# 1972 Aktiv ST4 "Snow Trac"



## Melensdad

Hey guys, here are photos of my partially restored Snow Trac. The interior seat and back cushions are missing from the inside of the cabin (and have not even been made yet). The fuel tank is completly removed, it normally sits just inside the cabin at the rear with a fill pipe sticking out the rear of the cabin, I have the fuel tank at the body shop getting primed now. On some of the close up pictures you will notice grass on the tracks/running gear, it works on the grass too. 

I am planning on building onto the dash to install a Blaupunkt stereo, 6 speakers, Magellin color GPS unit and a Delphi SkyFi2 XM radio. There will also be a chrome fan installed in the cab so it is more comfortable in the summer sun, and an electric heater installed to warm up the interior for winter use. I don't want to cut into the factory dash and cut up the original metalwork, so I'll be adding a lower extention to the dash and adding the accessories to that new lower area. I really just don't have time to work on this thing right now so I'm not sure when I will get around to adding the extras. I have all the parts to do the installs, just don't have the time. I am thinking of taking a few vacation days from work just to get started on all of it.

The engine & engine compartment will be fixed up a bit. A H.O. alternator is being added, new coil, new spark plug wires, new pulleys, new air filter housing, etc are all due to be added/updated in early November. The local High School auto shop is chomping their teeth to get their hands on this thing so they will be doing the engine work for free with me supplying the parts (already have the parts).


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## Melensdad

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

Here is a detail of the leading edge of one of the tracks. The tracks are made of 3 strips of heavy reinforced rubber that are held together by the metal cleats. The cleats are about 1" deep, 1" wide, and 17" across. I've been talking with a guy in New York who build all stainless steel cleats, I may have his shop make stainless cleats for mine too. You can see mine are rusted and there is no real way I can figure out how to prevent that.








This is Misha, she is my Japanese Akita and while she loves the snow, she is very confused by the Snow Trac!


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## Melensdad

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

The drive mechanism is connected to the front sprocket at the top/front of the track.







Below is a shot of the track from under the Snow Trac.


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## Melensdad

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*


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## Melensdad

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

I should probably point out that this is an older restoration that I purchased in parts. Basically I reassembled it as it was just becuase I wanted to use it. I really need to take it back apart and restore some of the warn parts. Obviously this is not designed to win the Pebble Beach auto show, this is a toy to be used and mechanically it is in very good condition as it sits except the parking brake system is disconnected. I intend to "Rhino Line" the floor and the underside of the unit. I am not sure if I will leave it in the red/orange stock paint. From my research, there are 3 primary colors for these vehicles. Mine is a civilian paint scheme. The English Commando units that used these had 2 paint schemes, one was a solid dark green, the other is a dark grey/white snow camo pattern (as seen in my avatar). Changing the paint is a low priority for me.

Here is the drivers area:


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## Melensdad

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

Here is a rear view. The hole in the body work to the left side of the door is where the fuel filler pipe/cap belong. The fuel tank should be ready to install next week.


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## Big Dog

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

Bob,

Neat! Can I have a ride? That is going to be fun! Get much out of your helper?


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## DaveNay

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*



			
				B_Skurka said:
			
		

> You can see mine are rusted and there is no real way I can figure out how to prevent that.



The rust on the tracks is easy to prevent!  Use the machine daily, and they won't get rusty!


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## Melensdad

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*



			
				DaveNay said:
			
		

> The rust on the tracks is easy to prevent!  Use the machine daily, and they won't get rusty!




Easy to say, hard to do.  But the guy in New York who had stainless cleats made said they were a great addition.  He paid $2400 for a full set of them, with laser cut holes.  I'm leaning on switching to the stainless cleats.  I'm also looking to possibly install some teflon or nylon inserts into every-other cleat to allow it to run on the road without wearing down the cleats.  It won't damage the road to run it on the road because it is very light weight, but it really wears the cleats down when it is run on asphalt.




 BigDog, that photo of my helper shows you just how helpful she is (she is outside the door).  She's a great dog, sweet to the family but protective of the home/property, but when the tools come out she tends to run the other direction.  Although she does love to ride in the car, she is not so sure about riding in the Snow Trac.


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## DaveNay

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*



			
				B_Skurka said:
			
		

> I'm also looking to possibly install some teflon or nylon inserts into every-other cleat to allow it to run on the road without wearing down the cleats. It won't damage the road to run it on the road because it is very light weight, but it really wears the cleats down when it is run on asphalt.



Hmmm...I'm pretty sure that nylon or teflon will wear down faster than the stainless steel.  I would think you need something _harder_ than the SS on every other cleat.  Perhaps something like 1045 steel?  You could chrome plate them (industrial hard chrome, not copper-nickel-chrome decorative stuff) and that will eliminate the rusting, and provide an additional case hardening protection.  If you get a nice thick hard chrome coating (.005" - .010") It will polish up nicely with a little effort.


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## Melensdad

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*



			
				DaveNay said:
			
		

> Hmmm...I'm pretty sure that nylon or teflon will wear down faster than the stainless steel.




I probably should have explained the purpose a little better.  My intent is that the inserts would be used to save the cleats from wearing down on pavement, but would also be 'friendly' to concrete drives and would not scratch them.  

The inserts would essentially be considered as disposable inserts used to protect the metal cleats and to protect concrete from being scratched too.

I've been asked to participate in some parades and the public works officials are not thrilled with the idea of having a tacked vehicle on their main street.  This this is way too light to damage any roadway, it puts down very little pressure per square foot, but it would be easier to install some nylon inserts than it is to explain things to some of these guys.


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## DaveNay

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*



			
				B_Skurka said:
			
		

> The inserts would essentially be considered as disposable inserts used to protect the metal cleats and to protect concrete from being scratched too.



Gotcha.


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## Doc

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

That looks so cool Bob! Very nice paint job on it. The one in your avatar looks like it's white and that looks good, but now I figure that is snow on it. 

What were these things used for when sold new? They have a European look to them. Who makes them and what motor is in them?

Thanks!!


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## Big Dog

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

Swedish I believe with a 1600cc Volkswagen engine.


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## Melensdad

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*



			
				Doc said:
			
		

> That looks so cool Bob! Very nice paint job on it. The one in your avatar looks like it's white and that looks good, but now I figure that is snow on it.
> 
> What were these things used for when sold new?   They have a europian look to them.  Who makes them and what motor is in them?
> 
> Thanks!!




Big Dog got it right, Aktiv Fischer is a Swedish company.  The VW engine is a 1600 cc 4 cylinder boxer configuration engine.

My avatar photo shows a British Commando snow-camo unit.

From my research I found the following uses.  
- Snow trail groomer for ski resorts.  
- Snow trail groomer for snowmobile trails.  [still in use for that]
- Personal transportation for folks who live in severe northern climates (Norway, Sweden, Finland, Canada, Japan). [still in use for that]
- Estates in the Scottish Highlands were not complete without one, and in the 70's if you owned a large Scottish estate you absolutely HAD to have one for the winter! Blame peer pressure for that. [still in use for that]
- The British Commandos used them as military rescue and border patrol vehicles.  
- NATO used them as border patrol vehicles.  
- Utility companies in Canada used them to access towers.  
- Driven by Jack Nicholson in the Steven King movie "The Shining"
- I documented one that went to Antartica on an expedition.

For the most part, the ones I know of still in use are basically personal recreation vehicles, but many in northern climates are still used as primary transportation in severe northern climates during the winter months.




Below is a larger photo of the British 'Snow Camo' unit that I use for my Avatar.


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## Doc

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

Thanks for the info, Bob and Big Dog.  I would've thought it needed a bigger engine than that ....shows what I know.  They sure look like fun.  What a cool restoration project.  And in the Chicago area you should get enough snow to have plenty of fun once yours is ready.


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## Melensdad

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*



			
				Doc said:
			
		

> Thanks for the info, Bob and Big Dog. I would've thought it needed a bigger engine than that ....shows what I know. They sure look like fun. What a cool restoration project. And in the Chicago area you should get enough snow to have plenty of fun once yours is ready.



These things are not very fast, roughly 20mph. I was able to find out that there are 2 final drive gears that were available. I don't know which one I have. The slower speed unit has a top speed about 20 and the higher speed unit ran up around 25mph. Speed was less important than climbing ability. These things are supposed to be able to climb up slopes that are difficult to climb by foot.

Here is a photo of another one that has the military paint scheme.  This one is at the REME Museum in England.





Here is one that was outfitted as a Snow Rescue vehicle, I presume this was not painted or outfitted this way at the factory but was done after the fact.


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## Melensdad

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

By the way, the cab is optional. So if you want a really "sporty" Snow Trac, you can get the open top version show in this Norwegian brochure.

The smaller image is an advertisement from 1957 (Norway).


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## Melensdad

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

There was also a more commercial type unit designed more for grooming purposes.  It had either a short cab or a long cab but it had wider tracks.


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## DaveNay

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*



			
				B_Skurka said:
			
		

> These things are not very fast, roughly 20mph.



Well, that just means that when the Borman, Indiana Toll and I-65 are all jammed with four million idiots and one tenth of an inch of snow, you will be the fastest thing out there!

And whoooo....if there is actually snow, you could probably go out and rescue all those people stuck, and charge them $10 each.


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## Melensdad

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

Dave, you sure do know the BOREman expressway pretty well.  Let me guess, you've been stuck there a few times?  I do everything I can to avoid that road but being the major expressway here it is tough to avoid.  Heck 20mph is pretty fast on a nice sunny day during rush hour.


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## Melensdad

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

You will notice in one of these photos the Snow Trac is being used to pull a hay wagon on grass, so it was used for more than just winter fun.


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## ronjhall

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

Bob
You need to bring the Snow Track up here next winter. What a great way to get out on Lake St. Clair perch fishing.


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## Melensdad

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*



			
				ronjhall said:
			
		

> Bob
> You need to bring the Snow Track up here next winter. What a great way to get out on Lake St. Clair perch fishing.




Ron, why wait to NEXT winter when we have THIS winter coming up pretty quick!!!

I am hoping to haul it around a bit this winter, probably into lower Wisconsin and into Michigan too.  I may just show up at your door one day with a crazy red toy on the back of a trailer!


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## Mith

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

There was a show on TV here a while ago where they restored one fo those babes. Did a crap job of it but thats no the point.
If ya ever wanna bring it back to Europe I have a nice spot here in the dry for it. What an awesome toy, er, tool  The fun you could have with that, you could go anywhere, even better, get a 3ph and pto on the back and mow with it 
I want one , if ya ever selling it put in my bid with all the other 3000 you are likely to recieve


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## Melensdad

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*



			
				Mith said:
			
		

> There was a show on TV here a while ago where they restored one fo those babes. Did a crap job of it but thats no the point.
> If ya ever wanna bring it back to Europe I have a nice spot here in the dry for it. What an awesome toy, er, tool  The fun you could have with that, you could go anywhere, even better, get a 3ph and pto on the back and mow with it
> I want one , if ya ever selling it put in my bid with all the other 3000 you are likely to recieve




That is the exact one I bought!!!

*My Snow Trac is a British TV Star (or starlet?) from the TV show Salvage Squad.*

You are totally correct they did a crap job of it, but it is what it is. On the TV shows they just have to make it look good enough for the camera but not that good if you inspect it. Actually to say that they did a "crap job of it" is to pay them a pretty high compliment!!! The guy they restored it for eventually sold it to me after playing with it for a while. His name was also Bob, and he & his girlfriend ran it up a Scottish mountain for the TV show. They were great people to deal with and we had a lot of fun trading emails and information. When it arrived it was actually in better shape than I expected, albeit with paint runs and exposed caulking. A TV restoration is basically a slap together job, which is why it needs to be redone properly. It is mechanically pretty sound, it lacks a lot of fit and finish and detail work. But its still a load of fun! 

Here is a link to the Channel 4 Salvage Squad web site where it talks about my Snow Trac.  http://www.channel4.com/science/microsites/S/salvage_squad/machines/snow_trac/index.html

You will notice a picture on the Salvage Squad site, it is one I had posted on TBN for a while, but under it I had posted a disclaimer that the unit I purchased was put together from that base unit.


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## Mith

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

Even more awesome, a TV star Snow trac!
If you dont mind me asking what did you pay for it?
Hey I guess atleast they sorted the running gear for you, from the view of your average viewer the work they do looks good though you can see that alot of the stuff they do is clearly not right. At the end of the day the main presenter (Suggs) is a singer and the mechanics are presenters 
You ought to try to sell the rest of the story to the BBC when its all done, 'Salvage Squad revisited' 
Nice one!


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## Melensdad

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

In the condition I bought it, it was rough but running and the price was about US$6000.

I've seen them in very nice condition as high as US$19,000.00, but I don't know that there were any buyers at that price. The price range for running units when I was shopping last year was running from roughly $6000 to $12,000 depending on location and condition. I'd say I got a decent price on a decent unit.

As for TV shows that put together cars, every once in a while I catch a show here called "Monster Garage" and I sort of think that they build their vehicles to be used 2 or 3 times and then sent in for repairs. Salvage Squad did a better job than that, but much of the job appears to be assembly of rusty parts. I've started to repair some of that bit by bit. I'll eventually get it all done.


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## Melensdad

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

*PROGRESS UPDATE:* 

I picked up the gas tank from the body shop on Thursday. They patched some holes and pressure tested it (and lost my gas cap!). 

Today I got up early and took the gas tank over to my shop and sprayed a nice coat of white paint over the grey primer. In a few days I will overlay the white paint with some temporary vinyl decals that spell out "PETROL" on the side of the tank. Then the entire tank will get a coat of bright red paint over the entire surface. A few days after that I will remove the vinyl decals and I'll be left with a red surface with white lettering.

I also have to figure out how to properly hook up the tank. There is an electrical connection terminal on the top of the tank??? I'm guessing it is to discharge _static electricity_ to prevent an explosion? I really have no clue. I think it will take some serious digging around to figure out what to with that. 

The other minor problem is the fuel line itself. It is just a rubber hose. The tank has a threaded end on it, the hose does not. So I'm going to have to find an end piece that will attach to the hose and then screw it onto the tank connector.


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## bczoom

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

Bob,

Normally, the wire that connects to the top of the tank is for the fuel gauge sending unit.

Is the threaded portion the right size to slide the rubber hose over it?  If so, why not just slide it on and secure with a hose clamp?


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## Melensdad

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*



			
				bczoom said:
			
		

> Bob,
> 
> Normally, the wire that connects to the top of the tank is for the fuel gauge sending unit.



Thanks for proving once again that I know nearly nothing about car-type vehicles and how they are wired and that this restoration is clearly over my head and that I should probably stick to playing with antique tractors 




			
				bczoom said:
			
		

> Is the threaded portion the right size to slide the rubber hose over it? If so, why not just slide it on and secure with a hose clamp?



Just based on simple eye-ball examination and bad memory recollection, I'd say the I.D. of the hose is smaller than the O.D. of the threaded portion by a pretty good margin. I've actually never had the fuel tank inside the Snow Trac yet other than when I unpacked all the parts that were sitting in boxes on the cabin floor. So that is one of those things that I will have to actually go and measure. It might be easier to simply pull the fuel line and replace it with a new one. The rubber part of the fuel line only runs from the fuel filter, which is adjacent to the drivers seat, back about 4' to the fuel tank.


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## bczoom

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

You may need a fitting on the tank side but I would stick with rubber fuel line.  Metal is a real PITA both to install and maintain.


