# Snow Cats are expensive so I Built this.



## farm-tim

Snow Cats are expensive so I Built this. I tested it last weekend, we used it for the 14 mile off road adveture to our cabin in Michigans upper paninsula. It worked incredibly well on the groomed snowmobile trails and I was really pleased when we left the trail for the last four miles to the cabin. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKr61XRRAd4"]YouTube        - Ford explorer Snow truck, Half Track. pt.4[/ame]


----------



## pirate_girl

That's cool!
Welcome Farm Tim!


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Very cool!


----------



## Av8r3400

How can to get that on the snowmobile trails?  Way over the width limitation...  ?


----------



## farm-tim

hears more
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSnlRPFXGmI"]YouTube        - Ford Explorer half track on the trail.[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9I2iQMp3zDk"]YouTube        - Ford explorer Snow truck, Half Track. pt. 5[/ame]


----------



## Melensdad

I'd be willing to bet that is a lot more comfortable to ride in than a typical snow cat, a lot quieter too.

Did you build the rear tracks or were those pre-made bolt on units like Mattracks?  

How about some close up photos of the ski-construction?  Ditto close up photos of the tracks!!!


----------



## farm-tim

Av8r3400 said:


> How can to get that on the snowmobile trails? Way over the width limitation... ?


   The main trail we use is a seasonal road after that its all nonmaintained roads. I checked with the DNR they said no prob. Then I told them my wife was disabled and they said go were you want just be carefull.


----------



## farm-tim

Melensdad said:


> I'd be willing to bet that is a lot more comfortable to ride in than a typical snow cat, a lot quieter too.
> 
> Did you build the rear tracks or were those pre-made bolt on units like Mattracks?
> 
> How about some close up photos of the ski-construction? Ditto close up photos of the tracks!!!


 
  I built the whole thing.. I had good help too , It took about 40 hours or so.


----------



## weatherby

Welcome to the Forum Farm Tim

I took a look at your creation last week when you were in town (Paradise) "very nice"

I live about eight mi north of town.


----------



## Melensdad

farm-tim said:


> I built the whole thing.. I had good help too , It took about 40 hours or so.



Very impressive.  

Its nice to have you here at the Snowcat Forums of the ForumsForums 

What else have you built?  Oh, and we need photos


----------



## farm-tim

weatherby said:


> Welcome to the Forum Farm Tim
> 
> I took a look at your creation last week when you were in town (Paradise) "very nice"
> 
> I live about eight mi north of town.


 Cool thanks... I also need to say Coodos to the Paradise snowmobile club, Especially Mike who when it broke pulled it up to the groomer barn and welded up my weak spot. Verry cool people and fellow gear heads.


----------



## farm-tim

Ive also built This....


----------



## Melensdad

You are my new HERO


----------



## weatherby

farm-tim said:


> Cool thanks... I also need to say Coodos to the Paradise snowmobile club, Especially Mike who when it broke pulled it up to the groomer barn and welded up my weak spot. Verry cool people and fellow gear heads.



If Mike Dezs hasn't seen this yet, he needs to, he has been creating something close to your design for his Jeep. I'm assuming your back in off of farm truck RD.
or Betsy lake?
Did Mike C. pull you in with the Bombi?


----------



## farm-tim

and rebuilt these...


----------



## farm-tim

weatherby said:


> If Mike Dezs hasn't seen this yet, he needs to, he has been creating something close to your design for his Jeep. I'm assuming your back in off of farm truck RD.
> or Betsy lake?
> Did Mike C. pull you in with the Bombi?


 
 Mike Dezs took pictures. and yes they pulled it in with the groomer but it broke in their parking lot, after about the third trip to the cabin. and yes, our place is about a mile north of the New bridge.


----------



## farm-tim

close ups...


----------



## Cletis

Cool.
How's it steer?  Did you have to put a rib on the bottom of the skis to get some bite while turning?

Also, I call dibs on the army jeep!!!!!!!!!!!

Cletis


----------



## Snowtrac Nome

man i love that old m38a-1


----------



## Ice Queen

Wow!


