# Corona Virus spreading ... US official says no need to worry



## Melensdad

When the government tells me I don't need to worry, then I tend to think I really do need to be concerned.  But at least one report is quoting some US health officials as saying there is no need for US citizens to worry.

We know there are 4 cases in the USA, 1 case in Canada.  

The Canadian case is a man who arrived sick and is in the hospital in Toronto.  Canadian health officials seemed to imply that they have probably contacted all the at risk people who may have been in contact with the Chinese national on the inbound flight.

In the US, there is 1 confirmed case in Washington State, 1 in Chicago, 2 in California.  I believe all the cases are foreign nationals.

China has QUARANTINED roughly 60 MILLION PEOPLE by cutting off 16 (or more) cities.  The epicenter is Wuhan, a city of 11 Million people, but the quarantine was put into place after roughly 5 million people left the city for the Lunar New Year celebration, which is the heaviest travel time in China and typically has more than 100,000,000 people traveling nationally + internationally for the week long holiday period.

Official sources say there are under 2000 cases worldwide, and approximately 50 deaths.  The disease is being compared to the Spanish Flu, which killed millions just about 100 years ago, but this is considered far more dangerous.

UN-official sources suggest that at least 100,000 cases exist and the disease is spreading and mutating very quickly.

REUTERS SUMMARY:


> http://news.trust.org/item/20200126105121-12mxo
> 
> China scrambles to contain 'strengthening' virus
> (Adds comments from mayor of Wuhan)
> 
> * Coronavirus' transmission ability getting stronger
> 
> * Incubation 1-14 days, infectious during incubation
> 
> * China confirms 1,975 people infected, 56 dead
> 
> * U.S. to evacuate diplomatic staff, citizens from Wuhan
> 
> * China imposes temporary nationwide ban on sale of wildlife
> 
> By Gabriel D. Crossley and Cheng Leng
> 
> BEIJING/SHANGHAI, Jan 26 (Reuters) - The ability of the new coronavirus to spread is strengthening and infections could continue to rise, China's National Health Commission said on Sunday, with more than 2,000 people in China infected and 56 killed by the disease.
> 
> Health authorities around the world are racing to prevent a pandemic after a handful of cases of infection were reported outside China, including in Thailand, Australia, the United States and France.
> 
> The mayor of Wuhan, the epicentre of the outbreak, said he expected another 1,000 new patients in the city, which was stepping up construction of special hospitals.
> 
> The newly identified coronavirus has created alarm because much about it is still unknown, such as how dangerous it is and how easily it spreads between people. It can cause pneumonia, which has been deadly in some cases.
> 
> China's National Health Commission Minister Ma Xiaowei said the incubation period for the virus can range from one to 14 days, during which infection can occur, which was not the case with Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS).
> 
> SARS was a coronavirus that originated in China and killed nearly 800 people globally in 2002 and 2003.
> 
> "According to recent clinical information, the virus' ability to spread seems to be getting somewhat stronger," Ma told reporters.
> 
> The Lunar New Year holiday, traditionally celebrated by hundreds of millions of Chinese travelling around the country and abroad to see family, began on Friday but has been severely disrupted by the outbreak.
> 
> Ma said China would intensify its containment efforts, which have so far included transportation and travel curbs and the cancellation of big events.
> 
> The country may extend the week-long Lunar New Year holiday, state broadcaster CCTV reported, citing a meeting hosted by Chinese premier Li Keqiang.
> 
> The virus, believed to have originated late last year in a seafood market in Wuhan that was illegally selling wildlife, has spread to cities including Beijing and Shanghai. Hong Kong has six confirmed cases.
> 
> The World Health Organisation this week stopped short of calling the outbreak a global health emergency, but some health experts question whether China can contain the epidemic.
> 
> Chinese President Xi Jinping described the situation as "grave" on Saturday.
> 
> China confirmed 2,051 cases of infection as of 7 p.m. (1100 GMT) on Jan. 26, while the death toll from the virus remained at 56, state broadcaster CCTV reported.
> 
> Health officials in Orange County, California, reported that a third case had been registered in the United States in a traveller from Wuhan, who was in isolation and in good condition.
> 
> On Saturday, Canada declared a first "presumptive" confirmed case in a resident who had returned from Wuhan. Australia confirmed its first four cases.
> 
> No fatalities have been reported outside China.
> 
> WILDLIFE SALES BAN
> 
> On Sunday, China temporarily banned nationwide the sale of wildlife in markets, restaurants, and e-commerce platforms. Wild and often poached animals packed together in Chinese markets are blamed as incubators for viruses to evolve and jump the species barrier to humans.
> 
> Snakes, peacocks, crocodiles and other species can also be found for sale via Taobao, an e-commerce website run by Alibaba.
> 
> The New York-based Wildlife Conservation Society called on China to make the ban permanent.
> 
> The U.S. State Department said it will relocate personnel at its Wuhan consulate to the United States, while Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe said his government was working with China to arrange a charter flight for Japanese nationals to return from Wuhan.
> 
> The outbreak has prompted widening curbs on movements within China, with Wuhan, a city of 11 million, on virtual lockdown and transport links all-but severed except for emergency vehicles.
> 
> CANCELLATIONS AND MISTRUST
> 
> Health authorities in Beijing urged people not to shake hands but instead salute using a traditional cupped-hand gesture. The advice was sent in a text message that went out to mobile phone users in the city on Sunday morning.
> 
> Beijing also postponed the reopening of the city's schools and universities after the Lunar New Year holiday, state radio reported. Hong Kong had already delayed the reopening of schools to Feb. 17.
> 
> China has called for transparency in managing the crisis, after a cover-up of the spread of the SARS virus eroded public trust, but officials in Wuhan have been criticised for their handling of the current outbreak.
> 
> "People in my hometown all suspect the real infected patients number given by authorities," said Violet Li, who lives in the Wuhan district where the seafood market is located.
> 
> Illustrating the extend of disruption to life in China, overall passenger travel declined by nearly 29% on Saturday, the first day of the Lunar New Year, from a year earlier, with air passengers down nearly 42%, a transportation ministry official said.
> 
> Many cinemas across China were closed with major film premieres postponed.
> 
> Cruise operators including Royal Caribbean Cruises, and Costa Cruises said they had cancelled a combined 12 cruises that had been scheduled to embark from Chinese ports before Feb. 2.
> 
> Hong Kong Disneyland and the city's Ocean Park were closed on Sunday. Shanghai Disneyland, which expected 100,000 visitors daily through the holiday period, has already closed.
> 
> Airports around the world have stepped up screening of passengers from China, although some health officials and experts have questioned the effectiveness of these efforts.


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## Melensdad

And a Chinese nurse says that at least 90,000 people are infected



> https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/wuhan-nurse-fears-90000-infected-emotional-plea-help
> 
> Chinese Nurse Says 90,000 Already Infected In Emotional Plea For Help
> A viral video, reposted on Twitter 48 hours ago, has more than 800k views and reveals an urgent message from a Wuhan nurse, who claims more than 90,000 people in China have been infected with the fast-spreading coronavirus.
> 
> An unverified translation of the nurse, posted by @purplelovehime, has been retweeted more than 13.7k times since Saturday, states: "I am Jin Wei. I am currently inside the Wuhan outbreak region, Han Hou area. I would like to describe the condition inside the Hubei province, as well as the outbreak situation in the entire China. Currently, there are already 90,000 cases of pneumonia contraction."
> 
> _"What is the rate of contraction? If one person contracted this disease and is not properly quarantined and treated, this I individual will infect 14 people that came in contact with him. That is a significant multiplier. During the spring festival, in our culture, families like to get together, dine together. But this is unlike any other years. I hope that people can stay home, do not gather, and do not visit families. There is a spring festival every year. If everyone can stay safe, you can always get together later," the unverified translation of the nurse said. _
> 
> The translation went on to say that medical supplies from bio suits, medical masks, goggles, and gloves "are in great shortages."
> 
> London celebrates Chinese New Year in spite of coronavirus fears
> 
> The nurse, in an emotional plea, said everyone in Wuhan and surrounding cities to "not go out! Stay home!"
> 
> The translation ended with the nurse delivering some "very bad news:"
> 
> _"The coronavirus has mutated. It is now a second-generation virus. When it was still in its first generation, we were still able to treat this… However, after the last mutation, it became deadly… The rate of infection are now increasing exponentially. So please remember do not go out, do not visit people, do not gather in a group, do not have dinner party."_​


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## Melensdad

There is now a 5th case of the Corona virus in the USA, this time in Arizona.

CDC says not to worry but also says the Corona Virus is a serious threat 


https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/third-us-coronavirus-case-confirmed-orange-county



> CDC Calls CoV "Serious Emerging Public Health Threat", Confirms 5th US Case
> Summary:
> 
> 
> 5th US Coronavirus infection confirmed by CDC in 4 states (AZ, CA, IL, WA)
> 
> CDC calls the virus an  "emerging public health threat," adding that the threat is "serious."
> 
> 2082 cases, 56 Official deaths
> 
> Incubation is asymptomatic, contagious, and can be as long as 14 days
> 
> 5M may have left Wuhan for Lunar New Year
> 
> 1st case was Dec 1 NOT Dec 31 so infect pop may be much bigger
> 
> US, Russia, Thailand begin plans for evacuation
> 
> Premier Li Keqiang charged with leading government's task force
> 
> 3 Beijing hospitals using AIDS drugs to treat virus
> 
> *  *  *
> 
> Update (1510ET): CDC reports that a fifth infection has been confirmed in the US (in Arizona), calling the coronavirus an "emerging public health threat," says threat is "serious."
> 
> *Health Secretary: Risk of coronavirus to UK public remains low*
> 
> *Situation Summary*
> 
> CDC is closely monitoring an outbreak of respiratory illness caused by a novel (new) coronavirus (termed "2019-nCoV") that was first detected in Wuhan City, Hubei Province, China and which continues to expand. Chinese health officials have reported more than a thousand infections with 2019-nCoV in China, including outside of Hubei Province. Infections with 2019-nCoV also are being reported in a growing number of international locations, including the United States, where 5 cases in travelers from Wuhan have been confirmed in four states (AZ, CA, IL, WA) as of January 26, 2020.
> 
> *Source and Spread of the Virus*
> 
> Chinese health authorities were the first to post the full genome of the 2019-nCoV in GenBank  El , the NIH genetic sequence database, and in the Global Initiative on Sharing All Influenza Data (GISAID Z ) portal, an action which has facilitated detection of this virus. On January 24, 2020, CDC posted in GenBank the full genome of the 2019-nCoV virus detected in the first U.S. patient from Washington state. The virus Chinese health authorities were the first to post the full genome of the 2019-nCoV in GenBank  El , the NIH genetic sequence database, and in the Global Initiative on Sharing All Influenza Data (GISAID Cl ) portal, an action which has facilitated detection of this virus. On January 24, 2020, CDC posted in GenBank the full genome of the 2019-nCoV virus detected in the first U.S. patient from Washington state. The virus genetic sequence from the patient in Washington is nearly identical to the sequences posted from China. The available sequences suggest a likely single, recent emergence from a virus related to bat coronaviruses and the SARS coronavirus. The available sequence information does not provide any information about severity of associated illness or transmissibility of the virus.
> 
> Early on, many of the patients in the outbreak in Wuhan, China reportedly had some link to a large seafood and animal market, suggesting animal-to-person spread. However, a growing number of patients reportedly have not had exposure to animal markets, and there is evidence that person-to-person spread is occurring. At this time, it's unclear how easily or sustainably this virus is spreading between people. Learn what is known about the spread of newly emerged coronaviruses.
> 
> *Illness Severity*
> 
> Both MERS and SARS have been known to cause severe illness in people. The complete clinical picture with regard to 2019-nCoV is still not fully clear. Reported illnesses have ranged from infected people with little to no symptoms to people being severely ill and dying. Learn more about the symptoms associated with 2019- nCoV.
> 
> There are ongoing investigations to learn more. This is a rapidly evolving situation and information will be updated as it becomes available.
> 
> *Risk Assessment*
> 
> Outbreaks of novel virus infections among people are always of public health concern. The risk from these outbreaks depends on characteristics of the virus, including whether and how well it spreads between people, the severity of resulting illness, and the medical or other measures available to control the impact of the virus (for example, vaccine or treatment medications).
> 
> Investigations are ongoing to learn more, but person-to-person spread of 2019-nCoV is occurring. Chinese officials report that sustained person-to-person spread in the community is occurring in China. Person-to-person spread in the United States has not yet been detected, but it's likely to occur to some extent. It's important to note that person-to-person spread can happen on a continuum. Some viruses are highly contagious (like measles), while other viruses are less so. It's important to know this in order to better assess the risk posed by this virus. *While CDC considers this is a very serious public health threat, based on current information, the immediate health risk from 2019-nCoV to the general American public is considered low at this time. Nevertheless, CDC is taking proactive preparedness precautions.*


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## NorthernRedneck

Of course the guberment would say there's no reason to worry. That's all the more reason to worry. Look at any politicians track record when they say "trust me".


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## Melensdad

Honestly I have no clue what the risk is to the average person living in North America but based on China's history I don't trust them.  

I'm betting that this is probably far more widespread than anyone knows.  
I'm betting that it's been going on for a couple weeks, maybe a month longer than reported.
I'm betting that China has been lying about their containment.

Those are just my bets.  Now I have no clue if this is actually a serious disease or not.  It could be that most of the people who died were old and already sick with other diseases, it could be that this is not much worse or different than most types of "flu" and its really only very serious to people with immune suppressed conditions who have multiple issues.  Then again, I don't know.  Just seeing a lot of differing news and much of it seems to be a bit too late and a little too slim on facts.


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## Bamby

It reads to have the potential to thrive in the sweat shop work environments commonly found in the third world, world wide. All those workers working closely in production line environments will have plenty of opportunity to share their ailments with their coworkers before it's recognized they themselves are coming down with the Virus. IMPO this has the real potential to get ugly....


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## marchplumber

Love my Country, definitely do NOT trust my guberment.  Chinese guberment? LMBO!!  NO WAY! LMBO


Numbers will tell in the end..................=_(


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## tiredretired

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

What he said.


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## Melensdad

This article seems to be written to keep the public from panicking but still show how serious this can become.  It seems to indicate it may just be a simple flu but patients who are "at risk" due to other conditions (age, etc) may have something to worry about.  

Seems like travel in confined aluminum tubes full of other passengers (_airplanes and trains_) could easily spread this disease if an infected person starts coughing or sneezing.  

Public venues like concerts and movie theaters.  Ditto.

Schools, again.  Ditto.

Colleges and universities are probably high risk places because students tend to travel and be social so classrooms, lunch halls, etc would be great places to get sick.

Enjoy the reading material:  https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...jFwUElrOUVWOW5oK3NRbkpxZnVzNGNzeUZTWFVOQWYzMk




> Health authorities’ concern about the new coronavirus in China, with cases spreading in Asia and as far as the United States, deepened Wednesday with news that the Chinese government plans to shut down transportation from Wuhan, a city of 11 million people that is considered ground zero of the pneumonia-like virus.
> 
> After the outbreak began in December, the Chinese government for weeks portrayed it as a problem largely restricted to Wuhan, in the Hubei province. Infections have since been found in the Chinese territories of Hong Kong and Macao, and in South Korea, Japan, Taiwan — as well as in this country in Washington state. Of particular concern: The news Monday that Chinese authorities had determined that the virus can be spread by human-to-human contact, and that 14 health-care workers had been infected by a single carrier. As of Wednesday, 17 people have died and more than 470 have fallen ill with the virus, The Post reported.
> 
> China’s seeming reluctance to share information in the early stages of the outbreak slowed the international recognition of the threat. A turning point came when video footage surfaced earlier this month showing Chinese health authorities — clad in full-body protective suits — examining passengers on an airplane. The earlier secrecy raises doubts that China has fully learned key public health lessons since the SARS virus killed nearly 800 people in 2003 and then MERS claimed some 850 lives a decade later.
> 
> This time, the world is better prepared to deal with the threat. Though the warning signs are unsettling, there is reason to believe that the virus may mostly cause mild illness and can be contained without major impacts. But how it unfolds will turn on some critical questions and on actions that still need to be taken.
> 
> As with the MERS and SARS viruses, the Wuhan pneumonia is caused by a novel coronavirus that jumped from animals to people. Poor animal husbandry in open food markets make China an epicenter for these risks. Wuhan’s bazaar sells freshly slaughtered animals — including chickens, pheasants, marmots, snakes, deer and rabbits. These “wet markets” create perfect conditions for viral species to spread from their animal hosts to humans.
> 
> Coronavirus is a species implicated in bad colds and, on rare occasion, viral pneumonia. Seven strains are already known to circulate among humans. The bug behind the Wuhan outbreak is new, which makes its emergence a cause for significant concern. Humans may not have much immunity to its main components.
> 
> By some measures, Chinese health authorities have put us ahead in addressing the risks. Unlike SARS, which took about five months to firmly identify after it first began to spread, the Wuhan virus has been quickly sequenced and large-scale containment efforts were implemented early. China has already made diagnostic tests available to its health-care system.
> 
> Yet, on other measures, more-seamless information-sharing by Chinese authorities is needed. They published the sequence of the viruses they had isolated, but China doesn’t appear to have shared viral samples with key international health authorities who could have used the pathogen to help validate diagnostic screening tests and evaluate potential antidotes.
> 
> It is now up to other countries to work together on steps to avert wider outbreaks or pandemic spread.
> 
> First, we need to better understand the nature of this bug, and its severity. The illness may be more widespread than we realize in the fog of viral war. Because its incubation period is likely to be as much as a week, travelers can be harboring the infection and show no symptoms. A key to containing the virus’s wider spread will be developing effective point-of-care diagnostics to implement more widespread screening of patients.
> 
> We learned that lesson with the mosquito-borne Zika virus when it was first reported in the United States in 2015. Initially, most blood samples had to be shipped to a central lab operated by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. That slowed diagnosis and limited the ability of doctors to intervene more quickly when patients were infected. Health-care providers urgently need easy access to effective diagnostic tests for the Wuhan virus.
> 
> There’s much we don’t know yet, but answers should emerge that will help us gauge the risks. It’s troubling that the virus seems to have jumped quickly from animal to human transmission. But, for most people, it might cause only a mild illness. For the young, old or infirm, an infection could be more serious.
> 
> Yet even if it the Wuhan virus doesn’t mutate into a more potent illness, as it could, it’s a disturbing reminder that we remain too vulnerable to these zoonotic threats, as illnesses that spread from animals to humans are known. One day, a virus will occupy the terrifying spot where lethality and dissemination meet. It will be nimble enough to propagate widely and virulent enough to cause catastrophic harm. The Wuhan episode shows that while we’ve learned some lessons from SARS and MERS, we remain tragically vulnerable.


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## Melensdad

Uh oh, looks like it is getting worse?  Or the reporting is getting more accurate?


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## Bannedjoe

I don't know from this shit, but I bet the Mexican beer company hates the name of this virus.


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## pirate_girl

Bannedjoe said:


> I don't know from this shit, but I bet the Mexican beer company hates the name of this virus.



Not sure if I should have laughed at that.
Lol


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## pirate_girl

The CDC I believe are taking this very seriously as well as other world health organizations.
It's not the first time we've been highly concerned over the spread of a virus.
Let's hope like hell that this will not spread out of control.


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## mla2ofus

When a gov't official says "don't worry", to me that's the same as saying "I'm from the gov't and I'm here to help"!! That's when you run, don't walk away from him/her!!
Mike


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## Melensdad

Meanwhile from website ZEROHEDGE where they tend to have serious analysis. 




> Meanwhile, more health researchers in China are warning that the state is woefully undercounting the number of cases. A researcher at HKU med school announced that his new estimate for active cases in China is closer to 25,000.
> 
> HKU Med School head Gabriel Leung is meeting press with a mask on. He is going to announce new estimation of #nCoV2019 . pic.twitter.com/tZk2qlZegH
> 
> — Xinqi Su 蘇昕琪 (@XinqiSu) January 27, 2020
> HKU Med School head Gabriel Leung apologised again for his inappropriate comment made on Friday that he and officials couldn’t speak with mask on . pic.twitter.com/qRDsr3O2h3
> 
> — Xinqi Su 蘇昕琪 (@XinqiSu) January 27, 2020
> Key takeaway so far
> 1, Wuhan is estimated to have over 25,000 confirmed cases and over 43,000 infections
> 2, Wuhan lockdown doesn’t really help to stop spreading in other major cities in China
> 3, Chongqing can be the most affected,followed by Beijing Shanghai Guangzhou Shenzhen
> 
> — Xinqi Su 蘇昕琪 (@XinqiSu) January 27, 2020
> 4, April and May can see major outbreaks in the aforementioned four major cities. It may come one to two weeks earlier in Chongqing.
> 5, HK and Macau should not only look at directly traffic links with Wuhan (!)
> 
> — Xinqi Su 蘇昕琪 (@XinqiSu) January 27, 2020
> “the Hong Kong government should...not really sort of go and answer the question should we do more about more Chinese major metropolises ... but rather how can we sustain Hong Kong food supply, Hong Kong's ability and capacity to deal with a major epidemic.“ - Prof Gabriel Leung.
> 
> — Xinqi Su 蘇昕琪 (@XinqiSu) January 27, 2020
> “The lockdown measure adopted by various cities in mainland China is absolutely correct” - Prof Gabriel Leung
> 
> — Xinqi Su 蘇昕琪 (@XinqiSu) January 27, 2020


​


The UK seems to be totally unprepared for it.  We've known the their NHS was already stressed, but they seem to now actually admit that they are stressed to their limits with just the regular strains of flu.  Long waiting lines have persisted in the NHS for years and this will only make things worse if people don't get quick treatment.  There are known to be tens of thousands of Chinese tourists in Europe, probably a few thousand from Wuhan province.  There is no way the Chinese government can get a handle on tourists in other nations, given they are behind the curve in their own nation.

*From THE GUARDIAN out of England:* https://www.theguardian.com/science...rus-could-infect-100000-globally-experts-warn



> About 100,000 people could be infected with the new coronavirus around the world, experts have warned, as the UK government faced calls to reassure people that the NHS is ready to deal with any British cases within days.
> 
> Prof Neil Ferguson, a public health expert at Imperial College, said* his “best guess” was that there were 100,000 affected by the virus* even though there are only 2,000 confirmed cases so far, mostly in the city of Wuhan in China where the virus first appeared.
> 
> “Sooner or later we will get a case,” he said._ “There are very large numbers of Chinese tourists across Europe right now. Unless the Chinese manage to control this, and I’m sceptical about whether that is possible, we will get cases here.”
> _
> Although no one has yet tested positive for coronavirus in the UK, Labour called on the government to reassure the public that the NHS could cope with an outbreak when it is already struggling with the winter flu season.
> 
> Jonathan Ashworth, the shadow health secretary, said:* “The NHS is currently under immense strain this winter with staff already working flat out and hospitals overcrowded. We need urgent reassurance from ministers they have a plan to ensure we have capacity in place to deal with coronavirus should we need to.”*


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## EastTexFrank

Well, I'm not sure whether I need to start locking down the homestead or not.  Just kidding but I will be watching this as it develops.

Just to add a little perspective to it all, up to 55,000 people die of the flu or flu-like diseases in the US every year.  We've a ways to go yet but when any government official tells me not to worry … I worry.


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## waybomb

For the tinfoil folks - I've seen a couple of mentions of Wuhan being home to a bio-lab, and it possibly had an accident and released this alleged virus....


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## marchplumber

waybomb said:


> For the tinfoil folks - I've seen a couple of mentions of Wuhan being home to a bio-lab, and it possibly had an accident and released this alleged virus....



Hilarious.....that will calm em down.......:th_lmao:


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## Melensdad

So a very close friend of mine, international traveller, and friend to many very wealthy power brokers around the world was told by a Chinese insider YESTERDAY that the death toll INSIDE China is over 80,000 people.

I was told the central government's layers of bureaucracy delayed response and covered up much of the problem.  This will likely be a major world wide pandemic because of the communist's lack of early action.  It is unknown if normal healthy people will find this any more problematic than a typical seasonal flu.  Those who have died seem to be primarily the very young, the old, and those with other serious illnesses that cannot fight off this flu.

More from ZeroHedge, which seems to be one of the more open sources:

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopoliti...kong-sends-6000-medics-hubei-death-toll-soars

HERE IS AN EDITED VERSION OF THE STORY.  For the FULL story and VIDEO go to the link above:


> *China Curbs Travel To Hong Kong As Projections Suggest 300,000 Already Infected By "Devil Virus"*
> Update (0700ET): Minutes ago, CNBC reported that the White House has held multiple meetings about the coronavirus led by Deputy National Security Advisor Matt Pottinger.
> 
> 
> Kayla Tausche
> ✔
> @kaylatausche
> NEW: The White House has been convening multiple meetings on #coronavirus in recent days, convened by deputy national security adviser Matt Pottinger.
> 
> Readout from an admin official: Consensus that the issue is worsening but the extent to which is unclear.
> 
> Lam on Virus, Travel Restrictions: We Should Start With the Source
> 
> Are we about to learn about a new rash of infections inside the US? Considering that more than 100 people were under observation as recently as yesterday, we wouldn't be surprised.
> 
> * * *
> 
> On Tuesday morning, China's top health officials shared some grim statistics essentially confirming that the novel coronavirus believed to have emerged from a shady food market in Wuhan is on track to confirm some of the more dire projections shared by epidemiologists.
> 
> As we reported late yesterday, the death toll in China has soared past 100 while the number of confirmed cases doubled overnight. Health officials around the world have confirmed more than 4,500 cases, more than triple the number from Friday. All but a few of the deaths recorded so far have been in Wuhan or the surrounding Hubei province, per the SCMP.
> 
> 
> 
> Panic has swept across the region as border closures appear to be the overarching theme of Tuesday's sessions. Even North Korea, which relies on China for 90% of its foreign trade, has closed the border with its patron. More than 50 million remain on lockdown in Hubei, and transit restrictions have been imposed by cities and regions around the country. An 'extension' of the Lunar New Year holiday is threatening GDP growth, as economists try to size up the knock-on potential impact on the global economy. The virus has now spread across China and another 17 countries/autonomous territories globally, according to BBG.
> 
> 
> 
> But the most important announcement made overnight - at least as far as global markets are concerned - was Hong Kong Chief Executive Carrie Lam's decision to suspend high-speed rail and ferry service, while halving the number of flights between HK and the mainland. This news helped send US stock futures higher in early trade, after health experts yesterday urged Lam to use 'draconian' measures to curb the spread, for fear of a repeat of the SARS epidemic, which killed some 300 people, according to the BBC.
> 
> "The flow of people between the two places needs to be drastically reduced" amid the outbreak, Ms Lam told the South China Morning Post.
> 
> China, meanwhile, said it would stop individuals from traveling to Hong Kong to try and curb the virus.​


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## pirate_girl

There is a young woman on that other forum who has been updating the situation.
She lives in Wuhan City.
The last post she made was how empty the grocery store shelves are.


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## Melensdad

PG all that is dated 6 days ago.  

Infection numbers seem increase 50% each day.  Deaths rise almost as fast.  And those are just the officially reported numbers.  Unofficial reports are far more dire.  

Any current info from her?


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## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Pretty sure the one guaranteed thing coming out of China is that the official news is whitewashed and inaccurate.

Good article:  https://www.sciencemag.org/news/202...-not-be-source-novel-virus-spreading-globally


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## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

More theories to keep you up at night:  https://t.co/z8YFaWNHP8


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## pirate_girl

Melensdad said:


> PG all that is dated 6 days ago.
> 
> Infection numbers seem increase 50% each day.  Deaths rise almost as fast.  And those are just the officially reported numbers.  Unofficial reports are far more dire.
> 
> Any current info from her?



Nope, but the BBC and channelnewsasia seem to be the best sources for keeping up with this.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51279726

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/international


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## pirate_girl

This goes on to say that unless you've recently travelled to China or have been in close contact with anyone from there, then you're chances of contracting the virus are near zero.


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## AAUTOFAB1

we are due for population correction, history is full of this kind of thing. hope they figure this thing out.


----------



## tiredretired

The coming Chi-Com pandemic is going to wipe out millions of these Democrat wackadildos infesting our large cities.  They will be gone in short order.  They will not be missed.  Those of us deplorables who choose to live in the sticks, never smart enough to get a Yale degree, but more than smart enough to prepare for what is coming. 

Those of us who survive will be the ones in charge.  Good riddance to bad rubbish.  I, for one, will never mourn their loss.


----------



## Melensdad

We now have a suspected case in Porter County, Indiana.  Porter County is the next county east of where I live.  At this point the case is a SUSPECTED but UNCONFIRMED case.  The individual is in the hospital and in isolation.   Chicago, where there is at least 1 case, is the next county northwest of where I live.   Hmmm....






pirate_girl said:


> Nope, but the *BBC and channelnewsasia seem to be the best sources* for keeping up with this.
> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51279726
> 
> https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/international


Channel News Asia seems to trail ZeroHedge in reporting speed, with the CNA news running between 1/2 to 1 full day behind the ZeroHedge reporting.

But, the CNA reports are more complete in details than the summary reports that ZeroHedge is providing.


BBC is running 36 hours behind CNA in its reporting!  My family in England doesn't even rely on BBC for real news, they are very much like CNN here in the US.  

BBC is reporting 4800 sick.
CNA is reporting under 6000 sick.

ZeroHedge (_and Chicago's very own *WGN TV News* channel_) are both reporting 132 dead and over 6000 sick.


----------



## pirate_girl

More than 56 million people in almost 20 Chinese cities, including Wuhan, have been prevented from travelling in an attempt to curb the spread of the virus during the Lunar New Year or spring festival, traditionally China's busiest travel season.

The director general of the World Health Organization (WHO), Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, met China's President Xi Jinping on Tuesday.

The agency has acknowledged the respiratory illness is an emergency in China but said last week it was too early to declare the outbreak a public health emergency of international concern. It has described the global risk from the virus as high. 

Here are the latest updates:

Wednesday, January 29
Kazakhstan to suspend trains, flights to China
The Central Asian republic of Kazakhstan will suspend railway and air traffic with neighbouring China as of February 1 and 3, respectively, because of fears of the newly discovered coronavirus, state media reported.

Kazakhstan's government has also decided to "suspend the issuance of visas for Chinese citizens as of February 3 amid the coronavirus outbreak in the Chinese city of Wuhan," state news agency Kazinform reported.

No incident of the new coronavirus has so far been reported in the central Asian nation.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020...les-coronavirus-outbreak-200129001353421.html


----------



## Melensdad

pirate_girl said:


> More than 56 million people in almost 20 Chinese cities, including Wuhan, *have been prevented from travelling *in an attempt to curb the spread of the virus...
> 
> https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020...les-coronavirus-outbreak-200129001353421.html



Great except that there are private flights transporting people out of Wuhan and other cities with outbreaks.

Flight records show daily flights out of China into Japan, Canada and American cities.

The flights are typically private flights, so basically the wealthy can leave on chartered flights and on their own jets.  Plus there are still some commercial flights leaving.  

Some of the so-called travel bans are "announced" but don't actually go into effect for days as the announcements were made in advance.  The train travel ban to Hong Kong goes into effect on Friday, they were announced on Monday.  So anyone who is on the mainland can still get to HK and then fly out of HK to North America on commercial airliners.


----------



## Melensdad

China doesn't want help from outsiders




> https://www.foxnews.com/health/us-health-officials-on-coronavirus-outbreak
> *China spurned CDC offer to send team to help contain coronavirus: US Health Secretary*
> Madeline Farber23 hours ago
> 
> ...
> 
> During a Tuesday news conference which included U.S. Health Secretary Alex Azar, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) Director Robert Redfield, National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Disease (NCIRD) Director Nancy Messonnier, and National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) Director Anthony Fauci, officials said the outbreak is a "potentially very serious public health threat" in the U.S., but the current risk to Americans remains low. To date, there are five confirmed cases of the novel virus in the U.S.
> 
> Azar said *the U.S. has made repeated offers to send a team of CDC officials to China to help with the outbreak response. The offer was first made on Jan. 6, he said, adding U.S. officials have continued to urge more transparency from the country as the disease spreads.*


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Better get your water jugs ready ... https://www.thesun.co.uk/travel/10844438/coronavirus-desperate-passengers-plastic-bottles-helmets/


----------



## marchplumber

PBinWA said:


> Better get your water jugs ready ... https://www.thesun.co.uk/travel/10844438/coronavirus-desperate-passengers-plastic-bottles-helmets/




Hole on top?  Guess it prevents front sneezes/coughs from orifice contamination......might work...LMBO


----------



## pirate_girl

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2020/01/30/2003730032

http://en.people.cn/mobile/new/content.html?cI=1002&nI=9652299&aT=m

http://romanian.cri.cn/341/2020/01/29/1s207689.htm

If I still had a shortwave radio, I'd be listening to Radio China.


----------



## pirate_girl

https://sputniknews.com/world/20200...anghai-amid-coronavirus-outbreak---statement/


----------



## Melensdad

British Airways also suspended commercial flights to China.


----------



## Jim_S RIP

. . . .


----------



## pirate_girl

Google is temporarily shutting down all China offices due to coronavirus outbreak
Including offices in mainland China, Hong Kong, and Taiwan.


----------



## Melensdad

What is interesting is that this Quarantine started last week.

But only today we are seeing the flights cancelled.  And reports are that some airlines are not cancelling flights into/out of these regions in China.  And we know that some trains are running passengers into/out of the quarantine areas currently.  And some airlines have announced FUTURE cancellations but are still flying into these areas.

*So is it a QUARANTINE at all?*


As of 9:50am ET today:  Germany's Lufthansa and American Airlines are the latest airlines to suspend flights to China. *American is cancelling flights from LAX to Shanghai and Beijing beginning Feb. 9 through late March.* Other airlines that have cancelled some or all flights to China since earlier this morning include Air Canada, Lion Air, Seoul Air and a handful of others around the world.

Asiana Airlines Jeju Air Jin Air Co Finnair Oyj Lion Air Jetstar Airways’ Singapore Ops and Air Macau have also cancelled flights.

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopoliti...s-all-flights-china-virus-spreads-middle-east


----------



## Melensdad

So in addition to questioning if there is actually any actual quarantine we can now ask *how many lies are coming out of the Chi-Coms* 

Clearly the Chinese commies have caused this problem to explode by having an inefficient reporting system due to their communist layers.  No doubt the Chi-Coms will also claim glory when this is finally resolved by claiming their central planning and massive crackdown on travel (_which we also know is a lie_) will have contained the contagion.

This seems to be closer to the information that I've been getting from some of my friends in other parts of the world.



> *Reporters Claim They Have Proof China Lying About Virus Death Toll*
> 
> Update (1650ET): Several epidemiologists have suggested that many of the deaths caused by the coronavirus that surfaced in Wuhan last month have probably 'slipped through the cracks' - either having been misdiagnosed or deliberately attributed to something else. Many suspect that Beijing is concealing the true extent of the outbreak. And now, one reporter claims that a Chinese media organization has found proof.
> 
> The East Asia Correspondent for DW cited reports in a tweet claiming that health officials have been secretly moving some bodies directly from the hospital to the crematorium.
> 
> 
> Also, one thing that #China is hiding is the number of death caused by the virus. Credible Chinese media outlet @initiumnews interviewed people working at local cremation centers, confirming that many dead bodies were sent directly from the hospitals to the cremation centers...
> 
> 
> Also, one thing that #China is hiding is the number of death caused by the virus. Credible Chinese media outlet @initiumnews interviewed people working at local cremation centers, confirming that many dead bodies were sent directly from the hospitals to the cremation centers...
> 
> 
> *Meanwhile, research published in the Lancet, a medical journal, claimed the true mortality rate is closer to 11% (the official rate is 2%-3%).*
> 
> If they're lying about the death toll, then it's likely they also know the true number of infections is much higher than the 'official' number. .


LINK =>https://www.zerohedge.com/geopoliti...s-all-flights-china-virus-spreads-middle-east

The LANCET medical journal, which is showing 11% mortality, and various rates for serious complications. LINK =>  https://www.thelancet.com/pb-assets/Lancet/pdfs/S0140673620302117.pdf


----------



## pirate_girl

This whole thing is frightening for the people over there.
I pray it doesn't spread to other nearby countries or enter our country via the larger cities.
Right now, I truly believe it's controlled and will continue to be.
That might be too much positive thinking, but I think it's reaching the level of mass panic when it doesn't necessarily need to be.


----------



## Melensdad

pirate_girl said:


> This whole thing is frightening for the people over there.
> I pray it doesn't spread to other nearby countries or enter our country via the larger cities.
> *Right now, I truly believe it's controlled and will continue to be.*
> That might be too much positive thinking, but I think it's reaching the level of mass panic when it doesn't necessarily need to be.



Thailand has already admitted they can’t contain it.  

I think it’s already out of control.  

I pray that it is just not any more fatal than a normal seasonal flu strain.  And unfortunately the seasonal flu actually kills a lot more people than most realize.  China’s bureaucracy is the real killer/culprit.

We already seem to have human to human transmission of the disease.  

There is no way this hasn’t been going on for a month longer than China claims.  

Link — https://apnews.com/a980aeb44b3840341c674a6e67c19da6



> Meanwhile, the World Health Organization’s emergencies chief said the few cases of human-to-human spread of the virus outside China — in Japan, Germany, Canada and Vietnam — were of “great concern” and were part of the reason the U.N. health agency’s director-general was reconvening a committee of experts on Thursday to assess whether the outbreak should be declared a global emergency.


----------



## Melensdad

And the news this morning doesn't look any better.

Russia has now CLOSED its border with China.  Both Russia and the Czech Republic were added to the list of nations that have halted granting Visas to Chinese citizens.  An Italian cruise ship is docked and LOCKED DOWN in France with 2 sick and suspected of having the Kung Flu virus.  Former leaders of the World Health Organization have criticized WHO for not calling this a global pandemic emergency a week ago.  

Regarding the so-called quarantine, more proof that does not exist.  The Philippines and Indonesia remain totally open to Chinese tourists/travel, and both of those nations also allow open travel to multiple destinations in North America, Australia, the Middle East, India and South America.  Again, there is no real containment.  There is no REAL quarantine in place.  

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopoliti...ip-due-virus-scare-russia-closes-border-china

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/soc...ho-declare-coronavirus-outbreak-international



> *“I believe that they had Sars-based responses, which is not adequate for this virus,” *he said. *“Probably when they realised the difference, there were already too many cases that originated from mild or asymptomatic cases.”*​
> A new study by Chinese scientists has suggested the period between exposure to the coronavirus and symptoms could be as long as 5.2 days, and that it varied among patients.
> 
> The team studied the first 425 people infected with the new coronavirus, and their findings supported a 14-day observation period for people who might have been exposed to it, according to the research published in the New England Journal of Medicine on Wednesday.
> 
> China’s National Health Commission on Sunday said the virus was contagious even in its incubation period, which lasted up to 14 days.
> 
> Amesh Adalja, a senior scholar at the Johns Hopkins Centre for Health Security, said other countries needed to “scale up” their disease prevention efforts, and a WHO declaration could help to tackle the epidemic.
> *
> “At this point, a de facto emergency exists, however the declaration may mobilise more resources to combat the outbreak,”​​​*he said.​


​
and



> -- *Following several unconfirmed scares, India has confirmed its first case of the novel coronavirus.* That means all three of the world's most populous countries have now confirmed at least one case of the virus.
> 
> And that list could soon expand. *Brazil, the world's fifth most-populous country, reported three suspected cases yesterday. *Malaysia has confirmed at least 8 cases. Reports that a Thai woman died of the virus on Kolkata were never confirmed.
> 
> 
> -- Earlier, *the White House said it had launched a task force* that will meet daily to oversee the response to the coronavirus outreak that has resulted in at least five confirmed cases in the US, NBC reports. However, an expert who appeared on CNBC Thursday morning pointed out that the administration is a little behind the 8-ball.
> 
> If the administration wasn't so bogged down with impeachment, maybe Trump would have more time to focus on the virus response?
> 
> 
> -- Update (0710ET): *Airline employees are putting their feet down and demanding that their bosses halt flights to China*, as more than a dozen airlines around the world have already done.
> 
> Air France cabin crew unions have demanded Air France stop flying to China, Reuters reports.
> 
> "Air France is monitoring the rapidly evolving situation in real time. The health and safety of its crew remain the absolute priority," said Air France-KLM.
> 
> We've heard whispers of employee discontent before. But expect to see more to forcefully object.
> 
> * * *
> 
> -- *National health officials in Beijing announced a slew of new cases and virus-related deaths early Thursday morning (nearly 8,000 have been sickened, another 12,000 cases are suspected*, and roughly 170 have died), but since then, things have been quiet.
> 
> If the recent past is any guide, this would suggest another dump of new cases and deaths is in the offing.
> 
> Three new cases were confirmed in Vietnam overnight. But in terms of news flow, most of the drama during the early hours of Thursday centered around Italy and Russia.
> 
> -- With the WHO set to reconvene its emergency committee in Geneva on Thursday for the third time in a week, experts are calling on the supra-national organization to label the outbreak a* "public health emergency of international concern," or PHEIC - the official designation of a global pandemic.*
> 
> The 16 independent experts on the WHO’s emergency committee will advise Director-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus on the decision and give recommendations for managing the outbreak. Earlier this week, Tedros met Chinese President Xi Jinping in Beijing earlier in the week to discuss the situation. Twice last week, the WHO decided to hold off on declaring a public health emergency, saying it was "too soon," according to the SCMP.
> 
> Hitoshi Oshitani, a former regional adviser on communicable disease surveillance and response at the WHO’s Western Pacific office, told the SCMP that there is an "imminent risk" of a dangerous global outbreak.
> 
> *"I think the WHO should have declared a public health emergency of international concern earlier. They are supposed to declare PHEIC based on a risk of international spread. There was already significant risk of international spread one week ago," Oshitani said.*​
> *Oshitani added that controlling this new coronavirus is proving more difficult than suppressing the 2003 SARS outbreak, largely because the virus can spread via individuals who are infected, but exhibit few - or no - symptoms.*
> 
> _*"For Sars, patients were infectious only when they developed very severe illness. But for this virus, patients are likely to be infectious even during the incubation period. If so, rapid isolation is not enough to contain the virus," he said.*_​
> SARS infected 8,000 people and killed 813 worldwide. The coronavirus outbreak has already surpassed SARS in terms of the number of cases in China. Globally, the virus has already effectively tied SARS for the number of confirmed cases, though if skeptical epidemiologists are correct, the true number of cases has already far surpassed the total for SARs.
> 
> A number of evacuation missions have been completed, as the US and Japan have flown citizens trapped in Wuhan to safety. However,* Japanese officials discovered that several citizens on the flight were infected with the virus, leading to a mass quarantine.* UK officials said that citizens evacuated from Wuhan must agree to spend two weeks in quarantine after returning to the UK.
> 
> 
> 
> -- About *6,000 passengers and crew aboard the cruise ship "Costa Smeralda," owned by the Carnival Corporation, have been confined to the vessel* on Thursday amid new fears that two Chinese passengers are suspected of having coronavirus, reported Reuters.
> 
> Two Chinese tourists, traveling from Hong Hong and, originally, from Macau, have been placed in "isolation in separate rooms of the ship's sanitary space," said local media outlet, ANSA. ...
> 
> "The cabin of the Hong Kong couple on the ship has been isolated and they are closed there with the doctors. They told us that it is the woman who has a very high fever, while her husband is visiting him as a precaution. We arrived in the morning, returning from Palma de Mallorca. Of course, we are a bit worried. From the ship, apart from the doctors, no one goes down and no one goes up. Someone, who has only the flu, remained in the cabin. It is a vacation that risks ending like a nightmare, we hope to go down soon," a passenger of the ship told ANSA...
> 
> Reuters notes that all passengers have been confined to the ship as tests are underway to determine if the two Chinese tourists have coronavirus...
> 
> Now the cruise company has a difficult decision to make: those infected with coronavirus may not exhibit symptoms of the virus during the 7-10 day incubation period but can infect others at high rates. This means if the Chinese tourist test positive, they might have infected the entire ship. That many cases will likely overwhelm Italy's ability to rapidly respond.
> 
> 
> 
> -- *Russia's newly appointed Prime Minister Mikhail Mishustin on Thursday signed an order to close the country's border with the Far East* to prevent the spread of coronavirus. Russia joins North Korea, becoming the second country to completely shutter its border with the world's second-largest economy. Although Russia hasn't provided details about the plan, Russia also border China, Japan and North Korea along the Far East.
> 
> Mishustin has also asked Deputy Prime Minister Tatyana Golikova to inform the population on a daily basis about the current situation and preventive measures, according to the Russian press.
> 
> *Both Russia and the Czech Republic have decided to suspend the granting of visas to Chinese.*
> 
> 
> 
> -- *Meanwhile, villages and apartment complexes across China are "taking the fight against a deadly viral epidemic into their own hands,"* according to AFP.
> 
> Some areas are starting to look like something out of a sectarian conflict, complete with check points and makeshift barricades. Groups of locals have constructed makeshift barricades across access roads to keep potentially-infected strangers out.
> 
> In one residential compound in Beijing, *"a motley stack of shared bicycles have been haphazardly woven together and wired to a wooden ladder, blocking a side gate and forcing visitors to register with guards at the main entrance."
> *
> With more than 50 million people still on lockdown, resentment against the ruling party has intensified, and more Chinese are speaking out on social media, according to the NYT: *"We gave up our rights in exchange for protection," the user wrote. "But what kind of protection is it? Where will our long-lasting political apathy lead us?" *That post was shared more than 7,000 times.


----------



## Melensdad

The World Health Organization has declared a global health emergency. 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/30/who-declares-china-coronavirus-a-global-health-emergency.html



> WHO declares China coronavirus that’s killed 171 a global health emergency
> 
> Berkeley Lovelace Jr.
> Published Thu, Jan 30 20202:43 PM ESTUpdated 7 min ago
> 
> 
> The World Health Organization said the fast-spreading coronavirus that’s infected more than 8,200 across the world is a global health emergency — a rare designation that helps the international agency mobilize financial and political support to contain the outbreak.
> 
> The announcement comes just hours after the U.S. confirmed its first human-to-human transmission of the virus, which has killed at least 171 people in China and has now spread to at least 18 other countries.
> 
> Since emerging less than a month ago in Wuhan, China, the coronavirus has infected more people than the 2003 SARS epidemic, which sickened roughly 8,100 people across the globe over nine months. As of Thursday, there are at least eight cases in four countries, outside of China, of human-to-human transmission of the new coronavirus.


----------



## AAUTOFAB1

I was just thinking... if you wanted to remove all the non native  people from your country and didn't want it to seem like you were..... creating a deadly virus would do it, I've  been reading about China and their recent purge of expats living there...  seems a bit of a reach but then again... its China.


----------



## pirate_girl

Hmm?





https://www.truthorfiction.com/lysol-coronavirus-conspiracy/


----------



## pirate_girl




----------



## pixie

There are several "Corona Viruses". It's a description of the viruses shape. SARS and MERS are 2 examples but there are also others of this type that just cause ordinary colds etc.

That's why the one that is in the news Now is called a 'Novel' Corona virus.


----------



## Melensdad

pixie said:


> There are several "Corona Viruses". It's a description of the viruses shape. SARS and MERS are 2 examples but there are also others of this type that just cause ordinary colds etc.
> 
> That's why the one that is in the news *Now is called a 'Novel' Corona virus*.



I noticed that the news changed from just the Corona Virus to the Novel Corona Virus over the last 36-48 hours.  Thanks for the explanation.





Here in the USA surgical masks are in short supply as people stock up on masks.  My brother, who is in the hospital supply business, says he cannot get enough masks for the local hospital chain that he works with because the supply line is facing shortages.  

A quick check of HomeDepot.com and Amazon show their N95 dusk masks as either out of stock or dramatically over prices due to price gouging.  N95 level masks were recommended by the CDC as appropriate.  N95 masks are also used by construction workers who sand drywall, work with insulation, etc.



And now for the morning update.  Turning to ZeroHedge for the summary => https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/uk-confirms-first-cases-coronavirus-countries-ignore-who


> *UK Confirms First Cases Of Coronavirus As Countries Ignore WHO*
> Summary:
> 
> 
> UK confirms first two coronavirus cases after multiple scares
> Confirmed cases in China rise to 9,692 from 7,700 a day earlier
> Risk-off mood hits stocks
> Impact of virus "not fully reflected" in rigged China PMI number
> At least two-thirds of China's economy to stay shut.
> Goldman disagrees with Ross, says virus blowback will wipe 0.4% off US GDP growth
> 'The U.K. health department confirmed two cases of coronavirus in England on Friday, while the U.S. and Japan advised citizens to avoid traveling to China.
> Hong Kong schools shuttered until March 2
> Singapore closes borders to Chinese travelers, first southeast Asian nation to do so.
> 43 airlines cancel flights to China
> France successfully evacuates citizens
> 1,000 suspected virus cases 'under observation' in India
> * * *
> 
> Update (0650ET): India has only confirmed a single case of the virus, and the victim's condition is said to be improving, But the Guardian just noted that there are 1,000 people under observation in various parts of Kerala. 15 are in isolation wards in various hospitals.
> 
> Coronavirus: The confirmed cases around the world
> 
> Authorities were attempting to contact all the passengers who traveled on a flight from Kolkata to Cochin on Jan. 23 that the infected patient had been on, a day after she traveled from Beijing.
> 
> Meanwhile, earlier, Carrie Lam, Hong Kong's chief executive, offered some insight into the WHO's insistence that countries don't need to curtail travel to China, when she insisted that a complete border closure is "not the right answer."
> 
> * * *
> 
> For a few hours on Friday, the global community will turn away from obsessively following outbreak news to acknowledge the UK finally leaving the EU. But with US stocks on track to open in the red once again now that the first cases have been confirmed in the UK after multiple scares, all other news on Friday will be more or less irrelevant.
> 
> * * *
> 
> Though the WHO insisted that restricting travel to China during the outbreak simply wouldn't be necessary, airlines and governments continued to cancel flights and tighten border restrictions. American Airlines has acquiesced to the pilots union, which filed a lawsuit demanding that flights to China be cancelled, and cancelled two of its routes. According to Business Insider, 43 airlines - Lufthansa, British Air, United, American, Air Canada, Air Seoul, Air France, etc. - have cancelled some or all routes to China, with some of the cancellations stretching out until late March. Most have cited a drop in demand as the reason as passenger plane traffic has plummeted. Russia has closed its border, Italy has cancelled flights to China, while the US and Japan have implemented the most urgent travel warnings advising citizens not to travel to China. Other governments, including the UK, have warned against travel to Hubei.
> 
> * * *
> 
> *Singapore has also closed its borders to all Chinese travelers, becoming the first southeast Asian country to do so.*
> 
> The number of cases and the death toll haven't budged from late Thursday in New York, when we filed our last update. However, speculation about underreporting by the Chinese government has intensified in recent days. Though the total number of cases of the novel coroanvirus outbreak has already surpassed the total from the entire 2002-2003 SARS outbreak.
> 
> * * *
> 
> Research suggesting (though not confirming) that the virus can spread asymptomatically - meaning that individuals are contagious before they're even aware they have contracted the virus.
> 
> Roughly half of Chinese will stay home from work next week, and indefinitely until the virus is contained, according to local officials. This is tantamount to two-thirds of the economy - the second-largest economy in the world - virtually guaranteeing that knock-on impact to global growth will be severe.
> 
> * * *
> 
> *Now to the big news on Friday: UK health officials have confirmed two cases of the virus in England. *The victims are being treated at a hospital in Newcastle.
> 
> *BREAKING: two cases of coronavirus being treated at Newcastle's infectious disease unit.*
> 
> New Gov advice: anyone coming back from China with respiratory symptoms should self isolate for 14 days.
> Anyone coming back from Wuhan, with symptoms or not, should self isolate for 14 days.
> ​
> * * *
> 
> As Beijing scrambles to contain the outbreak, the contagion has spread to all 31 of mainland China’s provinces, municipalities and autonomous regions, and at least 19 other countries or territories. After confirming its first cases on Thursday and cancelling all flights to China, Italy has declared a state of emergency to last six months.





In some areas of China they are now using DRONES to spray disinfectant across cities to try to kill the virus.  https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/world-news/coronavirus-drone-army-deployed-spray-21399569

Does that mean the virus is now airborne?  
Does that mean the virus can survive for long periods of time on hard surfaces?

The CDC says the virus can be transmitted in bodily fluids, and is much smaller than the droplets expelled by a cough but the droplets actually will be caught by a surgical mask, which is why there is a run on surgical masks.  But now with China using drones to essentially spray cities with Lysol(?) one must ask how long the virus can exist on surfaces.



> *Coronavirus drone army deployed to spray disinfectant across China cities*
> 
> 
> 
> China has deployed an army of drones to disperse disinfectant over villages and cities in the latest attempt to combat the spread of coronavirus.
> 
> Footage posted to social media in the coastal provinces of Jilin, Shandong and Zhejiang shows drones hovering in the air as disinfectant liquid is sprayed from their underside.
> 
> One of the objects is seen being led along a street by its operator behind, also spraying the liquid onto the ground.  In the city of Heze, Shandong, one villager offered his personal drone which was able to disinfect an area of 16,000 square metres in a single morning.
> 
> It is not the first time authorities have been snapped spraying disinfectant, with images surfacing earlier this month of vehicles spreading the liquid.  But it is thought the unmanned aerial vehicles are proving to be a much faster method of delivering public hygiene than traditional methods.  Agricultural and police patrol drones have also been repurposed in China’s south-western Sichuan Province to release disinfectant in areas not otherwise easily accessible.
> 
> Crop protection officer Qin Chunhong, from the village of Longfu, Sichuan, reportedly disinfected his village on 30th January using his own drone.
> 
> He said: “Drones can cover a much wider area and achieve very good disease prevention results.
> 
> *“As disinfectant is harmless to humans, it doesn’t affect anyone’s daily life.”*


Full story at link => https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/world-news/coronavirus-drone-army-deployed-spray-21399569


----------



## pirate_girl

Yes, I know that.

Does Lysol kill the Coronavirus (2019-nCoV)?
Specific Lysol products have demonstrated effectiveness against viruses similar to 2019 Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV) on hard, non-porous surfaces. In accordance with the EPA Viral Emerging Pathogen Policy, the following Lysol products can be used against 2019 Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV) when used in accordance with the directions for use.

https://www.lysol.com/healthy-home/understanding-coronavirus/


----------



## pirate_girl

As of yesterday morning, our own germaphobe President has put together a task force.
This from The Daily Mail.
Some comments are borderline smart ass, of course-- claiming the Donald has all the answers to save the world.


----------



## Melensdad

Some quick info-graphics:


----------



## bczoom

OH CRAP!  I read about how these types of things hit the young and old the most/worst.  I just realized I'm old. I knew I was getting up there in years but never thought about diseases and such as I got older as I've always had a "well that doesn't affect me" mindset.


----------



## JimVT

I haven't seen anything about stopping the original source.


----------



## pirate_girl

Duh.
I entirely forgot about VOA.
Quite possibly my favourite news source.

Lots of stuff here.
https://www.voanews.com/science-health/coronavirus-outbreak


----------



## Bamby

Government orders quarantine of 195 evacuees from China due to coronavirus

by Kimberly Leonard | January 31, 2020 01:35 PM

The U.S. government has ordered a 14-day quarantine for the 195 passengers that were rushed out of Wuhan, China, to escape the spread of the coronavirus.

This is the first such decision to quarantine in the more than 50 years that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has had such authorities. Officials said that it was the best way to keep people living in the U.S. from getting infected.

"We would rather be remembered for overreacting than under-reacting," Dr. Nancy Messonnier, director of the National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases, said on a call with reporters Friday. The passengers were flown to a California military base on Wednesday and initially told they would face a delay of at least 72 hours.

The decision came as more than 9,800 people in China have been infected with the coronavirus and more than 200 have died. Officials are particularity concerned after a study published Friday in the Lancet showing that many people who have the virus aren't showing symptoms at all. That means the number of cases in China could be 10 times higher than estimated, and those people risk transmitting the virus to other people who would experience far more severe symptoms.

The passengers had been monitored before, during, and after they were flown to the U.S. They had been staying at the base voluntarily, though one tried to leave on Wednesday and was quarantined. Officials declined to provide more details about that person during Friday's press call.

Five people in the U.S. were infected with coronavirus after traveling to Wuhan, and a sixth got the infection from spouse. The U.S. told people not to travel to China at all after the World Health Organization declared a public health emergency over the virus on Thursday.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/healthcare/government-orders-quarantine-of-195-evacuees-from-china


----------



## pirate_girl




----------



## Melensdad

So looks like all the major news media got this story wrong.

Looks like the governments reacted too late.  

The predictions are pretty glum.  The medical community is basically saying this is not contained and we are likely facing a worldwide pandemic in the making.

What they don't know is the mortality rate.

I would strongly suggest reading some of this report.  => https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30260-9/fulltext


----------



## Melensdad

Feb 3 and its not under control.

Mortality rate of the typical seasonal flu was reported yesterday as 0.4
Mortality rate of the Novel Corona Virus, according to China is 2.0

In China they are burning now the bodies of those who have died, or who have suspected of dying, or who probably died rather than allowing traditional burial funerals.  


TODAY SwissAir announced on Twitter: _"Swiss flight LX15 from New York to Zurich reports a suspected coronavirus infection."_ The flight came from New York Airport JFK.

Zurich Airport has put a pandemic plan into effect, Swiss continues. Detailed information would follow. According to the airport website, flight LX15 landed in Zurich at 10:24 a.m. An Airbus A330 with the identification HB-JHG was in use. The flight also carried flight number UA 9715 in codeshare with United Airlines.

https://www.aerotelegraph.com/corona...g-aus-new-york

Yes we most likely just exported a case to the Swiss.




> *3rd Patient Tested For Coronavirus In New York As Pandemic Kills 362, With 17,388 Infected*
> 
> 
> Summary:
> 
> 
> There are currently 17,388 confirmed cases worldwide according to the latest data out of China's CDC, and 362 global fatalities
> Two confirmed cases have been reported in San Benito County in Northern California
> (including the first death outside of China, reported in the Philippines).
> China’s central bank will pump 150 billion yuan ($21.7 billion) into markets, and has banned short selling on Monday to prevent a sell-off.
> First death outside China recorded in the Philippines
> 24 countries reporting cases
> Philippines, New Zealand join list of countries several restricting travelers from China
> 36 French citizens evacuated from Wuhan show coronavirus symptoms.
> * * *
> 
> Update (2145ET): The potential coronavirus infection count in New York City has risen to three: that is how many people are currently being tested for coronavirus, according to the Health Department cited by ABC. The Health Department reports the patient has been hospitalized in New York Presbyterian-Queens, and is in stable condition.
> 
> 
> 
> As we reported yesterday, late on Saturday a person under 40 years old, who had spent time in mainland China, arrived in the city on Thursday and called 911 on Friday after feeling symptoms. Then, early on Sunday, a 60-year-old who displayed fever symptoms and shortness of breath was hospitalized at Flushing Hopsital Medical Center.
> 
> Officials say the patient being tested for coronavirus in New York City did everything right, and if that patient tests positive, the health department is ready to react.
> 
> "The symptoms were fever, cough and a runny nose. Like that simple. And they did the right thing for everybody else by coming in and getting care," said NYC Health Commissioner Oxiris Barbot, who added that an ambulance brought the patient to Bellevue Hospital.
> 
> Mayor Bill de Blasio said the patient did "exactly as they should have" by following the guidelines that New York City put out.
> 
> "Our radar's always set high, so we can screen these patients to stop it from affecting other people," said Patricia Tennill of Bellevue Hospital.
> 
> Officials report the testing will take 36-48 hours and depends on CDC testing capacity. The patient is currently stable.
> 
> * * *
> 
> Update (1935ET): A second person is now under observation for coronavirus in New York City according to PIX11 News. The individual, hospitalized at Flushing Hospital Medical Center, is over 60 years old and is reportedly in stable condition.







And now we have new TSA guidelines with Homeland Security enforcing the rules.

No Chinese Nationals in most airports, they must be funneled through 7 major airports like Chicago, Atlanta, LAX, etc where supposedly they are prepared to deal with the virus infected travelers.

https://apnews.com/e0779ae774a9ef7c0dcd3baddbdcef1c



> WASHINGTON (AP) — As the U.S. steps up its response to the coronavirus outbreak, the Department of Homeland Security is warning airline passengers that their flights may wind up rerouted if officials discover mid-flight that someone onboard has been in China in the last 14 days.
> 
> And Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said a “handful” of flights will be heading to China to bring Americans back home from Hubei Province, which is at the heart of the outbreak.
> 
> “The exact timing of those we’re still coordinating with the Chinese government,” Pompeo said at a news conference Monday in Tashkent, Uzbekistan. “We anticipate that they will happen in the next handful of days and we’ll return those American citizens.”
> 
> Pompeo said: “We may well end up bringing some citizens back from other countries as well. We’re working through the details on that.” And he said the U.S. may try to deliver some medical supplies to the region.
> 
> “We’re working closely and hand-in-hand with the Chinese government to try and resolve what is now this global epidemiological challenge, and so we’ll have more details exactly on when those flights will depart and when they return and how they’ll return to the United States before too long,” he said.
> 
> The DHS guidance on airline flights was included in a notice released by the department Sunday as new travel restrictions officially go into effect for flights commencing after 5 p.m. EDT.


----------



## waybomb

A possible cure:
https://fortune.com/2020/02/03/wuhan-coronavirus-treatment-thailand/

And then there's this:
https://www.republicworld.com/world-news/rest-of-the-world-news/briton-living-in-wuhan-beat-coronavirus-by-drinking-hot-whiskey.html


----------



## pirate_girl

waybomb said:


> A possible cure:
> https://fortune.com/2020/02/03/wuhan-coronavirus-treatment-thailand/
> 
> And then there's this:
> https://www.republicworld.com/world-news/rest-of-the-world-news/briton-living-in-wuhan-beat-coronavirus-by-drinking-hot-whiskey.html



That makes a whole lot of sense.
The use of drug combinations intended for other ailments are what often leads to successful treatment if not cure for others.

Honey and whiskey.
Mother nature's remedy?


----------



## Melensdad

pirate_girl said:


> That makes a whole lot of sense.
> The use of drug combinations intended for other ailments are what often leads to successful treatment if not cure for others.
> 
> Honey and whiskey. *With a twist of lemon!*
> Mother nature's remedy?



Fixed it for you


----------



## waybomb

Wifey fixed me up early in our relationship before we got married. Was sick, sick, sick.


First a little "spiritus" (probably spelled wrong - melted sugar mixed with polish grain alky), and then followed with a glass of of honey in lemon juice.


I was fine the next morning.


----------



## Melensdad

18% increase overnight.  

More from ZeroHedge, which has been spot on with their reporting while the rest of the media has been a week behind. 



> Update (1720ET): It's early Tuesday morning and China, which means we're getting another batch of statistics about the coronavirus outbreak - statistics that likely underplay the severity of the outbreak.
> 
> According to Chinese health authorities, 2,345 were confirmed on Monday, while another 64 died (including 48 in Wuhan alone).
> 
> Hubei Province is now reporting 13,522 cases of coronavirus infection (including 6384 in Wuhan), while 58,544 are under observation across China.
> 
> For those who are keeping score at home, that's a 18% rise in deaths overnight.



Clearly this is not contained. 

Clearly it was never contained.  

Clearly the Chinese were lying about this. 

Clearly the WHO sat on its hands for a week longer than it should have simply because they trusted China (_and publicly praised the Chinese response_)

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopoliti...atients-swarm-wuhan-hospital-hong-kong-closes


----------



## Melensdad

And yet another update, this from a surprise source:  NPR

While NPR has been reporting on the story, it has been one of the slowest to update.  It's now jumping on the updated numbers.  Finally.



> *Coronavirus Cases Have More Than Tripled In Past Week; 17,000 Sickened In China*
> Bill ChappellFebruary 3, 202011:10 AM ET
> 
> China Daily CDIC/Reuters
> *Updated at 5:40 p.m. ET, Feb 3*
> 
> China says it has more than 17,000 confirmed cases of the Wuhan coronavirus, representing a huge leap from the 4,400 cases reported as of last week. Chinese health officials said Monday morning that 2,829 new cases had been diagnosed in the past 24 hours alone.


----------



## EastTexFrank

pirate_girl said:


> Honey and whiskey.
> Mother nature's remedy?



I don't know about mother nature but it was certainly my mother's and grandmother's remedy.  A hot toddy made with blended Scotch whisky, honey, sugar and hot water was the cure for anything from a hangnail to a broken bone but was mainly used for colds during the winter.  I must have spent the winters during my younger years drunker than sh*t.  My grandmother, the woman from hell, used to have a toddy almost every night before bed to "help her sleep".  I bet!  However she did live until she was 94-years old.  If that's the case and the way I drink Scotch, I should be good until I'm at least 136-years old.


----------



## pirate_girl

EastTexFrank said:


> I don't know about mother nature but it was certainly my mother's and grandmother's remedy.  A hot toddy made with blended Scotch whisky, honey, sugar and hot water was the cure for anything from a hangnail to a broken bone but was mainly used for colds during the winter.  I must have spent the winters during my younger years drunker than sh*t.  My grandmother, the woman from hell, used to have a toddy almost every night before bed to "help her sleep".  I bet!  However she did live until she was 94-years old.  If that's the case and the way I drink Scotch, I should be good until I'm at least 136-years old.



Steven's Grandma Durkin used to hit it nightly.
She always said it was strictly for medicinal purposes.
His Dad used to put away the Bell's whisky.
Good Lord, it's true what they say about the Irish.
It helped him come up with some of his witticisms.


----------



## m1west

I think it is a lot worse than the Chinese government is reporting. The big tell tale is the Government response with locked down cities and mandatory Quarantine inside your home. With the  2% mortality rate reported they would not do that. They did not do that with SARS and that had a mortality rate in the 30% range. The military has taken over all of the hospitals and are patrolling the streets. Also I am now seeing reports on the news here that suggest that. You don't do that for the common cold. I think people here should start prepping for it now. I am, if you can get your hands on antiviral medicine I would be doing that., if not colloidal silver is known to kill viruses. My wife is Chinese and has family there. They live in the northern part of China where it is mostly un effected right now, they had to close there printing business until further notice from the government under threat of 10 years in prison along with all the other businesses the post offices are even closed. The streets look like a ghost town. Marty


----------



## mla2ofus

pirate_girl said:


> Good Lord, it's true what they say about the Irish.



  PG, you've probably heard that God invented whiskey so the Irish couldn't take over the world, LOL!!
Mike


----------



## EastTexFrank

mla2ofus said:


> PG, you've probably heard that God invented whiskey so the Irish couldn't take over the world, LOL!!
> Mike



First off, that was the Scots and there is no "e" in whisky.  Apart from that that, you got everything kinda right.


----------



## Melensdad

EastTexFrank said:


> First off, that was the Scots and there is no "e" in whisky.  Apart from that that, you got everything kinda right.



Scots were too drunk to spell and forgot the 'e'

Americans remembered the 'e' but then got all drunk and started fighting about how charred the barrel needed to be to age it in and renamed it bourbon, which also has no 'e' at all.

Then Jack Daniels came along and decided that Tennessee needed to set everyone straight so he distilled his "Tennessee Whiskey" in a county that prohibits drinking and the 'e' returned  






m1west said:


> *I think it is a lot worse than the Chinese government is reporting. *The big tell tale is the Government response with locked down cities and mandatory Quarantine inside your home. ...
> 
> *I think people here should start prepping for it now.* I am...
> 
> Marty



Agreed on these points.

I've been watching this since before it was on the mainstream news.  It was actually reported by financial news sources that I watch.  The financial sources indicated that factory work and the economy could be impacted because the growth rate was so high.  

Mainstream news didn't really pick up on the story until mid-January but this actually started in early December, so its been spreading for 2 full months, just just a couple weeks like most American's seem to believe.

Latest numbers posted below from Johns Hopkins:


----------



## EastTexFrank

m1west thinks it's time to start prepping for the epidemic to come in this country.  I'm not quite at that point yet but I am monitoring the situation.  Besides, I wouldn't have to do very much to get ready.  I'd need to stock up some on gas and diesel but really that's about it.  

As an aside, I can remember the Asian flu and the Hong Kong flu pandemics as a kid and young adult in the UK.  One was in 1957 and the other was in the late 60s.


----------



## JimVT

so if you need to leave china fly to Taiwan.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/com...ronavirus-outbreak/ar-BBZCaNR?ocid=spartandhp


----------



## Melensdad

Love in the age of a pandemic


----------



## Melensdad

A more optimistic viewpoint:

Full story at link — https://www.foxnews.com/health/past-outbreaks-shaped-coronavirus-response-us



> *How past outbreaks shaped coronavirus response in US
> *
> Alexandria Hein
> 
> The number of coronavirus cases has nearly tripled those of the 2002-2003 SARS outbreak, but the illness remains far less deadly. And while there is concern that there may be an eventual second wave of the virus that sickens thousands more, Fox News’ Dr. Marc Siegel, who has spent years studying the public and scientific community’s responses to viral outbreaks, said that we are not yet at the stage of labeling the coronavirus a pandemic.
> 
> “If we see pockets of sustained spread, that’s when we’ll call it a pandemic,” Siegel said. ...
> 
> About 99 percent of the coronavirus cases have been diagnosed in China, where inadequate health services and overwhelmed medical facilities are grappling to keep up with the influx of cases. Siegel also noted that the regional quarantines put in place on several cities – including Wuhan which is considered the virus epicenter – may not be helping to contain the overall outbreak.
> 
> ...
> 
> “I – and every other public health official – am concerned about how China has gone about this,” he said.
> 
> He also said China’s actions – or inactions – may be playing a role in the coronavirus fears that have spilled over to the U.S., where there have been 11 confirmed cases and no deaths. Comparatively, the flu has infected more than 20 million people and has been linked to more than 10,000 deaths.
> 
> “The coronavirus fears in the U.S. are bringing out the bad in people,” he said. “They’re over-personalizing the risk. We don’t have control over what is happening in China — China is a mess in terms of how they’re handing it.”
> 
> Siegel said Americans should be impressed and reassured by how the U.S. health agencies have been handling the outbreak and are supportive of the current travel restrictions and research going into fast-tracking potential vaccines.
> 
> ...


----------



## m1west

This corona virus causes pneumonia, I looked up mortality rate of pumonia. Depending on what strain of pumonia the mortality rate can be as high as 18% and thats not factoring in age or weakened immune system. To me that number more closely matches the response we are seeing in China. Marty


----------



## Melensdad

I wonder what the Anti-Vax moms will say about this?

LINK=>> https://www.cnbc.com/video/2020/02/...otential-vaccine-breakthrough-squawk-box.html


> *
> UK scientist makes coronavirus vaccine breakthrough, reports Sky News*
> 
> Sky News reported Wednesday morning that a British scientist has made a breakthrough in the race for a coronavirus vaccine. Dr. Scott Gottlieb, Pfizer board member and former FDA commissioner, joins “Squawk Box” by phone to discuss. James McGregor, chairman of APCO Worldwide’s greater China region, joins to break down the potential impact of the virus on businesses in China. makes coronavirus vaccine breakthrough, reports Sky News
> 
> Sky News reported Wednesday morning that a British scientist has made a breakthrough in the race for a coronavirus vaccine. Dr. Scott Gottlieb, Pfizer board member and former FDA commissioner, joins “Squawk Box” by phone to discuss. James McGregor, chairman of APCO Worldwide’s greater China region, joins to break down the potential impact of the virus on businesses in China.


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> I wonder what the Anti-Vax moms will say about this?
> 
> LINK=>> https://www.cnbc.com/video/2020/02/...otential-vaccine-breakthrough-squawk-box.html



So the virus expansion peak in china is extended indefinitely and the earliest we will see a vaccine is summer.


----------



## Melensdad

China may have accidentally posted actual data?

It’s dramatically different, and far worse, than the official numbers.  See the images at the bottom of this post

https://www.zerohedge.com/health/di...y-leak-true-terrifying-coronavirus-statistics



> This was not the first time Tencent has done this: as Taiwan Times notes, Chinese netizens have noticed that Tencent has on at least three occasions posted extremely high numbers, only to quickly lower them to government-approved statistics.
> 
> This is where it gets even more bizarre: contrary to claiming that this was just a "fat finger" mistyping of data, observant Chinese netizens also noticed that each time the screen with the large numbers appears, it shows a comparison with the previous day's data which demonstrates a "reasonable" incremental increase, much like comparisons of official numbers.
> 
> 
> This led many in the mainland to speculate that Tencent has two sets of data, the real data and "processed" data.
> 
> In short, two camps have emerged: one, the more optimistic, speculates that a coding problem could be causing the real "internal" data to accidentally appear. The other, far more pessimistically inclined, believes that someone behind the scenes is trying to leak the real numbers, as "the "internal" data held by Beijing may not reflect the true extent of the epidemic."






ZeroHedge Summary:

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopoliti...us-under-control-nearly-2000-quarantined-hong




> Wisconsin confirms first case of coronavirus, bringing US total to 12
> 
> First babies born infected with coronavirus
> 
> Hong Kong closes borders with mainland
> 
> Doctors say death rate exaggerated by Wuhan fatalities
> 
> 24,628 cases, 492 deaths
> 
> President Xi says China 'capable of suppressing outbreak
> 
> Cruise ship quarantined in Hong Kong
> 
> WHO asks for more money as it 'confirms' China's numbers
> 
> 2 planeloads of Americans evacuated from Wuhan landed in California early Wednesday
> 
> CDC says a total of 4 evacuations flights from Wuhan either have returned, or will return, to the US this week.
> 
> US Coast Guard checking ships arriving in US.
> 
> * * *
> 
> Update (1415ET): It hasn't even been two hours since the CDC affirmed that no new cases of the virus had been confirmed since the weekend, and Wisconsin Health Authorities have just confirmed the first case in their state - bringing the national total to 12.


----------



## Bannedjoe

We always knew we needed to stay far away from China on any level.
How much more is needed?


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> China may have accidentally posted actual data?
> 
> It’s dramatically different, and far worse, than the official numbers.  See the images at the bottom of this post
> 
> https://www.zerohedge.com/health/di...y-leak-true-terrifying-coronavirus-statistics
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ZeroHedge Summary:
> 
> https://www.zerohedge.com/geopoliti...us-under-control-nearly-2000-quarantined-hong



Now those numbers correlate with the response we are seeing also citizen reports coming out of China have been saying that. ( China is lying! )


----------



## Doc

Just saw a news blip about a nightmare situation going on near Japan.  A cruise ship with 4000 passengers has found 10 of them have the corona virus.  So now all are confined to their cabins.  Some of the worst are the interior cabins with no outside light or air.   What a nightmare.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

Damn. I couldn't imagine. 

Don't ask google why cornflakes were invented.


----------



## Melensdad

John Hopkins has upped the official numbers.  

The infected number is still 150,000 shy of what is suspected in China!


----------



## Melensdad

American citizens evacuated from China are quarantine for 14 days.   

This seems to make sense to me.  Arrive here on an evacuation flight from one of the Chinese hot zones and you get to be a guest of the US Military on an isolated base while the doctors check you daily for signs of any infection.  Common sense caution.

FULL STORY => https://abcnews.go.com/Internationa...licksource_4380645_4_heads_hero_live_hero_hed



> ...
> The United States has evacuated a number of its citizens from China amid the health crisis.
> 
> Two charter flights from Wuhan, with a total of approximately 350 passengers, landed at the Travis Air Force Base in Northern California on Wednesday. One of the planes refueled at the base before continuing on to Marine Corps Air Station Miramar in San Diego, according to a statement from U.S. Army Lt. Col. Christian Mitchell.
> 
> *Upon arrival at the final destination, all travelers will be screened by CDC medical personnel and placed under a federally mandated 14-day quarantine. *The U.S. Department of Defense "will work closely with our interagency partners and continue to provide support to the situation as requested," Mitchell said.
> 
> Two more evacuation flights from Wuhan are expected to arrive in the United States later this week. Passengers will go through a similar screening and quarantine process when they land at military bases in San Antonio, Texas, and Omaha, Nebraska.
> ...







Wisconsin now has a case of the Kung Flu. 

NYPost is reporting it here => https://nypost.com/2020/02/05/wisconsin-coronavirus-case-brings-total-infected-in-us-to-12/



> *Wisconsin coronavirus case brings total infected in US to 12*
> By Tamar Lapin
> 
> A case of the new coronavirus was confirmed in Wisconsin on Wednesday — bringing the number of people infected with the deadly disease in the US to 12.
> 
> *The adult patient traveled to Beijing before falling ill, and was exposed to people with the virus while traveling in China*, officials with the Wisconsin Department of Health Services said.
> 
> The unidentified person’s condition is reported to be mild, and did not require hospitalization, officials said. They are in self-quarantine at home.
> 
> “The risk of getting sick from 2019 novel coronavirus in Wisconsin is very low,” said State Health Officer Jeanne Ayers. “We are responding aggressively to the situation and monitoring all developments.”
> 
> There are 11 other confirmed cases in the US, including six in California, two in Illinois, and one each in Washington State, Arizona and Massachusetts.
> 
> The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on Wednesday said all known patients are “doing well.”
> 
> “The ones who were sicker have improved,” said Dr. Nancy Messonnier, director of the CDC’s National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases.








China now faking their numbers?

Compare yesterday's chart with the one posted here.

ZeroHedge was quoted in a prior post (_yesterday morning_) indicating the fact that China's illnesses have been growing by THOUSANDS students every day.  But not the current report.  *Today China is only reporting UNDER one hundred.  
*
No new cures have been reported.  No new treatments have been reported.  But in one day the number of cases reported has dropped exponentially in the hot zone?  

I just don't think it can be true


----------



## pirate_girl

*China is dispatching journalists to tell the coronavirus story it wants its people to hear*


https://qz.com/1798070/china-seeks-to-create-positive-media-coverage-about-coronavirus/

China’s central propaganda department said on Tuesday (Feb. 4) that it would dispatch more than 300 journalists to report on the disease, which has led to more than 28,000 infections and 563 deaths in the country. Zhang Xiaoguo, a top official of the department, said in a news program that it would treat propaganda regarding the control and prevention measures of the virus as its top priority.

The decision to send the journalists came on the heels of a meeting chaired by Chinese leader Xi Jinping held earlier this week, amid mounting public anger at the government’s handling of the crisis. During the meeting, Xi and some senior government officials emphasized the importance of enhancing the regime’s control over online media. The goals include “telling the moving stories of how [people] on the front line are preventing and fighting the virus, telling the story of how China is combating the virus, and showcasing the unity of the Chinese people in the face of the virus,” said the officials, according to the Xinhua news agency (link in Chinese).


----------



## NorthernRedneck

Now there's 2 cruise ships under quarantine. 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/05/asia/coronavirus-cruise-quarantines-intl-hnk/index.html

Don't ask google why cornflakes were invented.


----------



## pirate_girl




----------



## JimVT

just wait till it gets in the beef.


----------



## m1west

pirate_girl said:


> View attachment 122675



I just read the report. The doctor was 34 years old got infected on January 30 and now dead 6 days later. Personally I think the mortality rate is north of 20% along with being contagious, reports say you can get it 6 feet away from an infected host from breath. if you get it on your face you have it. Also the dead bodies are contagious for a period of time and it is present and infectious in poo. It will blow up in places like Africa, India and South America then who knows where ( sanctuary cities). Can still be actively spreading until April. Marty


----------



## waybomb

On on another note, they also are dealing with the pig disease and it was reported thousands of chickens had to be culled because the chicken disease is back.


----------



## Melensdad

waybomb said:


> On on another note, they also are dealing with the pig disease and it was reported thousands of chickens had to be culled because the chicken disease is back.



Swine Flu is now an international seasonal flu.  

Novel Corona may become just another seasonal flu in the future but seems to be a realistic threat to the population today.


----------



## Melensdad

NorthernRedneck said:


> Now there's 2 cruise ships under quarantine.
> 
> https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/05/asia/coronavirus-cruise-quarantines-intl-hnk/index.html
> 
> Don't ask google why cornflakes were invented.



And it looks like another cruise ship, this one in NEW JERSEY, may have passengers with Corona.  Apparently 4 passengers were removed from the ship in port.  Not sure if this ship is under quarantine yet.  Not sure if there is any reason for those passengers to worry yet.  



> Four people on the Royal Caribbean cruise ship docked in New Jersey where dozens were screened for coronavirus were taken to Newark’s University Hospital* “out of caution” *Friday morning — as video shows medics loading passengers into waiting ambulances.
> 
> ...
> 
> *One of the four travelers that had come from China for the Caribbean cruise — and are now hospitalized — had a fever on the cruise*, Bayonne Mayor Jimmy Davis told NBC New York.
> 
> The fever went away with Tylenol, he said.
> 
> Three others are under observation at the hospital, which has negative-pressure isolation rooms, ...​



FULL STORY AT NYPOST =>  https://nypost.com/2020/02/07/four-...hip-hospitalized-after-ship-docks-in-bayonne/​

...............


On another note, with the exception of the handful of new cases added by China yesterday, why is it that China typically reports about 3000 new cases per day?  Every day is the same, roughly 3000 cases.  Is it possible that they only have the capacity to process tests for 3000 cases a day?  So they report what they process not what is actually the case?  Just a question.  No answer.


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> And it looks like another cruise ship, this one in NEW JERSEY, may have passengers with Corona.  Apparently 4 passengers were removed from the ship in port.  Not sure if this ship is under quarantine yet.  Not sure if there is any reason for those passengers to worry yet.
> 
> 
> 
> FULL STORY AT NYPOST =>  https://nypost.com/2020/02/07/four-...hip-hospitalized-after-ship-docks-in-bayonne/​
> 
> ...............
> 
> 
> On another note, with the exception of the handful of new cases added by China yesterday, why is it that China typically reports about 3000 new cases per day?  Every day is the same, roughly 3000 cases.  Is it possible that they only have the capacity to process tests for 3000 cases a day?  So they report what they process not what is actually the case?  Just a question.  No answer.



What I think is happening is the Chinese are listing the majority of the people that have died as the cause of death being pneumonia which is the side effect of the corona virus. That would explain the strange reporting data.


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> What I think is happening is* the Chinese are listing the majority of the people that have died as the cause of death being pneumonia *which is the side effect of the corona virus. That would explain the strange reporting data.



I would bet you are correct.


----------



## pixie

Scientist says virus likely escaped from lab.
https://jameslyonsweiler.com/2020/0...irmation-of-a-laboratory-origin-of-2019-ncov/


----------



## Melensdad

pixie said:


> Scientist says virus likely escaped from lab.
> https://jameslyonsweiler.com/2020/0...irmation-of-a-laboratory-origin-of-2019-ncov/



There seems to be quite a few stories that support this theory.  

There also seems to be evidence that the unsanitary market was not the likely epicenter.


----------



## pixie

If you read that article and a related one on that website, they suggest that having been vaccinated against SARS increases ones suseptibility to this virus.


----------



## Melensdad

And yet again, China ups the number of infected by about 3000 people 

The US is holding steady at 12 cases within our borders.  Although in Japan there are at least 8 US citizens with the virus that were on a cruise ship but transferred to hospitals.

There are clearly more cases popping up around the Asian nations but airlines fly into and out of those countries without concern.  Japan seems to have a pretty good grip on their cases, many of which were identified on cruise ships and quickly hospitalized, with the remainder of the passengers quarantined on the ship.  Singapore, Hong Kong and Taiwan all seem to be trying to contain things but the barn door may have swung too wide open?  

Highlights from ZeroHedge => https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/more-400-million-people-lockdown-guangzhou-joins-quarantine


> Summary:
> 
> 
> Confirmed cases rise to just shy of 35K in China and 24 other countries, deaths surge by 86 to 722, set to surpass SARS total in hours; total number of people under observation jumps to an all time high of 189,660.
> Suspected cases rose to 27,657 from 26,359 the day before, with 6,107 people in in serious/critical condition. Patients who have recovered jumped to 2,050,
> 6,107 people are in serious/critical condition
> Reporter says 'real' death toll could be closer to 20k
> German scientists say coronavirus can survive for 9 days on surfaces
> Chinese quarantine expanded to Guangzhou; 400 million now on lockdown
> Singapore raises response level to Orange
> Hong Kong confirms case No. 25
> Death of Dr. Li stokes demands for more free speech in China
> * * *
> 
> Update (2000 ET): After two days of declines in the number of "new cases" reported by China's National Health Commission, and the latest number of total infected in China coming in below JPMorgan's daily estimate - no really, to JPM the number of daily new infections is just like the jobs report: it either beats or it misses...
> 
> 
> ... Saturday, Feb 8 saw an unexpected reversal in the downward slope in new cases, and as the NHC reported moments ago, as of Feb 7, China reported a total of 34,546 cases, (higher than JPMorgan's base case forecast of 34,224, shown below)...
> 
> 
> ... an increase of 3,385 overnight, and the first rise in new cases in three days, suggesting any hopes that the pandemic had already peaked were just crushed.
> 
> 
> 
> Adding the 365 international cases, means that as of Saturday, there were a total of 34,911 global cases, resulting in 724 deaths - an increase of 86 on the day, the biggest one day rises since the pandemic started - and a *mortality rate of 2.1%*, which is where it has been stuck for the past ten days. At this rate of increase in officially reported (which is vastly different from the actual true number) cases, the coronavirus pandemic will claim more lives than SARS in under 24 hours.
> 
> Here one surprising observation: *in the past two weeks what was initially an exponential curve in the number of new cases, has quietly shifted into a quadratic one, where the number of new cases is largely unchanged day after day, almost as if China wants to represent a higher number to preserve some credibility, but nowhere near as high as what it really is if the disease followed the traditional exponential progression.*
> 
> Some other observations: the number of suspected cases rose to 27,657 from 26,359 the day before, with 6,107 people in in serious/critical condition.  And while a record 722 have died - just 50 shy of the SARS record in 2003 - the number of those who have recovered from the diseases is now 2,050, with 25 total countries reporting cases.
> 
> _And speaking of reversals, there was another notable one in the number of people receiving medical attention in China, because after sliding dramatically and even shrinking today, on Saturday the number of people under observation once again jumped, rising to 3,615 after a drop of 309 the day before.​_
> One final point about all of the above: *China is notorious about manipulating all of its economic data, why on earth would it publish accurate pandemic data, especially when it has repeatedly refused the presence of foreign observes in its fight to contain the deadly virus.* As such, readers can simply ignore all of the above Chinese "goalseeks" and even Bloomberg notes that "total deaths may be far higher, given reports of an overwhelmed health system in Hubei, central China."
> 
> Looking ahead,* JPMorgan predicts that the epidemic will peak in 1.5 months*, i.e., by mid-March, at which point the total infected people will grow to 85K.
> 
> 
> 
> * * *
> 
> Update: (1500ET): When the dust has settled and the novel coronavirus has finally died out, *we can't imagine how the World Health Organization will manage to revive its reputation.*
> _
> After repeatedly defending China as a beacon of "transparency" and model for other emerging economies, the death of Dr. Li stands as a rebuke to WHO head Dr. Tedros, who has kowtowed to China at every turn._



Johns Hopkins link to their outbreak map => https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6


----------



## NorthernRedneck

Another trickle effect of the coronavirus. Auto manufacturers have had to close their plants temporarily. Wonder if this will have an effect on part supply over here. 

https://www.autoblog.com/2020/02/07...lant-closures-list/?ncid=edlinkusauto00000016

Don't ask google why cornflakes were invented.


----------



## pixie

I think one of the scariest things I've read is the Englishman on a cruise ship who tested positive but had no symptoms.


----------



## Melensdad

There is now an American death reported by the New York Times.

A woman who was 60 years old, *living in Wuhan*, with other underlying heath issues.  

She chose not to evacuate on one of the American evacuation flights.

_Few details about the American, who died on Thursday, were immediately available. According to the United States Embassy in Beijing, the person was 60 years old and died at Jinyintan Hospital in Wuhan, the inland metropolis at the center of the epidemic. Two people familiar with the matter said the person was a woman and had underlying health conditions._​

It should be noted that ALL of the American cases (_12 of them_) that are inside the United States are expected to recover.  Some have already been released from the hospital.


----------



## pirate_girl

Mark Levin shared this on his FB timeline linked into American Thinker.
https://www.americanthinker.com/blo...icking_and_screaming_into_big_state_pens.html
The video is also on twitter.


----------



## pirate_girl




----------



## m1west

pirate_girl said:


> View attachment 122798



My wife is Chinese from China, I would bet there are few people on this forum that hate the Chinese government more than she does or the dis like of Democrats in this country trying to emulate the Chinese government. Her last trip there ( September ) on her return said that the country is looking like when Mao was in power, political signs and slogans everywhere. There is nothing that they are not capable of to stay in power. Marty


----------



## pirate_girl




----------



## Melensdad

It is not contained

It was never contained

China has been lying

The W.H.O. has lost credibility  

Crematoriums are burning bodies in Wuhan around the clock to the point there is now a human organic smog visible by satellite.  

Chinese exiles claim 50,000+ dead.  A source I have says even more.  

Mortality may be closer to 5%

The US government is investigating the rumor the virus is man made

Still the official numbers remain low.


----------



## Melensdad

UK enacts special powers over citizens:  https://www.breitbart.com/europe/20...d-imminent-threat-activates-emergency-powers/

*UK Declares Coronavirus ‘Serious and Imminent Threat’, Activates Emergency Powers*
Oliver JJ Lane10 Feb 2020

The British government has declared Coronavirus a “serious and imminent threat”, a classification which gives the secretary of state for health emergency powers to detain people suspected of being infected, as four more cases emerge.

Until now, the roughly 250 Britons quarantined at two hospitals after arriving back into the United Kingdom from China have been in isolation voluntarily on the advice of the government. But With the declaration *“that the incidence or transmission of novel Coronavirus constitutes a serious and imminent threat to public health”, the hospitals in the UK become legally recognised as “isolation” areas, the Department of Health said in a statement.

This means the government can now keep people in isolation** “for their own safety”,* even if it is against their will, a spokesman for the department said.

State broadcaster the BBC reports this change in stance from the government came as one individual in the Wirral quarantine hospital was planning to leave against the advice of doctors before his two week incubation period isolation was complete. The Secretary of State for Health Matt Hancock declaring Coronavirus a “serious and imminent threat” permits the government to detail that individual and others to prevent the spread of the disease.

...

Seven of these cases so far have been infected by one person, the eight patient who has been dubbed a “super spreader”. The so-called super spreader is a UK businessman who caught Coronavirus in Singapore before passing it on to seven other people on a ski holiday in France before returning to the United Kingdom, at which point he began to show symptoms....​





The news just gets worse and worse but it seem to be back page and alternate source coverage of the story.  All the mainstream sources are missing the story or simply parroting the official Chinese numbers.

_At least one of every two instances of human-to-human transmission of the new coronavirus is believed to occur while the first patient is not yet showing symptoms, according to an estimate by a group of Japanese university researchers.

Based on its determination, the team, headed by Hokkaido University professor Hiroshi Nishiura, has called for preventive measures as well as reinforcing the medical care system against a potential sharp rise in coronavirus patients, rather than focusing exclusively on isolation as a way to contain the disease.

According to the estimate based on 26 human-to-human infection cases released by six countries such as China, Thailand and the United States, the timing of the secondary infection was shorter than previously thought._​
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopoliti...-contain-outbreak-diamond-princess-passengers


----------



## pirate_girl

China has been lying.
Yup.


----------



## Melensdad

Of course California would screw up the quarantine  

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/health/story/2020-02-10/san-diego-county-has-firt



> *San Diego County’s first coronavirus case mistakenly released from hospital
> Infected patient was cleared by CDC, then returned to UC San Diego Health
> *
> A botched test result allowed an evacuee infected with the coronavirus to leave a San Diego hospital Monday after initially being told by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention that they were in the clear.
> 
> The situation is detailed in a brief statement released by UC San Diego Health Monday evening, which says that all four quarantine patients admitted to its isolation units last week were discharged back to quarantine quarters at Marine Corps Air Station Miramar after the CDC shared with caregivers that coronavirus tests came back negative.
> 
> _“This morning, CDC officials advised San Diego (County) Public Health that further testing revealed that one of the four patients tested positive for (novel coronavirus),” _the UCSD statement said. _“The confirmed positive patient was returned to UC San Diego Health for observation and isolation until cleared by the CDC for release.”_
> 
> The university said that it also has received another patient with possible coronavirus symptoms, bringing the total hospitalized out of Miramar quarantine to eight.
> 
> The two patients currently in isolation units at UCSD facilities are said to be “doing well” with “minimal symptoms.”
> 
> It was not immediately clear what route the infected evacuee took out of the university hospital nor which of UCSD’s two main medical centers was involved. It also was not clear how long the infected evacuee was circulating inside quarantine after being told they tested negative. CDC, university and county health officials were not immediately available Monday night to comment.
> 
> ...
> 
> In the United States, the CDC reported a dozen cases Monday, but that number does not appear to include the new case in San Diego. As of Feb. 2, the California Department of Public Health has confirmed a total of six cases in the state: two in Santa Clara County, two in San Benito County, one in Los Angeles County and one in Orange County.


----------



## Melensdad

The good news is there is no outbreak in North America.  Canada is holding steady and the US is at 13 cases.  There also seems to be strong evidence that the virus does not seem to be fatal to children through young adults if they are otherwise healthy.  

The bad news is there is a cruise ship that seems to be a virus incubator, the whole of mainland China seems to be getting far worse, and many nations with close travel proximity to China have zero ability to deal with an outbreak.  80% of the fatalities are patients aged 60 and older and most of those have other conditions that contributed to their issues.

There is another cruise ship which is not being allowed to dock in any nation.  It is off the coast of Thailand or possibly Vietnam now.  There is ZERO evidence of any Coronavirus infection on the ship at this time but it is still not allowed to get to shore.  There is now a serious concern the ship will run out of food.  The W.H.O. may end up sending a crew out to the ship to test for Corona.

A prominent UK researcher suggests 60% of the world will become infected and while some people suggest infections will peak in March/April others are less optimistic.  The W.H.O. says the world is 18 months away from a vaccine.

The map below suggests that Japan is in trouble, but the REALITY SEEMS TO BE that the cases in Japan are all in isolation and all arrived on cruise ships.  South Korea also seems to have contained it's corona cases.  India, Thailand and a few other nations, however, pose serious concerns as there seems to be no serious infrastructure to track contacts and travel restrictions are currently non-existent.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

If (when) this hits India and Africa it will be bad for them.  They don't have the authoritarian regimes that can impose martial law and attempt to control it like China did.  

It's gonna spread ... like a virus.


----------



## m1west

I think here in the US if nothing starts happening here in another 30 days we should be OK. Things that can go wrong are 
1- if it would get into South America and explodes then comes here to the sanctuary cities.
2- if someone here that has been out of the country and cleared then comes down sick after passing it around there community for a period of time.
3- We don't keep the travel ban with China long enough
4- it mutates into something really deadly before it is under control.
5- everything else I didn't think of
Marty


----------



## pixie

They owned up...a little.
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopoliti...ted-positive-coronavirus-treated-small-number


----------



## Melensdad

Boom.  And the numbers exploded.

15,000 new cases


----------



## Bannedjoe

I thought this was interesting...

I went into homedopes today for a 7 inch grinder, and concrete grinding pad.
decided it would be a good idea to get a few simple dust masks.

The entire display was ravaged, with only the really high dollar ones available.

I made mention of it to the cashier.

She said buses full of Chinese tourists had been stopping to buy up the supplies to send them back home.


----------



## mak2

Bannedjoe said:


> I thought this was interesting...
> 
> I went into homedopes today for a 7 inch grinder, and concrete grinding pad.
> decided it would be a good idea to get a few simple dust masks.
> 
> The entire display was ravaged, with only the really high dollar ones available.
> 
> I made mention of it to the cashier.
> 
> She said b*uses full of Chinese tourists had been stopping to buy up the supplies to send them back home.*



I just want to make sure I understand what you are saying.  Are there really busloads of Chinese tourists going to home depots and buying up all the dust mask?  Is that really what you are saying?  but they could not afford the expensive ones?


----------



## Bannedjoe

mak2 said:


> I just want to make sure I understand what you are saying.  Are there really busloads of Chinese tourists going to home depots and buying up all the dust mask?  Is that really what you are saying?  but they could not afford the expensive ones?



There are many tour busses that come through the area going between Phx and Las Vegas.
It's not unusual to see a busload of Japanese, Chinese, or really any group of people gathered by ethnicity climb off a tour bus anywhere along the route.

They are quite often seen stopping for food and a chance to blow up* some poor establishments' restrooms.

I should have taken a picture, dammit, but it didn't occur to me at the time.
The mask area was probably 4 maybe even 5 or six shelves high, and at least 5 or 8 feet wide.
All the singles, and the multipacks of the simple painting and dust masks were just gone!
The only ones left were the ones that ran like $5ea with the little flap built in the front, and the much higher end ones with replaceable filters that looked more like gas masks. 
They were running like $30 or so and on up, there were plenty of those.

I was talking with my brother in Santa Barbara last night about it.
His teenage son just had nose surgery, and I guess they suggested some dust masks for him.
My brother said he experienced the same thing over there, not a dust mask to be found.


*Blow up
Completely trash


----------



## pirate_girl

Maybe they're buying the masks for the cats.
Meow!


----------



## Melensdad

So this hits close to home.  Highland, Indiana.  I lived there for a decade.  I lived in the adjacent town for 2 decades.  I now live about 20 miles south, as Highland is in the north part of the county and my family moved to the rural south part of the county.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/life...0200212-6nl3ls2ozzahbonl2j3ftbqxwi-story.html



> *Northwest Indiana couple quarantine themselves over fears of coronavirus after trip to China. ‘What I just experienced? I never want to experience it here’
> *
> 
> In China, Ken Zurek of Northwest Indiana saw the disruption of the novel coronavirus — bustling cities turned to ghost towns, businesses shuttered, citizens confined to their homes, a world on pause in fear of a quickly-spreading virus.
> 
> “What I just experienced? I never want to experience it here,” said Zurek, 63, a concrete business owner who traveled last month to China with his wife, Annie, 60, to visit her family and meet their new baby granddaughter. After learning of the virus and cutting their visit short to return home after 10 days, the Zureks decided to quarantine themselves in their Highland, Indiana, home for about two weeks even though they haven’t shown any signs of the virus, like fever and cough.
> 
> The self-quarantine — not ordered by health professionals — is winding down and the Zureks, as well as their family back in China, all have remained healthy, he said.
> 
> Ken Zurek said he took the precaution to be extra careful after he saw the devastation of the virus in China. He said he didn’t want to be the cause of any illness in the United States. “I didn’t want to be the start of that domino effect.”
> 
> The couple planned to spend about four weeks in China, mostly in Chongqing, where Annie Zurek’s family lives and is about 500 miles from Wuhan, the epicenter of the outbreak. News of the coronavirus had just begun to break in the United States when the couple arrived in China on Jan. 19, Ken Zurek said, so they didn’t know a virus similar to SARS and MERS had started to spread.
> 
> Soon after they arrived, they learned of the virus and noticed its effect, he said. At first they saw fewer people on the streets than normal, some wearing face masks. Within a couple days, nearly everyone donned masks and streets that would normally be packed with people shoulder to shoulder, were empty, Zurek said.
> 
> “Usually it’s like New York City … people are everywhere,” he said. “When you take bus ... you never have a seat on the bus. It’s always packed. But we got to see a ghost town, no doubt about it.”
> 
> Soon the only open businesses in the city were grocery stores and pharmacies, and everyone stayed indoors, Zurek said. Masks were hard to find, but their family had a supply.
> 
> While inside, Zurek said he and his wife felt safe, and were happy to spend time with family and their new granddaughter. But they also constantly sought out news sources to read the tally of those infected, as well as those dead from the virus.
> 
> “My biggest fear was leaving my safe zone,” he said, especially being in the Chongqing airport, which he said could be a route for those headed to or leaving Wuhan, where the virus started.
> 
> The couple decided they should leave China while they could, anticipating the United States would eventually restrict or halt flights coming from the country. But the only flight Zurek could find was for early February, which he thought might be too late. And when he’d try to call the airlines, he couldn’t get through and the websites would crash, jammed with traffic.
> 
> “Every day my wife would tell me, ‘We’ve got to leave early. This is going to get bad,’” he said. Because Annie Zurek is not an American citizen and instead has a green card, she wasn’t able to get a flight arranged by the State Department to return to the U.S., Ken Zurek said, and he didn’t want to go home without her.
> 
> When they woke up the morning of Jan. 29, Zurek said his wife told him to leave while he could, and she would stay behind. “I said, ‘No. We came here together; we’ll leave together.’”
> 
> “This was the only time I was really scared,” Zurek added. “At that point I really realized I could die here.”
> 
> Zurek called his sister, who was staying at the couple’s home, watching their cat, and she was able to get through to the airlines and then called him back with the airline representative also on the phone.
> 
> The airline representative told him “‘if you can get to the airport in two hours, you have the last two seats,’” Zurek said. “We packed so fast.”
> 
> At the airport, everyone wore masks, he said. Inside the plane, flight attendants and the pilot also donned masks.
> 
> Zurek said he didn’t see any screening for fever or symptoms once they arrived at O’Hare. “We walked right out the airport exit.”
> 
> At that point, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention had already begun screening passengers at several airports, including O’Hare, but only for travelers from areas closer to the epicenter of the outbreak in China.
> 
> Zurek said he and his wife continued to wear masks, including during their Uber ride, until they arrived home, and haven’t left their home since their return.
> 
> He said he contacted state and local health departments in Indiana, and reported where they were in China, and that they have shown no symptoms. Officials told him they didn’t need to remain home, but the couple decided to be “overly cautious,” Zurek said.
> 
> *STORY CONTINUES AT THE LINK ABOVE*





China is grinding to a total economic halt.

Numerous media sources show the cities, each with 5 to 15 million residents, resemble ghost towns with people confined ... or confining themselves... to their apartments.  Businesses closed.  Transportation unused.  Factories shuttered.

Their economy has taken a serious hit and its about to hit the rest of the world.

Full story, with graphs and charts => https://www.zerohedge.com/economics...d-property-sales-traffic-all-approaching-zero



> *China Is Disintegrating: Steel Demand, Property Sales, Traffic All Approaching Zero*
> 
> In our ongoing attempts to glean some objective insight into what is actually happening "on the ground" in the notoriously opaque China, whose economy has been hammered by the Coronavirus epidemic, yesterday we showed several "alternative" economic indicators such as real-time measurements of air pollution (a proxy for industrial output), daily coal consumption (a proxy for electricity usage and manufacturing) and traffic congestion levels (a proxy for commerce and mobility), before concluding that China's economy appears to have ground to a halt.
> 
> That conclusion was cemented after looking at some other real-time charts which suggest that there is a very high probability that China's GDP in Q1 will not only flatline, but crater deep in the red for one simple reason: *there is no economic activity taking place whatsoever.*
> 
> We start with China's infrastructure and fixed asset investment, which until recently accounted for the bulk of Chinese GDP. As Goldman writes in an overnight report, in the Feb 7-13 week, *steel apparent demand is down a whopping 40%, but that's only because flat steel is down "only" 12% Y/Y *as some car plants have ordered their employee to return to work (likely against their will as the epidemic still rages).
> 
> However, it is the far more important - for China's GDP -* construction steel sector where apparent demand has literally hit the bottom of the chart, down an unprecedented 88% Y/Y* or as Goldman puts it, "construction steel demand is approaching zero."
> 
> But wait, there's more...



Time to buy some food, buy some meds, buy some disinfectants, wait it out?


And in Europe, where there is much more cross travel we see the first death.  This one of a Chinese tourist who brought the virus with him.  No clue how many people he may have infected.

ABC News => https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireS...ource_4380645_2_heads_hero_live_headlines_hed

_*France announces 1st death in Europe of virus patient*

PARIS -- France's health minister has announced the first coronavirus death in Europe.

Minister Agnes Buzyn says Saturday that "I was informed last night of the death of an 80-year-old patient who had been hospitalized ... since Jan. 25."

The patient, a Chinese tourist from the province of Hubei, had a lung infection caused by the COVID-19 virus. He arrived in France on Jan. 16, then was hospitalized on Jan. 25 under strict isolation measures. His condition deteriorated rapidly.

His daughter was also hospitalized but authorities say she is expected to recover..._​


----------



## pirate_girl

Please do read the following link thoroughly from the feral irishman as well as the comments re: zerohedge.
https://theferalirishman.blogspot.com/2020/02/a-thorough-article-on-corona-virus.html?m=1

Several video sources at the YouTube link.
http://m.youtube.com/user/MEDCRAMvideos/videos


----------



## pixie

Here's a link suggesting that the outbreak May be related to mandatory vaccinations
https://thewatchtowers.org/chinas-m...kNsUBpBZGZnaZiC4MLqvUPTuL3S76tK_aWYdSFQ5Lug1k


----------



## Melensdad

I have not seen where anything I quoted from ZeroHedge has been wrong so far.  In fact they seem to be correct and generally a few days ahead of the MSM with regard to trends.


----------



## Melensdad

A Japanese tourist, visiting Hawaii, apparently brought Corona with him to two islands, before returning to Japan.

Based on the timeline, he got infected in Japan, flew to Maui, where he still showed no symptoms, then onto Oahu, where he became symtomatic while staying in a timeshare on the island.  He returned to Japan, was tested, and found to have the Covid-19 virus.

Honestly I'm a bit surprised that Hawaii is not already a hot spot given the proximity and transportation hub that links much of Asia to north and south America.

Reported by New York Times, several other sources and this story reported by USNews => https://www.usnews.com/news/best-st...who-visited-hawaii-confirmed-with-coronavirus

Full story at link above:





> *Japanese Man Who Visited Hawaii Confirmed With Coronavirus*
> Hawaii officials are trying to learn more about a Japanese tourist's travel in the islands because he has been confirmed to have the coronavirus.
> 
> By JENNIFER SINCO KELLEHER, Associated Press
> 
> HONOLULU (AP) — A man who visited Hawaii was confirmed to have coronavirus when he returned home to Japan, Hawaii officials said Friday.
> 
> Health officials were tracking down details about his travel in the Aloha State, including his flight information and people with whom he had close contact.
> 
> The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention notified Hawaii about the man having the illness known as COVID-19 on Friday morning, Hawaii Health Director Bruce Anderson said.
> 
> The man was in Hawaii Jan. 28 to Feb. 7. He first visited the island of Maui, where he had no symptoms, Anderson said. He was on Oahu, the state's most populated island, Feb. 3-7. While on Oahu, he had cold-like symptoms, but no fever, Anderson said.
> 
> He developed more serious symptoms when he returned to Japan, where he was tested and found to be positive for the illness, Anderson. He did not seek medical care in Hawaii, Anderson said.
> 
> Because of when his symptoms began, officials believe he became infected in Japan or while in transit to Hawaii, said state epidemiologist Dr. Sarah Park.
> 
> He is from Japan's Aichi Prefecture. The man was traveling with his wife, and while on Oahu, they stayed in Grand Waikikian By Hilton, officials said.
> 
> “Our focus at this point is to try and understand who potentially this person may have had close, prolonged contact," Park said, adding that they're concentrating on his whereabouts while on Oahu because that's where he developed symptoms.
> 
> If any close contacts are identified, those people would be isolated for 14 days, Anderson said. ...





In the mean time the official count is now within grasping distance of 70,000 infected.  China confirmed it can only test about 3000 people per day, so its pretty obvious that some of the financial reports indicating that the virus is far more widespread are true, and its undercounted by 10's if not 100's of thousands in China.


----------



## m1west

I not panicking but I think it coming to the US in a substantial way is inevitable. I just don't know what to believe about the statistics on this virus. Reports are all over the place from no problem to devastating. I think the consensus is correct about the transmission of it but the mortality rate is anyones guess. Marty


----------



## pirate_girl

I'm not panicking either, Marty.


----------



## Melensdad

HIV drugs to be tested in Japan to treat Corona virus.

This follows some reports that doctors in Thailand used HIV drugs, in conjunction with drugs used to treat flu, have been successful in treating some severe cases of Corona.

Japan is also restricting the size of public gatherings and many workplaces are pushing "work from home" policies to limit public interactions and the possible spread of the disease.  Honestly this seems odd to me given that the cases in Japan seemed to have been contained aboard the cruise ship and in some selected hospitals.  Apparently not, as the article indicates that there are now 3 cases diagnosed in the general public.


FULL STORY AT LINK =>https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-as-diamond-princess-cases-rise-idUSKBN20C02C



> *Japan plans HIV drug trials to fight coronavirus as Diamond Princess cases rise*
> 
> TOKYO (Reuters) - Japan plans to start trials of HIV medications to treat coronavirus patients as an increase in the number of cases poses a growing threat to the economy and public health, the government’s top spokesman said on Tuesday.
> 
> The government is making_ “preparations so that clinical trials using HIV medication on the novel coronavirus can start as soon as possible,” _Yoshihide Suga told a briefing, but added he could not say how long it might take to approve a drug’s use.
> ...
> 
> Elsewhere, three more cases were diagnosed in Wakayama Prefecture, including the son of a doctor infected with the virus, local media said.
> ...
> 
> HIV drugs have been touted as a potential cure for the coronavirus, which has killed almost 1,900 people in mainland China. No therapy has yet proven fully effective against the infection.
> 
> People in China have begun exploring unorthodox ways to get treated, with some appealing to HIV patients and unauthorised importers for medicine.
> 
> In Thailand, doctors said they appeared to have had some success in treating severe cases of the virus with a combination of medications for flu and HIV.
> 
> ...​


----------



## m1west

Just watched a government health official on the news star that the corona virus could be up to 20 time worse than the flu ?


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> Just watched a government health official on the news star that the corona virus could be up to 20 time worse than the flu ?



Well that is probably just a guess?

We have zero reliable data from China, which is where the vast majority of the cases still exist.  

I think Japan may be able to provide the world some truth on this disease.  They are dealing with a very large number of cases, the vast majority of those have been imported on a single cruise ship.  But as they also have a highly developed society and medical system that is open to sharing with the world.  So as the 600 to 700 known cases in Japan develop we can watch the progression of the disease, the treatment of the individuals and find out more about not only the mortality rate but also the incubation period and the infectious & contagious properties.  

We can also start to watch AFRICA as a case was just found in Egypt, imported by a 'foreigner' who is traveling.  As Africa is largely less developed than much of the western world, and is dealing with multiple different public health issues, the more fragile nations of Africa may become problematic.  

For those who don't know, several African nations have very close economic ties to China with direct air connections so it is possible that some corona cases already exist but remain undiagnosed.


LINK => https://www.zerohedge.com/geopoliti...d-diamond-princess-one-day-quarantine-set-end


> *Japan Confirms 88 More Cases Aboard 'Diamond Princess', Bringing Total To 542 One Day Before Quarantine Set To End*
> 
> Coronavirus: 44 new cases confirmed on cruise ship in Japan
> 
> Last night, the western press exposed the Americans for breaking Japan's quarantine on the 'Diamond Princess' by ferrying some 14 infected individuals to the US. But with one day left to go before the Japanese government ends its quarantine and releases thousands of terrified and paranoid passengers into the streets of Tokyo.
> 
> On Tuesday, another 88 passengers from the Diamond Princess were diagnosed with the virus, bringing the total to 542.​Japan has completed tests for all passengers and crew aboard the ship as of Monday, but the results for the last batch of tests aren't expected until Wednesday, the day that the quarantine is slated to end. So far, results are back for 2,404 passengers and crew, out of the 3,711 who were  on board the ship when the quarantine began on Feb. 5.


----------



## Jim_S RIP

Coronavirus: Nearly 80% of American Factories in Shanghai Say They Lack Workers
by JOHN CARNEY17 Feb 2020

https://www.breitbart.com/economy/2020/02/17/shanghai-supply-chain-coronavirus/



American factories in China are warning that they do not have enough staff to get their production lines fully back online as plants re-open after the extended coronavirus shutdown.
Nearly 80 percent of U.S. businesses in the Shanghai area say they lack the manpower to run at full speed, according to the American Chamber of Commerce in Shanghai. Forty-one percent said their biggest challenge in the next two to four weeks will be a lack of workers. Thirty percent said logistics issues will be their biggest concern.

The lack of staff raising the prospects of disruptions to global supply chains. The economic fallout from the coronavirus could include hits to production in regions, including the U.S., where the virus itself has been scarce but which are dependent on Chinese inputs for goods. China is one of the top three suppliers, alongside Canada and Mexico, of intermediate goods that go into final products produced in the U.S. It is likely the largest supplier of intermediate goods to the U.S. economy counting its exports to third countries that produce final goods sold in the U.S.

Here is what the American Chamber of Commerce’s survey, released Monday, found:


48% of companies report their global operations are already impacted by the shutdown
78% of companies do not have sufficient staff to run a full production line
41% of companies say a lack of staff is their biggest challenge in the next 2-4 weeks; 30% of companies say logistics issues will be their biggest concern
Over the next few months, 58% of companies expect demand for their output to be lower than normal
38% of companies do not have sufficient masks/other supplies to protect their staff from coronavirus infection
35% of companies ranked a clearer explanation of requirements as the most important thing government officials could do to speed up factory opening approvals

China’s ruling Communist Party has ordered local officials to begin re-opening businesses and factories. But ongoing quarantine rules will make travel and returning to work difficult for many workers. Others may choose to stay away until there is reliable evidence that the outbreak is contained enough to make returning to work safe.


----------



## Melensdad

Apple is running out of iPhones

Jaguar/Land Rover can't get parts from China an may shut down their assembly line in 2 weeks

Samsung and other Korean companies may be in better shape, at least those than minimally source from China

This is a world wide event and it will affect all economies.  That is why I started looking at this.  The economies are probably going to contract instead of expand.  Tech stocks could take a hit?  A lot of drugs and medical devices are made in China too, many antibiotics, plastic medical supplies, etc.


----------



## pixie

Drugs are something too worry about; other than that, our food supply should be safe until some machine breaks down. People don't NEED a new phone or Land Rover....

It will surely have an economic impact. I'm just praying that that is all.


----------



## Melensdad

pixie said:


> Drugs are something too worry about; other than that, our food supply should be safe until some machine breaks down. *People don't NEED a new phone or Land Rover....
> *
> It will surely have an economic impact. I'm just praying that that is all.



Agreed on this point.

But I made the point to illustrate how global we have become with our manufacturing.  And the point you made about _"until some machine breaks down"_ is an excellent point to consider too.  That could make things very very serious.  So much of what we have today, probably far more than any of us understands, relies on something from somewhere else in the world.  

If the virus stays in China then we will all be seriously inconvenienced.

If it gets loose in Mexico, where we have major trade with both food and material goods like appliances, automobiles and all sorts of small parts, then it is likely to become a big pain in the bottom.


----------



## marchplumber

Melensdad said:


> Agreed on this point.
> 
> But I made the point to illustrate how global we have become with our manufacturing.  And the point you made about _"until some machine breaks down"_ is an excellent point to consider too.  That could make things very very serious.  So much of what we have today, probably far more than any of us understands, relies on something from somewhere else in the world.
> 
> If the virus stays in China then we will all be seriously inconvenienced.
> 
> If it gets loose in Mexico, where we have major trade with both food and material goods like appliances, automobiles and all sorts of small parts, then it is likely to become a big pain in the bottom.




Agreed.  It could very well get "ugly"....

I'll take inconvenience over morgue most any day.....

No matter how this plays out, a LOT of people are dying in a short time......I pray for them all.

God bless, 
Tony


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> Agreed on this point.
> 
> But I made the point to illustrate how global we have become with our manufacturing.  And the point you made about _"until some machine breaks down"_ is an excellent point to consider too.  That could make things very very serious.  So much of what we have today, probably far more than any of us understands, relies on something from somewhere else in the world.
> 
> If the virus stays in China then we will all be seriously inconvenienced.
> 
> If it gets loose in Mexico, where we have major trade with both food and material goods like appliances, automobiles and all sorts of small parts, then it is likely to become a big pain in the bottom.



If it breaks loose in Mexico it will be in every sanctuary city in the country festering for a few weeks then look out.


----------



## tiredretired

I'll say it again, folks.  Stock up on freeze dried foods and water.  Be in a position to stay at home, protect the farm and minimize your exposure.  

Everything coming out of China is a lie.  Everything.  Remember, they are communists, they are totally incapable of telling the truth.  

Be prepared.


----------



## m1west

TiredRetired said:


> I'll say it again, folks.  Stock up on freeze dried foods and water.  Be in a position to stay at home, protect the farm and minimize your exposure.
> 
> Everything coming out of China is a lie.  Everything.  Remember, they are communists, they are totally incapable of telling the truth.
> 
> Be prepared.



Its looking a lot more possible that the Corona virus in China was released or escaped bio weapon. There are 2 recent stories that shed light.
1- Charles Liber a Havard University professor was arrested January 28th 2020 along with Zaosong Zheng for stealing and sending Biological weapons and information to China Liber was being paid $50,000.00 per month and Zheng along with another Chinese scientist that got away are active members of the Chinese communist party Military. Where did they come from ? The Wuhan military bioweapons facility.

2- In March 2019 a NML lab in Canada working with a corona virus with 2 Chinese  scientists. Found out that The Chinese scientists were sending the viruses to China. The virus they were working with is the same corona virus now killing people in china with one difference. The one in China has AIDS DNA inserted and that is the element that allowed human to human transmission. 

Is this a coincidence? Also China is being very secretive and allowing WHO into China but will not allow them into any of the hot spots. I am not very good with the technical things on line or I would post links to the reports but haven't figured that out yet. I haven't got my tin hat out yet but the information makes me think. Marty


----------



## Melensdad

Now 26 put under quarantine in [FONT=&]Westchester County[/FONT] New York.News article from 2/18/2020. 4 days after the "leak"

https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny-coronavirus-westchester-county-26-people-quaranti/ned-20200218-nv263r34czebpi6g3yqpy2xa7e-story.html


> *Westchester County quarantines 26 people who returned from China amid Coronavirus concerns*
> By Chelsia Rose Marcius and Leonard Greene
> New York Daily News |
> 
> Feb 18, 2020 | 6:35 PM
> 
> Twenty-six people were quarantined in Westchester County because they may have been exposed to coronavirus in mainland China, officials said Tuesday.
> 
> More than two dozen people have been quarantined in Westchester County because they’ve traveled to areas in mainland China affected by the coronavirus, officials said.
> 
> The 26 travelers have been confined to their homes, even though none have tested positive for the virus.
> 
> “These people are not ill, but we still have to monitor them,” County Health Commissioner Sherlita Amler said at a news conference Tuesday.
> 
> The quarantines are voluntary, Amler said. *None of those quarantined have any symptoms of the disease, though they may have been exposed to it*, she said.
> 
> Health officials are in “constant communication” with the quarantined people, Amler added.
> 
> Authorities declined to disclose the locations of the people being quarantined in Westchester, citing privacy concerns.
> 
> “There are two widespread concerns here," County Executive George Latimer added. “First is the spread of the virus, the second is the fear and the unnecessary panic that comes around stories (about the virus).”
> 
> Westchester’s Departments of Health, Emergency Services and Public Safety are taking steps to prepare for any situations involving the virus. Officials said it could take 14 days to develop symptoms from the time of exposure.
> 
> The reports come as *Chinese officials released data Tuesday indicating the new virus could be 20 times more lethal than the flu.*




Next question:  Did they get back to the US after the travel from China ban or before?

If before...why put them in quarantine now?

And now they are saying it is 20x more lethal than the seasonal flu?  The numbers widely reported had been that it was similar to the seasonal flu, many saying less lethal.  So why the bump in lethality now?



And for those of you who are counting,  we are now officially at over 2000 deaths, and over 75,000 infected.  You will notice that Japan is listed with 74 infected.  You may also note that there are 542 'others' on the list, these are the cruise ship passengers that were docked in Japan.  So the 'others' are not attributed to Japan.  And now some of them have been transported to the US and other nations.  Can we can expect that they will eventually be assigned to the nation that is hosting them after evacuation???


----------



## Melensdad

Washington Times reports surge in cases in Korea.  2 Japanese deaths related to the cruise ship.  Mayor of a major Korean city tells people to stay at home.  

https://www.washingtonpost.com/



> *
> 
> Coronavirus cases surge in South Korea as first death reported, mayor tells residents to stay indoors*
> 
> Authorities worldwide warned about the spread of the coronavirus beyond China on Thursday as Japan reported the first two deaths from the Diamond Princess cruise liner, South Korea reported its first fatality, and a major city there asked citizens to refrain from venturing outdoors.
> 
> A Japanese man and woman, both said to be in their 80s, were among more than 600 passengers who contracted the disease while on board the Diamond Princess. They left the ship last week and were hospitalized, but they died Thursday, Japanese public broadcaster NHK reported.
> 
> 
> 
> Updated February 19, 2020
> The latest: China tallied a total of 1,749 new infections and 136 deaths through the end of Tuesday, making the cumulative total 74,185 infections and 2,004 deaths.
> 
> How does the coronavirus make people sick, and why does it kill some of them? When people die of the coronavirus, it’s not just the virus that kills them — it’s their own immune system.
> 
> Mapping the spread of the new coronavirus: More than 25 countries have reported at least one case of coronavirus. Infections have been confirmed in France, India, Hong Kong, Japan, Nepal, Spain, Cambodia, Belgium, Singapore, Sweden, Egypt, the United Arab Emirates, Italy, Vietnam, Taiwan, Canada and Sri Lanka.
> 
> ...




ZeroHedge, linking to stories around the globe reports:  https://www.zerohedge.com/geopoliti...ernight-explosion-new-cases-suggests-outbreak



> In South Korea, the number of cases soared by almost two-thirds to 104 overnight, further emphasizing our observation that the number of cases ex-China has started to accelerate notably as the curve starts to resemble an exponential progression.
> 
> One WHO health expert told a Japanese TV station on Thursday that the virus is "a moving target" making it difficult to collect information and treat people: "Nobody has ever had to deal with this situation before, this is a new virus on a ship with 4,000 people, there are no guidelines for that." He added that he suspects there was a substantial amount of transmission before it arrived in Yokohama, adding that it was "not possible" to isolate everybody individually.
> 
> The WHO senior epidemiologist was responding to claims made by another expert in infectious disease that the Japanese had failed to observer proper quarantine protocols.
> 
> Back in Korea, the mayor of Daegu, a city of 2.5 million where 10 South Koreans contracted the disease from a church service, asked residents to stay indoors. Iran also reported two infected that then died.
> 
> Experts suspect that one woman in Daegu may have infected at least 40 others by going to her Christian church, according to Yonhap. The alleged 'superspreader' is the reason for the huge jump in new cases on Thursday. Experts say the city is now facing an "unprecedented crisis" following the spike in cases.



I’ve seen other stories saying the church ‘super spreader’ has infected 40 so far but posted the more conservative confirmed stories.  

Japan seems to have totally blown it by letting the cruise passengers out into the wild.  They should have removed them from the ship into isolation wards.  Instead they let them spread it and released them.


.................


UPDATED WITH ANOTHER ARTICLE.   Interesting what the US Military response to this was and how the base is handling it.

