bones now

The bulkhead fittings in the front for the hydraulic lines where they pass through the tub still need to come off.

A bit of grinding and smoothing where the front cab bulkhead welded on still needs to be done.

I have breakfast on the books now so think I will get out the square point shovel and go after the muck in the bilge.....


----------



## BearGap

Is a 292 c.i. too long for you? Hard to beat them for down and dirty torque. I drove a 366 industrial in a C50 back in the 80s. That was a tough motor too, but $6500 to rebuild one even back then.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

The plan is to use either a 305 or a 350 V8

Loads of ready made mounts and such.

I want to keep the length short.

Big torque is not really a big deal with the low gears in the rear axle...


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Removed the transmission cross member as it looked bent.

Yes it was bowed down in the center at least 1/2 inch 

Took it to the press and shoved out the old rubber mounts and tossed them in the garbage.

Got a straight edge out and checked the mount....yeah buddy...

Did some shoving on it and it is now straight again.

I intend to reuse this mount with the new engine and tranny....
May have to modify it some to accept the Chevy rear mount....but we will see as soon as I get the tranny.

Still shopping for a long shaft 400 as it will take up the extra area that the original tranny had the disc brake mounted.

Removed the front motor mount pedestals as well today.

The tub is looking pretty bare now.....

Soon it will be time to yank out the OC12 and go after it.

While under the front of the cat I got my first look at the front axle.

OMG ...What a train wreck.

Gonna have to set up the 20 ton bottle jack and do some rigging.....The old scabby patched up mess needs to come off the axles Left front side by the tub and then straighten the beast up.

I will know a lot more once the axle is out on the ground and I can get eyes on it....

It's salvageable, just gonna need to do a bit of shoving on it is all........


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Yesterday started off with big plans.

I decided to get the OC12 out of the Cat....

Started jacking up the cat to get more room to drop the box out.

After getting things jacked up I walked past the Right rear track wheel and it looked odd...decided to take a peek.

Gave the wheel a spin. OMG ...the thing wobbled all over the place and sounded horrible.

So I thought it was a good plan to make sure the axle spindle was not trashed.

Got it apart and to my delight the spindle was fine.... bearings were absolute junk though.

Cleaned everything up and installed the other new hub I had purchased on that spindle.

Figured I would check out the rest of the wheel bearings.

Some are definitely bad, but nothing alarming.

Decided to clean up the hub I took off and get it ready to receive new bearings and seal.

While I am cleaning up the hub my air compressor starts making bad noises......
By the time I got into the shop the beast it shedding pieces....

40 year old machine...been run hard and put away wet too many times.

So cat work stopped and compressor work started.

Compressor shot.

Got a pump only over at HF and now I gotta make it fit.

Bolt pattern is not the same, air piping needs to be moved.

Arrrrrrrrgh

I do not want to buy a new compressor (Complete) as I put a new motor on this one and a new pressure switch last year......

Some plumbing to do for sure.

But I need my air tools to get back to work on the project.....

And so it goes.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

All back in the saddle.

Said ~!@#$ it and took the replacement pump back to HF and picked up a complete new compressor set up.

Got their 29 gallon unit on wheels.

Always something eh ???

So now back to doing meaningful work on the cat.

One possible good outcome with this compressor issue..... I need an air tank for the Cat and the old compressor tank is a perfect fit across the inside of the tub to the rear of the tranny.....At least there will be a use for the old tank......  Another lease on life


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Well...not much to report.

Dropped off one of the half way decent tire/wheels off the cat at the tire shop and had them get it off the wheel.

I want to wire brush the inside of the wheel really good, polish up the rim edges and then paint the sucker with some decent rust inhibiting paint.

I chose a gray color to match the alloy front rims.

Took a good session with a big azz putty knife scrapping more of the crud out of the tub.

Just about as good as the scrapper is going to get it...then its time for the hot washer.....

So much fun...


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Life is good.

Got a call yesterday on a Craig's list want ad I had running.

I was looking for an engine for the 2100 van cat.

A fella had the front Sub frame off a 1977 Camaro with a Chevy 305 and a TH 350 Tranny.

Runs and seems fine.

It looks like it has a story to tell too.

The block is indeed a 305.

Block is blue, heads and Valve covers are black, timing cover is Chevy Orange, pan is blue....


Somebody been into it.

Complete from fan to tail shaft and pan to carburetor.

Starter, alternator, water pump....pulleys....

The Fluid in the TH350 is nice and pink too...

Eventually I will get into both of these units.....but for now a washemup and that's gonna be it.

I need to make some lifting brackets for both the tranny and the front of the engine to allow me to pick the entire package up level and sit it in the cat with the skid steer.

We wiggled the critter up onto the trailer with a chain and a come along.

The driveway was on a pretty good decline, but one flat tire kept things from getting wild on the downgrade.

So.....Kitty got's an engine and tranny..

Took some pics and tossed the frame on Craig's list

Someone is in need of a Camaro sub frame that's in good shape....

Took a bit of time l;ate this afternoon and started pruning all the crap off the engine.

The carb is an old Q jet and pretty sad looking.

I am thinking about a Holley Spread bore with electric choke.

The engine has the old mechanical fuel pump...

I love it.

Will remove the electric in tank high pressure pump in the van and convert things to a simple suction tube...Probably add an inline electric pump to prime the system......


This setup is gonna require the power pack be removed to do any work on some stuff....

The starter should be removable through the 2100's starter access hole in the RH side of the tub....may have to make the hole a tad bigger ?????


Great deal on a complete power pack..

This engine is/was an LG4 
305 4 barrel carb....It may have had dual exhaust too....but that cat is gonna get 5 inch side pipes....because I can.


----------



## Snowtrac Nome

I would rather have a 350 or 400 but the small block chevy is one of the greatest engines ever and like the 1600 vw engine parts are every where and affordable


----------



## olympicorange

……..   SBC power,..  the 307 was the most underated engine of that era  ,...  it was 200 h.p,...  out of the crate.  a sleeper .   and the 305 was thirsty ….


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## Snowy Rivers

YUUUUUP....The mighty mouse motor. 

I grabbed this deal simply because it was an assembled package (Runs)
So many engines listed for sale are  "Yeah...it ran when I pulled it out"

With much stuff missing like the flex plate, accessory brackets, yada yada yada.

The LG4 305 was rated at 170hp...although not a screamer or a torque monster it will get the project powered up...

The best part was the super cheap $325 price tag.....and the very real possibility of selling off the sub frame and recouping some of the $$$$ maybe all of it.

Yesterday I got the engine off the trailer and parked near the cat.
Ripped off all the extra junk and got the power pack ready to come off the cradle.
Motor mount bolts all out and all the wires and hoses are now on the junk pile with the crap that came out of the 2100...

Figured out a nice lifting rig to pick up the entire package LEVEL.

Stopped off at the local steel supply and  got some square tubing and a few things.

The engine had a single lift lug on the Left front top of the intake....headed to the U pull it yard and scared up one more to allow the rig to hook up at both front corners and the at the rear of the tranny.....


The new front mount I ordered arrived last night on the Little brown truck....

Here in a bit I will head down and get started on the lift rig.

Gonna add a slipper tube on the lift rail to allow things to be adjusted for a perfect balance.

This should make the install into the cat a walk in the park.

Sadly...from what I am seeing with this is that working on things is not gonna be real handy once the entire Cat is assembled

Seems that this scenario is a common malady with a lot of cats..

We will see as things move ahead......

I can see an access hole in the tub to allow starter access though...

Nice thing about using the mouse motor....at a later date after things are at least operational but more or less complete, a fresh 350 can be put together and replace the little 305.......


As I have mentioned a few times before....any time I have the possibility of buying something for the project and then selling off unwanted/unneeded parts and recouping $$$$$ I am all over it.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Got after building the lift rig for the small block this morning.....

A bit of measuring, cutting and welding...

Decided on an adjustable lift point to get things just right.

Took about an hour and a half to cut and fab up the rig, get the lift chains all cut and things hooked up.

I had the rig hooked on the tractor just to get things right, but decided to try a lift and WOW....THE UNIT CAME OUT PERFECTLY LEVEL.

Dragged the Camaro frame off and got it out of the way...

Opened up the box of goodies that came.....Nice stuff.

Measured things up and got ready to cut the mount to length....but dinner got in the way....YUM YUM  Home made spaghetti ....

Reading over the paperwork that came with the engine mount....then after thinking about things....the rear tranny mount that came in the Cat is gonnna need to be modified.....Same company makes the rear tranny mount too.

Decided to just order one.

Be here in a few days..

These two mounts will make a very clean setup....

Just need to drill holes in the tub is all.

I want to get the tub washed out now while I am waiting for the tranny mount..

Once the mount is here the power pack can be dropped in and I can start getting the crankshaft angle set to match the pinion angle in the OC12.


I want the engine as low as possible, but the driveline angle has got to be right in the groove.

The driveshaft has two double cardan joints, so angle rules can be broken without much consequence....but I want the shaft to run as smooth as a baby's butt.....


The shaft is a two piece unit...the front section has a slip yoke with a single cardan joint that goes into the tranny then a short shaft to the carrier bearing...  then a slip yoke to the first double cardan joint (Constant velocity) then the second shaft to the rear double cardan joint to the flange that bolts to the OC12   (Custom diffy flange on the OC12 to mate with the CV shaft)


This shaft is a stock unit from mid to late 90's S10 extreme pickup.

The plan is to use the shaft as is to keep it a stock off the shelf part..

There were issues with these shafts as they came from GM....mostly the fact that many joints did not get the center ball greased and owners never greased them....

The CV center ball must be greased every 30K or so.

When I pulled the shaft apart the center balls were dry as a bone with zero sign that they had ever been greased.

Rebuilt now and should be sweeeeeet.


Weather is going in the toilet....so not sure what will get done over the next few days.

If the rain is not terrible....maybe drag out the big hot washer and go after the tub..


----------



## Snowtrac Nome

you cant use  tranny any more, you have to be PC and call it a gender neutral mount.


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## Snowy Rivers

Ugghhh.

I am not into PC at all.

:th_lmao:

Auto transmission OK


----------



## Sno-Surfer

Looking at your last picture with the tarp over the engine, what's the vehicle behind the engine in the trees?
Been enjoying your work, ideas and all your energy and looking forward to seeing this take shape.


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## Snowy Rivers

1995 Suburban 2500 4X4 With 454 power.

We call it "The big mule"

We use it to haul the trailer around and drag chit home...

Mostly we use it in the winter time to haul the trailer and the dumpster to get nut shells for the pellet stoves

3 YARD DUMPSTER ON THE CAR HAULER


----------



## Snowy Rivers

SNO-SURFER
Thank you....

Seems that no matter what I do, it ends up that I have to take on another SUB PROJECT to get things done.. (Building the engine lift)

Raining this morning...arrrrrgh

I pushed the big hot washer out near the shop door, and once this little spritz is over I'm gonna go after the cat.

Even after mucking out the tub with a shovel and then a big putty knife it's still yucky in there.

I really want to get the engine set in and figure out the locations for the two mounts and get them located.

While the diffy is still in the cat I have a good reference to set the power pack to.

I have a feeling that once the diffy comes apart it will be a while getting it all cleaned up and new bearings and such installed...so decided to get the basics on the engine/trans location done..

There will no doubt be down time with the diffy while parts are ordered and coming...

So I will be able to work on other things with the engine and such.

The front axle is tweaked and needs to come out and be straightened....more work......


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Surfer...

We are almost neighbors 

I am about 15 minutes North of Newberg on Chehalem Mt.

If ya get down this way let me know....y'all are welcome to stop by for a visit...


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Raining....wet out....great day to wash out the cat.

Dragged out the big Landa 4-2000 MG unit and went after the cat.

Cat is pretty clean....I am wet and filthy now.

All the dark places in the tub are where the 2000 psi @180 F water blew the paint off...or rusty spots.

Eventually I want to paint the tub in and out..
Likely use Rustoleum and call it good.

Not sure on the color.

Maybe a neutral color that can go with whatever color Van we end up with.

Something that makes it easy to see in the tub....

Definitely not a real fan of the orange for this cat.

Sure gonna be nice to not get coated with greasy goop every time I get close to things to try and do something.. 

Likely not going to blow off the engine/trans just yet....I don't want to blow any water into the engine with the high pressure.

Depending on what shakes out...the bare bones minimum I am going to do to the engine is to clean it off well and replace the soft plugs.....

These suckers will no doubt be corroded inside and could be ready to leak.

Looking at the old trans mount and the idea that it might make a really swell mount for the center support bearing occurred to me...

The center support has to mount in the tub, and the old cross member will easily move back a couple feet....Drill some holes and bolt it in.. 

With all the stuff removed from the tub the poor thing is looking like Swiss Cheese with all the open bolt holes...

Ahhh well......  Custom stuff that's made over usually has extra holes.


----------



## alryA

Thanks for posting photos of your project.  Bully frames are 100% open on the bottom but the cab is a separate box.  But I'm sure you know that..


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## Snowy Rivers

Actually I have not had any experience with the Bully cats.

I know they are hydrostatic drive which simplifies things a bit.

Not needing a mechanical drive shaft and the planetary drive differential really makes a big difference.

I sort of like the enclosed body tub though....keep the crud out of things.



The Thiokol 3700 Hydromaster was the next incarnation of the big groomers from Thiokol/LMC/DMC after the 2100 Packmaster
Very similar drive to the Bully.


----------



## KickerM

I think engine to tranny to drive shaft to diff is way simpler....The 3700 is simple in theory....I.e. Engine drives pump, pump powers Hyd motor; but that’s where the simplicity ends. Having had to reconstruct a 3700CF, there are numerous Hydraulic lines for Forward/Reverse, Pilot, Charge Port, Return, Summing, Balancing, Restriction, Hi/Low Swash Plate, and Parking Brake...and they all have to go through various valve bodies to help confuse the flow alongside the dozens of auxiliary hydraulic hoses and bodies/valves just to make it easier!!!
Here’s the Main Hydraulic System of the 3700C


----------



## Snowy Rivers

You nailed it Kicker  "In theory"

I have not worked on a Hydro cat, but have had my hands into the skid steer loaders which are similar in operation...

I am not a fan of of all the oil.

I did look BRIEFLY at a used 3700 and it was a brief glance.

Now we can look at the newer Hydro machines with all the added computer systems that are on them.....OMG Noooooooooooooooooooooooo way..


That schematic looks like the one for the latest computer CPU ...Well maybe not quite......

A hydro cat is definitely not the route to go for the budget cat owner for sure...

Once the pumps, motors and valves start getting tired there is a funny sucking noise that starts up......IT IS YOUR WALLET HEADING INTO A VACUUM.

Just the simple hydrostatics on a skid steer can be very spendy for sure..

Ah yess...much good to say about keeping things simple..

We can see where things have gone with our pickups and cars (And even heavy equipment)

If you don't have a PHD in computer science and a big $$$$$$$ diagnostics tool....forget trying to fix anything on the later rigs.

This is the reason I am trying to keep my cat build  using simple stuff like the old school HEI ignition, a reliable carburetor and a non electronic transmission....

The ignition is pretty simple....Keep a spare cap (Large type with coil in the cap) and a module in the on board parts box.

Good old Holley Carb too

A stand alone fuel injection would be way cool.... (Work sweet in high angle and rough bouncy applications) but starting down that path scares me..

Something that's tough to deal with if it fails out in the boonies...


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Got the Skid steer up here next to the cat to see about hanging the engine in the tub for a quicky look see...

Nope...not gonna gitterdone....Cat is too wide and the skid steer will not reach the center.

OK....as I mentioned earlier...seems as though there is always a side project needed to make stuff happen.

Scrounged around in the shed and found some pieces of channel and tubing.

Put on my Rube Goldberg hat and went after an extension to give us an extra couple feet of reach.

Ended up with a pretty good extension...The chain and D ring secures it so it cant flip loose.

1 ton Yale air hoist is a sweetheart for sitting engines in rigs.

There is a piccy of it hanging on the Skid steer back several pages.

The hoist has a throttling valve to allow very slow up and down travel of the chain too....or fast up and down.....


Got the new engine mount trimmed to fit in the cat...

Going to make a 1/4" shim plate for each side to allow the mount to be easily removed from the tub.

Once the engine is located the bolt holes can be drilled and the end caps on the mount can be welded in place

The trans mount is on order and should be here by weeks end or so.....lets hope.

In the mean time I think we can go for a test lift and fitting to see how it looks in the tub...

Should allow for some ideas to coalesce as to how things are going to come together.

Maybe now some real Cat work can happen..

I am thinking that the lift extension for the skid steer can help when removing the OC12 too......

May need a lift attachment to allow the hoist to hook on the Diffy.....

We shall see....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

OK....Got some real honest work done on the cat today...

Rigged up the engine on the air hoist and cranked that bad boy skyward.

Sat the beast on the side rail and did a test fitting of the new engine mount.

I had given thought to modifying the new mount and using the original Camaro motor mounts.

An hour of fiddling with the mounts and looking at things and it became obvious that the new Trans Dapt mount was pretty good right out of the box....

Bolted that unit on the engine and then got busy getting the engine into the tub for the first time.

OMG.....SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET.

Plenty of room all the way around to get to things like spark plugs, wires, starter (Will need an access hole in the tub....make the one there bigger.

Got the engine sitting on blocks to allow it to be as low as possible without hitting the floor of the tub.

The engine mounts are very close to the original mounts that held the big Ford 391.

Got things spot on front to back and side to side...

Tomorrow I need to get the S10 2 piece drive shaft in the tub and see if the length is going to work right.

I have hopes that the shaft can fit in it's "stock" length.

That would save $$$$ and extra work.

If the shaft length is good to go then I will check the angles on the shaft to see if we are even close.

If need be the engine/trans can go fore/aft a bit to make things fit....

Once these items are in order the next thing will be to transfer the front engine mount holes with a transfer punch and then drill them.

I want to install a 1/4" shim between the end of the mount (4 bolt flange) and the tub.

The original mount holes are right around the new holes and the old holes can be drilled through the shim plates  (Help add stability)

The old Packer has more damned holes in it than you can shake a stick at.....

Not sure what I want to do with all the extra holes.

Some are just going to get bolts put back in....others might get welded up ??????

Starting to actually look like something good is happening... 

One thing that is starting to become obvious....by the time the engine is actually located and the van is mounted high enough to clear the engine and other gear....this bad boy is gonna be a tall beast.

I got a call today regarding another track.

We shall see wassssup with that.

Going to leave the old girl in the big 57" shoes for now.

Just way too much $$$$$$ and work at this juncture.

I can revisit the tracks later and worry about a narrower set.

The big FAT BUTT look gonna be cool.....

Just a side note.

Thinking about painting the inside of the tub a light gray (Silver) to make it easier to see in there to work on stuff.

Paint the outside of the tub and the frame FLAT BLACK.

With this color scheme any van color will look great......

Maybe paint the wheels all silver.....


----------



## Jim_S RIP

I like the little hat the carb is wearing!


----------



## BearGap

It would make a bad ass single seater.


----------



## BearGap

Picture


----------



## olympicorange

…….  S/R,..  looks like your ''stinger''  worked well and did the job.    here's a pic of one of the ones I use,..this one is on the front of a JD6310.   as far as all the holes in the ''tub'' ,... the easiest thing to do is fill them with hardware,... and if you mix it up, with different sizes and lengths,... if you need any out in the ''sticks''  ,  you'll have them with you,....otherwise just counterweights,....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Yessssss..Gotta make the equipment gitterdone... attachments are the real deal.


The top hat is my parts washing pot (Stainless Jello bowl)
Great for doing bearings and stuff as it never rusts.

I grabbed it to keep the Carb stud for poking a hole in the tarp....
Rain is still in the the forecast and I do not want my prize full of water.

The little 305 may not be the prettiest girl at the ball....but at least it will make things go.

Before I stuff it in for good I want to steam clean it off and get it a tad nicer looking.

From what I can see the package is usable...at least for the time being.

Trans oil is PINK...GOOD SIGN  

Future plans include tearing both the engine and trans apart and going through them.

Heads have been off the engine (Different color) so likely either somebody replaced them for for zip in the mini mouse...or there may have been an issue...

Doing a "TAILGATE" overhaul is likely...Rings, bearings, seals and such.....

Nothing crazy....just a freshen up.

Trans would include seals, clutches, upgraded sprags/roller clutch a shift kit....maybe a few other goodies depending on what I find after opening up the box.

As far as a  single seater ??????  probably not 

I am a old fart....gotta have creature comforts ya know.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Got out the S10 EXTREME drive line and tossed it in the cat.

A bit too long....I had hoped it could fit in stock length...but shortening the short single joint section is easy.

Gonna wait until the engine is fully mounted and the diffy is repaired and back in to cut the shaft.

The overall package is looking good.

Got out the magnetic protractor and got some readings

Diffy pinion is at 90 degrees as is the tub 
The engine is at 88 degrees

Need to lift the rear of the trans a bit to get us spot on.

The new rear mount will be here Thursday says the tracking ###

Got the front mounts marked for drilling, but will wait until I see wassssup with the rear mount before yanking the engine back out again.

I really don't think I could ask for a better first fitting than this has gone.

After the rear mount is cut to fit and things are checked for final position the mounts end flange units can be welded onto the cradle tubes.....

Just like Legos.....


----------



## PJL

Okay, it's late and I'm tired so I hope this isn't a dumb question.  Doesn't the driveshaft need a carrier bearing in the middle?


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Certainly not a dumb question...not at all.. 


Short answer...Yes it does

Long answer

When I bought the shaft back this winter I got it from a drive line shop in Tacoma and they had to scrape together the pieces.

The rear section (The double double) was in the Tacoma shop and the short singe cardan section was at the Seattle shop.

They shot me a price on the pair AS IS and shipped them down to me.

The carrier bearing was not on the shaft as it had been cleaned and put on the used shelf for sale or ???

I am waiting on buying the bearing until I get good data on which type will best suit whats needed in this application.

As soon as I get the rear mount and get the power pack located with bolts and not just blocked up with wood....then I will look at the situation and make a decision on which bearing type to get (Several styles available)

CARRIER BEARING COMING SOON TO A CAT NEAR HERE..

Actually...when I tossed the shaft in the tub I was primarily interested in where things were as far as the length of the shaft was concerned and if I had any serious issues   AS IN TOO SHORT OR WAAAAAAAAAY TOO LONG...so it was just a Quick..lets see what this looks like before we get too far down the road.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Spent time looking for the proper yoke to slip into the transmission.

The Driveshaft has all Saginaw 3R series u joints.....I did not want to mix and match on the u joints....

The prices on a new 3R yoke to mate with my existing short shaft were a tad bit past what I was willing to cough up....

Headed to the local U pull it yard and we cruised down to the Astro van lineup...

Right off we hit on a 1992 ASTRO with a factory original type front yoke.

Still had the injected plastic retainer on the u joint 

The shaft had been munged a bit by the large forklift when they set the van in the yard.....No worries....I only wanted the nice yoke with the vibration damper.

$49 for the shaft and 15 minutes to slide under and unbolt it....

Got it home and in the vice...hit the yoke with the torch and melted the plastic out....these bad boys can squirt hot plastic and one needs to be aware of what can happen.

Much easier the beating them out or breaking the plastic in the press.

Distorting the yoke ears can happen if one gets too rough with things...

Sweet little yoke.

Once the shaft is complete I think a trip to the balance shop would be well worthwhile....

Getting the entire shaft assembly balanced will make a very smooth running drive train.....


Very pleased to find the exact yoke I wanted right off....we got back to the yard office and the sky opened up and it poured for an hour....

We were lucky not to have gotten soaked.....


Another piece of the puzzle taken care of......

Rain is still in the forecast over the next few days....Once the rain ends and I can get back onto things the front mount holes in the body need to be drilled.

And onward we go....

Sooooooo much fun.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Got some good dimensions around the front of the engine down low on the left side...
GREAT PLACE TO MOUNT THE YORK COMPRESSOR to handle the air needs for steering.

Then the realization that the Vans use a hydroboost brake booster (Plan is to reroute the front brake lines back to the rear outboard disc brakes by the sprockets.

Disc brakes generally will not work well without power assist....

Always something that needs to be sorted out.

I had no intent of having any hydraulics on this cat.

The steering box will be basically useless other than allowing the van to be rolled onto the cat chassis.

But I had forgot about the brake thing.

Arrrrrrrrrgh

Well...decided to try rolling the van down the hill with the engine off and the hydrobooster accumulator exhausted (Manual brakes)   Ahhhhh...bad plan..ya really got to have your heart in your work on that one.

GM did not use a vacuum booster on these because of the space needed in the area in front of the cowl.

I want to keep the factory brake system intact and just connect new lines at the front wheel house location where the soft lines connect.

There are aftermarket dual diaphragm vacuum boosters that are 7" in diameter and they are very affordable.

There looks to be plenty of room in the area of the master cyl/hydrobooster to get one in....

These units will not provide as much assist as what the DOT requires for stopping the van...But the cat is not gonna be rolling at 80 mph down the hwy either and the small vac booster should be perfect.

The other issue is these boosters require a fair amount of vacuum Inches-Hg

I plan to stuff a bit of a lumpy cam in the 305 soooooooooooooooooo...may need to bolt on a vacuum pump off a 6.5 GM diesel to assist in the SUCK....

Gotta save the room for the air pump down below...

Another issue sorted out.....


----------



## PJL

I'm wondering how badly you really need the extra disc brakes.  The LMC1200 uses the OC-12, it weighs a tad under 8,000 lbs.  It stops just fine using the steering brakes.  It has no foot brake.  The brake off the back of the transmission is for parking only.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Under normal circumstances I would agree 100%
With the air system I am setting up on the OC12 there is really no easy way to feather the pressure to the air brake cans.

The steering bands are on or off.

The Spryte controls with the hand levers actuating the indididual master cylinders will allow for light pressure right up to full pressure.

The 2100 had hydraulics run off the main hydraulic system and they were/are pretty much on and off.

My second reason is that having the outboard disc brakes as a separate system will allow the same sort of brake control as is available in a truck or SUV ??????

If the air system should have a failure there would be a very easy safe way to stop and control the cat.

Snowcatcrazy added the outboard disc brakes to his big van/cat 2100

Seems that they had an issue coming off the Mt and things got real hinky and damned near put the cat off a cliff...

After that fiasco he installed the rear disc brakes.....

Installing a pressure regulated valve system to the bands gets more entailed and trying to pack all the controls into the drivers area of the Van will get quite cumbersome..

I have thought of using to treadle type valves with handle to control them.

Sadly the little Astro has so little room to add much ion the driver area.

Even the full size van is somewhat limited for room as well..

I built the attachment that fastens to the steering wheel to control the air to the bands....but the valves are on/off type and feed off a master pressure regulator that feeds the system.

Before we get to that part I may explore things a bit more and see what can be done.

There has been change orders already....why not make other changes 

NOTHING IS CHISELED IN STONE ON A Frankencat.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

There is a valve that could be used IF there is enough room to install two of them on the steering wheel control bracket assrmbly

These are air brake truck trailer brake control valves.

Two of these would allow pressure to be varied from Zero up through a maximum of whatever is deemed MAX pressure for the bands.


As I said...change orders are always in the pipeline.

Air from the tank to the hand valves...then to the relay valves for each air chamber.

When X is applied by the hand valve the relay valve will apply X to the chamber.

This would allow a light pressure on the band all the way up to hard locking.

I'm going to need to look at one of these valves and see how much space they take up....

If two of these can be mounted on the operator station I have built that sits on the wheel....we might be golden.

Certainly could save a lot of extra work and materials.....for sure


----------



## loggah

My big oliver- cletrac FDE model has air steering assist you can steer it with 2 fingers. this differential is the same as a oc-12 only bigger,oc-18 I think Landis zimmerman cletrac has the steering vaves. but there probably pricy!!! Heres a picture of the tractor,and  at work when it was hauling pulp for great northern paper up in Maine.Don


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## Snowy Rivers

Thank you for posting the cool pictures.

We had an HG Cletrac here at the ranch for many years....The little HG was a baby compared to the Big brute in the pics.

There are many valves available that can be used to run the air steering, but the big issue is size...

Trying to keep the valves in a size range that will fit in the operators area is a tough one.

I am glad to see others offering ideas and asking questions....this may end up helping find a really cool solution.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Weather is making things a tad nasty outside...

The rear trans mount came last night.

Got that bad boy out of the box and trimmed to length.

The overall location of the engine and trans are really close to the factory setting.

Got the trans mount bolted to the trans.... GAWD...WHAT A PAIN WITH THE TRANS CLOSE TO THE TUB.

It is doable, but it takes a bit of finesse to get the bolts in.

Once the mount end caps are all bolted up with the spacers between the end caps of the mounts then the tube gets welded to the end caps.

Finished getting the front mount spot on and then used a transfer punch to locate the top holes in each side.

Next step is to remove the power pack and drill the holes in the tub.

I have some 1/4" x 6" x 10" flat steel to go between the mount ends and the tub......The shim

The old engine mount bolt holes will get used to secure the shims as well as the new holes too....

Tedious work getting the engine spot on as far as straight with the tub C/L

A touch here, a bump there and a clamp here or there to keep things from moving.

A few pics

One nice thing...the mechanical fuel pump is a breeze to get to  on this beast.

Thinking about the fuel system as bit.....

Likely will cut an access port in the floor of the van to be able to access the fuel Pump/gauge sender in the tank....

Modify the unit to swap out the high pressure pump and maintain a simple pickup tube.

Will add an electric low pressure pump to be able to prime the mechanical pump if need be.

The easy access up front and some lovely places to mount the electric pump and a nice filter.

The oil filter on the little Chevy mouse is a pain to get to.... A remote filter up front will be an easy fix for that issue as well.

An oil pan drain extension hose like those used on boats will get the drain out to the front of the cat as well.

So many things to deal with that present themselves as time goes by.

I am thinking about a deep pan with an extended pickup tube for the trans...

Anyway....
Moving ahead...


----------



## olympicorange

Snowy Rivers said:


> There is a valve that could be used IF there is enough room to install two of them on the steering wheel control bracket assrmbly
> 
> These are air brake truck trailer brake control valves.
> 
> Two of these would allow pressure to be varied from Zero up through a maximum of whatever is deemed MAX pressure for the bands.
> 
> 
> As I said...change orders are always in the pipeline.
> 
> Air from the tank to the hand valves...then to the relay valves for each air chamber.
> 
> When X is applied by the hand valve the relay valve will apply X to the chamber.
> 
> This would allow a light pressure on the band all the way up to hard locking.
> 
> I'm going to need to look at one of these valves and see how much space they take up....
> 
> If two of these can be mounted on the operator station I have built that sits on the wheel....we might be golden.
> 
> Certainly could save a lot of extra work and materials.....for sure



 ,...….    these are generally referred to as the ..''trolley'' valves.  you can apply a lite amount of air pressure,...or wide open ,...up to 120 psi.   spring loaded hand control, back to neutral.     also , in an ''over the road'' truck ,... a lot of rigs have an ''applied '' brake pressure air gauge on the dash, to inform the operator on how much air assist pressure is being delivered,... easy enough to plumb a pair in also,....


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## Snowy Rivers

Oly orange

Yes....I spent over 20 years in a big rig and about 2 million miles

That is what sparked the idea of maybe using the"Trolley valve"

My one worry is the possibility of someone dragging the brake bands.

I learned to drive a crawler on a little Cletrac HG  same rear box as the C4 used in some Sprytes

Owned and operated this beast from 1995 to 2012
Retired in 2012

That rig had the trolley valve....I ordered the truck with it as some don't come with them.

That rig had every goody and gizmo I could get on it.
500HP Cat 3406E
18 spd Fuller
2 speed 46000 pound tandems with air lockers.
Heavy duty frame.....
We ran 105,500 gross weight all the time....paid a lot better than standard 80K

No stranger to rigs with air


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## Snowy Rivers

OMG
Life is great.
Fella called on the Craig's ad for the Camaro sub frame
He left about 30 minutes ago...

He was happy as a clam and I have my engine and trans free and money in my pocket over and above the original cost.

He did not want the core support...so now that's listed back on Craig's list..

Gawd I love getting to use my $$$$$ more than once.....

Time to do more cat things...


----------



## PJL

Free is good!


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Yessssss it is...very very good.

Also keep the flak down for spending $$$$ on projects..


----------



## Jim_S RIP

> He was happy as a clam and I have my engine and trans free and money in my pocket over and above the original cost.



That’s the way it’s supposed to be!  Both parties to the deal happy!


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Yes indeed.

The sub frame was really clean...as far as rust goes.

Needed a good blast with the hot washer to get 40 plus years of greasy crud off....but the paint is still on the frame.

Had everything else including the pwr steering box and sway bar, disc calipers and good rotors too.

A great deal for us both.....best part is I don't have to look at it sitting in the yard with the rest of the scrap iron from various projects....

And of course the sweet little 305 and the TH350 sitting in my cat is the icing on the cake.....

Guy did not want the core support and the bumper attaching hardware....more booty $$$$....maybe pay for a new carb or some goodies for the cat....

Now if I can find someone who wants a 2100 tilt cab to take home and love....life would be real sweet.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Extra cat parts pictures


----------



## loggah

Looks to be a valley engineering blade setup made in Grey,Maine. Do you have the hydraulic steering actuaters that bolt to the seat? i could be interested in them for spares if you want to get rid of them.thanks Don


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## Snowy Rivers

Don
At present I have an interested party in the cab and other stuff.

Lets see how this progresses.

The actuators are still in the cab....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Had a very productive day today.

Lifted the engine back out and went to work on making the 1/4" shim to utilize all the extra bolt holes right around the motor mount.

The blade lower mount had a bracket that bolted onto both sides of the lower tub...
Several holes left after the brackets come off.

The RH bracket is still on the rig....the last crew did a bit of welding on it...
Looked as though it had been wiggling and they welded part of it to the tub.

Gotta cut about 6 inches of weld off.....

A nice hole behind the bracket that will be sweet to remove the starter if need be..

Did the layout of the shim plates and was able to use a transfer punch to locate the holes from the tub onto the plates..

12 bolts on each plate.
The original 4 mount bolts, the 4 new ones and 4 left overs from the blade lift bracket.

A lot of holes in the old Packer for sure.

After getting the shim plates drilled and bolted in (My supply of bolts has left me.....I need to get a bunch of 3/8" x 1 inch bolts.

The new mounts came with bolts, but they are 1-1/2" long.....too long

At final assembly I will use lock nuts on these bolts to keep the stuff from rattling loose.

After getting the mounts secure and the engine sitting free of the lift the angle of the crank shaft is spot on...

The protractor shows a nice 90 degree reading.

So now the crank is parallel to the OC12....Sweeeeeeeeeeeet..

Front mount is welded to the end plates....will need a bit more before it's all done....I did 3 good tack welds to secure things

The next order of business is to cut the shim plates for the rear mount and transfer the bolt holes from the old rear mount and also transfer the ones from the new mount.

The trans is sitting on 2 x 4 under the pan....things are perfect.

I want to replace the pan with a 3" deep aluminum pan with a extended filter..

Get a bit more oil volume and allow for a bit more  operating angle too..


Weather closing in again....not sure whats in store as far as getting much work done this coming week....we shall see.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

After thinking about the post OLY ORANGE made concerning the "Trolley valve"

My years of experience in a big rig had always had a trolley valve as a fairly large valve that mounted on the steering column RH side.

These valves are pretty good size and I had dismissed them early on in the design phase of getting an air steering system put together simply because of the size.

After Oly mentioned it recently I decided to revisit the idea and started cruising the Web looking at various trolley valve pictures.

BINGO.

Freightliner panel mounted valves popped up.

Decided to dig deeper and these bad boys looked like a perfect fit for the job.

A slight modification to the steering wheel mounted control panel and two of these valve can mount in nicely.

Pushlock hose fittings that accept the 3/8" and 1/4" nylon DOT brake lines

Sweeeeet

The valve is designed such that it has a spring return to ZERO and the layout will suit this application well.

Another plus....Off the shelf item that's available easily (Napa heavy parts or just about any truck supply house....

Found two of these on ebay $50 for the pair.

Will give these a good looking over and get the control station modified.

These valves will greatly simplify the air system....

A regulator that will keep the air pressure at no more than what the bands need to lock up tight mounted at the tank....and a relay valve near the OC12..Simple yet very affective...

I like it......

Thanks Oly Orange for mentioning this subject.......


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## PJL

Nice, like Loggah's tractor you can drive it with your fingertips.  Pulling both will stop the cat.  If you can rig up a driveline brake that would be pretty effective as an emergency/parking brake.


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## vintagebike

While driving a Tucker Torpedo with skis on the front at Jug Mountain a few years ago it was difficult to turn on the tight trails.  So when redoing 1949 Sophie we replaced the rear axle with a disc brake unit from an 1998 S10 Tahoe SUV but removed the anti-slip parts.  Each side uses its own vertical pull back drift brake lever mounted on the transmission with one electric actuator for both parking brakes.  Should turn and stop on a dime.


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## Snowy Rivers

Yeah buddy....FINGERTIP CONTROLS 

Still thinking about using the rear disc brakes though.

I like the idea of a separate system that applies full and varied brakes.

In the event of an inexperienced operator in command, the natural tendency in a sketchy situation is going to be...STEP ON THE BRAKE PEDAL

The vans brake system will still be fully functional and just lengthening the hydraulic lines and a little bit of work will get the system fully operational as a backup.

Unplug the ABS unit and remove the lamp in the dash.

This sucker will be annoying as it will not see signals from the output shaft sensor or the wheel sensors.

Unplugging the ABS will allow the brake system to function just fine to do whats needed.

The trans park lock will still be usable as well.

With the low gears in the butt end there will not be much tension on the park pawl.

Using the trolley valves will really simplify the hose s needed to the operator station as well.

Black line...Supply air
Blue line...Left side relay valve and air chamber
Yellow line...Right side relay valve and air chamber
Two 1/4" lines from the hand valves (Exhaust out to the engine bay)

Far simpler set up than I had before...

Also the trolley valve will allow for a gentle nudge on the steering to correct a slight direction change instead of a full on application.

Our old Cletrac used the C4 box and a slight nudge on the hand lever would give a little correction....

Anyway....I am very excited about this change order.....

Be nice to get rid of the lettering TRAILER BRAKE on the handles.....ah well
Maybe fill in the letters with JB weld and paint the handles black.....

Franken cat thing ya know..... Reminds me of the Johnny Cash song about his buddies car  "One piece at a time"


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## Snowy Rivers

Vintage bike

Most definitely will work sweet.

"Cutting brakes"
I had a similar thing on a sand buggy.

Two levers to independently activate the wheel needed to be able to steer when climbing steep dunes when the wheels up front were off the sand or ????

Oh yess


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Got to work on things and discovered that the engine placement had somehow slipped to the LH side by about 3/16"

A bit of snooping revealed that the engine cradle tube was a touch long on the right side and when I pushed the engine over with a small jack just before tack welding the mount ends the RH side of the tub had flexed a bit.

3/16" is not much....but I was not going to let that slide.

Decided to lift the power pack out, remove the front mount assembly and FIX the anomaly.

Got the cradle back out, cut the tack welds loose and cleaned up the two end pieces.

Sure enough...the RH end of the cradle tube was hard against the inside of the end bracket (Weld to the cradle tube at assembly)

No room to allow the engine to slide over freely......

 I cut about 1/4" + off the end of the cradle tube and reassembled the mount.

Dropped the power pack back into the cat, bolted things up and aligned the engine.

Spot on this time with the engine sitting on the mounts freely.

Tacked the mound ends back onto the saddle tube....


ALL GOOD TO GO NOW 

Now its time to get the rear mount shim plates cut and the new holes drilled.

Cut the RH lower blade bracket off of the tub....The last crew had welded it partially to the tub..... real mess....Looked like a flock of seagulls few by and Chit.


And a good time was had by all....


----------



## Jim_S RIP

> real mess....Looked like a flock of seagulls few by and Chit.



could have been me.  Thats a signature of my work.


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## Snowy Rivers

Unless you use a stick welder????? then not yours 

Looked like either 7018 rod on an AC welder or some 6011.

Very nasty welds.....

I learned to weld on a stick machine and then transitioned to a Mig years ago.

The company I worked for for 20 years had mostly AC stick machines.

The Boss was just sure that Mig was no good and that the welds would just break off....

Go figure....

We finally went to mostly Mig machines after the old fart retired.

I bought my Millermatic 250 back in early 90's

Been a sweet machine.
I added a spool gun for doing aluminum in 97 or so.

I had purchased a new Dump truck transfer rig with aluminum tubs and figured sooner or later I would need to weld on them....I DID...

The clowns that had been wrenching on the old Packer just hacked everything they touched....

But it's all repairable.... pretty much cut and chopped off all of their crap.

Going to weld up a few extra bolt holes I don't need, and touch up some other stuff that is just too ugly to leave out where it can be seen.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

WAS GONNA
Get after the rear trans mount yesterday....buttttttttttttttttt, Tuesday when I was redoing the location on the front mount there was a little issue.

I had the entire power pack hanging on the rigging from the bucket of the skid steer, and while I was working on the front mount the hydraulics slowly bled off a tad bit.

The unit drifted back into the tub and the rear mount hung up on the side of the tub and put a bit of a strain on it.

The mount had twisted a tad bit from the weight and this put pressure on the rubber rear mount assembly.

While sitting the assembly back into the tub the rear cradle assembly was hanging a tad goofy.

I made note of the anomaly and went ahead and finished getting things back in.
The rear of the trans pan is sitting on a piece of 2x4 (Gave the proper height) until the rear mounting cradle is securely bolted into the tub.


Yesterday I removed the rear cradle and sure enough the cheezy rubber mount had tore loose on one side....

Definitely not a stellar piece.....
The last thing needed is to have the rear mount get loose and allow the drive shaft to go wonky and break stuff.

I ordered up a urethane mount that has the safety interlocking parts that will not allow the mount to come loose even if the urethane fails.

The Trans Dapt mounting hardware look pretty good and fit great....but the rear rubber mount was a POS......

New one will be here in a few days.

Good time to sort out these issues and not after the beast is all together.

Another little item popped up too.....THE EXHAUST is going to run down each side of the tub (Inside) and this could cause an issue in the future if the power pack is/was to be removed for service or ????

The exhaust could be run below the rear cradle, but this is going to make doing the exhaust a tad bit of an issue.
I can get the local exhaust shop to bend the needed tubing, but without the machine in his shop getting the bends just right is gonna be tough.....

Decided that running the exhaust over the top of the rear cradle is best and the new rear mount comes with studs/nuts and washers and will readily allow the trans to be unbolted from the cradle.

Should the cradle need to be removed one of the shim plates can be unbolted and slid out allowing the cradle to slide rearward and the turn sideways and come out of the tub.

Another little possible annoyance is the starter.

There is an access hole (Chopped in the tub by the last crew) that gives pretty good access to the starter....

Butttttttttttttttttt.....getting any leverage to hold the starter up to the engine is gonna be really tough.

I have looked at the mini gear drive starters and these look like a great plan.....still, holding the starter up to the block is gonna be tough if at all possible.

A cool little wood cradle "Tool if you will" can easily be constructed to hold the starter just barely below the block and allow the bolts to be inserted and tightened.

Also thinking about adding a REMOTE wiring pigtail from the starter to run forward to a junction block...there is plenty of room up front in the tub to be able to fasten this stuff in and make things a walk in the park to connect.

I absolutely hate a design that makes important parts tough to work on.

Now is a great time to deal with this stuff.

Once the van is on top of the pile there will be a whole new set of issues me thinks.


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## olympicorange

………   absolutely,.... when modifying a project, lots to consider.   besides quality , function, durability, performance, etc.....  one of my main focuses is always the ''poor bastard'' that has to make any kind of a removal/repair , of any component.....   if you can't build it easier /better , than a damn engineer to work on,....well  ….  what's the sense of even starting ,....


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## Snowtrac Nome

with a gas engine run your exhaust high as you can my diesel had started leaf fire in the tub the first year I had it and yes the vegetation in the tub was imported up here with the cat.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Copy on the combustibles in the tub.

Today I welded the cover plate that had been under the disc brake on.
Sometime in the past somebody had cut two access holes in the floor of the tub and welded nuts on to bolt the plate covers in.

No way to get under the rig to get in there, and I do not have a service pit.

Decided to weld the covers on so they won't shake loose and get scraped off.

I got the tub clean now...
Not quite clean enough to paint, but the gunge is gone.....

Orange.

Serviceability is paramount.

There will no doubt be an item or two that will cause some issues when servicing....but I am trying hard to think through stuff and not end up building a BOAT IN A BASEMENT.

A couple issues.

The starter.

Once the van goes on top it may be a booger......but there appears to be some access through the front wheel house openings and in through the front end.

Radiator will be up top in the van body so the area right in front of the engine will be open.

Some form of bolt on plate will likely be what covers the large opening in the tub where the original radiator was located.

I am fiddling with several ideas for starters.
May try one of the little mini Denso starters.

Possibly construct a "Tool" to hold the starter up in place to allow the bolts to be installed.

The transmission control is being a bit if a pain.

The Vans use a cable shifter that requires  a special switch that bolts to the 4L60E trans to illuminate the shift quadrant in the dash..

The TH350 does not have any way to connect this stuff.

A stand alone floor type shifter with a cable seems to be the easiest solution....but the cable has to be installed on the trans. and then threaded into the vans operator area...

Looking into the idea of running the shift cable forward to a crank assembly with a rod running back to the trans.

Gotta make it easy to assemble and adjust.....

I looked at a couple of fully electronic shifters.....but they has a myriad of power/control wires and are very spendy....



It may come down to building a custom  shifter from bits and pieces and mounting it on a bracket between the front seats.

There are two heat ducts between the seats and they are under the carpet.

The seats sit on a riser/stool and have plenty of material to mount a bracket on that can serve to mount shifters????????


The cable can go forward and out the cowl alongside the doghouse  and then curve back towards the rear on the drivers side.

I really want to get a good plan hatched before the van is mounted....

I DO NOT want to be scratching my AZZ and looking at the thing UH DUHHHHH   OH CHIT FRANK...

Some stuff is fairly straight forward.....but getting a reliable shifter has to be right on and not a sketchy maybe type thing..

I don't want crap that leaves me stranded some place.....

Wiring is more or less a NO BRAINER....Add length and connect the sensors and such that match the ones on the van engine to the 305 V8

Same with the starter wiring.

The throttle cable is another item that may end up being a booger.

Specialty throttle cables are available to connect most applications to just about whatever you can dream up.

The V8 will be nearly right below where the little V6 once sat....should be an easy go....SHOULD BE.. 


The exhaust is not gonna be tough....lottsa room for the pipe/mufflers.

Trans cooler lines are easy too...
Likely run braided hydraulic hose (Type with reusable field serviceable fittings)
Run them to a manifold near the front of the tub and then jumper to a cooler in the grille area....
Possibly use the stock cooler in the radiator, but I do like a stand alone oil cooler.....

These tend to cool better than running the oil through the hot water in the radiator.

OMG
All sorts of things to think about......

My kingdom for a good cad program .....


----------



## olympicorange

……..  so,  is the van going to be removeable still,....or permanently  mounted to Cat,.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Ah....sort of a two fold answer.

YES it will be removable easily.

Originally I had planned on making it removable and drivable under it's own power.

After deciding to place the Chevy engine in the belly (Original location) the factory van engine and transmission is coming out completely.

Going to leave the front and rear suspension and use that to facilitate a quick and simple way to connect the Van to the Cat,

WHEEL HUB FLANGES AND LUG STUDS using a fabricated bracket.

In order to be able to do some repairs or remove the engine and transmission the Van will be able to roll rearward on a pair of steel channels that the tires can run in. (Will be part of the structure added to the top of the tub)

Simply unbolt the anchor brackets at each corner and slip on a tire/wheel
Thinking about using 4 of the mini space saver spare tires for the purpose of ON AND OFF.

With the van body rolled off (Or possibly have a pair of channel extensions here at the shop)

Rolling the van back about 4 feet would allow complete access to the engine, or rolling back a tad farther would allow the entire power pack to be lifted out as has been shown in pics recently......Or taking the van off completely if need be for ?????   Drive shaft access is not going to be easy anyway ya look at it...so roll off is a necessary evil...


Long story short yesssssss.

This is why there has got to be good planning on several things that WILL/MAY/PROBABLY need to be unhooked easily.

Throttle, shift cable, electrical, air feed into the van.......

Not a hard task...just want to do it once and have it work right.

I have already bought things that are never going to be used..... Guess this is what we shall call "Engineering Costs"

With ideas spawned here by others things have already changed some for the better..... Much appreciated my friends


----------



## olympicorange

……..  roger that,...  yes , any & all plans can & usually change as things evolve for sure.   well, that's what it was sounding like, as to why I asked.   now to add to your complications..lol  .     I know it's been done before , so you may not want to consider it , but here goes.....    pulling all the suspension & everything else out of the underside of the van,  build a ''sub-frame'' for the van to sit on... and make it ''pivot/tilt/ liftup'' , by means of hyd. cyls.,    to access all those things in the ''tub''.    you could employ an electric dump body pump/reservoir set-up to operate the cyls.  it-s a rather compact unit. and would only be used for & when to lift van up & out of the way.   your floor mount tranny. /pedestal shifter could stay in place , foot paedals on a floorboard mount could also, and things like that.   electrical cords, wires, air lines , etc.   could have enough lengths to flex/stretch/bend, etc.  for the ''pivot'' process.    and then you wouldn't have to unload, disconnect , or any of that fun stuff.      I know it's following others that have done it before , but may simplify your tasks at hand perhaps,.... as they say ...''my 2 cents'',.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

I looked at the "TILT...PIVOT" IDEA and have hashed about a lot.

Using the intact suspension front and back is a zero cost option.

Adding the tilt option is going to add $$$$$ to the picture.

Being able to simply roll the van backwards some, or roll it off onto our big trailer (Height is pretty close) is a no cost option.

With the van out of the way one can access any part of power train with ease.

Even with the tracks on the machine it will be easy  (Toss a couple sheets of plywood on the tracks and go at it...Or drop the tracks loose and walk right up to the side of the tub)

I really like the tilt up idea.. but if it's a side tilt the one side will be a pain to get to.

Again my big issue is the added cost.

 The night is young though....plenty of time to make changes ....

I'm expecting the new rear trans mount Monday....then the rear saddle can be finished up.

Then it's on to getting the OC12 out and apart.

When the OC12 goes back together the pinion yoke will get replaced by the custom flange unit I built to allow the CV flange to connect.

Once the OC12 is back in the cat the drive shaft can be cut to length (Front short section needs to be shortened a few inches and the yoke welded back on)

At this point  the exhaust can be dealt with and built.

I am hoping to have the cat chassis pretty much complete this summer.

Still snooping for a different van (Bad engine and or) one with nicer body and interior.

I keep hoping things will pick up speed a bit....
But actually a lot has been accomplished since getting the cat home....

Just want the project done ya know 

Ahh well...patience.... NOT ONE OF MY STRONG POINTS:th_lmao:


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Yesterday was a so so day.
Rained off and on....but I DID get some work done.

I cut the rear trans mount shim plates (1/4" x 6" x 6" steel) and located them over the original rear mount bolt holes.

Transferred the hole locations and drilled the holes in the plates.

The new rear mount did not show up Saturday as scheduled...so no go there.

The Fedex delivery shows the mount is on the truck for today....
Hard to say when it will get here....likely later today towards evening?????

Once the new mount is here it will not take but a few minutes to bolt it to the X member and then get after locating and drilling the holes in the tub.

Once the new holes are drilled in the tub then they can be transferred to the shim plates and those drilled too.

Getting closer.....

I do not want to move the tub (Lifting to get the OC12 out) until the rear trans mount is secured in its location.

All quiet here until parts arrive.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Fedex has not arrived yet with my mount..... Arrrrrgh

Decided to take a peek at the exhaust manifolds on the engines RH side as the rear bolt is missing.....

Manifold off and Hmmmmmmmmmmm.....the rear port on the 305 manifold has a wide spacing between the bolts and the outlet goes between the bolts....

The heads are likely off of an early 350 as the bolts are standard spacing.

I want manifolds that have a more rearward facing outlet and I do not want to fight the 40 year old studs out of the manifolds.

The RH side had a thrashed heat riser (flap removed and shaft welded)

The RH side also uses the metal taper type cone on the manifold and the pipe just clamps up with two bolts.

I want the soft donut type seal that uses the 3 bolt flange and springs for the constant torque type set up...

Soooooo.....

Off to look through 5 bazzilion pictures of chevy manifolds to find ones that give me the outlet where I want them.....and the 3 bolt flanges with the soft seal biscuit....

Finally after a hour or so of searching pictures.

Dorman 674-156 and 674-157 manifolds.

Yessssssss....

Amazing how much hacking these old things get over the years.

Found a RH manifold on ebay and made an offer....

We shall see.

I want the exhaust to be as simple as possible to install and service if need be.

Picture of the manifold that's going back on....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Finally got the new transmission mount (The good one)

FINISHED transferring the bolt holes to the tub and then to the shim plates.

Got the rear mount all squared away and bolted to the transmission, a little trim on the cross saddle to allow the transmission to be moved about 1/8" more to the Left side.....

All centered up now and the rear saddle tube welded.

The bolts that came with the kits were way too long, so gonna have to hit the Ace hardware bolt rack and get a bunch of shorter bolts.

For now this section can be put on hold and it's time to rip into the OC12.

DEPENDING ON THE WEATHER.....I can get the cat jacked up enough to drop the diffy out and get after it.

This part of the project is not what I had planned on doing at all.

Finding water in the diffy was a real let down....but at least things all turn and should be fine after a good cleaning and a bit of buffing here and there to get the rust off stuff.

Will be nice to have the diffy done and ready to go.

Did more measuring on things and it's looking pretty much like the bottom of the front bumper on the van is going to be between 45" and 48" off the ground/floor.....

To get plenty of room to scoot the van forward over the engine, and to possibly gain a bit of extra room to access things on the engine these numbers are looking pretty solid at present.  GONNA BE A TALL WHIZZ BANG


Also decided to go with an aluminum radiator and mount it in the front of the tub close to where the 2100 radiator was originally.

The aluminum radiators do not break the bank and they are much better than the plastic tanked units used in the van.

Also mounting the radiator lower will eliminate any issues that might come up by trying to pump the coolant way up into the van radiator...

We shall see.
Thinking about using a coolant fill tank and mounting it up in the van engine bay and filling the system that way to assure the system fills full and does not air lock the heater core in the van.

We shall see....


That's about it for now....

More pics as the diffy comes out and apart.....


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## Snowy Rivers

OK.....

The little Freightliner trolley valves arrived yesterday.

Perfect size to do the job needed.

Could not stand it, so I sketched up a bracket to mount the valves on the operator station I already had built...

Absolutely sweet...Run the controls with one hand.

Palm on the foam rest and the levers are quite easily maneuvered.

The valves use standard 3/8" air brake tubing and the valve bodies can be turned slightly to allow the tubing to feed in easily without extra fittings....

This setup is gonna be the CATSASS.

A regulator at the tank set to max psi needed to fully lock the band and not over stress things.

A full valve pull will lock the band, or a slightly less pull to get a nudge to correct while traveling at speed.

Also these valves will only require 3 feed lines from the rear of the cat.
1 line from the tank/regulator
1 line for RH side
1 line for LH side

Each valve has an exhaust that goes to the outside...


Pix of
The little angle plate in the mill ....bored the holes to allow the valves to fit.
Made a template to locate the holes where the black front bezel screws in from the back side.

A couple shots of the unit sitting on the wheel.

very comfy to access.

That hideous BLUE noodle has got to go....Ordered up a black one for $9

Once the kinks and bugs are worked out the plan is to bead blast the aluminum assembly and then paint it flat black.... Should make it look decent.....

Sort of blend in with the black wheel and column assembly....maybe even look like it was supposed to be there...


----------



## PJL

I've put about 150 hours on an OC-12 equipped LMC.  The correct driving technique is to pull the lever all the way back so that the steering band stops the drum completely.  This will result is jerky steering but it's normal. If you feather the controls and slip the bands it will overheat the diff after awhile and cause premature wear on the bands.  Looks like your setup will work really well.  Enough pressure to to stop them but not so much as to slam the bands on to the drums.


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## Snowy Rivers

Yup...pretty much.

My experience with the OLIVER crawlers of yesteryear ( OC4-OC6 AND a couple others) I would agree 100%

Constant slipping of the bands will certainly wear them and the drums out quickly.

We found that at higher speed (Relative term) that a harsh application of the band was just obnoxiously annoying and a quick light "bump" would make a small correction in the direction of travel and did not seem to cause any issue

I think that with heavy tracks, a blade and working the unit hard that the full on application of the band is about all you can do and keep things alive in the box.

Likely why the 2100 used the hydraulic system to control the bands vs the hand pulled levers on the master cylinders like the Sprytes and other smaller machines.

Back in the day when I ran the Spryte grooming for the snowmobile club we replaced bands in the Spryte every year.

Several of the people who volunteered to groom just could not be convinced DON'T DRAG THE BANDS

Every summer we replaced bands and or drums or both.

The one season that I ran machines at the ski resort I did run a couple of the 2100 machines and I never cared for the harsh jerky steering on them, but after learning more about them and then actually owning one and getting a good look at the innards.....Pretty much the only way that they could operate and keep the OC12 alive...

Also the setup on the 2100 eliminates the learning curve of the operator as far as how to apply the steering properly.

Back when we had the Oliver crawlers I learned the technique early on as the old man was a tough task master and did not appreciate having to replace bands.   

I think the air steering will take a bit of a learning curve to get things in the groove, but should be fine.

What you mentioned "Slam the bands to the drums"   this is what I was worried about.

Having been an auto tranny tech back in the day we used to install shift kits to help keep the gear boxes alive.

Lazy sloppy "Smooth" shifts eat up clutches and bands, add the shift kit and things get rather obnoxious but the parts live.

Bringing the band application on in a nice "pressure curve" rise to full pressure should be sweet   I HOPE...


I am still looking for a definitive number as to exactly what pressure the factory used at the band cylinders.

I have heard and read many different numbers.

The brake chambers are made in many different sizes and this will allow getting any pressure on the bands needed....but I need a firm number of PSI to calculate what size chamber to use.

Too big and or too much air pressure and things will break....  bad ju ju


----------



## olympicorange

……   heat created by slippage also will cause ''glazing'' of the linings ,...which creates all kinds of issues, operational clichés, etc....  you can also install two ''brake applied '' air pressure gauges , on the delivery lines to chambers.  which will help on your psi application/testing.  once you find the ''happy place'' , you can apply to that psi each time,.... plus will help any other operators also, not familiar with the system.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Orange

Great idea on the App gauges... 
On my Steering wheel mounted operator station there is a large area on the right side that I had planned to use for mounting connection manifolds and such

Should be enough room for some "Happy place gauges" 

The top edge of the control station just to the right of the control levers would be a great spot to bolt on a piece of flat aluminum with 2 holes for the gauges.

This would put the gauges in view of the operator so they would be useful.


Sort of like these bad boy happy gauges 

A simple T in the line at each gauge with the line going back to the rear to the air chambers


----------



## olympicorange

……….Nice,...…….


----------



## loggah

In my 2100 operators manual it states the operating pressure on the steering slave cylinders is 400 psi. you would have to run a fair sized diaphram to equal that with air pressure.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

The 2100 slave cylinders are 2-1/4" in diameter....approx 4 square inches of surface area.

@400 psi that will  be 1600 pounds of force on the band link.

A type 20 brake chamber is 20 square inches.

80 psi on the chamber will provide 1600 pounds of force..


Very easy to achieve the needed PUSH

Could move up to a type 24 which would only require 66.6 psi.

Will need to see how much room is available in the rear to hook up the brake chambers.

Should be plenty......

Pix of a type 20 chamber (Black)
Pix of a type 24 chamber (Gold color)


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Got busy today ...and not the way I wanted to.....arrrrrrrgh
A friend called up and told me her home AC was not cooling at all.

She said the fan in the condenser unit was running.

Figuring that the beast was just low on R22 I grabbed my gauges and the 30 pound pail of 22 and head out.

Get the gauges all hooked up and the valve on the tank of R22 WILL NOT OPEN.

OMG
PUT A PLIERS ON THE VALVE WING AND NO WAY.

Sucker has been sitting in the storage shed sine I installed our AC here in the house back in may of 1994.

Well....so much for that job.


Came home just bummed out.

Grabbed some tools and went after getting the drop box guards off the 2100 so I can move ahead on getting the diffy on the dirt....

Someone in the last crew threaded on a fine thread nut onto two of the coarse thread bolts.... and then add rust...OH BOY WHAT FUN.

Those bad boys came off....with a great amount of brute force and awkwardness ....

But now the kids are here for the afternoon....

I need a fresh carburetor for the little mouse motor....been looking at the possibility of an aluminum intake and a fresh carb, or maybe just a fresh Quadrajet on the factory manifold....

I am leaning towards just a fresh carb....

Really do not need to replace the intake....not gonna make squat as far as what we need for power in this beast.

New carbs are $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$...a top notch rebuilt QJ is about $300

The QJ will do a fine job feeding the 305.......

I thought about an Edelbrock carb.....but along with a square bore...Carb the cost gets a tad higher than I want.

Still thinking...


----------



## KickerM

If you win at pull tabs go for the Sniper Holley EFI Kit!


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Yeah buddy.

Lottery or other lucrative pass time.

I decided on a rebuilt from National Caburetors  an ND4478 

Set up to handle the 305 and the 350.

They have good reviews.

Electric choke and will bolt right onto the existing manifold.

Don't really need a fancy anything, just a good reliable carburetor....

The factory fuel line (steel) will bolt right on from the mechanical fuel pump too....

Just want this to be a simple set up with as few hard to get parts as possible.

A small block Chevy in stock trim is about as simple as it gets.

The engine has the factory Large Cap HEI distributor.....these are nearly bomb proof.
Don't really need the carb just yet, butttttttttttttt...having it on the shelf ready will make things better later.


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## Snowy Rivers

Well...the rain is back now....the new carburetor for the little 305 is on it's way.

Then came the harsh realization that we need an air filter.

A factory chevy one would be nice.

GM has not used the  Quadrajet 4 barrel since mid/late 1980's

So off to the U PULLIT YARD WE WENT.

Cruised down to where they keep the old gm rigs.

BINGO....Scored a complete air cleaner assembly off of a 1978 chevy pickup with a 350 in it.

The unit was nasty dirty....but structurally sound.

Washed it up well with degreaser and water.

It needs some buffing with a wire wheel to remove some light rust.

A good coat of Rustoleum gloss black paint will make the little prize look pretty good.


Best part was the price...$27 including the yard entry fee.....


The aftermarket stuff is either crap or high dollar....

The factory parts fit so nice too.

This filter has the correct relief on the back to clear the big HEI  distributor....
I have new exhaust manifolds on the way too, and the hot air tube from the manifold will connect to the air filter hot air inlet...

I think that given the close proximity of the snorkel to the outer edge of the tub that a baffle may be in order to keep fluffy snow from getting sucked into the filter...

All in good time..


----------



## BearGap

That’s some Grade A patina.


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## Snowy Rivers

Yeah...pretty much...

Actually a lot of that is just dirty scale and not very much rust.....There are a few places that have a little pitting, but no worries.

Think today I will get some Rust Mort and go after the entire assembly.

Would have been nice to have found a "Cherry" one...I am living in the past.

Seems like just yesterday I could have scared up a nice specimen......but the 80's were a long time ago....


Patina is good....the entire tub has a fair bit of patina too.....the only thing that saved the beast was the generous amount of hydraulic oil that had leaked all over in the bilge and other places and caked up with dirt....

The tub is 3/16" steel, so the little rust that is on it is really nothing to worry about.....

Ahhhh yess...the joys of resurrecting old iron toys 


You want to see patina ????? wait till we get into the OC 12.....That beast had water in it and it made a mess.

Nothing really bad, just a mess to clean up....bearings need replacing and a bit of dusting off some surface rust.

Pix will come as soon as this rain stops and the diffy can come out.

I will shoot lots of pix of the diffy rebuild.....these are not hard to work on....just a bit awkward is all.

Probably call on my little Red tractor to hang the air chain hoist on so the diffy center section can be eased out of the case.

The diffy still has a fair bit of nasty yuck in the drop boxes and I want that outside.... Once things are clean then we can work on the bench in the shop.

Just a thought.

Once the final fitting on the power pack is finished I want to clean the engine up with the hot washer....and then paint it.

I am thinking CAT YELLOW WOULD BE SWEEEEEEEET.

I used cat yellow on the 6.5 in my 95 GMC DUALLY 4X4   

Cat yellow on the engine and leave the trans natural aluminum.....
Eventually paint the tub and frame flat black outside and maybe a dull silver or light gray inside the tub to allow visibility when working on it.

Until things are wrapped up and any bugs worked out I am going to likely hold off on painting the tub..   There will no doubt be modifications and welding and such...makes zero sense to paint it all pretty and then weld on it again.

Primer up the structures added to the top of the tub where the van will sit and call it good until it runs... then strip it down and paint it....


Fun fun fun..


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Good news..

The new manifolds showed up......butttttttttttttttttttttttttt....the RH one has a 3 bolt flange and one lobe of the flange hits the tub.....not hard, but we are going to need a rat hole in the tub to allow a bit of clearance.

Started to rain so I marked the area with a sharpie and buttoned things back up.

Will need to open a 4" x 5" hole and weld a 1"  thick flange around it and add a sheet metal cover....

This will allow access to the one bolt on the 3 bolt flange and then the manifold will not hit.....

Other than this caveat I like the new manifolds..

This type of crap is what always plagues a roll your own project....

But these manifolds give better clearance on the Spark plugs and they have the soft tapered donut to seal the head pipes....plus they use the 3 bolt flange with the constant torque springs.....


And off we go....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

The weather straightened up this afternoon....so I got busy on the cat.

Ripped into cutting the access hole in the tub to give the manifold a bit of room.

The manifold set were a very popular style for the small block.

1988 to 1995 GMT-400 series trucks ( Pickups, Suburban, Tahoe) with the 5.7 engine...Quite readily available item.

Sadly they area tad wide set and just needed a tad bit of relief to clear the tub..

With the hole cut, tomorrow I will get a piece of 3/4" x 1" flat bar and frame in the hole then bolt a cover over the area.

Just needed a small amount of room for the one stud and the corner of the manifold to have clearance to move a bit.

The UGLY hole that looks like it was axed in was a left over from the previous crew.

The hole was most likely for starter access, and then it was covered over by the lower blade mount.
The hole was partially covered by the blade mount and a piece welded in.

I am going to finish removing the mess and then clean up the hole and add an access cover so the starter can be removed if need be.

Gotta scare up the 3 bolt flanges that bolt to the exhaust manifold outlet studs.

The new manifold sits low and a starter heat shield is a MUST HAVE ITEM


Poor old Packer looks like Swiss cheese with all the extra holes cut and drilled in it......

And off we go....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

IT'S WET OUTSIDE...

But the urge to get things moving ahead were motivation enough to work in the rain to get things done.

Got the measurements taken to get the  "Downpipe" made up this morning.

Local muffler shop "The Muffler Works" is a great shop.

Talked over what needed to get done and in about 15 minutes the fella had me all set.

Gonna use 2-1/4 down pipe out of the manifold and the down in a long bend and up over the rear trans mount.

I scored a pair of Flowmaster Super 10 mufflers for $43 and shipping was included....New in the box....sweeet deal...  (Two mufflers for the $43)

As soon as the mufflers get here I can figure out the intermediate pipe.

Gonna go 2-1/2" pipe from the down pipe to the muffler and then 2-1/2" to the rear and out the side... (Not just sure yet on exact exit spot.....someplace that does not get in the way of other stuff )


Stopped and picked up the steel to frame in the "Rat hole"   and make a cover.

Tomorrow is looking better as far as the weather goes....
Hopefully be able to get more meaningful work done..

With whats happening now I can swap in any Gen 1 small block chevy and everything will bolt right up.

If the little 305 is not to my liking, well them maybe a 350 or a 400 will be:th_lmao:

I suspect that the 305 will be fine, but ya never know.

The small block with the TH350 is a really good combination.....


Sitting here watching the rain come down....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Rain let up a bit.

Wrangled the new exhaust part on the cat.

This was easy....now...once the entire system (Duals) are bolted in and hung...then getting things apart are going to be tough.

Decided to install a "Ball seat" into each  front pipe before the muffler.

This will allow the headpipe to be cut loose from the manifold and leave the muffler and tail pipe intact.....

Getting the headpipe in was easy.....but once each side is all assembled that easy is gonna turn Fugly.

Pretty easy to weld in the ball seat units.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Great weather today.

Got after the spacer and cover plates for the exhaust flange access hole.

Cut the pieces then fabricated the frame.....laid out the bolt holes in the cover and transferred them to the frame.

Tapped the holes 3/8" 16NC

Got the exhaust access cover done and then went after that very ugly mess just  to the North of things.

Got after that ugly hole and managed to remove the old scabby cover that had been welded on to cover what was left open when they installed the blade.

After some seriously tedious cutting, grinding and then bending the old cover off the end was a fairly nice hole..

Perfect size to get the starter out.

Sadly with the big 57" tracks the access will be limited at this time....


Had to stick the new top reinforcing bar in the mill and relieve it to fit the bulge in the tub.

**** The 2100 with the big Ford V8 had the tub splayed out just under the top rail to allow the engine to fit****

The V8 mods to the tub (Factory) has a weld right across above where the starter access hole had been cut by others and the tub splays out at a fair angle..

So the top piece is cut to fit now and will weld in nicely.

I ran to the steel yard late this afternoon and picked up more bar stock to fabricate the rest of the frame to go around the starter access hole.

Tomorrow I can fab up the frame and get it welded on the tub   WEATHER PERMITTING 

After chopping all the sin off the area I was pleased with how things cleaned up.

I decided to reinforce the area well as the vans front end will be sitting over the engine and fasten to the top rail  (With added structure)

Still have a buttload of extra useless holes in the top rail and the lower area of the tube

Gonna clamp a flat piece of brass behind the holes and weld them up....if for no other reason than to clean up the ugly mess...




Piccy's


----------



## vintagebike

As a fellow Thiokol restoration traveler, I can’t believe how much I am enjoying your 2100B journey.  Steve, now back home in McCall


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## Snowy Rivers

Well thank you very much.

"Journey" is certainly what it is.

Rebuilding/refurbishing any piece, be it a car, pickup or ???? has it's ups and downs....but when you delve into a "Roll your own" it certainly take things to a totally different high.

I see one of our other travelers has a small block chevy in his Tucker.....the small chevy is just so universally loved for so many different applications.

Having done other projects in the past I was aware of the turns and twists things take....but the older I get the harder it is to get my old bones around the sharp corners that seem to come up on a regular basis...

Never a dull moment for sure.


I keep telling myself....."If I get ...THIS THIS AND THAT DONE" then things can really roll.....

Well....I HOPE SO.....and the journey continues.

Again...Thank you


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Just a simple update on items that are on their way for the project.

The fresh Quadrajet carb...Be here Monday
Mufflers will be here this coming week
Air cleaner rod and wing nut ...Monday
Exhaust hanger assortment (Weld on rod type/rubber push on )  This week

Oh...the BLACK NOODLE to replace that HIDEOUS blue piece on the steering control unit showed up Friday.

A piece here and a piece there....slowly getting things to keep the kitty on it's journey...


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Was a good day....no blood letting  

Weather cooperated a lot and I got the large access holes framed built and installed.

Lots of pictures too.

Got some of the way that the tub is splayed to allow the V8 yo fit.

Actually the Chevy mouse would fit even without the wider sides....but it would be tight.

The fairly large round holes in a row in the splayed area  was for the hydraulic lines to the blade  (No more)

Pretty much a start to finish on this cover..


I welded the lower edge of the tub sheet metal to the heavy bar to get rid of the ragged edge on the inside.

I had this nasty vision of a blood letting while changing a starter 


So...aside from welding up a bunch of those extra bolt holes things are pretty good now...

Exhaust, and as soon as this weather improves getting the OC12 OUT.....

Hardest part of today's work was hand tapping the bolt holes.

Hot rolled bar is rather gnarly and not nearly as easy to tap (Machine) as other steels.....

Can't get the good tapping fluid we had back in the 70's/80's....unhealthy I guess.

Used to use Tapmatic #2....great stuff...but it had a bunch of nasty chemicals in it....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Slow right now.
Fresh carb showed up last night along with the air cleaner stud.

Mufflers should be here today some time.

The black noodle showed up and I cut a fresh piece and replaced the hideous blue one on the operator station.

I want to get the exhaust pretty well thrashed out before I pull the engine and trans out again.

Weather is being a real pain....rain rain rain and I really want to get after the OC12

Once it's out and the crap drained I can get it into the shop.

I am not gonna deal with the sloppy mess that's inside the box in the shop.

At least the crap is gonna be drained outside where I can dispose of it...

More stuff to consider as well.

I want to get a fresh starter on and an oil pan drain hose installed before the engine goes in for good....ahhh, and a remote filter assembly too...

Still lamenting over which starter to use.

Thinking about a Denso mini.....a lot smaller and lighter.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Got after some new cross members to replace the junk I cut out back several weeks ago.

The one that was mid ship where the rear of the cab set down was in rough shape and the one forward where the front of the cab set was no better off.

Decided to add two new ones that will bolt into the tub and stabilize things side to side and provide a nice set of points to hang the mufflers off of.

Got the parts cut and the rains started being annoying.

The forward one is wedged in and the angles are sitting about where the rear one will  go...

Decided to build a 2 foot long set of 4" exhaust tips to mount under the tub rail...

Should be pretty high on the cool scale.... 

Mufflers should be here this afternoon late.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Mufflers showed up.

These bad boys are gonna fit in the rig sweeeeeeeeet.

I got a sneaking suspicion that the little mouse motor gonna roar like a lion with these 2-1/2" Flowmaster super 10's


Stuff to work with for a bit.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Weather was decent this morning...got after building the new cross members and drilling the holes in the tub for mounting.

Got the front one finished and all welded up....the rear one was tacked up but the wind came up and that shut down the welding real quick.

15/20 knot breeze just raises hob with the gas flow on the wire welder....

But better weather coming....

Things looking good.

Got the exhaust ball/flange units coming...

Once they arrive the exhaust system can progress pretty fast.


----------



## Jim_S RIP

Snowy Rivers said:


> Weather was decent this morning...got after building the new cross members and drilling the holes in the tub for mounting.
> 
> Got the front one finished and all welded up....the rear one was tacked up but the wind came up and that shut down the welding real quick.
> 
> 15/20 knot breeze just raises hob with the gas flow on the wire welder....
> 
> But better weather coming....
> 
> Things looking good.
> 
> Got the exhaust ball/flange units coming...
> 
> Once they arrive the exhaust system can progress pretty fast.



How many seats will you have?  Can all of us get a ride at once or we have to take turns?


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Astro usually has seating for 8.

The Red van I have now is an 8 passenger.

Still looking for a nicer van to drop on the 2100.....

Pretty sure we are gonna need to draw straws :th_lmao:

Really irks me....just as this Kung Flu thing was breaking loose and everything was shutting off I had an opportunity to get a 98 Astro that was lovely....had a bad trans.
Guy did not want to drop a buttload of $$$$ into a van with 200K plus on the clock.

I passed due to the uncertainty of things....wish I had grabbed the little beast.

Ah well...more fish in the stream....

I bought the Red one for the cat, but it needs some TLC 
Windshield is cracked, paint is a tad Fugly.

It is a great grocery getter an general beater...

I really want a cream puff to use on the cat....

IF WISHES WERE HORSES THEN BEGGARS WOULD RIDE EH ????


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Materials on order....not here for the long weekend.

Decided to design the intermediate pipe that goes between the head pipe and the muffler.

The Ball flange units are not here....but I was able to layout the next pipe in the system on the RH side.

Magnetic protractor, tape measure, regular machinists protractor and a bit of luck......Drew up a sketch and hit the exhaust shop before he closed for the day (Noon on Fridays)

Good fortune favored the foolish.....the pipe could not be better if we tried....

The hangers are likely gonna be best if hung behind the cross member to allow the muffler to be moved rearward if the engine needs to come out.

Two ball/flanges on each side will allow the entire system to be  unbuckled and removed with minimal work..

One ball flange will go in the intermediate pipe about a foot ahead of the muffler and the other will go behind the muffler hung off the rear cross member.... (New one)


As soon as the other parts arrive I can cut the pipes and weld in the ball flanges and start stitching the system together......

There will be plenty of room for access to the drive shaft and center support bearing too.

The exit out the rear looks like it's going to be just ahead of the OC12 and then back under  the top flange of the tub and straight out the back.

May add a large tip.??????????....We shall see.

A high angle shot to really see where the exhaust lays.

As soon as the LH manifold gets here the same things can be fit to the LH side


JUST AN FYI

The 2 x 4 across the tub is there to keep the tub at the proper width...(When I cut the cross member out that was under the rear of the cab the tub popped in about 1/4"   sooooooo...I spread things with a hydraulic jack and cut the 2 x 4 to fit)

Once things are where we need them the front NEW cross member will be holding things.

Fun Fun Fun.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

The LH exhaust manifold showed up today....
Got the old manifold off and the threaded holes in the head all cleaned out with a tap...

Got the new manifold in and OH YEAH.....As I figured...gotta have a rat hole to make a tad bit more room.

Sadly this manifold gets into the splayed area of the tub and will require a bit more finesse to frame the hole in and building the cover plate will be interesting to say the least...

But it's doable....
Using a different type of manifold would have placed the the outlet in a worse spot than it is now.

These manifolds are standard issue on 1995 Chevy Tahoe and Suburban...

Also 88-95 1500 and 2500 pickups with a 305 or 350 engine... EASY TO COME BY....

SOME PIX

OH and a different kind of CAT....MY LITTLE BUDDY Chupi....8 year old Sphynx (She has a bit more hair than most Sphynx cats)


One plus....I can reach the oil filter now.....

The drain plug is in a nasty spot....Best guess is that oil changes will be done with a sucker down the dipstick tube.....

I am looking over the ideas of a higher capacity pan with the drain plug a bit more on the side instead of being angled down as it is.

We shall see.

I really would like a baffled and gated pan with an 8 quart capacity rather than the 5 quart stock fill.

Having a bigger pan with gates and baffles should be a plus for doing more radical operating angles...


And on we go...


----------



## KickerM

I rebuilt the pan on my Skidozer and it has a side drain on it and 8quart cap for extreme angles!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Nice looking pan.

With the fairly large extension you must have a pretty fair amount of room under the engine ????


I have the little Chevy within 1/2" of the bottom of the tub....so the only thing I can/could do is go out sideways with any additions.

There is room to extend the sump forward some too......

The front axle is right below the pan so there is no room to go down at all.

There are several specialty "Hot Rod" pan builders that make all manner of pans for the Small block Chevy, so if/when I decide to do something I will likely look to one of these options....

Back many many years ago I was into Drag boats and ran Big Chevy's......I  always used a 13 quart specialty Marine pan that was baffled and gated.

For now... with so much work ahead to get this project up and running I am thinking that a fresh oil change and filter will be good to go.

Later on down the road things can be revisited and changes made to suit the need.

I don't want to get bogged down with a bunch of little special things that are gonna hog the limited budget.

Getting the power train pretty well complete and such is my goal for this summer.

After the power train is ready to go the remaining part of the build will be relatively simple, although full of several little projects.

The air system
The cable trans shifter
Wiring from the van to the cats engine.


There is still the issue of the tracks....I have one (1) of the 57" standard tracks.
Hopefully one more will come along....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Fooling with the manifold on the LH side and the dipstick tube keeps troubling me....I can't seem to find a fresh one.

The one on the engine is tweaked and bent so many ways it is nearly impossible to get the stick in and out.

The bolt bracket is gone (The spot welds on the tube are there. but no bracket.

I removed the new manifold and wrangled the tube out of the pan aperture and got that bad boy out in my hands.

Took it to the vice and gently...GENTLY   straightened that thing up.

The tube is supposed to have an O RING at the base where it slips into the pan aperture.....no Oring...just Gasket goop.

Cleaned things up well and finally got the dipstick straightened out to where the pair actually work well together again....

Then to find an O ring...Napa store had that covered.

How to fasten the stick so it would stay put ???????

Decided to use a compression fitting and make a little bracket to fasten to the one stud top bolt that had been holding the manifold on....

I think this is gonna work well....

Tuesday I can gather up some steel and finish the rat hole on the LH side.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Just a note to quell any curiosity.

I stuck the  brass fitting in the lathe and ran a drill through it to allow the dipstick tube to go clear through....

Made a sweet "Adjustable" bracket

The little aluminum piece has a slot where it fastens to the stud top bolt.

Tweaked the aluminum a bit to allow the brass fitting to  run straight with the tube....Close anyway.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Today was a productive day.....

Got some exhaust pipe bent and things moving ahead.

Also got the heavy bar stock to frame the hole in around the LH exhaust area.

No pics on the frame today...tomorrow....

Got some shots of the head pipe on the LH side.

A tedious chorus of a tweak here and a little nudge there to end up with clearance where needed.

Sadly the standard exhaust tube benders will not do what I needed done....
Sooooooooooooo...we had to build the head pipe in 3 pieces....but it is just about ready to get tacked together.

The results were pretty good all in all, and the flow should be fine.

We also bent the LH variant of the intermediate pipe today as well.

I will get more pix tomorrow.

I learned that the exhaust shop is losing his lease on the building and will be gone by the end of June....I am gonna hustle and get the complete system done, or at least all the parts made to get things finished to the rear of the cat.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Good things happening..

Got the LH head pipe completed and life is good.

Framed in the LH access hole and made the cover plate.

The shape of the tub has made the shape of the cover plate a tad odd.

I need to make some little puzzle pieces to finish closing in and cover the hole.

The splayed nature of the area made the top of the hole cover just plain nasty to build.

Finishing that beast is tomorrows task....

The intermediate pipes fit great as do the mufflers....

Still waiting for the ball/flange units to get here....tomorrow maybe........

Once the ball/flange units get here the system can be finished up.

It will be nice to be able to completely disassemble the entire exhaust system and remove it from the Cat chassis piece by piece if need be...


I was pleased with the end result of the complex bends up near the manifold outlet.

The inside of the pipe looks pretty good all considered....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

More progress today...

Finished up the LH TUB cover plate....

Made cardboard patterns and cut out "Puzzle pieces"

Cut the steel and stitched it together.

This bad boy will keep the crap out and also keep the structural integrity good in the tub.....

The exhaust parts will be here on the brown truck later this afternoon....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

ALWAYS A FLY IN THE OINTMENT SOMEWHERE.

Today was gonna be a kick ass day and wrap up the exhaust back through the mufflers....

The Ball flange kits showed up last night on the Widdle Brown Truck. 

Getting my first cup of coffee going and un-boxing the goodies......

Get the parts out on the table and SOMETHING IS NOT RIGHT.

This kit is supposed to have a ball and a flange set, 6 bolts, 6 nuts and two retainer plates.

Now granted I am still waiting for my first cup of caffeine ...so maybe I am just looking at things wrong ??????

Both flanges are the female end 

OMG
I opened all 4 boxes and all are the same thing.

I pulled the part up on Summit Racing's web site and reread the listing...

I did read it right.

Kit includes a ball and a flange piece.....

Seems that the parts packer was having a bad day.

I called Summit on the phone and after a short wait I get a very helpful fella on the line.

I gave him the order #### and told him what was wrong.

As it stands the parts are packed and sealed at Hedman and the folks at Summit just ship them.

So the customer service dude is having 4 more sent from a different warehouse direct to me ...be here tomorrow morning.

So much for getting stuff done today.

Rain for the weekend.....Arrrrrrrrgh

Here is a couple pix....The first one is what I got...the bottom pic is what I expected

Nobody ever said building a snowcat would be easy..????

Guess I will clean up the new access hole framing and covers and get that stuff painted today while its still warm and dry.

At least it will keep the stuff from rusting.

I was planning on doing painting while the engine was back out of the cat.....

SNAFU....OH YESSSSSSSSSSS


----------



## vintagebike

Be the first to find the Summit Racing sticker - win a nice prize!    McCall Restoration Crew
.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Left side A pillar just ahead of the door opening....


----------



## vintagebike

OK, but much harder next time.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Left front jack stand


----------



## vintagebike

*Resto Quiz*

Only one more for now.   ID the rear end , the make and model, being modified for our 1949 423 and exactly where it was purchased.  This is for some of you not yet back to work.. I will start a new thread soon with new and more difficult challenges.  SR gets a prize.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

10 bolt Chevy 
TNT auto parts


----------



## vintagebike

Almost


----------



## undy

Snowy Rivers said:


> Nobody ever said building a snowcat would be easy..????



No.  In fact, I think most of us suggested exactly the opposite.


----------



## vintagebike

SR must have an Apple Watch to be on top of this?


----------



## Snowtrac Nome

Snowy Rivers said:


> Nice looking pan.
> 
> With the fairly large extension you must have a pretty fair amount of room under the engine ????
> 
> 
> I have the little Chevy within 1/2" of the bottom of the tub....so the only thing I can/could do is go out sideways with any additions.
> 
> There is room to extend the sump forward some too......
> 
> The front axle is right below the pan so there is no room to go down at all.
> 
> There are several specialty "Hot Rod" pan builders that make all manner of pans for the Small block Chevy, so if/when I decide to do something I will likely look to one of these options....
> 
> Back many many years ago I was into Drag boats and ran Big Chevy's......I always used a 13 quart specialty Marine pan that was baffled and gated.
> 
> For now... with so much work ahead to get this project up and running I am thinking that a fresh oil change and filter will be good to go.
> 
> Later on down the road things can be revisited and changes made to suit the need.
> 
> I don't want to get bogged down with a bunch of little special things that are gonna hog the limited budget.
> 
> Getting the power train pretty well complete and such is my goal for this summer.
> 
> After the power train is ready to go the remaining part of the build will be relatively simple, although full of several little projects.
> 
> The air system
> The cable trans shifter
> Wiring from the van to the cats engine.
> 
> 
> There is still the issue of the tracks....I have one (1) of the 57" standard tracks.
> Hopefully one more will come along....


 
why not dry sump it and run a remote oil pan.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Snowtrac Nome said:


> why not dry sump it and run a remote oil pan.



ONLY ONE REASON

MONEY $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

For now the standard Chevy V8 oil pan will do...Be fine for cruising....Steep inclines/declines or side hills might be tough....

A wide gated pan that is standard depth will work sweet (Pan is only 1/2" off the bottom of the bilge) 

I wanted the engine as low as possible to keep the mounted elevation of the van body as low as possible.....


GUYS....I DO NOT OWN AN APPLE WATCH....Sorry :th_lmao:


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Went after the grunge on the sides and washed things down with prepsol.

Gave the front section where I have been welding a nice shot of satin flat black paint.

That will keep the rust away...

Flat black outside and a light gray inside...

Nothing at all fancy....as most of things will not be seen.

The van will cover most of it.

The exhaust parts are on their way...be here tomorrow...I do hope they are right this time....

But Summit speed shop sent me a CALL TICKET to return the other stuff.

That's really good service  AND NO BS...Just polite and prompt service...

Somebody at Hedman blew it when the kits were put together...

Ah well


----------



## Snowy Rivers

undy said:


> No.  In fact, I think most of us suggested exactly the opposite.



All poking fun aside.....

This project is actually not going to be that hard.

Trying to do it on a budget makes it such that you have to get very creative.

Such as buying half a Camaro for $325 and high grading the engine and trans...and then selling whats left of the half a Camaro for $350....

Engine and Trans for FREE.... 

Once I get the remainder of the stuff on the engine and such ready....drive shaft cut to length and mounted and then the OC12 done....All the hard part is done then.

Mounting the van is pretty basic stuff

Very little to do of major consequence from then on.

The steering air control panel is pretty much done.

Run some air tubing and some wiring.

I am not at all intimidated by this thing..

One little piece at a time...then pretty soon it will be ready for prime time.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

The proper exhaust parts showed up a bit ago..

Now if we can get the weather to behave we will be golden


----------



## olympicorange

.......  the more parts you order, the more common it seems to be,..right box ..wrong part.   or missing pieces.  funny they never send two in one box ( or give you double for your buck).    happened to me ystrdy... went to john deere for a w/p for a 450G... parts guy walked out with it in one hand...''here you go''... I just laughed at him...  Wrong.   I've been buying parts from him for 30 yrs....  so making him blush is a high lite some days....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Yes indeed

Back in my trucking days it happened a lot...

The 95 Western Star we had was ordered to my specs  (500hp Cat...heavy 18 speed Fuller, 48000 pound Eaton rears...extra heavy frame.. yada yada yada

I always had to give the parts guy the serial number and then pray that he looked it up right..

I miss that 500 Cat....."LOTTSA POWER"  (Local truck shop outlawed it and bumped it up to a touch over 600 ponies)

That beast handled the 105,500 stuff with ease...

Did get blown off once on a steep grade by a fella outta the great white north running a Big Pete with a 3412 Cat in it.... OMG that thing really hauled the mail...


I was not amused though to get 4 complete boxed sets of those connectors and all be wrong...

Ah well...such is life.....

Hopefully today I can get after welding the couplers into the system.


----------



## vintagebike

*another option*

Maybe mount something on the Thiokol tub  that can haul more castaways?   Might me rough sailing for awhile here in the USA, for a lot of reasons.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

CUTE......

I did my thing with boats....not this time.
My son in law has been stumping for a crew cab with a flat bed on the rear.

I still like the 8 passenger Astro though.....


----------



## olympicorange

....  ,...  that's when TV was worth watching,...   actually been to Oahu & seen G.Island,...  it was sold to the marine corp. for training , after the series,.. then sold to a private owner....     well , the big ponies are nice to haul the mail,...  little thirsty ,..  but make sure you trade it before the first overhaul....   it's nothing to spend 15K on a rebuild,...


----------



## Snowy Rivers

I bought that 95 Star new and it had 625K on the clock when I retired and sold it.

Only thing major was a fresh set of injectors and injector seals at 590K 

The sucker was a great engine.....

The first 18 speed fuller went 500K and was just used up

The power divider broke the input shaft about 6 months before I retired.

That was actually an easy fix....the shop dropped the divider and flushed out the diffy....NO JUNK IN IT

Clean break on the input shaft right in the inter axle differential unit.

They rebuilt the power divider with a fresh shaft, divider unit and bearings and seals.

That is a huge shaft on that big Eaton box.

I had bogged the truck down loaded one time and I really horsed on it getting it to roll out....

Likely had something to do with it.. but who knows.......

The ring and pinion were pristine and zero metal junk on the magnet.

Oil tests at 5900K showed perfect on the Cat......(An injector seal was leaking antifreeze into the fuel tanks and were wanted to check for oil contamination.... Lucky shot....

Can't remember exactly what the numbers were, but the shop called me and said my kitty was healthy....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Yes indeed

We always watched Gilligans Island and all those other shows of the time.

Laughed our azzes off and had a great time..

Where did all those good times go ??????

Now we have reality TV shows .....
We watch Curse of Oak Island, Survivor, NCIS and a few others.....

Ice road truckers....I used to love to pick that show apart.....

Butttttt, cinematic license is certainly useful to keep the folks on the edge of their chairs.

Driving a big rig is/can be boring.....

I had a day job running local stuff mostly..

I stayed as far from asphalt as possible....never hauled that crap...
Did a lot of water treatment filter sand (Drinking water)
Hauled a lot of sand and round rock to the concrete plants..
My last few years was private hauls for my own clients....

Landscape suppliers to the public...
Sandy loam, 3/4-0.....1-1/2-0 and on occasion would haul big round rock 
2" to 8" washed river rock....also hauled the Red cinder for the landscapers.

One really lean winter we hired to a dairy hauling cow chit from the washout pond out to another area where they mixed it with water and pumped it on the pastures.

Stinky...but paid good..

With the big heavy haul I got a lot of fairly distant hauls.

Still Intrastate though...never did long haul interstate stuff...Home every night by 6 or 7 pm....some times I would load up and bring my load home if it was going east towards The Dalles, Pendleton, Baker or other east Oregon spots and leave a 2 or 3 am and beat the traffic through Portland....

Get on the big slab and set the cruise control and crank up the tunes.....

Drive half a day, and be on site less than 10 minutes to unload and head home...


----------



## Jim_S RIP

> Ice road truckers....I used to love to pick that show apart.....



have you seen the summer edition?

https://www.facebook.com/TheBrassKnuckleTrucker/videos/1961766053922231/


----------



## Snowy Rivers

No thanks..

Boating in the big rig is not my idea of fun..  

Back in the winter of 97 IIRC we were working on a water treatment plant (Sewage) and the river came way up....the contractors were building this huge pad out of crushed rock.

The entire area had been ringed with tall orange poles (Like snow poles) and we had to drive onto the pad and stockpile rock.

Looked like the video....water in all directions....

About 18" where we were working, but beyond the poles...ABOUT 8-12 FEET 

Spooky out there for sure....

Best party was we could leave our trailers out in the "Laydown yard" 
On this job they only used the slam bangs.....simply no room for a truck and pup out in the pond....

Finally the water got high enough that nobody would go in....getting water into the diffy's was gonna be an issue.

I thought about adding rubber hoses to the vents, but the rock supplier decided not to send us back in until the water dropped.....

some pics for anyone who does not know how the slam bang works


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Back to the 2100 Packer.....

More exhaust work today....

DO NOT BUY A HAND OPERATED EXHAUST PIPE EXPANDER...JUNK

I tried in vain to expand the intermediate pipe enough to insert the ball and flange units for welding..

Ended up taking the pipes down to my buddy's exhaust shop and he expanded them on his hydraulic exhaust tube machine.....

Got everything all assembled and leveled up well and started tacking the pipe sections together along with the ball socket sets.....

Formed the hanger unit and made a bolt block and got it welded to the cross member.

Tomorrow the LH side will get cut and expanded....then welded together.

Looking long and hard at things late this afternoon.....bringing the pipe under the rear cross member (New channel bolt in unit) and up at a 45 degree angle is the ticket me thinks.

Weld the ball flange on and attach a hanger just behind the cross member.

Next the last piece of pipe can come across the top of the tub frame from the rear and angle down into the ball flange.

Thinking strongly about adding a 2 foot long 4" pipe on the 2-1/2" and finish it with  45 slice at the rear of the cat.

I have some BIG flat washers that will fit the 4" pipe and can be bored out to allow the 2-1/2" pipe to adapt into the 4"

The 4" will give a really deep throaty sound....

The additional tube frame that will be the attaching point for the van will be high enough off the cat tub to allow the exhaust to protrude out the back over the OC12 AND STILL ALLOW ACCESS TO THE DIFFY.


Coming together for sure.

Good news
My exhaust guy has landed a new building fairly close and will be moving in there in the next couple months.

I was glad to see him being able to stay in the area....


One thing for sure...
Welding the exhaust tubing is a real pain with OLD EYES AND TRIFOCALS  (Variable lenses)

Light the mig and then try to focus on the right spot and not burn a hole in the pipe.

The heavy stuff is pretty easy...thin stuff......gotta move fast and try to focus quick....Arrrrrrgh


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Exhaust done through the mufflers.

Got done withe the last weld on the LH pipe and and the spool of wire ran out..

Been a long time on that spool......

Now it's on to getting the rear pipes bent and installed

One pipe from the rear of the muffler to just aft of the rear (New cross member) weld in the ball unit.

The last pipe goes up and out the back.

3 sections each side

Head pipe from manifold to the ball flange ahead of the muffler.

Intermediate pipe goes to muffler and out of muffler with flanges on both ends.

Aft section goes from rear ball flange up and out the rear through the "boom tube"


Easy to unbolt all the pieces to be able to work on stuff...or R&R the power pack as a unit..


This has been a slow slog, but is coming out well....should be a good set up....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Got a slow start today.

Been having troubles with the welder....thought it was just old eyes and not much else.

I would pull the trigger on the wire machine and start a weld and was getting a crappy weld off and on....other than welding outside and battling wind off and on.

Yesterday things got even more hinky.....decided to open the welder wire spool compartment...."Maybe the spool is empty"  ??????


Well now....then things got real crazy.

Open the side door and find a mouse nest.....and the mouse had been peeing on the wire.

Rusty piss coated wire does not feed well or weld good...not even.

Cleaned up the mess...cleaned out the feed drum grooves and also cleaned the liner in the feed cable assembly.....

Wow...what a difference....still does not make up for old eyes and trying to focus after tripping the trigger...

Anyway.

Measured and designed the rear pipes from the mufflers back to the rear most ball flange units.

Muffler shop was a bit busy today so I was not able to get going on the rear pipes until later this afternoon.

But did manage to get the LH side put together.....

Got some pix

Also scared up the 4" pipe for the tail pipe " BOOM TUBES"

One more set of pipes to get bent that connect to the rear ball flange and go over the tub and out the back.

I need to get some good measurements on the Van from front bumper to rear bumper and see exactly where the van will sit on top of the 2100....and how long to make the "Boom tubes"


Once this is done I can figure the length of the last 2-1/2" pipes to get bent.

A 45 degree bend....to get the pipe aimed out of the belly..... then machine some big washers to allow the 2-1/2" to fit inside the 4" pipe.

Just hope this beast sounds halfway decent 

Looks like there is just enough 4" pipe in the chunk that was in the corner...


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Looking at the axle spindles on the front axle of the 2100 last night.

The plastic (nylon) bushing that goes in side the assembly where it slips over the square tube is miising...and the snap ring is gone too.

Where can I find these parts ?????


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Weather is gonna turn crappy late today and into next week....

Got busy and finished the exhaust back past the mufflers and to the rear ball flange.

Just need to work on getting the last bent pieces so the big boom tube tail pipes can be fabricated.

Ahhhhhh...just and FYI

The welder is working fabulous now the wire is clean and free of mouse pee and rust.......

Only Caveat is the working outside and the wind blowing the gas off the weld...

The "Rice Crispy syndrome"........Arrrrrrrgh

May get a bit of time today before the weather turns ugly....if so I will get the last two pipes figured out....


I hate exhaust work......not hard, just not handy when ya have to run to town for every little tweak and bend....Luckily the shop is close....(6 miles)

I am getting some nudging from a couple buddy's to start thinking about scaring up a small block 400 for the kitty after we get the bugs worked out....

Nice part is EVERYTHING that is here now will all bolt right onto the 400....

"Plug and play" or "JUST LIKE LEGOS"  

Brought the van around late yesterday and snuggled it up close to the cat to get some real time ideas on the best length for the tail pipes.

Thinking about extending the big pipes out to withing a foot of the rear bumper of the van and then add a 5" chrome tip to extend just beyond the bumper.

NOT TOTALLY SURE YET......


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Wheel...Wheels...Wheels

Still thrashing trying to come up with wheels for the cat.

The Aluminum wheels are just stupid expensive and I need several to really fix Kitty up well.

I found a company in Kansas called HEY WHEEL   (Hey Wheel .com)

The make stuff for FARM and off road use.

The will sell me a 12" wheel blank and a 5 x 5.5 bolt pattern center with the proper pilot hole for $175 per pair.

I will need to jig the wheel up and locate the center for proper offset and then weld them.

Fella told me to be sure of the lug nut taper...Automotive is normally 60 degree and Agricultural is 90 degree.

This might explain why so many lug holes in my wheels are messed up.

Wrong taper and they will not stay tight.

Several of my lug holes are Fubar'd bad.


So....this seems like a grand idea......

I will post more on this as it happens

Fella says their wheels are designed for "Rough service"    we shall see!!!!


----------



## Snowtrac Nome

personally I like the one piece wheels I like the ones with the oversize bearings even better. what I hate are the stupid foam filled tires what a pain when the carcuss falls apart.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

I would love to have a complete set of the aluminum one piece hub/wheels..

Beyond my paygrade.....

The original Thiokol wheels are probably fine for most operators other than heavy groomers...
Mine are just beat....lug holes wobbled out, some wheels cracked and welded up.
 A few of the wheels have the rims dinged and dented....I wonder how you do that ????

The outfit I contacted make mostly Agricultural equipment wheels....and the odd ball weird stuff for weirdo's with Snow cats and truck toy's   

The urethane fill on the front ones does give you a tad bit of a stop gap when the tire goes away.

One of my front ones has a tear in the sidewall, but the urethane is still keeping things round....

Gotta be a pain to get those wheels apart and the urethane peeled off.?????


----------



## Snowcat Pat

http://www.millertire.com/products/wheels/front-tractor-imp/blank/12x-3-rim-blank/

The 3 inch width is best. 

-Pat


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Thank you for posting the wheel info

I am curious as to what 1/2" on a side difference will make ???

Does it take some of the load/stress off the sidewall ???

A local fella here is running modified wheels in the 4" width with radial tires 
(145/80/R12)


----------



## Snowy Rivers

The weather has made any serious outdoor work pretty much tough sledding.

So have gone inside and working on some designs for mounting the Van up top of the cat.

Yesterday the Right Front Door handle on the Van came apart as I went to open the door.....Arrrrrrrrrrrgh

FOR ANYONE WITH AN ASTRO OR A SAFARI

The outside handles can be replaced easily without tearing the door panel off and ripping the guts out of the door.

There is a plastic plug in the door by the latch.....THIS GAINS ACCESS to the lower nut on the handle.

The top nut is the Booger.

The picture shows the two black Gorilla tape patches.

The upper hole location can be located by looking at the handle and using a sharpie to mark the location.

Drill with a 1-1/4" hole saw 

You need to leave about 1/2" or so of material between the outer edge of the hole and the edge of the door lip.

Be aware the latch mechanism will stick out into the hole....SO DON'T CUT MORE THAN THE DOOR SKIN.....

Debur and life is good.

The nuts have a wide washer built onto them..

Carefully remove the lower washer.

Stuff a piece of paper towel into the upper hole to keep the nut from falling into the door.

Box wrench gets the upper nut loose...

Wiggle the handle out of the hole in the door and pry the little actuator rod loose from the old handle.

Now life gets interesting.

Place the new handle in the open position and put a suitable object between the part you pull and the mounting plate that fastens to the door.

This keeps the little lever that pulls the rod in a position that will allow the new handle to snake back into the door and get around the lock rod.

Once the new handle is in the door and sitting properly replace the lower nut and snug it up......

Now wiggle the latch rod into the lever and replace the keeper.

Some handles have a plastic part with a snap over retainer....others have a metal clip that you press the rod into and it snaps in.

Once the rod is in place check the function of the door...

Now..

Stuff paper towel back into th top hole and pack it such that the top nut can be put on the stud.

I used a medical gripping tool  (Forceps) to grab the washer on the nut and insert it in the hole and onto the stud.

Hold the nut with a finger and slip the tool off carefully..

Gently turn the nut with an open end wrench or as I did used a small screw driver to gently pull on the nut flats to get it started on the stud..

Once the nut is started on the thread things are golden.....


Snug up the nut and the job is done.

I ordered up some rubber plugs to fit the large hole.

Hole ends up at 1-1/2" after it's cut and debur'd.

The lower hole came with a plug but mine was cracked...

Gorilla tape is fine for now.

Removing the door panel is nasty on these old rigs even with the proper tools due to the plastic being brittle and prone to breakage....


And for our folks that wonder what this has to do with snow cattin...

I was heading into the rig to yard off the dog house cover to get good accurate dimensions as to the location of the back edge of the house.

This to allow proper placement of the van FORE/AFT on the cat chassis.
The dog house access needs to be such the the engine distributor can be removed if need be and other items on the top of the engine accessed EASILY  (Subjective)

The door handle broke and so went my time between rain showers...

I did later get the house off and got a few measurements....but Ma nature pretty much wasted the rest of the afternoon...  WET


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## Snowcat Pat

To keep the tire guides and wheel rims from wrecking each other.

-Pat


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## Snowy Rivers

Yesssss...I can see that could be an issue.


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## Snowy Rivers

Here is a closeup picture of the tracks, tires and wheels on a 2100.

I am not sure where the interference between the wheels and tire guides is going to happen ??????

Running a tire flat can and will trash the wheel rims as the edge crashes into the tire guides.

About half of my factory 3 inch wheels have the edges of the wheels dinged up in many places.

I wondered how that could happen....flat tires....

Also a piccy of a 2100 with a flat tire.

Use 5.30 x 12 tires to get as much sidewall as possible....Foam them suckers to help stop flats

The cat with the flat tire belongs to our member "THE FATSQUATCH"

Pat...you have solved the mystery of why my wheels are dinged up

I wondered how the previous clowns beat the wheels all to hell....

Now we know

With tires inflated and or foamed the issue of thrashed wheels and track guides should not be an issue.

Checking the tires should be a standard procedure before taking off on a run and post run walk around me thinks....

Looking closely at the bottom picture the flat tire has dents in the rim  right behind the one guide....


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## Snowcat Pat

By way of explanation. Track twist.
Snow is not always level or soft. Seen tracks tweek to 45 degree angle and tire guides  snip off tire valve. Then the gouged tire guides tear up the tire sidewalls. Or dent the wheel enough to puncture tire and/or tube.
The narrower the track the worse the tweek.
Thiokol aluminum wheels are 3 inch wide and the wide aluminum bead is kinder to tire guides. 
I would like to try modern aluminum rims someday. Even though they are 4 inches wide they still might be nicer to the tire guides.
OK this was fun I guess.

-Pat


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## Snowy Rivers

What you say all make perfect sense to me.

I was looking at one of the wheels off the cat yesterday and took careful note of the dents in the rim.

They do more or less match the tire guides as far as the spacing on the wheel.

About 4 inches apart....Tires will/can move as far as position (Rotation) goes. but the dents match the shape of the tire guide tops.

Now ???????

My 2100 has the 57" tracks.....Yess the narrow track could tweak more as suppose...

I wonder why this issue was never really addressed ???????
I do remember back in the day that the Snowmobile clubs Spryte used to crack the steel wheels at the center where the wheel hub center is welded/riveted on.

How are the two piece bolt together rims as far as longevity ????

The factory alloy wheels up front on my machine do have some "Scuffs" on the side of the rims near where the bead is on the tire...but the bead area is a nice transition into the tire sidewall.

What could stop the issue you brought up would be a slight modification to the tire guide tops.

A more laid out top inner edge to stop the wheels and sidewalls from getting whacked...

But....this is a lot of work.....the factory alloy wheels would sure be a sweet deal.

One idea that pops into my head is a valve stem guard ....

This certainly might keep the valve stem from getting whacked.....

This entire subject has answered a lot of questions about this subject.....

Sadly, for now I am going to have to proceed with the steel wheel options on the 8 wheels....Unless a bunch of the alloy wheels happen along or I hit the lotto  

But the idea of valve stem guards and possibly a weld on addition to the tire guide tops to place the load across more of the tire sidewall rather than poking holes might be a great plan.......


Another thought .....
Much has been written about the type of tire used on the cats ( Trailer tires vs "Snow cat tires")  The heavy 10 ply tires and the Fall line and others would have a tougher sidewall that handles getting poked by the tire guides better....plus foaming the tires helps by keeping them from deflating as a pneumatic only tire would......????????

The one piccy with the fancy wheels on the cat....looks nice....I am not too sure how rugged those wheels are and how well they can stand being thrashed by the guides ?????

Solution

Hard rubber tires (Urethane) on herky wheels without a pronounce flange type bead.

All rounded surfaces that will tend not to beat each other up.....

Do I hear PONTOONS WITH CHAIN TYPE TRACKS 

Tire valve stem guards.....may go a long way to saving tubes and ultimately the tires, wheels, guides.

Easy to make these and weld them to the new wheels while the welding process is happening....

I have torn the valve stems off our skid steer a time or two over the 20 plus years we have had it.

It does not have guards on the stems

But normally it does not have anything flying by like the tire guides on a cat "Gnashing away like shark teeth"


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## Snowy Rivers

We have bearings showing up.

Snagged enough wheel bearing to rebuild all the hubs (Already replaced 2 hubs complete so will have bearings)

Got everything between a few ebay sellers...

Mostly Timken...inner races are URB (Romania)

The rest should be here today and tomorrow if tracking is truthful.....

Cost me less than half of parts house prices......


And the SAGA continues....


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## Snowy Rivers

More bearings showed up...
The outer cones showed up (6 of them)

Still more coming via Fedex later today.....


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## Snowy Rivers

Picked up the rear most 2-1/2" exhaust tubes a bit ago.

I need to cut them to the proper length and get them back to the shop to have the one end expanded to accept the ball flange unit.

Also I got a pair of rear tranny mounts to be used at the very rear of the cats upper tub flange to mount the big 4" exhaust tubes.

I will get pics posted as I can get them.....

Had to work on a couple 400 watt metal halide lights in the horse barn today.

Had a couple bad transformers....and the "fits all" units available do not always bolt into light housing....As was the case.

Had to modify the bolt hole arrangement a bit....and this required milling a flat on the outer shell of the transformer housing to make a place for a nut...


Sadly these bad boys are 16 feet up in the air hanging off the trusses...

All done and things are so bright ya need to wear shades.

Still have one in the stable that needs a new Ballast (Transformer) and capacitor...

Light output is a tad weak even with a new bulb....

The big Metal halide lights are great....just not fun when ya gotta work on them up in the wind


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## Snowy Rivers

Another box of bearings showed up last night.

The inner cones

Getting the new parts CAT SCANNED :th_lmao:

One more package of bearings coming to fill out the needed numbers and give us a few extra sets.

Now...need a bunch of seals cheap.....ebay shopping time...


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## Snowy Rivers

Weather sucks...cat is full of pollen cones after the hail we had the other day.

I got the last two pieces of 2-1/2" pipe bent and ready to cut to length and then get the one end expanded for the ball flange......

Cut the two large tail pipes yesterday and whacked the outer ends at a nice rake.

Decided to use a pair of rear tranny mounts bolted to the rear flange of the tub to anchor the tail pipes....

A 4" U Clamp with the sheet metal part welded to a piece of steel angle that bolts to the rubber mount.

This will give plenty of latitude and adjustment as these last pieces bolt up to the system.

Easy parts to find and or replace should it ever be necessary.

TH350/TH400 rear mount   3 bolt center and two bolt flange.

Mocked the pipes up between heavy rain to get a look at wasssssup.

The rain is supposed to quit in a few days.....then maybe this stuff can be finished up....

I still need to whip up some adapter rings to get the Deuce and a half pipe into the big boys....

With the van up top these honking pipes should just stick beyond the bumper a bit...

I will likely leave the big pipes loose until things gel real good and the pipes can fit up really nice.

Last batch of bearings showed up today at the post office.
Grabbed them while we were in town...


My little buddy was keeping me good company while I was typing this post too...with the occasional chirp and trill...


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## Snowy Rivers

Weather gave me a break today...

Got the Tail pipes mocked up and cut to the final length needed to fit correctly...

Cut some 4" discs out of some 1/4" plate I had laying in the scrap .....

Turned up the rings needed to adapt the Deuce -1/2 to the 4 inch

 4 rings machined
Pipes cut to length
LH rear mount mounted to the tub.

Need to weld the clamp to the mount...

Tomorrow the pipes need to get the One end expanded to allow the ball/flange to slip in and be welded.

Muffler shop can gitterdone in a jiffy....

The tub was chocked full of those nasty Fir pollen cones.

Finally had enough of those...blew out the bilge and spiffed it up.....

Next step is to set all the pieces back in the cat and assemble things and tack weld it all together.

The big pipe and the rear most ring need to stay loose until I can get an absolute location for the tail pipes.

I want the big pipes to stick just past the rear bumper of the van..

Tedious and mundane work....but these projects are full of that sort of stuff....


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## Snowy Rivers

Weather is back to being a pain...

Yesterday I got the last 2 pieces of the 2-1/2" pipe expanded on the one end to accommodate the ball flange assembly  (Pipes in picture with blue hash marks at the end)

Raining this morning.....not sure if I will be able to do much outside today....

Warm weather coming....

I am really curios as to how this little Chevy is gonna sound Woofing out the new pipes......


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## Snowy Rivers

Decent weather again....

Pretty much wrapped up the exhaust.

JUST NEED TO POSITION THE BIG PIPES FORE/AFT to get the location looking good in relation to the rear bumper on the van.

The inner rings are on the 2-1/2" pipe and the one closest to the back of the boom tube is welded.

The one closest to the forward edge of the boomer is loose still.

Once things are located spot on the rings can be welded and the forward rings can be plug welded through the boom tube....

So here we are.

Tomorrow we start ripping the rear diffy out of the chassis....

I started today...but I need a fresh can of Skunk PIZZ....The bolts that hang the diffy in the chassis near the center are rusty and there is a fair bit of thread past the nuts....

Not gonna fight it....

So happy to be at the point where the differential is in the gun sight...

Have been dreading the mess that is inside the gear box....it is yucky.....


But here we are.....and soon that bad boy will be out on the dirt and then apart.....


Can hardly wait until it is going back in......

Mid to late summer depending on how much $$$$$$$$$$$ it takes to get the diffy healthy......

Bearings, seals.....the bands appeared fine when I had the top off earlier.....


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## PJL

Fire that bad boy up!  I wanna hear it run.


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## Snowy Rivers

Meeeeee..toooooooooo

Gonna be a WHILE before we can fire it up though.

Engine has to come back out....Get the oil drained, filter replaced.

Engine mount finish welded
Tranny mount finish welded
Check out and freshen the starter....

I also need to weld the lower access cover under the tranny in the belly (Non factory stuff)

I do have a new carburetor for it.

Need a new fuel line (Available) and I want to bolt on a fresh fuel pump.

Likely this stuff will be on the hit list once the diffy is apart and we are waiting for parts for diffy...

Yeah, I really want to hear that bad boy.

I do have a plan on the back burner to put a comp cams 262H cam in the widdle mouse motor.

That should really make it sound bad azz.

While the gear is out of the chassis I want to douse things with degreaser and hit the tub in and out again with the hot washer.

Before the gear goes back in I want to get some paint in the bilge too.

I need to drop the pan on the trans and toss in a fresh filter and a new gasket down there too...


So much to do......

Better to get it done now and then once the gear goes back in it can stay there.


But yesssssssssssssss....really want to hear it run.


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## Snowy Rivers

OK!!!!!!!!

Finally ...al the bolts are out that hold the OC12 in the cat....

More hash discovered along the way too.... Cross threaded nuts on a couple of the bolt/nuts that hold the center section up into the frame.

I was really looking hard at the Gas Axe....but after much Skunk Pizz and brute force the bolts came out.

A question.

I kept the rubber biscuits, bolts and center tube all in the groups they were in and am keeping them marked as to where they came from.

Where can one get a fresh set of biscuits for this beast.....Rubber or urethane.

Are these a standard size or do I need to wrangle up stuff that will work ??????

After breakfast I am going to go down and grab the skid steer and lift the rear of the cat up to get more room so the diffy can come out the bottom.

Rain coming tomorrow and Sunday (A quicky spritz) but I want this bad boy out so I can cover it to keep the weather off....

I will post pix and such later today after the sucker is out.


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## Snowy Rivers

DIFFY OUT OF DA KITTY

Got after the beast after breakfast.

Grabbed the Skid steer and the floor jack.

The diffy was quite cooperative and dropped right down.

Lifted the cat frame up enough so the the diffy would slide out the back.

Grabbed the Little tractor and lifted the diffy up and set it on a couple Harbor Freight furniture dolly's and into the shop it went....ZOOOOOOP 

Rain back tomorrow and Sunday.

I will stop in town at the Ace hardware and pick up some chain and other goodies to be able to better handle the diffy with the tractor...

As soon as the weather is in my favor the diffy starts coming apart....

I marked all the housings, axle tubes and brackets as RH-LH to keep parts from getting mixed up.

If all the case parts stay with each other there will be zero issues....same with the shims and such.......

A good shot of the Gear ratio stamped in the pinion housing.

I counted the gear teeth when I had the top off earlier this winter.

5.44:1 is it.,

This cat should have had 6.14:1 .....but after all these years....who knows what had happened and when..or why.

All for now.....


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## Snowy Rivers

OK FOLKS

For all those that have been waiting for REAL CAT PARTS.

Well here they are.

Got the right drop box pulled apart and the innards out on the table.

Getting the axle tubes off was a walk in the park.....the threads in the drop box where the axle tubes bolt on have been mauled a bit, but are still serviceable.

I am going to replace the bolts with 2-1/2" long set screws and locktite them into the cover.. ( Basically use the 5/8-11 set screw as a stud)  Having the Hex socket facing out will allow holding the stud if need be...Going to use RED locktite on those bad boys....

Use a nice flat washer and Nylock nut on each to retain the axle tube.

Getting the cover off was an exercise is being CAREFUL SO NOT TO BREAK ANYTHING.

With all the water in the boxes I was quite worried about rust and corrosion.

Not bad at all...

The outer bearing on the input gear of the drop box was beat to rat crap.

The balls were all still there, but the cages were mostly missing and ground up.....

Lots of goopy yuck inside too....

Getting the big gear out took a bit of wiggling....but that sucker must weigh 50 pounds..


All the bearings are out as are both gears.

The parts book calls for 3 bearings the same in the drop box and the one on the inside of the small gear to be different.

All the bearings are a 6014


Not sure what is up.

Possibly the top inner bearing is supposed to be sealed on one side to keep the oil from swapping boxes....

I am still not sure, and the Thiokol parts book does not say what the difference is....just a different part number.


But the stuff that came out....all the same...


The RUST I expected to find was minimal and the gear teeth look great....

No damaged teeth..........

The drop gears are 1.83:1

So this cat has the 9.95:1 reduction.....This will give the beast the best ground speed.....


Looks like about 16 MPH at 3600 RPM

Tomorrow the left side box is coming apart....

Then the pinion comes out and the rest of the guts come out.

Marking all parts so they can go back where it came from

Marked the gears and stub shaft...


Great fun......

Would have been nice to have had things apart much quicker....but better to take extra time and not break stuff.......


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## Snowy Rivers

Got the other drop box apart now..Very uneventful....took only a fraction of the time to get it apart.
No busted bearings...fair amount of rusty goop....Big gears look fine....

No real need for pix at this time.

Tomorrow I will tear into the main box.....

See how well that goes.....


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## Snowy Rivers

Gotta go hang with the grand kids today....BUT I got some work done

Ripped the pinion assembly out of the diffy.....
No easy feat either....Rusty goop and crud had made things a bit of a tussle....

But that bad boy did relent.

Removed the yoke, seal plate, center spacer tube and inner bearing from the shaft...

The gear looks OK
One tooth has a "small dent" in it....no chips or other damage.

Needs to be washed up and the teeth buffed with a wire brush good....
I was able to get the bearing numbers off the bearings...one was nearly unreadable, but washing it up and bright sunlight got it to show itself 

I will get pix tomorrow.

Gotta run off to see the grand kids.

Later....


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## Snowy Rivers

The cat diffy autopsy continues.

Cause of death.
Severe neglect combined with an extreme overdose of H2O..... 

Anyway..

Pinion assembly out and apart...

Bearings are trash (As expected
Pinion gear cleaned up pretty well and should be fine.

One thing that was a real plus and  was I was finally able to try my adapter yoke on the pinion.

The factory yoke is a 1410 series type with U BOLTS.

The adapter allows the use of a Saginaw CV shaft from an Chevy S10 extended cab.

The custom adapter was about 1/4" longer from the washer seat area to the face that contacts the seal adapter ring.   (Machined the adapter to match the length of the original)

Good to go..

Another little boo boo..

The last troops in the box had installed the washer that goes behind the nut in backwards.

Yes you can do that....The washer is a BELLEVILLE TYPE ....And is concave on one side and convex on the other.

The washer is to be installed with the convex surface behind the nut.

This allows the nut to compress the washer and load the assembly....allowing the castle nut to index the cotter pin hole after becoming TIGHT

The washer was in wrong and the clowns left the nut barely snug to get the cotter pin in.....

No apparent damage...just far better to have the nut torqued up good....


Found some urethane body mounts from a square body Suburban on the shelf.

Perfect to use on the diffy mounts back in the frame.

Needed to do a bit of lathe work...../no worries.

Will need a fresh sleeve to go over the 7/16" bolts that mount the Diffy.

Will need some adapter sleeves to get the package all spiffy.

Later on we will look at that story more....


Pics of the pinion "Mess" before washing and cleaning.

The assembly with the new adapter flange on it.

"May tack weld the face plate to the flange yoke to make it a tad more secure"

The flange yoke is A NOS from an Army M211  6X6 TRUCK

I machined the plate to adapt the the Saginaw CV joint.

The plate pilots into the Flange yoke and is held with the Flat head Allen bolts.

As mentioned....might weld the plate to the flange to the plate to make it more stable.....


The real plus for the day was having the adapter flange fit so well.

This will allow the new driveshaft to bolt right in with just a small shortening on the short  first section that couples to the Turbo 350.

AS soon as the diffy is back in the chassis the driveshaft can be finished up and things will really be getting close   ... (At least as far as the drive train goes)

Mounting the van body ????....another saga....


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## Snowy Rivers

Getting more work done even though there have been some distractions...

Getting into the issue of the differential/drop box bearings has been a real education....

Normally one would simply jot down the bearing number and go gitterdone.

The drop box bearings are simple open type 6014 ball bearings....

