# Which Snowmobile would you buy... my criteria is...



## berg

I'd like to find a snowmobile that would meet more of a utility/dependable  need than flat out haulin ass like my sons have. 

I am approaching retirement and would like to find a sled for boondockin, Ice fishing and trail riding.
My criteria is ....
Used Machine most likely
4 stroke but not absolute necessary. 2 stroke would be lighter I assume.
Must have reverse
wider than normal track
be able to pull a sled with light equipment
handle some Utah powder 
electric start with pull backup
Comfortable.. adjustable back rest if possible.
Handle 2 people  and not looking for speed

I was thinking  Skidoo skandic or Alpine but I really don't want a double track. I'm not in the snowmobile circle so I don't really know whats out there. What do those Inuit Eskimos use... what is the ST4 equivalent in the Snowmobile world?


opinion appreciated.


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## kgracey

hey berg,

I'll answer portions of your question.

You mentioned "Utah powder" so that throws you into the mountain sled variety. Therefore, I'd recommend a 2" paddle and a track length of 144" minimum - this is short enough to be useful elsewhere but long enough to get a fairly medium sized person up a powder mountain. Engine size should be 700 minimum. 

I think you can get mountain sleds in 4-stroke now, too (Yamaha?). I have yet to see one in the Sierra Nevada mountains, though.


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## mtmogs

I've got a Yamaha VK540. The thing is a beast and pulled snowcat-like duty pulling a sledge before I got the snow trac. It's reliability is legendary and I've never had any sort of problem with it myself. I can tow a snow trac if on a trail. It's got a high/low transmission that gets a lot of torque out of the 640cc engine.

The downside is it's size if you're looking for something small and maneuverable. It's every bit of 10' long and has to weigh upward of 700 lbs. I would guess. It does have a 20" track and will blaze a trail and float pretty well...but not up a mountainside of champagne powder. I picked mine up almost new in '98 in Crested Butte after it was used at the winter X-Games. Since then Yamaha has made improvements to the suspension and of course has added a 4 stroke engine.


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## fogtender

I have had a Skidoo Nordik 50, Yamaha Viking and now the 2005 Arctic Cat Bearcat Widetrack. These all had the 20" wide tracks and very from 15 years ago to the 2005 Arctic Cat.

Having owned dozens of different standard models, I don't see the standard versions holding much of a candle to the Wide Track versions in ride and work related abilities. 

I would pick one that you have access to a local dealer in the event that warranty work is needed, but they are all pretty good running machines now and don't requirer the "Ride for an hour, work on it three hours" anymore. Also, some give a three year warranty with the machine, others a year and a charge for the three year version. My Arctic Cat came with a three year bumper to bumper warranty and only needed it once for a minor sensor replacement.

The Bearcat I have now has the four stroke engine, and the worst part of that is that the critters like moose don't hear you coming and are standing in the trail when you come around the curve. With the older two stokes, they were normally long gone.

The 20" wide tracks are a much better riding machine than the 15" wide ones. You sit up a bit higher, the machine is heavier, and the ride itself is much nicer.

The one issue I had with all the earlier wide tracks is that they were "Tippy" in deep snow, to the point I was going to dump my first one to the lowest bidder. 

Out of desperation, I installed wide skis skins on the front, that transformed the entire machine into a different animal. The wide skis kept the machine stable in deep snow. It appears that the wide track floated so well, the narrow skis couldn't support the machine and it "tipped over" in the fluff...

Most of the brands now have wide skis standard on them, and that isn't an issue any more, if not, they can be gotten in the aftermarket or as a condition of sale....

What ever brand you pick, I don't think you will make a very bad choice. By the way, I get about 20 MPG with the fourstroke over what would be a 8 to 10 on a two stroke version.  Mine had the 56 HP engine and I can pull a house, the newer ones are all in the 120 HP ranges, so they do get up and haul and can climb with the best of them...with two in the saddle.


