# First Garden!



## squerly

This is my first year living full time on the mountain here in NC, and along with everything else I'm turning farmer!  Went to Tractor Supply yesterday and got seeds for my latest adventure.  We have:


Onions (Yellow)
Sweet Peppers
Tomato (Roma)
Pea's 
Radish's
Cucumber's
Hot Peppers
Sweet Corn
Carrot's
Strawberries (Everbearing)
Raspberries

I know nothing abut gardening so I hope these vegies will co-exist in the same area.  Any suggestions or advice will be appreciated!


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## tiredretired

Don't forget the water.


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## bczoom

A few thoughts.

First, watch the orientation of the garden as it relates to sunshine.  It's best to put the shortest things towards the south so they get sun.  E.g. don't put the corn or peas on the south side then put the carrots, radishes & onions just to the north of them.  The taller plants can block the sunshine.

Watch your viney plants (e.g. cucumbers or pumpkins).  They'll need space to spread out.  I put these on the perimeter of the garden and train them to grow outwards so they don't grow into the other plants.

I'd keep the perennials (strawberries, raspberries, asparagus and the winter crops like garlic) in a different location.  You won't want to be having to work or till around them when planting other things each spring.  I made a couple raised bed gardens that I keep these in.  The rototiller doesn't go into those areas.

Stake your peas.  Optionally, the tomatoes.

I have a hard time with corn coming out nice and it takes a lot of space.  If your garden isn't big enough for everything, I'd scrap the corn.

Plant things at the right time so they come into harvest when you want.  E.g. if you're making sauces, try to make it where the tomatoes, peppers, onions... all come into harvest at the same time.  It sucks when the tomatoes are ready for canning but the other things aren't ready for harvest.

Make sure you mark which are the sweet and hot peppers...


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## squerly

Thank BC, great input!


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## muleman RIP

Orientation! Plant your rows running north and south. This allows better sun unless you plant something that likes shade. Start your tomatoes inside now for your area. Your season is vastly different from mine. Are you going to fence it? Critters travel a long way for good eating. If you fence it go with 2X4 X4ft. tall fence. I plant my berries along the fence or you can string climbing wires for them. If you have not tilled it yet burn off any weeds etc. before you till. If the soil is heavy clay consider amending it with a truckload of sand. Your plants like it and weeds pull much easier.


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## squerly

Here is my garden site and here are my (non Monsanto) seeds.

So just to be clear on this, I dig a hole, toss the package in and cover it with dirt.  Right?  Do I have to wait for the snow to melt?

But seriously, this is my site.  It gets good sun all day long during the growing season, it's close to a creek and just around the corner is where I plan to put my bee's.  I'm told that the bees will like being close to a stream and I figure the morning sun will wake them up early and get them to work.  

I will fence it (hives and garden both) and put a solar powered electric wire around the fence.  I have lots of water as there is a spring just up from the garden area and I can channel the water down to where I need it.


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## BigAl RIP

bczoom said:


> A few thoughts.
> 
> First, watch the orientation of the garden as it relates to sunshine. It's best to put the shortest things towards the south so they get sun. E.g. don't put the corn or peas on the south side then put the carrots, radishes & onions just to the north of them. The taller plants can block the sunshine.
> 
> Watch your viney plants (e.g. cucumbers or pumpkins). They'll need space to spread out. I put these on the perimeter of the garden and train them to grow outwards so they don't grow into the other plants.
> 
> I'd keep the perennials (strawberries, raspberries, asparagus and the winter crops like garlic) in a different location. You won't want to be having to work or till around them when planting other things each spring. I made a couple raised bed gardens that I keep these in. The rototiller doesn't go into those areas.
> 
> Stake your peas. Optionally, the tomatoes.
> 
> I have a hard time with corn coming out nice and it takes a lot of space. If your garden isn't big enough for everything, I'd scrap the corn.
> 
> Plant things at the right time so they come into harvest when you want. E.g. if you're making sauces, try to make it where the tomatoes, peppers, onions... all come into harvest at the same time. It sucks when the tomatoes are ready for canning but the other things aren't ready for harvest.
> 
> Make sure you mark which are the sweet and hot peppers...


 
 Damn city slickers !!! You forgot the most important part !! 
 The first two rolls are for Gods critters to munch on .


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## bczoom

That will work.

Read the packages as some of those plants you're going to want to get started now (e.g. tomatoes, onions)

The peas can go in relatively soon as frost doesn't bother them.  They will be fully grown and harvested well before anything else so you can consider putting something else in that area for a 2nd harvest.  Personally, I do pumpkins and they're ready right around Halloween.

