# Wife wants another greenhouse!



## muleman RIP

Crazy woman wants another one slightly larger than the first one. If not for the wind and the plastic not lasting more than 3-4 years I would just do a tube frame one. I need to do some heat load calculations and see if my boiler is big enough to run another one. If she was happy with 60 degrees it would help a lot. I am leaning toward doing all the seed starting in the first greenhouse and then transferring the plants to the second one to finish them. I may try a double plastic flat ceiling in the first one where I would have a 4" air trap to keep the heat down lower. It takes a lot of btus to heat with all that glass and plastic.


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## nixon

muleman said:


> Crazy woman wants another one slightly larger than the first one. If not for the wind and the plastic not lasting more than 3-4 years I would just do a tube frame one. I need to do some heat load calculations and see if my boiler is big enough to run another one. If she was happy with 60 degrees it would help a lot. I am leaning toward doing all the seed starting in the first greenhouse and then transferring the plants to the second one to finish them. I may try a double plastic flat ceiling in the first one where I would have a 4" air trap to keep the heat down lower. It takes a lot of btus to heat with all that glass and plastic.



Resistance if futile ! Just figure out how to do it .


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## muleman RIP

Well as John said I give up and start gathering stuff up to do another one. First priority is a hydrant so I ended up tunneling under the first one to hook on a new hydrant. Just as I finished hooking up the pipe a thunderstorm came rolling in and put an end to that for a day or so. We got a bunch of rain over about a 6 hour period. I went down to a buddy of mine and hooked in his hot water heat on an addition he built. He hooked me up with a complete insulated sliding glass door as well as 2 panels from another one and a good double hung window. I bought a door for $2 at a yard sale last week and my buddy is looking for an exterior door as well. He has 26' of the insulated Pex pipe for me so that will help keep the cost down a bit. I am going to pick up the posts later and try to get them in this week as well as a top band and sills. Found 2 cast iron radiators but the Amish kids are all busy getting corn in so I am still looking for someone to take the 80 mile drive to get them. If not I will have to use baseboard coils and Pex for heat.


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## Cowboy

Looks like your off to a good start , looking forward to the progress pics


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## Erik

I've helped people build greenhouses out of non-sliding doors from salvage yards before - occasionally you find them pretty cheap and they cover a lot of area.
how big a greenhouse is she wanting this time?


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## Melensdad

Erik said:


> . . . how big a greenhouse is she wanting this time?


My guess is that she wants is about 6' longer and 4' wider than he actually builds it


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## muleman RIP

Erik said:


> I've helped people build greenhouses out of non-sliding doors from salvage yards before - occasionally you find them pretty cheap and they cover a lot of area.
> how big a greenhouse is she wanting this time?



Well tomorrow I will run up to the habitat for humanity sale barn as she spied another slider and some windows there today. As for how big, it will be whatever size I make it! The bigger it gets the harder it is to heat. Since we live on top of the hill and get a lot of wind it will be 12X20 and might have a lower pitch roof with 2X6 rafters so I can use the same size roof panels. Got to do some figuring yet. First I need to gather the doors and windows cheap, then build around them.


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## snow dog

Building greenhouse while naked add thrill to life  !!!


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## muleman RIP

Well I got the hydrant and one post in and backfilled. This Northeaster is still swirling rain on us so I unloaded the lumber off the truck and am going to pick up the radiators tomorrow morning. Found another door in my BIL's barn that will work so just need a few more windows. I will get the posts in and top plate on while I check around for windows. I can get the stone and pex in before I do the walls and roof and be that far ahead of the weather.


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## snow dog

I get tired just reading your posts, No grass grows under your feet


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## muleman RIP

Got things leveled up and pushed the slab wood pile back so I have room to dig the rest of the post holes. Got these radiators today. They will go in the barn till i have the pex and stone in place. They are so heavy I will move them in with the skid steer or backhoe before we build the side walls. Should have enough wood to heat them up!


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## snow dog

Do you buy wood ? Does the old lady help split and stack ?