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## johnday

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*



			
				B_Skurka said:
			
		

> Ron, why wait to NEXT winter when we have THIS winter coming up pretty quick!!!
> 
> I am hoping to haul it around a bit this winter, probably into lower Wisconsin and into Michigan too. I may just show up at your door one day with a crazy red toy on the back of a trailer!


Ron and Bob, don't forget me!!!!!!


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## OkeeDon

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

You may already know this from your tractor restorations, but if you are planning to restore anything, or build a race car, or do much fabrication of any sort, you need to get familiar with McMaster-Carr

They'll have whatever fittings you need.


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## Melensdad

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*



			
				OkeeDon said:
			
		

> if you are planning to restore anything, or build a race car, or do much fabrication of any sort, you need to get familiar with McMaster-Carr



Thanks Don!  I've always been able to get the Oliver parts I need through the Hart-Parr/Oliver's Collectors Association contacts in the back of the magazines, or through referrals.  But this Snow Trac is obviously a totally different animal and I'm not really a car restoration guy so McMaster-Carr is new to me.  But after glancing at their site for a few minutes I suspect they will have exactly what I need.


This afternoon I took some fine steel wool to the gas tank to polish it up for the next coat of paint.  I have the vinyl P E T R O L stickers at my office or I would apply them tomorrow and hit the tank with the first coat of red paint.  But it will be at least Monday before I get to that.


Brian . . . upon closer inspection, I believe that you are correct about the fuel sending unit leads on the top of the tank.  


The next step is to figure out how to mount this thing.  I have the orignal mounting straps in a box with other parts, but I'm going to figure out where they actually mount to.  The mounts that the straps attach to are non-existant, so I may be making those if they are simple enough for me to do (or having them made if they look complicated).


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## bczoom

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

Bob,

Like McMaster-Carr, get familiar with Austin Hardware. (austinhardware.com).
Prepare early and order their catalog.  Their site has an incredible amount of hardware that's hard to find but their catalog (at almost 900 pages) has more hardware related items than I knew even existed.  I keep the catalog handy for many things.

Anyway, on the snow track... For the fuel tank, you're saying there's no place to mount it???
You have the tank and the straps.  Is there a rubber strap or other insulator on the steel strap to insulate the tank from the mount/frame?  I can't speak for the trac, but on most vehicles, the tank mounting completely insulates the tank from the mounting.  This is the tank itself as well as all the way up the filler tube.  Absolutely no metal-on-metal.  This is to avoid abrasion and electric and I would strongly recommend you have/get it.

On the wire, if the top of your tank has a round cap, probably 2-3" diameter with a single electric pole coming out, that is the fuel gauge sending unit.


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## Melensdad

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

There is a round cap, about 3" diameter, 2 electric poles coming out.

As for the straps, both are metal, no rubber insulators.  I had intended to put rubber insulators between the straps and the tank, I figured I would cut a truck mud flap into strips?


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## bczoom

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

Electrically, you've described the fuel probe for the gauge.  While you have the tank out, unless it's new, do a quick electric test on it.
Hopefully you have a book but basically you need to put an ohmmeter across the contacts.  Measure the resistance while adjusting the float inside the tank.  If you can't get a screwdriver or something to adjust the float, you can fill with water and then drain.  There should be a gradual resistance change when the level changes.  I have absolutely no idea what it would be for your vehicle but do recall a range of 20-170 ohms for other vehicles.

A truck mud flap would work well.  If the straps are 2" or so, you may be able to find rubber insulators that are made for this purpose.  They have a ridge that flaps over the strap to hold them in place.


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## Melensdad

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

Well I screwed up and now I am behind schedule.  

I primed the gas tank to get it ready for paint and then for an install into the Snow Trac. Then I sprayed it white as a base over the primer. Then I sprayed it red over the white. However, I _unintenionally _mixed latex and enamel and now I need so sand all the paint back off because it blistered. So basically I'm screwed, I have a full evening of work to get back to where I was a few days ago.


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## Doc

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

I hate when that happens!   
No easy way to catch back up, but I'd wager you will not make that mistake again.
Good luck getting back on track!


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## bczoom

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

Bob,
That stinks...
Are you using chemicals or sanding to remove the paint?  I found MEK normally works well when I screw up like that.



			
				Doc said:
			
		

> Good luck getting back on track!


Doc - pun intended?


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## Melensdad

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*



			
				bczoom said:
			
		

> Bob,
> That stinks...
> Are you using chemicals or sanding to remove the paint?  I found MEK normally works well when I screw up like that.
> 
> 
> Doc - pun intended?




I'm old fashioned, I'm using STEEL WOOL pads ​


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## bczoom

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

Bob,

I really didn't want to know about your famine protection.  So, chemicals or sandblasting?

EDIT - Oh, I get it now... You are talking about paint removal...  My bad.


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## Av8r3400

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

Bob--  I've got 80 acres in Northern Wisconsin to play on with your rig if I can come along too!!


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## Melensdad

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*



			
				Av8r_2230 said:
			
		

> Bob--  I've got 80 acres in Northern Wisconsin to play on with your rig if I can come along too!!




My goal is to get it up to Wisconisn this winter, how far north is your property???


BTW, today I will be re-priming and maybe even starting to re-paint the gas tank.  I can't believe I screwed it up by mixing paint types and having it blister.  But I've done it before and kicked myself for being an idiot, so I guess I didn't learn the first time   Today I purchased all new primer and paint and it is all the same type so I should be safe to begin work as soon as I finish stripping off the old stuff.


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## Av8r3400

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

30 miles north of Wausau...


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## kensfarm

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

Bob.. where do we go to pick up a couple snow bunnies for the trip?


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## Melensdad

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

Are you trying to imply that the lovely Mrs_B is not 'snow bunny' quality????     Them would be fightin' words. 

As the famous Al Bundy from the TV show Married With Children used to say:  _Why go out for milk when you have a cow at home?   _


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## kensfarm

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

Bob..  I'm thinking like a bachler this week.. fiance's gone for 10 days.. comes home for a couple days.. then leaves again for 2 more weeks.  It has nothing to do w/ the lovely Mrs Bob..  but more like picking up those lovely snow shoveling babes..  besides.. they have shovels if we get stuck!


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## bczoom

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*



			
				kensfarm said:
			
		

> but more like picking up those lovely snow shoveling babes..  besides.. they have shovels if we get stuck!


Nuff said...


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## Melensdad

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

OK back to serious talk about the Snow Trac.  

I finally got the bad paint sanded off with steel wool.  Re-primed it.  Sanded it.  Primed again.  Sanded again.  Then sprayed down the coating of white paint.  So today I got myself back to where I was about a week ago!  And the results are not as good.  But they are pretty darn good, and for a toy that is plenty good enough.  Saturday I'll get out there and lay on the PETROL decals and then spray it with red paint.  After it dries it will be ready to install (which is still something I have not figured out quite how to do).

I think it will end up being temporarily installed just so I can get it to the High School for them to tune it up.  I think they want to play with it for about a week.  It was scheduled to go in next week, but it looks more likely that it will go in to the school about 10 days from now.


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## Melensdad

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

Crap Crap Crap CRAP 

Well the gas tank is all painted, it is a nice red color, with white lettering that came out perfectly.  That is all the good news I have!

I went to fit the tank in.  No go.  The fuel filler tube is too tall to slide under the seat.  So I start to disassemble the seat and get enough play to slide the tank under the seat, that also includes having to take out the driver's seat which is attached to the rear seat, and it includes taking off the hand rail for the passengers.  Whew, the tank slides under the seat!  

Now the filler tube won't fit through the hole in the back wall of the Snow Trac.  

One thing I learned in college is that there is ALWAYS another way.  If the tube won't slide in place, then maybe I can rotate it into place?  Well the door frame is in the way.  Off comes the door frame, and finally the tank slides right into place where it belongs!!!  YEA!!!  

So I figure I'm doing well (actually it took 2 hours to get to this point) so I figure I'll press my luck and attach the fuel line.  NO CHANCE.  The line I.D. is much smaller than the O.D. of fuel tank connector.  I don't have any fittings that will work so I gave up for the day.  Nuts and bolts and washers scattered all over the Snow Trac's floor because I don't want to actually put all this stuff together in case I need to slide it back out to attach the fitting?  So I've given up.  

Maybe tomorrow I'll measure the fittings?  Maybe not.


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## bczoom

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

Sounds like you're having fun...  Was this thing made by AMC???
What happened to using rubber fuel line?


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## Melensdad

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*



			
				bczoom said:
			
		

> What happened to using rubber fuel line?




I was sort of hoping to use the rubber fuel line and slip it over the fitting on the gas tank and then clamp it into place.  I knew it was a long shot, but I wanted to try it to see if it might be possible.  

The plan now will be to install a fitting onto the rubber line that has a threaded coupler that will match up with the threaded fitting on the tank.  Of course that leads to a delay as I will have to source out a fitting that will work, order it, etc.  I may also replace the rubber fuel line with a new rubber line, but that will be decided after I do some inspecting of the line, etc.

In the mean time I now have the drivers seat undone so I will probably do some work on that. The upholstery is in good shape but the metal back needs to be repainted so I'll very likely take up that mini-project.  

I'm seriously thinking of spraying in an epoxy floor like a RhinoLiner.  I did a pick up liner this past summer as a test and really liked the results.  I have enough light grey Xtreme-Liner epoxy to do the inside of the Snow Trac, as well as to undercoat it.  So I may end up masking off everything inside the cabin that shouldn't get an epoxy finish and go at it with the spray gun.


----------



## TOMLESCOEQUIP

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

"The VW engine is a 1600 cc 4 cylinder boxer configuration engine."       Bob...........could you use any extra engine rebuild kits ?  I can let you have 'em at a good price !


----------



## Melensdad

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

Tom, thanks for kicking me while I am down!


----------



## Melensdad

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

*A MIRACLE HAPPENED!!!

*I actually dug through the 'spare parts bin' at work looking for a fitting that would connect the Snow Trac fuel tank to the fuel line.

In the back of one of the bins was a stainless steel fitting that I had machined (I actually had 250 of them machined a couple years ago) for a KARMA brand cappuccino machine. The factory installed plastic fittings but the high heat of the machine would cause them to fail, they would leak on a circuit board and I'd end up buying new machines.    So just because I don't like planned obselescene (SP?) I had new fittings made out of stainless steel.     Well one of those fittings was apparently left over.  

It fit my Snow Trac fuel tank PERFECTLY.


----------



## TOMLESCOEQUIP

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

Will VW powered sno-tracks run on cappuccino ??


----------



## Melensdad

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

Tom, put enough caffeine into just about anything and it will run like the energizer bunny.


----------



## Melensdad

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

Here is the repaired, but otherwise original, fuel tank for the Snow Trac in its nearly final resting place. This is just a 'test fit' to make sure I could figure out how to get it in there. The door frame had to be removed and the seat had to be unbolted to wedge it into place. In the photo the door frame is in place (but only with one bolt) for illustration purposes. The support on the far end of the seat is also loose and the seat frame is simply resting on the support upright.

Now that I know how to get it in there, I'll be taking it back out. The rubber mat is being stripped off the floor, the entire inside will be taped off except the floor, and the floor will get a coating of light grey colored X-Treme Liner (it is a 2 part epoxy truck bed liner much like RhinoLiner or LineX). It should provide a good non-slip surface, but more importantly it will protect the wood floor from melting snow.

I need a new spray gun to tackle the project, so there will be no more progress until the spray gun arrives (I ordered 2 from Harbor Freight, at $6.99 each I consider them "throw aways" because it takes about $10 worth of mineral spirits to clean a gun after using a 2-part epoxy!)

I am also going to spray the underside of the floor with the same 2 part epoxy, only instead of using light grey color I will be using black under the Snow Trac to match the black paint that is on the frame under the floor.

BTW, you can see the rubber hose that is the fuel line above the seat frame. On the end of the hose is the 'Cappuccino Machine' stainless fitting that I installed. Amazing that a fancy coffee maker and a Snow Trac can share some parts, but hey, it works so I'm happy!


----------



## Doc

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

Looks GREAT Bob.  Nice Job!!!


----------



## Melensdad

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

A bit more progress to report on, but no more photos at this point.

There is a bench seat over the fuel tank, and another bench seat on the opposite side of the cabin. Last night I cut out a plywood base for a new seat pad that will be installed over the top of the metal frame.  I also picked up the seat foam and cut that to shape to fit the wooden base piece.  When Snow Tracs came from the factory they had cushioned seat pads installed over the steel frame, so I am simply remaking those seats. 

Of course the factory upholstry was a black vinyl and mine is a black Hawaiian barkcloth with palm trees and flamingos   Even the lovely Mrs_B has doubts about me now.


----------



## Melensdad

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

*A little more progress to report:

*The driver's seat was removed when I went to test fit the gas tank.  The upholstry of the drivers seat is actually original and in pretty darn good condition.  So I am going to keep the original black vinyl seat for the driver.  I did sand, prime, and then sand again the seat back and mounting brackets.  

I am undecided on the final finish for the seat back and frame/mounting bracket.  

It would be easy enough to paint the seat back grey, as that would be the original color.

It would be easy enough to paint the frame/mounting bracket orange, as that would be the original color.

But from the looks of them they seem to both take a beating from things that have scratched them up over the years so it might be more logical to spray them with the 2 part epoxy that I will be using on the floor?  

Or perhaps to spray the seat back with the light grey 2 part epoxy and re-paint the mounting bracket & frame orange.  It would look much more original if I did the frame in orange, and seat back in grey and would still offer the protection of the 2-part epoxy to the seat back which is pretty beaten up.  

I also finished the bench seat cushion frames, which were made out of plywood.  It is up to the lovely Mrs_B to sew up the seat cushions.  After the bottom cushions are made up, then I will work on the seat backs.  I have the foam for the seat backs but I'm just not quite sure what I want to do with the shape.


----------



## Melensdad

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

*UPDATE :  None of this is good news. . . *


Saturday morning I got about to mixing the epoxy bedliner spray that I was going to use as the new floor in the Snow Trac.

I had the epoxy cans inside my house, so they were at room temperature.
Each can was clearly labeled.
I had 2 full 'kits' of spray, so I had 2 cans of everything.

I turned the heater on in the garage/shop and warmed it up for about an hour before I took that epoxy out to mix it.  I would guess the shop temperature was roughly 60 to 65 degrees.

I went about the process of mixing.  I had my two kits separated so I would not mix up anything I shouldn't mix.  This stuff has a 20 minute working time and everything must be in place long before you get started.  So everything was set, I had my respirator on, my air gun running, face mask, etc.  Everything was covered with tarps, taped off, etc.  

I mix PART A with PART B and the stuff solidified almost instantly!!!  Never did that before.  (I've used this exact stuff before so I've got experience with the process, the brand, etc.)  It set up so fast that thinner wouldn't thin it, the wooden paint stir stick got stuck in it and broke in half!  YIKES.

I doubled checked all the cans.  Yes, I did mix the correct stuff.

OK, not to panic, I have another kit just in case.  

Clean out the bucket and start over.  Everything is going well.  I spray and all looks very good.  So I leave the garage/shop and go off about my daily business.  I come back and find that it is not hardening.  HUH?

OK, I figure the temps must have something to do with it?  It doesn't make sense, but I figure I'll turn the heater back on.  So I run the heater all day.  Still is not hard.  Ditto Sunday.  