Ball bearings come with all sorts of side shields and seals and then there are snap rings/grooves in the outer race on some designs....but still these bearings are pretty much a no brainer as far as choosing something that will work.

Bearings of the sizes used in this gear box are not what one would call CHEAP $$$$$$

Trying to locate NOS AT AFFORDABLE PRICES can be a challenge, but side seals can be popped out and snap rings can be removed to allow a lot of choices....

The pinion bearings ESPECIALLY the inner one behind the gear turned into a real brain teaser.

The inner pinion bearing is a U1310   (OR UM1310B)

The bad boy is a medium load rated narrow width cylindrical roller bearing.
Drop that number in a search engine and you had better have a couple gallons of coffee at the ready....and lots of scratch pads available as well.

The number of different combinations in this bearing are NUMEROUS.....

I finally found what appeared to be a good choice (Rollway UM1310B)
I was all smiles at the price for a NOS specimen at $40

After buying it on ebay I got to thinking.....this bearing was a "Full compliment"  (No separators between the rollers)

Hmmmmmmm
The original had a retainer between the rollers... WHY ??????

A lot of reading at the various bearing company sites got me to a chart on LOADS/RPM/OILS

OK

The full compliment bearing will handle a heavy load....but the RPM rating was MAX 3000 RPM

I do not want to be limited to 3000 RPM on the input shaft.

Spent about an hour on the phone with one of the REXNORD engineers...

OH BOY......ENOUGH DATA TO REALLY GET THE BRAIN IN A KNOT.

The original inner bearing used in the OC12 pinion was rated at 5000 RPM

Well....so much for the Full compliment bearing.....no worries.

More searching and more frustration.

Big issue is the cost of stepping up to the price of NEW off the shelf stuff.

This big bearing is not cheap..... an average of $200 depending.

So many bearings offered for sale NOS on ebay are great stuff...name brand and all, and super prices.....BUTTTTTTTTTTT A box with a number is all ya see.

Sorting through the numbers with all the Prefixes and suffixes is where the rubber hits the road..

Finally late last night I found a NOS bearing the has a usable configuration for the application.

This bearing is captured between the pinion gear and the spacer tube that goes between the inner and outer bearings.

Once the pinion nut is tight the assembly is all captured nice and snug and slips into the housing.

The rub comes AS THE CHOICES OF BEARINGS CAN RANGE FROM ...
Inner ring that floats in the rollers, outer ring that must be held in the bore,inner ring the has one sided rib, outer ring with one sided rib..

OMG what a mess.

The original bearing has inner ring with two ribs (holds the rollers) and the outer ring has to snap rings to retain the rollers and keep the package together.....

Finally hit on one that has an inner ring with a side plate that when captured axially on the shaft acts as a complete solid type bearing that can deal with thrust.

The inner bearing is free in the bore and only deals with the radial load.

The front pinion bearing is a ball bearing and is captured in a "cartridge" just aft of the yoke and this deals with any thrust in the assembly.

Now that everyone is totally ready to scream......

Bearings coming and at very affordable prices too....

My fingers are sore from beating on puter keys and eyes tired from reading through bearing tech jargon ....  

But it was an education for sure..

So to recap....bearings are not bearings are not bearings.....a whole lot of choices at times......


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## KickerM

We have a bearing shop 40 miles away and the elderly gentleman that used to run it, had more bearing knowledge in one brain cell than I can google, unfortunately he passed it on to his boys and they can get you the right bearings but there is no substitute for experience, and now it sounds like you have gained lots!!!


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## Snowy Rivers

Having worked in the machinery building bizz and automotive and heavy truck bizz has given me tons of hands on....but with a project like this being done on a skinny budget the rules have changed a lot......


The factory bearing used in this location will set ya back a few hundred $$$$$

I need to spread that much $$$$ out over a much larger area. I want to get all the bearings in this box done for a couple hundred $$$$

Shopping ebay and knowing wasssssup is the only way I can do it.


I will get more pics as the new stuff arrives.


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## Snowy Rivers

The main diffy box came apart today.

OMG I GOT FILTHY.

I was just going to open the lid and measure up for a lifting rig to take the carrier out.

Oh well....lets get the bands out and mark all that stuff.

Got the bands out..... well might as well pop the drop cases off....

Getting the two lower bolts/nuts out were a challenge.

Dug through the extra wrenches and found an odd 15/16" box open and stuck it in the vice and got after it with the torch and made it a bit different shape.

Then I could get hold of the nut on the very bottom bolt that is a flat head Allen and is inside the drop box.....

The lower bolts were nasty cruded up from water and rust....but good fortune did favor the foolish and they all came off easily.

Decided...what the heck....lets yank the carrier out too.

The carrier came out easily...looped a chain around the mid section and allowed the rig gear to drop down and hang lopsided and the carrier came right out.

The carrier bearing side lock nuts/tab washers were loose....The previous crew made a mess of everything in this poor old Packer....and they got their fingers up the katsass too....


Carrier bearing nuts were beat all to rat crap.....seems the crew never read the part about USE THE PROPER SOCKET OR SPANNER WRENCH.

No damage seems to have been done.

Lock tabs were in place.....

I scarred up some new lock nuts and I have a spanner and a socket that fits the N11 NUT.

GAWD....SUCH A DEAL

The crew used a helluva chisel on the old nuts....

Not even worth fooling with.

Some pix


Tomorrow will be a day to rip into the carrier/equalizer..

The numbers could not be seen on the carrier bearings..

Had to mic them OD....ID....Thickness and look the size up..

6311 ball bearings.

Readily available and reasonably priced.

The bands are filthy..
Not sure yet if I am going to redo the lining or not.
I will get them washed up and the crud cleaned off...go from there..


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## Snowy Rivers

Yesterday the real truth (Is this diffy usable) was revealed.....

I finished ripping apart the compensating case.

Marked everything so all the gears and such can go back in the same spot they came from......EVERYTHING.....Well almost...not the bolts.

Marked the case halves, the inner and outer pinions, the axle gears (Deep in the innards)

The bushings are in good shape and will bot be replaced.

The long internal pinions had started to wear the case a bit.....going to debur the ends of the gears so they don't act like a milling cutter...

At present...the plan is to clean up the case where it has been worn and very likely install some HARD washers to get the gear teeth away from the soft case.....

The washers behind the external pinions are rusty and have seen better days.

NEW WASHERS HERE TOO....

The thin thrust washers behind the brake drums and also the ones behind the inner axle gears are trash.

New washers here too.

Bottom line with this old girl....the long soak full of water took a helluva toll, but it will live again.....

The ring gear has about 8 teeth that caught hell from the rust, but about 30 minutes with a wire wheel on the die grinder and the worst of the crap is cleaned off..

This is certainly not what you want to see, but the teeth are still serviceable.

Would I head out across 100 miles of frozen waste land at -40 F with this gear set....HELL NO......It's the -40 F thing that would worry me.. 


Actually the gears had black oxidation on them that was a combination of dirt, old congealed oil, and gawd knows what all else.

There was no deep pitting....so it will work.

WE had a 1970 Peterbilt with a set of SQHD rears that were watered real good and looked worse than this cat.

Same treatment...clean up the crud and run them.

Ran that truck for 2 seasons hauling rock (Dump truck) and the old gears held up fine....no metal on the mag plug.. 

Pictures of the goodies scattered all over the table......

A shot of the Custom wrench to access the lower drop box nuts in the case....

Also a pic of the plug to allow pulling the carrier bearings off the housing..

That section of the service manual that describes the SPECIAL TOOLS  is worth looking at.

One can do this job without the exact tools....but making stuff is gonna be in the plan if things are gonna end well....

Getting the outer pinion gears off the tapered inner pinion shafts was a joy....

Get the puller on them bad boys....clamp the jaws well and wrap a rag around the mess...Hit the puller with the impact gun and rattle the hell outta the sucker....BANG....GEAR OFF     Without the rag things can get wild.....


All the parts are now fairly well cleaned up and piled on the bench......

Several bearings are coming...and some have arrived..

Now to plan the attack on those worn case areas where the diffy rats been chewing.....

Probably sit the case sections in the mill and get the worn spots cleaned up to a standard depth and the add a couple oil grooves and then install hard steel washers..of around .060"

Gonna start snooping to see whats available off the shelf...

A nice hard washer will preserve the case and with any luck give the old girl a shot at another RODEO.....

Hope this finds all of the crew here doing well and staying healthy......

Other than being sore from all the crawling around wrestling this Diffy...still hanging in there.....


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## Snowy Rivers

Just a note here.

If you know what you need in the way of parts....EBAY IS A GREAT SHOPPING SPOT FOR BEARINGS AND OTHER GOODIES.

NEW OLD STOCK STILL IN THE ORIGINAL BOX BEARINGS CAN BE HAD FOR PENNIES ON THE $$$$$

IF YOU KNOW THE NUMBERS...LIFE IS GOLDEN


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## PJL

That's great news that the diff is salvageable.


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## Snowy Rivers

YES IT IS

If I had to buy another box the project would end....

But we are good to go......

Maybe not as pretty as some of the girls...but she will go again.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

JUST AN FYI

Looking at the axle stub gear thrust washer a bit ago.....

I am thinking that a thrust washer from an auto tranny with tangs on it will solve the worn washer issue.

Going to reassemble the center section against the  outer section with the gear installed and see what sort of clearance is in that spot....and then go shopping.

I want to be able to use off the shelf stuff....but a bit of modification is OK too.


----------



## loggah

Snowy, make sure you time those internal gears when you put it together! they dont work when out of time.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

YUP
The key way aims at the outer diameter of the ring gear.
From a center line passing through the center hub...


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Gotta add more chevy parts.

The thrust washers in the OC12 were junk.

The drums rattled back and forth a mile.

Decided to measure up some Turbo 400 rear thrust washers.

Yeah buddy....

Grabbed the case halves, tossed them in the mill and knocked some tang notches in those suckers.

Ripped off two of the tangs (Simply could not get the mill cutter in to do all four)

Bored the ID out a tad and chamfered the back side to fit nice around the radius on the case hub.

Tweaked the tangs slightly.


Bingo.

This job could be done with a die grinder....butttttttttttt..The lathe and mill knocked them out quick.


Going to do a similar refit on the center gear washers.

Skinned the outer end of the drum hub to freshen the finish and get .020" clearance.

Far nicer than the slop that was there......

I will post info on the center refit.....


These washers are tough steel backing with a hard copper overlay....oil dimples too.


This washer takes all the rearward thrust in the TH400 and the 4L80 GM BOXES.....

Gotta be good....Ma general stuff...haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa....:th_lmao:


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Just a side note.....Grabbing those washers in the lathe was a tad spooky...

I did not want to wad that sucker up and toss it across the shop....


The only way I could grab the drum was to catch it on the inside of the inner bushing.

Another spooky one.....but again....Good fortune favored the foolish......


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Today was used to attack the center compensator casting....specifically the thrust washers in the center of the unit where the axle stub gears are located...


I did some snooping and then frequented the local tranny shop.....

Picked up a pair of washers from a FORD....84GT7D428AA thrust washers

"Front drum to direct drum thrust washer"   These are a 4 tang thrust washer that fits the inner gears sweeeeeeet....

I put the stack together and measured the clearance with feeler gauges.

The assembly is worn a bit off from side to side.....so the amount of metal to be cut off the center casting was not the same on both sides.

I WANTED .010" CLEARANCE....BUT WE ARE CLOSE

Milled the one side .022" and the other .037" to get things happy

Set things up to cut 4 little notches for the thrust bearing tangs to fit.


Got this all done....feeling real smug....then it happened.

Stacked everything together and dropped the thin washer between the inner gears and things are off by 1/4" or so.

OMG.....WTF 

Day started way too early....

Not paying close enough attention and dropped the one center gear into the compensator outer case and put it in with the long hub to the center.....

THIS WILL NOT WORK 


After looking at it and thinking OMG ...this is gonna hurt.

Then it dawned on me what I had done.

The total material removed was only ..059"....you can't make this into 1/4"

Swapped the gear position and life is good.


Arrrrrgh....time to put the toys away for the night.....


Looking good....I want to bolt the cases all together with 3 bolts to be sure the inner clearances are where I want them....


The little Ford washers really spiff up that area...
Plenty of bearing area, and these washers are meant to be rubbed on....

No mods needed to be done on these washers....right out of the box...good to go.

They are .062" thick....

Pics of the machining of the hub area as well as the tang notches.....

Almost looks factory...

I wonder why the factory used such crappy washers.


Tomorrow it's gear deburing time..... This old girl may not be the prettiest one at the ball....but it is gonna be just fine......


Bunches of pix

See the one gear on edge.....put it in backwards and you will wonder wassssssssup ....:th_lmao:


----------



## vintagebike

*OC-12 question*

Are the ring and pinion a matched set?   I have a center section from what I think is an OC-12 but no case/pinion and has one drum with a big chunk missing.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

My gears were what came out of the machine and had been in use.
The pix really show the ugly that water can do if left for a while.

I suspect this thing has sat with water in it for several years.

I had to put a wrench on the pinion nut and a 5 foot bar to get it to break loose when it first came home.

Yes..R&P are made as sets and need to be run as such.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Sitting here thinking about all the broken stuff I found when tearing into this thing.

First the RH axle bearing was broken up.

Then heading on in, the upper bearing in the drop box on the outside had the cage broken....all the balls were still in the bearing.

The ring gear had a couple teeth with some small nicks....nothing bad...buttttttttttttt???

The Compensator gears appear typical of a well used unit, but the teeth are fine....no undo wear on the teeth.

The case was marked with witness marks before I got in there.

The comp case halves show the inner pinion gear wear into the case.

The outer compensator pinion gears fit the shaft well and the key had not chewed the washers....

Washers were rusty and generally SHOT 
Took some snooping online...but found some nice heat treated washers...
Be here next week (July 6)

Overall....I am still at a loss as to what caused the damage in this gear box.

No washers missing anywhere....
All the other parts, although there is wear..... no smoking gun....

One scary thing through....one of the dowel pins that pilot the left had side of the compensator case had worked inward and was lodged in the little hollow in the center case..... I wiggled it with my fingers and it fell out..

Had that bad boy fell out we would likely not be having this discussion....


It was obvious that previous folks who had been in there had try to STAKE the dowel pin holes.....but cast iron does not peen well and crumbles more than anything.

On the case side next to the ring gear the dowels are TIGHT...

I'm going to leave them alone...

The side opposite ..Not so much....all slip in and out easily.

I am going to drill the bosses and the pins and locktite a 1/4" Allen screw in those....

Sort of like what ya see in a 10 bolt GM spider gear  shaft retainer bolt.

Very easy to drill and tap the holes to keep the pins in place.

Will also make it easier to get the pins out later if need be.

Sort of a MISSION CRITICAL ITEM....If  a pins gets loose    GAME OVER

BANG.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Ahhhhh yessss

Cleaned up the bands outta the OC12 this morning.

Drilled out the rivets and ripped the old lining off...Yuck.

Got them done and ready to get new lining....

My neighbor stopped by to chat and asked if I had ever used "Grandpa's Tractor shop"

Old fella a couple miles away from us.

We tooled on over and had a chat with the old guy....

He knew exactly what the bands were from.

So we left them with him and he called up a couple hours later and said the bands were ready.


Sweeeeeeeet.

Bearings are starting to show up.

One of the carrier bearings showed up today....

The other one should be here soon.

I am pleased at how fast this diffy is coming along..

May be able to start stuffing the thing back together fairly soon.

I want to go through and smooth up the teeth on the inner pinions as well as the inner axle stub gears.

Crazy that these were left so sharp.

Once the final deburing is done I think this bad boy can go back togrther.


We shall see.....


----------



## Alaska Snow Cat

A little AstroCat porn, a reward for all your efforts. Kenai, Alaska Looked like Sprite undercarriage.


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## Snowy Rivers

YEAH.....THATS IT 


I had been in hopes of finding a Spryte to do the project with, but basically nothing showed itself until the 2100 came along to a want ad I posted on Craig's list.

Several cats did present, but were waaaaaaaaaaaay out of my price range.

All but one were turn key...and the one that was not was just a few bits of scrap and too far away to even consider.

The 2100 is certainly going to be a beast when it's done......

At present I am trying hard to keep focused on a very specific set of goals for this summer.

Basically get the drive train completed.

Engine to diffy all in and ready to go by summers end.

Then cover things for the long wet cold

I just don't want to have a lot of parts scattered all over...like the diffy....That sucker is in piles on the bench, floor and a few other places .....

Hope to have that bad boy ready to bolt back in the cat in a couple weeks.

The bands were probably the biggest worry as far as getting them into the $$$$ pipeline....

But good fortune and a curious neighbor got things moving fast....


Lets see ????????????/

Still need the 2 axle bearings and the 8 bearings for the drop boxes...

Gotta get the gaskets ordered from the folks in Idaho soon.....

There is a little work to get the new mounting hardware made for the diffy to chassis.

The outer axle to frame mounts are a bit tacky looking and they will need some TLC.....BUT EASY STUFF TO DO....


This digging up these big bearings by the bucket full for the diffy is a chore....
Thank gawd for ebay

Great fun....keeps my mind off the crap tossed at us on the news every night.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Stopped off and saw "Grandpa" at the tractor shop and picked up the bands.

Fantastic job....   Best part...almost a neighbor....

The second carrier bearing showed up today....

Coming together.......

Gotta get some mowing done around the ranch here.

Probably get back on the cat tomorrow...

Ya'll have a safe 4th


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## Snowy Rivers

Got some time on the tractor mowing....more fun to work on the cat project....

Time to get after some tedious hand work.

The stuff that just sucks.

DEBURING THE SHARP GEAR TEETH.

A little die grinder is the ticket.

Some long stones designed for sharpening chainsaw chain work sweet.

Use the tip of the stone and when it breaks off...MOVE IN and go again.

One stone...one gear....

Really does a nice job of cleaning off the super sharp edges.

These teeth actually resemble a milling cutter and are hard...very hard.

The case is soft cast steel (Soft by comparison) 


Tomorrow we get after the skinny pinion teeth.....the end closest to the threaded end...

Same treatment as on the big inner gear.....


Nice and smooth.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Went after the skinny pinions and got them all ready.

Son in law is poking at me to stick either a crew cab or extended cab pickup cab and front clip on the project.

We found a 94 chevy 1500 4x4 that is fairly clean inside.

Tranny is lunched....Cheap price too..

Likely be able to  scarf the cab and such and then sell off the rest.

Thinking about this plan....

Will definitely be easier to get the cab up on the cat with this plan.


Just an idea.


----------



## Alaska Snow Cat

Cab forward Jeep would be the cat's meow! Or a Chevy/Isuzu W4500 would also work. Standard truck body wastes way too much space IMO.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

I agree on the space thing.

The Van was the most usable space...Big issue is all the extra wasted equipment that has to be carved off..

Getting an engine out is a royal pain, as these were designed to drop out the bottom.

I am fresh out of hoists......

Another thing (And I think the Son in law had the same idea....Sell the leftovers easily and recover the $$$$$)

Doing a Tilt front end would be easy and make service much easier....

The original 2100 design left a lot wanting as far as service access goes.

Mine was a tilt cab and that helped a lot.....


The idea of the cab forward would be cool.....but the crew compartment is not that roomy.


I would love a full crew cab, but the length is nearly too long.....

The Extra cab is 135" BBC (Bumper to back of cab) and this will put the rear of the cab just forward of the point where my exhaust turns up and heads out the back....

I have the fuel tank from the 2100 sitting in the barn....It is in great shape.

This tank can be mounted easily behind the cab.

Thinking about a small "Postage stamp" sized deck in the back to cover the big pipes, have the tank on the front end and room for a bit of stuff ?????/


The focus is still on getting the cat chassis finished up.

OC12 Back in
Drive shaft finished

But I want to consider all options.

The pickup cab will require FAR LESS steel to mount it to the cat chassis, and will add a lot less weight.....Plus it can be handled with the skid steer readily.

As with many projects the designs get changed as things move along.....


The cab forward would be cool though......


All things considered.....the cost of materials has to be looked at.

The current idea of getting the Ext cab PU should leave me with my cab and parts paid for and extra $$$$$ in my pocket.

As with the engine and Trans....It ended up being FREE....this is a very good price....


More bearings coming....

I currently have the following either here or coming

(2) 6311 carrier brgs (Here
(1) 1310 large pinion brg (Here)
(1) 6309 small pinion brg (In transit)

(8) 6014 drop box brgs (8 required 1 in transit)  (Ordered one to look at the quality....over seas made.....I want "Touchy feely" befor I spring for all 8

(2) 5210 axle bearings (Will order these once the diffy is back in the cat..still need to finish machine the retainer rings)

Bands done and on the bench.

Compensator case all cleaned up, thrust washer issues dealt with, gears debured and parts final washed.....

Main case and drop boxes need to be finish washed.....Today likely.


Urethane diffy mounts need to be completed to be as close to original as possible (A guess as the stuff that came out had been thrashed)


All in all....I am pleased with the progress.....

Thanks so much for the support and the input troops.


----------



## Snowtrac Nome

can I make a cool suggestion, why not try a tilt cab like an Isuzu npr down in civilization where you live you can get a salvaged cab for a few hundred bucks.


----------



## PJL

Topwelder started on one of those tilt cabs.  In the photos of the last Colorado event there is some sort of tilt cab converted rig.


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## Alaska Snow Cat

Snowtrac Nome said:


> can I make a cool suggestion, why not try a tilt cab like an Isuzu npr down in civilization where you live you can get a salvaged cab for a few hundred bucks.



Ha ha, great minds think alike! Scroll up a couple posts!

I had a Thiokol 3700 and purchased a Ford CF7000 to do exactly that. Never transpired sold everything and bought a Pisten Bully. Same basic idea.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Well...I live about 25 miles south of Portland Oregon  (Civilization)

I did some snooping on Craigs and did find a few Isuzu cab forward rigs..

No cab only deals..

A couple complete trucks for a couple grand.....


Yesterday I went looking for a wrench/socket for the N11 nuts that hold the carrier bearings on.

About all I got was the deer in the headlight looks... and whaaaaaaaaaaaaat ?????

Nobody had a clue.....

Found a kit with a bunch of the sockets $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


So....Made one today.

Piece of 3" Schedule 80 pipe and a chunk of bar stock....

Drilled and tapped some 1/4" holes...added 3 Allen heads to keep the tool straight....Welded on a heavy bar.....

Should do fine...Far better than a chisel and a hammer....


Thanks for the Isuzu Idea....

I will keep my ears open .

Maybe a GMC CAB FORWARD...


----------



## Snowtrac Nome

the Isuzu and gmc are the same trucks there are also mitsubisi fuzo trucks and Nissan ud. trucks  I have a buddy in ca has one that he is parting out and there is a wrecking yard in Arizona that specializes in the Isuzu platforms so I cant imagine they can be that hard to come by


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## Snowtrac Nome

as I own a fc truck for a daily driver the down side of fc is ride quality especial on tracks  the plus side is its a better use of space.


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## Snowy Rivers

With the Isuzu cab up front a shorty pickup box would fit on the rear...Add a canopy to the box and it could be a cool set up.

Where I am in Oregon (Newberg) there are a lot of wreckers close by....but the little cab forwards are not all that prevalent.....

One on Craig's list for $1200 
Cab, frame, bits of the engine, rear axle....

Pretty filthy looking.

I did post an ad on Craig's to see what shakes out.

Maybe somebody has a dead one holding down the grass and wants it gone....


----------



## PJL

Check with Nikson,  he's in Oregon and as I recall it was a tilt cab Isuzu he pulled the engine out of for his Tucker.  Might have been wrecked though.  I can't recall.


(Edit) Okay I found it on his Youtube,  it is wrecked.  But he got another transmission from somewhere.  Worth a shot.


----------



## vintagebike

*win the lottery...go big*



2018 Mercedes G wagon Euro body only.  Just what you need -On eBay now for $34,995


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## Snowy Rivers

A    "G WAGON"  OMG

Yes ...definitely spendy...

Gonna have to pass on that one...waaaaaaaaay beyond my pay grade...:th_lmao:

Would be cute though.

All fun's and games aside....I am getting into the Cab forward idea though.

Just gonna keep plowing along on the drive train and see what shakes out

Using an Isuzu cab would give things the look of a Pisten bully.

Paint it red and it would really look the part....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

PJL said:


> Check with Nikson,  he's in Oregon and as I recall it was a tilt cab Isuzu he pulled the engine out of for his Tucker.  Might have been wrecked though.  I can't recall.
> 
> 
> (Edit) Okay I found it on his Youtube,  it is wrecked.  But he got another transmission from somewhere.  Worth a shot.



I sent Bud a PM 

We'll see what shakes

Thanks for the idea......

There has got to be a dead Suzzy out there that needs a home....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

More parts slowly drizzling in.

The outer pinion washers for the OC12 showed up and the steering band shaft seals.

With the washers here I can start getting the compensator case back together.

All the rest of the parts are cleaned up and ready to go.....


----------



## loggah

The original steering shaft seals were very thick with another steel piece in them to act as a rod guide,at the last of our running sprytes with the oc12 differential we double stacked the seals. The hole in the differential is deep enough to do it.


----------



## Jim_S RIP

I have no idea the cost of a body but GMC and Chevy had some neat looking snub nosed COE trucks in the 30’s and 40’s  Would be a unique look.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Loggah...
Mine was a mess  (Entire thing was trashed by the previous crew)

The seals were mashed to hell....likely by an idiot with a hammer.

I can spin up some aluminum guides to fit behind the seal and help keep the seals alive??????

Jim

Those COE rigs will fetch big $$$$$

I am gonna keep my eye open for a Suzy cab forward.

Since they are made as a tilt cab already...will be easy to adapt it to the front of the 2100....

The old GMC COE are cool, but the restoration dudes will be all over anything decent.

OK

Today the diffy compensator went back together.....(HEAVY!@#$%)
I do not have an easy way to lift that beast up on the bench....so put down a piece of heavy particle board on the concrete floor.

Worked down there where it's safe...

That sucker went together quite well.

Greased up the new thrust washers I added to the setup....got them all in.

Timed the skinny pinions and got them in.

Just kept adding parts until the bench was bare (Except the old thrust washers and used cotter pins)

Cut some exhaust tube to be temporary fillers in place of the carrier bearings..

Wanted to keep the drums from falling off.

All nuts tight...just need to get a box of cotter pins and get 12 of those bad boys in place.

The unit turns very free all the way....

This is not my first Rodeo on one of these....just never did this big of one.

Last one I was in came from an Oliver HG  (About the same as the C4 used in early Spryte)

Before that I did an OC6 crawler and an OC3.

But this was when I was in my early 20's.


Same game pretty much.....


I am going to be very happy when this bad boy is hanging back in the 2100.

Tomorrow the case gets washed out.

Still gotta order the gaskets from Snow cat Pat....

I can get the gear set back in and the drop boxes on....

Still need more of the 6014 bearings to finish the beast.........


WHAT A MESS THIS WAS.

Happy that it's usable is about the best thing....

A couple pix....

Gonna roll that sucker into a big plastic bag to keep it clean for now


----------



## loggah

We used to put the brake bands on the differential before we set it in the box,that way we didn't have to fight with rolling them in place, your doing good getting it done !!!


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Thank you.....

YESSSSSSSSSSSS

That's what I got planned

Put the bands on the drums....cinch up with a zip tie to keep them from being a PITA while stuffing the diffy carrier into the box.

As the thing is all the way down....this is he way to do it..

The new band material is a tad stiff...

Same stuff, just thicker due to being new..

The old stuff was nearly to the rivets....


GREAT FUN


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Cleaning up the drop box covers and the axle tubes this morning

The threads in the drop box cover are in bad shape on about half the holes
Some threads there, but not good enough

Going to countersink the holes from the inside and thread in flat head Allen bolts and locktite them

This will make a very sturdy repair of the area
The other option is to Helicoil them

The tool kit is one I do not have on the shelf 

Gotta head to town and get the bolts in a bit 

Will post pix later


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Had to go to two different bolt companies  (Less than 1/2 mile apart) to get the 12 ...5/8"-11 Flat head Allen bolts 2-1/2" long  (Full threaded)

Stuck the one cover in the mill and dug up a big azz countersink.

Dropped that bad boy into the inside of the 6 holes that fasten the axle tube on.

Got the holes all ready for the big bolts to thread in.

Gonna wash up the axle tube now (Very grungy with a huge amount of blue silicone on it and nasty goop left from the water oil mix left behind..

Then will come the acid test.....SEE  IF IT ALL WORKS.....

Gonna fit the bolts with Nylock nuts and the original washers..

With the flat heads sealed with blue locktite they will not leak oil....



Pictures in a bit....


----------



## Jim_S RIP

Snowy Rivers said:


> Nylock nuts





One of the great inventions of mankind!


----------



## Snowy Rivers

YES INDEED.

Never had one of those rattle loose.....

Well...
To start with...the previous crew was consistent....and this is not a compliment either.

The fools crammed a standard washer under the bolts that held the axle tubes on...
Sadly there is a spot face in the axle tube that will not allow the washer to seat....

RATTLE THE BOLTS DOWN UNTIL THE WASHER FITS....OMG


The threads were tore up in several holes.

One had a fine threaded bolt run in and it was a bitch to get out....

Cleaned up the hole with a tap as best I could.

The threads ended up a tad out of square....but things fit OK.

PIX

Counter sinking the holes.

Holes done.

Locktite added.

Washed the threads with brakekleen to degrease well first..

All done.

Ready to go back together...


The drop boxes did not come off the same cat either.

One had a soft green paint under the black.

The other one does not have the green paint..

A cat of many colors.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Not a real Gung ho day today.

Got the other axle tube cleaned up.

Both drop boxes are all spiffy now too.

Ordered the gaskets from Snowcat Pat....

His lovely wife got things all handled....

THANKS FOLKS....

Spent more time on ebay snooping out more 6014 bearings for the drop boxes.

Two coming out of Macedonia.....great price too..
One coming from California
One from New York

Enough so far for one box..... 

But the prices are averaging about $20 each.....

When ya gotta have bunches...ya got to shop around.

I am not excited about the Chinese bearings...but several of the big name U S companies are getting their stuff made over seas.

I have found so far

MGM Radak  
SKF
PEER
BL
A Chinese made one called "Premium" with just the number on it.
NSK
Link belt

Should have more at the post office tomorrow.

Even the local wholesale bearing houses are pretty spendy on the bearings.

The two pinion bearings cost   $80 for the pair...The big roller bearing just behind the pinion is more expensive than the other bearings....and tougher to find
The two main carrier bearings $50 for the two

The 8 bearings for the drop boxes are all over the map.
$19...$15...$27 each (Two out of Europe were $54 for pair)

Still watching a couple sellers.

I want to see what the stuff I bought looks like.

If good..will buy more...

Ratty old boxes is fine as long as the goodies are in good shape...

I will be real happy to have the big gear box back together and in the cat...


(1) 6309...Pinion at drive yoke
(1) 1310...Pinion at bevel gear
(2) 6311...Carrier
(8) 6014...Drop boxes
(2) 5210...Axle shaft outer end by sprockets

A metric buttload of bearings...

A note to anyone snooping about to find bearings.

Avoid bearings marked "C3"   these are a looser fit bearing (Internal clearance)

The 1310 roller bearing behind the pinion gear is an odd duck.

This bearing needs to be a caged roller bearing and NOT  "Full compliment"
The Full compliment is rated at 3000 RPM MAXIMUM  (Drive shaft RPM)
The 1310 is available in many prefixes and suffixes.

The one I got is an MS1310EX...This bearing has a inner race with  a flange on one side and a side plate on the other side.

This bearing will work in this application as the side plate will be captured by the center tube on the pinion shaft and this keeps the bearing solidly located.

This bearing is good for 5600 RPM....

The 6014 can be had as 
"OPEN" no seals or shields
"ZZ" suffix ...both sides shielded with metal shield
"2RS" both sides sealed with rubber type seals
The shields and or seals can be easily pried out/off and tossed to give an open bearing.

The 6309 is about the same deal

The 6311 is also the same game

The prices on ebay are very good...

Just avoid the C3 designation and you can remove the unwanted seals or shields and toss them.

The Japanese and European bearings are top notch as are the US made stuff.

The Chinese bearings are in many cases made to ISO9001 standards

I have not had much experience with bearings from that side of the pond.

I did put a front wheel bearing cartridge in our 2007 Avalanche 4x4
It was a CCCPP brand.

Been in the rig 2 years now and no issues.

Fit and finish looked great....

Guess I am just a tad cautious on the bearings for the cat.

I think the larger bearings in the sizes needed for the OC12 are just fine from the folks in China.

I will not start a debate on the merits of any particular brands.....

The only bearing that is finicky is the 1310 pinion bearing due to the many configurations that it comes in.....

You can get great deals online...just be sure and pay attention to this bad boy...


Hope all the bearing stuff help someone...

I beat my head on the wall for many hours sorting out all the prefixes and suffixes stuff...

Most of it is not a big deal...but some can be....

A pix of the one pinion bearing to stay away from.

These are called "FULL COMPLIMENT" type and will carry a bigger load...but the RPM rating is less due to MORE INTERNAL FRICTION

Just an FYI
I ordered the full compliment bearing by the number only...then got to looking at the bearing when it got here...then asked What is the difference and why.

Reading bearing specs books will make you crazy.....and make ya want to chew the tracks off your cat...

All for now....

Tomorrow gotta wash out the main diffy case and go get a 9/16" hex tool to get the drop box oil plugs out.

The small 1/8" pipe drain plugs were stuck tighter than a bulls azz in fly time.

The hex striped out..

Drilled them and used an easy out.

Re tapped the threads to clean them up..

Will install new hex head plugs there...

The carnage never ends with this cat....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

OK

The diffy case finally got the washout and clean up.
The case lid was really grungy too.

All spiffy.

While looking for something in the shop I spotted two screw jacks that likely came from the old square body Suburbans.

These will work great to hold the Compensator case in the center of the bores of the main case while the drop boxes are tapped into place.

I picked up some steel angle that can be used to build a pair of holding fixtures.

The rusty pipe in the one piccy will be cut to length and welded to the angle.

The angle bolts to the top rail of the case and this will allow the case to stand free with access to allow the drop boxes to be fit easily.


A pair of tubes (Not shown yet) will slip inside the compensator case and then rest on the jacks.

SPECIAL TOOLS YA KNOW

I picked up another 15/16" box wrench to modify and make an opposite hand wrench to the one I already made..

This is needed to get onto the very bottom bolts in the drop box.....

(Flat head 5/8" bolt)

These two wrenches are a real help....

Pics of the case.
All threaded holes tapped to clean the threads.

Happily all the holes are in good shape...

I WOULD NOT HAVE BET ANY $$$$ ON THIS ONE...CONSIDERING WHAT HAS BEEN THE NORM...

As the jigs and fixtures come together I will post pictures.

I like things easy....especially when the stuff is heavy.....

Keeping the compensator centered will make getting the drop boxes on real easy.....
 with a soft dead blow hammer.....

No steel hammer on this maneuver ....

At present...the plan is to install Allen set screws in the 5/16" threaded holes in the top of the case, then fasten the top using Nylock nuts.

This will save the threads in the case and make a better overall fastening of the cover.....

I may use blue locktite on the pseudo studs....not sure yet.

Best part is the Allen set screws have a hex in them and can be removed easily...


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Got my Saturday work done....

The Adapters to hold the compensator all cut to length and machined so they will slip into the center tube on the comp.

Two jacks got a tubular piece welded on to make sure things don't fall off.

Fabricated the set up stand.

All drilled to be able to bolt to the top rail of the main case.


Answered an ad on a 1992 Chevy S10 standard cab yesterday.
Gonna go look at it tomorrow and probably put some $$$$ on it.

Got to get together with my Son in law and hook up the BIG TEX goose neck and go haul the S10 home later this month.

Dirt cheap too.

Guy says BAD STARTER IS ALL.....

I could care less as long as the tin is straight.

The S10 cab is short enough to fit on the 2100 chassis and still be able to use the original cat fuel tank and straps....


May also be able to scare up a shorty S10 bed and mount in the rear over the boom boom exhaust pipes.

We shall see.

1992 S10 does not have the OBD2 electronics or electronic tranny.

This will make the chassis even more adaptable (Easily) to the cat project.


There is also the possibility of using an alternative location for the fuel tank and adapting a shorty bed and canopy with a pass through from the cab...

Maybe a crawl through...will be able to see more when the tin is sitting here in front of me.....

S10 drive shaft....??????  might as well keep it as much Chevy as possible....

The S10 front clip should be a great candidate for a TILT setup.

Fasten the hood on SEMI permanent and add a hinge arrangement....


We shall see


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Today ...the plan is to go check out a 1992 S10 Standard cab.

I have been lamenting about how to get 2 more seats  in this Frankencat....

The S10 cab is nice enough....but 2 people only.

I have looked at these "Sleeper cabs" that could be fit readily behind the  regular truck cab  $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ 

Not in the cards.

Heading down to the barn this morning to grab feed for the horses and am on the tractor driving right by the Original 2100 cab sitting in the side yard.




Hmmmm..Ran back to the shop and grabbed a tape measure.

Measured up the cab inside.

2 buckets seats can easily fit in that cab....

Now.....after measuring the S10 cab it looks like the cab will fit fine with the rear of the cab far enough forward to allow the original 2100 fuel tank to fasten in it's original location.....AND the factory 2100 cab (LESS ALL THE CRAP BOLTED TO IT) can fit behind the fuel tank over the BOOM BOOM exhaust pipes......

More measurements of real time variety still need to be done though.

The 2100 cab  is 52" long front to back....that will put the cab about 6 inches forward of the current location of the pipes (Not finish welded yet)

This idea is looking very promising 

The 2100 cab has a nice joy ride bar across the front....

I can remove the old instrument panel up top....

I can easily remove a few hundred pounds of crap still bolted to the cab...

The valves for the blade and the groomer, the seat and steering controls, tool box and sundry other junk.....

Mounting the original cab above the exhaust pipes should give the rear occupants a fair view out the original front windshield.

Gonna need to replace the windows....no biggy.

I can use the original windshield for a pattern

The side sliders are junk.....MAYBE scare up some universal  windows from canopy usage to be grafted into the holes in the door and RH side.

May need to add a bit of sheet metal to modify the shape of the door and side opening...

Best part....I own the cab and fuel tank......

This is indeed going to be A FRANKENCAT....


Ahhhhh
I found the original builders plate.

No date...but it is a 2100B

Serial #601
Anyone able to tell me anything about this machine ?????

Thanks


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Did some Sketching.

Not good scale...but the concept is whats important.

There is enough room to do this.....

The idea of a 2 foot deck behind the cab is cool.

Maybe a wooden deck with stake racks on each side...
I place to toss equipment or ?????

Best part is this uses up stuff that is paid for.....and will result in more usable room for passengers....and equipment.

Big fuel tank too.....


----------



## Jim_S RIP

You’ll want an intercom between the cabs.


----------



## loggah

We would call that rear cab a "mother in law cab" !!!!I think a 1965 ford falcon station wagon body would be just the ticket !!!


----------



## Snowy Rivers

I LOVED IT GUYS.....

Well...I dropped the hammer on a 1992 S10 standard cab a bit ago.

It is not a really sweety specimen.....but has good potential for a cab for this Franken cat.....


The tin is in fair shape.....but the dimensions I found online were not accurate.

It is 100" from Bumper to back of cab.

THIS WILL WORK.

The cab will end about 2 inches ahead of where the fuel tank originally mounted.

Still plenty of room out back for the 2100 cab to fit above the pipes..

No room for the mid deck idea though....

I like real time measurements...not crap from a book or the internet....

My tape does not lie....

Good bet I can sell off the bed, frame, engine and such and get my cab for zip...

$300 for this wretched little truck....It will get a new lease on life.

Right now it's parked in a lot and the homeless camp has been tossing there trash in it..

GAWD WHAT A STENCH.

Cab is not hurt as it was locked.....

Definitely gonna toss the carpet and replace later....

Bench seat is well loved.

Maybe find a set of buckets for the rear cab and matching color for the bench up front.

Rig has a stick shift....and a 2.8 V6


Fairly decent wheels too.

All good stuff for craigs list/


YESSSSS...AN INTERCOM is on my hit list.....Gotta know wassup back there....

Sooo...the tin issues is solved....

I am thinking that since the 2100 cab was a tilt style...be easy to add an air assist cylinder and make it easy to get at the diffy and such for service....


Too much thinking.....

Thanks for the support troops.

OHHHH     JUST AN FYI

Gonna wet sand the cab and do it up in RATTLE CAN Snow camo...White, gray, black (Flat texture)


----------



## PJL

"Wretched little truck".

That's funny.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

That's about all I can call it.

The homeless filled the bed with GAWD awful trash that stunk to high heaven...

BEEEEEEES everywhere.....

But it will do fine......

I think that mounting the stock 2100 cab in the rear will look way cool....

Good visibility for the rear end crew....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Finished up the "Holding fixture" to allow easy assembly of the OC12 Compensator case fit into the main box and the drop boxes fit onto the carrier bearings....

A couple pics of removing a shield from a bearing.

Many time you may need an open bearing and all you can find are shielded or sealed (ZZ  ...Shielded both sides)  (RS  ... Rubber seal)

These parts can easily be popped out using a screw driver or a pocket knife.

Carefully slip the blade into the joint between the seal/shield at the inner race and pry the seal/shield out..

The Gaskets arrived from Spryte improvement today....

Top notch gaskets....Extremely well packaged

Thanks to the folks at Spryte improvement....


----------



## vintagebike

*And what could you do with this?*

I found this in a heavy equipment yard today.  I has an interesting history but is borderline NSFW.


----------



## PJL

So you aren't going to tell us?  I'm not at work now BTW.


----------



## vintagebike

Just to be safe, look up Vegas dancer truck.  This is the actual truck body.


----------



## Jim_S RIP

vintagebike said:


> Just to be safe, look up Vegas dancer truck.  This is the actual truck body.



I don’t have to look, my imagination is doing a fine job :th_lmao:


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Sweeeeet....make a great rear cab for a Snowcat....

Snow dancers ????


----------



## DAVENET

https://www.reviewjournal.com/news/pole-dancer-truck-to-disappear-from-strip/


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Hmmmmm....Las Vegas going too far ??????I can't imagine :th_lmao:

Been there twice a few years back to do Shot Show.....My comment on Vegas

"A very conspicuous display of the wild side"

We did Shot two years in a row and that was enough of Vegas for me....

Drove in the first year and did the show....then the following year we shipped our materials to our hotel and flew down.

The short direct flight from PDX to Mccarran beat the hell out of a hard two day drive in the Suburban from the ranch here near Newberg Oregon down I5 and then over Tahachapi Pass and up to Vegas...

Don't like road trips like that with a strict timeline.....

Trip home on the plane sucked as the crowd on the plane were all drunk and returning from a gambling junket.

The dude sitting next to me wanted a "Girl Friend" for the trip home and was being obnoxious as hell......We had words.....The flight attendant was far more polite than I was....

She asked him to behave.....I threatened to toss his Azz off while in flight.....

"The friendly skies thing ya know"

He finally passed out and started to snore....GAWD

There were empty seats Aft...so I helped my self....
The flight attendant casually remarked "Trouble with the boy friend" ...we had a good laugh.....

I do not ever want to fly an MD80 again sitting next to the engines..

Noisy beast.....


Anyway...so much for Vegas....not my cup of tea....

More like  "Gone catin" would be much better...


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Getting ready to start reassembly of the OC12

Given the fact that the previous crew Fubar'd everything they touched....I am nervous about trusting ANYTHING

The new gaskets that go between the main case and the drop boxes are .016" thick out of the package....

The old ones were .010" when they came out at disassembly.....

The backlash on the gear set seemed fine, and the wear pattern on the ring gear was OK  (Nothing weird)

I do not have measuring tools LARGE ENOUGH to measure the Outside to outside dim. on the assembly to be sure it is located correctly in the case once the drop boxes are bolted up.

I  DO NOT want the assembly too loose (Slopping back and forth) or too tight side to side.....

A large surface plate and a height gauge would be sweet.....FRESH OUTTA THAT STUFF.

If I had a larger height gauge I could do it on the mill table....

My height gauge is too small and the diffy center section is too heavy to lift by hand to the table.


So....PLAN "B"

Going to use the old bearings (Not perfect but not roached either) and OD and ID grind them so they will JUST slip onto the diffy center section, and into the drop box bore without having to get vicious with things...

"Special tools if you will"

Then I can slip things together and check the fit....make any shim adjustments if need be (All original stuff is in it's original sets)

Do I want to trust the other crew...NOT EVEN..../

Royal PITA....But it will work well to get the job done without having to pull bearings and cases apart with force....

Gotta figure out how I am going to grind the old bearings to do this...

Gonna call a couple shops and see wassssssup...Or I may make a little fixture and do it in my lathe.....

I have a rig that allows my air die grinder to fasten to the tool post......we shall see.

I want this assembly correct.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Busy morning...

Called a couple shops that do grinding.....Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much $$$$ to get the two old bearings ID & OD ground to make them usable as set up tools.


Sooooo

Headed down to the shop...

****WARNING****   
DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME.......

Grabbed up my air die grinder and sorted through the lathe tools to find the extra quick change tool holder that I had used to hold the die grinder before...

Yessssssssssss

Got the grinder all set up...had to run to town and pick up a couple stones...

The setup is not nearly heavy enough to get a really really smooth finish....BUT good enough to get the bearing OD & ID where they will slip over the carrier and into the drop box upper bearing bore


So after a couple hours of fooling about....these two bad boys are done....


They fit sweet.

Now the carrier can be fitted and the backlash can be checked and the overall bearing position can be set correctly......

With a bit of luck the original shims will be good to go.....But I am not counting on anything with this beast....


A few pix


The red gizmo's are urethane body mounts from something ????? found on the shelf....

Stuck between the bearing race and the chuck allowed good traction to be able to get the inner race to be turned while grabbing the outer race.

Grabbing the inner race I added a piece of rubber sheet  between the outer race and step in the chuck jaw to drive the outer race...


WHAT A LASHUP.....

I hope nobody here is a precision machinist.....but ya gotta do what ya gotta do to gitterdone.


Gonna be great to get things stuffed into the box and actually see where we are at on this thing.....


I am definitely gonna put these "Tools" in a box on the shelf  JUST IN CASE THERE IS EVER ANOTHER NEED DOWN THE ROAD....


The two bent wrenches, filler button to pull the carrier bearings off, the holding frame and the two modified besarings.

Don't want to make this stuff again.....



Inventions were a blessing for sure.......

All good to go now


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Started off this morning by getting the cotter pins installed in the compensator .

A total of 6 pins on each end...
The 3 outer pinion nuts and the through case bolt castle nuts..   12 total...

Did some final checking, and my theory about the one drop box having been replaced is likely true.

Aside from the Strange paint scheme, there is not a dimension stamped into the top edge of the drop box near the flange where is bolts to the main case.

The one has .9060 stamped quite conspicuously on the top...between the main box flange and the edge where the cover bolts on.....

This sure would make me believe that the drop box has been replaced....

Could have been a factory new one at one time....????????????????

The factory stamps all the critical dims. on the case and drop boxes when they are assembled to aid in the process of replacing bearings, gear sets and such and being able to calculate the shims needed....


So.

The modified OLD  carrier bearings are all ready to go for the test assembly now.
Gaskets all here.

Still need a few bearings....but there is enough to get the center section in....

Was finally able to worry the Oil plugs on the drop boxes out.

The drain plugs were both Fubar'd  (1/8" pipe)  hex stripped out....Drilled them suckers and use an easyout...)
The larger plugs on drop boxes were also in bad shape...fought them out too... with a bit of FORCE.

Need to replace all the plugs.....


Getting close to time to get that bad boy back together.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Got the old "Modified" carrier bearings back on the compensator case and rolled it outside.

Got the main case on the rollaround gizmo and outside.

Lifted the assembly with the tractor and snaked it into the main case.

Got the modified screw jacks in place and a large cotter pin in my 18 volt drill to operate the jacks...... (Last minute idea)

Got the drop cases in position on the pipe adapter holding tubes.

Jacks working to get the center section up into position to allow bearings to go into the drop box bores.

Stupid Mickey mouse idea worked really well.

Started the drop boxes onto the bearings using my Dead blow hammer and almost immediately I swat the top dowel pin with the club...../and the pin goes in flush with the case lip...../Arrrrrrrrgh !@#$%^

The pins are harder than a whores heart....no drilling them to tap a thread to pull it out....

This sucks......


Soooooooooooooooooo...finish getting the assembly together to check the end to end to be sure the carrier is not gonna slop back and forth.....

That went well..

I still need to measure things and bang on the compensator to be sure it is indeed tight in the case......

Now....What the hell to do about getting the pin out.

Decided to try Hydraulics......

Measured in 1-3/8" from the edge of case flange (By pin head that's flush now) and drilled a suitable hole to try and intersect the pin bore.....

Bingo......intersected the pin hole.

Tapped the drilled hole 1/4"- 28 thrd and screwed in a 1/4 28 zirk fitting..

Grabbed the grease gun and gave it 3 pumps and then the little critter popped back out.

Cleaned up the grease....GONNA LEAVE THE GREASE AND THE ZIRK IN THERE......


I need to go measure things and get the pinion ready to go back in and then check the back lash.....

Once these things are done the carrier needs to come back out, the old modified bearings come off and the new bearings go on....

Put the bands on and secure them with zip ties and drop the unit back in.

This time the assembly is for keeps (I HOPE)

Another day or so the way I work.........After my stroke the energy just ain't there like it used to be to push very long.......


Some pix


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Put the new pinion bearings on the pinion and snugged up the nut.

Stuffed the assembly in the box and snugged up a couple bolts.

The carrier appears to be just fine from side to side......measured the position with a depth mic and no matter if I bang the carrier one way or the other using a big azz club against my aluminum spud that fits into the carrier end journal the measurement stays the same at .910" off the inside machined pad in the drop box..... (Measured from machined pad to adjusting nut face as a reference point....same spot after banging the carrier either way)

No matter.....the sucker seems fine.

Checked the backlash ..... .007" on the low and .015" on the high

The Mickey mouse ground bearings could be a skosh off and cause the carrier to sit goofy, but I don't think that's the case as they ran true in the lathe.


The factory specs book says that these numbers are acceptable ....so be it.

I am going to tear this bad boy apart and install the new carrier bearings and kick this pig.......

Thinking about adding a bit of silicone to the lower washers inside the case where the drop boxes bolt on....the lower ones are a real !@#$% to get the washers onto the bolts down there.... Stick ALL the washers to the case over night and GOOD TO GO  

I can use Gorilla tape on the wrench to keep the nuts in place while sticking the wrench inside.

This time the bands will be on the drums  .. 

With the new bearings installed and all the bolts torqued up good the backlash might change a bit....?????????

We shall see.....

I will say this....IF this had been a GM 10 bolt, a DANA 44 or even a DANA 60 I would gave chucked this ring and pinion and scarfed up a fresh set.......


But the cost and availability of new OC12 Diffy gears...especially 5.44:1 are off in the ozones.....


All in all...she will live again....probably not be the quietest girl at the dance though....



Pics


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Last night we stopped by the post office and four more of the 6014 bearings were in a parcel locker for me 

Two still inbound......

The bearings are from all over the world.

USA, Japan, China, Hungary .....Franken parts 

Today started off with getting the bolts out of the box holding the drop boxes on for the temporary setup and checks.

Removed the pinion assembly and the unit is now ready to roll outside and the carrier removed.

Going to do a temp with the lower 4 bolts and washers....Going to add a dab of silicone to the washers and fasten them snug to the inside of the case and let them cure overnight.

Those lower bolts are a paint to fetch the washers in place and not be fishing them out from under the unit after ya drop them ...... Arrrrrrgh


Going to get the new bearings on the carrier today and the big N11 nuts tightened up and locked in place....

Then we wait until tomorrow to allow the silicone to GLUE the washers to the case.

Probably go ahead and get the bands wrapped around the drums and secured with tie wraps today as well.

Gonna be glad when this BIG PIG IS HANGING BACK IN THE CHASSIS....

Still need axle seals, bearings (5210) and I need to finish machining the bearing retainer rings.. (Press/shrink on)


This stuff can actually happen after the diffy is back in the cat.

Them axles are heavy......and just adds unwanted weight while handling the diffy.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Got the diffy back apart now.

Modified bearings pulled off and things are ready for the new bearings to go on.

Wiped the bolt bosses in the case down with a good de-greasing solvent as well as the washers.

Added some silicone to the side of the washer that goes against the case and snugged things up with some bolts and nuts.

By tomorrow these bad boys will be STUCK to the case well.

Then it's just a matter of installing the new bearings onto the carrier and dropping the assembly into the case....the misery of fooling with the  loose washers down in the case will hopefully not be an issue.

The top 3 bolts are pretty easy to deal with.....as a hand can reach in there.

The bottom nuts can be inserted into the box wrench and Gorilla tape applied to the outside to hold things until the bolt is threaded in a bit.....


So for this afternoon....Chill time....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Hmmmm

I did not put the pix in...

PIX


----------



## Snowy Rivers

OK TROOPS

Time for truth on this bad boy........

Got out before the sun was beating down on the slab......

Some pics of things.

For anyone who has not done one of these gear boxes before...some things to keep in mind when you work on them.

Mark everything as to where it came from....Positions of shims and such is paramount.

If it is just a re-bearing, band and seal job everything can go right back in without any hastle....just mark it....

Words like....
Gently
With care
Patience
Cleanliness....are all ones to keep in mind.

Rarely will a big azz club be needed.....RARELY.

Installing roller/ball bearings is NOT a job for a big club....

HEAT IS YOUR FRIEND

Warm up bearings until they are hot enough that you do not want to touch them....A propane torch in moderate weather is all that's needed  (Likely a minute is plenty)  NO BLUE COLOR ON THE BEARINGS....WAAAAAAAY TOO HOT.

Just hot enough that your grubby's will not touch them.

Good leather hand shoes and carefully slip the bearing onto the journal...PLOP

NOW  you will notice the 5 pound club and a piece of pipe.

The pipe fits over the journal and hits ONLY the inner race..

In the event things stick.....QUICK....BLAM...GITTERDOWN WHILE ITS HOT..

The size difference between the bearing journal and the ID of the bearing is between .0003" and .0009" (3/10 to 9/10 of a thousandth)   Not much...But handling the job wrong can reduce bearing life A LOT......

OK
Bearings on and N11 nuts tightened up well, lock tabs bent over.....

Band ends strapped together with big zip tie......

Chain installed.....
Li'll Red called up to do the lifting.

Carrier in the case.

Centering pipes and the drop boxes in place.

Custom jacks in place and adjusted up close.

The little 2 pound dead blow hammer at the ready.  (Harbor freight item)

Tap tap tap  "Gently" to get the drop boxes onto the bearings.

As the boxes get well onto the carrier bearings .....insert the box machined hub into the main case and more tap tap....Get one top bolt in to hold the drop box that is partially in the case.....do the other side.

Each jack can be adjusted as needed with a large screw driver to put things spot on......NO NEED FOR BIG BLOCKS OF WOOD AND BAD AZZ HAMMERS...

That stuff breaks chit is all....and then costs $$$$$$$


Boxes installed all the way.....
Careful inspection reveals that the washers are still nice and snug where they need to be


Just and FYI
After the silicone has cured (Overnight) DO NOT TAP THE BOLTS OUT.

Remove the nuts and unscrew the temporary bolts..

Screw in the original bolts GENTLY and then add GORILLA TAPE to the box wrench to hold the nut in place until the bolt is threaded into the nut.

LIFE IS GOOD.

Bottom two bolts first.....then the next two

The three bolts and washers on top can be accessed easily and WITH CARE to get the washers and nuts in place.

Snug things up....then tighten down the entire group of 7 on each side.

So...After the case was assembled...it was getting hotter than BILLY HELL out on the slab and this old critter was soaked with sweat....

Put the stuff inside and came in to relax until Old Sol moves over behind the trees this afternoon.

All in all...took me about 2 hours to get the bearings in place, N11 NUTS TIGHT and the locks set......then the carrier set into the main case with the drop boxes in place and held firm...In there somewhere we had breakfast.....

Man that assembly turns free.....Took a 5 foot bar on the pinion when I got the cat.....


Life is good....

Later I will nurse the bolts back into the drop boxes where they hold things to the main case......


----------



## loggah

We used to heat up the bearings on a hotplate in a shallow pan of light oil. They slipped right on with the little bit of lube. Back when we bought ring and pinions,believe it or not the dealer,Oliver stores grabbed a pinion out of one bin and a ring gear out of another !!!!! Then we  asked about matched sets, nope no big deal this the way they came !!!!! You are obviously doing a better job then most, good work. We also ended up using conoco 600 oil that was the recomended oil back in the 70's. Don


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Thanks for the compliment......

Hard to believe they sold the gears as "unmatched" sets....

But for the type of operation.....SLOW SPEED  I guess they would not need to be as close tolerance as a highway rig....

Back in the days when I was working building big mill equipment we used an induction bearing heater....

Fast and clean....slip the bearing on the bar and place the bar on the machine...turn it on....

I just flipped to the parts book on the OC12 ...the ring and pinion DO HAVE separate part numbers.

Normally they would be a single number for the set....

Damn.... I WILL BE HONEST....Never seen R&P sold separately before....

But the gears should be able to be machined close enough without matching them....  May be a tad more noisy than a matched set......

Buttttttttttttttttttt....them heavy spur gears in the drop boxes are sure not gonna be quiet...not even..  


I am trying to give this old girl every chance it can get to work again.

Water just raises hell with machined parts if allowed to soak for a period of time.....


----------



## Jim_S RIP

If I ever have an OC-12 needing repair I know where to send it!


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Thanks Jim

With all appreciation I defer to Snow Cat Pat....

He is the resident GURU on these bad boys.....

I have had experience with the Smaller Diffy's in the Oliver HG, OC3 and OC4 crawlers....this big bruiser is a tussle for sure.

Having it in the shop in a cradle with an overhead crane to deal with things would make life far easier.

The way I did it was not at all bad, just more cumbersome at times....

Li'll Red tractor gets to help do a lot of things around here..


----------



## Snowy Rivers

UPDATE....UPDATE

Went down a bit ago and wrapped up getting those lower bolts/nuts all in and tight.

Just need to bolt on the mounting brackets with the top 3 bolts on each side....


All went well with the Gorilla tape and modified wrenches....

That entire scenario makes me wonder WHY the engineers did not make the fasteners a tad easier to deal with on the 4 lower bolts in the drop boxes.

Just a bit too hinky for my liking..... a half ring with the 4 lower nuts and the washers tacked to it.
Held in the case with a couple 3/8 bolts....

Just thread the drop box bolts into the assembly and good to go....

No chance of dropping washers or nuts and having to fool around with tape and hinky bent wrenches....


Ahhhh well...it's done now.....


NEXT TIME....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Slow day...

Bolted the mounting brackets back on and finished up the last 6 bolts through the top of the drop boxes.....

Cleaned up the band anchors and bolted them back on... also cleaned up the band actuator rods, springs and such
Washed up all the drop box cover bolts/washers/lockwashers.

Sorted out the junk ones and replaced them with new.

Need all new cover bolts too.... old ones were trash.....Looked like they used whatever was handy...Some had stacks of washers on them as the bolts were too longs...OMG

Installed the pinion shaft back into the case and rechecked the back lash...ALL GOOD.

I need a pinion seal and a pinion gasket to finish things up there.

Went to town....AC in the Avalanche was a tad weak....90 F outside

Dragged out the pail of R134 and the charging harness...added a bit and brought the pressures back into spec....yeah buddy...NICE AND COLD...

Tomorrow we are busy..no cat work.

Next will be getting the band anchor links and the actuator rods back into the box..

Gonna stuff every nook and cranny with rags and make nice little nests under where I gotta work..

I DO NOT WANT TO DROP ANY OF THE PINS OR WASHERS/COTTER PINS DOWN IN THE OUTFIT.

NO WAY 

There is going to need to be some mods made (Read this as a bracket) to the lid to support the Air chambers.....

Got some ideas....but the lid needs to be back on and the diffy in the cat to really scope things out and Make sure wassssup there.....


All for today....


----------



## vintagebike

*Better get busy*

Winter is coming


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Yeah buddy.

Don't think I will make it this winter.

My hope is to have the chassis pretty well done.

Diffy complete and in.....drive shaft complete (Its close now..just need to shorten the front section and build the carrier bearing cross member)

Front axle straightened 

Yank the power train and clean up the engine/trans and finish weld the mounts and then bomb can paint the tub inside....

We are getting 90 F weather...I am not a fan of that stuff.

I don't last long in the heat......I try and get a couple hours work in during the morning early...

That snowy kitty looked great.


Just a lot of work.....


----------



## MNoutdoors RIP

Snowy Rivers said:


> Thanks for the compliment......
> 
> Hard to believe they sold the gears as "unmatched" sets....
> 
> But for the type of operation.....SLOW SPEED  I guess they would not need to be as close tolerance as a highway rig....
> 
> Back in the days when I was working building big mill equipment we used an induction bearing heater....
> 
> Fast and clean....slip the bearing on the bar and place the bar on the machine...turn it on....
> 
> I just flipped to the parts book on the OC12 ...the ring and pinion DO HAVE separate part numbers.
> 
> Normally they would be a single number for the set....
> 
> Damn.... I WILL BE HONEST....Never seen R&P sold separately before....
> 
> But the gears should be able to be machined close enough without matching them....  May be a tad more noisy than a matched set......
> 
> Buttttttttttttttttttt....them heavy spur gears in the drop boxes are sure not gonna be quiet...not even..
> 
> 
> I am trying to give this old girl every chance it can get to work again.
> 
> Water just raises hell with machined parts if allowed to soak for a period of time.....



Back when we made ring and pinions all ring and pinions start out unmatched 
And then get put on a lapping machine and run in a slurry for a period of time 
Then where numbered as a set.

We also used a electric skillet with vegetable oil to heat bearings works wonders 
The vegetable oil does not stink the shop up like Dino oil


----------



## Jim_S RIP

> We also used a electric skillet with vegetable oil to heat bearings works wonders
> The vegetable oil does not stink the shop up like Dino oil


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Yesssss...
The dino oil will stink things up for sure.

As I mentioned....we used the electric bearing heaters in the big shop I worked at..
The induction unit would heat a bearing QUICK

Any more I just grab the propane torch....not as hot as the Oxy/acet ones...tougher to get things too hot too quick.

As far as the R&P sets goes.....having worked in the auto industry we never saw anything that was not a matched set.

I do remember the first Ford 9" I ever worked on and learned that those teeth are timed....They had a set of paint marks on the ring and a single on the pinion.

Guess the mfg wanted the teeth to always touch the same place every time.

All considered....the teeth in my old OC12 are certainly not great on one side (Side that was in the water) but I have seen worse.... If a fresh set were available readily and at an affordable price I would consider replacing the old ones.

I was told that the 5.44 ratios were scarce items.....

Ah well.....she will run fine....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Well now....some interesting news.

I talked with Nancy at Spryte Improvement this morning about a  pinion gasket.

I asked her about being able to tell when my kitty was made...she had the data 

1972 

48 years ago.....and been run hard and put away wet....waaaaaaaaaaay too many times me thinks...


----------



## loggah

What did you find out about a pinion gasket??? I remember on oc12 differentials i worked on there was a number of thin brass shim gaskets to get the correct pinion depth and wear pattern on the ring gear. I dont recall a regular gasket at all. But these were all on 1200 sprytes and not on 2100 tractors. Don


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## Snowy Rivers

The OC12 in the 1200 Sprytes without drop boxes and with the 6.14 gear ratio has a slightly different setup..

The shims go between the outer bearing cartridge and the nose of the main housing.

The gasket goes on the outward facing surface of the bearing cartridge and is sandwiched in by the seal retainer plate
 Items 80 and 81
The piccy shows to two different layouts.

6.14 gears on the left and the 5.44 on the right.

Nancy at Spryte improvement has a gasket on it's way to me...

I could have done it with the goop in a tube, but I feel better using the gasket in this position.....


I have no aversion to making changes like I did when I machined the inner compensator case to accept far better thrust washers and also did similar between the drums and the case.....

The end result was a much tighter stack up and a very broad thrust surface that is a copper clad steel with anchors that lock into the case to prevent the washers from spinning....

The washers also have little oil holding spots that will aid in lubrication.

Far better than the sloppy thin steel shim washers...

These thrust washers are standard off the shelf tranny washers.

The ones behind the drums are the rear thrust washer from a GM TH400
The center ones are from a Ford A4LD tranny  (Front drum to direct drum thrust washer)

Cheap and easy to get.

These parts fit around the radius on the parts in the diffy like they were designed for it...

Sorting through the washers at the local tranny shop was  plus..

Guy had drawers full of washers all listed by model and application.

Made my life real easy....PICK WHAT FIT and then be able to identify it 

Anyone interested...please make note of these washers and what was done here.

A simple modification that will make a difference....

NOTE

The cracks in the copper on the tangs is normal on these washers and they come that way....I knocked two of the tangs off the TH400 washers....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

No cat work done today.....but other important things happened.

Tomorrow we have a 70 mile drive to pick up the little S10   "The wretched little truck" v

Spent this morning getting all of the tackle needed ready and in the Suburban to load the rig on the trailer and bring it home...

I loaned out my pair of come alongs and one came home a mess...all bent and mangled....Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh


Stopped off at Autozone and picked up another one....

The Little truck is supposed to run, but the story is that the starter is DOA.

I want the cab and front clip for the Frankencat......

The old 95 Burb had not been used since we dragged the Camaro parts home to get the engine/trans for the 2100....needed a good bath and a check over.

Aired up the tires, checked the oil in the old 454....yanked the dipstick on the tranny too.

Evicted a damned squirrel from under the hood.....been pooping all over in there. 


Fueled the rig and hooked up the car hauler....

Tossed in some tools, the spare tire for the trailer and a jack and lug wrench..

Chains, straps, and a ferw other things we may need.

If good Fortune favors the foolish the load up should go easy.....Wretched little truck does not weigh much and should roll up the ramps pretty easy.

The pickup will fill the trailer pretty well.....

We were gonna use the BIG TEX....But the parking lot where the truck is located is not very roomy, and fighting that 30 foot long goose neck was gonna be a real pain....decided to use the small outfit instead.....much lower deck height as well....


I think the S10 will be easy to yank up the ramps with the come along .......


Once we get the front end in thew rails it should go fast........

Weather is gonna get HOT come the weekend and I don't want to be fighting this in the heat.....

AC pump is trashed in the Burb.....gonna have to swap in a fresh one....just a leaky seal....it will cool, just leaks out in a day....


Easy fix.


I will get pix of the ROAD TRIP.....
Hopefully the next road trip will be to drag home another 57" track for the cat....

Be safe troops.....


----------



## Snowtrac Nome

why not add a deck winch to the trailer I have an 8000 pound winch on mine and I drag all kinds of dead shit up on to my trailer. its the smartest thing I ever did.


----------



## KickerM

My 12,000# Harbor Freight Special plus snatch block is key for rescuing untracked kitties!!! (It’s in the blue bonnet on the neck of the trailer!)


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Sweeeeeeeeeeeet

My son in law and I been talking about a winch for the big goose neck (Big Tex)

Well....
The trip went off without a hitch.

Fella was there to meet us on time..
I pulled in, tossed the ramps on the back of the trailer, dragged out some rigging and he backed his pickup alongside my Burb and we ponied the "Wretched little truck" up onto thew trailer.

Only one little caveat....the truck has this huge "BUG BOMB" MUFFLER that hangs down under the RH side and it snagged on the trailer rail pan...

Had to toss a block of wood ahead of thew tire and stuffed a piece of 1/4" poly sheet in and that got the truck loaded.

Tied it down with the come alongs and down the road we went.

Left here at 8 AM and were back by 1 PM

150 MILES ROUND TRIP.

Looking at the tires and wheels on the S10.....Nice Cragar alloys with good rubber..

May get what I paid for the truck for the set of tires/wheels.

Funny thing.

Guy hands me a huge bundle of keys...NONE OF THEM FIT THE RIG :th_lmao:


But the doors are all open and the ignition lock ring has been removed.

I think the lack of keys may be why he never ran it.


No worries...

I am going to do a lot of mods to accomodate the steering valves....I want to keep the Ignition switch where it is and the wiper turn signal stuff there too.


Quite a bit of work to do in the cab.....
I want to get the bed off.....sell it.
Cab and front clip off.....for the cat.

Sell the tires and wheels and the frame, engine, 5 speed and rear axle.


The carpet is heading to the burn pile....as is the front seat.....

Headliner is a wretch but there.  These years always sagged after some time....

I't that saddle tone color.....at least it was not some nasty color.

The color will go well with most anything...

Maybe do the cab in an orange and black camo :th_lmao:

Door panels are good and the windows roll up and down.....

Bucket seats, fresh headliner and carpet....woooo hooo....gonna be a spiffy cab for the Franken Cat....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Spent time yesterday fighting the locking lug nuts off the "Wretched little truck"

4 different kinds, and no key tools to unlock them.

The McGard was the worst to get off.

Did not want to booger up the wheels....They are salable items.....

Finally got all them suckers off and two standard acorn nuts on each wheel.

All ready to get a new home  

Got back at the diffy this morning before we hit the Sizzling temps in a bit....

Packed the diffy full of rags and carefully installed the band links, pins, washers and cotter pins.

Decided to do as LOGGAH  mentioned and double up on the band rod seals.

Ordered a couple more....have them tomorrow.....

Sweat bullets working with the little parts even with the diffy stuffed with rags.

After getting what could wrapped up I was studying the odd wear pattern in the lower bearing bore of the drop boxes.

See two pix


It seems the ends of the axles have been "Thrusting" on this surface.....

I measured the axle length, the outer bearing bore in the axle housing (Depth) AND....The axle bearing can move in and out a LOT

This would explain why the outer axle seal in the retainer is worn to rat chit.

I don't know exactly what has transpired over the decades this machine has been in service.....but allowing the axles to thrust against the drop box has to stop.

There is plenty of room in the axle tube to insert a machined ring that will allow the bearing outer race to come against it and let the bearing deal with any thrust.......

My book shows a snap ring on the inner side of the axle bearing instead of the pressed on steel rings... (OLD TYPE ME THINKS....AXLES WITH THE RING WERE PRONE TO BEAKING)

Also there is not an inner seal in the axle like the book shows.....several changes have been made.......for sure..


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Some recent revelations that have come to light (A good light) since the S10 came into the picture.

Now that the "Wretched little truck" is on home soil....I can actually make plans and do some engineering to things that I think are going to make this a lot nicer to operate and keep the cab interior very "Stock" looking.

The underhood area is a lot more roomy than the Astro van.....this just really changed the game plan as far as the steering goes.

Decided to scrap the steering wheel mounted air valves and all that stuff....

"Change order # ????????" :th_lmao:

The S10 cab will allow mounting (2) air treadle valves opposed to one another on a bracket and adding a "Wand" connected to the steering shaft to actuate the valves RIGHT AND LEFT

The brake pedal can easily be connected to a third treadle valve to provide "service brakes"    A pair of double check valves in the air lines between the service brake setup and the Right and Left turn valves that connect to the R6 relay valves will allow both bands to be applied at the same time for stopping.....

The steering wheel "Should" have about 1/8 turn from center to actuate the application valves.

Simple, will keep all the air lines OUT OF THE CAB too.


The factory steering column in the  WLT  (Wretched little truck) has been violated bad.

Somebody lost the keys and did not know how to access the lock cylinder and just butchered things......but that's life.....

Easy to find a good one cheap.

Last night we tooled over town and picked up a matching pair of decent front fenders cheap for the WLT

Doors are fine, windows roll great, locks all work, all the glass is good.

Sliding rear window is good.....  Sadly it will be looking out on the factory 2100 fuel tank....

This thing has AC too....make our own snow :th_lmao:

Sizing up what it will take to do the tilt front end.

The fact that the engine is way down low will make things pretty simple.

Likely be fastening the hood to the fenders with some brackets ????? to stiffen up the entire assembly.

Not sure yet on what will transpire as far as a stop for the tilt assembly..

Cable maybe.

I had a Peterbilt 379 with cables on the hood....might be just the ticket.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Got after the front end on the WLT yesterday.....

The bumper bolts came off waaaaaaay too easy for a 1993.....YUP....BEEN REPLACED.
Front right side had been smacked and worked on.

Fender, grille, front frame horn welded on.

Sadly the core support got hit too and wrinkled a bit.

That is fixable....just gonna take a bit of massaging.

As things sit at present the front mounts under the core support will likely be the focal point for the HINGE 

Looking at the front of the cat last night...... a nice box tube cross member mounted above where the radiator will sit in the nose should work sweet to anchor a pair of heavy fabricated hinges that can fasten to the core support..

I have seen a few tilt front ends and they always seem to use HARDWARE STORE hinges....YUCK

I am thinking about using a couple pair of urethane spring bushings and make my own center tubes...

Far less rattle, and no grease needed with the urethane bushings.

Preliminary tape measure routine looks really good as far as positioning of the front end goes.

Going to have to cut the rear portion of the front fenders where they go down the side of the cab....probably up near the top of the wheel house opening to make the tilt setup work easy......

Biggest NECESSARY ITEM in locating the cab is to have enough room to be able to remove the distributor on the engine.....(Should be a simple thing)

Firewall location is the key....the fact that the engine sits low in the tub may make all this worry a mute point.

Throttle cable is about the only other issue is see so far that needs much in the way of concern...I want to be able to use OFF THE SHELF PARTS in this area......NO MICKEY MOUSE HERE....FACTORY STUFF THAT'S EASY TO GET....


Yesterday was HOT AGAIN AT 100 F 
not really pleasant outside.

Son in law was up and we grabbed the hood off the WLT and set it aside......

Thinking about adding some lifting lugs in the wheel house openings so the entire front end can be handled with the skid steer and some easy rigging.

I can't always depend on having muscle handy to lump stuff around.....

Not building something for Concours d'Elegance.....this is a beast of industrial origins.....and needs to be easy to work on by one person.

Ahhhh yesssss...the fun begins......

More pics when I get "SUMTHIN" to look at.

Waiting for the last 2 bearings for the drop boxes, the pinion gasket and 2 seals for the remaining band rod setup....

With these the box can be pretty well finished up..


----------



## Snowy Rivers

AXLE BEARING UPDATE

Sitting here sucking coffee and looking at the outer axle bearing and the retainer ring.

A bit ago I posted about the axles rubbing on the inner surface of the drop boxes...

The retainer is chewed up on the outer edge.....

Went down and took a peek at the axle tube on that side of the rig.

Yup....Retainer ring had been chewing on the end of the tube in the axle housing where the tube welds in.

The ring was acting as a thrust face and had chewed things up...

The metal that had been chewed up by the ring contacting the tube is likely the reason the bearing was busted up......

This mess probably cause some of the dings and nicks in the ring and pinion.


Definitely going to need to make sure the new retainers are well chamfered at the outer edge where they face the tube.

There also MUST  be a spacer in there to stop that bearing from being able to slide in.....


That bearing and retainer has been sitting here on my desk for months since I pulled the axle shafts out.

Such a mess in there at the time that I really paid little attention.....

NOW WE KNOW WHY.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Had a great day...got a fair bit of work done too.

Slow slog on several of the lower fender bolts.

LOTS OF SKUNK PIZZ AND PATIENCE TO REMOVE A FEW BOLTS WITHOUT BREAKING THEM...

Both fenders removed.

The core support was slightly damaged butttttttttttttttttttttttt.....quite easy to straighten up.

The body is in great shape with little to no rust.

I need to get the skunk pizz on the cab bolts asap and let it soak a bit so they will come loose.

May even be able to use the mounts ???????   we shall see....

Carefully removing all the wiring for the lighting off the front end....

Once the cab is on the cat....the wiring can be massaged to length to allow all the factory lighting to function as it did when new back in 1993.

The wiring looks great as do the plugs.

All the engine wiring needs to come loose to allow it to conmnect on the cat.

Using all the S10 sensors will make life easy and the dash gauges should work.....

The speedo is likely not going to be worth messing with.......


Fuel gauge on the early GM rigs is  0-90 ohms and with any luck the original setup that was in the 2100 can be replaced with a sender that will get the dash gauge operational.....

Temp gauge is a simple type sender with a single plug

The oil pressure switch is a tad more complicated....but the factory sender will work.

The original sending unit has the pressure sender and 12v feed for the in tank fuel pump.

The feed to the electric pump can be terminated and abandoned at the harness where it fed the fuel pump...   Simply cut and tape up the unwanted wires.

The 305 Chevy in the cat has a mechanical pump on the block.....this will be used as the supply pump....May add an electric pump as a primer pump.



Getting all the wiring off the engine and bundled up so it can be sorted out and routed to the 305 in the cat will require a bit of patience.

Same goes for the frame wiring that feeds the rear lights .

My intent is to have 100% of the factory lighting connected.....

The rear lamps will likely be the type used in heavy commercial trucks......

These are cheap and work well.....

If memory serves...we have a plastic tub of new lights on a shelf in the basement left from my trucking days....these new lights need a job....


In looking over the air plenum in the cowl after removing all the sheet metal and grille work and the wipers....lots of pine needles and junk.

Great time to get the heater fan out and clean the area up.

All in all this cab is in great shape.....

I was worried about rot/rust.

The truck appears to have come from a dry place with pine trees.....

Definitely getting exited about getting the cab off the chassis and being able to start designing the mounting hardware.

Should be really simple based on how the cab sits on the frame now.....

A pair of box tube cross members should do the trick really well.

Reuse the factory cab mounting holes and the rubber mounts (May need new rubbers)


----------



## Snowy Rivers

More ripping on the WLT.....

Cab mount bolts out...(Was very worried about those....as they are usually a royal pain to remove after 20 plus years.

The factory had used a sealer on the threads and they came right out....

LUCKY DEAL.

Bed is just about ready to come off.....2 bolts left.

Rear bumper was a little snot though.....


Mounting the cab on the cat is going to be easy.

Two 2 x 4 rectangle tubes can be massaged to accept the factory rubber mounts......

Bolt the tubes to the cat tub flange and life will be good.

The overall layout seems to be a good jump so far.

The cab on the WLT is pretty roomy.....Get rid of the bench seat and install buckets.....Sweeeeeeeeeeeeet.


Dash is basic but has full gauges....


The column is just hacked.....need to scare up a better one


----------



## Snowy Rivers

The last of the bed bolts came right out..

Bed off and ready to be RE-HOMED.....

The next step is to design and fabricate a lift rig for the cab...

Thinking about a simple H beam with bars on each side that can be slid back and forth to adjust the lift point and locked with a set screw (Bolt)


The cab can be lifted on the front using the top door hinge bracket where the fenders bot on.... Good stout materials that can withstand some weight.

Next comes a permanent set of lifting eyes that can be fastened onto the rear of the cab near the corners.

This will allow easy lifting and locating of the cab.

Using the skid steer and the extension lift I built to lift the engine should make handling the cab pretty easy.

The skid steer has plenty of vertical lift to be able to get the WLT cab up on the 2100 tub......


And on we go....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Nearly 100 F outside now....really happy to be inside where it is MUCH cooler

This truck was a standard cab short bed at a skosh over 6 foot long......

Too many bed lengths......

Ahhhh well...The cab is gonna fit quite nice on the old packer frame.....


I scared up a factory wiring book on ebay for the WLT

I may need top wring out a few circuits.

The previous crew made a mess out of the wiring in places.

Sure looks like the same crew that had been working on my 2100 worked on the WLT... GAWD....WHAT A MESS THESE TYPES MAKE......

But things are looking good...


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Today is gonna be rather mundane....

Gotta head off to the steel yard and get the materials needed to fabricate the cab lifting rig.

A fella from down state about 3 hours called and wants the rolling chassis...

So this revelation has definitely motivated me to MOVE A TAD FASTER....

Cooler weather for a few days so I hope to get the cab off ASAP

Gotta build an "H" RIG with the center bar capable of sliding....this will allow a straight pick and not have the cab leaning forward/backwards (As mentioned before)

With luck this will also allow an easy way to get the cab up on the cat.

May have to use the attachment I made to lift the power pack and maybe add an extension to get extra height.....not sure about the elevation yet...


Pretty boring stuff today.....but the tools will be needed several times during the fitting and possibly later to do service if need be.....

As soon as there is iron ready I will get pics.


At least it is going to be cooler over the weekend.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Well the day is done....dinner in the tummy and the cab lift itself is all welded up.

Nothing pretty, but it will allow the rigging to be set right on the center of the load.

Tomorrow I have to fab up the front lift bars that will bolt to the rear attachment points of the fenders.

Makes a great lift point.....

Also need to finish the lift pads that fasten to the back of the cab.

Down really low and inline with the cab mounts....

A simple flat plate with a 1/4 x 2 flat bar welded to it with a hole for the lift strap hook to grab on.

This little rig should allow the cab to come right off easily.

Be sweet when sitting the cab onto the cat chassis....nice and easy down into place and then locate the mounts......


Yeah....getting closer.......    

As soon as the cab is off the chassis has a new home.....


----------



## KickerM

Looks very nice! I usually just run a scrap thru the doors and lift, but much can be said for doing it the right way! Might want to beef up your center lift piont as all the stress is on that one piont and no one wants OSHA to pay you a visit!!!


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Those guys GAWD NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.....

I have lifted cabs with a 4x4 through the open door windows.....BUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT....IT CAN CAUSE ISSUES.

The cab is not all that heavy.....I just want to be able to control things well and not worry about having a train wreck.....

Actually that center lift will hold a lot of weight....

Cab is in the 400 pound range me thinks.....

I will watch things on the first lift and if it looks at all hinky I will add more metal.

Second washer along side the first... 


I wanted to keep the profile as low as possible so I don't lose any lift potential.


Another thing....IF the cab needs to come off in the future for repairs on the engine/tranny.....I want to have tools ready to go without having to worry about HOW TO DO IT AGAIN.....

I can hang the rigging in the barn on the back wall for the "JUST IN CASE"


Right now I want the cab off and sitting on a big tire so I can OFF THE CHASSIS.

In a few days a complete factory electrical book will be here and I want to wring out the wiring in a few places that have been thrashed by the P O ....

The plan is to use all the S10 wiring, gauges and such....the ignition key and all the controls.....Once it is in place ...I don't want to screw with it....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Busy morning...had to help a friend out.
We installed an Easy lift hitch on her pickup/tailer.

Got that done and continued to thrash on THE WLT

Getting all the wiring loose on the engine and chassis.

The lift lugs on the cab are nearly complete.

Front ones bolted on to the lugs the front fenders bolt to by the door hinges.

Re-purposed the flat hooks off some old semi trailer flat strap ties downs that were worn out...(Garage sale thing  $5 for a box full)

Cut the straps off and then welded a ring on the outside to grab with the ratchet straps.....

No need to modify the rear lower wall of the cab...
Easy grab under the rear wall...stick some cardboard between the back of the cab and the hook to keep from munging up the cab......

Early tomorrow we will go for a lift......

If fortune favors the foolish.....the little "Soon to be cat cab" will be swinging in the wind....

Will get pix when it happens......


----------



## Snowy Rivers

A very good Sunday morning......

Finished welding up the rear grab hooks to lift the cab off the WLT

Things went very very well.

Got the lift frame positioned on the ground and sat the skid steer bucket over the top of the frame.

Rigged up a chain to the D RING on the bucket and raised the lift and placed the frame over the cab.

Hung the ratchet straps on the 4 lift points and tightened things up.

Went for a little pressure on the lift and the back came up about  a foot before the front came off the frame.....GOOD ENOUGH FOR THIS LIFT....

Had one hidden ground strap that had to be dealt with.....OFF IT CAME.

Scared up a big tire to sit the cab on.....plop....good to go.

Went through and made a video of all the various connectors and wires.

The starter solenoid wire (Purple) had some how got chopped off...??????

The main heavy feed line (Red that feeds the cab and power) had been violated and got up against the exhaust....melted the wire in two....but the burn was just before the fusible link....

Should not have hurt anything......

As time allows I will dummy up a battery and hook things up to check things out.

I can wrangle all the systems out with the cab on the TIRE and then be able to get at everything to fix anything that needs it.

I saved all wires to the rear for LIGHTS. FUEL GAUGE YADA YADA YADA.

The T5 TRANNY had a backup light switch.....that can be wired into the cable operated auto shifter easily.

Someplace under the dash is a clutch switch......Wires from that will connect to the neutral switch in the new cable shifter.


The thought has been bounced around about using the little pickup box on the rear of the cat......

Maybe do that and add a little canopy too.....

Things are still in a state of flux...

This cab looks like it will be a nice fit on the 2100 frame.

Cab sitting all snug on that big tire for now.

Column still needs to come out....

It is totally trashed.....The tilt is broken and the key tumbler is broken too.

I am in hopes that the accessories like the wipers, heater and such all work.

Snooping around I have not seen any signs of other damage to the electrical sytem.

Manual windows and door locks.

We shall see wassssup as time permits..

Next thing is to get the WLT corpse on it's way to it's new home....

Sounds like near the end of the week it will go away


Before we go for a second pick and a trial fit on the cat I need to get two more ratchet straps that match my good ones.

I had a mismatched bunch this time.....clumsy....I have two that are self retracting.....yesssssssssssssss

Need two more good ones.....

Before the WLT leaves I need to measure the cab mount points on the frame so I can fabricate the tube riser frames to mount the cab to the cat chassis.

Easier to measure the factory mount points on the truck than try to guess at it....

The width of the S10 cab mounts is almost right over the top rail on the cat tub.

Make a box tube riser rail to carry the factory type mounts and then bolt the entire assembly to the tub.....likely 4 bolts on each side....

A angle riser welded to the box tube and then a plate down over the top rail.


Simple....just need to get good dims before the frame goes away


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Sitting here sucking down coffee this morning and wrangling on a plan to test out the entire CAB WIRING.

Now is a great time to work through all the wiring in the cab/engine bay and make sure EVERYTHING WORKS

Since finding the shorted wires at the starter and the purple solenoid wire broken off/cut waaaaaaaaaaay up in the harness and other cobbled up stuff......

A great time to mock up all the wiring harnesses and connect grounds, hot leads etc.... to a battery and then wring it all out.

There is a lot of wires/plugs that were for things that will no longer exist in the new environment......

Power to run the large cap HEI  ( Big PINK WIRE)
Fuel sending unit  0 to 90 ohm sender
Oil pressure sending unit
Engine temp sending unit
Alternator volt meter

All this stuff can be easily mocked up with the cab on the ground (WHERE I CAN GET ALL OVER IT)

All systems can be tested for operation.
Starter
All the gauges
All the exterior lighting 
All the interior accessory functions  ...Heater, wipers and such

I want to run all the wiring to a central location that can be accessed easily and the engine to the same place (Junction/terminal block)

This will make field service extremely simple.....

Since the cab is so easy to get to NOW .....great time to get all the wiring dialed in.....

After all the needed circuits are VERIFIED as operational....the extra plugs/wires can be cleaned up and abandoned in place.

Once all this stuff is in good order the cab can be located on the cat and the wiring stuff will not be much worry....

The main wire harness on the firewall is in pretty decent shape overall....so just a matter of fastening it all up neat and tidy....

The original wire harness anchors that fasten things to the engine/bell housing were loose...likely either engine has been out or tranny/clutch work and the folks doing the work did not care about putting the stuff back.

Typical with many older rigs......hack it together and move on.....until the wiring rubs on something and fries STUFF......  AS THIS ONE DID.


I think I will scarf the Alternator and starter off the WLT to use for test purposes.

The Camaro 305 engine had a SI10 alternator and the WLT (93 S10) has a CS130 alternator (Serp belt)
The plan is to install a good high output CS130 alternator with a V belt drive that will match the 305 equipment.

I have thought about setting up a serp drive...but the older block and heads may not have all the needed holes for mounting.

I need to research this a bit....I want to replace the water pump on the 305 anyway....and now would be a great time to do it.....

But there are caveats.

I do not have a power steering pump or AC pump.

Possibly there are DELEAT idlers available for such swaps....

Anyway.....

And the fun continues.


----------



## loggah

Pretty near time to call it the "thiokol 2100 conversion" dont you think !!!! This thread has more twists and turns than a boa constrictor !!!! carry on !!!!


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## Snowy Rivers

Yeah it sure has....

Once the cab is sitting up on the 2100 frame we can figure out what to call this thing....

Early on in this thread somebody called it a FrankenCat......pretty good description me thinks.

These roll your own projects can take strange twists and turns for sure.....

But overall I am becoming more and more pleased with the S10 cab addition...

The extra ease of maintenance is going to be a good thing.....

The cost for materials to mount the cab is a very small portion of what I had originally costed out to mount the van.....

Some discussion has taken place around here about mounting the cute little pickup bed on behind the original 2100 fuel tank....

A canopy on the bed would make the space quite usable.

The only caveat will be getting into the bed.....pretty high off the ground/snow

There is a lot to be said for refurbishing an existing design and restoring it to original with only minimal modifications..

This hatchling I am working on is definitely going to be unique......

But with all off the shelf parts for so much, it will be an easy fixer if need be....

Never ever wanted an S10.....HMMMMMM "FRANKEN-10"



All joking aside, the S10 switch is really looking good....Much easier to handle with my equipment and I can work alone with ease and not have to round up additional muscle... 


I have a pretty good "Minds Eye" idea what the finished beast will look like.....Just remains to be seen if the pickup box gets into the act or not.

The box is a tad long for the application even though it is a SHORTY at 73"

I can add a bit to the rear frame of the cat to hold up the box.....

We will see.

Best part is this switch.... In a few days it will have cost ZERO out of pocket $$$$$$$$

I still need to scare up a good steering column......

The planning and scheming  is the most fun....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

TODAY STARTED OUT GOOD....THEN WENT DOWN HILL.

Decided to clean up the wiring on the front of the cab and get everything sorted out that will be needed to run the 305 once the cab is mounted.

Picture shows everything
Far right side of pic FROM Right to left

Throttle cable....looks long enough to gitterdone...and has the proper fitting on the end.

Green wire.....Engine temp gauge wire

Batch of ground wires

Oil pressure sender (Plug cut off)

Green/blue   Backup lamp (Had switch on 5 spped trans)

Purple and Red (Barely visible) Starter solenoid and power feed from starter main lug.

Pink/white  Coil HOT lead and white for tach if used

Purple plug hanging low.....with orange wire....Alternator leads.

Got this stuff all sorted out and then decided to clean out the rodent nest in the heater fan......

Then came the mess of pine needles in the AC evaporator box.

Tore that apart.

Took the core out...do not need it.

Discovered that the heater core was leaking....ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH

Ended up pulling the dash off...the previous crew had been in there too...

MORE ARRRRRRRGH....

Heat box cover has two broken screw lugs on the cover at the top...need to scare up a cover and a core.

Column out on the ground too.

Gotta scare up a good column.

Bone yard u pull it tomorrow.

What a mess.

Better to fix this stuff now than later on when things will be far tougher to get to....


A bag of worms....


If good fortune favors the foolish....maybe snag a column and a heater box cover...tomorrow.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Spent the entire day snooping for parts to fix....THE HEATER   Got a good core cover and all the correct screws.....

Found the proper dash pad  NUTS that are self centering that go by the windshield.....

Found several other little bunches of proper screws...

NO GO ON A COLUMN.

1993 is a Bastard child and none of the yards had any...NONE AT ALL.

Found a couple online....BUT THEY WANTED 40 PRICES FOR THEM.

Mid run on the Gen 1 S10 trucks are pretty much all interchangeable .....Not the 1993 or 1994....Both are odd.

From there we go into the Gen 2....Noooooooooooooooooooooo...

Came home empty handed and unhappy.

Butttttttttttttttttttttt.....Took the old column apart and looked the entire thing over well.

The Windshield wiper switch seems to be the big hangup....but there are other glitch's too....

Decided that this mess is a bridge too far.

Cut the base of the old column off and tossed the rest in the scrap.

Plan is as follows.

Add a hollow tube to the old base and then fabricate a flange for the top (Where the wheel would be)

Add needed area to mount a heavy duty truck type ignition switch.

Add short round pedestal to mount a big truck universal turn signal switch unit  (Has lever and 4 way flasher lock)

Add a small appendage to mount the  needed wiper switch stalk.....

The wiper switch will plug and play.

The "Multifunction" set up will be not so all in one....

The Turn signal function will be by itself, the wiper will be on it's own and the high beam lights will be a button like we saw on the floor of rigs years ago.

The steering will be done using the twin lever brake application units I had planned to use in the van.

I had though that having the steering wheel do a 1/8 turn thing Right/left would be a cool deal....

Become a nightmare....

All  the parts will now be readily available off the shelf stuff...  I LIKE IT....


So.....I have the original column base (Bolts to firewall)
The cradle that bolts up under the dash with the two nuts.

Will get after the tube and other materials to get the original wiper switch, an ignition switch  (Push button start ) and a separate turn signal unit.

I have a factory electrical schematic book coming tomorrow.......

Just need to wring out all the wire colors and lay things out.....

Be a simple little job to gitterdone.....


This beats the hell out of chasing a hard to find column.......


Soon as the heater core gets here that part can go in and the dash can go back together.

Several of the factory screws and other stuff had been lost or otherwise violated by previous folks....scaring up the tid bits.....

The glove box door latch was trashed....found one
A couple of the lower valance panels were either missing or broken.

Did not see any of the tan ones....may grab a selection of different colors..

Red, gray, and a couple other options to fill out the needed parts


FRANKENCAT......ALL THE WAY....

Keep it neat and FUNCTION ABOVE ALL ELSE MUST BE 100%


The hollow pseudo column will allow the air lines to feed up through from the front to the control valves and then back out....Will keep clutter to a minimum


I really had not thought that finding a column for a 1993 S10 would be this tough....So many of those rigs out there.....
 But a one off year model on this part really makes things get hinky.....

Ah well.


Moving ahead....


----------



## KickerM

Thiokol 2100 + S10 = T10 or T2110 ??? Lol keep up the good work!


----------



## Snowy Rivers

FrankenCat-T2110

C-M-R      FrankenCat T2110


CMR   Initials for the Ranch here  (Cloud Mt. Ranch)

Be easy to add the letters to the grille.....   Sort of like DMC...LMC....YADA YADA...YADA

We are getting closer.....

Sorting through the schematic on the cab and the connectors DO NOT match whats in the real world (IN THE CAB)  

The WLT is a late 92 production titled as a 93 and the switches are different.

The wiper switch had bare spots and other damage to the wires up close to the switch.....needs a fresh one before I install it.


Got to looking at the plug that goes into the dash harness and it is totally different than the 93 switch.

Some snooping and then discovered the issue.

Tilt wheel/With pulse wiper/ Without cruise control.

Anyway....I am not popping for several hundred $$$$ for a wretched column that may or may not be worth a !@#T.......

Custom stalk with the air valve levers and custom signal and wiper switch.


I have seen mid run and transition model rigs that can drive ya nuts with stuff that is not in any parts book...at least and fit......


Sucking up coffee and looking at the original steering wheel mounted arrangement I had for use in the van....

Cannibalize that setup and use the valves/bracket and the hand rest bar.

Be easy to fashion a plate to go onto the new "Column....control stalk" and mount the steering controls.....signal switch, wiper switch, ignition switch... all right handy....

Ordered up the heater core.....as soon as that gets here I can get the dash back off the floor and remounted....then we can look at the operator control station layout....


Today is the first rain we have had in nearly a month.....rather damp out this morning.....

Looking like once this heater/dash thing is sorted out the cab will actually be pretty well set.

Wiring to connect all the existing wires to the engine will need to follow after the cab is mounted....

Need to use all the S10 sending units....

GAWD I HOPE THOSE ARE NOT BASTARDS TOO....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Picked up a fresh heater core today....Got that sucker buttoned back up.

Tomorrow the dash gets bolted back up.

Picked up some tubing today to fabricate the Pseudo column .....

Wrung out the linear ignition switch and things are ready to cut the original plugs off and install a regular "Turn type....ignition switch in the operator station.

Going to have to engineer a turn signal switch mounting base.

Rewiring the setup to accept a heavy truck signal switch...although doable is not worth the PITA.

A factory switch is a known quantity and will plug right into the existing harness....JUST LIKE LEGOS....

Also the wiper switch is all part of it too.....

May have to tweak stuff for the dimmer switch....

May be workable to mount the factory dimmer switch too....


I want as much easy to fetch off the shelf stuff as possible.....

Stuff that can be had at any parts house if need be.....


Been a busy day.....

Be safe troops.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Got busy this morning and wrangled the dash back into place in the cab.

Seeing these done in video's of the factory building the rigs makes it look easy.....

Well, a hydraulic jack and a chunk of 2 X 4  (WOOD) really goes a long way to helping get that bad boy positioned and hold it so the bolts/screws can be  installed.

Up by the windshield there are 4 sliding type nut assemblies that are made to allow the screws to move the nut into position and then the screw threads into the nut.

Cute little gizmo..

The lower dash bolts were missing, and that was not good.

Several other fasteners were either wrong or missing.

The glove box and door assembly as well as the radio bezel/cover were missing several screws.

Rocker area/carpet hold down plates (Plastic) was broken on the LH side.

Made a shopping list and we headed to the bone yard this morning.

The selection of 88 to 93 S10 rigs is well picked over now....but we got most of what was needed.....

Took the items off the donors and dropped then in sandwich bags with little tags..

Nice to get the factory stuff back in the mix....

The screw holes on the glove box area of the dash were all stripped out.

PLASTIC

Got some JB Weld

Mixed up a batch and forced the JB into the screw holes.....will let cure over night and the align the parts and drill a small hole in the screw bosses.

Hopefully this will allow the fasteners to get a grip again.....

Vacuumed out the cab   WHAT A SUMP.....


Just about got the design for the Pseudo column done.

I can get the top column housing new for $21

This is the part that has the multifunction switch in it (Just below the wheel normally)

The new housing can be modified easily to allow the entire Muti switch to mount and work correctly.

Far easier to get this all put together and have a factory switch set in place and also one that plugs into the factory wiring harness....


The factory column mounting cradle (Right below the dash trim cover and has 4 bolts holding it to the column) is usable with the new set up....

The trim panel will fit back up and give an overall finished look to the arrangement .....

Tossed the ash tray and it's slider in the garbage .....it was just under the radio..... also removed the heater lower trim cover....Not really of much use, and just more screws to mess with.....

Keeping things neat and uncluttered.

The radio that was in the rig was junk.....tossed it.

Eventually a good AM/FM CD player is likely.

Still need a couple arm rests for the doors.....The RH side is still good, LH is Franken Color....and trash.

Will try to find a matched pair color wise...

Franken Color is fine....just want a decent set.

We are gaining on it.

Hope to be able to rig up and do a trial fit on the cat here soon.

Some 4x4 wood posts across the cat tub will work OK for a mock up.....

I am excited about seeing the cab on the cat.

Thinking about an Orange and black Zebra type paint scheme.....Will stick out for sure....


All for now......

Tired....been a busy day....


----------



## vintagebike

Paint/wrap suggestion.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

OMG....SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO COOL

That would be sweet.....but wraps are not an economical undertaking..

We had a little "Smart Car" a few years ago....I looked into doing a wrap on the front end with just some flames.....it was going to be in the $500 range

I think this Cat is going to get a 2 or 3 color rattle can Camo job....

Actually, other than some very casual...fast moving thoughts the paint scheme on the cab has not been in the forefront of my thoughts.

Other than getting the tub sort of spiffed up a bit as I move forward...paint is just a distant idea......

Thank you for the cool ideas though......


----------



## Puckle

Hi Snowy, just spent all morning wading through all 33 pages of your thread - quite an epic - makes War & Peace seem like a little light bedtime read!
Seriously though, great posts, full of useful info and cool idea's - I particularly liked the N nut spanner - going to make one of those myself.
Keep up the good work, looking forward to seeing the end result.


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## Snowy Rivers

Thank you for the blessings.

Yesssss..this has been an epic journey for sure.

I have mentioned it a coupled times....rebuilding an existing design and getting it back to running order is a decent task.....Designing and building a Franken Cat is another story all together.

Trying to make all sorts of things work can be a daunting task.

As was probably evident in  your read.....sometimes things sound great, but then there comes an entire flock of flies to get stuck in the ointment....

I was a field service engineer in the wood products industry for many years....

The term "Engineer" was a "Title"  READ AS ....THE HAPLESS SOUL WHO GOES OUT AND MAKES STUFF WORK WHEN IT WILL NOT..

Goes sort of like this....

We the unwilling, are doing for the ungrateful....we have done so much for so long with so little....we are now qualified to do anything with nothing...


Been at remote mill sites and had to deal with making stuff work that was not made right and the engineers back at the plant have no clue....

Adapt, make due.....gitterdone.

This project has certainly made some twists and turns.....but I am pleased where it is now and how it is progressing...


----------



## Puckle

yeah, know what you mean - I was a marine engineer - can't call for help in the middle of the ocean, just got to get on and fix it


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## Snowy Rivers

YUP....THAT'S ABOUT IT



Today the new Pseudo column came into being.

With the lower 6" of the original column cut off and a piece of 2-1/4" heavy wall exhaust tube pressed onto the original stub....things started to grow.


Drilled and tapped 2 pieces of 3/4" x 1/2" bar stock and bolted them to the column cradle....

Tack welded things up and did a trial fit....SWEEEEEEEEEEEEET

Actually fit back in easier than the original column did.....

Yanked it out and welded things up good.

The tube is quite a bit too long at present.

Going to scare up a piece of 4" aluminum round stock tomorrow and start whittling on it.

I need the aluminum bar to fit inside the column tube and then back to about 3-3/4" so the turn signal switch housing (Multi switch)  will slip over the aluminum.

The bar will protrude through the switch housing enough to allow a cover plate to go over the signal switch.

Then the mount for the steering valves and the rest of the operator station will bolt to the end of the aluminum stub.

Should end up with a very compact operator station that will be easy to service if need be.

Pics of the cab with dash back on (The glove box is all back together now)

The JB weld in the screw holes worked like a charm...Drilled out and screwed the original screws back in....

The new column in flux....

All bolted in....

Gotta see what shakes in the morning.....need some 4" aluminum about 12 inches long

Gonna make a lot of shavings with that bad boy.

But I think the design will work well and allow factory parts to plug in....

Just like Legos.....

Ignition wiring, Wiper wiring cut off due to the other crew trashing the plug.

Going to rewire the ignition to use a panel mount rotary switch and so the big plugs go bye bye....

The dimmer switch will get swapped to a big toggle switch or ????/


The multi switch set up for the dimmer is a tad iffy with my new column.....

OH...BTW

I discovered a LOKAR  shifter the fastens to the tranny (TH350) and they offer various length shift levers.

Very very good chance that the cab will position on the cat so the shifter will sit right in the factory hole in the tunnel.

Far better than a cable shifter.....much easier to install and work on if need be.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Yarded the column back out and trimmed it to the needed length.

Look closely at the one pic looking in the top end of the column and you can see the milled hole on the right hand side just above the column saddle.

This is to allow the air tubing to come up the column and out and feed the air valves that mount on top of the operator station.....


Turned up a "Spud shaft" to weld into the top of the column and allow the Signal switch and multi function switch to mount.

The sleeve collar that will end up being welded to the spud shaft.....need to weld 3 pieces of bar stock to the spud shaft and then get that unit back in the lathe and machine the unit to allow the sleeve collar to be welded on.

The slots past the bar stock will allow wiring to pass down through the area and connect to the dash harness......


The one piccy shows the upper column switch housing hanging on the spud shaft.

When complete the spud shaft will stick past the Signal switch housing by 1/16" or so.

The angle operator station will fasten to the spud with one 3/8" grade 8 bolt on center and one 1/4" bolt near the top edge of the spud to keep the assembly from rotating...

The completed operator area will have the two air steering valves, the signal switch and the multi function switch, the dimmer switch and a rotary ignition switch to the right side....

Quite a bag of goodies to cram into the area.

After mocking things up it still allows good visual of the Fuel gauge, Oil pressure gauge, Volt meter and engine temp gauge...

Speedo was/is a waste of time....A tach mounted above the head lamp switch on the far left of the dash will be far more useful .....

One might ask about WHY SUCH A CONVOLUTED LASH UP to get the switch housing mounted...

I wanted a chunk of 4" aluminum bar to whittle down.

Nobody in the area had a short chunk of 4" alloy.....and they would not cut a bar.....


So I designed the thing again and made it a fabricated part....

Machined the spud shaft, the sleeve collar and then weld them together....

Cost was far and away cheaper to do it with a machined fabrication......

A bit heavier.....but such is life.

One more bag of worms to take care of.

This morning while sitting in the cab...the light was right to see that the the driver door hinge is shot.

Going to need to remove the door and weld up the outer part of the hinge pin holes on the top hinge and the massage them a bit and install new pins and bushings....

These bad boys are in bad shape....


Having the door fall off would suck.... 


Now is a great time to gitterdone.....


Very easy to grab the door by the widow casing and lift it off.....

The hinges on these older S10 are welded to the door and thew body....not serviceable as a part.....

Pins and bushings, but when they wear this far....  Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh


----------



## Snowy Rivers

I waited on finishing the column housing adapter until the new one got here today...Glad I did.....

The new one was made on the left side of the pond.....and the internal dimension was a tad different.

Had to stick the sleeve back in the lathe and take about .030" off the OD

Also had to make a mill cut where the bottom cap around the signal switch lever slides in...

Tad bit of mods to the inside of the lower cover to allow the sleeve to fit.

All good to go

Tomorrow the Spud shaft gets mated to the sleeve and things will come together........


A few pics.

Really nice having all the parts fitting up together to make a complete package......


With a bit of luck we may see some major progress tomorrow to the operator station...


----------



## Snowy Rivers

A great day today

The operators station is definitely coming together.

Finished the machining on the spud shaft and bored the bottom portion out to lighten the part (Portion that plugs into the column)

Decided to make the spud shaft a bolt in item.....

Getting the metal head assembly all cozy with the switch head assembly is not hard....but does take a bit of finesse to snake the wires down into the metal part....and having the ability to get it in your lap to fool with it seemed like a plan.


The aluminum valve mounting plate fastens to the end of the spud shaft with a bolt.....

The steering valve assembly bolts to the top of the valve plate.

There is a nice spot just slightly out from the original Key location to mount the new ignition switch.

Be close to the heater controls....sort of on and angle in the corner.......


I took the hand rest assembly and shortened it about 1-1/4" and it fastens to the valve mounting plate.

The soft foam noodle and dowel will be back between the brackets.

The S10 dash is a tad more compact than the original setup that I had for the Van.

Getting to use all the parts....Well.... most of them 


A bit of trimming has to be done on the right side of the valve plate where it slips into the dash gauge recessed area.

The nylon air line will sneak up out of the column and curve around and into the valve ports... (Push in type/quick release)

The Orange hammer is sitting on a perfect spot to mount a tach....Right above the head light switch assembly.....Easy to remove the switch panel and access nuts/screws to hold the tach base to the dash....


Tomorrow the hand rest center dowel gets cut and then reinstalled with the black foam pad....


These little projects definitely take time.

Still waiting for a couple bearings....Coming out of Macedonia....(Super deal off ebay....hurry up and wait.....Two 6014 ball bearings)

Once these are here the dop boxes and gears can go back into the OC12


What a job these Franken rigs can be.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Pretty well wrapped up the operator station .

Will need to install the new switches into the column head and do the final fit on the new ignition switch.  (The original switches were used as mock up's)

Got the ignition switch mounting plate done today and installed the foam pad.....

Pretty happy with the layout and overall feel of this set up....

Getting the air tubing into the valves will not be at all bad either....


The one caveat was getting the head lamp dimmer switch to operate as it did in the original layout.

The original rod was missing....so not going to sweat it.

Likely add a single pole double throw toggle switch just to the left of the LH steering valve.....

Don't figure I will need to worry about much traffic..... :th_lmao:


Gotta get the ignition switch and install it.....


Some pix


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Had to mend the fence in one of the horse paddocks this morning.  100 F weather coming starting later today through Monday  ARRRRRRRGH

Now onto more fun things to do.

Cat cab has a real bad set of hinges on the driver door.

Bushings are totally wasted....and the hinge too.

This may get UGLY.

Got the Skid steer over by the cab and rigged to hang the air hoist on...

A little lift on the door and tap out the old hinge pins and then see what we have to work with.

From what I can see it is going to involve some serious fooling to get this fixed.

I hope it is only the top hinge.

The bushings are gone and the hole is totally elongated to the point of NOTHING LEFT.

Likely make a new piece to replace the old end where the hole is and use the remaining side of the hole to locate the hole in the new part.

Machine a slab off the new piece to allow it to blend with where the old part was.

Bolt the pieces together before drilling the new hole.

Once things are fit and aligned....cut off the old chunk and lay ion the new pieces.....weld in place.

Sounds good....WE SHALL SEE....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Good news.

After getting the driver door off the cab (Little skid steer holding the load)

The hinge bushing holes were not as bad looking as I originally thought.

Worn ????? YES...But not nearly as bad as I thought they were.....

Peened the holes after getting the new bushings in.....

Not spiffy new looking....but quite usable..

The pins were the ones the cab came new with back in 93.

The lower bushing in the upper hinge was a tad sketchy.....there was concern that the bushing could slip down as there is no "thrust" on the bushing head.

I decided to make an aluminum "C" SPACER.....and pinch it closed to keep the bushing from dropping......

Door closes nicely...WITHOUT having to swing it from Montana to get it latched.

A gentle shove and "CLICK"   all good.

With the door repaired I am looking at a trial fit onto the cat chassis....Maybe tomorrow.....


The extension I built to set the engine will work well to set the cab onto the frame.

Need to cut some 4x4 (Wood) to sit across the cat tub and rest the cab on.

Several things will be in focus once the cab is REALLY IN THE POSITION IT IS GOING TO LIVE.....

Wiring, other plumbing, location of the cab Vs the engine, transmission in relation to the hole in the floor (The LOKAR shifter looks promising)

Just a lot of stuff can be looked at carefully to see wasssssup and how things are going to work together.....


This part of the program has been getting me excited for quite a while.....

Actually seeing THE CAB on the cat frame will be a milestone.....

Had certainly hoped for the Astro van....but the S10 cab is going to make the build and subsequent servicing much much easier.....

This afternoon the though of the pickup box getting into the mix started creeping into my mind  ......

The rear wheel house areas (Right and left) will be a fine spot to mount air tanks for the steering.....

Some creative sheet aluminum can direct warm air off the big azz exhaust pipes to warm the air tanks....

Just a thought.......



Ahhhhhh....the little silver tool......SPRING COMPRESSOR

Worth every penny of the $20 it cost.

The door detent spring is a beotch to deal with....this tool makes it a snap.

GM used this spring in many vehicles.

Some folks use 3 zip ties and a C clamp ...../clamp the spring and then zip tie it....insert and cut the ties...

The tool is much easier........

Overall....a great day.......


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Weather was just too hot out yesterday to do much heavy work...

Finished stripping the last few tid bits needed off S10 

Oil pressure sender, Temp gauge sender and the original master cylinder....

The gauge senders mostly to be able to make sure the new ones I get are correct.....and the originals will likely be fine to do my initial testing of the wiring and all the systems before mounting things permanently.

The master cylinder will give up it's bolt flange to allow adaptation of the air treadle valve that operates off the original brake pedal.. (I want the original brake pedal to operate as a safety in case an inexperienced operator is at the controls and wants to STOP NOW and panics)

The master cylinder flange will slip right up onto the vacuum booster as it always did.....but simply make adaptation of a E3 valve easy.....


Grabbed the S10 frame and hauled it out to the back lot and parked it pending the arrival of it's new owner......

Another chapter completed.

Going to get outside at first light and hook up the lift rig on the skid steer and see about a test fitting of the cab on the cat chassis......


Some nice 65 F weather would be quite welcome.....another scorcher today......


Later troops


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Out at the Buttcrack of dawn this morning....very very warm last night.

Got the skid steer into position, lashed on the lift extension and hung the air hoist.

Hooked on the lifting rig and got things all set up.

Made a few preliminary picks to get the cab level (Adjusted the slider beam to get it just right)

Picked the cab up and with the Skid steer boom all the way up I had to curl the bucket some in order to get enough overall lift.

There is still a little bit of elevation left for a pinch....but not much.

Cut some 4x4 posts 5 feet long and tossed them across the tub to set the cab on.

Fiddled about to get the cab set on center.......

The Fore/aft setting appears good.

Plenty of room aft of the cab to fit the factory 2100 fuel tank back into the stock location......


3'-5" to the bottom of the doors from the ground...  Tall drink of water for sure.

Gonna need some good steps to mount this beast.....Even when stepping up off the top of the tracks...

I am just amazed at how much room around the engine there is.....

The elevation on the cab is great, and the cab is located nearly identical to the 2100 stock cab Fore/aft.....


Took about an hour after rigging to get the cab situated by myself.

Lowered it onto the 4x4


Decided after spending another hour or so fooling with adjusting the location that I am going to fabricate the cab mount beams on location before removing the cab again.

Going to use 3-1/2" x 1/8" box tubing and add the platforms for the mounting biscuits.

A flange on the outside of the tub rail and an angle on the inside with bolts to fasten the beams to the tub rail.

Be easy to locate once there are drilled holes......


I need to get the tubing and a set of urethane body mounts.


So far the jury is out on the throttle cable.....probably about a foot longer than stock.

The shifter for the tranny is also still a big ?????????    A cable shifter.....possibly the Lokar tranny mounted unit.....

Plenty of room to service the engine and do other things needed for the build.

Been a great step forward today.....


Sitting in the command chair IT IS A LONG WAY DOWN.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Slow day today.

Fooled with the new mounting plates where the cab urethane mounts go.

Got the ones for the front of the cab under construction now.

Had folks stopping by and that held up getting much done.

Located the needed 3-1/2" box tube at a local steel yard.

Good there.

Sitting in the shade sucking on a cold one and had a thought.

A second cab from an S10 will fit backwards on this build and make a lovely second crew compartment.

Rip out the dash and all the unnecessary  crap.

Leave the heater and the wipers.....

Will make a nice little cab for more people.....

Might even mount it the same way as the front cab......???????

Instant extra room.....

What say yee ??????


----------



## loggah

Put a sleeper on it !!!!, Dont have more then one cold one!!!! If you get a cab off a railroad  section car they look in both directions !!


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Not a bad idea........

After spending some time sitting up in the cab (Making Snow cat noises):th_lmao:.....I am thinking seriously about not using the original fenders, hood and core support.....

Instead fabricating a light tube frame tilt hood assembly that has a pretty extreme slope to it toward the front.

Sort of the like the droop nose Kenworth trucks.

Taper the front down to where it nearly matches the original 2100 nose width.

Having the big open fenders to need to cover up makes no real sense.....

A custom snout (Ant eater)   

Install a fair sized LED light bar on the nose for forward lighting.....
(We have one on the Skid steer in place of the little stock work lights)

These put out huge amounts of light and draw very minimal amps.

A lot of interesting ideas come to mind as far as lighting goes.....

The industrial/truck lighting sources are pretty well stocked with easy to work with items.

The low beam wiring in the cab can easily be used to run a small LED bar and then the high beam set to run a BIG AZZ road burner.....


We are definitely at a crossroads with many options available to explore before jumping onto the front end construction.

The anteater nose is really interesting......

The forward visibility will be greatly increased.

Also will add to the FrankenCat theme too 

And another damned fool crusade begins


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Spent the morning cleaning up the cab mounting hardware.

The upper/lower steel cups and the bolts.

The front cups were a tad groady.....a fair amount of rust and such were the dirt had collected around the rubber biscuits.

Parts are not cherry, but quite serviceable.

Got the stuff cleaned up and some rust kill paint sprayed on them.

Did some measuring and some designing on the "Anteater" hood.....


Definitely gonna be different looking.....


Gonna build a rectangular box affair from the air inlet at the cowl down to just below the AC/HEATER box to cover the heater, firewall and the power brake booster.

A faring down each side with a shield to keep sloppy slush and such from getting blown into the engine bay.

The anteater hood will follow the taper of the tub and slope up to meet the firewall box assembly.

Slope on the snout should be about a 30 degree slope.....

Visibility out the windshield should be sweeet....

Still sketching and measuring......in a few days will get some materials and start construction....


This is going to be a BUILD IT ON SITE JOB.....BUILD IT TO FIT....


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## Snowy Rivers

Back to more way too mundane things....

Engineering the front cowl cover box (Or whatever we want to call it)

The box will sit down right where the  rear of the truck hood used to sit in the water drain area in the air inlet cover by the windshield.

I want this fabrication to trim out the adaptation between the S10 cab and the new custom "Anteater" hood

The issue of keeping water from drizzling down over the top of the engine came to mind.

Generally most rigs have a rubber seal to help keep out the water.

Decided to head down to the bone yard and see what could be scared up that would be readily available later if need be....to see if my idea had merit as well.


The S10 does not seem to have much in the way of a seal....book shows one, buttttttttttttt the rigs at the yard did not have them......

An entire area of GM vehicles to snoop through and yesssssssssssssssssssssss
found the perfect weather strip to use.

2007 Pontiac GrandPrix  

The right shape and a bit too long so it can be fit perfectly to the cowl vent cover.......

Best part was the price...found 3 of them all in a row and all very nice. $9 for the lot....

The new cowl cover will be a bolt on unit that can easily come off to access the firewall to deal with Wiper the wiper motor and a few other goodies.

Likely this assembly will wind up being made from 1/8" aluminum tread plate pop riveted to 1 inch square tube..

I am thinking that the Anteater hood will also do well being covered with tread plate.

Simple and rugged.....


No need to paint it either.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Cleaned up the weather strip and then tapped the metal closure down tight so it will grip the metal flange.

Oh yessssssssssssssssssss....gonna be sweeeeeet.

I am sitting there sucking up a cola and looking at things....then another can of worms jumped off the page at me.

If ya look at the engine location and then look up at the heater core outlet/inlet tubes.....

Hmmmmmm

Gonna have to install a HIGH MOUNT burp tank above the heater core to keep the system from air locking.

Also there is a very real possibility that a coolant booster pump may be needed to to get coolant moving through the heater core.....at least when the engine is not running at a good clip.

Slow engine RPM may yield a cold/cool heater air flow.

GM used some booster pumps on a few rigs and the aftermarket can handle it if the GM ones are tough to find.


These Franken rigs are never at a loss for another "What do we do now" type thing....


There is a handy spot on the outer edge of the cowl by the drivers door that seems to be of sufficient size to anchor a little burp tank....

Seems that this cooling system will need to be filled at the radiator until its full, and then capping the radiator and continuing to fill things at the top mounted burp tank.


I may try to get an aluminum radiator  that does not have a fill neck/cap

So many ready made units available that having an extra cap will not be anything more than a DON'T OPEN HERE.....Put a higher pressure cap on the lower one and a 15 psi up top.......


Always a bag of worms to deal with.

But the plan is coming together.

Been shopping for a floor mount shifter.

Decided after more measuring and figuring to go with the Winters Sidewinder cable shifter.

The Lokar looked simple and easy....Big issue is the height of the shifter from the tranny case. and at that distance the throw of the lever is A MILE LONG

The Sidewinder simply bolts to the floor and the 5 foot cable snakes down and around and sneaks up from the rear...

Lots of room...


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Weather is changing a bit, but it was a good day to work on the cat.....

Checking out the front area where the radiator is going to sit.....and a quick trip to look at the fan shroud off the S10 was in order.

The fan shroud fits between the sides of the 2100 body tub with a bit of room to spare.....

Can't seem to find a 16" or 16.5 fan with a clutch unit that will fit the Small block Chevy as yet....but the night is young 

The 305 I have is a V belt drive....all the newer engines use the serp drive set ups....


With the fan shroud and the radiator thing sort of hashed out, the realization that there was no room out front for the battery as I had thought came full view.

Well now....with the cab elevation where it is the battery can sit right under the heater box on the passenger side of the rig.

We have had a brand new LH battery tray from a square body Suburban hanging on a nail in the shop for years.....not there any longer... 

Grabbed that bad boy...did some measuring and then some cutting.

Trimmed off part of the support on the one side....made some spacers, cut out the bolt that was welded into the pan part and that tray sits on the shelf in the tub really sweet.

One spacer under the tray, use the original inner bolt flange and then a spacer to allow a bolt to come through the tub wall and anchor the inside edge.

Nice and secure....Factory battery wedge and bolt......

A nice full size battery fits in and snugs right down.....


Another issue outta the way....

I think some stainless bolts on the tray will be fine as well.....

The battery clears the RH cab mount by a bit....so no worries.

I am scouring the shelves for everything that can be used to fill the need.

Always things left from other projects.


After getting the battery tray fit and checked out I noticed that there is a nice area between the cab mount beams (Currently 4x4 wood but will be 3-1/2" box tube) this area is perfect for two air tanks to fasten down....

The tanks can mount such that the connections will be easy to access....and we can have a water drain on each one....


Will have to see just how much room we have in there......I want to have access to the tranny shift cable and such without the need to rip stuff all apart to get in there.......

Field service ya know..


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Pretty slack day today.

BUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT....The last two bearings for the OC12 DROP BOXES showed up in the mail box today.

Boxes looked pretty dog eared and literally falling apart.

Date on the boxes said July 2 1988

Wow......
The bearings are in fine shape, still wrapped up in the factory plastic seal bag...