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## muleman RIP

I buy the slab wood from the Amish sawmills that adjoin my farm. $30 for a full dump truck load. That pile is about 7 of my dump truck loads. I just drive it down and park it under the conveyor and retrieve it when it is full. Hard to beat hardwood slabs, mostly oak,cherry and maple. The split wood is from my own woods. We have alot of ash that is dying from the borer that is spreading. Our whole area is quarantined for timber sales of ash wood so I might as well burn it.


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## Adillo303

I thought the Amish cannot run machines.


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## muleman RIP

Adillo303 said:


> I thought the Amish cannot run machines.



They run anything you or I run but not with electric motors. They have more friggin gas engines than you can ever imagine. A good sawmill will have at least 2 or 3 diesel engines running a saw, edger, planer and a chop saw and conveyor. My neighbor's is automated with trip dogs for a lot of the operations. They manually roll the logs down to the saw and cut the boards. Then they throw them on the edger and it rips the width and a conveyor takes the board and strips to another operator who stacks the boards and throws the strips onto another conveyor that cuts them to length and drops them on another conveyor that takes the pieces out to my truck or a dump pile. Every machine has a blower to collect the sawdust and take it out overhead to a big shed (30X30) where it is piled till the pellet factory hauls it away. They have more shafts and bearing running belts in all directions. Their machine shops are the same way.


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## snow dog

way to go, everyone should be so lucky


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## Adillo303

That must be pretty amazing to see. Thank you for the explanation.


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## snow dog

Do you burn pellets too ?


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## muleman RIP

No pellets for me. My boiler would eat 2 bags at a shot. Got the rest of the posts in and leveled up the site yesterday. Stone is piled and ready to spread then put the treated bottom band boards on. Then it will be time for insulation and pex with more stone.


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## snow dog

Muley,
Is that you in the blue shirt ?


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## muleman RIP

snow dog said:


> Muley,
> Is that you in the blue shirt ?


HUH?


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## snow dog

Thats not what I expected,,, Sure is or No it's my better looking bro. Maybe it's the mrs.


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## pirate_girl

muleman said:


> HUH?


I thought it was you too Bill, standing in a ditch with suspenders on.
Looks like you've got a miners hat on too..
Or... maybe I need to clean my specs


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## Cowboy

pirate_girl said:


> I thought it was you too Bill, standing in a ditch with suspenders on.
> Looks like you've got a miners hat on too..
> Or... maybe I need to clean my specs


   DAMN Pg , good eyes  , I hadta go back & look at every pic a dozen times before I could even see what you were talking about in the last pic , it does appear to look like what you described , but I was assuming Bill was taking the pics . Maybe a ghost ?


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## muleman RIP

I think you all are doing better drugs than me! the only thing in the ditch is a shadow of the backhoe bucket!


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## Cowboy

muleman said:


> I think you all are doing better drugs than me! the only thing in the ditch is a shadow of the backhoe bucket!


 In the last pic Bill , left of the pile of gravel back by the white pipe laying on the ground , It damn sure looks like what PG described but I dont think it is ?


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## snow dog

who's in the blue shirt ????????


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## bczoom

Ummm, as best I can tell, that's a fuel tank.
Looking at the shape, I can tell where it could be confused for being Bill.


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## pirate_girl

Fuel tank!
Oh I see it now..
Or a rock...


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## snow dog

Oh yes, fuel tank for farts,,

Somebody is smoking bad dope !


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## pirate_girl

snow dog said:


> Oh yes, fuel tank for farts,,
> 
> Somebody is smoking bad dope !




My turn...


muleman said:


> HUH?


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## Cowboy

pirate_girl said:


> Fuel tank!
> Oh I see it now..
> Or a rock...
> View attachment 48725


 I,m sticking to ghost


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## snow dog

Yep


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## muleman RIP

That is a 300 gallon skid tank with a Gas Boy hand pump! If it was not blowing so hard I would have the wife take a pic of me standing next to it. I just got back with a load of windows from the habitat place and now she wants 2 more!


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## snow dog

Sorry Mr Muleman, The tank sort of looked like a bad view of someone. What does the Mrs. want 2 more of ???????


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## muleman RIP

She wanted more windows but I just got offered 3 more patio door sections from a buddy who works at a home maufacturer. He is bringing me up a section of the good insulated pex pipe tomorrow morning on their way to fishing up on lake Ontario. I will be putting stone on the site and need the pipe in so I can start on the sills and get it tamped down.