Now I am just praying.  If this stuff doesn't set up, then I have just sprayed a gallong of sticky goo into the Snow Trac that will have to be scraped out with a putty knife.  And that will be a big nasty ugly mess as well as very time consuming.  My plan was to put the gas tank back in Sunday.  Reinstall the driver's seat.  And take it out for a spin!!!  We have SNOW.  

And yes, I mixed the activator with the base.  At least that is what the cans said I mixed.  And since they are different sizes and shapes, it is really hard to screw that up.  So I am sure I didn't screw it up.

I'm not worried about getting my money back.  I'm not worried about getting replacement epoxy.  What I am worried about is fixing this.  My hope is the activator will eventually work and it will harden off.  Worst case is not pretty because scraping all this out will put me weeks behind, just as the season is starting!

BTW, I went with a medium grey color and it sure looks good.


----------



## bczoom

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

Ouch!!!!

Did/can you call the mfgr to get any insight as to why it's not hardening?

As a backup, you may want to also inquire as to what the removal process is if the stuff doesn't harden.  MEK?  Acetone?


----------



## Melensdad

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

Oh yea, I am thrilled with the prospect of cleaning up this mess.  I've not inquired yet.  It seems like the first batch had triple strength activator to get it to set up instantly, the second batch seems to have 1/10th strength activator.  I'm pretty much screwed if it doesn't set up!!!


----------



## OkeeDon

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

Try a heat lamp.  Try it in an unobtrusive area in case it makes the stuff shrivel or something.  If the external heat does make it cure, it likely won't cure it evenly, and there may be color variations, etc.  But, if you can get it to harden, at least you could re-coat it a lot easier than cleaning it out.  The heat lamp trick works on polyester resin; don't know what it will do to your stuff.  I learned about the trick years ago when I had an entire layer of a boat laid up and discovered we had forgotten to mix hardener with the resin...


----------



## Melensdad

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

Don
Will a propane torpedo heater work?  Or does it need the UV(?) light of a heat lamp?


----------



## bczoom

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*



			
				B_Skurka said:
			
		

> Don
> Will a propane torpedo heater work?  Or does it need the UV(?) light of a heat lamp?


Don't know about your stuff Bob, but be careful (open flame or not) as some of those things are flammable or may generate noxious fumes.


----------



## Melensdad

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

Brian, it stinks, that's for sure.  I've been using a propane torpedo heater to keep it warm hoping the offgassing will allow it to cure.


----------



## OkeeDon

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

I guess I'll never know the answer, because I've never seen a torpedo heater in South Florida 

I think the radiant heat is what works; it needs to be intense.  If you have a Harbor Freight store nearby they have cheap hand-held radiant heat guns you could use to quickly try a spot.  If it works, set up an infra-red heat bulb (like you'd use in a bathroom) in a clamp light that you can move around.


----------



## Melensdad

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

Thanks, I'll try it.


----------



## Melensdad

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

Just to let everyone know, there was a problem with the photos I posted early in the thread.  They all vanished.  I put them back.


----------



## Melensdad

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

Ok we have an update.  I'm way behind on putting the Snow Trac together again and sort of screwed because of some nice heavy early season snows!!!

So I've been working in the garage and am just about ready to get back on the snow again!!!

I gave up on the epoxy for now, I tried the IR heat lamp, didn't work.  The expoxy is setting up very very slowly.  Too slow.  So I went to the big box store, bought some marine grade waterproof indoor/outdoor carpet, took the whole interior out of the Snow Trac, laid in the carpet over the epoxy as a temporary solution so I can use it this winter, and things are much better!!!

The fuel tank is now installed, probably for the first time in 20 years.  And if you remember, my fittings all came from a cappuccino maching so I'm sure if the Snow Trac doesn't run well with gasoline, I could always grind up some fresh coffee beans and let caffeine do the trick!  After the fuel tank install was complete I reinstalled the door frame (it actually holds the fuel tank's fill pipe in place).  Bolted down the rear passenger seats and gave up so I could eat some lunch!  I want to put the charger on the battery for a while just because it has not been used for a couple months and to make sure I have plenty of go-juice in it.  The drivers seat needs to be reinstalled, along with the seat's suspension system, but other than those minor things, I should be ready to roll as soon as there is gas in the tank.  

At least that is the hope.


----------



## Doc

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

Congrats Bob!  Won't be long now.  I look forward to some action pics!


----------



## Melensdad

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

I don't know what happened but the Snow Trac fired up with the push of the starter button. 

No hesitation, no studder.  Pure power.  Or at least as much power as a 1300cc 4 cylinder engine can muster!  So I took the inagural drive around the property on virgin snow!  We got about a 1/2" of fresh snow tonight.

All is good again!


----------



## bczoom

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

SWEET!!!

Glad to hear.
I would spend a few minutes looking things over to see if you can identify what the issue was.  If it happens again, it'll obviously be at a bad time.

I also wouldn't shut it down in the "back 40" until its reliability is proven.

Brian


----------



## Melensdad

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

Well we have sort of a good news-bad news-good news thing going.

For whatever reason (_and I am sure at a total loss to explain it_) the Snow Trac, which my daughter & her friends now refer to as HERBIE, seems to start up and run every time I try.  So I'm thinking that whatever ghost was in the machine is now gone and that is just fine with me.  That is the good news.  It starts & runs great again.

Soooo I went to park it after another spin around the front lawn, and I drove up on the lift ramps (_I have been parking Herbie on a 4 post car lift_) and for some strange reason it takes a sharp left turn off the lift!  Yikes.  I know I didn't turn the wheel, its like the left track stopped and the right kept going.  So now I decide to try to back out and I am not able to effectively steer in such tight quarters so I get it 1/2 on and 1/2 off the lift, sort of on its balance point.  Time for a break to figure out what to do.

Off to the other garage to get a tractor and I attach a tow strap to the rear bumper and pull, the tractor tires just spin in the deep snow.  Hmmm.  Scrape a bit of snow away with the FEL and try again.  Works like a charm, Herbie spins a bit and is almost back on the ramps.  Reposition the tractor and the tow strap and I pull Herbie right up onto the ramps and continue to pull and pull it right out the garage door into the snow.  Not too bad.  Total time maybe 15 minutes, total damage, 0.

So I hop back into the Snow Trac and fire it up again, back up and turn around and drive over to the house and park it for the night next to the driveway.  Who else can claim to have a small Orange tank like vehicle as yard art?  

My daughter is having a slumber party so we have a house full of screaming 10 year old girls, they will get a ride in Herbie tomorrow morning.  After that I am off to meet up with DavyNay, he's coming into town to pick up his new snowblower from my local Kubota/Cub Cadet dealership so we are going to meet for coffee.


----------



## Doc

*Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*



			
				Bob said:
			
		

> Not too bad.  Total time maybe 15 minutes, total damage, 0.



Whew, you had me worried there Bob.  I thought for sure the damage was about to start ...glad that wasn't the case.  Sure sounds like fun (the snowtrack).  The slumber parties brings back memories of the one my daughters would have 15 years ago   man time flys!


----------



## Snowcat Operations

*Re: 1972 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

Have you checked the brakes yet?  Sounds like one of them activated.  Could be the variator?  Those are usaully bullet proof but If one goes it a hard item to find.  I know where one Variator plate is.  Let me know if you need it.


----------



## Snowcat Operations

*Re: 1972 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

Oh yah B Skurka its Mike from Nevada thanks for the invite!


----------



## Melensdad

*Re: 1972 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

Mike, glad to have you over here.  Looking forward to some upcoming pictures of your machines after the start of the new year!


----------



## Snowcat Operations

*Re: 1972 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

Variator belt tension

Check the tension of the variator drive belt occasionally. 
When correctly tensioned, it should be possible to press in the belt by thumb 20 mm (3/4") as shown in fig.1. The tension is checked first when the belt has been run for a short time after the adjustment.​




Fig. 1​The belt is tightened by loosening each nut on the screws A in fig.1, the same amount; the screws are by that turned counter-clockwise. The lower nut is slackened from inside the cab through an opening on the right-hand heater and defroster control. Do not adjust the nuts in fig 2. These are properly adjusted when the variator is installed and their adjustment must not be altered when the belt is tensioned.​



​


----------



## Melensdad

*Re: 1972 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*



			
				Snowcat Operations said:
			
		

> Have you checked the brakes yet? Sounds like one of them activated. Could be the variator? Those are usaully bullet proof but If one goes it a hard item to find. I know where one Variator plate is. Let me know if you need it.



OK here is the real story, my brakes are totally disconnected 

Given the terrain I am on, fixing the brakes are a low priority right now.  It will be something that is fixed spring or summer.


----------



## Snowcat Operations

*Re: 1972 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

The top picture is the correct method and of course the bottom picture with the X is incorrect.  I would check the belt.  Also if you need a new belt they run about $147.34 from Gates.  I can send you there info if needed. (YOU NEED A SPARE BELT IF RUNNING OUT IN THE BUNDOCKLES! OR IN DEEP POWDER)  It the only way to get home if the OLD stocker belt breaks on you.


----------



## Melensdad

*Re: 1972 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

Heck yes send me the information on the Gates part number, and a place to buy one!  I have no clue how old my belt is and it is one constant thing I worry about.


----------



## Snowcat Operations

*Re: 1972 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

Do you mean the parking break is disconnected? Or the entire break system? The steering wheel turns the varaitor one way or the other. This applies the break to one side or the other depending which way you want to go. Something is wrong if the machine made a hard turn to one side and you didnt turn the wheel. Very dangerous if kids are about. (Human jerky comes to mind) Seen it happen when the Hyrdrastatic drive lost one motor and made the vehicle spin to the right and caught a pedestrian who was watching. (LMC 1500 P.O.S. in my opinion to heavy with the R.O.P.S.) Anyway his legs looked like chunks of beef jerky. (I Thank God I was NOT driving or the pedestrian!) Anyway have a closer look at the system could have been a cable or something that got caught up in the sprocket as well who knows. Let me know If I can help.


----------



## Snowcat Operations

*Re: 1972 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

Let me check my files on the Variator belt.  Be right back.


----------



## Melensdad

*Re: 1972 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

The entire brake system is disconnected for the moment.  I don't find it a big problem, there is not a lot of rolling momentum to worry about and I don't have mountains to worry about since I am located in Indiana where a large elevation drop is non existent.  The variator belt seem to be working fine, the problem is the brake system, and like I said, not a big deal for the moment.  But it sure sounds like you know a heck of a lot more about the mechanics of these things so I'm going to be counting on you in the future.

I've got a friend who owns some Kristi KT3s (I think he has 3 or 4 of them) and he also owns the only KT7 that I am aware of.  I've traded a few emails with a guy who has 2 LMC machines, one is a 1200 the other is a 1500.  He was looking to pick up a Snow Trac that was for sale on Ebay a while back.


----------



## Snowcat Operations

*Re: 1972 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

http://www.gates.com/catalogs/file_display.cfm?file=PT_HeavyDutyBelts_2005.pdf&thisPath=gates\catalogs
Ok here is the info on the belt PDF file. Go to page 49, right hand colum and part #2926V616 Price is $147.42. Now I am told that this is thinner than the origanal but I am sure its of better quality construction. It says the O.C. is 63.3" inches and is 1-13/16" tall. Check you belt and make sure this sounds right. (My Snow Masters will be here after New Years so I will be able to check then). As far as knowing more its just because I have done so much dam research (my wife says I should work for the CIA in the research dept, lol)  and I have a friend who is the worlds leading authority on snowcats (all of them). He's been a great help to me as well. If you want to know what you need to carry everytime you go out let me know. Everytime you venture outback in a snowcat you are at the mercy of mother nature. You should always have a stash of well thought out survival gear. If you need help on this stuff I will be glad to post pics of all the gear you should carry.  My back ground is a snowcat operator for SBC (now AT&T) and have been going to our microwave sights for about 4 years now.  I have taken all the cold weather survival courses and practice using my survival gear once a year (in my back yard) to try out new gear.  It gets pretty dang cold here -40 was the coldest I have seen with out windchill and wouldnt want to be stuck in it for a minute.  Anyway I'm no EXPERT but do have good working knowledge.  These guys are the Experts http://www.safetyoneinc.com/about.html  If you need any survival gear pre made contact them.


----------



## Snowcat Operations

*Re: 1972 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

http://www.gates.com/
This is there main page.


----------



## Melensdad

*Re: 1972 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*



			
				Snowcat Operations said:
			
		

> Everytime you venture outback in a snowcat you are at the mercy of mother nature. You should always have a stash of well thought out survival gear. If you need help on this stuff I will be glad to post pics of all the gear you should carry.



I have not strayed far from home yet, in fact I've barely gotten off my property, but we have plans for some trips into Wisconsin and Michigan and I've been thinking of building a box for winter survival supplies.  I'd love to see a list of gear with photos.


----------



## Snowcat Operations

*Re: 1972 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*

Ok will do. Re read my 2nd to last post I added some stuff to it. Also these guys are the Experts: http://www.safetyoneinc.com/about.html They have classes (which I have taken) and rate them #1 in training! Knowledge is power.  They also sell survival kits that are personal or vehicle specific.  Very good stuff.  I make my own for my own needs but run 4 to 5 times the cost of theirs.  I just want to be real comfortable if I am stranded.


----------



## Snowcat Operations

*Re: 1972 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Trac"*

One of the most difficult survival situations is a cold weather scenario. Remember, cold weather is an adversary that can be as dangerous as an enemy soldier. Every time you venture into the cold, you are pitting yourself against the elements. With a little knowledge of the environment, proper plans, and appropriate equipment, you can overcome the elements. As you remove one or more of these factors, survival becomes increasingly difficult. Remember, winter weather is highly variable. Prepare yourself to adapt to blizzard conditions even during sunny and clear weather.​Cold is a far greater threat to survival than it appears. It decreases your ability to think and weakens your will to do anything except to get warm. Cold is an insidious enemy; as it numbs the mind and body, it subdues the will to survive.​Cold makes it very easy to forget your ultimate goal--to survive.​


----------



## Melensdad

*Re: 1972 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Trac"*

*UPDATE on my EPOXY FLOORING PROBLEM:

*Well it took about a MONTH, but the epoxy has finally hardened and looks great.

The floor has been carpeted with a marine carpet that is nearly the same color as the epoxy coating that I sprayed down.  I had to put the carpet in so I could actually USE the Snow Trac because the epoxy didn't harden.  

I also sprayed epoxy on the lower side areas and around the transmission hump area as well as on the back and bottom of the drivers seat.  It all looks great and now that it is finally hardened it should provide a huge amount of protection too.  I'm sure the epoxy under the carpet has set up like glue and the carpet is now firmly stuck to the floor, which is fine, because it looks very good too, and being a waterproof marine carpet with rubber backing it is just adding one more layer of protection to the wood floor.


----------



## Snowcat Operations

*Re: 1972 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Trac"*

Pictures please.


----------



## Melensdad

*Re: 1972 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Trac"*

*ANOTHER UPDATE:   Rear Bench Seats for my Snow Trac*

I didn't have much time to work this weekend, but I did manage to build & upholster the brand new lower seat cushions.  They were constructed out of 1/4" plywood, cut into a rectangle approximately 15" by 46" and clipped 2  of corners (_front inside and back exterior corners_) at 45-degree angles to fit around some obsticals.  2" of upholstry foam was then glued to the plywood.  The whole thing was covered in upholtry batting and then in Hawaiian Barkcloth.  