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## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Interesting thread.  Every so often I scan Craigslist but like berg I don't know which models are the lemons and which ones are the workhorses.  I'd love to get a used reliable workhorse.  I don't expect to use it that much but some winters (like last one) it would sure be nice to have one around.


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## mtmogs

I'll second foggy's comment re. tippy in front in deep snow. It's takes some work to keep them upright when breaking a trail. My Viking has a nice comfy seat, but you don't get to use it when breaking in. It's takes twice the work with your wife on the back who hasn't fully grasped the concept of dynamic weight distribution.

I've found that the flotation of the wide track is so great that I've never buried the thing straight down like you might on a narrow paddle track. It's always sideways from tipping in the front end. Something as simple as running one ski into moose tracks can make you dig in sideways if you are not alert. As fog said, wide skins are the remedy. I haven't tried them myself.


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## bill w

2010 skidoo skandic,or tundra if the skandic would be too heavy for you.agree on the wide ski skins.i personnally would stay with the two stroke if possible to save weight....bill w   ps..i am kinda biased towards the skidoo...brp..products because i have the can-am 4 wheeler with tracks and it has never given me any issues,they are throwing money at research and development when other makes are kinda dragging their feet.....imo


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## berg

I appreciate the info...

so far  I see available  Arctic cat bear cat, Skidoo skandic
yamaha Viking and.....

I just missed a local 94' Polaris 600 wide track LX Trail

long track 156" - 20" wide trac
Hi- lo gears
low miles
Reverse
$900 ...


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## Blackfoot Tucker

Berg,

I won't recommend a sled, but I will make a few comments on your criteria.

I'm a Polaris guy. I've owned three Polaris 800's: a 2000 800 RMK with a 136" track (later upgraded to a 144"), A 2003 Vertical Escape with a 159" track and currently a 2008 800 Dragon with a 163" track.

The '03 and the '08 both have electronic reverse (as opposed to a geared reverse). I don't have a clue how it works, but it's great. You press a button on the handlebars and it sounds like the engine is shutting off, but it essentially reverses rotation and when you then squeeze the throttle you are in reverse. Press it again and you're going forward. It works great and unlike the geared reverse, adds virtually no weight.

All three sleds are two strokes. The '08 is fuel injected. It starts very easily, both in terms of how hard it is to physically pull the rope and how few pulls it takes.

I mention these things because weight is a huge penalty in deep Utah powder. Several items you listed such as electric start, four stroke engine and reverse (if geared) have significant weight penalties without offsetting benefits (IMHO).

I don't know where in Utah you live or sled. I deal exclusively with Tri City Performance (Polaris Dealer) in Centerville and recommend them highly. You might give them a call and talk with Mike Poulson. He's a good guy, has tons of experience and will give you great advice.


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## berg

Blackfoot Tucker said:


> Berg,
> 
> I don't know where in Utah you live or sled. .



I live at the mouth of provo canyon.. I don't do deep powder but I'd like to do the skyline drive out of manti or around strawberry and keep it sane .
I'm not into diggin out a 600lb machine but I'd like the wider track for floatation and peace of mind. 
Seems like a 20" track would be a must..? I think I'm going to stay 2 stroke for price and weight savings..

all good comments


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## Snowtrac Nome

the new skandic suv i think they call or expidition would be a good choice they come with both high and low and a wide track with a good deep paddle and nice suspension also the bear cat is a proven and reliable platform the neat thing about the skidoo you can now get it equiped with a winch wich if you get it stuck could come in handy.


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## utahwilson

After walking over half a mile in 3'-4' of snow this last weekend to get my snowcat to pull my snowmobile out of the snow I would stay with the snowcat.  My body aches and I don't want to do that again. I don't think reverse would have made much of a difference considering how bad it was stuck.


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## fogtender

dds said:


> the neat thing about the skidoo you can now get it equiped with a winch wich if you get it stuck could come in handy.


