# "Snowzilla": A Comprehensive Tucker 1643 Project...



## Blackfoot Tucker

My snowcat buddy, Scott, and I are working on two Tucker projects somewhat simultaneously. This thread features the second machine, which we named "Snowzilla". The thread will follow the progress of the different parts of the project which includes various repairs and numerous modifications. I'll post updates periodically, but it will be a minimum of several months before it's complete. I hope you enjoy it. 

In November of 2015 I saw a 1980 Tucker 1643 listed on ksl.com. Based on the listing description, I thought it was potentially a good buy and sent a PM to a new forum member whose screen name was fsdesign. He was looking for a snowcat and I thought this was an excellent candidate for his needs. He passed on it, and so I bought it.

In my opinion, if you need to carry more than four people and you’ll be operating in deep snow, the 1643 is the holy grail of backcountry access, rubber belted Tuckers. The thing is though, they’re comparatively rare. If a decent one becomes available at a reasonable price you have to be ready to jump and jump now, otherwise it will be gone. Here are some pics of the machine when I went to look at it.












Pretty nice machine overall; it was originally owned by Pacific Gas and Electric. There was a placard indicating the hour meter had been changed at 397 hours and the new meter showed 97.1, so just under 500 hours. It was originally ordered as a 1543 per the data plate, and somewhere in it’s life the carriers and tracks had been upgraded to the longer 1600 series versions. SnoTrans sold it to the guy I was buying it from in 2002, and it had the long tracks on it then, so I suspect the upgrade was done during PG&E’s ownership. A couple of bonuses; the Tucker came with a factory installed Warn 8,000 LB winch, and the carriers had the damper wheel upgrade done to them. It had a nice, large rooftop carrier someone had added as well. There were a few repairs that I thought were poorly done, such as a patch on the top of the gas tank, and an ill fitting aftermarket electric fuel pump. But other than that - not bad at all.  The paint was original and had 35 years worth of weathering and scratches.


When I was inspecting the machine, the gasoline smelled terrible and the engine had a miss in it. I attributed the miss to either poor fuel, or simply needing a tune up and didn’t think much of it. After buying it, I took it home and cleaned out the inside and then dropped it off at my snowcat buddy’s shop in SLC. 

The first order of business was a tune up. The spark plugs looked to be nearly new so we left those alone, but new ignition wires, distributor cap and rotor were installed. And…no change to the miss. So we decided to rebuild the carburetor. In the process we found a significant amount of crud inside and thought that it certainly would run better after the rebuild. And…it didn’t. The next step was a compression check and we found zero compression on two cylinders! How do you have zero? Even if there were holes in the pistons you should see a temporary increase and then a drop. So, off with the valve covers and…the mystery was solved. We found two bent pushrods and two broken rocker arms. I called my “friendly" Dodge dealer and the parts guy only had books that went back to 1985, and he doubted he could get them anyway. Surprising to me, considering how many 318s Chrysler built during the sixties, seventies and eighties. Rather than get some cheap, made-in-China ones, we hit the salvage yards. Believe it or not, finding a 318 or 360 was not easy. Most yards have crushed their older vehicles and focus on newer models. Once the used parts were cleaned up and installed, we started the engine and it ran great. In the carburetor rebuilding process we decided to remove the factory manual choke cable and we installed an automatic choke instead.


Here are some photos of the bent pushrods and broken rocker arms. A couple things to note: For one thing how clean the parts are, indicating low usage and frequent oil changes. The other thing I’d mention is the straighter pushrod was actually much worse. So bad in fact it wouldn’t pull out of the cylinder head without straightening it somewhat.






An obvious question is “How did the pushrods get bent and the rocker arms broken?” My understanding is one can bend pushrods at high RPMs if the valves float. But I don’t think that’s the case here. I suspect this sat for a long period of time, the affected valves were closed and they rusted shut. When someone went to start it, the pushrods bent and the rocker arms broke before the valves moved, but that’s really a semi-educated  guess.


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## Northcoast

Great read,looking forward to following your thread.


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## Pontoon Princess

how about next February in Utah, we meet and compare the best rubber track and the best pontoon machine that tucker built? sounds like fun?


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## Blackfoot Tucker

Pontoon Princess said:


> how about next February in Utah, we meet and compare the best rubber track and the best pontoon machine that tucker built? sounds like fun?



I'm totally up for that! I haven't been to any of the snowcat get-togethers, and so I've somewhat lived in ignorance of the capabilities of other machines. I think it would be great to see how they all perform.

My snowcat buddy recently spotted a snowcat up for auction that he thought might be worth pursuing. We talked about it a bit and...he won the auction. But it's a Thiokol, not a Tucker. We may bring that to the event next February, too. That acquisition story might be worth it's own thread.


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## bobby wilkes

I have a 1644 that I will be working on in the near future !


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## Blackfoot Tucker

bobby wilkes said:


> I have a 1644 that I will be working on in the near future !



Bobby, I really like the four door cab style. Unless you need to carry more than four adults regularly, I think it's the one to have. I also like the long tracks of the 1600 series. 

Have you posted any pics of your machine on the forum? I think I'm speaking for many in suggesting that you do.

Some of the sub-projects I'll write about on this thread are more full cab related, but I think you'll find others that are applicable to two and four door machines as well.

Our other project, Thundercat, is a 1644. At some point I may start a thread on that, but I didn't take all that many photos during various parts of the build process, and photos do help in showing what you're doing, or trying to do. That is a much more exhaustive project than Snowzilla, but unfortunately a thread would be ripe for the "this thread is worthless without pictures" complaint. I was discussing the lack of pictures with my snowcat buddy, Scott and he said he had some, though he also said the photo quality was not great.


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## The Sweet Wbj1

Blackfoot Tucker said:


> unfortunately a thread would be ripe for the "this thread is worthless without pictures" complaint.



Who would dare say such a thing......


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## Pontoon Princess

wbuffetjr1 said:


> Who would dare say such a thing......



I would like to see some photos of wbuffetjr sno/snow cat, you know inquiring minds?

and my most sincere apologies if you have posted photos, just tell me the thread they are on and thank you so much, again my apologies if you have shared photos of your sno/snow cat.


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## Blackfoot Tucker

We like to take  our machines out into the Uinta mountains in Northern Utah for testing. (A bit of  trivia: the Uintas are the only mountain range in the continental US  that runs east-west. All others run north-south.) A snowcat may run okay  in the yard, but testing in actual conditions for a prolonged period  can, and does, reveal potential issues. However after several hours in  the 1643 all we did was have fun. So back to the shop and the work  began…

Here are some photos of the testing day.







Yes, this would be Scott driving...




The hydraulic pump pulley was not parallel with the pulley on the harmonic balancer. That would cause premature belt wear, and may lead to a belt coming off, so we removed the pump and pump mounting bracket, so we could straighten the bracket to correct the misalignment. While we were at it, we replaced the two V-belts that drive the hydraulic pump. Tucker recommends a belt size of 3V-400, which translates to a 3/8” wide V-belt that’s 40” long. In our opinion that's too short. Even with the hydraulic pump adjusted all the way “in”, it’s very difficult to get the belts over the pulleys. There doesn’t seem to be a good reason for such a short belt, as there’s plenty of room in the brackets for belt adjustment. We chose to install 3VX-415 belts. Those are 1 1/2” longer and the X means the belts are cogged, which tend to run cooler than solid belts. The longer belts are easier to install, and there’s still more than ample room for belt adjustment.


Tucker installs an electric auxiliary fuel pump and an in-line canister style fuel filter a few feet in front of the fuel tank. There’s also a replaceable fuel filter between the mechanical fuel pump and the carburetor. That seems redundant, and the two short lengths of rubber hose to connect that second filter to the steel fuel line are potential leak points. The existing steel line also had a large S bend in it between the second filter and the carburetor that didn’t seem to offer any benefit, so we decided to eliminate that filter, and the S bend, and install a new one-piece steel fuel line. My snowcat buddy is an absolute genius at bending tube. It always looks so easy when you see a bent line, but getting the correct amount of bend in the right location is harder than it looks. And if there’s more than one bend required (there almost always is) the subsequent bends have to be located correctly radially around the tube as well. If you don’t know what you’re doing you can create a lot of scrap. Using a hand bender you get nice even radius bends with no crimping or kinking. You can see the original line had some bends that look like they were done by hand and not with a bender. 

Here’s a photo of the original fuel line and the new one Scott bent. That doesn’t show the section with the fuel filter or the “S” bend.




This is a photo of my first Tucker’s engine, which was also a 1980 and also a 318. If you look carefully you can see the fuel filter and then follow the circuitous routing of the steel line to the carburetor. Realize all that was replaced by the one line in the above photo.


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## Snowtrac Nome

likely the push rodds bent from over reving you might want to plan on a timing chain change the weakest spot of the 318 / 360 plat form was the plastic cam timing gear used in the 70's I have seen them take out gears in as little as 40 k back in the day


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## Blackfoot Tucker

Snowtrac Nome said:


> likely the push rodds bent from over reving you might want to plan on a timing chain change the weakest spot of the 318 / 360 plat form was the plastic cam timing gear used in the 70's I have seen them take out gears in as little as 40 k back in the day



We considered that over-revving the engine may have caused the damage, but decided against that. Here's why:

Chrysler Industrial engines were used in numerous applications, one fairly common one would be to power an irrigation pump in a location with no electricity nearby. In that installation the engine would be left unattended and running at a fairly high, constant RPM for fairly long periods. If the pump broke, or there was some other type of malfunction, it's possible the load would be removed from the engine, and with lots of throttle and no load, the engine would over-rev and damage/destroy itself. To preclude that Chrysler equipped their industrial engines (at least the 318s I've seen) with King Seely brand velocity governors installed under the carburetor. 

This engine had the governor installed when I bought it. It's certainly possible someone removed it and then put it back, but we thought that somewhat unlikely.


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## Blackfoot Tucker

The rear door on this machine had some minor damage at the bottom. It looked like there had been some ice on the rear frame that the door closes against and when they shut the door against that ice, it bent the aluminum. Tucker used .063 thick, 5052 alloy aluminum sheet. 

Here’s a photo of the bottom of the rear door.



I bought a remnant piece of .080 thick 5052 aluminum to replace the damaged skin. We drilled out the rivets and removed the skin. Then we used the old skin as a pattern to drill all the rivet holes in the correct location on the new skin, and of course cut out the hole for the window and drilled a hole for the latch mechanism as well. When Tucker built machines of this era they riveted raw aluminum to raw steel. That’s a no-no, as the interaction of the dissimilar materials causes galvanic corrosion. We took the door frame and sanded all the factory paint, as well as the unpainted door skin side, and then primed it on all sides. (This paint is enough to break the bond and prevent galvanic corrosion.) 


Here’s the door frame with the aluminum skin removed and painted in primer.



Then we riveted the new skin on. We took the opportunity to improve that process as well. Tucker used steel blind rivets to fasten the aluminum door skins, roof and hood to their respective steel frames. These are basically like the commonly used POP rivet, except they’re steel, which means they’re harder to compress but substantially stronger. However the rivets are basically hollow. When you install the rivet with a rivet gun, the gun pulls on a mandrel until it breaks. Part of the mandrel is in the gun and the other part stays in the rivet. That part can (and does) fall out, leaving a nice hole for water to get in…and unsurprisingly, it does exactly that. If enough water gets inside the square tube frame member and freezes, it distorts that square tube, and can even split the tube!. We’ve had to cut out distorted frame pieces and weld in new sections of square tube to repair this water intrusion on other machines, but fortunately this one was okay.

Here are some photos of 3/4" x 3/4" square tube distorted by water intrusion. The top two photos show tube split by water intrusion that subsequently froze. 







An easy way to avoid that mess is to use closed end blind rivets. There is no hole at the back end for the mandrel to fall out of. We opted to use stainless steel closed end blind rivets which are even harder to compress than the steel versions, and they won’t rust. I will say if you try and do this with a hand operated rivet gun on more than a few rivets, your forearms will look like Popeye’s. We used an air-over-hydraulic rivet gun Scott had, (but these can be bought fairly inexpensively at Harbor Freight).


Here’s the repaired door with it’s new skin. You can see how we replicated the bend at the bottom of the door so it matches the angles on the cab.


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## The Sweet Wbj1

Gonna be one NICE machine!!


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## Blackfoot Tucker

Earlier I mentioned a patch on the top of the gas tank. That became our next task. After removing the tank from the machine we saw Tucker had done a very poor job of painting the machine at the factory. They had installed the tank before painting and the side of the gas tank close to the Tucker’s side had not been painted, nor had the side of the machine. No orange paint, not even any primer, just raw steel. Sorry to be so blunt, but that’s just plain lousy workmanship. That this machine left the factory in that condition speaks to quality control problems as well.


Here’s a photo of the gas tank before I bought the machine. The previous owner used the Tucker for access to his remote cabin. It would usually be parked in an area open to others and people had stolen gas from the tank. He had installed an old ammo can with a lock over the filler neck to stop that.



Tucker's paint buffoonery

 


Here’s a photo of the tank showing the unpainted back side and a view of the patch.



A closeup of the patch.




We drained the gasoline out of the tank and filled it with soapy water (the soap breaks up the gasoline), drained it again and refilled it to the top. (The tank being filled with water takes away the risk of explosion as the water displaces gasoline and fumes.) Then we took an angle grinder to cut away the patch and see what the underlying problem was. The large patch covered a large hole. We decided to cut out an even larger hole; from one side of the tank to the other, but lengthwise we’d make the cuts underneath where the straps that hold the tank to the machine are located. That way if there was a cosmetic flaw in our welding of the new patch it would be hidden by the straps. Once we cut the larger hole we dumped all the water out of the tank and found the inside surprisingly rusty and a whole bunch of what can only be called crap inside.


Here’s the part we cut off and the large hole.



Nice rust!



Some of what we found inside.


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## sno-drifter

Guess I am a little late to the party but the push rod/ rocker arm failure looks very much like a hydraulic issue, i.e. liquid in that cylinder.


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## Cidertom

Blackfoot Tucker said:


> and a whole bunch of what can only be called crap inside.
> Some of what we found inside.
> View attachment 100193


  My ST's gas tank was coated inside and looked like that.  Coming off in sheets and plugging the fuel filter faster than I could clean it.


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## The Sweet Wbj1

I guess I should come clean. I am buying this beast from Blackfoot Tucker. I had quite a LONG and discouraging search for a decent 1643/1644 with a blade with no luck. I finally convinced Blackfoot to build a blade and add it to this machine for me. Hoping it's ready for this Winter. Can't wait!


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## PJL

Great,  you will know it's history.


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## Blackfoot Tucker

sno-drifter said:


> Guess I am a little late to the party but the push rod/ rocker arm failure looks very much like a hydraulic issue, i.e. liquid in that cylinder.




That's a VERY interesting theory! I'll mention it to my snowcat buddy and see what he thinks. It certainly explains the damage, but I wonder how that liquid got in (and what it may have been)?


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## Track Addict

That orange kewl aide can be tricky and will work it’s way into mysterious places.....

Generally it just bends people perception of sno cats


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## Blackfoot Tucker

Now that the cat is out of the bag as far as Snowzilla's future owner goes, I'll mention that there are a fair number of parts to this project. Some, like the ones I've detailed so far, are fairly simple. But some others are quite involved. This is the fourth Tucker I've owned and as my snowcat buddy, Scott and I have worked on different machines our knowledge base has grown. This machine will benefit from that as we'll incorporate a number of upgrades that we feel are worthwhile. In another thread I had mentioned we had modified the windshield wiper system on Thundercat. We'll make those same changes to Snowzilla. We also made some upgrades to the hydraulic system's plumbing configuration and to the pump itself. Those were done in concert with a steering system upgrade, which will also be featured. And we'll be adding a six-way blade to Snowzilla. Stay tuned; this will be fun!


Back to the project:



For some reason the sides of the tank were bowed inward a fair amount, too. The tanks Tucker used were solidly made and IIRC they used 13 gauge steel, which is pretty thick. We wanted to straighten the sides before welding in the new top, but they had quite an attitude and did not cooperate despite several attempts. To win that battle, we made a baffle for the inside of the tank that keeps the sides straight, yet allows fuel to flow easily from one side of the baffle to the other. Because the gas gauge float arm is fairly long we couldn’t weld the baffle in the center of the tank, but rather it had to be toward the end away from the sending unit, so as not to interfere with the float arm's range of travel. Once that was installed, Scott welded in the new top. I got to grind the welds and then blend them with the existing tank. It turned out very nicely.







This is another view of the top but also a better view of the side where we attached the baffle. You can see the round heat spots where the baffle was welded on the inside.






 The next order of business was replacing the cheesy-looking, aftermarket auxiliary fuel pump. We had a spare fuel pump we removed from our long-term project Tucker, aka: Thundercat, that would fit this machine perfectly. We made the swap, and of course when the previous owner installed the ill-fitting pump he somewhat butchered the gas tank to fuel pump steel fuel line. Scott once again used his tube bending skills and we replaced the fuel line. While he was bending tube I replaced the filter element in the canister style fuel filter. I don’t have any photos of either of these project elements.



At this point we had done the majority of the easy fixes and now we were moving into more serious stuff. The Tucker xx43 body style has two bucket seats in front, and opposed bench seats in back along the side walls. Tucker installs what I call a bulkhead behind the front seats, and we think the design is, in a word, terrible. The bulkhead is essentially a wall that effectively divides the cab into front and back sections. But the structural members that comprise the bulkhead aren’t against the perimeter of the cab but rather are several inches inside. The top bar is about three inches below the roof, and if you’re tall, it’s perfectly positioned to smack the back of your head on. If the bulkhead design has any redeeming features, I don’t know what they are. The third photo at the beginning of the thread shows the bulkhead. Here’s another view (we had started peeling the carpet off the roof).






Several years ago we took a Tucker 1642 and re-cabbed it, changing it from a two door to a three door xx43 style cab. When we were building the cab we chose to create a roll bar that hugged the perimeter of the cab sides and roof, and make the cab interior one big area, so you could move from front to back if desired. Note: This cab was only 48" wide. Snowzilla's cab is 52".

Here’s a photo of that project's roll bar. 







Another view. You’ll note tabs welded on all the inside corners of the roll bar braces. The tabs are for attaching upholstered cushions.





A view of the corner after the rear upholstery was installed.


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## Blackfoot Tucker

We decided to remove the bulkhead on the 1643 and make a new roll bar similar to the one we previously built. The first steps in this process were removing the roof-top carrier and roof-mounted light. Then we drilled out all the rivets and lifted the roof panel off. Once that was gone, the bulkhead was cut out and tossed aside. 


Here’s a photo with the roof removed. That white stuff is galvanic corrosion, which you get when you put two dissimilar metals next to each other with nothing to prevent a chemical bond between. It doesn’t take much, just a quick shot of primer will suffice, but Tucker didn’t do it.





On the earlier project we welded in a new frame cross member perpendicular to the outside longitudinal frame members and flush with the top of them. That made for a flat interior floor. Another questionable feature of the bulkhead design is the bottom structural member is welded to the top of the outside longitudinal frame members. Originally we didn’t want to mess with the floor, and were going to weld our bar on top of that, but decided the extra time to do it right and not have a two inch piece of square tubing above the floor was worth it. That meant removing the floor section under the front seats, as well as the front parts of the rear floor system. Once those were gone, Scott cut out the last vestigial part of the bulkhead. We then cut a piece of 2” x 2” square tube and he welded it in place between the outside frame members so the floor would be flat. Now came the hard part; making the roll bar so it fit perfectly, and with radii at the top that matched the curve of the roof. Not only would the roll bar be a structural member giving support to the cab but it would give shape to the roof as well.


Here’s a photo of the perpendicular square tube I mentioned. It’s not a great photo, but you can see where the original tube was cut away from the outside frame member and the two vertical square tubes on the lower inner frame that add support. Scott had to cut those lower because our square tube sits 2” lower.





 Scott is a certified welder, and has been for over three decades. For the roll bar, we chose 2” x 2” square tubing with a 3/16” wall thickness. The roof radius at the sides is about 5”. There’s no way you could bend square tubing of that size in such a tight a radius without major crimping or kinking, even assuming you had a bender that had the muscle to do it. That meant cutting and welding the corners to create the correct outside radius at the two top corners. When we did the previous roll bar, Scott cut five pie-shaped pieces out of the square tube for each corner radius, then he easily bent the tube into position and welded up the cuts. Though the radius had some short segments, it really worked pretty well and it looked great. This time he had another plan, and to be fair, it turned out even better. 



He had three pieces of tube; one for each side and one for the top. The ends where the corner radii were located were carefully cut, and some pieces removed, so they fit together properly. Then he welded them all together, and a fair amount of grinding and welding later, they looked great. The top of the roof has a slight bow so he took the bar and put in in his hydraulic press to form the bow. There were a couple of bend marks so I used some body filler to smooth that out. Some more sanding and a coat of primer later and it was ready for installation. The inside of the Tucker’s cab has some fairly light gauge frame members to support the sheet metal exterior. Because our roll bar was made to fit against the perimeter we had to cut notches out of those frame members to fit around our new roll bar. Once in place it would all be welded together. We left the vertical legs of the roll bar slightly long so we could put it in place and get the height measurement perfect, even if it meant taking it back out to trim off a little bit of the legs. Sure enough we had to trim about 1/4” off the legs. No problem, but the in-and-out process did a nice job of scratching the primer.
 

Pics of the process. Here’s the way Scott did the radius at the top corners. 






The finished bar on the shop floor.


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## Blackfoot Tucker

The sidewalls where the bar will fit after cutting out sheet metal supporting members. (The backsides of the four rivets you see were removed and the holes welded closed before we installed the new roll bar.)



The cut out sections illustrating unnecessary rust. Tucker could have used a weld-through primer on the cab frame before attaching the steel skin. That would have prevented this rust.



The new bar welded in place. You can also see the perpendicular tube I mentioned earlier which will permit a flat floor.



A view from the back.



And with the support braces and front seats installed and the roof resting in position. We intend to do the rear upholstery in a similar fashion to the other machine but the tabs have not been welded to the braces yet. Tucker for some reason welded the dome light support brackets to the left side of center. We have no idea why, and think the lights are more functional and look better centered. After this photo was taken we relocated them to the center of the roof supporting framework.


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## Blackfoot Tucker

I've been remiss in not providing updates in a more timely fashion. We have been doing some work on Thundercat and Snowzilla this summer. We decided to put Thundercat's reassembly on the back burner - so we can (hopefully) get Snowzilla wrapped up for use at Christmastime by it's future owner. (Right now we're actually working on Snowzilla's front blade project, which will be detailed in later installments of this thread). The part below was completed previously.

After getting the new roll bar installed we had to reinstall the roof. One would logically think it would be easy, after all we really just drilled out all the original rivets so shouldn’t putting it back consist of putting it in place with new rivets? Well, it wasn’t that simple: the holes in the aluminum roof panel and the holes in the Tucker cab frame were somehow out of alignment. When we install a riveted panel we like to put a bead of an adhesive automotive seam sealer between the skin and the Tucker frame members. In addition to adding strength to the connection, it also adds another measure of protection to prevent galvanic corrosion between the dissimilar aluminum skin and steel frame. But with the alignment issues we weren’t sure how long we would be fighting to get the installation done, and if it cured before we were finished, that would make for a big mess, so no adhesive.   

With the roof sitting in place and very few holes in alignment, Scott deduced the cab and the roof frame were slightly tweaked. We installed a ratchet binder with strap (the heavy-duty type you use to secure a load to a trailer) to the upper right rear of the cab and to the upper left front windshield post. By adding tension to the strap, and quite a bit of tension at that, we were able to persuade the cab that it was in it’s best interest to cooperate. Then we were able to install the rivets in the holes on the sides, as well as the front and rear before we went back and started the rivet-setting process with Scotts air-over-hydraulic rivet gun. We finished by installing the rivets on top down the center of the roof. We riveted the roof panel to the newly installed roll bar and added one additional rivet to the factory roof support over the middle of the rear cab on each side. Of course we used the stainless steel closed end blind rivets I mentioned in an earlier post. Sorry, no photos of this process.  

Though the Tucker came with an open topped aluminum box on the right side of the rear cab it was quite narrow, which limited it's utility, and it was completely open to the elements. So, though it could be used to store some items they were limited in size and totally exposed, both to potential theft and the effects of weather. Here's a photo taken the day I went to look at the machine.



Our customer preferred a much nicer, and appreciably larger lockable and weather-tight box. Scott and I removed the existing box and the previously installed supporting pieces of welded steel angle (they looked somewhat weak anyway). We then installed some new outriggers in a similar fashion to the way Tucker supports the gas tank on the opposite side. We wanted our outriggers to match the factory gas tank supports, as though they had been factory installed. That meant using the same size square tubing. Conveniently, Tucker used the same size on their bulkhead frame so it turns out that it was good for something after all! We harvested the required square tubing from the goofy bulkhead. It looks like Tucker welds the outriggers to the frame first and then cuts the cab skin so it can be lowered down over the supports before that cab side is welded to the cab frame. In this fashion there's no cab skin below the mounts. We chose to cut out square holes for the outriggers, which means there is cab skin below our outriggers. It's a slightly more finished look, even if it's different than the factory way. They also bevel the cuts and weld steel plate over the ends, which gives a nicer and finished look. We matched that factory procedure.



Here’s the outside. Scott welded one tab (pictured) on the front outrigger, but we decided that it made sense to position the box in place and make sure that the locations for through-bolts will work with the outrigger locations before welding any more tabs.



And the inside. You can see two spots in the skin that we welded closed. Those welds will be cleaned up.


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## Blackfoot Tucker

Bouncing around a bit as far as modifications/upgrades... 

With Thundercat we completely modified the hydraulic system, but it was a huge expenditure of time. That wouldn’t be economically viable with Snowzilla, but some aspects of those upgrades are worthwhile, and I’ll start by discussing one we're in the process of doing. If you look at the bottom of a Tucker hydraulic tank you’ll see a Tee fitting threaded into the hydraulic tank. The front leg of the Tee has a barbed fitting and a fairly large diameter hose that runs to the hydraulic pump as the fluid supply line. Here’s a photo of the installation on Snowzilla.






If you look at the back of the Tee, you’ll see a threaded reducing bushing, as well as a nipple, a 90º elbow and a barbed fitting with another hose attached. That’s return fluid. Scott pointed out the return fluid can go straight to the pump without being filtered. Does that sound like a good design, potentially recirculating unfiltered hydraulic fluid? It didn’t to us…so another upgrade idea was hatched.


The device that the filter threads into is called a filter head. One can buy those with different configurations, and naturally different units have different specifications. Doing some Internet research, at higher engine RPMs the Tucker hydraulic pump’s volumetric output can exceed the filtering capacity of the existing filtration system. With that knowledge, it made sense to add another filter head and filter. That meant either fabricating a new tank, (which we did with Thundercat) or modifying the existing one. Because we had made a new hydraulic tank for Thundercat, we had the original one to work with. We could modify that tank and install it on Snowzilla later. The factory tank positions the filter in the center of the tank side-to-side.





There wasn’t enough room to add another filter, and have it look right. And we couldn’t cut out the existing threaded fitting, patch the hole and weld in two new fittings - and have that look acceptable, either. (The factory tank’s front panel was already distorted by Tucker's welding process.) We decided to cut the front of the tank off, as well as the top panel and the bent flange that bolts to the firewall. Here’s a photo of the front side showing the fitting. Unfortunately the photo doesn't show how distorted that panel is.





And the back side of the same panel. However, once we cut the tank apart it revealed what Scott (as a certified welder) said was a questionable practice. Tucker welded a malleable iron fitting, (a 90º elbow) as the means of holding the filter head assembly, and added a short length of threaded pipe on the back side. The filler neck is located in the center of the top panel, which is above this fitting, and the elbow and pipe are to direct the return fluid away from the filler neck debris screen. Scott says welding malleable iron is not a good practice due to embrittlement. 




We cut out new pieces of steel, bent them accordingly and then Scott welded those to the existing tank. The welds were ground and sanded to create smother corners. We used a threaded steel coupling cut in half and Scott welded the two pieces in with minimal distortion.


Here’s our tank (after we painted it) with the filter heads installed. Notice how the corners are smooth rather than the rough unfinished welds on the factory tank.








(We still need to add the short piece of bent steel to add support to the filter head units.


Every Tucker I’ve bought has used the same basic hydraulic filters. Different brands certainly, but they all interchange. There’s not a space limitation under the filter, so why not install a longer filter? The larger filter has more fluid capacity and more filtration media, so it should last longer. It struck us this was a worthwhile upgrade... at almost no cost. What’s not to like about that?


I bought some longer Donaldson brand filters and the part number (which can be interchanged with many other brands) is: 565059. They're 7.87 inches long as opposed to the stock filter length of 5.35 inches. Mathematically, almost 50% larger. 






The modified tank will be installed in concert with some other hydraulic system upgrades (featured in later posts). Those upgrades include hydraulic pump modifications to increase the pump output volume and pump output pressure, as well as the installation of a dual cross-port relief valve in the steering system.


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## Blackfoot Tucker

Here's the start of the front blade project. There are a fair number of components involved that make up the entire blade system, and there’s considerable cutting and welding necessary to fabricate the various parts. For some of the pieces, we relied on others to produce them, and of course there are delays in getting those. We’re trying to get the machine (and the blade) done, and so while waiting for some sub-components we move along to another part of the job to keep the project moving forward. Unfortunately that means the presentation of the blade aspects of the project in this thread will not be as sequentially pure as I’d like. (That’s another way of saying I’ll be bouncing around a bit.)


The Snowzilla project is being done somewhat simultaneously with the reassembly of our other Tucker, Thundercat, which left the factory with a six-way blade. Some aspects of the factory design we’ll replicate, and others we’ll make some changes to. The in-cab control valve is installed between the front seats, right next to where Tucker installs the parking brake handle. With the blade option, Tucker welds a bracket to the frame that the valve attaches to with three bolts, and they also weld the parking brake handle mechanism's mounting bracket to the same valve mounting bracket. Thundercat had been disassembled for sand blasting and painting, and before we reattached the valve during reassembly we made a tracing of the welded-on valve mounting bracket for use on Snowzilla. We used the tracing and Scott’s plasma cutter to cut out the bracket. The 90º angled cuts at the lower right corner of the bracket (below) are where it fits over one of the Tucker’s 2” x 2” square tube frame members. It’s welded along both of those straight segments.



The six-way blade project requires an in-cab method of controlling the hydraulic functions of the blade. We located and purchased (after a fairly extensive search) a used 6-way valve at a heavy equipment salvage yard. The valve was from a John Deere bulldozer and unsurprisingly it had a lot of use over the years. That means the linkage mechanism was worn and “sloppy”. Scott and I wanted to tighten it up and eliminate a lot of the play in the various points of movement The T-handle itself inserts through a machined hole in a linkage mechanism casting, and both the handle’s steel shaft and the hole itself were worn significantly. A previous owner had installed a thin bushing to take up some of the slop, but it too was badly worn. We removed the worn out bushing and pressed in a new one made from SAE 841 powdered metal bronze and a grade 8 bolt for the shaft repair. Here’s a photo of the old bushing and the section we removed from the T-handle. I put the items on graph paper so you could get an idea of the wear.

Scott cut the head off the bolt and then cut the shaft to the proper length for the bolt. He then used an angle grinder to bevel the shaft to a point on about a 45º angle.  He clamped the bolt and the handle’s shaft into a piece of 90º angle as a fixture, and he TiG welded them together - completely filling in the beveled area. A little grinding and sanding later and voila…a repaired T-handle! I took the linkage components home for media blasting and priming. The inside diameter of the newly installed bushing required a little sanding with fine sandpaper to very slightly enlarge it for proper clearance with the repaired T-handle. The clearance between the handle and the bushing is necessary as the tilt function of the blade is actuated by rotating the T-handle. (Pulling the handle back raises the blade, pushing forward lowers the blade and moving the T-handle side to side angles the blade left or right accordingly.)




Scott cut the head off the bolt and then cut the shaft to the proper length for the bolt. He then used an angle grinder to bevel the shaft to a point on about a 45º angle.  He clamped the bolt and the handle’s shaft into a piece of 90º angle as a fixture, and he TiG welded them together - completely filling in the beveled area. A little grinding and sanding later and voila…a repaired T-handle! I took the linkage components home for media blasting and priming. The inside diameter of the newly installed bushing required a little sanding with fine sandpaper to very slightly enlarge it for proper clearance with the repaired T-handle. The clearance between the handle and the bushing is necessary as the tilt function of the blade is actuated by rotating the T-handle. (Pulling the handle back raises the blade, pushing forward lowers the blade and moving the T-handle side to side angles the blade left or right accordingly.)




The  rest of the linkage assembly is held together with roll pins (also  called spring pins). Some fit tightly - if no movement is desired, while  others fit tightly on one linkage component and loosely on the other;  to allow for movement. 

Unfortunately  on many component interfaces the loose fit was too loose or "sloppy".  So we sourced all new roll pins with some slightly larger ones (metric  dimensions). Our plan is to replace all the roll pins, and in some  locations, drill out the various components to use the larger roll pins.  When finished, the linkage mechanism should be a lot tighter; hopefully  like new!


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## Blackfoot Tucker

The basic six-way blade setup on Tuckers of this vintage is pretty similar. A 1600 series machine has longer tracks than either a 1500 or 1300 series machine, and the blade must be positioned further in front accordingly. Tucker accomplishes this by using a longer A frame from the axle mounted frame to the blade. Surprisingly to us, it’s not really a new design for the application, but rather they essentially take a 1500 series frame and lengthen it 13”, and they install a center support member on which to install the fitting for the hydraulic lift cylinder. (That extra member is necessary to maintain the lift cylinder’s geometry.) Here’s a photo of a 1500 series frame. Note where the lift cylinder attaches in front. Note also how the frame uses pins for attachment in the rear. (That issue will be discussed later.)



Here’s a 1600 series frame. Note the additional frame member where the lift cylinder attaches in front. You can also see the rear of that frame and how Tucker lengthened it. 



Snowzilla left the factory with a Warn 8,000 lb winch positioned in front, and slightly below, the lower front grille. On a machine with a front blade, that spot is used by the axle mounted frame (see the first photo in this post), so we would have a conflict if we used the factory axle mounted frame configuration. We decided to construct the axle mounted frame longer, to position the lift cylinder bracket in front of the winch. Coincidentally that distance of 13” is exactly the length difference of the the 1500 series A frame when compared with a 1600 series A frame. So we built the A frame like a 1500 series, but we added the additional center support member because we felt it would be beneficial in transferring the forces from the blade to the Tucker when plowing. The blade itself will be the same distance in front of the machine as it is with the factory design.

I’ve mentioned this previously, but I think it’s worthwhile to say again, while Scott has no formal engineering education, his more than 40 years as a welder and fabricator have given him a tremendous amount of real world experience in seeing what works and what doesn’t. He has many customers bring in various items for repair that he has to fix, and often in addition to repairing the damage, he ends up adding reinforcement so it won’t break again. For example, last winter a customer brought in a pretty darn stout trailer (25 ton capacity, three axles, each with dual wheels) used to transport paving equipment. Though the load was less than what the trailer was rated for, the way they loaded the trailer (placement of the weight) literally broke the frame in several places. Scott had to remove the front axle assembly and cut off the axle mounting brackets for access, and then still cut parts of the frame apart to repair the cracks (plural) in the frame, and then add additional frame members of his own design for reinforcement. This was not some home-made, scabbed together trailer, either. It was made by a large and well known heavy equipment trailer manufacturer. Presumably it had been carefully designed and engineered, yet it failed without being overloaded. 

Scott felt strongly the Tucker design was overbuilt by a significant factor, and could be lightened somewhat, yet still have more than adequate strength. The factory A frame design used 3” x 2” rectangular tubing with a wall thickness of 1/4”. We used the same tube with a thinner wall of 3/16”, which should be 25% lighter in weight.

Here’s a photo of our frame in a partially finished state.  If you look closely on the frame you’ll see some small arrows made with a soapstone. When you weld steel it typically causes the steel to shrink. Scott measured the frame for squareness and accuracy after tacking the pieces together prior to fully welding them. He wanted to strategically plan his welds to make the shrinkage work in our favor dimensionally, and so he marked the steel by the welds with arrows to indicate the optimal direction for each weld. It’s a small detail, and one most people wouldn’t bother with, but in our opinion it’s that attention to detail that separates the well done projects from the rest.




Not pictured is the sleeve in front of the rectangular tube with a little surface rust. That’s 4” x 3” rectangular tube (1/4" wall thickness) and Tucker basically welds a section of heavy wall steel tube vertically at the end with a hole for a 1” bolt, which is what the front blade pivots about when the angle function is used. A very good friend of mine back in Vermont is machining the steel tube for us. He’s going to use higher carbon steel than Tucker used, which will be more resistant to wear. Hinge points like lubrication to prevent wear, and to make the hinge action smooth. I’m sure Tucker lubricated the bolt during the assembly process, but if one subsequently wants to re grease it, you would have to remove the bolt to do so. We thought it made sense to drill a hole radially from the outside into the center bore and thread the outside of the hole to add a grease zerk. Not difficult, not time consuming, not expensive, but worthwhile; and one of those little “details” I mentioned above.


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## sno-drifter

Nice work BFT. Many do not take the time or know how to do it right. It pays off in the end and leaves a nice signature of your work. Those who want to skip steps get the reward of doing it over again. Thank you for taking the time to share your work and knowledge.


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## Blackfoot Tucker

sno-drifter said:


> Nice work BFT. Many do not take the time or know how to do it right. It pays off in the end and leaves a nice signature of your work. Those who want to skip steps get the reward of doing it over again. Thank you for taking the time to share your work and knowledge.




Thanks for the kind words. Truthfully, Scott is the brains and talent in our duo, and I'm the guy with the bonehead ideas. He is also one of the genuinely nicest guys I know.


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## sno-drifter

I wood be suspect with a name like that? But seriously, I just call em like I see um. The ideas are precious and to do the follow through is also an important element.


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## Blackfoot Tucker

The blade system is made up of several different components; the blade, the A frame (which has a pivoting frame at the front), the axle mounted frame and the support frame, which is welded to the Tucker. We wanted to keep the overall project moving forward, and so put the A frame aside and concentrated next on the axle mounted frame. We'll get back to the A frame after the machined sleeve arrives.

The factory axle mounted frame was constructed with 3” x 2” tubing with 5/16” wall thickness. That too will be lighter in that we used 1/4” wall tubing. Here’s an in-process photo of our axle mounted frame. The long, top and bottom parallel legs are 13” longer than the factory Tucker legs, and you’ll recall that was to position the hinge points for the A frame in front of the winch. Those parallel legs are one piece. For some reason Tucker made them from two pieces, and we don’t know why. The mounts where it bolts to the bottom of the axle are also being made by my friend back in Vermont, and they’ll be positioned by the back of the “X” frame members. If you look at that frame and think of the forces it has to deal with, it becomes apparent the welded and angled joint behind the “X” is the weak point. Tucker reinforced the frame by welding pieces of 1/4” steel plate on the top and bottom of that joint, overlapping the tube several inches in both directions. They also welded some 1/4” steel plate vertically across the inside of the angle for more reinforcement, and they added some 1 1/2” square tube underneath!  Holy Overkill, Batman!