Full story at link : https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...us-outbreak-cases-soar-at-church-cult-cluster


> *
> 
> South Korean city on high alert as coronavirus cases soar at 'cult' church
> *
> A 61-year-old woman is believed to have infected dozens of worshippers at the Shincheonji Church of Jesus in Daegu, taking the national total to 82
> 
> The South Korean city of Daegu was facing an “unprecedented crisis” after coronavirus infections that centred on a controversial “cult” church surged to 38 cases, accounting for nearly half of the country’s total.
> 
> The city of 2.5 million people, which is two hours south of the capital Seoul, was turned into a ghost town after health officials said the bulk of country’s 31 new cases announced on Thursday were linked to a branch of the Shincheonji Church of Jesus.
> 
> “We are in an unprecedented crisis,” Daegu’s mayor, Kwon Young-jin, told reporters.
> 
> He ordered the shutdown of all kindergartens and public libraries, according to the news agency Yonhap. Schools in the city were considering postponing the beginning of the spring term scheduled for early March.
> 
> Shopping malls and movie theatres were empty and the usually busy city centre streets were quiet. A concert featuring BTS and other K-pop stars that was set for Daegu Stadium on 8 March has been postponed.
> *
> The defence ministry banned troops stationed in Daegu from leaving their barracks and receiving guests. The US military imposed similar restrictions on its army base in the city, which houses thousands of troops, family members and civilian employees, curbing travel and closing schools and child care centres.*
> 
> In what the Korean centre for disease control called a “super spreader” event, almost half of the country’s total of 82 infections have been linked to a 61-year-old woman who worships at the Daegu church, an entity often accused of being a cult.
> 
> She first developed a fever on 10 February but reportedly twice refused to be tested for the coronavirus on the grounds that she had not recently travelled abroad. She attended at least four services before being diagnosed.
> 
> So far, 37 other members of the church have been confirmed as infected....
> 
> Daegu’s municipal government said there were 1,001 Shincheonji members in the city, all of whom had been asked to self-quarantine, with 90 of them currently showing symptoms.
> 
> Those who have symptoms “will be tested as soon as possible”, Kwon Young-jin said, urging stronger action from the government in Seoul and calling the national response “inadequate”.
> 
> “We plan to test all believers of that church and have asked them to stay at home isolated from their families.”
> 
> The situation was “very grave”, South Korean vice health minister Kim Kang-lip said at a separate briefing.
> ​


----------



## Melensdad

ABC News reporting South Korea cases more than double overnight with more expected.  

So who still thinks this is contained?

Or under control?

Full story — https://abcnews.go.com/Internationa...id=clicksource_4380645_4_three_posts_card_hed


> *Coronavirus patient numbers double overnight in South Korea*
> Fifty-three new cases were confirmed.
> 
> SEOUL, South Korea -- Coronavirus cases more than doubled overnight in South Korea with most of the outbreak centered in and around the city of Daegu, the country’s fourth-largest city with 2.5 million people.
> 
> Fifty-three new cases were confirmed, spiking the total to 104 infected as of Thursday evening local time. The number of cases are expected to increase in the coming days.
> ...


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> ABC News reporting South Korea cases more than double overnight with more expected.
> 
> So who still thinks this is contained?
> 
> Or under control?
> 
> Full story — https://abcnews.go.com/Internationa...id=clicksource_4380645_4_three_posts_card_hed



Why is everyone told to stay home after all the flu is much worse right?


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> Now 26 put under quarantine in [FONT=&]Westchester County[/FONT] New York.News article from 2/18/2020. 4 days after the "leak"
> 
> https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny-coronavirus-westchester-county-26-people-quaranti/ned-20200218-nv263r34czebpi6g3yqpy2xa7e-story.html
> 
> 
> 
> Next question:  Did they get back to the US after the travel from China ban or before?
> 
> If before...why put them in quarantine now?
> 
> And now they are saying it is 20x more lethal than the seasonal flu?  The numbers widely reported had been that it was similar to the seasonal flu, many saying less lethal.  So why the bump in lethality now?
> 
> 
> 
> And for those of you who are counting,  we are now officially at over 2000 deaths, and over 75,000 infected.  You will notice that Japan is listed with 74 infected.  You may also note that there are 542 'others' on the list, these are the cruise ship passengers that were docked in Japan.  So the 'others' are not attributed to Japan.  And now some of them have been transported to the US and other nations.  Can we can expect that they will eventually be assigned to the nation that is hosting them after evacuation???



on this chart deaths VS recovered looks to be about 15%


----------



## Melensdad

Evidence that the virus is spreading more rapidly within other Asian countries outside mainland China has become impossible to ignore, which is probably why US futures are pointing to a lower open for a second straight day.

As Bloomberg reminds us, South Korea has seen its total cases soar past 200 as the number of infections doubled in 24 hours.

Lebanon, which has a collapsing infrastructure has confirmed its first case.  

Economists at Oxford University are reporting that $1.1 TRILLION could be wiped out of the world economy.  So we may see all sorts of related financial issues ahead, all the way down to small town main street. 




Several new medical/scientific articles published on The Lancet over the past few days.  Here are links to the most recent 2 (_below are just summaries, follow links for full information_) neither is particularly optimistic. 

*AFRICA:  Preparedness and Vulnerability of African countries*

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30411-6/fulltext

_*Findings*

Countries with the highest importation risk (ie, Egypt, Algeria, and South Africa) have moderate to high capacity to respond to outbreaks. Countries at moderate risk (ie, Nigeria, Ethiopia, Sudan, Angola, Tanzania, Ghana, and Kenya) have variable capacity and high vulnerability. We identified three clusters of countries that share the same exposure to the risk originating from the provinces of Guangdong, Fujian, and the city of Beijing, respectively.

*Interpretation*

Many countries in Africa are stepping up their preparedness to detect and cope with COVID-19 importations. Resources, intensified surveillance, and capacity building should be urgently prioritised in countries with moderate risk that might be ill-prepared to detect imported cases and to limit onward transmission._​





*OUTCOMES OF CRITICALLY ILL*

https://www.thelancet.com/pb-assets/Lancet/pdfs/S2213260020300795.pdf
_*Summary*
*Background* An ongoing outbreak of pneumonia associated with the severe acute respiratory coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) started in December, 2019, in Wuhan, China. Information about critically ill patients with SARS-CoV-2 infection is scarce. We aimed to describe the clinical course and outcomes of critically ill patients with SARS-CoV-2 pneumonia.

*Methods* In this single-centered, retrospective, observational study, we enrolled 52 critically ill adult patients with SARS-CoV-2 pneumonia who were admitted to the intensive care unit (ICU) of Wuhan Jin Yin-tan hospital (Wuhan, China) between late December, 2019, and Jan 26, 2020. Demographic data, symptoms, laboratory values, comorbidities, treatments, and clinical outcomes were all collected. Data were compared between survivors and non-survivors. The primary outcome was 28-day mortality, as of Feb 9, 2020. Secondary outcomes included incidence of SARS-CoV-2- related acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS) and the proportion of patients requiring mechanical ventilation.

*Findings* Of 710 patients with SARS-CoV-2 pneumonia, 52 critically ill adult patients were included. The mean age of the 52 patients was 59·7 (SD 13·3) years, 35 (67%) were men, 21 (40%) had chronic illness, 51 (98%) had fever. 32 (61·5%) patients had died at 28 days, and the median duration from admission to the intensive care unit (ICU) to death was 7 (IQR 3–11) days for non-survivors. Compared with survivors, non-survivors were older (64·6 years [11·2] vs 51·9 years [12·9]), more likely to develop ARDS (26 [81%] patients vs 9 [45%] patients), and more likely to receive mechanical ventilation (30 [94%] patients vs 7 [35%] patients), either invasively or non-invasively. Most patients had organ function damage, including 35 (67%) with ARDS, 15 (29%) with acute kidney injury, 12 (23%) with cardiac injury, 15 (29%) with liver dysfunction, and one (2%) with pneumothorax. 37 (71%) patients required mechanical ventilation. Hospital-acquired infection occurred in seven (13·5%) patients.

*Interpretation* The mortality of critically ill patients with SARS-CoV-2 pneumonia is considerable. The survival time of the non-survivors is likely to be within 1–2 weeks after ICU admission. Older patients (>65 years) with comorbidities and ARDS are at increased risk of death. The severity of SARS-CoV-2 pneumonia poses great strain on critical care resources in hospitals, especially if they are not adequately staffed or resourced._​


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> Evidence that the virus is spreading more rapidly within other Asian countries outside mainland China has become impossible to ignore, which is probably why US futures are pointing to a lower open for a second straight day.
> 
> As Bloomberg reminds us, South Korea has seen its total cases soar past 200 as the number of infections doubled in 24 hours.
> 
> Lebanon, which has a collapsing infrastructure has confirmed its first case.
> 
> Economists at Oxford University are reporting that $1.1 TRILLION could be wiped out of the world economy.  So we may see all sorts of related financial issues ahead, all the way down to small town main street.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Several new medical/scientific articles published on The Lancet over the past few days.  Here are links to the most recent 2 (_below are just summaries, follow links for full information_) neither is particularly optimistic.
> 
> *AFRICA:  Preparedness and Vulnerability of African countries*
> 
> https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30411-6/fulltext
> 
> _*Findings*
> 
> Countries with the highest importation risk (ie, Egypt, Algeria, and South Africa) have moderate to high capacity to respond to outbreaks. Countries at moderate risk (ie, Nigeria, Ethiopia, Sudan, Angola, Tanzania, Ghana, and Kenya) have variable capacity and high vulnerability. We identified three clusters of countries that share the same exposure to the risk originating from the provinces of Guangdong, Fujian, and the city of Beijing, respectively.
> 
> *Interpretation*
> 
> Many countries in Africa are stepping up their preparedness to detect and cope with COVID-19 importations. Resources, intensified surveillance, and capacity building should be urgently prioritised in countries with moderate risk that might be ill-prepared to detect imported cases and to limit onward transmission._​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *OUTCOMES OF CRITICALLY ILL*
> 
> https://www.thelancet.com/pb-assets/Lancet/pdfs/S2213260020300795.pdf
> _*Summary*
> *Background* An ongoing outbreak of pneumonia associated with the severe acute respiratory coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) started in December, 2019, in Wuhan, China. Information about critically ill patients with SARS-CoV-2 infection is scarce. We aimed to describe the clinical course and outcomes of critically ill patients with SARS-CoV-2 pneumonia.
> 
> *Methods* In this single-centered, retrospective, observational study, we enrolled 52 critically ill adult patients with SARS-CoV-2 pneumonia who were admitted to the intensive care unit (ICU) of Wuhan Jin Yin-tan hospital (Wuhan, China) between late December, 2019, and Jan 26, 2020. Demographic data, symptoms, laboratory values, comorbidities, treatments, and clinical outcomes were all collected. Data were compared between survivors and non-survivors. The primary outcome was 28-day mortality, as of Feb 9, 2020. Secondary outcomes included incidence of SARS-CoV-2- related acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS) and the proportion of patients requiring mechanical ventilation.
> 
> *Findings* Of 710 patients with SARS-CoV-2 pneumonia, 52 critically ill adult patients were included. The mean age of the 52 patients was 59·7 (SD 13·3) years, 35 (67%) were men, 21 (40%) had chronic illness, 51 (98%) had fever. 32 (61·5%) patients had died at 28 days, and the median duration from admission to the intensive care unit (ICU) to death was 7 (IQR 3–11) days for non-survivors. Compared with survivors, non-survivors were older (64·6 years [11·2] vs 51·9 years [12·9]), more likely to develop ARDS (26 [81%] patients vs 9 [45%] patients), and more likely to receive mechanical ventilation (30 [94%] patients vs 7 [35%] patients), either invasively or non-invasively. Most patients had organ function damage, including 35 (67%) with ARDS, 15 (29%) with acute kidney injury, 12 (23%) with cardiac injury, 15 (29%) with liver dysfunction, and one (2%) with pneumothorax. 37 (71%) patients required mechanical ventilation. Hospital-acquired infection occurred in seven (13·5%) patients.
> 
> *Interpretation* The mortality of critically ill patients with SARS-CoV-2 pneumonia is considerable. The survival time of the non-survivors is likely to be within 1–2 weeks after ICU admission. Older patients (>65 years) with comorbidities and ARDS are at increased risk of death. The severity of SARS-CoV-2 pneumonia poses great strain on critical care resources in hospitals, especially if they are not adequately staffed or resourced._​



So am I understanding correctly if you are one of the lucky ones that develop Pumonia you have a 61.5 % chance of death?


----------



## EastTexFrank

m1west said:


> So am I understanding correctly if you are one of the lucky ones that develop Pumonia you have a 61.5 % chance of death?



I had my old person's flu shot, 4x strength, and my pneumonia shot.  Hell, I'm bullet proof.


----------



## Melensdad

Northern Italy has cases popping up and has closed 10 towns, schools, churches, festivals, bars, etc.  

https://news.yahoo.com/10-italian-towns-lockdown-over-coronavirus-fears-220635548.html

Nothing to see here.  No need to fear.  It’s all under control.


----------



## Melensdad

Daily summary.  You’ll notice the number of American cases more than doubled.  Also that Hawaii is not testing suspected cases to confirm illness.  Italy reported its first death.  

The WHO is now saying the time to get this under control is dwindling.  As if it ever was under control?

China has been claiming the number of cases are decreasing ... but is building 19 new hospitals?   Hmmmm, wonder why!?!  Could they be liars about this whole thing?

Oh, and now the CDC is advertising on Facebook.  Nothing to worry about.  

Yup, economic shitstorm on its way.  Healthcare crisis likely too.  



https://www.zerohedge.com/geopoliti...night-alarming-prison-outbreak-reported-china



> Summary:
> 
> Italy reports 1st virus death, 15 additional cases, 10 cities on lockdown
> 
> 34 cases in USA.
> 
> China pledges to build 19 new hospitals in Wuhan
> 
> Hawaii hasn't tested any suspected cases in the state
> 
> 253 more passengers depart the diamond princess as 11 of 13 American evacuees in Nebraska test positive
> 
> Local authorities in China warn people will be punished for not returning to work if ordered
> 
> WHO's Tedros: Window for confronting virus rapidly closing
> 
> CDC says virus tremendous health threat, warns more human to human transmission of the virus in the US likely
> 
> First case declared in Lebanon
> 
> Iran confirms 9 more cases as virus reaches Tehran
> 
> South Korea reported massive jump in cases on Friday as total climbed to 204
> 
> Global Times insinuates that US might be covering up coronavirus cases
> 
> Health officials in Hubei 'apologize' for changing case confirmation 'criteria'


----------



## Melensdad

Here is a link to a short video charting the progress of Coronavirus as it compares to SARS, EBOLA, SWINE FLU and MERS.

Well worth watching, its less than 1 minute long =>  https://twitter.com/QTRResearch/status/1230977793854443526

By the way, experts are now suggesting the *14 day quarantine is not adequate* and a *27 day quarantine* may be far more appropriate as there are more and more confirmed cases of people spreading the disease without showing any symptoms.  

Researchers have also found the virus alive in human urine, which begs the question of it spreading through the sewer system.



And this from Bloomberg:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/me...80-99-health-experts-warned-about/ar-BB10geqf



> *The Coronavirus May Be ‘Disease X’ Health Experts Warned About*
> 
> (Bloomberg) -- The World Health Organization cautioned years ago that a mysterious “disease X” could spark an international contagion. The new coronavirus, with its ability to quickly morph from mild to deadly, is emerging as a contender.
> 
> From recent reports about the stealthy ways the so-called Covid-19 virus spreads and maims, a picture is emerging of an enigmatic pathogen whose effects are mainly mild, but which occasionally -- and unpredictably -- turns deadly in the second week. In less than three months, it’s infected almost 78,000 people, mostly in China, and killed more than 2,300. Emerging hot spots in South Korea, Iran and Italy have stoked further alarm.
> 
> “Whether it will be contained or not, this outbreak is rapidly becoming the first true pandemic challenge that fits the disease X category,” Marion Koopmans, head of viroscience at Erasmus University Medical Center in Rotterdam, and a member of the WHO’s emergency committee, wrote Wednesday in the journal Cell.
> 
> The disease has now spread to more than two dozen countries and territories. Some of those infected caught the virus in their local community and have no known link to China, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said.
> 
> “We are not seeing community spread here in the United States yet, but it’s very possible -- even likely -- that it may eventually happen,” Nancy Messonnier, director of the CDC’s National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases, told reporters Friday.
> 
> Unlike SARS, its viral cousin, the Covid-19 virus replicates at high concentrations in the nose and throat akin to the common cold, and appears capable of spreading from those who show no, or mild, symptoms. That makes it impossible to control using the fever-checking measures that helped stop SARS 17 years ago.
> 
> *Spreading Surreptitiously*
> 
> A cluster of cases within a family living in the Chinese city of Anyang is presumed to have begun when a 20-year-old woman carried the virus from Wuhan, the outbreak’s epicenter, on Jan. 10 and spread it while experiencing no illness, researchers said Friday in the Journal of the American Medical Association.
> 
> Five relatives subsequently developed fever and respiratory symptoms. Covid-19 is less deadly than SARS, which had a case fatality rate of 9.5%, but appears more contagious. Both viruses attack the respiratory and gastrointestinal tracts, via which they can potentially spread.
> 
> While more than 80% of patients are reported to have a mild version of the disease and will recover, about one in seven develops pneumonia, difficulty breathing and other severe symptoms. About 5% of patients have critical illness, including respiratory failure, septic shock and multi-organ failure.
> 
> “Unlike SARS, Covid-19 infection has a broader spectrum of severity ranging from asymptomatic to mildly symptomatic to severe illness that requires mechanical ventilation,” doctors in Singapore said in a paper in the same medical journal Thursday. “Clinical progression of the illness appears similar to SARS: patients developed pneumonia around the end of the first week to the beginning of the second week of illness.”
> 
> *Unpredictable Illness
> *
> Older adults, especially those with chronic conditions, such as hypertension and diabetes, have been found to have a higher risk of severe illness. Still, “the experience to date in Singapore is that patients without significant co-morbid conditions can also develop severe illness,” they said.
> 
> Li Wenliang, the 34-year-old ophthalmologist who was one of the first to warn about the coronavirus in Wuhan, died earlier this month after receiving antibodies, antivirals, antibiotics, oxygen and having his blood pumped through an artificial lung.
> 
> The doctor, who was in good health prior to his infection, appeared to have a relatively mild case until his lungs became inflamed, leading to the man’s death two days later, said Linfa Wang, who heads the emerging infectious disease program at Duke-National University of Singapore Medical School.
> 
> A similar pattern of inflammation noted among Covid-19 patients was observed in those who succumbed to the 1918 “Spanish flu” pandemic, said Gregory A. Poland, the Mary Lowell Leary emeritus professor of medicine, infectious diseases, and molecular pharmacology and experimental therapeutics at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota.
> 
> “Whenever, you have an infection, you have a battle going on,” Poland said in a phone interview Thursday. “And that battle is a battle between the damage that the virus is doing, and the damage the body can do when it tries to fight it off.”
> 
> *Mild Symptoms*
> 
> Doctors studying a 50-year-old man who died in China last month found Covid-19 gave him mild chills and dry cough at the start, enabling him to continue working. But on his ninth day of illness, he was hospitalized with fatigue and shortness of breath, and treated with a barrage of germ-fighting and immune system-modulating treatments.
> 
> He died five days later with lung damage reminiscent of SARS and MERS, another coronavirus-related outbreak, doctors at the Fifth Medical Center of PLA General Hospital in Beijing said in a Feb. 16 study in the Lancet medical journal. Blood tests showed an over-activation of a type of infection-fighting cell that accounted for part of the “severe immune injury” he sustained, the authors said.
> 
> Controversially, he had been given 80 milligrams twice daily of methylprednisolone, an immune-suppressing corticosteroid drug that’s in common use in China for severe cases, though has been linked to “prolonged viral shedding” in earlier studies of MERS, SARS and influenza, according to the WHO.
> 
> The patient’s doctors recommended corticosteroids be considered alongside ventilator support for severely ill patients to prevent a deadly complication known as acute respiratory distress syndrome.
> 
> He was given at least double what would typically be recommended for patients with the syndrome and other respiratory indications, said Reed Siemieniuk, a general internist and a health research methodologist at McMaster University in Hamilton, Ontario. Based on what was observed with MERS, the drug may delay viral clearance in Covid-19 patients, he said.
> 
> “Corticosteroids could cause more harm than good because of that risk,” Siemieniuk said in an interview. “I wouldn’t want to let a patient die without trying steroids, but I would wait until patients were extremely ill.”


----------



## Melensdad

And more bad news from Italy, Korea, Iran, Japan, etc.

Here is just small part of an AP News story:
https://apnews.com/783c7a396adf5f99b8cff399f9478e36


> *Health officials worry as untraceable virus clusters emerge*
> ...
> 
> “A number of spot fires, occurring around the world is a sign that things are ticking along, _and what we are going to have here is probably a pandemic,_” said Ian Mackay, who studies viruses at Australia’s University of Queensland.
> 
> That worst-case isn’t here yet, the WHO insists. It isn’t convinced that countries outside China need more draconian measures, but it pointed to spikes in cases in Iran and South Korea to warn that *time may be running out to contain the virus*.
> 
> “What we see is a very different phase of this outbreak depending where you look,” said WHO’s Dr. Sylvie Briand. _“We see different patterns of transmission in different places.”_
> 
> The World Health Organization defines a “global pandemic” as a disease spreading on two continents, though some public health experts would call an outbreak a pandemic if the spread is over a wide area or across many international borders.
> 
> The newest red flag:* Iran has reported 28 cases, including five deaths, in just days. The cluster began in the city of Qom, a popular religious destination, but it’s not clear how. Worse, infected travelers from Iran already have been discovered in Lebanon and Canada.*




And Italy seems to be in some sort of crisis management mode but is not actually quarantining people.  They lock down towns but then the police don't actually stop people from entering or leaving the towns that are under orders to quarantine.  Curious.  

https://apnews.com/bda63e372d4d0e5f393744e2cff6fdf1

> Italy cancels Venice carnival in bid to halt spread of virus
> 
> CODOGNO, Italy (AP) — Scrambling to contain rapidly rising number of new coronavirus infections in Italy, the largest amount outside Asia, authorities on Sunday stepped up measures to ban public gatherings, including stopping Venice’s famed carnival events, which has drawn tens of thousands of revelers to a region that is now in the heart of the outbreak.
> 
> “The ordinance is immediately operative and will go into effect at midnight,″ announced Veneto regional Gov. Luca Zaia, whose area includes Venice. Carnival, which draws tens of thousands of visitors to the lagoon city, would have run through Tuesday. Buses, trains and other forms of public transport — including boats in Venice — were being disinfected, Zaia told reporters.
> 
> Authorities said three people in Venice have tested positive for the COVID-19 virus, all of them in their late 80s and who are hospitalized in critical condition.
> 
> Nearly all of Italy’s 133 cases are clustered in the north, at least 25 of them in the Veneto region.
> 
> *Authorities expressed frustration they haven’t been able to track down the source of the virus spread in the north* . . . _“The health officials haven’t been yet able to pinpoint Patient Zero,″_ ...
> 
> At first, it was widely presumed that the man was infected by an Italian friend he dined with and who recently returned from his job, based in Shanghai. When the friend tested negative for the virus, attention turned to several Chinese who live in town and who frequent the same cafe visited by the stricken man. But Lombardy Gov. Attilio Fontana told reporters all of those Chinese have tested negative, too.
> 
> In Lombardy, with 90 cases, so far the hardest-hit region, schools and universities were ordered to stay closed in the coming days, and sporting events were canceled. Lombardy’s ban on public events also extended to Masses in churches ...
> 
> Museums, schools, universities and other public venues will be shut as well in Venice and the rest of Veneto. The shutdown is expected to last at least through March 1.
> 
> In Turin, the main city of the northern Piedmont region, three cases were diagnosed, and a family of three were being tested for possible contagion, authorities said. That region also announced closure of all schools and universities.
> 
> The biggest jump in cases of confirmed COVID-19 was reported by authorities in Lombardy, a populous region which includes the country’s financial capital, Milan. Nearly all the cases were in the countryside, mainly in Codogno and neighboring towns, where only grocery stores and pharmacies were apparently allowed to stay open.
> 
> People were urged to stay indoors in Lombardy and Veneto. *But while a lock-down of many small towns had been announced on Saturday, police at the entrance to Codogno, one of the hardest-hit towns, weren’t stopping cars entering or leaving . . .*  (remainder of story at the link above)




Mixed messages appear in Australia.

No need to worry ... pandemic is inevitable  

Again, just the first bits of a longer article.  For full story => https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fed...-s-chief-medical-officer-20200223-p543gf.html



> No need for face masks says Australia's chief medical officer, as Victoria braces for pandemic
> 
> 
> The nation's chief medical officer has told Australians there is no need for face masks and to go about their normal business only hours before Victoria's chief medical officer Doctor Brett Sutton said a coronavirus pandemic may be unavoidable.
> 
> *Dr Sutton took to Twitter on Sunday and in a six-part message said a surge in cases was "inevitable.*"
> 
> *"It's clear that with local transmission in several countries that a pandemic is very likely, if not inevitable. *We are working rapidly on planning and surge with our health sector," Dr Sutton said.





And then this story from TIME Magazine ...

https://time.com/5786657/tokyo-olympics-coronavirus-asia-china/



> *Could the 2020 Tokyo Olympics Be a Victim of COVID-19?*



I won't bother to quote bits of the story but you can go to the link.  It's a good bit of economic doom and gloom and general fear about the outbreak and how it is wreaking havoc on Asia along with projections of problems like cancelling or moving the 2020 Olympic games.



China continues with its counting games?


----------



## m1west

The Dow is down 1000 points today on corona virus fears. It is spreading rapidly in Italy with towns shutdown. I am confused, on one hand the powers at be say its not as bad as the seasonal flu but those same powers are shutting down towns and restricting travel. Which way is it?. I have never seen a response in my lifetime for the flu like this have you? Marty


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> The Dow is down 1000 points today on corona virus fears. It is spreading rapidly in Italy with towns shutdown. I am confused, on one hand the powers at be say its not as bad as the seasonal flu but those same powers are shutting down towns and restricting travel. Which way is it?. *I have never seen a response in my lifetime for the flu like this have you? *Marty



I think there is a DON'T PANIC message being sent.

But at the same time the health officials seem to clearly indicate that they are expecting a pandemic that will be bad.  They clearly have indicated in many articles that the world is not equipped to deal with this.

2 cases are being reported in Canada... related to travel to Iran.

And ZeroHedge.com noted this:


> We're noting some new info from the CDC about the latest cases diagnosed in the US. Of the 14 non-Diamond Princess-related cases cited earlier, two of them are new: One is in Humboldt County, and the other in Sacramento County, both in California, per the Guardian.
> 
> The CDC added that it's preparing for outbreaks that could warrant* the closure of schools and universities in the US*.




Meanwhile in other news, Italian newspapers are indicating that 1/2 of Italy is under quarantine.  That is an exaggeration, but it is the headlines in Italy.  Clearly they are closing down some towns and have cancelled some major events.  Even reports that now funerals in some areas of Italy are only open to immediate family.  Searching for Patient Zero in Italy seems futile and a waste of time.  

China is now reporting infections only growing by a couple hundred per day, has informed workers in some areas they must return to work and that if they get sick they are essentially on their own.

Korea has become a hotspot.  

Iran has become a hotspot with credible (non-government) reports of 50 dead in a very short time span.

Here in the US it seems that most of our cases are in isolation and 39 of the roughly 52 are related to the cruise ship that was evacuated.  


In Korea the US armed forces released this today:


> USFK Individual Confirmed with COVID-19
> By USFK Public Affairs | Feb. 24, 2020
> 
> https://www.usfk.mil/Media/News/Article/2091383/usfk-individual-confirmed-with-covid-19/
> 
> CAMP HUMPHREYS, PYEONGTAEK, Republic of Korea — —
> 
> South Korea’s Centers for Disease Control and Prevention informed United States Forces Korea today that a USFK dependent living in Daegu tested positive for COVID-19, making this the first time a USFK-related individual has tested positive for the virus.
> 
> USFK has raised the risk level to “high” for USFK peninsula-wide as a prudent measure to protect the force.
> 
> The patient, a 61-year old female, visited Camp Walker’s Post Exchange on Feb. 12 and 15, and KCDC and USFK health professionals are actively conducting contact tracing to determine whether any others may have been exposed.


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> I think there is a DON'T PANIC message being sent.
> 
> But at the same time the health officials seem to clearly indicate that they are expecting a pandemic that will be bad.  They clearly have indicated in many articles that the world is not equipped to deal with this.
> 
> Italian newspapers are indicating that 1/2 of Italy is under quarantine.  That is an exaggeration, but it is the headlines in Italy.  Clearly they are closing down some towns and have cancelled some major events.  Even reports that now funerals in some areas of Italy are only open to immediate family.  Searching for Patient Zero in Italy seems futile and a waste of time.
> 
> China is now reporting infections only growing by a couple hundred per day, has informed workers in some areas they must return to work and that if they get sick they are essentially on their own.
> 
> Korea has become a hotspot.
> 
> Iran has become a hotspot with credible (non-government) reports of 50 dead in a very short time span.
> 
> Here in the US it seems that most of our cases are in isolation and 39 of the roughly 52 are related to the cruise ship that was evacuated.
> 
> 
> In Korea the US armed forces released this today:
> ​



I still do not have a clear understanding of why it attacks some people regardless of age or immune condition with mild or no symptoms and someone else much younger and healthier with the acute pneumonia symptoms of which half die. It seems as if it is genetic??


----------



## Melensdad

I think that is one of several major questions that are in need of answers.


----------



## Melensdad

Maybe we should all just plan to get the Corona virus?

From THE ATLANTIC ... a prominent Harvard epidemiologist says there is little chance of it being contained and that up to 70% of the world's population will get it.  And it seems to affect people over 60 years old the hardest.  And people with underlying illnesses like diabetes and other issues are also included in the hardest hit category.  Perhaps the healthy under 50 crowd has little to be worried about, but the 60+ and especially the 60+ with complications probably should be concerned.

This is just part of a very long story.  I would encourage you to read the whole article.  LINK => https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/02/covid-vaccine/607000/




> *You’re Likely to Get the Coronavirus*
> Most cases are not life-threatening, which is also what makes the virus a historic challenge to contain.
> 
> ...The new coronavirus (known technically as SARS-CoV-2) that has been spreading around the world can cause a respiratory illness that can be severe. The disease (known as COVID-19) seems to have a fatality rate of less than 2 percent—exponentially lower than most outbreaks that make global news. The virus has raised alarm not despite that low fatality rate, but because of it.
> 
> Coronaviruses are similar to influenza viruses in that they are both single strands of RNA. Four coronaviruses commonly infect humans, causing colds. These are believed to have evolved in humans to maximize their own spread—which means sickening, but not killing, people. By contrast, the two prior novel coronavirus outbreaks—SARS (severe acute respiratory syndrome) and MERS (Middle East respiratory syndrome, named for where the first outbreak occurred)—were picked up from animals, as was H5N1. These diseases were highly fatal to humans. If there were mild or asymptomatic cases, they were extremely few. Had there been more of them, the disease would have spread widely. Ultimately, SARS and MERS each killed fewer than 1,000 people.
> 
> COVID-19 is already reported to have killed more than twice that number. With its potent mix of characteristics, this virus is unlike most that capture popular attention: It is deadly, but not too deadly. It makes people sick, but not in predictable, uniquely identifiable ways. Last week, 14 Americans tested positive on a cruise ship in Japan despite feeling fine—the new virus may be most dangerous because, it seems, it may sometimes cause no symptoms at all.
> 
> The world has responded with unprecedented speed and mobilization of resources. The new virus was identified extremely quickly.
> ... And yet the outbreak continues to spread.
> 
> The Harvard epidemiology professor Marc Lipsitch is exacting in his diction, even for an epidemiologist. Twice in our conversation he started to say something, then paused and said, “Actually, let me start again.” So it’s striking when one of the points he wanted to get exactly right was this:_* “I think the likely outcome is that it will ultimately not be containable.”*_
> 
> *Containment is the first step in responding to any outbreak.* In the case of COVID-19, the possibility (however implausible) of preventing a pandemic seemed to play out in a matter of days. Starting in January, China began cordoning off progressively larger areas, radiating outward from Wuhan City and eventually encapsulating some 100 million people. People were barred from leaving home, and lectured by drones if they were caught outside. *Nonetheless, the virus has now been found in 24 countries.*
> 
> Despite the apparent ineffectiveness of such measures—relative to their inordinate social and economic cost... Testing people who are already extremely sick is an imperfect strategy if people can spread the virus without even feeling bad enough to stay home from work.
> 
> Lipsitch predicts that, within the coming year,* some 40 to 70 percent of people around the world will be infected with the virus* that causes COVID-19. But, he clarifies emphatically, this does not mean that all will have severe illnesses. *“It’s likely that many will have mild disease, or may be asymptomatic,”* he said. As with influenza, which is often life-threatening to people with chronic health conditions and of older age, most cases pass without medical care. (Overall, around 14 percent of people with influenza have no symptoms.)
> 
> Lipsitch is far from alone in his belief that this virus will continue to spread widely. The emerging consensus among epidemiologists is that the most likely outcome of this outbreak is a new seasonal disease—a fifth “endemic” coronavirus. With the other four, people are not known to develop long-lasting immunity. *If this one follows suit, and if the disease continues to be as severe as it is now, “cold and flu season” could become “cold and flu and COVID-19 season.”*
> 
> At this point, it is not even known how many people are infected._ As of Sunday, there have been 35 confirmed cases in the U.S., according to the World Health Organization. But Lipsitch’s “very, very rough” estimate when we spoke a week ago (banking on “multiple assumptions piled on top of each other,” he said) was that 100 or 200 people in the U.S. were infected. _That’s all it would take to seed the disease widely. The rate of spread would depend on how contagious the disease is in milder cases. On Friday, Chinese scientists reported in the medical journal JAMA an apparent case of asymptomatic spread of the virus, from a patient with a normal chest CT scan. The researchers concluded with stolid understatement that if this finding is not a bizarre abnormality, “the prevention of COVID-19 infection would prove challenging.”
> 
> Even if Lipsitch’s estimates were off by orders of magnitude, they wouldn’t likely change the overall prognosis. “Two hundred cases of a flu-like illness during flu season—when you’re not testing for it—is very hard to detect,” Lipsitch said. “But it would be really good to know sooner rather than later whether that’s correct, or whether we’ve miscalculated something. The only way to do that is by testing.”
> 
> Originally, doctors in the U.S. were advised not to test people unless they had been to China or had contact with someone who had been diagnosed with the disease. Within the past two weeks, the CDC said it would start screening people in five U.S. cities, in an effort to give some idea of how many cases are actually out there. But tests are still not widely available. *As of Friday, the Association of Public Health Laboratories said that only California, Nebraska, and Illinois had the capacity to test people for the virus.*
> 
> With so little data, prognosis is difficult. But the concern that this virus is beyond containment—that it will be with us indefinitely—is nowhere more apparent than in the global race to find a vaccine, one of the clearest strategies for saving lives in the years to come....​


See the link for the beginning and the remainder of this story.​


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> Maybe we should all just plan to get the Corona virus?
> 
> From THE ATLANTIC ... a prominent Harvard epidemiologist says there is little chance of it being contained and that up to 70% of the world's population will get it.  And it seems to affect people over 60 years old the hardest.  And people with underlying illnesses like diabetes and other issues are also included in the hardest hit category.  Perhaps the healthy under 50 crowd has little to be worried about, but the 60+ and especially the 60+ with complications probably should be concerned.
> 
> This is just part of a very long story.  I would encourage you to read the whole article.  LINK => https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/02/covid-vaccine/607000/
> 
> 
> See the link for the beginning and the remainder of this story.​



The under 50 crowd should have nothing to worry about. Then why are 80 year olds asympamatic and 34 year old doctors dead?


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> The under 50 crowd should have nothing to worry about. Then why are 80 year olds asympamatic and 34 year old doctors dead?



Statistically the over 60 and the sick categories have the most to worry about.  The under 50 and health crowd have very little to worry about.  But there will always be exceptions.


----------



## pixie

That should solve the Social Security shorfall problem.

Here and in China.

I am over 60.


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> Statistically the over 60 and the sick categories have the most to worry about.  The under 50 and health crowd have very little to worry about.  But there will always be exceptions.



I would like to see a spread sheet with ages, race, pre existing conditions if any and gender showing recovered and fatalities  on this particular virus as it has proven itself not to be typical. I got that the older you are or existing conditions will lower your immune system. I am  not convinced at this time that developing the pneumonia is linked to the immune system. It may be going after a genetic marker in your DNA.


----------



## mla2ofus

It will be sad if this kills at least as many as the spanish flu did 100 yrs ago with all the medical advances we've had in the last 100 yrs. Is this the "superbug" no antibiotic can kill?? I'm not crying wolf, just pointing out possible outcomes.
Mike


----------



## Melensdad

As always, go to the link for the full story but here are some bad and good headlines for the day:

*Iranian Health Minister apparently tests positive for Corona.*

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopoliti...cted-coronavirus-seen-looking-feverish-during


> ... the 'official' number of confirmed coronavirus cases in Iran had climbed to 14, and that one of the newly diagnosed patients was an Iranian Deputy Health Minister named Iraj Harirchi, who announced in a video on Tuesday that he would "certainly defeat corona"...
> 
> Well, new footage has surfaced allegedly from a press conference in Tehran held before Harirchi's diagnosis. In the video, he can be seen looking extremely unwell, repeatedly wiping his brow with what appear to be tissues...






*WSJ:  Drugmaker Moderna Delivers 1st Experimental Vaccine*

https://www.wsj.com/articles/drugma...navirus-vaccine-for-human-testing-11582579099


> Drugmaker Moderna Inc. has shipped the first batch of its rapidly developed coronavirus vaccine to U.S. government researchers, who will launch the first human tests of whether the experimental shot could help suppress the epidemic originating in China.
> 
> Moderna on Monday sent vaccine vials from its Norwich, Mass., manufacturing plant to the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases in Bethesda, Md., the company said ...






*Europe Questions Italy's Ability To Contain Outbreak After Hospital Helped Spread Virus*

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopoliti...-commits-suicide-cases-near-1000-live-updates


> Bahrain has banned its citizens from traveling to Iran as it reports 9 new cases of coronavirus, raising the total cases in the tiny island kingdom to 17 in the span of 24 hours.
> 
> * * *
> 
> Update (0800ET): With his reputation under fire and his popularity slipping, PM Giuseppe Conte said Tuesday that he's confident that the measures his government has put in place will contain the contagion in the coming days.
> 
> This comes after _*the PM admitted that a hospital in Lombardy inadvertently helped spread the virus *_by not adhering to certain health-care protocols. The PM has blamed the hospital for the outbreak in the north, raising questions about whether "the European nation is capable of containing the outbreak," according to CNN. To put things in perspective, Italy now has 3x the number of cases in Hong Kong.
> "That certainly contributed to the spread," Conte said, without naming the institution concerned. The infection has been centered around the town of Codogno, around 35 miles south of Milan.
> 
> "Obviously we cannot predict the progress of the virus. It is clear that there has been an outbreak and it has spread from there," Conte told reporters, referring to the hospital.​






*BLOOMBERG NEWS:  How Fast Can a Virus Destroy a Supply Chain?*
Just-in-time networks are very efficient but extremely fragile.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/a...collapse-of-global-supply-chains?srnd=opinion


> The global supply chain, already under pressure from President Donald Trump’s trade war, now faces further strain from the coronavirus. And while cross-national supply chains are more robust than they may appear, if they fail they will do so suddenly and without much warning.
> 
> Consider the supply chain of the Apple iPhone, which stretches across dozens of companies and several continents. Such complex cross-national supply chains generate relatively high profits, giving them a kind of immunity to small disruptions. If there is an unexpected tax, tariff or exchange movement, the supply chain can generally swallow the costs and move on. Profits will be lower within the supply chain, but production will continue, as it is too lucrative to simply shut everything down.
> 
> Do not be deceived, however: Supply chains are not indestructible. If the new costs or risks are high enough, the entire structure will be dismantled. By their nature, supply chains do not fall apart slowly, because each part of the chain relies upon other parts to add its value. It does not help much to have the circuit components of the iPhone lined up, for instance, if you cannot also produce the glass screens. In this way, these supply chains are less robust under extreme conditions.
> 
> Global supply chains have yet to come apart mostly because trade and prosperity generally have been rising. But now, for the first time since World War II, the global economy faces the possibility of a true decoupling of many trade connections. . .


----------



## Melensdad

Anyone starting to get a little concerned now?   If so then you are in the minority.  The vast majority of Americans think this is nothing.  Assume the gubmint will handle it.  May not even be aware it is happening at all, or simply just don't care because its all happening so far away that they think it will never get here.  

The CDC is planning for a pandemic.  Health officials are saying it will be a pandemic.  

Close the schools & universities and do teaching over the computer.  Here in my school district we call it e-Learning.  The teachers + students are in their respective homes, on-line on their computers.  Assignments and given out and graded on-line.  Teachers must be reachable by phone and/or email and be on-line during the school day times.  I believe the students must log in-log off in some system that tracks their work too.

Supply chain interruptions look likely.  The stock market is spooked.  Drug companies and medical equipment makers that source parts, ingredients, and components from China are all in panic mode.  Apparently a very large % of our antibiotics come out of China/Asia.

*Coronavirus live updates: US confirms 53 cases, CDC outlines pandemic planning*

*CNBC News is reporting => * https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/25/coronavirus-latest-updates.html


> Coronavirus live updates: US confirms 53 cases, CDC outlines pandemic planning
> 
> This is a live blog. Please check back for updates.
> 
> *All times below are in Eastern time.
> 
> Total confirmed cases: More than 80,200
> Total deaths: At least 2,704*
> 
> 3:52 pm: US health officials say human trials on coronavirus vaccine to start in 6 weeks
> 
> Human trials testing a potential vaccine for the COVID-19 coronavirus are expected to begin in six weeks, U.S. health officials announced Tuesday. “We are on time at least and maybe even a little bit better,” Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, an agency within the Department of Health and Human Services, told reporters at a press conference. “Hopefully, no further glitches.” The White House reportedly asked Congress on Monday for $1.25 billion in additional funding to bolster its coronavirus response, including money to develop a vaccine and therapeutics to treat the virus. The National Institutes of Health has been working with biotech company Moderna to develop a vaccine using the current strain of the coronavirus.
> 
> 3:49 pm: US health officials say coronavirus will likely cause a global pandemic
> 
> The coronavirus outbreak that’s shuttered commerce across China will likely become a global pandemic, a top U.S. health official said, adding that it’s just a matter of time before the outbreak starts spreading in the U.S. “Current global circumstances suggest it’s likely this virus will cause a pandemic,” Anne Schuchat, principal deputy director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention told reporters at a news briefing. “It’s not so much a question of if this will happen any more, but rather more a question of when this will happen and how many people in this country will become infected and how many of those will develop severe or more complicated disease,” she added. Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar added: “We can’t hermetically seal off the United States.”
> 
> 3:46 pm: FDA says it’s monitoring the market for potential drug shortages, fraudulent treatment claims
> 
> The U.S. Food and Drug Administration is monitoring for potential drug shortages and fraudulent treatment claims as the coronavirus outbreak places a pause on its product inspections in China. The FDA has identified about 20 drug products that either solely source their active ingredients or produce finished drug products in China and has contacted their manufacturers to see if they have experienced any supply issues, FDA spokesperson Stephanie Caccomo said in a statement. “None of these firms has reported any shortage to date,” Caccomo said. “We will continue to remain in contact with the manufacturers so that we can best help mitigate any potential issues in the future.” Since Jan. 24, the FDA has also reached out to over 180 manufacturers to remind them of their requirement to notify the FDA of any anticipated supply disruptions, Caccomo said. —Higgins-Dunn
> 
> 2:50 pm: CDC hopes the coronavirus outbreak is seasonal like the flu and subsides in the summer
> 
> The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said there is a hypothesis among mathematical modelers that the coronavirus outbreak “could potentially be seasonal” and relent in warmer conditions. “Other viral respiratory diseases are seasonal, including influenza and therefore in many viral respiratory diseases we do see a decrease in disease in spring and summer,” Dr. Nancy Messonnier, director of the CDC’s National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases, said on a conference call Tuesday. “And so we can certainly be optimistic that this disease will follow suit.” –Feuer
> 
> 2:25 pm: Kudlow tries to assuage coronavirus concerns and impact on US economy
> 
> National Economic Council Director Larry Kudlow tried to assuage concerns over the cornavirus and its impact on the U.S. economy, saying officials “have contained this.” The comments came hours after the CDC said the COVID-19 coronavirus is “likely” to continue to spread throughout the United States and the American public should “prepare for the expectation that this is going to be bad.” –Lovelace
> 
> 1:49 pm: Coronavirus outbreak could force cancellation of 2020 Tokyo Games, IOC member says
> 
> A senior member of the International Olympic Committee said that if it proves too dangerous to hold the Olympics in Tokyo this summer because of the coronavirus outbreak, organizers are more likely to cancel it altogether than to postpone or move it. Dick Pound, a former Canadian swimming champion who has been on the IOC since 1978, making him its longest-serving member, estimated there is a three-month window — perhaps a two-month one — to decide the fate of the Tokyo Olympics, meaning a decision could be put off until late May. —Associated Press
> 
> 1:24 pm: Eleventh death in coronavirus outbreak in northern Italy
> 
> A 76-year-old woman died in the northern Italian city of Treviso, the Veneto region said, the eleventh victim of the worst coronavirus outbreak in Europe. Italy is struggling against the contagion with its epicenter in the wealthy regions of Lombardy and Veneto. The number of confirmed cases rose to 322 from 229 on Monday, the vast majority of them in the north of the country. —Reuters
> 
> 1:09 pm: Economic fallout from coronavirus appears ‘much worse’ than SARS
> 
> The economic drag from the new coronavirus will turn out to be larger than SARS, according to Gene Seroka, executive director of the Port of Los Angeles. Seroka was working in Shanghai during the 2002-2003 SARS outbreak. “At that time, we were all grounded,” he told CNBC’s “Squawk Box” on Tuesday. “This appears to be much worse because of the number of folks who were infected and the lack of productivity.” While estimates vary, economists believe SARS cost the global economy about $40 billion. — Belvedere
> 
> 12:54 pm: Romania confirms first case as Italy reports more deaths
> 
> Romania confirmed its first case — a man who returned three weeks ago from Italy, television station Realitatea Plus said, quoting medical sector sources. In Italy, three more people infected with the coronavirus have died, bringing the death toll there to 10, the chief of the Civil Protection agency said. The number of cases in Italy more than doubled in the last day, topping 322 as of Tuesday morning, according to Italian health officials. The contagion was particularly strong in the northern regions of Lombardy and Veneto, the country’s industrial and financial heartland. Italy’s neighboring countries have committed not to close their borders, Health Minister Roberto Speranza said, as Rome’s government struggles to contain the biggest coronavirus outbreak in Europe. —Reuters with CNBC
> 
> 12:34 pm: US health secretary Azar says more cases likely, seeks more funding
> 
> U.S. Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar said there will likely be more cases of coronavirus in the United States as he asked a Senate subcommittee to approve $2.5 billion in funding to fight the outbreak after proposing cuts to the department’s budget. Azar said the funding would help the U.S. expand surveillance systems for the fast-spreading virus, support state and local governments, help development of vaccines and therapies and expand stockpiles of protective equipment like surgical masks. He said the U.S. currently has a stockpile of 30 million surgical masks, but HHS estimates suggest the country needs 300 million masks. —Reuters
> 
> 12:01 pm: CDC outlines what closing schools, businesses would look like in US pandemic
> 
> The CDC outlined what schools and businesses will likely need to do if the COVID-19 virus becomes an epidemic outbreak in the U.S. Schools should consider dividing students into smaller groups or close and use “internet-based tele-schooling,” Dr. Nancy Messonnier, director of the CDC’s National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases, told reporters on a conference call. “For adults, businesses can replace in-person meetings with video or telephone conferences and increase teleworking options,” Messonnier said. She said local communities and cities may need to “modify, postpone or cancel mass gatherings.” Hospitals may need to triage patients differently, add more tele-health services and delay elective surgery, she said. “We are asking the American public to work with us to prepare for the expectation that this is going to be bad,” she said. —Lovelace, Feuer
> 
> 11:37 am: Bahrain reports 6 new cases of coronavirus coming from Iran
> 
> Bahrain has identified six more new cases of coronavirus all coming from Iran, taking the total number in the Gulf kingdom to 23, the state news agency BNA reported, citing the health ministry.In a precautionary measure to limit the spread of the virus, the education ministry said all public and private schools, including kindergartens, would be closed for two weeks from Wednesday, BNA added.



As with my other posts, there is much more at the link, I simply posted up the more important information.  Follow the link to get the videos, photos and the rest of the story.


----------



## road squawker

Once it gets into South America, it will storm across the Southern border.


----------



## EastTexFrank

It is getting interesting, isn't it?

It is looking like it could possibly become a pandemic.  The next question is, "If it does, what next?".  Self isolation?  For how long?  The Spanish flu at its height lasted about a year in the US.  In some parts of the world it rattled around and mutated for almost 10 years.  So, how long are you willing to stay isolated and cut off from the rest of humanity?  

Canceling classes at schools and universities, banning sports events and any activity that draws a crowd are all short term solutions.  You can't possibly keep that up for any length of time.  We all need to go to the grocery store … as long as there is anything to buy on the shelves.  To be honest, I have no idea where this thing is going to end up.  

Like some others on this board, I live out in the country and as such I am prepared to handle power outages and other inconveniences for days or a few weeks but for month after month after month, I don't think so.  Besides, I don't know if I'd want to do that anyway.  It is certainly interesting times that we are living in.


----------



## m1west

EastTexFrank said:


> It is getting interesting, isn't it?
> 
> It is looking like it could possibly become a pandemic.  The next question is, "If it does, what next?".  Self isolation?  For how long?  The Spanish flu at its height lasted about a year in the US.  In some parts of the world it rattled around and mutated for almost 10 years.  So, how long are you willing to stay isolated and cut off from the rest of humanity?
> 
> Canceling classes at schools and universities, banning sports events and any activity that draws a crowd are all short term solutions.  You can't possibly keep that up for any length of time.  We all need to go to the grocery store … as long as there is anything to buy on the shelves.  To be honest, I have no idea where this thing is going to end up.
> 
> Like some others on this board, I live out in the country and as such I am prepared to handle power outages and other inconveniences for days or a few weeks but for month after month after month, I don't think so.  Besides, I don't know if I'd want to do that anyway.  It is certainly interesting times that we are living in.



From the first reports I felt like this one was different due to the response, If China and WHO came out with we have another one to add to the seasonal cold and flu season with around a 2% mortality rate gave some suggestions like wash your hands everyone would probably taken it in stride. But NO instead China is hiding information ( nothing to see here ) while locking down millions of people. It is now spreading around the world and reports of people dropping like flies coming out of China.  other countries are reacting the same way Lockdown. I just wish someone would hold a credible news conference and lay out the truth in laymen terms exactly what we are dealing with. If its nothing just say that and act like that. If its deadly then say that too. I think what is driving the fear is people just don't know what to think due to the conflicting reports. Marty


----------



## road squawker

I'm starting to hear (from multiple sources), that this might be a man made virus.....

Lemme go get my camo thongs ready


----------



## Melensdad

EastTexFrank said:


> It is getting interesting, isn't it?
> ...
> Like some others on this board, I live out in the country and as such I am prepared to handle power outages and other inconveniences for days or a few weeks *but for month after month after month, I don't think so.*  Besides, I don't know if I'd want to do that anyway.  It is certainly interesting times that we are living in.


I've built up food and supplies, could probably last a couple months in isolation but it wouldn't be a lot of fun toward the end of that 60 days.  Going stir crazy would set in pretty quickly.  Still, how long.  Even if I bought a years worth of food & toilet paper would I want to do that?  






m1west said:


> ... I just wish someone would* hold a credible news conference* and lay out the truth in laymen terms exactly what we are dealing with....



Do they even know?  With China hiding the truth, and with too little experience in other parts of the world do scientists really understand?  

Its great news we are seeing some vaccine tests coming quickly.  But there is also a lot of potentially bad news coming out too.  What do we know?  How bad is it?  I don't think anyone knows.






road squawker said:


> I'm starting to hear (from multiple sources), that this might be a *man made virus*.....


Those reports have been circulating since the beginning.  There seems to be some credible evidence it could be true.  Whether it is or not, it is out on the loose and not contained.  Man made or not we have to deal with it.





road squawker said:


> *Once it gets into South America*, it will storm across the Southern border.


https://www.zerohedge.com/geopoliti...-commits-suicide-cases-near-1000-live-updates
*Update (1900ET)*: We've got some (potentially) big news. *Brazil's Health Ministry said a man has tested positive for the coronavirus on in initial test.* If it's confirmed in a second test, it will be the first case in South America.​


----------



## EastTexFrank

Melensdad said:


> I've built up food and supplies, could probably last a couple months in isolation but it wouldn't be a lot of fun toward the end of that 60 days.  Going stir crazy would set in pretty quickly.  Still, how long.  Even if I bought a years worth of food & toilet paper would I want to do that?



That's my point.  My wife and I are 72-years old.  We don't eat as much as we used to.  We can probably last about 3 months in isolation but I doubt that I could keep my wife home all that time.  She has so many commitments around town that she isn't going to spend 3 months locked up here with me.  And then there are the "friends" from Dallas who want to come stay with us but bring nothing to augment our supplies.  I can think of 4 or 6 of those without trying very hard.  

Bob, I'm like you.  I can easily afford to go to Walmart and load up on supplies to last out the year for 2, 4 or 6 people but is that really what I want to do?


----------



## m1west

it is in Brazil now, it will be at the southern border soon.


----------



## tiredretired

I too have been preparing, but trying hard to temper what the fake news is saying with a dose of reality.   

As of Feb 4, 2019, 19 Million people in the US have contracted the flu and 10K have died and that is WITH as vaccine!!!!  I dunno.  I just do NOT trust the media to report the truth or our government to tell us the truth.  So, I have no idea just what in hell the truth is.


----------



## pirate_girl




----------



## EastTexFrank

I'm with TR.  This could be the media's latest "the sky is falling" scenario.  There is so much information out there and a lot of it is contradictory.  I really don't know what to think.  

When you do think about it, at it's worst, it's going to be as if you are under house arrest.  At least initially, you will have power, water and utilities.  If you have food there will be no real hardship involved, inconvenience perhaps, but no real hardship.  The problems will begin when services start to fail … if they do, and when the food starts to run out.


----------



## m1west

EastTexFrank said:


> I'm with TR.  This could be the media's latest "the sky is falling" scenario.  There is so much information out there and a lot of it is contradictory.  I really don't know what to think.
> 
> When you do think about it, at it's worst, it's going to be as if you are under house arrest.  At least initially, you will have power, water and utilities.  If you have food there will be no real hardship involved, inconvenience perhaps, but no real hardship.  The problems will begin when services start to fail … if they do, and when the food starts to run out.



I think am with Melensdad, We are getting conflicting information because the powers at be don't know themselves. China is not cooperating, withholding information and spreading disinformation. Us and the whole world are where China was 2 months ago and now have to figure it out ourselves. I hope People here in the US and the world have learned something about partnering with a communist country and being reliant on their products for necessary day to day life. If it turns out to be mild it may be the blessing in disguise that un masks who China really is to the non believers. Marty


----------



## mla2ofus

Cryin' chuck schumer is certainly working hard to weaponize it against Trump and of course nervous nancy had to throw in her 2 cents.
Mike


----------



## m1west

Add this one. Maybe we can create a spread sheet on reports into categories ranging from nothing to your going to die. Its ridiculous that these reports are all over the place.


----------



## Melensdad

There is a lot of conflicting data.

I see a lot of people who try to downplay this by comparing it to the seasonal flu and other diseases.  I don't think that is useful because the CDC and the WHO are saying that this is not responding like a typical seasonal flu so why do people try to downplay it by comparing it something that the scientists do not compare it to?  I'm not being alarmist, I'm just providing the data that I find.  The WHO is comparing this to SARS and EBOLA not to the flu.  The CDC is saying it is far more dangerous than the seasonal flu because of how it acts, and because so many may only get mild cases they may spread it to people who are very susceptible to getting complications.  The CDC and WHO are also puzzled as to why some people only get mild symptoms and others quickly die from complications.

From the early onset I was skeptical of the Chinese claims, if anything there is far more reason to believe the Chinese are bigger liars than anyone had ever guessed.

I just provide the headlines, the links and the highlights.  Figure out for yourself what you need to do.  

I have a distant family member who worked at the CDC for over 2 decades, he is now a consultant to the CDC and living outside of Atlanta (_in the woods on a mountain with supplies_).  He says the US has a lot to worry about with this particular pandemic.

This from the English language Chinese newspaper EPOCH TIMES, via the English news company DailyMail:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...eport-claims.html?ito=email_share_article-top


[*]*Coronavirus outbreak is 52 TIMES worse in one Chinese province than officials admit as local authorities seek to hide the true number of people infected, report claims*
[*]Daily figure in Shandong has been up to 52 times the official toll, it is said
[*]Shocking finding was revealed to a US-based newspaper by local officials
[*]Comes after a worrying outbreak was detected inside a prison in the area
[*]Mike Pompeo yesterday accused China of covering up the epidemic scale



ZeroHedge is reporting the following summary, which includes a potential outbreak in New York on Long Island.  

Again, *ZeroHedge has not yet been proven wrong* but is regularly criticized for being alarmist.  So far they have been accurate.  

If being accurate is alarmist then that is an issue for the person who is denying fact 

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopoliti...ads-across-europe-virus-arrives-south-america


> Summary:
> 
> 
> CDC reports 6 new cases among repatriated Americans
> *83 being monitored in Nassau County*
> Norway has confirmed its first case
> 8 quarantined in Westchester
> HHS confirms 15th case
> Iran deaths hit 19
> Brazil confirms first case in South America
> France confirms 2nd death
> Tokyo pushes back against Tokyo Games cancellation talk
> Greece confirms first case
> Germany unleashes fiscal stimulus after confirming new cases
> Dems one-up Trump with $8.5 billion package.
> Kuwait, Iraq, Lebanon, Bahrain confirm new cases
> Finland confirms 2nd case
> 1st 2 cases reported in Pakistan
> *HHS Secretary tells Congress infectious disease fund has no extra uncommitted cash*
> Congress begins talks on corona virus spending bill with vote expected early next month
> Germany health minister warns we're at beginning of epidemic in Germany; 5 new cases
> Italy confirms 12th death, cases soar above 400
> North Macedonia confirms first case
> *South Korea cases soar above 1,200 *as gov't begins testing of 200k patients
> Brazil confirms infected patient came on plane from Paris
> Ericsson confirms one of its employees in Croatia tested positive
> * * *


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> There is a lot of conflicting data.
> 
> I see a lot of people who try to downplay this by comparing it to the seasonal flu and other diseases.  I don't think that is useful because the CDC and the WHO are saying that this is not responding like a typical seasonal flu so why do people try to downplay it by comparing it something that the scientists do not compare it to?  I'm not being alarmist, I'm just providing the data that I find.  The WHO is comparing this to SARS and EBOLA not to the flu.  The CDC is saying it is far more dangerous than the seasonal flu because of how it acts, and because so many may only get mild cases they may spread it to people who are very susceptible to getting complications.  The CDC and WHO are also puzzled as to why some people only get mild symptoms and others quickly die from complications.
> 
> From the early onset I was skeptical of the Chinese claims, if anything there is far more reason to believe the Chinese are bigger liars than anyone had ever guessed.
> 
> I just provide the headlines, the links and the highlights.  Figure out for yourself what you need to do.
> 
> I have a distant family member who worked at the CDC for over 2 decades, he is now a consultant to the CDC and living outside of Atlanta (_in the woods on a mountain with supplies_).  He says the US has a lot to worry about with this particular pandemic.
> 
> This from the English language Chinese newspaper EPOCH TIMES, via the English news company DailyMail:
> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...eport-claims.html?ito=email_share_article-top
> 
> 
> [*]*Coronavirus outbreak is 52 TIMES worse in one Chinese province than officials admit as local authorities seek to hide the true number of people infected, report claims*
> [*]Daily figure in Shandong has been up to 52 times the official toll, it is said
> [*]Shocking finding was revealed to a US-based newspaper by local officials
> [*]Comes after a worrying outbreak was detected inside a prison in the area
> [*]Mike Pompeo yesterday accused China of covering up the epidemic scale
> 
> 
> 
> ZeroHedge is reporting the following summary, which includes a potential outbreak in New York on Long Island.
> 
> Again, *ZeroHedge has not yet been proven wrong* but is regularly criticized for being alarmist.  So far they have been accurate.
> 
> If being accurate is alarmist then that is an issue for the person who is denying fact
> 
> https://www.zerohedge.com/geopoliti...ads-across-europe-virus-arrives-south-america



The new news seems to be getting more dire. 8 billion dollars to fight it in the US. 8 billion dollars is $16,000.00 per day for 2000 years, but hey don't worry about it the flu is much worse. Like your family member I can be on a mountain on 80 acres in the woods in 4 hours. I am watching closely. Like you I am not in panic mode but I am prepared.


----------



## Melensdad

And the latest news, a Korean Airline Stewardess was just diagnosed with Corona.  The significance of this tidbit is that she flew the route to Los Angeles several times.  It was her regular route.  She was just diagnosed in Seoul.


----------



## m1west

President Trump just had a new conference on the Corona virus with some experts. Bla bla bla we are on it. Nothing to worry about right now if it flares up we will beat it back. I think the powers at be are worried about the economy.


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> ...the powers at be are *worried about the economy.*


Following economics and financial blogs is how I found out about this and why I actually started this thread.


----------



## m1west

There is enough of it spread around the world now, it shouldn't be much longer before we know what the truth is on mortality rate and why some get it bad and die and some do not. That is the information I need to make decisions on what I am going to do.


----------



## pirate_girl

> Right-wing radio host Rush Limbaugh claimed on his show Monday that the potentially lethal coronavirus afflicting several countries is nothing more than a “common cold” blown out of proportion by the media to take down President Donald Trump― even as he also asserted it was a “bioweapon” created by China in a laboratory.
> 
> “It looks like the coronavirus is being weaponized as yet another element to bring down Donald Trump,” Limbaugh said at the start of his lengthy, misinformation-filled rant.
> 
> “Now, I want to tell you the truth about the coronavirus. ... I’m dead right on this. The coronavirus is the common cold, folks.”
> 
> Coronaviruses comprise a large family of many viruses, ranging in severity from the common cold to more severe illnesses such as Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS), an epidemic that infected more than 8,000 people in 2003. A novel coronavirus, such as the current COVID-19 outbreak, is a new strain of the virus that has previously not been identified in humans, the World Health Organization clearly explains on its site.
> 
> Limbaugh, though, chose to go off on his own tangent.
> 
> “The drive-by media hype of this thing as a pandemic, as the Andromeda strain, as, ‘Oh, my God. If you get it, you’re dead...’ I think the survival rate is 98%,” he said. “Ninety-eight percent of people who get the coronavirus survive. It’s a respiratory system virus.”
> 
> The mortality rate is not yet known, according to WHO.The organization’s latest situation report confirms 79,331 infections globally and 2,618 deaths, both widely reported figures.


That comes from both Ben Shapiro's site and Aol.


----------



## Melensdad

*These are private text massages between my cousin in German and myself.*  These are not some messages between some unknown people far far away.  My cousin is a PHD/Chemical Engineering, working for a multinational company in Germany.  

These all arrived in the past 12 hours, this is life in Germany right now as a white collar worker.  He and I communicate about 5 days out of 7 during a typical week.  These 3 messages were part of a longer stream that included some speculation, etc.  I picked them, without editing them, because they have no speculation just description.

_It’s getting serious by the day here!  My trade show that I decided on Tuesday to not attend next week in Paris was officially postponed until the end of May. That’s well over 25,000 who won’t attend the four day event!_​

_Then as I left yesterday there was some preliminary discussions on home offices and what are our needs to stay home for a couple of Months and only use Skype for meetings!  This would be difficult in my position as I need certain secure data bases and I also need to see customers but we will do those via Skype meetings_​
Ok I come into the office this morning and it was announced that all international travel has been cancelled until further notice.  Then anyone who has traveled to Japan and just returned must work from their home for the next 14 days.  Lastly, a work from home plan for all non essential employees is now underway.  This is getting serious!​​
I also have family and friends in England.  I have similar frequent contact with them, roughly 5 out of 7 days each week we text, send personal photos, etc.  

My brother in law's foreign flights are now cancelled through at least the end of March.  My nephew's school has a child enrolled who is now in quarantine.  A family member has been to Japan, the whole family is essentially under house arrest in a suburb of London for the next 2 weeks.  N95 masks are sold out in England.  

My sister reported this morning that her friend just returned home to the London area from Milan, Italy.  Milan is a known hotspot in Italy.  The woman told my sister that she is self quarantining herself and her family as there were ZERO precautions by airport security outbound or inbound and ZERO precautions on the airplane.  So nobody is going anything at government level in the UK yet, despite the open border policy the EU has even in the hotspot areas where schools are closed, church services are cancelled, the carnival and other festivals have been cancelled and towns are under self isolation rules.

Those are all personal stories from family members.  I would prefer to hear from scientists ... oh wait, my cousin is a scientist!  He was a chemistry professor at a university in Frankfurt before he switched to private research.




And then we have Rush Limbaugh:


> Right-wing radio host Rush Limbaugh claimed on his show Monday that the potentially lethal coronavirus afflicting several countries is nothing more than a “common cold” blown out of proportion by the media to take down President Donald Trump― even as he also asserted it was a “bioweapon” created by China in a laboratory.


*Hate to bring this up but wasn't he wrong about his own health issues? *  And all this statement is is an opinion with a conspiracy theory mixed into it.  It would be nice if he based his opinion on facts.  

And South Korea reported 505 cases yesterday.  S.K. actually now reported more new cases than China.    China has effectively stopped reporting new cases in any numbers despite reporting a steady 3000 new cases per day for over a month, while treating tens of thousands of cases.  It was confirmed, _again ZeroHedge was correct_, China was only able to test roughly 3000/day.  So the 3000/day that China reported were official cases, while many more were simply undiagnosed because they didn't have the capacity to test.  




In the meantime, the Sacramento Bee is reporting the first case of randomly spread Corona in the US.  A person with no known contact with anyone who has been to China, or even knows anyone who knows anyone who has been to Asia, has popped up as the first confirmed case of unknown transmission.

https://www.sacbee.com/news/local/health-and-medicine/article240674471.html


> Officials with the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention confirmed the nation’s first coronavirus case of unknown origin Wednesday in Northern California in the latest sign of the virus’ rapid spread.
> 
> “It is a confirmed case. There is one in Northern California,” CDC spokesman Scott Pauley told The Sacramento Bee just before 4 p.m. Wednesday.
> 
> In the Northern California case, “the individual is a resident of Solano County and is receiving medical care in Sacramento County. The individual had no known exposure to the virus through travel or close contact with a known infected individual,” California Department of Public Health officials said in a news release Wednesday evening. State public health officials in Sacramento, citing the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, said the case is the first person-to-person transmission of the COVID-19 virus.
> 
> Read more here: https://www.sacbee.com/news/local/health-and-medicine/article240674471.html#storylink=cpy






And over in Japan, where the cases have widely be reported to be pretty much limited to a cruise ship and a few other isolated cases, the entire nation has ordered all of the schools to close.

LINK => https://apnews.com/c92ca9ae1c59079557e98275ff814c06
Japan to close schools nationwide to control spread of virus

TOKYO (AP) — _Japan will close schools nationwide to help control the spread of the new virus, the government announced Thursday.

Prime Minister Shinzo Abe asked all elementary, middle and high schools to remain shut until spring holidays begin in late March.

The measure affects 12.8 million students at 34,847 schools nationwide, the education ministry said.

“The coming week or two is an extremely important time,” Abe said. “This is to prioritize the health and safety of the children and take precautions to avoid the risk of possible large-scale infections for many children and teachers who gather and spend hours together every day.”_​​




A woman in Japan who RECOVERED from the virus is now testing positive again as she has become reinfected.  FULL STORY at the link below.  

LINK => https://news.yahoo.com/japan-woman-tests-positive-virus-recovery-062631746.html


> Tokyo (AFP) - A woman in Japan who contracted the new coronavirus and was released from hospital after recovering has tested positive again, officials said Thursday.
> 
> The case is the first time a patient apparently cleared of the virus has subsequently tested positive for it, a local official in Osaka said.
> 
> The woman in her 40s was first confirmed as infected with the coronavirus on January 29.
> 
> She was working as a guide on a tour bus with tourists from Wuhan, the epicentre of the outbreak, in January. The driver of the bus was also diagnosed with the virus.
> 
> After being discharged from hospital she tested negative for the virus on February 6, although she still had a cough at the time.
> 
> She had no symptoms a week later, but returned to the doctor on February 21 complaining of a sore throat and chest pains.
> 
> On Wednesday, she tested positive for the coronavirus for a second time, officials said.


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> *These are private text massages between my cousin in German and myself.*  These are not some messages between some unknown people far far away.  My cousin is a PHD/Chemical Engineering, working for a multinational company in Germany.
> 
> These all arrived in the past 12 hours, this is life in Germany right now as a white collar worker.  He and I communicate about 5 days out of 7 during a typical week.  These 3 messages were part of a longer stream that included some speculation, etc.  I picked them, without editing them, because they have no speculation just description.
> 
> _It’s getting serious by the day here!  My trade show that I decided on Tuesday to not attend next week in Paris was officially postponed until the end of May. That’s well over 25,000 who won’t attend the four day event!_​
> 
> _Then as I left yesterday there was some preliminary discussions on home offices and what are our needs to stay home for a couple of Months and only use Skype for meetings!  This would be difficult in my position as I need certain secure data bases and I also need to see customers but we will do those via Skype meetings_​
> Ok I come into the office this morning and it was announced that all international travel has been cancelled until further notice.  Then anyone who has traveled to Japan and just returned must work from their home for the next 14 days.  Lastly, a work from home plan for all non essential employees is now underway.  This is getting serious!​​
> I also have family and friends in England.  I have similar frequent contact with them, roughly 5 out of 7 days each week we text, send personal photos, etc.
> 
> My brother in law's foreign flights are now cancelled through at least the end of March.  My nephew's school has a child enrolled who is now in quarantine.  A family member has been to Japan, the whole family is essentially under house arrest in a suburb of London for the next 2 weeks.  N95 masks are sold out in England.
> 
> My sister reported this morning that her friend just returned home to the London area from Milan, Italy.  Milan is a known hotspot in Italy.  The woman told my sister that she is self quarantining herself and her family as there were ZERO precautions by airport security outbound or inbound and ZERO precautions on the airplane.  So nobody is going anything at government level in the UK yet, despite the open border policy the EU has even in the hotspot areas where schools are closed, church services are cancelled, the carnival and other festivals have been cancelled and towns are under self isolation rules.
> 
> Those are all personal stories from family members.  I would prefer to hear from scientists ... oh wait, my cousin is a scientist!  He was a chemistry professor at a university in Frankfurt before he switched to private research.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And then we have Rush Limbaugh:
> 
> *Hate to bring this up but wasn't he wrong about his own health issues? *  And all this statement is is an opinion with a conspiracy theory mixed into it.  It would be nice if he based his opinion on facts.
> 
> And South Korea reported 505 cases yesterday.  S.K. actually now reported more new cases than China.    China has effectively stopped reporting new cases in any numbers despite reporting a steady 3000 new cases per day for over a month, while treating tens of thousands of cases.  It was confirmed, _again ZeroHedge was correct_, China was only able to test roughly 3000/day.  So the 3000/day that China reported were official cases, while many more were simply undiagnosed because they didn't have the capacity to test.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the meantime, the Sacramento Bee is reporting the first case of randomly spread Corona in the US.  A person with no known contact with anyone who has been to China, or even knows anyone who knows anyone who has been to Asia, has popped up as the first confirmed case of unknown transmission.
> 
> https://www.sacbee.com/news/local/health-and-medicine/article240674471.html
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> And over in Japan, where the cases have widely be reported to be pretty much limited to a cruise ship and a few other isolated cases, the entire nation has ordered all of the schools to close.
> 
> LINK => https://apnews.com/c92ca9ae1c59079557e98275ff814c06
> Japan to close schools nationwide to control spread of virus
> 
> TOKYO (AP) — _Japan will close schools nationwide to help control the spread of the new virus, the government announced Thursday.
> 
> Prime Minister Shinzo Abe asked all elementary, middle and high schools to remain shut until spring holidays begin in late March.
> 
> The measure affects 12.8 million students at 34,847 schools nationwide, the education ministry said.
> 
> “The coming week or two is an extremely important time,” Abe said. “This is to prioritize the health and safety of the children and take precautions to avoid the risk of possible large-scale infections for many children and teachers who gather and spend hours together every day.”_​​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A woman in Japan who RECOVERED from the virus is now testing positive again as she has become reinfected.  FULL STORY at the link below.
> 
> LINK => https://news.yahoo.com/japan-woman-tests-positive-virus-recovery-062631746.html
> ​



Yes I read about the Sacramento case last night. Thats pretty close to home- 50 miles


----------



## JimVT

our first school is closing. seattle,wa.
Bothell High School closed Thursday as a precaution for COVID-19 concerns
One staff member recently came back from international travel. A family member became sick, and the school closed out of an abundance of caution. 

Author: KING 5 Staff 
Published: 10:33 PM PST February 26, 2020 
Updated: 5:33 AM PST February 27, 2020


----------



## pirate_girl

In the United States, there is new concern about a potential case of the virus spreading to a person who has no known travel history to a country with an ongoing outbreak or to someone known to be infected.

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention announced that case late Wednesday involving a person in the state of California. CDC officials had said it is a matter of when, not if, the coronavirus would spread inside the country.

President Donald Trump held a news conference late Wednesday expressing confidence in his government’s readiness to respond.

The focus of the outbreak has shifted from being dominated by the cases in China, which still accounts for the vast majority of reported cases and deaths, to those outside the country. This week brought the first day in which the number of new cases elsewhere outnumbered those in China.

*Stay vigilant*

World Health Organization chief Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said governments need to remain vigilant, even if they see a reduction in cases. He pointed to successes in 14 countries that have not reported any new cases in more than a week, and nine that have gone more than two weeks without a new case.

“The primary objective of all countries with cases must be to contain the virus,” Tedros said.

https://www.voanews.com/science-hea...health-officials-focus-containing-coronavirus


Watch....
https://www.voanews.com/media/2556261/embed


----------



## Melensdad

pirate_girl said:


> In the United States, there is new concern about a potential case of the virus spreading to a person who has no known travel history to a country with an ongoing outbreak or to someone known to be infected.
> 
> The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention announced that case late Wednesday involving a person in the state of California. CDC officials had said it is a matter of when, not if, the coronavirus would spread inside the country.
> 
> ...


Yup, posted that California story, via the Sacramento Bee story, earlier.  But it is not a *potential* case, it is a *confirmed* case.  VOA is running behind other major media sources with their reporting.  

As for Trump’s press release yesterday, it was mostly a calming speech but had little substance contained in his words.  Pence is now in charge, hopefully he will provide an organized, non-chaotic hand on the wheel helping to steer us thru this.


----------



## pirate_girl




----------



## tiredretired

Meanwhile, the Dems continue to take charge in all of this by bringing new impeachment charges against President Trump for sniffling during yesterday's press conference.  

Stay tuned for more information concerning this from Schiff's and Nadler's office.


----------



## pirate_girl

They're calling the Pope's condition a slight indisposition.
Perhaps he should have thought better of going amongst the crowds at this time.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...is-sick-one-day-meeting-masked-ash-wednesday/


----------



## pirate_girl

The left are losing it over the President appointing Pence as head of the virus task force.

https://www.bizpacreview.com/2020/0...p-pence-to-head-coronavirus-task-force-891552


----------



## tiredretired

pirate_girl said:


> The left are losing it over the President appointing Pence as head of the virus task force.
> 
> https://www.bizpacreview.com/2020/0...p-pence-to-head-coronavirus-task-force-891552



Assholes.  The stupid douches would be much happier with a wide open southern border letting caravan after caravan march right through to infect every single one of us.  What a bunch of ignorant bastards.  Boggles the mind how people can be so stupid. 

I am just not so sorry to say I hope all the liberals get infected first.


----------



## m1west

TiredRetired said:


> Assholes.  The stupid douches would be much happier with a wide open southern border letting caravan after caravan march right through to infect every single one of us.  What a bunch of ignorant bastards.  Boggles the mind how people can be so stupid.
> 
> I am just not so sorry to say I hope all the liberals get infected first.



First the Dims call Trump racist for closing the air travel from China then say he has no plan for it. Wait until the southern border closes because of it they will go insane then blame Trump for every case that comes up.


----------



## Melensdad

pirate_girl said:


> The left are losing it over the President appointing Pence as head of the virus task force.
> 
> https://www.bizpacreview.com/2020/0...p-pence-to-head-coronavirus-task-force-891552



And then Pence brings in a former Obama appointee who was head of research at a military hospital and also headed the AIDS/HIV initiative for the US.  That must really confuse the lefties.  The VP, who they say is a mouth breathing, non-science believing, dumb Hoosier brings in a real expert, with ties to the Obama administration.  MIND BLOWN for liberals.


----------



## pirate_girl

I'm going to go a little off the mark here, so stay with me lol
Ahem!

Well, perhaps Pat Robertson will receive "the word" that this is all a result of the mass sin going on in the world, then he'll pray and it'll all go away. Just. Like. That. 
Maybe that half-wit Joel Osteen (who wouldn't allow hurricane flood victims enter his high and mighty church for refuge) will also jump on the bandwagon. 

Or maybe.. just maybe! vice President Pence can allay any further politicizing from the left -so as a nation we can take this for what it is: the next big lousy pandemic where we all come together knowing that yes, months from now this too shall pass and not somehow become Trump's black mark on his chance of getting reelected.


----------



## Melensdad




----------



## marchplumber

Melensdad said:


>






YET!!  Some of them VOTE and reproduce!!


  OMGosh!!  I didn't snopes this, but I do find it plausible!!  :th_lmao:


----------



## Melensdad

As I posted in the "Preparedness" thread, my sister lives outside of London and the British NHS confirmed a case in her county today.  She told me late this afternoon that, within a matter of a few hours, the grocery stores in her area have effectively been emptied of most staples.

And it looks like Corona is now loose in America. 

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopoliti...ope-hong-kong-dog-tests-positive-live-updates



> Oregon Officials Confirm Third Coronavirus Case "Of Unknown Origin"; *Risk Of "Community Outbreak" Is High*
> 
> by Tyler Durden
> Fri, 02/28/2020 - 21:58
> TwitterFacebookRedditEmailPrint
> 
> Summary:
> 
> 
> Health authorities in Texas and Oregon report 12 new coronavirus cases in US
> US coronavirus case total hits 63, *2nd case 'of unknown origin' confirmed*
> US issues travel advisory for Italy
> Italy says first case discovered in Lazio
> Google says employee who visited Zurich office has coronavirus
> France confirms 57 cases
> Italy reports 3 deaths in Lombardy; nat'l toll now 21; total cases 821
> Google employee tests positive for coronavirus after visiting Zurich office
> British man becomes 6th 'Diamond Princess' passenger to die
> *Two Japanese dogs tested positive for coronavirus*
> Mulvaney says school closures, transit disruptions may happen in US
> Dr. Tedros said Friday that there's no evidence of 'community outbreak'
> Mexico confirms 1st virus case
> Fauci warns virus could take 'two years' to develop
> Kudlow says "no higher priority" than the "health of the American people
> Toronto confirms another case
> WHO says 20 vaccines in development
> St. Louis Fed's Bullard pours cold water on market hopes
> Netherlands confirms 2 more
> United cuts flights to Japan
> Advisor to CDC says shortage of tests in US creating a "bottleneck"
> Nigeria confirms first case in sub-saharan africa
> *SK reports more than 1,000 new cases in under 48 hours*
> *Italy cases surpass 700*
> WHO says virus will 'soon be in all countries'
> * * *
> 
> Update (2130ET): During the presser - which is still ongoing - *Oregon officials confirmed that the case is of "unknown origin", the third such case in the US.* The individual is a Washington County resident, but has _spent time at the Forest Hills elementary school in Oswego_. The school will inform students and family about the risks.
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> The case will remain "presumptive" until they get the test result back from Atlanta, though CDC protocols call for treating presumptive cases as legitimate cases. For the record, the Oregon state health lab was able to conduct an initial test, which came back positive.
> 
> Amazingly, officials confirmed that the patient is still hospitalized, and has been isolated, but hasn't been subjected to "quarantine" status. They're reportedly being treated at a hospital in Hillsborough Oregon run by Kaiser Permanente.
> 
> Health officials said they're scrambling to trace the patient's movements over the past days and weeks and ferret out anyone who might have come into contact with her during that time.
> 
> "The most important thing to do - as mundane as it sounds - cover your face when you sneeze, wash your hands, and if you have any flu-like symptoms, stay home."
> 
> As far as the patient's condition, officials wouldn't go into specifics beyond saying that she remains "hospitalized". Since the patient didn't travel abroad, the assumption is that the infection was acquired "in the community."
> 
> The officials said they hope Oregonians would "go about their daily lives" and not let the news affect them. We suspect that might be difficult, considering that the patient hasn't even been quarantined, and is likely only the "tip of the iceberg" when it comes to infections in the state.
> 
> Before we go, we wanted to point out an interesting detail from the press conference: When asked by a reporter about a rumor from earlier in the week about a coronavirus patient at a Kaiser Permanente facility in the state, officials said that they believed that rumor "didn't refer to this case" - when it's obvious to anybody with a brain that the rumor was accurate.
> 
> Officials insist that they're conveying the information to the public "just hours" after finding out. But the presence of this rumor seems to contradict that. And if officials did know about the case earlier in the week (their phrasing seemed to imply that the materials for confirmation were sent to the CDC in Atlanta days), why did they wait to tell the public?
> 
> * * *
> 
> Update (2045ET): Any reporters who were hoping for a quiet night relatively free of coronavirus news, well, those hopes have unfortunately been dashed.
> 
> Because in a major bombshell that seriously undercuts President Trump's 'everything is under control' message from his big press conference Wednesday night, state health authorities in Oregon and Texas reported a combined 12 new cases of the virus.
> 
> This is in addition to two new cases that were confirmed earlier on Friday, and brings the total number of cases confirmed in the US to 74.
> 
> 11 new cases have been confirmed by federal officials, according to local media reports.
> 
> The new cases include nine from the Diamond Princess cruise ship, one from the Wuhan group of quarantined passengers, and one that was transferred from the Marine Corps Air Station Miramar in San Diego.
> 
> City officials in San Antonio insisted that the risk of infection remains very low, since the patients have all been under mandatory quarantine. Another 145 people are still quarantined at Joint Base San Antonio-Lackland. Ninety Americans evacuated from Wuhan were released after finishing their quarantine without contracting the virus, said the CDC's Nancy Knight during a Thursday news conference in Austin led by Texas Gov. Greg Abbott.
> 
> Meanwhile, state officials in Oregon announced the state's first "presumptive" case of the virus ("presumptive" since the CDC's strict protocols often delay - or prevent - testing in at-risk patients, as we discussed earlier, as well as in an update from last night).
> 
> ...






But there might be a ray of sunshine from Israel???  Full story at the link below:

https://nypost.com/2020/02/28/israeli-scientists-claim-to-be-weeks-away-from-coronavirus-vaccine/



> *Israeli scientists claim to be weeks away from coronavirus vaccine
> By Yaron Steinbuch :39*
> 
> Amid fears of a looming pandemic, scientists in the US and across the globe are scrambling to develop vaccines – including in Israel, where one group of researchers says it could be ready in just three weeks and available for use within 90 days.
> 
> The scientists at the Galilee Research Institute, known as MIGAL, are adapting its vaccine against the avian coronavirus infectious bronchitis virus, or IBV, to work for the novel coronavirus known as COVID-19, the Jerusalem Post reported.
> 
> “Congratulations to MIGAL on this exciting breakthrough. I am confident that there will be further rapid progress, enabling us to provide a needed response to the grave global COVID-19 threat,” said Ofir Akunis, Israel’s minister of science and technology.
> 
> ...





Democrats are hoping the Corona *response in the USA* is a failure so they can blame Trump. 

Does that mean that Democrats are hoping things get bad and Americans die?  

Pretty sure that is what they are saying  

I'm not going to quote the story, the large type I posted says what the story says.  But the basic gist is that during the Democratic debate, and afterward, the Democrats have basically thrown out a bunch of lies, exaggerations and partial falsehoods to make Trump look bad.  Its a partisan story, from a partisan source.  STORY IS HERE, basically says Democrats are f'ing liars  =>  
https://www.dailywire.com/news/demo...es-could-make-fighting-disease-more-difficult

For those that don't like or trust the right wing Daily Wire, here is the AP Fact check website that says the Daily Wire got the story right!  https://apnews.com/d36d6c4de29f4d04beda3db00cb46104



> *AP FACT CHECK: Democrats distort coronavirus readiness
> *
> WASHINGTON (AP) — Democratic presidential contenders are describing the federal infectious-disease bureaucracy as rudderless and ill-prepared for the coronavirus threat because of budget cuts and ham-handed leadership by President Donald Trump. That’s a distorted picture. .....


FULL STORY at the link above!  It shows the partial truths, partial mistruths and outright lies.  AP is generally a middle left, trying to be non-partisan news source.​


----------



## JimVT

I spent all evening at out town hospital an all the available containers that had face masks  for use in ER were emptied out. I watch one worker go to several paces looking for one.
my wife fell hard and broke her wrist. 
oh,our town is 11000people and one hospital.


----------



## Melensdad

I hope her wrist heals without complications.  I broke mine when I was in grade school.  It felt fine for decades but its coming back to haunt me.  


In other news...  CNBC is reporting that the World Health Organization is now officially alarmed.


FULL STORY at CNBC ==> https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/28/who...coronavirus-to-very-high-at-global-level.html

> WHO raises coronavirus threat assessment to its highest level
> Berkeley Lovelace Jr.
> 
> World Health Organization officials said Friday they are increasing the risk assessment of the coronavirus, which has spread to at least 49 countries in a matter of weeks, to *“very high”* at a global level.
> 
> “We are on the highest level of alert or highest level of risk assessment in terms of spread and in terms of impact,” said Dr. Mike Ryan, executive director of WHO’s health emergencies program. The group isn’t trying to alarm or scare people, he said. “This is a reality check for every government on the planet: Wake up. Get ready. This virus may be on its way and you need to be ready. You have a duty to your citizens, you have a duty to the world to be ready.”
> 
> The world can still avoid “the worst of it,” but the increased risk assessment means the WHO’s “level of concern is at its highest,” he said at a press conference at WHO headquarters in Geneva.
> 
> World leaders still have a chance to contain the virus within their borders, Ryan said. “To wait, to be complacent to be caught unawares at this point, it’s really not much of an excuse.”


----------



## m1west

The first Corona virus death reported in the US, it is spreading around Northern Ca. near where I live. Marty


----------



## tiredretired

Corona beer is being avoided.  Hell, I don't even drink.


----------



## Melensdad

TiredRetired said:


> Corona beer is being avoided.  Hell, I don't even drink.



Tecate beer never started a virus.  Neither did Dos XX.   Just sayin!

If you are going to be a Mexican beer, best not be Corona!


----------



## Melensdad

New case in Chicagoland.  Somewhere in Cook County.  Several different news sources are providing very little info.  We know the person was in contact with people who have not been contacted/tracked down.  We don’t know much else.  

WGN9 News story => https://wgntv.com/news/illinois-health-officials-announce-new-case-of-coronavirus/



> *Illinois health officials announce new case of coronavirus*
> 
> Feb 29, 2020 / 07:32 PM CST
> Posted: / Updated: Feb 29, 2020 / 07:41 PM CST
> 
> The Illinois Department of Health have announced that one Illinois resident has tested positive for coronavirus.
> 
> The positive test results will have to be confirmed by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention lab. The patient is hospitalized in isolation and CDC protocols have been implemented.
> 
> *Officials are working to identify and monitor individuals who were in contact with the patient in an effort to reduce the risk of additional transmission. The state will request that the CDC deploys a team to support these efforts.*
> 
> Gov. Pritzker has requested that hospitals across the state implement additional testing to improve surveillance for coronavirus. Illinois was the first state to provide COVID-19 testing and Pritzker announced two more IDPH labs in central and southern Illinois that will be able to test specimens next week.
> 
> Illinois has had two previously confirmed cases of coronavirus and both patients made a full recovery.
> 
> At this time, it’s not known where the patient is located.


----------



## Melensdad

The White House will be meeting with 8 major drug companies tomorrow. 

Alameda County declared a health emergency after an EMT tested positive

Everything else is the same only a day worse


----------



## Melensdad

The summary from ZeroHedge today:

*2nd US Death Confirmed In Washington State As Outbreak Accelerates Across America: Virus Updates*


2nd US death reported in Washington State
OECD warns global growth could fall by half
Indonesia reports first cases
"Progress is being made" toward a vaccine
Cuomo says NY expects more cases
India confirms 2 more cases
'Official' Iran death toll hits 66
EU confirms 38 deaths across 18 members
*First cases confirmed in Fla.*
2 Amazon employees test positive in Milan
Virus now in 7 US states: Washington, California, Illinois, Rhode Island, New York, Florida and Oregon
San Antonio virus patient re-hospitalized after testing positive
China warns it could face 'locust invasion'

A few did bits that are amusing.

NY Governor Cuomo, who is very critical Trump/Pence, confirmed that the New York CITY confirmed case is someone who just returned from Iran and is SELF ISOLATING at home where she can spread the virus to 7-million neighbors.  Anyone else recall the boasts from Cuomo about the state-of-the-art medical facilities he has?  If so, why is she sitting in her NYC apartment?   

*THE GLOBAL TIMES is poking fun at the CDC. * 

It is clear that the CDC is concerned about all the N95 masks that have been sold to the general public, creating a supply chain problem at hospitals that can NOT get enough of the N95 masks.  The CDC is sending messages telling people to stop buying the N95 masks, saying they only help health professionals who need them but don't help citizens?!?  _Uhhh, yup, if you have special degrees from medical universities these masks are good for you... but if you don't have special training then the mask does no good?_


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


I'm not going to quote this story but I find it interesting and encourage you to all go read it.  Basically it talks about google searches and how TV News seems to create some level of panic.  How TV News stories came late.  And also how TV News stories tend to focus on POLITICS and ECONOMICS in somewhat disproportionate amounts when it might be better to focus on HEALTH issues.  

MEDIA COVERAGE and Coronavirus Panic:  What the Numbers Show

LINK ==>  https://www.realclearpolitics.com/a...virus_panic_what_the_numbers_show_142539.html


Interesting stuff for people who enjoy statistics.


...


----------



## Jim_S RIP

*Re: Toons For The Times*

Branco Cartoon – Nothing But Fear Itself


----------



## Melensdad

Again, because I follow more of the financial news than the mainstream news, I found an interesting side note, *UVC lamp demand has exploded in China*.

Apparently the *Chinese authorities have bought a huge amount of UVC lamps*. All Chinese producers of these light are now legally forced to sell 100% of their UVC lamp production to the government.  They are also buying UVC lamps from a huge European supplier.

Why might they do this?  *UVC lamps are a solution to disinfect the air, surfaces and water when correctly deployed apparently.*

The authorities in China apparently may want to use these for regular lighting in order to attack the Coronavirus issue?   If that is, indeed the case, the bad news .... this type of lighting is harmful for every living organism when used outside of controlled environments.

If not used correctly in a controlled environment, it causes severe burns and blindness.  Normally these lamps are used in empty rooms for air cleaning critical apparatus. *They are not intended for use on humans*.

So if you hear that the virus causes burns and blindness, then you are not hearing the truth.  You hare hearing that people have been improperly exposed to UVC lighting by the Chinese government (_or potentially some other government that is fighting in desperation to control the Coronavirus_).  


Here is a simple wikipedia link on the use of these bulbs for disinfecting labs, etc => https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraviolet_germicidal_irradiation


----------



## pixie

I would guess that the UVC lamps are to decontaminate surfaces. 
No one has said much about how long the virus can last on surfaces but since the virus seems to be able to spread without being breathed on by an infected person, that it lasts longer than 'they' want to tell us on surfaces like money and grocery carts.


----------



## pixie

And....they will need to assure the world that all the products they ship are decontaminated in some way and sending them thru a light box or something would actually do that if the light got to all the surfaces.

They could purify the air in the bubble wrap ....


----------



## waybomb

October, November, December, January, and even now, people have been sick for weeks on end. Not the flu. Just plain ol' sick.
Maybe the thing didn't start in China; maybe we are simply more resilient? 
Just a thought.


----------



## pirate_girl

waybomb said:


> October, November, December, January, and even now, people have been sick for weeks on end. Not the flu. Just plain ol' sick.
> Maybe the thing didn't start in China; maybe we are simply more resilient?
> Just a thought.



Stop being so sensible, Fred.


----------



## pirate_girl

https://www.veteranstoday.com/2020/...ergency-hospital-due-to-virus-battle-success/


----------



## pirate_girl

Here is a very interesting post, which I'm going to copy and paste after the initial screen shot from the comments from Irish's blog.
This person lives in Japan.
In advance, I'll warn that the language is a tad colourful. 
-----------------



Greetings from sunny Osaka, Japan. I'm here to tell you it's all bullshit. DO THE FUCKING MATH! Latest stats from here >> https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-cases/ show 3,000 deaths. More telling is going to the "age" page and you will see that THE GREAT MAJORITY OF DEATHS ARE THOSE OVER 70, and according to other sites, they had pre-existing health problems. So, that makes this just like the freaking flu.

Here in Osaka there is a tell as to any health problem --- the sirens. Damn ambulances blow them things at night no matter the time, even though there is no traffic after midnight because the trains and subways shut down then. I assure you they have been rather quiet lately. And PM Abe closing the schools? Pure politician, because any perusal of the stats will show that school children are UNAFFECTED BY COVID-19!! In China, as well as everywhere else, the danger is not the virus, the danger is the reactions of fucking idiots that think with their emotions and the immoral politicians that seek to gain by manipulating those emotions. I am fortunate to be in Japan. The people don't panic because they believe the government will take care of them. The only empty shelf here in Osaka? Toilet paper, and masks. Not kidding. Everything else is available in abundance.

But even here, people are starting to avoid crowds. A few large flea markets have been cancelled, and even in a culture where eating out is the norm, our restaurant on Friday night was half of the normal occupancy. However, Shinsaibashi-suji was still fairly active. My interpreter at Nissay hospital told me they are just using basic flu protocal - wash hands, wear mask, don't touch anyone. The Japanese custom of bowing instead of shaking hands or hugging was created for the purpose of preventing the spread of disease.


One big change I have noticed on this visit (my first was in 2005, I have been here since Feb. 2018, my previous visit was 2014.) is the number of Chinese. Tourist or otherwise, on the shopping streets or other tourist destinations you hear a lot of Chinese. So, they have been coming here during this whole fiasco, and there are not bodies laying in the streets. I read where many Chinese are coming here to open Japanese bank accounts to get money out of China because Japan has no treaty or restrictions against it. Whatever, they are here.

What gets me is all of the people that say it is way worse than the gubments are saying. Why do you believe that? Oh, suddenly the fucking media has become trustworthy? Even Zerohedge has turned into a factless fearmonger. Even if the stats were 10x worse than reported, as someone suggested, that would mean your chances of dying from this bullshit would be 7,500,000,000 / 30,000 = 1 in 250,000! And if you are under 70, the odds are exponentially better.

DO THE FUCKING MATH!

Cheers.


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> The summary from ZeroHedge today:
> 
> *2nd US Death Confirmed In Washington State As Outbreak Accelerates Across America: Virus Updates*
> 
> 
> 2nd US death reported in Washington State
> OECD warns global growth could fall by half
> Indonesia reports first cases
> "Progress is being made" toward a vaccine
> Cuomo says NY expects more cases
> India confirms 2 more cases
> 'Official' Iran death toll hits 66
> EU confirms 38 deaths across 18 members
> *First cases confirmed in Fla.*
> 2 Amazon employees test positive in Milan
> Virus now in 7 US states: Washington, California, Illinois, Rhode Island, New York, Florida and Oregon
> San Antonio virus patient re-hospitalized after testing positive
> China warns it could face 'locust invasion'
> 
> A few did bits that are amusing.
> 
> NY Governor Cuomo, who is very critical Trump/Pence, confirmed that the New York CITY confirmed case is someone who just returned from Iran and is SELF ISOLATING at home where she can spread the virus to 7-million neighbors.  Anyone else recall the boasts from Cuomo about the state-of-the-art medical facilities he has?  If so, why is she sitting in her NYC apartment?
> 
> *THE GLOBAL TIMES is poking fun at the CDC. *
> 
> It is clear that the CDC is concerned about all the N95 masks that have been sold to the general public, creating a supply chain problem at hospitals that can NOT get enough of the N95 masks.  The CDC is sending messages telling people to stop buying the N95 masks, saying they only help health professionals who need them but don't help citizens?!?  _Uhhh, yup, if you have special degrees from medical universities these masks are good for you... but if you don't have special training then the mask does no good?_
> 
> 
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> 
> 
> I'm not going to quote this story but I find it interesting and encourage you to all go read it.  Basically it talks about google searches and how TV News seems to create some level of panic.  How TV News stories came late.  And also how TV News stories tend to focus on POLITICS and ECONOMICS in somewhat disproportionate amounts when it might be better to focus on HEALTH issues.
> 
> MEDIA COVERAGE and Coronavirus Panic:  What the Numbers Show
> 
> LINK ==>  https://www.realclearpolitics.com/a...virus_panic_what_the_numbers_show_142539.html
> 
> 
> Interesting stuff for people who enjoy statistics.
> 
> 
> ...



Now China is going to get locusts  sounds like the 4 horsemen are riding straight towards them.


----------



## Melensdad




----------



## pirate_girl

SEOUL, SOUTH KOREA - The death toll from the coronavirus in the U.S. climbed to six Monday and the disease spread to ever more countries and world capitals, even as new cases in China dropped to their lowest level in six weeks.

A shift in the crisis appeared to be taking shape, as hundreds of patients were released from hospitals at the epicenter of the outbreak in China and the World Health Organization reported that nine times more cases were reported outside the country than inside it over the past 24 hours.

At the same time, the virus popped up for the first time in New York, Moscow and Berlin, and clusters of the disease surged around the world. In the U.S., health officials announced four more people died, bringing the total to six, all in Washington state, where researchers said the virus may have been circulating undetected for weeks.

The global death toll pushed past 3,000, and the number of people infected topped 89,000, with fast-expanding outbreaks in South Korea, Italy and Iran.

Dr. Mike Ryan, the WHO’s chief of emergencies, pointed out that even regions that have taken less aggressive measures than the extraordinary lockdowns implemented by China have managed to keep the virus in check. Ryan said that because COVID-19 is not as easily transmitted as the flu, “it offers us a glimmer ... that this virus can be suppressed and contained.”

Around the world, the virus reshaped people’s routines, both at home and at work, from the millions of Japanese schoolchildren facing four weeks without class to special voting booths for Israelis under quarantine. Mobile hospitals were planned in Iran, and the “Mona Lisa” hung in a vacant room of the shuttered Louvre in Paris.

https://www.voanews.com/science-hea...-death-toll-climbs-6-viral-crisis-eases-china


----------



## Jim_S RIP

Forget the Scotch, this may be the cure . . .


----------



## Melensdad

pirate_girl said:


> Here is a very interesting post, which I'm going to copy and paste after the initial screen shot from the comments from Irish's blog.
> This person lives in Japan.
> In advance, I'll warn that the language is a tad colourful.
> -----------------
> 
> View attachment 123874
> 
> Greetings from sunny Osaka, Japan. I'm here to tell you it's all bullshit. DO THE FUCKING MATH! Latest stats from here >> https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-cases/ show 3,000 deaths. More telling is going to the "age" page and you will see that THE GREAT MAJORITY OF DEATHS ARE THOSE OVER 70, and according to other sites, they had pre-existing health problems. So, that makes this just like the freaking flu.
> 
> Here in Osaka there is a tell as to any health problem --- the sirens. Damn ambulances blow them things at night no matter the time, even though there is no traffic after midnight because the trains and subways shut down then. I assure you they have been rather quiet lately. And PM Abe closing the schools? Pure politician, because any perusal of the stats will show that school children are UNAFFECTED BY COVID-19!! In China, as well as everywhere else, the danger is not the virus, the danger is the reactions of fucking idiots that think with their emotions and the immoral politicians that seek to gain by manipulating those emotions. I am fortunate to be in Japan. The people don't panic because they believe the government will take care of them. The only empty shelf here in Osaka? Toilet paper, and masks. Not kidding. Everything else is available in abundance.
> 
> But even here, people are starting to avoid crowds. A few large flea markets have been cancelled, and even in a culture where eating out is the norm, our restaurant on Friday night was half of the normal occupancy. However, Shinsaibashi-suji was still fairly active. My interpreter at Nissay hospital told me they are just using basic flu protocal - wash hands, wear mask, don't touch anyone. The Japanese custom of bowing instead of shaking hands or hugging was created for the purpose of preventing the spread of disease.
> 
> 
> One big change I have noticed on this visit (my first was in 2005, I have been here since Feb. 2018, my previous visit was 2014.) is the number of Chinese. Tourist or otherwise, on the shopping streets or other tourist destinations you hear a lot of Chinese. So, they have been coming here during this whole fiasco, and there are not bodies laying in the streets. I read where many Chinese are coming here to open Japanese bank accounts to get money out of China because Japan has no treaty or restrictions against it. Whatever, they are here.
> 
> What gets me is all of the people that say it is way worse than the gubments are saying. Why do you believe that? Oh, suddenly the fucking media has become trustworthy? Even Zerohedge has turned into a factless fearmonger. Even if the stats were 10x worse than reported, as someone suggested, that would mean your chances of dying from this bullshit would be 7,500,000,000 / 30,000 = 1 in 250,000! And if you are under 70, the odds are exponentially better.
> 
> DO THE FUCKING MATH!
> 
> Cheers.



Interesting that some recent posts say the seasonal flu is more lethal and spreads faster than Corona.  *Neither of those statements seems to be accurate.*  The Coronavirus seems to have a higher R0 (R naught) for transmission.  CDC says the R0 for seasonal flu is 1.3 while the R0 for Corona is 2 to 3 (and still being determined).  But in rough numbers the Corona is transmitted at twice the rate as the flu.   Mortality also is projected to be between 1 and 2%.  The seasonal flu mortality rate is 0.1%.  

When it comes to math, the post is wrong.  At least based on WHO and/or CDC statements.  

Here is another comparison:  https://www.bostonherald.com/2020/02/26/coronavirus-vs-flu-what-you-need-to-know/


> Coronavirus and the flu share a lot of similarities — with many of their differences rooted in the unknown.
> 
> *Dr. Daniel Kuritzkes, chief of infectious diseases at Brigham and Women’s Hospital, and Dr. Shira Doron, infectious disease physician and epidemiologist at Tufts Medical Center*, both noted the two infections share more similarities than differences.
> 
> Coronavirus and flu are both spread via respiratory droplets that can be passed from person-to-person or land on surfaces — like doorknobs or light switches.
> 
> 
> Both infections originate in animals, cause fever and cough and could lead to death due to respiratory failure.
> 
> Patients that have flu or coronavirus can be contagious before the onset of symptoms, but thankfully, both can be prevented in the same way by practicing good hygiene and limiting contact with infected persons.
> 
> Scientists, doctors and researchers are still searching for more information about coronavirus, and since it is completely new, our bodies have no immunity to it, whereas the flu has been around for at least 500 years.
> 
> Vaccines and antiviral medications to combat the flu help thousands of patients every year, but neither treatment for coronavirus currently exists. The incubation period for the flu is 5-7 days, much shorter than coronavirus’s 14-day period.
> 
> *The current mortality rate for coronavirus, about 2%, is higher than that of the flu, which is only about 0.1%. While it is much more likely that a person will become infected with flu, the lethality of coronavirus is still higher.*
> 
> The flu comes back every year and is even considered a yearly global pandemic. At this time, it is unknown if coronavirus is seasonal or if it will continue to come back every year.



Again, dealing with the R0, or the potential infection/transmission rate:
https://www.theatlantic.com/science...t-and-far-will-new-coronavirus-spread/605632/



> ...In the past week, *at least six teams of researchers, along with the World Health Organization, have published estimates of R0 for the new coronavirus*. All these groups used different methods, but their results have been mostly consistent, with estimates hovering between 2 and 3. WHO was a little more conservative than the others, with estimates of 1.4 to 2.5. One Chinese team is a clear outlier, with estimates of 3.3 to 5.5. And a British-led group initially published a high average value of 3.8 last week before revising it downward to 2.5 as new data emerged.
> 
> In the intervening time, however, some observers seized upon the 3.8 number, with one Harvard epidemiologist describing it as “thermonuclear pandemic level bad” in a tweet that was retweeted more than 16,000 times, before he took it down. That’s a dubious interpretation, and here are six reasons why.
> 
> First, the R0 estimates for the new coronavirus are in line with those for many other diseases. They’re similar to those for SARS (2 to 5) and HIV (also 2 to 5), and considerably lower than those for measles (12 to 16).
> 
> Second, a bigger R0 doesn’t necessarily mean a worse disease. Seasonal flu has an R0 that hovers around 1.3, and yet it infects millions of people every year. SARS had an R0 of 2 to 5 and infected just over 8,000 people. The number is a measure of potential transmissibility. It does not actually tell you how fast a disease will spread....





If someone does the math, and if the same number of people are ultimately infected by the flu and by coronavirus, the coronavirus will kill exponentially more people than the seasonal flu.  That is simple math.  But again, based on the R0, it seems twice as many people may catch the Coronavirus.  

*Currently far fewer people have Corona and far more have seasonal flu. * 

But if the R0 transmission rate is close to accurate then *the number of people infected by Corona will easily catch up to the numbers of affected individuals as the seasonal flu*.  Again, math.  And as of today, the only way that governments seem to be able to slow the spread of Corona is via quarantine orders and self quarantine by individuals.  With Ebola and SARS the governments were able to contain, and therefore stop the spread despite high R0 rates.  That doesn't seem to be the case with Corona.  _Due to the fact that many infected individuals present no symptoms for up to 2 weeks, they can freely travel and spread the disease, and this seems to be happening.  _

FWIW, none of this data came from ZeroHedge (_which has lately been condemned for hyping panic but seems to still be providing factual information 24-48 hours ahead of the mainstream media sources_)  
*
And for the real math geeks among us*, the number of confirmed cases outside of China has more than tripled over the past week.  If we continue to see a similar exponential growth rate, there will be more than a million confirmed cases outside of China just five weeks from now.  Anyone want to bet on the number of cases that will be reported worldwide by mid-April?  I wouldn't be the farm it will be 1,000,000 but then again I wouldn't bet against it either.  It is clearly possible that we could see a MILLION infected in a matter of 5-6 weeks, despite the fact that some nations are stopping all events over 1000 people, despite the fact that France closed the Lourve Museum, despite the fact that travel restrictions have been imposed, despite the fact that the Catholic Church ordered that no masses be held in Korea until further notice, despite the fact that Japan has closed their schools for a month, despite the fact that some American universities are pulling back their foreign study students and imposing quarantines, despite the fact that airlines are stopping flights to entire nations ...


And all this brings up another point.  IF WE DO NOT TEST THEN WE DO NOT KNOW.  If we do not know then we cannot accurately report.  

FULL STORY =>  https://miami.cbslocal.com/2020/03/...-miami-woman-allegedly-denied-proper-testing/



> *Coronavirus Confusion: Miami Woman Allegedly Denied Proper Testing*
> Jim DeFedeMarch 2, 2020 at 6:56 pm
> 
> MIAMI (CBSMiami) – In what may be the first case of coronavirus in South Florida, a woman who recently returned home from Italy says she was told by doctors at Jackson Memorial Hospital that she “likely” has COVID-19, but that they are unable to verify it because state and federal officials refused to conduct the necessary tests to confirm it.
> 
> “The doctor himself told me that, you know, he thinks that the results of my [preliminary] tests mean that I most likely have the COVID-19, but that the Department of Health did not want to pursue it further,” said the woman, who requested that her name not be used to protect her privacy. “It was either the Department of Health or the CDC that decided not to further pursue the inquiry. But I was basically told that it is most likely that I have this virus and that I should self-quarantine.”
> 
> “Obviously, I would have liked to know if, in fact, I have this virus.”
> 
> A spokeswoman for Jackson Memorial Hospital wouldn’t discuss the woman’s case citing federal privacy laws, but said: “Jackson, like all other hospitals in the state, is following guidelines for testing established by the CDC and the Florida Department of Health.”
> 
> The Florida Department of Health would not comment on the woman’s case but in an email to CBS Miami, a spokesman for the agency “encourages” the woman to contact the health department. The email did not address the apparent confusion between Jackson and the state regarding who should be tested and when.
> 
> The woman’s story highlights a serious flaw in how the United States has responded to the coronavirus. Until recently testing for the virus was limited to only an extremely small group of individuals who had travelled to China or those who were critically ill. As a result, *health experts have warned, that the small number of people testing positive for the virus gives the public the false sense the virus has been contained* or is limited in the United States.
> 
> “If you are not testing, then you don’t know how many people actually have the virus,” said Dr. Aileen Marty, an infectious disease expert at Florida International University. *“And we have not been testing.”*
> 
> ...




Finally, from the New York Times, some information on rates flu patients can expect to spread the seasonal flu vs how corona patients can expect to spread Coronavirus.  Bear in mind this NYT article uses math that completely destroys the math and some of the statements in prior blog posts and VOA article.  The NY Times article is a long article, lots of graphs, lots of charts, but very informative.  

As always, this is just a snippet of the article, go to the link and read the whole article => https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/world/asia/china-coronavirus-contain.html



> *If 5 people with new coronavirus each infected 2.6 others ...*
> 
> _... there could be 140 people sick after 4 cycles._
> 
> Compare that with a less contagious virus, like the seasonal flu, which can be slowed by vaccines and immunity from past epidemics. People with the flu tend to infect 1.3 other individuals, on average. The difference may seem small, but the result is a striking contrast: Only about 45 people might be infected in the same scenario.
> 
> *If 5 people with seasonal flu each infected 1.3 others ..*.
> 
> _... there could be 31 people sick after 4 cycles._
> 
> The *transmission numbers of any disease aren’t set in stone. They can change depending on how much people interact at school, work or religious gatherings*. When global health authorities methodically tracked and isolated people infected with SARS in 2003, they were able to bring the average number each sick person infected down to 0.4, enough to stop the outbreak.
> 
> Health authorities around the world are expending enormous effort trying to repeat that. But the number of people infected globally is rising quickly, with large clusters of cases in Italy, Iran, Japan and South Korea.
> 
> *The virus’s high rate of transmission means containment measures — such as wearing masks, keeping a distance from infected people and implementing quarantines if people are exposed — must block more than 60 percent of transmissions in order to effectively control the outbreak, which is difficult.*
> 
> ...
> 
> The World Health Organization officials have praised China’s aggressive response to the virus — *walling off cities, forcing people to stay home and tracking large numbers of contacts of infected people — saying that it helped curb the spread of more cases.* The daily tally of new cases there peaked and then plateaued between Jan. 23 and Feb. 2, and has steadily declined since.
> 
> *Many countries have also enacted travel restrictions and bans, closing their doors to people from countries with sustained transmission of the virus. Governments around the world have been screening incoming passengers for signs of illness. Airlines and cruise lines have canceled service to many Asian destinations*.
> 
> Critics fear those measures won’t be enough.
> 
> The rate at which transmissions are spreading in several countries makes it seem* “unlikely that containment will be a strategy that will completely stop this virus,”* said Clarence Tam, an assistant professor of infectious diseases at the School of Public Health at the National University of Singapore.


----------



## pirate_girl

US death count from the virus 6.
US deaths from the devastating tornado(Nashville) which stayed on the ground for 1 hour.
9.
So far...


----------



## Melensdad

pirate_girl said:


> US death count from the virus 6.
> US deaths from the devastating tornado(Nashville) which stayed on the ground for 1 hour.
> 9.
> So far...



For whatever it is worth, I'm not all that worried about the total death count.  

How about the total economic toll to the nation?  Or the number of families that will be adversely affected if cities are quarantined and people can't go to work for 2, 4, or 6 weeks?  Will they lose their homes?  Will the remaining small businesses in the small town downtowns close their doors and file bankruptcy?  What is the toll on all these small towns and their residents?  

There is so much more to consider than the simple number of deaths.


----------



## m1west

Until credible consistent information is reported on transmission and mortality rate, taking this lightly is like visiting a whorehouse without condoms on 2 for 1 day. Marty


----------



## pirate_girl

Melensdad said:


> For whatever it is worth, I'm not all that worried about the total death count.
> 
> How about the total economic toll to the nation?  Or the number of families that will be adversely affected if cities are quarantined and people can't go to work for 2, 4, or 6 weeks?  Will they lose their homes?  Will the remaining small businesses in the small town downtowns close their doors and file bankruptcy?  What is the toll on all these small towns and their residents?
> 
> There is so much more to consider than the simple number of deaths.



On the other hand, now 19 people dead from the tornado.
Those who have possibly lost their homes, businesses may have been wiped out thus affecting jobs.
Perspective.


----------



## Melensdad

pirate_girl said:


> On the other hand, now 19 people dead from the tornado.
> Those who have possibly lost their homes, businesses may have been wiped out thus affecting jobs.
> Perspective.



WOW

NOPE

NOT EVEN CLOSE

 Last time I checked a tornado does not strike nations. They are very very localized events.  A single grocery store in one town can be rebuilt, ditto the hardware store and the gas station. But we are talking about the economy of much of the world and tens upon hundreds of thousands of jobs.

The order of magnitude of the difference between a localized tornado in a worldwide pandemic should not be trivialized in this way The order of magnitude of the difference between a localized tornado in a worldwide pandemic should not be trivialized in this way as to make such a simplistic comparisons.  I’m shocked by this.


----------



## bczoom

They said that much of last week's stock market drop was due to corona virus fears.
I know I took a major hit.  Lost all gains for the last 9 months or so.


----------



## pirate_girl

Just being a realist, Bob.
It's a virus.
It's doing what viruses do.
More people have died from the flu this year.
That is also devastating.
This too shall pass and we'll all learn something from it.
I'll stop posting in your epic thread and wait it out until it's no longer newsworthy.


----------



## Melensdad

No need to stop posting. Of course it is just a virus that will do what viruses do and at some point it will all move along. I started this thread before it was newsworthy. Before the news anchors on TV ever heard about this virus.  In our lifetimes there has never been such an event that has the potential to affect as many people as this one seems to be having. No world war or virus has had the potential this one has and gotten this far.  Others have had unrealized potential.  None of us remember the 1910 flu.  Old as some members may be, I don't believe any served in WWII.  This one is clearly going out of control and may devistate the economies of the world in ways we have not seen.  Even in war there are good economies.


TWITTER closed their offices and told workers to telecommute.  https://www.cbsnews.com/news/twitter-coronavirus-employees-work-at-home-because-of-outbreak/

Great gig if you work there. 

But what about factory workers.  Literally hundreds of factories are currently closed due to the virus.  Tens of thousands of workers are not being paid.  Products that should be shipping to retailers are not being produced. Warehouse workers won’t be shipping orders.  Truck drivers won’t have freight.  Retail stores won’t have goods.  Economists are projecting all sorts of goods will be in short supply in April.  Starting mostly with electronics, clothes and toys.


----------



## Melensdad

Uh... 



> WHO officials make urgent plea for medical gear: ‘Supplies are rapidly depleting’
> 
> PUBLISHED TUE, MAR 3 202011:22 AM ESTUPDATED 11 MIN AGO
> 
> KEY POINTS
> 
> The WHO estimates that each month 89 million medical masks, 76 million examination gloves and 1.6 million goggles will be required for the COVID-19 response.
> 
> It said manufacturers need to increase personal protective gear supplies by 40% to meet the needs of the medical community.
> 
> World Health Organization officials called on medical supply manufacturers to “*urgently increase production*” to meet the global demand that is needed to respond to the COVID-19 outbreak rapidly spreading across the world



Full story at CNBC =>  https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/03/who...ical-gear-supplies-are-rapidly-depleting.html


----------



## Melensdad

WHO says coronavirus death rate is 3.4% globally, higher than previously thought


Link—> https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/03/who...-globally-higher-than-previously-thought.html



> World health officials said Tuesday the case fatality rate for COVID-19 is 3.4% globally, higher than previous estimates of about 2%.
> 
> “Globally, about 3.4% of reported COVID-19 cases have died,” WHO Director-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said during a press briefing at the agency’s headquarters in Geneva. In comparison, seasonal flu generally kills far fewer than 1% of those infected, he said.
> 
> The World Health Organization had said last week that the mortality rate of COVID-19 can differ, ranging from 0.7% to up to 4%, depending on the quality of the health-care system where it’s treated. Early in the outbreak, scientists had concluded the death rate was around 2.3%.
> 
> During a press briefing Monday, WHO officials said they don’t know how COVID-19 behaves, saying *it’s not like influenza...*


----------



## road squawker

Melensdad said:


> WOW
> 
> NOPE
> 
> NOT EVEN CLOSE
> 
> Last time I checked a tornado does not striker nations. They are very very localized events... edit.........



Many tornadoes are on the ground for over 200 miles


----------



## Melensdad

road squawker said:


> Many tornadoes are on the ground for over 200 miles



Which is nothing compared to the economic destruction in Wuhan from one virus.  There has been more economic damage to Wuhan than was caused by hurricane Katrina.  The difference is that the virus is didn’t stop there.  It’s now wreaking havoc in Italy, Japan and Korea.  60+ nations and counting.  

Nobody is trying to downplay the local destruction of a major storm, tornado or even hurricane.  However none of those has the power to dramatically affect the economics of the WORLD.  There is good reason to believe that the coronavirus will put some nations into economic recessions, good reason to forecast economic recession for the global economy too.  

This virus dwarfs the damage of a hurricane and hurricanes dwarf the damage caused by tornados.


----------



## bczoom

I haven't verified but saw this today:


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> WHO says coronavirus death rate is 3.4% globally, higher than previously thought
> 
> 
> Link—> https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/03/who...-globally-higher-than-previously-thought.html
> 
> ​



Just buy gauging the initial response in Wuhan I have felt since from the beginning it could go as high as 10% after making its way around the world into 3rd world countries with poor medical facilities and filthy conditions like Africa, South America etc. That is going to raise those statistics considerably. Also just read where it can survive on protected surfaces out of the sunlight for 4-6 weeks. Thats more than the time it takes for a shipment of goods to arrive from China.


----------



## marchplumber

Gettin closer to that "last book" one day at a time.................


I don't think ANY of it will be pretty, fun, or joyful.    Just sayin........................


----------



## Melensdad

As I've been saying, the world effects of this disease are going to take their toll.  It's not so much the number of people who will die.  It is the infectious nature of the disease and the disruption to the economy that are going to be taking their toll on daily life.

We know that thousands of factories are closed and production has ceased on many goods.  Other factories are only open with with very limited work crews and minimal production.  The shipping ports on the US west coast reported that inbound freight traffic slowed.  Major retailers and clothing manufacturers have indicated there will be product shortages in April.

But what about DRUG shortages and how those will affect everyday life?  Or medical supply shortages?  

Link to FULL story => https://www.city-journal.org/coronavirus-pharmaceuticals-production



> *The Virus and the Supply Chain*
> Coronavirus may or may not prove to be a health crisis in the U.S., but its impact on the production of pharmaceuticals could be serious.
> Joel Zinberg
> February 29, 2020 Health Care
> 
> The new coronavirus outbreak may be very bad for your health* but not only for the reasons you imagined. This coronavirus is less likely to harm you directly than to injure you through its impact on your other medical needs.*
> 
> ...
> 
> *COVID-19 is more likely to harm Americans indirectly because the U.S. is increasingly reliant on drugs either directly sourced from China or made from intermediate chemicals called Active Pharmaceutical Ingredients (APIs), or their chemical precursors, manufactured in China.* U.S. imports of Chinese pharmaceuticals increased 76 percent between 2010 and 2018. Similarly, imports of Chinese medical equipment increased 78 percent over the same period. U.S. producers source 80 percent of their APIs overseas, primarily from China; China is also the chief supplier of APIs for producers in other countries. This dominance is neither accidental nor the result of free markets—it is the consequence of Chinese government policies. The U.S.–China Economic & Security Review Commission recently concluded that “Government subsidies, a robust chemical industry, IP theft, lax environmental protections, and regulations favoring domestic companies contributed to China’s emergence as the world’s largest producer of APIs.”
> 
> While 90 percent of the finished drugs Americans take are generics, *most are manufactured overseas, primarily in India and China. *Even India, the world’s largest generics producer, relies on China for 80 percent of the APIs it uses in drug production. *Nearly all the antibiotics used in the U.S. come from China. *Some older antibiotics, like penicillin, are no longer made here; China controls worldwide penicillin production. In addition, a large amount of the personal protective equipment (PPE)—surgical gowns, gloves, masks and respirator protective devices—*used to stop the spread of coronavirus and other infectious diseases are manufactured in China*.
> 
> COVID-19 has resulted in massive disruption of Chinese manufacturing. It’s only a matter of time until this translates into supply disruptions for China-dependent customers. *The FDA has just reported the shortage of a certain drug due to coronavirus-related disruption at a manufacturing plant that produces the API used to make the drug.* The FDA is also monitoring 20 other drugs where the API or finished drug product is solely sourced from China.


----------



## m1west

First death in ca. Governor dick head declared a state of emergency.


----------



## mla2ofus

Gov dick head is a snowflake anyway. No more needs saying.
Mike


----------



## Melensdad

Again, just look at the ramifications to our society based on the scale of the effects ...

Projections are that 40-60% of the population will get Corona.  If 15% of those need to be hospitalized for 5 days each then we will need more hospitals.  

If we contain the virus by limiting public venue activities, close the universities, schools, theaters, sports stadiums, cancel conventions, etc then what is the economic effect to each of us?  Job losses, business closings, etc?

Sporting events without spectators are happening.  The Arnold Fencing Classic was expected to bring 25,000 people to Columbus, OH this weekend.  The competition will happen but the major expo, that part was cancelled.  The expo is (was) bigger than the competition.  And the competition will have no spectators beyond parents.  What are the economic ramifications to Columbus restaurants and hotels from the loss of income for just 1 weekend event?   Multiply that times the losses they will experience for the next several months.  Project those losses to every city with an active convention center around the county.  

Sure, this may not kill a lot of people but don’t dismiss the toll this will take to our communities.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

*Coronavirus Math: The Number I’m Watching*

_Most of our data has been supplied by unreliable China and Iran. What is the case fatality rate elsewhere?_


https://nofrakkingconsensus.com/2020/03/04/coronavirus-math-the-number-im-watching/

You probably shouldn't look at this link Bob.


----------



## Bamby

pirate_girl said:


> On the other hand, now 19 people dead from the tornado.
> Those who have possibly lost their homes, businesses may have been wiped out thus affecting jobs.
> Perspective.



There is a very real chance that as bad as it is the loses are likely insured. And peoples jobs who may have been displaced due to damage will likely be allowed to collect unemployment benefits. 

People who out of work due to illness or disease have always been pretty much shit out of luck once past some sick or vacation days one may lay claim on. Of course their is a tiny minority who may have bought into Aflack and may covered their butts, but I'd bet disability insurance rates are now through the roof if one could find someone to wright you coverage at all.


----------



## Melensdad

PBinWA said:


> *Coronavirus Math: The Number I’m Watching*
> 
> _Most of our data has been supplied by unreliable China and Iran. What is the case fatality rate elsewhere?_
> 
> 
> https://nofrakkingconsensus.com/2020/03/04/coronavirus-math-the-number-im-watching/
> 
> You probably shouldn't look at this link Bob.


