# It's a SUPRISE! Pt 1



## Lyndon

I like big machinery. I'm an electrical Control Systems Troubleshooter by trade and have gotten to work on a wide variety of machinery.  This is the story of collecting SNOW CATS across 5 time zones. I also like VW's, and that's where this story starts. But first we'll take a look at a really big machine. This is the GYM OF EGYPT. It was the largest electric shovel ever built. That's my 1956 VW with my buddy Brad standing next to it. All of the giant shovels and monster draglines have been dismantled, except the Gym's sister shovel, THE SILVER SPADE, which is now a museum piece. Most of them lived in an area called Egypt Valley, the coal minimg district around Fleshing Ohio. Brad had a farm there. The corner of Ohio that touches Pennsylvenia near Pitsburg, and neighboring Wheeling West Virginia is where these huge machines served out their lives.


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## Lyndon

We got our first VW New in 1961. That was "Mom's" car. I became the quintessential "VW Hippy" and eventually owned roughly 30 VW's and half a dozen junker Porsches which are glorified VW designs. At this point I need to give proper credit to a legend amongst VW enthusiasts. His name was John Muir, and he was the author of:*HOW TO KEEP YOUR VOLKSWAGEN ALIVE*, commonly refered to as the "IDIOT BOOK". This is the "Bible' of the VW industry. I highly recomend that anyone owning a VW powered anything, obtain a copy. Most VW people are very fimiliar with it. Below are a few pages out of an older edition. One's with the spirial wire binding are collectable.


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## Lyndon

In 1993 I came across this old red snow cat in La Pine Oregon. I was on my way to see Crater Lake National Monument, but I never made it there. IT HAD A HAND CRANK!, You never see then except at vintage Meets! It had the ORIGINAL 40 "horse" engine! I couldn't believe it! This was for me! It took me 6 months to come up with the 6800$, during which I built a trailer, a monster tilt-deck. Below ST4 #368, which still remains perhaps the nicest, all original ST4 I have ever seen. Thus begun my career as a Snow Cat Collector.


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## Lyndon

I eventually ammased quite a collection. 11 ST4's, 2 Trac Master's, one Snow Master, a Bombardier Dual-Drive Muskeg Tractor, a J5, a Bombi, 2 Tucker 443's, a Tucker Kitten, and a Kristi. These are early pictures and our orange cat "Tripper" managed to get into almost every photo. He's laying on the roof sunning himself or on one of the fenders or running thru the grass. We never noticed untill we had the photos developed. the ORANGE Trac Master on the trailer with the Roll cage is the "Famed" FBI Rig that has it's own thread.


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## Lyndon

Something about the "thrill of the hunt". I traveled from Maine to Alaska in search of Snow Cat's, and eventually purchased and owned machines from: Alaska, Washington, Idaho, Wyoming, Oregon, California, Maine, the Yukon Territory, the Northwest Territory, Brittish Columbia, and Alberta. My J5 came from Kossborher/Piston Bully headquarters in Grey Maine, farthers east, and the Cold Bay ST4 came from 5 time zones to the west, west of Hawaii in the Aleutian Island chain of Alaska. 4 ST4's I got from the Northwest Territory, making them the fartherst North, and a beautiful Tucker443 from the Forest Service in California would hold the title for "Southern Snow cat". 



Pictures are from Top to bottom: Neil and Myself in his 912 Porsche on our way from the Bombardier Museum in Quebec to Kossborher in Maine, Picking up the Kristi in Idahoe on my big tilt deck, Tripper on one of the Alberta ST4's,  Bill Guthrie and my first Tucker 443, and my first Trac Master.


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## Lyndon

I was working and living in Washington state near Seattle for Washington Crane and Hoist, an outfit that built fairly safistcated overhead bridge cranes mostly for Boeing. Lots of fancy Radio and Infra Red remote control stuff. Just the kind of stuff a Control Electrician like me does. I rented a house right on the edge of their property, which is where the first set of the "Collection" pictures was made. It was great. Their shop had an over head crane and my roomate was a welder. I was "IN"! Then it happened. I got a job offer to go to work on the Alaska Pipeline and an Electrical Insector. Wow, get paid to see Alaska and maybe find more Snow Cat's too! It was only a 6 to 9 month job, but I gave my notice at Washngton Crane, and am still working in Alaska, some 15 Years later! So much for 6 to 9 months!