----------



## farm-tim

Cletis said:


> Cool.
> How's it steer? Did you have to put a rib on the bottom of the skis to get some bite while turning?
> 
> Also, I call dibs on the army jeep!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Cletis


   The skis are really simple, They are a 4 inch channell with the ends bent up under that I used a piece of 3/8" plastic that we use on the bottom of semi trailers (kind if a bed liner on royds) it is sandwiched in place by a 1"x3/4" piece of flat stock. It will turn in its normall radious in most cases, I would say it turns better than my sled.


----------



## farm-tim

dds said:


> man i love that old m38a-1


 Sorry man its just an old cj standard with the drab paint. but it sure is fun, thats how we travel around the UP in the summer time.


----------



## luv2weld

Welcome to the forum!
I just found my next project!!!!!
Can you give me the details on the tracks???
The skis look pretty easy to fabricate. The drive wheel looks like it is a wider
than stock wheel with bars(???) welded across it. And a track (belt) from a
snowmobile. Track adjustment with the magenta boogies on the rear??

I've got an old Bronco II just begging for this modification!!!

Ralph


----------



## farm-tim

luv2weld said:


> Welcome to the forum!
> I just found my next project!!!!!
> Can you give me the details on the tracks???
> The skis look pretty easy to fabricate. The drive wheel looks like it is a wider
> than stock wheel with bars(???) welded across it. And a track (belt) from a
> snowmobile. Track adjustment with the magenta boogies on the rear??
> 
> I've got an old Bronco II just begging for this modification!!!
> 
> Ralph


 The tracks are 138" snowmobile tracks on standard 121 frames. you need to add front bogies, yes tension with the rear set. The wheels are or were 15 x 8, you need to turn them down a little and weld on 20 1/2" round stock bars. 
  I thought about using a 4x4 unit for this thing but after building this one I see no need for four wheel drive. we were in 2 feet of undisturbed snow in the video on the trail and have no truble with it. 
   Or ya'll could just be patient, ... Im going to sell this one in late feb...


----------



## farm-tim

mabe sooner if the right offer comes along !!!!


----------



## JackieBlue

Wow that's awesome!


----------



## 300 H and H

I am sure it works on a flat trail with 2 feet or less snow. But less sure it would work in a wide road ditch full of snow 4-5 or more feet deep. What keeps the front ski's from coming around if they are bolted onto the hubs? That would be nasty of you nosed it over into a ditch full of snow and they caught, rolling them into the rocker panels. If you weigh it and divide it by it's foot print in inches, to get PSI, I am betting 5lb/in sq. and that is good for say mud, but so good in snow, especially deep non reactionary snow. ( deep enough it doesn't put the weight to the actual ground under the cat) Good "snow cat" territory is more like 1.5lb/in.sq. and less....

I do however live in flat farm country and see the utility of this for accessing fields in the winter, if you use field drives to get into them.

Neat work for sure. Nothing like a farmer with a good shop and some time on his hands.......Winter! I know, I am one too!

Best regards, Kirk


----------



## farm-tim

300 H and H said:


> I am sure it works on a flat trail with 2 feet or less snow. But less sure it would work in a wide road ditch full of snow 4-5 or more feet deep. What keeps the front ski's from coming around if they are bolted onto the hubs? That would be nasty of you nosed it over into a ditch full of snow and they caught, rolling them into the rocker panels. If you weigh it and divide it by it's foot print in inches, to get PSI, I am betting 5lb/in sq. and that is good for say mud, but so good in snow, especially deep non reactionary snow. ( deep enough it doesn't put the weight to the actual ground under the cat) Good "snow cat" territory is more like 1.5lb/in.sq. and less....
> 
> I do however live in flat farm country and see the utility of this for accessing fields in the winter, if you use field drives to get into them.
> 
> Neat work for sure. Nothing like a farmer with a good shop and some time on his hands.......Winter! I know, I am one too!
> 
> Best regards, Kirk