Data is very incomplete and very preliminary.  Waaaay too early to draw any valuable conclusions from the data.  However we are now starting, just starting to get reasonable data from Italy.





Bamby said:


> There is a very real chance that as bad as it is the loses are likely insured. And peoples jobs who may have been displaced due to damage will likely be allowed to collect unemployment benefits.
> 
> *People who out of work due to illness or disease have always been pretty much shit out of luck once past some sick or vacation days one may lay claim on.* Of course their is a tiny minority who may have bought into Aflack and may covered their butts, but I'd bet disability insurance rates are now through the roof if one could find someone to wright you coverage at all.



Great perspective there Bamby.  And realistically building supplies will be shipped in from the lumber yards in the surrounding counties.  Health care workers will travel in from the surrounding counties.  Food will be shipped in overnight.

I often explain it local terms.  Think of a small church parish.  Mine brings in about $7000/week in the collection plates.  $28,000/month.  We have a mortgage on the property.  The priest needs his stipend for food, clothing, living expenses, etc.  Utility bills need to be paid to keep the heat and lights on.  Now what happens if the Bishops order the church services stopped for 1 to 3 months to curb the spread of the virus?  Bills continue, debt climbs but the income STOPS    Now if the dioceses has 50 parish churches spread across a 4 to 8 county area, and ALL of the parish churches are closed, then the income stream for the entire diocese STOPS.  No way for a parish in 1 town to help out the parish 2 towns away.  No way for the diocese to move money from the main Cathedral to a local church.  ALL income stops.


----------



## Melensdad

Seems like the virus is starting to pick up a lot of steam as it rolls around the world.  China's problems may have started burning out, as viruses tend to do.  They have only locked down 100,000,000 people for 3 months in their efforts to contain the virus.  

Now it looks like its the rest of the world's turn.  

My friends in Australia report their school is closed after a 16 year old boy tested positive.  He has also visited a retirement home to see his grandparents in the past few days so there is major concern in the retirement home.  

My sister reports that all the Indian Swaminarayan (SP?) temples in the UK and ALL of Europe have been ordered closed as of today.  The local temple in my area is still open.  Already reported are the closing of churches in Korea and parts of northern Italy.  

And ZeroHedge has a nice summary of the events around the world, which is a considerably longer list than has been published in recent days.  https://www.zerohedge.com/geopoliti...nd-reports-1st-death-global-coronavirus-cases

Summary:


San Francisco mayor reports first 2 cases in the city
New Jersey Lt. Gov confirms 2nd "presumptive" case
*NY state cases double *to 22
Washington state reports another 20 cases
Palestinian territories confirm 7 cases
*Seattle closes 26 schools*
Pentagon tracking 12 possible COVID-19 cases
*35 passengers aboard 'Grand Princess' showing flu-like symptoms*
Another senior Iranian figure dies
Illinois reports 5 more cases
NYC reports 2 more cases, raising total to 4
Italy postpones referendum vote; death toll hits 148
*WHO's Tedros: "Now's the time to pull out the stops"*
Tennessee confirms case
Nevada confirms first case
New Delhi closes primary schools
EU officials weigh pushing retired health-care workers back into service to combat virus
Italy to ask EU for permission to raise budget deficit as lawmakers approve €7.5 billion euros
Beijing tells residents not to share food
30-year-old Chinese man dies in Wuhan 5 days after hospital discharge
*Cali authorities tell 'Grand Princess' cruise ship not to return to port until everyone is tested*
Global case total passes 95k
Lebanon sees cases double to 31
*France deaths climb to 7, cases up 138 to 423*
EY sends 1,500 Madrid employees home after staffer catches virus
Trump says he has a "hunch" true virus mortality rate is closer to 1%
Switzerland reports 1st death
South Africa confirms 1st case
*UK chief medical officer confirms 'human-to-human' infections are happening in UK*
UK case total hits 115
*Google, Apple, Netflix cancel events*
HSBC sends research department and part of London trading floor home
Facebook contract infected in Seattle
*Microsoft, Google, Amazon, Netflix cancel events and/or ask employees to work from home*
Netherlands cases double to 82
Spain cases climb 40, 1 new death
*Belgium reports 27 new cases bringing total to 50*
*Germany adds 87 cases bringing total to 349*

Of note are some Twitter 'tweets' below from various accounts.  *The head of the WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION seems alarmed.*  Perhaps now is time to take this seriously?  Or do we continue to downplay this?  

Also interesting to note how many hotel stays have been cancelled in San Francisco.  150,000 nights worth.  For a city that uses tourism as one of its major economic engines, and doesn't have a native population large enough to support the thousands of restaurants (and restaurant jobs) the loss of hotel revenue is going to cost them millions, tens of millions of dollars in lost revenues and probably will lead to hospitality job losses in retail, hotel and restaurant sectors.  The city will be adding 3 more lost nights due to me cancelling a trip.  I was planning to attend a fencing coaching conference in the city in 2 weeks.  I cancelled my trip.  I suspect that the 150,000 nights lost due to cancellations is ONLY THE BEGINNING and it will be exponentially higher by the time this virus is finished.


----------



## waybomb

I guess I'm not gettin' it.
Just think if this much effort were spent to contain the common flu.
We'd be stone age.
But we'll just let 35,000 people a year die from complications with the flu.


----------



## Melensdad

Link to story—> https://apnews.com/435cb3786f0d6692c8143a07e29c3e79

WHO shouts out an alert to all nations.  



> *‘This is not a drill’: WHO urges the world to fight virus*
> 
> 
> BANGKOK (AP) — The global march of the new virus triggered a vigorous appeal Thursday from the World Health Organization for governments to pull out “all the stops” to slow the epidemic, as it drained color from India’s spring festivities, closed Bethlehem’s Nativity Church and blocked Italians from visiting elderly relatives in nursing homes.
> 
> As China, after many arduous weeks, appeared to be winning its epic, costly battle against the new virus, the fight was revving up in newly affected areas of the globe, unleashing disruptions that profoundly impacted billions of people.
> 
> The U.N. health agency urged all countries to “push this virus back,” a call to action reinforced by figures showing about 17 times as many new infections outside China as in it. The virus has infected nearly 98,000 people and killed over 3,300.
> 
> “This is not a drill. This is not the time for giving up. This is not a time for excuses. This is a time for pulling out all the stops,” WHO Director-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said in Geneva. “Countries have been planning for scenarios like this for decades. Now is the time to act on those plans.”
> 
> As Chinese manufacturers gradually reopened their factories, anti-virus barriers went up elsewhere.
> 
> In Italy, the epicenter of Europe’s outbreak, workers in latex gloves pinned “closed” notices on school gates, enforcing a 10-day shutdown of the education system. Italy’s sports-mad fans are also barred from stadiums until April 3.
> 
> A government decree that took effect Thursday urged the country’s famously demonstrative citizens to stay at least 1 meter (3 feet) apart from each other, placed restrictions on visiting nursing homes and urged the elderly not to go outside unless absolutely necessary.
> 
> That directive appeared to be widely ignored, as school closures nationwide left many Italian children in the care of their grandparents. Parks in Rome overflowed with young and old, undercutting government efforts to shield older Italians from the virus that hits the elderly harder than others. Italy has the world’s oldest population after Japan.
> 
> “It’s an absolute paradox!” said Mauro Benedetti, a 73-year-old retiree called upon to watch his grandson. “They tell us to stay home. How can we help our kids and grandkids at the same time?”
> 
> “Grandparents are now at risk,” he said.
> 
> ...








waybomb said:


> I guess I'm not gettin' it.
> Just think if this much effort were spent to contain the common flu.
> We'd be stone age.
> But we'll just let 35,000 people a year die from complications with the flu.


If this is as contagious as they say then 40-60% of all Americans will get it.  Most will be fairly mild to moderate cases.  15% will end up in the hospital.  

If 15% of 40% of the population needs to be hospitalized, as is projected from experience in China, then every hospital bed in the country will have a corona patient filling it and there will be sick people on gurneys in the hallways and probably the streets too.  We’d need to build more hospitals.

If you don’t think that will lead to an economic apocalypse I’m not sure what will convince you.


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> Link to story—> https://apnews.com/435cb3786f0d6692c8143a07e29c3e79
> 
> WHO shouts out an alert to all nations.
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If this is as contagious as they say then 40-60% of all Americans will get it.  Most will be fairly mild to moderate cases.  15% will end up in the hospital.
> 
> If 15% of 40% of the population needs to be hospitalized, as is projected from experience in China, then every hospital bed in the country will have a corona patient filling it and there will be sick people on gurneys in the hallways and probably the streets too.  We’d need to build more hospitals.
> 
> If you don’t think that will lead to an economic apocalypse I’m not sure what will convince you.



I think the masses are behind the curve on the financial impact.


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> I think the masses are behind the curve on the financial impact.



Each action is like a little ripple in the water when a pebble is dropped into a pond. And so it is with the new WORK FROM HOME trend that many companies are adopting ... and schools are enacting e-Learning where teachers and students each teach/study at home.  Business conventions are cancelled.  Conferences are turning into tele-conferences.  

And so commuter traffic is down.  And projected to drop further.  Airline traffic is dropping fast and moving toward post 9/11 levels of non-travel.  

Starbucks apparently crunched some numbers.  *They are now advising shareholders that sales will be down over $400,000,000 due to Coronavirus. * Lower sales = lower staffing needs.  Lower staffing needs = fewer workers getting hours.  Fewer hours = lower paychecks.  Lower paychecks = less spending on non-essential goods.  Less spending = recession. 

Now if Starbucks is projecting that type of sales loss, what will other stores see?  How will those losses affect Main Street in your town?


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> Each action is like a little ripple in the water when a pebble is dropped into a pond. And so it is with the new WORK FROM HOME trend that many companies are adopting ... and schools are enacting e-Learning where teachers and students each teach/study at home.  Business conventions are cancelled.  Conferences are turning into tele-conferences.
> 
> And so commuter traffic is down.  And projected to drop further.  Airline traffic is dropping fast and moving toward post 9/11 levels of non-travel.
> 
> Starbucks apparently crunched some numbers.  *They are now advising shareholders that sales will be down over $400,000,000 due to Coronavirus. * Lower sales = lower staffing needs.  Lower staffing needs = fewer workers getting hours.  Fewer hours = lower paychecks.  Lower paychecks = less spending on non-essential goods.  Less spending = recession.
> 
> Now if Starbucks is projecting that type of sales loss, what will other stores see?  How will those losses affect Main Street in your town?



You don't have to convince me, Restraunts, movie theaters ,sporting events. the list can go on forever. Even my little company  being in food processing ( canned food ) on one hand this could be good for my business when the food hoarding gets going and on the other hand the manufacturing facilities I work in are very loud like most manufacturing with ear plugs everyone when they talk its in each others face inches away. Historically when any cold or flu comes around everyone in the plant gets it. So at some point are people going to be afraid to go to work? What about money (banks). some business are going to make a killing like hand sanitizer, masks, medical equipment etc. and others already mentioned are not. On a whole it won't be good.


----------



## JimVT

to curb the spread our local  federal forest office in Washington state, mount baker Snoqualmie national forest in our town cancelled pemit to a large snow poker run. it usually has up to 300 people on snowmobiles. for march 7.  and then told us of a forest users meeting on Monday is cancelled


----------



## Bamby

m1west said:


> You don't have to convince me, Restraunts, movie theaters ,sporting events. the list can go on forever. Even my little company  being in food processing ( canned food ) on one hand this could be good for my business when the food hoarding gets going and on the other hand the manufacturing facilities





Melensdad said:


> Each action is like a little ripple in the water when a pebble is dropped into a pond. And so it is with the new WORK FROM HOME trend that many companies are adopting ... and schools are enacting e-Learning where teachers and students each teach/study at home.  Business conventions are cancelled.  Conferences are turning into tele-conferences.
> 
> And so commuter traffic is down.  And projected to drop further.  Airline traffic is dropping fast and moving toward post 9/11 levels of non-travel.
> 
> Starbucks apparently crunched some numbers.  *They are now advising shareholders that sales will be down over $400,000,000 due to Coronavirus. * Lower sales = lower staffing needs.  Lower staffing needs = fewer workers getting hours.  Fewer hours = lower paychecks.  Lower paychecks = less spending on non-essential goods.  Less spending = recession.
> 
> Now if Starbucks is projecting that type of sales loss, what will other stores see?  How will those losses affect Main Street in your town?



You all are addressing the very real problem but in reality blaming the wrong cause. All the above is something we've been forced to address as a nation long before Corona made the scene.

We are no longer the prosperous rich country with the most current up to date manufacturing facilities and a talented enough work force to keep the production rolling. We used to be all that and more but as the production lines got antiquated to the point profits could no longer be made the decision was made to abandon the old facilities to be a future brownfield to become a future taxpayer subsidized cleanup project.

Maybe to avoid liabilities to the waste they left in their wake but also seeking lower production costs most everyone took up shop overseas where both life and labor is cheep.

I see where there is some concern about the poor Starbucks employee being tossed out of work and how their lose of income is going to affect their community. Anyone working at fast food or Starbucks ain't got any disposable income to effect much of anything. If anything they're also being subsidized by the government somehow. Food service never was meant to support a family. What is best at was developing work ethics for future employment where a person could earn a honest median family income.

I also see work from home as a very viable trend that should have already been utilized. Imagine the congestion that could be removed from the roads thus making the roads safer for the people who still have to show up for work. .....


----------



## Melensdad

So it looks like a lot more to not really worry about but things are certainly starting to accelerate around the globe.

PERSONAL OBSERVATION:  The lovely Mrs_Bob and I were at O'Hare International Airport this morning dropping off Melen to send her off to North Carolina for the weekend.  She has a wedding shower to attend.  The airport was like a ghost town.  This is one of the top 3 busiest airports in the world and it was nearly empty.  I pulled the car right up to the door, the main passenger check in area had so few passengers that you could have held the world bowling championships and not hit any passengers with bowling balls.  It was bizarre.  Truly bizarre. 



Here is a summary of headlines from ZeroHedge:
Summary:


15th US death reported in WA.
CDC has tested fewer than 2,000 Americans, Atlantic reports
15 more patients from Kirkland nursing home hospitalized
2nd LAX screener tests positive
LA County confirms another 2 cases, bringing total to 13
Germany reports 90 new cases to 534
Saudi Arabia suspends sports events starting Saturday
U. of Washington will move all classes online for rest of semester
McDonald's cancels franchisee convention
Iraqi officials report third death
LatAm airline employee confirmed as Peru's first coronavirus case
Houston area confirms 6th case
Italy reports another 678 cases
Gap closes NYC office
New York cases climb to 33
Baggage handler at Heathrow tests positive
Madrid closes old folks homes
5 schools close in PA.
Trump visit to CDC is back on
WHO: "false hope" that virus will disappear when summer arrives
WHO: We don't know mortality rate
Kudlow: "Buy stocks"
2nd death in UK, cases hit 163; France reports 2 new deaths bringing total to 9
French total cases hits 577
Egypt reports 12 cases aboard cruise ship on the Nile
2,733 asked to voluntarily quarantine in NYC
Trump scraps trip to CDC
Switzerland, the Netherlands report 1st deaths
Slovakia only country in Europe without coronavirus
Russia accuses Italy of spreading virus
Singapore reports 13 new cases, largest one-day jump since outbreak began
US case total: 234
South Korea, Japan feud over virus
Microsoft, Adidas, Lockheed say at least 1 employee has contracted virus
China claims it can have vaccine ready by April
Pompeo says China withheld information, leaving US "behind the curve"

On Monday of this week, DR MIKE RYAN, executive director of W.H.O.s health emergency program said:


> _“Here we have a disease for which we have no vaccine, no treatment, we don’t fully understand transmission, we don’t fully understand case mortality, but what we have been genuinely heartened by is that unlike influenza, where countries have fought back, where they’ve put in place strong measures, we’ve remarkably seen that the virus is suppressed,”_




Now just for the fun of it I'll put up a couple of charts.  Keep in mind that the data indicates that 40% to 60% of the entire US population will get the Corona virus.  CNN is now saying that the "elderly with serious underlying conditions" should be concerned.  Roughly 15% of the cases are considered severe, and 85% are considered mild too moderate.  The severe cases require hospitalization.  Assuming a population of 350 Million, and assuming 150 Million get Corona, and assuming 15% of those 150 Million get severe cases requiring hospitalization that means we need *22.5 Million hospital beds *for those people.  

From BLOOMBERG News, *the horizontal bar graph* posted below is comparing the COVID 19/Corona virus to other illnesses.  Many people, some media sources, etc use this type of data to downplay the disease (_despite the real news from the W.H.O. and C.D.C. that seem to indicate there is a problem_).

From BUSINESS INSIDER, *the vertical bar graph* posted below shows the death rates of those infected, by age group, of the flu versus the Covid-19.  This is the type of data that many people overlook.


----------



## m1west

We now have 2 self quarantining at home in our little county of a few thousand people. Man and wife went on a Cruze to Mexico last month and people tested positive on that trip. They have not been tested and are not showing signs of illness.


----------



## EastTexFrank

Thanks Bob.  At last some useful information.


----------



## JimVT

i wouldn't want to be flying now. i see an advertisement for coronavirus free flights.
https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/avo/d/seattle-coronavirus-free-aircraft/7085406492.html

I took the wife with her broken wrist to the doctor  Wednesday and a large sign on the door . do not enter if sick.
yesterday she had it fixed with screws or pins and a small plate. a very common brake or fracture and surgery.   the out patent surgery was one other person in the waiting room.
overall empty . grocery stores are full 
were s.e. of seattle 35 miles.


----------



## Melensdad

Dr John Campbell, in Australia, in his health blog, indicates that the UK and the USA are the two worst prepared nations of the western developed nations affected by Covid-19.  Not sure really why he is saying that, he puts out 2 video blogs per day, I have not sifted through enough of them to understand his theory.

But this article from THE ATLANTIC is pretty mind blowing.  Is it possible the US has tested less than 2000 people?  

Full story => https://www.theatlantic.com/health/...s/607597/?preview=3-4FLneYp3QF4ooMLWUN_KtUiR8


> *Exclusive: The Strongest Evidence Yet That America Is Botching Coronavirus Testing*
> “I don’t know what went wrong,” a former CDC chief told The Atlantic.
> 
> Updated at 4:07 p.m. E.T. on Friday, March 6, 2020.
> 
> It’s one of the most urgent questions in the United States right now: How many people have actually been tested for the coronavirus?
> 
> This number would give a sense of how widespread the disease is, and how forceful a response to it the United States is mustering. But for days, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has refused to publish such a count, despite public anxiety and criticism from Congress. On Monday, Stephen Hahn, the commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration, estimated that “by the end of this week, close to a million tests will be able to be performed” in the United States. On Wednesday, Vice President Mike Pence promised that “roughly 1.5 million tests” would be available this week.
> 
> But the number of tests performed across the country has fallen far short of those projections, despite extraordinarily high demand, The Atlantic has found.
> 
> “The CDC got this right with H1N1 and Zika, and produced huge quantities of test kits that went around the country,” Thomas Frieden, the director of the CDC from 2009 to 2017, told us. “I don’t know what went wrong this time.”
> 
> Through interviews with dozens of public-health officials and a survey of local data from across the country, *The Atlantic could only verify that 1,895 people have been tested for the coronavirus in the United States...*








EastTexFrank said:


> Thanks Bob.  At last some useful information.


I've been trying to provide it. 

It is even more telling if you look at mortality by age by nation.  Some nations have much higher mortality than others by age.  That said, its hell if you get this and you are old and sick.


----------



## EastTexFrank

Well, I'm old!  And I have some of the old person problems.  Nah!  I've had two Scotch so I'm immortal and invincible.


----------



## Melensdad

My summary this morning, which is just a supplement to the ZeroHedge summary:


Stanford University is cancelling classes and switching to "on-line" learning.  
High school districts in some of the American 'hot zones' (Washington area, Boston area) have closed schools.
21 people on the Grand Princess crew ship tested positive for the Covid 19 ... the ship is 20 miles off the coast being helped(?) by the US Coast Guard
Grand Princess will dock in a "non-commercial port" and people will be offloaded and quarantined.  
24 states now have cases of Covid-19 but many states, like Indiana, do *not* have any known 'community spread'
CDC doesn't not have enough test kits
Airlines expect to lose $63 Billion in revenues
Cities are cancelling festivals
Spectators are being banned from an increasing number of sporting events including NCAA Basketball and USA Fencing
Only selected hospitals have Covid 19 tests 
Groceries and supplies in the USA seem to be very widely available.  There are nationwide shortages of very few items, face masks are 1 of those items.

It should be noted the POPE/VATICAN have cancelled gatherings:


*The Holy See press office just released the following statement (translated from Italian):*

"With regard to the events of the coming days, the prayer of the Angelus of the Holy Father on Sunday 8 March will take place from the Library of the Apostolic Palace and not in the square, from the window. The prayer will be streamed live by Vatican News and on screens in St. Peter's Square and distributed by Vatican Media to the media who will request it, so as to allow the participation of the faithful. The General Audience on Wednesday, March 11 will be held in the same manner. These choices are necessary in order to avoid the risk of diffusion of the COVID-19 due to the gathering during the security controls for access to the square, as also requested by the Italian authorities. In compliance with the provisions of the Health and Hygiene Directorate of the Vatican City State, the participation of the faithful guests in the Masses in Santa Marta will be suspended until Sunday 15 March. The Holy Father will celebrate the Eucharist privately."​



So based on the FLU vs the COVID 19 graphs above I present this.  Published in the CDC's U.S. Weekly Influenza Surveillance Report:



> The number of people who have died from seasonal influenza so far has now reached 20,000, including 136 influenza-associated deaths in children, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) reported as of February 29.
> 
> This is up from 18,000 just a week ago.
> 
> “This number [of children] is higher for the same time period than in every season since reporting began in 2004-05, except for the 2009 pandemic,” the CDC reported.
> 
> As the world gears up to battle the coronavirus, which has killed more than 3,460 worldwide, including 13 deaths in the United States in the state of Washington, the CDC is engaged in its usual battle to inform people about influenza and its dangers:
> 
> ... The best way to prevent flu is by getting vaccinated each year.
> 
> “CDC estimates that so far this season there have been at least 34 million flu illnesses, 350,000 hospitalizations and 20,000 deaths from flu,” the CDC’s Weekly U.S. Influenza Surveillance Report said.



So the Flu has put 360,000 AMERICANS in the hospital so far this season.  Give it the benefit of the doubt and assume before the season ends we see an additional 100,000 go into hospital beds for the seasonal flu.  *That would put 450,000 US citizens in the hospital this season for the seasonal flu.  *

No putting that into perspective with Covid 19.  

360 Million Americans, 40% of those get the Covid 19 = 145 Million with Covid 19. _ It should be noted that Harvard virus researcher are suggesting 40-60% of Americans will get this, and a WHO infectious disease doctor suggested 40-70% is reasonable.  So I'm using the LOWEST number from both._  Data suggests 15% of the sick will end up in the hospital.  *That puts somewhere around 22,000,000 US citizens in the hospital for the Covid-19 virus.  * The scales of this is nearly incomprehensible.  

The goal of the CDC and the WHO is to SLOW DOWN disease so several things can be accomplished.  

1) develop treatments to reduce the severity so fewer go into the hospital
2) develop vaccines so some % of the population can avoid getting Covid 19
3) slowing the progression also allows for some people to recover before others get sick so the load on the hospital system is spread over a longer timeline with less of a crushing load


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> ....
> So based on the FLU vs the COVID 19 graphs above I present this.  Published in the CDC's U.S. Weekly Influenza Surveillance Report:
> 
> 
> 
> So the Flu has put 360,000 AMERICANS in the hospital so far this season.  Give it the benefit of the doubt and assume before the season ends we see an additional 100,000 go into hospital beds for the seasonal flu.  *That would put 450,000 US citizens in the hospital this season for the seasonal flu.  *
> 
> No putting that into perspective with Covid 19.
> 
> 360 Million Americans, 40% of those get the Covid 19 = 145 Million with Covid 19. _ It should be noted that Harvard virus researcher are suggesting 40-60% of Americans will get this, and a WHO infectious disease doctor suggested 40-70% is reasonable.  So I'm using the LOWEST number from both._  Data suggests 15% of the sick will end up in the hospital.  *That puts somewhere around 22,000,000 US citizens in the hospital for the Covid-19 virus.  * The scales of this is nearly incomprehensible.
> 
> The goal of the CDC and the WHO is to SLOW DOWN disease so several things can be accomplished.
> 
> 1) develop treatments to reduce the severity so fewer go into the hospital
> 2) develop vaccines so some % of the population can avoid getting Covid 19
> 3) slowing the progression also allows for some people to recover before others get sick so the load on the hospital system is spread over a longer timeline with less of a crushing load



So Its not so much the mortality rate, its the high rate of transmission even with a fraction that will need a hospital bed it will overwhelm the system to the point where some people will not get treatment and sent home like in Wuhan.


----------



## Melensdad

And then there is this:



> https://www.cbssports.com/college-b...nt-games-at-johns-hopkins-due-to-coronavirus/
> 
> 
> While much is still unknown about the virus, a group of Australian experts have estimated that the virus may have severe consequences on global gross domestic product.
> 
> New modeling from The Australian National University looks at seven scenarios of how the outbreak might affect the world's wealth, ranging from low severity to high severity.
> 
> *In the low-severity model — or best-case scenario of the seven* — ANU researchers estimate a global GDP loss of $2.4 trillion, with* an estimated death toll of 15 million.*







Johns Hopkins University is banning spectators from the NCAA Basketball Tournament they are holding on their campus.  Players will play their games in empty arenas.  

https://www.cbssports.com/college-b...nt-games-at-johns-hopkins-due-to-coronavirus/

So without posting the story, *just think about the economic ramifications* from this.  How much POPCORN, soda, beer, hotdogs and giant pretzels won't be sold.  How many food service employees just lost their jobs?  

How many T-Shirt, team jersey and souvenir trinkets won't be sold?  And the people who rely on making those things and selling those things for jobs who won't get paid.  

How many hotel bookings just got cancelled?  How many hospitality workers will be sent home because the hotels are nearly empty?  How many restaurants that rely on the throngs of fans to fill their tables won't be serving meals?  Safe to say that tens of millions of dollars will not make it to the Baltimore economy because of this announcement.  

Again, look at the ripple effect to the economy.  I know of 3 major conventions that cancelled in Chicago just this week alone.  

USA Fencing sent out notices yesterday that March through July events, currently scheduled, will take place as planned ... but they reserve the right to cancel or modify the plans based on the Covid 19 updates.  A typical national level event will draw 2000-3000 competitors, plus parents, coaches, etc.  So even a small event will bring 10,000 people to a mid-sized city's convention center.  While a big event can bring upwards of 40-50,000 people into town.  And NCAA Basketball tournaments dwarf the size of fencing events.


----------



## Bannedjoe

Not sure how to approach or battle this.
I think if I have to go out in public, I'll just taze anyone that gets within 10 feet of me.


----------



## Melensdad

From a presentation to the American Hospital Association:

Maybe just a 1/2 Million deaths?   Almost 5 Million in the hospital?  96 Million infected.  Certainly a better scenario than the low estimate of 40% infected.  Certainly a much lower estimate than the Australians scenario.  

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...FFuwed0LCM3GkgXAYecANpxoGyACH1bZYKWYlG1RiNh60



> Almost half a million (480,000) Americans are expected to die from coronavirus
> 4.8 million will be hospitalized and 96 million infected
> Figures come from leaked slides from a presentation by Dr. James Lawler, a University of Nebraska Medical Center professor and hosted by AHA
> They show the spread of the deadly disease could be far worse than officials claim, with the crisis 10 times greater than a severe flu season
> The shock figures fly in the face of claims made by President Trump who has maintained on many occasions that the risk to Americans is 'low'
> Lawler estimated people with heart conditions have a one in 10 chance of dying from the disease, compared to less than one in a 100 among healthy individuals
> Trump signed a spending bill to allocate $8.3 billion to tackle the crisis Friday
> US has around 300 cases and 17 confirmed deaths, after Florida confirmed its first two deaths Friday


----------



## Melensdad

Warning this is some seriously scary number crunching here.  Not trying to spread fear around, but rather just pointing out that this could get really ugly for people who are in the high risk categories.  Oh, and *don't look at the graphic at the bottom* either, it compares the seasonal 2019 Flu to the Covid-19.  

But this graphic from the American Hospital Association is enlightening.








Below, is a projection that uses simple exponential modeling, with the experiences from Italy as the basis for the numbers.

The lady who did this is a Biologist/PHD who is not a modeling expert.  She is a food expert working at a food company and just worked out the math.  But it is not a heck of a lot different than some of the other things we've seen.  Just sort of breaks it down into steps.

https://twitter.com/LizSpecht/status/1236152102310653952


I think most people aren’t aware of the risk of systemic healthcare failure due to #COVID19 because they simply haven’t run the numbers yet. Let’s talk math. 
Let’s conservatively assume that there are 2,000 current cases in the US today, March 6th. This is about 8x the number of confirmed (lab-diagnosed) cases. We know there is substantial under-Dx due to lack of test kits; I’ll address implications later of under-/over-estimate. 
We can expect that we’ll continue to see a doubling of cases every 6 days (this is a typical doubling time across several epidemiological studies). Here I mean *actual* cases. Confirmed cases may appear to rise faster in the short term due to new test kit rollouts.
We’re looking at about 1M US cases by the end of April, 2M by ~May 5, 4M by ~May 11, and so on. Exponentials are hard to grasp, but this is how they go.
As the healthcare system begins to saturate under this case load, it will become increasingly hard to detect, track, and contain new transmission chains. In absence of extreme interventions, this likely won’t slow significantly until hitting >>1% of susceptible population.
What does a case load of this size mean for healthcare system? We’ll examine just two factors — hospital beds and masks — among many, many other things that will be impacted.
The US has about 2.8 hospital beds per 1000 people. With a population of 330M, this is ~1M beds. At any given time, 65% of those beds are already occupied. That leaves about 330k beds available nationwide (perhaps a bit fewer this time of year with regular flu season, etc).
Let’s trust Italy’s numbers and assume that about 10% of cases are serious enough to require hospitalization. (Keep in mind that for many patients, hospitalization lasts for *weeks* — in other words, turnover will be *very* slow as beds fill with COVID19 patients).
By this estimate, by about May 8th, all open hospital beds in the US will be filled. (This says nothing, of course, about whether these beds are suitable for isolation of patients with a highly infectious virus.)
If we’re wrong by a factor of two regarding the fraction of severe cases, that only changes the timeline of bed saturation by 6 days in either direction. If 20% of cases require hospitalization, we run out of beds by ~May 2nd.
If only 5% of cases require it, we can make it until ~May 14th. 2.5% gets us to May 20th. This, of course, assumes that there is no uptick in demand for beds from *other* (non-COVID19) causes, which seems like a dubious assumption.
As healthcare system becomes increasingly burdened, Rx shortages, etc, people w/ chronic conditions that are normally well-managed may find themselves slipping into severe states of medical distress requiring intensive care & hospitalization. But let’s ignore that for now.
Alright, so that’s beds. Now masks. Feds say we have a national stockpile of 12M N95 masks and 30M surgical masks (which are not ideal, but better than nothing).
There are about 18M healthcare workers in the US. Let’s assume only 6M HCW are working on any given day. (This is likely an underestimate as most people work most days of the week, but again, I’m playing conservative at every turn.)
As COVID19 cases saturate virtually every state and county, which seems likely to happen any day now, it will soon be irresponsible for all HCWs to not wear a mask. These HCWs would burn through N95 stockpile in 2 days if each HCW only got ONE mask per day.
One per day would be neither sanitary nor pragmatic, though this is indeed what we saw in Wuhan, with HCWs collapsing on their shift from dehydration because they were trying to avoid changing their PPE suits as they cannot be reused.
How quickly could we ramp up production of new masks? Not very fast at all. The vast majority are manufactured overseas, almost all in China. Even when manufactured here in US, the raw materials are predominantly from overseas... again, predominantly from China.
Keep in mind that all countries globally will be going through the exact same crises and shortages simultaneously. We can’t force trade in our favor.
Now consider how these 2 factors – bed and mask shortages – compound each other’s severity. Full hospitals + few masks + HCWs running around between beds without proper PPE = very bad mix.
HCWs are already getting infected even w/ access to full PPE. In the face of PPE limitations this severe, it’s only a matter of time. HCWs will start dropping from the workforce for weeks at a time, leading to a shortage of HCWs that then further compounds both issues above.
We could go on and on about thousands of factors – # of ventilators, or even simple things like saline drip bags. You see where this is going.
Importantly, I cannot stress this enough: even if I’m wrong – even VERY wrong – about core assumptions like % of severe cases or current case #, it only changes the timeline by days or weeks. This is how exponential growth in an immunologically naïve population works.
Undeserved panic does no one any good. But neither does ill-informed complacency. It’s wrong to assuage the public by saying “only 2% will die.” People aren’t adequately grasping the national and global systemic burden wrought by this swift-moving of a disease.
I’m an engineer. This is what my mind does all day: I run back-of-the-envelope calculations to try to estimate order-of-magnitude impacts. I’ve been on high alarm about this disease since ~Jan 19 after reading clinical indicators in the first papers emerging from Wuhan.
Nothing in the last 6 weeks has dampened my alarm in the slightest. To the contrary, we’re seeing abject refusal of many countries to adequately respond or prepare. Of course some of these estimates will be wrong, even substantially wrong.
But I have no reason to think they’ll be orders-of-magnitude wrong. Even if your personal risk of death is very, very low, don’t mock decisions like canceling events or closing workplaces as undue “panic”.
These measures are the bare minimum we should be doing to try to shift the peak – to slow the rise in cases so that healthcare systems are less overwhelmed. Each day that we can delay an extra case is a big win for the HC system.
And yes, you really should prepare to buckle down for a bit. All services and supply chains will be impacted. Why risk the stress of being ill-prepared?
Worst case, I’m massively wrong and you now have a huge bag of rice and black beans to burn through over the next few months and enough Robitussin to trip out.
One more thought: you’ve probably seen multiple respected epidemiologists have estimated that 20-70% of world will be infected within the next year. If you use 6-day doubling rate I mentioned above, we land at ~2-6 billion infected by sometime in July of this year.
Obviously I think the doubling time will start to slow once a sizeable fraction of the population has been infected, simply because of herd immunity and a smaller susceptible population.
But take the scenarios above (full beds, no PPE, etc, at just 1% of the US population infected) and stretch them out over just a couple extra months.
That timeline roughly fits with consensus end-game numbers from these highly esteemed epidemiologists. Again, we’re talking about discrepancies of mere days or weeks one direction or another, but not disagreements in the overall magnitude of the challenge.
This is not some hypothetical, fear-mongering, worst-case scenario. This is reality, as far as anyone can tell with the current available data.
That’s all for now. Standard disclaimers apply: I’m a PhD biologist but *not* an epidemiologist. Thoughts my own. Yadda yadda. Stay safe out there. /end



May also want to take a look at this, agains some more seriously scary numbers:

https://twitter.com/trvrb/status/1236097553520660483


----------



## mla2ofus

Maybe I'm overly optimistic but in about 3 wks I'll be 73, recovering smoker, didn't get a flu shot, caught and recovered from the flu with only over the counter medication(EmergenC).So I may be mistakenly thinking my immune system is about as strong as possible at this point in time, so if the virus makes it's way into our little podunk town I guess I'll just have to depend on my wellbeing and lady luck!!
Mike


----------



## NorthernRedneck

Our diocese for our church issued a response to the Corona virus. 

-we do a common communion cup where everyone takes a sip of wine from the cup. It's wiped in between each person. They're still doing it but it's optional to drink from it. 

-during the peace, no more shaking hands. Instead we can look at the person and just say the peace. 

-the minister will no longer be shaking hands with anyone following the service. 

All this is precautionary as we have many older people who attend.


----------



## Melensdad

Our church is still doing the shaking of hands for the sign of peace, technically it has always been optional.  I suspect our priest will be saying something, he mentioned last Sunday that people who are sick with anything should refrain.

We also do the communal cup for wine.

On a different subject, the Centers for Disease Control said older & high risk people should stock up on supplies and stay at home:   CDC says "older" and "high risk" people should stock up and stay home.

LINK ==> https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/specific-groups/high-risk-complications.html


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> Warning this is some seriously scary number crunching here.  Not trying to spread fear around, but rather just pointing out that this could get really ugly for people who are in the high risk categories.  Oh, and *don't look at the graphic at the bottom* either, it compares the seasonal 2019 Flu to the Covid-19.
> 
> ....
> 
> May also want to take a look at this, agains some more seriously scary numbers:
> 
> https://twitter.com/trvrb/status/1236097553520660483



Now it even gets better, WHO is now saying that it has mutated or there is 2 different strains. Im looking for more information but could explain why some get it bad and some don't.


----------



## Lyndon

*150000 people die every day on this planet, 56 million a year. Worrying about a problem won't help. It also won't solve the problem. If you can do something about it, do that. By propagating a scare one becomes part of the problem.**Eat good and Exercise, you'll be fine*


----------



## m1west

Lyndon said:


> *150000 people die every day on this planet, 56 million a year. Worrying about a problem won't help. It also won't solve the problem. If you can do something about it, do that. By propagating a scare one becomes part of the problem.**Eat good and Exercise, you'll be fine*



Sharing information with others that may help them IS doing something about it.


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> Sharing information with others that may help them IS doing something about it.



Agreed.  

Nothing here is posted to scare.  All is posted to inform and share information.  We are all in different areas.  All in different stages of life.  Of different faiths. Of different political beliefs.  But all in the same lifeboat.


----------



## waybomb

Seasonal flu kills 300,000 to 600,000 worldwide every year.


This thing is blown way out of proportion.


The shorts on wall street took advantage of bad news and made it way worse.


----------



## m1west

waybomb said:


> Seasonal flu kills 300,000 to 600,000 worldwide every year.
> 
> 
> This thing is blown way out of proportion.
> 
> 
> The shorts on wall street took advantage of bad news and made it way worse.



I thing the problem is going to be where the transmission rate is much higher than the Flu. So even if a small percent get it in a bad way it will still overwhelm the system and people could be turned away just like in China. When that happens it will create a panic.


----------



## tiredretired

I'm of the opinion this is over blown.  In the end we will find this will be only marginally worse than the regular flu.  

Thousand upon thousands of people are dying of the regular flu every week and no one give a shit.   One person contracts COVID19 and it is the lead story in the news.  

I am doing the exact same thing I do during peak regular flu season:

1.  Stop eating out.
2.  Run errands early in the day.
3.  Wash hands frequently and try not to touch your face.  
4.  Be stocked and prepared to stay at home if a infectious wave rolls through the community.  
5.  Be prepared to kiss your ass goodbye.  :th_lmao:


----------



## JimVT

TiredRetired said:


> I'm of the opinion this is over blown.  In the end we will find this will be only marginally worse than the regular flu.
> 
> Thousand upon thousands of people are dying of the regular flu every week and no one give a shit.   One person contracts COVID19 and it is the lead story in the news.
> 
> I am doing the exact same thing I do during peak regular flu season:
> 
> 1.  Stop eating out.
> 2.  Run errands early in the day.
> 3.  Wash hands frequently and try not to touch your face.
> 4.  Be stocked and prepared to stay at home if a infectious wave rolls through the community.
> 5.  Be prepared to kiss your ass goodbye.  :th_lmao:



people say its over blown but hospitals are being built people are quarantined
emergency funds  for cities . I don't recall that happing with the flu.


----------



## EastTexFrank

JimVT said:


> people say its over blown but hospitals are being built people are quarantined
> emergency funds  for cities . I don't recall that happing with the flu.



It hasn't.  We just accept that 20K to 55K are going to die every year and get on with our business.


----------



## m1west

EastTexFrank said:


> It hasn't.  We just accept that 20K to 55K are going to die every year and get on with our business.



I don't think its going to be that easy, lets do some math
1- my county has 40,349 people
2- the CDC says 40-70% of people are going to get it, thats 161,396 people
3- the mortality rate is 3.4% but lets say 3.4% get seriously ill not die
4- that 548 people
5- we have 1 hospital in our county and I can guarantee they don't have 548 beds let alone 548 isolation beds and the materials, staff and other recourses to deal with it.
6- now make my county S/F, LA etc with millions of people closely concentrated in one area and they are not going to be able to deal with it either. 
7- everyone is entitled to their opinion. Marty


----------



## mla2ofus

Marty, you must be using Japanese trigonometry 'cause I can't follow your math. How does 40% of 40,349 =161,396? And 548 is 3.4% of what?
Mike


----------



## m1west

mla2ofus said:


> Marty, you must be using Japanese trigonometry 'cause I can't follow your math. How does 40% of 40,349 =161,396? And 548 is 3.4% of what?
> Mike



got the comma in the wrong place its 16,139 but the 548 is still correct. 3.4 percent of 16,139 is 548.

3.4% is The WHO estimate on mortality rate.  so if you take the total population of my county 40,349  WHO estimates 40-70% of everyone in the US is going to get it so 40% of 40,349 is 16,139 and the mortality rate is 3.4% that is 548 people will die and that means double that in the isolation ward because only 1/2 the people die that get the pneumonia. In Wuhan china where it originated that is exactly what we saw. The transmission rate is so high the whole city becomes sick at almost the same time overwhelming the system and then people are turned away.


----------



## mla2ofus

OK, I see your mistake now. One thing no one has mentioned is the population density in Wuhan. I would think this would be a big factor in the transmission rate in any large city.
Mike


----------



## Jim_S RIP

Leftist cheers coronavirus as a means of getting rid of elderly climate skeptics


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> got the comma in the wrong place its 16,139 but the 548 is still correct. 3.4 percent of 16,139 is 548.
> 
> 3.4% is The WHO estimate on mortality rate.
> 
> ...



Don't forget that on an "average" day there are approximately 60% of the nations hospital beds filled with other patients.  That obviously varies by region, by season, etc.  During flu season the available beds is often far less.  In some areas the average available beds is far lower.  

But the Covid-19 has overwhelmed hospitals in parts of China as well as in parts of Italy.  China seems, at 3+ months after the initial outbreak, to be seeing a reduced number of cases each day.  The rest of the world is still on the uptick.  Hospitals may be overwhelmed in other nations.  Healthcare may be overwhelmed.  

I'm not trying to spread doom and gloom.  Just looking at the numbers.  Looking at the trends as they are playing out.  


And from the experts:  
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/g...-screenings-on-arrival-in-oakland/ar-BB10UEFP


> ...
> “We’re past the point of containment,” *Dr. Scott Gottlieb, (former) commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration* during the first two years of President Donald Trump’s administration, said on CBS’ “Face the Nation.”
> 
> “We have to implement broad mitigation strategies. The next two weeks are really going to change the complexion in this country. We’ll get through this, but it’s going to be a hard period. We’re looking at two months, probably, of difficulty,” Gottlieb said.
> 
> *U.S. Surgeon General Jerome Adams* said that shifting to a mitigation phase means that communities will see more cases and need to start thinking about whether it makes sense to cancel large gatherings, close schools and make it more feasible for employees to work from home.
> 
> “And that’s going to be different in Seattle than what it’s going to be in Jackson, Miss.,” he said on CNN’s “State of the Union.” “But communities need to have that conversation and prepare for more cases so we can prevent more deaths.”
> ...


For the FULL story follow the link!



And the good news is there may have been some lessons learned.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsa...xfwF7osKOzae1H_82W34u1s55GqOUZaSJF4eYpFmHSHPA



> *WHO Official Says Coronavirus Containment Remains Possible*
> Lulu Garcia-Navarro10-Minute Listen
> 
> "As long as you have these discrete outbreaks ... there is the opportunity to control them," says Dr. Bruce Aylward, team leader of the joint mission between the World Health Organization and China on COVID-19.
> 
> Even as the number of new coronavirus infections continues to spiral upward in countries around the world, a top global health expert says it's not too late to contain the virus.
> 
> "As long as you have these discrete outbreaks ... there is the opportunity to control them — to get on top of these and contain them and prevent a lot of disease and ultimately death," says Dr. Bruce Aylward, a senior adviser to the director-general of the World Health Organization. "That's the big message we saw in China — and one of the big surprises."
> 
> Aylward led a fact-finding trip in China in February on behalf of the World Health Organization. He says the experience there altered his view of what can be done.
> 
> "They actually changed the course of a respiratory-borne outbreak without a vaccine, which was extraordinary," says Aylward. The number of daily new cases in China went from around 2,000 just a few weeks ago to less than 100 in recent days.
> 
> But Aylward says other countries may be taking the wrong lesson from China by attributing its success to the government's unprecedented restrictions on daily life in several cities, most famously Wuhan, the city of 11 million people where the outbreak began. There, the government has suspended transportation out of the city and for the most part required people to remain in their homes — with only brief forays permitted to stock up on food and other supplies.
> 
> "China has 31 provinces, thousands of cities," notes Aylward. "And it was only a few cities where they took those draconian measures. In the vast majority of them, they ... really went back to fundamentals of public health."
> 
> These included ensuring that there was enough testing capacity to quickly identify cases, isolating infected patients, tracing anyone who had contact with them and, when necessary, placing those contacts in quarantine facilities so they wouldn't get infected by the sick person or spread the disease further. Also, in places where clusters of cases were emerging, authorities prohibited mass gatherings.
> 
> "That's how they stopped it in the areas with over 1.3 billion people," says Aylward. "We spent two weeks on the ground looking at the data. Every other province [beyond Hubei, where Wuhan is located] had hundreds, if not thousands, of cases, not unlike the situation you see in European countries or in the U.S. These are massive provinces with tens and even a hundred million people in them."
> 
> In short, Aylward says, "it wasn't a lockdown everywhere. That's the wrong way to portray China's approach to the disease. And that's leading to some fundamental confusion and failure to do the right things."
> 
> ...


FULL STORY CONTINUES with discussion about Italy and more.  Follow the link!​


----------



## Bannedjoe

Well ain't this just tits.

I got this email tonight:

Gosar Statement on COVID-19
PRESCOTT, AZ - Today, U.S. Congressman Paul A. Gosar, D.D.S. (AZ-04) issued the following statement:

“I have been informed that during the CPAC conference members of my staff and I came into contact with an individual who has since tested positive for, and is hospitalized for, COVID-19. I was with the individual for an extended period of time, and we shook hands several times.

I am not currently experiencing any symptoms, nor is any member of my staff. However, in order to prevent any potential transmission, I will remain at my home in Arizona until the conclusion of the 14 day period following my interaction with this individual. Additionally, out of an abundance of caution, I am closing my office in Washington, D.C. for the week and my team will follow the previously approved Tele-commute plan.

As we learn more about COVID-19, it is imperative to heed the advice and guidance from the CDC and medical professionals. President Trump and Vice President Pence have assembled an incredible team and I have been in contact with the CDC and the House Office of the Attending Physician."


----------



## pirate_girl

Bannedjoe said:


> Well ain't this just tits.
> 
> I got this email tonight:
> 
> Gosar Statement on COVID-19
> PRESCOTT, AZ - Today, U.S. Congressman Paul A. Gosar, D.D.S. (AZ-04) issued the following statement:
> 
> “I have been informed that during the CPAC conference members of my staff and I came into contact with an individual who has since tested positive for, and is hospitalized for, COVID-19. I was with the individual for an extended period of time, and we shook hands several times.
> 
> I am not currently experiencing any symptoms, nor is any member of my staff. However, in order to prevent any potential transmission, I will remain at my home in Arizona until the conclusion of the 14 day period following my interaction with this individual. Additionally, out of an abundance of caution, I am closing my office in Washington, D.C. for the week and my team will follow the previously approved Tele-commute plan.
> 
> As we learn more about COVID-19, it is imperative to heed the advice and guidance from the CDC and medical professionals. President Trump and Vice President Pence have assembled an incredible team and I have been in contact with the CDC and the House Office of the Attending Physician."



Self-quarantine.
So is Senator Ted Cruz.

https://www.bizpacreview.com/2020/0...ing-coronavirus-stricken-cpac-attendee-895468


----------



## Melensdad

It's great that our Congressmen and Senators* can afford *to self quarantine for 2 weeks.

_But how many families can do that if they require 2 incomes just to pay the bills?  How many people will go to work sick and infect their co-workers because they need to make the rent payment and buy some groceries.  Most Americans have little to no savings.  There will be many who spread this who may not even have symptoms in addition to the above who will go to work with mild symptoms and spread the disease.

The people at risk are probably not most of those workers, they are the older people.  Risk factors start to go up over age 50.  And go higher over age 60.  And are much higher over age 70.  Add in some underlying heart problems, lung problems, or diabetes and your risk seems to be much higher for serious complications._​
If you are in your teens, 20's, 30's, 40's or even into your 50's and you are healthy then you may get Covid-19 and it will likely be a fairly mild to moderate case.  But older neighbors, older family members or parents are likely going to be at risk.  

Social distancing and self quarantine is important because honestly that may be the only way to prevent overwhelming the healthcare system UNTIL they can find drugs/treatments to help the high risk people.


----------



## m1west

The number I saw this morning was 542 infected in the US and 22 dead that right at 4%, also the stock market trading was stopped at open due to a rapid slide of 7% right at open.


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> The number I saw this morning was 542 infected in the US and 22 dead that right at 4%,* also the stock market trading was stopped at open due to a rapid slide of 7% right at open.*



FWIW, I think the stock market slide may be mostly related to the oil war inside OPEC with Saudi Arabia and Russia having a major battle, and flooding the market with production.

The global airline demand for oil has plummeted.  As has the demand to fuel cruise ships.  Those two combined, along with a general slowdown in driving in other regions, combined to make an excess supply of oil.  OPEC want to scale back production.  Russia resisted the cut back.  Saudi's responded by flooding a market that is already flooded.  I believe a good bit of the market drop is oil related.


----------



## marchplumber

Funny gas prices are still 243/9 in Peoria Illinois.  Where is that glut of oil? I guess it doesn't affect gasoline price.....=(

I saw a talk show host making fun of this with her hands up and touching elbows.  I just don't think it's funny......


----------



## m1west

marchplumber said:


> Funny gas prices are still 243/9 in Peoria Illinois.  Where is that glut of oil? I guess it doesn't affect gasoline price.....=(
> 
> I saw a talk show host making fun of this with her hands up and touching elbows.  I just don't think it's funny......



US now not ruling out shutting dow parts of the country to slow the spread


----------



## JimVT

the national forest pulled permits for large groups  last Thursday here in washington


----------



## Melensdad

marchplumber said:


> Funny gas prices are still 243/9 in *Peoria Illinois*.  Where is that glut of oil? I guess it doesn't affect gasoline price.....=(
> .



Hate to point out, but that IS in Illinois.  We see gas prices hovering just about $2/gallon in parts of Indiana.  It was $2.39 here about a week ago.  I paid $2.15 on Friday.


----------



## tiredretired

I consider March 9, 2020 a very historic day for stupidity.


----------



## m1west

TiredRetired said:


> I consider March 9, 2020 a very historic day for stupidity.



Might be stupid but its having real consequences.


----------



## pirate_girl

Send the bill to China.




> LOUISVILLE, Ky. (WDRB) -- Kentucky U.S. Sen. Rand Paul says his decision last week to vote against an $8 billion coronavirus emergency package had nothing to do with the price tag. It had to do with where the funds were coming from.
> 
> His comments came Monday morning while he was visiting, JOM Pharmaceutical Services, a pharmaceutical service provider in Shepherdsville.
> 
> "I support the money," Paul said. "I just think we should take it from somewhere else in the budget where it's not being used wisely. So I had an amendment that would have said the $8 billion should come from foreign welfare that we send to foreign countries in the form of foreign aid. I think really we ought to concentrate on our country."


----------



## pixie

Yes, I want to send the bill to china, also.

Seems like the second time that a 'bat' virus has gotten into the human population in China. If those bats or caves were somewhere in this country I would hope we would have the good sense to bomb them and bury the area and not think twice about whether they were rare or cute or tasty. YUK.


----------



## tiredretired

Screw the Chinamen.  They started all this horse shit.  Now everyone invested in the market has lost money.  Oil prices have dropped now more than what it costs to process the oil shale.  

This is all been a master plan of those slanty eyed bastards to undermine our country and the leftists here are complicit in it.

Why else would those dumb bastards be so offended when someone calls it the "Wuhan" Virus?  

Gimmee a friggin' break here.


----------



## road squawker

Melensdad said:


> Hate to point out, but that IS in Illinois...edit....



$1.84 here in SW Tn for regular


----------



## Melensdad

road squawker said:


> $1.84 here in SW Tn for regular



I've not seen it dip below $2 here yet, but I live in the area of Indiana with the highest gas prices.  I suspect that if I drive west in the next day or two I may see sub-$2/gallon prices.  The EPA designates my county has to use a special Chicago area fuel blend that is more expensive than the fuel blend that is used outside of my area.


----------



## EastTexFrank

Monday is one of the days that I take a trip in to town for our Rotary meeting and do some running around.  Right after my visit to Tractor Supply I headed for CVS pharmacy.  I picked up the one item that I needed and on the way to check-out I stopped to chat with the manageress who I always talk to when I shop there.  To cut a long story short, she told me that they were out of hand sanitizer, even the travel sized bottles.  They were also out of rubbing alcohol.  She said that they were almost out of toilet paper and paper towels.  So, it seems as if panic buying has come to my little town.  In a way I can understand it.  At the last census, 60% of the population of the city was over 50 years old so maybe they are just being prudent.  

It was the same at the grocery store later in the day … no hand sanitizer, no alcohol but there were still plenty of paper goods.  Everything else seemed to be in good supply.  

Our contribution to panic buying?  My wife went to the packing plant and picked up some steaks, filet and strip.  We're good!


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

road squawker said:


> $1.84 here in SW Tn for regular




Occasionally under $3 in the PNW.


----------



## Bamby

Oh this is rich....



> (CNN)I live in Kirkland, Washington, which is the epicenter of the coronavirus outbreak in our nation. As of Friday, 11 people have died in or near Kirkland and we still don't know the full breadth of the threat or the response needed due to the botched testing rollout and lack of resources.



Whine whine whine whine bitch bitch bitch bitch after working for decades to thwart cooperation with the federal government in matters that directly relate to this sort of thing, such as illegal invaders, people ****ting on the sidewalk, importing huge numbers of Chinese and Indian citizens via H1bs (and where did this originate?), all the "wunderkind" companies that have offshored huge numbers of jobs to said nations (gee, that doesn't have people going back and forth into SeaTac from those places, does it?) and more.

Ms. Woke now suddenly gets a bit of the wages of said actions over the last couple of decades, her own state and local governments sit on the problem at the nursing home until it literally blows out the *******s of residents as they expire and now she screams for "heeeeeeelp!"

Well cry me a ****ing river.

Look chickie, here are the facts.  You can't offshore all the production of critical things to turd-world nations employing slave labor, have them cook up, either through negligence in a lab or just ****ty sanitation and playing with bush meat a nasty bug, have it screw them up the ass and then magically have all that production teleport itself somewhere else.  If you make the decision to have that "wunderful life" out there by doing such things, and may I remind you that Spamazon, Microsuck and more are all right there and all of them have engaged in this crap, driving your property values and stock portfolios to the moon, there is a price.

Specifically, the price is that when it goes to crap guess who eats it?  You, along with everyone else who you ****ed in this nation for the last couple of decades with your "wokeness."

There is no "extreme inaction" by our federal government.  It in fact is China that practiced not only extreme inaction but active lies and obfuscation while Chinese nationals and Americans related to them who you imported here traveled back and forth seeding the virus into your community.  You, the very area and the very people getting it up the ass the worst, are part of the epicenter of the offshoring and destruction of US production.  What percentage of Spamazon's products are made in the USA?  Oh, you don't want to talk about that, do you?  Nor do you want to talk about why it started there.

Why the **** not?



> In this pressure cooker of stress, there is also pressure to go to work. While in Washington State most workers can accrue paid sick days, tens of millions of people, including the majority of low wage workers across the nation cannot. To follow doctor's orders and stay home when sick, or to be quarantined when the coronavirus strikes, or to be there when a child's school is closed due to the outbreak, everyone needs access to paid sick days. And when facing a choice between paying rent and taking an unpaid day off, most people who are struggling to make ends meet have little choice but to work sick.



Well your little utopia created that too!  Why it's a woman's place to do whatever!  We can ramp the cost of living and...... aw ****, now there's nobody to take care of junior -- or anyone else -- when someone gets sick.  I know, I know -- let's call Daddy Government after we did it!

Take your wokeism and shove it straight up your ass.

Kirkland is the start of this for a reason, and the reason is the bull**** that is found on the left coast and has greatly exacerbated the problem.  No, it's not the whole story, but to create a problem, get ****ed by it and then whine instead of sucking it up and dealing with it, well, here's my answer chickadee:


----------



## pirate_girl

Gas prices here are hovering around the $2.15 mark.
Lower than it was last month at this time?
As for toilet paper, I have noticed at Walmart they have the mega packs of Charmin toward the front of the store, as well as face masks and the 3 pk of Clorox bleach wipes.
No price gouging going on either.


----------



## FrancSevin

Melensdad said:


> FWIW, I think the stock market slide may be mostly related to the oil war inside OPEC with Saudi Arabia and Russia having a major battle, and flooding the market with production.
> 
> The global airline demand for oil has plummeted. As has the demand to fuel cruise ships. Those two combined, along with a general slowdown in driving in other regions, combined to make an excess supply of oil. OPEC want to scale back production. Russia resisted the cut back. Saudi's responded by flooding a market that is already flooded. I believe a good bit of the market drop is oil related.




It's pretty much a given historically,  that when crude prices fluctuate wildly, the world economy suffers and the Markets drop. I am always amused when the news experts blame it on something innocuous or unrelated, like the flu. As though the sheep are too stupid to know any better.

Much less give a hoot.

Herd mentality doesn't relate to crude oil.  Now Toilet paper, that's a whole nuther matter.


----------



## pirate_girl

Just sayin...


----------



## Melensdad

*Washington State is looking at a state-wide quarantine.* 

With mandatory restriction.

Governor announced they are looking at the growth/spread rate and *projecting 64,000 cases* in the state by May if they cannot slow it down.  

Washington State is also looking at imposing new standards on Nursing Homes within the state based on the outcry from citizens over the way they totally botched the situation in Kirkland.

_Washington State Gov. Jay Inslee said the entire state of Washington might need to be quarantined because of the outbreak. With so many expected to be out of work, Inslee said the state will be expanding unemployment benefits to cover anybody who misses work because of the virus.   Inslee said that cases could increase to 64,000 by May if the state doesn't take action. If necessary, Inslee said the state would implement mandatory restrictions on travel, possibly even a complete quarantine, as Seattle local TV station KOMO reported._​
Linky dinky doo => https://komonews.com/news/coronavir...s-cases-in-wash-by-may-if-we-dont-take-action


Also from Washington State:  https://www.seattletimes.com/seattl...us-response-including-cancellation-of-events/



> *Coronavirus crackdown? Seattle-area official outlines possible next steps*
> 
> Seattle area public-health officials are “at the ready” to start ordering involuntary isolation and quarantines and are considering cancellation of major public events, with information coming soon, a top official said Monday.
> 
> Patty Hayes, director of Public Health — Seattle & King County, outlined potential next steps in the area’s effort to slow the spread of the virus at a Seattle City Council meeting and said officials are talking about what to do.





Here is the summary from ZeroHedge of the other news:   www.zerohedge.com

Now sure how the summary missed it, but it has now been confirmed by the Pentagon that some US soldiers in Korea & Italy have Covid-19 


Summary:

6th patient dies from Cov-19 in UK

US CDC Chief: "the US is beyond virus containment in some areas"

*Washington State considering "Rapid Lockdown"*, new benefits announced for workers

*Mortality rate in Lombardy hits 8% - higher than Wuhan*

Lagarde calls on European governments to embrace "rapid fiscal action."

Austria, Switzerland close borders with Italy

NJ Governor declares state of emergency

North Carolina declares state of emergency

Air Canada latest airline to suspend routes to Italy as traffic expected to plunge due to quarantine

*Mass. declares state of emergency after confirming 51 'presumptive' cases; Boston cancels St. Patricks Day Parade*

*NYC Mayor says outbreak "evolving very rapidly"*

*Harvard moves classes online*

Xi takes victory lap in Wuhan

Trump says had 'great' meeting with Repubs on stimulus plan, but no details released

*Italy reports 36% jump in deaths, cases climb above 10,000*

Three Canadians test positive in Calgary

Spain suspends parliament after lawmaker infected

Austria total cases hits 182

First case reported in Philly

EU suspends parliament indefinitely

*Italian government suspends mortgage payments across country*

CDC says nearly 5,000 tests have been conducted in US through Monday

*National Guard is deploying to New Rochelle, area businesses, schools will close, Cuomo says*

New Jersey confirms first death

Trump arrives on Capitol Hill to discuss stimulus plan with Republicans
​

*And in news far more local and personal to me, INDIANA UNIVERSITY is closing all their campuses at the end of this week.  Reopens April 6th. *   So it looks like my daughter's spring break, which starts after classes end tomorrow, has been extended to April.  All classes will be moved to On-Line classes.


----------



## EastTexFrank

They just reported a case in Longview, Texas about 100 miles from me.  It's getting closer.


----------



## Melensdad

*PURDUE University* just announced they will close all their campuses after spring break and switch to on-line classes for at least 2 weeks.

I suspect that many many more universities will do this all around the nation.


----------



## pirate_girl

Yeah, DeWine is calling for all colleges to take their classes online.
I think that's for Cuyahoga and Franklin counties.
I guess 3 people tested positive.

Two of the confirmed cases involved a married couple who had been on a cruise on the Nile River while the third case is of a man who had attended the American Israel Public Affairs Committee in Washington, D.C. All three are in their 50s.


----------



## tiredretired

Only one case in Vermont so far.  Heading out early in the morning for more last minute prepper supplies and stock up a bit on gasoline and propane.  Other than that business as usual. Spring is coming.  70 degrees yesterday and almost 60 today.  I am preparing, but expecting all of this to not live up to the hype.  Trump is a smart organizer and I firmly believe he has a handle on all this as much as is humanly possible.


----------



## Melensdad

pirate_girl said:


> Yeah, DeWine is calling for all colleges to take their classes online.
> I think that's for Cuyahoga and Franklin counties.
> I guess 3 people tested positive.


probably going to be a trend.  

I think the students and PARENTS need some guidance.  IF the student travels for Spring Break then those kids probably need to seriously think about a real self quarantine when they return home.  So many variables, so much high risk activity at the bars and beaches frequented by college students on spring break, so many people from so many places that may bring Covid-19 on Spring Break trips... and then send it to other locations.


----------



## pirate_girl

Caution certainly needs to be exercised here.
But I'm not now or ever going to go into freakout mode over a virus.
It's crazy how this is getting so blown out of proportion.
Having said that, TAKE PRECAUTIONS as you should be doing during flu season, in fact.. all the time.
I know I'm being extra aware of things while out and about.


----------



## EastTexFrank

TR, I'm a bit like you.  I don't know if this virus will live up to the hype.  The cynic in me says that the media is trying to cause a panic in order to destroy the Trump economy before the election.  I'm not usually a conspiracy theory kind of guy but they are generating a lot of panic over what is still a minor outbreak.  It's as if it was the "black death" which it assuredly is not.

I've been holding off on gas and diesel because really I can get them anytime without getting involved in crowds.  Maybe next week.  

One thing that you don't see mentioned very often is that Wuhan is a city of eleven and a half million people that has been isolated for weeks and I haven't seen any reports of them losing power or water.  Just sayin'.


----------



## Bannedjoe

I went to home depot yesterday, and only had to stun about 8 people who stood too close to me.


----------



## pirate_girl

Just watch it.
Lol

[ame]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2dIVmCOl9KM[/ame]


----------



## mla2ofus

I think population density could be a major factor in the transmission rate. Any one know the population density of Wuhan, China?


----------



## m1west

mla2ofus said:


> I think population density could be a major factor in the transmission rate. Any one know the population density of Wuhan, China?



11 million


----------



## mla2ofus

I know the population. What I'm asking is the number of people per square mile/hectare in the city and immediate area.
Mike


----------



## m1west

mla2ofus said:


> I know the population. What I'm asking is the number of people per square mile/hectare in the city and immediate area.
> Mike



I don't know but Wuhan is one of China's most populous cities. I would compare it to NYC


----------



## Melensdad

FWIW the local Costco has plenty of water, TP, paper towels, etc.  no panic buying here.  Gas is $1.80.9 per gallon now.


----------



## EastTexFrank

Tomorrow is Wings Wednesday at Cowburners so I'll be in town for lunch.  I have to do some shopping so I'll report back with the latest update from East Texas.  

Really the only thing that I suspect will be in short supply is hand sterilizer, rubbing alcohol and the like.


----------



## Bannedjoe

Melensdad said:


> Gas is $1.80.9 per gallon now.



Now would be the time to invest in a whole bunch of stabilizer and a huge storage tank.


----------



## pirate_girl

From November 2015.
https://www.nature.com/news/engineered-bat-virus-stirs-debate-over-risky-research-1.18787


----------



## Melensdad

I think this is a pretty good view from the medical professionals:

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infect...YDrBOcEmIEaqg6YJP7W9Nh0eiEzp6ak4hsXd7G0yzGlNk


> *COVID-19: Why I’m Very Concerned*
> — Despite what should have been ample warning, the U.S. may get blindsided
> 
> Martin Makary MD, MPH
> 
> While it’s well known that China and Iran have under-reported their COVID-19 statistics, Italy has been fully transparent. What we are learning is very concerning. The Lombardy province alone has experienced a surge in deaths due to the coronavirus— from 20 to 66 deaths in just one day. *Analyzing data for the country as a whole, new diagnoses and deaths are doubling every few days*. _At this rate, Italy’s entire healthcare system will be overwhelmed by next week. Remember that two weeks ago, Italy had reported seven deaths._
> 
> Italy is a preview of what we may see in the U.S. very soon.
> 
> In a recent statement, the American Hospital Association projects strain on U.S. hospitals and is requesting congressional funding for new hospital construction and increased housing for patients. Doing the math, the U.S. currently has approximately 100,000 ICU beds with most hospitals already functioning at full or near-full capacity. According the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security, 200,000 to as many as 2.9 million patients could present to U.S. hospitals with coronavirus. It’s time we increase the capacity of our medical centers before the infection ramps up.
> 
> Wuhan was overrun even with 19 field hospitals set up for the pandemic. Healthcare workers are at the highest risk of getting infected, not only representing a risk to our lives but a strain to our capacity to care for the tsunami of patients expected. U.S. hospitals and health professionals are on track to soon be overrun with patients, following the pattern of hospitals overseas who describe rationing respiratory support. *Within weeks, U.S. hospitals may be significantly under-resourced and deal with major staffing shortages. Washington State is already scrambling to hire hundreds of travel nurses to help staff the influx of infected patients.*
> 
> *If the virus stays on its current trajectory, what happened in Wuhan will happen in the U.S. There is no strong scientific argument to suggest otherwise. *While we all hope the virus demonstrates an unexpected heat-sensitivity or mutates to a less virulent form, the virus has, so far, followed a highly predictable course. That path was mapped out over 3 week ago by Marc Lipsitch, PhD, of the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health. Despite his dire warning that *40%-70% of the population could be infected, little was done to prepare for the pending crisis beyond standard handwashing and coughing instructions* — a routine done every flu season. We need to mobilize quickly. In a national survey of 6,500 nurses in 48 states released last week, 63% of nurses report that they do not have access to N95 respirators in their units and many said they haven't been fitted or trained on how to properly use them. At the same time, first responders are underprepared and most have not been given the protective gear they need to treat infected patients.
> 
> _Unfortunately, we live in an era of people spouting opinions on social media and cable news with no knowledge of a topic. TV pundits with no knowledge of virology, public health, or pandemic history are crowding out medical experts. Twitter, which promotes shouting over listening, is also loaded with comments ignorant the to the data. News networks should push aside legacy political commentators and put infectious diseases physicians on the air to warn the public about the pandemic. Now more than ever, physicians need to speak up about the pending health crisis in the U.S._
> 
> *Arguments about the exact case fatality rate (CFR) have become a distraction from the real issue at hand* — preparedness. While it’s a worthy exercise to determine if CFR estimates are including mild or asymptomatic patients in the denominator, it does not change our need to prepare or how we treat individual patients. Data from Italy suggests the CFR may be as high as 3%-4%. Adding an assumption that roughly half of people with mild or no symptoms were not tested, it may be closer to 1.5%-2%, just below that of the 1918 Spanish flu pandemic which killed 30 million people. The Diamond Princess ship was a controlled case study: 705 people tested positive for the virus, and seven died, suggesting a 1% CFR, albeit a slightly older skewed population. *Regardless of where the true CFR is between 1% and 3.4% as the WHO is reporting, this is, at best, at least 10 times worse than a bad flu season and at worst, a pandemic that could claim millions of American lives.*
> 
> Further hindering public health efforts, the concept of American exceptionalism has morphed into a societal arrogance that somehow the immune systems of Americans are stronger than those of the Chinese. And even though other countries have enacted very strict quarantine practices, including martial law and a shutdown of schools, there is a misleading perception that the U.S. would have less community transmission because of a better health care system and better hygiene. *Another barrier has been the exaggerated notion that COVID-19 is only a danger to old people and that young people are entirely resilient.
> *
> Italy has now quarantined approximately 60 million people, and closed all nightclubs, gyms, and sporting events. I respect NIAID Director Anthony Fauci and admired his leadership as a clinical voice of reason amidst of our AIDS, SARS, and Ebola epidemics, but I’m concerned he has not yet introduced contingency plans for any of these major preventive measures. Instead, he is re-iterating a popular view that there is a lot we don’t know and that anything is possible. His only strong warning has been directed at to those considering cruise ship travel. *Based on the current trajectory of the pandemic, all U.S. schools are at risk and may need to be closed, public gatherings like NCAA tournament games may need to be postponed, businesses should have their employees work from home whenever possible, and hospitals should staff up.* I don’t like it, but that’s what the data are telling us to do.
> 
> At the current rate of spread, we can expect members of Congress, and even presidential candidates, to be infected with the virus within 6-8 weeks. In fact, President Xi Jinping of China has not been seen in public for weeks, and many of Iran’s leaders have the infection. Already, U.S. Sen. Ted Cruz and several House members have announced they will self-quarantine after shaking hands with an infected individual. Many more are likely infected but a we have been using a false pretense that confirmed cases are the only cases out there, despite that fact that testing has been extremely limited at best. *It’s time we dispel the notion that this virus is somehow contained.* It is at large.
> 
> The main talking points issued on this topic have been that we simply don’t know what this virus will do -- but COVID-19's course has already played out in other parts of the world. We just need to listen to data and put medical experts out in front of this instead of broadcasting opinions. *We need to plan for the worst and hope for the best.* Considering the implications for public health, and particularly for our older patients and those with underlying risk factors, we should act swiftly on the data rather than risk a delayed response we might regret.​








pirate_girl said:


> From November 2015.
> https://www.nature.com/news/engineered-bat-virus-stirs-debate-over-risky-research-1.18787



Looks like someone screwed it up and let it loose on the public


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> I think this is a pretty good view from the medical professionals:
> 
> https://www.medpagetoday.com/infect...YDrBOcEmIEaqg6YJP7W9Nh0eiEzp6ak4hsXd7G0yzGlNk
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like someone screwed it up and let it loose on the public



China's state media has been for a few days claiming that the virus originated in the US and was let loose in Wuhan by the CIA. They also stated that they provide  most all medicine to the US and may withhold sending medications as a retaliatory measure.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30567-5/fulltext


----------



## m1west

Has anyone seen a chart withe these categories ?

1- ages of people infected
2- gender of people infected
3- general health  of people infected
4- race of people infected

5- ages of people with mild or no symptoms
6- gender of people with mild or no symptoms
7- general health of people with mild or no symptoms
8- race of people with mild or no symptoms

9- ages of people recovered
10- gender of people recovered
11- general health of people recovered
12- race of people recovered

13- ages of people that died
14- gender of people that died
15- general health of people that died
16- race of people that died
 these statistics would tell all, why are they not available?


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> Has anyone seen a chart withe these categories ?
> 
> 1- ages of people infected
> 2- gender of people infected
> 3- general health  of people infected
> 4- race of people infected
> 
> 5- ages of people with mild or no symptoms
> 6- gender of people with mild or no symptoms
> 7- general health of people with mild or no symptoms
> 8- race of people with mild or no symptoms
> 
> 9- ages of people recovered
> 10- gender of people recovered
> 11- general health of people recovered
> 12- race of people recovered
> 
> 13- ages of people that died
> 14- gender of people that died
> 15- general health of people that died
> 16- race of people that died
> these statistics would tell all, why are they not available?



From the stuff I've seen, pretty much every age gets infected.  The UNDER 10 year olds MAY get infected at a LOWER rate.  But the infection rate seems to be similar for ALL ages.  85% of the people get MILD to MODERATE cases.  The SERIOUS complications seem to affect 15% of the population and lead to hospitalization, and those seem to skew up with age, but are not limited by age.  

I have seen nothing related to RACE from any source.

I have seen SOME medical data that is GENDER related but nothing that is totally conclusive.


----------



## Melensdad

By the way.  As I like to look at the trend lines and numbers here is something to ponder.

It took 5 days for the number of US coronavirus cases to get to 1000. 

US cases are right now tracking Germany with 6 day lag, so that implies we may see 2000 cases tomorrow, 3k by Friday, between 5-6k by Monday.  _This presumes the official tests get the results out.  And tests seem to take a bit of time to report._

Could be double the above counts if clusters are found like Korea did in late February.  Looking back at South Korea, they focused on a major cluster but missed several smaller clusters that popped up.  As those popped up their numbers jumped.  That is likely to happen in the US, just curious when it will get caught.


----------



## pirate_girl

I spent a while on a nursing forum last night.
Many of us are in agreement on one thing.


----------



## m1west

I never thought I would pray for hot weather but I am praying for hot weather.


----------



## mla2ofus

PG, sometimes I'm a little simple, what has been circulating for awhile but wasn't tested?
Mike


----------



## pirate_girl

mla2ofus said:


> PG, sometimes I'm a little simple, what has been circulating for awhile but wasn't tested?
> Mike



This particular strain of virus, dear.
You know, before it was a thing?


----------



## Bannedjoe

Gawdammit.

The wife does the MSM.
I don't.

She can usually see through the smoke.
Not this time I guess.

She just bought into the pandemic alert, and is racing off to Walmart.

I'm not sure whether to be happy about this or not.

She's usually smarter than this.

Ok so everybody is stocking up because a virus is spreading, .......and you're going to go mingle with people????
*sigh*

Please don't bring it home with you!


----------



## road squawker

just about every disease known to mankind is on the Walmart shopping carts.


----------



## pirate_girl

Our entire staff just got mass texts and they posted on our Facebook site that effective immediately we are under limited visitation at the facility until further notice.
We had just had the back ward on quarantine last month.
NO one has tested positive for the virus.
Doc is on my FB friends list.
I shared it on my timeline.


----------



## pirate_girl




----------



## Bannedjoe

This just arrived from one of my banks:



> Your health and safety is our priority.
> At BBVA, we are taking a number of proactive steps to ensure your access to uninterrupted banking services, while protecting the health and safety of our customers and our employees.
> 
> We are actively monitoring the changing situation around COVID-19, and our response teams across the bank are meeting regularly to ensure that we can continue to meet your financial needs.
> 
> As part of that, we are coordinating with our suppliers and vendors to make sure that your service remains unchanged even as we remain in touch with authorities like the CDC and WHO to inform our decisions.
> 
> We are also taking measures inside our branches to help contain the spread of COVID-19, including providing latex gloves and sanitizing wipes for employees, hand sanitizing stations for customers, employee training on social distancing and conducting enhanced cleaning procedures in line with recommendations from the CDC.
> 
> Ways you can help:
> 1.	Stay up to date. For more information on COVID-19, including actions you can personally take to help stop the spread of respiratory diseases, visit the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).
> 2.	Access your account from home 24/7 using the BBVA Mobile App or BBVA Online Banking.
> 3.	If you do need to visit a branch location, first confirm the hours of operation. Use our branch and ATM locator to find the branches nearest you along with their most current hours of operation.
> BBVA is committed to being a responsible partner in the communities we serve. Rest assured that we are taking every measure to limit the impact of COVID-19 on our operations while safeguarding employees and customers alike.
> 
> Stay up to date with our new online resource which includes coronavirus updates and the latest information on branch hours of operation.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Larry Franco
> SEVP - Head of Retail Banking



Uncle!

Can we just shoot the infected yet? 

Zombie apocalypse!!!!!
They prepared us all for this shit didn't they?


----------



## pirate_girl

Healthcare facilities are and should always be prepared as in always practicing universal precautions which we do.
Daily.
This is heightened because of the mass hysteria I should think, as well as being common sense and ordered to do so by the state.
John and Jane Q Public will not be permitted to waltz in with a plate of cookies for Aunt Shirley.
Activities will cease as in church services.
Only family members with relatives actively dying on hospice will be allowed to visit as well as support family members for our extreme behaviour residents.
Otherwise, business as usual.


----------



## Melensdad

Almost all travel to/from Europe is suspended for 30 days  

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-...y-evening-watch-live-stream-today-2020-03-11/




Also, the updated summary from ZeroHedge

Summary:

WHO declares Covid-19 is a pandemic
President Trump declares a travel ban from all European countries (not UK)
*[*]Tom Hanks, wife announce they have the Coronavirus*
NBA suspends all games until further notice
Utah Jazz player Rudy Gobert has tested positive for coronavirus.
LA confirms first death
*Seattle schools close for two weeks*
Italy closes stores
MGM says guest at Vegas's 'The Mirage' tested positive
Denmark closes schools, will send 'non-critical' public employees home to work
New Jersey case total climbs to 23
Juve player Daniele Rugani
DC Mayor declares public health emergency
Congressional doctor says up to
Cuomo confirms 39 new cases in NY, raising total to 212
First death in Indonesia
Confirmed cases in France top 2,000
*Washington State to ban events over 200*
Details of cruiseline industry's 'health and safety proposal' leak
'Waffle House' employee in Atlanta confirmed
UK reports 7th death
Chicago cancels St. Paddy's Day parade
NY sends in National Guard
IADB cancels meeting in Colombia as virus spreads across Latin America
Mnuchin says first part of virus stimulus plan will be ready in 2 days
Utah reportedly planning to shut public college and university campuses*
[*]Dr. Fauci warns virus 10x more deadly than flu and could infect millions if not handled early*
Australia passes A$18 billion stimulus package
Seoul says 99 cases tied to call center
FEMA evacuates Atlanta office over coronavirus scare
3 Boeing workers test positie
Washington DC advises cancellation or postponement of all gatherings with more than 1,000 people
Harvard to prorate room and board for students
US cases surpass 1,000
UK Health Minister catches virus
Ireland, Bulgaria, Sweden report first deaths
Connecticut declares state of emergency
UK total hits 456 following largest daily jump on record (83 new cases)
Global cases pass 120,000
South Korea reports new outbreak in call center
Japan reportedly planning to declare state of emergency


----------



## pirate_girl

Apparently Tom Hanks and his wife are both positive.
Gee, as much as the rich and famous travel the globe wouldn't you think others would have been infected by now?


----------



## Melensdad

pirate_girl said:


> Apparently Tom Hanks and his wife are both positive.
> Gee, as much as the rich and famous travel the globe wouldn't you think others would have been infected by now?



Yup, and yup

Also an NBA player (so I presume more than just 1)


----------



## Doc

Seems like good info ....


----------



## pirate_girl

This from the Ohio Nurses Association and the Ohio Department of Health, respectively.
I know it's lengthy and I'm sorry.




> COVID-19 Update: The state issued a new order today limiting visitors at nursing homes to 1 visitor/patient. Everyone who enters a nursing home will have to have their temperature taken. The state also confirmed a 4th confirmed COVID-19 case, taking us to a new phase of the pandemic.
> 
> More information from today's press conference with Governor DeWine and ODH's Director, Dr. Amy Acton:
> 
> COVID-19 Update:
> • The state will sign an order in the next 24 to 36 hours regarding mass gatherings in Ohio. Experts say the bigger the gathering, the bigger the risk of spreading the disease. At minimum, the order will include no spectators at indoor events and will affect March Madness games in Ohio. When asked about the size of the gathering, the state said it would release more information on this later.
> 
> • State order issued today: Limit nursing home visitation to 1 visitor per day. Nursing homes must set up a log and sign in for visitors. There must also be a log of anyone who enters the nursing home – staff, vendors, etc. – and all those entering must have temperature checked and asked screening questions.
> 
> • The next step with nursing homes would be to ban all visitors, though the state is not ordering this as of yet.
> 
> • Community Spread: There is a 4th confirmed case of COVID-19 in Ohio. This is the first case of community spread – the next phase of this pandemic. This case is of a male in his mid-50’s. He is hospitalized in Stark County.
> 
> • Once there are 2 confirmed cases of community spread, it is safe to assume that 1% of the population will have COVID-19. It’s safe to assume there is community spread across Ohio. Up to 40% of the population could contract COVID-19.
> 
> • What are we seeing happen is predictable per expert consultations.
> 
> • The government has the ability to control risks, and the government’s job is to do what it can to protect the people. Each one of us is having to change what we do to live.
> 
> • Dr. Acton showed a chart and the state’s goal to stay under a certain threshold in order to not overburden Ohio’s healthcare system.
> 
> • There was a change this week that allows for 2 specimens per COVID-19 test.
> 
> • The state is doing sentinel testing to find hot spots and clusters.
> 
> • There is no announcement at this time of closing K-12 programs. If that is required, the state will work with schools to alter requirements.
> 
> • The state is not ordering travel bans, but is asking people to use their own judgement on travel based on CDC recommendations.
> 
> • Some of the COVID-19 tests are being paid for by insurance. The ODH lab does not charge for the tests.
> 
> • The NIH is saying the vaccine could go to trials in 3 months. It could be a year, year and a half until the vaccine is in full production.
> 
> • Ohio is in the queue for more test kits.
> 
> • Not everyone hospital has the capacity to deal with COVID-19 cases. The larger hospitals will serve as regional hubs.
> 
> • When asked about people with no sick leave, the state said it was something that needed to be looked at.
> 
> • The state said that as this progresses, it will be likely we will need additional legislation.
> 
> • The message to Ohioans: There is a new, big risk in your life. And we need to start calculating that risk.
> 
> • Multiple hospitals are doing testing. Those tests are going to the ODH lab.
> 
> • Many hospitals are setting up screening tools, like call centers, to screen people by phone and to avoid people coming to the hospital if hospitalization isn’t required.
> 
> • Hospitals get a daily report of the PPE available at the facility.


----------



## EastTexFrank

Doc said:


> Seems like good info ....



I was right with this until the "don't drink liquids with ice" bullshit.  As I said before, I have enough Scotch to float a small battleship and I DRINK IT WITH ICE.  Screw it.  I'll go down with guns blazing and ice in my glass.


----------



## Bannedjoe

My wife came home with Tom Hanks and some bimbo on his arm.
She's passed out and hyperventilating.
The rest of us are going to snort some coke (Tom brought it), drink some Goldschlager, and I'll try to get back to you in the morning with results, if any of us ever wake up again .


----------



## NorthernRedneck

It's getting close to home. There was a confirmed case from someone who attended a conference in sudbury Ontario 10 hrs away. The mayor of my hometown 3 hrs away was at the same conference and apparently tested positive. There were a few people from thunder bay (a 12 minute drive from me) who were at the same conference.


----------



## JimVT

it looks like most of the states governors have setup a website or notices pertaining to their state on the latest recommended rules or suggestions. washing state just banned meeting of 250 or more and some schools have closed.  
jim


----------



## pirate_girl

I've got a survivor story to share.
She's easily searchable.
Fantastic.

https://www.facebook.com/woodrow1027


----------



## pirate_girl

We are on lockdown now from the general public.
I go in at 10.
We have to ring the buzzer on the front entrance, hand wash, sign in and have temp taken, until further notice.
This is being implemented throughout the state.


----------



## m1west

Just read the local paper online, there are now a father and daughter that tested positive in my little county of 40,000.  The daughter went to elementary school for a couple days before they figured it out. They live in Copperopolis which is about 30 miles from my house. There were 2 that returned from a Mexico cruise quarantined at home but they did not have it and now off of quarantine.


----------



## Jim_S RIP

From the CMP newsletter:

CMP Announces Cancellation of Selected Upcoming Events

CAMP PERRY, OH - The Civilian Marksmanship Program has announced the cancellation of the following marksmanship and training events due to health concerns brought on by the COVID-19 virus that is causing travel and logistical difficulties across the country. The CMP made the decision to alter the scheduling of these events in the best interest of the participants, families, spectators and staff in attendance at these popular events. More information will follow as it develops.

Cancellations:

* CMP National JROTC Championship - Camp Perry, OH  (March 19-21)

This championship event will continue as a postal match with finals.  Details will be emailed to teams and coaches as soon as they are finalized.


* CMP 3-P Regional Airgun Championship - Camp Perry, OH - Sandy, UT - Anniston, AL
(March 26-28 and April 2-4)

These regional events will continue as postal matches with finals. Details will be emailed to teams and coaches as soon as they are finalized.


* CMP 3-P Air Rifle Junior Summer Camps and Clinics Program - Multiple Locations
(June, July and August)


On the Watch List:

* CMP 3P Air Rifle National Championship - Camp Perry, OH  (Sporter - June 25-27 and Precision July 11-13)

At this point the CMP is planning to conduct the CMP National 3-P Championship in June and July, but will be monitoring the situation and will announce additional cancellations if needed.


To Be Conducted as Scheduled:

* The Western CMP Games and HP Matches at Ben Avery Shooting Facility, AZ

Participants need to be mindful of sound general health practices to help prevent communication of the virus (frequent hand washing, social distance with others, etc.).
The Western Games begin Friday, March 13 and conclude Sunday, March 22.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

Nascar will race for the next 2 weekends at Atlanta and homestead Miami without any fans in the stands. 

And up in Ontario Canada, march break is being extended another 2 weeks in response to the coronavirus. 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-government-closing-schools-1.5495736


----------



## FrancSevin

All these cancelled events!  Schools closed!  Nobody going anywhere!

It's gonna be a bad  lean month for mass shooters.


----------



## Jim_S RIP

FrancSevin said:


> All these cancelled events!  Schools closed!  Nobody going anywhere!
> 
> It's gonna be a bad  lean month for mass shooters.



Lot of trouble to go to when a sign should fix the problem.


----------



## tiredretired

We have two viruses right now.  The Corona Virus & The Fear Virus.  Sorry to say.


----------



## mla2ofus

I'm no stock speculator but I believe 90% of what makes the stocks drop so fast is the herd instinct. If one gets afraid a whole lot more go over the cliff with them.
Mike


----------



## marchplumber

EastTexFrank said:


> I was right with this until the "don't drink liquids with ice" bullshit.  As I said before, I have enough Scotch to float a small battleship and I DRINK IT WITH ICE.  Screw it.  I'll go down with guns blazing and ice in my glass.






I'm not in the medical field, but I do believe that the alcohol will be life threatening to the virus and possibly others.................Don't drink and drive! 



I don't believe firearms are an effective deterrent.  Check with the Joint Chiefs of Staff for clarification. LMBO!


God bless,
Tony


----------



## thepooguy

why arent they telling us to bleach our credit cards and use only those whenever possible?  currency is crazy dirty and does allot of travel. it could be in a strippers gstring in the morning then off to liquor store next then you get it back in change at the local pub......hmmmmm im going in tomorrow to get tested!!!!


----------



## NorthernRedneck

Sh-ts getting serious up here. The natives on the reserve just cancelled bingo.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

Trudeau is in quarantine for 14 days after his wife tested positive. 


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ow-organic&cmpid=socialflow-facebook-business


----------



## pirate_girl

DeWine has ordered all Ohio schools to be closed/on extended spring break, as well as banning gatherings of crowds over 100.
I too got an email from my bank similar to the one Joe received.
It was eerily quiet day at work.


----------



## pirate_girl

I just read on Facebook that the pope and 2 of his assistants have tested positive.
Not sure if it's true or not.


----------



## EastTexFrank

pirate_girl said:


> I just read on Facebook that the pope and 2 of his assistants have tested positive.
> Not sure if it's true or not.



I'm not surprised.  I saw video of him and he was under duress.  It was obvious that there was something wrong with the man.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Not sure if this is a re-post but this is a good article and the author just updated it today so worth looking at again if you have seen it before:

https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca


----------



## FrancSevin

pirate_girl said:


> I've got a survivor story to share.
> She's easily searchable.
> Fantastic.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/woodrow1027
> 
> View attachment 124267


I'm betting she had SARS Corona, not the current COVD-19 Corona virus.


That said, I suffered the "Flu" earlier this year and the symptoms exactly matched the Corona virus we were supposed to not yet have. 

Given the Chinese proclivity to lying, and the low credibility of our MSM, nothing abut this disease panic would surprise me. But I do have to ask our government, how come the Folks in S Korea can test 20,000 per day for COVD-19 and we still do not have any testing available here?


----------



## Doc

Some wise words from Italy.

-------------------------------------

I am writing to you from Bergamo, Italy, at the heart of the coronavirus crisis. The news media in the US has not captured the severity of what is happening here. I am writing this post because each of you, today, not the government, not the school district, not the mayor, each individual citizen has the chance, today to take actions that will deter the Italian situation from becoming your own country’s reality. The only way to stop this virus is to limit contagion. And the only way to limit contagion is for millions of people to change their behavior today.

If you are in Europe or the US you are weeks away from where we are today in Italy.

I can hear you now. “It’s just a flu. It only affects old people with preconditions”

There are 2 reasons why Coronavirus has brought Italy to it’s knees. First it is a flu is devastating when people get really sick they need weeks of ICU – and, second, because of how fast and effectively it spreads. There is 2 week incubation period and many who have it never show symptoms.

When Prime Minister Conte announced last night that the entire country, 60 million people, would go on lock down, the line that struck me most was “there is no more time.” Because to be clear, this national lock down, is a hail mary. What he means is that if the numbers of contagion do not start to go down, the system, Italy, will collapse.

Why? Today the ICUs in Lombardy are at capacity – more than capacity. They have begun to put ICU units in the hallways. If the numbers do not go down, the growth rate of contagion tells us that there will be thousands of people who in a matter of a week? two weeks? who will need care. What will happen when there are 100, or a 1000 people who need the hospital and only a few ICU places left?

On Monday a doctor wrote in the paper that they have begun to have to decide who lives and who dies when the patients show up in the emergency room, like what is done in war. This will only get worse.

There are a finite number of drs, nurses, medical staff and they are getting the virus. They have also been working non-stop, non-stop for days and days. What happens when the drs, nurses and medical staff are simply not able to care for the patients, when they are not there?

And finally for those who say that this is just something that happens to old people, starting yesterday the hospitals are reporting that younger and younger patients – 40, 45, 18, are coming in for treatment.

You have a chance to make a difference and stop the spread in your country. Push for the entire office to work at home today, cancel birthday parties, and other gatherings, stay home as much as you can. If you have a fever, any fever, stay home. Push for school closures, now. Anything you can do to stop the spread, because it is spreading in your communities – there is a two week incubation period – and if you do these things now you can buy your medical system time.

And for those who say it is not possible to close the schools, and do all these other things, locking down Italy was beyond anyone’s imagination a week ago.

Soon you will not have a choice, so do what you can now.

Please share.


----------



## pirate_girl

FrancSevin said:


> I'm betting she had SARS Corona, not the current COVD-19 Corona virus.
> 
> *
> That said, I suffered the "Flu" earlier this year and the symptoms exactly matched the Corona virus we were supposed to not yet have. *
> 
> Given the Chinese proclivity to lying, and the low credibility of our MSM, nothing abut this disease panic would surprise me. But I do have to ask our government, how come the Folks in S Korea can test 20,000 per day for COVD-19 and we still do not have any testing available here?




It's what myself and many others have been saying all along, Franc.


----------



## tiredretired

Here's one possible reason.  Seems most of our antibiotics are made in China.  Maybe the test kits are too.  No one is telling the truth.  Fox News is the only one asking as far as I know and i have yet to hear a straight answer.  

They are all lying assholes who only care to fire proof their own asses, at the expense of all our asses.  I hate them all.


----------



## Melensdad

International Women's Day march in Madrid recently drew big crowds ... A flashing-red headline from BBG just declared that Spain is announcing a national state of emergency over the outbreak, as the number of confirmed cases in Madrid soars amid a rash of deaths.

Socialist PM Pedro Sanchez said that he isn't ruling out the possibility that there will be more than "100,000 cases of coronavirus in Spain" as early as next week.

Perhaps they should have practiced a bit of social distancing as a proactive way to flatten the growth curve to prevent overwhelming the health system?


----------



## tiredretired

Ever been to Europe?  They are friggin' idiots.  They love to lecture us on how cultured they are, yet they still piss in the streets.  I have never seen such a large group of people lack common sense like they do.  

Bottom line, our beloved POTUS has shut them off from coming here.  Soon he will declare a National Emergency which will give him broader powers to fight this.  Let the Euros wallow in their own shit and migrants.  

Sorry for being blunt, but these are blunt times to be living in.


----------



## EastTexFrank

TiredRetired said:


> They love to lecture us on how cultured they are, yet they still piss in the streets.



Where?  And we don't have that problem here?  If pissing in the street is your criteria for judging a culture, we're pretty much fucked bro'.

No need to apologize for being blunt but at least be honest.


----------



## tiredretired

EastTexFrank said:


> Where?  And we don't have that problem here?  If pissing in the street is your criteria for judging a culture, we're pretty much fucked bro'.
> 
> No need to apologize for being blunt but at least be honest.



I see no argument from you on the lack of common sense, though.:  th_lmao::th_lmao:


----------



## deand1

I haven't been to Italy but I recently got this from a family member who has:

In Italy, they live on top of each other and they kiss when they greet each other. And they live in small homes with multiple generations in one house.

Could this be a problem we won't see because of our social differences?


----------



## Melensdad

I’m in Bloomington, IN for a few days.  It’s home of Indiana University with something around 40,000 students.  The kids have already begun leaving campus for spring break.  Went to the Kroger Supermarket a few blocks away and every shopping cart was in use.  Parking lot was full.  People looked serious and carts were stacked to nearly overflowing.  Paper goods aisle was cleaned out.  Goods like rice and beans and noodles were low. Canned soups and other canned goods low.  But no crowds in the meats or frozen foods areas.  

I bought 3 donuts and a box of frozen spring rolls.


----------



## tiredretired

Melensdad said:


> I’m in Bloomington, IN for a few days.  It’s home of Indiana University with something around 40,000 students.  The kids have already begun leaving campus for spring break.  Went to the Kroger Supermarket a few blocks away and every shopping cart was in use.  Parking lot was full.  People looked serious and carts were stacked to nearly overflowing.  Paper goods aisle was cleaned out.  Goods like rice and beans and noodles were low. Canned soups and other canned goods low.  But no crowds in the meats or frozen foods areas.
> 
> *I bought 3 donuts and a box of frozen spring rolls.*



Great survival food right there.  :th_lmao:


----------



## pirate_girl

I believe now and have since this whole thing started that the Chinese have been dishonest.
Did they created this strain of virus to control their own population?
Did it spin way out of control and make it's way into other countries?
Something to ponder, isn't it?
What about the treatment of the Chinese people who were said to be dying in large numbers?
Did this really happen?
The Chinese doctor who the media were reporting as having died from the virus?
Some are now saying he in fact did not die at all.
On a global scale, I don't know what the hell to think about any of that now.


----------



## EastTexFrank

TiredRetired said:


> I see no argument from you on the lack of common sense, though.:  th_lmao::th_lmao:



We both live in the USA and you think lack of common sense is a purely European trait.  Surely not!  Look around you.  

Deand1, you are exactly right.  The population density, for the most part, is much higher in most parts of Europe.  People tend to live in smaller houses and apartments and much closer together.  

It is part of the culture, especially in Latin countries, to greet friends and relatives with a kiss on one or both cheeks.  That alone makes the transmission of the virus much easier but we do the same thing here, especially with family.  

I have no idea where this thing is heading but I'm told that the Governor of Texas just made some kind of announcement.  I better go find out what he's talking about because that does affect me.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Hopefully, this helps to bring more manufacturing back to the US.  The chinese have poisoned our dogs with melamine, given us at least 2 pandemics, put cancer causing chemicals in our medications, and who knows what else.  They would be doing us a favor by refusing to sell us their crap.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

They're close to finding a vaccine in Saskatchewan. 


https://www.narcity.com/news/ca/sk/...-in-saskatchewan-is-now-in-the-testing-stages


----------



## tiredretired

When Trump was asked if he was getting tested for Coronavirus, he should of said yeah, right after Biden gets tested for dementia.


----------



## pirate_girl

This.
I'm seeing this more now every day.


----------



## tiredretired

PBinWA said:


> Hopefully, this helps to bring more manufacturing back to the US.  The chinese have poisoned our dogs with melamine, given us at least 2 pandemics, put cancer causing chemicals in our medications, and who knows what else.  They would be doing us a favor by refusing to sell us their crap.



They would do us a favor if they just blew themselves up.


----------



## Jim_S RIP

PBinWA said:


> Hopefully, this helps to bring more manufacturing back to the US.  The chinese have poisoned our dogs with melamine, given us at least 2 pandemics, put cancer causing chemicals in our medications, and who knows what else.  They would be doing us a favor by refusing to sell us their crap.



I have friends who lost their dog due to the melamine. 

No telling what else they are doing/have done to all of us. 

Getting them out of our supply chain is a good thing.


----------



## EastTexFrank

pirate_girl said:


> This.
> I'm seeing this more now every day.
> View attachment 124406



PG, this makes a lot of sense to me.  I don't know if it is true or not but it is certainly possible.


----------



## Doc

Borrowed - very good!
Facts about COVID19:

1) It is a virus. Just like influenza (flu) is a virus. It is in family of Coronaviruses that cause colds but this strain of virus is more virulent. The disease from it is called COVID19. There is no shame in getting it. It is a virus.

2) Antibiotics do not work on viruses.

3) The best preventative medicine is healthy diet, exercising (yes seriously), and WASHING YOUR HANDS. A lot. This does not mean that splash of soap quickly run your hands under the water thing. This means a full 20 seconds, 2 rounds of singing the alphabet, washing hands and fingers with soap thing. Wash your hands every time you go to a new place, come home, go to a meeting etc.

4) DO NOT TOUCH YOUR FACE. I know we all do this and if you try not to consciously, you will find out you do it ALLLLLLL the time. so, back to #3, wash your hands!! If you wash your hands, then there are fewer germs on your hands and those germs have less chance of making contact with your mucous membranes.

5) OK. Some science: Viruses, especially this one, live on surfaces. You touch the surface and then you put that little germ in contact with your mucous membranes which then the virus is like--'wee, a place i can live and replicate'...yeah, see we don’t want that. So keep your house and workspace clean and wipe down surfaces regularly.

6) OK..more science about viruses: Before people get obviously sick with a virus, they can have that virus in their body and not look or feel sick. So, if someone has the novel coronavirus and is lucky to be healthy, but let's say wipes their mouth and then touches the table at your local eatery. Or, they sneeze because that perfume in the mall is just too much, the virus from this NON-sick person finds its way to surfaces. Then you accidentally touch the surface with the virus and then you touch your mouth, nose, eyes-well back to #5 then. This is why viruses spread easily in large crowds and gatherings.

7) As the next few weeks come and go there will be more testing. The more we test, the more people will test positive. Consider this: if more people are positive but are not that sick or not sick at all, it means that the overall mortality rate will eventually be LOWER. So, try not to panic when you see more positive tests.

8)Do not go buy all the toilet paper at Costco. (RESPIRATORY illness people)

9) Do not be afraid to NOT shake people's hands. That’s a reasonable part of trying to keep each other safe. A smile and a head nod goes a long way.

10) Children do NOT seem to be at great risk. This is good. Folks over 60 or those with chronic disease (especially lung) ARE at higher risk. Consider this for loved ones and members of your community. (More science--this virus likes to go to the lungs, so those whose lungs that are already a bit burdened or older are going to be more affected by the virus).

11) DO THIS:
--buy enough food so that if you need to stay at home for 2 weeks or so you could.
-- work from home when it’s reasonable for you to
--avoid large meetings and gatherings.
--wash your hands A LOT (see above)
--cough and sneeze into your elbow
--DO NOT SEND A FEVERISH KID TO SCHOOL
--DO NOT GO TO WORK IF YOU HAVE A FEVER
--DO NOT RUN TO THE ER IF YOU HAVE A COLD
--If someone you spend time with has been tested and clearly diagnosed with COVID19, it means that you are at risk and should stay home.

Remember, the goals for all of us are:
1) not to get sick if possible.
2) keep others from getting sick!

--LAST THING HERE--this one is SO IMPORTANT. If and when they come up with a vaccine for this one, TAKE THE VACCINE. TAKE THE VACCINE. GIVE IT TO YOUR KIDS. AND, for heaven's sake, start or keeping taking the FLU Vaccine.

Oh yeah, one more thing... be nice to healthcare workers. They’re working harder than ever.

Help each other out and just be kind.


----------



## Doc

Sharing as this might be accurate.  I'm not sure, but I've seen in more than one place drinking often so that your throat is not dry helps.  so  ....


----------



## marchplumber

Doc said:


> Borrowed - very good!
> Facts about COVID19:
> 
> 1) It is a virus. Just like influenza (flu) is a virus. It is in family of Coronaviruses that cause colds but this strain of virus is more virulent. The disease from it is called COVID19. There is no shame in getting it. It is a virus.
> 
> 2) Antibiotics do not work on viruses.
> 
> 3) The best preventative medicine is healthy diet, exercising (yes seriously), and WASHING YOUR HANDS. A lot. This does not mean that splash of soap quickly run your hands under the water thing. This means a full 20 seconds, 2 rounds of singing the alphabet, washing hands and fingers with soap thing. Wash your hands every time you go to a new place, come home, go to a meeting etc.
> 
> 4) DO NOT TOUCH YOUR FACE. I know we all do this and if you try not to consciously, you will find out you do it ALLLLLLL the time. so, back to #3, wash your hands!! If you wash your hands, then there are fewer germs on your hands and those germs have less chance of making contact with your mucous membranes.
> 
> 5) OK. Some science: Viruses, especially this one, live on surfaces. You touch the surface and then you put that little germ in contact with your mucous membranes which then the virus is like--'wee, a place i can live and replicate'...yeah, see we don’t want that. So keep your house and workspace clean and wipe down surfaces regularly.
> 
> 6) OK..more science about viruses: Before people get obviously sick with a virus, they can have that virus in their body and not look or feel sick. So, if someone has the novel coronavirus and is lucky to be healthy, but let's say wipes their mouth and then touches the table at your local eatery. Or, they sneeze because that perfume in the mall is just too much, the virus from this NON-sick person finds its way to surfaces. Then you accidentally touch the surface with the virus and then you touch your mouth, nose, eyes-well back to #5 then. This is why viruses spread easily in large crowds and gatherings.
> 
> 7) As the next few weeks come and go there will be more testing. The more we test, the more people will test positive. Consider this: if more people are positive but are not that sick or not sick at all, it means that the overall mortality rate will eventually be LOWER. So, try not to panic when you see more positive tests.
> 
> 8)Do not go buy all the toilet paper at Costco. (RESPIRATORY illness people)
> 
> 9) Do not be afraid to NOT shake people's hands. That’s a reasonable part of trying to keep each other safe. A smile and a head nod goes a long way.
> 
> 10) Children do NOT seem to be at great risk. This is good. Folks over 60 or those with chronic disease (especially lung) ARE at higher risk. Consider this for loved ones and members of your community. (More science--this virus likes to go to the lungs, so those whose lungs that are already a bit burdened or older are going to be more affected by the virus).
> 
> 11) DO THIS:
> --buy enough food so that if you need to stay at home for 2 weeks or so you could.
> -- work from home when it’s reasonable for you to
> --avoid large meetings and gatherings.
> --wash your hands A LOT (see above)
> --cough and sneeze into your elbow
> --DO NOT SEND A FEVERISH KID TO SCHOOL
> --DO NOT GO TO WORK IF YOU HAVE A FEVER
> --DO NOT RUN TO THE ER IF YOU HAVE A COLD
> --If someone you spend time with has been tested and clearly diagnosed with COVID19, it means that you are at risk and should stay home.
> 
> Remember, the goals for all of us are:
> 1) not to get sick if possible.
> 2) keep others from getting sick!
> 
> --LAST THING HERE--this one is SO IMPORTANT. If and when they come up with a vaccine for this one, TAKE THE VACCINE. TAKE THE VACCINE. GIVE IT TO YOUR KIDS. AND, for heaven's sake, start or keeping taking the FLU Vaccine.
> 
> Oh yeah, one more thing... be nice to healthcare workers. They’re working harder than ever.
> 
> Help each other out and just be kind.






THANK YOU DOC!!!!


----------



## Doc

I ran into one more I thought worth sharing: Corona Virus spread rate Italy and US to date.

-----
Covid-19 Update. Here is a graphic comparing the rate of rise of covid case numbers in US vs Italy. We are right on track to be where they are in 11 days (almost 20k cases), we’re even a bit ahead as of today. The gist of this is we should do everything we can to reduce the rate of transmission.

What we can all do to reduce the spread rate:

This is a simple matter of avoiding contacts as much as possible and especially avoiding groups, events, meetings.


----------



## bczoom

But Italy has less than 1/5 of the US population so to be equal, we should have 5-times the number. 
They're also closer together.
Italy has average of 520 per sq/mi.
USA has less than 100 per sq/mi (not counting the land mass of Alaska).


----------



## Bannedjoe

Well here's how I figure it:
Hand sanitizer kills the virus.

The active ingredient in hand sanitizer is alcohol.
The active ingredient in Vodka is also alcohol.

I can wash my hands with vodka and I can drink it.
There's no way in hell I'm ever going to catch this virus.


----------



## m1west

Something to think about is if the warm weather does not kill it off it will get a lot worse and we will be dealing with it for more than 3 months just like China before it starts to go away.


----------



## Melensdad

Doc said:


> I ran into one more I thought worth sharing: Corona Virus spread rate Italy and US to date.
> 
> -----
> Covid-19 Update. Here is a graphic comparing the rate of rise...



But we are actually NOT testing enough.

I think once we start getting the tests available we may well see a big jump in cases.  They only report 'confirmed' cases.  We could literally have 10x that amount but we simply have no clue.


----------



## tiredretired

Bannedjoe said:


> Well here's how I figure it:
> Hand sanitizer kills the virus.
> 
> The active ingredient in hand sanitizer is alcohol.
> The active ingredient in Vodka is also alcohol.
> 
> I can wash my hands with vodka and I can drink it.
> There's no way in hell I'm ever going to catch this virus.



Well, I would say so far Trump's COVID-19 Panel's efforts to flatten the infection rate curve is working.  So far so good I would say.  

The European countries have really dropped the ball on this bigly and it looks like it will not be much longer for them to overwhelm their healthcare facilities and be in real deep shit.  

Trump and his team seem to be doing a bang up job so far.  Like I said, time will tell.


----------



## EastTexFrank

Bannedjoe said:


> Well here's how I figure it:
> Hand sanitizer kills the virus.
> 
> The active ingredient in hand sanitizer is alcohol.
> The active ingredient in Vodka is also alcohol.
> 
> I can wash my hands with vodka and I can drink it.
> There's no way in hell I'm ever going to catch this virus.



Not quite.  Hand sanitizer, to be effective, has to be at least 60% alcohol.  Vodka is only 40% alcohol. So washing your hands with vodka won't kill the virus but, alternatively, if you drink enough of the vodka you won't give a shit anyway.   

Tito's vodka actually made an announcement on their web page telling people NOT to use their vodka in any home recipe for hand sanitizer because it's not concentrated enough.  Straight moonshine would probably work.  

We do seems to be edging ever closer to a total lockdown.


----------



## EastTexFrank

TiredRetired said:


> Well, I would say so far Trump's COVID-19 Panel's efforts to flatten the infection rate curve is working.  So far so good I would say.
> 
> The European countries have really dropped the ball on this bigly and it looks like it will not be much longer for them to overwhelm their healthcare facilities and be in real deep shit.
> 
> Trump and his team seem to be doing a bang up job so far.  Like I said, time will tell.



Yea, the old European Union thing where countries have no legally enforceable borders has really come back to bite their ass.  

The countries that rely heavily on a nationalized health care system are going to be in a bind soon.  The problem they all have is that they are all underfunded by the government because the government has to levy taxes in order to pay for the system.  If the government raises the tax to a level that will meet the requirements, they won't be the government for very long.  Politicians aren't stupid enough to tax themselves out of a job.

I agree, I think Trump is doing a pretty good job so far.


----------



## Melensdad

France just shut down all non-essential businesses.

England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland have been added to the NO TRAVEL list.

Most colleges in most areas seem to be closing down for several weeks.  At least a few have closed for the entire semester.  e-Learning seems to be the next move for major universities.

In New York, Gov, Cuomo stated a few hours ago that there are probably "thousands" of infected people walking around the state of New York.





> *
> "This is going to be everywhere," Cuomo said. "My guess is there are thousands and thousands of cases walking around the state of New York."
> *


----------



## EastTexFrank

Melensdad said:


> In New York, Gov, Cuomo stated a few hours ago that there are probably "thousands" of infected people walking around the state of New York.



He very well could be right!


----------



## NorthernRedneck

Everything up here is shutting down. And I mean EVERYTHING.  Not just sporting events. The girls guides program suspended everything for a month. A lot of churches in our city have suspended services until further notice. Our mens group had a fish fry planned for Easter. That's suspended. We were on our way out to the cabin for a scout camp when an email came in from scouts Canada suspending all scouting activities until further notice. (We played dumb and went anyways. If anyone says anything, we were out of cell service and didn't see it)  So we're the last scouts in Canada doing a camp. I'm typing this from a log cabin out in the middle of nowhere an hour from civilization. 

You know it's serious when the natives cancel bingo.


----------



## tiredretired

EastTexFrank said:


> Yea, the old European Union thing where countries have no legally enforceable borders has really come back to bite their ass.
> 
> The countries that rely heavily on a nationalized health care system are going to be in a bind soon.  The problem they all have is that they are all underfunded by the government because the government has to levy taxes in order to pay for the system.  If the government raises the tax to a level that will meet the requirements, they won't be the government for very long.  Politicians aren't stupid enough to tax themselves out of a job.
> 
> I agree, I think Trump is doing a pretty good job so far.



However, the thing that worries me the most and cannot get out of my head is the fact that all of a sudden Nancy Piglosi seemed to want to get along with everyone and readily agreed to everything the Trump Admin wanted.

Very out of character for her.  Makes one wonder what she was told or was she just in a big hurry to get out of Dodge?  I dunno.  

Yeah, Frank, the way the EU is set up with all those open borders between them did them no favors.  On top of that they were slow to close their borders and that did not help either.  

Stay tuned as they say.


----------



## m1west

TiredRetired said:


> However, the thing that worries me the most and cannot get out of my head is the fact that all of a sudden Nancy Piglosi seemed to want to get along with everyone and readily agreed to everything the Trump Admin wanted.
> 
> Very out of character for her.  Makes one wonder what she was told or was she just in a big hurry to get out of Dodge?  I dunno.
> 
> Yeah, Frank, the way the EU is set up with all those open borders between them did them no favors.  On top of that they were slow to close their borders and that did not help either.
> 
> Stay tuned as they say.



Europe isn't all that big and most of those countries are the size of our states. Maybe we should look at restricting travel between states and domestic air travel except commerce


----------



## Melensdad

NorthernRedneck said:


> Everything up here is shutting down. And I mean EVERYTHING.  Not just sporting events. The girls guides program suspended everything for a month. A lot of churches in our city have suspended services until further notice. Our mens group had a fish fry planned for Easter. That's suspended. We were on our way out to the cabin for a scout camp when an email came in from scouts Canada suspending all scouting activities until further notice. (We played dumb and went anyways. If anyone says anything, we were out of cell service and didn't see it)  So we're the last scouts in Canada doing a camp. I'm typing this from a log cabin out in the middle of nowhere an hour from civilization.
> 
> You know it's serious when the natives cancel bingo.



Our fencing club is staying open ... at least for a little while.  I know another couple that are doing the same.  But fencing clubs are small groups.  All the fencing events have been cancelled but the clubs are staying open for now.  We are talking about having some very strict rules.  Things like no guests, no new members, no parents watching, no 'open' fencing nights, etc. etc. etc.

Our club has about 25 active fencers.  We can all talk and agree on safe rules until the virus is in our area.  At this point there is none locally???


----------



## Bannedjoe

The nation's largest machine gun shoot has been cancelled for next weekend.
Not so much due to the virus, but more due to the rains.
No one's crossing the wash unless they have a tank.

There were reports that East coaster's were cancelling for the virus before the cancellation was called, but most in the West were stilling planning on attending.

mgshooters.com


----------



## Melensdad

Melensdad said:


> By the way.  As I like to look at the trend lines and numbers here is something to ponder.
> 
> It took 5 days for the number of US coronavirus cases to get to 1000.
> 
> US cases are right now tracking Germany with 6 day lag, so that implies we may see 2000 cases tomorrow, 3k by Friday, between 5-6k by Monday.  _*This presumes the official tests get the results out.* __ And tests seem to take a bit of time to report._
> 
> Could be double the above counts if clusters are found like Korea did in late February.  Looking back at South Korea, they focused on a major cluster but missed several smaller clusters that popped up.  As those popped up their numbers jumped.  That is likely to happen in the US, just curious when it will get caught.


As of Saturday night there were 2900+ confirmed cases of Covid-19 in the USA and clearly we have far more because of the whole debacle with testing.

It is likely that if we actually had tests widely available, there would be 5-6 thousand cases by Monday.

But efforts prior to all the cancellations have not changed our curve.  Hopefully with so many school closings and so many people now panic buying and hunkering in fear people will stay home for a while?


----------



## m1west

Something else to think about. Those still getting fresh fruit and vegies from the store. With the virus able to last on surfaces for days, will plain water wash off the virus. I'm not sure I would eat un cooked anything from the store.


----------



## deand1

The following is a great explanation of why social distancing is so important right now. While you are hanging out at home please take the time to read this.
This is a letter from Albert Hsu, a scientist at Los Alamos National Laboratory.
Dear Friends,
So much confusion, misinformation, and denial is bouncing around on social media about the coronavirus that I thought I would try to explain, in plain language, why the experts see this as such an emergency.
You will see the claim online that this virus is a lot like the viruses that cause colds, and that if you get it, it will probably just seem like a bad cold and you are very unlikely to die. Depending on who you are, these statements are probably true. But they are incomplete, and the missing information is the key to understanding the problem.
This is a coronavirus that is new to the human population, jumping into people late last year from some kind of animal, probably at a wildlife market in Wuhan, China. It is related to the viruses that cause colds and acts a lot like them in many ways. It is very easy to transmit through the respiratory droplets that all of us give off. But nobody has ever been exposed to this before, which means nobody has any immunity to it.
The virus is now moving explosively through the human population. While most people will recover, about 20 percent of the people who catch it will wind up with a serious disease. They will get pneumonia that causes shortness of breath, and they may need hospitalization.
Some of those people will get so sick that they cannot be saved and will die of pneumonia. The overall death rate for people who develop symptoms seems to be 2 or 3 percent. Once we have enough testing to find out how many people caught the virus but did not develop symptoms, that might come down to about 1 percent, optimistically. It could be even lower, but 1 percent is the estimate given to Congress by the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, so we will go with that.
If the number is 1 percent, that is a large number. It is at least 10 times higher than the mortality rate for the seasonal flu, for instance, which in some years kills 60,000 or 70,000 Americans. So just on that math, we could be looking at 600,000 or 700,000 dead in the United States. But it gets worse.
Older people with existing health problems are much more vulnerable, on average. The mortality rate of coronavirus among people over age 80 may be 15 or 20 percent. It appears to have 7 or 8 percent mortality for people aged 70 to 79. Here is the terrible part: If you are a healthy younger person, you can catch the virus and, without developing serious symptoms yourself, you can pass it along to older people. In other words, as the virus spreads, it is going to be very easy to go out and catch it, give it to your grandmother and kill her, even though you will not die yourself. You can apparently catch it by touching a doorknob or an elevator button, although the likeliest route seems to be droplets spreading through the air directly from one person to another.
Scientists measure the spread of an epidemic by a number called R0, or “R naught.” That number is calculated this way: for every person who develops the illness, how many other people do they give it to before they are cured (or dead) and no longer infectious? The R0 for coronavirus, in the absence of a control strategy, appears to be a number close to 3 – maybe a bit higher or lower, but in that ballpark. This is an extremely frightening number for such a deadly disease.
Suppose you catch the virus. You will give it to 3 other people, and they will each give it to three others, and so forth. Here is how the math works, where you, the “index case,” are the first line:
1
3
9
27
81
243
729
2,187
6,561
19,683
59,046
177,147
531,441
1,594,323
4,782,969
14,348,907
So, in just 15 steps of transmission, the virus has gone from just one index case to 14.3 million other people. Those 15 steps might take only a few weeks. The index person may be young and healthy, but many of those 14 million people will be old and sick, and they will likely die because they got a virus that started in one person's throat.
The United States is not at this point yet, with millions infected, as best we can tell. We don’t really know, because our government has failed us. We are many, many weeks behind other countries in rolling out widespread testing, so we don’t really have a clue how far the thing has spread. We do know that cases are starting to pop up all over the place, with many of the people having no known exposure to travelers from China, so that means this virus has escaped into our communities.
We do not have approved treatments, yet. We do not have a vaccine. The only tool we really have now is to try to slow down the chain of transmission.
This can be done. In other words, R0 is not fixed – it can be lowered by control measures. If we can get the number below 1, the epidemic will die out. This is the point of the quarantines and the contact-tracing that you are hearing so much about in the news. But the virus is exploding so fast that we will not have the labor available to trace contacts for much longer, so we have to shift strategies. This has already begun, but we are not doing it fast enough.
It is now likely that the majority of Americans will get this virus. But slowing it down is still crucial. Why? Because the healthcare system has limited resources. We only have about a million hospital beds in America. We have fewer than 100,000 ventilators. If millions of Americans get sick enough to need treatment, we will have a calamity on our hands. What will happen is a form of battlefield triage, where the doctors focus on trying to treat the young and allow the older people to die.
This is not theoretical. It is already happening in Italy, where the oldest people are being left alone on hospital gurneys to suffocate to death from pneumonia. They basically drown in their own sputum. There is simply not enough medical capacity to take care of them. The United States appears to be about two weeks behind Italy on the epidemic growth curve.
What do we need to do now? We need to cancel all large gatherings – all of them. You have probably seen that the N.B.A. has postponed the rest of its season. Other sporting events, concerts, plays and everything else involving large audiences in a small space – all of it needs to be canceled. Even if these events take place, do not go to them. No lectures, no plays, no movies, no cruises – nothing.
Stay at home as much as possible. Stay out of restaurants. I would cancel any travel that is not absolutely essential. Work from home if you possibly can. You may have to go buy groceries and medicine, of course, but make the trips quick and purposeful. Wash your hands assiduously after you have been in public places, for a full 20 seconds, soaping up thoroughly and being sure to get between the fingers. Rubbing alcohol will kill the virus, and most strong cleaners such as Lysol will do so as well.
And please stop passing around statements on social media claiming that the situation is not serious or is being exaggerated. This is a national crisis, and conveying misinformation to your friends and family may put their lives in danger.


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> Something else to think about. Those still getting fresh fruit and vegies from the store. With the virus able to last on surfaces for days, will plain water wash off the virus. I'm not sure I would eat un cooked anything from the store.



Make apple pie.  Cherry pie.  etc etc etc


----------



## pixie

Spray fresh food with alcohol or hydrogen peroxide and then rinse.
I leave my new unrefrigerated groceries in the bag for 3 days and spray and wipr off meat and milk packages.

I was already a germaphobe....I hadn't been going to those lengths until now.


----------



## EastTexFrank

m1west said:


> Something else to think about. Those still getting fresh fruit and vegies from the store. With the virus able to last on surfaces for days, will plain water wash off the virus. I'm not sure I would eat un cooked anything from the store.



Having worked in hell holes in Africa and South America, I know that there are procedures and methods for cleaning vegetables but it has been so long that I can't remember what they are.  I guess that it's another case of "Google is your Friend".


----------



## NorthernRedneck

Chief health officer in Canada says we're up to 313 cases. 

https://trib.al/29pRBGL


----------



## Melensdad

3244 confirmed cases in the USA according to Johns Hopkins University.  A couple other sources having it higher.

Of course we are not testing enough so its likely much higher that the JHU numbers.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

My wife works for the cra (Canadian irs).  They just canceled all non essential services until April 5th. This is getting serious. Everything is shutting down. It'll be like an extended statutory holiday but won't be a vacation.


----------



## tiredretired

The death count number is still staying very low. 69 at last count in USA.  

Either the death rate from this disease is extremely low or the infection rate in the US is extremely low even without all the test kits.  

Something is just not adding up here.

A talking head on Fox News said yesterday there are two camps in the USA.  One group says this is serious, the other it is over hype and horseshit and that before the end of the week, we will find out which group is right.  I, for one, am starting to suspect it is the horseshit one.

https://www.redstate.com/darth641/2020/03/16/799728/


----------



## Melensdad

Interesting video from Bluffton, OH.

Bluffton has a population of approximately 4400 people and a small local hospital.  The numbers are easy to wrap your mind around.   

Not sure how to imbed the video, but here is a link.  It is well worth watching  https://vimeo.com/397672277


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> Interesting video from Bluffton, OH.
> 
> Bluffton has a population of approximately 4400 people and a small local hospital.  The numbers are easy to wrap your mind around.
> 
> Not sure how to imbed the video, but here is a link.  It is well worth watching  https://vimeo.com/397672277



Statistics look worse than the model I calculated for my county of 40,000 and I used a 3.4% mortality rate. This video was  informative and broken-down where the simplest person can understand it. Marty


----------



## m1west

Washington state, LA and NYC just closed down all bars and restaurants.


----------



## Doc

Ohio Gov ordered all bars and restaurants closed after 9pm Sunday night.    Carry out is permitted but no dine in or drink in places open until further notice.


----------



## m1west

m1west said:


> Washington state, LA and NYC just closed down all bars and restaurants.



Newsom late Sunday asks all non essential businesses to close, stopped short of ordering all bars and restraurants to close and told seniors and people with underling conditions to stay home.


----------



## m1west

Fauci the government face dealing with the corona virus, now open to shutting down the entire US for 14 days to flatten the curve.


----------



## pirate_girl

m1west said:


> Fauci the government face dealing with the corona virus, now open to shutting down the entire US for 14 days to flatten the curve.



Yes, I read something about that on Cleveland 19.

https://www.cleveland19.com/2020/03/16/us-moves-nearer-shutdown-amid-coronavirus-fears/


----------



## Bannedjoe

Due to being shut in and bored, I predict there will be another baby boom in 9 months.
The question is, what will this generation be called?

Here's a few of my offerings:
Nineteeners.
Generation C, or the Covid generation.
Quareenteens.
Coronials.


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> Washington state, LA and NYC just closed down all bars and restaurants.



Too little too late for those 3 areas.  It's already on the loose there in the community.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

Bannedjoe said:


> Due to being shut in and bored, I predict there will be another baby boom in 9 months.
> 
> The question is, what will this generation be called?
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a few of my offerings:
> 
> Nineteeners.
> 
> Generation C, or the Covid generation.
> 
> Quareenteens.
> 
> Coronials.