 
Aren't you going to need a few trees to tie off to there?


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## Snowtrac Nome

my opinion on the winch is that its money well spent for a machine that heavy if you live around trees  a buddy of mine here just bought one and i asked the same question yes the willows will surprise you how strong they are but when pulling a machine out of the snow you also have to lift something the willows cant do another machine spun side ways might make a good deadman though.


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## fogtender

dds said:


> my opinion on the winch is that its money well spent for a machine that heavy if you live around trees a buddy of mine here just bought one and i asked the same question yes the willows will surprise you how strong they are but when pulling a machine out of the snow you also have to lift something the willows cant do another machine spun side ways might make a good deadman though.


 
Just jerking your chain since I know you live right in the Nome National Forest...

The best thing that I have for the snowmachine is a "Rope a long", it is like a come a long, but it will work with a rope that can be as long as you need, with or without a snatch block. 

In your case, you would pretty much need another machine to tie off to in many cases, as would I in some of the areas we travel in.  The advantage of the WT Bear Cat, is that it is heavy and seems to travel very well.  I figured I would be stuck all the time with any of the WT's when I first bought my first one, if just didn't happen except once in a great while, and then you were stuck!  But more often than not, I was always breaking trails and have to go back and get the smaller machines unstuck that were following me in deep snow.


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## fogtender

berg said:


> I appreciate the info...
> 
> so far I see available Arctic cat bear cat, Skidoo skandic
> yamaha Viking and.....
> 
> I just missed a local 94' Polaris 600 wide track LX Trail
> 
> long track 156" - 20" wide trac
> Hi- lo gears
> low miles
> Reverse
> $900 ...


 
Any machine that costs $900.00 may be a good deal from the wallet, but one that is sixteen years old may require a lot of walking time from the woods.  You need to get something that old checked out really well by someone who knows snowmachines really well if you don't.  

If you are traveling with others, that isn't such a big deal when you can ride out with someone else.


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## fogtender

mtmogs said:


> As fog said, wide skins are the remedy. I haven't tried them myself.


 
You won't believe it is the same machine.  Was the same on all three brands I have owned, same tippy issues, solved with the wide ski skins, the wider the better.


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## Snowtrac Nome

utahwilson said:


> After walking over half a mile in 3'-4' of snow this last weekend to get my snowcat to pull my snowmobile out of the snow I would stay with the snowcat. My body aches and I don't want to do that again. I don't think reverse would have made much of a difference considering how bad it was stuck.


my thaughts too but if i ever get my snow trac stuck i expect there will be some bad language used . i havn't had any snow goes  quads or matttracks rigs wnting to be pulled out this winter and if we don't get any snow i might not even get called this year what snow we got all blew away.


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## mtntopper

I have a bunch of different sleds. Polaris RMK's with 144 tracks for the steep, deep and to go fast which are rated close to 150hp stock. Smaller lightweight Polaris Indy Lites and Yamaha Phazers for the grandchildren and visitors which are about 50hp. We have the Arctic Cat 660 touring 4 strokes with 15X136 for economical and great riding comfort commuter type sleds around our home that are used for everyday general transportation. We also have 2 Arctic Cat 660 Bearcat Utility sleds with 20X156 tracks used to open trail, heavy duty pulling and general work type duties where the smaller sleds just will not do the job. Our 4 stroke 660 non turbo models are about 60hp and have many miles on them as we bought them used from the national park service. When I say many miles I am telling you between 5.000 and 12,000+ miles on these sleds and they are still reliable and run great. The 4 stroke Suzuki 3 cyl engine will live forever with regular maintenance and give you about 20 to 25 miles per gallon of fuel under normal conditions. They are heavy but very stable. I have not had tipping problem with the Bearcats or the wide ski stance touring sleds. As Foggy said the 4 stokes are very quiet and a pleasure to ride everyday compared to many of the faster mountain sleds with 2 stroke engines.

