# Snow Trac replacement BRONZE drive sprockets



## Melensdad

I posted in another thread that I may have found a source for newly cast bronze drive sprockets for Snow Tracs.  The part number is ST52.  It shows up in the diagram below as #38 on the drawing. 

Depending on the year of your Snow Trac, there were a couple differnet drive sprockets so you should check your sprockets to see if this is the correct one for your unit.  I believe this sprocket was used on all the later models Snow Tracs, starting sometime in the mid-to-late 60's and going through the end of their production in 1982.

At this time I do NOT know the cost of the sprockets, or if I will be able to get them cast.  However, I thought others might need a set of sprockets and figured it would be good to post this information.  

IF YOU NEED NEW SPROCKETS please post to this thread and I will send you the contact information for the guy I am working with in Canada.  He used to be the importer for Snow Tracs.  He has a Heavy Duty version of the sprockets that he used to have cast and he sold as a replacement part.  He is currently working with a foundry to get pricing.

Picture #1 below:  My worn out sprocket.
Picture #2 below:  The H.D. Bronze Alloy sprocket.
Picture #3 below:  Image from the parts manual showing the sprockets (#38, which is actually part #ST52).


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## GYPSY

Looks worn only on one side.   Can it be turned to run on the other side of the sprocket tooth.   Also looks like it could be cut out of flat plate by any machine shop with a tracer out of any material you want.   That would be a lot cheaper than a casting.


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## Melensdad

They have already been reversed they are worn on one side, and worn BADLY on the other side.

As for going to a machine shop, I thought of that because one of my best friends owns a shop with several CNC machines, etc.  However the problem is that these are made of bronze because they are designed to wear.  If steel or a similar material is used, the tracks will be destroyed over time.  Consequently it is easier and cheaper to replace the sprockets than to replace all the grousers on your tracks!

I would suppose that some sort of a hardened aluminum could be used for the sprockets, but it seems to me that any aluminum would wear much faster than bronze.  I don't expect that this will be cheap, but a proper casting should last for a decade of normal use without causing undue wear to the track parts.


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## Mith

Could you not cast a plate of bronze (which maybe could be done in your back yard), then get it machined to the shape?


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## Melensdad

Mith said:
			
		

> Could you not cast a plate of bronze (which maybe could be done in your back yard)


My wife doesn't let me play with fire


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## Rbenjamin30

Hello

I am a new user but have had a 1972 ST 4 for several years which I use to get into my off grid cabin during the winter.  I am looking for replacement for the bronze drive sprockets.  I have had it for about 6 years and it has been a great vehicle.   I am in the Adirondacks and interested in contact with any other Sno Trac owners

I am also looking for a source to re[lace my tracks and an emergency brake

My email is Rbenjamin30@comcast.net if you have any info on sources for replacement parts

 You can call at 973 222-1785


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## redsqwrl

hello r ben this is a olf thread, but a good one to revive just the same,.

most folks were getting sprockets from JT foundry in north pole alaska.

Rumor has it they shut down or moved.

There are molds around good luck with your search and post your findings 

Mike


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## 300 H and H

Melensdad said:


> IF YOU NEED NEW SPROCKETS please post to this thread and I will send you the contact information for the guy I am working with in Canada. He used to be the importer for Snow Tracs. He has a Heavy Duty version of the sprockets that he used to have cast and he sold as a replacement part. He is currently working with a foundry to get pricing....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it helps the guys with older two band models, I have a brand new set of J&K foundries for two band tracks. I would be willing to lend one of them to your contact, for a pattern, as long as I could get it back when he is done with it....
> 
> Regards, Kirk


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## redsqwrl

Kirk that was wight years ago..... Maybe ?

Throw those sprockets in the truck when you come up, I will call a nonferrous foundry tomorrow and see if they can pull a mold off of a set.....

Please..

I dragged my feet to long and eventually the camo machine will need a set.
Other wise I suppose I will be going poly again.


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## MNoutdoors RIP

If it helps the guys with older two band models, I have a brand new set of J&K foundries for two band tracks. I would be willing to lend one of them to your contact, for a pattern, as long as I could get it back when he is done with it....

Regards, Kirk[/QUOTE]

I have a foundry we work with also we need to keep someone in the casting business making sprockets. Sad news on J&K


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## 300 H and H

This Thursday work?


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## 300 H and H

boggie said:


> I have a foundry we work with also we need to keep someone in the casting business making sprockets. Sad news on J&K


 
Do You want to barrow one? I would lend you one for a foundry here in the States.. It wouldn't hurt to have two sources for these I wouldn't think, just in case....... There is also a recipie for the propper amount of Aluminum/bronze to get them as per original. The fellow at J&K told me about it on the phone, but I just don't remember the percentages.

P.M. me if needed.

Regards, Kirk


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## MNoutdoors RIP

300 H and H said:


> Do You want to barrow one? I would lend you one for a foundry here in the States.. It wouldn't hurt to have two sources for these I wouldn't think, just in case....... There is also a recipie for the propper amount of Aluminum/bronze to get them as per original. The fellow at J&K told me about it on the phone, but I just don't remember the percentages.
> 
> P.M. me if needed.
> 
> Regards, Kirk



Let you know when back in the country


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## loggah

I have a foundry nearby ,that i have  used ,  and they are in the process of pouring some sno-cat steering pulleys for me now. If some one needs sprockets made up it would be no problem. They do aluminum and Bronze,including Bronze for gears. Don


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## redsqwrl

well before we rush off and make patterns and tooling to get going we should make sure that J-T didn't just stop pouring for winter and head south to panama for winter.

I have to believe the molds and patterns are sitting somewhere.

Mike


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## redsqwrl

FWIW the foundry I just visited with said they can pull a part off of a part, Shrinkage is a factor.

This material has a short freeze window. they would create a relief so it would release easily.

and the pricing was weight of the material driven, labor looked insignificant.


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## loggah

Most patterns are a bit oversize,depending on the size of the part,and the material that its made of. On small pieces that are loose work its minimal and most patterns will have a small taper for the work to release from the mold.A pattern for those sprockets could be made out of plywood a bit oversize to allow for shrinkage,that sprocket is simple .I have had a few patterns made for Lombard stuff years ago in the 70's and they were pretty expensive back then, now not so bad lots of patterns are made of styro- foam and plastic instead of wood like in the old days.You could make sprockets with a 3D printer !!


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## MNoutdoors RIP

redsqwrl said:


> well before we rush off and make patterns and tooling to get going we should make sure that J-T didn't just stop pouring for winter and head south to panama for winter.
> 
> I have to believe the molds and patterns are sitting somewhere.
> 
> Mike



I might know of someone else with some molds also used to be a importer 
Of the snowtracs


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## 300 H and H

redsqwrl said:


> well before we rush off and make patterns and tooling to get going we should make sure that J-T didn't just stop pouring for winter and head south to panama for winter.
> 
> I have to believe the molds and patterns are sitting somewhere.
> 
> Mike


 

I was thinking that in another thread a member here was told by some one they know that the building J&K was in is now vacant.... Could be wrong I suppose. I am sure your right about the pattern they were using, it is just sitting some were... 

Loggah, Do you think it would be possible to submerge the orginal part in hot wax and then make the oversized mold from that? You could then of course easily remove the wax... I am thinking this may work, but I don't know the orientation, or the amount of shrinkage we are talking here.

Regards, Kirk


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## 300 H and H

Rbenjamin30 said:


> Hello
> 
> I am a new user but have had a 1972 ST 4 for several years which I use to get into my off grid cabin during the winter. I am looking for replacement for the bronze drive sprockets. I have had it for about 6 years and it has been a great vehicle. I am in the Adirondacks and interested in contact with any other Sno Trac owners
> 
> I am also looking for a source to re[lace my tracks and an emergency brake
> 
> My email is Rbenjamin30@comcast.net if you have any info on sources for replacement parts
> 
> You can call at 973 222-1785


 
Sorry Rbenjamin30, we kinda blew past your post. First welcome to the Forum, and also welcome from a fellow ST4 ower here. Several Snow Trac fans here as you may know.. Glad you found us here.

As for drive sprockets we're working on it as you can see. Stay tuned!

Regards, Kirk


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## loggah

I don't believe the hot wax would work, im thinking find out the alloy of the sprocket and size and you can figure out the amount of shrinkage. If anyone had a new sprocket ,or one that had only been run in one direction it could be traced out and the extra could be added in and the thickness can also be allowed for. In iron if i remember correctly the shrinkage was about 1/8" in a 12" piece.What is the track pitch on the snowtrac's? Don


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## 3512b

that was me on J@j in Fairbanks and yes was told the building is empty
 I been asking around on the patterns so far no leads
 part on part will give a smaller finish piece, but this is an easy pice to cast just knowing the type of bronze you want to use and any improvements in the design you want to make,
 All it takes is money and time........


