# Prepping for biological disaster



## m1west

Hi all, I hope not but this China corona virus thing has the potential to get ugly. In China basically the whole country is shut down. The only cities still operating are the port cities, when those close up shop it is going to effect the manufacturing supply chain for the whole world, which is going to shut down everyones economies. Then there is the virus its self. I think the mortality rate is much higher than being reported due to the Chinese government response. There are even reports on the news suggesting that. I would try to obtain anti viral medication or Collidial silver is known to kill viruses and when people don't go to work there is nothing on the store shelf. The best plan is not to get sick in the first place so if it starts spreading around here do you have supplies and somewhere isolated to go for months? Marty


----------



## EastTexFrank

m1west said:


> do you have supplies and somewhere isolated to go for months? Marty



Yup! … and the ammo to back it up!


----------



## tiredretired

To the OP.  YES.  Currently in the midst of some last minute preparations as we speak.  

Let the liberals eat out of a dumpster by day 2.  We will be enjoying much better fare.


----------



## EastTexFrank

TiredRetired said:


> To the OP.  YES.  Currently in the midst of some last minute preparations as we speak.
> 
> Let the liberals eat out of a dumpster by day 2.  We will be enjoying much better fare.



Maybe not by day two but by the end of a week things will be getting interesting.  

One of the freezers has some room in it so we had planned to go to the meat packers in town and get some steaks, ribs and chili meat.  I'm going to hold off a little bit on everything else to see how things shake out.


----------



## tiredretired

We keep a nice supply of freeze dried food in those 5 gallon buckets on hand. Those have an advertised shelf life of 25 years, but if kept in a cool place year round I am sure they will last much longer than that.  My son will most likely inherit them if not needed first. 

Further more we have plenty of propane on hand and two Kelly Kettles, as last resort,  to heat the water for the food.  Bare bones, no lie, but better than fighting a liberal for scraps out of that dumpster.


----------



## m1west

Something to think about is it in Mexico already and our southern border will usher it right in, with a 2 week incubation period while being contagious will be a good recipe for disaster in those fu<king sanctuary cities. We all know how sanitary they are. Can you imagine whats going to happen when Los Angeles, Sanfrancisco , Portland ,Seattle, Chicago, New York etc. become hot spots. First it will be in the social underground then explode into the general population. My que to head to the mountain is when they start shuttering government agencies like closing schools etc. This thing could blow right through with few incidents or blow up unlike wild fire. at this point no one knows. Marty


----------



## m1west

TiredRetired said:


> We keep a nice supply of freeze dried food in those 5 gallon buckets on hand. Those have an advertised shelf life of 25 years, but if kept in a cool place year round I am sure they will last much longer than that.  My son will most likely inherit them if not needed first.
> 
> Further more we have plenty of propane on hand and two Kelly Kettles, as last resort,  to heat the water for the food.  Bare bones, no lie, but better than fighting a liberal for scraps out of that dumpster.



Got 25 year food from the Obama days and always have canned food along with a good medical supply. On the mountain is  a cabin with cook stove, unlimited fresh water, wood for heat and critters to eat in a remote  hard to get to location 5 miles off grid also easily defendable with good visibility of the road below but completely hidden in the trees. Need to store more propane and fuel.


----------



## EastTexFrank

TiredRetired said:


> Further more we have plenty of propane on hand and two Kelly Kettles, as last resort,  to heat the water for the food.  Bare bones, no lie, but better than fighting a liberal for scraps out of that dumpster.



Not much freeze dried food on hand, some but not a lot, maybe a couple of days worth at most.

Nothing wrong with a Kelly Kettle.  I've had one for years.  My one works great but as you said, it wouldn't be my first choice.  In an emergency though, it's a Godsend.  Reminds me, I probably need to check all that stuff out.


----------



## tiredretired

EastTexFrank said:


> Not much freeze dried food on hand, some but not a lot, maybe a couple of days worth at most.
> 
> Nothing wrong with a Kelly Kettle.  I've had one for years.  My one works great but as you said, it wouldn't be my first choice.  In an emergency though, it's a Godsend.  Reminds me, I probably need to check all that stuff out.



I have lots of of pine trees around which means lots of pine cones.  They are superb fuel for the Kelly Kettle.  You can boil water in no time.  I keep a box of pine cones handy in the shed for that reason and making Christmas wreaths.  

Don't forget a nice stash of fire starter sticks too. I keep matches on hand as well, but love those fire sticks.  Cheap and handy.


----------



## EastTexFrank

TR, I live in the piney woods of East Texas.  I have enough fuel for the Kelly kettle to keep it going for years, if I don't burn it out.  

I am an old tent and car camper before I got too old and decided that I needed a little more comfort.  All the old equipment is still here and functioning (I think).  I still have a stash of fire starters of all sorts and enough butane lighters to last a long, long time.  If that fails, there is always the butane torch and cannisters of fuel that could incinerate a waterlogged log.  I use it occasionally to start up the wood fired smoker when it is being stubborn.  

I've lived out in the country for a long time and in the immortal words of Hank Jr, "A Country Boy Will Survive".


----------



## Melensdad

Apparently people in Hong Kong are unprepared 

Panic is spreading, but as it is essentially an island with no natural resources, the supply chain is the only thing keeping them alive.

I'll admit I would starve if we were stuck out here for longer than 30 days based on what I have stored.  (_assuming I don't shoot and eat some rabbits or a deer_)  But we have a reasonable amount stocked up.  And toilet paper, soap, cleaning supplies and dog food too.  

But realistically there is no panic and a ready supply here now and no reason I couldn't go out in 1 afternoon and gather up enough food and other goods to feed us for a couple months.  I'm slowly building up our inventory with each of our trips to the supermarket, Costco and Aldi.  I don't want to buy 30 days worth of food in a panic buy, but if I need 2 cans of beans from the store I'll buy 8 or 10 and just end up with an extra bit.   And doing that each and every time we go to town to the store it adds up.  





> *Panicked Hong Kongers Hoard Food, Water, Supplies Amid Coronavirus Hysteria*
> 
> Now that striking health-care workers have successfully forced Carrie Lam's government to close most of its border links with the mainland and dramatically restrict travel from elsewhere in China, a full-on panic has engulfed the city, fueled by "malicious rumors" about supply shortages, Reuters reports.
> 
> Chaos has erupted in some areas as *supermarkets have imposed limits on how many items customers can buy*. Hundreds of shoppers have thronged aisles of supermarkets as they struggle to buy up as many consumer staples - rice, water, meat, noodles etc. - as they can again on Friday. Chinese-ruled Hong Kong has reported 25 cases of the virus and one of only three deaths outside the mainland.
> 
> *"Everyone’s snatching whatever they can get. I don’t even know what’s going on,"* said a 72-year-old woman surnamed Li as she clutched two bags of toilet rolls.
> 
> The situation in Hong Kong right now is incredibly tense. Many still have horrible memories from the SARS outbreak of  2002-2003, which killed roughly 300 people as it swept through the city. But the scare also comes after months of anti-Beijing protests by the Hong Kong pro-democracy movement.
> 
> Already, Matthew Cheung, chief secretary for administration, said that Hong Kong people returning from the mainland must stay home for a fortnight or risk a $3,200 fine and up to 6 months in jail. Non-Hong Kong residents must stay in government isolation centers or hotel rooms for the same period, facing the same penalties.
> 
> "Self discipline and having everybody in Hong Kong fighting...this infectious disease is the most important thing," said Sophia Chan, the city’s health secretary.
> 
> There was some good news in Hong Kong: Thousands of medical workers who had been on strike this week to press the government to close the border voted to suspend their action on Friday night, though they said they would continue to pressure the government for tighter measures to suppress the outbreak.
> 
> City authorities said they were conducting checks for the virus on a quarantined cruise ship carrying some 3,600 people that docked in Hong Kong this week. Meanwhile, health officials are trying to trace people who had traveled on the ship, many of whom disembarked in Hong Kong in January.
> 
> But while consumer staples and medical supplies like facemasks flew off the shelves, Hong Kong's biggest shopping centers were eerily empty: Bloomberg reported from a deserted shopping mall....



Link to full story ==>  https://www.zerohedge.com/geopoliti...-water-supplies-authorities-expand-quarantine


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> Apparently people in Hong Kong are unprepared
> 
> Panic is spreading, but as it is essentially an island with no natural resources, the supply chain is the only thing keeping them alive.
> 
> I'll admit I would starve if we were stuck out here for longer than 30 days based on what I have stored.  (_assuming I don't shoot and eat some rabbits or a deer_)  But we have a reasonable amount stocked up.  And toilet paper, soap, cleaning supplies and dog food too.
> 
> But realistically there is no panic and a ready supply here now and no reason I couldn't go out in 1 afternoon and gather up enough food and other goods to feed us for a couple months.  I'm slowly building up our inventory with each of our trips to the supermarket, Costco and Aldi.  I don't want to buy 30 days worth of food in a panic buy, but if I need 2 cans of beans from the store I'll buy 8 or 10 and just end up with an extra bit.   And doing that each and every time we go to town to the store it adds up.
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> Link to full story ==>  https://www.zerohedge.com/geopoliti...-water-supplies-authorities-expand-quarantine



I think right now there is no need for panic here in the US but it is time to be cautious and prepare. If it were to start spreading around here one very good delivery system is money especially Paper money, I remember reading that there are 2 things present on all paper money 1- drugs 2- body fluids then public transportation, restraunts, stores etc. There is a Chinese buffet in town we usually hit once a week. The wife is Chineese and suggested we skip it for a while as she talks to the help there and the owner. They are all southern Chinese from that area and travel there frequently and now especially due to the Chinese new year. Marty


----------



## Melensdad

Honestly part of our prepping may be simply staying out of the public for a bit.  I think there is ZERO threat now.  But every day the treat gets a little closer.  If, and I say, IF this becomes an issue, it will be an issue a month or so from now.  My fencing event commitments are winding down, so my travel is going to stop.  Living 5 miles from the nearest town, 7 miles from the next and 8 miles the other direction to another puts us smack in the middle of nowhere.  If there is a pandemic, it might just be a desirable place to live!

We still have not been approved as foster parents ... not sure why but it may be a blessing in disguise.  We may delay bringing kids in the house if this becomes an issue because it will, through mandated visits to doctors offices, take us into the areas where healthy people probably should not be going!   And at 59 years old, we are not young anymore and most of the complications and problems with the Corona virus seem to affect older people.  Hmmm...

But as I said, no real threat today.  30, 45 or 60 days into the future that might be the same.  Or it might be different.  Very different.  Realistically I believe this disease will spread.  The question is will they figure out a reasonable treatment regimen for it and will there ever be a vaccine and/or drug supply to combat it?  The longer the disease is delayed from spreading the better off we will all be.

Oddly enough, ZERO cases exist in South and Central America.  ZERO cases in Africa.  Both areas are being courted by the Chinese with all sorts of diplomatic and infrastructure investments.  Apparently, however, very little travel.  

None in Hawaii, which again I find surprising because its a natural travel route for airlines.


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> Honestly part of our prepping may be simply staying out of the public for a bit.  I think there is ZERO threat now.  But every day the treat gets a little closer.  If, and I say, IF this becomes an issue, it will be an issue a month or so from now.  My fencing event commitments are winding down, so my travel is going to stop.  Living 5 miles from the nearest town, 7 miles from the next and 8 miles the other direction to another puts us smack in the middle of nowhere.  If there is a pandemic, it might just be a desirable place to live!
> 
> We still have not been approved as foster parents ... not sure why but it may be a blessing in disguise.  We may delay bringing kids in the house if this becomes an issue because it will, through mandated visits to doctors offices, take us into the areas where healthy people probably should not be going!   And at 59 years old, we are not young anymore and most of the complications and problems with the Corona virus seem to affect older people.  Hmmm...
> 
> But as I said, no real threat today.  30, 45 or 60 days into the future that might be the same.  Or it might be different.  Very different.  Realistically I believe this disease will spread.  The question is will they figure out a reasonable treatment regimen for it and will there ever be a vaccine and/or drug supply to combat it?  The longer the disease is delayed from spreading the better off we will all be.
> 
> Oddly enough, ZERO cases exist in South and Central America.  ZERO cases in Africa.  Both areas are being courted by the Chinese with all sorts of diplomatic and infrastructure investments.  Apparently, however, very little travel.
> 
> None in Hawaii, which again I find surprising because its a natural travel route for airlines.



I agree with your strategy in keeping a low profile and just staying away from crowds in general, don't panic but just pay attention. The cure is 3 months to 1 year away. Reports say it will die out with warmer weather but could return in the fall. I read that there is 1 in Mexico a returnee fro Wuhan. Marty


----------



## EastTexFrank

Melensdad said:


> I'll admit I would starve if we were stuck out here for longer than 30 days based on what I have stored.  (_assuming I don't shoot and eat some rabbits or a deer_)  But we have a reasonable amount stocked up.  And toilet paper, soap, cleaning supplies and dog food too.



Bob, I remember us having a conversation about this a couple of years back in the preppers forum just after you got your back-up generator (I think).  By the way, I still haven't got mine but I swear it'll be installed this year.  You helped me identify a couple of shortfalls in my provisioning plan, namely dog food and Scotch whisky.  I want to assure you that come what may, I now have enough dog and cat food for several months and enough Scotch to float a small battleship.  I'm ready!


----------



## bczoom

*For those of you that have and/or may use the freeze dried foods* - Your body isn't going to be used to them and may put on a little revolt.  I'd suggest you stock up on stomach meds like Pepto as well as items to address constipation and diarrhea.

I'm pretty much good to go.  Will go to store today for a bag of dog food and another months of meds.


----------



## Melensdad

Stopped at one of the local WalMart stores to buy some drywall mud, primer, sandpaper, etc.  While I was there I noticed they had a full rack of N95 Particle Masks and no throngs of people buying them.  At regular price.  I didn't buy any either.  I have them at home because I work with drywall while flipping houses so I buy them buy them in big boxes.  Still it was nice to see them on the normal display rack.  

I've heard they are selling out in the WalMart pharmacy area but I didn't both to look.


On a slightly different note...  I did stock up on a bit more food for potentially near future use.  

Not the freeze dried food.  But more canned goods but this time included canned meats too.  I feel better about our stores now.  We have actually had more food at the house in the past.  But the supply we have now is pretty good.  And it's all food that we can use for normal meals so it will all be rotated through our normal foodstuffs.  

The good thing about all this is that there is no need to panic buy anything.  

Supply lines are still in place, the risk of infection in the US is still slim to none, anyone who wants to start putting away bits for a rainy day can do that easily without paying jacked up prices.  A few extra this, a couple more of that.  Maybe a couple things that are out of the ordinary.  Better to have it if you need to self quarantine for 14, 30 or 45 days than to not have it and have no practical way to get it.


----------



## Bamby

Melensdad said:


> Honestly part of our prepping may be simply staying out of the public for a bit.  I think there is ZERO threat now.  But every day the treat gets a little closer.  If, and I say, IF this becomes an issue, it will be an issue a month or so from now.  My fencing event commitments are winding down, so my travel is going to stop.  Living 5 miles from the nearest town, 7 miles from the next and 8 miles the other direction to another puts us smack in the middle of nowhere.  If there is a pandemic, it might just be a desirable place to live!
> 
> *We still have not been approved as foster parents ... not sure why but it may be a blessing in disguise.  We may delay bringing kids in the house if this becomes an issue because* it will, through mandated visits to doctors offices, take us into the areas where healthy people probably should not be going!   And at 59 years old, we are not young anymore and most of the complications and problems with the Corona virus seem to affect older people.  Hmmm...
> 
> But as I said, no real threat today.  30, 45 or 60 days into the future that might be the same.  Or it might be different.  Very different.  Realistically I believe this disease will spread.  The question is will they figure out a reasonable treatment regimen for it and will there ever be a vaccine and/or drug supply to combat it?  The longer the disease is delayed from spreading the better off we will all be.
> 
> Oddly enough, ZERO cases exist in South and Central America.  ZERO cases in Africa.  Both areas are being courted by the Chinese with all sorts of diplomatic and infrastructure investments.  Apparently, however, very little travel.
> 
> None in Hawaii, which again I find surprising because its a natural travel route for airlines.



The kids are the biggest soft spot this nation has. Think about it, the entire nation had now gone to conglomerate schools where the smaller local schools have been closed and shuttered. If only one or two kids come to school with any contagious disease there are 100's of other kids present to share their woes with. These in turn bring it home to every corner of the county almost overnight and within a few days we could have a epidemic on our hands.


----------



## EastTexFrank

Starting next week I'll be refreshing my gasoline supply that I always keep on hand.  Some of it is a bit long in the tooth.  I was bored last week and went down to the barn to tidy up a bit and found 4 cans of 5-year old gas hidden back there.  I don't know how that happened.  I'm presently running it through the Gator to get rid of it.  I also need to change out the gas and oil in the generators.  I exercise them every 2 or 3 months but I need to get some fresh, stabilized stuff in there.  

Like Melensdad, I picked up some canned foods at the grocery store for emergency use.  It was the kind of stuff that I will eat when my wife is off somewhere.  Since I'm not fully mobile yet and back in working trim, I may run down to the preparedness store about 12 miles away and see if they have anything that I desperately need.

I checked out in the shop and I have four N95 masks.  I probably need to pick up a few more if I can find them.  I have a bunch of sanding and painting to do this spring anyway so they won't go to waste.


----------



## Melensdad

I need more bourbon.  

Yup.  

Just in case.

More bourbon is always better.  And Luxardo cherries, sweet vermouth and some bitters.  Yup.  I will befriend someone who has a working ice machine.


----------



## m1west

I need to store more fuel especially Diesel as the generator and a lot of other equipment I have are diesel. I think I am going to look for a used farm tank, the kind on legs with gravity feed a 300 gallon one would be nice and than I can buy the farm diesel too ( cheaper with no road taxes ) I don't know about storing much gas as it goes bad fast and is more dangerous to have around. I could also use some more canned meat. Marty


----------



## EastTexFrank

Marty, I don't know where you're at but if you're out in the country in any shape or form and have diesel equipment, get an agricultural exemption.  You can't use the red diesel on the road but for running ag equipment and generators, it's great.  

We have a 300 gallon gravity discharge tank at the farm but at the house I use 55 gallon drums.  Don't ask me why but I started off with one drum many years ago and just kept on going down that road.  

Most of my equipment around the house is now diesel but I still have to keep gas for the Gator and the generators.  It's a real pain in the butt having to rotate that stuff.  I usually keep between 30 and 50 gallons of gas for the generators but when I get my whole house back-up generator installed this year that'll drop down to about 5 gallons … I hope.


----------



## 300 H and H

If you lived closer, I would give you a 300 gal. gravity diesel tank and stand. I have two laying on the ground now.
Machines I use  have fuel tanks of over 200, and some are to tall for the tank stands to work by gravity. I would hate to say how many of these went to salvage yards in the mid West..

Some cut off the end and use them as a large burn barrel, and they last a good while...

Look and you will find them. Ask a California farmer. I bet the same thing happened out there.. 

I am converting my portable gen set to run a Hartz 35hp diesel for the reason of fuel life myself.

Regards, Kirk


----------



## EastTexFrank

300 H and H said:


> I am converting my portable gen set to run a Hartz 35hp diesel for the reason of fuel life myself.
> 
> Regards, Kirk



I have two gas generators, one is an old Craftsman model that I bought 20 years ago and the other is a Yamaha inverter that I bought to power the 5th wheel.  Both are on the small side but can power what I need to power at the house.  The only reason that I keep 50 gallons of gas around is to keep the generators running for a week during an outage and we haven't had one that long in ages.  Rotating gasoline is a pain in the butt.  Hopefully, getting the whole house back-up generator will cure that problem.


----------



## m1west

EastTexFrank said:


> I have two gas generators, one is an old Craftsman model that I bought 20 years ago and the other is a Yamaha inverter that I bought to power the 5th wheel.  Both are on the small side but can power what I need to power at the house.  The only reason that I keep 50 gallons of gas around is to keep the generators running for a week during an outage and we haven't had one that long in ages.  Rotating gasoline is a pain in the butt.  Hopefully, getting the whole house back-up generator will cure that problem.



In my opinion diesel implements are the only way to go. I didn't play with diesel until I bought a boat with turbo diesels. Since then I switched to diesel generators and when I get another tractor it will be diesel too. They can sit forever and start right up not to mention 10kw yanmar generator 1/2 gallon per hour and a 6kw I have at the cabin about 1/4 gallon per hour its pull start and starts better than any gas one I ever had especially after its a year old and the carburetor  screwed from the ethanol gas. Thanks for the offers of tanks if I was a little closer I would take you guys up on it. Im sure I can find something on craigslist. Marty


----------



## m1west

Im headed to Costco to pick up a few things that will finish off.

1- several cases of canned meat
2-several cases of canned vegetables 
3- Lots of T/P
4- 5 bags of rice and flour
5- salt/pepper
6- peroxide
7- vinegar 
Just heard on the radio while driving that Iran got 2 that tested positive they both died the same day also some in Africa. I was at Home Depot earlier not a dust mask or face shield in the store. I think I will fill a couple 55 gallon drums with diesel too. Its all stuff that can be consumed and rotated out if nothing happens but if I wait until something does happen it will be like the dust masks there won't be any and at that point I really wouldn't want to travel to a city to get it anyway.


----------



## bczoom

"Iran got 2 that tested positive they both died the same day"

I'm guessing government sponsored murder.


----------



## m1west

When do you know when it time to lockdown? For me I don't look to the authorities to tell us too much as historically governments tend to suppress information to suppress panic. Signs for me is when you see government agencies shuttering, like schools , post office etc. South Korea is now infected and telling there citizens to stay home. I feel right now where I am there is nothing to worry about but I am in CA. Sanctuary cities and evacuees from around the world are quarantined within 50 miles and things can change over night. For now I am going to stay away from there. Marty


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> When do you know when it time to lockdown? ...



Good question and clearly up to the individual families to figure out how soon they want to hunker down.  Some of that will be based on the supplies the you have on hand and what you don't have on hand too.

Wuhan China has been a hot spot since early December, we are now nearing the end of February.  That is 3 months for them and there are no credible reports that an end is in sight for the people in that area.  

Individuals have recovered.  Some are still being treated.  A smaller % have died.  But the area is still a ghost town.  

So how long will it take until its "safe to go outside" after an infection spread starts up in your area?  Looks like a minimum of 3 months based on what we see in Wuhan but I suspect it will be 6 months or longer in Wuhan because they let it get out of control.  Hopefully in Western nations it will be contained quicker?  Hopefully entire major cities won't become infection zones.  Scientists have also had 3 months to work on vaccines and treatments that may potentially lead to a cure, and by the time it his your home town maybe they will have been researching this for 6 to 9 months and working on treatments?  Or much longer?


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> Good question and clearly up to the individual families to figure out how soon they want to hunker down.  Some of that will be based on the supplies the you have on hand and what you don't have on hand too.
> 
> Wuhan China has been a hot spot since early December, we are now nearing the end of February.  That is 3 months for them and there are no credible reports that an end is in sight for the people in that area.
> 
> Individuals have recovered.  Some are still being treated.  A smaller % have died.  But the area is still a ghost town.
> 
> So how long will it take until its "safe to go outside" after an infection spread starts up in your area?  Looks like a minimum of 3 months based on what we see in Wuhan but I suspect it will be 6 months or longer in Wuhan because they let it get out of control.  Hopefully in Western nations it will be contained quicker?  Hopefully entire major cities won't become infection zones.  Scientists have also had 3 months to work on vaccines and treatments that may potentially lead to a cure, and by the time it his your home town maybe they will have been researching this for 6 to 9 months and working on treatments?  Or much longer?



Went to S/F yesterday to pick up the mini mini van. Not everyone but I saw people wearing masks on the street. I went to one specific place was there for 45 minutes didn't get to close to anyone then used hand sanitizer in the truck as soon as I got back in. And thats another good question you have, not only when to hunker down but how long? Like you said its already been 3 months in Wuhan and still going strong. With the supplies I have my family could go about 4 months on the mountain and longer if we start eating the wildlife there, water is unlimited as well as firewood. That would really suck for someone to hunker down just to have to come out at some point because the supplies are exhausted. Another thing for people that would have to shelter in place in a high population density area is the potential to get infected just breathing the air. I read that its known to be transmitted through the air for a good distance, thats how its being transmitted in apartment buildings in China. Its suggested that people get a hepa filter hook it to a wet vac and filter the air coming from outside pressurizing the room so air can not come in except through the filter.