I would highly recommend the 4 stroke engine, 20X156 track and the utility chassis for your use per your request and use. Pick a brand, a dealer you can work with and you will be very satisfied. The utility sleds are amazing workhorses and still fun to ride. Often you will not be stuck when all the smaller sleds are not moving but you will not climb the really steep hills that require speed and horsepower like the mountain sleds are capable of doing. 

In the pic below we were opening a trail that had not been used yet this winter season. The wife was on a Touring 660 following the Bearcat breaking the trail. The Bearcat is in front with the standard equipment showing up behind the rear seat, an aluminum scoop shovel. I carry it with me anytime I am out in unknown territory. If you do happen to stick the sled it takes very little time to scoop the snow away and take off again. I think in 3 years I have only stuck it one time where I used the shovel which was in a blizzard going up a steep hill and the other time I just backed it up to where I could turned it down hill out of the steep and deep snow.


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## NorthernRedneck

I've been considering an arctic cat 660 turbo touring also.  I like the fact that you can remove the 2-up seat for when riding solo.  I came close to buying one a couple years ago.


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## Snowtrac Nome

groomerguyNWO said:


> I've been considering an arctic cat 660 turbo touring also. I like the fact that you can remove the 2-up seat for when riding solo. I came close to buying one a couple years ago.


 hey groomer i thaught it was national pride for you all to ride skidoos heck yu all even call them skidoos instead of snomobiles. all 4 make goood sleds by all means buy one you can get support in your area my preference is around the a/c products even though they are a little heavyer the 550 fan cooled 2 cycle polaris is hard to beat for reliability and economy and the big skidoo looks like a tank also built like one but parts are  a little pricey in this county and no yahama dealers here but they always stand up real well on the iron dog. and most of the support crew on the iron dog and iditarod use bear cats to go behind the racers and clean up.


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## NorthernRedneck

no brand preference here...

I grew up driving a 1969 Yamaha sl338, 1973 Allouette, and a 1979 Yamaha gs340.  Later on, had a polaris ltr440 longtrack, polaris indy 500 sks, arctic cat jag 440, cougar 440, ski-doo mach 1, arctic cat ext 530, skidoo summit 600.  So nope...no brand preference here.  They all make pretty good machines.  They all have their problems.


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## Snowtrac Nome

groomerguyNWO said:


> no brand preference here...
> 
> I grew up driving a 1969 Yamaha sl338, 1973 Allouette, and a 1979 Yamaha gs340. Later on, had a polaris ltr440 longtrack, polaris indy 500 sks, arctic cat jag 440, cougar 440, ski-doo mach 1, arctic cat ext 530, skidoo summit 600. So nope...no brand preference here. They all make pretty good machines. They all have their problems.


 sl 338 i had one after my amf skidaddler


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## fogtender

These are some photos of my 2005 Arctic Cat Bear Cat WT with the 660 four stroke engine. This model only has about 57 HP or so, the Turbo model is/was 127 HP and even more on the newer models and will climb mountains with the best of them and then some because it has so much surface area on the track to blow snow out the tunnel. Face it, you can only get to the top then fall off the other side anyways....

The reason I bought it was to haul construction freight out to my cabin site which was 40 miles cross country one way. The sled I built was exactly as wide as the front skis on the Bear Cat, it broke trail and the sled would follow in the ski tracks. There wasn't anything on the market that would haul freight the way I needed to break trail and go long distances fast if needed.

Unit will haul two adults with no problems, even comes with overload springs, and the rear seat comes off to haul additional freight if needed which is what I did a lot of.

The wider ski skins on it are only about three inches wider than the skis in the photo, but they now make a complete ski that is about 11 inches wide and I will be looking for a set this next summer, we don't have enough snow this year to make a differance or worth the effort.

Videos of it hauling...

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCipSlstuJk"]YouTube- Pulling a load of lumber[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NH9ZBrYxszk&feature=related"]YouTube- Pulling the sled empty[/ame]


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