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## 300 H and H

Base diameter is 15 3/8" (acoss the gear at the bottoms of the teeth)

Acoss the tip of the teeth, 17 1/4"

Tip center of tooth to the next tooth center 3 1/2"

Tooth thickness is 3/8"

Margin at top of the tooth is 3/4" and the space between teeth is 2" 

14 teeth total, with 7 drive tabs on the inside for bolting to brake drum. (two band track) each of these has a lug on the back, so it isn't really that flat on either side.

Sure wish I had written down the % of aluminum in the alloy, but I was driving at the time I was told.


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## redsqwrl

Exactly, If Molds can be had I prefer to buy them or borrow them.

I have interest from the Wood Technology group where I work, they can and will create a pattern/mold. (this will take time as we are a educational situation)

according to the two non ferous foundry's near me .250 per foot is the shrinkage for Bronze. I still need the material composition. is it truely aluminized?

Maybe this project warrants its own thread. but Rben was looking for sprockets so here isn't the worst place.

Mike


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## MNoutdoors RIP

I just had a conversation with Gary Lemke who was the importer into the US 
( He started ASV ) of the snowtracs he said he did have the mold at one point he thought but believes it's long gone. I asked how many he brought into the US 
This would have been 1968,69,70,71 he thought is was about 30 or so. 
Some narrow and some wide tracs


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## loggah

Pure bronze is probably to hard and wears the grouser,i imagine the aluminum bronze comp. is easier on the tracks.


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## 300 H and H

I want to say it was 20% aluminum, but I just cann't say for sure...

Is 20% a workable alloy?

Regards, Kirk


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## MNoutdoors RIP

I should be receiving a call from someone that worked at the foundry to find out if the mold is available in the next few days


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## MNoutdoors RIP

300 H and H said:


> I want to say it was 20% aluminum, but I just cann't say for sure...
> 
> Is 20% a workable alloy?
> 
> Regards, Kirk



Most likely 5-11% this is what some bearing bronze has in it


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## Snowtrac Nome

bearing bronze is what they were using at north poll I believe there was some nickel in theirs too as they were a darker color and advertised to wear better than the oem stuff was


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## 300 H and H

boggie said:


> Most likely 5-11% this is what some bearing bronze has in it


 
I kept thinking 1/5 or 20%... But maybe it was that I was remembering the 5 and it was 5%, and that could be...

If I remeber correctly isn't there a hard and soft bronze bearing material? The harder stuff you need to grease it when wearing on a steel shaft. The softer material you don't need to grease to keep it from wearing on the shaft, even without grease. I coud be wrong about that...

These J&K castings are quite yellow more like the color of brass btw. I've had them for several years, and they don't seem to darken with time, in the corner of my shop anyway.

Lets hope the mold is avalilable, and your able to secure it.

Regards, Kirk


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## Snowtrac Nome

jims sprockets were dark just like nickel bronze welding wire


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## jask

I need to check through my "book" but I am fairly sure these are silicone bronze- much harder and more durable than bearing or aluminum bronzes.


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## Snowtrac Nome

I think you are right I believe he called it that not nickel bronze.


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## JimVT

when I bout mine I ordered 5 . one just incase something like this happened. he called them silicon bronze and told me to use that wire to weld on them.


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## jask

I was talking to one of my favourite welders here in town about the idea of TIG welding repairs and she told me about another fabricator who has been doing some small scale casting and foundry work. I am meeting with him next week to look at patterning a drive sprocket. He said silicone bronze is a more advanced casting metal and has a narrow temperature window and is prone to casting shrinkage and voids if overheated... and since the pattern I am bringing him shows signs of being hot and has shrink voids, I am looking forward to seeing what he has to suggest   The new alloys are actually harder than the old silicone bronzes and he did not think this would be an issue with old ( not easily replaced..) grousers.
Will let you know as things develop.
Jim I will PM you about possibly getting some pictures of your "new" sprockets as mine are worn on both sides and it would be good to have some measurements to properly "clock" the drive teeth.


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## 300 H and H

JimVT said:


> when I bout mine I ordered 5 . one just incase something like this happened. he called them silicon bronze and told me to use that wire to weld on them.


 
And yours are from were? Are they J&K from North Pole AK.?

You bought yous before I bought mine. But I was thinking those you have were from a thicker mold that Lyndon had?? 

Details please

Regards, Kirk


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## billa

Manganese bronze. Cu55%+,Zn 38%+, strong and tough used for landing-gear and tail-skid castings, Tensile strength 65000 psi, shrinkage 1/8 to 11/64 in/ft (range for Al and Mg)                                                                     Hard Bronze SAE Standard 62, Cu and Tin mostly-Good for severe conditions and heavy pressure, used for gears and bearings. Tensile=30000 psi and then Phosphor Bronze.(Cu, Sn, Pb) Resistant to wear and scuffing. Tensile 30000 psi and then there's Cast Aluminum Bronze SAE Std 68. Used in gears,etc. Tensile as-cast 25-50000 psi (2 grades). All this sounds like a job for an experienced Foundry man. It  would be fun to draw it, print it and CNC the pattern on a mill(and make the teeth wider maybe). Damn I can almost see that dream shop from here.


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## JimVT

I bought 5 from north pole and are stock ones . But the mold he had has the centering tabs moved or changed some. He told me this when we talked on the phone.
It had something to do with the fitting when they made the mold. I wished I knew what machine they were working on.
The inside centering tabs were 1/8 inch to small for the rubber covered ice drum.
The drum fits loose over them.
So I welded a bead on top of each tab that holds the drum.
It works ok.
It is a little more work but an easy fix. It was Easier than drilling the holes in them.
I also have a set of the heavy brass and other worn out ones. I collected them from my friends years ago and was going to build something.
 jim


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## vintagebike

Does someone have some shots of the various stages of sprocket wear? The good, the bad and the ugly?  Just about to start on an EcoTec conversion of our 1959, seeing the success Louis has had.


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## alpinenut

The replacement bronze sprockets by J&T Foundry in North Pole were cast from Silicon Bronze, Alloy CDA 873 Everdur, with composition
Copper 95%
Silicon 4%
Manganese 1%


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## teledawg

I have a set of 4 NOS ST30A drive sprockets for 2 band machines that would be good candidates to use for making a drawing or pattern from.


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## JimVT

4 heavy brass and a stock.


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## sitting-bull

hallo what is the price for a set for 2 bands trac ?


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## JimVT

I got mine for $200 each but was told they shut down.


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## couchloafer

I have a set of molds for the 3 or 5 band I got from Bob Canton that can easily be modified for the 2 band. If anyone is interested I can get a price from the local foundry.........


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## redsqwrl

this is good news.

any one have a three band and two band sprocket to compare?


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## Snowtrac Nome

what needs to be done to modify the sprockets for 2 band the 3 band sprockets look a lot more robust


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## 300 H and H

redsqwrl said:


> this is good news.
> 
> any one have a three band and two band sprocket to compare?


 
When you were here last week, I should have given you a new unused Noth Poll cast one.

We forgot...

Regards, Kirk


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## mbsieg

I have some like new 3 band North pole ak sprockets


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## redsqwrl

300 H and H said:


> When you were here last week, I should have given you a new unused Noth Poll cast one.
> 
> We forgot...
> 
> Regards, Kirk



I gotta believe if i was solo I would have remembered.

Oh well, the tour was fascinating.


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## couchloafer

I have both two and three band to compare to. These are the thicker ones.


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## redsqwrl

Alright my ignorance and inexperience is going to come shining through....

in post 43 Jims sprockets look to be wide or chamfered where they meet the rubber drum.

Kevins CPST52 sprockets look flat as compared to the red one standing there.

I assume the little knobs are for alignment.

the three band sprockets look to be quite flat as well.

Question here:

Does the 3 band sprocket fit on the two band machines?

Does the rubber coated hub meet up with that raised area?

Does it need to.

I assumed the rubber drum with the spiral flute running through it was some sort of an attempt to create an ice breaker. 

Basically, are we just confused on a higher level or are we making progress.


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## JimVT

on the st4 two band the rubber drum in the center it held by clamping the two sprockets together and centered by the tabs on the sprockets
 the center rubber is like an ice breaker but isn't very efficient at times. later a ice scraper was put on to keep it clear.


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## jask

I am adding ice scrapers to my early machine ( ST193 - 1961 ) I have seen a few now where the internal drum section was cracked and repaired - obviously from ice building up..
I would also recommend having some work done on the assembly whenever you rebuild these- I have seen a few ( one that might be a low mile original unit ) that have a spot of brazing added on each of the inside face locating tabs where they touch the drum. This extra stiffening supports and protects that drum. and every one I have seen with cracked and repaired drums did not have this- I am speculating that the unsupported flexing of unwelded units, or uneven loading from ice buildup causes more stress ( and cracking )  than they were originally engineered for. 
Considering the intended use and very long service life of most of these machines I am really impressed that there are so many still out there, and in as good of condition as they are.


