# What is so great about Harley Davidson?



## Melensdad

My exec V.P. wants to buy a motorcycle.  Not just any motorcycle, he has a specific H.D. picked out, I honestly cannot remember what model it is, maybe a fatboy?  He is adamant about buying an American made cycle.  

I suggested he might want to look at Victory or Indian.  He ruled them out without consideration.  He just wants a H.D.

So beyond scooters, I know nothing 

So what is so good about H.D., is it just the name, or the look, or the quality or the brotherhood, or what?

Here are a couple differnet Indian photos (Chief & Spirit) and a Victory (Kingpin).  They all look good to me too.  Is there something wrong with these brands?


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## MadReferee

B_Skurka said:
			
		

> So what is so good about H.D., is it just the name, or the look, or the quality or the brotherhood, or what?


Ego, plain and simple.

MadReferee
former AMA pro dirt track racer back in the 70's and 80's


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## Melensdad

MadReferee said:
			
		

> Ego, plain and simple.


OK if it is EGO is that like the guys who wear Rolex watches because they think they are the best but when people who know watches look at them they realize that the guy with the Rolex is wearing a $9000 machine made watch and could have spent his money on a far more exclusive handmade watch instead?  

So why not buy an Indian or a Victory and get a motorcycle that has a similar look and is just as American made, but is more exclusive?


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## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

It's marketing baby!  Brand loyalty is the ultimate goal in building a brand.

Harley Davidson owns the US Motorcycle market.  Especially, when it comes to middle age men.


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## Big Dog

Resale value, mystique and frankly, the other American V-twins are inferior. I have a 86 Tour Glide Classic with 104,000 miles on it and I can get damn near what I paid for it!


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## Melensdad

PBinWA said:
			
		

> It's marketing baby!





			
				Big Dog said:
			
		

> Resale value, mystique and frankly, the other American V-twins are inferior.


 So the Indian is simply not as good?  If that is true, then I can certainly understand the bias in favor of the H.D.  

And I understand the logic of resale value, it can make a big difference in the total cost of ownership.  Sort of like our tractors . . . my Kubota and N.H. would probably sell for their original purchase price, but my Ventrac would have to be deeply discounted to find a buyer.

But mystique.  I'd rather have an RGM, Piaget or other handmade watch to any Rolex.  So I don't understand that one.  Now I do understand advertising and the hypnotism of the masses.  You can use advertising to make the common man 'believe' that something is good but that does not mean that it is in fact better than an alternative.  Again, there are folks who really know their stuff, to those folks I wonder if H.D. is good enough?  And please don't get me wrong, I openly admit to know nothing about these brands so maybe H.D. is really the best brand of production bikes out there.


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## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Big Dog said:
			
		

> Resale value, mystique and frankly, the other American V-twins are inferior. I have a 86 Tour Glide Classic with 104,000 miles on it and I can get damn near what I paid for it!


 
Yeah - but you also own a purple shotgun!


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## BoneheadNW

Before getting married, I owned a couple of Suzukis (known as "rice burners" to the HD riders). One of these bikes was basically a stock 750, but was extrememly light and powerful, which made it very fast and great handling, although it was not the most comfortable thing to ride for more than a couple of hours at a time. HD riders looked down on us because their bikes (more like cars on 2 wheels) were what ours was not: big, heavy, expensive, and made from a company that would not exist unless the U.S. govt bailed them out from going bankrupt.

Can you tell how I feel about HDs? No offense BD. 
Bonehead


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## Cityboy

B_Skurka said:
			
		

> So what is so good about H.D., is it just the name, or the look, or the quality or the brotherhood, or what?


 
All of the above, plus it has also become a status symbol. I know lots of "Harley guys", and they have different reasons for owning them. But to a man, these guys would own nothing else.

An old Marine buddy owned an Electraglide before it was fashonable to do so. Back in the early 80's, you could get a brand new low-end Harley at the dealership in Twentynine Palms for about $2,500. I doubt you could get the low-end Harley for less than 10K now. He almost had me talked into buying one, but another guy in my platoon got smashed up pretty bad on his bike and wound up in traction for about 6+ months and I decided I was not biker material. Back then, it seemed like a Marine a month was killed in a motorcycle accident. Citygirl calls motorcycles "donor-cycles"; as in organ donor. (She's an ICU nurse) At any rate, I still have no desire to own one. I'll stick to my bicycle.

My brother and best friend own Electraglides. Both were bikers before being a biker was cool. My brother had a really loud BSA when he was younger. Now he's 58 and going through his second childhood. Guess he figured he could afford it , so why not? He's in a bike club with a bunch of other middle aged guys. They seem to have a blast just cruising around on the weekends. 

Harley-Davidson has the high demand product that middle-aged men AND women want, whatever their reason for wanting one may be. They have a loyal following like no other product I can think of. It is simply supply and demand of a luxury product at work.

The other bikes you mentioned look pretty nice to me too; but the fact is, they're not Harleys, and they have a looooooong way to go before they acquire anything remotely resembling the Harley mystique.


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## Cityboy

BoneheadNW said:
			
		

> HD riders looked down on us because their bikes (more like cars on 2 wheels) were what ours was not: big, heavy, expensive, and made from a company that would not exist unless the U.S. govt bailed them out from going bankrupt.
> 
> Can you tell how I feel about HDs? No offense BD.
> Bonehead


 
I saw a T-shirt in Easy Rider magazine that your story reminds me of Bone. The caption on the T-shirt said:

*"Riding a Jap Bike is like Fu*king a faggot. They both feel pretty good until someone you know sees you doing it." *

Is that how those mean old Harley guys made you feel?


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## Melensdad

Cityboy said:
			
		

> The other bikes you mentioned look pretty nice to me too; but the fact is, they're not Harleys, and they have a looooooong way to go before they acquire anything remotely resembling the Harley mystique.


So this is NOT the same arguement that Big 3 tractor owners have with minor brands?  I honestly see the Big 3 tractor brands as costing more, but also providing more refinement, better ergonomics, etc.  With H.D. there seems to be no claim that the motorcycles are designed better, more refined, more reliable _(in the old days that was obviously not true)_.  It seems like the H.D. is 'mystique' and 'aura' and not substance, but not saying they are bad, just saying the whole issue of the brand popularity revolves around the brand itself and nothing more?


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## Big Dog

BoneheadNW said:
			
		

> Before getting married, I owned a couple of Suzukis (known as "rice burners" to the HD riders). One of these bikes was basically a stock 750, but was extrememly light and powerful, which made it very fast and great handling, although it was not the most comfortable thing to ride for more than a couple of hours at a time. HD riders looked down on us because their bikes (more like cars on 2 wheels) were what ours was not: big, heavy, expensive, and made from a company that would not exist unless the U.S. govt bailed them out from going bankrupt.
> 
> Can you tell how I feel about HDs? No offense BD.
> Bonehead



None taken........ I've heard it all! My first bike was a Yamaha 750. In ten months I nearly killed myself three times, I didn't own it 12 months. I went with Harley because their big and heavy, alot like me. I had no business on a bike half the weight as my Harley. 