We thought of a simpler way, that we think looks better, takes less time and is more than strong enough. The other issue is the axle mounted frame is attached to the underside of the axle, so it hangs underneath and reduces ground clearance. The square tube reinforcement welded to the bottom of the outside frame members reduces that clearance even further. We took some 3” x 3” square tube and mitered the ends to intersect with the back of the “X” leg and the rear angled leg. Then its welded along all sides. We also added the square tube perpendicular to the long frame members in a similar fashion as Tucker did. (If you’re wondering why some pieces have a little surface rust while others don’t, it’s because steel is usually sold in specific lengths. We bought a 20’ stick of 3” x 2” square tube, and that wasn’t long enough. Scott had a remnant from another job (dimensionally identical) and we used part of that, rather than purchase another 20’ when we really wanted about 18”. Yes, one can buy shorter segments from a company such as Metals Supermarket, but the cost is painfully high.) 


Another item to point out is the appearance of the welds. Scott has the capability, (equipment and skill) to do various types of welding processes. Typically he uses a MIG welder (Metal Inert Gas), but sometimes he uses stick (or arc). If it’s small detailed work, or a material like aluminum or stainless steel, he’ll use TIG (Tungsten Inert Gas). Yet another process is called dual shield. That uses both a flux core wire and a shielding gas, and that’s what Scott used on the A frame. Rectangular steel tube has rounded corners, rather than sharp, square corners. The thicker the tube, in terms of its wall thickness, the greater the radius of the corners. Thus 1/4” wall tubing has a larger gap at the radius intersection than does 3/16” thick tubing. That gap obviously has to be filled during the welding process.. Often Scott will make two passes; a “root” pass and a “cover" pass. With the A frame, Scott made the root pass with a MIG welder and the cover pass with his dual shield. The dual shield process is very strong and allows the welder to put down quite a bit of material quickly. As I mentioned, the wire has a flux core and that residue has to be removed after welding. But the weld itself looks a little different.


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## Blackfoot Tucker

Getting away from the blade project briefly to discuss yet-to-be-installed upgrades to the steering and hydraulic systems. I'll get back to blade progress soon.

When Scott and I took Thundercat out for its first tests it performed very well, but we uncovered some issues with the steering system. Before coming up with our own solution, I called Tucker and spoke with Jeff Godard to pick his brain. We subsequently made these changes to Thundercat, but Scott and I thought Snowzilla would benefit as well, so we'll incorporate them when we install the modified hydraulic tank and the hydraulic components for the six-way blade.
 
A cardinal rule of Tucker operation is DON’T turn the steering wheel unless the machine is moving - as you'll potentially over-stress the steering system components. Our problem was that even when adhering to this rule, at slow speeds it was very difficult to get the machine turning in the desired direction. At higher speeds it was fine.

The steering system uses a Vickers hydraulic pump that supplies pressure to a Char-Lynn steering control valve (called an “orbitrol”). The valve is controlled by the steering wheel. Inputs to the valve send fluid to a hydraulic cylinder which actuates tie rods to both the front and rear turn tables, moving them in opposite directions. (If you turn the wheel left, the front tracks turns left and the rear tracks turns right, and vice versa.)

Jeff told me the current Tucker configuration is different than my 1980 machine, though the differences are not huge. Then and now, Tucker uses Vickers V20P hydraulic pumps. According to the numbers stamped on our pump, it was setup to produce 11 GPM (at 1,200 RPM) and it flows 4 GPM through the priority valve rear cover to the steering system. Pump pressure was originally set at 1,000 PSI by Vickers, though Jeff said Tucker would have changed the pressure to 1,600 PSI, based upon having long tracks with the front blade option. (Note: Snowzilla’s pump configuration is different, as it doesn’t have the factory six-way blade. IIRC, the pump's output volume is 8 GPM.)

The current Tucker production machine of roughly the same size, and with a front blade, uses a 13 GPM pump, 6 GPM out the priority valve and output pressure has been raised to 2,200 PSI. Tucker also installs a dual cross-port hydraulic relief valve in the system as a safeguard to protect against overpressure. The increased priority valve flow will make the steering quicker, and the increased pressure will reduce the steering effort required. Tucker installs the dual cross-port relief valve between the steering control valve and the steering cylinder. The relief valves are made by several manufacturers. I chose a Prince brand unit due to price and availability. (Here’s a link: http://www.princehyd.com/Products/Hydraulic-Valves/Relief/Model-DRV) 

It came preset at 2,000 PSI, though Jeff Godard recommended it be set at 2,300 PSI. We tried adjusting the pressure with a hydraulic Porta Power unit, but ours didn’t develop enough pressure. I took the valve to a hydraulic repair company in SLC. They used their test bench and reset the pressures to 2,300 PSI.

The pump itself is assembled with various components to achieve certain parameters. It's relatively easy to change some parts and completely reconfigure the pump. Here's a link to a Vickers publication with excellent exploded view diagrams and information:
http://drc.hyd.com/public/E/eaton/d...es/V20 -11 -12 -22 Parts M-2004-S 1998-03.pdf 

On page two, in the upper left, you'll see a diagram of the priority valve rear cover. Increasing the volume from the priority valve is done by increasing the size of the orifice. (Flow volumes for different orifice sizes are listed on page three.) Pressure is increased (or decreased) by changing the number and/or thickness of shims just inside the "363889 plug”. Output volume is changed by changing the ring, as well as the rotor and vanes. You can buy a "cartridge kit" which has the required parts. However you’ll note from the diagram there are different “pin” part numbers. The cartridge kit doesn’t include those, so they must be purchased separately. Rings for higher volumes are thicker than ones for less flow, and the bolts (called screws in the literature) may be longer depending on the ring size changes. Parts from Vickers are obscenely high in price, but there are aftermarket parts available at substantially lower prices. (If I remember correctly, I was quoted almost $400.00 for a cartridge kit from Vickers but I bought an aftermarket one for roughly a hundred bucks.)
 
Here’s a link to another Vickers publication that has more information and overhaul procedures not contained in the link above:
 http://www.eaton.com/ecm/groups/public/@pub/@eaton/@hyd/documents/content/pll_1572.pdf

We removed the pump and disassembled it to make the modifications. The literature in the second link describes priority valve operation in Section E, and makes reference to "orifice O in figure 5", as well as other references to "orifice O". One would think there would be such an item in the diagram, but one would be wrong! If you look on the inside of the priority valve cover, the elusive "orifice O" is the smaller diameter hole in the casting. (See photo below)



Working with the priority valve cover, we removed the plug, shims, spring and piston. From the Vickers manual table 3, the orifice size for a 4 GPM flow volume should be .139, and for a flow rate of 6 GPM the orifice should be .170.  Surprisingly, our orifice was already at .170!  So we reassembled the pump with the new ring, new rotor and vanes and new pins. We were able to use the same bolts to hold the pump assembly together. When we disassembled the pump there were two shims of .016 each. A later pump design has a spring guide between the spring and the shims. I decided to update our pump with the spring guide, and as it was about twice as thick as the shims we removed, we installed the spring guide with no shims as a starting point in the process of shimming the spring to achieve the desired 2,200 PSI. We got lucky as when we installed the pump and checked the pressure it was spot on 2,200!

Speaking of that, you verify the system pressure by turning the steering wheel all the way to a stop and then reading the pressure on a gauge. The gauge is something you’ll have to temporarily install in either of the hydraulic lines from the steering control valve to the steering cylinder.

We installed the dual cross port relief valve by welding two small pieces of flat bar to the Tucker frame, and drilling holes through them for the valve itself to bolt to. You will have to either purchase new hydraulic lines, or have the existing lines modified to add fittings to attach to the relief valve and account for the length of the valve assembly. 

After the modifications were complete we took the Tucker out into several feet of fresh Utah powder for testing. The modified steering system worked flawlessly, and I can recommend the upgrade heartily. I will add however, the volumes and pressures discussed above were for a long track machine with a factory blade. If your machine has a different configuration, such as shorter tracks and/or no blade, your requirements are likely different.


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## The Sweet Wbj1

Awesome updates! Thanks so much. Love it!


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## Blackfoot Tucker

Back to the blade portions of the project...

The blade skin, or moldboard, is made from 1/8” steel plate. It would be sheared to size and then bent to our specifications in a press brake. There’s a company literally less than a mile from Scott’s shop that makes snowplows for various state highway departments. They also make cutting edges, and I have previously purchased those, custom made for my applications. I thought they would be a great place to get the moldboard and the cutting edge made - as we don’t have the equipment for either. Unfortunately, it didn’t go according to plan.

I should point out the factory Tucker blade that came on Thundercat was made in three pieces for transport legality. The center section is 8’ wide and there are two bolt-on wing pieces which are 9” wide each, giving an overall width of 9’6”. We’re making Snowzilla’s blade for a customer who does not plan on transporting the machine regularly, so we’re making it one piece that's 9’6”. It will be both stronger and less expensive; the elusive win-win! 

Back in early June Scott and I had made a CAD drawing of the blade and its cutting edge (really Scott, I pretty much watched and offered some harassment to “help” him) to the plow company with dimensions for both. I was told I would have it by the end of June. I called toward the end of July (didn’t want to be a pest) and it wasn’t done. Evidently the shop foreman needed a dimension for the depth of the bend across the arc (and I guess he couldn’t take the initiative to contact me). We had specified the radius of bend, but he wanted the depth measurement. Three more weeks pass and I call again. Still not done. I’m promised it will be done that Friday. Scott and I go to pick it up late on Friday afternoon. They can’t find the cutting edge and the blade looks terrible. The specified depth was 2 7/8”, and it should be that depth across the entire blade. But the middle of the blade (lengthwise) was almost flat. What exactly is the point of a blueprint if the dimensions are ignored? I went back inside and said it wouldn’t do. The company’s owner promised they’d correct it immediately, and deliver the blade later in the day.

In fact they did deliver both the blade and the missing cutting edge later that afternoon, and the blade looked pretty good, though we didn’t measure it for accuracy. Shortly after the Labor Day holiday we brought the moldboard into the shop to start our part of constructing the blade by adding various pieces for reinforcement plus “shoes" and other parts for the tilting function. At this point we discovered the re-bent blade may have been re-bent, but it still didn’t match the drawing. Remember that 2 7/8” dimension? Well one end of the blade was correct, but the middle of the blade had a depth of 3 5/8” and the other end was 3 1/2”. Scott thought we might be able to repair it ourselves, but my attitude was they had been given the job, they were months late, their product didn’t match the drawing, and they had been paid. Let them fix it! 

A phone call to the owner left me stunned. “The dies on our press brake are worn out and that’s the best we can do. If it won’t work for you, I’ll refund your money for the blade.” Wow! What came to mind was the famous quote about the craftsman blaming his tools. Evaluating where we stood, essentially three months had been wasted. How long would it take to get another firm to produce a moldboard for us? (The cutting edge was perfectly okay.) We decided to spend some time and try and repair the blade. If it worked: Great! If we failed: we were out a few hours of our time. 

Scott has a machine called an Ironworker in his shop that’s probably 50 years old, plus or minus. It has a single hydraulic ram and one uses different dies to perform different tasks. Scott has a set of Vee dies that could work like a press brake, but his dies are only 5’ long and the blade was 9’ 6”, so we’d have to make multiple passes, trying to add a little bend. In his shop for repair he had a huge barrel drill bit used to bore a hole about 4’ in diameter in the ground. We could use its substantial weight suspended from the shop’s crane to squash bend out of the moldboard, and the Ironworker to add bend. Maybe not exactly the best tools for the job, but potentially workable.

That’s what we did. Scott ran the Ironworker, while I and a mutual friend of ours, John, moved the moldboard into position for each bend. Before doing any bending we used a soapstone to mark the existing bend points and labeled them from "A" to "O" in different points on the blade. That way John and I could make certain we had the blade positioned correctly for Scott to add a little tweak.





After a few hours of adding bend here, and taking bend out there, we had the blade pretty close. The 2 7/8” dimension was somewhat arbitrary, but the bend radius needed to be fairly consistent along the entire length of the blade, and we achieved that. I hate the phrase “close enough”, but the reality of our repair is that while not perfect, it is close enough, and a whale of a lot better than the so-called "professionals" had done!

Now it was time to cut and weld some steel and make it into a Tucker-worthy blade!

The main structural support is a piece of steel bent into a square C that’s welded lengthwise along the blade, below the center of the blade’s arc. Scott thought it would be more cost effective (meaning equally strong, yet less expensive) to purchase a length of 4” square tubing (same 1/8” wall thickness) and cut off one side. The length of the leg at the top of the C is shorter than the one at the bottom due to the arc. (If we made them the same length, the blade wouldn’t be positioned at the correct angle when attached to the A frame.) Scott decided to use his plasma cutter and took some welding wire and bent a circle to tightly hold the tip of the plasma torch, and then a straight length followed by two 90º bends to position the torch at the correct dimension for the cuts. (Very difficult to explain…look at the photo; it will make sense.) He would then pull his jig and the torch simultaneously to keep the torch in the correct location as he cut the tube. Here are pics. 

A dry run showing his wire apparatus.



 
And making a cut.



When  it came to welding our channel to the blade we bolted the cutting edge  to the moldboard first. That would give it some more rigidity. Here’s  the channel tack welded to the moldboard. You can see how the channel is  positioned below the center of the arc and how the upper leg of the C  is appreciably shorter than the bottom leg.


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## Blackfoot Tucker

(Note: I should point out the factory blade that came on Thundercat had a cutting edge that was 4” high and 1/4” thick. The mounting holes were in the center, making the cutting edge reversible. When I got Thundercat that cutting edge had some similarities to a potato chip; meaning it was bent several different ways. While weight is the enemy, sometimes it’s worth it to go with a heavier steel if the additional strength gained is needed. For Snowzilla we thought a stronger cutting edge was desirable, and worth the weight penalty. So our cutting edge is 6” tall and 1/2” thick, with the holes in the center. One can unbolt the cutting edge, flip it end-for end, then bolt it back on and use the other part. (If you’re wondering why the cutting edge has to be flipped end-for-end, the reason is the holes in the cutting edge are punched to make a square hole, and then countersunk for special bolts that resemble carriage bolts. The square hole holds the bolt, and if you turned the cutting edge around rather than flipping it end-for-end, the countersunk side would be toward the blade skin.)

The channel was just the first of many pieces to add. Here are some more in-process photos. Basically all of the reinforcement pieces have been added. What isn’t pictured are the “shoes”, or the bracket and braces that hold the hydraulic cylinder responsible for tilting the blade. The caps on the U shaped channels haven’t been welded on, nor have the guide plates for supporting the blade when it’s tilted left or right. But it’s getting there… 

In the center of the blade you can see a 1” diameter bolt protruding. That’s a Grade 8 bolt and the head is welded to the back side of a piece of ships channel. (Most channel steel is structural channel and the short legs, or flanges, are tapered. Ships channel is generally heavier and the flanges don’t taper.) That bolt is the center axis of the side-to-side tilt function. If you look at the main C channel you’ll see that it is skip welded to the blade skin. The reason is twofold, the added strength from a continuous weld is not necessary, and the gaps in the welds allow any water inside to escape.





A front view.



In this photo we added the vertical bracket for the side to side hydraulic tilt cylinder and its two braces. Our blade skin has more arc than the factory blade and this required us to cope the backside of the vertical rectangular tubing so it would fit flush with the main C channel. Scott then welded the vertical bracket along the coped edges. The hole toward the top is for a 1” diameter pin the hydraulic cylinder will attach to. If you look closely you’ll see the hole is actually a bushing. We drilled a 1 1/2” diameter hole for a short length of 1 1/2” O.D., 1.020 I.D. DOM (drawn over mandrel) tube. The bushing welded in place adds significant reinforcement.

Below and to the left of the tilt bracket is the left side, tilt function guide plate. It was cut from 5/16”  steel plate and it’s spaced up from the main C channel 5/8”. That space is for tabs on the pivot assembly to ride in as the blade is tilted. Tucker used flat pieces of steel to gain that spacing and welded everything together. It looks somewhat bulky with all the welds. Scott thought a better way was to use 5/8" diameter solid bar. It was relatively easy to bend it to the correct radius, and when the bar is positioned against the flat steel there are great locations at the intersections for weld beads that are somewhat hidden. It’s just as functional, but a bit better looking - in our opinion.  

 

After getting the blade to this point, we moved on to fabricate the pivot assembly. It too is cut from 4” square tube, though the wall thickness is 1/4”. The blade is 9’6” long and is made up of 40 different pieces of steel that all have to be cut to size and welded together. The pivot assembly is just a little over 4’ long and there are 24 pieces of steel in it’s construction. That’s another way of saying fabricating it was time consuming. In this photo it’s not complete, but you can see its general makeup. In this position the blade is not tilted. You can see bushed and reinforced holes in the center. That’s where the A frame attaches with another 1” Grade 8 bolt. The bushed holes toward the two sides are for the two hydraulic angle cylinders to attach. Scott likes to ensure his welds have great penetration, which means lots of heat. With all of the different components and the various welds involved, the pivot assembly developed a very slight arc and Scott used a hydraulic press to gently persuade it back to flat.



This photo shows how the guide plates and the pivot assembly's tabs interact. The pivot assembly has a piece of ships channel welded to the top with another bushed hole for the blades 1” Grade 8 bolt, and you can see how that functions as well.



My friend in Vermont completed the machining of the A frame's sleeve and the axle clamps for the axle mounted frame. Those arrived and he did his usual beautiful job. I genuinely get pleasure working with such nicely made parts. His philosophy is that one’s work product is a reflection of the person doing it. Nothing leaves his shop unless it’s right. Nothing! Quite the contrast with the company that supplied the blade skin... 

(Note: There will likely be a delay before the next update to this thread. The 1642/43 Scott and I re-cabbed showed up from Colorado for repair of the broken rear axle housing. We're going to concentrate on getting that repair done, as well as a few other things they'd like us to tackle.)


----------



## HankScorpio

You guys are doing great work.  Thanks for posting up all the pics.  I like that plasma trick with the wire, I will be using it in the future.


----------



## The Sweet Wbj1

It is really coming together!!


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

The changes we've made thus far to Snowzilla have been related to improving the comfort and functionality of the machine, but nothing has been done to improve its performance capabilities. Scott and I firmly believe an automatic transmission is a very worthwhile option/feature in a snowcat. One issue though with the stock Chrysler LA series industrial engines is the available automatic transmission choices. Chrysler offered the Loadflite, which is very similar to their Torqueflite transmission. It is a three-speed, non-overdrive transmission. The Loadflite was offered with short and long tail shaft housings and Tucker chose the short tail shaft style. Those transmissions were not made in big numbers, and are thus very hard to find. In discussions with Tucker factory personnel, they unanimously prefer the other automatic that Tucker offered at that time; the Allison AT545, which is a four-speed, non-overdrive transmission. Those transmissions were made in large numbers and are easily found, and at reasonable prices, too! But there is an issue: 

Typically automatic transmissions have a housing, or case, that incorporates the bell housing that bolts to the engine. With medium and heavy-duty truck transmissions, they make the transmission and a separate adapter housing for specific engine applications. For example, whereas General Motors made the Turbo-Hydramatic 400 transmission with separate transmission case configurations for Chevrolet, Pontiac, Buick, Oldsmobile, etc, Allison made the AT545 in a standard configuration with an SAE number 3 bolt pattern and then used an adapter housing with the SAE pattern on the transmission side and a specific shape and bolt pattern on the other side for all manner of different engines. But the problem is the AT545 was not offered as an option by Chrysler for the LA series engines, so Tucker had the adapter housings made for them by a company in Oregon. Finding those adapter housings is extremely difficult. (I have been trying to pry one from redsqwrl’s hands, along with an engine, transmission and perhaps a complete Tucker, but was unsuccessful.)

After basically striking out finding a suitable automatic transmission to replace the stock 5-speed manual, and after considerable thought, research and back-and-forth discussion, it was decided to upgrade Snowzilla to an automatic transmission AND at the same time it would get a "heart transplant” in the form of a new engine. That of course opens up lots of options for transmissions as well as engines. I'll call the new power plant the "mystery motor". 

Note, a little history behind the name: Back in 1963 just prior to the Daytona 500, Chevrolet introduced what was called the mystery motor. Junior Johnson won the first qualifying race with one, and Johnny Rutherford won the second qualifying race, also using the mystery motor. There were five cars equipped with that engine and all five blew away the previous year's winning qualifying speed. The mystery motor was a pre-production Chevrolet 427 big block engine. In 1965 Chevrolet introduced the big block - in 396 cubic inches as an option in the Chevelle rated at 375 HP, and midway through the year, in the Corvette, rated at 425 HP (when they simultaneously dropped the 375 HP rated Rochester Fuel injected 327 option). in 1966 the venerable 427 was introduced. 

(The mystery motor destined for Snowzilla has nothing in common with the 427 big block, other than my use of the mystery motor name.)  

Look what arrived on a pallet. What could it be???


----------



## PJL

It's like Christmas trying to figure out whats in the boxes under the tree.


----------



## The Sweet Wbj1




----------



## olympicorange

Blackfoot Tucker said:


> The changes we've made thus far to Snowzilla have been related to improving the comfort and functionality of the machine, but nothing has been done to improve its performance capabilities. Scott and I firmly believe an automatic transmission is a very worthwhile option/feature in a snowcat. One issue though with the stock Chrysler LA series industrial engines is the available automatic transmission choices. Chrysler offered the Loadflite, which is very similar to their Torqueflite transmission. It is a three-speed, non-overdrive transmission. The Loadflite was offered with short and long tail shaft housings and Tucker chose the short tail shaft style. Those transmissions were not made in big numbers, and are thus very hard to find. In discussions with Tucker factory personnel, they unanimously prefer the other automatic that Tucker offered at that time; the Allison AT545, which is a four-speed, non-overdrive transmission. Those transmissions were made in large numbers and are easily found, and at reasonable prices, too! But there is an issue:
> 
> Typically automatic transmissions have a housing, or case, that incorporates the bell housing that bolts to the engine. With medium and heavy-duty truck transmissions, they make the transmission and a separate adapter housing for specific engine applications. For example, whereas General Motors made the Turbo-Hydramatic 400 transmission with separate transmission case configurations for Chevrolet, Pontiac, Buick, Oldsmobile, etc, Allison made the AT545 in a standard configuration with an SAE number 3 bolt pattern and then used an adapter housing with the SAE pattern on the transmission side and a specific shape and bolt pattern on the other side for all manner of different engines. But the problem is the AT545 was not offered as an option by Chrysler for the LA series engines, so Tucker had the adapter housings made for them by a company in Oregon. Finding those adapter housings is extremely difficult. (I have been trying to pry one from redsqwrl’s hands, along with an engine, transmission and perhaps a complete Tucker, but was unsuccessful.)
> 
> After basically striking out finding a suitable automatic transmission to replace the stock 5-speed manual, and after considerable thought, research and back-and-forth discussion, it was decided to upgrade Snowzilla to an automatic transmission AND at the same time it would get a "heart transplant” in the form of a new engine. That of course opens up lots of options for transmissions as well as engines. I'll call the new power plant the "mystery motor".
> 
> Note, a little history behind the name: Back in 1963 just prior to the Daytona 500, Chevrolet introduced what was called the mystery motor. Junior Johnson won the first qualifying race with one, and Johnny Rutherford won the second qualifying race, also using the mystery motor. There were five cars equipped with that engine and all five blew away the previous year's winning qualifying speed. The mystery motor was a pre-production Chevrolet 427 big block engine. In 1965 Chevrolet introduced the big block - in 396 cubic inches as an option in the Chevelle rated at 375 HP, and midway through the year, in the Corvette, rated at 425 HP (when they simultaneously dropped the 375 HP rated Rochester Fuel injected 327 option). in 1966 the venerable 427 was introduced.
> 
> (The mystery motor destined for Snowzilla has nothing in common with the 427 big block, other than my use of the mystery motor name.)
> 
> Look what arrived on a pallet. What could it be???



4BTA-3.9L


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

Work on Snowzilla continues. With Thundercat we made the modifications first, then tested them for performance verification. And only then did we disassemble the machine for sandblasting and painting. But the plan with Snowzilla is different. Many of the modifications we’re doing are similar to what we previously did with Thundercat, so proof-of-concept testing isn’t necessary, and we need to get it done for Christmas, 2019. Snowzilla is getting completely repainted (with a color change, no less), but we want to finish all the required welding before it gets sandblasted and painted. Then it will be reassembled with some new components, some modified components and of course some original parts as well. Then once it’s all together we’ll take it out and make sure everything is working properly prior to delivery. Hopefully we’ll have it done... and be waiting for adequate snow to do that testing. But it’s amazing how time flies, and though it’s only the first week of June, I’m mildly concerned about the completion date more than six months away.

We needed to remove the original engine and transmission mounts and get the mystery motor and the transmission (Allison AT545) mounts fabricated and welded to the Tucker frame. That required attaching the engine to the transmission to position them as an assembly in the frame to determine the location for the respective mounts. The Allison's torque converter attaches to the engine’s flex plate with six bolts. The original transmission behind the mystery motor only used three bolts to secure the torque converter. Of course the bolt circle was slightly different as well. These holes need to be in perfect alignment with each other, but the bolt circle must be perfectly concentric with the crankshaft or there will be balance issues. I took the flex plate to an automotive machine shop to make sure it was done right... except they screwed up. To be fair, they owned their mistake, bought a new flex plate and properly drilled the new one. But there was a delay and so progress slips a few days….

Here’s the frame with the engine and transmission removed.



And with a bunch of parts removed. The original front mount for the engine is still there but the transmission mounts have been removed.



A close-up of where the front engine mount was. (Bolts were removed for better access to eliminate the original welds.)



A close-up of where the manual transmission mounts were removed.



Here’s the frame with the new engine mounts and the original transmission mounts slightly modified,  re-positioned and re-welded. Tucker offsets the engine to the left from the frame’s longitudinal center. The only reason we can think of is so there’s room for the hydraulic pump’s 8” diameter pulley. We mount the engine in the center for better side-to-side weight distribution. Due to the different engine and serpentine belt configuration, we have to redesign (re-engineer?) the hydraulic pumps belt drive system. That’s actually quite involved, and then the new specially machined parts are quite expensive as well.


----------



## Pontoon Princess

finally someone is going to put a HELLCAT engine in a tucker, how coooooooool....

will sound like it is going 140 mph, that will keep those pesky kristi s in their place

and they all lived happily ever after


----------



## The Sweet Wbj1

This has been a long time coming! I am like a kid at Christmas! I can't wait!


----------



## olympicorange

So..
.that beast gonna have a "Hemi".....??


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

olympicorange said:


> So..
> .that beast gonna have a "Hemi".....??



I think it's up to wbuffetjr1 to reveal exactly what the mystery motor is. But I will go so far as to say it's not a Hemi... of any generation. The current versions, Generation 3, use the same bellhousing bolt pattern as used on the Chrysler LA series engines (273, 318, 340, and 360 CID) except the top bolt hole in the bellhousing is not used.

We decided to go with an automatic transmission, and more specifically to use the Allison AT545. If we wanted to use a current generation Hemi engine, we would need to find an adapter housing for the Chrysler LA application. I believe only Tucker used that combination and they had the housings made to their specs. I tried, but was unsuccessful, to pry a 360/AT545 combination from redsqwrl's hands (paws?).  

 But, the mystery motor's bellhousing bolt pattern is fairly commonly used with AT545's, which was a bonus in selecting an engine.


----------



## Pontoon Princess

Blackfoot Tucker said:


> I think it's up to wbuffetjr1 to reveal exactly what the mystery motor is. But I will go so far as to say it's not a Hemi... of any generation. The current versions, Generation 3, use the same bellhousing bolt pattern as used on the Chrysler LA series engines (273, 318, 340, and 360 CID) except the top bolt hole in the bellhousing is not used.
> 
> We decided to go with an automatic transmission, and more specifically to use the Allison AT545. If we wanted to use a current generation Hemi engine, we would need to find an adapter housing for the Chrysler LA application. I believe only Tucker used that combination and they had the housings made to their specs. I tried, but was unsuccessful, to pry a 360/AT545 combination from redsqwrl's hands (paws?).
> 
> But, the mystery motor's bellhousing bolt pattern is fairly commonly used with AT545's, which was a bonus in selecting an engine.




so sad, you were our best hope for a hemi...


----------



## Track Addict

Maybe its a nice orange Waukesha Thunder Pumpkin being fit into place?


----------



## The Sweet Wbj1

The engine is a low mileage 6.2 LS out of a Yukon Denali. I think it is something like 420HP and 440 ft/lbs of torque stock. I believe it makes greater than 300 ft/lbs through the entire torque curve. All aluminum block and heads. Listed weight is ~450lbs. I had it for another project  that ended up getting sold. After much discussion with Blackfoot the engine headed West. I really wanted more power than the 318 was going to deliver and no matter what engine Snowzilla had I was planning on fuel injection since our cabin is at 10,000'. After looking over systems like the Holley Sniper and the all in cost of one of those combined with the still limited power of the 318, the 6.2 just made more and more sense.


----------



## Track Addict

Very nice choice.  Have had two of those in life.  One in a Denali 150K miles and current one in and Escalade under 100K.  Both the wife drives.

Only had to do an oil pan gasket on one sometime after 100K miles.  Both have been reliable flawless runners with lots of power.

Nice to see the heart beat of America in a Tucker!  Congrats


----------



## The Sweet Wbj1

Thanks TA! I have never owned a 6.2 in a vehicle personally, but a buddy had one in a Denali. His experience was identical to yours! Hoping it will last forever with such limited usage. Blackfoot is also installing Detroit E-lockers front and rear! I am thinking it will be a BEAST in the snow! Got to live up to the name Snowzilla!


----------



## redsqwrl

Lockers add a tremendous amount of ability. is the motor a lot lighter or a little lighter?

a pound of aluminum and a pound of feathers weigh the same.


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

Now that the cat’s out of the bag on the mystery motor’s identity,.. By the way, it is considered a Generation IV LS engine and in GM engine parlance it is known as an L94. It was installed in luxury SUVs: namely the Cadillac Escalade and Yukon Denali. At the time, it was the most powerful normally aspirated engine available in a Cadillac. Yes, its sibling the LS3, that was installed in the Corvette at the time, makes more horsepower, but it produces less torque and it's torque curve isn't as flat. While some might think the LS3 would have bragging rights, in the snowcat application having more torque and a flat torque curve makes the L94 the better choice. The L94 makes a whole lot more power than the stock 318, AND having an aluminum block and cylinder heads, it weighs less about 100 lbs less than a cast iron engine of the same size. What’s not to like about that?



The 8.1 was basically the last evolution of the Chevy big block and dimensionally it’s a fairly large engine. The length of the shortest driveshaft we could have made between the transmission and the transfer case determined how far aft the engine and transmission could be installed. But even all the way back, the front of the oil pan (an aluminum casting) conflicted with the front axle/fifth wheel plate assembly. We then had to move all that forward 2”, which also meant lengthening the steering tie rod and the front driveshaft. 

When we first positioned Snowzilla’s 6.2  engine and Allison AT545 in the engine bay, it seemed there was tons of room, and we didn’t have to move the front axle/fifth wheel plate/front suspension. While that was a serendipitous discovery, the question was why? We were baffled, took some measurements which confirmed there was over an inch of extra room and didn’t understand why "Tucker had installed the transfer case an inch further aft". Well, it turns out it wasn’t due to a change in transfer case location... 

Tucker uses different transfer cases, I think both at customer request and for different applications. The “standard” case in this era is referred to as the 1 5/16” transfer case. (Note: this size is still being used today in some models.) That’s the transfer case specified in the original order sheet for Snowzilla. However, looking at Thundercat’s original order sheet, it came with the heavier-duty 2 1/2” transfer case. That detail explains the extra room. In looking at photos of the other Tucker’s I’ve owned, all except Thundercat had/have the 1 5/16” case.  

Part of the disassembly process involves removing the cab floors, the rear seat footwell pieces and the rear seat benches. In so doing we discovered what I’ll call more disappointing workmanship. Sloppy work and poor manufacturing processes are big pet peeves of mine. If you do a job; do it right. And that applies across the board. For example, if you’re soldering copper pipe you wipe the joint. It doesn’t matter if it’s buried in a wall behind sheetrock. Don’t merely “do the job; “define the job” via excellence. 

Tucker builds the frame for these machines from various structural steel members that are cut and welded together. Would it REALLY be that much trouble to at least paint these raw steel members with some primer before adding sheetmetal? Not doing so causes rust issues, and when dissimilar metals are in direct contact - galvanic corrosion. I have a lot of respect for much of what Tucker does, but I have contempt for their sloppy workmanship and questionable "quality control”.  

Here are some pics.

Note the complete lack of paint on some of the frame members. (Shiny area on cross member is where the back-up alarm brackets were welded before being cut off.)



Close up of unpainted frame section.



These two pics are of the rear frame where the footwell’s exterior aluminum skin attaches to the raw steel frame. You can see the needless galvanic corrosion and rust. Note the two vertical frame pieces and the number of fastener holes. Yup, different. NICE attention to detail…NOT





The fuel system will need to be completely re-plumbed from the gas tank to the engine. The stock canister filter and auxiliary electric pump will be replaced with a spin-on, water separating fuel filter (with drain) and a higher pressure, in-line electric fuel pump as well as a combination filter/pressure regulator downstream from the pump that also has a return-to-tank line that must be plumbed. The various components need to be mounted properly, and we want to determine the optimal locations for each, and then fabricate whatever mounting brackets are required, which will also require some welding. The foot well area in the rear cab on a XX43 Tucker steals a lot of real estate for mounting various components, so the best component positioning and routing of fuel lines isn’t obvious. 

Snowzilla gets the benefit of lessons learned on other projects, and it's getting the same modifications to the hydraulic pump and steering system. That means the addition of a dual cross-port relief valve between the orbitrol and the steering cylinder. 

Here, some pieces of flat bar have been welded to the Tucker frame. The cross-port relief valve will be bolted to these brackets.



Another modification we did to Thundercat that we're doing to Snowzilla is reconfiguring the windshield wiper system for increased swept area and re-positioning the swept area more optimally for the driver and passenger. In general terms we move the left side wiper spindle (the part the wiper arm attaches to) 5” to the right and we move the right side wiper spindle 2 5/8” to the right. Of course this involves drilling new holes in the area below the windshield, welding up the old holes, and modifying the wiper mechanism linkage accordingly. The hard part to this modification was the design work. The modification itself is relatively easy. It’s just some labor, and there are no new parts required! (Note that this modification and the dimensions I listed above are for a 52” wide cab.)

Here’s the modified sheet metal. Look at all the holes in the firewall!



With the change to an automatic transmission we wanted to add a transmission temperature gauge. As wbuffetjr1 mentioned, Snowzilla is getting Eaton E-Lockers installed in both differentials and it was decided to switch them independently. The exterior lighting system is being seriously upgraded with a plethora of LED lights, and those lights, all require switches. It was then decided to redesign the instrument panel to accommodate all the changes. Scott and I spent some time with his CAD system playing with different alignments and positions for the various dash mounted components. A new aluminum panel was water-jet cut to that design. (I’ll pause for a second and say if you find a good vendor, the water-jet process yields amazing accuracy at a very cost effective price. (It’s Uber cool technology!)) 

Here’s a pic. Notice the hole with straight sides below and to the right of the largest round hole (for the tachometer). That’s for the ignition switch. The switch has straight sides and if installed in a hole cut accordingly with straight sides, the switch doesn’t rotate if you turn the key in the ignition switch with too much force. Yes, it’s a small detail, but it’s an improvement over the factory round-hole method. We also changed the outside corners from sharp, square corners to rounded ones. There are 14 switch holes for rocker switches, and four of them are spares for future system “growth”. Since this machine is destined for Colorado, maybe some under-cat "mood lighting"?



The various changes to the electrical system require significant re-wiring, and as pictured above, there are a lot of extraneous holes in the fire wall. Those all get welded closed, and this Tucker’s dash panel, like so many others, has a number of extra holes, eleven to be exact. Scott welded those closed. Incidentally his technique is to use a length of flat brass plate that he clamps directly behind the hole. Using a mIg welder, he slowly fills in the hole (to minimize heat-related distortion) and the steel welding wire won’t attach to the brass. The back side isn’t perfectly flat, but it works reasonably well.


----------



## sno-drifter

Just an observation regarding lockers: Tucker started installing Hy-Torq diffs in the mid '60s. These diffs were made with over running sprag side gears. The differential action was that in a corner, the outside axle would free wheel. The Hy-Torqs were only factory installed in one end of the cat. Our 543 had the triangular grousers with the tapered cleat ends. Our operating conditions were from very deep snowfalls to boiler plate ice. The cat was never operated on paved surfaces so the tapered cleats were as OEM. The purpose of the taper was to prevent side slip on ice, and it works very well. On super hard ice the cleat marks would be about 1/4 inch long. Needles to say, traction was beyond what carburetors of the day would handle and what operators of the day could muster kahonas. The problem with this setup is that in a corner the axle with the locker wanted to go faster than the axle with the open diff. The failure was that the front cross member failed. Fortunately, this was in the era of bolted in vs. welded front trunion cross members. We could ski to the crippled cat with tools, cross member, and jack to repair it. Moral of story, only engage lockers when necessary. Also, an open diff is very useful for side hilling and as a safety to prevent rollover.


----------



## redsqwrl

Having used ARB and E lockers in wheeled and tracked vehicles. Being in the conversation with track inc folks in regards to locker use in our grooming equipment. Lockers in tuckers are for Getting out of what ever situation you may have gotten into.

My $.02 is about Knowing whether or not you are unlocked.
 our experience is with Heavy terra tracked tuckers and operators that doesn't understand common mechanical operations such as differentials. 
Lock up in a straight line. unlock in a straight line. don't try to lock while one (wheel or pontoon) is turning and one is not. when you unlock, in addition to the switch saying it is unlocked you need to feel it unlock in the seat of your pants so to say. If you feel bound up ( not in the cheese way) stop and back up a bit. Both style of selectable locker mentioned use  substantial force to lock the side gear. both use a simple fairly weak spring to unlock. 
we have turn table and track failures due to lockers not being allowed to unlock. It would be easy to blame one operator or the other. but in a day of common sense not being so common, just follow the instructions that come with the device and you will be fine.

I personally like the air based systems. 

the air will leak over time. this air vents the differential in a positive manner.
On board air can assist other brand snow cats with repairs ;-)
there are multiple ways to get pressurized are into a locker.
 in an Armageddon catastrophic failed seal you can pump grease in it and it will work. 

If you fail a coil, slip ring or brush. or your alternator quits. You have to pull the cover off the diff to push it in with a screw driver and It will pop right back out again.

  Most of the knuckle head videos on You tube have the break downs and stucks way far away from common sense. stack the deck in your favor and keep the common sense close to the situation.


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

Work continues on Snowzilla…

We removed the windows from the three doors, and the doors themselves, as well as the flat glass in the back of the cab. The firewall's numerous extra holes were all welded up. Then it was time to put the engine and transmission back in Snowzilla so we knew where the powertrain was and could install various components that require welding.

A big portion of the list are the six-way blade’s support frame members. On my first Tucker, and on Thundercat, there are four diagonal support members that were welded to the Tucker’s frame and then are welded at the bottom to a curved, C-shaped channel. (Interestingly, despite being the same model year, they did it a bit differently on the two machines.) A low-friction plastic block attaches to the blade’s axle mounted frame and rides in that C-channel. Before we could think about the support arms, we needed the plastic block and the C-channel.