----------



## JimVT

I think I'll get my septic  tank pumped while I can.


----------



## Melensdad

Well honestly I feel pretty prepared.  *Not sure that it is really possible to prepare for a global pandemic* but the wife and I decided to lay in extra food, cleaning supplies, etc.

Just finished unloading from a trip to Costco, the local preparedness store, + a grocery and a WalMart run too.

We bought stuff we normally eat and concentrated on shelf stable products.  We did bring in some stuff that is new to us like cooked canned ground beef, canned chicken and some freeze dried cauliflower, etc.  Bread mixes, soup mixes, etc.  Some extra olive oil, vegetable oil, sugar, etc.   A case or two of shelf stable milk and soy milk too.  But mostly just stocked up on normal groceries.  We probably have a 2.5 month supply of reasonably normal eating assuming there is no interruption to electricity and the freezer doesn't go down.  There are no reports of that, even in Wuhan so I feel pretty good about the electricity.  I do have 2 generators, one natural gas and one gasoline so I think/hope the electricity issue is a minimal concern.

_We also have an additional couple weeks of spam, sardines and pickles_ ​
Lots of toilet paper ... if I need to use it all in less than 3 or 4 months then I probably would prefer to die ... _see the spam/sardines and pickles above!_

Plenty of lysol, clorox wipes, soaps, shampoo, toothpaste, floor cleaner, etc.  

Even found a couple more boxes of N95 masks at Walmart in the hardware/paint section of the store.  

Extra motor oil, hydraulic oil, antifreeze, brake fluid, etc.  None in non-normal amounts, just made sure I have enough to last a full season.

Medicines are always an issue.  Most of my meds are on a 3 month refill basis.  1 of them is only allowed to be refilled for 30 days ... but I can live without that one.  The 3 month refill items are blood pressure and arthritis meds, so those are far more important than a drug that helps me sleep through my own snoring.  We have plenty of over-the-counter meds, buying in COSTCO quantities ensures that.  The average bottle of virtually any OTC med at Costco seems to be 200 and I usually worry more about them going out of date before I see the bottom of the bottle.

Sadly all my guns and ammo were lost in that terrible boating accident a couple years ago.


----------



## EastTexFrank

I must admit that I passed through the grocery store a couple of days ago and picked up some bum wipe, cans of Spam and sardines, hold the pickles.  I also went to Walmart for dog treats.  There's no sense in the pups being deprived.  Picked up some other stuff while I was there but the question is, "When is enough … ENOUGH?".  

Next week, my back permitting, I'll get my fuel topped up and then I think I'll pretty much sit tight and watch what unfolds.  

We do have a new outside cat so if the worst comes to the worst we can always eat Kung Pao Chicken.  Don't get on me, that's a joke.


----------



## Melensdad

EastTexFrank said:


> ...but the question is, "When is enough … ENOUGH?" ...



I think that is just an individual question that only you can answer for yourself.

Nobody can plan for every scenario.  

China, even in Wuhan, there is still food & the utilities still work.  So if you buy 9 years worth of food, if the virus is around in 10 years you are still screwed.  

We have a few months of the food we actually enjoy.  We have some of the food that I occasionally binge on or crave.  The sardines are for me.  I actually like them.  But even I can't eat them daily.  Ditto the Spam, I like it.  But not every day.  Pickles I could probably never get enough of.  And I did not actually stockpile enough of those ... because I'd have to build an addition to do that.

Ordered a very modest amount of stuff like freeze dried cauliflower.  Don't have any of the freeze dried pre-made meals.  I've eaten them, I'd prefer not to subsist on them.  But we picked up a few things like the cauliflower in very modest quantities to add to other foods or to supplement meals.  

Like I said we decided that a few months was our limit.  We also decided that the food should be basically what we already eat, or at least a close enough approximation to it that we will enjoy it.  And we tried for a reasonable variety so its not the same 5 meals repeated over and over.  We will run out of frozen meat and eggs.  Not doing the powdered egg thing.  And when the rib eye steak is gone we will go to stew and chili using canned meats but making the rest of the chili rather than buying cans of Hormel or Dinty Moore.  Its what we chose to do.  It may not be what others want, and that is OK.  It may not last as long as others plan to last, or maybe it will last twice as long as we need it to?  I just don't know.  

My goal is to minimize contact with the outside world, not sure that I need to totally cut off my life.  Maybe we do?  If so we can, for a while.

I don't want to live in fear.  Nor do I want to exist at the mercy of others.


----------



## EastTexFrank

Melensdad said:


> My goal is to minimize contact with the outside world, not sure that I need to totally cut off my life.  Maybe we do?  If so we can, for a while.
> 
> I don't want to live in fear.  Nor do I want to exist at the mercy of others.



That's basically where we are.  My wife is starting to take it a little more seriously.  She did a quick inventory today and reckons that we're good for about 3 months.  That should be enough for us.  No doubt in the coming days and weeks we will pick up some other stuff.  We identified a couple of things when we were talking about this over dinner.  

We got rid of our breadmaker a few months back because we never used it anymore but she says that she can bake bread from scratch.  I also know from our camping that she can make a wonderful Eggbeater omelette.  I can pop a deer in the front yard most nights not to mention the cattle running on the farm.  

If this thing does get totally out of control and we have to raise the drawbridge, we can do it.  We won't want to do it but we can do it.  Lord, I'm glad that I don't live in an apartment in a city.


----------



## bczoom

Bob - Sounds like you're in good shape on food and household items.
How are you set for things like alternate cooking?  Do you have things for cooking outdoors?
Over an open fire - Rome pie irons, Mountain man grill
Coal - a hibachi or similar
Grill - extra propane and grill parts

Don't forget other items for all the outdoor cooking:
Pam spray oil
grill cleaning brushes
scouring pads
skewers
welding gloves
meat thermometer
infrared thermometer
propane torch
...


----------



## bczoom

PS. Don't forget comfort foods/snacks as well as everything you would need for the dogs.


----------



## m1west

EastTexFrank said:


> That's basically where we are.  My wife is starting to take it a little more seriously.  She did a quick inventory today and reckons that we're good for about 3 months.  That should be enough for us.  No doubt in the coming days and weeks we will pick up some other stuff.  We identified a couple of things when we were talking about this over dinner.
> 
> We got rid of our breadmaker a few months back because we never used it anymore but she says that she can bake bread from scratch.  I also know from our camping that she can make a wonderful Eggbeater omelette.  I can pop a deer in the front yard most nights not to mention the cattle running on the farm.
> 
> If this thing does get totally out of control and we have to raise the drawbridge, we can do it.  We won't want to do it but we can do it.  Lord, I'm glad that I don't live in an apartment in a city.



Same here feel like I have everything I wold need to hunker down at home for 6 months if I had to. I Have enough canned food for 3 months then there is the MRE and the local wildlife after that. I live on 6.5 acres in a rural are so I can stay here as long as the electricity holds out, then if it were to get really bad I can go to the work cabin on the mountain in 4 hours on less than a tank of gas. For now just paying attention. Marty


----------



## EastTexFrank

bczoom said:


> Bob - Sounds like you're in good shape on food and household items.
> How are you set for things like alternate cooking?  Do you have things for cooking outdoors?
> Over an open fire - Rome pie irons, Mountain man grill
> Coal - a hibachi or similar
> Grill - extra propane and grill parts
> 
> Don't forget other items for all the outdoor cooking:
> Pam spray oil
> grill cleaning brushes
> scouring pads
> skewers
> welding gloves
> meat thermometer
> infrared thermometer
> propane torch
> ...



I don't know about the rest of you but my answer is Yup!  

We used to spend most of the summer cooking outside and still do quite a bit and when camping in the RV.  Besides we have a natural gas cooktop in the house and an induction cooktop in the RV.


----------



## Melensdad

Brian, to answer the outdoor questions:  YUP YUP YUP YUP and YUP



*On a much more serious note*: 

I just got done talking with my sister.  She lives outside of London, in the county of Surrey, England.

The local news announced another Coronavirus case in the UK, the case is in her county.  She said she went on line to order groceries and the store is being picked dry.  Everything she normally orders is a "high demand" item and delivery of her items cannot be confirmed.

She has LOTS of dry goods.  They are (mostly) vegetarian eaters so beans, rice, lentils and spices are common meals.  She stockpiled dark chocolate too.  The one thing they will miss will be their fresh veggies.  She did not stock up on any dehydrated or freeze-dried veggies, that may make their diet a bit bland, but at least they have plenty of food.


----------



## EastTexFrank

There you go again Bob.  Just when I was thinking we can muddle through this thing you bring up something else.  I better pick up some veggie seeds just in case.  I haven't had a garden in a number of years but it is still there and just needs a little TLC.  Hell, I may plant a small garden anyway.  I miss it.


----------



## Melensdad

This is a fun article. She encourages prepping. But then talks about bat shit crazy preppers. Still it makes some good points about just being prepared and how being prepared is never a bad thing.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/preparing-for-coronavirus-to-strike-the-u-s/

I am not going to quote this article here, simply follow the link and go read it. If anything, prepping may be good for your neighbors, and the general public, because it will reduce the load on the supply systems during any sort of a panic.


----------



## EastTexFrank

Melensdad said:


> This is a fun article. She encourages prepping. But then talks about bat shit crazy preppers. Still it makes some good points about just being prepared and how being prepared is never a bad thing.
> 
> https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/preparing-for-coronavirus-to-strike-the-u-s/



makes sense to me.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Most masks are useless unless they are the kind that have an adhesive seal around the mouth and nose.

Kind of like these:  https://www.healthrangerstore.com/products/readimask-with-eyeshield-adult

That being said, keeping your hands clean and avoiding crowds is the best prevention.

I just traveled to Toronto and Boston, lots of people like me wiping down their seats on the plane with sanitizing wipes.  A few masks in in the Newark airport but to be honest none of them looked useful for anything other than preventing a carrier from spreading the virus.


But I guess I have a couple of weeks to wait and see if I get sick or not.  

I was kind of hoping for a few weeks quarantined in an army barrack somewhere with no internet.  I could use the vacation.


----------



## m1west

PBinWA said:


> Most masks are useless unless they are the kind that have an adhesive seal around the mouth and nose.
> 
> Kind of like these:  https://www.healthrangerstore.com/products/readimask-with-eyeshield-adult
> 
> That being said, keeping your hands clean and avoiding crowds is the best prevention.
> 
> I just traveled to Toronto and Boston, lots of people like me wiping down their seats on the plane with sanitizing wipes.  A few masks in in the Newark airport but to be honest none of them looked useful for anything other than preventing a carrier from spreading the virus.
> 
> 
> But I guess I have a couple of weeks to wait and see if I get sick or not.
> 
> I was kind of hoping for a few weeks quarantined in an army barrack somewhere with no internet.  I could use the vacation.



What a blessing it is to live in a rural area.


----------



## Melensdad

Just a few local observations.  Went to run some errands today, also talked to my brother:

*Local large grocery store* was fully stocked.  Life continues as normal.  No panic buying.  No hoarding.  Although the Campbells soup inventory seemed to be a little low.

*Aldi discount grocery* store was fully stocked.  Life continues as normal.  Also no noticeable panic buying happening there either.

*Dollar General Store*:   Wife stopped in for some craft items.  Said that in the 15 minutes she was in the store literally EVERY customer who walked in the store asked the clerk where the Hand Sanitizer was located.  The store was sold out and is not sure when supplies are arriving.

My brother is in *purchasing for a hospital and clinic chain*.  He says he cannot get enough face masks.  Also the sanitizing wipes used by hospital and doctors office staffs are in very short supply.  Said the they will transition to bottles of diluted bleach solution as a back up.​
FWIW, Melen came home last evening.  She is off school for a few days.  She will be flying to North Carolina tomorrow, return flight is Sunday.  She will be taking 2 packs of antibacterial wipes on the airplane.  One pack for each flight.  Plans to wipe down her area, offer wipes to the flyers immediately next around her too.  She is aware that this is her last flight for a while, I told her as things heat up then I'm paying for her to take risks.  She agreed that it made sense to minimize risks like being stuck in an aluminum tube with strangers.


----------



## Melensdad

CDC says "older" and "high risk" people should stock up and stay home.

Lots of links at the link below that lay out the various recommendations.  

LINK ==> https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/specific-groups/high-risk-complications.html


----------



## EastTexFrank

Melensdad said:


> CDC says "older" and "high risk" people should stock up and stay home.
> 
> Lots of links at the link below that lay out the various recommendations.
> 
> LINK ==> https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/specific-groups/high-risk-complications.html



Having read all the advice I still don't know what "Stock up for a prolonged period" means.  Just how long is a prolonged period?  That's not very helpful.


----------



## Melensdad

EastTexFrank said:


> Having read all the advice I still don't know what "Stock up for a prolonged period" means.  Just how long is a prolonged period?  That's not very helpful.



Agreed

It said stock up on meds but I didn’t see anything about food.  Thought maybe I missed a link as I was going through the website?


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Melensdad said:


> Just a few local observations.  Went to run some errands today, also talked to my brother:*Local large grocery store* was fully stocked.  Life continues as normal.  No panic buying.  No hoarding.  Although the Campbells soup inventory seemed to be a little low.
> 
> *Aldi discount grocery* store was fully stocked.  Life continues as normal.  Also no noticeable panic buying happening there either.
> 
> *Dollar General Store*:   Wife stopped in for some craft items.  Said that in the 15 minutes she was in the store literally EVERY customer who walked in the store asked the clerk where the Hand Sanitizer was located.  The store was sold out and is not sure when supplies are arriving.
> 
> My brother is in *purchasing for a hospital and clinic chain*.  He says he cannot get enough face masks.  Also the sanitizing wipes used by hospital and doctors office staffs are in very short supply.  Said the they will transition to bottles of diluted bleach solution as a back up.​FWIW, Melen came home last evening.  She is off school for a few days.  She will be flying to North Carolina tomorrow, return flight is Sunday.  She will be taking 2 packs of antibacterial wipes on the airplane.  One pack for each flight.  Plans to wipe down her area, offer wipes to the flyers immediately next around her too.  She is aware that this is her last flight for a while, I told her as things heat up then I'm paying for her to take risks.  She agreed that it made sense to minimize risks like being stuck in an aluminum tube with strangers.




Went to a Walmart in Hood River, OR yesterday.  No hand sanitizer, the toilet paper aisle was almost empty.  They did have big jugs of aloe vera on display so I guess people are down to making their own.

Apparently, the local Costco was out of toilet paper.

I suspect the panic is relative to your distance to the nearest hot-spot.  They are panicking in Seattle from what I hear.


----------



## bczoom

If there's no hand sanitizer, check for rubbing alcohol.  Hand sanitizer is basically gelled alcohol.

Took stock yesterday.  I still have 400 gallons of alcohol and 150 gallons of hand sanitizer.


----------



## EastTexFrank

It seems that the internet has been busy with recipes for making your own hand sanitizer.  So much so that Tito's Vodka put out a statement NOT to use its vodka in your home recipes as it's only 40% alcohol and hand sanitizer has to be at least 60% in order to be effective.  Somehow that struck me as funny.


----------



## m1west

PBinWA said:


> Went to a Walmart in Hood River, OR yesterday.  No hand sanitizer, the toilet paper aisle was almost empty.  They did have big jugs of aloe vera on display so I guess people are down to making their own.
> 
> Apparently, the local Costco was out of toilet paper.
> 
> I suspect the panic is relative to your distance to the nearest hot-spot.  They are panicking in Seattle from what I hear.



Thats right and when a few die in your area the same will happen to the food to. They are haven fist fights over toilet paper in Australia right now. It doesn't matter how bad it turns out, it just has to be bad in everyones head to lead to panic.


----------



## tiredretired

Three underlying conditions will put people at the most risk.

1.  Heart Condition
2.  Lung condition such as COPD, Asthma
3.  Diabetes

I would love to see the media do their homework and give us statistics on how many people with these three conditions are the ones succumbing to this disease instead of their typical fear mongering.


----------



## m1west

Another thing to prepare for is cabin fever if locked down for months. Myself I am blessed to live on 6.5 acres where I can go outside do projects yard work whatever and if thats not enough there is the work cabin. I don't think it would bother me that much except the loss of income and thats a another discussion. For those stuck in a densely populated area I am truly sorry for you if mandatory quarantine happens here in America.


----------



## Melensdad

*Not so much "prepping" for anything* as it is just what we normally do and the way we normally shop.  But we are keeping the freezer full.  We eat through something and we replace it.  Buying in bulk, breaking down & vacuum sealing.  Still, if we are ever in a situation where we either CAN'T or just DON'T WANT to go to town to get groceries we have plenty here.  Always try to keep plenty here, perhaps now we are a bit more aware of the 'inventory' level.  But we do our best to make sure we never have a reason to be too concerned about food.

Today I broke down 3 bulk packages of chicken thighs that we bought yesterday.  We ran out of them since it is Chicken Soup season and we prefer making chicken soup with thigh meat instead of breast meat.  We've had chicken noodle soup a couple times in the past 2 weeks.  Love it!  

Each package I broke down started with a minimum of 10 thighs.  Broke those down into packages of 3 or 4 thighs, ran them through the vacuum seal machine and tossed them in the freezer.  So there are 30-ish thighs in the freezer, but repackaged into meal size _(or meal & leftover)_ packages.

Took an 8# Pork Shoulder Roast to the cutting board next.  Trimmed about a pound of fat away and then sliced it so it could be divided.  4 packages weighing about 1.75# each were vacuum sealed and went into the freezer.  We like them coated with Shake & Bake BBQ flavor.  It's the basis for a simple future meal.  Looking at it all, we probably should buy another big Pork Shoulder and break that down.


----------



## bczoom

For the pork, we find it easiest to buy the whole loins then have them cut it into pork chops right at the store.  We then repackage to meal size.  When the loins are on sale, they're 99-cents/pound.  Last time Mrs. Zoom saw it at that price, she literally bought 100 pounds.


----------



## FrancSevin

bczoom said:


> If there's no hand sanitizer, check for rubbing alcohol. Hand sanitizer is basically gelled alcohol.
> 
> Took stock yesterday. I still have 400 gallons of alcohol and 150 gallons of hand sanitizer.


One cannot eat or drink either of those to survive.

Prepping isn't about hoarding or "stocking up" as is so often told to City folks who honestly have no idea how to survive when the SHTF.

Gold, bullets and TP. Stock up on those. When the world comes to it's end,,,; They will be the difference.

Bullets because Gold will be worthless to you unless you can keep it. Without TP life wouldn't be worth living. 

Me, I have 80 acres of knarly Ozark mountainside. Five clear springs, a small pond, and small critters to shoot and eat. Plenty of standing oak and space for a garden. Gold buys nothing there so bullets and TP are all I need.

And some wind to run the generator.


----------



## FrancSevin

TiredRetired said:


> Three underlying conditions will put people at the most risk.
> 
> 1.  Heart Condition
> 2.  Lung condition such as COPD, Asthma
> 3.  Diabetes
> 
> I would love to see the media do their homework and give us statistics on how many people with these three conditions are the ones succumbing to this disease instead of their typical fear mongering.




I have the COPD/Asthma.  I take Advair which now costs $660.00 a month without insurance.  Fortunately, I do not need it daily.  Just during winter months. I have no idea why.


So I have been saving the extra for years.   Just in case the SHTF.  There are about twenty disks in my hall closet ready for when I'm broke, or Medicare falls into bankruptcy.


----------



## EastTexFrank

I see that some of you guys shop like us, wait for it to go on special and buy a bunch, cut and vacuum seal it at home and into the freezer with it.  

We have 3 freezers outside (and the beer fridge), not counting the ones in the house.  It's not that we are preppers but back when we raised cattle we would cut one out and raise it for our personal consumption.  When the time came we would take it to the packing plant and have it butchered and cut to order.  We also had friends in Dallas who used to buy a buffalo every year (mail order) and we were in for half.  It was raised and butchered in Colorado and the meat was shipped.  That much meat takes up a bunch of freezer space.   We don't do either of those anymore so there is a lot more room in the freezers these days.  My wife did swing by the packing plant on Monday and pick up some choice steaks, filet and strip, so we're not going to starve anytime soon.

And yes Franc, I have the bullets if need be.


----------



## m1west

The wife just called me, she went to Lodi Ca. to do some shopping and went by Costco for a few things. We have 3 Costco T/P bulk packs right now so it won't bother us but there is 0 T/P or water in the store, she asked about other stores and was told there is no T/P in any Costco in northern Ca. We don't have any cases right around here. What I'm seeing now is if we or you get some in your area there will be a run on the grocery stores so if you need something you can't live without you better get it now. Tomorrow I am going to pick up 2- 55 gallon drums of diesel and 1 gas plus keep everything full. I am going to fill all my propane tanks to. Seems like its starting to get real around here. Marty


----------



## bczoom

FrancSevin said:


> One cannot eat or drink either of those to survive.


I've had this alcohol and hand sanitizer for years and it wasn't bought as a prep item.  I use it for starting fires or heating.  

Have you seen the price of hand sanitizer lately?  It's $1-2 per OUNCE!  I'm thinking of listing some for $100/gallon.  If it moves and I sell 100 gallons, that's a tidy $10K.

I'm all set on the other things you mentioned.  I've been doing this for at least 25 years.


----------



## m1west

I don't want to sound tin hat but more main stream financial news outlets are now warning that if the world does not get this under control in rapid fashion it could be the black swan event that brings down the world economy.


----------



## m1west

m1west said:


> The wife just called me, she went to Lodi Ca. to do some shopping and went by Costco for a few things. We have 3 Costco T/P bulk packs right now so it won't bother us but there is 0 T/P or water in the store, she asked about other stores and was told there is no T/P in any Costco in northern Ca. We don't have any cases right around here. What I'm seeing now is if we or you get some in your area there will be a run on the grocery stores so if you need something you can't live without you better get it now. Tomorrow I am going to pick up 2- 55 gallon drums of diesel and 1 gas plus keep everything full. I am going to fill all my propane tanks to. Seems like its starting to get real around here. Marty


.  Still have to fill the propane and a few other things then I'm going to stay home unless I absolutely have to go out.


----------



## EastTexFrank

It's Wings Wednesday so I met my wife in town for lunch.  Out of curiosity I swung by the grocery store.  There was still plenty of everything on the shelves including TP and paper towels.  I strolled over to the pharmacy and the only space on their shelves was hand sanitizer.  It was absolutely bare, every brand gone, nothing.  I asked the pharmacist about it and he said it's been like that for two weeks.  Every time they put out a new shipment, it disappears.  

I was talking to Kacey Musgraves grandmother at lunch.  She had just got back from attending a concert in Nashville to aid the tornado victims.  She said it was the very first time at a C&W concert that the smell of Purell actually overpowered the smell of weed.  She's a funny ol' girl.


----------



## m1west

m1west said:


> I don't want to sound tin hat but more main stream financial news outlets are now warning that if the world does not get this under control in rapid fashion it could be the black swan event that brings down the world economy.



DOW is now off more than 20% and trading halted again.


----------



## m1west

Unload my fuel yesterday. Today I topped off all vehicles and fuel cans. The T/P and hand sanitizer is all bought up now and just like in Wuhan when people start dieing around here there will be runs on the grocery stores and the gas station. I don't know how bad the illness will be but the economic damage is going to happen. I am now home unless I absolutely have to go out. Europe is getting there ass kicked and we will to but not as bad. I hope.


----------



## Melensdad

My daughters roommate left to drive home to Detroit (area) this morning.  An hour later she’s back.  Her mom is sick.  Ordered her to stay at the apartment.  No clue if Covid-19 is even in the Detroit area but this is how fear spreads.  Seems a bit irrational to me.  

As we are leaving the apartment tomorrow we will leave her as much food as we can.  We planned to take it with us so it would not spoil but she will need it here.