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## Lyndon

Working for Alyeska was great. THEY HAD SNOW CATS! In the course of my work I got to travel the entire 800 mile Trans Alaska Pipeline corridor, and that put me in places where they USE snow cats.


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## Bulldog1401

O.K.  Enough!! I want a job where I can do electric work out of a snowcat too....Pick me! Me! Me! Me!


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## Lyndon

I'll see what I can do. Currently there are 35 Licensed electricians working for me under my Alaska Electrical Administrators license.>
As I made friends in alaska I got to know a man that had been a Propagne delivery guy for 10 years and then a UPS delivery guy for another 15 who was about to retire. I bought an ST4 from him that he and a partner, a Colonel from the near by Army base used to keep a runway groomed to land their bush planes with skiis on. I sat and wrote while he ratteled off the location of every ST4 for 200 miles, names of the individuals, how to get there, like: " just after the fallen down barn theres a little driveway with no mailbox....". so now I had to get my new prize home to Washington. Thus begun what was to end up as 7 trips down the Aaska Highway, 1968 miles from my house to Fairbanks. 
Besides this collection of bombardier B-12, my associate in Fairbanks had a bunch of Nodwells, Nodwell chieftans, and several Formost rigs.


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## Lyndon

Crossing the Arctic Circle for the first time in 1994. Inspecting on the Trans Alaska Pipeline I crossed the Arctic Circle between 300 and 500 times. Now that I work in the Prudhoe Bay Oilfields I fly over this spot once every 3 weeks.


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## couchloafer

Keep up the Great stories Lyndon!!!!


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## Lyndon

The 7 trips down the ALCAN, or Alaska Canada Highway took me thru  White Horse, in the Yukon Territory. These are the only photo's I have of this unique spot. At this spot sat 200 Snow Trac's, possibly the largest collection of Snow Cats in the world at the time, and certainly the largest grooping of ST4's anywhere on the planet. This is NorthWest Tell's lot, the headquarters for the phone company and the Snow Master is their last machine. It was also one of the highest serial number units I ever tracked down, built as one of last 10 machines. The head engineer, Rory Corniel, gave me the Polar Bear License Plates out of a huge barrel of old plates. They were only issued for a few years in the Northwest Tr. and are no longer available. The mechanics that worked this facility knew more about Snow Trac's than the factory did, and related all kinds of neat snow cat adventure stories. Along the remote streeches of the ALCAN there were Microwave relay stations every 40 miles. Each one had an ST4 to access the mountain-top equipment. They originally lived at the base of the mountain in  little specially built garages. Sattellite systems have replaced many of the installations, others were abandon. One had it's own aerial tramway for access. Eventually I tracked down and bought out all of their spare parts and 5 of their machines. Some of their machines had very low serial numbers. On the Manufacturing Number Year list posted elsewhere on this forum there is one lone entry, indicating that in 1962 or 1963 they manufactured and sold 200 machines. It was the largest sale made in the history of the company. Other years they usually made and sold 125 or less. This was the sale to Northwest Tell, snow Trac's single biggest customer. A Marmot ate the wooden floor out of one machine parked in one of these remote locations!


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## Snowcat Operations

OK I just read this thread faster than any other..........  Now where is the rest?  LYNDON dont stop!  Brew that pot of extra strong coffee and keep going!


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## Lyndon

While working on a big project to install Fibre Optic Cable along the entire length of the 800 mile Trans Alaska Pipeline, the Engineer I worked under tipped me off that the contractor was about to get in Big Trouble, and that I would do well to "Distance Myself" from them. So for a bit I left working for the Pipeline and went to work for a private contractor in Fairbanks. The Engineer was right, the contractor DID get in a bunch of hot water. With the new employer I got free housing, and a healthy salery, so for a year I moved to North Pole Alaska and lived there as a full time resident. The housing was a trailer house in the middle of a 2 mile square junkyard! It dated back to before the pipeline was built. You like JUNKYARDS? well this was a huge one! One day while exploring around in the junkyard I found an old carcass of what appeared to be a Snow Cat. Upon closer inspection: WOW! The serial number one! This was worth investigating. It was a make I had never heard of. But then I put it together from WHERE it was manufactured, Logan Utah, home of Thiokol! For a Snow Cat collector it was like finding the HOLY GRAIL!
I had just found *THE FIRST EVER THIOKOL!* Here's the final resting place of the first Thiokol. It's covered elsewhere in the forum, and was a 4 track machine. In the first picture it's got the door open and is pretty well hidden in the snow.(dirty yellow)


