# Covid 19



## MNoutdoors RIP

martial law may be coming, if containment is not reached in the next few weeks......
Dam going to have to stock up on rum and coke


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## PJL

Funny thing, I went to Costco tonight and actually found paper towels.  No toilet paper though.  But they had enough liquor to float a small boat.


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## 1boringguy

MNoutdoors said:


> martial law may be coming, if containment is not reached in the next few weeks......
> Dam going to have to stock up on rum and coke



Hope not, that comes with a whole other level of the loss of freedoms/rights.


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## EastTexFrank

PJL said:


> But they had enough liquor to float a small boat.



Glad to say that I saw it coming.  I have enough Scotch to float a small BATTLESHIP.  When I sober up in November, let me know how it all went down, will ya.


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## PJL

Active ingredient in hand sanitizer is Ethyl Alcohol. 

Active ingredient in scotch is Ethyl Alcohol. 

You'll be fine Frank.


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## Bannedjoe

I think we're witnessing the beginning of the new world order.
Things will probably never be the same again.

There's a few thousand sick people out there, and over 300 million of us have to obey and change?
I don't know what you want to call it, but everyone is now giving up freedom for security.
There's volumes written on that concept.


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## tiredretired

The current crop of ldiots swamping the stores, hording everything they can get their hands on are pathetic ass holes. 

These same idiots spent every day living in the moment and never planning or prepping for even a short term disruption in the supply chain.  

Now they are all running to the gun stores and cleaning off the shelves of ammo.  What the hell. Never did they think a day like this could come given the f**ked up world we live in.  

I've been able to stay out of the supermarkets since this started because I keep at least a 90 day supply of food, meds and supplies on hand.  

I shall see what it is like on April 1st or so when I attempt to replenish eggs, milk and fresh vegetables.  Just the thought of diving into the powdered eggs and milk makes me shudder, but at least they are available.  Awful stuff.  :th_lmao:


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## m1west

MNoutdoors said:


> martial law may be coming, if containment is not reached in the next few weeks......
> Dam going to have to stock up on rum and coke



That is a very scary thought but possible


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## PJL

My 2 cents, in a country where armed citizens are out numbered by armed government types martial law can be imposed.  

That won't work so well here.


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## MNoutdoors RIP

PJL said:


> My 2 cents, in a country where armed citizens are out numbered by armed government types martial law can be imposed.
> 
> That won't work so well here.



I agree with your thoughts but, if your visited by national guardsmen that 
Come in the middle of the night asking for your guns. How are you going to respond? Comply or resist ? I will have no other choice but to comply and give them my 2 guns


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## m1west

MNoutdoors said:


> I agree with your thoughts but, if your visited by national guardsmen that
> Come in the middle of the night asking for your guns. How are you going to respond? Comply or resist ? I will have no other choice but to comply and give them my 2 guns




If and when that happens I will be on top of a mountain on 80 acres off grid, unless they have ESP they will not know am there for a long time and by then they better bring a lot of help.


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## 1boringguy

When things start happening to fast it can get crazy in a hurry. 

  I'm not giving up my Rum until they pry my cold dead fingers from around the bottle.


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## EastTexFrank

1boringguy said:


> When things start happening to fast it can get crazy in a hurry.
> 
> I'm not giving up my Rum until they pry my cold dead fingers from around the bottle.



Hey, you ain't so boring!!!


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## Backyardski

I found something productive to do, and I’ve got free labor with the boys home from school. Dumpster time!! Finally getting rid of all the accumulated crap.

Had to get a cat or 2 in the photo of course


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## MNoutdoors RIP

New survival belt buckle


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## PJL

Your 2 guns, that was funny.


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## leadarrows

PJL said:


> My 2 cents, in a country where armed citizens are out numbered by armed government types martial law can be imposed.
> 
> That won't work so well here.




Don't kid yourself, 1 A10, 1 Apache helicopter can beat any force civilians can muster. It won't even be a contest.


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## rockhead

leadarrows said:


> Don't kid yourself, 1 A10, 1 Apache helicopter can beat any force civilians can muster. It won't even be a contest.




Ask the folks at Waco how it works out to bring a gun to a tank fight ?


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## rockhead

Bannedjoe said:


> I think we're witnessing the beginning of the new world order.
> Things will probably never be the same again.
> 
> There's a few thousand sick people out there, and over 300 million of us have to obey and change?
> I don't know what you want to call it, but everyone is now giving up freedom for security.
> There's volumes written on that concept.




Shouldn't you be spring breaking with your peers at Miami Beach ?  Or perhaps in Milan taunting people on ventilators ?


Clearly social distancing won't be a problem for you.


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## m1west

leadarrows said:


> Don't kid yourself, 1 A10, 1 Apache helicopter can beat any force civilians can muster. It won't even be a contest.



Those goat herders in Afghanistan have been doing a pretty good job keeping them at bay, so I think we could do a pretty good job to.


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## Bannedjoe

rockhead said:


> Shouldn't you be spring breaking with your peers at Miami Beach ?  Or perhaps in Milan taunting people on ventilators ?
> 
> 
> Clearly social distancing won't be a problem for you.



Not sure I get your point.
Please hang up and try again.