I had some rubber mats that I was using as the seats covers and they were fine but provided no padding and no insulation from the cold.  I honestly don't think the 2" padding will increase the comfort level too much since most people are already wearing snow gear, but the seats look pretty good!  

I still have to make the backrests.  They will be constructed using the same method.  I believe they will probably be attached using a wide strip of Velcro unless I can come up with some other attachment method that will allow me to attach & remove them without too much grief and no physical modifications to the Snow Trac.


----------



## Snowcat Operations

*Re: 1972 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Trac"*

Bob any pics available?


----------



## Melensdad

*Re: 1972 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Trac"*

NOPE.  I didn't shoot any.  Sorry.  But I've got plenty more to do, so I can shoot some pictures of the seats and how I fit them in later.


----------



## Ice Queen

*Re: 1972 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Trac"*

I believe that the electricity board in Scotland, UK use them for access to the power lines when the weather is snowy up in the mountains.


----------



## Melensdad

*Re: 1972 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Trac"*



			
				Ice Queen said:
			
		

> I believe that the electricity board in Scotland, UK use them for access to the power lines when the weather is snowy up in the mountains.


I had some information that they were used in Canada for the same purpose.  Are they still in use by the electric utility in Scotland?  I'm amazed at how durable these little machines are.  It seems that with reasonable care, they will plod along forever and their useful lifespan is not even close to used up when they are 30 or 40 years old.


----------



## Snowcat Operations

*Re: 1972 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Trac"*

Yes one of the major utilities company CN used the Snow Masters.  They are now all gone and replaced with Tuckers (painted white).


----------



## Melensdad

*Re: 1972 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Trac"*

*Thought I would bring up my old thread with some updates . . .*


Most of what I wanted to accomplish did not happen this summer do to a series of small health issues that kept me out of the garage.  However, there has been a lot of activity lately in doing some upgrades to the Snow Trac.  

I did NOT get anything done on the interior, but there are a bunch of little issues that are now in progress _(some of these are completed, some are started but not yet finished, some I just have the parts for but have not started, all will be done in fairly short order)  _I wanted to get some radios added, some sound insulation installed, and considered building a wood dashboard but none of that got beyond the planning stages 
Dual Battery Set Up with 4 position switch to choose battery 1, 2, both or neither.
New PIAA headlamps mounted above the front windshields.
New Hella rubber armored side lights (one on each side)
New Hella rubber armored rear facing lights
New exterior mirrors mounted on each side of the cabin.
New fuse block, with modern fuses, and almost all new wiring throughout the Snow Trac.
New high output 95amp Alternator
New high performance Bosch coil
New high performance spark plug wires
Engine Tune up
New high flow air filter
New fan inside the cabin that can be adjusted to blow on either the windows or into the passenger area (depending on weather!)
Controlling the lights are "retro" looking Hella switches that are installed left of the steering wheel on the dash, they look stock because they are similar to switches that were used in the 1960's and 1970's.
Local graphics shop is making up a new shift pattern and dashboard decals to identify everything.
Below are the switches, rubber Hella side/rear area lights & mirrors that are installed.


----------



## bczoom

*Re: 1972 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Trac"*



			
				B_Skurka said:
			
		

> New exterior mirrors mounted on each side of the cabin.


Exterior mirrors?  

I would "think" that they wouldn't be much help on a snow trac.  Between the terrain/bouncing and snow accumulation, I wouldn't think you could see out of them.


----------



## Melensdad

*Re: 1972 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Trac"*



			
				bczoom said:
			
		

> Exterior mirrors?
> 
> I would "think" that they wouldn't be much help on a snow trac.  Between the terrain/bouncing and snow accumulation, I wouldn't think you could see out of them.


 They are basically going to be used for backing up off the trailer, into tight spots, etc. I would not expect that they would be used for anything other than tight space use like backing it off the 4 post lift, etc.  Out in a field or even along a roadway I really don't see them as providing much utility.  But it is sort of a pain to see toward the rear and I think these will help.  I've seen many others that had them and always thought they would be good idea.
*
OH, and ONE MORE THING that will be done.  The brakes will get fixed!!!*   I've got the Snow Trac up at my warehouse, before it goes home it will have working brakes (again).


----------



## Melensdad

I really need to get a new picture phone!!!  Sorry about the terrible photos.   I had some time to go play around and had my camera/phone with me so I snapped a couple photos.  

The left side mirror is in place but not tighted up yet.  The right mirror is not mounted yet, but it was a very easy job to mount.  The top bracket is screwed into face of the windshield frame and the bottom mount is fastened under the wing window on the side of the cab.  It fits nicely and is pretty sturdy.  It will be interesting to see how much/little they vibrate under running conditions.


----------



## Melensdad

The first photo shows the 3 light switches, mounted into my dash.  
The upper left side of the dash had nothing there and the 3 switches look just like they belong there.  From the look of the switches anyone looking into the cabin would just assume they are factory originals   One of the switches controls the 2 side lights, one controls the 2 rear lights and one controls the 2 PIAA front mounted lights.​Photo #2 shows the new fan mounted on the cabin roof.
Because the Snow Trac cabin is uninsulated and just made from single wall sheet aluminum I mounted the fan to a small piece of scrap sheet steel that was cut into a rectangle and mounted to two pieces of box steel frame that the cabin ceiling is attached to.  
I am not sure how/where I will switch the control for the fan. ​


----------



## Melensdad

WOW another milestone has been achieved today!!!

When I got the Snow Trac, only 1 headlamp worked.  It was about as bright as a birthday candle and just about as useful too.  So I upgraded to some H4 Halogen inserts and they were a VAST improvement, but the lights were cabable of 'Hi/Low' Beam but I could only get the 'Low' beam to work.  At the time that was an amazing improvement and I was happy to have that, but I knew it still could be better if I could get the wiring fixed.

The wiring is now fixed.  I have Hi/Low beams.  Today has turned out to be a very productive day   Lights, switches, mirrors, fan!


----------



## BigAl RIP

I would think adding the fan will be a great improvment . I have one for each end of my KT7 but I seem to be running out of room to install stuff !


----------



## Melensdad

I think the fan will be very good for keeping me cooler on SUMMER drives, and probably will help to keep the windows clear in the winter.  

The thing I am looking most forward to is all the new lighting.  Evening drives are common for us and so we are often out after dark.  Having 4 very bright forward facing lights will really let us see what we are driving toward and the side lights will be nice for area lighting.  I suspect the rear lights will have limited use, when backing up at night, when loading things into the Snow Trac, etc.


----------



## Eric L

Bob, what do you have installed/planned for interior lighting?

my Tucker has one small (factory?) lamp behind the drivers seat with a switch on it, ..useful, but lacking for actually seeing what your looking for at night.

Eric


----------



## mlang2005

You cant beat a compact fluorescent rv style light for an interior light. super bright and very low power draw.


----------



## Melensdad

Eric L said:
			
		

> Bob, what do you have installed/planned for interior lighting?





			
				mlang2005 said:
			
		

> You cant beat a compact fluorescent rv style light for an interior light. super bright and very low power draw.


This is one of the many areas where I am really torn.  I want to keep the "original look" and the classic 1960's/1970's "style" and appearance of the Snow Trac, but I also want to make it more practical and useable.  The light switches I bought to control my new front/side/rear lights have old style "bakelite" knobs and look original, but have modern switch mechanisms behind the dash.  The chrome fan I added is a modern fan, but it looks like the old fans that were in school busses, trucks and taxi cabs during the 60's & 70's. . . they are now commonly available in plastic and that would not look right.    So a new flourescent fixture would be a modern addition that would not "fit in" to the look of the Snow Trac's interior, however, it would be a *very practical* solution.  

I have an original Hella light, but at this point it is not wired to anything!!!  So there is no clue if the light actually works, heck I'm not even sure if I have a bulb in the fixture.  But according to the parts manual, it is only a 5 watt bulb   So there is no way that it could provide much light output even if it does work.

I could probably find several old Hella lights and wire them to one switch to increase the light output?  However, if I could find a modern high output LED light that I could put into the original Hella fixture, that would be my ideal fix for the problem.  

For now, I'm going to try to get the original wired properly, once I have the wiring to that fixture correct, then I can take the next step to the upgrade.


----------



## Eric L

these would be cool for mood lighting. they're fairly bright and real low profile, but they dont fit the "retro" look.

1" wide by 4.250" long and .375" high

Eric


----------



## bczoom

B_Skurka said:
			
		

> This is one of the many areas where I am really torn.  I want to keep the "original look" and the classic 1960's/1970's "style" and appearance of the Snow Trac, but I also want to make it more practical and useable.


Bob,

How does the Hawaiian theme interior play into keeping the "original look"?  

Maybe some 12v rope lights around the roof perimeter would work nicely.


----------



## Melensdad

Eric L . . . if I could find some bright LEDs like that, probably a multiple bulb fixture, that I could take apart and fit inside the original Hella fixture, I would do that.

Brian . . . I'm sorry, all I heard was     But I ask you, what could be more timeless & classic that a traditional Hawaiian barkcloth fabric on the bench seats?  I suggest nothing!


----------



## Jim_S RIP

bczoom said:
			
		

> Bob, Maybe some 12v rope lights around the roof perimeter would work nicely.


 
here's something that fits the theme or how about something farm themed?


----------



## Eric L

B_Skurka said:
			
		

> Eric L . . . if I could find some bright LEDs like that, probably a multiple bulb fixture, that I could take apart and fit inside the original Hella fixture, I would do that.




http://www.roundeyes.com/LED_Lighting-Off_Road_LED_s_6_Pack_Of_Mini_s_Any_One_Color.html these are smaller


----------



## mlang2005

Bob post a pic of your fixture I dont know what it looks like but could you use a rubber mount 4'' white LED reverse light for a big truck, cheap and bright.


----------



## Melensdad

mlang2005 said:
			
		

> Bob post a pic of your fixture I dont know what it looks like but could you use a rubber mount 4'' white LED reverse light for a big truck, cheap and bright.


 The light looks like this one . . . (picture is from a VW parts supplier)
It is a little over 1" wide and maybe 5" long.


----------



## Melensdad

Not much new to report, or at least not much that I can show.  The far right side of the dash has been marked and drilled out for the new battery switch that will let me choose battery 1, battery 2, both or neither.  A Snow Trac comes with 1 battery but for a vehicle like this it just makes sense to me to have a dual battery set up for safety. 

I have been using a Blue Top Optima as my primary battery, it is a deep cycle Optima coil battery.  My new battery is a Red Top Optima, it doesn't have quite the same characteristics but is supposed to have greater cold tolerance, and more CCA power than the Blue Top.  So I figure the 2 batteries make a good combination?

Below is a photo of the hole in the dash where the switch will be mounted, and a photo of the type of switch that will be installed.

The final photo is a file photo that shows were the 3 light switches _(link to Page 6 of this thread with switch discussion/photo)_ for the new lights were added on the left side of the dash and shows the location of the new battery switch on the far right side of the dash.  BTW, the batteries are located under the seat area on the far right side of the cabin, so they are basically located a very short distance UNDER the location of the battery switch.  This was done to keep the cable lengths to the batteries as short as possible.  The battery switch location is also out of the way of everything.


----------



## bczoom

B_Skurka said:
			
		

> BTW, the batteries are located under the seat area on the far right side of the cabin


Hey Bob,
Not to take this off subject but Mrs. Zoom's car (Audi A6) has the battery under the rear seat of the car.

In her care it's essential that the battery be vented.  A good battery store wouldn't even sell me a battery unless it had a vent.  Ask someone else the details but I can "guess" as to why.

You may want to consider the same.


----------



## SkiDozer 302

I believe that the Optimas that Bob is using are gel cell batteries. These gel cells would work great in the interior of a vehicle as they would not spew acid about if, God forbid, you had a rollover. At the same time, they do not gas under use like a wet cell battery would.

Also, going back to my off-road Jeep, Bob I was under the impression that you would want two batteries of the same type when pairing (using the #2 spot on your selector). This way the two batteries will have about the same life. Otherwise, one battery is working harder than the other and will be drawn down. 

I think that you are on target wanting a spare voltage supply, especially when in the back country relying on self-sufficiency to get to safety.  As I rebuild my SkiDozer, I am planning on going this route also with dual batteries. I am going to install a winch on the rear deck to pull logs up onto it. At the same time, this winch would be useful for self recovery if needed. With the winch, you would want a large supple of voltage.


----------



## Melensdad

SkiDozer 302 said:
			
		

> I was under the impression that you would want two batteries of the same type when pairing (using the #2 spot on your selector). This way the two batteries will have about the same life. Otherwise, one battery is working harder than the other and will be drawn down.


Yes, the Optimas are fully sealed gel cell coil type batteries.

Ideally I would want two of the same, but the first Optima I got was the Blue Top and the reason I got it was because I picked it up for 1/2 price with a full guarantee.  It was too good of a deal to pass up.  

When I went to buy battery #2, I bought the Red Top because that is the better battery for starting in a cold climate.  Red Top offers 800 CCA at 0F.  The Blue Top offers 800 CCA at 0F but can't maintain it for as long as the Red Top.  What it can do is hold a charge for a year without use, be drawn down farther more often, and recharge quicker.  The Red Top is the better battery for starting in extreme conditions.  Both are supposedly better than a high performance lead acid battery.  I figure the switch option to choose "both" batteries is almost like having a built in jump starter and certainly gives me a nice safety margin should I need it (_which I hope I never do!_).


----------



## SkiDozer 302

I am with you on not being able to pass up a good deal, and it sounds like you hit the mark there. I think the two batteries are compatible as I believe the problem would be having different CCA’s.

I am going to use a dual battery set up but use an oil pressure switch. To charge both batteries while running, the oil switch will pull the solenoid in. When the engine is shut down, the batteries will separate and leave a fully charged unit in reserve. I will use a momentary switch to override and pull the solenoid in to send voltage to the “starter” battery.


----------



## Melensdad

SkiDozer 302 said:
			
		

> I am going to use a dual battery set up but use an oil pressure switch. To charge both batteries while running, the oil switch will pull the solenoid in. When the engine is shut down, the batteries will separate and leave a fully charged unit in reserve. I will use a momentary switch to override and pull the solenoid in to send voltage to the “starter” battery.


What you wrote is simply beyond the basics of wiring that I understand   What I chose to do is very common on boats, its simple, inexpensive, virutally idiot proof _(something I need)_, and allows use of one or both batteries, and when not drawing a lot of electrical load it allows me to recharge either or both batteries.  



			
				bczoom said:
			
		

> Hey Bob,
> Not to take this off subject but Mrs. Zoom's car (Audi A6) has the battery under the rear seat of the car.
> 
> In her care it's essential that the battery be vented. A good battery store wouldn't even sell me a battery unless it had a vent. Ask someone else the details but I can "guess" as to why.


As previously written these batteries are simply different.  If you are not familiar with Optima batteries take a look at the graphics below.  These really are a revolutionary advancement in batteries.


----------



## bczoom

My bad Bob.  I forgot you were using Optima's.


----------



## Eric L

SkiDozer 302 said:
			
		

> I am going to use a dual battery set up but use an oil pressure switch. To charge both batteries while running, the oil switch will pull the solenoid in. When the engine is shut down, the batteries will separate and leave a fully charged unit in reserve. I will use a momentary switch to override and pull the solenoid in to send voltage to the “starter” battery.




