# What's Up With Diesel?



## BoneheadNW

In the course of an hour, I saw the price of diesel go up 15 cents yesterday from $3.30 to $3.45.  Did anyone else notice this where they live?  What is up with that?
Bonehead


----------



## DaveNay

The usual fall home heating oil/diesel price increase.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

I did notice that it was 3.45 on one side of town and 3.18 on another.  It's probably up everywhere now.


----------



## Av8r3400

Greeeaaat.  I gotta fill my truck today.  There goes another c-note.  irate:


----------



## DaveNay

Av8r3400 said:


> Greeeaaat.  I gotta fill my truck today.  There goes another c-note.  irate:



Don't feel bad, I need to fill up my house soon.  Luckily no road tax on #2 home heating oil.


----------



## Dargo

Hmm, $2.99 this morning here.  Maybe I ought to top off my pickup.


----------



## Snowcat Operations

$3.33 here in Ely NV!  What a crock!


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

$3.49 (+- 2 cents) around here still.


----------



## BoneheadNW

Just paid $3.05 for regular.  Diesel is up to $3.50.
Bonehead


----------



## thcri RIP

Did't crude just hit it's highest ever recorded?  I am sure since Diesel is in demand right now I am sure they are raising it right away.


murph


----------



## Snowcat Operations

OUCH!!!!  $3.47 as of 6:14 pm today ARCO in ELY NV.


----------



## Snowcat Operations

Thats a .14 cent increase since this morning!


----------



## Jim_S RIP

$3.05 this morning in Leesburg VA. 

regular gas was $2.63.


----------



## RedRocker

It's pushing 3.30 in the DFW area.


----------



## BigAl RIP

$3.75 in Calif.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

3.73 the other day.


----------



## Deadly Sushi

Regular unleaded is $3.45 here up by .55 cents from a week ago. :frustrado


----------



## Melensdad

Regular is $3.09 to $3.19 here.  Diesel is running about $0.40 more and E-85 is $0.30 less than Regular.  I paid $2.99 for premium less than a week ago.


----------



## DaveNay

B_Skurka said:


> Regular is $3.09 to $3.19 here.  Diesel is running about $0.40 more and E-85 is $0.30 less than Regular.  I paid $2.99 for premium less than a week ago.



I've got 500 gallons @ $2.65 sitting in the tank out in the yard.


----------



## Bulldog1401

$3.51 in northern New York....Talk about gouging...


----------



## Bulldog1401

OOOP'S, I blinked and it is no $3.69. This is really getting bad..:frustrado


----------



## Thiokol2track

Bulldog1401 said:


> OOOP'S, I blinked and it is no $3.69. This is really getting bad..:frustrado



Yep filled up today it was  $3.57 in ma.  I went to ny on tue. and saw it @   3.69


----------



## Jim_S RIP

filled up in Leesburg, VA for $3.47 yesterday.

Jim


----------



## Snowcat Operations

I'm going to produce my own BioDiesel!


----------



## Bulldog1401

I saw an article some where on a ski resort that tested cooking oil in their diesel cats. They said they liked it. You just have to filter it well and keep it warm enough for the proper viscosity. Once its running, thats easy. just recirculate coolant through the tank with a pipe. One of my big trucks had this system that was part of the block heater and also prevented gelling while underway.


----------



## Snowcat Operations

You can also add additives so it wont gel up.


----------



## RedRocker

http://www.evolutionbiodieselkits.com/


----------



## Av8r3400

Are you brewing, RedRocker?  Those kits look pretty good.


----------



## Melensdad

Snowcat Operations said:


> You can also add additives so it wont gel up.


Yup, one of the big problems with veggie based Bio-Diesel is that it gels up at much higher temperatures than dino-based diesel.  Anti-Gel is a must, we had problems with fuel lines clogging because there is almost no way to keep a fuel line warm between the fuel tank and the engine.  Anti-Gel works wonders to keep the fuel flowing.  Before I retired we used Power Service conditioner/anti-gel in the fleet, it works very well.  One year before we started using Power Service, when temps got below -10 F we'd mix in some kerosene too.  Not emissions legal, but no inspector in his right mind was out inspecting emissions when the temps drop below -10 F anyway.


----------



## RedRocker

Av8r3400 said:


> Are you brewing, RedRocker?  Those kits look pretty good.



