# Dementia and Alzheimers



## BigAl RIP

Is anyone else dealing with this ??? Holy Cow !!! I am ready to beat my head into a wall . 

I have a distance relative that has Dementia . I also have someone close to me that I believe is showing serious signs . 


I am at my wits end . Anybody know of a good support group that they can reconmend where I can get some straight answers. 

This is ripping a family apart .

 Edit : I'm willing to take this "offsite" to protect your privacy


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## American Woman

Hey Al.....We can support each other! Redneck and I are going thru it right now. I also took care of his Great Aunt for a couple of years with both of these. As far as a support group goes you may be able to find out thru your local hospital about something in your area.  You can pm me if you are more comfortable about it in private. But I think if we keep it out here there may be others going thru it too. It may help as other's read what we are going thru. We can help them or they can help us.


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## NorthernRedneck

Whoa!  The timing on this thread is eary!  I was just considering posting something along these lines earlier today while I was at work.  

I also have expereince with dimensia. 

This is a very touchy subject with my family.  First, let me start off by saying that everyone should educate themselves on what to look for(i.e. signs and symptoms of dimensia)  Be very aware of sudden mood changes followed by anger and denial.  Without getting specifics online, my Father in law began to show signs of it a few weeks before retiring at the age of 65.  The doctors were a little slow to diagnose him as having dimensia attributing his behaviours to his high blood pressure and diabetes. 

The main thing I can recomend  for dealing with someone with dimensia is that the individual should never be left alone.  Remember, the person will be having moments when he/she is not making any sense and may become arguementative and possibly aggressive then forget what happened only a few minutes later.  

Al......I know dimensia is very hard to deal with.  Feel free to PM me anytime to discuss further.  It can destroy a family if you don't know what to look for.


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## Erik

my uncle had alzheimer's - and it got so bad before the end we almost had a double funeral.  My aunt was killing herself trying to take care of him, even after she had to put him in a care facility for his own safety.


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## California

Al, Dad had to manage his second wife through various stages of dementia and Alzheimers, like groomerguy described, and Dad found the support group arranged by Kaiser to be priceless. 

Kaiser probably has an outpost up there. Even if you don't belong, the cost to get in a counseling group may be reasonable. Or worth whatever it costs.

Another resource would be through the county mental health department. They likely have a specialist who can refer you to local resources.

Not relevant to you, but maybe to someone reading this: Dad after his wife's death moved on to a Kaiser-Plan sponsored widows and widowers counseling group, then he also started attending the elder group in a church through people he met in that group. I think he would have become a hermit out at the ranch if he hadn't found these.

All these were a tremendous help in understanding the crises he found himself in. (And for accepting that at 88, it was time to give up his drivers license etc. He saw and spoke with others making those decisions.)

You aren't in this alone. There are other families dealing with the same thing. You just have to find them.


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## EastTexFrank

My wife's bachelor uncle, who we were very close to, has dementia and Alzheimer's. He was a wonderful, generous man to his family and community. We knew that was something wrong about a year before he realized it himself. The rest of the family were in denial because their father/grandfather had the same thing. When he finally realized that there something wrong with him he did a really smart thing. He came out to the house and had us sign papers to give us his power of attorney. When we started to organise his business affairs it amazed us that he had practically given everything he had away. The number of people and organizations that had taken advantage of that poor man's generosity and illness was despicable. Anyway, that was about 5 years ago. We kept him at home with care and supervision as long as we could but eventually had to have him committed to an Alzheimer's unit in a local nursing home. He's been there for 3 years now. My wife who looks after all his financial and other affairs still goes to see him 3 times a week and sits and talks to him although there is no sign or understanding or recognition. She's a lot stronger than I am. I must admit that I loved that old man but I haven't been to see him in over 2 years. It just used to tear me up and upset me too much. It's a strange, strange disease that affects the people surrounding the person a lot more than it seems to affect the person themselves. 

There are a lot of support groups for the families of Alzheimer's patients. You need to do some research and find one close. I strongly advise getting in touch with one of them because it will educate you to the symptoms of the disease, how it progresses and what steps can be taken to possibly slow down it's progression. 

Best of luck. It will be a trying time for your whole family. I'm not a particularly religious person but my thoughts and prayers are with you.

PM if you want to.  I can offer some very practical advice.


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## BigAl RIP

Well its my Dads wife(age 88) that has dementia . I have seen some flares of violence that worry me . Its just a matter of time before she starts hitting people . I tried to talk with her kids ,which are grown adults ,but they do not give a crap about her .Her Son and Daughter want her out of their lives and they want the inheritence money ASAP . There's a lot of love in that F#Cked UP family !!!! The times Dad has been in the hospital it is up to me to insure her safety . 
I had home health nurses in place to help Dad and her . Dad ran them off .Dad's (age 84) condition is he is physically unable to do anything for himself without help . His wife is 4 years older but in good Phyiscal condition but she is at the middle level of Dementia now . Dad's mind has been sharp ,but I have noticed a serious change since i returned from Panama in May. 

He has every excuse you can imagine to defend his reasons for staying at the house . Dad should not be living at home . His own Doctors have tried to talk with him as has every member of our family to move to a retirement home or a rest home . I tried to get him to live with me . He flat out refuses . The doctor told me 2 days ago that Dad is his most frail patient . His Kidneys are down to 15% use because Dad self medicated himself and ruined them. I took his drivers license away after he could not lift his foot to the brake and somehow he managed to pass a retest and get it back !!!

Since I am legally in charge of the family affairs and speak for family , I finally issued a warning that Dad get nurses or I walk out . Dad agreed on Friday but now tells me not to push it . Something about the cost of home nursing . Money is not an issue . He can afford the best 24/7 . 

I am trying to please about half a dozen people now . A doctor , a Dad and his wife, a Bother ,a Sister and myself . 

I made a promise to my Mother on her Death Bed that I would take care of everything and the family . 

I feel like I am failing miserably . I see signs of Dementia starting in Dad now . 

Me and Dad are close .... real close .

I do not want to walk out but I cannot and will not watch as he kills himself by being stubborn . It is taking a serious toll on me now . I am on anti depressant meds ! I have always been about the meanest toughest SOB in the world. I have always took names and kicked Ass in life and business !!! and now I am reduced to this . 

I'm sitting in California , A state that I detest , twidling my thumbs , trying to please my father and a bunch of other people and I feel like I can't get a damn thing right .


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## pirate_girl

Al, I think your Dad needs to go to an assisted living center, and his wife needs to be in a facility for those who need round the clock care (nursing home)
You need to get together with all those involved and tell them they BOTH need to be in the same place.
I work in a HUGE facility that houses an AL unit, nursing home and a rehab center.
Look into it please.
Sounds to me like this is the only answer.
None of you need this kind of stress when there are simple solutions out there.
Hugs and good luck.


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## BigAl RIP

pirate_girl said:


> Al, I think your Dad needs to go to an assisted living center, and his wife needs to be in a facility for those who need round the clock care (nursing home)
> You need to get together with all those involved and tell them they BOTH need to be in the same place.
> I work in a HUGE facility that houses an AL unit, nursing home and a rehab center.
> Look into it please.
> Sounds to me like this is the only answer.
> None of you need this kind of stress when there are simple solutions out there.
> Hugs and good luck.


 
 Thanks PG ,
 It looks like I would  have to take this to court to force Dad to do that . I will not win and am not willing to do that . The doctors have told me that no judge will side with him or the family as long as my fathers mind is still sharp , even though I am seeing a big change in Dad . If I got him nurses he would just run them off in a few months as he did before .
 I am going to contact the hospital tomorrow and see what is avalible for support or direction .
 My one chance is my father knows that his money means nothing to me . I have my own . I am willing to sign off the estate and walk out for good if things don't change and he now knows this  . His health is all I care about .


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## urednecku

Is it his house he doesn't want to leave, or his Independence? I believe there are places that just "help you when you need it." The residents have their own 'apartment', but it is in a facility with help to make sure things are taken care of, like meds on time, food, etc.