Actually I weighed it before we ever started (another reason to go 2wd) The Tracks put down 900 Sq Inch while the skis only put down 720. Times that by 2 and get 3,240 sq inchs ... put a 3,970# vehicle on top and your putting down 1.2253086419 Lbs/sq in. about .  
While I do agree that Im not exacly distributing the weight properly (but I could with bigger skis) I Am running down the trail at up to 50 mph while most sno cats go about 12 mph while trying to remove your fillings and cost $15,000 for a piece of $#!t. 
I have also welded a piece of steel to the back of the brake roter wher the caliper used to be to limit travel. 
As for crossing a ditch,.... Ill just stay on the trail.
  I dont really need to check a field during the winter, I just wanted to go to the cabin. 
  But for now Im off to the bahamas for a week,... Ill check back in a week. To see if anyone has any constuctive critisism that may help further projects. 
        Tim


----------



## sutluc

Do you happen to have a picture of the back side of your track assembly? I'm interested in how you mounted the track frame.


----------



## 300 H and H

Calling the snow cats here a 12 mph, $15K piece of @&%$ is not what I had in mind when I was looking at your machine.....
As for your ride, I don't think this would do well against a machine with 1.5 lb. ground preasure, as most groomers are in this area of down preasure. The true snow cat is not pushing ski's, all the area is under powered tracks, not ski's. A 40 some year old Snow Trac is at .75 psi. and goes 20 mph (nearly 30 mph with gears) and the ride is smooth if the snow is 6" deep. And it will go places in deep snow your creation will not go....

As for the $15K you suggest is too much to pay for a true snow cat...Well just ask the snow cat owners here about that.... I guess in your mind we are all fools? for spending our money on one? 

Gee thanks,

Kirk


----------



## farm-tim

300 H and H said:


> Calling the snow cats here a 12 mph, $15K piece of @&%$ is not what I had in mind when I was looking at your machine.....
> As for your ride, I don't think this would do well against a machine with 1.5 lb. ground preasure, as most goomers are in this area of down preasure. The true snow cat is not pushing ski's, all the area is under powered tracks, not ski's. A 40 some year old Snow Trac is at .75 psi. and goes 20 mph (nearly 30 mph with gears) and the ride is smooth if the snow is 6" deep. And it will go places in deep snow your creation will not go....
> 
> As for the $15K you suggest is too much to pay for a true snow cat...Well just ask the snow cat owners here about that.... I guess in your mind we are all fools? for spending our money on one?
> 
> Gee thanks,
> 
> Kirk


  I never said all your sno cats were junk I said " cost $15,000 for a piece of $#!t." most here cost or are worth more than that.
  I think snocats are awsome but I have the ability to spend less and build a machine that get me everywere I need to go. 

   There is one of you on every forum who sit and carefully plot your next move from the saftey of your little office. I will not be drawn into a battle of witts with you, for it is better to be quiet and thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt. 
   By the way what type of machine did you build?
    Tim



Ahh the internet,.. were men are men, and wemen are men, and 15 year old girls are FBI agents.


----------



## Cowboy

Welcome farm-tim & thanks for sharing you build's & rebuilds as well as pics and vids. 

 I love seeing a creative mind & talented hands at work using what you have or find laying around to put to good use for ones own needs . 

 I hope you stick around to share more & progress pics during rebuild I also find very interesting . I dont own or even have the need for any kind of tracked machine , but that dont mean I dont think I need one & like yourself I would rather make my own then buy one . 

 BTW that neat 4 seater buggy reminds me of a skinless humvee only neater .


----------



## 300 H and H

Farm Tim,

I am sorry if I offended you. It was not my intent at all. I am no internet bully, and do not wish for anyone to think this of me.....

This being a public forum, and others who admire your work as I do as well, may try and emulate your ideas, and build one of their own. I only wish to point out some things that should be considered if they do....

You did the math, and your happy with that. Your a seasoned builder and have much to be proud of. I admire you, and I wish not to take anything away from that. I have not built anything nearly as nice as your 4 seat buggy......

I though from the title of the thread that you were implying that this a viable alternative to a true snow cat, and it is for your situation, but perhaps not everyone elses...