I predict they'll be called "bungholials" following the great toilet paper shortage of 2020.


----------



## Bannedjoe

I suspect that Toluene might kill the virus.
I'm going to suggest to anyone who thinks they have the covid to stay home, and huff paint.
The benefits could be multifold.

Expect a shortage of spray paint at your hardware.

Stock up now!!!!


----------



## Bannedjoe

On a more realistic note:

I had to make a trip to town yesterday.
Traffic was unusually insane.
People were traveling an average of 20 mph faster than the posted speeds on the highways.
The speed limit on I-40 out here is 75.
It was chaos.

As I was leaving town headed East, there were two cop cars traveling Westbound side by side with their lights on.
They were going only about 25 mph, and traffic was jammed up behind them for about 5 miles.
The only thing I could figure is they were trying to control the insane speeds.


----------



## deand1

A wise man said, "We all have a role to play in controlling the spread of this virus."


----------



## bczoom

Just got back from the grocery store. Went for bananas and stop at pharmacy.

The paper and sanitizing products are wiped out, shelves bare.  Everything else seemed to be at least half full on the shelves.  Was looking at people's shopping carts.  No overflowing carts and most people appeared to be "normal" shopping.


----------



## m1west

Based on a speech by NY governor and Nj governor Murray and comments from others I would say inside the next 2 weeks the entire country will shut down for a period of time to flatten the curve.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

That's what's happening up here in Canada. Trudeau just closed the borders to overseas travel. 

https://trib.al/Z03YKNT


----------



## m1west

NorthernRedneck said:


> That's what's happening up here in Canada. Trudeau just closed the borders to overseas travel.
> 
> https://trib.al/Z03YKNT



I think it needs to happen, Cut off all travel make everyone stay home for a month. It will be painful but it will have played out and gone, if we don't and it hangs around its just going to get worse and stay around longer effecting more people. Just do it, shut everything down.


----------



## mla2ofus

If they try to park all the 18 wheelers that will start the revolution!!
Mike


----------



## m1west

mla2ofus said:


> If they try to park all the 18 wheelers that will start the revolution!!
> Mike



They should keep commerce going. Air and truck commodities only with tag team deliveries not using truck stops, to warehouses for local deliveries then control retail outlets by only letting small amounts of people into the parking area and stores limiting purchases so everyone gets something.


----------



## m1west

S/F just announced a shelter in place order for 7 million people.


----------



## mla2ofus

m1west said:
			
		

> ;2 then control retail outlets by only letting small amounts of people into the parking area and stores limiting purchases so everyone gets something.



   That almost sounds communistic to me!! You'll love bernie's plan.
Mike


----------



## m1west

mla2ofus said:


> That almost sounds communistic to me!! You'll love bernie's plan.
> Mike



No that is a plan so people that did not prep for this to be able to survive a lock down. And I take offense to the Bernie comment.


----------



## Bannedjoe

m1west said:


> if we don't and it hangs around its just going to get worse and stay around longer effecting more people. Just do it, shut everything down.





m1west said:


> And I take offense to the Bernie comment.


I take offense to people using effecting, when the proper word is affecting.


----------



## pirate_girl

I have this strange out of the world Orwellian feeling about the times right now.
Was discussing it earlier with my one son.
He says Mom, I don't ever remember feeling like this before.
Same here, kiddo..


----------



## m1west

pirate_girl said:


> I have this strange out of the world Orwellian feeling about the times right now.
> Was discussing it earlier with my one son.
> He says Mom, I don't ever remember feeling like this before.
> Same here, kiddo..



I here you, I'm 62 and can not remember anything like this, closest thing I can remember were the riots in Detroit near where we lived in 68. I would rather face a walking dead situation than this at least you could see it coming.


----------



## pirate_girl

m1west said:


> I here you, I'm 62 and can not remember anything like this, closest thing I can remember were the riots in Detroit near where we lived in 68. I would rather face a walking dead situation than this at least you could see it coming.



Marty, for me it's not that I fear a horrible take off of this virus wiping out huge numbers of people in the USA as much as how it's changed the very fabric of our existence.
How we deal with others.
Stress levels are high for every damn situation and reason because of the uncertainty some are feeling.


----------



## m1west

pirate_girl said:


> Marty, for me it's not that I fear a horrible take off of this virus wiping out huge numbers of people in the USA as much as how it's changed the very fabric of our existence.
> How we deal with others.
> Stress levels are high for every damn situation and reason because of the uncertainty some are feeling.



For me its being a little scared and a little anxiety because I have never lived a Pandemic before and I don't know how it is going to turn out. Is this going to be every year now? I think if it goes away completely people will return to normal life like after the 1918 pandemic 
But if it doesn't go away, is seasonal or your not immune after getting it,that will be a game changer.


----------



## Melensdad

We held our last session at our fencing club tonight.  Closed the club until the Monday after Easter ... or later.  My club is a non-profit.  But clubs that rely on dues for income are going to be in trouble, just like a lot of other small businesses around the country.  It's going to be tough.  My club is trying to brainstorm with one of the for-profit clubs to keep them afloat, working to do live-streaming of workouts, etc for the members.  While our club is recreational, we rely on some of the for-profit clubs for serious coaching and to help the handful of competitive members we have at our club.

The world has changed.  Local businesses of all types are going to be in trouble.  Amazon has been a threat to them for the past few years and now people are afraid to go into local stores and are turning to Amazon and the UPS brown truck to deliver goods to their porch.  

Stores are being shut down by the government and may not survive.  People are afraid.  Hospitals may be overrun and medical staff will likely  be exhausted for months and survive on caffeine.  Mortgage payments?  Food?  Education?  Childcare?


----------



## mla2ofus

As for amazon can UPS,Fedex and USPS trust amazon packages to be virus free?? Yes, I believe there will be lots of small businesses going belly up but I think, in this respect, the chickens are coming home to roost.
Mike


----------



## pirate_girl

So DeWine has now ordered all polls closed tomorrow along with the health director.
Constitutionally speaking, can this happen???
https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinn...-health-director-will-order-polls-closed.html


----------



## Doc

pirate_girl said:


> So DeWine has now ordered all polls closed tomorrow along with the health director.
> Constitutionally speaking, can this happen???
> https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinn...-health-director-will-order-polls-closed.html


Iowa's primary election was a total cluster f'k ....sounds like DeWine just said: "Hold my Beer"


----------



## Melensdad

mla2ofus said:


> As for amazon can UPS,Fedex and USPS* trust amazon packages to be virus free??* Yes, I believe there will be lots of small businesses going belly up but I think, in this respect, the chickens are coming home to roost.
> Mike



Reasonably?  Yes.  The virus can survive on hard surfaces like steel or marble for something like 9 hours, but some suggest 3 days.  But on porous surfaces it survives for less time.  That said, a package typically is in shipment for 24 to 48 hours under Amazon PRIME shipping and for much longer under USPS shipping.  

So its unlikely that a package will carry Covid-19 and if it does it only carries it because the UPS or Postal worker is infected.  Easy solution is to let the package sit on your porch overnight ... or spray it down this Lysol or a solution of household bleach mixed with water.


----------



## pirate_girl

Doc said:


> Iowa's primary election was a total cluster f'k ....sounds like DeWine just said: "Hold my Beer"



June 2, they are now saying.


----------



## Bannedjoe

I'm done.
I've had it with this shit.

Freak the hell out if you want to with this year's great oh my god the world is over force fed mind fuck.

You get today.
That's it. Assuming you make it to bedtime.
If tomorrow comes, and you're present for it, yay, you get to start a new day.

You had yesterday, but there is no promise on any level for tomorrow.

Some people are getting sick.
Bummer.

A lot of people aren't.

You might as well focus on the fact that a gumball might fall from space and wipe out your favorite pacman character.

There is no sense in wringing your hands off worrying about something that may, or may not happen.

Go hide under a rock.
Collect toilet paper, or tree leaves if it makes you feel secure, but it won't stop you from getting run over by a bus tomorrow if that's in your cards.

Live with one foot in yesterday, the other in tomorrow, and you're just pissing all over today.

The world isn't ending.

Even if it is, you can't stop it.

Have fun until then, there's still the rest of today.


----------



## bczoom

PA has closed all liquor stores effective last night.  Went to the store yesterday.  Checkout line went to the back of the store and started to wrap around.  I just walked back out.

Went to the beer store.  It's normally 1-2 people in there.  The line was probably 20 people deep.  I got some beer anyway.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

I was surprised when they announced the liquor stores were staying open. I guess they figured that liquor is an essential service for all those parents stuck at home with their kids. [emoji1787]


----------



## NorthernRedneck

I just saw that our premier Doug Ford has declared a state of emergency in Ontario. 

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/mobile/o...of-emergency-amid-covid-19-pandemic-1.4856033

Edit:  there's another article that says he's committing $300 million to opening more hospital beds and such to deal with the strain on hospitals. 

"The premier also announced a $300-million “first stage” relief package, aimed at ramping up containment efforts.
The fund will go to providing 75 more critical care beds, 500 more acute care beds, 75 more COVID-19 response centres, purchasing more personal protective equipment and adding 1,000 more nurses and 50 more doctors to cover emergency response."


----------



## pirate_girl




----------



## m1west

Experts now think it could last up to 18 months coming in waves and to expect shortages.


----------



## Bannedjoe

m1west said:


> Experts now think it could last up to 18 months coming in waves and to expect shortages.



I'm apt to think "Experts" rank right up there with engineers.
They have lots of ideas, but in reality many of their theories and applications just don't work in the real world, or at best, make things more difficult than they should be.

I'll just leave this here.


----------



## marchplumber

Calm, attentive, thoughtful actions on the part of individual would go a LONG way......be responsible....help the helpless, hold up the weak, do the next right thing.....give up the "fear" and quit broadcasting it....one day at a time.....step up and be the person you always wanted to be!!


----------



## m1west

Bannedjoe said:


> I'm apt to think "Experts" rank right up there with engineers.
> They have lots of ideas, but in reality many of their theories and applications just don't work in the real world, or at best, make things more difficult than they should be.
> 
> I'll just leave this here.



Model predictions that have been posted are not too far off from reality and they did get us to the moon so if you can't do that maybe we should listen.


----------



## m1west

marchplumber said:


> Calm, attentive, thoughtful actions on the part of individual would go a LONG way......be responsible....help the helpless, hold up the weak, do the next right thing.....give up the "fear" and quit broadcasting it....one day at a time.....step up and be the person you always wanted to be!!



Fear is the only thing that keeps people from doing stupid shit.


----------



## marchplumber

m1west said:


> Fear is the only thing that keeps people from doing stupid shit.



Nope......

Fear causes people to do "dumb shit"......:th_lmao:


----------



## pirate_girl

Let's review with a simple, factual checklist.


----------



## mla2ofus

PG, you're one with a cool head and common sense!!
Mike


----------



## Melensdad

Melensdad said:


> As of Saturday night there were 2900+ confirmed cases of Covid-19 in the USA and clearly we have far more because of the whole debacle with testing.
> 
> It is likely that if we actually had tests widely available, there would be 5-6 thousand cases by Monday.
> 
> But efforts prior to all the cancellations have not changed our curve.  Hopefully with so many school closings and so many people now panic buying and hunkering in fear people will stay home for a while?



7663 confirmed cases as of today.  But the President's press conference talked about how the current number is under reported and we will begin to see big jumps in the numbers now that high speed testing results are becoming more widely available.  I would think a 10x increase in reported cases is reasonable within a week if the testing is accomplished.  So far all the testing promises have been over-promised and have under-tested.


----------



## m1west

marchplumber said:


> Nope......
> 
> Fear causes people to do "dumb shit"......:th_lmao:



Here is 3 examplse of what I mean
1- putting on a blindfold and running back and forth across the freeway
2- liquidating all you assets and buying lottery tickets
3- going into the woods and poking a bear with a stick
these examples also correlate to stupid so thats why God gave us fear.

Give me 3 examples of what you are talking about.


----------



## Bannedjoe

Not trying to play devil's advocate, or even be a smart ass, but if everyone could be tested right now, how would that change anything?
The sick will still be sick, and the infected will still be infected.

What will they do, dig a big hole and shove them all in?
Imprison them all until a vaccine is developed and becomes widely available?


----------



## NorthernRedneck

Be prepared for an influx of Canadian snowbirds heading north in the next couple weeks. Mine were in Arizona for the winter and were supposed to be coming back mid April. They left today. My wife's parents also winter there. They're leaving monday. This is all due to coronavirus


----------



## tiredretired

Melensdad said:


> 7663 confirmed cases as of today.  But the President's press conference talked about how the current number is under reported and we will begin to see big jumps in the numbers now that high speed testing results are becoming more widely available. * I would think a 10x increase in reported cases is reasonable within a week if the testing is accomplished. * So far all the testing promises have been over-promised and have under-tested.



Let's go with your assumption.  Sounds reasonable enough at this point.  

Currently we have 8000 reported cases in the US with 124 deaths. .015% death rate.

If we had testing right now and the reported cases became 80,000 with 124 deaths.  .0015% death rate.

Wouldn't this death rate be lower than the conventional flu we see every year or at least very close to it?


----------



## pirate_girl




----------



## m1west

TiredRetired said:


> Let's go with your assumption.  Sounds reasonable enough at this point.
> 
> Currently we have 8000 reported cases in the US with 124 deaths. .015% death rate.
> 
> If we had testing right now and the reported cases became 80,000 with 124 deaths.  .0015% death rate.
> 
> Wouldn't this death rate be lower than the conventional flu we see every year or at least very close to it?



I think there is one more component to calculating that. How many folks are in ICU with it right now. The numbers of infected are recent and it takes a few weeks to a month to die from it.


----------



## pirate_girl

Refugee admissions suspended- 

The Trump administration has suspended refugee admissions until April 6 due to the coronavirus outbreak, a State Department spokesperson says.


----------



## mla2ofus

TiredRetired said:


> Let's go with your assumption.  Sounds reasonable enough at this point.
> 
> Currently we have 8000 reported cases in the US with 124 deaths. .015% death rate.
> 
> If we had testing right now and the reported cases became 80,000 with 124 deaths.  .0015% death rate.
> 
> Wouldn't this death rate be lower than the conventional flu we see every year or at least very close to it?



  TR, that .015% should be 1.5%. That .0015% would be .015%
Mike


----------



## EastTexFrank

NorthernRedneck said:


> Be prepared for an influx of Canadian snowbirds heading north in the next couple weeks. Mine were in Arizona for the winter and were supposed to be coming back mid April. They left today. My wife's parents also winter there. They're leaving monday. This is all due to coronavirus



They may have trouble doing it.  My S-I-L is trying to get back to East Texas from Georgia but all her usual campgrounds and State Parks are closing or have closed their campsites.  Some of the rattier places may still be open and good enough for an overnight otherwise it's going to be Walmart and Cracker Barrel car parks.


----------



## m1west

Bannedjoe said:


> Not trying to play devil's advocate, or even be a smart ass, but if everyone could be tested right now, how would that change anything?
> The sick will still be sick, and the infected will still be infected.
> 
> What will they do, dig a big hole and shove them all in?
> Imprison them all until a vaccine is developed and becomes widely available?



1- you will know how many sick in your area so you know if its safe or to stay home
2- if things get too bad, it has been done before, think war time
3-  and yes if it gets bad enough you could find yourself locked up in a FEMA camp if you don't have some place to go away from people with supplies. I know that sounds harsh but there are people dead all around the world, the US is in lock down along with everyone else, the stock market is crashed down to 2015 levels, grocery stores are sold out, lots of people are out of work and pretty soon won't have the money to buy it anyway. I have never seen anything like this before have you? Its not just the illness. I hope I helped to answer you question.


----------



## marchplumber

m1west,


Fear is a natural reaction to events beyond the control of the individual.  "Boogie monster", unemployment, loss of family member, etc etc......normal everyday "fears"


What I am speaking of is the irrational fear that people experience in times of "uncertainty"


FIRE!!!!  People, IN FEAR stampede for the door.............many are trampled, killed and injured unnecessarily........calm, rational thought............get to doors quickly and orderly.


Fear of "not getting enough" equals irrational hording.............from empty shelves and unnecessary shortages...........(remember the MOBS at the front doors of stores on past Black Fridays???  Willing and able to hurt ALL who got in their way to the best deal or cabbage patch kid???) 



Fear causes the inability to make coherent decisions based on facts, not feelings.  Feelings are NOT facts, but they are powerful.  Fear of the "unknown" has kept many trapped in horrendous relationships and situations.  The Fear to change???  That's a big one.  Has been said that change is painless, it's the resistance to change that hurts like a S.O. B.


I meant that people should calm their fears.  Face the facts.  Move forward in a "kind" and helpful way INSTEAD of screaming and running like a herd of sheep, pushing, pulling, and trampling whatever/whoever is ahead of them for FEAR that they won't "get theirs"..............


Self-sacrifice...................courage...................common sense...............determination to do the next right thing, no matter what others do...........defend the weak, uphold the law, stand for what you believe in...............


Now?  Is a time to show the world TRULY what we are made of, nationally and locally.....................



Hope this helped.


----------



## m1west

marchplumber said:


> m1west,
> 
> 
> Fear is a natural reaction to events beyond the control of the individual.  "Boogie monster", unemployment, loss of family member, etc etc......normal everyday "fears"
> 
> 
> What I am speaking of is the irrational fear that people experience in times of "uncertainty"
> 
> 
> FIRE!!!!  People, IN FEAR stampede for the door.............many are trampled, killed and injured unnecessarily........calm, rational thought............get to doors quickly and orderly.
> 
> 
> Fear of "not getting enough" equals irrational hording.............from empty shelves and unnecessary shortages...........(remember the MOBS at the front doors of stores on past Black Fridays???  Willing and able to hurt ALL who got in their way to the best deal or cabbage patch kid???)
> 
> 
> 
> Fear causes the inability to make coherent decisions based on facts, not feelings.  Feelings are NOT facts, but they are powerful.  Fear of the "unknown" has kept many trapped in horrendous relationships and situations.  The Fear to change???  That's a big one.  Has been said that change is painless, it's the resistance to change that hurts like a S.O. B.
> 
> 
> I meant that people should calm their fears.  Face the facts.  Move forward in a "kind" and helpful way INSTEAD of screaming and running like a herd of sheep, pushing, pulling, and trampling whatever/whoever is ahead of them for FEAR that they won't "get theirs"..............
> 
> 
> Self-sacrifice...................courage...................common sense...............determination to do the next right thing, no matter what others do...........defend the weak, uphold the law, stand for what you believe in...............
> 
> 
> Now?  Is a time to show the world TRULY what we are made of, nationally and locally.....................
> 
> 
> 
> Hope this helped.


I hear what you are saying, I think we are kind of saying the same thing
Fear 1-5 level keeps you safe
Fear 6-10 level= panic and I agree panic helps no-one 
Is that what we are saying?


----------



## waybomb

At this minute, this virus is great.
I had to change the title to a car I just bought plus re-up my driver's license. 

I went in last Wednesday, the place was packed, and the lady at the counter asked if I'd like an appointment in a week. I said sure, figuring I might only have to wait a half hour instead of the posted hour and half that day.
Well holy Jesus - I went there today, and the only people allowed in were those with appointments! They let me in, went up to the best looking counter girl and out in less than ten minutes! The place was a ghost town, but open!
BTW - she was still a bitchy government employee.


----------



## marchplumber

I was speaking of irrational fears.............unfounded, unsubstantiated, mass driven.........


----------



## NorthernRedneck

EastTexFrank said:


> They may have trouble doing it.  My S-I-L is trying to get back to East Texas from Georgia but all her usual campgrounds and State Parks are closing or have closed their campsites.  Some of the rattier places may still be open and good enough for an overnight otherwise it's going to be Walmart and Cracker Barrel car parks.


They don't do campgrounds when they're traveling. Dad's a 40+ year retired truck driver. Any truck stop or Walmart parking lot works for them. Their biggest concern is the border being closed when they get there.


----------



## m1west

marchplumber said:


> I was speaking of irrational fears.............unfounded, unsubstantiated, mass driven.........



So are you saying the whole corona virus response , shutting down schools, quarantine, restricting travel etc. is overblown, irrational panic etc.?


----------



## marchplumber

m1west said:


> So are you saying the whole corona virus response , shutting down schools, quarantine, restricting travel etc. is overblown, irrational panic etc.?


No, nowhere did I say that.


----------



## m1west

My daughter sent me this today, be careful out there Lake Tahoe is not exactly known to be a high crime area.


----------



## EastTexFrank

NorthernRedneck said:


> They don't do campgrounds when they're traveling. Dad's a 40+ year retired truck driver. Any truck stop or Walmart parking lot works for them. Their biggest concern is the border being closed when they get there.



Good!

Didn't they just close the border to non-essential traffic?


----------



## tiredretired

EastTexFrank said:


> Good!
> 
> Didn't they just close the border to non-essential traffic?



Yep. Won't be seeing many Qubers making the trip south this year I'll bet.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

That's what I thought too. No clear indication that if you're a Canadian stuck down in the states if they'll let you cross at the border. I imagine they'd allow you to return to your home country. The same goes for Americans stuck in Canada.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

Italy had 475 deaths in one day from the coronavirus. And they also saw the numbers rise by 4207 people infected in single day indicating that this isn't slowing down. 

Our kids are struggling to understand. It's march break. They want to see their friends. They want to have sleepovers.  My wife's children from her first marriage want to see their dad. Our foster daughter who we're in the process of adopting wants to see her grandpa and sisters. They just don't get the seriousness. 

https://trib.al/5THQytg


----------



## Jim_S RIP

Our small town is taking precautions. 

The banks have closed their lobbies, some of the restaurants are drive through only and my Doctor has canceled Office hours except for emergencies. I have a phone appt to discuss test results.  


There are 95 reported cases in Texas with three deaths. One in Matagorda County SW of Houston, one in Collin County north of Dallas, and one in Tarrant County, Ft Worth.

We’re 100 miles from Ft Worth, maybe 120 from Dallas.

https://www.texastribune.org/2020/03/18/third-texas-death-linked-new-coronavirus/


----------



## pirate_girl

Now governor DeWine is saying every business no matter how large or small need to take the temperature of all workers, before/upon starting a shift.
How is that going to happen?


----------



## Jim_S RIP

pirate_girl said:


> Now governor DeWine is saying every business no matter how large or small need to take the temperature of all workers, before/upon starting a shift.
> How is that going to happen?



Quick everyone! 

 Lets all order thermometers to get ahead of the next shortage!


----------



## pirate_girl

jim slagle said:


> Quick everyone!
> 
> Lets all order thermometers to get ahead of the next shortage!



The people in the libertarian Facebook group are calling it bullshit.


----------



## Melensdad

pirate_girl said:


> The people in the libertarian Facebook group are calling it bullshit.



Which Libertarian FB group because I’m not seeing that.


----------



## Doc

Map showing corona virus infections March 1st and then March 15th.


----------



## road squawker

marchplumber said:


> I was speaking of irrational fears.............unfounded, unsubstantiated, mass driven.........




 for some reason, I have been thinking of a poem that I memorized back in the 60s.
I still remembered every word

"Chose Something like a Star" by Robert Frost


http://ceadserv1.nku.edu/longa/poems/rf-star.htm


----------



## pirate_girl

Melensdad said:


> Which Libertarian FB group because I’m not seeing that.



The libertarian party of OHIO.
the tweet was shared, then the comments commenced.


----------



## pirate_girl

China reports no new domestic cases for first time since start of epidemic.

That just came from NBC.


----------



## Jim_S RIP

pirate_girl said:


> China reports no new domestic cases for first time since start of epidemic.
> 
> That just came from NBC.



I find that hard to believe unless EVERYONE there has it.


----------



## Melensdad

Melensdad said:


> 7663 confirmed cases as of today.  But the President's press conference talked about how the current number is under reported and we will begin to see big jumps in the numbers now that high speed testing results are becoming more widely available.  I would think a 10x increase in reported cases is reasonable within a week if the testing is accomplished.  So far all the testing promises have been over-promised and have under-tested.



So we are now starting to get the testing results.  

Almost a 2000 case jump overnight.

But we expected this.  And it should accelerate.


----------



## tiredretired

pirate_girl said:


> Now governor DeWine is saying every business no matter how large or small need to take the temperature of all workers, before/upon starting a shift.
> How is that going to happen?


----------



## leadarrows

Welcome to Venezuela.


----------



## Bannedjoe

TiredRetired said:


> View attachment 124643



These are going to be as hard to find as TP real soon.


----------



## tiredretired

Bannedjoe said:


> These are going to be as hard to find as TP real soon.



Thinking the exact same thing Joe.


----------



## tiredretired

leadarrows said:


> Welcome to Venezuela.



Except when the leftists send their brownshirts (here it will be ANTIFA) to confiscate guns a lot of us will be shooting back, not running away like those beaners did.

Of course that is what I would be doing if in fact I still owned guns, which i do not after that boating accident on Lake Champlain in 2012.


----------



## Bannedjoe

TiredRetired said:


> Thinking the exact same thing Joe.



There are alternatives though.



https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07YJTRT8W/ref=dp_cerb_2


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

*Impact of non-pharmaceutical interventions (NPIs) to reduce COVID-19 mortality and healthcare demand*



Another long but good one ...
https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/im...-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf


----------



## JimVT

I have question ,the wife and I are the only ones in the home . if only one gets sick what should we do as far as isolation? just try to clean more and still live together ?


----------



## EastTexFrank

JimVT said:


> I have question ,the wife and I are the only ones in the home . if only one gets sick what should we do as far as isolation? just try to clean more and still live together ?



Me?  I'd shoot mine.  I very nearly did when she informed me that she was going in to town on Friday to get us a couple of sandwiches for lunch.  We had a long serious talk.  It wasn't totally unreasonable but I explained to her that there was no point in taking any unnecessary chances.  Even though we have no cases in our county, I don't know how much testing we have been doing either.  

Jim, in your case I don't honestly know what I'd do.  I don't know what your arrangements are.  I suppose it would come down to trying to live two separate lives under one roof.  What to do about cooking arrangements would be a major problem.


----------



## tiredretired

Bannedjoe said:


> There are alternatives though.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07YJTRT8W/ref=dp_cerb_2



You are getting complicated now Joe.  That bluetooth shit and smartphone capable.  I just want to point and pull the trigger.  I know how to do that.  :th_lmao::th_lmao:


----------



## tiredretired

EastTexFrank said:


> Me?  I'd shoot mine.  I very nearly did when she informed me that she was going in to town on Friday to get us a couple of sandwiches for lunch. * We had a long serious talk.  *It wasn't totally unreasonable but I explained to her that there was no point in taking any unnecessary chances.  Even though we have no cases in our county, I don't know how much testing we have been doing either.
> 
> Jim, in your case I don't honestly know what I'd do.  I don't know what your arrangements are.  I suppose it would come down to trying to live two separate lives under one roof.  What to do about cooking arrangements would be a major problem.



Yep, we did the same thing.  We are stock, locked and loaded and following POTUS's guidelines of 15 days to flatten the curve.  We are going nowhere, working around the house, engaging in our hobbies (I have a tunnel to build for my model railroad) no take out delivered or otherwise.

My wife and I are on the same page.  She has asthma.


----------



## Doc

More interesting info:

PLEASE READ: FROM AN IMMUNOLOGIST
AT JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY SO INFORMATIVE!!!!!

This is exactly what the public should be hearing maybe, just maybe, they can see how bad this is:
Here is a little more information on the virus that may help explain a few things that people don’t understand. This is from an immunologist at Johns Hopkins University.
&#55358;&#56784;
Feeling confused as to why Coronavirus is a bigger deal than Seasonal flu? Here it is in a nutshell. I hope this helps. Feel free to share this to others who don’t understand...
It has to do with RNA sequencing.... I.e. genetics.
Seasonal flu is an “all human virus”. The DNA/RNA chains that make up the virus are recognized by the human immune system. This means that your body has some immunity to it before it comes around each year... you get immunity two ways...through exposure to a virus, or by getting a flu shot.
Novel viruses, come from animals.... the WHO tracks novel viruses in animals, (sometimes for years watching for mutations). Usually these viruses only transfer from animal to animal (pigs in the case of H1N1) (birds in the case of the Spanish flu). But once, one of these animal viruses mutates, and starts to transfer from animals to humans... then it’s a problem, Why? Because we have no natural or acquired immunity.. the RNA sequencing of the genes inside the virus isn’t human, and the human immune system doesn’t recognize it so, we can’t fight it off.
Now.... sometimes, the mutation only allows transfer from animal to human, for years it’s only transmission is from an infected animal to a human before it finally mutates so that it can now transfer human to human... once that happens..we have a new contagion phase. And depending on the fashion of this new mutation, thats what decides how contagious, or how deadly it’s gonna be..
H1N1 was deadly....but it did not mutate in a way that was as deadly as the Spanish flu. It’s RNA was slower to mutate and it attacked its host differently, too.
Fast forward.
Now, here comes this Coronavirus... it existed in animals only, for nobody knows how long...but one day, at an animal market, in Wuhan China, in December 2019, it mutated and made the jump from animal to people. At first, only animals could give it to a person... But here is the scary part.... in just TWO WEEKS it mutated again and gained the ability to jump from human to human. Scientists call this quick ability, “slippery”
This Coronavirus, not being in any form a “human” virus (whereas we would all have some natural or acquired immunity). Took off like a rocket. And this was because, Humans have no known immunity...doctors have no known medicines for it.
And it just so happens that this particular mutated animal virus, changed itself in such a way the way that it causes great damage to human lungs..
That’s why Coronavirus is different from seasonal flu, or H1N1 or any other type of influenza.... this one is slippery AF. And it’s a lung eater...And, it’s already mutated AGAIN, so that we now have two strains to deal with, strain s, and strain L....which makes it twice as hard to develop a vaccine.
We really have no tools in our shed, with this. History has shown that fast and immediate closings of public places has helped in the past pandemics. Philadelphia and Baltimore were reluctant to close events in 1918 and they were the hardest hit in the US during the Spanish Flu.
Factoid: Henry VIII stayed in his room and allowed no one near him, till the Black Plague passed...(honestly...I understand him so much better now). Just like us, he had no tools in his shed, except social isolation...
And let me end by saying....right now it’s hitting older folks harder... but this genome is so slippery...if it mutates again (and it will). Who is to say, what it will do next.
Be smart folks... acting like you’re unafraid is so not sexy right now.
#flattenthecurve. Stay home folks... and share this to those that just are not catching on.

I Pray for all Americans &#55357;&#56911;&#55357;&#56911;&#55357;&#56911;


----------



## pirate_girl

People with certain blood types more vulnerable?


Experts in China have found that people with blood type A are more vulnerable to the strain of coronavirus, whereas people with type O seem to be more resistant. After analysing the blood patterns of more than 2,000 infected patients in China, the researchers found that those with type A blood showed a higher rate of infection and developed more severe symptoms. Those with O type tended to experience more mild symptoms from the disease, also called Sars-CoV-2.


https://www.express.co.uk/news/scie...update-vulnerable-list-diseases-blood-type-uk


----------



## m1west

pirate_girl said:


> People with certain blood types more vulnerable?
> 
> 
> Experts in China have found that people with blood type A are more vulnerable to the strain of coronavirus, whereas people with type O seem to be more resistant. After analysing the blood patterns of more than 2,000 infected patients in China, the researchers found that those with type A blood showed a higher rate of infection and developed more severe symptoms. Those with O type tended to experience more mild symptoms from the disease, also called Sars-CoV-2.
> 
> 
> https://www.express.co.uk/news/scie...update-vulnerable-list-diseases-blood-type-uk



I have suspected it was going after a genetic marker but blood type would work too.


----------



## road squawker

https://twitter.com/Groceryhound/status/1239619701145104385


----------



## Melensdad

Official count in the USA topped 11,200 today.  Almost double the number reported this morning.  

Again expected. This is due to getting back test results.  Should be double that in another day or two.


----------



## mla2ofus

Will be interesting to see if percent of deaths goes down as more test results come in.
Mike


----------



## pirate_girl

I'll link my source.

https://systems.jhu.edu/
There is a blog there.
At the bottom of the main page is a cluster map to click on.


----------



## tiredretired

mla2ofus said:


> Will be interesting to see if percent of deaths goes down as more test results come in.
> Mike



It will.  This disease is very nasty to elderly with issues.  Horrible.  It killed something like 30 people in that nursing home in Washington state.  

I'm not sure I would survive it or not, who knows but I sure as hell do not want to find out.


----------



## EastTexFrank

TiredRetired said:


> I'm not sure I would survive it or not, who knows but I sure as hell do not want to find out.



Me neither.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

Looks like there may be a light at the end of the tunnel. Researchers have been testing chloroquine on the coronavirus and have already tested patients who previously tested positive. I read earlier in another article that a patient who tested positive was given the drug on Monday and now tests negative for the virus. Hopefully this is good news and we can all get back to normal. 

https://www.thepostmillennial.com/canada-is-already-using-chloroquine-on-coronavirus-patients


----------



## tiredretired

NorthernRedneck said:


> Looks like there may be a light at the end of the tunnel. Researchers have been testing chloroquine on the coronavirus and have already tested patients who previously tested positive. I read earlier in another article that a patient who tested positive was given the drug on Monday and now tests negative for the virus. Hopefully this is good news and we can all get back to normal.
> 
> https://www.thepostmillennial.com/canada-is-already-using-chloroquine-on-coronavirus-patients



Yep, Trump was pushing like hell today to using it here as well.  Let's all hope and pray this works out.  We need some good news here.


----------



## EastTexFrank

I'm pretty familiar with Chloroquine as I took it for extended periods as a malaria prophylactic when I worked in Nigeria and Equatorial Guinea in West Africa.  I can see why it might work against carona virus and it's relatively cheap and should be readily available and easily produced.  It's been around forever.  Like most anti-malarial drugs, it does have some side effects but you choose the lesser of two evils.


----------



## road squawker

One question In have never heard asked or addressed.
Do the people that "survive" develop immunity to further infections?

would their bodies have developed antibodies the covid 19?

...  and would those antibodies be useful to develop an injection for other non infected people


----------



## m1west

Ca. just got a shelter in place and the closure of all non essential businesses order from the Governor


----------



## tiredretired

m1west said:


> Ca. just got a shelter in place and the closure of all non essential businesses order from the Governor



Martial law comes next.  I predict Gov. Gruesome will be the first to do so and appoint himself Emperor of California. 

Then we all know what he will do next.


----------



## m1west

TiredRetired said:


> Martial law comes next.  I predict Gov. Gruesome will be the first to do so and appoint himself Emperor of California.
> 
> Then we all know what he will do next.



And when the asshole does that I will be living on the mountain


----------



## JimVT

road squawker said:


> One question In have never heard asked or addressed.
> Do the people that "survive" develop immunity to further infections?
> 
> would their bodies have developed antibodies the covid 19?
> 
> ...  and would those antibodies be useful to develop an injection for other non infected people



trump talked about that in his speech. they are researching it.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

Italy saw a record number of deaths last night. Not good. 

https://www.rt.com/news/483666-italy-coronavirus-record-death-toll/


----------



## NorthernRedneck

I had a few things waiting at the border and saw that effective 11:59 tonight the border is closed to all regular travel so I just made a run down. It's an hour drive from here. 

Commercial trade and shipping is still being allowed across.


----------



## leadarrows

Until the number match these I don't give a shit. Paybacks a bitch ant it.


It's all BS anyway. More people die of the flu. In fact I bet this years high flu rates were in part this anyway.


----------



## Melensdad

leadarrows said:


> ...
> It's all BS anyway. More people die of the flu. In fact I bet this years high flu rates were in part this anyway.



I don't disagree with your first point.

As to the BS part, this is not a disease where you worry about people dying.  Comparing death rates to the flu is actually a bit silly.  

The problem is the rate of people who end up in the hospital with this disease and need ICU care.  Very few people with the flu need to go to the hospital.  But depending upon the healthcare system you look at where Covid has hit, roughly 12 to 20% of the people end up in the hospital in SERIOUS condition.  That overwhelms hospitals.  There simply are not enough rooms.  And many of those end up in ICU units and require ventilators for breathing.  Again, that doesn't happen with the seasonal flu.  So we will run out of hospital space and run short of available ventilators if the researchers can't find a better way to treat the serious cases.


----------



## mla2ofus

I have a silly question. How can you have partial abortions?? ie: 79,958.6, how can there be 6 tenths of an abortion??
Mike


----------



## Melensdad




----------



## EastTexFrank

Melensdad said:


>



Bob, I never thought that I'd say this but you are a sick little puppy.


----------



## Melensdad

EastTexFrank said:


> Bob, I never thought that I'd say this but you are a sick little puppy.



Frank, not sure, is this guy your neighbor or mine 


VIDEO =>  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTYxDMYKyiI#action=share


----------



## EastTexFrank

Melensdad said:


> Frank, not sure, is this guy your neighbor or mine
> 
> 
> VIDEO =>  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTYxDMYKyiI#action=share



That is hilarious.  

He must be yours.  Since my neighbor died last year two of his middle aged kids have been living at his place.  One is a schizo Muslim who just got out of the nut house … again, and his sister who is a nutty, but not crazy, vegan who is covered in tattoos.  After 22 years of peace and quiet, things have got interesting at my house.  I'm lucky that they are far enough away that I don't have to deal with them unless I meet them at the gate.  

I've been sitting up on my little hill for 5 days.  Yesterday the State, County and City announced a "State of Disaster" until the 3rd April.  That's another 2 weeks.  It means that just about everything is shut down, it basically was anyway.  The nearest case to me at the moment is in Tyler, 30 miles away, where there are 8 cases but Tyler is a medical hub with 2 large hospital complexes.  There's no telling where those 8 cases came from.  I actually feel pretty safe at the house.


----------



## Doc

the power of social distancing.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

So far, knock on wood, we haven't had any near me. Yet which is surprising as it's a city of 110000 with roughly 10000 in nearby communities. The closest case reported today was about 8 hours away.


----------



## EastTexFrank

I think that it is important to be careful but not get carried away in the hysteria.  A lot of us on here live out in the country and not in the densely populated cities where different rules may apply.  My front gate is closed and locked.  To come anywhere close to my house you have to climb over a fence which in Texas is trespassing and opens up a whole different set of rules and regulations, most of which I am familiar with.  No, I sit on my own little part of God's country and feel relatively safe and secure.  

Because things are so virus peaceful around here we make a trip for groceries next week, primarily for fresh veg.  After a week we really need to replenish salad stuff.  Do we need to?  No!  But if you have the opportunity, why not?  I'm trying to not get paranoid about all this while still retaining my Scottish pragmatism.


----------



## pirate_girl

https://www.crescent-news.com/on_th...cle_4dc624c4-b7dd-58fc-a081-b54762a492c6.html

https://www.wtol.com/mobile


----------



## Melensdad

EastTexFrank said:


> ...
> 
> Because things are so virus peaceful around here we make a trip for groceries next week, primarily for fresh veg.  After a week we really need to replenish salad stuff.  Do we need to?  No!  *But if you have the opportunity, why not? * I'm trying to not get paranoid about all this while still retaining my Scottish pragmatism.


*
This is my take on it too.

There may come a time when the opportunity no longer exists.  But for now...*

We have a few cases in my county.  I expect a full blown explosion of them due to our proximity to major metro areas.  But out here the air is clean, the coyotes sing at night and deer play dodgeball in traffic.  Wouldn't be surprised if people up or down my road get it but I can't see them from here and they can't see me from there.  Social distance is something we live.  Honestly I don't even know most of my neighbors, been living here 25+ years, most others only a fraction of that, but we don't mingle with the neighbors.  I wave to most of them.  

I suspect that my public shopping_ 'window of opportunity'_ will close faster than many other FORUM-FORUM members because of the Chicago-Gary metro area being at my backdoor, but if I can stay on my property then I will be safe.  I'm far enough out to see the glow of the city lights in the northern sky, but in a pandemic I'm still plenty close enough that people venture up to the suburban/urban madness.

The lovely Mrs_Bob has already dictated that only 1 car will be used for raiding trips into the town to go to the market/pharmacy.  That vehicle will only be driven by her.  She will carry sanitizer ON HER PERSON and also INSIDE the vehicle.  She decided that she will be the ONLY family member to go to town and only sparingly.  I have rheumatoid arthritis so she says I am at risk.  Melen is diabetic, she is at risk.  So the lovely Mrs_Bob decided we shall not leave and be allowed to co-mingle with the townsfolk.

She also decided that she will strip off her outer layer of clothes in the garage, proceed to the shower, and shower upon her return home.

We will see how all that goes.  

But we currently have a few months worth of food, toilet paper and other supplies.  Meds are the weak spot.  Monthly trip to CVS will be required.  They have a drive thru.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

We can all try and avoid it but at some point almost all of us are going to get exposed.  In some cases it might be better to get it now before all the hospitals are overloaded.

In Italy they are only admitting patients under the age of 50 to the icu.  Triage is a cruel but necessary thing when the


----------



## EastTexFrank

PBinWA said:


> We can all try and avoid it but at some point almost all of us are going to get exposed.  In some cases it might be better to get it now before all the hospitals are overloaded.



In many ways that is true but I am 73-years old now and have type 2 diabetes so I'm in a high risk category.  I've been banned from going to town for any reason.  Any visits to the big city, 5K people, will be done by my wife.  She is 72 years old but has no underlying conditions.  She is going to research the grocery store's curbside delivery where you call in your order, they fill it and deliver it to your car.  They also have people in all night cleaning and restocking.  The first hour every day is specifically for old people before it opens to the public.  So, they are trying.  

I'll have to see if I can get my wife to strip down in the garage before she comes back in the house.  It's getting boring around here.


----------



## EastTexFrank

Well, that didn't work!

My lovely wife just spent an hour going through the grocery store's web site ordering stuff for curbside pick-up.  After placing the order she got an earliest pick-up date of 4pm on *March 30th*.  That's 9 days from now.  I guess their new service is really busy and I sure hope that you are not starving to death.  

The good lady says that she is going to be there at 8am tomorrow morning when they open, run in, get some fresh veg  and "stuff" and head on home.  I'll let you know about stripping off in the garage.


----------



## tiredretired

Looking to take advantage of the supermarkets opening up early strictly for the geriatric crowd.   We are all set until shortly after the first of April, then I want replenish our stash after over two weeks of usage. 

I think it is best every two weeks or so going forward to restock just in case. Of course, if things change for the worse those plans will change as well.  

I hope by then all the horders will be stuffed to the gills so us old farts can shop in peace and talk about how good it used to be in the old days.  :th_lmao:


----------



## tiredretired

PBinWA said:


> We can all try and avoid it but at some point almost all of us are going to get exposed.  In some cases it might be better to get it now before all the hospitals are overloaded.
> 
> In Italy they are only admitting patients under the age of 50 to the icu.  Triage is a cruel but necessary thing when the



No, the wife and I are too old to take any chances.  My bride has asthma and uses an inhaler when she needs it, mostly a seasonal thing.  Me, I am 71, in good health with no serious conditions, but the calendar is against me big time.  Besides, even if I were to survive it, no way I want to spread it to her and spend the next two weeks gasping for breath.  

If we were still 40 or so, I would more readily agree with you.


----------



## EastTexFrank

TiredRetired said:


> Looking to take advantage of the supermarkets opening up early strictly for the geriatric crowd.   We are all set until shortly after the first of April, then I want replenish our stash after over two weeks of usage.



We've only been at it for a week really but my wife is going to make a grocery run first thing tomorrow morning for veggies.  They're not strictly necessary but she desperately wants to have stuff to make a salad.  She'll probably pick up some other stuff if there's anything there.  We don't know so she'll just have to see.  Otherwise we're still good.


----------



## tiredretired

EastTexFrank said:


> We've only been at it for a week really but my wife is going to make a grocery run first thing tomorrow morning for veggies.  They're not strictly necessary but she desperately wants to have stuff to make a salad.  She'll probably pick up some other stuff if there's anything there.  We don't know so she'll just have to see.  Otherwise we're still good.



As long as you can keep a balanced diet that is not going to hurt your immune system one bit.  Maybe even keep it in tip top shape.  Never has that been more important than now. 

Our fresh veggie supply will be totally exhausted by the end of next week if not a bit sooner.  That's OK, we have plenty of canned and frozen for just that eventuality.  I'm not a big fan of canned veggies due to the salt content, so they are the last resort.


----------



## Melensdad

We have surpassed 300,000 coronavirus cases worldwide.

Some perspective:

the first 100,000 took 3 months
the second 100,000 took 12 days
the third 100,000 took 3 days


----------



## Bannedjoe

Since we sometimes have that wash that comes up a few times or more each year, we keep a pretty good stock of canned and dried goods on hand.

Our little chest freezer is packed, and so is the one on top of the fridge.

But if things get really bad, there's an abundance of rabbits and free range cattle all over the place.

I know how to deal with rabbits, but I've never whacked a cow before.
There's always calves everywhere that haven't been tagged yet too.

I've been searching the net for information on how to age, and store meat, but it mostly looks like the only thing a person without a walk in refrigerator can do is make jerky.
Most sites say the meat needs to hang at least 10 days.

Most said a freshly killed steak isn't much fun.
I'm still reading up though.


----------



## Doc

Some good news.  I pray it is accurate.  
From a very long article with lots of charts and graphs.   This was recommended to me by someone in the medical field.  

----------------------
*A low probability of catching COVID-19*
The World Health Organization (“WHO”) released a study on how China responded to COVID-19. Currently, this study is one of the most exhaustive pieces published on how the virus spreads.
The results of their research show that COVID-19 doesn’t spread as easily as we first thought or the media had us believe (remember people abandoned their dogs out of fear of getting infected). According to their report if you come in contact with someone who tests positive for COVID-19 you have a 1–5% chance of catching it as well. The variability is large because the infection is based on the type of contact and how long.

The majority of viral infections come from prolonged exposures in confined spaces with other infected individuals. Person-to-person and surface contact is by far the most common cause. From the WHO report, “When a cluster of several infected people occurred in China, it was most often (78–85%) caused by an infection within the family by droplets and other carriers of infection in close contact with an infected person.
Entire article here:  https://medium.com/six-four-six-nine/evidence-over-hysteria-covid-19-1b767def5894

It might ask you to sign up but you can refuse and still see the article.


----------



## Melensdad

Doc said:


> Some good news.  I pray it is accurate.
> ...
> Entire article here:  https://medium.com/six-four-six-nine/evidence-over-hysteria-covid-19-1b767def5894
> 
> It might ask you to sign up but you can refuse and still see the article.



So one of the charts really caught my eye.  

Look the USA is very low on the list, and has barely surpassed China.  WOW that looks like great news.  Right?

But this is very misleading and could confuse people and lead them toward complacency.  China has had a FAST moving virus among their population for 4+ months.  We are* just getting started* here in the USA.  But you look at this chart and think wow we are in great shape while Europe is burning down.  

Very misleading.  Very.


----------



## norscaner

Really  folks  listen to your leader ...its gonna be terrific...the best ever ...He has your health in his hands


----------



## tiredretired

Doc said:


> Some good news.  I pray it is accurate.
> From a very long article with lots of charts and graphs.   This was recommended to me by someone in the medical field.
> 
> ----------------------
> *A low probability of catching COVID-19*
> The World Health Organization (“WHO”) released a study on how China responded to COVID-19. Currently, this study is one of the most exhaustive pieces published on how the virus spreads.
> The results of their research show that COVID-19 doesn’t spread as easily as we first thought or the media had us believe (remember people abandoned their dogs out of fear of getting infected). According to their report if you come in contact with someone who tests positive for COVID-19 you have a 1–5% chance of catching it as well. The variability is large because the infection is based on the type of contact and how long.
> 
> The majority of viral infections come from prolonged exposures in confined spaces with other infected individuals. Person-to-person and surface contact is by far the most common cause. From the WHO report, “When a cluster of several infected people occurred in China, it was most often (78–85%) caused by an infection within the family by droplets and other carriers of infection in close contact with an infected person.
> Entire article here:  https://medium.com/six-four-six-nine/evidence-over-hysteria-covid-19-1b767def5894
> 
> It might ask you to sign up but you can refuse and still see the article.



No offense Doc, but I gotta tell you, at this point, anything the WHO says is suspect. They are part of the UN and I would no more trust them with my life than I would a Democrat.

Stay the course people.  We will get through this.  We are Americans and that is what Americans do.


----------



## Bannedjoe

norscaner said:


> Really  folks  listen to your leader ...its gonna be terrific...the best ever ...He has your health in his hands



You know what, the guy is the president, not your Mommy.
He's just a man, and I'm guessing he's doing the best he can with what he has to work with.

If you could do better, you should sign up for the job.


----------



## tiredretired

Bannedjoe said:


> You know what, the guy is the president, not your Mommy.
> He's just a man, and I'm guessing he's doing the best he can with what he has to work with.
> 
> If you could do better, you should sign up for the job.



What he said!!!^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Thats the trouble now Joe, these snowflakes want a mommy to tuck them into bed each night and kiss em on the cheek and tell then its all rainbows and lollipops.  

The whiners are not the ones that is going to get the job done.  It's the doers.


----------



## pirate_girl

https://www.13abc.com/content/news/...s-for-developmentally-disabled-568997331.html


----------



## tiredretired

pirate_girl said:


> https://www.13abc.com/content/news/...s-for-developmentally-disabled-568997331.html
> 
> View attachment 124863
> 
> View attachment 124864
> 
> View attachment 124865



You stay safe PG.  We have locally 6 health care workers at a nursing home test positive.  Things are not getting better right now.  Not a bit.

Positive attitudes right now are needed by all.


----------



## mla2ofus

After the initial buying panic our grocery got most everything restocked except TP. I can't figure why the people of our area, county population 7,000, can't seem to buy enough TP. What amazed me was I went to our vets yesterday to buy dog and cat food. Bought the last large bag of each and they said so far they can't get any more bags that size. I don't think the panic buying is crazy, it's absolutely stupid!!
Mike


----------



## tiredretired

mla2ofus said:


> After the initial buying panic our grocery got most everything restocked except TP. I can't figure why the people of our area, county population 7,000, can't seem to buy enough TP. What amazed me was I went to our vets yesterday to buy dog and cat food. Bought the last large bag of each and they said so far they can't get any more bags that size. I don't think the panic buying is crazy, it's absolutely stupid!!
> Mike



Talking to a friend today on the phone and he told me there is a sign at the local Costco saying they will NOT accept returns on hoarded items.  I assume they are referring to TP.  :th_lmao::th_lmao:


----------



## pirate_girl

TiredRetired said:


> You stay safe PG.  We have locally 6 health care workers at a nursing home test positive.  Things are not getting better right now.  Not a bit.
> 
> Positive attitudes right now are needed by all.



Thanks dear, we're doing all we can.
Yes! Positive alllll the way.


----------



## pirate_girl

mla2ofus said:


> After the initial buying panic our grocery got most everything restocked except TP. I can't figure why the people of our area, county population 7,000, can't seem to buy enough TP. What amazed me was I went to our vets yesterday to buy dog and cat food. Bought the last large bag of each and they said so far they can't get any more bags that size. I don't think the panic buying is crazy, it's absolutely stupid!!
> Mike



I think the toilet paper thing is stupid and way out of control.
Some of these people are just buying it like crazy because they know it's THE THING right now.


----------



## pirate_girl

norscaner said:


> Really  folks  listen to your leader ...its gonna be terrific...the best ever ...He has your health in his hands



The president is attempting to calm a nation of people in hysterics and panic (well, some - not all).
I'm listening to the Ohio Department of Health and the governor and local leaders.


----------



## Bannedjoe

I took the backroad to the post office yesterday.
It's about 20 miles of sometimes/sometimes not maintained roads (each direction).
I saw these guys on it, I've heard they're edible too!
Though I don't think I could ever blast a wild Burro.


----------



## pirate_girl

I don't know if we touched upon this here or not.
Ibuprofen.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/me...e-coronavirus-make-symptoms-worse/ar-BB11pDKG


----------



## tiredretired

pirate_girl said:


> I don't know if we touched upon this here or not.
> Ibuprofen.
> https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/me...e-coronavirus-make-symptoms-worse/ar-BB11pDKG



Yep, my wife was saying that the other day.  Apparently our bottle of Tylenol has 4 pills in it with an expiration date of 2015.  LOL.  I wonder if there is any of that on the shelves or they are hoarding that as well.  

I think all Tylenol comes from China.  Unbelievable.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

I picked up a bottle of tylenol the other day when I was picking up some prescription meds for my daughter. It was the last one they had. We normally use ibuprofen.


----------



## Bannedjoe

Kind of amazing.
It wasn't all that long ago during another major crises/panic/scare that no one would go within 100 yards of a bottle of Tylenol.
And it's still unknown who was responsible that.


----------



## tiredretired

Bannedjoe said:


> I took the backroad to the post office yesterday.
> It's about 20 miles of sometimes/sometimes not maintained roads (each direction).
> I saw these guys on it, I've heard they're edible too!
> Though I don't think I could ever blast a wild Burro.



Edible?  Sure, but I'll bet the meat is tougher than a boiled owl.  Of course in a SHTF situation boiled oil looks damn good, right?  :th_lmao:


----------



## Melensdad

pirate_girl said:


> I don't know if we touched upon this here or not.
> Ibuprofen.
> https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/me...e-coronavirus-make-symptoms-worse/ar-BB11pDKG



And now the WHO, which initially agreed that we should not take Ibuprofen, says it is OK to take Ibuprofen.  

So now it is apparently OK to take Ibuprofen, according to Columbia University and WHO.

https://www.sfgate.com/science/article/Should-you-take-ibuprofen-if-you-have-COVID-19-15143646.php



> *WHO reverses advice on ibuprofen and COVID-19:*
> Should you take it?
> WHO spokesman Christian Lindmeier said that while UN health experts are investigating the matter, “we recommend using rather paracetamol [acetaminophen], and *do not use ibuprofen* as a self-medication.”
> 
> But a day later, WHO reversed itself.
> 
> "Based on currently available information, *WHO does not recommend against the use of ibuprofen*,” the organization tweeted.
> 
> Angela L. Rasmussen, Ph.D, an associate research scientist at the Columbia University Mailman School of Public Health Center for Infection and Immunity, told Healio Primary Care that “*there is no current evidence that ibuprofen specifically impacts COVID-19 disease severity*.”​


----------



## Doc

*
History Will Remember*


----------



## pirate_girl

Or..

A nasal aspirate. This involves injecting saline solution into your nose, and then removing the sample with gentle suction.

A tracheal aspirate. A thin, lighted tube called a bronchoscope will be put down your mouth and into your lungs, where a sample will be collected.

A sputum test. Sputum is a thick mucus that’s coughed up from the lungs. If you have a mucousy cough, you may be asked to cough up sputum into a special cup, or a special swab may be used to take a sample from your nose.

A blood sample. This is just like a standard blood test: A healthcare professional will take a blood sample from a vein in your arm.


----------



## pirate_girl

Melensdad said:


> And now the WHO, which initially agreed that we should not take Ibuprofen, says it is OK to take Ibuprofen.
> 
> So now it is apparently OK to take Ibuprofen, according to Columbia University and WHO.
> 
> https://www.sfgate.com/science/article/Should-you-take-ibuprofen-if-you-have-COVID-19-15143646.php


Thanks Bob.
There are a lot of suggestions/cautions right now on many things.
More recently the use of copper being a good thing, whether it be cooking utensils, supplements or anything at all copper.
If taking a supplement, make sure there is zinc to back it up.
Right now there is a study going on about the use of melatonin in the elderly, particularly touching upon how it has a positive impact on lung issues both in those who've had prior concerns as well as it being a protective factor.


----------



## mla2ofus

The thing I've read and heard about ibuprofen is it's hard on the stomach and liver. whether it's fact or not I don't know. We've used acetaminifen(sp) for years and don't seem to suffer any ill effects.
Mike


----------



## tiredretired

People, just be careful, is all I ask, when it comes to the WHO.  They are NOT our friends.  Maybe at one time they were, but as part of the UN that hate our guts, they hate our beliefs and it would be very wise to take whatever they say with a grain of salt.  If you choose to trust them, verify, in the words of Ronald Reagan. What does the CDC say about Tylenol v. Ibuprophen I wonder.  

Case in point.


----------



## pirate_girl




----------



## Doc

*This model predicts the last day each state can act before they hit the point of no return.   *

See a forecast for how long each US state has until COVID-19 overwhelms hospitals and how interventions could flatten the curve:

https://covidactnow.org/?fbclid=IwAR2MbL7VVUq1iWLP9yL0rPLWN6Mid2OjwZJlb4f5QOTvIOYxK1jqIUW4cyk


----------



## FrancSevin

pirate_girl said:


> View attachment 124879
> 
> Or..
> 
> A nasal aspirate. This involves injecting saline solution into your nose, and then removing the sample with gentle suction.
> 
> A tracheal aspirate. A thin, lighted tube called a bronchoscope will be put down your mouth and into your lungs, where a sample will be collected.
> 
> A sputum test. Sputum is a thick mucus that’s coughed up from the lungs. If you have a mucousy cough, you may be asked to cough up sputum into a special cup, or a special swab may be used to take a sample from your nose.
> 
> A blood sample. This is just like a standard blood test: A healthcare professional will take a blood sample from a vein in your arm.



Thanks PG.
That explains the increased high demand for our Low Absorption 6MM swab.
We had no idea it was for nasal sampling.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

Some good news on the coronavirus front. 


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52000173


----------



## Melensdad

That is almost as good as a cure!


----------



## tiredretired

Some things just do not seem to be adding up, people.  

The US coronavirus mortality rate dipped to 1.25% on Sunday using deaths (396) divided by confirmed cases (38,167).

The mortality rate for the coronavirus in the US continues to fall as more and more Americans are being tested.

12 days ago the US coronavirus mortality rate was 4.06

*Today the mortality rate is down to 1.25%!*

4.06% March 8 (22 deaths of 541 cases)
3.69% March 9 (26 of 704)
3.01% March 10 (30 of 994)
2.95% March 11 (38 of 1,295)
2.52% March 12 (42 of 1,695)
2.27% March 13 (49 of 2,247)
1.93% March 14 (57 of 2,954)
1.84% March 15 (68 of 3,680)
1.6% March 17 (116 of 7,301)
1.4% March 19 (161 of 11,329)
1.25% March 20 (237 of 18,845)
01.25% March 22 (396 of 38,167)

*But this number may actually be much lower.*

Hospitals and urgent care clinics are turning potential COVID-19 victims away on a daily basis.  We all now know someone who was told not to come in to be tested because officials were only concentrating on the seriously ill.

That means the current mortality rate is SIGNIFICANTLY lower if you factor in ALL OF THE CASES that are not being reported, and where people are not feeling sick enough to be tested.

*That number could be 6-7 times higher than the current number of 38,167 as a recent study suggests.*
*
That puts the coronavirus mortality rate in the US at 0.1% to 0.2%.  This is similar number to a flu virus.*


----------



## NorthernRedneck

Our province is closing all non essential services for 14 days. 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toro...QndyzH2YDdsEJhWoa4v63B_qwyzqduTxXaW5HJKe6jZHc

The problem I see with this is that sure, we can do it but if others don't at the same time, this will just keep cycling around. This doesn't need to be a provincial effort, not even a country effort. Problem is that for a 14 day self isolation quarantine to be successful in beating this thing, it has to be a global shut down. Try coordinating that.


----------



## FrancSevin

TiredRetired said:


> Some things just do not seem to be adding up, people.
> 
> The US coronavirus mortality rate dipped to 1.25% on Sunday using deaths (396) divided by confirmed cases (38,167).
> 
> The mortality rate for the coronavirus in the US continues to fall as more and more Americans are being tested.
> 
> 12 days ago the US coronavirus mortality rate was 4.06
> 
> *Today the mortality rate is down to 1.25%!*
> 
> 4.06% March 8 (22 deaths of 541 cases)
> 3.69% March 9 (26 of 704)
> 3.01% March 10 (30 of 994)
> 2.95% March 11 (38 of 1,295)
> 2.52% March 12 (42 of 1,695)
> 2.27% March 13 (49 of 2,247)
> 1.93% March 14 (57 of 2,954)
> 1.84% March 15 (68 of 3,680)
> 1.6% March 17 (116 of 7,301)
> 1.4% March 19 (161 of 11,329)
> 1.25% March 20 (237 of 18,845)
> 01.25% March 22 (396 of 38,167)
> 
> *But this number may actually be much lower.*
> 
> Hospitals and urgent care clinics are turning potential COVID-19 victims away on a daily basis. We all now know someone who was told not to come in to be tested because officials were only concentrating on the seriously ill.
> 
> That means the current mortality rate is SIGNIFICANTLY lower if you factor in ALL OF THE CASES that are not being reported, and where people are not feeling sick enough to be tested.
> 
> *That number could be 6-7 times higher than the current number of 38,167 as a recent study suggests.*
> *
> That puts the coronavirus mortality rate in the US at 0.1% to 0.2%. This is similar number to a flu virus.*


Whilst this seems to be good news, let us remember that in reality we cannot directly compare this disease progression to the annual rise and fall of the common flu.

Given the draconian steps taken by the Government, steps not normally taken to combat the annual flu contagion, the number of deaths had better be lowered. Thereby skewing the death rate lower than would be normal for this disease.

A good thing yes, but I would suggest we not get too cocky about it. 

Keep in mind that Italy and Spain are suffering much higher mortalities than are we in the USA. This Corona-19 virus is not the same as the common, but deadly, influenza. I suspect there is something sinister the Government is not telling us about the origin and nature of this COVID-19 pandemic.

Sorry to go "Conspiracy theory" but as TR points out, "things just don't add up."


----------



## Bannedjoe

FrancSevin said:


> Whilst this seems to be good news, let us remember that in reality we cannot directly compare this disease progression to the annual rise and fall of the common flu.
> 
> Given the draconian steps taken by the Government, steps not normally taken to combat the annual flu contagion, the number of deaths had better be lowered. Thereby skewing the death rate lower than would be normal for this disease.
> 
> A good thing yes, but I would suggest we not get too cocky about it.
> 
> Keep in mind that Italy and Spain are suffering much higher mortalities than are we in the USA. This Corona-19 virus is not the same as the common, but deadly, influenza. I suspect there is something sinister the Government is not telling us about the origin and nature of this COVID-19 pandemic.
> 
> Sorry to go "Conspiracy theory" but as TR points out, "things just don't add up."



I have a hard time not believing this might be practice to see how people respond to martial law.
But I would think that much more firmly if this was only happening in the USA.
Like many earth changing crises, we may never know the truth.


----------



## Melensdad

*I still do not understand why people keep concentrating on the MORTALITY rate?*

The problem is not actually how many die. * It is how many need to be hospitalized*.  

If the flu is 0.1% and Covid-19 ends up being 0.1% that is not going to mean these are EQUAL health problems.

The problem with Covid-19 is the number of people who need CRITICAL CARE in a hospital.  That seems to be something in the neighborhood of 15% depending upon which country we look at for guidance.  And typically those hospitalized require *2 to 3 weeks* of care versus less than 1 week for those with a seasonal flu.

With the seasonal Flu roughly 10% of the population catches it.  With Covid-19 the estimates are that 30% to 70% of the population will get it.  

Roughly 30% of 335,000,000 US residents = 100 Million infected.  
Assuming 15% of those require hospitalization that is 15,000,000 hospital beds required.

15,000,000 hospital beds?  Heck, be optimistic and cut that in half.  Then be really optimistic and cut that number in half again.  We are at 3.5 MILLION beds required.  Compare that to the seasonal flu.  

Preliminary Numbers from the CDC website for the SEASONAL FLU:
2018/19 Flu INFECTED = 35,520,883 
2018/19 Flu HOSPITALIZED = 490,561 
2018/19 Flu DEATHS = 34,157


----------



## Bannedjoe

Maybe it's time we all just go out, catch it, cut our losses, and quit worrying.


----------



## tiredretired

Melensdad said:


> *I still do not understand why people keep concentrating on the MORTALITY rate?*



Well, I certainly cannot speak for everyone here, but I can speak for myself.  

I would much prefer not to die, so those death numbers kinda catch my eye.  

Seriously speaking though, I hear what you are saying about the curve and the need to stay under it. 

For me I am struggling with what I believe and what I think I should be very skeptical in.  I am not buying all in, but I am not poo pooing this thing either or I would not be celebrating Day 11 of my house arrest.


----------



## Melensdad

Healthcare gets overwhelmed and the death rate for older people will skyrocket.  

See Spain and Italy!


----------



## Melensdad

So at lunchtime I dropped off 2 boxes of 12ga shotshells with my Godson's father.

He was upset that his plans to go to Colorado skiing were cancelled due to Covid-19.  He actually wanted to bring his family over to our house to pick up the shotshells and visit for a while.  WTF?  And then he proceeds to tell me that his daughter wants him to her back to college to pick up her stuff despite the fact that the campus is locked down.  

His wife texted this evening saying they are now making plans to go to California in a couple months for vacation, they figure that the virus should be gone by that time?  

The Summer Olympics are cancelled.  Entire nations have stopped travel into their countries.  Universities have cancelled graduations.  But these people think the virus will be gone in 2 months?

Hmmm...

These are college educated, white collar people and they are totally clueless about what is happening around them.


----------



## tiredretired

Melensdad said:


> So at lunchtime I dropped off 2 boxes of 12ga shotshells with my Godson's father.
> 
> He was upset that his plans to go to Colorado skiing were cancelled due to Covid-19.  He actually wanted to bring his family over to our house to pick up the shotshells and visit for a while.  WTF?  And then he proceeds to tell me that his daughter wants him to her back to college to pick up her stuff despite the fact that the campus is locked down.
> 
> His wife texted this evening saying they are now making plans to go to California in a couple months for vacation, they figure that the virus should be gone by that time?
> 
> The Summer Olympics are cancelled.  Entire nations have stopped travel into their countries.  Universities have cancelled graduations.  But these people think the virus will be gone in 2 months?
> 
> Hmmm...
> 
> These are college educated, white collar people and they are totally clueless about what is happening around them.



....and the first ones that will be eating out of a dumpster if the shit really hits the fan.  Pathetic creatures.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

Wonder where the virus started? 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=X0Y4SFz_A-c


----------



## EastTexFrank

NorthernRedneck said:


> Wonder where the virus started?
> 
> https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=X0Y4SFz_A-c



I've seen markets like that in other parts of the world.  It's little wonder that diseases jump from animals to humans.


----------



## pirate_girl

NorthernRedneck said:


> Wonder where the virus started?
> 
> https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=X0Y4SFz_A-c



I got very disturbed seeing the dogs.
I felt sick seeing the bats.


----------



## pirate_girl

Received this email from Verizon.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

NorthernRedneck said:


> Wonder where the virus started?
> 
> https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=X0Y4SFz_A-c




This and there is of course "no coincidence" that the Wuhan Institute of Virology exists in the exact same place that this all started.

 Hey underpaid employee can you please dispose of all these animals we just tested this strain of coronavirus on?  Underpaid employee .... "sure" .... takes infected animals to wet market to supplement his crappy income.

But of course this would never happen because China has such a strong reputation for not cutting corners or making unethical decisions in the pursuit of profit (in the name of survival under a totalitarian regime).


----------



## NorthernRedneck

It's spreading. Up here Trudeau is going to enforce the emergency measures act to for people to stay home for 14 days. 

https://nypost.com/2020/03/22/nypds-covid-19-cases-near-100-as-hundreds-more-cops-call-out-sick/


----------



## m1west

NorthernRedneck said:


> It's spreading. Up here Trudeau is going to enforce the emergency measures act to for people to stay home for 14 days.
> 
> https://nypost.com/2020/03/22/nypds-covid-19-cases-near-100-as-hundreds-more-cops-call-out-sick/



That is a problem here too. some are responsible and keep a low profile while others say screw it and go party. Unless everyone participates its all for not.


----------



## Bannedjoe

I'm fairly certain there will be a point real soon where the bored and restless here just say screw it.
Or it's decided the damage from the caution just isn't worth it.

I think we're going to start seeing people react to this a lot stronger than hoarding toilet paper pretty soon.
No one likes to be told what to do, and at first there may have been largely reluctant compliance with the shelter at home concept.
My read is that people are not only bored at this point, they are feeling agitated and restless.
They're not only buying up toilet paper, but buying up guns and ammo.

How many times now has the mass purchasing of guns happened in the last some odd years?

IIRC, a gun rush happened just just before Obabma became president. People were worried that he'd come for guns, and stocks got depleted.
Surprisingly, he didn't come for guns right off the bat.
Things settled back down.
Then just before the next election, the repubs wanted to make him look bad, and jammed him up asking WTF he was going to do about guns, so he was forced to take a stance.

The R's then went to the public yelling, SEE???? we told you that's what he was going to do, and a long time of empty gun stores happened again almost immediately.

Here we are again, another gun buying frenzy, but this time people are going broke, hungry, tired, frustrated, bored, and above all scared.
This is a perfect scenario for utter chaos.

I believe in guns, I love guns, but sumbitch, there's a whole lot of guns and ammo out there, more than there probably has ever been in history.

Wise people better stay wise, stupid people better get smart.
The best we can hope for is a "Just in time" solution to this whole matter.


----------



## pirate_girl

Out in California, they don't appear to give a damn.
Groups of people on the beaches like nothing at all is going on.


----------



## Bannedjoe

pirate_girl said:


> Out in California, they don't appear to give a damn.
> Groups of people on the beaches like nothing at all is going on.



I could see it.
At least on the beach they're not confined in close quarters.
I'd be willing to bet the virus doesn't do well in salt water.
And...there's things to eat out there!!!


----------



## NorthernRedneck

Just announced that prince Charles tested positive for the coronavirus. 


https://www.thedailybeast.com/prince-charles-tests-positive-for-coronavirus?ref=scroll


----------



## Melensdad

Yup.  The cartoon bobble head of the royal family.  The queen is the one to protect, she is the last of the regal monarchs.


----------



## 300 H and H

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DAI3c9wE0Q[/ame]

Interesting piece on the possible connection to this virus, and it's origins. 

It could be this thing came from the University of North Carolina's bio weapons laboratory. There were scientists from Wuhan who were working there. Stolen" Perhaps, or bought from someone inside...

This weaponizing virus's has got to stop on a global level. Other wise mankind might just kill itself....

Regards, Kirk


----------



## pirate_girl

Melensdad said:


> Yup.  The cartoon bobble head of the royal family.  The queen is the one to protect, she is the last of the regal monarchs.



???
I think anyone is the one to protect.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Melensdad said:


> Yup.  The cartoon bobble head of the royal family.  The queen is the one to protect, she is the last of the regal monarchs.




The world would be a better place without any monarchs.  That family has leeched enough from their people over the years.  The old hag is as complicit in the crimes as the rest of that "institution"

Burn it all down.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Funny they don't say who the President was during 2009 ... https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/h...ry-ran-out-of-a-75-cent-face-mask/ar-BB11GgLi


----------



## FrancSevin

About six months ago we did Three million single use samples of Purell(tm) I discovered them last week in the QA sample/retention room. I have about a 1,000 samples left over and have been handing them out at,,,; Gas stations.
Gas pump handles are possibly the most corrupted devices we all take for granted. Wear gloves or use a plastic grocery bag when pumping fuel.

BTW: I have yet to have anyone refuse the Purell samples.


----------



## Jim_S RIP

FrancSevin said:


> About six months ago we did Three million single use samples of Purell(tm) I discovered them last week in the QA sample/retention room. I have about a 1,000 samples left over and have been handing them out at,,,; Gas stations.
> Gas pump handles are possibly the most corrupted devices we all take for granted. Wear gloves or use a plastic grocery bag when pumping fuel.
> 
> BTW: I have yet to have anyone refuse the Purell samples.



You have any toilet paper samples you could pass out?

Asking for a friend . . .

:th_lmao:


----------



## NorthernRedneck

jim slagle said:


> You have any toilet paper samples you could pass out?
> 
> 
> 
> Asking for a friend . . .
> 
> 
> 
> :th_lmao:


New or used?

[emoji23]


----------



## pixie

A local booze distillery has sent away for some glycerin and is going to make a high proof alcohol into bulk hand sanitizer.

Farther north, the paper mill that makes private label 'bath tissue' has made thier White Mountain brand available locally. 
Interesting to me that the paper pulp comes from somewhere else in trucks and the mill makes a giant huge roll of TP and ships that somewhere else by truck to be made into consumer size rolls.


----------



## Melensdad

pixie said:


> A local booze distillery has sent away for some glycerin and is going to make a high proof alcohol into bulk hand sanitizer.
> 
> Farther north, the paper mill that makes private label 'bath tissue' has made thier White Mountain brand available locally.
> Interesting to me that the paper pulp comes from somewhere else in trucks and the mill makes a giant huge roll of TP and ships that somewhere else by truck to be made into consumer size rolls.



We have a handful of local distilleries in my area and they all converted to make hand sanitizer too.  I think it's great to see people pitching in as they can.  

My brother is a purchasing agent for a hospital group locally, he couldn't find hand sanitizer for the doctors offices associated with the hospital.  One of my gun/bourbon buddies is close friends with the owner of one of the local distilleries so we put the 2 in touch.


----------



## leadarrows

jim slagle said:


> You have any toilet paper samples you could pass out?
> 
> Asking for a friend . . .
> 
> :th_lmao:




Not a square to spare.


----------



## EastTexFrank

Melensdad said:


> We have a handful of local distilleries in my area and they all converted to make hand sanitizer too.  I think it's great to see people pitching in as they can.
> 
> My brother is a purchasing agent for a hospital group locally, he couldn't find hand sanitizer for the doctors offices associated with the hospital.  One of my gun/bourbon buddies is close friends with the owner of one of the local distilleries so we put the 2 in touch.



You know this is what makes America a special country.  You can kick it in the groin, drop it to its knees and it's going to get back up swinging, biting and gouging.  I am so proud of my adopted country and its President.


----------



## Bannedjoe

Melensdad said:


> We have a handful of local distilleries in my area and they all converted to make hand sanitizer too.  I think it's great to see people pitching in as they can.
> 
> My brother is a purchasing agent for a hospital group locally, he couldn't find hand sanitizer for the doctors offices associated with the hospital.  One of my gun/bourbon buddies is close friends with the owner of one of the local distilleries so we put the 2 in touch.





EastTexFrank said:


> You know this is what makes America a special country.  You can kick it in the groin, drop it to its knees and it's going to get back up swinging, biting and gouging.  I am so proud of my adopted country and its President.


This is the same country who knew alcohol would someday be legal again.
The one's in the know set up malted milk factories.
They made malted milk for years.
When the bill was passed to make booze legal again, they flipped a switch, and badda bing, beer!


----------



## tiredretired

FrancSevin said:


> About six months ago we did Three million single use samples of Purell(tm) I discovered them last week in the QA sample/retention room. I have about a 1,000 samples left over and have been handing them out at,,,; Gas stations.
> *Gas pump handles are possibly the most corrupted devices we all take for granted. Wear gloves or use a plastic grocery bag when pumping fuel.*
> 
> BTW: I have yet to have anyone refuse the Purell samples.



About two weeks ago when I filled up the Jeep, the guy next to me was pumping his gas while eating a chili dog he got from the station.  I'm thinking that ordinarily that is a dumb thing to do, but right now that is just downright stupid.  

Damn Chili Dog looked good too.  :th_lmao:


----------



## pirate_girl




----------



## Jim_S RIP

Texas report . . .

https://txdshs.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/ed483ecd702b4298ab01e8b9cafc8b83

.


----------



## tiredretired

jim slagle said:


> Texas report . . .
> 
> https://txdshs.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/ed483ecd702b4298ab01e8b9cafc8b83
> 
> .



Looks like west Texas is the place to be, other than El Paso and who would want to be there even in good times.   LOL.


----------



## EastTexFrank

TiredRetired said:


> Looks like west Texas is the place to be, other than El Paso and who would want to be there even in good times.   LOL.



When you get out in to West Texas, social distancing becomes pretty easy.  

In East Texas, our county is basically rural with the largest town being just under 5K people.  We still have no reported cases with the counties around us having 1 case each.  That is except for Smith county to our south which has 16 cases.  Smith county contains Tyler which is a medical hub with two hospital complexes and they won't say where those 16 cases came from, certainly not all from Tyler.


----------



## Melensdad

Someone posted the website earlier in this thread.  

Here is a critical analysis of it, showing it to be wrong.  

Please read — https://thefederalist.com/2020/03/2...aq_r46bgC2RgTGS2ytVtbiara5u13xjmIBPVywAXp24n4


----------



## EastTexFrank

Melensdad said:


> Someone posted the website earlier in this thread.
> 
> Here is a critical analysis of it, showing it to be wrong.
> 
> Please read — https://thefederalist.com/2020/03/2...aq_r46bgC2RgTGS2ytVtbiara5u13xjmIBPVywAXp24n4



Bob, back in the stoneage when I worked for a living, I mentored young, new hire engineers and this was one of the hardest thing to teach them.  They were all very smart and very computer savvy but you had to beat in to them that, "When the observed data doesn't match the computer model, THE MODEL IS WRONG".  Computer models are wonderful tools for playing "what if" but you have to understand their limitations.  You have to use common sense.

That's why I am always skeptical when people flash graphs in front of me when I don't know where the data comes from and how it is being used.  I'm old school.


----------



## m1west

EastTexFrank said:


> When you get out in to West Texas, social distancing becomes pretty easy.
> 
> In East Texas, our county is basically rural with the largest town being just under 5K people.  We still have no reported cases with the counties around us having 1 case each.  That is except for Smith county to our south which has 16 cases.  Smith county contains Tyler which is a medical hub with two hospital complexes and they won't say where those 16 cases came from, certainly not all from Tyler.



Where are you in east Texas Frank, I lived in Garland on lake Ray Hubbard back in the early 1980's for a couple years.


----------



## Jim_S RIP

m1west said:


> Where are you in east Texas Frank, I lived in Garland on lake Ray Hubbard back in the early 1980's for a couple years.



Hello neighbor!

I lived in Richardson 1981 to 1996.


----------



## EastTexFrank

m1west said:


> Where are you in east Texas Frank, I lived in Garland on lake Ray Hubbard back in the early 1980's for a couple years.



My wife got transferred back to Dallas in 1985 and we lived there for 13 years.  When she retired we moved about 100 miles east to Mineola in Wood County.  It's where her family comes from and there are still plenty of them around here.  We live about 6 miles east of town on 13 acres.


----------



## m1west

jim slagle said:


> Hello neighbor!
> 
> I lived in Richardson 1981 to 1996.



Yep we were neighbors for a year or 2. I liked that area from what I remember not to humid ,not to hot and not to cold but some really bad thunder and lightning storms. The girls wern't to bad to look at either. I was there on a construction project in Fort Worth at a General Motors plant. When I was there the economy was very bad after the oil crash. I returned to Ca. in 1987 when it was still normal here.


----------



## m1west

EastTexFrank said:


> My wife got transferred back to Dallas in 1985 and we lived there for 13 years.  When she retired we moved about 100 miles east to Mineola in Wood County.  It's where her family comes from and there are still plenty of them around here.  We live about 6 miles east of town on 13 acres.



I never made it that far east in Texas, the one thing I kick myself in the ass for is when lived in Texas as a young man I never made it to New Orleans. I did go all over Texas though, when I went to Houston and South padre Island 1st the humidity almost killed me then when we got to the town of South Padre Island I got pulled over within 5 minutes and quizzed by the local police, we went home after that.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Seems like the virus is concentrated in places where there are lots of Democrats ... just saying.


----------



## JimVT

I got checking to see if our life span dropped .then I found this. 
https://www.blueprintincome.com/tools/life-expectancy-calculator-how-long-will-i-live/


----------



## NorthernRedneck

So it's starting to get personal. My niece was in college in Ottawa. One of her classmates went to bestbuy to buy a TV and is now in the hospital being treated for coronavirus. Instead of getting tested there or self quarantining, my family urged her to travel home to get away from it. She's now driven herself as far as here and is now at the hospital getting checked as she developed a deep cough on her way home. She lives 7 hours west of here. Ottawa is 14 hrs east.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

PBinWA said:


> Funny they don't say who the President was during 2009 ... https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/h...ry-ran-out-of-a-75-cent-face-mask/ar-BB11GgLi




So even though Obama gave away 100 million masks (and other supplies) and never re-stocked them.  It looks like China was aggressively sourcing as many supplies from the rest of the world as early as January ....

https://www.smh.com.au/national/chi...tralian-medical-supplies-20200325-p54du8.html


And of course China-owned Canada (aka Chinada) sent 16 tons of supplies to China as well ...
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/pol...for-sending-16-tonnes-of-personal-protective/


----------



## m1west

NorthernRedneck said:


> So it's starting to get personal. My niece was in college in Ottawa. One of her classmates went to bestbuy to buy a TV and is now in the hospital being treated for coronavirus. Instead of getting tested there or self quarantining, my family urged her to travel home to get away from it. She's now driven herself as far as here and is now at the hospital getting checked as she developed a deep cough on her way home. She lives 7 hours west of here. Ottawa is 14 hrs east.



That is hitting close to home. I hope she tests out OK or at least gets mild symptoms.


----------



## EastTexFrank

NorthernRedneck said:


> So it's starting to get personal. My niece was in college in Ottawa. One of her classmates went to bestbuy to buy a TV and is now in the hospital being treated for coronavirus. Instead of getting tested there or self quarantining, my family urged her to travel home to get away from it. She's now driven herself as far as here and is now at the hospital getting checked as she developed a deep cough on her way home. She lives 7 hours west of here. Ottawa is 14 hrs east.



I'll give you a worse one than that.  

A mega rich dude from the north-east bought a 10K square foot house on a 35 acre estate about 3/4 mile from me a few years back.  I knew the previous owners and it was a beautiful old house.  He tore it apart taking out the a/c and heating to create a "natural resort" where people from the north-east and LA area could come to detoxify and destress from their daily lives.  I never seen or met the guy but he has been described to me as a super rich, liberal snowflake who views anyone not from NY/NJ or LA as hillbillies.  

Well, he just flew a bunch of people down to his estate in order for them to destress from the rigors of their lives in fucking *NEW YORK city*.  We don't have any corona virus in our county so this arrogant, selfish SOB goes importing people from New York.  People around here are HOT.  It's going to be interesting to see how this pans out.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

So they tested her. Said she probably has it and to go home and quarantine. So she's on her way to infest my brother's house. The tests apparently take a week to come back. At least that's what they told her.  The nearby city is roughly 115000 population. So far there have been no cases here.


----------



## Melensdad

Your brother should quarantine her in an RV in the driveway.  

Seriously.  Some sort of real isolation.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

Melensdad said:


> Your brother should quarantine her in an RV in the driveway.
> 
> Seriously.  Some sort of real isolation.


I think he's locking her up in the basement. It's finished. Separate entrance to the house. Bathroom. That's the plan as far as I know. Btw, that's my brother who's been having the strokes. He an his girlfriend have 2 young kids. They'll be separated from the older daughter who may or may not have it.


----------



## Bannedjoe

NorthernRedneck said:


> So they tested her. Said she probably has it and to go home and quarantine. So she's on her way to infest my brother's house. The tests apparently take a week to come back. At least that's what they told her.  The nearby city is roughly 115000 population. So far there have been no cases here.



That certainly sucks.
Sorry it's hitting so close home.


----------



## mla2ofus

ETF, maybe you and other locals should "quarantine" the whole bunch inside his fences. If they need anything from town go get it for them at inflated prices.
Mike


----------



## EastTexFrank

mla2ofus said:


> ETF, maybe you and other locals should "quarantine" the whole bunch inside his fences. If they need anything from town go get it for them at inflated prices.
> Mike



Oh, it gets better.  Texas Gov Abbot issued a declaration today saying that anyone from New York or New Orleans who enters Texas needs to go in to 14-day quarantine with a $10k fine or 180 days in jail penalty for non compliance.  

Someone called the County Judge and explained the situation at "the house" and she contacted Texas DPS to report the situation.  There are 14 of them holed up in there.  I don't think that the $10k fine will upset anyone up there too much but the 180 days in jail certainly will.  The East Texas talking drums have shut down for tonight so I'm waiting until tomorrow to find out what is happening.  Should be interesting.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

Now the UK prime minister has tested positive. 



https://veryweather.co.uk/2020/03/uk-prime-minister-boris-johnson-tests-positive-for-covid-19/


----------



## m1west

NorthernRedneck said:


> Now the UK prime minister has tested positive.
> 
> 
> 
> https://veryweather.co.uk/2020/03/uk-prime-minister-boris-johnson-tests-positive-for-covid-19/



Over the next couple of weeks a lot of people are going to test positive.


----------



## tiredretired

m1west said:


> Over the next couple of weeks a lot of people are going to test positive.



The next few weeks will tell the tale, that is for sure.


----------



## bczoom

NorthernRedneck said:


> I think he's locking her up in the basement. It's finished. Separate entrance to the house. Bathroom. That's the plan as far as I know.


That's pretty good but if it's on the same HVAC system, the air will circulate.  Don't know if the furnace filter can filter out COVID-19.


----------



## pirate_girl

bczoom said:


> That's pretty good but if it's on the same HVAC system, the air will circulate.  Don't know if the furnace filter can filter out COVID-19.



It probably wouldn't.
That would call for negative room pressure.


----------



## Melensdad

pirate_girl said:


> It probably wouldn't.
> That would call for negative room pressure.



YUP

I'd be trying to rent an RV and park it in the driveway.  Or a really nice tent.  Then I'd get a rental outhouse.


----------



## tiredretired

I find it very interesting the biggest problems with this virus are in the deep blue communist infested states.  

The Lord sure does work in mysterious ways. 

Just Sayin'


----------



## NorthernRedneck

Melensdad said:


> YUP
> 
> 
> 
> I'd be trying to rent an RV and park it in the driveway.  Or a really nice tent.  Then I'd get a rental outhouse.


He has an rv but with temperatures still dipping down to -15 celcius at night itd be a bit cold. Definitely to cold to use the plumbing.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

I have a covid 19 rant. Not about the virus itself because it is what it is. My beef is all those ignorant people out there with their heads in the sand ignoring the recommendations of governments and medical professionals around the world and still going on about their life without any regard to others. 

We've been diligent in keeping our children at home for the past 2 weeks despite the whining and complaining. All fine and dandy. We can deal with it. My complaint is other ignorant parents who are ignoring the recommendations and letting their kids basically run wild. Still having friends over. Still going for sleep overs. What kind of idiots are these people. Pathetic. 

They just announced that we now have 2 cases of covid 19 in our city. An older couple returning from Florida brought it back with them.


----------



## pirate_girl

This is getting too close for comfort, but I'm not going to freak out.


----------



## Melensdad

NorthernRedneck said:


> I have a covid 19 rant...
> 
> My complaint is other ignorant parents who are ignoring the recommendations and letting their kids basically run wild. Still having friends over. Still going for sleep overs. What kind of idiots are these people. Pathetic...



Agree 100%

I’m all in favor of allowing maximum freedom with your own life.  But when your freedom endangers my life then I have the right to complain.  

But most of the people doing these silly things with their health (and mine) are simply ignorant. They don’t read or watch any news.  They hear bits and pieces but think it’s not a big deal because they are simply clueless morons.


----------



## pirate_girl

Now we're getting reports of positive tests coming in from both Allen and Van Wert counties. I've lots of friends in the Delphos and Van Wert area.
Right now we are free from any incoming reports from Henry county.
Defiance and Fulton county tho.
This doesn't cause me to feel frightened as much as it angers me, but then again it's possible that more testing is going on as well.
Cripes I can't wait until this is OVER.


----------



## mla2ofus

Saw AOC have her childish temper tantrum on the house floor today and it really did remind me of a 5 yr old who didn't get her way.
Mike


----------



## pirate_girl

A message from a nurse on instagram.
I think this should open.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B-DnWWGBNiQ/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link


----------



## pirate_girl




----------



## Jim_S RIP

pirate_girl said:


> View attachment 125077



Guess I’m close to Type I.  I only have 24 rolls of tp but they’re mega rolls :th_lmao:


----------



## EastTexFrank

jim slagle said:


> Guess I’m close to Type I.  I only have 24 rolls of tp but they’re mega rolls :th_lmao:



I'm definitely Type 1.  I only have about 40 double rolls of TP though and that was by pure luck.  Clean bottoms are important.


----------



## Melensdad

:th_lmao:


----------



## mla2ofus

Would someone please give governor Cuomo some cheese to go with all that whine. His voice grates on my nerves the same as liz warren's!!
Mike


----------



## Melensdad

So New York has roughly 45% of all the Covid-19 cases in the USA.  Most of those cases are centered in the NY City metro area.  

NYC mayor Bill deBlasio had been a strong critic of social isolation, in fact he and his health department officials encouraged social activities, riding trains, eating in restaurants and bars, taking to the nightclubs and bars, etc.  deBlasio also refused to close the schools in New York City.

So the infection spread.  And spread.  And spread some more.

Now the federal government is being begged for help because they caused their problem to expand out of control.  I'm not saying that we shouldn't help, we should, we are Americans.  But damn we should hold them responsible for their own actions and take them to task after this mess is over.





And then we have to ask this question too...


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Melensdad said:


> So New York has roughly 45% of all the Covid-19 cases in the USA.  Most of those cases are centered in the NY City metro area.
> 
> NYC mayor Bill deBlasio had been a strong critic of social isolation, in fact he and his health department officials encouraged social activities, riding trains, eating in restaurants and bars, taking to the nightclubs and bars, etc.  deBlasio also refused to close the schools in New York City.
> 
> So the infection spread.  And spread.  And spread some more.
> 
> Now the federal government is being begged for help because they caused their problem to expand out of control.  I'm not saying that we shouldn't help, we should, we are Americans.  But damn we should hold them responsible for their own actions and take them to task after this mess is over.




NYC is a smelly cess pool.  I hate it when I have to go there.  It's just plain dirty.  I am not surprised that they are in this position.


----------



## m1west

I knew would come to this if people were not smart enough to do it themselves. Last week all the businesses were open essential or not.
Now in my small county of 40,000 you can be arrested for not following the rules. In the comments people were sighting there rights and the constitution. There are a lot of laws on the books in powering heath departments to do this sort of thing. I for one plan to cooperate to the best of my ability and in doing it are protecting others as well as myself and loved ones. Can you go to court and fight it? sure you can, right after you get out of jail during a pandemic. Its is the right thing to do at this time so please stay home away from other people.
The life you save may be your own or someone you care about. If it starts getting out of control IE overloading the medical system and people do not cooperate there'll be Marshall law. Mr Trump right now as I type is considering Quarantine of the whole area around NYC. and people in other states with NY plates are being stopped and detained for Quarantine for 14 days. PLEASE do the right thing and stay home.


----------



## EastTexFrank

PBinWA said:


> NYC is a smelly cess pool.  I hate it when I have to go there.  It's just plain dirty.



My grand daughter had to go to New York on three occasions when she was studying in Boston.  Her description of it exactly matched yours.  It STANK.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

Proof that nobody is immune to the coronavirus. Country singer Joe Diffie died today from complications from the coronavirus. 

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-country/joe-diffie-country-singer-dead-obituary-974556/


----------



## Doc

John Prine reported to be in very serious condition due to corona virus.   

Here is a graphic I saw on twitter that compares the world countries growth of the virus.
Can't figure out a way to bring it here so here is the link.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1244119212701990913


----------



## Doc

Here is a similar chart via youtube ... but it only goes to March 11th.   The one in the link above goes to March 27th and shows the progress of how the US jumped ahead of the rest of the world in cases of the virus.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7riL6IXi5o[/ame]


----------



## Melensdad

And time for another update from ZeroHedge.  

I've held off because mostly the numbers have just been updated but now we have some big news from ZeroHedge so I'll toss it up here.

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopoliti...ds-sunday-press-briefing-confirmed-cases-boom



> *White House Extends Coronavirus Guidelines Until April 30*,
> 
> Trump Expects "Peak" In About 2 Weeks
> 
> Update (1855T): Trump's press conference continued well into the evening, with the president feuding in classic Trump style with CNN reporters asking him questions about a rumor that Trump had withheld aid to certain governors who didn't show him sufficient respect.
> 
> After a few minutes of jousting, Trump slammed CNN as "fake news", to which a reporter replied "we're not fake news", prompting Trump to spout "yes you are, sit down."
> 
> It was an amusing episode.
> 
> Asked about the news networks not wanting to cover Trump's daily press briefings, Trump scoffed, and slammed the media "we're getting the word about it...and a lot of people aren't...they should be happy about it but they're not." Trump then praised Dr. Fauci and Dr. Birx. "They've been fighting this stuff their whole lives...they don't want to be stars...the American public they should be the decider...we have Monday Night Football-type ratings...and that's from the New York Times...and they're not honest people but that's okay...that's what they said."
> 
> Nancy Pelosi Criticizes Trump's Response To Coronavirus Outbreak
> 
> "When they don't want the president of the United States to have a voice...you're not talking about Democracy any longer."
> 
> *   *   *
> 
> Update (1824ET): *Trump has offered a few more thoughts on why he isn't releasing some 10,000 ventilators to states like New York and Louisiana (states that, Trump's critics complain, are governed by Democrats).* Trump said the government is only holding on to the ventilators for now until the crisis arrives, That apparently leaves room for the government to dole them out to the states that need them in the coming days.
> 
> And of course, Trump said he spoke with some of the most respected restaurateurs in the country, and they apparently reminded him that they can't stay closed forever without significantly more help from the government - or they're all going to go out of business. As Trump said, he wants to make sure these restaurants "get moving"...but not until after April 30.
> 
> *Trump also claimed that Humana and Cigna agreed to waive all costs - including copays - for coronavirus-related treatments.* "It's a lot of money they're waiving," Trump said, during the Q&A, and said "yeah, I do" when asked if he was calling on other insurers to do the same thing. "This is about death," Trump said. "I want to thank Cigna and Humana."
> 
> Trump also repeatedly insisted that he now believes the "peak" of the US outbreak will arrive in two weeks which, at the current rate, means millions of cases will have been diagnosed by then.
> 
> When asked about why he "threatened" to quarantine New York, Connecticut and New Jersey yesterday, Trump responded with an aggravated denial, with Trump claiming that professionals brought the idea to him, and that he ultimately decided not to do it. "Now we did an advisory, it's a strong advisory...I think we did a great thing...all I did yesterday was I said we were looking in to it and by the end of the evening I said 'we've decided to go with the advisory'." Trump said.
> 
> *"I don't want to have to give them out then take them back and move them someplace else...we need to move them quickly,"* Trump said.
> 
> When asked why Florida has had more of its requests for ventilators approved than states like Massachusetts and New York, Trump responded that all states have been taken care of "Florida has been taken care of, Michigan has been taken care of"...Trump said, even though he has had a high-profile feud with the Democratic female governor of Michigan. Massachusetts, meanwhile, is governed by a moderate Republican.
> 
> Trump then went on a tirade about how most states have been "very happy" with the White House's handling and will be "amazed at what they will be able to get" even citing his relationship with John Bel Edwards, "a Democrat if that's what you're getting at" in Louisiana and other governors from the south to the northeast. Trump added the deployment of the hospital ships and the Army Corp of Engineers and the National Guard are doing a lot, like opening a hospital in New York City at the Javits Center.
> 
> ...


----------



## Jim_S RIP

m1west said:


> I knew would come to this if people were not smart enough to do it themselves. Last week all the businesses were open essential or not.
> Now in my small county of 40,000 you can be arrested for not following the rules. In the comments people were sighting there rights and the constitution. There are a lot of laws on the books in powering heath departments to do this sort of thing. I for one plan to cooperate to the best of my ability and in doing it are protecting others as well as myself and loved ones. Can you go to court and fight it? sure you can, right after you get out of jail during a pandemic. Its is the right thing to do at this time so please stay home away from other people.
> The life you save may be your own or someone you care about. If it starts getting out of control IE overloading the medical system and people do not cooperate there'll be Marshall law. Mr Trump right now as I type is considering Quarantine of the whole area around NYC. and people in other states with NY plates are being stopped and detained for Quarantine for 14 days. PLEASE do the right thing and stay home.



Marty, I had no idea you were in Calaveras County.  Did you meet Sam Clemens when he was there?

https://americanliterature.com/auth...e-celebrated-jumping-frog-of-calaveras-county


----------



## m1west

jim slagle said:


> Marty, I had no idea you were in Calaveras County.  Did you meet Sam Clemens when he was there?
> 
> https://americanliterature.com/auth...e-celebrated-jumping-frog-of-calaveras-county



I have been to the frog jump, they still have it every year. Sadly Mr Clemens was gone when I got here but his cabin lives on and can be visited.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

It's not a matter of "if" you get it . . . it's just a matter of when:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxAaO2rsdIs


----------



## m1west

PBinWA said:


> It's not a matter of "if" you get it . . . it's just a matter of when:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxAaO2rsdIs



Hopefully later so to give more time for the cure


----------



## pirate_girl

Still no reported cases here in Henry county.


----------



## EastTexFrank

pirate_girl said:


> Still no reported cases here in Henry county.



Nor in Wood County.


----------



## Jim_S RIP

pirate_girl said:


> Still no reported cases here in Henry county.





EastTexFrank said:


> Nor in Wood County.



Or in Clay County.


----------



## Doc

EastTexFrank said:


> Nor in Wood County.


Nor in Meigs county.   Another advantage of living in the sticks.


----------



## pirate_girl

EastTexFrank said:


> Nor in Wood County.





jim slagle said:


> Or in Clay County.





Doc said:


> Nor in Meigs county.   Another advantage of living in the sticks.



Nor Paulding, Putnam or Williams.


----------



## pirate_girl

Just went out to the mailbox.


----------



## m1west

Another shoe dropped, Grocery and Amazon workers are walking off the job siting safety concerns. Stay stocked up.


----------



## tiredretired

m1west said:


> Another shoe dropped, Grocery and Amazon workers are walking off the job siting safety concerns. Stay stocked up.



I placed a curb side order today with the local General Store in town.  I know the owner.  She delivered me groceries outside on the porch.  I asked her how it was going. Busy as hell.  She told me she installed plexiglas sneeze barriers at the registers and no longer accepts cash or check.  CC only.  They have no  bar code scanners.  One must hold each item up and the cashier will read it through the plexiglass and ring it up.  All the help are wearing gloves and masks.  Sounds to me she is doing all she can do to protect the help.  Two years ago she was in college, when her father suddenly passed away and she inherited the whole thing.  College on hold.  

Sounds to me Amazon and these supermarket chains need to step up their game a bit.


----------



## JimVT

I always check a cam that shows the container ships entering seattle and i'm noticing a huge drop in them arriving.  the export grain bulk carrier ships are still going strong.


----------



## Melensdad

JimVT said:


> I always check a cam that shows* the container ships entering seattle and i'm noticing a huge drop in them arriving.*  the export grain bulk carrier ships are still going strong.



Yup.  

I posted in January that China's economy was shutting down due to this.

Early February I posted stories saying there would be product shortages on store shelves in the USA in late March and early April.  

These were all sourced from the ZeroHedge website initially and later followed up by other financial media sources.  A lot of people don't trust ZeroHedge, and I'll admit that they sometimes go pretty far out on a limb, but they are accurate with much of their analysis and time typically proves them correct, especially when they talk about production numbers, and output data.  

Corona came to my attention shortly after Christmas when it was reported that production in China had effectively collapsed.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

We've got 3 confirmed cases here. Two of them, in their 60s, just got home from Florida two weeks ago. The third is a 23 yr old who was just down in the states. 

Everyone is doing the handwashing and mask thing. We've been at home for days. I go to the mail at the general store down the street every few days. They carry basic groceries so when I'm there I can get what I need. They have a handwashing station. They have the shields protecting the workers. I wear rubber gloves. Otherwise we just stay home.


----------



## Melensdad

social distancing 



> Dr. Deborah Birx: Could Be Up to 200,000 Deaths ‘if We Do Things Almost Perfectly’
> 
> 
> White House coronavirus task force coordinator Dr. Deborah Birx on Monday provided a bleak outlook as the coronavirus pandemic rages on, predicting that if everything to combat the virus is done “almost perfectly, there could be up to 200,000 deaths in the country.
> 
> *Birx agreed with Dr. Anthony Fauci’s belief that if nothing is done to combat the virus’ spread, there could be up to 2.2 million deaths and said she is “very worried about every city in the United States,” but said the between 100,000-200,000 mark would be the best case scenario.*
> 
> “I think everyone understands now that you can go from five to 50 to 500 to 5,000 cases very quickly,” Birx told *NBC “Today” anchor Savannah Guthrie*.
> 
> “We’ve looked at the Italy data with their self-isolation, and that’s where we come up with if we do things together well, almost perfectly, we could get in the range of 100,000 to 200,000 fatalities.




And compared to the season flu => https://time.com/5610878/2018-2019-flu-season/



> ... the CDC estimates that up to 42.9 million people got sick during the 2018-2019 flu season, *647,000 people were hospitalized and 61,200 died*. That’s fairly on par with a typical season...


----------



## mla2ofus

I've come to the conclusion you're going to find lots of differing reports on this. It all depends on the source.
Mike


----------



## NorthernRedneck

Exactly. So much info out there on it. Some true. Some partly true. And some just plain bs. So it ends up being like everything else. Look at all the stories and decide for yourself what's true and what's not. For us, we're just airing on the side of caution. In the end, we can only be so cautious.


----------



## pirate_girl




----------



## pirate_girl

Where I go to buy my gasoline (Circle K) have signs up on the doors for social distancing about staying 6ft apart.
Also the cashiers are now standing behind plexiglass.


----------



## pirate_girl

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyTTbLA3AZY[/ame]

Stanford Univ. researchers say evidence shows U.S. will recover from COVID-19 faster than expected


----------



## NorthernRedneck

Surprisingly a study show that both men and women were impacted by the virus more than any other gender. 


https://babylonbee.com/news/covid-19-impacting-men-women-more-than-all-other-genders-combined


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

NorthernRedneck said:


> Surprisingly a study show that both men and women were impacted by the virus more than any other gender.
> 
> 
> https://babylonbee.com/news/covid-19-impacting-men-women-more-than-all-other-genders-combined




I heard it is affecting men more economically - women are only affected at about 79 cents to every dollar that a man is affected.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Just in case anyone doesn't think this isn't truly China's fault:

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/mar/30/china-researchers-isolated-bat-coronaviruses-near-/

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopoliti...humans-coronavirus-exposed-2015-italian-state


https://www.wsj.com/articles/chinas...-infected-people-with-no-symptoms-11585650226


----------



## NorthernRedneck

The government has just issued a fire ban up here to prevent people from gathering around campfires for the foreseeable future. 

And with all the people returning early from their winter campgrounds in the states, our government has closed all campgrounds in Ontario. A lot of the people returning in their RVs do not have a home to go to. Now for the next few months, they are reduced to living in Walmart parking lots. We're still sitting with a foot and a half of snow. No campfires. No campgrounds open. Everyone returning in their rv now have to sit in a parking lot with no running water burning propane to keep warm when it dips below freezing at night.


----------



## mla2ofus

Makes you wonder if it is truly for health reasons or just exerting power unnecessarily.
Mike


----------



## Melensdad

And now Dr Fauci is saying that people should wear masks in public.  Even just the cloth masks.  His logic is that if infected people walking around cough they spread disease.  Wearing a cloth mask catches the droplets and keeps people from spreading the infection.  

Of course one must presume that people actually wash those masks from time to time???

My brother told me that the N95 masks have a life span of 8 hours ... but that presumes you wear it 8 hours in a row.  He said that humidity is the big problem as they are largely made of fibers, an 8 hour shift tends to break down the fibers.   At the hospital, where he is a purchasing agent, they can actually be dried out, sanitized and re-used.  He said they can be used for several days each if properly dried out.  He suggested having several, using one, hanging it to dry, then next day use a different one, the 3rd day use yet another mask.  Then on day 4 go back to mask #1.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Went to Walmart today - they had corned beef hash and toilet paper.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

mla2ofus said:


> Makes you wonder if it is truly for health reasons or just exerting power unnecessarily.
> Mike


That was quick. I guess all the news sources up here jumped the gun on the fire ban. They've already taken the article down. But it wouldn't surprise me if they tried that. There's already speculation that private campgrounds won't be able to run as the province just announced the closure of all provincial parks. If that happens, I can have our camper out of there in twenty minutes. Others at our park aren't so lucky as their campers are blocked in.


----------



## EastTexFrank

We got a phone call this afternoon telling us that Wood County, Texas, our County, just had it's first reported case.  

And here is why I am really skeptical of all these so called experts.  If it is a good idea now to wear a N95 mask, why the hell wasn't it a good idea 2 or 3 weeks ago when they were telling us that a facemask was ineffective unless you were the one that was sick.  It would stop outgoing splutter but wouldn't stop airborne viruses on the outside from coming in.

Rereading Bob's post, I may have misunderstood what was said.  I need to go check.  That is good information though on recycling the fiber type masks.  I did wonder about it as the virus is only supposed to be active for about 3 days on soft fabric but who the hell knows?

I keep on hoping that I wake up tomorrow and someone yells, "April Fool!  You've been pranked".  Somehow I doubt it.


----------



## Melensdad

EastTexFrank said:


> We got a phone call this afternoon telling us that Wood County, Texas, our County, just had it's first reported case.
> 
> And here is why I am really skeptical of all these so called experts.  If it is a good idea now to wear a N95 mask, why the hell wasn't it a good idea 2 or 3 weeks ago when they were telling us that a facemask was ineffective unless you were the one that was sick.  It would stop outgoing splutter but wouldn't stop airborne viruses on the outside from coming in.
> 
> Rereading Bob's post, I may have misunderstood what was said.  I need to go check.  That is good information though on recycling the fiber type masks.  I did wonder about it as the virus is only supposed to be active for about 3 days on soft fabric but who the hell knows?
> 
> I keep on hoping that I wake up tomorrow and someone yells, "April Fool!  You've been pranked".  Somehow I doubt it.



Think a bit farther back, FIRST they said the masks should be reserved for trained professional health care workers.  THEN later they said only if you were sick.  Now Dr Fausi admits what W.H.O. and many other nations have been recommending all along, wear a damn mask in public if it is availble.  

In all fairness to Dr Fauci, he seems to have been consistent and still remains so, he said healthcare workers should have top priority for N95 masks.  But he now seems to be advising that all people wear some sort of mask, he was less concerned if it was an N95 or not.  Just a mask.  Anything is better than nothing.


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> Think a bit farther back, FIRST they said the masks should be reserved for trained professional health care workers.  THEN later they said only if you were sick.  Now Dr Fausi admits what W.H.O. and many other nations have been recommending all along, wear a damn mask in public if it is availble.
> 
> In all fairness to Dr Fauci, he seems to have been consistent and still remains so, he said healthcare workers should have top priority for N95 masks.  But he now seems to be advising that all people wear some sort of mask, he was less concerned if it was an N95 or not.  Just a mask.  Anything is better than nothing.



I think they were saying that to stop people from Hoarding them as there was a short supply for the medical professionals. But even using that logic they were just making more work for the medical professionals. Hind sight is always 20/20. What should have been recommended was people making improvised masks for the purpose of not spreading it and leave the m95 masks for the medical professional so they are not sick when they have to save your life.


----------



## EastTexFrank

Just got another call, now 2 cases and awaiting results of 14 more tested.


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> I think they were saying that to stop people from Hoarding them as there was a short supply for the medical professionals. But even using that logic they were just making more work for the medical professionals. Hind sight is always 20/20. What should have been recommended was people making improvised masks for the purpose of not spreading it and leave the m95 masks for the medical professional so they are not sick when they have to save your life.



Let me sum up what you wrote.  THEY DELIBERATELY LIED


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> Let me sum up what you wrote.  THEY DELIBERATELY LIED



I was a little more politicly correct but Yep.


----------



## Doc

PBinWA said:


> Went to Walmart today - they had corned beef hash and toilet paper.


For the first time ever I went to walmart web site last night to do a click it order.   No available pick up times.  they suggesting there would be some in the morning.  So I checked and this morning I could sign up for a 4 to 5pm pick up time for tomorrow.   Pick up times must be filling up fast.     

So then I added to the order ...and added to the order, and added to teh order.  Each time I added it was another transaction for my debit card.  Bank suspected fraud and called to verify that I had done the transactions.  30 minutes on hold but got the hold on my card finally lifted.    Most items were a limit of 2.   No problem with that.   Didn't try to get toilet paper but tried to get hand sanitizer Nope, sold out.   Now will see how things go for pick up time tomorrow.


----------



## pirate_girl

Melensdad said:


> And now Dr Fauci is saying that people should wear masks in public.  Even just the cloth masks.  His logic is that if infected people walking around cough they spread disease.  Wearing a cloth mask catches the droplets and keeps people from spreading the infection.
> 
> Of course one must presume that people actually wash those masks from time to time???
> 
> My brother told me that the N95 masks have a life span of 8 hours ... but that presumes you wear it 8 hours in a row.  He said that humidity is the big problem as they are largely made of fibers, an 8 hour shift tends to break down the fibers.   At the hospital, where he is a purchasing agent, they can actually be dried out, sanitized and re-used.  He said they can be used for several days each if properly dried out.  He suggested having several, using one, hanging it to dry, then next day use a different one, the 3rd day use yet another mask.  Then on day 4 go back to mask #1.


----------



## pirate_girl




----------



## Bamby

EastTexFrank said:


> Just got another call, now 2 cases and awaiting results of 14 more tested.



Here is a US map that's frequently updated that will allow a person to follow progression. Click on Coronavirus in upper right corner of map.

https://www.wunderground.com/wundermap/?isPresentationActive=0&renderer=2&Units=english&zoom=8&lat=40.064&lon=-80.721&covid19=0&wxstn=1&wxstnmode=tw&aq=0&aqvalue=NaN&radar=0&radarType=NaN&radaropa=0.7&satellite=0&satelliteopa=0.8&insertHurricaneNameHere=false&goes16opa=&storm-cells=0&severe=0&severeopa=0.9&sst=0&sstopa=0.8&sstanom=0&sstanomopa=0.8&cam=0&fronts=0&hur=0&models=0&modelsmodel=ecmwf&modelsopa=0.8&modelstype=SURPRE&lightning=0&fire=0&fireopa=0.9&fireRisk=0&fireRiskOpacity=0.9&firePerimeter=0&firePerimeterOpacity=0.9&smoke=0&smokeOpacity=0.9&rep=0&surge=0&tor=0&windstr=0&windstrDensity=undefined&windstreamSpeed=undefined&windstreamSpeedFilter=undefined&windstreamPalette=undefined


----------



## Melensdad

And I hate to be the bearer of bad news again, but... 

And yes I know that ZeroHedge is the source and many people don't like it, but it has been damn accurate so far...

so here is the mic-drop  

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/h...nty-lockdown-after-new-corona-cluster-emerges



> Here We Go Again: *China Puts County On Lockdown After New Corona Cluster Emerges*
> 
> _China is no longer fixed._
> 
> *Having lied for the past two months about the severity and the extent of coronavirus pandemic which its virologists started in Wuhan, eager to convey the message that the crisis "under control" *just so people return to work, full of hope and enthusiasm, rejoicing at the surge in China's just as fabricated PMI numbers, and willing to work their asses off (with Beijing generously willing to risk everyone's lives as the alternative is a complete collapse in China's economy) earlier today the US finally cracked down on the relentless barrage of Chinese lies, when *US intelligence accused China of deliberately lying* about its coronavirus figures.
> 
> Then, in a miraculous coincidence, just moments later Reuters reported that a county in central China's Henan province announced on Wednesday it had *"virtually banned all outbound movement of people, following several cases of coronavirus infection in the area."*
> 
> According to a post on its social media account, Jia county - which has a population of about 600,000 - said that *no one can travel out of Jia county* without proper authorization. Additionally, residents are not allowed to leave their homes for work unless they have clearance to do so.
> 
> According to local media reports, on March 29, Henan Province broke its 30-day streak of reporting no new coronavirus cases, saying one person tested positive after a trip to Pingdingshan, where Jia County is located.  Specifically, on Saturday, Henan province reported one confirmed case in Luohe city; local authorities said the infected person had been in contact with two doctors based in Jia county who later tested positive for the virus even though they had showed no symptoms.
> 
> As a result, Bloomberg adds that starting April 1, all residential compounds will be under "closed-off management" and all residents need to wear masks and have temperature taken entering or exiting the compounds.
> 
> *And so the virus is back to China*, despite the best intentions of the [strike]Chinese[/strike] World Health Organization and its Beijing sponsors to make it seem that China had managed to defeat the virus.
> 
> Needless to say this is a problem, because the risk of stop-start restrictions on people’s movements mean that *any calls for a V-shaped rebound in global economies and stocks can now be ignored as China will soon be forced to go through the entire shut down exercise all over again*.


----------



## Jim_S RIP

Melensdad said:


> And I hate to be the bearer of bad news again, but...
> 
> And yes I know that ZeroHedge is the source and many people don't like it, but it has been damn accurate so far...
> 
> so here is the mic-drop
> 
> https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/h...nty-lockdown-after-new-corona-cluster-emerges
> ​



No surprise here.  They’ve been lying from the beginning


----------



## Jim_S RIP

Shocker: U.S. Intelligence Says China Under-Reported Cases, Deaths Related to Wuhan Coronavirus
Posted by Mary Chastain	   Wednesday, April 1, 2020 at 1:00pm

https://legalinsurrection.com/2020/...ths-related-to-wuhan-coronavirus/#more-313761

*China lied, people died*

I. Am. Shocked. U.S. intelligence says China under-reported cases and deaths related to the Wuhan coronavirus.

You mean to tell me that the Communist regime, which regularly suppresses anything and anyone that makes them look bad, lied about the virus?

Bloomberg reported:



> The officials asked not to be identified because the report is secret and declined to detail its contents. But the thrust, they said, is that China’s public reporting on cases and deaths is intentionally incomplete. Two of the officials said the report concludes that China’s numbers are fake.
> 
> —
> 
> The outbreak began in China’s Hubei province in late 2019, but the country has publicly reported only about 82,000 cases and 3,300 deaths, according to data compiled by Johns Hopkins University. That compares to more than 189,000 cases and more than 4,000 deaths in the U.S., which has the largest publicly reported outbreak in the world.



Dr. Deborah Birx, a member of the Coronavirus Task Force, admitted as much at the press briefing on Tuesday



> Deborah Birx, the State Department immunologist advising the White House on its response to the outbreak, said Tuesday that China’s public reporting influenced assumptions elsewhere in the world about the nature of the virus.
> 
> “The medical community made — interpreted the Chinese data as: This was serious, but smaller than anyone expected,” she said at a news conference on Tuesday. “Because I think probably we were missing a significant amount of the data, now that what we see happened to Italy and see what happened to Spain.”



What else has China lied about? Leslie, who has been an absolute star since the virus first appeared in Wuhan, blogged about a study in mid-February from Chinese researchers, who believe the virus originated in a laboratory.

In early February, Leslie noted in her daily post the crematoriums in Wuhan burned “bodies 24/7.”

Leslie also blogged in mid-March about a report that claimed China destroyed evidence of the coronavirus in December.

Vijeta has been following the Iranian Wuhan coronavirus outbreak. He has noted that the regime has also downplayed the pandemic and given out false numbers.

Intelligence officials also believe Russia, Indonesia, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt have downplayed their coronavirus numbers.

Secretary of State Mike Pompeo has demanded transparency from every country:



> U.S. Secretary of State Michael Pompeo has publicly urged China and other nations to be transparent about their outbreaks. He has repeatedly accused China of covering up the extent of the problem and being slow to share information, especially in the weeks after the virus first emerged, and blocking offers of help from American experts.
> 
> “This data set matters,” he said at a news conference in Washington on Tuesday. The development of medical therapies and public-health measures to combat the virus “so that we can save lives depends on the ability to have confidence and information about what has actually transpired,” he said.
> 
> “I would urge every nation: Do your best to collect the data. Do your best to share that information,” he said. “We’re doing that.”



In conclusion, the MSM and the left have got to stop saying the U.S. leads in any category concerning coronavirus. If they must say it then use an asterisk. Is it more proof that they just want to make President Donald Trump look bad? I think so.

Why would anyone believe anything that comes from the Chinese communist regime? Not just about the Wuhan coronavirus. I mean everything.


----------



## pirate_girl

Traffic is gone, gas is affordable. Bills extended.
Kids are at home with their families.
Parents are home taking care of their children.
Fast food replaced by home cooked meals.
Hectic schedules replaced by naps.
Air seems cleaner and the world quieter.
People are conscious about hygiene and health again.
We finally listen to authorities and head home when they say so.
Money doesn't seem to make the world go round anymore.
And we now have time, finally, to stop and smell the roses.

And lastly, we become closer to God more evidently praising Him everyday of our lives.
It seems like this covid-19 is a reset button for humanity.


----------



## marchplumber

pirate_girl said:


> Traffic is gone, gas is affordable. Bills extended.
> Kids are at home with their families.
> Parents are home taking care of their children.
> Fast food replaced by home cooked meals.
> Hectic schedules replaced by naps.
> Air seems cleaner and the world quieter.
> People are conscious about hygiene and health again.
> We finally listen to authorities and head home when they say so.
> Money doesn't seem to make the world go round anymore.
> And we now have time, finally, to stop and smell the roses.
> 
> And lastly, we become closer to God more evidently praising Him everyday of our lives.
> It seems like this covid-19 is a reset button for humanity.



God's got this.....
"there are no mistakes in God's world, not one......."
He has a plan, I don't know what, why, or how it goes....but it will go exactly as He prescribes......

I'm grateful for all you mentioned PG!  Truly wonderful, but I realize the "human animal" isn't easily tamed.....I don't see most of what you mentioned being permeant....no matter how nice it would be.  Thanks for all the posts and info...

God bless you and yours!
Tony


----------



## Jim_S RIP

Our County has its first virus case.

Our County and the adjacent Counties have issued stay at home orders. Not anything different than I’m already doing though.

My only activity besides reading is banning spammers and all I need is my computer and the FF Ban Hammer!


----------



## EastTexFrank

I haven't got an update on our county's cases today but the County Judge issued a "stay at home/stay safe " order for the county.  We've been doing that for almost three weeks already so it doesn't make much difference for us.  

My wife did make a run in to town today to take care of some paper work things and stopped at Cowburners to get me my wings.  Darn, they were good.  She also picked up some brisket, sausage and pulled pork.  We're good for lunches for a while.  

She also went to the grocery store this evening but didn't go in as she said that it was so busy with so many people that she didn't feel comfortable.  We may need to try the "old people" shopping hour tomorrow or the day after.


----------



## Jim_S RIP

EastTexFrank said:


> I haven't got an update on our county's cases today but the County Judge issued a "stay at home/stay safe " order for the county.  We've been doing that for almost three weeks already so it doesn't make much difference for us.
> 
> My wife did make a run in to town today to take care of some paper work things and stopped at Cowburners to get me my wings.  Darn, they were good.  She also picked up some brisket, sausage and pulled pork.  We're good for lunches for a while.
> 
> She also went to the grocery store this evening but didn't go in as she said that it was so busy with so many people that she didn't feel comfortable.  We may need to try the "old people" shopping hour tomorrow or the day after.



The map shows you’re still at one.


https://txdshs.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/ed483ecd702b4298ab01e8b9cafc8b83

I’ve found that early morning isn’t crowded here.


----------



## EastTexFrank

The official count yesterday was two with 14 under observation.  That 14 may be the New Yorkers in isolation at their "retreat" just down the road from me.  I hope that they are physically and mentally detoxed and destressed by now because they are going to be here for a while.  

We've already been on voluntary shutdown for almost three weeks and it wouldn't be too bad if it would just stop raining so I could get outside and piddle.  Now we're on official shutdown for God knows how long.


----------



## Jim_S RIP

> The official count yesterday was two with 14 under observation.



Both numbers are correct  

The State site is by victims residence the other number probably the number actually in the Wood County Hospital.  The second could be one of your yankees.

The trouble with any stats is first it’s rapidly changing and second there’s no common way to count.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

Sad situation up here. We don't have anywhere near the number of cases as the states but that could quickly change. 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/can...uation-at-least-600-nursing-retirement-homes/


----------



## Melensdad

NorthernRedneck said:


> Sad situation up here. We don't have anywhere near the number of cases as the states but that could quickly change.
> 
> https://www.theglobeandmail.com/can...uation-at-least-600-nursing-retirement-homes/



Well nothing good is going to come from that story.

To make matters worse, I've been seeing that Italy, the nation with the oldest population, is dramatically UNDERreporting its mortality numbers.  And not on purpose, but its just the way they record their data.  According to the news reports I saw, Italy only reports Covid19 deaths if someone was previously diagnosed with the disease.  But if someone dies in their home, undiagnosed, they are not considered to have had it because no test is taken to confirm cause of death.

So we now know that China dramatically under reported.  It appears that Italy may inadvertently be under reporting.  All nations show a correlation between advanced age and mortality.  If 600 retirement homes in Canada are infected then I don't even want to start doing the math on the outcome.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

Exactly. And it's only going to get worse as all these spring break millennials returned home from a week of partying to infect everyone else around them. Florida should have instituted a stay at home order weeks ago to prevent the spread during spring break.


----------



## m1west

NorthernRedneck said:


> Exactly. And it's only going to get worse as all these spring break millennials returned home from a week of partying to infect everyone else around them. Florida should have instituted a stay at home order weeks ago to prevent the spread during spring break.



Exactly, the schools were closed to prevent the spread. But what did the little bastards do? Go to spring break early and party longer with places like Florida and Mexico fanning the flames.


----------



## tiredretired

m1west said:


> Exactly, the schools were closed to prevent the spread. But what did the little bastards do? Go to spring break early and party longer with places like Florida and Mexico fanning the flames.



That governor of Florida, a Republican, should have taken the bull by the horns and sent all those little bastards home.  Too late now.  He has been a day late and a dollar short in all this since day one.  As much as I despise that baby murdering commie bastard Governor of New York, he has done a better job than DeSantis, IMHO. 

Now they are thinking the Super Bowl of Feb. 2 was the catalyst for all this down there.


----------



## mak2

Just stopped by to check on you all.  Hope all are well.


----------



## Jim_S RIP

mak2 said:


> Just stopped by to check on you all.  Hope all are well.




So far so good!


----------



## EastTexFrank

mak2 said:


> Just stopped by to check on you all.  Hope all are well.



Glad that you are safe and well.  I think that all the regulars on here are doing good so far.  Long may that continue.


----------



## pirate_girl

mak2 said:


> Just stopped by to check on you all.  Hope all are well.



Yup!


----------



## NorthernRedneck

Up until a few days ago we didn't have any cases here. Now we have 9 confirmed cases. We knew it was just a matter of time.


----------



## Melensdad

mak2 said:


> Just stopped by to check on you all.  Hope all are well.



 stop by more often


----------



## NorthernRedneck

I found the following online. Some interesting  points. 

"Something to ponder about..[emoji848]

Wuhan to Shanghai = 839 km
 Wuhan to Beijing = 1152 km
 Milan from Wuhan = 15000 km
 Wuhan to New York = 15000 km
 * No effect of corona in nearby Beijing / Shanghai *
 But deaths in Italy, Iran, Europe countries and ruining the world economy
 * All business areas of China are safe *
 Something is fishy.
 * America is not just blaming China without a reason. * Even today, India is locked down, but all the cities of China are open and from April 8, China has also announced the opening of Wuhan. Not a single  leader has contacted
 Corona virus. The virus has ruined the economy around the world, thousands have lost their lives, millions have got this disease and countless people have been locked in homes, many countries have been locked down. 
 However,  the corona virus originated from the city of Wuhan in China, and has now reached every corner of the world, but the virus did not reach the capital of Beijing and the economic capital of Shanghai located near Wuhan itself.
 Today Paris is closed, New York is closed, Berlin is closed, Delhi is closed, Mumbai is closed, Tokyo is closed, the world's major economic and political centers are closed, but Beijing and Shanghai are open, there Corona  No effect was seen. Only a few cases came out, but the virus had  no effect on Beijing and Shanghai.