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## Sno-Surfer

I am also looking for a set of the bronze gears for the two band track. Lyndon pointed out that mine are hard steel and they will eat up my grousers. 

If anyone has a set or a lead, let me know. Thank you.


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## Snowcat Operations

Im looking for a set of the older style sprockets.  Anyone making them these days or have some NOS ones?


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## redsqwrl

OK, today was the day I went on a goose chase to follow some leads on patterns and casting the sprockets.

*What I know patterns:*
I can have a pattern on Match board, with Shift locks, created from my used ST-30A sprocket and a supplied, dimensioned drawing. If I want it 4 weeks it will be approx. $1600... If it is prepared as fill in work $1000.
He is willing to prepare the molds and sell the sprockets. on his dime.
He is willing to build a plug Mold, corrected for shrinkage. Labor to cast this way is prohibitive.
*Casting:*
Union Brass and aluminum foundry, will hand cast four sprockets off of my used sprocket corrected for shrinkage and built up to Approximate OEM dimensions.( his Time and material estimate) at least $500 for  molding plus $3.00 per pound for material (which he has in stock) I did not weigh my sprockets but the per lb price seems fair. this price is market driven...

cope and Drag Mold Is still time and material, but the hand molding process is non-existant. This is the $1600 mold that would be good for quite a while.

*Summary:*

I am going to go to another pattern maker tomorrow and price check the pattern maker quoted above.
we have three foundrys that will and can do this work.
we have at least six pattern shops within an hour.

What are your thoughts,...
Who else has an iron in the fire....

I am guessing that 12-16 sprockets would get sold quite fast based on the chatter here.


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## redsqwrl

Went to the second and third pattern maker Friday.. NOt good news.

$2000 for a loose mold. from A.H. patterns.

$3500 for a loose mold. From Prime patterns.

Both cheaper if i Can source a dimensioned drawing. I am going to bump this a few times before I contact the first pattern maker who is willing to do the cope and drag method for $1600

Basically if my math is correct the cost will be the roughly the same as J&T sprockets plus shipping except the sprockets will be full size not 25% shrunk.

Hopfully I can get some feedback sooner than later. as lead time is key to getting this rolling before any one is in a bind for this coming winter.

mIke


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## MNoutdoors RIP

Well I've run into a dead end up at the North Pole AK. But another member here was going to check with another foundry in the Northwest but have not heard anything from him in awhile. We certainly could do the drawing if we had a new one. We also could machine one from a blank of material but do not think it would be cost effective because so much of the blank would turn into chips.


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## 300 H and H

redsqwrl said:


> Basically if my math is correct the cost will be the roughly the same as J&T sprockets plus shipping except the sprockets will be full size not 25% shrunk.
> 
> mIke



SO my new J&T sprockets are undersized 25%?

Wow I could have had a V8

Thanks for the news?

Regards, Kirk


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## MNoutdoors RIP

300 H and H said:


> SO my new J&T sprockets are undersized 25%?
> 
> Wow I could have had a V8
> 
> Thanks for the news?
> 
> Regards, Kirk



I think he has the decimal in the wrong spot 2.5 % sounds about right


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## redsqwrl

the pattern makers state that 25% number, but I think that is the scale they select to dimesion their work. 

the foundry guy just said Oh yeah, it shrinks! and that if we loose or free molded the Already once before copied sprocket that the seven holes would not be able to be located on the tabs as they are located close to the edge already.
Copy of a copy would be bad.

I am going to sit tight and see what other options pop up.

was the drawing of the poly option that was shared earlier last year dimesioned?
Mike


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## Sno-Surfer

I'm still looking for a good set of bronze drive gears for the two band model. 
If anyone makes an order of new ones, I would like to get in on it. 
With what looks like two events going on this winter, I'd like to make sure things are ready to roll. 
Thanks!!


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## redsqwrl

Agreed. I am holding off till I get a chance to chat this up more.  Input from all parties is appreciated.

Mike


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## JimVT

the new sprockets I got came without holes. it  wasn't a big deal and easy to align and drill


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## Sno-Surfer

No holes are fine with me. Please keep me posted of any available sprockets. 
Thanks all and looking forward to another get together.


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## Snowcat Operations

I am researching some other type of material right now.  I will let you know here a bit later if we might have something available.


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## Snowcat Operations

OK here is what I need. I need a NOS or as close to New Old Stock Sprockets for the older style. I have a company that will produce them in a very stout and proven plastic type of material. SO who can send me one sprocket? We will use this as the base to get all of the dimensions from. I have a set of NOS newer style that I will use for those measurements. We will be able to provide sprockets as needed from here on out. Just need help getting one of the older style sprockets that is in great shape.


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## teledawg

Snowcat Operations said:


> OK here is what I need. I need a NOS or as close to New Old Stock Sprockets for the older style. I have a company that will produce them in a very stout and proven plastic type of material. SO who can send me one sprocket? We will use this as the base to get all of the dimensions from. I have a set of NOS newer style that I will use for those measurements. We will be able to provide sprockets as needed from here on out. Just need help getting one of the older style sprockets that is in great shape.



I have a set of 4 NOS ST-30A (old style) bronze drive sprockets on hand.


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## MNoutdoors RIP

Snowcat Operations said:


> OK here is what I need. I need a NOS or as close to New Old Stock Sprockets for the older style. I have a company that will produce them in a very stout and proven plastic type of material. SO who can send me one sprocket? We will use this as the base to get all of the dimensions from. I have a set of NOS newer style that I will use for those measurements. We will be able to provide sprockets as needed from here on out. Just need help getting one of the older style sprockets that is in great shape.



What is the material? We can produce also from plastic or sheet bronze but 
Sheet bronze would produce much waste. UHMW (ultra high molecular wear 
Plastic)is used in sprockets and we have used them in mill conveyors for years
With very good success it's just that the cross section of the snowtrac  sprocket 
Is very narrow and would develop a very high pressure and therefore be higher 
Wear on the plastic VS the bronze the bronze has proven it self


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## Snowcat Operations

I agree they would wear faster than NOS sprockets. But they would still work and would need to be replaced sooner than NOS sprockets. Either way it would be the answer for some of us who need to get on the trails even if it is 2 to 4 seasons before they needed to be replaced. Mine are completely used up. I need a set of something and suspect these would work great. Its a fix for some of us until a set of Bronze Sprockets can be made for mass production.


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## MNoutdoors RIP

Snowcat Operations said:


> I agree they would wear faster than NOS sprockets. But they would still work and would need to be replaced sooner than NOS sprockets. Either way it would be the answer for some of us who need to get on the trails even if it is 2 to 4 seasons before they needed to be replaced. Mine are completely used up. I need a set of something and suspect these would work great. Its a fix  some of us until a set of Bronze Sprockets can be made for mass production.



I guess if the price is real reasonable something to consider. But changing often 
It not a real fun project and Murfy's law always prevails when you need It the most and you are the farthest you could be from anything. Unlike the Kristi's 
They just break on the trailer so easy to wheel in the shop. or tent


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## 300 H and H

Snow Trac #268 in Wisconsin (Redsqurel ) came with poly plastic drivers on it. Redsquel ran them for I think 2 seasons. They worked well enough, and who knows how long they actually did last. Much quieter than the bronze gears.. Over time they did eventually break down however. Still better that sitting waiting by a bunch however. 

I am in Iowa and I have a new set of North Pole castings. I could put one out on loan. But Alaska is a long ways away if I had to come up there to get it back.. 

Regards, Kirk


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## redsqwrl

don Snow trac nome, DDS, knew of the build of my sprockets. they were made with a router. I have a spare set that came with the machine. I operate that machine year round. (in a kind loving way) I don't have anything bad to say about poly sprockets.

I welcome sprockets in any material.

Mike


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## JimVT

some of the liquid plastic they have at boing is as hard as soft steel. I wish I would have got the name of it. it would really be easier than casting with heat and may not shrink.
jim


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## 3512b

Steve at    CAC Alaska is very up to speed on what we need, he going to have a real top end product for us when he done. plus a couple of our guys will be putting a lot of hr on them this winter  to prove them.  

 we have a few leads on NOS sprocket here in Alaska so we are working on it,

 this is his web site

http://cacalaska.com/index.html


----------



## loggah

Steve,If all else fails for you guys i can get the foundry that i use here in Franklin to make those sprockets at a reasonable price, i have had a bunch of stuff made by them and great people to deal with. I picked up 2 new lombard steering wheels today cost me $75 each !!