Sorry, Hope you have a Great trip!

Kirk


----------



## AAUTOFAB1

Nice ride,warm heater,and i assume a tasty beverage holder?  verry cool


----------



## Bulldog1401

farm-tim said:


> I built the whole thing.. I had good help too , It took about 40 hours or so.



You have very impressive fabrication skills. 

Your design is how the tuckers started out. 

And the Bombardier B-12's, etc.. ran that design very sucessfully for years (and still do).

Welcome to the forums and please feel free to share more of your work here. It is postings like yours that help the rest  of us solve the problems we run into in modifying our machines. Thank You.


----------



## DAVENET

That is a cool ass idea. 

But I would (personally) be worried about hitting a rock in a turn and side loading the ski to the breaking point w/ no triangulation.  Have you noticed any flex or bend around the hubs yet?


----------



## farm-tim

no probs yet but I do have the same concerns, i tried to come up with a way to triangulate it but I cant see how. Ill just wait for it to break then seek and distroy, as usuall. so far ive got about a hundred miles on it and am very pleased. I was especially suprised with this last snow, we had about a foot on the level so there were up to 6 foot drifts. I can take it anywere you can go with a snowmobile, It seems to sink in about a foot then floats really well. the problem then is turning, it want to tipp out from the turn. But if you slow down to say 10 or so it turns really short. If you stop in really deep snow it will dig down2 feet or so untill you pick up speed. Havent got it stuck yet but ill keep trying. 
 Tim


----------



## muleman RIP

Tim, You should be able to add long tapered ribs on the side of the down post by slicing a piece of 3/8 flat stock diagonally. Like 2 long wedges to stiffen it a bit.


----------



## Av8r3400

Tim-- Do you have a "traction aiding" differential on it or just the open diff?


----------



## e2spear

The arms look cool, but how come you did not cut out some steel rails instead of aluminum?


----------



## farm-tim

Av8r3400 said:


> Tim-- Do you have a "traction aiding" differential on it or just the open diff?


 Factory limited slip.


----------



## farm-tim

e2spear said:


> The arms look cool, but how come you did not cut out some steel rails instead of aluminum?


  Because I had the aluminum ones... im all about the junk yard..


----------



## Big Dog

Well I'm gonna ask, how are the front ski's affixed. Are they solid mounted or movable, meaning will they roll with the terrain? If so how is it prevented from them rolling under the vehicle. I'm assuming solid but the way they are mounted looks like they would turn like a wheel. My snow machine novice is coming out ............. 
*

Never mind, I should have read the whole thread ..............!*


----------



## DynatracGuy

I am so impressed!  Welcome to the snowcat community.  You are an inspiration to the rest of us.  I'll bet your wife loves to get out with your creations.   She's very lucky.


----------



## AAUTOFAB1

I'm wondering now how the stock hyfax on the snowmobile track is wearing? you notice any melting of the nylon?


----------



## Northcoast

Your creation looks like a very fun,yet practical version of a cross between a snowmobile and a snowcat. Your pictures almost make me think that I could actually build one! I have a tucker 2000,but I see where your machine would work great on a lot of the roads I run on. I hope you keep us posted on any modifications or problems you experience. I would think that several of the midwest snowmobile clubs would be very interested in your creation for use as a groomer on their trails. Mattracks are cool,but very expensive.     cheers


----------



## fogtender

Very nice job and use of the snow machine track system for the drives!  I like the way you did the rim for the snow machine track lugs.

One question I have though, the front skis have a pretty long leg on them and is fairly thin.  I would think that you may have some issues in the future with them flipping out in a rough turn.  A friend had built something similar, and had skis like that, in a turn they bent out and messed up things a bit, he rebuilt the skis and made them a tad shorter and wider so the legs were more spread out, like an "A-Frame", but with four legs instead of the two and didn't have any further issues until it burnt up...that was an electrical issue...lol


----------



## farm-tim

AAUTOFAB1 said:


> I'm wondering now how the stock hyfax on the snowmobile track is wearing? you notice any melting of the nylon?