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## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

All I have to say is that Americans in general aren't a very compliant group and don't generally seem to like taking orders from anyone.  Martial law might work in some cities but in general I'm pretty sure it will be a big failure.

I think all we are seeing is a bunch of "caremongering" from all the politicians, media and celebrities.  Everyone is going out of their way to act extra compassionate.  But that will only last for a while.  I'm already seeing the frustration in the city dwelling people I work with.


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## JimVT

the somber attitude of trump in the news cast  kind of tells a different story than what he is telling us. to me it doesn't look to promising.


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## EastTexFrank

JimVT said:


> the somber attitude of trump in the news cast  kind of tells a different story than what he is telling us. to me it doesn't look to promising.



Jim, I have no doubt that this is going to get ugly, especially in the high population density areas.  What I think Trump is trying to do, to his credit, is give us the information that he has without all the spin that the media would like to put on it.  I think that the fact that he is giving daily press briefing shows that his main concern is the American people and that he thinks that they need an unbiased source of information.  He is being a leader.

My wife, who has never been a fan of Donald Trump, has been watching his daily briefings.  In this situation, she has been incredibly impressed by him.  She still doesn't like him all that much but she says that his leadership skills have been impressive.  There is no doubt who is in charge.  She has also been impressed by Mike Pompeo but the person on that dais who has really impressed her has been Mike Pence.  We might have a candidate for 2004.


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## NorthernRedneck

Up here, Trudeau has been the same. I don't care for the guy but he has taken a strong sobering stance on this whole situation. Considering that he is in self isolation with his wife and children as she has tested positive for the virus.


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## tiredretired

Day 9 of House Arrest for us.

Our neighbors are all bearing up well.  I called a half dozen of them last evening and they have a great attitude.  All of them are maintaining their house arrest and doing well. A determined lot.    

The snow is gone now and no more snowmobiles buzzing by on the VAST trail so the hopes of warmer weather will put a crimp in this whole thing and we all get a level of normalcy back to our lives.  Not sure what the new normal will be, time will tell on that. 

Say what you will about POTUS but he has great organizational skills and I believe he will see us through this.  At least he is not like some of those asshole senators who seemed more concerned with their personal portfolios than the American people.  No, I was not surprised.  Are any of you?


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## Pontoon Princess

this saids it all, thank you mother tucker for this one!


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## tiredretired

Pontoon Princess said:


> this saids it all, thank you mother tucker for this one!



:th_lmao::th_lmao:   LOL, good one PP.  It is imperative we keep our sense of humor through all this.  We lose that, we are totally screwed.


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## rockhead

TiredRetired said:


> Say what you will about POTUS but he has great organizational skills and I believe he will see us through this.




Wow.  Just like that the cult turns on a dime.  A couple weeks ago it was a HOAX, now the 'Glorious Leader' is all knowing and all powerful . 


The koolaid is clearly extra-strength.


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## tiredretired

rockhead said:


> Wow.  Just like that the cult turns on a dime.  A couple weeks ago it was a HOAX, now the 'Glorious Leader' is all knowing and all powerful .
> 
> 
> The koolaid is clearly extra-strength.



Well it most certainly does appear you have the right moniker. * ROCKHEAD.  *  In the meantime, why don't you come on over to the political section here and discuss Trump if you hate him so much.  If you have the balls ROCKHEAD. Of course, I am sure you prefer to sit over here in this section sitting in your sno-cat blowing packed powder up your ass.  

Now you may report me for being mean to you snowflake.


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## rockhead

TiredRetired said:


> Why don't you get back on your fucking Sno-Cat and blow some packed powder up your ass you fucking stiff pin.  Maybe your idea of a glorious leader was the Kenyan or his beatch Killery.  Jerk.




:th_lmao::th_lmao::th_lmao::th_lmao:
Feel free to update these numbers . . .


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## rockhead

TiredRetired said:


> Well it most certainly does appear you have the right moniker. * ROCKHEAD.  *  In the meantime, why don't you come on over to the political section here and discuss Trump if you hate him so much.  If you have the balls ROCKHEAD. Of course, I am sure you prefer to sit over here in this section sitting in your sno-cat blowing packed powder up your ass.
> 
> Now you may report me for being mean to you snowflake.






  I have no need to bother with the 'political' section, I feel I have wasted enough air here already.


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## tiredretired

You asshole liberals are all alike.  Maybe Sleepy Creepy Joe will save you snowflakes from yourselves.  Maybe he will pick Mattress Lady Kamala as his VP. 

Dipshit.


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## rockhead

TiredRetired said:


> PP.  It is imperative we keep our sense of humor  through all this.  We lose that, we are totally screwed.






TiredRetired said:


> You asshole liberals are all alike.  Maybe Sleepy Creepy Joe will save you snowflakes from yourselves.  Maybe he will pick Mattress Lady Kamala as his VP.
> 
> Dipshit.




Awwww, does someone need a hug ?


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## Backyardski

The politicians have been encouraging the knifing of each other for years. Exploiting the wedge issues that in reality have little to do with our own lives. Us-v- them. 
It doesn’t matter what hat you wear, our lives are going to be significantly altered no matter who the mouth is at the top. This is bigger than a slogan. We are Americans,(and Canadians and some from a few other places) we’ll help each other out and we’ll put it back together once we figure this out. Not sure if anyone heard Gov. Cuomo and Sean Hannity having a sane conversation yesterday but that speaks volumes. 
It’s a pretty small world that we live on and this disruption affects everyone. 