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> My daughters roommate left to drive home to Detroit (area) this morning.  An hour later she’s back.  Her mom is sick.  Ordered her to stay at the apartment.  No clue if Covid-19 is even in the Detroit area but this is how fear spreads.  Seems a bit irrational to me.
> 
> As we are leaving the apartment tomorrow we will leave her as much food as we can.  We planned to take it with us so it would not spoil but she will need it here.



!000% agree the virus is secondary now the panic will ensue and cause more damage than the illness. I am not reading about it effecting Africa or South America very much. This lends credit to the theory that like other Corona viruses that it does not like hot humid weather. Pray for summer. Marty


----------



## EastTexFrank

m1west said:


> !000% agree the virus is secondary now the panic will ensue and cause more damage than the illness. I am not reading about it effecting Africa or South America very much. This lends credit to the theory that like other Corona viruses that it does not like hot humid weather. Pray for summer. Marty



I hope that you're right Marty.

As I said in another thread, I got my diesel and gas topped off today.  I could handle more gas but don't feel the need at present.  

We were due to take the motorhome on a trip to Fredericksburg in the Hill Country at the end of the month but my wife said that she would feel more comfortable staying at home.  So, staying at home it is then.  Still plenty of time to decide on the Colorado trip in the summer.  

Otherwise life goes on as normal.  All civic functions and things around here have been or will be cancelled so our social life just got shot to hell.  I'm not ready to hunker down just yet.


----------



## Melensdad

One of my fencing students posted these photos.  This is the Aldi grocery store yesterday.  I shop this store.  She posted these pictures on her FB page.  

Clearly people are walking around with blinders on and in full blown panic mode.


----------



## EastTexFrank

Melensdad, that is shocking.  It hasn't reached that stage here yet but no doubt it will come.  

They announced yesterday that they had 2 cases of the virus in Tyler, Texas, about 30 miles from where I am.  They had both returned from travel abroad.  It's creeping closer.


----------



## bczoom

Mrs. Zoom went shopping Wednesday. No issues, shelves were full. Went again yesterday (payday) and it was a madhouse with shelves being emptied.

The governor of PA just closed all K-12 schools in the State for 2 weeks.


----------



## Melensdad

We just got home from Bloomington.

Sort of surreal.  I was in the Kroger yesterday morning and it felt like a civilized veneer over panic.  Then last evening the lovely Mrs_Bob and I walked into a very nice liquor store that was having a wine tasting.  So 2 very different experiences in the same town.  

This morning we packed up the car and, about noon, departed for home.

Somewhere on the south side of Indianapolis I stopped for some fuel.  There was a WalMart Pantry grocery store and the lovely Mrs_Bob asked if I could drop her at the door, she wanted some cherry tomatoes.  30 minutes later she arrived with a cart full of food, but said it was like the apocalypse inside the store, which she described as looking like it was "looted" by the customers.  

Her photos from today:


----------



## tiredretired

We are stocked up for at least 90 days and no worries.  Already had a years supply of T-paper and other paper products on hand. 

BUT, I still hit the grocery store once a week for eggs, milk and veggies so we shall see what 7AM on Monday brings.  I may be in for a rude awakening I fear if the bastards have taken all my eggs and cheese.  :th_lmao:

The local Costco had to stop allowing more customers into the store for two hours the rush was so bad yesterday.  I wonder how many new preppers we will now have culled from those that have learned their lesson this time.  LOL.


----------



## m1west

Trying not to be a scare monger but now the the panic buying has begun the stores are being wiped out as fast as it can show up. The next shoe to drop is all of the stores have warehouses that they draw from and if they are not being filled up as fast as they are being emptied out they will not be anymore.
I am a contractor that services food processing plants, canneries and can manufacturing plants. This is how that industry works.

1- The can plants start up in February to build enough can inventory by July when the fresh pack around here happens then continue until October when the season ends.
2- the fresh pack happens in the summer because that is when they have the product to put in the cans.
3- right now there are not many cans and no product to put into them until July.
4- canned meat can happen anytime but you still need the cans. Marty


----------



## tiredretired

m1west said:


> Trying not to be a scare monger but now the the panic buying has begun the stores are being wiped out as fast as it can show up. The next shoe to drop is all of the stores have warehouses that they draw from and if they are not being filled up as fast as they are being emptied out they will not be anymore.
> I am a contractor that services food processing plants, canneries and can manufacturing plants. This is how that industry works.
> 
> 1- The can plants start up in February to build enough can inventory by July when the fresh pack around here happens then continue until October when the season ends.
> 2- the fresh pack happens in the summer because that is when they have the product to put in the cans.
> 3- right now there are not many cans and no product to put into them until July.
> 4- canned meat can happen anytime but you still need the cans. Marty



Yup, great points.  I am already thinking on how to stretch our 90 day supply out to 180 days. Hmmmm, easy really.  Eat half as much.  :th_lmao:


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> Trying not to be a scare monger but now the the panic buying has begun the stores are being wiped out as fast as it can show up. The next shoe to drop is all of the stores have warehouses that they draw from and if they are not being filled up as fast as they are being emptied out they will not be anymore....


I used to own a warehouse that supplied products, including some food items, to C-Stores, Gas Stations, smaller Grocery stores, etc.  

I agree.  Warehouses will draw off manufacturer's inventory.  They will ship too retail.  Stores will actually be restocked very quickly but if the 'panic' buying continues it the supply chain will run short.  The manufacturers can o?ly ship what they have + what they can quickly produce.

Eventually it will stabilize and people will have their own food stored.  The question is when will that happen and how many products will be out of stock for extended periods of time.


----------



## mla2ofus

Take note of all the items that are in short supply now. When the panic buying stops and the shelves are all full again check the prices of what was in short supply.  
Mike


----------



## m1west

I am not going to get into any of my storage until either there is none to buy or its too scary to go get it even if it costs a lot more.


----------



## road squawker

Melensdad said:


> One of my fencing students posted these photos.  This is the Aldi grocery store yesterday.  I shop this store.  She posted these pictures on her FB page.
> 
> Clearly people are walking around with blinders on and in full blown panic mode.



That first picture is the Aldi store in Corinth Ms.


----------



## tiredretired

Great news!!!  A friend just called me and he got me a 25 pound box of McKenzie linked hot dogs from a Restaurant Supply place he has connections with.  

Oh happy day!!!  I will pick them up tomorrow and get them vacuum sealed and in the freezer.   My prep work is now officially complete!


----------



## EastTexFrank

After I quit mowing today because of the rain, I was sitting around doing nothing when my wife walked in and said, "Frank, if you're in town before me can you swing by the grocery store and pick up some potatoes". *PANIC*.  A Scotsman without potatoes is like a bird without wings, that sucker ain't goin' to fly, bro'!  

I get dressed and head in to the store.  I had been there on Wednesday and everything was just fine.  What a difference a day, or two or three,  makes.  Don't get me wrong, there was still plenty of stuff there but the place was totally picked over.  Basics like potatoes, bread, eggs and the like were totally gone.  I got the last two little bags of potatoes.  

Just for shits and giggles I swung in to the paper products aisle just to see what was happening.  Not much.  Everything was gone except for 2 boxes of Kleenex Tissues and a double pack of paper towels that were absolutely mangled.  It was fully stocked on Wednesday.  Even all the paper plates were gone.  How the hell are you going to wipe your ass with a paper plate?

I decided to cut my losses and leave.  On the way to the check-out I saw a young woman pull about a dozen pizzas from the freezer and dump them in to her cart.  For some strange reason my first thought was that they are all the same type and flavor.  That's going to get boring pretty quick.  

I think that I'm going to stay home for a while.


----------



## Melensdad

EastTexFrank said:


> *After I quit mowing today* because of the rain....



We have 1.5 inches of fresh snow


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Melensdad said:


> We have 1.5 inches of fresh snow




I mowed last weekend.  I Plowed snow this weekend.


----------



## tiredretired

EastTexFrank said:


> After I quit mowing today because of the rain, I was sitting around doing nothing when my wife walked in and said, "Frank, if you're in town before me can you swing by the grocery store and pick up some potatoes". *PANIC*.  A Scotsman without potatoes is like a bird without wings, that sucker ain't goin' to fly, bro'!
> 
> I get dressed and head in to the store.  I had been there on Wednesday and everything was just fine.  What a difference a day, or two or three,  makes.  Don't get me wrong, there was still plenty of stuff there but the place was totally picked over.  Basics like potatoes, bread, eggs and the like were totally gone.  I got the last two little bags of potatoes.
> 
> Just for shits and giggles I swung in to the paper products aisle just to see what was happening.  Not much.  Everything was gone except for 2 boxes of Kleenex Tissues and a double pack of paper towels that were absolutely mangled.  It was fully stocked on Wednesday.  Even all the paper plates were gone.  How the hell are you going to wipe your ass with a paper plate?
> 
> I decided to cut my losses and leave.  On the way to the check-out I saw a young woman pull about a dozen pizzas from the freezer and dump them in to her cart.  For some strange reason my first thought was that they are all the same type and flavor.  That's going to get boring pretty quick.
> 
> I think that I'm going to stay home for a while.



Exact same situation here.  I realized last week i was not happy with my stash of paper towels so I picked up about a dozen of those two pack Brawny.  I go through paper towels really quickly.  Yesterday I filled up the Jeep and went into the store, thinking of picking up some paper napkins and they had nothing.  Cleaned out of every paper product, as you said, even the paper plates were gone.  

At least in the old days we had the Sears & Roebuck catalog to use to wipe our ass if all else failed.  :th_lmao:


----------



## 300 H and H

Do not forget those business who have what you need, but are not the first place you thought of for your needs....

An industrial supply near me had a case of hand sanitizer and all the paper products you could want... No one had thought of looking there for those things people are hording.

There are respirator masks that are able to be used against this virus, that are not medical, but for protection of workers in harsh and dangerous environments. Some of these will do the job of keeping the virus from being breathed in. Check around the net for more specific information on this.. Time to think outside the box...

Auto supply stores are a good place to look as well. There are other places like machinery dealers who will have some of the same as well. Hope this panic and virus will die down soon. 

Regards, Kirk


----------



## EastTexFrank

TiredRetired said:


> At least in the old days we had the Sears & Roebuck catalog to use to wipe our ass if all else failed.  :th_lmao:



We had the Monkey Ward catalog but hated it 'coz it was so slick.  Much preferred the local newspaper cut up in squares and hung on a nail.  It did make your butt black though.  Do you think that's where the name for the  dance "Black Bottom" came from?  Just kidding.


----------



## EastTexFrank

300 H and H said:


> Do not forget those business who have what you need, but are not the first place you thought of for your needs....
> 
> An industrial supply near me had a case of hand sanitizer and all the paper products you could want... No one had thought of looking there for those things people are hording.
> 
> There are respirator masks that are able to be used against this virus, that are not medical, but for protection of workers in harsh and dangerous environments. Some of these will do the job of keeping the virus from being breathed in. Check around the net for more specific information on this.. Time to think outside the box...
> 
> Auto supply stores are a good place to look as well. There are other places like machinery dealers who will have some of the same as well. Hope this panic and virus will die down soon.
> 
> Regards, Kirk



Good thinking Kirk.  I'm surprised I didn't think of it too because the local janitorial supply place is where I get the center pull paper towel rolls I use in the shop. I have almost a case of those along with shop towels.  I like going there because apart from being the janitorial supply place it is also the gun & ammo shop.  I know, it's what happens in a small town but even that doesn't compare to the fried chicken and bait place.   :th_lmao:


----------



## bczoom

Speaking of industrial supply (which I use), I was thinking of wearing this to the pharmacy tomorrow.  Maybe coupled with a tyvek suit. 
Mask, regulator, tank... the whole 9-yards. _It's an emergency escape respirator for commercial facilities._


----------



## m1west

I think I am going to fill up the tanks on my 5 ton today as that would be another 100 gallons of diesel in storage. I am praying our situation turns out more like South Korea and not Italy. If it turns out like Italy I see being on the mountain in the future. In concentrated areas it would be floating in the air. You defiantly would not be safe in an apartment building. I am now quarantining my mail for 24 hours before touching or opening. 
My sister lives about 30 miles east of LA and over the weekend she called me twice, Saturday to tell me the stores are cleaned out and on Sunday when she was in a line wrapped around the building talking to people that came out saying that the T/P is already gone and not much food left. I think if LA, SF or some other major city explodes with cases there would be a run on the gas stations for getting out of town and generators then after that folks would be running out of gas on the freeways and streets jamming everything up to only worsen the supply chain. Marty


----------



## m1west

m1west said:


> I don't want to sound tin hat but more main stream financial news outlets are now warning that if the world does not get this under control in rapid fashion it could be the black swan event that brings down the world economy.



Trading on the DOW halted again - 2250 points down this morning total -30% off since slide started.


----------



## m1west

m1west said:


> Trading on the DOW halted again - 2250 points down this morning total -30% off since slide started.



Gold and silver prices are sharply down too. I can see silver as it is used in Manufacturing that is shuttered but Gold is also off?? Are people liquidating to see what happens and are scared to go to the Market or Metals at this time??


----------



## tiredretired

m1west said:


> Gold and silver prices are sharply down too. I can see silver as it is used in Manufacturing that is shuttered but Gold is also off?? Are people liquidating to see what happens and are scared to go to the Market or Metals at this time??



I read somewhere the reason Gold is down is that people are selling it off to raise capital to pay off the loans on the stocks they borrowed money to buy.  Now that is one financial owey.  I really see no other logical reason to sell Gold right now.


----------



## tiredretired

m1west said:


> I think I am going to fill up the tanks on my 5 ton today as that would be another 100 gallons of diesel in storage. I am praying our situation turns out more like South Korea and not Italy. If it turns out like Italy I see being on the mountain in the future. In concentrated areas it would be floating in the air. You defiantly would not be safe in an apartment building. *I am now quarantining my mail for 24 hours before touching or opening. *
> My sister lives about 30 miles east of LA and over the weekend she called me twice, Saturday to tell me the stores are cleaned out and on Sunday when she was in a line wrapped around the building talking to people that came out saying that the T/P is already gone and not much food left. I think if LA, SF or some other major city explodes with cases there would be a run on the gas stations for getting out of town and generators then after that folks would be running out of gas on the freeways and streets jamming everything up to only worsen the supply chain. Marty



I am doing the same thing.  I have a PO box that I will now check once a week, which was this morning.  The mail is in the garage DECON for 24 hours.  

I also change out my Carhartts in the garage and slip into my one piece Boba Fett PJ's.  :th_lmao:  Just kidding of course, they are not one piece.


----------



## m1west

TiredRetired said:


> I read somewhere the reason Gold is down is that people are selling it off to raise capital to pay off the loans on the stocks they borrowed money to buy.  Now that is one financial owey.  I really see no other logical reason to sell Gold right now.



Jeez that is a scary thought, buying stocks with borrowed money. Thats like going to the pawn shop to buy lottery tickets WTF.


----------



## tiredretired

m1west said:


> Jeez that is a scary thought, buying stocks with borrowed money. Thats like going to the pawn shop to buy lottery tickets WTF.



I was thinking the exact same thing, M1.  If the stars line up, one can make some money quick in that bull market, but when they do not, ouch.


----------



## m1west

Out of curiosity I just checked the dow January 2017. Its the same as today. So All of the stock market gains made in the Trump presidency are now wiped out.


----------



## m1west

m1west said:


> Trading on the DOW halted again - 2250 points down this morning total -30% off since slide started.



Trading halted 4 times now, down another 1800 points this morning


----------



## tiredretired

When all this started I told my wife the Dow would bottom out around 15,000.  I am hardly an expert, just one of my hunches.  Currently at 19,500 and trading halted again by automatic circuit breaker.


----------



## Melensdad

I'm thinking 18,000 but that may be optimistic


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> I'm thinking 18,000 but that may be optimistic



Damn I hope so, but more than that I hope its not so far gone that it can not rebound or this shit comes back every year with the same affect. I don't want to be a doomsday alarmist but sticking your head in the sand is not good advice at this time either. They are talking a possible 18 month duration with waves, and shortages and are not sure if it goes away in the summer or after you get it you are immune. If any of those things come to pass will be a game changer.


----------



## EastTexFrank

TiredRetired said:


> When all this started I told my wife the Dow would bottom out around 15,000.  I am hardly an expert, just one of my hunches.  Currently at 19,500 and trading halted again by automatic circuit breaker.



You know when stock market prices swing wildly like they have been that it's the big boys, the big institutions that make all the money off it and they are making trillions while we small investors get stuffed … again.  They dump all they have in the market and the market, being nervous anyway, craters and drops several thousand points.  Next day they pour all that money back in to the market and drive it back up … at which point they sell and start the cycle all over again.  It's like taking advantage of a thousand or 2 thousand point market gain every 2 days.  They're making a killing!


----------



## Melensdad

One of the ultra-liberal/socialist fencing coaches, and his ultra-liberal/socialist wife, both reached out to me today asking to learn how to shoot.  

Hmmm....


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> One of the ultra-liberal/socialist fencing coaches, and his ultra-liberal/socialist wife, both reached out to me today asking to learn how to shoot.
> 
> Hmmm....



Make them grovel and tell you how wrong they were first. Just kidding they are probably scared and after shooting they will most likely enjoy it and go buy a gun. It took a pandemic but what ever works.


----------



## EastTexFrank

Melensdad said:


> One of the ultra-liberal/socialist fencing coaches, and his ultra-liberal/socialist wife, both reached out to me today asking to learn how to shoot.
> 
> Hmmm....



Oh! I love this.  This is the epitome of my Scottish grandson who hates guns with a passion but who sleeps with a claymore under his bed.  I told him that I love him dearly but if he wants to use 3,000 year old technology against me, I'll just shoot his ass.  He wasn't too impressed.


----------



## tiredretired

Well them being ultra liberal communists, I would assume the first lesson on page 1 would be to show them which end of the firearm to point downrange.  

Then the lessons may progress from there.


----------



## tiredretired

EastTexFrank said:


> Oh! I love this.  This is the epitome of my Scottish grandson who hates guns with a passion but who *sleeps with a claymore under his bed.*  I told him that I love him dearly but if he wants to use 3,000 year old technology against me, I'll just shoot his ass.  He wasn't too impressed.



Ahhhhmm,  why exactly?


----------



## EastTexFrank

TiredRetired said:


> Ahhhhmm,  why exactly?



Because he's in Scotland in the UK and they don't have many choices on how they defend themselves.  Technically having the claymore is an offense but since my great grand daughter does Highland dancing it's in the gray area that the police want to avoid unless you use the claymore  to chop someone to death.


----------



## Melensdad

Mary Kitchen Corned Beef Hash 

In a normal year I might eat 3 or 4 cans of corned beef hash.  If we go out to breakfast 6 or 8 times a year, I'd probably eat corned beef hash on half of those occasions.  So figure I eat some sort of corned beef hash 1 day every 6 or 7 weeks.  

There are a dozen cans sitting in my food storage and I'm in a panic that I will run out of hash!  I don't know why but my body is craving this stuff.  Comfort food?  Some irrational desire?  In the past week I've eaten it twice and I literally wake up craving it.  

I need more hash 

Are you craving any particular food yet?


----------



## tiredretired

Melensdad said:


> Mary Kitchen Corned Beef Hash
> 
> In a normal year I might eat 3 or 4 cans of corned beef hash.  If we go out to breakfast 6 or 8 times a year, I'd probably eat corned beef hash on half of those occasions.  So figure I eat some sort of corned beef hash 1 day every 6 or 7 weeks.
> 
> There are a dozen cans sitting in my food storage and I'm in a panic that I will run out of hash!  I don't know why but my body is craving this stuff.  Comfort food?  Some irrational desire?  In the past week I've eaten it twice and I literally wake up craving it.
> 
> I need more hash
> 
> Are you craving any particular food yet?



:th_lmao::th_lmao:  I have had that stuff and I must agree with you it is not bad at all.  Two poached eggs on top is a breakfast that will stick to your ribs, I can tell you that.  

The only food that I just cannot ever run out of is Peter Pan Peanut Butter.  I currently have 4 of those huge jars I rotate.  

Well, the Governor is going to mandate forced house arrest starting on Wednesday.  So.........the wife and I decided to hit the supermarket at 6AM in the morning for the two hour senior citizen opening.

She is shopping for her parents and I will shop for us. Originally, we were going around the first of April, but decided to push things up a week due to the circumstances.  I plan to not only replenish what we have used the last two weeks but improve on some things.  Yes, more Peanut Butter will be coming home.  :th_lmao:

BTW, if that is your go to feel good food, no way 12 cans is enough. For peace of mind you need more than that and right now we need all the peace of mind we can get.


----------



## EastTexFrank

Yea, I must admit that I have 4 cans of corned beef hash in my stash.  It's not something that we eat a lot of mainly because my wife doesn't eat stuff like that but for me it's "man comfort food".  Maybe when we get into the third month of this it'll appear on the menu.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Damn, I've never eaten canned corned beef hash and now I think I need some.


----------



## tiredretired

It's been quite a Day 12 of house arrest.  Woke up at 3:30 in the morning to 12" of snow.  So, outside a little after 4 and cleaned the driveway. 

We headed out to the supermarket at 5:30.  Some of the roads were plowed and some had a foot of snow on them.  The Jeep got us there with no issues.

Got to the supermarket a little early and no one waiting.  The doors opened a bit early and we were the only ones there for a bit.  Guess the weather had them spooked.  

My prepping was spot on!  Just about everything we keep on hand and did not need today was completely sold out.  TP, PT, canned meats, soups, bread, hamburg, sanitizer. I got the last Jar of giant sized PB. I did not need it as I already have plenty, but screw it. The mere thought of running out of peanut butter scares the bejeezus out of me.

The only thing I needed kind of bad that they did not have is yeast.  Apparently that is another scarce item.  I found some imported Italian Yeast on Amazon that comes in April 3. 

As a side note, the checkout lady said, when I paid cash for the grocs, that corporate is considering  going credit card only to save the gals from handling infected money.  I told her the money was clean as a whistle, in that I had just printed the bills last night.  She kinda looked at me funny over that one.  :th_lmao:


----------



## m1west

I have everything I need but will continue to keep the freezer full and get milk up town until either they don't have it or it gets to scary to go get it. So far staying home isn't all that bad.
I broke it up with a trip to the work cabin ( straight there and back with no stops) and last week with some ammo loading and shooting with the wife. 
Its been raining so have a shit load of yard work to keep me busy along with a few projects I have going. Mr Trump should just bite the bullet and force everyone to stay home with fines or what ever not to violate your rights. There are to many of those to stupid or selfish to do the right thing and unless everyone does it will keep poping up and spreading around. If it just slow rolls for months everything will be ruined. Like the bandage just rip it off.


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> I have everything I need but will continue to keep the freezer full and get milk up town until either they don't have it or it gets to scary to go get it. So far staying home isn't all that bad.
> ...



I feel the same.

I'm using the grocery pick up service to replenish + buy even more.  Added a 12 pounds of meat on Sunday, another 12 pounds yesterday, and ordered another 12 pounds today.  We don't eat it that fast!!!  But I'm finding creating "stuffing" and my method for packing it all into the freezer.

Sunday we used the service for the first time to try it out.  See if it was 'contact free' and it actually worked.

So yesterday on my way home from dropping off shotshells I pulled into the parking place at the supermarket and they brought my stuff out, put it into the trunk and off I drove.

Today I need to visit the drive-thru window at the bank to make a deposit.  My pick up time is scheduled for 4pm for groceries.  So I'll hit the bank about 3:30.  Drive over to the store, get more food, and then return home.  Ordered 4 more cans of Mary Kitchen Corned Beef Hash along with some potato chips and some real food too!  

Everything that is SHELF STABLE stays in the garage while its sprayed down with lysol and packed away.  Meats that get repackaged come inside, packages washed.  Opened.  Packages go into a trash bag.  Bulk sizes broken down and into Seal-A-Meal vacuum bags.  Original packaging, which is now sealed inside a trash bag, goes outside to the trash.  Kitchen cleaned, body showered.


----------



## JimVT

local pick up groceries store stopped the beer outside. now you need to enter to buy it.
really strange going to town. picked up my taxes .all the waiting chairs except two were removed . no magazines.


----------



## EastTexFrank

Lack of groceries isn't the problem now.  

Slept late this morning but when I got up I went to the bathroom to brush my teeth … NO WATER!