Now the diffy can get closer to being done......

Still need the axle bearings..."5210" 

I want to try and get as much as possible done on the chassis before the fall rains get here......


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Getting some "ON paper engineering" done on the hood design today while we wait for a fella coming to pick up the left overs from the S10

Frame and such.


I think the design on the hood is pretty well worked out now.....The design allows the hood to slide forward about 10" and then tip up from the back.

The assembly will be located at the rear by two urethane cones that will center the hood up/down and Right/left

Two rubber stretchy hold downs slightly forward of center will retain the hood.

The pivot at the front will have a slot to allow the assembly to slide fore/aft and an open spot in the pivot bracket that will allow the hood to be removed easily without tools.

Being able to get the hood off and out of the way easily will be a real plus for changing a belt or other maintenance items....

Not going to win any awards for aesthetics as the pivot needs to be on the outside of the tub due to the radiator shroud, radiator and grille.....

But maybe things can be smoothed up to help a bit in the looks department.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

The day came to a close on a great note.

The S10 "WLT" went down the road about 20 minutes ago behind an 82 Chevy diesel pickup....heading home for a new adventure.....

More bone picking me thinks.

Fella wanted the 5 speed gear box.

Another chapter of history closes.....

So on we go..

Go cat go....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

With all the Drop box bearings here now I need to get the bearings on the drop gears and close that box up.

Got things cleaned up outside this morning and after breakfast the diffy gonna come out of it's hiding place and I am going to get that stuff done.

Still need new plugs for the drop boxes and some plugs for the forward lower ports on the main case (Cooler ports)

Not going to connect a cooler until after the maiden voyage is done and some other stuff is spiffed up a bit.

Seems that the 2100's without a blade and groomer did not come with coolers from Thiokol.

I think a cooler would be a great idea, but for now it's going to need to wait.

Getting a cooler pump on the diffy will take some thought as well as materials.
A belt driven hydraulic pump off the engine would likely be the easiest plan.
There are electric cooler pumps available, but I really want to limit the draw on the electrical system.
Still stewing on what to do for the air compressor/s
Engine driven pump would be sweet.....
The VIAIR 100% duty cycle electrics may be worth trying.....The engine mounted auxiliary pumps used for TIRE SERVICE rigs are pretty beefy....but $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Many Jeepers use a York AC pump as they have their own oil sump and can be used as a stand alone air pump.

Plenty of room down front on the drivers side to mount a York.

Fasten the pump to the chassis and Vbelt drive it with a modified Serp belt tensioner to allow the engine to wiggle a bit....

Right now I want to get that gear box completed and filled up with oil before winter rains and such set in......

I had hoped to get the diffy back into the chassis this season.....We shall see...

With zero possibility of operating this year I really don't want the box just laying out in the weather......

Far better sitting in the corner of the shop.....

The biggest plan after the diffy is to get the cab mount beams finished before the cab comes back off for other work that's still needed down in the tub....

A bit here and a bit there......

Been since early July on the last two bearings for the drop boxes....but the price was so good I could not pass them up.

The shipped out of Macedonia ......Should have looked at ebay sale closer...

Oh well......


The 6014 bearings that just showed up were marked July 1988
The boxes look it too.

Falling apart and one nearly in shreds.....Plastic bag with the bearing is sealed....no worries.

The entire batch of bearings for this rebuild has been all NEW OLD STOCK....

Maybe should call it OLD...OLD STOCK.

Never used at any rate, and in new condition.....

I will snap a few pics of the drop box gears and such going back in.....


----------



## loggah

Years ago i made up a differential cooler assemblys on  1200 sprytes buy putting a v belt pulley on the driveshaft, and mounting a coolent"oil pump" inside the tub directing the oil flow through a remote cooler. Needless to say it only worked when the machine was moving,but thats the only time it was needed. These machines had blades and hauled powder makers ,or mogul planers. I really doubt you will need any cooler not having any attachments hooked  to the machine.


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## Snowy Rivers

I tend to agree on the cooler.

Thiokol did not put them on standard unless the machine had a blade and tools on the back....the Gasoline 300 6 cyl cats did not come with them either....

One of our members that lives close to me has a 2100 and it does not have a cooler.

We shall see how this thing works....then decide.....


Now....for today's progress.

Grabbed the box of bearings and went after getting the drop box gears in and the covers back on.


A NOTE.....THE TOP GEAR WITH ONLY THE INNER BEARING GOES IN FIRST....

Then the big bull gear with both bearings....and the long hub on the gears faces the case cover.

When this came apart some months back it was a mess and the bearings were in pieces.....


The new bearings (In piccy) many different brands with boxes that looked like a war zone......
Some of the bearings I got were either double shielded or double sealed.....just popped them out and into the trash.
All open bearings needed....

Bearings tapped onto the gears quite easily using a dead blow and a medium sized driver......


Stuck the gaskets to the case with some grease in spots around the periphery of the case.

Greased the cover bearing bores and GENTLY tapped the cover onto the bearings that were on the gears.

One of the service books I read some time ago mentioned jack bolt holes..?????

My gear box must be old as there is not any jack screw holes to remove the covers.....

Just a bit of wiggle and a putty knife got them off...


The covers went on extremely easy with zero issues.....

Installed the bolts and we are good to go.


Everything turns very smooth.....Far better than the first time I tried to move this beast. (When it came home) ....TOOK A BIG BAR ON THE AXLE AND A 4 FOOT PIPE WITH SERIOUS OOOOOOOMPH TO GET IT TO MOVE....

Amazing what clean gears and new bearings can do.....



I measured the register flange on the axle tubes and they fit into the lower bearing bore and just contact the bearing....With the gasket in place things will have a tiny bit of clearance (End play)


Looking good.

Got a call a bit ago...MAY have an S10 extended cab to bolt on the rear of the cat.

A stripped cab with doors and a few things...

This will certainly keep symmetry in this FrankenCat

Still not sure if the cabs need to go back to back....

Both have sliding back windows.....back to back with the rear suicide doors will look cool....

Guy is supposed to send me more pics of the cab tonight....

I hope it was a NON AC truck....I don't need another AC box to deal with..


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Well now

We went and took a peek at the Blue S10 EXT CAB this morning.

Not gonna drag it home.
Way too much stuff stripped off and gone to really entice me to fool with it.

Windshield hacked out, side EXT cab windows hacked out, rear slider hacked out..Door seals gone.....Way too much stuff to have to go buy.

The interior is stripped clean as well......

And the biggy.....waaaaaaaaaaay too long to fit without extending the frame out quite a bit.

Gonna snoop more to find a second cab for the back end....


Found a complete Isuzu Hombre cheap....  Bad engine but chassis decent.

We shall see..

No hurry.

Fiddling around with some snively stuff at the moment.

Nothing really exciting......

Cab mounts on order....


A lazy weekend.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Bored to tears.....

GOOD DEAL.....
The last two seals for the band actuator rods were at my post box....

Installed the LH band actuator rod and wrapped that chapter up.

Stopped off at the hardware store and picked up a couple 1 inch pipe plugs and got those tightened into the lower front ports (Cooler ports)

Sort of nervous about having anything open that crap can get into...


Still need the pinion seal.....Prices vary a lot for that particular seal.

Still shopping.....Found a couple on ebay for $6 each.....probably should get them both and stick the extra in the spares box.....


Was not a real productive day.

Designed a solid plate wheel center for building new wheels for the machine.

Dropped the print off at the WATER BLAST CUTTER to get a quote.

If the cost comes in good I may order some 12" wheel blanks from Hey Wheel and try building some new wheels.

So far the other options are pretty slim.....

The tariff on the alloy wheels is just way out of my budget.

The two fronts are the spoke'd alloys with foam filling....all the rest are steel with tubes.

Seems that flat tires from the tire guides wiping off the valve stems must have been common....

Once the tire goes flat the guides beat the hell out of the rims.....several of mine are beat up badly.

Another day comes to a close


----------



## Snowy Rivers

The Cab mount urethane biscuits will be here in a few days.

Local auto parts stores wanted $120 for the set....Nooooooooooooooo  $58 off ebay for the same parts (Brand and part number) 

I can wait a few days for the savings.

The steel tube (3-1/2" square x 1/8" wall) will be in at the steel yard today.

Have them this afternoon.  (Cab mount beams)

I machined up a pair of round tubes to act as receptacles for the urethane biscuits....

Need to fabricate the complete brackets for each mount.

Got the material all ready for the front mounts....no pix yet....

Really anxious to get the cab mounts finished and the top rail of the cat tub drilled for the bolts.

Then the cab can come back off........

After this work the cab will go back on easily and line up exactly....

Still need to yank the engine back out to complete welding the engine and trans mounts.  (Tacked them really well earlier when I located the power pack)

Still need to get the diffy back in and finish the drive shaft.

The rear portion will remain stock....I need to shorten the front section a bit and weld the slip yoke back on.

Also need to finish the center support bearing X member.

Gawd.....so much work.....sure is fun though....

I wanted to do the dive shaft back earlier this summer, but the pinion flange had to be changed to the new piece I machined that mates to the CV shaft.

Then came the nasty mess in the diffy and the condition of the diffy was then an unknown quantity......
As it turned out it is OK

One step at a time.....

Maybe this thing will start coming together.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Slow day.

Got a call from the steel yard about an hour ago....the steel tube for the cab mount beams was there.

Tooled into town and picked them up.


Not much else happening...and its HOT OUTSIDE...

Ordered the pinion seal....be here about the 10th.

The urethane mounts be here about the same time.

Hurry up and wait......

The tube steel has been a hangup ....3-1/2 square is not a normal size for the local guys to stock.....the owner was in the other day and he ordered in a stick./

I got two 62" pieces.....I think somebody else wanted the rest....that works.

IF/WHEN another cab comes home I will worry about two more chunks.

The rear cab mountings will be a bit different though......
We shall see....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Got some much needed work done today.

Fab'd up the two front cab mounts.......

I had some big azz heavy washers that were just the right size to support the urethane biscuits.

Welded the washers onto some schedule 80 pipe.
Added some angle pieces and some braces.

Good and stout..

I can't bore the hole for the biscuit pilot until I get the new parts.

I have a set of biscuits from a Square body Suburban....I can't be sure the pilot is the same size.

Take only a couple minutes per unit to bore them to size.

Assemble them and then get the square tube set correctly and then weld them in place.

Add a angle under the tube and bolt it to the Cat tub.....


The stand off for the biscuits in the rear of the cab will be different.

Same schedule 80 pipe.....Longer as the rear mounts are higher off the frame due to the floor of the cab raising up.

The plan is to use the schedule 80 pipe and mill a big slot in it to get the biscuits inside and to tighten the bolts....then weld the pipe to the square tube


----------



## Snowy Rivers

With this wretched weather (TOO HOT) 

I got out and onto things at the BUTTCRACK A DAWN this morning.

The old stubs from the original roll bar were in the way.

Out with the SAWZALL 

Very short job to hack those bad boys off at a very low level....Still need a bit of grinding to make them sort of even   ....No big deal...just useless baggage now....


Cleaned up the new tubing, deburring the ends and washing off the pickling goop they spray on the stuff.

Jacked up the cab slightly to get the wood 4x4 out.

Slid the steel tubes in and added a 1/2" spacer to allow the front biscuit mounts to have a bit of clearance above the tube after the biscuits are all in.

Tubes adjusted for location (Final and exact position will be done just before welding the mounts to the tube.

The tube/beams extend far enough out from the cab to allow step/steps to be added as things progress..

At present....getting up into the cab is a bit of a stretch.....


The design seems to be working fine.   The rear mounts will sit right on top of the tube/beam.... Slotted schedule 80 pipe with the big washer welded to the top will be the basis.

Facing the open slot of the tube rearward will allow easy access to the biscuits/bolts and such.

Gotta wait for the new biscuits to be able to stack things together and get the correct measurements to cut and machine the parts...


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Lazy hot day today.

The pinion seal showed up today....

Sweet....
Now I can finish up getting the diffy box together.

Just the axles is all that's left now.

Get the bearing retainers machined  and the new bearings on the axles.....be good to go.


Still waiting on the cab biscuit.....


----------



## vintagebike

*Another thought*

Now if the latest body configuration isn't just quite right... maybe this from 'The Three Stooges in Orbit' , 1962


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## Snowy Rivers

Now that is an interesting rig

I seem to remember that from long ago.

Always watched the stooges.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Not much done today.

Yesterday we had a very very rare September "Arctic" front slip in to our East and we ended up with 60 mph winds steady with 80 mph gusts last night.

Raised hell.

Hot at 80 F at dark with all this wind and 15% humidity.

3 fires close by and all were stomped out before they did much damage.

Helluva mess out in the yard to clean up.....

The Cab biscuits and the air brake valve showed up today...


Weather is still sketchy with 20-30 mph winds for another day.

Power was out last night at 11 and back on about an hour ago...

Getting horses watered  and chores done.

Spent nearly all night on fire watch and little sleep.

No more fires, but we are not outta the woods yet.

One spark and we could have an inferno on our hands......


Be safe my friends.


----------



## PJL

Major fire going on a few miles from my home. Last night I watched a UH-60 dumping water on it.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

We have a fire about 3-4 miles away....downwind thankfully.

The sky has been about like a 5 pm dusk in late December around here.

A dull redish brown cast to everything.

Wind is about neutral now......this will really help the fire guys.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

The cab mount biscuits showed up...

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

Bored out the pilot holes....Biscuits now fit.
As  soon as the fire hazard abates things can be welded together.



And now....

The Air control valve to allow the brake pedal to run both bands came.

BUILDING PARTS THAT WERE NEVER MEANT TO FIT TOGETHER AND NEVER DESIGNED TO DO WHAT THEY ARE NOW GOING TO DO.

Took the old master cylinder from the S10 and cut the flange off the end.

Tossed it in the lathe and trued up the end.

Grabbed a chunk of 2-1/2" aluminum bar and whittled it down to form the adapter section to mate the air valve bracket to the master cylinder flange.

Had to machine off the foot pedal bosses to get a suitable flange so everything will mate up.

Some drilling and tapping yet to get the adapter to connect to the master cylinder flange and the foot pedal base.

The E3 valve bolts to the pedal base.

Pictures show the morphology.

Coming together.


----------



## Bobcatbob

“ Took the old master cylinder from the S10 and cut the flange off the end.

Tossed it in the lathe and trued up the end.”

Fabrication at its best!!  Keep the pics coming!  Stay safe out there.

Bob


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Yeah buddy.

Got busy this evening and finished the mount.

Only need to check to actuator rod length and possibly lengthen (New little rod) or shorten a touch so the pedal is at rest and the valve actuator has a bit of clearance.

Rod is the one that came in the S10 power booster.

Gawd I love it when a plan comes together  

Just need to take it back apart and wash it all up.....Loctite the 4 screws ( Hidden under where the valve fits against the plate) and the 2 countersunk screws on the old mast cylinder flange as seen in the pics.


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## Snowy Rivers

Extremely smokey outside today....cut it with a knife.

I did get out and do a trial fit of the new valve assembly 

I just need to make a new actuator rod.

The stock one is waaaaaaaaaaaaay too short...1-5/8" too short


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Hi all.

Way too smokey outside to do any recreational work.
I tried yesterday and it was just uncomfortable to breathe out there.

I gave the new air valve unit a quicky trial fit on the booster 

I just need to cut and machine the longer actuator rod to go into the booster unit and that bad boy will be ready for prime time.....

The smoke is clearing some....but still pretty unhealthy to be out in it.

By Sunday I expect a big improvement.....

We are getting marine air filtering into the area now and the wind has switched to the s/sw and is thinning out the heavy smoke.....

Rain looking possible by Mon-Wed.....

Be safe troops.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

WEll ...it's Sunday morning at 7 am and the smoke is still nasty.

Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut......we had a heavy dew last night.....this will help take the edge off the extreme fire danger...

Actually fired up the small pellet stove a bit ago.

House was 63 F this morning.../and the cat was complaining.

With the heavy dew it's safe enough to run a pellet stove.....

Almost zero chance of anything HOT getting out the pipe......

AS far as the cat goes.....not much happening....Still waaaaaaaaaay too dry to use the welder out there on the project....Rain coming though....

I am getting bored sitting around with so much work left to do before the fall weather closes in for the long dark wet season.....

Later troops


----------



## KickerM

Well head on over to MN, zero fire danger here and with your skill set we could have my cat ready to go in a week!  Cattle working and Farming going full throttle here no time to even look at the skidozer...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Snowy Rivers

Thanks for the offer.

Just too old and pretty well settled to want to go far any more.

I hate driving farther than town (5 miles):th_lmao:


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## Snowy Rivers

Sun was actually visible through the murk today....and the air was not as caustic as it has been.

Got after some work on the cat....

Got the cab mounts bolted on and the alignment within 1/16" for the cross beam.

Drilled the angle bracket that will end up bolting the beams to the cat tub.

Fooled around with the actuator rod on the foot brake valve......

Made the new rod.....got the length cut right and the inner sleeve in the boosted modified so the pedal travels far enough to activate the brake light switch and the air valve.

Still way too dry to weld anything outdoors......

But at least something got done.

Rain maybe by tomorrow night.

A bit of dampness and I want to get the mounts welded to the beams.

Then get them back out....finish weld and then get a coat of black paint on them before they rust up.......


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Weather still sucks

Smokey as all get out.....but I decided to go downstairs to the machine shop and start machining on the rear cab mounts.

A lot different than the front ones due mostly to the height the mount needs to be off the cross beam. (Rear of cab floor has a step up)


Discovered I do not have enough large tube to make both rear mounts..

OFF THE THE STEEL YARD after breakfast 

I will get some pics in a while.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Got a couple pix

Still need to get a few things.

Another piece of tube to make the other mount.

Longer bolts to fit the custom mounts

Factory bolts were fine up front.....but not back here.

Ah well.

Metric bolts are easy to come by here in town.

Almost but not quite long enough.....

Need about 1/2" to 3/4" longer    ahhhhhh  12 to 19 mm


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Well now...
Steel yard was closed due to excessive smoke

Turns out that the bolts that secure the cab mounts into the cab are a tad short for the rear assemblies when using the new urethane biscuits....

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH

Had to call up the local industrial bolt supplier over town.

12mm x 1.75 x 100 mm long grade 10.9

In stock and in will call.  

Will run over in the morning and pick them bad boys up.

Never fails.....Gotta love this Franken build..... I was quite pleased that the original bolts were in good shape.... oh well.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Steel yard is still short staffed on account of the smoke from all the fires.

I got the longer bolts for the rear cab mounts...

Also found some 12mm x 1.75 mm x 100 mm FLANGE HEADED BOLTS like the factory cab mount bolts.  

About a week out though....but ordered.

With any luck I can get the other piece of tube in the morning and then mill out the big azz hole in the side.

Pretty much still in a holding pattern due to the super dry weather.

The rain did not get this far.....

Out there this morning fiddling around and strung a tape across the guide wheels and made a mark on the dirt where the outer edge of the track falls.

OMG......THIS BEAST WILL BE HUGE.....

Actually I was sketching up a plan for a tubular bar up and over the cat to mount side view mirrors on and the overhead light bar/ LED light bar......

LOTSA LIGHT......

Trying to get the plan knocked out so I don't end up with stuff in the way later on..

I don't plan on any lights down low on the grille/hood area.

Just get knocked off.

The anteater hood will slide forward about 6 inches and then tilt up.....

An easy to  remove if need be with minimal tools sort of assembly......

This will allow access to the complete engine back to and actually past the distributor some.

So.....
After basically running out of materials to work with I decided to clean up the machine shop.

Mills and lathes can make a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge mess if you are doing much.

After mucking with the broom and scoop came the shop vac....

Damned small chips fly all over.

Serviced the mill....filled the lubricator and pumped the oiler a few times.

Vactra oil is whats used on the screws and ways and I ordered a jug of it a while ago.

Got it yesterday and decided to take care of the machine.

The 9 X 42 MAX mill is a great machine (A Taiwan knockoff of a Bridgeport)
I grabbed it off ebay one night on a BUY IT NOW $500

Guy was going through an ugly divorce.....

After buying it I thought to look and see where it was... Los Angeles Ca

Two day trip down and back.

Was worth it though.

Most used mills have the ways all worn out.
This one had been used to make parts for Soap box derby cars.

Good shape and tight.......

Make good cat parts 

Anyway

As soon as I can..... the welding will get done...

I do not want to burn things down....

Anyway....maybe tomorrow will yield good things.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Had a good heavy mist this morning....Decided to weld the front mounts in.

Still need to get them out and finish the welds....but we are getting closer.

Got the piece of tube for the second rear mount this morning and milled the side out of it.

Ready to weld the top plate on that holds the urethane biscuit....

Almost ready to finish the rear mount beam.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

WE GOT THE MUCH NEEDED RAIN...

T boomers all night and a good bit of rain.


Today may be sketchy as far as cat work goes..... Will depend on how wet it gets.

Got a plan coming together now on a set of steps to get up into the cab.

The two square tubes supporting the cab are the perfect place to hang the steps.

I can get a five foot long step on each side of the cab and have then about midway between the top of the track and the rockers on the cab.

The step material I have was leftover from  another project and its a perfect material.

Safety grate   9" wide and about 2" thick perforated grate.

A slip in bracket that can be easily removed from the cab support beams will suffice....

The S10 cab sits a bit higher than the original 2100 cab and crawling in and out would be tough....especially for this old fart......


With the cab mounts coming together nicely....getting the steps built now seems like a great plan since the cab is located.

Once all this stuff is finish welded I can get some paint on it......lest thee pieces will turn ORANGE    RUST...


I will try to get a few pix of the step tread material in a while after we get some daylight.....


----------



## Jim_S RIP

> WE GOT THE MUCH NEEDED RAIN...


----------



## Snowy Rivers

OH YESSSSSSSS

Been very dry here.

The wind storm on the 7th just dried things out terribly.

Last night the forecasters were whining about possible flooding now....especially in the areas that burned.....

Can't win.

But here we have been seeing low intensity boomers and moderate rain/showers.

Today will likely see more of the same on/off showers and maybe afternoon boomers.

Gonna wash out this damned smoke.

The last week or so has been nasty outside....a hour outside would give ya a good hacking cough and ya smelled like a campfire......

Strange weather for us.....

Dry summer...yessss.....80 MPH North winds NEVER.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Was wet this morning...but then cleared up a bit.

Yessssssssssssssssssss

Grabbed the tools and went after getting the rear cab mounts finished and welded to the beam  (At least partially until I can get the beams out and get at them well)

Brackets welded to the beam too where it fastens to the tub.

Just about to start another little project and I hear a rumble of thunder....then it got with the program.....


Grabbed the tools and tossed them in the shop.

I'M DONE..


----------



## BearGap

Good pictures of how you made the longer tube isolator. I was wondering how you made it.  Very nice work!!


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Thank you Bear

I was not really happy about that plan.

I wanted to use the factory brackets off the S10 FRAME.....BUT that would have left the frame a bit trashed for the guy who bought it.

I ended up getting my cab for free plus I still have the box too. 

Ah well

Plan B 

The 4" tube worked OK

The front mount are cantilevered off the beam, so I am going to add a front brace to stop the Torque action.

I want the ability to be able to get the cab off easily so the engine and tranny can be removed for repairs or ??????

So far the plan is going well "I Think"  

Been thrashing about on how to proceed....Think I will get the major work done and get the cat operational....then pull it down to get the paint and such spiffy.


See how it goes.


----------



## BearGap

Looks like something a millwright would dream up. Clean and simple,
I worked for a millwright in an old big log mill for 2 years. He was a man of few words. I got my hand stuck in a chipper infeed chute and had to just about dislocate my shoulder to shut if off. My hand was really not hurt badly, just looked like it got run over by a dozer. He walked up and said, looks broke, and walked off. That’s the only thing he said to me in 2 years.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

I worked in the mill machinery building biz for 20 years.

Ended my career in that field after I messed up my back racing boats....

My last position was as a field service engineer.  (Fancy term for a McGyver)

Simple, work well and last a long time......


Went after a little add on to the front mounts a bit ago.

They all need to be final welded now....but far easier out on the table.....

A straddle support was definitely a good idea considering the cantilevered setup on the front mounts.

Next on the hit list is the two steps that will mount to the cab beams.

I want them done before the cab comes back off.....

The cab will likely be off for the winter.

Still need to yank the engine and weld the engine mounts as they are just tacked.....

Ahh yesssss....plugging along.....

The RH saddle mount uses the same bolt as the battery tray corner.....Why not....it was right in the way....Drill a hole and call it good.

I inserted a thin piece of cardboard between the brackets and the side of rthe tub to allow a tiny bit of room to be able to get things apart....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Weather is great and things went together perfectly.

Got the cab back up on the timbers and the mounting beams out of the cat.

The front one was a sweeet treat...came right out and up over the distributor and carburetor without any issues  (As it should be able to do)

Got all the welding done and things cleaned up...wiped off with prep solution and painted a black satin color.

Let the paint dry good in the sun and carefully stuffed these bad boys back in.

Realigning the cab took a few minutes to get the mount bolts spot on (They have about 1/2" slop in the heavy captured nut in the body pocket)

All the bolt holes in the beams line up perfect with the holes in the tub..... (They were drilled on location)

All snugged down now so I can build the steps and get those finished up......

Then the cab comes off for the winter.

Will sit it back on the big Azz tire I had it on while I reworked the column.

Still need to do more work on the column.....Replace the signal switch and the wiper switch in the column head.......

Also want to paint the new column head adapter before that rusts up this winter.

I should be able to  get the wiring taken care of as well..

All the ignition switch wiring, signal switch and wiper switch wiring needs to be connected up by single wire plugs instead of the large gang plugs.


Moving ahead......

Pics from today


----------



## Snowy Rivers

A bit of a side track for the next couple days

WE finally got some rain and can use the torch and welder without setting our little world on fire.

The bucket on the skid steer HAS TO GET REPAIRED

Yesterday I started cutting the floor of the bucket out....today the son in law is gonna take over....

The plan is to get the demolition done and the new parts fit and tacked in place.

We have a pretty good early fall storm heading towards us and tomorrow will be WET

The Bucket on the skid steer was just used up...

I need that machine to lift the cab back off the cat....and the barn uses the machine daily to haul horse poop out.

Gotta gitterdone.......


I am pretty close to the point that I will need to lift the cab back off the cat.....

So gotta play fabricator on a dirty old bucket......  LITERALLY


----------



## BearGap

You’ll need to come up with a cool factory ID plate for Unit 001.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

CLOUD MT CO.
                   Newberg, Oregon

Model--- Frankencat 2110SX  Serial No. 000000001
Curb weight 7000 #    Max Payload  2000
Gross Weight 9000#
Build date________
Contract number 000001A 
Sold to     The Dreamer

Powered by   GM 305
Transmission GM TH350
Differential    OC12


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Well it's not a snow cat....but without this tool life will get real tough

We got the skid steer bucket nearly ready to put in the new steel floor, ends and an added thickness to the back wall.

Original was 10 gauge floor, 3/16 ends.

Decided to go 3/16" thick on the floor as well as the ends and then went with an added 3/16" piece partially up the back wall.....


24 years of very salty poop and urine from the horse stalls took their toll.

But the frame and the rear portion are still great shape.

A tad bit of cleanup where the old ends came off still to do.....and the cutting bar had been bent up a bit on the ends during some hard usage over the years.

Pics of the new steel pieces all cut and ready to weld in.

I will be happy to have my fav tool back on line to do my heavy lifting.

Cab, OC12, ENGINE/TRANNY....
We got some rain and slop for a few days....then a week or so of decent fall weather..

Won't take long to stitch this bad boy back together.......

The RH end was damaged when we bought the rig new in 1996....some clown backed a semi into the end and tweaked it.

We got a screaming deal on the bucket... It is a 1 cubic yard light material unit....The standard buckets are too small for our needs.

But 24 years of absolute abuse.....damned good return on the investment.

Second set of tires, third battery, a few air filters, two engine shutoff solenoids, second starter... (Kubota 4 cyl diesel)

Still has the factory fan belt......

Oh...Second seat.....


The original exhaust manifold broke and we replaced it back in early 2000's

Broke again a year or so ago.

I fabricated and machined a new one from box steel tube.... Been hanging in just fine..
The cast iron manifolds on these are crap.....
The bolt ears crack and the manifold falls off 

Very little has been needed to keep this sucker kicking ass and taking names.......


----------



## Snowy Rivers

No cat stuff right now.

Worked on the skid steer bucket yesterday for a couple hours....

All ready to stuff the new steel in and stitch it up.

Another pretty decent rain storm coming in today....

Not much gonna get done today on anything...

May start designing the Tranny cooler hose feed and a manifold block.

Get it on paper and scare up the parts.

Planning to use the Reusable type hydraulic hose that can be made on location......

Run from the trans cooler fittings and up to a manifold block.....Then we can just jumper the lines temporarily to allow the engine to be run and things tested without the cooler.

The radiator/fan/shroud arrangement is still in flux.

I had thought about a pair of electric fans either pushers or pullers, but a plain old steel fan blade with a viscous clutch could be a lot less expensive to put together.....

The S10 shroud is a nice unit and fits nice in the front of the cat.   Split type with the top half easily removable.

The electrics would be fine.....but they require a fair amount of juice to run....

The only snag so far is the S10 used a serp drive set up (Reverse fan direction from the older 305)  

Getting a standard fan blade in the diameter needed has eluded me so far....

need a 16" fan and that size seems to be an odd duck.

I may go with a serp drive off of a later Chevy 4.3 V6 to solve the issue  and then just use a factory fan.......Still thinking about it...

And so it goes......

More news as it happens.....


----------



## JimVT

my brother had a few bob cats over a few years.  one was oil cooled and one when stalling on a steep push rolled backwards and started running in reverse. bobcat didn't believe him until several others did the same. he drove it into a cannel and flipped over and swam out. that was the oil cooled one.   they are a useful machine.
he was better off just letting his hired hand do the bobcat work.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Our Skid Steer is actually a Scat trak (Made by Trak international)

Absolutely a wonderful machine.

Engine and swash pumps are longitudinal in the machine.

Very easy to work on.

Battery is right under your feet.....Lift the foot rest cover and its right there.

The layout also makes the machine less prone to going over backwards on a steep grade if you don't have any weight in the bucket.

Kubota 4 cyl powered 

Been a sweet ride since 1996 when we bought it...

Just 2700 hours of tough usage around here.


Came home one night and found it laying on it's side in the poop pile.....

Never did get any of the boarders to fess up to how that happened.

No damage... just had a helluva time getting hold of it to get it back on it's feet.
Rain going sideways, half snow and just nasty...and dark too...
After that fiasco I  welded some D RINGS on each end to hook onto with the truck...

Hooked onto the cage with the big Western Star and a strap.... Zooooop....got it upright at least.....


The poop and sloppy mess had gotten into the cab and was just nasty....


Arrrrrrrgh

I was soooooo pissed I could have spit nails......took about an hour total to get the thing back to the barn and the cab hosed out.....

I ran it into the arena and hosed the thing out where it left the mess for all to see....

Posted a THANX on the bulletin board ......

To this day (Over 20 years ago) I still do not know who the clown was the did that stunt.


Ahhhh well

Soon the old girl will have a new bucket.....Well.. sort of


----------



## Snowtrac Nome

I worked on a scat trac once I did like the machine until I had to put a starter in it I used a lot of bad language. you have to access it through the right plate in the belly pan and there aint much room for a fat bellied stogie sucker to get under them


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Must have been a different year or model

Our 1300C is a breeze...Just remove the RH sheet metal cover that goes between the cage and the belly.....reach in and gitterdone.

If you can catch the failing starter before it dies completely it even easier.

Lift the boom all the way and lock it....Tilt the cage forward and you can walk up to the side of the machine and get at everything.......


The designers were some savvy folks......they made stuff you could work on.....


Plus....most parts were not bastard stuff that you had to go to a dealer for.

Things like seals, bearings and even the control cables were all easy to get locally.

I really can't say one bad thing about this machine.....even after 24 years....


Pumps are direct drive off the engine through a U JOINT coupling.....

NOT A STINKING SERP BELT LIKE BOBCAT

The Scat was bought up by Volvo.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Weather cooperated really well

Son in law came up and we thrashed on the skid steer bucket.

Really got after that bad boy.

Son in law brought over a trailer hitch unit (Receiver unit) to weld/bolt onto the Rig I made to lift the engine/tranny and the cab for the cat.

Going to modify the lift rig and  set it up so we can move the big goose neck trailers and then swap in a different slide in that has a heavy loop on the end that can lift the cat parts......


Skid steer is really like a Swiss army knife of machine tools.


Did some measuring this morning.....I decided that the best choice is to do a custom set of tracks.

Cannibalize the 2100 track I have and then scare up pieces or ????? to end up with the needed tire guides.

Custom cleats.....New belting

The 30 foot long Big Tex trailer deck (102" wide) will make a perfect place to layout and assemble the new tracks.

Flat and plenty long enough......


Pix of the bucket rebuild...

Pretty well done....just have the bottom to finish is all.
A bit of skip welds on the frame to floor pan and the bottom seams of the bucket ends

We had to tweak the hell outta the frame as it had been bent a bit over the years..

Hydraulic jack and some serious oooooomph to gitterdone....Then weld things up.....

Took it on a road test to do a garbage run. 

Be nice to have this job finished..... 

Then back to building on the FrankenCat......

Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuttt...The barn customers are not really happy that the Skid steer is down for a few days...


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Corporal Scat reporting for Duty 

Now that the bucket is all fixed.....time to get back to working on the Cat.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Decided to add a heavy bar to the top edge of each end of the bucket on the skid steer.

Easy go

Tossed some paint on the ends to keep the PATINA from showing up so quick...:th_lmao:

Very happy that this pig is done.....


Made a major decision on the tracks for the FrankenCat

I have found ZIP NADA in the way of a 2100 track ....

Going to build a complete set of new tracks from the ground up.

I have the one track I got with the machine to cannibalize for parts.

The tire guides are all there and usable...

The 4 belt laces can be reworked to use with (2) 12" wide belts on each track.

Got the 3 ply belting lined up fairly close by at a reasonable price.

Decided to fabricate my own grousers.

Seems that thiokol has used a lot of different materials over the years from Steel angle to steel tubing to formed steel channel and extruded aluminum.

Tucker used/uses a steel angle fabrication on their tracks.

Decided to go with 1-1/2" X 1-1/2" X 3/16" angle 3 feet long
About 5 pounds per grouser.

Bolt in the original tire guides and add a center section to the grouser to keep the tire guide stable ( Similar to the grousers on the 2100 track)  Will look at a few options.

(2) 12" belts with the 12" center span like factory   = 36" tracks

These will be bastards all the way.....no symmetry to factory anything other than the stock tire guides will bolt in....

Round over the outer corners of the angle upright to help the machine turn on non snow surfaces......

The 8" stock lacers can be modified to end up with enough pieces to buckle the four 12" belts

12" belts will help stabilize the angle grousers too..

The numbers say that the grousers for 1 track will weigh about 500 lbs 
3 foot angle plus the added center support that will weld on.

I am thinking that a completed weight of 750 lbs each on the tracks is reasonable guess at this point.

We shall see.

I found one parts track for sale (Stock 57") but the sucker is 600 miles away  ONE WAY

The belts are junk and the grousers are pretty beat.

Basically just buying tire guides......

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO....

Going to make a jig set up to assemble the tracks on the deck of the Big Tex trailer....  (It's flat and plenty long.....we need 287" we have 360" deck)


Gawd this is gonna be a JOB.....May have to have a track building work party   PIZZA AND BEER....:th_lmao:


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Warning....The contents may not be suitable for all audiences     :th_lmao:

WE are back to cat'n it.

We have some lovely weather on hand

I decided to grab the track and get this bad boy up to the shop area and get the tire guides off and to save one belt.

I contacted 3 different people about the length of the belts on a 2100 with 72 grousers.....

I got 3 different answers..... ????????????????????

Decided to pull one belt off..let it flatten out on the trailer deck and get a REAL TIME MEASUREMENT ON THAT BAD BOY.....

Got the impact wrench and tools in hand.


NO WAY IN HELL WERE THESE 7/16 BOLTS COMING LOOSE....

Almost 50 years and the bolts were just not gonna move.

Grabbed the hot wrench and installed a "Flushing tip" and started blowing the bolt heads off   Just about like that.....

Kept the hose running on the area to keep belt burning to a minimum.

Still a stinky job.


Did get the cat on the tracks though.....well sort of.

Boots came to see wasssssup....


Decided to use the Sawzall and cut the other 3 belts to get the grousers off and into the mill to remove the two bolts that hold the tire guide onto the grouser.

Ended up making a drill jig by pressing a little aluminum slug into an impact socket and drilling a 3/16 hole in it in the lathe.

Stick the socket on the bolt head and drill the pilot hole.

Swap in the 7/16 drill bit and remove the bolt head.

Quick, easy and zero damage to the grouser or the tire guide.....

These are 43" RH AND LH grousers 

I need a set of tire guides for the second track.

The grousers are the J style and in pretty good shape....


Here are the gruesome photos......

Just ugly.....

Good finding.

The lacer's are Flexco hinged #550.

Easy to get.....

The plan is to use two 12" belts and with the 12" wide tire guide we will end up with 36" tracks.

This should be fine for this cruiser.....At 10' 6" wide the machine will be manageable.

24" over legal at 102"     Our trailer has a 102" deck so only 12" on a side.

Easy haul with an over width permit...


----------



## Bobcatbob

Are those grouser bolts in a threaded hole or is there a nut you could cut off?  Torching them all off is a monstrous task (very cool tip head, never seen that).  Almost looks like removing exhaust manifold bolts.....a nightmare (especially when they break).  Maybe a bit of heat, then a big ol impact gun?

Looks great, enjoying your progress!

Bob


----------



## Snowy Rivers

The 2100 uses a 7/16" fine threaded grade 8 bolt with the nuts inside the J on the grouser.

Barely get a box wrench on them.

Would be easy to use a nut splitter if the nuts were on the inside of the track.

Other cats place the nuts inside the track so they are protected....

These have the swagged type lock nuts....which are good...until they have been let rust for so many years.

I got hold of a couple with a looooong beaker bar and really reefed on them....

The torch was the only real answer to get things moving......yessssss it is a monstrous task.


But I only have the one belt to cut the bolts off.

Once I have that belt for a sample to measure the length....GOOD TO GO 

I looked up the Flexco Hinge lacers online last night.  (#550)  (These are on 3 of the four belts now) 

They come in various lengths from Flexco

A 24" was available  (Simply cut in half to use for the two 12" belts)

The 2100 parts manual shows the Flexco listed....but they show a long bolt (5/16 fine thread with nut securing the hinge)

Flexco shows a poly covered cable to secure the hinge


I am not sure I like the cable idea ?????????

Maybe others will chime in here and comment on lacer's on their Thiokols OR other machines.

I had planned on reusing my old lacers/hinges  but the ends are worn out and many places have cracks....

Time for new ones.....


----------



## PJL

Yikes, that will be the worst part of this project by far.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

ONCE THE ONE BELT IS OFF  life will be pretty boring.

Drilling out the bolts on each tire guide is a breeze.

I am heading over town in a bit to look at the Flexco belt lace units.

30 minute drive......
The company is a distributor for Flexco.


I want to get eyes on the new ones and see what they cost......

Here is a piccy of the drill jig to remove the tire guide bolts.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Good things happened this morning....

No physical work....but went to see a local company that handles the Flexco belt lacing.

I get there and the folks are very polite and helpful....but soon it became obvious that they did not have the 550 series lacing in stock....or so they said.

We talked about options and I brought the conversation back to the reality that I want/need a lacing that can be easily dealt with in the field without special tools.

Riveted lacing was not gonna happen.

Thiokol had used the flexco lacing on the 2100 and the 1200 and the 550 series was what was used.

OK...MAYBE THERE ARE BETTER OPTIONS....BUT I AM NOT GOING ON A DAMNED FOOL CRUSADE TO FIND OUT EXACTLY WASSSUP WITH SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

The Flexco 550 was on my machine and obviously had been for a long time.

THEY WORK......

The conversation drifted back to the 550 lacing and the salesman says "WE can order them.

$125 per set for a 12" belt.

I comment..."So you don't have anything for "Touchy feely eyes on"

The other sales rep say "Just a minute"  he heads into the warehouse.

Comes back with a nasty badly trashed box of parts.

There are enough pieces to connect three of the 12" belts.

Thiokol used 3/8" bolts....Flexco uses a special 1/4" bolt with a goofy head and a special nut


3/8" hex bolts it is.....

So the bottom line....

Fella offers me the entire box of parts for $50

This is a no brainer....Grabbed that deal in a heart beat.

So we now have enough to do 3 belts.

The card comes out and Missy in the corner handles the paperwork......

Conversation heads into the belting arena and I give the sales boys the dims.

12" wide and 187" long nominal..

We discuss the specs on the belting.

The lacing is rated at 300 PIW (Pounds per inch of width)

The belting he is showing me is 3/8" thick 3 ply at 330 PIW

The original belting used by Thiokol was 3 ply...... no PIW available at this late date..

The next jump up is a 4/500  (4 ply at 500 PIW )

The lacing is rated at 300....no reason to go that far beyond the lacing rating.

Now for the best part

The 12" belts at 287" long   $140 each.

This is not a bad deal at all.....

I am pleased with where this is going....and the outfit is 30 minutes away and they have the belting in stock.

Next chapter in this project is gonna be to build the tooling to layout and drill the belts....and to assemble them STRAIGHT AND SQUARE....

So far..... my plan is to make a jig that can drill about a 3 foot section in one setup.

Index the end of the belt and drill 8 sets of holes....re-index and indicate off the last holes...go again.

I want to make damned sure that we do not end up with CREEP......poor pitch measurements are gonna suck.

Do not want the tracks climbing off the sprocket


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Doing some snooping online looking for the Flexco 550 belt lacing.

Like most stuff....you look and shop and you can get some good deals.

The stuff I got yesterday was an  OK deal....but I still need 1 more set to complete the track pair.

I found this outfit that sells the Flexco 550 hinge

These are available in many lengths as a continuous strip....the strip is scored at intervals all along the strip....simply grasping the strip with a couple long nose pliers and bending carefully will allow the needed length to be snapped off.

I am using 12" belts....a 36" strip will give me the last piece I need PLUS 2 extras for spare parts.

These guys have great prices on the stuff too
http://www.emurdock.com/375xj12ncsteeljointwithnyloncoveredsteelcable-3-1-1-1-1-1.aspx

Stock lengths are available from 18" to 60"  

These hinges will work on many cats with rubber belts that use the hinge type lacing.

Carry some spares in the tool box....An 18 volt impact drill, some basic hand tools and a proper repair could easily be accomplised in the field.

I noticed that several of the hinges on my track were cracked badly at the "hinge nose" where the load is.

Flexco normally uses a plastic coated cable as the hing pin.

The normal for the Thiokol was/is a long bolt.....

The water in the joints from the snow likely lubricates the joint sufficiently to negate the need for the nylon sleeve over the cable.

Flexco also uses a special fastener .....Most cats are going to use  3/8"-fine thread bolts through the hinge.

The prices at Murdock are far and away cheaper than even the ebay sellers....

I will order up a 3 foot piece here in a few days...

Hope this info is useful...


----------



## Snowy Rivers

More work done today.

The track is 1/2 apart now

Changed my plan of attack a bit....Got the hose right on the belt and flood the belt with water and then burn off the bolt heads...then flush with water to cool things quick...

So far only found one broken grouser.....

The tire guides all seem good so far.

As soon as the track is apart and the one belt is off.....then the attention turns to building the tooling to drill the new grousers and the new 12" belts.....

Going to be a fair amount of number crunching to be really sure everything comes out correct as far as the pitch goes.

Tomorrow I think I will get a couple pieces of the 1-1/2" angle and some 1-1/4" box tube and start building a couple grousers to my specs and see how they look...

Prototypes.....

The weather is going to close in in a few more days.

Once the weather drives me inside....I can work on grousers and remove tire guides off the old grousers.....

Ah yesss


This snow cat stuff is a disease ya know.....nobody in their right mind would go through the pain and misery we do with our cats....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Pulling hair....screaming and making obscene noises 

Decided to do the math on the length of the track belts.


72 grousers on a 4" pitch is 288 inches...

I kept getting odd measurements on the actual track belt.

Finally started checking the actual bolt holes in the belt


Started seeing an error show up within 3 holes its is showing that the belts have shrunk....

2 inches over the length of the belt.....


Anyway...now we know why the numbers did not crunch


----------



## Snowy Rivers

A clear head this morning and a few cups of coffee later.

Then...forget about how long the old tracks are/were or might have been.

72 grousers on a 4" pitch is 288"

The one response I got on belt length was 287"

Accounting for a small trim and the belt lacing the actual number is 286-1/2" of real belt length......

Dug out a nice heavy poster paper sheet and drew the connection and other dims up a bit ago.

The numbers all crunch now......  

A piccy of the drawing.

Not per drafting standards....but the data is all there......

Yesssss...I think we should use something better than a pencil for the hinge pin  

Likely will use a 416 stainless steel rod (Low galling properties)

Getting a bolt long enough to do these bad boys is proving to be tough.....so I will make them inhouse....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Went after the tire guides on the grousers.

I need all of those bad boys....

So far there are 14 of them off and on the bench.....


The impact wrench is pretty much a waste of time.

Toss the grouser in the mill vise and drill the bolt heads.

3/16" pilot drill  and then a 3/8 drill.

Grade 8 bolts are tough than billy hell.....but care on the pressure and speed and I can get two or three guides off before needing to sharpen the drills....


Tomorrow is another day and will see how many more can be done....


I want to get these all off before the weather goes sour....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Plugging away at removing the tires guides from the track.

Got a total of 25 off and on the table.

Not hard work....just slow and tedious.

Drop the grouser in the table vise in the mill.....Line up the 3/16" drill with the center of one of the tire guide bolts and drill the pilot hole below the bolt head...then swap in the 3/8" drill and bottom it in the hole.

Get the drill out of the way and then snap off the bolt head with the breaker bar.

Do the other one.

Do it all again.

The pile of grousers from the first half of the track is getting smaller.

Just no way to make this job go FAST 

So far the tire guides all look good.

It is obvious that tires have gone flat and been allowed to run over the tire guides some.....Some wear that should not be there....but no biggy....


Tomorrow will see more bolts drilled out.

I think that I am going to pick up enough materials to build a couple prototype grousers.....

Now that I have some tire guides off I can fool with some fitting of the guides to the grouser...

Decided on going with 5 bolts on the 12" belts at the grouser and 7 bolts on the lacing grouser.

One helluvalota bolts for sure.....

Will stay with the two 7/16" bolts on the tire guides....that has seemed to work fine for the design.


And on we go


----------



## Snowy Rivers

OK TROOPS....

POSSIBLE CHANGE ORDER COMING.

Looking at the room in the cab on the Frankencat and how much area I have to work with.

May possibly go with the hydraulic steering instead of the air.

Many reasons...biggest one is the availability of a reliable compressor at an affordable price.

Also the air chambers will need to be behind the OC-12 and Very vulnerable to damage from behind unless guarded well.

I have a pair of the 1" master cylinders like the ones used on Ford Econoline vans that have been laying around on the shelf.

MY question.

On the Spryte or other rigs using the OC12 with manual steering.....
What is the length of the steering lever from the pivot pin to the hand grip spot 

Approx how much force do you need to exert on the lever to lock the band well.

The 2100 requires 400 psi oil pressure at the slave cyl's on the diffy

I have been running through the calculations for brake master cylinder pressures and to achieve 400 psi nominal at the slaves needs

Distance from pivot to cyl bore 2"
Cyl bore 1"
Lever ratio  15:1
Pull force approx 20 pounds

Lever would need to be about 30" from the pivot to the hand position on the lever.


So what say ye troops

What is the magical number on these cats as far as the rod length from the pivot and how much ooooomph to get the band locked ?????


Thanks in advance


----------



## PJL

Good plan.  KISS.  I can send some pics of the 1200 setup.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

That would be sweeeeeeeeeeet

Length of the lever from the pivot to the top of the handle.


Today got off to a ripping start.

Had breakfast with friends and I got a phone call.

I had designed a custom wheel center so I can build some new wheels for FrankenCat.

The outfit called me to say the prototype was ready.

Absolutely sweet looking....

The shop has a water jet cutter and that thing is a really nice machine.


The plan is to order up some of the Heavy duty 12" wheel blanks from Hey Wheel Company

These are a tad thicker than normal 12" wheels.

The centers are 3/8" plate..

They will not buckle and deform at the lug nut area like the factory ones.


The new design puts the plate close to the edge of the drop center.....

Weld these bad boys in on the 5 spokes.....and see what happens.

I have had welded heavy spoke wheels with some huge tires on 4x4 trucks before and beat them to hell and they never had issues.


I plan on keeping the alloy wheels with foamed tires up front.....and if these new ones come out good I will replace all the others with the one I am building in house.....

There is not one wheel on the cat that is in great shape.

Between the nasty rust and the wobbled lug holes, bent centers.....junk ...all of them.


A few would get ya home....maybe.


The steel on the new wheels is 1/8" thick.

5 good welds /both sides of the spokes should give things a helluva go....


----------



## PJL

Overall length.  A little over 26 inches. 

Pivots on the upper holes.  

Master cylinder pushrod on the bottom holes.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Thank you a bunch.....

Any idea how many pound of pull is needed on the lever to lock the band.


Thiokol specs on the 2100 calls for 400 psi as optimal pressure at the band slave cylinders.

400 psi is easily achieved with the hand levers on the master cylinders.


Looking at cab interior and where the steering cylinders will need to mount on the floor.....the levers are going to have to be such that they pull off the main portion with the pivot and placed out of the way so the operator can get in and out of the cab....

Not real handy......but workable.......

There may be a possibility of mounting the RH lever/cyl to the right of the operators Right leg....
I need to crawl into the cab and get comfy and see what might work and be comfortable.

Having the LH lever by the driver door may work...Just need to pull the one lever to gain egress from the cab.

I am not nearly as happy with the layout as with the air controls......but the air presents issues that are starting to bother me....

The KISS principle comes to mind    VERY MUCH SO


I have thought about using the power steering pump  and arranging  two control valves to feed 400 psi to the steering slaves....

These types of controls could be mounted on the column the same as the little air valves.....

Now is a great time to really beat on this area and see what can be done...

The power steering pump can deliver more than enough oil and a few valves and a pressure regulator and it would be sweet....


Butttttttttttttttttttt.....The manual lever system is totally simple.....


Here is a piccy of one of the master cylinders I have.


More time with the engineering hat on and sitting in the cab with a pad and pencil me thinks


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Did some serious looking at the steering issue...

Using the factory steering cylinders or a new set.

The Chevy power steering pump will supply plenty of pressure and volume to suffice.

A pressure relief valve set at 400 psi feeding oil from the pump to a flow divider and then to a pair of 12 volt solenoid actuated 3/2 hydraulic valves will get the needed oil to the Diffy cylinders

To keep all oil out of the cab and to keep the operator station uncluttered a pair of simple lever actuated momentary switches mounted on the column work station should make life easy and simple.


Change orders......

Gotta love these.

A stock Chevy power steering pump is easy to find and it bolts right onto the engine...

A good oil cooler will be needed since the oil is going to be blowing through a relief valve.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Been getting the winter heating fuel in since we are about out of good weather  ( I will post over in the "not cat forum"

Back to the FrankenCat tomorrow.

Spent some time looking over the basic hydraulics needed to do the steering on the cat.

Need two 4/2 way 12 volt valves with sub bases.

One Flow divider
One pressure relief ( Set to 400 psi)

A few fittings and some of the "Build on site" Aeroquip hose with the "Wrench on fittings"

Two N/O Joy stick SPST switches


Two heavy 12 volt relays to handle the valves and keep the heavy current off the joy sticks.


The GM power steering pump will be quite sufficient to operate the Slave Cyl's on the OC12.

This plan is a real change from the air system....but the end result I do believe will be a better choice.

Using the factory type cylinders set to factory pressure will make for less worry.....


The parts are not break the bank costly and the parts are easy to find off the shelf stuff.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Good day today
Met up with one of our members today 
“The Fat Squatch”
We did some horse trading 

He had some extra wheel guides and a couple tire/wheels 
I had all the grousers from my one track and a couple hubs
So we both got some things we need

The tire guides are a real plus for my build
Now I can think about the second track

Ahhh yessss
Fun stuff


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Dragged the goodies outta the van this afternoon....

57 good usable tire guides......

Got feelers out for 15 more guides.

Now....the question.

Are the guides on the 3700 the same as the 2100?????????

The LMC 1500 guides will fit but are a different style 

Any input will help....

Gonna toss these Rusty gold goodies in a tub of vinegar and that will make them look great.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Wet soggy day around here.

Got busy on the mill drilling out more of the bolts that hold the tire guides onto the grousers....

A slow process....about 15 minutes each to get the guide off.

Looking over the stuff I got recently I discovers 4 odd tire guides.

These are later model 3700 guides..

Some inquires produced a lead on a bunch more 3700 guides.

The plan is to mix the 3700 guides into the mix @ one 3700 guide and then 6 2100 guides.....the 3700 guides are the same bolt pattern.....just beefier units with a tad more room between the uprights.

Snooped through several pictures of used 2100 and 3700 cats and they all showed a mixture of the two types.

The later 3700 guide is definitely a better stronger design.......
I believe this was a design change that came along and can retro in place of the earlier design.....

The pics show the different guides.

The two on the table has the 2100 in the foreground and the 3700 behind

Quite a bit different guide....but the width and bolt pattern are the same....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Got a bit of time this afternoon to fool with the new grouser design.

1-1/2" x 3/16" angle
1-1/4" box tube insert to stabilize the tire guide..

The tube gets cut on each end on a 45 degree angle to allow access to the mounting bolts.

Tube welds to angle.

This setup should be quit enough for the cruiser.

A few different aluminum grousers were used on the 2100 as well as the big beefy J steel grousers.

The angle design should be fine.

The outer corners get rounded off the help them navigate bare ground.

We shall see......

Getting the weight mass down a bunch is the goal....

Should come in about 850 lbs per track.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Been busy the last couple days...and it did not include much cat work....

Today is a lovely day with cool temps and clear skies.....

Took a look at the final 1/2 of the one track.....

This sucker needed to  be cut up and the grousers stacked up so I can drill out the tire guide bolts.

Got out the trusty Sawzall and went after the beast.

All cut up.....one piccy shows the last few left where they fell and the Monster that gave them their last ride together....

I am very happy not to have to bend over and cut any more rubber belt...

Got a plan figured out to build the new belts.

I need a 2 x 12 x 12' to act as a guide of sorts and a portable work bench.

Next comes a drill jig (3/16 steel x 12-1/2" wide to be the drill jig)
36" long with holes to manage 9 grousers .

Will see exactly how this shakes out....but something close so we end up with accurate pitch on the grousers.....


----------



## Snowtrac Nome

you would have got more life out of a porta band saw if I can avoid the sawzall for metal now days I do.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Sawzall beats the crap outta the operator.

But I own it and have plenty of blades.

Been thinking about a portable band saw though....

Harbor Freight has one for $135 

I bought one of their compound miter saws and it has been great.

I have an old one of their horizontal band saws I got at a garage sale and have run the crap out of it.

Been great.

Got a much newer Jet band saw and it is OK....

The old HF saw just keeps on going...


I am trying to make up an excuse to buy the hand held band saw


----------



## Snowtrac Nome

if you try one its all the excuse you need. that's what motivated me to get one


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Stop tempting me  

It will happen......


Today was an experimenting day .....

Grabbed up one of the 3 foot angle pieces and went to work on finishing GROUSER NUMBER 1

Stuck the angle in the mill vice with the legs down and cut a slot through the edge.

This allow me to weld the 1-1/4" box tube along the spine.

Also allows the tire guide to fit as the guide has a pretty good radius in the bottom.

Set up the old saw to cut the 1-1/4" tube ends on an angle (Allows the bolts to be stuffed into the hole)

The 7/16" bolts are it.....the 1/2" will not allow access for a wrench inside the tube.

Picked up a couple 7/16" x 1" bolts and a couple swage head nuts.

The Jet saw waiting to get after more of the 1-1/2" angle.

Have not drilled the holes for the belts yet....Gonna make a jig so all of them will be the same.

This one will likely be drilled with (7) 3/8" holes for the lacing......This will be the lacing cleat.......

I have a couple mods in mind for the coming grousers to make the fabrication a tad easier.

But this bad boy is looking good.....

A shot of it sitting up on the LH front track wheel......

Just need 143 more of these critters.

Good weather today....went and got a fresh bottle of 75/25 Gas for the mig...

At the bottom of the tank...Gauge stopped wiggling.....bad sign....EMPTY.

Got a steel yard that quotes $1.29 per foot on the angle....must buy 20 footers though.

Will get a few of the 20 footers and start making 3 foot grouser blanks.

Need some 1-1/4" box tube 1/8" wall for the tire guide supports.

I can cut the parts on days it's not raining....

A lot of cutting.....lots of milling the back edge of the angle.
Lots of cutting the tire guide support tubes and mitering the corners.


Gonna be a bunch of very mundane work to get the 144 grousers done.

I am feeling good about the size and weight of the 3 foot grousers.

Should be fine for the little FrankenCat......

Not well suited for for the 2100's original purpose.....blade and a drag...but this little cruiser should do fine.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

I ripped off the last one of the wheels that had really rough bearings the other day.

Bearings are shot.....AND some clown ripped out the lug stud splines and then drove in (5) 9/16" studs 

This is crap....
Ordered up a fresh hub from Trailer parts super store online
H25-555F is the part number.

The kit comes with The hub, bearings, seal, lug studs and dust cover.

All in a nice kit.....$60 plus freight.

Now.....they do supply lug nuts too......BUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT....THESE ARE 45 DEGREE SEAT NUTS and will not work with the cat wheels.

The cat uses nuts with a 60 degree tapered seat.

Other than that...good stuff.

I will use the old hub with the 9/16 studs as a drill jig to locate and drill the new wheel centers that are in the works.

Just add a bushing....locate and drill the new holes.....


These hubs are only found in stock at a couple outfits....

They are listed as "Agricultural hubs" 

Pretty much the same as the original cast hubs.

Crossing the factory hub casting numbers online brings these up.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Back to removing tire guides from the old grousers.

Lotssa drilling.....

Got a dozen guides off.

22 left to go to finish the lot.

Grabbed up a nice plastic tub and dumped in 3 gallons of vinegar and a box of salt.

Tossed in several of the recently acquired tire guides......gonna let them suckers soak for a day or so to get rid of the rust.....


Sitting in my little chair outside looking at the pile of recently removed guides...

Then I noticed that there are 4 different styles of tire guides.

Pix show it really well.

The orange one is the original 2100 guide.

Then we have what would seem to be a slightly upgraded design.  This one has a slightly different shape on the guide part....Slightly different angle on the outside portion and more weld on the channel....

The next one is similar except the channel portion is deeper.

Then the last one is the guide commonly found on the 3700 and 4700 machines.

These guides are also retrofitted to the 2100.

Much beefier design.

A drilled bolt on one ready to be snapped off.

And the parts ready for the trash.


----------



## m1west

Snowy Rivers said:


> Back to removing tire guides from the old grousers.
> 
> Lotssa drilling.....
> 
> Got a dozen guides off.
> 
> 22 left to go to finish the lot.
> 
> Grabbed up a nice plastic tub and dumped in 3 gallons of vinegar and a box of salt.
> 
> Tossed in several of the recently acquired tire guides......gonna let them suckers soak for a day or so to get rid of the rust...
> 
> Sitting in my little chair outside looking at the pile of recently removed guides...
> 
> Then I noticed that there are 4 different styles of tire guides.
> 
> Pix show it really well.
> 
> The orange one is the original 2100 guide.
> 
> Then we have what would seem to be a slightly upgraded design.  This one has a slightly different shape on the guide part....Slightly different angle on the outside portion and more weld on the channel....
> 
> The next one is similar except the channel portion is deeper.
> 
> Then the last one is the guide commonly found on the 3700 and 4700 machines.
> 
> These guides are also retrofitted to the 2100.
> 
> Much beefier design.
> 
> A drilled bolt on one ready to be snapped off.
> 
> And the parts ready for the trash.



Have you tried using a impact to over tighten them and snap them off, I had good luck with that method on a Thickol 603. I had a few that rounded had had to be cut, but most snapped off rather easily.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Biggest issue with the J grouser is getting a wrench onto the nuts and solid so the impact will do much.

The nuts are 11/16" and getting a socket or a good box wrench down into the area is sketchy at best.

I fooled with some at first and beat them unmercifully ......but things have too much give to get any real action.

Grade 8   7/16 bolts take a pretty good beating and do not want to give up easily.

I got tired of listening to the impact hammering away and the compressor howling.

That was when I cut the belts and started drilling out the guide bolts.

Not extremely fast....but it gets progress....

Down to just 20 grousers left to remove the guides from....

The Fine threaded bolts with the swaged head type lock nuts THAT HAVE RUSTED FOR YEARS are just nasty.....

I am going to use a swage head nut on the new track bolts....but going to go with 7/16" coarse thread....AND USE A COPPER NEVER SEAZE compound on the threads.

Also going to install the nuts on the inside of the belts instead of having the threads out getting beat up in the crap.

Just one of the not so fun parts of dealing with old rusty parts......



Gonna take a peek at the guides that are soaking in the vinegar/salt solution this morning.

My hope is that this nasty stinky stuff will get rid of most of the rust and then they can get a coat of gray paint.


Winter is gonna be a hit and miss thing.

Sadly...without having the cat inside to work on it....weather is a big factor.

The diffy is inside and will remain there until the real need to get it back into the chassis.....

After deciding to scrap the air steering and going back to the factory steering cylinders ...the need to get those cylinders apart is of great importance....

The 2100 uses regular oil in the steering system......as opposed to the Spryte which uses brake fluid in the steering system.

Brake fluid has an affinity for water....water causes RUST and corrosion in the cylinders .....SOOOOOOOOOOOO....With a bit of luck the old cylinders MAY ????  still be in decent shape.

The hydraulic lines were attached and the oil that ran out was clean....LETS HOPE THE PARTS ARE USABLE


The FrankenCat has come a long way this season....From late February until now, and so much has been accomplished.....but still a long way to go.

The drive shaft is all here in the shop...just need to shorten the front section about 8" it looks like....Then add the center support bearing bracket.

Tranny shifter set up
Tranny cooler lines
Radiator, fan, hoses and likely a booster pump to get coolant into the heater (Heater is much higher than would normally be seen)
Still need to scare up a power steering pimp and brackets (Steering)

Rear diffy outboard mounting pad on the frame need TLC (Been cracked and poor repairs done)

Front axle left side is bent a bit....need to straighten it

Wiring from the S10 cab harnesses to the chassis need to be done.
Column wiring needs to be finished up (Wiper and signal switch need replacing) Ignition switch needs to be mounted in the new column mount and connected to the factory harness.

Biggest and most time consuming will be fabricating the remaining 143 grousers and assembling the tracks.

Hydraulic (Grease) track adjusters need to be removed and checked over....

Several new wheels need to be built.
Centers need to have the pilot hole finish bore and the lug stud holes drilled and countersunk for the nuts to seat.

Have one new center (Prototype) and the wheel blanks are readily available.

Need to build some simple tooling (Jig) to locate the wheel centers to put them where they need to be.....WELD IN THE CENTERS......


Fuel tank needs to be soaked with either Vinegar or another derust material..
Not bad...but I want it clean......

Mount tank back to original location and plumb to engine through a large fuel water separator 

New Quadrajet Carb needs to get mounted... (Have a fresh unit)
Engine needs a new mechanical fuel pump and a factory type steel line from pump to carb installed.

A slightly longer stock type throttle cable will get the stock pedal connected

Fuel gauge in tank needs to be replaced and connected to the S10 wiring harness  (90 ohm gauge)

Overhead light bar needs to be mounted and wired.
Rear lights....signals and such.

Just getting it running and able to do a road test will be the first worries.

Then once the beast will go...then all the extra lights and goodies


Also...Once I know where exactly the radiator will be....The anteater hood has to be fabricated....and the cowl cover as well.

The side steps also need to be fabricated.
We have some nice 12" tread railing for the steps.....
Now that the track issue has been pretty much chiseled in stone I can build the steps to place the steps right over the bogie wheels....(Make ingress and egress easier)

Yeah...Just a walk in the park....

Looking at the amount of work seems daunting......just one step at a time.

And then soon it will be ready to "Gone Catin"


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Got 6 more Guides off the grousers...
The other half said we need to go shopping.....

OOOOOOOOOOOOK... So we did.

Maybe tomorrow I can plow through the last of these bad boys.....

Scared up a bunch more of the 3700 guides from a fella.

Deal still in flux...but should be able to make it go.....

Box with all new lug nuts came today....yessssssssssssssssss.

Most on the rig are nasty looking....new will be nice....


----------



## Snowtrac Nome

muriatic acid works better than anything I have ever used for removing rust give it 5 min  wash it and soak in wd 40 it will look like new


----------



## Snowy Rivers

I have used strong acids before for such things....

I really don't like having it around  (Young grand kids get into stuff)


Phosphoric acid works about as good and is far less nasty.

Best part of the Vinegar thing....when you are done with the cleaning project....dump the crap that's left on a bunch of nasty blackberry bushes.

Kills them suckers....pretty much biodegradable too.

I HAVE NOT USED WD40 as a cleaner though.

My fuel tank from the 2100 is in good shape, but has a bit of surface rust inside.....

I want to clean that bad boy before I install it back in the cat.

Definitely do not want to fight a bunch of rust getting into the fuel system....  (Big azz filter)

I would go with an aluminum tank....but the factory tank is sound and it will sit right back into the same location it came from.

I made sure the S10 cab was far enough forward that the tank can go right back into it's old location......

Gonna see just how well the Vinegar does....if it is only does a marginal job then something stronger is gonna have to be used.

Not sure on the story of these tire guides I got the other day....quite a bit of rust......

But they will clean up....and get us going.

So far the availability of these seems to be a tad scarce.

If the current deal comes about I will have enough guides to build both tracks....

I am looking at the possibility of fabricating tire guides.

Sadly this is looking like a major task.

Although not impossible....just time consuming.

Need to start with a 12" piece of Schedule 40 tube and plasma cut off about the top 1/3 (Part makes 2 pieces) ....then Flatten the ends where the part is bolted to the grouser.

Weld on the side plates and then add the actual guide pieces (Fab from rectangle tubing.

All quite doable.....just not what I want to be doing for months on end.

The original guides are a stamping from what looks like 10 GA sheet steel.
The factory stuff is heat treated.....not sure what the steel is....possibly grade 50.

The stuff obviously is weldable and can be drilled/punched

I am not real certain what materials were used.....

The factory likely wanted the best wear resistance and structural strength they could get and still have as much ease of manufacture.


I have heard varying stories about the early tire guides being very costly to produce ??????

The heavy "J" Grousers are definitely a costly item to make.

The aluminum extrusion grousers are probably cheaper to make....but nowhere near as durable especially on non snow surfaces.

Anyway.

We will see how all this "Salvage" operation goes.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

What a day.....

Spent a couple hours measuring and planning on how to make new tire guides.

Came up with what I think is gonna be a good plan.

Stopped off at the steel yard and dropped $50 on a bunch of materials.

Gotta build a fixture to hold the pieces in place while the guide is welded together.

A nice pipe the right size to scavenge the radius off of, and two pieces of flat bar to form the side plates.

Some 2 x 3 x 1/8" Rect tube for the actual guide portion.

$$$$ wise The materials will come to about $10 each.

Not bad..... 
The fixture is gonna take a bit to build...but this entire rigging should allow these tire guides to be slapped together pretty quick....

If ya can't find it BUILD IT.....

Ahhhhh well.

Then the Red tractor refused to start.

2 OF THE 3 GLOW PLUGS had died.....Colder weather and no go....

Spent 3 hours on the phone trying to find some.

Even the dealer did not stock them....ARRRRRRRGH.

Had to drive 20 miles to another berg and a NAPA STORE.

$20 FOR 3 NGK GLOW PLUGS.

But Li'll Red lives again.

Tomorrow is another day.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Time to make tooling.

Been sitting here looking at the 3700 tire guides...

Grabbed some stiff card stock and made a template of the tire guide uprights.

Fiddled with a few ideas.....

Grabbed up a chunk of 6" channel and started making a cutting fixture for the actual upright part of the guide.

The upright has a 60 degree face that the tire sidewalls come in contact with.

There are 3 different saw cuts.

A basic length of 2" x 4" x 1/8 rect tube 4" long.

Then the piece has to have the cut made where the part welds to the main tube of the guide.
One more cut needs to be made on the face that aims away from the tires (Faces outward)

Decided to drill a 3/8" hole in the rect tube in an odd spot that allows the part to be bolted to the fixture in one of two places....this allows the different cuts to be done and the part to lined up with the saw blade.

I have a piece of aluminum to make a permanent pattern to transfer the shape to the part.

We are not making Swiss watches, so tiny little differences is of no importance....

The fixture needs to be drilled and a nut welded under the channel at both locations to secure the part for cutting.

This little tool will make life a breeze.

Looking at the top of the guide....decided to weld in a piece of round material and polish the area in hope of negating the all too common train wrecks between the tires and the guides.....wheels too.

The hole in the guide tower may well serve to mount the tower to a locating jig for welding to the main guide tube


----------



## Snowy Rivers

The deal I had cooking on the (15) 3700 tire guides did come to pass....should be here mid week.

Still going to build the setup to make more.....no doubt they will be needed.

Weather is just raw out today....

Had a fella stop by and hauled off the last of what was left of the 77 Camaro that donated it's engine to the FrankenCat......

Cruising online today and stumbled onto some very lovely 15 gallon aluminum fuel tanks that have the 0-90 ohm sending units in them.

Tanks are a turn key set up..29-1/2" long....12" deep and 9" high

These will fit perfectly in the wheel house area on each side of the S10 pickup box...

Clean fresh and no worries....

The pickup box can now fasten to the 2100 chassis aft of the cab and look neat and tidy.....

A cute little canopy can fit on the box at a later date and give that area a nice finished look......

I had planned on using the factory 2100 fuel tank, but it is a tad rusty, and it was going to make fitting the box on a bit questionable.......


----------



## Snowy Rivers

The cool little fuel tanks...Alloy...no rust..


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## m1west

Snowy Rivers said:


> The cool little fuel tanks...Alloy...no rust..



Better get 2 you're not going far on 15 gallons.


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## Snowy Rivers

That's the plan 
One tank on each side tucked into the wheel house of the pickup box.

Yeah...with the little mouse motor running around 2500/3000 to make any real speed it's gonna be a hungry devil.

30 gallons should make for a fairly good amount of run time.......

The old wheel house location is wasted space anyway.....so these tanks were an almost perfect choice.

What would be sweet would be a pair of round tanks about 12" thick and 30" in diameter.....That would yield a usable capacity (With some expansion room) of 25 gallons each....maybe a touch more.... Great design to keep the fuel at the lowest point.

I might look at that idea.
I wish I had a Tig welder....I would build a set.

Maybe there is a Tig machine on my Christmas list  .....I used to have one....never used it so I sold it.


----------



## m1west

Snowy Rivers said:


> That's the plan
> One tank on each side tucked into the wheel house of the pickup box.
> 
> Yeah...with the little mouse motor running around 2500/3000 to make any real speed it's gonna be a hungry devil.
> 
> 30 gallons should make for a fairly good amount of run time.......
> 
> The old wheel house location is wasted space anyway.....so these tanks were an almost perfect choice.
> 
> What would be sweet would be a pair of round tanks about 12" thick and 30" in diameter.....That would yield a usable capacity (With some expansion room) of 25 gallons each....maybe a touch more.... Great design to keep the fuel at the lowest point.
> 
> I might look at that idea.
> I wish I had a Tig welder....I would build a set.
> 
> Maybe there is a Tig machine on my Christmas list  .....I used to have one....never used it so I sold it.



If you want round, what about a couple aluminum beer kegs in the wheel wells.


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## Snowy Rivers

Gawd that would be sweet....

There is enough room to get them in under the wheel house and let whatever hang out over the track.

Sadly...all these trick ideas are overshadowed by $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

The little tanks referenced in the pix are $125 each and have everything "Turn key" sending unit it correct for the S10 gauge too.

A very inexpensive set up that will nearly act as a bolt right in unit....


----------



## m1west

Snowy Rivers said:


> Gawd that would be sweet....
> 
> There is enough room to get them in under the wheel house and let whatever hang out over the track.
> 
> Sadly...all these trick ideas are overshadowed by $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
> 
> The little tanks referenced in the pix are $125 each and have everything "Turn key" sending unit it correct for the S10 gauge too.
> 
> A very inexpensive set up that will nearly act as a bolt right in unit....



Craigslist here in my area has hundreds of them from $20.00-$50.00 each, listed in the general section.


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## Snowy Rivers

Been there.....nothing for sale at present.....

I thought about taking a couple old heavy truck diesel tanks and cutting them down  (Cut the centers way back and weld the halves together to get a couple nice 20 gallon or so tanks.

Found a couple tanks up in Seattle....not interested in a road trip though.

As the time gets closer I will make a decision as to what will happen.

Definitely going to use the box that came with the S10....I own it and it will be easy to mount behind the cab...

May even consider building a "Veranda" behind the box and possibly figure out a taller canopy setup....

Be simple to extend the Veranda out over the tracks and then access would be a simple walk down the tracks and step up on the veranda......

Gotta get the beast mobile first.....but ideas that simmer on the back burner tend to come out better....


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## Snowy Rivers

4 hours.....yup....got in and finished getting the nasty rusted bolts on the tire guides all drilled out.

Popped the lid off the vinegar soak tub...Gawd that stuff stinks.

Sure does a sweet job getting the rust off.

A before and after piccy.

Had about 20 tire guide to get off the grousers.

Last one left from the pile of many.
Last one in the mill.....and last bolt to drill.

Several YEAH BUDDIES after the last guide was tossed onto the pile on the table.

I am very happy that mess is done......

ANYONE NEEDING ABOUT 50 PLUS J GROUSERS... THE PILE ALL NEED A HOME...PM ME


Now to finish soaking the one I got from up North in Washington......

Next ....each guide needs to be looked over and any that have any cracks or need other repairs need to get set aside and repaired.

All the good ones can be cleaned up a bit and painted....then tossed on the shelf.

I need to clear my little white table so I can work on other stuff.

The tooling for building tire guides is on my hit list as well.

I am sure we will need a few to get two complete sets that match.

I don't mind mixing the various styles at all....but would like to keep an even number of the oddities scattered in the sets to at least make it look like it was planned...:th_lmao:


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## Snowy Rivers

Got the area spiffed up...the old grousers stacked up away from the cat and in general things a bit neater.

15 Tire guides showed up today in the mail...

Look great.


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## Snowy Rivers

A saying that came to my mind from a time waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out in the sticks working in a mill trying to get stuff to work.

WE THE UNWILLING, LEAD BY THE UNKNOWING, ARE DOING FOR THE UNGRATEFUL..
WE HAVE DONE SO MUCH FOR SO MANY, FOR SO LONG, WITH SO LITTLE, THAT WE ARE NOW QUALIFIED TO DO ANYTHING WITH NOTHING.

This is the concept I keep in mind when trying to figure out how to make odd crap work on a Snow Cat in places it was never designed to be located.....


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## Snowy Rivers

Some possible good news in the works.

A fella called me night before last an he was answering an posting I have on Craig's list looking for a 2100 track.

We had a running dialogue for over an hour about tracks, grousers and tire guides.
He sent me some pix of used tracks in various states of condition.
Same type track I just finished taking apart for the guides.

In one piccy was a pile of Axles sitting by a tree.  Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm  ?????

I asked him if he has a front axle for a 2100.....Mine is bent on the LH side....pretty nasty mess.

Fella says he is pretty sure he has one with a good LH side...

Not sure if a wheel bearing failed or the torsion rubber unit went away.....

A wheel bearing failure that resulted in the spindle getting wasted can be fixed easily.

I can coax a bad spindle out of the arm quite readily with some work and then remove the one off mine and weld it into the new one.

If the issue is the torsion flex then the RH side of my axle can be cut off and welded onto the axle with the good LH side.

Either way it's a winning combination.

He is interested in my Tilt cab and the blade.....I am hoping that this works out good for us both.

I have only looked at the front axle enough to know that it was wounded terribly at some point....and the repair was on a par with a 5 alarm train wreck.

Getting some more tire guides and a fix for the front axle will be a real boost to the project.

I have toyed with trying to straighten the axle, but that is going to take either a big AZZ press or a heavy chunk of H beam, some rigging and my 20 ton hydraulic jack...

The axle has a bend in the center right by the large sump area....and then the mess on the LH end that appears to be a compound bend.....Top of the LF wheel is tipped in enough to see without any help.

There are two large chunks of steel welded onto the axle...one in front and one on the back of the tube......

Just cutting off the RH end of the axle just inboard of the gussets  and far enough in to be past the torsion unit then adding a steel inner tube to stiffen the joint and welding the joint will work fine.

Keeping the thing cool so the torsion unit is not stressed is paramount.

Anyway....lets hope this revelation comes to pass.....be sweet to get that job finished.

While the axle is out I can pull out the track tension cylinders and check them out to be sure they are ready for prime time.

I am happy that this cat has the grease cylinders to adjust the tracks....

WE SHALL SEE WHAT SHAKES OUT...


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Had an interesting conversation with my contact on the cat parts

He has plenty of guides.

The axle issue has taken a strange turn....possibly better....I don't know yet.

He said all his 2100 axles have the LH side messed up.....Sounds like conspiracy or ????

But he said he has a pair of "Swing axles" from a 3700

Here is a piccy of one.

The pics I have seen of the 3700's have the same axle as my 2100

Can anyone identify this thing ??????


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Well now...
Just got a text from my contact up on the mountain...he is heading over and bringing a pair of the 3700 front axles and other goodies.

Be here about 12:30ish 
I will get pics of things as we get after it.

He is taking the cab home and a few other items too.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Got rid of the cab off the 2100 and a few other trinkets...

Fella left happy and my back yard is closer to being able to be mowed next spring....

Gonna get some more tire guides out of the deal.

Sadly the 3700 front axles were not the real deal....somebodies home made copies and they are junk.

The LH side has had the spindle torsion housing broken off and welded back on.

On a weird azz angle no less.
The RH side has the spindle itself bent.

The fella brought along a spryte front axle.....LH side has the spindle bent to rat crap too....so bad it is quite obvious just looking at it.

So no joy in the deal other than tire guides.......

I have decided to start from scratch and build a pair of separate axles similar to the 3700 type and bolt on a pair of Flexiride or possibly another brand of flex half axle.

I at least want to start with my front axles being straight.....

Would seem that these beasts get crashed into big azz rocks and the rigging bent up a lot.

All my other axles are in good order.  Just the front one is thrashed.

Ah well.....that's how it goes when you are trying to bring life back to old iron...


----------



## Snowy Rivers

OK

The front axles is gonna get some personal attention ....AS IN BUILD MY OWN

KEEP the factory hydraulic/grease tension adjuster on the outside and add a second sliding tube up near the side of the tub.

Dual slide tubes and UHMW bushings in a pair 3-1/2" OD round steel tubes

The outer tube assembly will bolt up to the factory "Slide member" and the inboard one will bolt to the inner member.

A 2-1/2" shaft will fit between the the slide members and the spindle and its arm will be slip onto the keyed end of the shaft (At 2-1/4" dia) and be secured with a 3/4" grade 8 bolt

The spindles used in the 2100 are a standard Agricultural size with 1-3/8" inner bearings and 1-1/4" outer bearings.

Readily available off the shelf items CHEAP.....Weld in units...

Simple high school fabrication so far.......

The actual SUSPENSION will be a 3500 pound capacity 5-1/4" diameter air bag.

An arm welded to the shaft between the bushing units will arc back over the frame.

A steel mounting pad to hold the air bag and an arch assembly to serve as the top air bag mount will be welded to the frame inboard of the inner edge of the track.

Air up the bag so the the cat just starts to lift while setting level and good to go.

This may seem a tad complex....actually not....
Most components of consequence can be repaired/replaced easily.

This setup will be individual for each side.

Inner and outer tube assemblies will be interchangeable to make parts easy to replace.

Bushings can be replaced easily by slipping the assembly apart.....

End thrust will be accomplished by a thrust plate welded to the center portion of the shaft astride of the air bag ride arm......

Simple and effective way to fix this issue with pretty much off the shelf parts.

After going over the pile of scrap yesterday afternoon and then talking to another fella that had some axles he would sell......all of it turned out to be junk.

One end or another on these front axles seems to always be trashed.


Just an after thought.

I may be able salvage a pair of the end castings and spindles off of what I got yesterday and then add a weld in keyed bushing to them to allow their use in this new design.

This idea MAY save some $$$$ and keep the parts looking similar.

The fairly small spindle diameter does not take much to tweak it....especially when there is 8000 plus pounds behind a crash into a huge azz rock....or whatever non movable object gets hit.

Stay tuned as this saga unfolds......

I am not going to go on any more damned fool crusades just to find more scrap iron.

Simple, off the shelf parts to get it done.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Decided to cut one of the 3700 front axles apart and see if I can salvage the spindle and the torsion hub to use on the custom set up.

Getting that heavy beast in the saw was a job......Then things got ugly.

The pictures show a lot of what deteriorates in these torsion axles.

It is obvious that the rubber cords had failed in two areas.
The torsion bar had shifted a lot and the plastic half bushings on the back of the torsion casting were totally trash.

Further snooping revealed that the outer tube had failed just inside the torsion housing.

The square tube is broken in two in a couple places.

Another shot looking at the cut end from the cutoff end.

Pretty much used up....

I machined off the weld and a crack appeared all the way around the end of the torsion bar.....my 20 ton press will not even budge this bad boy.

Gonna trot it out to a big truck shop I have used back in the day and see if their 50 ton press will push the beast out...
If this will not work then I will toss the beast back in the mill and drill some relief holes all around the inside of the bar.


Saving the two housings and spindles would be sweet.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Called up the Truck shop and asked about their hydraulic press...40 ton job.

We tooled on over and the shop foreman dropped the Torsion casting in the press and leaned on it.

Creep'd up to 40 tons and then BANG

That sucker let loose....
After we got it out it was obvious that the odd shape of the torsion bar had allowed a bit of weld to sneak down along side of the curves in the bar.

4 small little welds had remained in the casting....had to break them off.

The next one I will be sure and use an end mill and cut down into the area of the weld to totally expose the bar      

I may be able to push it out here at home.....

20 tons just would not gitterdone......but 40 did.  

Cleaned up the threads and got the nut to screw on easily.

Need to polish up the spindle real good as it is a tad rusty.....But no apparent nasty wear showing......

Still working out the details on the new front suspension......but the idea is coming into focus fairly well.....

I want to get some critical measurements off the RH SIDE of the original axle and its location in the frame so the location of the new parts will be as close as we can get  on the new set up...


A couple pix


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Went down a bit ago and cut up a Spryte axle that was part of the trade deal this weekend....

One of the axle spindles and torsion arms was in great shape.

Got the axle chopped in half and the good end in the saw.

End cut off now ...

The torsion arm was crooked with the axle tube.....YUP...After looking it over it was obvious it had been re-welded and NOT STRAIGHT EITHER.

But the weld will get cut off now and the stub shoved out.

The original torsion bar in the rubber is about 1-3/4" square....SORT OF

I think I will bore out the torsion arms to accept a 2" round shaft.

I think I will use cold roll steel shaft because it welds good and the welds are not prone to cracking as much as heat treated steel (Like the factory torsion bars that DO break off..

The torsion arms are likely a forging rather than a casting.....

They machine well....


I am going to put a used wheel hub on the spindles and set them up on the mill and take a fine skim cut off the inner edge of each of them to true things up before I bore the centers out for the new axles.

I want to sit the torsion arms on the rear face to bore them....but it is not machined and I want the spindles to be square with the world both X & Y

Going to take a bit of fooling around to get these suckers built.....but should be pretty decent.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Went after the axle project this morning...

Picked up some round 1" plate burnouts and got one in the lathe and machined it to fit in the back side of the torsion arm where the plastic split bushing had been.

This when welded in will give the axle shaft better support.

At present the plan is to mill the 2" shaft to fit the square hole in the torsion arm and machine the new 1" plate to be a light press fit onto the axle.

Shove it together and weld the axle on the outside as was the factory axle...

The spindle cleaned up pretty well and the bearings fit fine.....

SO ....WE ARE GAINING SOME GROUND ON THIS PROJECT....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Been doing a bit of stewing on this front axle idea.

The front axle is the most vulnerable axle on the cat.....

Besides carrying the weight of the front of the machine, it carries the stress the track puts on it and then if the operator slams the track into a stump/rock or other non movable object all bets are off.

Axles are not a complex item.....but they are expensive....and you can't just stop off at Autozone and grab a fresh one for your Cat.....

After spending a couple hours yesterday fooling around making shavings at the lathe I really thought this thing was on the right track.

But the more I think about it....the more I think this thing needs to take a bit of a bit different angle on things....

I like the heavy steel torsion unit with the spindle welded in.....It is simple and sturdy.

Once things get into the torsion axle it gets costly no matter what you do....

My original idea of welding in a 2" shaft and and machining up a pair of UHMW bushings carriers seemed good.

The shaft is going to wear....dirt, water, and all matter of crap will eventually work its way into the area between the shaft and  UHMW bushing....and the shaft is going to suffer.

The shaft needs to be about 28" long and once it is welded into the torsion arm it's not an easy thing to replace.

Heading inward the air bag arm must be connected to the shaft....either welded on or machined and keyed to the shaft.

The shaft is too long to handle in my lathe.....so doing anything on either end is impossible  (Drilling the end or ???)

It was here that I fell back to an old ide in designing DONT REINVENT THE WHEEL 

How can this job be done using off the shelf parts that are dirt cheap, plentiful and available easily ??????

Also replaceable quickly if need be.

Replaceable bushings.
Easy to work on.
Simple design
Very inexpensive $$$$$$ both originally and to fix if ya break it...
Design uses OFF THE SHELF PARTS....SOME OF WHICH CAN BE SOURCED FROM THE U-PULLIT wrecking yard.....

CHANGE ORDER......

Keep the torsion arm and spindle (We own it and it's in good shape)

Now here is where things get interesting.

Use the RH rear axle shafts from an Astro van (Dirt cheap  $30 each) and readily available.

Machine up an adapter to bolt into the original 2100 axle mounting flange/adjuster tube.

Fabricate an adjuster frame for the inner end of the axle
The air bag idea is nearly unchanged.
The bag frame will have a tube that slides over the axle shaft and fits in close proximity to the shaft.

On the inner end of the bag mounting will be a a 28 spline flange (Cannibalized from a Ford rear axle pinion) Weld the flange to the bag arm assembly .

Arm assembly slips over the axle and engages the splines.....the original C clip groove in the axle will secure the entire assembly on location.

There will be various spacer tubes and thrust plates  (Washers) that will go into the stack to keep the parts where they need to be AND the parts that ride in the UHMW bushings will all be separate items with minimal machining on them so they can be replaced easily when wear renders them JUNK.

I am looking at very low cost for the original build and  again...low cost for maintenance items (Consumables)

The torsion arm is going to get a bit more machining to give me some room to add a bolt on flange to secure the arm to the Astro axle shaft.

Still need to take a few measurements on the cat before I remove the original axle so the wheel position will end up proper.

But we have a lot of room as far as what can be whacked off the torsion arm  and not compromise it's strength.....

Sound complicated ?????   Actually it is not.

Astro RH axle shaft
Some steel tube cut to various lengths
A few pieces of steel plate
Some UHMW tube 

Ahhhh yess
McGyver again......:th_lmao:

I think I know where I can scare up another pair of the track adjuster slides

That will save me time and effort......


----------



## Snowy Rivers

A wet afternoon here....down right nasty.

This morning I was able to get my handy tape measure on things.

The plan looks very good ....One fly in the ointment though.

Not going to be able to use the old torsion arm and spindle.

With the axle bolt flange in the mix right outside of the track adjuster axle mounting there is not quite enough room to use the old parts.   (Would set the front tire too far out)

Ah well...that's how it goes when you're engineering on the fly.

Drew up a sketch of whats needed to mount the spindle....
Will need a fresh spindle.....

Thought crossed my mind to try and coax the old one out of the arm.....just might take more work than it's worth to chop the spindle out.

When the weather clears up I may try removing the spindle.....

If it gets ugly....Pfffffft. 

A fresh spindle is not much $$$$


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Well now....

The old saying about the best laid plans of mice and men.....often go astray....

It sure did.
I spent a fair bit of time measuring things up to be able to use a GM axle shaft on each side of the cat front end.

All looked so good.....until it became real clear that getting anything weldable with a spline in it that would fit the GM 28 spline axle.

Nope......Getting a sleeve that can be welded and that has the 1.205" 28 spine is not gonna happen.

One outfit said they could custom spline a piece of steel tube  made to my dimensions .......Minimum order and a loan from the world bank.....


Soooooooooooooooo....back to plan A 

Grabbed up the Torsion arm/spindle and fitted the hub to it and got it on the mill table.

Clamped it down and took a light clean up cut on the back side to give me a way to make sure the spindle will end up square with the world on both axis.

Then got the arm in the table vise and set up the boring head.

Machined out the original square hole where the torque rod was welded in to 2.00"

Machined the center of the 1" thick steel plate (Backing plate for extra width of purchase on the shaft)

Headed out to the steel yard and picked up a chunk of 2" Cold rolled shaft 2" x 28" long....


Then for the real test..    Took all my 20 ton press would do to shove the shaft into the spindle arm.

It can be seen in the pix how the opening in the rear of the arm is goofy and appears offset...

The plastic bushing had worn out and the square tube of the original axle had chewed things up a lot.

Going to weld the shaft to the arm on the front side as it was originally.

The plate on the back gets welded on the OD to the arm......I may or may not weld the plate to the shaft on the back.

So as of now.....the plan moves like this.

The original track adjuster/axle mounting will get a machined part made to bolt in that has a steel tube and a UHMW bushing.

I may add a replaceable sleeve over the 2" shaft where things go through the bushing.

The the tub end I have another set of factory adjuster brackets.

A similar set up on the inside....to also work to keep the axle parallel and adjust it too.

The air bag bracket with it's tube will slip over the s" shaft and be secured in position with two 5/8" grade 8 bolts through the shaft.  

Similar to how hubs are retained on some tractors......

TWO Grade 8   5/8" bolts are more than plenty in shear to secure the air bag arm....

A piccy of the seal surface on the spindle.

I do believe a speedy sleeve is a good idea for this bad boy.

The journals cleaned up real well and the bearings fit sweeeeeeeeet.....but the seal ride area sucks.


----------



## Pontoon Princess

I know I don't know nearly enough to even add my 2 cents worth here, wouldn't a torsion axle from a car trailer might work, probably a stupid idea


----------



## PJL

I was wondering that too.


----------



## m1west

Another idea would be to use torsion bars from 70's Chrysler products. You can find them easily along with the hex holders for the ends at pick and pull for a song. They could be inside a hollow tube, they still make different bars for road racing that are extra strong also you can set  how much much tension you want on them with the adjuster. I just sold a 69 dart hot rod. I set ride hight with the tension adjuster. Its very simple and strong.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

The trailer torsion axle idea has been explored.....

The shape of the units is odd enough that getting them to fit is a big question....?????????????

If I could get my hands on one that might be different.

This coupled with the price of a pair/kit makes it a sketchy proposition.

The torsion bar idea did come to mind.....sadly the length rears it's ugly head.
The Chevy/GMC ...GMT400 K series 4x4 used the torsion bars as well.

Once you start needing to cut things up....all bets are off.

Welding on these is a no no....

BUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT......Today was nice and I got a lot of good measurements off the cat that were accurate.....

I crunched up a lot of numbers and things look good.

Decided to draw this thing up ACTUAL SIZE on a poster sized sheet.

Real actual dimensions + - 1/16"

The numbers did not lie, and the design will work sweet.

Here is a picture of the actual drawing.

After I finished I decided to add a wear sleeve between the 2" axle and the UHMW bushing so there will be nearly zero wear on the axle....and a simple bushing and wear sleeve change will rebuild the unit......


I have looked at the TIMBREN rubber springs and these look promising as does the small 5" air bags

More snooping needed.....but the main design can move ahead.

The torque arm will either wind up with the air bag or a rubber spring...

Suspension will have a stop that will limit travel down as well as up....

I really like the idea of the rubber spring that works under compression....

The end result will be very similar to how the factory parts worked.

Best part is the separate axles will be serviceable, and repairable....

I looked at a few more used ones this weekend  JUNK...ALL OF THEM....
And the sellers wanted $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

The view in the drawing is basically a cutaway...sort of.

The  drawing being to actual size made checking feasibility easy.

Getting the torque arm finished will depend on whether we go with the air bag
or the rubber spring (Timbren)

The small air bags are dirt cheap...and easy to replace.

I have not been able to get $$$$$ figures on the Timbrens as yet....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

My head is still spinning after yesterdays imagineering and drawing session.

Going over availability of materials to see if what I want is available.

Schedule 80 steel pipe for the adjuster bracket bushing tubes, and some 3" DOM tube (3" OD X 2" ID) For the airbag/rubber spring mounting arm.

So far the availability looks good....will know in a while.

Most of the other materials are standard stuff and just a matter of grabbing it and cutting to length and getting the tools on it.


----------



## HillBilt

I love the Trans/Tcase adapter used for a spacer block on the mill


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Either that or grab a chunk of pipe and toss it in the lathe and chew on it...

Ahhhh...it got the task done :th_lmao:


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Snowy Rivers said:


> My head is still spinning after yesterdays imagineering and drawing session.
> 
> Going over availability of materials to see if what I want is available.
> 
> Schedule 80 steel pipe for the adjuster bracket bushing tubes, and some 3" DOM tube (3" OD X 2" ID) For the airbag/rubber spring mounting arm.
> 
> So far the availability looks good....will know in a while.
> 
> Most of the other materials are standard stuff and just a matter of grabbing it and cutting to length and getting the tools on it.


The materials for the new axle mountings will be in today.

Seems that some of the pictures for the last few pages are MIA
I will put them in this post and maybe the others will show up soon


----------



## Snowy Rivers

The actual slider track adjuster tubes are still in the cat along with the old bent axle.

I need to remove the axle and the adjusters so I can measure up the slider tubes.

This cat has the Hydraulic (Grease filled) Cylinders to adjust the tracks.....I will remove that entire assembly and while they are out they can be checked over.

The new slider/adjuster/axle mounts will need to be machined to allow the adjuster cylinders connect as they did to the factory parts.....
The plan is to keep the factory parts intact so if at some point they are needed they will be available.


----------



## Pontoon Princess

my last .02 cents

golly geez this would look so kewl on the rat cat


----------



## PJL

Yes it would,  with a quad turbo 8V92 Detroit under it.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

I think I will need to build a much heavier Front axle to hold things up  with the big Detroit sitting on the front....

Got the materials to start building the new axle support tubes today.....
3" Schedule 80 pipe in the back and the 3" DOM in front....

Need to cut to length and machine the ends.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Well...It appears that pics are still not fully back up and running...

Good news
Got the UHMW Bushing materials for the new front axles on it's way.
Did a bit of snooping in the grease seal handbook and found some seals that will go into the axle bushing tubes to keep water and debris out.

Normally UHMW is not used with grease....but after a chat with the folks that make the stuff they informed me that grease will not hurt the polymer.....The grease will however keep the axle shaft from rusting...

I got seals coming that use a "VH" type seal lip (Lip facing outward to keep water and dirt out and let grease purge through.

This is the same arrangement that was/is in the hubs on the 2100 bogies.

As soon as the materials arrive things can get to going on the new axle assemblies.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Materials for the front axles (Redesign for separate axles on each side) are drizzling in.
Getting ready to start machining some of the parts and discovered that the supply of carbide inserts for my bring boring bars had dwindled to ZERO 
The bar set was made over seas and was a great deal at the time.....but the carbide triangle inserts did not have any markings on them.....
The cutters were a low grade insert anyway....time for new ones.

After much thrashing about and several phone calls I was able to identify the boring bar inserts by size, thickness and relief angle.

Luckily these boring bars use an industry standard insert 

Decided to take a trip across town to a tool supply house and make sure the story was real and the new inserts will fit the bars.

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.....
Bought a couple inserts while we were there (They only had two anyway)  Normally these come in packs of 10 pieces.

With this info in hand I now have a very broad range of choices to be able to use depending on the task at hand.

So....with the tooling issue handled we're off to the rodeo...

As soon as the rest of the materials get here the chips can fly.....

I will get pics as soon as the forum is fully functional.

Seems the pics I posted the other day went MIA again..

Doc says it may take a few days for things to completely get back to full function.


----------



## western auto

Pontoon Princess said:


> my last .02 cents
> 
> golly geez this would look so kewl on the rat cat


too funny i know the guy that bought that cab its in yuma az now


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## Snowy Rivers

Seems we had a glitch and some pix vanished into the ether....

I will try to put up as many pics that I can remember from the last ones on page 38 forward


----------



## Snowy Rivers

More pics


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## Snowy Rivers

More pics
Axle spindle arms and such


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## Snowy Rivers

Trying to play catch up here.
Piccy of the real time (Actual size) drawing of the new front axle and the new steel tube to machine the new parts from.
A shot of the worn seal area.
A speedi sleeve will deal with this issue


----------



## Snowy Rivers

I will get some more pics as time and such permits.

Slow at the moment with nasty weather.
I plan on getting going on getting the old front axle out of the cat soon......This will allow me to check out the track adjusters and the cylinders.

Once this is done we will have the final measurements needed to start cutting and machining the parts for the new axles.


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## Snowy Rivers

A pic of the track drawing with measurements


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## Snowy Rivers

Sitting here watching the rain come down and thinking about wheels for the cat.

We all know that the 12" wheels for the Thiokols and others use the 5 x 5.5 bolt pattern..... no longer produced and the cost of the spoke'd alloy cat wheels is off in the ozones....

There are a metric buttload of nice steel 12" wheels available for other apps from Ag stuff to boat trailers. yada yada yada ...butttttttttttttttttttttt 5 x 4.5 is the lug centers of 4x4 ?????? Arrrrrrrgh

Found an outfit the makes some cool stuff for Destruction Derby cars and other off road hard usage toys.

Here is an answer to the problem.

Pick your fav wheel style.....cut the center out and drop on one of these bad boys and good to go.

Countersink the holes to suit with a 60 degree countersink and you are set





						ski small center – NLR Derby Parts
					






					nlrderbyparts.com
				




At $15 each and a few shekles for shipping  What a deal.
3/8" plate with the holes already drilled and the center hole at 4"........ A perfect solution.

A bit of set up and a bit of welding and toss on a fav color paint job.....Good to go.


----------



## HillBilt

Snowy Rivers said:


> Sitting here watching the rain come down and thinking about wheels for the cat.
> 
> We all know that the 12" wheels for the Thiokols and others use the 5 x 5.5 bolt pattern..... no longer produced and the cost of the spoke'd alloy cat wheels is off in the ozones....
> 
> There are a metric buttload of nice steel 12" wheels available for other apps from Ag stuff to boat trailers. yada yada yada ...butttttttttttttttttttttt 5 x 4.5 is the lug centers of 4x4 ?????? Arrrrrrrgh
> 
> Found an outfit the makes some cool stuff for Destruction Derby cars and other off road hard usage toys.
> 
> Here is an answer to the problem.
> 
> Pick your fav wheel style.....cut the center out and drop on one of these bad boys and good to go.
> 
> Countersink the holes to suit with a 60 degree countersink and you are set
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ski small center – NLR Derby Parts
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nlrderbyparts.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At $15 each and a few shekles for shipping  What a deal.
> 3/8" plate with the holes already drilled and the center hole at 4"........ A perfect solution.
> 
> A bit of set up and a bit of welding and toss on a fav color paint job.....Good to go.



Im not sure how many you need but If you know anyone with a CNC table they could spit those out in a few minutes, might save you some bucks


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## Snowy Rivers

Nobody I know has that kind of machinery.....
Be cool though


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## Snowy Rivers

Headed to town a bit ago
Stropped off at the post office and picked up the UHMW tube for the axle bushings.
Also got the seals I ordered for the ends of the bushing housings......

I ordered up one of those rings I mentioned yesterday too..
Gonna use that sucker for part of the tool to locate the centers in the new wheels.

After crunching the numbers on things....buying regular 12" wheels and then changing the centers out was just too much extra $$$$$$$ and a lot more work.
Spoke again with Hey Wheel company and they can supply a 12" wheel blank and a center formed from 1/4" plate that will just slip into the wheel blank to be welded.

Each package is $67 

Buying complete wheels are on average about $35 to $50 each, then the cost of the centers at $15
THEN there is the fact that the ready made wheels have a zero offset....and the cat needs 3/4" negative offset.

This made it necessary to use an extra spacer in the wheel.

Far less issue to use the Hey Wheel materials and just locate the centers and weld them in.

The 1/4" plate centers (Come drilled for 5" on 5-1/2" pattern with a 4" pilot hole and the holes are countersunk 60 degrees too.
A no brainer....on this one.

And all of the wheels will end up identical too.
These wheels are heavier material as well;


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Another slight skew to the plan.
The steel wheel rings cost to ship from Kansas to Newberg Oregon makes the wheel rings cost half again the the amount.
Local sourcing is the ticket....but where ?????
The answer presented itself from a very unlikely source.

I was on the phone with the outfit that actually makes the 12" wheel rings (No center) and they sell the rings to the outfit I had contacted originally.

The manufacture also sells complete wheels with the same rings to several other resellers.
Only caveat is the bolt circle is wrong and they do not offer the 5 on 5-1/2 BC .

The thickness of the material is the same as the original wheels on the cat.
OK.....Sooooooooooooooooo...The unlikely supplier was HOME DEPOT.
12" SPOKE'D WHEELS FOR $20 EACH....Hot Damn....
I can get the custom centers I designed a while back for $40 each....
So $60 per wheel.

The other outfit wants $29 per wheel ring, $38 per center....Plus a hefty shipping cost.
Be near $100 per wheel.

So..Remove the centers on the wheels from HD and weld in my custom centers.

The one thing that adds complexity is the NEGATIVE offset on the original wheels....3/4" negative that has to be there so the tracks will run correctly.

Most standard wheels are Zero offset.

So...Got a couple wheels coming to make up a a pair of prototypes.....
The plan is to simply cut the centers at the triangle openings and leave the remainder of the ring. The ring is welded 100% and would be a tough slog to cut without compromising the wheels integrity.

I have the material coming to build a jig to align the center ring with the wheel at the correct offset to allow welding.....

Piccy shows the point of cut....the remaining ring can remain and will hurt nothing.

The new 3/8" center plate is ready to drill and countersink the lug stud holes....the locate and weld into the wheel.

There is a possibility of adding a piece of steel between the original ring ( spokes cut off) and the 5 spoke 3/8" center plate
My air reciprocating saw will make quick work of the spokes.
I am anxious to get the wheels in my paws and see wassssssup.
I had given thought to machining the center ring out....Way too much and no safe way to grab the wheels in the lathe (That I have anyway.....)
Some decent pics of the water cut centers.
A local shop did this one and they have the details on their machine for subsequent parts.
Adding the extra support might help.....
Sadly a blown tire will end up dinging up the wheels rims with the tire guides.
But the cost of the alloy wheels is outside my paygrade

The other piccy is one of the stock Thiokol wheels.

Bead area has been welded up in several places...some places more than once.
The rust is terrible too....JUNK...ALMOST ALL OF THEM.


----------



## HillBilt

I was thinking about the rim/valve stem issues you brought up on my thread, and now looking at the shape of that wheel you posted. Ever thought of using a rim stiffner? I re-centered a set of Hummer H1 double beadlock wheels for one of my rigs and the outside has just a weld on rim stiffner. I think a set of stiffners might help with the rim damage and protect the valve stem. Just a thought. Hes a photo of said stiffners


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Thanks for bringing that up.

Yes...the though has crossed my mind.
Nobody I has found so far offers these for the diminutive little 12" wheels.
Getting the rings cut with water blast would be sweet.
Local shop charges me $40 per piece for the snowflake wheel center in my piccy in 3/8" plate

The issue is when the tire goes flat and the tire guides get after the rim.....the edges of the rim just get beat to Rat Crap
Not just the valve stem. the actual rim gets dented up.
I am not sure that a weld on ring is going to fix the problem.

The alloy wheels like whats up front (Many Thiokols can be seen with the alloy wheel/hub combo in all 10 positions) have a wide flat face that is shaped such that if there is a tire guide strike the wheels seem to shrug it off pretty well.
The steel wheels seem to get hit directly on the edge of the lip area.
Several of mine are just well dented up..

Big huge dents.

I think the solution is keeping the tires from going flat... ??????

I would love a full set of the spoke'd aluminum wheels....but my pay grade will not deal with the cost..

The one downside to the wheel/hub combo is the extra work and tools needed to change the beast in the field.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Weather been nasty....Leaves a lot of time to look for parts needed and figure stuff out and get more engineering done.
Wheels coming....be here this coming Friday.
Have been casually looking for a power steering pump that fits the 305 Chevy and hugs the block.

Have had a want ad running on Craig's list looking for such
Yesterday a fella called up with a pile of GM pumps and one had the perfect brackets to gitterdone.

We are meeting here in about an hour to do the deed.

This will solve the biggest part of the issue with operating the Steering cylinders.

I abandoned the air idea for several reasons.....Mostly due to the issue with finding an air pump small enough and designed for 100% duty cycle that will fit in the cat.
The PS pump will be a snap to control with a couple electric valves.....

A Pressure relief valve, and the two control valves and some good Hydraulic hose.
Possibly a few other goodies....but all simple and easy to find.

This brings up the service brakes.

The steering brakes will be similar in operation to what the 2100 had originally...ON OR OFF

Decided to go with outboard disc brakes at each sprocket.

Found a simple disc brake adapter bracket that can be adapter to with with S10 calipers and rotors.

The brake booster and pedal in the cab will run it well.
Simple and real inexpensive.

Slowly solving the issues ass time goes by.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Good score yesterday.
Picked up a great power steering pump and it was attached to a hydroboost unit.
Came from a 1 ton Chevy with a 350.....
The pump has to return lines which will be quite nice for the FrankenCat as there needs to be two oil return lines back to the tank.
One from the steering cylinders and one back from the loop circuit through the cooler..

The bracket was not suitable so we hit the U PULLIT this afternoon and found a complete pump, brackets and the works.
Nice to get all the bolts and such too.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Weather sucks and with the holiday upon us.....Arrrrrrrgh

Finally got over my funk and headed downstairs to the shop.
Grabbed the steel tube for the new front axle bushing brackets and tossed it in the saw.

Got the inner and outer tubes cut to length..
Next they go to the lathe to get the ends faced off, the bore cleaned up at 3"  (2-7/8" rough now) and the ends bored for the seals to press in.
The plan is to have the 3" UHMW be able to "just tap in"  Two drilled and tapped holes in  the side of the tube will have 1/2" brass bolts threaded in through the UHMW bushing to retain the bushing (Bolts will be 1/16" to 1/8"  from the shaft surface)

This plan will allow easy replacement of the bushings at a time in the future when/if they need replacing......

I will get some pics when the tools hit the tubing and things look like Cat parts...


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Good things happening.
I got the new front axle pivot tubes in the lathe this morning and machined them for length and then bored them for the UHMW tube to just slip inside...Maybe with a bit of tapping from the Orange dead blow club.

The bushings will be retained in the housings with a couple 1/2" brass bolts that thread through the tube and UHMW
The brass bolts will be short enough that they won't hit the shaft....and even if the bushings wear some the bras will not hurt the shaft.....
Got some new carbide inserts for the boring bar....OH BOY...THESE ARE SWEET.....The overseas bars are fine....but the carbide inserts are rat crap....

A few pics
The lathe is running...not just sloppy picture taking ....

I need to bore each end of the tubes for the seals now.....then they will be ready to weld on the mounting plates..

I need to get the old front axle out of thew cat and remove the adjuster brackets so I can design the new ones.

Fun fun fun


----------



## Snowy Rivers

More machine work done today. Got the seal counter bores done on each end of the new axle pivot tubes.
These went well.
Welded steel heavy wall pipe is not bad to work with....just does not machine as nice as some materials though....

Goodies showed up today.
I found some very nice ready made disc brake caliper brackets at a hot rod outfit.

They  bolt onto the axle tube and the once things are all hunky dory you simple weld in a couple spots to anchor them.
So...these will actually fasten to an outboard pivot tube the has a couple bearings that idle in the adapter that bolts to the sprocket....
There will be a reaction arm that will fasten to the cat frame to handle the braking torque transmitted by the caliper to the bracket.   Having the foot operated caliper brakes on the outside should make for gentle smooth stops....
With the full on or off controls on the steering bands, braking would likely be ugly....

These will be sweet on the outboard disc brakes.

The new brackets allow the "Metric" calipers (S10 fronts) to slip right in and go to work.

A simple adapter bolted to the track sprockets will allow the stock S10 brake disc to fit right up.

Pretty happy at not having to design and build the caliper brackets.  $18 each.....Helluva deal...

The little wheels I ordered showed up today too.

Got them bad boys outta the box and to my delight they are welded in 4 places .  Thought about cutting the welds in the lathe....but the "Grab" in the chuck was sketchy at best....Decided against it....too much danger of a bad wreck...

Cut the wheel center welds with the die grinder and a cutoff wheel.

A swat with a 5 pound club and the center was out.

Measured the thickness of the wheel material.....1/8" thick rim and 1/8" center
The stock wheels on the cat are about the same....After the rust gets scraped off....Yeah buddy

Several wheels I looked at were spec'd at .097" thick material....so the .125" is a good thing.

NOW....THE NEW 3/8" THICK "SNOFLAKE" CENTERS ARE GONNA BE TOUGH TO BEAT....They are not gonna bend like the stock stuff does.
5 welds (Both sides of the plate)

If these go away something is not going as planned.....

I ordered the 4 hole wheels as they were cheaper, and the material is the same....but 5 hole ones came...oh well.

Some pics


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Got a chance today to head to the bone yard....Snooped up a set of the proper Disc brake calipers and rotors for the rear of the cat.

So we find a 96 S10 Blazer with calipers and rotors that looks nearly fresh.
10 minutes and them bad boys are on the ground....Into my 5 gallon bucket and heading to the check out.

Two rotors, calipers and the pads are not light to pack about a quarter mile up hill back to the office...Plus the tool bag..

Get home and try assembling the new brackets.

Wellllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll......Some tweaking was needed to get the anchor pins to thread into the new brackets.
Squeezed the bracket in the vise a tiny bit and thing were sweet.

Then it became obvious that things were a tad askew .

Dug through the info on the caliper brackets and in very tiny print it says use 11-3/4" rotors.
The ad online did not mention this tid bit.

So the nice 10-1/2" rotors will not work.....Huh....You betcha they will.
Brackets will get shortened a bit and the stock S10 Blazer rotors will do fine.
Been nice if they had been a tad more obvious with the requirements.....

This is why a lathe, mill and a welder are so stinking handy....if it don't fit....Hold my beer....watch this.....IT WILL WHEN I'M DONE WITH IT......
Snow cat parts are like hot rod stuff....some modifications are necessary for proper fit...

I want to keep with very easy to find parts.......The 11-3/4" rotors that work with the small metric caliper are not one thats gonna be found at the corner parts house easily......
The 10-1/2" rotors will be quite adequate to reign in the FrankenCat......
Gonna be great to have a separate braking system that is stand alone....
I will get more pics as soon as possible.

With the bad weather these little bits and pieces will keep me in stuff to fool with until things get such that being outside is a bunch more fun....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Let the modifications begin.
Did some measuring this morning and made shopping list.
I needed to make a "Tool" to fit into the disc brake rotors pilot bore and be able to secure it solid.
Once the tool was secure the New caliper bracket could be located....marked and cut.

The bracket needed to be shortened about 3/4" to allow the 10-1/2" rotors to be used.

The bracket is supposed to be used with a 11-3/4" rotor.

These are a hard one to source....and not a local parts house dash in and grab one thing.

Got the pilot shaft machined to just fit in the rotor....Drilled it full length and then needed a way to secure it to the rotor so the assembly can be lined up and welded....AND KEEP THINGS STRAIGHT.

I had a left over style 30 brake chamber rod/piston on the shelf and it was a perfect fit to act as a clamp to hold the "Tool" in solid.

With the new bracket cut and finished up.....just a matter of getting the slide bolts and the new bracket arms in position and then sliding the lower portion up and behind the arms.

All fit and two little aluminum angle pieces 1/8" thick slipped in to position the caliper correctly and locate the pads at the top of the rotor..

A couple picks of the other new one that still needs cutting.

The assembly ready to weld.

The completed assembly will clamp to the pivot arm that has two pilot bearings to allow the caliper assembly to remain stationary.
A short arm will connect from the pivot to the cat frame....and likely ride in a slot in a frame bracket....

****NOTE****
Once the caliper brackets are located and everything is hunky dory the brackets are skip welded....the clamp setup just allows things to be set up easily....

A piccy of what another  member did in a similar situation on his 2100.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

MORE PICS

The other guys disc brake setup.....Mine is a spin on the same idea....
I am excited to have a foot brake that does not use the diffy bands to stop with.

This will save the bands me thinks.......


----------



## Snowy Rivers

The new outboard brake brackets are all finished.....(Accept for paint...and that can come after the brackets are welded to the pivot tubes)

Got after this little project this morning and carefully aligned the pieces of the brackets with the calipers aired up to keep everything clamped correctly and then got the assembly outside and welded the parts.

Keeping things from moving while welding can be a challenge.
Tacked things up well and swapped sides with the welding until it was done.

Let things cool and bolted the parts back together.

Yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssss.....about as good as one can expect..

Once the caliper assemblies go onto the cat a new set of pads will be installed to allow setting the brackets such that there is a little bit of slack with the new pad in place and the pistons fully collapsed......

A guess at best...but as long as new pads can slip in...WE'RE GOLDEN.

Glad to have this little project done.......

Still need to fabricate and machine the adapters to bolt the rotors to the Sprockets though.

Gotta check out the sizes of things and and decide exactly what materials will work.

I need to figure out the size bearings needed to pilot the pivot tube into the adapter......

All in good time...


----------



## HillBilt

Nicely done. Whats the plans for powering the brakes, manual or power assisted? 
Also the photo you have of the "other guys setup" any feedback on how well it works? I can tell ya we do alot of snow wheeling with our trucks up here and when the wheels pack full of snow brakes suck real bad. I realize they are "secondary" brakes but curious as to how well they actually work when packed full of snow trying to stop a huge track on a heavy machine, and the S10 calipers your using are significantly smaller than the other guys dual piston caliper setup which looks like a Ford SD caliper? its 1ton for sure and a dually rear disc. I think its a great idea like you said, save a lot of wear on the bands if it works.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Thanks for the compliments.

Gonna go with a single system mid 60's era GM 1" bore master cylinder on the S10 vacuum booster.
The S10 BLAZER is no 7000# beast, but the cat goes 15 MPH max and the Blazer is gonna be able to do way faster....

From what I heard about the other guys 2100 van cat was that it got away from him coming down a steep grade and he grabbed the steering levers and things got hinky...Damned near tossed it off a cliff.
Serious need of fresh shorts......
The 2100 originally had a foot brake in the hydraulic system to run both bands at the same time for stopping.
I assume that had been removed as has mine.

The hydraulic power controls to the bands are great, but the ON / OFF does not give any really good brake control.

The smaller cats like a Spryte with the hand levers are a different story.

I am gonna go with aggressive pads and that should be enough to provide a reliable way to anchor the beast.

Grab the tranny shifter and roll it down into the gears....then use the brakes if need be.

I did not hear anything bad about the other guys setup....

Yes...I agree..snow may cause some issues.

Back in the day I had a 1976 Ford highboy 4x4 and used to haul the sleds into the hills...I had that thing into deep snow a lot and never really had any issues with it....

Brake pad composition may be the key...I don't know.....

Ceramics are great when dealing with heat.....Metalics are good with high heat...

I have not found an really good data on SNOW AND COLD....

We shall see.
They do make Kevlar pads....they are supposed to be great stuff

The brakes on that other cat had GMC 3500 dually rotors and calipers.

I did the research and am pretty sure on that..
The cost for the calipers and rotors is pretty heady $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
The two calipers, rotors and the new brackets set me back $114 total
Brackets were $36 for the pair and the used S10 rotors and calipers were $78

Snow cats are like boats....they don't coast much.....

Do I know exactly how this will work ??? NO....But we will be the first to find out.  
At least the calipers and rotors were meant to work together...

My big worry was having something that will help stop it in the event the engine quits.
I'm running the band steering cylinders off the power steering pump through a pressure regulator set at 400 PSI 
This is Thiokol specs for the 2100

Should be interesting


----------



## Snowy Rivers

NOT EVEN SNOW CAT RELATED......BUTTTT I discovered this little ditty that is close by here.
Not a prank...But instead the idea of a lumber company higher up and their Forester.
Located to the south of HWY 18 near Willamina Or. 




Enjoy


----------



## HillBilt

Snowy Rivers said:


> Thanks for the compliments.
> 
> Gonna go with a single system mid 60's era GM 1" bore master cylinder on the S10 vacuum booster.
> The S10 BLAZER is no 7000# beast, but the cat goes 15 MPH max and the Blazer is gonna be able to do way faster....



You are 100% correct. I tend to forget that cats go slow, coming from a go fast/racing mentality I'm sure the brakes will be adequate. Unless you have the parts already, should take a look at a hydroboost system from a typical 80s chevy diesel pick up might be a bit easier to package without the big vacuum booster. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with!


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Yeah buddy
We think about 5-7 K beasts traveling like a bat outta hell and needing to stop in less than a mile and a half.

The slow nature plus the fact that these tracked rigs do not roll easy either......
I have the original brake booster on the S10 cab that it came with.  The booster on the rig is fairly compact too.

The hydroboost systems are way cool, but I think that basically tossing the vacuum booster that's there would likely not gain much overall benefit to things.
The Astro vans had a hydrobooster setup that are compact to fit in the cramped nose of the Weeee little vans...
For now all I need to get things going is the single system master cylinder and the lines/hoses to plumb it in with.

The plan is to use small box tubing and frame in the area just ahead of the cowl on the cab....then sheet it with aluminum tread plate.
Then add an ANTEATER nose that tilts forward.
Easy access to things


----------



## DAVENET

Step 2:


----------



## Snowy Rivers

SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET..
That's the cat'sass


----------



## PJL

I see another Snowy change order coming up.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Well....lets not take it that far .
The little tag along is way cool....but I really don't have a use for a pup trailer. 

I THINK (Subjective) that the basics are pretty well coming together now, and as far as any major CHANGE ORDERS go I hope things can continue to move along on the current direction and not need any major changes
The Cab from the S10 and the pickup box are pretty well chiseled in stone now.
This plan makes repairs and access easy......
The hydraulic steering and losing the air system just makes good sense....
As long as we stay with the small block Chevy and the TH350 tranny anything can pretty much work.

The one thing that is still sitting in the wings though is the idea of replacing the little 305 with a small block 400.
The 305 will be fine and get things up and running so the package can be wrung out and bugs worked through.
Do I need a 400....NO  but it's an I want.
I had originally gave thought to using a 6.2 Diesel....Just too big...too heavy....
The 6.2 fully dressed is about 700lbs and the small block is about 450lb (The 391 Ford weighed 650)
The weight reduction will save the front axle some extra beating..

I would like to fit whatever SBC that ends up in the package with a large capacity gated oil pan that can handle steep up and down grades without oil starvation.

The 391 Ford that was in the 2100 had a deep sump pan to maintain good oil reserves to the pump
I am removing the big sump in the tub that the pan fit in...Gonna clean up the belly of the beast.
Come summer the power pack will come back out to finish welding the mounts and then clean up the bottom of the tub.

That includes fitting a cover plate over a big hole in the belly under the tranny that was cut by others at some time.
At least the plate came with the cat....
Back in my boat racing day we used a wide pan with gates that allowed oil to flow back to the pump but not the other way.
The gates also prevented tight turns at speed from tossing oil away from the pump.
For now the stock chevy pan will gitterdone.


The venerable mouse motor is so cheap and so easy to get anything to fit.
There is probably an adapter kit to bolt a mouse motor to a mail box....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Just got off the phone with the outfit that water cut the snowflake centers for the new cat wheels.
I made a CHANGE ORDER 
The new wheels are a tad smaller in the center than what I had originally expected and the finish is so clean that I am having the center bore on the part opened up to just a few thou over 4 inches.

I will be able to toss the part in the lathe and machine off less than 3/16" and then bring the fit up to where the centers will just tap into the wheel.

This will make life far easier.

I have a 5 on 5-1/2 heavy center coming from the derby shop to become my JIG to locate the lug holes.

Once I get the new sample piece then we can do a bit of machining and things should fall into place and wheels can be made fairly quick.

I ordered 4 more wheels from the depot the other day.....

These heavy center wheels should be rugged as all get out.

I am excited to get this critter a reality and things ready to start making 8 wheels and maybe 10.