Ding, Ding, Ding... we have a winna!

I agree with this... Bob, I know you're commited to your plan (I saw the holes in your dash), but this wouldn't be that hard to do.

Eric


----------



## Melensdad

I honestly don't see that my switch is really all that different.  The switch allows for dual charging, dual discharging, independant charge, independant discharge, etc.  The fact that I've got an alternator with an output that is greater than my maximum electrical draw should keep me in a situation where I always have charged batteries _(at least if the alternator is working)_ and the only real time I'd have less than full charge is during the starting sequence before the alternator kicks in and while the batteries are actually turning the starter motor to fire up the engine.

SkiDozer may have designed an automatic system where my system is a manual one, but the net effect is that both essentially do the same thing. Granted his does it with a bit more flair, and might be fancier & automatic, but mine is simple and I can actually understand how/why mine works. *I don't understand the solenoid thingy*. If I understand it, the solenoid thing may automatically figure out that one battery is not quite topped up?  

I'm not looking for a complicated machine when I am out cruising the woods and fields, I'm looking for something I actually can figure out. It is important to me that I can actually figure out what I have and make it work.


----------



## Melensdad

Today's Update:  Not Much Done . . . 

The battery wires are all removed and new, longer wires are going in, but probably not until tomorrow.  Work (_my real job_) is getting in the way of completing the wiring, and I had to go out to the auto parts store to pick up a new tractor battery for the small tractor I keep at my office to snowblow the freight docks.  Consequently not much work got done on the Snow Trac.  Removing the battery wires required removal of the sheet metal pan under the engine, that is now removed and when it comes time to run the wires it will be a fairly quick task to do so.  The goal, which should be attained easily, is to button up all these little tasks before the weekend.

One additonal thing that got done is a hole was drilled into the dashboard for a 12-volt power outlet.  That will power a portable Magellan "Meridian Color" GPS unit.  At some point I will probably upgrade that to a GPS with a larger screen and switch it between the Jeepster and the Snow Trac, but for now, the Magellin unit will work very well for my modest needs.

I have a mounting base for the GPS unit, I think it will fit nicely on top of the dash between the two front windows


----------



## SkiDozer 302

Bob, I am just using a different color lipstick on the same pig. We are both accomplishing the same goal. My unit will be driven by different people so this is the easier way for me, set it and forget it kind of thing. Attached to the second battery will be the winch, some outside lights, and a cigarette lighter. My wife chills easily and I have an electric blanket that plugs into the lighter for her. In this case, I know that the switch will not be left in the wrong position and find that I have dead batteries. 

Attached is a diagram to show how I am going to go about this. I hope this clarifies my process for anyone.


----------



## mtntopper

I like your thinking on this system as it takes operator error out of the picture completely......Nice schematic of how it is done....with a 12V solenoid control. Do you have a specific brand solenoid you use? Great idea and a different approach that is unique.....


----------



## Melensdad

mtntopper said:
			
		

> operator error


 *HEY*, I resemble that


----------



## Eric L

mtntopper said:
			
		

> I like your thinking on this system as it takes operator error out of the picture completely......Nice schematic of how it is done....with a 12V solenoid control. Do you have a specific brand solenoid you use? Great idea and a different approach that is unique.....




there are kits and components here

The relay/solenoid that he sells is different that what I like to use, but I cant find it at the moment

eric


----------



## SkiDozer 302

The solenoid that I use I pick up here locally and cost about $30.00. It is made by, I believe, Cole-Hearse and is rated at two hundred amp. The Twelve Volt Guy that Eric linked to also has them however; he does not list the manufacturer of this unit. They look the same though!

Here is a picture of his solenoid that he sells.


----------



## Melensdad

SkiDozer 302 said:
			
		

> is rated at two hundred amp


 Now I am NOT a mechanic, and my electrical skills are basic home wiring and rewiring.  For 12 volt I can figure out how to replace stuff but not much more than that.  *So forgive me if this is a stupid quesiton  . . . but here goes: *
My two batteries each put out 800 amps at 0 degrees F, and 1000 amps at 32 degrees F.  My battery switch is rated for this type of load and designed for this type of application.  How can a 200 amp solenoid handle that type of load ​


----------



## BigAl RIP

Ok Bob ,
   I am going to offer you some help here . This thread has been dormant for awhile and I am glad to see you getting it going again ,but you need some help .
   You need to learn how to insult all of them "weak kneed Brand X snowcat owners" that drive those LSD's DVD's,TUCKERED out TUCKER's ,BLIMP's,BOMBSAWAY and PIMP's. This will really get them fired off and start responding .Kristi's are exempt as they are the far superior machine over all others.
   So put on your little Hawaiian Shirt and those cute little short pants, with the matching suspenders and then climb up on your little stool and start beating your drum !!! When they stop laughing at your little fat short hairy legs they will respond . 
   Now ..... GO GET THEM !!!


----------



## Melensdad

Al, I am lulling them into a false sense of security and when they drop their guard then I will spring my trap.  :Sleep:    

Until then, I'm still trying to figure out the mystery of the solenoid ipo:


----------



## SkiDozer 302

Bob,
This solenoids use is to charge the second battery. If the alternator is putting out, say, 80 amps, then this falls way below the 200 amp continuous use. However, this 200 amp rating is for “continuous” use, not surge. Surge amperage is typically rated three times the continuous cycle, in this case 600 amp surge. 

Now, a starter is the only piece of equipment on a vehicle that draws high amperage, somewhere around 300 to 350 amps but that is intermittent. A hi-torque starter might be as high as 500 amps on a large V-8. When I pull in the solenoid to “self start,” I am using the voltage from the two batteries to spin the starter. Again, I am only using 300 to 350 amps, well within the range of intermittent use even if the “starter” battery is completely dead.

Here is the skinny on batteries. Your batteries are 1000 CCAs per hour. The higher the CCA rating, the greater the starting power in the battery. Car batteries are specially designed for high initial cranking amps (usually for five to 15 seconds) to start an engine; whereas, deep cycle (or marine) batteries are designed for prolonged discharges at lower amperage. The CCA rating is the number of amps a new, fully charged battery can deliver at 0 Fahrenheit for 30 seconds, while maintaining a voltage of at least 7.2 volts, for a 12 volt battery. The battery is also used to filter or stabilize power and to provide extra power for the lighting, ignition, and other accessories when their combined load exceeds the capability of the charging system, i.e., when the engine is idling.

Buying batteries with double or triple CCA ratings that exceed the OEM requirement are a waste of money for hot climates. However, in colder climates the higher the CCA rating the better, due to increased power required to crank a sluggish engine and the inefficiency of the cold battery. As batteries age, they are less capable of producing CCAs. 

One of the major battery manufacturers, Exide, publishes the following table:
Available Power from battery	    Temperature Degrees F	Power Required to crank engine
       100%	                                 80	                                 100%
       65%	                                 32	                                 155%
       40%	                                 0	                                 210%
       25%	                                -32 	                                 350%


If more CCA capacity is required, two (or more) 12 volt batteries can be connected in parallel which leads me back to why I will be installing dual batteries for self recovery.

I am not sure as to the amperage of the alternator in your unit but, I am sure that you do not have a 1000 amp alternator. It takes only a few amps to charge the battery but, a starter can drain it within 15 minutes or less. That’s if you do not burn out the starter motor first by continuous cranking.

It is late and I am not sure if I confused anyone with this. If there are any more questions, maybe after some sleep tonight I can figure a better way to explain it but, I hope this helps.

If you have read down this post this far, thank you for reading.

Ohh...and Bob, you have a nice looking machine there. These units have really grown on me in the last few days!

Regards


----------



## Eric L

SkiDozer302, you're doing a great job of explaining this...

Bob, think "Industial motor contactor" but for a car.

The relay/solenoid I use looks like this (ColeHersee.com). they come in dozens of configurations, but they all kinda look the same. I couldn't find the part # for the one I like, but its intended to be used on an electric golf-cart. continious duty rating is the key here. note: this one has 4 terminals...its probably not grounded internally...they can be had with 3 terminals..

Eric


----------



## Jim_S RIP

Eric L said:
			
		

> SkiDozer302, you're doing a great job of explaining this...
> 
> Bob, think "Industial motor contactor" but for a car.
> 
> The relay/solenoid I use looks like this (ColeHersee.com). they come in dozens of configurations, but they all kinda look the same. I couldn't find the part # for the one I like, but its intended to be used on an electric golf-cart. continious duty rating is the key here. note: this one has 4 terminals...its probably not grounded internally...they can be had with 3 terminals..
> 
> Eric


 
There are a bunch of configurations. If you get one from an auto parts store one of the small terminals energizes the coil and the other small terminal supplys 12 volts to short out the ballast resistor on the coil. The mounting bracket has to be grounded for this one to work. On others the two small terminals are the coil and one needs to be grounded. There also is one where the coil gets 12 volts from one of the large terminals and you ground one of the small ones to energize it.

Jim


----------



## Melensdad

Ok here is an opinion question for all of you.

Do I put the amber flashing strobe on the front or the back of the cabin 

I just got the strobe in the photo below (*Photo #1*).  It is about 7" tall.  I'm thinking of mounted it in front of the sunroof near the front of the cabin.  It would make wiring very simple and seems like a pretty logical place to mount the strobe.  Gordon Robertson's Snow Trac has his strobe mounted in the same place (*Photo #2*).  On the other hand, Arlow mounted his on the rear (*Photo #3*) which is also where I saw mtntopper mount the lightbar on the cabin of his LMC 1500.  If I carry anything on the roof, front mounting it will obscure the ability to see the stobe from behind.  However I don't anticipate doing a lot of carrying on the roof, it is just something to consider.

Thoughts?  Like I said, I'm leaning to mounting it on the front.


----------



## Jim_S RIP

We always put the warning lights as far to the front as practical so the cross traffic at intersections would have more chance to see them as the vehicle entered the intersection.  

Don't know if this applies to snow cats though.  Maybe you need one at the front and one at the back.

My experience is from 30 years ago but we didn't run the wiring feeding strobes with the vehicle wiring harness.  The CD system in the strobe generates electrical interference and it would cause noise in the radios.  The newer units may be better.

Jim


----------



## bczoom

B_Skurka said:
			
		

> Ok here is an opinion question for all of you.
> 
> Do I put the amber flashing strobe on the front or the back of the cabin


Now that we see power consumption isn't an issue, put one on the front and rear...


----------



## Melensdad

One thing that has bothered me for a long time was the worn out drive sprockets on my Snow Trac. 

Quite by accident I stumbled across an old file and found the email address of the former Canadian importer of the Snow Tracs.  He has a few parts for sale and we started talking about the drive sprockets.  Turns out that he has some modified heavy duty sprockets cast many years ago to make molds for a local foundry and had a bunch of sprockets cast over the years.  He no longer has any sprockets for sale, but is working on getting me a price to cast some new drive sprockets out of a bronze alloy.  Part Number ST52.  

I am not planning on changing my sprockets this season, even if I get them quickly.  My goal will be to make this a project for next summer.

If you would like to buy some sprockets too, please send me a PM and I will put you directly in touch with him.  I do NOT want to buy and then resell these sprockets, if you want a set of them I will put you directly in touch with him, it would save money on shipping to have him ship straight to you.

In the two photos below, the first is my worn out drive sprocket, the second is his heavy duty sprocket.


----------



## mtntopper

B_Skurka said:
			
		

> Ok here is an opinion question for all of you.
> 
> Do I put the amber flashing strobe on the front or the back of the cabin
> 
> I just got the strobe in the photo below (*Photo #1*). It is about 7" tall. I'm thinking of mounted it in front of the sunroof near the front of the cabin. It would make wiring very simple and seems like a pretty logical place to mount the strobe. Gordon Robertson's Snow Trac has his strobe mounted in the same place (*Photo #2*). On the other hand, Arlow mounted his on the rear (*Photo #3*) which is also where I saw mtntopper mount the lightbar on the cabin of his LMC 1500. If I carry anything on the roof, front mounting it will obscure the ability to see the stobe from behind. However I don't anticipate doing a lot of carrying on the roof, it is just something to consider.
> 
> Thoughts? Like I said, I'm leaning to mounting it on the front.


 
Bob, I looked at mounting a similar strobe on my TracMaster. It appears to me the best location is on the roof above the drivers head. My initial testing showed it to be very visible from the back, rear and both sides with the vent roof closed or even open partially. Since we normally drive on the right hand side of both roads and trails that would also make sense for the LH mounting location to be most visible to other traffic. They also make a strobe that will mount on a piece of pipe and will rise above the obstacles on the roof, but it would probably stick out like a sore thumb and be tore off by tree limbs. Hopefully today I can experiment a little more on the mounting location.


----------



## Melensdad

mtntopper said:
			
		

> Bob, I looked at mounting a similar strobe on my TracMaster. It appears to me the best location is on the roof above the drivers head.


 Bill, I was looking a little closer at this again today.  I'm going to try to stay close to the centerline of the roof, but probably offset slightly to the drivers side.  The original Hella interior light is right on the centerline just forward of the roof hatch. So I'm thinking that the exterior strobe will be just to the drivers side of the center line so as not to interfear with the interior light mount.

I've also decided to add an auxilary electric heater to the cabin.  This will be mounted just aft of the dual batteries.  It is a 300watt ceramic, adjustable fan, direct wire unit that needs a 15 amp dedicated circuit.  Good thing I upgraded the alternator to a 95 amp unit and have a new, expanded, fuse block going in with all the new wiring that is being installed.


----------



## mtntopper

B_Skurka said:
			
		

> I've also decided to add an auxilary electric heater to the cabin. This will be mounted just aft of the dual batteries. It is a 300watt ceramic, adjustable fan, direct wire unit that needs a 15 amp dedicated circuit. Good thing I upgraded the alternator to a 95 amp unit and have a new, expanded, fuse block going in with all the new wiring that is being installed.


 
I have also been thinking about another heater such as what you are talking about. What brand, price and where did you find the heater? Details, details are needed......Save me some research time and give me the details.....   Are you going to fuse it or use a circuit breaker. I like the circuit breakers that are made by Cole Hersee for this type of application.....


----------



## mlang2005

Bob why cant you swap the sprockets right side to the left side and left side to the right side then you will be running on the other side of the tooth? The one in the picture is only worn on the one side. We do this all the time on caterpillers that 95% of the time are ripping or discing going forward.


----------



## Melensdad

mlang2005 said:
			
		

> Bob why cant you swap the sprockets right side to the left side and left side to the right side


 They have already been flipped.  Not only are the teeth on these sprockets worn but the wear is eating into the ring too.  I figure my sprockets have a year or maybe 2 left in them.  Also, and it is not obvious from the photo, but there are thick and thin parts to the teeth & to the perimeter ring, I've completely worn through the thicker material on both sides of the teeth and through the thick part of the ring so now the thinner material is wearing, and it will wear at a much faster rate.  I think theu are more worn than you think thet are?

I am in no rush to replace them, but I happened upon the name of the Canadian importer and am starting the process now so that I can have new sprockets cast, and swapping them out can be a summer project for 2007 or 2008.  This project falls into the category of buy them now because you may not have a chance to do it in the future!!!  The guy I am working with has sold off or disposed of most of his Snow Trac stuff, this literally could be a last chance to get the sprockets without having to reinvent them from drawings?



			
				mtntopper said:
			
		

> I have also been thinking about another heater such as what you are talking about. What brand, price and where did you find the heater?