Now your rice burners, I dare you to try and do what I've done on my bike as to traveling. I've done 850 miles a day more times than I can count. I did Loozyana to PA in 22 hours. You ain't doing that on any rice burner! Now I ain't saying the tourers from the Japanese ain't nice, but they sorta look like something you launch instead of ride on..............just my opinion. 

The Harley is the right bike for ME! I don't need to go fast.........quick! But I can run 90mph + all day long on my Harley. Besides, I'd look like a monkey doing a football on anything without fairing and saddle bags..........

BTW......... There is a reason that most custom shops do S&S's motors, they're a evolution engine clone! The Harley V-twin is the strongest air-cooled engine of it's genre out there........IMO.


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## Melensdad

Big Dog said:
			
		

> There is a reason that most custom shops do S&S's motors, they're a evolution engine clone! The Harley V-twin is the strongest air-cooled engine of it's genre out there........IMO.


Now that is a LEGITIMATE reason to buy a H.D.

Any clue how they compare to the Indian or the Victory?  Both of those seem to have homegrown engines that they claim to be of their own design.


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## Cityboy

B_Skurka said:
			
		

> So this is NOT the same arguement that Big 3 tractor owners have with minor brands? I honestly see the Big 3 tractor brands as costing more, but also providing more refinement, better ergonomics, etc. With H.D. there seems to be no claim that the motorcycles are designed better, more refined, more reliable _(in the old days that was obviously not true)_. It seems like the H.D. is 'mystique' and 'aura' and not substance, but not saying they are bad, just saying the whole issue of the brand popularity revolves around the brand itself and nothing more?


 
No, I don't think that at all. I believe Harley is now an extremely high quality product; far more so than they were in the 70's and 80's. I think it is a combination if things that lend Harley the "mystique", high quality being one of its major contributors. 

Those bikes you mentioned are probably no better or worse quality than the Harley, but they have not achieved the level of noteriety that Harley has yet. Harley-Davidson is a family owned company that has been around a long, long time and has had its ups and downs, figured out its problems and is sky rocketing so far past the competetion that its competetors can't even see their dust right now.

I certainly would not write Harley off as a "name-but-no-substance" company. They are filling a want of millions of satisfied customers and have certainly found their market niche.


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## HGM

B_Skurka said:
			
		

> Now that is a LEGITIMATE reason to buy a H.D.
> 
> Any clue how they compare to the Indian or the Victory?  Both of those seem to have homegrown engines that they claim to be of their own design.




The latest version of Indians run S&S engines, back to point one.... 

The Indian bike you showed in your link is nothing more than a warmed over Harley clone, no offence to anyone who has one.. They are nice bikes, using quite possibly better parts than the Harley, but they will never compare in resale.. Indian motor company tried and failed to come back a few years ago, honestly, I didnt think you could still get one...



> HD riders looked down on us because their bikes (more like cars on 2 wheels) were what ours was not: big, heavy, expensive, and made from a company that would not exist unless the U.S. govt bailed them out from going bankrupt.



The riders I have the most problem with are the ones who think they are better than anyone else(no matter what they ride, Jap bike riders do it too)... If Harley riders are treating you like this, they are probably RUBs(Rich Urban Bikers) with more money than sense... I refuse to ride with these weekend warriors and I'm a Harley rider.. They are dangerous as well as ignorant..

As fot the bailout, I may be mistaken, but to my understanding it was not a government buy out.. However, the Harley and Davidson families who bought them out and saved the company from bankrupsy at the hands of AMF(a bowling ball/tennis racket company )..

My opinion on the bikes.... I love the Harley, I dont care to have anything else.. Is it better, maybe maybe not.. They cant run 13,000rpm, they typicaly cant do a 1/4mi in 8sec or run 180mph... But they are comfortable, reliable and they feeling you get from the vibration(non sexual, though some women may disagree) and the sound is unmistakable and irreplaceable(?).. Bob mentioned the tractor comparrison and I couldnt think of a better one.. JD is living off its herritage more than anything else.. The brand has only changed when it had to, they really dont need to advertise and people who have never seen a real tractor own their shirts and hats... Marketing, mistique and heritage...


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## OhioTC18 RIP

Direct from H-D's website...........

1981
On February 26, thirteen Harley-Davidson senior executives sign a letter of intent to purchase Harley-Davidson Motor Company from AMF. By mid-June, the buyback is official, and the phrase "The Eagle Soars Alone" becomes a rallying cry.

1983
Harley-Davidson successfully petitions the International Trade Commission (ITC) for tariff relief, which is granted April 1, 1983. The tariff, scheduled to end five years later, is placed on all imported Japanese motorcycles 700cc or larger as a response to Japanese motorcycle manufacturers stockpiling inventories of unsold motorcycles in the United States.


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## dzalphakilo

HD's are great bikes no doubt.  My only road bike was a Kawasaki KZ1100, great bike in it's own, but too many idiot drivers, and if I was going to get killed, I wanted it done by my own stupidity, not someone elses.

That said, a question for you HD drivers.  Why so fuc*ing loud?!!!!

Love those guys that come up behind you driving HD's and they have to rev their engine that seems like they are sreaming "look at me, I'm on a bad ass Harley".  Just don't get it.  Have a guy in town that usually drives by the house on weekend nights.  I swear, you can hear him 100 yards away.  Great bike, just too many people that drive them that think the louder they are the more "bad ass" they are.


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## MadReferee

Cityboy said:
			
		

> Harley-Davidson is a family owned company that has been around a long, long time and has had its ups and downs, figured out its problems and is sky rocketing so far past the competetion that its competetors can't even see their dust right now.


Harley-Davidson is a publically traded company (NYSE:HOG). They have not been "family" owned for decades. They were previously owned by AMF from 1969 until 1981 when the current management team bought controlling interest from AMF.


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## Big Dog

HGM said:
			
		

> The latest version of Indians run S&S engines, back to point one....


The Indian Motorcycle Corporation reintroduced in 1999 had relied on S&S engines (clones of the Harley Evolution engine) for its first three model years but all along had been working on a new engine, the Powerplus™ 100, specifically made for the new Indian. That engine was introduced in their 2002 Chief models while the other Indian models continue to use the S&S engine.

BTW................Indian discontinued manufacturing in 2003 due to investor backout and just reformed again on 6/20/06 hoping to restart production in 2007!