 Beijing is the city where all the leaders of China live including their military leaders but there is no lock down in Beijing.
 Shanghai is the city that runs China's economy, it is the economic capital of China, where all the rich people of China live, run the industry & there is no lock down here, there is no effect of corona here.

 Beijing and Shanghai are the areas adjoining Wuhan, the virus from Wuhan reached every corner of the world, but this virus did not effect Beijing & Shanghai. 

 Another big thing is that the worldwide share market has fallen by almost half, in India also the Nifty has gone from 12 thousand to 7 thousand, but the share market of China was at 3000 & just dropped to 2700.  

 It only indicates one thing that the corona is the bio-chemical weapon of China, which China  used for carrying out destruction in the world. China has now put this virus under control, maybe they also have the antidote/vaccine that they are  not sharing with the world.
 Hollywood star, Australia's home minister, Britain's health minister, Spain's prime minister's wife and now even Britain's Prince Charles has been hit by corona, but NOT a single leader in China.  Corona has not even touched a single military commander."


----------



## pirate_girl

I went to Walmart earlier.
The store is stocked, yes even tp.
Thing is, it's one cart/one person per.
No kids, no newborns for now.
You must enter the store alone.
The grocery side was open, the other side was blocked off with carts and yellow tape.
The social distancing stickers were on the floor throughout.
People were obeying, including yours truly.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

Things are getting nasty over in the Philippines where they have been on lockdown for 2 weeks. Seems the president there has ordered anyone who doesn't comply with the lockdown to be shot dead. 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/rodrig...ident-coronavirus-lockdown-shoot-people-dead/


----------



## mla2ofus

Post # 715 is pretty intriguing!! Maybe Trump needs to bring this up to the WHO and the UN!!
Mike


----------



## Melensdad

mla2ofus said:


> Post # 715 is pretty intriguing!! Maybe Trump needs to bring this up to the WHO and the UN!!
> Mike



Actually WHO is an instrument of Chinese propaganda but that being said, post 715 is very inaccurate on several points.  Beijing did go on lockdown and business areas in China were closed, while production and shipments of goods collapses.  Its even been reported by members here that ships coming into our harbors from China have become a rare sight.  Numerous media sources have reported that retail store shortages are expected in early April, which would make sense if the ships are not coming into port! 

Here is just one of error from Post 715: 



> https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-...prompts-beijing-residential-lockdown-millions
> 
> 
> *Coronavirus prompts Beijing residential lockdown as millions return to work*
> Beijing has stepped up efforts to combat coronavirus as millions return to the capital after Lunar New Year holiday
> 
> The city, which is home to more than 20 million people, has reported more than 330 confirmed virus infections to date.
> 
> Frank Tang  in Beijing
> *Published: 6:30pm, 10 Feb, 2020*
> 
> 
> *China’s capital Beijing has escalated measures to prevent the spread of the novel coronavirus by ordering residential communities and villages to limit access for outsiders, as millions of workers return to the megacity after prolonged holidays.
> *
> In a 10-point circular published on Sunday, Beijing’s municipal authority ordered that check points be established to examine body temperatures and only residents’ vehicles be allowed into each community. *A complete lockdown could be imposed on the area if a confirmed coronavirus case was discovered.
> *
> “As our city is facing the peak period of returning population, epidemic prevention is now at a critical stage,” the circular said.
> 
> Beijing is one of China’s most at-risk cities from the coronavirus outbreak ...​


As is my posting practice, full story is at the link above!


And as for Shaghai not being affected ...



> https://www.usatoday.com/story/opin...ome-coronavirus-ghost-town-column/4786720002/
> 
> *Coronavirus ghost town: Shanghai has changed since the outbreak*
> The streets are almost empty. Roped-off playgrounds gather dust instead of giggles. Aside from grocery stores and emergency facilities, virtually nothing is open.
> 
> *7:00 a.m. ET, Feb 18, 2020*
> 
> The Shanghai I live in now is not the same city I moved to with my family last summer, before the COVID-19 outbreak. I loved watching poker-faced grannies dancing in synchrony on street corners, dodging swarms of scooters on my bike as hundreds of delivery drivers hurried through the street to satisfy ravenous online consumption, and taking the second longest subway system on earth to more restaurants, cafes and museums than I could visit in a lifetime.
> 
> But then COVID-19, caused by a member of the coronavirus family that’s a close cousin to the SARS and MERS viruses that have caused outbreaks in the past, enveloped us in an invisible fog. Shanghai and the public life that flowed through its concrete veins disappeared. Old Shanghai shopped; new Shanghai stopped.
> 
> *It is now the world's biggest ghost town*, haunted by 26 million fearful souls wearing surgical masks. The streets are almost empty. Roped-off playgrounds gather dust instead of giggles. Aside from grocery stores and emergency facilities, *virtually nothing is open*. We stay at home following safety protocols: mandatory masks in public, no visitors or deliveries, 3 feet of separation at all times and hand sanitizer, constantly.
> 
> Before the virus, elbowing dozens of eager grandparents every day to take my son to kindergarten in a joyous kind of Shanghainese chaos made me feel like a local. After school we would take bikes, trains or buses to shopping mall playrooms, playgrounds packed with kids climbing up slides, Montessori and gymnastics classes or museums.
> 
> Now my son stays home, all the time. Instead of school, we have TikTok toddler classes. We read books, watch Netflix (if our network allows), build Legos, make up songs, anything to resist making every day the same. We still go outside, but only when protected by surgical masks and suspicion of the faceless passersby who used to be our neighbors. They might be super-spreaders. We’re told to avoid crowds, but that’s easy — there aren’t any. Roughly 3,000 people live in my complex; I see five or six a day.
> 
> This new Shanghai is a place filled with dread and vulnerability...


----------



## Melensdad

And now it looks like the other foot falls.

We are seeing the 2nd wave hitting Asia.  Going back to the Spanish Flu in 1918, it was the 2nd wave that was the most brutal and killed the most people.  We are better prepared now for a 2nd wave.  We knew it was coming.  Medicines are better as is texting.  Vaccines are in progress too.  So hopefully the 2nd wave of Covid will come and go with less grief???  Hopefully.

The economic damage is going to be severe and there are now fears of suicide and civil unrest.

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopoliti...ng-lockdown-combat-asias-second-wave-covid-19



> In Major Reversal, Singapore Imposes *Month-Long Lockdown As Asia Faces "Second Wave" Of COVID-19*
> 
> : Live Updates
> 
> ... After the global number of confirmed coronavirus cases topped 1 million on Thursday, several Asian territories and countries, including Singapore and Hong Kong, are struggling with a second wave of COVID-19 cases that health officials claim is mostly travel-related. As we reported a few days back, China has reimposed lockdowns as begins to disclose "asymptomatic" cases that government functionaries explained were left out of China's initial case totals.
> 
> Professor Gabriel Leung, an epidemiologist at the University of Hong Kong, warned on Friday that the pandemic would likely last a few more months, even if heavy-handed prevention strategies are adopted. He also said the warmer weather would give the world no respite from the virus: *"Is warmer weather going to give us some respite? The answer is maybe, but probably not,”*  ...
> 
> ... One major change that could foreshadow a similar move by the White House: The Singaporean government is now advising citizens to wear facemasks in public...
> 
> ... Singaporeans will need to continue sharing all their cell phone location data with the government as part of a sweeping program of monitoring and contract tracing ...
> 
> ... Additionally, China, Hong Kong, Singapore and Taiwan have barred foreigners from entering in recent days. Meanwhile, Japan has barred visitors from dozens of countries, including South Korea and the US. South Korea is mandating that foreign visitors spend 14-days in a government lockdown facility...
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> *Experts Fear 'Suicide Wave' As The Social Fabric Of America Becomes "Unstitched"*
> 
> https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/a...-rough-shape-job-loss-could-lead-suicide-wave
> 
> Millions of Americans have just lost their jobs in the last several weeks due to the COVID-19 outbreak shutting down large swaths of the US economy. Households are coming under severe financial stress, with no savings, insurmountable debts, and job loss. Many are waiting for President Trump’s stimulus check to arrive in the mail, some have skipped out on their rent or mortgage payments on April 1, and others have called their credit card companies to defer debt servicing payments as incomes for tens of millions of people have gone to zero.
> 
> The panic buying of food and supplies over the last month shows just how many people were unprepared for a national health crisis, nevertheless, now developing into an economic crash, and soon could be followed by a period of social unrest.
> 
> But before the social fabric of America becomes unstitched – households are to crack first. Their finances are piss-poor, with no savings and insurmountable debts, which include auto, credit cards, and student loans.
> 
> At the beginning of March, we noted how the gig-economy was about to crash, and by looking at the employment data that has come out since, along with future estimates, it’s pointing to an economic depression that could be arriving as soon as the second quarter.
> 
> Households are in rough shape. Many people are heavily medicated, own weapons, and have some sort of substance use disorder, suggesting that in periods of extreme financial stress – suicides could increase.
> 
> What’s concerning is that a suicide wave among low-income folks, who are already feeling the side effects of job loss, could be imminent.
> 
> President Trump warned in the last week of March that nationwide lockdowns must be reversed to prevent “tremendous death” from the economic depression, referring to the likely increase of suicides.
> 
> The 2008 Great Recession resulted in more than 10,000 suicides. The Great Depression resulted in tens of thousands of people taking their own lives.
> 
> ...households are crushed, have no money and or job, and that is likely why President Trump signed an executive order last Friday to call up as many as one million National Guard and reservists – not just to fight the virus outbreak – *but to maintain social order.*


----------



## tiredretired

mla2ofus said:


> Post # 715 is pretty intriguing!! Maybe Trump needs to bring this up to the WHO and the UN!!
> Mike



This is all on China. The government will never tell us the true story.  Never.

Their economy is failing.  The effort was to drag the US economy down to their level.

They seem to have succeeded.  Make no mistake, this is war.  Just a war without bullets or missiles, but a war nonetheless. 

The government will NEVER tell us the whole truth in all this.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Trump sticks it to cryin' Chuck:  https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing...dent-donald-j-trump-senator-charles-e-schumer


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

While this virus appears to discriminate against no one, it is only a matter of time.  Virtually, all of the commercial DNA test kits that everyone has been buying to find out if they are part Chippewa and part Israeli (like their crazy grandma insisted) are processed in China - this means that China has a huge database of all the DNA for a good chunk of the rest of the world.  

It's just a matter of time before some Chinese scientist engineers a virus that targets people with non-Chinese genes.  It will happen someday - I guarantee you.


----------



## tiredretired

PBinWA said:


> While this virus appears to discriminate against no one, it is only a matter of time.  Virtually, all of the commercial DNA test kits that everyone has been buying to find out if they are part Chippewa and part Israeli (like their crazy grandma insisted) are processed in China - this means that China has a huge database of all the DNA for a good chunk of the rest of the world.
> 
> It's just a matter of time before some Chinese scientist engineers a virus that targets people with non-Chinese genes.  It will happen someday - I guarantee you.



We refuse to take that DNA bullshit.  I know what I am, a rabid mongrel bastard.  Don't need no flippin' Chinaman test to tell me that.  :th_lmao:


----------



## Melensdad

YUP, Chicago has Zombies now. WTF?  Partially eaten body in Chinatown.


----------



## tiredretired

Melensdad said:


> YUP, Chicago has Zombies now. WTF?  Partially eaten body in Chinatown.



So it begins.  Where is Rick Grimes and Michonne when you need them.


----------



## EastTexFrank

Melensdad said:


> WTF?  Partially eaten body in Chinatown.



Oh!  I don't know about zombies but there will no doubt be some really bad, sick jokes about this.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

Wat u takink bout?  I no c your cat.


----------



## Bannedjoe

I had to make a trip to the homedopes today.
One entrance, one exit.
They are counting and limiting how many can enter the store.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

Same thing up here. More stores closing. All hardware stores have to either close completely or go to mail order and curbside pick up.


----------



## EastTexFrank

jim slagle said:


> The map shows you’re still at one.
> 
> 
> https://txdshs.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/ed483ecd702b4298ab01e8b9cafc8b83



Yea, you're right.  My wife's bush telegraph got it wrong.  Still only one case in Wood County.  There still aren't that many cases in the whole of East Texas.  The strange thing is that the majority of the cases are in the 21 - 45 year old age group.  There are still very few in the 60+ age group.  I think that most of the oldsters, like me, headed for the hills at the first signs of the outbreak and we're not coming out until it's over.  There are over 50 cases in Tyler, Smith County and 35 in Greg County which is Longview.  Both are large medical hubs.  I know that Tyler has 1500 beds ready to receive corona virus patients.  I don't know about Longview.  Most of the other counties have 1 to 4 cases.


----------



## pirate_girl

We use the 3 ply disposable masks.
While we are not in short supply as yet, they used to be throughout our facility in the wall mounts found in several locations.
Those boxes have been pulled and placed in the staff breakroom or in a specific area in central supply.

One of the older nurses fashioned cloth masks, which is all the rage now. More a fad than anything at the moment.
She made a ton of them using cloth scraps and ponytail holders.
The consensus is, "better than nothing".


----------



## Melensdad

pirate_girl said:


> We use the 3 ply disposable masks.
> While we are not in short supply as yet, they used to be throughout our facility in the wall mounts found in several locations.
> Those boxes have been pulled and placed in the staff breakroom or in a specific area in central supply.
> 
> One of the older nurses fashioned cloth masks, which is all the rage now. More a fad than anything at the moment.
> She made a ton of them using cloth scraps and ponytail holders.
> The consensus is, "better than nothing".
> 
> View attachment 125359



One of my former fencing students is a nurse in a hospital.  They are using homemade cloth masks OVER surgical masks and also wearing them OVER the Chinese KN95 masks, which seem to be dramatically inferior to high quality 3M N95 masks.


----------



## pirate_girl

Melensdad said:


> One of my former fencing students is a nurse in a hospital.  They are using homemade cloth masks OVER surgical masks and also wearing them OVER the Chinese KN95 masks, which seem to be dramatically inferior to high quality 3M N95 masks.


I wore the homemade one over the disposable one all day yesterday.
The problem there is it's very hard on the top of the ears, from pulling it down under my chin to talk to my hard of hearing rezzies.
Then there is the question of how to clean the homemade ones.
To launder or hand wash?
One nurse suggested mild dish soap mixed with Listerine, then air dry.
Hmmm..


----------



## Melensdad

In the mean time, the virus rages across the USA.  Some areas are still in good shape, but hotspots seem to be developing in many areas and hospital systems are starting to be stressed.  

The new/upcoming General Motors Ventilators are not yet being produced so ventilators are still in high demand.  But the reality is many states seem to have enough at the current levels of need.  New York City, where they defied all common sense and their mayor rebuked 'social distancing' is the overwhelming epicenter of our problems and seems to be in short supply of everything.

While Europe has been receiving shipments of PRE-PAID unworking/unreliable and inferior Chinese crap instead of legitimate medical supplies.  

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopoliti...defective-covid-19-fighting-medical-equipment

This is only a part of the story, please see the link above for full story.



> China Floods Europe With *Defective COVID-19-Fighting Medical Equipment*
> Authored by Soeren Kern via The Gatestone Institute,
> 
> As the coronavirus rages across Europe, a growing number of countries are reporting that millions of pieces of medical equipment donated by, or purchased from, China to defeat the pandemic are defective and unusable.
> 
> The revelations are fueling distrust of a public relations effort by Chinese President Xi Jinping and his Communist Party to portray China as the world's new humanitarian superpower.
> 
> On March 28, the* Netherlands* was forced to recall 1.3 million face masks produced in China because they did not meet the minimum safety standards for medical personnel. The so-called KN95 masks are a less expensive Chinese alternative to the American-standard N95 mask, which currently is in short supply around the world. The KN95 does not fit on the face as tightly as the N95, thus potentially exposing medical personnel to the coronavirus.
> 
> More than 500,000 of the KN95 masks had already been distributed to Dutch hospitals before the recall was enacted.
> 
> _"When the masks were delivered to our hospital, I immediately rejected them," a hospital worker told the Dutch public broadcaster NOS.
> 
> "If those masks do not seal properly, the virus particles can simply pass through. We cannot use them. They are unsafe for our people."​_
> In a written statement, the Dutch Ministry of Health explained:
> 
> _"A first shipment from a Chinese manufacturer was partly delivered last Saturday. These are masks with a KN95 quality certificate. During an inspection this shipment was found not to meet our quality standard. Part of this shipment had already been delivered to healthcare providers; the rest of the cargo was immediately withheld and not further distributed.
> 
> "A second test also showed that the masks did not meet our quality standard. It has now been decided that this entire shipment will not be used. New shipments will undergo additional tests."_​
> The* Dutch *newspaper NRC Handelsblad reported on March 17 that the Netherlands had only a few days' supply of masks: "All hope is now for that one cargo plane from China on Wednesday." The substandard quality of the masks delivered by China has left the Netherlands shattered. A spokesperson for a hospital in Dutch city of Eindhoven said that Chinese suppliers were selling "a lot of junk...at high prices."
> 
> *In Spain*, meanwhile, the Ministry of Health on March 26 revealed that 640,000 coronavirus tests that it had purchased from a Chinese vendor were defective. The tests, manufactured by Shenzhen Bioeasy Biotechnology Company in Guangdong province, had an accurate detection rate of less than 30%.
> 
> On April 2, the Spanish newspaper El Mundo reported that it had been presented with leaked documents which showed that Bioeasy had lied to the Spanish government about the accuracy of the tests. Bioeasy had claimed, in writing, that its tests had an accurate detection rate of 92%.
> 
> Also on April 2, the Spanish government revealed that a further million coronavirus tests delivered to Spain on March 30 by another Chinese manufacturer were also defective. The tests apparently required between five and six days to detect whether a patient is infected with coronavirus and were therefore useless to diagnose the disease in a timely manner.
> 
> On March 25, the Spanish government announced that it had purchased medical supplies from China in the amount of €432 million ($470 million), and that Chinese vendors demanded that they be paid up front before the deliveries were made. Spanish Health Minister Salvador Illa explained:
> 
> _"We have bought and paid for 550 million masks, which will start arriving now and will continue to arrive for the next eight weeks. 11 million gloves will arrive in the next five weeks. As for rapid tests, we have acquired 5.5 million for the months of March and April. In addition, we will receive 950 respirators during the months of April to June. We are managing the purchase of more equipment."_​
> It is not at all clear how the Spanish government will be able to guarantee the quality of these new mass purchases, or how it would obtain compensation if the products from China were again substandard.
> 
> On March 28, the French government, which apparently has only a few weeks' worth of supplies, announced that it had ordered more than one billion face masks from China. It is unclear whether the quality control problems experienced by other European countries would affect France's purchasing plans.
> 
> Other countries — in Europe and beyond — have also criticized the quality of Chinese medical supplies:
> 
> 
> *Slovakia.* On April 1, Prime Minister Igor Matovič said that more than a million coronavirus tests supplied by China for a cash payment of €15 million ($16 million) were inaccurate and unable to detect COVID-19. "We have a ton of tests and no use for them," he said. "They should just be thrown straight into the Danube." China accused Slovakian medical personnel of using the tests incorrectly.
> 
> *Malaysia.* On March 28, Malaysia received a consignment of medical equipment donated by China, consisting of test kits, medical face masks, surgical masks and other personal protective equipment. A senior official in the Ministry of Health, Noor Hisham Abdullah, said that the test kits would be evaluated for accuracy after previous test kits from China were found to be defective: "This is a different brand from the one we tested earlier. We will assess the new test kit which is FDA-approved. I was assured by the Chinese ambassador that this is more accurate than the other one we tested." Abdullah previously stated that the accuracy of the Chinese tests was "not very good."
> 
> *Turkey.* On March 27, Turkish Health Minister Fahrettin Koca said that Turkey had tried some Chinese-made coronavirus tests but authorities "weren't happy about them." Professor Ateş Kara, a member of the Turkish Health Ministry's coronavirus task force, added that the batch of testing kits were only 30 to 35% accurate: "We have tried them. They don't work. Spain has made a huge mistake by using them."
> 
> *Czech Republic.* On March 23, the Czech news site iRozhlas reported that 300,000 coronavirus test kits delivered by China had an error rate of 80%. The Czech Ministry of Interior had paid $2.1 million for the kits. On March 15, Czech media revealed that Chinese suppliers had swindled the Czech government after it paid upfront for the supply of five million face masks, which were supposed to have been delivered on March 16.
> 
> On March 30, *China urged European countries not to "politicize" concerns about the quality of medical supplies from China*. "Problems should be properly solved based on facts, not political interpretations," Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying said.




And there is generally more bad news, with only a few bright spots, as here is the daily summary from ZeroHedge:

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopoliti...ng-lockdown-combat-asias-second-wave-covid-19

> US Suffers Biggest Jump In New Cases, Deaths As Governors Battle For Ventilators: Live Updates
> Summary:
> 
> 
> US nonfarm payrolls was an unmitigated disaster
> CDC recommends Americans wear facemasks in public
> Russia reports drop in cases after extending quarantine
> *NY COVID-19 cases top 100k*
> Bolsonaro urges country to "go back to work" as Brazil's governors say opposite
> McConnell affirms 4th coronavirus bill in the works
> Brazil says first COVID-19 case and death in South American happened 1 month earlier
> Beijing says more than half of foreign diplomats identified as close contacts of COVID-19 patients
> NJ reports jump in new cases, deaths
> Number of recovered patients tops 250k globally
> *US reports biggest one-day jump in deaths, cases*
> Japan sees resurgence of cases continue
> Navy hospital ship in NY only treating 20 patients
> White House plans to pay for coronavirus care
> CNN's Brooke Baldwin tests positive
> Netherlands reports another 148 deaths
> *UK reports biggest daily jump in deaths*
> Thousands of small business owners excluded from 'Paycheck Protection Program'
> *Spain, Germany report encouraging deceleration in new cases*
> Singapore launches strict 14-day lockdown to fight virus resurgence
> Trump slams 3M on twitter
> 400M in loans doled out
> Bank of America becomes first big bank to issue loans via the plan
> Mnuchin confirms 'Paycheck Protection Plan' is a go
> Tokyo mayor warns about resurgence of cases on CNN
> *    *    *
> 
> Update (1920ET): Johns Hopkins University just updated its database of COVID-19 infections...and the death toll in the US has climbed north of 7k after US states reported 1,314 new deaths on Friday, the biggest one-day jump in the US since the outbreak began. The CDC also confirmed 31,160 new cases, the biggest one-day jump in cases, bringing the US total to 276,037.
> 
> ...
> 
> President Trump said Friday that the CDC has reversed its position on face masks - it had previously recommended that Americans specifically not buy masks to alleviate supply shortages creating problems for hospitals and doctors offices - and is now officially recommending that all Americans wear masks when they venture out in public.
> 
> As we noted earlier, circumstances vary widely across the US: there are still a dozen states who haven't issued mandatory 'stay at home' orders. But as supply shortages remain, the unfortunate truth - that *masks really do help prevent the spread of COVID-19* - could no longer be ignored, as more empirical evidence suggested that people should wear masks...


----------



## m1west

I wish I could figure out how to post a link on this site. Anyway if this trend continues the folks just getting by and didn't put anything in reserve are going to be hurting units.


----------



## pirate_girl

This, from AAPS online.
It's long, and I hate copy and paste long posts, but I think it's an important read.
---------
By Martin Dubravec, MD

*Introduction*

At this time, the United States is seeing what very well may be the peak in deaths from the latest human Coronavirus, also known as COVID-19. The media reporting and governmental response to this viral outbreak is unprecedented. But what is more concerning than the virus itself is our American collective response to it. It is no less than tragic. If it is not seen for what it is, it very well may mean the end of the American experiment and will lead to a new totalitarianism that will harm and persecute future generations. It is reasonable to look at the three pillars of a stable society and how each of these pillars (medical, legal/civil, religious) has addressed and responded to the virus.

*Medical*

Coronaviruses have been known in the United States since their discovery over 50 years ago. Certain strains of these viruses infect humans, while some tend to infect animals. It has been shown that these viruses have the ability to jump from animals to humans and vice versa. These viruses rarely cause death in humans; they are often cited as the cause of common colds. COVID-19 is for the most part acting in the same way but with a notable exception – it can be deadly in elderly and the immunocompromised. It hits these populations fast and hard. Nonetheless, even in Italy, where the virus has killed thousands, most of those (78.3%) over the age of 90 recovered. This is different from influenza epidemics in 1918 or 2010; those epidemics involved all ages.This ability for younger individuals to be safe from serious illness has important implications for treating the virus and will be discussed below. Ultraviolet light can be a significant treatment for the virus as UV light damages viral DNA and RNA and therefore kill it.

The only way to effectively combat the disease from a practical standpoint (other than herd immunity) is to shield those at high risk until the virus has run its course through the country. Patients with significant underlying health conditions (cancer, lung disease, immune deficiency disorders) and those over the age of 65 should isolate themselves to the best of their abilities.

*Rates of death and illness*

Of all the deaths reported in the United States as of today, only 2 have been in patients under 18 years of age. Currently, our death rate (deaths/confirmed cases) has been as high as 2.3% and as low as 1.1% over the past 2 weeks. The President’s COVID-19 Taskforce estimated that as many at 1/1000 New Yorkers may have the virus. If this were projected to the entire United States (population 328,239,523), then the total number of COVID-19 would be approximately 328, 239 and deaths from COVID-19 (1.8% death rate) at 5,909. Even if this ends up being wrong by 1,000 percent, the death rate would still be 59,000, i.e., within range of the estimates for influenza deaths.You can look at it in another way. 98% of people who get COVID-19 fully recover!

As of today (March 29, 2020) there are 123,828 confirmed cases and 2229 deaths (1.8% death rate) from COVID-19 in the United States. Compare that with the influenza estimates so far this year: 29,000 deaths! And the flu season is not yet over, with the CDC estimating as many as 59,000 will die of influenza by May of this year. 

The CDC estimates that influenza like illnesses and pneumonia account for 7.3% of total deaths this year. This rate is similar to previous years. Who in the media is discussing this?

Another important point: due to a lack of testing kits (which should be resolved in the next few weeks), the total number of those who have contracted COVID-19 is much higher, as most COVID-19 infections are mild or not even felt by patients. Our ability to learn from Italy (and maybe from China) has allowed us to develop treatment strategies that weren’t even considered just 6 weeks ago. These findings should make our death rate lower than other parts of the world.

There is mass confusion with regard to the statistics and the media has utilized this to bring fear and panic to the population. Statistics on who has been exposed, who has it, who is seriously ill with it and what are projected numbers of deaths have been incredibly wrong. In Great Britain, the apocalypse warning of over 200,000 deaths by some experts has recently been downgraded to 20,000. Much of the public health modelling is based on Chinese data which is completely unreliable – communist governments consistently lie about their situations. Italy has more reliable data but we can’t say we are going the way of Italy. Their healthcare system is third world medicine with good pasta, red wine, and gelato. Italy has one of the highest rates of elderly in Europe – prime targets for the disease as they like to smoke and drink.* Also, northern Italy is home to the highest concentration of Chinese in Europe. Travel to and from China sparked the outbreak there.

Despite all of these facts and observations, the medical community seems to be panicked almost, at times, to the same extent as the general population. Helpful and necessary therapies and evaluations are being denied to millions of individuals due to concerns of spreading the virus. Many clinics are closed due to a misplaced fear that they will spread the virus if they stay open. For other clinics that desire to stay open, due to hoarding and panic, they have had to close due to the inability to keep stocked with necessary supplies. How many influenza deaths, heart attacks, pneumonias, fractures, etc., will be missed because the medical community is afraid to go to work? How many suicides and drug overdoses will result from our current policies? Telemedicine is used as a response to those healthcare professionals panicked about getting ill (assuming they are low risk) with this virus; there is no substitute for face-to-face interactions with patients. A little common sense could go a long way: patients with cough, fever, bronchitis could be treated over the phone. High risk patients should be isolated if they are doing well and their routine health appointments should be rescheduled.* Those who are otherwise healthy but need physical therapy, routine evaluations, follow-ups, orthopedic surgery, etc., should get them if possible. You don’t need to stop seeing a 12 year old for her acne if she has no other medical problems and the doctor is low risk.

Most people don’t get COVID-19. Why?

Testing of high risk people (those who most likely would get COVID-19 due to exposure to confirmed COVID-19 patients or travel from high risk areas) reveal that 90% of patients are testing negative, i.e., they have not evidence of disease. Why is that? Most likely, these patients have pre-existing immunity to the virus*from previous exposure to COVID-19*or due to cross-reactive immunity from being infected by related Coronaviruses.* Many people have stated that they suffered symptoms of Coronavirus earlier this year.* Due to a lack of testing, many people most likely have had exposure to the virus; they have developed immunity to it.

This is why the concept of herd immunity is so important.* With herd immunity, significant amounts of the population will have exposure to the virus and become immune to it.* They are no longer able to spread the virus as their immune systems kill the virus before it has a chance to grow and multiply.* That individual then becomes not a source of viral spread but a source of killing the virus.* The virus has nowhere to go and it disappears.
*
Public Policy is Making Things Worse*

Unfortunately, our so-called public health experts have pushed for containment and mitigation.* President Trump tried early to contain the virus outside the USA with a travel ban from China.* However, a French businessman who visited China in January, came back to France, and then came to the United States out of Europe would be able to carry the virus.* Containment didn’t work as the virus was documented on American soil by the end of January.

Mitigation is the concept that if you slow the spread of the virus, it will blunt the surge of cases and prevent us from overwhelming hospitals with seriously ill patients.* Mitigation efforts have included ordering people to stay in their homes, closing non-essential businesses, and restricting where people can go to locally.* This has had no impact on the virus nor should it, as these mitigation efforts are incomplete.* For example, in Michigan, people are told to stay home except to go shopping, to go to essential work, and to exercise outdoors.* Exemptions include Walmart, Home Depot, pharmacies, grocery stores (Meijer, Family Fare), and liquor stores.* The big box stores are full of bored, scared, unemployed people.* The ability of viral spread is very high in these stores.* Also, fast food stores are busy with drive through business.* It only takes one asymptomatic window cashier at these drive trough’s to spread the virus to literally dozens of carloads of people.

Therefore, containment and mitigation are abject failures.* They do not help the situation because they are not being practiced!* Nor can they be; our borders are thousands of miles long.* Our population needs to eat and get medicines and health care.* It is completely unrealistic to believe that mitigation efforts can succeed in a country this big.* In totalitarian China, a wall was literally built around Wuhan, the epicenter of the epidemic, to contain and mitigate the virus.* Unless we want to become a totalitarian state, we can’t do that here.* If we can learn anything from this epidemic is that mitigation efforts that destroy our economy were some of the biggest boondoggles every foisted on the American people.* Even worse, they aren’t necessary.* We have better ways to combat this virus.

What can be done to end this epidemic?* The answer is herd immunity.* Let those who will not die nor become seriously ill from the disease get infected and immune to the disease.* Don’t close schools – open them up!* Don’t close universities – reopen them!* Let those under the age of 65 with no significant health problems go to work.* Their risk of death is very close to zero. **They become the wall that stops the virus.* Our current strategy of isolating these healthy people from the virus: a. is not working – the virus is still spreading and b. for those who theoretically may be shielded from the virus, they will get exposed later.* Our current strategy is actually leading to a prolonged COVID-19 season!* Herd immunity works and despite our current efforts to mess it up, herd immunity will be the ultimate reason the virus dies down.* We should promote the concept, not try to stop it.* Unlike the influenza epidemics of the past, this virus is not attacking young people.* We can use herd immunity to our collective advantage.

Media pundits falsely railed against college students spending spring break on the beaches of Florida.* Wild behavior aside, these partiers represent the most effective approach to stopping the spread of the virus, i.e., sunlight and herd immunity of the young and healthy.

If a 10 year old theoretically is not exposed to the virus and is allowed out of the house in 2 months, gets the virus (mild cold or even less symptoms) and then visits Grandma and she dies, who is responsible for that?

Public health leaders have focused on trying in vain to prevent the spread of the virus.* They have not looked at the ramifications of suicide rates when people are forced to be sequestered for this length of time.* Also lost are the mental and physical consequences of this huge hit to our economy.* Have any of these experts even remotely factored in the economic damage to our healthcare system from the loss of jobs and businesses in the United States?* It certainly does not seem to be.* No country can adequately fight an enemy like an infectious disease without a working economy.

*Legal/Civil*

Many are more concerned with what is happening to American society than what the virus will do to us medically.* Bad government policies are leading to economic destruction, possibly on a scale not ever seen in our country.* This is being imposed upon us.* State governors seem almost in a race to see who can cause the most dramatic removal of basic constitutional liberties.* Some states have police officers pulling people over to quiz them where they are going.* Some businesses have printed papers that their employees carry to show they are going to work in an essential business.* All of this for a projected 5909 deaths from the virus!* All of this is reminiscent of Nazi and communist state control of people.* It seems to be working; with their willing accomplices in the media, Americans at this time are seemingly eager to exchange their freedom for what they believe to be security and safety.* What they don’t realize is if this is allowed to continue, they will lose their security, safety and their freedom.

What will happen with the next epidemic?* Will we do this for the next outbreak of flu? Or Strep? Or drug overdoses?* What type of precedent will this set?

Federal and state leaders are using bad public health policy to promote even worse regulation.* Several have remarked that this epidemic offers those who wish to subdue the population an excellent way to see what works and how long it takes to corral people into almost total submission; it’s taking about a month.

*Religious*

(note Catholic bend– author is Catholic)

Due to panic about the virus, most churches have closed.* This may be unprecedented in world history. Throughout the ages, churches have been open and increasingly active during times of famine, pestilence, and war.* Instead, what is happening in the United States is that churches have shuttered.* For Catholics who believe that the Mass is the ultimate church service that provides the most proper atonement for sins and petition in times of strife, the closure of churches is just plain wrong.* Perhaps this is a chastisement of God for a society that is post truth: *it is post-Christian and post-science (exhibited by panic, even among physicians and scientists).* Where is the call for prayer, repentance, and mercy?* President Trump announced a national day of prayer for this virus.* Where were our bishops?* The only observation that can be made is that American bishops, as a group, lack supernatural faith. *What’s also disgusting is that they are offering no pushback whatsoever for the denial of religious liberty instituted by numerous governors. Having outdoor services and instructing church members to stay home if they are ill or at high risk for infection are common sense measures to employ.* If we are concerned about social distancing, how about increasing the number of church services (as has been done by some churches in the United States) instead of closing them?*

Our Father, Who art in Heaven, hallowed by Thy Name.*Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done, on earth as it is in Heaven. Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us.*And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.*Have mercy on us.* Free us from the grip of fear and panic.*Forgive us for all of the wrongdoing that should bring Your wrath upon us.

Martin Dubravec, MD
Allergist/Clinical
Immunologist Allergy and Asthma Specialists of Cadillac Cadillac, MI


----------



## m1west

pirate_girl said:


> This, from AAPS online.
> It's long, and I hate copy and paste long posts, but I think it's an important read.
> ---------
> By Martin Dubravec, MD
> 
> *Introduction*
> 
> At this time, the United States is seeing what very well may be the peak in deaths from the latest human Coronavirus, also known as COVID-19. The media reporting and governmental response to this viral outbreak is unprecedented. But what is more concerning than the virus itself is our American collective response to it. It is no less than tragic. If it is not seen for what it is, it very well may mean the end of the American experiment and will lead to a new totalitarianism that will harm and persecute future generations. It is reasonable to look at the three pillars of a stable society and how each of these pillars (medical, legal/civil, religious) has addressed and responded to the virus.
> 
> *Medical*
> 
> Coronaviruses have been known in the United States since their discovery over 50 years ago. Certain strains of these viruses infect humans, while some tend to infect animals. It has been shown that these viruses have the ability to jump from animals to humans and vice versa. These viruses rarely cause death in humans; they are often cited as the cause of common colds. COVID-19 is for the most part acting in the same way but with a notable exception – it can be deadly in elderly and the immunocompromised. It hits these populations fast and hard. Nonetheless, even in Italy, where the virus has killed thousands, most of those (78.3%) over the age of 90 recovered. This is different from influenza epidemics in 1918 or 2010; those epidemics involved all ages.This ability for younger individuals to be safe from serious illness has important implications for treating the virus and will be discussed below. Ultraviolet light can be a significant treatment for the virus as UV light damages viral DNA and RNA and therefore kill it.
> 
> The only way to effectively combat the disease from a practical standpoint (other than herd immunity) is to shield those at high risk until the virus has run its course through the country. Patients with significant underlying health conditions (cancer, lung disease, immune deficiency disorders) and those over the age of 65 should isolate themselves to the best of their abilities.
> 
> *Rates of death and illness*
> 
> Of all the deaths reported in the United States as of today, only 2 have been in patients under 18 years of age. Currently, our death rate (deaths/confirmed cases) has been as high as 2.3% and as low as 1.1% over the past 2 weeks. The President’s COVID-19 Taskforce estimated that as many at 1/1000 New Yorkers may have the virus. If this were projected to the entire United States (population 328,239,523), then the total number of COVID-19 would be approximately 328, 239 and deaths from COVID-19 (1.8% death rate) at 5,909. Even if this ends up being wrong by 1,000 percent, the death rate would still be 59,000, i.e., within range of the estimates for influenza deaths.You can look at it in another way. 98% of people who get COVID-19 fully recover!
> 
> As of today (March 29, 2020) there are 123,828 confirmed cases and 2229 deaths (1.8% death rate) from COVID-19 in the United States. Compare that with the influenza estimates so far this year: 29,000 deaths! And the flu season is not yet over, with the CDC estimating as many as 59,000 will die of influenza by May of this year.
> 
> The CDC estimates that influenza like illnesses and pneumonia account for 7.3% of total deaths this year. This rate is similar to previous years. Who in the media is discussing this?
> 
> Another important point: due to a lack of testing kits (which should be resolved in the next few weeks), the total number of those who have contracted COVID-19 is much higher, as most COVID-19 infections are mild or not even felt by patients. Our ability to learn from Italy (and maybe from China) has allowed us to develop treatment strategies that weren’t even considered just 6 weeks ago. These findings should make our death rate lower than other parts of the world.
> 
> There is mass confusion with regard to the statistics and the media has utilized this to bring fear and panic to the population. Statistics on who has been exposed, who has it, who is seriously ill with it and what are projected numbers of deaths have been incredibly wrong. In Great Britain, the apocalypse warning of over 200,000 deaths by some experts has recently been downgraded to 20,000. Much of the public health modelling is based on Chinese data which is completely unreliable – communist governments consistently lie about their situations. Italy has more reliable data but we can’t say we are going the way of Italy. Their healthcare system is third world medicine with good pasta, red wine, and gelato. Italy has one of the highest rates of elderly in Europe – prime targets for the disease as they like to smoke and drink.* Also, northern Italy is home to the highest concentration of Chinese in Europe. Travel to and from China sparked the outbreak there.
> 
> Despite all of these facts and observations, the medical community seems to be panicked almost, at times, to the same extent as the general population. Helpful and necessary therapies and evaluations are being denied to millions of individuals due to concerns of spreading the virus. Many clinics are closed due to a misplaced fear that they will spread the virus if they stay open. For other clinics that desire to stay open, due to hoarding and panic, they have had to close due to the inability to keep stocked with necessary supplies. How many influenza deaths, heart attacks, pneumonias, fractures, etc., will be missed because the medical community is afraid to go to work? How many suicides and drug overdoses will result from our current policies? Telemedicine is used as a response to those healthcare professionals panicked about getting ill (assuming they are low risk) with this virus; there is no substitute for face-to-face interactions with patients. A little common sense could go a long way: patients with cough, fever, bronchitis could be treated over the phone. High risk patients should be isolated if they are doing well and their routine health appointments should be rescheduled.* Those who are otherwise healthy but need physical therapy, routine evaluations, follow-ups, orthopedic surgery, etc., should get them if possible. You don’t need to stop seeing a 12 year old for her acne if she has no other medical problems and the doctor is low risk.
> 
> Most people don’t get COVID-19. Why?
> 
> Testing of high risk people (those who most likely would get COVID-19 due to exposure to confirmed COVID-19 patients or travel from high risk areas) reveal that 90% of patients are testing negative, i.e., they have not evidence of disease. Why is that? Most likely, these patients have pre-existing immunity to the virus*from previous exposure to COVID-19*or due to cross-reactive immunity from being infected by related Coronaviruses.* Many people have stated that they suffered symptoms of Coronavirus earlier this year.* Due to a lack of testing, many people most likely have had exposure to the virus; they have developed immunity to it.
> 
> This is why the concept of herd immunity is so important.* With herd immunity, significant amounts of the population will have exposure to the virus and become immune to it.* They are no longer able to spread the virus as their immune systems kill the virus before it has a chance to grow and multiply.* That individual then becomes not a source of viral spread but a source of killing the virus.* The virus has nowhere to go and it disappears.
> *
> Public Policy is Making Things Worse*
> 
> Unfortunately, our so-called public health experts have pushed for containment and mitigation.* President Trump tried early to contain the virus outside the USA with a travel ban from China.* However, a French businessman who visited China in January, came back to France, and then came to the United States out of Europe would be able to carry the virus.* Containment didn’t work as the virus was documented on American soil by the end of January.
> 
> Mitigation is the concept that if you slow the spread of the virus, it will blunt the surge of cases and prevent us from overwhelming hospitals with seriously ill patients.* Mitigation efforts have included ordering people to stay in their homes, closing non-essential businesses, and restricting where people can go to locally.* This has had no impact on the virus nor should it, as these mitigation efforts are incomplete.* For example, in Michigan, people are told to stay home except to go shopping, to go to essential work, and to exercise outdoors.* Exemptions include Walmart, Home Depot, pharmacies, grocery stores (Meijer, Family Fare), and liquor stores.* The big box stores are full of bored, scared, unemployed people.* The ability of viral spread is very high in these stores.* Also, fast food stores are busy with drive through business.* It only takes one asymptomatic window cashier at these drive trough’s to spread the virus to literally dozens of carloads of people.
> 
> Therefore, containment and mitigation are abject failures.* They do not help the situation because they are not being practiced!* Nor can they be; our borders are thousands of miles long.* Our population needs to eat and get medicines and health care.* It is completely unrealistic to believe that mitigation efforts can succeed in a country this big.* In totalitarian China, a wall was literally built around Wuhan, the epicenter of the epidemic, to contain and mitigate the virus.* Unless we want to become a totalitarian state, we can’t do that here.* If we can learn anything from this epidemic is that mitigation efforts that destroy our economy were some of the biggest boondoggles every foisted on the American people.* Even worse, they aren’t necessary.* We have better ways to combat this virus.
> 
> What can be done to end this epidemic?* The answer is herd immunity.* Let those who will not die nor become seriously ill from the disease get infected and immune to the disease.* Don’t close schools – open them up!* Don’t close universities – reopen them!* Let those under the age of 65 with no significant health problems go to work.* Their risk of death is very close to zero. **They become the wall that stops the virus.* Our current strategy of isolating these healthy people from the virus: a. is not working – the virus is still spreading and b. for those who theoretically may be shielded from the virus, they will get exposed later.* Our current strategy is actually leading to a prolonged COVID-19 season!* Herd immunity works and despite our current efforts to mess it up, herd immunity will be the ultimate reason the virus dies down.* We should promote the concept, not try to stop it.* Unlike the influenza epidemics of the past, this virus is not attacking young people.* We can use herd immunity to our collective advantage.
> 
> Media pundits falsely railed against college students spending spring break on the beaches of Florida.* Wild behavior aside, these partiers represent the most effective approach to stopping the spread of the virus, i.e., sunlight and herd immunity of the young and healthy.
> 
> If a 10 year old theoretically is not exposed to the virus and is allowed out of the house in 2 months, gets the virus (mild cold or even less symptoms) and then visits Grandma and she dies, who is responsible for that?
> 
> Public health leaders have focused on trying in vain to prevent the spread of the virus.* They have not looked at the ramifications of suicide rates when people are forced to be sequestered for this length of time.* Also lost are the mental and physical consequences of this huge hit to our economy.* Have any of these experts even remotely factored in the economic damage to our healthcare system from the loss of jobs and businesses in the United States?* It certainly does not seem to be.* No country can adequately fight an enemy like an infectious disease without a working economy.
> 
> *Legal/Civil*
> 
> Many are more concerned with what is happening to American society than what the virus will do to us medically.* Bad government policies are leading to economic destruction, possibly on a scale not ever seen in our country.* This is being imposed upon us.* State governors seem almost in a race to see who can cause the most dramatic removal of basic constitutional liberties.* Some states have police officers pulling people over to quiz them where they are going.* Some businesses have printed papers that their employees carry to show they are going to work in an essential business.* All of this for a projected 5909 deaths from the virus!* All of this is reminiscent of Nazi and communist state control of people.* It seems to be working; with their willing accomplices in the media, Americans at this time are seemingly eager to exchange their freedom for what they believe to be security and safety.* What they don’t realize is if this is allowed to continue, they will lose their security, safety and their freedom.
> 
> What will happen with the next epidemic?* Will we do this for the next outbreak of flu? Or Strep? Or drug overdoses?* What type of precedent will this set?
> 
> Federal and state leaders are using bad public health policy to promote even worse regulation.* Several have remarked that this epidemic offers those who wish to subdue the population an excellent way to see what works and how long it takes to corral people into almost total submission; it’s taking about a month.
> 
> *Religious*
> 
> (note Catholic bend– author is Catholic)
> 
> Due to panic about the virus, most churches have closed.* This may be unprecedented in world history. Throughout the ages, churches have been open and increasingly active during times of famine, pestilence, and war.* Instead, what is happening in the United States is that churches have shuttered.* For Catholics who believe that the Mass is the ultimate church service that provides the most proper atonement for sins and petition in times of strife, the closure of churches is just plain wrong.* Perhaps this is a chastisement of God for a society that is post truth: *it is post-Christian and post-science (exhibited by panic, even among physicians and scientists).* Where is the call for prayer, repentance, and mercy?* President Trump announced a national day of prayer for this virus.* Where were our bishops?* The only observation that can be made is that American bishops, as a group, lack supernatural faith. *What’s also disgusting is that they are offering no pushback whatsoever for the denial of religious liberty instituted by numerous governors. Having outdoor services and instructing church members to stay home if they are ill or at high risk for infection are common sense measures to employ.* If we are concerned about social distancing, how about increasing the number of church services (as has been done by some churches in the United States) instead of closing them?*
> 
> Our Father, Who art in Heaven, hallowed by Thy Name.*Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done, on earth as it is in Heaven. Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us.*And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.*Have mercy on us.* Free us from the grip of fear and panic.*Forgive us for all of the wrongdoing that should bring Your wrath upon us.
> 
> Martin Dubravec, MD
> Allergist/Clinical
> Immunologist Allergy and Asthma Specialists of Cadillac Cadillac, MI



Thats great but no one knows who will get the mild symptoms and who will die. So its like 100 people held at bay with one man with a gun, sure you can rush him and he can't shoot everyone but who wants to go first?


----------



## pirate_girl

True that.
My initial intent was to only post a partial section of that article.
This one.


> Most people don’t get COVID-19. Why?
> 
> Testing of high risk people (those who most likely would get COVID-19 due to exposure to confirmed COVID-19 patients or travel from high risk areas) reveal that 90% of patients are testing negative, i.e., they have not evidence of disease. Why is that?
> 
> Most likely, these patients have pre-existing immunity to the virusfrom previous exposure to COVID-19 or due to cross-reactive immunity from being infected by related Coronaviruses.
> 
> Many people have stated that they suffered symptoms of Coronavirus earlier this year. Due to a lack of testing, many people most likely have had exposure to the virus; they have developed immunity to it.


That right there nails what I have been thinking and still believe, since February.


----------



## EastTexFrank

A big time prepper friend in Dallas told me yesterday that Dallas County is on Stay at Home/Lockdown until May 30th.  For her and her husband that won't be a problem but I can see trouble brewing elsewhere.  Most people can't stay at home that long and get by without a lot of help.


----------



## mla2ofus

PG, it seems to me you could spray an N95 or similar with rubbing alcohol which is 70% and let it dry to kill any organism on it. But I guess you'd have stupid ones who'd spray it and then don the mask!! That might be a simple way to clean up the gene pool.
Mike


----------



## m1west

pirate_girl said:


> We use the 3 ply disposable masks.
> While we are not in short supply as yet, they used to be throughout our facility in the wall mounts found in several locations.
> Those boxes have been pulled and placed in the staff breakroom or in a specific area in central supply.
> 
> One of the older nurses fashioned cloth masks, which is all the rage now. More a fad than anything at the moment.
> She made a ton of them using cloth scraps and ponytail holders.
> The consensus is, "better than nothing".
> 
> View attachment 125359



On the lighter side, those look like things I used to find on the floor in the back seat of my car in high school :th_lmao:


----------



## FrancSevin

Melensdad said:


> In the mean time, the virus rages across the USA. Some areas are still in good shape, but hotspots seem to be developing in many areas and hospital systems are starting to be stressed.
> 
> The new/upcoming General Motors Ventilators are not yet being produced so ventilators are still in high demand. But the reality is many states seem to have enough at the current levels of need. New York City, where they defied all common sense and their mayor rebuked 'social distancing' is the overwhelming epicenter of our problems and seems to be in short supply of everything.
> 
> While Europe has been receiving shipments of PRE-PAID unworking/unreliable and inferior Chinese crap instead of legitimate medical supplies.
> 
> https://www.zerohedge.com/geopoliti...defective-covid-19-fighting-medical-equipment
> 
> This is only a part of the story, please see the link above for full story.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​And there is generally more bad news, with only a few bright spots, as here is the daily summary from ZeroHedge:
> 
> https://www.zerohedge.com/geopoliti...ng-lockdown-combat-asias-second-wave-covid-19
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​



First let me state clearly my objection to any, I mean ANY, dependence on the benevolence of the Chinese government. The disease started there, they let it get away and infect the world. Think about that.

As for the USA, we need to get back to work or we face not another recession but a full blown depression. The current methodology of person to person separation, by shutting down the nation's commerce, can only last so long before permanent damage occurs. We have to develop ways and means to get back to work. The government has no real plan or mechanism in place to do that.

The thing is, we here in America cannot stop production. Commerce must continue. Not just manufacturing plants like mine, but so many other activities. And I don't think creating martial law type regulations help. The provision of goods and services must continue. Not just so-called essentials but some, if not most, of the non-essentials.

I say this not out of reckless disregard, but common sense which suggests that hiding in our homes cannot go on for long or our system collapses completely. Keep in mind, our government cannot "DO" anything but write directives, rules and ,,,,; CHECKS.

Checks written out of internet ether, and the good will and faith of the American people. Funded on what? Unicorn farts? 

The US government did not put a man on the moon. American ingenuity, coupled with American industry did that. All Uncle Sam did was write checks. All written with real money in the treasury.

Additionally, and this is my worst fear, I worry this "crisis" may well convince many gullible citizens that the US government can provide all we need. That the good will and faith of Americans will become comfortable with the idea, and want to permanently change our government to do so. I'd like to remind everyone, our Government was not designed to be that "source." In fact, the Founders created it's structure such that it cannot do so, and knew to do so would not allow the population remain as freemen.

Our officials often have to make temporary orders to deal with an emergency situation. Police and military often tell us what to do and we dutifully comply. This emergency is not the same as diverting traffic around a landslide. Landslides are cleared, traffic goes back to normal, and we move on.

What if COVID-19 remains? Surely we can adapt without hiding under our pillows. Is that what Americans have become?

Total _stay at home lockdowns _is what cowards do when ordered by an all powerful government. Our economy, and our spirit, will not long tolerate such subservient obedience.


----------



## m1west

Looks like California and Washington state have flattened the curve by getting on the stay at home order band wagon early. While NY and NYC were openly encouraging people to go to the bars and restraunts just weeks ago?? And now are paying the price, as well as Florida, Michigan, Louisiana and Texas. Staying home and staying away seems to be the best medicine.


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> Looks like California and Washington state have flattened the curve by getting on the stay at home order band wagon early. While NY and NYC were openly encouraging people to go to the bars and restraunts just weeks ago?? And now are paying the price, as well as Florida, Michigan, Louisiana and Texas. Staying home and staying away seems to be the best medicine.



I think we will see lots of problems in Georgia and Tennessee too.

It seems to me the dates at which each state hits its "peaks" and how high those peaks are going to be depends upon how quickly the states reacted.  

I'm not sure that states need a "state wide" lockdown but certainly county wide.  Especially in RURAL states.  How do you lock down Iowa, Nebraska or Montana?  I understand locking down DesMoines and the county where it is located, (_Ditto for Iowa City_) but if they lock that down tight, then the rest of the state can potentially go about its business.  But I think if they did that they would have to have stronger lock downs than we have in my state, which is basically just a vacation.

Here in Indiana the Target and WalMart stores are doing brisk business, at the expense of Kohl's and JCPenny.  If you leave Target and WalMart open then level the playing field and only leave the FOOD and DRUG areas open.  All stores that sell PET FOOD are also open in my state so Tractor Supply and all the garden centers are open.  All the mechanics shops, and all the auto parts stores are open.  The dollar stores are open.  The big hardware stores are open.

It would be easier to list the stores that are close


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> I think we will see lots of problems in Georgia and Tennessee too.
> 
> It seems to me the dates at which each state hits its "peaks" and how high those peaks are going to be depends upon how quickly the states reacted.
> 
> I'm not sure that states need a "state wide" lockdown but certainly county wide.  Especially in RURAL states.  How do you lock down Iowa, Nebraska or Montana?  I understand locking down DesMoines and the county where it is located, (_Ditto for Iowa City_) but if they lock that down tight, then the rest of the state can potentially go about its business.  But I think if they did that they would have to have stronger lock downs than we have in my state, which is basically just a vacation.
> 
> Here in Indiana the Target and WalMart stores are doing brisk business, at the expense of Kohl's and JCPenny.  If you leave Target and WalMart open then level the playing field and only leave the FOOD and DRUG areas open.  All stores that sell PET FOOD are also open in my state so Tractor Supply and all the garden centers are open.  All the mechanics shops, and all the auto parts stores are open.  The dollar stores are open.  The big hardware stores are open.
> 
> It would be easier to list the stores that are close



Doing selective lockdowns could work to get the economy going again but there would have to be controls on it, like if your area is open because there is no cases then travel would still have to be controlled in and out of that area so it didn't become the next hotspot. Its human nature to run to safety from danger so you would have to prevent people from running from lets say Dallas to El Paso etc.


----------



## EastTexFrank

m1west said:


> Doing selective lockdowns could work to get the economy going again but there would have to be controls on it, like if your area is open because there is no cases then travel would still have to be controlled in and out of that area so it didn't become the next hotspot. Its human nature to run to safety from danger so you would have to prevent people from running from lets say *Dallas to El Paso* etc.



That's pretty much from one hotspot to another.  What we need to do is keep them the hell out of East Texas.


----------



## road squawker

Melensdad said:


> I think we will see lots of problems in Georgia and Tennessee too... edit...



The rural areas of Tn are pretty much unaffected.

The (heavily Democratic) metros of Memphis, Nashville, Chattanooga, and Knoxville are heavily infected.


----------



## m1west

Another thing I think could get people out of Quarantine is put the whole country on Hydroxie Cloraquine ( forgive the spelling ) as is a safe drug shown to help. Last night on the news there was a doctor that stated that people take it for other ailments and those people are not getting sick.


----------



## Melensdad

Food shortages?  

This is NOT being reported, it is being questioned about IF it could happen.  And PPE is the big safety factor in keeping the food supply open.

https://news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-...tages-says-government-document-223308504.html



> Coronavirus may cause some food shortages, warns government task force
> 
> WASHINGTON — The nation could begin to see food shortages for some products* if the people working on the supply chain lack personal protective equipment*, warns an internal Trump administration document obtained by Yahoo News.
> 
> Empty supermarket shelves have become one of the most jarring images of the coronavirus pandemic, which has sickened 270,000 Americans and killed 7,000. But so far, there have been no food shortages, despite 90 percent of the American population being under state-enforced lockdown orders.
> 
> And despite the difficulties people have had in obtaining certain foods, like pasta, grocery stores are generally well stocked. Government officials have argued that any temporary shortages are the result of unprecedented demand, as people have bought more than usual, rather than an actual supply-chain breakdown.
> 
> “I want to assure you that our food supply chain is sound,” Sonny Perdue, the secretary of agriculture, said on March 20.
> 
> That, however, could change if the people who make, package and deliver food lack personal protective equipment, or PPE, including face masks and gloves, according to the internal document shared with Yahoo News, which provides a daily update on various aspects of the coronavirus response, including details ranging from state-by-state infections to hospital capacity and test sites.
> 
> The document, titled “Senior Leadership Brief COVID-19” and dated April 2, 2020, bears the seals of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, the Department of Homeland Security and the Department of Health and Human Services. It contains a brief description of findings made by the Food Supply Chain Task Force on the availability of PPE.
> 
> Such equipment has been in short supply in hospitals, where doctors and nurses are routinely exposed to high amounts of coronavirus. The food industry also relies on a variety of protective equipment for food safety.
> 
> *The April 2 briefing warns that the task force had completed an analysis and there could be “commodity impacts if current PPE inventory is exhausted.” *There would be shortages of milk within 24 hours and of fresh fruits and vegetables “within several days.” The document estimates that “meat, poultry, seafood, and processed eggs” would become scarce within a period of two to four weeks, while “dry goods and processed foods inventories” — that is, the non-perishables that are pantry staples — could become scarce “as soon as four weeks” after face masks and gloves run out across the food supply chain.
> 
> *The document is a warning, and is not descriptive of the current situation. There are no signs of a food shortage across the nation. But the coronavirus pandemic is putting strain on every aspect of the food supply chain, from the people who raise and grow what we eat to the people who deliver it to our supermarkets...*
> ...
> 
> ... the United States *“came into the whole virus outbreak with a relatively strong position. Because of the China trade war, lots of frozen foods were in storage for a long time, we had a cushion we could rely on. That’s disappearing now."
> 
> ... “A few weeks or a month ago we were fine,” Debgupta said. “We are fine. The issue really is in the distribution. If we don't address that — the movement of people and goods — we’ll be in quite a lot of trouble.”*


*^^^  FULL STORY AT THE LINK ABOVE ^^^*





road squawker said:


> The rural areas of Tn are pretty much unaffected.
> 
> The (heavily Democratic) metros of Memphis, Nashville, Chattanooga, and Knoxville are heavily infected.



Yes, and people who work in the cities but live in rural areas around them will bring it to the rural areas.   And then it will spread to the small towns that are in remote areas . . . 




m1west said:


> Another thing I think could get people out of Quarantine is put the whole country on Hydroxie Cloraquine ( forgive the spelling ) as is a safe drug shown to help. Last night on the news there was a doctor that stated that people take it for other ailments and those people are not getting sick.


It is only shown to be effective sometimes in some patients.  It's not a cure.  It's a possible treatment for some of the more critical patients.  It also seems to be showing side effects.  Germany discontinued a study because it was causing heart issues (similar to a heart attack) in patients they were treating while doing a study.


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> Food shortages?
> 
> This is NOT being reported, it is being questioned about IF it could happen.  And PPE is the big safety factor in keeping the food supply open.
> 
> https://news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-...tages-says-government-document-223308504.html
> 
> 
> *^^^  FULL STORY AT THE LINK ABOVE ^^^*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, and people who work in the cities but live in rural areas around them will bring it to the rural areas.   And then it will spread to the small towns that are in remote areas . . .
> 
> 
> 
> It is only shown to be effective sometimes in some patients.  It's not a cure.  It's a possible treatment for some of the more critical patients.  It also seems to be showing side effects.  Germany discontinued a study because it was causing heart issues (similar to a heart attack) in patients they were treating while doing a study.



There have been 0 reported covid 19 cases for anyone with Lupis. They take HydroxieCloriquin. It is prescribed as a prevention for Malaria and been around since the 1940's with very minimal side affects.


----------



## pirate_girl

m1west said:


> There have been 0 reported covid 19 cases for anyone with Lupis. They take HydroxieCloriquin. It is prescribed as a prevention for Malaria and been around since the 1940's with very minimal side affects.



I'd want it, if there were no other options.
You see, it's really that simple.
This is how we find treatment and cure, often quite by accident.
Then there is the Intravenous high dosage vitamin c treatment.
Oh no!
That can't be possible.
It's all too easy, this MUST be complicated.


----------



## m1west

pirate_girl said:


> I'd want it, if there were no other options.
> You see, it's really that simple.
> This is how we find treatment and cure, often quite by accident.
> Then there is the Intravenous high dosage vitamin c treatment.
> Oh no!
> That can't be possible.
> It's all too easy, this MUST be complicated.



The Government should offer a controlled test in the hot spots. Ask for 1000 volunteers to take it. After a week or whatever test them and see if they got it but didn't show symptoms. Obviously if all 1000 either didn't get it or were asymptomatic it probably works. Then offer it to people on a voluntary basis where you except the risk and get on with it while the clinical study is being completed. Damn bureaucrats are going to kill all of us.


----------



## EastTexFrank

m1west said:


> It is prescribed as a prevention for Malaria and been around since the 1940's with very minimal side affects.



The side effects are not minimal.  I took it for a long time and it, along with Larium, which is even worse, are the reason I have tinnitus.  Google chloroquine and see the side effects.  It can also absolutely tear up your stomach although again, Larium is much worse.   When I worked in West Africa chloroquine was the drug of choice as a prophylactic against malaria because the side effects were less severe but if it affected you they were far from being minimal.  At that time it was only prescribed in the USA for the treatment of malaria.  

You pays your money and you takes your choice.  I for one would probably take it again if I had to because it wouldn't be for an extended period of time.


----------



## Melensdad

EastTexFrank said:


> *The side effects are not minimal. * I took it for a long time and it, along with Larium, which is even worse, are the reason I have tinnitus.  Google chloroquine and see the side effects.  It can also absolutely tear up your stomach although again, Larium is much worse.   When I worked in West Africa chloroquine was the drug of choice as a prophylactic against malaria because the side effects were less severe but if it affected you they were far from being minimal.  At that time it was only prescribed in the USA for the treatment of malaria.
> 
> You pays your money and you takes your choice.  I for one would probably take it again if I had to because it wouldn't be for an extended period of time.



Yup, there are side effects.  That is why I mentioned that Germany stopped the clinical trials.  It was causing heart attacks.

My RA doctor called me the other day.  He had prescribed me a drug from that family of anti-malarial drugs and I was allergic to it.  He said if I do get Covid19 that I would have to avoid the anti-malarial drug treatments.







m1west said:


> *The Government should offer a controlled test in the hot spots.* Ask for 1000 volunteers to take it. After a week or whatever test them and see if they got it but didn't show symptoms. Obviously if all 1000 either didn't get it or were asymptomatic it probably works. Then offer it to people on a voluntary basis where you except the risk and get on with it while the clinical study is being completed. *Damn bureaucrats are going to kill all of us.*



Essentially that is being done.  Not quite the way you suggest.  Doctors are now, according to the FDA, allowed to freely prescribe it as treatment.

It is used only for the most severe cases.  Those patients who either need or may soon need ventilators.  But they are prescribing it, along with Z-max anti-flu drugs.  The two treatments seem to offer some help in combination.  

It is not used for mild cases, from what I can tell simple Tylenol is the main drug used to treat mild cases.


----------



## tiredretired

I will take that drug in a new york minute before I get sent to a hospital and put on a ventilator.  From what I understand, that is basically a one way ticket. 

The way i look at it, in that situation, what does one have to lose?


----------



## Melensdad

TiredRetired said:


> I will take that drug in a new york minute before I get sent to a hospital and put on a ventilator.  From what I understand, that is basically a one way ticket.
> 
> The way i look at it, in that situation, what does one have to lose?



Actually you'd already be in intensive care when they decide to put you on the drug.

And from what I can tell most of the people who are on ventilators are on them for a couple weeks and actually survive and leave the hospital alive!


----------



## m1west

TiredRetired said:


> I will take that drug in a new york minute before I get sent to a hospital and put on a ventilator.  From what I understand, that is basically a one way ticket.
> 
> The way i look at it, in that situation, what does one have to lose?



Thats what I am saying take the drug and accept there may me side affects or take your chances and roll the dice maybe ok maybe ventilator or death. I will take the pill. Why do people with Lupis take it? Answer= because taking it is worth the risk of side affect opposed to what happens if you don't


----------



## EastTexFrank

m1west said:


> I will take the pill. Why do people with Lupis take it? *Answer= because taking it is worth the risk of side affect opposed to what happens if you don't*



That is exactly the reason I took anti-malarial drugs all those years.  When I talked to my doctor about it he said that most of the side effects can be cured but there is no cure for malaria and it is a killer.  He was right.  They cured my stomach problems for the most part and the muscle pains and strains went away.  Damn this tinnitus though.


----------



## tiredretired

EastTexFrank said:


> That is exactly the reason I took anti-malarial drugs all those years.  When I talked to my doctor about it he said that most of the side effects can be cured but there is no cure for malaria and it is a killer.  He was right.  They cured my stomach problems for the most part and the muscle pains and strains went away. * Damn this tinnitus though.*



I have severe tinnitus as well, but from a different reason.  One year working on the flight deck on a CV cost me my hearing and tinnitus.  I would finish the shift with ear aches.  I had my mother send me a block of bees wax I would stuff in my ears along with, of course, the flight deck ear muffs.

Not much can be done when the environment can peak at 130-150db.  To put into perspective, that is almost as loud as a handful of Democrats squawking about Trump.  :th_lmao:


----------



## m1west

TiredRetired said:


> I have severe tinnitus as well, but from a different reason.  One year working on the flight deck on a CV cost me my hearing and tinnitus.  I would finish the shift with ear aches.  I had my mother send me a block of bees wax I would stuff in my ears along with, of course, the flight deck ear muffs.
> 
> Not much can be done when the environment can peak at 130-150db.  To put into perspective, that is almost as loud as a handful of Democrats squawking about Trump.  :th_lmao:



I too have tinnitus from working in a industrial environment all my  life, No one suggested ear plugs until the late 90's. To me its white noise like the wife complaining about something, not really a problem except while talking on the phone. Background noise makes it hard to understand anything.


----------



## Melensdad

Melensdad said:


> *And for the real math geeks among us*, the number of confirmed cases outside of China has more than tripled over the past week.  If we continue to see a similar exponential growth rate, there will be more than a million confirmed cases outside of China just five weeks from now.  Anyone want to bet on the number of cases that will be reported worldwide by mid-April?  I wouldn't be the farm it will be 1,000,000 but then again I wouldn't bet against it either.  It is clearly possible that we could see a MILLION infected in a matter of 5-6 weeks, despite the fact that some nations are stopping all events over 1000 people, despite the fact that France closed the Lourve Museum, despite the fact that travel restrictions have been imposed, despite the fact that the Catholic Church ordered that no masses be held in Korea until further notice, despite the fact that Japan has closed their schools for a month, despite the fact that some American universities are pulling back their foreign study students and imposing quarantines, despite the fact that airlines are stopping flights to entire nations ...



I posted the above on March 3rd, after doing some simple calculations, figured we could see 1 MILLION cases of Corona/Covid19 by the middle of April.

Here we are in the beginning of April and we are over 1,290,000 cases.

So the bad news is that I was right.

*But the good news is that I was also wrong too* 

Seems as though my math over estimated the number of hospital beds that will be needed, the number of ICU beds that will be needed and the number of respirators that will be needed.  The other good news is that cities like New York (who's mayor should be tried for criminal negligence) and Chicago have converted major exhibition halls into temporary hospitals to try to meet the surge in required beds.  With any luck, some of those beds will remain empty!


----------



## EastTexFrank

TiredRetired said:


> To put into perspective, that is almost as loud as a handful of Democrats squawking about Trump.  :th_lmao:



Hopefully mine never gets that bad.    

I worked on oil rigs around heavy machinery for a significant part of my life so you can never be sure exactly what caused it but I can say that it began during the period I was on anti-malarial drugs.


----------



## pirate_girl




----------



## Bannedjoe

I live in Mohave county. The fifth largest county in the US.
15 cases.
1 dead.


----------



## pirate_girl

Riddle me this: I just read that a Malayan tiger at the Bronx Zoo has tested positive.
It and other big cats suddenly became ill.
It's being traced back to a zoo keeper.


> The 4-year-old Malayan tiger, and six other tigers and lions that have also fallen ill, are believed to have been infected by a zoo employee, the U.S. Department of Agriculture said.


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...yc-s-bronx-zoo-tests-positive-for-coronavirus


----------



## NorthernRedneck

We had 1 case just 3 days ago. We're now up to 13 cases and 1 hospital admission.


----------



## mla2ofus

We got our first case in our county yesterday. Contracted while traveling and confined to their home. 
  As for hearing loss my tinnitus and loss is from working most of 32 yrs on portable rock crushers. Been wearing hearing aids about 5 yrs now.
Mike


----------



## NorthernRedneck

I've got constant tinnitus in my left ear and plain old hearing loss in my right one. Comes from 10 years of working in a plywood mill coupled with a couple of good head impacts.


----------



## Melensdad

So I am hearing that the State of Vermont is telling parents to prepare to home school kids until after Christmas break, with a possible return to classrooms in January of 2021.

Can anyone confirm this?


----------



## m1west

just talked with my sister, she lives in southern Ca. in Laverne. 
It is about 30 miles east of LA. She is telling me that at the Pomona fairgrounds the Military is set up there due to covid19 and they have Tanks. I asked her if she was sure they are Tanks and she confirmed. I am going to ask her to send me some pictures. I have herd the military was going to help but Tanks??


----------



## loboloco

The really stupid thing is that this virus could be easily contained if you could get the doctors to prescribe prophylactic doses of hydroxy chloriquin.


----------



## pirate_girl

m1west said:


> just talked with my sister, she lives in southern Ca. in Laverne.
> It is about 30 miles east of LA. She is telling me that at the Pomona fairgrounds the Military is set up there due to covid19 and they have Tanks. I asked her if she was sure they are Tanks and she confirmed. I am going to ask her to send me some pictures. I have herd the military was going to help but Tanks??



The National Guard?


----------



## m1west

pirate_girl said:


> The National Guard?



Im not sure the national guard has tanks but even if they do what are they doing in the streets?


----------



## mla2ofus

Type in US military at Pomona fairgrounds, California. Yes, there may already be some old tanks there.
Mike


----------



## pirate_girl

Looking at Bloomberg again, looks positive for the states of New York and New Jersey.
Things are starting to decline as far as new cases and deaths.


----------



## tiredretired

Melensdad said:


> So I am hearing that the State of Vermont is telling parents to prepare to home school kids until after Christmas break, with a possible return to classrooms in January of 2021.
> 
> Can anyone confirm this?



I just watched the local news on one of the TV stations out of Burlington, VT and they made no mention of it.  

I will keep my ears peeled in the morning.  This would be a major development.


----------



## Melensdad

TiredRetired said:


> I just watched the local news on one of the TV stations out of Burlington, VT and they made no mention of it.
> 
> I will keep my ears peeled in the morning.  This would be a major development.



Do you know anyone who is a teacher in the state?  They might be a good source for this?  The teachers in my state are very interested!!






pirate_girl said:


> Looking at Bloomberg again, looks positive for the states of New York and New Jersey.
> Things are starting to decline as far as new cases and deaths.



This would be very good news indeed!

There seems to be some signs of hope, but caution that it is too early to tell.  Still we can hope that it's peaking.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52175746

_On Sunday, Governor Andrew Cuomo reported 594 new deaths giving an overall total of 4,159 deaths in New York, the state hit hardest by the coronavirus so far.

He said there were now 122,000 New York residents who had been infected. But he added that nearly 75% of patients who have required hospitalisation had now been discharged.

It's too early to know if New York is currently experiencing its apex - the highest rate of infection that graphics behind Mr Cuomo referred to as "the Battle on the Mountain Top".

He also said it was too early to know if cases would drop off quickly after the apex, or if they would decline slowly - and at a rate that would still overwhelm hospitals.

"The statisticians will not give you a straight answer on anything," he said about the so-called "curve" - the chart that tracks the rate of infections.
"At first it was straight up and straight down, or a total 'V'. Or maybe its up with a plateau and we're somewhere on the plateau. They don't know."_​


----------



## NorthernRedneck

Melensdad said:


> So I am hearing that the State of Vermont is telling parents to prepare to home school kids until after Christmas break, with a possible return to classrooms in January of 2021.
> 
> 
> 
> Can anyone confirm this?


Gawd I hope not. We're starting homeschooling tomorrow. All online. 6 kids. 3 computers. A VERY slow internet connection that often disconnects. Should be  interesting. Not to mention that my wife may have to set up a home office somewhere where she can have privacy in a house of 8. Right now, they were originally slated to go back tomorrow but that got extended to may 6th. My guts are saying see you in September. 

A few days ago the provincial government announced the closure of all public parks and campgrounds. Today they closed all private campgrounds which shuts us down. As soon as the snow is gone I'm going to head out and grab the camper to bring home. Everything else can just stay there for now.


----------



## Bannedjoe

NorthernRedneck said:


> Gawd I hope not. We're starting homeschooling tomorrow. All online. 6 kids. 3 computers. A VERY slow internet connection that often disconnects. Should be  interesting. Not to mention that my wife may have to set up a home office somewhere where she can have privacy in a house of 8. Right now, they were originally slated to go back tomorrow but that got extended to may 6th. My guts are saying see you in September.
> 
> A few days ago the provincial government announced the closure of all public parks and campgrounds. Today they closed all private campgrounds which shuts us down.



Dammit.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

They've also implemented a province wide fire ban to reduce the strain on firefighting resources.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

More on the closure of all the campgrounds both provincial and private. With all the "snowbirds" having to return home a month sooner than anticipated from their winter residences in the states, many who full time it in their rv will be stuck living in a Walmart parking lot until they are allowed to reopen. Not to mention that they will have no running water or sewage as they have to winterize the pipes to prevent them from freezing at night.


----------



## Melensdad

NorthernRedneck said:


> They've also implemented a province wide fire ban to reduce the strain on firefighting resources.



Hmmm... different responses in different areas.  Here the State of Michigan lifted its ban on burning and there has been no word from Indiana but we are actively burning here


----------



## m1west

pirate_girl said:


> Riddle me this: I just read that a Malayan tiger at the Bronx Zoo has tested positive.
> It and other big cats suddenly became ill.
> It's being traced back to a zoo keeper.
> 
> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...yc-s-bronx-zoo-tests-positive-for-coronavirus



So does that mean house cats can get it and spread it around??


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

m1west said:


> So does that mean house cats can get it and spread it around??




There has been some stories indicating this.  Not sure if they are credible though.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

*What the Media Isn't Telling You About the United States' Coronavirus Case Numbers*

https://pjmedia.com/trending/what-t...t-the-united-states-coronavirus-case-numbers/


^^^ Worth reading before watching the MSM.


----------



## EastTexFrank

Over the week-end the confirmed cases in our county jumped from 1 to 3.  Not sure what significance that has but we're still holed up.  

The wife is going to make an early morning grocery run tomorrow.  When she comes home it's like Christmas.   

On a different note, why are they wasting test kits on cats?


----------



## pirate_girl

Ohio Governor Mike DeWine has called upon the Ohio National Guard to assist in the state’s response to COVID-19. Members of the Guard are helping foodbanks distribute food and supplies and helping to organize an assessment of healthcare resources across the state to determine what additional personnel, supplies, and facilities might be needed.

Residents should not panic if they see Ohio National Guard soldiers, airmen, and/or military vehicles in their neighborhoods. For more information on the Guard and its response, visit ong.ohio.gov.


----------



## tiredretired

23 deaths in VT so far and the majority of those are in a health & rehab center and an assisted living center.  

Why do I have the feeling the cure is going to be much worse than the disease.  What toll will we see in destroyed family businesses, destroyed personal finances, foreclosure and bankruptcies.  The state is already noticing an uptick in the amount of suicides in the state. This whole thing has a long way to go before it is all played out.   

I dunno.  I have my marching orders and doing my damndest to carry them out.


----------



## m1west

Just read on AOL for some reason the mortality rate for blacks that get covid 19 are much higher than other races. it is reported in Chicago, Milwalkee and other large cities where Blacks make up around 30% of the population are 80% of the deaths.


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> Just read on AOL for some reason the mortality rate for blacks that get covid 19 are much higher than other races. it is reported in Chicago, Milwalkee and other large cities where Blacks make up around 30% of the population are 80% of the deaths.



Theory is some sub-sets of the population are ignoring warnings and still socializing and then they are not getting to the hospitals until its too late.


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> Theory is some sub-sets of the population are ignoring warnings and still socializing and then they are not getting to the hospitals until its too late.



I think the town I live in qualifies. I haven't been up town for a week, today I made a deposit at the ATM, there is a strip mall with grocery, cvs, autoparts, food etc. Everything was open and the parking lot full and I didn't see many masks or gloves. We only have 3 reported in our county with 0 deaths but WTF.


----------



## pirate_girl

Did any of you see the video of megachurch, looney toon Pastor Kenneth Copeland spitting on the virus and demanding it be gone?
Yeah, that'll work.
He looks possessed.
:th_lmao:


----------



## EastTexFrank

m1west said:


> I think the town I live in qualifies. I haven't been up town for a week, today I made a deposit at the ATM, there is a strip mall with grocery, cvs, autoparts, food etc. Everything was open and the parking lot full and I didn't see many masks or gloves. We only have 3 reported in our county with 0 deaths but WTF.



Not our little town, it's pretty much closed down.  It has a population of just under 5K but most of them are older and they closed the doors fairly early in this thing.  We still only have 3 cases in the County but the 14 New Yorkers who came in to their retreat are still quarantined until the end of this week, I think. 

I haven't been to town in close to 4 weeks now so all my information comes from my wife's bush telegraph.  These old girls keep a close tab on things.  

As for masks and gloves, if you didn't have them before this all started I don't know where you would get them now.  I think they are in short supply unless you make your own.


----------



## mla2ofus

Yeah, ETF, I've told people in our small town(3,000) that sometimes the grape vine exceeds the speed of light!!
Mike


----------



## m1west

EastTexFrank said:


> Not our little town, it's pretty much closed down.  It has a population of just under 5K but most of them are older and they closed the doors fairly early in this thing.  We still only have 3 cases in the County but the 14 New Yorkers who came in to their retreat are still quarantined until the end of this week, I think.
> 
> I haven't been to town in close to 4 weeks now so all my information comes from my wife's bush telegraph.  These old girls keep a close tab on things.
> 
> As for masks and gloves, if you didn't have them before this all started I don't know where you would get them now.  I think they are in short supply unless you make your own.



I think people might be getting complacent about it. Down town was closed up a lot more a few weeks ago. True the gloves but you can make a mask from most anything.


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> I think people might be getting complacent about it. Down town was closed up a lot more a few weeks ago. *True the gloves but you can make a mask from most anything.*



I got lucky, we have a few boxes of gloves and couple boxes of N95 masks from house flipping.

I ordered some cycling masks with N95 filter inserts, they have not arrived yet but I got shipment notification.  The masks were a bit pricy, they are multi-layer, neoprene and fabric but the the filters (_and I ordered extra_) are washable and last approximately a month each with daily use.  

Recently Amazon changed their policy.  If I understand it they no longer ship N95 masks, gloves or even hand sanitizer except to hospitals?

One thing I wish we had more of is hand sanitizer. We only use it when we go out in the car to pick up things.  I have several bottles, but if this is prolonged  for months I will run out of sanitizer.  At this point I'm figuring we have 60 days worth of hand sanitizer, maybe a bit longer.  We don't use much so we don't need much.  Bleach solution in a jar or spray bottle is a viable option.


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> I got lucky, we have a few boxes of gloves and couple boxes of N95 masks from house flipping.
> 
> I ordered some cycling masks with N95 filter inserts, they have not arrived yet but I got shipment notification.  The masks were a bit pricy, they are multi-layer, neoprene and fabric but the the filters (_and I ordered extra_) are washable and last approximately a month each with daily use.
> 
> Recently Amazon changed their policy.  If I understand it they no longer ship N95 masks, gloves or even hand sanitizer except to hospitals?
> 
> One thing I wish we had more of is hand sanitizer. We only use it when we go out in the car to pick up things.  I have several bottles, but if this is prolonged  for months I will run out of sanitizer.  At this point I'm figuring we have 60 days worth of hand sanitizer, maybe a bit longer.  We don't use much so we don't need much.  Bleach solution in a jar or spray bottle is a viable option.



Being a contractor I had masks and gloves, the hand sanitizer seems to last forever, I have one in my truck I kept there for dump trips for about 6 months and I'm still using it now. About a month before the virus came here we stocked up on everything, wife got big bottles of hand sanitizer etc at the dollar store.


----------



## mla2ofus

I did some research yesterday and found Hydrogen peroxide works as well as alcohol to kill coronavirus.
Mike


----------



## pirate_girl

Senator Rand Paul has completely recovered.
Re-tested, found negative.
He now intends to work volunteer to help those patients in his own community.


----------



## tiredretired

I gave away the 5 pack of N95 masks I had to my neighbor who is a nurse.  We have 4 more 5 packs of the regular dust masks.  On top of that, another neighbor who baby sits our dog made some masks for us.  She used a bees wax infused cotton material which is really nice.  Not sure if the bees wax makes them any better, but who knows.  

Thing is, we go hardly anywhere so hardly using our sanitizer or the masks.


----------



## Jim_S RIP

THE VIRUS CAUSING COVID-19 IN HUMANS AND THE SITUATION WITH PETS
By W. Jean Dodds, DVM on March 30, 2020

https://www.hemopet.org/virus-causing-covid-19-humans-and-current-situation-pets/


----------



## pirate_girl

We have our first case here in Henry county.
An older adult male.


----------



## mla2ofus

We just got our first case in our county a few days ago. She is self quarantining at this time. If she hadn't gone to Europe we wouldn't have one now. The big question for me is: how many people was she exposed to from the time of return to finding she has it?? I wear the N95 when out in public now and Linda stays home.
Mike


----------



## pirate_girl

I have no further info on it at this time.
It was bound to happen.
We dodged the bullet for quite a while.
I'm keeping updated.
Unlike some of the social media jackasses who are jumping on this with a whole lot of speculation, I'm not assuming anything, if you know what I mean.


----------



## Bannedjoe

I believe it's quite possible that mother nature tried to do a reset of the planet years ago when she introduced aids.
We screwed up her plans when we pretty much figured out how to tackle it.
She's just trying again.

I predict everyone will soon get tired of being sheltered in place without jobs and such and will just say F it and get back on with life and business, and let the chips fall where they may.


----------



## pirate_girl

I was watching a doctor.
Actually more in the area of being a naturopath/physical therapist/chiropractor.
He's all about drinking Schwepp's tonic water (the quinine- minimal)and taking mega doses of zinc.
While that's something to think about, it's also not a reliable or practical treatment or cure.
But at this time, there is a lot of advice floating around because people get lost in the desperation thinking omg! I need to do something.


----------



## marchplumber

People are moving more and more that I see....as a plumber I'm out and about.....traffic is getting heavier here and we Do have numerous confirmed cases in the tri county area....
STUPID, not ignorant.

Stay safe and healthy

God bless, 
Tony


----------



## bczoom

Bad news in our County. 
There's a nursing home with about 450 residents + 300 staff.  They're now presuming and working under the assumption that all residents and staff now have the virus.


----------



## Jim_S RIP

bczoom said:


> Bad news in our County.
> There's a nursing home with about 450 residents + 300 staff.  They're now presuming and working under the assumption that all residents and staff now have the virus.



I hope its not everyone


----------



## pirate_girl




----------



## pirate_girl

bczoom said:


> Bad news in our County.
> There's a nursing home with about 450 residents + 300 staff.  They're now presuming and working under the assumption that all residents and staff now have the virus.



450???
My God.


----------



## pirate_girl

This isn't the first I've heard about the importance of the deep breathing and keeping the airway open.


> Doctor at Queens Hospital in the UK Advises on Potential Lifesaving Corona Virus Breathing Technique
> A UK hospital doctor, Dr. Sarfaraz Munshi describes a vital breathing technique for corona virus Covid-19 sufferers that could prevent the patients contracting secondary pneumonia which could prove incredibly dangerous to health. Also present and providing guidance is Sue Elliott director of nursing.


Video here.
https://www.chonday.com/40022/docto...-lifesaving-corona-virus-breathing-technique/


----------



## NorthernRedneck

After my accident I had a large amount of fluid on my lungs. They had me doing the deep breathing exercises but I couldn't lay on my stomach due to it being cut open from the ribs to the pelvic area and stapled shut.


----------



## Melensdad

pirate_girl said:


> View attachment 125525



I like the idea of the paper towels in the coffee canister but it won't work.  The towels will dry out because there is nothing over the top of it.  Capillary action.  

Probably better to just pop the lid completely and pull a towel out of the center of the roll.


----------



## pirate_girl

Probably....

Some of my nurse pals and I are going to start sipping the Schwepp's and upping our nutritional supps.
I already take a good one, but am going to add a C, zinc and D combo.


----------



## tiredretired

pirate_girl said:


> Probably....
> 
> Some of my nurse pals and I are going to start sipping the Schwepp's and upping our nutritional supps.
> I already take a good one, but am going to add a C, zinc and D combo.



My wife put us on a Zinc supplement called ZMA about 3 weeks ago.  Vitamin B6, Magnesium and 200% of Zinc each day.  

Works great, I guess, but my complexion has changed to this galvanized metal like look.  Not sure if this is normal or not.  :th_lmao:


----------



## mla2ofus

Well, TR, it's a guarantee you won't get rusty, LOL!!
Mike


----------



## pirate_girl

I don't understand the director of the CDC.
On Monday, he said the numbers are going to be much lower re: deaths.
Prior to that, way before that we were getting very high number predictions.
From the FDA commissioner too.
Is this how it's played?
Start high, then say see what we did there, we worked on getting those numbers lowered by golly!
I don't trust them one bit!
There's been a manipulation in stats from the get-go.
Just my opinion.


----------



## pirate_girl

Our local chain supermarket, Chief.. is now saying any shopping customers must be wearing a mask before entering the store.
The store is going to be watched by reps throughout to make sure shoppers walk in one direction, 6 feet apart, limited time in the store too.
I'm all up for that.


----------



## Bannedjoe

pirate_girl said:


> I don't understand the director of the CDC.
> On Monday, he said the numbers are going to be much lower re: deaths.
> Prior to that, way before that we were getting very high number predictions.
> From the FDA commissioner too.
> Is this how it's played?
> Start high, then say see what we did there, we worked on getting those numbers lowered by golly!
> I don't trust them one bit!
> There's been a manipulation in stats from the get-go.
> Just my opinion.



I don't trust anything or anybody anymore, and haven't for a long time, and I don't even watch the news.

I just find it so surprising that we live in the information age, and so much of it can't be trusted.

Seriously, what's the point?


----------



## EastTexFrank

pirate_girl said:


> I don't understand the director of the CDC.
> On Monday, he said the numbers are going to be much lower re: deaths.
> Prior to that, way before that we were getting very high number predictions.
> From the FDA commissioner too.
> Is this how it's played?
> Start high, then say see what we did there, we worked on getting those numbers lowered by golly!
> I don't trust them one bit!
> There's been a manipulation in stats from the get-go.
> Just my opinion.



I think that your opinion is exactly right.

I may be a born sceptic but I don't take any of these so called "experts" at face value.  The gnome of all knowledge, Dr. Fauci, has been so wrong on a lot of this shit that it's reached the point that I don't know if he is worth listening to or not.  I think that it's probably "NOT".  Anyone who spends his life in the hollowed halls of research probably isn't a reliable source for dealing with real life problems, knowledge perhaps but solutions NO.  That's just my skeptical opinion.  

Mathematical models are fun but, at best, they just give you general trends.  Anyone who is willing to bet their life on one is an idiot.  Now, 5 years from now, when the data has been gathered, refined, massaged and interpolated, they might get close to what actually happened on the ground but that's a little late for use as an analytical tool.  

PG, when I saw that the data they were putting in to their model was coming from China and Iran among other places, the first thing that went through my mind was that this is going to be fucked up.  Okay, I've already said that I'm a sceptic.  

I used to do the same thing in business.  If I said that a particular project was going to cost $20M and I brought it in for $17M, I was a hero.  You couldn't do that too often or it became obvious but on occasion it worked wonderfully.  It's all bullshit.

Jeez, I really am a sceptic, am I not?


----------



## Melensdad

pirate_girl said:


> I don't understand the director of the CDC.
> On Monday, he said the numbers are going to be much lower re: deaths.
> Prior to that, way before that we were getting very high number predictions.
> From the FDA commissioner too.
> Is this how it's played?
> Start high, then say see what we did there, we worked on getting those numbers lowered by golly!
> I don't trust them one bit!
> There's been a manipulation in stats from the get-go.
> Just my opinion.


Clearly manipulation.  All major media sources played the same game.  Obviously the N95 mask directions in February, basically saying only health professionals need those, was a lie.  Even saying that wearing the basics cloth masks was unnecessary was a lie, largely because if people knew those were almost worthless then they would hoard the N95 masks.

So many other lies, all spread by the major media sources.  






pirate_girl said:


> Our local chain supermarket, Chief.. is now saying any shopping customers must be wearing a mask before entering the store.
> The store is going to be watched by reps throughout to make sure shoppers walk in one direction, 6 feet apart, limited time in the store too.
> I'm all up for that.


In Germany they allow 2 people per aisle in the grocery store where my cousin shops.  Masks everywhere.  Lines outside.  Limits of people going inside.  1 comes out, a new customer goes in.  Sneeze shields and marks on the floor to protect cashiers and shoppers.


----------



## pirate_girl

> The gnome of all knowledge, Dr. Fauci, has been so wrong on a lot of this shit that it's reached the point that I don't know if he is worth listening to or not. I think that it's probably "NOT". Anyone who spends his life in the hollowed halls of research probably isn't a reliable source for dealing with real life problems, knowledge perhaps but solutions NO. That's just my skeptical opinion.


----------



## pirate_girl

My oldest son is calling this the _plannedemic_.


----------



## mla2ofus

pirate_girl said:


> My oldest son is calling this the _plannedemic_.



    I've noticed that word appearing here and there. What ETF said about mathematical models reminds me of all the controversy over climate models.
Mike


----------



## tiredretired

Plannedemic, yes that sums it up nicely.

The proof is in the pudding.  Just look at the media "Jihad" to discredit HCQ just because Trump mentioned it.  A cheap, readily available drug comes to light that shows promise to help alleviate or eliminate ones COVID symptoms and immediately the media attacks both the drug and Trump.  The media wants a lot of us to die and does not want Trump to get any credit for alleviating people's suffering.  The media and the leftists want us to die and want this country to die.  There can be no doubt about that.

NBC, Universal and Comcast, which is run by communist leftists,  have a huge financial stake in China. Look it up. They side with China against the American people for money. 

*Read my sig line.  It says it all.*


----------



## EastTexFrank

TiredRetired said:


> Just look at the media "Jihad" to discredit HCQ just because Trump mentioned it.  A cheap, readily available drug comes to light that shows promise to help alleviate or eliminate ones COVID symptoms and immediately the media attacks both the drug and Trump.  The media wants a lot of us to die and does not want Trump to get any credit for alleviating people's suffering.  The media and the leftists want us to die and want this country to die.  There can be no doubt about that.
> 
> NBC, Universal and Comcast, which is run by communist leftists,  have a huge financial stake in China. Look it up. They side with China against the American people for money.



TR, we disagree on a lot of stuff but we are on the same page on this one.

I've said a lot on here about HCQ and it's side effects, some of which can be ugly but the rabid media frenzy against it is shocking.  They say that it is unproven, the sample size was too small to mean anything, the evidence in anecdotal.  Well, let me put it like this.  It is a well proven and approved drug, just not for this purpose.  Most of the side effects come on with extended use which would not be the case here.  If you have a hundred people in your test study and one shows improvement by it's use, isn't that a good thing?  Isn't helping one person survive a lot better than sitting around doing nothing, with your thumb up your butt.  I don't understand the opposition to using it.  

Your advice to follow the money is also correct.  I read an article yesterday about Universal Studios building a billion dollar theme park in China in partnership with the Chinese Government.  They can't criticize the Chinese Government through their media outlets or the Chinese might shut down the building of the park.  That's a lot of money to lose.


----------



## Melensdad

EastTexFrank said:


> ... HCQ ...  They say that it is unproven, the sample size was too small to mean anything, the evidence in anecdotal...



All of that is true.

But it shows promise.  A large study should have already been started because there is plenty of anecdotal evidence to show its promise.  We need to know a lot more.  Clearly it appears to work for many. 

We know that 80% of the people who get Covid require little more than Tylenol.
We know that roughly 16% need medical help, and now its looking like 8% need hospitalization.

But what we don't know is how many of the 80% got HCQ and actually never needed it.  

We also don't know of the roughly 8% who need hospitalization have gotten it and recovered, probably because of it.  

We need to figure out if this is a cure!


----------



## tiredretired

EastTexFrank said:


> TR, we disagree on a lot of stuff but we are on the same page on this one.
> 
> I've said a lot on here about HCQ and it's side effects, some of which can be ugly but the rabid media frenzy against it is shocking.  They say that it is unproven, the sample size was too small to mean anything, the evidence in anecdotal.  Well, let me put it like this.  It is a well proven and approved drug, just not for this purpose.  Most of the side effects come on with extended use which would not be the case here.  If you have a hundred people in your test study and one shows improvement by it's use, isn't that a good thing?  Isn't helping one person survive a lot better than sitting around doing nothing, with your thumb up your butt.  I don't understand the opposition to using it.
> 
> Your advice to follow the money is also correct.  I read an article yesterday about Universal Studios building a billion dollar theme park in China in partnership with the Chinese Government.  They can't criticize the Chinese Government through their media outlets or the Chinese might shut down the building of the park.  That's a lot of money to lose.



I started wondering why NBC/Universal/Comca$t was acting like a special kind of stupid.  Different than CNN, but still stupid.  Then I came across that theme park you mentioned and the final pieces of the puzzle started to fall into place.  I mentioned it to my wife and she said yes, Trump mentioned it yesterday in his presser.  Aha, so now Donald has a hold of it and talking about it.  Given his penchant for hanging on to something like a dog with a rat by the neck, it will get mentioned over and over.  

Yup, many folks over the years have disagreed with old TR.  Many times they were proven right, many times not.  At any rate, it is what makes life so grand, else we all dress the same and drive the same vehicles and all vote the same.

Not much fun in that now is there?


----------



## bczoom

Pennsylvania has joined Kansas and Virginia in closing all K-12 schools for the remainder of the school year.  My son who's a senior is jubilant.  _I did tell him he'll be dumb as a box of rocks when he starts at Penn State in the fall.  He said "I know but so will everyone else."_


----------



## tiredretired

pirate_girl said:


> I don't understand the director of the CDC.
> On Monday, he said the numbers are going to be much lower re: deaths.
> Prior to that, way before that we were getting very high number predictions.
> From the FDA commissioner too.
> Is this how it's played?
> Start high, then say see what we did there, we worked on getting those numbers lowered by golly!
> I don't trust them one bit!
> There's been a manipulation in stats from the get-go.
> Just my opinion.





pirate_girl said:


> Our local chain supermarket, Chief.. is now saying any shopping customers must be wearing a mask before entering the store.
> The store is going to be watched by reps throughout to make sure shoppers walk in one direction, 6 feet apart, limited time in the store too.
> I'm all up for that.



So in essence these times are desperate enough to inflict all these draconian measures upon the American people, costing them their jobs, businesses, depleted their retirement accounts, farmers are plowing fruit and vegetables into the ground because their market has been destroyed, yet the situation is not critical enough to give folks HCQ, a drug that has been around since 1955.  The agenda is ruling the day.


----------



## mla2ofus

If the "experts" and the MSM have their way our country as we know it will be more. Hate to be so pessimistic but at this point in time it's the way I see it.
Mike


----------



## tiredretired

mla2ofus said:


> If the "experts" and the MSM have their way our country as we know it will be more. Hate to be so pessimistic but at this point in time it's the way I see it.
> Mike



You're not being pessimistic.  You are being a realist.  This whole thing is agenda driven.  They knew from the beginning the toll would not be as bad as they were conveying.  The models were flawed from the beginning and they know it.

Now the "experts" say the models are only as good as the info being put into them.  Well, hell, the experts were the ones feeding the bullshit into them from the beginning.  Now they come up with some half baked phony excuse why they are wrong.

Mark my words well.  If the Dems win in November all this goes away.  If Trump wins, which is likely, the misery continues throughout the winter into next year.  This is the agenda.


----------



## pixie

Here is a website with a moving chart showing average daily causes of death in the US vs Covid 19
https://public.flourish.studio/visu...amStgNesvBMl3RmOW-g6kd-ulxFQYWdf75WUH5D19rvqY


----------



## Melensdad

pixie said:


> Here is a website with a moving chart showing average daily causes of death in the US vs Covid 19
> https://public.flourish.studio/visu...amStgNesvBMl3RmOW-g6kd-ulxFQYWdf75WUH5D19rvqY


----------



## pixie

So I got thinking about that graph. The "average" Covid number at the end is one of the higher death toll days. It's not really an average like the other numbers are. Won't be able to have an "average" until it's over or at least been a while so the numbers could be broken into months or weeks or something that makes the Covid numbers more related to the other numbers.

I read that the other, older numbers come from "our world in data". which if I remember is a CIA site.


----------



## Melensdad

So onto some grim news.  This has been mentioned but now seems to be getting some scientific study by the South Korean medical system.  We have mostly heard about reinfection in China, but we know that China has zero credibility when it comes to reporting disease data.  South Korea, on the other hand, has been very transparent about their Covid situation and their medical system has shared information freely with other developed nations so we will get good data.

The question is, are these REINFECTIONS of people who fully recovered or are they RELAPSES of people who have not fully recovered?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...QVYfBgHINY9o0TIb_2yfAqXtM4#Echobox=1586552724



> *Recovered coronavirus patients test positive again in blow to immunity hopes*
> South Korean officials said the virus may have been 'reactivated', rather than the patients being re-infected
> 
> By Rozina Sabur 10 April 2020 • 6:30pm
> 
> South Korea reported on Friday that 91 recovered coronavirus patients have tested positive for the disease again, raising questions over health experts' understanding of the pandemic.
> 
> *The prospect of people being re-infected with the virus is of international concern*, as many countries are hoping that infected populations will develop sufficient immunity to prevent a resurgence of the pandemic.
> 
> The reports have also prompted fears the virus may remain active in patients for much longer than was previously thought.
> 
> Korean health officials reported Friday that 91 patients thought to have been cleared of the virus had tested positive again, up from 51 people on Monday.
> 
> The Korea Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (KCDC) announced it had sent a team to the city of Daegu, the worst hit area, to investigate why patients there were testing positive again.
> 
> South Korea's early and widespread testing was held up as an example for the rest of the world.  Some of the patients testing positive again showed no symptoms, while others were suffering from fevers and respiratory issues, according to the Financial Times.
> 
> *South Korean health officials said it remains unclear what is behind the trend*, with the preliminary findings from the investigation in Daegu not expected to be released until next week.
> 
> *However the KCDC's director, Jeong Eun-kyeong, raised the possibility that the virus may have been “reactivated” in people, rather than the patients being re-infected.*
> 
> *False test results could also be at fault*, other experts said, or remnants of the virus could still be in patients’ systems without being infectious or posing a risk of danger to the host or others.
> 
> “*There are different interpretations and many variables*,” said Jung Ki-suck, professor of pulmonary medicine at Hallym University Sacred Heart Hospital.
> 
> “The government needs to come up with responses for each of these variables”.
> 
> South Korea had previously been hailed as a success story after its swift implementation of a mass-scale testing regime halted the spread of the virus and led to a far lower fatality rate than the global average.
> 
> The country had one of the worst outbreaks outside China in the early stages of the coronavirus spread, but the country has brought the situation under control over the past two months by a combination of measures including transparent reporting, mass-testing, social distancing and extensive contact tracing.
> 
> On Friday the country reported 27 new cases, its lowest figure since daily cases peaked at more than 900 in late February, according to the KCDC. The death toll rose by seven to 211, it said.
> 
> Nearly 7,000 South Koreans have been reported as recovered from Covid-19, the disease caused by the new coronavirus.
> 
> The city of Daegu, which accounts for more than half of all South Korea's total infections, reported zero new cases for the first time since late February.
> 
> However the new reports of recovered patients testing positive once more has sparked fears of a fresh outbreak.
> *
> “We say that a patient has fully recovered when he or she tests negative twice within 24 hours. But the fact that some of them tested positive again in a short period means that the virus remains longer than we thought,”* Son Young-rae, a spokesman for the health and welfare ministry, told the Financial Times.
> 
> “The number will only increase, 91 is just the beginning now,” said Kim Woo-joo, professor of infectious diseases at Korea University Guro Hospital.
> 
> *Mr Kim also said patients had likely “relapsed” rather than been re-infected.*


----------



## pirate_girl

This from 
https://www.powerlineblog.com/


----------



## jimbo

bczoom said:


> Pennsylvania has joined Kansas and Virginia in closing all K-12 schools for the remainder of the school year.  My son who's a senior is jubilant.  _I did tell him he'll be dumb as a box of rocks when he starts at Penn State in the fall.  He said "I know but so will everyone else."_



My daughter, who teaches high school in Va, tells me that out of her assigned home school class of 50, only 6 are participating.  

Sadly, come next September, these six will be so far ahead of the remainder that they will need to be dumbed down  to keep the class somewhat level, and all will be graded as if they had been in school for the past fee months.


----------



## Melensdad

jimbo said:


> My daughter, who teaches high school in Va, tells me that out of her assigned home school class of 50, only 6 are participating.
> 
> Sadly, come next September, these six will be so far ahead of the remainder that they will need to be dumbed down  to keep the class somewhat level, and all will be graded as if they had been in school for the past fee months.



As a former teacher my wife has been wondering how this would all work.

Lowell's school system has an extensive e-Learning system, which has been established for quite a few years. It is used on 'snow days' during the year and the kids and teachers are used to the system.  It is a very rural district, the 2nd largest geographic district in the State of Indiana.  Out of necessity it adopted e-Learning about a half dozen years ago to deal with 1 and 2 day snow events that drift the rural roads closed.

The next town to our north is Cedar Lake, they had no e-Learning system in place at all.  They have a much smaller geographic district size, with most of their students living in town or adjacent subdivisions, rather than out on farms.  With no e-Learning system in place I really wonder how much student participation there would be.

Our niece, a teacher in Houston, TX, put her classes on YouTube and held a "live" class using ZOOM.  Apparently the live class was chaos.  But then again she teaches 3rd graders and all the kids wanted to talk at the same time.


----------



## bczoom

My son said he's getting a few assignments but those have tapered off to nothing in the last week or so.  I "think" the teachers have been told to use the grades the student had before this started as their final grade.

He's been accepted to Penn State for the fall.  We've received nothing from them changing the acceptance.  Not sure how the college is going to do their acceptance testing (e.g. ACT exam).  Thankfully my son completed all that but some students didn't.


----------



## Melensdad

bczoom said:


> My son said he's getting a few assignments but those have tapered off to nothing in the last week or so.  I "think" the teachers have been told to use the grades the student had before this started as their final grade.
> 
> He's been accepted to Penn State for the fall.  We've received nothing from them changing the acceptance.  Not sure how the college is going to do their acceptance testing (e.g. ACT exam).  Thankfully my son completed all that but some students didn't.



From what I can tell from being in contact with several schools, any kid who was accepted will remain accepted and the universities will ignore the last semester unless there is some gross change.  I do know students who (in prior years) totally slacked off their final semester and lost scholarships.  My guess is, based on current conversations with high school teachers, is that the grades the kid got historically will be awarded for the final semester UNLESS the kid does something totally out of character.  So basically he can sort of coast through doing some level of work and his GPA will continue.

Mid-March was pretty much the final date for most major universities to send out final decisions on acceptance.  Some universities have longer periods but I think 90% of them send out their final decisions in mid-March.  If a kid didn't get stuff done before this all started he is probably too late to get into any of the major universities for the fall.


----------



## bczoom

We stayed on him hard to get things done.  It was the end of December when he got accepted.  I remember as it was just a few days after my daughter finished her degree at Penn State.  At least she got the full ceremony.  For graduates this spring, they're not getting an in-person graduation.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

Our kids have been doing homeschooling for a week now. They use Google classroom where the teacher posts assignments and when they are due. The kids log on and get their work then work on it. 

The youngest ones do an hour a day. The girls aged 12 and 13 are doing 2 hours each day. The oldest boys in high school are doing 3 hours a day. This is all following provincial guidelines. 

On another coronavirus note, last week the province banned all provincial campgrounds followed by closing all recreational facilities including public boat launches which means no boating until this is done. Then they added private campgrounds to that list. Ok, so I can still haul the camper out to the woods and camp. WRONG!  We all woke up this morning to further restrictions including all forms of camping anywhere in the province. 

I had planned on a canoe trip this summer. If this drags on, that will be out.


----------



## Melensdad

NorthernRedneck said:


> Our kids have been doing homeschooling for a week now. They use Google classroom where the teacher posts assignments and when they are due. The kids log on and get their work then work on it.
> 
> The youngest ones do an hour a day. The girls aged 12 and 13 are doing 2 hours each day. The oldest boys in high school are doing 3 hours a day. This is all following provincial guidelines.
> 
> ...


Our local Lowell school system uses Google MEET to hold on-line classroom sessions that are scheduled so all (?) the students are supposed to log on and the teacher can hold a virtual classroom they see the students, the other students also see everyone.  The teacher controls the MUTE so the teacher can allow one student to give a presentation, then allow others to respond, etc.  

They also use Google Classroom for giving out assignments, etc.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

They are starting to route people through the grocery store with lane arrows here.  I'm totally going to screw that up ... uhhh ... accidentally.

I will say that based on my outings in the last few days that most people in this area are "done" with the social distancing.  Traffic is up and parking lots are busy.

I wonder how much longer the government will keep trying to assert it's control over our liberties.  I feel that general passive resistance will increase soon.  It's the same BS as the "security theater" at the airport.

Personally, I'm done with the "caremongering" - I'm socially distant as it is.  I avoid being close to other people and have good manners and hygiene.  Which in my opinion goes a lot farther when compared to some of the nasty people I've seen shuffling around with dirty old bandanas over their face.

I had to go to Walmart the other day.  People in masks and gloves hugging each other as a greeting - wtf?

The government can put all this bs in place but there is so much stupid in the world you can't control it.


----------



## Bamby

There are some Articles posted on the web that are in this nature:





> Early Antibody Testing In Chicago: 30-50% Of Those Tested For COVID-19 Already Have Antibodies, Report Says



Makes one wonder just how long this virus has actually been around? And in making a crisis surrounding the virus really a smoke screen to cover or hide their real purpose for the measure.


----------



## mla2ofus

PB & Bamby, I'm beginning to think the same way as you. 
Mike


----------



## pirate_girl

Bamby said:


> There are some Articles posted on the web that are in this nature:
> 
> Makes one wonder just how long this virus has actually been around? And in making a crisis surrounding the virus really a smoke screen to cover or hide their real purpose for the measure.



Yup!


----------



## Melensdad

FWIW, the Chicago City Wire is not a reliable source.  At one point it was allegedly linked to the Russian propaganda machine.  I don't know if that is true.  But I don't believe anything from that website that is not confirmed by 2 other sources that don't just source each other.

I don't believe that any of the Chicago drive thru testing sites are even testing for anti-bodies at this point.  Antibody testing is a separate test.


----------



## Bamby

Melensdad said:


> FWIW, the Chicago City Wire is not a reliable source.  At one point it was allegedly linked to the Russian propaganda machine.  I don't know if that is true.  But I don't believe anything from that website that is not confirmed by 2 other sources that don't just source each other.
> 
> I don't believe that any of the Chicago drive thru testing sites are even testing for anti-bodies at this point.  Antibody testing is a separate test.



I can't actually say I believe the source either, but it is just one example of several others throughout the web stating more or less the same thing. I do know I don't have any more trust in the American Propaganda Networks than the one posted above either. They only report and post information that can be used by the liberals to promote their agenda.

I see it as to where we're at a crossroads in this country. The liberals have already been allowed to get their way to the point that they've fractured the foundation upon this country once stood.

Back in my time in school communism was the enemy of the people and our nation as a whole stood against communism. The problem is now the media, press, and all other forms of communication are the voice of liberalism. Which by the way represents all the evils that was then credited to communistic nations.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Bamby said:


> There are some Articles posted on the web that are in this nature:
> 
> Makes one wonder just how long this virus has actually been around? And in making a crisis surrounding the virus really a smoke screen to cover or hide their real purpose for the measure.




There are multiple strains and it's been around for a while:

Iceland’s testing suggests 50% of COVID-19 cases are asymptomatic:
https://www.zmescience.com/medicine/iceland-testing-covid-19-0523/


About one-fourth of results come back positive at new Hayward coronavirus testing center:

https://www.sfgate.com/news/bayarea...-Of-Covid-19-Results-Positive-At-15159338.php


I'm going to bet that the impact depends upon the strain you catch and whether or not your body generates anti-bodies that are effective against the other strains.

Seems like the stuff on the west coast may not be as bad as the stuff on the east coast.  But it also depends if you are "medically fragile" (old or unhealthy).


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

The Dark Truth About Fauci and Birx, Bill Gates And Globalist Elites:
https://nationalfile.com/president-...fauci-has-a-100-million-conflict-of-interest/


Too be honest, I think Fauci is just a pawn.  He likes his fame and status but he is also influenced by the people who allow him that privilege.  I certainly wouldn't take anything he says as scientifically un-biased.


----------



## EastTexFrank

PBinWA said:


> Too be honest, I think Fauci is just a pawn.  He likes his fame and status but he is also influenced by the people who allow him that privilege.  I certainly wouldn't take anything he says as scientifically un-biased.



I think that you're exactly right.  I've said before on this thread that the gnome of all knowledge has been wrong as often as he's been right during this thing.

He also said something last week that I thought was extremely revealing.  He said, " *WE* haven't decided when *WE* are likely to start lifting the restrictions".  Who the hell is *"WE"* Dr. Fauci?  It's certainly not *YOU*.  He's making the most of his time in front of the camera and loving every minute of it.  That alone can cloud a person's judgement.  The restrictions will be lifted when the President or the Governors decide or when "We, the people" decide that we've been shut up long enough and want to get on with our lives.  

I heard one so called expert say last week that the lockdown needs to stay in place for approximately 18 months as, if they it is removed, there will be a resurgence in infections and possibly a second wave of the virus starting in the fall.  Now, I don't care how smart he is, or thinks he is, he's a freekin' idiot.  If you lockdown this country of 18 months you won't have a country at the end of it.  Jeez. 

I'm 73-years old and the road behind me is a lot longer than the road in front of me.  I'm going along with this isolation for the moment, and will continue todo so, but I don't intend to spend the last years of my life locked up indefinitely in my house or living in some media induced terror scenario that I'm not even sure is right.


----------



## tiredretired

Good news for us here.  Our local hospital announced yesterday that they will be administering HCQ if your doctor calls for it.  Apparently they have a good supply and plan on using it to save lives.

If I catch this friggin' thing they can start shooting me up ASAP.  

At least our RHINO governor had enough brains not to outlaw it like some of those idiot Democrat governors.


----------



## tiredretired

Bad News, IMHO. 

According to one paper the virus might not just cause pneumonia, it may enter the brain through the olfactory bulb and damage neurons that control breathing.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/...ological-implications-covid-19-raise-concerns

Once inside the brain, the virus resides almost exclusively inside neurons rather than in other types of brain cells (glia), suggesting a trans-neuronal mode of infection rather than invasion of the brain from system-wide infection and entry through the blood-brain barrier, which can also happen.

The reason this is hard to find is...

by the time a patient dies and an autopsy is performed, the path the virus took to enter the brain is obscured by the widespread infection throughout the body.

*It is almost as if it was designed to cover its tracks.*


----------



## m1west

TiredRetired said:


> Bad News, IMHO.
> 
> According to one paper the virus might not just cause pneumonia, it may enter the brain through the olfactory bulb and damage neurons that control breathing.
> 
> https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/...ological-implications-covid-19-raise-concerns
> 
> Once inside the brain, the virus resides almost exclusively inside neurons rather than in other types of brain cells (glia), suggesting a trans-neuronal mode of infection rather than invasion of the brain from system-wide infection and entry through the blood-brain barrier, which can also happen.
> 
> The reason this is hard to find is...
> 
> by the time a patient dies and an autopsy is performed, the path the virus took to enter the brain is obscured by the widespread infection throughout the body.
> 
> *It is almost as if it was designed to cover its tracks.*



I also read a couple reports suggesting it ever really goes away like Hep-C or Herpes but didnt go into details. So what does this mean going forward? It comes back and makes you sick again or no symptoms and can be spread? plus the brain damage. None too good I'm sure.


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> I also read a couple reports suggesting it ever really goes away like Hep-C or Herpes but didnt go into details. *So what does this mean going forward? It comes back and makes you sick again or no symptoms and can be spread? *plus the brain damage. None too good I'm sure.



There are multiple reports saying that *people who have been cured can be reinfected. *

If that is true then the concept of* "herd immunity"* is invalid.  

However there is a theory, coming out of South Korea, _which has a very modern medical system and shares its data_, that *people are not getting reinfected at all, rather they are relapsing.*  The difference is monumental.  If a person relapses it means the person was never cured in the first place, but rather that the disease was undetected but still in their system.  This means some of the tests are not sensitive enough, and that the disease can exist inside the body at low levels and then come back.

There are now ongoing studies looking into relapsing vs reinfection.  We need to pray for this to be a problem with relapsing.  It would be much worse for humankind if this is a problem with reinfection because we really need some level of herd immunity if we are going to return to some levels of normalcy before a vaccine (_12 to 18 months away_) is developed.


----------



## tiredretired

The thing that has bugged me since this all started is why some people get hit hard and others not so much.  I get the age and underlying conditions thing but when you hear about a 40 year old who dies and a 104 year old WW2 vet is cured, it sure sounds strange and like there is more to the story than we are hearing.  

There is the multiple strains theory, now there is the relapse theory.  

One thing for sure.  The government is NOT telling us the truth about all this and I am talking about OUR government, not the ChiComs.  

As for the ChiComs, this is sure looking more and more like an engineering product instead of someone eating bat stew.  JMHO.


----------



## m1west

TiredRetired said:


> The thing that has bugged me since this all started is why some people get hit hard and others not so much.  I get the age and underlying conditions thing but when you hear about a 40 year old who dies and a 104 year old WW2 vet is cured, it sure sounds strange and like there is more to the story than we are hearing.
> 
> There is the multiple strains theory, now there is the relapse theory.
> 
> One thing for sure.  The government is NOT telling us the truth about all this and I am talking about OUR government, not the ChiComs.
> 
> As for the ChiComs, this is sure looking more and more like an engineering product instead of someone eating bat stew.  JMHO.



I read a report from a viral scientist from Singapore that stated the virus has 4 aids components to it that made it transmit from animal to human then human to human. He said it is possible in nature but would be like getting struck by lightening 4 times. Not very likely. I learned a long time ago actions speak louder than words and the actions of China say they did something and are now trying to cover it up. What I have not made my mind up yet on is was it an act of war or incompetence.


----------



## tiredretired

m1west said:


> I read a report from a viral scientist from Singapore that stated the virus has 4 aids components to it that made it transmit from animal to human then human to human. He said it is possible in nature but would be like getting struck by lightening 4 times. Not very likely. I learned a long time ago actions speak louder than words and the actions of China say they did something and are now trying to cover it up. What I have not made my mind up yet on is *was it an act of war or incompetence.*



IMHO, both.  They were developing this, obviously.  My guess, is it got out sooner than they had planned.


----------



## FrancSevin

I'd like to add something new to the mix. I haven't heard much about this but, has anyone notice that countries like Ethiopia and India have lower infection rates and lower death rates?

India has 1.3 BILLION souls with only 8,100 cases with 288 dead.
Ethiopia has 69 cases with only 3 dead being reported.

Both of these nations have friendly trade/commerce ties with China.  So why do they not have high infection rates? Is it possible that since both nation's have populations which take Hydro cloraquine prophylactically for Malaria they have a built in "herd" immunity?


----------



## Melensdad

FrancSevin said:


> I'd like to add something new to the mix. I haven't heard much about this but, has anyone notice that countries like Ethiopia and India have lower infection rates and lower death rates?
> 
> India has 1.3 BILLION souls with only 8,100 cases with 288 dead.
> Ethiopia has 69 cases with only 3 dead being reported.


Both of the nations are suffering.  Neither has testing capabilities.  No testing = no confirmed cases.  This is one of the problems with the reporting.  

These nations, as well as reports from all around Africa, the middle east and India/SE Asia have been reported upon by some of the medical reports on a regular basis.  They just don't make the headlines in the USA.  If you are interested, you can view the videoblog from Dr John Campbell when he gives his daily reports, he discusses them frequently.  Yesterday he also had a special interview with a doctor in Bagdahd and also discussed Iran, a nation that has covered up its disease.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

FrancSevin said:


> I'd like to add something new to the mix. I haven't heard much about this but, has anyone notice that countries like Ethiopia and India have lower infection rates and lower death rates?
> 
> India has 1.3 BILLION souls with only 8,100 cases with 288 dead.
> Ethiopia has 69 cases with only 3 dead being reported.
> 
> Both of these nations have friendly trade/commerce ties with China.  So why do they not have high infection rates? Is it possible that since both nation's have populations which take Hydro cloraquine prophylactically for Malaria they have a built in "herd" immunity?




I would add that both those nations have younger populations.  The people that are most at risk of dying from this virus have probably already died from something else.


----------



## Doc

If true there is a lesson in this ....


----------



## EastTexFrank

FrancSevin said:


> So why do they not have high infection rates? Is it possible that since both nation's have populations which take Hydro cloraquine prophylactically for Malaria they have a built in "herd" immunity?



Some people in those countries may have access to Chloroquine but I think that the vast majority, nearly everybody else, does not.   The populace of both countries is essentially dirt poor and can't afford to be spending money on drugs.  It's better to buy food.  

I think that Bob's answer is closer to the truth, no testing means no cases.  There may be some kind of "herd immunity" because, God only knows, there are all kinds of germs, bacteria, viruses and disease circulating in those countries.


----------



## tiredretired

EastTexFrank said:


> I'm 73-years old and the road behind me is a lot longer than the road in front of me.  I'm going along with this isolation for the moment, and will continue todo so, but I don't intend to spend the last years of my life locked up indefinitely in my house or living in some media induced terror scenario that I'm not even sure is right.



Yep, so right!!

Liquor and Marijuana stores are allowed to stay open but grocery stores have to tape off the greeting card isle. One week it's don't wear a non-medical mask (it's ineffective) and the next week Mayors are fining people for NOT wearing a non-medical mask. 

Dr Fauxci proving more everyday that he has always been a Hillary boot licker and part of the deep state.  He is being paid good money to work hard and be an advisor to President Trump, not taking the time to appear on CNN and bash the POTUS.  We do not need that bullshit right now from that little fucking leprechaun.  

You know the guys an obvious liar. He can't even keep his bull shit stories straight.  On January 21st he stated _*that while we should “take it seriously,” the virus was “not a major threat to the people of the United States, and this is not something that the citizens of the United States right now should be worried about.”*_

Now he has the unmitigated balls to go on TV and put all the blame on Trump, with no mention whatsoever the fact that the DumpsterCrats at this time were all consumed by the impeachment and the WHO was telling us all this disease was NOT CONTAGIOUS.  My God, I must be living in some fucking bizarro dream world if this guy is the best we got.


----------



## FrancSevin

Sorry guys. I don't buy it.  India/Ethiopia both have a poor population and perhaps no serious testing, but, they have a high percentage of people taking malaria meds prophylactically.  

How common is that practice here in the USA?


----------



## pirate_girl

Some rational perspectives on COVID-19.
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/author/john


> This year’s coronavirus outbreak is clearly unprecedented in amount of attention received. Media have capitalized on curiosity, uncertainty and horror. A Google search with “coronavirus” yielded 3 550 000 000 results on March 3 and 9 440 000 000 results on March 14. Conversely, “influenza” attracted 30‐ to 60‐fold less attention although this season it has caused so far more deaths globally than coronavirus.
> 
> Different coronaviruses actually infect millions of people every year, and they are common especially in the elderly and in hospitalized patients with respiratory illness in the winter. A serological analysis1 of CoV 229E and OC43 in 4 adult populations under surveillance for acute respiratory illness during the winters of 1999‐2003 (healthy young adults, healthy elderly adults, high‐risk adults with underlying cardiopulmonary disease and a hospitalized group) showed annual infection rates ranging from 2.8% to 26% in prospective cohorts, and prevalence of 3.3%‐11.1% in the hospitalized cohort. Case fatality of 8% has been described in outbreaks among nursing home elderly. Leaving the well‐known and highly lethal SARS and MERS coronaviruses aside, other coronaviruses probably have infected millions of people and have killed thousands. However, it is only this year that every single case and every single death gets red alert broadcasting in the news.


----------



## mla2ofus

And with all the varied diseases, viruses, etc. in those countries I imagine their natural immune symptoms are a lot stronger.
Mike


----------



## tiredretired

Let's get back to work America!!  Oh, wait a minute, I don't work. Well, you guys, get back to work, now!!  :th_lmao:


----------



## FrancSevin

TiredRetired said:


> Let's get back to work America!! Oh, wait a minute, I don't work. Well, you guys, get back to work, now!! :th_lmao:


I've been calling for that some two weeks now.
But then I'm supposed to be, at 73 years old, retired. 
Somebody please tell the boss!!!

Actually whilst I myself quarantined for the last two weeks, my son basically took over my job. He did so well we turned the reins over to him today. At which point he talked to the boss and basically got me fired.

Tomorrow is officially my last day. Unless, and until, he gets in over his head.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

They've just announced that the emergency order in Ontario will be extended to the end of may to play it safe even though the numbers of cases is lower than originally thought.


----------



## mla2ofus

Franc, tell  your son that's the kind of job to get. The previous boss will pull him out of the flames if needed which if he's anything like his Dad that won't be necessary.
Mike


----------



## EastTexFrank

FrancSevin said:


> Sorry guys. I don't buy it.  India/Ethiopia both have a poor population and perhaps no serious testing, but, they have a high percentage of people taking malaria meds prophylactically.



You're going to have to come up with some figures to back that up.  I worked in West Africa and Equatorial Guinea and I can tell you for a fact that is wrong.  None of the locals took prophylactic drugs.  None.  Now, if you have some figures for India and Ethiopia I would like to see them.


----------



## pirate_girl

I'm listening to a local radio station.
They've given the stats for the tri-state area.
Supposedly Indiana has peaked.
I think many states reached the peak a long time ago.


----------



## tiredretired

FrancSevin said:


> I've been calling for that some two weeks now.
> But then I'm supposed to be, at 73 years old, retired.
> Somebody please tell the boss!!!
> 
> Actually whilst I myself quarantined for the last two weeks, my son basically took over my job. He did so well we turned the reins over to him today. At which point he talked to the boss and basically got me fired.
> 
> Tomorrow is officially my last day. Unless, and until, he gets in over his head.



Franc, what you need to do is tell the CEO aka your wife that Lincoln freed the slaves 155 years ago.  :th_lmao::th_lmao:


----------



## FrancSevin

EastTexFrank said:


> You're going to have to come up with some figures to back that up. I worked in West Africa and Equatorial Guinea and I can tell you for a fact that is wrong. None of the locals took prophylactic drugs. None. Now, if you have some figures for India and Ethiopia I would like to see them.



