# Micro hydro



## DaveNay

This isn't exactly a prep question, but this is probably the best fit.

Next Friday I am headed up to the cabin in Canada for fishing. We run a generator at least 8 hours per day to keep a chest freezer frozen with our rations and take-home fish.

I'd like to install a 1000W micro-hydro generator and a couple batteries and an inverter to run the freezer and cabin lights. I have all the math worked out for the power generation and consumption, but I'd like to know if anyone has any experience with a system like this from a mechanics point of view...installation, use, maintenance, etc.


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## EastTexFrank

No experience but micro hydro has always been something that intrigued me.  When you're up in Canada remember the camera.  If you ever get round to installing the thing I want a blow by blow account of the installation and hook-up.


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## Garmins_Dad

Where will the batteries be left when your not there??? I would think limited use and freeze thaw would make em useless fast...


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## DaveNay

Garmins_Dad said:


> Where will the batteries be left when your not there??? I would think limited use and freeze thaw would make em useless fast...



There is a family member that lives up there and uses the cabin as his guide base camp. He uses the cabin throughout the year. During the worst of the winter, the batteries would be brought to his house in the basement.


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## Garmins_Dad

Good to hear.. i hate to hear of wasting something so expensive...


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## DaveNay

Garmins_Dad said:


> Good to hear.. i hate to hear of wasting something so expensive...



This is in Snow Lake, MB which is about 100Km further north than Edmonton is.


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## Garmins_Dad

Im East of Edmonton... WHY on Gods green earth do you come up here to enjoy time away.. I was raised in South Texas.. I sure miss home..

BTW.. DE Kalb county is nice.. I was down your way two years ago..


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## DaveNay

Garmins_Dad said:


> Im East of Edmonton... WHY on Gods green earth do you come up here to enjoy time away.. I was raised in South Texas.. I sure miss home..
> 
> BTW.. DE Kalb county is nice.. I was down your way two years ago..



Because it's 10 days of fishing with the lake almost entirely to ourselves, no cell phone and no internet service.

And since it's family, we only pay for food and gas.


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## Garmins_Dad

Well those are all good reasons... Enjoy your trip..


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## DaveNay

Garmins_Dad said:


> Well those are all good reasons... Enjoy your trip..



I always do!


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## squerly

Nice cabin.  Did your family build it?


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## DaveNay

squerly said:


> Nice cabin.  Did your family build it?



No, it was built quite a while ago (50's?) by a fur trapper. He sold it to a couple of distant cousin's on my wife's side. It has since been consumed by a provincial forest and can never leave the family (except to a native). There are only 5 cabins on the entire lake, and there can never be more built.


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## loboloco

Back to the hydro.
Dave what kind of waterhead are you talking about?  Is it freefall (falls or dam).  Is it a pipe fed?   If pipe fed and of sufficient diameter a small turbine might make sense.


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## squerly

So where do you plan to put the hydro generator at?


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## squerly

Oops, lobo beat me to it...


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## DaveNay

loboloco said:


> Back to the hydro.
> Dave what kind of waterhead are you talking about?  Is it freefall (falls or dam).  Is it a pipe fed?   If pipe fed and of sufficient diameter a small turbine might make sense.



We are going to look at two options...

First is a low head generator such as the PowerSpout LH. This would take it's supply from the ponds and creek behind the cabin.

Second option is to build our own paddle wheel rig placed out in the main channel of the river. This is a zero head application, but has all the flow we could ever want (120' wide x 50'-60' deep). A 12' diameter wheel 3' or 4' wide geared up to drive the generator.

Nothing will happen this year, this will just be surveying and planning. (And of course determining the overall feasibility)


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## squerly

OK, so the hydro is in and producing DC current.  Will you then use an inverter or leave it DC?


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## DaveNay

squerly said:


> OK, so the hydro is in and producing DC current.  Will you then use an inverter or leave it DC?



The generator actually generates wild 3 phase AC (which is good if you need to locate the generator far from the cabin). This is then rectified to DC and fed into a charge controller. The charge controller does two things...first it charges the batteries, and just as importantly, when the batteries are charged, it diverts the current from the generator to a dump load (an electric hot water heater or similar). You can't just simply disconnect the battery load because the unloaded generator will over-speed, over-voltage and die a quick painful death.