Now why did they use S&S? Becuase the evolutuon engine is superior. Ohio got it right on the buy out and I bought 100 shares of stock when they went public for $11 a piece. Harley is a quality motorcycle and has choosen to stay with the V-twin for ease of styling other then there venture into the V-4 in the V-Rod to compete with the rice rockets. Sitting on a 6-cylinder feels like riding a bull. My exhaust is stock and will stay that way because it was designed as such. Now if I still had my AMF Lowrider it would have drag pipes because nothing sounds like a shovelhead with drag pipes................


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## Cityboy

MadReferee said:
			
		

> Harley-Davidson is a publically traded company (NYSE:HOG). They have not been "family" owned for decades. They were previously owned by AMF from 1969 until 1981 when the current management team bought controlling interest from AMF.


 
I stand corrected; they went public in 1987. I thought I had read somewhere that HD was still controlled by relations of Bill Harley and Arthur Davidson.  Should have double-checked. 

According to what I read, Harley merged with AMF in 1969 and was bought back by senior Harley people in 1981 and became a private company again. Here is a timeline:

http://www.harley.munising.com/

At any rate, like them or not, you cannot argue with HD's success. I've never even owned a motorcycle and probably never will; but if I ever do, it will be a Harley. 

Here's a Harley history web page:

http://www.powerpassion.nl/harley/story-engels.html


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## HGM

OhioTC18 said:
			
		

> Direct from H-D's website...........
> 1983
> Harley-Davidson successfully petitions the International Trade Commission (ITC) for tariff relief, which is granted April 1, 1983. The tariff, scheduled to end five years later, is placed on all imported Japanese motorcycles 700cc or larger as a response to Japanese motorcycle manufacturers stockpiling inventories of unsold motorcycles in the United States.



I wasnt aware of that, sort of to even the playing feild I guess..



> That said, a question for you HD drivers. Why so fuc*ing loud?!!!!
> 
> Love those guys that come up behind you driving HD's and they have to rev their engine that seems like they are sreaming "look at me, I'm on a bad ass Harley". Just don't get it. Have a guy in town that usually drives by the house on weekend nights. I swear, you can hear him 100 yards away. Great bike, just too many people that drive them that think the louder they are the more "bad ass" they are.



I've asked the same thing... I like a promenant rumble, like only a Harley can produce..  But, the drag pipes and the unrelenting over reving bugs me too.. The issue is more that it makes the whole motorcycling comunity look bad.. I do agree that some sound pretty good, but there is such a thing as too loud and obnoxious.. The idea that most go with is "loud pipes save lives".. I do agree with that to a degree as well and have experienced it myself while riding.


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## Cityboy

HGM said:
			
		

> I've asked the same thing... I like a promenant rumble, like only a Harley can produce.. But, the drag pipes and the unrelenting over reving bugs me too.. The issue is more that it makes the whole motorcycling comunity look bad.. I do agree that some sound pretty good, but there is such a thing as too loud and obnoxious.. The idea that most go with is "loud pipes save lives".. I do agree with that to a degree as well and have experienced it myself while riding.


 
Kind of like those Dodge Cummins pick-up owners that idle constantly while fueling up, or going into Walmart. Yup, actually seen it happen more than once. "Hey look at me! I got a Cummins!" Maybe they wanna be a trucker when they grow up? Always makes me chuckle.


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## HGM

Cityboy said:
			
		

> Kind of like those Dodge Cummins pick-up owners that idle constantly while fueling up, or going into Walmart. Yup, actually seen it happen more than once. "Hey look at me! I got a Cummins!" Maybe they wanna be a trucker when they grow up? Always makes me chuckle.


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## REDDOGTWO

B_Skurka said:
			
		

> My exec V.P. wants to buy a motorcycle. Not just any motorcycle, he has a specific H.D. picked out, I honestly cannot remember what model it is, maybe a fatboy? He is adamant about buying an American made cycle.
> 
> I suggested he might want to look at Victory or Indian. He ruled them out without consideration. He just wants a H.D.
> 
> So beyond scooters, I know nothing
> 
> So what is so good about H.D., is it just the name, or the look, or the quality or the brotherhood, or what?
> 
> Here are a couple differnet Indian photos (Chief & Spirit) and a Victory (Kingpin). They all look good to me too. Is there something wrong with these brands?


 
If I have to explain it, you would not understand.


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## REDDOGTWO

OhioTC18 said:
			
		

> Direct from H-D's website...........
> 
> 1981
> On February 26, thirteen Harley-Davidson senior executives sign a letter of intent to purchase Harley-Davidson Motor Company from AMF. By mid-June, the buyback is official, and the phrase "The Eagle Soars Alone" becomes a rallying cry.
> 
> 1983
> Harley-Davidson successfully petitions the International Trade Commission (ITC) for tariff relief, which is granted April 1, 1983. The tariff, scheduled to end five years later, is placed on all imported Japanese motorcycles 700cc or larger as a response to Japanese motorcycle manufacturers stockpiling inventories of unsold motorcycles in the United States.


 
Harley-Davidson also petitioned the International Trade Commission to have the tariff lifted a year earlier than the time period for which it was orgianlly granted.


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## REDDOGTWO

BoneheadNW said:
			
		

> Before getting married, I owned a couple of Suzukis (known as "rice burners" to the HD riders). One of these bikes was basically a stock 750, but was extrememly light and powerful, which made it very fast and great handling, although it was not the most comfortable thing to ride for more than a couple of hours at a time. HD riders looked down on us because their bikes (more like cars on 2 wheels) were what ours was not: big, heavy, expensive, and made from a company that would not exist unless the U.S. govt bailed them out from going bankrupt.
> 
> Can you tell how I feel about HDs? No offense BD.
> Bonehead


 
To the best of my knowledge, the U.S. government did not bail out the Harley-Davidson company. Harley-Davidson requested relief from the dumping of Jap motorcycles on the domestic market from the ITC, a surcharge was put on the imported motorcylces of app 700CC and up, the surcharge was to last five years, HD petitioned to have the surcharge lifted a year earlier than when it was supposed to end. In response to the surcharge, a lot of models that were 750CC came out with an engine that was 697cc's.

An example of this dumping of motorcycles on the US market is the Yamaha 550 Maxim. In 1983 this model retailed for about $2999, but there was an extreme number of non current models in the US pipline from Yamaha's attempt to gain the number one spot from Honda. Thousands of 1982 550 Maxims were sold in the $1500 price range.


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## daedong

HD wheels are made here in my state, that is why they are good *http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/business/items/200608/s1727582.htm*


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## BoneheadNW

Oh My God!  Part of an HD made in Australia!  The icon of U.S. motorcycles has wheels made by Aussies.  What is this world coming to?  The next thing you know, we will find out that some parts come from China.  Now THAT would really be funny. 
Bonehead


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## Big Dog

BoneheadNW said:
			
		

> Oh My God!  Part of an HD made in Australia!  The icon of U.S. motorcycles has wheels made by Aussies.  What is this world coming to?  The next thing you know, we will find out that some parts come from China.  Now THAT would really be funny.
> Bonehead



Their frontends are made in Japan BH...............


