# Enjoy your circle jerk - cda



## cdajen

Almost none of you are interested in an intellectually honest, fact based debate.  You're interesting in make claims about what "liberals" do. You're interested in making unkind comments and assertions about my character, my honesty and my belief system. You're interested in "rounding up" people you disagree with and dismissing out of hand opinions that are not identical to yours. You should be embarrassed. 

You present a cross section of very UnAmerican, unpleasant, and close minded people who will not listen to reason or consider the opinions of someone who doesn't agree with them. Several people here, I'll redact their names have sent me messages like this:

"What's going on here? 

I've been on this board since it started way back when and I've never seen a new member or any other member subjected to the hostility and just plain bad manners that you have experienced. It makes me uncomfortable to say the least. 

I've seen people get into it and the personal insults start to fly before the mods shut it down and ban them but I don't think that I've ever seen the "ugliness" that you've been subjected to. To be honest, I don't understand it. 

I feel as I should apologize on their and the board's behalf but that's not the answer to the problem either. I'm sorry, I don't know what to say or think. Hang in there and things may subside but I would understand if you packed your sack and left."

And this
"I'm sorry. I don't know why these people can't have a discussion. I'm speechless at how they have piled on you. The bigotry displayed by some here is beyond comprehension."

Thank you for those messages. I hope that you'll share your opinions on your fellow forum members behavior, with those exhibiting the least kind attitudes. 

I know a circle jerk when I see one. Questioning my gender, my honesty, my patriotism, my IQ, etc.. isn't nice. Nor is it in line with your professed "conservative" ideals. 

I don't like to admit defeat, but You Guys Win. This place is toxic. I gave it my best effort, but I'm not going to come to a forum hoping for a distraction from worrying about my mom, only to subject myself to mean spirited people who take so much pleasure in patting one another on the back insulting a person trying to join their group.  

I donated to this site, so I won't feel bad for wasting your time. 

I wish you all the best. 
Jennifer


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## Kane

Very well.  Is there a another site you would recommend where folks are more "civil"?  It appears you came here from your last home board cold turkey.


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## FrancSevin

Wow, I thought we posted some facts.  I know I did.
Perhaps too many?
Perhaps too direct?
Perhaps too real?l

Sorry to see you go Jen. really.

But birds should flock where they are happy. 

Though saddened by your leaving I appreciate your sacrifice here in making us no longer responsiblefor your pain.


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## jpr62902

cdajen said:


> Almost none of you are interested in an intellectually honest, fact based debate. You're interesting in make claims about what "liberals" do. You're interested in making unkind comments and assertions about my character, my honesty and my belief system. You're interested in "rounding up" people you disagree with and dismissing out of hand opinions that are not identical to yours. You should be embarrassed.
> 
> You present a cross section of very UnAmerican, unpleasant, and close minded people who will not listen to reason or consider the opinions of someone who doesn't agree with them. Several people here, I'll redact their names have sent me messages like this:
> 
> "What's going on here?
> 
> I've been on this board since it started way back when and I've never seen a new member or any other member subjected to the hostility and just plain bad manners that you have experienced. It makes me uncomfortable to say the least.
> 
> I've seen people get into it and the personal insults start to fly before the mods shut it down and ban them but I don't think that I've ever seen the "ugliness" that you've been subjected to. To be honest, I don't understand it.
> 
> I feel as I should apologize on their and the board's behalf but that's not the answer to the problem either. I'm sorry, I don't know what to say or think. Hang in there and things may subside but I would understand if you packed your sack and left."
> 
> And this
> "I'm sorry. I don't know why these people can't have a discussion. I'm speechless at how they have piled on you. The bigotry displayed by some here is beyond comprehension."
> 
> Thank you for those messages. I hope that you'll share your opinions on your fellow forum members behavior, with those exhibiting the least kind attitudes.
> 
> I know a circle jerk when I see one. Questioning my gender, my honesty, my patriotism, my IQ, etc.. isn't nice. Nor is it in line with your professed "conservative" ideals.
> 
> I don't like to admit defeat, but You Guys Win. This place is toxic. I gave it my best effort, but I'm not going to come to a forum hoping for a distraction from worrying about my mom, only to subject myself to mean spirited people who take so much pleasure in patting one another on the back insulting a person trying to join their group.
> 
> I donated to this site, so I won't feel bad for wasting your time.
> 
> I wish you all the best.
> Jennifer


 
Jennifer, I think you should reconsider.  I agree with those pm's that you refer to here and would offer this: don't let the handful who have treated you so poorly drag you down or chase you away.  There are lots more folks around here who are interested in legitimate discussion versus the "circle jerk" you're lamenting.


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## muleman RIP

Gee, I feel bad that you drug my "rounding up" remark into this. NOT! If you are going to let one comment like that upset you, I feel sorry for you.


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## mak2

It happens every single time someone not in lock step with the far right shows up here.  Everytime.  Why dont you mods do something about it?  Oh wait, some of the mods (not all) are the worst of the bunch.  She is right, no outside thought is tolerated here.





jpr62902 said:


> Jennifer, I think you should reconsider.  I agree with those pm's that you refer to here and would offer this: don't let the handful who have treated you so poorly drag you down or chase you away.  There are lots more folks around here who are interested in legitimate discussion versus the "circle jerk" you're lamenting.


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## cdajen

FrancSevin said:


> Wow, I thought we posted some facts.  I know I did.
> Perhaps too many?
> Perhaps too direct?
> Perhaps too real?l
> 
> Sorry to see you go Jen. really.
> 
> But birds should flock where they are happy.
> 
> Though saddened by your leaving I appreciate your sacrifice here in making us no longer responsiblefor your pain.



The only thing I feel you're responsible for, are your words an actions. I don't hold anyone accountable for mine.


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## Kane

Seriously, sorry to see you go, but seriously _do _hope you spring for the twelve bucks when 2016 gets to Montana.  Being open minded and all.

All the best.  Vote early and vote often.
.


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## SShepherd

hmm, I've not seen alot of references to back up these "facts" you keep speaking of.


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## DaveNay




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## mak2

Not much to see here Dave, strictly routine.


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## jpr62902

mak2 said:


> It happens every single time someone not in lock step with the far right shows up here. Everytime. Why dont you mods do something about it? Oh wait, some of the mods (not all) are the worst of the bunch. She is right, no outside thought is tolerated here.


 
Moderators aren't baby sitters.  And besides, isn't your presence here proof that FF supports differing points of view?


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## DaveNay

mak2 said:


> Not much to see here Dave, strictly routine.



Yes sir! Right away sir! Never mind sir!


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## pirate_girl

Jennifer,
Please don't go.


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## Big Dog

Off to the Koz I guess ........... I don't know about anyone else but go to a left leaning site and we're pretty tame. Now coming into FF cold turkey is tough. We've re-hashed so many thing and facts, figures, and links have flown around that everyone has absorbed and some (and I believe rightfully) don't want to repost over and over again. Most of us know where the statement comes from or has absorbed an opinion on the members statement.

As admin (UE I might add so I've been on a lot lately) I see a lot of statements backed with links, actually overwhelmingly. You can take them for what there worth, hell even I avoid Fox news links for the shit it gets. 

As a new member, especially in the political D&D, you need to be ready with an explanation to a statement you make especially if it's stated as the truth, especially if it hasn't been already addressed here. Failure to do so is going to get you overrun. The occasional humor doesn't apply IMO.

Continuing to say it ain't or is so, especially when ask to back it up, ain't gonna cut it. Sorry to see you take the exit approach and not dig in!


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## mak2

It just proves I am a glutton for punishment.  What are moderaters?  You guys just let the uber right wing group around here run everyone off that shows up that has some other thoughts, everytime.  How can you possibly think this site supports differing points of view?  Come on man, it is your site, I dont care if you want to have a uber right wing site, just say so, dont pretend.  





jpr62902 said:


> Moderators aren't baby sitters.  And besides, isn't your presence here proof that FF supports differing points of view?


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## jpr62902

mak2 said:


> It just proves I am a glutton for punishment. What are moderaters? You guys just let the uber right wing group around here run everyone off that shows up that has some other thoughts, everytime. How can you possibly think this site supports differing points of view? Come on man, it is your site, I dont care if you want to have a uber right wing site, just say so, dont pretend.


 
C'mon mak.  Admit it.  You have a lot of fun here.


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## tiredretired

Actually, it is Bush's fault. 