1980 Tucker 1543 factory blade installation. 



Here’s the factory installation on Thundercat. Why are the rear support 
arms different?



Here’s a pic of Thundercat after we moved the support arms. When we installed the big motor we needed to move the front axle and fifth wheel plate assemblies forward 2” and thus made new support arms. This shows where they attach to the C-channel.



This is where we attached the two rear support arms. They’re welded to the stout frame crossmember directly in front of the transfer case. This change required moving the brake line and you can see the new stainless steel line secured to the bottom of that crossmember (pardon all the dust).



I bought a chunk of low-friction plastic and Scott and I cut it to the correct shape with a radius on the back side to match the curve of the C-channel. It attaches to the axle mounted frame with a Grade 8 bolt, so we needed to drill a hole for the bolt, counterbore the hole for the bolt head, and then cut out the areas for the bolt’s six corners with a chisel.



The C-channel was more time-consuming. Tucker makes the channel out of 5/16” steel plate on the top and bottom pieces, and 1/4” plate for the back of the C. Scott didn’t have any 5/16” plate on hand but did have 3/8”, so we used that. He used an acetylene torch and a circle burner gizmo to get the radius correct on the top and bottom plates. He then used a hydraulic press to form the arc on the back plate, checking its fitment against the radii of the top and bottom plates, and making adjustments accordingly. Incidentally, to get the two 3/8” plates darn close to identical, he tack welded them together so I could grind them at the same time. After all that was done, he used a mig welder to tack the pieces together and an arc welder and “jet rod” to get the desired penetration for strength. After allowing it to cool, he went back and used 7018 rod to weld the inside corners of the C-channel. We then used a roundover router bit on the plastic block to ease the corners and make room for the C-channels inner corner weld beads.

The C-channel after welding, and prior to clean-up. 



I mentioned above that on Thundercat the four diagonal supports are welded to the frame. That method works, and works well, but accessing the bottom of the transmission to change the filter inside, for example is a PITA. Another issue is you can remove the six-way blade, and the axle mounted frame if you desire, but those support arms and the C-channel are still there. Scott and I discussed the idea of making the support frame bolt-on rather than permanently welded. We suggested this possibility to wbuffetjr1, and he liked the concept. Then we had to turn the concept into reality. Typically in these situations we each come up with our idea, and then discuss them and their respective merits. More often than not we go with Scott’s concept... because it’s better. And that’s what happened…again.

The two rear diagonal braces are welded to the back of the C-channel at the bottom and are welded to two pieces of 1/4” angle at the top. The angle bolts to the Tucker frame crossmember in front of the transfer case with two 1/2” Grade 8 bolts per piece of angle.

Here’s a pic of the rear support arms tack welded to the rear of the C-channel. The  big thing that hangs down in front of the arms is the Allison's deep transmission pan (more on that later).



Here’s a photo of the bolt-on attachment. It’s fastened temporarily, with some hardware Scott had on hand. When Snowzilla is reassembled after painting it will be done with new Grade 8 fasteners. It’s a little hard to see but the support arms are positioned directly in front of some square tube sections that are welded between the two frame crossmembers. Realize the bolts really just hold the angle pieces and support arms in position. They’re directly against the frame crossmember and that’s what bears the brunt of the load, not the bolts themselves. There’s a lot of strength there.


----------



## sno-drifter

Looks good!!
Ultra High Molecular Weight polyethylene, UHMW


----------



## sno-drifter

And the drive line snakes through there too? Looks tight.

I like the concept of the bolt-in frame. Guess who gets to replace clutches and throw-out bearings here?


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

sno-drifter said:


> And the drive line snakes through there too? Looks tight.
> 
> I like the concept of the bolt-in frame. Guess who gets to replace clutches and throw-out bearings here?



sno-drifter, you definitely get style points for being so observant. The front driveshaft DOES conflict with the transmission pan. That's the "deep" transmission pan and Allison also offered a shallow pan. I think I previously mentioned (in a post somewhere) that the deep pan is like a kitchen roasting pan and the shallow pan resembles a paint roller tray that tapers. (The shallow pan uses a different transmission filter and requires a different pick-up tube.)

I also agree with your assessment on the framework and the difficulty of removing the transmission for clutch or throwout bearing access. With the factory style welded blade frame I think you need to pull the engine, either separately or with the transmission attached, to get the required access.

My regret is we did Thundercat before Snowzilla, and didn't change the blade framework to a bolt-on style. You learn with each project, and later ones benefit from that added knowledge.


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

I'm going to address the transmission pan issue now, and then get back to the bolt-on blade support framework modifications.

The AT545 we’re using came with a deep transmission pan, and as sno-drifter suggested, the rear of the deep pan conflicts with the driveshaft between the transfer case and the front axle. Allison does offer a shallow transmission pan, however Allison's pricing is (pick one): 

A.) Absurd
B.) Ridiculous
C.) Egregious
D.) Unconscionable
E.) All of the above 

(The correct answer is E.)

A new shallow pan from Allison is north of $220 + tax (mind you, it’s only a steel stamping, and it’s not plated with gold, 14K or otherwise). I just can’t pay that and look at myself in the mirror. With Thundercat we surgically modified the deep pan to make it like what we thought a shallow pan looked like (we didn’t have one, or even a picture of one, to copy). It was fairly time consuming to cut it apart and weld it all back together, ensure it sealed properly and make it look good, too. 

Here’s a pic of our modified pan.



And the largest section we cut out.



Used pans are available from salvage yards, but they know what new ones cost, so they charge accordingly. I searched the Internet high and low for used shallow AT545 pans. One yard in Washington state wanted $170... for a USED pan (YGTBSM!). The yard that had them at the best price (in Arkansas) wanted me to fill out a form that had a whole bunch of personal information. (Really, to buy a used part from a junkyard? Ah...No.) 

We also needed a single-neutral valve body and an E-brake assembly for Snowzilla's transmission. More Internet searching revealed a heavy truck salvage yard not too awfully far away. A phone call showed them to be knowledgeable and helpful, and the prices quoted were somewhat reasonable. I drove up there to get the valve body and E-brake components and asked about shallow pans. It turns out they had a few, and the price was better than I had found elsewhere... so I bought two. (Thundercat will get a “real" shallow pan after all.) They have some dents and a bit of rust, so they need some cleanup and TLC, but the cost was hundreds (yes, multiple) less than two new pans from Allison!

Here’s a pic of a Tucker factory installed AT545. Note the shallow pan, and the clearance above the driveshaft. The electrical connection you see (where Allison places the drain) is for a transmission temperature sensor, and I believe that was factory installed as well. The location seems ill-considered; it measures the temperature of the fluid in the pan. That’s after it has left the transmission, circulated through the cooler and then been returned to the pan and mixed with fluid in the pan. Heat is the enemy of an automatic transmission, so having a temperature gauge is certainly worthwhile, but measuring the temperature after the fluid has been through the cooler seems like shutting the gate AFTER the cows got out. It tells you nothing about how hot the fluid is inside the transmission, and that’s where the damage will occur. Our primary concern is how hot the transmission is, not how well the cooler is working. To provide another illustration, where is an engine’s temperature sensor? Is it at the water pump inlet measuring coolant entering the engine from the radiator? No, it’s by the thermostat measuring the temperature of the coolant as it leaves the engine. Same concept...


----------



## sno-drifter

Damn, you beat me to the punch. I was going to suggest cutting out a round pipe section or even fancier, a cone which would provide DL clearance to weld into the pan. Seems like with the axle mounted frame, there would be no spring wrap up. All you need clearance for is spring compression and turning clearance. I am always going for max lube capacity. I don't have any idea about oil pick up tubes in auto trans, hell, I can't even spell ATF, let alone what it means.


----------



## olympicorange

……...nice job on the oil pan.   great points about the temp. sender.  i'm guessing the temp. gauge for tranny may have been an option perhaps....and if so ... the oil pan plug is a quickie place to throw it in .  more for looks to the customer, than practicle performance.  great job on snowzilla…


----------



## olympicorange

sno-drifter said:


> Damn, you beat me to the punch. I was going to suggest cutting out a round pipe section or even fancier, a cone which would provide DL clearance to weld into the pan. Seems like with the axle mounted frame, there would be no spring wrap up. All you need clearance for is spring compression and turning clearance. I am always going for max lube capacity. I don't have any idea about oil pick up tubes in auto trans, hell, I can't even spell ATF, let alone what it means.



…….LOL …  ...  I agree ….   where ever possible , the more the oil the better...especially when in steep inclines , etc.   but considering this application....  not a lot of other options ...within reason....


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## Blackfoot Tucker

Gentlemen, thanks for the nice comments! I sincerely appreciate it.


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

The front arms were a complete departure from the factory setup. I was in the mode of “Tucker designed it this way, and it works. Let’s use their geometry and figure out a way to make it bolt-on”. Scott, however viewed it as a way to improve on the factory design and started with a clean sheet of paper, so to speak. Attentive readers of this thread have probably already figured out how this is going to end…. Yup, it’s like an episode of Perry Mason; just as he never loses...we used Scott’s design.

Scott thought adding a crossmember to the frame underneath the bellhousing, and attaching the support arms to that crossmember would be better. In addition to providing the mounting point for those arms, the crossmember adds rigidity and strength to the frame. Basically it consists of a middle 10” section that’s flat, and there are sections on each side that angle up at a 45º angle where the connection to the frame is made. We made the crossmember and Scott tack welded that to the Tucker frame to hold it in position.

The bolt-on arms are welded to pieces of 1/4” angle and they attach at the corners of the crossmember. To get the pieces of angle to fit properly, we cut a 45º wedge out of the vertical leg of the angle and then bent the two ends together. Scott then welded the wedge edges closed. The really tricky part to this design are the cuts on the front of the support arms where they intersect with the pieces of angle. Because the arms themselves are not straight behind but rather attach to the C-channel slightly further out on it’s radius, they have a compound angle where they meet the vertical leg of the angle pieces. But they also attach low enough that they intersect with the angle on the other edges (bottom and outside) and that makes the shape of the required cuts very complex. To get it right, we did this the old-fashioned way: trial and error. Scott took a piece of scrap 2” thin wall square tubing, held it in position and made some marks with a soapstone. Then he cut the tube accordingly and checked the fit. This process was probably repeated 10 times to get the joint to fit reasonably well. Close counts here, as small gaps can be filled when the arms are welded to the pieces of angle; the key word being small. Once we had one side done, we could use that as a pattern to cut the other side, realizing there would be small adjustments required.

Here's a pic of the front end of one of the support arms.




And another. Though it looks like an optical illusion, the tubing is 2" x 2" square tube.



Both arms, side by side.



After that was all tacked in place (and looked pretty darn good), Scott opined we should add gussets to the front of the crossmember for additional strength and rigidity. We could have cut some pieces of triangular shaped flat steel plate and welded those in; simple, easy and effective. But noooooo, it would look “cooler” if we used steel tubing. So back to the piece of scrap for more trial and error fitting and cutting. We were, however getting this procedure down faster. Scott would lay on the creeper underneath Snowzilla and make the marks on the tube, I’d cut the tube and he’d re-mark it, etc, etc. But to make it even better looking, instead, of the 2” x 2” square tube we ended up using 2” x 3” rectangular tube. 

One of the gussets.



Another view.



I have no doubt that by making the support frame bolt-on, and with the additional crossmember design, our’s is better than the factory method. But it was surprisingly time consuming to accomplish. Instead of four arms with eight relatively simple compound angle cuts, and maybe a couple of hours of time, we spent several long nights and there are 13 pieces, some with very complex shapes involved. We can’t be doing this stuff if we have any hope of getting Snowzilla done in time for Christmas… 

Here's a side view. Final welding is not complete. Scott didn't want heat from the welding process to damage the plastic block. The welding will be completed after the axle mounted frame is removed.



Here's a shot of the left gusset and new crossmember.


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## olympicorange

………. well, as I have said before..''masters''  ,...  holy ingenuity … and when you say a little time consuming...yeah , i'd be few weeks on that procedure...  my hats off to scott…  i'm a gonna stay over here in my '' more simple '' realm....lol.... love the thread …  Im   envious...


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## The Sweet Wbj1

That is some BEAUTIFUL work! I LOVE it!


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

Readers should take a detour at this point and look at olympicorange’s outstanding thread 1542 conversion to a 1543 supersized project.  On post 96 he tackles the same issue: simply, elegantly and functionally  with two photos and three words. Unfortunately, the L94 doesn’t lend  itself to such a solution...

One of the issues that has to be addressed with a power train swap is  dealing with the hydraulic situation. Tucker uses a Vickers V20P  hydraulic pump that is sized differently; both in output volume and  pressure, based upon an individual snowcats specifications. They drive  the pump with a pulley and V-belt arrangement; the drive pulley being  attached to the harmonic balancer on the crankshaft, and the driven  pulley on the pump. Those pulleys have a mathematical relationship in size  between the drive and the driven pulley, and that relationship changes  the respective engine and pump RPM. Of course the pump must also be  mounted, and allowances must be made to adjust belt tension.

These  are all considerations that have to be met, one way or another. When  Snowzilla was built, V-belts were the norm, but today engines use a  multi-ribbed serpentine belt system and the L94 engine being installed  in Snowzilla has that system. The harmonic balancer is a machined  casting and the diameter of the machined ribs for the serpentine belts  is quite large. Additionally, the harmonic balancer was not machined to  accept an auxiliary pulley. Bottom line: we would need to purchase, or  create, a complete pulley system for Snowzilla’s hydraulic pump, as well  as a method for mounting the pump, to include a provision for a belt  tensioner. 
 
With the Thundercat project we faced  similar challenges, so this was not at all unexpected. But until I did  some research, we didn’t know what was available for purchase, and what  we had to build. In the case of Thundercat, I was able to purchase a  different GM harmonic balancer that was machined to accept a bolt-on  auxiliary pulley, and I was able to buy the auxiliary pulley from  MerCruiser, who used the 8.1 in several marine applications and the auxiliary  pulley was used to drive the seawater pickup pump for the cooling  system. We were then faced with designing a driven pulley, and having  it machined to our specifications. But with Snowzilla those options were  not available. We were starting from Ground Zero.

Here’s a pic of the system as installed on Thundercat’s 8.1 engine.



Using Al  Gore’s Internet, I was able to purchase an off-the-shelf “racing”  harmonic balancer that was machined in such a way that an auxiliary pulley could be attached, but I could not find an auxiliary pulley that would fit  anywhere. So, we had to design and engineer a new drive pulley, and have  that made, as well as another copy of the Thundercat driven pulley for  the hydraulic pump. The Vickers V20P pump has different shaft options  and the pump's shaft would have to be changed as well.

If you’re  thinking “Ah c’mon Blackfoot, you’re making this way harder than it has  to be. Just use a GM power steering pump”. Well... it’s not that easy.  Both Thundercat and Snowzilla are long track machines and they’re  equipped with six-way blades. The long tracks require more "oomph" for  steering, and one needs to use the various functions of the blade in a  timely fashion. Increased hydraulic volume enables “faster” steering (or  blade movement) and increased hydraulic pressure makes for easier  steering (less effort to turn the wheel). A stock GM pump supplies  neither the required volume or pressure to meet the hydraulic demands of  these two snowcats. With a 1300 or 1500 series machine and no blade, or  rear auxiliary hydraulics…maybe it would work. (I honestly don't know.)  

As I mentioned  above, there is a mathematical relationship between the drive and driven  pulleys, and that determines the RPM relationship. Tucker used a 6”  drive pulley and an 8” driven pulley, which is a 1.333:1 ratio. Vickers  recommends a maximum pump RPM of 2,500 and that equates to an engine RPM  of 3,333 in the Tucker installation. (The L94 harmonic balancer  diameter is about 7.5 inches, so using the same ratio as Tucker, the  driven pulley would be about 10” in diameter.)

The 8.1 Vortec  in Thundercat produces its maximum torque at 3,200 RPM, and maximum  horsepower at 4,200 RPM, but the L94 makes its power at significantly  higher RPM. Max torque is at 4,300 RPM, and max horsepower is all the  way up there at 5,700 RPM. With Thundercat we opted to under drive the  hydraulic pump slightly (meaning more engine RPM for the same hydraulic  pump RPM). But with Snowzilla’s different torque curve we would need to  under drive it even more! However, you still need steering capability at  just above idle RPM, so there is definite compromise involved in any  design. 

Here are the  new pulleys, now waiting to be installed . Driven pulley on the left,  auxiliary/drive pulley in the center and new harmonic balancer on the  right. 



We now have the required pulleys, the tensioner assembly and the necessary components to modify the pump. We still need to design and fabricate the bracket to mount the pump and tensioner. I'll cover that in another post later. 

While Scott and  I have been working on Snowzilla I’ve exchanged many phone calls, texts  and emails with wbuffetjr1. Though we have yet to meet in person, I can  tell you he has a great sense of humor. In that light, we thought about  the Vickers recommendations, and how their pumps are typically  installed. Many installations run at continuous RPM for very extended  periods of time. In a snowcat application they really don’t get used all  that much, and the occasional foray above the maximum recommended RPM  would probably be okay. 

 We could envision wbuffetjr1 cruising along blissfully in Snowzilla and encountering a hapless Snow Trac:


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## redsqwrl

that meme, trailed off the page before the end......


The one I found earlier had the full statement....

whats missing on this one is as follows:

....... with all the angle iron flying off so wear a hard hat.


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## olympicorange

………..  hey BFT,  great job on the explanation and descrtption, pics....nailed it .  looking good .  if I were a gambling man, I would bet you lay awake at nite working the numbers thru your mind... holy cow....... and again, thanks for the kind words... im waiting eagerly for next post...


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## Nikson

Still watching...  Thanks for such detailed explanations... I'm yet to find me a hydro-pump for my steering, 


Cheers!


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

Unfortunately progress on Snowzilla has been appreciably slower than anticipated, and for awhile. Scott has had to cancel Snowzilla work a bunch of times due to personal and work commitments, and I’ve had to cancel some as well. The worst heat of the summer is now past and the cooler temperatures will make for a better working environment. Hopefully the pace will pick up again...

Getting back to to the television metaphor, I suspect many forum members have watched master craftsman Norm Abram on the PBS show The New Yankee Workshop. I’ve enjoyed many episodes, but for me the show loses authenticity when Norm never makes a mistake. I mean really; he never mis-marks or mis-cuts something? Well, in the interest of project integrity, I’ll discuss a Boo-Boo of ours.

Recall that Snowzilla has a front winch and we are adding a factory-style six way blade. Our plan was to extend the axle mounted frame so the mount for the blade’s lift cylinder would clear the winch mount and the winch’s roller fairlead as the front axle rotated through its turning arc. That was all well and good, but one evening we were looking at Snowzilla and contemplating the blade system and it occurred to us what if you wanted to actually use the winch? (What a concept, huh?) The lift cylinder mount would block the roller fairlead if the axle was straight ahead. Truly one of those “Ah, Cr*p” moments.

We talked about various possible solutions and it was decided to raise the winch and modify the factory installed winch mount. Moving backward when you’re trying to make forward progress is not fun! Scott broke out his “hot wrench” (acetylene torch) to carefully remove the bracket from the Tucker frame.

Here are some pics:

Side view of stock factory winch bracket.



Front view of same.



Scott starting the surgery.



After surgical excision, or "winch mount-ectomy", if you prefer. 



At that point we had to figure out how much we needed to raise the winch, and then determine how we wanted to modify the factory mount. After some discussion, it was decided to cut the original side plates from the mount, make new ones in the correct shape, and weld them to the original front and bottom panels.

Here are pics of the new side plates temporarily clamped in position.

Side view.



From another angle.



After satisfactory fitment of the new side plates, Scott removed them from the machine and welded the new side plates to the original front and bottom panels. That assembly was then clamped into position and tack welded to the Tucker to confirm positioning before final welding.

Tacked in position, side view.



Front view.



BTW, if you’re wondering “Why don't those two boneheads remove the bright yellow ratchet binder", I’ll explain. We keep a chain bolted to the engine to facilitate engine removal. Scott has a bridge crane in his shop and that makes it a very simple job to yank the engine and transmission for access. But we have to tilt the engine and transmission at a certain angle and we use the ratchet binder as necessary to adjust that angle. It functions as a “poor-man’s engine tilter”.   

We have not yet decided how we want to attach the bottom panel of the winch mount to the Tucker’s frame. We need to run the six hydraulic lines for the blade’s four hydraulic cylinders. (I realize that sounds stupid, but the numbers are correct. The two angle cylinders oppose each other, and the plumbing of the hydraulic lines is done so you need only one fluid power line to each cylinder.) We must take that into consideration as we want our method to be both functional and look good. 

On some Tucker factory blade installations the hydraulic hose routing and positioning of the quick disconnect fittings looks like it was a complete afterthought (and without much thought at that) rather than an integrated design. We’re striving for the latter!  Sometimes it seems you ponder over a solution and walk away. But your brain subconsciously continues to think about ideas and out of the blue you have an "aha moment" when the solution hits you. This happens to us, though truthfully it’s usually Scott who creates the final design.


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## olympicorange

……….………….  bft/tgs,....  roger that...…..  I stopped counting the '''ah-hahs'' ,..  ''I could've had a '' v-8'' ,... it's all part of the ''proto-type''  world,...  one of my favorite Chinese proverbs, reads  ;  '' he who does nothing wrong, … does nothing all day...''   ,    I have been posting  a similar scenario in the ''archives '' segment , of the old ''smoker''  ,  and today's test provided more... thanks for the insight … I really enjoy  your link ,  awesome , most helpful.....


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## The Sweet Wbj1

Progress doesn't look slow to me! It looks like a runaway train!!!!


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## Blackfoot Tucker

Thanks for the nice comments, but I think "runaway train" is a stretch. More like one guy using a railroad handcar, and going uphill at that...

OO, I'm going to remember that proverb! I'll check out the "achives" project.


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## olympicorange

……….…  LOL..... ive got a slew of them in the 'OL ...'''  useless trivia file''...  the archives is just a ''mumbo jumbo'' file for filler tasks... i'm probably not putting them in the proper realms... I think I just got carried away with the ''blog bug'' …. my first attempt ever.  and I work by myself all day…. so please excuse the ''verbal diarhea'' virus....


----------



## olympicorange

………..   I think my CRS,  is acting up...  I could've sworn I saw some shiny /painted pics somewhwere...hmmmm………….


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## Blackfoot Tucker

olympicorange said:


> ………..   I think my CRS,  is acting up...  I could've sworn I saw some shiny /painted pics somewhwere...hmmmm………….



Okay... you shamed me into providing an update.


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

After getting past the winch mount episode, we needed to design and build the lift cylinder mounting bracket. Tucker offered two different six-way blade configurations; one in which the blade can be tilted side-to-side, and the other in which the blade’s angle with the snow can be increased or decreased. The second type requires an additional hydraulic cylinder mounting position on the diagonal lift cylinder frame. Not needing that, we omitted it from our considerations.

The geometry of the lift cylinder is crucial in determining both how far down and how far up the blade can travel. We spent a considerable amount of time with Scott’s CAD system in drawing up what we had already fabricated with accurate measurements and factoring in the hydraulic cylinder specs. The hydraulic cylinder has a stroke of 12” and an extended length of  34 1/4”. That allowed us (really Scott) to determine the exact position for the hydraulic cylinder to mount so we would achieve optimal cylinder and blade function. Once we had the CAD calculated numbers, we could start cutting and welding.

The center diagonal arm is made from the same 3” x 2” rectangular tube we used on the axle mounted frame. Tucker uses kind of a goofy looking mount for the hydraulic cylinder pin. We decided to use a piece of 1” steel plate. It would be cut accordingly in size to slide into the rectangular tube about 6”, drilled for a 1” diameter cylinder mounting pin, and side plates were added to the section that slid into the rectangular tube to take up the space between the 1” plate and the inside dimension of the rectangular tube. Holes were drilled through the rectangular tube so Scott could add plug welds for strength, in addition to fully welding the front of the 1” plate assembly. 

After that was done, we wanted to add some additional support plates for the hydraulic cylinder’s clevis mount. That meant cutting those plates to size and shape, and also spacing them out from the rectangular tube to allow room for the hydraulic cylinder’s clevis attachment. We added an additional plate on top for looks, and to tie it all together. It's massively strong. Once we had all that complete we had to cut the rectangular tube at the correct length and angle, and position it properly on the axle mounted frame to tack weld it in position. We checked, and double checked the measurements to get the position dead-on. At that point we needed to fabricate the angle braces made from 2” x 2” square tube and get them tacked in position. Tucker used some plate gussets for additional support, but Scott thought those were overkill, and we decided to omit them. 

Here’s an underside view showing the 1” plate in the center, and the side plates.



A front view showing where the hydraulic cylinder's clevis attaches, as well as the diagonal angle braces.



Now, I’ll pause for a (very) rare moment of glory. I was looking at the nearly completed frame and it occurred to me maybe we could add a a diagonal gusset of rectangular tube to add additional support to the diagonal frame member. I suggested this to Scott and he said he’d been thinking the same thing. Holy Moly, stop the presses! Maybe, after almost ten years of working with Scott, I’m starting to pick up a few things! Not really…it was an obvious addition. 

Side view of completed assembly, including triangular support gusset.



Okay, back to reality...Once that was done, Scott got serious about welding it all together. The mig welder was used for all the tack welding, but he brought out the stick and 7018 rod for penetration and strength.

While we had the axle mounted frame on the welding table, we removed the bolt-on support frame to finish the welding that we had held off on. Once that was complete it was time to bolt it all back on to the Tucker.

Pics of the bolt-on support frame. 



A close-up.



Earlier in the thread I think I mentioned the six-way valve used to control the blade's functions. When Thundercat was disassembled in preparation for blasting and painting, we made a tracing of the bracket used to mount the six-way valve. That bracket was then cut from 3/16" plate steel using a plasma cutter.

In a machine without a factory blade, Tucker welds the bracket holding the parking brake handle to a frame cross member under the front seats, and that was the case with Snowzilla. Whoever did the job at the factory managed to weld the bracket at an angle rather than perpendicular, and that askew angle always "stuck in my craw". It was impossible not to notice, and that this machine was delivered to a customer in such condition is (another) indictment of Tucker quality at the time the machine was built. This isn't difficult at all: position it properly, tack weld it, check the position and then weld it. ARRGGGH!

As an aside, eons ago I dropped out of college and went to work for a machine tool manufacturer in my home town. They had a big sign above the door at the loading dock that said "Through these doors pass the finest machine tools in the world". It was a statement that instilled a sense of pride in all of us who worked there. What sign would Tucker have; "Close...is good enough"? (In fairness, I think current production Tuckers are built to a higher standard. But this machine left the factory in this condition and therefore they get to own the (lack of) quality control.)

Machines equipped with a blade have the valve bracket welded to the frame and that parking brake bracket is welded to the valve bracket rather than the frame. We used the opportunity to weld the bracket(s) in proper alignment...which took all of maybe two minutes to do it right.

Photo of the brackets.  


 
Since we had the engine and transmission out, it seemed a good time to take a photo showing the various modifications to the Tucker frame. The new engine and transmission mounts are pictured, as well as the blade’s bolt-on support frame and the new cross member welded in position, complete with triangular gussets for additional support.


----------



## olympicorange

………   great blog …  and details …   ive found similar quality control issues.   LOL  … thx BFT... if that's all it takes to ''shame'' a new blog...  we all know what to do now... ha ha   ...  I noticed your front crossmember , over the fifth wheel..the pivot mount is different than mine.  I think someone along the line did some custom changeovers.. not up to par, so to speak.  would you post a few pics / angles ..of yours ...before you drop the engine back in...  (hopefully its still lout )… awesome...  thx , OO...….


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## The Sweet Wbj1




----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

olympicorange said:


> ………   great blog …  and details …   ive found similar quality control issues.   LOL  … thx BFT... if that's all it takes to ''shame'' a new blog...  we all know what to do now... ha ha   ...  I noticed your front crossmember , over the fifth wheel..the pivot mount is different than mine.  I think someone along the line did some custom changeovers.. not up to par, so to speak.  would you post a few pics / angles ..of yours ...before you drop the engine back in...  (hopefully its still lout )… awesome...  thx , OO...….



OO,

Truth to tell, I usually compose my thread posts in email form and then save them as a draft. Then I cut and paste the text and add photos. I find it easier to organize my thoughts and make revisions that way. But that also means I often have a post or two in reserve and ready to go... 

The engine and transmission are back in Snowzilla. "Real time", we're working on the hydraulic pump mounting bracket, but I have several pictures from the Thundercat project, and the pivot mount setup is similar. Is there anything specific you'd like?


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

wbuffetjr1 said:


>




Reality (enjoy, it's worth a look):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tg_2i0q8yaY


----------



## The Sweet Wbj1

Blackfoot Tucker said:


> Reality (enjoy, it's worth a look):
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tg_2i0q8yaY




:th_lmao:


----------



## Pontoon Princess

wbuffetjr1 said:


> :th_lmao:


hey hey hey

be nice, I have couple of them, there, hand cars and they are a ton of fun


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

Pontoon Princess said:


> hey hey hey
> 
> be nice, I have couple of them, there, hand cars and they are a ton of fun



PP,

Remember the line in the movie Casablanca when Claude Rains' character, Inspector Renault, closes Rick's cafe due to gambling? He says "I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here".

 Well, that was my reaction to learning your collection includes railroad handcars. (Very Cool, BTW... but I'm still going to go with mock surprise in the form of "shocked".) 

For those that would like to watch the actual Casablanca scene:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMIyDf3gBoY


----------



## redsqwrl

well I can only add.......

"here's your winnings sir......."


kind of a kettle and pot observation. One persons hand rail car is anothers FJ-40......  

Oh and for the record my collection went down one F-250 this week.   

hoarders anonymous has been notified.... I can now devote .02% more attention to snow cat projects   *Or* join the host of the midwest snow cat clowder on the rails he has a pair of Rail bikes and enjoys the silent side of motion on the rails.  I am thinking a 17HP electric drive on a hand car. regen on the down hills..........


----------



## The Sweet Wbj1

Hey Blackfoot ALSO collects F250's!! I am hoping to lighten his load of one of those as well down the road!!


----------



## olympicorange

Blackfoot Tucker said:


> OO,
> 
> Truth to tell, I usually compose my thread posts in email form and then save them as a draft. Then I cut and paste the text and add photos. I find it easier to organize my thoughts and make revisions that way. But that also means I often have a post or two in reserve and ready to go...
> 
> The engine and transmission are back in Snowzilla. "Real time", we're working on the hydraulic pump mounting bracket, but I have several pictures from the Thundercat project, and the pivot mount setup is similar. Is there anything specific you'd like?


       …….   roger that....great... time is closing in … same boat here.   I was just curious on the crossmember , where the front fifth wheel ''pivots''....  I want to clean up the ''mess'' on mine.  and yours looked different , much better .  a top view shot, and perhaps ..a left & right view...much appreciated...thx BFT...


----------



## olympicorange

olympicorange said:


> …….   roger that....great... time is closing in … same boat here.   I was just curious on the crossmember , where the front fifth wheel ''pivots''....  I want to clean up the ''mess'' on mine.  and yours looked different , much better .  a top view shot, and perhaps ..a left & right view...much appreciated...thx BFT...




     …..   oh....  I omitted …  I had never thought of that …  I was trying to figure out how to impose description , between pics....   but im lacks on typing...  simple...simple...


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

olympicorange said:


> …….   roger that....great... time is closing in … same boat here.   I was just curious on the crossmember , where the front fifth wheel ''pivots''....  I want to clean up the ''mess'' on mine.  and yours looked different , much better .  a top view shot, and perhaps ..a left & right view...much appreciated...thx BFT...



These three are pics of the setup on Thundercat, but it was identical on Snowzilla.

 First shot is front to back. You can see an offset welded bracket with a single hole in it. That is where the 318 Industrial engine attaches with a single bolt. Looking slightly further back you can see two bolts on each side of the frame. These are also used to secure the bracket assembly the front fifth wheel plate rotates around.



 This is of the same area, though from right to left. If you look closely you can see two bolts that go through a welded plate that is 90º to a frame cross member and welded to that cross member. The other side has a similar 90º bracket.

These six bolts two front and four further back comprise the means of securing that bracket to the Tucker frame.



We had removed the front fifth wheel plate (and the axle mounted blade frame) and you can see all six attachment points in this photo.


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

wbuffetjr1 said:


> Hey Blackfoot ALSO collects F250's!! I am hoping to lighten his load of one of those as well down the road!!



WBJ1,

The word "collects" implies there is a "collection". I think the sum total of my F-250 parts would allow me to assemble two complete vehicles. While I suppose that could constitute a "collection", it would be a pretty meager one....


----------



## olympicorange

…....   WOW …  holy crap …  great pics …  glad I asked …  damn , mine is nothing like yours...  I can say ..cannibal...IZED,..  hmmmm …   thx BFT...


----------



## olympicorange

….  AND ...THANK YOU …    damn near forgot


----------



## sno-drifter

Super nice post BFT.


----------



## The Sweet Wbj1

Blackfoot Tucker said:


> WBJ1,
> 
> The word "collects" implies there is a "collection". I think the sum total of my F-250 parts would allow me to assemble two complete vehicles. While I suppose that could constitute a "collection", it would be a pretty meager one....



From Google 
"How Many Items Make a Collection? There is no minimum number of items for a collection – in theory it is possible to have a collection containing only one item! Collections can also be very large and, typically, large collections will divided into a number of sub-collections."

How many Ford trucks do you own in total? Even the ones you would consider "parts rigs"? Sounds like you might ALSO have a "sub collection" of parts trucks!!


----------



## redsqwrl

too funny.


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

I'm trying to make more frequent thread updates.

After we had all the six-way blade frame parts that attach to the Tucker  either welded or bolted on, it was time for a test fitting of the blade system components. Those were brought into the shop and assembled with steel pins (that we have yet to finish), and in some cases bolts, to complete the test fitting.

Here’s a front view.



A side view. You can see the lift cylinder mount is just below the center of the hole in the winch mounting bracket, which is where the cable will be once the winch and roller fairlead are attached. Unless we wanted to raise the winch a whole lot higher and move the lift cylinder mount underneath (which we didn’t like the idea of), this seemed like the best compromise. 

It looks like the blade is very far in front of the machine, perhaps too far. However, the 1600 series tracks extend about 51” in front of the center of the axle. In addition the tracks are 28” wide. If you draw that out on the concrete floor and then angle the blade fully to one side, that huge gap shrinks to about six inches. Realize too, track tension adjustment is at the front of 1600 series carriers on the front axle (and at the rear of the rear axle).



It’s gratifying to be doing some test fitting, and though blasting and painting will have to be done before final assembly, it still feels good. Speaking of “blasting and painting”, Snowzilla will be getting a complete color change. I won’t reveal any details... but it will be very cool! I know, it’s somewhat mean to tease, but wbuffetjr1 (hereafter WBJ1) put me up to it…Honest.

 We still need to weld the lifting eye (where the other end of the lift cylinder attaches) and we need to install a support rod from the fifth wheel plate to the axle mounted frame. We think Tucker's method can be improved upon fairly easily.

Here are some pics. See what you think. 



A close up view (seems like an uninspired solution).



Stay tuned to see what we (probably Scott, again) come up with....


----------



## Pontoon Princess

how about springs on both sides of the fifth wheel on the shaft from axle mount


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

Pontoon Princess said:


> how about springs on both sides of the fifth wheel on the shaft from axle mount



PP,

Great minds think alike: I had the same idea! When I suggested it to Scott he sort of shrugged in a "Maybe, if we can't come up with a better idea" way. But his response and lack of enthusiam led me to believe he thought there was a better solution, though he has yet to disclose it. 

I believe the purpose of that rod, and for lack of a better word, snubber, is to prevent, or reduce, the banging from play in the axle mounted frame's plastic block in the C-channel, especially if there is no blade attached. 

I completely agree that springs, especially if the spring rate was dialed in, or perhaps a progressive rate spring, could work well. One limiting factor though is the amount of room above the fifth wheel plate for a coil spring.


----------



## redsqwrl

I have a rig with that plow set up on it.

the seller told me that rod was only for loading the blade onto the machine. He cautioned me about tightening it too much. look at it as a positioning rod. When I hang the blade I drive into the poly socket and holder. rotate the rod up and in. hydraulically push down. (I skip this step and use a jack to lift it)

Spin the nut on.
put the caps on the axle tubes.
Raise the blade slightly

back or drive away and let it all get happy then push the blade down and tighten the caps on the bearing.

I do all the forementioned because that is what he told me to do and he pointed to the stack of washers and rubber like it was important as the limiter of sorts going over things. 

He was an iron worker by trade.
He talked of the tucker frame as a flexible truss and that to work as designed everything needs to able to Give.

this machine has 19,000 miles on it and very little cracking that i am used to seeing. Ray may have been onto something.......

$.02 please


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

RS,

That’s an interesting concept. However, using that rod to help in installing the axle mounted frame sure seems like the hard way to do it. The nut on top of the rod is not really all that readily accessible. Using a floor jack, or even some type of lever and fulcrum, strike me as better options. Honestly too, with the plastic block at the rear of the axle mounted frame positioned in the C-channel, and the front of the frame resting on the ground, I’m not sure that rod would even reach the fifth wheel plate, let alone protrude far enough through it to use a nut to pull the rod up. But I’ve never tried...

Scott and I believe the purpose of the rod is to transfer some of the load to the fifth wheel plate. With the blade system installed, If the blade is resting on the ground and then one uses the cat’s hydraulics to raise the blade, the weight of the blade is then transferred to the front of the axle mounted frame. The axle mounted frame can rotate about the axle clamps that secure the frame to the axle, and with weight on the front end, the back end would want to raise up. But the rear of the axle mounted frame is restricted from doing so by the plastic block contained within the C-channel. If the length of the rod were adjusted correctly, it would limit how far down the front of the frame could travel and thus how much upward pressure is on the plastic block within the C-channel.

The square shaped pieces of rubber look like they’re cut from track belting and while that rubber can compress slightly, there really isn’t much "give" in it, rendering the rubber spacers pretty close to solid. In addition to merely stopping the front of the frame from dropping when lifting the blade, it also plays a role as the leaf springs flex, again limiting downward travel and sharing the load.

Using either upper and lower springs (as PP suggested) or an alternative means of shock absorption rather than an abrupt stop, seems like a better option to us. In addition, we want whatever solution we go with to be installed both above and below the fifth wheel plate. I'm told (I haven't ever done this) if you remove the blade and lift cylinder from the axle mounted frame and then drive the machine in that configuration there is an annoying banging sound, probably the play between the plastic block within the C-channel, but perhaps also when the rod setup hits the stop.


----------



## Pontoon Princess

well, we got the answer as to why, the rod was to limit the drop of the frame assembly, behind the pivot/attachement point for the blade, per Jim Tucker, ( retired, former President of Tucker Sno-cat, lead designer/engineer ) he engineered that feature and explained its purpose to us....

"a stack of rubber squares was used to dampen the drop of the frame work and prevent the over rotation of the axle in relationship to the fifth wheel, because of the weight of the blade and frame work hanging on the axle"

my take away is, it is a very simple stop and do not over engineer it, springs would soften the action of the drop.