No, but I'm kicking it around, I'm sure as soon as I bought the kit that used oil would be hard to find.


----------



## Robert45

Northern California diesel is $4.29 a gallon. It went from $3.73 to $4.29 in a weeks time. Scary, wonder where it well stop at


----------



## RedRocker

Robert45 said:


> Northern California diesel is $4.29 a gallon. It went from $3.73 to $4.29 in a weeks time. Scary, wonder where it well stop at



When the economy collapses cause none of us can afford to drive to work.


----------



## ddrane2115

Robert45 said:


> Northern California diesel is $4.29 a gallon. It went from $3.73 to $4.29 in a weeks time. Scary, wonder where it well stop at


 

right where the Americans say, enough, and the tanks set FULL for a few days, then you will see them begging you to buy it.........tell them no, the bus is easier, better, cheaper and you dont have to buy their overpriced diesel...............

or you can vote for a change this year..............hillarious wins, gas is 5.00, bama wins, 6.00, his rag heads need the money, mcpain wins, and who knows.

Nader or a 3rd party wins, one that is NOT OWNED by the oil companies and you will see it at 2.00 again.


----------



## California

Guys, stick your heads up out of your foxholes and look around. 

Competition for energy by China and India would continue to drive the price up even if we reduced our demand by some major percentage.

It won't get cheaper. 

If your goal is to reduce your cost of living, then using less energy will help. But the price per gallon/btu/bbl whatever won't fall if US demand levels off. 

These other countries will take up the slack as their citizens step up their per capita energy consumption to approach our levels.

US boycotts won't make much difference.


----------



## Dargo

Yeesh!  I got a quote for a geothermal system for both of my houses and both barns.  The way I have it figured I'd break even for the costs when I'm about 106 years old. 

That really sounds like a great way to go, but the initial costs are going to have to come down before it is widely accepted.  I think it is one of the most efficient methods to heat and cool and is obviously renewable.  The estimate for the geothermal systems and a standby generator sized to allow me to run everything if the power is out was over 70k.


----------



## Tractors4u

ddrane2115 said:


> right where the Americans say, enough, and the tanks set FULL for a few days, then you will see them begging you to buy it.........tell them no, the bus is easier, better, cheaper and you dont have to buy their overpriced diesel...............


 

No, not really.  The personal diesel fuel purchased vs the dielsel fuel purchased for industrial use is a drop in the bucket.  They know the 18 wheelers are going have to buy, so they can jack it up as high as they want.  I drive a diesel pick up and I know how bad it stings to fill it up.  I realize however, that there is no bus that I can ride to work, parking my truck will not get the prices any lower.  I knew when I bought it that it was not going to get the MPG of a Prius either.


----------



## REDDOGTWO

ddrane2115 said:


> right where the Americans say, enough, and the tanks set FULL for a few days, then you will see them begging you to buy it.........tell them no, the bus is easier, better, cheaper and you dont have to buy their overpriced diesel...............
> 
> or you can vote for a change this year..............hillarious wins, gas is 5.00, bama wins, 6.00, his rag heads need the money, mcpain wins, and who knows.
> 
> Nader or a 3rd party wins, one that is NOT OWNED by the oil companies and you will see it at 2.00 again.


 
Can you tell me where you obtained the future gasoline figures for each candidate?  Which ragheads does Obama have?

Are there any facts to base your remarks on or are the just pure biased conjecture?


----------



## RedRocker

So the President sets the price of fuel? WOW!


----------



## ddrane2115

REDDOGTWO said:


> Can you tell me where you obtained the future gasoline figures for each candidate? Which ragheads does Obama have?
> 
> Are there any facts to base your remarks on or are the just pure biased conjecture?


 
it was tongue in cheek of course, but bushy being an oil man does not want to see it go down............he is thinking of the clown he sees in the mirror.

as for rag head, he could care less

if we told them no thanks we have our own, makes sense to get our own if we are having trouble with pricing of theirs.   Now clinton tied up the oil fields when he was there, whos to think hillarious would change that.

Oh and we dont sell ours we use it for inside our borders only


----------



## ddrane2115

RedRocker said:


> So the President sets the price of fuel? WOW!