Me?  I'm a dick, I admit it.  Or as you are fond of calling me,  ASSHOLE.   But Bill(Muley) pissing you off?  Seriously?  Bill?  Have a nice life lady.  

TTFN


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## Kane

Big Dog said:


> Continuing to say it ain't or is so, especially when ask to back it up, ain't gonna cut it. Sorry to see you take the exit approach and not dig in!


What he said.


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## Big Dog

mak2 said:


> It just proves I am a glutton for punishment.  What are moderaters?  You guys just let the uber right wing group around here run everyone off that shows up that has some other thoughts, everytime.  How can you possibly think this site supports differing points of view?  Come on man, it is your site, I dont care if you want to have a uber right wing site, just say so, dont pretend.



Frankly mak it is because the members you speak of are more prepared for the debate.


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## FrancSevin

mak2 said:


> It happens every single time someone not in lock step with the far right shows up here. Everytime. Why dont you mods do something about it? Oh wait, some of the mods (not all) are the worst of the bunch. She is right, no outside thought is tolerated here.


 
POLITICAL DEBATE FORUM
Sign on the door says _discussions can get heated here._

Why do the MODS have to do anything?

Put some big boy pants on.


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## Big Dog

FrancSevin said:


> POLITICAL DEBATE FORUM
> Sign on the door says _discussions can get heated here._
> 
> Why do the MODS have to do anything?



 .............. Ta Da ................ boom!!!


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## Kane

Seems to me there are at least three avowed liberals here (and several still in the closet) and we all coexist with fact-minded rancor.  If you are feeling ganged-up upon, gang up with your liberal brethren (sisters if you must) and collude.

Safety in numbers.
.


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## mak2

Yea, I do.





jpr62902 said:


> C'mon mak.  Admit it.  You have a lot of fun here.


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## tiredretired

FrancSevin said:


> POLITICAL DEBATE FORUM
> Sign on the door says _discussions can get heated here._
> 
> Why do the MODS have to do anything?
> 
> Put some big boy pants on.



Amen bro.



mak2 said:


> Yea, I do.



We love you man!


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## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Nothing in this thread is surprising to me.


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## Kane

geeez, jen.  I could wander onto a liberal site and get called an ignorant, bigoted old white guy red neck all day long.  Would it make me cry?  No.   Would I stick with my facts?  Yes.  Would I still try to convert a few more libs?  Yes.

Don't go.  Whom else would we have to play with besides mak2 and joec?
.


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## DaveNay

Kane said:


> geeez, jen.  I could wander onto a liberal site and get called an ignorant, bigoted old white guy red neck all day long.  Would it make me cry?  No.   Would I stick with my facts?  Yes.  Would I still try to convert a few more libs?  Yes.



YOU'RE WHITE?!?!?!?


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## FrancSevin

DaveNay said:


> YOU'RE WHITE?!?!?!?


 
On the outside maybe.

But inside he is a black hearted evil capitalist that thinks Thomas Jefferson and his friends were the good guys!


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## grizzer

Is this the poster that called me crazy?

That made me feel so pretty pretty 

http://www.funonthenet.in/content/view/219/31/ click on the green in the video box.

PG & JPR go get her & bring her back I like being pretty


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## mak2

Big Dog said:


> Frankly mak it is because the members you speak of are more prepared for the debate.



BD seriously I think this is the problem around here.  you guys just agree with the uberright wingers so you think they are smart and right.  Anyone that disagrees are stupid and uninformed, cause if they werent, they would of course agree with you,  The libs never leave because of the debate, it is the verbal abuse.  The only reason I hang around is I need abuse, I have been married to 2 redheads.

Like I said I dont care, but if you were right at least one person besides me would have hung around. Not everyone that disagrees with the far right wingers are stupid, ignorant, lazy, on welfare or what ever.  Maybe they are well informed smart people that disagree with you.


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## Glink

mak2 said:


> The only reason I hang around is I need abuse, I have been married to 2 redheads.



Did they have blue eyes?


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## nixon

Glink said:


> Did they have blue eyes?



And at the same time!? ......


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## mak2

eyes?  oh yea, one did, the other is green.  





Glink said:


> Did they have blue eyes?


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## SShepherd

mak2 said:


> BD seriously I think this is the problem around here. you guys just agree with the uberright wingers so you think they are smart and right.* Anyone that disagrees are stupid and uninformed, cause if they werent, they would of course agree with you, The libs never leave because of the debate, it is the verbal abuse*. The only reason I hang around is I need abuse, I have been married to 2 redheads.
> 
> Like I said I dont care, but if you were right at least one person besides me would have hung around. Not everyone that disagrees with the far right wingers are stupid, ignorant, lazy, on welfare or what ever. Maybe they are well informed smart people that disagree with you.


 
are you F'ing kidding me ? Do I really need to go through your posts in that last 24hrs and list your posts, doing exactly what you claim everyone elses is doing ?


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## mak2

Yea, why dont you?  





SShepherd said:


> are you F'ing kidding me ? Do I really need to go through your posts in that last 24hrs and list your posts, doing exactly what you claim everyone elses is doing ?


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## Big Dog

Hey mak, check out MSNBC's Morning Joe blog if you wanna see verbal abuse by liberals. It's beyond ridiculous! I'm just like you over there only I'm not loved like you are here!


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## mak2

I cant get it to open, I will check it out tonight.  





Big Dog said:


> Hey mak, check out MSNBC's Morning Joe blog if you wanna see verbal abuse by liberals. It's beyond ridiculous! I'm just like you over there only I'm not loved like you are here!


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## SShepherd

mak2 said:


> Yea, why dont you?


* "Crying foul and pointing out your stupidity are two different things. I was point out your stupidity. "*

*"The reason you dont understand it is because no one of normal intelligence would. "*

ya, the 1st one was within the last 24hrs, the other was simple to find...and I could find more easly.
Don't act all butthurt and cry foul about something you do yourself- that's called being a hypocrite.


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## mak2

Now how bout in context?  





SShepherd said:


> * "Crying foul and pointing out your stupidity are two different things. I was point out your stupidity. "*
> 
> *"The reason you dont understand it is because no one of normal intelligence would. "*
> 
> ya, the 1st one was within the last 24hrs, the other was simple to find...and I could find more easly.
> Don't act all butthurt and cry foul about something you do yourself- that's called being a hypocrite.


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## SShepherd

how about do it yourself


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## mak2

You were wandering about from thread to thread babbling some silly shit about jen not talking like a woman and me and her saying the same things. In response to that accusation of a less than honorable act (dishonestly creating a second personality), I did point out your less than brilliant accusation, in fact, it was indeed stupid. If she were a sock puppet the mods would have known immedately, that is the stupid part.  The irritating part is you really think I would need to create a sock to be on this forum.    





SShepherd said:


> how about do it yourself


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## FrancSevin

Attempting to get back to the debate here, and hoping Mak2 doesn't mind,,,,,,, CDAJen charges that no outside thoughts are tolerated here.

I would suggest that is not the case. Bring 'em. I even encouraged her and others to do so. But, what seems to stir resentment is the crazy notion that some of us have which is, new ideas cannot stand on the fragile fondation of being new, original, or even provoking. They must have substance.

New ideas or discussions about old ones, need to be vetted. Otherwise, what is the point in putting in the time to exchange ideas and opinions if we cannot measure their validity or pertanence?

CDAJEN threw some fresh meat on the table. good for her. But, she was unprepared for the scrutiny. When asked to provide some data, some facts, some supporting articles, Editorials, anything, she had nothing but,,,,her opinion. When she challenged some of us to do the same, provide evidence to support our opinions, she got the damming evidence in spades.

Shortly after that, her efforts were directed at starting this "You boys are nasty,,,,,I quit" thread.  Calling us a "jerk" doesn't endear anyone.

I am saddened that many on the left cannot withstand a little scrutiny of their ideas. If one truely believes, they ought to at least try and defend. Even the most indefensable idea deserves that much loyalty.

Otherwise, why post it? Except and unless instead of discourse, the purpose was to provoke discord.

Our nation has not see this much cultural divide since the time of Lincoln. Is this an indication of where we are headed? Are we to once again fertilize the tree of liberty with the blood of those who are intolerant tyrants?

I hope it is not so. But if, in the end, it makes us a better nation,,,,,bring it.


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## DaveNay

I will enjoy my circle, but why call me a jerk?


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## muleman RIP

DaveNay said:


> I will enjoy my circle, but why call me a jerk?