Cory & myself moved a trailer next to my Dads house about 9 years ago, partly to get out of town, part to help Dad take care of his 80 acres. About 3 years later, they (both Mom and Dad) noticed things were not right, Mom started having trouble remembering things. The doctor put her on aricept, which is about the only alzhimers med at the time, & Dad would go places with her, (she drove mostly since Dad had heart trouble and 'mini strokes'), even if he didn't feel good, to make sure she did not get lost. She stopped driving when Dad went to the hospital with a heart attack Thanksgiving morning 2004 at about 1:00AM. The doctors wanted to do a quad by-pass, & I can still hear Daddy Tell them "what-ever it takes to fix it." They operated about the first of Dec., and Dad passed away Dec. 9. He had a blood clot in his small intestine, undetected, so gangrene set in and it still was not detected until it was too late.
 Mom kept living in the house they had shared for almost 60 years. Cory was cooking for her, I was helping her with her meds, putting them in a weekly pill box with it written down when to take them. I think the lonely-ness of that big house, and missing her mate of 60years, she basically gave up. She would not take her meds, or was taking twice, who knows. She would get mad at me trying to help her, and just not listen or try to help. When she came down with pneumonia, the only way the doctor would release her from the hospital was to go to assisted living. The doc had her meds straitened out, including physic, so she was ok with it for a while. 
If you spend some time with her, you can tell a lot of the time she still knows what is going on, but she has to go slow, and think things out. When she talks, you can tell what she says is not what she is thinking. Or she can not get her mouth to say what she wants to say. 
Mom has been begging for months now to go home. And that tears my heart out. But there is no way she could live by herself, she is 81years old last Nov., and is sometimes un-stable on her feet. 
I have an older sister, none of the family care for husband, she has 'stolen' from family before, so Mom will not go there, and we will not let him live here, he is also a thief. My older brother is on dylansis, his kidneys have completly shut down, so he can't take care of her. 2 younger sisters, they both have their own problems or agenda. My brother, myself, and 1 younger sis drive within 1/3mile of the ALF where Mom lives every time we go to work / town and again coming home. My other 2 sisters live about 5 miles away. Cory and myself are the only ones that go by to even say "hello" on a regular basis. 
I promised my Dad, about 3 hard breaths before his last, I would take care of Mom the best I could. My Dad ment more to me than anything except for my wife and 4 kids, and I will do my damndest to keep that promise.
Al, I know how this is tearing you up, and do not know what to say. There is nothing I, or anyone, can say that will take the hurt away. I know from experience. But do know that you are not the only one going thru this kind of hurt. 
If you want to talk, feel free to PM me, we'll exchange # & when to call.


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## Galvatron

First of all can i say my heart goes out to all of you going through this difficult time.
Now i have never directly had to deal with this but a close friend/neighbour/work buddy of mine his mother-in-law had dementia/Alzheimer's...her husband was wow what a man....he refused outside help and devoted his life to her right until the end.

Now this is where the problem lies that i want to mention...with all the care he gave and refusing outside help he passed away 6 months before her due the the strain it all put on his own health.

The mental and physical drain on the primary carer is beyond belief....they must be looked after just as well as the person with dementia....they need full support from all the family and health services they cannot be left to it even if they say they are fine and that they are coping.....it's bad enough watching one loved one slip away without the additional loss of another.

Ron my neighbours Father-in-law never once complained and refused help....he lapsed on his own health check ups and just stuck with his promise that he loved her and was his duty to his wife to look after her no matter what......he become ill very sudden and was taken to hospital and diagnosed with cancer and died within a month and never left the hospital in that time...his beloved wife went straight to a care home where she was lost without him and died 6 months later from natural causes....we say even though her dementia was very bad she knew Ron was gone and gave up.

I hope this helps in some way and you all take care of yourselves as well as your loved ones.

Galv.


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## BigAl RIP

Thanks ,all of you .... 
 Last night it all just kind of came to a head I guess . I had acquired Dad and his wife a real nice upscale 2 bedroom /2 bath apartment in a large retirement care facility. They even had their own chef who would cook to order . Everything a person could want was provided . One week before Dad was to move in he backed out . I am not sure if it his independance or love of the old house that keeps him there . 
   I already controll and manage all my fathers affairs and business Dealings so protecting the assets is not the issue . 
I do not give a crap about the money, have never taken a dime nor will I . I have my own .
  Today I am headed out to do battle again yet today and hope that Pop will understand . If push finally comes to shove , dad will lose ...and so will I..


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## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

BigAl said:


> If push finally comes to shove , dad will lose ...and so will I..


 
Al, you're not losing if the "right thing" is getting done.  I always look at these old age as a reversal process.  Remember, they had to deal with you when you were a baby and toddler - now it's your turn.

No matter how angry your dad may get, if the right thing is done he will most likely get over it.


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## American Woman

Thanks Galv.....I was having trouble putting things into words and you helped me get my thoughts organized. I have been the caregiver for a loved one 4 times now.First off Momma.....She died 10 years ago from lung disease. Her last six weeks in the hospital were hell on earth for her, and I was froze to her side the whole time. She was afraid to be alone and would call my name all hours of the day and night for help. What you said about the promise up there really hit my heart. I _promised_ her I wouldn't leave. We (her and I) fought for her to stay alive until she gave up and I forced to give up. I had painful memories in my head for a couple of years after that. I was in the hospital 8 times in one year after that because of_ heart_ problems. I jumped into taking care of Redneck's Great Aunt not long after that. She had Dementia/Alzheimer's that set after she fell and broke a hip. At first it like babysitting. Then I found myself making major medical decisions again. I was changing diapers, and fussing with her trying to get her do anything. After two years she was put in a nursing home and I had trouble letting her go. For the first year I was there everyday checking on her, and sitting with her, because although she didn't know who I was I still brought comfort to her and was the only one that was able to get her to eat or take her meds without a fight. Little by little I was able to leave her to others.
Five years later my was struggling trying to take care of this woman he married. He made her a _promise_. He refused any help or medical attention for himself. When he was too bad himself he finaly went to the doctor with my promise to make sure she was taken care of and not leave his side. I did both between AG, Redneck, and I. He was diagnosed with Cancer in the last stages. Because of my_ promise_ I did the same thing with Daddy I did with Momma. The sicker he got the more frozen I became. Redneck, family, and hospital staff tried to get me to leave and couldn't because of my _promise_ to Daddy. I put myself thru hell on earth with him. The guilt, and the  _promise_ I had from Momma dieing came back, and I was hurting for both of them. I say guilt because she and I *fought* for her life in that hospital room. When she died there was guilt for me because the "battle" was over and she died. Fast forward ten years and I find myself going thru the same promise, and guilt with Daddy. Daddy died this past Thanksgiving and I went back to work the next day like nothing had happened. "Talk about shell shock" I went from by Daddy's side dieing of Cancer in a room for three weeks to the biggest shopping day of the year in a Mall. I was numb walking to my job thru the mall filled with Christmas shoppers. I threw myself into Redneck's Momma after that. We are fulling his promise to his Daddy  and now, and his guilt .


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## BigAl RIP

PBinWA said:


> Remember, they had to deal with you when you were a baby and toddler - now it's your turn.


 
I been there for 13 years now in that position . I don't mind handling Pops affairs , its the "game playing", on his part that is getting very old . 

Weather I want to or not , today is the day it ends .


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## urednecku

I honestly think Mom has played a lot of games, too. A lot of the time we would notice her asking the same question several times, a few minutes apart, in a different way, like she was trying to catch us in a lie. Then at times, it really seams like she can NOT remember as long as it takes to tell her something. Then later in the day or the next day, she will say something to reference the conversation, where you know she remembers.


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## rback33

Best of luck Al. This is terrible I know. My grandmother (67 + or -) is right here in town in the nursing home and I have not seen her in close to 6 months I would guess. I am a bit too much like ETF I guess. My grandfather is now showing signs himself after caring for grandma for ages. He even had a crazy outburst in a local restaurant about how they have a cure but won't release it. My thoughts and prayers are with you. It's nothing I would ever wish on anyone to deal with such struggles.