 Bill do a simple search for 12 volt heater on Google and you will get all the hits you need.  I checked every auto parts store in the area and none had one like this.  I found a couple different types on the internet that looked pretty good for my needs.  Because of the limits of a VW electrical system, even with my beefed up alternator and dual batteries, I wanted to limit my choice to no more than a 20 amp draw.  If I had more power, I'd have opted for a slightly different model.

 See this website: http://www.sportsimportsltd.com/12voltheaters.html

They have several good choices, but you can find better prices if you hunt around (hint: eBay).  The linked page I provided shows several good choices of heaters that will work for our applications.


----------



## Melensdad

Well I am STILL WAITING to hear about the sprockets so that is currently on hold.  But I am hopeful.   I am also still waiting for the shift pattern decals from my graphics guy.

I've also been thinking of another solution to the "shift pattern" problem and stumbled upon a company that makes custom shift knobs for cars. http://www.creative-car-concepts.com/  They make shift knobs in lots of colors, lots of designs, and they also are able to engrave a shift pattern into the knob.  

Below is a photo of one of their shift knobs, basic black, white letters in a standard VW shift pattern.  I've also included a shift pattern for the Snow Trac.  I've been trading some emails with the owner of the company, and he claims he can duplicate the shift pattern.  Cost is a bit high at $48, but I think I might go for it.


----------



## bczoom

Bob,

Not sure if it's worth considering/pursuing.

If you got a plain black knob, I would bet a local jeweler or trophy making place could engrave to your requirements.


----------



## Melensdad

I thought I would add some additional photos.

*Picture #1* shows the POSSIBLE mounting locaiton of the Magellan Color Meridian GPS unit.  The reason I say it is "possible" is because I have not secured the mounting base yet.  The rake of the windshield may force me to keep the GPS screen in a positon that is too upright for easy reading so I need to try it with the GPS unit installed in the mounting base.  The problem is the GPS is at home and the Snow Trac is at my warehouse, so I'll try it and hopefully it will fit?

*Picture #2* shows the Fan mounted and some of the wiring.  All the wiring is now in looms and some of it is fastened in place, some is still loose, but even in this condition it is much neater than it was with just some bare wires run.

*Picture #3* shows the 12 volt outlet that was installed into the dash.  A simple hole drilled and mounted flush and it looks like it came that way from the factory. The outlet will be used to power the GPS.


----------



## Melensdad

*Photo 1.*  Here is the battery switch mounted on the dash.  I am _*not happy*_ with this.  I'm going to have to redo it but it may wait until spring before I do that?  running the wires behind the dash proved more complicated than I thougth so for now the wires are surface mounted.  Again, that will change when I get more time and the wires will end up behind the switch and under the dash.

*Photo 2.*  This shows the new switches added to the left side of the dash.  Obviously they still need to be labled but they control the new lights.

*Photo 3.*  This shows the new batteries and the new heater.  Plenty of work to do down here.  I have to fabricate a new battery holder, you can see the cutout in the carpet where the original holder was located.  Dual batteries made it impossible to keep the original holder.


----------



## villi

It is better to have the gps in the same hight as your eyes


----------



## Melensdad

villi said:
			
		

> It is better to have the gps in the same hight as your eyes


Villi, I do agree with you.  

But I have this old GPS unit and it is still working great.  The mounting bracket is ideal for the top of the dash.  If I were to mount it higher, as you did, then I would have to fabricate some additional mount for the mount.  Here are a couple better photos, it shows my GPS in the mouting bracket.  It is an upright unit so it probably will be about 10" lower than is ideal, but still is not too bad?


----------



## bczoom

Bob

Check out the offerings by R-A-M mount.  They have a GPS mount for most anything from cars to planes.

Second, scrap that damn green desk.  It seems to be getting greener/bolder.


----------



## Melensdad

bczoom said:
			
		

> Bob
> 
> Check out the offerings by R-A-M mount.  They have a GPS mount for most anything from cars to planes.
> 
> Second, scrap that damn green desk.  It seems to be getting greener/bolder.


Brian, that is the breakfast table the GPS is on, and it has a green tablecloth on it!

I just ordered one of these things.  I looked at a few different models, one that I liked had a compass, but it was not illuminated for night use.  I really wanted one that was lighted, this one has that feature.  I'm not sure what use it will be for the flat farm fields I drive on, but I hope to trailer it to some more varied terrain.


----------



## mtntopper

B_Skurka said:
			
		

> Ok here is an opinion question for all of you.
> 
> Do I put the amber flashing strobe on the front or the back of the cabin
> 
> I just got the strobe in the photo below (*Photo #1*). It is about 7" tall. I'm thinking of mounted it in front of the sunroof near the front of the cabin. It would make wiring very simple and seems like a pretty logical place to mount the strobe. Gordon Robertson's Snow Trac has his strobe mounted in the same place (*Photo #2*). On the other hand, Arlow mounted his on the rear (*Photo #3*) which is also where I saw mtntopper mount the lightbar on the cabin of his LMC 1500. If I carry anything on the roof, front mounting it will obscure the ability to see the stobe from behind. However I don't anticipate doing a lot of carrying on the roof, it is just something to consider.
> Thoughts? Like I said, I'm leaning to mounting it on the front.


 
Bob, I mounted my strobe on the LH side above the drivers head as I said. I like it so much, I am going to balance the load and mount a matching strobe on the roof on the RH side also. At the price of the strobe, dual strobes are the way to make it look best in my opinion. Going to order another one on Monday. I will post pics when I get both installed.

As to the battery isolator switch it is now mounted in the small compartment under the passenger seat opposite the driver. It is hidden there and it also provides a degree of protection from unauthorized use. Unless you pay attention, you will not even know it is located under the lift up seat cushion in the small storage box just above the battery location.


----------



## Melensdad

Bill, I ended up mounting the *strobe* on the centerline, just a bit forward of the interior dome light.  It is not the perfect location (because of the slight radius of the roof) but it is darn good.

As for the *battery isolator* switch, I like the location on the dash, but I did consider mouting it into the storage area under the passenger seat.  I just figured I'd rather have it where I could get to it without having to move people, the seat or some gear that might be on top of it.

I also took my old Magellan Color Meridian GPS out with me yesterday when I went to help work on installing a hardwood floor at a friend's house. I wanted to see how it compared to a more modern unit (3 year old technology is pretty old compared to newer stuff).  It was interesting that it to a lot longer to grasp its location at first start up (about 10 minutes) and when I turned it back on late in the afternoon while driving home a different route it took 2 or 3 minutes to fix my location (which was driving on a highway several miles away from where I had turned it off).  Overall I was happy with it.  Both GPS units showed me in the same spot, same elevation, etc.  The Magellan's main fault is that the screen is not as bright and that makes it a bit harder to read in daylight settings.  It has a brightness setting and can be dimmed down for night, but the photo showes it as bright as the display will go.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

B_Skurka said:
			
		

> As for the *battery isolator* switch, I like the location on the dash, but I did consider mouting it into the storage area under the passenger seat. I just figured I'd rather have it where I could get to it without having to move people, the seat or some gear that might be on top of it.


 
Are you really going to be switching batteries that often?  That is one big honkin' switch and it is a bit of an eye sore to be mounted on the dash like that.  

I'd bury it away somewhere if it were me.  Put it under the dash on the  side wall or something.  

It's fugly on the dash like that.  Looks like something from a Little Tykes toy car!


----------



## villi

Bob
what is the big display in the dash ?



			
				B_Skurka said:
			
		

> Bill, I ended up mounting the *strobe* on the centerline, just a bit forward of the interior dome light. It is not the perfect location (because of the slight radius of the roof) but it is darn good.
> 
> As for the *battery isolator* switch, I like the location on the dash, but I did consider mouting it into the storage area under the passenger seat. I just figured I'd rather have it where I could get to it without having to move people, the seat or some gear that might be on top of it.
> 
> I also took my old Magellan Color Meridian GPS out with me yesterday when I went to help work on installing a hardwood floor at a friend's house. I wanted to see how it compared to a more modern unit (3 year old technology is pretty old compared to newer stuff). It was interesting that it to a lot longer to grasp its location at first start up (about 10 minutes) and when I turned it back on late in the afternoon while driving home a different route it took 2 or 3 minutes to fix my location (which was driving on a highway several miles away from where I had turned it off). Overall I was happy with it. Both GPS units showed me in the same spot, same elevation, etc. The Magellan's main fault is that the screen is not as bright and that makes it a bit harder to read in daylight settings. It has a brightness setting and can be dimmed down for night, but the photo showes it as bright as the display will go.


----------



## Melensdad

villi said:
			
		

> Bob
> what is the big display in the dash ?


Villi, in the center of my truck (_VW Touareg_) dash is a multi-function screen.  The display shown is the GPS navigation screen, but it also controls the Radio, the 6 CD changer, and has a host of other funcitons.  It can show elevation, location by lat/long position and even things like road temperature and it warns you if the road conditions could contain ice.  There are optional adapters that can be added to display movies on the screen (_but it is illegal to drive while a movie is playing!_).  The screen also interfaces with my Apple iPod (the small screen on the right side) so I can control the iPod through the truck stereo.  It also interfaces with my cell phone so when I receive a call while driving the audio (from the radio, iPod or CDs) mute and the call plays through the speakers and my voice is picked up by a microphone for hands free talking.


----------



## Melensdad

Well just a little update.

The brakes have been reconnected so I can now stop  but the parking brake handle assembly completely fell apart and I had to order a new one.  I found a complete handle assembly from a VW Bus on Ebay and am just waiting for it to arrive.  The price was modest, about $40 with shipping.  
This one is chrome plated so it will add some  to the interior.

I'm still waiting for the shift pattern decals.  The graphics guy did a lot of pre-Holiday partying and then took this week off for vacation so I'm sort of stuck waiting on him.  For those of you guys who wanted the decals, sorry, but we are all going to have to wait!

The guy who was going to engrave a shift knob for me revised his price, to duplicate the pattern with the angled line, the price would skyrocket to $110 plus $8 shipping.    No way.  It would be nice to have, but not that nice.  I'll just keep holding out for the graphics guy to make up the pattern so I can dash mount it.  In the mean time I found a guy who makes shift and dash knobs for hot rods/street rods.  He has some great shapes, and does custom colors, graphics, etc that he imbeds into the shift knob.  I'm working with him to put the Snow-Trac "snowflake" logo into a shift knob.  He said it would be about $35 to do that.  But then he took this week off for vacation so I don't have a firm price from him for that.  If it all works out, the graphic image in the photo below is what will be imbedded into the shift knob.

I got my "Clinometer" but have not mounted it yet.  I've seen several different units that I liked, but very few of them were illuminated for night time use.  This one is back lit and can be mounted on top or under a dash and at various angles.  It is made by Rugged Ridge, part # 791005.  Picture below.


----------



## RacerDLR

Hi Bob,

Looking at the picture of the battery selector, I was thinking you might be able to mount the switch behind the dash, depending on what's already back there, by using threaded standoffs and reversing the mounting bolts through the four mounting holes of the switch. The cutout in the dash would be a hole the diameter of the round part of the switch and four holes for the bolts. The large hole could even be lined with a vinyl edge.

Just a thought...


----------



## Melensdad

I have no issue with the battery selector being surface mounted, but I will be routing the battery cables under the dash to the back of the battery selector.

My big problem was the hole that I cut was not large enough to get the cables attached and I didn't have a bigger hole saw.  I wanted to get it together before the snow.  But we don't have any snow since this weather has been so warm all I get is rain.  One of the first things I have planned for the spring is to cut a larger hole and reroute the wires.  But the switch is actually in a convenient place, out of the way, and while it might be nicer to have a flush mount, I couldn't find one that was as heavy duty as this one.


----------



## Melensdad

I've been pretty lax on getting any update photos of my Snow Trac and its progress, and many of the photos have been pretty blurry lately because they were taken by my camera phone.

Below are a couple photos I took yesterday after doing some additional work.  

*Photo 1* shows my upgraded dash.  I had a graphics guy make me some decals to designate the functions of the switches.  You can't see it in the photo because it is 1/2 hidden, but the starter button is not labeled "starter" or "ignition" instead I had a little fun and labeled it "eject"   Having the labels really makes it easier to figure out what the different switches are for  

You can also see the shift pattern decal located on the flat area of the transmission hump  _(some Snow Tracs had rounded transmission humps, some had flat)_ and since I sprayed mine with a waterproof 2-part epoxy "bedliner" like is used in pick up trucks that was a light gray color I had 2 problems to deal with when attaching the shift pattern decal.  Problem number 1 is that the decal is white and the epoxy is light grey so there was not much contrast between the two.  To make it easier to read I wanted it on a black background.  Problem 2 is that the surface of the 2-part epoxy is bumpy and a decal would not easily stick to it.  By attaching the decal to a piece of black plastic and then afixing the plastic plate to the transmission hump I solved both issues.

*Photo 2 below* shows an exterior photo.  You can see the new mirrors, new PIAA lights, new side lights, and new amber strobe.


----------



## BigAl RIP

Very nice Bob  , 
 I plan on going to a trophy shop and having all my labels made and engaved on Brushed aluminum  metal plates so they can be removed if need be .


----------



## Melensdad

BigAl said:
			
		

> I plan on going to a trophy shop and having all my labels made and engaved on Brushed aluminum  metal plates so they can be removed if need be.


 I thought about that too but _(I hate to admit I'm getting old and my eyes are getting tired)_ I really wanted a very high contrast easy to read label.  To my eyes, the engraved metal plates are difficult to read.  Some trophy shops engrave plastic too, and for me that would be a better choice because the plastic is 2 layers, often white over black so the label would be white but the lettering would be black. 

I just prefered the stick on individual lettering because it is easy _(for me)_ to read.  

If you have never used it, the letters are sandwiched between a peel off waxed paper layer and a clear plastic adhesive layer.  You take the waxed paper side off and you are left with letters that are stuck on a clear plastic layer.  You stick the clear plastic, with the letters attached, directly to your dash, rub it down so the letters stick to the dash, then peel off clear layer.  Only the letters are left the dash and it gives a very clean O.E.M. look.  Oh, and if I ever want to remove them, they can be peeled off, it takes some effort, but they will come back off if you need them removed.


----------



## BigAl RIP

Bob,

   You make a good point on using the plastic name plates in a two color set up . I had thought, I would just have the trophy shop paint the engaved letters in black . Now I wonder if that is even possible ??? 
   My original "Kristi Name plate and model/serial number are done in plastic ,now that I looked at it . It is on a black plastic with a white lettering and stands out quite well . I may need to rethink this .

   I just went back to the start of this thread and read it all the way through . It is amazing how much knowledge you have picked up on the Snow Trac's since you started . I look at the manuals, how to repair section , and everything else you have done on FF  and it is mind bloggleing .
   You have built a hell of a snow cat section my friend !


----------



## Melensdad

BigAl said:
			
		

> You have built a hell of a snow cat section my friend !


 Its amazing how much an ignorant man, with determination, can accomplish.  

This started as a way for me to learn about the Snow Trac vehicles and create a little home on the interent where owners could talk about them.  But it quickly became obvious that there was no good place for private snowcat owners to talk about them.  I looked all over the internet for someplace like the tractor, welding and gun forums but I found nothing.  With very special thanks to Doc, who asked me to be a moderator, we have a nice community for snowcats here.  Doc gave me complete freedom to develop the Snowcat sub-Forum.  