Better watch out or you may get rounded up too!


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## Catavenger

She acts like she doesn't like us . . .


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## tiredretired

DaveNay said:


> I will enjoy my circle, but why call me a jerk?



What are you complaining about.  It's better than asshole.


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## JEV

mak2 said:


> You were wandering about from thread to thread babbling some silly shit about jen not talking like a woman and me and her saying the same things. In response to that accusation of a less than honorable act (dishonestly creating a second personality), I did point out your less than brilliant accusation, in fact, it was indeed stupid. If she were a sock puppet the mods would have known immedately, that is the stupid part.  The irritating part is you really think I would need to create a sock to be on this forum.



That was me buddy. Don't give Shep credit for my outstanding performance.


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## DaveNay

TiredRetired said:


> What are you complaining about.  It's better than asshole.


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## tiredretired

DaveNay said:


>



  Time to fire up the Weber.


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## ki0ho

Hot damn....this thread is almost like having all the girls home at the same time!....thing is you folks are a lot milder than the girls.... thanks for the warm fuzzy evening!!!!


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## tiredretired

ki0ho said:


> Hot damn....this thread is almost like having all the girls home at the same time!....thing is you folks are a lot milder than the girls.... thanks for the warm fuzzy evening!!!!



Should of been around the past week if you think this is hilarious.


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## tiredretired

Glink said:


> Did they have blue eyes?



I dated a girl once that had blue eyes.  One blew east and the other blew west.


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## ki0ho

I was off and on...was feeling the old tingle down my leg!!!!...uho many that was the old bag leaking a bit!!!!!!!!


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## FrancSevin

Bottom line


,,,,man we are a sick bunch,,,,,,


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## Kane

jen left her last chat forum just as abruptly.  And then onto this one from 8AM in the morn 'til 3AM at night.  A prolific poster, thirty some posts a day, non stop whenever she wasn't at work at the free vet clinic.

It makes me wonder what happened at the the last site, or if it's patrons were chastened so upon her departure.  Well, give her this much, she does feel rather highly of herself, and self esteem is important.  It's the primary thing (if not the only thing) they teach you in school nowadays. 

I'm sure she has plenty of ribbons.
.


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## tiredretired

ki0ho said:


> I was off and on...was feeling the old tingle down my leg!!!!...uho many that was the old bag leaking a bit!!!!!!!!



I know the feeling.  Man what a quiet Friday night.  Wife sleeping, the dog passed out 3 hours ago, TV sucks and the newbie left me for a liberal but at least you guys feel my pain.


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## 300 H and H

FrancSevin said:


> Attempting to get back to the debate here, and hoping Mak2 doesn't mind,,,,,,, CDAJen charges that no outside thoughts are tolerated here.
> 
> I would suggest that is not the case. Bring 'em. I even encouraged her and others to do so. But, what seems to stir resentment is the crazy notion that some of us have which is, new ideas cannot stand on the fragile fondation of being new, original, or even provoking. They must have substance.
> 
> New ideas or discussions about old ones, need to be vetted. Otherwise, what is the point in putting in the time to exchange ideas and opinions if we cannot measure their validity or pertanence?
> 
> CDAJEN threw some fresh meat on the table. good for her. But, she was unprepared for the scrutiny. When asked to provide some data, some facts, some supporting articles, Editorials, anything, she had nothing but,,,,her opinion. When she challenged some of us to do the same, provide evidence to support our opinions, she got the damming evidence in spades.
> 
> Shortly after that, her efforts were directed at starting this "You boys are nasty,,,,,I quit" thread. Calling us a "jerk" doesn't endear anyone.
> 
> I am saddened that many on the left cannot withstand a little scrutiny of their ideas. If one truely believes, they ought to at least try and defend. Even the most indefensable idea deserves that much loyalty.
> 
> Otherwise, why post it? Except and unless instead of discourse, the purpose was to provoke discord.
> 
> Our nation has not see this much cultural divide since the time of Lincoln. Is this an indication of where we are headed? Are we to once again fertilize the tree of liberty with the blood of those who are intolerant tyrants?
> 
> I hope it is not so. But if, in the end, it makes us a better nation,,,,,bring it.


 

Well said franc!


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## FrancSevin

300 H and H said:


> Well said franc!


 
Thank you. Poorly typed and I cannot sphel fer shit, but I do hope I conveyed the feelings of many here.

We should always encourage lively debate. But if one cannot be honest and present ideas with some honor and honesty, go find a blog, right or left that will change and accomodate you. Post your sacred bile there.

I have read thru Jen's posts and threads. I cannot find anything anyone said that requires an apology. Except perhaps the sophmoric use of the word "jerk"

A personal insult and not even a particularly original one.


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## SShepherd

TiredRetired said:


> I dated a girl once that had blue eyes. One blew east and the other blew west.


 bada..bing


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## pirate_girl

grizzer said:


> Is this the poster that called me crazy?
> 
> That made me feel so pretty pretty
> 
> http://www.funonthenet.in/content/view/219/31/ click on the green in the video box.
> 
> PG & JPR go get her & bring her back I like being pretty




Huh?




Kane said:


> jen left her last chat forum just as abruptly.  And then onto this one from 8AM in the morn 'til 3AM at night.  A prolific poster, thirty some posts a day, non stop whenever she wasn't at work at the free vet clinic.
> 
> It makes me wonder what happened at the the last site, or if it's patrons were chastened so upon her departure.  Well, give her this much, she does feel rather highly of herself, and self esteem is important.  It's the primary thing (if not the only thing) they teach you in school nowadays.
> 
> I'm sure she has plenty of ribbons.
> .


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## pirate_girl

God damn, you're gone all day and come back to this?
Did she leave or what?
Did someone find out she was a sham?
Please enlighten me someone.


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## pirate_girl

So no one's going to say anything more?

Thanks for all the posts downing her.. and for running HER off..

What a hot mess of peaches we've got here.


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## FrancSevin

pirate_girl said:


> So no one's going to say anything more?
> 
> Thanks for all the posts downing her.. and for running HER off..
> 
> What a hot mess of peaches we've got here.


 
Nobody ran her of lollie.  And she gave plenty of crap herself. 

She dove into the rapids and was surprised by the power of the currents, bumped a few rocks, got mad and left.

But not without tossing insults to her hosts.


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## pirate_girl

Well, it's too bad it worked out that way then.
I did warn her in PM last night about what was acceptable on the forums when she was asking about where to find the TOS.


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## Catavenger

There is a warning  that the political debates can get HEATED. I never made a personal remark against her.


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## FrancSevin

pirate_girl said:


> Well, it's too bad it worked out that way then.
> I did warn her in PM last night about what was acceptable on the forums when she was asking about where to find the TOS.


 
We have no reason to run off pretty young women.  Hell none of them give old farts give us a second glance in the real world.  But here we can ignore our ages and just be human friends.  Doesn't mean we have to be sluts and give up what we believe in, or honesty in our conversations.

If men andwomenare to be equal inthis world,then the need to plant their feet firmly, stand and defend their ground.  Not go running off in tears when someone questions their musings.

Sadly not all women are worldy like you. Got any like minded friends or sisters? Stimulating people are much less boring in conversations that submissive ones. And they tend to respect their counterparts more. Male or female.


I personaly prefer intelligent, strong  willed women.  I married one on purpose.  We are still together because she is mentaly challenging. And,fortunately, we don't agree on everything. She has her own mind and some backbone with which to take me , and anyone else, to task.  Personaly I think she and I have a chance. Another 40 years will tell.


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## pirate_girl

FrancSevin said:


> *
> Sadly not all women are worldy like you.* _Got any like minded friends or sisters?_



*I wouldn't call myself worldly.*
_Yes, but they aren't into forums.. they like Facebook._


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## SShepherd

Catavenger said:


> There is a warning that the political debates can get HEATED. I never made a personal remark against her.


 nor did I, I simply asked for references to back up her assertions.


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## cdajen

I would be a bit more careful of what I say, were I some of you, because I doubt you want to come across as the sophomoric group of knuckle-dragging, insecure, superficial male "mean girls" that you do. 

I don't have the time or the desire to address each of you separately. You can all assure each other that you did nothing wrong, and that I "ran away crying" and slap each other's asses if you'd like. The facts remain the same, unless they have been edited of course. A good many of you behaved badly. 

you didn't attack my facts, you attacked my honesty, my civility, my intelligence, my gender, my philosophy, my patriotism, my sanity and my character. You made comments about wondering whether I am "really" a woman. You claimed that I don't support the troops. You repeatedly called me "typical" and accused me of obfuscating things. However, you would never be specific. You didn't address my opinions or my facts... YOu simply called me a "predictable liberal". I'm sure it's much easier to live your life dismissing anyone you don't agree with as a liberal, than it would be to actually listen to people and react to them based on the merits of their arguments. 