If this works out well...If anyone needs wheels for there Thiokol...let me know and I can get the centers cut and you can weld them into wheel blanks.

At $20 each for the 12" wheels almost like Christmas.....


----------



## HillBilt

Snowy Rivers said:


> Well....lets not take it that far .
> The little tag along is way cool....but I really don't have a use for a pup trailer.
> 
> I THINK (Subjective) that the basics are pretty well coming together now, and as far as any major CHANGE ORDERS go I hope things can continue to move along on the current direction and not need any major changes
> The Cab from the S10 and the pickup box are pretty well chiseled in stone now.
> This plan makes repairs and access easy......
> The hydraulic steering and losing the air system just makes good sense....
> As long as we stay with the small block Chevy and the TH350 tranny anything can pretty much work.
> 
> The one thing that is still sitting in the wings though is the idea of replacing the little 305 with a small block 400.
> The 305 will be fine and get things up and running so the package can be wrung out and bugs worked through.
> Do I need a 400....NO  but it's an I want.
> I had originally gave thought to using a 6.2 Diesel....Just too big...too heavy....
> The 6.2 fully dressed is about 700lbs and the small block is about 450lb (The 391 Ford weighed 650)
> The weight reduction will save the front axle some extra beating..
> 
> I would like to fit whatever SBC that ends up in the package with a large capacity gated oil pan that can handle steep up and down grades without oil starvation.
> 
> The 391 Ford that was in the 2100 had a deep sump pan to maintain good oil reserves to the pump
> I am removing the big sump in the tub that the pan fit in...Gonna clean up the belly of the beast.
> Come summer the power pack will come back out to finish welding the mounts and then clean up the bottom of the tub.
> 
> That includes fitting a cover plate over a big hole in the belly under the tranny that was cut by others at some time.
> At least the plate came with the cat....
> Back in my boat racing day we used a wide pan with gates that allowed oil to flow back to the pump but not the other way.
> The gates also prevented tight turns at speed from tossing oil away from the pump.
> For now the stock chevy pan will gitterdone.
> 
> 
> The venerable mouse motor is so cheap and so easy to get anything to fit.
> There is probably an adapter kit to bolt a mouse motor to a mail box....



My 2 cents-Honestly I would avoid the 400, they lack center cooling ports between cylinders 3/5 and 4/7 and are prone to over heating. I would go with a newer LS based engine, 6.0/5.3/4.8. They're EFI, lighter, make more power and have a better oiling/pickup system. Same bellhousing bolt pattern, so your TH350 will bolt right up and can be found in the junk yard everywhere for cheap, especially a 5.3 or 4.8.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Yessssss
The 400 will overheat if you work them hard in extreme weather.
I had a 400 in a GMC 3/4 ton 4x4 
Never had an issue with heating though.
The thing was a turd though. When it comes to power it is not much when you need stump pulling ooooomph

Actually for this cruising cat I don't think it will really take a lot of power to get it down the trail....especially without the 14 foot blade up front.
Even though I own an aluminum 5.3 in an 07 Avy I am not a fan of the LS.
They can be converted to a Carburetor fueling and a distributor kit is available.
Just really happy with the old school Q jet and a large cap HEI ignition..
The Avy we have is the E85 Flex fuel beast with the AFM  (4 CYL shut down)
Just not a real fan of the electronic nightmares.....The old HEI was a very simple system.....

Not to be a total negative on the LS....they are built real well. Y block with cross bolted mains....pretty good little critter....I am just an old Luddite I guess....
I wanted a big block in the cat.....no room.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Another thought about swapping to an LS at this juncture.
Everything is already set up to work with the GEN 1 small block.....Changing now would pretty much be a complete start over.
The exhaust would need to be reworked as well as a lot of other stuff.

I think staying with the Gen 1 family will be a better option as far as $$$$$ outlay.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Got the one new wheel center out and in the lathe this morning.......Cut the OD of the center plate to fit the wheel rim.
This was the first center I had water cut....and I spec'd it a tad too big....BIG TAD TOO BIG

Chewed it down to size so it fits the wheel ring.

Then tossed it in the mill and bored the center out to 4.030" 
The next time these will have the center water cut to size and the OD at 9-7/8" so it only needs to be trimmed a little to tap into the wheels.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Well now.
I shot a video yesterday while machining the new wheel center bore.
This morningg it took an update on the YOUTUBE APP  and then beating on it to figure out how the "New improved" version works.

We now have it online.
Nothing fancy...just the facts.





The noise you hear after I shut the mill off is the Rotophase running.  (3 phase power gizmo to the left on the floor)


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Well.....SOME UNEXPECTED GOOD NEWS
Got a text from a local fellow who has some THIOKOL ALLOY WHEELS AND SOME TWO PIECE STEEL WHEELS.

Looks like these may be coming my way soon.
The two piece wheels if I remember correctly were an optional choice on the 2100
My parts book shows the Alloys as listed as a first choice for the fronts, then the steel two piece for axle 2 to 5 with a "standard steel wheel" also available.

If all goes well and this deal falls into place I will likely use the alloys on axle 1 and 5 and then decide on what to do on the center wheels.

There are 4 two pieces wheels and then the new ones I am fabricating.

WE shall see how this comes together.

Possibly I will finish up my new wheels and use them on the axle 2 3 4
This little scenario is making me a happy camper.....

Getting tires and wheels back on the FrankenCat is gonna be a great step in the right direction.
The dented up wheels and ragged tires currently on the old girl are a real sore sight.
I recently picked up a bucket of new lug nuts to replace all the originals.

Some of the old stuff are 3/4" size and some are 13/16" size

Gawd. then I discovered that some clown replaced the studs on one hub with 9/16" studs
Arrrrrrrrgh
I picked up a fresh hub to replace that mess.

There may be studs with 1/2-20 threads and a bigger knurled shank
All new bearings are sitting on the shelf....so things can move ahead on this front.


----------



## PJL

Any chance the wheels from that burnt 3700 fit the Frankencat?


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Sure could
Problem is 1000 plus miles between me and it.


----------



## PJL

Yeah there is that...

And UPS wants money to drop them off at your door.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

The local fella here has some usable stuff and we will likely do some trading on the stuff.

That sort of stuff gets spendy to ship.....I bought 20 track guides from Northern Cal and the came USPS FLAT RATE
2 boxes that were all chewed to rat crap by the time they got here.
I am not much into long road trips now...With Covid it's a pain to get food and lodging.
Sleep in the rig and eat at Mac's  Arrrrrrgh

Really a shame to see that 3700 go up in smoke.
All the fires this year have been such a tragic mess.
We had fires around us back in Sept. 
That was the worst and closest we have ever had fires close to us here at the ranch


----------



## Snowy Rivers

More goodies here.

The 5 x 5-1/2" pattern ring showed up today.
This bad boy will allow me to get a nice accurate set of holes in the new center plates.
The outfit that is cutting the center plates on the water jet called up and the revised piece is ready.

MONDAY.....we will get it and see where we go.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

The trade on the wheels deal came through.

Fella brought two alloys and four of the two piece rims over today.....

I sent him home with the Blade and all the stuff I had with it (Cylinders, brackets and mounts) the emergency hydraulic pump, main hydraulic pump and the original drive shaft from the 2100.

Now he is happy, I'm happy and I don't have to mow around the blade stuff sitting in the grass come spring.

With what I have now the plan is looking like the Factory alloys will go on the front and rear axles and then maybe I will build 6 of the "Snowflake" wheels with my centers and use them in the center 3 axles.
The two piece factory rims are nice...just wish I had more of them.
Not enough of any one style...so its gonna be a cat of many different wheels....

Maybe paint them all different colors too......OMG.


----------



## PJL

No 2 parts alike.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Maybe .....

I am thinking....NEAT, but with a Rat Rod kind of slant to things.

The entire FRANKENCAT  idea is sort of like that old Johnny Cash song about his buddies car of many parts that he rolled out of the car plant in his motor home.
Indeed this cat is certainly looking like it.

Maybe I need a couple Tucker parts and maybe some Bombardier stuff too.. 
So far we have Thiokol, Chevy, Ford and a host of home spun parts.

Ah yessssss
With the addition of all the wheels things are starting to look much better.
One of the jobs now is going to be carving the old tires off the alloy wheels......

That looks like a pain in the butt to me...

Sawzall and a bit of patience.
The alloys are fitted with the smooth Falline tires and they are filled with foam....the tires are literally shredded from time and hard use but were still working..but they need to be replaced......

Function...function...function.........


----------



## PJL

Needs something from Chrysler and toss in some random metric hardware just to make it fun.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

HAAAAAAAAAAAA.
No worries.

As far as metric goes.....I am well equipped with metric tools.

I hated it back in the 80's when GM started introducing metric fasteners on their rigs..../and it was a mixture of both.
They even had some metric threaded fasteners that had SAE heads on them.

Some engines were all metric EXCEPT the bell housing bolt holes were 3/8"-16 (Standard course thread)

A 10 mm would sort of work but was trouble if mixed in.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Stopped off at the Steel shop and picked up the revised "Snowflake" wheel center (The second one to be cut)
The modifications turned out to be quite nice.

These mods are going to make finishing the part a lot easier.....AS IN MUCH LESS MACHINE TIME FINISHING THE PART.

The next step is to go ahead and finish up the jig to drill the lug stud holes and the tool to locate the center plate in the wheel for welding.
The factory wheels on the Thiokol cats (At least the Spryte and the 2100 and possibly the 3700) have a 3/4" negative offset 

The wheels actual center is offset towards the outside from the actual point of contact between the wheel and the hub flange.
Nearly all trailer wheels are 0 offset (Right on the C/L)

4 more wheels ordered....should be here soon.

Depending on how I feel about things....at the present I am thinking seriously of using the stock alloy wheel/hub units on the front and rear axles and the new custom ones on the center 3 on each side.

At least this will make things look like maybe some thought was given to the lashup...

We'll see how it all shakes out....

Moving ahead


----------



## Snowy Rivers

The second order of 12" wheels showed up....Depot sent me a message and those bad boys are sitting in the shop now.
Not much else happening the past few days.
With the holidays just around the corner time seems to be consumed by so many other things.

Ahhhh.
Almost forgot.
The 60 degree countersink to finish the lug stud holes arrived.

A countersink is not a countersink.

Flat head bolts use an 82 degree tool
Lug nuts are USUALLY 60 degree....but the agricultural hubs use 45 degree nuts
The Thiokol used the 60 degree nuts.
So....the new hubs I have installed on the rig came with 45 degree nuts.

No worries.

If any of you order up the Ag hubs (exact match for the Spryte and 2100) be aware that the lug nuts are 45 degree tapers and are not suitable for use with the Thiokol wheels.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

I hope everyone had a wonderful "Catish" Christmas......

Things got sideways here back earlier this month and I spent a couple weeks mostly having to fool with my internet service.....Our Choices are cellular and satellite out here at the ranch.

After some very severe cases of "Phone rage" I finally stuck a fork in Verizon and signed on with AT&T
All fixed now.

The FrankenCat is back up on the front burner again......
With the weather keeping me pretty much inside, things like the new wheels are in the forefront at this time.

I will get back to work on the new wheel centers now.
The tooling is all here now to do the lug stud holes....so they can be drilled and countersunk 

I will get some pics  posted as soon as possible.

With the new year holiday coming at us fast.

Be safe and "GOOD CATTIN" ALL..


----------



## Snowy Rivers

OK
Weather is somewhat decent.
Got after the lug hole jig....got that done and the center "Snoflake" drilled and countersunk for the lug nuts

I drilled the holes at 17/32" and the plate slid right onto the hub/lug studs.

Countersunk the holes for the nut to fit in.

I am very happy with the results....

The next thing is to finish the JIG that sets the snoflake into the wheel for welding.

A bit of machining and a couple pieces of 3/4" square stock welded to the jig.

The jig uses the outer edge of the wheel to register from.

The factory wheels are 1-1/4" from the face that contacts the hub.

The new wheels are 4" wide instead of 3" so added 1/2" to the jig.

This will set the center plate at 1-3/4" from the outer lip to the center plate.

Close enough for the crowd I run with.....

Plus or minus 1/16" and nobody gonna care.......

The plan is to get the positioning jig finished and the wheel center tack welded in and see how it all looks and how true it actually runs......
Once this first wheel is complete more can follow really easy......


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Weather was good.
Got after that jigs/fixtures to finish the wheel.

The locating fixture was a repurposed wheel offset setup from the jalopy shop.
I tossed it in the lathe and trued up the back face and the trimmed it to 1-3/4" thickness and welded the bars on.
Bolted the jig to the Snowflake
Tacked the Snowflake in place and then tried it on the hub.
The unit runs very nice. Tiny bit of overall  run out radially. NONE AXIALLY
I am not totally sure the wheels are perfect before I got hold of them...They may have a tiny run out ....no worries.
A good deal for fresh wheels.......at an affordable price.

All welded up and ready for a clean up and some paint......

Not sure on color....likely go with a silver gray to look good with the 4 alloys.

Checked the dims from the cat tub to the center of the tires.....New wheel is spot on with the original location.
Gotta love it when a plan comes together....


----------



## Bobcatbob

Nice jig!  Unless you’re really moving, a small radial runout should have no impact.  Welds look great (a skill I have yet to master).


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Thank you Bob
I am pretty sure that these wheels may have/have had a slight bit of wiggle from the factory.... I am talking just enough to see if you hold a solid marker up close to the rim and spin it slowly ....and then the run out is is a couple places and not 180 degrees out, making me suspicious that the wheels may not be perfect...
Whatcha spect for a $20 wheel from across the pond  (Not China though.....South Korea)

No wobble back and forth (In and out )

At 10-15 mph the RPM is just way too slow to ever cause issues....even if they ran out 1/4" I doubt you could notice it.

Not like hitting the slab with your Caddy having a wheel out of round and running 80 mph...

The welding thing.   Yeah..Back in the day...before the eyes got old and the need for progressive lenses came along I had a lot better looking welds.... but they will hold things together good..

Some folks can make welds look like they came from a box and you stuck them on ..... A steady hand and good sharp well focused eyes helps a bunch.

My hat is off to the folks that make welds look like a "Stack of dimes"     

Preparation is a big chunk of getting great looking welds.
Clean bare metal with no paint, dirt, rust or grease on the surface to be welded.

If you're using a mig welder.... Adjustments on the machine are critical and if you are working outside....old ma wind come around and the gas shield goes away. phhhhhht = ugly welds

I use 75/25 gas   (75% argon...25% Co2)
Buying run of the mill gas cylinders from the local "mom and pop" Welding store can be a crap shoot....Are the contents of the cylinders certified to meet specs ???? If the mix is sloppy the gases can stratify and the argon comes off first and then a much higher ratio of Co2 comes off later as the content is used up.
Straight Co2 does not make as nice of a weld.
Pure Co2 is cheap..... 
Pure Argon is a tad spendy for run of the mill welding.

Now if you are doing stuff that has to meet very high specs ....different story.

I have run the gamut from the old AC stick welders to the fancy Migs with all the bells and whistles ...I never did anything that had to be certified.... Just mill machinery for making lumber.

I am excited to have the first wheel basically finished....Still needs the valve stem hole enlarged a bit for the tubes....
I'll hit that with a bridge reamer and we'll be good to go....

I do plan to add a stem guard to keep the tire guides from knocking off the Valve stems.....

Just a thought.

If you are running Co2 gas with a Mig (Wire feed) switch to 75/25

Co2 causes a lot more spatter than the 75/25 
Spraying parts with the Anti spatter  (Bomb can) is a big help keeping the "Dill berries" off the parts, and saves a lot of extra clean up time....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Sitting here watching the rain come down and listen to the wind howl.....

With the Wheel engineering handled and the plan fully implemented to the point that more wheels can easily be made.....my attention has turned back to the front axle suspension.

The plan is pretty well in place...other than having a good (SIMPLE) device to control the flex on the axle.

Been thinking about an air bag.... This would be sweet..BUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT...An air bag is vulnerable and should be considered a "consumable" especially on the front axle.

Mostly the front axle needs to be flexible enough to take the sharp impact loading off the chassis.....The factory torsion axles were rated at 2500 LB if I remember correctly.

The spindle arm is a fair bit shorter than the arms on Axles 2 ------> 5
I have been thinking seriously on using a Timbre rubber spring mounted in a bracket on the frame that the new front axle reaction arm can push against.
Adjustable at assembly to get the axle located correctly with the chassis flat and a normal load on the road wheels.

Timbren "TORTUN4" units are rated at 6000# max and should be quite satisfactory to do the job.   Durable and easily replaced if need be.

Looking at the original Torsion axle that I cut apart the internals can be seen well.
This axle was junk. The Rubber on the one corner had disintegrated and the internal shaft had shifted....Wear can be seen in the steel tube as to the shaft itself.

The plastic split bushing that was installed to help support the assembly is badly worn.

I can't say which went first....the bushing or the rubber....The rubber up in the corner that is missing was just chewed up mush and fell out when I sawed the tube off to salvage the Spindle arm.....


So.....If you have an axle that the bushing is badly worn and things have shifted.....What this picture shows is pretty much what's in there..
Sadly replacing the components is an issue.......
Hence my decision to go another route.......


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Got after the second wheel in the new series.
The water jet cutter gave us a perfect center hole in the plate at 4.015".....
So all that is needed is to trim the OD of the plate so it just taps into the rim.

From here on the centers will all be the same.....The first one was the prototype...and I allowed way too much material to bore out of the center as well as too much on the OD as well.

We made adjustments to the drawing and they changed the dims in the data going to the water jet.

Now the center hole is perfect...My original ended up at 4.020" and that is fine...but getting the rest to a standard size that I do not need to machine will be sweet.

The hubs have a pilot that is 4"....so a few thou clearance is perfect.

The rain had been nasty today...but got a break for about an hour earlier and decided to gitterdone.
Cut the factory center out and smoothed up things....Did the calculations and got the numbers so the OD of the snowflake can be cut.
2.8625" from the outer edge of the pilot hole to the OD of the snowflake....then this leave a tiny tiny bit to trim and get the rim to just tap onto the snowflake.

From now on these wheels will be very easy to do the rework on.

The centers will be identical and the entire process will be pretty much a slam dunk.

Cut the 4 welds loose
Knock out the old centers
Clean up the weld area
Machine the Snowflake OD
Transfer the lug stud holes
Drill and countersink the holes
Bolt the Snowflake to the alignment jig and fit to the wheel.
Weld the snowflake into the rim

DONE DEAL.....PAINT...

On a nice day these bad boys should be very easy to knock out quickly.

I think on Monday I will call the steel outfit and have them cut the last 4....  this will make 6 wheels of this type
Later on I think I will have a couple extras cut and then toss them on the shelf for spares.
Very pleased that this idea is working out well.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Weather was decent (Subjective term) and I dragged the box of 4 more wheels out of the truck and went after knocking the centers out.

Takes about 5 minutes to cut the welds loose and the cutoff wheel is good for two wheels before it is too small to gitterdone....
I had cut the second wheel the other day....and had 1 full disc and the last half of the first one left
So three down & one to go
Need to pick up more discs tomorrow.

But got something done.

The dims on the Snowflake from OD of the pilot hole to the OD of the Snowflake I said was to be 2.8625"
I got the Snowflake close and then did trial fits to get a "TAP" fit into the wheel.....
Came out to 2.858" when I could lightly tap things together.

SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET.

Tomorrow I will order the last 4 Snowflakes.....


----------



## BearGap

Beautiful work.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Dan....

Thank you for the compliment...

Finding these lovely little wheels so cheap just makes me all warm and fuzzy....

Truth is I would love to have a complete set of the factory alloy HUB/WHEEL combos like whats up front...

Sadly the budget will not permit it.

But....after some trading with our member "Thefatsquatch" I have two more alloys that can go on the rear axle.

The 6 wheels in the piccy are gonna go on the center 3 axles.

Stinking weather has been horrible the past week or so....work has been limited to NOT MUCH

We get a bit of nice weather I want to lay tools on the Alloy tire wheels and get the tires cut off of the wheel and things cleaned up....
The remaining 4    "Snowflake" centers are in the works and should be along soon.

When I spoke with Jay at Forest Grove Iron the other day I mentioned... "No hurry.....fit these in when you can can cut them from scrap pieces"

No sense in paying full bore on the steel just to get them quickly.....if he cuts them from scrap...$1 per pound.....
They end up about $37 each.....Mostly labor
The tariff on the water jet is rather $$$$$$$ per hour....but that machine did not come cheap...plus it needs to make $$$$ too.

The close tolerance that can be obtained makes parts so nice.....Very little machine work needed.......plus the cuts do not mess up carbide tooling like flame cut stuff...and there is zero warping due to heat.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Got a call from the steel shop.....The last 4 Snowflake wheel centers are done    

Gotta get over and grab those bad boys in the next day or so......

The next major move as soon as we get some weather that allows outside work is to yank the cab back off and yank the power pack out and finish welding the engine mounts.
Steam clean the entire package, replace the soft plugs in the engine, change the oil in the tranny and replace the pan gasket and filter.
There is also a non stock hole in the tub under the tranny that needs to be closed up.
I have the cover...gonna weld it in as it is worthless with the repower..

Then the subject of the engine oil pan comes into view.
The factory Ford 391 had a super deep sump and the cat tub has a boxed in area to allow the sump extension to fit.

The 305 Chevy has a tiny 4 quart pan......this is not gonna cut it for running off road and at weird angles.

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay TOO LITTLE OIL.

Figure while the engine/tranny is out to weld up the mounts.....a great time to remove that ugly sump extension (Been hacked by previous owners) and fit in a nice neat extension of about 4 inches deep and large enough to allow a baffled and gated 8 quart pan.

Found a nice "Road race" pan for the Small block Chevy that has a windage tray hinged trap doors and baffles to keep the oil at the pump inlet.

Uses a flexible dipstick tube that screws in on the LH kickout.....
This pan is gonna be plenty of oil for the application.

Possibly super steep nose down might be an issue....but I think this will work fine..

Far better than the 4 quart stock Camaro pan.....

Another thing...this pan will fit any small block with the dipstick notch in the LH side...be it a 305, 350, 400
These pans are not cheap....do not want to do it twice.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Got the 4 snowflake centers.
I think I will do 4 more and that will give me 10 total
Using the one piece alloy wheel/hubs front and back and snowflakes in the 6 center positions will leaver some spare wheels....


----------



## HillBilt

Great work on the wheels Snowy  On the oil pan, great choice, you could also run an accumulator for some added safety and piece of mind. It's also something you could add in later if you run into oil starvation/low pressure issues often.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Thanks Hillbilt

I ran an accumulator on my Blown big block Chevies in the drag boats....
I did more snooping and found a great deal (Shipping included to my door) for a KEVKO 1091RR pan that will fit any of the two piece rear main Chevy small blocks.
It does not have the dipstick notch in either side......
Has a kickout on both sides with a plug for a screw in dipstick tube.

7-1/2 quart in the pan 
For a play toy...should be fine.
Now is the time to get this stuff dealt with.......come good weather I want to get haulin on this beast....

A winch cat....not so much    
This pan is better suited than the other one I was looking at.
The fact that pan will fit pretty much any of the two piece rear main small blocks is good.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Got to thinking last night...(I KNOW....BAD IDEA)
Butttttttttttttttt....With the engine back out of the cat and getting some cleaning and then the bigger oil pan.....
Why not check the bearings in the bottom end, replace the rear main seal, timing chain and sprockets, timing cover seal/gasket.

I want to do the soft plugs in the block  and add a block heater as well..............
Having the pan off presents a great time to check things over.

The heads have been off....The block is blue, the heads black and I think the timing cover is orange.....

The heads are 305 heads according to the markings on them.

Would seem that a cursory peek would be a good idea.....
Definitely gonna Hot wash that bad boy....and paint it.. CAT YELLOW....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Sitting here watching the snow fall....(Not much....just on the edge of it.  about 500 feet higher would be in the snow real good.

Surfing Craig's list and and spotted a CHEVY SMALL BLOCK 400
Block, crank, heads, rods and pistons.
All apart.
Comes with a nice engine stand too....$50 for all of it.

I have been toying with the idea of a 400 SBC for the FrankenCat.
These engines were made from 1970 to 1980 ...so they are not that plentiful any more.
For the price I can't afford to say no.
I definitely can justify dragging it home and sticking it in the corner of the shop.....

If this works out I may hold off on putting the new pan on the 305....but instead just get the 305 cleaned up and use it as is to get the cat operational....

Build the 400 and put the new goodies on it instead.

I can go ahead and modify the belly of the cat to accept the new pan and then just move on with things as we are heading now.

I found some of the Flexco 550 belt lacing hinges on ebay yesterday.....Now we have enough to do both tracks plus spares...


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Snowing again....and no snowcat..../


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Still snooping to see what can be done with this Small block 400
Vortec 350 heads
Drill the 6 steam holes in the Vortec heads before sticking them on the 400 block
The Vortec heads have smaller chambers and will bump Compression ratio up to 9.5:1
Add a nice thumpy cam Maybe an L79 knockoff
Intakes for the Vortec heads (4 barrel Carburetor type) are easy to find.

This should make a very good engine for the old 2100 chassis.
Decent RPM and gobs of torque.....

FrankenMouse.....  
We got out first decent snow today.
About 4-5" out there.
Stuff was just snot.
We were out for the day and had a real beotch getting back up to the ranch.
Road all plugged up with little cars with street tires and all tied up in a knot.

Took about 2 hours to get what normally take 15 minutes to drive.

The Avy has street tires on it...but the 4x4 worked (I have never used it since we got the rig back in 2018) 
We normally use the Burb in the nasty weather.

But all home safe and sound.....fires all stoked up.....

Would be a sweet evening to be "Gone Cattin"   ah well.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

More goodies.

Just had a fella call me up in regards to an ad I placed in Craig's list

Trying to scare up a set of Vortec heads..

Dude offered me a complete 1998 Vortec 350 Fan to flex plate $150
Has all the serpentine equipment on the front too...PS pump.

Low mile...spun a bearing...

This find will definitely stock up a lot of needed parts for the build


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Took some much needed time WITHOUT SIDEWAYS RAIN to check out the Burb for this weekends Scrap iron run.
Tomorrow is pretty mundane.
A couple hours total across town to load up the 400 small block and all the junk with it.

Sunday is about 2 hours each way......to get the 98 vortec engine...
Aired up all the tires on the rig and the trailer.....all were a touch low.
Tossed in all the stuff one usually needs.
Ratchet straps, come along's, chain....a good sized tire to sit the engine on and a few tools....a tarp.

Really want to keep the rain out of it if at all possible.

Be way more fun if the weather was gonna be nice...but the goodies are available now and at a great price.

A lot of work to do before this iron will be needed.....but as they say..Get while the gettin is good.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Made the first haul yesterday.
All went well and was a very smooth transaction.
The 400 block is a tad rusty, but will clean up fine.
Crank is a boat anchor....rusty......

Got the con rods. ...they look to be quite usable.....
Going to bore the block .030" over.....

Today we head south to get the complete 98 Vortec engine.....
Lets hope things go smooth.

With these goodies there does exist a wide range of options as far as what can be tossed together


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Day two of "Scrapin" 
All back safe and sound.
All loaded up.....was a 6 hour trip from start to finish.

This may be a foundation for the Cat....we shall see.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Raining cats and dogs outside.....so decided to do some snooping and try to find a crank for the 400 SB

Called up the machine shop I know and asked him if he had any 400 cranks.. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO   LONG AGO THEY WENT AWAY.

I called up a rebuilder supply over in Troutdale...

Fella not only had one...he had a good one that has standard journals all the way.

A trip through the hot tank and a polish and it will be ready for prime time.

$125 for the crank....Just need a flex plate with the balance weight and we are set.

A bit of decent weather and I can get the block outside and clean it up......


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Snow coming tonight.
Still snooping about for a set of pistons for the 400.
May have a set of .030" overs on the rods from the same outfit I got the crank from.
Lets hope......
A good set of used slugs on rods would be sweet.

I am really looking forward to some decent weather to be able to get back onto the cat.

But at least some progress is being made.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Looking in the Cat yesterday between rain and shine.
Getting the idea in my head that after building the fresh engine for the cat that it would be a smart idea to run test it out of the chassis.
Only take an afternoon to toss together a test stand and be able to do a complete warm up and run test of the engine where we can see everything.
Be able to see any oil leaks or ????

Set the timing  and adjust the carburetor....yada yada yada.

Got an email from the outfit I bought the big oil pan from and they said they did not have any more.

Hmmmmm...an ebay ad and they don't have the item....
Buttttttttttt...They promptly refunded the $$$$$$

I ordered the same pan from another seller...Cost $20 more.....but it is marked as shipped and be here the 6th

Sooo
I am snooping for a chevy 4 spd bell housing to bolt the engine to.... I have a heavy set of casters left from another project and they came off of a car roll around plate....plenty heavy.

Real easy to set up a oil pressure gauge.....Ign switch and such......

Considering that the cab must come off the cat to get the engine out/in.....having the engine up to "TURN KEY STATUS" will be good insurance and possibly save "Blue air and tool throwing"  

Somebody was talking about a big Arctic blast coming......not conducive to working outside.


----------



## western auto

Snowy Rivers said:


> Looking in the Cat yesterday between rain and shine.
> Getting the idea in my head that after building the fresh engine for the cat that it would be a smart idea to run test it out of the chassis.
> Only take an afternoon to toss together a test stand and be able to do a complete warm up and run test of the engine where we can see everything.
> Be able to see any oil leaks or ????
> 
> Set the timing  and adjust the carburetor....yada yada yada.
> 
> Got an email from the outfit I bought the big oil pan from and they said they did not have any more.
> 
> Hmmmmm...an ebay ad and they don't have the item....
> Buttttttttttt...They promptly refunded the $$$$$$
> 
> I ordered the same pan from another seller...Cost $20 more.....but it is marked as shipped and be here the 6th
> 
> Sooo
> I am snooping for a chevy 4 spd bell housing to bolt the engine to.... I have a heavy set of casters left from another project and they came off of a car roll around plate....plenty heavy.
> 
> Real easy to set up a oil pressure gauge.....Ign switch and such......
> 
> Considering that the cab must come off the cat to get the engine out/in.....having the engine up to "TURN KEY STATUS" will be good insurance and possibly save "Blue air and tool throwing"
> 
> Somebody was talking about a big Arctic blast coming......not conducive to working outside.


personally id drop a junkyard ls motor in there with a fresh set if lifters/oil pump/rod bolts  and never look back.......anything earlier than a vortec seems to not like constant load/rpm without pushing oil out everywhere ....... at least in the boat world


----------



## Snowy Rivers

I ran boats for quite a few years.

If the PCV system is connected up they should not leak oil.
I am not an LS fan myself (Have one in the Avy)  Building this 400 with the Vortec heads and a few things should make a really nice power plant.

AS long as the crankcase runs a slight negative pressure there should not be issues.

We always ran Rat motors in our boats.......never an issue...least not with oil leaks.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Got some progress made today...
The "Promised good"  .030" OS pistons turned out to be junk.

Not worth wasting the time on.
Took the rods I got with the 400 to the machine shop to be resized.

I set the rods up and measured them....they are the standard Small block 400 rods at 5.565" long Center to Center.

So the big issue...without numbers on the caps and rods there is no good way to be sure the parts are in the same place they were back when the engine was together last..

Told the shop to clean them and resize to specs.

I got the Mic's on the crank this morning.

ABSOLUTELY SPOT ON FACTORY SPECS...The mains and rods are perfect.....

Standard bearings will make this little beast fine and dandy.

The pistons...
Block should clean up at .030 oversize..

Make this a 406 Cube FrankenMouse

Snooping around and found some NEW OLD STOCK +.030 standard dish type pistons.

With the Vortec heads the calculations gets this widdle mouse in the 9.5:1 compression arena.

This should be sweet on pump gas....

I hate to trip the trigger on the pistons until I get the block cleaned up a bit and make sure there are no surprises.

Fella has several sets of slugs....Hopefully I can get the block outside and have a good look at it soon.

Just a few more details and I can stick this stuff on the shelf and hopefully get back on other details on the cat.

We have enough parts now to finish a complete set of wheels....

Before I yank the cab back off I want to finish the nose on this thing.....the ant eater hood and cowl needs to be fabricated....

Then I won't need to be worrying about welding over the new engine.

Gawd....there is no end to this thing....Actually a lot of progress has been made and we are not quite a year since it came home.

Diffy is basically complete now......Just need to toss the axle tubes on and bolt it back in.....
Thing is too long with the tubes bolted on....and will be a PITA in the shop that way.


A little here and a little there until spring gets here.

My next major thing is to get the Vortec 350 apart and the goodies cleaned up and on the shelf....
I need the trailer soon to get another task done and that Small block is in the way......

Fun Fun Fun.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Weather was basically dry today....but windy and cold.
Said T'Hell with it......gotta get some work done.

Got the 400 block outside and went after it.

Took the 9" grinder with the big cup brush after all the surfaces...
Decks
Pan rail.
Bell housing surface
Timing cover and fuel pump flange area.
Ran a bottle brush hone through the cylinders....yeah.... we gotta bore it .030.
One has a place water had been there....just too ugly to let go.

I tapped all the threaded holes to clean them up.

Took a magnifying glass to the area between the upper steam holes and the adjacent head bolt hole....NO APPARENT CRACKS.
Marked the main caps and got them off.
Wire brushed the seat in the block....not much rust...but grungy.
Washed up the main bolts and buffed them up well.
Main caps fit nice and snug.....Yesssssssssssssssssss.

The main bearing are likely what came in it new  (GM200  3-78)  March of 78  so this block is not older than a 1978....

Ordered up a set of bottom end bearings this morning.

Think I am gonna have the shop check the main line with a bar to see it we need to do an align hone on it...

The front and rear caps can't be mixed up...but the center 3 can......The were not numbered....most big block Chevy's have the numbers cast into the caps....Not these.

I marked them.....so we shall see...

It was nice to get all the threaded holes cleaned up....and not find any broken bolts or messed up threads.

One missing head dowel....no worries....more in the store.....If we deck the block they come out anyway.....

The dusting of Orange still showing inside the block will go away after the hot tank gets after it.......

Main caps and block bores look great..
No signs of the bearings moving about.....

Now.......
If the heads off the Vortec are usable   ...as in....NO CRACKS...We are golden....

Unless something hinky shows it's head....things should have been worth the effort.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

I looked up the numbers off the engine deck
Final assembly     Flint
Date May 18 1980
GMC 1 ton standard cab
TH400 trans
175 hp 4 barrel carb
California truck


----------



## PJL

Vortec heads on a 400 block?! Definitely a FrankenCat.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

The Vortec head swap to a 400 is not waaaaaay off the wall.....This swap has been done many times before.

The Vortec heads flow better and have a 66cc Chamber as opposed to the 76cc stock 400 head.
Stock pistons will come in at 9.5:1 Compression ratio.

The big deal is to add the 6 "Steam holes" in each head to match the ones in the block.

Not a big deal......I have done it years ago when we used 350 heads on the 400...

Not doing it will make a big overheating problem.

I am sticking with the stock 5.565" con rods (Cost) and stock type pistons. 
ALSO
The later heads allow using the nice late model Serpentine belt drive system (That came on the used Vortec) 

A couple outfits offer an intake manifold that accepts the Quadrajet Carburetor (QJets are my fav for good low speed response and they are not as fussy with carb icing as holleys)

Yessssssssssssss...FrankenCat

Nice thing about the Chevy Mouse motor.....you can mix and match until you are all warm and fuzzy..... 

This engine will be a 406 cube torque beast.....and pretty much be limited to 4500 RPM MAX.....

I am thinking about setting up the tranny to operate as a manual select and not auto shift....Jury still out on that one.

A full manual shift kit is an easy thing to do...

With the 13.27 gears through the OC12 starting up under many conditions in 3rd gear in the TH350 will likely not be an issue.

Running full auto shift the tranny is going to go zip...bang..bang..bang into third gear with the super low ratio.

Testing will tell the story.....but with a max road speed of 12-15 MPH the picture is pretty clear....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Good weather today so far.

Dragged the engine block outside and went after removing ALL the Core plugs (Freeze plugs) and the oil galley plugs.

Some other yahoooooo had been worrying on the galley plugs and had F'D up two of the square sockets in the 1/4" pipe plugs.
The one in the top of the LH deck was really messed up.

Took some patience and a bit of ELBOW Grease to get that bad boy out.

The front oil galley plugs almost fell out when I ran a piece of 3/8" rod down the galley and pushed on them.

I will stake the holes going back in......
I may add a small Allen Screw with the head slightly over the holes to keep the plugs from getting loose.
The hole is a touch too large for tapping to 1/4" NPT.

Takes very little to hold the plugs in.....but if one gets out....GAME OVER.....

There is also one down under the rear main cap that blocks the oil passage so oil flows to the filter and then reenters the passage above the plug.

This block is so grungy that every orifice must be cleaned out well.

The Freeze plugs were actually fine.
The coolant had been maintained well.
But ya can't see how they are.....and getting them out is a one way trip.....

This bad boy is now ready to head over to the machine shop and get tanked.
I have a set of Silvolite pistons I found online quite reasonably priced   .030 OS.

I drove out the two end cam bearings....my driver is too short to try and get the center bearings out...let the shop do it before it goes in the tank.

I am quite pleased with what we have to build on.
I was nervous at first...but after getting into it and checking things out.....other than being dirty....actually very nice piece.
ALMOST get away with a fresh set of standard pistons....ALMOST.....a couple holes have some water etching in them.
Just can't do it.....

Fresh bores and pistons.....Sweet widdle mouse....

With the siamesed cylinders I am really thinking about opening the piston to cylinder clearance up a touch.

Stock is .0007" to .0021"     On  STOCK 350 this works.
One an engine that is going to be spinning 3500 RPM or a bit more on a steady basis....I am thinking .003" on the clearance.

I want  a touch more on the bottom end too.

Gonna shoot for .002" to .0025" on the crank bearings.

Run a high volume oil pump too....standard pressure though.

Ahh yess...


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Fooling around with the Front oil galley plugs in the BLOCK later yesterday.

I picked through some left over plugs from previous builds.....the new plugs do NOT even tap into the oil galleys snug....let alone tight.

NOT going to fool with the cup plugs....
Going to tap the holes with 1/4' NPT (Same as rear plugs)
The only thing that's important is to tap slowly...checking the depth and make sure not to go too deep...

The plug needs to be tight as it approaches FLUSH with the block.

Too deep on the upper (Center) passage will result in the plug blocking the oil feed to the front cam bearing AND the front main bearing and rods.

Stick a small object (Drill or ???) up through the main bearing oil feed hole and make sure the plug does not obstruct the oil feed hole..

Add blue loctite to the threads JUST TO BE SURE THE LITTLE BUGGERS STAY PUT.

Out back the loctite will seal the threads up nicely and keep them from leaking too.

DO NOT USE ***RED***
You may want to get these out some time.....Red requires heat to remove .....The Allen plugs do not have a very large hex size.... Once you rip it out....then comes more work.


The internal plug in the pump feed passage is fine with the cup plug...This is a pressure balanced galley and so ...no worries.

A side note.

Any block coming down for a complete rebuild needs all these plugs removed to be sure all the skanky stuff is cleaned out.

An old dirty soldier like this 400 really needs to be cleared all the way...lest ye will have some crap wipe out a bearing......

THAT'S UGLY


----------



## Snowy Rivers

OMG.
Jumping for joy.....GOT THE NEW   "FrankenPan" for the Cat....Will fit any small block Chevy with two piece rear main seal.
3 gates, designed for "ROAD RACE" application.....7 quart capacity should be fine for a hobby cat.

Arrived about 30 minutes ago via FEDEX.....

Box was a tad thrashed....but the pan is fine

Lovely windage tray system too.

This will certainly help keep the oil in the sump.

Running 3500-to 4000 RPM at max road speed will churn a froth in the pan for sure......nice to be able to keep it controlled.

Well made too.
Drain plug on the RH rear,
Plugs for a flex dip stick on the LH SIDE....and a plug for oil temp sender or ??????

Getting at the drain plug will be tough.

Likely suck it out with a pump......


----------



## Bobcatbob

Engine looks like fun!  Shot peen, hot bath and polishing.....good to go!  Will you deck it yourself (seen that Bridgeport, pull out a big fly cutter)...?


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Thanks Bobcat

I have zero way to get anything as heavy as the block onto the Mill table.
There is a "Little machine shop in the woods" (Kenner's Auto) about 15 miles away ....he has a nice deck grinder that really does a spiffy job.

I use him for boring, decking, cam bearing installs and such.

I have the experience with all this stuff....just don't have all the tools.

I used to have a boring bar.....but the new machines that register off the mainline give a much better job.
He also has a sunnen power hone that gives a real nice finish.....

The decks on this block look pretty good ....while the block is in for boring and a couple trips through the hot washer I will have them check the decks with his big ground straight edge.

Unless we see an anomaly that screams loudly I want to leave the decks alone.

I have been doing all the snively prep work that just burns time and $$$$$$ getting the beast ready to drop off at Kenner's

Actually my mill is a tad small for handling a block.....Mine is a 9x42   I would want a machine about 2-3 sizes bigger with a much heavier spindle....

Just about done with the prep stuff.....Still need to worry the coolant drain plugs out of the sides of the block.....At least these are hex head plugs and can be wrangled with a wrench......I had a block years ago that some clown screwed in Allen head plugs and they were a beotch.

Ended up drilling them and they were still a fight......

So far this critter looks great.....

I will admit.....If it had not been for the fact that it came with an engine stand ....I may well have passed on it..

But for $50......and things seems to have ended well.

Crank was a boat anchor......the rods are at the shop now getting resized

Best engine blocks are OLD rusty used iron that has a bazillion miles and a butt ton of years on the clock.

If they are crack free and otherwise usable.....they make great foundations....the iron is done moving....and is fully normalized.

I'm starting to get excited now.

I unloaded the Vortec engine off the trailer yesterday.....(Snow coming and I want the Burb available)  

Tried to remove the screw on fan clutch....it was a pain.....I need to get the proper holding tool for the pulley...

I will probably just make one.....
I have the big wrench the fits the clutch hub.....just could not keep the pulley from moving and the tool that is supposed to grab the heads of the 4 bolts that holds the pulley is not quite right.

I am thinking that a steel plate with 4 holes in it that will allow it to bolt to the pulley and a hole that corresponds to a hole in the AC bracket.....this will really tie that sucker down good so I can get some ooooomph on the wrench on the clutch.

The cost of the fan clutch if I mess it up is more than I paid for the entire engine......worth the time to do it right....

That big clutch and 11 blade fan is in great shape....I do not want to screw it up trying to remove it.....

My bet is that stuff is factory and has not been off since new.......


----------



## m1west

Snowy Rivers said:


> OMG.
> Jumping for joy.....GOT THE NEW   "FrankenPan" for the Cat....Will fit any small block Chevy with two piece rear main seal.
> 3 gates, designed for "ROAD RACE" application.....7 quart capacity should be fine for a hobby cat.
> 
> Arrived about 30 minutes ago via FEDEX.....
> 
> Box was a tad thrashed....but the pan is fine
> 
> Lovely windage tray system too.
> 
> This will certainly help keep the oil in the sump.
> 
> Running 3500-to 4000 RPM at max road speed will churn a froth in the pan for sure......nice to be able to keep it controlled.
> 
> Well made too.
> Drain plug on the RH rear,
> Plugs for a flex dip stick on the LH SIDE....and a plug for oil temp sender or ??????
> 
> Getting at the drain plug will be tough.
> 
> Likely suck it out with a pump......


If you plan on turning 4k with that motor don't forget the trailer with gas tanker on it. your looking at gallons to the mile. You will be burning north of 30 gallons an hour under full load. I had a small cabin cruiser with a 350, running 4k rpm would burn that much or more. Snow cats are like boats or a truck pulling a load uphill, the engine always has a load on it.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

YOU GOT THAT RIGHT.

It's all uphill...no coast and that's how it is.

Probably limit normal cruise speed to 3000  (That's 10 MPH with the gearing this cat has)
5.44 R&P & 2.44 Drop boxes  = 13.27 final drive

3000 rpm divide by 13.27= 226.07 axle rpm......12 tooth sprockets....4"  pitch  = 48" of track movement per revolution (No slippage)

226.07 axle RPM x 4' = 904.29 Ft per minute.ground speed.. divide by 88  (88 Ft per minute is 1 mph) final number = 10.276 MPH
Definitely not gonna set any world land speed records
2000 RPM=  6.8  MPH
3000 RPM=  10.2 MPH
4000 RPM = 13.7 MPH
5000 RPM = 17.1 MPH

Most cats of this vintage spec out about 12 MPH  top speed.

Not going to be a fuel miser at all....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Arrrrrrgh.
Snow is coming....and my cat it in pieces.....

By tomorrow we will have the white chit on the ground.
Spent several hours today getting hay in for the horses.
Dropped the snow poles down in the big arena (Center posts that can be tightened up under the king pins on the 60' wide trusses.)
But just finished dinner.....let it rip....

Not much cat stuff done today.....about all I got done was wrangled the block drain plugs out of the block.

Luckily they were 9/16" hex headed 1/4" pipe plugs...Took a breaker bar to get them to budge.....but they are out and the holes tapped to clean them up.

Block is nearly ready for the machine shop....
I want to tap the 3 front galley plug holes before it goes to the shop.....the wash all over will get rid of any crap....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Sitting here nursing a cup A Joe....pondering the back half of the cat.

I had abandoned the Astro idea simply because I can't handle the entire body and lift it on the cat chassis.

The S10 was/is easy to handle.......
But the crew compliment is 2.

Adding the pickup box on the back is an option then put on a canopy....

What about taking an Astro and cutting the body off just at the front edge of the B pillar.....
Be rid of the entire front end and all it's weight.
Remove the rear axle and all the sub frame (Further lightening the beast)

Close in the NOW OPEN body at the B pillar.

Sliding side door.... Hatch or Dutch rear doors and two 3 places seating.

This much of the body will not weigh a lot and can likely be handled easily with my lifting rig used to lift the S10 cab......

If serious maintenance is needed the S10 cab can come off easily....and leave the Astro rear half...or vice versa.

A dead Astro should be easy to dig up......CHEAP......

This sounds like it might make the original idea possible.....

Just some thoughts........


----------



## PJL

Snowy Rivers said:


> Sitting here nursing a cup A Joe....pondering the back half of the cat.
> 
> I had abandoned the Astro idea simply because I can't handle the entire body and lift it on the cat chassis.
> 
> The S10 was/is easy to handle.......
> But the crew compliment is 2.
> 
> Adding the pickup box on the back is an option then put on a canopy....
> 
> What about taking an Astro and cutting the body off just at the front edge of the B pillar.....
> Be rid of the entire front end and all it's weight.
> Remove the rear axle and all the sub frame (Further lightening the beast)
> 
> Close in the NOW OPEN body at the B pillar.
> 
> Sliding side door.... Hatch or Dutch rear doors and two 3 places seating.
> 
> This much of the body will not weigh a lot and can likely be handled easily with my lifting rig used to lift the S10 cab......
> 
> If serious maintenance is needed the S10 cab can come off easily....and leave the Astro rear half...or vice versa.
> 
> A dead Astro should be easy to dig up......CHEAP......
> 
> This sounds like it might make the original idea possible.....
> 
> Just some thoughts........


I have a pic of an Astro grafted onto a Spryte. I'll post it when i get home tonght.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Ooooooohh 
Sweet.

This idea will likely be the easiest and least costly method to get a comfy rear cabin.

Ready made.....Close in the front  ahead of the B pillar...add a slider window to match the one in the S 10 Cab.

All the wiring is already in the rig for the rear lights.
Easy to add a stand alone heater if the rear does not have one.....
Put an after market heater under a seat...

I plopped an ad on Craigs list...see what shakes.

Somebody has one in their yard that they want gone.........


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Well now.....

I measured an Astro up and even with the front gone.....the package is waaaaaaay too long.
Another S10 cab of the same vintage and mount it backwards on the Cat chassis is gonna be the best choice me thinks....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Weather dudes laid it on us with possibly 2 feet of snow.....

OK
The Son in law was handy so we set the safety poles in the Arena.
Back in 2008 we had nearly 4 feet of snow on that roof and it held.

Every other arena in the area went flat...

Takes about an hour to unhook the poles and swing them down.
Then lay down some 2 x 12 on the dirt and wedge things up tight.

We put the poles under (Or nearly so) the trusses king pin.....
The holding capacity soars with this trick.


After doing the math on what sort of weight was on that roof back in 08 it is scary.

A couple really lovely barns were destroyed in 08.....

It did not have to happen.....a couple hundred bucks and a bit of time rigging things


----------



## PJL

Astro-Spryte.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

PJL
Thanks for posting the piccy.

My biggest issue is that the S10 cab is sitting nearly in the same location as the factory 2100 cab ..."Midship"
The Astro from the B pillar to the bumper is 105" long..... I have about 55"  from the back of the cab to the rear of the frame on the 2100.

Having that much extra overhang is not going to work out....

The idea was good....just the realization is not workable.

I stuck an ad on Craig's looking for another standard cab....I specified STD cab....So far 3 guys have called...everyone has the extended cab version.   TOOOOOOOOOO LONG

I also asked for a junker NON runable....yada yada yada..... The cheapest offer was $3995.00  Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat????
Too many folks do not read ad copy before they grab the phone.


Ahhhh well.....Patience will yield something......


----------



## 1boringguy

What about a truck sleeper, 56 or 60 inch? A stand up model wouldn't be bad. Aluminum so light weight, already insulated and basically finished inside, can remove the bed and have seats if that's ones desire, or have a bed along behind you. Buying one from the truck salvage can be a bit spendy,  but take offs can be had pretty cheap at auctions or sitting around someone's truck yard.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

That might be a plan.
Never have those a thought.

Going to have to do some snooping on that.

Mount the cab opening to the rear and add a door facing rearward.

Maybe make this a Veranda Cat...walk down the tracks and around back


----------



## m1west

Snowy Rivers said:


> That might be a plan.
> Never have those a thought.
> 
> Going to have to do some snooping on that.
> 
> Mount the cab opening to the rear and add a door facing rearward.
> 
> Maybe make this a Veranda Cat...walk down the tracks and around back


You still have the original 2100 cab, that would fix a lot of problems


----------



## Snowy Rivers

I sold the 2100 cab......
The thought of using it was on the table for a time...
Just did not like the single door access and a few other things about that cab.....

I think that from an aesthetics point of view.....using a second S10 cab and sitting it on backwards (Suicide doors) will look good and will allow symmetry in parts and also I will be able to use the same cab lift rig to handle it.

The cab mounting can remain nearly identical to the forward unit.

Just gut the cab....pull out all the dash and other unnecessary parts and make use of the room .....maybe a tool box or ???? on that end of the cab.

Would be cool to be able to have both cabs facing the same way.....sadly the rear cab will be far enough back over the tracks that ingress and egress will be a real pain...

I have a 10" wide catwalk that I plan on using as a step up off the tracks.
These will fit on a mount that slides into the box tube under the cab......Very easy to just make these steps longer and span both cabs......Or make the steps an individual item....

OMG......So many possibilities .......

Right now we are getting our AZZ kicked with an ice storm......
Poor FrankenCat is coated in an icy cocoon .......

So far...4 respondents on my want ad for an S10 cab.....(AD READS  Standard cab only......)

All four have offered nice clean trucks at car lot prices......


Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat......I want a dead one that needs to be hauled off...... not a driver for $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ 

Yeah... well the ideas are all appreciated......in do time something will  click together.


----------



## 1boringguy

Maybe cruise the scrape yards that take cars, leave your number to call if they get an s10 comes through. Eventually a scrap yard sees everything.


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## Snowy Rivers

We have a PICNPULL 10 miles away.
Unless it's a "Builder" they will not sell the cab.

Gotta buy the entire unit and they generally want $$$$$$$$

I did call them up and ask about such.

They currently have several rigs that would be perfect.....but once they are in the yard......only parts can be pulled.
They will smash the cab rather than sell it.....
Reason...It has the VIN ##### and unless it is sold with the title it becomes an issue I guess.

But if they sell it as a Builder with a Salvage title ....different story....
I did this back a few years with them.....

A complete cab is not in the offing....
Local Pic N Pull has been great for parts......but they have rules that ya just can't get them to break.

I could care less about all the  extra crap....Engine, frame yada yada yada....but that always seems to be the way it happens.


----------



## 1boringguy

Yea I was thinking more of the scrape iron yards where they just crush them. Have buddy who has a couple yards and they let people get parts. Didnt think about title issues ?


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## Snowy Rivers

Yeah me too.

The big scrapper that crushes in this area also owns the Pic N Pull yards.....handy eh????
State of Oregon is tight on titled items just getting let loose without a paper trail....
Doors, fenders, box, frames....and all that stuff is OK...But that all mighty Vin #### ...THEY WANT THAT KEPT TRACK OF UNTIL IT IS ground up and accounted for.

Their rules on selling cabs still applies.....only as a salvage title deal for a complete.

When the yards have an amount of hulks that are picked over they fire up the crusher and mash them right on site.
Then they haul them to the smelter and toss them in the grinder.....from there they head to various foundries.

I still think the best way is a private treaty.

Nice thing about this issue now....the build can proceed ...and even up to having the machine operable....
I would just like to get a cab in my hands so I can locate it on the chassis and do all the drilling and any fab work before I paint the tub.
Paint is gonna be a rattle can job.....so this is not a deal breaker.....

Haaaaa
Just got a text a second ago....Guy has a 2000 pickup....Ext cab 4x4 nice runner.....for $5000
Another one that can't read ad copy.


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## Snowy Rivers

Power back

48 hours in the dark...

Ran the 4000 watt gen set to keep the place warm

A buttload of trees took out power lines.

Back up at 4:30 this afternoon.

Shower, dinner and some online time......yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss...
A plus though.
The bearings I ordered for the 400 engine showed up on the little brown truck this afternoon......

Tons of crap to clean up from the storm....

Hope Y'all are doing well.
This nasty storm appears to be hitting a lot of folks....

Be safe crew.....


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## PJL

Your neighbors to the north didn't get it as bad.  I had drifts of about a foot to shovel off on Saturday.  It's all rain now.


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## Snowy Rivers

East Portland got slammed...They always do.
We had about 5 inches total accumulation....mostly ice.
Really made a mess of things.

We are about 4 miles from downtown Newberg.....on Chehalem Mt.
We get a fair amount of influence from the gorge winds as we are on top of the hill with a view both south and north....We can see Mt Hood off the deck to the east.

Glad this crap is gone.
But we have the old 4x4 Burb and the Avy is a 4x4.

Damned glare ice sucks though.....
During the worst of it we had one of the old horses in the barn take sick.

Always seems that when its froze to hell and the power is off a critter gets sick.

Never fails...Well tanks are always just ready to turn the pump on and poof...power goes out.
We have a 250 gallon static storage tank in the barn for emergencies....but it froze.

We are gonna move that tank and insulate it before next winter.

We sure could have enjoyed the cat though.....ahhh well.

Horsie is on the mend now....Cold and her eating habits fouled her up...
32 years old....still pretty spunky...but fragile.


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## Snowy Rivers

Well....a bit of news that pertains to the cat project.

The con rods for the 400 engine are almost complete as of yesterday morning.

The screw on fan clutch removal tool I ordered last week showed up yesterday.

Now I can get the fan off the Vortec engine....

These screw on fan clutches can be a PITA to remove without the tools.....No sense in ruining a clutch that will cost more than I paid for the engine to replace it by being rough on it.


Carry on troops
Be safe out there in Cat land.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Still around.
Off onto cleaning up the mess from the ice and snow and getting better prepared for the next nasty weather event.
Weather is still wretched outside...Not much gonna happen until we get some decent working weather.


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## Snowy Rivers

Some nice spring like weather today and for another day or two.
The nasty winds, ice storm and other events left the cat covered with limbs, cones, needles and a big mess.

Decided to get the little tractor up to the house and get the cat pulled out of it's place in front of the shop and clean things up A LOT.

A couple pix.

Cat pulled back out of the way....cleaned out all the crap that had accumulated over the winter.

We are actually starting year two of the resto/mod.

All the work that got accomplished last year actually amounted to a lot of progress.

All the old hydraulics and such removed.
Original tranny removed.
Chassis cleaned up
Small block Chevy procured along with a TH 350 TRANNY.
Power pack fit into chassis.
Exhaust all built and fitted.
OC12 completely rebuilt
S10 pickup purchased to provide a cab and bed
Cab fitted and mounts built.

Front axle to be replaced with a hybrid type similar to the later style Thiokol 3700 axle..separate axles on each side.
Currently have 4 of the alloy wheel hub combos....front and rear axles.
Wheels and custom centers on hand for the 6 center wheel locations.
Currently have a good Chevy 400 small block.... Crank, Rods (Just reworked).... Have a complete 1998 Chevy 350 Vortec.

Going to use the Vortec heads, Serpentine accessory drive and a few other goodies.
Bore the block .030" Oversize and wind up with a VORTEC 406.
Will likely sell the 305 that is sitting in the cat now.
TH350 will be kept...

As soon as the weather allows....will remove the cab and get after the drive shaft mounting and get the OC12 back into the cat.
Small repair work needed on the outer diffy axle tube mounts at the frame.
Engine and tranny mounts need to have the finish welds done..  (Mounts are a slip to fit and weld type)

Ant eater nose Hood needs to be fabricated....
Looks like a front end similar to what the 2100 had originally will be the plan (Box tube assembly)

The pickup box from the S10 MAY GO ON THE REAR....UNLESS ANOTHER SIMILAR CAB CAN BE LOCATED.
A double cab would be nice.

A lot of work really has been done in this year.

The design for a set of 3 foot wide tracks is complete and will include the original 2100 tire guides...(We have nearly enough guides now to build two tracks)
Original track sprockets are so so....will get us going...they will need to be recovered at some point.

Getting outside today really got the Cat itch going again.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Getting back to work on things now a little bit.
The 400 block is just about ready to head out to the machine shop for cylinder boring.
One hole has a tad bit of RUST ETCHING on one side.... .030 pistons SHOULD be fine....Butttttttttttttttttttttt.
Gonna do a test bore on that hole and make sure we can do the .030 OS and clean up before I order the pistons

Found a set of .030 OS  New old stock pistons really right $$
But the price means zip if we need .040 OS

Anyway...Crank I got looks sweet...measures great at standard size...both rods and mains.
New bearings sitting here on my shelf.....

Getting some stuff done on the 400 seems like a good idea...at least until the sunny weather gets here and I can work outside again.
Really anxious to get the heads off the Vortec engine and see if they are any good........

Ahh yess....
Getting the Short block together on the 400 (Will end up being a 406 cube) will be sweet....

The piston clearance is spec'd  to be .0017" which is mighty tight...
Snow cats are like boats...no coast and high RPM.
Likely open the bores up to about.003"

A steady 3500 RPM and or above will not be at all uncommon on this beast......

Do not want any scuffed piston skirts......
I ran many boats with V8 inboards and always gave them extra clearance.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Absolutely marvelous day today....Great working weather......

Been far too long since I had a good cat fix.
Dragged out the last of the wheel centers (Snowflakes) and got to work on drilling the lug stud holes.

The Jig was so so.....Decided to make it better.
I had one snowflake with the holes drilled and the fit was perfect.....
Transferring the hole locations with a transfer punch is OK but it is so easy to get a tiny mistake....and end up with a hole that does not line up right.

Decided to USE the one good one as a drill jig and turned the original fixture into a holding tool.
Drop the undrilled part on the fixture....then add the one with the holes.

Locate the fixture to the mill table then index the drill bit and get it lined up on the first hole.
Remove the 17/32 drill and insert the 5/16 pilot drill....do the pilot hole and then put the 17/32" drill back in and finish the hole.

Insert the transfer punch to hold the parts located....Index the plates and repeat....5 times.

Drilled the remaining plates and then put the 60 degree countersink in the chuck....Index the spindle to the proper elevation using the finished plate ( Now a tool) and then countersink the holes for the 60 degree tapered lug nuts.
REPEAT FOR THE REMAINING PLATES

The welding fixture bolts to the  back of the snowflake and registers it in the wheel for the proper offset....
Offset is the same as the factory Thiokol 2100 (Or Spryte) wheels.....

I did order 6 more Snowflakes....
Going to keep the one finished plate as a jig.....just in case more are needed.

I did come up with 2 more of the factory aluminum wheels and will use them along with the two that came with the cat....
2 fronts and two rears....The steel wheels with the snowflake centers will be the center 6 wheels.

Great to be doing something again......

Still need to run the plates through the lathe and turn the OD to fit the inside of the wheels.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

More great weather......
Decided to finish up the wheels I had enough parts for.
Got one Snowflake that is being kept as part of the Jig/fixture and one that I got a bad do on one hole....gonna scrap it.

So 4 are now complete....Need to do a little cleaning up and get them ready to paint.

I think a good coat of silver will suffice.
Then the Snowflake wheels will sort of blend in withe the aluminum factory ones.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Today was "Get a urethane filled tire off the wheel day" 

Grabbed the two wheels I traded for and dragged them up to the shop.
Right off I noticed that the wheels were a tad different.

One is a large bearing aluminum wheel....Probably off a Thiokol 3700 and the other is the standard size bearing alloy wheel.
Both are in good shape.

I really do not want ONE odd wheel on the cat
All my other wheels/hubs use the standard 2100 Packmaster hubs and bearings.

Anyway.
Got out the SAWZALL and did the exorcism .....Fun stuff

A cut a chunk off the outer diameter of the tire.
Then run the saw around the side all the way on both sides and removed the side wall and tread face.

Easy job.
Cut the urethane fill carefully and pealed it off.

Tire spoons got the beads off quickly.
Wash up the Wheel....Sweeeet

Piccy's of the carnage.

A buddy has a mate to that one large bearing wheel.
Gonna put the big bearing wheels up front.
Use the current front wheels in the rear position.....
The custom wheels can fill in the center slots.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Weather still nice.

Cut the second tire off the alloy wheel.

Old rusty bearing races driven out.
The tire today had a tube inside with the urethane inside the tube.
Nasty black goooooooop between the wheel and the tube.
Not sure what will cut that crap off the wheel.

Will try some high test alcohol free gasoline and a brush.....maybe

The wheels look good.

I definitely am impressed at how easily those tires come off the wheels.

Aside from the gooooop there was zero issues.

Definitely going to have the new tires filled with the urethane on the front  and rear wheels.


----------



## Thefatsquatch

Who are you having fill those?   Schwabbs wanted $140 per wheel, and I can’t seem to get the stuff cheaper anywhere else. Also, when they fill those, how do they pressurize them?   I want mine 60 psi-tight, but with foam or something instead of air.


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## Snowy Rivers

Yeah...Schwabs is way too high.

I found a couple of industrial outfits up in Portland that do it.
I will post the WHO..WHAT..WHERE when I nail down the best price.....
I called Yesterday but the guy who quotes the $$$$$ on odd jobs was out.

I will get this nailed down.
The pumps have a pressure gauge.
Most of the urethane fill does not expand like "Foam"...it simply jells to a rubber consistency.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

With the good weather coming up....Another mid course correction MAY be in the works.
An opportunity to Acquire a couple old 2100 tracks has surfaced..along with other goodies....

Looking at using the 43" long factory J grousers as a SINGLE WIDTH grouser.
Only need to drill 4 holes in each grouser...
This plan will result in a lot of time and material saving...
After seriously reviewing the track layout the Thefatsquatch has on his 2100 I am seriously looking at the idea.

Cutting, machining, welding and drilling 144 grousers from scratch is just going top be a buttload of work...

The J grousers are very sturdy.......
Running these as full width rather than staggered raises questions.....but stranger things have been done.....

12" belts inside and outside and the 43" grousers just might get this part of the project finished up with far less work....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Dug into the leftover grousers from the one original track I got with the machine...

Dragged out one right hand and one left hand piece and got them on the bench.
Using these as single width grousers will be a simple task.
As I mentioned yesterday 4 extra holes needed is all.

Stopped by the steel yard and picked up some 1/4" x 2 x 1-1/2" Angle to make a pair of drill jigs so the grousers will all be the same.
Trying to get a transfer punch down into the J grouser proved to be a non starter....Going to have to cut the blade back a fair amount on the grousers to gain access to the holes.
I hate to sacrifice two grousers....but having accurate tooling that will allow repeat accuracy all the way through the build and into the future if need be is paramount........

After all the drilling of the bolts last summer to get the tire guides off my drill chuck for the mill finally gave up....The jaws are worn out...and the #2 taper on that chuck was not perfect anyway....(Came with the mill back in 2003 when I bought it) 

Time for a new chuck....Got a nice 1/32" to 5/8" ball bearing chuck with an R8 shank (Bridgeport type spindle)
New chuck showed up yesterday....... Sweeeeeeeeeet.....IT IS GONNA GET A WORKOUT.....

Busy day today....likely not much gonna get done.....But the next step is to cut the two grousers and then get the jigs made.

I am not really cool with having the "Slide stops" on the outer edges of the tracks which will be how this lash up will work....
May try to add a bolt on slide stop in the middle of the grouser ?????????

Having the original slide stops on the outer edge looks like a great way to drag a track off........

We shall see.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Weather is about to get wet for a day or two.
Decided to get after the drill jigs for modifying the standard 43"    "J" GROUSERS
Took the torch to one RH & one LH grouser.
Opened them up enough to allow getting a transfer punch into the holes.

Got the jigs all marked as to which grouser they fit  RIGHT OR LEFT (Using the factory notation as to the side of the track)

All marked and ready to drill.
Need to add one extra hole for each belt and two for the tire guides.

Tire guides are going to mount on center between the outer bolt holes that are existing.

One tire guide bolt hole will be very close to one of the center group of holes.
May add a piece of 1/4" steel to span that area....then weld it in place.
Only one series needs the extra piece....Can't remember Rh/Lh it is....but I noticed the issue when measuring things up yesterday.....
Marked the jigs with nomenclature so that at a later date the usage will be obvious.....AND NOT END UP WRONG...

Also dragged out that one wheel center "Snowflake" that had the oooooops on one lug stud hole.

Welded it up, ground things smooth and redrilled/countersunk...
Came out fine....."MORE GOODER NOW"

Some pics


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Good weather is coming....but it was nice enough today to get started at getting the front axle out of the cat.

Got the cat jacked up far enough to get the axle out.
The plan is to totally build a new PAIR of axles for the front end.
Instead of a single axle ...there will be a separate axle on each side ...independently adjustable on each side.

I started on this back last fall ....the one shaft is partially built....as are the tubular housings.

Good time to get this stuff done....
I have quite a bit of the materials needed....now with some good weather things can happen..

I want to get both sides done and the cat sitting with all its     "paws on the ground"

I have been vacillating back and forth on how to suspend the axle....pretty sure I am going to use a "Timbren" rubber spring to act against an arm fastened to the new axle shaft......These axles do not move that much....but do need some flex......

The Timbren biscuit should be quite capable of handling the load readily.

An adjustable stop to adjust the tension on the axle....and a positive stop to stop down travel for going too far.

Shaft with the original spindle arm welded to it will pivot in a pair of UHMW bushings inside the new housings....
An inner support similar to the original axle mounting will carry the inside ends of each axle section....

Looking at the huge azz sump that the oil pan sat down in while jacking the cat up.

Gonna chop that mess out.....and add a much shorter drop sump that is a bit bigger to fit the new pan for the 406 engine...

The basic idea of the split axle is SORT OF LIKE what LMC did on the later 3700 cats.

More to follow...
Couple pix...


----------



## Snowy Rivers

The last couple days have not been kind as far as getting much cat work done....always seems that as soon as I get the tools out and try to get to work somebody wants my help with something.

Yesterday did score pretty well...at least I think so....
Looking over the design on the new front axles......There needs to be some thrust washers in the axle "stack" ...Between the spindle arm and the first pivot tube....(Slack adjuster bracket) then another washer between the first tube (Inside face) and the tubular assembly that the air bag/timbren arm attaches too.....then another washer between the arm tube and the inner adjuster bracket.

The piccy has a pretty good show of how this all stacks up.

Originally the plan was to use UHMW washers....too hard to get the material I needed and the thickness was going to be such that ???? A TAD THIN to be comfortable.

Decided to look at aluminum round stock and just make the washers.

The washers also shield the grease seals on the end of each tube. (Yesssss...UHMW does not require grease....but grease will not hurt the poly bushings and it will help keep the shaft from rusting )

Called around and finally found a steel yard the said they should have some 3" or 4" round short pieces (Foot or so long)

We head over to the yard and there was zero short alloy shafts of the size needed...

Arrrrrrrrrrgh
Just about ready to toss in the towel and head back....off in a corner of the small warehouse is a shelf unit with some round stock that looks interesting......

Decided to check it out...Whoa...Sweeet....brass stock....3-5/8" OD x 1-7/8" ID ABOUT 13" LONG  (Many other sizes there too)

Grabbed the chunk and head up to weigh it.

$4.50 per pound   $117 out the door..

Brass is far better for such parts and will last a loooooooooooooong time.

Piccy of current design for the axle assembly   (LETS CALL THIS A BETA VERSION....LIKELY WILL SEE A FEW MODS BEFORE IT IS COMPLETE) 
The recent decision to go with the 43" grousers/tracks does give rise to some slight changes on the location of the air bag/timbren arm and the inner adjuster bracket......

But things will be of this basic design.
The axle shaft is currently pressed onto the spindle housing and ready to weld..... 

The arm assembly will be retained with two 1/2" grade 8 bolts through the arm tube and the axle shaft.

The forces required to shear those are pretty high.....Likely destroy far more than the axle.

The original axle inner "Torsion cam bar" is a 4 lobe arrangement and about the same section as the 2" shaft.
Whatever happened to the original axle bent the axle tube and did not tweak the center torsion shaft....

I am comfortable that the 2" round shaft supported as it is in the assembly will serve well.

The spindles at the wheels are much smaller.....and should be the fuse....LETS HOPE WE NEVER SEE AN IMPACT THAT CAN DAMAGE THIS STUFF.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Had some snow this morning...but got the front axle out of the cat.

Bolts were tighter than a bulls azz in fly time....Decided not to waste my time and energy reefing on them....Grabbed the hot wrench and off they came.

Axle out on the ground.
Spindle castings are in great shape....Going to chop the axle  up and remove the spindle assemblies for possible future use...

A few pix of things......A well used front unit from a 3700....Torsion unit is shot...Spindle is salvageable.

The LH adjuster bracket and one of the new support tubes and polymer bushing.

The old axle with some very Fugly plates welded on to try and fix the damage done at some time.
Front axle with nasty bend.

Get the adjuster brackets out and with a very small amount of machining the tube and its new flange (Not shown) will bolt right in....
I think I found another pair of adjusters that can be used on the inner ends of the new axles.

Being able to use existing parts will save a lot of work.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Ripped out the axle adjuster on the LH side.
Same disgusting mess that I have found all the way through this cat.
Get the rear anchor bolt out of the adjuster grease cylinder and the hose block loose.

Yard the assembly out and the entire thing is packed full of grease.

Some ass hat  beat the cylinder rod into the slider bracket with a big club.
Had a helluva time getting the rod out.

Finally made an aluminum horse shoe to slid over the rod next to the piston and tapped it out with a 5 pounder.
The piston and rod are not hurt.

The V packing is shot.
Will need to scare up some new packing......

The slider was packed full of grease....chuck full and really no good way to get it out....

Built a camp fire and tossed the unit in with the open end down.

Got that sucker pretty hot.

Looks like the grease all melted and burned out.

The slider has a few cracks...will need to grind them out and weld things up.

I am hoping that the RH side is not as big of a mess.....

The ugly munge on the end of cylinder is the obvious tracks left by the previous clowns that were in there.

I took my small grinder with a soft pad and relieved the areas shown by the pin hole.

Took little to allow the rod to slide right into the slider.

Gotta ask WHAT WERE THEY THINKING.....
Using a sledge hammer instead of a scalpel me thinks.

Arrrrrrgh.

But......the rod, piston and cylinder bore look good.
Some fresh packing and life should be sweeeeet


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Cruising the net this morning trying to find the track adjuster cylinder seals.
Seems that there have been a couple different designs over the years.

The old 2100 parts book shows a multiple seal type set up and the Spryte 1200 shows a much simpler single seal design.
The unit that is in the LH side is of the single seal type (V PACKING is what is called for in the manual)

Given that this old cat is a mess from the git go We will have to see what is in the other side..

I can only hope they are the same.
The cylinder is the same part number....the rod and some of the internals are different.

So....I think I will get the RH side apart and see whats in there....hopefully the same style unit......Only time will tell.

Very likely the seal is a standard part......Hydraulic supply house item.

Once I nail this info down I will get some hard numbers posted that could help others.


The 21


----------



## rdynes01

Snowy Rivers said:


> Cruising the net this morning trying to find the track adjuster cylinder seals.
> Seems that there have been a couple different designs over the years.
> 
> The old 2100 parts book shows a multiple seal type set up and the Spryte 1200 shows a much simpler single seal design.
> The unit that is in the LH side is of the single seal type (V PACKING is what is called for in the manual)
> 
> Given that this old cat is a mess from the git go We will have to see what is in the other side..
> 
> I can only hope they are the same.
> The cylinder is the same part number....the rod and some of the internals are different.
> 
> So....I think I will get the RH side apart and see whats in there....hopefully the same style unit......Only time will tell.
> 
> Very likely the seal is a standard part......Hydraulic supply house item.
> 
> Once I nail this info down I will get some hard numbers posted that could help others.
> 
> 
> The 21


At the risk of being flamed for the following comments as being "mean", 4


Snowy Rivers said:


> Cruising the net this morning trying to find the track adjuster cylinder seals.
> Seems that there have been a couple different designs over the years.
> 
> The old 2100 parts book shows a multiple seal type set up and the Spryte 1200 shows a much simpler single seal design.
> The unit that is in the LH side is of the single seal type (V PACKING is what is called for in the manual)
> 
> Given that this old cat is a mess from the git go We will have to see what is in the other side..
> 
> I can only hope they are the same.
> The cylinder is the same part number....the rod and some of the internals are different.
> 
> So....I think I will get the RH side apart and see whats in there....hopefully the same style unit......Only time will tell.
> 
> Very likely the seal is a standard part......Hydraulic supply house item.
> 
> Once I nail this info down I will get some hard numbers posted that could help others.
> 
> 
> The 21


At the risk of being flamed for the following comments as being "mean", 4 years and 46 pages worth of info, this is all you have to show so far? I hope we all live long enough to see it finished....Bob


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Me too.

Appreciate your patronage.......

When you can just write the check and get it done.....you can do it fast....
I can't just write the check......and I am likely older than you....probably not in as good of heath either.

No offense taken Bob

Actually...only a tad over a year with the cat in my possession and something to work with.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Now that we have been told we are going too slow.

I got the RH track tensioner out....and by the look of things it has not been out in a loooooooooong time.

Cylinder bore is shot......
It is the same style as the RH one....A GOOD THING

Made a couple phone calls and founds all the materials needed.
A chunk of new DOM cylinder tube.....and the proper seals and back up rings.....
Tomorrow we'll get the cylinder tube cut and machined to length....weld the old end cap into the new tube.

The piston/rod is usable....but the cylinder was about like 20 miles of death valley fire trail.

The LH cylinder having been full of grease is all serviceable.....
The new seal parts look great.......

HERE ARE THE PART NUMBERS FOR THESE BAD BOYS
Used in several of the Thiokol...LMC...DMC TRACK TENSION CYLINDERS
THE V PACKING IS 840601625/N
THE BACKING RING 870601625SD/T
These are available readily online

The backing ring is a solid white polymer
Simply cut it on a 45 or 60 degree angle to allow it to be installed.
The original backer was cut on an angle.


----------



## vintagebike

As a fellow Thiokol 2100b owner I am
sure to need to refer to many of the pages of the tips, tricks and even the small mis-steps when ours finally goes under the resto lights, wrenches and hammers.


----------



## PJL

I always wondered how that grease filled adjuster works.  Mine is the same setup.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Oh yeah.
There is no sure fire solution on a machine of this age and complexity...The closest thing would be to do a "Blueprint" ground up restoration.

Sadly a lot of parts are simply not available any longer and must be made in-house....or farmed out.
I will have to say this.....Looking at the time line.....far more time is spent at the Drawing board and sitting at the cat measuring and working out solutions to problems than the actual time spent wrenching on things.

Then of course there are the change orders...."Build #1.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx " 
Some ideas are just simply wonderful on the drawing board.....but in the real world either cost too much or run into snags......OOOOPS something is in the way and will not fit.

The real world facts of being your own Engineer, fabricator, machinist, electrician, hydraulics tech oh and BEAN COUNTER

Then there is the little thing......called tooling..,...drill jigs, setup fixtures and that special cutter for the mill/lathe that you don't have and this list goes on.

But progress in any positive way is always satisfying......

Then nearly a day spent running across town to get the parts needed to repair a particular item you are working on.

Being close to a major metro area does help......
The internet is a godsend...

Still took nearly a month to get all the bearings for the OC12 resto.
But the cost savings was in the many many hundreds of $$$$$$
Actually more than that....One bearing listed at $700 and the ebay search landed one at my door for only $20.....but had to come from across the continent....others came from Europe....

VB
Keep the faith bro......
Your cat will live again.


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## Snowy Rivers

PJL said:


> I always wondered how that grease filled adjuster works.  Mine is the same setup.


They are the "CATTSASS"   
Many big dozers use a similar setup....
The ones on these rigs are pretty simple.

The one negative thing is the lack of any seal on the rod end to keep water and crap out.
The design obviously worked OK....But the nasty rusty mess in the one cylinder leaves me wondering about the possibility of adding a seal on the front end to keep water and crud out..

I think there is enough room just ahead of the snap ring to install a thin lip seal.
I am going to explore this idea .

Butttttttttttt.....these cats lived a long long life as they were mfg by the factory.

Now...one could always go to a stainless steel tube......Yeah...there goes the budget.

There was a post back a few years where a member was looking for seals for his cat.

These manufacturers used as much "off the shelf" stuff as they could in the build process and therefore this does make getting parts far easier even at this late date.
Another one of those "Go search it out things"


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## Snowy Rivers

A decent amount of work done today.....depending on ones view point.
Got the new cylinder done for the RH side..

I do not have a snap ring groove cutting tool....Decided to drill four 3/16" holes in the end of the cylinder and will install four 1/2" long roll pins.
This will work fine as a stop to prevent the piston from popping out of the cylinder.
The left hand adjuster slider was in sad shape.

Took some serious time at the hydraulic press, then to the big vice and some whupass with the 10 pound club to get the mounting ears back to where they should be....SORT OF

Then a trip to the mill to clean up a buttload of the extra weld that had been poured on....

A couple cracks found....way too windy to weld outside....Tomorrow it should be a lot less windy.

A couple pix of the new cylinder.

Next the new axle pivot mounting plates have to be cut, fit and machined to fit into the original slider assemblies.
Then the inner pivot tube, slider and such has to go in.

***ADDING A SECOND PIVOT POINT FOR THE AXLE and a second adjuster to keep the setup parallel to the front frame......


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## Snowy Rivers

Got serious about the adjust brackets.
Decided to bolt the two units together and then toss them in the mill and clean out the area where the axle fits.
These were just as burned out with the torch.....absolutely nasty.

Got the pair all evened up and matched well.

Then stuffed the boring head in and opened up the slot just enough to allow the new axle pivot tubes to fit in.
Next a pair of plates need to be machined to bolt into the slider brackets and ultimately weld in.
A second plate will weld on the inside of the slider.

A second tube similar to the one in the piccy will fit in a second bracket to hold the inside end of the axle.

Parts are looking much nicer than a few days ago...

Picked up the short roll pins for retaining the piston on the one new Adjuster cylinder.
The pins tap in nice and will be fine to make sure the piston can't pop out...


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## Snowy Rivers

Great weather is holding and good things are happening.
Best part is that the plan on paper is actually coming together in real time....

Picked up some 3/8"  x 4" flat bar to machine into the new axle tube bracket "Additions" to the original slider breackets

Got one part fit into the LH slider and the bolt holes drilled to fasten it in place..

Located the bore for the pivot tube and bored the hole.

The function of the bolts will be pretty much a moot point after the assembly is finished.....the new plates will get welded in place once everything is finally located where they need to be.

The pics show the longer outer tube slipped through the slider bracket and extending in towards the tub.
The inner shorter tube will fit onto the NEW inner slider (Yet to be fabricated)
The axle shaft will slide through the UHMW bushings that fit in the tubes.

Ordered a pair of 2" bore keyed weld hubs to go onto the inner end of the axle shaft and then the reaction arm will weld to the hub.
Hub  slips over a captive key in the shaft....and gets a bolt with a pilot end on it that retains the hub from sliding off the shaft.

The yellow round container sort of represents the air bag....size and such are similar.....

The white chalk mark on the frame is the approx inner edge of the track......

We may well be revisiting the idea of using the Timbren rubber units.....as these will take up less space than the air bag....and will be less vulnerable than the air bag as well.

We are moving ahead.....

Once we get the basics nailed down the other side will be a snap.

I needed something to hold the inner tube in its approximate location to mock it up....The box of CAT LITTER seemed appropriate...


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## Snowy Rivers

Gotta make a setup fixture to align the new axle tubes so that they are level side to side....and parallel to the frame.

I don't want to weld on the pivot tubes with the UHMW inside.....
Need some readily available bushings that will fit the shaft (2" EXHAUST TUBE IN THIS CASE FOR SET UP) 2 INCH SHAFT COLLARS WILL WORK.

Gotta head out and pick up some.


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## Snowy Rivers

Got the collars needed ....Machined them a touch to get things to fit...
Got after making some aligning fixtures to get the axle/s straight with the frame.

Grabbed some steel angle and a few other items...

Looking at the picture the cover plate behind the axle assembly has some bolts on the forward edge...

Going to bolt on a piece of steel flat bar 1/4" x 2-1/2 onto those bolts and once I get the axle set square and true I will tack weld a collar onto the steel flat bar to maintain the alignment of the axle while adding the inner bracket.....THEN TACK WELD STUFF UP.

Once its all tack welded....The assembly can come off and be finished welded......

Time consuming stuff.

I want to get the two front axles in COMPLETE ......Then once the axles are done....the cab needs to come back off to allow access into setting the drive shaft.......

The Diify can go back in soon too.

Just a few little things left to do on the diffy.....(Install the axle tubes and shafts is all....left them off for the winter to keep the beast from taking up so much room in the shop)


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## Snowy Rivers

Stuff coming together now.

Got a bit more steel and went after setting up more fixtures to jig everything in place while I tack stuff up.
(2) angle brackets with a nut and a 1/2" x 4" long bolt welded on....(Indication point to place the axle parallel to the main frame beam.

A flat bracket with a collar on it bolted to the cats tub......this holds the axle assembly right where it needs to be until all the parts are welded up....This bracket will go away once the fab work is done.

The inner pivot tube is now ready for the inner slider tube to be mated up....(Monday we will get more steel.

I can't find any seamless square tube without buying a butt load of it.....Decided to fabricate the sleeve that the inner slider fits into...
3"x3" x 1/4" angle will work...just mate them together and weld them up to end up with the slide into portion.

Standard 2-1/2" square tube will be the same as the stock outer slider...

Need to machine the plates that support the inner bushing tube and weld them to the slider tube....
TOOOOOO MANY TUBES......

Still thinking about the adjuster on the inner slider.....likely go with a threaded rod as it will be fairly easy to get to.

The hydraulic cylinder will carry the big load and the inner adjuster will keep the pair aligned and stop the inner assembly from trying to go in and out as the axle moves.....


Adjusting the assembly will take a bit of fooling with to get it spot on....May add some reference parts to measure from to get the assembly parallel.... It will come together.......A pair of key stock chunks on both sliders that will give a reference point...

Measure and adjust things to the same dimensions on both ???????

Some pics


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## Snowy Rivers

Well .... I do believe this plan is gonna work..

Machined the inner slide support plate and then welded up the entire outer track adjuster.

Removed the setup jig stand off bolts....

Decided to grab the actual axle assembly and get it slid into the assembly and take a peek.

OMG....DEFINITELY ALL WARM AND FUZZY.......

The polymer bushings still need to be finished.....but the steel MOCKUP collars are fine for a quick peek see.

Got the spindle jacked up into a close proximity to where it should be.....looks great.

The 4x4 block next to the tub is about where the inner slide assembly will fit in..

I ordered up the needed square bottom U BOLTS to fasten in the inner slider assembly.

I DO NOT WANT to weld across that frame section and change it completely.

As it stands a stock set of sliders and a standard front axle could be put back into the machine....Gonna keep that option.....never want to build yourself into a corner......

Tomorrow I will get materials to build the inner slider assembly.

The keyed hubs that fit to the axle shaft are on order.....The torsion arm (Contacts the Timbren biscuit) will weld to the hub.

The arm will have a fairly wide flat bar on top to allow the track adjusters to slide in and out and the Timbren to sit where it needs to.

The arm will probably end up being 1/2" flat plate 4" wide or so with a slight elbow in it bored to fit the hub  (Weld on at finial assembly to get location spot on)

Some pics


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## Snowy Rivers

Gathered materials for the inner adjuster assembly yesterday....
I was able to get the proper size/type of square tube to fabricate the slider parts,

I have to admit....I am still undecided on the choice between the air bag and the Timbren biscuit.....

The Timbren is less vulnerable to damage.....but there is ZERO adjustment.....This worries me..
The 2500 lb air bags can be aired up until the front axle just starts to lift the cat when it is sitting static......

After doing a lot of measuring yesterday ...there is plenty of room in the area to get the 6" diameter bags fit in......
I have worried about this idea based on the bag getting damaged......but possibly a shield around the bag on the side facing the edge of the track will be a plan.
Maybe I am over thinking this a bit ???

One things for sure....the front axle on these cats gets the hell beat out of them.....
Every axle I looked at as a possible replacement was beat to rat crap.....the torsion ends were all worn out and the plastic half bushings in the casting at the tube ends were wasted.

And these are not rebuildable ......
I want to be able to quickly, easily and cheaply refurbish the front axle on the beast....

Ah yessss......and so it goes.


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## Snowy Rivers

More work on the new axles today.
Got the major parts cut and fit......
Waiting on the U bolts I ordered to fasten the inner adjusters to the frame and the second axle.
I hope they get here before the good weather goes away for a while...


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## Snowy Rivers

Great news.
The U BOLTS I ordered for the inside slider/adjuster arrived last night sometime and I found this lovely little box on the deck by the back door........

Todays project is to get all the plates laid out and drilled and then do a temporary trial fit.....IF time permits.

Wet weather coming soon and all the new clean and unpainted materials need to be back inside so they don't rust up.....

Looks like today will be pretty decent working weather.....not nearly as warm as the past few days though.....

Glad to see those parts here....


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## Snowy Rivers

Definitely starting to look like what I had in mind.
Got the plates all drilled, the parts located and tack welded.....

The wind was howling today....makes mig welding a bitch....tomorrow should be better....

The one piccy shows the slider with a diagonal mark on it.  .....Yup...gonna cut that sucker off on a slope to match the original outside slider.

The inner slider is outside the orbit of the track....but not by a lot.

Going to slope the front of the slider and then smooth and round all edges to be sure IF THE TRACK SHOULD MANAGE TO GET OVER THAT FAR.....That it will not catch on anything and mess things up.

Removed the jigs.....Looks good me thinks.

Rain by late tomorrow.....Next will get things welded up more.....Cut the inside slider and weld in an end cover.

Then comes the air bag and brackets.


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## Snowy Rivers

Decided to make a little Change order......
Pawing through a cabinet looking for some stuff (Unrelated to the cat project) and stumbled across some herky urethane bushings....

Hmmmmm...Urethane bushings would be sweet to support the axle shaft on the cat front axle.

Instead of the HARD UHMW.....
Urethane is used a lot in suspension bushings these days....

So I called around and found an outfit that offers STOCK LENGTH urethane tube 12" long.

I need 3" OD X 2" ID
Perfect....They have it.....About $125 for 4 pieces.

This will make the entire setup much easier.

Will not need the grease seals.....Use silicone lube on the bushings.......The brass thrust washers at the ends of the bushing tubes.

Not really much of a change.....but I think it will be better overall......

No changes to the machined parts that are already done....


And so it goes.....

The sales gal asked me...."WHAT COLOR" ????? Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat.????

RED, BLACK, SAFETY ORANGE, GREEN, BLUE, YELLOW....OMG not going to be seen anyway......


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## Pontoon Princess

glad this task is done


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## Snowy Rivers

Getting closer for sure.     
I just don't want to build a "Bomb" thats gonna wind up failing on the trail....


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## Snowy Rivers

Got all the goody out of the nice weather today.

Decided to trim up the inside adjuster assembly before I removed it. (Don't want it rusting in the rainy days that are coming up)
Got the adjuster off, laid out and ....NO WAY TO CUT THE SUCKER.....TORCH...NOOOO WAY.....Thought about tossing it in the mill..
Too much fooling around to do it in the mill.

There had been some chatter here about the HAND HELD BAND SAWS....???????????????/
Stopped off at Harbor Freight and dragged home one of their little HAND HELD SAWS.
Damn....that sucker is a sweat heart.
They had them on sale too.......

If you don't have one of these of any brand in your shop.....stop off at the Harbor and grab one.
That bad boy made quick work of the cutting needed.....and they seem pretty well made too.
I got pretty rough with the blade trying to keep things where I wanted.....worked flawless...

I need to cut a piece of 1/4" X 2" flat bar and finish closing the end of the tube.

When the other side gets done I am going to cut the pieces to match this one before welding it up....

Far easier.....


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## Snowy Rivers

Had some decent time between rain showers....Got after building the ACTUAL adjusting mechanism for the inner track adjuster/axle support.
The little box tube with the semi circular cutout is the Adjusting nut housing.
There is a 1" steel plate that welds in the end with the cutout....the cutout is for the grease zerk to fit in.
The adjust nut gets machined from 1-1/2" hex stock and fits into the end plate.
The adjust nut assembly is held in by 2 Shoulder bolts in the outer slider tube.
A piece of 5/8" fine threaded rod gets the clevis on the front end.....Clevis slips onto a piece of flat bar that welds into the slider...to push/pull.

The nut assembly will be greasable to hopefully keep it operational...LONG TERM.
Tomorrow I will get more steel to make the rest of the parts....

The clevis is a standard class 8 truck brake part.....Easy to find...5/8" fine thread.


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## Snowy Rivers

Yesterday turned into a nasty mess.
A buddy called up and wanted some help on his Thiokol Spryte.....
Needed to drop the tracks and get at all the wheel bearings.....(Yeah....mostly shot..rusty...)

I get to his place and the cat is in the garage..
The first word I hear....HOW DO WE LOOSEN THE TRACK ADJUSTERS.

OMG...The adjusters are the manual type and things are rusted up tight as a bulls azz in fly time.

Did not want to get the torch in there to cut things...and damage the tracks.
I had to run back here to the shop and get my air die grinder and some cut off discs.
We spent a fair bit of time getting the old crap cut off.

Got the tracks dropped loose and my buddy went to work on the bearings.

Now....WHAT TO DO with the adjusters ?????

We are considering adding the grease cylinders to the machine.
Not that much work.....

This scenario brings things to mind that my idea of using a manual adjuster on my inner front axle setup may not be at all a good plan.

To make a pair of cylinders is a snap.
My old ones make great patterns to copy.
Simply and they work great......

I will let my buddy figure out his choice.

For the moment the adjuster plans for my machine are definitely not going towards the manual threaded type device...

The mess we encountered was not worth the effort to just replace it with same.


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## Snowy Rivers

Back at it.
After studying the relationship between the outer orbit of the inner track belt and the NEW INNER ADJUSTER.....It became somewhat troubling .....THERE DOES EXIST a slight possibility that under a worst case scenario the track could dive down and hit the adjuster...

The track sits about 2 inches away from the inner adjuster.....With the rig jacked up and the axles at the lowest point they can travel the track is about 1-1/2" above the top of the adjusters top tube.....

Soooooooooooooo...Decided to add a 4" x 4" x 1/8" box tube 6" long plus some "Wings" to bolt a piece of UHMW to.......This will act like a "Nerf bar" and "IF" the track were to dive down the top track belt will simply glide over the NERF and not hurt anything.

I do not trust the amount of parts and such flying about NOT to do something weird......

The entire assembly is looking pretty good....
I have not ordered the air bag assemblies as yet.

Thinking that tomorrow I will start building the fabrication for the RH side.
I still need to finish removing the old torsion bar and such from the spindle housing for the RH side axle.
I have the U BOLTS and most of the materials.
Still need to get the outer 3" x 3" slider tube.....

I can use the setup jigs and such to get the RH side as far along as the LH is now.....

Still contemplating just how the finished inside adjusters will end up......the grease cylinder seems like the plan.
The idea of a locking device of some sort to keep the axle from wanting to try and walk in and out seems like a plan....????

The 6" wide UHMW can be seen laying on the frame.
A heat gun and form the plastic....then two bolts on each wing...

JUST AN FYI....The orange on the parts is not paint.
Seems to be a reflection from the bright steel catching light off the tub..????? There is not any paint on these parts as yet.


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## Snowy Rivers

Decided to try a mechanical track adjuster setup on the new inner track adjusters.
The plan sort of came together the other day....decided to sketch it up....Awe hell....lets make it.
Machined up the parts and welded stuff together.
Unit  slides into the outer tube ....has a threaded rod that connects to the inner axle support and an adjuster unit.
The adjuster was simple enough.
A sleeve with the threaded portion inside of a tube that slides into the main support tube.

We shall see just how well it works....I fitted the beast up with a greasing device to help keep the threaded rod and the adjust from rusting.
One 3/8 grade 8 bolt secures the adjuster into the unit....If it goes south.....simple to pull the bolt and slide the entire unit out.....


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## Snowy Rivers

Spent a short time today adding a "Donkey Wheel" out front on the LH assembly to make certain that the track can't interfere in a worst case scenario 
A similar setup can be seen on the Pisten Bully in a couple key places near the front road wheel.....


The little wheel stud is welded in.....still need to add a couple gussets....need to wait until the inner bushing tube is located and welded....

The little idler is courteous of a snowmobile I owned back in 1979....These were still on the shelf....
Easy to replace and pretty sturdy.....
Noe they have a job....


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## Snowy Rivers

Been a bit slow around here...at least as far as the cat goes.
Other stuff got in the way.....

Finally got back at it today.
Cleaned up the shop and got a big bunch of plastic TUBS, TOTES, STORAGE BOXES and gathered up all the parts for the cat......
Bench actually has a top that can be seen now..

Cut the steel pieces for the RH front axle inner adjuster assembly......
Tomorrow if all goes well I will get the holes drilled in the frame mounting plates for the inner adjuster.

Sure nice being able to find all the bits and pieces and have a fairly neat work area.

YES IT WAS A REAL CHITHOLE.....


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## Snowy Rivers

Decided to move to the RH side and get it caught up to where the LH front side is now.
The Spindle/casting cut off has been on the table out in front of the cat for quite a while.

I had chopped it off a used axle last fall...

By the looks of things (Welds) it had been re-welded .....

Tossed that bad boy in the vise and buffed off the rust and grunge......
Next it was to the mill to get the old weld chopped off and find the joint between the casting and the torsion bar....

That center bar is HARD....chips come off blue or red.....

Got the break lines showing all the way....to the press and shove out the old bar.....The LH one took 50 tons to get it loose.....this one was pushing my 20 ton to the limit.....but it came out..... 


Off to the mill to get the back end of the casting square with the hub ( It is as cast....)

Then flip the sucker over and into the table vise.

Indicate the square bore (Best I could) stuffed in the boring head and let it rip.
The square bore leaves things with an interrupted cut .....so its a slow slog....Light cuts and slow speed..

The casting is not hard.....but still very good material.
Chewed on this sucker until the bore measured 1.993"
The new shaft is 1.9975" (2" cold rolled steel)

Finished deburring and it's ready to go on the new shaft.....

Gonna heat that bad boy up hotter than hell and damnation and slip it onto the shaft......

Good to go.

Some pics of the spindle as I cut it apart.
The torsion unit was Fubar'd
The inner nylon guide bushing...JUNK
The axle tube was cracked badly too....
The outer split bushing was still in fair shape.....

The spindle proper is lovely......

One spot on the casting showed a nerf where one of the axle bolts had come loose....no worries....weld it up and dress it off with the grinder...... (LH side near the back of the spindle while in the mill to cut the back square....the nerf is apparent)

Overall the spindles (RH LH) are great parts and will give years of service......


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## Snowy Rivers

Finally got the notice that the last six "Snowflake" wheel centers were ready to pick up....

Got them suckers home.

These will give us plenty with a few extras on the shelf....


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## Snowy Rivers

Got a call from Griffith Polymer earlier today.
The custom urethane bushings were ready to be picked up.

3" OD X 2" ID......36" LONG (CUT TO SUIT)
Ordered two 36" pieces....They have a $100 minimum order and 1 piece would make the needed bushings....but two pieces were $166....Will make a spare set.

This is 95A scale urethane.(Same durometer as the common urethane spring bushing that are sold by the 4x4 parts guys in the ENERGY suspension brand)
It cuts really nice in the band saw.

All ready to slip in and go to work.


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## Snowy Rivers

Not much happening today.
Started working on the RH inner track adjuster....Then the weather went south.
Soft hail balls 1" in diameter and rain....wind.
Crazy weather.
34 F this morning......Cold for late May...


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## Snowy Rivers

With the weather being nasty...Decided to get after the 400 inch Small block and get it ready.

I tapped the 3 oil passages in the front (Cam galleries) for 1/4" pipe plugs.....The little soft plugs literally fell out when I ran  rod down the passages....

Tapped holes will be far better..Blue Loctite will keep the plugs in fine.....

Got that job done and then loaded the block up and hauled it off to Machine shop.
A couple cylinders have some rust thats a tad deeper than surface rust.

Want to make sure that the holes will clean up at .030" OS before I trip the trigger on the new pistons.....

While the block is at the shop they can stuff in a set of cam bearings.......

Should know wasssssup in a few days......


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## Snowy Rivers

The word came back today......The one ugly cylinder cleaned up at .020" OS..
The next step is to get the .030" OS slugs coming.....


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## Snowy Rivers

Weather good
Back at the Fab work on the RH track adjuster/axle set up.
Got the add on plate bored to fit into the original adjuster to allow the new tube to weld in.
The plate bolts in to locate it.....then will weld in after everything is all dialed in.
The LH mate to the assembly for comparison.
Also going to add a small gusset in the corner...(Cardboard template in the pic)
The add on plate bored and bolted in place....New pivot tube slips in real nice.
 The inner plate is shown without the hole bored..

Tomorrows job....rain is back....


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## Snowy Rivers

In the shop watching the rain come down and listening to the mill running away.

Certainly not the most fun part of this project for sure....

Got the last parts that needed to be bored to allow fabricating the New RH track adjuster completed.

A real Boring job...NO PUN INTENDED.

Stuff looks good.
Sadly the original outer adjuster was not the original parts....or at least not all of it anyway.....But earlier I was able to get both of the outer adjusters machined to at least match each other.
Now the new parts should keep both axles looking at each other....(Straight and level)

Some pics
The inner adjuster tube side plates (Still need to have 2 corners trimmed off )
The outer assembly looks good and the new parts fit well......
Next comes jigging it all up and then welding stuff together.

The inner adjuster tube needs the end cut on an angle for clearance  (Scribe line can be seen in the piccy)


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## Snowy Rivers

Life is good.
Got shipping / tracking on the new pistons, cam bearings and a couple other goodies for the 406.....
Building an engine one nut bolt and screw at a time is fun...yeah right.

I got very little in the way of parts with the 400 block.
Timing cover and the balancer was about it.
Slowly scraping the rest together.
Need standard push rods.
Oil pump and bolt and oil pickup tube
Pump drive shaft.
Got the large oil pan and bolts...
Here is hoping the Vortec heads are good......
4 bolt valve covers on the vortec are good to go
All the front serp brackets and such are all on the Vortec....Fan and such too are there
Need the externally balanced flex plate and crank bolts.
Need front crank snout bolt and washer
Need a fresh large cap HEI distributor...
Exhaust manifolds in the cat on the 305 are new...good there

Indeed a "Frankenmouse"


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## Snowy Rivers

Got more fab work done on the RH axle/track adjuster assembly yesterday....

Got  the jigs from the LH side all lined up and clamped in place.....

Stuffed the new pieces in and let them all fall into place....
Looking promising.....
The outer assembly (Original part plus the new pivot tube) all lined up really well

With as much damage as was done to the original axle....I am really surprised that the frame did not sustain any damage.

The main frame on the 2100 is definitely stout.

The outer assembly is pretty well welded up now.

Tomorrow the inner slider tube gets trimmed on an angle and the side plates as well.

Then the inner adjuster can come together......

Some pics.

The bracket bolted to the tub is just a guide jig to keep the assembly aligned during the fabrication process....Same as we did on the LH side.


With the axle and spindle/casting ready to go this thing can come together pretty quick now.

A bit more welding and then the new parts can be cleaned and painted......then the bulk of it can be bolted onto the cat.....Hopefully for the final time.....


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## Snowy Rivers

Another leap forward (Small leap)
Inner slider tube pretty well assembled (Just need to locate the pivot tube once the air bag arm can be fitted.
Brass thrust washers go in the assembly in 4 places.
After things cooled off I grabbed the polymer bushings and stuffed them into the lash up to have a peek see.

Oh yeah buddy......this is looking good.

Going to be good support on the axle shaft.....

Sitting there the last couple days looking at things got me to thinking......Having the panel off to mount the setup bracket let me look at the side of the oil pan (Hole was cut by the PO to gain access to the starter.....)
I cleaned up the GAWD awful mess and added the frame and cover plate....

The original oil pan sump dropped into a deep pocket in the tub.....The little Chevy pan sump is in the rear......

The 305 pan clears the bottom of the tub by about 3/4"
I bought a gated road race pan for the 406.....and it is 7-1/2" from the rail to the bottom of the sump

I crawled down and took a peek at the pan and the tub...decide to grab a tape measure and get a visual on the actual distance from the pan rail to the floor of the tub.   8-1/4"    (The engine sits parallel to the floor of the tub)
Sweeeeeet
Planning to remove the old sump in the tub.......It is about 8" deep (Ford 391)
Just something more to crash into stuff hanging below the tub like it does.....

The one access cover got a revamp last summer to clean the mess up....and it allows a good chance of being able to replace the starter ......
Going to use the mini starter used on the Vortec pickup engine (68 TOOTH FLEX PLATE)

Very small and fits the 400 easily  (Angle bolt pattern)

The new battery tray is just aft of the engine above the starter... fastened to the top flange of the tub.....Very close and easy to get power to the starter and also the cab.....

Trying hard to keep this FrankenCat from being a real BASTARD to work on...


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## Snowy Rivers

The hay season is about here and the Vortec 350 parts engine was in the way to back the big trailer inside to unload hay.....

Dragged that beast out and ripped it apart.
HEADS OFF.
SERP DRIVE ALL OFF
Gained several needed parts......bolts and such
Head bolts are good shape...standard grade 8 washer headed stuff
Crank pulley/balancer bolt and washer...
Heads look good....will snoop at them tomorrow for any issues.......
All the serp drive parts are sweet.....all the factory bolts nuts and such....1998 version is a lovely addition to the project.....
Valve covers are good shape (4 center bolt type)

Gonna try to sell off the short block and extra stuff thats not needed.


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## Snowy Rivers

Houston.....do you copy....C'mon.

We came home to a Widdle box on the steps.

WE HAVE PISTONS FOR THE 406 CAT ENGINE.
The look great.....Checked all 8 of them for any travel damage....GOOD TO GO.
So now we can bore the block and get the rods and pistons intimate......

Busy today so no cat work happened....But I managed a few minutes to dream up a little jig to drill the steam holes in the Vortec heads.

For anyone not familiar with the Small block 400 Chevy....These beasts have siamese cylinder bores (No coolant flows between)
The block has 6 "steam" holes ...2 between each of the inner bores so coolant can purge through and not make steam pockets.

The original heads have these.....The vortec heads will bolt right on.....just have to use the 400 gasket as a guide and drill the holes in the heads. (3/16" max diameter)

I am going to make an aluminum fixture (1" X 2" bar) and machine it so the two center bolts will allow the fixture to bolt to the block and then drill through the holes and through the head deck.....

One hole must be on an angle of about 15 degrees or so towards the exhaust port...and the other is straight through.

Using a fixture will allow doing this job with a hand drill.....

Yessssssssssssssssssss......I'm getting excited.


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## Snowy Rivers

Hmmmmmm

Thought I posted a piccy of the shiny new pistons

There we go......
Gonna look better when they are peeking out of the holes in the block


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## Snowy Rivers

Got a fella wanting that Vortec short block SOON
So decided to clean the heads up and see if they were good.

Yanked out the valves/springs a pair at a time and have a peek see.

Everything looks great...No cracks between the seats, not anything presenting elsewhere either...

Valve stems are very nice fit in the guides too.....

The plan is to take the heads back apart and clean things well...then do a light lap job between the valves and seats to freshen them.

They simply do not need anything more than this.
Fresh set of guide seals and it's off to the rodeo.

I feel very pleased that these Vortec heads were not junk....
The urban legends say that Vortec heads....although great power makers tends to be junk as they age.

So we are good to go there.


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## western auto

Snowy Rivers said:


> Got a fella wanting that Vortec short block SOON
> So decided to clean the heads up and see if they were good.
> 
> Yanked out the valves/springs a pair at a time and have a peek see.
> 
> Everything looks great...No cracks between the seats, not anything presenting elsewhere either...
> 
> Valve stems are very nice fit in the guides too.....
> 
> The plan is to take the heads back apart and clean things well...then do a light lap job between the valves and seats to freshen them.
> 
> They simply do not need anything more than this.
> Fresh set of guide seals and it's off to the rodeo.
> 
> I feel very pleased that these Vortec heads were not junk....
> The urban legends say that Vortec heads....although great power makers tends to be junk as they age.
> 
> So we are good to go there.


they are good heads they just dont usually survive an overheat


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## Snowy Rivers

I would agree.....
The castings are thinner than the old "Bricks" used in decades past.

Now here is a question I am hearing multiple answers for...

HEAD BOLTS
The bolts that came out of the Vortec are marked with the standard 6 marks in the head indicating a grade 8 bolt.

GM says that the bolts are to be torqued to 20 ft lb and then using a torque angle meter tightened to so many degrees more
55" on the small bolts, 65" on the medium bolts and 75" degrees on the long ones.

The net is full of statements on these bolts being TORQUE TO YIELD "TTY" 
GM TECH bulletin says the bolts may be reused as long as they are in good condition and the threads are not damaged or the bolts stretched....

The L31 VORTEC head bolts look just like the head bolts that small block Chevies have used for many decades.

We used to torque to 20 lbs on pass 1........45 lbs on pass 2 and then finish with 65 lbs on pass 3

After reading the writeup on the reason for using the torque angle meter .....it makes sense that tightening a specified amount more past the 20 lb pass 1 will put the tension where the engineers think they want it......Every threaded hole is different and torque readings can vary from what the actual tension needed is in the real world.

I am quite familiar with TTY bolts and have replaced them in several engines that use them....

From what I can glean from all the articles on the subject....There seems to be a lot of folks that believe that just because the mfg says to use a Torque angle meter that the bolts are TTY.

This makes a simple job far tougher than it needs to be......


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## Snowy Rivers

Weather was good today (At least for working)
More Fab and machine work on the RH Axle adjuster assembly.

Getting most of the major stuff done on the RH unit.
Tomorrow it's time to machine the actual threaded adjuster unit......

Things are pretty much up to the same level as the LH unit is.

With the rain and crap weather I have had stuff on and off to keep the new bright metal from rusting.

Some pics


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## Snowy Rivers

More work today.

Dug the chunk of brass tube outta the rig....Got it in the saw....Takes about 20 minutes to make a nice clean cut.....minimal taper.
Part is within .010"

Toss in the lathe, trim to .500" thick...bore the inside to 2.002" 
The brass washers go between all the thrust surfaces.

The black round hub is keyed and was originally designed to weld a sprocket to.
The air bag arm will get machined and welded to the hub.
The arm is 2" x 4" x 1/4" Rectangle tube.......
The RED urethane bumper is a Jeep Wrangler suspension bumper......

The Bag arm lays against the bumper when the spindle (Front bogie) is all the way in the down position (Axle off the ground)

Air bag kit ordered this morning.....
Can't go much farther without the bag and brackets .......

The pics for the most part are self explanatory...

The actual axle shaft is in there this time through.

The spindle/casting needs to be heated up hotter than hell and damnation and slipped onto the shaft and then welded.

For now....having that heavy chunk off the axle makes life a tad easier........

The two center brass washers are being held apart by a piece of Exhaust tube.....(I may machine a heavier tube to go in this spot....but the exhaust tube will actually do fine......Just keeps the two adjuster units apart.........

Not shown well...there are marks on the inner slider tube showing where two 1/2" lock bolts will go in to keep the inner adjuster from rattling up and down... (Two nuts weld onto the tube and the bolts thread in to place pressure on the adjuster......

With any luck this will keep the assembly from rattling around....


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## Snowy Rivers

The air bag kit should be here tomorrow.....If ya believe the tracking #####
Picked up the material for the air bag arms today.

2" x 4" x 3/16" tube.
The tube lays parallel to the cat tub and becomes part of the hub assembly that slides onto the axle shaft.

The hub (Black part just outside the tub on the inner end of the axle shaft)..... is keyed to the shaft with a 1/2'" steel key and has a 3/8" hole drilled through the hub and shaft.....A grade 8 bolt goes through the entire assembly to keep the entire assembly together.

One little fly in the ointment.......While looking at the assembly I discovered that getting things all together on the cat were not going to be possible because of the bag arm and the captured key...

Once the final fab work is finished the entire assembly will need to come off the cat (The inner and outer sliders....the inner bolt on assembly stays on the cat)

The assembly will need to be put together on the floor in it's entirety and then slipped into the frame.....the hydraulic adjuster and the mechanical inner adjuster attached at this point.

The air bag and it's brackets can go on after the other equipment is on the frame.
The one piccy shows a black area near the rear of the bag arm.

There will be a slot in the tube.....BOTH SIDES   The lower air bag perch will be able to slide fore and aft to adjust the bags location and keep it aligned to a vertical position after the tracks are tightened up...

I want the air bag parts here to get a good feel for position before we go farther with the build.......

The yellow chocolate jug is close to the air bags size.....Looks good.
The lower bag perch that comes with the kit will need some modifications....OH YEAH.....

I am thinking that a sheet metal shield to protect the bag may well be in order.

The bag should be plenty far away from the bag ....BUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT.....????


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## Snowy Rivers

Got a wild hair this morning to get the spindle housing on the axle and welded up.
Polished the shaft , added some never seaze on the shaft...Heated the spindle housing up hotter than Hell and damnation .....Figured the unit would slide right on.....Yeah right.

About half way and stuck...
Tried a 5 pound club...nope..no joy.

I let the sucker cool off and came back after breakfast.....

Stuff the axle in the 20 ton press and went after it......I got it within 1/8" of the outer end of the hole.....nope, not going to budge.

Dragged the beast over to the truck shop and we put it in their 50 ton press....Damned well know it moved....

Got the shaft about 1/4" past the end of the casting and called it good......

Lined the hub up with the other axles and then machined a heavy brass spacer from the same material the other thrust washers were made of to keep the assembly where it needs to be......

Some pics 

Wet weather coming tomorrow....No outside work for a few days me things.

The air bag kit showed up at the post office...Gotta stop and get it tomorrow..


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## Snowy Rivers

Air bags showed up.
Got them bad boys out of the box....Cute


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## Snowy Rivers

An interesting twist to things took place yesterday.

Chatting with an old friend who's sons are big time into the off road scene......
The subject of onboard air  was being kicked around, which perked my ears up..

The boys had just bought some modified Sanden AC pumps that work sweet as air compressors..
This subject really got my interest as the steering on the cat was heading towards an air system, but the electric pumps are just a tad sketchy, they draw a buttload of power....and they are spendy.

Enter the recently purchased Vortec parts I gathered up for the 406 engine.

The serpentine brackets use a Delphi HT6 compressor.....Sanden makes a direct replacement for that pump in their own line.....

A better pump too..

The mods consist of removing the back head and plugging the oil flow passage to the front end of the pump with a 1/4" set screw loctited in.

Then the front end is removed and the entire assembly is cleaned of refrigerant oil and the area is packed with synthetic grease to lubricate the swash plate, pistons and bearings..  (Thin grease  CV-2)

The oil fill plug in the side is drilled and tapped for a grease zerk.....

Reassemble the unit and good to go.

The reports of users seems to be very positive.......

Best part is this bad boy will bolt right onto the bracket that is going back onto the new power plant.

The air valves for steering are already in the cab and several other parts are on the shelf......

I had really thought about scrapping the air system in favor of using hydraulics off the power steering pump.

The cost for the hydraulic valves and other items was not gonna be inexpensive AT ALL....

Air is by far easier to use....and if you spring a leak.....fix the leak and pump up the system......

So I ordered up a Sanden pump.....

Having air on the cat will be nice to take care of the air ride on the front axle.....plus horns and such

The boys I spoke of bought their pumps from Extreme outback....
Well..... I can do the little mods in that pump quite handily.....and not fork out nearly $500.....

We shall see how well this little gizmo works.......


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## Snowy Rivers

Back at it this morning.

Got the RH axle all fitted up to cut the key way for the air bag arm hub....
Needed a few things from town and wanted to get the pistons and such over to the shop so the block can be bored and such....

So we get to the shop and discuss what we are going to do....Piston clearances and such.

I grabbed a piston pin and a rod to see how snug the pin fit was...

OMG that sucker slid right into the rod top end.

These are press fit pins...
I have no idea what went on there.....The rods were all resized.....and I can't believe the other shop did not check the pin bores.,...

Anyway....RODS ARE JUNK.

BUT THE SILVER LINING IN THE BLACK CLOUD....MY MACHINIST JUST HAPPED TO HAVE A COMPLETE MATCHED SET OF 400 SBC RODS IN GOOD SHAPE...$40.....

So at least I did not have to screw around hunting down another set of rods.

Later we stop off at the steel yard and there is a pickup out front with KASSBOHRER on the door.....SNOWCAT ON THE BACK FENDER.

Fella came out and I struck up a conversation.

The outfit is only 10 miles from my place.....

We trucked on over and got a cool tour of the outfit.....

Got to check out a new 600 PB and some smaller machines.

Here is the guys bizz card....if anyone needs Piston Bully goodies 
The PB is one stout machine......


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## Snowy Rivers

RH axle is coming together really well.
One small change order had to be made to allow things to be assembled easily.

Getting the air bag arm in turned out to be more of a pain than I had originally thought....but a simple notch in the inner most thrust washer allows the assembly to be slid in from the outside with the key in the shaft and the inner bushing slid towards the center enough to allow the bag arm to slip in and the thrust washer slipped in with the "added slot" in the washer....

The entire assembly became easy to manage...

The center tube between the inner thrust washers has been removed and a pair of split collars added with a half tube welded to the top halves of the split collars to keep the spacing correct.

The inner thrust assembly now comes out to allow the easy assembly of the entire axle unit.


Tomorrow the axle shaft gets a 1/2" threaded hole in the end and the bag arm gets two 3/8" tapped holes on the inner flange .....

These tapped holes allow the use of a pair of push pull tools to get the bag arm on and off the axle shaft easily without a club.....

Sound complicated....not yet....but I'm working at it.....

After the bag arm tools get done....then the air bag itself gets into the action and we shall see how the bag is going to fit into things in the real world....
The brackets are pretty much a universal set up.....made for pickups....Some modifications required...

This entire arrangement should make for a very sound front suspension.......


I WILL BE GLAD WHEN THIS STUFF IS DONE....

The location of the air bag is farther back than I would have liked....but the starter access port and the exhaust access port just would not permit it to be any closer to the front...

But at least both sides can be made the same......


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## Snowy Rivers

More work done on the RH axle
The push pull bolt holes drilled and tapped.
The unit reassembled and the air bag positioned SORT OF WHERE IT WILL GO.....
Gotta fool with the bag and brackets to get the angle of the dangle right.

Likely going to need to make the lower bracket a pivoting item, to allow the bag to swing and stay straight.

WE SHALL SEE.

The two brass thrust washers in the middle under the goat wheel are where the new split collars will go with a 1/2 round tube welded between.

The design change worked great.....the shaft slides in sweet....insert the key then back the assembly up until the bag arm fits in.....add in the brass washer with the notch and pull the bracket onto the shaft with the draw bolt.....

The new collars will be here in a few days.

Exactly how the final incarnation of the air bag bracket will end up is still a guess.....But some cardboard mock up and major imagineering should gitterdone.

The big guess is getting the connection of the bag lower perch to the bag arm such that the track adjuster slides and allows the perch to be adjusted to "The sweet spot"......The bag can not be allowed to shift sideways.....A slight accordion bend can work.....

The 1/2" grade 8 bolt in the bag arm shaft boss is only to keep the arm from shifting on the shaft....THRUST

The 1/2" key in the shaft does the heavy lifting and deals with the torque of the arm.

Some pics


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## Snowy Rivers

ONE MORE PICCY


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## Snowy Rivers

BAG GETTING IN THE ACTION NOW....
The fit came out far better than one could ask for...(You can ask.....rarely get it though)

The bag mount snuggled up well right under the front cab mount on the tub......the one bolt that catches the battery tray is easily accessed above the bag mount.....Pure accident.....yeah it was....

I compressed the bag fully and screwed a pipe plug into the air feed port......This gave a good idea of where we were on things with the bag at full compressed......

The lower bag perch is pretty well going to do what I want it too.
The perch needs some mods....as does the bag arm.

Bag arm is coming off again and a bit of work near the rear end of it to cut out a long notch on an angle to give a bit more room for the perch to articulate as the arm raises.

We may be able to get a touch more travel on the spindle too.....

The ratio of the spindle housing to the bag arm is such that the throw is not what I would really like.....but these things happen and any easy remediation is not forth coming due to the stuff up front thats in the way.......Chit happens...


The bag mount bolts to the tub with four 3/8" bolts....current plan is to add a small piece of angle to the outer edge of the top outer portion of the mount just outboard of the air inlet port and sneak it up and let it share the front bolt on the cab mount.

Already there, and in a very good place to tie things together and keep the area strong.....with the cab mount tubes directly above the air bags....life is good.......

Some pics..

Oh yeah....this bad boy is going to change a bit more before the paint hits it.....but it's getting where I want it.......

And yess...we will make the other side just the same.... referencing the front cab mount bolt hole as a datum point.

It would have been nice to have been able to keep the bag arm much shorter.....life sucks some times eh ???? 

Pics


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## Snowy Rivers

Not much done today....not for the lack of wanting.....Broke the blade on the saw.....nobody had any decent blades in stock.

Finally landed a couple blades this afternoon late.

Back at it...

Got the brass thrust washers cut for the left side axle....(While the blade was fresh)
Cut the outer bag support brackets too...

Bolt hole drilled and the bracket fit.......bag removed and the assembly can be tacked up now.
That and other stuff can wait until tomorrow.

Cool thing did happen....while were were out searching for a saw blade we stopped at a garage sale.....scored a nice little two bolt bar puller in nice shape.....It will work perfectly to remove the bag arm from the axle shaft......  $3 ....NUFF SAID....A good day....


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## Snowy Rivers

Short day today....Domestics ya know.

Got the new little puller on the bag arm....Sweeeeeeeeet....works like a charm.....

Did the cope job on the arm to provide a tad more room for the lower bag perch to articulate as the arm goes through the arc .....

The latest plan is to add a solid bar inside the tube about 6" long that the pivot bolt on the bag perch will go through.....just about centered.  The bar will spread the load out over the bottom of the beam......

The center bar gets a threaded adjuster rod/and double nut.

The adjuster will keep the bag perch right on location once adjusted (After track adjustment is where it needs to be)

Next the arm goes back on and the bag/perch get looked at seriously and the perch gets massaged a bit.
Side plates....and a couple spacers to keep the assembly straight....

The bag arm gets a slot cut (Both sides) to allow for the assembly to move with the track adjustment and the bag to stay correctly positioned....
THIS PLAN HAS BEEN COOKING FOR A WHILE.....

Looking at the area that needed to be notched in the bag arm.....The sharp corner at the front end of the cut.....going to fish plate that area on both sides and perform a trick to hopefully eliminate any crack issues......

Seems that nearly every cat has something that cracks.....

OLD RACE LOGIC....."IF IT AIN'T MOVING....SOMETHING IS BREAKING" 

A little flexing is fine.....to a point.
Get a crack.....weld it up and pile on the iron.....CRACK GOES SOME PLACE ELSE......USUALLY A WORSE PLACE........


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## Snowy Rivers

Plugging away at it.
The air bag mount is just about completed....The lower bag mount needs to get drilled for the cross bolt.
I got some plumbing parts and a schrader valve to air up the bag.....

Set the bag at 8" high (Max spec.)
Some fiddling with the adjustments to get the location of the slot in the bag arm correct.