I'd consider putting the cucumbers on the western side of the right (higher) garden.  You can then train them to grow down that hill.

Unless you love just eating radishes by the bowlful, I wouldn't plant too many.  I'm the only one that eats them in our family and about a 6-10' row is more then enough.

Tomatoes and peppers will probably take up the entire lower garden.

Are the strawberries you got the kind that jump and re-root?  If so, save them a bit of extra space.


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## bczoom

BigAl said:


> Damn city slickers !!! You forgot the most important part !!
> The first two rolls are for Gods critters to munch on .


I don't put up any fencing so the critters can have whatever they want _so long as the dog doesn't see them since she thinks the critters are for her to munch on_.

I'll see if I can find a picture but I kid you not that the deer were bedding down in the garden last year.  They can eat as much as they want of anything.


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## FrancSevin

Squerly,

First the bad news. You garden will be a dissapointment this year. Ya needed to start it last fall.
Now the good news. You can rescue the project.

As soon as the soil is tillable, turn it over. Deep . Not with a rototiller but with a shovel. Dig as deep as you can ( at least 10 inches) and turn the soil.

Observe what you have. The soil should be full of organic mater. If not, you need to bring some in. Manure is best but rotted leaves will help. Forest soil is mostly rotted leaves so you will also need to add other nutrients. 

Test the PH. It should be slightly acidic. Simple kits are available at most garden shops, including the big box stores like Lowes. And organic sulphur to get the Ph below 6.5. Most seeds won't germinate above 7.0

Add bone meal especialy where you have root plants. Use a balanced fertilizer like 12-12-12. These stand for N,P,P or Nitrogen, Phosphorous, Potasium.

Do not use a fertilizer high in Nitrogen. That would be the first number. Good for lawns but it will cause less fruit growth.

Phosphoruous and potasium promote strong stems , flowering and fruit production. 

Now is the time to get these fertilizers in the ground.  You can spread it before the first dig or after. You are going to dig again in about three weeks to get a good mixing. The second dig can be with a tiller.

As others have said orient the crops to benefit of the sun. Since you have two sections you can consider them separately and make crop rotation easier.

Simple rules on rotation. Grow corn after beans, beans after tomatoes and never grow tomatoes in the same soil two years in a row. Always clear tomato vines completely from the garden, never compost them.


Never dig rows up and down the hill but always horizontal to the slope. That seems perfect for your garden orientations.

Your soil will lend itself to potatoes and yams. Plant them in soil that does not have much fresh manure. On the other hand, cucumbers and squash, any of the mallow fruits and veggies, plant in manure. I always put manure in piles or rows and plant my mallows there one year and follow with taters and maters the next year. 

Taters and maters are from the same family. You can grow them together. I mean literaly together. Frangible clay soils that contain a lot of sand, or even small gravels, is good for either. Both like a high mineral content.

If you plant corn, in your area you will have to protect it from racoons. Welded wire mesh fencing at 6 feet will restrain them but only with some success. Around here we actualy build an enclosure over the corn. As mentioned, sweet corn might not be a good plan.

Straw berries from seed will dissapoint you. I do hope you bought plants. Those you can plant anytime in permanent rows. Raspberries will also do well in you soils. You will get crops this year if you plant nursery stock.

Frankly, I would plant them in the little hill between your two garden plots.

If you wish to do asperagrass, you must start with mature roots systems and plant in pure compost manure. Do not harvest for three years. So if you planted today you would not be able to harvest untill 2016. If you do seed, make that five years or 2018.

Mulch everything well and you will use less water. I would put drip lines under the mulch. Relatively cheap and better for the plants as the fruit will not suffer from moisture blights.

So in review, dig the ground asap. Add amendments. Dig again in three weeks. Till to fine granules and plant your veggies in rows, your fruit plants in berms and your mallows in little highly manured hills. 

Just add water. 
enjoy.

At least until the bugs, pests, varmints and diseases come to rob you.

And remeber this axiom of gardening,,,,No matter what happens to your plans, your plants, your hopes and dreams,,,,there is always next year!


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## bczoom

To add to Franc's post.

Manure.  I don't believe there's a thing of using too much.  Don't be shy with it.  In the size area you have, I put in about 15 tons (about 10" thick once tilled).  If you have the choice, get stuff that's a few years old.  When fresh, it's really slick when wet and it's hard to dry.  Also, if you have a choice, use cow manure as opposed to horse.  Horse's digestive system don't break down seeds well so you'll get a lot more weeds compared to cow manure.

As for mulch, I use a garden cloth and cover with grass clippings from mowing the lawn to hold them down and keep moisture in.