This started as a humorous thread to help keep each other’s spirits up, maybe we could get back to that?


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## tiredretired

rockhead said:


> Awwww, does someone need a hug ?



Not from you shit head.  I'm sorry. That's ROCKHEAD. My bad.  Boy, someone had you figured out when they handed you that moniker.:th_lmao::th_lmao::th_lmao:


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## Pontoon Princess

no man is an island


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## mla2ofus

Butch, don't argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
Mike


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## tiredretired

mla2ofus said:


> Butch, don't argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
> Mike



Yeah, I know Mike. The TDS is strong in that padawan, is it not?  :th_lmao:


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## Pontoon Princess

another one


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## Pontoon Princess

another


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## redsqwrl

rockhead said:


> :th_lmao::th_lmao::th_lmao::th_lmao:
> Feel free to update these numbers . . .




So I feel this is humorous, if you don't that's on you. 
If you want to hit me in the feels go for it, my grand mother went septic after the Flu. Sepsis is fatal.

Here is something to think about......

this current kooty KRaze is the title of this thread.  

attached is a CDC report of normal flu.

"cases"
"deaths"
"social distance"
" infection"
" pandemic"
"Shelter in place"
" barriers"
"lock down"
"out break"
"Tested positive"

It is likely this is the second if not third wave of the kooties. test 300,000,000 and you will find Positive results.

Report facts. good luck, facts don't generate impresion points.

Have a brain and factor or reason out the facts for yourself.  You are going to get this flu and survive just the same way you survived all the past CASES you have been infected with.
Trashing the economy and piling on debt is because the kooties has __________?

What___________?

What does it have that any of the other pandemics had.

FEAR this whole malarchy is FEAR.

sorry if the picture is sideways.

$.02


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## 1boringguy

Oil, $-37.63 per barrel, time to crack open another bottle of rum.


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## redsqwrl

I am glad to hear a couple southern states have the balls to open up some nonessential business and service industries.

there is a lot of distilleries in that region.........


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## EastTexFrank

1boringguy said:


> Oil, $-37.63 per barrel, time to crack open another bottle of rum.



I'd be glad to join you but since my royalty checks have gone to shit I can't afford it.  Just kidding.  I'm a Scotch drinker.


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## undy

I hope this coronavirus is a fake too, but I don't know.  What I hear from friends in healthcare, it's much deadlier than influenza.  

As of this morning, over 45,000 people in the U.S. have died over Covid-19, around as many as are shown on Mike's post above.  But consider that those flu deaths mainly occurred without people being isolated, while the Covid-19 deaths mainly occurred _despite_ people being isolated.  That's a huge difference.

I think Mike has something about testing 300,000,000 people, as that's the only method of knowing what's happening.

But it's interesting to look at the opposite views about reopening the economy, and consider what's being said and by whom.  Here's some interesting information:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRFbwjwQ4VE


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## redsqwrl

listened to the video at 2X speed so I may have missed some stuff.. but entertaining sound byte compliations are a reality.

Which ever side you live on, You are getting this bug.  excercise, move, breath and remain vigilant.

it will be back in fall,


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## m1west

its now listed as the leading cause of death in the US


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## undy

As of yesterday, Texas reported it's highest daily death toll and immediately reopens for business.. I wish them well.

From the Houston Chronicle:  https://www.houstonchronicle.com/po...st-deaths-in-a-day-from-COVID-19-15238205.php

:th_lmao:

I'm sorry, I probably shouldn't be laughing at this.  But it sure seems like an imprudent decision to me.


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## redsqwrl

well as a disobedient citizen I am not convinced that the safer at home approach is the best approach.  My situation is in the hands of the District attorney and I await my *ticket* How this plays out is going to interesting.  I feel that if they stopped looking for this flu, they would stop finding it. the handful of folks I know that have endured its wrath did not know they had it. and mentioned feeling winded while skiing.
the increased law enforcement in the North south thourough fares this weekend is sending a message.  
Tavern owners telling deputy sherriffs to get the ______ out of their taverns was interesting.
If the health care system is within its safe operating limits, I say open it up. I have business owner with 3-$400 electric bills. product on the shelfs of freezers and stalling this situation for something that you are likely going to get anyway seems silly.

Go texas


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## undy

Mike,

I guess none of us really know how this will play out, and we don't have much choice but to wait and see.  But I sure hope you are the correct one here!  

However, here are some very interesting graphs of numbers of people tested, having, and died from Covid-19 in Texas, especially the "Deaths Due To The Coronavirus In Texas By Date" graph.  Unfortunately, it's still on an upward slope, despite businesses opening up.
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/co...-map-houston-texas-us-case-virus-15142609.php

The data is staggering.  
* The United States will likely top 70,000 deaths from Covid-19 in the next 24-48 hours.  
* In less than 6 months, Covid-19 has surpassed the total number of fatalities from the Vietnam war, and that lasted 19 years!  
* Covid-19 is now the leading cause of death in the U.S. https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-leading-cause-of-death.html. Consider that.  It now outpaces deaths from car accidents, smoking, and homicide!