Measured the adjustment cylinder (Grease) and set the location of both the inner and outer adjusters at MINIMUM and welded a chunk of key stock on the sliders to be a minimum stop.....

Some pics

Pic 5 from the left has a good shot of the little Goat Wheel.(Safety idler) for the inner front of the track as it rounds the front road wheel....
Adjacent to the air bag lower mount is the little platter that gets a UHMW piece that serves to keep the track from sagging or ??? down into the inner adjuster assembly.....

The extra baggage that came with the redesigned version of the axle created some interesting WHAT IF scenarios....

I think the bases have been covered by now......I DO HOPE SO.....


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## Snowy Rivers

TO DAMNED HOT OUTSIDE TO WORK ON THE CAT..100 F PLUS ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH

Did get a package today though in the mail....

The 4 split collars that will form the center axle spacers came.....

As soon as this heat wave abates....the center spacers for the axle adjusters can be fabricated.

Staying cool at this point.

Gonna try getting out at the butt crack of dawn tomorrow and seeing what can get done.....


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## Snowy Rivers

Well the plan to be on the cat at THE BUTT CRACK OF DAWN...GOT SCUTTLED.
Son in law called up and shared the bad news...their AC took a dump...

With 110 to 115 F expected today...NOT GOOD.

After we discussed the issue I was near certain that the run capacitor on the compressor had gone south....

Head on over and we rip the cap out....
A quick check.
45/5 440 volt cap.
The 5 part was sweet at 4.99 uF (Microfarads)

The 45 part was at .73.....DEAD PLAYER.

Nobody has a cap on a Sunday.
They found a local HVAC fella that had some parts....NOT EXACTLY RIGHT ....But was able to jury rig 2 caps to obtain what was needed.
$325 and their house is cooling off nicely again.....

To bloody hot outside to go out and work......

Maybe tomorrow morning.....
The excess heat is supposed to moderate in a day or so....


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## vintagebike

Ever thought of doing a reality show?  “Snowy, On the Loose”


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## Snowy Rivers

Been more like "Smile...you're on candid camera" around here.

Any time something goes buzzwhack.....my phone rings.
The daughter knows my experience with just about most things mechanical, electrical and plumbing.

Yeah.....would make an interesting show.

Never fails......Sunday....or weee hours and chit breaks.


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## Snowy Rivers

Nothing done the past couple days....AT ALL.....Yesterday it was 91 F outside at 5 am and by 5 pm it was 109 F

I hate hot weather with a passion.....and this was just nuts..

The heat broke last night with a stiff West wind and 63 F this morning.
With luck things can get back to a more normal pace.....


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## Snowy Rivers

COOL WEATHER TODAY........69 F as I write this.....YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS better than the 109 F Monday...

GOT THINGS GOING ON TODAY TOO...

Back to work on the RH front axle......

The assembly needed to come apart twice today for machining and more design work.
There will likely be a few more together and apart go rounds before the paint hits the steel......

The red urethane  bottom stop was near the rear of the bag arm....moved it.....gonna move it back to where I had it.....

Machined the slots in the bag arm for the lower perch to slide on a 1/2" grade 8 bolt.
Needs to be a slight bit of machining in the rear portion of the lower bag perch to allow some clearance.....

The next step is to build the lower bag perch adjuster bar assembly.

This bar goes inside the bag arm and has a 1/2" threaded rod  that allows the bar to slide fore and aft.
The bolt that holds the lower perch passes through the inner bar.

This allows the perch to be located in the best position once the track is adjusted......

With the lower perch located correctly the bag will be nearly straight up and down with only a slight arching to the bag as it nears the fully compressed position .....(Bag arm full up position....bag compressed )

The stop arrangement to arrest the bag arm at it's full up position is still on the drawing board.

At present the only easy to execute plan is a CHAIN with a eye bolt and a urethane biscuit attached and adjustable to restrain the arm at the upper most position.

Big issue with this entire assembly is the fact that it is adjustable 4-1/2" forward to tighten the track......and everything connected with the assembly MUST GO ALONG FOR THE RIDE and stay in it's proper orientation.....

Not difficult.....just a PITA to get all the little parts to talk to one another is all.

The lower bag perch inner adjuster has been on the sketch pad for a few days now.......And I finally came up with an idea to allow ease of adjustment and an easy way to build it.....  Must be able to be adjusted with a GEAR WRENCH from the rear side of the assembly....and be totally removable.....

Came up with a slotted bracket that the adjuster nut slips into and has a cotter pin through the top to retain the nut assembly.

Then a standard 1/2" nut to jam the assembly once it is adjusted to suit.

I will get pics of this stuff as the parts get machined....

Actually pretty simple little gizmo.....


I have to say this.....without the mill and the lathe this would not be possible......just too many special parts.....


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## Snowy Rivers

Got in the machine shop early this morning and started gathering parts for the bag perch adjuster assembly

I had made a similar unit for the inner track adjuster and made a change to the design (Longer) and the original one was laying on the bench.....perfect for this application....Actually needed to shorten it a bit.

The nut is a 1" with the threads bored out...Nut slides onto the nut unit and gets welded at the outer end.

Headed to town and picked up more steel to finish the adjuster bracket on the bag arm.
Some 1-1/2" X 2" steel tube for the inner bar that goes inside the arm.

Got some domestics this afternoon...not much going to happen the rest of the day....

A few pics of the little machined part.

Decided that using 5/8" threaded rod would be acceptable since we already had the one part nearly complete anyway.....A bit overkill...Oh well


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## Snowy Rivers

Bag arm back off the axle "AGAIN" and in the vice to work on the perch adjuster assembly.....
Machining....more fooling and tweaking to get things working smoothly......

The original plan called for an 8" long bar to slide inside the bag arm ( 1-1/2" X 2" x 8" ) but the size was a bastard.....and nothing available at the yard.
Found some box tube the right size.....BINGO....Welded a small piece of flat bar in the end with a hole for the threaded rod to go.
Welded a nut on the end of the assembly.....add a jam nut to keep the rod indexed.....Will Loctite the thread rod at final assembly...

The idea is to make the rod replaceable if need be.....(The inner tube can slide out the front of the bag arm)
Originally I had thought of slotting the adjuster nut mounting tab and caging the adjuster nut assembly with a cotter pin or ?????

Screw it.....Bored a 1-1/8" hole...inserted the nut parts and welded it together......IT CAN BE CUT MID SPAN ON THE BIG NUT AND REMOVED IF REQUIRED TO BE REPLACED LATER......Liberal application of grease to the threads periodically should give this unit a good life span......

The bag perch has two spacers to set the perch at the correct distance from the Cat tub ( Top and bottom bag ends are looking at each other.....inner spacer is narrower than the outer one to get things where they need to be)

Tested the travel of the adjuster from end to end.....Smooth as a babies butt..........  

Tomorrow the arm goes back on the axle.....Bolt goes through the perch as it is in the RH PICCY NYLOCK ON THE BACK NEXT TO THE TUB........With the lower perch fastened to the bag the entire bag assembly can bolt back to the cat chassis.....Then the arm can be assembled to the axle easily without having to deal with the bag being attached to the arm (WE TRIED IT THAT WAY A COUPLE TIMES.....BULL SH**  too much work dealing with all the parts together...... THAT ARM IS NOT LIGHT)


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## Snowy Rivers

Reassembled the axle components this morning early.
Looks great....

Went in the shop to get some tools.....The machine shop was a total mess......Tired of dragging chips and metal shavings all over on my shoes.
TIME TO CLEAN THE SHOP.
Swept the floor, vacuumed the machines and hauled off two 5 gallon buckets of crap. Hauled off several cardboard boxes left from materials that came in with goodies for the cat

Actually discovered a lot of room.
Getting ready to start building the 406 engine for the cat.....Need a place to work.....
Son in law was over and fetched the engine stand down out of the rafters for me.......

Old bones are done for the day.....


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## m1west

Snowy Rivers said:


> Reassembled the axle components this morning early.
> Looks great....
> 
> Went in the shop to get some tools.....The machine shop was a total mess......Tired of dragging chips and metal shavings all over on my shoes.
> TIME TO CLEAN THE SHOP.
> Swept the floor, vacuumed the machines and hauled off two 5 gallon buckets of crap. Hauled off several cardboard boxes left from materials that came in with goodies for the cat
> 
> Actually discovered a lot of room.
> Getting ready to start building the 406 engine for the cat.....Need a place to work.....
> Son in law was over and fetched the engine stand down out of the rafters for me.......
> 
> Old bones are done for the day.....


Where is a good place to get rid of lathe crap


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## Snowy Rivers

Shavings and such (Brass, steel, aluminum) I just toss it in the weekly garbage can.

I don't have enough to turn it in for scrap....

Just enough to make a mess.

I am getting ready to start building the bag arm and other goodies for the left side now....I wanted the shop to be clean...RELATIVE TERM....


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## Snowy Rivers

Starting to think about the drill fixture needed to drill the steam holes in the Vortec heads.

The 400 SBC has Siamese cylinder bores and there are two steam holes between each of the cylinders  (3 sets of holes in each head)
These go through to the water jacket.

I may make a jig....or make a pair of brackets that bolt to the ends of the heads to allow them to index the head decks to 20 degrees off level.

The holes closest to the intake side need to be drilled towards the exhaust ports to intersect with the water jacket.....

Just more stuff to think about.

The little 406 Vortec is going to get painted CAT YELLOW....Valve covers ( Stock GM Vortec center bolt type) are getting Black wrinkle paint....Aluminum intake will stay bright alloy....Pan is anodized a bright silver.

The air filter is still in the thinking stage.....May use a aluminum top hat on the Quadrajet with a right angle and aim it back down the tunnel in the cab....We need a hot air supply to feed the carb too...

The Vortec aluminum intakes for 4 barrels do not have heat riser passages......DO I HEAR CARBURETOR ICING ISSUES....YEAH BUDDY...
I think a heat shroud off one of the exhaust pipes can supply plenty of hot/warm air to keep icing in check......


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## Snowy Rivers

A couple pics from yesterday after reassembling the RH axle.
To cut to the chase here.
There are a few things left to do before the assembly can be removed for the final time, painted then reinstalled.

(1) The inner track adjuster assembly "Threaded unit" still; needs to be finished
(2) The outer adjuster grease cylinder needs to be reassembled with the new seals and installed
(3) The UHMW pad needs to be cut and fitted to the track over travel safety shelf (Little box structure welded to the inner adjuster slide tube) 
(4) Thrust cap on inner end of axle shaft.....****Slides over end of the axle and is held in place by the center bolt in the end of the axle.....Serves two functions......Protects the shaft from damage and loads the bag arm inward against the through bolt to help prevent any wobbling on the shaft and the key.****

(5) Still need to add the upper limit travel stop......I think this can be added to the cover plate that goes over the access port to the exhaust connection to the manifold.....Still thinking about this bad boy.....
Now that the bag perch adjuster is in, I want to air up things and see just where the arm ends up when I jack the spindle up to the point that it lifts the cat.....   Basically we have to sort out the amount of actual spindle travel and go from there.

The actual travel is a mystery.....I have no idea how much movement the original set up allowed the spindle to travel up and down.
The short 6" arm on the front axles certainly does not allow much...
As long as there is flex in things to prevent damage to the chassis.....we should be good.
THIS IS NOT...going to be a long travel BAJA cross country suspension.....A new replacement axle at an affordable price would have been great......Not going to happen.

(6) Paint and then grease the moving parts (Urethane bushings, shaft and such)   Using very sticky waterproof silicone grease....

Getting close.......

Then we pick up the tools and move back to the LH side and go again.
Finishing the left side will be much easier......NO DESIGN WORK TO DO.....JUST BUILD THE PARTS AND INSTALL THEM...

OH YES...Detailed  drawings are made of each piece as they have been made....SO WE CAN DO IT AGAIN......


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## Snowy Rivers

More work done.....actually more planning than work...but some work done....

Cut the original center thrust spacer tube in half....picked up the exhaust clamps......

Got that Gizmo bolted on .    yesssssss...Simple and easy to get on and off.
Operated the suspension through a fair range of the available arc......The lower bump stop is fine where it is..

The upper stop is going to fasten to the cover plate I mentioned earlier.

A few pics of things.

The upper bump stop bracket needs to be kept as short as possible and the outer mounting foot will fasten under the upper edge of the tub.....This thing needs to be OUT OF THE BATTLE ZONE .....The edge of the track is close......The track inner edge runs by close to the inner adjuster tube......

There is plenty of room for everything.....BUT I do not want to deal with a train wreck....

At any rate.....the air bag and arm articulate really nice from full down position (Bag at 8") to a spot that places the bag at about 4-1/2" (2-3/4" is fully compressed) 

The bag is running in the sweet spot and the lower perch pivots really well..

About 5-7 pounds of air in the bag and I can lift the cat off the jack stand with hydraulic jack under the spindle......

That bag arm has a lot of mechanical advantage....  about  18-20" arm and the spindle is 6" off center of the axle......

Anyway
Pics...

More tweaking on the upper bump stop bracket..


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## Snowy Rivers

Got to work on the upper bump stop bracket.

Dropped the air pressure off the air bag for the most part so I could get the arm up into the upper reaches of it's arc......

Got the parts figured out and cut.....
This poor old Packer has more damned holes in it from the blade mount and other stuff bolted on THAT GOT TOSSED....Trying to use as many of the original holes as possible......

The upper bumper is black urethane....only because the set was available cheaper than the red ones....Same brand (Energy)

The parts are tacked together and clamped in place now.

Tomorrow the cover plate gets removed and the paint buffed off....then the bracket parts get tacked up.....OFF AND TO THE TABLE TO BE WELDED......

The next part to be tackled will be the adjust rod for the inner track adjuster.

Making a revision on the plan too.

Going to go with something very similar to what ended up on the bag perch adjuster.

Simpler and will be easier to replace if need be.....

The original system with the grease cylinder was simple....but the presentation was just crude.

I have a pair of Heim joints coming for the two inner adjusters.

That will make things self aligning and much easier to work with......


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## Snowy Rivers

Big leap today.
Got the upper bump stop bracket completed (Except paint)
Some pics of the bracket on the table after welding done.
The bracket bolted back in with zero issue.

Took a 3/8" x 2" bolt and cut the head off....thread it into the forward bolt hole on the cover plate portion of the bracket...

This pilots the assembly right into place easily.

Got the assembly all bolted in.....looks sweet......Rounded off the nasty sharp corners.....Ready for prime time now.

Got to looking at the short stub of axle that sticks out on the inside of the air bag arm.....This area is down in the battle zone...BIG TIME.

Decided to machine a little slip fit cover tube and weld a plate on one end and drill it to allow the center bolt in the axle to secure the cover.

The cover also pulls the air bag arm up tight against the 1/2" through bolt.....The shaft is now protected.....Grease it up really good before the cover is installed and removing the arm should be easy......

That bare shaft would get beat all to rat crap really quick.......Now is a great time to make it a better set up.....

Some pics of the entire assembly from a few angles.

Grabbed a grouser and set it across the front tire to check the location of everything based on where the grouser will operate.

Looks great......Plenty of room.....


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## Snowy Rivers

MORE PICCY'S

The last piccy.....The heavy angle for the inner track adjuster assembly......Very similar to the item on the bag perch adjuster

The actual adjuster nut assembly will be made off the same print....The little bracket is a bit huskier though due to the loading....


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## Snowy Rivers

Getting on with this bad boy.
Ordered two Heim joints this morning for the inner track adjusters.
Then machined up the adjuster nut assemblies.
Made the weld on bracket.

This is somewhat similar to the first design....but simpler to replace if need be.
It will be a couple days for the Heim joints to get here.

The bracket has a 1/4" hole for a through bolt to cage the adjuster nut......
Once the assembly is together and the actual vertical location is attained.....a little tube can be machined to slip over the 1/4" bolt in the bracket to hold the nut assembly (May not need any)


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## Snowy Rivers

More good things

The 406 engine block was ready to pick up.....
Got the block all home and in the shop......

Got a call yesterday afternoon to get a pair of tracks for the Cat.
Bit of a road trip today to run and get them.
We had made a trade deal last fall for my 2100 Cab.....but the snows closed us out before we could get in and get the tracks.
This will get the next chapter of the FrankenCat much closer.....

Two standard 2100 tracks......Fresh belts and narrow the tracks to 44" each.....

Likely the track project will be into next year.....

But having them to work with is a key piece of this puzzle.

Few pics of the 406 block fresh from the shop.


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## Snowy Rivers

A great day....ALMOST..

Headed out to get the tracks....
We arrived at a around noon and after some glad handing and swapping BS stories we got after loading up the tracks.....well almost tracks....

We sat the first one on the trailer and it settled down.....dropped the second one on and the trailer was on it's haunches begging for mercy......

Not enough clearance on the tires to the fenders.....  (Light duty car hauler)

Not gonna happen.   no damned way.....not safe either.....
A quick trip for a couple miles....no worries..in a heart beat.....but not the distance and at speed we were talking....

Heading back in the morning to pickup up the second track.

Used the Avy to haul the trailer.....Old green Burb has a dead AC.....Not gonna sweat all the way up and back.

The Avy has the 5.3 LS engine......piss poor excuse for a power plant me thinks.........Fine for a house car.....but not for any serious GRUNT work........

All home fine....Track unloaded with the Skid steer.....Stood it on tip toes unloading that monster though.....


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## Snowy Rivers

Just got back with track number 2......Yesssssssssssssssssssssss.....

Just need to get it unloaded......

And the adventure continues.....


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## Snowy Rivers

Today has been a "GATHERING SESSION"

Picked up two Heim joints that showed up at the post office this morning.

These are weld in units that come with the joint and the bung.

These bad boys get welded into a steel sleeve.......The other end of the sleeve is tapped for 5/8-11 coarse thread......

The Heim joint goes into the inner end of the inner track adjuster slide and the 5/8" threaded rod goes into the adjuster nut on the angle bracket shown in post #993

Stopped at the parts house and picked up a 11/16 box end wrench to CUT UP and make a tool to get the grouser bolts/nuts off.

I fooled with a few bolts this morning......

Crammed a wrench in the J cleat and got my breaker bar and snapped the bolts right off.

Picked up a piece of heavy wall tube to make a "bolt on" cheater bar.....

This will give me a stable breaker bar with lots of extra ooooomph....
Soaking the nuts with Skunk piss is a waste of time and $$$$$

Just break the bolts off and move on

I am going to cut the belts at about 3 or 4 grouser apart and then grab the grousers in the vice and break off the bolts.

Nuff said......
The belts are trash anyway......

Just want the grousers and tire guides.......


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## Snowy Rivers

Grabbed one of the tracks this morning and dragged it over by the cat (TOOLS)  Went after it with the SAWZALL.

Cut the belts in about 2 foot sections.....Easy to hang that size chunks on the tractor bucket and go after breaking off the bolts and getting the parts all segregated into buckets of GOOD STUFF/ USABLE STUFF/ JUNK STUFF

Gotta head to town in a few minutes to get some steel bar to finish up the inner track adjusters.

I will get some pics of the carnage posted later.

'


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## Snowy Rivers

OK

Hear are the pics of this nasty old 2100 track.....

It has several "patches" on all but one belt.
A few broken tire guides and one broken grouser.

The back plates are great.....maybe one or two have some damage.....no biggy

This track has the lacing cleat missing....But I have one from my original track.......

I have not looked at the other track too much yet...I did notice that it has a second hinge set and a short section looks to have been replaced.

Now with the pieces small enough to handle by myself......I will get after separating the parts.

The belting on these tracks was USED UP.....

I am still very pleased with the parts.....

Todays task is to get the new axle assembly back apart and the inner adjuster out and then finish the area where the heim joint mounts in the rear...

Some machining, welding and such....not a big job.
I decided to make a slight change order on the inner belt safety slide.....I scored a piece of 1" thick UHMW 12-1/2" X 23" the other day..   Just need to saw the pieces to bolt onto the inner adjuster assembly and get them drilled and also drill the holes in the mounting plate.

Once these few things are done the RH axle assembly will be done.....The one last tear down and get some paint on the parts....

Reassemble with the silicone lube on the bushings and IT WILL BE DONE....


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## Snowy Rivers

Wrapping up the RH axle assembly.

Machined a little adapter to allow the 5/8" fine thread heim joint weld bung to fit in one end and the 5/8 coarse adjuster thread rod to into the other end.

This will make life easy if any of the parts need replacing later on down the line.

Why is it that as soon as you get ready to weld with the mig welder......half a second after you pull the trigger the wind blows and make a mess of the weld  ( Blows the gas shield away) 

Anyway.
Was able to weld the 1/2" X 2" Flat bar into the adjuster tube ...had to plug weld the bars through the side of the tube to get a good weld.

The heim joint fits in nicely and has a slight bit of play sideways.

Once this thing goes back together for the last time....will use blue thread locker on both the heim joint and the coarse thread rod.

Started fooling with the grousers.

Gotta know it...First bolt did not break....came loose and needed the big impact to make it easy......

Going to build a modified wrench that will fit in the J grouser and lock into the inside so the impact does not shake it loose.

Damned wrench flew out twice and got me.....NO DOING THIS AGAIN......

Going to cut the box wrench off short....then bend the shank straight......then weld on a block of steel that will allow a pair of vice tongs to clamp it into the grouser.....

If it takes a bit to perfect it.....FINE....WELL WORTH A BIT OF FOOLING....WE HAVE A BUTTLOAD OF BOLTS THAT GOTTA COME OUT......


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## Snowy Rivers

Decided to fool a bit more with the SPECIAL WRENCH for the grousers......

Grabbed the new 11/16" box wrench I got and stuck it in the vice.....Heated the blade up just outside the box end.....brought it up to a dull red and straightened the blade out (Took the angle out of the wrench) 

Cut the blade off at about 4" from the box end......

NOW...

Grabbed a chunk of 1/2" x 1" flat bar 3" long and with the wrench in the "J" on a nut.....laid the flat bar on the wrench blade and will weld it in place (Tomorrows project)

Another issue is....WHEN THE NUT COMES LOOSE....The nut will slip up out of the wrench and this rounds off the nut as it slips...

Scared up an SAE grade 8 washer that fit the 7/16" bolts.......Lay it on the wrench centered on the bolt.....Clamp the washer with Vise tongs....tack weld to wrench box end..

I will finish the wrench GIZMO in the morning and get pictures.....

If this works like I think it will.....LIFE WILL BE MUCH EASIER IN THE TRACK BIZZ....

Simply toss the wrench in the J and clamp it with the vise tongs.....Hit the nut with the 3/4" impact.....ZOOOOOOOP   GOOD TO GO..

IF THE IMPACT WILL NOT BUDGE THE SUCKER.....THE BREAKER BAR WITH THE 3 FOOT EXTENSION WILL GITTERDONE...


If this little creature works I will get some good hi res pics up.....

Easy and cheap to build.......


One thing is for sure.....When the tracks go back together.....there will be never seaze on the threads....


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## Snowy Rivers

Got after things early this morning.

The 11/16" box wrench special is a real winner.

Slides into the J and sits down on the lock nut very well...

Clamp into the grouser and hit the nut with the 3/4" impact wrench......THE 1/2" IMPACT WAS A WASTE OF TIME AND EFFORT.

The big boy spins the bolts right out.

Then came the next batch of grousers and some putz has used 7/16 nylock nuts which are smaller (5/8") and some had already been worried a bit......

Gonna see about getting a couple 5/8" 6 point box wrenches to chop up and make tooling.

Every place there is a splice in the track there are the odd nuts........

Anyway.......this style of tool works sweet.

Got a nice chunk of the 4 ply belting off one of the tracks.....Going to trot that chunk of belting over town to the industrial conveyor belt supply house and see what they have.

The stuff is 1/2" 4 ply.

We're gonna need 12" wide belts to make this come together......287-1/2" long....

Starting to get excited...AGAIN.....


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## Snowy Rivers

Spent some time on the phone checking out new belting for the tracks.

The material that is coming off the old tracks is a 4 ply belting....about 1/2" thick.
The top and bottom rubber covers are about 1/8" thick.

What I found is a 4/440 belt with 1/4" top cover and 1/16" bottom cover.

This material will be as good if not better than what was on there.......

12" belts.....287-1/2" long.......

Should have price quotes tomorrow......


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## Snowy Rivers

Out thrashing on the track "Chunks" 

Got a "Disassembly line"  going now

Using the bucket on "Widdle Red Tractor"  hook a tire guide over the edge of the bucket....fasten it with a ratchet strap..

Off to the rodeo.
Will have pics later......
Bucket make a great tool bench....sort of
Has variable height control too


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## Snowy Rivers

GOT PLENTY DIRTY TODAY.

Sorted through the sections that have patches as these have all the bastard nuts....AND OTHER CRAP TO DEAL WITH.
The 11/16" 6 point box wrenches are the CATSASS.....Better than the custom tool I made......

Easier to get down in the "J" 
Had a few of the smaller 7/16" nylock nuts that had to be cut off.....Other folks had managed to mangle them so they were worthless.....and impossible to use tools on.

I am trying to save all the backing plates......so far so good......
They will all need a few licks with a 5 pounder to lay flat again.

The new belts will be 12 inches wide ....so we will cut off a section of one of the extra plates and weld to the stock plates to add the 4th hole needed with the 12" belts

So far a few broken tire guides, and a few grousers that are too far tweaked to use easily.

I think somebody was using these tracks for logging....judging by the carnage.......

But for the most part.....we have parts to work with.

Plus all the tire guides off the original "Track" we will have plenty to work with PLUS EXTRAS.

Little Red tractor gets to help too......

I will not lie to anyone who is thinking about doing a set of tracks.....THESE ARE JUST PLAIN WORK.

A 6 point end wrench, a 5/8" impact socket and a 3/4 impact gun.....these bad boys will come apart....or the bolts will break.....

Careful handling and most of the damage to the HOOOOOMAN PARTS can be avoided....

So far nothing worse than dirty paws......


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## Snowy Rivers

After getting into ripping off the old belting I see that the belts are various materials.(Thickness and ply count)

The outer belts are 3 ply with 1/4" rubber top cover and 1/16" bottom cover
The inner belts are 4 ply with 1/8" rubber covers on both sides...

Several patches are 4 ply with 1/4" top cover and 1/16" bottom cover

The other track appears to be all 3 ply......I have not gotten really serious on the other track, and will not until the first one is completely disassembled and the junk rubber in the trash.

I still need to finish the Front axles....but just needed a break from them....and to be able to see what we actually got with these tracks.

Would be sweet to sand blast all the hardware......But I do not have access to a blaster that can  get it done.

A wire wheel on the grinder to knock off the worst and shoot them with some Rustoleum and call it a day..

Interestingly....The hardware is an assortment of various stuff.
Two different (Slightly) grousers....Same length but a little different.
A couple variations of tire guides (I do not see any 3700 type guides in the bunch which are much heavier)
There are 3 different types of backing plates....Some narrower, some wider and heavier.

But for sure the bulk of the parts are quite usable.

I am sorting out the tire guides into 3 catagories
Good to go (Just clean and paint)
Need a little crack welded on an upright ( So far a few have shown a crack on one or both outer uprights)
Absolute trash  (Not even worth fooling with....missing uprights....or bolt holes broken out badly or that part missing)

Sorting the grousers too
Good to go
May need a slight tweak to straighten
Seriously Fubar'd  (Broken in two or seriously bent)

I do not want to be dealing with bent/misaligned grousers during the reassemble process....

The hinges/lacers are the heavy hinge type on the one track....The track I am working on now is missing all of the hinges..
It appears they got torn out as all the bolt holes are ripped through and the lacing cleat is missing... (Only 71 grousers on the track)

The second track has an extra set of hinges (Likely a new piece was added)  so this gives us enough of the heavy hinges to do two complete tracks.

I have enough all new Flexco 550 hinge to do the entire set of tracks....but I really like the heavy hinges.

Going to a two 12" belt layout the hinges and the back plates will need to be adjusted...I can splice on a piece of  back plate to get 4 holes and the extra hinges (Original 4 belt system) can be cut to yield the width needed......

The other option is to use the Flexco 550 all the way.   WE SHALL SEE AS WE GET CLOSER TO ASSEMBLING THE NEW SETUP...
Some time ago I made two jigs for drilling the extra bolt holes in the grousers to convert them to the NON OFFSET configuration...

Once the grousers are all off and sorted out......These bad boys can be drilled once summer is over and the weather closes in.

The drilling process will be time consuming.......
I am likely going to use a carbide drill to do the job......Cobalt is OK.....But carbide will last far longer.

Now.....

Drilling the holes in the new belts will get it's own modified drill press to do the deed.

Some months ago I picked up a small bench to drill press off Craig's list.

I need a machine with a throat that will allow the full 12" belt plus a couple inches to lay on the table and be drilled (4 holes each row and 7 holes for the lacers.

Decided to disassemble the drill press and cut the column off at the ideal height for the table.....Then fabricate an offset throat that will fasten under the table and then give the room needed and then add the top part of the column back on.

A funny looking little machine......Then add some hold down shoes to keep the belt from jumping.

Already have the hole location fixture material (12" wide aluminum sheet) Will drill the pilot holes in the belts 1/8" diameter.....then finish with a 7/16" Brad point drill 

This type drill bit is designed for cutting wood and other soft materials....The outer cutting edges are sharp and actually cut the material and do not rip like a standard twist drill....The center point is slightly longer so it engages the pilot hole first.

I have used these to drill odd materials like Dilecto.....Which is a phenolic and is a bitch to drill with regular drill bits.

Flexco makes a great rotary punch that works with an electric drill....sadly..wrong size....

Back years ago I called these "Spur bits" and ground up many by hand during my time in the mill industry

They make a nice clean cut as the outer points are sharp with knife like edges......
Leaves a clean hole without the tool grabbing and tearing at the part.....


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## m1west

You really don't need the flex hinge joints to assemble the tracks. You can leave the belting long and lap them using the grouser holes and bolts. Its a strong splice just a little harder to assemble and disassemble.


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## Snowy Rivers

I really am not thrilled with the lap connection since I have the choice of either the heavy hinges or the Flexco...one or the other will be chosen

Removing 2 pins and being able to drop the track is far easier .... less tools required too.

Guess I’m just old school


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## Snowy Rivers

Spent a fair bit of time today stripping the hardware off the old belts...
Had one bolt that had been molested previously and it got cut off with a cutoff wheel slid in between the belt and the grouser.

A bit smoky (Stinks a bunch) but gets the beast off.
A few others refused to come off..Rattled them just a bit more and they snap off...

A slow process....but we are moving ahead.

I stopped using the tractor bucket....to cumbersome to deal with more than one grouser at a time.

Grabbed the Sawzall and cut the rubber belts to give me one grouser at a time...toss it in the vise and just go after it.

This is an easy way to get these old parts stripped down.....

The 11/16"   6 point box wrench is a great investment.......The wrench slips easily into the J and grab it with the vise tong to secure it.....

Pretty much gonna gitterdone......

The key is the 6 point wrench.......Holding it tight on the nut is a plus and allows the big impact to do it's job quickly.
Even if the threads are rusted nasty and stuck....The 3/4" impact will break the 7/16 bolts really quick.......

No need to fight these bad boys.....Gear up and hit them hard.......

So.....once we see whats good and whats not we can clean the stuff up and then get the proper number of grousers ready to assemble with the new 12" belts......

So far there are a few end caps (Anti side slip device) that are damaged and will need some help.....but not a big deal...

Tomorrow will be another session thrashing on this pile of parts......


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## Snowy Rivers

Sunday was a day of reasonable progress.

Straightened up the Chit hole work area and finally getting this demolition down to a decent routine....Fast....NOT EVEN....But things are working well.

Cutting the belts off now into single grouser pieces.....Then toss the grouser in the vise and go at it....

Careful procedure is the key to getting decent results.
Making sure the wrenches are seated well on the nuts and clamped down......

Starting to see far more good grousers than junk ones......I think today we will go out and count the left overs that came with the Cat and see just how many RH and LH parts we have to fill in the bad ones...

Several of the tire guides are cracked.....Tossing them in a separate pile to be dealt with later if need be.

We have close to a full set of good guides from the original track.....so we should be good to go....
I wish there was away to make this go much faster.....NOT GONNA HAPPEN.....

But so far KNUCKLES ARE ALL IN GOOD SHAPE (Knock on wood)

Once this track is apart and we see what we have....then back to work on the front axle......

The RH side in so very close to complete now........

Just a couple little things to finish and then tear it down and paint the parts and Reassemble ......ABOUT DAMNED TIME.....

Best part is that the major fabrication on the LH side is done.....and the engineering from the RH side makes finishing the LH side pretty easy...just cut the materials and make the remaining parts......

After the front axles.....then the cab comes back off and the diffy can go back in ....at least temporarily   and the drive shaft can be finished up....the center bearing and its mounting built and installed.......

After this.....the engine and tranny comes out and the mounts can be finish welded (Currently just tack welded)
Then the 406 engine gets assembled and the TH350 tranny can come apart and get freshened up.......

Trying to get as much work done while we have good weather......Then after the weather goes sour along about late September/October we can work on the engine and tranny.

Ah yessss...Fun fun fun


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## Snowy Rivers

We went out and dug out the remaining grousers from the original track that came with my 2100.

We have  25 RH and 25 LH grousers .....Hopefully these will be sufficient to make up for any of the dead ones from the recent acquisition.....

I am not really hopeful that any of the broken grousers can be welded up successfully....at least and get any real life from them....
Most of the bad ones are bent or twisted enough to make using them a poor idea....

A couple MAY BE ABLE TO BE STRAIGHTENED......Only if absolutely necessary....

Cooler weather forecast for tomorrow....hopefully much more conducive to ripping the bolts and belts off the grousers.....


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## Snowy Rivers

The track is getting shorter and the piles of parts are getting larger.
Piles of cut off rubber pieces, bucket with lots of bolts and nuts.

Pallet with good RH and LH grousers.....
A pile of junk grousers that is at about 10 so far (Some each of RH and LH)
A bucket of backing plates....Most need a few whacks to straighten them out......but they are all in fine shape.

The tire guides are a different story.

This track has a mixture of the early style and second style tire guides on it..

All the second style guides are in good shape.....Not the case with the early ones....nearly all the early style have the outer upright cracked at the weld....most have been re-welded....and cracked again a few of the early guides are missing chunks.....

Out of curiosity and worry I went over and looked at the other track....seems that all the guides are the later design..And the track is overall in better shape....

Be nice to have the 3700 tire guides....Beggars can't be picky...eh ????  

Trying to get as many grousers stripped per day as I can......Old bones just keep plugging away it it.....

Cut off about 5-6 grousers.
Get them in the vise..Align all the bolt heads so the 5 point box wrench will slip on the nuts.
Clamp the wrench in place and knock the bolt out...move on.
Takes about 15 minutes or so to strip a grouser (Unless there are bolts/nuts that have been mutilated)   Then things get ugly...

Inspect the grouser and tire guide and then put the pieces in the proper pile......

Filled the garbage can up with the belt chunks...nuts and old bolts.
Think I need a couple more pallets.
Goal is to strip both tracks into their usable parts.....

Such fun this is.......Arrrrrgh


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## Snowy Rivers

The Brad point drills came in today.

I just had to try one......
Grabbed a chunk of the old belt and drilled some holes to check out how well these drills work.
They are a tad different than what I used to grind up years ago for drilling phenolic board..

The holes are nice and snug on the bolts too.....

Did not grab or do anything ugly....just drills a nice 7/16" hole
Punched holes are a tad prettier.....but these bad boys will do a right fine job on the new belts.

One could make a tool with a 7/16" shank and a wooden handle....Heat it up RED and stuff it through the holes to seal the belting.

I think this is rather a waste of time....butttttttttttttttttttttt......

My belt jig will have 1/8" holes to mark/pilot the holes in the belts...The brad point drill will finish the task quite nicely.

The jig is about 4 feet long with the holes marked on 4" centers.....This job will be time consuming....but what isn't on a cat.


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## Snowy Rivers

A little bit done today....More grousers disassembled....

We decided to go out and relax a bit and hit a few garage sales.
Score a really nice aluminum Chevy bell housing.

I have been half way looking for a bell housing to make a test stand for the 406 cat engine to be able to test run it out of the cat.
$20 for that bad boy.....

A little fab work and that mighty mouse will have a place to roar from.

I really wanted to run the engine....break in the cam and be sure the little critter does not have any oil leaks and such before cramming it down into the belly of the 2100.....

Never know whatcha gonna find.....


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## Snowy Rivers

Still slogging through getting the first (New to us) track apart......
Down to about 10 grousers left to unbolt the chunks of belt and the tire guides.

There were only 71 grousers on the track when we got it.....So far there are 8 left hand and 7 right hand grousers that are junk.
Mostly they are bent up.....one broken in two and a couple with bad cracks.
Since we have 25 each RH & LH good ones from the original track we are in very good shape as far as having enough parts to work with.

This track has a mixture of 1st and 2nd gen tire guides.......Almost all of the 1st gen guides are cracked on the outer upright where it is welded to the base........FOR NOW ...the plan is to toss all these gen 1 guides in a barrel and store then as "Possible repair and use if need be"

There are many of the 2nd gen guides and pretty much all of these are good to go.....

Best part is that with all the guides left from the original track plus what we now have there should be no issues getting things together....With extras left as spares.

The second track looks to be in far better shape... a section has been replaced and a second hinge assembly added......

From what I can see the tire guides on track 2 are all 2nd gen type (I have not unrolled the track as yet)

The biggest issue so far has been working with the patched areas of track 1.....Whoever did the work used standard Nyloc nuts (5/8" wrench size on the 7/16" bolts ) instead of the top lock type that are 11/16" size wrench.

There have been a few of the smaller nuts that were rounded over and required some extra time to cut off.....

We have a 6 gallon bucket of backing plates, that aside from needing a couple thumps with a 5 pounder on the anvil to flatten them are in great shape.

I had it in my head that working for a bit on this one track would be a bit of relief from the front axle build.....OMG.....Getting this track apart has been no relief.....just plain "DAMNED HARD WORK" Butttttttttttttttttttttttttt......all part of the job......


As soon as the track is apart......Back to the front axles.

I want both axle assemblies completed, painted, parts lubricated and assembled before the summer is over.

I would still love to score another GEN 1 S10 cab to use on the rear of the cat......They seem to be tough to find.....Every time I post a want ad.....all the calls I get are for extended cabs....TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO LONG...

And the SAGA continues....


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## Snowy Rivers

Cool this morning....Got after things at 6 am.....
Had about 15 grousers left.

Finished cutting the belts and that left 10 on the ground....

I wanted to get TRACK ONE completely apart.

Done deal....Some pics.
The junkers under the tree....Bent, cracked and otherwise no good.
The last few left on the ground.
Buckets of back plates, good tire guides in the square crate, not so good ones on the dirt in a pile.

Pallet full of the good grousers...
Still need to straighten the end caps (Slide stops) on some and weld a few caps up....

The parts on the pallet are straight and free of cracks.

A top side down view......

Feels good to have these suckers all in pieces now......

I hope track two is easier.......I think the numbers of junk grousers are far less....


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## Snowy Rivers

Back to work on the RH Front axle.
Had a few little things to do.....and then get the entire assembly off the cat and then wash the parts to get all the crud off and then paint the parts.

The anti spatter spray used when welding leaves a nasty film....gotta wash the parts in a cleaner....

Had to weld up the inner track adjuster nut bracket on the rear of the adjuster.

A little piece goes in and keeps the adjuster nut centered....and a 1/4" bolt goes through to hold it....

While the parts are off the machine, aside from painting I will make sure we have all the parts to finish building the LH side.

Some pics...

All the pieces on the pallet


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## Snowy Rivers

Hot weather is still dogging my progress (I do not do well in the heat.....worse after my strokes back in 2012)

Today the plan is to get after cleaning and painting the parts.

I have one hole to drill on the inner slider bracket (Where the lower bump stop inner bolt needs to be)

I dragged out the LH axle yesterday to measure the shaft length from inside the spindle casting to the end of the shaft...

I wanted to see how it compared to the RH side tht is wrapping up now.....

Exactly identical at 26-3/16"    THIS IS A GREAT THING.....

To be honest I had cut the shafts the same, but did not really pay close attention to the distance from the inside of the casting to the inner bearing shoulder on the spindle......  It's been months since I was working on the LH side.

Making up the rules as we go can lead to things getting sideways if one is not careful.

Most all of the parts are identical.....but there will no doubt be a tiny bit of "Fudge factor" here and there.......BUT IT IS LOOKING GOOD.

Once the assembly is back on the cat I need to fab up a little fixture to fasten to the lug nut studs (With 2 at the top) and that registers off the adjuster slider.

This will allow me to use it on the LH side to set the location of the the spindle with the assembly at its BOTTOM point with the suspension on the bottom bumper.

Working on the ground the only real locators are the frame itself....Frame is pretty level using the angle meter and a level....but I want to make things as close to the same as can be done... PLUS OR MINUS 1/32"   Good enough for the crowd I run with....

Seeing the parts all painted and back on the cat is going to feel really good....

The past few days of beating on that one track was exhausting.....BUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT....No busted knuckles and no bandaid's needed.....  

Last fall as the weather closed in and the rains came.....I began to give a lot of thought to EXACTLY WHAT we were going to do for tracks....
The steel prices have gone stupid crazy $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and this would have made fabricating grousers from scratch a very spendy endevour.

Having the two recently acquired 2100 tracks HERE ON SITE is such a great thing....At least we know where the parts are coming from.......   The trade deal for my original cab came full circle and both parties came away happy..

I ended up with some good axle spindle castings with good spindles.....and the two tracks.

The other fella got the complete cab and the C6 tranny and the factory fuel tank that had been in my cat.
The cab had all the blade controls intact as well as the complete dash and the steering controls.....

I don't think this could have ended better if we wanted it to.....

Plus I don't have the old cab sitting in my yard.....


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## Snowy Rivers

Got out early this morning and started washing up the new axle assembly parts.
Laid things out on a clean pallet and gave them some black paint.

Cleaned off the front frame and the number 2 axle and got the inner adjuster assembly sitting back on the cat.....

I need some 1/2" SAE washers for the U BOLTS and some nylocks nuts too. ....the ACE hardware is closed today....arrrrrrrrrgh.

I have been using standard nuts for the build up and not wasting the Nylocks with a lot of on and off during the build....

The pile of parts getting some much needed paint.....

This is a rattle can job....The Ace rust stop paint has held up well on several things my son in law has done....decided it will be fine for the cat.

Pretty well have the paint scheme figured out.....FrankenCat is going to be Florescent Green and Flat Black Camo......This is gonna be a GAWDAWFUL color.....but quite suited to the Rat Rod snow cat theme.....

Another little change is in the works too....OH NO...NOT ANOTHER CHANGE ORDER....Yeah buddy.

Decided I did not like the exhaust going out the rear.....just going to be in the way of access to the diffy and other stuff in the area.

Going to make a hard turn to the sides out of the Super 10 mufflers ....go up on an angle, then out the side of the tub and into a pair of 5" flat black stacks with "Bull Horn" tips on top.....

This will eliminate the mess in the tub....plus it should help eliminate any worries about CO getting into the back with a canopy on it....

Should also enhance the BADAZZ look and further the Rat Rod theme....

The 406 thundering out of the 5" stacks should sound awesome too........Well maybe....


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## Snowy Rivers

Got the parts out of the pile of goodies and assembled the track adjuster grease cylinder for the RH side.
I had machined a new cylinder for that side a while back....The original was so badly pitted it was junk.

Machined the weld off the back head and added a new DOM tube section.

Fitted the new seals and greased things up well.....The piston and rod were still in fine shape.....

The grease hose that extends rearward to the little block that the Zerk threads into was in good shape.

Assembled the piston/rod into the cylinder....Good to go.

The cylinder is ready to fit onto the slider assembly and get stuffed back down the frame rail....

Picked up a couple new 3/4" bolts with lock nuts to go through the back head of the adjuster cylinder......

The old onces were pretty nasty looking.....Mostly the threads were munged up.....

New will be better.

Picked up some "Super lube" silicone grease to lube the Axle shafts, Red urethane bushings and other parts of the new assembly.

The silicone grease is advertised to stick to everything, be water proof and last a long time.

The big red bushings will be happy with the super slickum.....

Still need to take the air bag lower perch back off the arm and paint those parts....plus the upper and lower bag mounts need paint.

Weather started looking ugly earlier so I picked up the tools and covered up the remaining parts that are unpainted.

I really don't want stuff getting rusty at this juncture....

Really close to stuffing this bad boy back together for the final time.....

I am negotiating on some large bearing aluminum Cat wheels for the front and rear locations.....So for now I may just toss on some standard hubs so I can get tires on the front axles for the time being.....

I have the two aluminum wheels my cat came with....all the others were stamped steel tube type .

Two other alloy wheels I scared up...one is standard bearing and one is the large bearing.

Be nice to have the four end ones with the large bearings....

The middle axles are all going to get my custom steel wheels ......

Finding these wheels at decent prices is tough.....


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## Snowy Rivers

Parts going back on...This time with grease where it needs to be.....
Bolting things down with nylock nuts too....

Some parts were a tad sticky yet....gonna let the paint set more......

Getting the grease adjuster assembly in was far easier than I was thinking it would be.

With the new seals in the cylinder and the parts all together the beast slid down the frame rail easily.....

Fastened the grease manifold in first then stuck the 3/4" bolt through the frame and the rear of the cylinder... (The grease hose is a tiny bit long...so the little manifold needs to be bolted in with the two 1/4" bolts first....then the cylinder shoved back to get the 3/4" bolt though the back head of the cylinder) 
An interesting thing came up when assembling the grease cylinder.

The original cylinder barrel (Rusted to rat crap) had a spiral ring installed in the end to keep the piston from over traveling..
The Original piston seals were badly damaged (Lip on the inner edge was cut and mutilated)
Getting the piston in past the snap ring groove takes a bit of finesse using a thin feeler gauge as a tool to gently "Shoehorn"  the seal past the groove...
I did not have a tool to cut the ring groove in the barrel....Soooooooo...I drilled 4 evenly spaced 3/16" holes around the barrel end and tapped in 4 roll pins ....These will secure the piston from over travel......

The last crew to have these cylinders out likely used a 5 pound club and just hammered the piston into the cylinder.....thus the damaged seals.
The LH cylinder seal had a huge chunk cut in the seal lip.....The frame had about 10 pounds of grease in it that had leaked out past the seal.......No doubt making a stable track adjustment impossible......
RH side was just rusted up beyond use......

And on we go.


Removed the Zerk and the adjuster assembly slides in and out very nice....

Assembled the inner adjuster and it too operates quite nice....

Inner is a 5/8" coarse threaded unit.....

The Air bag arm is nearly ready to go back on.....brackets painted and still a tad tacky.

I still need to redo the sketch for the bag arm so we can make the LH part the same..... This area had a few revisions as it was coming together....so we need to make the other one the same......IF I WAS TO DO IT OVER....There would be some changes to the design to make it easier to build.....but at this juncture it will remain as is.....

One big change I would like to have been able to do is to have access to a key way broach and made the hub that goes onto the axle at the bag arm a custom part to my specs instead of adapting parts.

This time through... the red bushings are going to get the Super Lube slathered all over them as they go back in.
Same with the axle.  Urethane likes to be lubed up to stop squeaks and other unpleasant operation.....  The Energy brand bushings for trucks have a silicone lube available......
The custom bushings on the cat are the same material    95 durometer urethane....


That super lube is supposed to be WATER PROOF.....A good thing... and it sticks really well....USE RUBBER GLOVES

Be cool to get the axle shaft hard chromed.....It would last forever .....and not rust....even galv would be good...

It's coming together.....


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## Snowy Rivers

Well now....the time we have been waiting for has come.....The RH front axle is complete (Just need to install the upper track safety skid on the inner adjust assembly.....I need to cut the UHMW then bolt it on.......Can be done later)

All painted up, greased well with the silicone/PTFE grease.
The pics show a lot of details.
The inner end of the axle is covered with a slip on tubular cover that is held in place with a 1/2" bolt...This also shoves the air bag arm against the cross bolt in the shaft.....Shaft is keyed to the air bag arm....

The various Brass thrust washers.....Inner ones are 1/2" thick and the outer one by the spindle casting is a touch over 2" (Machined to place the hub flange in line with the other hubs) The thrust washer closest to the bag arm has a notch cut in the inner bore to allow the keyed axle to be slid back far enough so the air bag arm can be slipped between the inner adjuster frame and the tub....then slide the axle towards the tub and through the bag arm.....Sort of like a Chinese puzzle....once things all line up....it goes right together.....

The inner split steel tube spacer with retaining clamps and the inner brass thrust washers

The upper bump stop bracket  (Also has the exhaust flange access cover on it too)
The air bag and related parts.

All the Nylock nuts are on the bolts where needed.
The track guide safety "Goat wheel"

The air bag lower perch location adjuster.....Allows keeping the air bag lower perch where it needs to be no matter where the track adjuster winds up.

The inner track adjuster......

The grease cylinder jacks the track to tighten it and the inner adjuster will keep the axle parallel to the frame.....
Probably clamp a short chunk of hose over the adjuster threads to protect them.

At present the threads are greased well.....


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## Snowy Rivers

OFF TO  A GOOD START BACK ON THE LH SIDE.

Grabbed the piece of box tube for the LH air bag arm.

On the right side I laid it out and cut the notch in the tube with the torch.....Arrrrrrgh....Just not as nice as I wanted....

So on this one I laid out the part and tossed that bad noy in the mill and cut the tube with an end mill.

I buy used tooling by the BOX FULL cheap off ebay.....Grabbed a 1/4" cobalt 4 flute end mill and put it to work....

Took a little longer than the torch cut....But oooooooh sooooo much nicer result.

Pics.

The arm tube in the mill.....
The arm tube cut..
Arm with the bag perch locator slide tube sitting inside the arm.....

Next we will cut the filler plate to weld into the arm.

Then layout and drill the end holes for the slot in the arm.....followed by a trip back to the mill to slot the arm on both sides.

The little perch locator tube gets drilled 17/32" on center and then gets a plate welded into one end for the thread rod to screw in.....

Going to build this arm in a slightly different order than before.....

Be cleaner and a tad more accurate....also be a nicer finished part too.....

But when you are "Imagineering" as you go....there is usually room for improvement the second time around....

Once the arm is finish machined then the hub assembly will get fabricated ....followed by locating the axle in the adjuster assemblies and then welding the hub into the arm.

The hubs keyway must be located on the axle with the spindle at the same lower position as it's RH side mate.

Then the axle shaft gets marked and the key way cut in the axle shaft......

Axle then gets a 1/2" hole drilled through the hub and then the shaft too.

The entire procedure should go much quicker than the RH part did.....WE KNOW WHAT TO MAKE AND HOW TO DO IT....

The LH axle and spindle casting are pressed together and ready to be welded.....

The brass thrust washers are as follows.

One center one is completed, the other center one is cut...just needs finish machining to thickness and bore then center to size.
The thick outer end brass has to be cut yet....and then machined.

The inside thrust washer needs to be cut, machined to size and the clearance notch milled in it for the Key to slide through.

Axle needs to have a hole drilled and tapped in the inner end for the retainer cap to bolt too..

Sadly the shaft is too long to fit in the lathe.....gotta drill that SOB by hand......Arrrrrrgh..

With the inner track adjuster frame finished and bolted to the cat frame, as well as the outer adjuster modified.....we are off to a very good start.

The inner adjuster slider needs to have the bushing tube located and welded.....It is still loose in the assembly......

The original outer track adjuster is complete now and ready to clean up, paint and get the grease cylinder back together and then that entire assembly can go back onto the cat.

If the weather will stop trying to fry my azz I can get this stuff done fairly quick..

Weather dudes are talking 100's F next week by Wed... YUCK

I prefer 60 F and a breeze (Accept when I need to weld)


Gonna be nice to have the front axle mods finished.......

Then we will see where we go.....


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## Snowy Rivers

Got the top pieces of the arm welded in today. (The notch filler plates)
Been feeling really yucky since Early Saturday......Getting better this afternoon.....so maybe tomorrow I can get more done.

Last night I was feeling like this might be the stinking Virus.....But its on the way out now.....

Been shopping around for a good cam for the FrankenMouse 406

I want to use the Vortec heads as they are .....So valve lift needs to be kept pretty tame......The heads are in great shape and pretty much gonna be a clean and bolt on....EXCEPT drilling the "Steam holes" between the cylinders...(400 has adjoining cylinder walls that do not flow water between them) 

Will need to set the heads up in the mill and CAREFULLY drill the 6 holes in each head.

I found a couple cams that look like a winner.

One is the old 327/350 hp factory cam.....447" lift and 222 degree duration.
The big inches will cover much of the rumpiness of this cam.....

I have used this cam in a 400 years ago.....and it is just rumpy enough to give away that there might be something mean under the hood.......

I have never built a 400 with Vortec heads though......The vortecs will bump the compression ratio to about 9:1 or a tad more with the stock type pistons.....

But.....big power is not really the goal.....The original 391 Ford that came in this cat were about 250 hp and about 370 lbs of torque at 2000 RPM

The little mouse 406 will have zero trouble making all of 375 hp and 400 lbs of torque.....MAYBE MORE......But too much power will not do much ...except break chit......

I could go all out "BALLS TO THE WALL" but it will not really be useful and as mentioned.....BREAK THINGS....

Decent power and a nice Thumpy idle will be Purrrrrrrfect....

We shall see what shakes....

I have saved the stock rocker arms from the  Vortec heads and will need to replace the push rods (We need Gen One parts to use with the flat tappet hydraulic cam)

Trying to use as much stuff that came with the engines as possible.....

Currently that includes the 400 block (Now 406)
Factory crank and rods....New +.030 pistons
Vortec heads
Vortec center bolt valve covers
Stock 400 timing cover
6 quart road race gated pan (This will sit nice in the 2100 belly)
Stock Vortec mini starter
Serpentine front drive off the Vortec...
Late style alternator.....
1995 5.7 exhaust manifiolds (To get the damned thing to fit in the 2100 tub)

Vortec style aluminum intake that will accept the 750 cfm Quadrajet carb.

Gonna be fun.......>


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## Snowy Rivers

Got a bit more work done on the LH side.

Air bag arm welded up and the slot machined in for the bag perch position adjuster.....

The miserable hot weather is back again....ARRRRRRRGH
Getting too hot outside to beat on this stuff.

Next the inner tube gets the end piece welded in and the hole for the adjuster rod put in......

Thinking about making this side a tad different....We will see.....

Should keep the parts the same......


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## Snowy Rivers

Out at the Buttcrack of dawn when it was cool (Relative term)
Grabbed up the LH inner track adjuster and tossed it in the inner slide tube.....

Checked the measurements between the inner and outer adjusters and compared them to the RH side parts.

Very close......The inner adjuster was just tacked together... Set the inner bushing tube to it's sweet spot and tacked it up well....

Got the assembly off the cat and on the table.....Welded the best up.

Grabbed the pieces that go in the back end where the heim joint goes and fit them up....

Drilled the 1-1/8" holes in the adjuster to plug weld the plates that the heim joint goes between......

Drilled the 5/8" hole for the pin that goes through the heim joint (5/8" bolt cut and machined to fit in and slip inside the inner tube assembly.

All spiffy now.

Just too hot out there in the afternoon sun.....sitting at 90 F now....ARRRRRRRGH

I was looking at the exhaust clamps I used on the RH side to hold the center spacer tube halves together.....

Just a bit tacky.....Decided to go with some stainless steel T bolt clamps.....

Far nicer looking....

 A little tab with a couple holes in it can fasten to the thread on the clamp and to a hole in the Goat Wheel support to keep the clamps facing up and not down into harms way.....

Tomorrow will either be used to fab the air bag bracket up or maybe machine the adjuster nut units for the inner track adjuster or the air bag lower perch adjuster.

Will see wasssssup tomorrow when it gets here...

Now that the RH side is complete.....LH side can go quick......

Be nice to get the front axles done....


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## Snowy Rivers

I just found a RH/LH threaded adjust stud that I can screw the LH heim joint to and use the thing to turn the threaded bung down in the lathe a bit.
I tried to scare up some 5/8" 18 LH thread rod.....Waaaaaaaaaaaay too $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$....must be gold.....
Need to machine a little adapter to allow the 5/8" coarse thread to screw into the heim joint for the inner track adjuster.

I bought a set of RH and LH heim joints ....simply because they were available as a set cheaper than buying single units (Both RH)

Having a LH thread will make zero difference.....The heim joint simply makes the connection easier and allows the track adjuster tube to wobble around a bit in the slide tube and not bind up....

The pics show the heim joints threaded into the "Bung" These are designed for a .120" wall tube....I grab the bung in the lathe and turn the back end down to about  .800" and then slip it into my custom adapter..(Adpter is drilled and tapped to accept 5/8" 11 coarse threaded rod in the one end and the opposite end allows the .800" part of the "Bung" to slide in and be welded.

The double ended bolt is RH/LH and will work sweet to thread into the "LH bung" and allow it to be grabbed in the chuck of the lathe....
Little bolt was $8.00

A great little special tool should the need ever arise to make any new heim joint adapters....


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## Snowy Rivers

Again

Got out early while it was relatively cool outside.
Cut the materials and machined up the adjuster nut assemblies for the inner track adjuster and the air bag lower perch adjuster.

Same part....Just the little bracket is thicker on the track adjuster .... so the nut gets welded on in a slightly different spot on the tube is all.

The track adjuster assembly is easily replaced due to the amount of pressure that can be on the nut.....The Bag perch adjuster takes little to no stress....so it is installed and welded.....( A new one could be fitted by grinding off the weld and replacing the nut assembly and welding it....

The RH units started out different....but I decided to change the design in favor of something far less complicated.....

Nice to be where it's cool now and sucking on a cup of coffee......

Today is supposed to be the hottest day of this heat event....ARRRRRRRRGH...

But work got done....that's the important part...

Maybe tomorrow the air bag mount can get finished up....

Plate is marked for the bolt holes....Need to drill them and fit the plate into the top bag mount....THEN WELD....

I want to get all the parts made before I start the assembly.....

Since the assembly is identical to the RH side....Getting it together should be a snap.......


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## Snowy Rivers

Not much shaking today....

Was looking at the back of the cat this morning and the rubber mounting biscuits for the OC-12 were laying in the ledge of the tub.....

Thinking about this area and decided to snoop about a bit and see what can be scrounged up to build new mounts ......
What is there appears to be fairly close to what is shown in the parts book I have....

Thinking about going with Urethane for the biscuits.....
I can get a round 90 durometer round bar of Red urethane about 2 feet long pretty affordable....

Easy to cut this stuff in the band saw.....
A brad point drill will put the holes in easy enough.

The steel sleeve that goes through the biscuits is a bastard size......11/16" OD and uses 7/16" bolts

I can get 11/16" DOM tube (Drawn over mandrel) with a .495" ID    This is really close to the rusty POS that came out.....

The frame has a 3/4" slots for the Diffy to mount at the center.....

I am thinking that the 11/16" tube ...cut to stock length of 2-1/4" will be perfect.

It would seem that the original plan was to allow a little bit of wiggle room for the diffy to fit in and be able to move a tad bit in the chassis.

The axle outer mountings are slots on the outer ends and holes in the inner end of the frame pad..

The original parts picture shows shims to get the diffy center section sitting snug to the inner frame pads when the axle ends are in and snugged up.....

This should be pretty easy to get things happy....

The outer pads on the frame need a bit of love....Some of the ears on the plate have been broken off and welded back on at some earlier time.....

Going to clean that stuff up and add a heavy sleeve on the front side of the plate and then snug the bolts up......then weld the sleeve to the frame section to support the bolts better....

Everything is in fair shape....just needs a bit of TLC to be ready for prime time.....

A fair bit of torque on the frame to axle pads......

Just took a break for a day and looked at the butt end of the cat.......Yeah.....Where does the tail bolt on .....Buddy...


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## Snowy Rivers

Weather was a bit cooler today....
Got a fair bit done on the LH side...

Measured up the cover plate and the bump stop bracket on the RH side (Location of the bump stop and the mounting brackets)

The LH side is quite bit different than the RH side......

The cover plate on the RH side is a nice little rectangle.....Not so on the LH side.

The LH cover plate is a bastard shaped plate with an odd arrangement to blend into the splayed area of the tub that was originally for the big Ford 391 FT engine.

The tub on the 2100 with the 6 cylinder has a straight sides.....Where the V8 has a strange splayed panel on each side...

The Chevy small block manifolds  (Currently available ones) stick out just enough that a bit of extra room was needed...hence the cutouts and cover plates.

After measuring things all up and getting the location for the upper bump stop bracket figured out.....One issue popped up.....

Center bolt on the rear side of the plate was smack in the middle of where the small channel base for the bumper needed to be....

OK
Countersunk the hole and inserted a flat head Allen bolt....Drilled out the threaded hole in the flange plate and through the tub too..

Threads and nut can be seen in one piccy close to the head pipe.....

The channel base for the bumper is seen tacked to the cover plate...Then the outer piece of FB is seen sitting on a temporary piece...clamped in place....Tack welded to the channel.....

The angle support that goes under the ledge of the tub is tacked to the FB upright.

Holes drilled through the tub ledge.

Entire assembly off the cat and upside down on the work table....Too windy to weld the stuff up this afternoon....

Tomorrow morning may be quieter wind wise and possibly sneak in a few welds before it gets windy again..

The location on the bump stop bracket will work fine.....Slightly different look due to the different shape of the covers.

Still easy to remove the covers to access the exhaust manifold connections to the head pipes.

Next comes the air bag bracket......After measuring up for the bump stop.....the area just behind the Bump stop is wide open and the air bag bracket will bolt to the tub and to the single bolt on the forward cab mount tube bracket just as it's mate on the RH side has....

Once the upper bag bracket is mounted....the lower perch can be fabricated to match it's mate on the RH side....

Once these parts are done there are some things left to do to the LH axle shaft......

Drill the center hole in the end of the shaft..
Complete the air bag arm hub and then get the parts assembled and mark the shaft for the keyway and the hole for the through bolt....

Inner edge of the hub gets drilled and tapped for the puller attachment bolts.

Also need to weld the shaft to the spindle housing.....

3 of the 4 thrust washers still need machining....Washers are rough cut....Just need a trip to the lathe to get them to size...

Fun stuff for sure......


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Finished welding the upper bump stop bracket up this morning.
Discovered that the air bag kit was short by 2 of the bag to bracket screws....Ordered up some plus extras.

Weather changed.....hotter than yesterday.....Arrrrrgh...cooler tomorrow and Tuesday.
Will see what shakes.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Got after the air bag upper bracket this morning.
Better weather.....
Just plugging away at the pieces. 
The upper bag bracket is all welded up and bolted onto the tub now.

The relationship of the air bag bracket and the bump stop bracket are a little different from side to side....The location of actual bump stop is the same....

The difference is due only to the location of the exhaust cover panels  (The slight offset of the exhaust manifolds is the cause)

The outer portion of the bracket that bolts to the cab mount assembly is bolted up....just need to tack weld it to the the bag bracket and then remove for the final welding.....

Pretty easy stuff when the other side can be copied fairly close and then built.....

Tomorrow and Wed are gonna be sideways around here...The other half is getting a kidney stone blasted.....
Tomorrow is the Covid test and Wed morning is the procedure....

I may get something done tomorrow afternoon.....not gonna count on anything at this juncture....

I am pleased at how well the pieces are coming together.....

I did scare up a 2-3/4" urethane round bar to make the diffy mounts from....

90 durometer Black urethane....
Once the diffy is back in the chassis and the axle tube ends are snugged into the outer brackets....then we can see whats up and then cut the biscuits...With any luck the lower urethane biscuits can be cut to fit with minimal shimming.

The factory used 16 gauge and 10 gauge shims.....Likely a select fit arrangement to get things spot on......

If I can cut the biscuits to size it will save a lot of fooling around......

The upper biscuits are pretty much along for the ride.....


Fun stuff...

Gonna be lots more fun building the new engine......

Likely the last task will be building the tracks.....

Once the chassis is ready to go.....Then full attention can be directed to the track project.
We have enough grousers, tire guides and backing plates now to do the job.

Looks like the tire guides will be a mix of Gen 1 and Gen 2 style.

Would have been sweet to have been able to scare up two full sets of the Gen 3 style tire guides.

I have a few....but not nearly enough to do even one track.....

The Gen 2 guides are pretty sturdy.

Most of the Gen 1 guides off the  1 track we just got are junk....(Some are repairable....but we have enough good ones....so why screw with the junk)
Track 2 looks like all are Gen 2

I am pretty sure the tracks I got were not from the same machine.....

The one track was a hodge podge of splices, laps and were a mess....

All the rubber went to the trash....The grousers were sorted into RH and LH and the junkers culled out.....

Looking at the stuff we got with the cat ...we did get a lacing grouser.....This will make getting the lacers all bolted on easily.

Track 2 has been spliced with a second lacer set in the middle....Not sure if we have enough hinges to do both tracks with what came on the two.....But I have enough Flexco 550 lacers to do both tracks....(New parts)

Ahh yessss.

It is coming along.

Finally getting enough parts to build the tracks was a big relief for sure....


But we are a fair bit away from tracks as yet.....

Later troops....


----------



## HillBilt

Nice work Snowy, I've been following along. Really interested in the steam porting head work when you get to it, cool stuff. No pun intended


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Thank you.

The siamese cylinders required the holes.....I have the factory 400 heads....But aside from the fact that they were junk to begin with...The Vortec heads from the L31 pickup engine will give us better compression ratio (About 9:1 or maybe 9.5:1 if we are lucky.

I bought the stock type dished pistons as they are easy to come by and very reasonably priced.

Still lamenting over the cam I want to use.....
I want a good mid range cam.....But also want a bit of a THUMP at idle.....There are a few choices...

The stock Vortec heads will allow up to about .470" lift without having to machine the valve guides down....and the stock springs are good too at those lower valve lifts.

The Vortecs flow really good in the low .400" range....so why screw around spending $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to get a high lift cam to fit.
The max RPM is gonna be in the 4500 range.....Again, so why spend $$$$$ on special valve springs and other parts.

The stock self guided 1.5:1 rockers (Saved them off the L31) are all in great shape......

Did some snooping around to see what can be had for a good radiator to cool this critter.

Griffin has one that will fit in the 2100 tub  (24" wide x 19" tall with 2 rows of 1-1/4" tubes) They rate it at 600 to 700 hp cooling capacity.....

I have the 21" clutch fan that came on the L31 engine (1998 5.7 pickup) and I have a suitable GM fan shroud that is split top/bottom....and with a bit of Franken mods it will fit in the tub....

I thought about electrics to save on room.....but the electric fans will not move as much air that the big belt driven windmill will....Plus the electrics hog more off the battery and alternator.....

The Steam hole project will be into the winter some time before I get to it.....

6 holes in each head...3 that are square to the deck.....and 3 that are on a 30 degree angle so they hit the water passage in the head

Gonna set the heads up in the mill to do the steam holes........

Going to have to make a couple brackets to hold the heads at the proper angles and allow bolting them to the mill table...

Just more fooling around.....


----------



## western auto

Snowy Rivers said:


> Thank you.
> 
> The siamese cylinders required the holes.....I have the factory 400 heads....But aside from the fact that they were junk to begin with...The Vortec heads from the L31 pickup engine will give us better compression ratio (About 9:1 or maybe 9.5:1 if we are lucky.
> 
> I bought the stock type dished pistons as they are easy to come by and very reasonably priced.
> 
> Still lamenting over the cam I want to use.....
> I want a good mid range cam.....But also want a bit of a THUMP at idle.....There are a few choices...
> 
> The stock Vortec heads will allow up to about .470" lift without having to machine the valve guides down....and the stock springs are good too at those lower valve lifts.
> 
> The Vortecs flow really good in the low .400" range....so why screw around spending $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to get a high lift cam to fit.
> The max RPM is gonna be in the 4500 range.....Again, so why spend $$$$$ on special valve springs and other parts.
> 
> The stock self guided 1.5:1 rockers (Saved them off the L31) are all in great shape......
> 
> Did some snooping around to see what can be had for a good radiator to cool this critter.
> 
> Griffin has one that will fit in the 2100 tub  (24" wide x 19" tall with 2 rows of 1-1/4" tubes) They rate it at 600 to 700 hp cooling capacity.....
> 
> I have the 21" clutch fan that came on the L31 engine (1998 5.7 pickup) and I have a suitable GM fan shroud that is split top/bottom....and with a bit of Franken mods it will fit in the tub....
> 
> I thought about electrics to save on room.....but the electric fans will not move as much air that the big belt driven windmill will....Plus the electrics hog more off the battery and alternator.....
> 
> The Steam hole project will be into the winter some time before I get to it.....
> 
> 6 holes in each head...3 that are square to the deck.....and 3 that are on a 30 degree angle so they hit the water passage in the head
> 
> Gonna set the heads up in the mill to do the steam holes........
> 
> Going to have to make a couple brackets to hold the heads at the proper angles and allow bolting them to the mill table...
> 
> Just more fooling around.....


comp extreme energy 4x4 cams have a ton of torque and a good lope many versions to choose from


----------



## Snowy Rivers

I have spoken with the folks at Comp cams.......They were pretty skimpy on a cam that can work with the stock Vortec L31 heads.
IF....and this is a big IF I decide to machine the valve guide height down....plus cut the spring pockets to accept performance springs...

Then we have a huge selection of cams to look at

One little caveat.

The Vortec heads with stock springs and stock guide height.....about .450" lift is pushing it to the limit..

There are a few choices...../The old 327/350 horse cam is a .447 lift 222 duration.
I had one of those in a 1979 GMC 2500 4x4 with a 400 small block

Had a nice lope at idle and pulled pretty good.

Not the best grind....
Just can't bring myself to want to toss big $$$ into a set up for an engine that is going to run a max of 4500 RPM

The stock L31 pickup engine is redline at around 5000.....

All the trick springs and machine work to go 6500 or more......Not this time.

4500RPM will yield about 15 mph......PLENTY

6000 RPM would yield 20 mph

I don't think 20 mph with the big azz tracks on the 2100 would be advisable....
Even at 43" wide and about 1000lbs each on the tracks....a lot of weight thrashing about.....

The driveshaft also needs to be thought about.

Spinning that shaft at that speed is a tad scary too.

Summit cams has a K1102 and a K1103 CAM
The K1102 is right in the sweet spot on the lift......444 on the EXH AND .421 on the int.
The K1103 cam is .444 and .466

Summit says that it will work on stock vortec heads.

I am going to need to rip the springs off and measure the distance between the spring retainer and the valve seal to see wassssssssup in there for room.

Also the distance between the coils of the spring too....

The stock L32 cam has a lift of .414 and .442
So anything close should be workable.

We shall see as time goes by.....
I really think that the 406 should provide plenty of GIDDYUPGO even with a pretty tame cam.


----------



## western auto

just change the rocker ratio and run the factory cam, that would be plenty


----------



## Snowy Rivers

The engine is a 1980 block 400.....The L31 block had the roller cam in it......That block went away...(Sold it)
The Vortec heads use a self guiding rocker arm

I have the complete set of rockers, pivot balls and the nuts...

Yes...the factory stuff would likely be fine for the application.
I thought about going with a roller cam....But need the after market roller lifters.......

Ah whizzzzzz...Just gonna hafta see what shakes out.....

There are several options for sure


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Back in the groove....
Weather was marvelous today with low 70's this afternoon.

Got the axle shaft welded to the spindle casting......Then stuffed the shaft into the adjuster brackets (Large Red bushings)

Grabbed a long straight edge and got the new axle hub lined up with axle 2 and 3 .... then measured for the thick outer end thrust washer 1-11/16 thick.

Got the washer set all machined and ready to go.

Next comes getting the air bag arm hub situated on the shaft and the key way and through bolt hole located.

Fabricated an elevation fixture to set the LH spindle the same as the RH ...(Same location from the top of the adjuster )

Once the Key way is cut and the through bolt hole is done...then the arm brackets can be welded to the hub and the arm.

Tack these bad boys up and then get the assembly off to weld it up.

The end of the axle needs to be drilled and tapped for the center bolt.
Also need to drill and tap the two holes for the puller to bolt on too.....

So far the entire assembly is very close dimension wise to the RH side....Very small differencesl.....1/16" is all.

Close enough for the crowd I run with......

Made a small running change in the bag arm hub to make the assembly easier to fabricate.

Looks the same...just easier to weld together......

Pics.
Large washer just cut
A couple views of the finished washers
The very inside end washer needs the clearance notch cut to allow the key to clear.
A couple shots with the straight edge getting the front hub lined up with the others.

And away we go.......more fun...


----------



## rdynes01

TMI........TMI..........TMI.......TMI...........TMI.........TMI.......


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## Snowy Rivers

THEN DON'T BOTHER READING THIS THREAD.....Do you post TMI to all the threads by others with major rebuild projects that show all the details  ??? ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH


----------



## rdynes01

To be honest,I don't read the vast majority of your thread which is filled with unnecessary info such as your water heater went out, the weather in your area, a tool you're using broke, your roof has a leak, etc. ,etc., etc.,. Your project is the first one I've ever criticized for the length of it and God knows life interrupts our projects, but 52 pages and this is where you're at with it? Think of all the progress you could have if spent on the project instead of posting ,like I said TMI !! Now I fully expect to get hammered for this rant but I believe time spent posting 52 pages worth of "details" could have been better spent moving this project forward.....just calling it as I see it.....Bob


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## Snowy Rivers

Build your own cat having the amount of work required  as this one has and then call me up and tell me how easy it was.

Folks here like to see the human side of things too.....
This is a family thing ya know..

We all have lives and are not robots with an endless checkbook to toss at a project.....

Rant Off


----------



## vintagebike

Snowy has the time and energy to re-build an ancient Snow Cat, take care of all the stuff around her life AND post about it.   That’s what I call a life well lived…


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## Snowy Rivers

Thanks VB

Not sure how "WELL" we are living...?????  
The cat project goes back to when I was 16 YO and fell in love with one that was here on the property owned by a contractor building a heavy power line for the local power company.

Nobody in their right mind would try this at home....HENCE the statement by many....Snow cats are a disease with no cure....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

The LH side is getting closer.

Assembled the axle into the adjusters......Got the air bag arm set into the assembly and getting ready to tack weld up the arm to the hub.

Maybe BOB will come over and help me....  

Axle shaft is pretty well done...
Key way cut, end of shaft drilled and tapped....Through bolt hole drilled


----------



## western auto

rdynes01 said:


> To be honest,I don't read the vast majority of your thread which is filled with unnecessary info such as your water heater went out, the weather in your area, a tool you're using broke, your roof has a leak, etc. ,etc., etc.,. Your project is the first one I've ever criticized for the length of it and God knows life interrupts our projects, but 52 pages and this is where you're at with it? Think of all the progress you could have if spent on the project instead of posting ,like I said TMI !! Now I fully expect to get hammered for this rant but I believe time spent posting 52 pages worth of "details" could have been better spent moving this project forward.....just calling it as I see it.....Bob


starting a sentence with "to be honest" makes one think that normally your not........based on your statement it sounds like you might be bending the truth a bit and in fact you have read most of this thread


----------



## DAVENET

Nah, he just has incontrollable click finger syndrome.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

I have been on the Diesel Pickup boards since 2001 and am currently one of the mods at "The Diesel Page".....We see all kinds go through...

I am not offended by this type of post....but do find that it raises a big question ??????????????  WHY do people hide behind their computer and make caustic comments about the work and efforts of others......??????

I scanned this other persons list of posts on this venue, VERY limited input.

Does not appear that they have, or have had a cat.......

Few people realize just what sort of work is involved to even do a basic renovation on a cat using stock parts......let alone whats involved when you get into the depths of trying to design "new parts" and then procuring materials to manufacture said parts, or to modify an existing item to work and maybe do what is needed.

Our troopers here that own these ancient cats (Scrap iron)   know all too well about the "Roll your own projects"

To make a statement/statements as has been posted about the number of pages as compared to how far along this project is really baffles me.

I spend probably 10 x more physical time researching, figuring (Imagineering) and doodling on paper with my tape measure, digital calipers and such in hand compared to the time out at the cat welding, machining and assembling.

That S10 cab did not jump onto the cat chassis, the new front axle assembly did not come in a box left on the the stoop by THE LITTLE BROWN TRUCK ......

My hat is off to anyone that is willing to step up to the plate and take on even the most basic of rebuilds on one of these old piles of rusty gold.

If not for having the Mill and the lathe in the shop.....I would not have started this project.

Hiring out custom build to suit parts would be so costly.....one could go buy a good used "turn key" machine.

As all of you folks here know ....these cats are a labor of love.......

Some days I may only sit and make sketches to get an idea worked out.....and or possibly make one little part.....But it is satisfying when it comes together.....

I have seen some folks here drag home the most gawd awful looking stuff and turn it into a thing of beauty......This puts a smile on my face...EVERY TIME..... I see the blood sweat and tears that went into these projects.....and appreciate the long hours and the hard labor that went into it..

To the person who can hide behind their computer and write caustic abbreviations on a post and make critical comment of the hard work of others.

I have an abbreviation for Y'all.......Not very lady like...so I will refrain from posting it......Let the imagination fill in the blanks....

Thank you troops for the help, the "Likes" and the comments.....

Yeah....Maybe my posts can get a tad on the WTMI side....But someone out there may well find a useful tid bit that will help them.

This forum is like a family, we all share a common interest...( Likely many) and have lives to live off these pages.....Some of us are retired, others have a day job...... I see many with children.......

The amount of effort it takes these days to just survive in this age of a pandemic and other crap going on sure takes it's toll......

Rant off


----------



## Snowy Rivers

I just reread Bobs post carefully

Instead of wasting my time posting the details of how this project managed to get from Scrap iron to a finished cat.....
Seems I should have just posted a BEFORE picture...and then an AFTER PICTURE.....

Just leave out all the details ......WTMI 

Nobody cares about that stuff....


OMG
If that were true.....then there would be no reason to have these wonderful forums to share with others would there ????

That sort of attitude brings to mind a person with a very sorry life indeed....

Whatcha all think ????


----------



## PJL

If you write it, I'll read it.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

THANK YOU.....


----------



## rdynes01

Snowy Rivers said:


> I have been on the Diesel Pickup boards since 2001 and am currently one of the mods at "The Diesel Page".....We see all kinds go through...
> 
> I am not offended by this type of post....but do find that it raises a big question ??????????????  WHY do people hide behind their computer and make caustic comments about the work and efforts of others......??????
> 
> I scanned this other persons list of posts on this venue, VERY limited input.
> 
> Does not appear that they have, or have had a cat.......
> 
> Few people realize just what sort of work is involved to even do a basic renovation on a cat using stock parts......let alone whats involved when you get into the depths of trying to design "new parts" and then procuring materials to manufacture said parts, or to modify an existing item to work and maybe do what is needed.
> 
> Our troopers here that own these ancient cats (Scrap iron)   know all too well about the "Roll your own projects"
> 
> To make a statement/statements as has been posted about the number of pages as compared to how far along this project is really baffles me.
> 
> I spend probably 10 x more physical time researching, figuring (Imagineering) and doodling on paper with my tape measure, digital calipers and such in hand compared to the time out at the cat welding, machining and assembling.
> 
> That S10 cab did not jump onto the cat chassis, the new front axle assembly did not come in a box left on the the stoop by THE LITTLE BROWN TRUCK ......
> 
> My hat is off to anyone that is willing to step up to the plate and take on even the most basic of rebuilds on one of these old piles of rusty gold.
> 
> If not for having the Mill and the lathe in the shop.....I would not have started this project.
> 
> Hiring out custom build to suit parts would be so costly.....one could go buy a good used "turn key" machine.
> 
> As all of you folks here know ....these cats are a labor of love.......
> 
> Some days I may only sit and make sketches to get an idea worked out.....and or possibly make one little part.....But it is satisfying when it comes together.....
> 
> I have seen some folks here drag home the most gawd awful looking stuff and turn it into a thing of beauty......This puts a smile on my face...EVERY TIME..... I see the blood sweat and tears that went into these projects.....and appreciate the long hours and the hard labor that went into it..
> 
> To the person who can hide behind their computer and write caustic abbreviations on a post and make critical comment of the hard work of others.
> 
> I have an abbreviation for Y'all.......Not very lady like...so I will refrain from posting it......Let the imagination fill in the blanks....
> 
> Thank you troops for the help, the "Likes" and the comments.....
> 
> Yeah....Maybe my posts can get a tad on the WTMI side....But someone out there may well find a useful tid bit that will help them.
> 
> This forum is like a family, we all share a common interest...( Likely many) and have lives to live off these pages.....Some of us are retired, others have a day job...... I see many with children.......
> 
> The amount of effort it takes these days to just survive in this age of a pandemic and other crap going on sure takes it's toll......
> 
> Rant off


----------



## rdynes01

I really don't think I'm hiding behind anything; I'm a long standing member of the forum and was just  expressing my opinion, the purpose of a forum or am I wrong? and the fact that I really haven't read all the posts on this thread and the fact that his/her first  reply is almost a full page of this thread attests to my use of TMI. I've been a member here for 14 years and in that time I've owned and sold a 53 743 Freighter and 2 Imps here  so, so much for your research talents. I come here to gain USEFUL information, not life stories so much especially in the Snowcat Repair and Restoration area of this forum.To quote someone famous " keep it pithy".... Reply off, rather than, rant off....Bob


----------



## vintagebike

This ain't Twitter


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Well Bob.

As mentioned...This ain't twitter...Tain't face book either....
But...You are certainly welcome to come and help...... I can always use an extra pair of hands.
You run a Bridgeport ????  mig Weld, spin the knobs on a lathe ???? 
I have old school tools....Not the fancy CNC stuff mind ya
I do ramble on a lot....I have even been known to talk to myself while I work too.....Surprising the good answers I get....

Yeah buddy....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Anyway...

Back to the build.

Today was a productive day....
Got the air bag arm fit with it's hub, the hub located and the axle set at the proper full down position....The unit welded up.

Installed the assembly (Less the air bag and the lower perch.

The bag will be soon to get bolted in and things fitted up

After the assembly was fit I tossed the straight edge back on the wheel hubs to check the location.... 

Still a ways to go....but we are gaining ground......

Pics show pretty much the details.
The threaded puller holes can be seen in the bag arm hub.

Yeah Bob.....No hard feelings....Just do come and help....always can use a hand


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Weather closed in this morning....I do not want the new unpainted parts rusty....

Managed to get the inner axle cap machined up.....

But today is likely going to be a bust.....
Here is the LH axle cap pics

Nothing much of great interest.....But it's a part that has to be there..

It not only covers the axle end to prevent damage, but it is a tool as well to help get the air bag arm shoved into place so the through bolt can be installed...

It is either that or whack on the arm with the soft hammer.....messes up the paint....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Weather was wonderful today....
Got after the bag perch on the LH side
Had to machine the perch  tad to make up for the slight anomaly in the stack....

All welded up, drilled and sitting in astraddle of the bag arm.
Tomorrow the spacers that align the perch and keep it centered on the arm get cut, machined and welded into the perch.

Threaded in a couple pieces of thread rod to line the bag up as it sits....Measured for the spacers....

A few pics...

Bob has not been over to help yet ......Sad deal.....I would love some company.....

Ah well....such is life....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

I was able to get more done on the LH axle today

The bag perch is finished now....(Inner spacers machined and welded in place)
The adjust nut bracket machined and the nut assembly in place and tack welded....
The bag perch adjuster slide is complete now.....
Things will need to wait until the arm can come off to weld the adjust nut assembly in place.

I got a call this morning from the fella I got the tracks from....He has some 2100 rear axle shafts (Spares) and some large bearing aluminum wheels with excellent tires.

Caveat with the wheels....there are 3 wheels in all with bearings that went to hell....The bearing bores are damaged....


Sooooooooooooooooooooo..

Going to make a fixture and place the tire/wheel assembly on the mill and bore the damaged area out and fit a sleeve.....

This may be a tad tedious to get things set up........Hopefully......there will be at least the dust cover bore still good to indicate things in and get to a reference point.

Good winter project when I can't work outside.

Putting the factory large bearing alloy wheels and tires on the four outer corners should work well.....
The custom snowflake wheels I built can fill in the center 6 places

Slowly this big beast is coming together.......


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Finished getting the air bag bolted to the bracket and the lower perch bolted on.

Got the Street L  and the schrader valve threaded into the air bag....
Everything fits as it should.

Notice on the one picture.....There is a white mark on the inner track adjuster slide tube.

The center of the bolt in the lower bag perch needs to line up with the line (Will be marked on the tube) when the track is adjusted.

This places the air bag in the proper position to be able to function through the arc of the arm under operating conditions.

Simply turning the large nut assembly at the rear of the bag arm slides the perch fore and aft on the arm in the slot. 

Once things are in the sweet spot the jam nut is tightened up..(Jam nut not on the threaded rod yet)


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Getting close now.
Pulled the axle shaft out and removed the inner track adjuster unit.
Installed the Heim joint and threaded adjuster rod and stuffed things back together.

Finished up the nut assembly....then machined the bracket that holds the nut assembly.

Got the rod threaded into the nut and then mounted the bracket and tack welded it.

Yanked all the stuff back off.

Tomorrow the last of the welding gets done on the track adjuster and air bag arm parts.

Then its time to rip the entire pile of goodies off the chassis....Clean it and get paint on it.

Once the paint is on and dry the entire package can go together for the last time.

Weather still looking good for a few more days....then there is rain showers showing up in the long range forecast.

I want this axle thing all done before rain flies.....

After that axle is finished....not sure just what we will head into next.

I would like to get the driveshaft finished....but the rear diffy needs to go back in before the shaft can be done...

Rather late in the season to drag the diffy back out....
When it goes in I want to leave it there.

I still need to get the one axle bearing off the axle and then clean it up.....

I machined the "Wedding bands" to hold the bearings back last year....I still need to bore them and get them ready to heat up and drop onto the shaft.

For now we shall take it one day at a time......

See what the weather does and fit in little projects as we can.....

This total rebuild of the front axle has taken far longer then I had imagined it would.

But all considered.....One helluvalot of design work, let alone the fabrication and machining.....

Lets just hope that it works well.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Definitely got at it today.
Ripped the entire LH axle assembly off the cat.

Washed the side of the tub down to get the old orange paint acceptable to shoot some black on it...at least to a point behind the new front axle suspension.....

Finished the welding on the inner track adjuster tube and the air bag arm perch adjuster.

Washed all the parts up to get off all the anti spatter spray and any other crap that will keep the paint from sticking.....

Shot the parts with some gloss black....

Let the paint dry while I ran to town to get a few last minute fasteners I wanted to replace.....Nylock nuts, some lock washers, and some other grade 8 hardware for the final assembly (I had used a lot of used trashy bolts for the preliminary setup and assemblies.

All fresh grade 8 stuff this trip around.

Still need to slip the outer tack adjuster out, wash it up and paint it....

The axle was in a perfect spot to shoot some paint on the spindle casting......

While the outer adjuster paint is drying I will assemble the grease cylinder, the hose and other stuff....Then put that assembly together.

Once the outer unit is all in....The shaft, thrust washers, the air bag arm and such can all go back on.

The only part left to make is the little split spacer tube that goes between the two center thrust washers.....

The cool little clamps are here now.....Still in the Amazon baggy.....


Late tomorrow....maybe into the weekend and the front axles will be finished....

Have not heard back on a time frame to pick up the large bearing alloy wheels/tires.

The story is that there are 3 of them that lost bearing/s
I do not know the extent of the damage.

Possibly the seal area is all that is damaged.?????

One of the original hubs on this machine had lost a bearing....and the seal was torn out and the seal bore fouled...

Dealing with boring the hub bores will be interesting with a tire on the wheel (Filled tires)

But I did haul one of my wheel/tire assemblies into the shop and toss it on the mill table.....A repair is doable....a little "Squaring and jigging" should gitterdone....

Worth the time and effort for sure.

If all goes well I should end up with 6 of the aluminum large bearing wheels/tires.

Fill in the rest with my custom snowflake wheels......

Gonna be sweet to get this old girl back up on all of it's wheels.......

Thinking seriously about yanking the 305 and the TH350 back out for the winter and getting the Tranny in on the bench.

Good job for winter...going through the gearbox.

Gotta snoop about and find my tranny tools.
Pump pullers, bushing drivers.....and other special tools....

Decided to make this a select shift (Full manual box) Dash 3 shift kit will get that......

The extremely low butt gears will be a royal PITA trying to calibrate the governor and the modulator to work worth a damn....Just make it a select shift...... More like the big farm tractors....

Still need to think through the output shaft and tail house area to sort out keeping the slip yoke on the drive shaft from moving in and out......

Will depend on how the center support on the double/double shaft assembly all comes together.....

The drive shaft is from an S10 extreme (Extended cab)
Short SHAFT at the tranny with a single cardan joint at the slip yoke...then the center support bearing and then a double cardan joint....the rear tube and then another double cardan joint with a bolt on flange that adapts to the custom pinion flange I machined up...

The double double will make life real forgiving as far as the drive line angles.....Looks like about 2 degrees at the single and then the rest will fall into place....A small angle at each connection will make everybody happy..

I have never run a double double before.

A couple pics of the shaft assembly

The short section gets cut and a pretty good chunk taken out.....The other shaft is the double double....Slip yoke on one end and the bolt on flange on the other.

The new pinion flange is a modified unit from an M211 GMC Deuce and a half (1953 vintage)

The nice thing about the double double shaft is that the regular rules governing U JOINTS and shafts can be tweaked a lot and things still run smooth.

Just for anyone not familiar with the term "Double cardan joint"  (Constant velocity)
Biggest issue with these bad boys is the centering ball must be greased every so often or the ball wears out and then the beast will shaker your azz out of the seat......

This shaft uses the GM 3R U JOINTS....and the centering ball, spring and other goodies all come in a handy little kit to allow easy R&R

The pinion flange adapter was a NOS part still in the original box from the army.

The mods needed to fit the OC-12 were minimal
Removed the oil slinger and shortened the snout about 1/4"

Splines were identical....Made the swap a walk in the park....
Had to relieve the area around the pinion nut a skosh....no worries.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Got the outer track adjuster (Original with grease cylinder) put together and the assembly installed...

The LH grease cylinder was the original type....

Story on the cylinder is about like many things I found on this cat....Real Fubar.
The V packing seal was torn to rat crap....and some clown had been pumping grease into things until hell wouldn't have it.

The entire LH frame rail was stuffed full of grease.....(I am not exaggerating either....That bad boy was stuffed.....

The issue was one of poor knowledge and they would have been better off if they had left the hammer in the tool box...

The lip seal was chopped badly.......The snap ring groove is sharp and the seal slides in and the inner edge of the groove catches the seal.....

No way to slip a "Slider" between the seal and the cylinder to shoe horn the sucker in.

I tossed the cylinder in the lathe and run a boring bar in and tapered the inner edge of the ring groove out into the bore to allow the seal to slide on in without cutting the lip.

Polished the area really well to make things go.....
The piston slid right in.....removed it and double checked the seal..... 

Getting the parts back on.
The air bag arm is ready to go on now.....

Checked the location of the assembly with the cylinder fully closed (Adjustment at "0" )
For some reason the assembly is 5/8" farther forward that the RH side...

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

All the slider parts and such, the cylinder back head and everything I can measure are the same.
The cylinder on the LH side definitely had been off/replaced.....
I kept the parts with each cylinder together.....I did not have the cylinders  close to each other....but I suspect the rod in the LH side may be a skosh longer.

5/8" is not gonna kill things....Just Odd that there is that much difference......

I will assume that the track adjuster runs about in the middle of it's travel when the track is happy..??????

With this machine it does not surprise me at all.....


A piccy as we stand as of this evening....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Pretty well wrapped up the LH front axle this morning.

Just need to grease up the center spacer tube  ( Halves ) and get the Stainless steel clamps on..

A friend stopped by and we had  good chat session.

The subject of using the Astro van on the cat came up......

We beat on that subject a bit.....I am still quite interested in that combination.....

I have have thought about the work involved to get the van up on the cat.....

I may have an idea to simplify that plan.......

I put an ad on Craigs to see if anything with a dead engine/tranny is out there dirt cheap...

At this point....it's at least worth exploring the idea again.....

The only down side is the limited access for maintenance......

We shall see....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Sitting here crunching some numbers on the Idea of fitting the Astro body to the cat.

WEIGHT is a big concern.

Removing the original front sub frame.
ENGINE
TRANNY
SUSPENSION
TIRES/WHEELS
Radiator (Original)
The drive shaft
Rear axle & springs

Best guess seems to indicate this will shed about 2000 lbs

Keeping the fuel tank in the body is not a bad plan....

Lifting the body up so the cat can be rolled under it may be a lot easier than I had figured.

CAMPER JACKS on a temporary set of tubes attached to the underside of the body may well simplify the task greatly.
With the sub frame gone from the front will really open up things.
The front bumper normally mounts to the sub frame.....but could easily attach to a bracket on top of cat tub......

Just thinking outside the box a bit here......


----------



## Snowy Rivers

LH Front suspension is done.....So both of the front axles are now completed.
Decided to get the original aluminum front wheels out and cleaned up.....Knocked out the old bearings.

The bearings were as ugly as 25 miles of death valley fire trail.
A few pics of the races....These were just about to the stage where they start to inhale themselves and then chew up the hub....
All the bearings are being replaced....

I wanted to get well greased bearings and fresh seals on all the spindles.

The front tires are nothing to write home about....but they will be fine until we are ready to install the tracks.
Actually they would be OK for a few short test runs....

Side walls are sad....but they are filled...

The 3rd hub on the LH side had the nasty looking bearings....also the lug studs had been replaced with 9/16" studs and they were not even tight in the hub.....So the PO welded them in (Cast iron hub...yeah right)

I tossed that mess in the trash and replaced with new.

Spindle was perfect.....installed new hub, bearings and seal.

Still need to freshen up the last two hubs on the LH side.....

The alloy wheel/tire sits on a pallet with the bearings removed....Ready for the new races to go in and then pack the bearings with grease and assemble them....

Ran out of cotter pins......The last two I took apart had bent nails in them....GAWD.

Will see if anything can be had tomorrow.....Gonna get a handful of spares and toss on the shelf in the spares dept.

Going to get the rest of the hubs refreshed and then move on....

The one custom wheel on the number 3 axle LH side....

Need to start scaring up some tires......

SOOOOOO

All the spindles are in good shape....The last ones that are untouched as yet all need new bearings, but are not to the point of chewing themselves up....
I think a couple actually spin fairly quiet.....All getting replaced anyway....
The two fronts will need speedi sleeves on the seal rides....Pretty nasty groove worn in the ride.... Speedi sleeves will make them like new again.......


----------



## PJL

I think the Astrovan is still the best idea.  You will like the extra room.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

PJL
I thinks so too....at least from the perspective of the extra room.

The one issue that worries me is having access to pull maintenance on things.

The doghouse cover will allow some access to the rear of the engine....Not sure how possible it's going to be to get at the front of the engine for things like the serp belt.......

With the  sub frame removed there will be more room under the front end.

Just thinking a bit here......

Can't say for absolute sure...BUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT...There may be a way to turn the front sheet metal into a full tilt forward.

The outer fenders, inner fenders and the core support are all bolted together to form a unit assembly that sits on the core support up front via the biscuit mounts.....

Cut the fenders loose from the front of the body and add a light tube structural  member as close to the firewall as possible to stabilize the fenders.....
Fasten the hood to the fender and core support unit.

Do a similar ditty low on the outer fenders and cut then on a 45 degree slice to allow the unit to clear as it tilts forward.

I SEE THAT SOME RESEARCH IS NEEDED TO SEE WHERE THE ASTRO COMES APART AND THEN CHEW ON HOW IT CAN BE DONE......

RAT ROD STYLE  

With the engine in the belly of the 2100 tub and the radiator is 19" high ...this will (24 wide x 19 high cross flow )
Should be able to keep enough area up front to allow the tilt front end to be able to open far enough to allow good access to the engine.


Bottom line.

Any major work....the body is going to need to come off......

Definitely sounds interesting


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Headed back to the RH side and got the Front wheel/hub assembly washed up....Bearings all replaced and stuffed back onto the spindle.

Between interruptions,  I managed to get the number two hub off and gone through as well....Again, bearings look like a lot of bad road....
Spindles are sweet.
Ripped off the number 3 hub....got it stripped out and ready to buff off the rust and crud.

Again...bearings JUNK.
I ran out of wheel bearing grease....need to get more.
The number 3 had some baling wire where the cotter pin should be....

Just sad what some folks try to get away with.

I mean...out in the sticks....anything that will get ya home is fine....But this machine was a 5 alarm train wreck all over....

So the number 4 hub is all that's left on the RH side....I replaced #5 hub last summer.....It was shot.....lug stud holes FUBAR'D
LH side still needs 4 and 5 to be reworked....They are noisy...but not trashed.

I bought enough new bearings and seals to redo all of the hubs....GOOD TO GO.


----------



## m1west

Snowy Rivers said:


> PJL
> I thinks so too....at least from the perspective of the extra room.
> 
> The one issue that worries me is having access to pull maintenance on things.
> 
> The doghouse cover will allow some access to the rear of the engine....Not sure how possible it's going to be to get at the front of the engine for things like the serp belt.......
> 
> With the  sub frame removed there will be more room under the front end.
> 
> Just thinking a bit here......
> 
> Can't say for absolute sure...BUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT...There may be a way to turn the front sheet metal into a full tilt forward.
> 
> The outer fenders, inner fenders and the core support are all bolted together to form a unit assembly that sits on the core support up front via the biscuit mounts.....
> 
> Cut the fenders loose from the front of the body and add a light tube structural  member as close to the firewall as possible to stabilize the fenders.....
> Fasten the hood to the fender and core support unit.
> 
> Do a similar ditty low on the outer fenders and cut then on a 45 degree slice to allow the unit to clear as it tilts forward.
> 
> I SEE THAT SOME RESEARCH IS NEEDED TO SEE WHERE THE ASTRO COMES APART AND THEN CHEW ON HOW IT CAN BE DONE......
> 
> RAT ROD STYLE
> 
> With the engine in the belly of the 2100 tub and the radiator is 19" high ...this will (24 wide x 19 high cross flow )
> Should be able to keep enough area up front to allow the tilt front end to be able to open far enough to allow good access to the engine.
> 
> 
> Bottom line.
> 
> Any major work....the body is going to need to come off......
> 
> Definitely sounds interesting


Why not just use 1" sq. tube, to build a cab that fits and tilts then skin it, similar to the original, but in any shape you desire.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

I have thought of that
Honestly
I am just not up to a redesign and build on a cab
Took me all summer to build the two axle units 
Using a ready made (S10 cab or Astro van has everything plug and play pretty much )


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Took some time and sorted through all the tires and wheels I have accumulated through trades.

Looks like there are enough JUNK to get something "Black and round" on all 10 positions.

The two fronts are Falline filled tires....nothing to write home to mom about....but will be fine for the rest of the build and some testing.
The remainder of the stuff that came on the cat were air fill tires.....The wheels are crap....probably just clean the wheels and shoot them with silver paint for now..

There are a couple "Snow cat special" tires only....Nott too bad.....May toss them on a couple of my home brew wheels to fill up the remaining spots.

Looking at the various options on tires.

There are some nice looking 10 ply radials in 12" that are pretty much the same as the 5.30 x12 stockers

Whatever ends up will be filled on the front locations.....

Still waiting to see what shakes out on the alloy wheels with tires that lost bearings....
Nothing shaking as yet....

Still fooling about doing R & R on the remaining hubs and bearings.....

Nothing really exciting at this point.....


----------



## vintagebike

A trailer fabricator in Boise built this aluminum body on top of a Cushman Trackster for our "doodlecat'. That's a 1958 Trackmaster 4VL idling in the background. 




Your browser is not able to display this video.


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## m1west

Snowy Rivers said:


> I have thought of that
> Honestly
> I am just not up to a redesign and build on a cab
> Took me all summer to build the two axle units
> Using a ready made (S10 cab or Astro van has everything plug and play pretty much )


Gutting it all out for a nice fit plus mounting it will be more work than you think, although somewhere on this forum a guy put a cabover tilt cab on a ski dozer with a flat bed deck that turned out really nice, also saw one with a 60's dodge van body mounted, looked good also. To me that truck cab just looks funny up there.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

It is all work for sure.

Dropping the front sub frame, engine, tranny and rear  axle is really straight forward.

Unbolt the stuff and let it hit the dirt.

The interior fit and finish are all there and ready to work as well as they did from MA GENERAL.
Basically some wiring relocates under the hood and some brackets to mount the Van to the cat....

Dealing with interiors and that stuff can get very tedious....

I am a fabricator and machinist.....not into building interiors.....

Back in the 80's I bought a GMC coach....gutted it and built us a motor home.....

Turned out Fine....After that monster I said never again am I doing an interior


----------



## m1west

Snowy Rivers said:


> It is all work for sure.
> 
> Dropping the front sub frame, engine, tranny and rear  axle is really straight forward.
> 
> Unbolt the stuff and let it hit the dirt.
> 
> The interior fit and finish are all there and ready to work as well as they did from MA GENERAL.
> Basically some wiring relocates under the hood and some brackets to mount the Van to the cat....
> 
> Dealing with interiors and that stuff can get very tedious....
> 
> I am a fabricator and machinist.....not into building interiors.....
> 
> Back in the 80's I bought a GMC coach....gutted it and built us a motor home.....
> 
> Turned out Fine....After that monster I said never again am I doing an interior


If you leave the original floor in the body, how are you going to access the drive train for maintenance?


----------



## Snowy Rivers

AHHHH YESS

OK
After the sub frame with the engine, tranny and sundry other parts are removed ....and the rear axle

The plan is to fabricate a simple tube frame that will attach to the original body mount locations (Rubber or urethane biscuits) up front and a similar arrangement in the rear using the original spring attachment point...

Then add a roller at four points around the body on the new frame assemblies.

A pair of channels attached to the cat tub will allow the body to roll fore and aft .....

All electrical can be run through a long multi wire cable to allow the body to move.

Things like fuel line and such can be set up with quick disconnects.

A simple explanation I guess.

But the entire body will stay totally intact just as it came from The General.

Some added things to handle the steering (Remove the steering wheel and add a bracket to mount the air controls for the steering)

Aside from anything in the way of LED light bars, horns.....or whatever else comes along.....The van will remain stock.

The plan also includes an access port in the floor aft of the drivers seat to allow accessing the fuel tank sender and the pickup tube.

The tank access is easy.....I have done this on Vans I have owned....(Makes a real nasty job a snap)

Also an access in the rear floor over the OC-12 to allow adjusting the bands.....

The rear area in the van is wide open under the floor when the spare tire is gone.....

A simple cut the floor carefully and add on a flange to allow easy remove and replace.

If the entire engine trans needs to come out....Yank the body off.

For the day to day stuff like checking the oil, accessing other engine parts (Plugs or ????) Just roll the body back about 3-4 feet and gitterdone.

As far as the actual attachment points.....Brackets that accept bolts or    TO BE DETERMINED 

This is the basics.....Simple and leaves the van nearly stock with very little mods to the interior.....PLUG AND PLAY....ALMOST


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Strange projects and grand ideas are not new around here.

Here are a couple pics of a wild AZZ idea I had a few years ago...

A hummer kit.....
GAWD...WHAT A JOB

The kit came with the Steel tub, the fiberglass top, steel door frames and fiberglass skins. Fiberglass dash.
Tons left to the imagination...

The Grille guard is an OEM H1 hummer part.

Mount on a chevy Suburban 4x4 (Used a 1987 1/2 ton Burb 4x4 with a 6.2 diesel.
Instructions were crap...I just did my thing.

Got it finished and a guy with a lot of $$$$$ came along and had to have it......So it went away...


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Grabbed a couple cans of "Cowboy Chrome" paint this morning....Cleaned up the 4 Snowflake wheels that are all welded and gave them a shot of paint.

Spoke with a shop up in Portland earlier about filling the tires with Urethane tire fill....
We discussed what was needed...I grabbed the tubeless valve stems while were were in town....

Installed them with some soap after the paint dried.

Going to mount the tires and air them up...Once the cat is ready to go....then fill them up.

I ordered up a pair of 10 ply 145/r12 tires this morning too....These are very very close to the 5.30 x 12 bias ply....

We shall see how they work.

10 ply and when filled they should work fine......

I do not want to run any air filled tires...

All spots except the front two on my cat were tubed and air filled.

Wheels beat all to hell after a tires lose air....Tire guides just eat them suckers.

So today has to be a good solid 9.....10 is an unobtainium spot.....at least here....

I think I may mix in a pair of the bias ply tires and see how they hold up.
10 ply seems to be tough to find....8 ply is the norm.

I am not getting suckered into spending huge $$$$$$ on Falline or Alpine guide.

That is what was on this machine.....They were torn up pretty good too.....

A couple that were not torn up were just checked badly from years in the elements...Not worth the trouble to try and salvage....just too rough....
I can't get any tire guys that know anything about why the "Snowcat Special" is soooooooooo good.

My local tire guy has been in bizz here locally forever and his father before him.
The old man is in his late 80's and we have discussed this topic.....He just smiles and rubs his fingers ....Gesturing $$$$$$ in somebodies pocket....

Solid urethane would be sweet.....$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$......

This cat is gonna get whatever 10 ply tires I can scare up and then fill them....

Will see what shows up here in a few days......


----------



## m1west

Snowy Rivers said:


> Grabbed a couple cans of "Cowboy Chrome" paint this morning....Cleaned up the 4 Snowflake wheels that are all welded and gave them a shot of paint.
> 
> Spoke with a shop up in Portland earlier about filling the tires with Urethane tire fill....
> We discussed what was needed...I grabbed the tubeless valve stems while were were in town....
> 
> Installed them with some soap after the paint dried.
> 
> Going to mount the tires and air them up...Once the cat is ready to go....then fill them up.
> 
> I ordered up a pair of 10 ply 145/r12 tires this morning too....These are very very close to the 5.30 x 12 bias ply....
> 
> We shall see how they work.
> 
> 10 ply and when filled they should work fine......
> 
> I do not want to run any air filled tires...
> 
> All spots except the front two on my cat were tubed and air filled.
> 
> Wheels beat all to hell after a tires lose air....Tire guides just eat them suckers.
> 
> So today has to be a good solid 9.....10 is an unobtainium spot.....at least here....
> 
> I think I may mix in a pair of the bias ply tires and see how they hold up.
> 10 ply seems to be tough to find....8 ply is the norm.
> 
> I am not getting suckered into spending huge $$$$$$ on Falline or Alpine guide.
> 
> That is what was on this machine.....They were torn up pretty good too.....
> 
> A couple that were not torn up were just checked badly from years in the elements...Not worth the trouble to try and salvage....just too rough....
> I can't get any tire guys that know anything about why the "Snowcat Special" is soooooooooo good.
> 
> My local tire guy has been in bizz here locally forever and his father before him.
> The old man is in his late 80's and we have discussed this topic.....He just smiles and rubs his fingers ....Gesturing $$$$$$ in somebodies pocket....
> 
> Solid urethane would be sweet.....$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$......
> 
> This cat is gonna get whatever 10 ply tires I can scare up and then fill them....
> 
> Will see what shows up here in a few days......


Most folks run filled tires in the front to take abuse the air for the rest, Tire foam is heavy


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Yessss...Damned things weigh a bloody ton....probably 40 pounds or more...
I stuck my two filled fronts back on to get the spindles protected and to get the machine back on all of its feet.

Also keep the alloy wheels from being in the way and or going MIA.

The heavy machines (2100, 3700) I am told are much better off with filled tires all the way....

I really do not want to deal with tire/wheel issues ......

Almost all of my air filled wheel/tires had the wheels beat up due to tire guides chopping off the valve stems (At least it looks that way)
All the ones beat up and flat were missing the stems on the tubes....Hard to say what went first....the stem or the wheel getting beat up....

Sure looks as though the stems got clipped, tire goes flat....then wheel gets trashed......
The extra weight should not be an issue on this machine......

The fella I got the tracks from runs a 3700 and mentioned running all of them filled.

Even if the tire is a RAG the fill will get it home generally I am told.

Back when I ran the Spryte for the snowmobile club it had filled tire at all 10 spots...../YES...HEAVY


----------



## georgeofdesert

Snowy Rivers said:


> AHHHH YESS
> 
> OK
> After the sub frame with the engine, tranny and sundry other parts are removed ....and the rear axle
> 
> The plan is to fabricate a simple tube frame that will attach to the original body mount locations (Rubber or urethane biscuits) up front and a similar arrangement in the rear using the original spring attachment point...
> 
> Then add a roller at four points around the body on the new frame assemblies.
> 
> A pair of channels attached to the cat tub will allow the body to roll fore and aft .....
> 
> All electrical can be run through a long multi wire cable to allow the body to move.
> 
> Things like fuel line and such can be set up with quick disconnects.
> 
> A simple explanation I guess.
> 
> But the entire body will stay totally intact just as it came from The General.
> 
> Some added things to handle the steering (Remove the steering wheel and add a bracket to mount the air controls for the steering)
> 
> Aside from anything in the way of LED light bars, horns.....or whatever else comes along.....The van will remain stock.
> 
> The plan also includes an access port in the floor aft of the drivers seat to allow accessing the fuel tank sender and the pickup tube.
> 
> The tank access is easy.....I have done this on Vans I have owned....(Makes a real nasty job a snap)
> 
> Also an access in the rear floor over the OC-12 to allow adjusting the bands.....
> 
> The rear area in the van is wide open under the floor when the spare tire is gone.....
> 
> A simple cut the floor carefully and add on a flange to allow easy remove and replace.
> 
> If the entire engine trans needs to come out....Yank the body off.
> 
> For the day to day stuff like checking the oil, accessing other engine parts (Plugs or ????) Just roll the body back about 3-4 feet and gitterdone.
> 
> As far as the actual attachment points.....Brackets that accept bolts or    TO BE DETERMINED
> 
> This is the basics.....Simple and leaves the van nearly stock with very little mods to the interior.....PLUG AND PLAY....ALMOST


Sounds heavier  and complicated-er.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Actually I calculated that about 2000lb can be stripped off the van.
The add back for mounting hardware will be minimal

One of our past members had a full sized van on a 3700 chassis.   That thing was way cool

Not at all complicated....pretty simple to do as far as making it all work...


----------



## georgeofdesert

Seemed like alot to check the oil lol.  Depending on your floor plan do you need the stock floor pan at all?  Removable plywood or composite floorboards pinned in place?


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Actually....
The body on the van is a "Monocoque" or unit shell type construction.
The Astro has a subframe up front that contains the engine, trans, suspension and such.

The rear axle/springs anchor to the unibody .

Removing the floor would basically turn the body into a loose box.

Getting at such things as "Checking the oil" will be easy through a portal cut in the inner fender on the left side.
Tranny dipstick will be accessible similar on the RH side....Or the Dog house cover.

Serpentine belt up front will be an easy access through the front.

Modify the grille to allow the center section to come out quick.
Lift the short hood and the giant hole where the radiator and other cores had resided will be about the same size as the nose of the 2100.

The issue that was the main concern was getting at other components that might require service on the engine.

The access through the front grille area will be adequate for.....Serp belt, water pump, air pump (Converted AC unit) PS pump (Will be used to power the Hydrobooster for the outboard disc brakes on the rear axle)
Alternator.....

It all sounds like a daunting task....but when you get things in front of you and start measuring and getting a good look at stuff it becomes fairly easy.

The hardest part (Not really hard...just takes a bit of TLC ) will be dropping the sub frame and power pack out.

Just a case of stripping off all the parts that can be handled with the power pack still in the body
Radiator, fan, shroud, ect.....anything to lighten the beast up...

Disconnect the various wires and hoses..
Cut exhaust loose at the RH side near the front (Sawzall)

Block the sub frame on dunnage

Remove the front tires/wheels

Remove the bumper

Remove the 6 bolts that fasten the sub frame to the unibody assembly.

At this point the Skid steer can be used to  grab the front of the body and lift it up high enough to allow the power pack to be removed out the front....

Be far easier if I had a big shop 4 point lift......But us poor folks have to rely on other means of gitterdone.

I was involved with a friend a few years ago doing a V8 swap into an Astro.

He had a small shop and a couple air jacks/lifts.

Really pretty easy...
All I want is to get the extra parts off the body


Here is a piccy of an Astro with the sub frame dropped out.

Not sure I like the supports on the body.....but this shows the entire lashup


Once the sub frame is out the front of the body can sit on some timbers and the rear axle removed.

Get the new rear support mounted and a couple little "Goat wheels" can be temporarily mounted on the rear to allow the body to be pushed around by grabbing the front with the skid steer.

I am thinking that an attachment to anchor in the skid steer bucket will allow precise control when moving the body.

Position the body where the cat is now and jack it up.....Roll the cat under the body and go from there.

None of this will be any more difficult than it was tearing down the 2100.....removing the cab or setting the S10 cab.

Time and careful planning.....then let it rip.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Just thinking....

No disrespect to our many Tucker folks.....But I would much rather get that Astro body stripped off its running gear than rebuild a few sets of steel tracks and pontoons.....Been there back years ago.....Rusty and quite a job....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Spent some time this morning measuring the cab supports that are already on the cat for the S10 cab.....Got some preliminary measurements off of an Astro.

The current cab mounts can be used and with a slight modification and the addition of 2 more tubes across the tub  there should be adequate support for the Astro body to sit right up quite nicely.....

Only getting a tape measure on the real deal after it is stripped out will the actual mods needed be clear....But it looks good...

Still fooling with wheel bearings......Got a shout from the fella with the large bearing alloy wheels this morning....Be next month and we will get together.
Supposed to get some pics sent to me so I can see just how much machine work will be needed to repair the wheels....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Wrapped up ALL the hubs/bearings today.

Now these were some nasty messy GRUNGY ASSEMBLIES.....Every one was full of rust.
There were ZERO bearings that were usable in the cat.

All Hubs refurbished or replaced.....
All spindles in good shape...some discoloration from a lot of time on the clock and the water infiltration over the last (nearly) 50 years

The tires are crap...as are the wheels....the steel wheels that are not dented up from tire guide crashes have had the lug stud coined area way over tightened so many times the holes are the size of quarters.

But the hubs are all good....new tires coming soon.

As soon as the tires get here we will mount them on the new Silver Snowflake wheels and get them on the cat.....

The 3/8" thick steel plate centers will not bend and distort like the sheet metal garbage did....


Thinking about getting after finishing up the OC-12 NOW.

Looking at the original steering cylinders and have some plans on an adapter that will sort of look like the original cylinder....but actually adapt the Type 20 brake chambers.....

I need to get the adapters to set the arms on the steering shafts at the same place that they would normally be with the cylinders in the off position.

The adapter will be a "PASSTHROUGH" LINK .

I have it sketched up and the plan looks good......

I still need to get the axle bearings on the axles and press on the retainers.

I have the seals, gaskets and such here on the shelf......

Back to the steering cylinders.
The top lid on the OC-12 is going to need a bit of modification to allow the Type 20 chambers to bolt on.

All stresses must stay in the top cover......The original cylinders were fed 400 PSI oil pressure....This translates to about 1500 + pounds of pressure on the actuator rod.....

The type 20 chamber (20 sq inches) requires 75 PSI air pressure to do the same job as the 400 psi oil on the 2-1/4" stock cylinder...

More great fun.......

At any rate....need to get the big gear box all finished up and then get it filled with oil before stuffing it back into the cat...

Just waiting for an Astro or Safari to come home..... 

Grabbed up a grouser and got it situated on the number two tire....evened it up to get a good view of the width of the cat..... also wanted to see what the proximity of the bottom the belting and the backing plates will be in relation to the top of the rub rail on the inner suspension.....LOOKS GREAT.....ABOUT 5 INCHES clearance with the road wheels all the way down.....

IS THIS ALL GOING TO WORK????...I SURE HOPE SO ......
Starting to get itchy fingers to get at stuffing the 406 SBC together.....
Really doubt that 406 inches is necessary.....but it will be BADAZZ......For sure...   VORTEC heads to top it off..
Got a fresh Quadrajet Carb TO GO UP TOP....SO THE LITTLE MOUSE CAN ROAR......

Fun FUN FUN.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Well now.
We had a really good rain over the weekend....2 inches total Friday to Sunday

The new wheels were laying outside on the skid where I painted them.
Went to pack them inside this morning and half the paint was WASHED OFF.....This is rust prevention type paint.

Wheels were cleaned up well to remove all oils and such.

I grabbed a rag and some surface cleaner (PREP SOL) and that silver paint just runs off.....

Cleaned the 4 wheels up and repainted with a solid light gray.

The silver was rubbing off even after a week in the sun.....Bad choice..

I may need to sand blast the wheels to get the powder coat off.....at least on the outside face that shows.

The FEDEX truck showed up and brought me my two new tires....

Great looking 10 ply tires.

Gonna head into town to see if the guys at cheeeeezoid used tire place will mount them....At least get one mounted and see wassssup.

I will post a piccy or two later.

Trying to find 12" 10 ply tires is a chore......at least at a price that is affordable....

After things are operational they can get foamed......for now ...air will do


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## Snowy Rivers

Got one of the tires mounted....Shopped around a bit....Local shop will pop these little beasties on the wheels for $10 each.
Far easier than the tire spoons and a bunch of BLUE AIR

The new assemblies are a touch wider...but the tire guides fit with room to spare.
The alignment on the new tire/wheel is pretty well spot on.

In order to make the 3/8" plate wheel centers fit in the rims with enough material to weld on both inside and out I had to CHEAT a tiny bit...I fudged the offset about 1/4"
After getting the new tire/wheel on I checked things with a straight edge against the old originals and things are plenty good enough for the crowd I hang with....

The new wheels are 4" wide....The offset was adjusted to account for this....Accept the fudge factor.....
The 145/12 Radials are very close size wise....both in the section and the diameter.

Life will be good....

So far the tariff on getting these filled is $70 per tire....I am still shopping.

But the FRONTS are going to get filled...Come hell or high water....
Still working on the three damaged alloy large bearing wheels..
The tires are nearly new....lost a bearing and boogered up the wheels (Somebody did not service their bearings as they should have)

If I can repair one for the other fella....I get two for my troubles.

Stuff the alloys on the front....Life be good....


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## Snowy Rivers

Grabbed the other new tire and had it mounted while we were in town...

Got it bolted on the cat.,...

Decided to grab the 3 different types of tire guides used on the 2100.....at least these are the ones I know of.

I call them GEN1..GEN2 AND GEN3

The GEN 1 is the early type used on the 2100 and is the weakest design.
The outside upright spans less of the base and is prone to breaking the weld....
Gen2 is similar to the Gen1 except the outer part of the upright is wider and there is more contact with the base....The formed parts of the upright nearly touch in the inner part of the guide.

These guides also sit looser on the tires too compared to the GEN 1 ...Which have very little clearance on the radial tires.

The Gen2 guides have about 3/8" clearance on the tire on each side.

The Gen3 guides are the beefiest of the bunch with pretty much a total redesign....
The base is thicker material, deeper draw on the channel and the guide portions are welded parallel to the sides of the base.
A much better design....These were used on the 3700 and the 4200 machines...(Can retrofit to the 2100 cats)

The Gen3 guides are much heavier and will take a beating.....

I have about 20 of the Gen3 guides and a pretty good quantity of the Gen1 and Gen2 types..
It looks like the track I pulled apart recently had quite a few Gen2 guides....plus what I had that came with the cat originally and a few from a trade deal should net enough Gen2 guides to do one track.

The second track we recently acquired seems to have Gen2 guides.

Hopefully the tire guide issues will not require any more effort to complete the tracks.

The LH side now has a new tire and wheel on axle 3
After seeing these new tires I ordered up another pair.....

Still need to build at least 2 more wheels.....

Won't really know until we get eyes on the alloys that have been offered.

Some pics


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## Snowy Rivers

Between dodging rain showers and sun breaks I managed to get another one of the custom wheels built.

Got a bit of time that the wind was not blowing to weld the assembly up

I have one more rim that is ready to go...Just need to grab a snowflake blank... set up the fixtures in the mill and drill and countersink the lug stud holes....then trim the outer diameter to size and weld it in..

Sort of a PITA...BUTTTTTT..Given the fact that the 12" wheels with 5 on 5.5 bolt pattern are non existent any more....not too bad.


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## Snowy Rivers

Got to work this morning and decided to finish the last two wheels I had knocked the centers out of.
As I was getting ready to go at it I decided to do a complete start to finish write up on the making of these wheels
WARNING....WTMI.....  
We will start off with getting the holding fixture on the mill
Then the water cut "Snowflake" blank comes out...
Then the master jig gets in the act....The new blank goes on the fixture first (The center pilots fit the jig snug)
The master goes on top of the blank and the pairs are evened up and the ties down bar is tightened up.
The 17/32" transfer punch is inserted into the chuck on the mill and the table adjusted to get the punch to just slip into the marked hole in the fixture (Arrow) 
Table is locked to prevent any movement.
The 17/32 drill is dropped in the hole and the center is marked...
Then the pilot hole is drilled.
The 17/32" drill is put back into the chuck and the hole drilled.
Now the transfer punch (Used because it fits the hole snug) is placed through both plates.
The plates are marked to keep them oriented through the process.
The tie down plate is loosened and the pair of plates are rotated to allow indexing the next hole.
NEXT POST


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## Thefatsquatch

Those Wheels look AWESOME! Especially with the tires mounted!  It looks like it is all coming together.