BTW, what kind of rototiller(s) do you have or plan on using?  A large tiller off the 3-point of a tractor works best before planting.  Something small like a Honda Harmony is my preference over my Troy-Built Bronco for doing between rows (where there is no mulch).


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## FrancSevin

One thing I missed, do not plant tomatoes until the ground reaches 60 degrees F. Otherwise they will go into cold shock and never recover.

You can heat the gound with sunlight if you raise a berm ( a planting row) and cover it with black plastic. Or black weed block.


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## bczoom

Here's a quick photo tour of how I started one of my gardens.  It's on a hill so I needed to build it up to get it more level to reduce erosion.  All the grading, manure and such was done in the fall.

I was putting in a driveway next to it which is the area to the left.

Using the tractor rototiller, rough up the top few inches from both the driveway and garden area.  Skim the topsoil and put in a holding area in the garden.

Dig deeper under the driveway so I have 6-8" for the stone.  Put that fill dirt in the garden to level it off some.

Hit it with a layer of lime.

Top it off with manure.

Voila.  The crops growing the next season.


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## FrancSevin

Looks good BZOO.

I like the way you ended up withthe garden above grade. That promotes drainage, soil areation and good ventilation of the crops.
Lime is important in eastern soils. It promotes green growth, but remember, it will raise the PH.
As you pointed out, manure cannot be overdone. Especialy if it is compost manure. Well rotted compost and composted manure tends to balance PH levels automaticaly. Compost,,,AKA "Black Gold" cures so many ailments in the garden it is considered by most avid gardeners as nature's miracle.

I agree with you assessment about Horsemanures. However, If bedded in wood chips, the resulting horsemanure is more balnced than cow manure. So let it cook for two seasons to kill off the seeds, mix it well with composting leaves and garden debris.....it makes an excellet amendment. 

I mix it 50/50 with river sand to amend my clay soils. I make up a batch in the wheel barrow and use it as a planting medium when I set new greenhouse plants like Tomatoes, Peppers, Mallows and any flowering ornamentals including annuals and perrenials. You can plant seeds right in the stuff, no worries.

When planting Azelias and Rhodedendrons, I mix in some sulphur and replace the sand with decomposing granite. Our soils here are so base acid loving evergreens need them.


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## bczoom

Speaking of throwing "stuff" in the ground, don't forget your ashes from the wood stove _and if you burn paper only (no plastics or other crap)_ from the burn barrel.  If you have a scrap burn pile where you burn pallets or whatever don't put that in your garden as it contains nails and other crap you really don't want in the garden.

From harvest time in the fall until planting time in the spring, I put the burn barrel right in the garden (on 3 bricks).  When it starts to fill, I just kick it over and roll it around a bit and let the ashes spread.


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## loboloco

Be careful with the type of manure you use, if you do use it.  Some are really high in nitrogen and can cause problems. Chicken manure and hog manure are two of the types to be careful with.  Rabbit manure is more balanced, but can sometimes be hard to find in the right amounts.


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## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Hope you like pulling weeds.


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## FrancSevin

bczoom said:


> Speaking of throwing "stuff" in the ground, don't forget your ashes from the wood stove _and if you burn paper only (no plastics or other crap)_ from the burn barrel. If you have a scrap burn pile where you burn pallets or whatever don't put that in your garden as it contains nails and other crap you really don't want in the garden.
> 
> From harvest time in the fall until planting time in the spring, I put the burn barrel right in the garden (on 3 bricks). When it starts to fill, I just kick it over and roll it around a bit and let the ashes spread.


 
Ashes are a fine soil amendment. Besides trace elements, they contain lots of carbon. The basic building block of all Plants.

However, they raise the PH. Be sure to add a a balncing amendment to lower it.

I cannot stress enough the importance of proper ph levels in a garden plot. A high population of nutrient sucking plants, coupled with the artifical importation of exotic nutrients (fertilizers and their salts) it is fairly easy to get the PH condition out of wack.

Warning, do not put wood ashes on Azealias or Rhodes. Do not put it in compost going on such acid lovers. It will kill them.

The advice about Pig and Chicken manure is valid. You can actually make a nitrogen explosive out of Chicken manure.

If you use it on tomatoes, you will grow the largest healthiest, tallest, greenest, tomatoe plants you have ever seen. And you will get virtually no fruit.


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## squerly

What effect will coffee grounds have on my strawberries and raspberry plants?  I've got the living in 5-gallon buckets until the weather gets better.  Will tossing the grounds on them benefit or hurt?


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## 300 H and H

Wow,

We have some master gardeners here amungst us....

Very good advice I would have to say. I am impresed by the information you are sharing. 