The main 8" line is broken and they can't say when they will have it repaired.  It's getting more like Armageddon every day.


----------



## Melensdad

EastTexFrank said:


> Lack of groceries isn't the problem now.
> 
> Slept late this morning but when I got up I went to the bathroom to brush my teeth … NO WATER!
> 
> The *main 8" line is broken* and they can't say when they will have it repaired.  It's getting more like Armageddon every day.



I'm actually surprised you are on municipal water!


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

The great toilet paper scare of 1973 lasted 4 months ...
https://priceonomics.com/the-great-toilet-paper-scare-of-1973/


----------



## EastTexFrank

Melensdad said:


> I'm actually surprised you are on municipal water!



When you get out into the country in East Texas your water needs are generally met by a subscriber owned water co-op.  Most are small and only cater to a limited area.  If your house is a long way from their supply line, it gets pretty expensive to run water line from the road to the house.  In those cases people sometimes drill domestic water wells but it isn't all that common.  Most people are like me and have a water well for topping up the lake and irrigation.  My grass is always green even in the height of the Texas summer.  

Well, it seems that I was wrong.  It used to be co-op owned but the "all knowing one" tells me that a couple of years ago the State started organizing all the small, independent water companies into "Special Utility Companies" which gives them some sort of Federal tax break and allows access to Federal funds.  Just say that I don't know what is going on around here.


----------



## m1west

EastTexFrank said:


> When you get out into the country in East Texas your water needs are generally met by a subscriber owned water co-op.  Most are small and only cater to a limited area.  If your house is a long way from their supply line, it gets pretty expensive to run water line from the road to the house.  In those cases people sometimes drill domestic water wells but it isn't all that common.  Most people are like me and have a water well for topping up the lake and irrigation.  My grass is always green even in the height of the Texas summer.
> 
> Well, it seems that I was wrong.  It used to be co-op owned but the "all knowing one" tells me that a couple of years ago the State started organizing all the small, independent water companies into "Special Utility Companies" which gives them some sort of Federal tax break and allows access to Federal funds.  Just say that I don't know what is going on around here.



Is your well water potable? if not at least you can flush the toilet with it etc. Maybe boil it to drink if you have to. That sucks about the water pipe.
Why now??


----------



## mla2ofus

Maybe someone didn't call the dig line!!
Mike


----------



## Melensdad

Well we had our first HICCUP with the grocery store pick-up system.

The grocery store we frequent is a small local chain.  Stores located in my town, the town north of here, the next town north of that, etc.  About a dozen total stores.

My bank is 2 towns north of my town so I selected the grocery store location that is between the bank and my house, instead of the store in town.  That proved to be a problem.  That store accepted my order, but actually the system never seemed to receive my order?!?  So I went at my designated time and there was no food for me.  I stayed in the car and called, they said "yeah, that computer order doesn't work here for the past 2 weeks..."  

OH.  Well F..k.  I drive home.  Placed the order with my local store and cancelled the order with their sister store the next town up.  So my groceries will be available tomorrow.  No big deal.  It was all going into my supplies anyway.  So tomorrow I'll get it after lunch.  But I guess this is proof that the systems are FRAGILE and not to be counted on for critical supplies.


----------



## mla2ofus

Sometimes it's best to not depend on someone else to do something you can do yourself.
Mike


----------



## EastTexFrank

m1west said:


> Is your well water potable? if not at least you can flush the toilet with it etc. Maybe boil it to drink if you have to. That sucks about the water pipe.
> Why now??



The water line was repaired in about 4 hours.  

To be honest I don't know if the well water is potable or not.  I've never had it tested.  It was never intended to be used domestically.  It was drilled to be used for the lawn sprinkler system, water the veggie garden that we used to have and to top up the lake.  I have about 25k gallons of chlorinated water in the swimming pool if needed.  I can also pump water out of the 4-acre lake and have all kinds of filter/purification systems to make it potable and safe.  I'm not hurting for water.


----------



## tiredretired

Day 13 of House Arrest.  Total state lockdown mandated by the Governor, a Republican, takes affect at 5 this afternoon.  Dems here are claiming it is against the law for him to mandate that. 

I realized this morning that my supply of bar & chain oil is almost depleted.  Damn.  I must have used more than I thought rust proofing the truck last fall.  Thought sure I still had a gallon of it at least, instead I'll be lucky to have a quart in the jug.  Damn.  Try and think of everything, but age gets in the way, sometimes.  :th_lmao:


----------



## Melensdad

TiredRetired said:


> ...I realized this morning that my supply of bar & chain oil is almost depleted. ...  Try and think of everything, but age gets in the way, sometimes.  :th_lmao:



Yup, I think every day I find some little thing that I wish I had another "x" amount of but none are critical things.  Just little nuisance things mostly.


----------



## tiredretired

Melensdad said:


> Yup, I think every day I find some little thing that I wish I had another "x" amount of but none are critical things.  Just little nuisance things mostly.



Yeah, I told my wife every time you think of something jot it down on a piece of paper or voice memo on your iPhone.  If I do not do that, 5 seconds later it is totally forgotten and I am racking my brain trying to remember what that was. :th_lmao:


----------



## EastTexFrank

Melsdad and TR, I am in about the same position.  We don't lack for anything and are actually managing very well.  At least I am but my wife is having problems.  She is still very involved in the local community and is in town once a day, sometimes twice, sometimes three times.  This confinement is tough for her.  I, on the other hand, don't go in to town all that often so it's no real hardship for me.  

One thing that proved problematic is the lack of fresh produce and veggies.  We have plenty of frozen and canned but you can't stock up on salad stuff.  It has a life of about 2-weeks so needs to be replenished.  You wouldn't think that you'd get in the position where you'd be willing to trade a toilet roll for a beefsteak tomato.  

Given enough time during the spring I could till up an acre or maybe two and have more vegetables that we could use.  That's what I used to do every year but scaled back and finally quit as I got older.  I can see a small greenhouse in our future to keep us supplied with greens during the winter.

Edit:  My S-I-L got back from Georgia last night and went grocery shopping during the old people's hour this morning.  She said that it was really good, not fully stocked but there was a lot more stuff than when my wife went late last night … she got lemons.  My wife is really happy now.

On a side note, the guy who owns a mom and pop country store in the town 11 miles south of us got himself arrested for selling TP at $5.49 a roll.


----------



## m1west

Just got back from meeting a customer and hitting the grocery store up town. I was able to get there right at 7 am when they opened. There new policy is they let seniors in at 7-8am then the rest. I was able to get everything we wanted to last 2 weeks on the fresh and filled the freezer again. After I eat I still have to take Roberts bronco frame to be dropped off then back to lock down. I thought today would be the only day I would go out but customers keep calling and you can't say no or they will call someone else and you don't want others getting there foot in the door so I have to do it. I never thought I would complain about work but here I am. I would much prefer to stay home WTF.


----------



## Melensdad

So a lady in my shooting group wants to buy a rifle.  I have a bunch.  The lady is in her 50's, lives with, and cares for her sick mother.  I'm selling her an inexpensive but reliable, AR15 with some magazines.  She ordered ammo on-line.  Can't find a gun in stock at the stores.  

Not really sure why she wants the rifle for self defense, but I keep them for home protection so I won't question it.  She has a bunch of wheel guns and is proficient with them.  I guess she just wants something more powerful.


----------



## tiredretired

I was always a shotgun fan for home defense. 12 gauge, 2/0 buck.  No need to aim, just point. If hearing you pump that bad boy does not put the fear of God into them, the 2.0 buck in the face will.   

Of course now, having lost all my firearms in the boating accident, I am relying on other things.


----------



## tiredretired

I just placed an order for some of this.  Most of my freeze dried stash is this brand and I can testify it is really good tasting stuff.  30 year shelf life.  Order is not delivering until May, but that is no surprise right now.  

https://www.amazon.com/Mountain-Hou...efix=mountain+house+breakfast+,aps,148&sr=8-1


----------



## EastTexFrank

TiredRetired said:


> I just placed an order for some of this.  Most of my freeze dried stash is this brand and I can testify it is really good tasting stuff.  30 year shelf life.  Order is not delivering until May, but that is no surprise right now.



I have some of their freeze dried food, not a lot, probably enough for a week.  I'm trying hard not to over react but after all this is over and things settle down, I can see me getting about a 3-month stash of Mountain House.


----------



## tiredretired

EastTexFrank said:


> I have some of their freeze dried food, not a lot, probably enough for a week.  I'm trying hard not to over react but after all this is over and things settle down, I can see me getting about a 3-month stash of Mountain House.



Yes, very good stuff. I ordered now because this is actually a lower price than what I paid over a year ago.  

I agree, a three month supply of Mountain House foods would be, for me, an ideal situation coupled with the regular stash, that would give a 6 month supply for two people. I would feel comfortable with that.  

Of course, all that is a moot point unless one can maintain a six month supply of necessary meds.


----------



## mla2ofus

Yeah, TR, there's no other sound quite like a pump gun chambering a round. If the bad  guy hears it and doesn't run then he'll have to be killed.
Mike


----------



## Melensdad

Well I'm pretty much done with prepping.

I ran out of vacuum seal bags.  Had to resort to ZipLocks.  After the last of the fresh meat was thoroughly frozen the Amazon truck showed up with more vacuum bags!

Melen is worried she will run out of wine!

Our problems are obviously "first world" problems here.  Other people are probably a lot more concerned about finding food and toilet paper.  Not going to gloat about being prepared or reading the winds on this thing but I'm glad that we were 90% prepared 2 weeks before the real SHTF.   We normally have about a months worth of food here, but at the end of the month it would be Spam + Pickles.  We are sitting on a solid 3-4 months right now, and well balanced meals.   But the wine will not hold out nearly that long!


----------



## mla2ofus

Our governor just locked down Idaho. All but essential businesses and even in our strongly Mormon state the liquor stores will stay open. 
Mike


----------



## EastTexFrank

Melensdad said:


> Our problems are obviously "first world" problems here.  Other people are probably a lot more concerned about finding food and toilet paper.  Not going to gloat about being prepared or reading the winds on this thing but I'm glad that we were 90% prepared 2 weeks before the real SHTF.   We normally have about a months worth of food here, but at the end of the month it would be Spam + Pickles.  We are sitting on a solid 3-4 months right now, and well balanced meals.   But the wine will not hold out nearly that long!



Melsdad, that's pretty much where we stand.  We used to run at about 6-months of supplies but ran it down to about 3 months.  We topped up on some essentials before the panic started.  I dare say we will run out of some "I wish I hads" before the 3 months is up but we will still be eating reasonably well.  

We don't drink a whole lot of wine.  My wife does enjoy a glass while cooking and I've been known to tipple every now and then.  I checked earlier on today.  The wine cooler is about 3/4 full of whites and the wine rack is easily 1/2 full of reds.  I'm more worried about my Scotch not lasting to December.  I seem to be going through it at an accelerated pace.


----------



## tiredretired

My big screw up was yeast.  I have none.  I never gave it a thought.  I always make a big loaf of homemade bread when I make a chowder or stew.  Damn.

I just about got the last tin of it on Amazon but I will not get it until April 9.  I am chomping at the bit for my Beef Stew.  I guess I will keep chomping for a few more weeks.  :th_lmao:


----------



## Melensdad

TiredRetired said:


> My big screw up was yeast.  I have none.  I never gave it a thought.  I always make a big loaf of homemade bread when I make a chowder or stew.  Damn.
> 
> I just about got the last tin of it on Amazon but I will not get it until April 9.  I am chomping at the bit for my Beef Stew.  I guess I will keep chomping for a few more weeks.  :th_lmao:



We generally do the bread-mix instead of scratch.  Sometimes we do scratch but not very often.  Not sure if we have yeast.  But we have a 18+ boxes of various types of mix.  Hawaiian, Italian, Sourdough, 10 grain, etc


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

TiredRetired said:


> My big screw up was yeast.  I have none.  I never gave it a thought.  I always make a big loaf of homemade bread when I make a chowder or stew.  Damn.


PM me your address and I'll drop some packets in an envelope and mail it to you.


----------



## tiredretired

PBinWA said:


> PM me your address and I'll drop some packets in an envelope and mail it to you.



That's very nice of you and I appreciate it.  However, it seems they pushed my date up to April 3 so I will have it by next weekend.  You hold on to your supply, trust me there is NONE to be had, at least around here.  

Again, thank you, sir!!  Very much.


----------



## EastTexFrank

TiredRetired said:


> My big screw up was yeast.  I have none.  I never gave it a thought.  I always make a big loaf of homemade bread when I make a chowder or stew.



TR, You have my sympathy.  We have some loaves frozen but our back-up was to bake our own … until my wife discovered that we had no yeast. 

We used to do the breadmaker thing until I was diagnosed with diabetes about 12-years ago.  It was put away never to be seen again.   In fact, we tossed it about a year ago.  It was just taking up space.  I really wish that we had kept it now.  Some fresh bread would be a moral booster.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

EastTexFrank said:


> TR, You have my sympathy.  We have some loaves frozen but our back-up was to bake our own … until my wife discovered that we had no yeast.




I bought a whole pile of the little packets when I did my last prepper shop.  I generally don't eat bread and my wife and kids are too lazy to make it.

If you want a couple let me know.  It's one thing that's easy to ship.


----------



## tiredretired

EastTexFrank said:


> TR, You have my sympathy.  We have some loaves frozen but our back-up was to bake our own … until my wife discovered that we had no yeast.
> 
> We used to do the breadmaker thing until I was diagnosed with diabetes about 12-years ago.  It was put away never to be seen again.   In fact, we tossed it about a year ago.  It was just taking up space.  I really wish that we had kept it now.  Some fresh bread would be a moral booster.



For some reason I love making bread the old fashioned way.  We do a mix of 25% whole wheat flour and 75% white.  Can't buy anything like that in the store.  

I found one vendor on Amazon selling some imported Italian yeast for 7 bucks for a 3.5 oz tin.  A few hours later, sold out.  As they say, timing is everything.

My wife was telling me some vendors are selling Campbells soup for as much as 10 bucks a can on Amazon.  Sons-a-bitches should have their ass kicked.


----------



## Melensdad

Just took a loaf out of our bread machine.  

I prefer it baked in the oven but I wasn’t doing the baking!


----------



## EastTexFrank

Melensdad said:


> Just took a loaf out of our bread machine.
> 
> I prefer it baked in the oven but I wasn’t doing the baking!



Darn you Melensdad.      Nah, just kidding.  

Thank you PB but there is no need.  We have enough bread to last us for a little while.  We put a couple of loaves in the freezer before all this started.  We don't usually eat a lot of it anyway.  My S-I-L is a baker.  She doesn't often bake from scratch any more but she still has some good yeast we can borrow if needed.  Heck, I should let her do the baking and trade her for the loaves.  I know that she is getting short on toilet paper.


----------



## Melensdad

EastTexFrank said:


> .... My S-I-L is a baker.  She doesn't often bake from scratch any more but she still has some good yeast we can borrow if needed.  Heck, I should let her do the baking and trade her for the loaves.  I know that she is getting short on toilet paper.


Wait until she is 1/2 way through her last roll before you start negotiations.


----------



## Melensdad




----------



## Melensdad

This guy does a good job of simply illustrating how to deal with bringing food into the house during an infectious pandemic. 

Trying to imbed the video but it doesn't seem to be working... click the link.






LINK =>  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjDuwc9KBps


----------



## tiredretired

We've been doing all that and then some.  Good to see we are on the right track.  

The thing for me is while I am out at the supermarket or post office, basically the only two places we go lately, I need to be constantly reminding myself on all the protocols.  All it takes in one lapse of memory.  One nose scratch or eye rub.  

Like President Trump said, I miss not touching my face.  :th_lmao:


----------



## m1west

There are 19 in our area now, within 15 miles. I am probably done going up town for a while


----------



## m1west

Power went out  a couple hours ago and now running off of the generator, glad I picked up the diesel for storage


----------



## Melensdad

Went into town today.  Stopped and filled the gas tank at a self serve pump.  

Pulled into the supermarket parking lot.  Hit the "I'm Here" button on the supermarket smartphone "app" and waited for about 5 minutes.  2 guys wheeling 4 shopping carts showed up at my car, loaded everything into the car and I drove off.

Got home, unloaded everything into our 'sanitation area' inside our garage and sprayed down each can, package and box before moving them into their respective food storage area.  Canned and bottled items go onto shelves.  Items in pouches, packages and boxes go into sealed storage bins.

Even with the Lysol spray and wipe down, none of the foods I bought home today will be used for at least another 24 hours.  Because of rotation of goods, most may not be touched again for weeks or longer.  Any virus cells the Lysol wipe down missed should be die over time.

As per our protocol, my shoes and jacket stayed outside.  I walked in and straight to the laundry room to strip down.  Then straight into the shower.  That pair of shoes and jacket are the only ones worn when interacting with the outside world.  There is only 1 car that goes off the property and into town.  Maybe that is overkill?  I don't know.  But we think we are all healthy and with Melen having diabetes our goal is to continue to stay healthy.

Both freezers are full.  Both refrigerators are full.  Pantry is full.  On the storage shelves we have enough pasta and various sauces to satisfy a small town in Italy.  Plenty of Oreos.  Cases of Tomatoes, Kidney/Pinto/etc Beans, Corn, Green Beans, Mushrooms, Stir Fry Veggies, Soups of many flavors, even some guilty pleasure foods like cans of Spaghetti-Os, Beefaroni and Mini-Ravioli.  A few dozen boxes of various bread mixes, pizza crust mix and a few dozen boxes of various types of skillet potatoes.  Case of canned chicken, 2 cases of large cans of canned ground beef, case of canned pulled pork, case of canned stew meat.  A few dozen various pre-mix dried rice dishes from RedBeans & Rice to Spanish Rice to Cajun style Dirty Rice and everything in between.  4 dozen Low Carb cauliflower based meal "cups" of various flavors.  Oils, vinegars, flavoring sauces, spices.  Even got Kool-aid and real juice too.  We also have a large rubbermaid bin full of freeze-dried veggies.  Lots of butter is in the freezer but we also have jars of Ghee (_shelf stable clarified butter_) to supplement the various types of cooking oils.  Paper products, cleaning supplies, medicines.  Dog food and dog treats too.  Some loaded guns and plenty of ammo too.

FWIW, instead of buying bulk rice, beans, etc we opted to buy packaged products that we normally enjoy.  So Zatarain's Dirty Rice, Vigo Red Beans & Rice, Knorr Noodles Alfredo, etc. We already eat those things so we know how to cook them, how to modify them with various meats or veggies, etc.  I have some friends with 50# bags of rice & beans in storage, good for them if that is what they want but I'd look at that giant 50# bag of rice and then decide to just grab anything else.  But with the pre-packaged stuff I can pick a flavor and make it.  I just don't want to do the scratch cooking stuff all the time.  Our supplies of Freeze-Dried foods are also very modest.  I'd rather have a can of condensed tomato soup than a bag of tomato powder, but that is just my preference others are welcome to disagree.  I do have things like dried milk powder and freeze dried eggs.

I think we are pretty well set for a long sit.  

I'm not going to say I won't go back into town.  Very likely I will be going back, but probably only to refill the gas and diesel storage cans and that can be done without interacting with any human and minimal contact with anything else.  2 years ago I got rid of my 500-gallon diesel tank.  Kind of wish I still had that.

The local grocery chain's on-line ordering system is a 3rd party software system that is running at full capacity.  It crashed several times today.  I expect that will happen all around the world for grocery stores as more and more people begin to switch from in-store shopping to drive up service.  Saw an article were less than 5% of all groceries were bought though on-line services last year, it is expected to top 20% in the next month.  That type of growth will cause a lot of problems for shoppers and stores.


----------



## tiredretired

Yeah, we are doing well here as well.  On our walk today we were discussing how little food we are actually consuming.  I may have to revise my estimates on long our stash will last.  

We won't need to do the supermarket thing for at least a few weeks now.  The local General Store is now doing curb side service.  Just call in your order and they will call when it is ready and go pick it up.  No app things, which is fine with me.  

Gas has dropped here almost 50 cents a gallon since I bought it last.  These are sure some weird times.


----------



## tiredretired

Melensdad said:


> Mary Kitchen Corned Beef Hash
> 
> In a normal year I might eat 3 or 4 cans of corned beef hash.  If we go out to breakfast 6 or 8 times a year, I'd probably eat corned beef hash on half of those occasions.  So figure I eat some sort of corned beef hash 1 day every 6 or 7 weeks.
> 
> There are a dozen cans sitting in my food storage and I'm in a panic that I will run out of hash!  I don't know why but my body is craving this stuff.  Comfort food?  Some irrational desire?  In the past week I've eaten it twice and I literally wake up craving it.
> 
> I need more hash
> 
> Are you craving any particular food yet?



I just placed an order for a case of 8 on Amazon.  Comes with a tote bag.


----------



## mla2ofus

Well, TR, at least this hash doesn't screw up your brain, LOL!!
Mike


----------



## tiredretired

mla2ofus said:


> Well, TR, at least this hash doesn't screw up your brain, LOL!!
> Mike



Yeah, true story, but it prolly doesn't do wonders for my cholesterol levels. :th_lmao:


----------



## Melensdad

Damn, I don't have a tote bag!


----------



## m1west

With Amazon and grocery workers walking of jobs due to safety there are some city dwellers that are gong to be in a world of hurt if the supply chain brakes down. Also Lots of law enforcement been getting sick and calling off. Those 2 things added together = if this trend gets some air under it wings. I also been hearing about truckers that don't want to go to the hot spots.


----------



## Melensdad

And this could get really ugly, especially for the city folk who have limited mobility.

I'll admit I don't really know this source.

Interesting how many people eat at restaurants and/or do carry out.  Logical to assume that as restaurant demand diminishes the burden on supermarkets will increase.  However the foodservice products are packed differently and the not readily useable for small households, even if they could be purchased.

For your consideration:  http://endoftheamericandream.com/ar...nwide-as-food-distribution-systems-break-down


> *Supplies Are Starting To Get Really Tight Nationwide As Food Distribution Systems Break Down*
> March 30, 2020 by Michael Snyder
> 
> All across America, store shelves are emptying and people are becoming increasingly frustrated because they can’t get their hands on needed supplies.  Most Americans are blaming “hoarders” for the current mess, but it is actually much more complicated than that.  Normally, Americans get a lot of their food from restaurants.  In fact, during normal times 36 percent of all Americans eat at a fast food restaurant on any given day.  But now that approximately 75 percent of the U.S. is under some sort of a “shelter-in-place” order and most of our restaurants have shut down, things have completely changed.  Suddenly our grocery stores are being flooded with unexpected traffic, and many people are buying far more than usual in anticipation of a long pandemic.  Unfortunately, our food distribution systems were not designed to handle this sort of a surge, and things are really starting to get crazy out there.
> 
> I would like to share with you an excerpt from an email that I was sent recently.  It describes the chaos that grocery stores in Utah and Idaho have been experiencing…
> 
> _When this virus became a problem that we as a nation could see as an imminent threat, Utah, because of its culture of food storage and preparing for disaster events seemed to “get the memo” first. The week of March 8th grocery sales more than doubled in Utah, up 218%. Many states stayed the same with increases in some. Idaho seemed to “get the memo” about four days later. We were out of water and TP four days after Utah. Then we were out of food staples about four days later. Next was produce following a pattern set by Utah four days earlier.
> 
> The problem for us in Idaho was this. The stores in Utah were emptied out then refilled twice by the warehouses before it hit Idaho. Many of these Utah stores have trucks delivering daily. So when it did hit Idaho the warehouses had been severely taxed. We had a hard time filling our store back up even one time. We missed three scheduled trucks that week alone. Then orders finally came they were first 50% of the order and have dropped to 20%. In normal circumstances we receive 98% of our orders and no canceled trucks. Now three weeks later, the warehouses in the Western United States have all been taxed. In turn, those warehouses have been taxing the food manufacturers. These food companies have emptied their facilities to fill the warehouses of the Western United States. The East Coast hasn’t seemed to “get the memo” yet. When they do what food will be left to fill their warehouses and grocery stores?
> 
> Food distribution and resources for the Eastern United States will be at great peril even if no hoarding there takes place. But of course it will.
> 
> Additionally the food culture of the East Coast and other urban areas is such that people keep very little food on hand. They often shop several times weekly for items if they cook at home. They don’t have big freezers full of meat, home canned vegetables in their storage rooms, gardens, or beans, wheat, and rice in buckets in the their basements._​
> With most of the country locked down, normal economic activity has come to a standstill, and it is going to become increasingly difficult for our warehouses to meet the demand that grocery stores are putting on them.
> 
> Meanwhile, our farmers are facing severe problems of their own.  The following comes from CNBC…
> 
> _The U.S.-China trade war sent scores of farmers out of business. Record flooding inundated farmland and destroyed harvests. And a blistering heat wave stunted crop growth in the Midwest.
> 
> Now, the coronavirus pandemic has dealt another blow to a vulnerable farm economy, sending crop and livestock prices tumbling and raising concerns about sudden labor shortages._​The chaos in the financial markets is likely to continue for the foreseeable future, and it is going to remain difficult for farm laborers to move around as long as “shelter-in-place” orders remain in effect on the state level.
> 
> Iowa farmer Robb Ewoldt told reporter Emma Newburger that “we’ve stopped saying it can’t get worse”, and he says that this coronavirus pandemic looks like it could be “the straw that broke the camel’s back”…
> 
> _“We were already under extreme financial pressure. With the virus sending the prices down — it’s getting to be the straw that broke the camel’s back,” said Iowa farmer Robb Ewoldt.
> 
> “We were hoping for something good this year, but this virus has stopped all our markets,” he said._​
> Of course this comes at a time when millions of Americans are losing their jobs and unemployment is shooting up to unthinkable levels.  Without any money coming in, many people are already turning to alternative sources of help in order to feed themselves and their families.
> 
> ....