I did not whine, or cry or ask that anyone or anything be "moderated". ALL forums have rules regarding behavior. TOS are always posted clearly for anyone to find. If you accept donations or money from members, you have to provide terms of service so that people may be aware of the terms of the contract they are entering. That is the most basic rule of any forum website. The other most basic rule is that you cannot fundamentally alter a "debate" once you've posted something. Redacting portions of a post, in order to make your argument seem more valid, is cheating. Period. 

I may use verbage that is not typical of the women you know. I may have more manners than you are accustomed to. I may not be what you assume a liberal should be. I'm ok with that. Being atypical does not give you the right to rude and unkind with impunity. 

I got a message regarding the thread I posted about one of Romney's new ads. In the message I was told that I needed to cite my source for the article because there was concern over copyright laws. I find that ironic to say the least because there doesn't seem to be concern over basic rules of debate, but that's superfluous. All Associated Press articles are free to be reprinted or reposted without specific permission. I do not post things written by others, and claim they are mine. The article in the thread was clearly copy/pasted from another source. If it had been a source that needed to be cited, I would have cited it. 

As to the amount of time I spent here.. The term "cold turkey" seems to be used, incorrectly, by several members here. I didn't quit another site "cold turkey". My mother went to Salt Lake city to get a cardiac ablation last week. I made arrangements to take leave from work (not a "free" vet btw) so that I could stay at home with her during the day while my father is at work. She needs to rest, so I'll be doing the cooking cleaning etc until she recovers. This left me with more time in front of the computer than i am accustomed to having. The site that is home to the forum I usually visit, has changed ownership and is being overhauled. they have chosen to stop using flash scripts, and as part of the change, the forums have been altered. I don't like the new format. So i thought I'd look for a new forum. I made the mistake of finding this one. I was not online nonstop. My computer remains open whether or not I'm in front of it. Worrying about my mom has completely thrown off my sleep schedule, which was already a mess, so i was online at odd hours. None of this is any of your business. i wouldnt' dream of questioning your private circumstances or of asking you to account for the amount of time you spend online. That would be out of line and inappropriate. 

My job... Some of you have chosen to question my career. You're free to question whatever you'd like of course, but I have to telly ou how much that irritates me. I work for a low cost spay and neuter clinic and emergency veterinary surgery. I deal with cases that no one else wants or will take. Most of my patients pay. I do not turn people with emergency cases away because they cannot pay what other surgical clinics would charge. I help put family pets back together after they get hit by cars, or get tangled up in farm equipment, or get caught in a trap, or get attacked by another animal. I do my best to save the lives of animals that are really important to people. I help with a program to trap feral cats and neuter them so that there are less unwanted kittens. I work as part of a group to help find homes for animals that need owners. 

I work hard for my family. I love my work because it's important. I love my country. I am an honest, nice woman. I would be horribly embarrassed if a member of my family treated you or your wives or daughters, the way I've been treated by some of you here. I sincerely hope that many of you are far different online than in real life. 

Feel free to go back to the back slapping joviality, I'm sorry for interrupting. If you dont mind, I'd appreciate it if you could refrain from making overt judgements about who I am  or what I do when I'm not here to defend myself. 

Jennifer


----------



## Kane

cdajen said:


> the sophomoric group of knuckle-dragging, insecure, superficial male "mean girls"  ....  didn't address my opinions or my facts... you simply called me a "predictable liberal". I'm sure it's much easier to live your life dismissing anyone you don't agree with as a liberal, than it would be to actually listen to people and react to them based on the merits of their arguments.
> 
> blah, blah, blah ......
> 
> Feel free to go back to the back slapping joviality, I'm sorry for interrupting.
> 
> Jennifer


You see, that's the problem, Jennifer.  What facts?  What merit of argument?

With all respect (as best as I can garner) all that I heard from you was "I'm a liberal, and I'm smarter than you. So you are wrong and I am right."

We are all open to learn from facts and corollary, and politely suggest that the knuckle-draggers here on FF offer just such an environment  of_ informed_ debate.  What you will not hear on FF is "I'm a conservative, smarter than you, therefore I'm right."  Anyone dabbling here, if willing, will be engaged in debate rife with documentation supporting a opinion or political position.   Positions are backed up with fact. Gobs and gobs of it. That is how we learn, not simply win; not lose. 

And that is how opinions are either reinforced, or  -  God Forbid  -  altered.  By facts and current corollary.  And the folks a FF offer plenty.

Sorry, Jen, but when challenged with a differing opinion, the extent of what you offer is, paraphrasing but we may quote, "how can anyone be so stupid as to believe that."

Thanks but no thanks. Me?  I want more.  Tell me why I'm wrong.  Show me facts and current corollary.  Maybe you'll change my mind.
.


----------



## muleman RIP

Jennifer, You chose to take offense at my post about rounding up folks and sending them back to where they came from. That is your right and nobody can tell you how to feel about things. As to a lot of your other remarks I also work spay/neuter clinics and so does my wife. We both volunteer at a local private shelter. I never threw any stones at you so perhaps your broad sweeping condemnation is a bit out of line. There is a simple solution to much of this situation..........


----------



## 300 H and H

Jen,

When your life is more normal, and your consernes are not with your parents as they are now, I surely would like to see you posting here again...It's hard to answer all the questions you had thrown at you this past week, and one thing most have learned here is that some one will want supporting eveidence for what you post. It's a bitch to do some times, but in the end you will be respected for it. I am sure when I posted in one thread you thought you were being "piled on"...Actually I am a farmer and spend time in the evening and mornings here. My chance to ask was with several others, and at the same time. Just remember you cann't "see" us and know why we post and when. 

And the politial debate thread is a tough place to post BTW. The warning of heated conversations is quite real. But many other places on the forum are not at all like this...

You bring good itellegent conversation here, and I hope with some time to think about it, you might come here from time to time...When you have the time.

Best regards, Kirk


----------



## luvs

FrancSevin said:


> Bottom line
> 
> 
> ,,,,man we are a sick bunch,,,,,,


 

yeah.


----------



## mak2

each and every time someone comes here and has a bit different idealology (read even slightly liberal) they get run off.  Happens every time, and you guys pretend it is some intellectual superiority, superior logic, or something.  IT is because you guys attacked her personally happens every time.  How can you possibly not see it?  I guarantee you it was NOT the superior intellect or strong logic.


----------



## mak2

They ran her off. As usual.  


pirate_girl said:


> God damn, you're gone all day and come back to this?
> Did she leave or what?
> Did someone find out she was a sham?
> Please enlighten me someone.


----------



## FrancSevin

mak2 said:


> They ran her off. As usual. [/QUOT
> 
> As always your comments are inflammitory, which is fine, but unfounded.
> 
> When I joined,I was accused of having avery different point of view on many subjects. I recall a tangle or two with just about everyone here. Fortunately, we still do.
> 
> Its normal to provoke newbies.
> It is also normal, and healthy to provoke each other.
> 
> That said;
> I don't think anyone should come here to be changed into what folks here would like. At the same time, I don't think we need to change what we are so tender souls can join serious discussions about important issues. I have participated inother Forums. One thing is almost universal,,,,internet chatter is cheap.  I must say this one likely has some of the most informed participants onboth the left and the right, who raise the discussions to a point of usefulness.
> 
> If you bring your class I skills to a class V river, don't bitch about bumping rocks in the the rapids. We like the river to be tough and challenging. We aren't obligated or interested in changing the river.  I emplor the mods not to change anything, simply because CDAJEN , or you sir, are offended by our rugged waters.
> 
> Again I assert that no one said anything to Jen that was insulting, and certainly not at a level equal to what she is spouting. Provoking , yes, possibly even teasing a bit. But nothing mendacios.
> 
> You are welcome to re read the posts and prove differt'. Backup your assertions with examples MAK2. Which is all anyone here asked CDAJen to do.


----------



## mak2

They are simply true.  And you cant handle the truth.  It happens every time and then the denial starts.  