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

As the Snowzilla project progresses we made a major change in our project strategy. With Thundercat we made what we hoped would be all the modifications, and then took it out for testing. Unfortunately, testing revealed some issues that had to be resolved, and then more testing. Only then did we take it completely apart for blasting and painting. Scott and I think that’s the “right” way, but it also takes a fair bit longer. The majority of the modifications we’re doing to Snowzilla are similar to ones we made to Thundercat, so the original plan was to get the items done that require welding, and then remove the few things that have been installed and send it to be blasted and painted. Most everything else would be installed for the first time after painting. But as we were almost ready to send it to the blaster Scott wasn’t comfortable with all that hadn’t been done. He wanted to spend more time and get more systems preliminarily installed. It’s more time consuming,  and making that change will kill our goal of a Christmas 2019 ready time, but we think the finished product will be better, and so the plan was changed. Unfortunately that means Snowzilla will be “mothballed” for awhile. WBJ1 needs a snowcat to use at Christmas time, and we need to make certain we have one available for him. The 1986 1544 will be the loaner ‘cat, but it needs some repairs and maintenance before it’s ready for that role. My wife has knee replacement surgery scheduled for early November and I’ll be her primary caregiver once she gets home from the hospital. That will severely restrict the amount of time we have for snowcat projects, so we need to get after the 1544 to ensure readiness at Christmas. 

A few posts ago I mentioned I typically write stuff up after the fact as time permits and then make a thread post. That means we’re usually working on something else when a post is made. "Real time”, we're waiting on some parts to finish the hydraulic pump mounting bracket, which also incorporates a belt tensioner. We intend to finish that sub-project before we put Snowzilla on hold. We've also been doing some preliminary work on the wiring system which I’ll explain below. Sadly, no pics in this post.

There are quite a large number of changes to Snowzilla's electrical system; some wires get removed (precious few) and a whole bunch get added. We’re installing a new instrument panel, adding a bunch of additional switches (with four extra switch cut outs for additional future system "growth"). We’re also changing the switch style from the factory Cole Hersee rocker switches, adding a transmission temperature gauge, and it was recently decided to change the existing gauges, too. A nice, clean, logical and professional looking wiring system is the goal. To achieve that, one really needs to spend the time researching the various systems and accessories and determining their respective electrical loads. You also need to measure the length of each wire from the accessory to the power source. That then allows one to select the proper gauge wire. The electrical loads must be compared to the switch amperage rating to see what systems can be controlled with switches, and what systems need relays, and then make a list of what wiring supplies will be needed. That also involves deciding what color wires will serve each function as part of a color-coded schematic. Time spent thinking and organizing is time well spent, as it hopefully prevents having to go back and add stuff that you forgot. (Been there-done that (more than once).) 

It can be difficult to find all kinds of different colored wires, and in various gauges. There are only so many solid colors, so pretty soon you start using wires with stripes. These are actually called “tracers”, and one can get tracers in various colors, which really opens up the number of options. Tracers can be straight or spiral, and you can have multiple tracers on a single wire. For example, a white wire with red and blue spiral tracers. From experience, we prefer spiral tracers as whatever angle you look at the wire, you will see the tracer(s) (with a straight tracer pattern that’s not necessarily the case).  

As you know, Snowzilla has been in the works for quite some time. A few years ago WBJ1 and I discussed vehicle lighting, and various options for different light functions. Shortly thereafter shipping boxes (plural) started arriving with lights. Knowing we didn’t need them for awhile, Scott and I just stacked the various unopened boxes in a safe, out of the way place. Some of the boxes seemed quite large but I chalked that up to the lights being well protected with lots of packing material. Well, to calculate the wiring needs for these lights, we had to dust off the boxes and open ‘em up to see what was inside, and what the electrical requirements are, so we could order the right supplies.

Far be it for me to suggest WBJ1 went overboard, but Scott and I were quite literally incredulous at what we discovered. The image of WBJ1 ordering lights seemed analogous to that of a young child going to a candy store with Grandma who says “Get whatever you want, I’m buying”. Mind you, all of these are LED lights, not incandescent lights. I don’t want to divulge any specific details at this point, but we added up the electrical requirements of the various LED lights…. OMG!

I’ll pause for a moment and say these lights were bought back when the plan was (or maybe I should rephrase that and say, “when Scott and I thought the plan was”)  to use the stock Tucker Chrysler 318 Industrial engine. That engine has a 41 amp alternator, and that number is somewhat ironic because if all the lights are turned on at the same time, the amperage needed to power the abundance of LED lights being installed on Snowzilla is literally twice that! Yup, no kidding, 82.33 amps…just for the lights! I won’t mention the total wattage, but the mathematical formula is volts x amps = watts. It’s a 12 volt system. 12 times 82 = YGTBSM! 

I’ll again point out these are LED lights... and they put out roughly FIVE times more light per watt than incandescent lights. I’m not up on the latest conventions of social media but  #overkill seems about right….

Picture this scenario:

It’s a clear, dark moonless night. A FedEx MD-11 wide-body cargo plane is enroute from the west coast to Memphis for the evening sort, and is presently over Western Colorado...

FedEx 123: “Denver Center, FedEx one twenty three, do you have time for a question?”

Denver ARTCC (Air Route Traffic Control Center): “Sure thing FedEx one twenty three. Go ahead with your question.”

FedEx 123: “Denver, there’s a really bright, white light in the middle of nowhere at our 1 o’clock position for about 10 miles. Any idea what that is?”

Denver ARTCC: “Roger Fedex one twenty three, we had some inquiries about that earlier. The Montrose County Sheriff’s Department said it’s some knucklehead with a snowcat apparently trying to light up the whole county.”

FedEx 123: “Thanks Denver. If that’s his goal, he’s doing a good job.”


----------



## Pontoon Princess

1. hope mrs Blackfoot has a successful surgery and recovery

2. hmmmm, change oders......

3. thinking a onboard Honda generator might the best solution for the lighting up the entire 
    forest....thus creating a light-out


----------



## Track Addict

Must be piles of rigid LEDs?


----------



## The Sweet Wbj1

In my defense, two things.....

One, I don't plan on turning on all the lights at once ALL the time!!  Haha

Two, Blackfoot for some reasons prefers to navigate via candle light. Whenever we finally get to go catting together I figure I will have to have enough lights for both of us!!

Since there were no pics posted. I will post one. This is one of his actual headlights!


----------



## Pontoon Princess

wbuffetjr1 said:


> In my defense, two things.....
> 
> One, I don't plan on turning on all the lights at once ALL the time!!  Haha
> 
> Two, Blackfoot for some reasons prefers to navigate via candle light. Whenever we finally get to go catting together I figure I will have to have enough lights for both of us!!
> 
> Since there were no pics posted. I will post one. This is one of his actual headlights!




pretty sure you will need a stand alone Honda generator to handle your amazing light show, and darn sure the space station will be able to see you.

Houston, Houston, Houston, what the H#ll is going on in Colorado?


----------



## redsqwrl

Don't listen to them. Light it up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5hYZxX2MHU

LED light range is poor, but the quantity of light is fine for our snow cat pace.
I like watching this video when ( like motor oil conversations ) the lighting opinions opinions leak out.

Most are LED Bars. some are incandescent, Only one had oil lamps or was it carbon arc.?

two alternators will handle it, and be able to weld as well..... More HP!


----------



## DAVENET

The biggest thing is the reflective property of the snow in the air.  And even when it's crystal clear out, there is still moisture to glitter & reflect. It tires out the eyes after a while . . .


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

Looks like good ol’ Blackfoot is taking some shots…That’s okay; fire away! 


Red Squirrel, Thanks for the video link. That was nice.

PP, Thanks for the kind wishes regarding Mrs. Blackfoot’s upcoming surgery. This will be her left knee, and her right knee replacement did not go well. The first prosthesis (a press-fit type) had to be removed and a second prosthesis (this time a cement-in style) was installed. Of course that was literally like starting from scratch; with twice the recovery time and twice the physical therapy. It’s fair to say we're concerned. What’s sad is she was a really great skier, and enjoyed it immensely. Her skiing days are probably over, despite the new knees.  

Snowzilla progress has just about come to a stop. I had ordered some parts we needed to complete the hydraulic pump bracket (we typically buy parts from rockauto.com). They arrived and we finished the bracket fabrication last night. I brought the bracket home for some clean-up, media blasting and painting. It’s ready to bolt on to the engine and then the hydraulic pump, new pulley, new belt tensioner and new serpentine belt get installed. Snowzilla’s grille and hood have been reinstalled for temporary storage.

In my last post I mentioned we are changing the switch style from the stock Tucker Cole Hersee rocker switches. Just as with Thundercat, the new switches have a text and a graphic describing their function, and the same lighting logic will be followed: turn on the headlights and all the switch texts light up (so you know what each switch does). Then as switches are turned on individually the graphics light up. The new switches have been ordered and should arrive next week. Due to the plethora of LED lights we needed to have some of the switch rocker covers made up specially to reflect the switch functions and/or the switch graphics on Snowzilla. I think followers of this thread will enjoy the finished product of the new instrument panel, though it will be awhile before we’re back on Snowzilla again. 

While waiting for the new serpentine belts and the belt tensioner to arrive, we started working on the “loaner cat” for WBJ1’s use at Christmas time. That project will have its own thread titled Tucker 1544 IRAN Project. Expect that thread to start soon...


----------



## alryA

Gee, I had miss seeing this great video of the 2018 gathering.  Thanks!





redsqwrl said:


> Don't listen to them. Light it up.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5hYZxX2MHU


----------



## Snowtrac Nome

redsqwrl said:


> Don't listen to them. Light it up.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5hYZxX2MHU
> 
> LED light range is poor, but the quantity of light is fine for our snow cat pace.
> I like watching this video when ( like motor oil conversations ) the lighting opinions opinions leak out.
> 
> Most are LED Bars. some are incandescent, Only one had oil lamps or was it carbon arc.?
> 
> two alternators will handle it, and be able to weld as well..... More HP!



may be for yours but my lightfoot will run circles around the tuckers, thiokols and snowtracs. Forgot the krusty crowd but I hear there is no evidence they actually move under their own power.


----------



## 1boringguy

DAVENET said:


> The biggest thing is the reflective property of the snow in the air.  And even when it's crystal clear out, there is still moisture to glitter & reflect. It tires out the eyes after a while . . .




Amber lights like in the fog a better option?


----------



## 1boringguy

redsqwrl said:


> Don't listen to them. Light it up.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5hYZxX2MHU
> 
> LED light range is poor, but the quantity of light is fine for our snow cat pace.
> I like watching this video when ( like motor oil conversations ) the lighting opinions opinions leak out.
> 
> Most are LED Bars. some are incandescent, Only one had oil lamps or was it carbon arc.?
> 
> two alternators will handle it, and be able to weld as well..... More HP!



Just another thought. We just put some amber strobes that mount under the bumper of a new foreman's pickup. They are about 2"x6", led commercial duty and rated for 9-30 volts. 12 volt system on the pickup of course, but also added the same lights to a piece of equipment with 24 volt system. I swear they are twice as bright running on 24v.


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

I thought I’d add some photos of the hydraulic pump installation and serpentine belt routings after everything was installed. Below is a diagram of the factory belt setup on the GM L94 6.2L engine. 






Since we were not using the power steering pump, it was removed. We also took an angle grinder with a cutoff wheel and whittled away at the large aluminum casting that comprises the mounting bracket for the alternator, idler pulley, and the power steering pump. With the power steering pump removed, we needed to reconfigure the serpentine belt routing and purchase a new belt of the correct length.

The above diagram also shows the A/C compressor and its drive belt. I previously mentioned we mounted the hydraulic pump in roughly the same position. I also mentioned we used a different harmonic balancer that allowed us to mount an auxiliary pulley to the balancer. The new harmonic balancer is smaller in diameter than the original balancer. Because the new balancer under drives the alternator, a smaller alternator pulley was installed to maintain the correct factory crankshaft and alternator RPM relationship. (Especially important in lieu of all the LED lights being installed!)

Here’s a photo of the two alternator pulleys.



Here’s everything installed. Not a great picture of the modified aluminum bracket casting, but you can see the new serpentine belt routing.


(Note: For some reason when I uploaded the photo it rotated 90º CCW. I don't know how to fix/prevent that.)

Here’s photo showing the hydraulic pump mounted to the engine, as well as the tensioner, and auxiliary pulley.



A front view.



Though this setup looks pretty simple, I can assure you there was plenty of head scratching and thought put into the design and fabrication. It turned out very well and the pump and tensioner are very solidly mounted.

Snowzilla is now in temporary storage as we work on the loaner ‘cat (1986 1544) to get it ready for Christmas usage by WBJ1. Once that’s done, Scott and I will finish assembling Thundercat so we can actually use it this winter. But, I’m quite sure we're going to make some additional modifications, which unfortunately means taking some backwards steps before moving forward.


----------



## The Sweet Wbj1

WOW! It looks like you guys have once again out done yourselves!! It looks fantastic! Elegant solutions have a way of making things look simple, IMO.


----------



## Pontoon Princess

all fixed...

thought I would let you know, winter is coming and fast......ask the squirrel, all the nuts have been gathered


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

Pontoon Princess said:


> all fixed...
> 
> thought I would let you know, winter is coming and fast......ask the squirrel, all the nuts have been gathered



 PP, Thanks for fixing the sideways photo. For future reference, how do you do that?

Winter is coming all too fast. We have a LOT of work to do... and not all that much time to do it.


----------



## Pontoon Princess

are you posting the photo from an I phone?


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

Pontoon Princess said:


> are you posting the photo from an I phone?




No. The photos are taken with an iPhone, and uploaded to the cloud. The posts are made from my computer (Macbook).


----------



## olympicorange

Blackfoot Tucker said:


> PP, Thanks for fixing the sideways photo. For future reference, how do you do that?
> 
> Winter is coming all too fast. We have a LOT of work to do... and not all that much time to do it.


…….   and on the east coast,  same here,...   crazy year of events,...  ''juggle time'',....


----------



## olympicorange

Blackfoot Tucker said:


> No. The photos are taken with an iPhone, and uploaded to the cloud. The posts are made from my computer (Macbook).



     ………..   I have the same problem with pics,...  lately I can only load one pic at a time...  better than no pic at all,... I guess..lol….    I love the custom hyd pump bracket.....Sweet,....


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

Snowzilla work resumes. Actually, it resumed some time ago… 

Both Thundercat and Snowzilla got upgraded with Eaton E-Lockers in their differentials. These aren’t cheap, but in certain situations having a selectable locking differential can be VERY handy. Neither Scott nor I have much experience installing these, so we did things the old-fashioned way…by the book. That means using a dial indicator, a micrometer, and an inch-pound torque wrench. VERY time consuming getting all the tolerances within Dana’s specifications, as well as the ring and pinion contact pattern. We removed the axle assemblies with the leaf springs attached and supported the axle housings on pipe stands so we could work on them comfortably standing up. We used the bridge crane in Scott’s shop as the E-locker carriers had to go in and out of the axle housings MULTIPLE times as various shim thicknesses were adjusted and tolerances checked. (The carrier can easily be lifted  by hand, but using the crane really helps in preventing mashed fingers.) One can purchase special “set up bearings” which have been honed slightly so they can be installed and removed by hand as one adjusts the respective shim packs. After the final shim thicknesses are determined, new bearings are then pressed into position. Rather than purchase set up bearings, we used an old set of bearings and a die grinder with a small flapper wheel to remove some material and get the bearings to fit by hand. New bearings, seals and new pinion nuts were installed during final assembly. We’re slow, no doubt about it!  

In the installation process we discovered some issues that had to be addressed. Snowzilla had a cracked spring perch, as well as a surprising amount of rust inside both axle housings. There was some other carnage as well. We surmise earlier in its life a pinion nut got loose allowing the pinion gear to contact the carrier. The ring and pinion gears were replaced, but the carrier still had the battle scars.  Three of the four axle's differential covers showed “up close and personal” interactions with fixed objects. If you go off-road, or off-trail, with your snowcat, the snow can hide things just underneath the surface , and those things, such as rocks or stumps, can cause damage if you hit them. We decided some protection was wise, and all four axles got new differential covers made from 3/8" steel plate (purchased from Ruff Stuff Specialties).  Many aftermarket differential covers are made from cast aluminum. They certainly look nice, and the aluminum does a better job of transferring heat from the gear lube, but if you run into a rock, that nice looking cover is likely to crack and if the differential fluid leaks out - you're done. Snowzilla’s spring eye “bushings” looked like heater hose and a local spring shop was unable to source new, correctly sized bushings. That meant new main leaves. But the process of forming the eyes in the individual spring leaves requires they use their furnace, which they only do when they can justify the expense. Translation…ten day delay…and that’s after the delay for the new special ordered bushings to arrive.

Pictures!

Snowzilla’s cracked spring perch.



One of the mashed differential covers. (This was the worst and is (obviously) from Thundercat.)



Note the street elbow installed in a Snowzilla diff cover by a previous owner. The concept is to raise the oil level inside the differential.



Scars on one of Snowzilla’s carriers.



Since we had the axles removed, we decided to copy a feature on the 1544. It has special spring U-bolt plates that have a tie-down loop incorporated and they make the process of securing a Tucker to a trailer a fair bit easier.  We thought it was a clever design and Scott and I spent some time drawing it out on his CAD system (Scott did the drawing, I "helped"). Then we had a local vendor plasma cut them out of 1/2” steel plate before Scott added the bends with his hydraulic press. You might think the dimensions of the axle diameter and spring width were the same between the 1980 and 1986 machines, and thus we could merely copy the 1544’s plates. But you’d be wrong: both are different. We had enough made for both machines and got quotes from vendors for both plasma cutting and water jet cutting. Though the water jet process results in a nicer finished product, the cost was about double. 

We erected a reusable, temporary paint booth and a mutual friend known as “The Evil Jester” painted a bunch of parts for us; first with a catalyzed epoxy primer and then he sprayed the top coat. They turned out surprisingly well, but there was a lot of work involved in prepping, hanging and masking all the individual parts. We believe if you’re going to go to all that work to take everything apart, it just doesn’t seem right to not continue the effort through the painting process, and that means using quality materials, too ($$$). 

Some of the parts after primer was applied.



I had to include a pic of “The Evil Jester”. Believe me the name is appropriate; he is exceptionally quick witted… 



These are the tie-down/U-bolt plates I mentioned.



One of Snowzilla’s axles after painting and reassembly with new diff cover. Diff cover bolts are new stainless steel socket head cap screws with AN washers. Note the higher location of the fill plug.



After axle shaft installation. New Stover nuts and lock washers.



Unfortunately work, and progress, has come to a screeching halt. Summit County, Utah (where I live) issued a mandatory stay-at-home order, and that was followed up by both a voluntary state-wide order, and then another mandatory order in Salt Lake County, where Scott’s shop is.

My wife and I decided to “evacuate" to our second home in Southern Utah. There were (are) a number of maintenance projects we need to get done here so it seemed like the smart thing to do. BUT, it means no Snowzilla progress, and Scott and I have a LOT of work to do before Sun Valley 2021.... 

In the meantime I’m trying to think of parts that we will need, and ordering them so hopefully there will be fewer parts-related delays when the build resumes.


----------



## The Sweet Wbj1

Basically TLBFT is saying it is his fault if Snowzilla isn't ready and Wbjr1 doesn't make it to the Seranade in 2021!


----------



## Pontoon Princess

wbuffetjr1 said:


> Basically TLBFT is saying it is his fault if Snowzilla isn't ready and Wbjr1 doesn't make it to the Seranade in 2021!



hmmmmmmmmm, hey Jr. you are either saying the Blackfoot tucker shops are never satisfied and will forever submitting change orders, thus no machine will ever be finished, or you are getting your excuses memorized and out in the public, so you have cover when you do not attend the 'great snow cat serenade'

this will fun to watch which bear pokes which bear more often.....


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

Pontoon Princess said:


> hmmmmmmmmm, hey Jr. you are either saying the Blackfoot tucker shops are never satisfied and will forever submitting change orders, thus no machine will ever be finished, or you are getting your excuses memorized and out in the public, so you have cover when you do not attend the 'great snow cat serenade'
> 
> this will fun to watch which bear pokes which bear more often.....



PP,

Notwithstanding the deleterious effects of the stay-at-home orders on our Snowzilla completion deadline, the way I read WBJ1's post is he has admitted he won't have any excuse to miss Sun Valley 2021 if Snowzilla is completed....


----------



## mikemikelle

> Basically TLBFT is saying it is his fault if Snowzilla isn't ready and Wbjr1 doesn't make it to the Seranade in 2021!



Thought that corked cat had been banned for repowering?? (fake news)


----------



## Pontoon Princess

mikemikelle said:


> Thought that corked cat had been banned for repowering?? (fake news)



mike mike,

fyi, well known secret, that really isn't a secret, the zilla shop, is home to copo cats...

if you want power, they have power...


----------



## The Sweet Wbj1

Pontoon Princess said:


> mike mike,
> 
> fyi, well known secret, that really isn't a secret, *the zilla shop*, is home to copo cats...
> 
> if you want power, they have power...



The Zilla Shop has an official name that has been kept secret. I keep waiting for the reveal!! 

POKE POKE


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

Keep poking WBJ1… 

BTW, Still waiting for you to commit to Sun Valley 2021. No political double-speak, or "weasel words”, if you prefer. Just a nice simple declaration…. 

But, don’t even think of trying to go incognito…it would never work. I  think you'd be spotted in a second: if people didn’t recognize you immediately from your resemblance to an NFL fullback/ human steamroller, once you said three words - your accent would give you away! 

Just think of the (revisionist history) fun you could have with Mikemikelle (at my expense). 

Mike: “WBJ1, I can’t believe you “corked" that nice Tucker with a "cheater" motor….

WBJ1: "Mike, it wasn’t my idea. Blame BFT. It’s all his fault…I would have been perfectly happy with the stock 318.” (Except we all know you wouldn’t have been.) 

But with enough beer... you might convince Mike… at least for that night.


----------



## Pontoon Princess

secretly obtained from a source that wishes to remain anonymous, and confirmed, this is the power plant for Snowzilla, a Callaway V-16...and just delivered to the Zilla shops, Salt Lake City, Utah

uncorked! eh Mike

ain't no 318...


----------



## Jim_S RIP

Pontoon Princess said:


> secretly obtained from a source that wishes to remain anonymous, and confirmed, this is the power plant for Snowzilla, a Callaway V-16...and just delivered to the Zilla shops, Salt Lake City, Utah
> 
> uncorked! eh Mike
> 
> ain't no 318...


----------



## Cidertom

I was wondering who took the engine out of my pt boat...


----------



## Pontoon Princess

Pontoon Princess said:


> secretly obtained from a source that wishes to remain anonymous, and confirmed, this is the power plant for Snowzilla, a Callaway V-16...and just delivered to the Zilla shops, Salt Lake City, Utah
> 
> uncorked! eh Mike
> 
> ain't no 318...and it answers the age old question, how much horsepower do you need to go 5 MPH
> 
> so cider tom, guess you had repowered your PT boat, originally, had Packard V-12's and three of them


----------



## 1boringguy

That surely comes with a 'Hold My Beer' rear window sticker.


----------



## Cidertom

yes, well I traded my boat to some guy named McHale for a mine he had. He got the  craft, I got the shaft.


----------



## PJL

Callaway V-16 specs




16 cylinder, 90° V-angle , aluminum cylinder block with iron liners, aluminum cylinder heads
4.0 liter displacement (243.6 cid), naturally aspirated , electronic fuel injection
Bore: 75.50 mm (2.972″). Stroke: 55.75 mm (2.195″)
Compression Ratio: 11.5:1
Valvetrain: DOHC, 5 valves per cylinder, patented camshaft drive system
Maximum horsepower: 550 bhp @ 10,000 rpm (2.26 bhp/cid, 138 bhp/L)
Peak Torque: 340 lb-ft @ 8,500 rpm
Maximum engine speed: 10,500 rpm
Length: 926 mm (36.45″). Width: 540 mm (21.25″). Height to top of throttle body trumpets: 500 mm (19.70″)
Dry weight: 152 kg (334 lb)
Dry sump lubrication, triple plate 5.5″ diameter clutch, electronic coolant pump


----------



## mikemikelle

Those aint headers, they be headers and footers!!


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## 1boringguy

That's what I'm talking about, a 10,000 rpm cat, sounding like a tweaked weedeater going through the forest.


----------



## loggah

Lots of itty-bitty parts to go wrong with one of those !!!!! I guess simple,and reliable is not in the picture !!


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

So... an update after many months:

Due to governmental Covid-19 restrictions, my wife and I stayed away from both Summit County, Utah and SLC - "hiding out" in Southern Utah. Of course this also served to put the project further behind schedule. Here’s what Scott and I have been up to once work resumed on Snowzilla.

During my hiatus, Sno-Drifter very kindly called me and pointed out a flaw in the Tucker spring perch design, and he suggested how we might reinforce them. When I returned to Northern Utah Scott and I removed both axle assemblies from under Snowzilla to modify the spring perches per Sno-Drifter’s suggestions. In Snowzilla’s case, that meant ruining the relatively new black paint on the axle housings. But his suggestion also applied to Thundercat, and those axle housings had not been repainted after the E-Locker installation.

Here’s a pic of an unmodified Tucker spring perch on a Thundercat axle housing. Not a whole lot of strength there to resist axle wrap from engine torque... 



After modification. The side plates add a lot of additional strength. (Sno-Drifter deserves the credit for this modification!)



The engine WBJ1 sent us had no exhaust manifolds, so we needed to source a set that would fit. eBay came through with some new LS series engine manifolds that looked like they would work. The key phrase in that sentence is “looked like”, because once we got them in hand the right side fit okay, but the left side had issues. Scott suggested we have the flanges that bolt to the cylinder head milled at an angle so the bottom of the manifold would protrude farther out from the engine, which would provide the clearance we needed. That change also required that the surfaces the exhaust manifold to cylinder head bolts contact be spot faced so they are parallel with the newly milled flanges. The OEM bolts are somewhat notorious for breaking, so we bought ARP 12 point stainless steel bolts, which are substantially stronger than the originals. 

Here’s a pic of the left side manifold installed with those fancy (and expensive) 12 point ARP SS bolts.
 


Another issue to be dealt with was the radiator. Some readers may recall the cooling issues Scott and I dealt with in the Thundercat project. Basically, I had contacted Griffin Thermal Products “Technical Support Department" and purchased the combination radiator and fan setup they recommended. Supposedly it cools 550 horsepower….except it doesn’t cool substantially less than that in a snowcat application (And I made a point to explain the snowcat's requirements in the conversation). We were unable to get that radiator to work adequately, and replaced it with a Ron Davis Racing radiator that actually does the job. But that meant we had an expensive radiator sitting around collecting dust, and WBJ1 wanted to try that in Snowzilla. Naturally there were complications....

The engine in Thundercat has the radiator inlet on the left and the outlet on the right, which also means the filler neck is on the right. There’s also a port for a heater hose return line on the right side. The L94 engine has both the inlet and outlet on the right side, there’s no heater hose port, but there is a steam port fitting for a line from the intake manifold, also on the right side. If the inlet and outlet are on the same side, one needs a “two pass radiator” as well. And of course the filler neck needs to be on the left which also means turning it around 180º so the overflow line is on the rear of the radiator.  Scott spent some time carefully cutting out the various parts and relocating them, as well as adding a baffle to the right side tank to convert the radiator to a two pass configuration. It turned out quite well.

Here’s the filler neck after being cut off from the right side tank, the neck itself removed from the top of the tank, rotated 180º, and re-welded to the top of the tank.



Newly installed on the opposite side. 



Here’s the relocated inlet port. If you look lower on the tank, you can see the baffle Scott welded into the tank. 

 

As always, we're farther along than the post indicates, but some forum members have been prodding me to update the thread so I thought it better to get at least something out there. More soon...


----------



## 1boringguy

BFT,

Thanks for sharing, and also Sno Drifter, I'm about to go to powdercoat with my diffs but now I'll definitely want to make that mod to the spring perches first.


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

1boringguy said:


> BFT,
> 
> Thanks for sharing, and also Sno Drifter, I'm about to go to powdercoat with my diffs but now I'll definitely want to make that mod to the spring perches first.



1BG, 

I'm glad to have been of help, and very glad I didn't delay any longer in making the long overdue post! 

I find Sno-Drifter to be a tremendous wealth of knowledge, wisdom and experience. When he kindly offers some thoughts... I listen...because I will definitely learn something.


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

We also needed to come up with an air intake system which incorporates an air filter, a mass airflow sensor, some tubing and a mounting system. Of course all of this has to fit within the available space. We did this with Thundercat and and it was surprisingly time consuming, utilizing various lengths and angles of polished aluminum tubing, then welding several parts together. We were looking for a simpler solution with Snowzilla, but it needed to be functional and look good, too.

Top view



Right side view (you can also see the new steam port fitting below the radiator inlet on top).



Here’s a shot with the air filter removed showing the diagonal support bracket attached to the alternator mounting casting. (The mass air flow sensor is not bolted in position.)



Snowzilla left the factory with the standard Tucker exhaust configuration which has a single muffler running along the cab’s right side A pillar. Especially after using the 1544 at Christmas time with a similar exhaust configuration, WBJ1 wanted a dual exhaust system out the rear. The factory exhaust routing has a good sized triangular section removed from the right side of the hood for the exhaust pipe. With a dual underfloor system leaving that gaping hole seemed amateurish. So Scott used a piece of aluminum salvaged from the rear door skin that we had replaced earlier, and bent a flange at the bottom to match the factory hood flange (adds rigidity to the bottom horizontal edge of the hood). Then he tig welded the filler panel in position.

Outside. 



Inside



Procedurally, we don’t much care for Tucker’s practice of riveting raw aluminum to raw steel. This is guaranteed to result in galvanic corrosion, so we drill out all the existing rivets, separate the steel and aluminum parts, remove the rust and corrosion, then paint the contact areas before installing new stainless steel closed end rivets. More work, and the rivets are more expensive, too but the result is absolutely worth it.

Here the rivets that attach the hood sections to the center hinge have been drilled out and you can see the rust and galvanic corrosion where the hood has been pulled back and the hinge exposed.


----------



## The Sweet Wbj1

Can't LOVE this enough!


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

The paint on Snowzilla was original when I bought it, and it had not been repainted or even touched up, since it left the factory. It was badly faded, had many scratches in it and really needed some new paint. The modifications we did resulted in further damaging the paint in some areas, and the modifications themselves weren’t painted either. WBJ1 would have been fine getting it without being repainted at all. But this "has our name on it" and Scott and I take pride in our work. Sending it unpainted would look like the project was done by a couple of buffoons (like the youtube Tucker LS conversion videos). 

To do a proper job it needed to be media blasted. Most fortunately there’s a couple of guys who have a blasting company less than 1/2 a mile from Scott’s shop. To get a better job, we stripped Snowzilla completely and loaded the various parts on a trailer.

Literally nothing else to remove. (The transfer case is on the shop floor.) The top of the frame is rusty. That’s because Tucker assembled the machine without any thought to rust mitigation, and painted it in an assembled state.  




Loaded on a trailer with some of the parts. Getting everything to the blaster required multiple trips.



While Snowzilla was away at the blaster (sounds better than saying “getting blasted”), Scott and I spent some time working on the wiring. Snowzilla is getting a new instrument panel with new VDO gauges, including an added transmission temperature gauge, a new hour meter and all new Carling Contura XIV rocker switches replacing the stock Cole Hersee switches. Just like with Thundercat, the new switches have illumination for the switch function legend, and the switch function symbol.The legend lights up when the headlights are turned on, and the symbol lights up when the switch is in the on position. The heater fan has two positions, high and low speeds, and the symbol lights up when either of those is selected. Snowzilla has a four headlight grille and the lower headlights illuminate with the headlight switch in one of the on positions, and all four headlights illuminate in the other position, along with a blue LED High Beam indicator light. The function symbol lights up in either of the on positions.

Here's the new instrument panel with most of the new stuff installed. Despite having a ridiculous amount of LED lighting on Snowzilla, WBJ1 wanted additional locations for electrical system “growth”. Blank switch covers are installed in the holes for future additional switches. I have no idea what WBJ1 might be planning. Maybe some under-cat disco lighting and some "floor fog”? If you look at the large hole hole below and to the right of the tachometer you'll see it isn't round, but rather has two straight sides that are parallel. That hole is for the ignition switch, and the switch body has straight sides. Making the hole fit the switch body prevents the ignition switch from turning inside the hole, which it could do if the switch were installed in a round hole and someone turns the ignition key a little too forcefully. 



Here’s the backside showing some of the instrument panel wiring. The lighting system logic requires some extra wires. The switch function legend power comes from the headlight switch and the white wire with red spiral tracer is daisy-chained between the various switches and the gauges for them to light up as well. The black wire is a ground wire, and that too is daisy-chained. The gauges also need fused system power and that is the red wire. It gets connected to the ignition switch (which is yet to be installed). When you look at the photo it looks like it’s an easy thing to do. It’s not difficult, but cutting all the wires, stripping the insulation, crimping on the terminal ends and finally using a heat gun on the heat shrink tubing is surprisingly time consuming. Part of the concept is an easy-to-understand wiring logic and the other part is trying to do quality workmanship.


----------



## The Sweet Wbj1

I am excited to see some paint!!


----------



## DAVENET

If you would, please continue to add details of the electrical build out. Mine won't be that 'upscale', but I like looking at second (and third) ideas, thoughts & opinions. Mine can only go up from where it's at!


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

DAVENET said:


> If you would, please continue to add details of the electrical build out. Mine won't be that 'upscale', but I like looking at second (and third) ideas, thoughts & opinions. Mine can only go up from where it's at!



Dave, I’ll try and do that when the project gets back to a wiring phase. My posts on this thread are always behind where we are “real time”. Right now we’re painting Snowzilla, and like so much else, it’s a slow process.

I can tell you the logic of the switch light system requires diodes to prevent back feeding on certain switches. Diodes are essentially check valves, which allow electrical current to flow in only one direction.

Some circuits also use relays. Electrical switches are rated for a given number of amps. The ones we are using are rated at 20 amps. If the item being powered draws more than 20 amps, one should install a relay to power the circuit. The switch is used to turn the relay on or off directing power to the circuit. Some electrical components are rated in amps and some in watts. The formulas to convert are simple. Volts x Amps = Watts or, knowing the watts and wanting to convert to amps, Watts / Volts = Amps. It’s a 12 volt system, so divide the number of watts by 12. Typical systems that use relays are powerful lights, horns, fuel pumps, electric cooling fans, etc. It’s very important to size individual wires for their electrical load (amps), and the length of the wire. The longer the wire, the greater the size (called gauge) it needs to be. But lower gauge numbers are larger diameter wires. There are easily found charts on the Internet that provide the correct wire sizing information. 

Another item for consideration is how you want to connect wires. That is, what type of terminal ends do you want to use. There are a fair number of options and I’d suggest doing a little research to determine which type will best meet your needs. We decided to use the Delphi/Packard Weather Pack system. They require some special tools, but once you have the tools and the various parts involved you can make factory looking connections that are fairly weather resistant and yet come apart quite easily. Some automotive connections are downright miserable (the style used by Chrysler/Jeep seem to be the worst). The Weather Pack system offers lots of options. (I think the Deutsch system is probably better, but it’s also more expensive.) 

One of my pet peeves is crappy electrical tape. Even 3M, which is generally known for making quality products, makes some (IMHO) lousy tapes. For Thundercat we bought an engine conversion wiring harness from Howell Engine Developments and the tape they use seems to work better than the stuff (including 3M) that I had been buying. I called Howell and asked to buy some tape from them. They obliged and sent several rolls of tape made by a company I had never even heard of, Plymouth Yongle.

Do you want to run your wires in split loom? If so, realize this too comes in different quality levels. Typically the cheap stuff melts at low temperatures and the better stuff is more temperature resistant. Ordering it online can mean significant minimum quantities. That’s frustrating when you only need a few feet of a particular size. I have found I can get shorter lengths at a NAPA store in SLC. The price per foot is higher, but who wants to buy 100’ if you need three feet? In my experience the better split loom has a stripe running down the outside of the split loom.

If you’re building a new harness from scratch and aren’t trying to replicate an existing harness, you’ll need to decide how individual circuits are powered. For example do you want the switch to be functional if the ignition switch is off (like the horn or headlights)? Or maybe you want it to work in accessory, or perhaps only in the on position. 

Time spent thinking about and designing your wiring system is time well spent. Otherwise you’ll be taking it apart to revise it. Ask me how I know!


----------



## Cidertom

NOT to hijack the thread, but on electrical my 2Cents.  After spending 30+ years wiring Fire Trucks, ambulances etc, where reliability has to be good: I think the relay should be the usual.  If you have room, relays allow smaller wires in the actual dash, and then mount the relays where they can be gotten to.  Also I try to identify a critical bus which usually has self resetting circuit breakers and an aux bus with fuses.  by locating power management close to the relays, troubleshooting can be easier.  Also the relay sockets accept 1/4 " male tab disconnects, so a jumper to measure circuit current, or an emergency bypass is easy.   



we now return you to the program in progress


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

Tom,

I think that’s great advice, and thank you for sharing it.

While I hit Tucker pretty hard on some of their manufacturing processes and quality issues, I think they did a good job on the wiring. I suspect they had harnesses supplied to them by a vendor, and they used essentially one harness regardless of the options the customer ordered. (Though probably a second harness for Diesel powered machines.) The wires were all there, and run to the appropriate locations, but weren’t connected. For example they would run a wire from the electrical panel to the location where a roof mounted spotlight would be installed and taped it to the inside of the roof. Upholstery would be installed over the wire. It would not be connected to the electrical panel but would be easy to connect if someone later wanted to add the spotlight. Tucker didn’t use fuses, but rather the auto resetting circuit breakers you mentioned. 

Here’s a pic of Snowzilla’s panel when I bought it. Mostly stock, though owners along the way have added some wires.

View attachment 130770

We completely rewired Thundercat, and we added several electrical circuits. Bosch style relays are mounted on the top of the panel and on the underside of the top as well. The fuses on the lower right are for the computerized engine’s conversion harness. (There are also some large relays for the electric fuel pump and the two electric fans that are mounted close to the engine’s computer on the opposite side of the cab.)

View attachment 130771

But we subsequently decided to add even more circuits, and there wasn’t enough "real estate" for the additional required circuit breakers. Doing a little Internet research I learned that John Deere used a narrow style stud mount circuit breaker almost exactly 1/2 the width of the ones we were using. They were slightly different in length, but the mounting brackets could be easily bent just a little to accommodate the narrower CBs. We removed one row of the wide style and replaced them with the narrower versions. I will say while the wider ones are easy to find, the narrow ones are somewhat harder to locate. I bought them from a company called Crimp Supply.

View attachment 130772

Doing my Internet research I stumbled on this information from GM. I think it’s an excellent resource discussing proper wiring practices and procedures with lots of drawings and illustrations:

https://www.gmupfitter.com/files/media/photo/842/2018_Elec_BPrac_093017.pdf


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

Back from the blaster! I should point out that ideally all the orange would be gone, however the blaster was concerned about warping the panels, and especially so when blasting the inside of the cab -because he can only get so far away from the surface. So he tried to stay away from the middle of the panels on the inside. That will all get covered with both sound deadening material and then upholstery.

View attachment 130773

The blasting process of course removes the paint, but the force of the blast media hitting the surface will result in any weakened areas being exposed.  This is the bottom of the grille. The square tube with the newly exposed rust hole rests on the Tucker frame. 

View attachment 130774

The damaged section of square tube had to be cut out and replaced with a new piece of square tube. Here’s a close up shot of the damaged section after being cut away from the grille. After Scott welded in a new length of square tube we drilled drain holes for water. 