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## Lyndon

When I got my first Snow Cat, I spent more time actually running the machine than I did collecting. In the first season, 1994, I made 24 'Expeditions'. Kept a journal and photos of every trip. That year alone filled a whole photo album. I went to: Greenwater, right at the foot of Mt. Raineer in the Cascades, to Sweetgrass butte off the North Cascades Highway on Xmass day, Across McKenzie Pass in Oregon in record snows, to Crater lake National Monument, Paulina Lake Lodge another volcano in Oregon, Salmon La Sac in the cascades, Up Mount Saint Hellens, and all around the base of Mt. Raineer just outside the National Park boundry. I didn't have another machine and there is NO CALLING TRIPPLE A FOR A TOW FROM THE SIDE OF MT. RAINEER IN A SNOW CAT, so I rebuilt and fixed everything, carried enough spares and tools to build a new machine from scratch. We made it thru the whole season, all 24 trips without getting stuck or breaking down. All in a 1963,(31 year old!) ST4 with the original 1192 CC "40 Horse".


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## Lyndon

On the trip to Salmon La Sac you pass thru Roslyn WA, where the series *NORTHERN EXPOSURE* was filmed. In the opening scenes was this old Tucker 443 pictured below. You guy's didn't get this one in the Snow Cat's in the Movies & on TV Thread did you?


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## Lyndon




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## Lyndon

Off season when there was no snow, we either worked on restoring machines, or TOOK THEM TO THE SHOW! This is at the VW Grand Nationals.


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## Lyndon

They were a real "Hit" at the VW Meets. This is at the Northwest Vintage Meet. The ST4's really drew a crowd.


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## Lyndon

Old VW enthusiasts would approach me and say something to the effect of:"I've been in VW's for 30 years and I've never seen one of these". We won various awards and trophies.


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## Lyndon

One of the side effects of Showing at the Meets was that we got written up alot in VW Magazines which led to the HOT VW's article (circulation 12 million) and the VW Trends article (circulation 2 million). The circulation numbers are how many subscribers they each had. More were sold in stores and off news stands that they had subscribers. I got piles of mail after that from countries all ovr the world.


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## Lyndon

At one VW Meet we instituted a:"*HAND CRANK COMPETITION* This was a "Beat the Clock" kind of competition. You had to make sure your machine was out of gear, turn on the Ignition, go around to the front and crank it with the Hand Crank, then close the hood and stow the crank handel back in it's storeage place. Earl, Ron and I could all do it in about one minute. This event totally "Stole the Show". Everybody in the entire meet came over to watch. We let the public participate. They Loved it! Also at the Vintage Meets I met several more legendary VW Icons. People were quick to spot the older vintage VW Parts used on the machines, which I've written about in depth elsewhere on the Forum. 

 Attending these meets led to me forming the ST4 Owners Association, who's motto was: Dedicated to the Preservation of the Rare Swedish Snow Porsche.
The Plaque was an award given out at our first meet. Everyone got a prize, BEST Engine, BEST Paint, Oldest Machine, Traveled Farthest to Attend the Meet...


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## Ice Queen

Thank you Lyndon, very interesting thread.........more, more..........


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## Bulldog1401

oh yeah  don't stop now!!


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## Lyndon

*EVERY SNOW CAT HAS A STORY* This one, originally belonged to the municipal Airport at Prince Rupert BC. It has it's own "Thread" under:Great Stories, Brooks Olson... These are Before and After Restoration Pictures. I once ran an Add in Hemings Motor News that featured a Picture of this machine. Hemmings later purchased an ST4, and put it in their Museum. A few years later they generated a Christmas Card depicting a Snow Trac Towing a Corvair. I believe we have it on the Forum, but if someone wants to attach it here feel free.