We are looking at a pure sine wave 1000w rectifier to feed the cabin from the batteries. We don't want to convert everything from the existing 120V generator  fed circuits to 12 or 24Vdc from the batteries.


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## squerly

DaveNay said:


> The generator actually generates wild 3 phase AC (which is good if you need to locate the generator far from the cabin). This is then rectified to DC and fed into a charge controller. The charge controller does two things...first it charges the batteries, and just as importantly, when the batteries are charged, it diverts the current from the generator to a dump load (an electric hot water heater or similar). You can't just simply disconnect the battery load because the unloaded generator will over-speed, over-voltage and die a quick painful death.
> 
> We are looking at a pure sine wave 1000w rectifier to feed the cabin from the batteries. We don't want to convert everything from the existing 120V generator fed circuits to 12 or 24Vdc from the batteries.


That's super! In my efforts to create power at our cabin I'm faced with less than continous power supplies (i.e. the sun). Sounds like you're not going to have that problem. A couple of questions if you don't mind. How big is your battery bank going to be and what kind of batteries are you plannng on using? Given your power source is continuous it wouldn't seem like you have to worry about storing a lot of extra reserve.


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## DaveNay

squerly said:


> That's super! In my efforts to create power at our cabin I'm faced with less than continous power supplies (i.e. the sun). Sounds like you're not going to have that problem. A couple of questions if you don't mind. How big is your battery bank going to be and what kind of batteries are you plannng on using? Given your power source is continuous it wouldn't seem like you have to worry about storing a lot of extra reserve.



We haven't nailed ANYTHING down yet....

The battery bank will indeed be very small. I'm thinking only two 225Ah batteries in parallel. Theoretically, a single battery will work with the loads I have calculated, but it will only be a couple hundred dollars to add a second battery for a comfort factor.

And everything will still be redundant with the existing generator feed...that won't be taken out (needed for power tools and other high draw things anyway).


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## squerly

DaveNay said:


> First is a low head generator such as the PowerSpout LH.


This is a neat little generator. I'm thinking one of these might have a future at my place. Have you seen on in actual operation?  Wondering how loud it is too.   Thanks Dave.


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## DaveNay

squerly said:


> This is a neat little generator. I'm thinking one of these might have a future at my place. Have you seen on in actual operation?  Wondering how loud it is too.   Thanks Dave.



Nope, never seen one.


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## SShepherd

wow, that's cool!


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## FrancSevin

You are doing with water ower much the same thing as i am doing with wind. 
I am using two deep charge 12 volt batteries but will place a third one in for "comfort" level.

My dump load is a 300 watt light bulb. I never thought of using a water heater. At least the energy is not wasted there.

More importantly, I worry if the bulb burns out.

I wish we had enough water flow in our spring creek to power such a system. The windmill is noisy.


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## DaveNay

FrancSevin said:


> You are doing with water ower much the same thing as i am doing with wind.
> I am using two deep charge 12 volt batteries but will place a third one in for "comfort" level.
> 
> My dump load is a 300 watt light bulb.  I never thought of using a water heater.  At least the energy is not wasted.
> 
> More importantly, I worry if the bulb burns out.
> 
> I wish we had enough water flow in our spring creek to power such a system.  The windmill is noisy.



http://www.altestore.com/store/Char...ater-Heating-Element-for-12V-or-24V-DC/p2326/


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## DaveNay

FrancSevin said:


> The windmill is noisy.



I am quite familiar with noisy windmills.


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## FrancSevin

DaveNay said:


> http://www.altestore.com/store/Char...ater-Heating-Element-for-12V-or-24V-DC/p2326/


 
Thanks


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## tommu56

Dave have you ruled out solar?

I have a small solar system at my cabin and it works for us.

tom


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## DaveNay

tommu56 said:


> Dave have you ruled out solar?
> 
> I have a small solar system at my cabin and it works for us.
> 
> tom



Well, as it turns out....I am currently investigating solar.

It looks like the micro-hydro is not a good fit for the cabin. There is no good reservoir of water and...well it's just not likely to work well, easily or cheaply.

Plus we would have to evict the beavers that live there.

The current plan is for solar with an automatic generator start for backup.


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