----------



## nikos

redsqwrl said:


> don Snow trac nome, DDS, knew of the build of my sprockets. they were made with a router. I have a spare set that came with the machine. I operate that machine year round. (in a kind loving way) I don't have anything bad to say about poly sprockets.
> 
> *I welcome sprockets in any material.*
> 
> Mike



Hello everybody in the forum

In a visit in Athens last week, i went in Acropolis with my son and my wife. One of the most historical, archaeological, artistic and aesthetic sites in the city with the others exhibits and collections in museums and the Art galleries.

Anyway the main reason is that I found too many sprockets there in great shape.
*Heavy duty marbles sprockets in many dimensions.*
Too many modern constructors - sculptors and architects from Greece and all over the word, working there every day to rebuild of these stone marbles sculptures.

I didn't ask the price of this marble sprocket, but if some want for his Snowcat, i can deal it.

August..... September..... October..... November.. ..December.
 The winter is coming. 

Nikos


----------



## couchloafer

Sorry all I have been busy. I will try to get to the foundry next week and see what they say about the molds I have.


----------



## MNoutdoors RIP

couchloafer said:


> Sorry all I have been busy. I will try to get to the foundry next week and see what they say about the molds I have.



That would be great,
If we don't have to start over all the better


----------



## willd

Put me down for a set of the later model type if you can get this worked out.   For the right deal, I might buy 2 sets.


----------



## redsqwrl

couchloafer said:


> Sorry all I have been busy. I will try to get to the foundry next week and see what they say about the molds I have.



If they give you static or you don't have the time to deal with them.

Send them this way, I feel real good about the foundry (union Brass and aluminum) here in WI.

The pattern Guy, can rework anything they would need.

As boggie stated anything is better than starting over.

Just to recap, With a dimensioned drawing, a production grade mold was 1600.
 Mikes $.02


----------



## Sno-Surfer

Winter is coming. I'm getting nervous about finding a new set of sprockets before the snow flies. 
 Count me in as one that needs a set for the older two band style.


----------



## Snowcat Operations

couchloafer said:


> Sorry all I have been busy. I will try to get to the foundry next week and see what they say about the molds I have.


.  

 Excellent.  I also have a friend who will be getting a set of CAD drawings so we can produce the "plastic" ones.  Are these the molds Lyndon had made?


----------



## Snowcat Operations

The ones Lyndon produced were very beefy!


----------



## teledawg

Snowcat Operations said:


> .
> 
> Excellent. I also have a friend who will be getting a set of CAD drawings so we can produce the "plastic" ones. Are these the molds Lyndon had made?



Working on the layout now for the ST-30A ...


----------



## JimVT

did you put in the centering tabs for the st4 center drums?


----------



## teledawg

JimVT said:


> did you put in the centering tabs for the st4 center drums?



The initial idea is to make the tooth profile as thick as possible and cut a circular groove in the side of the sprocket for the drum to fit into instead of using the centering tabs. Will have to see how that works out on a prototype...


----------



## Sno-Surfer

Is anyone having any luck with getting new sprockets made yet? 
 I wouldn't mind doing some leg work if it will help. I'm near Portland and if I had a good sprocket I bet I could find a place to make some. But if others are already working on it, I'd rather go with that. 
 Winters real close now, I can feel it in the air. But I really need to get new sprockets before I feel comfortable taking out the snow trac for longer rides as my hard steel ones are wearing away my grousers. 
 Used, remanufactured, anything at this point would help. 

 Sprockets....anyone....two band style?


----------



## Cidertom

Bump.  any results to pass on?


----------



## 3512b

From what I am told the cad drawing are just about done will keep you posted
Thanks for the bump!


----------



## thumper

Found a forge that is going to make me the drive sprockets out of silicon bronze. They are going to produce 8 for me and was wondering how many more to make for the rest of the snow trac group. I have a brand new factory made drive that I am using as the timplete.


----------



## Sno-Surfer

I would like 4 for the 2 band model. Any idea of cost, timing etc? Thanks!!


----------



## Snowtrac Nome

thumper said:


> Found a forge that is going to make me the drive sprockets out of silicon bronze. They are going to produce 8 for me and was wondering how many more to make for the rest of the snow trac group. I have a brand new factory made drive that I am using as the timplete.


find out how much I also need 4 for the 2 band tracks


----------



## mbsieg

Price on 4 please, 2 band


----------



## thumper

As of right now they are going to produce them with the set up cost for $285.00 each with out the shipping included. Now saying that the cost would go down with more being made. The making of the sprockets takes about three weeks after they have the timplete built (2 weeks to produce at a one time expense). So the first batch being done at the earliest going forward would be about six weeks out. I am not here to make any money on this but just to help facilitate a need. I will not be buying sprockets for everybody but will give you the information to get them your selves. The more that is being made at one time the cost will drop. By how much depends on how many are being cast at one given time.


----------



## Cidertom

Out of all the "i know someone..." this seems to be the closest we have since Northpole closed shop.  Thank you Thumper.  I was hoping to keep it below $1K US for the set, and I do have some angst about making certain they will work (I have a 3 band).  But unless someone else can give a solid here they are...


----------



## willd

I have a 3 belt model.  If these sprockets would work, I'll buy a set.


----------



## redsqwrl

Thumper where are you, or the foundry (zip code is good enough) just kicking logistics.

I am another set, maybe two. , depends on shipping.

I am in 54130, the local non-ferrous foundry here, Union Brass, will hand mold four sprockets ($500) and pour for $3.00 per pound.

use that info to price check your guy.

FWIW "If I had a new OEM sprocket, I would have poured some by now. I visited a corn and bean farmer two times in the last 16 months and forgot to bring that damn sprocket home all three times."


----------



## MNoutdoors RIP

redsqwrl said:


> Thumper where are you, or the foundry (zip code is good enough) just kicking logistics.
> 
> I am another set, maybe two. , depends on shipping.
> 
> I am in 54130, the local non-ferrous foundry here, Union Brass, will hand mold four sprockets ($500) and pour for $3.00 per pound.
> 
> use that info to price check your guy.
> 
> FWIW "If I had a new OEM sprocket, I would have poured some by now. I visited a corn and bean farmer two times in the last 16 months and forgot to bring that damn sprocket home all three times."




Grey squirrel,(you are getting older )  I think 98011 zipcode will get you close


----------



## JimVT

I wouldn't drill the mounting holes in them till you mount them. it is easy to center and drill holes to fit your hubs. I been told that they are all slightly different.
jim


----------



## 300 H and H

redsqwrl said:


> Thumper where are you, or the foundry (zip code is good enough) just kicking logistics.
> 
> I am another set, maybe two. , depends on shipping.
> 
> I am in 54130, the local non-ferrous foundry here, Union Brass, will hand mold four sprockets ($500) and pour for $3.00 per pound.
> 
> use that info to price check your guy.
> 
> FWIW "If I had a new OEM sprocket, I would have poured some by now. I visited a corn and bean farmer two times in the last 16 months and forgot to bring that damn sprocket home all three times."




SO when can you find the time to head my way? I would meet you half way if you are going to "get her done" soon. Winter is coming fast.. Harvest is over so I can work around your schedule..


 Expect a phone call tonight. Time to get this show on the road!!

Regards, Kirk


----------



## thumper

Production Engineer

      Franklin Bronze Plaques                             
      4201 US 322 West
      Franklin, PA  16323  


Phone: 814-432-2230 ext. 101  tmotter@franklinbronzeplaques.com
Fax:       814-346-7047


----------



## 3512b

We are still working on ours


----------



## Sno-Surfer

Just wanted to bump this. Sounds like we are a couple months away from hopefully getting a set of these. 
I'd sure like to see pictures of them or a diagram of the drawing used (if there is one). My Snow Trac has a peculiar set up and want to also make sure they work. Fairly certain the standard two band set will work for me. 

There's snow on the hills and I'm ready to roll other than these sprockets. 

Let the fun begin!!


----------



## Sno-Surfer

This is what I have. It's some kind of aftermarket version that is just steel and too hard. I have disk brakes and a big wheel in the front but this is a two band machine.


----------



## nwerring

To bad the shipping cost might be to much from Norway to the US.
I just got this lot today. Made in Norway. Around $550.- for a set of 4.


----------



## 300 H and H

nwerring said:


> To bad the shipping cost might be to much from Norway to the US.
> I just got this lot today. Made in Norway. Around $550.- for a set of 4.



mwerring,

 Thanks for chiming in. Any one know how much shipping these would end up being? Could be faster and cheaper than a repop made here..

Any word on the Trellaborg small tires?


Just wondering..

Regards, Kirk


----------



## nwerring

I could check with the postoffice and DHL.
The small tires are being delivered in December, just before x-mas.