We garden with a black plastic sheet over the ground, and cut holes to plant through it. NO weeding is nessary for the most part, and the cover holds the moister in, so less water is used. Preen is also a good gardern herbicied for weed to, best on grass, and small seeded broadleaf weeds.

Regards, Kirk


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## bczoom

squerly said:


> What effect will coffee grounds have on my strawberries and raspberry plants?  I've got the living in 5-gallon buckets until the weather gets better.  Will tossing the grounds on them benefit or hurt?


I'd apply in moderation.  Basically, don't throw several pounds of grounds into a 5-gallon bucket.  Coffee grounds are acidic and high in nitrogen (which are both good) but you don't want to get into "too much of a good thing".

I spread my grounds out in the garden and don't recall ever using them in a potting situation.


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## FrancSevin

squerly said:


> What effect will coffee grounds have on my strawberries and raspberry plants? I've got the living in 5-gallon buckets until the weather gets better. Will tossing the grounds on them benefit or hurt?


 
Coffee grounds are much like Pecan shells. Good for the soil as they help aerate it and do attract earthworms. Slightly acidic, they will improve the production of fruit on your berries. I recommend using them liberaly.  especialy in your highly mineral soils.
Up to 35% by volume is Okay.

The nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium "guaranteed analyses" would be as follows for the coffee grounds:
*Nitrogen:* 2.28 percent
*Phosphorus:* 0.06 percent
*Potassium:* 0.6 percent 
*Available nutrient levels:* The pH or reaction of the coffee grounds is considered slightly acidic and in a favorable range at 6.2 on the pH scale.

_It might be a bit biased but Starbucks did a rather lengthy study._
http://www.sunset.com/garden/earth-friendly/starbucks-coffee-compost-test-00400000016986/


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## bczoom

Nitrogen: 2.28 percent
Phosphorus: 0.06 percent
Potassium: 0.6 percent 

I stand corrected.  I thought it was higher.


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## FrancSevin

bczoom said:


> Nitrogen: 2.28 percent
> Phosphorus: 0.06 percent
> Potassium: 0.6 percent
> 
> I stand corrected. I thought it was higher.


 
Yes but the Phosphurus and Potasium are very soluable where as the nitrogen is not. So these are good nutrient amounts without the Sslts associated with Chemical fertilizers.

If you read the article
_*Total nutrient levels:* Each cubic yard of these coffee grounds contains a total of 10.31 lbs. nitrogen, of which 0.01 lb. (0.09%) are available. Thus, even though available nitrogen is considered deficient in this product, there still remains over 10 lbs. of total nitrogen per cubic yard of coffee grounds. Thus, nitrogen is primarily bound in the organic fraction and is unavailable to plants until soil microorganisms degrade the organic fraction. Through this process, the nitrogen is converted to plant available forms. Over the long term the coffee grounds will act like a slow release fertilizer providing long-term nitrogen input which can then be utilized by plants_
http://www.sunset.com/garden/earth-friendly/starbucks-coffee-compost-test-00400000016986/

So, with micro organisms helping, the nitrogen is release *over time* and therefore provided long term. Meanwhile the Posphurous and Potasssium are ready now tohelp with bloom and therefore, fruits.

I throw all my grounds into the compost,,,,including the paper filters. They take about a year to break down but even if they didn't they help loosen clay soils and improve water absorption.

My kitchen cooks all from scratch.  So with those scraps, and my coffee grounds from three daily pots,,,,we generate about 10 cubic feet of black gold compost every winter.


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## EastTexFrank

I've been gardening for 30 years and am still on my 20-year quest for the no (low) work garden.  It's been a lot of fun.  I'm at the age now where I'm actually cutting back on the size of my garden but it's still big  enough to supply our household.

Having laid out my credentials, I find that I've not got a lot to add.  You've got some cracking advice here.  Stuff that took me a lifetime to learn.  Where the hell were you guys 30 years ago?  

The main thing is to get out there and enjoy it.  When you eat that first vine ripened tomato it'll make it all worthwhile.  Those Romas are good eating tomatoes but also make excellent sauce.  

Unlike Franc and Zoomer, I'm a composter.  I never put "raw" anything directly into the garden.  Cow manure, coffee grounds, grass clippings, ashes, some kitchen stuff, all of it goes on to the compost pile for at least two years.  I have two stalls wide enough to be turned by the front end loader of the small tractor.  It goes from one stall to the next stall and then into the garden.  

If you want some fun build a worm box.  They'll take care of all the kitchen waste and leave you with what can only be called "garden gold".  Also, you never have to worry about bait for fishing.  


Correction:  I see that I'm not the only composter on here.