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j2F4VcBmeo"]A Few Good Man "You Can't Handle the Truth"      - YouTube[/ame]



FrancSevin said:


> mak2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> They ran her off. As usual. [/QUOT
> 
> As always your comments are inflammitory, which is fine, but unfounded.
> 
> When I joined,I was accused of having avery different point of view onmany subjects. I recall a tangle or two with just about everyone here. Fortunately, we still do.
> 
> Its normal to provoke newbies.
> It is also normalandhealthy to provoke each other.
> 
> That said;
> I don't think anyone should come here to be changed into what folks here would like. At the sametime, I don't think we need to change what we are so tender souls can join serious discussions about important issues.
> 
> If you bring you class I skills to a class V river, don't bitch about bumping rocks in the the rapids. We like the river to be tough and challenging. We aren't obligated or interested in changing the river.
> 
> Again I assert that no one said anything to Jen that was insulting, and certainly not at a level equal to what she is spouting. Provoking , yes, possibly even teasing a bit. But nothing mendacios.
> 
> You are welcome to re read the posts and prove differt'. Backup your assertions with examples MAK2. Which is all anyone here asked CDAJen to do.
Click to expand...


----------



## Smoochy

I know it's not really my place being as that I'm not a very active member, but it's a shame you're leaving, Jenn. You're obviously an intelligent woman and I wish you, and your mother, the best. 


I know that my views are not what is popular around here (I'm also a liberal), and I don't agree with a large majority of what is said in the political board here, but I take it all with a grain of salt. I know these people aren't bad people, they just have different views than myself and that's fine. If you haven't noticed, I'm only active in off topic and other forums (this is my first post in any serious thread). I enjoy chatting with others regardless of their political views or religious beliefs, I let them feel and believe how they want. 

Plus, I'm not a very good debater, so I stay away from that end of the spectrum.


----------



## JEV

mak2 said:


> They are simply true.  And you cant handle the truth.  It happens every time and then the denial starts.
> 
> A Few Good Man "You Can't Handle the Truth"      - YouTube
> 
> 
> You made a funny, mak. That's what we like about you... Your good sense of humor.


----------



## FrancSevin

mak2 said:


> They are simply true. And you cant handle the truth. It happens every time and then the denial starts.
> 
> _They are simply true?_
> 
> Hell, doesn't back up anything. Except my opinion that you process logical discussions and reality just as CDAJEN did.
> 
> Such logic is why you keep confusing me with someone who gives a shit what you think mak2.
> 
> Now _*that *_is an example of personal insult designed to runsomeone off. Please takeit as that and find it, or something like it,in the discussions the members here with Jen.
> 
> Then perhaps, you could backup your opinion. As it is you are just peeing on a flack rock.


----------



## mak2

FOr not giving a shit you sure do babble on.  You guys surrounded her and ran her off.  As always. If you arent smart enough to see the personal attacks me pointing them out probably wont help, I have already pointed out several, but again, you are in denial. How bout one of you dummies telling her she did not talk like a woman?  That is not a personal attack?  It was suppose to be a funny post, guess the turth hurts huh? 





FrancSevin said:


> mak2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are simply true. And you cant handle the truth. It happens every time and then the denial starts.
> 
> _They are simply true?_
> 
> Hell, doesn't back up anything. Except my opinion that you process logical discussions and reality just as CDAJEN did.
> 
> Such logic is why you keep confusing me with someone who gives a shit what you think mak2.
> 
> Now _*that *_is an example of personal insult designed to runsomeone off. Please takeit as that and find it, or something like it,in the discussions the members here with Jen.
> 
> Then perhaps, you could backup your opinion. As it is you are just peeing on a flack rock.
Click to expand...


----------



## SShepherd

rotfl, and when you're out of ammo mak, the drama starts.

boo hoo...big bad meanies are picking on us cuz we have a different point of view. Next we'll hear you prate about how you're going to get banned for being the "token" liberal..."but something has to be said". Spare us the Tammy Fay tears.

I'm pretty sure that ANYONE in the debate forums states something as a fact and don't back it up, it's on like donkey kong.

About every 3 month I take you off ignore, and it takes about a week to regret it.


----------



## mak2

A week?  Damn.  


SShepherd said:


> rotfl, and when you're out of ammo mak, the drama starts.
> 
> boo hoo...big bad meanies are picking on us cuz we have a different point of view. Next we'll hear you prate about how you're going to get banned for being the "token" liberal..."but something has to be said". Spare us the Tammy Fay tears.
> 
> I'm pretty sure that ANYONE in the debate forums states something as a fact and don't back it up, it's on like donkey kong.
> 
> About every 3 month I take you off ignore, and it takes about a week to regret it.


----------



## 300 H and H

mak2,

I think she left caise she is over welmed. She doesn't strike me as the type to be "run off" is that is not her choice. Caring for a parent, and worrying about her own life is like that at times. This board, and what goes on here requires an emmense amount of time, if you participate fully and provide the supporting arguments for others to see, and debate. Like you she is out numbered by a fair margin. This can be overwhelming if your tring to lead your life in the "real" world....

I do hope however she comes back in a fashion she can find managable, with less posts and more time to supply supporting evidence.....

Regards, Kirk


----------



## mak2

That certainly could be Kirk, it did sound like she has a lot going on in life.  I do think the personal attacks she mentioned at least contributed to her departure.  It just happens every single time, that is my point. I dont think it was the pressure of citing references for her opinions.  Thanks the well thought out and polite post. Maybe she will be back someday.  





300 H and H said:


> mak2,
> 
> I think she left caise she is over welmed. She doesn't strike me as the type to be "run off" is that is not her choice. Caring for a parent, and worrying about her own life is like that at times. This board, and what goes on here requires an emmense amount of time, if you participate fully and provide the supporting arguments for others to see, and debate. Like you she is out numbered by a fair margin. This can be overwhelming if your tring to lead your life in the "real" world....
> 
> I do hope however she comes back in a fashion she can find managable, with less posts and more time to supply supporting evidence.....
> 
> Regards, Kirk


----------



## FrancSevin

mak2 said:


> FOr not giving a shit you sure do babble on. You guys surrounded her and ran her off. As always. If you arent smart enough to see the personal attacks me pointing them out probably wont help, I have already pointed out several, but again, you are in denial. How bout one of you dummies telling her she did not talk like a woman? That is not a personal attack? It was suppose to be a funny post, guess the turth hurts huh?
> 
> Your relationship with the "truth' seems fickle at best.
> 
> Once again you have failed to perform the simpliest request which is to review the postings and support your claims. If I am mistaken,sorry, but you have presented no findings to back your assertions.
> 
> 
> I presume, like all the knowledge currently residing in your head, you seem comforable with aquiring it via ossmossis rather than research.
> 
> Kind of a winky way to git smarts, but if it works fer ya, carry on.
> 
> But if you had done any honest research, you might have noticed that your poor victim here called all her new corespondents "jerks"


----------



## FrancSevin

300 H and H said:


> mak2,
> 
> I think she left caise she is over welmed. She doesn't strike me as the type to be "run off" is that is not her choice. Caring for a parent, and worrying about her own life is like that at times. This board, and what goes on here requires an emmense amount of time, if you participate fully and provide the supporting arguments for others to see, and debate. Like you she is out numbered by a fair margin. This can be overwhelming if your tring to lead your life in the "real" world....
> 
> I do hope however she comes back in a fashion she can find managable, with less posts and more time to supply supporting evidence.....
> 
> Regards, Kirk


 
I dunno Kirk. We all have a lot going on in our lives. If we have too much on the plate, why come here and add to the stress by picking a fight with strangers?

If we have a lot to do, how does one find the time to compose 30 plus entries a day on a Forum?


Simple logic defeats that argument.


----------



## tiredretired

Smoochy said:


> I know it's not really my place being as that I'm not a very active member, but it's a shame you're leaving, Jenn. You're obviously an intelligent woman and I wish you, and your mother, the best.
> 
> 
> I know that my views are not what is popular around here (I'm also a liberal), and I don't agree with a large majority of what is said in the political board here, but I take it all with a grain of salt. I know these people aren't bad people, they just have different views than myself and that's fine. If you haven't noticed, I'm only active in off topic and other forums (this is my first post in any serious thread). I enjoy chatting with others regardless of their political views or religious beliefs, I let them feel and believe how they want.
> 
> Plus, I'm not a very good debater, so I stay away from that end of the spectrum.



By all means, please post in the debate section.  Get your feet wet a little so to speak.  I would love to hear your opinions.  I understand what Mak is saying but I do not agree with it. Two of the most prominent liberals here Mak & JoeC are both on my friends list and I am damn proud to say that.  Good people both.  