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## Lyndon

*EVERY SNOW CAT HAS A STORY* Earl's # 196, gets special mention. It is , or was one of the 200 ST4 that served along the ALCAN, is one of the 200 machines that lived at White Horse, is one of the machines sold on the 200 Machine's Year, and is one of the oldest operating ST4's in North America. It originally belonged to NorthWest Tell, but they were owned by the Canadian Railways which was in turn owned by the Canadian Government. (Blue With "W"s on fenders)


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## utahwilson

Lyndon,

Enjoyable read, makes me want to call in sick tomorrow (12" of snow today) and head up and work on the track master.

-Kevin


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## Lyndon

At the "Owners Meet", A Trac Master Towing another Trac Master(not Earl's #196) and #196.


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## Lyndon

*EVERY SNOW CAT HAS A STORY*

This is The FBI Track Master on it's Maiden voyage, after sitting at the FBI Office in Portland Oregon for 25 Years. It had 107 Original Miles, and 50 Original Hours, and everything except one of the dual tanks worked. It has it's own 'Thread'. You can see Earls #196 hiding in the background. It was supposed to be the "Back-up" support vehicle in case the Trac Master gave trouble. The Trac Master never missed a beat, but #196 developed a fuel problem, which we quickly resolved and were on our way.


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## NorthernRedneck

Excellent thread!!!!!  Keep 'em coming!  

So where are all these snowtracs now?  Do you still have a collection of them?


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## Lyndon

*EVERY SNOW CAT HAS A STORY* When I went back to work for the Pipeline in Alaska, I worked for a specialty subcontractor that did all the inspection work, Corrosion, X-ray, Electrical, and Certification of Welders. Their office was right next to AT&T Alascom's office. They had a nice little BOMBI. I inquired about it one day. Didn't get much of a response. I said:"hey, if you ever go to sell that thing, give me a call" and left my business card. 2 years later, 500 miles North, reading the Fairbanks Daily News Miner at one of the camps in the Prudhoe Bay Oilfield, I come across this add: "Bombardier Track Rig, submit bids to Barbra Egalbretton" and gave some Anchorage address. the last line of the Add said:"machine can be seen at ...." and gave an address. I imediately recognized the address. I submitted a bid. A month later Barbra calls me up and informs me that I was "High Bidder" and goes on to volunteer that there were something like 70 bidders! A lot of them thought it would go for 50$. I had looked at the invoice, and AT&T had paid quite a high price for it(63,000). People in alaska have 2 and 3 Snow Mobiles, that they give 10, to 12,000$ for sitting in their garages. And they are fully insured for Fire/Theft/Collision like a car. So I had bid it at 10,001 dollars. The next highest bid was 7000. I had "left a lot of money on the table" but was satisfied because to me, a 5 seater snow cat was a lot nicer than a snowmobile. Full enclosed, Heated with whindsheld, wipers lights....what I had failed to notice when I inspected it 2 years earlier was that it only had 4 Hours on it! Bill Guthrie later informed me that it was easily resellable for at least that so I didn't feel too bad about the price. It had an Arctic engine heater system that had acted like a STILL and eventually caused the Glycol in the Antifreeze to gell up and seperate. This in turn plugged up the heater core. I blew out the system with hot water, cleaned the carb, and I had a NEW Snow cat! There wasn't so much as a ding on one grouser. Below: At Yellowstone National Park, after driving this it and my original "Old-Red"(#368) ST4 to see Old Faithfull.


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## Lyndon

Generally I only had 12 snow cats at one time, all in various stages of restoration. I would really go thru them thuroughly, up-grade them for relaibility, play with them for a few years, then sell them by private sale. I never made "Big-Bucks", but I broke even and got to have a lot of fun and go to a lot of neat places. I have sold off all but the J5 Bombardier, which is sitting in Weiser, Idahoe waiting for a new home. However Earl stores #196 at my place, so even though I don't OWN a snow cat, I Have one.


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## Lyndon

I also Collected ST4 Parts, Literature, and Service Manuals. These I used to proudly show at VW Vintage Meets with original shipping tags from Westerasmaskiner, and places like White Horse scrawled on them. I bought out a Snow Trac Dealer, and Northwest Tell of all their spare parts. I Traveled to every dealer in North America and got to know the owner of AKTIV, as well as the parts franchise in Sweden. Great People! At the height of my collecting I had eventually collected at least ONE of every part for every Model of Snow Trac, 2 Belt, 3, Belt, 4, Belt and 5 Belt. Much of this was *N.O.S.* Which stands for New Old Stock, original factory replacement parts. For the parts I didn't have N.O.S., I would have a machine that I could rob the part off of and have a copy made. 