View attachment 130775

Blasting can also reveal heretofore unknown issues. This is the bottom side of the front fifth wheel plate (aka: turntable). Nice cracks!  Of course they were repaired. The dark spots on the surface are sweat from yours truly. Yes, poor old Blackfoot was sweating in the summer heat. 

View attachment 130776

Next came the laborious process of priming and painting all of Snowzilla’s parts and pieces. We use a catalyzed epoxy primer that chemically cures more than dries. It’s very hard once cured and has excellent rust and corrosion resistance. We would lay out various parts on some boards and prime one side. After the paint had cured enough, we moved them outside so the shop could be used for normal work during the day. Then we’d do it all over again the next night. I'm the chemist, responsible for mixing the primer, the catalyst and the reducer and Scott sprays the primer. 

Here’s a bunch of parts laid out after priming.

View attachment 130777

A close-up of the gas tank.

View attachment 130778

Remember what it looked like when we first got Snowzilla? (Yes, the entire side of the tank is rusty. Tucker never bothered to paint it.) The “quality" of that level of workmanship is self-evident, and needs no commentary from me. 

View attachment 130779

The rather pathetic patch on the top of the tank done by a previous owner.

View attachment 130780

Here’s a pic of the tank after we had cut out part of the top and welded in a new section.

View attachment 130781

When it came time to prime the cab, our friend Justin (aka: "The Evil Jester”, previously introduced in an earlier post in this thread) suspended the cab from the shop crane in front while he supported the rear of the cab with a forklift. He was able to adjust the height of the cab and frame for optimal access for spraying. You can see the inside roof panels still have a fair amount of orange left after the blasting that I explained above.

View attachment 130782


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

WBJ1 and I had many, many conversations regarding paint and colors, and I’ll tell you; Henry Ford was a genius! I should have taken a page from him and told WBJ1 “You can have any color you want…as long as it’s Omaha Orange”. We discussed various military camouflage paint colors and camo patterns. A good friend of mine designed a camo pattern on some pictures I had sent him to see where the color changes would be in a semi-tactical but good looking pattern. Then it was back to orange…. Then Mrs. WBJ1 saw a new Toyota 4Runner in a color that she loved. The paint store I go to needed a paint code. I called the Toyota dealer to find the code. They wanted a VIN to tell me the code. I didn’t have a VIN. WBJ1 then provided the proper code and I went back to the paint store. The guy at the paint store, Eddy, is truly an awesome guy to work with and very kindly mixed up a small sample…and it didn’t look at all like the factory Toyota colors on the Internet. Eddy then suggested I ask WBJ1 to choose a color from a Federal Standard Color fan. WBJ1 obliged and texted me the code number of his choice of color. Back to the paint store and I tell Eddy the FSN color code. Eddy says “Ah... that color is a flat. Does he really want a flat gloss”? I think probably not... and ask WBJ1. Nope, he wants a gloss. Due to the paint color formulations, Eddy can’t mix a small complimentary sample, but rather the minimum is a quart. I ask WBJ1 about buying a quart and he says go for it. Back to the paint store and Eddy mixes a quart and puts some paint on card stock to mail to WBJ1 for approval. (The color seems a much closer match to the Internet photos of the Toyota factory color.) I opened the can of paint and texted WBJ1 a photo of the inside of the lid. He pronounces it “perfect”, however I want him to make the call from the no-kidding paint on the card that’s in the mail. He gets it a few days later and the color still passes muster. Hooray!!!

View attachment 130867

Yes, this was a PITA, but it would be much worse to go to the time, trouble and expense of painting Snowzilla a rather unique color…and then Mr. and Mrs. WBJ1 don’t like it. (No-kidding 50 years ago my Dad ordered a new truck and of course the salesman asks what color he wants. Dad, without looking at the brochure that shows the various available colors, says “green”. He’s thinking it’s going to be a nice, dark forest green, but when the truck arrives it’s a rather hideous sea foam green. Lesson learned for junior (me): get the color right!)

If you haven’t bought automotive paint lately, get ready for some serious sticker shock when you see the prices. Thundercat got painted with high quality automotive single-stage red, and it was OMG expensive. WBJ1 is trying to keep costs down (except when it comes to buying LED lights) and there’s no way he’d go for such an expensive paint. So, we'll be using a high quality, catalyzed  Industrial and Marine coating made by PPG and recommended by Eddy. I’ll also mention that from the time Eddy originally quoted the price of the paint, PPG has had two price increases.  Eddy very kindly said he’d honor the original quote. It is so nice dealing with people who treat you as a valued customer, as opposed to a resource to be exploited!

There was actually quite a bit of work involved in getting the cab and frame ready for the color coats of paint. The cab sides are basically flat sheets of 16 gauge steel. Unlike body panels on a car or truck that are pressed in dies to give them various body lines, these are just flat. Those body lines give the shape some interest, but they add considerable strength as well. The Tucker cab just uses the steel sheet metal skip welded to various cab structural members. Auto manufacturers will typically use structural members which are also stamped and they’ll have flanges on them where the sheet metal attaches, and they use multiple spot welds to hold the two together. Tucker uses tubular steel frame members and as you can’t access the inside of the tube to spot weld the sheet metal to the cab, you skip weld it. The spot weld certainly creates heat, but it’s much more localized than skip welding, and the skip welding process causes more distortion in the panel than if it were spot welded. Between the distortion from the welding processes and dents picked up over the last 40 years, we had a fair amount of work to do. We did not try and make it perfect, and WBJ1 was encouraging us to “spray it already”. But we did try and take the worst of the flaws out and make it at least presentable. In earlier posts in this thread I pointed out poor workmanship on Tucker’s part in not painting, or even priming, various components. I assure you - we took no such shortcuts; even to the point of filling small dents and rust pits on the cab side that is obscured by the gas tank. (Tucker, didn’t even bother to paint this surface.) Most of the time we left the cab on a trailer and moved it in and out of the shop to work on it. But when it was time to spray the final coats of primer before spraying color we suspended the cab and frame from the two shop cranes. 

On the trailer...

View attachment 130868

Suspended from the two cranes.

View attachment 130869

The cab side and fuel tank protective shield.

View attachment 130870

A before pic. This was taken immediately after the fuel tank was removed and you can see all the assorted stuff that accumulated there over the years. Note the complete lack of paint on the side of the cab and the fuel tank shield. 

You can't make this stuff up. Honestly, if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes, I'm not sure I would have believed Tucker's quality was this poor. Imagine being the original purchaser, who paid a lot of money for this machine, and seeing that level of "workmanship".

View attachment 130871

A shot of the frame from inside the cab. Yes, those surfaces will all be covered, but painting them is doing it “the right way” in our opinion. If you look at the intersection between the sheet metal on the sides and the frame members you can see a slight gap. Tucker did not apply any seam sealer to this joint and water can get down between the two components. After spraying the epoxy primer we applied seam sealer to the joint. I had intended to take a pic after the sealer was applied - but I forgot to. 

View attachment 130872


----------



## Cidertom

So,a question: With all the prep paint and such, do you have any issues with grounding?  Just wondering if you are going to have to add bonding jumpers or return wires.  Or is there enough fasteners that it isn't an issue? I'm going to be dealing with this next year and would rather learn from others.



FWIW

 I decided on my rewire to use return wires where possible to keep electrolysis minimized between the aluminum and the steel frame. But I was dealing with a few points where steel was supported by aluminum which was supported by steel. I don't know if return wires are overkill or not.


----------



## Nikson

going to be beautiful...


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Just some thoughts after running/owning big rigs for over 20 years.

Most big trucks (Pete, KW, Western Star, Freightliner) use a ground for each circuit and not the frame or body....

Grounding through body panels/frame and such can lead to ground issues after time due to corrosion and other degradation of things.

Bad grounds can literally drive you nuts unless you happen to stumble onto the break.

If you run all the lights or ??? equipment grounds to a common bus bar and then use a common ground wire back to the battery/engine and the same scheme all the way you  can eliminate loads of grief later on.

The practice of using the chassis as the ground plane has other problems too..

Electrolysis can set up and his can add even more troubles.

Electricity will find a way.....back feeding through wherever is can to complete its path to ground.

I had a 1986 Chevy 3500 that one day started making the wipers run when you accelerated hard.

Drove me nuts.....Finally after thinking about it I went searching....I had replaced the HEI Distributor cap and parts a week or so before....and shortly after the gremlin appeared.

Broken ground wire from the coil in the HEI cap .....Fixed the issue and the gremlin was fixed.

Broken or bad grounds can make gauges wiggle when the signals are on....
Step on the brake and other lights dim or come on......

Dedicated grounds are simply not a bad way to go.

Why do most machinery builders (Cars and trucks) use the chassis as the ground    Quick and CHEAP    The builder could care less about your troubles down the trail years later.

Nice heavy multi conductor rubber jacketed cable is easy to get and fairly cheap.... Grab a color (White) and dedicate it as GROUND for the machine....Or whatever color you like....and make it your standard for ground and then wire the thing up......

If an issue shows up you can wrangle it out pretty quick and isolate the problem.....and not have all sorts of collateral crap to drive you crazy.

Many grounds in the auto industry are put in places that are nearly impossible to get to and unless you have a detailed factory schematic that shows where they are...YOU ARE FOULED.....

Make your design easy to deal with and even easier to fix if there is an issue.

If you think it through and make it good....you will likely never have an issue due to degradation of the system.

It is a good idea to ground the engine to the frame, the body to the frame and use this plan all the way.
Just ground the components to a common separately grounded bus bar that is preferably Sealed up well to keep water out.

A plastic junction box works well...just stay away from the cheap ones that are not sealed.... add a water drain if you like just in case some gets in so it won't cause issues.
Think about the WHAT IF scenario WHEN YOU ARE WAY THE HELL OUT IN THE BOONIES....The extra hour or so to plan ahead and toss in a bit of overkill will not even matter....and you will kick yourself if you have to deal with issues that could have been prevented in the comfort of your shop....not dealing with them in the snow somewhere....

Just my thoughts.


----------



## alryA

You got the right snowy rivers.  Ground everything with a wire now and have less grief tomorrow.


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

Snowy Rivers,

Thanks for the thorough and detailed explanation. First Class! 

Tom, 

You’re absolutely right about all the primer and paint creating potential grounding problems. As yet, we haven’t really gotten very far with Snowzilla’s wiring. We’ve got the instrument panel probably 80% done and we have spent a fair amount of time reconfiguring the conversion harness for the L94 engine (adding some wires and removing others). We have also run most of the other wires to their respective locations and left them long. But the majority of the work is ahead of us. When we re-wired Thundercat, we ran a number of ground wires and proper circuit grounding was something Scott emphasized all along. We added a couple of welded studs to the frame and some ground wires are secured there.

This is the one in front.

View attachment 130908

One of our Tucker design complaints is they weld the bed to the frame. We made our bed removable, and it’s secured to the frame with six Grade 8, 1/2-20 bolts. But we (Scott) wasn’t confident that would be adequate grounding, hence the location of the rear grounding stud. Something we also did was to install Weather Pack connectors on all the wires going to the bed close by. The concept being if you want to remove the bed, all you have to do is disconnect the fuel lines, remove the bolts and separate the Weather Pack connectors. 

Here’s a pic showing the above. If it seems like that’s a lot of wires for a bed, that’s true - but we have a bunch of stuff back there: fuel tank quantity sender, bed illumination lights, back up lights, tail lights and connections for a wired winch control for the hydraulic winch. 

View attachment 130909


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## Snowy Rivers

Looking great.
Forethought at it's finest....


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## m1west

A restoration and modification can't get anymore complete than what you have done, good job.


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## Blackfoot Tucker

WBJ1 Has been prodding me to post an update...

Here’s a question for you: “When is a gallon not really a gallon”? The answer is when the item is being sold by a paint manufacturer.

Back in the day I remember buying DuPont Imron paint. It was a catalyzed paint and your so-called “gallon” of paint came in a gallon can, but with only three quarts of actual paint. As I recall you bought a quart of catalyst as well and that mixed together produced a gallon. Well PPG has taken that a step further. Their so-called “gallon" is actually .64 gallons (in a gallon can, of course). The catalyst comes in a quart can, which we all know is 1/4 of a gallon. However, the can only contains .2 gallons of catalyst, and this makes no sense as the mixing ratio is 4:1.  Mixing .64 gallons of paint at 4:1 would require .16 gallons of catalyst. Now we’re up to .8 gallons, but you’d have to add a whole lot of thinner (25% to be exact) to get a sprayable gallon. We thinned the catalyzed paint 10% per Eddy’s recommendation, and that seemed to work well. 

Before I go further, let me say this about the color choice: If you like the color: Give WBJ1 credit. If you don’t like the color: Give WBJ1 credit. Our overarching objective is to make Snowzilla WBJ1’s  version of the ultimate Tucker for his usage. (I suppose that isn’t quite true as he wants a turbo, and that simply ain’t happening with us.) While the color was not our choice, he is the customer after all...

When it came time to spray the color, we decided to spray the inside of the cab and the frame first. Having the two shop cranes made this task a lot easier. We could raise and lower the cab at will to position it at the optimal height for accessing various parts from the interior roof to the frame. That said, it was still challenging, and a team effort. Scott would bend down and crawl under the frame and then stand up in an area between frame members. Then he’d spray what he could, bend down, crawl to a new location and do what he could from there, and so on. But the lighting in the shop is really lousy and that’s where I came in. I’d hold a (WBJ1 will love this) LED light stick and shine that to help Scott. I’d also point out areas that needed more paint. That might come across as being critical, but neither of us took it that way. It was an extra set of eyes from a different vantage point, and the goal was to do a thorough job. It helped to achieve the goal.

Here is Scott just starting to spray the color.





The Tucker truss frame is composed of many individual pieces of steel, all welded together. Each piece has multiple sides and they all need to be painted, and the coverage needs to be 100%. That means multiple spray gun angles to cover each piece and the multiple angles means overlapping paint on adjoining frame pieces. This can very easily lead to runs in the paint as you strive for that 100% coverage. Honestly, I think Scott did an outstanding job. He’s not a professional, and yet there are only a very few number of boo-boos. I can unequivocally say I could not have done as well. 

These pics were taken the following day.









We had suspended the cab from a strap on the pintle hitch and Scott didn’t want to spray the strap with green paint. The pintle hitch was sprayed when we painted the exterior.





Periodically I'll go to Tucker's website to see what's going on. Tucker publishes a monthly newsletter and they almost always have information from the service department. It can be worth reading, though typically the information pertains to newer generation machines. Anyway, the December, 2018 issue surprised me. 

Check out page three in the link below and look at the front-engined Tucker pictured. (Another Pea Soup Green Tucker. (My name for it. Scott''s is less complimentary...))

http://sno-cat.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/volume-10issue-12.pdf


----------



## PJL

Looks military.  Nice work BFT.


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## Pontoon Princess

nice work guys, very nice, guess you got the memo from Jr. 

fyi, the color is called, BSG, Baby Sh_t Green, 

W Buffet Jr looses his tucker card per Her Royal Highness, Pontoon Queen

it is Orange, no other color


----------



## Snowy Rivers

LiZard puke green in some circles.. 

No matter...looks great.


----------



## Track Addict

Omaha orange or bust!  That's prob some new high tech olive drab primer.


----------



## Cidertom

I rather see that green than the hi visibility green-yellow.  This green is probably so it blends in with the usfs rigs.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

I am thinking about Snow Camo for the FrankenCat...


----------



## The Sweet Wbj1

We will take a re-vote once it's all done. We are doing body green and blade, roof rack, ladder, tool box, etc black. The ARMY GREEN color is already growing on Scott! I have a feeling when it's done it will have grown on TLBFT as well! Orange is for cats with stock engines!!


----------



## 1boringguy

Wbj1, 
I was going to say the same, let's see when it's done. I can go with plastic army man green.

Let's see, the appropriate quote here ?

"It's only weird the first time", 
No no, that's not it.
Uuhhmm, "Whatever you're into man" ?

The only bad choice would be letting others make it for you, at least imo ?


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

wbuffetjr1 said:


> The ARMY GREEN color is already growing on Scott! I have a feeling when it's done it will have grown on TLBFT as well!



Huh? WBJ1, you are misinformed.

Interesting comments from all...

Snowy Rivers,

During the phase when WBJ1 was seriously considering a camouflage paint scheme, I did some research - which was interesting. The US Army has put a lot of time and effort over the years to perfect their camouflage paint colors and patterns. To an untrained eye it often looks like they painted a vehicle a base color and then gave some soldiers a case of beer and a bunch of spray cans and said "Go for it". But there's actually a lot more to it than some random splotches. Each vehicle has a specific pattern of colors and unsurprisingly the US Army has manuals that specify the layouts with surprising precision. In the 1970's they introduced what is referred to as MERDC camouflage. Two colors comprise 45% each of the vehicle, and then two other colors split the remaining 10%. There were eight different combinations of colors for optimal concealment in different locations and climatic conditions.

My perception is two things ruined the camo paint idea on Snowzilla. One was previously mentioned: Mrs. WBJ1's love of the Toyota "Army Green". But I think the kill shot for WBJ1 was advice from our paint guru, Eddy. Camouflage paint, assuming it's done properly, uses flat paints with no gloss. Eddy said those paints do not hold up well over time compared to typical glossy paints.

In post 154 in this thread I mentioned WBJ1 and I had discussed camouflage paint schemes and my good friend, Chris had done some design work. (This guy is HUGELY talented, and in may many, ways.) Here's one he Photoshopped for us. It's the US Army MERDC concept and the color combination uses Winter Verdant colors: Forest Green, Field Drab, Sand and Black.





Snowzilla could have had this... but NO... and now it's Pea Soup Green.  "Snatching Defeat From the Jaws of Victory..."


----------



## PJL

I'm sure there are tech manuals that specify how to paint the camo design.  But I was in the Army quite some time ago and I can say the case of beer and spray cans was the more prevalent method.   Usually intended to disguise mystery dents and scrapes, which may or may not have involved the aforementioned case(s) of beer.


----------



## Cidertom

The one I love is a gent in Greece who has a beautiful  white snow camo job.... with hi vis reflective decal strips


----------



## PJL

Yeah that's Nikos, his Snowtrac is very nice.


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

PJL said:


> I'm sure there are tech manuals that specify how to paint the camo design.  But I was in the Army quite some time ago and I can say the case of beer and spray cans was the more prevalent method.   Usually intended to disguise mystery dents and scrapes, which may or may not have involved the aforementioned case(s) of beer.


PJL, 

As an Air Force guy, thanks for restoring my faith in the US Army. I was in "the peacetime Air Force", which got bogged down in rules, regulations and minutiae. Fortunately for me, early on I had both a squadron commander and operations officer who had the big picture. They were all about maximizing the squadron’s combat capability, and if a rule or two got bent slightly, that was okay. I learned the concept of “If you’re not cheating, you're not trying”. Fun times...

BTW, I totally agree about the snow camo paint on Nikos’ Snow Trac. Gorgeous!


----------



## The Sweet Wbj1

I'm taking bets on whether or not TLBFT ends up liking the paint scheme or not!!! Let me know if you want some action....


----------



## The Sweet Wbj1

I posted this over on the serenade thread, but I think it truly deserves to go on this thread. 
Someone anonymously sent this to me via PM. It's hilarious.

_[Poontoon Princess Darth Vader steps out of her shuttle on the Shop Floor Death Star.]_
*Blackfoot Tucker **Moff Jerjerrod*: Welcome, Poontoon Princess Lord Vader. This is an unexpected pleasure. We are honored by your presence.
*Poontoon Princess** Darth Vader*: You may dispense with the pleasantries, Commander. I am here to put you back on schedule.
*Blackfoot Tucker** Moff Jerjerrod*: I assure you, Poontoon Princess Lord Vader, my men are working as fast they can.
*Poontoon Princess** Darth Vader*: Perhaps _I_ can find new ways to motivate them.
*Blackfoot Tucker** Moff Jerjerrod*: I tell you that this snocat will be operational as planned.
*Poontoon Princess** Darth Vader*: _[stops and holds up her finger at Blackfoot Tucker Jerjerrod]_ The Wbuffetjr1 Emperor does not share your optimistic appraisal of the situation.
*Blackfoot Tucker** Moff Jerjerrod*: But he asks the impossible! I need more men!
*Poontoon Princess** Darth Vader*: Then perhaps you can tell him yourself when he arrives.
*Blackfoot Tucker** Moff Jerjerrod*: _[alarmed]_ Wbuffetjr1The Emperor's coming here? (Sun Valley)
*Poontoon Princess** Darth Vader*: That is correct, Commander, and he is most displeased with your apparent lack of progress.
*Blackfoot Tucker** Moff Jerjerrod*: We shall double our efforts.
*Poontoon Princess** Darth Vader*: I hope so, Commander, for your sake. The Wbuffetjr1 Emperor is not as forgiving as I am. _[resumes walking]_


----------



## Cidertom

The writer screwed up, instead of 'shuttle' it should have been 'Torpedo'.


----------



## Cidertom

wbuffetjr1 said:


> I'm taking bets on whether or not TLBFT ends up liking the paint scheme or not!!! Let me know if you want some action....


A beer say Mrs Wbuffetjr1 doesn't like it once completed. Wants FAA Orange. or Hot Pink


----------



## PJL

Hot Pink!!


----------



## The Sweet Wbj1

Cidertom said:


> A beer say Mrs Wbuffetjr1 doesn't like it once completed. Wants FAA Orange. or Hot Pink


That's easy money for me! She's basically the one that decided on ARMY Green! She's dying for one of the new Army Green Toyota 4Runners.


----------



## Snowy Rivers

The past months of thrashing things on my FrankenCat has been to GET STUFF MOUNTED...GET STUFF REPAIRED THAT NEEDS IT.
Just before the rain and cold got here I was fooling with the tire guides and in and out of the shop a lot and each trip out was looking at the cat.

An idea started to jell a bit...Make the beast look like a "RAT ROD" All the mechanical's top notch..but go grungy on the paint scheme....Flat black....maybe something that sort of resembles camo but not any real honest pattern to it.....

I am not a fan of the Orange....not a love hate thing, just want this rig to be off the beaten path all the way....

Nobody else around here gives a rip what I do...
Anyway...We are not going to Concours with it....Gitterdone....


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

Speaking only for myself, I don’t care for the “Rat Rod” look, or concept…at all

I was fortunate to go to the SEMA show in Las Vegas three times. The vast, vast majority of the vehicles displayed there were darn near perfect. Absolutely incredible! The attention to detail, throughout the whole vehicle, was awesome. Then there were the Rat Rods, and IMHO they were the opposite end of the spectrum. I’m sure they appeal to some, but not me. 

One of my very best friends, who sometimes makes parts for our Tucker projects, says one’s work product is a reflection of the person who did it. I think he’s right, and I’ll tell a story on myself:

Years ago I had dropped out of college and got a job as a machinist trainee. I had a knack for it and finished first in my class. I then became a manual turret lathe operator, primarily making very precise parts for optical comparators. Procedurally, we were required to have the first piece of a production order inspected and signed off prior to producing more pieces. One day I was given an order for some knurled handles. I set up the machine and took the first piece to be inspected. The inspector in my department was busy, so I took it to the final inspection department. Mr. Chase checked all the dimensions and said “Dimensionally it’s fine, but I’m going to reject it because the finish on the knurl isn’t sharp enough. I know your work, and I know you can do better”. Henry Chase was my sixth grade teacher’s husband. He was a nice man, and I liked him and I respected him. That was a humbling experience; one of those life's lessons moments for me. I don’t want to be known for doing lousy work. Period. 

Yesterday (real time) among other things we repainted the bolt-on six-way blade frame on Snowzilla. When Scott originally sprayed it, the paint coverage was thin in a couple spots. There were also some runs. Yes, you would have to crawl underneath the machine to see them, but since we needed to touch up the thin spots, I decided I’d sand out the runs and we would respray the entire frame. That extra effort will probably never be seen or appreciated. Doesn’t matter…I have to satisfy myself.

That doesn’t mean everything we do is perfect. But it does mean we try…hard.


----------



## Pontoon Princess

another take on camo paint on a tucker


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## Blackfoot Tucker

Pontoon Princess said:


> another take on camo paint on a tucker
> 
> View attachment 131758


I like that... much more than Baby Sheet Green...

What year is the 543, 1970-ish?


----------



## Pontoon Princess

1967, with Jeep Tornado power, 4 speed


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

A Thanksgiving day update...

Here are before and after pics of the rear of the Tucker truss frame, complete with rust and galvanic corrosion. 





Not difficult, or time consuming, or costly in materials to do it right. It only takes caring…just a little.





When it came time to spray the exterior, we masked off the door openings, window openings and any holes of significant size to prevent overspray on the inside. We hung plastic sheeting to prevent overspray on the truss frame.

Here it is all masked.





Scott starting to spray the roof.





And covered in...(ahem) green.





I’ve mentioned this previously, but one of my pet peeves is when so-called experts never make a mistake. The example I gave was Norm Abram on the PBS show The New Yankee Workshop. Well, Scott and I are far from being experts, and I’m sure readers have figured out we’re really just a couple of knuckleheads. And we still make mistakes, or at least I do. I think it's important to come clean and be honest about it. If nothing else, it provides a bit of credibility.

Here’s a pic of the firewall after painting, and with almost all the masking paper, tape and plastic removed.





With the possible exception of the choice of color (okay, probable exception) it looks pretty good, right?  Yeah, except there’s a problem. In my zeal to weld up all the extraneous holes in the firewall I had Scott weld the hole for the heater temperature control cable. Officially, it was to more optimally position the hole for the location of the temperature control valve on the L94 engine, but the truth of the matter is... I screwed up.


----------



## 1boringguy

Wow BFT, I wish I screwed up as bad as you do ?

A couple years ago a friend was talking about the cost of his kid's college education, around $40k a year. Hard to believe. When I went to college I could work all summer and make $1,500, get about that in a government grant, and that would pay room, meals, tuition, books, gas back and forth home, and weekend big game hunting and camping, for the year.

After I thought about it for a minute though, I told him, $40k for a year, thats cheap. Look at us now, one mistake on one job and we get a $40k 'education' ?

No doubt that the new hole will be more optimally place anyway.


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

1boringguy said:


> Wow BFT, I wish I screwed up as bad as you do ?


1BG Thanks for the laugh. Believe me, I screw up plenty. Fortunately on snowcat projects Scott frequently, but not always, catches the buffoonery before it happens.

I share your thoughts regarding college tuition costs and how expensive some mistakes can be. It was a bit over a year ago: my wife and I went to a pretty nice restaurant and the waitress was very sharp, and in her early-twenties. We chatted a bit and she had just graduated from Georgetown University with a degree in Political Science. My checkbook quivered at how much that education cost and likely the amount of her student loans. OUCH!


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

After all the fun Scott and I had at SV 2021, it was back to the realities of life, and time to turn our attention back to Snowzilla. I will add though our enthusiasm for the project has been rejuvenated by SV 2021. We are determined to have it done for SV 2022!

When I bought the machine it came with a large roof-top carrier. But for all the carrying capability of the carrier, there was no good way to access it to load it. We needed to mount the carrier temporarily and design and fabricate a ladder for each side that would allow someone to safely climb up and load various items into the carrier. While it seems relatively robust, the floor is expanded metal and there wasn’t much in the way of support. The Infamous WBJ1 said he wanted to be able to stand in the carrier, and that meant adding some floor reinforcement, in addition to the ladders.

We added two lengths of 1” square tube (.125 wall thickness) to both the front and back halves of the carrier. The machine also came with a rotating beacon and it was mounted on top of the carrier. While that made for better functionality, it was an easy target for low-hanging branches, and it wouldn’t take much of a branch to destroy it. We decided to mount the beacon lower and we fabricated a bracket to install the beacon to the front of the carrier. This will unfortunately block visibility of the beacon from the rear, but hopefully it will at least survive.









Then we used the shop’s crane to lift the carrier into position on Snowzilla's roof and spent some time thinking about ladder options. We took measurements of the fuel tank, so we’d know where the front part of the tank stopped, and did the same on the opposite side where we’ll install a large Weatherguard box WBJ1 purchased. The Weatherguard box is eight inches longer than the fuel tank and as we wanted the ladders to be identical, the right side became the limiting factor. We put pieces of masking tape in the approximate locations and made marks to show the exact position. You need clearance between the door in front, and either the gas tank or Weatherguard box, and the ladder's side rails for your hands so they don’t get pinched. Scott said the typical amount is 1 1/2”. That determined the maximum width of the ladders. 

We then looked more closely at the carrier mounted on the roof and it looked…awful. Huh? What is going on? 

So off it came, and Scott measured the distances between the various mounting holes on the carrier and the main carrier frame. The right side was about 6 3/4” and the left side was 6 1/4”. Nice! We discussed methods of rectifying this and Scott welded on sections of flat bar to the short side brackets, marked and drilled new holes, and then welded the original mounting holes closed. Some clean up with an angle grinder and it was time for a test fit. Much better! The gaps between the carrier are now pretty consistent from side to side. Looking closely at the roof skin one can see a slight gouge in the aluminum where the lopsided carrier had rubbed against the skin.

Pics.

You can see the masking tape marking the edges of the fuel tank and the carrier in position. Though the crane is attached, the weight of the carrier is supported by the Tucker.





The right side. You can see how far forward the Weatherguard box will protrude.





No longer lopsided...





Look under the bottom of the carrier's frame and you can see the mark in the skin.





Scott wanted to stand in the carrier to simulate WBJ1 doing the same thing.





No deflection despite Scott's weight (allegedly 220 lbs, though I suspect I should add an "-ish" for accuracy).


----------



## Cidertom

I'm a weenie when it comes to side hills.  I hope the carrier is used to hold pillows, popped pop-corn, lite beer etc. The carrier itself raises the cg.  But then again, I don't operate a tucker.   I just keep seeing the video I shot at McCall, where it really looked ike I was going to get to see the bottom of a Sno-Cat.


----------



## sno-drifter

What CT said. Regardless of your sediments for the company, trailers solve many problems, i.e. no ladder required and the accidental slip off the tracks while load/unloading. Also the option of un-hooking while climbing that "Hill too steep in Snow too deep". Seems like someone here has skis for trailers.


----------



## Pontoon Princess

how is the sweet one , going to bbq up on the roof?


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

Cidertom,

I agree with you regarding CG concerns on sidehills, and especially so with a heavily laden roof-top carrier. What you probably don’t know is Snowzilla is being purpose-built for WBJ1’s specific needs. He has a remote, off-the-grid cabin that is accessed by a dirt road of several miles. My understanding is the road is semi-improved and it’s not maintained at all in the winter. Cabin access would be via skis or snowshoes if on foot, or snowmobile or snowcat if available. There are not significant sidehills in the road, though snow can certainly drift to create them. Snowzilla is also being equipped with a six-way blade that would allow him to cut a path through, or across, such a drift minimizing the sidehill issue if such an obstacle comes about.

Back in 2019 WBJ1 borrowed our 1544 at Christmastime to bring his family, as well as his brother-in law’s, and all their gear, food, toys, winter clothing, etc to the cabin. He told me it took four trips to get everything up there. Increasing Snowzilla's carrying capability of “stuff” would reduce the number of trips the next time he is faced with such a task.

Sno-Drifter,

I certainly agree about the desirability of the trailer over a roof-top carrier. It holds more in terms of volume and weight. It’s very easily accessed for loading and unloading. It adds greatly to the utility of the machine when needed, yet can be disconnected and set aside when not. And they look Uber-cool, in addition to the safety factor. What’s not to like about all that?

Snowzilla thread-wise, posts are always made in arrears, meaning after we’ve completed a task. Sometimes I’ll hint about what’s coming up in a subsequent post, but not all that often. What I haven’t mentioned yet (stay tuned!) is that personal safety is our overarching objective with the design of the ladders to access the carrier. Ladders can be dangerous, and snow and ice only make them more so., A Tucker has a whole lot of sharp edges and a fall onto a fuel tank or track with grousers could easily result in a trip to the emergency room. Regardless of the emergency room, it will hurt.

While the Tucker factory built trailers back in the day, the vast majority have probably been scrapped, or their whereabouts are unknown. The new and improved DaviScott trailers are truly awesome, but our marching orders from WBJ1 are to keep costs as low as possible. For example, the ladders are being made from steel pipe Scott had on hand at the shop. Aluminum tube would have been preferable, but substantially more expensive. I can honestly tell you with just about everything we do - one eye is on cost. A trailer would be budget busting (In my head I’m picturing WBJ1 howling). 

I’ll try and get the next installment posted soon (it’s partially written)...


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

Pontoon Princess said:


> how is the sweet one , going to bbq up on the roof?


"The Sweet One? Really?


----------



## Pontoon Princess

LOL LOL LOL hahahahahahahaha,

I will give him a Trailer, and one top notch daviScott skiis, anything to stop the howling, a little peace and quiet would be most welcome, all for the sweet one. good olde boy from Georgia......now he can bbq without climbing up on the roof, risking his life and his eye, broken arm, leg, head, back, etc and or budget

will deliver it on the my next trip to GJ, very soon

yuppppppppppppppppp, he will need to buy the other ski, pay real money, otherwise.............


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

PP, 

That is an over the top thoughtful, kind and generous thing to do. Totally awesome on your part!


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

After we decided on the maximum width of the ladder, we discussed different ideas for the overall design. One thing I have learned from Scott is time spent on design, is time well spent. And when ideas start to gel, it can be beneficial to draw them out using Scott’s CAD system. Assuming you use good numbers, you can draw it accurately and then make tweaks in various ways to refine the concept. The CAD system also can also be used to get dimensions to be used in the fabrication process. Sometimes at the end of a night during which we’ve spent hours at the computer, I'll think “We got nothing done” and it’s a frustrating feeling. However, the time was indeed well spent and the result is a better design. You also eliminate the "Oh, cr*p" moments when you realize halfway through fabricating, your hurried design failed to take into consideration some issue - and now you have to start over. Yes, I’ve “been there and done that”... 

We used this methodology in designing the ladders for Snowzilla. We wanted ladders that were very sturdy and secure, and we wanted them to be totally functional. Safety was the primary concern and looks took a back seat. Climbing up a ladder can be easier than going down, and all of this was taken into consideration. We decided the ladder should run all the way up to the carrier (and be securely mounted to it). The top rung of the ladder is even with the floor of the carrier and we added a small platform of steel diamond plate on top of the top rung. 

OSHA has lots of regulations that apply to fixed ladders. However, those regulations are specifically written for fixed ladders that are an integral part of a building or structure. OSHA's website also says this: OSHA's fixed ladder requirements do not apply to vehicle-mounted fixed ladders.  Nonetheless, as a best practice we tried to incorporate many of the OSHA ladder requirements in our design as close as we could. For example, the distance between the ladder rungs and the cab’s exterior, the vertical distance between ladder rungs, and the width of the ladder rungs between the ladder rails. 

Then it was time to start cutting and welding. We used 1” steel pipe for the rails, and 3/4” steel pipe for the rungs. The rungs get “fish mouthed”, or coped, so they fit tightly to the rails and then get welded to them. We decided to space the ladder rungs about 6 1/2” away from the cab wall. In this way the balls of your feet are well inside the ladder rungs. It gives you more of a feeling of security and it’s safer than only having enough room for your toes to grab the ladder. To protect the cab wall from any ladder usage induced damage, we'll rivet some aluminum diamond plate to the cab’s skin.

Photos:

Laying on the work table awaiting installation. You can see the top platform in the foreground.





A side view after installation.





Another angle.





I climbed on the ladder, and yanked and pulled pretty hard. I can personally attest that this ladder design is really stout. At the bottom it bolts through the Tucker’s frame, and at the top through the carrier’s frame. You could hang multiple BFTs from it, and it would be fine. (Multiple BFTs…a scary thought!)

Going forward the plan is to remove the ladders and the roof top carrier and have them sand blasted and powder coated. We'll put non-skid adhesive strips on the ladder rungs during the installation process to provide traction on potentially slippery ladder rungs.


----------



## Pontoon Princess

renamed, BSGZilla...


----------



## DAVENET

Can't wait to see what this project is.


----------



## Pontoon Princess




----------



## Snowy Rivers

Walk right into the shine on that paint job.....

Really looks great....


----------



## Pontoon Princess




----------



## Track Addict

She’s sure shining this thread on…..

That first paint job could have warren buffeted out to a gloss finish but not the orange!


----------



## Pontoon Princess




----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

After a long hiatus, Scott and I are back at work on the machine formerly known as “Snowzilla”. I used that phraseology because I renamed the machine “Putri-Zilla” to reflect it’s hideous color. It has recently returned from a trip to an out-of-state snowcat spa in the Pacific Northwest owned and operated by Tucker royalty. It went there for some spa treatments and cosmetic rejuvenation. 

Readers will recall that The Infamous WBJ1 wanted the machine painted Toyota Army Green. However, he didn’t want to pay for automotive paint and the exact color was not available in the chosen industrial paint line that was much less expensive. As such, he selected a color from a Federal Stock Number color fan, and that’s the color it was painted. During its time at the spa the machine was re-painted with a high quality automotive paint…in Toyota Army Green. While the paint is higher quality and the finish is a whole lot better, the Toyota Army Green color is just as awful, and thus the name change. We’ve all heard the phrase “A face only a mother could love”. Well, Putri-Zilla is painted "a color only The Infamous WBJ1 could love”. Yes, it IS that bad.

The painter very cleverly painted one small panel the correct shade of Omaha Orange. This serves to remind The Infamous WBJ1, and anyone else who sees it, what could have been. If only…. 

But now back in our hands, we’ve started the reassembly process. We installed a new windshield along with a new rubber gasket. The engine and transmission have been reinstalled and we are in the process of installing sound deadening mat throughout the cab interior. We used up all we had on hand, and while waiting for more mat via Amazon’s Not-So-Prime delivery service (eight days from order to delivery), we started installing the partially finished wiring harness. It’s been over a year since we did anything wiring related on Putri-Zilla and both Scott and I have forgotten a lot of the "what went where". Despite consulting our notes and doing research, we are having to use a voltmeter to confirm circuits. It’s a S L O W process, and quite frustrating, too. For me the only saving grace is it seems Scott has forgotten just as much as I have. Finally, the ordered mat arrived and we finished installing the it throughout the cab. (The floors are not installed so we’ll have to do those later.)

Now that we’re working on a more regular basis I’ll try and update the thread more frequently. 

Pics:

The mat comes folded in thirds in an odd size. The uncut sections are not large enough to use a single piece and to do a door, for example. You have to use more than one piece. It will get covered with "upholstery" so you can use multiple pieces and it's not an issue. The Infamous WBJ1 is very cost conscious so we try and minimize waste to save him a few bucks. (We'll spend 'em elsewhere, anyway.) There's no requirement that the embossed diamonds all run in the same direction so I try and cut pieces to fill in as necessary.





You can see a vertical line of rivets that protrude through the mat behind the front door's rear door post. Those rivets secure the black aluminum scuff plates that will be directly behind the ladders used to access the roof top carrier.





Here's the back of Putri-Zilla. I haven't operated a machine with this stuff installed but the unofficial "rap test" is impressive. Lightly rap your knuckles on a bare panel, be it a door, side, etc and it's pretty loud. Now do it after the mat is installed and it's a quiet "thud".


----------



## PJL

I feel slightly nauseous after looking at the color.  I thought my monitor was failing.