With that said, Smoochy, you have been here a month or so and have made great posts.  You did not come riding into town on your high horse, telling everyone how smart you are, how much money you have, yada, yada yada.  That turns people off.  It did me.  Big time.  Don't need to impress me, I am nobody.  The brutal truth and I was dissed for saying it is this is the internet, who gives a shit.  Kind of strong, but you get my point.  

Respect is earned.  You have earned mine already.  Post.  Let's have some great points of view.


----------



## Smoochy

TiredRetired said:


> By all means, please post in the debate section.  Get your feet wet a little so to speak.  I would love to hear your opinions.  I understand what Mak is saying but I do not agree with it. Two of the most prominent liberals here Mak & JoeC are both on my friends list and I am damn proud to say that.  Good people both.
> 
> With that said, Smoochy, you have been here a month or so and have made great posts.  You did not come riding into town on your high horse, telling everyone how smart you are, how much money you have, yada, yada yada.  That turns people off.  It did me.  Big time.  Don't need to impress me, I am nobody.  The brutal truth and I was dissed for saying it is this is the internet, who gives a shit.  Kind of strong, but you get my point.
> 
> Respect is earned.  You have earned mine already.  Post.  Let's have some great points of view.



I appreciate the kind words, good sir. 


However, when it comes to debate, I start spazzing. That's why I tend to avoid it. I have my beliefs, I'm just not very good at arguments. Plus, I'm also not a bleeding heart liberal. Sure, I agree with the left on most things, but there are some things that I agree with on the conservative side. Do I like Obama? Not really, sure I voted for him in 2008, but he hasn't really impressed me with his term, so I'm still torn as to who will be getting my vote come November. I'm not your hard headed "I'm always right, you're always wrong" type guy when it comes to anything. That's not to say that I won't throw my two cents in occasionally though.


----------



## FrancSevin

Smoochy said:


> I appreciate the kind words, good sir.
> 
> 
> However, when it comes to debate, I start spazzing. That's why I tend to avoid it. I have my beliefs, I'm just not very good at arguments. Plus, I'm also not a bleeding heart liberal. Sure, I agree with the left on most things, but there are some things that I agree with on the conservative side. Do I like Obama? Not really, sure I voted for him in 2008, but he hasn't really impressed me with his term, so I'm still torn as to who will be getting my vote come November. I'm not your hard headed "I'm always right, you're always wrong" type guy when it comes to anything. That's not to say that I won't throw my two cents in occasionally though.


 
For the record, I agree with TR here. Your posts are welcome.

CDAJEN's problem was not an inability to debate. It was a lack of respect shown for her correspondents in the discussions.
KANE pegged it well.

Your posts, on the other hand, are gracious and respectful. You would likely be treated accordingly. Even in the politics section.

Being outnumbered shouldn't discourage anyone. My recent thread on Todd Akin had just about everybody opposite me on the issue. It went four pages like that. Not the first time here I found myself in the extreme minority view on an issue. I found it to be a good discussion. I hope it is not the last time I have to reach back and actualy flesh out my opinion.


----------



## JEV

mak2 said:


> How bout one of you dummies telling her she did not talk like a woman?  That is not a personal attack?  It was suppose to be a funny post, guess the turth hurts huh?




Mak2, I would be that "dummy" who made that statement, and I would make it again. If you would have finished reading that thread before getting your liberal up, you would have seen that I qualified my curiosity as to the gender of the poster. But, I know details are not your strong suit, so I'll give you a pass, just like Holder give the illegals, the new black panthers and the fast and furious participants.


----------



## pirate_girl

Found her open to the public photobucket account.
Nice photos in there, and they all paint a portrait of her just being a regular lady in her own world.


----------



## mak2

So a woman cant say "buddies?"  It has nothing to do with being liberal.  It has more to do with how adults act.  I generally dont question peoples gender or sexual preference for using a common term.  But hey, yea it is me not paying attention to details.   and what in the hell has holder have to do with you insulting a poster?  Oh wait, are you saying he justifies your rudness to her because she is liberal and so is he?  





JEV said:


> Mak2, I would be that "dummy" who made that statement, and I would make it again. If you would have finished reading that thread before getting your liberal up, you would have seen that I qualified my curiosity as to the gender of the poster. But, I know details are not your strong suit, so I'll give you a pass, just like Holder give the illegals, the new black panthers and the fast and furious participants.


----------



## Big Dog

This thread is going nowhere .............. but to shit we've rehashed more than enough.


----------



## DaveNay

Big Dog said:


> This thread is going nowhere .............. but to shit we've rehashed more than enough.



Maybe this time everyone can resolve their differences?


----------



## FrancSevin

DaveNay said:


> Maybe this time everyone can resolve their differences?


 
And* why* would we want to do that?


----------



## Kane

When a poster is knowledgeable, clear and concise a political debate  can be informative and entertaining.

Nowhere does it say it is necessary to be emotional. And in this arena, given fair warning, it is best that one's firearms and emotions be left secured in the glovebox.  Failure to do so may result in severe hurt to one's feelings.

Bandaids available at the door on the way out.
.


----------



## cdajen

i do not separate my emotions from my ideology. Continuing to claim that I'm crying about something doesn't add to your argument. In a debate forum which notes that threads may become heated, I don't think I've acted inappropriately at all. The opinions made in this thread are my own, and I don't need to back them up with a source. My opinions are facts as to the way I feel about things. If there is something specific you'd like me to back up with an example, ask me to do so. I will be asking for sources for anything you guys present as fact, and editorials do not count as factual references. 

The fact that you guys carried this thread so far, when i wasn't here, tells me that you are a little touchy about being told you haven't been welcoming. If you didn't care what I think, you would simply have ignored the thread. 

30+ posts per day doesn't seem like much to me, I have to wonder why you're so stuck on that number Kane. Is there an unwritten rule about the appropriate number of posts a member should have per day?


----------



## cdajen

"Nowhere does it say it is necessary to be emotional. And in this arena, given fair warning, it is best that one's firearms and emotions be left secured in the glovebox. Failure to do so may result in severe hurt to one's feelings."

Does it say anywhere that it is necessary to be unemotional?


----------



## Kane

cdajen said:


> i do not separate my emotions from my ideology.  My opinions are facts as to the way I feel about things.


Speaks for itself.



> The fact that you guys carried this thread so far, when i wasn't here, ...


Kindly provide cc: of your daytimer so we can accommodate.



> 30+ posts per day doesn't seem like much to me, ....


300 H&H          3  per day
Kane               6 per day
Big Dog           5 per day
Pirate Girl       19 per day
Danang Sailor   3 per day
FrancSevin      10 per day
mak2              4 per day
grizzer            1 per day
JEV                5 per day
TiredRetired     10 per day
CityGirl   2 per day
Catavenger  5 per day
luvs  2 per day
jimbo   2 per day
EastTexFrank  3  per day
MelensDad  11 per day

Yeah, 30 per day is a lot. No one else comes close.  I think someone earlier suggested quality over quantity. Sorry for being so unemotional.
.


----------



## Whynot

Kane, you just gave a list of longtime members of this board. Of course their average is going to be lower. It's kinda like a new relationship, you start out shagging every night, but as time goes on the shag sessions drop off... 

Carry on


----------



## cdajen

The list you posted.. Is that an average over a particular course of time?

Would you prefer that members were less active?
Still you've not explained why me posting 30 posts in a day bothers you.


----------



## loboloco

*[FONT=arial,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]American Heritage dictionary

o·pin·ion[/SIZE][/FONT]* 

  (
	

	
	
		
		

		
			
		
		
	


	




-p
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




n
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




y
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




n) [SIZE=-2]KEY[/SIZE] 

[SIZE=-1]*NOUN:*[/SIZE]


 A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof: _"The world is not run by thought, nor by imagination, but by opinion"_ _(Elizabeth Drew)._
 A judgment based on special knowledge and given by an expert: _a medical opinion._
 A judgment or estimation of the merit of a person or thing: _has a low opinion of braggarts._
 The prevailing view: _public opinion._
 _Law_  A formal statement by a court or other adjudicative body of the legal reasons and principles for the conclusions of the court.


Bussinessdictionary.com

*fact*


*Definition*


Event, item of information,  or state of affairs existing, observed, or known to have happened, and  which is confirmed or validated to such an extent that it is considered  'reality.' See also assumption, rule of thumb, and science.