Historically, we have always reacted to hazards of this magnitude.  In 1966, in response to rising highway deaths, the U.S. enacted the Highway Safety Act to lower accident rates.  This Act resulted in the U.S. Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (FMVSS) which still dictate automobile safety equipment to this day.  This was a HUGE change we made, yet highway deaths never reached even 50,000 in one year.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in_U.S._by_year. Covid-19 has already surpassed that number in less than a half year.

You are correct that the symptoms vary widely from person too person, and many people experience very mild symptoms.  But they still can infect others, even if they are totally non-symptomatic.  Nobody wants to be the guy who unwittingly brought this crap home and accidentally killed Grandma.

It's easy to be complacent, until it's too late.  You only need to look at the numbers in some other places to see how bad it can get.  

So, should we open up now?  This comment was from 2 days ago:
"There are now five countries with more than 20,000 accumulated confirmed deaths: USA, Italy, Spain, France and United Kingdom. While the numbers of people dying are slowing down in Italy and Spain, in the USA they almost doubled. This suggests that the USA have not reached the peak yet, president Trump is pushing for a quicker end of the lockdown."
https://worldmapper.org/covid-19-coronavirus/

Time will tell.  But I'm hoping for the best, and planning for the worst.  

And I hope that the next time we see each other, this will all be in the rearview mirror, we can share a beer and I can dine on crow!!  Stay safe!!


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## alryA

This new virus and one of the most contagious, ever seen.  There is nearly no help for those who get very ill from it.  Where as the flu, there are many options to help people and its much less contagious, plus we have vaccinations for it.


We hope to not get this novel virus.


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## rockhead

Anybody who can look at overwhelmed hospitals in Italy and reefer-truck morgues in NY and be unphased has clearly put a very low value on the lives of their fellow citizens.


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## m1west

Almost like Nature is evening the score and forcing a survival of the fittest situation in the face of modern medicine. For thousands of years thats the way it worked, if you were not healthy nature took you out. Over the last 75 years there are a lot of folks gaming the system with modern medicine. Heart disease, diabetes, cancer, immune diseases, old age etc. enter the Wuhan flu and it is back the way it was.


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## Bannedjoe

m1west said:


> Almost like Nature is evening the score and forcing a survival of the fittest situation in the face of modern medicine. For thousands of years thats the way it worked, if you were not healthy nature took you out. Over the last 75 years there are a lot of folks gaming the system with modern medicine. Heart disease, diabetes, cancer, immune diseases, old age etc. enter the Wuhan flu and it is back the way it was.



She keeps tryin'.
That aids thing was almost a success.


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## alryA

There have been perfect healthy people die from this novel virus. Its not yet understood why less than healthy people will have minor illness, then some healthy ones die.  Its a crap shoot that I'd not like to get, or spread around.


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## m1west

alryA said:


> There have been perfect healthy people die from this novel virus. Its not yet understood why less than people can have minor illness, then some healthy ones die.  Its a crap shoot that I'd not like to get, or spread around.



Unless they come up with a vaccine you me and everyone else's going to get it. Or the world economy will fail. Then more people will die from that than the virus.


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## undy

m1west said:


> Unless they come up with a vaccine you me and everyone else's going to get it. Or the world economy will fail. Then more people will die from that than the virus.



Yup, and until they come up with that vaccine and administer it globally, we are all in danger.

But there's another component.  I think we agree that it seems that some people are less symptomatic than others, but who?  We also know that lots of people have it, or have already had it, but who?  

Until truly massive scale testing is done across the globe, and until we really know who has it or had it (or we wait for it to miraculously go away ), the economy is going to pay.

I don't see any way for the economy to effectively reopen safely without testing, not just to assess worker/workplace safety but also to restore the public's trust enough to make reopened businesses thrive.  A lack of testing may destroy the economy, ultimately.

So I'd suggest that the single best way to save the economy might be to prioritize testing and analysis of those results.


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## redsqwrl

alryA said:


> This new virus and one of the most contagious, ever seen.  There is nearly no help for those who get very ill from it.  Where as the flu, there are many options to help people and its much less contagious, plus we have vaccinations for it.
> 
> 
> We hope to not get this novel virus.



The screen shot in #42 is relevant here.


That is the CDC from last year. You can look at the last 20 years and the NORMAL old Flu in any given year has been recorded as more than 50K deaths. My grandmother died from the flu many years ago. It was brutal to watch my mother look at my grandfather and affirm the *morphine to help her* was the best policy.

My point is I respect the fear.
I respect the concern.
but lets get this in focus.

Its here.
You are getting it.

Now do I go hide in the corner and let someone shoot up my classroom at the college while hiding in the corner.? Or do I risk the $347 misdemeanor fine for possibly carrying a piece of equipment that would likely make the evil piss himself and run?

it is easy to sit and be all bold on a key board. but the reality of this flu is; do I want it delivered to the house by the fed-ex guy, on a head gasket for a tucker i am rebuilding? or go get it myself helping and apprentice who lost his job. does not have a clothes washer, so I bring him one I repaired and get the damn flu from his wife who is essential and brought it home...... 

