# Mattrack Truck Is Broken



## mtntopper

Today I was greasing the mattracks on the F250 and found a broken idler wheel bracket. This is the 150M1A2 model track set made for up to 12,500 GVW vehicles. They are made mostly of aluminum including the main frame supports and other parts. I ordered the broken bracket replacement and the nylon inner bushing for a total cost just slightly under $200.00 for both. Shipping 2nd day UPS so I should have it back in the snow and fixed by the weekend. I have no idea why it broke as I have been very careful with these and try not to abuse them. It may of been cracked slightly when I got them from the prior owner. That is all the damages we have had on these so far this winter. We will replace some idlers and check the tracks over througly at the end of snow/mud season and reinstall the regular wheels. We average about 18 miles per week of use to date since early January.


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## Mainer

So, now out of 3 people I know with Mattracks... 3 have broken, two broke twice.  Greeeeeat quality!  Greeeeat engineering!


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## mtntopper

Mainer said:


> So, now out of 3 people I know with Mattracks... 3 have broken, two broke twice. Greeeeeat quality! Greeeeat engineering!


 
What happened to the others? What model and usage factored into the problems? Facts to determine actual problems are needed. Did they lack in maintenance or were they abused in some way? I would not jump on the design until we know the facts behind why they failed. Mechanical man made things that are used have a tendency to break. I am not disappointed in mine. I believe if anything Mattracks are over engineering this product to make it stronger and last longer. Sh!t happens! My set of mattracks were used by the prior owner very hard and were one year old when I got them. I know they were used hard as he bought a snow cat from me for replacement as the mattracks would not do what he needed to do. 

For every hour of operation of a snow cat you need to plan on spending at least 15 minutes for upkeep and maintenance to stay on top of it. Some people will say more is required and I will not disagree as I do believe operating conditions will dictate maintenance required. I group most of my maintenance into blocks where the cat is worked on for several days or weeks in getting it ready for extended winter operation with minimum downtime during the winter season.


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## GYPSY

MTNTOPPER
Looking at the 2nd picture it appears that the inside flange of the side frame is not continuous.  This allows the side frame a weaker place to bend or flex between the flange end and the tube the shaft goes thru.  Alum. doesn't like to bend much or often before it cracks.  The bottom of the outer frame appears to have a noncontinuous bottom flange also.  These alum. frames would be expected to fail from repeated side loading.
Think about the side load imparted to both the front and rear frames when turning.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Nice looking outfit.


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## Thiokol2track

Our  FIRST problems happened on our Kubota RTV1100 when the nut on the driver side front loosened up and it wiped the bearings out with just 30 hours on them...But Mattracks gave us the parts to fix them.


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## Thiokol2track

Our SECOND problem is the  3/8" bolts on the large idler wheel are sheering off, And sending the connecting link into the aluminum drive sprocket. rear tracks this is the rear idler, front tracks the front idler.  This is the new m3 version track system. the" lite foot "used to be one piece.  Mattracks sent parts, but no solution to the problem yet. The other three tracks are doing this too, as I took the bolts out and they are all bent.


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## mtntopper

The outer bracket is stronger the way it is designed and made. The inner one that is cracked has a cut out to allow clearance for the main bracket and pivot movement. I can probably continue to run it and it will only break but not actually fall off. It will load the other side and possibly make it fail sooner. The front tracks on the truck going down hill or turning do take much of the load and you have to be careful as they will try to dive in and the weight of the vehicle is mostly transfered to the front tracks with a long wheel base truck like mine. Thanks Gypsy for your comments as they do parallel mine on what is probably happening to cause the failure.


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## mtntopper

Using a drag is putting a lot of stress on the track system. What does Mattracks say about warranty when using the drag? Again these are designed around a vehicle and I doubt if Mattracks ever considers the added forces of a drag and in my the hard packed snow drifts, rocks and other non standard operating obstacles encountered daily. I know the prior owner of my track system was stuck and spun the tracks while sitting at a sharp side angle. Mattracks are not good in side hill situations and they instruct you to not turn the tracks against the slide if at all possible because of the stress exerted on the track frame assemblies.

They are not perfect but a good choice for some applications.


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## Thiokol2track

I agree it does , but...we explained to mattracks what we wanted to do, and they advised these new m3 design tracks,which are the ones we purchased thru a state grant. The drag is only 460 lbs. and  you can pull the tongue around by hand . The problems we are seeing is nothing strange to mattracks ,so they have seen these things happening before.   
  If sidehills and snowdrifts are a problem for these , then where should you use them? maybe ice fishing or something? I know this doesnt compare to a snowcat but I think people think they should be as good as one and its never going to be.period.


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## mtntopper

Thiokol2track said:


> I agree it does , but...we explained to mattracks what we wanted to do, and they advised these new m3 design tracks,which are the ones we purchased thru a state grant. The drag is only 460 lbs. and you can pull the tongue around by hand . The problems we are seeing is nothing strange to mattracks ,so they have seen these things happening before.
> If sidehills and snowdrifts are a problem for these , then where should you use them? maybe ice fishing or something? I know this doesnt compare to a snowcat but I think people think they should be as good as one and its never going to be.period.


 
What does the drag weigh when loaded with wet sloppy snow? It will weigh considerably more and be harder on the track system. I do not see it as a suitable platform for grooming trails, but I do not know what your club expects. I would not even use a Imp or small snow cat unless forced into that as a trail groomer. He!! I can stick a Tucker Terra while just blading a trail in preparation to grooming it.   