----------



## mbsieg

300 H and H said:


> mwerring,
> 
> Thanks for chiming in. Any one know how much shipping these would end up being? Could be faster and cheaper than a repop made here..
> 
> Any word on the Trellaborg small tires?
> 
> 
> Just wondering..
> 
> Regards, Kirk


I know not that much $$$ just had a 4 cyl turbo diesel chery engine shipped to me from china that was only 400$ it weighed 600lbs on a pallet. took 14 days to get here


----------



## Snowtrac Nome

I would guess as long as the shipment is under 70 pounds you can us mail them those are nice castings unfortunately they are for 3 band models


----------



## 300 H and H

Snowtrac Nome said:


> I would guess as long as the shipment is under 70 pounds you can us mail them those are nice castings unfortunately they are for 3 band models



Look closer Don and you will see there are sets for both two and three band machines there. 

Regards, Kirk


----------



## JimVT

300 H and H said:


> mwerring,
> 
> Thanks for chiming in. Any one know how much shipping these would end up being? Could be faster and cheaper than a repop made here..
> 
> Any word on the Trellaborg small tires?
> 
> 
> Just wondering..
> 
> Regards, Kirk


a dealer can order them . I was told les schwab has them .


----------



## Sno-Surfer

nwerring said:


> To bad the shipping cost might be to much from Norway to the US.
> I just got this lot today. Made in Norway. Around $550.- for a set of 4.



I would jump in on these too if we can figure out a way to ship them. Do you know how much a two band sprocket weighs? 
How many sets can you part with?

Thanks. Those look fantastic.


----------



## Sno-Surfer

Also curious. Are the two band teeth thinner than the three band models? It sorta looks that way in the photos.


----------



## willd

I'd probably take a full set for a 3 band trac.   Shipped to 89701 area.


----------



## 300 H and H

JimVT said:


> a dealer can order them . I was told les schwab has them .



Please be more specific. From what you post here, hard to tell, and many are wanting these parts, Name the dealer, phone # and name, if in fact these are able to be ordered. No one else here thinks they can be... 

Hearsay about les schwab, who ever that is just is confusing the issue. 


Regards, Kirk


----------



## 300 H and H

Be a bit patient about these sprockets from Norway. There is "movement" going on behind the scenes happening, and they may become available in the future, perhaps the near future. 

 Also in Wisconsin there will perhaps be some made up to... 

 We all need to get on the "same page" so to say to make this happen.

 Regards, Kirk


----------



## JimVT

kirk
you asked "Any word on the Trellaborg small tires?"

I was told they can be bought now but only at the trellaborg dealer.
most larger tire stores handle that brand.
I met a guy last week that ordered several from schwab

and it looks like Christer Morlind may have the bronze sprockets. http://www.klovsjo.com/snowtrac/
jim


----------



## Sno-Surfer

300 H and H said:


> Be a bit patient about these sprockets from Norway. There is "movement" going on behind the scenes happening, and they may become available in the future, perhaps the near future.
> 
> Also in Wisconsin there will perhaps be some made up to...
> 
> We all need to get on the "same page" so to say to make this happen.
> 
> Regards, Kirk




I know we have some folks working on this too and I'm glad we may have more than one option. Thank you all for putting the effort into these. I just keep raising my hand and waving it around when I hear of some available. 
Thanks all and just let me know when and where to send the check! 
We just got hammered with some snow in the upper elevations.


----------



## willd

Just checking in to see how things are going with this project.   Can't wait to see what you guys get going.


----------



## teledawg

willd said:


> Just checking in to see how things are going with this project.   Can't wait to see what you guys get going.



The design for the UHMW plastic ones is done and off to the plastics CNC shop for a quote. Here is the 3D CAD rendering of the design:


----------



## willd

What kind of life expectancy do you see possible from UHMW?  I know the stuff is super tough but I would like to use my cat in the sand too.


----------



## redsqwrl

Jim VT has a photo of the of the high hour plastic sprockets on my machine.. I have had that machine for 4-6 years. and it was run in summers in AK before coming to ID. it was in Idaho quite a while as well.

the speedo is only showing 1900 ish miles so reality is the amount of miles could be very low.

I am a fan of the plastic.

I would not hesitate on reinstalling them. they are much quieter..

Mike


----------



## JimVT




----------



## Beartooth

I'm with snowsurfer! looking forward to getting these or something on the snowtrac. It is ashame, as i have the tracks all apart too.


----------



## Cidertom

I can see where the plastic might work with the two band system where there is a drum to take the side loading.  I would worry about having the same type on a three band like mine where there is no drum.
 Still haven't seen price and delivery from a foundry for 4 sprockets for a 3 band.  Just a lot of maybe...

CT


----------



## Av8r3400

Just spit-balling here, but would a harder aluminum work, say a 6061 or something?

Or have them hard anodized?


----------



## Cidertom

Av8r3400 said:


> Just spit-balling here, but would a harder aluminum work, say a 6061 or something?
> 
> Or have them hard anodized?



I don't know, but like the uhmw plastic, if you were willing to trade years vs season, I would think it would work OK.  If I thought that sandcast playdough would work, I would be willing to give it a try.  I need /now/ and replace in couple of years OK, vs someday have "right parts".

Mine are almost sharp triangles
CT


----------



## 3512b

The cad drawing are at the steve's (CAC plastics )supplier they are find tuning the program now
So stay tune


----------



## Slinky Pickle

Just thought I would offer up some help to anyone looking for sprocket help.  I used to design sawmill sprockets for all sorts of chain pitches and sizes.  UHMW is an excellent material for sprockets especially if you back it up with a steel support plate.

 I built the sprockets for my Jeep tracks out of UHMW with a steel support hub.  To date, they have shown virtually zero where and are standing up great.  SnowTrac sprockets would obviously need to be much heavier than mine but the concept has worked on many sprockets I've had built over the years.

 Also, CNC machining is not really necessary if you can find a water jet cutter.  They can cut out a profile much quicker and cheaper than a milling machine with more than enough accuracy to do the job.






 Anyways, if anyone wants some sprocket patterns made just let me know.

 Here's a video of mine in action.

https://youtu.be/fHZTWdPJLdM

 SP


----------



## SnowTrac Hunter

Does anyone have a vendor and price for the 2 band sprockets? I would like to buy a set for my Snow Trac since the brass ones I currently have are worn out. Please post if you have the info. 
 Thanks,
 Joe


----------



## JimVT

if I were in need of sprockets I would contact  Christer Morlind.http://http://www.klovsjo.com/snowtrac/


----------



## willd

Any word on these yet?


----------



## Bombi1

I now have patterns for both types of ST4 sprockets.
Have been in contact with two foundries for cost estimates.
One wants around $300 and the other is about $350.
Those quotes are based on a set of four.
Larger quantity may bring it down some, but probably not much.
The foundries are in the Seattle area.


I am going to check with some others to see if they can do better.


----------



## redsqwrl

that is pretty good.

Thanks for digging in.


----------



## willd

I will take 5 sprockets for a 3 belt model as soon as you can get them, at either price. It costs more to ship them to the states than the price difference of getting them cast at either place.   If you want to start a thread just for the foundry production run. It would make it easy for you to get orders.  I can pay the foundry direct for mine and shipping if you PM me the info.  

Thanks.  Will.


----------



## Bombi1

Do you need the Old or newer style.
The hub that they mount to determines which type.
old #ST30A
Newer# ST50


----------



## willd

Pretty sure it's the newer style.  My machine is a 1968 or so model.  I have the 3 belt tracks with inboard brakes.

I tried to find pictures of the two different sprockets but I couldn't tonight.   Fairly certain last year I was told it needed the ST50's.


----------



## Snowtrac Nome

68  with 3 belts is a franken machine  3 belts were 73 or newer I would suggest putting up some pics


----------



## willd

Ok. I'll see what I can get done.


----------



## willd

See if this works.


----------



## 300 H and H

I think ID is simple..

AB Westermaskiner built machines are two band tracks and require ST30A sprockets.

Aktive ST4's are three band tacked, and require ST50 sprockets. 1970 was the year of transition, as that is when Aktive acquired the rights to manufacture the Snow Trac. 

If your track styles don't match this, then some were along the line, it was modified. Two band, require ST30A and three band ST50. 

Hope this helps.

Regards, Kirk


----------



## teledawg

willd said:


> See if this works.



Those are worn out ST-50s on a 3-band Aktiv.


----------



## willd

Then I'll take 6 sprockets, ST-50 style.  That will give me a spare pair.


----------



## Bombi1

Willd
I sent you a PM


----------



## Rbenjamin30

Hello - RBenjamin30 back still looking for bronze replacement drive sprockets (number ST52) for ST4 serial number 1962.  Need  a full set and would like to have a spare set.  Please let me know if the ST52s are still available.  Will pay whatever going rate is plus shipping. 

From my reading it appears that the ST50 and ST 52 are the same but would like to confirm.  