Below is the Ex Alyeska Pipeline Ambulance tht I got from the UPS Guy and the Colonel in Fairbanks. I started working for the Pipeline some years after they had already sold off their ST4's and switched to Tucker's. I quizzed most of the head Mechanics at the 12 pump stations along the pipeline about them and scored several service manuals that failed to get sold off with the machines when they went to auction.


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## Lyndon

*THE RESCUE* Here,at just shy of 10,000 foot, on formidable Mt. Baker, we rescued a Snowmobiler who went more than 25 feet down a hole in the snow where there was a streem running. Mt. Baker has Active Thermal Steam Vents near the top. We arrived with 2 machines at the same time as a bunch of Mushers with their sleds and dog teams. Both the Mushers and the Snowmobilers would get bogged down in the waist deep powder on steeper hills. We were slower, bring up the rear so to speak. But the little Snow trac's would march right thru the tough spots and that left them sort of groomed so the mushers would blast on ahead and be waiting for us at the next impass.


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## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Great thread Lyndon!  Thanks!


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## Lyndon

I eventually tired of maintaining 3 trucks, 3 trailers, 20 batteries, 15 engines and 200 tires and sold off the collection. The mass of Literature including some rare factory  photo's went to Warren, in Mazama WA. Included was my "little black book". It was sort of like Indiana Jones' fathers (Sean Connery) diary of his quest for the Holy Grail, and had locations and names and numbers of every contact I had made. Owning the collection was very time consuming and right at the edge of my financial capabilities. I figgured for what I had in it I could Ski for the rest of my life and wanted to invest my energies elsewhere. Finally the 1000th person said: "you should write a book". Along came Bob S. and Doc and started this forum where I could share some of my hard earned knowlege with others. Bob S, and Doc's efforts have certainly made Snow Cat collecting a recognizable National Hobby.


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## Lyndon

I also "Showed" the J5 and a rare John Deere Lindeman crawler tractor, one of 1100 built between 1936 and 1946, at Farm and Tractor shows. this is from the Lynden(no relation) Logging and Tractor show. suprisingly most of the loggers had never seen a J5, so it was the center of attraction.


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## teledawg

Lyndon said:


> *EVERY SNOW CAT HAS A STORY* Earl's # 196, gets special mention. It is , or was one of the 200 ST4 that served along the ALCAN, is one of the 200 machines that lived at White Horse, is one of the machines sold on the 200 Machine's Year, and is one of the oldest operating ST4's in North America. It originally belonged to NorthWest Tell, but they were owned by the Canadian Railways which was in turn owned by the Canadian Government. (Blue With "W"s on fenders)


Lyndon,

Great thread. 

I've seen # 196 in person and it indeed is a very nice ST4. It has specially made ST30 drive sprockets on it that were cast by Lyndon that are thicker than the factory design for longer wear. 

I own and operate #163 here in Alaska so it is a bit older (1960) then #169, but it is not in nearly as good shape. I know of only one ST4 older (1958) here in Alaska that is still running.


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## teledawg

Lyndon said:


> *EVERY SNOW CAT HAS A STORY*
> 
> This is The FBI Track Master on it's Maiden voyage, after sitting at the FBI Office in Portland Oregon for 25 Years. It had 107 Original Miles, and 50 Original Hours, and everything except one of the dual tanks worked. It has it's own 'Thread'. You can see Earls #196 hiding in the background. It was supposed to be the "Back-up" support vehicle in case the Trac Master gave trouble. The Trac Master never missed a beat, but #196 developed a fuel problem, which we quickly resolved and were on our way.
> View attachment 33849


 
Lyndon,

I love seeing these photos of the FBI Rig in it's former years. As you know I own and operate the FBI Rig here in Alaska. It really is a privilege to own and operate such a cat. It turns heads where ever I take it and it has never failed to do what I've asked it to do. 

Many thanks for posting the photos and my all means post more...