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## urednecku

rback33 said:


> Best of luck Al. This is terrible I know. My grandmother (67 + or -) is right here in town in the nursing home and I have not seen her in close to 6 months I would guess. I am a bit too much like ETF I guess. My grandfather is now showing signs himself after caring for grandma for ages. He even had a crazy outburst in a local restaurant about how they have a cure but won't release it. My thoughts and prayers are with you. It's nothing I would ever wish on anyone to deal with such struggles.



I think most of us believe there are more they _can_ do, but between the government and the money-greedy drug companies, they won't .
We just do the best we can with what we have. 
Al, good luck. Remember, we're here for ya. If you would rather go private, we will do that, too. ANY thing we can do to help.


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## k-dog

There was an older gentleman that went to our church he was 87 years old and fit.  He could have probably out ran me if he wanted to.  He took care of his house inside and out which included mowing 5 acres.  His wife started to go downhill with alzheimers and he tried to take care of her.  He did all he could and eventually had to put her in a nursing home and visited her everyday.  It wasn't long after that, he died.  I think the wear and tear from trying to do too much is what killed him.  He had two boys who I'd never seen until the funeral and then when his wife died they showed up again and sold the house and all their possessions.  Mr. Jess was one of a kind.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is don't try to do too much and jeopardize your own health as will do no one any good.
I hope it all works out Al, take care and God Bless.


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## Ice Queen

I am thinking of you and my heart goes out to you.  I have never had to deal with dementia or Alzheimers, but my late partner developed brain tumors as secondaries after lung cancer and that was pretty awful.  I saw him change from a lovely person who drove abnormal loads and anything on wheels to a guy who could not go round a roundabout in a car at the beginning.  At the end I used to take the electric kettle to bed with me, having turned the gas off outside the house and putting a padlock and chain around the solid fuel stove to prevent him opening it, as I was so frightened of him hurting himself.  I was unable to watch him twenty four hours a day, but I was lucky in that I had a friend staying in my caravan on the back lawn (he had been kicked out by his wife at Christmas) and he spotted a light come on in the house at about four in the morning and came in to see what was happening and found my partner in his wheel chair ( he could not walk by then) about to go out the front door.  When asked where he was going, he replied, "to the shop to get some milk"  I cannot imagine if Alan had not caught him and persuaded him not to go, where he would have gone and what would have happened to him.  With the best will in the world, it is impossible to watch someone twenty four hours a day, seven days a week.


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## dzalphakilo

BigAl said:


> Since I am legally in charge of the family affairs and speak for family , I finally issued a warning that Dad get nurses or I walk out . Dad agreed on Friday but now tells me not to push it . Something about the cost of home nursing . Money is not an issue . He can afford the best 24/7 .
> 
> I am trying to please about half a dozen people now . A doctor , a Dad and his wife, a Bother ,a Sister and myself .
> 
> I made a promise to my Mother on her Death Bed that I would take care of everything and the family .
> 
> I feel like I am failing miserably . I see signs of Dementia starting in Dad now .
> 
> Me and Dad are close .... real close .
> 
> I do not want to walk out but I cannot and will not watch as he kills himself by being stubborn . It is taking a serious toll on me now . I am on anti depressant meds ! I have always been about the meanest toughest SOB in the world. I have always took names and kicked Ass in life and business !!! and now I am reduced to this .
> 
> I'm sitting in California , A state that I detest , twidling my thumbs , trying to please my father and a bunch of other people and I feel like I can't get a damn thing right .


 
Al, from what I've read of your posts, I have no doubt you will make the right decisions.

Being in charge of family matters is a no win situation, with the more family involved the worse it will usually be (you can't please everyone).

My aunt died three years ago.  She was poor, had really nothing, and left me in charge of putting her affairs in order and making sure everything was taken care of.  I happen to live 500 miles away while the rest of the family lived within 30 miles of her.  It was not fun, but I got the things that needed to be done, and not everyone was happy (some are still probably pissed at me).  Hell, I threw two cousins out of my aunts apartment because they were bickering on who would get what, and I told them if they wanted to remember my aunt that way, to get the **** out and never come back.  

You're never going to please everyone.

Knowing what I've read from you, you WILL NOT fail.

People will get mad at you because you don't "cave" into what they want.

Do what you honestly think is right, and everything will work itself out.

I have no doubt that you're the man your father is.


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## Hutchman

Al, I'm not going to be able to be of much help to you, other than to say my thoughts and prayers go out to you and your family. My father in law has Alzheimer's. This is a big bull of an 87 year old man who, up until two years ago, had a big garden, lived to fish and went most days, and could still go to a party and dance all night when the youngsters had long since worn out. Now, he doesn't even remember how to fish, or how to start a tiller or mower. It's unpleasant for me but it's really hard on my wife. We live over 300 miles away from them, and Jill is going to start taking unpaid leave to go up and help her Mom out.
My best wishes to you.   Hutch


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## American Woman

Hey Al.....How'ed it go with your Dad today?


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## BigAl RIP

American Woman said:


> Hey Al.....How'ed it go with your Dad today?


 

Lol . Lady have you got some timing !!!! 

Its not good . Tomorrow I will try to hire nurses . Dad is putting up a hella fight .


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## American Woman

BigAl said:


> Lol . Lady have you got some timing !!!!
> 
> Its not good . Tomorrow I will try to hire nurses . Dad is putting up a hella fight .


I hate to hear that Al.....I understand how it happened though 
If that helps your feelings any.
 Daddy kept giving in and changing his mind until we were crazy. He was so stubborn and independent. To make matters worse he has had a temper all of my life, and I have always had a fearful respect for it. As he got older it got worse. I understand how hard it is to stay the child at times like this. You know your right, but at the same time you can't "disrespect" and not do as your told. I couldn't do it...but I'm all about telling Redneck how to do it. LOL 
It's hard for him not to let her keep the "Mother role" I have to remind him all the time that she's not up to that.....and it hurts him all over again.
I am so glad that you started this thread Al. It has caused me to look at what we are doing to each other and our family. Redneck and I are the average age of kids taking care of their parents like this, but we have the extra added stress of two small boys left to raise. They are 11 and 5 with handicaps of their own. This has made me see that we have to back off for their sakes.


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## California

Al, hang in there. 

We went through similar with my wife's parents. They were more muddled and less forceful than you are describing, but we soon learned there is a critical need to assign more than one competent person per elder to stay ahead of the chaos they continually made. 

And I'm in the middle of similar with Mom now. She has burned out half the decent middle aged women of Fiji so far, they just can't take it. I got their help in there long ago when I couldn't deal with Mom alone. And Dad - well he was like your Dad. (divorced, so these were two different chaotic households for me to manage. Simultaneous with the inlaws needs.)

I wish I could think of a kinder way to put these but I'll share with you my conclusions:

* _You can't let an incompetent person lead you around by the nose. If they were competent they wouldn't act like that_. Now, finally, it's up to the child to take responsibility to keep the parents safe and comfortable and you have to make decisions that they, in their present state of mind, don't agree with. You are still doing the right thing even if they don't agree. I found I was thanked, but only after the dust settled and I was near burnout.

*_The caregiver always goes first_. We saw this with FIL, and everybody related to elder care told us to get help before we became casualties. You sound like you are facing some stress right now. You have to hire front-line helpers to take the heat so you can get your wits together. Really, you don't have an obligation to hold the parent's hand 24/7 for several years. It would be inhuman to ask that of anyone and your parents wouldn't ask that, if they were still the caring people they once were. Find the best, most caring, hired help you can obtain. Then go visit as a guest, rather than as the on-call, never-thanked person who is expected to come over several times a day to solve every little problem. Save your sanity.

You mentioned relinquishing an interest in the estate. Forget it. People do theatrical things under stress, but you know you would be back shortly taking full responsibility but using your own resources instead of theirs. The gesture would be meaningless to your Dad, he knows you are a good person and won't abandon him. After a couple of days he would forget the theatrics and things would be right back where they were. Except you just made a significant gift to the future heirs who aren't helping you in this time of crisis. Why should you do that? They will never thank you, they already think you are wealthy so you should be spreading it around. They, like Dad, wouldn't reciprocate in any way for what you just gave them. Forget it.

Al, we're all worried about you. AW was just the only one who knew how to ask tactfully.

I hope this gets easier on you.