 

bushy = oil man

no he does not directly, but if he would get some balls, get off his butt and open what clinton closed and stop the bs then we might see 2 bucks a gallon again.  

someone said 25.00 a barrel to get it out of the ground, if we did that ourselves and produced gas at a per barrel rate of even 60.00 then that would be good right?

I am meaning the govt do it, not the oil companies, take over some refineries and start producing for us.   The major oil can shove it, and it wont take long to get them back in line........


----------



## Tractors4u

ddrane2115 said:


> I am meaning the govt do it, not the oil companies, take over some refineries and start producing for us........


 
Absolutely no way.  When the government gets it's hands on anything the effiecency rate goes way down.  Having the government run it will not bring prices down.  Look at the U.S. Postal Service.  When was the last time the price of a stamp went down?


----------



## Av8r3400

Fact #1 (_*again*_) - Oil prices are set by commodity speculators.  IE you and your IRA's, 401k's and other investments.

Fact #2 - for the past 5 years (at least) diesel has been 20% more than gas.  Now diesel is $4.10 and gas is $3.30 (here in WI).  Simply calculated 3.3/4.1=.8 or 80% gas to diesel ratio.  Nothing new here, just higher prices.


$2.00 fuel is a pipe dream never to be seen again.  Ever.

If that communist Nader is elected,   not only has hell frozen over, but I'll bet his ties to the eco-nazis will guarantee fuel $10/gallon.


----------



## ddrane2115

Tractors4u said:


> Absolutely no way. When the government gets it's hands on anything the effiecency rate goes way down. Having the government run it will not bring prices down. Look at the U.S. Postal Service. When was the last time the price of a stamp went down?


 

Dont worry guys, I have not went overboard, but do wish that someone with some concern for Americans would take the reins.

I have no trouble with the mail service BTW.   I love sending back offers I get from CC companies etc with lots of weight to them..........at postage paid/due.


----------



## RedRocker

Av8r3400 said:


> Fact #1 (_*again*_) - Oil prices are set by commodity speculators.  IE you and your IRA's, 401k's and other investments.
> 
> Fact #2 - for the past 5 years (at least) diesel has been 20% more than gas.  Now diesel is $4.10 and gas is $3.30 (here in WI).  Simply calculated 3.3/4.1=.8 or 80% gas to diesel ratio.  Nothing new here, just higher prices.
> 
> 
> $2.00 fuel is a pipe dream never to be seen again.  Ever.
> 
> If that communist Nader is elected,   not only has hell frozen over, but I'll bet his ties to the eco-nazis will guarantee fuel $10/gallon.



Diesel has only exceeded gas here in the last year or so, before that it was below or the same as regular.


----------



## Av8r3400

I've been driving diesels since the 80's and diesel has been more than 'regular' here for at least 5 years.


----------



## Tractors4u

Av8r3400 said:


> I've been driving diesels since the 80's and diesel has been more than 'regular' here for at least 5 years.


 
I bought my first diesel in 1996.  The lowest I remember seeing diesel sell for at that time was $1.06 at a truck stop outside of Elizabethtown Kentucky.  

When I left for Iraq in August of 2006 diesel fuel was going for about $2.75.  When I got back 1 year later it was selling for about the same.  In the last 8 months it has increased by $1.00.  Something is seriously wrong.  It all started after hurricanes Katrina and Rita.  I heard that there was refinary damage and damage to some rigs in the Gulf of Mexico.  It was supposed to be a temporary increase because of the shortage.  Temporary my butt, it has been going up steadily.  In the summer they say that the price goes up because of vacation travel and then in the winter it goes up because of the use of home heating oil.  Why do they even bother making excuses anymore?


----------



## ddrane2115

cause America buys it, AGAIN, dont buy foreign oil, use ours......it is cheaper........let them have it all, drown in the stuff, they will come back begging...............

or we could all just cut back say 10% of our driving..................

or we could take the Iraq oil wells as ours, they have plenty, and we have helped them so much.


----------



## RedRocker

I understand why it all goes up, just never figured out why diesel became
higher than premium when for decades it was cheaper than regular. It's my understanding that each barrel produces X amount of several products and diesel is cheaper to refine than gasoline. I just figured we're being prepped for a bunch of high mileage diesels that are coming down the pike in the future, heaven forbid the consumer get a break by driving a small diesel that gets 60 mpg without paying through the nose for fuel to offset the screwing we were getting at the gas pump.