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## Snowy Rivers

Process repeated until the new plate is finished. The punch stays in the original hole all the way so the holes DO NOT get out of sinc...
The finished plate is removed, a counter sink (82 degree std) is lightly touched to the holes to debur them.
Plate fit to the hub to check fitment.....
Now it's time to countersink the holes using a 60 degree countersink (Standard automotive lug nuts are 60 degree....regular Allen head bolts are 82 degree)
The new plate is placed on the bottom of the fixture and then the master is set on to...The assembly is aligned with the punch in the hole.
The countersink is placed in the chuck and lowered into the master jig and the stop on the spindle is set
The next step is to check the final fitment on thre hub with all 5 lug nuts.....
The snowflake now heads to the lathe to machine the OD so the wheel will just tap on...
Now the finished snowflake gets fastened to to positioning jig and then slipped in from the back of the wheel..
Spray the bare metal with the anti spatter.
Tack weld the inner sides in  CROSS PATTERN...AND HOPEFULLY KEEP THINGS TRUE.,

NEXT POST


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## Snowy Rivers

Now we tack the front sides in a cross pattern
Try it on the cat to see if it runs true.....IT DOES
Weld this bad boy up using a cross pattern...front and rear
Retry on the hub with all 5 lug nuts tightened.
SWEEEEEET
It still runs true

Clean up with the wire wheel on the die grinder.

Nest it gets scuffed well with Scotch bright to prepare the original powder coat to accept paint...

Ready to go...


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## Snowy Rivers

Squatch.

Thank you.
Yes...the plan is getting there.
More tires coming
I am going to run a few different sets of the 10 ply radials (Brands) and see wasssssup.
This wheel thing has been fun.....But what a hassle....But still far cheaper than the alloy wheel hub combos.
The 3/8" plate centers are not going to bend or warp......The sheet metal stockers were just a mess from over tightening....


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## Snowy Rivers

Whats gonna really tickle me silly is when  DECENT Astro/Safari finds it's way home...
Still lots of stuff to do.
As soon as the weather closes in for the winter it will be time to get at the 406 Small block Chevy...
I want to get the engine completed and mounted in a test stand and run for an hour or so to break in the cam and check for any oil leaks or other issues.....
Then the tranny needs to come out of the cat and hit the bench.
I dug out my auto tranny tools.....all ready to go......
My plan is to freshen up the TH350 and set it up as a SELECT shift full manual control.....NO AUTO SHIFT AT ALL...
Going with a Winters sidewinder shifter...
Likely go with a "Reverse pattern ROCK GATE"   ....At least that's on the table at present....
Being able to shift and hold each gear will keep the tranny from being a busy box and shifting right up fast.....
Hold third gear and get the boot into throttle and  let the little mouse roar......
And so it goes.....


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## Snowy Rivers

Another Change order may well be in the works.
The idea of going back to the Astro van body....although very much on the table, the van creates a few unpleasant caveats.
Access to the engine is a big concern and creates issues in handling the body......

The S10 cab is already situated on the 2100 Chassis and the work done to get things ready to move forward.

Would be a shame to waste the time and $$$ already spent.

Now.....an idea that was suggested early on in this thread by others.
Use the back half of the Astro to provide the passenger compartment.
A wrecked Astro should be easy to scare up.

Cut the body at the forward edge of the "B" PILLAR (Rear edge of the front doors)  (Sawzall job) 
Scrap the entire front end of the body.

This would allow the easy access to the engine with a forward tilting hood.....

The rear portion of the Astro body is not all that heavy.
Getting rid of the sub frame, the entire driver compartment and leaving the hollow box.

Easy task to close in the cut off portion.....Add a slider widow and good to go.

The rear portion of the Astro will provide 2 folding bench seats, the side sliding door and the rear Dutch doors/hatch

The aft section will not be all that heavy.

Also the fuel tank is under the floor on the drivers side and can be used as is (Pretty much...just change to a pickup tube only instead of a high pressure pump)

At this time...this looks like it may be a great plan.....Getting an Astro with severe front damage should be a cheap proposition.....


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## Snowy Rivers

WELL
All the wonderful ideas will not play out.
With the S10 cab in the middle of the Cat....THERE IS SIMPLY NOT ENOUGH FRAME to set  even the rear 2/3 of an Astro body on..

If the cab was forward over the engine...it would be perfect.

Another grand idea that will not work.
Since the S10 cab is fitted...Seems like the best plan is to move forward with the idea of using the pickup box and a canopy.....

Ahhhh well...As they say...The best laid plans of mice and men...often go astray....


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## m1west

I still think that you could easily build a cab that would fit it from square tube and then skin it. I believe it could be done with about 80 hours of labor, painted, glass in and ready to mount. You could do it in the shop over the winter and put it on in the spring. It could either tilt or just install removable floor panels for access to everything. If designed right, it would look like it came that way.


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## Snowy Rivers

M1
I agree..."In the shop" My shop is tiny and with the machine tools, shelves and such there is little room to do much.
Buuuuuuuuuttttttttttttt...

We went to the bone yard this morning and I got a tape measure on both generations of S10 Blazers and GMC Jimmy and the the Olds Bravada...2 & 4 door
These will bolt right onto the new mount  I built for the S10 CAB....I will just need to add one maybe two more cross tubes and attach the Blazer.
My main attraction is "These are PLUG AND PLAY" Everything is there.
All the creature comforts.
Power windows (Maybe) all the instruments in the dash. 
Seating for at least 4
A spot in the back to toss the extra chit.
Rear flip up hatch and fold open rear gate.
Simply sit it on top of the cat and plug in the wires.....
Everything is there and ready to go......

A small fab job to do the ant eater hood....Done deal.
The engine will have gobs of room to get to it.
These are light enough that I can lift them with the skid steer and lower right onto the cat.


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## J5 Bombardier

I built a cab for one of my Muskeg's using Freightliner doors, it's got all the creature comforts, probably better than the originals and it does blend with the rest of the vehicle .The downside is the weight and the crazy amount of time and steel put into it, and that's when steel was cheap .
                                                                            J5 Bombardier


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## Snowy Rivers

Yesssss
Steel costs have gone off in the Ozones
Seemed like whenever I headed to the steel yard to get a few pieces to finish up the front axle project ....it was $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

I have built
Industrial type machinery "Operator cabs" back years ago.....Not a hard job at all,
Just have to have enough floor space to work and be able to handle the beast during the process.

I do not have anything indoors that can handle it...

Re-purposing a ready made cab/body can be done for very little $$$$$$$$
I did a cost/time analysis (Sort of) back at the start and I think M1 is pretty close on the time to build a cab.

Sadly I don't hunker down and thrash on things any more.....Age and health have taken a toll that really slows me down.

Another item here is.....I have already put a fair amount of time into mounting the S10 cab.....So switching (Mid course correction) to the S10 Blazer body will require little make the change..
The front body mounts will sit exactly where we have them now....
Just need to move (And slightly modify) the rear cab support tube ($$$$ already spent...)

Another perk.....I cut the wires that fed the rear of the truck (Lights and other stuff) as they were in the frame.
That all has to be put back or replaced.
The Blazer body is intact and ready to go...
All seating is in and ready to go.

Sort out the under hood wires for the needed functions and splice in added length to reach down into the cat belly..

All in and ready to go for the most part.....
Front lighting wiring....same story....all in and ready to splice to the needed lights on the front droop snout hood

Other than a little bit of mods to the steering wheel to fasten the air controls....Plus add the air lines.....Everything in the cab is in there and ready for prime time....
As far as cost for a used S10 Blazer goes ????

I am looking for a unit with a bad engine, bad tranny, bad rear axle .....Most folks this day and age are not going to take a 20-30 year old rig and dump thousands of $$$$$$$$ into an engine/tranny or ?????

I expect to scare one up cheap $$
Then remove the body and sell the rolling chassis for as much or more than I paid for the entire unit.....

The S10 pickup cost me $300
I have the cab and box
Sold the rolling chassis for $450

Yes there are those of us who salivate over scrap iron goodies......

The Average muggle will not fool with a 30 year old car....

I will admit...I should have done the S10 Blazer the first go round.....Oh well....The cab and box will go to a new home....$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
It's not the destination....It's the journey ..... 
Met a lot of very interesting people along the way..


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## Snowy Rivers

Back when I hatched the idea of using the S10 CAB....I scored this book on ebay cheap...

Factory GM electrical manual for the entire S series......2 door..4 door....Pickup, Blazer the whole shebang...

This makes any Re-purposing wiring  changes a snap.

All the wire colors, locations of relays, fuse, junctions, grounds....all of it.....


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## Snowy Rivers

Yesterday was a "Finish stuff up day" before it rains.

Went out to get some stuff and by a strange twist took a different road....spotted an S10 Blazer 2 door sitting along side a garage with grass growing up around it and a Rock stuck behind a rear wheel....

Stopped and nobody home...Left a note.

Guy called and left me a call back number.....We shall see...He seems interested in parting with the rig
License tags been expired since 1999.....
Rig likely has major mechanical issues to have been parked that long.....
I did not get too snoopy as nobody was home....took a quick peek at both sides and the interior.
Gotta be an 80's rig

I will call the guy this morning at a decent hour....See wasssup.

Finished up getting the last 2 fabricated wheels painted yesterday while it was dry......

Not much more to tell....Let ya know what shakes on the little Rig.

I am excited about the little 2 door....but at present....that's about it..,

Best part is that it's 3 miles from my house......The old Burb and a string should drag it home....Or stuff it on my trailer.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Spoke with the owners of the S10
They are quite willing to let the little Blazer go away.....

We are dealing with this....
Will know more later today......


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## Snowy Rivers

Looks like we have a done deal on the blazer cab....
Spent some time yesterday afternoon going over the little Blazer carcass.
Not bad.
20 years of sitting has not been kind....But a very good find that should make a sweet cab for the cat....

We need to get the tires back on the wheels and holding air so we can get the "Wretched little truck" on the trailer and 3 miles home.

Raining cats and dogs the past couple days.
L'll Blue gonna look sweet atop the 2100


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Started making my shopping list for bits and pieces to restore the cab interior...

Floor covering.....Has blue carpet now....May replace it....possibly get the vinyl (Rubber) parts that replace the entire carpet set.
Floor sound pad (The old stuff is suffering from Mold Ala Carte.....)
Headliner has the all too common SAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGS from the foam disintegrating and letting go.
Driver seat looks like a bomb crater.....

But mostly a good stripping out and a Royal Douching with stuff like Mr Clean or Pine Sol...should make the little girl spiffy.
Door panels as well as the other interior parts are good....just dirty.

Dash looks great.....
We will keep the steering wheel (Has tilt too) and mount the air controls for the steering similar to how I have it in the pickup cab...
A quick look at the wheel....pretty well looks like the air control setup will just bolt onto a small adapter bolted to the wheel where the puller bolts thread in....
Dash is nearly identical in the Blazer....

The Blazer column being complete and functional will allow the use of the original ignition switch and everything else...
A very quick bit of work to get the air valve setup mounted.

Run the nylon air lines down next to the hump..under the seat and then down the left side of the interior at the floor....
May be able to get those in after removing the interior panels to clean the beast and replace the carpet......

Since the Blazer is also a stick shift rig the column does not have any provisions to handle the Tubo 350 Trans.

Will stick with the same Winters Sidewinder shifter....mount it on a little platform on the hump to get it up to a handy spot.

The cab being identical as far as the cowl area goes....The current location for the battery tray on the RH side about under the passengers feet will stay as it is....The spot was a perfect place....out of the way, but still accessible.
The tray was the LH tray from a Square body Suburban (New and had been hanging on a nail in the shop for years)
A small bit of mods...good to go.
This tray will handle a large Optima or other Heavy duty battery.
Other than a switch panel to handle the overhead lights and such.....the interior needs little more.

Being a non AC equipped rig the HVAC system is all manual push pull lever type.....no vacuum required.
The non AC also gets rid of the large evaporator cabinet in the engine bay too .....Quite handy to be shed of that thing.
If we don't find any issues with the heater core.....the dash should need nothing more.

Really nice to get a dash that has not been molested.....All the parts are as the came from MA General.
Wiring being a big part.

Once factory wiring has been thrashed.....ya never really know what has been damaged, shorted or otherwise FUBAR'D

Plan is and has been to tie into the factory light wires that feed all the forward lamps.....Reroute those to the overhead LED light bar/s and mount the signals up high too.
Stock stuff can stay as in out back.....Maybe some LED bulbs later....


The plan for the fuel tanks remains the same....A tank fitted into each rear wheel house.....Tanks are readily available with gauge senders that will work with the GM dash gauge.

The speedometer in the dash could possibly be utilized.....BUT WHY.....10 TO 15 MPH ...Waste to time to re calibrate that thing.
It's moving....that's all we need to know.... Look out the window....Yup it's moving..  

The sound system is a genuine factory Cassette player......
Dash not chopped up.

Later a much more up to date sound system can be added.
Some place within reach of the driver....A top notch CB radio would be cool.....Maybe a 10 meter ham with the 11 meter CB band enabled....

I saw a Blazer yesterday that had the rear swing away spare tire carrier...One of those would be cool....Modify it to carry a couple of the Cat wheels/tires.....

With the back end being up quite high......Thinking about a Veranda around the back so the rear gate and hatch could be accessed easily.
Bring the veranda around so one could walk down the tracks on either side and step up onto the walkway.

Be cool....We shall see.


----------



## Thefatsquatch

Snowy Rivers said:


> Now that we have been told we are going too slow.
> 
> I got the RH track tensioner out....and by the look of things it has not been out in a loooooooooong time.
> 
> Cylinder bore is shot......
> It is the same style as the RH one....A GOOD THING
> 
> Made a couple phone calls and founds all the materials needed.
> A chunk of new DOM cylinder tube.....and the proper seals and back up rings.....
> Tomorrow we'll get the cylinder tube cut and machined to length....weld the old end cap into the new tube.
> 
> The piston/rod is usable....but the cylinder was about like 20 miles of death valley fire trail.
> 
> The LH cylinder having been full of grease is all serviceable.....
> The new seal parts look great.......
> 
> HERE ARE THE PART NUMBERS FOR THESE BAD BOYS
> Used in several of the Thiokol...LMC...DMC TRACK TENSION CYLINDERS
> THE V PACKING IS 840601625/N
> THE BACKING RING 870601625SD/T
> These are available readily online
> 
> The backing ring is a solid white polymer
> Simply cut it on a 45 or 60 degree angle to allow it to be installed.
> The original backer was cut on an angle.


Ok so the next time I see that stub axle and torsion arm, they are no longer welded to the torsion bar. Do you have to cut them out from both sides or something? How did you get it off there?! My torsion bar is bent inside the tube, but I would rather use original one, because the axle studs seem straight. It's either that or buy new 5200 pound torsion axles and a new axle tube.


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## Snowy Rivers

Getting the torsion bar out is a real Beotch......
I just cut the tube off just inside of the spindle casting so I could save the casting and the spindle...

The original axles are 3500# 
At this juncture....you may be better off to look at a pair of the 3500# half axles and then modify the tube end (If the tube is straight)

What has likely happened is that the plastic bushing that fits in the inner edge of the casting (Held in with a spiral snap ring) has worn out...then the rubber cords that are the support have gone away....then the axle heads rearward due to the stress of the track pulling on it.
The piccy shows how the torsion rod has moved back
Piccy shows the plastic split bushing that fits in the spindle casting.

All the stress from the track is the big reason I went with the heavy long bushing set up and the total re-design on my front end.
With your narrower frame, the design I chose will not work....No room to get all the parts in.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

After cutting the spindle arm....I machined the weld off the outside until I could see the crack....then into the press and pushed the stub out.....One came easily with my 20 tone press...The other took a 50 ton to do it.

Then I jigged the casting up using a hub and bearings to get the spindle square with the mill table and did a light cut on the inner edge of the casting to give a place to register the thing.

Set up the boring head off the square hole and bored it to allow a 2" shaft to press in with a 50 ton press...then welded it.


----------



## Thefatsquatch

All VERY helpful information! And the pictures help too. The front ones are shorter that the rest, so I assumed they were 52, while the rest are 36. The only short ones I can find are heavier. 3500 pound ones are way easier to find, but seem to be too long.


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## Snowy Rivers

The length was used to regulate the capacity...The longer arm makes the weight carrying capacity less....(More leverage)
Depending on the mfg. and how they build the axle varies a lot.


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## olympicorange

hey snowy,..   you are sure one busy cat ,..  keep it up,...


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## Snowy Rivers

Thanks....
Just wish my health could keep up with my ambitions .....
The Kidney cancer back in 2012 and the 5-6 strokes that came with that mess really kicked my Azz.
Between the severe fatigue that comes with strokes and the after effects of the drugs....OMG

But I can't leave yet....Got a snow cat to finish.....


I am excited a lot with the S10 BLAZER cabin.
That little beast will give us 5 place seating and a little cubby hole behind the back seat for junk
It has bucket seats up front and the bench in the second row.

With the front cab mounts in the same place as the current pickup cab is located....the rear of the Blazer comes right to the back of the 2100 Frame.....

I am thinking about a Veranda around the back.......

Too soon to firm that idea up much.....but it is on the table.

Another set of tires showed up....

I have an old SNOW CAT SPECIAL TIRE...Gonna cut that sucker up and see how many actual plies are in the tread face and the side walls....
The new tires are 10 ply rated
Face has polyester and steel
The side wall is polyester and nylon

The cat tire does not say whats in it......

Gonna do an autopsy on that corpse......


----------



## Snowy Rivers

CHANGE ORDER..
Got a call this morning.....Fella has a Dead 1998 S10 BLAZER 4 DOOR
Bad FUBAR'D ENGINE...
Been stored in the garage for a few years.....NO MOLD ALA CARTE.....

Complete in every way.....
I can't pass this up for the cats "NEW CABIN"

Got a couple more tires the other day....mounted up yesterday.
Bolted one on the RH side and then went to bolt the left one on.....Wheel. would not go on the studs... ????????????????

Studs were bent from over tightening the nuts in the old screwed up wheels.....
5 new studs and life is good

Will get pics up as soon as I can.


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## vintagebike

Four doors good.


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## Snowy Rivers

Yessssssssssssssssssssssss....4 doors is a very good thing.
Actually they call it a 5 door....Rear gate and hatch

The only down side.....This sucker is WHITE
Gonna have to do some neon green flames or ?????? to make it so ya can see it......

I was a bit hesitant when the guy first called and the price was kicked around.
But some quick calcs and it became really clear that this was a good jump.
Not having to deal with the moldy carpet, headliner and other nasty messes.....

I can just concentrate on getting the body off the frame and onto the cat....
Going to have to modify the lifting rig to get hold of the bigger body.....Should be easy go....
Figure out where the balance point is and  go from there.

Right ahead of the front doors where the fenders bolt on is where I anchored the lifting points for the pickup cab.....Probably work for the Blazer cabin too.

The rear point may be a tad more interesting.

Possibly a tube through the rear wheelhouse area and fasten things up to the body and get a loop on each side to hook to.
Gonna take some studying and measuring.....

We are heading off to check out the little rig here in a few hours......I am thinking that this rig should have power windows and door locks
Definitely gonna be a big step up as far as creature comforts goes.......

Sorting out all the electrical stuff will be a bit more interesting than on the old GEN 1 pickup cab.

The extra goodies like the ABS and other unused items will just be abandoned in place......

Basically all we need to run the engine is the hot wire to feed the HEI distributor.....Exterior lights and the HVAC STUFF.

All the OBD2 SENSORS (Lack of) will drive the ECM NUTS......Tough...yank out the SES lamp and the ABS lamp and call it a day.

OMG
This rig could have power seats too....Wooo hooo.....

Just got some pix from the fella with the Blazer
Actually I think he sent them last night.....

OMG
LOOKS TERRIFIC

Cat looking much better with all its feet back on the dirt.
The little 4 door body gonna look sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet.
Depending on the weather .....Getting the Blazer apart will take a bit of time....but well worth the effort.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Deal made on the little white truck.
Real sweet cab for the kitty.
Well appointed too.
The interior needs nothing more than a very quick vacuum to be ready for prime time....

Power everything...Well almost...Seats are manual....which I like.
Windows, locks and mirrors are power
We need a set of those cool Weather tech floor mats to keep the nice blue carpet from getting skunked up.
Truck has been sitting in this garage since 2009..... Immaculate in and out.....

Need to sort out getting the tach and other gauges working with the 406 engine and old school HEI.

Should be a simple trick.....

Gonna get the rig tomorrow morning......

This is gonna be a really sweet cab for the FrankenCat

Sorting out the wiring that we don't need and want gone will take a bit of burning the "Midnight oil" but I am not worried much.

The computer will bitch....tough....

I briefly considered using the Vortec injection...Butttttttttttttttttttttttttt...I want a simple power plant with old school reliability....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Well now.
Went to get the Blazer......
Stinking beast would not budge.

Rear brakes are stuck tighter than a Bulls azz in fly time.
Caliper pistons have skunked up and as soon as ya tough the brakes they lock up again
Both need to be replaced.....We must have brakes to move it out of the garage and his driveway to the street is steep.
So we dissolved the deal and came home.

Arrrrrrgh.


----------



## PJL

Bummer, that would have looked very nice.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

The deal may not be out of the question.....
Had a talk with the owner last night and offered to change out the  calipers.
I found a pair of calipers for $80
Likely not premium quality.....But they will get the thing out of his garage and down the hill onto my trailer.

He is very receptive...
He also decided to pull the calipers off ...thinking that he could clean them up and get them freed up....

That vehicle model has had issues with that style of caliper seazing up......
Sitting since 2009 has likely allowed the pistons to corrode badly.

So at present I am somewhat optimistic that we may move ahead.

Yesterday was not a good day....not even.....

I did not want to leave with the guy holding the $$$$ and the rig and not really having a plan.
Guy seems like a straight up fella.....but I like to be careful......

Thankfully it is only about 30 miles to get there.
If we do move ahead and go with replacing the calipers.... I want to go prepared with all the tools needed......
Everything else seems fine.....so....A quicky bolt on of the fresh calipers ...bleed out the air.....good to go..

Should have info in a day or so......
Until then....we sit tight.....

If time had been on our side we could have done this yesterday.....but..not the case....and the closest parts house only had premium calipers with pads. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Way more $$ than I was willing to cough up.....
Just needs to move the rig less than 100 feet down the drive...onto the street and then square it up with my trailer....

Not a deal where the new parts are going to have any long term benefit....


----------



## m1west

Snowy Rivers said:


> The deal may not be out of the question.....
> Had a talk with the owner last night and offered to change out the  calipers.
> I found a pair of calipers for $80
> Likely not premium quality.....But they will get the thing out of his garage and down the hill onto my trailer.
> 
> He is very receptive...
> He also decided to pull the calipers off ...thinking that he could clean them up and get them freed up....
> 
> That vehicle model has had issues with that style of caliper seazing up......
> Sitting since 2009 has likely allowed the pistons to corrode badly.
> 
> So at present I am somewhat optimistic that we may move ahead.
> 
> Yesterday was not a good day....not even.....
> 
> I did not want to leave with the guy holding the $$$$ and the rig and not really having a plan.
> Guy seems like a straight up fella.....but I like to be careful......
> 
> Thankfully it is only about 30 miles to get there.
> If we do move ahead and go with replacing the calipers.... I want to go prepared with all the tools needed......
> Everything else seems fine.....so....A quicky bolt on of the fresh calipers ...bleed out the air.....good to go..
> 
> Should have info in a day or so......
> Until then....we sit tight.....
> 
> If time had been on our side we could have done this yesterday.....but..not the case....and the closest parts house only had premium calipers with pads. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
> 
> Way more $$ than I was willing to cough up.....
> Just needs to move the rig less than 100 feet down the drive...onto the street and then square it up with my trailer....
> 
> Not a deal where the new parts are going to have any long term benefit....


Does the emergency brake work? I once drove from SF to LA with and emergency brake because parts were not available. You should be able to get it down the driveway.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

The E brake was stuck on too.....We were able to get that loose...As soon as ya stomped the pedal it would stick again.
We were not getting any help on this one....For sure

I just do not want to take any chances with safety....The drive is steep...Cars parked on the street and slow careful maneuvering is needed.

I am somewhat confident that this deal may still come together......
Just need to let the guy fool around for a day of two and he said he would call me....

AS I mentioned....If this was on flat ground ...we could have shoved it around, stuffed a block under the wheel to hold it....then winch it on the trailer (Come Along)

But that nasty driveway angle just makes it a no go without brakes.....

I have not given up as yet...but the ball is in the owners court for the next couple days.

We shall see.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Just got a text from the guy with the S10 BLAZER

He decided to go buy the calipers and get things done.....
We are shooting for a Weds. pickup.


----------



## western auto

throw that shit in park and drag it down the hill hahahaha


----------



## Snowy Rivers

I THOUGHT ABOUT THAT NUMBER.

Hard to look cool in a nice neighborhood when ya do stuff like that...
I think the old fella would have been pissed if I pulled that stunt and left the black marks down the aggregate drive.

The way it's going will be fine.....Just a tad more traveling..
BUT WORTH IT.
This little rig is so clean....
Soft cushy seats.....nice carpet.
Woooo hoooo


----------



## western auto

if its just the rears  vice grip the line , open the bleeder and smack them free and roll on front brakes/ either way looks like you got it sorted, should make for a much better and comfortable finished product


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Out here in the sticks....almost anything goes.....Get the tractor and a chain...or the skid steer....

City scapes require a tad more finesses ya know 

I do not want to booger up the rolling chassis if it can be helped.

The nice clean 4x4 frame with the running gear will bring good $$$$$.....

Yes indeed.
The comfort is gonna be into the 10 scale......I remember the old Spryte I ran....Plastic seats....zero creature comforts.....and noisy.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Well now

I was supposed to hear yesterday about the 98 blazer....Nothing.

Thinking we are going to return to the 85 that's down the road 3 miles.    Far less hassle and sooooooo close to home.


I did not burn that bridge....so it's just a text message away and we can get going on that.

Seems the ignition keys are MIA.....Owner found the title.....

Going to have to pop the steering wheel off and pull the ignition lock cylinder out.....New one is $18 at autozone.
Anyway.
Nothing more at present....
When we start this phase I will get pics and info.......


----------



## m1west

Snowy Rivers said:


> Well now
> 
> I was supposed to hear yesterday about the 98 blazer....Nothing.
> 
> Thinking we are going to return to the 85 that's down the road 3 miles.    Far less hassle and sooooooo close to home.
> 
> 
> I did not burn that bridge....so it's just a text message away and we can get going on that.
> 
> Seems the ignition keys are MIA.....Owner found the title.....
> 
> Going to have to pop the steering wheel off and pull the ignition lock cylinder out.....New one is $18 at autozone.
> Anyway.
> Nothing more at present....
> When we start this phase I will get pics and info.......


Got free towing with your auto insurance, if not add it on and use it.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

I checked that out...
Vehicle MUST be registered to me...have current license plates .....The ins folks figured this game out.

I have towing, and have had for years.
Ah well.

Not sure wassssup with the owner..
I text him yesterday and asked If he would like me to come over and help with getting the brake calipers on and bled out.

He never responded.

Ah well.

Time to move on....


----------



## m1west

Snowy Rivers said:


> I checked that out...
> Vehicle MUST be registered to me...have current license plates .....The ins folks figured this game out.
> 
> I have towing, and have had for years.
> Ah well.
> 
> Not sure wassssup with the owner..
> I text him yesterday and asked If he would like me to come over and help with getting the brake calipers on and bled out.
> 
> He never responded.
> 
> Ah well.
> 
> Time to move on....


150' of 1"x1"x1/8" sq tube- $200.00.  or so  
3- 4'x 8' sheets of 20 ga. aluminum $200.00 or so
1- 4'x 8' sheet of lexan for the windows- $ 200.00 or so
Hinges and handles $200.00 or so.
paint $ 100.00 or so
expendables/ hardware $ 150.00 or so
There you have it for around $1000.00 - $1400.00 guesstimate, you could have already built a cab that matches the machine with the time you have already spent looking for donor vehicles. I know I am harping but believe its your best option.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

YEAH......I KNOW.

Just a gluten for punishment....

Well....We shall see.
I have a couple more possibilities......
If they fall on their butt.....We may well got the fab route.

I just did not want to have to build the cab....

I have time to snoop.....Without a place to build anything indoors.....makes it a summer time thing only....


----------



## m1west

Snowy Rivers said:


> YEAH......I KNOW.
> 
> Just a gluten for punishment....
> 
> Well....We shall see.
> I have a couple more possibilities......
> If they fall on their butt.....We may well got the fab route.
> 
> I just did not want to have to build the cab....
> 
> I have time to snoop.....Without a place to build anything indoors.....makes it a summer time thing only....


The pictures I saw from your shop, a little re arranging and it looks doable over the winter. It would weigh practically nothing until you put the lexan in. Make removable floor plates from some 16 ga. aluminum and you would be styling with something that looks factory. Then over time insulate it etc. I would do a cab over design. good visibility and it leaves room for a rear deck to haul things.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Actually my shop is far smaller than it looks
the rollup door is a 6 footer.
The lathe and mill take up all of the space on the one end.

Welding cant be done inside.
The bulk of the space downstairs is a 1000 sq ft apartment that was my folks and now we rent it out.
Welding would likely set the place on fire.....NOT GOOD

Ahhh yess.

My kingdom for a nice shop.
24' x 36' would be sweet   with a 12 foot door.


----------



## m1west

Just work on it on nice days and cover it outside. You likely only need 15 nice days over the winter.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Ahhh yess

15 nice days in NW Oregon.....Woooohooo....thats a stretch


----------



## Snowy Rivers

The S10 Blazer plan for the cabin is still on the table at the top of the stack.
The White 98 is off the table.
The 85 blue rig is a mess.   (Got a really good look at it yesterday with permission of the owner)
Far too big of a mess to deal with.

Ad copy for a Gen one S10 is running and we will be patient.....A good candidate will come along.

So for now....the project needs to move forward.

Time to get to work on the engine build....
Ordered up the soft plug/galley plug set yesterday.
We have some good weather on tap for today....
I want to get the oil galley plugs installed....INCLUDING the hidden one below the register on the rear main.
Rear 1/4" pipe plugs just above rear cam plug.
I tapped the front oil galley/lifter galley bores for 1/4" NPT and will get all this stuff in and finished up.

The crankshaft needs cleaning up from sitting in the shop.

The plan is to get the crank in and ready to go.....

Once the crank is in and the plugs dealt with things will be able to sit until I have rings and a few other parts.

So.....With luck an acceptable donor for the cabin will come along and present itself....

Not much else at present......


----------



## Snowy Rivers

The great plan fell on it's butt.

Get to the parts house and the soft plug kit they ordered was for a 392 IH engine....Not  a 400 Small block Chevy.

Nobody had any kits in stock.

Soooooo...this great day was wasted.....Came home and got online....Complete set of plugs will be here in 3 days...

But not with the lovely 65F weather....

And a good time was had by all.....NOT.

Started revisiting the idea of using another standard S10 PICKUP CAB for the rear crew cabin......
Keep the same Generation and mount the rear one on backwards.

This will give us the room.....4 doors are a good thing.....
Ads on craigs list.....

So for now....we just sit and wait...AGAIN...


----------



## m1west

Snowy Rivers said:


> The great plan fell on it's butt.
> 
> Get to the parts house and the soft plug kit they ordered was for a 392 IH engine....Not  a 400 Small block Chevy.
> 
> Nobody had any kits in stock.
> 
> Soooooo...this great day was wasted.....Came home and got online....Complete set of plugs will be here in 3 days...
> 
> But not with the lovely 65F weather....
> 
> And a good time was had by all.....NOT.
> 
> Started revisiting the idea of using another standard S10 PICKUP CAB for the rear crew cabin......
> Keep the same Generation and mount the rear one on backwards.
> 
> This will give us the room.....4 doors are a good thing.....
> Ads on craigs list.....
> 
> So for now....we just sit and wait...AGAIN...


you have already spent more time and energy looking for a body than if you just built it.


----------



## vintagebike

probably the Ashwagandha talking but “life is a journey, enjoy the ride”


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Looking for just what one wants can take time.
In this case, I am not interested in a "Tin can"....I want a comfortable cab with the amenities.
The current little single cab is fine....other than the fact that it does not have any extra passenger room....
I have looked at some of the "Add on" cabs and these are great....just outside of my budget.

Time is free.....at least to me it is. The energy....Subjective I guess.

Just going to move on to getting the 406 small block going together this winter.
We have much of what is needed.
Block is done
New pistons are on the rods and ready to go in.
Have the bottom end bearings
Cam bearings are in
Have new High capacity oil pan
Have the Vortec heads....need to clean them up a bit and drill the steam holes needed to use with the 400 block.


I can place want ads on Craigs list free.....
Will get going on the engine and related stuff and something good will come along.....always does.
The weather is not going to permit much outdoor work....so the indoor scene is where I need to be ......

This summer allowed quite a bit to get completed
The front axles are complete and ready to go with the air ride system
All the axle hubs have been gone through (Bearings) and are good to go
6 new wheels fabricated and ready to go....4 have fresh tires.

Plenty of work to do.....
The soft plug kits will be here in a day or so.....

Patience......not one of my strong points.....

Yessssss indeed......I am enjoying the ride.

This project is not the destination.....it's the journey, and it has been an interesting one so far.
We have met a lot of very interesting folks along the way.
Some here in the forum, and have met a few in person.....and many others along the trail while looking for goodies.


----------



## m1west

Snowy Rivers said:


> Looking for just what one wants can take time.
> In this case, I am not interested in a "Tin can"....I want a comfortable cab with the amenities.
> The current little single cab is fine....other than the fact that it does not have any extra passenger room....
> I have looked at some of the "Add on" cabs and these are great....just outside of my budget.
> 
> Time is free.....at least to me it is. The energy....Subjective I guess.
> 
> Just going to move on to getting the 406 small block going together this winter.
> We have much of what is needed.
> Block is done
> New pistons are on the rods and ready to go in.
> Have the bottom end bearings
> Cam bearings are in
> Have new High capacity oil pan
> Have the Vortec heads....need to clean them up a bit and drill the steam holes needed to use with the 400 block.
> 
> 
> I can place want ads on Craigs list free.....
> Will get going on the engine and related stuff and something good will come along.....always does.
> The weather is not going to permit much outdoor work....so the indoor scene is where I need to be ......
> 
> This summer allowed quite a bit to get completed
> The front axles are complete and ready to go with the air ride system
> All the axle hubs have been gone through (Bearings) and are good to go
> 6 new wheels fabricated and ready to go....4 have fresh tires.
> 
> Plenty of work to do.....
> The soft plug kits will be here in a day or so.....
> 
> Patience......not one of my strong points.....
> 
> Yessssss indeed......I am enjoying the ride.
> 
> This project is not the destination.....it's the journey, and it has been an interesting one so far.
> We have met a lot of very interesting folks along the way.
> Some here in the forum, and have met a few in person.....and many others along the trail while looking for goodies.


OK I give up, good luck on your journey


----------



## Snowy Rivers

M1
I appreciate where you are coming from, and your ideas are certainly sound plans...
I just do not want to fab up a box.....

Yes, I am capable of doing it....but this is not what I want to end up with.

The journey.....Very subjective indeed.


----------



## vintagebike

For your 2100, maybe take another look at an early Land Rover Discovery body...junk yard cheap, robust and very classy.  A friend of mine is helping do just that in central California.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Yessssss.

There are several  bodies that are quite suitable.

The S10 stuff ...if its decent is going for $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
One that I have been sniffing around is the Mitsubishi Montero.     Saw a decent one for $800
Could not pass the smog test and they can't seem to fix it.
A few others that had mechanical or electronic issues that were cheap....

All looked decent in and out.

I am getting a tad gun shy....."Oh yeah...shes cherry"....Drive several hours and the thing is a ROT BOX.....

Trying to stay close...Within 10-20 miles from here on out.

I love the look of the Land Rover.....
How about a Benz G Wagen.....Woooo hoooo..$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


----------



## Snowy Rivers

OK
LOOKING FOR A CAB/CREW COMPARTMENT FOR THE 2100 IS OVER

Scored a 2001 outback this morning.
LL BEAN EDITION

Actually runs and drives.
DIRT CHEAP TOO.

Leather interior......very sweet...Needs a good mucking out and such.....but a sweetheart.....

Easy place to load too....nice flat ground....and it will run up on the trailer just fine.....

Need to prune out the factory wiring for much of the high tech wizardry....Make my own gauge panel and interface with the power windows and stuff we want.

Waaaaaaaaaaaay too many electronic modules to suit me......

But the creature comforts are many...Even has two sun roofs.....Just another leak....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

The beast is home safe and sound.
Weather was wretched all last night ....got a nice break while were getting the Little green rig.
Then we got slammed with a real gulley washer.....

But it is home now.
Not sure when we will be able to get after it.

But at least plans can be made in earnest now that we have something to work with..

This beast was all the trailer wanted to haul..... 3800 pounds


----------



## Snowy Rivers

With the new prize actually here now.....The task of preparing the chassis for it's new duty assignment commences. 

Wiring is the only task that can take a bit of Back engineering and imagination.
The rig is so loaded with options that it would be a shame not to have all the goodies working...

Getting the wiring all sorted out will take a bit of time....so I set to looking for a factory manual.

I did not want to pop for a book until I had a rig in hand...ACTUALLY SITTING HERE.
Things change with every model year (At least they can)   

Found the right one and grabbed it.

Plan
Use as much of the original engine wiring as possible to connect to the Chevy 406
I sent an email to an outfit that makes wiring harness adapters for Alernators to see if they have an adapter to go from the Outback harness to the GM CS130D GM Alternator......

The two alternators are similar......Would be sweet to just use the one that came on the OB

Sorting out the sending units for such things as   OIL PRESSURE, WATER TEMP....
The oil pressure sender uses BSPT (British standard pipe thread)  similar to 1/8" pipe.....An adapter is available readiliy

The coolant temp sender (Feeds the ECM as well as the gauge) also requires and an adapter to get it to the Chevy engine.
Also readily available...

Speedo is pretty much a moot point....WHY ??
The tach MAY be able to operate on the V8 with some sort of GIZMO....Not sure...but will research that.


As far as mounting the body goes....Simple task...A few brackets using standard urethane mounts (Will adapt an easy to source part)

The engine in the OB has a failed vibration dampener.....I want to replace that and get the thing running smooth (Get a video of it) before I yank it out.....The engine can likely recoupe most if not all of the $$$$ spend to get the entire rig.

This rig has an auto transmission....again...a very saleable item.
All the subframes, rear drive line and rear axle will all go up for sale...


The fuel tank is located midship, aft of the rear seat...transverse in the body...
The sending unit that feeds the gauge is a bastard ohm rating and this makes adapting a common tank sender ......BUT...Just might keep the factory tank and use things as they are...(Dash gauge will all work fine)  just need to remove the high pressure fuel pump and refit the setup with a little different pickup tube....

The fuel tank pickup and pump is easily accessible through a cover plate behind the rear seat....RH side.

Having all the lines needed already in the body....A REAL PLUS

The ADDITION of an extra tank with a  transfer pump to refill the stock tank looks very inviting (Stock tank is 16 gallons) NOT GONNA FEED THE V8 long.

Possibly a pair of extra tanks...each mounted in the rear wheel house openings will certainly be on the table....

Once we get the rig off the trailer...first thing will be to muck out the cabin....Clean it up as well as we can for now.
Then get the balancer replaced on the engine....

Once the engine is running smooth....Start the dismantle process.....

Not sure what all we can do this winter...but there are many things to keep these old hands busy.

Much of this sort of endeavor requires far more time doing online research and then planning the attack strategy.....

Best part...The cabin is complete...Right down to the last detail....even power windows and a CD player.

The floor shifter for the transmission is cable operated and will be easy to modify a bracket or two and get a different cable to connect to the TH350 tranny.

The rig has a 4 speed auto....But the pattern is the same on the shifter.
A mater of machining up a crank arm assembly to get the ratio correct to make things talk to each other....
Another plus....We don't have to buy the bastard step child ugly shifter for big $$$$$$$$$

Ah well... Plan is coming together....FINALLY......


----------



## western auto

just a thought-spend 75$ fix the subaru........ sell it for 3000$ and go buy something awesome to put on your chassis, like a short conversion van or something similar, you will even get a spare motor trans that way, i would think something full size would look better especially after the tracks are on


----------



## Snowy Rivers

I was originally planning on the Astro van.
Too difficult to access the engine.

Plus the big issue is the weight of the body is more than my equipment can lift.(Medium sized skidsteer)

Believe me...many ideas have crossed the table on this project.

Trying to find a combination that fits, that is cheap to acquire and that we can handle has been a tough sell.
For a time the idea of two S10 cabs back to back were all the rage.

Trying to find a single cab S10 proved to be nearly impossible...At least something that was not trashed.

I think the little Outback is going to be cool....

I have seen a couple with the Mattracks ...they look sweet.

Mattracks are a spendy item.....

I have made too many major change orders to date....I think this one needs to stick


----------



## m1west




----------



## m1west

Westernauto, gave me an idea that will solve all your problems and get you on the snow in short order. Fix the Subaru and sell it and everything else. Then buy a van or truck similar to mine for $4500.00 ( 4X4 with lockers ) and put a set of Mattracks EZ utv for $4100.00 and a lift kit for $300.00. It took me less than 2 weeks of spare time to make all the brackets, install the lift kit and install the tracks. It has a supercharged 3 cylinder that makes 85 horsepower. The van weighs 1500# without the tracks. It has all the comforts of any modern vehicle, even A/C that works. Very roomy inside and best of all still gets around 10 mpg in low range with the tracks climbing the mountain in the snow. This year I am installing studs on the tracks as last year it was very icy on steep mountain road. Very comfortable, reliable, good MPG and capable of anything I have thrown at it.


----------



## m1west




----------



## Snowy Rivers

That is waaaaay cool
How well does it work in the deeper snow


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Ya know
The Outback is in good shape
I have $500 in it
Why not do the Mattracks on it.
I have seen them on tracks before 
Not sure if I can sell the 2100
But at this point in time the hard work is still to come 
Building the tracks is gonna be a big job
The OC12 is all finished now
What you are suggesting may be a great plan


----------



## m1west

Snowy Rivers said:


> That is waaaaay cool
> How well does it work in the deeper snow


It does extremely well in snow, especially wet heavy snow


----------



## m1west

Snowy Rivers said:


> Ya know
> The Outback is in good shape
> I have $500 in it
> Why not do the Mattracks on it.
> I have seen them on tracks before
> Not sure if I can sell the 2100
> But at this point in time the hard work is still to come
> Building the tracks is gonna be a big job
> The OC12 is all finished now
> What you are suggesting may be a great plan


Problem with putting tracks on the Outback is its weight. The tracks you would need for it would be expensive.
You could sell off the components easier, OC12, grausers, your new engine, trans etc. would likely get what you need, especially if you can get 3k or so for the Outback.
 In the tracked 4X4 section Is the Build on the van and a Truck that I did first. The truck burned up in a forest fire last year. The truck I had in at least 5' of snow. on steep terrain. An added benefit is in the summer 27" utv tires and wheels will bolt right on for summer exploring. With the wheels, they get upwards of 35-45 mpg.


----------



## m1west

They are very tuff little units with real axels with differentials, real transfer case with 2x and 4x low and hi with lockers. No chains and belts like Polaris etc. Very roomy feel inside. I have a Nissan frontier and the feel is nearly the same inside. The van has rear seats with a cargo area or the seats fold up and there is a very large cargo area that you could sleep in if necessary. Most have around 25,000 to 40,000 miles on them and will go well over 100,000. there is a lot of youtube on both just the trucks and vans as well as tracked ones with lots of video. How I ended up with it is first I had a Thiokol 603 snow cat I used for a while, problem with it was 1- it weighed 5000# 2- got gallons to the mile 3- was extremely hot inside even with the doors open and snow on the ground 4- it was a bitch to steer on tight roads with switchbacks and the wife couldn't drive it in an emergency. So I sold it on this sight and bought a Tucker 442, thinking it was liter to haul, steered like a truck and the wife could drive it. 
2 years in a row the snow melted off the road half way to the cabin and there is no where to unload, park  or turn around 1/2 way. Made 2-  500 mile dry run trips with hotel stays. Built the first one ( Suzuki truck ) it was great, except a little tight inside with the wife and 100# dog. So I built the van. The van is perfect. Lots of room, comfort, easy to haul, reliable and capable. Not to mention miles to the gallon not gallons to the mile. After testing I sold the Tucker ( on this site ) and have never looked back. Seriously if you are looking for reliability, comfort, mileage and capability. I believe this is your best option as it was mine after a long trip around the barn trying other units. And they don't cost much to build (10k ish ) and if for some reason you need to sell it, a tracked one already done brings around $20k.


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## Snowy Rivers

Thank you for suggesting this idea AGAIN...
This is making a lot of sense.

As much as I love my project and all the fooling around making stuff....The pile of p[arts is getting along well.

Still need to get track belts....bolts, nuts...yada yada yada....
The engine is in pieces with most parts here.

The OC-12 IS DONE
Just needs the axle tubes bolted on and axles installed.
The sprockets will need to be recovered at some point.....

Still a fair bit of work.

A set of tracks to bolt to the OUTBACK WOULD BE SWEET...

I hate to cut and run...but this idea is looking pretty decent....and the thing can be trailered or just run down the road.....

I need to check out the Outback engine and see wasssup....then fix the balancer.
Check the tranny and sniff the oil.

I need to drive it and see what else is or is not in shape....

With the balancer rattling ....that's likel;y why it was offed ....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

AHHHH YEESSSSSSSSSSSSSS...
I just popped a call to a couple of bolt on track vendors.....Big $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ for the stuff to fit the bigger SUV.

With the amount of work already done to the 2100....I think I will keep plugging along.

The $20,000 plus cost for the bigger units is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out of my budget range.

In actuality my cat is well along.....

With a viable cab/crew box ready to go...ALMOST ...the engine will not take much to finish it up.

Lets just go for the gusto...and finish the Frankencat....

With all the wheelin and dealin that I have done I have very little hard $$$$ in this beast......

I have plenty of grousers and tires guides....Just need the belt and bolts/nuts

Still need a couple more tires and things are good.

When the $4100 for the tracks number was mentioned I was curious....The little ATV stuff yesss.

Ahhh well.....
We are good........


----------



## m1west

Snowy Rivers said:


> AHHHH YEESSSSSSSSSSSSSS...
> I just popped a call to a couple of bolt on track vendors.....Big $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ for the stuff to fit the bigger SUV.
> 
> With the amount of work already done to the 2100....I think I will keep plugging along.
> 
> The $20,000 plus cost for the bigger units is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out of my budget range.
> 
> In actuality my cat is well along.....
> 
> With a viable cab/crew box ready to go...ALMOST ...the engine will not take much to finish it up.
> 
> Lets just go for the gusto...and finish the Frankencat....
> 
> With all the wheelin and dealin that I have done I have very little hard $$$$ in this beast......
> 
> I have plenty of grousers and tires guides....Just need the belt and bolts/nuts
> 
> Still need a couple more tires and things are good.
> 
> When the $4100 for the tracks number was mentioned I was curious....The little ATV stuff yesss.
> 
> Ahhh well.....
> We are good........


You want UTV tracks for the mini van and trucks, they are around $4000,00. Thats why I recommended selling the outback and buying a Japanese mini truck or van. They only weigh 1500# and the UTV tracks are good to 3500#. The P.S.I. on my van is .68, thats right there with many snow cats. I have seen UTV tracks on Suzuki samurai, and they Kinda work, as they are too heavy like the Outback. The tracks for that weight are $$$


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## Snowy Rivers

Yup....big $$$$

I had looked at large SUV Mattracks back a couple years.....big $$$$$


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## vintagebike

Is the Mitsubishi in your pics JDM right hand drive?


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## m1west

vintagebike said:


> Is the Mitsubishi in your pics JDM right hand drive?


yes, shifting with your left hand takes a minute to get used to.


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## vintagebike

Yikes…riding and trying to share snow machine trails could be life threatening.


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## m1west

vintagebike said:


> Yikes…riding and trying to share snow machine trails could be life threatening.


I use mine for cabin access, in the winter I have never seen another vehicle or snowmobile up there.


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## Snowy Rivers

Right hand drive can be an interesting experience.

I looked at an Outback that was RH drive.....That part was not a real deterrent ....but the RH side was beat all to rat crap  (Old mail carrier probably)   Gotta be a lot of Fubar'd mail boxes somewhere.....


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## Pontoon Princess

found this on Facebook market place in Bella Vista, California, $4,000.00 OBO, trades? they are wanting to make a deal asap.......V-6 running, needs a little work.


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## Snowy Rivers

Cool.
These Astros do seem to find their way into all manner if different places for sure.

I have put a lot of time into the 2100 so far With the axles all done and the OC12 rebuilt and ready to go
I really do not want to totally bolt the camp and start over at this late stage of the game.

What is the cat chassis on this Van cat...did the ad say ???


----------



## Pontoon Princess

don't believe I said anything about abandoning the current project, I see it as, if 1 is good, then 2 is better....with your vast knowledge you could easily make it a real goer for this years adventures as you move forward with the original built...quite sure countless snow catters would love to meet you sooner than later !

Joseph is calling

Joseph is calling

Joesph is calling

the ad did not say what cat chassis it is, the seller is also willing to trade for camp trailer, really sounds like make any offer and it is yours

pretty sure the cute puppy is not included.


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## m1west

Cant hardly believe anyone would want to get rid of that.


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## Snowy Rivers

Thanks for posting the pics.
THE PUP IS A CUTE ONE FOR SURE...

It would be interesting to know the story behind the cat...

If I drag home any more goodies....I am likely gonna be sleeping in it somewhere ... 

One of our members (Fatsquatch) and I have met and swapped some goodies between us.
I am always happy to entertain....


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## Snowy Rivers

Hmmmmm
The other half was snooping around in the outback.....Comments made about fixing the dampener and keeping it for the Beater grocery getter.

There goes my cat cab..


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Outback off the trailer this morning without incident....

Runs like crap.....
A big oil leak in the front of the engine.
Warmed it up enough to check out things 
Auto climate control....IT ALL WORKS....
Electric windows work....
Power drivers seat works.
Wipers work

Pulled a Car fax...
Never been wrecked....
6 owners since new

Gonna make a splendid cab for the cat...
Comfortable seating.....

Not much else to say at present
With winter coming on....Gonna be a catch as catch can as far as the dismantle goes.
Will get after as much design work as we can as far as getting the Roo To fit the cat.

Should not be a big deal....Some simple fabrication to anchor the body to the 2100 tub....Go from there.


----------



## vintagebike

But does it have seat heaters?


----------



## Snowy Rivers

I believe it does.
The holes are in the console but the switches seem to be MIA 
Will need to sort this out at a later date.

I have a FACTORY wiring manual coming....Should be here today.....

Getting things sorted out with the wiring and such will take a bit of doing.....

I want to keep all the interior functionality up and working.
The annoying crap like the security imobilizer and alarm need to be removed (These can fail and leave your butt stranded)
The rig does not have a volt meter in the dash.
I will use the GM CS130D alternator that came with the Vortec engine and wire it up as a stand alone with its own volt meter and a single wire activation......

The  factory dash tach may be able to be used with an adapter to run with the v8 engine.

These are so many questions right now........Just need to take them one at a time.

As I stumble across the various answers....I write down the data...then move on.

Having the factory tach work would be a nice perk.
The factory fuel gauge works....
Oil pressure is a light
Alternator is a light
For this high end of a car....I would have expected gauges across the spectrum.....This is the LL BEAN EDITION H6 3.0
But the cabin is sweet.....Gonna be a first class act for the cat.

Most of the work is going to be just wrenching....getting the drive train removed and then sorting out the wiring that we need as well as what we do not.......

I feel really good about this.
All this joy for $500

Good bet that the engine and tranny/drive train and suspension will sell easily for far more than the purchase price..

Was only 15 miles to get it (one way)

Old green Burb was quite happy to drag it home too.....
The Outback weighs 3700 ##  (We run it across the scales on the way home)
That Boxer 6 cylinder engine is a strange looking duck....

I watched a video on removing it.  Pretty much a piece of cake..

I can hang my air hoist on the bucket of the skid steer and lift it out......

I am just going to take my time and pick it apart.....

A good suds job with the hot washer will get the engine bay all spiffy....

Very roomy in the bay.....

May have to build some sort of wheel dolly to be able to move it after all the parts are gone......

Get it stripped out and sitting up on a big fat tire (Got a couple of smaller loader tires)

Lots of fun for sure.

I need to sell the Cab that is on the cat now....As well as the pickup box...


----------



## m1west

That shouldn't be difficult, l can imagine there is a good market for that stuff.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

I am sure of it.
Engine
Tranny
Complete suspension...front and back (All of it)
Rear drive shaft.....

Craig's list will likely bring somebody sniffing around with cash in hand....
I sure do not need it cluttering up my space.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Snooping about in the Subi....This thing has the bottom 4 inches of the windshield by the wipers heated....
I have never seen that before.
Heated mirrors...yes...heated rear window..yes....but I have never seen a heated front glass...Makes sense in the cold country...

Probably why the damned thing is cracked too.... 

This buggy has every option I think that was available....

Just gonna take a bit of TLC to bring her back.....but it will be cool.....
Going where outbacks have not gone.....Yeah right....


----------



## Pontoon Princess

white astro snow cat van creation, with a little TLC, you too could be enjoying the roomy and spacious astro snow cat well into the future,

phone number is

530-515-5725

again

530-515-5725

operators standing by


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet ....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

The saga continues....
Sunday we had to meet a client, and on our way we stumbled across what has to be the last yard sale of the season.
We rolled up and there is a 1991 S10 Blazer sitting in the yard....I asked the question and pointed  "Wasssssup"
The little truck had rotted out a soft plug and lost coolant....Seazed up the engine...

Some quick listing of the Outback and the callers went wild...Blew up my phone until midnight last night.

Sold the Outback this afternoon...Doubled my $$$$ and grabbed the little Chevy 4x4


This is what I have wanted all along for the cat cab....
First Generation S10 Blazer.

Whats even better....The sellers even delivered it too.
Everything clicked and it's here......

Straight...Pretty good shape.....AND NO MOLD....

EVEN THE POWER WINDOWS WORK.   

Paint is sketchy....Great candidate for a rattle can Rat Rod paint scheme...

This body will be a buttload lighter than the Outback too....

The rolling chassis on the factory alloy wheels will move out easily...
Finally....exactly what the Doc ordered.....

So we have what was desired and money back in the pocket.....The Blazer will bolt up to the mounts we made last fall for the single cab.

Has tilt wheel too....Nothing inside has been molested....

Will need seat covers to spiffy it up......  and may replace the carpet with rubber floor covering......

I could not be happier.....been a helluva last few days trying to coax this deal to fruition...

Strange to see the factory alloy wheels with the factory center caps still intact after all these years....
Dash pad is not cracked....Grille is pristine too....
Gonna look sweet on the 2100 chassis.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Weather was somewhat decent this morning.
We grabbed the little tractor and a chain and did some maneuvers with the little critter.

Some jockeying and a couple stabs at it and the little guy is all snuggled up next to it's new home...

The overall length is nearly perfect....
The one side shot looks like the front doors are nearly lined up.

The front cab mounts should be the same between the Blazer and the pickup...

As we go back....things will get different....no worries

Li'l Red doing the muscle this morning.....

Got some intimate time in the cab....A few things that need fooling with.

Heater temp cable seems to be stuck.....Not a big deal....Far easier that the electronic HVAC system.

And its stuck in this hot setting.....

Folks told me NO KEYS

Found them above the drivers visor.....Go figure....

So the door locks work.
Ignition lock has been gutted....PROPERLY....So a fresh cylinder can be installed easily......

Key does not work in the tail gate....Oh well....easy fix


Lots of cleaning up.....

Gonna get the garbage can and a mucking shovel.........
All in all...A great score......

Thinking about adding lift blocks under the mounts to get about 6" more height.....

Gonna need to add a veranda around the back....otherwise the hatchback gonna be worthless.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

UPDATE...
Not much happening....A few parts for the 406 Small block Chevy are trickling in.....
Soft plug kit and oil galley plugs.....
Been busy otherwise.


----------



## vintagebike

McCall Saturday morning cup of coffee , a Snowy update and snow in the forecast.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

SWEEEEEEEEEEET
That time of year....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Back in the saddle again...
Been a bit since posting.
Between the weather, health concerns and other crap....been unable to get at it.
With the weather closed in now....it's time to get to building the Cats permanent engine.
1980 400 small block chevy...bored .030" oversize   406 inches.

Many of you troops are old hands at what I am going to write....But for those not well versed....we are getting into the innards of this Chevy Mouse motor.
A true FrankenMouse.
400 small block (1980 vintage) Stock Chevy 400 crank with stock 400 rods  .030" OS silvolite pistons
Custom high capacity oil pan with high volume oil pump
1998 Chevy 5.7 L Vortec heads, water pump, intake manifold is different too and we will be using one for a Quadrajet spreadbore carburetor. (After market)
Large cap HEI ignition distributor.
In theory....406 inches with a touch over 9:1 compression ratio (Vortec heads have smaller chambers than the old 400 heads)  Cam....still not decided yet
********************************************************************************************************************************************************
I had received the soft plugs and other goodies a while back....
I tapped out the oil gallery plugs in the front of the block behind the timing sprocket (Top) to eliminate having the cup plugs blow out....YES THEY CAN DO THAT....1/4" PIPE PLUGS WILL THREAD IN .

Care must be taken on the center oil passage to NOT tap too deep and cover the oil passage...THIS PASSAGE oils the front cam bearing and the front main bearing.

Piccy shows the oil passage with the arrow.

All the original rear plugs were replaced with Allen head type 1/4" pipe plugs (Some ass hat had worked over the old square socket type plugs)

New brass core plugs all the way on the water jackets.....BRASS DO NOT ROT OUT....

One piccy shows the water pump flange on the passenger side.....I am using VORTEC serpentine drive pump.
The lower hole was for the early block (Gen 1) this was the coolant bypass port

Must be tapped and plugged to avoid a huge leak...... GREEN EVERYWHERE.

The rear cam plug needs to be tapped in until the lips are just flush with the machined face of the cam bore boss.

Not to worry if you get it a tad too far in.....with the block bare...just slip a driver into the rear can bearing (Loose slip fit) and then use a length of pipe and the trusty club to nudge the plug back flush...  (Yeah I DID)

Not paying attention to this detail can see a cam shaft chew the plug if it rubs and we do not need metal shavings in there....

A piccy of the top rear of the LH cylinder deck....1/4" pipe plug threads in to just below the deck...

I like Permatex aviation gasket  sealer for the galley plug threads and the soft plugs.

A piece of scotchbrite will dso nice to polish the core plug bores....then use the brush on the sealer cap to brush a little sealer in the bores....THE CAM PLUG SHOULD HAVE THE SEALER APPLIED TO THE RIM OF THE PLUG...THEN INSTALL.

WE DO NOT WANT SEALER DRIZZLING INTO THE CAM BORE.....

When finished with the scotchbrite piece...GET RID OF IT SO IT DOES NOT WIND UP SOMEWHERE IN THE ENGINE.....

The steam holes in the cylinder deck are peculiar to the 400 small block Chevy.

Siamesed cylinders....4.155" bore (.030" oversized)

These holes allow coolant/steam to flow into the heads and out.

The Vortec heads MUST BE MODIFIED USING THE 400 GASKET AS A GUIDE and holes drilled into the coolant passage.

Without this procedure....OVERHEATING and real bad issues.

Notice the V BELT used to lift the block with the hoist.....Keeps things from getting damaged....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

More pics 

Heavy garbage bag is top shelf protection during the build.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

LAST COUPLE PICS.

I hope to get more work done soon.
These is one internal oil passage plug that still needs to go in.

Here is the diagram....REAR MAIN AREA.....Little 1/2" cup plug.


This plug separates the oil passage from the oil pump to the filter from the line going to the engine bearings.

Many folks do not know of this plug.

It needs to come out when doing a major rebuild to allow cleaning fluid to clear out the nasty stuff..


----------



## Snowy Rivers

As far as the cam goes....
Some mitigating issues with the VORTEC HEADS.

The Vortec heads do not have a lot of room between the spring retainer and the valve stem seal.
a cam with about .450" lift is about it....UNLESS machine work is done, springs and retainers are replaced.

The heads I have are in great shape....For the application there is zero reason to spend $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ on springs, retainers and machine work.

Decided to go with the stock heads and just clean then well, lap the valves and then drill the steam holes......

Summit offers a couple nice cams in the .443" lift arena with 218 duration.

Slightly thumpy idle with good power in the1600 to 4800 RPM range

Should work well.

This engine does not need to scream at 6 grand.....4500 RPM should be "NUTS TO THE BAR"


----------



## m1west

Snowy Rivers said:


> As far as the cam goes....
> Some mitigating issues with the VORTEC HEADS.
> 
> The Vortec heads do not have a lot of room between the spring retainer and the valve stem seal.
> a cam with about .450" lift is about it....UNLESS machine work is done, springs and retainers are replaced.
> 
> The heads I have are in great shape....For the application there is zero reason to spend $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ on springs, retainers and machine work.
> 
> Decided to go with the stock heads and just clean then well, lap the valves and then drill the steam holes......
> 
> Summit offers a couple nice cams in the .443" lift arena with 218 duration.
> 
> Slightly thumpy idle with good power in the1600 to 4800 RPM range
> 
> Should work well.
> 
> This engine does not need to scream at 6 grand.....4500 RPM should be "NUTS TO THE BAR"


Watch you lobe centerline, the rumpity rump usually comes from tightening the lobe center from a stock centerline of around 114 degrees. You are saying you are around 9:1. is the chamber cc on the new heads the same as the cc on the original heads ?? If it is the same you still are going to have to watch you lobe center. I would not go any tighter than 112 degrees with the duration you are stating or you will be running premium fuel or worse.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Yeah...good stuff

The original heads (Stock 400) had 8:1 comp ratio

LOBE CENTERS ARE 106 DEGREES

I have had this cam in stock 5.7 engines.....Works great.....The Vortec head config seems to really help.

Stock 400 with 8:1 and a similar cam are a bit of a Turd....
Never had detonation issues....

Stock 400 heads are 76cc chambers and the vortecs are 64cc

Pistons have a big azz dish in them...Soup bowls...

If we have to run good fuel....so be it..We have 91 octane alky free stuff at the cardlock...

Detonation on these Franken engines can certainly be an issue....We will just have to see what shakes.

Without going to flat top pistons to get more quench area there is the risk of rattle.

I wanted to keep comp ratio in the low 9:1 area.

The soup bowl pistons make quench a real ??????

The piccy is the actual pistons going in.

These are stock 400 SBC +.030" pistons.

The 400 SBC is a forgotten bastard child.

I am running the stock 5.565" Rods too...along with the 3.75" stroke stoke crank.

There are certainly better combinations of stroke, rod length and piston pin height.

But....the crank and rods are in nice shape.....and for this toy....it will be a fair runner..

Good torque beast....

The low gear ratio in the cat is likely not going to load the engine heavily....WE shall see...


----------



## m1west

Snowy Rivers said:


> Yeah...good stuff
> 
> The original heads (Stock 400) had 8:1 comp ratio
> 
> LOBE CENTERS ARE 106 DEGREES
> 
> I have had this cam in stock 5.7 engines.....Works great.....The Vortec head config seems to really help.
> 
> Stock 400 with 8:1 and a similar cam are a bit of a Turd....
> Never had detonation issues....
> 
> Stock 400 heads are 76cc chambers and the vortecs are 64cc
> 
> Pistons have a big azz dish in them...Soup bowls...
> 
> If we have to run good fuel....so be it..We have 91 octane alky free stuff at the cardlock...
> 
> Detonation on these Franken engines can certainly be an issue....We will just have to see what shakes.
> 
> Without going to flat top pistons to get more quench area there is the risk of rattle.
> 
> I wanted to keep comp ratio in the low 9:1 area.
> 
> The soup bowl pistons make quench a real ??????
> 
> The piccy is the actual pistons going in.
> 
> These are stock 400 SBC +.030" pistons.
> 
> The 400 SBC is a forgotten bastard child.
> 
> I am running the stock 5.565" Rods too...along with the 3.75" stroke stoke crank.
> 
> There are certainly better combinations of stroke, rod length and piston pin height.
> 
> But....the crank and rods are in nice shape.....and for this toy....it will be a fair runner..
> 
> Good torque beast....
> 
> The low gear ratio in the cat is likely not going to load the engine heavily....WE shall see...


106 on the centerline is pretty tight,  64cc chambers and .030 overbore, your build not mine. There are free compression calculators online to see what your static and dynamic compression ratios are before you build it. I would take advantage of that before you find yourself using race gas at $15.00 per gallon.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

The calcs come up at 9:1 using a few of the online calculators....
My only concern is the lack of quench area with the dished pistons....but with only 9:1  this likely will not be an issue.

This basic build has been done many times by a lot of builders....The most talked about items seem to be rod length.

Stock 400 rods are at 5.565" 
For the RPM range the stock rods are fine....Many builders want to go to the 5.7" or 6" length and use a piston with the pin height raised.

High RPM application....yeah......4200 (Stock engines can handle 5000)    I am not at all concerned....

I owned a 79 GMC with a 400 sbc ....ran the wheels off it.....Stuck a bigger cam in it.....It was OK.
Decided on a big block....the 454 was hard to find back then...I went with an OLDS 455 

Stump puller....

I am going to look over the data on the build and see if there are any issues that are going to grab me by the butt....

It never hurts to look at things several times before the hammer is dropped


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Pulled up one of the dynamic compression calculators and input all the data I have (Checked the numbers)
With the cam I mentioned ...Static comp ratio at 9.4:1 the dynamic comes out at a 8.9:1
I rechecked the numbers to get the comp ratio (Static)  I am not real keen on the calculators...the one I used did not have the head gasket bore in the mix...Yeah it is only a tiny thing...but given that the bore is a bit bigger than the cylinder....it is going to add some volume and likely reduce the actual numbers a tad.

These calculators are what seem to be a good yard stick......
I measured the deck height on the block before I started screwing with it.
I dropped the crank in and one of the stock pistons and rods (Junk)

The pistons were at ZERO deck.....

The Silvolite 1443 that I have are machined with the compression height of the pistons .020" in the hole to allow for machining the decks... (Stock in 1.560"....New slugs are 1.540" )

Decks are good......so no cuts there...

So we lost .020" in the stack up and this will cut a bit off the ratio.
Felpro gaskets for the 400 are .039" compressed
Piston dish are 22cc  (Soup bowls)
Bore of 4.155"
Stroke 3.750"
Rod length 5.565" (Stock 400)
Head chamber volume 64cc (Nominal production run stuff for L31 Vortec heads)

With what I have as far as numbers goes is pretty close.....We are not going to end up with a10.5 or greater comp ratio and need AV GAS.

Slightly over 9:1 static and dynamic will usually run less.
We can play with cam timing a bit....I did the calcs at 0

I do not see any real issues here......

Again...my one worry is the lack of quench area...... The soup bowl pistons have a small rim on them is all

But at this point.....time will tell.......

Thanks for bringing this subject up.

Any time ya start building a Franken motor.....things can certainly get interesting depending on what ya toss together...


----------



## m1west

Snowy Rivers said:


> Pulled up one of the dynamic compression calculators and input all the data I have (Checked the numbers)
> With the cam I mentioned ...Static comp ratio at 9.4:1 the dynamic comes out at a 8.9:1
> I rechecked the numbers to get the comp ratio (Static)  I am not real keen on the calculators...the one I used did not have the head gasket bore in the mix...Yeah it is only a tiny thing...but given that the bore is a bit bigger than the cylinder....it is going to add some volume and likely reduce the actual numbers a tad.
> 
> These calculators are what seem to be a good yard stick......
> I measured the deck height on the block before I started screwing with it.
> I dropped the crank in and one of the stock pistons and rods (Junk)
> 
> The pistons were at ZERO deck.....
> 
> The Silvolite 1443 that I have are machined with the compression height of the pistons .020" in the hole to allow for machining the decks... (Stock in 1.560"....New slugs are 1.540" )
> 
> Decks are good......so no cuts there...
> 
> So we lost .020" in the stack up and this will cut a bit off the ratio.
> Felpro gaskets for the 400 are .039" compressed
> Piston dish are 22cc  (Soup bowls)
> Bore of 4.155"
> Stroke 3.750"
> Rod length 5.565" (Stock 400)
> Head chamber volume 64cc (Nominal production run stuff for L31 Vortec heads)
> 
> With what I have as far as numbers goes is pretty close.....We are not going to end up with a10.5 or greater comp ratio and need AV GAS.
> 
> Slightly over 9:1 static and dynamic will usually run less.
> We can play with cam timing a bit....I did the calcs at 0
> 
> I do not see any real issues here......
> 
> Again...my one worry is the lack of quench area...... The soup bowl pistons have a small rim on them is all
> 
> But at this point.....time will tell.......
> 
> Thanks for bringing this subject up.
> 
> Any time ya start building a Franken motor.....things can certainly get interesting depending on what ya toss together...


Somthing doesnt seem correct. I built a stock stroke Dodge 5.9 magnum. factory 9 to 1. Comp cam custom grind. 110 degree lobe centers installed straight up, 500" lift and 218 degrees of duration @ .050. Timing is all in 34 degrees, 180 degree thermostat. Premium fuel is mandatory and if I don't let it idol for a minute before shutting it off, I have to stall it off or it tries to run on.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

I used to work for a Mopar dealer back in the early 70's
Them suckers always had issues with "Dieseling" 

I had a Chevy 454 in an 86 dually 4x4 and it was stock low compression.

That beast would run on when hot....I just got in the habit of shutting it off in gear.

I am not sure what to say...

I posted all the specs I have on the build.

Run the numbers and see what ya get.....

I ran numbers until I was dizzy.....The pistons are the stock type.....The one outlier is the Vortec heads at 64cc 
The stock 400 heads were crap even when new......

The 400 came out in the early days (1970) with 9.6:1 ratio....No stock type stuff available in that config....

The later 400's were all 8:1 (Trucks)

The Vortec chambers are a radical departure from the older SBC heads of years past.

This is my first SBC build using Vortecs.....The buzz is that they are the real deal....??????????????


----------



## m1west

Snowy Rivers said:


> I used to work for a Mopar dealer back in the early 70's
> Them suckers always had issues with "Dieseling"
> 
> I had a Chevy 454 in an 86 dually 4x4 and it was stock low compression.
> 
> That beast would run on when hot....I just got in the habit of shutting it off in gear.
> 
> I am not sure what to say...
> 
> I posted all the specs I have on the build.
> 
> Run the numbers and see what ya get.....
> 
> I ran numbers until I was dizzy.....The pistons are the stock type.....The one outlier is the Vortec heads at 64cc
> The stock 400 heads were crap even when new......
> 
> The 400 came out in the early days (1970) with 9.6:1 ratio....No stock type stuff available in that config....
> 
> The later 400's were all 8:1 (Trucks)
> 
> The Vortec chambers are a radical departure from the older SBC heads of years past.
> 
> This is my first SBC build using Vortecs.....The buzz is that they are the real deal....??????????????


I will do that, I used to know how with a calculator, that skill got lost to time.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

I found an enhanced online calculator that has all the variables.....

Here are the snapshots of the data I got after inserting all my numbers.
These numbers seem to agree fairly close to what I have scared up off the net by others who have done this build.
The Silvolite pistons have a big chamfer on the OD at the crown......This has got to drop the numbers a tad.

The piston spec says 22cc dish....but does not say anything about that big chamfer.

Still ...the numbers are going to be close


I fooled with the camshaft numbers quite a bit (Intake closing and LCA ) and the changed to the COMP ratio do not wiggle very much.

We have non alcohol premium fuel available at the card lock....
Really....I think this build can work pretty good.

IT IS going to be about as close to max comp ratio as I want to go....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

I run the numbers on the comp ratio calculator again using the specs of the stock Vortec cam used in the truck.
The Intake closing is 21.5 ABDC....Dynamic ratio went up to nearly 9.6:1 and the cam I am thinking about shows 9.03:1

Makes sense...The earlier the intake valve closes the more effective stroke there is...hence, a touch more comp ratio...

All these numbers make up the basis of how well a collection of parts is going to work together for sure.

My kingdom for some 1960's White pump premium fuel..
Back then some of the Oldsmobile 455 engines had 13:1 Comp ratio...Just talking about that much will melt pistons today.


----------



## m1west

Duration effects how long the intake valves are open, lobe centerline effects when the exhaust valve closes, thats why a short cam for torque and tight lobe centers give you a lot of grunt, and raise the dynamic compression down low where it will rattle if you get too carried away. Ive seen street cars run 11 to 1 static with a big cam of around 300 degrees @ .050 run on pump gas.  it works because the intake valve is open when the piston is coming up pushing it back out of the intake at low rpm then at high rpm the intake charge velocity stops the reversion and the speed of the flame front at 8000 rpm burns the fuel before it can detonate.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

YUP
That's the way I learned the theory....a long time ago.

This engine will likely never see much past 4500.

More likely 4000-4200......
I do not want to screw with machining the valve guide height and changing valve train hardware .....since the RPM is pretty low.

The Vortec heads flow well in the .400" to .450" lift area.

The stock L31 cam is like .414" Int and .428" Exh LIFT
The Duration is like 191 intake and 196 exh......

Trying to find a cam that does not have a mile of lift is tough.....

The ones I mentioned earlier have relatively close to stock lift......

Hot Doggers want 6K on up as far as revs..

The 400 was not meant for much over 5K 
I think 5200 was stock Red line.

Just a good stump puller with a good bad AZZ sound to it.
The one cam I have in mind is supposed to pull good in the 1600 to 4800 range IIRC

The choices are skimpy when ya want a moderate lift and a good thump at idle.....

Get the heads worked over, cut the guides down, new springs, retainers and such....sky is the limit....

The Vortec heads use a self guided rocker arm.....the stock ones are in perfect shape.

I need to get a set of standard length push rods....the 400 uses a flat tappet cam and the L31 Vortec was a hydraulic roller.
The roller cam used shorter push rods.....

I really do not like the roller set up's for the Gen 1 blocks.....I have used them.....good old hyd flat tappet will do.

Just need to use oil with the ZDDP additive so the cam lives....

The stock valve springs are really benign as far as pressure on the seat.....4500 RPM engine does not need UNGODLY springs......
The only things I want to do to the heads other than clean them....buff the valves clean, lap them to their seats and replace the guide seals......and drill the steam holes so they will talk to the 400 block...

Plenty good for a long time


----------



## m1west

it doesn't cost much more for a custom grind at CompCams, have done it many times. And now that I mention that, if you call them and give them your engine specs and tell them where you want to make the power, they will help you with a cam profile that will do the job.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Sweeeeeeeeeeeeet.....
Thank you for the info.

I have never used that company before.....

Do a grind that will have the stock lift, the  duration @.050 and the LCA to give it a bit of thump at idle (Cool factor)

I will look them up and see what can be done....

Sounds like fun....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

OK
I called Comp cams and we hashed out a cam profile....Basically all they wanted was for me to buy a ready made street cam....

I called Howards cams.
I ran some numbers by them.
I think we have a plan
Hydraulic flat tappet cam

Lift 416/430  (Almost exactly the same as a stock Vortec L31 (Pickup with 5.7)
Duration @.050" 213/223
LSA 106

Will speak with authority (Bit Choppy at idle
4000  RPM all in and all done...

Sounds like a perfect match for the application.....

More study to be done...but we are getting closer.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Trying to get the distributor interested in ordering the cam seems to be a different story.

Called up Isky cams and bounced these same specs off them.

NO PROBLEMO....$350 FOR CAM AND LIFTERS...

The Isky tech fella was sure this cam is gonna make gobs of torque and will fit the RPM range well....


----------



## m1west

Snowy Rivers said:


> OK
> I called Comp cams and we hashed out a cam profile....Basically all they wanted was for me to buy a ready made street cam....
> 
> I called Howards cams.
> I ran some numbers by them.
> I think we have a plan
> Hydraulic flat tappet cam
> 
> Lift 416/430  (Almost exactly the same as a stock Vortec L31 (Pickup with 5.7)
> Duration @.050" 213/223
> LSA 106
> 
> Will speak with authority (Bit Choppy at idle
> 4000  RPM all in and all done...
> 
> Sounds like a perfect match for the application.....
> 
> More study to be done...but we are getting closer.


What did they say about fuel octane requirement?


----------



## Snowy Rivers

We touched on the subject briefly....But the guy seemed most interested in selling me something they had ready to go....
I got a tad pushy at that point and told him I was interested in a custom grind to do a specific job based on the combination of parts that we had.

He then went over the numbers I gave him and he said "Oh, that's not possible"
I asked WHY ???
He seemed at a loss for comment for a short...."We don't have the masters" was his reply.

The cam grind I am looking at is very similar to several of the 420 rule circle track cams.

The difference is the duration mostly.

Howards cams response to the same questions (I described the build, type of machine, gearing, weight  yada yada yada.
The fella said "No problem"   We discussed the probable manners the engine will have and power band as well....
1500 RPM  to about 4200 then fall on it's azz.

Torque should be great....the throttle response quick...

Howards cams will not sell direct....I called the distributor and we discussed the package, but the guy said he would have to call me back with the price.    HAVE NOT HEARD YET.....

I called Isky and they were polite, fast and to the point.
YES WE CAN DO IT...BE ABOUT 3 WEEKS....$350 for the package and they deal with me direct over the phone and email.

We discussed the engine manners as well......I asked about the fuel requirements.....MAY NEED PUMP PREMIUM depending on how aggressive we get on timing......but should not be a real worry...

This Franken mutt combination of block, heads, rods, cam grind  and such is going to be a crap shoot me thinks.

Too many variables that I have no way of sorting out other than REAL TIME TEST.

The short block is all stock 400 SBC   ...so no worries there.
The addition of the Vortec heads to this soup mix should be a real plus as they are not known for detonation issues.
The L31 5.7 these came off of runs 9.4:1 comp.
The odd duck cam grind is another crap shoot, but the 106 LSA and resulting valve overlap....MAY BE A PLUS

I called up a buddy that has a computer program (Bench dyno) that has served him well and is usually real close to what he sees in the dyno room.

We plugged all the data in and it looks good ( I am always somewhat skeptical of these types of software) but I have known this fella a long time....He has been building engines many many years.....still has his shop open....locals swear by him.

I am not going to hang my azz out on a limb and make rash statements on this mutt.....but I am not real concerned so far.

When Isky said it should work sweet.....Those folks were here when I was a child.. .They should know wasssup....
Time to move ahead......

Always use the new cam as a paper weight......  if it turns out to be a turd....


----------



## m1west

Snowy Rivers said:


> We touched on the subject briefly....But the guy seemed most interested in selling me something they had ready to go....
> I got a tad pushy at that point and told him I was interested in a custom grind to do a specific job based on the combination of parts that we had.
> 
> He then went over the numbers I gave him and he said "Oh, that's not possible"
> I asked WHY ???
> He seemed at a loss for comment for a short...."We don't have the masters" was his reply.
> 
> The cam grind I am looking at is very similar to several of the 420 rule circle track cams.
> 
> The difference is the duration mostly.
> 
> Howards cams response to the same questions (I described the build, type of machine, gearing, weight  yada yada yada.
> The fella said "No problem"   We discussed the probable manners the engine will have and power band as well....
> 1500 RPM  to about 4200 then fall on it's azz.
> 
> Torque should be great....the throttle response quick...
> 
> Howards cams will not sell direct....I called the distributor and we discussed the package, but the guy said he would have to call me back with the price.    HAVE NOT HEARD YET.....
> 
> I called Isky and they were polite, fast and to the point.
> YES WE CAN DO IT...BE ABOUT 3 WEEKS....$350 for the package and they deal with me direct over the phone and email.
> 
> We discussed the engine manners as well......I asked about the fuel requirements.....MAY NEED PUMP PREMIUM depending on how aggressive we get on timing......but should not be a real worry...
> 
> This Franken mutt combination of block, heads, rods, cam grind  and such is going to be a crap shoot me thinks.
> 
> Too many variables that I have no way of sorting out other than REAL TIME TEST.
> 
> The short block is all stock 400 SBC   ...so no worries there.
> The addition of the Vortec heads to this soup mix should be a real plus as they are not known for detonation issues.
> The L31 5.7 these came off of runs 9.4:1 comp.
> The odd duck cam grind is another crap shoot, but the 106 LSA and resulting valve overlap....MAY BE A PLUS
> 
> I called up a buddy that has a computer program (Bench dyno) that has served him well and is usually real close to what he sees in the dyno room.
> 
> We plugged all the data in and it looks good ( I am always somewhat skeptical of these types of software) but I have known this fella a long time....He has been building engines many many years.....still has his shop open....locals swear by him.
> 
> I am not going to hang my azz out on a limb and make rash statements on this mutt.....but I am not real concerned so far.
> 
> When Isky said it should work sweet.....Those folks were here when I was a child.. .They should know wasssup....
> Time to move ahead......
> 
> Always use the new cam as a paper weight......  if it turns out to be a turd....


Those tight lobe centers are going to cause a lot of cylinder pressure down low where things like to detonate ( not a plus ). The exhaust valve closes sooner trapping more air fuel charge, not overlap, thats duration and that cam is also short in duration. The idol is going to be so choppy that you are going to have a hard time idling it under 1000 rpm. The wrong person at comp cams must have answered the phone. The cam in my truck is a custom roller, that I designed and had no problem getting it done. Maybe the supply chains are effecting the cam manufacturer also.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Never know.
All I know is the guy did not seem to be interested in even exploring anything to do with a custom....

I was totally open to suggestions.....BUY WHAT WE HAVE was his answer.

It is not a done deal yet....Plenty of time to work through details before dropping the hammer ($$$$) on anything...

The science of cam tech can/will drive you nutz.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Spent the better part of the last 30 minutes chatting with the cam dudes.
Opened up the subject of detonation with this engine combination and the cam grind that we are looking at.

Cold air really stomps out detonation.....as does humidity.
This same concept on an engine in the heat of summer probably would be an issue.
The cam boys are pretty sure that things will be fine with this combination..
May need to keep total ignition advance down a bit though.....??????

Premium fuel is certainly a fall back plan if need be.
We have 89 octane regular with 10% alcohol 
The premium is alcohol free....

Other than build it and see wassssup....I don't know what else can be done to peek into this subject and gain anything more....


----------



## m1west

Snowy Rivers said:


> Spent the better part of the last 30 minutes chatting with the cam dudes.
> Opened up the subject of detonation with this engine combination and the cam grind that we are looking at.
> 
> Cold air really stomps out detonation.....as does humidity.
> This same concept on an engine in the heat of summer probably would be an issue.
> The cam boys are pretty sure that things will be fine with this combination..
> May need to keep total ignition advance down a bit though.....??????
> 
> Premium fuel is certainly a fall back plan if need be.
> We have 89 octane regular with 10% alcohol
> The premium is alcohol free....
> 
> Other than build it and see wassssup....I don't know what else can be done to peek into this subject and gain anything more....


You could always retard the cam if it won't run on premium, but thats going to move your power band upward in rpm too


----------



## m1west

Really other than the sound you might be better off with a stock cam ( cheaper, better drivability ). Those old machines came with six cylinders making 150 hp and they did fine.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Yes they did have 6 cylinders in them.
The cats I drove the one season grooming had the 391 V8 (Mine had been fitted with the 391) the one 2100 I drove... the shop had retrofitted a 428 in it....They had issues in the spring with it overheating.
The stock radiator was not enough to cool the 428 well in warmer weather......

I think the worry about detonation at this time is not a big deal......
We will certainly find out.....

I would love to just grab an off the shelf cam....My concern is that the Vortec heads are designed for the low lift.
Trying to stuff a bigger cam in always requires cutting the valve guides down (Height) machining the spring seat to a larger diameter, new springs, new retainers.....This adds $$$$$$ to heads that given a cam with the lower lift will work sweeeeet.

I spoke earlier this afternoon with another cam grinder and we beat this subject all the way to hell and back.....this shop had the same general opinion as to the manners of the engine.....Decent sound, real punchy in the mid range with buttloads of torque  and fall off fast after 4200....
At this juncture...I'm in...rock and roll time......

We can paint it CAT YELLOW with crackle black valve covers.

Ah yes...the trials and tribulations of trying to hatch a mutt....

I have built a lot of engines over the years....but I will be honest...very honest....This mutt is a big guess.....Should be fine...KEY WORDS...SHOULD BE.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

I am still snooping around for info on the "FrankenCam"
I spoke to the boys at Bullet cams in Ms.
I explained the project and the ideas.
We discussed the cam specs.
The fella sifted through Cam masters they already have.

He can do a cam with 408/429 lift....213/222 @ .050" with 106 LSA
Price for the cam   $235

We discussed detonation, RPM, power band and such.....

Pretty much the same opinion on the manners of the engine.....

Their lead time is about a month out.

The fella was very attentive to what I had to talk about....and made several recommendations that will be useful..

We also discussed oil for the engine
Rotella T diesel oil 15-40 with a bottle of ZDDP additive....easy to get....Reasonably priced
Only use US made lifters from a couple outfits (Good quality) with good hardness on the lifter base.

*******Anyone building an engine with a standard flat tappet hydraulic cam...******

Be sure to use the ZDDP ADDITIVE in your oil during break in and at every oil change.

The newer cars/trucks mostly use roller cams now so they could reduce the zinc in the oil.....Zinc and other products raise hell with the catalytic converters....so it has been removed.

Some special racing oils have the ZDDP in them and are fine....
Without the zinc a cam can go away quickly....wiped out lobes and such.

And the saga continues.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

A couple items showed up...more to follow.
Flex plate bolts are here as are a set of Mahle brand rings in .030"OS 
A new pioneer flex plate should be here tomorrow.
A piece here and a piece there.....

I have have never had to gather so many small items for an engine build before....Usually have a complete to work with.
Still need the oil filter adapter, push rods, timing chain and sprockets......
Gaskets and such
Did grab a rear main seal the other day.

Going to use one of the one piece pan gasket....this looks like a sweet deal....
Need the oil pump, pump drive shaft
Vortec compatible 4bbl intake manifold.
NEW LARGE  CAP HIE distributor....
OMG
We need the Vortec style long reach spk plugs.
I think I will custom build the plug wires to fit exactly.... Go with the 8mm with the metal shields on the plug ends
The ready mades always seem to have one that's an inch too short and one that needs to be wrapped around the distributor 5 times to work

Once this FrankenMouse is done....then it will be time ti dig into the TH350 tranny and get it all spiffy.

I have not done a TH350 since the mid/late 80's.....The 700R4 came out and they were a real bag of worms.....

Going to set the tranny up as a select shift (Manual control)


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Not a great deal going on...
Getting a tad bit done on the engine....
 A very real need exists to be able to hold those VORTEC heads in the mill to drill the steam holes through the decks.

Sat down and  sketched up a couple brackets to bolt to the ends of the heads and allow the head to be adjusted to flat as well as a 30 degree angle.

Take a bit of machine work....very little materials other than what I had in the short stock rack.
A couple pillow block bearings, a couple short chunks of 1-1/2" shafting.

I looked into a head fixture designed for the task....ahhhhh nooooooooooooooooo...$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$....
Waste of $$$ to buy this type of tooling for a one time job ..(Or so)

With the holidays coming up.....time to get work done is sketchy....


----------



## mlang2005

cant you just rotate the mill head?


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Not really....The mill head does tilt, but not to the extent I need.

I want the fire deck facing up and parallel to the table.....One set of steam holes (4) are drilled at 90 degrees to the deck, and the other set (4) are drilled at 30 degrees.

I could make a little drill jig and do this job with a hand drill.....just a bit too sketchy though....

The procedure involves placing the head gasket on the head and marking where the steam holes are located... Between the First and second...second and third...third and fourth  cylinders where the bores a siamese'd 

The job is not hard, but one needs to be careful to NOT break the drill off in the head ....or miss the water jacket....

Piccy of the block shows the holes....Note...the white line on the upper hole....the steam hole is actually just below the line...

The line is pointing at a head bolt hole

I was not a fan of the 400 when it came out in 1970....The idea of the Siamesed cylinders seemed waaaaay too sketchy....but these engines did what they were designed to do.....Torque monsters....I owned a GMC pickup 4x4 with one...it was a great truck....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Freight is a tad slow with the holidays coming up and the weather.

Finally got the new Pioneer Flex plate for the 406 SBC today
Looks sweet...
So we have a flex plate and a set of factory bolts to fasten it to the crankshaft

Slowly the parts are stacking up....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Merry Christmas.
This past year has seen a lot of good things come to pass on the FrankenCat project.
It might seem slow to some....but we are heading in the direction I had envisioned pretty much from the begining.
Sure....there has been twists and turns along the way, change orders galore.....And this is expected when you try to do a roll your own...

Wishing all the folks a Great Christmas holiday.....and soon it will be 2022.....
Be safe....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Not much to report.
Weather has been wretched.....absolutely no way I'm trying to work outside..

Did fool with the Blazer body the other day....Noticed that the rear hatch lift cylinders were unhooked......
Ordered some new ones....
The stick laying in the back on the floor was a good hint that things needed attention......

Been beating off a case of this Covid crap.....
Just about done with that stuff....Pretty well back to normal now.....Still tire out a bit...

Looking forward to getting back to work on the cat.....

Be safe troops.


----------



## PJL

Wondered where you've been.  Glad you beat back the Rona.


----------



## Pontoon Princess




----------



## Snowy Rivers

I LIKE THE PURPLE.......

Yeah...The Rona is certainly no fun.......I had this crap back when it first came to town in early 20.

Was getting over it when I found the 2100......
This time was just annoying...more like a nasty cold......Sadly it takes about 3 weeks to beat it off and get back to par.

The weather has not been conducive to wanting to be outside or to do much.

The only thing we have been doing on a regular basis is "KEEPING THE HOME FIRES BURNING"

We heat the ranch house with several pellet stoves located though out and feed them ground up hazelnut shells.
We go get the shells in a large dumpster straight from the plant (Dry) and barrel the stuff up and store it in the barn.

Grind it up and then dump the stuff in the stoves.......

It is a cheap biomass fuel.....I am no tree hugger, but heating 2300 sq feet for about $150 for the season.....With extra left to start the next season   (The dumpster is 3 yard cap. $30 to fill it.

The labor is minimal....at least compared to hauling and stacking wood.

We don't have natural gas here.....Propane, oil or electric .....the house has an electric furnace  $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$......NO WAY
Pellets are priced waaaaay too high.

We have done the nut shell thing since 1991/92 .

So about all we have done these past few weeks is pack in shells to feed the stoves and vegetate trying to be rid of the Rona

WE rent the lower level of the house to a lovely lady.
She is all fully Vaxed....somebody at her work dragged the Rona in a passed it around her work.

So then our gal had the crud and shared it with us......

Here are some pix of yesterdays haul.
We generally make 4 shell hauls....Weather  has been just miserable wet with no let up.
We did a haul Wed. and then again yesterday.......We are full up now at around 50 barrels....

Yesssss...Nursing Rona and sitting by the warm fire.....

Thanks for the good thoughts troops.

With any luck I want to get back to work on the new engine for the 2100 soon

Some videos that may be of interest.
When I am not manufacturing snow cat stuff.....The stoves and related items get my attention .

Came home one night, stove off and house full of acrid smelling smoke....Electrical control in the stove had died and melted...
New control not available (Stove is 1993...same as house)

Screw it...built my own controller with way more safeties, fuses and protection than factory....Anything not right and the stove shuts off.....

The nut shell crusher  "Munchy"


















If you can't buy it.....MAKE IT
Shot of the inside of the new controller on the big stove (Last piccy on Right)

Having tools to build things with makes life a lot more fun...

The control modules in the panel are all rated at 20 amps and the max they see is about 1.5 amps fused at 2 amps

This is off the shelf heavy industrial stuff......not the cheap azz made overseas tiny circuit board crap.
Any issue can be diagnosed and a part replaced within a few minutes......Even at 2am with snow blowing sideways and me half asleep and not a happy camper....

All in a days work eh ????


JUST AN FYI

The Munchy can handle the material about as fast as you can scoop it in.
Going slow for the video.....

Munchy was hatched out of necessity when the plants all switched to half shell only from the outflow from the cracker.

Sketched up an idea and built it......
Its crude....but works well....


----------



## vintagebike

Leonardo da Vinci or Thomas Edison reincarnated.?


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Thanks.

Daddy trained me to be handy at just about everything......

Was a sad deal.....having to design and build a complete stove controller.

Luckily it was early spring when the one failed and the small stove carried us through to summer.

Had time to design, gather parts and get the box for the big stove built, tested and installed before the fall weather came on.

Then built a similar box for the little stove.
Repainted the living room and the stove just looked ...missing something....
Blue tape and paint...some lumber  and a bit of fooling about.....
Really spruced up the corner

Chupi the cat had to get in the act too.
I sort of copied a piccy I found on line advertising custom fire places.
The little "Wood box"  was made using a plastic tote as a template .....Was a fun project.
Did a similar treatment for the big stove.

Imagination is about 90% of this sort of stuff.

Not nearly as much fun as building snow cat parts.....but it needed to happen....

Old horse shoes from the stable...Clean, weld and paint.....Easy brackets for the mantle....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Hi troops.

Quick deal....My health has taken a real turn into the toilet....finishing the cat is just not gonna happen.
The cat is FOR SALE....
This thread pretty much tells the entire story of what has already been done on the machine.....
Everything I have for the project goes with it.....
The OC-12 IS ALL FRESH WITH NEW BEARINGS AND THE BANDS RELINED

PM ME and I will send my contact information.

Hey....It's been great fun.....


----------



## Pontoon Princess

truly sorry to hear,

sad that we, the snow cat community will not get to see you out with your snow cat at a gathering,

the journey is the best part of life's adventures,

I sincerely hope for the best, take care


----------



## Track Addict

Hope everything works out for you and you get better!

Post a link on the snowcat classifieds to get some more visibility.

Love the shell setup!


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Thank you so much

70 years on the clock has taken it's toll....
But the journey this far has been great


----------



## vintagebike

Thanks Snowy.  I've enjoyed the ride and the ridealong.


----------



## m1west

Ahh, I was looking forward to the adventure thread, after the build. Maybe if you sell it all of you can buy something running? Anyway like what others said, its been fun.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Thanks.

I will not get another cat.

Just gonna take care of a few things and just hang out..

Been a swell time though these past few years......


----------



## norscaner

Damm   Snowy..I really enjoyed following your threads. I wish you all the best.


----------



## Pontoon Princess

hope you are feeling the love, it is enough to melt a snowy river, the thread was epic and never ending we thought


----------



## Snowy Rivers

I appreciate all the good thoughts...
Sadly us old farts go along fine...then life comes up and smacks us.....

Not totally sure whats up yet....
I had the covid that started on Dec 29th and seems like it's gone...

Now there are other issues that can't be explained......
My gut feeling is that  cancer is back.

I had Kidney cancer in 2012 and had surgery.....

We shall see.

Thanks again so much for the loyal following of my project.
Possibility that one of our members may be getting the cat.

Not sure yet....so will not say more at this time.....
If it does happen the cat will be going to a great home....


----------



## vintagebike

Our Thiokol 2100b will surely benefit from your journey.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Well now....Thats cool.
I do hope much of what I did can benefit others....


----------



## vintagebike

Just a thought...keep us all going, pick any subject and just talk about in the 'not necessarily snowcats' section.  Just like Andy Rooney


----------



## GMoose

Hope you can still pass some of your knowledge along in this forum, it is always helpful and appreciated.  Keep us updated, we care. Best of luck, Gmoose.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Vintage....Will do

Thanks so much Moose
I will continue to frequent the forum.
Happy to offer advice if I can


----------



## PJL

Snowcat or not don't be a stranger.  You are always welcome here.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Don't worry.
I will stay in touch.......
Going to be checking with the Dr soon to see what we have going on....
The answers there will tell the story......


----------



## Pontoon Princess

for those thinking about buying SR project, here is a fabulous custom build, not complicated to build, the SR chassis would make a good platform to build from...

food for thought


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Sweet looking ride.....

Well so far there have been two scammers reply on craigs list and one of our members is thinking about it.

My cat would make one helluva machine when finished.....

Guess we will see what shakes.....


----------



## PJL

That KickerCat is awesome.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

There are some very sweet creations/Mods that have been done by folks over the years.......


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Nothing much going on.

Still kicking....Nothing happening on selling the cat.......

Just fed up with the low ball pukes that call up and want to offer $500 
OMG ......These people can't be serious.....


----------



## PJL

Glad you are still up and kicking.
That OC-12 alone is worth a large pile of coin.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

YESS INDEED
I was able to save a huge chunk of $$$ on the bearings.... I got New old stock off ebay...
Still, the reline on the bands was $300 and change.

Yeah....I am not going to give it away.
Somebody offers me $10K and it's theirs


----------



## Snowy Rivers

SOME GOOD NEWS   "I THINK"

Seems that the worst of my heath issues was/is/were related to that stinking Covid crud I had back in January
 Predicting what all types of issues will happen are tough at best.
Feeling much better....(Subjective)
The symptoms come and go as the time passes.....but they can affect a lot more than just the respiratory system.
Anyone recovering from Covid may experience gut issues among other things that can be pretty nasty...

I lost 15 pounds with the Rona.....Has stabilized now....Actually did not hurt a thing to shed the extra baggage....

Still no serious inquiries on the cat.
There may be hope yet of getting back to work on it come spring time.
The worst fears were that cancer had returned....(Had a bout with that crap in 2012) 
But it now seems the Rona is/was the culprit.....

Anyway....Don't count me out just yet..

Some days I get excited and want to get out and go after things...other days can be tough to get enthused about much at all....
Still....at 70 ya just never know......

This morning....sitting here planning the process to get the S10 BLAZER body off the frame and then the process of mounting it on the cat.
The front mounts will fit what is already done...

With excitement returning....it is a pleasant relief from the doom and gloom that has been persistent for the past month.
Doctors simply do not know near enough about this virus to know what all can/will happen.

Take care troops....


----------



## norscaner

Great to hear  Snowy  get well soon and back out to the shop


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Thank you.

When the desire to do stuff returns....it is a good sign....

I will be very honest....at my age, when the normal routine of things gets loused up....it takes quite a while to get back up on the step......


----------



## Puckle

That's good news Snowy, hope you find renewed enthusiasm to crack on with the frankencat!


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Puckle
Thank you very much for the kind words.

If this morning is any indication of things....we are on the mend.

My intention are to keep on the project at this time.

If this had turned out to be cancer the attitude would be far different.

Having been down that road before.....not a pretty path to traverse......

Today we are getting the nut shell supply for the stoves stocked back up (Grind a couple barrel fulls) big rain coming by tonight through the week.

We have had snow on the ground this past week....and temps down near 15 F at night.
Two weeks ago we had 65 F and sunny.

Winters last gasp I guess
Spring will give time to get back into the grooves

I want to get the front clip off the S10 and then get after the body mounts.
This time around the front fenders and hood are gonna stay....Plan is to do a tilt front end.... Cut the fenders on a 45 degree angle to allow the area at the cowl to all fasten up and the hood, fenders and core support to tilt open for engine access..

Earlier in the fall I did some looking at a few S10 Blazers that folks had done the tilt front ends......Pretty easy....


Be safe


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

I've very glad the medical issues that caused you to list your Astro Van project for sale may be behind you, and you can hopefully get back to the project. That is truly encouraging news. 

I think maybe it's a little poetic justice that the greedy vultures that wanted to pick up an incredibly well done project for pennies on the dollar missed out on the opportunity. Could have bought it at a more than reasonable price, but no... they wanted it for almost nothing. 

Genuinely happy for you SR....


----------



## m1west

Yes I had the Rona last summer ( delta ) 2 months before feeling normal. Welcome back


----------



## Snowy Rivers

M1
YES....Nasty stuff....
Even now some of my fav snacks taste like crap.

My Daughter had it last summer late and still has some things that taste funny.
She lost a bunch of hair too.
The respiratory part was not that bad....more like an annoying cold....Then things got hinky....

My daughters mother in l;aw had it a year ago at this time.
She was what they thought OVER IT
She had a massive stroke and eventually died.

I would love to send this crap back to whence it came from along with something very nasty....

AND....I am sick and tired of the damned face diapers.....We will be losing them in a couple weeks....

Blackfoot
For sure.....for sure.
If I can enjoy driving it just once....I will be really happy.


----------



## vintagebike

Just make sure you have your rig ready by February 2023.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Yeah.....I will keep that in mind
Biggest issue is going to be hauling it.....11'-4" wide.....(Full width 2100 frame with 43" tracks)


----------



## KickerM

Holy Smokes! I fall off the forums for a month and I almost missed ya For good! Glad its not so!!! Great to hear your back and no worries on the hauling just hang off the excess on the passenger side…No one will know!!! Lol


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Thanks Kicker
Between the time on the clock and this damned Rona....Definitely kicked my Azz.

I am hanging in there....
Still have days that suck....

Yeah....I think on a long haul...somebody gonna notice all the extra cat parts hanging off in the weeds  

I had originally thought of shortening up axles and narrowing the frame......But decided to just narrow the tracks up from 57" wide to 43".....

This allows using the standard 43" grousers....just not staggering them.....

Best haul plan would be to drop the tracks....roll them up and sit them on the trailer up front.

Our goose neck trailer is 102" wide...the cat is 96" at the outside of the guide tires.....

The only issue would be getting the tracks on and off the trailer......At present we don't have a winch on the trailer.

A hoist would help too.

We are a long way from needing to worry about such things...

But the Big Tex trailer is certainly up to the task.
We have had some huge loads on that trailer in past years ...for sure.

The cat does not weigh much...maybe 7000-8000 pounds, just takes up a lot of space is all....


----------



## KickerM

They make nice trailers!  We have a 2008 28’ + 5’ x 102” Hillsboro and it has been great! might of accidentally hauled a 48,000# load on it once…got the scale ticket to prove my stupidity but the trailers got a lot of miles on it and its still going strong! Surprisingly enough getting a wide load permit is easy in most states and can be done online; putting tracks on and off is not…. and a bonus if the tracks are on the cat and you just happen to slide of the side of a mountain, you can drive the cat off the trailer and pull you up said Mountain; I may have personal experience on this…..


----------



## PJL

Yeah, been there done that too.  You're not stuck if you can extract yourself with the equipment on hand.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

I will pass on the "Slide off the road thing"

When we got the Big Tex we needed to haul an M211 army 6x6 truck.

Nobody had a trailer to rent that was big enough....

Found the one we have up in Washington....so we bought it.....

It gets used for hay and other hauls around here too....

The 25/5 with the full width ramps is sweet.
We can run just about anything on the trailer....From the Mahindra 22 horse 4x4 up to a full sized 4x4 or the 6x6  truck..

The full width ramps are sweet.
The only other trailer for sale at that time was a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG ONE....35 Foot IIRC


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Been thinking more about the cat engine.
Block is nearly ready to go.....
I installed the brass soft plugs in the block some time ago, as well as the oil gallery  plugs (1/4" pipe threaded plugs) all the way...even the front behind the cam sprocket which normally use 1/2" cup plugs  THAT HAVE BEEN KNOWN TO POP OUT.

I had not replaced the one internal cup plug in the main oil gallery off the pump that feeds to the filter and then the oiling system.

This plug is not always known by a lot of folks.....As such it could be forgotten if it has been removed for cleaning.

Normally on these engine I don't touch it (Is driven out withe a rod down the oil sender hole on top) But this nasty dirty old GRUNGY 400 block was so dirty I wanted everything accessible while the block was in the tank getting cleaned.

The long sojourn between last fall and when things are likely to get moving again left this bad boy with that plug NOT INSTALLED...

Excitement to move ahead could gave saw this plug forgotten.....Bad deal.....Oil filter does not get oil flow and the pressure can be affected too.

Decided to head down to the shop and GITTERDONE.

Here is a cutaway piccy of the area that shows exactly where that little plug sits.

Been looking at camshaft specs and have become quite interested in the cam that is used on the Chevy crate 350/330 HO

That crate engine uses Vortec heads and the cam works fine on stock Vortec heads.

Should be a great choice for the application.......

I want a nice sounding engine that speaks with authority....but we do not need a wild azz cam that shakes the door handles off.

Also the stock Vortec heads will only handle .475" lift max in stock configuration.

The valve guides must be shortened and different springs used to go above the .475" spec...

The Vortec heads flow great with a cam in the stock range.

I need a flat tappet hydraulic cam for the 400.....No need to pop the coin for roller cam and lifters.......

The 350/330 HO cam has a lift of .435" intake and .460" exhaust with a duration of 212 and 222 degrees.


----------



## it's all about downhill

Wow was I behind. Haven't looked for a LOOONG time. Just to catch up I started back at page 41. With the fuel discussion, I was going to comment that Sportsman Air Park sells AV gas for a reasonable price, just drive on in and park by the fuel truck, they'll fill whatever you want. 100 octane and never goes bad (I have a 5 gal. can with about 1 gal in it, probably 35 years old...no light ends, but clear with no bad smell or sediments. ( I keep it just for fun now.)) I run AV in everything but road cars. Haven't drained fuel for off season (lawnmower, Chain saws, weed eaters, etc, etc. (There are a lot of etc's) no problems )

Then I saw that the CCP got you. So glad the mend has welcomed you back to life. Sometimes in life we are at a stage where we just say "Well this is the way it's going to be." That month after Mt. St. Hellens blew up and it rained ash. I cleaned out my gutters and was not interested in saving ANY of it. THen two years ago the entire valley was covered in smoke for Sept and Oct. I had to wear a mask in my semi-truck on I-5. But when I look back it reminds me of the Bible verse "It came to pass..." It came, then it passed, now it's OK.

Then the third thing I saw was your shell grinder.  Several years ago Columbia Empire had a hammer mill to grind them to spread back in the orchard. It wore the screens out fast (I'm thinking better than walnut shells for US cleaning)  PM me if you want my contact up there. The other option is - there was one variety of pellet stove that had an auger strong enough to break the shells when they tried to bind it up. Maybe a little of your overkill engineering could produce the same result and save the time of grinding.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Hi there Down Hill...

Yeah .I have grabbed AV gas at the air park in Newberg before.
I get my fuel at the Card lock just across Hwy 219 ...They offer the non alky premium...I try to use that in my Seasonal tools.

The Gen set, weed whackers and other stuff.

The shells are certainly popular with the landscapers .....Does not break down as quick as bark dust does.

We are running Whitfield stoves (1990'S VINTAGE)  These have good heavy augers and handle the shells fine.

WE used to get shells from a processor real close to us....they changed management and only sell to outfits that can take semi truck quantity now.....

All the processors have pretty much changed over to equipment that leaves the shells as 1/2 shell configuration.....Tough to use..

I built a machine we call "Munchy" that smashes the stuff into stuff about the size of the average persons little finger nail.....or a little bigger.....
Works fabulous.....
We run the stuff through munchy and then barrel it up to keep it dry until needed.

So nice to have machine tools to make stuff....Snow cat parts, nut shell grinders, dirt bike parts for the grand kids.....Always something to make or fix.

As far as that damned Rona stuff,,,,,,I am still battling some lingering symptoms that come and go......The worst of the thing was little worse than a nasty cold.....The stuff seemed to get better, then the taste/smell went away....then gut issues, and these have been on and off for over a month.......Arrrrrrrgh.

Have a good day, then feel like crap for several days.....

Makes wanting to get to work on the cat much harder.....

Been going over my list of NEEDED parts for the new engine.

I have never built an engine 1 piece at a time before....always have had a complete unit to start with.

This build has been a piece at a time.
I bought a bare 400 Chevy small block.
Then scared up a nice stock crank
Found a complete 1998 VORTEC 350 from a pickup....Saved the heads and the serpentine front drive equipment off that unit.
Found a complete set of stock 400 con rods..
Bought new .030 OS pistons and rings.
Bought a new 168 tooth flex plate
Found a good set of flex plate to crank bolts
New timing cover and pan bolts
Using the valve covers off the Vortec 350
All the accessories off the vortec are usable
A new 6 quart gated oil pan.
Vibration dampener for the 400 crank came with the crank
Front serpentine crank pulley from the Vortec fits the 400 dampener.....
Bought new exhaust manifolds
The rockers off the Vortec are all good.
Head bolts are good....These are not TTY bolts....Std grade 8
****************************************
Still need several small items.
Push rods (Standard length)
Fuel pump rod
Fuel pump mounting plate and hardware
Fuel pump
Vortec intake manifold to work with a 4 barrel carb.
Large cap HEI distributor
Plug wires
Spark plugs that fit the Vortec heads (These are different than older plugs...long reach type)
Timing chain/sprockets
I keep finding little tid bits to add to the list as we go along.......

So many little bits and pieces that are usually on a complete engine that are simply cleaned up and reused that need to be scared up on this rodeo..

I have narrowed the cam shaft choice down to a couple possibilities.....Still thinking about this .....Stock NON MODIFIED Vortec heads are good for a max of .476" lift    This fact limits cam choices a lot.

My heads are in good shape....I do not want to spend $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to cut the valve guides down and change the springs...Yada yada yada .....The engine is not going to be a screamer....4500 RPM MAX ....Stock Vortec parts can easily deal with the job at hand here.......

I still need to set up the Vortec heads and locate and drill the "Steam holes" between the cylinders (Peculiar to the 400 small block that has siamese cylinders)

Ah yess.....fun stuff.......

Between getting the engine together and stripping the 91 S10 Blazer body off the frame and fitting it up on the cat.
Lots of work to do.


We have pretty much all the hard parts to build the tracks.

The one original track that I got last summer (still all together) has gen 2 tire guides and the parts look good.
This track has the heavy duty lacers (Hinges) and the track has had a section replaced and a second set of hinges added.

The plan is to narrow thew tracks up to 44" wide and this will allow using the standard 2100 grousers (Some bolt holes will need to be redrilled)   using two 12" belts....The hinges from the 4 belt tracks can be modified to give us enough heavy hinges for both tracks........

I do have a complete set of new Flexco 550 hinges.....But the heavy duty parts that are on the used track are much beefier....

Track drive sprockets are usable to get us to a test drive....but will eventually need to be recovered with new urethane...


Lots of work to do......


----------



## Thefatsquatch

Snowy Rivers said:


> Yeah.....I will keep that in mind
> Biggest issue is going to be hauling it.....11'-4" wide.....(Full width 2100 frame with 43" tracks)


Lean it off the right side of the trailer, haul at night, go like hell. lol  that's my motto so far.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

SIDESWIPE A ROW OF MAILBOXES


----------



## Snowy Rivers

It's been a soggy spring around here.....6" of snow on April 11th and rain..rain...rain.

We are at almost 4" of rain for May now.....COLD AND WET.
Not much going on with the cat...at least outside....

We were at a garage sale Friday and I scored a set of electric (Heated) side view  mirrors off a 2004 Dodge 2500 4x4
Near new....$10 for the pair

These will be sweet on the cat ...mounted on the side upright for the overhead light bar/strobes

One thing I am looking for is a pair of the steering control  valves for the 2100 
My parts/service manual lists them but so far I have not come across any of these bad boys....

I had thought about using the master cylinder setup as used on the Spryte.....The bigger tracks and the heavier chassis really needs the full hydraulic setup to keep the bands  in good order....(Bands on or off...not slipping)

Any info on a set of these controls would be sweet.....

YESSSSS
I have decided to head way from the air controls and go back to hydraulics.

The power steering pump on the engine can handle the job quite nicely.....

I decided to use the Steering wheel and related equipment to activate the control valves....
A very simple design to mount a bracket to allow a minimal turn of the wheel to activate the steering valves.....

Again.....looking for a pair of these valves......Don't need the levers...


As far as braking goes.....Already have most of whats needed to mount a pair of outboard disc brakes on the track drive sprockets.....


The factory brake master booster can readily accept a single master cylinder to run the brakes.

The change orders that go with this thing never stop.....Keeps life interesting that way.

Actually....Using the factory steering valves just make life far easier....

The other option was two electric valves and the related plumbing......

The OEM set up allows easy adjustment of the pressure at the band apply servo's (400psi) and life will be good.....

Looking forward to getting back to work on the project.

First activity when the weather gets better will be to get the body off the S10 blazer and strip it down....Then sell the chassis.
As far as I know the Blazer body will mount right up to the new mounts I built for the standard pickup cab....


And so it goes....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

I did a buttload of calling around today and finally scored a set of the factory 2100 Steering actuators.

They are used....but we shall see what sort of shape they are in.
The units are off the cat and the fittings are open.....(NOT GOOD)  But if the innards are not rusted they may well be easily repaired with a seal kit.....

MICO was cast into the master cylinders that came off the machine.....So I called Mico and rattled their cage....
The fella I spoke with was quite nice....But without a part number he was lost.....They do have new stuff.....But the new parts are designed to be used with other components.

So we shall see what shakes out with these used valves....

If they are usable/repairable then the plan should work sweet....

I will be able to use the stock slave cylinders on the OC12.....albeit probably not the ones that were on it....The ones that were on it were pretty skanky....


Has anyone here worked on the steering controls on a 2100 ??????

They look simple enough...


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Got the good news.

The steering actuators are on their way...be here Tuesday.
I do hope they are in good shape inside.

These were made by MICO.,....Sadly these are no longer made NEW
BUTTTTTTTTTT...The repair kits are available at $45 per kit...

First order of Bizzzz will be to disassemble them and hopefully find good clean usable bores.....If they are all rusty.....YUCK....

We shall see..


----------



## sno-drifter

Brake Systems Inc north of Sandy 2221 ne Hoyt 503-236-2116 has handled Mico for years and may still have NOS parts.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Sweeeeeet.
I have used them in the past for several items.

I will give them a call

Thanks much....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Called up brake systems in Portland.....Excellent customer service....but no info at this late date...

I chanced a second call to Mico and got hold of an engineer.....who was very helpful.
This time I got a copy of a real Blue Print......

So......Fast reverse to a few days ago.
I received a pair of the actuators from a fella in Cali.   
These look nice....So I took one apart and they were in good shape....Just need new seals....Sweeeeet.
Fast forward to yesterday
The part I have is a buttload different than the deign from Mico   (Now ZF Mico) 

I am looking at the print while I have the engineer on the phone.... Mico only made the parts that he sent me a print for.
A bunch of difference......
It would seem that the early 2100 had an actuator made by another outfit.....

Looking at the parts book I have it shows a "Pressure limiter" at the band operating cylinder.....
The Mico part has a pressure limiting valve inside the unit.....There were 3 different part numbers for these actuators
03-460-080     03-460-082    03-460-084  (Mico numbers)  A seal kit # 02-400-040 is still available

The unit shown has all the components assembled from the bottom......
THE OLDER UNIT can be identified by a conical shaped spring under the rubber boot that is secured by a snap ring..
Also the older unit has a small sintered vent on one side near the bottom.......
The older units applied full line pressure to the rear pf the cat...then the pressure limiter (Likely adjustable) was used to set the pressure to 400 psi nominal....

The info I got yesterday mentioned that one of the part numbers was a 500 psi setting.... (Internal spring)

Also the older units deliver the oil to the diify out the bottom of the actuator...The newer version (Mico) delivers oil out the upper most port and the bottom port goes back to the tank....

My book definitely shows the bottom port being connected to the cylinder on the OC12..

I am still curious about when the changes were made and why......
Thiokol was good about using off the shelf parts.

The newer actuators (Mico) were made for Thiokol.......
I have never seen a Spryte or other smaller cat with Power assist steering.
These parts had to be solely for the 2100.....
The later cats like the 3700 were Hydrostatic drive.....

Anyone that can add anything to this info....Please feel free to jump in....

So....I am sending the old style units back to Cali.....

And the saga continues..


----------



## Snowy Rivers

The hydraulic actuators have run into a big snag.
Mico no longer has any parts or and data on the original application.

They do carry the O rings for the late style.

Finding any of these is likely a lost cause......
Decided to look at a 4/2 way cam/plunger actuated style valve.
Parker makes these.....many months out on a special order....$1000 each...plus shipping.

Screw this.
Decided to take another look at the idea of using air (My original plan)

I had purchased a pair of the Original type master cylinders that were/are used on the Spryte with the OC12
I dug those out and measured the stroke...About 1.5"
1 inch bore
There is no room in the drivers area of the S10 Blazer to mount them and be able to crawl into the seat.

Another idea came to mind....Remote mount the cylinders and use a pair of Type 9 air brake chambers to actuate the master cylinders.

Use the stock type cylinders on the OC12 and run regular brake line with flexible connections (Hose) at each end.

I already have the air pump and the air control valves.....

These parts are easy to get and available in many places locally.

I am not at all interested in the hard to get...long lead time stuff that cost 3 fortunes....

A basic air over oil system......
The cylinders for the  OC12 are easy to get too....
The master cylinders are the same as the ones used on the early Ford Econoline vans
Any 1" bore master cylinder can be adapted....

This steering thing has been an area that I have visited many times in past months or so.....Gotta make it easy to get parts and fix if need be


----------



## Track Addict

Time to go back to Thiokol roots and build a custom cab utilizing the OEM functionality and base.

Seems like the best path to Sno!


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Well....not sure about too much any more.
Thiokol made a good machine for sure.

Sadly so much of the stuff that was used is simply not available at this late date.
The current plan with the S10 4 door will be fine.
Everything needed is there....Cab comforts, dash with instruments, power windows, HVAC system, all the wiring to run the engine, complete exterior lighting system.   All turn key

The small stumbling block with the steering control is well on the way to being solved.

Watching the rain come down AGAIN
Spent time yesterday and this morning doing the math on the steering equipment.
Using the standard OC-12 steering cylinders is definitely on the table now and not likely to leave.....This will keep the OC-12 all stock (Other than the improvements I made to the thrust washers and such)
The air over oil design will work sweet to activate the master cylinders....
Stock steering wheel can activate a pair of air valves to control the master cylinders.....  Neat and clean install.....
I do not want to end up with something that will be a parts orphan by using the old steering parts...

The master cylinder mounting bracket can be put wherever it will fit.....Likely under the hood above the engine....Keeping the air chambers warm and dry.

All the rest is a piece of cake......Simple inexpensive parts that are available at any Napa store  (Almost)

The hydraulic control idea was not bad....Just the cost of one valve at $1000 and a 36 week lead time....Nope.


----------



## m1west

Im with track addict, Your simplest and easiest path to success is build  a tube and aluminum sheet cab similar to OEM and the steering as intended.


----------



## vintagebike

Looks  to me like Snowy enjoys the “design and build” part as much or maybe a bit more than the “Use it” part. Henry Ford raced his first real “Ford” car in competition only one time.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

The design work is the most time consuming......Especially if you don't want to do it over a few times.

C'mon guys....I have the complete S10 4 door sitting close to the cat...Simply unbolt the body, sit it on where the single cab is now and hook up the wires to the engine....

Why do I want to start all over  with fresh materials and have to build every system ????

Ah yess
The joy of projects....


----------



## m1west

Snowy Rivers said:


> The design work is the most time consuming......Especially if you don't want to do it over a few times.
> 
> C'mon guys....I have the complete S10 4 door sitting close to the cat...Simply unbolt the body, sit it on where the single cab is now and hook up the wires to the engine....
> 
> Why do I want to start all over  with fresh materials and have to build every system ????
> 
> Ah yess
> The joy of projects....


That presents problems too, your going to spend just as much time mounting the cab, then the floor pans are going to stop you from accesses anything to do repairs or maintenance. Mig, saw, 1x1 tube some aluminum sheet and rivets and the cab could be built in a week or two with drop in floor panels. Hardest part will be windows. Just do it , you know it the best thing.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

I understand what you are saying.
The only needed access area is over the rear diffy.....Cut nice access hole in the floor and add clips to mount the piece back in.
The front end (Fenders and hood) Tilt forward
The engine has full access.
The S10 Blazer body will attach to the current mounts I made for the standard S10 pickup cab....Two more mounts to catch the rear and center mounts....

I own the body....Chassis is sold....Body cost me nothing at this point.

The only item that will be a problem is the tranny....What cat tranny is not a job coming out.

This one,.....Remove the body...Lift the tranny out of the tub.......

Fuel tanks are already here....They mount in the Rear wheel house openings....Each side....20 gallons each side.

Starting from scratch will add a lot of cost.
I have zero $$ in the Blazer at this point...

Everything is there.
I will need a bit of material to build the body mounts for the center and rear.....

Interior need a good cleaning.....But everything works..
Electric windows work, Dash gauges all work, exterior lighting works.......The engine is trash....But the fresh 400 small block is sitting in the shop.

My only issue was getting the steering wrangled out.
The hydraulics would be sweet....But not for the costs and the long lead times.
The entire plan has been to keep it simple...use as much off the shelf parts as possible THAT CAN BE replaced easily and at low cost.....

The air steering is all figured out now (Spent yesterday and this morning sorting out the parts and sourcing the stuff) 
If I can't find the parts easily....Its not going in the mix.
The air components are all class 7 or 8 truck stuff.....The master cylinders for the steering are a common 1-1/2" single type cylinder.....These have a 5 cubic inch per stroke fluid delivery.