Go to the link for the rest of the story


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> And this could get really ugly, especially for the city folk who have limited mobility.
> 
> I'll admit I don't really know this source.
> 
> Interesting how many people eat at restaurants and/or do carry out.  Logical to assume that as restaurant demand diminishes the burden on supermarkets will increase.  However the foodservice products are packed differently and the not readily useable for small households, even if they could be purchased.
> 
> For your consideration:  http://endoftheamericandream.com/ar...nwide-as-food-distribution-systems-break-down
> ​
> Go to the link for the rest of the story



No one wants be a scare monger but as it un folds the situation for the US and World I believe is going to get worse, a lot worse especially in cities. I think it will start in the poor neighborhoods first. The hotspots will overwhelm much like what is happening in NewYork. NewYork is now begging for supplies and healthcare workers. People are going to get sick/scared and will stop going  to work, the whole situation will snowball. The longer it goes on the worse the financial damage will be. Looking back at the 1929 crash the cause is different but the outcome could be the same. There are estimates that 30% of small businesses will not make it through this. Small business is the largest employer of Americans so when it over the largest employer could be gone too. First there is a glut of product but no-one is buying, that causes depreciation, then when the product is eventually bought up    most manufacturing has been halted and there are no new supplies or jobs the currency will depreciate causing hyper inflation on life staples like food. Money and borrowing will also be tight so trying to restart your failed business may not be so easy. The hope that we have is it goes away with the warm weather and allows enough time to regroup and come-with a cure. As we go into summer regions like Africa, South America etc, will be going into there winter which will cause those 3rd world countries to explode. I hope I am 100% wrong but its not looking good and here in the US were only into it a month.


----------



## tiredretired

There are some really good deals on Amazon right now and some real rip off ones.  My wife has spent hours perusing that site with her iPad and ordering stuff that are good deals and reasonably priced.  

I have lost total control of the budget and trying to reconcile monies spent to the spreadsheet I use to maintain the budget cash flow.  :th_lmao:  About an hour ago I just leaned back in the chair and decided to just let everything come and when the smoke clears try to reconcile the books then.  :th_lmao:

On the plus side, we have a ton of stuff coming in that will guarantee us supplies for much longer than 90 days now. 

If things turn out to be not as bad as predicted, we shouldn't have to go grocery shopping again for the rest of the year.  :th_lmao:

.....and I should get my Bay Area Market tote bag any day now!!!!!  LOL.


----------



## Melensdad

Cities will likely get hit first with any sort of strife, should it happen.  And very likely the lower income areas as desperate people start taking desperate actions.  Hopefully the supply chain does not crash.  Hopefully.  But when this virus hit China there was an entire world still producing food and other things.  If the world is infected and 'locked down' when who will be able to jump in and provide supply?  I realize that in any realistic scenario there will eventually be a vaccine and also a treatment.  So it should have an end date, or it should convert to seasonal.  But until that happens it is not unreasonable to presume that a whole lot of shit could go down.


Our spending has pretty much stopped except for "survival" oriented items which would include food.  But then again my daughter just spent $1100 (_on my credit card_  ) to pay for the upcoming Bar Exam.  But our discretionary spending has crashed as we are just not going anywhere, buying anything other than the afore mentioned food type items.

I did order a handful of the neoprene masks with replaceable N95 filters.  Plan to switch to those after the current batch of standard masks is depleted.  But really our spending has plummeted.  Its not like we were lacking before this mess started.  I have tools and toys aplenty and actually started to cull some of the unused and excess guns.  I'm looking to get rid of a vehicle or two.





TiredRetired said:


> .....and I should get my Bay Area Market tote bag any day now!!!!!  LOL.



Damn you


----------



## m1west

TiredRetired said:


> There are some really good deals on Amazon right now and some real rip off ones.  My wife has spent hours perusing that site with her iPad and ordering stuff that are good deals and reasonably priced.
> 
> I have lost total control of the budget and trying to reconcile monies spent to the spreadsheet I use to maintain the budget cash flow.  :th_lmao:  About an hour ago I just leaned back in the chair and decided to just let everything come and when the smoke clears try to reconcile the books then.  :th_lmao:
> 
> On the plus side, we have a ton of stuff coming in that will guarantee us supplies for much longer than 90 days now.
> 
> If things turn out to be not as bad as predicted, we shouldn't have to go grocery shopping again for the rest of the year.  :th_lmao:
> 
> .....and I should get my Bay Area Market tote bag any day now!!!!!  LOL.



Those things you just got at a bargain could cost a lot more or be impossible to find in the future. If you have the resources buy buy buy.


----------



## tiredretired

Melensdad said:


> Cities will likely get hit first with any sort of strife, should it happen.  And very likely the lower income areas as desperate people start taking desperate actions.  Hopefully the supply chain does not crash.  Hopefully.  But when this virus hit China there was an entire world still producing food and other things.  If the world is infected and 'locked down' when who will be able to jump in and provide supply?  I realize that in any realistic scenario there will eventually be a vaccine and also a treatment.  So it should have an end date, or it should convert to seasonal.  But until that happens it is not unreasonable to presume that a whole lot of shit could go down.
> 
> 
> Our spending has pretty much stopped except for "survival" oriented items which would include food.  But then again my daughter just spent $1100 (_on my credit card_  ) to pay for the upcoming Bar Exam.  But our discretionary spending has crashed as we are just not going anywhere, buying anything other than the afore mentioned food type items.
> 
> I did order a handful of the neoprene masks with replaceable N95 filters.  Plan to switch to those after the current batch of standard masks is depleted.  But really our spending has plummeted.  Its not like we were lacking before this mess started.  I have tools and toys aplenty and actually started to cull some of the unused and excess guns.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Damn you *



I'll post of picture when it comes in.  :th_lmao:


----------



## tiredretired

m1west said:


> Those things you just got at a bargain could cost a lot more or be impossible to find in the future. If you have the resources buy buy buy.



Some stuff was a rip off like 10 bucks for 1 can of Chef-boy-R-Dee and other stuff crazy cheap like a 24 can case of Campbell Pork & Beans for 21 bucks including shipping.  Sometimes the dollar stores have prices like this, but the expiration dates are usually tight.  For me, those porks and beans are one of those foods I can readily eat cold right out of the can while camping so we figured this was a must to have.  Don't try that with Dinty Moore Stew with all that solidified fat clinging to the potatoes and meat.  :th_lmao:


----------



## m1west

TiredRetired said:


> Some stuff was a rip off like 10 bucks for 1 can of Chef-boy-R-Dee and other stuff crazy cheap like a 24 can case of Campbell Pork & Beans for 21 bucks including shipping.  Sometimes the dollar stores have prices like this, but the expiration dates are usually tight.



Being in food processing ( canned food ) you can go passed the date for most things a couple of years but not the meat. One way to tell if a can of anything is bad is to put a straight edge across the seam, the lid should be flat or down in the middle with pretty much an even spacing all the way across. If you see the lid up in the middle it is bad throw it out.


----------



## EastTexFrank

We've been self quarantined for just over 3 weeks now and it hasn't been much of a hardship.  I was thinking that this might go on for another month and we'd still be okay but Dallas County just issued a "stay at home" until the 30th May.  Now by that time my stores will need to be replenished and where am I going to get the "stuff" to do that in two months?  

I may have to get my wife, who does all the grocery shopping now, to start a continuous topping up process instead of waiting until our stores are depleted.  

How are you guys going to handle it if it goes beyond 3 months?


----------



## Melensdad

EastTexFrank said:


> We've been self quarantined for just over 3 weeks now and it hasn't been much of a hardship.
> ...
> 
> *How are you guys going to handle it if it goes beyond 3 months?*



I think we can go for a solid 2 months.  But we decided to use the grocery on-line ordering system with curbside pick up to supplement things.  After a couple weeks of eating our supplies I am trying to buy enough to refill everything we already have eaten.  I have an order in the on-line grocery ordering system for pickup on Monday morning.  

Originally it was just supposed to be fresh fruits & veggies.  Looking to bring apples to dehydrate, a half dozen heads of cauliflower and broccoli, again to dry, bananas to make into chip...   Even ordered toilet paper that I don't need but is in stock and will extend our isolation ability. This may be our last grocery run?

My county is getting hit pretty hard with Covid19 now.  I looked at one of those maps and it shows my county has 313 cases with 5 deaths.  It's been growing fast and the hospitals still have rooms so not yet overwhelmed, yet.  Most of the cases are in the north, but my area has transitioned from an agricultural town to a commuter town with most residents working north and returning to town.   Clearly Covid will make it down to our isolated town.  Also ALL of our hospital beds are to the north of me.  There is 1 hospital in the county seat, the remainder of the hospitals in the county are in the northern 1/3 of the county.  

Our goal *is to ride out the summer with minimal contact *with the outside world.  


----


Now that said about staying INSIDE and ON THE PROPERTY we are planning a 2 day driving trip to Bloomington, IN to pack-up Melen's apartment and get the rest of her belongings (_except the furniture_).  Her lease expires June 15.  

Our trip may be later this week, the weather forecast looks good 

Her car is in a garage in Bloomington.  Her clothes, dishes, towels, bedding, and lots of decor are all still right were we left all of it.  When we brought her home we filled the truck bed, but its a compact pick up, and the cover was on the bed because it was raining.  *If the weather forecast holds we will go down Thursday and return home Friday.*  Her car with come home, packed with her belonging.  The truck cab will be packed.  The truck bed will be filled with boxes with the cap removed so we will fill the "air space" above the truck bed.  The goal is to get everything but the furniture.  _The furniture will require a van and I may just hire a moving company to go get that and put it into storage._

But we can make the trip without any human contact other than 1 stop at a gas station to refill the truck for the return trip.


----------



## EastTexFrank

Melensdad said:


> Our goal *is to ride out the summer with minimal contact *with the outside world.



Did you ever, in your wildest dreams, believe that we would be thinking along those lines.  

It is one thing to be semi-prepped for such a thing as we are experiencing but it is another thing to actually live through it.  

Stay safe Bob.


----------



## m1west

EastTexFrank said:


> Did you ever, in your wildest dreams, believe that we would be thinking along those lines.
> 
> It is one thing to be semi-prepped for such a thing as we are experiencing but it is another thing to actually live through it.
> 
> Stay safe Bob.



We are still eating out of the refrigerator and good there of a couple more weeks, canned food will last 3 months if its to scary to go get groceries. Right now there are 3 active cases in our county of 40,000 about 3 weeks ago there were 19 reported. There  are MRE for another 6 months if it were to come to that. Spirits are OK as there are plenty to do around here. What I am concerned about is what the world is going to be like if we are locked down that long. We all knew something like this could happen. Thats why we peeped for it. For the first few weeks it has been surreal but now the real is setting in. I am watching Como in NY right now. They are getting there ass kicked and you can see on his face and hear in his voice very real concern and fear. I am blessed to live in a rural area.


----------



## Melensdad

We have no MRE or pre-made freeze dried dinners _(like you'd find at a backpacking store or in those 'survival meal' buckets)_

So what we have are 2 freezers and 2 refrigerators, plus lots of canned and boxed good, plus some bulk dried goods.  

My strategy is to MINIMIZE outside contact.  *If we lock ourselves up on the property today we probably could hold out for 3 full months.*  But I'm hoping it does not come to a* total* lockdown.  


We made up our own family rules, maybe we are overly cautious:
I will NOT go INSIDE stores.  

I will on-line shop and do CURBSIDE Pick Up of GROCERIES if that remains safe and reasonable.  _We have been in our self-imposed lockdown for about a month and I've actually increased our food storage, at the same time we are eating very well.  But I did run out of ice-cream.  Not replacing that as the space can be used for something more nutritious, meat, pierogi, etc.  _​
I will go a DRIVE THRU bank and pharmacy only as required.  

I will NOT go to a DRIVE THRU fast food joint, curbside restaurant pick-up, etc.  We can cook our own food at zero risk.  

I will go to OUTDOOR farm and garden stands.

I will go to the GAS STATION for self-serve fuel.

I will order via ON-LINE sources and have the goods DELIVERED to my porch.

Ordered some supplies from Home Depot this morning.  Normally I'd just go to the store.  They have a "pick up in the store" option for on-line shoppers but that violates my first rule, and requires I actually go INSIDE the store.  

Now all that said, *I'm going to have to break my INSIDE rule* on Monday.  I am running low on Water Softener Salt.  Planning to pick up 8-10 bags of it Monday.  It sits outside the building but the cash register is 5 steps inside the door.   I have a 30 days supply and 10 bags will last me a 3 additional months.  

When it comes to going INSIDE a store, I guess I'd rather go SOONER than LATER.  The virus spreads every day.  It seems to DOUBLE every 3 days.   The longer I delay the greater the risk. _ If the risk is high Monday, it will be TWICE as high on Thursday. _  So the "now or never" strategy seems to apply to going into stores because I consider going into a store a "high risk" adventure but I consider using a self-service gas pump to be a very low risk task ... assuming you use some hand sanitizer or a disposable glove while operating the fuel pump.


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> We have no MRE or pre-made freeze dried dinners _(like you'd find at a backpacking store or in those 'survival meal' buckets)_
> 
> So what we have are 2 freezers and 2 refrigerators, plus lots of canned and boxed good, plus some bulk dried goods.
> 
> My strategy is to MINIMIZE outside contact.  *If we lock ourselves up on the property today we probably could hold out for 3 full months.*  But I'm hoping it does not come to a* total* lockdown.
> 
> 
> We made up our own family rules, maybe we are overly cautious:
> I will NOT go INSIDE stores.
> 
> I will on-line shop and do CURBSIDE Pick Up of GROCERIES if that remains safe and reasonable.  _We have been in our self-imposed lockdown for about a month and I've actually increased our food storage, at the same time we are eating very well.  But I did run out of ice-cream.  Not replacing that as the space can be used for something more nutritious, meat, pierogi, etc.  _​
> I will go a DRIVE THRU bank and pharmacy only as required.
> 
> I will NOT go to a DRIVE THRU fast food joint, curbside restaurant pick-up, etc.  We can cook our own food at zero risk.
> 
> I will go to OUTDOOR farm and garden stands.
> 
> I will go to the GAS STATION for self-serve fuel.
> 
> I will order via ON-LINE sources and have the goods DELIVERED to my porch.
> 
> Ordered some supplies from Home Depot this morning.  Normally I'd just go to the store.  They have a "pick up in the store" option for on-line shoppers but that violates my first rule, and requires I actually go INSIDE the store.
> 
> Now all that said, *I'm going to have to break my INSIDE rule* on Monday.  I am running low on Water Softener Salt.  Planning to pick up 8-10 bags of it Monday.  It sits outside the building but the cash register is 5 steps inside the door.   I have a 30 days supply and 10 bags will last me a 3 additional months.
> 
> When it comes to going INSIDE a store, I guess I'd rather go SOONER than LATER.  The virus spreads every day.  It seems to DOUBLE every 3 days.   The longer I delay the greater the risk. _ If the risk is high Monday, it will be TWICE as high on Thursday. _  So the "now or never" strategy seems to apply to going into stores because I consider going into a store a "high risk" adventure but I consider using a self-service gas pump to be a very low risk task ... assuming you use some hand sanitizer or a disposable glove while operating the fuel pump.



Basically doing the same, except over Easter holiday I have to do shutdown  at international paper. No one other than the plant rep will be there but still the virus is invisible and could be on anything. We will wear gloves and masks washing hands often. No going out for lunch we will bring our own and eat outside. Last time I went to the grocery store last week I went early and wore the masks and gloves, put the groceries in the bed of the truck then took off mask and gloves before sanitizing my hands and entering my truck. At home took groceries to garage sanitizing anything that had to go to the fridge or freezer then de bagged the rest and left it in the garage for a week. Same with the mail. Also have go out shoes that stay outside.


----------



## bczoom

We don't have curbside pickup.  Mrs. Zoom used Amazon/Whole foods and got us some perishables yesterday.  Damn expensive but we don't have to go to the store.

I've stayed home for the last 3 weeks sans 1 trip to the beer store.  May have to go again soon.  Mask and gloves will be worn.


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> ...Also have go out shoes that stay outside.


We do that too.  

And a *jacket* that hangs in the garage and is only used when venturing out into the real world too.






bczoom said:


> I've stayed home for the last 3 weeks sans 1 trip to the beer store.  May have to go again soon.  Mask and gloves will be worn.



I'm out of all the cheap bourbon.  But I have a couple dozen rare bourbons in the $50 to $150 price range.  Normally bottles like that can last me for several years, drinking an ounce or two per year out of each bottle.  Under quarantine the rules change.  They have become my after dinner sipping drinks.  Guess its better to enjoy them while I can.


----------



## EastTexFrank

Melensdad said:


> I'm out of all the cheap bourbon.  But I have a couple dozen rare bourbons in the $50 to $150 price range.  Normally bottles like that can last me for several years, drinking an ounce or two per year out of each bottle.  Under quarantine the rules change.  They have become my after dinner sipping drinks.  Guess its better to enjoy them while I can.



That's the decision that I made too.  I have perhaps a dozen bottles of Scotch in the 18 to 25 year old range.  I suddenly asked myself, "What the heck am I saving them for".  So, I opened a 18-year old Glenlivet and about every 3rd evening I have a couple of glasses.  In between I drink the "cheaper" stuff and I still have quite a few of those.  Has any one else's alcohol consumption gone up during this quarantine?  I used to be a one toddy a night guy, very seldom two.  The other night I caught myself pouring a third one.  I can't be that bored.  

Basically we take the same precautions as the rest of you but we very seldom leave the property.  About every 10 days my wife goes to the store for fresh produce and a few other things and they are all sensibly handled when she gets home.  End of story.  I am starting to worry about replenishing my stash though.  My wife is one of those responsible, respectful shoppers.  If she needs something she'll get one and leave the rest for other people.  Me? I used to be, "If I need one I better get two.  Ah hell, get three and not have to worry about it".  I'm working on her that if the store policy says only two cans, get two cans not one.  We'll see.


----------



## Jim_S RIP

Melensdad said:


> I'm out of all the cheap bourbon.  But I have a couple dozen rare bourbons in the $50 to $150 price range.  Normally bottles like that can last me for several years, drinking an ounce or two per year out of each bottle.  Under quarantine the rules change.  They have become my after dinner sipping drinks.  Guess its better to enjoy them while I can.





EastTexFrank said:


> That's the decision that I made too.  I have perhaps a dozen bottles of Scotch in the 18 to 25 year old range.  I suddenly asked myself, "What the heck am I saving them for".  So, I opened a 18-year old Glenlivet and about every 3rd evening I have a couple of glasses.  In between I drink the "cheaper" stuff and I still have quite a few of those.  Has any one else's alcohol consumption gone up during this quarantine?  I used to be a one toddy a night guy, very seldom two.  The other night I caught myself pouring a third one.  I can't be that bored.




FYI -


----------



## Melensdad

:th_lmao:


----------



## m1west

The longer we are on lockdown the better we learn how to make things last longer. one example is we used to go through a roll of paper towels almost every day. Now they last 3  days with one simple change to using dish towels to dry your hands after washing them. Another is around 6pm I have a bowl of granola as it keeps me regular, instead of a 3/4 full bowl I go with 2/3 full and get another bowl out of each bag. I haven't shaved in 3 weeks, it started off because of the last trip to the work cabin I burned the side of my face when I took the radiator cap off of the Suzuki to add coolant now, I call it the COVID beard. I hardly use any gasoline or diesel. The electrical bill may be increasing due to being home more. Maybe? The Wife has been collecting Dandelion for salad and to put on sandwich as my new rule is if you can't cook it don't get it from the store. The weather has improved to where no heat or cooling is required. The work I am doing are scheduled shutdowns that are on weekends and holidays in the field so more money is made doing less work and the shop is un affected. Prices are dropping on everything even food. Now if this shit will disappear soon so things can go back to normal and my house will not become worthless, its been a nice little vacation.


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> The longer we are on lockdown the better we learn how to make things last longer. . .



Agreed and very good point 

My daughter would drink 4-5 bottles of water a day, despite the fact that we have a Reverse Osmosis water system.  I'll admit that I would grab a few too.  Now we both use the vacuum bottles that have been hiding in the back of the pantry for a few years.  In fact we got to the point that we were draining the R.O. dry so we now are using a PUR pitcher in the refrigerator filled with well water.

I've got some ribeye steaks in the freezer but we are doing a lot more dinners with 99 cent a pound chicken thighs and $2.49/# pork.  I think we've baked 4 or 5 loaves of fresh bread.  

The neglected garden, is coming back together, and honestly if not for Covid would probably still be neglected because we probably would have just left it.

Paper towels last us about 3 days too!  I'm surprise by that.  We have a bunch of Clorox Wipes but even those are now lasting about 2 weeks per tub because we are being careful with their use.  Amazing how much can be cleaned with a kitchen sponge and a kitchen towel!!!

And we are not just buying stuff because we are not going to the store 

We are actually thinking about what we need, and buying what we need without getting other stuff.  Safe bet that if I would have gone to Tractor Supply to pick up the fuel filter I just ordered from Amazon that I would have walked out of the Tractor Supply with some beef jerky, or red licorice, or some cheap tool from their sale bin (_or all of those things + some dog toys_).  But because I just needed the fuel filter I just ordered that and nothing else.


----------



## Melensdad

And now meat prices will probably be going up 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...8fnh5STd7gvYA0_fbE_FIBQhTX8KHgJxBde5fnh6Fp56c



> Smithfield shutting U.S. pork plant indefinitely, *warns of meat shortages* during pandemic
> Tom Polansek
> 
> 
> CHICAGO (Reuters) - Smithfield Foods, the world’s biggest pork processor, said on Sunday it will shut a U.S. plant indefinitely due to a rash of coronavirus cases among employees and warned the country was moving “perilously close to the edge” in supplies for grocers.
> 
> Slaughterhouse shutdowns are disrupting the U.S. food supply chain, crimping availability of meat at retail stores and leaving farmers without outlets for their livestock.
> 
> Smithfield extended the closure of its Sioux Falls, South Dakota, plant after initially saying it would idle temporarily for cleaning. *The facility is one of the nation’s largest pork processing facilities, representing 4% to 5% of U.S. pork production*...
> 
> ... *Other major U.S. meat and poultry processors, including Tyson Foods Inc (TSN.N), Cargill Inc [CARG.UL] and JBS USA [JBS.UL] have already idled plants in other states.*


----------



## tiredretired

m1west said:


> The longer we are on lockdown the better we learn how to make things last longer. one example is we used to go through a roll of paper towels almost every day. Now they last 3  days with one simple change to using dish towels to dry your hands after washing them. Another is around 6pm I have a bowl of granola as it keeps me regular, instead of a 3/4 full bowl I go with 2/3 full and get another bowl out of each bag. I haven't shaved in 3 weeks, it started off because of the last trip to the work cabin I burned the side of my face when I took the radiator cap off of the Suzuki to add coolant now, I call it the COVID beard. I hardly use any gasoline or diesel. The electrical bill may be increasing due to being home more. Maybe? The Wife has been collecting Dandelion for salad and to put on sandwich as my new rule is if you can't cook it don't get it from the store. The weather has improved to where no heat or cooling is required. The work I am doing are scheduled shutdowns that are on weekends and holidays in the field so more money is made doing less work and the shop is un affected. Prices are dropping on everything even food. Now if this shit will disappear soon so things can go back to normal and my house will not become worthless, its been a nice little vacation.