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## FrancSevin

EastTexFrank said:


> I've been gardening for 30 years and am still on my 20-year quest for the no (low) work garden. It's been a lot of fun. I'm at the age now where I'm actually cutting back on the size of my garden but it's still big enough to supply our household.
> 
> Having laid out my credentials, I find that I've not got a lot to add. You've got some cracking advice here. Stuff that took me a lifetime to learn. Where the hell were you guys 30 years ago?
> 
> The main thing is to get out there and enjoy it. When you eat that first vine ripened tomato it'll make it all worthwhile. Those Romas are good eating tomatoes but also make excellent sauce.
> 
> Unlike Franc and Zoomer, I'm a composter. I never put "raw" anything directly into the garden. Cow manure, coffee grounds, grass clippings, ashes, some kitchen stuff, all of it goes on to the compost pile for at least two years. I have two stalls wide enough to be turned by the front end loader of the small tractor. It goes from one stall to the next stall and then into the garden.
> 
> If you want some fun build a worm box. They'll take care of all the kitchen waste and leave you with what can only be called "garden gold". Also, you never have to worry about bait for fishing.
> 
> 
> Correction: I see that I'm not the only composter on here.


 
Thirty years ago most of us were still learning . And you may have missunderstood my posts, I too am a composter.

However, it has been my experience that grass clippings make a great mulch right out of the mower bags. What they add to the compost process is mostly water, not nutrients. They will lay under your tomatoes all summer and hold moisture, keep the weeds down, cool the soil, and turn light brown. In the fall, just turn them under, they will compost over winter. Just be careful about using clippings with weed killers.

A good compost is made of dead pulverized trimmings, leaves, branches and wood sawdusts. Mix it 50/50 with green materials, like grass clippings, weeds and stem cuttings.

My neighbors pour tons of money into their lawns, cut the lush green grass and throw it away. They waste the very nutrition, they paid for dearly, in the trash. Several of them just dump their bags on my place and I incorporate that material into my composts. I also bring home ground tree trimings from tree service guys. That and all my fall leaves which I gather with the mower so they break down faster.

Properly aerated, a good compost can be made in 6 months. Three months during the summer. 
Composters are crazy and extreme. I am proud to claim membership in that club.


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## bczoom

I have a question for y'all.  I have some leftover geotextile cloth I used when building the driveway.  It's a lot heavier then normal landscape fabric.  Will that work any better or worse then the normal landscape fabric for weed protection between the rows?


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## FrancSevin

bczoom said:


> I have a question for y'all. I have some leftover geotextile cloth I used when building the driveway. It's a lot heavier then normal landscape fabric. Will that work any better or worse then the normal landscape fabric for weed protection between the rows?


 
So long as water and air will pass thru it is fine.


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## bczoom

Letting water through is what concerns me.  I'll dig out the roll once it warms up (it's snowing right now) and take a hose to it and see what happens.


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## Leni

I save my coffee grounds for my garden.  The worms love it.  

One thing that has not been mentioned.  Corn is wind pollenated so you want to grow that in a square or short rows across the prevailing wind.  One or two long rows will not produce nearly as much corn.


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## FrancSevin

Leni said:


> I save my coffee grounds for my garden. The worms love it.
> 
> One thing that has not been mentioned. Corn is wind pollenated so you want to grow that in a square or short rows across the prevailing wind. One or two long rows will not produce nearly as much corn.


 
I always plant two seeds in the hole to insure pollination.  Smaller ears but fuller.


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## bczoom

Yea, I grew my corn in a square but mine sucks compared to what I buy from the Amish.  My plot wasn't enough for us so I'd be buying anyway so now I use that space for other things.  I buy 30 dozen ears each year and we do a family production line and process all of them in 1 or 2 evenings.


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## bczoom

squerly said:


> This is my first year living full time on the mountain here in NC, and along with everything else I'm turning farmer!  Went to Tractor Supply yesterday and got seeds for my latest adventure.  We have:
> 
> 
> Onions (Yellow)
> Sweet Peppers
> Tomato (Roma)
> Pea's
> Radish's
> Cucumber's
> Hot Peppers
> Sweet Corn
> Carrot's
> Strawberries (Everbearing)
> Raspberries
> 
> I know nothing abut gardening so I hope these vegies will co-exist in the same area.  Any suggestions or advice will be appreciated!



Squerly - I didn't re-read all the posts but did we discuss (or do you know) what you're going to do with these at harvest time?  I see a lot of frozen veggies but are you going to can any sauces or pickles?


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## Aklian

I think he want to grow these whole vegetables and fruits to make his garden an attractive place and it is a very good thinking because these all plants grow well and provide us good rewards in the shape of fruits and vegetables.


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