The OC-12 slaves are 2.98 Cubic inch cylinders.
Two type 12 air brake chambers can run the master cylinders and push the slaves through their complete 3/4" stroke without running out of travel.
The original master cylinders used on the Spryte and others were 1 inch bore....These are fine if the cylinders can be pumped (Manual lever)

I want the air chambers to be able to operate without wasting a lot of extra air....
Type 12 chambers are readily available for about $35 each..(A new diaphragm can be swapped in with a couple wrenches in a few minutes in the brush...Cheap too.

The entire steering cylinder package can be mounted in the rear cargo area.....Its warm, no freezing the air system.
Two tanks can mount there too.
Two micro switches mounted to the original steering shaft (Connected to the factory steering wheel ) to trigger the air valves to activate the master cylinders that control the steering slaves.

Short hose runs from the master cylinders to the OC-12 using through hull fittings.....

Very simple to put this together.....

The original Thiokol 2100 lashup was a mess....Expensive to duplicate....and nearly impossible to find some parts.

Everything that may need fixing on the S10 Blazer is easy to find and cheap....

More aluminum road wheels are in the offing.
3 coming my way....They all lost a bearing and need to have the bores cleaned up and sleeved.....
Good tires too....

This winter has seen a lot of hours spent sorting out the pile of little issues......Now that the steering has been solved....Good to go...As soon as the weather stops raining....


----------



## m1west

Snowy Rivers said:


> I understand what you are saying.
> The only needed access area is over the rear diffy.....Cut nice access hole in the floor and add clips to mount the piece back in.
> The front end (Fenders and hood) Tilt forward
> The engine has full access.
> The S10 Blazer body will attach to the current mounts I made for the standard S10 pickup cab....Two more mounts to catch the rear and center mounts....
> 
> I own the body....Chassis is sold....Body cost me nothing at this point.
> 
> The only item that will be a problem is the tranny....What cat tranny is not a job coming out.
> 
> This one,.....Remove the body...Lift the tranny out of the tub.......
> 
> Fuel tanks are already here....They mount in the Rear wheel house openings....Each side....20 gallons each side.
> 
> Starting from scratch will add a lot of cost.
> I have zero $$ in the Blazer at this point...
> 
> Everything is there.
> I will need a bit of material to build the body mounts for the center and rear.....
> 
> Interior need a good cleaning.....But everything works..
> Electric windows work, Dash gauges all work, exterior lighting works.......The engine is trash....But the fresh 400 small block is sitting in the shop.
> 
> My only issue was getting the steering wrangled out.
> The hydraulics would be sweet....But not for the costs and the long lead times.
> The entire plan has been to keep it simple...use as much off the shelf parts as possible THAT CAN BE replaced easily and at low cost.....
> 
> The air steering is all figured out now (Spent yesterday and this morning sorting out the parts and sourcing the stuff)
> If I can't find the parts easily....Its not going in the mix.
> The air components are all class 7 or 8 truck stuff.....The master cylinders for the steering are a common 1-1/2" single type cylinder.....These have a 5 cubic inch per stroke fluid delivery.
> 
> The OC-12 slaves are 2.98 Cubic inch cylinders.
> Two type 12 air brake chambers can run the master cylinders and push the slaves through their complete 3/4" stroke without running out of travel.
> The original master cylinders used on the Spryte and others were 1 inch bore....These are fine if the cylinders can be pumped (Manual lever)
> 
> I want the air chambers to be able to operate without wasting a lot of extra air....
> Type 12 chambers are readily available for about $35 each..(A new diaphragm can be swapped in with a couple wrenches in a few minutes in the brush...Cheap too.
> 
> The entire steering cylinder package can be mounted in the rear cargo area.....Its warm, no freezing the air system.
> Two tanks can mount there too.
> Two micro switches mounted to the original steering shaft (Connected to the factory steering wheel ) to trigger the air valves to activate the master cylinders that control the steering slaves.
> 
> Short hose runs from the master cylinders to the OC-12 using through hull fittings.....
> 
> Very simple to put this together.....
> 
> The original Thiokol 2100 lashup was a mess....Expensive to duplicate....and nearly impossible to find some parts.
> 
> Everything that may need fixing on the S10 Blazer is easy to find and cheap....
> 
> More aluminum road wheels are in the offing.
> 3 coming my way....They all lost a bearing and need to have the bores cleaned up and sleeved.....
> Good tires too....
> 
> This winter has seen a lot of hours spent sorting out the pile of little issues......Now that the steering has been solved....Good to go...As soon as the weather stops raining....


The factory steering is quite mechanical and can be very labor intensive if you have to make tight corners a lot. Somewhere on here I saw a conversion to power steering for the Thickols, I believe it was a conversation between Blackfoot and Mountain outdoors a few years ago.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Yes it is....

The Spryte and Imps used a manual lever type operating the master cylinders.
The 2100 was a power steering.
The steering  "Actuators" were just a valve with a pressure relief that fed 400 PSI to the slaves on the OC-12
The 2100 cats had at a minimum 57" tracks and there were wider ones as well...up to 65" wide.

Shoving a blade, pulling a drag and hauling the big tracks was tough on the bands in the 2100..

When I ran a 2100 grooming for one season at the snow park....The 2100's were always getting bands replaced....
Two sets per season was not out of the question.

I am narrowing my tracks up to 43" ( One grouser width and not off set to 57")
No blade or other crap hanging on the back....

Still the power steering is a PITA.
The actuators were made by Mico (BRAKE LOCK FOLKS) and are no longer serviced.
The soft seals are still available, but the springs and the specs were long ago discontinued....Nothing available.

A pair of 4/2 way hydraulic valves can be used in place of the original actuators......Parker is the best choice for a quality part..
 I was quoted $1000 each plus freight and 36 week lead time...Need a spare ??? same deal.
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much $$$ to sink into only such a small part of the equation .....

Going to go with air over oil set up with two easy to get 1-1/2" master cylinders and run them with two air brake chambers and plumb these to the original OC-12 slaves....

Very easy to do, easy to get the parts.....and the stuff is cheap too......All major auto parts stores can get these....Or order them online
For about half (or less) the cost of one of the hydraulic valves I can completely do the steering system with parts that are readily available....

This set up will deliver a good reliable 400 psi oil pressure to the slaves.
Slipping the bands kills them quickly......

Thiokol, DMC, LMC went away from the OC-12 on the big cats and went to the Hydrostatic set up.....Far more reliable, but very spendy when they do go away... When the hydro pumps and drive motors go away.....$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$...OMG
I have rebuilt the swash pumps and motors in a couple skid steers......Not hard....just $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ is all.

The OC-12 can be reliable....Just has some areas that need some loving...

The thrust washers between the drums and the main case need to be replaced with REAL thrust washers and not thin shims.
The same for the inner thrust washers in the compensating case.

The washers between the outer pinion gears were soft steel.

The spot faced my case and added hardened washers.....

The crap washers wear out, shed pieces and then the junk goes through the R&P AND THEN BEARING....BOOM...A BEARING goes away (Explodes) and the things look like what the Cootenay Cruiser posted recently on his 2100C

These boxes are metal chewing monsters and unless care is taken to eliminate the root source of all the crap....They will fail.
Magnetic drain plugs in the main and drop boxes.....Change the oil regularly....if metal shows up....Box needs to come apart and the source found and fixed.....

The planetary gears, the drums and the R&P are good stuff....Just the overlooked stuff that wears can kill these..
My thread shows the machine work I did to fix the diffy.

Will it solve all the issues...????????????????????/ I hope it does.....The bands, if let go can wear to the point that they start chewing the drums up......Metal junk will ruin the box and if a large chunk hits a bearing   BANG....BALL BEARINGS CAN GO THROUGH THE DROP GEARS AND THE R&P

Massive carnage ......

GOOD TUCKER DOES NOT HAVE THESE ISSUE....BUT HAVE OTHER PROBLEMS....

Toys are expensive.....run them hard...more expensive....then the


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Indeed.

The engineering is the time consuming part.
Sorting out all the math to come up with the right size mater cylinders to work with the Slaves on the OC-12
To get the needed amount of fluid displacement in one push on the master cylinder that can....(1) totally fill the slave on the OC-12 without multiple pumps.
(2) Getting the needed pressure at the 0C-12 SLAVES (400 PSI NOMINAL) with the ability to vary it up or down.

The OC-12 SLAVES are 2-1/4" diameter with a 3/4" total travel from collapsed to fully extended to the snap ring.
ABOUT 2.98 CU IN VOLUME

To get a master cylinder that can deliver the needed juice put the choices in a narrow area of available cylinders
The M661 Dorman has a 1-1/2" bore and a 2-1/2" stroke   (A touch over 4 cu in)  Plenty to spare
A type 20 air brake chamber has a max travel of 2-1/4"  and at 35 psi it will give us the 400 psi at the slaves

At 2 inches of travel yields 3.5 cu in of fluid

So we have plenty of room to spare and when the bands are adjusted where they should be the travel will be much less.

Finding a compatible cylinder THAT IS READILY AVAILABLE took a bit of snooping.
Readily available with repair parts too.
AND THEN TO BE AFFORDABLE.....

My fave shopping spot  EBAY. $59 each  with free shipping....
Got a pair coming.....   

Al the air parts are HD truck stuff and readily available.....


----------



## m1west

Snowy Rivers said:


> Yes it is....
> 
> The Spryte and Imps used a manual lever type operating the master cylinders.
> The 2100 was a power steering.
> The steering  "Actuators" were just a valve with a pressure relief that fed 400 PSI to the slaves on the OC-12
> The 2100 cats had at a minimum 57" tracks and there were wider ones as well...up to 65" wide.
> 
> Shoving a blade, pulling a drag and hauling the big tracks was tough on the bands in the 2100..
> 
> When I ran a 2100 grooming for one season at the snow park....The 2100's were always getting bands replaced....
> Two sets per season was not out of the question.
> 
> I am narrowing my tracks up to 43" ( One grouser width and not off set to 57")
> No blade or other crap hanging on the back....
> 
> Still the power steering is a PITA.
> The actuators were made by Mico (BRAKE LOCK FOLKS) and are no longer serviced.
> The soft seals are still available, but the springs and the specs were long ago discontinued....Nothing available.
> 
> A pair of 4/2 way hydraulic valves can be used in place of the original actuators......Parker is the best choice for a quality part..
> I was quoted $1000 each plus freight and 36 week lead time...Need a spare ??? same deal.
> Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much $$$ to sink into only such a small part of the equation .....
> 
> Going to go with air over oil set up with two easy to get 1-1/2" master cylinders and run them with two air brake chambers and plumb these to the original OC-12 slaves....
> 
> Very easy to do, easy to get the parts.....and the stuff is cheap too......All major auto parts stores can get these....Or order them online
> For about half (or less) the cost of one of the hydraulic valves I can completely do the steering system with parts that are readily available....
> 
> This set up will deliver a good reliable 400 psi oil pressure to the slaves.
> Slipping the bands kills them quickly......
> 
> Thiokol, DMC, LMC went away from the OC-12 on the big cats and went to the Hydrostatic set up.....Far more reliable, but very spendy when they do go away... When the hydro pumps and drive motors go away.....$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$...OMG
> I have rebuilt the swash pumps and motors in a couple skid steers......Not hard....just $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ is all.
> 
> The OC-12 can be reliable....Just has some areas that need some loving...
> 
> The thrust washers between the drums and the main case need to be replaced with REAL thrust washers and not thin shims.
> The same for the inner thrust washers in the compensating case.
> 
> The washers between the outer pinion gears were soft steel.
> 
> The spot faced my case and added hardened washers.....
> 
> The crap washers wear out, shed pieces and then the junk goes through the R&P AND THEN BEARING....BOOM...A BEARING goes away (Explodes) and the things look like what the Cootenay Cruiser posted recently on his 2100C
> 
> These boxes are metal chewing monsters and unless care is taken to eliminate the root source of all the crap....They will fail.
> Magnetic drain plugs in the main and drop boxes.....Change the oil regularly....if metal shows up....Box needs to come apart and the source found and fixed.....
> 
> The planetary gears, the drums and the R&P are good stuff....Just the overlooked stuff that wears can kill these..
> My thread shows the machine work I did to fix the diffy.
> 
> Will it solve all the issues...????????????????????/ I hope it does.....The bands, if let go can wear to the point that they start chewing the drums up......Metal junk will ruin the box and if a large chunk hits a bearing   BANG....BALL BEARINGS CAN GO THROUGH THE DROP GEARS AND THE R&P
> 
> Massive carnage ......
> 
> GOOD TUCKER DOES NOT HAVE THESE ISSUE....BUT HAVE OTHER PROBLEMS....
> 
> Toys are expensive.....run them hard...more expensive....then the


When you get it going is when the real costs will begin. Couple gallons to the mile at $12.00 is going to be painful. Makes snow shoes seem inviting.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

You got that right....
8000 pound barge with a 406 inch V8 growling away....

Yeah...no coast on that beast..
I am too old to consider the snow shoe thing..


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Doing some research on the conversion of the Sanden AC compressor to air pump duty.

The unit we have is a 9.4 Cu in compressor and will easily supply the amount of air needed,

The one area of concern has been lubricating the Pump.

The JEEP crowd use these compressors for "Onboard air" and they seem to work well.....But in my application lubricating the swash plate, torrington bearing and the pistons and other goodies in the center of the pump is of great concern....
Mission critical....
I do believe we will add a VIAIR electric as a "Get home unit"  just in case.....A lot lower CFM but it will give steering.

Reading a lot of info on greases brought me to "SUPER LUBE"
I bought a few tubes of the Silicone brake part lube to handle the Urethane bushings in the new front axle set up.

So I called up the mfg and spoke with their tech guru's

The lube I have will tolerate very high temps without degradation and will also function in low temps too (Cold weather start up)
The silicone will not hurt the air brake valves and other components in the system.

Sooooo....A bit of luck in finding a lube that should keep the little air pump quite happy....

Another plus....The stuff is not off the charts $$$$$$$...

Any of Y'all who are into off road Jeepers and have your own onboard air.....Might keep this stuff in mind
Very wide temperature range......


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Headed out yesterday and picked up 3 HD air tanks that came off a semi truck...
These bad boys came with the brackets....all the fittings...check valves and drain cocks too.

These type of tanks are not all that prevalent on places like Craig's list and such...
Did score these on Craig's list.....About 30 miles away.

These will give us a good supply of air for the cat...
I had been looking for tanks, but when I decided to give the hydraulics a go....I backed off.
Now that hydraulics have proven to be waaaaaay to expensive to consider....plus the crazy lead time......

Decided to flip through Craig's list.....and there these were....
3 tanks...$100.
The truck wreckers get far more than this for one tank....at least here they do...

Slowly...the materials for this segment are coming into place.

The exact mounting points will need to wait until the Blazer body is on the 2100 chassis.

The square tubes that mount the Body to the 2100 look like a great place to hang the tanks.....but will wait until the Blazer is on the Cat chassis to get excited.... The mounting tube that is there now for the single cab can stay as is.....the center and rear mounts will have to be fabricated....The rear mount as it is now will likely need to be modified.....the standard cab is a lot different........But the tube and the brackets that bolt it to the 2100 tub are good to go....

No doubt that the tanks will fit well.....Just need to make certain that they don't end up some place that makes getting to other stuff difficult

With the exhaust in the belly of the beast....the heat rising up will keep the tanks warmed up some.

The details on the entire air system are still in flux.

The air dryer needs to be mounted in a place that the spin on desiccant filter can be accessed easily...
And be such that it will not get packed with snow.....

So at this date we have the following.
Sanden 4440 compressor....Fits the GM serpentine drive.  (At 2500 Engine RPM will deliver about 13 CFM)
The air control valves....( Controls that are in the cab now ....Trailer valves TCS-9000)
(3) air tanks with several fittings.
(2) Master cylinders to operate the slaves on the OC-12   (M661) (Shipped yesterday)

Parts that are spec'd out and are standard stuff that can be picked up as we need them... Most are Bendix parts
(2) Type 20 brake chambers (To operate the master cylinders)
(1) Air dryer unit (AD-SP)
(2) Relay vales(R6)
(2) Quick release valves (QR1)
(1) Compressor governor (Standard (D2) Will operate the air dryer and pressure switch to turn compressor clutch on/off
( ?) Hose and DOT Nylon air lines to connect the system
(?) Check valves and fittings ...Parts with the tanks may be usable.
(?) Other goodies
This system will allow graduated control of the bands for braking too.......The plan for outboard disc brakes at the drive sprockets is still very much on the table......Having a usable FOOT brake that can stop the cat is a good thing......

The Discs, calipers and brackets are on the shelf and ready to go...
This can wait until the machine is operational or close to it.....
Adding the brake fluid lines in the tub while the body is off will be a good idea...

The exact location of the master cylinders to operate the Steering bands is still a bit of a guess.

Mounting a bracket behind the rear seat in the cargo area is definitely on the top of the list....Simply because the hydraulic lines to the OC-12 slave cylinders will be short lengths...Also the air chambers will be in a clean and warm place so they are not hindered by snow/ice....
Did some sketches on a few ideas of a bracket to mount the (Hydro boost air over oil setup) We shall see...

AS SOON as the weather improves the Blazer body needs to be readied to go on the cat...

Overall the plans are pretty much on track.....Some details have changed slightly....some ideas have improved......
At this point the general direction is looking good again.

One big thing....WE have not spent $$$$$$$$$$$$$ on too many wasted ideas....Yes...A few little experiments proved to be non starters......But few so far.

Spending lots of time doing real time engineering (Imagineering) and searching out (Sourcing parts) has taken many many hours.....But this is what is needed to make things work.....
McGyver projects are fun....BUT real engineering is a must if the end result is to be worthy of much.

Thiokol operated on a very low budget plan.....As much off the shelf parts as possible and some of the factory ideas were rather sketchy......AT BEST...
When DeLorean got involved things got even more weird...  The Big D viewed the Cat bizz as a cash cow and put very little into the operation...

When viewing the old cats like the THIOKOL, DMC. LMC and comparing them to machines like the Pisten Bully and other modern machines....Light years apart in technology and realization of the product... OMG.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

A bit of a break in the weather today...

Just itching to get after the Cat after a long winter sojourn .....

Grabbed the tractor and loaded up all the grousers from last summers disassemble of one of the two tracks I got from a fella near Mt Hood.

I was intent on getting the grousers off the belts...(Belts junk) 
There were some grousers that were bent, broken or otherwise unusable....These went in the scrap...

The Cat came with one track that I disassembled the summer before.....I traded a few grousers from that one to another fella for some tire guides.....

So today's exercise was to get the lot of these bad boys segregated into RH and LH orientation....
Takes 36 of each (Actually 36 RH and 35 LH with the last LH being a lacing cleat ...Different bolt pattern)  72 grousers per track.
The pile was behind the Cat...in the way...I need to roll the Cat backwards and clean up the needles, cones and other crap from the winter storms.
Grass and weeds have grown up as well.

So got the loose grousers all on separate pallets with RH and left hands on their own pallet.

Looks like we are at 50 or so plus or minus of each that are good shape...
I still had a few that I tossed aside for now as they were a bit tweaked..

The other track is still rolled up....But from what I can see it has a lot of 3700 grousers and the tire guides appear to all be Gen 2 type....

The next plan is to get the little Blazer apart and the body cleaned up and ready to sit on the Cat chassis.....

Fun stuff.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Checking the tracking numbers on some goodies.
The master cylinders are in transit,,,should be here tomorrow.

Ordered the Type 20 brake chambers this morning.....Normally these are $35-$50 each..
Found some from a NOS freight seller for $9 each.....Sweet deal...complete....

These are coming out of Fresno Cali.....Will be a quick hop up here..
Depending on the weather....Maybe I can get things cleaned up around the cat tomorrow.....

Winter around here made a bit of a mess for me to clean up...Cat belly is full of needles, cones, small limbs and other debris

Ah well...such is life..


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Brake chambers and the master cylinders are here now.
The brake chambers have a stroke of 2-1/4"    
I could not get any good reliable stroke numbers on the master cylinder (M661)
One reference mentioned a volume of the cylinder per stroke.

I did the math on things based on the volume.....A close number put the stroke at 1-3/4"    (After manually checking the master cylinder....Numbers are not real accurate)
The Slave cylinders on the OC-12 are 2.98 Cu in at maximum (Piston at the snap ring)
The ACTUAL stroke by hand is in the 1- 5/8" range on the master cylinder
Shooting at 1-1/2" stroke will give us a touch over 5/8" travel on the slaves

This will work.... If the bands are kept adjusted ...life should be good...
We can get a good usable response at the Slaves cylinders......with the parts we have....and they are readily available...

I can start designing the mounting bracket that the master cylinders and air chambers bolt to now.

I had hoped for a tad more stroke on the master cylinders....But the numbers we have will get us very close to a full stroke on the Slaves without having to "pump" the master cylinders...

The main parts are now in my hands to work with......

We'll see what shakes out.....

Once the bracket is fabricated and the components mounted....The rest of this system are just simple turning wrenches and mounting hoses and such.

Once these parts are together it will be an easy little task to "Bench test" the assembly to see exactly what sort of actual pressures we get at the outlet of the master cylinders   The goal is 400 psi.

The Thiokol manual says to "Tune" the pressure at the slave cylinders to 400psi for best overall steering results...

Tweaking the air pressure to the brake chambers will allow things to be dialed in easily


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Summer is here....The torrents of cold rain we had through April, May and up until last Saturday are gone.. 
Was finally time to service the AC in the house....All good to go..

Now it's time to get to work on the Cat again.
We moved the S10 Blazer over alongside the Cat...(Yesterday the cat got pulled out of it's hole and the area cleaned of all the winter debris)

The Blazer body is an absolutely perfect size for the cat......
As can be seen in the pictures .....the body will be easily fit onto the 2100 chassis.
The mounts I built to hold the single cab (Front cab mount on the cab) will work with the Blazer fine......How will the rest fit ??

HELL IF I KNOW.....But very likely some similar cross members will to what I


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Just time and disassemble things and get the various fasteners all in little containers for reuse later.

A lot of crap under the hood that must come off before I can get at the fenders and such.

All the wiring is plug and play.......Using the 1998 Serpentine set up on the 1980 engine and then adapting the 1998 alternator to the 1991 wiring harness.....Somebody already been there....Adapters available.....

Body is pretty good...A tad dirty.......Needs all new door seals as they are shot....Easy to get these online...standard stuff..
Front carpet is crap....rear seating and cargo area is good...just toss in fresh carpet up front....

At least it is not Moldy as hell......Headliner is nice all the way......

Door panels are pretty good...

Has power windows too......Power mirrors.....

I picked up a pair of late Dodge 2500 electric mirrors for cheap at a garage sale.....
These look like they were pulled in favor of a set of the BIG tow mirrors.....

The plan is a tube steel support up and across the top of the body to mount LED LIGHTS, HAZZARD LED FLASHING LIGHT BAR.....The truck mirrors can mount on the uprights and the original mirror control wiring can be rerouted to the new larger mirrors....

Everything is available to get stuff doing whats needed


----------



## Snowy Rivers

The long awaited disassembly of the "NEW CAT BODY" HAS BEGUN IN ERNEST.....
Started off this morning at the front bumper....Then the fun began.....

Bumper needed to come off before I could get at the bottom grille screws.....
This rig had been used as a Dingy......Herky azz brackets welded to the front of the frame and clean notches cut in the air dam.
Some clown had double nutted the bumper bolts and used red loctite....OMG.
The tow bar likely was shoved into the bumper....as there were dents in the bumper the same on both sides.....

Decided after twisting the carriage bolt square holes round on two bolts fighting with them.....Just to hell with the bumper....Took the disc grinder to the bolt heads....5 minutes later that mess is off on the ground.....

We do not need that bumper for the cat anyway.....

Grill all out and quite usable......
Core support is nice and straight......Got the radiator out, fan off the engine......
A good squirt of Skunk pizz on the core support mounting bolts ....This stuff is in good order....but a bit of lube will help...

Already a few perks....After lifting the radiator out a good peek down into the front cover pan under the area revealed a handful of tools...A couple wrenches, a 6" long 3/8 extension, a 2" long extension and a13mm socket.....

Nothing fancy....but these will go in the tool box.....

Fenders look great.....Core support is great.....no signs the rig was ever wrecked.......

The slow dissection continues.....Weather is pretty warm...About 90F out there this afternoon.....
After all the crap is off the inner fenders then they can come out....Then the fenders come off.....

Before calling it quits for the day....Took a look at the area of the rear wheel house opening just behind the rear doors.

A nice fabricated bracket that can bolt through the Flange where the trim screws on will be a sweet place to get hold of the body to lift it off...AND TO PUT IT ON AND OFF THE CAT.....A permanent thing me thinks.

The lift rig I built to handle the standard cab will probably be usable....With some tweaking maybe......

I am not sure what this body weighs...

The Curb weight spec says 3427.

The majority of the weight is the frame, engine, tranny, T case and diffy's...

My skid steer is rated at 1300 pound capacity in the bucket......

I have an extended lift rig the sits in the bucket to allow reaching in over the road wheels and frame on the cat.....

As long as the Skid steer can handle the load....Good to go..

The single cab was a piece of cake....

The 57" tracks are close to the limit.....Skid steer gets a tad light on the rear packing those monsters around

And so the progress continues.......

I will get a few pics tomorrow......

The real fun will be sweating bullets getting the body mount bolts out......This old of a rig....lets hope the bolts are not rusted badly....

The single cab is the same age....it came apart easily

Time to call it a day.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Got after things today pretty good.

Slow tedious slog getting stuff apart.

Parts all look great....
Just a lot of crap to get out of the way.....

The extra wiring that was added in its previous lifetime of "Dingy Duty" is snaked around and not very neatly done.....

This stuff needs to be traced back to where it was connected to the rig and cut loose.....

I want to keep all the ABS SYSTEM AND MASTER CYLINDER AND LINES ALL INTACT.....Whoever buys the rolling chassis will most likely want it......A 47-53 five window pickup body would be cool on this chassis.

Anyway....nuff of that....

Once both fenders are off and the core support I can finish getting the wiring off the engine that we need.

I want to keep all the important stuff...
Alternator....Starter solenoid...Ignition coil + lead...Temp gauge wire...oil pressure gauge wire....

A lot of stuff that will need to be wrapped up and abandoned in place....

This was a TBI truck......I do not want that convoluted mess to deal with....
The 406 SBC is getting a Large Cap HEI ignition and a 650 CFM Quadrajet 4 bbl carb  (Already have these goodies)

The dash gauges will all be plug and play....We simply use the sending units that fit the S10....

The only slight skew is the alternator......I am using the stock alternator that came with the 1998 Vortec 350 I got the heads and the serp drive off of...There is an adapter cable that will get the 1991 wiring to talk to the 1998 alternator....

The alternator is on the opposite side of the engine than the 1991 was.....Just have to reroute the wires......

The AC Compressor mounts on the drivers side serp bracket and gets a few mods to convert it to pumping air only to run the steering equipment......

Once the last of the wiring is all tended to....Then comes the body mount bolts.

So far things do not look all that rusty....Being a NW truck....no nasty salt to deal with...

A few nasty bolts to deal with on the RH fender....The speed nuts that slip into the sheet metal had broken and were spinning.

This took a bit of finesse to get them loose....Without damaging the tin.

Easy to slip in new speed nuts...I think we have some off the single cab that can be used.....

A few pics.
I waited to see if some of the extra baggage would rot off while I sat there looking at it.
Nope...it did not.....Gotta get it off one piece at a time.

Snooping for a NON AC heater box to replace that huge evaporator box.....This cleans things up a bunch....We do not need the AC box
I found one...just gotta get it coming......

Sorting out the vacuum hoses....OMG.....THE 4X4 uses vacuum to engage the front axle....YUCK.....PITA when they do not work
We just need the vacuum canister (Ball) the check valve and hose that feeds the heater controls.....

Looks at present that a long rod and a cool adjustable tranny lever kit will get the stock column shifter connected to the TH350 GEAR BOX......Much less spendy than a complete cable shifter......

Be far more fun when the last of the tin is off the front end and I can get to the stuff I need to....
All for now.......I am really pleased that all the wires are pretty much in good condition.....PLUG AND PLAY

The sending units for the 4.3 V6 will all work just fine with the 400 SBC

I have a complete FACTORY GM electrical manual for the 1991  S10 RIGS.....This really makes things way easier to sort out too.

The rig has tilt column.....This will allow the steering lever assembly to mount right to the steering shaft.....Then located things level and anchor the shaft solid..... Being able to tilt the controls up and down should be sweet....

All the controls such as the Wipers, turn signals and such will all work just as they did from Ma General...

Ignition switch will be left stock (Likely stick in a fresh switch and a new lock tumbler to make sure its top notch)

The fuel gauge senders are easy to duplicate in various types of tanks.....Stock gauge will go to work....Should be zero need to touch the dash.....May remove the ABS light and the SES light so they will not be annoying.....

Pretty simple Re-purposing of parts...

The PO said the power windows work.....We shall see... They will or they will get fixed....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Doing some snooping online for "Universal column shifter kits" 
Found the perfect solution to getting the column shifter connected to the TH 350.
Comes with a splined part that fastens to the shifter shaft on the tranny....Has a long stamped steel splined arm that allows adjustment to "The sweet spot" 








						Adjustable GM Transmisson Column Shift Linkage Kit For 350 700R4 4L60E 4L80E USA  | eBay
					

Adjustable GM Transmission Column Shift Linkage Kit for 350 700R4 4L60E 4L80E LS Suitable for: Fits TH-200 gearbox Fits TH-350 gearbox Fits TH-400 gearbox Fits TH-700R4 gearbox Fits 4L60 gearbox Fits 4L60E gearbox Fits 4L80E gearbox Rod Length: 15" Threaded End: 4" Adjustable: yes.



					www.ebay.com
				




The only thing....IT WILL NEED TO BE LENGTHENED 
Looks like cutting the rod and adding a tube that can slide over the rod ....Add set screws to the tube to rod connection to allow for preliminary set up...Then once things are happy and the rod end heim joint can deal with and minor adjustments...WELD THE TUBE TO THE ROD....

A very neat clean set up to allow the factory column shifter in the S10 cab to function as it did originally.....

Quick and easy....

I was looking at the pictures of the exhaust system I built and installed.....I will be honest here....I really had not thought a lot about the shifter....other than we would likely use a cable type floor unit.

This plan is far easier to install and will keep the Hump area free of clutter.

The 4x4 shifter that is there now will go with the chassis to it's new home.....Cover the hole in the floor and toss in a full rubber floor mat.....

Case closed.....

Currently the single cab on the cat has the shifter hole open.

And so the modification plans continue to unfold on the family model cat.......


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Weather was wonderful today....about 65 F all day....Cloudy on and off....Perfect working weather.

Finished getting the Core support removed and the LH fender (Inner and outer) off the unit.

Started sorting out the wiring and other crap more.

Decided to go after the body mount bolts....JUST BECAUSE....If they are gonna be a fight....Might as well get it on.....

The core support mount bolts came right off......

Moved aft to the A piillar location...The RH one came right off...On back to the B pillar location.....Rattled it hard with the 1/2" impact...NO JOY.
OK....Went and grabbed the 3/4" gun....Yeah buddy...Gonna come loose or break off trying.....Came right off..

To the rear.....The RH REAR was a tussle.....Just a bit tight getting the big tool into the area.....BRRRRRAAP...Off it came...
On to the LH REAR....Came right loose.....B pillar ...same same....A pillar area...right off.

All the bolts/mounts are off...... ******The bolts have a blue loctite compound on the threads....this keeps the bolts from backing out...also keeps water out of the threads too)  Once the body is off I think a tap run through the threads is in order....just because...

Back up front sorting out wiring and plugs.....

Getting that mess sorted out and stuff loose so the chassis can be rolled out.

There is a valance by the rear bumper that seems to come off with a couple bolts.

Hoping the bumper can stay in place.....

I don't need it and do not want to fight it off....The rig has a trailer hitch....Just a bitch getting rusty bolts off in that area.

All went well, accept a bit of "Frame rash" during a close encounter.....

I will heal though  
Tomorrow is a busy day and likely nothing gonna happen on this project.

Still have a bit more wire sorting and such.....Then the master cylinder has to come off.

The fuel filler unit has to get disconnected.

Not sure yet if the rear light wires are in the body or in the frame......

Gonna remove the lights and have a peek at the wire location......
If they are in the body...they stay there....if they are in the frame....Gonna have to get them pulled loose from the light assemblies and out of the body...Then worry about things once the body is off....

I am getting excited to see the body off the frame......Gonna be sweet to get that body up on the cat.........

A bit of Rigging needed so we can grab the body.
I made a pair of lift bars that bolt to the A pillar area where the front fenders bolt on (Good stout place....did this for the single cab)  .....The next thing is to be able to grab the body back in the rear wheel house area....The opening right by the rear doors looks like a good spot to think about...../Sturdy spot that can hold the weight and not be damaged during the lifts....I want to make a permanent lifting lug that can fasten on each side of the body for removals should they be needed for future repairs....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Things have slowed up a bit....Getting through all the wiring takes time and patience....

I have a factory GM wiring book for the Blazer....This makes life very good.....I am not a fan of the way GM does their wiring books....but with patience you can sort things out....
Really sweet being able to identify wire colors and where they all go.....

The engine sits very tight in the S10 chassis....So I decided to unplug the main harness  at the firewall/cowl bulkhead plug....
This will allow the body to come off easily...Then all the needed wiring can be sorted out and new wrinkle loom placed over the wires that will be used for the Cat application....

A lot of wiring that are simply not needed.....
Cruise control....Nope
All the TBI controls...Nope


Still need to get the starter solenoid wire fished out from under the engine....
Several of the needed wires will require some added length.
There are myriad ground wires that fasten to the cowl, inner fenders and core support....
The plan is to add a common GROUND BUSBAR...in the engine bay and then ground it to the engine and the cab....

All the various ground wires can be routed to the common ground buss IN AN ACCESSIBLE SPOT.....

I found a NON AC heater box to replace the big evaporator box....These were only used on the minimally outfitted trucks.(Work trucks and low budget models) 
Scored one on ebay.....

Then came the tranny lift rod....OMG..... there are in a tight spot....the engine bay is so snug on these rigs....the rod is tough to get at.....But we have the entire assembly ....The body mounting as high as it does on the cat gives plenty of room to jiggle things around and make the connection to the tranny all spiffy...

May be able to use the entire setup and just lengthen the main rod....Won't know until the body is on the 2100 and things can be looked over well....

The 700R4 tranny in the Blazer has a slightly different shift pattern....P-R-N are the same...the The OD-D-2-1.....
I have swapped a TH350 in place of the 700R a few times.....the shifters work fine....

I have thought  few times about using the 700R....The OVERDRIVE WOULD BE SWEET....Sadly these boxes are just crap.
The converter is small, the entire innards are very light duty....

The TH350 is pretty tough little box....I plan on doing the tranny as a select shift....MANUAL control......
This just eliminates all the fooling about  trying to get things to shift where you want it to....
Many times starting in #2 hole will be fine....The super low butt gears will make this an interesting Giddyup Go....

Having the nice column shifter will be sweet.......

Not much more at this point.....
Just keep on picking the little rig apart.....


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## Snowy Rivers

Great weather..
Got after things....BIG TIME
Getting a hand down in behind the engine to get bell housing bolts off...Damned tough.....Needed to get one wire retainer bracket off..

Everything is pretty well loose now.
The bulk of the wiring for the rear is inside under the carpet....The connections for the fuel pump and gauge sender are just behind the bumper...Sweeeeeeet...

One wire loom still connected  up front and it heads to the tranny and Tcase....(Speedo and Torque converter clutch)
We don't need these...so will likely snip the bundle where I can get at it at the rear of the engine harness then tape up the ends .....

Body all jacket up and blocked....
Steering shaft unhooked from the steering box.....

Fuel filler tube out of the way.
Found two more body mounts just ahead of the rear wheels.....They came off easy too....

The next plan is is build a lifting rig for the rear of the body....

So as it stands....We are almost ready for " Lift off "

Got a shipped notice on the NON AC heater box I scared up..
These are popular with V8 conversions.....

Fairly tough to find too....

I just hope the Skid steer can lift this bad boy....

I really do not know what the body alone weighs.   The curb weight is listed as 3427 lbs....This is  complete with guts feathers and all.
Without the frame, axles, Tcase, Tranny, engine, drive shafts, tires/wheels.....Front clip is off too
This thing should not be all that heavy......

THE FAMILY MODEL YA KNOW.... 

This little package is gonna make a sweet crew compartment for this kitty.....

Thing needs a good mucking out though....

Once the body is off and the chassis is out of my hair.....I will probably yank the seats and then pull out the carpet....

Gonna see if it can be cleaned and saved.....I really don't want to pour $$$ into new carpet....But....I like the idea of having the sound deadening on the floor.

More as it happens.....


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## Snowy Rivers

Finishing up getting the last of the goodies cut loose on the Blazer yesterday.
Sitting in the rig fooling about and noticed that the dash display is just a DARK AREA....NO GAUGES.

OH CHIT....This beast has one of the Digital dash displays with Speedo, Tachometer, oil pressure, engine temp, voltage meter, fuel gauge....

OMG..

I had not looked sat the dash before...The rig fit the need and the body was decent.

I started thinking about options.....New gauges from one of several vendors are $$$$$$$$$$$$$ these days.

Then in my snooping I came across a sweet deal on an S10 site dealing with V8 conversions.

An outfit called DAKOTA DIGITAL

The sell a cool little magic box SGI-100BT.....This little gizmo will change the signal so the tachometer in the rig will read correctly.....Also will allow the digital speedometer to work and read actual speed.

I will need a little pulse generator that screws onto the OLD STYLE speedo drive on the TH350
Dakota Digital has the magic box for that too.

All in all......A simple way to get all the gauges working correctly with minimal bother.....

The speedo correction requires a little VOODOO math to get the numbers close and then fine tune things with an app on my iphone....

I have had a couple GM rigs with the digital dash before.....When they are working they look sweet.

I had one that had a couple pixels gone in one of the displays....but still worked great....

All the factory GM sensors for the original 4.3 engine will screw right into the 406 V8 and work JUST LIKE DOWN TOWN... 
This makes life very easy.......

We'll have a few wires that feed annoying things such as 
Check engine, ABS and a couple others that will need to be cut loose to remove the annoyance..

Being able to have the factory tach and speedo working will be sweet.....

Raining now.....An inside and think day...


----------



## J5 Bombardier

I bought one of their units over 10 years ago, have had no problems. Tapped the bell housing on my Isuzu diesel that went into my yellow Muskeg , paired the sender/ box with an after market tac .
                                    J5 Bombardier


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## Snowy Rivers

These guys seem to know their Chit....

Getting the speedo to read right is going to take a bit more finesse.....
The cat has a 13.27:1 ratio through the OC-12 out to the sprockets.
Sprockets are 12 tooth 4" pitch 
Every revolution of the axle moves the cat 4 feet.
So at 2000 engine RPM  the cat should make 7 mph (6.85) we don't sweat the small stuff

2000 RPM in the blazer with 3.73 butt gears and 30 inch tires is about 49 mph

The folks at Dakota digital were telling me about the various speed sensors they have available.....
We need to get things somewhat close and then the magic box will tweak it right in....
If we can get the dash to within a Cat Whisker...good to go.
The tach should be easy......

The fella I was chatting with on the phone was not totally up to speed with the high RPM vs the actual ground speed we are talking.....

But the adjustment available should get us in the groove......
Having a fully functioning dash will make this sweet....

The speed through the OC-12 and the track drive is equal to a rig with a 26.5:1 butt gears and 30" tires.

These numbers are fudged a tad....but close....


2000 RPM IS EQUAL TO 6.86 MPH  (A 30" tire) vs 6.85 mph through the track drive as a comparison...

Should be able to get the Tech folks at Dakota digital to tell me what we need in the way of a speed sensor to drive the speedo..
THEY TALK ABOUT PPM (Pulses per mile on the pulse generator)  
The TH350 tranny always used a gear driven cable.....But they have pulse generators that will connect to the speedo drive ..
A little old and a little new.....

Yeah buddy...


----------



## Snowy Rivers

We have LIFT OFF...  
Got on the beast this morning with the goal to have the rolling chassis sitting SOMEPLACE OTHER THAN UNDER THE BODY BY DINNER TIME.
Grabbed some tree rounds left from a fair sized Fir we cut down last fall (It died)

The tree rounds make good blocking....
Grabbed up a bunch of 2x6 and stuff to make dunnage....

Getting the rear wheels to clear the body was going to be a big hurdle..
Yanked the rear wheels off and set the brake drums on the ground....
Things went real well until the gas tank filler hooked the Driver side front support timber....Yarded it off the blocks....


YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS...THINKS GOT REAL HINKY FOR A BIT.....OH CHIT....Thought the sucker was gonna TAKE A DIVE AND ROLL OVER ON ITS SIDE.

Grabbed the floor jack and got the timber jacked back up and secured.....A close one....

Been better if I had a helper watching....But not today.....

Chassis is out and sitting quietly waiting for it's new owners to come a get it......We just have to find them.....A craig's list add will gitterdone.
Though I had a buyer....Guy was just making noise.....


Body secured now and withing the next day or so I will get the body down on a big azz tire under the center of it....

I need to get the body mounts  off the frame and in a box until we need them....

Then comes sorting out all the wiring.....

I need to get the vss sensor off the T CASE .

There is a bundle of wires going to the rear of the rig...It had 4 wheel ABS

Just need the pair that feeds the VSS ...... (Speed sensor) so we can make the cool digital speedometer

There will be a bit of fooling to get the lift rig modified to grab the "Family model"
Been a long day.....But a good productive one


----------



## Snowy Rivers

I have been concerned about lifting the body.....I just remembered parting out a 1984 K5 Blazer several years ago.....
We used the skid steer and the lift rig we used many years ago to lift our drag boats off the trailer to do repairs to the bunks.
The K5 body is heavier....even with the rear top removed.....
I do believe we should be good.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Finished getting the S10 body down off the cribbing.....

Sitting nicely on a big O'l tire.....

The Non AC heater box showed up today as well....
Nice heater box...All metal too.

That will get rid of the big AC box that we do not need any more....Clean up the area under the hood.

Stripped the tranny shifter rod and crank assembly off the chassis this morning....Having the complete assembly will make connecting the column shifter very easy....The rod will likely need to be lengthened a bit.....But having the factory parts will save a lot of misery.....

Not much more happening today.....
Time to start sorting out the cowl wiring and pruning out what is not needed.....

Should be quite easy to end up with a clean neat wiring harness for the engine bay......

AS SOON AS POSSIBLE....I want to get the body up onto the cat and get the body mounts dealt with..........

At present the mounting looks to be pretty easy.  Just need to get more of the urethane biscuits.....

With the body down near the ground I think a good mucking out with the shop vac is in order...

The  PO was a real hacker....Holes drilled in the firewall to run cables and wiring through....Butchered mostly....No rubber grommets....Just non needed holes now....Will clean up and fill with silicone to keep the water out....

The heater temp cable is stuck....But I FOUND ONE ON EBAY IN GOOD SHAPE.....Gotta take the entire assembly....No worries.....

The cables do not like sitting idle for long periods....THEY RUST INSIDE


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Good news and some just plain NEWS
Sitting in my favorite working chair in front of the body...Sorting out wires and generally getting ready to start "Pruning/Insulating" all the stuff we don't need.

Thinking about the stock tranny column shifter assembly laying close by...????????
Just had to grab that bad boy and see how it's going to fit in the tub of the cat and how that's all going to work.

The simple answer....IT IS NOT GONNA WORK.....
The exhaust head pipe on the driver side is just right in the way.....No way to do this either.......
Back to the floor mounted cable shifter.....Nuff said on this....

The tub is just too close in the area to even get worked up over this issue....Move on...

NEXT ISSUE

With the plan to use the stock front fenders , hood and core support to get a tilt forward front end well in the plan.....

The height of the chosen aluminum radiator is going to require that the entire body be lifted about 6" minimum.....

ORIGINAL PLAN WAS AN ANT EATER HOOD MADE TO FIT......

Since we need to modify the cab mounts anyway to get the "Family model" mounted.....This is not really an issue...just a little bit of mock up and a spacer on the front mounts.......
The plan is to get the 4 door body set on the 2100 chassis and then start adjusting the height to allow the front end to sit where it needs to and then fabricate the remaining mounting brackets to use the stock GM body mount parts (Cushions, steel retainers and bolts)

The front mounting beam took a fair bit of work and it is involved with other parts now....NOT GOING TO MESS WITH IT

We will add the appropriate spacer to get the A pillar location where it needs to be and go from there.

The beam under the rear of the single cab will need to be modified for the similar location on the "Family model"
Elevation is a bit different...No worries.

Overall ...the change to the 4 door body is for the better.....Far more room and creature comforts.....
Well worth the time......Actually not much extra cost if any.....Just time and fooling withe things.

All the bolts and goodies that came off the 4 door re all in good shape and will go right back into use as we get things together.

The goal for this summer is to at least get the body fully mounted and hopefully the tilt front end coming along well.....

Once this is done.....Then the body can come back off and the drive line finished.....The tranny rebuild can be a winter project .... A piece here and a piece there......

I really wish we had gone with this body type from the gitgo.....These 4 door models are tough to find ....Either they are absolute junk or they are $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ 

The rig we got was a stroke of luck.....It lost a soft plug....cooked the engine and then it sat in the driveway....People wanted it gone and answered my Craigs list ad.....

More as it happens...


----------



## m1west

Snowy Rivers said:


> Good news and some just plain NEWS
> Sitting in my favorite working chair in front of the body...Sorting out wires and generally getting ready to start "Pruning/Insulating" all the stuff we don't need.
> 
> Thinking about the stock tranny column shifter assembly laying close by...????????
> Just had to grab that bad boy and see how it's going to fit in the tub of the cat and how that's all going to work.
> 
> The simple answer....IT IS NOT GONNA WORK.....
> The exhaust head pipe on the driver side is just right in the way.....No way to do this either.......
> Back to the floor mounted cable shifter.....Nuff said on this....
> 
> The tub is just too close in the area to even get worked up over this issue....Move on...
> 
> NEXT ISSUE
> 
> With the plan to use the stock front fenders , hood and core support to get a tilt forward front end well in the plan.....
> 
> The height of the chosen aluminum radiator is going to require that the entire body be lifted about 6" minimum.....
> 
> ORIGINAL PLAN WAS AN ANT EATER HOOD MADE TO FIT......
> 
> Since we need to modify the cab mounts anyway to get the "Family model" mounted.....This is not really an issue...just a little bit of mock up and a spacer on the front mounts.......
> The plan is to get the 4 door body set on the 2100 chassis and then start adjusting the height to allow the front end to sit where it needs to and then fabricate the remaining mounting brackets to use the stock GM body mount parts (Cushions, steel retainers and bolts)
> 
> The front mounting beam took a fair bit of work and it is involved with other parts now....NOT GOING TO MESS WITH IT
> 
> We will add the appropriate spacer to get the A pillar location where it needs to be and go from there.
> 
> The beam under the rear of the single cab will need to be modified for the similar location on the "Family model"
> Elevation is a bit different...No worries.
> 
> Overall ...the change to the 4 door body is for the better.....Far more room and creature comforts.....
> Well worth the time......Actually not much extra cost if any.....Just time and fooling withe things.
> 
> All the bolts and goodies that came off the 4 door re all in good shape and will go right back into use as we get things together.
> 
> The goal for this summer is to at least get the body fully mounted and hopefully the tilt front end coming along well.....
> 
> Once this is done.....Then the body can come back off and the drive line finished.....The tranny rebuild can be a winter project .... A piece here and a piece there......
> 
> I really wish we had gone with this body type from the gitgo.....These 4 door models are tough to find ....Either they are absolute junk or they are $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
> 
> The rig we got was a stroke of luck.....It lost a soft plug....cooked the engine and then it sat in the driveway....People wanted it gone and answered my Craigs list ad.....
> 
> More as it happens...


 In a short time you will at the stage where you can sit in it and make engine noises. Every project has that stage.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Oh yesssss.
Sitting up there in the cab making Snowcat noises....And the neighbors wondering  WTF.....


I got after the wiring....Sorted out all the stuff we need....Coil/ tach, water temp, oil pressure, alternator, speedo speed sensor, Starter solenoid.....And a few extras.....

I washed out the main cowl wiring plug with electronic cleaner....Going to pack the plug with dielectric grease and reassemble.

Trying to get a few of the factory rubber body mounts....I found a box with a few new ones left from a blazer I had years ago.....New parts.....still need some of the lower rubber parts.....These are available....$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

I scored some of the upper mount halves for $8 each....The lower parts.....arrrrrgh..$34 each...no way

Bone yard trip and find a few good ones.....

I want the soft rubber OEM parts instead of the urethane....Far less noise transferred  through into the chassis


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Picked up the 2"x2"x1/4" x 6' long steel tube to construct the rear lift bar for the body.
This unit will bolt to the mid body location behind the B pillar about 3 feet.....
Stopped off at the hardware store and got 4 fresh ratchet straps and 2 D Rings.
Will weld the D Rings to the outer ends of the steel tube to allow an easy grab using the straps up to the overhead spreader bar.

This SHOULD give us a really easy pickemup......

A bit of work needed on the tube....Gotta drill the tube to fit the nut plates in the body and add a 3" riser to get the unit to clear things and fit past the inner fenders in the wheelhouse....

Weld on the D Rings.....Get some longer metric bolts to fasten the lift rig to the body.....Good to go.
The lift bars I built for the standard cab will bolt to this body as well....Same parts...

Gonna be interesting to see how the skid steer handle the heavier rig....

I know the cat can do it....There is a fella online with a Dodge Durango on a 2100....

Fun stuff


----------



## Snowy Rivers

I had not purchased any steel since last summer.....OMG......That 6 foot piece of square tube was $$$$$$$$$$

Local steel yard wanted $138.00 
Another place a few miles away had the same material at $78 ....Helluva difference....A bit more of a drive.....but even with the added gas to go get it.....saved a bunch


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Got the tools after that new steel.
Grabbed the big Mag Drill to drill the holes to bolt the tube to the body mounting area in the midship location.

Trimmed the inner lower fender well to allow easy access to the mount once its on the cat and to allow the tub to fit up snug all the way across.

Welded the  D Rings to the tube.....

Son in law came in with our universal heavy hauler..

Big Dog pulling the Big Tex.....30 foot deck on that bad boy....Snow cat will fit too  
102" wide deck....
The load of hay with trailer was 18000lb

Anyway

Lifting rig is looking good

The Few..The Proud....The 2100 owners......


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Well now...
Today got off to a slow start...Managed to get the front lift rigging off the single cab and bolted onto the Family model....Then the Son In Law calls up.....He is heading up to Idaho for the big dirt bike ride next week and his big dog had a funny noise in the front end...

We found it....RH front axle U joint was shot....

We got that all wrapped up just before dinner time and that finished the day......

But at least something got done on the cat....NOT MUCH THOUGH

Hopefully within a day or so we can go for a "1st Pick" of the Little S-wagon and check out how the new rigging works....

If the rigging works well then we can get the S wagon out of the way and remove the single cab from the cat and get the Family model up in place....

Once in place we have some engineering to do to get the elevation spot on so the front end will tilt and MISS the top of the radiator......


Been a long day.....But the big dog lives


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Busy day today....but productive too.....

The Kids came up and grabbed the faithful little Scat Trak and loaded the Dirt bike rack on the Big Dog..

I was busy putting the finishing touches on the Body lifting rig so the Family model can be lifted into place on the cat....

The lift rig is the same unit I used to get the standard cab up into place on the cat.

Added a truss over the lengthwise tubes to handle the extra weight of the family model.

The center beam can be slid back and forth a lot to get the balance point spot on....Once in place the set screw is tightened.
The truss king pin has two threaded rods to allow the center beam to pass under the truss and then spacers are slipped under the threaded rods and the rods snugged up.....Sort of a McGyver....(Rube Goldberg)  But it should work fine.....

Not real sure that the truss was totally necessary ....But I really do not want to have the lift go south just as the body is going up onto the CAT CHASSIS....That would SUCK....

The rig is really basic and not pretty....Added materials from what was in the short stock rack and a couple pieces of 3/16 x 1 inch flat bar new materials....

Just want it simple and strong....we will need it to place the body as well as remove it for some service work in the future....

If all goes well....May go for a test lift tomorrow and get a feel for things.....
I need to carry the family model out of it's current location and turn it around.....
Need to remove the single cab and get it out of the way....

Then the family model can be placed on the cat chassis. For the time being on wood blocks until the radiator location and height can be sorted out.

Going to modify the A pillar body mount to gain elevation and then fabricate the other mounts to fit exactly where they need to be......The A pillar mount was a bit involved with other parts....NOT GOING TO HACK IT UP....

I came across some 17 gallon fuel tanks today that come with the filler neck/cap...The fuel outlet and vent fittings....
These bad boys will fit perfectly in the rear wheel house area....Will need a little bit of fabrication to add mounting brackets to the cat chassis.
The tanks come with the 0-90 ohm gauge sending unit  (Standard for the GM dash gauges of this time frame)

Pretty much a plug and play...

That's about it for today....


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## Snowy Rivers

Decided to prepare the Family model to remove the seats...(WEIGHT THING FOR THE LIFT) 
Grabbed the shop vac and really sucked the beast out.

Carpet is not stellar.....But I think that removing it and doing a good shampoo will give it a renewed lease on life..

No tears or any serious damage....just normal wear.....

No sense in tossing it out....After a good cleaning and letting the summer sun dry it good....It should do fine for this duty assignment....
Some nice rubber mats in each area....Good to go.....


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## Snowy Rivers

Back at it.
Ordered up new outer door rubber seals....31 years on the originals....They are shot
Got after getting the seats out and all the trim panels off so the new door seals can be installed when they get here next week.

Unlike all the newer rigs that have all the plastic interior trim SNAP into little holdown clips....These older rigs used phillips screws to mount all the trim pieces.....

The lower kick panels and sill plates especially can be a real PITA to get the screws out due to the fact that they penetrate the floor...

Some skunk piss helps a lot.....

Most of the interior trim is in great shape....A few screw holes have had the screws over tightened and the plastic areas damaged a bit.....Not a big deal....

Went after the rear full fold down seat.....This beast was like arguing with a pissed off Octopus.... 

I finally wrapped it up with a ratchet strap and snugged it up.... Then got it out of rig.

Front seats were pretty easy.....Overall the seats are quite usable.....A bit of repair on the drivers seat cushion and a pair of  Camo covers.....Good to go......

The head liner is sweet....I originally figured that it would be junk like most 30 pus YO GM rigs are with big baggy puckers hanging down.....
Good to go.

Tomorrow the plan is to get a small carpet/furniture shampoo machine and give the carpet a good DOUCHE.....
A good cleaning of the carpet will do wonders to stop the bad odors that always seem to creep in during the long wet winters

Got the front passenger area of the carpet blocked up so it can dry out.....Once it is dry (Not long in this heat) Will fix the hole the other folks hacked in the lower cowl for power cables to feed their boom box speakers....

Gonna leave the seats out until I can try a lift and see how that goes....

A few picks.....The piccys make the carpet look better than it actually is.......Rubber mats in the foot areas will definitely help a lot....
The giant azz hole in the floor left from the T case shifter has got to get a cover on it.

I am thinking that a piece of 1/8" aluminum sheet and a bit of massaging with a soft hammer around The O2 Bottle on the torch set should make a nice cover.
I can get under the rig easily to mark the holes in the cover.

This cover/opening may be a welcome thing to allow access to connect the shifter cable to the tranny.....?????? We shall see....

The center console was a real POS.....The Winters sidewinder shifter is going to occupy that spot....

The windshield took a hit from a rock at some point.....Cracked across the entire glass....
While the body is on the ground would be a great  time to get a fresh glass installed....
Get that done before we do the Rattle can camo paint job....

The roof is pretty nasty....A bit of surface rust and some peeling.....The orbital sander will handle it....Shoot it with Phosphoric acid to kill the rust.....Prime and then Neon Green and flat black camo......Gonna be FUGLY 

All for now.......


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## Snowy Rivers

Weather is hot now.....Pad under the carpeting is WET
No wonder....Previous owners had punched a hole through the lower edge of the cowl at the floor to run a heavy power wire inside to feed their big stereo box....No grommet and lots of room to leak water from right behind the RF tire.....Another big azz gash at the inner edge of the heater box.....Clean this up and fill the holes with silicone......They do not hurt anything....

The glove box door hinges (Little pivot bosses) were in the glove box....Some idiot likely tried to pry the glove box door off.....Broke the bosses off....

JB Weld and a little massaging.....Good as new....A used door the right color was $70....No way....
This dash is the dark blue and tough to find here.....

Yanked off the AC box and replaced it with the non AC metal unit.....The Resistors are different....Had to mod the hole in the can to get that handled....The fan motors are smalled on the NON AC box.....Not sure if the resistor set up from the AC model will work with the non AC....Both 12 volt motors.....Guys use these on V8 swaps.....WE will deal with any issues....

I need to lengthen the wire harness to reach the resistor pack.....

Just about have the front end cleaned up....A good washing and it will be ready for CAT DUTY.
The rear window/Hatch came with the 2x2 stick to hold it up....Arrrrrgh

Replaced the gas cylinders....That's done

The Rubber door seals will be here tomorrow....So they can go in and then the interior trim can go back on.

Letting the carpet and pad dry good in this heat...Then plug up the holes in the floor....

I really do not want to button this thing up WET....If it needs another week to dry....so be it.

There are two holes drilled in the firewall on the drivers side that I need to deal with too....Same sort of hash.....

Easy to use a grommet and some silicone....Nope...They just let it leak.....

I do not know if the windshield was leaking....But will replace that before rain flies......

Trying to get these little things done before the S Wagon body gets lifted onto the 2100 chassis...

The elevation will take a bit to get spot on......Gonna need to get the radiator location scoped out and the mounting done.....This will dictate where the body has to sit....

Just a few details......

I have been looking at the Exhaust pipes....Thinking seriously about running them up the rear sides and then doing Bullhorn tips 4" or 5"....I want the noise UP and away from the chassis......

Some pics


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## Snowy Rivers

AS is usual when you play mix and match with factory parts and asking things to go where few have gone before..

The heater motor on the heat only box is smaller (Body is smaller, windings are smaller and the blower wheel are smaller)
The electrical system is somewhat different too....Different resistor and different wiring.

I wanted to keep the electrical system as it was.....

The motor mounting flange is the same...just clocked differently...(About 180 degrees clockwise)
The blower wheel on the AC unit is an inch deeper and will not allow the motor to fit....

PLAN

Remove the blower wheel from the original AC blower motor......Install the blower wheel from the heat only motor (I ordered a new wheel as the one that came with the heat only box was a bit sad)
Shaft size is the same.....Good deal...

 Now we still need a 1/2" spacer between the motor flange and the heater box.

How to accomplish this ?????
Machining an aluminum ring/adapter would work......but getting a piece of alloy pipe was gonna be a pain....

Simple solution popped up.

Self adhesive dense foam weather strip....3/4" wide x 1/2" thick....Apply the rubber strip (Really firm black stuff) to the flange on the motor.....Drill the holes needed through the rubber to make assembly easier.

Modified fan motor assembly now slips into the heater box and fastens in just fine...The blower wheel spins freely and is located in the inlet venturi  that is part of the cowl air management/water separator system 

Plug in all the wires as original.....The firewall side of the heater system is complete....(Almost....I want to repaint the heater box and seal it to the firewall with non hardening caulk ) 

The heat control cable in the cab is stuck......Will replace it a bit later as that is in dash work and does not involve the heater itself....I want to get the dash apart and make sure the radio/stereo wiring is not  an issue...Shorted or hacked up so it will cause issues......A nice sound system in the cat would be nice....Long way off right now though...

Another little hurdle on this mountain has been dealt with......

The door rubbers came yesterday.....The carpet AND PAD are drying out nicely and will be ready to lay back down after the new rubbers are installed SOON    
Get the interior trim back in place and then we will be getting very close to a TEST LIFT of the body.....
Once the test is complete and if this goes well....S wagon will get moved so the single cab can be removed from the cat chassis......

Then the fun begins.....I am anxious to see the S-Wagon on top of the 2100.......Should be quite a nice view from the height it will end up sitting.........Gonna need a stair case to get in me thinks.....

Likely something similar to what I had originally planned.......A "Running board" type step to be able to get up off the tracks and into cab.....

A open grate type step such as what is used on big rigs to climb up over the large fuel tanks.
Something that will not pack with snow and be an easy access...

I am still toying with the idea of a "Rear Veranda" to allow easy access to the rear hatch/gate......STEP off the track and up onto the veranda.......Time will tell....


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## Snowy Rivers

As is usual with this project.....A modification is being made...

I could not find the heavy foam I wanted to use as a spacer on the fan motor...

Decided o look at getting a water jet cut aluminum ring made.....Local outfit wanted an arm and a leg.

Water jet cutting is $$$$$$$$$$$...Mostly the setup fee for the first part....One off stuff gets spendy.....

Digging around looking for another item and ran across some HDPE.....But it was not quite big enough..

Called a local plastics outfit...$20 for a12" X 12" piece x 1/2" thick..... 

Grabbed that piece...

Will lay it out and jig saw it a tad large and then grab it in the lathe and finish it up.

This will make a really nice permanent spacer/adapter for the fan motor.

Got a call a bit ago...The new fan cage is in....Just need to get into town and grab it....

I wanted Black HDPE...They only had white....such is life....

Problem solved......

This should make a very nice heater setup.....All factory...Well sort of....MORE FRANKEN PARTS....


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## Snowy Rivers

Well now....Does anyone hear CHANGE ORDER.

I had sent out a couple emails inquiring about getting the needed spacer ring for the fan water jet cut..

One fella called me with a quote....TO MUCH $$$$$$$$$

This morning I get a text message from the other guy....."Your aluminum ring is ready for pickup" Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat ?????

I asked for a quote.....

I called him back and asked about the ring..

He was apologetic for not sending a price first......But $40 is not bad and the part is nice..

Usually one off water jet cut parts can be spendy

When I had the snowflake wheel centers done...The setup for the first one was $80 and then $30 for each item after that...


This was a surprise and it is nice having an outfit close by that does this....

Part is perfect....I just need to index the ring to the motor...drill the screw holes and we are off to the rodeo.

I got the RH SIDE door seals installed and all the interior trim back on that side.

Tore the LH front door seal back off again....Propped the carpet up to dry in this toasty weather.....

Likely tomorrow the LH side new parts will go on.......Then the interior will be looking very good.....


Still need to Gooooop the hacked holes in the firewall to prevent water intrusion....
Next I want to get the pressure washer on the underside of the body and clean it well....Get the loose dirt off....
Then we are gonna be about ready for a FIRST LIFT....


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## Snowy Rivers

The little Alloy ring was a real pleasure to work with...

Got the Original  "Bolt pattern" (Screws) transferred to the ring ...as well as holes for the locating bumps on the heater box..

Drilled those holes through the ring and countersunk the outward face......

10-32 Flat head screws and nylock nuts to mount the  ring to the heater box....

The original AC type blower has the same bolt pattern....at least for the screws, but is clocked differently

Clocked the motor so the cooling hose is lined up with the little fitting on the heater box and made a reference mark..

Took the ring back off the box and then aligned the motor and the ring so they are concentric....Marked and drilled the mounting holes.....The original screws get a great bite in the 1/2" depth of the ring.......

The assembly mounted up well and looks fine......

Will have the assembly back off later to paint the box and to add some final cosmetic touches to things......

Nothing fancy.....Just want to anchor the wiring to the firewall a bit better and I want to add a bracket someplace in the area right at the tunnel mouth to mount a Bus bar to connect the engine wiring.....Be nice to be able to unhook all the engine wires quickly in the event of needed repairs and a body removal is needed......

Far easier to work on this stuff now while I can sit on a chair in front of the area and work on it...

The LH side carpet area under the drivers feet is all dry now with two days of 90+F and a breeze blowing.....The carpet can get laid back down and the Door rubber seal and interior trim can go back in....

Weather folks keep taking about a bit of rain coming up....I want to patch the ugly holes the other folks cut in the firewall before this area gets wet and allows water into the cabin.....

Great fun....Well..sort of....
We are getting very very close to having a Cat Cab that is ready to go to work....

Some interior things will need to wait until the body is mounted to be really sure of the location......Big one is the transmission shifter.

Was too bad that the factory shifter will not work.....Exhaust head pipe is just in the wrong place and with the confines of the chassis tub......No way to move things....

I want the shifter located so it is comfortable and handy to operate easily and quickly......Gonna take some time in the front seat mocking things up (And making SNOW CAT NOISES)   

One other thing that needs attention ASAP is the original steering wheel hub assembly......This SOB has sheet metal flanges that are sharp and have managed to draw blood a few times already....

The Steering valve assembly I did prior (Currently mounted in the single cab) needs to be mounted on the tilt column head.


The steering controls will make getting access to the ignition key really tough......I had built in a place for a remote mounted ignition switch into the drivers steering controls....Piccy

The CURRENT key lock cylinder is messed up anyway......Very easy to unplug the two gang plugs on the sliding column switch and plug in the various wires needed to extend the wiring out to the new location and install a good Heavy duty switch....
The locking steering column is of no use anyway.....So having the key located in such a NASTY place is a waste of time.....

The air valves are proportional .....Set the main line pressure to the valves at 65 psi (Max pressure to the air chambers running the master cylinders that control the OC12 steering cylinders)

Bringing the valve handles all the way to the soft round pad will be the normal steering position.....All or none....But lower pressure applications can be used with both handles for braking..

A note

Rear outboard disc brake assemblies are partially completed and on the shelf......

Will mount the brake assemblies on an adapter bolted to the track drive sprockets......Having the original brake master cylinder and pedal assembly available will be a nice safety feature.

The Dual master cylinder from the S Wagon can easily be used as a single cylinder application by bench bleeding the forward section (Rear wheels) to remove all air and then plugging the outlet port......The rear portion of the cylinder (Disc brake side) will then function to control the disc brakes mounted on the track drive.....

Pretty simple solution to get Hydraulic braking that is independent of the rear differential......

Even in the event of an engine stoppage....The brakes will still work....

And the saga continues....


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## Snowy Rivers

The little things that crop up on any older Resto mod can be challenging ....especially when it comes to parts replacement.....

The beauty of the popular GM S series....These are still highly sought after by many folks.....Probably not to use as a snow cat cab.....but none the less as a driver.

A current little challenge.....Yesterday while getting the LH side door seals back on and the plastic trim and sill plates back in......I notice that the door jam switch (Dome lights) looked really nasty and did not move.....Rusty and just used up.

A quick phone call to the local Autozone store and we will have new switches today.....

These little beasts can be a real pain to remove if not attacked properly...

Grab the center plunger that contacts the door with a small needle nose vise grip (LIGHTLY) to keep it from turning .....Then loosen the hex portion that threads into the door jam.......Not holding the center part of the switch will result in the wires being twisted into a knot and torn up.

These switches have two prongs for the slide on connectors......This is a ground circuit and interconnects with all the dome lights to allow lighting any time any door is opened.....THE LAMPS are live all the time and the switch simply provides the ground source.

Being able to get the replacement parts is a real blessing.....

So many parts on the older snow cats are simply non existent and when they fail.....McGyver has to take over to get function back....

The stuff like the door seals was an easy item to source.....I picked up one pack of two seals off ebay and the second set from JEGS online store.

JEGS is one of those great outfits that will send your parts....PLUS cool stickers to pimp their store and plenty of advertising and catalogs to cruise through.....WELL.....The parts are good.....I am not into the sticker thing ya know...

Looking through the original 2100 factory parts/service manual......Very little if anything other than standard parts like Bolts/nuts, bearings and seals are available at this late date.

Everything else is a SEARCH OUT something that will work.....

When starting this Restomod I have kept complete track of all the components going into the build.
Documenting the what, where, when and why..

The chassis parts including wheel bearings....The engine, complete from the ground up, what it is and what parts were used.... The tranny....Tires and wheels....The body.....

Any time a part may be needed in the future.....Just check the book and see what we did originally......
Being able to get a new heater core if we need one....An easy trip to the fav Parts house.....Bingo....good to go.

Things like the Bastard wheels....All documented, supply sourced and the special tools to build more all available.....

The front suspension system ....Another Bastard assembly....Uses standard accessory air bags....The urethane bushings are readily available from one of several suppliers......The upper and lower bump stops.....JEEP WRANGLER PART.
The spindles and the arms are original parts taken off the old axle....

The OC12.....All new bearings and seals (Standard off the shelf items)  The thrust washers....Used parts from a GM TH 400 and from the Ford A4LD to replace the failure prone items used originally....

Yeah......It is a Frankencat....But we can replace any part and know what was done during the Restomod....

Having standard power train parts makes life sweet.....
A 400 Small block Chevy with a TH 350 gear box
Heads are 1998 Vortec 350 stuff
All the front end stuff on the engine (Serp drive off the Vortec 350) Alternator, starter and other nick nacks are all Vortec stuff.

The rear outboard disc brakes.....Mid 1990's Front disc brakes off an S10 Blazer.....Using modified after market caliper brackets, Stock rotors and stock calipers.....All readily available stuff from the parts house.

The tracks.
Stock 43"  steel    "J"grousers  (2) 12" wide belts per side to allow the tracks to be narrowed up to 43" OAW
The Track hinges.....Stock type heavy steel (Not sure who made these....Hans hall type)

Tranny
Standard short shaft TH350....

Drive shaft

Two piece shaft from early 1990's S10 Extreme 
This shaft has a single Cardan joint at the tranny output and the connects via a slip joint to the main shaft.
The main shaft is a "Double Double"  (Two double cardan joints) with the female slip yoke connecting to the short shaft and a flat flange on the rear double cardan joint that connects to the OC12 

The Input at the OC12 is a modified flat flange type that came (NOS) FROM A 1953 GMC M211 6X6 Military truck
This flange had the same spline size and count as the pinion shaft on the OC12......An adapter flange was made to get the S10 flange to play nice with the Military part.

These truck saw service from Korea up through Vietnam and later....Many of these rigs are still used as Brush Rigs on small fire Dept's and many were sold off and found there way into the private sector....

They had an extreme reduction box attached to the 4 speed hydromatic trans...

Again....good solid parts that are available....

The Double Double shaft with the two CV type joints allows quite a bit of error in shaft angle and therefore will keep the "Bad Vibes" in check

The only thing about these joints is THEY MUST BE GREASED OFTEN  (Oil change time is a good rule) Not greasing them regularly allows the centering ball and seat to wear out quickly and then the assembly will drive you crazy with bad vibes....

GM dropped the Double Double due to Cost and the maintenance issues....People will not take care of things...A single cardan joint will last a fairly long time with the factory sealed joints.

I chose the Double Double for one reason.....TO MAKE INSTALLING THE BEAST EASY AND NOT HAVING TO WORRY A LOT ABOUT SHAFT ANGLES......Any reasonable angle on each of the two shafts and life will be good....

Again...Stock parts...readily available.....Standard U joints and centering ball kits......

The one thing that is different about this setup.....The drive shaft does NOT articulate during operation as it did in the original application......As long as the joints have a bit of angle to them.....They will play nice...

Just a chronology of parts and why they were chosen......

Did I make any mistakes that have been redesigned and or changed...HELL YEAH....That is all part of any design work....
Better to do it before the thing is finished......And the Saga continues


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## Snowy Rivers

Nothing fantastic going on today....Cleaning up the cat and getting ready to start the body swap job.

All the parts off the S-Wagon have been piled on and around the cat...BIG MESS Ya know.

Picked up 4 self retracting ratchet straps for the lift .....These are nice.....No extra tail hanging down and getting tangled up on stuff.

Four 6 foot 500 lb rated (1500 lb yield) straps that will pull out easily and then tighten up as needed......

Still a tiny bit of work to be totally ready to go for the test lift.....But getting closer....

If the lift goes well I will take the S-Wagon to the other side of the area and sit it back on it's tire.....Then the single cab can come off.....


Looking at the exhaust system that I had left heading out the back of the cat......With the "Family model" things are such that a nice 90 degree pipe welded to the existing rear pipes can be run out each side and then connected to a tall 4" stack with the Bullhorn tips up top.....I want the exhaust and noise up and away from the cat.....I do not want fumes getting into the cab and really want the bark and rumble from that 400 inch engine away from the creature comforts...

Granted....I want to hear the Mouse that roars.....just not to the point that it is annoying...

The piccy shows the 4" pipe slipped over the 2-1/2" pipe.....Adapter rings pilot the 4"
These are not welded yet.....Easy job to remove these and change the routing to any overhead position....

A bracket that bolts to the outer portion of the tub rail and extends up the side of the body (An inch or two away from the body) will work sweet to mount the 4" stacks on rubber type hangers.......


The rear urethane mounts can come around to the sides and hold the outer ends of the short rear 2-1/2" pipes.

The system has the ball and socket type connections to allow ease of assembly/disassembly.

So far the switch to the FAMILY MODEL is not going to entail a lot of work...

Actually there are many benefits.....not including the passenger room.....


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## Snowy Rivers

Still getting ready for lifting the S-WAGON.
The subject of "Compatibility" of the S10 Body to work with the snow cat came up a while back......This morning I was able to confirm that indeed....THIS PLAN WILL WORK..

Definitely CAT SEATS   

Li'll Oscar was enjoying sleeping on the bucket seat..

We almost got slammed with a T storm last night....But it skirted around us.....I do not want these seats getting all soaking wet.
Gonna clean off the cat hair, fir needles and crap that has piled up on them over the last few days and get things in the back of the Suburban for safe storage.


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## Snowy Rivers

Trying to get some assistance to handle the lift on the S-Wagon.....
Decided to get after some loose ends.

The air filter assembly that came on the S-Wagon with the TBI looked interesting.....Decided to see if it would fit the Quadrajet...

IT DOES      The only issue was we needed a center stud with a 3/8" offset to work....The cutout on the inside of the lower portion fits the QJ perfectly.

I flipped the flex hose over so it faces rearward...

The flex hose has a nice flange on it that can connect to a "HOT AIR BOX"

Using the VORTEC heads on the 406 SBC will be sweet.....ACCEPT  ....The Vortec does not have manifold heat like the old carburetor manifolds did.....Cold air will cause the QJ to ice up.....

Adding a fair sized air box  (Fasten it to the front cab mount beam) and run a "Stove" from the head pipe to supply hot air.

A vacuum operated flap to open the flow of hot air to the air box to supply carb heat......

In conditions with cold and moist air... the Vortec with a 4 barrel needs warm air or it is gonna run like Chit....

The filter fits great.

Decided to bolt up the inner front fender to check fit on the air supply tube.....Some mods to the inner fender will get things happy...

Also the very front of the inner fender bolts to the core support and after looking this over....Looks like the elevation of the cab will be fine as is.....

The radiator will be below the area that the tilt front end needs to mount to.....Sweeeeeeeeeeeet

This will make mounting   "The family model" very easy....I had thought there was going to be issues.....

Looking at the front of the "Mock up engine"  (305) and checking out things as far as the fan, shroud, clutch fan and such...
Things look good.
The S-Wagon has a 5 blade clutch fan....SERP DRIVE (Reverse rotation) water pump....

The water pump is also early enough that it uses the built in bypass hole that goes into the block  (The 400 block is the same)
Vortecs bypass the coolant via an external hose during warm up....This issue must be addressed when swapping Vortec heads onto a Gen 1 SBC  Drilling the RH head for the bypass hole....Done deal.

Using a new water pump like the one that came on the 1991 S10 V6 (Same pump was used on the 1991 350 V8)

So cooling will be a none issue.....

This thing is going to be  real MUT......Mix and match....

There are a few different aluminum Vortec style intake manifolds that accept the spread bore Q JET...

With the S-Wagon still sitting on the ground.....Was a good time to get some of these things worked out.....

I am happy that we are not going to have to lift the cab any higher......

A few pix


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## Snowy Rivers

Looking over the air cleaner and mulling over the idea of an air box......

Decided  to see what is available from small aircraft......OMG.....$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$....

Sat this morning and designed a custom box to do the job.

Will see about getting some sheet metal sheared and the box can be fabricated easily.....
4" inlet and outlet 
A flap on the inside to select cold or heated air.

Has to be large enough holes to allow the full air flow of the 4 barrel carb......

Just a great time to figure this out......


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## Snowy Rivers

Waiting for the kids to get here and lend a hand for the lift.

I got the Skid steer and did a trial rig on the lifting bar

Looks good.....Just need a second body to keep the S-Wagon from swaying around and hitting the Scat AND DENTING THE BODY..... While it gets moved to behind the cat for the next few days......

I will get pics during the lift and post later.......(With any luck)


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## Snowy Rivers

Well now....
Yesterday afternoon was interesting to say the least.
Son in law and I rigged the S_Wagon up and went for a lift.....
We had to change the pick point and get the center of the lift back a bit before we could get the beast to leave the dirt...
Still a tad off center even with the rig in the air.

We did not have the extended lifting device on the Scat during this pick.....(Metal frame that give 2 feet more out in front of the Skid steer)

The lift went fairly smooth....WITH ONE CAVEAT......Damned S-Wagon is too heavy for the Scat to lift even without the extra extension........The picture shows the rear tires almost off the ground.....
During the move (We did two lifts...one to set the rig out away from the cat and then a second to re-rig to get the Scat Trak lifting from the passenger side) During both lifts the rear tires were bouncing on and off the dirt.....BAD  JU JU....

In order to get the Body on the cat we need the extension and be able to lift to the maximum and get in over the frame of the cat......

This brings things to a turning point.....Safety is paramount......Doing Hinky Chit is common place.....But lifting this much over capacity of the machine is not going to happen on my watch......Not going to hang folks on the back to help balance it......

I slept on the events of yesterday...........Jury is still out......

At this time I can't justify extra equipment to pick the S-Wagon as it is.....The body will be on and off several times during the remainder of the build.......
We have to use the equipment we own.......

Options
Use the single cab and the pickup bed.....(Not my first choice)
Cut the S-Wagon off at the front edge of the B pillar and close off the open cabin then mount the rear section as a separate item on the 2100 frame...( This option was thrashed about yesterday a bit and would have certain advantage....

So far the mods made to the S-Wagon (Heater box) will go right on the single cab.......
Other than this I have not put any serious $$$ in the Wagon
Try and source a second single cab  (Not seriously looking at this one)

A plus.
We have the front fenders...inner and outer plus the hood from the S-Wagon....These will all fit the single cab
The pickup box is in good shape....

I really wanted the extra passenger area....

Time to look things over....Measure and see what can be done...

A custom "Start from scratch cab" is too costly with steel prices where they are.....

I knew from the gitgo that the 4 door rig was going to be heavier.....But had not figured this much too heavy.....

Anyway.....This project has taken odd twists and turns along it's journey....So this little bump in the road is yet another hurdle to be jumped.......


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## m1west

Snowy Rivers said:


> Well now....
> Yesterday afternoon was interesting to say the least.
> Son in law and I rigged the S_Wagon up and went for a lift.....
> We had to change the pick point and get the center of the lift back a bit before we could get the beast to leave the dirt...
> Still a tad off center even with the rig in the air.
> 
> We did not have the extended lifting device on the Scat during this pick.....(Metal frame that give 2 feet more out in front of the Skid steer)
> 
> The lift went fairly smooth....WITH ONE CAVEAT......Damned S-Wagon is too heavy for the Scat to lift even without the extra extension........The picture shows the rear tires almost off the ground.....
> During the move (We did two lifts...one to set the rig out away from the cat and then a second to re-rig to get the Scat Trak lifting from the passenger side) During both lifts the rear tires were bouncing on and off the dirt.....BAD  JU JU....
> 
> In order to get the Body on the cat we need the extension and be able to lift to the maximum and get in over the frame of the cat......
> 
> This brings things to a turning point.....Safety is paramount......Doing Hinky Chit is common place.....But lifting this much over capacity of the machine is not going to happen on my watch......Not going to hang folks on the back to help balance it......
> 
> I slept on the events of yesterday...........Jury is still out......
> 
> At this time I can't justify extra equipment to pick the S-Wagon as it is.....The body will be on and off several times during the remainder of the build.......
> We have to use the equipment we own.......
> 
> Options
> Use the single cab and the pickup bed.....(Not my first choice)
> Cut the S-Wagon off at the front edge of the B pillar and close off the open cabin then mount the rear section as a separate item on the 2100 frame...( This option was thrashed about yesterday a bit and would have certain advantage....
> 
> So far the mods made to the S-Wagon (Heater box) will go right on the single cab.......
> Other than this I have not put any serious $$$ in the Wagon
> Try and source a second single cab  (Not seriously looking at this one)
> 
> A plus.
> We have the front fenders...inner and outer plus the hood from the S-Wagon....These will all fit the single cab
> The pickup box is in good shape....
> 
> I really wanted the extra passenger area....
> 
> Time to look things over....Measure and see what can be done...
> 
> A custom "Start from scratch cab" is too costly with steel prices where they are.....
> 
> I knew from the gitgo that the 4 door rig was going to be heavier.....But had not figured this much too heavy.....
> 
> Anyway.....This project has taken odd twists and turns along it's journey....So this little bump in the road is yet another hurdle to be jumped.......


Is there anything close like a tree or two you can span with something to lift it, then push the cat under it and let it down.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

That would be sweet....and I would do it in a heart beat.....

Sadly all the trees are big and tall and no limbs of any usable size.

Sadly the backyard crane company is dead in the water.....

This setup will need to be on and off a few times during the build to allow things to be fitted correctly.

I went out this morning....took a deep breath...crawled into the S-Wagon and took a good look at things......

Ah hell....Grabbed the tools and started gutting the beast....Tossing all the screws and such in small containers.....

All the inner trim is off in a pile.
Headliner is laying on the floor ready to head up to the spare bedroom for safe keeping until this debacle is sorted out.

Just before I quite for dinner THE DATA IS IN....The choice has been made....GONNA CUT THIS CRITTER IN HALF JUST AHEAD OF THE B PILLAR......

Got a couple pics.....The roof has a great stiffener across the top at the B pillar.....The pillars are stout and there is lots of places to anchor square tube and build a bulkhead......
I have some stuff that I am committed to tomorrow....but the next Cat day is gonna be getting the parts all boxed up  and things secured so they don't get lost during the changes.
Then cometh the SAWZZALL......  

Gonna layout the roof to get a nice straight line across the top just ahead of the upper stiffener......The exact location will come at the last minute after all the parts are out of the rig and I can eyeball it carefully.....

I am really hoping that this cab section can be mounted higher than the forward single cab ....Giving the folks in the back a nice view out over the cab.....

Will need to see what is available in the way of flat windshield glass that can be set into the new bulkhead with the grommet type mounting.....

I would love to be able to have wipers on that glass.....

The amount of weight that will go away with the entire front coming off should be at least half.....

We will end up with the same seating arrangement as the S10 Blazer and with the two cabs be able to handle each one separately......

The trick will be to get the front of the Blazer cabin to look decent ....There are a lot of compound shapes in that area....

But I fabricated mill machinery for a lot of years.....A torch, welder and a big hammer.....IT WILL ALL FIT.....

I am still thinking of using 3/4 plywood over steel tubing for the bulkhead......We shall see.....

I have never cut a rig in half before......Sort of like what they do when the stretch a big cadd'y and make a limo....WELL......sort of....

The Single cab on the cat has a sliding rear window....May be able to do something so the rear passengers can talk to those up front.......Things are in flux....but I like what I see so far.....I am much more upbeat than I was last night.....Yesterday was a real downer.......
More when I have it.......

Ahhhh
The front cab has crank windows....The electric rears may get changed......I have never had a crank window fail to go up when needed

These can be swapped easily.......

All in good time.....May just wire power to the rear door windows.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

GETTING SOME IDEAS TOGETHER.....For creating  the panel to close the front of the S-Wagons back half.

Some years ago I grabbed a couple of sheets of HDO plywood panels...These are a polymer/resin coated plywood used in making concrete forms.....

This stuff is tougher than hell....Paintable too......
Much more durable than regular plywood....

With a bit of creative fabrication the front panel can be made from HDO and attached to the body......


DEPENDING  on IF we can mount the rear cabin above the front cab and allow a view.....A pair of flat windshields set into the front panel might be sweet.....

A lot of maybe's here at this juncture.....But certainly worth keeping in mind and getting the pertinent information gathered up to allow the frame for the area to be built accordingly.....

I think that before we get crazy on things we need to see just how high our rig can lift the rear cabin......
Once that is a Known quantity......Then we can get a clearer picture of where any proposed windows can go...


----------



## m1west

You could put a choker higher up around 2 trees that are 10 feet or so apart with a ladder. then use 2 chain falls or comealongs lift it and push the cat under. If you cut it in half, I don't think you will like the outcome. There are a lot of backyard ways to rig it rather than cutting it.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Unfortunately trees are just not available where we can rig anything and be able to move the cat to.

The property here is not that flat...Only by the house and yard area....Get to the trees and the ground is seriously slanted.....

The cut and fabricate thing is really not that big of a hurdle....

Half my life spent in the fabrication BIZZ has some ingredients available to me that really helps my view point......

Getting the cab/s to a point that each end can be handled separately and with one person and the equipment we have is whats needed.

I do not want to end up with something that requires a crew and a lot of rigging to deal with it..
As mentioned....The cab/s will be on and off several times during the process of fitting out....

If I need into the beast I want to be able to unplug a few wires, remove a limited number of bolts and grab things with the Skid steer and lift it off and sit it on a big tire out of my way.......
Took me two weeks to get help just to do the test lift the other day......Gotta be a one person show on this deal......

Granted.....A crane, scaffolding, or improvised of such would be nice....In a shop with an overhead lift...even better.
Sadly the Scat Trak is our go to rig to lift stuff........

Yeah....this is not what I had hoped for...simply because of the extra work....But there are some nice perks that present themselves with a modular cab.........


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Spent time carefully scoping out the process of cutting the S Wagon in half.

NOT ONLY is this feasible.....Pretty much a walk in the park.....

The front door latch pins holes can be reinforced and a single bolt D ring added to be a permanent lift point....Both sides.
The rear lift points are also going to be permanent.......

Exactly where ....not sure yet....May have something to do with the rear cab mounts ?????

Needs to be a simple set up that will not interfere with mounting and or removing the cabin...and be permanent...

When I need to lift....I do not want to have to go looking for them.....

Single bolt D ring....May end up using the tube that we used on the recent lift.....No need to waste it....We will see....

The inner bucket seat bolt brackets are spot welded to the floor....These can come out easy by drilling out the welds and then adding these to the single cab that is on the cat now....

Just good use of materials....

Next work is to get the body level both ways so the floor can be laid out for cutting.......


Things will move quick once the cuts are made......

I am pretty sure that the outer edge of the cabin where the new front goes in can be massaged to look very nice....Function and weather tight are the first priority though.......Function and durability    yeah


----------



## Snowy Rivers

A great working day this morning....Cool and cloudy...

Time to make things happen.....
Got the Cabin all marked for the rough cuts......Went at it like we were killing snakes....

Took about 30 minutes to get "Separation"

Dragged the forward section off and out of my way....I need to get the heater box off of it and get it on the Original cab.

I cut LONG on the rear section to give materials to be able to trim up exactly where it needs to be.......

The rear doors fit sweet....The rear structure is very sound.
Doing a bit opf snooping to see if a damaged single cab with a good rear panel can be scared up
Use the rear cab panel with the window as the forward bulkhead.

Just have to see what shakes out.....

Several options


I cut the carpet long so it will go back into the rear seat area and fit in well....

Tomorrow I want to finish up the lifting rig and get things ready to lift the   "1/2-10"   Or should be call it the "Half S..."

Overall I am very pleased with how this part went and once the rig is closer to the slab and tools we can get it leveled up and get going on it.

I would like to get this thing closed up before summer is over and the rains hit.......

A good look at the roof after the head liner was removed got me a great look at the Rivnuts that hold the roof rack on....

The rack is a bit nasty.....Very seriously thinking about removing it totally.

I need to use the orbital sander on the roof and treat the rusty spots.....Thinking about doing a "ROLL ON BEDLINER" UP TOP
With the rack out of the way....It will be much easier to work on the area...

This will make a good rugged surface.....
All for now


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Well....Here it is....The BIG CUT + 24hrs.....

I  am still pleased with the decision to make the cab "Modular"  

Yesterday got a bit sideways around here later in the day so not much more got done on the project.......

After SLEEPING on the design parameters for the front bulkhead ...The sides and the floor area are going to be very easy to do....The area right at the roof line is a bit of a grey area as yet.....but a couple ideas have surfaced.

I want the bulkhead (If we go with either plywood or HDO ) to be removable easily IF it should need to be replaced.....

Getting a good weather tight seal being the goal.....The sides and the riser along the floor are a simple seal strip ......The top is likely going to take a deep flange drip rail and a foam seal at the top at the roof line.

The B pillar has a PAD of some sorts between the arch at the top and the roof sheet metal.....
A formed Aluminum angle POP RIVETED to the sheet metal roof that sticks down over the front bulkhead with a foam seal in there should be enough to keep things weather tight......

I think this thing will evolve as it goes along and come together nicely....

FrankenParts are always an interesting challenge....When trying to make these odd ducks work....

The plan now is to finish up the lift rigging and get this bad boy such that it can be lifted on an even keel without issue.

Yesterday ..The last little parts I ordered for lifting DID NOT all show up....Still have two links coming....Today I HOPE

A bit of welding on the rear lift bracket is today's little ditty.....
I need to clean out all the remaining plastic trim parts and the many little containers of screws and such.....These parts will not be going back in this season....
We got a bit of a squirt of light rain last night....Just enough to dampen the ground.....So I need to get these areas picked up and secure.......

The chunk of carpet that came out behind the front seats back to where the cargo area piece starts is dirty as sin....Get that bad boy out on the slab and power wash it......

Cutting the carpet pad is just nasty.....That stuff tears and rips....ARRRRRRGH !!!!!!

Before winter shut down a good washout of the interior is in order....After removing all the interior trim panels IT IS DUSTY FILTHY IN THERE......

Maybe a batch of Mr Clean and a rag to make things better and remove the stuff that makes the bad smells ......

I will get more pics and whatever as it happens..

All for now


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Lift rigging complete now....All the final tid bits to be able to SECURELY hook up the cabin  to the skid steer is here....
These lift point should give us the ability to lift things evenly......

Next plan is to move the Rear half back up along side the Cat and then get to work on constructing the front bulkhead......

With a bit of luck the "Rear cab" just might get finished by the time rain flies.......
This entire change in plans was certainly not anything that I wanted to see....But Chit happens....

With the rear side windows being electric and also electric door locks too......Looking over the wiring diagrams last night 
(Wire harness cut ahead of the body cut to give us something to work with..

Going to wire the windows and door locks such the the windows can be operated from the rear.....Door locks will be lock/unlock capable from the front cab.......Doors lock from the rear manually only (That was factory)

Really nice to have  factory wiring manual.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

A great morning is has been.

Grabbed the Scat Trak and hooked up the Spreader bar lift rig.

Hooked up the S-Wagon and did a quick test pick.....Needed to adjust the slider adjustment Waaaaaaaaaaaay back to the rear...
Took 3-4 fine adjustments to get it level.....Sweeeeeeeeeeeeet.

I did a low level lift and romped the scat a bit to see how well it was going to handle the load.... 

Raised the bucket all the way to the stops and .....Definitely OK

The rig swiveled around with the tail gate facing the Scat.....Then it became clear.....We will likely not need to worry about using the extension to set the cabin on the cat.....

The rear section can go on over the back end of the cat with ease.....

Some piccy's of the lifts.....

Sorting out the wiring more.....Ordered up a nice plastic enclosure to place the switches to run the rear electric windows and the electric door locks.

Scarfed the switches out of the front part of the cab......Switches are all usable.....
The plan is to wire things up so the front cab plugs into the rear section using a 9 pin heavy trailer plug and probably a 6 or 7 pin plug

Rear lights on the cab...Stop, turn, tail and backup.
The Window controls and door locks.

The cabin is pretty well leveled up now and readily accessible with the welder and other tools.....

Next comes the layout and framing of the front bulkhead......

Will be figuring out the materials needed to get the framing done .....

The cabin top and floor need to get a FINAL CUT....Once things get closer.....

At any rate  ...... There will need to be an extension piece added to the rear of the cat chassis to allow a place for the rear cab mounts to fasten......
Another little item to think about.....A rear heater.....Probably see what is available as an add on unit.....


Overall...A great day with good progress......

Still not sure about raising the cab high enough for rear passengers to see over the front cab....I had the cabin as high as I could go......That was looking pretty sketchy......I think the the rear cabin needs to be just high enough that the rear mounts on the front cab can be accessed......NO MORE.  about a foot....give or take....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Not a great deal going on...
Doing a lot of disassembly on the remaining front section of the S- wagon.
Getting the switches for the electric windows, the door locks and the attendant wiring and relays.

All this stuff will be needed to connect the windows and door locks on the rear cabin......

Grabbed a break and dragged out the carpet from the rear seat area and laid it out on the patio and soaked it up well ....added some good soap and scrubbed the hell out of it.....Flushed out a ton of nasty dirt...

Hung that bad boy out to drip dry in the sun.....All put away now...Actually looks pretty good......

Back to the Remains of the front half....Yarded out the tilt column (That should sell quick)

Figured I might as well  strip all the goodies off the old carcass before it goes to the bone heap...

Also got all the wiring, relay and switches to run the electric mirrors.....
These  items will be a real plus with a set of big AZZ tow type mirrors ..
The stock mirrors on the front cab are a joke......

I want to be able to see the tracks all the way back and a good deal to the sides....

Still need to remove the front inner seat brackets from the floor (Spot welded in) The two inner rear ones came out easy.....
These will make getting the bucket seats in the front cab a breeze....

So.....The rear cabin area will get the original carpet back in place and some rubber mats over it to help manage slush and stuff.
The front cab is going to get a full rubber mat....The carpet is trashed anyway.....

Keep ya updated as things go along


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Pretty mundane stuff at the moment.....
With the final goodies stripped off of the S-Wagon front section it was time to police up the area and turn the attention to the after section and HOW THE !@#$ ARE WE GONNA BUILD THE FRONT BULKHEAD

Spent a couple hours with a tape measure, a pencil and a doodle pad looking over the remains of the "Front door" pinch weld area..

Got a plan now.

Need to make a pattern for the "Pinch weld extender"  This is 4" flat bar x 1/8" thick.....The front edge has to be straight up and down and then it must follow the curves of the pinch weld.....

This is not  a hard process, but a pattern made from an easy to cut material is the BUZZ WORD HERE....

The pinch weld area has a lazy S curve in it as well as a slight taper and the needed material is narrower at the bottom (3" wide) and wider at the top (4" wide)

Once the pattern is made then the steel flat can be cut to match and with any luck things will all come together well.....

Things get interesting once this part is in place......The bulkhead cross tubes are a walk in the park.

Fun part is to get a nice clean looking "Finish cover strip" that will follow the shape of the front of the door  and taper in and blend with the new bulkhead.......This will cover the door hinges and the B pillar ....

The Cover is just aesthetics, buttttttttttttttttttt.....Might as well make it look good besides being functional.....

The cover material will be either HDPE or UHMW   Poly.....This stuff handles weather really well .

1/4" thick will suffice......
Getting the cover on the area will be the tricky part.....At present the plan is to weld  pieces of 3/16" flat bar to the pinch weld extender and angle them back and out towards the edge of the door...

The Poly bends and forms easily ....so it will just be a matter getting the angle of the dangle right and then welding the parts on.....

At this juncture the plan is to make a pattern (From the same material as used on the pinch weld pattern)  and possibly bolt the little steel flat pieces to the pattern and use the assembly to align things so the fit is proper to weld things.

The entire plan is starting to come into focus a lot clearer now.....

Still hoping that the fall weather will give me enough time to get the bulkhead done.......

Then there is the body mounts to get this entire package onto the 2100 chassis.....

Looking this over briefly suggests all is pretty basic stuff

The front body mount for the aft section will be very nearly like the rear one on the cab in place now....The difference will be the elevation.....The aft cabin MUST be slightly higher to allow access to the rear body mount on the front cab......(Be able to remove the front  cab to service things if need be)

The next mount is where the lifting rig is bolted on at present......Then the rear most mounts are going to take some creativity .....There will need to be an extension to the 2100 frame....the exact arrangement is still a bit fuzzy....

The middle mount (Current lift rig location) Must be such the the lift rig can be slid in and out for removal of the cabin....The brackets to the frame may be similar to the others (Long square tube)  The tubes will also be a perfect place to mount steps for ingress and egress of the cab/s

Then there is the Veranda across the back of the cat to allow access to the tail gate/hatch area.

Everything effects something else down the line....Change orders have been the norm on this build....I do not see this being much different from here on out.

Air tanks for the air system must go in under the cab/s......I have the tanks and they have brackets on them....We will make whatever is needed to work with the tanks.......

The engine exhaust system is in the center of the chassis...The large 4" tubes out the back will need to be longer to get the pipes out the back of the cat.....Possibly Chrome tips.......The only issue is with the rise of the exhaust from the belly of the cat up and out over the rear axle.

Speaking of the REAR AXLE .....Access is needed to do band adjustments and or ???? in there too.....

The higher mounting of the rear cab MAY be sufficient to cover this.......

The Fuel tanks......

The fuel tanks are going to mount inside the wheel house openings WHY....Because this spot is on both sides of the cat and it is a great little cupboard to stuff something into...  And will be easily accessed to fuel up....

Plumbing for the fuel system.....Electrical wiring for the fuel gauges

Yes....This stuff needs to be sorted out....Once the rear cab is mounted we will be able to see wassssssup in the way of places to put stuff......

Just a lot of goodies to try and get situated....

The radiator mounting location is looking pretty good to allow the original core support to fit well and not cause issues.....
The original radiator cover/cat nose piece  was MIA so a suitable replacement will need to be fabricated to allow the S-Wagon core support to mount on top....(Tilt front end is still on track)

Transmission cooler....Oil to air type.....Somewhere in the frontal air flow that will not be plugged up with snow.....
Oil cooler lines....Yeah
Transmission shifter and cable assembly
]
All the engine wiring....
And the list goes on.......

Every move leads down a path of possible interference with something else.....

More time studying stuff than actually beating on iron or turning wrenches.......
Engineer/imagineer
Welder
Fabricator
Machinist
Plumber
Mechanic
Electrician
Engine builder
Tranny builder

A whole handful of hats have been needed along the way on this beast.......

Fun stuff.....


----------



## m1west

Snowy Rivers said:


> Pretty mundane stuff at the moment.....
> With the final goodies stripped off of the S-Wagon front section it was time to police up the area and turn the attention to the after section and HOW THE !@#$ ARE WE GONNA BUILD THE FRONT BULKHEAD
> 
> Spent a couple hours with a tape measure, a pencil and a doodle pad looking over the remains of the "Front door" pinch weld area..
> 
> Got a plan now.
> 
> Need to make a pattern for the "Pinch weld extender"  This is 4" flat bar x 1/8" thick.....The front edge has to be straight up and down and then it must follow the curves of the pinch weld.....
> 
> This is not  a hard process, but a pattern made from an easy to cut material is the BUZZ WORD HERE....
> 
> The pinch weld area has a lazy S curve in it as well as a slight taper and the needed material is narrower at the bottom (3" wide) and wider at the top (4" wide)
> 
> Once the pattern is made then the steel flat can be cut to match and with any luck things will all come together well.....
> 
> Things get interesting once this part is in place......The bulkhead cross tubes are a walk in the park.
> 
> Fun part is to get a nice clean looking "Finish cover strip" that will follow the shape of the front of the door  and taper in and blend with the new bulkhead.......This will cover the door hinges and the B pillar ....
> 
> The Cover is just aesthetics, buttttttttttttttttttt.....Might as well make it look good besides being functional.....
> 
> The cover material will be either HDPE or UHMW   Poly.....This stuff handles weather really well .
> 
> 1/4" thick will suffice......
> Getting the cover on the area will be the tricky part.....At present the plan is to weld  pieces of 3/16" flat bar to the pinch weld extender and angle them back and out towards the edge of the door...
> 
> The Poly bends and forms easily ....so it will just be a matter getting the angle of the dangle right and then welding the parts on.....
> 
> At this juncture the plan is to make a pattern (From the same material as used on the pinch weld pattern)  and possibly bolt the little steel flat pieces to the pattern and use the assembly to align things so the fit is proper to weld things.
> 
> The entire plan is starting to come into focus a lot clearer now.....
> 
> Still hoping that the fall weather will give me enough time to get the bulkhead done.......
> 
> Then there is the body mounts to get this entire package onto the 2100 chassis.....
> 
> Looking this over briefly suggests all is pretty basic stuff
> 
> The front body mount for the aft section will be very nearly like the rear one on the cab in place now....The difference will be the elevation.....The aft cabin MUST be slightly higher to allow access to the rear body mount on the front cab......(Be able to remove the front  cab to service things if need be)
> 
> The next mount is where the lifting rig is bolted on at present......Then the rear most mounts are going to take some creativity .....There will need to be an extension to the 2100 frame....the exact arrangement is still a bit fuzzy....
> 
> The middle mount (Current lift rig location) Must be such the the lift rig can be slid in and out for removal of the cabin....The brackets to the frame may be similar to the others (Long square tube)  The tubes will also be a perfect place to mount steps for ingress and egress of the cab/s
> 
> Then there is the Veranda across the back of the cat to allow access to the tail gate/hatch area.
> 
> Everything effects something else down the line....Change orders have been the norm on this build....I do not see this being much different from here on out.
> 
> Air tanks for the air system must go in under the cab/s......I have the tanks and they have brackets on them....We will make whatever is needed to work with the tanks.......
> 
> The engine exhaust system is in the center of the chassis...The large 4" tubes out the back will need to be longer to get the pipes out the back of the cat.....Possibly Chrome tips.......The only issue is with the rise of the exhaust from the belly of the cat up and out over the rear axle.
> 
> Speaking of the REAR AXLE .....Access is needed to do band adjustments and or ???? in there too.....
> 
> The higher mounting of the rear cab MAY be sufficient to cover this.......
> 
> The Fuel tanks......
> 
> The fuel tanks are going to mount inside the wheel house openings WHY....Because this spot is on both sides of the cat and it is a great little cupboard to stuff something into...  And will be easily accessed to fuel up....
> 
> Plumbing for the fuel system.....Electrical wiring for the fuel gauges
> 
> Yes....This stuff needs to be sorted out....Once the rear cab is mounted we will be able to see wassssssup in the way of places to put stuff......
> 
> Just a lot of goodies to try and get situated....
> 
> The radiator mounting location is looking pretty good to allow the original core support to fit well and not cause issues.....
> The original radiator cover/cat nose piece  was MIA so a suitable replacement will need to be fabricated to allow the S-Wagon core support to mount on top....(Tilt front end is still on track)
> 
> Transmission cooler....Oil to air type.....Somewhere in the frontal air flow that will not be plugged up with snow.....
> Oil cooler lines....Yeah
> Transmission shifter and cable assembly
> ]
> All the engine wiring....
> And the list goes on.......
> 
> Every move leads down a path of possible interference with something else.....
> 
> More time studying stuff than actually beating on iron or turning wrenches.......
> Engineer/imagineer
> Welder
> Fabricator
> Machinist
> Plumber
> Mechanic
> Electrician
> Engine builder
> Tranny builder
> 
> A whole handful of hats have been needed along the way on this beast.......
> 
> Fun stuff.....


if you had spent the amount of time building a tube frame aluminum skin cab, that would look similar to the OEM as you have put into the blazer body, it would likely be done already. Your project not mine just my $.02


----------



## Snowy Rivers

The COST $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Yes...A custom cab can always be better....
The Blazer is Free so far...Sold a bunch of stuff off of it yesterday and today....The standard cab paid for itself within a week.....

Time is the big issue now.......
Once the new front bulkhead is completed we are getting close.

That one piece of tubing to build the lift bar was $70 plus travel $$ to go get it....

Materials are off in the ozones expensive now.......

I paid $700 for the Blazer and so far after selling  the Chassis, the tilt steering column and the front doors I have returned $1200 to the coffers.....And I have a cool little cabin for my cat......There is a grand method to the madness....

Just a bit more fooling with things and we will have a pretty nicely pimped out rear cabin.....

Has a nice head liner, door panels, bench seat, carpeted floor, power windows, power locks.....

How can you beat it.....????

Pretty much all GM TOO....GM power, GM cabs, GM drive shaft......

And parts are available easily.

The OC-12 diffy is the odd duck....

My feeling is...It is not the destination....It is the journey....


The front cab is mostly ready to go.....Just need to swap in the bucket seats from the S-Wagon.....
Dash is a regular gauge type.....
The air steering controls are all in and mounted to the column......
The wiring all interfaces with the rear cabin as far as lights....

I am ahead of the game $$$$ wise....Sure there will be other costs and such.....The engine had a cash outlay.....

The cabs are pretty much a freebe at this point......and the creature comforts are decent too......

Ah well....We all have our own ways of going about things.....

I am a big fan of re-purposing stuff.....especially when I can high grade things and then offload the unwanted goodies to pay for my stuff.......


----------



## m1west

Snowy Rivers said:


> The COST $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
> 
> Yes...A custom cab can always be better....
> The Blazer is Free so far...Sold a bunch of stuff off of it yesterday and today....The standard cab paid for itself within a week.....
> 
> Time is the big issue now.......
> Once the new front bulkhead is completed we are getting close.
> 
> That one piece of tubing to build the lift bar was $70 plus travel $$ to go get it....
> 
> Materials are off in the ozones expensive now.......
> 
> I paid $700 for the Blazer and so far after selling  the Chassis, the tilt steering column and the front doors I have returned $1200 to the coffers.....And I have a cool little cabin for my cat......There is a grand method to the madness....
> 
> Just a bit more fooling with things and we will have a pretty nicely pimped out rear cabin.....
> 
> Has a nice head liner, door panels, bench seat, carpeted floor, power windows, power locks.....
> 
> How can you beat it.....????
> 
> Pretty much all GM TOO....GM power, GM cabs, GM drive shaft......
> 
> And parts are available easily.
> 
> The OC-12 diffy is the odd duck....
> 
> My feeling is...It is not the destination....It is the journey....
> 
> 
> The front cab is mostly ready to go.....Just need to swap in the bucket seats from the S-Wagon.....
> Dash is a regular gauge type.....
> The air steering controls are all in and mounted to the column......
> The wiring all interfaces with the rear cabin as far as lights....
> 
> I am ahead of the game $$$$ wise....Sure there will be other costs and such.....The engine had a cash outlay.....
> 
> The cabs are pretty much a freebe at this point......and the creature comforts are decent too......
> 
> Ah well....We all have our own ways of going about things.....
> 
> I am a big fan of re-purposing stuff.....especially when I can high grade things and then offload the unwanted goodies to pay for my stuff.......


Just giving you a little ribbing, waiting for the result. Do you think you will get it on before the snow flies? got 2-3 months before that happens.


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## Snowy Rivers

I appreciate the poking....It keeps me motivated.....
As far as a time frame for any particular happening......No idea.....My goal is to try and get the rear cabin weather tight before the rains hit.

My health has not been that great of late....Nothing serious....Mostly just the ravages of 70 years on the clock and having had a handful of strokes and a bout with Kidney cancer......

No biggy ya know  
So just because I want to get something done does not mean it will happen.....

I try to set a goal of some certain thing that needs doing....Even if it is only figuring out wiring or sourcing some needed items.
I hate letting a day go by without doing something......but that happens more than I would like......

There is still a lot of work to do....

Finish the engine (Have most of the parts)
I need to rebuild the TH350 tranny.....These are simple to do.....been through many back in the day
Just one step at a time.

I want to get the body stuff done and pretty much complete so I can get them off the chassis and set aside.
Then go after the mechanical stuff.

The OC12 is complete (Center section) The axle tubes need to go on and the axle bearings replaced and the axles installed

I have left these off simply to save space in the shop......
Drive shaft parts are all here.....The long section is rebuilt    (The long section has two double cardan joints with the bolt flange at the rear end)   

The short front section needs to be cut to length and the center support bearing bracket put into the tub.........This is pretty easy stuff.....can wait until the body is back off and out of the way.....
The "Double Double" arrangement is a sweet way to negate the worries about driveshaft angles ....At least to a great degree...

The rear end has to go where it has to go and the engine and tranny has to set where it is.......
So having two CV joints on the main section will keep things happy......I do not know at this time exactly what the angles on the shafts are....but the are very shallow......The main thing is that there is not anything weird like a compound angle or ???? to fight with.....

The original setup from Thiokol was a simple shaft with two single cardan joints.......

Given the high speed that this shaft must spin even at the fairly slow pace the cat moves (Maybe 12-15 mph) I wanted to be sure that we don't get bad vibes.....

The shaft I am using came from an S10 EXTREME.....(Long bed extended cab)
These shafts were notorious for issues.....This said..The issue was that the centering ball in the joints need to be greased, and folks would not do it.

Once the ball wears out the shafts vibrate bad

The center ball takes a needle greaser to get lube into it.....Most lube shops and or home mechanics do not understand.....

The standard joints are non grease types ...so folks assume they do not need to do anything.....Hence the center ball gets left to dry out and go away.....

I replaced all the parts with serviceable stuff...Zirks on all points.

The Double  Double adds a bit of weight.....But likely no more than the original shaft that was in the beast..
The factory shaft was 1410 joints on a big tube..

The super low gears in the cat really reduces the torque load on the shaft.....So I decided to use the S10 EXTREME unit
Also ...again, all easy to get parts.-

Trying really hard to keep with off the shelf and easy to find parts.......

The engine is nothing more than assembly work on the short block.....
The Vortec heads need to go to the milling machine and get the STEAM HOLES between the cylinders drilled through the fire deck and into the water jacket.
400 SBC have Siamese cylinders with no water between them....The areas at the top between the cylinders will form steam pockets if the holes are not drilled......Factor 400 heads have the holes.......Also the factory heads on the 400 were junk.....

The Vortec heads I scared up are in nice shape......Off of a 1998 3500 truck.....

Still need a carburetor type intake manifold for that fits the vortec heads.....Just have not popped the $$ for one yet is all.....

And then of course are the day to day things....Living.....That always seems to get in the way of CAT TIME...


----------



## m1west

Make a good punch list, put some time on it everyday and it will get done. I normally have 3-5 projects going all the time and still running a business. Hour here hour there and it seems to get done. Waiting on parts, work on the other project. This summer so far, I rebuilt the front porch, bbq enclosure, fence with gate ,chicken enclosure with coop, half acre of fencing with a fabricated gate, bought a pony, put a new roof on the cabin and worked almost everyday with a work trip to Washington state in the middle. All that got done before I started work in the morning, sunup to 7am. except the cabin roof, that was 4 -12 hour days. Next weekend, back to the cabin to finish the roof ridge cap and start the new flooring. Get after it!


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Today's " Punch list " 
Got the pattern made to add the steel to the pinch weld area.....
Started off with blue masking tape and then transferred to the white board.....First pattern needed tweaking.....Made some adjustments and fine tuned the second one......GOOD TO GO.

Really great dealing with a body built by GM (Any major mfg) the pattern fits the opposite side perfectly as well.

As soon as possible I will get the steel piece and cut these bad boys out......

Going to line these all up and then stitch them into the pinch weld area....Paint the area and then seal the lap with seam sealer to keep it water tight.....
Once the pinch weld extenders are in....Then the floor gets cut nice and straight  3/4" back from the extenders....

A piece of sheet steel will weld to the floor sheet just below the lowest part of the flow pan and up at least 4" onto the extenders.....

A  square tube goes across to fasting thre bulkhead sheet to.....

I am looking for a rear slider window that can be mounted in the bulkhead.....A bit lower than normal height.

The rear cabin needs to be about 18" higher than the front cab to allow access to the rear cab mounts on the front cab...

Also drilled out the front bucket seat spot welds....These will allow the bucket seats to go right into the front cab.

I need to stop off at Harbor Freight and pick up a few deep reach vise tongs.....My largest ones will not reach the pinch weld at the widest part.....

I want to be sure the extenders are clamped tight before welding....



Some pics

My biggest issue...I am good for a few hours in the morning....Then I'm all done.....The old bones are just used up.
Between the ravages of 5 or so strokes and a nasty bout with cancer......
The strokes really kick ones azz....Terrible fatigue.....
And with the fatigue comes a serious case of attitude....

But we keep trying...


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Got to town today and stopped off at the steel yard.
I wanted a couple pieces of 1/8" x 6" x 43" flat stock to cut the pinch weld extenders from.

They only had full lengths of the 1/8" x 6"  plus cuts  $$$$$

So I walked out in the warehouse and sorted through the odd stock rack.

BINGO
Found two 5-7/8" x 10 gauge x 6' long

Far cheaper....
We will have some odd chunks left over....to stnd up in the corner....Likely find a use for them.

Tomorrows project is to get the needed parts cut using the new pattern.....Yessssssssssssssssssssssssss

And Harbor Freight had 3 of the long vise tongs on the shelf.....Grabbed them.
These were made in Tiawan....Far nicer than the others they have...

Also grabbed a couple packs of jig saw blades.....The odd shaped side has got to be cut....

I thought about using the Plasma cutter.....Sawing will likely assure zero warping


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Got after the 10 gauge steel before breakfast.
Cut the pieces to length....Then traced the pattern to the steel.

The Bosh jig saw did a fine job.....

Then came the fun part....A set of rolls would have made life easy....Had to do it by hand ....Clamped the piece to the cat frame and reefed on it a little at a time to get the bends started..

Then started clamping the part to the pinch weld with the vise tongs..

Still a really nasty beast....Very ornery critter...

Rolled out the "FIRE WAND" and heated the part dull red every 3 inches all the way down to let things relax.....

Still need to massage one spot on the bend area to get the steel to fit into the pinch weld nice and tight all the way down.

Went across town and grabbed a couple RV windows from a used/surplus outfit.

These are sliders....Will give some view to the folks in the back seat.

As soon as the new steel is in ....then we get to cut the floor to the final cut.....

Getting decent windows at affordable prices is a tough call.....New windows are $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

These are scratch and dent stuff.....Something was blemished and they were removed from the RV and replaced.

Most of these windows will not be seen....especially the side that faces the forward cabin......

The windows are reversible ....I can mount them so the sliders align with the rear window in the front cab.....

One of those donuts that goes between canopy's  and rear sliders will make it such that the rear crew can chat with the head end crew.......


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Mad a bit of good progress today.
Got the new steel piece finished uyp and fitted well.....Laid out the final location for the floor and the roof to be cut.

Notched out the floor and the roof....We can come back after the other side is done and get a good layout on the remaining floor panel and the roof.

This will allow good reference points to get a clean straight cut across both the roof and the floor....

The new piece welded in easily.....The 10 gauge holds the fire easily and allows a quick sneak onto the thin body metal...


----------



## m1west

Snowy Rivers said:


> Mad a bit of good progress today.
> Got the new steel piece finished uyp and fitted well.....Laid out the final location for the floor and the roof to be cut.
> 
> Notched out the floor and the roof....We can come back after the other side is done and get a good layout on the remaining floor panel and the roof.
> 
> This will allow good reference points to get a clean straight cut across both the roof and the floor....
> 
> The new piece welded in easily.....The 10 gauge holds the fire easily and allows a quick sneak onto the thin body metal...


Get after it snowy


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## Snowy Rivers

I am thinking that this plan is going to play out pretty much as I have envisioned it would....

Once the front bulkhead is done....Then we can rig it up and start in on the body mounts.

I have all the original metal body mount parts/bolts and scared up OEM rubber parts for the mounts.

The forward mounts are close to the B PILLAR....Then the next one is where the tube comes out of the wheel house ( Lift rig) and the last ones are just inside of the tail gate area....

Not sure we need all that many mounts....But it will not hurt anything.....

One piece at a time.......
Actually I will really be happy when this fabricating is done and I can get into building the engine.....Far more fun...
Even  the automatic tranny is fun to rebuild......

The one job that is going to be bloody work....TRACKS.......big and heavy...


----------



## m1west

winter work


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Yeah.....

The tracks will need the outdoors to set up the assembly bench to drill the belts and add some holes to the grousers.
Need a metric buttload of bolts and nuts......

But the trade deal last summer (Started the year before) yielded two complete tracks (Grousers and tire guides)
One track had two complete sets of hinges.....These are the heavy ones......So we will have enough hinges to do both tracks using two 12" belts on both tracks.

Plenty of good tire guides.....Enough Gen 2 for almost all the grousers......I have a small number of the gen 3 tire guides.....Wish we had enough for all the spots.....

Beggars can't be choosy ......


Today saw the RH pinch weld extender cut, formed, fit up, located and welded into the chassis.

Tomorrows task will be to finish cutting the floor pan and the last little bit of the roof line....

This will put us in the sweet spot.

Next comes the sheet steel the fits the floor pan and comes up the pinch weld extender about 3 inches.....(Plywood bulkhead will lap over this metal at the bottom )
Starting to look good.....Warm and fuzzy thing ya know......

Getting this new steel in has not been all that bad of a job.....I had reservations at first as to how well it would go....

A set of rolls to form the bends would have been handy....BUT BRUTE FORCE WON THE BATTLE....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Made some good progress today.
Roof line and the floor are now all cut to finished dimensions ......

Pretty good sized chunk of floor came off....Ready for the scrap....

Straight edge across the cut in the floor.....Good enough for now....Once the lower upright is cut and ready to go in....Will likely need a tad bit of buffing off any high spots so the piece fits as tight as possible to the floor pans...

Decided against welding to the floor pans.....Will make up some angle clips and pop rivet them to the floor and weld them to the steel upright 6" flat....I had thought about bolting the brackets....Sadly there is a doubler piece in this area that prevents getting in to hold the nuts... 1/4" steel pop rivets will work fine....Since I  have a big azz rivet tool with long handles....

Then we can hit the seams with seam sealer.....Nuff said.

One piece at a time....Starting to look like we know wassssup with this idea.....


----------



## m1west

get that puppy up there and mounted, I gonna have to make you a schedule


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Yeah.....That's what I need....A REAL HONEST SCHEDULE   

Today started off with a rip and a bang..../Until I figured out that the steel yard was closed for the holiday..

OK....WELL !@#$%^&*

Ah ...plan B

Took the two left over pieces from the materials used to make the pinch weld extenders.
Welded them together to make a piece long enough for the front piece....Yessss.. we had enough to keep busy today..

Got the lower part cut and fit....

A lot of hand work to get stuff in where it needs to go....

I need to get a piece of 1/8" x 1-1/2" flat bar to fit to the contour of the floor....

Then temporarily fasten it to the floor up snug against the 10 gauge piece....Then skip weld it to the 10 gauge.....

Will fasten the piece to the floor with sheet metal screws at first....Then after the part is ready for final install drill the holes out to 1/4" and pop rivet things in.....The ends are 1-1/2" x 3/16 angle...These bolt into the pinch weld extender.....I am done with fighting the painted and galvanized floor panels.....Galv is nasty to weld.....Not gonna do it....

A few pics


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## m1west

Steel yard closed , now your another day behind.


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## Snowy Rivers

Nope....Scrounged through my short stock rack.....Had plenty to keep going...  
Today was a good day.....
Got the lower panels little brackets drilled and the pinch weld extender drilled as well....The lower panel fits in well.

Then off to the steel yard and got some flat stock to form to fit the floors humps bumps and such....

A bit of black smithing and we now have the flange to bolt the lower panel to the floor....

Tomorrow morning with any luck we can get the front panel back in and then get the lower flange in place and screwed to the floor and then welded to the panel......

Just tedious time consuming fitting.......

While figuring out a thing or two I grabbed a tape measure and checked out the opening for the plywood..

Not sure Why I assumed the bulkhead would take more than one sheet of plywood...

Good news....Total height of the opening is 47".......One sheet .......  Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet



A few pics

The front panel now has its mounting ears drilled and welded on....
The formed flange is drilled.....

Once the lower panel is complete.....Things can move along a bit faster.....

I also got the material to do the top flange at the roof while at the steel yard.

They did not have any 4 x 4 x 1/8" angle.....But they did have a chunk of 12 gauge that was 9" wide and 5 feet long.

The $$$ were agreeable and they put a nice 90 degree bend in it.....So we now have the material to cap the roof/top corner.

Also got a 1" square tube for one of the cross tubes.....I need to figure out the elevation of the two windows before getting any more cross tubes......


----------



## m1west

You need to get that up there and mounted before the snow flies, Then you can build the motor and trans over the winter in the garage. If you get with it you can also work on the wiring and controls in the cab. Tic toc tic toc


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## Snowy Rivers

Yeah buddy

Sounds good
Today saw the lower panel welded to the black smithed pieces on the floor....
Made it over to Home depot and got a sheet of plywood....and some paint to cover the wood sheet.....
I grabbed a piece of the original interior trim from the S-Wagon and had the color matched....Will paint the inside of he plywood bulkhead so it matches the rest of the interior.....Just because....
We are under a severe fire watch around here....Had to help the daughter get the big horse trailer readied in case we get a fire and have to get the hell outta Dodge...

Between door handles full of Beeeees that are really pissy this time of year (A snort of Brake Kleen takes care of beeeees and wasps real quick) and a few other derailments the day just went away.....But work was done....

