# Iowa about to screw with MY E10...



## 300 H and H

The pipline companies in our state anounced today thatt they will no long recieve 87 octane regular through the pipe lines. It will now flow 84 octane, UNSALABLE BY STATE LAW crap. Then the 10% ethanol will get it up to 87.... Meanwhile the cost of 87 without ethanol will go up as much as 40 cents, if you can find anyone who trucks it in. 

I am not against ethanol, but I am against the removal of choice from the market place. I also liked 90+ octane E10, but always stayed away from 87 octane E10 when out of state, basically the only times I saw it for sale. They are taking away 2 points of octane and selling for the same price, taking advantage of the situation. I don't think 84 should be alowed to enter the state, as it cann't be sold with out the 10% added ethanol.

This move on their part will effectively end the choice we have had on E10 for 35 years in Iowa. Of course it is legal. I can still be pissed off by it...

Regards, Kirk


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## Kane

Oh, the irony.


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## 300 H and H

Ok, 

But at least I am a good sport about it....

I present and feel both sides of the arguement. Remember that...

Regards, Kirk


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## EastTexFrank

Strange.  In our part of East Texas there has been a resurgance of ethanol free gasoline for sale.  The local Exxon distributer, after a 2-year battle with the EPA, has reopened under new management and they are offering ethanol free gas direct to the public.  That obviously put a dent in the profits of the other filling stations in town and now two of those have begun to offer ethanol free gas.  It's getting more and more interesting all the time.  We'll have to see just how far the whole thing goes.


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## muleman RIP

We only have one place within 40 miles that sell ethanol free.


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## FrancSevin

To point out the obvius,,,,,most small engines are at risk of damage with E-10 fuels yet are built to run on 87 octane.

Pure stupidity or burocratic malfeciance?

Either way, it is the power of the gubmint, not the people.


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## Dargo

EastTexFrank said:


> Strange.  In our part of East Texas there has been a resurgance of ethanol free gasoline for sale.  The local Exxon distributer, after a 2-year battle with the EPA, has reopened under new management and they are offering ethanol free gas direct to the public.  That obviously put a dent in the profits of the other filling stations in town and now two of those have begun to offer ethanol free gas.  It's getting more and more interesting all the time.  We'll have to see just how far the whole thing goes.



Where I live we have had that garbage gas that only gets 87 octane with 10% (sometimes tested as high as 22% - remember, the alcohol is cheaper than gasoline) alcohol.  Since I my hometown is on the Ohio River, boating and water sports and recreation is a huge business.  After countless boats have been ruined by alcohol in their fuel (remember, many of those people had their fuel tested and it has almost always been higher than 10% alcohol) and left stranded adrift, just a target for a huge floating 5 acre size barge to hit, several local gas stations have started selling "off road" 100% gasoline with 93 octane.  Those places seem to always be busy with boaters, motorcycles and cars in line even though it is about .40c more per gallon than regular 87 octane gas/alcohol mix.

My Acura TL requires premium fuel and I have well documented that I get 29 mpg on the highway with 92 octane gas/alcohol mix and 34 mpg with the 93 octane pure gasoline.  I keep at least a couple 5 gallon cans of the regular high octane gasoline around for my small engine equipment and my motorcycles and 4 wheelers.  I hope these places are able to continue to get straight gasoline.  They seem worried that they won't be able to continue to get pure gasoline.  It would really suck having no choice but to run garbage in my gasoline powered equipment and vehicles.