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

PJL, 

I feel similarly every time I work on it....

I promised I’d update the thread on a more regular basis. I don’t really have anything exciting to add, or any cool photos. (Can there be cool photos of a color so awful?)

I did pick up the new side windows from a local glass supplier. Evidently glass, like so much else these days, has taken off in price. What was also somewhat surprising is how few “glass companies” have the capability to supply custom cut flat, tinted, laminated glass. Just like with the windshield, we installed the glass. Really it would be more accurate to say “Scott installed the glass" as he did the vast, vast majority of the work. Trying to work the glass into the rubber gasket is challenging, and then getting the lock strip in place is even more so. Count on some sore thumbs if you try this. 

All the fixed glass is now in place.





With that done it was back to wiring. UGH. I previously mentioned it was "slow”. Maybe the word “glacial” would be more accurate. A considerable amount of planning, then stringing wire and connecting some things, then more planning. Of course there is the occasional back-tracking as well. 

We mounted the four round 7” LED lights on the grille. Each light is 80 watts and we installed a three position switch on the instrument panel to control the lights rather than a floor-mounted dimmer that Tucker utilized. The switch is on-off-on with one “on" position being dim and the other bright. The switches actually control relays which supply the power for the lights. “Dim” will illuminate the two lower lights and “bright” lights up all four. While the amount of light these lights will produce would be more than sufficient for a vehicle competing in the Paris to Dakar Rally, our “customer” opted for a roof mounted LED light bar as well. That’s another 240 watts of light….





We’re starting in the front and working to the panel in the cab with all the circuit breakers and relays. In addition to the front lights there are two electric fans to cool the radiator, a fan for the auxiliary hydraulic cooler and a horn. The radiator fans are controlled by the engine's ecm and operate through relays. We need to get the ecm re-flashed and the individual fans programmed to turn on and off at different temperatures. Right now we're thinking we'll have the first turn on at 184º and off at 180º and the second fan will turn on at 207º and off at 200º.  

I hope to make some serious progress next week...


----------



## olympicorange

as always,..   '' very nicely done'' ,..    i like the green ,..   omaha is the standard,..  but a new temperature is always welcome,...   i dying to do a ,...''real teal''  58 chevy sedan ,...   snow makes colors ''pop''


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

Plugging away on Putri-Zilla….

We installed the front roof-top LED light bar. This is the same type bar we mounted on the '86 1544 project, and on the DMC 1450, aka “TUG”. It’s a 42” bar, and it’s curved. You really can’t go wider on this vintage Tucker (52” wide cab) due to the curvature of the roof unless you want to fabricate some special brackets. 





With the Thundercat project we added three thermostatically-controlled remote fluid coolers; one for the transmission, one for engine oil and one for hydraulic fluid. You can think of these as small radiators with electric fans. On Thundercat we mounted two under the rear cab floor on the lower truss frame, and the third underneath the bed. But Putri-Zilla doesn’t have any of that real estate available and places to locate a cooler are really limited. To give you an idea of what I’m trying to describe, we even considered mounting a remote cooler on the roof-top carrier or inside a really nice and large Weatherguard box that will be mounted opposite the fuel tank. There really aren’t a lot of options, and we wanted to consider all of them. 

But we scratched our heads a fair bit, and there was enough room for one in front of the engine, so Scott welded a bracket to the Tucker frame to support the rear of the cooler. But you also have to plumb the cooler with lines to carry the fluid. With Thundercat we custom made bent steel tubes which makes for a really clean and professional look, but it’s also obscenely time consuming. 

As such, Putri-Zilla gets rubber hoses, which to be fair is what about 99.9% of people use. Unfortunately, we needed an immediate 90º turn for at least one of the two lines. There was very limited space to work with and the locally available fittings would not work. I did some Internet research and found some fittings that would work, but Holy Moly are they proud of them!  Scott and I discussed more cost-effective options and decided to mount the cooler differently so we could use cheaper fittings. I don’t think it looks as good, but the savings were substantial and we’re under orders to minimize costs. (It must be fun to be a defense contractor, make a bid, then run up the costs and pass ’em on to the .gov.)


Mounted with the inlet and outlet fittings to the front. Return fluid from the orbitrol will come to the cooler and output fluid will return to the hydraulic tank. You can see the in-line thermostatic switch installed at the top of the cooler in the photo. It turns the fan on at 180º.





Here’s a view from the front. Scott carefully re-bent the front mounting flange to match the angle of the Tucker front frame cross member. Note the fasteners. They are what Scott refers to as “Zip Screws”. He has a fetish for these things and his are made for metal buildings and have a rubber washer for sealing.. They are made of hardened steel and are self-drilling, so it’s sort-of like using a new drill bit for every hole. I really don’t like the idea of self-drilling screws being installed where the drill point is exposed after installation, but these are installed into square tube so it’s impossible to contact the point with your hand and cut yourself. The horizontal fittings you see at the bottom of the photo are for the front blade’s hydraulic hoses.





Here’s the underfloor setup on Thundercat. 





Note: If you like the bent steel tubes, Scott gets the credit. He is an absolute genius at this, and that’s not an exaggeration. Don’t, however think we got them 100% right the first time. We would get them close, and then a fair amount of “adjusting” which we referred to as the "tweak, torque and spiral” process. The first bend in a tube is easy, but subsequent bends have to start in the right place, they have to have the right amount of bend, and the bend has to be in the correct plane, or radially, around the tube. You are almost always working with a length of tube that is too big to hold it in position to mark, so you use something as a proxy for the tube, such as a piece of welding rod. You bend that, check the fit, make adjustments, and when you’re satisfied, you use that as a model to bend the tube. But that’s when the tweak, torque and spiral comes in to get the tube to fit just right.

I realize this thread is about Putri-Zilla, but I’d like to show you some more of the tube bending detail on Thundercat. (Also the color is more visually appealing than the green.) This is the plumbing to the six-way valve for the front blade. The blue tape identifies lines that still need to be tightened. The unpainted line at the rear was subsequently painted. (That's the supply line to the hydraulic fluid cooler.)





Another view. The wires coming through the center floor area are for the front seat heaters.The rear seats are also heated. (Putri-Zilla will not have heated seats.) If you think the seat heater concept is a little over the top, Mrs. Blackfoot has significant scoliosis and heated seats are much more comfortable for her. (The unfilled holes on the rear flange of the center floor section are where the front seat brackets attach.) 






Here’s how the lines come through the floor. Note the rubber grommets that seal and isolate the individual tubes. (The rear line has now been painted.)





It’s really a shame to hide that craftsmanship, but we enclosed the valve assembly in an aluminum housing we made. If you look carefully at the inside of the enclosure you can see we lined it with sound deadening mat as well. At the top front of the enclosure is a trapezoid shaped bracket we added for the transmission shifter. The enclosure ties into that and there is a synergistic support effect. It is really solid.


----------



## m1west

What are you going to do about the transfer case, drive lines axels and differentials that were designed for about half the power you are going to throw at it. I sold a 442 last year and the first thing the new owner did, was freeze the tracks down and twist one of the front axles off, with a flat six.


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

m1west said:


> What are you going to do about the transfer case, drive lines axels and differentials that were designed for about half the power you are going to throw at it. I sold a 442 last year and the first thing the new owner did, was freeze the tracks down and twist one of the front axles off, with a flat six.



That’s a good question. However, the new owner of your 442 committed one of the cardinal sins of snowcat operation, and learned a lesson the hard (expensive) way. Letting the tracks freeze to the ground is a major no-no, as is turning the steering wheel when the tracks aren’t turning. 

The engine in Putri-Zilla is a GM L94 6.2 Liter LS series engine, very similar to the LS3 used in the Corvette. Its displacement is 376 cubic inches and its rated torque output is 417 pound feet at 4,300 RPM. Putri-Zilla came with a Chrysler 318 Industrial engine. I don’t have the specs for the 318, but it’s slightly bigger brother, the 360 Industrial, was rated at about 270 pound feet at 2,400 RPM. So the L94 puts out about 55% more torque. However, when it's done Putri-Zilla will be used for cabin access in Southwestern Colorado; at an elevation of 8,000-10,000 feet. (Note: I’ve been there and it is spectacular country!) As a normally aspirated engine, it will lose between 24-30% of its power at those elevations. A 24% haircut off 417 brings you down to 317 foot lbs, which unfortunately is only about 50 pound feet more than a 360 Industrial at sea level. At 10,000 feet the 30% power loss brings the L94 down to 292 pound feet; just over 10% more than the 360 Industrial at sea level. 

Prior to starting on Putri-Zilla we built and tested our Thundercat project, which has the GM L18 engine, aka: the 8.1Liter Vortec. 8.1 Liters equates to 496 cubic inches and that’s a big motor! GM designed this engine as a "torque-a saurus”; a much cheaper alternative to the costly Duramax. It produces 455 pound feet of torque at 3,200 RPM. That’s actually a tad more more than the somewhat legendary 5.9 Liter Cummins 6BT Diesel. But, the Cummins is turbocharged and the 8.1 is normally aspirated.

I think people are under the mistaken impression we are trying to increase the top speed on our Tucker projects, but that’s not the case. Foot to the floor on Thundercat, on a flat groomed trail I think we hit 18 MPH. It is not a comfortable 18 MPH, either. Tracks are throwing snow everywhere. As a 1600 series machine, each long track assembly has 31 steel grousers which weigh about 9 pounds each. With four tracks that’s just over 1,100 pounds of rotating mass, and that number doesn’t include the rubber belts. At that speed the huge rotating mass makes things a bit uncomfortable. Yeah, you can do it, but if a grouser (for example) comes loose, it could do a lot of damage. The extra power in the GM engines really allows you to operate in a higher gear at less than full speed. They also start more easily and are more efficient than the stock carbureted Chrysler Industrial engines.

I’m sure you’ve heard the term “non-destructive testing”. Scott doesn’t really believe in that. His theory is if it’s going to break - he wants to know about it, so we can address any deficiencies now rather than later. When we tested Thundercat, we wailed on it pretty hard. It is true Thundercat left the factory with the optional heavy duty transfer case and Putri-Zilla has the standard transfer case, but we think it's more than adequate. Thundercat got a 12” frame stretch, which moved the rear axle back 12”, and we moved the front axle forward 2”. That meant two new driveshafts and it has new Spicer U-joints. Putri-Zilla’s driveshafts were in fine shape, but it too got new Spicer U-joints. Both machines are equipped with Dana 60 axles with 4.88:1 ring and pinion gears and we installed Eaton E-Locker selectable locking differentials in the front and rear axles on both machines.They are also equipped with Allison AT545 four-speed, non overdrive automatic transmissions. Operating on snow as opposed to asphalt has quite a bit of “give" that asphalt doesn’t, and the torque converter in an automatic transmission will slip a bit as opposed to gears which are a positive mechanical connection. But at the end of the day if something breaks, we’ll try and figure out why and upgrade the problem component. Part of the fun for us is improving a product based on our research and putting that research into action in the form of the conversion. In my experience, no matter how carefully you research the topic, you WILL be confronted with unexpected challenges. 

It’s too bad these power train conversions are so expensive and so much work because we think the modifications are very worthwhile. Both project Tuckers were built about 40 years ago and in that period the automotive world has benefited greatly from numerous innovations. We think swapping a newer generation engine into a vintage Tucker brings with it a level of refinement that is very welcome.


----------



## m1west

I wouldn't put a diff lock on it for sure


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Yessssss....Engineering is great....Design is great.....Take it out and let bubba flog it....BETTER..


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

m1west said:


> I wouldn't put a diff lock on it for sure



I’m not sure why….

I recall a conversation with the late Bill Guthrie who told me of a blade-equipped Tucker that was used at a sugar beet processing facility somewhere in Idaho. They used it to climb piles of sugar beets and to move them around. Bill said that with the locking differentials it was more or less unstoppable. In conversations with Jeff Godard at Tucker, Inc we discussed selectable lockers. He said Tucker has used both the ARB air lockers and the Eaton E-lockers. They preferred the E-lockers to the ARB units as they experienced some air line freezing issues at really cold temperatures with the ARB air lockers. Eaton didn’t offer an E-locker for Dana 70 axles at that time (maybe they do now- I honestly don’t know) so they used ARB air lockers on Tuckers with Dana 70 axles.

The original E-locker design for the Dana 60 axle was a two pinion design whereas the ARB unit for the Dana 60 was a four pinion design: advantage ARB. However, Eaton redesigned the E-locker and introduced a four pinion E-locker for the Dana 60 (along with a price increase…naturally). So strength-wise I think they’re about equal. 

I also remember seeing a photo of a big Tucker groomer that was stuck just off a groomed trail. As I recall the story behind the photo, the operator was going about his business grooming the trail when a snowmobile traveling at a high rate of speed was blasting along the trail in the opposite direction. The snowcat operator intentionally drove off the trail to avoid a collision. But he was now stuck, and with a drag he couldn't back up. With open differentials, just like in a car/truck/whatever you can have one track spinning in front and one in back and go nowhere. With a locking differential both tracks will spin, and that may be enough added traction to get you out.

The selectable lockers give you the option of locking or not at your discretion; the best of both worlds. From my perspective, the only downside is the cost of the locker (and installation).


----------



## m1west

Blackfoot Tucker said:


> I’m not sure why….
> 
> I recall a conversation with the late Bill Guthrie who told me of a blade-equipped Tucker that was used at a sugar beet processing facility somewhere in Idaho. They used it to climb piles of sugar beets and to move them around. Bill said that with the locking differentials it was more or less unstoppable. In conversations with Jeff Godard at Tucker, Inc we discussed selectable lockers. He said Tucker has used both the ARB air lockers and the Eaton E-lockers. They preferred the E-lockers to the ARB units as they experienced some air line freezing issues at really cold temperatures with the ARB air lockers. Eaton didn’t offer an E-locker for Dana 70 axles at that time (maybe they do now- I honestly don’t know) so they used ARB air lockers on Tuckers with Dana 70 axles.
> 
> The original E-locker design for the Dana 60 axle was a two pinion design whereas the ARB unit for the Dana 60 was a four pinion design: advantage ARB. However, Eaton redesigned the E-locker and introduced a four pinion E-locker for the Dana 60 (along with a price increase…naturally). So strength-wise I think they’re about equal.
> 
> I also remember seeing a photo of a big Tucker groomer that was stuck just off a groomed trail. As I recall the story behind the photo, the operator was going about his business grooming the trail when a snowmobile traveling at a high rate of speed was blasting along the trail in the opposite direction. The snowcat operator intentionally drove off the trail to avoid a collision. But he was now stuck, and with a drag he couldn't back up. With open differentials, just like in a car/truck/whatever you can have one track spinning in front and one in back and go nowhere. With a locking differential both tracks will spin, and that may be enough added traction to get you out.
> 
> The selectable lockers give you the option of locking or not at your discretion; the best of both worlds. From my perspective, the only downside is the cost of the locker (and installation).


All that is true but with the power you are throwing at it, its just another reason to break an axle. I tend to modify things too, and learned from breaking thinks that all of the components have to match in strength. Letting the tracks slip may let it live, like an open diff. on the street you will just spin one tire, add positive traction with tires and that stock diff. will explode. Its almost a guarantee that if you were able to load it real hard and the tracks didn't slip, something will break. If you are seriously disciplined and only used the lockers to get un stuck it might live, but when stuck is when you are likely to load it real hard getting un stuck. You might be better off carrying extra rigging and an anchor to use a winch. The work you are doing on it looks very good.


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

We’ve been making some progress on Putri-Zilla’s wiring....

The relay and circuit breaker panel is in position and we’ve been pulling wires to that location. But the instrument panel with the gauges and switches is also a big part of the equation. The horn, front LED light bar and the headlights in both the dim and bright modes all have relays, which means extra wires. But pulling wire, determining the correct length and then adding crimped on terminals is a surprisingly slow process. 

Here's that panel mounted on the inside of the firewall on the left side. The firewall was first covered with sound deadening material and then covered with black neoprene foam. The foam might add some slight insulative and sound deadening capability but really we used it to cover the bright aluminum surface of the sound deadening material.





All of the wires connect to the gauges and switches on the back side of the instrument panel. If you install the panel first you then lay on your back, reach over your head, try and see what you're doing as you work. It’s not comfortable and it’s not fun. There’s got to be a better way so Scott bent some metal brackets that slide over the bottom of the steel dash panel opening, covered the brackets with a towel and laid the instrument panel upside down on the towel. Then he put a piece of melamine across some frame crossmembers and placed a short stool on the melamine. Once his “nest” was built, he climbed in and got to "work”.

I put work in quotes because someone was on the outside as the go-fer, grunt, or whatever term you want to use for the guy on the outside. That was me. We have a document that lists every circuit, and the color code and gauge for the wire used in that circuit. I’d look up what color wire went to a particular circuit, find it and hand it to him. Then he’d want a particular type of terminal, or wire cutters or crimpers or the heat gun. He had different sheets of paper that showed how the different switch configurations had to be wired, as well as an upside down diagram of the switch layout. Of course he’d “periodically" (more correctly frequently) drop stuff and guess who had to crawl under the machine to fetch the dropped items? Naturally there was a near constant litany of complaint that I wasn’t fast enough in getting him items to match his whim. I would tell him “No jury would convict me” as-in his impending homicide would be justifiable.

Here’s the instrument panel upside down and laid on the towel covered brackets.





You can see the melamine board and stool positioned Scott well to work on the wiring. MUCH better than laying on your back and working overhead.





A photo of the never satisfied slave driver.





But we did make some progress…thankfully. This week is crucial. If we are able to complete the wiring I think there’s a reasonably good chance Putri-Zilla will make it to SV 2022, and its big brother Thundercat will as well...


----------



## DAVENET

Exactly why my dash is still out.  Much easier to feed & run wires without that in the way, and then have a little extra to do exactly as you did with the instrument plate.


----------



## The Sweet Wbj1

I am not convinced SCOTT is the slave driver. I am thinking maybe the other way around......


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

The Sweet Wbj1 said:


> I am not convinced SCOTT is the slave driver. I am thinking maybe the other way around......


Puh Leez....

Did Scott put you up to suggesting that?


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

We continue to chip away at the wiring. We had some bad news regarding a mutual friend’s health and lost a night of work. And Scott had another commitment one night, so while I was hoping for a big week of progress, we fell short…again.

I shared with Scott my previous update and he protested that he was not a slave driver, but was (get this) “pure, white, and innocent”. Uh huh, and I have a bridge for sale in New York City. “Sweet” WBJ1, “pure, white, and innocent” Scott…I see a trend of wishful thinking.

We thought we were done with the gauge and switch panel but discovered some issues which we’ll resolve next time. And of course we need to get some more parts to complete certain aspects, but that’s par for the course with us. That won’t hold us up…we have plenty to do.

We had planned on installing the heater but discovered orange overspray courtesy of Tucker’s laziness in masking during initial production. (Why would you assemble a vehicle and then paint it? You can do a much better and more thorough job painting first and then assembling.) We thought that orange overspray would look awful, so it will get repainted. The defroster duct hoses also had lots of overspray on them, but they also had some tears in the material, so they get replaced. 

Wiring isn’t very exciting and photos are pretty much ho-hum. But everyone likes pics so…

These are the brackets I mentioned in my last update for supporting the gauge and switch panel (or "instrument panel”, if you prefer) upside down. They grab the lower part of the dash panel where it’s cut out for the gauge and switch panel. These simple brackets make working on the wiring so much easier. (The orange cap on the right is on the fuel pressure regulator/filter combination frequently used in LS engine swaps.)





Speaking of the gauge and switch panel, here’s a photo taken awhile ago with some missing items. Scott and I (really Scott) designed the layout using his CAD system. We used the same dimensions and mounting hole locations (the eight holes around the perimeter) that we used on Thundercat and they fit perfectly when we installed it. But for Putri-Zilla we needed to change the design to accommodate the differences in the gauges, switches, etc. We emailed the the new CAD file to StreamWorks, a local water jet company, and they cut it to our specs. These guys do very nice work at reasonable prices, and it’s impressive how closely they can maintain tolerances. (You can probably tell where this is going…) 

So... the other night Scott decides to position the gauge and switch panel in position to see what the almost-finished product looks like and... some of the top holes don’t line up with the mounting holes in the dash panel. They’re off enough that you can’t cheat just a little and install it. (Famous fighter-pilot quote: “If you’re not cheating, you’re not trying.”) 

I think I’ve mentioned this before, but I’ll repeat it, because it’s so annoying. Eli Whitney is most famous for inventing the cotton gin, but perhaps his biggest contribution was the concept of mass production. In 1789 he received a contract from the US Government to supply 10,000 muskets. Whitney came up with a manufacturing process that used standardized parts which were interchangeable. Only 191 years later (when Putri-Zilla was made) Tucker, Inc still hadn’t figured that out that seemingly basic concept.

To cover up the latest example of Tucker’s buffoonery we’ll have to get creative. We could, I suppose, slot the holes in the new aluminum panel, but that's lame. I'd rather a better solution than a band-aid. Tucker may not care...but we do.





Here we have the headlights on in the dim position.





And in bright.





If you’re thinking “That amount of light seems pretty excessive for a vehicle with a top speed of 15 MPH”, we agree with you. Completely. I guess The Infamous WBJ1 wants to see where he’ll be in a few minutes. I wonder if the earth’s curvature will prevent that?


----------



## Snowy Rivers

You guys are doing a fantastic job on this machine.

The detail work is awesome.


----------



## 1boringguy

Blackfoot Tucker said:


> We continue to chip away at the wiring. We had some bad news regarding a mutual friend’s health and lost a night of work. And Scott had another commitment one night, so while I was hoping for a big week of progress, we fell short…again.
> 
> I shared with Scott my previous update and he protested that he was not a slave driver, but was (get this) “pure, white, and innocent”. Uh huh, and I have a bridge for sale in New York City. “Sweet” WBJ1, “pure, white, and innocent” Scott…I see a trend of wishful thinking.
> 
> We thought we were done with the gauge and switch panel but discovered some issues which we’ll resolve next time. And of course we need to get some more parts to complete certain aspects, but that’s par for the course with us. That won’t hold us up…we have plenty to do.
> 
> We had planned on installing the heater but discovered orange overspray courtesy of Tucker’s laziness in masking during initial production. (Why would you assemble a vehicle and then paint it? You can do a much better and more thorough job painting first and then assembling.) We thought that orange overspray would look awful, so it will get repainted. The defroster duct hoses also had lots of overspray on them, but they also had some tears in the material, so they get replaced.
> 
> Wiring isn’t very exciting and photos are pretty much ho-hum. But everyone likes pics so…
> 
> These are the brackets I mentioned in my last update for supporting the gauge and switch panel (or "instrument panel”, if you prefer) upside down. They grab the lower part of the dash panel where it’s cut out for the gauge and switch panel. These simple brackets make working on the wiring so much easier. (The orange cap on the right is on the fuel pressure regulator/filter combination frequently used in LS engine swaps.)
> 
> View attachment 140975
> 
> Speaking of the gauge and switch panel, here’s a photo taken awhile ago with some missing items. Scott and I (really Scott) designed the layout using his CAD system. We used the same dimensions and mounting hole locations (the eight holes around the perimeter) that we used on Thundercat and they fit perfectly when we installed it. But for Putri-Zilla we needed to change the design to accommodate the differences in the gauges, switches, etc. We emailed the the new CAD file to StreamWorks, a local water jet company, and they cut it to our specs. These guys do very nice work at reasonable prices, and it’s impressive how closely they can maintain tolerances. (You can probably tell where this is going…)
> 
> So... the other night Scott decides to position the gauge and switch panel in position to see what the almost-finished product looks like and... some of the top holes don’t line up with the mounting holes in the dash panel. They’re off enough that you can’t cheat just a little and install it. (Famous fighter-pilot quote: “If you’re not cheating, you’re not trying.”)
> 
> I think I’ve mentioned this before, but I’ll repeat it, because it’s so annoying. Eli Whitney is most famous for inventing the cotton gin, but perhaps his biggest contribution was the concept of mass production. In 1789 he received a contract from the US Government to supply 10,000 muskets. Whitney came up with a manufacturing process that used standardized parts which were interchangeable. Only 191 years later (when Putri-Zilla was made) Tucker, Inc still hadn’t figured that out that seemingly basic concept.
> 
> To cover up the latest example of Tucker’s buffoonery we’ll have to get creative. We could, I suppose, slot the holes in the new aluminum panel, but that's lame. I'd rather a better solution than a band-aid. Tucker may not care...but we do.
> 
> View attachment 140976
> 
> Here we have the headlights on in the dim position.
> 
> View attachment 140977
> 
> And in bright.
> 
> View attachment 140978
> 
> If you’re thinking “That amount of light seems pretty excessive for a vehicle with a top speed of 15 MPH”, we agree with you. Completely. I guess The Infamous WBJ1 wants to see where he’ll be in a few minutes. I wonder if the earth’s curvature will prevent that?


... too much money, a girl too pretty, a car too fast, ....... a snocat with too many photons, ....... what's that mean? Ain't no such thing


----------



## The Sweet Wbj1

1boringguy said:


> ... too much money, a girl too pretty, a car too fast, ....... a snocat with too many photons, ....... what's that mean? Ain't no such thing


I like the way you think!!!


----------



## Pontoon Princess

the lights are so blinding, wow, but with these lights will prevent anyone from seeing the awful baby shit green color, on, what should be a Orange Tucker snow cat

not a fan of lighting up the night sky so the space station can see you,

but

I this case, the LED lights are a great idea, more lights please, can't see the BSG paint, blinded by the lights !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

are you guys going to run an separate Honda generator for the lights ?

please leave the lights ON....


----------



## western auto

probably a dumb question........  whats the deal with that black piece of diamond plate on the side, i like the green but thats killing the look


----------



## Pontoon Princess

western auto said:


> probably a dumb question........  whats the deal with that black piece of diamond plate on the side, i like the green but thats killing the loo



I know 
I know 
I know

they are scuff plates, there are ladders that go on the side of the body, where the scuff plates are....


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

Pontoon Princess said:


> I know
> I know
> I know
> 
> they are scuff plates, there are ladders that go on the side of the body, where the scuff plates are....


Exactly what PP said...

Here's a pic prior to removing the roof-top carrier and ladders for media blasting and powdercoating, and before the color change from BSG to Toyota "Army Green" (which looks like another shade of BSG to me).

And, oh look, yet another LED light bar mounted on the roof-top carrier!

While there is quite a bit of distance between the cab side and the ladder we thought it prudent to add the scuff plates to protect the cab sheet metal.


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

Snowy Rivers,

Thanks for the kind words. Very much appreciated, and especially so from someone so knowledgeable, talented and skilled.

1BG and PP, 

While I agree with 1BG's first three examples, I question the last. We’ve all driven at night when oncoming traffic has super-bright lights that are almost blinding, and we’ve also had people behind us with similar lights. Very definitely tips the meter into the obnoxious part of the scale. Putri-Zilla is equipped with lights that have all of that capability... and more.

Now picture The Infamous WBJ1 behind the wheel. Yeah, he tries to come off as “sweet” or “kind" or “benevolent", but that’s all a ruse to hide his true persona. Picture a mad scientists with his finger on the button, and salivating at the possibilities. That’s what I’m envisioning….

The L94 really is a heck of an engine. It was used in GM luxury SUVs (Cadillac Escalade and GMC Yukon Denali) from 2014 - 2016 and GM didn’t cheap-out on the alternator. It’s rated at 160 amps, and should be plenty capable of powering all of the lighting we’re installing on Putri-Zilla. That said, we were asked to design the new gauge and switch panel to have empty holes for additional switches. As such, there are four snap-in cover plates that would allow for electrical system "growth". I suspect if the project upgrade and modification list wasn’t frozen we’d be asked to install some flashing, multi-colored under cat lighting and perhaps a sound system that would echo through the mountain tops. Think of the mad scientist I suggested, and the possibilities are almost endless. But that stuff will have to come from somewhere else.


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

Still not done with the wiring. But first… Putri-Zilla has picked up another name: The Green Weenie….

We sorted out the issues with the gauge and switch panel in short order and then focused our attention on other tasks. As I mentioned in a recent post, the roof-top carrier and ladders had been sent out for blasting and powder coating. It was time to install the rotating beacon (which uses what The Infamous WBJ1 calls “old school” bulbs (aka: incandescents)) the two side LED light bars, and the rear  LED light bar. These are all bolted to the carrier and all the wires run underneath the carrier's frame. The wires run in split loom and the split loom is secured to the carrier with stainless steel cushion clamps and some of Scott’s beloved “zip screws”. I was concerned about the exposed sharp edges but he showed me if you whack the part of the screw that protrudes through the frame with a hammer, it will break off just about flush.  

Here’s a pic of the underside of the roof-top carrier.





After completing the wiring we tested all the lights with a power supply and once light function was confirmed, we installed the carrier on Putri-Zilla. Besides power, all the lights needed to be properly grounded. We grounded the lights to the carrier and we installed external tooth washers between the carrier’s mounting brackets and Putri-Zilla’s roof skin. We also have a ground wire from the carrier to Putri-Zilla’s cab frame. We used a Weather Pack four-way plug between the carrier and the machine so if necessary, the plug can be disconnected, the carrier unbolted from Putri-Zilla and the carrier removed. 

Incidentally, all split loom is not created equal. Basically the cheaper split loom, usually referred to as “poly” has a lower temperature rating. The better stuff has a higher temperature rating, is typically referred to as “nylon”, and has a light colored stripe running along the loom. (Split loom is also made in flame retardant and UV resistant varieties.) Yes, the better stuff is more expensive but if the poly loom is exposed to temperatures above its rating, it makes a mess that’s not fun to clean up. Yessum, that’s the voice of experience.

The ladders were bolted in place, and that part of the project is Finito! Stepping back and looking at the installed carrier both Scott and I think it looks good. Maybe part of the reason is when looking at it your eye’s attention is diverted from the green color? 

Here’s a pic of the roof-top carrier and right side ladder installed. (Note the gloss on the green paint and how pure the reflection is!)





A pic of the left LED side light bar illuminated. Yes, it is bright!





The front LED light bar.





A shot of the left side ladder and how the wires come through the cab skin and connect to the carrier’s wiring via a Weather Pack plug. It's hard to see, but a rubber grommet seals and protects the split loom and wires where they penetrate the cab skin. It would have been a cleaner look had we run the wires through the roof skin, but minimizing roof penetrations is a good thing, and the roof’s drip edge offers some protection for the grommet.





A view of the inside The blue wires with white spiral tracers are for the dome lights. 





At this point we have installed eight LED lights, but of course we aren’t done. In addition to the rear facing LED light bar on the roof top carrier (that’s probbaly 15-20 times brighter than the stock light Tucker installed) The Infamous WBJ1 wanted backup lights as well. True to form rather than select lights that were sufficient, he went for overkill. Both TUG (the DMC 1450) and the 1544 have a pair of LED backup lights. We used the same lights on both machines and each light is 18 watts. We think they’re great, and plenty bright…

But 18 watt lights on Putri-Zilla is too plebeian for good ol' WBJ1. Instead it will have two 54 watt LED light bars, the same lights that are mounted on the sides of the roof-top carrier. The backup lights are wired to turn on automatically when the transmission is shifted into reverse, and we also installed a manual switch for the lights on the gauge and switch panel. Unfortunately, that won’t complete the wiring, as Putri-Zilla also gets a backup camera.


----------



## Pontoon Princess

so what is the story of the Orange paint above rear the door, by chance is it Tucker "Orange"

I am impressed with the work, you and Scott have and will continue to do, to thee "Green Weenie"

very well done......

pretty dang sure, this is all way too good for the chicken king


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

Pontoon Princess said:


> so what is the story of the Orange paint above rear the door, by chance is it Tucker "Orange"


The orange paint was added at the painter’s discretion and serves multiple purposes:

- It shows allegiance to Tucker’s “Omaha Orange” heritage.

- It allows people looking at the machine to see, as opposed to try and visualize, exactly what the correct original color was (and should be).

- It then aids people in imagining what Putri-Zilla would look like “if only” it had been painted Omaha Orange in its entirety. 

For most of this project Scott and I have been respectful of WBJ1’s wants with regard to modifications, repairs, upgrades, etc. In some cases we put our foot down and say “No”. For example, the left front seat is torn and the rear upholstery is aged and has some small tears. Despite all the work to the snowcat, and all the new and cool stuff, WBJ1 wants the seats as they are. YGTBSM! They will be reupholstered. 

For me, the orange panel is a poke in the ribs reminding me I was a bonehead in agreeing to the color change to BSG….


----------



## Cidertom

BFT's next rebuild contract for a Tucker will have a clause: You can have it any color you want, so long as you want Omaha Orange.


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

Cidertom said:


> BFT's next rebuild contract for a Tucker will have a clause: You can have it any color you want, so long as you want Omaha Orange.


CT,

You'd absolutely be right IF there was going to be another Tucker project. But other than possibly some fairly simple stuff to do on the 1544, Putri-Zilla will be our last project Tucker of significance.


----------



## sno-drifter

Blackfoot Tucker said:


> will be our last project Tucker of significance.


Ya, right. And they all lived happily ever after. 
The End


----------



## 1boringguy

Blackfoot Tucker said:


> CT,
> 
> You'd absolutely be right IF there was going to be another Tucker project. But other than possibly some fairly simple stuff to do on the 1544, Putri-Zilla will be our last project Tucker of significance.


As you've said, the work and camaraderie are it's own reward, but it might be you and Scott's turn to spend a little more time out there in the snow, putting one to it's intended use for a while.  
Hope to see you guys out there.


----------



## Pontoon Princess

1boringguy said:


> As you've said, the work and camaraderie are it's own reward, but it might be you and Scott's turn to spend a little more time out there in the snow, putting one to it's intended use for a while.
> Hope to see you guys out there.


rumor has it, 

both, the green weenie and thundercat will be at SV2022


----------



## Cidertom

Blackfoot Tucker said:


> CT,
> 
> You'd absolutely be right IF there was going to be another *Tucker *project. But other than possibly some fairly simple stuff to do on the 1544, Putri-Zilla will be our *last* project *Tucker* of significance.


Next up? Thiokol? Bombardier?


----------



## Pontoon Princess

Cidertom said:


> Next up? Thiokol? Bombardier?


rumor has it, BFT has landed upon something special...


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

Sno-Drifter and CiderTom, 

Honestly, the plan is no more big Tucker projects (or snowcat projects, if you prefer, to include other brands). I started with one machine, then got up to three - and wanted to get back to one. I achieved that goal…and then a 1643 showed up on ksl.com. I PM’ed a forum member about it, and they blew it off. I couldn’t pass it up, but I had no plans to turn it into a huge project. Then that darn WBJ1 wanted to buy it and talked me into a long list of upgrades and modifications. (He may claim to be a lowly chicken wing salesman, be he can sell ice to Eskimos!) That’s similar to how the 1544 and TUG were acquired… too good to pass up. However, I am working on improving my fiscal discipline to resist such purchases in the future. (PP is not a good influence!)

1BG, 

You bring up a very valid point. The US military tracks the number of maintenance hours per flight hour for various aircraft and depending on the source, it’s typically around 20-25 for fighter aircraft after they’ve matured a bit. I WISH we spent only 25 hours working on the machines for every hour of use. I don’t want to know the real number, because the relationship is absolutely abysmal.

I can say unequivocally that both SV 2020 and SV 2021 were spectacular events for Scott and for me. We enjoyed ourselves so much it just about made all the hours of work worth it, and we’re greatly looking forward to SV 2022. We will be there for sure, and hopefully The Green Weenie and Thundercat will be there with us.


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

The wiring phase of the project is just about complete. 

We installed the backup camera and its cable all the way up to under the dash panel. (The display will be mounted on the flat shelf behind the windshield and above the dash panel.) We needed a cable roughly 15’ long, but the camera and display system WBJ1 provided came with 20 *meters* of cable. Having an extra 45’ of cable coiled up under the dash seems so lame I think Scott will cut out what isn’t needed and splice the ends with soldered joints.

The cable ends are somewhat large, about 5/8”in diameter, while the cable itself is roughly 3/16”. Scott and I like to use rubber grommets wherever cable or wire pass through metal, be it a relatively thin sheet metal skin, or a frame member. But finding the grommet with the dimensions you need (especially locally) can be difficult. Twice we’ve run up against this and I end up driving to several businesses that I’m reasonably sure will have them…only to strike out. So I look online and find them without too much trouble. Yes, you are going to pay for shipping, and of course there’s a delay, but you avoid the wasted time and gas of driving all over town and coming up short. Right now we’re waiting for the grommets to finish wiring the backup lights….

After running the backup light wires and the backup camera cable, both were covered with the nylon split loom I previously mentioned, and secured to the cab frame with stainless steel cushion clamps. We think that setup has a clean, professional look.

Here’s the backup camera mounted to the orange panel.





And the split loom installed and secured to the cab frame. Note the rear dome light is also installed.

 I have no idea why, but Tucker installs the dome lights off the cab centerline to the left. When we removed the goofy bulkhead and installed our version of a center roll bar, we also relocated the dome light mounting plates to the cab centerline. Both dome lights will turn on when the driver’s door is opened, and they can be manually turned on with a switch on the gauge and switch panel. There are switches on the dome lights themselves to turn them off. 





I must confess…we decided to abandon our plan of replacing all the nutserts in proper alignment to mount the gauge and switch panel. The biggest reason is the panel itself doesn’t have much of a margin outside the mounting holes, and the larger diameter nutserts would not be completely covered by the panel. The lesser of two evils was to carefully slot three of the mounting holes to allow the installation of the mounting bolts.

We also installed the gas tank and fuel quantity sender. When we originally removed the tank it had spacers to keep it off the steel plate underneath the tank and away from the cab sidewall. The existing spacers were cut from used track belting and we decided to replace them. We used 1/2” rubber horse stall mat for the cab side spacers and truck mudflap material for the vertical spacers. The tank is roughly four feet long and 18” high and does a good job of hiding some of the BSG paint.





While we were in installation mode we also installed the windshield wiper motor and its mechanical linkage, and the steering column and orbitrol were partially installed (need more fasteners to finish the job).  

This is maybe a good time to relate part of our working relationship. After completing work and putting everything away one night, we were washing our hands before heading out to get a bite to eat. I remarked  “We had a pretty productive night” meaning: we got a fair bit accomplished. Scott then says “Yes, it was productive. I got in some good licks” meaning: he measures productivity by the amount of harassment he dishes out! 

Speaking of harassment… A few years ago Scott had an employee named Amanda who worked as a welder. While she worked for Scott she also was attending night school to become a nurse, and once she finished the book work left Scott’s employ to finish the practical requirements of the degree. Anyway, if you were working on something, and especially if whatever task you were trying to accomplish was being frustrating, Amanda would come by and say “Are ya done yet?” It was very obnoxious, and often the phrase would be repeated more than once for maximum effect. If the task took some time, the whole “Are ya done yet” experience could happen multiple times. Well, Amanda’s legacy lives on, and the phrase is fair game for either Scott or me to use at the most advantageous time to create the greatest annoyance to the other. 

Next week the initial plan is to get the fuel lines (plural) installed. There is a combination pressure regulator and filter that has a return-to-tank line on it and that must be plumbed as well as the fuel supply line. Scott claims he’s done bending fuel line and he’ll watch me do it (and laugh). We’ll see… We need to paint four pieces of the aluminum floor panels and then maybe start installing the floor along with sound deadening material. Then probably interior upholstery…. (I’d also like to install the large Weatherguard box on the outside of the cab on the right as it will hide a bunch more of the BSG paint.) 

