# Using leather cups in steering slave cylinders?



## Trackrig

My hunting partner, Mick, has a Go-Tract 1000 which is basically the same as a Nodwell 60.  GT-1000s have T16 rear ends.  This one was transformed into a GT-1200 because someone transplanted a Nodwell 110 rear end into it, which in itself is not a problem, actually a good move.  The GT uses hydraulic steering.  There's a hydraulic pump on the engine because it powered the telephone digger unit on the back of the GT which he obviously removed.  The hydraulics also provided power for the steering.



 He bought it two years ago back east and shipped it to Omak, WA where he lives.  Before he sent it up here, he went through it some.  I had them pull the planetaries apart to inspect the gears and brass pins.  They found one of the axles was twisted, but not broke.  I found it interesting that someone had managed to twist a 110 axle while it was installed in a  GT-1000.  

 As he was going through things, he rebuilt the steering brake slave cylinders on top of the rear end. When he went to buy the rebuild kit, he was told by the shop where that he bought the kit, that since he was using hydraulic steering, that he needed leather caps instead of the rubber ones he took out of the slave cylinders.


 We made it in on the Rex Trail to Fish Creek about 7 miles past the second river.  Then someplace on the way out to the highway he lost steering on one side. About five miles further he lost steering on the other side.  He still had power to move forward, but no steering.  We have not been into the slave cylinders yet, but I'd say the cups gave way.  The hydraulic system is still working and there's not hydraulic fluid leaks so at the moment the failure of the slave cylinders is the only guess.  And that leads us to the leather cups.


 I've never heard of leather cups before but Omak is farm and cattle country with a lot of machinery and obviously if the local stores are stocking leather cups, people must be using them.  But, having said that, the GT came with rubber seals and the steering was working.  Who knows how long they had been in there?  Again assuming the leather cups failed, I'm for going back to rubber cups and taking a couple of spare sets with us.


 What do you know about using leather cups with hydraulic oil vs standard rubber cups?


 Bill


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## redsqwrl

I have a 54' fordson major back hoe that *Has* to have leathers in it as well..

I am in year 21 with Rubber seals. I will call appleton HYdraulics to see what they sold me. I put them in there. 

I sure it is some kind of hybrid material that is called a leather, it sure felt like rubber to me.

fluid and material compatibility is important.

rememeber you can steer a cat manually if you need too.. Pipe wrenches pipes and even chains can get the leverage where you need it.


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## MNoutdoors RIP

I think I know where that came from...... 

On the GT1000  models they used the OC15 , with the top mount slaves .We ALWAYS use the rubber U cups in those. If the cup fails the oil dumps into the differential.The GT800 was the same basically as the FN60 they both used the T16


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## Trackrig

MNoutdoors said:


> I think I know where that came from......
> 
> On the GT1000 models they used the OC15 , with the top mount slaves .We ALWAYS use the rubber U cups in those. If the cup fails the oil dumps into the differential.The GT800 was the same basically as the FN60 they both used the T16



 Thanks for the information.  Now to get into the finer details - I've been told there is more than one type of rubber cups, which type depends on whether you're using brake fluid or hydraulic fluid.  Is there anything to that?  Do you have the correct rubber cup rebuild kits that you can sell?

 Thanks,
 Bill


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## MNoutdoors RIP

Viton or Buna is best for oil, These guys should have them IIRC they are 13/4” ? https://www.rocketseals.com/piston-cups/

I do not think I have any right now, but can look at the other warehouse next week. What happened to the crane that was on it?


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## Trackrig

They took the crane off in Omak.  It would have been nice for hoisting up moose while moose hunting, but there wouldn't have been room for anything else on the machine.  They took an insulated box off of a refrigerated delivery box truck and cut it down some to meet the height requirements for trucking it up through Canada.  It worked out very nice.  They have a truck to mount the crane on but they need to find a hydraulic pump to run it.

 We had a couple of other problems with it on the trail - a nice muddy 70 mile shake down cruise.

 The machine pulled to the left and had to be continuously corrected to the right about every 75 yards.  When I checked the tightness of the brake shoes, was not tight and I would have considered it to be too loose, but I didn't tighten it any considering it would turn to the left when you wanted it to.  After a while, I actually backed it off one complete turn but it didn't lesson the pull to the left.  The oil was changed in the rear end before the trip.  Cat TO4 oil was used.  Also, while looking for a simple answer to pulling to the left, I did count the number of cleats on both sides (several times) and they're the same.

 Thanks for the help,

 Bill


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## MNoutdoors RIP

Trackrig said:


> They took the crane off in Omak.  It would have been nice for hoisting up moose while moose hunting, but there wouldn't have been room for anything else on the machine.  They took an insulated box off of a refrigerated delivery box truck and cut it down some to meet the height requirements for trucking it up through Canada.  It worked out very nice.  They have a truck to mount the crane on but they need to find a hydraulic pump to run it.
> 
> We had a couple of other problems with it on the trail - a nice muddy 70 mile shake down cruise.
> 
> The machine pulled to the left and had to be continuously corrected to the right about every 75 yards.  When I checked the tightness of the brake shoes, was not tight and I would have considered it to be too loose, but I didn't tighten it any considering it would turn to the left when you wanted it to.  After a while, I actually backed it off one complete turn but it didn't lesson the pull to the left.  The oil was changed in the rear end before the trip.  Cat TO4 oil was used.  Also, while looking for a simple answer to pulling to the left, I did count the number of cleats on both sides (several times) and they're the same.
> 
> Thanks for the help,
> 
> Bill




Bill

Try this, find a level area, drive forward note drift, now drive in reverse and note if drift is different. Another thing is check track tightness one side to the other. 
Wheel bearing drag, even weak suspension one side will effect it. 

We really like moose hunting pictures. I’ll be up that way this summer


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## MNoutdoors RIP

Trackrig said:


> Thanks for the information.  Now to get into the finer details - I've been told there is more than one type of rubber cups, which type depends on whether you're using brake fluid or hydraulic fluid.  Is there anything to that?  Do you have the correct rubber cup rebuild kits that you can sell?
> 
> Thanks,
> Bill



Bill, EPDM rubber is what is used with the Dot 3,4 brake fluids it is not compatible with oil for very long. Dot 5 is different it is silicone fluid

Here is a link to a good reference for rubber resistance to chemicals 

http://mykin.com/rubber-chemical-resistance-chart


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## Trackrig

When you say to check the track tension to see if they're the same, do you mean having the top portion of the track the same height on both sides above the tires or stretched/tensioned out the same distance on the ground? 

 It's possible the belting on both sides was not replaced at the same time and or with belting from two different sources resulting in tracks of a slightly different length.  The machine is several hundred miles up the highway so I can't look at it right now.  I do remember tightening the tracks before last years trip.  In doing so I had them where they looked to have the same sag in the top of the tracks and by feel of lifting the top tracks they felt the same.  Maybe something changed when we actually got it on the trail.

 As for a difference in the suspension from one side to the other, it was walking beams and none of them appeared to be bent in my inspection of the machine when it got here.


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## Trackrig

I just bought 8 cups off of Rocket Seals a few minutes ago.  Their Tech people very good and easy to deal with.

 Thanks,
 Bill


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## MNoutdoors RIP

Were they reasonably priced ?


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## Trackrig

The standard price was $10.42 each, but I bought eight of them so he only charged me $9.27 each.


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