Open the country up. shake hands. allow LIFE. If I have to face Undy and nod while holding my hands in front of my I am going to be crabby.

the band is still playing. the ship hasn't sunk yet.....
Don't let it


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## undy

I hate looking under rocks, because you always find more rocks to look under.

As reported by NYT, a new CDC report estimates that by June 1, the U.S. could be seeing around 3000 deaths.  

PER DAY.          

Let that sink in.







Here's a link to an NPR story about it.  It has the link to the NYT story and the CDC report.
https://www.npr.org/sections/health...-document-and-its-3-000-deaths-a-day-scenario

Of course, we're not there yet, and there's no guarantee that's what's going to happen.  The article describes that this is but one of the scenarios that is being modeled.  But that's what is being predicted.


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## undy

You better not be crabby next time I see ya Mike!  I don't know if there is a correct answer to this.  

This is a thorny public policy issue because this virus is so infectious that it creates a conflict between an individual's liberty and their threat to other people's health, and either of those has the potential to destroy the economy (which in turn threatens them both!).

To me, as much as I love liberty and miss life as it was, the threat is sufficient to convince me that I'm better off at home for now.

Anyway, stay safe my friend.  This too shall pass, and I'll keep the beers cold.


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## Bannedjoe

When will they be issuing the murder hornet stimulus checks?


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## redsqwrl

<iframe width="853" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/l_L6AS1Huno" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

watch this little skit from a guy who died from heart disease.

Yeah, I am glad the pres is touting his wall and murder hornets are getting air time in the main stream news.
 we need a diversion for sure.
a drugged racing horse.
Indy 500 scandal
Where is the fat korean kid and his toy nukes.....
 Get out and plant a garden
 build a tree fort.
 shut of the tv 
go live. 
Go for a hike and find a waterfall.  
In the arid southwest?, good it will take a while....

There were 48,000,000 cases of the flu last year. couple hundred a day died. per day. there are members here that almost lost their kids from Swine flu. 

Life sucks. go live what little you have.


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## alryA

Among the unknowns of this novel virus, is they found a reoccurrence of it.   Its highly contagious plus it kills or hospitalizes many people.  Plus you can get it a 2nd time.


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## Backyardski

You can reopen safely, using data and science and a plan It doesn’t have to be only all closed or all open. NY is on the decline for hospital admissions, and the daily death rate, allowing safe reopening for some of the regions of NY, in about 10 days. Most people are following the guidelines, no big gatherings and cover the pie hole when you are around people and in stores. The hospitals need to have 30% of their capacity available to handle outbreaks. If they don’t  then they slow the reopening in that area. Seems reasonable to me, I’d rather have a shot at a hospital bed if I needed it than croak out in the hospital parking lot. NY daily death rate declining, US daily death rate rising. New York was hit earlier. 
Six weeks of shut down is only worth it if it doesn’t have to happen again. Countries that haven’t done it correctly had fresh outbreaks and ended up where they were, overwhelming the hospitals.

Link to NY plan
https://www.governor.ny.gov/new-york-forward/regional-guidelines-re-opening-new-york

I had a thought about the people that feel their rights are being trampled on by requiring masks in stores, they also get to tie a handkerchief across their face concealing their identities. In a way we gain a little freedom, and we don’t spread it to people that might not have the superior genes of a snowcat owner. (See, fits into the snowcat section)

Plenty of good life to be living even if we have to take it a little slow and easy.


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## Melensdad

Backyardski said:


> You can reopen safely, using data and science and a plan It doesn’t have to be only all closed or all open....
> 
> I had a thought about the people that feel their rights are being trampled on by requiring masks in stores, they also get to tie a handkerchief across their face concealing their identities. In a way we gain a little freedom, and we don’t spread it to people that *might not have the superior genes of a snowcat owner. (See, fits into the snowcat section)*
> 
> Plenty of good life to be living even if we have to take it a little slow and easy.


Generally we are in agreement.

I happen to be one of those 'immunocompromised' people and I take immunosuppressive drugs.  However that is MY PROBLEM and not the world's problem.  You should not put me at intentional risk, but neither should I stop you from living or making a living.

I also happen to run a local sport fencing club and we are trying to figure out how to safely open the club.  There is a lot of sweating, heavy breathing and human contact in olympic style fencing.  Pretty much hard to avoid all that.  Our state issued guidance.  Stay 6' apart.  But that is impossible because the sport requires we get closer than 6' away from our opponents.  In theory we have to wear a mask over our face under our steel safety face mask.  Not sure people can actually breathe and fence with a face mask on under protective mask.​
Each business is different.  

Each state will issue different guidelines.

But we do all need to use good science to find our way out of this mess and somehow we all need to find our way out of this.


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## Backyardski

Yeah, I was only joking about that part. 
I agree, protect those at higher risk, do what works to get the stuff open and monitor what is happening. Adjust as necessary

Use a 12’ foil?


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## m1west

At this point, what we know for sure is it no more deadly than the 2018-2019 Flu with the transmission rate much higher. I say its up to the individual, if you feel you are High risk like Bob or have someone at home thats high risk stay home if thats what you need to do. If you are 40 healthy and losing your business because you're not open and you're not scared, Go back to work. I am 62 and healthy as far as I know. I have been going to plants for job walks and jobs, I have to or they will call someone else and I will lose that account, lose to many accounts and lose my business and way of life. I am not willing to do that. I don't know about you guys but I am not willing to sit at home while everything I have worked for goes to shit. It may very well go to shit anyway if we go into a recession or depression and thats another discussion.