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## REDDOGTWO

About ten years ago, seven percent of the motorcycle was imported from other countries.  I do not know if that was number of componets or dollar wise.


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## RoadKing

I bought my first bike in 1969, a brand spankin new HD Electraglide for $2,400.00 Learned to ride on it, always loved that  
bike. Since then I've owned Suzuki, Yamaha, 2 Gold Wings and now back to HD 2002 Road King. All were great machines. The suziki GT 550 a 2 cycle 3 cylinder that didn't sell because nobody wanted a 2cycle road bike best handler I ever owned. The Yamaha just a good allaround bike. For over the road touring nothing beats the Gold Wing, comfort, handling and performance. My current ride I can best explain it this way, as far as looks and style it's almost an identical match to my '69 Electraglide ( brings me back) I don't see me ever doing 600 to 800 mile days anymore, don't need the Gold Wing. For the riding I do now plus just the plain fun I like my Road King. I explained it this way to a local Honda dealer last summer " the harley is just more fun, ten Gold Wings drive by, nobody cares. Ten Harleys go by everybody looks." I don't have that many riding years left so I'm just going to enjoy.

Next year I'm planning my last big trip ( my memory trip )
I want to trailer my bike ( I don't enjoy Massachusetts, Connecticut & New York highways ) to Joliet Illinois and ride what's left of Rte 66 to California. Any suggestions for places to see are welcomed.


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## Big Dog

I wore a tire out in 2 1/2 weeks 3 years ago on my Harley with 94,000 miles on it. Three of us did 7000 miles, 18 states...........PA to the west coast, highway 1, Seattle, Rockies, Sturgis then home. We were in Steamboat Springs Colorado in 2 days........Did Des Moines to PA on the last day...........889miles. Just bragging..............


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## RoadKing

Big Dog said:
			
		

> Just bragging..............



My turn

1. Boy's trip to Gettysburg July '06 This is my friend tom, I'm behind the lens, It's where I've been told I belong.

I took this trip to see if I could still ride a decent distance in a day.
I hadn't ridden in about ten years ( no money=no bike) so when I mounted up again in '02 I was curious to see if I could still do it.
We did 500 miles on a 95 degree day thru Mass. & Conn. wasn't really an enjoyable day but now I know I still have enough to do the Rte 66 trip.


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## RoadKing

2. Sturgis with the wife Sept. '06


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## Melensdad

OK guys, I'm just curious here.

I do understand that Indian and Victory are NOT up to par with H.D., but then where to do the custom cycles fall in the pecking order of motorcycles?  If H.D. in the top production bike, is it still held in higher esteem than the bikes made by Jesse James at West Coast Choppers, Iron Horse or the Orange County Chopper guys or any of the dozen of other premier custom & Semi Customer bike makers?

Or are the custom/semi-custom bikes set aside in a different category, sort of like the custom hot rods are treated as special vehicles but not really taken seriously because they are a small % of the total vehicle world?


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## RoadKing

B_Skurka said:
			
		

> OK guys, I'm just curious here.
> 
> I do understand that Indian and Victory are NOT up to par with H.D., but then where to do the custom cycles fall in the pecking order of motorcycles?  If H.D. in the top production bike, is it still held in higher esteem than the bikes made by Jesse James at West Coast Choppers, Iron Horse or the Orange County Chopper guys or any of the dozen of other premier custom & Semi Customer bike makers?
> 
> Or are the custom/semi-custom bikes set aside in a different category, sort of like the custom hot rods are treated as special vehicles but not really taken seriously because they are a small % of the total vehicle world?




 

I don't necessarily agree that HD is better than Victory and Indian. I would put HD here, A high quality bike with a price range of $7000 - $25000 this allows for a lot of buyers add to this the PR, the "Harley Mystique", the name recognition, a worldwide dealer network and a pretty damn good bike. Victory is made by polaris, good company but just breaking into the MC market. Indian is a very unique look which cuts way down on mass appeal. HD offers many models for many tastes.
As far as the custom builders there are many but they are very expensive and offer few ammenities other than cosmetics also very little service, not a good thing if you want to put some serious miles down. The pic you put up from OCC for example is a hardtail ( no rear suspension ) I wouldn't own one unless it was a second bike for showing off on Sunday drives. I've been riding since 1969. I rode with guys in the 70s who rode hardtail choppers, a few that I still see, can't ride any bike at all because their spine is shot. I've ridden choppers on occasion a lot of fun but a fair sized pothole can drop you or at the least rattle you from your butt to the back of your head. The foreign machines are very good, if you read my previous post I stated that the Honda Gold Wing is probably the best engineered, smoothest riding and best handling motorcycle built today. A 50 year old would love it a twenty year old probably not (generally speaking).

To best answer your specific question is if you get one each of the folowing, Ferrari, Blackwood PU, top line Mercedez sedan & sport model, Hummer 1, Caddilac, Corvette, these are all autos but you could find someone to pick one over the other and think theirs is the best. To each his own, I'm a Chevy man myself.

This is about the best I can do to answer your question. I'll only add one thing, why I ride, when I'm on my bike I have to pay full attention to what I'm doing. I have to drive my MC with my whole body two hands, two feet and full attention. I can only do this by putting everything else out of my mind work, family, things to do, tomorrow, yesterday, etc. By doing this I can truly relax, clear my brain and I guess 'reset the breakers'. The plus is on a bike the scenery changes it's like instead of looking at and enjoying beautiful painting, the artist painted you in it.

There's my 2 cents maybe 3. Also there is something to be said for marketing.


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## HGM

Good answer RK.. I agree.. 

As far as craftsmanship I, personally, dont think it gets any better than Jesse James(West Coast Choppers)... I've been to rallies and seen allot of their bikes up close, OCC(for example) isnt even marginal in my opinion.. They are very crude and, well, I dont think they would be in bussiness if their disfunctional reality show didnt exist.. While WCC also got their brake from Jesse James Discovery specials, which gave them world wide recognition, the shows are about the art.. No drama, no BS, just pure workmanship.. There are others, Indian Larry was very talented, Eddie Tratta another, Arlen Ness, the list could surely go on, but its a niche.. They are works of art and some more ridable than others, but in a nutshell, they could never compete with a Harley Davidson, Honda, Yamaha, etc. because its just a "niche" like the Ford GT or any other exotic $150-600,000 car..