Melensdad said:


> Agreed and very good point
> 
> My daughter would drink 4-5 bottles of water a day, despite the fact that we have a Reverse Osmosis water system.  I'll admit that I would grab a few too.  Now we both use the vacuum bottles that have been hiding in the back of the pantry for a few years.  In fact we got to the point that we were draining the R.O. dry so we now are using a PUR pitcher in the refrigerator filled with well water.
> 
> I've got some ribeye steaks in the freezer but we are doing a lot more dinners with 99 cent a pound chicken thighs and $2.49/# pork.  I think we've baked 4 or 5 loaves of fresh bread.
> 
> The neglected garden, is coming back together, and honestly if not for Covid would probably still be neglected because we probably would have just left it.
> 
> Paper towels last us about 3 days too!  I'm surprise by that.  We have a bunch of Clorox Wipes but even those are now lasting about 2 weeks per tub because we are being careful with their use.  Amazing how much can be cleaned with a kitchen sponge and a kitchen towel!!!
> 
> And we are not just buying stuff because we are not going to the store
> 
> We are actually thinking about what we need, and buying what we need without getting other stuff.  Safe bet that if I would have gone to Tractor Supply to pick up the fuel filter I just ordered from Amazon that I would have walked out of the Tractor Supply with some beef jerky, or red licorice, or some cheap tool from their sale bin (_or all of those things + some dog toys_).  But because I just needed the fuel filter I just ordered that and nothing else.



We have noticed the exact same things.  A roll of TP lasts us two weeks. We are hardly using our paper towels and really only use Clorox wipes when we clean down Amazon orders or groceries.  Hand sanitizer is holding up well.

We are cooking bigger recipes and eating leftovers for 2,3 even 4 days in the case of a big batch of Beef Stew I made last week.  Costs per meal drop correspondingly.  

I told my wife the other day this is all good practice, but I am re-thinking that. This may be more than practice if those stories are true about food shortages.

I may need to make a meat run this week just because.


----------



## EastTexFrank

As long as Mineola Packing keeps its retail sales open, we're ok on the meat front.  It did close it for two weeks while it concentrated on servicing its commercial clients but once they caught up, they opened back up to the public.  

Well, I may have to leave the homestead for the first time in a month to go to Tractor Supply.  I don't really NEED to go but while there is the opportunity I may as well use it.  They are operating a curb side service but not for all the things that I need.  I can get the dog stuff but not the lawn weed killer and the "O" rings to fix the spray gun.  I may just get a new spray gun and get in and out of there fast.  

My wife went in to the Post Office and to CVS today and said that both places were empty of customers.  She said that while she was in the PO car park a millennial drove in and got out wearing flip flops, shorts and a halter top, no mask and no gloves.  God save us for these young idiots surely won't.  

Oh, we have had 5 cases in our County for the past 4 days.


----------



## Melensdad

EastTexFrank said:


> Oh, we have had 5 cases in our County for the past 4 days.



We have 744 cases, 25 deaths (as of this morning) in my county.  I believe all the deaths are from the north/urban areas and the vast majority of the cases are in the north part of the county.


----------



## m1west

TiredRetired said:


> We have noticed the exact same things.  A roll of TP lasts us two weeks. We are hardly using our paper towels and really only use Clorox wipes when we clean down Amazon orders or groceries.  Hand sanitizer is holding up well.
> 
> We are cooking bigger recipes and eating leftovers for 2,3 even 4 days in the case of a big batch of Beef Stew I made last week.  Costs per meal drop correspondingly.
> 
> I told my wife the other day this is all good practice, but I am re-thinking that. This may be more than practice if those stories are true about food shortages.
> 
> I may need to make a meat run this week just because.



The longer it goes the chance for food shortages become real. When a bunch of truckers come down with it and die ( Truckers are known for there healthy lifestyle right ) they won't go to work either. That is when it really gets bad. Local delivery drivers don't always drive the same truck every day, a little like Russian roulette.


----------



## Melensdad

Well we are going to start dipping into the POWDERED MILK or perhaps switching to the small SHELF STABLE milk.  Our fresh milk supply is down the last few ounces.

We can get it, its obviously available.  We are simply making the choice not to go to the store because the county is reporting a lot of cases.  It's obvious there are a lot of uncounted cases.  So why go to the store if we don't have to.

The Indiana Covid reporting site stopped reporting cases in my county on Saturday.   At that time *my county had 744 cases confirmed, 25 deaths.*  2nd hardest hit county in our state (_thanks to our geographic proximity to Chicago_).  42,489 tests Statewide, 7928 confirmed cases with 343 deaths.  Most of the cases are in the greater Indianapolis area the my county in 2nd place (I hope we don't try harder) and then the area around Notre Dame/South Bend, IN coming in a distant 3rd, followed by Ft Wayne in 4th place.  Many of our other counties have less than a couple dozen cases per county.

We should get the next update at NOON/Eastern today?


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> Well we are going to start dipping into the POWDERED MILK or perhaps switching to the small SHELF STABLE milk.  Our fresh milk supply is down the last few ounces.
> 
> We can get it, its obviously available.  We are simply making the choice not to go to the store because the county is reporting a lot of cases.  It's obvious there are a lot of uncounted cases.  So why go to the store if we don't have to.
> 
> The Indiana Covid reporting site stopped reporting cases in my county on Saturday.   At that time *my county had 744 cases confirmed, 25 deaths.*  2nd hardest hit county in our state (_thanks to our geographic proximity to Chicago_).  42,489 tests Statewide, 7928 confirmed cases with 343 deaths.  Most of the cases are in the greater Indianapolis area the my county in 2nd place (I hope we don't try harder) and then the area around Notre Dame/South Bend, IN coming in a distant 3rd, followed by Ft Wayne in 4th place.  Many of our other counties have less than a couple dozen cases per county.
> 
> We should get the next update at NOON/Eastern today?



I don't blame you, our county has 4 and I haven't been in a store up town in 2 weeks. We have a few more days of milk left before I have to make that decision myself. What is the population of your county? We are right at 40,000.


----------



## tiredretired

m1west said:


> The longer it goes the chance for food shortages become real. When a bunch of truckers come down with it and die ( Truckers are known for there healthy lifestyle right ) they won't go to work either. That is when it really gets bad. Local delivery drivers don't always drive the same truck every day, a little like Russian roulette.



Yeah, good point.  I am trying to figure out the best route to take on the meats.  

I'm thinking more ground beef is the best option to take.  Very versatile.  Throw in some ground pork as well for good measure.


----------



## EastTexFrank

Pretty much still good on everything except tomatoes and lettuce.  I think that we can do without those for a while.  

I don't know how the County is going to hold up after the storms of last night.  Power lines are still down, downed trees are blocking roads, huge property damage all over the place.  The news is reporting the storms in Louisiana and Mississippi but they started in East Texas and headed east.  We lost power and I had to dig out the generators to keep the fridges and freezers working.  Only one of the buggers would start. I'm going to have to take care of that.  Oh how I regretted canceling that whole house generator installation back in the middle of March.  When we get released from house arrest that will become a top priority.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

We've barely left the yard in the past 3 weeks only going out for groceries. My decided that this morning was the day for another grocery run at our wholesale club. It's a smaller version of Costco. No line up. She was in and out in 40 minutes.


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> What is the population of your county? We are right at 40,000.



North of the county seat the population is probably 250,000

South of the county seat the population is approximately 30,000

So the north half and the south half are very very different.  And you can pretty much draw a straight line across the county to divide URBAN from RURAL






EastTexFrank said:


> Pretty much still good on everything except tomatoes and lettuce.  I think that we can do without those for a while.


Fresh stuff will be gone here quickly.  We have some tomatoes, lots of potatoes and onions.  Some apples.  After that it's dehydrated, canned or freeze dried.  And we are cooking with freeze dried onions, leeks, carrots, peppers.   Plus snacking on dehydrated banana chips and other fruits.

The freezer is PACKED with beef, chicken and pork.  We used the on-line grocery service to refill, they put it in our trunk.  It is all vacuum sealed and organized by type of animal.

We are more creative with meals.  Chicken noodle soup is made from canned chicken because we have plenty of that.  We reserve the portioned chicken thighs for roasting, sautéing, etc.  I have canned beef cubes, canned ground been and canned ground pork.  Plus TVP taco and TVP beef.  The TVP, if it gets used, will be mixed with some fresh before we get too low on the real cow or pig products to stretch those if necessary.

My sincere hope is that we get through this mess and can donate some of the excess to a food pantry.  But I honestly see this lasting for a while.






EastTexFrank said:


> I don't know how the County is going to hold up after the storms of last night.  Power lines are still down, downed trees are blocking roads, huge property damage all over the place.  The news is reporting the storms in Louisiana and Mississippi but they started in East Texas and headed east.  We lost power and I had to dig out the generators to keep the fridges and freezers working.  Only one of the buggers would start. I'm going to have to take care of that. * Oh how I regretted canceling that whole house generator installation back in the middle of March*.  When we get released from house arrest that will become a top priority.










NorthernRedneck said:


> She was in and out in 40 minutes.


Like when the vikings raided a small village and pillaged its food!


----------



## Melensdad

Just got our state update.

In my county alone, 1 new death, 52 new confirmed cases.  Up to 796 confirmed cases in the county.  Seems to be spreading around the county a bit more, as would be expected here since many who live in the rural south travel to the north to work.  So we are expecting more and more cases in the south county as this progresses.  Still, if you live in this county the south is by far the safest area to live, and folks like me who are outside of either of the two towns in the south county area are probably very safe ... until we venture into town.  

My brother says there are still empty ICU and regular beds available at the local hospitals.  The hospital group for which he is employed is reporting to be at less than 70% capacity.  So the hospitals in the county are in good shape, regular beds, ICU beds and even ventilators are available.  That seems to be true in every part of the state of Indiana, _with the possible exception of the city of Indianapolis_.  I simply don't know their situation, but they have the largest outbreak.

In the next county south of me, which is all rural:   1 new confirmed case.  27 total cases.


----------



## tiredretired

Melensdad said:


> Just got our state update.
> 
> In my county alone, 1 new death, 52 new confirmed cases.  Up to 796 confirmed cases in the county.  Seems to be spreading around the county a bit more, as would be expected here since many who live in the rural south travel to the north to work.  So we are expecting more and more cases in the south county as this progresses.  Still, if you live in this county the south is by far the safest area to live, and folks like me who are outside of either of the two towns in the south county area are probably very safe ... until we venture into town.
> 
> My brother says there are still empty ICU and regular beds available at the local hospitals.  The hospital group for which he is employed is reporting to be at less than 70% capacity.  So the hospitals in the county are in good shape, regular beds, ICU beds and even ventilators are available.  That seems to be true in every part of the state of Indiana, _with the possible exception of the city of Indianapolis_.  I simply don't know their situation, but they have the largest outbreak.
> 
> In the next county south of me, which is all rural:   1 new confirmed case.  27 total cases.



You have more confirmed cases in your county alone than in the entire state of Vermont (barely).  We currently have 728 confirmed with 28 deaths.  Population 667,000 largely rural.  

At one time we were supposed to be the first state to peak the curve.  The way things change, I am not sure if that is even true anymore.

All temp overflow hospitals built are not being needed or used so far.


----------



## m1west

It doesn't seem to be spreading around in the county, the few we are getting came from outside county contact or an infected person visiting. Last time I was up town people seems to be getting complacent, I hope that doesn't bite us in the ass. Another theory is Ca. got it early like November 2019 and hospitalizations/deaths were classified as pneumonia or Flu?? Lots of Chinese in Ca. so who the hell knows. I think if they do antibody testing they could possibly tell.


----------



## EastTexFrank

Melensdad said:


>



Thank you Bob.   

As you know, I've been procrastinating about a whole house generator for years, making all kinds of excuses to myself for not doing it.  This time I made all the arrangements and it was supposed to be in and running within the first two weeks of March.  Well, with this pandemic thing and the stock market going up and down 2,000 points in a day, I decided to cancel and wait for things to settle back down so I could see where everything was going.  That turned out to be not the best decision of my life but you make decisions based on the information that you have at the time and at the time that seemed like the best decision.  

I WILL be joining you in the emergency generator owners club soon though.


----------



## EastTexFrank

As Melensdad alluded to, we are all locked up at home to prevent the spread of COVOD-19 and to stop our medical facilities from being overwhelmed.  We have 5 cases in our county and even our little regional hospital isn't overwhelmed by that.  The hotspot in East Texas is Tyler, in Smith County, just 30 miles to the south of us.  Last time I looked, they said that they had 79 cases and 1500 beds available for virus patients.  That doesn't sound as if it is being overwhelmed either.  Now, I admit that other places in Texas have bigger problems with it but certainly not around here.  So why am I locked up and my community shut down?  

It's got to the point that I don't know what to think.  I certainly don't trust the media for information and I've always been skeptical of "experts".  Dr. Fauci seems to be making the most of his "15 minutes of fame".  Someone needs to tell "the gnome" just to shut up now and again.  I know that Trump can't do it at this point but I would be sorely tempted to fire his ass.


----------



## m1west

EastTexFrank said:


> As Melensdad alluded to, we are all locked up at home to prevent the spread of COVOD-19 and to stop our medical facilities from being overwhelmed.  We have 5 cases in our county and even our little regional hospital isn't overwhelmed by that.  The hotspot in East Texas is Tyler, in Smith County, just 30 miles to the south of us.  Last time I looked, they said that they had 79 cases and 1500 beds available for virus patients.  That doesn't sound as if it is being overwhelmed either.  Now, I admit that other places in Texas have bigger problems with it but certainly not around here.  So why am I locked up and my community shut down?
> 
> It's got to the point that I don't know what to think.  I certainly don't trust the media for information and I've always been skeptical of "experts".  Dr. Fauci seems to be making the most of his "15 minutes of fame".  Someone needs to tell "the gnome" just to shut up now and again.  I know that Trump can't do it at this point but I would be sorely tempted to fire his ass.



Things are starting to get a little wonkey, I get that Fauci is an expert on viruses but he has been wrong on a few things. Also President Trump was elected and Fauci was appointed. His opinion is valued but he is not the President and needs to stop acting like he is. At this point he should be briefing Pence or Trump for them to deliver the message, then sit down and be quiet. When I have hired experts to help me out with tasks we normally do not do, They don't try taking over my company or circumventing me and go directly to the customer.


----------



## tiredretired

m1west said:


> Things are starting to get a little wonkey, I get that Fauci is an expert on viruses but he has been* wrong on a few things. *Also President Trump was elected and Fauci was appointed. His opinion is valued but he is not the President and needs to stop acting like he is. At this point he should be briefing Pence or Trump for them to deliver the message, then sit down and be quiet. When I have hired experts to help me out with tasks we normally do not do, They don't try taking over my company or circumventing me and go directly to the customer.



A few?  The son of a bitch has been on a roll since the start of all this.  Nothing to worry about he says back in January, right before our POTUS shut down traveling to China and Europe.

DO NOT WEAR MASKS OF ANY KIND, THEY DO NOT WORK, he says while 330.000.000 Americans are wondering why in hell do health care workers wear them if they do not work. WTF???

Trump did not act quickly enough he says on his favorite channel, China News Network forgetting Trump was the first in the world to shut down these countries while the rest of them were partying in Spain, kissing Chinaman in Italy and listening to the stupid Dems chant Russia, Russia, Russia.

Look it up, it all fucking true.


----------



## m1west

TiredRetired said:


> A few?  The son of a bitch has been on a roll since the start of all this.  Nothing to worry about he says back in January, right before our POTUS shut down traveling to China and Europe.
> 
> DO NOT WEAR MASKS OF ANY KIND, THEY DO NOT WORK, he says while 330.000.000 Americans are wondering why in hell do health care workers wear them if they do not work. WTF???
> 
> Trump did not act quickly enough he says on his favorite channel, China News Network forgetting Trump was the first in the world to shut down these countries while the rest of them were partying in Spain, kissing Chinaman in Italy and listening to the stupid Dems chant Russia, Russia, Russia.
> 
> Look it up, it all fucking true.



So I guess we agree Fauci needs go.:th_lmao:


----------



## tiredretired

Yeah, but Trump just said he is not firing him.  All about the optics I guess.


----------



## pirate_girl

I don't trust either one of those doctors, period.


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> And now meat prices will probably be going up
> 
> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...8fnh5STd7gvYA0_fbE_FIBQhTX8KHgJxBde5fnh6Fp56c
> 
> ​



Now its not just Smithfield foods, Many beef, chicken and pork processors are having problems with workers walking off the job. Workers and unions are siting safety concerns and a lack of PPE as the woking conditions are elbow to elbow and there have been positive tests and at least one dead worker. Now another question besides the obvious where we gong to get meat from, is can corona virus live on the meat and if so how long? Cooking should kill it but what temperature?


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

TiredRetired said:


> Yeah, but Trump just said he is not firing him.  All about the optics I guess.




He's a tool of the Democrats and stands to make money of this pandemic:


https://nationalfile.com/president-...fauci-has-a-100-million-conflict-of-interest/


#FireFauci


----------



## Bannedjoe

I know that in the days of old, beef was cut and sliced up and dried/cured in a number of ways to preserve it.
Also, nowadays, beef is hung refrigerated for around ten days to age before processing.

What if a guy slaughtered some beef, and immediately ground it all up into burger?
Would it be edible/pallatible?

Just asking for a friend.


----------



## JimVT

yes


----------



## EastTexFrank

JimVT said:


> yes



What he said.    

My only question would be, "What would you do with 500 pounds of hamburger?".


----------



## Bannedjoe

EastTexFrank said:


> What he said.
> 
> My only question would be, "What would you do with 500 pounds of hamburger?".



I think if I were my friend and I was really hungry, I might take a calf so as not to have to worry about having to store and process so much. 

It's just that I've read that beef that isn't given at least a week to hang doesn't have the flavor we'd all like, and is tough.


----------



## tiredretired

EastTexFrank said:


> What he said.
> 
> My only question would be, "What would you do with 500 pounds of hamburger?".



A couple of years ago a good friend and fishing partner of mine shot a "small" moose up in Essex county in Vermont (that is way up in the sticks where the men are men and the sheep are damn glad of it)  that weighed in at around a thousand pounds.  He had most of it ground up in hamburger.  He said that was the only way his wife would eat it.  :th_lmao:   I don't think he got 500 pounds of it, but he got enough to give me 20 pounds of it as a gift and he bought a huge upright freezer to store it in.  

All vac sealed and I do believe he still some plenty.  So, yes, it can be done.  :th_lmao:

BTW, if you've ever had a nice juicy moose burger grilled on the Weber you will never want to go back to beef.  It is also incredible in meat pies.  The old French Canadian way, eh.

I have never won the lottery draw for a moose hunting permit so never had a chance to get my own.


----------



## Bannedjoe

TiredRetired said:


> A couple of years ago a good friend and fishing partner of mine shot a "small" moose up in Essex county in Vermont (that is way up in the sticks where the men are men and the sheep are damn glad of it)  that weighed in at around a thousand pounds.  He had most of it ground up in hamburger.  He said that was the only way his wife would eat it.  :th_lmao:   I don't think he got 500 pounds of it, but he got enough to give me 20 pounds of it as a gift and he bought a huge upright freezer to store it in.
> 
> All vac sealed and I do believe he still some plenty.  So, yes, it can be done.  :th_lmao:
> 
> BTW, if you've ever had a nice juicy moose burger grilled on the Weber you will never want to go back to beef.  It is also incredible in meat pies.  The old French Canadian way, eh.
> 
> I have never won the lottery draw for a moose hunting permit so never had a chance to get my own.



There's lots of rabbits in this area, tons of free ranging cattle, a few deer, but I've never seen any Meese.


----------



## tiredretired

Bannedjoe said:


> There's lots of rabbits in this area, tons of free ranging cattle, a few deer, but I've never seen any Meese.



I was doing a project years ago at a ski area, Mad River Glen is the name.  We were yanking 15KV cable underground in 5" conduit and I was running the tugger machine.  We had a pause in the pull so I turned around to grab my smokes (that makes it over 30 years ago, lol) and there was a bull moose standing there staring at me and he must of weighed 1500 pounds if he weighed an ounce.  They are long legged as hell so they are tall.  We stared at each other for a moment, he snorted and wandered off.  

He was one big SOB I can tell you that.  His rack looked like it was 10 feet wide.  :th_lmao:


----------



## Jim_S RIP

TiredRetired said:


> I was doing a project years ago at a ski area, Mad River Glen is the name.  We were yanking 15KV cable underground in 5" conduit and I was running the tugger machine.  We had a pause in the pull so I turned around to grab my smokes (that makes it over 30 years ago, lol) and there was a bull moose standing there staring at me and he must of weighed 1500 pounds if he weighed an ounce.  They are long legged as hell so they are tall.  We stared at each other for a moment, he snorted and wandered off.
> 
> He was one big SOB I can tell you that.  His rack looked like it was 10 feet wide.  :th_lmao:



Did he say if he wanted a smoke or did he just like watching you work?


----------



## tiredretired

jim slagle said:


> Did he say if he wanted a smoke or did he just like watching you work?



I was running the Greenlee tugger which means I was not working very hard.  :th_lmao:


----------



## EastTexFrank

One of the reasons we have 3 freezers outside is that every year we used to share a buffalo with friends up in Dallas.  When we actively raised cattle we raised one steer for personal use.  Typically, we would take him to the packing plant weighing 1200# to 1400# on the hoof.  Also typically we'd get back about 500# of boneless meat.  All that meat takes up some freezer space. 

You don't need to hang meat but when you hang it in a cooler what happens is that the meat fiber begins to break down the longer you let it hang making it more tender.  Also, it loses water and that intensifies the flavor of the meat but it also loses weight.  That's the theory anyway.  

The guys at the packing plant once told me that there is a minimum time to hang meat, if you go that route.  I can't remember what it was but it could well be the 10 days you mentioned.  Also, the temperature and humidity have to be controlled pretty closely.


----------



## tiredretired

Didn't Rocky Balboa use hanging meat as a punching bag?  I would think that would tenderize it as well.  :th_lmao:

After tagging and registering a white tail deer, you always hang it in the garage for 10 days.  You hope and pray the weather does not warm up above 50 in the garage or you could be in trouble or you just cut your hang time short and start cutting.


----------



## Bannedjoe

TiredRetired said:


> Didn't Rocky Balboa use hanging meat as a punching bag?  I would think that would tenderize it as well.  :th_lmao:
> 
> After tagging and registering a white tail deer, you always hang it in the garage for 10 days.  You hope and pray the weather does not warm up above 50 in the garage or you could be in trouble or you just cut your hang time short and start cutting.



Unfortunately, walk-in coolers don't just happen, and by the time one might have to consider taking a free range beef, the temps might be quite high.
But at least they're free, right?
FREE range cattle.
There's even signs out here that say that!


----------



## tiredretired

Bannedjoe said:


> Unfortunately, walk-in coolers don't just happen, and by the time one might have to consider taking a free range beef, the temps might be quite high.
> But at least they're free, right?
> FREE range cattle.
> There's even signs out here that say that!



Absolutely.  I gotta think in a SHTF situation, free range cattle quickly become an endangered species.  The way people seem to panic nowadays, I am surprised it already hasn't happened.  People shooting them, dragging them home and then saying, now what?