If I have time today, I'll try to drill down on the facts. But to suggest chloroquine is not in general use is ridiculous. My good friend, who runs a chain of liquor stores here, is from Bombay and he says it is consumed there like aspirin.

Malaria drugs ( chloroquine ) is sold over the counter in many of the tropics. Brazil for instance. It's consumed like aspirin. That, sir, is a fact. Yet here in the USA we must get a script from the doctor. 

Whilst it is not approved as a treatment therapy by the FDA, it still seems to work improving outcomes for COVID patients. 

So why the mocking and panic fear cries from the anti Trump left?

My points are that the drug is relatively safe to use in the general population. And in nations where that is so, the COVID-19 numbers_ are_ being reported. Why does anyone so easily assume that India's numbers are less accurate than in Italy where in if you die of heart failure, but were infected with COVID-19, your demise is reported as a COVID-19 death? 

As for me, if I could buy it OTC, I would take it as a prophylactical measure. There is enough casual/anecdotal evidence to prove it's value. When I see my doctor next month, I will ask him to provide it.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

We've got 36 confirmed cases here. 13 recovered


----------



## EastTexFrank

Over the week-end the number of reported cases in our County jumped to 7.  We don't know if any have recovered, the severity of the cases or if any are in ICU.  No details what-so-ever.  

Franc, what you are saying goes against my experience in West Africa.  I am not disputing it's easy availability.  When I took it, it was not authorized for use as a prophylactic by the FDA in the USA but it was approved for the treatment of malaria.  I always found that strange.  I used to buy mine at the chemist in Gatwick airport where it was an OTC drug, just like aspirin.  I don't know if it is restricted now in the UK.  It probably is.  They restrict everything.  

I'm with you, in today's circumstances, I'd take it in a heartbeat.  Most of the side effects I experienced came with prolonged usage.  Taking it for a short period of time shouldn't be a problem or it will be much less of a problem.  As my doctor told me, "We can cure most of the side effects, we can't cure malaria".


----------



## FrancSevin

EastTexFrank said:


> Over the week-end the number of reported cases in our County jumped to 7. We don't know if any have recovered, the severity of the cases or if any are in ICU. No details what-so-ever.
> 
> Franc, what you are saying goes against my experience in West Africa. I am not disputing it's easy availability. When I took it, it was not authorized for use as a prophylactic by the FDA in the USA but it was approved for the treatment of malaria. I always found that strange. I used to buy mine at the chemist in Gatwick airport where it was an OTC drug, just like aspirin. I don't know if it is restricted now in the UK. It probably is. They restrict everything.
> 
> I'm with you, in today's circumstances, I'd take it in a heartbeat. Most of the side effects I experienced came with prolonged usage. Taking it for a short period of time shouldn't be a problem or it will be much less of a problem. As my doctor told me, "We can cure most of the side effects, we can't cure malaria".




If it's not used as a prophylactic then why must one begin taking it 14 days "BEFORE" entering a malaria region?
http://malaria.emedtv.com/hydroxychloroquine/hydroxychloroquine.html

 I'm not disputing your experience, just an understanding of the instructed use of the drug in the USA.

My wife and I took it before our bareboat sailing trip to the Windward islands. Grenada, Union Island, Mareau, St Vincent.. They are off the NE tip of South America.


----------



## tiredretired

Boris recovered from death’s door remarkably quickly. Maybe a journalist can ask him if he was treated with Trump Pills?

Or are they just an annoying and fake announcement service like their American counterparts?


----------



## EastTexFrank

FrancSevin said:


> *If it's not used as a prophylactic then why must one begin taking it 14 days "BEFORE" entering a malaria region?*
> http://malaria.emedtv.com/hydroxychloroquine/hydroxychloroquine.html
> 
> I'm not disputing your experience, just an understanding of the instructed use of the drug in the USA.
> 
> My wife and I took it before our bareboat sailing trip to the Windward islands. Grenada, Union Island, Mareau, St Vincent.. They are off the NE tip of South America.



I don't understand the question Franc.  Yes, you start taking it 2 weeks before you go in to a malaria region and continue taking it for 4 or 6 weeks after you come out.  I worked 28 days in West Africa and 28 days at home so I was on it continuously.  At the time I was taking it, it wasn't approved by the FDA for use as a prophylactic for malaria in the USA but it was approved by the FDA for the treatment of malaria attacks in the USA.  As the FDA sees it the two uses were completely different and the drug needed approval for BOTH uses.  

If people in Ethiopia and India are taking it for prophylactic use they are on it continuously.  Most of those people have been exposed to malaria since childhood and probably already have the disease.  If they are popping chloroquine as an adult it is probably to treat a malaria attack and not as a prophylactic.


----------



## Bannedjoe

It's beginning to happen.
A protest in NC by people demanding the state reopen, was met by at least one arrest.
https://dailycaller.com/2020/04/14/north-carolina-reopen-protests-coronavirus/

Taken from twitter:

Protesting is a non-essential activity.

Welp, there goes our first amendment rights to assemble.


----------



## pirate_girl

As of yesterday, 3pm.


----------



## tiredretired

Yesterday was supposed to be the peak day for us with 791 total cases and 29 deaths.  All downhill from here, so say the experts.  Time will tell.  Most of these cases are in the more denser population areas.  Those of us in the sticks are seeing very few cases.  I see some of those Ohio counties have almost as many cases as our whole state.  I guess we got lucky up here, considering we are right next to New York, the worst state in the nation.  

I see Louisiana is flaring up as the latest hot spot.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Bannedjoe said:


> It's beginning to happen.
> A protest in NC by people demanding the state reopen, was met by at least one arrest.
> https://dailycaller.com/2020/04/14/north-carolina-reopen-protests-coronavirus/
> 
> Taken from twitter:
> 
> Protesting is a non-essential activity.
> 
> Welp, there goes our first amendment rights to assemble.




Fight the power!


----------



## JimVT

I was in our smaller town of 6000  south east of seattle wa. yesterday  and the stay at home part isn''t working anymore or it seems not to be.
traffic is heaver and hardware stores are busy. the local news already said were having a slight rise in cases.
like the rest of them I needed something at the feed store that sells bolts.  the outside pickup wasn't being used that I could see.


----------



## Doc

Okay, here we are all staying away from each other.  Corona virus numbers are going down, but not completely gone.   We  slowly get back to work and going out to eat and socializing to some extent.  Not as much as before the pandemic but enough to make us feel we are getting back to enjoying life.   

The virus is not gone.  It will spread once again.   On planes, in elevators, in restaurants, grocery stores, schools etc etc etc.   The virus will once again impact our way of life.   There is no end to this that I can envision until we have a cure.   What am I missing?


----------



## tiredretired

Doc said:


> Okay, here we are all staying away from each other.  Corona virus numbers are going down, but not completely gone.   We  slowly get back to work and going out to eat and socializing to some extent.  Not as much as before the pandemic but enough to make us feel we are getting back to enjoying life.
> 
> The virus is not gone.  It will spread once again.   On planes, in elevators, in restaurants, grocery stores, schools etc etc etc.   The virus will once again impact our way of life.   There is no end to this that I can envision until we have a cure.   What am I missing?



Nothing.


----------



## EastTexFrank

JimVT said:


> I was in our smaller town of 6000  south east of seattle wa. yesterday  and the stay at home part isn''t working anymore or it seems not to be.
> traffic is heaver and hardware stores are busy. the local news already said were having a slight rise in cases.
> like the rest of them I needed something at the feed store that sells bolts.  the outside pickup wasn't being used that I could see.



I went in to our 5k population town this morning just after 8 o'clock for the old peoples hour at Tractor Supply.  It was the first time in over a month that I've left the property.  I really didn't see any difference in traffic.  Part of the town lost power on Sunday during the storms and didn't get it back until yesterday afternoon.  That may have had something to do with it 'coz it's the only reason I could think of.  Tractor Supply wasn't crowded but it wasn't empty either.  Of the 20 or so customers in there only a couple were wearing masks and gloves.  I was one of them.  Most had no PPE on at all.  The staff were all wearing masks but only a couple of those were wearing them correctly.  Some of us were practicing social distancing but most didn't give a shit.  I went in, got what I needed and got the hell out of there, in and out in a lot less than 5 minutes.  

Next I went to CVS and it was practically empty.  I picked up a couple of things and was out of there in no time at all.  

My general impression was that people have given up with the quarantine, gloves and mask and social distancing stuff.  Admittedly, I only went to two places for a matter of minutes but I'm now back home, sanitized and have no intentions of leaving the homestead for at least another month.  My wife says that she needs to make a grocery run for fresh produce but keeps putting it off.  I don't think that she's too keen to go in there either.


----------



## Melensdad

My sister-in-law wants to go to MEIJER Supermarket.  It is a super size store bigger than WalMart.  It's in the northern part of the county where Covid is far more active.

She wants to do their curb-side pick up, which is fine but still seems like a lot more risk than the local store in the small town where we don't have reported Covid issues.

As my S-I-L is a very high risk, she wants my wife to drive.  WTF?

I'm not scared, I think the risk is low to do a curbside pick-up, but why bother?  She wants a specific band of some food that she can't get locally.  And we have 3 months worth of food here already.   I say no.  It is just stupid.  That is not being scared, it is being smart.


----------



## pirate_girl

Just reported 2nd case in our county.
Man in his 40s.


----------



## tiredretired

Melensdad said:


> My sister-in-law wants to go to MEIJER Supermarket.  It is a super size store bigger than WalMart.  It's in the northern part of the county where Covid is far more active.
> 
> She wants to do their curb-side pick up, which is fine but still seems like a lot more risk than the local store in the small town where we don't have reported Covid issues.
> 
> As my S-I-L is a very high risk, she wants my wife to drive.  WTF?
> 
> I'm not scared, I think the risk is low to do a curbside pick-up, but why bother?  She wants a specific band of some food that she can't get locally.  And we have 3 months worth of food here already.   I say no.  It is just stupid.  That is not being scared, it is being smart.



My wife and I had this discussion just the other day.  We both agreed that not only us but her parents as well need to adapt and decide do we need it or want it.  Big difference.

Case in point, her Dad wants the quilted Charmin TP.  He gets the single ply no frills septic friendly Scott from my stash until when and if stocks come back.  

Not trying to be a prick, but no way this old boy is running all around God's green Earth looking for TP.  He gets it though and that is good.


----------



## mla2ofus

I saw a bit of irony just a little while ago. Our local senior center sells lunches for seniors. Today I wore my N95 to get our lunches and all the ladies there were wearing masks and I was the only customer wearing a mask. Mind you this is a majority of people who are most vulnerable,65+. Our one confirmed case has gone thru her quarantine so I guess we're clear again. Our governor just announced he will continue our mitigation to the end of the month.
Mike


----------



## m1west

Looks like we will get out of jail here in Ca. pretty soon. My county only has had 4 and those 4 were infected out of the county, 0 transmission in our county along with 0 hospitalizations and 0 deaths. There is a theory out here that because of the high Chinese population we may have had it here in November/December and the hospitalizations/deaths listed as flu/pneumonia, which is probably true because our governor is not that smart. In any case after testing, the mortality rate is about the same as the flu but with a higher rate of transmission.


----------



## Melensdad

TiredRetired said:


> My wife and I had this discussion just the other day.
> ...
> 
> *Not trying to be a prick...*



EXACTLY

Oh, she apparently wanted some particular flavor of Kool-Aid that is sold at MEIJER but not at the other stores.  Its available from Amazon and other on-line sources.  She is going to order.






pirate_girl said:


> Just reported *2nd case* in our county.
> Man in his 40s.



As of 11:59pm yesterday, *we have 876 cases, 33 deaths.*  And growing.  We get reports at noon each day with the full updated of cases, deaths, beds available, etc etc etc from the prior day.

When this started, Indiana was projected to have enough ventilators and and enough overall hospital beds, but we were projected to fall short of ICU beds.  At this point the state is still showing that we have enough ICU beds to meet the demand.  I've seen a couple different projections of when Indiana will have its "peak" and clearly we won't know when that will happen until AFTER it happens but most of the projections agreed that the peak would happen some day this week.  If that turns out to be true then it looks like my state is going to end up in pretty good shape and will not even run out of ICU beds.

I think our Governor was very good about shutting things down pretty quickly.  I think we had something like 4 cases of Covid in a school in central Indiana when the Governor recommended a 2 week shut down of the schools.  He has amended, expanded, and altered his shut down orders for schools and businesses on a regular basis, but always with a 14 day caveat, so every 2 weeks he makes adjustments.  

My hope is that PARTS of the state can begin to open up sooner while others stay locked down longer.  My county, being the #2 county for cases, obviously will be one of the later counties to open.  But I'm hoping that people in the less affected areas don't have to endure lockdowns for longer than is necessary.


----------



## EastTexFrank

Our count dropped from 7 yesterday to 6 today with no deaths.  I don't know what happened.  I mean, 6 cases in a County of 45,000 people isn't exactly being overwhelmed.  You'd think they could get the count right.  We never get any details about the cases.

TR and Bob, I'm just like you guys, if you don't have to take the risk, why do it? That's how I've been since the start of this thing.  My wife was a little nonplussed at the very beginning but changed her mind in a hurry.  My S-I-L is like Mrs. Bob, if she goes in to town she comes home, strips off in the garage and heads for the shower.  We're all taking it very seriously even though the danger where we are is probably minimal.

I went to town today for the first time and I was a little upset by how casually most of the people were taking it.  My wife has been to the grocery store a couple of times and says that they take it very seriously there.  I don't know.  I haven't been there in over a month.


----------



## Melensdad

I actually brought a couple boxes in from the front porch and got yelled at today.

Literally just carried them inside the door.  No farther.

YELLING ENSUED

Back out, then into the garage to be LYSOL sprayed, then opened, then the contents sprayed with Lysol.  Stripped my clothes and into the washing machine.  


----------------------------------


And we no longer being considered for Foster Parenting due to Covid but I will post it in the thread about foster parenting.


----------



## m1west

Highest death toll in US in 24 hours 1500 dead


----------



## pirate_girl

I think now that we've got 2 people tested positive in the county, folks are taking this even more serious than before.
While at Walmart today, I've seen more masks than the last few times I went there.

Where I work, we've upped the measures of precautions for things entering the building.
When mail and packages arrive, it goes directly into a room for 72 hours after being disinfected before any of the residents can have their mail or even read the newspaper.

Being a geriatric nurse, it's heartbreaking to see many of the residents try and understand why certain things are the way they are.
Even those with advanced dementia know life isn't what it was for them.
Thank God we have a good crew of activity gals who keep them entertained.
I mean you can only watch so much television or play hallway bingo.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

I can relate pg. It's becoming more and more difficult for me. I had actually been doing good and making steady progress with my rehabilitation after my accident 5 years ago. In the past month I've lost physio the gym and my chiropractor. I have a home gym set up to duplicate the workout program I was doing but I can't duplicate physio or the chiropractor. My mobility has gone downhill in just 3 weeks to where I can barely walk across the yard again. I haven't hurt this much in 3 years. And it's getting harder and harder to listen to people whine about not working for 3 weeks when I've done it for 5 years.


----------



## pirate_girl

For what it's worth, I just saw this in the New York Post.
Sorry for the sloppy screen shot.


----------



## Snowtrac Nome

Bannedjoe said:


> It's beginning to happen.
> A protest in NC by people demanding the state reopen, was met by at least one arrest.
> https://dailycaller.com/2020/04/14/north-carolina-reopen-protests-coronavirus/
> 
> Taken from twitter:
> 
> Protesting is a non-essential activity.
> 
> Welp, there goes our first amendment rights to assemble.


 
the police are right its another non essential constitutional right that our government has stripped from us under the guise they are protecting us as long as the population is scared shitless they wont worry about what our elected officials are doing or taking away from us.


----------



## pirate_girl

The second person to test positive in this county works for the corrections center of NW Ohio, in Stryker.


----------



## Melensdad

Indiana reported 3 declining days in a row of new confirmed cases.

The testing labs shut down for a 3 day weekend.

Hmmm, coincidence?   

Our governor is saying that Indianapolis should surge in cases in late April and other parts of the state will follow a week to two weeks later.  We still have plenty of hospital beds, ICU beds and ventilators.






pirate_girl said:


> The second person to test positive in this county works for the corrections center of NW Ohio, in Stryker.



Your state map is showing 12 for Defiance.


----------



## Melensdad

WOW, my county just updated the numbers.  We are up 102 additional cases from yesterday.  Now 978 cases.  

Deaths jumped from 33 to 41 in my county.


Indianapolis is still the major hot spot.  Marian county has over 3200 cases, and the surrounding counties where the suburbs are, add another 1700 cases.  So the overall Indianapolis area is closing in on 5000 cases.


----------



## pirate_girl

Melensdad said:


> Indiana reported 3 declining days in a row of new confirmed cases.
> 
> The testing labs shut down for a 3 day weekend.
> 
> Hmmm, coincidence?
> 
> Our governor is saying that Indianapolis should surge in cases in late April and other parts of the state will follow a week to two weeks later.  We still have plenty of hospital beds, ICU beds and ventilators.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your state map is showing 12 for Defiance.



I live in Henry county now, Bob.
Stryker is in Williams county.
The guy who tested positive is from Henry county.


----------



## pirate_girl

M*A*S*H and the coronavirus.

Enjoy.

[ame]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uIAtw24YgrM[/ame]


----------



## Bannedjoe

Somehow I think everything would look a lot differently if they just reported daily deaths, rather than totals.


----------



## Melensdad

pirate_girl said:


> I live in Henry county now, Bob.
> Stryker is in Williams county.



Ahh, my mistake.  I thought Defiance.


----------



## Melensdad

At roughly 6pm Eastern President Trump will hold a press conference and unveil "guidelines" for how to open up the economy.  Or very likely bits and pieces of the economy by region.  

My fear is that the guidelines will include some sort of "papers" that must be carried around.  Like the Jews carried in Germany pre-WWII.  

But we shall find out soon enough. 

In the mean time a lot of stuff is going on.  Several midwestern states are grouping together to come up with their own cooperative plan.  France shattered a record in reporting the number of new cases.  Germany and Sweden are on the upswing.  New York's Cuomo is keeping the state on lockdown.  Big protests have been occurring in Michigan against the lockdown.  Smaller protests in Kentucky and possibly Pennsylvania?

Fun times.  

Very busy news day, here is just a small portion from ZERO HEDGE, follow the link for all the fun => https://www.zerohedge.com/geopoliti...response-after-global-outbreaks-deadliest-day




> Trump Tells Governors Some States Can Reopen Before May 1; US Cases Top 650k: Live Updates
> Summary:
> 
> 
> Germany reports jump in new cases, deaths
> Spain reports most new cases in a week
> North Dakota releases plan to reopen state May 1
> US case total passes 650k
> France confirms
> Turkey releases mafia boss from prison
> Global Times editor denies report about leak from Wuhan lab
> Trump reschedules tonight's press conference for 6pmET
> Switzerland unveils bailout package
> Singapore reports another record daily jump as 2nd wave arrives
> Italy reports slight rise in new cases, pullback in deaths
> NJ reports jump in cases
> Phil Murphy opens investigation into nursing home deaths
> Details of Trump's reopening guidelines are leaking out
> Cali gov says Trump said "what we were hoping to hear"
> More promising reports about remdesivir
> Sweden reports another alarming jump
> Chinese factories on verge of second shutdown
> France coronavirus-linked deaths fall for first time in 4 days
> UK health minister says it's too early to end lockdown as measures set to be extended
> Trump set to release reopening 'guidelines' some time after 3pmET
> Belgium reports more than 1k new cases
> UK extends lockdown by "at least" 3 weeks
> Macron says EU may collapse unless "coronabonds" happen
> 7 Midwestern states drop guidelines for reopening economy
> Britain crosses 100k case threshold
> European Commission President apologizes to Italy
> Russia's streak of record new cases stretches to 5th day
> Japan expands state of emergency to cover whole country
> Cuomo reports 606 more deaths in NYS
> UK planning to announce lockdown extension today
> Party of South Korean president wins 180 of 300 seats in legislative vote
> President Trump to unveil plan to reopen economy Thursday
> *      *      *
> 
> Update (1710ET): We neglected to note this earlier, but the FT published an interview with French President Emmanuel Macron shortly before the country reported a massive spike in new cases.
> 
> _Emmanuel Macron has warned of the collapse of the EU as a “political project” unless it supports stricken economies such as Italy and helps them recover from the coronavirus pandemic.  Speaking to the FT from the Elysée Palace, the French president said there was “no choice” but to set up a fund that “could issue common debt with a common guarantee” to finance member states according to their needs rather than the size of their economies. This is an idea that Germany and the Netherlands have opposed. The EU faced a “moment of truth” in deciding whether it was more than just a single economic market, with the lack of solidarity during the pandemic likely to fuel populist anger in southern Europe, Mr Macron said. “If we can’t do this today, I tell you the populists will win — today, tomorrow, the day after, in Italy, in Spain, perhaps in France and elsewhere,” he said. “I believe [the EU] is a political project. If it’s a political project, the human factor is the priority and there are notions of solidarity that come into play . . . the economy follows on from that, and let’s not forget that economics is a moral science.”​_
> Now, why is Macron pitching coronabonds as essential for the survival of the EU as a "political project", when the primary benefactors would be Italy and Spain? It's right there in the text: France is the next domino to fall, and Macron knows it. Yet, Germany and the Netherlands remain deeply opposed to the idea.
> 
> Too bad for Macron the Europeans are almost as fractious and petty as their colleagues across the Atlantic.
> 
> *      *      *
> 
> 
> For the first time, it looks like investors are getting gassed up on reports about a possible "miracle drug."
> 
> Reports about Gilead's remdesivir out of a trial in Chicago - trials using the drug are being run around the world on patients in various stages of the illness, though China just shut down two of them for "lack of eligible patients" - are claiming that the drug has shown rapid progress in combating patient's symptoms.
> 
> Futures spike on the news, though keep in mind: This isn't really anything we haven't heard before. It's more reports that the drug "works", just this time few a few dozen more patients having been tested.
> 
> _Gilead Sciences climbed 4.4% post-market Thursday as STAT reported severe Covid-19 patients being treated in Chicago with the company’s experimental drug remdesivir are “seeing rapid recoveries in fever and respiratory symptoms.”
> 
> Almost all patients were discharged in under than a week, and only two patients died, STAT said, citing comments made this week during a video discussion about trial results with University of Chicago faculty members.
> 
> STAT cautions that trials are running at other institutions and full study results can’t yet be determined; Gilead told the news outlet that it’s looking forward to data becoming available._​
> We're also getting more details on the president's "guidelines" for reopening the economy, which, like the remdesivir news, is simply more of the same.
> 
> _President Trump's reopening guidelines suggest a 14-day downward trajectory in coronavirus cases before beginning phased re-opening, although document is said to not offer a specific timeframe for opening up the economy.
> 
> As a guide, US President Trump told Governors they call the shots regarding reopening the economy and that some could begin before May 1st if they want to, while he will conduct a press conference on re-opening the economy at 1800EDT/ 2300BST where he will explain guidelines for opening up and an official noted that guidelines will be flexible and on data driven recommendations. Furthermore, phase one of the guidelines recommends closed schools should remain shut, that people maximize distance when in public and that gatherings over 10 people should generally be avoided, while bars should remain closed but large venues such as restaurants, theatres and sporting venues could open with strict physical distancing.​_
> ...
> 
> *TRUMP GUIDELINES RECOMMEND STILL DISTANCING IN FIRST PHASE
> GUIDELINES SAY PHASE 2 FOR STATES WITH NO EVIDENCE OF REBOUND
> GUIDELINES URGE TELEWORK, SCHOOLS STAYING CLOSED IN PHASE ONE*
> 
> ...
> 
> France isn't alone in reporting a massive jump in cases. New Jersey reported 4,391 new cases, almost as if Gov. Phil Murphy is trying to make Trump and everybody talking about reopening the economy look bad. It brought the state's total to more than 75k, while 362 new deaths were also recorded.
> 
> ...
> 
> More alarming data out of Sweden, one of only a handful of European countries that didn't go all-in on border closures and stay-at-home orders, surfaced this morning: the country reported 613 new cases of coronavirus and 130 new deaths, bringing its totals to 12,540 cases and 1,333 deaths.


----------



## pirate_girl

DeWine has said Ohio will be "open" again on or before May 1st.
Ya sure that's a good idea, guvnah?


----------



## Melensdad

pirate_girl said:


> DeWine has said Ohio will be "open" again on or before May 1st.
> Ya sure that's a good idea, guvnah?



Maybe county by county?


----------



## NorthernRedneck

We've got a bombardier plant here that makes subway cars. They just announced that they are retooling and will be starting to make ventilators. 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/thunder-bay/thunder-bay-bombardier-ventilators-1.5534314


----------



## pirate_girl

https://www.whitehouse.gov/openingamerica/#phase-one

Mark Levin just put that on Facebook.
3 phases.


----------



## EastTexFrank

Our County of 45,000 residents still has only 6 confirmed cases.  

I'm starting to worry about some of these numbers we are seeing from all over the country.  Most of the Counties are just reporting "confirmed cases".  That's not a very helpful number over a month in to this tragedy.  It tells you almost nothing about what is actually going on.

Tyler, just south of us, was doing the exact same thing.  It had 108 confirmed cases and gave no other information at all.  Under pressure they started to elaborate on those numbers.  It seems that of those 108 cases, 46 have been cured, released and sent home leaving only 62 active cases or potential cases in care.  That's a damned sight different and a lot less scary than "108 confirmed cases".  Of those 108 cases there have been two deaths,  one was a male 50+ years old and one was a female 40+ years old.  No information on underlying conditions.  

I'm just worried that these numbers being reported are being used to instill fear and misgivings in the populace so that they are more easily manipulated to fulfil some agenda.  Now, I agree that some places do have major problems but large swathes of the country are only being minimally affected.


----------



## Melensdad

EastTexFrank said:


> Our County of 45,000 residents still has only 6 confirmed cases.
> 
> I'm starting to worry about some of these numbers we are seeing from all over the country.  Most of the Counties *are just reporting "confirmed cases". * That's not a very helpful number over a month in to this tragedy.  _It tells you almost nothing about what is actually going on._
> 
> Tyler, just south of us, was doing the exact same thing.  *It had 108 confirmed cases and gave no other information at all.  *Under pressure they started to elaborate on those numbers.  It seems that of those 108 cases, 46 have been cured, released and sent home leaving only 62 active cases or potential cases in care.  That's a damned sight different and a lot less scary than "108 confirmed cases". . .



The problem is "confirmed cases" tell us very little.

And it seems to be a major reporting problem.

A dentist friend of mine is "confirmed" to have Covid-19.  He is recovering.  He spread the disease to his mother, wife and both of his daughters.  But there is only 1 'confirmed' case.  So 5 people have the disease, 1 is a confirmed case.  

When he recovers he will be reported as a 'recovered' case.  When (if) they all recover then they will not be recorded at all.  His mother, 79 years old with serious underlying conditions, may not recover.  If she dies at home she will have never be recorded as being infected as having had Covid-19 but she will be recorded as a Covid-19 death.

So the recording system sucks


----------



## pirate_girl

^^^^ and then there are cases of whoops! false reporting of cases, as was the case this morning for a resident at a nursing home in Swanton.
Globally and locally this whole thing leaves me wondering just what exactly to believe.


----------



## Melensdad

And in some good news, from ZeroHedge.com

The other big news overnight - and the reason why Dow futs are up nearly 800 points in the green Friday morning - has actually been percolating in investors' minds since shortly after yesterday's close of cash trading. In the early evening on Thursday, *a report claiming 'miraculous' efficacy for Gilead's remdesivir during a University of Chicago study, helped revive hopes that a "miracle drug" might be around the corner.* The results were first reported last night by STAT News.

Here's more from that STAT News report, which we also cited last night.

Remdesivir was one of the first medicines identified as having the potential to impact SARS-CoV-2, the novel coronavirus that causes Covid-19, in lab tests. _The entire world has been waiting for results from Gilead’s clinical trials, and positive results would likely lead to fast approvals by the Food and Drug Administration and other regulatory agencies._ If safe and effective, it could become the first approved treatment against the disease.

*The University of Chicago Medicine recruited 125 people with Covid-19 into Gilead’s two Phase 3 clinical trials. Of those people, 113 had severe disease. All the patients have been treated with daily infusions of remdesivir.*

*"The best news is that most of our patients have already been discharged, which is great. We’ve only had two patients perish," *said Kathleen Mullane, the University of Chicago infectious disease specialist overseeing the remdesivir studies for the hospital.

However, _a statement from Gilead warned that the drug is still in the trial phase, and these results still need to be confirmed._ And as we noted earlier this week, officials in China suspiciously shuttered 2 separate trials - one in Wuhan and one in Beijing - of the global remdesivir study, claiming there weren't enough severely ill patients to run the trials, which sounds like a not-very-believable ruse to us.

*Even Gilead, whose shares are up nearly 20% in premarket trade, warned that the U.Chicago trial is just one of many, and these numbers are simply "anecdotal".*​






pirate_girl said:


> ^^^^ and then there are cases of whoops! false reporting of cases, as was the case this morning for a resident at a nursing home in Swanton.
> Globally and locally this whole thing leaves me wondering just what exactly to believe.



My brother says the hospitals are getting both "false positives" and "false negatives" but that the hospitals ultimately report the cases to the state after a real diagnosis.  Not sure what the heck that is


----------



## tiredretired

We are barreling full speed right into a depression and the communists in our government also sometimes referred to as Democrats are 100% on board with this.  They are rooting for the complete collapse of our economic system so they can install an authoritarian government modeled after China right here in the USA.  With them in charge calling all the shots, of course.  

We cannot allow this to happen, folks.  Not if you value what we all have worked for all these years.  Resist them.   

We need to open this country up and get back to work!!!!  As far as I am concerned, all jobs are essential.  Some more essential than others, no doubt like our health care workers for example but we are all essential in one way or the other. People need to work, I need to go buy my paint, mulch, flowers and other things I need to do around my house.  Others need to buy their art supplies or whatever else interests them and make their lives enjoyable.

Pursuit of happiness is in the Constitution.  It needs to be brought back or we are doomed.


----------



## Melensdad

TiredRetired said:


> We are barreling full speed right into a depression and the communists in our government also sometimes referred to as Democrats are 100% on board with this.  They are rooting for the complete collapse of our economic system so they can install an authoritarian government modeled after China right here in the USA.  With them in charge calling all the shots, of course.
> 
> We cannot allow this to happen, folks.  Not if you value what we all have worked for all these years.  Resist them.
> 
> We need to open this country up and get back to work!!!! * As far as I am concerned, all jobs are essential.  Some more essential than others,* no doubt like our health care workers for example but we are all essential in one way or the other. People need to work, I need to go buy my paint, mulch, flowers and other things I need to do around my house.  Others need to buy their art supplies or whatever else interests them and make their lives enjoyable.
> 
> Pursuit of happiness is in the Constitution.  It needs to be brought back or we are doomed.


Open all the real essential parts of the economy but keep Hollywood, yoga studios, Starbucks and Vegan Food stores closed and the commies will freak out.


----------



## EastTexFrank

The other thing that worries me about this whole thing is this.  I am an extremely high risk individual so I have no problem staying at home but the reason most people are locked up in their houses is to stop the spread of the disease and to "flatten the curve".  What does that mean?  It means that the number of cases is kept lower and it doesn't overwhelm the medical resources.  When you look at the area under both curves, they are essentially the same meaning that the total number of cases is basically the same in both scenarios only in the "flatten the curve" scenario it carries on for a lot longer, by months.  Are the medical resources being overwhelmed.  It doesn't seem so.  Even in New York they haven't reached capacity and haven't used some of the facilities that Trump and the Government has set up.  Around here, in Tyler, the two large medical complexes have 1500 beds ready for coronavirus patients.  As of yesterday they had 62 active cases or potential cases in care.  They're not being overwhelmed by any means.  

I'm not advocating one thing or another but, like PG, I don't know what to believe.  I understand my need to keep the hell away from it.  If I catch it, the results probably won't be pleasant but since over so much of the country the medical resources are hardly being tested would lead you to think that maybe the lockdown restrictions are too severe.  I just don't know.

As an aside, I read a few weeks back, at the official end of flu season, the CDC estimated that the number of flu and flu related deaths for this past year could be as high as 60K.


----------



## tiredretired

Melensdad said:


> Open all the real essential parts of the economy but keep Hollywood, yoga studios, Starbucks and Vegan Food stores closed and the commies will freak out.



And abortion clinics.


----------



## mla2ofus

I too for some time have been wondering if some smoke and mirrors are in play by the gov't and the MSM.
Mike


----------



## Melensdad

And the USA is about to begin a slow re-opening of the nation.  

Hopefully in a very cautious and deliberate way.  

But thankfully it will happen.

In some places sooner, in other places later.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...3WzhioXnprgmBVd3pmPqXuPNDakUaDFUZ2BaeX1kzsU4Q



> *US states with tentative re-opening dates*
> 14:31 EDT, 17 April 2020
> The US states with tentative re-opening dates: Alabama, Idaho, Ohio and Michigan have plans to lift restrictions on May 1 - a day after Trump outlined guidelines and hard-hit places like New York extended lockdowns until May 15
> 
> A handful of US states already have tentative dates to open up again following -related lockdowns as President outlined guidelines for a phased reopening of the devastated US economy.
> 
> Alabama, Idaho, Ohio and Michigan have all expressed plans to reopen in some form by May 1, while Colorado has indicted April 26 and Oklahoma says April 30 for possible dates to kick start parts of their economies again.
> 
> Several others, like and , are expected on Friday to announce updated timetables for lifting restrictions just one day after Trump's announcement.
> 
> Meanwhile, states like hard-hit New York had already committed to extending lockdown measures into at least mid-May prior to Trump unveiling his three-stage guidelines.
> 
> *About 95 percent of the country currently remains on some form of lockdown in a bid to curb the spread of coronavirus.*
> There are varying degrees of stay-at-home orders in those states with the most extreme shutting down all non-essential businesses and urging people to remain indoors unless absolutely necessary.
> 
> *Seven states - Arkansas, Iowa, Nebraska, North Dakota, South Dakota, Utah, Wyoming - still have no stay-at-home orders in place for its residents. *
> 
> Despite no stay-at-home orders in those seven states, some have closed down schools and some non-essential businesses amid the pandemic. They too are looking to start reopening the state economies.
> 
> Ohio's Republican Governor Mike DeWine announced on Thursday his state was planning to reopen some businesses on May 1. _'We must get Ohio's economy moving again. We must get people back to work,' _DeWine said during his coronavirus briefing. The governor said he had put together an economic advisory board, which is made up of small and big business CEOs, as part of the plan to start reopening.
> 
> In re-opening any business, DeWine said it was essential to provide a safe working environment to avoid a spike in coronavirus cases.  _'During the stay at home time, the companies that were allowed to continue have learned a lot and we've seen them put in place some very, very stringent measures. In a sense, this has been a trial period where we can see some of the things that work,' _he said.
> 
> He said the advisory board was currently working on the plan, saying: 'We've got a lot more work to do between now and May 1 because we want to get this right.'
> 
> DeWine did, however, warn that life would not resume as normal for some period of time: _'I am an optimist and am confident that Ohioans will also live up to the challenge of doing things differently as we open back up beginning on May 1.'
> _
> Michigan's Democratic Governor Gretchen Whitmer and Ohio's Republican Governor Mike DeWine have both flagged the possibility of partly re-opening their respective states by May 1
> 
> Trump on Thursday gave governors a road map for recovering from the economic pain of the coronavirus pandemic, laying out 'a phased and deliberate approach' to restoring normal activity in places that have strong testing and are seeing a decrease in COVID-19 cases
> 
> Michigan's Democratic Governor Gretchen Whitmer said on Friday she hoped to begin re-engaging parts of the economy on May 1.
> 
> Her state has faced one of the fastest growing infection rates but some residents have taken to the streets in protest over the strict lockdown and their inability to return to work.  _'I do hope to have some relaxing come May 1 but it's two weeks away, and the information, the data and our ability to test is changing so rapidly,' she said in an interview with GMA. 'It's hard to tell you precisely where we'll be one week from now, let alone two weeks from now.'_
> 
> It comes after four sheriffs issued a joint statement saying that while they would spread public health messages about hand-washing and social distancing, they would not strictly enforce Whitmer's stay-at-home policy because people needed to get back to normal life.
> 
> Mississippi's Republican Governor Tate Reeves said he would extend by a week a stay-at-home order that was set to expire on Monday while easing some restrictions early next week.
> 
> In Utah, Lieutenant Governor Spencer Cox told CNN that parts of the state economy may reopen cautiously in the next couple of weeks.
> 
> In Texas and Florida, Republican governors were expected on Friday to outline plans for a gradual reopening of their states with both of the stay-at-home guidelines set to expire on April 30.
> 
> The governors of states in various parts of the country have already agreed to work together to coordinate reopening their states.
> 
> Seven Midwestern governors announced on Thursday they would coordinate after similar pacts were made in the Northeast and on the West Coast.  The latest agreement includes Illinois, Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, Wisconsin, Minnesota and Kentucky.
> 
> The West Coast pact includes: Washington, Oregon and California and the Northeast includes: New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Rhode Island and Massachusetts.
> 
> It comes as Trump gave governors a road map for recovering from the economic pain of the coronavirus pandemic, laying out 'a phased and deliberate approach' to restoring normal activity in places that have strong testing and are seeing a decrease in COVID-19 cases.
> 
> The new guidelines are aimed at easing restrictions in areas with low transmission of the coronavirus, while holding the line in harder-hit locations. They make clear that the return to normalcy will be a far longer process than Trump initially envisioned, with federal officials warning that some social distancing measures may need to remain in place through the end of the year to prevent a new outbreak.
> 
> Guidelines largely reinforce plans already in the works by governors who have primary responsibility for public health in their states.
> 
> ...


STORY CONTINUES AT THE LINK ABOVE with lots of graphs and photos ​


----------



## tiredretired

Phew, thanks for posting that.  That just made my day seeing the three Northern New England states staying to hell away from New York, New Jersey and the rest of those yellow states.   

Even in these days of COVID19, we still have very little in common with those states.


----------



## m1west

The should get a good look at what reopening looks like as the EU plans to open back up next week.


----------



## EastTexFrank

Gov Abbott says they will cautiously start opening some stuff up in Texas next week.  It's not a lot but it is a start.


----------



## pirate_girl

Meanwhile, in Columbus...


----------



## pirate_girl

Yup!
Hmmm..


----------



## pirate_girl




----------



## road squawker

Lost a good friend today to Covid 19.
He died alone in a hospital, they wouldn't  even let us in one at a time to see him.

I am heartbroken.


----------



## m1west

road squawker said:


> Lost a good friend today to Covid 19.
> He died alone in a hospital, they wouldn't  even let us in one at a time to see him.
> 
> I am heartbroken.



Sorry to hear that. That is a terrible thing.


----------



## Jim_S RIP

road squawker said:


> Lost a good friend today to Covid 19.
> He died alone in a hospital, they wouldn't  even let us in one at a time to see him.
> 
> I am heartbroken.



I’m so sorry. 

Jim


----------



## tiredretired

road squawker said:


> Lost a good friend today to Covid 19.
> He died alone in a hospital, they wouldn't  even let us in one at a time to see him.
> 
> I am heartbroken.



Horrible, just friggin' horrible.  I am very sorry for your loss.


----------



## EastTexFrank

I am so sorry for your loss.  I don't know what else to say to console you except I'll pray for you all tonight.


----------



## EastTexFrank

mla2ofus said:


> I too for some time have been wondering if some smoke and mirrors are in play by the gov't and the MSM.
> Mike



That has been bothering me for about a week now.


----------



## tiredretired

mla2ofus said:


> I too for some time have been wondering if some smoke and mirrors are in play by the gov't and the MSM.
> Mike





EastTexFrank said:


> That has been bothering me for about a week now.



My first OH, OH occurred when I started reading about all the resistance from the left over HCQ.  It left me scratching my head.  I am NO doctor.  I am NO health care professional and nor do I pretend to be one, even on the internet.  LOL, but I do consider myself a seasoned veteran of life in general and possessing a good degree of common sense.  

Common sense alone would dictate that a drug that is readily available, cheap and been around the world for over 50 years that shows promise in controlling a disease that has shut our country down to its knees and killed thousand of folks in a horrible way should be used without delay.  Everyone should be jumping for joy over the prospect.

Nope.  That was not the case, now was it?  Just the opposite as a matter of fact.  

To sum it up, read my sig line again.  It is the truth I am sad and sorry to say.


----------



## pirate_girl

So this plannedemic has sent most of the nation on permanent staycation.
Was this the plan all along?
Ted Cruz believes the government knew about the virus fiasco from Wuhan up until now.
Now the people are demanding to be set free.
Interesting interview with him on the Ben Shapiro show.
Wish I could find it to link.


----------



## pirate_girl

Oops, sorry about that.
It was the Michael Knowles show, not Shapiro.

[ame]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WeD0qhR5XOY[/ame]


----------



## mla2ofus

State dept memos huh. Wonder how far up the ladder that knowledge went?? I'll just refer back to my previous statement in another thread about smoke and mirrors!!
Mike


----------



## tiredretired

pirate_girl said:


> So this plannedemic has sent most of the nation on permanent staycation.
> Was this the plan all along?
> Ted Cruz believes the government knew about the virus fiasco from Wuhan up until now.
> Now the people are demanding to be set free.
> Interesting interview with him on the Ben Shapiro show.
> Wish I could find it to link.



I'm reading there is a HIV sequence in the genome.  Someone please explain to me how that got there if the damn thing was not created in a lab.


----------



## EastTexFrank

TiredRetired said:


> I'm reading there is a HIV sequence in the genome.  Someone please explain to me how that got there if the damn thing was not created in a lab.



Homosexual bat?????


----------



## mla2ofus

Frank, strange things can happen when you sleep hanging upside down!! Maybe it's akin to having sex standing up in a hammock.
Mike


----------



## pirate_girl

Just posted this on his Facebook page.
??????


----------



## pirate_girl

What the hell?
https://www.naturebegsvengeanceonac...fauci-convinced-obama-administration.html?m=1


----------



## Bannedjoe

Did he, didn't he?
I don't know, but I'm certain in my own beliefs that this mysterious black man was the worst thing ever to happen to the USA.


----------



## EastTexFrank

mla2ofus said:


> Maybe it's akin to having sex standing up in a hammock.
> Mike



Darn.  I thought that I had tried or experimented with most things but I totally missed out on that one.  What page of the Kama Sutra was that on?    :th_lmao:


----------



## Bannedjoe

Here's a nightmarish thought that my brain churned up somewhere in the night:
What if this virus was indeed cultivated and planned for using as a biological weapon to wipe out a large part of the planet's population?

What if they weren't yet finished developing this virus, and someone in the lab who was against this whole plan decided to release the virus in its weaker version to allow the population to develop antibodies in order to fight the much stronger yet unreleased strain, and had actually done the world a favor?

Ok.
Back to bed.


----------



## pirate_girl

https://www.worldometers.info/


----------



## m1west

WHO came out this morning and stated the worst is yet to come, while the world opens back up for business??


----------



## tiredretired

m1west said:


> WHO came out this morning and stated the worst is yet to come, while the world opens back up for business??



Screw WHO.  I believe NOTHING that comes out of their pie holes.  Globalist, communist lying bastards.  I hope they go broke and blow away.  Azzzhats. 

Effective today, Outdoor construction, landscaping, road work is now open for business here in Vermont.   Garden Centers are opening and I will be getting my mulch and flowers next week or soon after if the damn weather breaks and warms up. 

One problem.  Right next to us in a COViD Hotspot in MA and NY.  The Governor is telling them to stay the hell out.  I've been telling them that for years now.  :th_lmao:


----------



## mla2ofus

I think WHO is walking dead and just hasn't realized it yet.
Mike


----------



## tiredretired

Bannedjoe said:


> Here's a nightmarish thought that my brain churned up somewhere in the night:
> What if this virus was indeed cultivated and planned for using as a biological weapon to wipe out a large part of the planet's population?
> 
> What if they weren't yet finished developing this virus, and someone in the lab who was against this whole plan decided to release the virus in its weaker version to allow the population to develop antibodies in order to fight the much stronger yet unreleased strain, and had actually done the world a favor?
> 
> Ok.
> Back to bed.



There is HIV in the genome.  It affects men worse than women.  I am NO virologist, I chased electrons for a living,  but I do not recall these things coming up before and they would have been mentioned if they had.  

As my Mom was fond of saying Something is rotten in Denmark.  In this case, something is rotten in China. 

My take.


----------



## pirate_girl

https://www.foxnews.com/health/us-records-lowest-coronavirus-related-deaths-in-2-weeks


----------



## Melensdad

pirate_girl said:


> https://www.foxnews.com/health/us-records-lowest-coronavirus-related-deaths-in-2-weeks



Looking good for several areas, and looks like the curve was flattened.

So that is a good thing.

Of course it just spreads the disease out over a longer period of time, it does not reduce the actual number of people who get the disease.  

This should provide some relief to the health care workers who have been working very hard, especially in the hot spot areas like New York/New Jersey.  Because of all this social distancing it looks like the emergency/make-shift hospitals like the Javits Center and McCormick Place are going to be virtually unused.  Again another good thing.  

Now if we can slowly re-open the economy without getting a big 2nd wave, and without seeing to much more economic harm, that would be a great thing.

But we still are going to be dealing with "social distancing" until there is a vaccine.  Life will not return to normal until that vaccine is widely distributed and proven to have worked.  I'm curious to see what universities do in this fall as several are making contingency plans to do 'virtual' learning into January of 2021.  

And people like me who are 'at risk' individuals, plus people over 65 years old, are probably going to remain in relative isolation until that vaccine shows up.


----------



## tiredretired

If I remember correctly from my American History courses in school, the second wave of the Spanish Flu was caused by the sudden large scale gatherings in celebration of the end of World War 1.  People took to the streets en masse and celebrated for days.  

So, if we can keep the youngsters back on the farm and off the beaches we should  fare much better this time around.  

We shall see.


----------



## m1west

TiredRetired said:


> If I remember correctly from my American History courses in school, the second wave of the Spanish Flu was caused by the sudden large scale gatherings in celebration of the end of World War 1.  People took to the streets en masse and celebrated for days.
> 
> So, if we can keep the youngsters back on the farm and off the beaches we should  fare much better this time around.
> 
> We shall see.



the second wave killed more people than the war


----------



## m1west

The Wuhan flu is now the #1 cause of death in the US


----------



## pirate_girl

The state of Missouri just announced they are suing the Chinese government over the virus.


----------



## Jim_S RIP

pirate_girl said:


> The state of Missouri just announced they are suing the Chinese government over the virus.



The other 56 states should do the same!


----------



## Melensdad

jim slagle said:


> The other 56 states should do the same!



  .  :th_lmao:  .


----------



## EastTexFrank

jim slagle said:


> The other 56 states should do the same!



I bet that you're glad that pot shops are considered essential and are still open.


----------



## Jim_S RIP

EastTexFrank said:


> I bet that you're glad that pot shops are considered essential and are still open.




It’s the opposite problem. Been living on decaf coffee and unsweet iced tea, no drugs or booze. It’s Really doing things to my mind!


----------



## mla2ofus

jim slagle said:


> The other 56 states should do the same!



   I'll bet Barry told you that!!
Mike


----------



## Melensdad

A non-peer reviewed study showing that the Anti-Malaria drug does not work as hoped.  This is a fairly thin study, but it finally quantifies some of the numbers.  With any luck the scientists will find something else that works.

Just posting the headline, but you can follow the link to read the news ==>  https://apnews.com/a5077c7227b8eb8b0dc23423c0bbe2b2


> More deaths, no benefit from malaria drug in VA virus study




And possibly some big news out of North Korea.  Headlines all over the world have lit up with Unsubstantiated reports that North Korean dictator 'rocket man' Kim Jong Un is on his death bed.  

LINK --> https://www.zerohedge.com/geopoliti...p-admits-we-dont-know-whats-going-kim-jong-un



> *Pyongyang Reportedly 'On Lockdown' As Trump Admits 'We Don't Know What's Going On' With Kim Jong Un*
> 
> Months ago, as the novel coronavirus was still barrelling across China during the early days of the outbreak, we reported on rumors about an outbreak inside North Korea. The regime has gone to great lengths to suppress any and all information about how quickly the virus is spreading within NK's borders. Only a handful of stories - including a horrifying rumor about the country executing a quarantine violator with an anti-aircraft gun - based on little more than rumor managed to trickle out.
> 
> At the time, we joked that we probably wouldn't hear much more out of North Korea unless KJU managed to catch the virus. Of course, in this time when truth is stranger than fiction ... the notion that this joke has now become a reality is hardly a surprise. So, when we saw the headlines last night about KJU potentially being on his death bed, we were inclined to take them seriously...
> 
> ...


Full Story at the link above ​




jim slagle said:


> It’s the opposite problem. Been living on decaf coffee and unsweet iced tea, no drugs or booze.* It’s Really doing things to my mind!*



Sorry to hear it Jim because we all know you have so little mind left 



And we have this little tidbit.  _I personally think they should put in a disclaimer that China is lying about the number of cases they have (and they are having another outbreak now). _ But the doubling of the death toll in the USA in only 8 days is troublesome.  I know we need to open the nation, and I support that, but we also need to be ready for a 2nd Wave too.   

FULL STORY at the link => https://news.trust.org/item/20200421211344-sn3xj




> *U.S. coronavirus deaths top 45,000, doubling in little over a week*
> 
> April 21 (Reuters) - U.S. coronavirus deaths topped 45,000 on Tuesday doubling in a little over a week and rising by a near-record amount in a single day, according to a Reuters tally.
> 
> The United States has by far the world's largest number of *confirmed* coronavirus cases at over 810,000, almost four times as many as Spain, the country with the second-highest number. Globally, cases topped 2.5 million on Tuesday.
> 
> U.S. deaths increased by more than 2,750 on Tuesday alone, just shy of a peak of 2,806 deaths in a single day on April 15.
> 
> New Jersey, Pennsylvania and Michigan each reported their highest single-day coronavirus-related death tolls on Tuesday - over 800 between the three states. New York state, the epicenter of the U.S. outbreak, reported 481 new deaths.
> 
> Health officials have noted that deaths are a lagging indicator of the outbreak, coming weeks after patients fall sick, and do not mean stay-at-home restrictions are failing to slow the spread of the virus....





The same day that Illinois Governor JD _"it's not my fault"_ Pritzker along with the Chicago Mayor proclaimed that Illinois may be shut down into JUNE, the governor of California announced some grim news regarding the big jump in their cases.  Many of the cases, as a % of the population, are in RURAL areas.  It should be noted that across most of the United States, the rural hospitals are LEAST equipped to deal with serious illnesses.

Linky dinky doo:  https://thehill.com/homenews/state-...rts-highest-one-day-rise-in-coronavirus-cases



> *California reports highest one-day rise in coronavirus cases*
> J. Edward Moreno04/21/20 05:02 PM EDT
> California reported 2,318 new coronavirus cases Monday, *marking the highest one-day jump the state has seen*.
> 
> On Tuesday, the California Department of Public Health reported a total of 30,978 confirmed cases and 1,208 deaths. The number of confirmed cases in the state spiked by 7.4 percent and the death toll increased by 5 percent in the last 24 hours.
> 
> “As you’ve seen, the [ICU] number has been bouncing around,” California Gov. Gavin Newsom (D) said during his daily press briefing Tuesday. “One percent to 2 percent — we’ve declined a few days here and there. It’s certainly stabilizing. But yesterday we saw an increase of 3.8%.”
> 
> Newsom noted that *cases in his state are not centralized in its urban centers, with some smaller counties facing higher caseloads percentagewise than Los Angeles or San Francisco. *
> 
> “It’s a way of just emphasizing this: COVID-19 and the number of hospitalizations, COVID-19 and the total number of [positive cases] impact the entire state of California,” Newsom said.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

I just saw that a nursing home in s Ontario became infected with covid. 100 people infected so far. 30 dead. Our numbers are low in Canada compared to other countries. But if we started acting carelessly that could all change.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

Our premier is now hopeful that things can start to return to normal by Victoria day. That's third Monday in may for you suthetners. 

https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/mobile/on...a-day-schools-may-be-last-to-reopen-1.4906840


----------



## EastTexFrank

NorthernRedneck said:


> Our premier is now hopeful that things can start to return to normal by Victoria day. That's third Monday in may for you suthetners.
> 
> https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/mobile/on...a-day-schools-may-be-last-to-reopen-1.4906840



That's in keeping with an article that I read the other day.  It said that most States would start opening up between mid-May to mid-June.  The article did emphasize that the operative word was "start" opening up.  That's another month to two months of this self imposed imprisonment.  Personally, I think the people are getting a little tired of this stuff and will start opening things up on their own before then.  Ultra high risk people like me?  I'll be sitting at home watching what happens.


----------



## Bannedjoe

EastTexFrank said:


> Personally, I think the people are getting a little tired of this stuff and will start opening things up on their own before then.



I'm certain people are tired of this shit.
I think the overreaction factor was way too high on this.

I've pretty much done things as I always have.
If I need parts, I go to town like I always have.
If I can wait, I get them on line as I always have.

I have never caught a flu.
I rarely catch a cold, and if I do, it's never devastating, and usually clears up in a day or two.

Do I want to catch this thing? Certainly not, but the odds are good that somewhere I'll be exposed, as we all will.

To many, too much has been lost already, and I'm certain there are those who can't afford to lose any more, nor wish to go around acting like scaredy cats and sacrificing their lifestyles and rights.

Your chances of dying everyday are probably no higher with this virus than anything else you do on a daily basis in your life.
When it's your turn, it's your turn, and you can't quit life and sit inside thinking you're going to avoid your expiration date.

I think most people will come to this conclusion and just get on with life.


----------



## pirate_girl

Senator Rand Paul Urges Safely Reopening The Economy.


http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=8-x7uj0e7sI


----------



## NorthernRedneck

That's what I took from it too. It definitely won't be a case of flip the switch and everything is back to normal. Things will take time.


----------



## tiredretired

Breaking news from CNN....

Skydiver forgets to open parachute, succumbs to Coronavirus.


----------



## Melensdad

One of the doctors I follow suggests that grocery shopping is one of the main causes of the spread of the virus.  Not so much the cans or food products but the air as people exhale droplets, sneeze, cough, etc inside the stores.  

Seems to me if masks were mandated to go into stores, if plexiglass was installed at the cash registers to protect clerks, and social distancing was enforced inside the stores, then ALL retail stores could be opened.


----------



## 300 H and H

Melensdad said:


> One of the doctors I follow suggests that grocery shopping is one of the main causes of the spread of the virus.  Not so much the cans or food products but the air as people exhale droplets, sneeze, cough, etc inside the stores.
> 
> Seems to me if masks were mandated to go into stores, if plexiglass was installed at the cash registers to protect clerks, and social distancing was enforced inside the stores, then ALL retail stores could be opened.



Very good ideas...

Do not forget the virus is on the floor of the store, as the droplets fall to the ground. Your shoes pick it up and it is now on the floor of your car. Take your shoes off and leave them at the door when home. Then hit them with disinfectant as soon as you can... Then the floor of your car spray with Lysol...

Regards, Kirk


----------



## Melensdad

300 H and H said:


> Very good ideas...
> 
> Do not forget the virus is on the floor of the store, as the droplets fall to the ground. Your shoes pick it up and it is now on the floor of your car. Take your shoes off and leave them at the door when home. Then hit them with disinfectant as soon as you can... Then the floor of your car spray with Lysol...
> 
> Regards, Kirk



Good point about the shoes.  They can track it right into your house.

We have shoes and light jackets that we use in the designated "covid car" if we have to leave the property for any reason.  Those shoes and jackets never come into the house to track the disease into the house.  Of course our pants may have it on them, but those go directly into the washing machine.

I don't worry about disinfecting the *car floor*.  The car is used about once every 10 to 14 days.  We park it out in the sun.  Between the time it sits there, and the UV light from the sun, the virus on the floor is likely inert.  _Someone who uses a car differently than we do might have very different reasons/needs to spray down the carpet.  _

*But* I will wipe down the shift lever, steering wheel, etc.


----------



## EastTexFrank

It's day 42 of our self imposed isolation, day 39 of the State's declaration and day 22 of the mandatory stay at home order and we are probably only half way through this crap.

We handle things pretty much like the rest of you.  It's been one to two weeks for trips to town.  I don't worry too much about the car when it's sitting at home but all the "touching surfaces" get wiped down as soon as it gets here.  My wife hangs her jacket and outer clothes up outside and they sit there until the next trip to town.  We've also been using Melensdad's brother's technique of rotating masks to try to preserve our supply.  Since most of our trips to town are the 30 minutes in and out variety it does help.  

We try to be careful but not paranoid.  We are still at 6 confirmed cases of the virus out of a county population of 45,000.  All six cases are self isolating at home.


----------



## bczoom

Melensdad said:


> Seems to me if masks were mandated to go into stores, if plexiglass was installed at the cash registers to protect clerks, and social distancing was enforced inside the stores, then ALL retail stores could be opened.


In PA, masks are now required in all public places.  The other things you mentioned are also in place at our stores.



Melensdad said:


> Between the time it sits there, and the UV light from the sun, the virus on the floor is likely inert.


Put your faith in the time it sits there, not in the UV.  Car windows don't let much if any UV light through.  That's why most progressive lenses don't work inside cars.


----------



## tiredretired

Time to get this country moving.  Time to get people back to work.

I thought the whole purpose of this quarantine was to flatten the curve.  Spread it out to keep hospitals from being overloaded.  That has been accomplished, even in New York.  Javits Center not needed, Hospital Ship not needed.  

Let's get this economy working.  Let's get moving, America.  This is all starting to feel like bullshit.  Otherwise, the coming economic collapse, depression and widespread food shortages are going to kill a hell of a lot more people than this virus has.

Don't even get me started on the government printing Trillions upon trillions of dollars to keep the finger in the dike.


----------



## Melensdad

Well not such great news out of Indiana.

After what looked like a "peak" in cases followed by a decline in new cases, *Indiana just posted a record number of new cases today.*

Indiana is hoping to start LIMITED re-openings sometime in May.


----------



## EastTexFrank

I believe that Texas is going to take a middle of the road approach to opening on or around 1st June.  

We still only have 6 cases in the County and have had for over a week.  With everything basically shut down the young people are staying close to home since there's no place for them to go.  Once they start opening back up they will start heading towards Tyler for entertainment and bringing the virus back home with them.  So, there could be an increase in cases around here.

There are still some things that I need to get, nothing desperate but more of a like to have.  I may go in to town on Monday while it's still relatively clear and do some serious shopping before the 1st of June rolls around.  .


----------



## tiredretired

Hit the grocery store this morning for our 2 week replenish and expand our stocks.  

No Toilet Paper
No Paper Towels
No liquid soap, no hand sanitizer, Clorox Bleach or Clorox wipes.
Very little pork products.
No pork roasts, no ground pork, no spare ribs.  Plenty of bacon though.  
Very little Chicken
Only 70% ground beef that looked like reconstituted road kill. 
Very limited fresh vegetables, no carrots, radishes, cabbage.  Plenty of onions, limited lettuce and tomatoes.
Limited Milk supplies.  No whole milk.
Very limited selection of frozen vegetables.    

On the plus side in the bargain area of the meat case was 4 one pound packages of Wagu ground beef for $3.99/pound.  I bought all 4 and I got my two giant bottles of Prune Juice.  

I found 2 cans of Macaroni & Beef for a buck a can.  I bought both. 

Much more limited supply overall than two weeks ago.  My wife was a little shocked.  

The trend I observed today is the food supply is slowly tightening and getting worse.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

Something all those protestors against quarantine and lockdown should consider.


----------



## Melensdad

TiredRetired said:


> Hit the grocery store this morning for our 2 week replenish and expand our stocks.
> 
> No Toilet Paper
> No Paper Towels
> No liquid soap, no hand sanitizer, Clorox Bleach or Clorox wipes.
> Very little pork products.
> No pork roasts, no ground pork, no spare ribs.  Plenty of bacon though.
> Very little Chicken
> Only 70% ground beef that looked like reconstituted road kill.
> Very limited fresh vegetables, no carrots, radishes, cabbage.  Plenty of onions, limited lettuce and tomatoes.
> Limited Milk supplies.  No whole milk.
> Very limited selection of frozen vegetables.
> 
> On the plus side in the bargain area of the meat case was 4 one pound packages of Wagu ground beef for $3.99/pound.  I bought all 4 and I got my two giant bottles of Prune Juice.
> 
> I found 2 cans of Macaroni & Beef for a buck a can.  I bought both.
> 
> Much more limited supply overall than two weeks ago.  My wife was a little shocked.
> 
> The trend I observed today is the food supply is slowly tightening and getting worse.



I keep reading articles that say:

Pork processing plants are *closing* in several states
Beef processing plants are *closing* in several states
Chicken processing plants are *closing* in several states
Farmers are *unable* to harvest some crops
Farmers are *dumping* milk
Farmers are letting some crops *rot*
And then I read/hear Sonny Purdue say there is *plenty of food*, we have no risk of shortages, etc.  

And here you are reporting that the store is *out of stock* of many good.

I'll admit that I have not gone into a grocery store since February, but I have done the on-line shopping at my local grocery where they deliver to my car.  I've also used Amazon for mail order pantry items.  

Amazon is out of stock of many items.  The local shop's on-line system let's you choose your substitute options if the item is out of stock.  You can let them pick and item, you can pick a specific item but if that is out of stock too then you get nothing.  Or you can ask for a refund.  

So I tend to think we have a problem with the supply.  

Maybe it's a problem with distribution?  Some suggest that if the FOODSERVICE people simply change the size of the cans, bottles and bags they ship we'd have plenty of food.  Perhaps that is true.  But it's easy to say and difficult to retool a packaging line.  And if they do, they now have to change their distribution channels, and customers will be unfamiliar with their brand names.


----------



## mla2ofus

They don't seem to have a problem retooling when it comes down to increasing the price or reducing package size.
Mike


----------



## pirate_girl

From The Federalist.
https://thefederalist.com/2020/04/2...itals-doctors-and-the-u-s-health-care-system/



> However, in hindsight it seems clear that treating the entire country as if it were New York City was a huge mistake that has cost millions of American jobs and destroyed untold amounts of wealth. Now that we know our hospitals aren’t going to be overrun by COVID-19 cases, governors and mayors should immediately reverse course and begin opening their states and communities for business.
> 
> Of course, some already are—and in a phased, cautious manner, as they should. But the overarching narrative that we all bought into, that unless we stayed home and “flattened the curve” our hospitals would be inundated, and if your kids got sick there would be no beds available to treat them, has turned out to be false.
> 
> *It hasn’t happened, and it most likely won’t happen, especially now that new evidence is emerging that suggests many more people have already contracted COVID-19 than previously thought, which means the disease might be far less lethal than we feared.*


----------



## m1west

mla2ofus said:


> They don't seem to have a problem retooling when it comes down to increasing the price or reducing package size.
> Mike



Not as easy as it sounds I am in food processing, First the metal for cans is purchased for making the cans the year before. The type of metal and the coating are specific to the size of can and the contents. Also until harvest time there is nothing to can except reman and from bulk storage which isn't much. There are can lines idle right now ( Gallon cans ) and the line right next to it ( shelf size ) running 24/7 once all the shelf sized cans are depleted from storage there is not going to be more until after fresh pack.


----------



## tiredretired

Melensdad said:


> I keep reading articles that say:
> 
> Pork processing plants are *closing* in several states
> Beef processing plants are *closing* in several states
> Chicken processing plants are *closing* in several states
> Farmers are *unable* to harvest some crops
> Farmers are *dumping* milk
> Farmers are letting some crops *rot*
> And then I read/hear Sonny Purdue say there is *plenty of food*, we have no risk of shortages, etc.
> 
> And here you are reporting that the store is *out of stock* of many good.
> 
> I'll admit that I have not gone into a grocery store since February, but I have done the on-line shopping at my local grocery where they deliver to my car.  I've also used Amazon for mail order pantry items.
> 
> Amazon is out of stock of many items.  The local shop's on-line system let's you choose your substitute options if the item is out of stock.  You can let them pick and item, you can pick a specific item but if that is out of stock too then you get nothing.  Or you can ask for a refund.
> 
> *So I tend to think we have a problem with the supply.  *
> 
> Maybe it's a problem with distribution?  Some suggest that if the FOODSERVICE people simply change the size of the cans, bottles and bags they ship we'd have plenty of food.  Perhaps that is true.  But it's easy to say and difficult to retool a packaging line.  And if they do, they now have to change their distribution channels, and customers will be unfamiliar with their brand names.



After what we saw yesterday, I believe without a doubt there is a problem.  At this point, I would categorize the problem at a 3 or 4 out of 10.  There was still a lot in the store, but fresh food items like vegetables, fruit, meats are limited.  I was surprised to see frozen vegetables and frozen fruit in short supply.  I bought the last bag of frozen blueberries in the shelf.  

Canned soups in short supply except for Progresso, for some odd reason. Regular Campbells and Campbells Chunky (my favorite) in very short supply.  

No canned Kindney, Navy, Butter, Pinto beans.  No bagged beans,  although they had a  good stock of Bush's beans, but not a great variety.  I like the BBQ one and that was non existent. 

When I first checked there was NO boneless Chicken breast in the meat case at all but when I noticed someone with a package in their cart I went back and there were about a dozen packages in the case so I went back and got two to build up my chicken supply.  I would have bought more, but felt guilty about it that.  It was just not good.

I do not believe what Sonny Perdue is telling us and I understand that to a point.  If he tells us the truth, that will just exacerbate the situation.  

My advise to all my friends both in person and virtual is prepare better than yo already have as much as you can, as much as you can afford and do it now.


----------



## tiredretired

Other non existent items:

Flour
All sugars, regular, confectioner, brown.
Yeast
Baking powder
Baking soda


----------



## mla2ofus

m1west said:


> Not as easy as it sounds I am in food processing, First the metal for cans is purchased for making the cans the year before. The type of metal and the coating are specific to the size of can and the contents. Also until harvest time there is nothing to can except reman and from bulk storage which isn't much. There are can lines idle right now ( Gallon cans ) and the line right next to it ( shelf size ) running 24/7 once all the shelf sized cans are depleted from storage there is not going to be more until after fresh pack.



   Then why not just increase the package price? I'm sure their bean counters are much more intelligent than us peons!!`
Mike


----------



## m1west

mla2ofus said:


> Then why not just increase the package price? I'm sure their bean counters are much more intelligent than us peons!!`
> Mike



It doesn't have anything to do with price, everything for this year got planned and purchased last year. it all starts at the steel mill for the cans and the farmers for the product. So if there are no cans available or food harvested until it grows, there is no canned food. in canned food anyway.


----------



## Melensdad

TiredRetired said:


> Other non existent items:
> 
> Flour
> All sugars, regular, confectioner, brown.
> Yeast
> Baking powder
> Baking soda



You can buy 50# bags fo flour, sugar, etc

This is all available via foodservice.  But most consumers wouldn't have a clue how to deal with those quantities.  It's not legal to buy it, break it down into smaller bags, and resell it without FDA approval, licenses, etc.  Even then, it would be far more expensive to break down a 50# bag into 5# bags than many would be willing to pay.






mla2ofus said:


> Then why not just increase the package price? I'm sure their bean counters are much more intelligent than us peons!!`
> Mike



Very different distribution channels too.  Foodservice suppliers (trucks/warehouses) are not shipping to grocery stores, dollar stores, etc.  Grocery suppliers (different trucks/different warehouses) are not shipping to foodservice customers.  Totally different sets of customers, totally different types of credit terms, totally different sets of distribution needs, totally different sales forces, totally different customer expectations, etc.






pirate_girl said:


> From The Federalist.
> https://thefederalist.com/2020/04/2...itals-doctors-and-the-u-s-health-care-system/



Unfortunately there is evidence to suggest that the testing might not be sensitive enough to detect the differences between the many various types of corona viruses and there is no current evidence to support that those who have already contracted covid-19 have any mid-to-long term immunity (more than a couple months)


----------



## NorthernRedneck

So it's all over the news that trump suggested injections of lysol or other cleaning products directly into coronavirus patients as a way to stop the disease???  Seriously? 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/04/24/coronavirus-latest-news/


----------



## EastTexFrank

NorthernRedneck said:


> So it's all over the news that trump suggested injections of lysol or other cleaning products directly into coronavirus patients as a way to stop the disease???  Seriously?
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/04/24/coronavirus-latest-news/



Please don't believe anything, and I mean *ANYTHING*, that is published in the US media, especially concerning the corona virus and Trump.  

As far as the tests not being able to discern between the different types of corona virus, it's called COVID-19 for a reason.  There are 18 more of the buggers out there.


----------



## pirate_girl

EastTexFrank said:


> As far as the tests not being able to discern between the different types of corona virus, it's called COVID-19 for a reason.  There are 18 more of the buggers out there.



Yes.
Furthermore, back in February when myself, many of my coworkers and my son Jeff were all sick with a flu like we never had before, I was certain I had influenza A.
My doctor tested me for it, and it came back negative.
There is a reason for that.
I believe with all of my being that I've already had this in a milder form.
3 damn days of not being able to move.
Temps all over the place.
Headache from hell.
No congestion but a dry cough.
5 of my coworkers think the same.
Back then we had already quarantined our back ward with 9 of our residents very ill.
This was the first week of February.


----------



## tiredretired

NorthernRedneck said:


> So it's all over the news that trump suggested injections of lysol or other cleaning products directly into coronavirus patients as a way to stop the disease???  Seriously?
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/04/24/coronavirus-latest-news/



I watched that presser.  HE DID NOT SAY THAT!!  Those fucking assholes negative cucks in the media made that up.  Total bullshit from the git go. 

He was thinking out loud when he talked about somehow utilizing UV to help people.  He admitted he did not know a lot about it, just throwing it out there.  That is what meetings are for, throwing out ideas and seeing what sticks and what the brainiacs can come with. 

Trump has his faults, but at least the guy is not locked up in his basement talking to himself and shitting in his Depends like Biden is.


----------



## tiredretired

Melensdad said:


> You can buy 50# bags fo flour, sugar, etc



I have plenty of flour on hand, that is not a concern for us at all. We have AP, Bread and Self Rising for biscuits.  I was just pointing out that for the first time in my long life the flour section was as bare as a liberal's prepping pantry.

I have a relative that owns a small chain of Subways.  He can get me anything I need through food service.  He is the guy that got me all those McKenzie Hot Dogs.


----------



## EastTexFrank

TiredRetired said:


> Trump has his faults, but at least the guy is not locked up in his basement talking to himself and shitting in his Depends like Biden is.



Yea, but does Biden know he is in his basement and does he know that he's shitting himself.  Inquiring minds need to know!


----------



## tiredretired

EastTexFrank said:


> Yea, but does Biden know he is in his basement and does he know that he's shitting himself.  Inquiring minds need to know!



The son of a bitch does not know what planet he is on, so to answer your question, probably no.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

We've had our first death here. A man in his 50s with underlying health problems. 


https://www.tbnewswatch.com/local-news/first-covid-19-death-reported-in-thunder-bay-district-2279619


----------



## NorthernRedneck

Just a bit of positive news for frontline workers in Ontario who will receive a temporary wage boost during these trying times. 

https://www.tbnewswatch.com/local-news/frontline-workers-receive-temporary-pay-boost-2282752


----------



## Backyardski

TiredRetired said:


> I watched that presser.  HE DID NOT SAY THAT!!  Those fucking assholes negative cucks in the media made that up.  Total bullshit from the git go.
> 
> He was thinking out loud when he talked about somehow utilizing UV to help people.  He admitted he did not know a lot about it, just throwing it out there.  That is what meetings are for, throwing out ideas and seeing what sticks and what the brainiacs can come with.
> 
> Trump has his faults, but at least the guy is not locked up in his basement talking to himself and shitting in his Depends like Biden is.




I don’t wade into the political manure pit often, first time doing so on the forum. I think right wingers and radical liberals really have a lot in common. Lots of anger and little desire to seek out the truth, and no desire to find common good and advance civilization in a way that is remotely possible. Billions of opinions in the world, the loudest ones seem to work for the fewest people. This chunk of rock is going to keep going around the sun with or without us.
I have friends that are libtards and friends that are Trump-humpers. I am a radical centrist. I’m a fan of common sense, truth and personal liberties. I love my wife, my boys, my family, our dogs, our house, our land, snowcats, nature, going fast or slow on motorized stuff, building things, friends, hunting and fishing when the time allows, America, democracy- a lot of those things are universal. If someone feels strongly about something, I listen and try to see it from their point of view while realizing one issue doesn’t define a person. People are made up of so much more than the list of what politicians say you have believe to jump on their train. If you aren’t with the party you’re wrong. The outrage from both parties about everything is sickening. Stupid talking points. 

That being said, I’m not looking to argue and can handle it if you want to call me names.

I watched and heard him say it. The latest (unless I missed a new one) defense is that he was being sarcastic about injecting disinfectants and shining UV and other light on and in the body, that isn’t something a person in his position should be entertaining in public. He definitely wasn’t being sarcastic, he thought his brain was coming up with a(nother) miracle cure. The CDC chiefs have better things to do than listen to him spew shit at the camera for two hours a day. That could be reduced to 15 minutes of reality from the people who actually have a handle on what is going on. That’s quality tweeting and tv time he’s wasting.
The Coronavirus Task Force press conferences are for giving factual information to the 350,000,000 Americans that they are in charge of keeping updated about what they are doing and what is happening - Not rambling brain farts and put downs attacking the reporters that are asking actual questions that are directly related to what’s going on. If they are hard or embarrassing questions, they are fake news.  Trump is really good at insults and self praise, and not being honest. Or admitting fault, ever. He is a deeply flawed example of a human. It looks like they finally convinced him to stop. A president’s words matter.
Poison control centers are reporting a spike in calls about people taking his ramblings as facts, blind facts. He’s not a scientist or doctor and he doesn’t read. He’s definitely not a conservative except when he’s playing one on tv. He runs on grudges, conspiracy theories and self interest. 
He donated to Hillary

Now is not a time for bullshit. Old and compromised Americans are dying, as are healthy people, and cops, and vets, and drs, and nurses, and kids, and grocery store workers. There’s no guarantee of immunity after infection, no guarantee you or I wouldn’t die from it, it’s highly contagious, it is new and not fully understood. It is not a hoax. Maybe they can find a vaccine or treatment, might be a long while. This is a issue for the world, best to have a grown up in charge. It is ok to acknowledge we don’t have the answers yet.  The man is not capable.

More dead in a month than from the flu in a year, with only a small percentage of the population having been exposed to Covid-19. 

There aren’t 18 prior Covids, the 19 stands for 2019-the year it was identified. Co (Corona) Vi(virus) D (disease) 19(2019). There are hundreds of different types of coronavirus, most don’t cause global pandemics.  

Other than that I don’t really have an opinion:th_lmao:


----------



## marchplumber

I'll be......worth reading.....thks!


----------



## Backyardski

Oh yeah, and I don’t think Biden is the man for the job either


----------



## mla2ofus

I think the experts are finding more people exposed and showing no symptoms than originally thought or estimated. I think all their models have been pulled out of someone's a$$ along with a cloud of smoke!!
Mike


----------



## EastTexFrank

I agree with you on Biden.. That thought scares me.



Backyardski said:


> There aren’t 18 prior Covids, the 19 stands for 2019-the year it was identified. Co (Corona) Vi(virus) D (disease) 19(2019). There are hundreds of different types of coronavirus, most don’t cause global pandemics.



That was me that said that.  I apologize.  I read it somewhere and didn't check or cross reference it.  It just shows you though how much misinformation and disinformation is out there.  Actually finding the "truth" isn't easy.


----------



## tiredretired

Backyardski said:


> I don’t wade into the political manure pit often, first time doing so on the forum. I think right wingers and radical liberals really have a lot in common. Lots of anger and little desire to seek out the truth, and no desire to find common good and advance civilization in a way that is remotely possible. Billions of opinions in the world, the loudest ones seem to work for the fewest people. This chunk of rock is going to keep going around the sun with or without us.
> I have friends that are libtards and friends that are Trump-humpers. I am a radical centrist. I’m a fan of common sense, truth and personal liberties. I love my wife, my boys, my family, our dogs, our house, our land, snowcats, nature, going fast or slow on motorized stuff, building things, friends, hunting and fishing when the time allows, America, democracy- a lot of those things are universal. If someone feels strongly about something, I listen and try to see it from their point of view while realizing one issue doesn’t define a person. People are made up of so much more than the list of what politicians say you have believe to jump on their train. If you aren’t with the party you’re wrong. The outrage from both parties about everything is sickening. Stupid talking points.
> 
> That being said, I’m not looking to argue and can handle it if you want to call me names.
> 
> I watched and heard him say it. The latest (unless I missed a new one) defense is that he was being sarcastic about injecting disinfectants and shining UV and other light on and in the body, that isn’t something a person in his position should be entertaining in public. He definitely wasn’t being sarcastic, he thought his brain was coming up with a(nother) miracle cure. The CDC chiefs have better things to do than listen to him spew shit at the camera for two hours a day. That could be reduced to 15 minutes of reality from the people who actually have a handle on what is going on. That’s quality tweeting and tv time he’s wasting.
> The Coronavirus Task Force press conferences are for giving factual information to the 350,000,000 Americans that they are in charge of keeping updated about what they are doing and what is happening - Not rambling brain farts and put downs attacking the reporters that are asking actual questions that are directly related to what’s going on. If they are hard or embarrassing questions, they are fake news.  Trump is really good at insults and self praise, and not being honest. Or admitting fault, ever. He is a deeply flawed example of a human. It looks like they finally convinced him to stop. A president’s words matter.
> Poison control centers are reporting a spike in calls about people taking his ramblings as facts, blind facts. He’s not a scientist or doctor and he doesn’t read. He’s definitely not a conservative except when he’s playing one on tv. He runs on grudges, conspiracy theories and self interest.
> He donated to Hillary
> 
> Now is not a time for bullshit. Old and compromised Americans are dying, as are healthy people, and cops, and vets, and drs, and nurses, and kids, and grocery store workers. There’s no guarantee of immunity after infection, no guarantee you or I wouldn’t die from it, it’s highly contagious, it is new and not fully understood. It is not a hoax. Maybe they can find a vaccine or treatment, might be a long while. This is a issue for the world, best to have a grown up in charge. It is ok to acknowledge we don’t have the answers yet.  The man is not capable.
> 
> More dead in a month than from the flu in a year, with only a small percentage of the population having been exposed to Covid-19.
> 
> There aren’t 18 prior Covids, the 19 stands for 2019-the year it was identified. Co (Corona) Vi(virus) D (disease) 19(2019). There are hundreds of different types of coronavirus, most don’t cause global pandemics.
> 
> Other than that I don’t really have an opinion:th_lmao:



*ONE MUST READ THE TRANSCRIPT IN ITS ENTIRETY AND THEN PUT IT INTO THE PROPER CONTEXT OF THE DISCUSSION.  *

So, is it true? Did Trump tell people to drink Lysol and inject bleach into themselves to fight coronavirus?

You be the judge. here are the remarks in question:

[Trump] So, supposing we hit the body with a tremendous — whether it’s ultraviolet or just very powerful light — and I think you said that that hasn’t been checked, but you’re going to test it.  And then I said, supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way, and I think you said you’re going to test that too.  It sounds interesting.
ACTING UNDER SECRETARY BRYAN:  We’ll get to the right folks who could.

THE PRESIDENT:  Right.  And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute.  One minute.  And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning.  Because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs. * So it would be interesting to check that.  So, that, you’re going to have to use medical doctors with.  But it sounds — it sounds interesting to me.  NOTICE HE SAID IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO CHECK IT OUT, BUT ONE WOULD HAVE TO USE MEDICAL DOCTORS WITH IT.  IN OTHER WORDS, DO NOT DO IT WITHOUT A DOCTOR SAYING IT IS OK.  
*
Trump wasn't telling people to drink or inject bleach — he was asking whether or not it would be possible to clean inside the body with a similar disinfectant. 
*He also insisted, "you're going to have to use medical doctors with" any such practice. In other words, "don't try this at home, kids."*

Those remarks make even more sense when put in their broader context. Trump was asking William Bryan, acting under secretary for science and technology at the Department of Homeland Security (DHS), to clarify the results of coronavirus testing with the Johns Hopkins Applied Physics Lab. Bryan reported that "the virus dies quickest in the presence of direct sunlight," noting "a very significant difference when it gets hit with UV rays." He also reported that "bleach will kill the virus in five minutes; isopropyl alcohol will kill the virus in 30 seconds, and that’s with no manipulation, no rubbing — just spraying it on and letting it go."

Trump was asking questions to clarify the results of a study — a study that should give Americans hope about combatting the virus.

When Anderson Cooper interviewed FDA Commissioner Dr. Stephen Hahn about Trump's remarks, he was visibly taken aback when Hahn defended the president's questions.

Imagine that.  

Also imagine that if Obama had used those exact same words the media today would be telling us to all go buy hypo needles and inject lysol and Clorox because if Obutthole said it, it must be true.

COME ON PEOPLE FOR GOD'S SAKE.  TRY GIVING OUR PRESIDENT A BREAK HERE.  HE HAS MADE MISTAKES DURING ALL THIS, BUT AT LEAST HE DID NOT LET AMERICANS DIE IN DROVES AND GO PLAY GOLF IN HAWAII LIKE THE LAST POTUS DID DURING THE SWINE FLU.


----------



## Backyardski

EastTexFrank said:


> I agree with you on Biden.. That thought scares me.
> 
> 
> 
> That was me that said that.  I apologize.  I read it somewhere and didn't check or cross reference it.  It just shows you though how much misinformation and disinformation is out there.  Actually finding the "truth" isn't easy.



I totally agree. I consume more news than I should and  I try to stay away from the opinion news as there is a lot of inaccurate spin applied. There are many good sources that try to stay apolitical. The trouble comes when news orgs are defined by the opinion pieces. Just the facts would be the most helpful.



mla2ofus said:


> I think the experts are finding more people exposed and showing no symptoms than originally thought or estimated. I think all their models have been pulled out of someone's a$$ along with a cloud of smoke!!
> Mike



They started doing antibody testing here in New York State. Only 3000 tests thus far, so a small sample from the hardest hit state and found 20% had antibodies in NYC while the rest of the state had a rate around 3-4% of the sample population. For the people that haven’t been to NY, upstate is very rural and not a thing like the city. Our entire state has been locked up pretty tight for about 5 weeks, face coverings are required when interacting with the public.  Even if we were at 50% exposure one could roughly estimate at least another 50k will die.


----------



## Backyardski

Tiredretired,

He didn’t say to do it but he did say it was interesting and something that should be looked into, implying it might work. That would be fine at a meeting but not on national tv. If someone watching and heard the president say it, maybe they’d be concerned enough about Covid to try it. The FDA thought it was concerning enough to put a statement out saying not to do it.  He goes off on tangents, people listen. He should just read the teleprompter if he needs to have his face out there. A dude and his wife drank fish tank cleaner because it had a similarly spelled ingredient as chloroquine. He died and his wife almost did.

Just the facts would clear the message


----------



## tiredretired

Backyardski said:


> Tiredretired,
> 
> He didn’t say to do it but he did say it was interesting and something that should be looked into, implying it might work. That would be fine at a meeting but not on national tv. If someone watching and heard the president say it, maybe they’d be concerned enough about Covid to try it. The FDA thought it was concerning enough to put a statement out saying not to do it.  He goes off on tangents, people listen. He should just read the teleprompter if he needs to have his face out there. A dude and his wife drank fish tank cleaner because it had a similarly spelled ingredient as chloroquine. He died and his wife almost did.
> 
> Just the facts would clear the message



How about the guy who stared at that moldy slice of bread and said if there was a way to inject that into the blood stream it just might kill infections.

Well, someone did figure it out it, didn't they?

You are correct that maybe a presser was not the right time for conjecture, but we can all agree these are extrodinary (sp) times which require extrodinary circumstances?  Thinking outside the box, trying to grease the gears and get the brainiacs moving on unconventional things just might be the holy grail that saves us from ourselves.  

For all of Donald's shortcomings, there is no one right now that is going to step into his shoes and do a better job than he is doing.  That may be scary to some and gratifying to others, but it is the state of affairs right now.  We have one that shits himself and has no idea where he is and the other who thinks we should all be goose stepping to the tune of Lenin, Marx and Stalin.  

Thank you for candid and honest discussion.


----------



## Backyardski

TiredRetired said:


> How about the guy who stared at that moldy slice of bread and said if there was a way to inject that into the blood stream it just might kill infections.
> 
> Well, someone did figure it out it, didn't they?
> 
> You are correct that maybe a presser was not the right time for conjecture, but we can all agree these are extrodinary (sp) times which require extrodinary circumstances?  Thinking outside the box, trying to grease the gears and get the brainiacs moving on unconventional things just might be the holy grail that saves us from ourselves.
> 
> For all of Donald's shortcomings, there is no one right now that is going to step into his shoes and do a better job than he is doing.  That may be scary to some and gratifying to others, but it is the state of affairs right now.  We have one that shits himself and has no idea where he is and the other who thinks we should all be goose stepping to the tune of Lenin, Marx and Stalin.
> 
> Thank you for candid and honest discussion.



True, true. I just wish the polarity would ease up and balance out a little - especially during times like this. We need someone to lead the United States of America, not just the red or blue. All states have a mix of varying degrees and it sucks that +/- half are going to be pissed about who’s running the joint.

Strange days for sure. Stay well everyone 

Mike


----------



## tiredretired

Backyardski said:


> True, true. I just wish the polarity would ease up and balance out a little - especially during times like this. We need someone to lead the United States of America, not just the red or blue. All states have a mix of varying degrees and it sucks that +/- half are going to be pissed about who’s running the joint.
> 
> Strange days for sure. Stay well everyone
> 
> Mike



You as well.


----------



## Doc

This is from a link my sister sent me.  Interesting to outrageous.   

https://fromrome.info/2020/04/22/dr-judy-mikovitis-the-bat-origin-of-covid-19-is-not-likely/

*DR. JUDY MIKOVITIS: COVID-19 HAS PROBABLY BEEN IN ALL FLU VACCINES SINCE 2013/2015*
APRIL 22, 2020

Dr. Mikovitis, former virologist at the U.S. Biological Warfare Lab, explains some startling truths:

Wearing  a mask will make you sicker by forcing you to re-breathe the bacteria and viruses already in your respiratory system.

COVID-19 strain used in winter flu vaccines throughout the world since 2013

No test for COVID-19 is worthy of credence without at least another confirmatory results by a different kind of test
The only criteria for immunity is having the antibodies.

Never accept the COVID-19 vaccine.

You cannot catch a virus from coughing, it lives no more than 1 hour on surfaces.

COVID-19 is not lethal enough to cause any more than 0.8% of those infected seriously sick.

The Pandemic is a complete hoax being used to enslave humanity.

All vaccines will make some of those who receive them sick with the disease against which it was developed to prevent.

COVID-19 does not come from animal to human transfer, it was grown in a lab.

Winter flu vaccines is the only plausible explanation for world wide spread of COVID-19.

Being infected does not mean you are sick or infectious to others.

Symptoms are not a scientific way of diagnosing COVID-19.

Dr. Anthony Fauci has intervened to cover up study which proved that vaccinations cause cancer and other cancer causing viruses, in addition to Autism.

Polio vaccines transmitted cancer causing SIV & Sv40 virus.

The immunity granted by the U.S. Government in 1986 at the insistence of Dr. Anthony Fauci, to Vaccine manufacturers has made them dangerous, dirty and unsafe.

Every vaccine can cause in some persons a lethal immune response which can kill them.

The FDA is a criminal organization.

Korea responded by using the correct tests.

The USA is suffering from a plague of corruption in the Vaccine industry.

Vaccine Industry is systematically ending the production of safer medicines which would cure or prevent infection, because there is no money in preventing and curing disease.


----------



## Backyardski

There are a lot of conspiracy theories out there. 
Dr Mikovitis has been widely discredited in the past but who knows, maybe the rest of the scientific community is in on the cover up. She forgot to add 5G activation to the list and that Bill Gates invented it to track activity.  
It’s important to check sources and dig around. 

I’m going back downstairs to the snowcat section now...


----------



## Doc

Backyardski said:


> There are a lot of conspiracy theories out there.
> Dr Mikovitis has been widely discredited in the past but who knows, maybe the rest of the scientific community is in on the cover up. She forgot to add 5G activation to the list and that Bill Gates invented it to track activity.
> It’s important to check sources and dig around.
> 
> I’m going back downstairs to the snowcat section now...


Thanks Backyardski ..... I know nothing of her and did not search sources.  Found it interesting that it was from Rome and had religous pics on the web page.    Kinda glad to hear she has been discredited  ....


----------



## Backyardski

I just came back to grab my hat..

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judy_Mikovits

She’s mostly know for her anti vaccination stance. I know there are quite a few people that are antivax and it is their choice what they do with their children, but there’s a wealth of info about the risks-vs-benefits. Polio is gone, small pox is gone, hopefully Covid will take a hike too.

These pandemics have happened throughout history and hopefully we learn some lessons each time. It’s hard to accept something so tiny and unseen can make such a mess. It’s not anyone’s fault, and someone will find a solution. It sucks for the people out of work. It sucks not being as free as we were. It sucks for the people who die and their loved ones. At least it’s not Ebola or a zombie virus, that would be a real bitch.


----------



## Melensdad

This seems legit, well worth the 2 or 3 minutes it takes to watch  => https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hspw7Y1Gc5s&feature=youtu.be


----------



## Jim_S RIP

Melensdad said:


> This seems legit, well worth the 2 or 3 minutes it takes to watch  => https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hspw7Y1Gc5s&feature=youtu.be



One of the most accurate reports I’ve seen.   

:th_lmao:


----------



## Jim_S RIP

Backyardski said:


> I just came back to grab my hat..
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judy_Mikovits
> 
> She’s mostly know for her anti vaccination stance. I know there are quite a few people that are antivax and it is their choice what they do with their children, but there’s a wealth of info about the risks-vs-benefits. Polio is gone, small pox is gone, hopefully Covid will take a hike too.
> 
> These pandemics have happened throughout history and hopefully we learn some lessons each time. It’s hard to accept something so tiny and unseen can make such a mess. It’s not anyone’s fault, and someone will find a solution. It sucks for the people out of work. It sucks not being as free as we were. It sucks for the people who die and their loved ones. At least it’s not Ebola or a zombie virus, that would be a real bitch.



I’ll try to be polite.

That lady’s elevator doesn’t stop at all the floors!


----------



## tiredretired

I would say quarantine fatigue is gaining steam here.  We went for a short walk today before the rain/snow and car traffic continues to increase day by day. 

I have errands to run tomorrow and I am doing it.  I need to hit the Stihl dealer, tractor supply, buying some paint and Dollar General.  

Gotta find that happy medium between being careful and getting things done that need to get done.  In other words, than just being a home body and watching life go by.


----------



## m1west

Backyardski said:


> I just came back to grab my hat..
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judy_Mikovits
> 
> She’s mostly know for her anti vaccination stance. I know there are quite a few people that are antivax and it is their choice what they do with their children, but there’s a wealth of info about the risks-vs-benefits. Polio is gone, small pox is gone, hopefully Covid will take a hike too.
> 
> These pandemics have happened throughout history and hopefully we learn some lessons each time. It’s hard to accept something so tiny and unseen can make such a mess. It’s not anyone’s fault, and someone will find a solution. It sucks for the people out of work. It sucks not being as free as we were. It sucks for the people who die and their loved ones. At least it’s not Ebola or a zombie virus, that would be a real bitch.



Might not be anyone's fault but China did a very good job of spreading it around the world before our President did the right thing before anyone else in the world and shut them off.


----------



## tiredretired

jim slagle said:


> *I’ll try to be polite.*
> 
> That lady’s elevator doesn’t stop at all the floors!



What the hell does that mean?  :th_lmao:


----------



## Backyardski

Yes it originated in China but as NY gov Cuomo likes to say, at the time of the China ban the horse had already left the barn. Cuomo is a guy I didn’t really care too much for before this, but as far as laying out the bare truth and facts about this situation he has been spot on. It might have been Friday’s briefing that he relayed the info that most cases in NY had mutations in the virus that indicated they came from Europe. China first, mutate, spread to Europe and introduced to the East coast where most flights from Europe land. The strain from China is the predominant one found on the West coast, where most flights from China land. I forget the exact number but the were somewhere around 2.4 million people traveling from Europe to NY from the time of the China ban until the Europe ban. Nobody saw that coming, not Trump’s fault. Another of Cuomo’s lines was if a virus gets on a plane in China tonight it can be anywhere in the world by morning. Half of infected people have zero symptoms, you can’t screen them. The ones that do develop symptoms can be asymptotic for 14 day while spreading it the whole time. 

This article discusses the viral mutations 
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/04/200409085644.htm

I said polio was eradicated in an earlier post, that was incorrect. My wife informed me that it still exists in Afghanistan. Also Nigeria and Pakistan it turns out
https://www.cdc.gov/polio/progress/index.htm


----------



## mla2ofus

Wisconsin needs to send cuomo several wheels of cheese to go with all of his whine!!
Mike


----------



## m1west

Backyardski said:


> Yes it originated in China but as NY gov Cuomo likes to say, at the time of the China ban the horse had already left the barn. Cuomo is a guy I didn’t really care too much for before this, but as far as laying out the bare truth and facts about this situation he has been spot on. It might have been Friday’s briefing that he relayed the info that most cases in NY had mutations in the virus that indicated they came from Europe. China first, mutate, spread to Europe and introduced to the East coast where most flights from Europe land. The strain from China is the predominant one found on the West coast, where most flights from China land. I forget the exact number but the were somewhere around 2.4 million people traveling from Europe to NY from the time of the China ban until the Europe ban. Nobody saw that coming, not Trump’s fault. Another of Cuomo’s lines was if a virus gets on a plane in China tonight it can be anywhere in the world by morning. Half of infected people have zero symptoms, you can’t screen them. The ones that do develop symptoms can be asymptotic for 14 day while spreading it the whole time.
> 
> This article discusses the viral mutations
> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/04/200409085644.htm
> 
> I said polio was eradicated in an earlier post, that was incorrect. My wife informed me that it still exists in Afghanistan. Also Nigeria and Pakistan it turns out
> https://www.cdc.gov/polio/progress/index.htm



I remember seeing Cuomo on TV  after the China travel ban encouraging everyone to go out to the bars and restaurants while in China town. Another thing The POS did was force Convalescent hospitals to take COVID patients, then half of the old folks died.


----------



## m1west

Backyardski said:


> Yes it originated in China but as NY gov Cuomo likes to say, at the time of the China ban the horse had already left the barn. Cuomo is a guy I didn’t really care too much for before this, but as far as laying out the bare truth and facts about this situation he has been spot on. It might have been Friday’s briefing that he relayed the info that most cases in NY had mutations in the virus that indicated they came from Europe. China first, mutate, spread to Europe and introduced to the East coast where most flights from Europe land. The strain from China is the predominant one found on the West coast, where most flights from China land. I forget the exact number but the were somewhere around 2.4 million people traveling from Europe to NY from the time of the China ban until the Europe ban. Nobody saw that coming, not Trump’s fault. Another of Cuomo’s lines was if a virus gets on a plane in China tonight it can be anywhere in the world by morning. Half of infected people have zero symptoms, you can’t screen them. The ones that do develop symptoms can be asymptotic for 14 day while spreading it the whole time.
> 
> This article discusses the viral mutations
> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/04/200409085644.htm
> 
> I said polio was eradicated in an earlier post, that was incorrect. My wife informed me that it still exists in Afghanistan. Also Nigeria and Pakistan it turns out
> https://www.cdc.gov/polio/progress/index.htm



In this case I don't think it mutated. I think it has to do with population density of NYC and West coast folks lead a healthier life style and tend to not smoke.


----------



## Jim_S RIP

TiredRetired said:


> What the hell does that mean?  :th_lmao:



Her mind isn’t all there :th_lmao:

Variation on “her elevator doesn’t go all the way to the top floor”


----------



## Backyardski

m1west said:


> I remember seeing Cuomo on TV  after the China travel ban encouraging everyone to go out to the bars and restaurants while in China town. Another thing The POS did was force Convalescent hospitals to take COVID patients, then half of the old folks died.



I didn’t see or hear that about the bars and restaurants in China town so I can’t really comment on it. I’m guessing people were crying racism? In retrospect there were a lot of mistakes early on, everything should have been sealed off probably back in December.

I’ll have to read up on the nursing home situation, I hadn’t heard much beside the fact that there have been many deaths in nursing homes. and patients were returned after being discharged because the hospitals needed the room. That may have been before they were able to test everyone?  I don’t know if there was another option at the time, or now for that matter. I’m sure that will be investigated and more rules and regulations added, NY is known for that


The virus mutation didn’t make it more harmful, but rather it was a way they were able to trace it’s origins. The science daily article explains that, not a very exciting article to read though. Density was definitely a reason for all of the cases in NYC. That place is crowded and filthy, not sure how they’ll reopen. Risk factors? We’ll have to wait for the stats on that



mla2ofus said:


> Wisconsin needs to send cuomo several wheels of cheese to go with all of his whine!!
> Mike



I grew up in Wisconsin, definitely great cheese. Supposedly the wine in the finger lakes near here is great too but I prefer beer. 

As far as whine goes, I didn’t say I agree with his politics, just that he’s been straight forward with what has been happening here. NY closed up early, the curve flattened and is on the decline. It hasn’t been fun but hasn’t been as bad as projected either. Did they go too far by including upstate, maybe. Did they close more than they should have, maybe. There was 1 case in Rochester 6 weeks ago, 106 deaths as of today, 30 patients in the icu. It doesn’t take much mingling to pass around. 

There really is a lot of information to process. I go between thinking it’s all over blown, to thinking this is some really bad shit that is going to keep flaring up for a long time. Time will tell. Georgia should be a good indicator of what’s to come. Seems like we should be getting more information from China and Italy than we have been.

Not sure what I got myself into up here...


----------



## EastTexFrank

You got yourself in to an interesting discussion, that's what you did.

Our county confirmed case count sat at six for almost two weeks.  Towards the ends of last week it went up to seven and I know this one.  He is male, in his 40s, the minister at a local Baptist Church and the principal of one of the county's high schools.  Seeing and hearing how lax things have become I'd not be surprised to hear of an increase in cases over the next too weeks.

I have some shopping to do tomorrow so I'll be making one of my rare visits to town and see things for myself.  If it's anything like my last visit, I'll be home in about 30 minutes.


----------



## Backyardski

I suppose I did.

Here is an article about the nursing home situation from March 31. This was before Javits center was set up and there were 3000 additional people per day requiring hospitalization. I don’t think anyone felt good about making that decision. Those are the most vulnerable people and are in close quarters. I’m not sure what other options there could have been with that volume of patients and the projected volume at the time. There are still over 1000 people a day being admitted in NY

https://www.google.com/amp/s/khn.or...flict-between-hospital-and-nursing-homes/amp/

The same thing is happening at nursing homes across the country and world, there hasn’t been a solution to keeping that population safe. That is the reason for trying to slow the spread, to prevent greater death.


----------



## m1west

Cuomo, Bottom line is he is a leftie schmuck, he helped create the situation by telling everyone it was nothing early on. Then when it blew up in his face he started blaming everyone else that NY was not prepared for the situation. Out here in Ca. we just got lucky some how because our governor is as incompetent as yours. Now they want billions of federal dollars to cover years of failed policies. Like pensions. Funny all the big hotspots are in Leftie strongholds.


----------



## Melensdad

Backyardski said:


> ...
> 
> The same thing is happening at nursing homes across the country and world, there hasn’t been a solution to keeping that population safe. That is the reason for trying to slow the spread,* to prevent greater death.*



Sorry but this is factually incorrect.

Slowing the spread was never to prevent greater death.  It was to prevent the healthcare system from being overrun.  

We know that, depending upon age and underlying conditions, there is essentially nothing that can be done to effectively treat those with Covid-19.  

Elderly (_dramatic death rates for those over 70_) are at risk.

High blood pressure ... obesity ... type 2 diabetes ... all have dramatically higher risk fo death.  

They can't stop that.  What the slowing the spread, flattening the curve, etc does is it prevents people from dying in the hospital parking lots and hallways and allows them to die in a hospital bed.  One only has to go back to the early government warnings and political press conferences to see that "flattening the curve" was designed to prevent over-running hospitals and not to actually reduce the deaths.  The charts used by our government(s) clearly showed the cases and deaths would simply be spread over a longer time line.


----------



## Backyardski

m1west said:


> Cuomo, Bottom line is he is a leftie schmuck, he helped create the situation by telling everyone it was nothing early on. Then when it blew up in his face he started blaming everyone else that NY was not prepared for the situation. Out here in Ca. we just got lucky some how because our governor is as incompetent as yours. Now they want billions of federal dollars to cover years of failed policies. Like pensions. Funny all the big hotspots are in Leftie strongholds.



Again, not a fan of his politics, but he wasn’t alone in underestimating the situation,  the President, Larry Cudlo (sp?) etc said it was under control, sealed up, 15 cases soon to be none. That was all happening at the same time. Rear view mirror stuff.

My wife and I went to Sun Valley for the awesome snowcat gathering on 3/12, we were in Denver waiting for a flight when they canceled the ncaa tourney. People were just starting to worry then. Planes were full. On the way back on the 16th everyone was wiping down their seats and a few wore masks. There was a huge gathering of skiers the week before that ended up coming down with Covid,not sure how we all avoided it there. Yes a lefty mag but I read the story because we were just there.  I read righty stories on my news feed too.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ne...-the-highest-covid-19-rates-in-the-nation/amp

The big outbreaks are in large cities with international airports and higher density, connecting flights spread it throughout the country.

As far as the bailout of blue states goes, that’s a bunch of horse poop. As Andy said, NY tax payers annually put 116 billion more federal tax dollars into the federal pot than they get back. Number one in the nation as far as that goes. McConnell said to let NY go bankrupt, Kentucky takes 148 billion dollars more than they pay in Federal taxes. There are a shit-ton of Republicans tax payers in NY that would most likely argue the same point, unless they wouldn’t to toe the line with the party. Just because a state goes blue or red doesn’t mean it’s only blue or red people living there. That was the reason I jumped into the discussion, it is really stupid Covid became a political issue, it doesn’t care.


----------



## Backyardski

Melensdad said:


> Sorry but this is factually incorrect.
> 
> Slowing the spread was never to prevent greater death.  It was to prevent the healthcare system from being overrun.
> 
> We know that, depending upon age and underlying conditions, there is essentially nothing that can be done to effectively treat those with Covid-19.
> 
> Elderly (_dramatic death rates for those over 70_) are at risk.
> 
> High blood pressure ... obesity ... type 2 diabetes ... all have dramatically higher risk fo death.
> 
> They can't stop that.  What the slowing the spread, flattening the curve, etc does is it prevents people from dying in the hospital parking lots and hallways and allows them to die in a hospital bed.  One only has to go back to the early government warnings and political press conferences to see that "flattening the curve" was designed to prevent over-running hospitals and not to actually reduce the deaths.  The charts used by our government(s) clearly showed the cases and deaths would simply be spread over a longer time line.



Ok, poor word choice I suppose, but over-running the system prevents medical care of people that would otherwise be admitted and survive, which results in more deaths.


----------



## Melensdad

Backyardski said:


> Ok, poor word choice I suppose, but over-running the system prevents treatment of people* that would otherwise be treated and survive,* which results in more deaths.



There is no treatment.  At least not yet.  

No evidence that anti-malarial work.  No evidence that other drugs work.  Seems more likely (statistically) that most people get better no matter what happens and some people die, no matter what care they receive.


----------



## Backyardski

It got to the point in parts of Italy that if you were over 60 you weren’t getting care, many of those people would have survived. Their system was overrun


----------



## m1west

Backyardski said:


> Again, not a fan of his politics, but he wasn’t alone in underestimating the situation,  the President, Larry Cudlo (sp?) etc said it was under control, sealed up, 15 cases soon to be none. That was all happening at the same time. Rear view mirror stuff.
> 
> My wife and I went to Sun Valley for the awesome snowcat gathering on 3/12, we were in Denver waiting for a flight when they canceled the ncaa tourney. People were just starting to worry then. Planes were full. On the way back on the 16th everyone was wiping down their seats and a few wore masks. There was a huge gathering of skiers the week before that ended up coming down with Covid,not sure how we all avoided it there. Yes a lefty mag but I read the story because we were just there.  I read righty stories on my news feed too.
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ne...-the-highest-covid-19-rates-in-the-nation/amp
> 
> The big outbreaks are in large cities with international airports and higher density, connecting flights spread it throughout the country.
> 
> As far as the bailout of blue states goes, that’s a bunch of horse poop. As Andy said, NY tax payers annually put 116 billion more federal tax dollars into the federal pot than they get back. Number one in the nation as far as that goes. McConnell said to let NY go bankrupt, Kentucky takes 148 billion dollars more than they pay in Federal taxes. There are a shit-ton of Republicans tax payers in NY that would most likely argue the same point, unless they wouldn’t to toe the line with the party. Just because a state goes blue or red doesn’t mean it’s only blue or red people living there. That was the reason I jumped into the discussion, it is really stupid Covid became a political issue, it doesn’t care.



They were saying that then because China, WHO, CDC and everyone else was saying that because China was withholding and distorting information with The WHO backing them up. The Wuhan virus became political because of folks like Cuomo demanding 30,000 ventilators and making accusations against others. You are correct in one area it shouldn't be political, but you are a willing participant. This discussion should go to the political discussion thread.


----------



## Backyardski

Melensdad said:


> There is no treatment.  At least not yet.
> 
> No evidence that anti-malarial work.  No evidence that other drugs work.  Seems more likely (statistically) that most people get better no matter what happens and some people die, no matter what care they receive.



Oxygen helps most that get admitted and a ventilator will save 20% that go on one


----------



## Backyardski

m1west said:


> They were saying that then because China, WHO, CDC and everyone else was saying that because China was withholding and distorting information with The WHO backing them up. The Wuhan virus became political because of folks like Cuomo demanding 30,000 ventilators and making accusations against others. You are correct in one area it shouldn't be political, but you are a willing participant. This discussion should go to the political discussion thread.



Yup, lack of info let it get away from the whole planet. 
Projections were that NY would need that many vents, great that they weren’t needed. He would have been negligent to not try to get the vents they were saying NY would need. He didn’t come up with that number.

I cited Cuomo because he’s the Gov here doing the updates which have been easy to understand as of late. I don’t have any desire to defend him politically, just trying to get a handle on what’s happening and what’s to come. I also said that Trump’s  disinformation was dangerous and not so helpful. Straight talk would unite the country, calling it a democrat hoax doesn’t. He could be a great leader if he cut the partisan bs. I understand the appeal of having a guy that bashes the other side but it’s really counter productive. Aside from that I’ve just been trying to reply, it’s a bit exhausting and not really my favorite thing to do. I figured I’d be stepping in it a little but it’s also great to hear where others are coming from.


----------



## Melensdad

Backyardski said:


> Oxygen helps most that get admitted and a ventilator will save 20% that go on one


There is evidence to suggest that neither treatment saves lives.  There is evidence that patients who get nothing survive.  There is evidence that people who get aid survive.  The actual evidence seems to be so mixed that, as of yet, there is no known treatment that will 'save' anyone.

And I'm not trying to be argumentative.  But the fact is that there is no study saying ventilators have been absolutely proven to actually save any significant % of the population that would not have recovered without it.


----------



## pirate_girl

Now H2 blockers (histamine) are being looked into as a way to treat the virus, in high doses.
I don't know about that.


----------



## Backyardski

Melensdad said:


> There is evidence to suggest that neither treatment saves lives.  There is evidence that patients who get nothing survive.  There is evidence that people who get aid survive.  The actual evidence seems to be so mixed that, as of yet, there is no known treatment that will 'save' anyone.
> 
> And I'm not trying to be argumentative.  But the fact is that there is no study saying ventilators have been absolutely proven to actually save any significant % of the population that would not have recovered without it.



That’s the most frustrating thing about this whole deal, the information is really all over the board. If this is the case, why are they building 100,000 ventilators? 
It seems to me nobody really has a clue about this disease, or the ones that do are getting drowned out with all of the noise. I hadn’t heard about the ineffectiveness of the vents, only that 20% that go on are coming off alive. They might be doing more harm than good according to this article
What a mess

https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/08/doctors-say-ventilators-overused-for-covid-19/

I’m going to drop out of the discussion, clearly not my field of expertise. Stay well and positive everyone, hopefully everything will get figured out sooner than later!


----------



## pirate_girl

Sounds like Gov. DeWine is calling for just about everything to reopen in Ohio on May 4th.
Stipulations are to wear masks, while others can work from home??(just to add more to the already confused state of the situation).


----------



## pirate_girl




----------



## Jim_S RIP

Texas' stay-at-home order to expire Thursday, businesses to reopen in phases starting Friday
By Andrew O'Reilly | Fox News

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/te...nd-friday-with-businesses-reopening-in-phases

Texas Gov. Greg Abbott detailed plans on Monday to reopen the state for business amid the coronavirus pandemic – allowing places like retail stores, restaurants and movie theaters to open up to customers at a limited capacity by Friday May 1.

The move by Abbot puts Texas – the country’s second largest economy behind California – at the forefront of the movement to reopen state economies that have been basically brought to a standstill as the U.S. grapples with the outbreak of COVID-19.

“We’re not just going to pen up and hope for the best,” Abbott said during a news conference on Monday in Austin. “We’re going to open in way that will also contain the virus and keep us safe.”

He added: "A more strategic approach is required so that we don’t open only to close down again.”

Along with retail stores, restaurants and movie theaters, Abbott said that museums and libraries can also reopen on Friday at a 25 percent capacity. Sole proprietors of businesses can also open and doctors and dentists can resume normal operations as well.

Abbott added that hospitals will still have to keep 50 percent of their capacity for patients suffering from COVID-19.

Churches and places of worship, which were allowed to remain open during the state’s stay-at-home orders, are also allowed to expand their capacity provided safe social distancing measures are still enacted.

Barber shops, hair salons and bars will still remain closed.

The governor’s plan, which he said has the backing of both state and federal health officials, is part of larger strategy in Texas to gradually reopen businesses. Abbott noted that by May 18, if there are no new spikes of contagion in Texas than he will move on to phases two of the plan, which almost businesses to operate at 50 percent capacity.

“We will open in a way that employs safe standards,” he said, noting that places like China and Singapore have seen a second wave of infections after reopening too early. “There is a reason why all businesses in Texas can’t reopen all at once.”

Texas, which has so far seen 25,297 confirmed cases of the novel coronavirus with 663 deaths, is one of a number states that have opened up or have plans to soon open their economies.

Mississippi lifted its stay-at-home orders and is alloweing businesses to operate at 50 percent capacity. Montana is permitting retail businesses to become operational if they can adhere to requirements to limit capacity and maintain strict physical distancing and in Tennessee, restaurants are able to reopen at 50 percent occupancy.

Arkansas, Indiana and Iowa are allowing elective surgeries to take place, while Kentucky is permitting non-urgent/emergent health care services, diagnostic radiology and lab services to take place in limited settings and Indiana . Also, Colorado is letting retail stores to open for curbside deliveries.

Minnesota is now letting industrial, manufacturing and office-based businesses that are not customer-facing" to return to work.

Abbott’s announcement comes as the Trump administration is drawing up new guidelines for how restaurants, schools, churches and businesses can safely reopen nationwide. A draft of the White House’s plan includes suggestions such as closing break rooms at offices, using disposable menus in restaurants and having students eat lunch in their classrooms.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.


----------



## Backyardski

I know the briefing is still going on but I felt I needed to get this down before I got ripped. 
Today’s briefing is 100% better than the previous briefings. 
President Trump took control and was the leader that we need right now. He needs to stay above the fray and continue like this.


----------



## Melensdad

Backyardski said:


> I know the briefing is still going on but I felt I needed to get this down before I got ripped.
> Today’s briefing is 100% better than the previous briefings.
> President Trump took control and was the leader that we need right now. He needs to stay above the fray and continue like this.



I agree 

I actually watched from the start but switched a few minutes ago as the reporters starting asking questions about Biden, etc.  I wanted the COVID update, not sure why the reporters have to constantly go off topic.


----------



## tiredretired

Melensdad said:


> I agree
> 
> I actually watched from the start but switched a few minutes ago as the reporters starting asking questions about Biden, etc.  I wanted the COVID update, *not sure why the reporters have to constantly go off topic.*



Because they have the intelligence and attention span of a slug?


----------



## pirate_girl

I don't understand why all the sudden face masks are mandatory for anyone going out in public.
This probably should have been the case months ago.
Dear America,
We're doing too much too late OR something unnecessary.
Welcome to the assbackward time in history.


----------



## pirate_girl




----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Face masks are sanitary theater for most of the population.  90% of the people don't know how to use them and are re-using nasty dirty masks that if anything are bacteria traps.  The same people are still picking their asses and then fondling the food at the grocery store.

Fuck the mandatory masks.  Fuck mandatory anything.


----------



## tiredretired

PBinWA said:


> Face masks are sanitary theater for most of the population.  90% of the people don't know how to use them and are re-using nasty dirty masks that if anything are bacteria traps.  The same people are still picking their asses and then fondling the food at the grocery store.
> 
> *Fuck the mandatory masks.  Fuck mandatory anything*.



They started losing me in all this when the left started politicizing HCQ, just because Trump was supporting it.  It made no difference to them if it worked or not, if Trump supported it, then they did not.  It made no difference to them if it saved lives or not.  This was to be all political.  That is when they lost me.

Remember, at first, they said DO NOT WEAR MASKS. THEY DO NOT WORK!!!  I started questioning why health care workers would wasted their time wearing something that was useless.  Well, we all know that is not the case, so what the hell is up now?  

Meanwhile, the lies, deceit. conflicting misinformation and disinformation continue unabated.


----------



## mla2ofus

I think Fauci and co. have sold us a bill of goods. Now they find there were far more that had it with no symptoms. IMO they've all been shooting in the dark and presenting what they found as facts.
Mike


----------



## EastTexFrank

PBinWA said:


> Fuck the mandatory masks.  Fuck mandatory anything.



I had a breakout day today and went to town twice.  Okay, I didn't spend 30 minutes in total in there but I think people have already said that enough is enough.  I wore a mask but in the two places I was in I only saw one other person was wearing one.  Nobody who worked in either of the places wore a mask.  There was some cursory notice of social distancing but let's say that it was pretty fluid.


----------



## m1west

Interesting read, sorry for the screen shot but I can't figure out how to post a link on this site. Anyway it goes on to explain how Faucci and Gates have filed a Patent  together on a cure for the virus and stand to make millions or billions. Can you say conflict of interest.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

m1west said:


> Interesting read, sorry for the screen shot but I can't figure out how to post a link on this site. Anyway it goes on to explain how Faucci and Gates have filed a Patent  together on a cure for the virus and stand to make millions or billions. Can you say conflict of interest.




I posted a long article that goes into Faucci's conflict of interest on here somewhere.  He has a huge conflict of interest - as do most of the politicians involved.

The whole thing is stupid political.


----------



## road squawker

TiredRetired said:


> ... edit...Meanwhile, the lies, deceit. conflicting misinformation and disinformation continue unabated.



I REALLY find it hard to believe that the U.S. has about 25% of the worlds deaths.

I've been in many 3rd world Sh4t Ho&e countries, and there is no way anything really contagious wouldn't affect them


----------



## Bannedjoe

EastTexFrank said:


> I had a breakout day today and went to town twice.  Okay, I didn't spend 30 minutes in total in there but I think people have already said that enough is enough.  I wore a mask but in the two places I was in I only saw one other person was wearing one.  Nobody who worked in either of the places wore a mask.  There was some cursory notice of social distancing but let's say that it was pretty fluid.



I gave the homedopes another cash infusion today.

Indeed more people are out and about.
For the fist time since this BS, I had to wait outside in line to get in.

It didn't take long, but still, it was a first.

I stopped for fuel at the Petro on the way home, for some diesel.
The pump said they were out of premium, and midgrade, and my diesel pump stopped @ 4.5 gals?

I hung up and started it again, but no fuel.
Maybe I got the last of it?

Weird.

I'm just not getting along with the new world very well.

Even though I'm not down in it every day, I'm becoming awfully cranky and irritable.


----------



## Backyardski

I’m not sure if this has been posted before but has the most recent events if so.
It makes more sense to scroll to the bottom and go up in chronological order.


https://www.thinkglobalhealth.org/article/updated-timeline-coronavirus


----------



## Bannedjoe

Insanity.

A guy from down in town came up to help me install a door today on his day off.
He works at a gas station in our miniscule town.

He told me all the regular employees are quitting left and right.
I asked him why?

He said everyone is quitting so they can collect unemployment, which will compensate their full wages, plus a covid based government addition of $600 a week for many months to come.

Hell, when you can make more sitting at home than actually working, I guess I'd quit too, then just go back when the free money ends.

I can't even wrap my head around this shit.


----------



## pirate_girl

Bannedjoe said:


> I can't even wrap my head around this shit.


Not many people can.

Even those of us in healthcare are just getting plain tired of this whole thing.
I've felt that something very strange has been going on from the beginning.
My life is on auto pilot until the bullshit ends.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Bannedjoe said:


> Insanity.
> 
> A guy from down in town came up to help me install a door today on his day off.
> He works at a gas station in our miniscule town.
> 
> He told me all the regular employees are quitting left and right.
> I asked him why?
> 
> He said everyone is quitting so they can collect unemployment, which will compensate their full wages, plus a covid based government addition of $600 a week for many months to come.
> 
> Hell, when you can make more sitting at home than actually working, I guess I'd quit too, then just go back when the free money ends.
> 
> I can't even wrap my head around this shit.




The worst thing is that we are doing this to ourselves.  But it has been a long time coming.

This may be the end of the Republic as we know it - although I would argue the "Republic" has been dying since the 70's.


----------



## bczoom

Since when could someone who quit collect unemployment?
I thought you could only collect if the employer let you go.


----------



## Bannedjoe

bczoom said:


> Since when could someone who quit collect unemployment?
> I thought you could only collect if the employer let you go.


Not sure.
Maybe you can quit these days under fear for your health.


----------



## Backyardski

pirate_girl said:


> My life is on auto pilot until the bullshit ends.



I think autopilot is the only answer at this point. 
I’ve been a little ocd with going through timelines and reading news stories. All have a political bias pointing left or right. It’s not our fault it’s yours. No it’s your fault. No, it’s WHO’s fault. No, China is to blame. No, that’s racist. No, Cuomo didn’t act fast enough. No, Trump was warned early January. No, he closed China travel. No, it came from Europe via China. And on and on. 

I’ve decided mistakes were made by all, no one acted fast enough, no one saw it coming, no one knows how bad it really is, was, is going to be, could have been, or the right way out. Blame everyone or no one. Thank the people that keep things going.

Trying to use confirmed cases as a basis for any understanding is stupid unless there were test results for everyone, Im tired of hearing that statistic. Deaths can be counted but that doesn’t tell us if the person was a day, week, month or years away from dying. There are too many variables to have a real understanding. It kills some people, most it doesn’t. It seems to be easily transmitted and can overwhelm hospitals, that has been figured out. 

There are people that are getting really rich off this and there are a lot more people that are getting poor. I know this suggestion sounds communistic but the people that are profiting off this should be the ones that pay for this. I’m sure amazon has been raking it in with that being the only option to buy a lot of items. I read a story this morning that NY paid some guy 68 million for ventilators and received none, that should be life in prison or the death penalty for scamming during a crisis.
I need to give up on trying to make sense of it, waste of time and energy. Totally out of my control. I’ll wear my stupid mask so I can go in the store. Maybe that might prevent something somewhere. Ill take care of my orchard and garden and chickens and boys. I’ll be happy to do work on my house and property. I’m thankful I don’t live in a city, that wouldn’t be cool. 

If I post anything else about Covid or politics please tell me to go back to the snowcat section. That I’ll only look at a couple of times in a day.

Thanks for letting me throw my thoughts around

Mike


----------



## road squawker

bczoom said:


> Since when could someone who quit collect unemployment?
> I thought you could only collect if the employer let you go.



They can just stay home and refuse to work,... and the companythen fires them


----------



## EastTexFrank

I agree with almost everything Backyardski said.  I thought that it was a very eloquent response to the position we all find ourselves in.  

One thing that is pissing me off right now are the counties in Texas and elsewhere who report "confirmed corona virus cases" and not "active corona virus cases".  Seven weeks in to this thing, "confirmed corona virus cases" is a totally meaningless number.  

My county is as guilty as all the rest.  The count as of today stands at 9 confirmed cases in Wood County.  Since I was goofing off all day I decided to do some research and make some phone calls.  It seems that of those 9 "confirmed cases" in a population of 45K, 5 of them have already been treated and confirmed as virus free and released from quarantine.  That only leaves 4 active cases in the whole county.  That's what we are all panicked about.  Now, I agree that people like me, who are in the super high risk and high risk groups, should still take precautions but that hardly seems reason enough to shut down the whole county and destroy people's livelihood and quality of life.

Just my bitch for today.


----------



## Jim_S RIP

> One thing that is pissing me off right now are the counties in Texas and elsewhere who report "confirmed corona virus cases" and not "active corona virus cases". Seven weeks in to this thing, "confirmed corona virus cases" is a totally meaningless number.



There are 3 confirmed cases shown in my county. They went to a Doctor in another county who confirmed their infection. They’re reported against my county because they said they live here. No telling where they were when they got sick. Rumor is they are members of the same family.


----------



## mla2ofus

We have had one case in our county. Don't know if she tested positive or was just symptomatic. These heavy handed governors are going to back themselves into a put up or shut up corner. Newsome is just asking for it by shutting down the beaches in just one county. DeBlasio's handling of the Jewish funeral was ludicrous. I think some of them want to cause a civil war!!
Mike


----------



## pirate_girl

Yay...


----------



## EastTexFrank

pirate_girl said:


> View attachment 126199
> 
> Yay...



PG, I'm not sure that the people will stand for another 4 weeks of "shelter in place".  

At this point I think that we have moved well beyond "for the safety of the people" and we've moved in to the "destroy the Trump economy" and keep it in the dumpster for as long as possible so that the Dems have a chance of the White House in November.  I'm beginning to think that it's part of a bigger plan.  Nancy never misses an opportunity.  

Texas starts opening up today.  I talked to my friend who owns the BBQ place in town.  He's excited but the virus didn't hit him too hard as 60% to 70% of his business was take-out anyway.  He thought that initially he would be allowed 25% occupancy but the city informed him that since the County has so few cases he is allowed 50% occupancy.  He was scrabbling around trying to find picnic tables and chairs to put out on the sidewalk and increase that number.  

I can see Wings Wednesday and a craft beer on the horizon.  Perhaps not.  I'll get my wife to go in to town and bring some home.  I still intend to hang out at the house for another couple of weeks and see what happens.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

It's not just you guys. They've got us by the short and curly's up here too. Though they just announced phase 1 of reopening the province is starting Monday allowing certain businesses to open.

Our 16 year old got a call from his boss today to come in on Monday. Restaurants can still only do delivery and curbside pickup for now but they want him to do some training I guess for when they can fully reopen.


----------



## Melensdad

Indiana is starting a SLOW reopening.  5 phases.  Some counties will be delayed, including mine.  Most counties will begin reopening on May 4.