Thanks, Fred


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## couchloafer

I couldnt agree more Fred, please keep posting! I have also had the pleasure of spending time with Lyndon and have seen #196 in person. It was one of the most memorable days I have had in the last decade. Thanks for taking the time to share all of your experiences and knowledge with us Lyndon !!!!


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## Snowcat Operations

Excellent thread lyndon.  Heres some rep points!


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## JSX

couchloafer said:


> I couldnt agree more Fred, please keep posting! I have also had the pleasure of spending time with Lyndon and have seen #196 in person. It was one of the most memorable days I have had in the last decade. Thanks for taking the time to share all of your experiences and knowledge with us Lyndon !!!!



That was a very good day! It was cool getting a chance to talk to the Snow-Trac guru again. The first time I saw one of these cats was at the VW Vintage Meet in the pix above, I believe in '96? Lyndon was right, these things pretty much stole the show, I know I spent most of my time there checking out the cats and trying to get as much information from him I could. The one I liked the most was the FBI rig, prolly because of the wide tracks. 

It was really cool to meet teledawg there also, and see his pix of the FBI rig restored and being used, that is one great looking cat.

Keep the stories comming Lyndon!


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## pixie

Thanks for the Great pictures and stories, Lyndon 

Your J5 looks like it just rolled out of the factory !!


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## Lyndon

It's a Suprise was the introduction to Part 2. But before we go there, here's the linc's to various of the supporting stories and technical know-how for primarily ST4's with a limited amount of general snow cat 'know-how'. I have Mike of Snowcat Operations to thank for bringing me up to speed on how to post linc's.
Great Snow Cat Stories, encompases Larro Olson's machine and Also covers the *COLD BAY* Snow Cat. 
http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=7954
DB Cooper and the FBI RIG.
http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=8113
Loud VW Engines, goes into detail about sound from the Heat System
http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=13246
Hood Disasters
http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=13166
What Every  Snow Trac Owner Should Know
http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=13167
VW Engine
http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=3895
Tracks ON/ Tracks Off, applies to all tracked snow machnes
http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=3818
Snow Trac Manufacturing History
http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=9271
Snow Trac Brake Systems
http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=9181
Variator, This is a 27 part in-depth look at the Variator. 
http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=4113
Snow Trac Engine ID
http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=6825
Famous Steering Wheel, get's into some of "War-Issue" parts used on Snow Trac's.
http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=4132
Snow Trac Parts ID Lesson
http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=3825
Snow Trac Fuel System
http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=3814
So for that 999th or 1000th person that said: "You should write a Book", well, we're half way there. 
Now for the Suprise. Part 2 is called:*AND THE AWARD GOES TO:...* and it will be it's own new"THREAD".


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## Lyndon

Here's the Linc to part 2, *AND THE AWARD GOES TO....*
http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=25311


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## mtmogs

Fantastic Lyndon! Thanks for your ongoing contributions. They make for great reading and I always learn something new.


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## pixie

Lyndon, you've created a great resource here and Snow-Trac and Track-Master owners should be very appreciative.

Thanks for sharing your photos and insights with us


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## mtn cat

Great post. Kept me up past my bedtime to finish it!


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## Snowcat Operations

Glad you "WROTE" the book Lyndon!

REP POINTS FOR YOU!!!!!!!!!


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## moosebgy

Love the picture looking down on Wizard Island.  That brings back memories of 'working on the rim'.


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## Lyndon

I really screwed up! I left out Mikey! Probably our single biggest contributor at the snow cat forum is Mike, of Snowcat Operations. He's generated some outstanding material. It may take awhile, but here's one important one for ST4 Exhaust:
Snow Master/Snow Trac Exhaust
http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=8503
There are about 200 to sift thru, but in time we'll get them all. I need to find the ones on the starter because his thread is more comprehensive and it's an item that get's asked about alot.