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## Galvatron

Galvatron said:


> First of all can i say my heart goes out to all of you going through this difficult time.
> Now i have never directly had to deal with this but a close friend/neighbour/work buddy of mine his mother-in-law had dementia/Alzheimer's...her husband was wow what a man....he refused outside help and devoted his life to her right until the end.
> 
> Now this is where the problem lies that i want to mention...with all the care he gave and refusing outside help he passed away 6 months before her due the the strain it all put on his own health.
> 
> The mental and physical drain on the primary carer is beyond belief....they must be looked after just as well as the person with dementia....they need full support from all the family and health services they cannot be left to it even if they say they are fine and that they are coping.....it's bad enough watching one loved one slip away without the additional loss of another.
> 
> Ron my neighbours Father-in-law never once complained and refused help....he lapsed on his own health check ups and just stuck with his promise that he loved her and was his duty to his wife to look after her no matter what......he become ill very sudden and was taken to hospital and diagnosed with cancer and died within a month and never left the hospital in that time...his beloved wife went straight to a care home where she was lost without him and died 6 months later from natural causes....we say even though her dementia was very bad she knew Ron was gone and gave up.
> 
> I hope this helps in some way and you all take care of yourselves as well as your loved ones.
> 
> Galv.




I would just like to add one final comment that i left out...

When you sit down and have to make the decisions for your loved ones try and think back to when they were not ill and what would they have wanted and would they have wanted you becoming stressed and ill in the process....at least then no matter how much they kick and scream and how painful it looks you can have peace of mind knowing its the illness making all the noise not the person you love.

Galv.


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## urednecku

Galvatron said:


> I would just like to add one final comment that i left out...
> 
> When you sit down and have to make the decisions for your loved ones try and think back to when they were not ill and what would they have wanted and would they have wanted you becoming stressed and ill in the process....at least then no matter how much they kick and scream and how painful it looks you can have peace of mind knowing its the illness making all the noise not the person you love.
> 
> Galv.


Real good point, Galv. That reminds me of two more that I left out, you said them.  
> Cory is always reminding me it's not Mom doing the things making me crazy, but the illness.

>About 10 years ago, when we started dealing with her Aunt, Mom started telling us when she gets to the point she is some-what difficult  to deal with, place her in a suitable facility. She did not want to be the burden on her children that she saw could happen. She has said this many, many times, when she KNEW was in her 'right' mind, and knew what she was saying.

The problem is, she is STILL our loved MOM, and it's hard to turn her care over to other people.
But like Cory also said, we have to take care of each other, and our own 2 children.  As bad as Mom wants to come home, and as bad as I would like to bring her home, her and Dad would both rather us put our own family before them.
And DAMN, THIS $H!T IS FRUSTRATING. But we have to take care of ourself, or we become another part of the problem, & no help to any-body.


----------



## American Woman

urednecku said:


> And DAMN, THIS !T IS FRUSTRATING.


I love you.....


----------



## Galvatron

American Woman said:


> I love you.....



That's all that matters here


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## RedRocker

OK Al, you can hate Dubya, you've got enough on your plate and don't need to argue with me about poly ticks. On a serious note, just do what you know is right and don't worry about what others think. You won't be any good to anybody without your sanity.


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## BigAl RIP

RedRocker said:


> OK Al, you can hate Dubya, you've got enough on your plate and don't need to argue with me about poly ticks. On a serious note, just do what you know is right and don't worry about what others think. You won't be any good to anybody without your sanity.


 
 Thanks Rocker ..... Hell,   arguing with you and the other guys helps keeps my pee brain mind busy . 
   Just always know that I respect your opinion , we may not always agree but you have my respect .

 On another note , Still trying to get nursing for Pop and his wife . Maybe tomorrow .


----------



## RedRocker

Yes sir, these little debates keep me on my toes for sure. Good luck with your Dad, you guys will be in my prayers.


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## BigAl RIP

Well Crap ! If it ain't one thing,it's another . I finally got a full time housekeeper all lined up for Dad . Yippee

Then I "Think" I have the new nurse all lined up .She seems nice and really excited about working with Dad . I run a background check on her and it comes back bad .Very Bad . 
I'd be better hiring someone out of prison . 

So now i'm back to "square one" on the nurses again . 
Monday I'll start checking resumes again .


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## urednecku

Don't know of much more to say except just keep on keeping on. And keep us informed. We're still here for ya.


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## BigAl RIP

urednecku said:


> Don't know of much more to say except just keep on keeping on. And keep us informed. We're still here for ya.


 
   I "think" I am getting closer to finding a nurse . 

  Monday we were with the primary MD and he again told Dad it was time to move from his residence into a 24/7 assisted care facility . That went over like a fart in Church ...... 

   His memory seems to be failing more each month .His patience level is pretty much non existing . He gets irriated very quickly .  I see more changes ,along the same lines ,in his wife also . I think its just a matter of time before I gotta go out there and  break up a fist fight !!!! Tempers are short !!! 
*    I removed all the firearms some time ago* . I'm serious on the last sentence . 

    Yesterday we went to the Kidney Specialist Doctor and Pop is about at 15% use of his  kidneys . He told the doctor everything he wanted to hear , not what was true ,but what he wanted the doctor to believe . I just sat there and kept my mouth shut . I have a big mouth too !!  
    Anyway I finally got to bring the doctor up to speed in private and he let me know they were already aware that Dad likes to glass over stuff . 

   "Proper Nursing" has been more difficult to locate for us because of Dad's deteriorating condition and his house cannot be furnished and equipped to the level of care he needs . Anybody got a small hospital for sale .... cheap !  

   I believe that I may have it resolved tomorrow . I have been looking for a Retired Pro Football 275 pound  "defensive center linebacker" who can also dish it out as well as he recieves it and knows or has a little medical background to boot . The medical part is optional . I told him to bring his  old playing uniform including the pads . 

  I got a new Handiman on line this week and the _*hardest *_thing for me to do today was to tell Dad to call the new handiman when he called earlier about wanting me out there ASAP to fix a sprinkler . I could tell by Dad's voice that he was not happy with my answer . Low and behold !!! He likes the guy and is happier than hell with him !!! I almost fainted . 

   I'm trying to get headed back to Idaho this next week . My brother and Sister should be able to hold down the fort if I can line up the nurses .


----------



## American Woman

Wow! I hope and pray it all goes like you planned it Al .....I think you should ask the handyman if he wants to switch careers! Or keep it and live there...


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## BigAl RIP

Well . The new nurse I just hired called and quit ..... I took her out to dads and we went over her duties on Saturday . She called last night .She decided he is too much to handle and should be in a care falicity . 

  This may be taken out of my hands very soon . I was talking to a good friend who is invovled with Family Protection Services here in the county . 

   She told me that if Protection Services gets a call to look into my Dad being home without nursing they will go to the courts and have him declared a danger to himself .... and moved to a supervised care facility . Thats going to go over like a fart in church !!!!

   I been telling the doctor this for 2 years now !!!!! Hell ,the whole family has been saying this !!!! 

   I'm out there damn near every day trying to get Dad to reason with me !I even asked him on Sunday if he was trying to kill himself by his own actions ........


----------



## RedRocker

Good luck Al, what an ordeal.


----------



## California

BigAl said:


> Well . The new nurse I just hired called and quit ....She decided he is too much to handle and should be in a care facility .
> 
> This may be taken out of my hands very soon . I was talking to a good friend who is involved with Family Protection Services here in the county .
> 
> She told me that if Protection Services gets a call to look into my Dad being home without nursing they will go to the courts and have him declared a danger to himself .... and moved to a supervised care facility.
> 
> I been telling the doctor this for 2 years now !!!!! Hell ,the whole family has been saying this !!!!
> 
> I'm out there damn near every day trying to get Dad to reason with me!


Al, hang in there! BTDT!  At this point these County services are your ally, don't hide from them. They see this scenario all the time and they can talk stern to him and maybe make it stick, while you will forever be 'Little Al', continually expected to defer to Dad's increasingly poor judgment. The county elder unit people are overworked and don't really want to go to court, what they want is to force the Best Thing then get on to the next case. Let them do the dirty work!