I'd still like to see some enhancements.  Doc developed a new area where we can categorize pictures and files, but I've been lax in working on that.  I'm wondering if we need to break the categories into more than the 3 that we have, but when I think about it, I'm not sure how I'd break them into 4 or 5?  I like NOT having brand specific categories because there is so much common ground that we all seem to help each other, no matter what brand we own; I'm afraid that branded sub-forums might stifle that.  

But the real thanks goes to all the guys (and gals) who contribute here.  Go look at the thread with all the operators manuals in it.  We could not amass that type of data without the help of a lot of very helpful members 



			
				BigAl said:
			
		

> You make a good point on using the plastic name plates in a two color set up


 Well I noticed one thing when my eyes turned 40 years old.  They started to need help!!!  So for me the obvious choice is high contrast lettering on my dash.  The 2 tone plastic plates would have been my 2nd choice, and they too look good.  I'm not positive of it, but I think Gordon Robertson used them on his dash.  You might want to check his photos: Gordon's Thread

EDIT BY BOB . . . I checked through some of the photos that Gordon and I have traded and found a photo of his dash.  I don't think this photo is in Gordon's thread.  So below is a photo that shows how Gordon labeled his dash.  It looks like Gordon used black plastic engraved labels?​


----------



## Melensdad

Since we finally got a decent bit of snow I took the Snow Trac out at night to test out all the lighting upgrades that were done this summer.

Unfortunately I do not have a "before" photo using only the standard headlamps.  So the first photo shows the new halogen upgrades that are MUCH brighter than the original lamps.  The second photo shows both the Halogens + the roof mounted lights.  Even with the roof mounted PIAA lights aimed too low, they still doubled the visible distance from the drivers seat.  With proper adjustment, I expect that the roof mounted lights will come close to providing triple the forward visibility.

The photos are darker than the naked eye sees so the Halogens are really not too bad as they would be equivalent to typical automobile headlamps.


----------



## Melensdad

Before and after with the side lights, and also a photo with the rear lights on.

There are 2 lights facing the rear.  There is 1 side light facing away from each side.


----------



## mbsieg

Cool lights Bob, I hope no one mistakes you for a UFO with all those lights you have!!!


----------



## Melensdad

Well the lights really work well and now I can not only see, but I can also be seen.

But I ran into another of my ghost problems last night.  I was out running the Snow Trac, stopped to take a photo and the engine sputtered and died.  Up until that point it was running great, it was warmed up and everything was working perfectly.  I had stopped, probably for about a minute and it was idling when it just quit.

I went to restart it and even with both batteries selected the starter would barely roll the engine over. 

Walked to the house (I was in the back yard and was returning from my ride) ate dinner, walked back out, and it started right up without any problems.

Any clue why this would happen?  Its been a long time since I played with VW engines and this incident just has be puzzled.  What would cause this?  Like I said, it was running perfectly, had been out for a couple mile run, everything was warm, everything was working properly.


----------



## bczoom

From my chair way over here, it almost sounds like both batteries drained.

Do you have an ammeter &/or voltmeter in the ST4?


----------



## Melensdad

bczoom said:
			
		

> From my chair way over here, it almost sounds like both batteries drained.


That is what it seemed like, but when I went back out it started right up without a hitch.



			
				bczoom said:
			
		

> Do you have an ammeter &/or voltmeter in the ST4?


I do.  But it is the only gauge that doesn't work.


----------



## DaveNay

B_Skurka said:
			
		

> That is what it seemed like, but when I went back out it started right up without a hitch.
> 
> I do.  But it is the only gauge that doesn't work.



Maybe it _is_ working, and you are just generating 0 amps?!


----------



## Eric L

bczoom said:
			
		

> From my chair way over here, it almost sounds like both batteries drained.
> 
> Do you have an ammeter &/or voltmeter in the ST4?



I would tend to agree with this... Even if the alternator is putting out full juice, the lights may bee more than it's capable of...

tell us again what the rated output of the alt is.. and did you calculate the amout of draw with all the lights on?


----------



## Eric L

B_Skurka said:
			
		

> That is what it seemed like, but when I went back out it started right up without a hitch.
> 
> I do.  But it is the only gauge that doesn't work.



the batteries will come back to life to a certain extent if left to sit for a bit.


----------



## Melensdad

DaveNay said:
			
		

> Maybe it _is_ working, and you are just generating 0 amps?!


 Well that would totally honk me off if it was true, I had the generator completely rebuilt to a higher output this summer.  All new wires run from the batteries to the starter too.  There is also a light on the dash that glows when the battery is being discharged but is off when the battery is being charged (_and I know that light works because when you turn the ignition on but don't have the engine running that light is on, and it turns off when the engine is running because I made sure to double check that last night_)

But still, when I went out to restart it, it fired up, the lights were not dim, everything worked.  So while it sure seemed like an electrical issue, I'm not sure what the heck it really is.


----------



## bczoom

Bob,

If I recall, your battery isolater switch has a "neither" position.

I think something like this may be a good test to identify the problem.  Other members - tweak or correct me if this won't accomplish the test.

Get your snow trac in the same condition (warmed up and stuff).
Put the battery switch in the neigher position.
It should remain running.
Leave it at an idle.
Turn on a light
If still running, turn on another light.
Keep repeating the process until everything is on or it quits.

If/when it does quit, turn everything off, re-engage the batteries and re-start the engine.

Again, set isolator to neither.

At idle, turn on the last thing that made it die (we're testing for shorts in this step).  If it quit, you probably have a short.

If it didn't quit, turn stuff on until it does shut down again.  You now know how many lights overwhelm the system.  Adjust accordingly.


----------



## mbsieg

Be carefull in doing this "running with no battery hooked up" alot of alternators will burn out this way. Better get a volt meter and check the voltage.


----------



## mlang2005

What I do in a "it wont crank" situation is :  

*this takes two people in the daylight, one to watch the head lights*

  Turn on head lights, are they bright as normal. if yes attempt to crank engine, with starter cranking lights should only slightly dim, if they dim almost clear out you have a weak battery or bad battery connection. If the lights stay bright but the engine cranks slow you most likely have a bad starter(dragging) but some other things to check would be: free engine rotation, can you turn the engine by hand? If trans is in gear maybe the clutch is not completly releasing. If the starter dosen't do anything and the lights don't even flicker when you press the start button, you have a problem with your start wiring circuit ie. key switch, start button, neutral safety, starter relay. you can bypass all these components with a screwdriver at the starter but you should be sure the machine is out of gear and loose clothing is out of belts and fans. sometimes a light tap on the starter with a hammer while someone holds down the start button will do the trick, if this works replace the starter.


  In your case Bob I think you had some starter trouble a while back but I cant remember what you came up with on that, but if the starter is new it sounds to me like maybe you have the ignition timing advanced way to far. The VW's I have had ran good with alot of advance but cranked hard. especially when hot or loaded up from ideling.


----------



## Melensdad

Thanks guys for all the advice on the starter & battery issue, looks like I have some things to test out.
*

But in the mean time I got my new custom shift knob in the mail today *


I've been working with a guy named Bruce Roosa, the owner of a small custom shift and dash knob company on this little project.  Bruce is able to embed objects or photos into shift knobs or dash knobs.  He offers a couple different shapes & sizes and will customize them to match your paint job, interior color scheme or whatever else you can think of.  I made up a simple logo graphic, he printed it out, and embedded it into a knob for me.  

I chose a "flair top" shaped knob because it closely matches the stock knobs that were on the dashboard.  I also liked the look of the knob versus a standard "ball" shaped shift knob.  He could have done it in any color I would have chosen, or even a swirl pattern, but I felt a solid black knob would best work with my Snow Trac.

He can do these for any brand of car, truck, or snowcat.   Bruce already has the Snow Trac logo that I made up, so if you have a Snow Trac and want a custom knob, he can probably make one up in very short order.  For other brands, you will have to work with Bruce to send him your logo or whatever it is you'd like embedded in your shift knob.  If you are interested, you can contact Bruce directly via email.  koolknobs@collinscom.net

Price, including shipping is going to be roughly $36.00 price may vary slighly for some options?

Bruce has a website you might want to look at:  www.koolknobs.com  Many of his pieces are fancier than what I got, with swirls or things in the plastic.
_
I'm thinking BigAl may need to have a set made up in the *"King Ranch"* colors with *KT7 Yetti Edition* embedded in the top!_


----------



## BigAl RIP

All kidding aside , That is really sharp . If I had a transmission you can bet I would get one.


----------



## Melensdad

BigAl said:
			
		

> All kidding aside , That is really sharp . If I had a transmission you can bet I would get one.


 Don't you have two knobs that control your hydraulics?

I've made up a simple graphic that could be embedded into the shift control lever.  This one would obviously be for the left lever.  It would be easy to modify the graphic to suit your needs, alter type colors, etc.


----------



## Melensdad

*STARTING UPDATE: * I just can't figure this out.  

Went out and set the battery selector to Battery #1.  Hit the starter button and the engine turned over and tried to start (but I forgot to pull the choke so it didn't  )

Set the battery selector to Battery #2.  Pulled the choke.  Hit the starter button.  Snow Trac fired up in about 2 seconds.  Turned the battery selector to OFF and the Snow Trac continued to run without a hitch.  Lights worked without dimming, but I admit that I was not running ALL the lights.

I think maybe it was just a fluke the other night???


*SHIFT KNOB UPDATE:*  OK the photo is a _really bad_ camera phone photo, taken in the dark with only the light from the dome light inside the Snow Trac and some minimal residual light from outside.

Still the knob fit perfectly, looks great, is almost identical to the original in size but is a different shape.  It looks good in place and the photo _also_ shows the shift pattern decal that I had made and installed on a piece of black plastic and then mounted at the base of the shift column.


----------



## BigAl RIP

B_Skurka said:
			
		

> Don't you have two knobs that control your hydraulics?
> 
> I've made up a simple graphic that could be embedded into the shift control lever. This one would obviously be for the left lever. It would be easy to modify the graphic to suit your needs, alter type colors, etc.


 
 I like that alot Bob ,but the problem is my knobs are about 1" in diameter .
 I could probably label one "right track" and the other one "left track" but other than that I think it would be hard to fit everything else  on it . Or maybe just "forward<--->reverse" with a arrow in between .


----------



## bczoom

B_Skurka said:
			
		

> Turned the battery selector to OFF and the Snow Trac continued to run without a hitch.  Lights worked without dimming, but I admit that I was not running ALL the lights.
> 
> I think maybe it was just a fluke the other night???


I would have continued and tested all the lights.

Fluke?  Could be but if you were going to be 10 miles from home would you want to risk it?


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## Melensdad

Brian, had it not been the lovely Mrs_Bs birthday, I would have spent the time out there doing a full test.  As it was, I snuck out to the shop between activities last evening and was only in the shop for about 10 minutes.  Friday night I will have a couple hours to play out there because she is the sponsor for a high school dance and I don't have to be there to help.

My goals for Friday evening are to mount the Clinometer and the GPS system, as well as to play around with the lights/ignition issue.  Oh, and I want to watch Firefly on HDTV.


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## Melensdad

It took less than an hour, and all went smoothly, the Clinometer is mounted on the top of the dash and wired so that it lights up with the ignition.  I had originally thought it would be best to mount to the bottom of the dash, I actually installed it there, but it was too close to the shift knob for comfort.  Without gloves on, it wouldn't be a problem, but with gloves on I think shifting up into 2nd or 4th it would have been problematic.  So I repositioned it to the top of the dash, ran the wire down the wire access hole and over to the new fuse block.  Connected it up and used a 5 amp fuse to protect it.

The GPS unit fits, but just barely.  It really would be better if I had a horizontal screen GPS instead of a vertical unit, but I really didn't see the need to buy a new unit when it really is not a needed feature.  The mount is designed to tip the unit back and to allow it to rotate, but there really is not enough room on top of the dash for a mount that will allow it.  The GPS runs off either battery or plugs into the 12-volt outlet so I've got dual power options.  Its not a bad unit, but not as good as the more modern units on the market.

I also worked a bit more on the ghost starter issue.  The problem was it fired up and ran flawlessly no matter what I tried.  With or without the batteries turned "on" and with or without a variety of lights.  And it is about 15 degrees colder tonight than it was the day I had the problem so I just can't figure out why it is working perfectly but I'm not complaining!


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## Melensdad

We don't have much snow but we have enough to go out.  So I went out for a night drive, just about 5 or 6 miles round trip to check out the Clinometer and the GPS and play around more with the lights, check for the ghost problem with the starter, etc.

I did find out that you want to pay attention to where you are driving rather than mess around with a camera on a steep hill while trying to go down a slope between trees  I sort of smacked the right side mirror a little bit with a tree branch but managed to make it down without any other incident other than dropping the camera and taking part of another branch off the tree and down the hill.  I was just trying to take a photo of the Clinometer maxed out on its scale (it goes to 30 degrees) but didn't manage to get the photo.   On the other hand, if you have a Clinometer, make sure it is a lighted one, most of the models I looked at were not lighted and I'm glad I found one that had lights.

The Clinometer works well, I didn't play on any side slopes, but I figured out first hand that the vertical climb & decent scale is not sufficient for the Snow Trac.  The Snow Trac can easily manage hills steeper than the Clinometer can measure.  I went up and down the same slope without any effort with the Snow Trac _(my tractors have a heck of a time climbing that slope and feel very unstable)_.

I also went out along a river that runs behind the property and onto an adjacent farm just because I wanted to keep running along the river.  Even in the darkness it was still a pretty drive.

Despite the 10 degree F temps, I had no problems with the starter using only 1 battery.  I had no operating problems with the lights on, no electrical problems.  So my ghost is still in hiding.


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## BigAl RIP

Ok!
 I am jealous!

 I am "So Ready" to start enjoying my snowcat like that . I think maybe I should have got a lighted tilt meter like yours . It glows very well . 

Have fun Bob !


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## Vance

Very nice, Bob!!  Good to see you out playing.  Out here in CA we haven't had any snow for about a month.  Going down as the driest January on RECORD...    

You mentioned that your GPS was kinda too tall.  Have you considered replacing the mount with a RAM version?  I use them in my Jeep and snowmobile and plan on adding one to my cat, too.  They are very adjustable and stable.  Lots of places to get them and they have custom mounts for each GPS.  I also use the same ball mount with a different adapter to mount my video camera on some Jeep runs.  Sounds like you might want to add a camera mount somewhere to get action shots with out taking out anymore trees....  

Keep the pics coming,

Vance


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## Melensdad

BigAl said:
			
		

> I think maybe I should have got a lighted tilt meter like yours . It glows very well .


As I often spend more time in the Snow Trac at night, I realized how important lights are for my use.  But the interior is just plain old dark!  On thing my VW Touareg has that is very nice is some low intensity red light that shine down on the dash area.  I really wish I had that in the Snow Trac to illuminate the dash.  I have to rely on "feel" to select the correct knob or switch.  As you are not quite done, you may want to consider installing BACK LIT name plates on your KT7?



			
				Vance said:
			
		

> You mentioned that your GPS was kinda too tall.  Have you considered replacing the mount with a RAM version?  . . . Sounds like you might want to add a camera mount somewhere to get action shots with out taking out anymore trees....