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## Kubota King

Nice pics to all of you


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## BoneheadNW

Great post RoadKing!  I have one question for you:  What is with the tassle-type thingies I see coming off the end of the handlebars on some HD motorcycles?  Don't those things whip around and whack you in the arms?  Do people have them for the looks? 
Bonehead


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## Dargo

RoadKing said:
			
		

> I would put HD here, A high quality bike with a price range of $7000 - $25000 this allows for a lot of buyers add to this the PR, the "Harley Mystique", the name recognition, a worldwide dealer network and a pretty damn good bike....Also there is something to be said for marketing.



I've had several in the past and now have a Super Glide.  Having said that, I'll buck the trend and have to rather strongly disagree with saying that they are a "quality" bike or even a "damn good bike".  I've probably had 8 or 10 of them and I'd say that the newer bikes are far better than the earlier generations.  However, under no circumstances would I ever consider putting "Harley" and "quality" in the same sentence.  From the bikes I've owned and those owned by personal friends, the above comments are based on personal knowledge of a couple hundred bikes.  When I take into consideration the actuarial statistics on their repairs it looks far worse.

So, with over 30 years experience and professional actuarial statistics, I'd have to say it's completely the "cool" factor and chalk it up to a fantastic marketing job by Harley.  Quality build wise, technology wise, and reliability wise, there are not many worse.  However, as long as the "cool" factor is still there, they seem to hold a better resale value than most any other brand.  You can go to far though.  One guy who was at the meeting with me on Grand Cayman has almost $50k in his Harley after all his chrome and other "stuff".  I'd assume that he will take a huge hit when he sells it, but he can afford it.  Heck, he has his Harley for when he rides around with his friends locally, but when he takes his wife out on longer rides he takes one of those Japanese made bikes that just look like a Harley. 

Oh yeah, I've never seen such a good marketing job on the accessories as well.  It seems mandatory that every Harley owner needs to spend a few thousand bucks at their local Harley shop on not only Harley chrome, but on Harley clothing as well.  I'm dead serious when I say that the guy who has the bike with all the chrome also gets several temporary tattoos and even wears a long hair wig when he goes to Sturgis.  Even though I own one, I just can't get into spending thousands on their clothing nor feel the need to get covered with tattoos, grow long hair and stop shaving.  But, to their credit, the hard core Harley riders don't seem to discriminate against those who ride a Harley but don't go for the complete look.


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## Melensdad

Dargo said:
			
		

> One guy who was at the meeting with me on Grand Cayman has almost $50k in his Harley after all his chrome and other "stuff".


My VP is looking at a used fatboy right now, it is listed at $43,000.  He's also considering a new HD fatboy Police unit _(they sell a special edition only to police officers or retired officers and my sales manger is a police officer so my VP can get the bike via a purchase facilitated by my sales manager).  _


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## Dargo

B_Skurka said:
			
		

> My VP is looking at a used fatboy right now, it is listed at $43,000.  He's also considering a new HD fatboy Police unit _(they sell a special edition only to police officers or retired officers and my sales manger is a police officer so my VP can get the bike via a purchase facilitated by my sales manager).  _



Imagine that...it's a Fat Boy that the guy I was talking about has.  You probably figured that.  I could very well be mistaken, but I think a "bling-bling" Fat Boy is about the most expensive.

Dozens and dozens of the dealers I work with used to always order a new Harley every year and would either make money on, or lose very little on, their year old units.  That no longer is the case.  Go figure; the bikes begin to increase a bit in reliability and their value doesn't hold up as well.  WTF?!


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## Big Dog

Dargo said:
			
		

> I've had several in the past and now have a Super Glide. Having said that, I'll buck the trend and have to rather strongly disagree with saying that they are a "quality" bike or even a "damn good bike". I've probably had 8 or 10 of them and I'd say that the newer bikes are far better than the earlier generations. However, under no circumstances would I ever consider putting "Harley" and "quality" in the same sentence. From the bikes I've owned and those owned by personal friends, the above comments are based on personal knowledge of a couple hundred bikes. When I take into consideration the actuarial statistics on their repairs it looks far worse.
> 
> So, with over 30 years experience and professional actuarial statistics, I'd have to say it's completely the "cool" factor and chalk it up to a fantastic marketing job by Harley. Quality build wise, technology wise, and reliability wise, there are not many worse. However, as long as the "cool" factor is still there, they seem to hold a better resale value than most any other brand. You can go to far though. One guy who was at the meeting with me on Grand Cayman has almost $50k in his Harley after all his chrome and other "stuff". I'd assume that he will take a huge hit when he sells it, but he can afford it. Heck, he has his Harley for when he rides around with his friends locally, but when he takes his wife out on longer rides he takes one of those Japanese made bikes that just look like a Harley.
> 
> Oh yeah, I've never seen such a good marketing job on the accessories as well. It seems mandatory that every Harley owner needs to spend a few thousand bucks at their local Harley shop on not only Harley chrome, but on Harley clothing as well. I'm dead serious when I say that the guy who has the bike with all the chrome also gets several temporary tattoos and even wears a long hair wig when he goes to Sturgis. Even though I own one, I just can't get into spending thousands on their clothing nor feel the need to get covered with tattoos, grow long hair and stop shaving. But, to their credit, the hard core Harley riders don't seem to discriminate against those who ride a Harley but don't go for the complete look.


 
I have to disagree with you Brent. What year is your Superglide? I bought my first Harley in 1977, an AMF Lowrider (fancy Superglide) and I will agree it was not a quality product. I had an 84 FLH shovel a little better but not by much. As soon as the management team bought the company they designed the evo engine.....Harley's savior. 

We obviously have different views on a quality product........I've owned Harley's for 30 years also and I don't come to the same conclusion! Doesn't mean I approve of the prices though, it would be hard for me to buy a new Harley for the price of a nice pickup or tractor! I will not pay $15,000 for ANYTHING with just two-wheels.............


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## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

My outsider observation is that HD is peaking from a market perception.  I'm not sure if they will tank but they really aren't as "cool" as they once were.  

Although since the largest consumer demographic in the US is aging fast they may not be turned off by the perception of HD riders being old, wrinkly, leather clad "odd" people.  (I'll reserve my other comments about how I perceive them).

I'll put it this way, when I see a Harley Rider these days, I rarely see a "rebel".  I am much more likely to see an overweight middle age person who appears to be going through some mid-life crisis (i.e. a VP for a Food Distributor).  Not exactly something that attracts new customers to a brand built on a "rebellious" and "cool" mystique.

Sorry if my analysis offends anyone.  Like I said, I'm on the outside looking in.


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## HGM

Big Dog said:
			
		

> Doesn't mean I approve of the prices though, it would be hard for me to buy a new Harley for the price of a nice pickup or tractor! I will not pay $15,000 for ANYTHING with just two-wheels.............




Good point, have you seen now that the offer 84mo financing for these fools.... I've walked out of dealers and swore against ever giving them any bussiness because of their tendancies to screw the public.. Harley stuff is expensive, but some dealers make it worse..