In my case a call from Family Services finally persuaded Mom that the idiots she had hired over my protest, were not satisfactory. 

She used to do these same elder care reviews herself after she retired as a professor of social work (her specialty was arranging professional-grade County adoption services, as caseworker then later teaching the subject as State College professor)  but it took Family Services, not me, to convince her that her own elder care planning skills were no longer getting the job done. 

When the caregivers she had hired moved out, they filled the 90 gallon recycle bin with empty beer bottles they had hidden everywhere and we still had mountains of empty bottles roll out of the closet when we went to see what they left. One of them got pregnant during that period. We hope it was during the weekend she went up to Seattle! And the grocery costs dropped by half when the other lady was no longer responsible for shopping.

The face to face service those two provided was satisfactory, they really cared about her, that's why Mom didn't want to replace them with strangers. But when we finally got someone in there who was competent as well as caring, I could finally sit back and let the new lady run the show. (She also cost 50% more than the two clowns combined. Mom had been under the pretense that she just needed a couple of college girls to cook for her, when her real needs had become much more serious).

My point is that it took Family Services talking to Mom, in her own Social Worker language, before she acknowledged her planning wasn't sufficient. You should try this too. 

Let Family Services be the bad guy and tell Dad there's no appeal process from whatever they dictate. It Must Be Done!


----------



## BigAl RIP

California said:


> Al, hang in there! BTDT! At this point these County services are your ally, don't hide from them. They see this scenario all the time and they can talk stern to him and maybe make it stick, while you will forever be 'Little Al', continually expected to defer to Dad's increasingly poor judgment. The county elder unit people are overworked and don't really want to go to court, what they want is to force the Best Thing then get on to the next case. Let them do the dirty work!
> 
> In my case a call from Family Services finally persuaded Mom that the idiots she had hired over my protest, were not satisfactory.
> 
> She used to do these same elder care reviews herself after she retired as a professor of social work (her specialty was arranging professional-grade County adoption services, as caseworker then later teaching the subject as State College professor) but it took Family Services, not me, to convince her that her own elder care planning skills were no longer getting the job done.
> 
> When the caregivers she had hired moved out, they filled the 90 gallon recycle bin with empty beer bottles they had hidden everywhere and we still had mountains of empty bottles roll out of the closet when we went to see what they left. One of them got pregnant during that period. We hope it was during the weekend she went up to Seattle! And the grocery costs dropped by half when the other lady was no longer responsible for shopping.
> 
> The face to face service those two provided was satisfactory, they really cared about her, that's why Mom didn't want to replace them with strangers. But when we finally got someone in there who was competent as well as caring, I could finally sit back and let the new lady run the show. (She also cost 50% more than the two clowns combined. Mom had been under the pretense that she just needed a couple of college girls to cook for her, when her real needs had become much more serious).
> 
> My point is that it took Family Services talking to Mom, in her own Social Worker language, before she acknowledged her planning wasn't sufficient. You should try this too.
> 
> Let Family Services be the bad guy and tell Dad there's no appeal process from whatever they dictate. It Must Be Done!


 
 Yep , It might very well end up there . I'm calling a meeting with my Brother and Sister tomorrow to reevaluate our options . Dads just continues to run off or belittle the nurses until they up and quit . It cannot continue and he is endangering his own safety and welfare .

  I will be  comming  to a decision on this very soon .

   It feels a little strange and unconfortable talking so openly about this , but I just hope that this thread may help others who may be here some day themselves . 

  I know in my own case ,It has caused me to sit down with my children and  discuss my future life and the role they may play in it .


----------



## Erik

BigAl said:


> It feels a little strange and unconfortable talking so openly about this , but I just hope that this thread may help others who may be here some day themselves .
> 
> I know in my own case ,It has caused me to sit down with my children and  discuss my future life and the role they may play in it .



I appreciate the level of trust - and the insight it's giving me for dealing with my own dad - seems like he's built in a similar mold as yours, just a little younger (72).

good luck.


----------



## California

Erik said:


> ...he's built in a similar mold as yours, just a little younger (72).


You might as well watch and learn all the tricks. I've been helping out Mom, on and off, with various stuff since she retired at 65.

Now she's 98.


----------



## California

BigAl said:


> It feels a little strange and unconfortable talking so openly about this , but I just hope that this thread may help others who may be here some day themselves.


The whole Boomer, Postwar,  generation are running into this with their parents now, and this is nothing compared to when the Boomers in a few years become a burden to the smaller following generation.

Everyone should learn all they can before they get that call: 

"Your Mom collapsed in Safeway. They carried her to the ER. Does she have insurance?" (First of many incidents was late 1980's. And continuing right through 6/2008. For the moment she's back home.) 

I just got a bill from Kaiser showing their charges in Mom's 97th year, when she was carried to the ER several times. "$54,108.00. Paid by your Kaiser Plan: $54,058. Due immediately: $50". (ER co-pay for an early June trip. There were several more trips after that.)

People, if your folks don't have medical insurance you need to figure something out. Years of ongoing costs like that will bankrupt everybody involved.

I was lucky, Mom as a retired professor has a good pension and excellent health benefits that carried her up to her 95th birthday financially self sufficient. I know this is rare.

But then panic. It took me a year to discover she could sign for a Home Equity Line of Credit. That's what is paying for the more competent caregivers we have over there now. 

Again listen up everybody! Many of you will inherit financial responsibility for elders. Nobody told me how to get the equity out of that house. A reverse mortgage was unavailable because Dad had willed his half-interest to heirs under 60, one of the many gotchas I discovered. Everybody said no until I found the right banker, and it took a year asking everywhere to find him.

I think these discussions here are helpful to anyone who will be on either side of the elder / responsible child issue eventually.



> I know in my own case ,It has caused me to sit down with my children and  discuss my future life and the role they may play in it .


I was lucky, my Dad (parents divorced) late in life plunged into investing and planning. In his last 15 years when he often asked me to review his judgment on investments, I was impressed that he had gotten it right. And he had the good sense to not change anything as he declined. That could have been a lot worse.


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## BigAl RIP

Dad went back in the hospital again last night/this morning .His strenght is gone . He could not get out of a chair if the house was on fire . His wife is worn out as is the family . Trying to get the doctor today to agree with the family to send him to a extended care facility for his own safety . We Found he had the heat in the house turned on . It was 88 degrees at 2:30 this morning in the house .It was 100 degrees here yesterday . They had "jerry rigged" up a water fan to cool them down . It was like a gaint sauna in that place . The house has a new friggin central AC central !!!!!!! Found out Dad has been sleeping in the chair by his bathroom at night . And he keeps telling me he does not need a nurse??????!!!!!!
I'm done ... it hits the fan today !!!!
Either Dad goes to extended care today or I do .


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## American Woman

I hate it for you Al.....You will have to bite the bullet and "just do it" Try to remember that if your Dad were in his right mind there's no way he would behave like he is with out going to a doctor for help. He sounds like a man that has given up.


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## California

Al, that's the end of the line. Clear evidence of endangering himself and another.  

Unfortunately, what he wants is no longer relevant to the decisions made for him.

I'm sorry to hear what you are going through.


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## BigAl RIP

well , Its done ... Dad agree to care management ....I was prepared to walk out for good and he knew it . He finally admitted he was a danger to himself . Were going to try for assitted Living so his wife can be with him . That may not be and option as he may be beyond there capibilities .Headed out now to meet with them . 

  Today I won ,but today I also lost.....I could not feel lower about myself .


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## California

Al, lighten up. The burden of responsibility has passed to you, that's all. He's the same guy who wouldn't let you have your own firearms before age (whatever) and the reasoning here is identical. It just looks different from the other side of the table. 

He still knows you care about him.


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## NorthernRedneck

Keep your chin up Al.

You did what you had to do for his health and safety as well as your sanity.  In time, you'll see how much support he will be getting compared to what he is getting right now and you'll have a peice of mind knowing he is being cared for even when you're not there.  Remember, you can only do so much.....