I can utilize my Mattracks as I have snow cats to keep a trail packed. The mattrack truck is used by the wife alone when she goes to town and she likes them. Usually, once weekly I will run the snow cat out to the vehicle parking lot area to pack the trail for the mattracks vehicle or after any major storm. The mattracks are fast, can run on pavement and work very good if you keep them on a trail that is packed and has a base. I would say they will go through about 30 inches of snow max if loose and powdery. If you fall through the base pack, you are screwed and in trouble. I carry 4 or 5 eight foot 2X6's in the box so I can ramp out of a hole if I ever get swallowed. So far this has been strictly preventive measures but I am sure sometime I will find the bottomless hole that will try to swallow the F250....


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## Thiokol2track

mtntopper said:


> What does the drag weigh when loaded with wet sloppy snow? It will weigh considerably more and be harder on the track system. I do not see it as a suitable platform for grooming trails, but I do not know what your club expects. I would not even use a Imp or small snow cat unless forced into that as a trail groomer. He!! I can stick a Tucker Terra while just blading a trail in preparation to grooming it.
> 
> I can utilize my Mattracks as I have snow cats to keep a trail packed. The mattrack truck is used by the wife alone when she goes to town and she likes them. Usually, once weekly I will run the snow cat out to the vehicle parking lot area to pack the trail for the mattracks vehicle or after any major storm. The mattracks are fast, can run on pavement and work very good if you keep them on a trail that is packed and has a base. I would say they will go through about 30 inches of snow max if loose and powdery. If you fall through the base pack, you are screwed and in trouble. I carry 4 or 5 eight foot 2X6's in the box so I can ramp out of a hole if I ever get swallowed. So far this has been strictly preventive measures but I am sure sometime I will find the bottomless hole that will try to swallow the F250....



 Mtntopper,  I cant agree more that this should not be for trail grooming, and it was supposed to be more for "trail maintenence" . .I keep telling these guys its not a groomer!!!   And now two neighboring clubs want to get them as "main groomers"  ...bad idea!  Also they are grooming with imps, well at least one is a super imp, that ones going strong now for 10 years!


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## mtntopper

I was spoiled when grooming as I ran a Pisten Bully with the big Mercedes diesel engine so I equate that as what should be pulling a drag and grooming trails. In two years of dragging a drag around behind me at night I was never as stuck as this season when blading for a trail with no drag behind that the Tucker Terra went looking for China. With the PB I could always slowly inch my way back to safety with the drag even on the back. With the Tucker get your shovels out and get ready for a battle as it is going in deeper with the crab steering before it gets out...


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## Mainer

mtntopper said:


> What happened to the others? What model and usage factored into the problems? Facts to determine actual problems are needed. Did they lack in maintenance or were they abused in some way? I would not jump on the design until we know the facts behind why they failed. Mechanical man made things that are used have a tendency to break. I am not disappointed in mine. I believe if anything Mattracks are over engineering this product to make it ....



The other two that I know were both groomer-useage.  One has already been described by T2T.... the other is a set of Mattracks that were the heaviest duty set that they manufacture for tractors.  They were wildly expensive and any tractor application (baring pull-off contests), would most likely require dragging something very heavy around...with potentially high drag from friction (ie, tiling earth, etc.).  So, a drag weighing 450 lbs or let's say 800 lbs only has so much actual force given that it's sliding on snow...so 450 lbs turns into some small amount such as what T2T described as being able to pull it around lightly.  So, then add in friction when the thing is dragging through snow...so there's more weight on top... let's say it's 800 lbs... 800 lbs of vertical force over relatively well-groomed trail could turn into ... 200 lbs of horizontal force when sliding over snow...then over bumpy snow add some additional friction, etc...

My point is that if I drop a set of Mattracks on a Suzui samurai lightweight mini-SUV and also put that set onto a F250 then the difference in natural weight/wear due to one light and one heavy vehicle is greater than pulling a drag over snow... also they have different units for just that...heavy vehicles but still F250 to samurai falls into a common class of theirs....

But, all that stuff aside...for the cash that these things are... the amount of cash you could buy a LMC1200 for... you shoudl be able to pull a drag over snow.  To the point of being able to take these things and drive on pavement... taking corners, etc.. on pavement should put quite a bit of stress on them so it still is surprisng that a drag could shred these things.  It makes me think that they ARE NOT over engineered to a very significant degree...

But there is also a big difference between the failure of metal structure, wheels/rollers/spring, and rubber belts.... so belts should first go if regularly/consistently overloaded by pulling something heavy...but it should be an extreme situation when metal failure occurs.

Anyway, lots of unknowns but for the money??? It seems they should last a heck of a lot longer w/o major structural failure.  Just a cent or maybe 1.5 cents.


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## fogtender

There was a couple of sets up on the Colville River that had issues of breaking and throwing tracks, and they were having a dicken's of a time getting the factory to stand behind them.  That was a big factor of why I didnt' get the dealership for them when I was entertaining the idea a few years ago.

That and they don't want to protect the dealership area.  I was suppose to lay out $125,000.00 in inventory, but another dealer could be set up next door.  Not a very good business prospect in my book...  In Alaska we have 650,000+- people... big area with nobody here, that isn't a very big market share for four or five dealers that get hoodwinked into laying out that kind of cash.  At best, if there was only "one" dealer in the State, they could be expected to sell about five to ten sets, which may be a bit high.


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## fogtender

There was a couple of sets up on the Colville River that had issues of breaking and throwing tracks, and they were having a dicken's of a time getting the factory to stand behind them. That was a big factor of why I didnt' get the dealership for them when I was entertaining the idea a few years ago.

That and they don't want to protect the dealership area. I was suppose to lay out $125,000.00 in inventory, but another dealer could be set up next door. Not a very good business prospect in my book... In Alaska we have 650,000+- people... big area with nobody here, that isn't a very big market share for four or five dealers that get hoodwinked into laying out that kind of cash. At best, if there was only "one" dealer in the State, they could be expected to sell about five to ten sets, which may be a bit high.


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