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## Dargo

I'm obviously in an odd position since I own one, (hmm, would that make me stupid?  ) but from my experience and having my company handle 4 warranty companies that cover motorcycles and seeing what they report and what they won't cover, I have "in my face" facts that hurt.

There is a huge surcharge for any contract to cover a Harley and 3 of the 4 will not cover leaks on a Harley for any amount of a surcharge.  Many other companies will simply not cover a Harley at all regardless of the price.  I guess I'm in an odd situation since I like them but also have 30 years experience and reams of data proving that they are not exactly well made or reliable pieces of machinery.  Even our local Harley dealership rather bluntly explains that you are not buying a precision built Swiss watch with one of their products.

I guess it's going along with the "in" thing.  Harley has been very successful in promoting their products as "cool" thing even when they were without any doubt the worst quality machine on 2 wheels.  Yeah, I had a '79 Sportster that never once ran right and Harley never could/would do squat about it.  My '99 Super Glide is much improved from that old piece of shit Sportster, but it is not on par with the quality of other machines on the market.  I recently rode a new '06 BMW bike that a friend owns and it's finish, fit, quality, feel, and overall ride was just incredible.  Even though I raced Honda and Yamaha (was sponsored by Yamaha for a short while), that BMW sure impressed me.

Does that make me a hypocrite to have a Harley when I have so much data and experience telling me that they really are not a very good bike?   I do think they look great, have a distinctive ride and, at times, can sound good.  With decent pipes on them they sound good.  With a cheap set of open pipes with no muffler of any type they burble, spit, fart, burp and sound like a cheap twin cylinder Briggs powered lawn mower that is on it's last leg and needs a muffler and a rebuild.


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## Melensdad

I'm not a rider (other than scooters) and admitedly know little about this topic, but what about some of the other classic bikes from around the world?

Dargo mentioned* BMW* already.  What about *Triumph*?  Or one of my favorites,* Moto Guzzi*?

Where do these three classic brands fall into the spectrum?  Granted none carry the prestige of a HD, but each has their own loyal fan base.  The BMW for the technical/precision crowd.  Triumph is certainly a very classic name and they still make some models that are virutal clones of their bikes from the 1960s as well as new modern and modern cruisers.  Moto Guzzi, with its V Twin mounted sideways always appealed to me because it is so different, but it is a classic machine that has been around for decades with a loyal following too.

So did you hear the joke about the 3 guys who walk into a Harley bar, and one owns a BMW, the other a Triumph, and the 3rd a Moto Guzzi . . .


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## California

Bob, they're just like Apple computers.


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## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

California said:
			
		

> Bob, they're just like Apple computers.


 
YES!  That's the perfect explanation for Bob!


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## RoadKing

Dargo said:
			
		

> I've had several in the past and now have a Super Glide.  Having said that, I'll buck the trend and have to rather strongly disagree with saying that they are a "quality" bike or even a "damn good bike".   However, under no circumstances would I ever consider putting "Harley" and "quality" in the same sentence.  From the bikes I've owned and those owned by personal friends, the above comments are based on personal knowledge of a couple hundred bikes.  When I take into consideration the actuarial statistics on their repairs it looks far worse.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh yeah, I've never seen such a good marketing job on the accessories as well.  It seems mandatory that every Harley owner needs to spend a few thousand bucks at their local Harley shop on not only Harley chrome, but on Harley clothing as well.  I'm dead serious when I say that the guy who has the bike with all the chrome also gets several temporary tattoos and even wears a long hair wig when he goes to Sturgis.  Even though I own one, I just can't get into spending thousands on their clothing nor feel the need to get covered with tattoos, grow long hair and stop shaving.



Dargo, It's too bad you've such bad luck with HD, I haven't. My current ride is a used police Road King I bought in '02, as you can see by my pics I've put some serious miles on it and have not needed any 
repairs. One set of tires and oil changes is about it and I'll probably change the drive belt before my Rte 66 trip this summer. As far as accessories again look at my pics, I did add a backrest for my wife's comfort, different handgrips (not Harley) for my comfort and I did have it pinstriped to match my truck. That's not really a Harley thing I've pinstriped every truck I've ever owned. I do have a leather,  but I got it from the Sears fatman catalog. Does that count? I will confess I buy T-Shirts when I travel and they are too expensive most of the time. But I ask you, honestly
I ride a Harley and own an L series Kubota would you have passed on this shirt?


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## elsmitro

*Marketing*

If I ever spend this kind of $ on a bike I would like to get a Bourget.  I have liked those ever since I saw the build off on the discovery channel.  I will probably stick with ridding in the dirt though.  I have tried the streets and there are just to many people that don’t look out for bike riders.  Maybe thats why the HD riders are so loud; they want you to know they are there so you don't run into them.  I too think the HD riders are all about the camaraderie and style points.

http://www.bourgetmotorcycles.com/pages/bike-image-pages/usedbikes-pages/2001lowblow.htm


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## Dargo

RoadKing said:
			
		

> ...I did add a backrest for my wife's comfort, different _handgrips_ (not Harley) for my comfort...



Holy cow man, I'm not wearing my glasses and you got me on that one!!   I thought for sure you'd said that you'd gotten your wife a backrest for her comfort and then *handcuffs* for your comfort.    I had this really wild mental picture going on until I re-read what you'd posted.


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## RoadKing

Dargo said:
			
		

> Holy cow man, I'm not wearing my glasses and you got me on that one!!   I thought for sure you'd said that you'd gotten your wife a backrest for her comfort and then *handcuffs* for your comfort.    I had this really wild mental picture going on until I re-read what you'd posted.



The Handcuffs are OK but I can't use them on the bike.


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## HGM

Dargo said:
			
		

> I'm obviously in an odd position since I own one, (*hmm, would that make me stupid?  *) but from my experience and having my company handle 4 warranty companies that cover motorcycles and seeing what they report and what they won't cover, I have "in my face" facts that hurt..




Hope that wasnt directed at my 84mo financing comment , its the financing thats stupid in my opinion, not the bike.... I've owned a couple and will certainly buy another, I feel Harley is a great bike.. Sounds like you've had bad luck with the '99 though... I'd be interested to see/or hear of some of the failures on the Evo and 88" bikes.. They have been virtually trouble free from what I have seen and heard, obviously anything can and will break at some point.. I just dont see the poor quality you claim.... I will agree that they may not be as technologicaly advanced as some other brands, but simple can be good too... Hell, thats the way I like my women too ..


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## Dargo

HGM said:
			
		

> Hope that wasnt directed at my 84mo financing comment



Don't take it wrong, but I don't do financing on anything.  If I don't have the cash, I don't buy it.  I know, a bit old fashioned, and it sometimes takes longer to get what I want, but that's just me.


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## RoadKing

Here are a couple of interesting things I found.