----------



## m1west

TiredRetired said:


> Absolutely.  I gotta think in a SHTF situation, free range cattle quickly become an endangered species.  The way people seem to panic nowadays, I am surprised it already hasn't happened.  People shooting them, dragging them home and then saying, now what?



We already had some farm animals stolen my area. I dont know how they mark them now days, but once there gone it might be hard to check the serial #


----------



## tiredretired

m1west said:


> We already had some farm animals stolen my area. I dont know how they mark them now days, but once there gone it might be hard to check the serial #



Rustling cattle and or livestock used to be a hanging offense along with stealing ones horse.  

In a SHTF situation, that would need to come back in a big way, IMHO.  Gotta keep it real.


----------



## JimVT

the cattle here can't be sold without the branding paperwork and more are branding them.


----------



## Bannedjoe

TiredRetired said:


> Rustling cattle and or livestock used to be a hanging offense along with stealing ones horse.
> 
> In a SHTF situation, that would need to come back in a big way, IMHO.  Gotta keep it real.



I would tend to think in a SHTF scenario, all bets are off anyways.


----------



## EastTexFrank

There are quite a few absentee ranchers in East Texas, people who work elsewhere and come to the farm/ranch on the week-end.  Rustling is one of those problems that seems to go in cycles, somewhat depending on beef prices.  They move in to an area for a week or maybe two and then are gone and you won't have any trouble for 10 or 15 years or so.  In all these years we've only ever been troubled once and they got about a dozen cows.  

I'd have no problem with shooting them but that's just me.


----------



## Bannedjoe

EastTexFrank said:


> There are quite a few absentee ranchers in East Texas, people who work elsewhere and come to the farm/ranch on the week-end.  Rustling is one of those problems that seems to go in cycles, somewhat depending on beef prices.  They move in to an area for a week or maybe two and then are gone and you won't have any trouble for 10 or 15 years or so.  In all these years we've only ever been troubled once and they got about a dozen cows.
> 
> I'd have no problem with shooting them but that's just me.



Fortunately, that point hasn't arrived.
But there's just shittones of them out here everywhere.
I'm relatively certain they wouldn't miss a newborn calf that hadn't been tagged or branded yet.


----------



## EastTexFrank

Bannedjoe said:


> Fortunately, that point hasn't arrived.
> But there's just shittones of them out here everywhere.
> I'm relatively certain they wouldn't miss a newborn calf that hadn't been tagged or branded yet.



Don't worry, the thought has occurred to me too.    :th_lmao:


----------



## Melensdad

Pet dogs and cats are edible too.  

But we have not gotten to that point (yet)


----------



## m1west

I think that unless a second wave comes that is bad as the first we are going to come out the other side in a few weeks. Now what the other side looks like for a while is up for debate.
Its most likely going to be a year or more before people feel comfortable to go to businesses that are close quarters, and thats if it doesn't flare up causing more shut downs. Even when everything is open I'm going to give it some time before going to sit down restaurants, air travel etc.


----------



## tiredretired

I think I will be able to basically go about my business much as before with one exception.  I think it will be a while before I step foot into a restaurant.  

The last time for me was March 7 and the way the waitress was handling the coffee mugs by the top and not the handle at the diner was not good.  Yup, gonna be a while for that with me.


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> ...Its most likely going to be a year or more before people feel comfortable to go to businesses that are close quarters, and thats if it doesn't flare up causing more shut downs. Even when everything is open I'm going to give it some time before going to sit down restaurants, air travel etc.


Not sure that many SPORTS will return to 'normal' without a vaccine.

Close quarters where bodies easily touch:  Wrestling, Football, Soccer, Fencing, Basketball, Rugby etc are all problematic.

Sports with a bit more distance yachting, cricket, bowling, tennis, golf may be able to recover sooner, but without an audience?


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> Not sure that many SPORTS will return to 'normal' without a vaccine.
> 
> Close quarters where bodies easily touch:  Wrestling, Football, Soccer, Fencing, Basketball, Rugby etc are all problematic.
> 
> Sports with a bit more distance yachting, cricket, bowling, tennis, golf may be able to recover sooner, but without an audience?



Without the Vaccine there'll be localized flare ups and that means no normal until we do. Some Manufacturing businesses will come back, entertainment, travel, sports, restaurants etc will hurt, that said what is the economy going to look like with 1/2 the country working and the other 1/2 re inventing itself. What is my home going to be worth. I for one would like to be tested to see if I had it and don't have to worry or if I didn't and still need to worry.


----------



## Bannedjoe

Melensdad said:


> Not sure that many SPORTS will return to 'normal' without a vaccine.
> 
> Close quarters where bodies easily touch:  Wrestling, Football, Soccer, Fencing, Basketball, Rugby etc are all problematic.
> 
> Sports with a bit more distance yachting, cricket, bowling, tennis, golf may be able to recover sooner, but without an audience?



I know that fencing is quite important to you.

As for pro sports, I couldn't give a rats ass about them nor the overpaid players "Celebrity" status.
Playing football is worth millions and millions a year?

Sorry. Standing behind a deep fryer with 40 lbs of skin shearing hot oil seems more dangerous to me.

That should pay millions.

Picking up people's garbage?
That should pay millions.

I could go on......


----------



## Snowtrac Nome

Bannedjoe said:


> I know that fencing is quite important to you.
> 
> As for pro sports, I couldn't give a rats ass about them nor the overpaid players "Celebrity" status.
> Playing football is worth millions and millions a year?
> 
> Sorry. Standing behind a deep fryer with 40 lbs of skin shearing hot oil seems more dangerous to me.
> 
> That should pay millions.
> 
> Picking up people's garbage?
> That should pay millions.
> ......


Dang Joe my thoughts exactly seeing as there are so few Americans willing to do physical labor for a living now days it should pay more. the funny thing is it seems its more the older generation doing that kind of work too it seems hard work is unbecoming of the younger generation. in the last 3 days I have had to do 3 jobs the younger guys at work couldn't do I think its because they didn't want to do them, they would rather get paied to surf face book.


----------



## EastTexFrank

Well, things are picking up around here.  

I got an email and a call from my friend who owns Cowburners BBQ and Brew Pub in town.  He's just made a deal with a hydroponics farmer in the County to sell some of his produce at his restaurant.  He tells me that if I need tomatoes, lettuce, carrots, peppers, onions or other stuff to give him a call and he'll include it in his order and we can pick it up curbside.

Through her sister, my wife made contact with a farmer at the other end of our county road.  I never knew he was there.  He raises chickens and sells eggs, whole chickens or parts,  pork products and has a greenhouse full of veggies, especially heirloom tomatoes.  What a find.  What I loved was that he said that if you are set to pick up your eggs at 10 o'clock, you may have to wait a bit because sometimes his "girls" don't co-operate.  Now that's funny.

We haven't quite resorted to barter yet but living out in the country does have it's advantages.


----------



## Bannedjoe

EastTexFrank said:


> Well, things are picking up around here.
> 
> I got an email and a call from my friend who owns Cowburners BBQ and Brew Pub in town.  He's just made a deal with a hydroponics farmer in the County to sell some of his produce at his restaurant.  He tells me that if I need tomatoes, lettuce, carrots, peppers, onions or other stuff to give him a call and he'll include it in his order and we can pick it up curbside.
> 
> Through her sister, my wife made contact with a farmer at the other end of our county road.  I never knew he was there.  He raises chickens and sells eggs, whole chickens or parts,  pork products and has a greenhouse full of veggies, especially heirloom tomatoes.  What a find.  What I loved was that he said that if you are set to pick up your eggs at 10 o'clock, you may have to wait a bit because sometimes his "girls" don't co-operate.  Now that's funny.
> 
> We haven't quite resorted to barter yet but living out in the country does have it's advantages.



Now that is cool!


----------



## m1west

Corona virus shuts Down Tyson foods, this shit better go away pretty soon or the cupboard is gonna be bare.


----------



## tiredretired

m1west said:


> Corona virus shuts Down Tyson foods, this shit better go away pretty soon or the cupboard is gonna be bare.



Everything I am reading is it is not going away, it is going to get worse.  

We are right now with the meat supply where we were back in the first part of March with all those items people started hoarding.  In other words, if you want those meats in your freezer for later, I would strongly suggest you get them NOW!!!.  You snooze, you will lose.


----------



## Melensdad

TiredRetired said:


> Everything I am reading is it is not going away, it is going to get worse.
> 
> We are right now with the meat supply where we were back in the first part of March with all those items people started hoarding.  In other words,* if you want those meats in your freezer for later, I would strongly suggest you get them NOW!!!. * You snooze, you will lose.



Literally full.


----------



## tiredretired

Melensdad said:


> Literally full.



Yeah, BUT, every time we use something, I look at that gaping hole on the shelf where it used to be in the freezer and want to go replace it.  I must have too much time on my hands.  :th_lmao:


----------



## Melensdad

TiredRetired said:


> Yeah, BUT, every time we use something,* I look at that gaping hole on the shelf where it used to be* in the freezer and want to go replace it.  I must have too much time on my hands.  :th_lmao:



Me too


----------



## m1west

More supply chain problems, Safeway grocery store warehouse just closed down due to COVID with one death in Turlock about 50 miles from here. Also being told in a subtle way to expect shortages. Although I went to the grocer up town this morning, They had everything. I bought them out of chicken breast, I got enough of everything to last about a month. They even had T/P but no paper towels, I'm ok on those as I was able to get them form Costco delivered. I keep hearing about supply chain but it keeps coming. ( for now anyway ). What worries me the most is a Depression and civil unrest in my golden years. My dad lived one when he was a kid and looks likes I'm going to live one in my senior years. I don't see at this point how we are going to come out the other side intact. Not only are we set up to lose everything the Country is split down the middle and un able to communicate. Things could be worse than 1929.


----------



## EastTexFrank

Man, you paint a pretty dreary picture but it may well come true.  

My wife went to town today for the first time in two weeks.  She had to go to the bank and the grocery store.  The bank wasn't a problem but she was shocked by what she found at the grocery store.  Nobody was wearing gloves.  Okay, East Texas grocery stores have asked people to stop wearing them and use hand sanitizer instead.  Masks?  The only people wearing masks were the old people, 65 and older.  People from 60 on down to teenagers didn't wear masks at all.  That pretty much reinforces what I saw yesterday on my quick trip tp town.  Everybody was out and about, especially the young people who were congregating in bunches all over town.  

It would seem that the quarantine, except for the old people like me, is effectively over.  People want to get back to their lives or maybe they are tired of having their kids at home all day, every day and are throwing them out of the house.


----------



## m1west

EastTexFrank said:


> Man, you paint a pretty dreary picture but it may well come true.
> 
> My wife went to town today for the first time in two weeks.  She had to go to the bank and the grocery store.  The bank wasn't a problem but she was shocked by what she found at the grocery store.  Nobody was wearing gloves.  Okay, East Texas grocery stores have asked people to stop wearing them and use hand sanitizer instead.  Masks?  The only people wearing masks were the old people, 65 and older.  People from 60 on down to teenagers didn't wear masks at all.  That pretty much reinforces what I saw yesterday on my quick trip tp town.  Everybody was out and about, especially the young people who were congregating in bunches all over town.
> 
> It would seem that the quarantine, except for the old people like me, is effectively over.  People want to get back to their lives or maybe they are tired of having their kids at home all day, every day and are throwing them out of the house.



Same in my town of a few thousand, No one likes to be controlled, but I'm not sure going back to daily life right now is a good idea either. I have to go to the field and deal with jobs. I try to be safe, but there is always someone wanting to get to close. I have a good friend of mine that thinks the whole thing is bullshit and we should have just plowed right through it. That would have been one way to deal with it but I'm not sure what that would look like in real life. I don't see normal life on the horizon for some time.


----------



## tiredretired

m1west said:


> More supply chain problems, Safeway grocery store warehouse just closed down due to COVID with one death in Turlock about 50 miles from here. Also being told in a subtle way to expect shortages. Although I went to the grocer up town this morning, They had everything. I bought them out of chicken breast, I got enough of everything to last about a month. They even had T/P but no paper towels, I'm ok on those as I was able to get them form Costco delivered. I keep hearing about supply chain but it keeps coming. ( for now anyway ). What worries me the most is a Depression and civil unrest in my golden years. My dad lived one when he was a kid and looks likes I'm going to live one in my senior years. I don't see at this point how we are going to come out the other side intact. Not only are we set up to lose everything the Country is split down the middle and un able to communicate. Things could be worse than 1929.





EastTexFrank said:


> Man, you paint a pretty dreary picture but it may well come true.
> 
> My wife went to town today for the first time in two weeks.  She had to go to the bank and the grocery store.  The bank wasn't a problem but she was shocked by what she found at the grocery store.  Nobody was wearing gloves.  Okay, East Texas grocery stores have asked people to stop wearing them and use hand sanitizer instead.  Masks?  The only people wearing masks were the old people, 65 and older.  People from 60 on down to teenagers didn't wear masks at all.  That pretty much reinforces what I saw yesterday on my quick trip tp town.  Everybody was out and about, especially the young people who were congregating in bunches all over town.
> 
> It would seem that the quarantine, except for the old people like me, is effectively over.  People want to get back to their lives or maybe they are tired of having their kids at home all day, every day and are throwing them out of the house.



If this country does not get open soon it is going to be much more than just a dreary picture.  It is going to be an unmitigated disaster for everyone.

We still have people here that have been waiting 4 weeks now for their unemployment checks and no idea when they are coming.

Businesses here are now being told the Paycheck Protection Program is out of money so all these businesses that applied and kept people on in the hopes of getting the money and following all the rules so the loans would be forgiven are now being told to lay them off or continue to pay them for not being at work at company expense. 

Landlords are suffering because April rents checks are not there and in a few weeks May checks will be defaulting as well.  Stimulus checks helped, but too little too late in many cases. 

Lines at food shelves are longer by the day and running out of food. 

Meanwhile Congress is doing nothing, Pelosi is showing off her $100.00 a half gallon of gourmet ice cream collection while people are suffering.  Let them eat cake.  

Yeah, it is one fucking dreary picture for many folks and getting worse by the day.


----------



## Bannedjoe

TiredRetired said:


> If this country does not get open soon it is going to be much more than just a dreary picture.  It is going to be an unmitigated disaster for everyone.
> 
> We still have people here that have been waiting 4 weeks now for their unemployment checks and no idea when they are coming.
> 
> Businesses here are now being told the Paycheck Protection Program is out of money so all these businesses that applied and kept people on in the hopes of getting the money and following all the rules so the loans would be forgiven are now being told to lay them off or continue to pay them for not being at work at company expense.
> 
> Landlords are suffering because April rents checks are not there and in a few weeks May checks will be defaulting as well.  Stimulus checks helped, but too little too late in many cases.
> 
> Lines at food shelves are longer by the day and running out of food.
> 
> Meanwhile Congress is doing nothing, Pelosi is showing off her $100.00 a half gallon of gourmet ice cream collection while people are suffering.  Let them eat cake.
> 
> Yeah, it is one fucking dreary picture for many folks and getting worse by the day.


Someone needs to tell the Clinton's that Pelosi said they have bad breath.


----------



## Melensdad

Bannedjoe said:


> Someone needs to tell the Clinton's that Pelosi said they have bad breath.



:th_lmao:


----------



## m1west

Well, there is not much more need to prepare for the virus as the country is set to reopen in the coming weeks. Now it is time to prepare for what that opening looks like. Some will go back to work, some have no jobs to go back too. People will have to find new hobbies as Gyms, and all contact sports will take a while to normalize. What is the economy going to look like going forward?
Myself I just turned 62 and literally was just about to drop my retirement papers in the mail when this happened, the language in my union retirement package says they can make adjustments to payments for up to 5 years after retirement so I held them back.Are we headed for a recession or worse a depression? Lots of small business will go belly up. and we just spent a couple trillion and are looking to spend more?? The whole world just got screwed.


----------



## EastTexFrank

You all are going back to work.  Me?  I'm staying home until I'm sure this whole thing is over.  

The whole world did possibly just get screwed.  It'll be interesting a few years down the road to see if this was the biggest scam ever foisted on humanity.  

I'm still in the, "I don't know what to believe camp".  There is just too much misinformation and disinformation out there for me to reach any clear, logical conclusion or course of action.


----------



## pirate_girl

EastTexFrank said:


> You all are going back to work.  Me?  I'm staying home until I'm sure this whole thing is over.
> 
> The whole world did possibly just get screwed.  It'll be interesting a few years down the road to see if this was the biggest scam ever foisted on humanity.
> 
> I'm still in the, "I don't know what to believe camp".  There is just too much misinformation and disinformation out there for me to reach any clear, logical conclusion or course of action.


I'm right there with you, Frank.
(Besides the staying home part).


----------



## m1west

EastTexFrank said:


> You all are going back to work.  Me?  I'm staying home until I'm sure this whole thing is over.
> 
> The whole world did possibly just get screwed.  It'll be interesting a few years down the road to see if this was the biggest scam ever foisted on humanity.
> 
> I'm still in the, "I don't know what to believe camp".  There is just too much misinformation and disinformation out there for me to reach any clear, logical conclusion or course of action.



I hear what you are saying. one report says after testing the death rate is the same as the flu, then another I just watched on the news says it causing heart disease and kidney problems. if you get it it never goes away and can come back when it feels like it. Also read it will not be going away with summer. It is hard to deal with a moving target. The US hit  40,000 deaths today, that is the population of the county. I still plan on doing what I am doing for a while before getting to cocky.


----------



## EastTexFrank

pirate_girl said:


> I'm right there with you, Frank.
> (Besides the staying home part).



Well, someone has to go work and pay taxes or how the hell am I going to live on Social Security.    

Luvya babe!


----------



## EastTexFrank

My wife and I are still sitting up on our little hill and watching the world go bye.  Every 10 days or two weeks she'll make a run to the grocery store for fresh veg but apart from that we are suffering no hardship what-so-ever.  Last week when she made a grocery run she brought home a ton of fresh fruit.  She was craving fresh fruit.  I really think that was the main reason she went in to town.  

Today it was a thunder and lightening day, not too severe.  I was sitting around thinking that this thing may be over in a couple of months but it may fire up again in the fall.  I know that I have enough to get through another couple of months quite comfortably but I'll need to restock before the fall.  What would I do differently if anything?  Would I get more freeze dried stuff?  We haven't used any so far.  Would I get more canned stuff?  We haven't used any of that either.  I'm thinking that it would just be more of the same, fill the freezers with more meat and frozen veg, sit back and enjoy.  

Would any of you guys do anything differently on the second go around?


----------



## Melensdad

EastTexFrank said:


> My wife and I are still sitting up on our little hill and watching the world go bye.  Every 10 days or two weeks she'll make a run to the grocery store for fresh veg...
> 
> ... but it may fire up again in the fall...
> 
> ... What would I do differently if anything?  Would I get more freeze dried stuff?  We haven't used any so far.  Would I get more canned stuff?  We haven't used any of that either.  I'm thinking that it would just be more of the same, fill the freezers with more meat and frozen veg, sit back and enjoy.
> 
> Would any of you guys do anything differently on the second go around?



Darn good question.

I'd probably buy a 3rd freezer and pack it   But I would probably throw in a bunch of dozen pizza.  Some frozen oriental foods.  Some frozen prepared meals of some sort.  I'm not complaining about having a freezer packed with meat, but sometimes I like to go to a restaurant and get stuff we don't normally cook.  Having a 3rd freezer, and packing it with stuff that we enjoy but perhaps don't know how to make, or just to add more variety, etc, that would be great.  

CANNED FOOD:  We use very little canned food, but we do use some.  I think I'd probably buy more canned stewed tomatoes, canned beans for chili, and of course Mary Kitchen Corned Beef Hash!  We have more cans of sweet corn than I can eat.  Plenty of green beans but more people eat green beans here than canned corn.  So 2 cases of canned corn should have been 1 case.  I did buy a few cans of several types of things like Chef-boy-r-dee Mini Ravioli, Beefaroni, etc.  Most of that remains untouched, but every once in a while I've found an eaten can in the trash.  I might have added to that trash once or twice too.  Canned SOUPS are sitting on our shelves, we mostly use those for casseroles, might be time to make some?  

FRUIT:  I like fruit in my oatmeal.  But I don't need fresh fruit.  I'm happy with freeze dried strawberries, bananas, raspberries, blackberries and blueberries.  They can be used in smoothies and even in vanilla ice cream to make flavored ice cream.  Some stuff is available as Dehydrated, other stuff as Freeze Dried.  Freeze dried is crazy expensive by comparison, but it tastes better and reconstitutes better, if budget is no object, I'd buy bulk freeze dried berries, apple slices, banana chips.  I'd buy dried apricots, mangos. 

Probably going to run out of maple syrup.  So I'd buy more pure maple syrup.  I'm eating a lot more oatmeal lately.  I like a shot of syrup in my oatmeal to give it a bit of flavor, along with the fruit.  

PACKAGED SIDE DISHES:  1- POTATOES, We have boxes of Scalloped Potatoes (and other varieties).  Basically just boxes of cheese mix + flavor mix + dried potatoes.  In normal times we eat a box of those a month.  I'm finding they are over-loads of cheese.  We have some boxes of stuff that contains NO CHEESE, they are more like a skillet fried potato mix.  I prefer those.  Probably get fewer of the cheesy type, more of the skillet type.   2- RICE, again we normally eat rice dishes periodically, I prefer red beans & rice, or Cajun Dirty Rice, even Rice-a-Roni is OK.  I think we've made it once since we've been locked down.  Got lots of it.  3 - CAULIFLOWER 'rice' is more popular because its lower calorie and low carb (_Melen is diabetic_) but its difficult in normal times to find shelf stable packages.  We have a bunch of frozen cauliflower (_I broke down heads, individually froze the pieces, and then vacuum packed the pieces_) but it seems like we use this more than either rice or potatoes so I'd probably have more.

BREAD MIX has been a blessing.  Not only does homemade bread taste really good, and make the house smell great, it just makes us happy.  I bought 4 or 5 different varieties of and bought several boxes of each mix (_probably 36 total boxes_).  We also have various things like 1 pound bags of flax, pumpkin, poppy, etc seeds that we can use to modify the bread mixes.  These are things we normally have in the pantry, but not normally in such large quantities.  

NUT BUTTERS:  I didn't realize my daughter eats so much peanut butter.  I buy the natural stuff.  1 jar will last us a full year.  Melen has been locked in the house for over a month and we are now on our 3rd and last jar of peanut butter.  She also eats Almond and Cashew butter, but I didn't have any of those so I guess that explains why the P.B. is moving faster.  Realize she has been away from home since starting college so I didn't realize some of the foods she is eating.

I still have a few dozen eggs, and a can of powdered eggs.  I guess the powdered eggs are overkill.  They will be used for baking/cooking.

We ran out of lactose free milk.  We started in on the 'shelf stable' milk.  It comes in 8oz containers.  We have 23 of those 8-oz containers.  They are not lactose free so I'm using Lactaid if I have things with milk.  I would source a lactose free version of the shelf stable stuff.  It is available, but difficult to find in normal circumstances.  

We also have a #10 can of powdered milk that is unopened.  It works fine for baking, cooking, etc.  We will save the 8-oz shelf stable milk for when we really need milk for drinking?

SNACK FOODS:   Dark Chocolate, small portion snacks, lower calorie snacks.  I'm happy to snack on sardines, Spam, smoked oysters, etc.  I normally have a half dozen cans of each in the house.  I have sardines and Spam but no smoked oysters.  I also like to snack on pickles.  I had several jars that we canned ourselves, and I bought a half dozen jars at the store, but currently I'm probably down to the last 3 or 4 jars.  I do like pickles.  I bought a couple cases of individual serve bags of low calorie pop-corn and a couple boxes of OREO "2 packs" and both of those snacks have helped ... but Melen baked scratch made chocolate chip cookies last evening.

I would have more PUZZLES in the house.  I don't make them but the girls do.  

We found 2 plastic bins of YARN in our pile of craft supplies.  That has occupied hours of the girls time and has been a blessing for them.


----------



## tiredretired

EastTexFrank said:


> Would any of you guys do anything differently on the second go around?



1.  More Mountain House.  I want a 90 day supply of the stuff for two people.  It has a 30 year shelf life so it will outlive me and son will inherit it.  