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## American Woman

Redneck and I went thru the same thing Al. It's a helpless feeling that's indescribably heart breaking. You love your Dad and it shows...your a good son Al.
  "all you can do is keep him and love him"


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## Trakternut

Al, in this day of age when so many children couldn't give a rat's patootie about Mom and Dad until it's time to open the will, you stand out as a son who will, and has, gone to great lengths to see that your dad is in a place where he is safe and cared for.  It's perfectly natural to feel lower than a well digger's boots at a time like this.  Once the dust settles, you'll feel better.....not great, but better about all this.  You did what you could. Gone above and beyond. Racked your nerves half to death. Now, it's time for *you* to get a break!  
  Any dad would be proud to have you for a son.  Good Job!


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## rback33

BigAl said:


> <snip>
> Today I won ,but today I also lost.....I could not feel lower about myself .



You should feel the opposite. You have done what you can and you have done what is right. I have not checked into this thread for days because it reminds me too much of my Grandma and what my Grandpa has been/is going through. Hang in there. We are all thinking about you!


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## BigAl RIP

Thanks for the nice words and kindness . Its just something that I need to work through . 


    Spent the afternoon looking at different Assisted Care homes again . 

   Wow ! They all vary not only in price but also services offered . 

      Looks like I have found a nice oversized 1 bedroom /1 bath that may fit Dad's  requirements . I visited the facilities 3 times today  unannouced at different times . I was highly impressed with the quaility of service and the attitude of not only the care givers but also the patients . Even the 2 little resident dogs seemed happy and were busy greeting anyone that would take a minute to pet them . Prices vary considerbly from facility to facility . Expect to pay $6000 or so a month for a husband/wife care at a assisted living facility . Nursing homes start at about $6000 *a person per month* here in our area . 

   It is only going to be more costly in the future . Health care never goes down in cost .

   As CaliF.  has said , do your planning now and don't wait to suddenly be completely surprised or overwhelmed by the high cost of senior care . There are many things a older person or their family can do *now* to help offset these cost . Putting your head in the sand and paying no attention is not a game plan or option  . It can easily wipe out the entire finances of a family if you are not prepared . Spend a few minutes to sit down and talk with a professional senior care specialist about finances and options you can put in place now before its too late .Most care facilities have one .
 In our case ,my father is a lucky man that he does have some assets to fall back  on .


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## urednecku

Al, Trakternut about summed it up. You have done much more than most could or would have done. I have one sister in particular that just "can't stand to see Mama like that." Every time she goes home or out, she drives within 1/3rd mile of Mom, but has only been to the facility maybe 3 times in the last 2 years. Cory or myself see Mama like that nearly every day, and it _is _hard seeing Mom that way. Friend, I know first hand how hard it is to take this advice, but: once you get things strait, RELAX, and find a way to drain the stress of your parents problems from YOURSELF.  That does not mean you have forgotten them, just that you acknowledge that you must care for your own health. Believe me, your parents would not have it any other way, in their right mind. 
I have to constantly "talk" to my late Dad & ask if I am doing the right thing, with a lot of decisions. Believe it or not, I can hear him telling me to "take care of your family, do what _YOU_ _need _to do".  Ask your self what your Dad would have said to do, if he had known 10 or so years ago what the situation would be.
Best of luck.


----------



## tracknut

My Dad died 1 year ago after about 2 years of hell for mom and us 4 kids [40 to 52yrs old]. 9 months befor he died we found he had cancer that out run all the treatments. It was a hard and ugly death to watch and help with his care. we kept him at home. He hated the thought of a care center 'didn't want us to loose the farm and home. There was a lot of hard things to do and tack care of. Al you did one of the best thing for you and all. It will be hard to take for a while but it will get better    Goodluck and god bless   Jeff


----------



## pirate_girl

BigAl said:


> Thanks for the nice words and kindness . Its just something that I need to work through .
> 
> 
> Spent the afternoon looking at different Assisted Care homes again .
> 
> Wow ! They all vary not only in price but also services offered .
> 
> Looks like I have found a nice oversized 1 bedroom /1 bath that may fit Dad's  requirements . I visited the facilities 3 times today  unannouced at different times . I was highly impressed with the quaility of service and the attitude of not only the care givers but also the patients . Even the 2 little resident dogs seemed happy and were busy greeting anyone that would take a minute to pet them . Prices vary considerbly from facility to facility . Expect to pay $6000 or so a month for a husband/wife care at a assisted living facility . Nursing homes start at about $6000 *a person per month* here in our area .
> 
> It is only going to be more costly in the future . Health care never goes down in cost .
> 
> As CaliF.  has said , do your planning now and don't wait to suddenly be completely surprised or overwhelmed by the high cost of senior care . There are many things a older person or their family can do *now* to help offset these cost . Putting your head in the sand and paying no attention is not a game plan or option  . It can easily wipe out the entire finances of a family if you are not prepared . Spend a few minutes to sit down and talk with a professional senior care specialist about finances and options you can put in place now before its too late .Most care facilities have one .
> *  In our case ,my father is a lucky man that he does have some assets to fall back  on *.



Well thank God for that!
It's wonderful to hear that he finally agreed to this Al.
You did what you had to do and believe it or not, once he adjusts to the environment and the staff- he'll be just fine.
Hugs darling.
You did good!


----------



## American Woman

tracknut said:


> My Dad died 1 year ago after about 2 years of hell for mom and us 4 kids [40 to 52yrs old]. 9 months befor he died we found he had cancer that out run all the treatments. It was a hard and ugly death to watch and help with his care. we kept him at home. He hated the thought of a care center 'didn't want us to loose the farm and home. There was a lot of hard things to do and tack care of. Al you did one of the best thing for you and all. It will be hard to take for a while but it will get better    Goodluck and god bless   Jeff


We had about six weeks notice from the cancer diagnosis. 
It is hell on earth to go thru for everyone involved. It's been 8 months for me and that "shell shock" feeling has gotten better. If Daddy had been an animal the humane thing to do would be put him to sleep. So WHY did we have to let him suffer so long and hard?


----------



## EastTexFrank

BigAl said:


> In our case ,my father is a lucky man that he does have some assets to fall back on .


 
Not the least of which is a loving son.  God bless you Al.


----------



## BigAl RIP

Dad call me a little bit ago . He wants to back out on assisted living .Again...


I'm done .... I just gave up . The man I thought I knew does not exist anymore . He is a complete stranger . I always thought of myself as a tuff SOB who would always get the job done , no matter what . I sent a letter today to my brother and sister turning over all the family affairs and assets to them . I have resigned from the family as of today and it is now official . I can't stand by and watch my Dad kill himself slowly and then keep expecting me to pick up the pieces . I'll have my memories from this day forward .Hes taking me down with him and I have a loving wife and children that need me too . 
  I figure I can't help Dad anymore , but I can do some good helping others who want to help themselves with the life I have left .

 I'll close up and sale Calfornia and I am never looking back . Idaho will be next and then we will head to Panama to work with the school kids and people who really need it . Thats been my callin for quite some time now and all the money in the world can't keep me here any longer .


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## urednecku

Rest at night  knowing that you did your best . God bless you, our prayers are still with you. Best of luck!!


Edit:  Remember we are still here if you need us, even just to talk.


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## American Woman

I have had to come to the conclusion that my Dad wasn't the man I knew and loved at one time. It's a heart wrenching decision that you really don't believe when it comes down to it. Especially if you have to look them in the face. Stay strong because your right about your wife and kids needing you. If your Dad was in his right frame of mine then he would tell you that your wife and kids came first. You are doing the best you can and that's all anyone can ask.


----------



## pirate_girl

BigAl said:


> Dad call me a little bit ago . He wants to back out on assisted living .Again...
> 
> 
> I'm done .... I just gave up . The man I thought I knew does not exist anymore . He is a complete stranger . I always thought of myself as a tuff SOB who would always get the job done , no matter what . *I sent a letter today to my brother and sister turning over all the family affairs and assets to them .* I have resigned from the family as of today and it is now official . I can't stand by and watch my Dad kill himself slowly and then keep expecting me to pick up the pieces . I'll have my memories from this day forward .*Hes taking me down with him and I have a loving wife and children that need me too . *
> I figure I can't help Dad anymore , but I can do some good helping others who want to help themselves with the life I have left .
> 
> I'll close up and sale Calfornia and I am never looking back . Idaho will be next and then we will head to Panama to work with the school kids and people who really need it . Thats been my callin for quite some time now and all the money in the world can't keep me here any longer .