Also I have a set (2) of new ST30a sprockets if someone needs them.  Purchased them when I first bought machine but they will not fit my machine.   Can swap or sell.


----------



## Bombi1

RBen
ST52 is the correct number for the newer type.
Pattern is at foundry now to make one, to verify the dimensions.

I sent you a PM


----------



## Beartooth

rbenjamin, sent you a PM.

Doug


----------



## Bombi1

Bombi1 said:


> I now have patterns for both types of ST4 sprockets.
> Have been in contact with two foundries for cost estimates.
> One wants around $300 and the other is about $350.
> Those quotes are based on a set of four.
> Larger quantity may bring it down some, but probably not much.
> The foundries are in the Seattle area.
> 
> 
> I am going to check with some others to see if they can do better.



I reread this post.
Want to clarify that the prices they are giving me, is per sprocket.

Got one more quote and it was even more.
Hope to get a pretty firm cost soon.


----------



## redsqwrl

JimVT said:


>



With a line on new sprockets, I decided to stress my poly sprockets to failure. 
These are hand built (with a router) they have many moose hunts on them and much summer/ all season running in sand and heavy clay and rocks.

this is my parts machine, and purist please restrain from giving me the berries.  I needed to blow a little steam off and it was just the sno tracs turn... 

Enjoy, I did, the high pitched whine is being addressed next... that is the cooling fan trying to move air at 5600 to 6400 RPM.

Stock gearing, 1600 Dual port off of craigs list. I show this machine no love what so ever.  the working speedometer says 19- 20 MPH

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLzbV1JKZRw


----------



## 300 H and H

Nice job of driving, you hit nothing!! 

Just like last year, there is much more snow in my neighborhood than you have... 

Those poly gears are quiet, and do last a long time. Maybe not as long as the bronze alloy, but still good life..

 Not to mention the price is right!!!

 Regards, Kirk


----------



## redsqwrl

the photo above is what I was trying to fail.  I had read the Sprocket thread in great detail trying to get my head around the various comments about shrinkage, width and thickness ect.. yet every time I run this cat I look at those hammered sprockets and think to myself... ( well you are going to be walking one of these times)  so I pulled the sprocket off the machine over the weekend to see what and how the magic works. I found this. One guide that was getting eaten by a bolt. if you look up one post you can see the ends of the bolts unmolested.

I cut the excess bolt length off with a Blue wheel, and then ran it hard to see if the replaced guide had any gouging. I am happy to report the guide is fine.

With 6" of fresh snow today, I will schedule another test session and resume the flogging.... this time with a full tank of gas.

these plastic sprockets are just 1/2 in thick poly, with small spacer/ guide blocks behind them to center them in the hub. drum.  Just trying to harbor some low level knowledge into this thread to help archive the experience for future keepers of these ST-4'S


----------



## JimVT

your boggies should show sings of that guide.


----------



## redsqwrl

JimVT said:


> your boggies should show sings of that guide.



that is exactly my thought. If you peek at the bogie you can see in the photo there isn't a mark in it. I found it oddly surprising that the timing of the bolt only hit the one guide.

Coachloafer to the rescue again.


----------



## Kristi Kt-4

Wowzers, I think that you will win the drifting competition... I think you thought it was a rally car! I did like the video though. A Tucker is not meant for speed and a Kt-4 might do a barrel roll if I tried that. A Kt-3 would give you a run for your money but mine is currently trackless.  So.... it looks like you win 



redsqwrl said:


> With a line on new sprockets, I decided to stress my poly sprockets to failure.
> These are hand built (with a router) they have many moose hunts on them and much summer/ all season running in sand and heavy clay and rocks.
> 
> this is my parts machine, and purist please restrain from giving me the berries.  I needed to blow a little steam off and it was just the sno tracs turn...
> 
> Enjoy, I did, the high pitched whine is being addressed next... that is the cooling fan trying to move air at 5600 to 6400 RPM.
> 
> Stock gearing, 1600 Dual port off of craigs list. I show this machine no love what so ever.  the working speedometer says 19- 20 MPH
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLzbV1JKZRw


----------



## utahwilson

agree on the drifting.  I didn't know they went that fast.


----------



## Snowtrac Nome

not hard I drift through the streets of nome all the time I should video it some time things get real exiting when drifting the 2100


----------



## mbsieg

Snowtrac Nome said:


> not hard I drift through the streets of nome all the time I should video it some time things get real exiting when drifting the 2100


I can see the headlines for the new movie now!! "The fast and the furious 23" NOME DRIFT!!!! All you can Handle at 8mph!!!! Vin Diesel in his newest hit ever!!!


----------



## Snowtrac Nome

it may only be 8 mph in the 2100 but those j grousers are like ice skates when on ice. its not Vin Diesel, its Ford Dorset diesel


----------



## redsqwrl

Any news on the WA sprocket process?

the WI process is under way.

I will be pulling a copy sprocket soon.  Ill post here if I have success.


----------



## Bombi1

My foundry has both patterns and is going to make one of each. Am expecting to hear from him any day. They have been very busy, so it has taken longer than expected.


----------



## redsqwrl

Copy ST 30A sprocket was pulled Monday.

pattern maker corrected it for shrinkage in both the tabs and ears Tuesday.

Just got a call that 5 will be poured today.
Five more on Monday.

(these are the TWO BAND Sprockets)

if you in a bind send me a note. Ever since the Dairy queen run, My poly sprockets are skipping steady now on the right side. I could not wait. I need to use the machine to pull Ice houses off the lake.

Sturgeon spearing ends Sunday, fish houses have to be pulled off before 3/2

I got one yesterday, our warm weather and warm water temps are eating the ice from both sides.


----------



## 300 H and H

So what did this years fish weigh? 

Glad you got those sprockets getting poured. Just remember where you got the one you made the pattern from!! 

 Can't wait to see how they turn out. 

 Regards, Kirk


----------



## Bombi1

Finally got a sample of both sprockets cast. They turned out good.
Have a picture but could not figure out how to post it here.
Anyone interested in a set can PM me and I can email the picture
and we can go from there.

Thanks
John


----------



## SnowTrac Hunter

300 H&H had posted dimensions previously for sprockets. Neils sent me an STP file which I could open with Wedge, but without having a compatible version of AutoCAD I couldn't dimension. 

The dimensions that were posted in this thread were slightly incorrect, so I am trying to correct per layout. I am going to try and make a weekend trip to verify. Three hour drive and couple mile hike in to cabin. The dimensions below are what I have come up with so far. Please feel free to correct me if I am off base.

Outer Tooth Diameter - 17-1/4" (17.25")
Outer Tooth Radius - 8-5/8" (8.625")

Base Diameter - 15-3/8" (15.375")
Base Radius - 7-11/16" (7.6875")

Tooth Degrees - 90*, 77.1428571*, 51.4285714*, 25.7142857

Circle Circumference - 54.19247"
Tooth Center to Tooth Center - 3-7/8" minus (3.8708")(14 Teeth)
Tooth Tip Width - 1" (Need to Verify)
Space at Base - 1-1/2" (Need to Verify, May need to be 2" for grouser which would take out slope) 

Thickness - 1/2" to 1" UHMW depending on model. 

Hope this is helpful. I have an older two band model. I would like to start out with 1/2" and see if it is durable enough before I modify my sprocket to fit thicker UHMW. Prices of UHMW vary depending on location. I purchased a piece of 18" x 10' for $350 in Anchorage, Alaska. You may be able to find cheaper in the Lower 48.

Thanks,
Joe


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## SnowTrac Hunter

Dimensions will need to be modified from what was posted - 

Tooth Width - 3/4"
Tooth Space at lower radius - 1-7/8"
Mounting Hole radius - 5-7/8"
Mounting Hole Size - 1/2" for 3/8" bolt 
Inner Hole Radius - 5-1/8" (10-1/4" Diameter)

Will update picture of template when finished modifying for new dimensions.

Thanks for your patience,
Joe


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## Cidertom

Bombi1 said:


> Finally got a sample of both sprockets cast. They turned out good.
> Have a picture but could not figure out how to post it here.
> Anyone interested in a set can PM me and I can email the picture
> and we can go from there.
> 
> Thanks
> John



Back on the trail of sprockets.  Are these a send check, get sprocket item or still a one-by-one prototype?  

Or who has >right now< st50/52 3 band sprockets for sale or short turn around time.

CT


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## Cidertom

bump.


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## Bombi1

PM sent


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## Cidertom

New sprockets arrived to replace the slightly worn ones.

It appears the previous owner(s) never flipped them.

Thank you Bombi1


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## DAVENET

Holy cow.  Actually seeing a new one of those has been a long time coming.


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## 300 H and H

Yes it has. Some are being made out of UHMW plastic as well. They probably will not last as long, but will be quiet and easy on the grousers in the track.