 What is a RAM mount?
The mounting base I have can be mounted at most any angle, including mounting it on the windshield with double stick tape.  But the problem I have is that there is not a lot of room there to tilt the display back so it is almost straight vertical.  It is pretty easy to read, but would be easier if I could tilt it back a few more degrees.  I think one of the more modern horizontal screen units would fit a lot nicer.

As for the trees, I had my choice of smacking my wife's 400# concrete planter or taking out a couple branches.  I'm pretty sure I made the right choice!


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## bczoom

B_Skurka said:
			
		

> What is a RAM mount?


Probably the best and most versatile mounting system there is.
www.ram-mount.com

They have mounts for most anything.  Their stuff is used in planes, boats, off-road vehicles, ATV's...  Heck, my neighbor has them on his tractor.

Depending on what you're looking for (as they don't carry everything), it's been awhile but the best pricing I've found was at www.walleyesinc.com


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## BigAl RIP

B_Skurka said:
			
		

> As you are not quite done, you may want to consider installing BACK LIT name plates on your KT7?


 
  Bob ,
 It is a little late to add back lighting now .

  This "good information" should have been sent to me during the R&D phase of the "KT7 rebuild project" !!! Where were you   . I sent a note to all department heads about this . You must have been out playing in your Snot Track that day  .

   All my rocker switches are lighted to identify which ones are on .  But I will keep that in mind when I rebuild the KT4 and the KT3.

 Sincerely ,
 A.C. Hutson
"Grand Poobaa and Chief Bottle Washer"
 The KristiCat Rebuild Company 
 Elk City , Id.


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## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Bob - get some kick ass Night Vision goggles so you can drive around in the dark!


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## BigAl RIP

PBinWA said:
			
		

> Bob - get some kick ass Night Vision goggles so you can drive around in the dark!


 
 Damn !!! Where were you when I was building my R & D team for my KT7 rebuild . Ecellent idea . 

    Ok... Bob is now off the KristiCat rebuild team and your on .. You start tomorrow . Bring beer money .


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## Melensdad

bczoom said:
			
		

> Probably the best and most versatile mounting system there is.
> www.ram-mount.com


 OK well I looked at the Ram Mount.

First disadvantage I see is a biggie.  My Magellan mount has a place in the back to connect up the 12-volt cord.  I don't see that in the Ram Mount.  That means I'd be stuck powering the GPS via "AA" batteries, and when it is in battery mode the screen turns off to save power.  I want the screen on all the time, therefore I need the 12-volt cord connected.  If the ram mount accomodates the 12 volt connection, I can't tell from the website.

Second problem I see is that the Ram Mount might be a little better than what I already have, but not much better.  And for the cost of the Ram Mount, it just doesn't seem worth it _(for my application, especially given the fact that I already have a useable, but not perfect mount)_.  If I did not already have a mounting bracket, I would buy the Ram Mount in a heartbeat.

In fact I may buy one to hold the cellphone and the FRS radio.  

Still unclear what to do about a CB radio.  I don't have one of those but it seems like it might come in handy someday and am considering adding one (_but only if I can find one with a lighted/backlighted face_) at a good price, probably need an external speaker too.


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## bczoom

B_Skurka said:
			
		

> First disadvantage I see is a biggie.  My Magellan mount has a place in the back to connect up the 12-volt cord.  I don't see that in the Ram Mount.


I don't have a GPS so I honestly don't know but I'd be very surprised if it didn't accommodate the 12v cord.



			
				B_Skurka said:
			
		

> Still unclear what to do about a CB radio.  I don't have one of those but it seems like it might come in handy someday and am considering adding one (_but only if I can find one with a lighted/backlighted face_) at a good price, probably need an external speaker too.


Hmmm.  I don't know of any with a full backlit face.  Normally, just the meters are illuminated.


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## mbsieg

Is this what you are looking for??


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## mbsieg

The night view on left day view on right.


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## Melensdad

mbsieg said:
			
		

> Is this what you are looking for??


 Yup, if I add one, then it will be one like that. I saw them at Radio Shack a while back.  And given my recent night drives, it would be totally mandatory for me to have a full backlit or fully illuminated face so that I could use it.  But I think I would opt for a more basic model.


Here is a Cobra 20XTR on ebay.  These are commonly under $70.00

This Cobra CB retails for $140.00!
Cobra's 20XTR Xtreme Street 40 Channel Communicator comes with an illuminated transceiver and when transmitting the antenna illuminates!
*Features:*
Neon Illuminated Communicator
Neon Illuminated Front Panel Dual Watch
Illuminated LCD Display for night time viewing
Neon Illuminated Antenna
Public Address function when transmitting
40 Channels (26.965 to 27.405 MHz) for interference free communication
Squelch Control eliminates background noise in the absence of a signal
Power/Volume Control Turns unit on/adjust incoming audio
Frequency Control: Phase Lock Loop Synthesizer
RF Output Power: 4W
Microphone Type: 4 Pin Screw-On Dynamic
Maximum Power Allowed
CB/PA switch
No Service Fees
Remote Mount Installation Easily installed in dash or under dash
Dimension (W x H x D): 4 1/2" x 1 3/4" x 6 1/2"
Antenna length 11"
1 Year Warranty


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## bczoom

B_Skurka said:
			
		

> Yup, if I add one, then it will be one like that. I saw them at Radio Shack a while back.  And given my recent night drives, it would be totally mandatory for me to have a full backlit or fully illuminated face so that I could use it.  But I think I would opt for a more basic model.


Bob,

I believe I have that same one (Cobra 29 LTD WX) but mines older so it doesn't have the lights.
It's not bad at night.  The only button you really need to touch is the one on the far left which is power/volume.  The rest are relative stagnant once set.

A basic model will 3 knobs.  power/volume, squelch and channel.  These are very easy at night without back-lighting (but won't look as cool...).


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## Melensdad

Just out for a Sunday afternoon drive 

These photos are taken along the river (West Creek) that runs behind my home.

The drive was pleasant enough, but sunshine would have made it a little better.  Probably did a 10 mile loop, or close to 10 miles.  Didn't see any deer today.


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## Melensdad

Too bad it is an overcast day!   These two are also along the river.


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## Melensdad

Our 6" of snow is down to just enough to cover the short grass, but we are due for several more inches over the next couple of days 

These photos were taken about 2 miles south of the prior photos, not too far off the river, in an area that is great for deer and bird hunting.  In the summer the grass gets up to 5 or 6 feet tall and gives the animals great cover, but there are some hills and trees to hide deer stands.


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## DaveNay

B_Skurka said:
			
		

> Antenna length 11"



If I remember right from my days of messing around with CB's in High School, you will want to ditch that little rubebr duck antenna, and put a 102" whip on there instead.

A couple of 60" fiberglass firestiks would look nice too (they are red and black).


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## BigAl RIP

So Bob ,

 I Don't think I have heard anyone ask what kind of fuel mileage this snowtrac is getting  . Do "they" ( the factory) rate it off MPG or by the hour meter ???
   Al


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## Melensdad

Allen, I have no clue what the fuel mileage is for a Snow Trac!  I suppose it might be in the owners manuals somewhere, but I can't recall reading it.  I seem to recall reading that a Kristi KT3 would get 6 to 8 hours of running time out of a tank of fuel.  If the Snow Trac and the Kristi have similar size fuel tanks, then I'd suppose that they get roughly similar use times based on the fact that they have the same engine.  But that is only a guess.

I suppose I would be a lot more concerned about the fuel use rate if I took the Snow Trac up into the mountians, but having its own garage space in my shop, I just make sure I top off the tank before I go for a drive.  Honestly, after the first fill, I don't think I've ever put more than 1 or 2 gallons into the tank.



			
				DaveNay said:
			
		

> If I remember right from my days of messing around with CB's in High School, you will want to ditch that little rubebr duck antenna


Probably correct for the longest range, but the longer the antenna the more likely it is to get smacked off the roof by a tree branch.  

One thing I was looking at today while driving was the headroom so I could build an overhead console like BigAl and Arlow built for their machines.  There is plenty enough room for a CB radio up there, and an electronic compass and the Clinometer.  So I think the CB will probably be purchased sometime this summer and then I'll have to worry about the antenna after that!


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## Lyndon

ST4's get about 4 miles to the gallon. I noticed that your tracks got tighter as the run progressed. Be Ware of overtensioning due to snow build-up in the tracks. 2 Guy's busted Axel housings last season because of this. They are real expensive and a real hassel to change out, not to mention that the machine becomes impossible to move. Your Snow thrower covers are missing from your rear 2 bogey's. The old Truck flap style seemed to work better. Check the service manuals.


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## Melensdad

Help, *I need new (longer) wiper arms* but I don't know what will fit???  

I was out in the blizzard that hit the midwest yesterday and found out, under the worst possible conditions, that my wipers are woefully inadequate.  My wiper arms are too short and when the wipers are used, they clean an area that only occupies the lower 1/2 of the windshield so that you have to bend down to look through the cleared part of the windshield.  My line of sight is just over the TOP of the area that is cleaned by the wipers.

Are wiper arms "universal" fit items so that that I can just buy longer wiper arms and use swap them?  Or do I have to find some bizarre late 1960's VW part that was from some obscure model?  Are VW Bus arms longer than VW Bug arms?


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## mtntopper

Bob, take one of your wiper arms off and take it to the parts store. They should have universal arms that are adjustable in length that will fit. I have adjustable arms on my 1200 LMC and they work well. The other option is you will just have to shrink to fit the arms you have and learn to use what you have now..... Have fun playing in your new snow.


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## Snowcat Operations

SNOW!  Hell Bob no more crap from BigAl!


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## nwerring

I have the newer (?) model where the wipers are mounted over the windows... They clear your line of sight a lot better. I needed new motors though, and went to a boat equipment store and got two great motors that could be adjusted to fit the SnowTrac perfectly. It also had a universial shaft that will accept better wiper blades (both longer and better..) The added bonus with accessories for boats are that they are usually in stainless steel and a bit more robust than the car stuff. I'll post a photo later...


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## Melensdad

nwerring said:
			
		

> I have the newer (?) model where the wipers are mounted over the windows... They clear your line of sight a lot better. I needed new motors though, and went to a boat equipment store and got two great motors that could be adjusted to fit the SnowTrac perfectly. It also had a universial shaft that will accept better wiper blades (both longer and better..) The added bonus with accessories for boats are that they are usually in stainless steel and a bit more robust than the car stuff. I'll post a photo later...


 I have room above the windshield where I could mount the wiper motors if I need to move mine, but I'd prefer to find a longer arm.  I do like the boat store solution!  That is a great suggestion.


			
				mtntopper said:
			
		

> Bob, take one of your wiper arms off and take it to the parts store. They should have universal arms that are adjustable in length that will fit.


 Seems reasonable to start out by removing one of what I have and seeing what is available that will fit.  This may be a summer project as the marinas in my area are not open yet and I think I'd like to see what the boat shops have.

Here is a photo that more clearly shows how little coverage I get from my wipers.  You can see the wiper arm is just to short to reach up very high on the window, and that requires the use of short wiper blades so I only get coverage of the bottom 1/2 of the window.


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## Melensdad

Here are some photos of our most recent snow.  
Unfortunately the camera battery died so I didn't get any action shots!  

The first photo shows me driving over to the house.  

Photo #2 shows the view looking out the driveway _(right after I plowed it for the 2nd time)_.  It was too windy _(30mph sustained/40+ gusts)_ to use the snow blower so I had to use the front loader and a rear blade.  Not sure why I bothered to plow, the road was not passable 

Photo #3 is a view out the back when we came back from a night drive.  We were the only vehicle on the road  as the county police issued a warning to stay off the roads because the snow plows were getting stuck in the drifts _(which were reported to be up to 9' but I never saw one that tall)._


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## Vance

Looks like fun - glad that you got all that snow so you get your cat out and get some pics that don't show grass coming up through the tracks!!!

Keep the pics coming,

Vance

P.S.  I'd take your wipers down to the local Napa or tractor place - they are very resourceful.


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## mbsieg

Cool pics Bob!!!!!!!!! You got alot of snow this round!!!


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## Moorbagger

Hello Bob,

very good condition for you and your Snow Trac, nice picture

Here in Germany we miss snow all the wintertime  

the weather today sunny and 12* celsius I think ca. 50*Farenheit


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## Snowcat Operations

GREAT PICTURES!  Love all that snow.  So how is she doing in the deep stuff?


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## Melensdad

Look what just arrived, it was a gift from my low friends low places (aka not true & exclusive fans of Snow Tracs)

Thanks guys, it will be bolted to the back of my Snow Trac.


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## BigAl RIP

B_Skurka said:
			
		

> Look what just arrived, it was a gift from my low friends low places (aka not true & exclusive fans of Snow Tracs)
> 
> Thanks guys, it will be bolted to the back of my Snow Trac.


 
Hey Bob ,
I know where one is mounted on one of them there Kristi KT7's   you like to make fun of .
So it ain't just a Snot Trac thing . Its a Snow Cat thing !!!! 

Congratulations Big Daddy and welcome to the group  !!!


----------



## Melensdad

Despite the fact that I am confined to sitting for the next month or so due to surgery, I've been collecting parts for the continuation of my upgrades.  The new rear strobes arrived and they should tuck right into place under the roof rail.  While it might be overkill to add them, I often drive with the sunroof popped up and that obsures the strobe that is mounted on the front of the cab.

I'm also looking to install an overhead console above the drivers area, similar to what ARLOW did in his Snow Trac or what BigAl did in his Kristi KT7.


----------



## Snowcat Operations

I like those units.  I am currently stripping the paint off my Snow Master.  Messy business!  I have a few ideas on where I will be placing mine.


----------



## Melensdad

Snowcat Operations said:
			
		

> I like those units.


 These are small LED strobe units, certainly not designed for emergency vehicle use.  However for adding just that added bit of rear facing lighting that I am looking for when driving on snowcovered roadways, I think it will be plenty enough; especially since they are just suppliments to a commerical duty strobe that is on the roof.

My wife hates it when we drive with the overhead strobe flashing, but on the roadway, or when running on the shoulder of the road, I prefer not to take chances.  I don't run the overhead strobe out in the fields or woods.  These two rear strobes will be connected to the same dashboard switch that controls the overhead strobe.


----------



## Cooperboy54

Melensdad said:


> *Re: 1971 Aktiv Fischer ST4 "Snow Track"*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ron, why wait to NEXT winter when we have THIS winter coming up pretty quick!!!
> 
> I am hoping to haul it around a bit this winter, probably into lower Wisconsin and into Michigan too.  I may just show up at your door one day with a crazy red toy on the back of a trailer!


Ron,  I'm also in South Eastern Michigan, Clarkston and would love to come see your ride. 
Please let me know if your ever in the area or heading North this winter. 
I'm new to this forum.  Your trac looks awesome.  Great job!
Steve


----------



## 300 H and H

Cooperboy54 said:


> Ron,  I'm also in South Eastern Michigan, Clarkston and would love to come see your ride.
> Please let me know if your ever in the area or heading North this winter.
> I'm new to this forum.  Your trac looks awesome.  Great job!
> Steve


Check the date first. This add was from 2007.
Snow Tracs do come up, just none right now.


----------



## Melensdad

Cooperboy54 said:


> Ron,  I'm also in South Eastern Michigan, Clarkston and would love to come see your ride.
> Please let me know if your ever in the area or heading North this winter.
> I'm new to this forum.  Your trac looks awesome.  Great job!
> Steve


It has been sold, it was a great machine but I ran out of garage space and started selling off some of my stuff.


----------