1.Product Description - The Retriever
Why should a towing company's most valuable asset, the tow truck, be stuck in traffic?

The superior manoeuvrability of the Retriever is due to a towing device folded on to the back of the motorcycle - making the vehicle only 95 cm wide.


The towing device is not unfolded until you reach the disabled vehicle. This innovative design allows the Retriever to reach cars swiftly and tow them safely.

The Retriever gets your towing company on the road and allows it to grow your business - because you will be faster than your competitors at reaching customers.



2.JRL Cycles is currently building what is probably the first radial motor chopper. One of the largest air-cooled motors ever to power a motorcycle the 7-cylinder radial is the same type used to power aircraft during World War II and is believed to be the basis for the V-twin motorcycle motor. This motorcycle is all new and is available in a chopper exclusively through JRL CYCLES LLC.


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## HGM

Dargo said:
			
		

> Don't take it wrong, but I don't do financing on anything.  If I don't have the cash, I don't buy it.  I know, a bit old fashioned, and it sometimes takes longer to get what I want, but that's just me.




That was my point, I'm finally getting there myself... I may do a short term finance, but it will be payed off much sooner than the term... 

BTW, guys, is it just me, or are all of Road Kings posts "super sized"?


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## Doc

HGM said:
			
		

> BTW, guys, is it just me, or are all of Road Kings posts "super sized"?



Nope, not at all.
His sig is BIGGER font but everything else is the same small font as yours & other posters.  

(I'm using Firefox in case that makes a difference)


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## HGM

hmmm, well I'm on my laptop now and its good.... I was on the desktop earlier and I had to scroll over on each of his posts, maybe a setting on that PC?? .. I'm using Explorer on everything and never noticed it before... Thanks anyhow..


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## RoadKing

HGM said:
			
		

> BTW, guys, is it just me, or are all of Road Kings posts "super sized"?



Sorry if my pics aren't ok. I'm a mac guy but I do my internet roaming with a sony laptop and don't know the machine well.
I couldn't post a pic at all for a long time then I found a freeware program called resize that is simple enough for my PC/peabrain to grasp let me try my last photo on medium & small and tell me what is best for those viewing


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## Melensdad

Well I got a call from my VP this afternoon.  He was on his way to the airport to go on MY trip to Washington (yes, I still have that damn kidney stone and today I am miserable).  He stopped off at the H.D. dealer and bought a 2006 Fatboy, all black.  He picks it up Saturday.  Not sure when he is telling his wife.  I'm thinking he may not want to tell her tonight, it is supposed to rain/snow here before he gets back into town and he may find a wet/frozen pile of his clothes in the yard.


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## Kubota King

Dargo - 

You made valid pionts in my opinion.


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## HGM

RoadKing said:
			
		

> Sorry if my pics aren't ok. I'm a mac guy but I do my internet roaming with a sony laptop and don't know the machine well.
> I couldn't post a pic at all for a long time then I found a freeware program called resize that is simple enough for my PC/peabrain to grasp let me try my last photo on medium & small and tell me what is best for those viewing



No problem at all... I was just curious if it was my computer or not.. For whatever reason my home PC showed larger than my laptop. Either of the latest fit better, but of course, the bigger pictures have more detail..  Again, not a problem, I was just trying to figure out why it changed all of the sudden.. Thanks.


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## Doc

Road King, cool pics.  What kind of motor is that??????


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## Doc

*Re: Marketing*



			
				elsmitro said:
			
		

> If I ever spend this kind of $ on a bike I would like to get a Bourget.  I have liked those ever since I saw the build off on the discovery channel.  I will probably stick with ridding in the dirt though.  I have tried the streets and there are just to many people that don’t look out for bike riders.  Maybe thats why the HD riders are so loud; they want you to know they are there so you don't run into them.  I too think the HD riders are all about the camaraderie and style points.
> 
> http://www.bourgetmotorcycles.com/pages/bike-image-pages/usedbikes-pages/2001lowblow.htm




Wow!!!!   Very nice!  I bet those cost a fortune!


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## RoadKing

Doc said:
			
		

> Road King, cool pics.  What kind of motor is that??????




JRL Cycles is currently building what is probably the first radial motor chopper. One of the largest air-cooled motors ever to power a motorcycle the 7-cylinder radial is the same type used to power aircraft during World War II and is believed to be the basis for the V-twin motorcycle motor. This motorcycle is all new and is available in a chopper exclusively through JRL CYCLES LLC

I don't know what it costs, all I know is that I can't afford it.


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## Av8r3400

Big Dog said:
			
		

> As soon as the management team bought the company they designed the evo engine.....Harley's savior.


 

Sorry 'Dog.  The Evo was on the design table as one of the last AMF projects.  It didn't go into production untill after the ownership change.

You are correct that is was H-D's savior, though.


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## russellmn

that radial engine would be a pita.  It looks cool, but you have to run them through a full revolution before you start them because oil and fuel puddle in the lower cylinders.  
Stupid power though, that thing would be rediculously fast/quick.


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## Wannafish

RoadKing said:
			
		

> The suziki GT 550 a 2 cycle 3 cylinder that didn't sell because nobody wanted a 2cycle road bike best handler I ever owned.
> ...Any suggestions for places to see are welcomed.


 
Stop by central Michigan and I'll give you a great deal on my '71 GT550.


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## chopperguy

The only solution is a Harley Custom Evolution w/a suicide clutch and jocky shift,3" open belt,kick start only 4 spd. Cow Pie tranny and a Cat Squasher front end with mini apes.Now with newly fresh hand painted lettering.


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## Melensdad

*A Horse, A Chicken & A Harley ​*
On the farm lived a chicken and a horse, both of whom loved to play together. 

One day the two were playing, when the horse fell into a bog and began to sink. 

Scared for his life, the horse whinnied for the chicken to go get the farmer for help! 

Off the chicken ran, back to the farm. Arriving at the farm, he searched and searched for the farmer, but to no avail, for he had gone to town with the only tractor. 

Running around, the chicken spied the farmer's new Harley. 

Finding the keys in the ignition, the chicken sped off with a length of rope hoping he still had time to save his friend's life. 

Back at the bog, the horse was surprised, but happy, to see the chicken arrive on the shiny Harley, and he managed to get a hold of the loop of rope the chicken tossed to him. 

After tying the other end to the rear bumper of the farmer's bike, the chicken then drove slowly forward and, with the aid of the powerful bike, rescued the horse! 

Happy and proud, the chicken rode the Harley back to the farmhouse, and the farmer was none the wiser when he returned. 

The friendship between the two animals was cemented: Best Buddies, Best Pals. 

A few weeks later, the chicken fell into a mud pit, and soon, he too, began to sink and cried out to the horse to save his life! 

The horse thought a moment, walked over, and straddled the large puddle. 