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## snow dog

you pumping hot water thru the pex pipe ?


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## muleman RIP

Sorry I have not got back to this thread for a while. Yes I pump hot water from the wood boiler through the pex pipe. I did get the underground pipe and wiring installed in late November during hunting season. I got the bottom boards and the first layer of stone put down but then it froze solid and it got put on hold. Over New Years it warmed up enough to put down a couple layers of felt paper and some left over shingles followed by a layer of foil faced duct wrap. Then the concrete wire for a grid to tie the pex tubing to. Wife and i ran the tubing on New Years day and got a bunch of the stone put over it. The stone pile was froze so hard I had to use the backhoe to claw it loose and smash the chunks up. It is not pretty yet but once I put the heat to it and thaw it out we will be able to rake it out nicer. Today I built the trusses in the barn and tomorrow the Amish boys are coming to help set them and hopefully get the roof on. Then we will work on the walls and windows. Pics tomorrow if we have time.


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## muleman RIP

We got working on it today despite getting 3-4 inches of snow while we did it. The trusses and purlons are all set and we have the treated base lumber on for the walls to set on. The Amish have a wedding to go to tomorrow and weather looks shitty for Friday so we will get back at it when we can. Every little bit gets us closer to having more space for plants.


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## Cowboy

Looks like a good days work  . Dont know if I missed it elsewhere but it looks to be sitting on a pad of sorts . Leveled dirt , gravel or otherwise ?


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## muleman RIP

I raised the elevation because of the groundwater that likes to flow around there. Built it up with crushed stone about 5 inches above the natural slope and leveled it. That way snowmelt and rain won't draw the heat in the floor away from it. I want to keep the plants warm not watch the heat run down the yard and road.


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## thcri RIP

Footings?


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## muleman RIP

Treated 4X6 posts dug down to bed rock.


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## snow dog

muleman said:


> Treated 4X6 posts dug down to bed rock.


 
How far down ? ???


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## Cowboy

muleman said:


> I raised the elevation because of the groundwater that likes to flow around there. Built it up with crushed stone about 5 inches above the natural slope and leveled it. That way snowmelt and rain won't draw the heat in the floor away from it. I want to keep the plants warm not watch the heat run down the yard and road.


 

  Thanks thats what I kind of thought . looks good so far .


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## pirate_girl

Nice.
How's your shoulder feeling today after all that work?


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## muleman RIP

snow dog said:


> How far down ? ???


About 3 1/2 ft.  there is a layer of rock left by the glaciers and it is a bitch to get through.


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## snow dog

You do very nice work, Muley. I am impressed


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## muleman RIP

pirate_girl said:


> Nice.
> How's your shoulder feeling today after all that work?



Not too bad. The body takes a while to get used to working up over your head. Feel better than I did after wiring new lights in the wife's sewing area the other day.


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## pirate_girl

muleman said:


> Not too bad. The body takes a while to get used to working up over your head. Feel better than I did after wiring new lights in the wife's sewing area the other day.


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## muleman RIP

Finally got a break in the cold weather. Shoveled the snow off the pad and walls yesterday. We got rained out this morning but the afternoon turned out pretty nice. The Amish boys and I got all the roof panels on this afternoon and laid out the end wall before they had to be back to milk cows. Tomorrow we can at least work under the roof as they are calling for more showers and possibly sleet later in the day. I hope to have the pex heating this weekend. Doubt we will have all the walls closed in but we are going to give it a shot.


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## Lia

Awesome planning and execution... I never realized how so much effort and design goes into building a simple greenhouse before. You are amazing! 

I have a sewing room also, and the correct lighting is of paramount importance to one. 

keep the pics coming... it is so interesting to see it going up thro each stage.


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## muleman RIP

As requested a few more pics of the progress.


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## muleman RIP

Weather is going to give us a fit for a while. Depending on how bad the snow is we may be able to work this week on getting the other side and end built in. We had a causality of one sliding panel so plans may get adjusted or else I have to make a long drive in the morning for some more panels. Here are some of the plants that are supposed to already be in the new one. There are not too many strawberries cause they seem to end up in my cereal bowl.