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## rockhead

Bannedjoe said:


> When will they be issuing the murder hornet stimulus checks?




:th_lmao::th_lmao::th_lmao::th_lmao:
Do I have to get stung ?


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## rockhead

Backyardski said:


> Yeah, I was only joking about that part.
> I agree, protect those at higher risk, do what works to get the stuff open and monitor what is happening. Adjust as necessary
> 
> Use a 12’ foil?






Surely you joust ?!


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## redsqwrl

Here is the Badger bounce back plan.   https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/covid-19/prepare.htm


I am an instructor at a college and run a club as well.  the silliness of some of the elements intrigue me.

example:
BBB Plan phase two allows me to train apprentices. In a classroom.  with 10 people total. a full normal section contains 13. 9 students + 1 instructo is the rule. we have training rooms that range from 600 sq feet to 1100 square feet. our air exchanges are 3.5 to 4 times per hour. controlled automatically and can go to 3-4 per minute and Have UV light treatment and a filteration system I don't recall at this instant. available.
I asked if I could add a table in the front 180 Square feet. to get a section of 10 learners plus me. The heat I took in body language and tongue lashing I took from my manager about not being safe made my mind explode. we have lecture halls that are 4000 square feet.  the room can be small or big. the rule is 10 people regardless.

Here is the beauty part. at work, these 20 - 30 yr old essential trades workers are piled into commingled work spaces. on top of one another.

everything is blurring together. influenza like symptoms are merged into the data of , h1n1, alergies, covid and colds. originally we were safer at home to not over whelm the care system. 

we are. it is not.

club.

I went to interact with a small group. we are ordering a grooming machine. they take a long time to build. the dealer is not essential. we are ordering it remote via technology. when a complaint was lodged with the sheriff's dept we were interviewed as to the purpose of our GTG. operators, equipment managers and mechanics were standing in a large circle around a picnic table finalizing the order. ( this is wisconsin, we did not even have a beer ) the situation is not consistent with common sense.
there is no reason to not allow this particular situation. fencing is tough. that is a almost full contact situation. I feel for wrestling, Track, band concerts.

Pick up a paper and look at what we are headed for. there will be no dancing, cheer and pom, trap shooting archery name an event we can participate with this silly distancing idea. 

What ever happened to Aids and e- coli from under cooked meat.  I actually had a deer tick and I am freaking out more about the fact that is was in its nymph stage and starting to attach itself to me. than I am about a flu strain i believe I had back in january when My co worker had it. 32 years of work. not one sick day. I am starting to wonder if I am some sort of carrier and have been perpetually sick all my life.......


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## KickerM

I’m convinced that COVID was running thru MN Schools both before and after Christmas break, a highly infectious bug that caused Fever, Cough, and fatigue...sound familiar??? Several schools closed for a week just to break the “flu” cycle. With the amount and pace of travel that people do these days this Virus was likely here soon after the Chinese tried to hide it starting back in Sept/Oct...the main take away is this: China is a communist country and you cannot believe anything that they say; they have 1 goal and that is to be the worlds largest super power...you decide how they get there


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## Backyardski

redsqwrl said:


> Here is the Badger bounce back plan.   https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/covid-19/prepare.htm
> 
> 
> I am an instructor at a college and run a club as well.  the silliness of some of the elements intrigue me.
> 
> example:
> BBB Plan phase two allows me to train apprentices. In a classroom.  with 10 people total. a full normal section contains 13. 9 students + 1 instructo is the rule. we have training rooms that range from 600 sq feet to 1100 square feet. our air exchanges are 3.5 to 4 times per hour. controlled automatically and can go to 3-4 per minute and Have UV light treatment and a filteration system I don't recall at this instant. available.
> I asked if I could add a table in the front 180 Square feet. to get a section of 10 learners plus me. The heat I took in body language and tongue lashing I took from my manager about not being safe made my mind explode. we have lecture halls that are 4000 square feet.  the room can be small or big. the rule is 10 people regardless.
> 
> Here is the beauty part. at work, these 20 - 30 yr old essential trades workers are piled into commingled work spaces. on top of one another.
> 
> everything is blurring together. influenza like symptoms are merged into the data of , h1n1, alergies, covid and colds. originally we were safer at home to not over whelm the care system.
> 
> we are. it is not.
> 
> club.
> 
> I went to interact with a small group. we are ordering a grooming machine. they take a long time to build. the dealer is not essential. we are ordering it remote via technology. when a complaint was lodged with the sheriff's dept we were interviewed as to the purpose of our GTG. operators, equipment managers and mechanics were standing in a large circle around a picnic table finalizing the order. ( this is wisconsin, we did not even have a beer ) the situation is not consistent with common sense.
> there is no reason to not allow this particular situation. fencing is tough. that is a almost full contact situation. I feel for wrestling, Track, band concerts.
> 
> Pick up a paper and look at what we are headed for. there will be no dancing, cheer and pom, trap shooting archery name an event we can participate with this silly distancing idea.
> 
> What ever happened to Aids and e- coli from under cooked meat.  I actually had a deer tick and I am freaking out more about the fact that is was in its nymph stage and starting to attach itself to me. than I am about a flu strain i believe I had back in january when My co worker had it. 32 years of work. not one sick day. I am starting to wonder if I am some sort of carrier and have been perpetually sick all my life.......