So the plan is looking good.....Lots of room in the aft seating area.....With the front seats all gone there is a ton of room....
I have actual pictures that we were doing stuff with the cat......  

Oscar is always ready to help.....

I really need to get some hard numbers on where the front windows are going to sit so I can locate the lower cross tube.

I don't want to have to redo stuff.....
The rear cabin MUST MOUNT above the front cab high enough that I can get at the rear body mounts on the front cab.....

Also want the front windows on the rear cabin to line up well with the rear slider window on the front cab......

Just little crap that eats up time.......

But we should be able to get the cabin closed up before rain flies.......


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Yesterday was productive...Albeit interrupted with stuff we needed to get handled pending Red Flag fire warnings and possible power shut off due to high winds and such


Got the front bulkhead panel cut to size and fitted into the cabin.
Still quite a bit of little crap to deal with.....The roof cap seal plates and the side caps the cover the joint of the wood panel to the pinch weld extenders......

Not sure how much will get done today due to this weather BS......

Going to try and get the panel painted while it is still very dry......

Still need to add one more cross tube to the mid section of the opening.....and several angle clips to secure the panel so it follows the  contour of the pinch weld extenders.

Just a note to the curious ....The vise grips are clamped to a pair of 1/4" bolts that thread into the lower plate..

These were added to allow the panel to sit on a location that was "Repeatable" and would hold the panel secure during the tracing of the inside of the cab against the wood panel and to allow the panel to slip in for mounting and not have to fight with clamps and other BS to irritate me...


After the panel was cut it took minimal sanding with the belt sander to "Tweak" things to fit well.

A little sanding at the roof crown was really all that was needed.....Basically only the RH side from center over to the edge had maybe 1/8" of an error......

Not going to cut the holes for the windows at this time....We can get that later ..I am thinking that after the cabin is on it's mount and located.....Then we can get a spot on location using the rear slider window access to mark the center of the front cabin rear window......THEN IT WILL END UP RIGHT......

The top corners of the roof will take some finesse to achieve a good weather tight seal.
Last night it became really clear that this area was going to need to be a little fabrication to cover the corner paired with the roof cap piece that runs across the entire crown.

Just a bit of a Richard.....not bad.....just take a bit of time to get it right....
Then the side pieces to cover the edges of the pinch weld extenders and onto the wood panel.......

If you don't see me pop in for a day or two.....POWER OUT.....May not happen.....BUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT....


----------



## m1west

Snowy Rivers said:


> Yesterday was productive...Albeit interrupted with stuff we needed to get handled pending Red Flag fire warnings and possible power shut off due to high winds and such
> 
> 
> Got the front bulkhead panel cut to size and fitted into the cabin.
> Still quite a bit of little crap to deal with.....The roof cap seal plates and the side caps the cover the joint of the wood panel to the pinch weld extenders......
> 
> Not sure how much will get done today due to this weather BS......
> 
> Going to try and get the panel painted while it is still very dry......
> 
> Still need to add one more cross tube to the mid section of the opening.....and several angle clips to secure the panel so it follows the  contour of the pinch weld extenders.
> 
> Just a note to the curious ....The vise grips are clamped to a pair of 1/4" bolts that thread into the lower plate..
> 
> These were added to allow the panel to sit on a location that was "Repeatable" and would hold the panel secure during the tracing of the inside of the cab against the wood panel and to allow the panel to slip in for mounting and not have to fight with clamps and other BS to irritate me...
> 
> 
> After the panel was cut it took minimal sanding with the belt sander to "Tweak" things to fit well.
> 
> A little sanding at the roof crown was really all that was needed.....Basically only the RH side from center over to the edge had maybe 1/8" of an error......
> 
> Not going to cut the holes for the windows at this time....We can get that later ..I am thinking that after the cabin is on it's mount and located.....Then we can get a spot on location using the rear slider window access to mark the center of the front cabin rear window......THEN IT WILL END UP RIGHT......
> 
> The top corners of the roof will take some finesse to achieve a good weather tight seal.
> Last night it became really clear that this area was going to need to be a little fabrication to cover the corner paired with the roof cap piece that runs across the entire crown.
> 
> Just a bit of a Richard.....not bad.....just take a bit of time to get it right....
> Then the side pieces to cover the edges of the pinch weld extenders and onto the wood panel.......
> 
> If you don't see me pop in for a day or two.....POWER OUT.....May not happen.....BUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT....


Paint that plywood with penetrating epoxy, that way it wont delaminate and fall apart


----------



## Snowy Rivers

I will see about that.....Sound like a plan


----------



## Snowy Rivers

The fire weather is about over.....We did not get a power shut off as was possible per the power company...

Got some work done on the S-Wagon cabin today....

Pretty well have the cross tubes all welded in now.....
Got some different paint and painted the hell out of the bulkhead sheet......

Weather is not going to get real nasty for a while....Gotta get this bad boy sealed up....


----------



## m1west

We got the PG&E warnings here as well.Didnt lose power either. Is the plywood just to hold everything together while mounting or is the 2 cabins going to be separate?


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Yeah....You folks have PG&E  We have PGE (Portland General Electric)

They are following the fiasco of the mess down your way a while ago....They do not want to get sued.....
So they are just being safe.....
Pretty much getting things back on where it was shut off......
We were not in a designated PSPS area...But we got the notices and an email that we MIGHT get shut off if things got worse.
Winds never got over about 20 mph in gusts and generally 10-15 mph was about it......A few fires popped up even after the power was cut....so go figure....
Our area is all strung with "Tree wire" insulated where it is in forested places....It helps when limbs drop on it...Sort of

The cabins will be separate .....We can lift them as separate units and handle things with ease...
Today I ripped out the lower panel and cleaned stuff all up with prep solution.
Got the metal on the inner side painted and ready to add sealer and bolt back in....Gonna let the paint on the steel stuff dry until tomorrow before putting stuff back in.

Also tomorrow I want to seam seal the area where I added the extra material to the pinch weld.....Get that sealed then spray paint the area.

I do not want any bare steel left open from here on.

The plan is to get the wood panel in and sealed up as best I can and then cover with a tarp if need be until I can finish the roof cap area.....

I do not trust the weather from here on......It can change quick......NW  Oregon has two seasons.....HOT AND DRY AND COLD AND WET.....We do not have a spring, summer, fall, winter as such.....When it changes....it changes.....

The last couple days have sucked....heavy smoke and just HOT....15% HUMIDITY......Much better today....Humidity at 63% as I write this....71F too.....

Yesterday at this time was 15% and 90F

I hate heat, super dry is not a fav....neither is super humid.....Oh well...never happy


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## Snowy Rivers

UPDATE...
Came in for a bit and heard a strange sound.....It started raining....Picked up .02" of rain in about 15 minutes.....
May get more over this evening....

A great ending to a long hot summer.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Trying to get this bulkhead wrapped up....
Spent 2 hours on the damned phone looking for some UHMW Angle to cap the edges and the roof line.
2-6 weeks out.....

NOT GONNA HAPPEN
Finally found an outfit up in Portland that carries the stuff...1/4" x 2"x 2"   Sadly they only had the white stuff.....They thought they had black....1/2" only  

So we got white.

Rained last night and wet things....A godsend....Really lowered the fire danger

Finally got back up here to the ranch and wanted to get the seam sealer on the pinch weld areas......Damned new tube was old me thinks....Broke the caulking gun trying to push the stuff out.......

Sooooooooo....Had to order some....Ordered up a can of brush on....This will make things easier to get the finish I want....

But we lost this afternoon......
But the 2 pieces of UHMW angle will really make things go easy and not add a bunch of extra weight....
The UHMW DOES NOT HOLD PAINT.....But I have spayed this stuff in the past.....Paint will stick for a while.....I WANTED BLACK.....AH WELL....

What I don't want is this thing open to the weather when it finally cuts loose
The last framing is in.....I need to caulk the lower area of the front floor and get the lower panel back in.....

Tomorrow should be a good day.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

The fresh can of Seam sealer showed up this morning.....
Got the lower panel all sealed into the body and then the pinch weld area seam sealed.....

Tomorrows task will be to get all the holes drilled in the steel tubes and other mounting points where the bulkhead panel bolts in.
Then start getting the panel drilled and snugged up into place......

The final fit with sealer will be in a few days....

Still fooling with the top corners and the trim pieces....

A few pics


----------



## Snowy Rivers

GITTENERDONE.....

The weather has been wonderful the past two days....

I got the bulhead all drilled and pretty well bolted in place today....
The bow in the panel made it tough to get the bolts of the correct size in and nuts on.

I had to use some all thread to pull the panel in (Vise grips on the nut at the bottom)
I got the materials today to fabricate the top corner caps.....

Hope to get this underway tomorrow.......

The panel pulled into place really nice.....There is about a 5/16" lip at the edge of the pinch weld extender......A great place to add a nice fillet of caulk.

Thinking about using either "Vulkem" or "Through the Roof"
The final design of the corner cap looks like a winner.....Will have a 1/4" closed cell foam pad that seals the cut ends of the top rail of the body.....

Should work well and compared to the original idea will be a lot lighter......

22 bolts holding the panel to the framing......

Thinking about some sort of a "Kick panel" from the lower cross tube to the floor.....
Maybe a piece of that light weight tread that is used over big rig fuel tanks....Maybe be nice to put the feet on..??????

The plywood panel will be good enough as far as insulating.....

Somehow we need a small heater in the rear cabin.....Coolant from the engine via a booster pump can supply the hot water..

Gonna have to think this one over a bit....A couple fans to keep the windows cleared....Yesssssssssssssssssss


----------



## Snowy Rivers

I found a couple spots on the tube framing inside that I missed when I painted it.....

Decided to yank the panel back out one last time and get the paint on the tubes all spiffy..

All back together now and all the bolts in and snugged up.....

Started fabricating the top corner caps.....

LH one is done and ready to go on.....A few pics....I painted it just before dinner....so no pics with paint.....

This plan sort of supersedes the ones I had been thinking about....
This design covers the entire corner well and SHOULD allow a good seal of the area to keep out the water.....

A cast aluminum part would be sweet....Fresh out....Oh well....

Tomorrow we should be able to get the other side built and ready to go.....

Just need to get the sealer and seal the bulkhead before it rains.....
One bolt through the front of the cover and two pop rivets up on top.....

Should be just fine......


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Took the better part of the morning to scare up the needed stuff to get things going.

Finally found the "Vulkem" Caulk in a dark color.....Most places only carry grey or white..

Found some dark bronze....Close enough....

The then 1/4" pop rivets....Nobody had them...Order in...Several days out ....ARRRRRGH

Then one bright young parts person...."Hey"  Power window mounting kits.....He had a kit....Has enough of what I need to GITTERDONE.......

The two holes on top of the cab for securing the corner cap are blind......(Run inside the upper structure)

So finally got home with the goodies we need.

Got the entire bulkhead sealed....EXCEPT THE TOP CORNERS....

We have a little squirt of rain coming....Will cover the corners just in case.....

All for now....
Gotta feed the horses and then it's dinner time......


----------



## m1west

Snowy Rivers said:


> Took the better part of the morning to scare up the needed stuff to get things going.
> 
> Finally found the "Vulkem" Caulk in a dark color.....Most places only carry grey or white..
> 
> Found some dark bronze....Close enough....
> 
> The then 1/4" pop rivets....Nobody had them...Order in...Several days out ....ARRRRRGH
> 
> Then one bright young parts person...."Hey"  Power window mounting kits.....He had a kit....Has enough of what I need to GITTERDONE.......
> 
> The two holes on top of the cab for securing the corner cap are blind......(Run inside the upper structure)
> 
> So finally got home with the goodies we need.
> 
> Got the entire bulkhead sealed....EXCEPT THE TOP CORNERS....
> 
> We have a little squirt of rain coming....Will cover the corners just in case.....
> 
> All for now....
> Gotta feed the horses and then it's dinner time......


Drifting a little, if you have horses. What do you think about pasturing a gelding horse thats bombproof with a stud pony thats a 5 on a   1-10 scale. There are no mares in sight but he does get excited from time to time.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

That combination should be workable.....Ponies can be a handful....A stud pony is certainly one....

Will be interesting to see who rules the roost......

I will not have a stud in the barn....We had a Saddlebred stud in for a while....and 11 mares.....OMG
That poor stud would go nuts any time there was a mare in heat....ALL THE TIME IT SEEMED.....
We have cut way back....We only have 2 boarded animals at present...

The daughters 34 year old paint mare is still around and she has a 30+ something Arab mare (Rescue horse) she had foundered some years ago.....Laminitis flare ups are a constant issue with her.....We keep her comfortable and she is just every bodies little buddy....

We have a early 30's Fjord mare too.....

I had two Shire mares but sold them after my stroke.....Love the big horses......My ride was a 17/3 hand beauty ...Black with 4 whites....Lottssa heavy feather.....She was a joy to ride.....Like a Cadillac....

Just a geriatric barn now.....Youngest horse is 19 now.....

Even the old barn cat is about done in...

The Daughter did drill team for several years.....Ahh yessss....Memory lane...


----------



## m1west

Snowy Rivers said:


> That combination should be workable.....Ponies can be a handful....A stud pony is certainly one....
> 
> Will be interesting to see who rules the roost......
> 
> I will not have a stud in the barn....We had a Saddlebred stud in for a while....and 11 mares.....OMG
> That poor stud would go nuts any time there was a mare in heat....ALL THE TIME IT SEEMED.....
> We have cut way back....We only have 2 boarded animals at present...
> 
> The daughters 34 year old paint mare is still around and she has a 30+ something Arab mare (Rescue horse) she had foundered some years ago.....Laminitis flare ups are a constant issue with her.....We keep her comfortable and she is just every bodies little buddy....
> 
> We have a early 30's Fjord mare too.....
> 
> I had two Shire mares but sold them after my stroke.....Love the big horses......My ride was a 17/3 hand beauty ...Black with 4 whites....Lottssa heavy feather.....She was a joy to ride.....Like a Cadillac....
> 
> Just a geriatric barn now.....Youngest horse is 19 now.....
> 
> Even the old barn cat is about done in...
> 
> The Daughter did drill team for several years.....Ahh yessss....Memory lane...


My horse days were in the passed to, until the granddaughter, and now it got me interested in riding again. Trail riding at the cabin will be great. A horse is about the best ATV available. My sister has never stopped riding and just got a 2 year old Arabian mare that she is training to ride, she turned 60 yesterday.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Yes indeed....."The outside of a horse is good for the inside of a man" 

I really enjoyed riding my big mare.....We went on a trail ride one time with friends and I ended up taking my mare into the river for a swim.

That was great fun....other than getting soaked....and all my tack wet.....Missy Briar was a just a true Gentle Giant.....

My daughter used to take her to shows from time to time.....Big Azz giant always drew a crowd......

I have not been on horseback for several years......I also had a Paso Fino mare.....Goofy little critter with the funny gate.

Memories.....Good ones


----------



## vintagebike

sounds to me like Snowy is today's Forrest Gump but with a much higher IQ.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

IQ.....WASSSSSAT...../ 

Today we are in the wrapping up stages on the front bulkhead.

All sealed all the way around..All the 22 bolts are in...

Both top corner caps are finished and painted.
The final step is to lay the caps in place....tape up the area to mask off the seal goop....Then goop the parts and get them on..

1 bolt and 2 pop rivets each side.....

This should pretty well wrap up the S-Wagon passenger pod for this juncture.....The mounts will be very straight forward and easy to do....

Sitting there this afternoon looking at the front of the cat.....Went over and grabbed the S-10 BLAZER far shroud.....

The factory shroud is almost a perfect fit in the tub.

I am thinking that it is time to get the radiator I have picked and get this area wrapped up.

The radiator needs to get it's mounting brackets built and the shroud set up so it lines up with the fan.

We have the 4.3 reverse rotation water pump (Serp drive)

This pump can fit right onto our 305 mock up  engine and allow the fan to bolt up and the shroud to be set where it needs to go.

The front nose frame is the next on the hit list AND the mounting for the tilt front end.

Since the front cab is in place we can bolt the fenders back on as well as the original core support....

The tilt mounts need to weld to the core support and to the nose framing.....

I think this is a good place to move to as soon as the rear cabin wraps up......

As long as the weather holds we can move along with the radiator mounting and that stuff....

A few pics of the rear cabin and the top corner caps....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Wrapped it up a bit ago....
Things went pretty much as planned.
Dug out the "Big Daddy" Rivet tool.....This bad boy will do 5/16 steel pop rivets......Ya gotta lay into them handles....The 1/4" aluminum rivets were no sweat....

Drill the holes, taped off the area, gooped thing good  with VULKEM sealer and slapped it together.....

We will know how good it is after it rains.....


----------



## m1west

Snowy Rivers said:


> Wrapped it up a bit ago....
> Things went pretty much as planned.
> Dug out the "Big Daddy" Rivet tool.....This bad boy will do 5/16 steel pop rivets......Ya gotta lay into them handles....The 1/4" aluminum rivets were no sweat....
> 
> Drill the holes, taped off the area, gooped thing good  with VULKEM sealer and slapped it together.....
> 
> We will know how good it is after it rains.....


coming along, that is the most aggressive pop rivet gun I have ever seen


----------



## Snowy Rivers

POP RIVET GUN ON STEROIDS.....
I did a bus conversion back in the mid 1980's So many places I needed to fasten walls into the structure and there was no way to use nuts and bolts as the area was all blind..........

I had a couple smaller ones and broke them on the heavy duty rivets.....Bought that big daddy and have had it ever since

They make air operated ones too....At the time the air guns were SPENDY....I opted for the big manual one....

The rivets I used on the roof corner caps were from a "Window regulator" install kit....1/4" heavy wall aluminum.
Nobody had a box of rivets.....At least not any 1/4" ones.....The parts guy had an idea and grabbed this kit and tossed at me...

Perfect....Had about a dozen assorted lengths, some bolts and nuts and SWEEEEEEEEEEET...About $8 ....

I needed 4 rivets to get the top caps handled....

Looking at the rear end of the cat to get an idea of where the mounts are going to go. 
I need to add on an extension to the frame to pick up the rear most mounts on the S-Wagon....

A couple pieces of 4" channel angled up and to the rear and a piece of 4" box tube across the channels.....I want to level the cat up really well so we get a perfect setup on things.....The front mounts I just built off the cat tube and called it good....

Definitely going to have to rework the rear most exhaust pipes a bit....The current incarnation are  tad short....
The pipes are not welded to the 2-1/2" main pipes at present.....Just need to lengthen the 4" tubes......

That can wait until the rear cabin and mounts are sorted out......

I was planning on doing overhead stacks to get the noise up and out away from the passenger area....I may still do that
We shall see......I really don't want all the exhaust below the cabs.....

Maybe some huge azz chrome stacks.......Too much bling


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Weather has gotten a bit nicer for a dew days.
Started cleaning out the S-Wagon of all the plastic trim, seat belts and other parts....Going to store this stuff for the winter....

With the rear gate/hatch opened up I really got to noticing the poor condition of the rear end rubber seals.

These are easy to change and now is a great time to get things all done before the weather goes sour....

Started snooping the usual haunts online and came up with ZERO....ZIP...NADA......After an exhaustive search I find that these two rubber seals are peculiar to the GEN 1 S10 Blazer/S15/Bravada .....The aftermarket has not picked these up.....

Found the original GM part ###### and searched the NOS parts outfits.....NOPE...

Ebay yielded  a single hit....NOS still in the factory box   $575.00  I DON'T THINK SO.......

Checked the stock at the local  PICKNPULL.....They had a couple 1993 S Blazers.....We are only 10 miles away...
Grab tools and off we go on a damned fool crusade....AGAIN.....

Actually it was a very fruitful day.....NOT WITHOUT ISSUES....BUT REWARDING.

First rig is a four door and the hatch is stuck down.....Lift cylinders rusted....manage to get the thing open enough to pop the retainers off the cylinders and then prop the hatch up using a dash panel from some clunk close by.

Luckily the gate was not locked.....

BINGO.....Both seals are in very good shape..

I did not pack a lot of tools ....so things did get interesting....Our rear gate has phillips screws holding the trim panel on...
Sure enough the rig at the yard has torx head screws.....~!@#$  managed to pop the panel off the screws with brute force....

Get the seals all off......Great shape.


Sitting there looking at the prizes we have found and up  the line a ways farther is another rig...SAME YEAR
This one not only has the seals that are pristine.....BUT IT HAS THE SWINGOUT SPARE TIRE CARRIER TOO.....

We scarfed up the seals ....I am drooling all over the tire carrier.....BUT DO NOT HAVE THE NEEDED TOOLS WITH US.

Our wagon had been equipped with a tire carrier....The bolts are in the body, but not the tail gate.

Our gate has been replaced (No bolt holes and inner brackets in the gate) Also the rear hatch window was replaced too....Ours had been a heated one....Replaced with a non heated.

A hinky story here that we will never know WHY......

So we head up to the office to pay for the rubber goods and then plan to run home to get more tools and come back to grab the tire carrier......The carrier can be easily modified to carry two of the cat tires/wheels


Get to the check out and am a bit curious as to what sort of $$$$ for the rubber goods.....

WOW.....For both sets of rear seals...$11.86    (Two main seals and two lower glass seals on the top of the gate)


While we are at the counter I asked the checkout clerk what that tire carrier would cost.....$21 was the reply.....OMG I am pumped now....

A quick trip to the ranch and back to the yard.....

Getting the tire carrier off was not all that bad.....Would have been a walk in the park if I had my entire tool box.

I had guessed poorly and forgot a couple needed tools....But we improvised and borrowed a wrench from a guy close by....

Sadly the mount in the tailgate for the latch bracket is spot welded in......We got all the hardware for the carrier.
Going to need the tail gate.....

Going to try and get back Weds and get the tail gate.....Gate is excellent shape....Judging by the paint and lack of dirt....I think it has been replaced not that long ago.....
The gate at the yard is far nicer than the one on our Wagon........Ours has a really nasty CHEVY full width emblem that has been rattle canned flat black.....

The yard part is plain with no badges...

So what was going to be a simple quicky grab some rubber and run turned into an afternoon adventure.......

I am not in any hurry on the tire carrier.....Not even...........But Just could not say no .......

Having a couple spare tire/wheels on board is a plus.....

And so it goes.......


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Taking a break from the cat for a couple days to get some stuff done around here before the weather turns nasty...

The Suburban needed a heater blower motor and a resistor replaced.
The Avalanche has a couple things that need to get fixed so it will pass the smog test...
The S-Wagon cabin is weather tight now I HOPE  so I can tend to other responsibilities .....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Burb all fixed....Got pressure washed today and I think she is ready for prime time.....

That old MULE is our go getum rig...

We haul hazelnut shells with the beast... (Drag a car trailer with a big dumpster on it)   Grind the shells up and burn them in the pellet stoves....
So NO BURB...NO SHELLS... NO HEAT IN THE SHACK....Bad JU JU.

We should be good now...Heater all works fine now...

AVY needs the canister vent valve solenoid replaced and the throttle valve is popping PENDING codes.....I have the parts.

Daughter borrowed the rig a couple weeks ago....Their VW Jetta TDI took a puke.....So....when I get the Avy back...will fix it.

Did some measuring for the rear mount for the S-Wagon cabin to mount on the rear of the cat.

Really easy.....Just need to get these other fires put out....Well at least one is done.....

Still a few parts that need to come out of the S-10 Front cab section

The bucket seat inside forward mounts are spot welded to the floor...

This little project may be tomorrows task.....
Still a few other pieces that may be usable off the old front end body section......

The rear cabin mount will consist of a 1/8" x 4" x 4" tube and a couple pieces of 4" channel

The channel will weld to the rear frame extension where the OC-12 bolts in.....Can't do too much until we can get the body set up on the cat.....

Gonna see just what shakes out.....May be able to grab some timbers and set the body up on there soon....

I am getting real itchy ...wanting to see that bad boy sitting up on the cat......

All for now.....


----------



## chowderman

wow.  that's a lot more exciting that me , , , waiting for my cake pan so I can soak the pitch/tar/gum/gook off my table saw blades.
got some serious ripping on the slate - sticky blade do not a easy rip make....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

That sounds like a mess.

Have you tried Brakleen on the blades......

That stuff will cut through most anything....

As far as exciting goes..?????/  I had not planned on being where we are at this time.....Having to fall back 30 and punt on the cab issues (S10 BLAZER TOO HEAVY) added a lot of work I had not planned on....

But....On the bright side, it has made handling the cab/s much easier and safer than it would have been otherwise....

Bottom line...We have a lovely rear cabin for the cat now .....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Grabbed some time yesterday and got a bit of work done on the cat (Little bit)
Removed the large rear exhaust pipes to get them out of the way so the rear cabin can be sat up on the chassis.  (With this now becoming "The family model"  the rear most exhaust is going to get a slight modification.

The large 4" tubes (Last 3 feet) are not going to stay....The pipes just ahead of the 4" will get shortened about a foot and a new 2-1/2" section will get added that angles the pipes out the rear corners of the back cabin.....
Pics show the sections of the exhaust.....  The 2-1/2" go inside the 4" and have adapter rings....THE RINGS were not welded in yet....Because of stuff like what we are doing now   A MAYBE THIS MIGHT NEED TO CHANGE........

Getting the plan hatched as to how the mounts are going to  set in and anchor to the 2100 chassis....

We have quite a bit of latitude on this one....Pretty much just fab shop 101......

Getting some serious timbers scared up and stuff ready to block the cabin up so it can sit securely and be nudged around a bit to get things all in line with the front cab...

I was going to do a lift yesterday, but somebody in the barn had not advised me that the Skid steer was nearly out of fuel....
With evening chores just ahead I decided to go grab fuel and get the Scat fueled up .....Sunday will be fine to lift the cabin.....

Another issue that MUST be considered is the location for the air tanks...(Air over oil for the steering) We have 3 nice air tanks that have to go someplace ....Under the cabs is perfect....Quite a bit of space in the tub and just below the cabs....But it all has to fit and be accessible to plumb things..

I have 3 air tanks off of a semi truck that will do nicely........

The fuel tanks get into the act as well....The tanks are going to mount in the rear wheelhouse area....one on each side......There is also a cab mount just inside of the front end of this area.....So that package needs to be eyeballed well to be sure the mount does not get in the way of the where the tanks go......

So for now...I want to get the rear cabin sitting  CLOSE to it's final location and stable to it can remain for a period of time.

Once the elevation is figured out......the front and rear mounts and go in.....The center mount on the rear cabin is currently being used as the rear lifting rig location....Going to need to be able to get the lift rig out, build the center mounts then be able to get the lift rig back in to remove the cabin.......

The rear most cabin mounts go just a little bit aft of the current rear most ends of the large exhaust tubes.....Hence the need to move things

The rear mounts look like they can be a simple box tube sitting on a pair of channels that weld to the lowest portion of the frame.....Just outside of the area the OC12 bolts in......Channels about 18" long....cut on an angle to allow the box tube to sit parallel to the body and the mounts to snuggle up in that area such that human hands can get tools on them....Plenty of room back there.....So these mounts should be a piece of cake.

Still not 100% on actual configuration....May  add a deep channel stand off similar to the rear mounts on the front cabin (Piccy has good view)

This design looks good....But took way too much time to machine out the access hole and get it together...
I want the rear mounts to be a simple fabrication......

Possibly a piece of the same size tube but with a pair of angles welded on as the legs to support the mount.

We shall see.......   The front cab mounts (A pillar) are an integral part of several components.....The rear ones were just GET THE HEIGHT RIGHT AND CALL IT GOOD....Also...Lets use whats laying around mentality probably got into the mix as well


The front cab A PILLAR mount is also tied into part of the air bag brackets .....Just all came together.

Everything always seems to be involved with something else.....I am trying hard to keep from making more issues down the road on the mounting of the rear cabin.


Later troops


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Hit the depot and grabbed a couple 4 x 6 fir beams to cut up for blocking the rear cabin up off the cat frame.
Headed over to Harbor freight and got a slinky hose to connect my air hoist so I did not have to  crawl up on the ladder to connect and disconnect the main air hose while moving the body onto the cat.

I think we are pretty close to ready to get that bad boy onto the kitty cat.....

 Gonna take a little fiddling about to get it spot on....The 4 x 6 timbers will give us plenty of room and be real steady while things are being lined up.

The little 1/2 ton air hoist is very nice for very slow motion....either up or down.....

The skid steer hydraulics are OK for some stuff, but for delicate work they are like using a sledgehammer to install cabinet trim.

Just not enough fine control.

I have used the air hoist to remove and replace many engines.....Just a sweet tool...

Just use the bucket on the Scat Trak as an anchor.....Better than a Tree....It moves around


----------



## Snowy Rivers

OK
The CATTIN DAY STARTED EARLY TODAY

Got the skid steer all ready and we hooked up the lift rig and gave it a go......

Got the S-Wagon sitting up on the cat....

Had breakfast....then spent the rest of the day wiggling and tweaking the cabin into position.

All the locations are within a 1/16" where possible.....As good as it is gonna get.

Now the next thing is to get the mounts built and installed.....


Some pics

Gonna hit the rack....more info in the morning....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

AHHHHH....

A good night sleep does wonders.

The mounts for the rear cabin are pretty straight forward....EXCEPT FOR THE REAR MOST MOUNT.
There are some good things and some bad things back there......

The overhang off the back of the cat frame is enough that getting a bracket arrangement is going to be an interesting layout.

What we end up with MUST be removable to allow the cabin to come off without having to raise the cabin more than about 6-8 inches above the nominal position it is in  when it is mounted.

The elevation of the rear mount pads in the body are quite a bit higher than the front mount.......I spent a couple hours late yesterday sizing up a plan......Several ideas came up.....but keeping things simple and light weight were the main focus.

Looking like the easy way is going to be to add a pair of  square tube extensions off the rear of the cat chassis and then bolt on a pair of risers for the mount cushions to sit in......

The middle pair of mounts are much more straight forward.....Two simple stands that bolt to the upper flange of the cat tub and carry the rubber mounts........

The very front mount as I mentioned before will be very similar to the mountings on the front cab.........

A 4" X 4" X 1/8" box tube across the upper edge of the cat chassis (62" long) with an angle mounting flange and then risers to place the rubber mounts where they need to be......

Piccy shows the rear beam and riser under the front cab.....

There are no two mount locations on the cabs of either the S10 BLAZER or the PICKUP that are at the same elevation....So everything has its own set of interesting  complications to mount it.......

The factory frame shape of the S-Wagon being full of humps and valley's to fit the axles and such placed all the body mounts at far different elevations from one another.....So the "IMAGINEERING" gets very interesting.


My original plan of a few weeks ago was to mount the rear cabin up to a foot higher than the front.....Well.....In reality this would make the mountings a bigger challenge....and the thing would look like a big spider on stilts......
Doable ????? YES....But would require a lot more steel to build the structure strong enough to hold things.....

So at present things are looking like we will keep the body lines matching the way they did from the factory.......
This thing is starting to get up into TUCKER ELEVATION....   And we are not done yet....

As mentioned....The front mount is a piece of cake.....Front there on back things get interesting....

Another issue that has surfaced is all the blocking required to get things set up to mount it..

During any mount/dismount of the rear cabin there will need to be the need to have the ability to HOLD the body stable while the rear most mounts are fastened in.

The Skid steer does not have a positive lock on the bucket curl/tilt action and will start to bleed off when the engine is off.

This make it necessary to be able to sit the body on the cat and be able to remove the lift rig and have things secure....

Some positive Locating pins are on the negotiating table....(Urethane parts that are used on big rig hoods to align them come to mind)

After the S-WAGON cabin is mounted this time I am thinking that at the least the front  area (Not sure exactly where yet) will get a pair of alignment pins to locate the cabin exactly.......This will make future on/off cycles far easier without the need  to fool around with straps and tape measures to get things located.....

Positive location devices at the front on both sides will  make things a walk in the park........This operation will still require two people to do.....The operator in the Skid steer simply can't see what is needed to safely sit the body on.

But being able to line up a couple of tapered urethane bumpers will do it...

More when I have something....


OH YEAH.....With the elevation and weight on the rear cabin....We were not able to use the air hoist.....It eats up too much height

We would need to use the extension in the bucket and this places the leverage too far out for the weight...

So we used the chain off the front edge of the bucket ......IT WORKS.....Just not as easy to get fine adjustments up and down...


----------



## m1west

Snowy Rivers said:


> AHHHHH....
> 
> A good night sleep does wonders.
> 
> The mounts for the rear cabin are pretty straight forward....EXCEPT FOR THE REAR MOST MOUNT.
> There are some good things and some bad things back there......
> 
> The overhang off the back of the cat frame is enough that getting a bracket arrangement is going to be an interesting layout.
> 
> What we end up with MUST be removable to allow the cabin to come off without having to raise the cabin more than about 6-8 inches above the nominal position it is in  when it is mounted.
> 
> The elevation of the rear mount pads in the body are quite a bit higher than the front mount.......I spent a couple hours late yesterday sizing up a plan......Several ideas came up.....but keeping things simple and light weight were the main focus.
> 
> Looking like the easy way is going to be to add a pair of  square tube extensions off the rear of the cat chassis and then bolt on a pair of risers for the mount cushions to sit in......
> 
> The middle pair of mounts are much more straight forward.....Two simple stands that bolt to the upper flange of the cat tub and carry the rubber mounts........
> 
> The very front mount as I mentioned before will be very similar to the mountings on the front cab.........
> 
> A 4" X 4" X 1/8" box tube across the upper edge of the cat chassis (62" long) with an angle mounting flange and then risers to place the rubber mounts where they need to be......
> 
> Piccy shows the rear beam and riser under the front cab.....
> 
> There are no two mount locations on the cabs of either the S10 BLAZER or the PICKUP that are at the same elevation....So everything has its own set of interesting  complications to mount it.......
> 
> The factory frame shape of the S-Wagon being full of humps and valley's to fit the axles and such placed all the body mounts at far different elevations from one another.....So the "IMAGINEERING" gets very interesting.
> 
> 
> My original plan of a few weeks ago was to mount the rear cabin up to a foot higher than the front.....Well.....In reality this would make the mountings a bigger challenge....and the thing would look like a big spider on stilts......
> Doable ????? YES....But would require a lot more steel to build the structure strong enough to hold things.....
> 
> So at present things are looking like we will keep the body lines matching the way they did from the factory.......
> This thing is starting to get up into TUCKER ELEVATION....   And we are not done yet....
> 
> As mentioned....The front mount is a piece of cake.....Front there on back things get interesting....
> 
> Another issue that has surfaced is all the blocking required to get things set up to mount it..
> 
> During any mount/dismount of the rear cabin there will need to be the need to have the ability to HOLD the body stable while the rear most mounts are fastened in.
> 
> The Skid steer does not have a positive lock on the bucket curl/tilt action and will start to bleed off when the engine is off.
> 
> This make it necessary to be able to sit the body on the cat and be able to remove the lift rig and have things secure....
> 
> Some positive Locating pins are on the negotiating table....(Urethane parts that are used on big rig hoods to align them come to mind)
> 
> After the S-WAGON cabin is mounted this time I am thinking that at the least the front  area (Not sure exactly where yet) will get a pair of alignment pins to locate the cabin exactly.......This will make future on/off cycles far easier without the need  to fool around with straps and tape measures to get things located.....
> 
> Positive location devices at the front on both sides will  make things a walk in the park........This operation will still require two people to do.....The operator in the Skid steer simply can't see what is needed to safely sit the body on.
> 
> But being able to line up a couple of tapered urethane bumpers will do it...
> 
> More when I have something....
> 
> 
> OH YEAH.....With the elevation and weight on the rear cabin....We were not able to use the air hoist.....It eats up too much height
> 
> We would need to use the extension in the bucket and this places the leverage too far out for the weight...
> 
> So we used the chain off the front edge of the bucket ......IT WORKS.....Just not as easy to get fine adjustments up and down...


And Snowy finally gets mounted. Engine sounds in the near future


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Let us hope so
Still doodling on the rear body mounts

This winter will likely see action on getting the 406 Vortec bolted together


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Spent time sitting under the back of the Kitty looking and thinking about how to pic up a good mounting for the rear two sets of mounts....

I decided on building a tubular "Bridge" assembly that will fasten to the cat tub just forward of the center mounts (Near center of wheel house) and be nearly level with the lower edge of the forward part of the cabin.......Then extend rearward to a point just aft of the rear most mount.....

I can weld a box tube onto the exterior of the lower portion of the cat frame where the OC-12 mounts.....This will provide a good span across the area and have a minimal amount of tube cantilevered beyond the back of the cat to support the rear body mounts....

Each mount will have a separate stool that the rubber mount goes through and it will bolt to the bridge assembly.....

Likely weld the bridge assemblies to the cat frame and call it a day.......

This design will allow the rear most mounts to support the cabin while the middle mounts are removed and the lifting rig is installed for removal/mounting..

Looks like 3/16" X 2" X 4" tube 42" long.....The tube bridges will sit on a slight angle as the factory mounts are just that....slight skew to the locations......


The rear of these tubes can be anchor points for the veranda......

Without a Veranda ....Getting the tailgate / hatch open will be a tough call...

The veranda can be light tube with expanded metal welded to it......A safety railing will be needed with the ability to open a portion in the center to allow loading items in the cat......Sounds good.....

With the cabin sitting spot on....Best shot is to build the bridge assemblies on site to fit....

Get some good heavy tack welds to hold.....then finish it after we yank the cabin back off for further work....

Gonna be the weekend before I can get the materials and start building these items.....

WEATHER GONNA GET WET THE NEXT COUPLE DAYS......Then more good weather for a while.....The good weather is going to go away soon.....I would like to get the mounts wrapped up before we get shut down for the long cold dark....

This design is about as simple, yet rugged as I can see possible without going to great lengths and added weight.....This will also allow easy removal of the cabin.....All the mounts will be easily accessible with tools and the rear ones are A SIT IN THE CHAIR AND JUST DO IT THING....

This set up will allow bolting the lift rig back on and not having to get out bunched of blocks to hold up the rear cabin while preparing the lift rig..

The stools that actually fit the mounts will fasten to the bridge assemblies and come off easily at the last moment once the lift is holding the cabin.....

I really do not like all the bunches of timbers and tree parts that I have stacked up holding this thing....

It is solid enough.....But Once the job it done all the blocking will likely get used elsewhere....And be unavailable if needed.....

So if we don't need all that material...."More Gooder"

So that's it for today.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Going to grab the materials tomorrow to build the rear cab mounts....

Decided to stick with the same materials we used up front...1/8" x 3-1/2" x 3-1/2" box tube....This will keep symmetry in things....   

The local yard wanted waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more $$$$ than I wanted to cough up....

Shop across town has the same material for about 1/3 less.....Well worth the drive ..


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## Snowy Rivers

Got a good shot of rain last night....Checked out the S-Wagon for leaks around the new front bulkhead....

With the carpet out and the floor bare, the interior trim removed its easy to see anything wet..

RH side had two puddles on the floor.....COULD NOT SEE WHERE THEY CAME FROM....

TURNED THE HOSE ON IT GOOD....Then the drips showed up.....

After looking things over it looks like a cracked seam at the upper pinch weld area right at the B Pillar......

The original Rubber gutter fit all along hat area and now that the entire front is gone....so is the gutter.

The seam has a good sized crack that would have been covered by the rubber gutter ......

This all seems like an existing issue that is 30 plus years in the making.....

The carpets were wet on that side too when I took things apart..

Some dry weather coming up.

Will use soap solution and an air nozzle inside to check this out......

Should be an easy fix.....Since the LH side is fine.....Good bet the carck is the culprit


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## Snowy Rivers

Weather is improving....I got pretty much all of the tube steel to construct the supports for the rear cabin.

Over the next couple days we should be able to get some action going  on this stuff......

Still some imagineering to get the final  design fully on paper and ready to start putting it together......

Been a long day...(Started at 3 am....DON'T ASK WHY)

This cat is heading for the rack.......


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## Snowy Rivers

Got after the rear cabin mounting bridges.

Was interrupted many times .....but did get some parts cut and moving ahead.

The bridge assembly is going to be a bolt in assembly just to make sure we do not  screw up and make life tough later....

Looking like the air tanks can mount across the two bridges.....We shall see how this works out......

The rear most upright bolts onto the lower portion of the frame just behind the OC12....

Going to have to jack the body up a tad and remove the timbers and shorten them up to allow the lower brackets and uprights to fit.....

Once the bridges are in....then we can fab up the "STOOLS" that the actual rubber mounts fit into....


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## Snowy Rivers

Weather is holding for now......Lovely working weather..
Getting materials cut, machined and welding started on the rear mounts.

The plan is actually starting to look better as it comes together.
Ya never quite know just how a lot of this stuff will end up when ya get a good look at whats needed Vs the materials that are available......

I had a chunk of heavy wall tube.....This makes nice pockets for the rubber mounts..........Needed some supports to hold the pockets that will allow the rubber parts to be assembled......Found a couple pieces of Formed angle at the steel shop ....Somebody goofed on a blue print and the parts were made backwards......So these long pieces were in the low cost stock rack...

Nice rounded corner and a perfect  size to support the pocket.

The rear mount on the S-Wagon is offset outboard from the middle mount....Decided to keep the bridge assembly straight and just add an extension pad to allow things to be supported where needed..

 A nice piece of the formed angle can weld onto the tube and support the outside of the pad..

Had to drill a 1-1/8" hole in the pad to get the mount bolt in and out......

Trying to keep the height of the stools as low as possible and still allow things to fit well.....Also this plan has allowed the top of the two cabs to stay flush instead of the step up I had considered......

Also this design will make adding steps to get up off the tracks and into the cabs much easier to build.......

The one mount I had thought would be the easiest.....THE FRONT ONE ON THE REAR CABIN....Has turned out looking like it will be the toughest one.

The B PILLAR mount has the center bolt on the mount directly over the top rail of the 2100 tub.....

While not a deal breaker.....this little item has changed how that mount will be built......In order to be able to get the bolt in/out the mounting will need to be cantilevered off the side of the cross tube to get elevation needed and still have access to the lower mount rubber, the heavy retainer washer and the bolt...

The other option is to weld the pocket for the mount directly to the cross tube.....This will require cutting an access hole in the tube on it's upper face to allow getting the lower rubber part of the mount installed and getting the bolt in/out

Damned Chinese puzzle on this one....

The location side to side is the same as the rear mount on the front cab.....But that mount required a much taller stool....So their was not an issue with the bolt hitting the top of the cat tub.....

I had originally planned to make the stools for the rear mount bridges removable to allow the cabin to be removed without needing a lot of lift to get over the rear mounts......But now it looks like the entire bridge assemblies can be unbolted and removed easy enough......

IT IS POSSIBLE....That there will be enough lift available to get up and over the rear mounts without removing them.....But we will have the option of removing the bridges if need be......

Slow process.....But building this stuff on location will assure a perfect fit......

I am finding that things are not always the same side to side on the S-Wagon.....Close....but sometimes little discrepancies show up......That is why ya find shims from time to time under the mounts...AND WE DID DURING THE TEAR DOWN.....

In the one piccy the lower rubber and the heavy washer are sitting between the angle supports.....Just to make sure there was enough room to get things in before welding stuff......

Some pics


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## Snowy Rivers

Got some welding done on the Bridge assemblies.....A slow process of getting some of the blocking moved to allow access to the structures...

Tedious place to work while trying hard to maintain the location of the body to cat frame in alignment......

Sorted out the issues with the front mounts on the S-Wagon .....The plan finally came together yesterday.......

A similar type of cantilevered mount not much different than what is up on the front of the forward cab....
The biggest issue is the fact that the mount bolt center line is directly over the top of the Cat tub top side rail......But the elevation gives enough room to get the bolt into the mount AND GET A WRENCH ON IT....

Piccy is the RH side front cab mount.

The front mount on the rear cabin is at a slightly higher elevation.......But the idea allows gaining access to get the rubber biscuits in place and the bolt in.....

I am not a particular fan of the cantilevered mount......But a brace bolted to the upper part of the cat frame will stop any twisting moment......
Piccy shows the "Anti rotation arm" as it is on the front cab mount .....

All sorts of fun things.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

As we all know....Our snow cat endeavors are a hobby.....at least to most...Some are a business.
Well mine is just a hobby...
So at times my hobby has to take a back seat to reality and the daily chores of life....

Friday evening about 7pm I get an email from my tenant, who for the last 8 years has rented the apartment that is in the lower level of the house you see in the pictures of my cat build......

This apartment had been my parents place quite a few years ago....Now it is a nice rental.....
The email informs me that the tenant is giving us the required 30 day notice that she is leaving..

Her mom showed up back in June with no place to stay after the loss of her husband.....

The apartment is a single BR and this was not working...

Anyway.....long story short...We needed to get the place a bit spiffy outside to show to prospective tenants....

The current gal has been in failing health due to a car wreck and other issues and can't do much physical labor..

So we have been cleaning up potted plants and other  crap, washing windows and generally policing up the area.
Parts and junk from somebodies snowcat had to be picked up as well.  
So the last few days of lovely weather have been consumed doing disgustingly boring domestics..

With an ad running on Craig's list and my phone getting blown up near constantly and people wanting to see the place ....my cat time has been pretty skimpy.....

After about a dozen calls and 6 showings since Saturday we got a taker last night.....
Most of those who inquired wanted FIOS internet to work from home.....Not happening here.....At least not in the near future...

Ahhhh..yessss....It was nice to shut down the ad copy and get a good nights sleep and not be needing to drop what I want to be doing to meet with folks.......

So.....Back to Cat stuff

Did manage to get a little bit of work done on the Cat.
Cutting, fitting and getting the rear most support ready to weld to the cat chassis.

I decided to add an angle to the rear frame behind the OC12.....The upright sits in the angle and welds in 100% 
This will put the loading in nearly direct shear...DOWN....Should carry the load well.....

Decided to add 2 plates on top of the upright to allow bolting the Bridge assembly into place easily.....

Still thinking about adding a diagonal brace to the upright to handle any lateral forces.....Given the height of the body off the chassis....seems like a good plan..

Hopefully with the domestic things in check for now.....I can get a bit more work done......


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## Snowy Rivers

To day was a great day.....Laid back and got work done....
The RH Bridge beam and rear support are nearing completion.

The center mount stool still needs to be fabricated and set up.....
I need to remove the lifting rig so the center  mounts can be done.....But this can wait a bit......

Tomorrow we head over the the LH side and start building there......

Some pics of things..

I am still thinking about adding a diagonal brace to the rear upright to transfer any lateral stress back into the main frame.....


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## Snowy Rivers

I got off on a bit of a Skew here and was thinking about the engine for the cat.....MAINLY the cylinder heads...

I had salvaged the heads off a 1998 L31 VORTEC 5.7 to use on the 406......There are a few issues that needed to be addressed....

(1) The valve lift before interference with the spring retainers is not very much when looking at a performance cam.
This needs to be rectified in one of a couple ways.........The cam I want to use has Int .444" - Exh .466" lift and depending on the particular heads that cam may be pushing things too far in stock trim.

(2) The Vortec heads do not have an exhaust crossover passage to warm the intake (These were fuel injected and the manifold only sees air......Using a carbureted setup in cold damp weather can see carb icing ...This can be a problem

An intake air heater can be built to keep the incoming air above the icing zone.......But this is just another little bit of work that needs to be dealt with........

(3) Drilling the head decks for the steam holes required on the 400 sbc ......While not a big issue, it is a needed item.

So the idea of using a set of heads from the pre vortec sbc engines that also had the 4 center bolt valve covers and all the proper accessory bolt hole up front came to mind.......

This engine is not going to be a 7000 RPM screamer.....Likely not see more than 4500 RPM .......So max performance and all the trick stuff is not really needed...

Sooooo

Off to investigate what is available and what will and won't work.

87-95 SBC truck heads are a direct bolt on to the 400 sbc but must have steam holes drilled ( Only the 882 heads for the 400 have the holes) 

The 87-95 heads  (191 heads) are small valves with Swirl port intakes (Swirlies) and would be OK accept the chambers are 76cc.....Will give us about 8:1 compression.....For this build I want 9:1 -  9.5:1 compression 

I owned a 1979 GMC with the 400 sbc...Good reliable truck....But when asked to really give it's all...It was a turd...

Low compression ratio just does not give much to work with.......

The 191 Heads from the early 90's trucks have limited valve lift  and would require machining....

All the down sides to these heads just left a bad taste in my mouth.....A deal breaker for sure.

There are other heads that would do the job....But finding a set......TOUGH.
New performance stuff is just out of reach of the budget and really not needed.

So after thrashing about I headed out to visit the auto machine shop I use and see what he had....I tossed the Vortec heads in the van and off to the shop....

Basically .....Back to the VORTEC heads we go....

They are 64cc chambers which will give us 9:1 Comp ratio ...Possibly a bit more  maybe up to 9.5:1
A good number when dealing with unleaded fuel.......

The day ended with leaving the heads at the shop .... valve grind, Cut the valve guide bosses to allow more lift, cut the spring pockets for earlier springs and drill the steam holes.......

These bad boys will work well with the chosen cam and the 406 should make enough power to BREAK STUFF  

The only caveat is the need for the hot air box....

With this mess finally put to bed....Back to fabricating the body mounts for the rear cabin

I cut the materials for the rear LH bridge assembly yesterday.....Then got sidetracked with the grand kids rig 
So today maybe things can resume......


----------



## m1west

Snowy Rivers said:


> I got off on a bit of a Skew here and was thinking about the engine for the cat.....MAINLY the cylinder heads...
> 
> I had salvaged the heads off a 1998 L31 VORTEC 5.7 to use on the 406......There are a few issues that needed to be addressed....
> 
> (1) The valve lift before interference with the spring retainers is not very much when looking at a performance cam.
> This needs to be rectified in one of a couple ways.........The cam I want to use has Int .444" - Exh .466" lift and depending on the particular heads that cam may be pushing things too far in stock trim.
> 
> (2) The Vortec heads do not have an exhaust crossover passage to warm the intake (These were fuel injected and the manifold only sees air......Using a carbureted setup in cold damp weather can see carb icing ...This can be a problem
> 
> An intake air heater can be built to keep the incoming air above the icing zone.......But this is just another little bit of work that needs to be dealt with........
> 
> (3) Drilling the head decks for the steam holes required on the 400 sbc ......While not a big issue, it is a needed item.
> 
> So the idea of using a set of heads from the pre vortec sbc engines that also had the 4 center bolt valve covers and all the proper accessory bolt hole up front came to mind.......
> 
> This engine is not going to be a 7000 RPM screamer.....Likely not see more than 4500 RPM .......So max performance and all the trick stuff is not really needed...
> 
> Sooooo
> 
> Off to investigate what is available and what will and won't work.
> 
> 87-95 SBC truck heads are a direct bolt on to the 400 sbc but must have steam holes drilled ( Only the 882 heads for the 400 have the holes)
> 
> The 87-95 heads  (191 heads) are small valves with Swirl port intakes (Swirlies) and would be OK accept the chambers are 76cc.....Will give us about 8:1 compression.....For this build I want 9:1 -  9.5:1 compression
> 
> I owned a 1979 GMC with the 400 sbc...Good reliable truck....But when asked to really give it's all...It was a turd...
> 
> Low compression ratio just does not give much to work with.......
> 
> The 191 Heads from the early 90's trucks have limited valve lift  and would require machining....
> 
> All the down sides to these heads just left a bad taste in my mouth.....A deal breaker for sure.
> 
> There are other heads that would do the job....But finding a set......TOUGH.
> New performance stuff is just out of reach of the budget and really not needed.
> 
> So after thrashing about I headed out to visit the auto machine shop I use and see what he had....I tossed the Vortec heads in the van and off to the shop....
> 
> Basically .....Back to the VORTEC heads we go....
> 
> They are 64cc chambers which will give us 9:1 Comp ratio ...Possibly a bit more  maybe up to 9.5:1
> A good number when dealing with unleaded fuel.......
> 
> The day ended with leaving the heads at the shop .... valve grind, Cut the valve guide bosses to allow more lift, cut the spring pockets for earlier springs and drill the steam holes.......
> 
> These bad boys will work well with the chosen cam and the 406 should make enough power to BREAK STUFF
> 
> The only caveat is the need for the hot air box....
> 
> With this mess finally put to bed....Back to fabricating the body mounts for the rear cabin
> 
> I cut the materials for the rear LH bridge assembly yesterday.....Then got sidetracked with the grand kids rig
> So today maybe things can resume......


sometimes you can change the rocker ratio to decrease lift, or do a little research for some longer valves/springs. I went through that on a 5.9 Magnum build with a custom cam. Not to difficult to engineer around it, just watch the pushrod length.


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## Snowy Rivers

Copy on the valve length, push rods, springs and such.

The Vortec heads were purpose designed to do what they do and do it well....Cam lift, duration and such is very mild and things really work fine given the emissions parameters for the rigs they ran in....1996 to 2000 GM Pickup L31 5.7 engines.

Then along comes some clown that wants to change the rules for Off highway use ....Then things go out the window.

Most hot rod folks want high RPM and big power with the Vortec heads....
In my case I want modest power at up to 4500 or so RPM

The stock Rocker arms are a 1.5:1 ratio......The other option is a 1.6:1 which is going the wrong way......

The heads have a fairly tall valve guide boss and the distance between the seal and the spring retainer is pretty limited...
Some sources say max lift at .420"....Others say .480" and so it goes on the internet sources....The only way to get good data is to measure things up and see....

The major performance outfits all offer Tools to cut the guide boss, open up the spring seat area, different springs, different retainers, and on it goes.

All good stuff for the performance seeker that wants to twist his little mouse motor high wide and handsome......

I don't need stiff valve springs that can handle 7000 RPM without floating......Stock spring rates will be fine for the application.....

Getting a bit more clearance between the retainers and the seals will get us in the ball park.....The machinist and I spoke of using a bit different set of springs he had that would work better  and have a bit more room with zero worry about coil bind.

I do not want to spend $$$$$$ on screw in Rocker studs and such.....Simply do not need them for the spring pressure we are running and the low RPM 

The Vortec 5.7 used hydraulic roller cam/lifters ....The push rods are shorter because of the longer lifters....
A set of standard production length push rods for the 400 SBC will get things where we need to be.....Going to use the stock valve guided rocker arms    (These have a slot in the tip that sits over the end of the valve to keep the rocker centered)

Until I opened up that 5.7 Vortec I had never seen any of these rockers.....Guess I missed out on that staff meeting. 
IF...I had decided to go with a "Grocery getter" cam with lifts in the .400" range .....we would not be having this discussion, and I would have used the heads as is other than drilling the steam holes...

BUT OHHHH NOOOOO....I gotta have a bit of a Rumpy cam in my 406 inch Thunder Mouse........

So such is life........Plus I wanted to use the Late style serpentine belt drive system that came with the Vortec engine....
The serp drive needs heads with 3 bolt holes on the front of the RH head 

The late serp drive system has the AC compressor on top on the drivers side.....This bad boy gets modified to handle the compressed air needs for the steering......Alternators available are stout and high amp units are pretty much stock....

Using the reverse rotation water pump style from the 1990 S10 (Same pump as used on the V8 of same year) this gives us a true GEN 1 cooling system flow through the bypass port......Which needs to be drilled in the RH head    (Vortecs do not have this hole)

The 400 sbc has all the older GEN 1 cooling system passages......I just did not want  to have to fool around with the mickey mouse fixes to keep from having weird heat spikes and air locks due to the Vortec head changes in coolant flow.

With the bypass hole drilled in the deck of the RH head and using the early serp drive water pump ...All these issues do not exist........

NOW
Truth be known.....I could have avoided all these issues and just installed a complete mid 90's TBI 350 with a carb type intake (These have heat passage) ...BUT OHHHH NO ....I gots to have the big inch small block.....Big bore, long stroke and all the goody yums......

Haaaaaaaaaaa.....JUST BECAUSE.....So along with "The I want" comes a host of things to deal with........


Back to Cat Central and the rear cabin mounting.

Slowly getting the LH mounting Bridge fabricated and in place.

I discovered yesterday late in the day that both the 2100 chassis and the S10 BODY can't be trusted to be exactly straight and the same from side to side......

Getting the Bridge assembly lined up and ready to start welding stuff in place and I find an error of about 1/2" ARRRRRRRGH.
Turned out that part of it was due to what looks like a sloppy repair to the rear of the cat chassis.......I just could not figure it out....Then I walked back about 20 feet and looked down the top rail of the tub on the cat and spotted the issue.....

The last 6" of the tub rail tweaked inward and this accounted for the error in my dims on the new parts.....

The reference points I used on the S10 body are likely not good either due to production tolerances in the sheet metal....

So I went back and referenced off the lower heavier part of the cat tub where the rear diffy mounts and found these to be pretty good....Then lined up the bridge tube with the lower part of the tub.....

Now the reference points are down in the 1/8" range as far as difference go......I can live with this......

The one point on the sheet metal that seems off may be just normal production.....Or it may be from getting tweaked over the years from some damage or ???? Who knows......Anyway....The body mount is moving ahead and looks fine.....

Just a matter of "Fudging" a bit here and there to  even out and lessen the error........

I really do not think that Thiokol was all that fussy about stuff.....GITTERDONE and out the door.....Then add 50 years of GAWD knows what has happened to it.....

All this stuff is aesthetics anyway and is just to make sure the cab sections are in line and will look decent when finished....

This stuff has no effect on the drive train or operation of the cat.....
Got the beam front pedestal bolts in and the rear mount to the body is located and getting some weld on it......


I need to RE-Shuffle the blocks to allow getting the rear upright tube in and welded to the lower chassis.......

Trying hard to get all the points where the body sits on the new mountings contacting evenly.......The original mounting on the S10 had some shims between the mount points and the mounting biscuit hardware.....I can avoid this stuff simply by fabricating things in place and measuring as we go.... the factory error was 1/16" to 1/8" shims.......

I see no point in putting tweaks in things from the gitgo.......


Back at it today........


----------



## m1west

springs and retainers won't give you more clearance, longer valves or machining the valve guide will.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Correct....
The valve guide needs to be cut down some and machined for a more low profile seal.

The spring thing has more to do with the size of the wire and the pressure on the seat.....

There is a way to grind the underside of the retainers to gain a bit of extra room, but it is considered a bit sketchy and not on the list of "Good ways" to do the job

We are going to cut the guides down some and also open up the spring pocket so we can use a better set of springs.....
The springs on the Vortec are a bit sketchy....Very light single spring without a damper......

I do not need much......   .As long as we can run the .444" and .466" lift and have .060" of clearance between the retainers and the seals....Good to go....

The valves are plenty long in stock form......
Should work well.......The complete package should get this little mouse motor capable of 375 hp and  400 ft lb of torque

I think the HP is close.....Research on various builds of the 400 sbc with mild performance cams....9:1 compression and Vortec heads is in this arena......

The stock 400 heads were absolute crap as far as power......

The 400 is not a screamer for sure....But will happily handle 5000 RPM with the stock rotating assembly.

I stuck with the stock 400 Rods (5.565") and the stock 400 externally balanced crank. (3.750" stroke)....New flex plate
There are probably better ways to build a long stroke SBC ....But the factory parts are fine for the application. 

Pistons are new 1443 Silvolite +.030" 

These are a dished piston...With the vortec heads the compression ratio calculates out to about 9.3:1 Maybe a  touch more......I am not worried about all the nit pick stuff to get the numbers down 6 places past the decimal point.....

It will be a bunch better than the way Ma General made it back in 1980......

The heads alone are light years better flow than the stock 882 castings..
A bit more Comp ratio and a much better cam.

I thought about several engine options for the Cat....The Chevy Small block is just so easy to get goody yum parts for....And it is a compact package........

The original Ford FE engine is huge, weighs a butt load and is a Turd in stock trim.....

I have had Fords with the FE engine.....Can be a power house.....But the little Mouse motor is so easy to build and cheap.....


I had given thought to a GM 6.2 Diesel.....Just too wide to be a good contender....HEAVY TOO

Several other options came to mind.....Most are just not nearly as easy as the SBC to get parts and adapt to the use...
Had the cat came to me with the Ford Engine and tranny as usable parts....That may have been a different story.

No engine and the C6 tranny was full of water.....Likely junk.....

Started with a clean slate.......And decided to be slightly different and go with the big bore Mouse Motor......

Got lucky and had a fella contact me on a WANT AD I placed for a 400 SBC.
Got a good block....Not much more.
Found a good crank at "Rebuilders supply" 
The shop I use had a good set of Rods
New pistons
High capacity gated and baffled oil pan
Vortec heads
Cam choice is likely going to be an 1103 Summit 
Stock GM L31 Serpentine drive system
Small GM starter 
Exhaust manifolds from a 1995 Suburban 5.7  (Desired discharge area ) 
Carbureted intake with a 750 Quadrajet carb
Standard old school large cap HEI distributor.....

This should be a great little power plant

The TH 350 Tranny will back this power plant..

Just a good going over ....New seals, Clutches, better sprags, bushings if need be.....Fresh RV type converter 
Going to go with a manual shift kit and basically make it a SELECT SHIFT.....No auto shift at all....
The TH350 is a great little box and should handle the gears fine.......


I am looking forward to the power train build......Far more fun than beating on the iron......


----------



## m1west

I used bee hive springs on my roller cam magnum build, single spring with the same spring rate as a straight double spring, with a smaller retainer that helps with rocker clearance. The other thing I did was shim the non adjustable rocker pedestals to achieve zero lash. that way the lifters will lift the valves to full lift. No preload.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Ahhhh yes....

I have seen this done before..
The  Bee Hive springs and smaller retainer is one of the solutions on the vortec heads too..

I had thought about going Roller lifters.....The Cost over the flat tappet cam is more than I want to cough up.
The only draw back on the Flat tappet cams any more is the changes in the oils.
Most of the newer oils do not have ZDDP additive and this is tough on cams.

There are a few oils that have the ZDDP added for the "Classic cars and performance builds"

With the older GEN 1 SBC 400 I could add the after market roller lifters with the guide bar....

This engine will do fine with the  Flat tappet cam/lifters......
We are not going to run big Herky pressure springs which place far more stress on the cam lobes...

I keep thinking about going roller....Since I have not purchased Cam/lifters or push rods as yet..
Then I look at the cost...    Then ask...WHY...

The ZDDP amount was reduced some years ago when the Mfg's had to guarantee the Cat converters for 100,000 miles or ????
The ZDDP will poison the cat really quick and take it out.

The ZDDP additive is really only needed for the sliding type of actions found in a flat tappet cam.....So they went to Rollers to negate the worries of cam failures ......

When I start the assembly of the engine .....May change my mind.....WE shall see...


----------



## m1west

Thats the reason built a magnum over just rebuilding the original LA 360. Flat cam wiped the motor out in a few miles. Started as a slight pop back in the carb. by the time I got it home, it wouldn't re start and the metal was throughout the motor. And yes I was using the additive.


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## Snowy Rivers

That can happen
I have only used the old school oils sold for vintage engines
The additive is good too

But it needs to be in the oil all the time 

These kinds of stories make me think about a roller


----------



## m1west

Snowy Rivers said:


> That can happen
> I have only used the old school oils sold for vintage engines
> The additive is good too
> 
> But it needs to be in the oil all the time
> 
> These kinds of stories make me think about a roller


aftermarket chevy stuff is pretty in expensive.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Yes it is......(Relative term) 

I am curious about the issue with the cam in your MOPAR
Was that cam failure short term right after a rebuild ? or after a lot of usage on the engine? 

Most short term cam failures can be traced to the break in procedure and now with the oils  used.

Using too stiff of a valve spring setup during the break in time.

I always use light (Stock type springs) for the break in of the cam.

Pre oil the engine with a primer to have nearly zero run time without oil pressure.
Get the engine started and keep the RPM up to about 1500 or so and varying the speed up and down to get lots of oil thrown on the cam for the first 30 minutes of it's life....NO IDLING for at least 30 minutes of run time.

After the break in.....Dump the oil and filter.....Refill with fresh oil and a new filter ....ZDDP additive....I prefer the performance oil that has the old school formulation .....JUST MY PERSONAL PREFERENCE .


Losing a cam on a fresh build is certainly disheartening to say the least.

Some cam failures happen due to lifter issues......I have heard and read that there are some trashy lifters that are sold under good names...but are made across the pond and the contact surface is not heat treated correctly and some actually have the wrong spherical grind on the face....

Flat tappet is actually misleading....The face that contacts the came is ground with a slight convex surface and the cam lobes have a .002" taper to promote lifter rotation.....
Still....even with a lot of care and proper break in ....a cam failure can happen......I started working in the auto industry back in 1970 and have personally only had 1 cam die on me during the break in.......I count my blessings on that.....

As you well know....cleaning up the mess is a pain........

I am not a real fan of the guide bar type roller lifters needed on the early Chevy small blocks.....The later stuff with the lifter guides in the valley are nice.......


----------



## m1west

was a running truck with over 50K on the motor


----------



## Snowy Rivers

The new oil formulations were likely to blame......
50K on an engine is very low to lose a cam.
What oil were you using ? 

I have beat my head against the wall on this oil thing.....There are a few good oils that are aimed at the performance engine market and contain high levels of Zinc and phosphorus.....

These oils are a tad more spendy than run of the mill stuff for the modern crew of engines with Roller cams....But the increased cost is minimal .....


----------



## m1west

I was using Valvoline VR-1 high zink racing oil. I still use it in my hauler and my old ford tractor.


----------



## m1west

I was on the way back from the cabin, I started hearing what I thought at first was a knock, so I pulled over and opened the hood. At idol everything was fine but as soon as throttle was applied it was a pop in the carb. I pulled that plug wire and went on, by the time I was almost home it was popping in another cylinder and the temp. was on the rise. I shut it off at home and it turned over slowly and wouldn't re start. Next day I pulled the valve covers and intake. There was a mound of metal flake in the valley and was progressing from lobe to lobe, I wouldn't have made it very much further. I pulled the pan, rod cap and a main cap. It was in everything grooving the crank and bearings. it was toast.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

That is a really sad deal.......

Be interesting to know what caused that failure to start that way....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Got some good work done today.
Finished up the LH Bridge beam and got the entire mass of blocking removed.....Rear cabin it sitting with its full weight on the cat.....

Decided to add a pair of gussets between the rear beam upright and the top rail of the tub to add a bit more stability given the tall nature of things......

A bit more work to do....Mostly I need to clean the new parts up and get some paint on them....Weather is still good....But that is sure to change soon...

Once the rear beams are painted it's off the the very front mounts  (B pillar) 
The exhaust rear pipes may get changed.....Still not quite sure if I want to do the veranda on the back.....
The exhaust is such that several options are available easily

This rig is definitely going to be a tall drink of water......


----------



## m1west

Snowy Rivers said:


> Got some good work done today.
> Finished up the LH Bridge beam and got the entire mass of blocking removed.....Rear cabin it sitting with its full weight on the cat.....
> 
> Decided to add a pair of gussets between the rear beam upright and the top rail of the tub to add a bit more stability given the tall nature of things......
> 
> A bit more work to do....Mostly I need to clean the new parts up and get some paint on them....Weather is still good....But that is sure to change soon...
> 
> Once the rear beams are painted it's off the the very front mounts  (B pillar)
> The exhaust rear pipes may get changed.....Still not quite sure if I want to do the veranda on the back.....
> The exhaust is such that several options are available easily
> 
> This rig is definitely going to be a tall drink of water......


Yep , no side hilling for you.


----------



## vintagebike

or maybe this...


----------



## Snowy Rivers

hAAAAAAAAAAAA.....I don't think this old 2100 is gonna have any issues with side hills.....

My only concern was having the rear supports at 20" long and the support anchored near the bottom of the frame...

The mid and front mounts are only a few inches above the cat frame .

If you look at the first pic TOP ROW LH SIDE.....You can see the rear support that sits at the lower edge of the lowest frame section.......

This entire mounting does give room under the body for extra stuff......Air tanks and goodies.....

As far as side hilling goes.....This cat should be fine....The road wheels are still at the factory 92" C/L With the tracks at 44" wide the overall width will be 11'- 4".....

I will not say that a good side hill won't tend to induce a little butt pucker.....But the mass of weight is low.

Main frame, axles, tires and wheels, tracks, engine and tranny are all extremely low.....The cabs are all that's up any distance.....

Could do some calc's and figure out the CG ....But the likelihood of issues are slim.....NOW I suppose one could arrange to get into trouble if they worked at it......

Some of the Tuckers are pretty tall, but they seem fine........Again.....Hanging it out waaaaaaaaaaay too far can get the pucker factor up greatly......

Today was tear down and paint day.....LH SIDE BEAM back off, cleaned and painted.....Reinstalled.....

Had to go get more paint.....Store was out of the color I wanted.....Finally got paint.....

Tomorrow we will rip off the RH side and get it painted and back on......Then up to the front of the S10 cabin and work on the mount....Middle mounts will be the last to go in.....Once the cabin is sitting on the front and rears the mid ship mounts will be easy to build to fit.......

Weather is staying nice.....Strange for this late though.......


----------



## m1west

Had a Thiokol 603 pretty low and wide, still didn't like the side hill feeling, mainly because you can slide sideways down the mountain side. For whatever reason , I'm assuming its tied to traction and the differential. but it seems the low side track always spins first. Have seen Tuckers stuck in a ditch on one side, two tracks are a little better but it can happen to them too.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Oh yes.....all the above.....
A cat with the Planetary drive is somewhat better than the open diffy drive of the Tucker.....But the only drive that will deliver full power equally to the tracks are the Hydrostatic systems........

Side hill situations of any serious amount certainly can cause the "Dreaded side slide"   The grousers on my 2100 have "Slide stops" at the ends of every one.....But these are only an end cap on the grouser......Once MA GRAVITY finds your butt it may be very hard for those little end caps to hold onto enough to stop the slide.....

Fine loose powder snow.....All bets are off.....Try and swing the machine around and get it headed with the slide.....Once the slide is arrested ......Stop and clean out your shorts.....   .....

I looked at a 3700 Cat before I grabbed the 2100........The poor kitty had serious issues with the Hydraulic drive....$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$  OMG.....I passed up that money pit

A hydro has some very nice perks.....Repair costs are not one of them....

Has anyone installed something like an "Air Locker" in the Diffy's on a Tucker ????

This would really go a long way to stopping losing power to one entire side.

The other way is of course a WINCH....
I have thought about a Winch for my 2100.....But that is certainly quite a ways down the trail..


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Both Bridge beams are all painted and back in the cat now....
Tired of using tree parts to jack the rear of the S10 cabin up in the back...Decided to build a dedicated jack....

I had an old 22.5 duplex Alcoa wheel off the transfer trailer from about 15 years ago....Blew a tire and trashed the wheel on the asphalt......

Finally found this wheel a new job.

Going to bolt in a chunk of channel...Weld on a piece of 3" x 5" box tube (Laying in the corner) And add in a piece of 1" threaded rod to a smaller channel to make a saddle.....

I need to do some drilling and a bit of machining to make the thing work...

This will be a dedicated jack for the rear of the cat cabin......Will not have to sort through the firewood to find suitable blocking....
When it comes time to remove/replace the rear cabin....LIFE WILL BE MUCH EASIER.....Safer too........

In most instances the cabin will be lifted up and off the mounts with the rear bridge beams in place....But should one or both need to be removed to access stuff without removing the cabin...The jack can fit under the back of the S10 Wagon body and over the bulkhead the rear mounts bolt to right in the center of the body....

Much nicer to deal with than piles of logs and 4 x 6 lumber....  

Pics


----------



## Snowy Rivers

And onward we go.....Lots of EOTF  today....(Engineering on the fly)
Went after the front mount beam on the S-Wagon cabin.

Everything has to be built in place to get things to fit right.....First stumbling block ....The front beam on the rear cabin is NOT PARALLEL to the rear one on the front cab....OFF BY OVER 1/2 INCH

Chased that CHIT for two hours before I found that the nut plate on the front mounts were full of hard dust and could not move as much as needed to allow the beams to sit square.....

Finally got things under 1/8".......Good enough.....

With the new mount pockets in place....Everything tacked up......NOW how do we get the sucker out of there to finish it up.....


Another Chinese puzzle.....It must be slide forward then the beam twisted to allow the mounts to face rearward.....Remove the rubber mounts....Slide the beam forward more until it can be lifted out from between the cabs.....

The mount pockets all welded in place and the side supports added....

Now.....Getting it back in took a little finesse......but it went in.......All lined up and the weight sitting on spacers above the beam to allow fabricating the attaching brackets that include an "Anti twist" part to keep the cantilevered mount from twisting the tube....

Tomorrows task.......


Chasing that 1/2" was annoying.......The entire setup on the front cab was measured off of accurate datum points taken off the 2100 tub/frame.

Possibly some  GM manufacturing errors clashed with some of my slight errors and ended up making that big ugly 1/2" mess....

But with it finally pruned down to >1/8" .....We can live with it....


Hard to get pics in there....But got some to look at.....

May have to get a couple longer bolts for the two front mounts......

The mount center bolts are right over the side of the tub flange...Had to space things up some ...plus get the pocket so the lower part of the rubber mount and the big washer can be installed and tools in there to deal with it....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Wrapped up the fabrication on the front mount beam of the S-Wagon cabin

I can't weld any more parts to the beam and still get it in and out of the chassis....Decided to make a bolt on support for the ends of the front beam....

Later on ...once the cabins are back off for completion of the power train I may decide to weld the brackets to the beam ....Then this beam will bolt to the tub with two bolts per side as the others have.....

Until that time the extra goodies can't be on the beam and get it out of the cat due to available space....
The one bolt hole into the tube must get drilled after the beam is out to get painted....
Not enough room to get the drill in there...Just used a transfer punch and marked the location after I welded the tab in....

Tomorrow it's all apart with this beam and toss some paint at it.....Then back into the cat........


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Looking at the Weather forecast coming up later this week.

Our later than normal summer like weather is about to come to an abrupt ending....

Rain is in the forecast...BIG TIME  (Subjective)
Going to try and wrap up things on the rear cabin.....
Very likely that working outside....at least to any extent is going to be over for the season.....real soon

Long range is showing possible first dusting of snow at the 4-5K ft level in the mountains around here........

Gonna clean up the last of the rear cabin mount work in the next couple days.....Then get all the parts, bits and pieces of the interior of the S-Wagon cleared out and stored for the winter.....

Once this stuff is handled.....Then its on to building the BADAZZ 406 incher to power this beast....

Much work can be done indoors .....

The block is all ready and on the stand wrapped in a plastic bag......

The crankshaft is still in need to a good cleaning as it has sat in a corner gathering dust since I got it from the rebuilder's supply outfit...

Pistons and rods are all assembled....Rings are on the shelf....as are bearings and several other parts.

The heads as mentioned a bit ago are in the shop......
Just have to see how things go......Maybe by spring we can have the new engine ready for a test running .....I have a chevy bell housing to use along with some other bits and pieces to construct a usable test stand on wheels......

Roll that bad boy outside and lite it off.....Break in the cam really good and check for any issues.....Change the oil and filter and have the rig ready to go into the cat.....


See what shakes out


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Front beam assembly out this morning.....Weather was very cloudy with a light mist....Not worth a damn for painting..

Did some other chores getting ready for the rains that are coming.

By 1pm the skies had cleared off and things warmed up a tad....Shot the paint on the parts......By tomorrow the paint will be dried well enough to be handled.....

Get that bad boy back under the cabin and lashed down.....

Wed/Thurs. we are doing nut shell runs to get our stocks built up for the start of the winter season..

We run ground up nut shells in the pellet stoves to heat the shack......The plants are operating now and it is far more pleasant to do this when the weather is decent rather than dodging rain squalls or snow....

And it was a great day all in all....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Front mount beam all back in and secured....Had to add a shim between the mount unit and the body on both sides...

1/4" on the LH side and 1/8" on the RH side to get things where they needed to be....I found shims of about these dims in those spots when the S-Wagon body came off the frame.....

I must have done something right.....

Looking at the one piccy that shows the rear mount beam on the front cab and the front beam on the rear cabin.....I need to add a shim on the rear mounts of the front cabin to get it at the same elevation as the rear one.....

That can happen when the rig goes back together for the last time......

I am pleased at what has been accomplished this summer on the kitty cat.....

Weather is going to shut this off here really soon......


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Nothing on the cat YESTERDAY OR LIKELY TODAY EITHER.....
The lovely "Summer like" weather we have had through most of October has been a blessing as far as getting work done on the cat....

Yesterday was a grand day with  warm temps and very little wind....A true Shirt Sleeve day....

We took advantage of this weather blessing and got after getting  our supply of nut shells stocked up to full capacity...

We burn ground up hazelnut shells in our pellet stoves to heat the house...
The material is plentiful here as we are in the heart of Hazelnut country.

Loaded up the outfit yesterday and picked up our first load of shells about 10am and got into unloading by 11am

We finished emptying the "Can" (3 yard dumpster) by about 1pm.

Headed back down to the plant and reloaded the can......

Got home about 3pm and decided to park the rig and get the first load (Barreled up in 55 gallon drums) put in the barn and wait until this morning to tear into the second load......

This is not hard work....But us 70's OLD FOLKS don't move like we used to.......

Where we live the choices of heating options are limited.....
The house has an electric furnace (Poor choice of heat $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$)
We use the AC and that is fine.
Other options are OIL.......WAAAAAAAAAAY TOO SPENDY.
Propane.....Still too costly and for either oil of propane we would need to replace equipment......

We have 3 pellet stoves located around the house that handle the heat duties.....A little one.....A medium sized one and a BIG ONE......

Changing from little to big or adding more than one burning to the mix allows dealing with pretty much all the seasons weather....

The fact that the shells are totally renewable and for the greenies "Carbon neutral".....I am not a fan of all the carbon noise..

So here are a few pics from yesterday......Barrels, The tractor, The Burb, Trailer and the can.....A loaded barrel.

Today will be a similar scene for a few hours and then break the outfit apart and put away all the tools until mid winter when we do this all again...

Just a rundown on all the hoses and gizmos....

We use the big shop vac to provide air transport.
The barrel is situated on a dolly with a cover on it with a vacuum port and an inlet port....

The inlet port goes to a long hose that transports the shells to the barrel......The vacuum removes excess dust and dirt from the air stream as an added benefit.....

Once the barrel is full the inlet plugs up and the vacuum screams .....Alert to shut down...barrel full...

Toss the lid on and secure the band clamp....Do it again.....A normal haul will usually fill 10 barrels.....

The sessions of yesterday and today will get us back to about 60 barrels total.......We try to run on the top 1/3 of the supply just in case of a severe weather event of anything that could prevent us from getting more supply at regular intervals...

Normally 10 is the magic number...When we have 10 empties we watch the weather and get into the plant for more dry shells

From mid October until late spring the plant will be running processing the crop .....They get a very few months to pull maintenance on the machinery and then do it all again.....

The past few years have seen BUMPER CROPS.....So we can usually expect to be able to get product all through the Fall to spring......

For those that are curious....The cost is 2 cents per pound.....$30 to fill the 3 yard can.....

Then once the barrels are full and stored.....We drag out "Munchy" and process the "Half shells" into stove ready materials...
With 4 barrels in the shop area ready to go.....Four 5 gallon buckets of material will keep our two most used stoves running per day during the cold weather.......      




Having machine tools make so many things possible besides sow cats.... 
The slow feeding of the material into Munchy was done just for the video.....This little beast can handle the stuff just about as fast as you can scoop it into the hopper .....I drops into a tub and from there gets dumped into a barrel.....All good...



We have heated this way since 1992.......Been a good run......The older we get the slower we are....but we are still at it...

Keeping the ranch house warm makes for happy thoughts about snow cats......

Some pics

Pretty much the same layout every time........
The Skid steer picks up the Can and sits it on the trailer
The little tractor transports the barrels to and from the barn
The slab make a nice working place
The shop vac does the "Sucky job"  
Barrel dolly makes handling the full barrels easy.
Takes only a short time and we get into a rhythm and in the groove.....
Takes about 4 minutes to fill each barrel .....
The removal/refitting of the clamp on tops......Some have a bolt through a clamp....Some have a lever lock clamp.....A few are plastic lids with lever lock clamps.....
The barrels were mostly free from a jelly plant close by...Beggars and the can't be choosy thing ya know...
Roll out the full barrel and set it on the far side of the slab.....Roll up an empty, get the lid off...toss on the "Barrel master" lid gizmo.....hook up the hoses and turn on the vacuum.......Access slide gate in bottom of the can allows an easy place to SUCK from.

The last barrel full is retrieved over the top of the can with the long extension wands .....Suck the can clean and good to put it away....

And that is how we do this......

The wait time while the barrel is filling allows time to think about snow cat things...

Still hoping to get a bit of cat things done before the weather goes totally sour.......


----------



## DAVENET

A little labor involved, but that is some cheap heat.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Yes...Old bones get a workout.....But no ants, no other pests..

We are heating 2300 sq ft ranch style house....
Our two main stoves are diagonal from one another at opposite ends of the house....

Very open floor plan with no hallways .....Stand in the living room and throw a ball all the way to the family room.......

We figure about $150 to $200 to heat for the season.....THIS YEAR A BIT MORE DUE TO THE PRICE OF FUEL TO FEED THE GREEN MOOSE  454 POWERED

Still quite affordable......

All the nutty stuff is done for a while now.....Weather MAY allow a bit of work on the cat on Sunday.....

Most of what I have on the schedule is cleaning stuff up and getting things ready to winter over....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

well now

The outdoor work looks to be pretty well over for this season....
Got a call from the machine shop yesterday..

Good news (Not really unexpected) the Vortec heads are in great shape  (No cracks and the decks are very good)
So we're moving ahead on those bad boys.

Still thrashing through the final stages of  cleaning up my downstairs rental apartment.

This area of the house is right behind many of the pictures of the cat.....Was my parents digs during their last few years.

Last 8 years we have had a wonderful gal in here....

She and her mom bought a place together......

So we have a new gal coming on board soon...

Now I can gather my thoughts and get to work stuffing the Mighty Mouse together....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

NOT MUCH CAT STUFF GOING ON....Raining a lot.....Computer took the big Chit.....Needed the OS updated.
Been running Zorin 0S9 and my apps were failing to open.

Updated to ZORIN OS16.2   (Linux box)

Finished it up this morning and it is running smoooooooooooooooth.

Had to add a cat theme to the screen......
60" TV screen....Really makes life easy on the eyes.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Wretched weather.....Sideways rain....Nothing going on outside.

Gonna move inside and clean up the shop and start getting ready to go after the 406 engine for the cat.....

Catching up on PRE WINTER stuff around the ranch has taken all my time since the rains started........

Lots of parts that were scavenged off the Vortec engine all stacked up on the work bench in a heap.....Up until now this was not any big issue.....

I need the space to get things ready to build an engine.......
I have enough new parts to get the short block well under way........
Finally made the choice for the cam shaft.....Going to go with the Comp cams XE268H 
After the machinist and I beat over many scenarios and he called me to let me know that thew heads were indeed in good shape the plan came together.

Now it's time to start looking like we know what we're doing


----------



## m1west

Snowy Rivers said:


> Wretched weather.....Sideways rain....Nothing going on outside.
> 
> Gonna move inside and clean up the shop and start getting ready to go after the 406 engine for the cat.....
> 
> Catching up on PRE WINTER stuff around the ranch has taken all my time since the rains started........
> 
> Lots of parts that were scavenged off the Vortec engine all stacked up on the work bench in a heap.....Up until now this was not any big issue.....
> 
> I need the space to get things ready to build an engine.......
> I have enough new parts to get the short block well under way........
> Finally made the choice for the cam shaft.....Going to go with the Comp cams XE268H
> After the machinist and I beat over many scenarios and he called me to let me know that thew heads were indeed in good shape the plan came together.
> 
> Now it's time to start looking like we know what we're doing


what is the duration@.050 and the lobe separation angle on the cam


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Here is the specs...
I have used one of these in the past in a 4x4 .....Was decent....With the really low gear ratio in the cat.....should be a decent cam..

With the 4oo plus inches in the engine this cam will not be real rumpy.....but will sound good  and the RPM range that the cat will be using ( 2000/4500 ) it should put things in the sweet spot for the Vortec heads too..
The split duration is a good thing with the Vortec heads as well.
The lift is not excessive either


I have looked at a lot of grinds and ......Arrrrrgh...just waaay too many choices.....The bigger cubes should be a happy camper with this cam......The last one I used was in a 350 in a 4x4 with big rubber and not particularly deep gears......It was OK but .....Some much deeper gearing would have helped a lot.......

In the cat running at a reasonable 12 MPH will put the RPM at 3500   (3 speed auto tranny in direct drive)
4200 RPM will yield 14 MPH

I really do not see any reason to push the machine faster...
But a venture up to 5000 RPM could net 17 MPH
The gearing in the OC12 are 5.44 R&P and  2.44 drop boxes
Down in the business hole in the tranny should be quite sufficient to BREAK STUFF if one were to get stupid......
LOW gear in the tranny 2.52:1.....R&P 5.44:1.....DROP BOXES 2.44:1
LOW gear at 2000 RPM is about 2.7 MPH
Numbers based on zero slippage at the tracks....Just straight math....no dynamics in the mix
Converter slippage will certainly factor in.....The TH350 does not use a Lockup converter

*Engine Family: *Chevrolet 262-400 c.i. 8 Cylinder (1958-1998)
*RPM Operating Range: *1,600-5,800
*Grind Number: *XE268H
*Cam Type: *Hydraulic Flat Tappet
*Lifter Style: *Hydraulic Flat Tappet
*Camshaft Series: *Xtreme Energy
*Usage: *Street/Performance
*California Proposition 65: *WARNING: Cancer and Reproductive Harm P65Warnings.ca.gov
*Advertised Intake Duration: *268
*Advertised Exhaust Duration: *280
*Intake Duration at .050 Inch Lift: *224      <..........................**********
*Exhaust Duration at .050 Inch Lift: *230  <..........................**********
*Intake Valve Lift: *0.477
*Exhaust Valve Lift: *0.48
*Lobe Lift Intake: *0.318
*Lobe Lift Exhaust: *0.32
*Lobe Separation: *110      <............................*********
*Intake Centerline: *106
*Exhaust Close ATDC: *27
*Intake Open BTDC: *26
*Exhaust Open BBDC: *72
*Intake Close ABDC: *61
*Camshaft Gear Attachment: *3-Bolt

 *Product Attachments* 

 *Recommended Components*


----------



## m1west

Snowy Rivers said:


> Here is the specs...
> I have used one of these in the past in a 4x4 .....Was decent....With the really low gear ratio in the cat.....should be a decent cam..
> 
> With the 4oo plus inches in the engine this cam will not be real rumpy.....but will sound good  and the RPM range that the cat will be using ( 2000/4500 ) it should put things in the sweet spot for the Vortec heads too..
> The split duration is a good thing with the Vortec heads as well.
> The lift is not excessive either
> 
> 
> I have looked at a lot of grinds and ......Arrrrrgh...just waaay too many choices.....The bigger cubes should be a happy camper with this cam......The last one I used was in a 350 in a 4x4 with big rubber and not particularly deep gears......It was OK but .....Some much deeper gearing would have helped a lot.......
> 
> In the cat running at a reasonable 12 MPH will put the RPM at 3500   (3 speed auto tranny in direct drive)
> 4200 RPM will yield 14 MPH
> 
> I really do not see any reason to push the machine faster...
> But a venture up to 5000 RPM could net 17 MPH
> The gearing in the OC12 are 5.44 R&P and  2.44 drop boxes
> Down in the business hole in the tranny should be quite sufficient to BREAK STUFF if one were to get stupid......
> LOW gear in the tranny 2.52:1.....R&P 5.44:1.....DROP BOXES 2.44:1
> LOW gear at 2000 RPM is about 2.7 MPH
> Numbers based on zero slippage at the tracks....Just straight math....no dynamics in the mix
> Converter slippage will certainly factor in.....The TH350 does not use a Lockup converter
> 
> *Engine Family: *Chevrolet 262-400 c.i. 8 Cylinder (1958-1998)
> *RPM Operating Range: *1,600-5,800
> *Grind Number: *XE268H
> *Cam Type: *Hydraulic Flat Tappet
> *Lifter Style: *Hydraulic Flat Tappet
> *Camshaft Series: *Xtreme Energy
> *Usage: *Street/Performance
> *California Proposition 65: *WARNING: Cancer and Reproductive Harm P65Warnings.ca.gov
> *Advertised Intake Duration: *268
> *Advertised Exhaust Duration: *280
> *Intake Duration at .050 Inch Lift: *224      <..........................**********
> *Exhaust Duration at .050 Inch Lift: *230  <..........................**********
> *Intake Valve Lift: *0.477
> *Exhaust Valve Lift: *0.48
> *Lobe Lift Intake: *0.318
> *Lobe Lift Exhaust: *0.32
> *Lobe Separation: *110      <............................*********
> *Intake Centerline: *106
> *Exhaust Close ATDC: *27
> *Intake Open BTDC: *26
> *Exhaust Open BBDC: *72
> *Intake Close ABDC: *61
> *Camshaft Gear Attachment: *3-Bolt
> 
> *Product Attachments*
> 
> *Recommended Components*


thats pretty close to the cam in my Magnum, only difference is mine is 118 on the intake. Heavy 73 power wagon with 1 ton running gear. It weighs over 7,000 pounds. Off road in low range it does well, on the street, until its hits 30 mph its a pig.


----------



## m1west

14 mph will feel like 100, the 603 I had was pretty sketchy at the top of 3rd gear.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Yes 14 mph is cookin in a cat.......The track setup and the steering arrangement in these can be really spooky at speed...

A hydrostatic drive like the 3700 are far more predictable than the OC12 planetary steering......

I drove a 2100 for a few months one season at one of the ski resorts here......This was a stock 2100 V8 powered with the 14' blade and the drag out back......
12 mph balls to the wall.....Felt like you were flying.....Those 57" wide tracks whizzzzzing around right outside the door was a tad unnerving at times....Break a grouser and have it start beating on stuff was always good for MAX PUCKER.....

The low gears in the cat will allow the engine to get up on the step quickly ....so there should not be any "Piggy"


----------



## m1west

My experience with the 2 track is on a one lane steep switchback mountain road. Did most of it at 5 mph at times I stepped it up but always ended up scaring myself. Seemed like speed increase and steering action increased by square. Almost put it sideways doing about 25 down hill, steering got very touchy and over reactive at that speed. At 5 mph it was a workout. Honestly I am much happier with the mini track van.


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## Snowy Rivers

The big problem with the OC12 steering....OR THE OC4 ...or any other planetary type box.....The track on the side the turn is initiated towards SLOWS DOWN BY 1/3 and the opposite side speeds up by 1/3.........For slight turns/corrections at speed it acts more like a "Warp Speed Frog".....Nasty jerks instead of a steady/easy change in direction......

The 2100 being much heavier and usually packing a buttload of equipment and or shoving a blade....plus carrying the huge tracks was subject to severe steering band wear as compared to a Spryte or an Imp

The 2100 had/has hydraulic assist on the steering servos that assures the bands are locked to the drum whenever the steering is activated as opposed to the hand lever actuated master cylinder setup where the band pressure can be feathered and the resulting steering is not near as harsh.......

Hence the change to the hydrostatic steering (3700 cats) and others....All new stuff is hydro...

An easy steady drift can be initiated or a drastic change of up to and including running the tracks in opposite directions.

I have lamented over the steering on My cat A LOT
The final choice is nailed down to using air brake chambers operating two regular hydraulic brake master cylinders....

The full stroke of the master cylinder will be able to fully extend the steering slave cylinders on the OC12...

The choice on the design has been beat around for the last couple years......I had looked at using the hand lever setup like the Spryte.......The large tracks on the machine (Narrowed up to 44" from the original 57") are still big and heavy and will need firm action on the steering bands.....Too soft of an application will wear the bands rapidly.......

I looked at a new rendition of the original hydraulic setup .....but the parts needed to do it easily are not available....
The original steering control units are long since discontinued by the maker......

YESSSSSS...There were/are alternatives BUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT....The cost got stupid expensive and were not an off the shelf item........

Using air over hydraulics was a simple way to go and all the parts needed are off the shelf.

The air is provided by a modified AC compressor (Jeep crowd has proven this adaptation quite dependable)
The master cylinders are again...off the shelf.......
The original slave cylinders on the OC12 are easy to get and the design is a proven one....And the parts are there on the box....

Air controls were an easy adaptation of two Big Rig trailer brake air valves  (Trolly valve) 
I grabbed a pair of Freightliner trailer valves.....

These allow bring the air pressure up gradually instead of BANG.......
The pressure needed is 65 psi to the air brake chamber to reach the needed 400 psi on the slaves
A regulated (65psi) source of air to the valves will allow the controls to be  activated fully and reach optimal pressure at the bands...

There is the ability to "Feather" the pressure some for small steering corrections at speed ...hopefully without the ballistic Frog results....

All air lines and fittings are a standard nylon DOT air brake line... Quick release valves, relay valves, check valves.....All this stuff is off the shelf goodies that can be replaced easily and readily sourced at NAPA or many on line sellers

Air tanks are standard sized big rig stuff....In fact the tanks should be able to fit on top of the rear support bridge assemblies I finished up this fall......Plenty of room in there....

The pictures are the actual steering control console

The blue area is where the ignition switch goes.....I wanted a standard switch....easy to get at and did not need the complex lock assembly buried down in the column...
Since acquiring the S 10 Blazer I saved the original tilt column from it and will swap it into the front cab in place of what I had built....The original column in the front cab had been mangled badly.... Was junk..

All the factory multi function switches in the column from the Blazer were pristine....Just anchor the column steering shaft solid and mount the air control assembly where the wheel fastened on

The black "Nerf pad"  allows the operators hands to rest on it and then activate the steering with comfort....Simple pull the lever to the pad.....65 psi....Full steering pressure

Gauge panel can been seen in enough detail to be acceptable.....Heater controls to the right and head lights to the left...
All signal and wiper functions remain as per Ma General.....NOOO the cruise control is not gonna be used...More gauges to handle the air system will end up in an A PILLAR pod.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

I got a call from the machine shop a bit ago...

The Vortec heads for the 406 engine are done.....
Since they were in the shop I had him magnaflux them just to be sure they were sound,

Heads are perfect....No cracks and they are flat too......Did not need to surface them....

He drilled them for the steam holes and the RH head to work with the old style coolant bypass like the gen 1 engines.

So we can use the water pump off the 1990 Serp drive on the 400 block and everything will be sweet....

He checked the spring retainer to seal clearance with the cam I am going to use (Comp X3 268H )

All good....did not need to cut the guides down....enough clearance already.....

Total package with a set of head gaskets...$470.....
Not a bad deal at all......

Considering that I sold the short block and left overs of the L31 engine and got back all my original $150 plus some....The $470 for a set of fresh Vortec 062 heads is a steal...

Gaining on the engine build.....Getting excited a bit.....


----------



## Snowy Rivers

TYPO ALERT    CAM IS AM XE268H


----------



## western auto

Snowy Rivers said:


> TYPO ALERT    CAM IS AM XE268H


extreme energy , same cam i just built a 460 with was very happy with that on a chevy build i did for a dirt track car i used to have, tons of torque, snappy throttle , i could just flat foot the throttle out of a turn and hold it down, was faster than 8k race engines i competed with and you couldnt blow it up/ was running stock 86 vette bottom w 100k miles/ angle milled double humps and that cam w a 500 2bbl .......loved it


----------



## Snowy Rivers

In a stock 400 SBC We will not be grabbing the big RPM....
4000/4500 should be about it as far as revs go.....
The big inch mouse motor will provide good torque though.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Now that the heads are done the time has come to think long and hard about the intake manifold and the carburetor...

The Vortec heads require a special intake manifold that has only 8 bolts instead of the usual 12 bolts found on a small block Chevy.
Several aluminum units are readily available for carburetor applications....So this is a non issue.

The carburetor thing has always been a gray area and I had planned on using a Quadrajet.......
The plan is changing some now.....There are some great "Off road truck" carbs that are designed to operate at fairly radical angles UP/DOWN ..SIDEWAYS and not have issues.

I have had my hands on several of the major players in the carburetor market over the years.....and have always tended to gravitate to the Holley.....
I am looking seriously at the 670 CFM   "OFF ROAD TRUCK AVENGER" 4 BARREL with vacuum secondaries and a manual choke......

Manual choke is simple ....pretty much bullet proof (Unless the squirrels eat the cable off) 
670cfm is plenty given the RPM range the engine will see.......

Basic connections for the throttle cable......
No worries on tranny connections....THE TH350 does not use a throttle pressure cable....Only a kick down cable.

I am setting the tranny up as a "Full manual select shift box" 
The kick down will be eliminated.......

The manual choke requires only a cable......No electric connections or choke stoves and such.....

The Holley carbs can and will ice up in cold damp weather....but the planned hot air box to feed the air cleaner.

The Vortec heads do not use an exhaust crossover at all....So heat for the carb has to be directed from an external source.....
The aluminum intake manifolds conduct heat readily and will get warmed up fairly quick from coolant flow and oil splash on the valley side.

NOT USING AN AIR GAP TYPE...


I had purchased a Q jet back in the early stages of the build....but am really having second thoughts....

I have looked at just about all the options.....From a stand alone setup to run a stock fuel injection to Holley fuel injections to the various carburetors......


SIMPLE...NO MAGIC BOXES ON THIS RODEO just feels good.......


----------



## m1west

you will have more problems with vapor lock than iceing. Better have a good cooling system also


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Electric fuel booster pumps should handle any issues


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Actually...of all the rigs I have owned ...the only unit that ever had a vapor lock problem was a 32 foot gas powered motor home with a Chevy 454 in it....Real hot weather (90's) and hard pulls and then shut it off.....Then it would have issues...Added a booster pump at the tank....No more problem.

The cat will have the fuel tanks above the fuel pump inlet and the lines will be out in the open just under the top rail of the 2100 tub.

Considering the fact that this thing will likely not see much HOT weather running.....it should be fine.......

I had planned on a pass through booster pump  JUST IN CASE OF running a tank dry before switching to the other one.....


----------



## m1west

Snowy Rivers said:


> Actually...of all the rigs I have owned ...the only unit that ever had a vapor lock problem was a 32 foot gas powered motor home with a Chevy 454 in it....Real hot weather (90's) and hard pulls and then shut it off.....Then it would have issues...Added a booster pump at the tank....No more problem.
> 
> The cat will have the fuel tanks above the fuel pump inlet and the lines will be out in the open just under the top rail of the 2100 tub.
> 
> Considering the fact that this thing will likely not see much HOT weather running.....it should be fine.......
> 
> I had planned on a pass through booster pump  JUST IN CASE OF running a tank dry before switching to the other one.....


Did all the above with the Thiokol, even built a heat shield around the carburetor and a wood spacer under the carb, still did it. Gets extremely hot under hood going slow burning lots of rpm. Todays gas sucks especially winter gas. Basically boils at room temperature. Lots of guys have went with the EFI swap for that reason. Im about to do the same with my Dodge truck. I like simple but I'm tired of it.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

That is an interesting happening.....

My 2100 with the S10 body will have a huge amount of room under the hood area.....
The original S10 grille will let a lot of free air in and around the engine...
You had a smaller Thiokol ?????
The engine is in a tight enclosure .....This can sure change things a bunch.......

We will have to see how it all shakes out......


----------



## Snowy Rivers

After we discussed this issue I remembered a little ditty that came out years ago......I saw this when I worked at a MOPAR shop in the 70's and saw it used later in rigs when the return line systems came into use...
A 3 port fuel filter.....
INLET --->   and two outlets  ...The standard outlet to the carb plus a much smaller outlet with a small orifice in it that returned fuel to the tank.....

A constant small flow of fuel bleeding through and returning to the tank stopped the dreaded fuel boiling in the lines.....

I did some further research on the issue........

The advent of the "in tank" fuel pump being a pusher rather than a suction type pump fixed the problem ....And along with a constant  bleed return system fixed the mess.

I may scrap the idea of using the engine mounted fuel pump and go to an electric pump......Or may just add an electric as a backup.


With all the old Tucker and other cats out there I would think that the issue of vapor lock would be rampant and if so we would hear about it in the forum ?????
Maybe others will chime in with info on this subject


----------



## m1west

Snowy Rivers said:


> After we discussed this issue I remembered a little ditty that came out years ago......I saw this when I worked at a MOPAR shop in the 70's and saw it used later in rigs when the return line systems came into use...
> A 3 port fuel filter.....
> INLET --->   and two outlets  ...The standard outlet to the carb plus a much smaller outlet with a small orifice in it that returned fuel to the tank.....
> 
> A constant small flow of fuel bleeding through and returning to the tank stopped the dreaded fuel boiling in the lines.....
> 
> I did some further research on the issue........
> 
> The advent of the "in tank" fuel pump being a pusher rather than a suction type pump fixed the problem ....And along with a constant  bleed return system fixed the mess.
> 
> I may scrap the idea of using the engine mounted fuel pump and go to an electric pump......Or may just add an electric as a backup.
> 
> 
> With all the old Tucker and other cats out there I would think that the issue of vapor lock would be rampant and if so we would hear about it in the forum ?????
> Maybe others will chime in with info on this subject


Thats why a lot of them went to the EFI conversion. Better starts, no vaporloc and no elevation richness. I think you have to have greater than 15 psi with the new gas to keep vapor loc away. The return line and electric pump pusher are workarounds but how do you keep the fuel from boiling in the bowl of the carb. I used a wood spacer and it still did it. I carried a bucket of snow in the cab to slap on the carb to keep it running at times. They get a lot hotter than you imagine. Back in the day it wasn't an issue because of the gas. The only sure way around it is EFI or AV gas.


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## Snowy Rivers

This is a real game changer for sure......
We are at a great time in the build to deal with this too....

I have not purchased an intake manifold yet and have only gave thought to changing to a different fueling system.

I great time for more research and possibly a CHANGE ORDER.....


----------



## m1west

Look at the Holley sniper EFI thats the one I think I'm going with


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## Snowy Rivers

Will do....


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## Snowy Rivers

I looked at the Sniper EFI.
Nice looking setup .....

I am still very very nervous about complex electronics on anything heading into the bush....

The controller is all onboard in the  throttle body.....

We have discussed the issues of heat and vapor lock...

I have battled the electronics in the GM 6.5 diesel injection system that are under the hood in the heat....

Having a fuel system that is all electronic control and not easily repairable on the trail is a no go for me...

Routing fuel lines and such to keep excess heat away  is not a problem.....I am going to go with the off road truck avenger Holley 670 CFM carb
Also install the return line fuel filter to keep fuel moving.......The fuel tanks are outboard of the frame and in  the rear wheel house area of the body      COLD FUEL

I feel far better with this arrangement.....

In a street rig where you can get help if it breaks....A different story......Call AAA and gitterdone.

Another small change order.....

I had decided to go with the hydraulic flat tappet cam mentioned earlier.....

A buddy built a 350 SBC for his JEEP and used a similar cam.....Cam died after about a week......HELLUVA MESS
Total tear down and its not pretty....

The crap made a real mess ....Not sure exactly what all got ruined.....I will eventually get to see....

I do not know what oil he used.....He has built many engines and should be savvy on cam break in...

Since my project still has time to change stuff  (No cam bought yet and the heads are still at the shop)

I do not want to deal with the flat tappet cam issues and today's oils

Going to go with a Hydraulic Roller and be done with it...../Then the oil is a non issue....AS LONG AS IT HAS SOME 
This changes does require that we do a little more work to the heads.

The valve guides need to be cut down a bit and different seals used...

Going to go with a Marine cam  XM270HR (Comp cams)  Will use the link bar roller lifters and a couple other tid bits...

This will pretty much eliminate the cam issue.

The Marine cam is designed with ramps the keep the lift speed slower and far better for long duration high speed running
A snow cat is actually more like a boat as compared to a car/truck.....High engine speed and pulling most of the time.....

This particular cam is rated at 1500 to 5500 RPM
218/224 @ .050  (INT/EXH)
.495/.503 lift        (INT/EXH)
112 LSA
This cam has about 49 degrees of overlap.....Not real lumpy.....But will have a nice sound and the power will be right in the sweet spot
The flat tappet cam was a 55 degree overlap.....

The Vortec heads like a split duration cams.....The exhaust needs a bit more duration...

Having been heavy into boats years ago...Sort of a soft spot ya know
I spoke to the shop yesterday.....and we will do the needed mods to the heads and be done with it..

A failed cam is just too damned spendy to redo.....Plus all the work involved....

And so it goes....


----------



## m1west

Snowy Rivers said:


> I looked at the Sniper EFI.
> Nice looking setup .....
> 
> I am still very very nervous about complex electronics on anything heading into the bush....
> 
> The controller is all onboard in the  throttle body.....
> 
> We have discussed the issues of heat and vapor lock...
> 
> I have battled the electronics in the GM 6.5 diesel injection system that are under the hood in the heat....
> 
> Having a fuel system that is all electronic control and not easily repairable on the trail is a no go for me...
> 
> Routing fuel lines and such to keep excess heat away  is not a problem.....I am going to go with the off road truck avenger Holley 670 CFM carb
> Also install the return line fuel filter to keep fuel moving.......The fuel tanks are outboard of the frame and in  the rear wheel house area of the body      COLD FUEL
> 
> I feel far better with this arrangement.....
> 
> In a street rig where you can get help if it breaks....A different story......Call AAA and gitterdone.
> 
> Another small change order.....
> 
> I had decided to go with the hydraulic flat tappet cam mentioned earlier.....
> 
> A buddy built a 350 SBC for his JEEP and used a similar cam.....Cam died after about a week......HELLUVA MESS
> Total tear down and its not pretty....
> 
> The crap made a real mess ....Not sure exactly what all got ruined.....I will eventually get to see....
> 
> I do not know what oil he used.....He has built many engines and should be savvy on cam break in...
> 
> Since my project still has time to change stuff  (No cam bought yet and the heads are still at the shop)
> 
> I do not want to deal with the flat tappet cam issues and today's oils
> 
> Going to go with a Hydraulic Roller and be done with it...../Then the oil is a non issue....AS LONG AS IT HAS SOME
> This changes does require that we do a little more work to the heads.
> 
> The valve guides need to be cut down a bit and different seals used...
> 
> Going to go with a Marine cam  XM270HR (Comp cams)  Will use the link bar roller lifters and a couple other tid bits...
> 
> This will pretty much eliminate the cam issue.
> 
> The Marine cam is designed with ramps the keep the lift speed slower and far better for long duration high speed running
> A snow cat is actually more like a boat as compared to a car/truck.....High engine speed and pulling most of the time.....
> 
> This particular cam is rated at 1500 to 5500 RPM
> 218/224 @ .050  (INT/EXH)
> .495/.503 lift        (INT/EXH)
> 112 LSA
> This cam has about 49 degrees of overlap.....Not real lumpy.....But will have a nice sound and the power will be right in the sweet spot
> The flat tappet cam was a 55 degree overlap.....
> 
> The Vortec heads like a split duration cams.....The exhaust needs a bit more duration...
> 
> Having been heavy into boats years ago...Sort of a soft spot ya know
> I spoke to the shop yesterday.....and we will do the needed mods to the heads and be done with it..
> 
> A failed cam is just too damned spendy to redo.....Plus all the work involved....
> 
> And so it goes....


Good move on the cam, but you are over thinking the EFI. Just about everyone on the site has changed over to it, and I don't see problems.Better cold start and drivability instantly with better MPG. Plus the no vapor lock or elevation issue. If you are scared carry a carb and regulator with you. 20 minutes and you are going again.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

I am not "Scared" of the EFI....NOT AT ALL... Great for the highway and fair weather off roading.  After having been let down out in the brush in nasty weather with no way to fix a rig.....I hate electronics in mission critical parts.

Example

The Military HMMWV Always had a mechanical injection pump......
The civilian unit with the same 6.5 diesel had the DS4 electronic pump.....Absolute nightmare......When they quit....YOU ARE SCREWED.....

Mileage on this beast is not even a worry.....PACK PLENTY....The engine is going to eat lots of it.

I do not really want to carry parts to fix a breakdown.....Fix the breakdown before it happens....Keep things simple.
WE have an old hay rig here at the ranch that has a 350 Chevy in it....Standard 4 bbl carb......LOOOOOOONG BED .

We run this thing in the fields hauling hay all summer.....Never ever had any issues......
Old long wheelbase 3500 4x4 truck that's had 4 feet put in the frame.....LOOOOOOOOOOONG RIG..

Dual factory fuel tanks with the factory fuel switching.....Absolutely never had any issues.

This rig idles through the fields in granny low while the guys toss hay on.....Then run down the county back roads back to the barn......All hot weather and never any issues.......Always starts up easy and always ready to do it's job.....

Only time it failed to go.....A squirrel had chewed the fuel hose in half where it jumps from the frame to the pump....WE could smell that problem

The tried and true is my choice on this one.....Far cheaper to go with the 670 Holley 4bbl than the EFI as well...

I had one of the real early Analog 2 barrel Holley injection units back some years ago in a 1/2 ton 4x4 shorty that I bought at a garage sale for $25
350 HAD A BIG HOLE in the side...I dropped in a nice 455 OLDS and added the Holley Projection.....
It was fine.....But....I do not like the reliability of the diode boxes when help is far away and possibly not going to get to ya  before you freeze.....

I always go back to the HMMWV.....The mechanical injection was as bomb proof as possible....All the magic boxes the military uses to do things ...they used a mechanical device to make sure the boys can get the hell outta Dodge when the SHTF.....
This says a lot

HEAT KILLS ELECTRONICS.......Far more regularly than vapor lock issues...especially in a cold weather rig...

Anyway.......Too many failures with the diode boxes and I am very gun shy......One mouse or Squirrel.....Zoooop..game over....


Anyway....Just my opinion......and a lot of years in the game....


----------



## m1west

Its your project


----------



## Snowy Rivers

That is the truth......
I don't mean to be contrary....or argumentative for the sake of stirring the chit.....But I cut my teeth in the automotive game in the 60's and 70's and watched all the high tech gadgets come into being through the 80's....90's and 2000's

I have seen a lot of failures and just plain "What were they thinking" come and go.

I am real slow to jump on the band wagon....
Some stuff is fine.....But to me it seems that there is an extreme bent today to get a computer attached to everything.....

I have an uncle who's family run a couple big farms/ranches ...These guys have a buttload of huge equipment they use to handle the cultivation duties.....

In point they recently purchased a big articulated Tri track tractor  to handle some of their large tracts of ground..

I don't know what it cost.....Likely in the Half mil arena......This beast is a rolling computer that goes out and plows the dirt....Amongst other things.

They had only had it a few weeks and one morning WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY out in the field it suddenly refused to move past a crawl.....

The service light came on and all work stopped..

Took the dealer tech boys several days with their laptops hooked up to it to find out that they still did not know what was wrong...

Enter the factory tech boys made no better progress....

They finally had to limp the monster back to an access road and get it on a low boy and haul it to the shop.

Another week or so went by with lots of head scratching and still no answers......
Finally one of the local dealer techs spotted a mouse turd in the main control panel .....

Little beastie had gnawed a small wire and damaged the shielded cover on it.....(All CANBUS CONTROL)
Stinking mouse brought the big beast to it's knees.........

The high tech is just too vulnerable in many cases.......This instance cost the farm a lot of lost production.

There was not any danger to life and limb but one helluva lot of inconvenience.......

Out in the cold and wilds a failure could easily result in serious threat to people...

The big commercial groomers are all set up with canbus computer controls and such......But usually the operation has several machines and if one breaks down they send help to either fix it or drag it in......The operator and or passengers are simply inconvenienced and probably not in much danger....

A private cat is a different story.....

Why build a rig that is complex and not easily diagnosed and repaired on the trail.......

OLD SCHOOL worked really well....Yeah...some of the new stuff is waaaaaay cool, WHEN ITS WORKING...

But when it quits.....life sucks...BAD......

Yes...it is my project, and I am trying hard to avoid building in a bunch of issues that can be avoided,,,,,,,

The cost of the computer EFI is not exactly cheap......And it has that one built in issue that worries me.....Micro Electronics 

A simple Carburetor is about as bomb proof as it gets.....


I'm gonna error on the side of simple......

 IIRC an old GM engineer once said "Parts left out never fail"


----------



## m1west

Tuned up my Dodge truck yesterday. New wires, plugs ,rotor. Still ran like crap down low. Ditched the timing light and advanced the timing by ear. It came alive and actually runs good now, no popping, hesitation or lazy. The balancer is new but something must be wrong on the timing marks. When I put the motor in it was set with the advance plugged at 14 degrees BTDC and should have given me 34 degrees all in, obviously not true. I think will leave it on for now. The only other issue will be when I drive it up to the mountain. We will see.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

I had a SBC in a pickup that did that once.

I finally fashioned a hard stop to go into the #1 spk plug hole and bolted on a degree wheel...
Reworked the timing marks.....No more issues


----------



## m1west

Snowy Rivers said:


> I had a SBC in a pickup that did that once.
> 
> I finally fashioned a hard stop to go into the #1 spk plug hole and bolted on a degree wheel...
> Reworked the timing marks.....No more issues


What really sucks is its a fluid damper and cost me a good chunk of change.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Yes....that would suck

Any way to fashion a device to go into the #1 plug hole and reach the piston top.

Bring the piston up on the compression stroke until it just touches the tool.....Use a degree wheel on the damper.

Mark the spot where the thing stops....Reverse the crank back to a point where it stops.....Mark the location on the wheel..

1/2 way between the two locations is TDC...An accurate reading too......The mark the balancer using the degree wheel as a guide.....Good to go...
Real easy when the head is off....But I have done it with the heads on.

You might try using a video bore scope.....Crank the engine up on compression on #1 and watch until the piston reaches the top of the bore......There will be a few degrees that the piston does not move at TDC as the con rod rolls across....

Careful watching....With the degree wheel on the crank....As the piston reaches the top and no more movement can be seen....Roll the crank backwards until piston just starts to move back down...Reverse until the up motion stops....MARK THE WHEEL......Reverse the process and bring the piston back up and do the same procedure....Mark the wheel

There will be a few degrees between the two.....1/2 way between is the sweet spot...


The hard stop method is the most accurate IF YOU CAN DO IT.......But getting the marks within a couple degrees will get you pretty good....Then use the BUTT DYNO....And the ear....If the beast rattles with your boot on it....Too much timing..


----------



## m1west

Snowy Rivers said:


> Yes....that would suck
> 
> Any way to fashion a device to go into the #1 plug hole and reach the piston top.
> 
> Bring the piston up on the compression stroke until it just touches the tool.....Use a degree wheel on the damper.
> 
> Mark the spot where the thing stops....Reverse the crank back to a point where it stops.....Mark the location on the wheel..
> 
> 1/2 way between the two locations is TDC...An accurate reading too......The mark the balancer using the degree wheel as a guide.....Good to go...
> Real easy when the head is off....But I have done it with the heads on.
> 
> You might try using a video bore scope.....Crank the engine up on compression on #1 and watch until the piston reaches the top of the bore......There will be a few degrees that the piston does not move at TDC as the con rod rolls across....
> 
> Careful watching....With the degree wheel on the crank....As the piston reaches the top and no more movement can be seen....Roll the crank backwards until piston just starts to move back down...Reverse until the up motion stops....MARK THE WHEEL......Reverse the process and bring the piston back up and do the same procedure....Mark the wheel
> 
> There will be a few degrees between the two.....1/2 way between is the sweet spot...
> 
> 
> The hard stop method is the most accurate IF YOU CAN DO IT.......But getting the marks within a couple degrees will get you pretty good....Then use the BUTT DYNO....And the ear....If the beast rattles with your boot on it....Too much timing..


Thanks, I'm up on all that. Have built many racing engines, all with degreed cams. I think I will just leave it alone. Its running good now by ear, no rattle under load or kick back when starting hot and all the symptoms I was chasing are gone. I may go back and advance it till it rattles or kicks back while hot then back it off until it doesn't. That will give me all the advance it will take. When we were kids on the farm playing with cars that how we did it to get every ounce of power out of the old motors in our beaters. Im just sad that I didn't figure it out sooner. Im sure my gas milage has also improved as well. I have driven cars before with retarted timing and they all ran hot and lazy but never had one lean pop the carburetor or run on when shut off. Thats why I was chasing the fuel system and only tried advancing the timing because I was tuning it up and thought I would give it a try to see  what would happen. What happened is it fixed everything.


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## Snowy Rivers

Copy.
Yes.....What we did when we were kids....Yeah buddy

My first car was a 1958 DKW.
Little 3 cyl 2 stroke....4 speed on the column.....Distant relative to the Audi ......

Great little car


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## m1west

Snowy Rivers said:


> Copy.
> Yes.....What we did when we were kids....Yeah buddy
> 
> My first car was a 1958 DKW.
> Little 3 cyl 2 stroke....4 speed on the column.....Distant relative to the Audi ......
> 
> Great little car


Ive never herd of that car, I came from Michigan and in the 1970's it was all American over there. Made in Germany?


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## m1west

We drifted quite a bit off the snow cat, any update on your progress. The drift discussion on EFI did lead to me figuring out the issue with my truck, and now agree you can get by with a carb. on your cat. I would jet it for the elevation you are going to mostly run at, and use the return filter you talked about also routing your fuel line away from anything remotely hot. Having your engine in a compartment outside the cab is also a good thing. Go with a big aluminum radiator oversized for the task will also be a good thing, burning rpm and going slow under load makes a lot of heat. You get the engine and transmission done by spring, you may get it going for next winter.


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## Snowy Rivers

Ah well.....So we hijacked the thread....no biggy.....

Yes.DKW (Deek) were German mfg....

Slow going now since the weather has gone crappy.

The S10 bodies are above the 2100 chassis and there is loads of room for the air to flow back under the cabins.
The area up front where the radiator mounts is limited.....24" wide x 19" high radiator will fit
I can get a nice radiator fit the spot.......Two rows of 1-1/8" tubes.
Mfg says it will be plenty to cool the beast....
The radiator mounts in the same spot as the original 2100 radiator did.  BUT IT WAS A DOWN FLOW
Aluminum cross flow with a shroud.....Going to use the S10 Blazer fan with a fresh clutch....S10 serp type water pump
(Same pump used on the 350 engine)

Very easy to mount the fuel lines away from the exhaust as that stuff is in the belly of the chassis..
The ledge along the top of the 2100 chassis is perfect for mounting the fuel lines.....Good distance from the heat..Slip the lines in some heat reflective sleeve.... or ????

Mixing and matching of parts gets interesting.

I was out to the machine shop yesterday to pay the fella for the work that's done on the heads so far.

I decided to go with a roller cam...The lowest lift Roller is .503" lift

We need to cut the valve guides down on the Vortec heads to get enough room under the spring retainer at full lift.

The new springs have loads of room...No coil bind....Todd found a set of positive type valve seals that will work with the tool he has (I did not want to buy tooling) so we make another bastard child.

This trip was my first chance to see the heads after the machine work was done (Almost done) Valves look new, heads do not need surfacing......Very nice  parts.......We got lucky with buying that complete Vortec engine......

Todd also drilled the steam holes in the heads to match the 400 block holes....He also added the water bypass port to the RH head so the coolant flow matches the GEN 1 type.....

The Vortec heads do not have a coolant bypass....The Vortecs use an extra hose plumbed into the intake manifold and connected to the water pump.

Since I want to use the early Serp drive (1990) water pump that fits the 400 it just made sense to add the hole in the head to match...

Only the 400 sbc had the steam holes in the deck/heads ...400 has Siamese cylinder bores in order to get the 4.125" (Now 4.155") bore size....The issue is/was the area at the top of the cylinder walls would form steam pockets that could not go anywhere.....The holes allow coolant to flow up into the heads and keep steam pockets from forming......

Guys have tried to use better flowing 350 heads on these blocks over the years without drilling the holes.....IT ENDS POORLY....AND A LOT OF SMACK HAS BEEN CALLED ON THE 400 BECAUSE OF IT....

Gotta have steam holes...then life is good.

My one concern is keeping the carb inlet air warm enough to keep from icing up the carb....Vortec intakes do not have heat passages like the carbureted intakes.........

I think the idea of an air box behind the engine with an inlet down over the head pipe to pick up warm air and then plumb that to the air cleaner...........
Air does not need to be HOT just 50-70 F inlet should be sweet.....
I still have not picked an intake manifold as yet......

There are some Mercruiser cast iron ones available......These have a carb mount pad that is on an angle and that is not good.....Mercruiser outdrives sit on a fair slope and the carb pad are cut to keep the carb flat......

I may get one and make an aluminum adapter plate and then toss the manifold in the mill and cut things flat.

Sitting the manifold on the ends where it sits in the ends of the valleys would allow getting the carb base adapter parallel with the real world....The engine sits in the cat with the main line parallel to the body....NO ANGLE.....

The cast iron manifold will be far less likely to warp......The Vortec intakes use 8 bolts and a straight up/down position on the bolts ...unlike the older 12 bolts used on Gen 1 engines....The Gen 1 also use bolts that are 90 degrees to the intake port surface of the head...

The Mercruiser intake may be the ticket..........

A 1-1/2" aluminum spacer cut to solve the angle issue.....
Still thinking about this ....

THE PIX
Looking from the rear....Loads of air space under the bodies.
From the front....Front clip goes back on with a tilt forward mod.....Plenty of room under the bodies for air flow.


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