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## BigAl RIP

Really nice work Bill ! I will not be able to even think about a green house for another 4 months . Just too much snow and then mud till the end of May .


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## muleman RIP

That is why I get done what I can when I can. It is nice to work with a clean stone base under you. We put stall mats down over the mud from the trenches for heat and electric so we were not tracking it over the stone. I managed to scrape one more bucket full with the skid steer off the stone pile on Saturday and dump it in on the other end. I left ruts about 5 inches deep in the mud to get it there. If it gets too bad I will bust a round bale out around the outside to keep the mud down.


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## snow dog

Looks nice, you do good work


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## Cowboy

snow dog said:


> Looks nice, you do good work


 Ditto , Glad to here the wind didn't cause any more havoc then it did .


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## muleman RIP

When it gets light out I will take a pic of it with a ft. of snow on it.


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## Cowboy

muleman said:


> When it gets light out I will take a pic of it with a ft. of snow on it.


 Hopefully it will be on it, rather then in it . You must have that boiler working overtime to keep the other one at decent temps during this kind of winter .


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## muleman RIP

Well here is a shot of it with snow on it. The snow slid off the first one for the most part as it has a steeper pitch and is heated. Been plowing all morning and will get the skid steer out next to clean a path to the greenhouse for the wife.


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## snow dog

Cool picture, But you must have hauled away some of the snow !


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## muleman RIP

We got the rest of the walls done today and except for a few short pieces under the windows the boards are all on. Ran out of nails for the airgun. They are an oddball size and They only had one pack at Lowes the other day. Turned the spare gun heater on inside and had it up to 60F in less than 8 minutes. Will work on leveling up the stone inside and will probably need to claw another bucket full loose from the stone pile to finish it for the landscape fabric. The Amish boys liked using an air nailer for the boards. It helped speed it up as one was cutting and I was carrying the boards to the other one who nailed them up. We put in a hard day to get it all done. They asked if I could take them to our local gun shop to pick out some new bows. They want to upgrade and sell their old ones at the auction before they move. I will truly miss their help as I am sure they will miss my equipment and skills helping them.


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## muleman RIP

Finally getting around to taking some pics with it closed up and all the windows in. These are all second hand and freebies so I have only $130 in windows and doors. The boards cost more than that! Working on insulating anywhere that is not glass and then will put floor fabric down. Then 2 radiators get moved in to help the tube in the floor heat it. Hope to have floor covered tomorrow. The tomatoes are crying for more room as some are over 15 inches tall already.


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## Lia

Awesome!  Simply Awesome... words fail me.


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## pirate_girl

Very nice work!
Now, go relax!


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## muleman RIP

yes nurse!!!!


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## FrancSevin

I just finished reading the entire thread on this project. Very well done.

I noticed the glass and some plastic inside. I do this for extra insulation but I use Bubble wrap. It has air pockets that help insulate but more importantly,the bubbles tend to diffuse the light giving more exposure to the plants. 

1/4 inch bubbles seem to work the best.

My green house windows are at 36" so I buy the stuff on 36 inch rolls. A staple line at the top and a 1" X2" weight board at the bottom and you can roll them up on the double hungs when you need to ventilate.
Stuff gets brittle the third year. But is cheap enough

All of the side windows are just storm single panes I got for 10 bucks each at a closeout.

I also use it stapled to the ceiling rafters, (4X4's) giving an additional 3.5" of air blanket. Amazing how much brighter the light is in the room all day.

My greenhouse is on the south side of the main house. Six feet deep and 18 feet long, 10 feet high, all glass and acrylic panels except for the 4X4's, and on a sunny day in winter,the furnace never comes on.

The air exchange is convection. The moisture from the greenery keeps the humidity up in the house too.

Brick floor radiates heat after sundown. I heat it at night with a 1500 watt, portable liquid filled radiator.

franc


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## muleman RIP

Southern exposure passive like that is a good way to go. Wife wanted something that would keep all her flowers all winter as well as grow the starter plants for the garden. When the sun is shining you have to watch the temps and ventilate or temps can climb quickly.