There are a lot of tasks yet to accomplish….


----------



## The Sweet Wbj1

I am not sure why you are happy about hiding that Beautiful Sexy Green paint!!! Sure can't see your reflection in that fuel tank!!


----------



## Pontoon Princess

The Sweet Wbj1 said:


> I am not sure why you are happy about hiding that Beautiful Sexy Green paint!!! Sure can't see your reflection in that fuel tank!!


The Gas tank can be painted shiny, very glossy Orange, there, problem taken care of !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

Pontoon Princess said:


> The Gas tank can be painted shiny, very glossy Orange, there, problem taken care of !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Maybe we could "accidentally" get some orange over spray all over the BSG paint.


----------



## Pontoon Princess

The Sweet Wbj1 said:


> I am not sure why you are happy about hiding that Beautiful Sexy Green paint!!! Sure can't see your reflection in that fuel tank!!


sexy green paint, hmmmm, sexy, green..........


----------



## sno-drifter

Blackfoot Tucker said:


> Maybe we could "accidentally" get some orange over spray all over the BSG paint.


Factory


----------



## luvthemvws

As Kermit once put it: "It isn't easy being green."


----------



## Track Addict

The new green deal!


----------



## Cidertom

I really think that maybe we should celebrate the di-worsity that WBJ1 brings to the group.  There is room for all colors of cats.  It's very similar to the arguments/comments/opinions about Fire Engine colors I've heard for the last 40 years.  I especially appreciate the variety he brings, it seems to give people an easier target than the flaking peeling paint my cat has.


----------



## Track Addict

I can get on board with camo for the fuel tank.  Ethanol free should be around 5$ by sv 2022.  Hiding the tank safe investment.


----------



## Pontoon Princess

Track Addict said:


> I can get on board with camo for the fuel tank.  Ethanol free should be around 5$ by sv 2022.  Hiding the tank safe investment.


guessing ethanol free gas will be about $10.00 a gallon......thank you Brandon

repaint at MAACO is $299.99 any cat, any color, they are running a special on Orange, $99.99


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

I am pleased to report all the LED lights are finally installed and tested! In my best R. Lee Ermey impersonation: HooRah! 

A pic of the backup lights installed.





And illuminated. 





We installed a resettable 150 amp circuit breaker in the wiring from the battery to the in-cab electrical panel. The empty lug on top is awaiting cable from the yet-to-be-installed battery. We connected the wire to the steering column for the horn, and the wires to the electric fuel pump, then tested the horn and wiper system for functionality. (The fuel pump is controlled by the engine’s ECM, and that needs to be sent out to be re-programmed.) There are only a few wiring tasks remaining.





We then started installing the various aluminum pieces that make up the floor and rear footwell area. Tucker uses fairly small, hex-head self threading machine screws. We have found them to be a major pain in the neck when trying to remove them. They have a tendency to rust/corrode in place and are very easily broken on removal. The best technique we’ve found is to use a small cordless impact wrench and feather the trigger so it’s hammering away, but not putting much torque on the bolt head. The hammering action tends to loosen the rust/corrosion and there’s a decent chance you’ll then be able to remove the screw. If you do break one while trying to remove it…the fun begins. 

Naturally, that broken off bolt lines up perfectly with the hole in the aluminum floor panel and you’d you want to use a new fastener in the same location. But that broken bolt is hardened steel and it does not drill well with normal High Speed Steel drill bits. One could get a cobalt or carbide drill bit, but we didn’t have any on hand. Scott’s solution is to use a center punch on the broken bolt and beat on it with a big hammer; stripping the threads as he drives the bolt out of the hole. This method works, though you have to use a lot of force on the stubborn bolt.    

However, we won’t reuse them, or new ones of the same design. We prefer to use closed end POP rivets. In some cases we used stainless steel pop rivets, and in others aluminum POP rivets, where it may be necessary to remove the item at some point by drilling them out. That’s how we’ll attach the various floor and footwell pieces. Here’s the right rear footwell panel in position.





When we originally did the painting, the front seat floor pans had not been media blasted, so they weren’t painted and one of the footwell side panels was damaged by one of Scott’s employees. The original side panels had some minor damage during previous ownership, so this was the excuse to make new ones and replace them. But now we had to spray these panels prior to installation. 

Here's the previous damage. If you look at the bottom center of the panel you can see it probably had some grouser contact at some point.





Here’s a pic of the newly sprayed panels curing.





While I was mixing the paint, I had a thought…. We’ve all heard of “hazardous duty pay”. Well, it occurred to me there should be "hideous duty pay” as well. One would be entitled to it if they had to work on hideous vehicles, and the BSG color on Putri-Zilla would very definitely qualify as hideous! 

After the panels cured we set about installing them. In our opinion, fewer panels are better, but Tucker has the opposite approach. If my memory is correct, there are 18 individual pieces that make up Putri-Zilla’s floor. While on the one hand we would like to start from scratch and do a proper job, the time involved is significant, and we are under a time crunch to get the machine done. So the original ones get reused, except for the two we had to replace. However, the piece that “fits” around the steering column is so pathetically awful I strongly suspect we will replace it with a part that fits a whole lot better. I’ll have to take a photo of that and include it in the next update. Yes, it really is every bit as bad as I’m describing.

Here are the rear area panels installed. If you think the rivet spacing is wonky, we agree, but that is Tucker factory work. "Just put ‘em wherever” seems to be the factory’s method. 





The front floor is only partially installed. In addition to the steering column issue, we need to plumb the transmission's fluid cooler and add the sender for the transmission temperature gauge before the floor gets installed. We plan to do that next week, as well as installing sound deadening material and hopefully some “upholstery” as well. I had hoped to get the Weatherguard box installed but Scott protested that installing it would make it more difficult to rivet the rear footwell side panels. Now that’s complete, he’ll have to come up with another reason….


----------



## Pontoon Princess

hereby giving notice to one, chadzilla--------

we, the minions, are officially on strike,

we demand in no uncertain terms, better orange conditions to work in!

no orange, no tucker....


----------



## sno-drifter

luvthemvws said:


> As Kermit once put it: "It isn't easy being green."


So what is this fight over green paint? Seems to be the best color for us environmentalist types. I hug trees too.


----------



## The Sweet Wbj1

sno-drifter said:


> So what is this fight over green paint? Seems to be the best color for us environmentalist types. I hug trees too.


Yes! GREEN for the win! I think this is a candidate for post of the year!!!


----------



## Pontoon Princess

The Sweet Wbj1 said:


> Yes! GREEN for the win! I think this is a candidate for post of the year!!!


does not change the fact the minions are on strike for better orange conditions


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

sno-drifter said:


> So what is this fight over green paint? Seems to be the best color for us environmentalist types. I hug trees too.


Sno-Drifter,

I know you’ve tackled some big projects, so you know that over the duration of a project at first you’re full of enthusiasm and motivation, and that you will run into unanticipated issues (and costs), and it takes a lot longer than you think it should. After a while it gets to be a bit of a slog, but once it starts going back together you regain enthusiasm and it becomes fun again. Well, with Putri-Zilla the awful color is overwhelming. It takes away your motivation and saps your project energy. You’re always in "slog mode”, and it shouldn’t be that way.

I imagine at some point it will be finished and The Infamous WBJ1 showing it to a friend, neighbor, etc. The exchange might go like this:

The Infamous WBJ1: "It’s a Tucker Sno-Cat" 

And the friend/neighbor thinks: “And it’s ugly”

TIWBJ1: "It’s a three-door, and they're somewhat rare” 

And the friend/neighbor thinks: “And it’s ugly”

TIWBJ1: "It has long tracks for better flotation, and the damper wheels make it quieter" 

And the friend/neighbor thinks: “And it’s ugly”

TIWBJ1: "It has a Warn winch to pull out stuck Pisten Bullys and Snow Tracs"

And the friend/neighbor thinks: “And it’s ugly”

This could go on for a while, but the gist is for all it’s nice features and upgrades, at the end of the day…IT’S UGLY! 


By the way Sno-Drifter, I got a chuckle imagining you as a tree hugger chaining yourself to a tree while on a hunger strike.  While I know you you have a genuine love for wood, I think it’s the wood in other than tree form.


----------



## Pontoon Princess

it's ugly,  you have a very smart neighbor/friend

and how does anyone knows sno drifters picture of a tucker is still green and or has it been returned to the wonderful Orange it was born with

I know for a fact, sno drifter stands out in the forest hugging his trees, mmm might he be doing this to measure the diameter to determine how big the chain saw bar needs to be?


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

Pontoon Princess said:


> it's ugly,  you have a very smart neighbor/friend
> 
> and how does anyone knows sno drifters picture of a tucker is still green and or has it been returned to the wonderful Orange it was born with
> 
> I know for a fact, sno drifter stands out in the forest hugging his trees, mmm might he be doing this to measure the diameter to determine how big the chain saw bar needs to be?


I could see Sno-Drifter approaching a monster tree with a huge chain saw and a grin on his face...


----------



## DAVENET

Blackfoot Tucker said:


> Well, with Putri-Zilla the awful color is overwhelming. It takes away your motivation and saps your project energy. You’re always in "slog mode”, and it shouldn’t be that way.



That sounds a lot like Kryptonite.  Which, of course, was . . . . . . .green


----------



## Track Addict

I’m green with envy.


----------



## 1boringguy

In the Yin and Yang of the green universe  ........... on the one side we have Heart Chakra as "It deals with our ability to both give and receive love to ourselves and others.", and on the other from Biker wisdom, "If you rode a green bike, it was believed, you were likely to crash and die."

Don't know just what the green snocat lore actually is, but it seems to be coagulating here. I recall the old cereal commercial, 'let Mikey try it'. The Sweet Mikey Wbj1 , looks like you're up dude


----------



## sno-drifter

How about a green Freighter?


----------



## The Sweet Wbj1

sno-drifter said:


> How about a green Freighter?


Sno Drifter I like you more and more! If I was ever to hit the lottery and wind up with PP money or TLBFT money, there's about NO LIMIT to what I would pay you for a GREEN FREIGHTER!!


----------



## Pontoon Princess

The Sweet Wbj1 said:


> Sno Drifter I like you more and more! If I was ever to hit the lottery and wind up with PP money or TLBFT money, there's about NO LIMIT to what I would pay you for a GREEN FREIGHTER!!


sno drifter, please stop encouraging the young boy, his brain is just mush and very very impressionable, bless his heart, he is, that kid in the candy store and frankly you are corrupting him, it is child abuse, please show him the errors of his way, Orange is Orange.

fyi: " the sweet wbj1", with sour taste in colors, there is no green freighter, that is primer, the freighter is ORANGE, matter of fact, sno drifter bleeds Orange...thinks Orange, drives Orange trucks, wears Orange, and thinks Orange, named his dog, you guessed it, Orange, his wife has Orange hair, he lives in an Orange house, his kids middle names are, Orange, yes, both kids middle names, is Orange, lives in Orangeville Oregon 

he is Mr. Orange


----------



## DAVENET

Toss up as to which is more valuable in that picture . . .
Also, that is a FANTASTIC picture in that picture!


----------



## sno-drifter

Unless I am color blind, What color is PP's Kitten? Something about the pot calling the kettle GREEN. You have been outed PP. See, there is not even one snow catter that doesn't do green.
Sweet Wbj1 we will settle the finances later. March?
As I recall, Mr. DAVENET, you had something to do with the picture?







u


----------



## Pontoon Princess

sno-drifter said:


> Unless I am color blind, What color is PP's Kitten? Something about the pot calling the kettle GREEN. You have been outed PP. See, there is not even one snow catter that doesn't do green.
> Sweet Wbj1 we will settle the finances later. March?
> As I recall, Mr. DAVENET, you had something to do with the picture?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> u


for clarification, the kitten was owned by the USFS and NOT responsible for what color they painted, fyi, under the damn ugly green is factory tucker Orange.

I did not paint the kitten GREEN...

it is a sin against the snow cat GODS to willfully paint a tucker GREEN, so help your soul, sweet one

Davenet, that photo, is one of the very best I have ever seen, fabulous photo, unmatched

BFT, I will be over with the trailer to pickup BSGzilla, I am going to paint it the correct color, ORANGE, next week...and end the misery of the minions


----------



## The Sweet Wbj1

Sno Drifter I am thinking you may have gotten us both in trouble!


----------



## LakeTucker

Whoa whoa and whoa....  Is someone poking fun at Mr. Ranger? Don't make me send Loggah after ya! He likes Mr Ranger!


----------



## Track Addict

Think there is a pontoon exemption for the orange mandate.


----------



## The Sweet Wbj1

Y'all are gonna make PP blow a fuse!!!!


----------



## Pontoon Princess

you kids, can paint tuckers any color you want, go for it.....I will even supply the non tucker orange finger paints

I will be stepping down as the princess of pontoons, I have failed...

will be taking a new position of pontoon minion


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

sno-drifter said:


> See, there is not even one snow catter that doesn't do green.


Sno-Drifter,

Let the record reflect my green snowcat involvement is under extreme duress....


Pontoon Princess said:


> for clarification, the kitten was owned by the USFS and NOT responsible for what color they painted, fyi, under the damn ugly green is factory tucker Orange.
> 
> I did not paint the kitten GREEN...
> 
> it is a sin against the snow cat GODS to willfully paint a tucker GREEN, so help your soul, sweet one
> 
> Davenet, that photo, is one of the very best I have ever seen, fabulous photo, unmatched
> 
> BFT, I will be over with the trailer to pickup BSGzilla, I am going to paint it the correct color, ORANGE, next week...and end the misery of the minions


I wholeheartedly approve! The Snowcat Gods would be at rest from witnessing the travesty of BSG on SnowZilla

Just say the word and we'll start removing the roof-top carrier, the gas tank and the newly installed Weatherguard box on the side.

That's like divine intervention to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat!


----------



## Cidertom

Yep, just like the color discussions about Fire Engines.  Next up: cage match fisti-cuffs.  NO NO NO. There is room for all snow cats. yellow,red,orange,omaha-orange blue, camo.  Certainly, certain brands are associated with certain colors.  But, I have seen bright blue coming out of a building on pacific hwy in Medford Oregon.  And I will admit that while even the USMC mountain training sno-cats are omaha-orange there is room even for green and greenish army colors usually associated with plastic toy soldiers.  

Lets agree to disagree, and resume the polite discussions of such uncontroversial things as: turbo vs normal aspirated, Tennessee Whisky vs Bourbon, nitro vs CO2 beer, fuel injection vs carburetor.......


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

With the wiring phase almost complete, we shifted to other tasks. I wanted to get the Weatherguard box installed, and that went off pretty smoothly. We had installed outriggers to support the box by cutting square holes through the cab skin and welding pieces of square tube on top of the Tucker's truss frame. We must have welded those at a slight angle, because the box leans in slightly. As you add weight to the box the lean corrects somewhat, but we're considering adding some shims under the box to make it level.  

Side view. (If you’re wondering what’s hanging off the rear step area, that’s a nylon strap Scott uses to move Putri-Zilla. He picks up the back of the machine with a forklift to move it in and out of the shop.)





A view from the front.





For the floor in the rear foot well area Tucker uses plywood and the original piece was due for replacement. We purchased a new piece of plywood, took careful measurements, marked the plywood and cut it to size. Good ol’ Murphy showed up as after the plywood had been cut, we found it had de-laminated in the middle of the sheet. It looked fine on all the edges but the inside was damaged. We brought the cut sheet back and exchanged it for a new one. Neither of us have seen this happen before.





Once the replacement plywood was cut to size and the green paint had dried, Scott secured it to the frame with eight self-drilling flat head screws.  

Now it was time to start installing the gray carpet “upholstery”, and we thought it made sense to start on the roof. The chosen carpet has a linear grain to it. We had decided to orient the grain vertically on the side walls, so it wouldn’t catch dirt, but the question for the roof was “Do we position the grain parallel with the machine or perpendicular to it"? I asked Scott his thoughts and without missing a beat he says “Diagonally”. Mr. Helpful…. I can just picture him 40 years ago in high school history class and the teacher asking “Where was the Declaration of Independence signed” and Scott volunteering “At the bottom of the page”. Yup, that’s Scott.

Several months ago I had the opportunity to visit a company that makes absolutely gorgeous interiors for small, general aviation aircraft, predominately Beechcraft. They are not inexpensive but the creativity and craftsmanship are really impressive and naturally they use top quality materials. The owner shared with me that they don’t use contact cement, but rather a similar but stronger adhering product that holds up better in extended sun exposure; Landau Top Adhesive. That’s what we’re using on Putri-Zilla. It’s made for spraying and the consistency is less viscous than regular contact cement. We don’t spray it, but rather brush it on, and the thinner consistency is much easier to work with. Once again, I was the cutter and Scott was the installer. We took measurements and I cut the various pieces to size, then they were put in place to confirm proper fit. At that point the adhesive was applied and Scott then put the cut pieces into final position. The roof sections were the hardest to work with. You simply don’t have enough hands to hold the carpet panels in proper position to check the fit, so it came down to “Well we measured carefully and the pieces were cut accordingly. Let’s put the glue on and go for it.” And that plan worked perfectly; undoubtedly due to the cutter’s skill!









If you’re thinking “What did those morons install off center between the middle cushion clamps”? That’s actually a stainless steel bolt that is the front mount for the roof-top carrier.





Honestly, we have been pleasantly surprised how quickly the process has been moving (so far, anyway) and I will also admit it looks better than I thought it would. There are a total of 28 pieces of carpet on the roof, sidewalls and kick panels, and we have installed 17 of them. I hope to finish the other 11 early next week and then we’ll start on the rear cab where the seat bottom cushions attach. We're going to use the same recycled rubber material we used on Thundercat’s floor It's on order and should arrive within a week or so. Installing it will be very time consuming as it either fits together tightly like a jigsaw puzzle, or it looks like Bubba and Billy Bob did it after drinking a case (or two) of beer. 

It’s also time to bring all the seats to an upholstery shop to have them recovered. The Infamous WBJ1 would probably be content to sit on an upside down bucket or milk crate, but he gets outvoted. (Picture the scene from the movie My Cousin Vinny and Judge Chamberlain Haller saying “Overruled” in his inimitable southern accent to one of Vinny’s objections.)


----------



## Pontoon Princess

got to paint the very bright and shiny handle on the tool box, yikes

otherwise

it looks like you are doing the best you can, for a couple knuckleheads, bless you hearts,

orange seats?


----------



## sno-drifter

Pontoon Princess said:


> I know for a fact, sno drifter stands out in the forest hugging his trees, mmm might he be doing this to measure the diameter to determine how big the chain saw bar needs to be?


Bar looks to be just a little short for this average size tree.


----------



## loggah

sno-drifter said:


> Bar looks to be just a little short for this average size tree.


I would say a bit longer bar is in order !!!!


----------



## Snowy Rivers

Back in the summer of 2015 we contracted a company to log our place here.

The trees had not been harvested since 1937....10 years prior to my parents purchasing the property.
I had not been into the lower area of the place in years, but I knew there were some fair sized trees in there.

Late one afternoon one of the Fellers came walking into the yard (Standard size saw on his shoulder) and asked if I was the owner..."YES I AM"


Conversation ensued about what he had discovered down below....

I smiled and said "Oh ...maybe some old stumps in the 12 to 14 foot at the butt range.

The young guy had never seen anything that big.

The springboard notches are still visible even after all these years.

This time around we had some trees that were a touch over 6 feet at the butt....Only one mill that can handle stuff that big.
They had to go down to a mill in Riddle  (Oregon)

Yeah.....back in 37 those boys cut the trees with LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG hand saws.....Like the ones ya see all painted with pretty scenes hanging over a fireplace mantle in lodges these days.....

I think there were 5-6 loads of the big stuff that went to Riddle.......

Don't take many of those to fill a truck.

A bygone era .......

Now they want 10 inch to 32 inch stuff (Twigs)


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

AHA!    Busted, Mr. Sno-Drifter.

"Tree Hugger", indeed. It's more likely your picture is on Wanted Posters in Tree Hugger offices from coast to coast!


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

The Thanksgiving holiday shortened our workweek to a measly two days. Meanwhile, SV 2022 is now seven days closer. That relationship is not good when you have a whole lot of work to get done. 

I mentioned in my last post that we had installed 17 of the 28 carpet pieces that go on the roof, side walls, kick panels and end walls. We installed ten of the remaining eleven and then set about working on the rear seat area and the foot well. We first installed sound deadening mat on the sides of the footwell, and then on the seam where the footwell sides meet the rear seat area horizontal floor we installed adhesive backed aluminum tape. Next, we covered the foot well’s floor with sound deadening material. To try and minimize waste, lots of smaller pieces of the sound deadening mat were utilized. 

Full coverage of sound deadening material in the rear of the cab.





A close-up of the taped seam I described.





We discussed different options for rear upholstery coverage. Certainly we wanted the black rubber for the foot well’s floor and we considered both rubber and carpet options for the foot well sides. Choosing rubber would almost guarantee an ugly seem at the same top location we used the aluminum tape on, but we were facing the same issue if we did the top and sides in separate pieces of carpet. Overlapping the carpet would solve that, but due to the shape and geometric relationship it would be impossible to do one side with only one piece of carpet. However we thought most of the seam would be covered by the seat bottom cushion, and that was our best option. 

This is the right side front piece all glued in position. The carpet followed the sharp corner surprisingly well, and... no seam on the top corner!





The rear pieces will be the challenging ones...


----------



## Pontoon Princess

you knuckleheads better be getting your priorities straight and up your hours per week and git-r-dun...

despite your lack luster work effort, looking pretty good for a couple knuckleheads


----------



## The Sweet Wbj1

Pontoon Princess said:


> you knuckleheads better be getting your priorities straight and up your hours per week and git-r-dun...
> 
> despite your lack luster work effort, looking pretty good for a couple knuckleheads


The Loveable Curmudgeon and The Sweet Gorilla!!


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

PP,

 I assure you I am doing everything I can to move this project along as quickly as I can. Scott is so busy with work, life and a new “love interest”, it’s difficult to get/keep him focused on Putri-Zilla. The term “herding cats” is fair, and that would make me… The Cat Wrangler!


----------



## Pontoon Princess

Blackfoot Tucker said:


> PP,
> 
> I assure you I am doing everything I can to move this project along as quickly as I can. Scott is so busy with work, life and a new “love interest”, it’s difficult to get/keep him focused on Putri-Zilla. The term “herding cats” is fair, and that would make me… The Cat Wrangler!


Hee Haw, head them up, move them out, rawhide, cat wrangler...


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

This week we got in almost five nights of work! Friday was a short night... as Scott got in trouble for working even a few hours. But we did get a fair bit done this week.

As I alluded to earlier, the rear pieces of carpet were a challenge. The top of the rear seat floor area is shaped like a trapezoid and the vertical side of the foot well extends perpendicularly from the diagonal side of the trapezoid. To make it just a bit more difficult, the foot well stops short of the end of the trapezoid. Lots of careful measuring, then drawing the shape out on paper with dimensions helps visualize what exactly needs to be cut. That’s followed by still more careful measuring using straight edges and a framing square, before cutting; all the while thinking “I hope I don’t screw this up”. And... the result was two pieces that fit almost perfectly with just a little trimming required. This was one of those project victories when you think “Maybe I do know what I’m doing”…





If you’re curious as to how Tucker did it, here are some pics. The rear seat bottom cushions extend from close to the sidewall over the edge and into the foot well area, almost completely covering what I’ve been referring to as the “rear seat floor area”.





The seat bottom cushions stop short of the rear end of the cab and Tucker installed some carpet at the back of the rear seat floor area. They dealt with the seam issue with some aluminum trim.





With the rear complete except for the floor of the foot well, we moved up to the front floor area. Neither Scott nor I are the least bit impressed with Tucker’s floor panel design, or execution. But as I mentioned earlier, time constraints preclude a proper solution which would be throwing the Tucker factory’s efforts on the scrap heap and starting over. Therefore, we limited the scope of our work to making minor improvements to Tucker’s panels.

Before installing the front floor we needed to run the lines to and from the transmission cooler, and incorporate a transmission temperature sender as well. While we would prefer to use custom hoses with crimped-on fittings, those are much more costly than the more typical rubber hoses with worm drive hose clamps, and we are trying to minimize expenses for WBJ1, so that’s what we went with. There wasn’t much room to work with and it took three separate trips to hydraulic shops to get the combination of fittings that would work. We believe the place to measure the transmission temperature is where the fluid leaves the transmission enroute to the cooler. That will be a higher temperature than measuring the cooled fluid, and since heat damages the transmission components, you want to know how hot the fluid is. The fittings that thread into the transmission are an O-Ring Boss style and the one that the temperature sender got plumbed into was a challenge. The transmission has a breather cap and we had to remove that pressed-in fitting, thread in our new O-Ring Boss 90º elbow, and then reinstall the breather fitting. (There is such a thing as an extended height elbow, but that wouldn’t fit underneath the transmission tunnel cover.) 

While making the multiple trips to get the right parts for the transmission cooler plumbing, we re-configured the transmission shifter and then installed that in the dash panel. More careful measuring to ensure it would fit properly over the heater’s fan motor, then cutting into the dash panel for the shifter mechanism installation. Our 1544 project came from the factory with an Allison AT 545 and we thought Tucker’s shifter setup with an optional mounting wedge worked well, so we used the same setup. Yes, some credit to Tucker!





Note how I refrained from making a remark about the ugly green color… (Oops, I guess I snuck that in.)

Another view.





Here’s pic of the Tucker factory floor panels where the transmission tunnel meets the right side front floor. I’ve owned three 1980 model Tuckers and all three have been the same. (Note: the brass fitting you see through the hole is for the transmission cooler supply line hose.)





Many companies who manufacture products make changes during production to improve product quality or to lower costs of manufacturing. Albert Einstein defined idiocy as doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. I think making the same mistake over and over, and being okay with a very obvious flaw is an even greater offense.  Another Einstein quote “Two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe”. I wonder what he’d say about Tucker?

We then installed sound deadening mat over the front floor. The piece that fits around the steering column is cut to shape but is not glued down as we’re waiting for a part that must be installed before the sound deadening mat can be glued down.





In theory, it should be possible to cover the mat with two pieces of rubber, but that’s a heck of a challenge as there is no cheating with the rubber, and the shape is very complex, which means lots of opportunities to make a mistake. Of course, in theory Tucker could have made the front floor in three pieces… and they didn’t even try. They used seven.


----------



## The Sweet Wbj1

That looks GREAT!! Should we change Scott's nickname from The Sweet Gorilla to The Lovestruck Gorilla??


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

"Sweet Gorilla” was/is as fantastical as "Sweet WBJ1”, or that Scott was “pure, white and innocent”. However, "Lovestruck Gorilla" seems very accurate based on current behavior.

I mentioned the new name last night (of course with proper attribution as to the source) and he protested only mildly. Then he announced he was told he “can’t” work on Friday nights anymore….


----------



## The Sweet Wbj1

Blackfoot Tucker said:


> "Sweet Gorilla” was/is as fantastical as "Sweet WBJ1”, or that Scott was “pure, white and innocent”. However, "Lovestruck Gorilla" seems very accurate based on current behavior.
> 
> I mentioned the new name last night (of course with proper attribution as to the source) and he protested only mildly. Then he announced he was told he “can’t” work on Friday nights anymore….


So I was reading off these last few posts to Jenn and she asked a great question!! Will we get to meet The Lovestruck Gorilla's new lady at SV22???


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

There’s been a long delay since the last update. I wish I could say we were feverishly working and making lots of progress. Unfortunately, some medical issues on my part and some Lovestruck Gorilla lifestyle “constraints” put a serious crimp on our progress. And of course the ever-present typical project setbacks just made it that much worse. 

We started the process of cutting and fitting the carpet section for under the front seats and glued that down, then started on the front floor rubber floor pieces. Scott and I talked about different options for how we’d divide up the floor, and how many individual pieces would make for the optimal installation. In my previous post I said it’s possible to do it in two pieces, but it would be challenging. We decided on three; not because two would be too difficult, but because where the panels would meet on the top front of the transmission tunnel would not look as good as if that piece was full length. 

With Thundercat we made patterns for each piece and checked the fit before cutting rubber. It yields a great result, but it’s also hugely time consuming. We thought we would sacrifice a little of that precision for the sake of expediency and decided to omit the pattern making step of the process. Sure enough, the first piece I cut …was scrap. Scott had been working on the new battery mounting brackets and I decided to wait until he was done. Then we’d work together and simultaneously cross check the measuring and cutting methodology to create the correct cut shape. Much better results! But we had to wait for the steering column’s grommet to arrive to complete the floor installation process. In my experience some vendors deserve mention when they deliver consistently good service. When it comes to rubber grommets, my go-to supplier is Rubber Feet Warehouse in South Carolina. They have an excellent selection, great pricing, a reasonable minimum order size and shipping charges aren’t outrageous.

Backing up just a bit, here’s a pic of the panel Tucker uses around the steering column. In the photo the panel is backwards, the square side is actually on the left and it “fits” around the steering column’s horn wiring connection. In our opinion the steering wheel was too high, and we lowered it by moving the steering column down a few inches. That also meant the horn’s wiring connection was below the floor. We don’t care for the "cut loosely and gob some sealer around it” concept that describes the factory’s methods, so this panel was ripe for improvement.





Part of our earlier front floor panel design improvement resulted in cutting six inches from the panel that makes up the transmission tunnel. That provided a six inch wide length of BSG painted aluminum to work with! Scott squared one end in his “stomp shear” (a fairly light gauge metal shear that you actuate by forcefully pressing down on a large bar with your foot). Next he drilled a 1 3/4” hole in the panel with a hole saw. Then he carefully marked a line through the center of the hole from side-to-side and then he sheared the panel along the line.  We’ll install a rubber grommet that meets our dimensional requirements to create a panel that seals well and looks good. Here’s the thing: this wasn’t time consuming, or difficult. It just took a little bit of thought and effort (heavy emphasis on little).





Side by side. Note the top of Tucker’s panel (on the left) isn’t even cut straight.





Here’s the installed panel with rubber grommet.





For comparison, this is factory. How well will flooring fit around the built up sealer? And how well will it adhere to it?





Also while waiting for the new grommet we spent some time on the transmission’s valve body. The Allison AT 545 was offered in either a single or double neutral shift pattern. This transmission had with a double neutral valve body and in the snowcat application we think the single neutral design is preferable. Some time ago I contacted a truck salvage yard and they told me they had a used single neutral valve body, and the price wasn’t bad, so I went to get it. But it turns out that transmission was installed behind a Diesel engine and there are some differences in the way the valve body is set up as compared to one installed with a gasoline engine. I was assured it wasn’t a big deal to make the changes, and that’s what we finally set about doing. 

The valve body has several internal valves with springs as well as adjusting collars for tension. I was told we needed to swap the springs and adjust the collars to match. The springs are color coded so we carefully noted what came from where, and made the changes accordingly.

Here’s a pic showing some of the adjusting collars.





Then we ran into a wall. After reinstalling the valve body along with a new filter. Scott tried to bolt up a shallow transmission pan, also obtained from the salvage yard…but it wouldn’t fit. Huh? It turns out the shallow pan uses a different design short length of steel tube between the valve body and the transmission than is used on the deep pan. So we intrepidly made a trip to the local Allison dealer to get the short length of tube. Nope. Didn’t have it, and the parts guy thought it was unobtanium from Allison. He suggested we try Weller Transmission, which is a nationwide supplier of rebuilt Allison transmissions. 

Before going any further, here’s a pic of an exploded view diagram. Part number 10 is the tube for the deep style transmission pan and part 11 is the design for the shallow pan.





If anything, it looks like the shallow design is simpler, and nothing looks particularly cosmic about it. I was thinking roughly $30, or so. Yeah… NO JOKE the price is just north of…wait for it… $320. Plus tax, plus shipping. HOLY CR*P!  I don’t like the feeling of being taken advantage of, so note that there is no endorsement of Weller Transmission….

We’re pursuing other alternatives that are more cost effective…

Meanwhile, we’re back working on the floor. Here’s the left front floor with the sound deadening mat installed.





And with the rubber floor cut to fit, and glued down.





The center section of the floor was by far the most difficult as it required quite a bit of careful trimming to get the fit to an acceptable standard. The transmission tunnel sides were particularly challenging and we had to stick the rubber material down and then add weight on top of the rubber to secure it in position while the glue dried. We used pieces of steel scrap Scott had, as well as gallon sized plastic Ziploc bags filled with sand. As I’m writing this, the various weights are still in position, so I don't have any pics of the finished front floor. 

The rear floor was frustrating as well. We carefully cut the rubber to shape and glued it down…except the rubber would unstick and “bubble up” in places. So we’d press it back into place and it would bubble up again. This got old... fast, so I grabbed some more pieces of steel scrap to place on top of the areas that were bubbling up. No sooner than I’d get one area fixed, another would pop up, and it basically became a game of whack-a-mole with the recalcitrant rubber floor material. Hopefully, I got 'em all.


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

The darn moles beat me. I thought I had everything covered, but when I turned my back a couple new bubbles showed up that I didn’t see. ARRRGGGH! Not horrific, but not the way it should be.

A long time ago we had cut off the factory battery mounting bracket and a scabbed-on rather pathetic winch battery bracket a previous owned added. The plan had been to design and fabricate new ones later on. The downside of this is we knew we’d damage the paint and have to do some touch-up, but that’s the route we took and now it’s time to address locating and installing the batteries. Putri-Zilla came with the optional front Warn winch and as an electric winch it runs off the vehicle’s electrical system. It’s possible when using an electric winch to deplete the vehicle battery to the point if the engine stalls, the battery doesn’t have enough juice left to re-start the engine. To prevent this, many people will install a second battery AND also install a battery separator. That allows one battery for the engine and the other for the winch, but both are tied into the alternator for charging purposes through the battery separator. 

Again, we tossed ideas back and forth and one of the objectives was to keep the batteries away from the engine’s heat. We decided to put the vehicle battery on the left side, close to the firewall (slightly aft of where Tucker installed it) and the winch’s battery on the right side just behind the radiator. The factory battery mounting brackets are made from 3/4” angle and they have support legs also made of 3/4” angle welded to the frame. Our 1544 also came with a factory installed winch and it had two batteries. The vehicle battery was mounted with the usual 3/4” angle legs and where they were welded to the frame had broken, been re welded and broken at least twice more. It was a mess! Scott explained to me a long time ago that square tube is strongest in the corners and weakest in the middle. I bet you know where those legs were welded! 

If you think about the surface area of a 3/4” angle that’s only 1/8” thick, you realize all that battery weight is concentrated in a small area, and that concentrated stress makes failure more likely. We chose to make our brackets from 1” angle (that’s what Scott had on hand) and the support legs from 1 1/2” x 1” rectangular tube with a 1/8” wall thickness. That spreads the weight better, but the engine side vertical wall of the frame’s square tubing was being occupied by wires on the left side, and transmission cooler lines on the right side. That meant our diagonal support legs would be welded to the uprights, and that concentrated more weight on them. To add strength to the frame’s square tube Scott suggested cutting some elongated holes into the frame square tube to weld internal support members, then weld up the holes and clean up the welds to hide everything. The battery bracket support legs are welded directly on top of the supports. The concept is that the weight of the battery on the bracket wants to lift the center of the frame tube where it’s weakest. If we added internal support members welded to the top where the support members will be welded, and also on a bottom corner of the frame tube it will add considerable strength the to mounting design and it’s all hidden. Credit for this design and the fabrication goes to the Lovestruck Gorilla. On a fairly frequent basis he comes up with some creative and effective ideas. I do try and give him the credit he deserves and that’s why I say “He’s the brains and talent…and I’m the one with the bonehead ideas”. 

Here’s a pic with the right side reinforcement plates in position before welding. The attached rods are for positioning the support plates until they are tack welded in position.





Here’s one of the lower cuts where the reinforcement plates get welded toward the bottom of the square tube on the inside. 





We built the battery brackets and I took them home and media blasted them. Painting them in place after welding them to the frame would have been difficult and I wanted a decent paint job. So we painted them off the machine knowing we’d subsequently have to touch up the paint after welding. 

This pic is a little unfair. Scott does not like having his picture taken, and here he is doing final paint touch up with an airbrush. I had done most of the airbrush work and he threatened to take my photo while I was doing so, but he kindly didn’t. Then I suggested he look over my work and I snapped this. He was not pleased. However, if you think of this as small retribution for the harassment I get... you’ll understand.





The finished product. (I still hate the color…)


----------



## HankScorpio

Blackfoot Tucker said:


> The darn moles beat me. I thought I had everything covered, but when I turned my back a couple new bubbles showed up that I didn’t see. ARRRGGGH! Not horrific, but not the way it should be.
> 
> A long time ago we had cut off the factory battery mounting bracket and a scabbed-on rather pathetic winch battery bracket a previous owned added. The plan had been to design and fabricate new ones later on. The downside of this is we knew we’d damage the paint and have to do some touch-up, but that’s the route we took and now it’s time to address locating and installing the batteries. Putri-Zilla came with the optional front Warn winch and as an electric winch it runs off the vehicle’s electrical system. It’s possible when using an electric winch to deplete the vehicle battery to the point if the engine stalls, the battery doesn’t have enough juice left to re-start the engine. To prevent this, many people will install a second battery AND also install a battery separator. That allows one battery for the engine and the other for the winch, but both are tied into the alternator for charging purposes through the battery separator.
> 
> Again, we tossed ideas back and forth and one of the objectives was to keep the batteries away from the engine’s heat. We decided to put the vehicle battery on the left side, close to the firewall (slightly aft of where Tucker installed it) and the winch’s battery on the right side just behind the radiator. The factory battery mounting brackets are made from 3/4” angle and they have support legs also made of 3/4” angle welded to the frame. Our 1544 also came with a factory installed winch and it had two batteries. The vehicle battery was mounted with the usual 3/4” angle legs and where they were welded to the frame had broken, been re welded and broken at least twice more. It was a mess! Scott explained to me a long time ago that square tube is strongest in the corners and weakest in the middle. I bet you know where those legs were welded!
> 
> If you think about the surface area of a 3/4” angle that’s only 1/8” thick, you realize all that battery weight is concentrated in a small area, and that concentrated stress makes failure more likely. We chose to make our brackets from 1” angle (that’s what Scott had on hand) and the support legs from 1 1/2” x 1” rectangular tube with a 1/8” wall thickness. That spreads the weight better, but the engine side vertical wall of the frame’s square tubing was being occupied by wires on the left side, and transmission cooler lines on the right side. That meant our diagonal support legs would be welded to the uprights, and that concentrated more weight on them. To add strength to the frame’s square tube Scott suggested cutting some elongated holes into the frame square tube to weld internal support members, then weld up the holes and clean up the welds to hide everything. The battery bracket support legs are welded directly on top of the supports. The concept is that the weight of the battery on the bracket wants to lift the center of the frame tube where it’s weakest. If we added internal support members welded to the top where the support members will be welded, and also on a bottom corner of the frame tube it will add considerable strength the to mounting design and it’s all hidden. Credit for this design and the fabrication goes to the Lovestruck Gorilla. On a fairly frequent basis he comes up with some creative and effective ideas. I do try and give him the credit he deserves and that’s why I say “He’s the brains and talent…and I’m the one with the bonehead ideas”.
> 
> Here’s a pic with the right side reinforcement plates in position before welding. The attached rods are for positioning the support plates until they are tack welded in position.
> 
> View attachment 143908
> 
> Here’s one of the lower cuts where the reinforcement plates get welded toward the bottom of the square tube on the inside.
> 
> View attachment 143909
> 
> We built the battery brackets and I took them home and media blasted them. Painting them in place after welding them to the frame would have been difficult and I wanted a decent paint job. So we painted them off the machine knowing we’d subsequently have to touch up the paint after welding.
> 
> This pic is a little unfair. Scott does not like having his picture taken, and here he is doing final paint touch up with an airbrush. I had done most of the airbrush work and he threatened to take my photo while I was doing so, but he kindly didn’t. Then I suggested he look over my work and I snapped this. He was not pleased. However, if you think of this as small retribution for the harassment I get... you’ll understand.
> 
> View attachment 143910
> 
> The finished product. (I still hate the color…)
> 
> View attachment 143911


My 1544 has a battery tray just like yours here. It has been welded several times in its life. I had always figured it wasn't factory, but I guess it's in the stock Tucker location after all. If mine comes loose again I will probably steal your idea, nice work.