  I havnt seen a problem yet. The rear axle weight is around 2000#'s that is 1000 per track. My 2 up pantera 800 wieghs in at 700 I weigh 220 wife adds a little more making a total of about 1000 or more with gear and sometimes lugage. do you see my point.
   Tim


----------



## farm-tim

fogtender said:


> Very nice job and use of the snow machine track system for the drives! I like the way you did the rim for the snow machine track lugs.
> 
> One question I have though, the front skis have a pretty long leg on them and is fairly thin. I would think that you may have some issues in the future with them flipping out in a rough turn. A friend had built something similar, and had skis like that, in a turn they bent out and messed up things a bit, he rebuilt the skis and made them a tad shorter and wider so the legs were more spread out, like an "A-Frame", but with four legs instead of the two and didn't have any further issues until it burnt up...that was an electrical issue...lol


    Again I was originally concerned with this too but so far I dont see a need to change anything, and I have already given them a few oportunitys to fail and the havent bent a bit. I did use 1/4" wall tubbing on them.


----------



## farm-tim

hey Kevin we are going to Paradise this Saturday for                           _Mardi Gras De Snow 
[URL="http://www.paradisemichigan.org"]www.paradisemichigan.org[/URL]  ​​​​_​


----------



## farm-tim

Think youll be around ?


----------



## AAUTOFAB1

farm-tim said:


> I havnt seen a problem yet. The rear axle weight is around 2000#'s that is 1000 per track. My 2 up pantera 800 wieghs in at 700 I weigh 220 wife adds a little more making a total of about 1000 or more with gear and sometimes lugage. do you see my point.
> Tim


 

Well it looks great.  sounds like its runing cool,


----------



## fogtender

farm-tim said:


> Again I was originally concerned with this too but so far I dont see a need to change anything, and I have already given them a few oportunitys to fail and the havent bent a bit. I did use 1/4" wall tubbing on them.


 
That is good!  Hope you don't have issues with them at all!

Really sucks trying to fix something miles from nowhere!  Roughwoods had an axle break on his Imp about seventy miles from nowhere and it took almost a year to get it back to town after the summer boat trips out to fix it and the winter snowmachine trips to bring it back.


----------



## farm-tim

made the trip well but it is going on e-bay yet this week. ive got some ideas for a full track version. besides that I would rather build this stuff than drive it.


----------



## redsqwrl

Don't forget a link for us novice ebay shoppers.

Mike in WI


----------



## farm-tim

redsqwrl said:


> Don't forget a link for us novice ebay shoppers.
> 
> Mike in WI


 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...751556108&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK:MESELX:IT

     Bid high and bid often   
               Tim


----------



## deepmud

Check this thread for build ideas on 4-track versions.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?p=14050981#post14050981

It's a longish thread but worth the time.


----------



## deepmud

Melensdad said:


> I'd be willing to bet that is a lot more comfortable to ride in than a typical snow cat, a lot quieter too.
> 
> Did you build the rear tracks or were those pre-made bolt on units like Mattracks?
> 
> How about some close up photos of the ski-construction?  Ditto close up photos of the tracks!!!



I cropped this from farm-tim's video (farm-tim, this technically violates your copywright- pm me and the pic comes down)







Pic of the tracks on my Suzuki when I got them ( a very low-snow winter it was.....)





You can see the unsupported inner edge - they bent when I drove over roots n such on light snow.


It looks like the carriage is clamped to the axle - I don't see bushings to allow flex but they may be there. 

I'm especially interested because one of my sets of tracks has only a support on the outer edge, and it's weak.






The roller wheels are a band-aid I'm going to put on there to make them work this winter.


----------



## JackOfAllTradesRuss

Farm-Tim, You done a excellant job, I like it and all the You tubes you posted too.
I just completed a little fabrication job,nothing big like yours. Made a snow cab for my little Kubota Lawn & Garden Tractor. Thanks for looking, Russ
http://s547.photobucket.com/albums/hh465/JackOfAllTradesRuss/


----------