2.  More canned food.  I am a big canned food fan.  It lasts a long time.  The best use dates on the can are just that, best use.  In reality most canned goods with the exception of high acidic products last well past the due date.  I just used a quart container of Vegetable Broth. to make a Vegetable soup. that was dated 3/15/18. It passed the smell test, taste test for both of us.  It was fine and made a great soup. That was 4 days ago and we are not dead yet.  No issues.  

Canned meats are high in salt, but that keeps them going for a long time in the can.  Spam, Corned beef, chicken and turkey breast and Tuna are my favorites.  I will get more of those as I find them on special.  Not paying panic prices right now, do not need to. 

3.  More vacuum lids for my 1/2 gallon canning jars.  I use fermenting lids as you can reuse those to release the vacuum and re-pump them up after you use some of the product.  I store 3 types of flour in them, regular, bread and self rising, pasta and rice in them.  I need to do more of that.

4. Dinty Moore Stew.  Crazy long best use date, right now out to 2024.  A very versatile food.  Great on rice, potatoes, egg noodles or just plain in a bowl.  We currently only have about a dozen cans of this and should have more.

Ideally I too would like two of those commercial grade freezers in the basement running 24/7 off a small solar array that would also run the small 10 cubic foot spare frig and the kitchen fridge.  That would be an ideal situation for us and I am going to look into that once it is feasible.

Lots more things I could mention and Bob brought up lots of great stuff too.  In reality I missed lots of things and could have done better in many areas but overall we are still in a very small group that saw this coming and prepared better than most 
 For that we are thankful.


----------



## m1west

EastTexFrank said:


> My wife and I are still sitting up on our little hill and watching the world go bye.  Every 10 days or two weeks she'll make a run to the grocery store for fresh veg but apart from that we are suffering no hardship what-so-ever.  Last week when she made a grocery run she brought home a ton of fresh fruit.  She was craving fresh fruit.  I really think that was the main reason she went in to town.
> 
> Today it was a thunder and lightening day, not too severe.  I was sitting around thinking that this thing may be over in a couple of months but it may fire up again in the fall.  I know that I have enough to get through another couple of months quite comfortably but I'll need to restock before the fall.  What would I do differently if anything?  Would I get more freeze dried stuff?  We haven't used any so far.  Would I get more canned stuff?  We haven't used any of that either.  I'm thinking that it would just be more of the same, fill the freezers with more meat and frozen veg, sit back and enjoy.
> 
> Would any of you guys do anything differently on the second go around?



Between the first wave and the second wave I  think I will pick up a dedicated freezer. The one on the fridge holds a months worth. I learned thats not enough as I want to minimize trips and there can be shortages.
My 30 year and canned food are stocked up and I have not gotten into it. Some more medical supplies and masks. I fell down on my trailer and without the supplies I had on hand I would have been forced to go to a hospital. It would also be nice to have more medicine on hand like antibiotics and anti viral. I am on a well so as long as I can get or make electricity I got water. We planted many fruit trees about 3 years ago that are now baring fruit and I am planting the garden. Maybe stock up on building materials for the work cabin I am going to need and building supplies in general for repairs. Oil, grease ,filters, spark plugs etc. for the vehicles and equipment around here. I still have the Diesel and gas I stored. Im sure there are other things I will think of but I feel I have a good start.


----------



## EastTexFrank

Thank you guys.  You have given me quite a few  things to think about.  We are both in our 70s and it has been surprising just how little we actually eat in a day.  Not at all like the old days when it used to be 3-squares a day.  

I'm diabetic so there is never any candy or cookies in the house.  My wife does have her hidden stash of cookies that I will raid once in a blue moon.  There have been occasions though when I've had the longing for something sweet.  I usually satisfy it with coffee laced with zero calorie Skinny Syrup.

We have 2 jars of peanut butter and haven't touched either.  Like Bob, my snacks tend to consist of canned fish, spam and the like and I still have plenty of those.  I did run out of Bumble Bee tuna and chicken salad lunch packs.  

I think that I need to build up my freeze dried foods to last about a month.  For us using it would be a last resort but it would be comforting just to have it sitting there.  Like TR, I saw this coming and stocked up on bread.  We don't use a lot of bread but need it for sandwiches and the like.  It would be nice though if we had some of those frozen biscuits, rolls and things in the freezer.  My Wife swears that she can bake bread but I've never seen her do it.  Just in case I started researching bread making machines and low carb bread mixes.  

We are a potato and pasta household.  We still have plenty of low carb pasta but being Scottish I can't live without potatoes.  I did look at the boxes of instant potatoes and decided to give them a pass.  I won't do that next time.

I drink lots of zero calorie sports drinks.  I never appreciated just how many.  I will have to address that or substitute water.  That should be easy enough.

All in all, we've come through the last 5 weeks with little or no difficulty but I am ready for it to be over.


----------



## m1west

While we sit here still pretty comfortable and slightly inconvenienced most the rest of the world is in dire straights. Countries that are perpetually teetering on the edge are now going over the edge. As this thing goes on I ask myself is this going to be our future if this thing just keeps going and going. Like the frog in the pot with the water heating up are we going to wake one day to 1929. I can remember having conversations with my dad as an adult about the Great Depression, how quickly everything changed then stayed that way for a long time. Someone straighten me out if I am missing something  but the parallel is frightening. Experts are predicting up to 1/2 of all small business may fail, while statistics say that small business employs 60% of Americans so right there that is 30% unemployment. In the Great Depression it was 25%. The country is broke and owes trillions and so does most of our citizens. Before this more than 1/2  couldn't deal with a $1000.00 emergency. Essential businesses are being decimated financially, Farms, travel, restaraunts  you name it. What is happening now is deflation because there is no demand for manufactured products and what can come next is hyper inflation on essential products like food and medicine because when most everything goes under production will stop there will be shortages.Then maybe none at all. I know its doom and gloom but a possibility that needs to be thought about.


----------



## tiredretired

Interesting.  I had my annual physical on March 12.  Just so happened it was the last day my doctor was doing physicals due to COVID.  We touched base a little about preparing for what was coming and he told me to call him anytime and he would write a RX for a 6 month supply of my meds.  Of course, I would need to pay out of pocket for that as the insurance would not cover that, of course.  

Still thinking about that.

We are working on that six month food prep as well.  Already started as a matter of fact with more coming in tomorrow and still waiting on our latest Mountain House shipment we placed 4 weeks ago.


----------



## EastTexFrank

My wife went in to town today in the rain.  She went to the vet to pick up a 3-month supply of allergy meds for one of the dogs.  

While there she swung by the grocery store as the carpark was empty due to the weather.  I love it when she comes home from the grocery store.  For me it's like Christmas morning waiting to see what she brought.  Mainly it was green stuff and salad dressing although she did pick up more cans of beans and things that I have ever seen her buy.

Coming home she stopped by Mineola Pack to pick up our order of small filets, NY strips and ground beef.  We're having one of the strips for dinner tonight.  

At the beginning of this I thought that I had about 3 months of supplies on hand.  We're almost 6 weeks into this thing, I'm losing track of time, and I still think that I have easily 3 months of stuff left.  Since we could be doing this for another 6 weeks we may need it.

Something that Melensdad said made a lot of sense to me.  It involved laying in a stock of food that you like but don't necessarily cook at home.  Something like pizza.  We never eat pizza at home because my wife's and my taste in pizza differs so much but half a dozen differing kinds would be an occasional treat.  Likewise prepackaged frozen oriental dinners.  We have some of those because that is one of her go tos when I'm having chicken for dinner but more wouldn't hurt.  I'll have plenty of time to give this some more thought.


----------



## Bannedjoe

It's not that hard to make a pizza from scratch, esp if you have a bread machine. 
I do it rather often.
It just takes time, and who doesn't have a little extra of that these days?


----------



## tiredretired

Bannedjoe said:


> *It's not that hard to make a pizza from scratch, esp if you have a bread machine. *
> I do it rather often.
> It just takes time, and who doesn't have a little extra of that these days?



Easy peasy to make the crust by hand.  Only raise the dough once.  Then you get to practice fiipping it in the air like the experts do.   :th_lmao:


----------



## EastTexFrank

TiredRetired said:


> Easy peasy to make the crust by hand.  Only raise the dough once.  Then you get to practice fiipping it in the air like the experts do.   :th_lmao:



We talked about this and my wife returned from town today with all the fixings to make pizza.  We'll see how this goes.  It won't be done tomorrow but it will be interesting.


----------



## Melensdad

EastTexFrank said:


> We talked about this and my wife returned from town today with all the fixings to make pizza.  We'll see how this goes.  It won't be done tomorrow but it will be interesting.



They sell pre-packed pizza dough mix in pouches.  Just add water!

They also sell refrigerated 'tubes' of pizza dough that you pop open like crescent rolls.  Just pop the tube and unroll the dough.  

We use pizza dough to make tomato flat breads more often than to actually make pizza.


----------



## EastTexFrank

That may be the way to do it.  As I said, we never make pizza at home because I'm diabetic and there is just too much bread and carbs unless it is an ultra thin crust.  My wife prefers the bread to the actual toppings.  I like the flat bread idea.  I have a thing about smoked salmon flat bread but I do rearrange the topping and leave half the flat bread.


----------



## tiredretired

Melensdad said:


> They sell pre-packed pizza dough mix in pouches.  Just add water!
> 
> *They also sell refrigerated 'tubes' of pizza dough that you pop open like crescent rolls.  Just pop the tube and unroll the dough.  *
> 
> We use pizza dough to make tomato flat breads more often than to actually make pizza.



I tried that stuff once.  For me, and I am NOT a picky eater, it tastes like shit, to be honest.  Now, others may like it, but I sure as hell do not. 

BTW, Youtube is full of videos on making pizza dough.  Pretty awesome how some folks approach it.  Interesting.


----------



## Melensdad

TiredRetired said:


> I tried that stuff once.  For me, and I am NOT a picky eater, it tastes like shit, to be honest.  Now, others may like it, but I sure as hell do not.


I don't think we've ever used it to make PIZZA ... the lovely Mrs_Bob has used it to make flat breads that she seasons with garlic, olive oil, and various seasonings.  


....


And more about the possibility of MEAT shortages.

We are going to pick up an on-line order today at the local grocery where they pick it and bring it out to our car..  Our main goal is to get some fresh veggies.  But for the fun of it I looked up meat prices after seeing the article that I have linked below.  I guess I'm not really seeing a shortage in my area.  I also don't really see price spikes in this area.  Pork prices seem the same.  Beef prices rose before Covid, not sure they have gone up since February?  Some of the chicken availability seems to be in shorter supply, and some of the prices seem a bit higher?  

I'll say that pork is still available in my area, and the prices are reasonable.  Center Rib Pork Roast $4.99/#, tenderloin $5.99/#, center cut chops $5.49/#,  Semi-boneless chop $2.49/#.

Beef is still available in my area, prices are what they are; boneless Rib Eye is $15-$17 per pound, ground chuck $4.99#.

Chicken is available but our top choices are in short supply.  We prefer thighs to breasts.  Boneless thighs are scarce.  Bone in, skin on, is $0.99 per pound for the economy stuff but $2.99/pound for the larger, select thighs and $7.99/pound for Organic chicken thighs!!!

Those prices are as of 5:45am Central time, April 25, '20.  They seem ONLY VERY SLIGHTLY higher than the prices we paid about a month ago but I'm using my faulty memory so perhaps they are about the same.  I do know the low priced chicken thighs have been in the 99-cent/pound range for a couple of months.  


ARTICLE FROM THE WALL STREET JOURNAL:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/grocer...irus-hobbles-beef-and-pork-plants-11587679833



> *Grocers Hunt for Meat as Coronavirus Hobbles Beef and Pork Plants*
> Surging consumer demand also tightens supplies; supermarkets brace for shortages
> 
> By Jacob Bunge, Sarah Nassauer and Jaewon Kang April 23, 2020 6:10 pm ET
> 
> U.S. beef production fell 24% last week, compared with a month earlier.
> 
> U.S. grocers are struggling to secure meat, looking for new suppliers and selling different cuts, as the coronavirus pandemic cuts into domestic production and raises fears of shortages.
> 
> Covid-19 outbreaks among employees have closed about a dozen U.S. meatpacking facilities this month, including three Tyson Foods Inc. TSN -3.15% plants this week. Other plants have slowed production as workers stay home for various reasons.
> 
> Grocery executives at retailers including Walmart Inc. WMT 0.71% and Costco Wholesale Corp. COST 1.69% worry supplies of some products could run short just as demand is surging.
> 
> “I have not seen beef sales and all protein behave this way since the Atkins Diet days,” when shoppers bought up meat as part of the low-carb diet, said Jeff Lyons, senior vice president of fresh food for Costco. The warehouse chain is considering new suppliers to shore up its meat supplies, he said....



FULL ARTICLE IS AT THE LINK ABOVE!​


----------



## tiredretired

Fox News just reported that a total of 8 meat processing plants have closed. 

Take that for what it is worth.


----------



## Melensdad

Thought I'd report on the grocery pick up.  I've already gotten home and washed everything and put it away.

So here is the update.  We got about 50% of what we wanted exactly as we wanted it.  Of the remaining 50% we got about 1/2 of other stuff scratched from the order and about 1/2 substituted items. * So clearly the local store is suffering from a lack of selection on some items.
*  I probably should have tried to get more meats.  We eat some form of meat every day, I have a lot in the freezers, but there are 'holes' appearing in the freezer and what I ordered will certainly not replace what we have already eaten.  And based on what I ordered versus what I got, there are shortages at the store.

MEAT

Ordered a pork roast.... out of stock .... they had spare ribs.  I took them, not even close to what I wanted but spare ribs are always good.
Ordered 4 thick rib eye steaks.... out of stock .... I got 2 thin cut rib eyes + some chuck steaks.  Again, not a good substitute but its what I could get.
Ordered Oscar Meyer liver sausage.... out of stock .... got Frick's liver sausage
Ordered 2 full pork tenderloins and got both of those
 
Thought I'd try for some desserts:

Ordered LACTOSE FREE Vanilla ice cream.... out of stock
Ordered Vanilla ice cream.... out of stock, got some peanut butter ice cream
Ordered Strawberry ice cream.... WE GOT IT
Ordered frozen mini eclairs.... out of stock.... got frozen mini cream puffs

Ordered Lactaid _(lactose free milk) _MILK.... out of stock, but they had Fair Life lactose free _in a smaller bottle at a much higher price!_

Ordered some 2# bags of shredded cheese.  Couple flavors.... All flavors out of stock in 2# sizes.... got some 8oz bags of the same flavors

Ordered various produce, got everything we ordered EXCEPT for Peaches.  

Ordered 8 to 10 various spices, canned and boxed items, mostly from the Asian food aisle, got all the various misc items, but then again I don't think there is much demand for toasted sesame oil, Thai glass noodles or even more common bottles of vanilla extract.

Motts brand apple juice was out but we got Old Orchard brand.


----------



## EastTexFrank

My wife made a flatbread pizza last night from some packaged dough and it was pretty good, not great but definitely worth eating.  We'll do it again.  

We haven't got meat from the grocery store for quite some time because, to be perfectly honest, it wasn't very good.  It was expensive for what it was.  It was a lottery, sometimes it was edible and sometimes you couldn't cut it with a chain saw.  We started going to Mineola Pack for all our meat needs.  We usually get NY strips and ribeyes, small fillets, 3# roasts and ground beef.  In pork we get roasts, tenderloins and chops.  We don't get chicken as my wife doesn't eat it so I'm on my own for that, besides I have bags of frozen wings in the freezer.  I also have Cornish game hens, a couple of ducks and a goose.  My wife will kind of pick at a game hen,  she will eat parts of a duck and will eat goose.  I never figured out this thing of not eating birds.  Generally speaking, we are in pretty good shape for meat protein for the foreseeable future.  

What does worry me a little bit is that during all the panic buying Mineola Pack closed down their retail sales to the public for 2 weeks to concentrate on filling their commercial orders.  If meat is getting in short supply from other sources they may have to do it again in order to meet increased demand.


----------



## tiredretired

Fox News announced that Tyson Foods has shut down a plant this afternoon.  

Sounds more and more like I need to go on a meat recon search and destroy mission this coming week.  

Now where in hell did I put those night vision goggles.  :th_lmao:


----------



## m1west

TiredRetired said:


> Fox News announced that Tyson Foods has shut down a plant this afternoon.
> 
> Sounds more and more like I need to go on a meat recon search and destroy mission this coming week.
> 
> Now where in hell did I put those night vision goggles.  :th_lmao:



Yea no shit pretty soon pork is going  to be $100.00 a pound at the store if you can find it but the farmers will be paying people to take a pig? About time to get a bigger freezer and skip the middle man.


----------



## tiredretired

m1west said:


> Yea no shit pretty soon pork is going  to be $100.00 a pound at the store if you can find it but the farmers will be paying people to take a pig? About time to get a bigger freezer and skip the middle man.



Frigidare and maybe others make a convertible style that can switch between being a freezer or a frig with the flip of a switch.  I am looking at a 20 cubic foot one of this type.  Cost will be around a grand.

I like the commercial types but they run around two grand and I cannot justify that right now.


----------



## m1west

TiredRetired said:


> Frigidare and maybe others make a convertible style that can switch between being a freezer or a frig with the flip of a switch.  I am looking at a 20 cubic foot one of this type.  Cost will be around a grand.
> 
> I like the commercial types but they run around two grand and I cannot justify that right now.



Choices Choices, they all seem to have free delivery, I think I am just going for a straight freezer. 23 CF. for $600.00. Now I am going to look for a local shop, farm or whatever that will fill it up.


----------



## tiredretired

m1west said:


> Choices Choices, they all seem to have free delivery, I think I am just going for a straight freezer. 23 CF. for $600.00. Now I am going to look for a local shop, farm or whatever that will fill it up.



Smart decision.


----------



## tiredretired

Well, I topped off all the freezers today.  I found some unexpected good deals.  In the meat clearance section they had a bunch of 5 pound tubes of 80% Chuck.  I grabbed 4 tubes and left plenty for others.  Also found those cheap cut pork chops at 50% off and grabbed 4 packages of those.  They yielded 10 pounds of nice looking ground pork.

Good prices on Pork Tenderloins, Stew Meat, Bacon and Boneless Chicken at $1.77 per pound.  Bought plenty of all. 

Splurged on more McKenzie Breakfast Sausage, Italian Sausage and steaks.

While grinding and vacuum sealing Fox News had a piece where some Tyson big wig is predicting meat shortages for May.  He did not sound optimistic. It did not sound good at all.   

I cannot stress enough for all hands here to stock up on meats.


----------



## Melensdad

TiredRetired said:


> I cannot stress enough for all hands here to *stock up on meats*.



That has been my position all along.  


Best case scenario, I have a freezer full of meat at good prices and availability continues without issues.

Middle scenario, I have a freezer full of meat at good prices when others are buying meat at high prices.

Worst case scenario, I have have a freezer full of meat at good prices when others cannot buy meat.


----------



## m1west

Suited up and went to the local grocery store today during old guy hour. Masks are mandatory there now, not many in the store. They had everything I was looking for Beef, chicken, pork all you want. I even scored paper towles limit 2. While I was having some ribeye cut I quizzed the butcher on possible shortages. He said they get there meat from local packing houses that haven't had any problems yet. Said larger cities most stores buy from the mid west and most likely will see some shortage. I am ordering the new freezer today.


----------



## EastTexFrank

My wife went shopping today at the farm at the opposite end of our country road.  It's owned by a younger couple who are trying to make a living from the old family farm.  We all know how tough that can be especially in these times of no farmer's markets, road side stands and the like.  They're the kind of people who my wife likes to try and help.  They raise grass fed Angus cattle, some hogs they buy from the FFA kids, free range chickens and eggs.  Also, they have a huge greenhouse and cold frame .  Anyway, she texted in her order yesterday and got a call this morning to come pick it up.  She got some chicken breasts, bacon, lettuce and carrots.  She didn't get eggs because his "girls" are not co-operating.  That will probably be Monday.  I can hardly wait to see these eggs.  My S-I-L gets her eggs there and the shells are all different colors, blue, green, yellow, brown, but she says they are the best tasting eggs she's ever had and that's a high compliment from a lady who used to raise chickens for their eggs.  

They're working hard at it.  I hope they make it.  We'll try to help.  It's sometimes worth it to pay a little bit more.


----------



## Melensdad

So old thread but we are 1 full year into the Covid mess.  What do you do right?  Or wrong?

I never ran out of cleaning supplies, Clorox wipes, dish soap, dishwasher soap, etc. 

 Never ran out of personal care items, soaps, lotions, OTC meds, etc.

Planned for 3+ months of paper towels and toilet paper.  Had enough supplies of both and was able to restock and maintain a supply even when others were scrounging

Planned for 6-9 months of non-prescription meds and never ran out.  Prescription meds were at 90 days.  Insulin at 6 months

I planned for 3-4 months of food and I had that.  Food never really became too much of a problem but specific brands and sizes ran out.  I’ve maintained a constant supply of excess food throughout the pandemic, keeping my freezers full.

Batteries, I ran out.  Was able to restock. 

Water softener salt... totally blew that!  Not even close to enough.

Automotive oils fluids and supplies, no issues.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

I ran out of Grape Nuts but I think that was a national supply issue and had nothing to do with Covid.  They are starting to come back now.

For a while it was hard to find additional weights for my home gym but I ended up finding what I needed.  Otherwise, no issues.


----------



## EastTexFrank

I think that we got most of it right.  We didn't run out of anything.  I was a little worried about disinfectant wipes at one time but a friend who used to have a cleaning company called and said, "Can you take some of these off my hands" and I sure as hell did.  So, that turned out to not be a problem at all.  The freezers are a little leaner than they used to be but not by much.  As long as Mineola Pack is functioning we have an unlimited source of good quality meat.  

As I said earlier, our only shortage was in fresh vegetables, especially lettuce.  My wife's Covid garden kept us supplied with an abundance of tomatoes and peppers all growing season.  The quality of veg from the grocery store sucked.  I don't know how long they had some of that stuff stuck in a warehouse somewhere but by the time it arrived in the store a large part of the package was spoiled and inedible.  We still bought from our farmer friends but the snow from the big freeze collapsed his huge greenhouse and he lost everything.  Eggs were missing from the grocery store for a while but it seems that everybody around here has a chicken coop.  You could get eggs at the feed store and even at ACE Hardware.  Our local farmer's hens produced all winter too.  

No, lack of supplies was never a problem.  I thought that we had enough stuff on hand to get by for 3 months.  It turns out that we could have easily gone for a year and then some.  Our biggest inconvenience came during the big freeze last month.  We lost water for a while and when we got it back we were under a "boil water advisory".  My wife noticed that the water pressure was dropping and I filled up our emergency water containers.  We also harvested and melted icicles from the roof and used that for toilet flushing and other non potable uses.  All in all, we pretty much scooted through Covid and the big freeze.


----------



## FrancSevin

Long before Covid, we were prepping. Our remote 80 acres in the Ozark is a banked deposit of last resort should the SHTF.

However, in any form of disaster, environmental, economic,  or political,  life in the suburbs will most likely continue in some form for most of us.  To that end we are prepped to hunker down in suburbia  for about 6 months.

Food in the form of frozen and dehydrated stored safely in the lower level of the house. 5800watt generators both Gasoline and diesel at the ready.  An active green house for veggies on the southside of the structure, provides solar heating and green veggies. Our large southern roof drains to a barrel giving us potable water. Two hundred yards away is a large subdivision lake.

Of course the -15F temperatures put a real strain on all of it.  Natural gas stayed on but had it failed we have two fireplaces, one on each level, and several chords of seasoned oak.  I have banked medications, prescription, OTC's and supplements for at least six months.  Paper products and ammo,,, enough said.

Keep in mind I live on a small 1/3 acre lot in metro west St Louis.  With my wife and two teenagers, I'm as prepared to survive as if a remote mountain cabin.

The cold snap and blizzard was a test run.  Stores were out of everything here in Eastern MO. Except for the grahams needed for smores, we were fine. Chocolate you say????? Plenty on hand. Also beer, wines and scotch.  Along with food, shelter, and TP,  One must also have the essentials of life.

BTW, what's the deal with Graham Crackers. It seems I haven't seen them on the shelf for months now.


----------