The state is under Phase 1, which has the most restrictions.  But starting Monday most counties, with the exception of the Indianapolis Metro area, plus a couple others, move to Phase 2.  One of the keys to this reopening is that Indiana contracted with a private company that will begin testing.  We are projected to be able to have 100,000 tests PER MONTH, in Indiana, by June.  That will be interesting to see if that happens.

In the details, *people over 65 and/or people who are "at risk"* are to self isolate or take stronger social distancing measures for personal protection.  It is very clear that the state is managing hospital resources, not health.  So we are building our way toward "*herd immunity*" by managing _the rate at which our citizen die off_ from Covid.  *But those over 65, and those "at risk" really are just waiting for a vaccine and need to try to stay healthy until a vaccine comes out.
*
*Details* here => https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.tow...-5643-8db8-b82f381ea446/5eac69badd8bd.pdf.pdf

Here is a *SUMMARY* of key points from the Indianapolis Star newspaper:  https://www.indystar.com/story/news...rned-governor-eric-holcomb-update/3060909001/
Check the link for the full story!


> Here's what Holcomb said about reopening:
> 
> 
> Holcomb said the state is using four principles to inform its reopening strategy: evidence of a 14-day decrease in the number of hospitalized patients, retaining the capacity of ICU beds and ventilators, the ability to test all Hoosiers who show symptoms of COVID-19, and the ability to contact trace all cases. The governor said the state has either met these principles are has ramped up efforts to do so.
> Holcomb said *reopening will happen in five stages, with the goal of having the state “back on track” by July 4.** He cautioned that the plan is subject to change.*
> Stage 1 is the phase we have been in since mid-March. In this phase, essential manufacturing, construction, infrastructure, government, business and other critical operations remain open. Schools remain closed.
> Stage 2 will begin on Monday, May 4 for most counties. Marion and Lake Counties can begin Stage 2 on May 11. Cass County can start Stage 2 on May 18. The stage includes: Those 65 and older or high-risk should remain at home as much as possible. Social gatherings can increase to 25 people. Restaurants can open at 50% capacity starting May 11. Essential travel restrictions will be lifted. Remaining manufacturers that were not considered essential will be able to open. Retail and commercial businesses will open at 50% capacity.
> While state rules would allow  Indianapolis to begin Phase 2 on May 11, a stay-at-home order for Marion County extends through May 15.
> *​Restaurants and bars that serve food may open for dine-in starting May 11 at 50% capacity*, but bar seating will remain closed.
> Personal services such as hair salons and tattoo parlors can begin to open May 11 *by appointment only*. They must follow social distancing guidelines.
> Those who work in office settings are encouraged to work remotely whenever possible.
> Starting May 8, for all counties, Indiana worship services may convene, with social distancing, though virtual or drive-in services are still encouraged. *Those 65 and older are asked to stay home. *
> On May 24, Stage 3 may begin: *Those who are high-risk may venture out, cautiously.* Those who can work remotely should continue to do so. Social gatherings of up to 100 people may occur. Retail stores and malls can go up to 75% capacity. Movie theaters can operate at 50% capacity.
> If still on track, the state can move to *Stage 4 by June 14. Face coverings will be optional.* Zoos and museums can open at 50% capacity. Social gatherings of up to 250 will be allowed. State government buildings will reopen to the public. Office employees can resume work at full capacity. Retail can open at full capacity. Dining service can open at 75% capacity. Recreational sports and leagues can resume.
> Stage 5 would begin *July 4*. Fairs, festivals and sporting events can resume, with social distancing guidelines. Remote work will still be optional. Retails stores, gyms, personal services and dining can operate at full capacity. Restrictions will be lifted at amusement parks and like facilities.
> 
> [*]At Stage 5, the state will decide how to approach the next school year.
> 
> 
> “Now comes the hard part,” Holcomb said. *He said the plan will require “constant vigilance” from everyone, adding the number of cases will likely continue to increase.* If the four principles aren’t met, the plan could change. “This is up to each and every one of us,” he said.
> Holcomb said the point of the stay-at-home order was to make sure the state has the ability to treat patients, which requires slowing the spread of the virus. _*“Our effort going forward will be all about managing through this crisis. I’m praying for a vaccine but we gotta do what we can do right now.”*_ Indiana State Department of Health Chief Medical Officer Lindsay Weaver added that the stay-at-home measures also protected those most at risk and helped hospitals prepare.
> Holcomb said the state will support local municipalities – like Marion County and Indianapolis -- that make different reopening decisions based on their specific needs and data. The governor’s general counsel said, per state law, _local communities can be more strict in their requirements _than the state.
> On the counties that will not enter Stage 2 on Monday, including Marion County, Weaver said the state has taken into consideration the referral patterns between hospitals. *Officials also looked at the capacity of hospitals in those areas to make sure they can handle an influx of patients.*
> On balancing the public health and economic crisis, Holcomb said the state has taken a safety-first approach. “But we also don’t want to be reluctant to safely re-engage and restart and get back on track,” he said, adding that it’s “a little bit of science and a little bit of art.”
> Weaver said 84 sites across the state are providing COVID-19 tests. The state will add an additional 50 sites through a partnership with OptumServe. The online portal including a map of locations is expected to be available Monday.
> On the seemingly symbolic July 4 date for Stage Five, Holcomb said, “it just played out to July as we were looking at the data before us.” *He reiterated the plan and dates could change depending on the data.*



So all things considered, it looks like my household, with 3 at risk individuals, will be "social distancing" for a long time and will need to acquire more masks.


----------



## pirate_girl

I know of someone whose girlfriend was in the hospital recently because of a bad fall with a head injury.
Doing a total health workup showed she has antibodies.
She was sick with "a flu" back in February.
Yeeeup!


----------



## Melensdad

I have been tracking the 2nd WAVE that is rolling through China but I've been waiting for some of the more mainstream sources to report on it.  It took a little while but today there are two sources reporting on China's newest wave.  When they lock down cities they actually lock them down, not like here where it is treated as more of a suggestion and we still have 30 to 40% of our workers doing their jobs.

So for your reading enjoyment:  https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/world-news/china-shuts-down-city-after-22045886



> *China shuts down city after failed bid to contain second coronavirus outbreak*
> China's city Jilin is in the midst of a Wuhan-style lockdown after a botched attempt to contain a second wave of coronavirus infections which saw six officials get sacked
> 
> A bustling city in China with a population of 4.4 million people has announced a new Wuhan-style lockdown after a second wave of coronavirus infections.
> 
> Officials in Jilin, the former capital and second-largest city in Jilin Province, put Fengman District on "high alert" yesterday.
> 
> The district recorded three new locally transmitted cases and one further death.
> 
> It comes one week after Shulan, which is administered by Jilin, went on lockdown and quarantined 8,000 people in a failed bid to contain the second outbreak.
> 
> On Saturday, the local government sacked six officials, including Shulan Communist Party Chief Li Pengfei, over their handling of the second wave....



and 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...s-northeast-face-renewed-lockdown/ar-BB14ev9M



> *Over 100 Million in China’s Northeast Face Renewed Lockdown*
> (Bloomberg) --
> Some 108 million people in China’s northeast region are being plunged back under lockdown conditions as a new and growing cluster of infections causes a backslide in the nation’s return to normal.
> 
> In an abrupt reversal of the re-opening taking place across the nation, cities in Jilin province have cut off trains and buses, shut schools and quarantined tens of thousands of people. The strict measures have dismayed many residents who had thought the worst of the nation’s epidemic was over.
> 
> People “are feeling more cautious again,” said Fan Pai, who works at a trading company in Shenyang, a city in nearby Liaoning province that’s also facing renewed restrictions. “Children playing outside are wearing masks again” and health care workers are walking around in protective gear, she said. “It’s frustrating because you don’t know when it will end.”
> 
> ....​


----------



## mla2ofus

I feel for the chinese people but the gov't deserves this!!
Mike


----------



## EastTexFrank

Melensdad said:


> In the details, *people over 65 and/or people who are "at risk"* are to self isolate or take stronger social distancing measures for personal protection.  It is very clear that the state is managing hospital resources, not health.  So we are building our way toward "*herd immunity*" by managing _the rate at which our citizen die off_ from Covid.  *But those over 65, and those "at risk" really are just waiting for a vaccine and need to try to stay healthy until a vaccine comes out.
> *



Bingo Bob, you have hit the jackpot again.  That is exactly what most States are doing, some want everything shut down until there is a vaccine which may be years and by that time they will be back in the Stone Age.  

Now the truth of the matter is that 70% to 80% of the population are going to catch this bug, less than 1% is going to die so lets get the f**k on with it.  I'm one of those high risk individuals so I'm going to be taking precautions that a lot of people are not.  That's their decision and my decision is mine but for God's sake, locking down the whole country indefinitely is not the answer.


----------



## Bannedjoe

The town of Kingman AZ apparently has had enough of this shit.

I went to HD yesterday, and they had removed the moo cow stand outside cattle chutes, and were no longer counting people in and out of the store.

They still had one entrance marked in and the other out, but no one was paying attention, and the employees didn't care.
Some folks were wearing masks, but it didn't appear the employees were.

I then went to the autoparts store, no corralling or masks there either.

My tobacco store/gas station had been only using their drive thru or walk up service window.
Yesterday, they were allowing people in the store.

Enough of this bullshit already.


----------



## Melensdad

So nothing to see here.  Carry on.



> *The Economic "Reopening" Is A Fake Out*
> Authored by Brandon Smith via Alt-Market.com
> 
> How does one define an economic “reopening”? I think most people would say that a reopening means that everything goes back to the way it was before the crisis; or at least as close as possible.  Most people would also say that a reopening is something that will last.  Simply declaring “America has reopened” while keeping many restrictions in place in certain parts of the country is a bit of a farce.  And, reopening with the intention of implementing lockdowns again in a matter of weeks without explaining the situation to the public is a scam of the highest order.
> 
> For example, states like New York, California, Illinois and New Jersey have extended their lockdowns; with LA's extension remaining ambiguous after they initially declared restrictions for another 3 months. New York's lockdown is extended to the end of May (so far). This is the case in many US states and cities, while rural areas are mostly open. This is being called a “partial reopening”, but is there a purpose behind the uneven approach?
> 
> As I predicted in my article 'Pandemic And Economic Collapse: The Next 60 Days', the restrictions will continue in major US population centers while rural areas have mostly opened with much fanfare. The end result of this will be a flood of city dwellers into rural towns looking for relief from more strict lockdown conditions. In about a month, we should expect new viral clusters in places where there was limited transmission. I suggest that before the 4th of July holiday, state governments and the Federal government will be talking about new lockdowns, using the predictable infection spike as an excuse.
> This is happening in Northeast China right now - another resurgence has occurred and 100 million people are now subject to quarantine restrictions. China's reopening is barely two weeks old, and concerns of infection “flare ups” were widespread when the announcement was made. Now the mainstream media seems to be confused; is China open, or locked down? Of course, we may never know how bad the problem is and was in China as their numbers have been shown to be utterly rigged and suppressed from the beginning, but the point is that the phrase “reopening” is meaningless there, just as it will be meaningless here in the US.
> 
> This is part of the plan. The farce of reopenings does indeed have a purpose. I discuss this in great detail in my article 'Waves Of Mutilation: Medical Tyranny And The Cashless Society' published in April. The globalists are clearly the only beneficiaries of this event; with a world-wide surveillance state now openly on the table along with an accelerated shift into digital currency systems, the globalists are either taking advantage of this crisis to push their agenda, or they ENGINEERED the virus and caused the crisis to push their agenda.
> 
> In white papers published by globalists at the Imperial College of London as well as MIT, the plan is openly admitted. They suggest using “waves” of economic openings and then lockdowns to control the spread of the virus. The timelines seem to vary, but in general the models call for a one month open, two months closed cycle. The goal is to deliberately increase infections every couple of months in specific regions of a country, then declare economic shutdown and quarantine measures once the spread reaches a certain level; this is meant to continue until a vaccine is developed, which could take years.
> 
> When the globalists at MIT say “We are not going back to normal”; this is what they mean. Right now, the general public (at least in some parts of the country) is cheering the reopenings, but what they don't realize is that the reopenings are an illusion. Restrictions are going to remain in place in many states and cities, while they will be lifted and then re-instituted in others. In fact the situation is going to become much worse over time, by design.
> 
> The next lockdown, whenever it is announced, will be absolutely devastating to the US economy which is already in a downward spiral. The mitigating factors will be how effective central bank stimulus is at stalling the freefall (not very effective so far).  Other factors include the percentage of small businesses that survive the first lockdown and how many jobs those businesses can bring back to the economy. The first lockdown may be survivable for a large percentage of Americans and businesses; the second lockdown will financially destroy all but the most prepared. And make no mistake, there WILL be many more lockdowns over the next couple years.
> 
> In the meantime, international banks like Wells Fargo and JP Morgan have seen to it that small businesses are hit hard by the crisis by funneling bailout money and paycheck loans to their larger clients over the smaller businesses that the money was intended to go to. Of the 300,000 clients of JP Morgan that applied for an emergency loan through the government bailout program, only 18,000 actually received one and many of these clients were NOT small businesses.
> 
> If the cycle of lockdowns continues, small businesses will be wiped off the map. The elites have rigged the economic game; they control where every dollar of the bailout money goes, and many of their corporations are the only institutions that are equipped to survive the onslaught. Some of these companies will go down, but in the long run the goal, in my view, is total centralization of production and distribution.
> 
> This is exactly what happened during the Great Depression when JP Morgan and other major banks devoured thousands of small local banks across the country and removed them as competitors from the system. After the depression, banking was completely centralized into the hands of a select few mega-companies. Today, they are attempting to erase all localized small business competition to international corporations.
> 
> Taking over the business infrastructure of entire nations and removing all independent competition is only one incentive for the lockdowns to continue. There is also the process of acclimating the public to the idea that lockdowns are the “new normal”. While I do see resistance in certain parts of the world, including the US, many countries in Asia and Europe have witnessed a rather sheepish response to the idea of medical tyranny. I also see an immense wildfire of unconstitutional legislation and illegal state measures being rolled out in the US while the public is distracted by financial circumstances and the virus threat.
> 
> Certainly, it appears that most Americans hate the lockdowns. But will they be fooled by the “reopening” into complacency for the next several weeks while the government gets ready to hit them with the next round of restrictions? Will they be so caught off guard they won't know how to react? Imagine the economic devastation of just one more nationwide lockdown event? It will be carnage, and a lot of hope within the population will be lost.
> 
> This will lead to two possible paths: Submission, or rebellion. Either the majority of the American people will accept the lockdowns as a new fact of everyday life, or they will become so enraged by the destruction of their economy that they will revolt.
> 
> If the intent is to keep the cycle going until a vaccine is introduced as elitist publications assert, then we have a LONG way to go and this first lockdown was child's play compared to what comes next.
> 
> The excuse for the wave model will be that they need to control and slow the spread of infection over time to avoid overwhelming our medical infrastructure. But this makes very little sense to me at this stage. Perhaps within the first month or two of the pandemic this was somewhat logical, so that we could gauge the threat of the virus. What we know right now is that the virus is at least three times more deadly that the average annual flu; which is something to be concerned about, but not something we should be destroying our economy over.


----------



## pirate_girl

Bannedjoe said:


> Enough of this bullshit already.



That's what I say.
Doc posted a good "toon" on the state of New York being hit hard, and how the panic spread subsequently throughout the country because of.
Well duh, like such a large city wouldn't have so many covid related deaths from the beginning?

As for me, it's over.
A second wave may come along, but it's a freaking virus.
I'm just waiting until our dear leaders tell we in healthcare to stop wearing the masks.
That it's ok to come out and play now.


----------



## mla2ofus

I still think trump's medical team scared him into doing what he did. I also think some governors got a little taste of power and are reluctant to give it up. The way I see the whole lockdown/mitigation thing is elected officials and bureaucrats got to pick winners and losers with their definition of essential and non essential. To me it should have been all or nothing!!
                      JMHO,
Mike


----------



## Melensdad

We "officially" surpassed 100,000 deaths for Covid.  

Media sources claim that the tally is _'most certainly an undercount'_ of deaths related to the disease but they don't seem to cite why they make such a claim.  So is it an undercount?  Is it accurate?  What I know is that one of the guys I shoot with lost his mother yesterday to Covid.  She was in a nursing home.  Apparently 47% of all Covid deaths in the US occur in nursing homes.  

Indiana's governor Holcomb was in the news yesterday for saying that we can reopen our schools safely this fall.  He didn't say how.  Details will be released in a few weeks.


> Gov. Eric Holcomb expects to announce in coming weeks *when and how Indiana schools will reopen for the fall semester* amid the coronavirus pandemic.
> 
> The Republican chief executive *declined Wednesday to provide reporters any specific details *about the school calendar, instructional time, food service, student safety, extracurricular activities and the myriad other components of education in the Hoosier State.
> 
> He said his administration currently is working with local schools and the Department of Education to figure all that out, and the final plan still is "probably a couple weeks off."
> 
> https://www.nwitimes.com/news/educa...hVMap9DJGVgOjmYBiyVis0DWQPwLigj4v5Ed1Hmbe3log
> 
> *"I'm convinced that we will be able to reopen safely," Holcomb said. "We are approaching this as 'how can we,' not 'how can we not.'"*
> 
> Holcomb ordered all public, charter and private schools in the state closed March 19 ...  The governor on April 2 then canceled in-person instruction for the remainder of the 2019-20 school year ...
> 
> Katie Jenner, Holcomb's senior education adviser, said in the weeks since schools were shuttered officials in the governor's office have spent "many, many hours" with their counterparts at the Department of Education and Department of Health developing "comprehensive reentry guidance" for Indiana schools.
> 
> "We understand the importance of timely guidance, while also balancing the necessity to *review the most updated data and research on how to maximize our student learning*, while also ensuring safety is the priority," Jenner said. "We will provide this reentry guidance, as Gov. Holcomb mentioned, just as soon as possible."
> 
> The governor hinted to reporters that *local school districts are likely to have control over their reopenings*, similar to how municipalities are authorized to follow a slower reopening strategy than the schedule outlined in Holcomb's "Back on Track" plan that seeks to get business in Indiana back to normal by July 4.
> 
> "We do recognize it's about the students and the teachers, it's about everyone that goes into that building. And we want to make sure that when we do reopen, it's safe," Holcomb said. "There won't be one-size-fits-all. This will be informed from the very local level, through the Department of Education and our administration, to open safely." ...



Indiana's Notre Dame and Purdue University have both previously announced they will be reopening in the fall.  Both have plans in place that will protect the 'at risk' professors, staff and students.  It will be interesting to see how the local schools will be progressing to protect at risk students and staff (_and some of the parents of students_).



Meanwhile, the drive to reopen is not because it is safe for people, but rather because there is so much human suffering caused by the lockdowns that people can no longer tolerate the effects fo the shutdown.

https://www.zerohedge.com/health/reopening-isnt-about-haircuts-its-about-relieving-human-suffering



> Reopening Isn't About Haircuts, It's About Relieving Human Suffering
> Authored by Randy Hicks via InsideSources.com,
> 
> Georgia recently began the long process of reopening its economy in the wake of what it is hoped will be the worst of the COVID-19 pandemic.
> 
> Beginning in late April, certain categories of businesses were allowed to open in Georgia, including restaurants and barber shops. The encouraging news is that infection rates have not spiked and, instead, are flattening and even declining.
> 
> Many are concerned that we’re moving too early, too fast — and that safety will take a back seat. That worry is understandable. The toll of the virus in suffering and loss of life is indescribable, as thousands of families are affected in ways they will never forget.
> 
> On the other side, many are clamoring for even quicker action to get people back to work.
> 
> *In truth, both sides have it right. Our first priority should be health. Clearly, that trumps all. But a key aspect of health is not just avoiding a virus, but the full spectrum of human well-being and flourishing. And to achieve that, we can’t afford to remain on lockdown much longer.*
> 
> We clearly know the economic devastation wrought by the virus: About half of low-income households have reported job or wage loss due to the coronavirus. These job losses could be felt for years as families struggle to get back on their feet — or are never able to at all, plunging them into poverty.
> 
> The toll is real. I’m thinking of young moms like Jessica (not her real name to protect her identity), who had been living in her car with her small child as a result of work cutbacks and being evicted. Stories like this one are countless.
> 
> But what about the toll on mental health and general well-being? The picture is beginning to emerge, and it’s not pretty. In fact, we are facing a public mental health crisis.
> 
> A recent Kaiser Family Foundation survey found that more than half of U.S. adults (56 percent) report that worry related to the coronavirus outbreak has caused them stress-induced symptoms like insomnia, poor appetite or overeating, or frequent headaches or stomach aches.
> 
> That’s only the beginning. We have also seen the effects of social isolation in a 1,000 percent increase in calls to distress hotlines in April alone.
> 
> Rates of substance abuse and suicide will doubtless skyrocket. One analysis predicts that if the United States reaches Depression-era level unemployment rates, *we could see 18,000 additional suicides and additional overdose deaths of 22,000.*
> 
> The Well Being Trust recently released a report estimating *the pandemic could lead to 75,000 additional “deaths of despair”* from drug and alcohol abuse and suicide.
> 
> *During this lockdown, people are missing the ingredients that make for a flourishing life:* community, relationships, purpose and belonging. And the truth is that, for many Americans, a major way they experience these benefits is through a job. It’s where we find community, socialize and discover a sense of meaning.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

This video sums up all the advice perfectly:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Osbxp8pyBGk[/ame]


----------



## EastTexFrank

PBinWA said:


> This video sums up all the advice perfectly:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Osbxp8pyBGk



Yup, that got it about right!


----------



## Jim_S RIP

PBinWA said:


> This video sums up all the advice perfectly:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Osbxp8pyBGk





EastTexFrank said:


> Yup, that got it about right!





:th_lmao:


----------



## EastTexFrank

There has been a minor spike in cases and one death in our county because the virus got in to a nursing home in the small town of Winnsboro.  That accounted for an increase of 7 cases and the one death.  If it hadn't been for that we would have been down to 3 active cases.  Keep on opening up.  It doesn't seem to be making any major difference in the number of cases.  Me?  I'm still wearing a mask when I go in to town and taking all reasonable precautions but there is no reason why the rest of you can't get on with your life.  .


----------



## Melensdad

EastTexFrank said:


> ...  Me?  I'm still wearing a mask when I go in to town and taking all reasonable precautions but there is no reason why the rest of you can't get on with your life.  .



I'm in a delayed opening area because we have over 3500 cases in my county.

But I agree with you.  Take reasonable precautions and reopen the world carefully.

Problem I see are the people who take ZERO precautions and complain about or shame those of us who wear masks.  You do your thing and let me do mine.  Don't shame mask wearers. Don't crowd around the elderly.  People have to stop being assholes.  

My Priest is vocal about not wearing his mask.  I'm afraid of him at this point.  I get that people should have choices but he is catering to an older demographic and needs to be a bit more cognizant of reality.


----------



## EastTexFrank

Melensdad said:


> My Priest is vocal about not wearing his mask.  I'm afraid of him at this point.  I get that people should have choices but he is catering to an older demographic and needs to be a bit more cognizant of reality.



I totally agree with you on that point.  The little town of Winnsboro in Wood County where I live has seen an increase of 7 confirmed cases and two deaths because somebody carried the virus in to a nursing home.  They obviously didn't mean to do it but they got careless or irresponsible and now 2 people are dead with perhaps more to follow.  I should mention that without the outbreak in Winnsboro, the active case count in the county would be 2 or 3.  

I was in town for a short period yesterday and practically no one was wearing a mask.  The folks in CVS were but only about 50% of the customers had one on.  

I don't know what to think except that my wife and still wear our masks in public and douse ourselves in hand sanitizer.  Anything we bring home still gets wiped down or left outside for at least 3 days before being brought in.  Basically we are still behaving as we did on day one.  I don't see that things in general have changed all that much even with things opening up in Texas.


----------



## Melensdad

EastTexFrank said:


> ...
> 
> I don't know what to think except that my wife and still wear our masks in public and douse ourselves in hand sanitizer.  Anything we bring home still gets wiped down or left outside for at least 3 days before being brought in.  Basically we are still behaving as we did on day one.  I don't see that things in general have changed all that much even with things opening up in Texas.



My wife was out, she said the majority of people in the area *are wearing masks*.  We use N95 masks.  Fortunately I have a reasonable supply.  We also use cycling masks which have replaceable N95 filters.  Hand sanitizer in every vehicle.  Lysol spray in every vehicle.

As for us, we lysol spray all the packages that arrive on the porch.  Wipe down all the groceries, let them sit in the garage on shelves, etc etc etc.  So pretty much the same as you.

The reality is that open or not, the virus is still here.  It's infecting more people every day.  More people are dying daily.  There is no known treatment but there are some things that seem to help some.  There is no known cure.  

On the bright side there is a lot of evidence that Vitamin D helps reduce complications and there may be some correlation between Vitamin D and reduced infection rate.  There is also growing evidence that ZINC is very beneficial in reducing complications, duration, and intensity.  

We also know that, with rare exception, people under 50 basically don't die from Covid-19.  From age 50 to age 65 there is some moderate level of risk.  Over age 65 and all bets are off.  

We also know that obesity, uncontrolled diabetes, uncontrolled high blood pressure, and being immunosuppressed increase chances of complications.  Overly any of those issues with advanced age and the chances of death go up pretty dramatically.  So based on what we know we can assess our own risk for complications.  

We are all pretty much equally susceptible to catching the infection, which is why masks, hand washing, face touching, etc all come into play.


----------



## m1west

I hope these riots brought to you from the same folks that are going to lock you down again doesn't cause another spike in the virus. If that happens we will be seriously screwed.


----------



## Jim_S RIP

m1west said:


> I hope these riots brought to you from the same folks that are going to lock you down again doesn't cause another spike in the virus. If that happens we will be seriously screwed.



By far the majority of the new infections will be liberals.


----------



## Melensdad

jim slagle said:


> By far the majority of the new infections will be [strike]liberals.[/strike] _enthusiastic bargain shoppers! _



FIFY


----------



## Jim_S RIP

Melensdad said:


> FIFY





I hear the Minneapolis Targets have plenty of tp in stock but are out of all models of televisions!


----------



## m1west

jim slagle said:


> By far the majority of the new infections will be liberals.



I guess thats the silver lining.


----------



## Jim_S RIP

Not just liberals (shoppers  )

George Floyd protests could impact coronavirus containment measures, experts warn
By Madeline Farber | Fox News

https://www.foxnews.com/health/geor...coronavirus-containment-measures-experts-warn



> Our hearts go out to all affected by the tragic death of George Floyd. We affirm the right of all individuals to protest peacefully. The fact that the COVID-19 pandemic continues to afflict the country and affects African-Americans in disproportionate numbers reminds us of the critical importance of following public health recommendations essential to controlling the pandemic while protesting," he said. "The National Foundation for Infectious Diseases urges all who protest to do so as safely as possible: wear a face mask, stay at least six feet away from others, use hand sanitizer, use signs and noise-makers instead of yelling, and try to limit your contact to small groups of people.”
> 
> The protests have prompted government officials to issue similar warnings, with Atlanta Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms advising protestors “to go get a COVID test this week” because "there's still a pandemic in America that's killing black and brown people at higher numbers." Meanwhile, Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti warned that the protests could become “super-spreader events.” In New York City, the country’s epicenter for the novel virus, Dr. Theodore Long, who is leading the city’s contact tracing initiative, also encouraged demonstrators to get tested.


----------



## Bannedjoe

So it's ok to loot and riot, but make sure to wear your masks for protection and to hide your face, and dammit, stay 6 feet apart!!!!

Dr Fauci is probably screaming that we need to limit stores to 10 rioters at a time.


----------



## pirate_girl

We can come out and play now.


COLUMBUS — Ohio Governor Mike DeWine today announced the reopening of certain facilities including certain entertainment facilities with health and safety restrictions.

“As I’ve said, Ohioans are able to do two things at once. We can continue to limit the spread of COVID-19 while we safely reopen our economy. It is up to each of us to do what we can to keep each other safe and choose to keep six feet of social distance, wear masks, and maintain good hand hygiene.” said Governor DeWine. “The threat of COVID-19 remains and while it’s our responsibility to keep each other safe, business owners and employees should do their part to ensure customers visit safely, by cleaning and sanitizing surfaces regularly.”

Day camps and residential camps may open at any time. Entertainment venues listed below may open beginning June 10 if they are able to follow Retail, Consumer, Service & Entertainment Guidelines and other applicable additional guidance:

Aquariums

Art galleries

Country clubs

Ice skating rinks

Indoor family entertainment centers

Indoor sports facilities

Laser tag facilities

Movie theaters (indoor)

Museums

Playgrounds (outdoor)

Public recreation centers

Roller skating rinks

Social clubs

Trampoline parks

Zoos

Health orders will be posted on coronavirus.ohio.gov when available.

Additional information and sector specific operating requirements can be found on the Responsible RestartOhio page coronavirus.ohio.gov/ResponsibleRestartOhio.

Thursday's Ohio data:

There were 37,282 cases with 2,339 deaths. There have been 6,312 hospitalizations with 1,623 admitted to ICU.


----------



## pirate_girl

Four of my nurse aides went through the virtual school graduation the end of May, because of covid.
Work had t shirts made for them, plus a nice little $$ gift as well.

The gals are going on to nursing careers.
Logan (that Logan/Roberta's) is going the direction of computer science.


----------



## Melensdad

:th_lmao:


----------



## m1west

Looks like its picking up a little, mostly in the southern border states. South America has the world hot spots right now and I'm sure that has something to do with it as well as the protests. Around here I think everyone forgot about it.


----------



## Melensdad

Sweden is pretty much leading the world in deaths.  Many heralded then as the model for the world but basically they made a bet and lost.  

Well worth spending 30 minutes watching.  Dr Campbell gives daily updates on Covid.  Non-political.  Just science, in simple terms.  

Link —>  https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=K4SQ-NOV-iU


----------



## Bannedjoe

I might be totally left field...

But I'm betting if everyone focused on other forms of death and kept a daily running total, we'd all be freaked the hell out.

There's still cancer, aids, car wrecks, heart attacks....you name it.

But when you only have a hammer, everything begins to look like a nail.


----------



## pirate_girl

m1west said:


> Around here I think everyone forgot about it.



Same here except for the mask wearing at work.
Now when I go in, it's that feeling of here we go again.
How much longer do we have to do this.
Discussions with co-workers now are more of a humourous nature of playing the waiting game.
And that of "hey, I know a lot of people. But I don't know a single soul yet who has tested positive for this, nevermind died from it."

Guess we all have to wait and see when our states tell us we're 100% FREE.


----------



## mla2ofus

I've come to like the new name: "scamdemic"!!
Mike


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Bannedjoe said:


> I might be totally left field...
> 
> But I'm betting if everyone focused on other forms of death and kept a daily running total, we'd all be freaked the hell out.
> 
> There's still cancer, aids, car wrecks, heart attacks....you name it.
> 
> But when you only have a hammer, everything begins to look like a nail.




It's an election year.  This is all about making Trump look bad at any cost.


----------



## Bannedjoe

California has just made masks mandatory.


----------



## pirate_girl

Bannedjoe said:


> California has just made masks mandatory.



Like that's going to happen.


----------



## EastTexFrank

pirate_girl said:


> Like that's going to happen.



Yea, as if the "beautiful people" want to cover up.  It's all about seeing and being seen.


----------



## Bannedjoe

pirate_girl said:


> Like that's going to happen.



They say they don't know how they're going to enforce it yet.
I'm sure fines could be involved, but how big of a force would you need to run around and police this policy?
I'm certain whatever police forces might be left certainly won't have the time to run around writing tickets for this.
Although it could prove lucrative for the state.


----------



## m1west

Bannedjoe said:


> They say they don't know how they're going to enforce it yet.
> I'm sure fines could be involved, but how big of a force would you need to run around and police this policy?
> I'm certain whatever police forces might be left certainly won't have the time to run around writing tickets for this.
> Although it could prove lucrative for the state.



I don't know what there planning for enforcement and fines, but I'm in a rural area and pretty much no one around here has been wearing masks since the mortality rate was compared to the flu. I have not worn one since then and don't plan to.


----------



## bczoom

Masks were required in PA for awhile.  You didn't have to wear them outside or in your personal space (like your car or whatever).  They were required to enter buildings but that was more of a store policy if I recall.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

I wore a mask for the first time yesterday. They suck with glasses. I felt as though my breathing was constricted and my glasses kept fogging up. I finally took it off and shoved it in my pocket. Numbers are very low in this area.


----------



## bczoom

Just use a cheap dusk mask.  They don't get hot and don't fog glasses.
Our zip code still has only 1-4 cases (redacted as to the actual #).  This hasn't changed in a month.


----------



## Bannedjoe

bczoom said:


> Just use a cheap dusk mask.  They don't get hot and don't fog glasses.
> Our zip code still has only 1-4 cases (redacted as to the actual #).  This hasn't changed in a month.


My zip code has....Zip. Zero. Nada.


----------



## EastTexFrank

I wear a mask when I enter stores or am around bunches of strangers which isn't very often.  My wife wears one but hates it.  She says she feels as if she is suffocating.  She stopped wearing the N95 and wears a lighter mask but still hates it.  

The numbers in our County jumped about 3 weeks ago and we are just getting the second go around now.  It's not as high as the first but it's still significant for a small rural County.  All the new cases are basically associated with a nursing home in one small town of 3K people.  Two asymptomatic employees were working there for two weeks before they got sick.  By that time the whole place was infected.  That led to about 30 new cases and 5 deaths.  The rest of the County is fairly stable but there has been a slight uptick, again, I think, associated with contact with the nursing home but that's only my opinion.


----------



## mla2ofus

I really like the term"scamdemic"!! Fauci seems to have a bad case of little man syndrome. Now he wants to shut down the NFL stadium fans!!
Mike


----------



## EastTexFrank

mla2ofus said:


> I really like the term"scamdemic"!! Fauci seems to have a bad case of little man syndrome. Now he wants to shut down the NFL stadium fans!!
> Mike



He's had his 15 minutes of fame.  I wish that he'd ride off into the sunset, never to be seen again.  

Fauci epitomizes everything that I dislike about "experts".  He's been wrong more times than he's been right.  Initially he lied about the need for masks for the public in the "public interest" of making more available for first line responders.  He expresses opinions on things he has no knowledge of and expects his words of wisdom to be treated as the Gospel truth.  No!  His time has come and gone.  Goodbye.  We thank you but no thanks.


----------



## pirate_girl

We still have the die-hard mask wearers here.
Public places, grocery stores, restaurants..
Of course that's the first thing I have to do upon entry at work, punch into the kiosk, name, go through the motions answering the few questions, take my temp, record it, sign out, sign the paper, grab a mask from the box and away we gooooo, for 12 freaking hours.

Nothing feels so wonderful as throwing that SOB in the trash bin AFTER I go through the motions again at the kiosk and sign out book at the end of the day.
Can't wait until this charade is over.
The End.


----------



## Bannedjoe

I've got the solution for Covid and Racism.

We all wear hoods and gloves!

That way everyone is covered for sneezes and coughs, and no one can tell what race anyone is.

TA-Da!!!
Problems solved.


----------



## m1west

Hi all, this is in the local paper today. Seems folks are done with the virus control and so is the county I live in.


----------



## Jim_S RIP

m1west said:


> Hi all, this is in the local paper today. Seems folks are done with the virus control and so is the county I live in.



Didn’t I see the Sacramento County Sheriff say the same?


----------



## m1west

jim slagle said:


> Didn’t I see the Sacramento County Sheriff say the same?



Maybe I don't get out much LOL


----------



## Jim_S RIP

m1west said:


> Maybe I don't get out much LOL



Found it.


Sacramento Sheriff, other capital agencies won’t enforce Newsom’s mask order. Here’s why
BY ALEXANDRA YOON-HENDRICKS AND  MICHAEL MCGOUGH
JUNE 19, 2020 12:26 PM ,  UPDATED JUNE 20, 2020 08:31 AM

Read more here: https://www.sacbee.com/news/coronavirus/article243663267.html#storylink=cpy

The Sacramento County Sheriff’s Office will not be enforcing the statewide order Gov. Gavin Newsom announced Thursday requiring masks and face coverings in public as coronavirus cases continue to increase in California.

In a statement Friday, the Sheriff’s Office recommended people should be “exercising safe practices” during the pandemic, including wearing masks, but said it would be “inappropriate” to criminally enforce the governor’s order, or target people and businesses for failing to do so.

“Due to the minor nature of the offense, the potential for negative outcomes during enforcement encounters, and anticipating the various ways in which the order may be violated, it would be inappropriate for deputies to criminally enforce the Governor’s mandate,” a statement from Sheriff Scott Jones said.


Instead, deputies will be operating “in an educational capacity” — an enforcement stance that the office has maintained for months with regard to social distancing protocols, even as various health orders locally and statewide have come down in an effort to slow the spread of the coronavirus.

Sheriff’s Office employees will comply with Newsom’s new order “to the extent feasible,” according to Jones’ statement.

Sacramento County public health officials have observed a recent spike in coronavirus activity, which contact tracers have attributed to large gatherings like parties inside people’s homes where attendees have not worn masks or maintained physical distance.


----------



## Jim_S RIP

New Coronavirus Cases Have Reached Record Highs in 12 States; Here’s Why It Doesn’t Matter
Posted at 12:30 pm on June 23, 2020 by Elizabeth Vaughn

https://www.redstate.com/elizabeth-...ighs-in-12-states-heres-why-it-doesnt-matter/

The media has been issuing ominous warnings about the resurgence of new cases of COVID-19 in many states. In fact, new cases are at record highs in at least a dozen states.

NPR published a list of states where new cases (as of Monday 11:59 pm, June 22) were higher than they’d been two weeks ago. Topping the list was Oklahoma, which has seen a 268% jump in new cases. Next up are Florida and Texas with increases of 184% and 154%, respectively. The list can be viewed here.

“So what,” says the Issues & Insights editorial board.

In early March, when various plans of dealing with the coronavirus were being debated, the choices were shown to us via a curve. Two extremes were presented to us. In the first scenario, we could go on with business as usual and the curve would nearly immediately turn upward and would peak quickly. It would also fall as fast as it rose. The obvious disadvantage to this choice is that the hospitals would be crushed trying to provide care for such a huge influx of patients at one time.

The second option, and the one the U.S. ultimately chose, was to shut down the economy and self-quarantine, the goal being to flatten the curve. The benefit to this plan was that our hospitals and health care professionals would not be overwhelmed.

And, as we moved through it, we were told that scientists would have more time to find an effective therapy to fight the virus and to ramp up testing.

The number of lives lost was said to be approximately the same under the two plans, but the deaths would be accelerated under the first scenario.

_ We were also told that once we began to reopen the economy, the number of cases would increase._

The I & I editors looked at the situation in Georgia, a state which began to reopen in late April. Gov. Brian Kemp was widely criticized for opening his state too early. At the time, WRCB TV reported that one epidemiological model predicted: “the number of COVID-19 deaths per day in Georgia will jump from 32 people dying on May 1 to a projected 63 people dying per day by August 4.”

As it turned out:



> The number of daily deaths in the state had already peaked on April 16 at 57 and has been steadily declining ever since. The state recorded a total of 37 deaths all last week, and zero on Sunday.
> 
> The same trend is happening nationally, which has seen the growth rate in the total number of cases steadily outstrip the growth in COVID-19 deaths for many weeks now.
> 
> So far this month, in fact, the number of new cases on June 21 was 16% higher than on June 1, but the daily number of deaths was 63% lower.



Here’s the interesting part. One of the site’s editors, Michael Fumento, explains why the spike in new cases won’t lead to a subsequent spike in deaths.

“Death rates are higher at the start of an outbreak for the simple reason that the disease claims the low-hanging fruit first. This, he says, is known as Farr’s Law,” says Fumento. (Please scroll down for a description of Farr’s Law.)

Fumento continues:



> The latest CDC data show that those aged 65 and older account for 80% of all COVID-19 deaths in the U.S. But that age group makes up only 16% of the population. At the other end of the spectrum, those under age 35 comprise 45% of the population but account for a tiny0.8% of COVID-19 deaths.
> 
> Not only has the disease already claimed many of the most vulnerable in this country, there are also millions who now have antibodies.
> 
> The combination means that even if there are lots of new cases going forward, the death toll is likely to be far less severe than it has been.



Why don’t we hear explanations like this from the mainstream media? Because if they had their way, the economy would remain shut down through Election Day.

Wikipedia:



> Farr’s law was formulated by Dr. William Farr when he made the observation that epidemic events rise and fall in a roughly symmetrical pattern. The time-evolution behavior could be captured by a single mathematical formula that could be approximated by a bell-shaped curve.
> 
> In 1840, Farr submitted a letter to the Annual Report of the Registrar General of Births, Deaths and Marriages in England. In that letter, he applied mathematics to the records of deaths during a recent smallpox epidemic, proposing that:
> 
> “If the latent cause of epidemics cannot be discovered, the mode in which it operates may be investigated. The laws of its action may be determined by observation, as well as the circumstances in which epidemics arise, or by which they may be controlled.”
> 
> He showed that during the smallpox epidemic, a plot of the number of deaths per quarter followed a roughly bell-shaped or “normal curve”, and that recent epidemics of other diseases had followed a similar pattern.


----------



## Melensdad

Texas just halted their "reopening" as the hospitals in the Houston area have been overrun with cases.  Elective surgeries have been halted in 6 populous counties.  The Houston ICU capacity has been exceeded, there is now emergency activation of temporary hospital measures.

So while many people don't care, and while most people don't die, we are seeing almost the whole of the south, from Florida to California having their emergency and critical care services taxed to near capacity or beyond.  

One of my fencing students just buried his grandfathers via video-stream due to Covid.  His father is in isolation, also stricken with Covid.  This disease strikes the old and the sick the hardest.  

Basically it is killing off the generation that uses Forums-Forums.  Perhaps the advantage we have here at FF is that most of us are pretty rural, pretty isolated, and pretty self-sufficient based on our own life choices.  So we have the luxury of sitting back and watching the pandemic, its economic and societal effects, all while we sip sweet tea (_or single malt, or bourbon_) on our respective porches.


----------



## EastTexFrank

Bob, I know that in many parts of Texas when they started opening back up they said "screw it, I want my life back" and totally abandoned all the precautions.  When I occasionally go in to our little town I continually meet people whose attitude is "That if the good Lord wants me, He'll take me".  Many say that they want to catch the virus and get it over and done with one way or another.  They just don't want to continue living like we have been.

I'm like you, I'm considered high risk and that kind of attitude frightens me somewhat.  It's not just them but all the other people, like me, who they can come in contact with.  My wife and I are still taking the same basic precautions that we were taking when this whole thing started and we'll continue to stay away from people as much as possible.  

As you mentioned, we're sitting up on our little hill surrounded by pastures, fences and locked gates, freezers are well stocked, plenty of Scotch and dog and cat food.  

At the beginning of this, I said that I thought I had enough resources to last about 3 months.  Well, about 4 months in to it and we've probably got enough to last for maybe another 6 months.  I kind of underestimated.  

Our County still isn't overwhelmed but the number keep on ticking up almost every day.  I'm beginning to think that the only real hope is a vaccine and I don't know how long that will take.  2020 is shaping up to be the year that never was.


----------



## Melensdad

EastTexFrank said:


> . . .
> 
> I'm like you, I'm considered high risk and that kind of attitude frightens me somewhat. * It's not just them but all the other people, like me, who they can come in contact with.*  My wife and I are still taking the same basic precautions that we were taking when this whole thing started and we'll continue to stay away from people as much as possible.
> 
> As you mentioned, we're sitting up on our little hill surrounded by pastures, fences and locked gates, freezers are well stocked, plenty of Scotch and dog and cat food.
> 
> . . .



These people seemed like a nice family.  But a fairly short duration family party now has the elder members in ICU and 18 total infected.  

Hey, if you are under 30 I understand, get it and get over it.  Many may not even know they had it.  I even support sending healthy kids to school and reopening the colleges too.

If you are in the 31-59 _and healthy_ group, maybe not much to worry about, at least if you are not living pay check to pay check.  If you get it you'll likely miss a couple weeks of work, you'll feel like you have a cold, maybe you will feel miserable, just sort of depends on how bad of a case you got.  

Age 60+ with high blood pressure, any autoimmune disorder, heart issues, diabetes, etc etc and you are rolling the dice and the house holds the odds.  You may very well survive but it will be a struggle and you will be more than miserable.

Age 60-74 and healthy, probably going to spend a bit of time in the hospital or miserable at home but you'll be back on your feet.

Age 75+ and statistically to dust you shall return.

Any age + underlying conditions and you are playing Russian Roulette.  


https://www.kens5.com/article/news/...RBR8C5iOs77Y0D5vzsjwIEGlu9ip22lgrlu_lYEUmGQKU



> *North Texas family shaken after 18 relatives test positive for COVID-19 following family gathering
> *Three are now hospitalized, including two elderly family members and one woman battling breast cancer.
> 
> 
> CARROLLTON, Texas — As North Texas watches COVID-19 cases and hospitalizations surge, one family is shouldering a health crisis that they never expected to face.
> 
> That crisis, all began on May 30 when just a single relative, unknowingly infected with COVID-19, interacted with seven family members at a surprise birthday party who later tested positive.
> 
> Now, Ron Barbosa is keeping track of 18 people in his family who have tested positive for COVID-19.  Per Barbosa, those seven family members contracted and spread the virus to 10 other relatives at the party or through other family interactions.
> 
> Barbosa didn't attend the party himself, but the celebration was for his daughter-in-law who turned 30. However, Barbosa's nephew hosted.
> 
> That nephew, Barbosa said, is the one who was unknowingly infected, *thinking a slight cough was the byproduct of working in construction. *Before the party, he played golf with a few family members who also attended the event, according to Barbosa.
> 
> Even though everyone did their best to stay socially distant, Barbosa said it likely wasn't enough as he suspects the party was likely the catalyst of the spread.
> 
> *"It wasn't that long. It was only a couple of hours," *Barbosa, a volunteer EMT said. "But during that brief time, somehow the other 18 family members are now infected with COVID."
> 
> Barbosa, who is also married to a doctor, said he and his wife refused to go to the party due to safety reasons.
> 
> However, *it was a party that by current state health standards appeared harmless. A total of 25 people attended, Barbosa said, and not all of them arrived at the same time or stayed for the same duration. *
> 
> "When people started getting sick, we really let everyone have it," Barbosa said.  "We knew this was going to happen, I mean this whole time this has been going on we've been terrified."
> 
> Among those infected are two young children, two grandparents, a cancer patient and Barbosa's parents, who are in their 80s. . .


----------



## pirate_girl

My son Jeff is in Pittsburgh right now.
Last night he went to his usual spot, Primanti Bros to have supper.
He had to wear a mask inside the restaurant, but could take it off once he started eating.

Today he wanted to go to Big Jim's but it was take out only, so he settled for the pizza place that makes the huge pies.


----------



## m1west

Fauci keeps talking about a cure by the end of the year or early next year. Where is the cure for the common cold or the flu that kills nearly as many each year. It may never come. I'm over 60 and practice hand sanitizer and washing hands. I use the mask when appropriate. I also live in a rural area like most posting here. Life hasn't changed that much except work is a little slower than normal. I have made some adjustments and its really not that much of an inconvenience. traffic is much liter when I have to go to a city and the stores are less crowded. I don't know if it will burn itself out or come back year after year, but this I do know, there is not a fu<king thing you or I can do about it. Life goes on until it doesn't.


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> Fauci keeps talking about a cure. . .



I think the whole science community is optimistic for a few reasons.  NEVER in history have multiple governments devoted so much money to do the research and development to find treatments and vaccines as we are seeing today.  The US has partnered with several major medical research universities, footing the bill.  Several private companies have partnered with major medical research universities.  The UK, China and Russia, as well as the EU, are pumping money into research to find a cure.  

And we are not talking about small amounts of money.  This is a worldwide effort with open checkbooks.


----------



## road squawker

pirate_girl said:


> A co-worker just sent me this.
> Medics are going to be at our facility doing testing.
> It's mandatory.
> 
> View attachment 127968



Intersting, a "memo" on plain paper that is not even signed.


----------



## pirate_girl

road squawker said:


> Intersting, a "memo" on plain paper that is not even signed.



There you go Mr. Quizzical.
I removed the posts.
I'll be damned sure to let you know the results of my covid test, pictures, proof and all.


----------



## pirate_girl

Apparently as these testing teams make their way through the state, facilities will be given a 2 hr window (notice).
I'm actually looking forward to being tested.


----------



## Melensdad

PG its good that Ohio is doing this.

As you look at the statistics from around the nation, if you look at nursing homes you see clusters of deaths.  Typically it's the elderly residents who get sick and many die, typically the staff carries it around the home.  While it varies by state, many states seems to see that nursing home residents make up roughly 1/2 of the deaths in the state (_varies and is on-going but I've seen 42% to 70%_)


--------------------------------


Looks ALABAMA has a bunch of idiots in college.  

The news is reporting that college kids at University of Alabama are hosting "Covid Parties" where kids put $ into a jar when they enter the party.  The kid who catches Covid first wins all the money in the jar.  

Don't get me wrong, I hope we get to herd immunity sooner rather than later, but in a somewhat more responsible way.  If kids are being this blatant about spreading it my guess is they are doing nothing to protect their elderly or vulnerable relatives, neighbors, etc.



-----------------------------


Indiana has "paused" its reopening.  Our R-naught infection rate number went from 0.96 to 0.99 and while we have plenty of ICU beds and ventilators and capacity, we've had some troubling trends.

On July 3 we were supposed to lift ALL restrictions on businesses and move into Phase 5, which was a return to normal.  While ALL restrictions would be lifted from businesses, the schools and .gov offices would still operate under restricted guidance.  So as of July 3 we will be under Phase 4.5 . . . which is just a half-ass move . . . we stay under Phase 4 until mid-July.  And we get a RECOMMENDATION to wear masks, not a mandate.  

In mid July when we supposedly move to Phase 5 we will see what happens.  The state website has been updated for EMPLOYEES in Phase 5 saying that mask requires will be determined.  Currently under Phase 4, most employees are required to wear a mask in most businesses.



---------------------------------



CHINA has a VACCINE for Covid 19 

They are now, as of this week, vaccinating MILITARY only.  It is not for the civilian population.  Logically it is actually a wide scale clinical trial and the military in China is being used as their test rats.  

Worth keeping an eye on this.


----------



## Jim_S RIP

The NY Times is Misrepresenting the Death Curve, and There are Consequences
Posted at 12:15 pm on July 2, 2020 by mugtome gusts

https://www.redstate.com/diary/mugt...g-the-death-curve-and-there-are-consequences/

I’ve been watching this virus since November last year, and I’ve been tracking CDC data for at-least 3 month now.  The NY Times is mis-representing the virus death curve.  I’ve had suspicions for a while, but the cat was let out of the bag on June 25th, when New Jersey reclassified 1877 previous deaths as covid-19 deaths, and the NY Times reported them as June 25th deaths.  What the NY Times is tracking is not time of death, but time of determination that death was caused by Covid-19.  I discussed this in the prior diary, but I don’t think I made a strong enough case as to the repercussions of this.

So here, I’m reposting the graph of excessive deaths from death certificate tracking (which is time of death based) and NY Times data (which is time of reported cause of death based):

The total number of deaths between the two isn’t far off.  Depending on what is considered ‘normal’, the entire death certificate based curve can be shift up or down.  But the shape will not change.  Why is this important?


The death curve isn’t flattened.  Flattening the curve was a complete failure.
People are no longer dying by the thousands every week from the virus.  NY Times reporting makes it look so, causing distress in the public.
Politicians react to the NY Times reporting and justify bad policy
And now, research groups are using the same method I used and coming to the wrong conclusion.  USA Today just reported on a research group that used a similar method that I used, didn’t know that the NY Times is not reporting time of death (it took me a while to truly realize this too), and now is using the difference between the curves to conclude that an extra 50,000 or so people died from the virus.  They are comparing dissimilar data and drawing bad conclusions.  Expect the press to run with this and continue their reign or terror reporting.

I’ll publish a full update this weekend when the next batch of CDC data drops.  But the misrepresentation of the death curve is starting to have  staggering consequences.


----------



## Melensdad

I've seen a lot of graphs and charts that are very misleading.

Honestly from BOTH sides of the political spectrum there are misrepresentations.  

We know a lot more than we knew when this really started to grab hold in March of this year. 


We now know it kills the elderly at abnormally high rates.  
We also know it kills people with pre-existing conditions like high blood pressure (_even if controlled_) and diabetes (_even if controlled_) and autoimmune disorders.  
We know it kills people at higher rates if they have multiple underlying conditions.  
We know that in states & countries where bars/similar establishments are open the cases tend to spread faster.
We know it kills people with COPD and similar conditions.  
But we also know that people under 50 pretty much don't die from this.  People over 65 are taking their chances.  
We know that contact spread _(via grocery shopping, UPS delivery, etc)_ is almost nil.  
We know that human to human transmission is how this spreads.  
We know that masks dramatically slow the spread of the disease but they don't really protect the wearer of the mask (_unless its a really good mask_) but realistically washing your hands and not touching your face protects you as well as even a good mask.  
We know that asymptomatic and mildly symptomatic people are the main cause of spread, and simply talking will expel enough virus into the air to get another person in close proximity sick.
We know that CHILDREN, while they may get sick, typically have VERY mild issues.
We know that human to human contact of only a few minutes is all takes to spread it.
We don't know why some young people (_below age 50_) get very sick but others exhibit almost no issues.


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## pirate_girl

Looks like here we go again (possibly).
Just when our state has started the slow re-open, bars are closing again, school year may not start in the fall.
Fireworks displays that were going to happen this weekend are now being cancelled.
Sigh...


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## Melensdad

pirate_girl said:


> Looks like here we go again (possibly).
> Just when our state has started the slow re-open, bars are closing again,* school year may not start in the fall.*
> Fireworks displays that were going to happen this weekend are now being cancelled.
> Sigh...



*We need to get the kids back into school. * 

BUT any child with underlying condition, or living in a home with an "at risk" parent should stick with On-Line eduction.  All the other kids need to be back in school.  Put in a plan to protect the "at risk" teachers and faculty members.  Put in a plan to protect the "at risk" students/families.  Open the schools.  If there is an outbreak it will, statistically, not be a big deal.  Kids will get it, get over it, and everyone moves on. Kids will spread it to some healthy parents, who will get it, they will NEED to self-isolate so as not to infect co-workers and others, but they will get over it in a couple weeks and the world will move forward.

*The key will be to protect the vulnerable population in any sort of scenario like this.*

Notre Dame is reopening.  Isolating the kids ON CAMPUS with special dorms, lots of testing, covid recovery dorms, etc.  Vulnerable populations will be on-line.  NO TRAVEL will be allowed.  Parents don't get to come and visit.  Students will be told not to leave campus to go to off campus bars (_we'll see if that works_).


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## pirate_girl

I agree with getting the kids back to school.
My grandkids are having a fit wanting to get back at it.
The other day when I was in Bowling Green, those 3 college kids I spoke to said while their parents have been helping them financially, they miss classes, the classroom experience.
They've been doing everything from doordash to working in pizza shops and bookstores.


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## Melensdad

Key vaccine trial from Moderna has been delayed by protocol changes but still hopes to start human Phase 3 trials before the end of July.  

LINK —> https://www.statnews.com/2020/07/02...estigators-say-but-july-start-still-possible/


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## pirate_girl

Speaking of:
This was in today's Delphos Herald.

Thursday, July 2, 2020 4:20 PM
COLUMBUS —Governor Mike DeWine announced guidelines for Ohio’s schools to reopen this fall Thursday afternoon.
“While teachers and students did outstanding with distance learning, the American Academy of Pediatrics strongly recommends students be physically present in school as much as possible. To keep schools open, our guidelines are designed to create the safest environment possible for our students and staff,” DeWine said. “Working with educators and health officials, we’ve created K-12 school guidelines – backed by science – for schools to follow when developing their reopening plans. Schools can adjust their rules to what works best for them for a safe environment and that protects students and staff from the spread of COVID-19.”

Guidelines include:

• Vigilantly assess for symptoms

• Wash and sanitize hands to prevent spread

• Thoroughly clean and sanitize school environment to limit spread on shared surfaces

• Practice social distancing

• Implement face coverings policy

“Just as we have done in the business sector with employees, we are requiring school staff to wear face coverings to reduce the spread of the virus, unless it is unsafe or when doing so could significantly interfere with the learning process. Because of the importance of face masks in slowing the spread of COVID-19, schools must establish a face mask policy. In doing so, they should consider all the available science,” DeWine said. “When face coverings aren’t practical, face shields may be considered. For example, wearing a face mask could make communication more difficult when teachers are interacting with students with disabilities or students who are learning a foreign language.”

The guidelines were no surprise to Delphos City Schools Superintendent Doug Westrick.

“We were well aware these would more than likely be things we needed to do and we’re going to make sure these things happen,” he said.

All districts will have to submit a plan to reopen their schools to the county health department just like they did for graduation and kindergarten screenings.

“We have been working on a plan with all Allen County Schools with the same policies in place,” Westrick said. “Each school will look a little different because they are set up different. We will make our buildings as safe as possible.

“We should have our plan finalized by the end of the month. We’ve been working on this for awhile. We’ve been preparing for several scenarios. Good to hear Mr. DeWine said we can come back five days a week. We will continue to work on a plan in case we have to shut down again. We want to be prepared no matter what happens.”

Delphos schools will open for the 2020-21 school year on Aug. 19.

To meet these guidelines, school districts will likely incur an outlay of funds.

“To reopen school safely, there will be unforeseen expenses schools will face. I’ll work with the Ohio General Assembly to ensure federal CARES Act dollars are available to Ohio school districts to help with these costs,” DeWine said.

The COVID-19 Health and Prevention Guidance for Ohio K-12 Schools will be available online at coronavirus.ohio.com soon.

Thursday’s date:

There were 52,865 cases and 2,876 deaths. There were 7,911 hospitalizations with 2,008 ICU admissions.


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## NorthernRedneck

pirate_girl said:


> I agree with getting the kids back to school.
> 
> My grandkids are having a fit wanting to get back at it.
> 
> The other day when I was in Bowling Green, those 3 college kids I spoke to said while their parents have been helping them financially, they miss classes, the classroom experience.
> 
> They've been doing everything from doordash to working in pizza shops and bookstores.


Our provincial leader has already said that school will look different in the fall. No more than 15 students per class. Students will stay in the same classroom with the same teacher. Not sure what that means for high school students. What I do see happening is that students may go to school on alternate days with online learning still happening when they're at home. 

I'm not sure how that's going to work in regards to child care on days when students aren't in school for families with both parents working.


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## pirate_girl

It's going to be very interesting to see how well these back to school plans fall into place.
So much to think about for all involved.
It's not going to be as easy as some may be expecting.


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## Bannedjoe

I had to make a trip to the big city today for some glasses.
Phx and Vegas are about the same distance, except Vegas is a much easier drive.

I haven't been to a big city in ages, and certainly not since covid landed.

I felt like I was in the twilight zone.
People were all acting like zombies, and all in their masks and gloves.
It appears that most small businesses are still closed.

People in the eyeglass store were chasing around behind everyone sanitizing everything, and offering hand sanitizer at every turn.

It's just all too unreal for me.

I couldn't wait to get back home.

Oh, and some butthead ran me off onto the shoulder while going down the highway.
He saw me, knew he was in the wrong, but pulled into my lane anyway forcing me to the shoulder doing 65.


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## NorthernRedneck

Exactly. We struggled for 3 months trying to homeschool 6 kids online with very slow internet that kicks out every time the neighbors down the street fart. And my wife's work was expecting her to be able to work from home. What a joke. Her job requires her to b on the phone and also online flipping bac and forth between screens. Next to impossible here.


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## NorthernRedneck

CBC News up here is reporting that the border could be closed for up to a year. 

https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1757790275741


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## Jim_S RIP

CA Gov Newsom Shuts Down Majority of State’s Wineries for 4th of July – But Not His Own
Posted at 6:30 pm on July 2, 2020 by Jennifer Van Laar

https://www.redstate.com/jenvanlaar...tes-wineries-for-4th-of-july-but-not-his-own/

As we’ve previously covered, California Supreme Ruler Gov. Gavin Newsom issued an unprecedented shutdown order, effective immediately and lasting for at least three weeks, for food and entertainment-related businesses in 19 counties on his coronavirus “watch list.” The closures affect approximately 70 percent of the state’s residents, covering the entirety of Southern California except for San Diego County, most of the Central Valley, and suburban counties between San Francisco and Sacramento.

Wineries, a popular destination on a summer holiday weekend, were forced to close in the affected counties. Californians who’d planned on visiting places like Temecula or Santa Barbara or the Santa Ynez Valley or Fairfield or the Santa Clara Valley to celebrate Independence Day with some local wines face a tough choice: either stay home or find an open winery somewhere like San Diego County or Napa County.

Napa County, where Gov. Gavin Newsom’s business, PlumpJack Wines, operates four wineries – wineries with tasting rooms that are open all weekend long and booked solid.

Well, isn’t that convenient.

Newsom founded PlumpJack back in 1992 with a family friend, Gordon Getty, starting with a wine store in San Francisco and expanding to the winery a few years later. Eventually they formed the PlumpJack Group, which has multiple wineries, retail stores, restaurants, and a Squaw Valley resort in its portfolio. Its president is Newsom’s sister, Hillary.

His bio on the winery site reads:



> In 1992, Gavin Newsom opened his first business, PlumpJack Wines, combining his passion for wine and his driving entrepreneurial spirit. Over the next decade, the PlumpJack Group began to grow under his leadership to include many of the restaurants, wineries, and retail establishments in the current portfolio. In 2003, Newsom was elected the 42nd Mayor of San Francisco, and in 2019 was sworn in as the Governor of California. He lives with his wife and First Partner, Jennifer Siebel-Newsom, along with their four children in Sacramento, California.”



After Newsom was elected governor in 2018 he placed his PlumpJack Group assets into a blind trust managed by a long-time family friend. A Los Angeles Times article quotes Bob Stern, who co-authored California’s Political Reform Act, as saying that even though Newsom isn’t managing the assets, he could still “face a possible conflict of interest as governor” and explained:



> State law does not require Newsom to divest from PlumpJack Group or release the names of his business associates. And Newsom can legally sign bills or take executive action beneficial to his companies if those decisions affect all Californians or a significant segment of the population in the same way they affect him.



Even though that asset is in a blind trust, Newsom is obviously aware that leaving Napa County open while many surrounding counties and their wineries are closed is beneficial to his business. Do his executive orders affect a significant segment of the population in the same way they affect him? Considering that the criteria for opening and closing and which businesses are affected and how seems to change daily, many would say the answer to that is no.


----------



## Jim_S RIP

WHO Now Says China Did Not Inform Them of the Coronavirus in Late 2019
BY RICK MORAN JUL 03, 2020 8:21 AM EST

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politi...-them-of-the-coronavirus-in-late-2019-n602454

Very quietly, the World Health Organization dropped a bombshell on the world yesterday when they casually changed their timeline on the coronavirus to reflect the fact that China did not, as they originally reported, inform the WHO of the coronavirus in late 2019. Instead, international health officials discovered the virus through information posted on a U.S. website.

Both China and the WHO had been pushing the narrative that there was transparency in China’s actions in responding to the threat because they informed the international health organization of the coronavirus right away. That proved to be a lie — a lie that was fed and nurtured by Chinese propagandists and WHO officials who were in China’s pocket.

Washington Free Beacon:



> China and its allies at the WHO insisted in multiple interviews and press conferences that China came to the health organization with information about the virus. This is now known to be false. The WHO’s backtracking lends credibility to a recent congressional investigation that determined China concealed information about the virus and did not initially inform the WHO, as it was required to do.
> 
> The WHO’s updated timeline, posted online this week, now states that officials first learned about the virus on Dec. 31, 2019, through information posted on a U.S. website by doctors working in Wuhan, where the virus first emerged. This contradicts the agency’s initial timeline, which said that China first presented this information at that date.



The Chinese communists lie for a living. They are very good at it and have been practicing for nearly 75 years. But if there were any doubts that Trump did the right thing in cutting funding for the WHO, these reports should convince them (it won’t but that’s another story). The WHO is not about being a world watchdog and an early warning system for the deadly threats we face. From the Ebola outbreak to swine flu to other recent infectious disease epidemics, the WHO has proven itself to be inept, corrupt, and beholden to powerful interests.

Rep. Michael McCaul is a member of the China Task Force in the House and their report, released last month, first disclosed the untruthful timeline posted by the WHO.



> I’m glad to see the WHO and the Chinese Communist Party have both read my interim report on the origins of the pandemic and are finally admitting to the world the truth—the CCP never reported the virus outbreak to the WHO in violation of WHO regulation,” McCaul told the Washington Free Beacon in a statement. “The question now is whether the CCP will continue their false propaganda campaign that continues to claim they warned the world, or whether they will come clean and begin to work with the world health community to get to the bottom of this deadly pandemic.”
> 
> McCaul’s report makes clear that WHO director general Adhanom parroted China’s claim about self-reporting the virus.
> 
> “Director General Tedros actively engaged in an effort to defend the CCP’s leadership from criticism, negatively impacting the world’s understanding of the virus and hampering the global response effort,” the report concluded.



Of course, this is a non-news story. The major media outlets in the U.S. are too heavily invested in the China narrative to alter it now. What are they going to do? Issue a correction or apology or even an explanation?

There have been several studies published about what would have happened if Trump had acted sooner. So many lives saved. So many fewer cases.

Wouldn’t you like to see a study on how many lives were lost worldwide because of China and the WHO’s lies?


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## Bannedjoe

Nothing the WHO or the .gov says is ever going to earn my trust or respect.

Here's an excerpt from a conversation I had with my brother this morning summing up my take on the whole thing. His kids are 17 & 19 and are quarantined with him and his wife at home. 

Him: 
Sounds like you don't subscribe to it being real. It's killing people. And if it's not as bad as it looks then I wear a mask for nothing. I'm ok with that. If I get sick or get someone I love sick or kill them, I couldn't live with that.

Me:
It's a mixed bag.
There's the yearly flu, it kills people.
There's no cure for it. People get the vaccine, and yet some still catch it.
Maybe because it mutates? I don't know.
I guess I'm more of the school that the big guy takes you when it's your time regardless of where you are or what you're doing.
I don't get colds, I've never caught the flu. I just don't get sick.
Even when my wife is ill.

I believe this flu is real, but I also believe the planet has way over reacted.
Remember when aids showed up and killed many many millions?
They didn't shut anything down, not even gay bars.
All the world loves a crises, and apparently needs awful things to worry about and focus on.
I don't wish to hide under a rock and spend everyday hiding.
You only get today, tomorrow is not promised. I say why ruin today hoping things will be better tomorrow?

I understand what you're thinking.
You probably have a better chance of your kids giving it to you though, than you giving it to your kids.

On a similar note, if they reported on the news every single death, from every single cause everyday, people would be petrified to get out of bed in the morning.
I just can't live like that.
Caution is ok, just like with driving. You have to be relatively careful, but I'm not going to quit driving just because there's a chance of getting killed in a wreck every time I do.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

Something to think about. Canada hasn't been in a rush to reopen everything and essentially stick our heads in the sand pretending that this virus doesn't exist. True, we have a much smaller population than the usa. But per capita, our numbers are much lower as we're doing what needs to be done.


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## Backyardski

Well captain distracto has had me thinking about all kinds of stupid culture war shit that doesn’t really matter to me especially during a pandemic, and it worked. I wasn’t really taking into consideration until now that the same horror that happened in NYC in March/April /May is happening/beginning in many parts of the country now. They are filling ICU’s. It’s going to get really ugly. RT and % positivity in those areas are high. Now they are running out of PPE, hey Jared wasn’t that your project? Supply chain? Oh right the campaign.
https://rt.live/

The Finger Lakes region of NY is in phase 4 of reopening. One of my sons has his first baseball game of the rescheduled spring season this Saturday, another son just had his first gymnastics practice since the gym reopened. We got a survey from the school asking how we felt about returning in the fall. We are comfortable with it because- knock on wood- we are seeing only 1.8% positivity and 3.9 positive tests/100,000 people on a 7 day rolling average.  Life is pretty normal here, stores are open,  restaurants are at 50% capacity still, bars are setting up outdoor areas. The kids friends come swimming and dirt biking and get to be kids. Almost everyone around here puts a mask on to go in a store, no one likes it but it’s just a small grumble at this point. People are traveling and that is going to bring the numbers up in time I’d guess.
Call Cuomo a dick all you want, NY flattened the curve, like Canada and Europe. A large portion of the US didn’t follow cdc reopening guidelines, were encouraged to open early even, and are in big and going to get bigger trouble. It sucks for the frontline workers, it sucks for the people that get admitted, worse for the people that get intubated and a good percentage of those that will die. It is also terrible for their families and the economy. But hey, haircuts

*Warning! This part might be offensive to snowflakes and deniers*

Where the f@@k is the corona virus task force? Where’s Pence?! Trump?! They are doing everything they can to avoid talking about it. Trump is throwing pseudo-blah blah at the real scientists that understand what happens when this virus spreads. Don’t they care? “ It’s going to go away. You must open schools” Yeah, if there isn’t an exponential outbreak going on! Sheesh. Winning.

I read Banded Joe’s post http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?p=20727502#post20727502 about living life and worrying about the stuff that’s close and personal and not get worked up about the crap. I’m going to give that a shot myself. I have enjoyed going back and forth on the forum, it’s mentally stimulating and also enlightening. We have been programmed to be outraged and to pick a side. That shit is out of control and everyone needs to simmer down. Remember last election when the Russians used social media to stoke division? They used trolls and exploited hot button topics raising the temperature for both sides. I don’t think it’s just the Russians this election cycle. Anyway, I’m really going to take a break and try to limit myself to the snowcat section *for real* this time. It’s been fun jumping into the fray with you all, even if I pissed a few folks off along the way. 

Stay healthy everyone.

Mike


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## pirate_girl

Stay healthy everyone?
Yeah, you too.


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## Backyardski

pirate_girl said:


> Stay healthy everyone?
> Yeah, you too.



Yes. I know I pissed you off. Wasn’t my intention. I have a different view of trump then you. You aren’t wrong for your beliefs, they are your beliefs. I’m sorry you can’t accept mine


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## pirate_girl

Backyardski said:


> Yes. I know I pissed you off. Wasn’t my intention. I have a different view of trump then you. You aren’t wrong for your beliefs, they are your beliefs. I’m sorry you can’t accept mine



No you didn't piss me off.
Lots of people have different views on Trump than me.
Including some of my own family members.
So...
There you go.
Have a glorious day.


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## Backyardski

pirate_girl said:


> Stay healthy everyone?
> Yeah, you too.



Sorry for the misunderstanding, I read that as sarcasm.


----------



## jimbo

NorthernRedneck said:


> Exactly. We struggled for 3 months trying to homeschool 6 kids online with very slow internet that kicks out every time the neighbors down the street fart. And my wife's work was expecting her to be able to work from home. What a joke. Her job requires her to b on the phone and also online flipping bac and forth between screens. Next to impossible here.



My teacher/daughter tells me that the plan here is to open the schools in September but the kids will go 2-3 days a week, and interactive on line the rest. 

I have no idea how that's supposed to work.  Seems to me like the worst of all worlds.


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## EastTexFrank

Backyardski said:


> Anyway, I’m really going to take a break and try to limit myself to the snowcat section *for real* this time. It’s been fun jumping into the fray with you all, even if I pissed a few folks off along the way.
> 
> Stay healthy everyone.
> 
> Mike



Oh man, don't do that.  I enjoy hearing opinions from a different perspective.  It makes me stop and think and that's a GOOD thing.

I don't think that you have pissed anybody off.  Some may have disagreed with you but that doesn't mean that they are pissed off.  Besides, all of us on this board tend to march in step and that's not necessarily a good thing either.  We've chased off some good, fun and interesting members over the years because their views didn't line up with the majority.  Stick around.


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## m1west

EastTexFrank said:


> Oh man, don't do that.  I enjoy hearing opinions from a different perspective.  It makes me stop and think and that's a GOOD thing.
> 
> I don't think that you have pissed anybody off.  Some may have disagreed with you but that doesn't mean that they are pissed off.  Besides, all of us on this board tend to march in step and that's not necessarily a good thing either.  We've chased off some good, fun and interesting members over the years because their views didn't line up with the majority.  Stick around.



I agree, if everyone don't agree to disagree then its not a discussion or debate its a liberal college.:th_lmao:


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## Backyardski

EastTexFrank said:


> Oh man, don't do that.  I enjoy hearing opinions from a different perspective.  It makes me stop and think and that's a GOOD thing.
> 
> I don't think that you have pissed anybody off.  Some may have disagreed with you but that doesn't mean that they are pissed off.  Besides, all of us on this board tend to march in step and that's not necessarily a good thing either.  We've chased off some good, fun and interesting members over the years because their views didn't line up with the majority.  Stick around.



Thanks ETF,

Well, maybe I’ll jump in from time to time. I suppose people have the option to not read my posts if they cause them grief. 

But really, what’s  the strategy in letting the virus spread uncontrollably? There are simple steps to contain it with minimal action, and one mans ego is undermining the cause. NY tests more per capita than anywhere, tests don’t cause cases they reveal them. Rally in Tulsa? No masks no social distancing, what was the expectation? It’s almost as if the goal is to accelerate the spread. If the hope is a vaccine by the end of the year then why not do the basic steps to wait it out? I’m also curious if Mitch will oppose helping the red states as he opposes helping the blue (I live in a blue so it effects me, it will effect the red in a short time). It’s not a political virus. It won’t magically go away. 
Facts, data, science are a lot more reliable than pipe dreams and trying to pretend it’s not happening.

This forum is a hard habit to kick!


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## Melensdad

FWIW here is the summary update from ZeroHedge.  



> US Reports Another Record Single-Day Jump In COVID-19 Infections: Live Updates
> Summary:
> 
> US reports 60k+ new cases for first time, per JHU & BBG
> DeSantis says schools will reopen safely in August
> NYC mayor cancels all big public events
> Texas reports 3rd straight record death
> Wisconsin sees biggest daily jump
> South Africa sees another record jump
> California reports record jump in deaths
> Cali Gov holds press briefing
> WHO begins 'independent' review of COVID-19 response
> Italy bars travelers from 13 countries as cases creep higher
> Arizona reports new cases
> NYT names Arizona "world's worst COVID-19 hotspot"
> Florida reports record jump in deaths, hospitalizations
> Goldman: 40% of US population lives in states where reopening has been rolled back or delayed
> US single-day tally tops 60k again
> At least 5 states reported record single-day cases on Wednesday
> Global total tops 12 million
> 7-day average death rate creeps higher
> Tokyo, Hong Kong report single-day highs of new cases
> India reported 22.7k new cases
> Victoria reports another 165 new cases
> Beijing slams US over WHO pullout
> * * *
> 
> Update (1850ET): Preliminary counts of new cases reported in the US on Thursday shows the US on track for another record jump, at least the second in the past week, though the exact numbers vary between sources. Global deaths, meanwhile, just passed 550,000.


Now we can debate if some states mistakenly double counted some cases, and we can debate how many deaths are actually from Covid-19 versus pre-existing complications.  But as I said from the early pages of this thread, just counting DEATHS and/or comparing DEATH RATES to other diseases is incomplete and we should look at some of the other factors in addition.  Such as overwhelming our healthcare system, the length of time some people are sick, the economic costs, food shortages/price hikes related to the disease, etc.

I consider it great news that the death rate is lower than projected, that they are finding ways to treat this disease but we are still not very close.  We don't need to live in fear, but we should live in consideration of those who may be seriously at risk.

We are still clearly in the 1st wave of this thing.  It is not something to fear but it clearly kills people with preexisting conditions.  There are a lot more questions than answers.






Backyardski said:


> . . . what’s  the strategy in letting the virus spread uncontrollably? There are simple steps to contain it with minimal action, . . . NY tests more per capita than anywhere, tests don’t cause cases they reveal them. Rally in Tulsa? No masks no social distancing, what was the expectation? It’s almost as if the goal is to accelerate the spread. If the hope is a vaccine by the end of the year then why not do the basic steps to wait it out?. . . It’s not a political virus. It won’t magically go away.
> Facts, data, science are a lot more reliable than pipe dreams and trying to pretend it’s not happening.
> 
> *This forum is a hard habit to kick!*



To your last point ... GOOD, stick around, we need your voice here 

To all your questions and your points, I agree with you.  Seems to me there is a lot of denial and stupidity going on in the world.

My state recommends masks, does not require them.  My priest at church won't wear one except as mandated per specific activities.  Our school district actually voted on if kids should wear masks at school when the school reopens (_the pro-mask group won_).  

Common sense and personal responsibility can curtail this virus until the scientists can find either an effective treatment or a vaccine or both.  But we seem to lack a lot of common sense these days.


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## m1west

Backyardski said:


> Thanks ETF,
> 
> Well, maybe I’ll jump in from time to time. I suppose people have the option to not read my posts if they cause them grief.
> 
> But really, what’s  the strategy in letting the virus spread uncontrollably? There are simple steps to contain it with minimal action, and one mans ego is undermining the cause. NY tests more per capita than anywhere, tests don’t cause cases they reveal them. Rally in Tulsa? No masks no social distancing, what was the expectation? It’s almost as if the goal is to accelerate the spread. If the hope is a vaccine by the end of the year then why not do the basic steps to wait it out? I’m also curious if Mitch will oppose helping the red states as he opposes helping the blue (I live in a blue so it effects me, it will effect the red in a short time). It’s not a political virus. It won’t magically go away.
> Facts, data, science are a lot more reliable than pipe dreams and trying to pretend it’s not happening.
> 
> This forum is a hard habit to kick!



Facts and science, say most likely everyone is going to get it, or a vaccine will be developed first. The problem with getting a vaccine is science has not been very successful at that due to mutation.( and this virus has already mutated ) Every year the Flu mutates ( which is a corona virus ) and the vaccine is only about 40-50% effective. Thats why its back year over year. If you have some condition that will make you high risk and you're scared stay home. Otherwise its going to be like pulling that bandaid off very slowly. China has taken that approach. They had the virus 3-6 months before we did and they still have outbreak hotspots that close down major cities. Then there is the economy. The left is playing politics with it and are hurting there own citizens. Like Debozo shutting businesses again canceling all outdoor events except protesting ??, while doing photo opps painting BLM in front of Trump tower. Trump didn't bring this virus here, China did. If not for early actions by Trump like closing the border to China and Europe ( both things the left opposed including your hero Cuomo ) a lot more people would have gotten it. Its OK to have an opinion but they should be factual.


----------



## Melensdad




----------



## Backyardski

m1west said:


> Facts and science, say most likely everyone is going to get it, or a vaccine will be developed first. The problem with getting a vaccine is science has not been very successful at that due to mutation.( and this virus has already mutated ) Every year the Flu mutates ( which is a corona virus ) and the vaccine is only about 40-50% effective. Thats why its back year over year. If you have some condition that will make you high risk and you're scared stay home. Otherwise its going to be like pulling that bandaid off very slowly. China has taken that approach. They had the virus 3-6 months before we did and they still have outbreak hotspots that close down major cities. Then there is the economy. The left is playing politics with it and are hurting there own citizens. Like Debozo shutting businesses again canceling all outdoor events except protesting ??, while doing photo opps painting BLM in front of Trump tower. Trump didn't bring this virus here, China did. If not for early actions by Trump like closing the border to China and Europe ( both things the left opposed including your hero Cuomo ) a lot more people would have gotten it. Its OK to have an opinion but they should be factual.



I’ve got a pretty good grasp of the facts. Duhblahblahzio is outside, with a mask. Next to no risk in that behavior, who cares what he’s doing- that’s political. Look at the US vs Europe curve. The whole purpose of the mask is to contain the droplets of asymptotic carriers, it keeps you from getting other people sick.NYC is a different animal with density than upstate, that’s why they are behind in the reopening. A second closing is far more disastrous to the economy than a phased reopening. It will spread but it is more prudent to have it spread at a rate that doesn’t exceed capacity.

This graph is 11 days old, worse now


----------



## Backyardski

I tried to add dummy took off his mask for a speech after, that’s stupid behavior that is a bad example.


----------



## Backyardski

I don’t pay much attention to NYC news, six hours away and not my favorite place to visit. 
This Fox story explains the reasoning. Don’t pack people tight together and give the restaurants room to have outdoor seating and the public to have space to move about

https://www.fox5ny.com/news/nyc-cancels-all-large-events-through-september-30


----------



## m1west

Backyardski said:


> I’ve got a pretty good grasp of the facts. Duhblahblahzio is outside, with a mask. Next to no risk in that behavior, who cares what he’s doing- that’s political. Look at the US vs Europe curve. The whole purpose of the mask is to contain the droplets of asymptotic carriers, it keeps you from getting other people sick.NYC is a different animal with density than upstate, that’s why they are behind in the reopening. A second closing is far more disastrous to the economy than a phased reopening. It will spread but it is more prudent to have it spread at a rate that doesn’t exceed capacity.
> 
> This graph is 11 days old, worse now



I think your graph in the future will show Europe with a very Long tail just like China. If the current conditions remain the same in the US soon it will drop off sharply due to heard immunity. Assuming a vaccine is not right around the corner as history has shown, like I said before everyone is going to get it. It can be a sharp peak and drop off or a long low decline. If the first model does not overwhelm the system, its a better model. The system has not been overwhelmed or even close. The longer it drags on there will be restrictions and restrictions cost the economy. If the economy fails, deaths from the China flu will be minimal in comparison. Right now its artificially being propped up with free money for everyone to live. That will not last forever and when it ends the Us better be back to work or things will become much worse. Think about the Titanic it didn't sink right away. That is where our economy is, the water is coming in and the pumps won't keep up. If the hole is not plugged we suffer the same fate.


----------



## Backyardski

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.texasobserver.org/covid-19-rural-hospitals-texas/amp/

Texas hospitals are getting close.

Herd immunity is unlikely with Covid. Do a google, plenty of articles on the matter


----------



## m1west

Backyardski said:


> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.texasobserver.org/covid-19-rural-hospitals-texas/amp/
> 
> Texas hospitals are getting close.
> 
> Herd immunity is unlikely with Covid. Do a google, plenty of articles on the matter



Close but no cigar. When i google covid19 herd immunity, I find articles like this one from yesterday.


----------



## pixie

I read recently that Tom Hanks and his wife who both had COVID are having decreasing levels of antibodies pointing to the possibility that immunity soon after recovering may not be a lasting thing.


----------



## Backyardski

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases...th/herd-immunity-and-coronavirus/art-20486808


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-europe-53315983


https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/from-ou...ty-against-covid-19-a-dangerous-misconception


https://www.google.com/amp/s/thecon...munity-wont-solve-our-covid-19-problem-139724

There are dozens more....


----------



## m1west

pixie said:


> I read recently that Tom Hanks and his wife who both had COVID are having decreasing levels of antibodies pointing to the possibility that immunity soon after recovering may not be a lasting thing.



If that is true its another reason to get it over with, Hanks had it at least 3 months ago. If everyone without conditions get it and get over it. It will be much better for those at risk as long as they stay safe while that happens. If everyone gets it and gets over it before the immunity wears off it will die out on its own. If not and a vaccine lags, it will start over every year.


----------



## Melensdad

pixie said:


> I read recently that Tom Hanks and his wife who both had COVID are having decreasing levels of antibodies pointing to the possibility that immunity soon after recovering may not be a lasting thing.



This is one of the big questions.

Get a measles or a polio or a smallpox shot and you are immune for a LIFETIME

Get flu shot and you are immune for about 6 months to that specific strain of the flu but not to other strains.

So nobody really knows how long immunity will last if you get Covid.  If you get it and you are not immune after 6 months that means you can get it over-and-over again.  BUT that does not take into account T-cells and other bodily immunoresponses.  So we may have immunity for longer, we really just don't know.  

New evidence comes out almost every day.







m1west said:


> If that is true its another reason to get it over with, Hanks had it at least 3 months ago. If everyone without conditions get it and get over it. It will be much better for those at risk as long as they stay safe while that happens. If everyone gets it and gets over it before the immunity wears off* it will die out on its own. *If not and a vaccine lags, it will start over every year.



Actually NO it won't die out.  It will come back again and again because it is in different stages in different parts of the world and even within different parts of the nation.  So no way it will die out.  Hell we still have the bubonic plague and lepercy in parts of the world.


----------



## m1west

Backyardski said:


> https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases...th/herd-immunity-and-coronavirus/art-20486808
> 
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-europe-53315983
> 
> 
> https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/from-ou...ty-against-covid-19-a-dangerous-misconception
> 
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/thecon...munity-wont-solve-our-covid-19-problem-139724
> 
> There are dozens more....



Without a vaccine herd immunity is the only way even if it goes through 2021, its the only way to stop it. Until its gone it can spike up anywhere. And yes the cases are spiking up I'm not seeing the mortality rate spike up. That may change but right not it is not. Plow through it or deal with it forever.


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> *Without a vaccine herd immunity is the only way even if it goes through 2021*, its the only way to stop it. Until its gone it can spike up anywhere. And yes the cases are spiking up I'm not seeing the mortality rate spike up. That may change but right not it is not. Plow through it or deal with it forever.



True but even in Sweden and in NYC, both areas very hard hit, they don't believe that they are even close to attain herd immunity.  So it is very unlikely to happen. Not sure we will ever see a vaccine either.  That NYC immunity is only partial and waning.


My zip code has a stunning 0.39% infection rate.  Not a chance we will attain herd immunity.  Ever.  There are some Zip Codes south of me that are even lower.  But up in the city areas you can find 2% or even 5%


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> True but even in Sweden and in NYC, both areas very hard hit, they don't believe that they are even close to attain herd immunity.  So it is very unlikely to happen. Not sure we will ever see a vaccine either.  That NYC immunity is only partial and waning.
> 
> 
> My zip code has a stunning 0.39% infection rate.  Not a chance we will attain herd immunity.  Ever.  There are some Zip Codes south of me that are even lower.  But up in the city areas you can find 2% or even 5%



So where does all of this leave us? I think we agree that a vaccine that is 100% effective likely will never come due to mutations. Herd immunity may be a iffy proposition anytime soon and as you pointed out there is still the plague floating around out there. I don't think everyone staying home is going to work out in the long run either. Maybe therapeutic treatment to minimize death is the only avenue. If its here to stay, I don't care how careful you are odds say at some point you're getting it.


----------



## Backyardski

Drs Fauchi and Birx were doing a good job explaining all of this before trump turned the daily briefings into word salads

Again- not a Cuomo fan, but listen to what an informative corona virus briefing sounds like sometime. He’ll probably say a few things about trumps approach that might offend devotees but that is kind of the point. Opinions don’t matter with the virus, facts matter, science matters, data matters. Fauchi hasn’t briefed Trump in over two weeks, not by choice

Where it leaves us is reducing the prevalence in the community, having contact tracers to get outbreaks under control, adjust our behavior so businesses can reopen. Our hospitals nearly went broke when elective procedures were paused. They’ve canceled them in Texas, probably other states too but I haven’t read that yet. Wasn’t this all under control, we’d just quickly tamp out the burning embers? I’m thinking that approach isn’t working


----------



## Backyardski

My mistake, months not weeks

https://theweek.com/speedreads/924772/fauci-says-hasnt-briefed-trump-covid19-2-months


----------



## m1west

Backyardski said:


> Drs Fauchi and Birx were doing a good job explaining all of this before trump turned the daily briefings into word salads
> 
> Again- not a Cuomo fan, but listen to what an informative corona virus briefing sounds like sometime. He’ll probably say a few things about trumps approach that might offend devotees but that is kind of the point. Opinions don’t matter with the virus, facts matter, science matters, data matters. Fauchi hasn’t briefed Trump in over two weeks, not by choice
> 
> Where it leaves us is reducing the prevalence in the community, having contact tracers to get outbreaks under control, adjust our behavior so businesses can reopen. Our hospitals nearly went broke when elective procedures were paused. They’ve canceled them in Texas, probably other states too but I haven’t read that yet. Wasn’t this all under control, we’d just quickly tamp out the burning embers? I’m thinking that approach isn’t working



Fauci and Birx have contradicted themselves every way that it can be done. I have 0 faith in their models. The states control their opening or not. I don't have the answer I'm not that smart and the Cristal ball broke but leaving everything shutdown staying home and doing nothing then expecting things will get better is not a plan, its the definition of insanity. The whole thing has turned political. Idiots can march wherever they want, assemble by the thousands all over the US masked and not masked holding hands and thats OK. Trump has a rally in one location with testing and thats just irresponsible and can't be tolerated.


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> *Fauci and Birx have contradicted themselves every way that it can be done. *I have 0 faith in their models. The states control their opening or not. I don't have the answer I'm not that smart and the Cristal ball broke but leaving everything shutdown staying home and doing nothing then expecting things will get better is not a plan, its the definition of insanity. The whole thing has turned political. Idiots can march wherever they want, assemble by the thousands all over the US masked and not masked holding hands and thats OK. Trump has a rally in one location with testing and thats just irresponsible and can't be tolerated.



Contradicted themselves or adapted to new evidence?  I think they actually have been adaptive.  

As for the models, generally I think a lot of them suck pretty badly and are pretty unreliable.  But so far a lot of my projections on death counts and statements I've made about hospitals being overwhelmed have been damn close to accurate.  And on top of that the ZeroHedge information has been pretty much spot on.

Totally agree that the media made everything political.  I can tell you that the big protests (not the riots) but the big organized protests in Chicago had MASK WEARING protestors.  And most of them also kept social distance too.  I know reliable people who observed some of them first hand (_not as participants_) and they indicated there was space between them and they wore masks.  

I know that the peaceful protests in my county had people wearing masks and keeping distance.

I know that the violent riots, which were different, had very few masks, saggy pants, and no social distance.

But what the MEDIA says and what is reality are typically 2 different things.  I pretty much pay attention to a bunch of news sources and sort through the crap.


----------



## Backyardski

m1west said:


> Facts and science, say most likely everyone is going to get it, or a vaccine will be developed first. The problem with getting a vaccine is science has not been very successful at that due to mutation.( and this virus has already mutated ) Every year the Flu mutates ( which is a corona virus ) and the vaccine is only about 40-50% effective. Thats why its back year over year. If you have some condition that will make you high risk and you're scared stay home. Otherwise its going to be like pulling that bandaid off very slowly. China has taken that approach. They had the virus 3-6 months before we did and they still have outbreak hotspots that close down major cities. Then there is the economy. The left is playing politics with it and are hurting there own citizens. Like Debozo shutting businesses again canceling all outdoor events except protesting ??, while doing photo opps painting BLM in front of Trump tower. Trump didn't bring this virus here, China did. If not for early actions by Trump like closing the border to China and Europe ( both things the left opposed including your hero Cuomo ) a lot more people would have gotten it. Its OK to have an opinion but they should be factual.



I heard trump say this again today. Is that supposed to mean we don’t have a coronavirus problem here in the US??  It’s a pretty silly argument for success

Oh and Cuomo ain’t my hero, just the gubna of the state I live in. Not sure why you keep thinking he and I are of the same fabric. We both think Trump is f’n up the handling of this, that’s about as far as the commonalities go


----------



## m1west

Backyardski said:


> I heard trump say this again today. Is that supposed to mean we don’t have a coronavirus problem here in the US??  It’s a pretty silly argument for success
> 
> Oh and Cuomo ain’t my hero, just the gubna of the state I live in. Not sure why you keep thinking he and I are of the same fabric. We both think Trump is f’n up the handling of this, that’s about as far as the commonalities go



 I thought Cuomo was your hero due to your earlier posts praising his corona response. It was not praise worthy. How is Trump screwing up the response? its the federal governments job to support the states. Its the Governors job to set the policy as they remind him of every time he makes a suggestion for their state. ( if the President could control state policy, there would not be sanctuary cities and states ) Mr Trump sent Cuomo 40,000 ventilators and a hospital ship that never got used. instead Cuomo sent the patients to the old folks home. Same here in Ca. The whole shutdown was about NOT overwhelming the healthcare system. That never happened at any time. Trump has had to fight the DIMS every step of the way. At first the DIMS didn't want to shut down and fought that along with closing the border with China and Europe. Then there is not enough equipment. They got the equipment. Now they don't want to open business, but its OK for 1000's to protest in lock step. If you can not acknowledge that you're a leftie pretending to be an independent. I acknowledge that no one is perfect but Trump is for this country and the left is not.


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> I thought Cuomo was your hero due to your earlier posts praising his corona response. It was not praise worthy. How is Trump screwing up the response? *its the federal governments job to support the states. Its the Governors job to set the policy as they remind him of every time he makes a suggestion for their state. *( if the President could control state policy, there would not be sanctuary cities and states ) Mr Trump sent Cuomo 40,000 ventilators and a hospital ship that never got used. instead Cuomo sent the patients to the old folks home. Same here in Ca. The whole shutdown was about NOT overwhelming the healthcare system. That never happened at any time. Trump has had to fight the DIMS every step of the way. At first the DIMS didn't want to shut down and fought that along with closing the border with China and Europe. Then there is not enough equipment. They got the equipment. Now they don't want to open business, but its OK for 1000's to protest in lock step. If you can not acknowledge that you're a leftie pretending to be an independent. I acknowledge that no one is perfect but Trump is for this country and the left is not.


True, under our form of government the Governors have more power in their respective states than the President.  I recall Cuomo & DeBlasio resisting calls to action from Trump.  I recall Cuomo sending sick Covid patients into nursing homes and killing 12,000 formerly elderly people. I recall the NYC health department welcoming tourists to the Chinese New Year parade.  I recall DeBlasio resisting closing the schools until AFTER there were hundreds of children infected.

NYC and NJ and Chicago and now Houston did have their ICU units overwhelmed.  Perhaps you don't recall, but there were refrigerated trailers parked outside hospitals holding bodies of those who died?



*NOTE TO ALL ==> * I actually placed this thread into the HEALTH & FITNESS forum to try to avoid some political bitching.  Perhaps we can discuss the disease, not the politics?  There is a political forum for heated debates, it has looser rules.  Not that we have crossed any lines.  But I think we are pushing our luck.


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> Contradicted themselves or adapted to new evidence?  I think they actually have been adaptive.
> 
> As for the models, generally I think a lot of them suck pretty badly and are pretty unreliable.  But so far a lot of my projections on death counts and statements I've made about hospitals being overwhelmed have been damn close to accurate.  And on top of that the ZeroHedge information has been pretty much spot on.
> 
> Totally agree that the media made everything political.  I can tell you that the big protests (not the riots) but the big organized protests in Chicago had MASK WEARING protestors.  And most of them also kept social distance too.  I know reliable people who observed some of them first hand (_not as participants_) and they indicated there was space between them and they wore masks.
> 
> I know that the peaceful protests in my county had people wearing masks and keeping distance.
> 
> I know that the violent riots, which were different, had very few masks, saggy pants, and no social distance.
> 
> But what the MEDIA says and what is reality are typically 2 different things.  I pretty much pay attention to a bunch of news sources and sort through the crap.



( Fauci and Birx have been adaptive) They have to because they have been wrong about most everything. When you are a healthcare expert or a scientist you should not run out and say what you are not 100% sure of. That is incompetent and leads others to make bad decisions. Don't wear masks now masks are mandatory as an example. So for the first month or so no one wore a mask because it was bad for you. If they don't know then they should say I don't know.


----------



## Backyardski

m1west said:


> I thought Cuomo was your hero due to your earlier posts praising his corona response. It was not praise worthy. How is Trump screwing up the response? its the federal governments job to support the states. Its the Governors job to set the policy as they remind him of every time he makes a suggestion for their state. ( if the President could control state policy, there would not be sanctuary cities and states ) Mr Trump sent Cuomo 40,000 ventilators and a hospital ship that never got used. instead Cuomo sent the patients to the old folks home. Same here in Ca. The whole shutdown was about NOT overwhelming the healthcare system. That never happened at any time. Trump has had to fight the DIMS every step of the way. At first the DIMS didn't want to shut down and fought that along with closing the border with China and Europe. Then there is not enough equipment. They got the equipment. Now they don't want to open business, but its OK for 1000's to protest in lock step. If you can not acknowledge that you're a leftie pretending to be an independent. I acknowledge that no one is perfect but Trump is for this country and the left is not.




Last one from me.

If your assumption about approval is true, 67% of those polled must be lefties. When the dividing line gets shoved up tight to the right I suppose everything else is left. My praise was limited to his briefings being informative.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bro...navirus-race-relations-poll/story?id=71704889


----------



## m1west

Backyardski said:


> Last one from me.
> 
> If your assumption about approval is true, 67% of those polled must be lefties. When the dividing line gets shoved up tight to the right I suppose everything else is left. My praise was limited to his briefings being informative.
> 
> https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bro...navirus-race-relations-poll/story?id=71704889



I have to go do some work right now, if we are not done lets take BOB's suggestion and go to the political debate forum with it. And yes it was reported yesterday that the poles have a higher sampling of Dems that repubs. see you in the political debate forum.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

In my opinion, masks "may" work but like all systems that involve people you have to take into consideration the lowest common denominator.  Which from my observation when out an about is that your average mask wearer really isn't doing much to prevent the spread of disease.

The masks are ill fitting, loose, and re-used too many times.  The people are generally not following other hygienic protocols and are ultimately compromising any benefits a mask might provide.

At the end of the day the "concept" of wearing a mask is useful but the reality is that it will never make that much difference when applied to the general human population.

The movie Idiocracy was not a comedy - it was a prophetic masterpiece.


----------



## EastTexFrank

PBinWA said:


> At the end of the day the "concept" of wearing a mask is useful but the reality is that it will never make that much difference when applied to the general human population.
> 
> The movie Idiocracy was not a comedy - it was a prophetic masterpiece.



I agree with you.  I have a beard so the effectiveness of the mask is reduced right there.  I wear one every time I'm out in public but realize that it is not giving the protection, if it gives any, that it should.  When I'm out in public there are still a large number of people who don't wear them at all despite the Governor's mandate.  It's usually younger people who refuse to wear them and their attitude annoys the heck out of my wife.  Add to that the number of people who wear them incorrectly.  A lot of the places that I have to go in to the people working there are wearing masks but the are pulled down and resting on their chins or they are pulled  up and resting below their nose.  Again this seems to be mainly younger people.  The attitude seems to be that at their age, if they catch it, it won't be too bad and they'll get over it quickly.  "You older people, who gives a rat's ass?".  My wife calls it the height of selfishness ... and she's right.  

Right now my county isn't overwhelmed but the cases are still ticking up.  I think that people are suffering from Corona fatigue and think that if they just ignore it, it will just go away.  All the service organizations in our little town have opened back up at a time when the infection rate is higher that it was when they were shut down.  Makes no sense to me and I'll be staying away from Rotary.  All the so-called safety precautions that they are putting in place look good on paper but are unworkable in a closed environment where people meet for lunch and fellowship.  

If you want to know when all this will end, don't ask me.  I don't have a clue.  We're still following the routine that we established when this whole thing began and I don't see an end to it.


----------



## pirate_girl

https://coronavirus.ohio.gov/wps/portal/gov/covid-19/dashboards/key-metrics/testing


----------



## EastTexFrank

pirate_girl said:


> https://coronavirus.ohio.gov/wps/portal/gov/covid-19/dashboards/key-metrics/testing
> 
> View attachment 128229



PG, I think what you are trying to tell me is that there is no need to panic.  Believe me, we're not panicked or paranoid in the slightest.  It's really an exercise in risk assessment.  Where and under what circumstances are you most likely to contact the virus?  The local Methodist Church restarted their Bible study groups and meetings.  Two people, one male and one female, were asymptomatic and infected a whole bunch of people.  Was attending the meetings worthwhile?  Not now it wasn't, especially if you are one of the ones who got infected.  

To gain herd immunity, if such a thing actually exists, you have to catch the virus.  Now, that may be fine for young people who seem to catch it and recover more quickly but it's a completely different thing for us older, health compromised individuals.  People have to assess their own risk and make their own decisions only they need to be sure that the decisions that they make don't put others at risk.  It only takes one.


----------



## m1west

EastTexFrank said:


> PG, I think what you are trying to tell me is that there is no need to panic.  Believe me, we're not panicked or paranoid in the slightest.  It's really an exercise in risk assessment.  Where and under what circumstances are you most likely to contact the virus?  The local Methodist Church restarted their Bible study groups and meetings.  Two people, one male and one female, were asymptomatic and infected a whole bunch of people.  Was attending the meetings worthwhile?  Not now it wasn't, especially if you are one of the ones who got infected.
> 
> To gain herd immunity, if such a thing actually exists, you have to catch the virus.  Now, that may be fine for young people who seem to catch it and recover more quickly but it's a completely different thing for us older, health compromised individuals.  People have to assess their own risk and make their own decisions only they need to be sure that the decisions that they make don't put others at risk.  It only takes one.



100% agree, I think you have a good understanding of the whole thing, your risk is not the average death rate of .2, you have underlying conditions which raise your odds of being hospitalized, when that happens your odds go up considerably . then if put on a ventilator its about 80% possibility of a bad outcome, near as I can figure.


----------



## Backyardski

pirate_girl said:


> https://coronavirus.ohio.gov/wps/portal/gov/covid-19/dashboards/key-metrics/testing
> 
> That’s great, it looks like OH has a good handle on it. The more tests that are done gives a clearer picture of the positivity rate. If everyone could be tested it would be easy to slow the spread and flatten the curve.
> That isn’t the case in the states that are the new hot spots. When positivity rates are high it means either- higher numbers of infected people are getting tested than not, or there are a whole lot of infections. It is easier to contact trace when you can pin point outbreaks.


----------



## bczoom

PBinWA said:


> The masks are ill fitting, loose, and re-used too many times.  The people are generally not following other hygienic protocols and are ultimately compromising any benefits a mask might provide.
> 
> At the end of the day the "concept" of wearing a mask is useful but the reality is that it will never make that much difference when applied to the general human population.


Going outwards, if a fart can go through your underwear, your pants and fill a room, I'm pretty sure the masks we're using are pretty much useless against something like covid going inwards.


----------



## Backyardski

bczoom said:


> Going outwards, if a fart can go through your underwear, your pants and fill a room, I'm pretty sure the masks we're using are pretty much useless against something like covid going inwards.



Lol, spike in google searches on size of a fart particle

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.da...jeans-stop-fart-mask-prevent-coronavirus.html


----------



## pixie

I've been house shopping. Went to look at one that had some kind of problem and all the carpets are gone. I did not smell the overpowering 'air freshener' until I took my N95 mask off. You can figure it out from there.

By the way, some N95 are made for using chemicals like paint and other 'organic vapors'.


----------



## EastTexFrank

pixie said:


> By the way, some N95 are made for using chemicals like paint and other 'organic vapors'.



Yup, I have some of those too.  They're a hold over from when I was painting the front gate and I've also used them around the house when painting and the fumes are getting bad.  I think they have a layer of activated charcoal to absorb the fumes.  At least that is what it looks like.  

My wife uses the N95 when she goes to the grocery store but absolutely hates them.  They make her feel as if she is suffocating.  I also have some with the pressure relief valve which makes breathing a little easier but that protects her but not necessarily other people around her.  I wish that I could get some more N95s but they're like hen's teeth.


----------



## Melensdad

bczoom said:


> Going outwards, if a fart can go through your underwear, your pants and fill a room, I'm pretty sure the masks we're using are pretty much useless against something like covid going inwards.



Untrue.

Sorry but covid, at least as far as we understand the transmission, needs a carrier to survive.  That carrier is basically your saliva, your sneeze droplets, etc.  Without those covid germs don't seem to actually travel.


----------



## Backyardski

It’s about time Chuck Woolery spoke up. Maybe he can take over at the CDC now that we are going with the Corona virus isn’t a thing narrative.


----------



## Backyardski

Here’s a cnn story everyone will probably agree isn’t fake news. Andy is pretty stupid sometimes, this is right up top of the list. Didn’t he see how over confidence is biting DeSantis in the ass as we speak? What a d-bag. 

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics...-cuomo-covid-19-poster-gupta-lead-sot-vpx.cnn


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> This is one of the big questions.
> 
> Get a measles or a polio or a smallpox shot and you are immune for a LIFETIME
> 
> Get flu shot and you are immune for about 6 months to that specific strain of the flu but not to other strains.
> 
> So nobody really knows how long immunity will last if you get Covid.  If you get it and you are not immune after 6 months that means you can get it over-and-over again.  BUT that does not take into account T-cells and other bodily immunoresponses.  So we may have immunity for longer, we really just don't know.
> 
> New evidence comes out almost every day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually NO it won't die out.  It will come back again and again because it is in different stages in different parts of the world and even within different parts of the nation.  So no way it will die out.  Hell we still have the bubonic plague and lepercy in parts of the world.



And you just couldn't stop yourself from bringing up the plague right Bob, now look what you have done.


----------



## pirate_girl

Got my covid test results back.


----------



## Jim_S RIP

pirate_girl said:


> Got my covid test results back.
> 
> View attachment 128356
> 
> View attachment 128357
> 
> View attachment 128358





Congratulations!

You’re good to go!


----------



## mla2ofus

m1west said:


> And you just couldn't stop yourself from bringing up the plague right Bob, now look what you have done.



 Is China becoming a giant petri dish??


----------



## EastTexFrank

pirate_girl said:


> Got my covid test results back.
> 
> View attachment 128356
> 
> View attachment 128357
> 
> View attachment 128358




GOOD!   

Please, I beg you, stay that way.  Be careful.


----------



## Jim_S RIP

mla2ofus said:


> Is China becoming a giant petri dish??




It already is!


----------



## Melensdad

I've been saying from early in this thread, it is not about death counts.

Here is the Republican Governor Tate Reeves from Mississippi, in an interesting Tweet storm about Covid and the concept of HERD IMMUNITY.  I believe some members here have suggested that we need to spread this disease around to get to herd immunity.  

*For ease, I'm just posting the content below.  But if you want to see the actual Twitter feed it is here *==> https://twitter.com/tatereeves/status/1282783825219682304

1) "Let's talk about herd immunity. I've listened to some people argue that the rapid spread of cases is a good thing, and we need to reach herd immunity in Mississippi and elsewhere to survive. I'm not a health care expert by any means, but I am a math guy. And I have thoughts:"

2) "The experts say we need 70-80% of the population to get COVID-19 to achieve herd immunity. Let's assume they're wrong (it's certainly possible, they have been before.) Let's assume they're being way overly cautious and we actually only need 40% infection for herd immunity."
close dialog

3) "In Mississippi, our population is 3 million. We've had 36,680 cases so far. We'd need 1.2 MILLION infections to achieve that hypothetical 40% threshold. (Remember, experts say it's double that.)"

4) "Over the last two weeks, our hospital system has started to become stressed to the point of pain. We are seeing the early signs and effects of it becoming overwhelmed. We had to suspend elective surgeries again."

5) "On our worst day of new cases, we had just over 1,000. It has typically been between 700-900 during this most aggressive time. To get to 40% infections, we'd need 3,187 new cases every day for a full year from today. We would need to TRIPLE our worst day -- every day -- for a year."

6) "I'm not one of these guys that immediately dismisses any idea that challenges the expert status quo talking points. I'm pretty skeptical by nature. That's healthy. But herd immunity is not anything like a realistic solution in the short or mid-term. I wish it was."

7) "Unless you're willing to go without hospitals after a car wreck or heart attack, we need a different approach. Right now, despite mixed messages at the beginning, it seems like masks are the best bet. They're a hell of a lot better than widespread shut downs. Please wear one!"​


----------



## Lenny

pirate_girl said:


> Got my covid test results back.



That's GREAT news!!!!!!


----------



## pirate_girl

EastTexFrank said:


> GOOD!
> 
> Please, I beg you, stay that way.  Be careful.



80 staff members in all.
Tests came back negative.


----------



## pirate_girl

Lenny said:


> That's GREAT news!!!!!!



Yes.
Several of my old friends from the Delphos facility informed me today, they also had every single one come back negative.


----------



## pirate_girl

jim slagle said:


> Congratulations!
> 
> You’re good to go!



Jim, sending you and Doc the unedited test results.
Just in case someone doubts it.
Lol


----------



## Jim_S RIP

pirate_girl said:


> Jim, sending you and Doc the unedited test results.
> Just in case someone doubts it.
> Lol






Yep, negative!


----------



## EastTexFrank

Melensdad said:


> I've been saying from early in this thread, it is not about death counts.
> 
> Here is the Republican Governor Tate Reeves from Mississippi, in an interesting Tweet storm about Covid and the concept of HERD IMMUNITY.  I believe some members here have suggested that we need to spread this disease around to get to herd immunity.
> 
> *For ease, I'm just posting the content below.  But if you want to see the actual Twitter feed it is here *==> https://twitter.com/tatereeves/status/1282783825219682304



Bob, I absolutely agree with the Governor.  I'm an engineer and also a math guy.  I ran a very similar exercise for the State of Texas with 29 million population and came to the conclusion that I'll probably be wearing a mask until the day that I die.  I'll also throw something else in here, the idea of "herd immunity' is a totally unproven concept.  Nobody knows if such a thing actually exists and yet, that is what we are striving for.  If it does exist, how long does it last, a lifetime a few years or a few months?  We don't know but that is what we are going all in on.  We'll see.

When Texas started to open up I watched the people in our little town completely abandon all precautions, no masks, no social distancing, partying hearty over memorial Day and July 4th and posting it all on Facebook.  We're starting to pay for it now.  There's been a big spike in the number of cases and probably more to come.  If that's what they want to do, fair enough, but it just doesn't affect them.  It affects everyone they come in contact with.  I know a couple of people who are already regretting their actions but it's too late.


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> I've been saying from early in this thread, it is not about death counts.
> 
> Here is the Republican Governor Tate Reeves from Mississippi, in an interesting Tweet storm about Covid and the concept of HERD IMMUNITY.  I believe some members here have suggested that we need to spread this disease around to get to herd immunity.
> 
> *For ease, I'm just posting the content below.  But if you want to see the actual Twitter feed it is here *==> https://twitter.com/tatereeves/status/1282783825219682304
> 
> 1) "Let's talk about herd immunity. I've listened to some people argue that the rapid spread of cases is a good thing, and we need to reach herd immunity in Mississippi and elsewhere to survive. I'm not a health care expert by any means, but I am a math guy. And I have thoughts:"
> 
> 2) "The experts say we need 70-80% of the population to get COVID-19 to achieve herd immunity. Let's assume they're wrong (it's certainly possible, they have been before.) Let's assume they're being way overly cautious and we actually only need 40% infection for herd immunity."
> close dialog
> 
> 3) "In Mississippi, our population is 3 million. We've had 36,680 cases so far. We'd need 1.2 MILLION infections to achieve that hypothetical 40% threshold. (Remember, experts say it's double that.)"
> 
> 4) "Over the last two weeks, our hospital system has started to become stressed to the point of pain. We are seeing the early signs and effects of it becoming overwhelmed. We had to suspend elective surgeries again."
> 
> 5) "On our worst day of new cases, we had just over 1,000. It has typically been between 700-900 during this most aggressive time. To get to 40% infections, we'd need 3,187 new cases every day for a full year from today. We would need to TRIPLE our worst day -- every day -- for a year."
> 
> 6) "I'm not one of these guys that immediately dismisses any idea that challenges the expert status quo talking points. I'm pretty skeptical by nature. That's healthy. But herd immunity is not anything like a realistic solution in the short or mid-term. I wish it was."
> 
> 7) "Unless you're willing to go without hospitals after a car wreck or heart attack, we need a different approach. Right now, despite mixed messages at the beginning, it seems like masks are the best bet. They're a hell of a lot better than widespread shut downs. Please wear one!"​



one part was left out. Keeping elderly and high risk people isolated while the herd gets immune so to not overwhelm the system.


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> one part was left out. Keeping elderly and high risk people isolated while the herd gets immune so to not overwhelm the system.



Not omitted, he just posted raw numbers to illustrate the factual points.


----------



## Backyardski

m1west said:


> one part was left out. Keeping elderly and high risk people isolated while the herd gets immune so to not overwhelm the system.



Dig into the herd immunity articles, it is very unlikely to achieve with this virus. Even with the small percentage of the population that is currently infected the system is showing signs of being overwhelmed in parts of Florida, Texas, Arizona, California right now. ICU beds are full in many hospitals and testing supplies are running out


----------



## Melensdad

Backyardski said:


> Dig into the herd immunity articles, it is very unlikely to achieve with this virus. Even with the small percentage of the population that is currently infected the system is showing signs of being overwhelmed in parts of Florida, Texas, Arizona, California right now. *ICU beds are full in many hospitals* and testing supplies are running out



And this has been one of the points all along while many people seem to focus only on the death counts, very few focus on the toll to the hospital system.  

Clearly the disease overwhelms systems in different cities and regions at different times.  We live in a large nation.  Hospitals systems get overwhelmed at different times.   The hospitals in Green Bay, WI and Erie, PA may have lots of capacity at the moment, but Orlando, FL and Houston, TX are under severe pressure.  At one point Houston was essentially virus free and New Orleans, LA was over capacity.  That is all due to the size of this nation.

But looking back at former hotspots, Indianapolis was an early hotspot and it seems like Indianapolis, and indeed much of northern Indiana is now seeing increasingly growing cases.  The state of Indiana is now approaching its prior PEAK numbers.  Other former hotspots are seeing similar issues.  So clearly the virus did not peak in Indiana and then go away.  It was simply contained for a while and now we've taken the restrictions off and it is back to doing what viruses do.  Our governor is maintaining the state, at 2 week intervals, on hold with some restrictions because our cases are growing, rapidly.





EastTexFrank said:


> Bob, I absolutely agree with the Governor.  I'm an engineer and also a math guy.  I ran a very similar exercise for the State of Texas with 29 million population and came to the conclusion that I'll probably be wearing a mask until the day that I die.  I'll also throw something else in here, the idea of "herd immunity' is a totally unproven concept.  Nobody knows if such a thing actually exists and yet, that is what we are striving for.  If it does exist, how long does it last. . .


The math on this is not all that difficult.

People are using incomplete data to try to prove "its just like the flu" and other similar things.

From the standpoint of spread, it is just like any other virus, it spreads.  But from the standpoint of putting fairly large numbers of people into hospital beds it is far worse than the flu.  From the standpoint of deaths, time will tell, perhaps it won't be as bad as the flu.  We know it kills off elderly.  We know it kills off those with preexisting conditions.  *We still do not know all the long term complications *from this but reports are now showing lung and cardiac issues may linger on for those who have recovered.

I'm not trying to scare anyone.  Just tossing out what we know and what we don't know.

We do know that masks work, despite the fact that many people use illogic and rare exceptions to justify their objections.


----------



## pirate_girl

Bob, you certainly aren't scaring me.
Perhaps if I'd been living in a huge city, then maybe I would have been from the beginning of this "pandemic".

I will say it until I'm blue in the face;
Back in January/February many of us at work, in this community, this part of Ohio think the virus has already been here.
We were quarantined in our back unit for 3 weeks, then the news about covid 19 began to be all the news, all the reason to be frightened and cautious.
Looking back, we are still saying it's BEEN here.
We had 1 resident sent to the hospital in, I believe it was late May, under the suspicion of omg! I hope he doesn't have IT.
He did not.
It was lower lobe pneumonia.
Since the end of February, aside from that incident not one single person in our facility has been sick with an upper respiratory, intestinal bug or anything else for that matter.
I give credit to the wearing of masks as we have been since, and practicing all precaution measures both at work, home and out and about.
We've kept our people safe, did indeed flatten the curve and possibly saved many lives.
I still have an opinion on the panic concerning it all, and just how serious it should be taken up to this very day.
That's about all I care to say about it.


----------



## Melensdad

I think you and I agree more than we disagree on this topic, despite what outwardly appears in this thread.


----------



## pirate_girl

Melensdad said:


> I think you and I agree more than we disagree on this topic, despite what outwardly appears in this thread.



Yup!


----------



## Backyardski

pirate_girl said:


> I will say it until I'm blue in the face;
> Back in January/February many of us at work, in this community, this part of Ohio think the virus has already been here.
> We were quarantined in our back unit for 3 weeks, then the news about covid 19 began to be all the news, all the reason to be frightened and cautious.
> Looking back, we are still saying it's BEEN here.



The cool thing is you can get a serology test and have an answer- provided the antibodies haven’t already worn off. My wife  got tested, no antibodies. I was a little disappointed, it would have been nice to know it came and went without complications.


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> Not omitted, he just posted raw numbers to illustrate the factual points.



when you change the input you change the math.
1- up to 80% of people infected are asymptomatic or have light symptoms
2- I don't know about everywhere else but around here the only people getting tested are health care and people that went to the hospital.
3- that suggests that for everyone tested there could be 8 others that had it and were not tested.
4- that calculation suggests that there're a whole lot more people out there that have had it already.
5- there are emerging therapeutics that have shown good results in other countries, Singapore and Japan come to mind. Those drugs should be used here but are not due to politics.
6- politics are effecting the reporting of positive cases, in some areas up to 10X
7- Bottom line is the experts have no idea how many have been infected and neither do I. Health car professionals are only concerned about health and not the whole picture.But staying home and doing nothing while the whole country is on a trajectory to ruin is not a plan.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Interesting ... https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politi...DTWx7uQ0bAKMyWqklcts1PCozVseid1BbLMehUPTrc7DY


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> when you change the input you change the math.
> 1- up to 80% of people infected are asymptomatic or have light symptoms
> 2- *I don't know about everywhere else* but around here the only people getting tested are health care and people that went to the hospital.
> 3- that* suggests *that for everyone tested there could be 8 others that had it and were not tested.
> 4- that calculation *suggests *that there're a whole lot more people out there that have had it already.
> 5- there are emerging therapeutics that have shown good results in other countries, Singapore and Japan come to mind. Those drugs should be used here but *are not due to politics.*
> 6- politics are effecting the reporting of positive cases, in some areas up to 10X
> 7- Bottom line is the experts have no idea how many have been infected and neither do I. Health car professionals are only concerned about health and not the whole picture.But staying home and doing nothing while the whole country is on a trajectory to ruin is not a plan.


Lots of hypothetical but very little fact.

I'd like to see some sources for some of these.  

As for therapeutics, I've certainly stated, and cited, where we are using different treatments and they are reducing deaths, but as for the greatest success, I believe those may be coming out of Taiwan.


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> Lots of hypothetical but very little fact.
> 
> I'd like to see some sources for some of these.
> 
> As for therapeutics, I've certainly stated, and cited, where we are using different treatments and they are reducing deaths, but as for the greatest success, I believe those may be coming out of Taiwan.



I will give some back up, they will be screen shots as my computer skills are still under development. And yes Taiwan is one of those countries.


----------



## Melensdad

PBinWA said:


> Interesting ... https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politi...DTWx7uQ0bAKMyWqklcts1PCozVseid1BbLMehUPTrc7DY



This is probably the 3rd or 4th report showing that the early Hydroxychloroquine tests were wrong.

That said, this is very good news, but it also is not a cure.  Its a treatment that helps some people.

There are other treatments that are not cures, they are also all good news and are all underreported, very probably because of politics.  It is a shame that politics is taking such a large role in the discussion of a disease.

I'd also note that several of the treatments are VERY INEXPENSIVE DRUGS that have been around for quite some time and available in generic form.  I suspect that MONEY has as much to do with what we hear as politics.


----------



## Jim_S RIP

> It is a shame that politics is taking such a large role in the discussion of a disease.



Well said. This has become more of a problem than the disease itself.


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> Lots of hypothetical but very little fact.
> 
> I'd like to see some sources for some of these.
> 
> As for therapeutics, I've certainly stated, and cited, where we are using different treatments and they are reducing deaths, but as for the greatest success, I believe those may be coming out of Taiwan.



There are many more and they are not tin hat sources. Makes things a little different. low risk go back to work, therapeutics with keeping high risk isolated, I think this is a viable plan to get going again. Like some other countries already have. Politics are killing us.


----------



## Backyardski

This is just using carpenter math, correct me if I skipped a step or three...

The latest number I saw was 40% of cases asymptotic. But even if it were 80%

3.5 million confirmed cases X 5 (3.5M being 20% of cases) =17.5 million assumed cases

US population +/- 320M, it would only be 5.4% infected at this point, that’s a long way to go to hit 70-80% for herd immunity.

*! Oh wait, 80% diagnosed asymptotic, not sure how to calculate based on that number, not sure what that stat says about total possible cases.

https://news.trust.org/item/20200716143306-y6l4u


----------



## m1west

Backyardski said:


> This is just using carpenter math, correct me if I skipped a step or three...
> 
> The latest number I saw was 40% of cases asymptotic. But even if it were 80%
> 
> 3.5 million confirmed cases X 5 (3.5M being 20% of cases) =17.5 million assumed cases
> 
> US population +/- 320M, it would only be 5.4% infected at this point, that’s a long way to go to hit 70-80% for herd immunity.
> 
> *! Oh wait, 80% diagnosed asymptotic, not sure how to calculate based on that number, not sure what that stat says about total possible cases.
> 
> https://news.trust.org/item/20200716143306-y6l4u



 its 5.4 percent because everything is shut down, if everything opens up and those at low risk take the mask off and go back to work it would shorten the duration of time to hit the herd immunity by quite a margin.


----------



## Backyardski

Any faster and the system fails. Florida is down to 16% ICU beds available, 961

12-15k new cases/ day. Not many days of beds left


----------



## mla2ofus

There's lots of questions being asked about the accuracy of reporting by labs/agencies.


----------



## m1west

Backyardski said:


> Any faster and the system fails. Florida is down to 16% ICU beds available, 961
> 
> 12-15k new cases/ day. Not many days of beds left



They can bring health care professionals from other areas and send the hospital ship that didn't get used in NY. There are a lot of resources available. I just heard on the local news that Ca. hospitals are at 73% of capacity. They need to run at 95% capacity in normal times to stay in business, but with elective surgeries being cut, thats where it is. Out of curiosity what would be your plan if you were in charge?


----------



## Backyardski

m1west said:


> They can bring health care professionals from other areas and send the hospital ship that didn't get used in NY. There are a lot of resources available. I just heard on the local news that Ca. hospitals are at 73% of capacity. They need to run at 95% capacity in normal times to stay in business, but with elective surgeries being cut, thats where it is. Out of curiosity what would be your plan if you were in charge?



I’d hand over the keys if I was in charge, haha

Based on what has happened here, I’d follow the CDC guidelines for reopening. We never had the spread like in NYC but reopening was controlled, people were largely respectful of the guidelines and now the whole state is about back to normal with the exception of NYC being behind. Bars and restaurants aren’t what they were but that has been shown to be a place the virus likes to spread. We won’t get an answer on school for a few more weeks, they are still assessing how that will work. The main points are hospitals run at 70% capacity to allow for room should there be an outbreak (better than no electives), the rate of transmission stays near 1 or less, there are sufficient contact tracers to get outbreaks under control quickly. I think there are 1 or 2 more conditions that I’m not remembering. It’s all based on data numbers science, not opinions. It is here and we have to deal with it for a little bit, sucks but that’s where we are.

Or you toss the plan and pretend everything is normal, fill hospitals and morgues and have to lock back down


----------



## Backyardski

An informative article of the current situation many cities and states are facing today

https://apnews.com/06d8396db10d3ead960da4fc11cd02ae


----------



## pirate_girl

Backyardski said:


> The cool thing is you can get a serology test and have an answer- provided the antibodies haven’t already worn off. My wife  got tested, no antibodies. I was a little disappointed, it would have been nice to know it came and went without complications.


I know that.
It's been discussed before, or should I say I mentioned it?


----------



## pirate_girl

mla2ofus said:


> There's lots of questions being asked about the accuracy of reporting by labs/agencies.