I think you made the right decision Al.
This was obviously burning you out and you had no choice but to allow other family members to take over.
As you said, you have a wife and kids to think about.
The brunt of the decision should have never been soley your thing anyway, not if you have siblings who should have been just as much a part of it from the get go.
Rest assured that you've done ok.. and that your Dad sooner or later will be in the best place he can be.
Happy, healthy and well cared for.
Hugs.


----------



## BigAl RIP

This morning Dad called and said he was sorry . That even made me feel worst then I already felt . 
He agreed that he needs to go to 24 hour care . 

I drove out there and then drove him to his Doctor's Appointment and we talked in detail about everything . I am not holding my breath that he will actually be moving to assisted living . We shall see . 
I played my final cards last night and this morning . Dad knows I don't bluff . 

I sure would like to see Dad safe in a secure enviroment .

His *wife *just accused me today of trying to "Just stick him in a Retirment Home , so I could sell his house and kick her ass out " . 

My fathers wife has Dementia and I purposely chose this Assisted Living Complex because they also work with Dementia and Alzhemimers patients and there fore she can stay with Dad and they can be together till the end of their days . I can't win !!!!!!

Man ! It just gets crazier and crazier.


----------



## American Woman

Al I had the same problem with Daddy! It sounds like she is nagging him behind your back every time he makes a decision to move. My poor Daddy was so sick, and she wouldn't give him her blessing to even come home with me. The only way I was able to get him help was to call an ambulance, and leave with him. You have him going now so just keep going and ignore the calls to hold up. It's probably her....not him...
I feel so bad for you...we are going thru the same stuff all over again with Red's Momma.


----------



## BigAl RIP

Well I have started interviewing realtors . My home in Calif. is now for sale . If anybody wants to move to this God for saken state ,I got a great place for you . 3000 plus sq.feet all cedar home . 3 bed/ 3 bath, Game room ,sauna, granite tops . custom made floors, 24K gold bath fixtures , your own lake with 10 pound Bass . 28x32 metal shop with heat and a complete wood shop , upper and lower covered decks , gazebo on the lake ,paddle boats ,dog kennel, completely fenced .Home is designed for serious entertaining or the perfect mountain hideaway .Owner  Finacing avalible OAC . 60 miles northeast of Saccramento .Serious inquires only . Send me a PM for further information .


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## BigAl RIP

Well .... Dad backed out on his word again ... I'm not surprized . Until the doctor* Writes the ORDERS ,* instead of just telling Dad that he needs to be in assisted living this whole thing is a waste of time . I hope to leave next week for my home in Idaho . Dad is on his own ......... 

   I guess i'll pick up the pieces when he breaks his hip and ends up dying from the complications . He seems to feel he knows more about this than his whole family or doctor does  and his "ding a ling wife" is not helping the situation any .
 Sure wish the doctor would be a little more of a doctor and stop trying to pretend to play the "Best Friend" part .


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## urednecku

Sounds like the Doc. doesn't understand something--does he think Dad is living with you, or that you will just 'keep on keeping on'? Does the wife see the same Doc, or maybe he doesn't understand the way she is messing with Dad's mind? Something sure doesn't sound right.


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## BigAl RIP

urednecku said:


> Sounds like the Doc. doesn't understand something--does he think Dad is living with you, or that you will just 'keep on keeping on'? Does the wife see the same Doc, or maybe he doesn't understand the way she is messing with Dad's mind? Something sure doesn't sound right.


 
 They each have their own doctor . Dad's doctor is a super nice guy . He needs to be more of a doctor . 
He knows dad lives alone . 
He knows dad has ran off his nurses . 
He tells me dad should be in Assisted living and has told dad this , but he does not want to write written orders . Every time he tells Dad he needs to be in Assisted living ,the doctor will not look at dad , he stares at the floor . Dad just lets it go in one ear and out the other .
I have had one on one conversations about dads health with the doctor many times . He is the one that started this push for assisted living in the first place .I just don't see it changin until something really bad happens and then it will be to late .Dad has fallen hard about 7 times this year . The odds are aginst him ....


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## urednecku

Super nice guy is one thing, good Dr. is another. Ask him what about _when_ Dad falls at home, alone for who knows how long, and dear old Doc knew he _should have been_ in assisted living how long ago, but refused to write the orders??  How will Doc feel then?
Sounds like another lawyers field day in the making.  I'm not suggesting to get sue happy, just trying to wake Doc up to do what is right.


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## mtntopper

Al, one last thing you should consider is make sure your father has a life line for emergency help if and when needed. Maybe the doctor can help on this precaution. The life line works through his phone and he can wear the link as a bracelet or around his neck to notify authorities when he needs help. All that you can do is just hope he has it on when or if he falls and can not get back up. He will have to actually acknowledge it is working daily or they will call him to make sure he is okay. It helps ease your mind a bit but it needs to worn by him to be actually useful. Wishing you the best.......


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## American Woman

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Al, Does California have the "Baker Act" law?
[/FONT]​ [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] _f there is reason to believe that he or she is mentally ill and because of his or her mental illness: __[/FONT]_​_
(a) 1[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif].  The person has refused voluntary examination after conscientious explanation and (a) disclosure of the purpose of the examination; *or *[/FONT]​ [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]	(a) 2.  The person is unable to determine for himself or herself whether the examination is (a) necessary; and [/FONT]​ [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] (b) 1.  Without care or treatment, the person is likely to suffer from neglect or refuse to  care for himself or herself; such neglect or refusal poses a real and present threat of substantial harm to his or her well-being; and it is not apparent that such harm may be avoided through the help of willing family members or friends or the provision of other services; *or *[/FONT]​ [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] (a) 2.  There is a substantial likelihood that without care or treatment the person will cause serious bodily harm to himself or herself or others in the near future, as evidenced by recent behavior.[/FONT]​_


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## BigAl RIP

mtntopper said:


> Al, one last thing you should consider is make sure your father has a life line for emergency help if and when needed. Maybe the doctor can help on this precaution. The life line works through his phone and he can wear the link as a bracelet or around his neck to notify authorities when he needs help. All that you can do is just hope he has it on when or if he falls and can not get back up. He will have to actually acknowledge it is working daily or they will call him to make sure he is okay. It helps ease your mind a bit but it needs to worn by him to be actually useful. Wishing you the best.......


 
 Yea Bill ,
 We have discussed this option of "Lifeline" with Dad . Dads wife is with him 24/7 and the phone has speed dail to the local fire dept . She knows how to use it and has 7 times in the past now ...... Its out of my hands now . 
  I met with dad and this morning I interviewed another nurse .

    I had not made any promises to Dad ,other than I would interview her . She is a nice lady but told me, my Father should be in a care facility . She has 35 years in health care .

    Long story short ,Dad now flatly  refuses to consider Assisted Living even for a short trail period . 

He called my bluff that I will not go . Big Mistake ... I never bluff . 

     I told him good bye . I then went and picked up my rental deposit check at the Assisted Living home . 

     Sunday Morning I will be returning to Idaho . 

   So you folks take care and i'll check in as time allows .Nothing else I can say .
 Thanks for all the advice and help .

  God Bless


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## California

Al, sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. 

I think you have dodged what happened to Tim Russert. Putting his Dad in assisted living over his Dad's unreasonable objection (and after years of managing him) was the final stress that I'm sure was what caused his  massive heart attack.

You've probably heard this before - "the caregiver always goes first". Once someone needs every moment of their life managed, it takes tag teams, several people, to keep up with the continual chaos.  No parent in their right mind would wish that upon their offspring.

We wish you the best wherever your path takes you. Please keep us updated from time to time.


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## American Woman

Al, thanks to this thread you started Redneck and I have sat down and had a serious talk about what it is doing to us and our kids trying to keep the promise with his Momma. Little by little we are able to see things for what they are and back of at times. Your a good son, and you have had to make a decision as a husband and father. So take a deep breath and know that you are doing the right thing for your family if you still cant's feel right about it for yourself..