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## jimbo

Dargo said:


> Where I live we have had that garbage gas that only gets 87 octane with 10% (sometimes tested as high as 22% - remember, the alcohol is cheaper than gasoline) alcohol.  Since I my hometown is on the Ohio River, boating and water sports and recreation is a huge business.  After countless boats have been ruined by alcohol in their fuel (remember, many of those people had their fuel tested and it has almost always been higher than 10% alcohol) and left stranded adrift, just a target for a huge floating 5 acre size barge to hit, several local gas stations have started selling "off road" 100% gasoline with 93 octane.  Those places seem to always be busy with boaters, motorcycles and cars in line even though it is about .40c more per gallon than regular 87 octane gas/alcohol mix.
> 
> My Acura TL requires premium fuel and I have well documented that I get 29 mpg on the highway with 92 octane gas/alcohol mix and 34 mpg with the 93 octane pure gasoline.  I keep at least a couple 5 gallon cans of the regular high octane gasoline around for my small engine equipment and my motorcycles and 4 wheelers.  I hope these places are able to continue to get straight gasoline.  They seem worried that they won't be able to continue to get pure gasoline.  It would really suck having no choice but to run garbage in my gasoline powered equipment and vehicles.



My experience with e10 vs real gas is about the same.  My  GMC PU gets 380 miles/tank with e10, and 420 with regular non alcohol.  

Unfortunately pure gas is not available anywhere near me.  Last tank I bought was in Kansas.


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## FrancSevin

Milage,

Of all the lies about ETOH this is one of the biggest and best kept.  ETOH has only half the energy of Gasoline per gallon.  So E-10 will provide 5% less energy per gallon and consequenly 5% less milage.

So, siince pure gas is 40 cents more a gallon, you recover about half of it in milage.  Sadly it isn't priced at 20 cents per gallon more. Then it would be an even trade off, people would notice, and the gig would be up.

Etoh has made a lot of people rich.  But, it has done nothing for theenvironment, and very little good for most members of the middle class.  Ya know, the ones who own chainsaws,  older motorcycles and outboard motors.


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## 300 H and H

Ethanol has also created jobs in the heartland, some 50,000+ well paying jobs. It has built an infrastructure for the future to make ethanol for years to come. Along with fracking it has eased our dependance on imported energy. The industry is paying it's share of taxs too....And it has helped with a more fair price for corn. We don't waste it like we used to...

It has been good for rural America. It's just too bad it came to be at a time of collapse of the overall economy. If we still had a solid and healthy economy, I don't think it would have been the issue it is today. 

Also there needs to be choice, and it needs to be affordable. Hopefully we don't loose that here. The Crossy is not going to like 87 E10, where as the 91 octane E10 works well enough...

Regards, Kirk


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## FrancSevin

300 H and H said:


> Ethanol has also created jobs in the heartland, some 50,000+ well paying jobs. It has built an infrastructure for the future to make ethanol for years to come. Along with fracking it has eased our dependance on imported energy. The industry is paying it's share of taxs too....And it has helped with a more fair price for corn. We don't waste it like we used to...
> 
> It has been good for rural America. It's just too bad it came to be at a time of collapse of the overall economy. If we still had a solid and healthy economy, I don't think it would have been the issue it is today.
> 
> Also there needs to be choice, and it needs to be affordable. Hopefully we don't loose that here. The Crossy is not going to like 87 E10, where as the 91 octane E10 works well enough...
> 
> Regards, Kirk


 
What is wrong with you?
What sacrilege

What blasphemy

Never put 87 or 89 octane in that engine.
First, the timing will retard so much your mileage will go down. So you gain nothing.
Secondly, that is a fine German machine worthy of the good stuff.

Have some respect man.
Don't you make me come up there!!!!


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## muleman RIP

Frank! It ain't his car......Teenage girls need money for makeup and stuff so they only put in what is cheapest.


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## 300 H and H

Franc,

There is a BP station that has premium near here. And a Shell too. So maybe there will be a change when the low pro E10 hits town. Just wonder how much extra it will cost. My bet is 50 cents plus. The daughter will just have to bear the burden on the wages she is earning at the local A&W. Welcome to the real world, my little girl....

Regards, Kirk


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## Dargo

FrancSevin said:


> Milage,
> 
> Of all the lies about ETOH this is one of the biggest and best kept.  ETOH has only half the energy of Gasoline per gallon.  So E-10 will provide 5% less energy per gallon and consequenly 5% less milage.
> 
> So, siince pure gas is 40 cents more a gallon, you recover about half of it in milage.  Sadly it isn't priced at 20 cents per gallon more. Then it would be an even trade off, people would notice, and the gig would be up.
> 
> Etoh has made a lot of people rich.  But, it has done nothing for theenvironment, and very little good for most members of the middle class.  Ya know, the ones who own chainsaws,  older motorcycles and outboard motors.