Regards, Kirk


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## Cidertom

I really thought about using UHMW plastic.  If I had the older type, I probably would have gone that way.  I just didn't like the long  unsupported spokes of the ST52.  Thought about doing a hybrid, metal core and using the older style for the drive part.  Then thought my time would be better spent drinking beer, and not re-inventing the drive wheel.


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## JimVT

The bolt pattern very on the st4 and I'm curious if you need to redrill them.


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## Cidertom

They have no holes as yet.  Going to clamp the old to new and bore them.


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## Beartooth

Are the ST-30a two band being produced. I have two machines and would put UHMP on one and bronze on other for a test. Either way I need them.

Doug


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## Cidertom

send a PM to bombi1, but he may be slow to respond due to mother nature.


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## Cidertom

Got time to drill and mount the new sprockets.  They are thicker than the old ones.  Not enough to be an issue though. But the nylocks barely have enough stud. Going to go through the mounts this weekend and check bearings etc.


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## nikos

Cidertom

_Got time to drill and mount the new sprockets.  They are thicker than the old ones.  Not enough to be an issue though. But the nylocks barely have enough stud. Going to go through the mounts this weekend and check bearings etc._


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## Cidertom

finally back on


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## JimVT

nikos said:


> Cidertom
> 
> _Got time to drill and mount the new sprockets.  They are thicker than the old ones.  Not enough to be an issue though. But the nylocks barely have enough stud. Going to go through the mounts this weekend and check bearings etc._



I have a set of them that thick.


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## Cidertom

So are the thick ones due to copy of copy, or were there thick and thin ones from the factory?  My originals said st 52, but so did the new ones.

Would seem to me the thicker the better.  If they were steel, I would run a bead of wear material on them.  But the bronze is intended to be the wear point from the looks of it.

Then again, I doubt with current usage, that it will be my problem again.


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## JimVT

Found this in Norway


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## Cidertom

This design did away with my biggest concern of the spokes.  Have to see how it plays out.  The solid disk might trap too much snow / ice though.


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## SnowTrac Hunter

Outer Tooth Diameter - 17-1/4" (17.25")
Outer Tooth Radius - 8-5/8" (8.625")

Base Diameter - 15-3/8" (15.375")
Base Radius - 7-11/16" (7.6875")

Tooth Center to Tooth Center - 3-7/8" minus (3.8708")(14 Teeth/Lug)
Tooth Tip Width - 3/4" 
Space at Base - 2" 

Tooth Degrees - 90*, 77.1428571*, 51.4285714*, 25.7142857

Mounting Hole Radius - 5-7/8"
Mounting Hole Size - 1/2" 

Inner Hole Diameter - 10-1/4"
Inner Hole Radius - 5-1/8"


Circle Circumference - 54.19247"


Thickness - 1/2" to 1" UHMW depending on model. 

Sorry it took forever to post finished dimensions. Snow Trac was low on my priority list this year. 
Took about 3/4 day to router out seven sprockets when I finally got around to it.


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## Beartooth

I am in need of the two band sprokets. Any being made of available.

Doug


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## redsqwrl

Beartooth said:


> I am in need of the two band sprokets. Any being made of available.
> 
> Doug



My attempt to copy the north pole sprockets is not up to an acceptable standard. they are thin and labor intensive to cast.. without the proper draft they freeze and warp. they work, but I would not want to sell anything this poor.

I can't afford to continue to R/D the copy of a copy idea.

I have started a simple plywood pattern using the data above. When I go back to the foundry it will be with a 2 pc pattern that can be production pressed (molded) reducing my cost.

Don't wait on me for sprockets.


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## Beartooth

Weren't there some UHMP  being produced.

Doug


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## Sno-Surfer

Beartooth said:


> I am in need of the two band sprokets. Any being made of available.
> 
> Doug





I have a set of two band sprockets in good condtion if anyone is interested in them.


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## Cidertom

Surfers are a here-now.  I think Bombi1 had a pattern to cast the twoband as well, but you would need to contact him directly.


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## nwerring

Getting ready to try the new UHMW Sprocket. Looks ok, plenty of room left between the track rubber. The Sprocket is allmost twice as thick as the original ones. Hope they work ok...


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## JimVT

Were all looking forward to this. Thanks for sharing.
Jim


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## nwerring

JimVT said:


> Were all looking forward to this. Thanks for sharing.
> Jim



Been out for a short test. No problem at all. Almost no wear/contact marks. Should hold up at least as good as the original ones.


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## nikos

nwerring said:


> Been out for a short test. No problem at all. Almost no wear/contact marks. Should hold up at least as good as the original ones.



I am thinking

Its amazing how many original spare parts in the ST4 have improved by the ideas of owners, just using various types of equivalent materials.

Nikos.


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## luvthemvws

A thread brought back from the dead!
 Who is the current source of replacement, bronze Sprockets for the Snow Tracks?


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## Cidertom

I got mine from Bombi1 here on Forums.  I don't know if he is still doing them or not.  He had both patterns.  He is sometimes slow to respond though.



CT


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## ziggy

need a set really bad please help


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## Snowtrac Nome

I have the pattern to cut out the plastic ones for the 2 band track models.


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## ziggy

PLEASE sign me up need a set asap thanks any info on how to find some


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## NZsnowtrac

Hello everyone!

I am restoring a 1968 St4 with the 2 band track setup, it is using the St30 brass sprockets and they need to be replaced with 2 new sets.

I am happy and open to try the  UHMW plastic ones if somebody could point me in the right direction, any idea who can get them made??

Thanks very much!


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## Snowtrac Nome

I have the drawings for the uhmw ones give me a call at 907 434 0692 I can arrange to get you a tracing of my pattern.

Don


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## precision_motors

Hi Guys,  I am on the hunt for replacement ST30 sprockets as well.  Anybody out there with options can please contact me via this forum.  I am interested in original style but open to HD material as well.  Thanks!  CR


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## western auto

me too.....2 band full set needed


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## redsqwrl

precision_motors said:


> Hi Guys,  I am on the hunt for replacement ST30 sprockets as well.  Anybody out there with options can please contact me via this forum.  I am interested in original style but open to HD material as well.  Thanks!  CR



so here is what is going on in the midwest.

I am currently meeting with nonferrous foundries in the upper midwest.

the first quote was 3-500 per sprocket for the #18 pound ST52 or three band track sprockets
they can and do work on two band machines with some cleaning up.

the goal is to find a foundry that will welcome the work at a reasonable price. then machine the blanks to the unique two band fit. the steps are not difficult just time consuming.

I have a production grade cope and drag set up and the foundries around here have the proper flask and sand systems to use them.


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## western auto

call robert 928-919-0657 when 2 band are available to buy thx


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## Moosemeat

I'm just learning how to navigate through this site so excuse me if this is a duplicate of my earlier post. My Dad worked for Equipment Services back in the 70's. If I remember correctly they were re-facing the drive sprocket teeth at a local welding shop. I have a friend here in Homer that re-builds Boat Propellers, stainless and bronze both. They simply weld material onto the old prop and grind it back down. They look and perform like new. Anyone try this approach? There's also a specialty welding rod company that should have the right rod material.


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## 300 H and H

Moosemeat said:


> I'm just learning how to navigate through this site so excuse me if this is a duplicate of my earlier post. My Dad worked for Equipment Services back in the 70's. If I remember correctly they were re-facing the drive sprocket teeth at a local welding shop. I have a friend here in Homer that re-builds Boat Propellers, stainless and bronze both. They simply weld material onto the old prop and grind it back down. They look and perform like new. Anyone try this approach? There's also a specialty welding rod company that should have the right rod material.



Silicon Bronze rod would be the choice.

I think this could be done at a welding shop with some talent. If the sprockets are not wore out to badly. 

If my machine were sitting because of worn sprockets, I would seriously be giving it a try. 

Regards, Kirk


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## Bombi1

I am going to have some sprockets cast. Can do both types.
If you want a set. PM me. Thanks, John


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## Cidertom

I think the idea has merit. However, like the things I hard surface, it only works well if the parent part is only slightly worn.  Once real wear happens, the amount of fill is going to cause stress failures and catastrophic failure.  I've given thought to doing this once I have had enough wear to have flipped the sprockets and worn the reverse side.  But before the overall shape is gone.


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## Cidertom

Bombi1 said:


> I am going to have some sprockets cast. Can do both types.
> If you want a set. PM me. Thanks, John


The ones I got from Bombi1 have been great. No issues at all.


CT


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## Moosemeat

I've got one sprocket in hand and am heading to the prop/welding shop. Ill let you guys know how it turns out. I'm still looking for a recommendation on who to send my engine and transmission too if you've got any suggestions. Gotta say thanks to Steve in Anchorage for all the advise and hospitality. Like to hear from others in Alaska.