What if you made it into two rooms with a plexiglass squirrel cage in the middle? Less than 10 in a room...


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## Melensdad

Something like 98% of the people who get this are going to survive.  It is very infectious, so a LOT of people are going to get it.  And a LOT of people are going to die.  But the reality is that most of those people will be over 65.  Most will be obese, have heart conditions, or Type 2 diabetes, or other underlying conditions.

I'm 59, but I have a triggering underlying condition, not obese, but immunosuppressed.  Without the underlying conditions I'd be in the 99.5% survival group.  With the underlying conditions my odds drop down to closer to 80%.  Still good, but a lot worse.  I'm fortunate enough to be able to reasonably self-isolate on a hobby farm property with fairly secure passive income.

Lots of people like me live pay-check-to-pay-check and can't do what I do.  Somehow they must be protected.  They need some sort of job protection?  Or they need some sort of stimulus check every month?  If the government would protect JUST THOSE PEOPLE who are in this situation then the rest of you could get on with your lives, the economy would not collapse, the businesses will not close down, the jobs will not be lost.  And it would cost A LOT LESS $$$ and be a LOT EASIER for 80% of the human population that is UNDER 65 or has NO UNDERLYING health issue. 

And yes, almost all of you will get sick, and yes, 99.5% of you will recover.  50% of you will never even know you were sick.  5-10% of you might get sick enough that you spend a night or two in the hospital but then get released and recover.





SWEDEN is often touted because it remained "open for business" and people think they just did nothing.  But that is far from the truth.  Sweden did a massive education of their population to try to protect their "at risk" population and people are doing a much better job of following that than we are in other nations.  That said, the death rate in Sweden is high, and still going up, especially among the "at risk" population.  And SWEDEN is doing some really interesting things to discourage social gatherings.  They have spread chicken pool around parks to discourage picnics and lots of other things that people never hear about.  So its not all roses and cherry blossoms in Sweden where they stayed "open" as a society.







KickerM said:


> I’m convinced that COVID was running thru MN Schools both before and after Christmas break, a highly infectious bug that caused Fever, Cough, and fatigue...sound familiar??? Several schools closed for a week just to break the “flu” cycle. With the amount and pace of travel that people do these days this Virus was likely here soon after the Chinese tried to hide it starting back in Sept/Oct...the main take away is this: China is a communist country and you cannot believe anything that they say; they have 1 goal and that is to be the worlds largest super power...you decide how they get there



Influenza B was also going around at that time.  Similar symptoms.

I can find no evidence of the Wuhan Flu in the USA before Christmas.  

Several kids on one of my local high school fencing teams are from Wuhan, China.  They went home for Christmas break, they returned.  There was no outbreak spread from them in the dorms where the foreign exchange students live, or in the entire school that they attend.  FWIW, they were back in the USA on Jan 3.  

At that point in time very few people in the USA were even aware of the Coronavirus, which at that time the WHO didn't have a specific name.  You will recall it changed from Coronavirus, to Novel Coronavirus as western scientists realized it was a totally new strain, and eventually to Covid-19 as they identified the DNA structure.


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## redsqwrl

sorry for lifting just part of the content. I fully understand the intent.
However.

"They need some sort of job protection? Or they need some sort of stimulus check every month? If the government would protect JUST THOSE PEOPLE who are in this situation then the rest of you could get on with your lives, the economy would not collapse, the businesses will not close down, the jobs will not be lost. And it would cost A LOT LESS $$$ and be a LOT EASIER for 80% of the human population"

Grabbed this little sound bite out of the great post above.

Here is fat and lazy ole wisconsin. 60 weeks of unemployment 7-8 years ago maybe 9, put a huge dent in the greying work force plight. trades workers stayed on unemployment well into summer. worked a couple weeks to freshen up the health insurance coffers then hit the unemployment office heading into hunting season.
I have contractors wiggling and getting nervous. the workers are self quarantining. threatening to sue if they are forced to contract this disease.
humans are smart. it is a me first climate. every 28 year old and younger has had health insurance and adequate unemployment compensation. Give this group a possibility of assistance ( insert fear of the what ever flu you want here) and they will exploit it. 
I respect fear.
I have feelings

but access to social content customized to personal preference by algorithms based on some bot somewhere is stifling a entire generation. it is a inner city culture where a handout is not a hand up.

give or create an excuse, put it in a life boat, and watch the entitled try to jump in that boat.
 I personally would listen to the band play as the ship sinks, then help the band members. Screw the captain, his dumb ass hit the ice.......


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## DAVENET

redsqwrl said:


> 32 years of work. not one sick day. I am starting to wonder if I am some sort of carrier and have been perpetually sick all my life.......



Jeez.  Brother of a different mother?

We used to get paid a bonus at the end of the year if sick days weren't used.  When that stopped I just use them up as "Dave's extended weekend days".  Knock on wood.