I will agree with you completely.  I do not run the more expensive 93 octane ethanol free gasoline in my car because the increase in MPG is *not* enough to offset the cost.  Although I do tend to keep vehicles far longer now than I used to, I'll never be one of those setting any records for the most miles on their car.  At some point a vehicle simply becomes too unreliable and the $500-$1000 repairs come frequently and they really add up.  That is when I move to a newer model.  Like you, in general, I could drive whatever I want to drive.  However, also probably like you, I have zero desire to impress anyone with a depreciating asset

I do get far longer service out of my small engine equipment and heavy equipment than most because, to be blunt, I NEVER slide on maintenance and, on those, I never use alcohol laced fuel in the gasoline powered ones.  It seems that E10 really kills carb gaskets and fuel lines quickly.  I'm told that E10 has a longer shelf life than pure gasoline, but I never have gasoline of any sort sitting around very long.  I finally ran a diesel generator out of fuel and the diesel that was in it was approaching 9 years old but still burned fine and I have no clogged filters or algae in the tanks.  I do use additives in that diesel, so maybe that helps.

Either way, I'll completely agree that I want a choice in running E10 or paying the premium price for premium fuel.  I can tell you right now that the 572ci, 800hp big block in my old Biscayne runs like crap on E10 and my old 366ci big block in my 1975 GMC dump truck will spark knock and 'diesel' after shutting it off with E10.  I can stop the run-on easily by easing the clutch out when I shut it off, but it sure builds up heat fast spark knocking on the stuff.  It's like a different vehicle with pure 93 octane gasoline.  Clearly, it was never designed to run on E-anything.


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## jimbo

300 H and H said:


> Ethanol has also created jobs in the heartland, some 50,000+ well paying jobs. It has built an infrastructure for the future to make ethanol for years to come. Along with fracking it has eased our dependance on imported energy. The industry is paying it's share of taxs too....And it has helped with a more fair price for corn. We don't waste it like we used to...
> 
> It has been good for rural America. It's just too bad it came to be at a time of collapse of the overall economy. If we still had a solid and healthy economy, I don't think it would have been the issue it is today.
> 
> Also there needs to be choice, and it needs to be affordable. Hopefully we don't loose that here. The Crossy is not going to like 87 E10, where as the 91 octane E10 works well enough...
> 
> Regards, Kirk



None of what you say matters at all to a Virginia fuel user and food consumer who is forced to pay a far higher price for a product they don't want.  I agree that the consumer shoud have a choice, but if the choice is truly market with no subsidies or mandates, alcohol fuel would be gone in a week.  

I do think you have got the ecoomic thing backwards.  Alcohol did not come along at the economic downturn, rather the downturn was caused by programs such as this.


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## FrancSevin

jimbo said:


> None of what you say matters at all to a Virginia fuel user and food consumer who is forced to pay a far higher price for a product they don't want. I agree that the consumer shoud have a choice, but if the choice is truly market with no subsidies or mandates, alcohol fuel would be gone in a week.
> 
> I do think you have got the ecoomic thing backwards. Alcohol did not come along at the economic downturn, rather the downturn was caused by programs such as this.


 
Good points sir!

And to the point of the original post here, the pipelines won't run the ETOH, not by choice, but for a very fundimental reason. They simply cannot run ETOH without risk of damage. That is why they are refusing to run E-15. Even the E-10 is corrosive to their infastructure. Their equipment is as intolerant of the ETOH crap as ours.

Folks in Virginia do not grow corn for ETOH. Folks in Iowa do. Virginians ought to be able to say _"let them Hawkeyes keep their crap inside the state."_


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## Kane

Burning corn in our cars is just plain silly.  Being forced to do it is despicable.


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