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## Cidertom

Moosemeat said:


> I'm still looking for a recommendation on who to send my engine and transmission too if you've got any suggestions..




https://www.germantransaxle.com/ is a great shop.  they have done a few st transmissions. And from what I can tell, are the shop that other places send transmissions to.   In Bend, Oregon.


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## Moosemeat

Cidertom said:


> https://www.germantransaxle.com/ is a great shop.  they have done a few st transmissions. And from what I can tell, are the shop that other places send transmissions to.   In Bend, Oregon.


Thanks for the reply. I just got through reading all the sprocket posts from the last 5 years. Sounds like some serious thought has gone into the acquisition of new ones. I've got a 2 band machine in re-build now. Plenty of time to look at all. I'll check on the plastic ones since I'm here in Alaska and try to get some from Bombi1 as well. Thanks again for the link.


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## precision_motors

Moosemeat said:


> Thanks for the reply. I just got through reading all the sprocket posts from the last 5 years. Sounds like some serious thought has gone into the acquisition of new ones. I've got a 2 band machine in re-build now. Plenty of time to look at all. I'll check on the plastic ones since I'm here in Alaska and try to get some from Bombi1 as well. Thanks again for the link.


Hi Guys,  I am expecting a set UHDM sprockets (early style) to be delivered this week for my 4 band trac-master .  I will see if I can get a pic posted before install.  I asked the machinist to crank out a few extra sets in case anyone is interested.  I had a hard time finding any options so decided to have a set of prototypes cut for mine.  Send me a pm if interested (prices are not confirmed yet but they at least an option).  Cheers,  CR


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## JimVT

pictures have been posted of the white st4 plastic sprockets.


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## georgeofdesert

Not BRONZE but this is the latest discussion I found.  Pics are of moly/nylon sprockets with history showing about 8 yrs. They were uselessly reversed by me when I got the machine. Had some life left in the teeth but the webs were worn below the height of the spiral rib on the snow guard, shifting the growser contact point off of the plastic and onto metal. The snow guard was getting pushed around in its own orbit.


The grey colored material is the nylon md placed on a bronze aftermarket sprocket.
The countersunk heads were placed on the inboard side to use the full thickness of the plastic and still clear the bearing housing pin. I am stealing this idea.
Whittiling  replacements out of hdpe. 
Thanks to all for the knowledge.


----------



## nwerring

Just thought I would write an update on how the UHMW sprockets I made are doing on the Snow Trac.

I had them made as thick as possible with the thought that a larger contact area would make them more resistant to wear. 
A problem appeared because they were actually a bit to wide, and the sprocket contact the rubber track and try to «jump» over the cleat. We are still trying to see what is going on, but one solution might be to make the sprockets tapered. We will try that for now and see if it helps. Another solution is to make them thinner, more like the original bronse ones..


----------



## georgeofdesert

Any chance of removing some plastic material from the mounting surface on the inside? If the grouser plates will allow it maybe then the sprockets can be run a little closer together.


----------



## 300 H and H

nwerring said:


> Just thought I would write an update on how the UHMW sprockets I made are doing on the Snow Trac.
> 
> I had them made as thick as possible with the thought that a larger contact area would make them more resistant to wear.
> A problem appeared because they were actually a bit to wide, and the sprocket contact the rubber track and try to «jump» over the cleat. We are still trying to see what is going on, but one solution might be to make the sprockets tapered. We will try that for now and see if it helps. Another solution is to make them thinner, more like the original bronse ones..


Just taper the tips of the teeth, and leave it wide at the web between them might work. Leaving the web wide I believe will make them last longer.
This year I installed the North Pole Alaska castings I have on mine. The worn ones show quite a bit of the web had worn down, not to the snow guard ring, but getting close.
The Alaska sprockets I think might well have been the last set they cast for a two band machine, as shortly there after they closed up shop. I have to wonder if anyone up in the great white North in Alaska has ever found the pattern they were using for making the molds. At one time I know there were some people looking for them.
Keep us posted on your progress...

Regards, Kirk


----------



## 3512b

300 H and H said:


> Just taper the tips of the teeth, and leave it wide at the web between them might work. Leaving the web wide I believe will make them last longer.
> This year I installed the North Pole Alaska castings I have on mine. The worn ones show quite a bit of the web had worn down, not to the snow guard ring, but getting close.
> The Alaska sprockets I think might well have been the last set they cast for a two band machine, as shortly there after they closed up shop. I have to wonder if anyone up in the great white North in Alaska has ever found the pattern they were using for making the molds. At one time I know there were some people looking for them.
> Keep us posted on your progress...
> 
> Regards, Kirk


I had a friend in Fairbanks look for the place and it closed up and could no info found. I be headed north in a couple of weeks to pick up my other Cat if you can pm the Adress I look around a bit more. From what I heard the casting were made from a sprocket and not a pattern so the sprocket pitch was a bit off. steve at CSI plastic in Wasilla can make em out of the plastic


----------



## 300 H and H

3512b said:


> I had a friend in Fairbanks look for the place and it closed up and could no info found. I be headed north in a couple of weeks to pick up my other Cat if you can pm the Adress I look around a bit more. From what I heard the casting were made from a sprocket and not a pattern so the sprocket pitch was a bit off. steve at CSI plastic in Wasilla can make em out of the plastic


The only issue I had was the inside tabs that hold snow guard were to small of a diameter to support the guard ring assembly.
This was cured by a rolling mill rolling a piece of steel just thick enough to fill the gap. No welding required, just a round spacer ring from a band of rolled steel.
I got my sprocket's nearly 10 years ago. Not sure I have the address any more unfortunately. A trip to a local coffee shop might yield that info from a North Pole resident.... 

Regards, Kirk


----------



## georgeofdesert

Can't be wider than the wheel guides. Mine were, slightly, for a while. . Pic shows "scallops" on web where the wheel guides ran. Also gnawed on the belt between the grousers.

Pic of the 4 sprockets impressed me with how the composite lube worked well on the teeth but the base material didn't like being hammered as  in the web area.

Mine is a 2 band, the I.D. of the guard ring 13 7/8?  Haven't seen that anywhere.


----------



## 300 H and H

georgeofdesert said:


> Can't be wider than the wheel guides. Mine were, slightly, for a while. . Pic shows "scallops" on web where the wheel guides ran. Also gnawed on the belt between the grousers.
> 
> Pic of the 4 sprockets impressed me with how the composite lube worked well on the teeth but the base material didn't like being hammered as  in the web area.
> 
> Mine is a 2 band, the I.D. of the guard ring 13 7/8?  Haven't seen that anywhere.




Are you fallowing the factory procedure for tensioning the tracks?
The tighter the tension the more the web between the teeth gets hammered....
Over tensioning could be the result. I run mine about 3/4" looser than the book recommends. 
The machine rolls much easier when on just the loose side..

Regards, Kirk


----------



## georgeofdesert

300 H and H said:


> Are you fallowing the factory procedure for tensioning the tracks?
> The tighter the tension the more the web between the teeth gets hammered....
> Over tensioning could be the result. I run mine about 3/4" looser than the book recommends.
> The machine rolls much easier when on just the loose side..
> 
> Regards, Kirk


I think I'm ok on the tension. But 3/4"  looser  sounds better. I'll follow you off spec.


----------



## 3512b

300 H and H said:


> The only issue I had was the inside tabs that hold snow guard were to small of a diameter to support the guard ring assembly.
> This was cured by a rolling mill rolling a piece of steel just thick enough to fill the gap. No welding required, just a round spacer ring from a band of rolled steel.
> I got my sprocket's nearly 10 years ago. Not sure I have the address any more unfortunately. A trip to a local coffee shop might yield that info from a North Pole resident....
> 
> Regards, Kirk


Coffey shop in Fairbanks... you spell that bar...
kid I worked with today grew up in Squarbanks.. he never heard of the place but I will look..


----------



## TRAILERKING

teledawg said:


> Working on the layout now for the ST-30A ...


Do you have that drawing done in DXF format?


----------



## ROGI

Howd


3512b said:


> I had a friend in Fairbanks look for the place and it closed up and could no info found. I be headed north in a couple of weeks to pick up my other Cat if you can pm the Adress I look around a bit more. From what I heard the casting were made from a sprocket and not a pattern so the sprocket pitch was a bit off. steve at CSI plastic in Wasilla can make em out of the plastic


----------



## ROGI

ROGI said:


> Howd


Howdy,  new owner here in Maine,  recently learned that I need scrapers and probably snow chutes.  While it’s all apart replacing the spacer between the sprockets I thought now would be a great time to get lucky, find new sprockets, and keep the old steel ones for just in case.  Is is ludicrous to ask around for new sprockets in the middle of snow season???

Here is my learning curve photo: (notice delaminating rubber from spacer)

thanks much for any advice..
Rogi


----------