Read more: http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/fact.html#ixzz24afY7evT
​


----------



## Danang Sailor

I was going to stay out of this thread, but there is a point that really needs to be addressed:  Jen did *not* call anyone here a
"jerk".  The thread's title is "Enjoy your circle jerk"; this is a sexual reference to a bunch of guys ... well, this is not the Adults Only
forum, so that's enough.

Perhaps we ALL need to take more care with how we read things, eh?


----------



## pirate_girl

Kane said:


> Yeah, 30 per day is a lot. No one else comes close.  I think someone earlier suggested quality over quantity. Sorry for being so unemotional.
> .


What's the big deal over post count anyhow?
Kane, it's a bit trifling to even mention that.. besides, what does Doc always say as greeting when a new member joins the Forums?
Enjoy and post often..
This is his joint.. be fruitful and may thy posts multiply..


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## DaveNay

Danang Sailor said:


> I was going to stay out of this thread, but there is a point that really needs to be addressed:  Jen did *not* call anyone here a
> "jerk".  The thread's title is "Enjoy your circle jerk"; this is a sexual reference to a bunch of guys ... well, this is not the Adults Only
> forum, so that's enough.
> 
> Perhaps we ALL need to take more care with how we read things, eh?



As far as I know, I am the only one who said anything about being called a jerk, and that was only as a play on words. I also said I would enjoy my circle.


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## Kane

pirate_girl said:


> What's the big deal over post count anyhow?
> Kane, it's a bit trifling to even mention that.. besides, what does Doc always say as greeting when a new member joins the Forums?
> Enjoy and post often..
> This is his joint.. be fruitful and may thy posts multiply..


Actually, PG, to me, it is not that big a deal and simply stems from this comment:


> jen left her last chat forum just as abruptly.  And then onto this one  from 8AM in the morn 'til 3AM at night.  A prolific poster, thirty some  posts a day, non stop whenever she wasn't at work


Jen corrected me and stated that for the most part, her computer is idling during the day while she tends to other things. But she inquired _again _(to the post below I believe) suggesting that 30 posts a day is not all that unusual.  I dunno, maybe it isn't, particularly from a computer that is idling most of the day.  You tell me.  I simply compiled the data.  You know, the facts.

Another innocent bystander reflects thus:



> I dunno Kirk. We all have a lot going on in our lives. If we have too  much on the plate, why come here and add to the stress by picking a  fight with strangers?
> 
> If we have a lot to do, how does one find the time to compose 30 plus entries a day on a Forum?
> 
> 
> Simple logic defeats that argument.


Others have opined it might be a quality/quantity thing.  

Trifling?  Maybe.  Then why do you ask?












PS:  Would it help you all if I simply changed my avatar to monkey less annoying?


.


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## FrancSevin

DaveNay said:


> As far as I know, I am the only one who said anything about being called a jerk, and that was only as a play on words. I also said I would enjoy my circle.


 


The word jerk and it's targets are not hard to find.
It is in the thread title.
And the OP.

All cleverly encased in a coy double ententre'

You should see what is called a "compliment."

I have spent some time in MONTANA.  The languague did not seem all that differt' than english.  But upon review of my conversations with CDAJEN, I do worry what I took wrong and whom I minght have inadvertaently offended during my visit there.


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## SShepherd

cdajen said:


> i do not separate my emotions from my ideology. Continuing to claim that I'm crying about something doesn't add to your argument. In a debate forum which notes that threads may become heated, I don't think I've acted inappropriately at all.* The opinions made in this thread are my own, and I don't need to back them up with a source. My opinions are facts as to the way I feel about things.* If there is something specific you'd like me to back up with an example, ask me to do so. I will be asking for sources for anything you guys present as fact, and editorials do not count as factual references.
> 
> The fact that you guys carried this thread so far, when i wasn't here, tells me that you are a little touchy about being told you haven't been welcoming. If you didn't care what I think, you would simply have ignored the thread.
> 
> 30+ posts per day doesn't seem like much to me, I have to wonder why you're so stuck on that number Kane. Is there an unwritten rule about the appropriate number of posts a member should have per day?


 
well, I think that sums everything up quite nicely
If you can't back up what you say, and your opinion is the only fact you believe are real, then don't be expected to be taken seriously.


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## pirate_girl

Kane said:


> Trifling?  Maybe.  Then why do you ask?
> 
> .


Well, because I can? 
so there! na na na na naaaaaaaaaaaa!
Tag you're it! LOL


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## 300 H and H

I suggest a three day cooling off period, to let this thread die....

Then come back with a few posts and see how it goes. 

I would still like simple questions I asked answered. Like why are the presiednts records sealed? Has he ever formally become a US citizen, after being the passport holder of another country as we know he was in 1981 to get in to Afganistan.


I want to know what your so sure of, and sources that will lay my fears to rest. Can you possibly do that?

Other than his taxes, Romney is an open book.... 

Regards, Kirk


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## cdajen

Kane said:


> When a poster is knowledgeable, clear and concise a political debate  can be informative and entertaining.
> 
> Nowhere does it say it is necessary to be emotional. And in this arena, given fair warning, it is best that one's firearms and emotions be left secured in the glovebox.  Failure to do so may result in severe hurt to one's feelings.
> 
> Bandaids available at the door on the way out.
> .





300 H and H said:


> I suggest a three day cooling off period, to let this thread die....
> 
> Then come back with a few posts and see how it goes.
> 
> I would still like simple questions I asked answered. Like why are the presiednts records sealed? Has he ever formally become a US citizen, after being the passport holder of another country as we know he was in 1981 to get in to Afganistan.
> 
> 
> I want to know what your so sure of, and sources that will lay my fears to rest. Can you possibly do that?
> 
> Other than his taxes, Romney is an open book....
> 
> Regards, Kirk



Thank you, but I don't need a "cooling off" period. Given how many accusations and claims have been made about me in only 1 days, I can only imagine what would be here after 3. 

As to Obama's "sealed records". The entire premise is faulty. The idea that any Obama record is “sealed” is a falsehood, to start. The word “sealed” when applied to documents ordinarily refers to records that would normally be public, but that a judge has ruled cannot be released without the court’s permission. Common examples of truly “sealed” documents include records of crimes committed as a juvenile or records of adoptions. 

In some cases, the records this screed claims are “sealed” are actually public, and open for anyone to see. Other supposedly “sealed” records are normally private documents that Obama hasn’t released — and that other presidential candidates haven’t released either.

Obama’s college records are not “sealed” by a court order, . It would be illegal under federal law (the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act of 1974) for Occidental, Columbia or Harvard Law School to give any former student’s records to reporters or members of the public without that person’s specific, written permission. Obama hasn’t released them, but neither have other presidential candidates released their college records. George W. Bush’s grades at Yale eventually became public, but only because somebody leaked them to the New Yorker magazine. Bush himself refused to release them, according to a 1999 profile in the Washington Post.

Obama’s Selective Service registration is public. A copy has been posted publicly, and the Selective Service confirmed that Obama registered for the draft on Sept. 4, 1980, and was given registration number 61-1125539-1.
Worth noting is that nobody in the U.S. has been drafted for military service since 1972, the year Obama turned 11. Obama, like other young men turning age 18 since then, was required to register on a standby basis, in case Congress ever resumes an active military draft. Failure to register is technically a crime, and disqualifies a man for federal student aid or from holding certain federal jobs

Obama’s voting record in the Illinois state Senate is a matter of public record, and about as far from being “sealed” as one can imagine. Reporters extensively went over his votes in 2008.  Transcripts of Senate debates in which Obama took part while in office (1997 – 2004) can even be found online, at the website of the Illinois General Assembly.

The claim that Obama’s birth certificate is “sealed” is pure nonsense. Copies of both the so-called “short” and “long” certificates have been released, and state officials in Hawaii have said repeatedly that Obama was born there in 1961 and is a “natural born American citizen.”

If you find something I've posted here is factually inaccurate I encourage you to challenge it.


----------



## cdajen

"Has he ever formally become a US citizen, after being the passport holder of another country as we know he was in 1981 to get in to Afganistan."

I cannot find a single fact to support this assertion, making it difficult for me to address.


----------



## cdajen

As to my 30+ posts per day. I would say that most posts take under a minute or two to type, so 30+ per day doesn't consume much of my day. 

I still don't understand why you're hung up on that number. I'd like to see Kane and a couple of the other "regs" numbers for the days since I've been here. I've not been replying to myself.