Looking underneath, he told the chicke n to grab his hangy-down thing and he would then lift him out of the pit 

The chicken got a good grip, and the horse pulled him up and out, saving his life. 

The moral of the story? (yep, you betcha, there IS a moral!) 

"When You're Hung Like A Horse, You Don't Need A Harley To Pick Up Chicks"​


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## TravisM.1

If you like nostalgia, Harleys are great. As far as performance, you'll put a pile of money into one before it starts to approach a modern Japanese motorcycle. 

A buddy of mine bought a brand-new '06 1200 Sportster last year. He's put the "Screaming Eagle" kit on it (carb re-jet, exhaust, air filter), and it doesn't hold a candle to my 750 Katana (equipped with nothing more than a jet kit). We've traded bikes for a ride a couple of times, and he says the same thing every time he gets off of my bike. He looks at his bike, looks at my bike, shakes his head and says, "Sonofabitch".


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## Big Dog

TravisM.1 said:


> If you like nostalgia, Harleys are great. As far as performance, you'll put a pile of money into one before it starts to approach a modern Japanese motorcycle.
> 
> A buddy of mine bought a brand-new '06 1200 Sportster last year. He's put the "Screaming Eagle" kit on it (carb re-jet, exhaust, air filter), and it doesn't hold a candle to my 750 Katana (equipped with nothing more than a jet kit). We've traded bikes for a ride a couple of times, and he says the same thing every time he gets off of my bike. He looks at his bike, looks at my bike, shakes his head and says, "Sonofabitch".



Your buddy didn't reference his purchase well enough. The sportster was never meant to compete with a bike like yours.


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## TravisM.1

I agree 100%, though I don't think a competition was what either of us has in mind. Just a comparison.


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## JimR

Someone mentioned that they saw a T-shirt that read riding a Jap bike was like F---in a Fag or something to that effect.  I would like to say that I know more non motorcycle people that hate Harleys over any other motorcycle on the road because of the loud exhaust and the stupid things the riders do with them.  I can and will explain those things I speak of if anyone would really like to know.  First off you can't compare a crotch rocket or everyday Jap bike to a Harley.  The Harley is twice the price.  Compare your Harley to a Goldwing or BMW and you have another thing coming.  I'll take a Goldwing over a Harley any day.  I have never seen a Goldwing sitting on the side of the road broken down.  I can't begin to remember how many Harleys I have seen sitting on the side of the road waiting for a flatbed to pick them up.  I've mentioned this once before on here about my brother's 2001 Road King.  He now claims that it finally runs the way it should.  It's only been six years and about three tear downs, piston/jug changes, cams, carbs you name it. The stock seat is a piece of crap that will kill you and the rider within a short period of time.  His words and his wife's words by the way.  A stock Harley can't get out of its own way.  You need to put loud or performance exhaust on them, jet the carbs, high performance camshafts, bigger pistons and jugs, gear drive cams and on and on.  By the time your done adding chrome and engine mods you will have spent another $10-15K on your $20K motorcycle.  A Goldwing will run you just under $20k and you will easily get 100K out of it without doing a thing other than general maintainance.  That is why I ride a Goldwing.  The best part is I bought my 1994 used this year with 30K on it for $4500.00.  Try to buy a nice looking used Harley for that kind of money.  You might be able to buy the frame, wheels and tires for that.  My brother just told me the other day that the market is flooded with used Harleys and the prices will have to come down to move them. I'd be happy to run the quarter mile against a fully loaded stock Harley.  I also need to add that a Harley IS a Macho thing as mentioned in an earlier post.  It is just like owning a Ford F350 Super Duty if you had no use for it other than to drive back and forth to work with it.  It is a very expensive status symbol.


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## Ross 650

Howdy,
I have ridden just about every brand of motorcycle available in the USA.  I got my first Harley in 1965.  It was a 1948 pan head.  I cant tell you what it is about riding a Harley that infects you with admiration for the old iron.  I am currently riding a 1982 FLH.  I dont want anything newer than the Shovel Head Harleys which were last made in 1984.  The new Harleys are too much like Japanese bikes with no soul in them.  They are faster and leak free but they do nothing for me.  I will keep my old hog forever.  As for being made in the USA, that is a fallacy.  For example the electronics, forks, shocks, and carbs are Japanese.  If I remember right the pistons used to come from Italy.  The Harley dealerships are nothing more than style shops. They sell all the latest Tshirts and jewelry.  The riders of the newer ones probably have no idea of how to keep them running.  They just throw money at them and make them shine. Have a goodun!!!!


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## JimR

Ross 650 said:


> Howdy,
> I have ridden just about every brand of motorcycle available in the USA.  I got my first Harley in 1965.  It was a 1948 pan head.  I cant tell you what it is about riding a Harley that infects you with admiration for the old iron.  I am currently riding a 1982 FLH.  I dont want anything newer than the Shovel Head Harleys which were last made in 1984.  The new Harleys are too much like Japanese bikes with no soul in them.  They are faster and leak free but they do nothing for me.  I will keep my old hog forever.  As for being made in the USA, that is a fallacy.  For example the electronics, forks, shocks, and carbs are Japanese.  If I remember right the pistons used to come from Italy.  The Harley dealerships are nothing more than style shops. They sell all the latest Tshirts and jewelry.  The riders of the newer ones probably have no idea of how to keep them running.  They just throw money at them and make them shine. Have a goodun!!!!



One of my cousins down in Florida feels the same way.  He rides an older 70's Superglide, has a restored 38 that has won many trophys and just bought a 45 to restore.


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## Ross 650

Howdy,
heck, everybody knows that real Harleys have Iron Cylinders.  The semi Harleys have aluminum, Hondaesq cylinders.  Have a goodun!!!


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## JimR

Ross 650 said:


> Howdy,
> heck, everybody knows that real Harleys have Iron Cylinders.  The semi Harleys have aluminum, Hondaesq cylinders.  Have a goodun!!!



I always thought it was that real Harleys always marked their spot before the left anywhere.

 A few years back I took a 13 week computer course.  Oe day I rode my  Goldwing to it.  It was a bit cool that day at about 50 degrees.  At lunchtime I went outside and there was a small puddle of rice under my Goldwing.  Back in class someone asked if my bike was having lunch.  I turned to the Harley owner and asked where his bike was.  His reply was "It's in the shop getting fixed"


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## Ross 650

Howdy,
well, real Harleys dont go to the shop.  They should be repaired in the home garage with a crescent wrench and a screw driver.  The Harley shops probably cant work on my old scooter.  They carry very few parts for them too. Just like the old Model A Fords, the old Harleys are owner friendly for maintaince and repair.  Have a goodun!!!!


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## Ross 650

Howdy,
the more that I think about it, I have a lot in common with my old Harley.  Specifically occasionally we both dribble a little on the floor.  Have a goodun!!!


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