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

Now that SV 2022 is in the books (Phenomenal event!) Scott and I are back to other snowcat projects, and that means Putri-Zilla. I will mention that it almost was repainted its rightful orange, which would return the machine to its former glory as Snow-Zilla, but in the end the amount of work to do that seemed like a bridge too far. Putri-Zilla it shall ignominiously remain...

For those that weren’t at SV 2022, we brought Thundercat, and we did so without testing it in Utah first. It ran pretty well, though there are some issues to address. One of them is the transmission, and since the one installed in Putri-Zilla is close to identical, I thought I’d discuss it in this thread. 

It’s been a while, so to refresh reader’s memories the transmission is an Allison AT545 (which is also installed in the 1544). Allison has a my transmission website that allows you to enter your transmission's serial number (located on a plate riveted to the right rear of the transmission) and you can see how your transmission was originally built at the factory. Whereas GM, for example, installed the Turbo 400 in numerous GM vehicles, bell housing bolt pattern differences between vehicle brands means you can’t put a transmission from an Oldsmobile behind a Chevrolet engine. The AT545 on the other hand is built with an SAE #3 bolt pattern on the transmission and uses an adapter housing on the engine side. That means you could take an AT545 originally installed in a bread van behind a Cummins 4BT engine, and using a different adapter housing, bolt it up to virtually any engine you can find an adapter housing for. 

That’s pretty darn cool, but it also means the transmission’s configuration was optimized for the 4BT application and that setup is very likely less than optimal when the transmission is installed behind a different engine. Snow-Zilla's, (oops, I mean Putri-Zilla”s) transmission was originally installed in a school bus behind a Chevrolet big block engine. (Thundercat’s was installed in a Schwan’s Ice Cream truck). 

For different applications Allison offers different transmission modulators and governors, as well as different valve body components and settings. Upon returning from SV 2022 I sought out the advice of the local Allison dealer/distributor/service center, Smith Power Products. Scott and I have been there multiple times and when we walk in…the parts guy covers his head. We are that well liked! Seriously though, they have been very helpful and the parts guy suggested I talk with the AT545 guru who has been at Smith for many years.

"Way back when" I spoke with Tucker, and after talking with the fellow Tucker worked with at the Allison dealer/distributor/service center near them, I purchased a modulator “plug” from Tucker. It’s a fixed, but adjustable mechanical modulator. In a conversation with Smith's night shop foreman he was decidedly against the modulator plug concept. He explained the AT545 was similar to some larger Allison transmissions, and in those transmissions when the modulators failed it almost always wiped out either first or fourth gear. So a few of their customers would install a fixed modulator plug in lieu of the normal modulator and that “solved" the problem. However, that also resulted in very harsh shifts. (We can confirm Thundercat's transmission shifts harshly.) The AT545 guru I mentioned recommended we start by replacing the modulator plug with an Allison “soft shift” vacuum modulator (Allison part number 29501199). 

I’ve got one coming and we’re supposed to install that and report back on how it works. The next step may be to change the transmission’s governor. Allison makes three different governors for the AT545. One is for gasoline engines and the other two are for Diesels. (The difference in the Diesel governors being the engine's maximum RPM.) I took the three transmission serial numbers and looked them up on Allison’s my transmission website. Interestingly, the governor in the 1544’s transmission is the gasoline engine governor, but both of the other transmissions have the higher RPM Diesel engine governor.  

Valve body adjustments may also be required. There are adjusting collars installed in front of the springs, and repositioning the adjusting collar will increase or decrease the RPMs at which the transmission shifts. (IIRC each notch in the adjusting collar makes roughly a 50-60 RPM difference in the shift point.) But if that isn’t enough, new springs may be required. There are also trimmer valves which might require some tweaking. The night shop foreman I mentioned said “... if one spends the time to fine tune the transmission, it can be adjusted to shift as smoothly as a car”. I’m a bit skeptical of that, but I believe we can significantly improve the shifting characteristics for our applications.

I know Tucker installed AT545s behind several different engines and in different snowcat models. As the time involved to get the configuration and adjustments right can be significant, I suspect they didn’t spend a whole lot of time refining the setup for any of them. That would also suggest there's room for improvement on our part.


----------



## 1boringguy

Thanks, great info BFT,

I'll definitely be looking forward to your results, as of course I learned mine isn't exactly 'optimum' either.


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

As a preliminary report on the modulator change, I can say the initial impression from driving the machine around the yard after installing the new Allison “soft shift” modulator was promising. Unfortunately, installing it was a bit of a PITA. The modulator is located at exactly the level of the Tucker’s lower truss frame member and there isn’t sufficient room to install it without moving the transmission a bit. That entailed unbolting the transmission mounts from the frame and with some “gentle persuasion” moving it enough to slip the modulator in position. But after the transmission is back in place there is precious little room to install the vacuum line on the modulator's vacuum fitting. A little research showed Dorman makes a 90º rubber vacuum elbow with a sharp 90º bend. (It's P/N 47092.) To install it, one needs to cut a little over an inch from one leg of the fitting and it barely fits inside the frame. That is then plumbed to a fitting installed on the intake manifold for a vacuum source. 

We need to take the machine out for real world testing in snow with the transmission up to full operating temperature to see if other changes are required. But at this point we plan to install this same modulator on both Putri-Zilla and the 1544.

As some additional information, Allison introduced the “soft shift” modulator in 1989 as a service part, and from what I understand was never factory installed in transmissions. Allison colors their modulators, and this one is purple (it’s almost as ugly as Putri-Zilla’s BSG color). Googling the 29501199 part number provides links to various aftermarket modulators identified with that part number (as well as others) and a description as a “white stripe adjustable modulator”. The genuine Allison 29501199 modulator is not adjustable. I think the white strip adjustable modulator came out in 1972, so other than the fact that it presumably fits, I can’t see it having the same functionality as the real Allison 29501199 soft shift modulator. Another potential issue is the adjustment. My understanding is the adjusting screw is accessed through the vacuum fitting on the end of the modulator. With so little room between the vacuum fitting and the frame... good luck with that.

We've also been knocking out some re assembly tasks on Putri-Zilla, such as installing the hydraulic tank, installing the push-pull cables for the heater/defroster control and the temperature control valve, and Scott has been developing a plan for mounting the transmission shifter cable on the transmission end. The system on Thundercat works well and is much simpler than the method Tucker used on the 1544. I think we’ll try and replicate what we did on Thundercat. It’s amazing, and sad, that though we performed that very same task a few years ago, neither of us remember exactly what we did. We need to get this machine done before senility overcomes us and we become blithering idiots…though some might think we’re there already!


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

Work continues on Putri-Zilla. Nothing really earth-shattering in terms of progress, more of finishing up various tasks to complete sections of the overall project. 

While The Infamous WBJ1 tries to cultivate an image of being “sweet” I can assure you he thoroughly enjoys poking the bear (me) at just about every opportunity. With that background, I had an idea I was very tempted to follow through on, but in a moment of weakness…didn’t. Here’s the story:

The engine in Putri-Zilla is a GM LS series engine and it has a “drive by wire” gas pedal as opposed to a “drive by cable” old-school mechanical system. The “drive by wire” setup uses an electronic gas pedal that sends signals from a module to the engines computer, which in turn provides input to the throttle body. Of course GM designed this pedal to work with the firewall and floor setup in the vehicles they installed the engine in. Naturally, those are different than what Tucker built in Putri-Zilla. When Scott and I positioned the gas pedal’s mounting pad on Putri-Zilla’s firewall, the pedal itself was restricted from its full motion. That meant we would need to fabricate a bracket. 

But…what if we made a bracket that allowed some, but not full pedal travel. I could picture The Infamous WBJ1…foot to the floor and getting passed by…everything. It was a pleasing (to me) image, but as much fun as that would be, we built a bracket that allows full pedal travel.  Yup…a missed opportunity to get a little poking in of my own. 

Here’s a pic of the bracket to space the gas pedal out from the firewall.  





And here's the pedal and bracket installed.





While the wiring has been just about complete for some time, we hadn’t connected the batteries, or installed the battery separator. So we made a list of what we needed and I went to a small company in SLC that carries a good selection of automotive related wire and supplies. Not a big list, and I was expecting it to cost $40, or so. Hah! I was stunned. Here’s the stuff. That’s 4 gauge wire, various copper lugs and some heat shrink tubing…almost $90 worth. 





I think future projects are going to cost significantly more money to complete, and BTW Tucker, Inc just raised their parts prices by 5% on April 1.

Here’s the vehicle battery and battery separator (to the left of the master cylinder). The vehicle battery is grounded to the engine, and there is another grounding cable from the engine to the frame. The center terminal on the battery separator is connected to the alternator. The left terminal is connected to the winch battery and the right terminal connects to both the vehicle battery and the vehicle wiring harness circuit breaker, just above the battery in the photo. 





We also installed the winch, and that involved another trip to get some 2 gauge wire to connect it to the winch battery. After installation we tested the winch, and it works great. 





Last night we installed new parking brake shoes along with the parking brake assembly, transmission output flange and parking brake drum. Scott took measurements and I can get a custom driveshaft made for the transmission to transfer case interface.

Scott has just about finished modifying the transmission mounted shift cable bracket, and then we’ll need to get a new cable made up after determining the required length. 

Some slow, but steady progress....


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

Lately we’ve been working on the fuel system, and in some ways the operative word is “compromise”. Of course that also brings about some frustration, but I suppose that’s part of the process.

Carbureted engines typically use an engine mounted fuel pump that delivers fuel to the carburetor at low pressure (mid single digit psi). GM LS engines require much higher fuel pressure (58 psi) and that means an electric pump. There are companies that you can send your gas tank to and they’ll install a somewhat customized in-tank electric fuel pump. That’s probably the best and “cleanest” installation, but it’s also very costly. The standard Tucker gas tank of the Putri-Zilla era is 49 gallons and it’s heavy. Shipping alone would be prohibitively expensive, and thus more cost-effective options had to be considered. With both Thundercat and Putri-Zilla, we installed Airtex brand electric in-line fuel pumps mounted to the Tucker frames with cushioned rubber clamps. The pumps aren't terribly expensive and they do the job, but they’re somewhat noisy and my biggest gripe is they are set up for 3/8” rubber fuel line. One can buy rubber fuel line made for fuel injection system pressure (and that’s what we did), but it just seems you’re then forced into plumbing the system in a less than optimal fashion. (I’m looking at alternative solutions for both machines.)

Thundercat’s gas tank is mounted centered side-to-side at the front of the bed and the plumbing, runs inside the frame rails. With P-Z, the tank is mounted outside the cab on the left side of the machine and running the fuel lines (in addition to the supply line, there is a return-to-tank line) leaves them more exposed. The Infamous WBJ1 wants a dual exhaust system running under the cab and that further complicates things. 

P-Z has a plated steel line from the tank to a water separating fuel filter, then rubber fuel injection hose to connect to the Airtex pump, then a bit more rubber fuel injection hose from the pump to a combination filter/pressure regulator, and from here plated steel line toward the engine, as well as a plated steel line back to the tank. It will work, and work well, but the rubber hose method just seems, for lack of a better phrase, "Bubba-like”, and I haven’t given up on finding a better solution.

We buy the plated steel line from NAPA and it’s available in different lengths. They come with flared ends with fittings, which we cut off. Unfortunately, the longest length they offer is 60” and our return-to-tank line distance was greater, so we had to do it in two lengths with an AN male flare union fitting. Scott and I use hydraulic system components in our fuel line plumbing, which means AN style fittings and 37º flares. Hydraulic system pressure is often 3,000 psi, so way more than adequate for fuel system pressure.

Everybody likes pics….

Easier to work on the fuel line plumbing if the Tucker is lifted on that side. 





The plumbing at the tank. Supply line is on the bottom and the return-to-tank line is on top. The tank fittings are so close together a top 90º elbow would have to have been spaced beyond the lower elbow so it could be threaded into the tank. It was less bulky (and cheaper for The Infamous WBJ1) to do it with bent steel line.





The lines running along, and secured to, frame members.





Where the supply and return-to-tank lines diverge.





A close up showing both the AN male flare union fitting and the Bubba-esq rubber fuel injection hose. (At least most of it is hidden from view.)





This is the fuel line running forward from the filter/pressure regulator.





The bent steel line connects to the engine with flexible braided stainless steel line with AN-6 fittings.

The fuel system is complete, for now. I hope to find a solution to the rubber hose issue, but we're moving on to other tasks necessary to get P-Z completed.


----------



## The Sweet Wbj1

Looks sooo good! Can't wait to hear how firing it up goes!


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

The Sweet Wbj1 said:


> Looks sooo good! Can't wait to hear how firing it up goes!


That could possibly happen before the end of the month. The engine's computer has been re-programmed and is in-transit back to us. We need to replace the transmission pan, install the dipstick and tube, and add transmission fluid, anti-freeze, etc. But we're pretty close.

However, in terms of reassembly there is a lot yet to do....


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

This update could be called “WBJ1 Hides an Easter Egg... Years in Advance”.

Mrs. Blackfoot would tell you I lack patience, and she’s right. If I decide to play a joke on someone, it’s a pretty short term thing, so WBJ1 deserves great credit for his patience while waiting for his "Easter Egg" to be found. Here’s the story:

Readers will recall WBJ1 sent us a “mystery engine” that turned out to be a GM L94 LS series engine, though to this day we don’t know what year it is, or what it was originally installed in. I know they were used in the Cadillac Escalade, so I’m going with that as the original vehicle.

The engine as delivered.





We really haven’t messed with the engine at all. We did have to replace some damaged coil packs, and we replaced the spark plugs. The oil filter was dented and we replaced that and we drained the engine oil. We added exhaust manifolds, as there were none with the engine. But other than installing a new harmonic balancer and some minor front of the engine modifications it’s basically as we received it. Part of the process of getting P-Z ready to start involved adding anti-freeze, transmission fluid, and of course engine oil. We started by adding five quarts of full synthetic oil and checked the dipstick. Nothing... bone dry. We added more oil. Still nothing... and still bone dry.

Hmmmm? And especially with a new oil filter we should see oil on the dipstick. Where is this oil going? There’s no puddle of oil on the floor, so there’s no massive leak. But something is amiss…

I look at the dipstick and there is a stamped number on it. Here’s a pic of that number.





As the saying goes, “Google is your friend”, so I Googled “GM 12577660” and presto, a GM parts website comes up and provided this information:





WBJ1 sent us an engine with a shorter dipstick from a completely different engine family! (At least it was shorter and not longer.) 

“Sweet” WBJ1?  I don’t think so...

I've ordered a dipstick for a 2009 Escalade with a 6.2L engine. I THINK that will be correct, and the Easter Egg episode will be over. 

We did try and start the engine and perhaps not unexpectedly, there are issues. As a late model engine, it has an OBD II port and the check engine light is on. Reading the codes shows oxygen sensor issues, which is to be expected because none are presently installed, and there are codes relating to the throttle pedal position sensor circuit e voltage being low. Basically the gas pedal assembly isn’t working, so depressing the pedal does nothing. It did start, sort-of. It will run for 5-10 seconds but only on two or three cylinders. At this point we think the fuel injectors are likely clogged as they sat for years and years and the fuel in the system dried up and left deposits. 

We've removed the fuel rail and the fuel injectors and cleaned them as best we could. We reinstalled them in the fuel rail and filled the fuel rail with SeaFoam; hoping that will free up the injectors.The fuel rail and injectors are soaking for a few days.  New fuel injector O-rings are on order as well as a new throttle pedal position sensor, which is basically the complete pedal assembly. I say this very rarely, but I was pleasantly surprised how reasonably priced it was..  

More slow progress, but still moving in the right direction and we’re a little closer to completion...


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## Pontoon Princess

tuckillac ? tuckalade ? escatucker ? caducker ? cadzilla ? BSGzilla ? .....

chadster is short a dipstick for sure...lol


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## The Sweet Wbj1

THE Legendary Blackfoot Tucker gives me too much credit!! I WISH I had been smart enough to hide Easter eggs! Mine would be really good. Like when he went to unwrap it it could have exploded army green paint all over him! Now that would have made for a good pic!


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## Blackfoot Tucker

Ah Hah... Busted. No one who is truly "sweet" would send such a device. Maybe I should refer to you as "The Devious and Infamous WBJ1"?


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## The Sweet Wbj1

Blackfoot Tucker said:


> Ah Hah... Busted. No one who is truly "sweet" would send such a device. Maybe I should refer to you as "The Devious and Infamous WBJ1"?


But I did NOT send the device!! Therefore proven SWEET!!


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

While the tube bending mode was still fresh in our minds we decided to tackle the new brake lines. These are also plated steel lines from NAPA, and they come with pre-flared ends and fittings. The flare style is a 45º double flare and requires a different flaring tool. Also, just like with the fuel lines, we needed more than one length of tube and used a brass union fitting to join the two sections. We attach the lines to the frame with small stainless steel clips that use a threaded socket button head stainless steel screw. It requires drilling the frame and tapping the hole. It’s a bit stressful as the tap size is 10-32, which is quite small; and hence easily broken. Fortunately, we were able to get all the holes drilled and tapped without incident!

But then we had some issues. We had a leak at the union fitting and the new brake fluid coming out of the leak was dirty and cloudy. We debated about installing a new master cylinder, and ultimately decided to do so. After installing that and fixing the leaking union…we found the brake line connection at the caliper leaking. ARRGGH…we’ll deal with that next week.

The new O-rings and throttle pedal arrived and we had high hopes those would cure the engine issues. The new throttle pedal solved the P2127 code, but despite soaking in SeaFoam for several days, the fuel injectors just aren’t working properly. The engine ran ever-so-slightly better - but still very poorly. To confirm the diagnosis we removed the air filter and I manned the ignition key while Scott sprayed some starting ether into the air intake. The engine ran fine…. a new set of OEM injectors are enroute to Utah.


One thing we decided to upgrade on P-Z were the bolts that secure both the transfer case and the brake caliper bracket to the frame. The transfer case is mounted at an angle, and there are four 1/2”-13 bolts on each side. The caliper bracket is also mounted with four 1/2”-13 bolts. Tucker uses hex head bolts, and due to the angled transfer case mounting, there isn’t sufficient room to place a socket over two of the transfer case mounting bolts on each side. That means one must use an open-end wrench, which doesn’t fit fully over the bolts, and the wrench swing is limited. Tucker uses some pieces of light gauge sheet metal behind the bolts, and one bends the corners to match the hex angle on the bolts to prevent them from loosening. 

Our solution is to use drilled-head stainless steel socket head cap screws and aircraft safety wire to prevent the bolts from loosening. We think this methodology has better functionality and looks better. I will say that aviation maintenance technicians who regularly work with safety wire do it quickly and beautifully. Unfortunately, my efforts are neither fast nor beautiful. It’s more like mediocre and slow, to be honest. (I think we’ll go back and retroactively do this on Thundercat. It won’t take long, but it will be a way of me poking The Gorilla (Scott), and that alone will be worth it. As WBJ1 would say "MUAHAHAHA!”) 





In an earlier post I discussed transmission pans, and our plan had been to install an Allison shallow pan on P-Z, but the cost of a bent steel tube (no longer available from Allison) was beyond outrageous. I had forgotten that when we fabricated the removable pusher frame for the blade, we had built it to fit around the deep transmission pan. 

I did find a more reasonably priced bent tube on ebay. (85% less than the price from Weller Truck Parts!) We installed it along with a factory Allison shallow pan on Thundercat. That freed up the pan we (Scott) had cut down from a deep pan, which we could now use on P-Z. It's deep in front and doesn’t require the shallow pan tube as does the factory shallow pan. On Thundercat you can’t remove the transmission pan easily. At a minimum you must unbolt the front driveshaft, and even then it’s a bit tricky to maneuver the pan around the welded-on pusher frame to remove it. A factory shallow pan makes it a lot easier. Here’s a pic of the modified pan installed on P-Z. 

While it’s true the deep pan does fit, the modified pan can be removed more easily. It’s also true one could unbolt the pusher frame for completely unfettered access to the pan, but that's easier said than done. Yes, it’s bolt-on, but it’s an unwieldy shape, somewhat heavy, and totally unbalanced. Trust me; the modified pan is the way to go.





While I was underneath P-Z I took a photo of the fuel filter/pressure regulator I've mentioned in previous posts. (The piece of split loom hanging down with the wire sticking out is for the yet-to-be-installed parking brake lever’s light switch.)





We also got a new parking brake cable and a new push-pull shifter cable made for us in SLC. The guy who makes these at a company called Six States, John Williams, does a beautiful job. They aren’t cheap, but the quality is excellent, and he’s super easy to work with. In any project you come across some businesses or individuals who are a pleasure to deal with. John is very definitely at the top of that list.


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## Pontoon Princess

BSG = biden shit green


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## The Sweet Wbj1

Pontoon Princess said:


> BSG = biden shit green


That's not very nice!


----------



## Blackfoot Tucker

The new fuel injectors arrived and we swapped them out painlessly. We started the engine and it fired up... and died a few seconds later. Multiple start attempts yielded the same results. I did some Internet research as to possible causes, but decided before I called the fellow who reprogrammed the computer, let’s clear the OBDII codes and try again. So we did that, added more gas to the tank and Scott connected an old air conditioning manifold and gauge setup to the Schraeder valve on the fuel rail to measure the fuel pressure. Tried starting the engine... and it stayed running. The fuel pressure was fine.

If you are (understandably) wondering about the air conditioning manifold setup, all I can say is Scott is a very clever guy - and as the saying goes "necessity is the mother of invention”. An air conditioning system has a low pressure side and a high pressure side. In an automotive setup, the low pressure side has a port with a Schraeder valve that one connects their gauges to. So a completely different system than a fuel rail, but the same connection methodology. I never would have thought of using ac gauges…NEVER. But Scott? You bet. 

But of course solving one issue has a way of segueing into another. With the engine running, one would naturally expect that the tachometer would display engine RPM. Except that wasn’t the case. Universal type tachometers normally come with a selector switch for the number of cylinders; 4, 6, or 8, and one selects the correct one based on their installation. Easy, right? Well, not so fast. The engine in P-Z is a GM LS series 8 cylinder engine, so you’d think you’d select the 8 cylinder configuration. But NO. The tachometer depends on pulses per revolution and one needs to select the 4 cylinder setup, which supposedly provides the correct number of pulses per revolution. But our tach wasn’t showing anything…. 

More Internet research showed this is a common problem on LS engine swaps when trying to use an analog tachometer. In layman’s terms, the engines computer sends a signal to the tachometer, but the signal strength is too weak for the tachometer to read properly. One needs to boost that signal strength. Not counting the tachometer’s lighting circuitry, there are three wires connecting to the tachometer, a ground wire, a 12 volt power wire and the signal wire, in our case from the computer (in a non computer-controlled engine the signal comes from the ignition coil). The solution to our non-functioning tachometer is to tap into the 12 volt power wire, and run a jumper wire from that with a 1/4 watt, 1,000 ohm resistor spliced into it, and connect that to the signal wire. The added power makes the tachometer function properly. Scott added some “piggyback style” spade connectors to the terminals on the tachometer, and installed the resistor between them. So after adding the resistor and starting the engine... the tach is showing idle at 250 rpm. Well that’s no good….

When we decided to install all new gauges on P-Z, we went with VDO Vision Black series gauges. VDO uses what are called DIP switches to select the cylinder configuration. There are three very small switches and they have two positions each which are positioned differently based on the number of cylinders. Still seems relatively simple, right?  Well, I found this information on, of all places (the SnowTrac mafia will love this) a VW forum, but apparently on some VDO tachometers the switches are installed upside down by the factory. Of course accessing these tiny switches can’t be done while laying on your back under the dash and working overhead, so the tach gets removed for any changes and Scott went through this multiple times in getting the DIP switch settings correct for P-Z. It's more than fair to say it was a PITA.

Here’s a pic of the back side of the tachometer with the lights removed. You can see Scott has marked the wire connections and added the resistor. The DIP switches are in the black rectangle on the upper left of the tachometer. 






I’m a firm believer in the Mark Twain quote “Better to keep your mouth shut and let people think you’re a fool, rather than open it and remove all doubt”. But I also find it disingenuous when people never seem to make a mistake, and the example I use is Norm Abram on the PBS show The New Yankee Workshop. Super talented guy, but he never screws up? Yeah, sure…. So what follows is a tale of buffoonery on my part.

When I bought this Tucker, it had a second battery and a starter solenoid to separate the batteries. The installation was very poorly executed (Tucker factory?) and it was something that we were going to remove and re-do properly before we sold the machine. At the time, the engine and alternator were the stock Chrysler components. I bought a new battery isolator from Amazon knowing we’d need it later on in the machine’s refurbishment process. 

Now fast forward about four years and we had installed a GM LS series engine. Those engines have a different electrical system with the voltage regulator built into the alternator as compared to the stock Chrysler system. When we were reassembling P-Z I remembered the brand new battery isolator sitting patiently in a box, and Scott and I installed it without a second thought. We thought all was good, and kept going with other reassembly tasks. The tachometer DIP switch escapade I described above required starting the engine to compare tachometer readings with engine RPM several times. But at one point the battery didn’t have enough power to start the engine. Huh? We then determined the alternator was not charging the battery. Of course the usual “If it’s not one thing, it’s another” feelings were shared, and we tried to figure out what was wrong. The diagnostic process eventually suggested the battery isolator may be the problem…and it took quite a while, but I remembered that I had originally bought the battery isolator for a non-GM charging system. The correct isolators have a fourth connection on the isolator for a wire from the ignition switch. So a new battery isolator is on the way and we’ll have to add that wire to make it work properly. I feel like Homer Simpson in one of his "Doh moments"….  

Here’s a pic of the correct style isolator. Note the fourth (smaller) connection pole for the wire from the ignition switch.





We also had tp plumb the vacuum line from the engine to the newly installed Allison soft shift modulator. Yup, more plated steel brake line from NAPA and two rubber elbows. Fortunately we were able to make the line using one 60” length of 1/4” brake line. The time is spent figuring out the angles and distances and trial fits to ensure the line looks good and fits properly. Once the first one is made, it would be quick work to make duplicates, but this is a one and done project. 

Here’s a pic of the line to the vacuum modulator. It’s just behind the alternator, but you can see it connecting to the rubber 90º elbow and then bending down and then bent again to parallel the fuel rail enroute to the modulator on the transmission.





Among other things we did: 

- Scott welded a threaded bung into the air intake's aluminum tube for a hose connection to the right cylinder head’s PCV system. 

- We installed a piece of carpet on the shelf between the windshield and the dash panel, along with the defroster ducts and new defroster hose.

- We added ground wires to the frame for both front and rear E-Lockers and completed their respective wiring with Weatherpack connectors.

Bottom line: we checked off several more tasks on the road to project completion.


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## sno-drifter

I marvel at the expertise, knowledge, and dedication put into your builds. Way above my skill set. I'm resolved to DI diesels with Zero electronics. If it works for me, why change. We had a situation this winter when one machine lost battery power due to a broken wire, not found until days later. We pulled the battery from the DID, left it run while exchanging batteries. Mechanical shut off on DID, so no power required. By the time we got back the low battery was all charged up. I guess we could have towed the DID cat to get both going if it had a 12V shut off solenoid. (Mechanical transmission). Simple cat for simple mind.


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## The Sweet Wbj1

sno-drifter said:


> I marvel at the expertise, knowledge, and dedication put into your builds. Way above my skill set.


Same here, Sno-Drifter!


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## Snowy Rivers

Just a little note.

The Allen cap screws with the safety wire is a great looking job.....
Another good way to keep fasteners from coming loose.....BLUE LOCTITE
Easy to remove....but will not shake loose on it's own.

Just wash out the internal threads in the gearbox or ??? and the bolt threads with Red label BRAKEKLEEN ...Blow dry and then add a bit of the Blue Loctite to the bolt thread....Tighten and good to go.

DO NOT USE RED LOCTITE.......That stuff requires a bunch of heat to get it to loosen up.....Many small fasteners will break off before the loctite give up...


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## Snowy Rivers

sno-drifter said:


> I marvel at the expertise, knowledge, and dedication put into your builds. Way above my skill set. I'm resolved to DI diesels with Zero electronics. If it works for me, why change. We had a situation this winter when one machine lost battery power due to a broken wire, not found until days later. We pulled the battery from the DID, left it run while exchanging batteries. Mechanical shut off on DID, so no power required. By the time we got back the low battery was all charged up. I guess we could have towed the DID cat to get both going if it had a 12V shut off solenoid. (Mechanical transmission). Simple cat for simple mind.


I acknowledge that the electronics can do so many cool things and do them well.....But I also know that the micro electronic magic boxes can fail and leave the rig DEAD.

The idea of a simple solution is not at all a bad idea ....especially when heading into the back country where AAA is not available to come help.

I thought about going with a fuel injection on my project.....Then decided that a good old simple carburetor was pretty bullet proof out in the bush.....

The old "Points and condenser" ignition are a tad too archaic for even my old school disposition.....The GM HEI is pretty bomb proof and can be fixed on the trail with minimal bother and only requires carrying a module and a spare distributor cap/coil assembly.

For long outback trips into the back country.....Having a complete distributor in the tool box would certainly not be a bad thing.

We can't carry enough parts to rebuild the cat out on the trail, but the vulnerable little electronics can fail and leave ya dead.

A mechanically injected diesel is a sweet deal.....In a pinch even the 12 volt fuel solenoid can be mickymoused to activate it.

Certainly nothing wrong with simple......

I digress ....


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## Blackfoot Tucker

Thanks for all the kind words. I sincerely appreciate it, and I pass them along to Scott, which brings a smile to his face. The reality is, and PP would agree, Scott and I are just a couple of knuckleheads who enjoy vehicular projects.

For deep backcountry usage, certainly simplicity has value when things go awry. And the more technologically complex the apparatus, the more difficult it may be to repair. 

A case in point: 

Last fall I had a conversation with a former neighbor of WBJ1’s who was potentially interested in buying the 1544. He shortly thereafter spent a whole lot more money and bought a used PistenBully Scout. A few weeks ago that neighbor notified the other land owners in that off-the-grid neighborhood the Pisten Bully had broken down and was partially blocking the access road. They thought it had an electrical problem…. 

If you can’t fix it yourself, or with a buddy, I’m not sure who you’d call. I think the closest PB dealership may be Peterson Equipment in Logan, UT. Probably at least a nine hour drive, and they’d have to bring some type of machine to transport the mechanic, along with tools, parts, etc. to get to the broken PB. If they needed more parts they would presumably have them overnighted at great expense. I think PB uses engines from different manufacturers in their different snowcat models and IIRC the Scout has a John Deere engine. If the problem with the disabled Scout is engine related, perhaps the much closer John Deere dealership could help? 

Scott and I are big fans of fuel injection. While it’s true there are aftermarket fuel injection systems made for retrofitting older engines, we prefer a complete factory built system. The LS series GM engines came out in 1998 and they have been installed in many different GM vehicles, and both the engines and fuel injection systems have been refined along the way. Several companies make conversion wiring harnesses that supposedly require only a four wire hookup to integrate the engine into a vehicle. Of course the computer must be reprogrammed to eliminate the VATS (Vehicle Anti Theft System) and usually the second set of oxygen sensors. One can also discuss with the programmer any other specific changes you want. But all of these things have been done by others, and with the Internet, there is a lot of information out there - good and bad.

Pretty much by definition a carburetor is optimized for one elevation, and atmospheric conditions can effect the carburetor’s performance as well. But a modern computerized engine continuously monitors multiple sensors and makes adjustments to optimize engine performance. The conversion harnesses come with an OBDII port so one can plug in a simple scan tool to read the trouble codes and then one can address the issues. Yes, that may require a trip to an auto parts store - where it’s likely they’ll have the parts in stock. I do think modern engines are incredibly reliable and they have better performance, economy and longevity than their older carburetor equipped ancestors. 
When I bought the Tucker now known as Putri-Zilla, it had the stock Chrysler 318 Industrial engine, and it didn't run well. We gave it a tune up and...it didn't run well. Diving in deeper, we found two bent push rods and two damaged/broken rocker arms. A call to our friendly Dodge Dealer's part department (a contradiction in terms) and the parts guy said his books didn't go back that far and he probably couldn't get new rocker arms anyway. Wow! I'll bet any GM dealership could get you whatever part you wanted for an L94 engine!

Others will probably disagree, but we think the sweet spot for a snowcat powertrain is using a modern computer-controlled engine along with a non-computerized transmission. That said, if you want a Diesel engine instead, there is a compelling case for a simple, mechanically injected engine without the complexity of the electronics.  

Snowy, I too think Loctite makes some great products, and their blue thread locker would very likely be more than adequate. Most of my working life has revolved around aviation and safety wire is the accepted standard for fastener retention. As I said a few posts above, the people who do it frequently do a beautiful job, and make it look easy. It’s a skill I don’t have, but want to, and doing it on P-Z was an opportunity to get some practice.


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## YamaDooPolCat

Any update on how the transplant is going?


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## Blackfoot Tucker

YamaDooPolCat said:


> Any update on how the transplant is going?


Good question!

We work on snowcat and other projects after-hours at Scott’s shop. This past summer he was absolutely inundated with work at his business and several jobs were large in scope, had deadlines, and he was behind… bigly. He was working nights, Saturdays and sometimes Sundays to complete these jobs. All of our projects were put on hold. Snowzilla hasn’t been touched since a custom exhaust system was installed in July (which turned out very well, BTW).

Scott’s crunch ended very recently, and we just started making a change to TUG’s (DMC 1450) electrical system. The stock setup was a fuse block with old-school automotive cylindrical glass fuses. Those fuses can be hard to find, and the amperage rating can be extremely difficult to read. We’re in the process of changing the fuse block to one that uses more modern blade-style fuses. We’re also replacing the electric fan with a mechanical fan and also fabricating a new fan shroud. Then we'll make sure everything works properly before listing it for sale.

The next phase of Snowzilla will be installing all new hydraulic hoses for the steering system and six-way blade.

Sadly, The Infamous WBJ1 no longer has his off the grid cabin in Colorado, so there is not a pressing need to complete it.


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## Cidertom

All that green  pain t to waste.


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## Pontoon Princess

Cidertom said:


> All that green  pain t to waste.


sadly, the green paint lives forever, and so do the green jokes...


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## YamaDooPolCat

Your project is very inspiring, so I'm thinking I should do that.
Is your back up camera installed? I'm interested in what size of view screen you used and where you mounted it?
Also, what did you use to clean the glue off the panels when you pulled off the factory interior?


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## YamaDooPolCat

".... We considered that over-revving the engine may have caused the damage, but decided against that. Here's why:

Chrysler Industrial engines were used in numerous applications, one fairly common one would be to power an irrigation pump in a location with no electricity nearby. In that installation the engine would be left unattended and running at a fairly high, constant RPM for fairly long periods. If the pump broke, or there was some other type of malfunction, it's possible the load would be removed from the engine, and with lots of throttle and no load, the engine would over-rev and damage/destroy itself. To preclude that Chrysler equipped their industrial engines (at least the 318s I've seen) with King Seely brand velocity governors installed under the carburetor. 

This engine had the governor installed when I bought it. It's certainly possible someone removed it and then put it back, but we thought that somewhat unlikely..."

What is a velocity governor? I had the carb off the 318 in my Tucker and noticed this odd looking bottom in the intake. Is this the velocity governor part?


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## Blackfoot Tucker

Looking at the length of your carburetor mounting studs, I'd say a previous owner removed the governor. They are about 1 1/2" tall and longer studs are required.

I don't have a good photo of a velocity governor, but here's a link to one on ebay: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-2-b...=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

That one looks pretty much identical to the ones installed on Tuckers I've bought.

The backup camera display is mounted roughly where an interior rear view mirror would be mounted, Scott made a bracket that attaches to the Tucker and the display attaches to that. The buttons are upside down but the display presentation is right side up. I’d say it’s about a 6” diagonal size. The Infamous WBJ1 bought it and had it shipped to us. He could probably provide more information.





As far as removing the carpeting from the machine, we just pulled it off, and helped the process with a wide putty knife. Where there was carpet/glue residue we used a Fein oscillating multimaster tool with a scraper blade. That worked pretty well. Everything then went to the sandblaster and that process cleaned off anything else.

It’s interesting to see your six-way valve setup, and the way Tucker plumbed the hydraulic lines as compared to the way they did it a few years later. In 1980 the valve was moved  back several inches and the hydraulic hoses run through a big oblong hole more or less directly underneath where the lines connect with the valve on the right side. Then Tucker globbed in a bunch of goo to sort-of seal up some of the excess size of the hole. Messy? Absolutely. Professional? Absolutely not. 

This isn’t a great pic, but hopefully you’ll get the idea.





For our Thundercat project we just couldn’t follow Tucker’s mediocre-at-best approach. We ditched the flexible hydraulic hoses and custom bent all new rigid hydraulic lines for the six-way valve (and most everything else). The new floor we made has rubber grommets sealing the hydraulic lines, and then we built an enclosure for the valve that’s lined with sound deadening mat. I don’t necessarily suggest that route - as it took an incredible amount of time. But for two certifiable Knuckleheads, it seemed like a good idea….


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## YamaDooPolCat

I never much like the 90 degree fittings going into the valve block. They seem to be either too tight when cranking them in, or too loose. I'm going to see about straight nipples into the body and then 90 degree hose ends with the nut.  That way everything can get the same snug, and maybe less oil sweating out of the valve body. But lots to do before then!

By the way, did your Allison install have side mounts to the frame, or did you have to install engine side mounts? The 727 doesn't have side mounts, so I'm going to have to arrest the torque with the engine mounts somehow.


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## Blackfoot Tucker

Both Allison AT545s we’ve installed were bought used and came with Allison to GM adapter housings and cast side mounts that bolt to the transmission. We cut off the side mounts Tucker welded to the frame, cleaned them up a bit, and re welded them to the frame in a slightly different location for our installation.

Here’s a pic of the Allison AT545 mounted.





For the L94 engine we used the GM factory motor mounts with rubber isolators and Scott fabricated short towers that were welded to the Tucker frame and aligned with the GM mounts. 

A pic of the factory motor mounts. You can also see the cast adapter housing (painted black) between the engine and transmission and the cast side mounts (also painted black) that bolt to the transmission with two bolts.





Lastly, a pic of the towers Scott made in position and before being welded to the Tucker frame.


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## YamaDooPolCat

Nice work!


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