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## Knoydartstag

Ive been loving reading all of what Lyndon has to say about all these machines & adventures, what a guy. I have had to convince the wife that this is not a dating chat site as i've never been off it since i joined!!
can someone advise please, Lyndon earlier in this thread said 
"All in a 1963,(31 year old!) ST4 with the original 1192 CC "40 Horse"
i have #660 & based on brochures i have seen assumed that all ST4's came with a 1600cc? the little aluminium name plate is missing on mine but i have no reason to believe that the engine has been replaced as it has only covered 760miles (148.7 hours) which is genuine, the engine No is 122-146927 can anyone advise what that means & what capacity? thanks


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## Snowtrac Nome

most likely your engine was changed to get more horse power and fresh air heat lyndon sent me a book i will check your numbers and tell you what you have


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## Knoydartstag

Thanks for the quick reply Don, looking forward to any info you may dig out, Ive looked through your profile sure looks like good country you have out there, i was asking Melensdad about the use of a ST in heather & boggy soft ground? i thought that these tools were only used on snow but it looks like thats not the case, do use yours on open hill ground much & if so do you have any issues? Cheers


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## Snowtrac Nome

i know i recognised that prefix i had a motor off a dredge in the shop it was a 1500 out of a early bus it also could be an austrailian built block for 1500 and 1600 engines shoot me a photo and i will do some more research and see if i can't come up with any usefull info


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## Knoydartstag

Don, i'm pulling my hair out trying to navigate this forum,(my first forum) i have taken some crap pics & had to add them to my profile, cant seem to drag them onto this thread.I will try to get better pictures at some point but its pitch black outside just now. I will look forward to any info you may find. If i dont reply for a while i appologise beforehand, i work in the North sea on an oil production installation for a great Houston based oil company, because of the nature of my job i seldom get the chance to go online but my chopper flight is not till Wed morn, cheers for now


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## Snowtrac Nome

i went and looked in your album the numbers don't show up in any of the automotive charts and the fan housing is missing the blower ducts for the heater so i'm guessing it's an industrial 1500 or 1600 it's a verry nice instalation but heater boxes and a fresh air heater would be nice to have hope this is some kind of help. also all the early model snow tracs had a smaller 36 to 40 horse motor in them usualy when the conversion is done they swap out the carb yours looks to have the pict 30  wich is what is supposed to be on it


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## Knoydartstag

Don thanks for that, interesting stuff. There is heater boxes installed at the rear of the engine they are controlled from the cabin maybe a really good retrofit? when i come home from offshore & complete tarting up the paintwork i will take a rake of pictures that will show everyone everything, thanks for your help, i'm enjoying being an ST owner & forum member, Cheers


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## teledawg

Good info on VW Engine ID here: LINK


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## Knoydartstag

Thanks Teledawg that link hit the nail on the head, Cheers


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## Snowcat Operations

I get a kick everytime I revisit this thread!


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## DAVENET

lus:

That was a great read today!


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## Lyndon

Knoydartstag said:


> Ive been loving reading all of what Lyndon has to say about all these machines & adventures, what a guy. I have had to convince the wife that this is not a dating chat site as i've never been off it since i joined!!
> can someone advise please, Lyndon earlier in this thread said
> "All in a 1963,(31 year old!) ST4 with the original 1192 CC "40 Horse"
> i have #660 & based on brochures i have seen assumed that all ST4's came with a 1600cc? the little aluminium name plate is missing on mine but i have no reason to believe that the engine has been replaced as it has only covered 760miles (148.7 hours) which is genuine, the engine No is 122-146927 can anyone advise what that means & what capacity? thanks



A "*122*" is a genuine 1192 CC, 35 HP, VW Industrial. If it has it on the manifold or the block, it can't be any other engine. The manifold is smaller diameter than the later, 1300, 1500, and 1600 VW. This would be the correct original motor for a '63. 
My favorite, and perhaps most original ST4 was a Red '63, #368. In order to keep it as original as possible so that at a car show only the most expert VW buff would spot the descrepancy, I used the original block, fan housing, and accessories but substituted a "Big Bore Kit"(Now obsolete) and snuck in the last year of 40 HP(1965) clean air heater boxes. So it looked original, smelled original, but was actually closer to a 1500, and would have generated closer to 45 or 50 HP.
VW came out with the 1300 in '66, followed a year later by the 1500. I don't believe there ever was a 1300 industrial, but there were 1500's. The change would have occured about 1967 or 1968 as Westermaskiner tended to buy up the end of year production making their engines a year older that the Snow Trac they were installed in. This isn't suprising as they used WAR ISSUE (1936-1945) Steering wheels, and tail lights well into the 70's.


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