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## urednecku

I'll ditto what Cali & AW said. We are still here for ya. And thanks for *your *help. 
Prayers, still.


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## CityGirl

REcent breakthroughs
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...d-biggest-breakthrough-disease-100-years.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...rs-given-hope-by-new-generation-of-drugs.html


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## BigAl RIP

Thought I would give a little update .

    Dad has been in and out of the hospital many times since we had the big blow up . I have not said a word . He was at Emergency last week and was then returned a week ago tonight because his legs have completely quit .  He still thinks he can drive even though he must pick up his legs to place them on the gas and brake pedal . I refuse to ride with him unless I drive . I still can't believe the state gave him back his license . 
  Today the hospital called to tell me Dad will be transfered to a nursing home . Unless he can build up his legs over the next 30 days  he will be there indefinately . 
 I am relieved to know that finally he will have some 24 hour supervision . 

   His wife is another story , Her lousy piece of crap kids refuse to be bothered by her needs now that they have full control of her trust . So,I'll make the phone call to her kids and let them know that their mother  cannot be left by herself . I have no legal control to take care of her .NO DMPA ,POA ,nothing . So in about 2 days when they refuse to help I am calling the Adult Protective Services and turn them in for Elder abuse . I want to look them in the face as they are put in hand cuffs and hauled to jail . 
 I told my Dad this and he seemed to be relieved . Now I wonder if this was the whole problem all along and why he fought me so hard .


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## pirate_girl

BigAl said:


> Today the hospital called to tell me Dad will be transfered to a nursing home . Unless he can build up his legs over the next 30 days  he will be there indefinately .


Who authorized that?


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## American Woman

That's a relief for you....sending my MIL to a nursing home under the pretense she was going for physical therapy made it easier. Why can't his wife go with him and be in the same room?


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## BigAl RIP

pirate_girl said:


> Who authorized that?


 
 I guess the hospital and doctor decided . Its 30 therapy days to start . They(hospital) asked me if I had DMPA and I said I did and that I agreed with the idea . He is free to go anywhere after that if we choose to , or do something else .
  Since dads wife has  Alzheimers she can not be with dad in the same room . Maybe in another part of the complex , but that decision can only come from her and her kids ,so my hands are tied


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## benspawpaw

big al you said you were trying to please a bunch of people. quit. just do what you feel in your own heart is right even if it makes someone mad. you will come out of top. we will pray for you and your family.


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## pirate_girl

BigAl said:


> I guess the hospital and* doctor *decided . Its 30 therapy days to start . They(hospital) asked me if I had DMPA and I said I did and that I agreed with the idea . He is free to go anywhere after that if we choose to , or do something else .
> Since dads wife has  Alzheimers she can not be with dad in the same room . Maybe in another part of the complex , but that decision can only come from her and her kids ,so my hands are tied


That's what I thought.

I feel your pain Al.
The only person in my family who'd ever suffered from Alzheimer's was my Grams. She was _pleasantly confused_ every step of the way, and didn't have a mean bone in her body from diagnosis to death.

However, I am dealing with a couple of patients where I work who are there because of surgical procedure/rehab or take George (the "piece of work" and ward entertainer) 
George was living with his brother and wife when he first began showing signs of dementia.
A TIA, pneumonia and a few other things landed him in our facility.
I have dealt with many people who have some form of dementia but this guy is a whole new thing
He's stubborn. He's been dumped with us until his therapy is over, then will be moving to the nursing home.
Take a few nights ago; he was up and down out of bed, up and down stumbling around out of his wheel chair.
The census is down, so of course I only have 2 aides working with me and the other nurse, and we spend the majority of our time chasing George and making sure he doesn't fall.
Well.. he did! Fell right on his butt out in the living room area.
So it was phone calls and an incident report for me.
Thank God the doctor agreed to up his Ativan (not that it's making MUCH difference), but at least he gives us the occasional break.

He clocked me in the jaw the other night when I was trying to help the girls get him in the shower.
If I had a dime for every time he says "God DAMMIT"- I'd be rich.

I know how you feel, and I hope your Pops ends up being in a place where he feels safe, comfortable and settled.


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## BigAl RIP

I know all of you have been so kind and thoughtful through all this ,but I need one more favor to ask  . 
   Dad seems to be going downhill pretty fast the last 12 hours . All stength is now gone .He is on IV's and oxygen . His breathing is in gasp . 
  Since I told him yesterday ,I would make damn sure his wife was taken care of , he seems to have given up .
  Only a miracle can save him now and that is not what I am asking for .
 I know whats coming .  
 I'm just asking that maybe a few folks can add him in your prayers tonight ,that when the time comes , the Good Lord can lead him home by his hand . I don't want him to have to make the last few steps by himself .


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## OhioTC18 RIP

BigAl said:


> when the time comes , the Good Lord can lead him home by his hand . I don't want him to have to make the last few steps by himself .



He won't be alone Al.


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## pirate_girl

OhioTC18 said:


> He won't be alone Al.


What Jerry said


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## Erik

will remember both you and your dad in tonight's prayers, Al.


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## American Woman

BigAl said:


> when the time comes , the Good Lord can lead him home by his hand . I don't want him to have to make the last few steps by himself .


Of course he will Al....A shepherd always comes back for their sheep.
My Dad was a very angry man most all his life, and I know he was taken by the hand in the end.


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## jpr62902

Alzheimer's.  Yuck.  The person you know, love and have bonded with your entire life is slowly stripped away by the brain scarring of this awful disease.  And to top it all off, you're SUPPOSED to lie to them to make it easier on them.  "No, Mom, you can't drive to the store because your car is in the shop ..."  Or, "Well, Mom, you're just gonna stay here a few days while they paint your living room."

For all who have endured or succumbed to this awful disease, I feel for you deeply.


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## NorthernRedneck

Al, I know there is no easy way to deal with something like this but just remember to be strong and that we'll all be thinking of you in our prayers.  Sounds like the only thing left for you to do is to be there for him and show him love and support and help to ease his suffering.  That's all you can do at this point.


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## BigAl RIP

I just returned from the Nursing home .

    The nurse, nurse supervisor and Social worker caught me before I even got to Dad's room . They have placed him in the "Comfort Stage" now . I had to sign some legal papers that I understood that Dad is now being given meds to ease his pain and there is little they can do from here on . 
  I knew this was coming soon ,but still ,even though I was prepared for this , it still came as news that was tough to hear . 

  I made the necessary phone calls and now it up to the Good Lord .

  I know that maybe I have shared too much with you folks about this and my intentions were never to air my Dad's problems , but .... if any of this thread helps someone else in the future deal with this own family and realize that others in life have been down this road too, then it was all worth it . 

   There will only be * one last entry*, from me, about this ,and at that time I am going to ask Doc and the moderators  to "Lock" this thread .
 Thank you and God Bless .


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## American Woman

My thoughts and prayers are with you and your Dad Al. 
This can be a bittersweet time.


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## Trakternut

Al,
  I have nooo idea what to say to you at this point. You're in my thoughts and prayers.  I don't know what you're feeling, but I'm sorta thinking it's a rollercoaster of emotions. Tears the hell outta you. I hope and pray for peace for you.......and your dad.
  I think it would be appropriate to have this thread locked upon your posting that "one last post".  There'd be nothing to add after that.
  All my best.
    Monte a/k/a Trakternut.


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## pirate_girl

BigAl said:


> Thank you and God Bless .


You've done your best Al, as I've followed this journey concerning you and your Dad.
He'll be kept comfortable and cared for (that is my hope anyway for himself AND you).
Know you are the good son, and it's my honest wish that he has a speedy shot, right into the arms of God. 
Big BIG hugs, cause you need them right now.


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## HulaMac

Thinking and praying for your dad, you and your family in this difficult time. May God take him gently in his loving arms and bring him home.


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## BigAl RIP

The end came quickly for dad today at 11:41 . We were all present .I was able to hold his hand as he walked those last few steps to God , One minute he was talking to us and the next he just laid his head down and went to sleep .

*   Greg, I ask that you close and lock this thread as it has ran its course now .* 


   Thanks everybody, for the support , prayers and shared stories . May the Good Lord Bless each one of you .
  Allen


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