----------



## waybomb

I am not sure about this but,

Diesel, heating fuel, and jet fuel are very close to each other in the refining process.

This has been one of the coldest winters requiring more heating fuel, more people are driving diesels than ever before, and commercial air traffic is way up. All leading to less available refining capacity.


But in the end, it all goes back to the speculators on the business.


----------



## RedRocker

That would explain why it's more expensive, but not why it's higher than premium when it was below regular. If you get X gallons of gas and x gallons of diesel from a barrel of oil, what has changed to make diesel higher than gas? It should either all go up or all go down in proportion I'd think.


----------



## waybomb

That would be a good theory, until traders get in and jack the price all around so they make a profit off of us.

The price of a commodity has not much to do with the cost to make or convert it. I.E. the total average cost to extract oil is only about 24 bucks a barrel. 

Commodity prices are set by the traders. And none want to take a bath. Unless somebody else sells wholesale at a much lower price and floods the market, there is no incentive for speculators to trade at lower prices. As a producer, a bystander in this whole thing, you gladly take the money to the bank, knowing full well this won't last long, and that someday the commodity will sell less than it costs to obtain it.


----------



## bczoom

RedRocker said:


> That would explain why it's more expensive, but not why it's higher than premium when it was below regular. If you get X gallons of gas and x gallons of diesel from a barrel of oil, what has changed to make diesel higher than gas? It should either all go up or all go down in proportion I'd think.


When the EPA mandated cleaner diesel (ultra-low sulfur), 2 big things happened.
1.  The cost to produce the diesel went up.
2.  It then met the requirements of European and other areas.

A lot of our refined diesel is being exported.  Supply/demand and the increased cost to make it ultra-low sulfur is why the price is high.


----------



## RedRocker

Is sulfur something they add in or refine out? I always thought it was strange that un-leaded was higher than leaded regular back in the day. Charge you more not to put the lead in. LOL  It would be interesting to know if it really does cost more to make the low sulfur stuff.


----------



## Av8r3400

Sulfur (like lead in gasoline) was an addition.  It's purpose was as a lubricant to the injectors and injection pump.  It has/had no effect on power or operation other than that.


----------



## RedRocker

So we're paying more for them to put less sulfur in...got it!


----------



## waybomb

That's why the marketing folks make the big bucks.......


----------



## California

Sulphur is a contaminant pumped up with the crude. 'Sweet' crude, naturally low sulphur, historically always got a higher price per barrel. 

I don't know about Texas and the Gulf, but the crude from Venezuela is high sulphur and needed more costly refining than for example Pennsylvania sweet crude, to get the sulphur down to marketable levels. I think Saudi Arabia's crude is also Sweet, I'm not sure.

The refining process to get the sulphur out of diesel also reduces its lubricity, so a lubricity additive has to be put back in. I think this was learned after costly damage from the low-sulphur conversion in 1993.

And a bit of trivia - Valero is ahead of the game, they were the first to buy sulphur reduction technology and are now ready to refine whatever they can get, while some other refineries are limited by their sulphur-extraction capability.

I think the reason Unleaded cost more than Lead-added was because it was made from a higher grade input, while lead was a cheap way to boost octane of low grade feedstock.


----------



## mbsieg

Gasoline  	                                                          19.3
Distillate Fuel Oil (Inc. Home Heating and Diesel Fuel) 9.83
Kerosene Type Jet Fuel 	                                            4.24
Residual Fuel Oil 	                                                2.10
Petroleum Coke 	                                                       2.10
Liquified Refinery Gases 	                                     1.89
Still Gas 	                                                             1.81
Asphalt and Road Oil 	                                              1.13
Petrochemical Feed Supplies 	                                  0.97
Lubricants 	                                                           0.46
Kerosene 	                                                          0.21
Waxes 	                                                                   0.04
Aviation Fuel 	                                                         0.04
Other Products 	                                                       0.34
Processing Gain 	                                               2.47
Source: EIA March 2004 Data   What comes out of a barrel of oil from gas buddie


----------



## Bulldog1401

Diesel is now $4.49 in parts of New York....


----------



## Cowboyjg

N.E. Tn.......Diesel @ Wally World (Typically the lowest priced here)

Overnight.....$3.89  to $4.14 pg


I'm buyin a freakin horse!!!.........


----------