It must be Seagram's and IPA keeping stuff at bay. Don't let your body be  a hospitable location for bugs like that!


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## DAVENET

redsqwrl said:


> I have contractors wiggling and getting nervous. the workers are self quarantining. threatening to sue if they are forced to contract this disease.
> humans are smart. it is a me first climate. every 28 year old and younger has had health insurance and adequate unemployment compensation. Give this group a possibility of assistance ( insert fear of the what ever flu you want here) and they will exploit it.
> I respect fear.
> I have feelings
> 
> but access to social content customized to personal preference by algorithms based on some bot somewhere is stifling a entire generation. it is a inner city culture where a handout is not a hand up.
> 
> give or create an excuse, put it in a life boat, and watch the entitled try to jump in that boat.
> I personally would listen to the band play as the ship sinks, then help the band members. Screw the captain, his dumb ass hit the ice.......



The biggest issue is the additional $600 tacked onto the back of unemployment.  With lazy fecks making as much or more than the amount they were before this, there is ZERO incentive to go back to work. And if using the "But, I could be risking my life if I go back" card will keep the money flowing, they are going to play it. Just yesterday three senators were pushing a bill to extend it. (Sens. Michael Bennet and Jack Reed, along with Rep. Don Beyer, released their bill called the "Worker Relief and Security Act.")  Why get anything restarted when I can sit on my ass and get paid the same mentality.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive...employment-benefits-stimulus-coronavirus.html

Note the state right at the bottom of that list (who is breaking the doors to get back to work because it isn't as big of a benefit to them).


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## undy

undy said:


> As of yesterday, Texas reported it's highest daily death toll and immediately reopens for business.. I wish them well.
> 
> From the Houston Chronicle:  https://www.houstonchronicle.com/po...st-deaths-in-a-day-from-COVID-19-15238205.php
> 
> :th_lmao:
> 
> I'm sorry, I probably shouldn't be laughing at this.  But it sure seems like an imprudent decision to me.



So, it's now been 2 weeks since Texas reopened, and according to the Texas Tribune as of last Thursday, they just set a new record one-day increase in both new cases and deaths.  https://www.texastribune.org/2020/05/14/coronavirus-updates-texas/

Additionally, these charts from TXDSHS show consistent increases daily since reopening.  https://txdshs.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/ed483ecd702b4298ab01e8b9cafc8b83. This isn't data from some "asshole liberal" nor "snowflake", it's from the Texas government webpage.  Make of it what you will.


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## EastTexFrank

When Texas started to open up I don't think that anyone expected that there would NOT be an increase in cases.  The lockdown was put in place not to affect the total number of people catching the virus but to change the time frame over which they caught it.  It was initiated to prevent the medical facilities from being overwhelmed and thus increasing the death toll needlessly, not to stop people catching it and dying from it altogether.  Last time I checked, of the resources available in Texas to cope with the virus, only about 10% were being utilized.  That's a long way from being overwhelmed.  

As the circumstances have changed, so must the plan change.  It's totally unreasonable to expect people to be locked down for several more months with businesses closing right, left and center when you are only using 10% of your capability.  High risk people like me should still exercise caution as should nursing homes and other facilities dealing with the elderly and vulnerable,  but the rest of the State should probably get on with their lives knowing that they will catch it, be cured or get over it and live a long life.


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## redsqwrl

so the media is doing their best to continue to create fear and election year theatrics...
( got your attention)

again I do believe folks are succumbing to the flu. I have feelings and emotions about that as previously stated.

I do however find the letter of understanding and the guidelines OSHA put forth to be in alignment with reality.

https://www.osha.gov/SLTC/covid-19/covid-19-faq.html

the medical industry is guessing their way through this media mess. I really hope they get off it after november.


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## redsqwrl

*and to end on something positive*.

The vintage snow cat clowder is about the coolest group of people you will ever meet. when they put their mind to something they will press on regardless to achieve a goal.
*preface*:
so this granny factory in norther WI is a corporate deal with a home town crowd. the media got all up in their business about *the flu* and the residence have had to endure mandatory testing and Not being able to play cribbage because a govenor in a sanctuary city said so.....
( just trying to keep your attention) 
*Body:*
the community wanted to bring independance day to the residence because about everything is prohibited on their behalf. the staff may or may not have been concerned about folks turning out for a parade at a small granny factory. 
So Clowder folks were asked if they could drag a vintage groomer around the parking lot as part of a mini parade. here is a social media clip of the turn out.   

https://www.facebook.com/bayatnuroc/videos/2781574772099266

 Humid as the deep south, hot as the sahara. truck and trailer failures ( those are normal ) a ST4, model A spryte and a model 1450 super imp mobilized and represented. If you wonder about the integrity of the community. they showed up in spades and the event was massive.
*conclusion*:
Look at the faces. ( I should quit here as those images are enough)

Im particularly proud of the 19-21 seconds period of the video. If you have been to the clowder you have watched both a young man and an old machine mature in One year increments. the owner of the rig in the video led the charge and kept the shit show moving to fruition. snow cat people are weird and if the goal is to be the weirdest I am pretty sure we are winning.
:th_lmao:
so in his words press on regardless:         https://youtu.be/WDWiMbQsCF0


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