----------



## cdajen

FrancSevin said:


> The word jerk and it's targets are not hard to find.
> It is in the thread title.
> And the OP.
> 
> All cleverly encased in a coy double ententre'
> 
> You should see what is called a "compliment."
> 
> I have spent some time in MONTANA.  The languague did not seem all that differt' than english.  But upon review of my conversations with CDAJEN, I do worry what I took wrong and whom I minght have inadvertaently offended during my visit there.



"All cleverly encased in a coy double ententre'" There was no double entendre here. I was referring to the term "circle jerk" in it's classic sense. i don't need a clever coy way to tell someone they are being a jerk. 

If you take issue with the things i've posted to you privately, which you allude to here, feel free to post my messages to you, along with your responses. You claimed to be delighted we could be friends, so don't make snide remarks in the forum if you are not willing to back them up.


----------



## Big Dog

cdajen said:


> As to my 30+ posts per day. I would say that most posts take under a minute or two to type, so 30+ per day doesn't consume much of my day.
> 
> I still don't understand why you're hung up on that number. I'd like to see Kane and a couple of the other "regs" numbers for the days since I've been here. I've not been replying to myself.



Jen you don't have to answer to the number of post you make, these guys are just being ridiculous!


----------



## cdajen

Thank you big dog


----------



## Kane

cdajen said:


> Thank you, but I don't need a "cooling off" period. Given how many accusations and claims have been made about me in only 1 days, I can only imagine what would be here after 3.
> 
> As to Obama's "sealed records". The entire premise is faulty.  The idea that any Obama record is “sealed” is a falsehood, to start. The word “sealed” when applied to documents ordinarily refers to records that would normally be public, but that a judge has ruled cannot be released without the court’s permission. Common examples of truly “sealed” documents include records of crimes committed as a juvenile or records of adoptions.
> 
> In some cases, the records this screed claims are “sealed” are actually public, and open for anyone to see. Other supposedly “sealed” records are normally private documents that Obama hasn’t released — and that other presidential candidates haven’t released either.
> 
> Obama’s college records are not “sealed” by a court order, . It would be illegal under federal law (the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act of 1974) for Occidental, Columbia or Harvard Law School to give any former student’s records to reporters or members of the public without that person’s specific, written permission. Obama hasn’t released them, but neither have other presidential candidates released their college records. George W. Bush’s grades at Yale eventually became public, but only because somebody leaked them to the New Yorker magazine. Bush himself refused to release them, according to a 1999 profile in the Washington Post.
> 
> Obama’s Selective Service registration is public. A copy has been posted publicly, and the Selective Service confirmed that Obama registered for the draft on Sept. 4, 1980, and was given registration number 61-1125539-1.
> Worth noting is that nobody in the U.S. has been drafted for military service since 1972, the year Obama turned 11. Obama, like other young men turning age 18 since then, was required to register on a standby basis, in case Congress ever resumes an active military draft. Failure to register is technically a crime, and disqualifies a man for federal student aid or from holding certain federal jobs
> 
> Obama’s voting record in the Illinois state Senate is a matter of public record, and about as far from being “sealed” as one can imagine. Reporters extensively went over his votes in 2008.  Transcripts of Senate debates in which Obama took part while in office (1997 – 2004) can even be found online, at the website of the Illinois General Assembly.
> 
> The claim that Obama’s birth certificate is “sealed” is pure nonsense. Copies of both the so-called “short” and “long” certificates have been released, and state officials in Hawaii have said repeatedly that Obama was born there in 1961 and is a “natural born American citizen.”
> 
> If you find something I've posted here is factually inaccurate I encourage you to challenge it.


Again, jen, it is common adult courtesy when cutting and pasting published print that we cite the deserving source.  Otherwise, we walk into the gray area of plagiarism.  

Well, actually this ain't so gray.


.


----------



## FrancSevin

cdajen said:


> "All cleverly encased in a coy double ententre'" There was no double entendre here. I was referring to the term "circle jerk" in it's classic sense. i don't need a clever coy way to tell someone they are being a jerk.
> 
> If you take issue with the things i've posted to you privately, which you allude to here, feel free to post my messages to you, along with your responses. You claimed to be delighted we could be friends, so don't make snide remarks in the forum if you are not willing to back them up.


 
I shared your first PM privately with one personhere whom I trust implicitly. To get a sense of it. Because mine was opposite of what you expected. I also showed it to my wife and several other members of my family because I could not fathom it as a compliment. Neither could they.

I won't post your PM's publicaly here. That is truely bad form. But I will most certainaly let others know that I have one and what measure I took of you from it. 

And how surprised and dissapointed I was when, after we exchanged pleasantries, you began this thread in which you once again admonished me. 

That gives my _opinion_ a footing of varacity, Some reasonableness, and not just something I casualy made up from some "feelings"

As for friends, I would have been delighted were you sincere. I subsequently have reasoned that to be unlikely. I would prefer our discussions to be friendly.

We can try.  But given your ying yanging of our relationship so far, I'm hardly motivated.


Some people just cannot get along well. I am certainly an example of that. However, I'm old and stubborn. An acceptable excuse after a life of managing, hiring, firing, and being BS'ed by thousands of people.

You are young and can learn to be better at comunicating "nice". I merely and respectfuly suggest you try.


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## Catavenger

Catavenger 5 per day


Wow you can tell I have to much time on my hands oh well I don't want to _rehash this_


----------



## BigAl RIP

Bottom Line Folks ..... You have to ask to join the debate dicussion section . Right at the top , it tells you it can get quite heated in this section . If you don't have your figures or facts in line , expect to get creamed by the opposite side .


Since time started , folks have had different opinions of subjects and conversations . Some just like to hear themselves talk .

Word of advice : If someone has to put you down or start making low comments about you in a personal attack in a debate ,,,,,,, You have won the debate .Only a loser try's that trick .

Only the low life debaters would even resort to this type of debating and really need to move on the the Weather section . 


*So , I hope you stay !* I hope you continue to believe in your opinions and have the guts to post them , if you wish too .Just be ready for someone elses opinion , that they believe in as much as you do yours .

Its a well known fact (by me) that anyone living East of the Rockie Mountains is as crazy as a "Bed Bug" anyway , so why even worry about it ....


----------



## SShepherd

BigAl said:


> Bottom Line Folks ..... You have to ask to join the debate dicussion section . Right at the top , it tells you it can get quite heated in this section . If you don't have your figures or facts in line , expect to get creamed by the opposite side .
> 
> 
> Since time started , folks have had different opinions of subjects and conversations . Some just like to him themselves talk .
> 
> Word of advice : If someone has to put you down or start making low comments about you in a personal attack in a debate ,,,,,,, You have won the debate .Only a loser try's that trick .
> 
> Only the low life debaters would even resort to this type of debating and really need to move on the the Weather section .
> 
> 
> *So , I hope you stay !* I hope you continue to believe in your opinions and have the guts to post them , if you wish too .Just be ready for someone elses opinion , that they believe in as much as you do yours .
> 
> *Its a well known fact (by me) that anyone living East of the Rockie Mountains is as crazy as a "Bed Bug" anyway* , so why even worry about it ....


 ya well, all you left coasters water runs the wrong direction


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## DaveNay

SShepherd said:


> ya well, all you left coasters water runs the wrong direction



Ummmm...that would be down under, not left coast. (and it's wrong anyway)


----------



## mak2

cite references please.  Common knowlege dont count.  


DaveNay said:


> Ummmm...that would be down under, not left coast. (and it's wrong anyway)


----------



## muleman RIP

*Its a well known fact (by me) that anyone living East of the Rockie Mountains is as crazy as a "Bed Bug" anyway* , so why even worry about it ....

While I have to agree somewhat with this assessment, There are some well known facts about ex- Californians but the visual evidence causes too much illness for folks.


----------



## DaveNay

mak2 said:


> cite references please.  Common knowlege dont count.



My reference is called Vin.


----------



## muleman RIP

By the way, the water up here runs north and south in the same township. Sometimes when I have to pee I drive a few miles to send it down the Allegheny to Luvs and Big dog or I just piss off the porch and know it will end up in Rusty's water. If I head north a few miles it flows to lake Ontario for Groomerguy!


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## SShepherd

DaveNay said:


> Ummmm...that would be down under, not left coast. (and it's wrong anyway)


 no, their water goes to the left coast...it's called the great divide.

I know what your talking about though


----------