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## FrancSevin

muleman said:


> Southern exposure passive like that is a good way to go. Wife wanted something that would keep all her flowers all winter as well as grow the starter plants for the garden. When the sun is shining you have to watch the temps and ventilate or temps can climb quickly.


 
Yep, I have seen 90F on the inside meter on a 15F degree day. Orchids love it.

One can install thermostatic operated fans for that. Even use solar panels to provide power or,,,,,hook up solar activated marine fans for automatic operations. Simply little module units you just cut a hole and install.

Like I said, adds greatly to the heat in the house. Just have to get the hot air on the cold side of the building. A two story stucture lends itself well to the concept. 

franc


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## Cowboy

Thought it was time to give this a bump as I'm finally getting around to THINKING about building one. 

  Wind is a major factor here so it kinda rules out the normal type greenhouse like pictured below. It does seem to be a perty good buy though for the size so I still am thinking about it. Heres the specs from the add. I also have no clue what to use for heat as we dont have access to gas or propane, any thoughts ? 

22'x45' Greenhouse frame for sale - $500 
Metal Greenhouse Frame with endwalls, framing for around bottom, plastic with wiggle wire, door, and ventalation fan. Greenhouse frame is still constructed for you to see what it looks like when it is up, and we can take it down as soon as you are interested in purchasing.


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## FrancSevin

Cowboy said:


> Thought it was time to give this a bump as I'm finally getting around to THINKING about building one.
> 
> Wind is a major factor here so it kinda rules out the normal type greenhouse like pictured below. It does seem to be a perty good buy though for the size so I still am thinking about it. Heres the specs from the add. I also have no clue what to use for heat as we dont have access to gas or propane, any thoughts ?
> 
> 22'x45' Greenhouse frame for sale - $500
> Metal Greenhouse Frame with endwalls, framing for around bottom, plastic with wiggle wire, door, and ventalation fan. Greenhouse frame is still constructed for you to see what it looks like when it is up, and we can take it down as soon as you are interested in purchasing.


 
That's a bargain for sure Cowboy.
As for heat, I haven't much to suggest, except for some passive systems.

Use manufactured brick pavers for pathways to absorb solar radiation. USe a solar powered recirculating pump and an underpath radiant tubing ton absob and re radiate the heat.  Store the heat via water in a large insulated polyprop tank. A couple of storage batteries to pump at nite. One 45 watt hour panel should do it.

Use the thing for "extending " your growing season by three to four months.


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## Cowboy

FrancSevin said:


> That's a bargain for sure Cowboy.
> As for heat, I haven't much to suggest, except for some passive systems.
> 
> Use manufactured brick pavers for pathways to absorb solar radiation. USe a solar powered recirc pump and underpathe radiant tubing to store the heat via water in a large insulated tank. A couple of storage batteries to pump at nite. One 45 watt hour panel should do it.
> 
> Use the thing for "extending " your growing season by three to four months.


 Well thats a perty good start, thanks Franc. I know very little about using solar for heat, but I sure am open to suggestions there as well.


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## FrancSevin

Cowboy said:


> Well thats a perty good start, thanks Franc. I know very little about using solar for heat, but I sure am open to suggestions there as well.


You're other Greenhouses have the PEk radiante systems so youare halfway there.

You canuse a simple single loop sysem herethe collector is the samebrick floor as the radiiator OR you can set up a second system where one, A collector loop, is mounted high in the structure collecting heat and the other radiates it later at nite thru the floor.

Harbor Freight sells a packaged 45 watt hour solar panel system for like $200 bucks,,,,,with an inverter/controller. Just add a battery. Run the pump, or pumps, off the 12 volt side. Use the inverter for 110v to run common, and cheap, tmers. 

Set the timers to run water middle of the day to absorb heat. Then a second interval at nite to re re radiate the heat. Adjust them for seasonal conditions. 

Use glycol if you are worried about freezing. Pumps would be the only freeze sensitive weakness in the system.

Simple stuff and a rather automatic operation. Effectiveness would depend on your solar energy levels and how well you insulate the system, especialy thestorage tank. You could amplify it later with a propane or wood pellet fired exchanger.


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