Something that I think has been conveniently skipped over.
(Florida, for example)..


----------



## Backyardski

pirate_girl said:


> I know that.
> It's been discussed before, or should I say I mentioned it?



I missed that one. I don’t read all of the posts, I just jump in from time to time- sorry.


----------



## pirate_girl

I've a question for the class.

How many of you have had to live in fear when the pandemic started?
How many people have you personally known who were diagnosed as positive or died?
How many of you are still buying into the bullshit surrounding this?
Yeah, DeWine is calling for another ohhh wear the masks! Well maybe...:th_lmao:
Walmart are talking enforcement of mask wearing, really?
How many of you have actually had to go to a job every goddamn day not knowing whether you trust your government, but you have abided by "the rules" only to know you would receive the prize for a job well done, but still think deep DEEP down inside yourself...
We didn't do anything here.
This was never that big a thing.
There was no science behind this, it was just a virus.
Blown out of proportion.
I spent a lot of time this afternoon discussing this with two of the smartest men I know.
My kids.
Jeff calls it total bullshit/government control.
But thanks Mom because he has some belief in the involvement of healthcare in virus pandemics.
Ty just say fuck it. It was never what the government claimed it was.
We're being controlled.
And here I sit as their mother thinking about all of that knowing they know me best and have such a keen look at the world as we know it, right here. Right now.
Boy.... my fingers hurt.


----------



## pirate_girl

Backyardski said:


> I missed that one. I don’t read all of the posts, I just jump in from time to time- sorry.



I know.
You jump in and out all the time.
Hello invisible reader..


----------



## Backyardski

???
I didn’t realize that was a thing. I’m no forum pro. I’ve enjoyed the discussions but if I’m not doing it right, my bad. I’m not deeply invested and can go without. My phone logs me out if I’m not actively typing or scrolling or if I’m doing other stuff, again, sorry


----------



## pirate_girl

Well I've become too emotionally involved with covid..
Period.
I won't post another thing about it on this forum.
That is a promise.
I've enjoyed your thread immensely, Bob.
Thank you big.
/ out.


----------



## mla2ofus

Well, ski, I just have to say by your fence sitting and still wanting to spout ill informed opinions you've managed to run off,to me, a valuable contributor to this thread.


----------



## m1west

Backyardski said:


> An informative article of the current situation many cities and states are facing today
> 
> https://apnews.com/06d8396db10d3ead960da4fc11cd02ae



some different statistics, makes you not want to drive hugh.


----------



## Melensdad

Regarding the screen shots as data.  The one that I would point out as very questionable is the one that is a month old.  We are in a fast moving pandemic with rapidly changing evidence and rapidly changing advancements in care.  I generally won't quote anything that is more than 1 week old because new treatments and new evidence is constantly coming out.




m1west said:


> They can bring health care professionals from other areas and send the hospital ship that didn't get used in NY. There are a lot of resources available. I just heard on the local news that Ca. hospitals are at 73% of capacity. *They need to run at 95% capacity in normal times *to stay in business, but with elective surgeries being cut, thats where it is. Out of curiosity what would be your plan if you were in charge?



I dunno about that.

My brother is in the hospital biz.  They have a group of hospitals.  They don't run at 95% under normal times.  At 95% he told me they consider the hospital in danger of being overwhelmed.  I don't know what their normal rate it, but for some reason I think its a lot closer to 80% than to 95%.  As it looked like they might approached 95% the governor in my state stopped all elective surgery and procedures. 

Currently in my state (Indiana) elective procedures and surgery is allowed.  According to the state "dashboard" it is showing 31% of the I.C.U. beds available right now.  LINK => https://www.coronavirus.in.gov/2393.htm


----------



## Backyardski

You all stay I’ll go. It’s a smaller club than I realized. I thought the point was to discuss things, I didn’t realize this was an agreement forum. I’ll ask Doc to shut me down. I’ll miss the snow cat stuff but I’ll survive and you can carry on. Sorry to those I’ve offended, thanks to the folks I’ve gotten to know. Maybe post a list of rules so new people don’t run afoul.

Best wishes, sincerely 

Mike


----------



## Melensdad

Backyardski said:


> You all stay I’ll go. It’s a smaller club than I realized. I thought the point was to discuss things, I didn’t realize this was an agreement forum. I’ll ask Doc to shut me down. I’ll miss the snow cat stuff but I’ll survive and you can carry on. Sorry to those I’ve offended, thanks to the folks I’ve gotten to know. Maybe post a list of rules so new people don’t run afoul.
> 
> Best wishes, sincerely
> 
> Mike



NOPE, you stay.  We all stay.  We don't have to agree.  Exchanging ideas and differences is actually the best part.


----------



## Jim_S RIP

Backyardski said:


> You all stay I’ll go. It’s a smaller club than I realized. I thought the point was to discuss things, I didn’t realize this was an agreement forum. I’ll ask Doc to shut me down. I’ll miss the snow cat stuff but I’ll survive and you can carry on. Sorry to those I’ve offended, thanks to the folks I’ve gotten to know. Maybe post a list of rules so new people don’t run afoul.
> 
> Best wishes, sincerely
> 
> Mike





Melensdad said:


> NOPE, you stay.  We all stay. We don't have to agree.   Exchanging ideas and differences is actually the best part.



What Bob said!

We don't have to agree, just agree to disagree sometimes.


----------



## pirate_girl

Melensdad said:


> We all stay.  We don't have to agree.  Exchanging ideas and differences is actually the best part.





jim slagle said:


> What Bob said!
> 
> We don't have to agree, just agree to disagree sometimes.


No.
Not me.
Not on here or netcookingtalk's covid thread.
It's all become too wearing guys.
Not just on forums, but other social media.
If you were in my shoes, you might agree.
Or not.


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> NOPE, you stay.  We all stay.  We don't have to agree.  Exchanging ideas and differences is actually the best part.



I agree also, it wouldn't be much of a discussion or debate if everyone thought the same way. As long as everyone is respectful I'm in. Bottom line is I think no one really knows where we are or where we are going. You can read and post your thoughts. Opinions are like assholes everyone has one and they all stink to others. I enjoy the back and forth also. some of the things Ski and Mr dad posted have made me think and do some research. I don't have to agree with it and they don't have to agree with me and thats OK too. A little ribbing is ok to as long as its in fun. Marty


----------



## Melensdad

So now that we are firmly in the 2nd wave it seems reasonable to bring this thread back from the dead, especially since it was one of the most commented upon threads we've had.

MAYO CLINICS group of hospitals in Wisconsin is converting lobby areas and even heated garage areas into makeshift patient rooms in northern Wisconsin as the hospitals are being over-run with Covid patients.  




__





						Zerohedge
					

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero




					www.zerohedge.com
				




YET ANOTHER DEMOCRAT was busted violating his own Covid lockdown rules.  This seems to be a pattern with the hypocrites who hold top offices around the country.  We've seen California, NJ, Illinois and NY governors caught.  Now this from Colorado:  https://www.zerohedge.com/political...democrat-leader-busted-breaking-his-own-covid

The COVID VACCINE's efficacy may be far below what the Pharma companies claim.




__





						Zerohedge
					

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero




					www.zerohedge.com


----------



## EastTexFrank

COVID is surging in out rural East Texas county.  For the past 3 or 4 weeks we've been recording over a 100 cases a week.  The number of hospitalizations hasn't increased dramatically and the number of COVID related deaths has been running around 52 (since early March) for a while.  That would seem to say that most people are being sent home with meds to isolate and recover.  

Most of our friends are older and they are doing what we are doing, being careful and not taking any unnecessary risks.  3 people that I know caught it in the last month.  The lady said that it was nothing worse than a bad cold.  Her husband, who is middle aged, had it bad.  Even though he's officially cleared he said that the after effects are terrible.  He has chronic fatigue.  He can't do anything for more that an hour and then he is buggered and has to quit for the day.  The other guy, also middle aged, is still in hospital.  He posted a letter on his Facebook page telling what he is experiencing and it's not pleasant.  I still don't understand how it affects people so differently.  

Most people, except oldies like us, have said "screw it", let's get on with our lives, to hell with the masks.  That probably explains the surge we are seeing at the moment.  The vaccine can't get here quick enough for me.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

For the longest time we were at 1 or 2 cases. For the past two weeks there have been 5-10 cases per day reported by the local health unit. One elderly person has died. There have been outbreaks in both seniors homes and the hospital. 

One of the main contributors to the rise in cases is coming from people who were infected without symptoms and going to play "pickelball".  Don't worry, I had to Google it too. Seems there's a local league where an outbreak occurred and spread throughout the players. One of them was asymptomatic and brought it home to an elderly relative who passed away within dsys of contracting it. Another "hot spot" was at a local thrift store where a homeless person spread it causing an outbreak.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

...to add to the outbreak locations, how ironic is it that there were 4 cases reported to have come from a local store that sells hand soap and other personal cleaning supplies?


----------



## pirate_girl

At the moment we have 2 residents on our covid unit.
I'm hoping and praying this doesn't get out of control like last time.


----------



## m1west

Honestly, except for putting on a mask at the store and getting my temperature taken when ever I go to the field it has not disrupted my life much at all, I have a shop and on 6.5 acres there is plenty to keep me busy and if I get board there is the work cabin. I do feel sorry for those in a major city trapped in an apartment, but thats there choice. The Sheriff out here already stated they will not be enforcing over restrictive orders from the Govenor and the Vaccine is coming out soon. I see a light at the end of the tunnel, I just hope it isn't another train coming.


----------



## Ceee

The El Paso area in Texas is experiencing some pretty bad stuff.  The spike in that area seems to have stemmed from Labor Day festivities.  I sure hope we don't see that in many other areas across the US because of Thanksgiving gatherings.  And then there's Christmas gatherings coming up.

Now for the mushy female perspective.  I've seen the clips on the local news of the Tx Nat'l Guard helping to load the plastic-wrapped bodies into those vehicles.  I can't even imagine thinking about one of my loved ones being wrapped up like that and being loaded into a vehicle like that.  It just breaks my heart.  Mushy perspective...off.


----------



## pirate_girl

pirate_girl said:


> At the moment we have 2 residents on our covid unit.
> I'm hoping and praying this doesn't get out of control like last time.


I hate quoting myself in order to make another post, but we've had 3 more test positive.
So far all but one of them are asymptomatic on the unit.
He's been running a temp ONLY for the last 24 hrs, but has otherwise been doing ok as far as appetite and independent mobility.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

pirate_girl said:


> I hate quoting myself in order to make another post, but we've had 3 more test positive.
> So far all but one of them are asymptomatic on the unit.
> He's been running a temp ONLY for the last 24 hrs, but has otherwise been doing ok as far as appetite and independent mobility.


I couldn't imagine dealing with that first hand. You're a strong person. Good work.


----------



## pirate_girl

NorthernRedneck said:


> I couldn't imagine dealing with that first hand. You're a strong person. Good work.


Not so strong at times, Brian.
Thank you.


----------



## Melensdad

Well in some glum news, particularly about the tragic toll Covid has taken on nursing homes, we've hit a new milestone. 100,000 people in nursing homes have died _(combined staff & residents)._









						'Bleak Milestone': More Than 100,000 Nursing Home Residents and Staff Killed by Pandemic
					

Forty percent of all Covid-19 deaths in the United States have occurred in long-term care facilities.




					www.commondreams.org
				




The full story is at the link.  


> As of the last week of November, Covid-19 has claimed the lives of more than 100,000 people who live and work in long-term care facilities in the United States, according tothe Kaiser Family Foundation's latest analysis of state-reported data.
> 
> The following chart depicts the growth in Covid-19 deaths among nursing home residents and staff in the U.S. since April. According to the Kaiser Family Foundation (KFF), 40% of the nation's Covid-19 deaths have occurred in long-term care facilities.


----------



## EastTexFrank

Bob, that agrees with my own observations here in Wood County, Texas.  The death toll since March is at 53, up one from last week, and half of those deaths occurred in two long-term care facilities.  The old and compromised are at serious risk from this virus.  That's why we are still being cautious and taking precautions.  I don't think that we are being paranoid about it, we get on with our lives, but we did cancel our RVing for this year and we don't attend any large gatherings especially with people we don't know.


----------



## pirate_girl

Melensdad said:


> Well in some glum news, particularly about the tragic toll Covid has taken on nursing homes, we've hit a new milestone. 100,000 people in nursing homes have died _(combined staff & residents)._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'Bleak Milestone': More Than 100,000 Nursing Home Residents and Staff Killed by Pandemic
> 
> 
> Forty percent of all Covid-19 deaths in the United States have occurred in long-term care facilities.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.commondreams.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The full story is at the link.


The nursing facility where I worked prior to the present one, now have had 13 residents pass from covid.
My friend Holly who still works there messaged me 4 days ago and said Holy Jesus, I cannot believe this.
?
I knew many who passed.


----------



## marchplumber

Sorry, and yes it is happening here in Central Illinois too!  Prayers offered for all involved.......


----------



## NorthernRedneck

A local seniors home has become infected with the virus. Last Thursday they had 1 case. Friday, they had 3. Saturday, they had 22. Yesterday they were up to 63 cases and one death.


----------



## pirate_girl

NorthernRedneck said:


> A local seniors home has become infected with the virus. Last Thursday they had 1 case. Friday, they had 3. Saturday, they had 22. Yesterday they were up to 63 cases and one death.


Once it gets into a facility it's very difficult to contain it. ?
It spreads like wildfire.
Many nursing homes have let their guard down after going weeks being covid free, then they start accepting new admissions, then guess what?
??


----------



## Lenny

pirate_girl said:


> Once it gets into a facility it's very difficult to contain it. ?
> It spreads like wildfire.
> Many nursing homes have let their guard down after going weeks being covid free, then they start accepting new admissions, then guess what?
> ??


I wish people like you who work in nursing homes would be asked what additional things should be done to bring the virus down.....Bigger facilities?  More staff?  Different ventilation systems?  Well, you know better than me.


----------



## EastTexFrank

In one of the nursing homes in our county it appears that it was the staff that introduced it.  34 of them tested positive while only a few of the residents did.  It didn't stay that way for long though and the nursing home was struggling to cope with that many staff being quarantined.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

pirate_girl said:


> Once it gets into a facility it's very difficult to contain it. ?
> It spreads like wildfire.
> Many nursing homes have let their guard down after going weeks being covid free, then they start accepting new admissions, then guess what?
> ??



Just heard on the local news they had a second fatality in the same nursing home.


----------



## pirate_girl

EastTexFrank said:


> In one of the nursing homes in our county it appears that it was the staff that introduced it.  34 of them tested positive while only a few of the residents did.  It didn't stay that way for long though and the nursing home was struggling to cope with that many staff being quarantined.


A transport person is who brought it into our place the first time around.
Contact tracing - boom, yep, it was him.
We continue to go through the staffing issue, but thankfully have agency nurses and aides on board.
All the PPE in the world and mindful practice seems to not be enough to keep it out.
I've lost track of how many times I've been tested but it's nearing 30 plus times.
Now that we're back to bi-weekly testing.


----------



## Rudi

NorthernRedneck said:


> A local seniors home has become infected with the virus. Last Thursday they had 1 case. Friday, they had 3. Saturday, they had 22. Yesterday they were up to 63 cases and one death.


Nope! Didn't happen! Its all fake!

Remember when Trump supporters claimed that ;
"The Day After the Election, Covid Will Disappear"​I bet a lot of them on this forum claimed that very thing. How long before they claim they were just joking?

LOL


----------



## pirate_girl

Rudi said:


> Nope! Didn't happen! Its all fake!
> 
> Remember when Trump supporters claimed that ;
> "The Day After the Election, Covid Will Disappear"​I bet a lot of them on this forum claimed that very thing. How long before they claim they were just joking?
> 
> LOL


This isn't the thread to show off your particular brand of nastiness.
Thanks.
??


----------



## Lenny

pirate_girl said:


> This isn't the thread to show off your particular brand of nastiness.
> Thanks.
> ??


He's looking for reasons to be a pain in the ass.  He doesn't belong here.


----------



## Melensdad

Rudi said:


> Nope! Didn't happen! Its all fake!
> 
> Remember when Trump supporters claimed that ;
> "The Day After the Election, Covid Will Disappear"​I bet a lot of them on this forum claimed that very thing. How long before they claim they were just joking?
> 
> LOL


Moderator hat back on, just so you know, and this is a fair warning, we allow a lot of leeway in the POLITICAL debate area but we won’t tolerate nasty attitudes in other areas.  Don’t be a jerk.  This is not part of the political discussion area.  

And just to show you how ignorant you can be, you responded to a Canadian member, talking about a care home in Canada, so probably a safe bet it’s not full of Trump voters.

Be civil.  We celebrate differing views.  But don’t expect us to tolerate bad behavior.


----------



## EastTexFrank

Thank you Bob!


----------



## Ceee

I think things will start looking up shortly.  From what I heard on the news this morning, Moderna's vaccine sounds pretty promising...fingers crossed.

Edit to Add:  https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/30/health/covid-vaccine-moderna.html

The drugmaker Moderna announced highly encouraging results on Monday, saying that complete data from a large study show its coronavirus vaccine to be 94.1 percent effective, a finding that confirms earlier estimates.

The company said that it applied on Monday to the Food and Drug Administration to authorize the vaccine for emergency use, and that if approved, injections for Americans could begin as early as Dec. 21.

The hopeful news arrives at a particularly grim moment in the U.S. health crisis. Coronavirus cases have surged and overwhelmed hospitals in some regions, and health officials have warned that the numbers may grow even worse in the coming weeks because of travel and gatherings for Thanksgiving.

The new data from Moderna show that its study of 30,000 people has met the scientific criteria needed to determine whether the vaccine works. The findings from the full set of data match an analysis of interim data released on Nov. 16 that found the vaccine to be 94.5 percent effective.

 The study also showed that the vaccine was 100 percent effective at preventing severe disease from the coronavirus. The product was developed in collaboration with government researchers from the Vaccine Research Center at the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases.


----------



## Melensdad

Ceee said:


> I think things will start looking up shortly.  From what I heard on the news this morning, Moderna's vaccine sounds pretty promising...fingers crossed.


I hope so.

Having a distribution background it seems like vaccination of the majority of the public will be a logistical nightmare but, if done in stages, could probably be accomplished by mid-2021 IF THE SUPPLIES of vaccines are actually available where they need to be.

Seems like FIRST RESPONDERS (nurses, doctors, etc) should likely be first.
Then move on the ELDERLY and/or anyone with 2 or more co-morbidities like Diabetes, Obesity, COPD, etc
Then move on to those over 55 and/or anyone with 1 co-morbidity 
Then open it up to everyone

The fact that most of these require 2 shots complicates the logistics.


----------



## Ceee

Melensdad said:


> I hope so.
> 
> Having a distribution background it seems like vaccination of the majority of the public will be a logistical nightmare but, if done in stages, could probably be accomplished by mid-2021 IF THE SUPPLIES of vaccines are actually available where they need to be.
> 
> Seems like FIRST RESPONDERS (nurses, doctors, etc) should likely be first.
> Then move on the ELDERLY and/or anyone with 2 or more co-morbidities like Diabetes, Obesity, COPD, etc
> Then move on to those over 55 and/or anyone with 1 co-morbidity
> Then open it up to everyone
> 
> The fact that most of these require 2 shots complicates the logistics.


I agree.   It's not going to be easy.   I was wondering about all the red tape that Moderna would have to plow through.  Since it's an emergency use, maybe the powers that be will cut some slack in approval.  I'm hoping so.  

I also agree that first responders should be first, but I *think* I heard on the news this morning that the state and local authorities would be the ones to decide on who gets it first.  

Honestly, I'm not sure that I would get the vaccine right now even if it were available to me.  If I were diagnosed with covid, I might change my mind.


----------



## Melensdad

Ceee said:


> Honestly, I'm not sure that I would get the vaccine right now even if it were available to me.  If I were diagnosed with covid, I might change my mind.


Honestly I think its a 'risk' thing that will lead people to decide.

Younger healthier people have very low risk of complications.  That changes with age.  It also changes with weight.  It also changes with co-moridities like the various auto-immune diseases, diabetes, any sort of lung disease, etc.  

Not sure I'd get it if I was 35 and healthy.  

But at 60 and with auto-immune disorders I'm looking for a vaccine.


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> Honestly I think its a 'risk' thing that will lead people to decide.
> 
> Younger healthier people have very low risk of complications.  That changes with age.  It also changes with weight.  It also changes with co-moridities like the various auto-immune diseases, diabetes, any sort of lung disease, etc.
> 
> Not sure I'd get it if I was 35 and healthy.
> 
> But at 60 and with auto-immune disorders I'm looking for a vaccine.


Im 62 active and healthy with no co morbidity and I'm on the fence, I would like to see what happens in the long term after people have taken it. Im not a anti Vaccer just want to be cautious. If I got COVID and was having complications, I would take it in a second. Only time will tell.


----------



## pirate_girl

The vaccine is supposed to become available here sometime within the next 2-3 weeks.
I can't say I'll exactly be pushing myself to the front of the line, but I'll get the damn thing.


----------



## Ceee

pirate_girl said:


> The vaccine is supposed to become available here sometime within the next 2-3 weeks.
> I can't say I'll exactly be pushing myself to the front of the line, but I'll get the damn thing.


If I were in your shoes, I sure would get the vaccine.  Anybody who comes into contact regularly with someone who has covid would be smart to get the vaccine in my opinion.  If I had anyone in my household or any immediate family with covid, I'd get it too.

Edit to Add:  If you don't want to answer this, I'm okay with no answer.  Where did you get the info that the vaccine would be available within the next 2-3 weeks?  I thought the news people were maybe being too overly optimistic, but sure hoped not.  Just curious.  I'm so ready for something positive to finally happen.


----------



## pirate_girl

Ceee said:


> If I were in your shoes, I sure would get the vaccine.  Anybody who comes into contact regularly with someone who has covid would be smart to get the vaccine in my opinion.  If I had anyone in my household or any immediate family with covid, I'd get it too.
> 
> Edit to Add:  If you don't want to answer this, I'm okay with no answer.  Where did you get the info that the vaccine would be available within the next 2-3 weeks?  I thought the news people were maybe being too overly optimistic, but sure hoped not.  Just curious.  I'm so ready for something positive to finally happen.


Our governor announced that Ohio would be receiving it's first batch from Pfizer around December 15th.
?


----------



## Ceee

pirate_girl said:


> Our governor announced that Ohio would be receiving it's first batch from Pfizer around December 15th.
> ?


That's great news.  It sounds like they're already strategizing on how to  distribute.


----------



## EastTexFrank

Melensdad said:


> But at 60 and with auto-immune disorders I'm looking for a vaccine.



I'm with Melensdad,  I'm 73-years old with conditions that are kept under control by meds but put me in the high risk category.  I'm waiting for the vaccine.  My wife who is also 73-years old but with no pre-existing conditions is on the fence about the vaccine but is leaning towards not getting it because she is allergic to so many drugs.  

I'm not sure about this but I don't know that waiting until you test positive and then taking the vaccine will be of any benefit.  That's not how vaccines usually work.  Perhaps PG can weigh in on that.


----------



## Melensdad

EastTexFrank said:


> I'm with Melensdad,  I'm 73-years old with conditions that are kept under control by meds but put me in the high risk category.  I'm waiting for the vaccine.  My wife who is also 73-years old but with no pre-existing conditions is on the fence about the vaccine but is leaning towards not getting it because she is allergic to so many drugs.
> 
> I'm not sure about this but I don't know that waiting until you test positive and then taking the vaccine will be of any benefit.  That's not how vaccines usually work.  Perhaps PG can weigh in on that.


You have to have the vaccine about a MONTH BEFORE you are actually exposed for the vaccine to work.

The vaccine will *not cure covid if you have covid. *

It is designed to do 2 things.  REDUCE symptoms and complications IF you get a high dose exposure.  STOP you from getting covid if you have a low dose exposure.


----------



## EastTexFrank

Thanks Bob.  That's what I thought.


----------



## Lenny

I'm wondering about the vaccine too but If doctors and nurses are going to be first and not afraid of it,I'm thinking it should be okay to take.


----------



## Ceee

On the news yesterday, they showed some footage of caregivers (in Chicago, I think) on strike.  They were striking for better working conditions, more PPE equipment, a pay raise for hazardous working conditions, and maybe some other stuff that wasn't mentioned or maybe I just missed.

This morning three past presidents, Clinton, Obama, and Bush, came out and said that they would publicly get the vaccine once it has been approved.  

Now the education dept in Tx is pushing for all the teachers and staff to be some of the first to receive the vaccine.

What's next


----------



## pirate_girl

Lenny said:


> I'm wondering about the vaccine too but If doctors and nurses are going to be first and not afraid of it,I'm thinking it should be okay to take.


I wouldn't say I'm not feeling a little wary.
I've had reactions to the flu vax a couple of times.
Healthcare workers and the elderly in nursing homes are going to be first according to DeWine.
I don't mind being a guinea pig as it were, but I'm also thinking of reactions in those more susceptible and sensitive.


----------



## pirate_girl




----------



## pirate_girl

At the present time we're holding at 6 residents on our unit/tested positive.
So far, asymptomatic.
You would not even know.


----------



## bczoom

Our zip code has spiked to 30 cases.  We had less than 20 a few weeks ago.  Even with 30 cases, that's less than 1% of our zip codes population.
I have a couple neighbors that I "heard" caught it but I haven't spoken with them to get any confirmation.


----------



## EastTexFrank

We're still waiting to see what happens after the Thanksgiving incubation period.  

We were going to take the RV down to Fredericksburg in the Texas Hill Country.  Cases are spiking around us but are not supposed to be be too bad down there.  However, after much discussion, we decided to stay home and just write off 2020 altogether.  Pity, it would have been a nice break and the first time in a year that we have used the RV.


----------



## m1west

My Friend/neighbor Robert that has cancer just told me his son tested positive and is quarantined in his room but still in the house. Robert has stage 4 esophagus cancer. Thats probably not the best situation. To add insult to injury they won't let him come to the hospital for his Chemo treatments for 14 days because he was exposed, even though both him and his wife have both tested negative twice. He told me the rapid tests are $150.00 each and he has spent $900.00 on them so far.


----------



## Melensdad

Walgreens & CVS will be distributing the vaccines.  I think this is great news because the US doesn’t need to have taxpayer infrastructure, which cost taxpayer $$$ every day to maintain.  Instead we have use of profit based efficient distribution at a fraction of the cost. 









						COVID-19 vaccine rollout relies heavily on pharmacy giants CVS and Walgreens
					

The COVID-19 vaccine campaign to reach the most vulnerable will depend not on public health departments but on pharmacy giants.




					news.yahoo.com
				




This article makes it sound like we need a public distribution network in place to get the vaccine delivered to people’s arms.  Why? We saw for profit companies develop vaccines in months when Dr Fauci said it would take 2 years. Personally I trust Walgreens a lot more than I trust the CDC


----------



## pirate_girl

*If none of you have had the rapid return tests, I would recommend it if you're physician offers them vs the swab/tube 3-4 day.

These are said to take 15 minutes for a result, but my experience with watching the test activate shows a definite result either way within 2-3 minutes.

A green line first rises to the top, then a pink line will follow.

If positive another pink line will appear.

If negative, the pink line appears to smear and drag to the top, then you are left with a single pink line.

We're doing these every Monday and Wednesday now.

7 residents positive, one having mild symptoms now.

1 housekeeping employee and 1 nurses aide are off with mild symptoms.

*


----------



## Doc

Man, it is exploding around me.   Daughter and her whole family were exposed so they are in quarantine.  Sister in law and our niece and her family were exposed and now in quarantine.   A superb cancer surgeon has had covid over a week.  Was taken to Cleveland clinic yesterday.   This Dr. has saved so many lives in our area now his is in peril.   Scary shit.   Vaccine can't get her soon enough.  I'll take it when it available.


----------



## pirate_girl

It's being reported that a single dose of the vaccine is effective.
They're doing it in the UK now.


----------



## pirate_girl

The Food and Drug Administration released a detailed analysis Tuesday morning of the COVID-19 vaccine from Pfizer and its partner BioNTech ahead of a Thursday meeting of a group of independent experts that will advise the agency on whether to grant the vaccine an emergency use authorization.

The agency's analysis finds "no specific safety concerns identified that would preclude issuance of an EUA." Serious reactions were rare. Side effects are common, however, with a majority of study volunteers experiencing reactions at the site of injection, headaches and fatigue.

The analysis also affirms the previously stated vaccine effectiveness of 95%, assessed a week after two doses of vaccine. The vaccine doses are given 21 days apart.

The clinical data also suggest that the vaccine may be able to prevent COVID-19 after a single dose — 82% effective — though the FDA analysis says the available information doesn't allow for a firm conclusion on that potential effect.

The vaccine authorization under consideration is "for active immunization for the prevention of COVID-19 caused by SARS-CoV-2 in individuals 16 years of age and older."


----------



## EastTexFrank

PG, it can't get here soon enough.  In reality, COVID-19 hasn't disrupted my life too much but I resent the disruption that it has caused.  I don't mind the mask wearing stuff, I can live with that, but I resent the fact that it has reduced my life choices over the last year.  I haven't shaken the hand of a friend for almost a year.  We haven't drunk coffee together or sipped a Scotch and told lies about each other ... or laughed.  Those are the things, and others like it, that I have missed, the social interaction and family gatherings.  Once all the vaccinations are completed, my wife and her friends (cronies, partners in crime) are planning the biggest Texas BBQ that you have ever seen.  You should be able to see the smoke from that sucker 50 miles away.


----------



## Melensdad

Warning over UK vaccine rollout as two NHS staff given jab suffer 'anaphylactic reaction': Regulators urge people with history of 'significant' allergies NOT to have Pfizer injection - just 24 hours after Britain's mass inoculation kicked off​
*Both the people are recovering following the first day of the mass vaccination programme, it is understood*
*The NHS in England said that all the trusts involved with the vaccination programme have been informed*
*MHRA has given advice anyone who has a history of 'significant' allergic reactions should not get the vaccine*
The UK's world-first Covid-19 vaccine rollout has hit problems within 24 hours after_ anyone with a serious allergy to medicines or food was warned not to have the Pfizer jab_ because two NHS staff fell ill on V-Day.

The number of people set to be barred from having the Pfizer jab is not known, but _up to 7million people in Britain have have allergies severe enough to require specialist allergy care, according to the NHS, while around 250,000 people need to carry an EpiPen.

Both the unnamed healthcare workers, who carried EpiPens, are recovering from reactions suffered shortly after their injections_ on the first day of Britain's biggest ever mass vaccination programme.









						Calls for calm over Covid vaccine roll-out amid allergy scare
					

Both the healthcare workers, who carried EpiPens, are recovering from anaphylactoid reactions following the first day of the mass vaccination programme.




					www.dailymail.co.uk
				




*SIDE EFFECTS:*
Very common (Likely to affect *more than one in ten people*)


Pain at injection site
Tiredness
Muscle pain
Chills
Joint pain
Fever
Common (Likely to affect *up to one in ten people*)


Injection site swelling
Redness at injection site
Nausea
Uncommon (May affect *one in 100 people*)


Enlarged lymph nodes
Feeling unwell


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> Warning over UK vaccine rollout as two NHS staff given jab suffer 'anaphylactic reaction': Regulators urge people with history of 'significant' allergies NOT to have Pfizer injection - just 24 hours after Britain's mass inoculation kicked off​
> *Both the people are recovering following the first day of the mass vaccination programme, it is understood*
> *The NHS in England said that all the trusts involved with the vaccination programme have been informed*
> *MHRA has given advice anyone who has a history of 'significant' allergic reactions should not get the vaccine*
> The UK's world-first Covid-19 vaccine rollout has hit problems within 24 hours after_ anyone with a serious allergy to medicines or food was warned not to have the Pfizer jab_ because two NHS staff fell ill on V-Day.
> 
> The number of people set to be barred from having the Pfizer jab is not known, but _up to 7million people in Britain have have allergies severe enough to require specialist allergy care, according to the NHS, while around 250,000 people need to carry an EpiPen.
> 
> Both the unnamed healthcare workers, who carried EpiPens, are recovering from reactions suffered shortly after their injections_ on the first day of Britain's biggest ever mass vaccination programme.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Calls for calm over Covid vaccine roll-out amid allergy scare
> 
> 
> Both the healthcare workers, who carried EpiPens, are recovering from anaphylactoid reactions following the first day of the mass vaccination programme.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *SIDE EFFECTS:*
> Very common (Likely to affect *more than one in ten people*)
> 
> 
> Pain at injection site
> Tiredness
> Muscle pain
> Chills
> Joint pain
> Fever
> Common (Likely to affect *up to one in ten people*)
> 
> 
> Injection site swelling
> Redness at injection site
> Nausea
> Uncommon (May affect *one in 100 people*)
> 
> 
> Enlarged lymph nodes
> Feeling unwell


All that sounds like the flu.


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> All that sounds like the flu.


You may want to read this.  

Some people experience far worse side effects.








						The FDA says Pfizer’s Covid vaccine is safe and effective. But trial participants warn of intense symptoms after second shot
					

The FDA says the Pfizer Covid vaccine is both safe and effective. CNBC spoke with Pfizer and Moderna trial participants about what side effects you can expect.




					www.cnbc.com


----------



## NorthernRedneck

Looks like the vaccine is being rolled out up here too. 









						Health Canada approves Pfizer's COVID-19 vaccine
					

Read the full story and comment on Tbnewswatch.com




					www.tbnewswatch.com


----------



## Melensdad

While the world waits for a vaccine we may have found a cure!  20 min video from a teaching doctor from the UK.  Drug is called Ivermectin, it’s used by veterinarians and by human doctors.  It may be a preventative and it may be a real cure.  Or, it’s dirt cheap and available globally too.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

All I know is those stupid covid screening questions are getting monotonous. Really? I have 6 kids. I bring them in for their dental appointments at different times. I could be at the dental clinic 2-3 times in one day. Each time I go I have to answer "have you been out of the country or traveled anywhere in the past 14 days?"  Seriously? I was just there at 9am and 11am and answered the questions then. Oh....and my favorite...do you have any aches and pains?  Any headaches? Have you had a hangnail in the past 4 years? 

I get the whole screening protocol and whatnot but some people may just have conditions that existed before covid was a thing.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

Some not so good news on the corona front up here. We were fairly isolated from the major outbreaks in s Ontario until a nurse in a seniors home traveled there and didn't follow the mandatory 14 day isolation protocol upon her return. She went straight back to work and within a week over 40 staff and residents were infected. That was 3 weeks ago. They just announced the 11th death in that facility today. Sad.


----------



## pirate_girl

Of the 7 that were on our covid unit, 5 are good to go testing negative now.
That's good news for us.
It's NOTHING like it was during the first wave.
That said, vaccines are coming soon, first to area hospitals, then us.
They've been saying our medic friends from the national guard will be administering them.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

They're arriving up here too. First the hospitals. Then nursing homes. Then First nation's people (natives).  I figure that by the time the general public is eligible, there will be thousands of guinea pigs ahead of me. So we'll be able to see how it affects us.


----------



## Ceee

NorthernRedneck said:


> Some not so good news on the corona front up here. We were fairly isolated from the major outbreaks in s Ontario until a nurse in a seniors home traveled there and didn't follow the mandatory 14 day isolation protocol upon her return. She went straight back to work and within a week over 40 staff and residents were infected. That was 3 weeks ago. They just announced the 11th death in that facility today. Sad.


So very sad and so very unnecessary
_Everyone_ is going to have to get on board with the guidelines before the US can get this pandemic under control.
I'm trying to do my part, just wish everyone else would.


----------



## Melensdad

NorthernRedneck said:


> Some not so good news on the corona front up here. We were fairly isolated from the major outbreaks in s Ontario *until a nurse in a seniors home traveled there and didn't follow the mandatory 14 day isolation protocol upon her return. She went straight back to work and within a week over 40 staff and residents were infected. *That was 3 weeks ago. They just announced* the 11th death *in that facility today. Sad.


One would assume that a fancy lawyer will be summoning up the families of those 11 people to sue the nurse for negligence and push to have her charged with murder if she can be directly tied to their deaths.

And it is this stupid, arrogant and total carelessness is why we need TREATMENTS more than we need the vaccine.  How many more have to die?

Every resident in every retirement/care facility should probably be on Vitamin D, probably also taking Selenium, Zinc and possibly Melatonin.  Those are simple.  And there is enough evidence for ALL 4 of those as being beneficial that anyone who doesn't have an issue with drug interactions should probably take all those supplements.

Now we have STRONG evidence for Intermectin, a common drug that is so readily available its used in barns to treat horses by stable hands.  It's been around for decades, it is cheap, it is available world wide and under a doctor's care it appears to be very effective for treating and curing Covid-19.  Vitamin D, in IV form, has also been shown to be an effective treatment for Covid-19 in many patients.

But we are chasing multi-billion dollar vaccines when we have cheap cures.  I'm not anti-vaccine and plan to take at least 1 of them, possibly multiple vaccines against Covid-19 as per my doctor's suggestion.  But I'm baffled by the continued deaths as we ignore treatments and chase vaccines.


FROM the WALL STREET JOURNAL:
​​Vaccines Are Coming but They Won’t End Covid-19 Anytime Soon​
​In the Philippines, inoculating the necessary 60 million to 70 million people could take up to five years, officials say​
By​Dec. 13, 2020 8:00 am ET​Listen to this article​6 minutes​​As Covid-19 vaccine development picks up pace, the Philippines has drawn up an immunization plan. The bottom line, officials say: Getting doses to enough of the population to rein in the virus will take two to five years.​​That is the forecast for reaching the target of 60 million to 70 million of the country’s nearly 110 million people, they say, using a patchwork of vaccines from different suppliers. So far the Philippines has struck just one vaccine deal, for 2.6 million shots—enough for 1.3 million people.​​Manila’s early blueprint is a reality check for those expecting a swift vaccine-driven end to the pandemic and revival of global trade and travel. While some countries may be able to get shots to large portions of their populations in 2021, some in the developing world may be years away from protecting more than their highest-risk populations.​That means the virus will continue to circulate and claim lives in various corners of the map. Some global health specialists worry about a future in which the coronavirus lurks in such places, becoming endemic—and perhaps evolving in ways that make current vaccines less effective.​​“There’s no point having products that do not reach the majority of the world’s population,” said Soumya Swaminathan, chief scientist of the World Health Organization. She cited the hepatitis B vaccine, saying it took 30 years after its introduction in rich countries to reach low- and middle-income countries.​Only one disease—smallpox—has ever been eradicated from the human population using a vaccine.​​
​


----------



## Ceee

Melensdad said:


> One would assume that a fancy lawyer will be summoning up the families of those 11 people to sue the nurse for negligence and push to have her charged with murder if she can be directly tied to their deaths.
> 
> And it is this stupid, arrogant and total carelessness is why we need TREATMENTS more than we need the vaccine.  How many more have to die?
> 
> Every resident in every retirement/care facility should probably be on Vitamin D, probably also taking Selenium, Zinc and possibly Melatonin.  Those are simple.  And there is enough evidence for ALL 4 of those as being beneficial that anyone who doesn't have an issue with drug interactions should probably take all those supplements.
> 
> Now we have STRONG evidence for Intermectin, a common drug that is so readily available its used in barns to treat horses by stable hands.  It's been around for decades, it is cheap, it is available world wide and under a doctor's care it appears to be very effective for treating and curing Covid-19.  Vitamin D, in IV form, has also been shown to be an effective treatment for Covid-19 in many patients.
> 
> But we are chasing multi-billion dollar vaccines when we have cheap cures.  I'm not anti-vaccine and plan to take at least 1 of them, possibly multiple vaccines against Covid-19 as per my doctor's suggestion.  But I'm baffled by the continued deaths as we ignore treatments and chase vaccines.
> 
> 
> FROM the WALL STREET JOURNAL:
> ​​Vaccines Are Coming but They Won’t End Covid-19 Anytime Soon​
> ​In the Philippines, inoculating the necessary 60 million to 70 million people could take up to five years, officials say​
> By​Dec. 13, 2020 8:00 am ET​Listen to this article​6 minutes​​As Covid-19 vaccine development picks up pace, the Philippines has drawn up an immunization plan. The bottom line, officials say: Getting doses to enough of the population to rein in the virus will take two to five years.​​That is the forecast for reaching the target of 60 million to 70 million of the country’s nearly 110 million people, they say, using a patchwork of vaccines from different suppliers. So far the Philippines has struck just one vaccine deal, for 2.6 million shots—enough for 1.3 million people.​​Manila’s early blueprint is a reality check for those expecting a swift vaccine-driven end to the pandemic and revival of global trade and travel. While some countries may be able to get shots to large portions of their populations in 2021, some in the developing world may be years away from protecting more than their highest-risk populations.​That means the virus will continue to circulate and claim lives in various corners of the map. Some global health specialists worry about a future in which the coronavirus lurks in such places, becoming endemic—and perhaps evolving in ways that make current vaccines less effective.​​“There’s no point having products that do not reach the majority of the world’s population,” said Soumya Swaminathan, chief scientist of the World Health Organization. She cited the hepatitis B vaccine, saying it took 30 years after its introduction in rich countries to reach low- and middle-income countries.​Only one disease—smallpox—has ever been eradicated from the human population using a vaccine.​​
> ​


I get it, you're very pro vitamin D, selenium, and zinc. What do you think about a cod liver oil gel tablet? They're relatively cheap and easy to take. I could probably choke one of those down. I haven't missed my vitamin supplement, not even one time, since you said all that about Vitamin D, selenium, and zinc. I'm kind of iffy about the melatonin right now


----------



## Melensdad

Ceee said:


> I get it, you're very pro vitamin D, selenium, and zinc. What do you think about a cod liver oil gel tablet? They're relatively cheap and easy to take. I could probably choke one of those down. I haven't missed my vitamin supplement, not even one time, since you said all that about Vitamin D, selenium, and zinc. I'm kind of iffy about the melatonin right now


I don’t think about cod liver oil.  I don’t even think about the supplements I take.  I study facts.  I read medical reports.  I listen to doctors who know far more than I.


----------



## Lenny

pirate_girl said:


> Of the 7 that were on our covid unit, 5 are good to go testing negative now.
> That's good news for us.
> It's NOTHING like it was during the first wave.
> That said, vaccines are coming soon, first to area hospitals, then us.
> They've been saying our medic friends from the national guard will be administering them.


That's good! 

How long does it normally take to go from positive to negative?


----------



## pirate_girl

Lenny said:


> That's good!
> 
> How long does it normally take to go from positive to negative?


In our experience it's been anywhere between a couple of weeks to a little over a month.


----------



## Melensdad

Well I’m past breeding age but this should be a concern for society.  A Chinese study confirms Covid -19 attacks men’s testicles.  So in addition to known long term lung issues and long term heart complications we now have infertility too. 





__





						New Chinese Study Confirms COVID-19 Attacks Testicles, May Affect Male Fertility | ZeroHedge
					

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero




					www.zerohedge.com
				




Full story at the link above, but a brief tidbit below:


New Chinese Study Confirms COVID-19 Attacks Testicles, May Affect Male Fertility​




BY TYLER DURDEN
TUESDAY, DEC 15, 2020 - 6:46
A new study has revealed that *SARS-CoV-2*, the virus which causes COVID-19, *infects the testicles and likely impacts male fertility*. Recall in March *we reported* that doctors in central Wuhan raised concerns over testicle damage after observing a lowered ratio of testosterone to luteinising hormone (T/LH).​


----------



## Melensdad

It is going to be a long winter.





__





						Zerohedge
					

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero




					zerohedge.com
				




NYC Mayor Warns 'Prepare For Possibility Of Full Shutdown'​




BY TYLER DURDEN
MONDAY, DEC 14, 2020 - 10:54
Stocks are leaking lower Monday morning, erasing some of this morning's vaccine-induced (and possibly dollar- and Brexit-induced) bump,after NYC Mayor Bill de Blasio brought up the possibility of a "full shutdown" of NYC on Monday, the day that restaurants in the city were forced to close as new bans on indoor dining went into effect.

As restaurant workers across the city took to social media to offer closing restaurants (many of which will probably never reopen) one last toast, the mayor warned that there could be even more economic pain ahead, as COVID numbers and hospitalizations climb across the city and across the state, even as its health-care workers will be among the first in the country to get the vaccine).

"There’s the potential of having to do a full pause, a full shutdown, in the coming weeks, because we can’t let this kind of momentum go," de Blasio said on CNN when asked Monday morning about comments made by Gov. Andrew Cuomo last week, when the governor warned about a bigger shutdown.

"We’re seeing the kind of level of infection with the coronavirus we haven’t seen since May and we have got to stop that momentum — or else, our hospital system will be threatened," de Blasio added, before warning that the virus must be stopped at whatever the cost due to the threat of "too much damage".


"This kind of momentum that the disease has right now? We’ve got to stop it. We’ve got to stop it before it causes too much damage, too much pain...and we have to stop it to give time for the vaccine to really be properly distributed."
Presumably, _not economic damage_, though.
Stocks are moving lower...



...and gold is ripping.
Conversely, NYC will push ahead with plans to return schools to in-person learning, with the city already moving to five days a week for as many schools as possible. With schools staying open, de Blasio explained "full shutdown"




Also:


NYC Mayor Floats Post-Christmas Lockdown, But Final Decision Rests With Cuomo​




BY TYLER DURDEN
TUESDAY, DEC 15, 2020 - 12:30
For the second time in two days, NYC Mayor Bill de Blasio is publicly discussing another full-blown lockdown in the city, even as he simultaneously pushes to reopen schools.
NBC New York reports that de Blasio stressed that a shutdown on par with the springtime "PAUSE" (that's the state's monicker for its springtime lockdown) will be necessary to curb the surging cases in the city and the state. On top of suggesting once again that another lockdown in the Big Apple is virtually inevitable at this point, the mayor offered some new details, with the caveat that the decision ultimately rests with Gov. Cuomo.
Unlike Germany and the Netherlands, who have encouraged citizens to simply accept a Christmas lockdown, de Blasio suggested that the lockdown might be delayed until after Christmas because - let's be real - it would simply be ignored, otherwise.
The comments come as NYC's 7-day positivity rate - that's the average percentage of those tested who test positive, seen as an important indicator of viral spread adjusted for the level of testing - tops 5.5%, its highest level since the spring. It has persisted above this level since Nov. 30. It's already above the 5% threshold seen as the cutoff where de Blasio once promised to impose heightened new restrictions akin to what New Yorkers endured back in the spring. The city is reporting an average of 2,813 new cases/day over the past week.​


----------



## Melensdad

My brother will get the Pfizer vaccine on Saturday.  He works for a hospital group, while not front line, he is deemed essential to their operation.


----------



## pirate_girl

Melensdad said:


> My brother will get the Pfizer vaccine on Saturday.  He works for a hospital group, while not front line, he is deemed essential to their operation.


Mercy Health (St. V)  in Toledo received their first shipment today.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

?









						12th resident of Southbridge Roseview has died
					

Read the full story and comment on Tbnewswatch.com




					www.tbnewswatch.com


----------



## Ceee

Melensdad said:


> I don’t think about cod liver oil.  I don’t even think about the supplements I take.  I study facts.  I read medical reports.  I listen to doctors who know far more than I.


I'm going to tell on myself.  I was looking at Vitamin D rich foods and the cod liver oil supplement popped up.  I ordered some gel tabs.  Then when I came back and read your reply, I went back and read the negative effects of too much Vit D.  I cancelled the stupid order.  I have a problem sometimes with thinking more is better.


----------



## Ceee

Melensdad said:


> It is going to be a long winter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zerohedge
> 
> 
> ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
> 
> 
> 
> 
> zerohedge.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NYC Mayor Warns 'Prepare For Possibility Of Full Shutdown'​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BY TYLER DURDEN
> MONDAY, DEC 14, 2020 - 10:54
> Stocks are leaking lower Monday morning, erasing some of this morning's vaccine-induced (and possibly dollar- and Brexit-induced) bump,after NYC Mayor Bill de Blasio brought up the possibility of a "full shutdown" of NYC on Monday, the day that restaurants in the city were forced to close as new bans on indoor dining went into effect.
> 
> As restaurant workers across the city took to social media to offer closing restaurants (many of which will probably never reopen) one last toast, the mayor warned that there could be even more economic pain ahead, as COVID numbers and hospitalizations climb across the city and across the state, even as its health-care workers will be among the first in the country to get the vaccine).
> 
> "There’s the potential of having to do a full pause, a full shutdown, in the coming weeks, because we can’t let this kind of momentum go," de Blasio said on CNN when asked Monday morning about comments made by Gov. Andrew Cuomo last week, when the governor warned about a bigger shutdown.
> 
> "We’re seeing the kind of level of infection with the coronavirus we haven’t seen since May and we have got to stop that momentum — or else, our hospital system will be threatened," de Blasio added, before warning that the virus must be stopped at whatever the cost due to the threat of "too much damage".
> 
> 
> "This kind of momentum that the disease has right now? We’ve got to stop it. We’ve got to stop it before it causes too much damage, too much pain...and we have to stop it to give time for the vaccine to really be properly distributed."
> Presumably, _not economic damage_, though.
> Stocks are moving lower...
> 
> 
> 
> ...and gold is ripping.
> Conversely, NYC will push ahead with plans to return schools to in-person learning, with the city already moving to five days a week for as many schools as possible. With schools staying open, de Blasio explained "full shutdown"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also:
> 
> ​​NYC Mayor Floats Post-Christmas Lockdown, But Final Decision Rests With Cuomo​
> 
> 
> BY TYLER DURDEN​TUESDAY, DEC 15, 2020 - 12:30​For the second time in two days, NYC Mayor Bill de Blasio is publicly discussing another full-blown lockdown in the city, even as he simultaneously pushes to reopen schools.​NBC New York reports that de Blasio stressed that a shutdown on par with the springtime "PAUSE" (that's the state's monicker for its springtime lockdown) will be necessary to curb the surging cases in the city and the state. On top of suggesting once again that another lockdown in the Big Apple is virtually inevitable at this point, the mayor offered some new details, with the caveat that the decision ultimately rests with Gov. Cuomo.​Unlike Germany and the Netherlands, who have encouraged citizens to simply accept a Christmas lockdown, de Blasio suggested that the lockdown might be delayed until after Christmas because - let's be real - it would simply be ignored, otherwise.​The comments come as NYC's 7-day positivity rate - that's the average percentage of those tested who test positive, seen as an important indicator of viral spread adjusted for the level of testing - tops 5.5%, its highest level since the spring. It has persisted above this level since Nov. 30. It's already above the 5% threshold seen as the cutoff where de Blasio once promised to impose heightened new restrictions akin to what New Yorkers endured back in the spring. The city is reporting an average of 2,813 new cases/day over the past week.​


"For the second time in two days, NYC Mayor Bill de Blasio is publicly discussing another full-blown lockdown in the city, even as he simultaneously pushes to reopen schools."

That makes absolutely no sense to me.  I'm going to guess that he doesn't have kids or grandkids in public school.


----------



## Melensdad

For the *CATHOLICS *among our membership you may want to hear what the US Conference of Catholic Bishops has to say.  Those of other faiths feel free to ignore the following which comes via Breitbart:  https://www.breitbart.com/health/20...ibility-to-be-vaccinated-against-coronavirus/


​
​_Leaders of the U.S. Bishops’ Conference (USCCB) declared Monday that Catholics have a “moral responsibility” to be vaccinated against the coronavirus._​​_“Receiving one of the COVID-19 vaccines ought to be understood as an act of charity toward the other members of our community,” state Fort Wayne Bishop Kevin Rhoades, chairman of the U.S Bishops’ Committee on Doctrine, and Kansas City Archbishop Joseph Naumann, chairman of the Committee on Pro-Life Activities, in a joint statement._​​_“In this way, being vaccinated safely against COVID-19 should be considered an act of love of our neighbor and part of our moral responsibility for the common good,” the bishops state._​​_The risk to public health posed by the coronavirus is very serious, the bishops assert, “as evidenced by the millions of infections worldwide and hundreds of thousands of deaths in the United States of America alone.”_​​_Moreover, “in many cases the most important effect of vaccination may not be the protection it offers to the person who receives the vaccination, who may be of relatively robust health and unlikely to be seriously affected by the disease,” they write. “Rather, the more important effect may be the protection it offers to those who are much more likely to be seriously stricken by the disease if they were to contract it through exposure to those infected.”_​​_The bishops do not make a pronouncement regarding the obligatory nature of allvaccines for all diseases, or where a line might be drawn between vaccines that are optional and those that are morally compulsory. They do, however, offer their judgment regarding the seriousness of the coronavirus._​​_“The world is currently facing a health crisis,” the bishops state. “The number of deaths from COVID-19 is now almost one and a half million worldwide. In the United States, the toll is approaching 300,000.”_​​_Along with their judgment regarding the morally binding nature of the coronavirus vaccine,* the bishops also add an extended reflection regarding the permissibility of using certain vaccines whose germ lines were originally obtained from the cells of aborted human fetuses.*_​​_“Given the urgency of this crisis, the lack of available alternative vaccines, and the fact that the connection between an abortion that occurred decades ago and receiving a vaccine produced today is remote, inoculation with the new COVID-19 vaccines in these circumstances can be morally justified,” they declare._​
It should be noted that they are exempting Catholics who take a vaccine that is partially derived from aborted human fetal cells.  But that said I looked into that matter and at least Pfizer has announced they did NOT use aborted fetal cells in the development of their particular vaccine.  There was at least 1 other that also stated they did not use fetal cells but I don't recall which that was.









Ceee said:


> "For the second time in two days, NYC Mayor Bill de Blasio is publicly discussing another full-blown lockdown in the city, even as he simultaneously pushes to reopen schools."
> 
> That makes absolutely no sense to me.  I'm going to guess that he doesn't have kids or grandkids in public school.


Actually there is a LOT of evidence that ELEMENTARY SCHOOL children do not pass the disease.  Several major medical associations, most notably those representing pediatricians, have urged the schools to be re-opened.  

Children under the age of 10-12 years old have modest lung capacity and apparently don't 'spew' out spittle when they talk, their ability to transmit the Covid disease is considered a very very low risk.  They are also at very high risk of neglect, lack of socialization, failure in school and several other things which include malnutrition if they are not in school.  So opening up schools is actually a good thing.  At least up to the middle-school aged kids.  Beyond that you can make an argument that we are just going to spread the disease around.  However our local school districts have been open this fall with only modest issues and very little spread.


----------



## Ceee

Melensdad said:


> For the *CATHOLICS *among our membership you may want to hear what the US Conference of Catholic Bishops has to say.  Those of other faiths feel free to ignore the following which comes via Breitbart:  https://www.breitbart.com/health/20...ibility-to-be-vaccinated-against-coronavirus/
> 
> 
> ​
> ​_Leaders of the U.S. Bishops’ Conference (USCCB) declared Monday that Catholics have a “moral responsibility” to be vaccinated against the coronavirus._​​_“Receiving one of the COVID-19 vaccines ought to be understood as an act of charity toward the other members of our community,” state Fort Wayne Bishop Kevin Rhoades, chairman of the U.S Bishops’ Committee on Doctrine, and Kansas City Archbishop Joseph Naumann, chairman of the Committee on Pro-Life Activities, in a joint statement._​​_“In this way, being vaccinated safely against COVID-19 should be considered an act of love of our neighbor and part of our moral responsibility for the common good,” the bishops state._​​_The risk to public health posed by the coronavirus is very serious, the bishops assert, “as evidenced by the millions of infections worldwide and hundreds of thousands of deaths in the United States of America alone.”_​​_Moreover, “in many cases the most important effect of vaccination may not be the protection it offers to the person who receives the vaccination, who may be of relatively robust health and unlikely to be seriously affected by the disease,” they write. “Rather, the more important effect may be the protection it offers to those who are much more likely to be seriously stricken by the disease if they were to contract it through exposure to those infected.”_​​_The bishops do not make a pronouncement regarding the obligatory nature of allvaccines for all diseases, or where a line might be drawn between vaccines that are optional and those that are morally compulsory. They do, however, offer their judgment regarding the seriousness of the coronavirus._​​_“The world is currently facing a health crisis,” the bishops state. “The number of deaths from COVID-19 is now almost one and a half million worldwide. In the United States, the toll is approaching 300,000.”_​​_Along with their judgment regarding the morally binding nature of the coronavirus vaccine,* the bishops also add an extended reflection regarding the permissibility of using certain vaccines whose germ lines were originally obtained from the cells of aborted human fetuses.*_​​_“Given the urgency of this crisis, the lack of available alternative vaccines, and the fact that the connection between an abortion that occurred decades ago and receiving a vaccine produced today is remote, inoculation with the new COVID-19 vaccines in these circumstances can be morally justified,” they declare._​
> It should be noted that they are exempting Catholics who take a vaccine that is partially derived from aborted human fetal cells.  But that said I looked into that matter and at least Pfizer has announced they did NOT use aborted fetal cells in the development of their particular vaccine.  There was at least 1 other that also stated they did not use fetal cells but I don't recall which that was.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually there is a LOT of evidence that ELEMENTARY SCHOOL children do not pass the disease.  Several major medical associations, most notably those representing pediatricians, have urged the schools to be re-opened.
> 
> Children under the age of 10-12 years old have modest lung capacity and apparently don't 'spew' out spittle when they talk, their ability to transmit the Covid disease is considered a very very low risk.  They are also at very high risk of neglect, lack of socialization, failure in school and several other things which include malnutrition if they are not in school.  So opening up schools is actually a good thing.  At least up to the middle-school aged kids.  Beyond that you can make an argument that we are just going to spread the disease around.  However our local school districts have been open this fall with only modest issues and very little spread.


"They are also at very high risk of neglect, lack of socialization, failure in school and several other things which include malnutrition if they are not in school."

I do agree with the above quote.  I taught public school for a very long time and taught a lot of those kids who ate the free breakfasts and lunches.  

This is the kind of stuff that bothers me:

"AUSTIN, Texas (KLTV/KTRE) - The Texas Department of State Health Services states a combination of nearly 40,000 students and staff at public schools have contracted COVID-19 this school year.
The report states 24,439 students reported tested positive for COVID-19 by Nov. 8 and 14,852 staff tested positive."

The above is kind of old info.  For some reason, the Tx Dept of State Health Services decided to quit reporting covid cases in the public schools. State funding for schools in Tx is dependent on attendance, so who knows why that decision was made.

BTW, you are a wealth of information, and I appreciate it.


----------



## pirate_girl

Louis Farrakhan is calling the vaccine toxic waste??!!
I won't put his garbage in this thread,you can Google it yourselves.
Unreal.


----------



## Melensdad

pirate_girl said:


> Louis Farrakhan is calling the vaccine toxic waste??!!
> I won't put his garbage in this thread,you can Google it yourselves.
> Unreal.


I saw it too and decided not to post it.  Perhaps his Covid vaccine video belongs in the Jokes area?!?


----------



## Melensdad

Here is a metadata accumulation of various studies for some of the things I've been writing about.

IVERMECTIN --> https://c19ivermectin.com

*•Ivermectin is effective for COVID-19. 100% of studies report positive effects. The probability that an ineffective treatment generated results as positive as the 24 studies to date is estimated to be 1 in 17 million (p = 0.00000006).
•Early treatment is most successful, with an estimated reduction of 87% in the effect measured using a random effects meta-analysis, RR 0.13 [0.04-0.51].
•100% of the 10 Randomized Controlled Trials (RCTs) report positive effects, with an estimated reduction of 74% in the effect measured using a random effects meta-analysis, RR 0.26 [0.12-0.56].*


Early treatment↓86%38 ivermectin studies
15 peer reviewed


----------



## Melensdad

VITAMIN D -->  https://c19vitamind.com





COVID-19 case, ↓43.5%, p=0.001, >30ng/ml


----------



## pirate_girl

St. V's staff at Mercy getting their vaccines today.
Respect!!!
❤
Dr. Tita, Chief Medical Officer was first.


----------



## Doc

Did you get the vaccine PG?


----------



## Melensdad

So this is happening.  A home test & soon we will have a second vaccine. 

Link —> https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/fda-second-vaccine-rapid-coronavirus-tests
​The Food and Drug Administration approved the first over-the-counter coronavirus test just days before the agency is expected to authorize a second vaccine manufactured by Moderna.​​The FDA issued an emergency use authorization Tuesday for the Ellume COVID-19 Home Test, the first over-the-counter diagnostic test for COVID-19. Ellume Health, a developer of diagnostic medical tests based in Australia, says the test can be used anywhere and returns results in 15 minutes.​


----------



## pirate_girl

Doc said:


> Did you get the vaccine PG?


Not yet, the hospitals are first.
I'll be sure to let you all know when my time comes.


----------



## JimVT

pirate_girl said:


> Not yet, the hospitals are first.
> I'll be sure to let you all know when my time comes.


you'll get the industrial strength??


----------



## pirate_girl

JimVT said:


> you'll get the industrial strength??











						NW Ohio nursing homes preparing to receive COVID-19 vaccine
					

Some residents in facilities across northwest Ohio will be getting their first shot at the start of next week.




					www.wtol.com
				





We're likely getting the Pfizer first dose sometime around next Monday.
I just got word that Fulton Manor (near here) and the Lutheran Home across town are receiving theirs then.
I would imagine we're going to be then or very soon after.
Am I scared?
You bet your ass I am.
I'd rather have a vaccine with some uncomfortable/ possibly bad side effects than to have a virus that has put some of my coworkers and residents through absolute hell.


----------



## Melensdad

One of my college roommates got it today.  He is a surgeon.  My S-I-L gets it the 29th, she is a dental hygienist.


----------



## pirate_girl

Good related articles within the link as well.









						WATCH: Doctors at Wexner Medical Center discuss COVID-19 vaccine expereince
					

The weekly briefing will also feature a discussion on how COVID-19 is impacting cancer care.




					www.10tv.com


----------



## Melensdad

Despite the evidence, the National Institutes of Health has not studied Ivermectin and currently is not recommending its use for Covid-19 treatment in the US.









						Ivermectin | COVID-19 Treatment Guidelines
					

Review clinical data on the use of ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19.



					www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov


----------



## Melensdad

Apparently there have been 3 people who had reactions to the Pfizer vaccine.  2 in England.  1 in Alaska.  Both of the English recipients had known severe allergies and carried the US equivalent of an epi-pen.  The health care worker in Alaska is not known to have a history of severe allergies.

One of my college friends is a doctor and is getting his injection on Saturday, he said he's report any side effects, etc.  As I noted previously both my brother and his wife are getting their Pfeizer injections (_I think both on Saturday too_).  So if I hear of any adverse reactions I'll keep you all posted.  I am suspecting they may have injection site pain and other normal issues associated with getting other vaccines.

Given how many people are getting this vaccine, and given that the entire is world is watching, to hear of only 3 serious reactions, each successfully treated with epinephrin, seems to be a good sign for the rest of us.  The MODERNA vaccine is scheduled to be approved in a matter of a few days, no doubt injections of that vaccine will begin next week.  I believe it is a similar RNA vaccine so we may see some similar reactions by a small number of people to the injections.

Partial story below, full story here -->  https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/16/health/covid-pfizer-vaccine-allergic-reaction.html

​​Alaska Health Worker Had a Serious Allergic Reaction After Pfizer’s Vaccine​
​The person had no history of allergies. Two similar reactions happened last week in Britain.​
Dec. 16, 2020Updated 2:54 p.m. ET​​WASHINGTON — A health care worker in Alaska had a serious allergic reaction after getting Pfizer’s coronavirus vaccine on Tuesday and remained hospitalized on Wednesday morning under observation.​​The middle-aged worker had no history of allergies, but had an anaphylactic reaction that began 10 minutes after receiving the vaccine at Bartlett Regional Hospital in Juneau, Alaska, a hospital official said. The reaction included flushing and shortness of breath.​​Dr. Lindy Jones, the emergency department medical director at the hospital, said the reaction subsided soon after the worker was treated with epinephrine. He said the worker remained enthusiastic that she had received the vaccine and was set to be discharged later on Wednesday.​“She is healthy and she is doing well,” Dr. Jones said.​


----------



## pirate_girl

Vice President Mike Pence and second lady Karen Pence will be vaccinated publicly on Friday, the vice president's office confirmed. The vice president will be the most high-profile person yet to publicly receive the coronavirus vaccine. 

President Trump, who had COVID-19 in October, has not yet committed to taking the vaccine on television. Mr. Trump has said he looks forward to taking the vaccine at the appropriate time.


----------



## Lenny

pirate_girl said:


> Vice President Mike Pence and second lady Karen Pence will be vaccinated publicly on Friday, the vice president's office confirmed. The vice president will be the most high-profile person yet to publicly receive the coronavirus vaccine.
> 
> President Trump, who had COVID-19 in October, has not yet committed to taking the vaccine on television. Mr. Trump has said he looks forward to taking the vaccine at the appropriate time.


If the Democrats and news medias start whining about President Trump not taking the vaccine in public, he should tell them he invited Bill, Hillary, joe, the rest and he's waiting for them to respond.


----------



## pirate_girl

Lenny said:


> If the Democrats and news medias start whining about President Trump not taking the vaccine in public, he should tell them he invited Bill, Hillary, joe, the rest and he's waiting for them to respond.


They could ALL do themselves a big favour in the eyes of the world and publicly receive the vaccine.


----------



## Melensdad

pirate_girl said:


> President Trump, who had COVID-19 in October, has not yet committed to taking the vaccine on television. Mr. Trump has said he looks forward to taking the vaccine at the appropriate time.


I'm sorry but this bit of so-called new reporting is just bulls#!t

If you had covid then you are immune or partially immune already. 

*Why didn't the news report say: *
​
​​_"Because President had COVID-19 in October he has built up some level of immunity and is considered very low risk for getting COVID in the near future, any TV opportunity to take the vaccine would be similar to the liberal virtual signaling crap that most Democratic polticians shove down our throats to show us they are superior to little people and subjects over which they rule."_​​


----------



## Melensdad

By the way let's go back and look at Vitamin D.

This from England, Dr John Campbell, who is a doctor of nursing and research, he is not an infectious disease doctor.  But he gives a widely watched daily update on Covid-19 and has been doing so since before this disease was designated as a pandemic.  His audience is worldwide and widely respected by medical professionals.

Here is the latest UPDATE on Vitamin D:


----------



## Doc

Good info guys.  THANKS.

We got some bad news about a coworker's husband.   Both in their 50's.   He had been in the covid ICU and they are releasing him from there and moving him to a hospice setting.   I hear of more and more family and local folks here being exposited.   Scary times.   I look forward to getting the vaccine.


----------



## jimbo

Vaccines take years to develop and more to test.  For good reason.  I am extremely skeptical of anything that is rushed to market.  I'll wait and see.


----------



## Melensdad

jimbo said:


> *Vaccines take years to develop* and more to test.  For good reason.  I am extremely skeptical of anything that is rushed to market.  I'll wait and see.


Jim this is generally true.  And I agree that testing, in this case, is rushed.  But as for the development side, near as my personal research can tell (_and I am not in any way a medical professional_) it appears that the dramatic advancements in computer technology sped up the DNA sequencing that normally takes years and reduced that into a matter of weeks.  Computer modeling was also used, on super computers, to test theoretical combinations of drugs/elements to create possible candidates for vaccines.  

While I am also skeptical about long term effects of these vaccines I am planning to take one, or more, vaccine.  The technology behind this is simply awe inspiring and much of the impetus for this occurring can rightfully be credited to President Trump (_of whom most of you know I am very critical for some of his actions_) by mobilizing the efforts of our top universities and private companies.


----------



## Melensdad

And now for some good news from GOLDMAN SACHS via ZeroHedge.


Here's Why Covid Hospitalizations And Deaths Are About To Plunge​Addressing one of the more pressing topics to emerge from the current wave of covid infections, in a report published this morning Goldman's John Marshall says that fears of overcrowded hospitals are overblown and predicts that "*the first wave of vaccinations has the potential to have a significant impact on total US COVID-19 related hospitalizations." *More importantly, after modeling the impact of the vaccine rollout, he expects that covid-linked hospitalizations in the next month will tumble, dropping to virtually zero by the end of January.

As the Goldman analyst notes, "while vaccination of the broad population will have important implications for the overall number of cases and limiting ongoing community spread, *the targeted roll-out of vaccinations to high-risk individuals is likely to have a rapid effect on key hospitalization metrics."*

According to Goldman, hospital utilization has been a key factor driving reopening sentiment, with campaigns to “flatten the curve” in March/April having the stated goal of reducing the potential for the pandemic to overwhelm the hospital system. As such, "the rise in hospitalizations in recent weeks has increased discussions of whether additional restrictions/closures are appropriate and has coincided with sideways trading in stocks levered to the reopening of the economy over the past nine trading days."

However, this is about to change and in the next few weeks, Goldman believes "*a rapid decline in hospitalizations driven by the first phase of the vaccine distribution has the potential to be a key inflection point in investor sentiment on the reopening of the economy." *These reduced hospitalizations are likely to lead to reduced COVID-19 deaths, "which will boost sentiment even more broadly."

Here are some details on why hospitals will likely see the fastest benefits from the vaccine rollout:



> Long-term Care Facilities (LTCFs) are among the first to receive vaccinations: *On Sunday, the United States Secretary of Health and Human Services, Alex Azar, noted that he expects “all” residents and staff of LTCFs to be vaccinated “before Christmas”. *While the 2-3 million residents and staff in LTCFs are only a small fraction of the 20 million vaccines expected to be administered before year-end, our analysis suggests they have the potential to huge impact on overall hospitalizations.


This is important because such long-term care facilities *represent a high proportion of the most vulnerable population and hospitalizations: *early in the pandemic, *residents of LTCFs represented 18% of all COVID-19 cases despite being less than 1% of the population*. To date, Goldman calculates that *LTCFs account for about 40% of COVID-19 related deaths. *

While over time the development of strict controls and frequent testing has reduced the proportion of cases from LTCFs, the frequency of hospitalization remains high, and according to Goldman *around 25% of all US hospitalizations are still attributable to LTCFs, down from 30-40% earlier in the pandemic. *While the bank's model considers a variety of other factors to estimate the timing of the impact, it notes that "*it's easy to see that eliminating the source of 25% of hospitalizations by vaccinating this group in just a few days can have a profound impact on the burden on the health care system.*"

Taking a step back from LTCFs, Goldman notes that hospitalizations among the general population related to COVID-19 have grown 1.1% per day over the past month to 115,000. So, if one assumes that 25% of total hospitalizations are from LTCFs and 75% are from other sources, there is still a large and growing number of hospitalizations that are unrelated to LTCFs - needless to say, there is little that a covid vaccine will do for those (which is why Goldman assumes that 75% of the total hospitalizations will continue to grow unabated at 1.1% per day.)

As to why Goldman is so optimistic, it goes to the vaccine effectiveness: as Goldman points out, according to recent studies the Pfizer/BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine was 82% effective after the first dose and 95% effective seven or more days after the second dose. For the purposes of modeling hospitalizations, *the bank assumed that the vaccine is 82% effective in preventing infections starting 14 days after the first dose. *It then found that its timing estimate is not particularly sensitive to changes in the vaccine effectiveness; hospitalizations decline one day later if you assume the vaccine is only 50% effective after the first dose. Therefore, the timing estimate is directly related to the number of days before the vaccine provides protection.

Bottom line: when Goldman ran its model, it found that *hospitalizations due to covid begin to decline around January 9th. *In other words, for overall hospitalizations to begin to decline, it would take just a 3.3% reduction in daily net hospitalizations from LTCFs (25% of total) to counteract the 1.1% daily growth in “other net hospitalizations” (75% of total). Marshall estimates this occurs after 14 days after 30% of LTCF residents and staff have received one dose of the PFE/BNTX COVID-19 vaccine. Assuming that vaccinations of 30% of LTCF residents and staff occurs by 26-Dec, *Goldman expects total US hospitalizations to begin to decline around Jan 9 and drop to nearly zero by the end of the month.*




​LINK -->https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/h...ations-and-deaths-are-about-plunge-next-month


----------



## jimbo

Melensdad said:


> Jim this is generally true.  And I agree that testing, in this case, is rushed.  But as for the development side, near as my personal research can tell (_and I am not in any way a medical professional_) it appears that the dramatic advancements in computer technology sped up the DNA sequencing that normally takes years and reduced that into a matter of weeks.  Computer modeling was also used, on super computers, to test theoretical combinations of drugs/elements to create possible candidates for vaccines.
> 
> While I am also skeptical about long term effects of these vaccines I am planning to take one, or more, vaccine.  The technology behind this is simply awe inspiring and much of the impetus for this occurring can rightfully be credited to President Trump (_of whom most of you know I am very critical for some of his actions_) by mobilizing the efforts of our top universities and private companies.


It also worries me that the CEO of Pfizer sold 6 million dollars worth of his stock last week.  And the stock is falling some 10% over the past week.  Somebody knows something.


----------



## pirate_girl

I now have in my posession:
A declination form.
A consent form.
And several fact sheets from OHCA.
I'm good to go when the time comes.


----------



## jimbo

Melensdad said:


> And now for some good news from GOLDMAN SACHS via ZeroHedge.
> 
> ​​Here's Why Covid Hospitalizations And Deaths Are About To Plunge​
> Addressing one of the more pressing topics to emerge from the current wave of covid infections, in a report published this morning Goldman's John Marshall says that fears of overcrowded hospitals are overblown and predicts that "*the first wave of vaccinations has the potential to have a significant impact on total US COVID-19 related hospitalizations." *More importantly, after modeling the impact of the vaccine rollout, he expects that covid-linked hospitalizations in the next month will tumble, dropping to virtually zero by the end of January.​​As the Goldman analyst notes, "while vaccination of the broad population will have important implications for the overall number of cases and limiting ongoing community spread, *the targeted roll-out of vaccinations to high-risk individuals is likely to have a rapid effect on key hospitalization metrics."*​​According to Goldman, hospital utilization has been a key factor driving reopening sentiment, with campaigns to “flatten the curve” in March/April having the stated goal of reducing the potential for the pandemic to overwhelm the hospital system. As such, "the rise in hospitalizations in recent weeks has increased discussions of whether additional restrictions/closures are appropriate and has coincided with sideways trading in stocks levered to the reopening of the economy over the past nine trading days."​​However, this is about to change and in the next few weeks, Goldman believes "*a rapid decline in hospitalizations driven by the first phase of the vaccine distribution has the potential to be a key inflection point in investor sentiment on the reopening of the economy." *These reduced hospitalizations are likely to lead to reduced COVID-19 deaths, "which will boost sentiment even more broadly."​​Here are some details on why hospitals will likely see the fastest benefits from the vaccine rollout:​​​This is important because such long-term care facilities *represent a high proportion of the most vulnerable population and hospitalizations: *early in the pandemic, *residents of LTCFs represented 18% of all COVID-19 cases despite being less than 1% of the population*. To date, Goldman calculates that *LTCFs account for about 40% of COVID-19 related deaths. *​​While over time the development of strict controls and frequent testing has reduced the proportion of cases from LTCFs, the frequency of hospitalization remains high, and according to Goldman *around 25% of all US hospitalizations are still attributable to LTCFs, down from 30-40% earlier in the pandemic. *While the bank's model considers a variety of other factors to estimate the timing of the impact, it notes that "*it's easy to see that eliminating the source of 25% of hospitalizations by vaccinating this group in just a few days can have a profound impact on the burden on the health care system.*"​​Taking a step back from LTCFs, Goldman notes that hospitalizations among the general population related to COVID-19 have grown 1.1% per day over the past month to 115,000. So, if one assumes that 25% of total hospitalizations are from LTCFs and 75% are from other sources, there is still a large and growing number of hospitalizations that are unrelated to LTCFs - needless to say, there is little that a covid vaccine will do for those (which is why Goldman assumes that 75% of the total hospitalizations will continue to grow unabated at 1.1% per day.)​​As to why Goldman is so optimistic, it goes to the vaccine effectiveness: as Goldman points out, according to recent studies the Pfizer/BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine was 82% effective after the first dose and 95% effective seven or more days after the second dose. For the purposes of modeling hospitalizations, *the bank assumed that the vaccine is 82% effective in preventing infections starting 14 days after the first dose. *It then found that its timing estimate is not particularly sensitive to changes in the vaccine effectiveness; hospitalizations decline one day later if you assume the vaccine is only 50% effective after the first dose. Therefore, the timing estimate is directly related to the number of days before the vaccine provides protection.​​Bottom line: when Goldman ran its model, it found that *hospitalizations due to covid begin to decline around January 9th. *In other words, for overall hospitalizations to begin to decline, it would take just a 3.3% reduction in daily net hospitalizations from LTCFs (25% of total) to counteract the 1.1% daily growth in “other net hospitalizations” (75% of total). Marshall estimates this occurs after 14 days after 30% of LTCF residents and staff have received one dose of the PFE/BNTX COVID-19 vaccine. Assuming that vaccinations of 30% of LTCF residents and staff occurs by 26-Dec, *Goldman expects total US hospitalizations to begin to decline around Jan 9 and drop to nearly zero by the end of the month.*​​
> 
> ​​​LINK -->https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/h...ations-and-deaths-are-about-plunge-next-month


That's all well and good, but it's all speculation. Nothing about what's happening,  Lots about what might  happen.   Seems to me like no one has a clue.  

I hope I'm wrong.


----------



## Melensdad

jimbo said:


> That's all well and good, but it's all speculation. Nothing about what's happening,  Lots about what might  happen.   Seems to me like no one has a clue.
> 
> I hope I'm wrong.


True, its just part of an economic forecast from GOLDMAN SACHS


----------



## NorthernRedneck

The province has issued a notice to every school in the province to bring home anything they might need to homeschool in January just in case covid numbers spike over the Christmas break. We reminded our kids to bring all their junk home.


----------



## pirate_girl

Next week I'll be getting vaxed.
There's still some question about the safety but I figure I haven't had the virus, I don't want to get the virus so either way I'm taking a chance according to some.
Right now I'm feeling hopeful.
If I should have a reaction I know where to go and what to do.


----------



## pirate_girl

'I didn't feel a thing.' Vice President Mike Pence gets COVID-19 vaccine on camera


----------



## Melensdad

My brother goes for his Cofid shot late this afternoon.  I'll post any adverse reactions he reports.

One of my college buddies got his Covid shot yesterday.

Here is his update:

Only symptom is a sore left shoulder injection site. Yes it’s more sore than with an influenza injection....like a hard punch to the shoulder.
If I could in the future I’d get the shot in my ass. I don’t like having an ache in my left shoulder when I play golf. But anyhow other than that
1. No fever
2. No chills
3. No rigors
4. No other aches other than shoulder
5. No improved memory
6. No new super powers
7. I can’t speak Russian
8. I still think Biden is a puppet,Bozo idiot...
9. I don’t her voices
10. China isn’t my favorite country.​


----------



## Ceee

Melensdad said:


> My brother goes for his Cofid shot late this afternoon.  I'll post any adverse reactions he reports.
> 
> One of my college buddies got his Covid shot yesterday.
> 
> Here is his update:
> ​Only symptom is a sore left shoulder injection site. Yes it’s more sore than with an influenza injection....like a hard punch to the shoulder.​If I could in the future I’d get the shot in my ass. I don’t like having an ache in my left shoulder when I play golf. But anyhow other than that​1. No fever​2. No chills​3. No rigors​4. No other aches other than shoulder​5. No improved memory​6. No new super powers​7. I can’t speak Russian​8. I still think Biden is a puppet,Bozo idiot...​9. I don’t her voices​10. China isn’t my favorite country.​


Thanks for that
It's great to hear from someone who has actually had the vaccine.  Your college buddy obviously has a great sense of humor.  With all the sitting I've been doing lately, I think I'd rather have it in my left arm rather than my butt.

The more I've read and the more I've learned about the vaccine, I'm now more comfortable with getting the vaccine.  I'll do it when my turn comes around.  I'll probably be pretty low on the totem pole.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

Meanwhile two more nursing homes here are declaring an outbreak despite the numbers having dropped over the past couple days for our area. Still low for a population base off approximately 160000 people over a large area. I think we're sitting at 104 active cases.


----------



## Melensdad

Just got a socially-distand & masked visit from a young friend of ours.  His brother and the whole family have Covid.  Caught it from an in-law who had been in and out of the hospital, figure she caught it during one of the visits.  She spent some time in the hospital being treated for Covid and apparently they were not sure she would survive.

She passed it to her daughter, who in tern brought it home and infected the whole family.  So my friend's brother has had pretty serious symptoms for a few days, like someone is standing on his chest.  But he is being treated at home.  The kids don't have it as bad.


----------



## Backyardski

Remember me, hehe?
This is the thread I left the forum on back in mid July, figured it would be a good one to return to so it’s not too awkward. Sorry, I can’t stay away from the snowcat talk once the snow flies. That was mid Julyish if anyone cares to go remember. I think we’ve all learned quite a bit more about the virus since then..

I’ve got a first hand experience to share. 

The Tuesday before Thanksgiving I had a few beers with my neighbor and his bro around a fire, as we have done through the summer and fall. Infection rates were nearly nonexistent around here last summer and fall. As a family we always wore masks in stores, near anyone at increased risk, anywhere we’d end up close to people but slowly got complacent (complicit?) with the kids having friends over or a family hanging out by the pool or whatever. So having a beer outside with the neighbor was,in my mind, low risk for a long time.
He had just poured concrete countertops for his basement bar and built a bunch of cabinets/shelves in his media room. We looked at the counters for 5 min, walked down the hall to the media room, talked for 5-10 min and listened to a song on his system, then went back outside. Never shoulder to shoulders or within the six feet but for the walk down the hall. no masks.
A week later(!) he told me he got a fever the day after I was there and had body aches and chills for three days. (He ended up coughing hard and was weak for a full two weeks as well.)
He was guessing maybe Covid, but there were other viruses floating around, I said he should probably get tested. The next night, Wednesday 12/2 I had a restless sleep and felt a little off the next day. He called that day to see if anyone was sick at our house and I said how I was feeling, then I asked if he ever got tested, no, but his brother tested positive early that week!
I really doubted I had exposed myself (how many times have I had to say that??? It’s zero.
 well maybe I got a peeing in public fine when I was 21 but it was dark and into a bush so no exposure.) So that Friday I went and got tested and yeppers.
It was a really mild case, the one day of aches, no fever, cough etc. on the 5th I lost sense of smell, almost fully back now. I got out of isolation last Sunday and the kids and wife were released from quarantine yesterday. I had the bedroom to myself, wore an N95 anytime I was in common areas and opened cabinets and doors with a towel or bleach wipe and didn’t spread it to my wife or 4 boys.

I’m relieved to have had it being as mild as it was, I don’t have to wonder if it would be bad for me now and presume I have a little immunity for the time being.
That said, my wife’s office manager’s cousin who is about the same age, was diagnosed after me and is in the ICU with multiple organ failure. She is a nurse, had ppe but probably had a bigger exposure. I’m assuming my case was mild due to the brothers being asymptotic when they passed it to me. I wasn’t coughing so that’s probably why my family didn’t get infected.

it really is a strange virus.

we are totally gun-shy about exposure now, mainly for the quarantine reason but also a little of the unknown about how the rest of us will fair. It’s tough having the kids out of school for so long. I won’t be annoying or really follow this too closely, just wanted to share my experience as they vary so greatly.

mike


----------



## m1west

Where


Backyardski said:


> Remember me, hehe?
> This is the thread I left the forum on back in mid July, figured it would be a good one to return to so it’s not too awkward. Sorry, I can’t stay away from the snowcat talk once the snow flies. That was mid Julyish if anyone cares to go remember. I think we’ve all learned quite a bit more about the virus since then..
> 
> I’ve got a first hand experience to share.
> 
> The Tuesday before Thanksgiving I had a few beers with my neighbor and his bro around a fire, as we have done through the summer and fall. Infection rates were nearly nonexistent around here last summer and fall. As a family we always wore masks in stores, near anyone at increased risk, anywhere we’d end up close to people but slowly got complacent (complicit?) with the kids having friends over or a family hanging out by the pool or whatever. So having a beer outside with the neighbor was,in my mind, low risk for a long time.
> He had just poured concrete countertops for his basement bar and built a bunch of cabinets/shelves in his media room. We looked at the counters for 5 min, walked down the hall to the media room, talked for 5-10 min and listened to a song on his system, then went back outside. Never shoulder to shoulders or within the six feet but for the walk down the hall. no masks.
> A week later(!) he told me he got a fever the day after I was there and had body aches and chills for three days. (He ended up coughing hard and was weak for a full two weeks as well.)
> He was guessing maybe Covid, but there were other viruses floating around, I said he should probably get tested. The next night, Wednesday 12/2 I had a restless sleep and felt a little off the next day. He called that day to see if anyone was sick at our house and I said how I was feeling, then I asked if he ever got tested, no, but his brother tested positive early that week!
> I really doubted I had exposed myself (how many times have I had to say that??? It’s zero.
> well maybe I got a peeing in public fine when I was 21 but it was dark and into a bush so no exposure.) So that Friday I went and got tested and yeppers.
> It was a really mild case, the one day of aches, no fever, cough etc. on the 5th I lost sense of smell, almost fully back now. I got out of isolation last Sunday and the kids and wife were released from quarantine yesterday. I had the bedroom to myself, wore an N95 anytime I was in common areas and opened cabinets and doors with a towel or bleach wipe and didn’t spread it to my wife or 4 boys.
> 
> I’m relieved to have had it being as mild as it was, I don’t have to wonder if it would be bad for me now and presume I have a little immunity for the time being.
> That said, my wife’s office manager’s cousin who is about the same age, was diagnosed after me and is in the ICU with multiple organ failure. She is a nurse, had ppe but probably had a bigger exposure. I’m assuming my case was mild due to the brothers being asymptotic when they passed it to me. I wasn’t coughing so that’s probably why my family didn’t get infected.
> 
> it really is a strange virus.
> 
> we are totally gun-shy about exposure now, mainly for the quarantine reason but also a little of the unknown about how the rest of us will fair. It’s tough having the kids out of school for so long. I won’t be annoying or really follow this too closely, just wanted to share my experience as they vary so greatly.
> 
> mike


Good to see you back, I kinda miss the back and forth. It was always in good spirit and never disrespectful. Good to hear you got a mild case of the COVID. I haven't gotten it but know some that have and it was mild like yours. Marty


----------



## Melensdad

Backyardski said:


> Remember me, hehe?
> ...
> 
> *it really is a strange virus.*
> 
> we are totally gun-shy about exposure now, mainly for the quarantine reason but also a little of the unknown about how the rest of us will fair. It’s tough having the kids out of school for so long. I won’t be annoying or really follow this too closely, just wanted to share my experience as they vary so greatly.
> 
> mike


Mike thanks for coming back and adding your insight to this.  There are a lot of people who started out skeptical and then became 'believers' and a lot of started out believers and became 'skeptics' over the course of this virus.  Glad you only got a mild case.


----------



## Melensdad

Just a SUMMARY of some of the major bits of COVID news that I've gathered along with a personal story.  A young friend of mine (30 years old) has been fighting covid for about a week.  He said it is difficult to breathe.  His whole family has it, including his mother in law.  She is in the hospital with Covid, she was given a 50-50 chance of survival.  Under normal years they celebrate major holidays at my home.  Obviously not this year.


LONDON and the whole of the south/east of England is on their most strict lockdown yet.  A new form of the Covid virus was identified.  Several European and middle Eastern nations have now halted all airline flights from England.  The new form of Covid apparently transmits 70% more quickly/efficiently than the earlier form.  So far most of the cases of this new mutation are confined to London/SE England but that will not last too long.  The GOOD NEWS is that while it transmits more easily, it does NOT appear to be more lethal.  At least some scientists believe the vaccine will be effective against this mutation.


Based on the C.D.C. numbers, in the USA over 270,000 people were vaccinated as of Saturday.  Approximately 2.7% of the people receiving the vaccine have had an "adverse" reaction to the vaccine.  Most of those reactions were things like fatigue, fever, chills, muscle aches/soreness, etc that lasted for 24+ hours.  Some required a night in a hospital, mostly for observation and simple treatment.  These people are NOT seriously sick, but basically felt sick for about a day.  This 2.7% does NOT include injection site pain.  I've been able to identify 6 serious reactions to the vaccine that involved anaphylactic shock.  Those 6 cases included 2 in England, 4 in the US.  All 6 were treated with an epipen (or equivalent), all 6 survived.  At least 4 where known to have had serious allergic reactions to prior medications and had their own epipens. 


CDC Admits Drug Overdose Deaths Are Accelerating During COVID-19 Pandemic​_“People are worried about a possible second wave of the virus, but *I can guarantee we will have a second wave of mental health crisis, which is already unfolding* with increased suicides, drug overdoses, and alcohol use. . . ”_​


----------



## NorthernRedneck

Our province just announced a 28 day full lockdown starting Christmas eve. Merry f-cking Christmas. For most of the province it's a 28 day lockdown. For regions in the north it's 2 weeks.

All I know is that I better not see our pansy assed poster boy prime Minister our galavanting around like he did at easter while we were all stuck at home.


----------



## Melensdad

My Russian foreign exchange student/fencing student is in Kiev, Ukraine with her mom.  She is due to return mid January.  With all the lockdowns in various countries I’m actually wondering if she will be able to fly out?/in?


----------



## pirate_girl

Melensdad said:


> Mike thanks for coming back and adding your insight to this.  There are a lot of people who started out skeptical and then became 'believers' and a lot of started out believers and became 'skeptics' over the course of this virus.  Glad you only got a mild case.


We're believers.
We've lived through the hell and are currently seeing that our residents are being protected.
My buddy Jules, the best nurses aide on the planet.
Don't ask me who that nurse is on the right.
(Ignore the bag of snacks in my hand, 'tis the season)


?


----------



## EastTexFrank

pirate_girl said:


> (Ignore the bag of snacks in my hand, 'tis the season)
> 
> 
> ?


You're gripping on to them as if you are daring someone to come take them from you.  Not me girl, not me.  I didn't reach this ripe old age by being stupid.


----------



## pirate_girl

EastTexFrank said:


> You're gripping on to them as if you are daring someone to come take them from you.  Not me girl, not me.  I didn't reach this ripe old age by being stupid.


I'm daring covid to take any more of my beloved people from us.
We're getting the vaccine this week.
I'm not one damn bit afraid.
I'll let you all know if I turn into some strange alien life form with an extra head or the ability to leap tall buildings in a single bound.
Lol


----------



## Melensdad

pirate_girl said:


> I'm daring covid to take any more of my beloved people from us.
> We're getting the vaccine this week.
> I'm not one damn bit afraid.
> *I'll let you all know if I turn into some strange alien life form with an extra head or the ability to leap tall buildings in a single bound.*
> Lol


I have 3 friends & 2 relatives who have now taken the vaccine.  

No superpowers yet.  

Maybe when they get the second shot?


----------



## pirate_girl

Melensdad said:


> I have 3 friends & 2 relatives who have now taken the vaccine.
> 
> No superpowers yet.
> 
> Maybe when they get the second shot?


NEXT Tuesday is V day for us.

I just watched President-elect Joe Biden receive his.


----------



## mla2ofus

pirate_girl said:


> NEXT Tuesday is V day for us.
> 
> I just watched President-elect Joe Biden receive his.


And any kind of reaction will be Trump's fault!!


----------



## pirate_girl

My friend Joni who works for Promedica just posted this on Facebook with the title " so what are YOU doing today?"


----------



## Melensdad

Interesting that she is getting the MODERNA vaccine instead of the PFIZER vax


----------



## pirate_girl

Melensdad said:


> Interesting that she is getting the MODERNA vaccine instead of the PFIZER vax


According to our county health commissioner, it's going to be Moderna for us.
?


----------



## Melensdad

I believe they are very similar, both using rDNA, both require 2 shots


----------



## pirate_girl

Melensdad said:


> I believe they are very similar, both using rDNA, both require 2 shots


Neither Joni or anyone she administered the vaccine to had any reactions.


----------



## Melensdad

pirate_girl said:


> Neither Joni or anyone she administered the vaccine to had any reactions.


Well give it time. Give it time.


----------



## jimbo

pirate_girl said:


> Neither Joni or anyone she administered the vaccine to had any reactions.


Yet


----------



## Melensdad

So now we have a newer & scarier Covid?  Being imported daily from South Africa, in addition to the new & scary Covid from England.

Full story at the link, but here is a bit to get your blood pressure up ==>  https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/...ant-covid-even-more-dangerous-uks-super-covid


South Africa's "Scary" Mutant COVID Is Even More Dangerous Than The UK's "Super COVID"​




BY TYLER DURDEN
THURSDAY, DEC 24, 2020 - 9:00
_Authored by Michael Snyder via The Economic Collapse blog,_
*A new mutant strain of COVID-19 that has been dubbed “501.V2” has gotten completely out of control in South Africa, and authorities are telling us that it is an even bigger threat than the “Super COVID” that has been causing so much panic in the United Kingdom. * Of course viruses mutate all the time, and so it isn’t a surprise that COVID-19 has been mutating.  But mutations can become a major issue when they fundamentally alter the way that a virus affects humans, and we are being told that “501.V2” is much more transmissible than previous versions of COVID and that *even young people are catching it a lot more easily.*  That is potentially a huge concern, because up until now young people have not been hit very hard by the COVID pandemic.



The British press is *using the word “scary”* to describe this new variant, and at this point it has become the overwhelmingly dominant strain in South Africa…




> The new mutant, called 501.V2, was announced in Cape Town last Friday and is believed to be a more extreme variant than Britain’s new Covid strain which has plunged millions into miserable Christmas lockdowns.
> Cases in South Africa have soared from fewer than 3,000 a day at the start of December to more than 9,500 per day, with the mutant accounting for up to 90 percent of those new infections.


*If this same pattern happens elsewhere as this new mutant strain travels around the globe, then “501.V2” could eventually almost entirely replace all of the older versions of COVID.*
Authorities are optimistically telling us that the recent vaccines that have been developed will “likely” work against this new variant, but the truth is that they will not know until testing is done.
And if the vaccines don’t work against “501.V2”, we could be back to square one very rapidly.
*For now, countries all over the globe are banning flights from South Africa in a desperate attempt to isolate this new version.  *The UK, Germany, Switzerland, Turkey and Israel are among the nations that have banned those flights, but so far the United States is not on that list.
*So people that are potentially carrying this new version of COVID continue to enter the U.S. on a daily basis....*​


----------



## Melensdad

NO good news from Dr Campbell.  The 2 new variations of Covid are going to cause massive problems.  UK and South Africa both are spreading new variations and both are much more contagious ... neither seem to be more lethal but if they spread faster they will create far more deaths.    Younger people affected.  Higher rates of hospitalizations.

Well worth 30 minutes of your time.  It is only a short matter of time before it hits North America hard.


----------



## pirate_girl

jimbo said:


> Yet


At all.?


----------



## Ceee

I may be totally wrong, but I just heard on the news this morning that the new strain of covid is about 99% the same as the original covid.  Some big shot from Pfizer said that they are pretty sure their vaccine will be just as effective on this new strain.


----------



## pirate_girl

Ceee said:


> I may be totally wrong, but I just heard on the news this morning that the new strain of covid is about 99% the same as the original covid.  Some big shot from Pfizer said that they are pretty sure their vaccine will be just as effective on this new strain.


I'm in a group on Facebook where different medical experts post.
I took a screenshot of this.


----------



## Doc

Hitting closer to home for me.   An uncle 82 passed away from Covid.  He lived in NC.   A friend is on his 7th day with it.   Daughter in laws dad was rushed to hospital last night with covid.  Said his oxygen level was at 70.       Scary shit.


----------



## Melensdad

Got to admit, there are days when I regret starting this thread.


----------



## Ceee

Melensdad said:


> Got to admit, there are days when I regret starting this thread.


I don't understand why you would say that.  This info is not always pretty, but I do think it's important for people to be aware of.  Sometimes I just want to stick my head in a hole and pretend it's not happening, but I don't think that's very smart and just can't go there.   Pretty or not, _I want to know._

Whether it's just your opinion or someone else's opinion, I still want to read it.


----------



## pirate_girl

Updated article December 24









						FAQ on: Allergy Concerns and the mRNA COVID-19 Vaccine
					

Allergic Living recaps what is known about allergy risks and precautions with the Pfizer and Moderna COVID-19 vaccines, answering some frequent questions.




					www.allergicliving.com


----------



## pirate_girl

Toooomorrow I go in and get tested.
Tuesday I'll be getting the vaccine.
Out of 80 plus employees only 11 of us are going to receive it as far as I know per the last email from our administrator.
Looks like a few are feeling a bit anxious.
I'm not.


----------



## Ceee

pirate_girl said:


> Toooomorrow I go in and get tested.
> Tuesday I'll be getting the vaccine.
> Out of 80 plus employees only 11 of us are going to receive it as far as I know per the last email from our administrator.
> Looks like a few are feeling a bit anxious.
> I'm not.


That's not a few.  

From your post #1387, I figured the administrators of the vaccine would be hawking those who receive the vaccine for a while afterward.  It sounds like they're going about all this in as safe a way as possible.


----------



## pirate_girl

Well I'm negative again.

Ceee, we just got fitted for proper fitting N95 masks too.
Had to try on the size I normally wear, then the rep from the company who came in put like a bee keepers hood over my head and sprayed a simple mist inside it and asked if I could smell or taste anything.
Nope, I've been wearing the proper size all along, even though my nose is a constant mess of redness.

I'll receive the vaccine tomorrow afternoon.
The numbers have risen for those signing to receive it. ?


----------



## Ceee

pirate_girl said:


> Well I'm negative again.
> 
> Ceee, we just got fitted for proper fitting N95 masks too.
> Had to try on the size I normally wear, then the rep from the company who came in put like a bee keepers hood over my head and sprayed a simple mist inside it and asked if I could smell or taste anything.
> Nope, I've been wearing the proper size all along, even though my nose is a constant mess of redness.
> 
> I'll receive the vaccine tomorrow afternoon.
> The numbers have risen for those signing to receive it. ?


I'm glad you're negative again.
This may be too nosy, so feel free not to answer.  What were some of the others' reasons for not wanting to get the vaccine?


----------



## pirate_girl

Ceee said:


> I'm glad you're negative again.
> This may be too nosy, so feel free not to answer.  What were some of the others' reasons for not wanting to get the vaccine?


A few of them said since they already had the virus, they have an immunity.
Others are just downright scared to death.
I expect by tomorrow afternoon many more will change their minds about the vaccine.
Even if they signed a declination form, that can be tossed and they can sign the full consent.
Our corporate head had the vaccine last week and is feeling a-ok.


----------



## Melensdad

Does getting the vaccine mean you can’t spread Covid?  WHO says they don’t have evidence.  I suspect the evidence doesn’t exist but it’s pretty obvious to me the WHO is going to use this as a political thing to keep us in masks for a long time.   Make us comply and we will slowly give up our freedoms.  Other vaccines prevent spread, if these actually work they they should do the same.  But WHO won’t admit that fact. 





__





						Zerohedge
					

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero




					www.zerohedge.com


----------



## EastTexFrank

The WHO is on my "Don't believe a word they say" list.  In this case I can see where they may possibly be right.  The vaccine may give a person personal immunity but doesn't prevent them carry it on their hands, for example, and transmitting it to someone else who doesn't have immunity.  Just one more reason to get vaccinated.


----------



## pirate_girl

I'll be getting my first dose today around 11am.


----------



## pirate_girl

Done!
Second dose January 26.
?


----------



## Melensdad

There are a group of scientists in the United Kingdom calling for a TIER 5 Lockdown of the country.  Currently the nation only has a 4 tier system. Much of the nation has been transitioned to TIER 4, which is their most stringent.  So the scientists are saying that with the new variant they need some sort of lockdown that is even more strict than the strictest lockdown they already have.




pirate_girl said:


> Done!
> Second dose January 26.
> ?


Yes, but do you have 2 heads, 3 eyes or glow in the dark?   If you have not checked yet, please go stand in a dark room.  Let us know the results!




Also in the news, from US NEWS & WORLD REPORT --> https://www.usnews.com/news/nationa...-million-coronavirus-vaccinations-in-december

Feds Likely to Miss Goal of 20 Million Coronavirus Vaccinations in December​The CDC reported that more than 2.1 million people had received their first dose of the vaccine as of Monday, though that number is likely to be an undercount.​




With only a couple days left in December, the Trump administration looks likely to fall short of its goal to vaccinate 20 million Americans by the end of the year.

As of Monday, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recorded *more than 2.1 million administered doses of vaccines. The agency said that 11.4 million total doses had been delivered to states.*

*The real number of administered doses is likely higher*, as officials report a lag time between giving the shot and its recording on the tracker. *Even so, the number is not likely to reach 20 million by Friday. *


----------



## Ceee

Melensdad said:


> There are a group of scientists in the United Kingdom calling for a TIER 5 Lockdown of the country.  Currently the nation only has a 4 tier system. Much of the nation has been transitioned to TIER 4, which is their most stringent.  So the scientists are saying that with the new variant they need some sort of lockdown that is even more strict than the strictest lockdown they already have.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, but do you have 2 heads, 3 eyes or glow in the dark?   If you have not checked yet, please go stand in a dark room.  Let us know the results!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also in the news, from US NEWS & WORLD REPORT --> https://www.usnews.com/news/nationa...-million-coronavirus-vaccinations-in-december
> 
> Feds Likely to Miss Goal of 20 Million Coronavirus Vaccinations in December​The CDC reported that more than 2.1 million people had received their first dose of the vaccine as of Monday, though that number is likely to be an undercount.​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With only a couple days left in December, the Trump administration looks likely to fall short of its goal to vaccinate 20 million Americans by the end of the year.
> 
> As of Monday, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recorded *more than 2.1 million administered doses of vaccines. The agency said that 11.4 million total doses had been delivered to states.*
> 
> *The real number of administered doses is likely higher*, as officials report a lag time between giving the shot and its recording on the tracker. *Even so, the number is not likely to reach 20 million by Friday. *


I don't even know yet what to think about what the WHO said. 

2.1 million vs 20 million is pretty much missing it.  Hopefully, they'll get it together.

I think we all need to maintain our sense of humor right now and agree that PG needs to go check for two heads and three eyes .

I don't understand why the UK is so cautious of this new variant.  The US doesn't seem to be.   I must be missing something.


----------



## pirate_girl

Worry not!
I'm still my normal, weird self.
?


----------



## Melensdad

pirate_girl said:


> Worry not!
> I'm still my normal, weird self.
> ?


Are you sure?  Did you stand in a dark room yet?


----------



## NorthernRedneck

We're now up to 16 covid deaths locally. 14 of those being in the same long term nursing home.


----------



## m1west

NorthernRedneck said:


> We're now up to 16 covid deaths locally. 14 of those being in the same long term nursing home.


Down here in the states 40% of all the COVID death is in Long term care facilities. Almost like old people and those with compromised immune systems get sick easier.


----------



## Lenny

pirate_girl said:


> Worry not!
> I'm still my normal, weird self.
> ?


Oh, good!  I hate normal people.


----------



## Melensdad

England’s new strain of Covid has been found in Colorado. 



*Gov. Polis revealed mutant COVID-19 strain from the UK was found in Colorado*
*Case was detected in a man in his 20s who is now 'in isolation in Elbert County'*
*He has no travel history, which reveals he caught it from someone in the US *
*The new variant of the coronavirus has been spreading rapidly in Britain*
*Mutation may be up to 70% more infectious and more of a concern for children*









						Colorado confirms it has detected first case of 'mutant COVID' strain
					

Colorado's governor Jared Polis has confirmed the first case of the COVID-19 variant B.1.1.7, which was first identified in the UK in November. The strain is more contagious but not necessarily more deadly.




					www.dailymail.co.uk
				





The strain - which is thought to be 70 per cent more infectious - was detected in a man in his 20s who is 'currently in isolation in Elbert County and has no travel history.' 

The fact the man has not traveled tells officials he caught the strain from someone else in the US. 

The news comes after millions of people traveled across the US to see loved-ones during the holidays.


----------



## Melensdad

*Full article at WASHINGTON EXAMINER link —> https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/bidens-grim-covid-19-speech-contrast-trump*​'Things will get worse before they get better': Biden's grim COVID-19 speech offers contrast with Trump​President-elect Joe Biden painted a grim picture of the coronavirus pandemic, saying the worst was yet to come.

Biden also chided his predecessor for the pace of COVID-19 vaccinations, setting up what figures to be months if not years of haggling over who will deserve the credit once the inoculations begin to deliver some sense of normalcy to the public.

"We need to be honest,” Biden said in remarks delivered from Wilmington, Delaware. “The next few weeks and months are going to be very tough, a very tough period for our nation, maybe the toughest during this entire pandemic. I know it's hard to hear, but it's the truth."

“So, we need to steel our spines for what’s ahead,” Biden added. “We need to follow even more closely the recommendations to slow the spread of the virus.”

The tone was a sharp contrast with President Trump, who was frequently criticized for offering happy talk about the pandemic. Trump regularly predicted that there was “light at the end of the tunnel,” that the country had put out the worst raging fires and need only contend with smoldering “embers.”




The COVID-19 restrictions in every state
Trump also prioritized economic reopening and pushed for a return to normal as early as Easter, but caseloads and deaths continued to climb. “I can see a return to normalcy in the next year,” Biden said, renewing his pledge to deliver 100 million vaccinations during his first 100 days in office.

Biden urged Trump to “clearly and unambiguously” promote both mask-wearing and the vaccine during his final weeks as president.


----------



## mla2ofus

What would Joe know about "Steeling our spines"?? He's like a willow in the wind!!


----------



## pirate_girl

Melensdad said:


> Are you sure?  Did you stand in a dark room yet?


Yes.. if you insist I can do that right now. Lol

Seriously, ALL of us- and there were many more than originally thought deciding yes..
None of us have had any negative reactions.
My arm is sore right now like it is from the flu vaccine.
This is a good thing.
I feel emotionally happy for doing it.
Physically fine.

Our boss lady had her picture taken for social media.
Lots of area facilities are doing this showing department heads getting the vaccine.


----------



## Melensdad

Can you tell that I was hoping you would glow in the dark?  

That would have made the National Enquirer!

My brother and my friend both said they had a sore arm for about a day.


----------



## pirate_girl

Lol Bob ?


----------



## Melensdad

So today I found out one of my friends, a dentist in England, who had Covid in March, has been showing late complications and can no longer work.  He works a day or 2 then spends 2 or 3 in bed.  Absolutely no stamina or energy.  He’s in his early 50’s. 

Also today, but just down the road from me, my friend’s mother in law died of Covid.  She was in the hospital with it for the past couple of weeks.  She was in her late 50’s.

Also today I found out my childhood friend’s mom is in the hospital with Covid.  She is 92, prognosis is not good.  He has not been allowed to see her for the past 6 months.


----------



## pirate_girl

The Oxford/AstraZeneca Covid vaccine has been approved for UK use - what you need to know
					

The Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine has officially been approved for use in the UK, with the first doses set to be administered on Monday 4 January.




					www.wakefieldexpress.co.uk


----------



## Melensdad

pirate_girl said:


> The Oxford/AstraZeneca Covid vaccine has been approved for UK use - what you need to know
> 
> 
> The Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine has officially been approved for use in the UK, with the first doses set to be administered on Monday 4 January.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wakefieldexpress.co.uk



PG what is most interesting about this vaccine is that the UK typically waits for the USA to approve a drug, then after we approve it, they typically will approve the drug.  The USA has not approved the Ox/AZ drug yet, but it appears that we are on the cusp of doing so. Given the fast spreading virus is taking over the UK, I think they panicked and jumped on it so they could be first in line for the doses.  They ordered enough of the Ox/AZ drug to vaccinate their entire population.



In other news, a 41 year old healthy Congressman-elect from Louisiana has died of Covid before he could ever take office.









						Louisiana Congressman-elect Luke Letlow dead from COVID-19
					

BATON ROUGE, La. (AP) — Luke Letlow, Louisiana's incoming Republican member of the U.S. House, died Tuesday night from complications related to COVID-19 only days before he would have been sworn into office...




					apnews.com


----------



## Melensdad

Dr John Campbell from England. I've quoted and referred to him many times in this thread.  Good news for the UK,  Probably coming to the US, Canada, and the world very soon.  Cost = 3 Euro, about US$4

Easy to mass produce.
Cheap to make.
Easy to transport and distribute in normal medical supply chains.

About 25 minutes of video and worth watching.


----------



## Ceee

Melensdad said:


> Dr John Campbell from England. I've quoted and referred to him many times in this thread.  Good news for the UK,  Probably coming to the US, Canada, and the world very soon.  Cost = 3 Euro, about US$4
> 
> Easy to mass produce.
> Cheap to make.
> Easy to transport and distribute in normal medical supply chains.
> 
> About 25 minutes of video and worth watching.


Yes, *this is worth watching for everyone, even those of us in the US*, and I encourage everyone to watch from start to finish.
I have to admit that I only watched a portion of his previous videos because all of the bracketing, underlining, checking made me kind of of lose interest but this one I watched beginning to end.
Everybody gets to make up his own mind, but I found his info very promising.


----------



## pirate_girl

Melensdad said:


> Dr John Campbell from England. I've quoted and referred to him many times in this thread.  Good news for the UK,  Probably coming to the US, Canada, and the world very soon.  Cost = 3 Euro, about US$4
> 
> Easy to mass produce.
> Cheap to make.
> Easy to transport and distribute in normal medical supply chains.
> 
> About 25 minutes of video and worth watching.


Bob I've got Dr. Campbell's videos bookmarked.
This is fantastic!


----------



## pirate_girl

And some sad news out of Hollywood.










						Dawn Wells, Mary Ann on ‘Gilligan’s Island,’ Dies at 82
					

Dawn Wells, the girl-next-door actress and former beauty queen who played the sweet Mary Ann Summers on the iconic CBS sitcom ‘Gilligan’s Island,’ has died. She was 82.




					www.hollywoodreporter.com
				



?
Dawn Wells, the girl-next-door actress and former beauty queen who played the sweet Mary Ann Summers on the iconic CBS sitcom _Gilligan's Island_, died Wednesday morning. She was 82.

Wells died in Los Angeles of causes related to COVID-19, her publicist announced.


----------



## Melensdad

PG this is for you _(nothing to do with glowing in the dark)_

*About 60% of nursing home staff have so far elected not to take the vaccine, DeWine said*.









						DeWine says 60% of nursing home workers not electing to get vaccine
					

DeWine said during his final scheduled briefing of 2020 that he wanted to instill a “sense of urgency” among those who are eligible for the vaccine.



					www.cincinnati.com


----------



## pirate_girl

Yes, I have read that.
It's beyond my comprehension why such a large percentage of long term care workers would refuse getting vaccinated.
Fortunately, we ended up having a very good turn out.

The deaths are just awful, in what he says about December being the deadliest.. well perhaps in other counties but not around here. I feel very fortunate that at this moment we have NO active covid cases at our facility.


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> PG what is most interesting about this vaccine is that the UK typically waits for the USA to approve a drug, then after we approve it, they typically will approve the drug.  The USA has not approved the Ox/AZ drug yet, but it appears that we are on the cusp of doing so. Given the fast spreading virus is taking over the UK, I think they panicked and jumped on it so they could be first in line for the doses.  They ordered enough of the Ox/AZ drug to vaccinate their entire population.
> 
> 
> 
> In other news, a 41 year old healthy Congressman-elect from Louisiana has died of Covid before he could ever take office.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Louisiana Congressman-elect Luke Letlow dead from COVID-19
> 
> 
> BATON ROUGE, La. (AP) — Luke Letlow, Louisiana's incoming Republican member of the U.S. House, died Tuesday night from complications related to COVID-19 only days before he would have been sworn into office...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> apnews.com


Fake news alert, News Max just reported that he was in the hospital for a scheduled operation and had a heart attack during the operation and died. The story sited the Washington post.


----------



## Backyardski

m1west said:


> Fake news alert, News Max just reported that he was in the hospital for a scheduled operation and had a heart attack during the operation and died. The story sited the Washington post.


Hearsay alert. Link newsmax story and wapo story they cited..
Hard to believe retelling of fake newsmax retelling of story based on their record?


----------



## mla2ofus

m1west said:


> Fake news alert, News Max just reported that he was in the hospital for a scheduled operation and had a heart attack during the operation and died. The story sited the Washington post.


  Just read the article and all the hospital spokesman said he underwent a "procedure" for covid 19. Didn't say just what the procedure was and he suffered a heart attack after the procedure. I smell something weird!!


----------



## mla2ofus

Backyardski said:


> Hearsay alert. Link newsmax story and wapo story they cited..
> Hard to believe retelling of fake newsmax retelling of story based on their record?


And I'm sure you believe everything CNN reports!! If you want to heat this up then let's move over to the political forum. We don't need this BS here in this forum.


----------



## Backyardski

I don’t do cnn.
I think it should be sited if that’s a legit claim is all. I think most have accepted Covid is real at this point. If he didn’t have Covid and died also a accuracy problem and news shouldn’t be spreading g speculation and or lies.

sorry for hoping in


----------



## pirate_girl

REST IN PEACE CONGRESSMAN LETLOW!!!!!!


----------



## Melensdad

Backyardski said:


> I don’t do cnn.


Dotto

I also don’t do Newsmax or FOX

I will do Breitbart, it’s outrageous, bias and funny, but typically accurate. I also do Politico.

I quoted the Associated Press.

I stand by the story.  It may not be complete.  But it seems accurate and politically neutral.


----------



## Backyardski

I’ll try to redeem my previous snarky comment with an appropriate post  by saying:

I’ve talked to two people who have had the first dose of the moderna vaccine, no side effects for either. My nephew is working as an ED tech  and said just a little muscle soreness but no worse than a flu shot. My wife’s friend, a Covid unit nurse said no soreness even. My sister got her eligibility email and my wife should be up soon. They are excited to get it.

Also, no offense intended Marty! Just some guy one time said “trust, but verify”


----------



## Melensdad

And now we see the COLD WAR heating up between Russia & the Western Nations.  





__





						Zerohedge
					

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero




					www.zerohedge.com
				






Russia Developing "Highly Efficient Antidote" To Fight COVID, Preclinical Tests Show 99% Effectiveness​Russia is using its vaccine program for soft power diplomacy. On Tuesday, Argentina and Belarus became the first two countries to begin coronavirus vaccinations via the Sputnik V vaccine. 

Building on the Sputnik V vaccine's momentum, Russia is now claiming it has successfully developed the world's first "antidote" to COVID-19.  





According to RT News, Russia's Federal Medical and Biological Agency (FMBA) announced this week that an experimental drug to combat the virus is the world's first direct-acting antiviral antidote if clinical trials are successful. 

FMBA head Veronika Skvortsova has claimed that the experimental antidote is more than 99% effective. 



> _"This is the first etiotropic drug that directly affects the virus. In fact, this is an antidote for coronavirus infection," she told Prime Minister Mikhail Mishustin on Wednesday, adding that researchers have concluded preclinical studies that already shown the remedy is "completely safe" and "highly efficient."_


Skvortsova told Mishustin that the FMBA is applying for approval to conduct additional testing in the near term. 



> _"If clinical trials confirm the effectiveness of this drug, it will be the first safe, effective, direct-acting antiviral drug that has no analogs in the world,"_ she explained.


The Russian Ministry of Health approved the anti-influenza drug Avifavir for reducing patient recovery times back in May. 

If effective, the antidote combined with the Sputnik V vaccine could push Russia ahead in the vaccine race among global superpowers. 

Meanwhile, Pfizer published a statement that said there is "no data" to show that a single dose of Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine will protect from infection after 21 days, according to Axios.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

Meanwhile in Canada on the covid 19 front...









						City, Toronto Police vowing crackdown on illegal hockey, tobogganing
					

The City of Toronto is taking a harder stand against residents who illegally use city ice rinks.




					torontosun.com


----------



## Ceee

Melensdad said:


> And now we see the COLD WAR heating up between Russia & the Western Nations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zerohedge
> 
> 
> ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.zerohedge.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia Developing "Highly Efficient Antidote" To Fight COVID, Preclinical Tests Show 99% Effectiveness​Russia is using its vaccine program for soft power diplomacy. On Tuesday, Argentina and Belarus became the first two countries to begin coronavirus vaccinations via the Sputnik V vaccine.
> 
> Building on the Sputnik V vaccine's momentum, Russia is now claiming it has successfully developed the world's first "antidote" to COVID-19.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to RT News, Russia's Federal Medical and Biological Agency (FMBA) announced this week that an experimental drug to combat the virus is the world's first direct-acting antiviral antidote if clinical trials are successful.
> 
> FMBA head Veronika Skvortsova has claimed that the experimental antidote is more than 99% effective.
> 
> 
> Skvortsova told Mishustin that the FMBA is applying for approval to conduct additional testing in the near term.
> 
> 
> The Russian Ministry of Health approved the anti-influenza drug Avifavir for reducing patient recovery times back in May.
> 
> If effective, the antidote combined with the Sputnik V vaccine could push Russia ahead in the vaccine race among global superpowers.
> 
> Meanwhile, Pfizer published a statement that said there is "no data" to show that a single dose of Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine will protect from infection after 21 days, according to Axios.


"Meanwhile, Pfizer published a statement that said there is "no data" to show that a single dose of Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine will protect from infection after 21 days, according to Axios"

Good grief!  I don't always like your news, but you sure put out some very informative info.
Thanks


----------



## Ceee

pirate_girl said:


> Yes, I have read that.
> It's beyond my comprehension why such a large percentage of long term care workers would refuse getting vaccinated.
> Fortunately, we ended up having a very good turn out.
> 
> The deaths are just awful, in what he says about December being the deadliest.. well perhaps in other counties but not around here. I feel very fortunate that at this moment we have NO active covid cases at our facility.


Of course, I don't know this for sure, but I suspect some of those who refused the vaccine are young women who haven't started their families yet but plan to very shortly.  Maybe all that talk about the sterility stuff scared them.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

Another 2 deaths in the same nursing home today.


----------



## EastTexFrank

Ceee said:


> Of course, I don't know this for sure, but I suspect some of those who refused the vaccine are young women who haven't started their families yet but plan to very shortly.  Maybe all that talk about the sterility stuff scared them.



Or perhaps they have already had it and figure they are already immune.


----------



## Ceee

EastTexFrank said:


> Or perhaps they have already had it and figure they are already immune.


That may be what they're thinking.  I'm not sure that's accurate though.  

From CDC:  "In general, reinfection means a person was infected (got sick) once, recovered, and then later became infected again. Based on what we know from similar viruses, some reinfections are expected. We are still learning more about COVID-19. Ongoing COVID-19 studies will help us understand:"


----------



## Melensdad

OK something is really pissing me off about our US and UK media sources.

In early December, I believe it was Dec 3, one of our US health officials said he hoped that 20 Million US citizens would be vaccinated by the end of the year* (today)*.  At that time, there were ZERO vaccines approved at that time.  The official was HOPING for 20 Million.  Not promising 20 million.  *I looked it up,* he basically said that *IF* things all fall into place, then we might be able to get to 20 Million vaccinations. * IF* things fall into place.  *IF.*

The media, both the US and the UK media, are now BITCHING and COMPLAINING that the US missed its target of 20 Million.  *That the US is failing.*  That its basically the fault of the Trump administration.

You folks know I am CRITICAL of Trump but let's put this into context.  This is the same media that said it would take 3 years to get a vaccine.  This is the same media that did NOT give Trump credit for the "Operation Warp Speed" funding and organizing of the vaccine research.  This is the same media who is probably going to give Biden credit for what Trump did.  I don't like a lot fo what Trump did, but damn, he deserves credit for getting this vaccine done.

We know that, prior to Christmas, we had about 2 Million people get vaccine shots.  We don't know how many were vaccinated this week, that data was not published, but we can assume at least 1 or 2 more people were vaccinated* ... probably hundreds of thousands.* But the media is still publishing *"about 2.1 Million*" and still bitching that we* "missed the projections"* and are *"failing"* etc etc etc

At some point, all this crap has to stop.  I suspect that it will stop the day Biden takes office.  Then I suspect Biden will get all the credit for sunshine, blue skies and vaccinations.


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> OK something is really pissing me off about our US and UK media sources.
> 
> In early December, I believe it was Dec 3, one of our US health officials said he hoped that 20 Million US citizens would be vaccinated by the end of the year* (today)*.  At that time, there were ZERO vaccines approved at that time.  The official was HOPING for 20 Million.  Not promising 20 million.  *I looked it up,* he basically said that *IF* things all fall into place, then we might be able to get to 20 Million vaccinations. * IF* things fall into place.  *IF.*
> 
> The media, both the US and the UK media, are now BITCHING and COMPLAINING that the US missed its target of 20 Million.  *That the US is failing.*  That its basically the fault of the Trump administration.
> 
> You folks know I am CRITICAL of Trump but let's put this into context.  This is the same media that said it would take 3 years to get a vaccine.  This is the same media that did NOT give Trump credit for the "Operation Warp Speed" funding and organizing of the vaccine research.  This is the same media who is probably going to give Biden credit for what Trump did.  I don't like a lot fo what Trump did, but damn, he deserves credit for getting this vaccine done.
> 
> We know that, prior to Christmas, we had about 2 Million people get vaccine shots.  We don't know how many were vaccinated this week, that data was not published, but we can assume at least 1 or 2 more people were vaccinated* ... probably hundreds of thousands.* But the media is still publishing *"about 2.1 Million*" and still bitching that we* "missed the projections"* and are *"failing"* etc etc etc
> 
> At some point, all this crap has to stop.  I suspect that it will stop the day Biden takes office.  Then I suspect Biden will get all the credit for sunshine, blue skies and vaccinations.


Well said and 100% correct


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

I think this thread could use a little more skepticism ....


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1344628047266410499
Locally our hospitals are at about the same capacity as normal for this time of year.


----------



## Melensdad

PBinWA said:


> I think this thread could use a little more skepticism ....
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1344628047266410499
> Locally our hospitals are at about the same capacity as normal for this time of year.


So are our hospitals.  Chicago got jammed up in the early stages of Covid but NW Indiana never ran out of beds.  They built a huge temporary hospital in Chicago that was basically unused.

We are still in good shape. Statewide we are good but there are a couple areas that temporarily were close to full.

LosAngeles is apparently in trouble and out of beds.


----------



## pirate_girl

Ceee said:


> Of course, I don't know this for sure, but I suspect some of those who refused the vaccine are young women who haven't started their families yet but plan to very shortly.  Maybe all that talk about the sterility stuff scared them.


No, the reason given for not getting vaccinated was pretty much echoed by all of those.
"It was developed too fast, we aren't at all sure what's really in it or enough about possible side effects."

All of our residents received the vaccine.
Not one of them have had any reactions except for sore arms.


----------



## norscaner

I found this interesting for Canadians or others travelling to Canada.   https://www.tbnewswatch.com/local-n...gative-covid-19-test-to-fly-to-canada-3227597


----------



## Melensdad

norscaner said:


> I found this interesting for Canadians or others travelling to Canada.   https://www.tbnewswatch.com/local-n...gative-covid-19-test-to-fly-to-canada-3227597


When my Russian fencer flew to Boston, she had to have a Negative Covid test or they would not let her out of quarantine at the airport.  When she then continued onto Kiev, Ukraine, she had to have another Negative Covid test before getting on the plane.  It was not an airline thing.  It was a destination requirement.  

So Canada adopting something like this is logical.  Here in the US, our airlines are allowing VISIBLY SICK people onto airplanes.  SOME cities are enforcing Covid tests.  Most are not.  Some have requirements but don't actually do anything.  So we have a very patchwork set of rules.









						Coughing, sneezing, vomiting: Visibly ill people aren't being kept off planes
					

The COVID-19 death of an airline passenger, and pilots' and flight attendants' complaints about other incidents, illustrate deficiencies in the systems meant to stop people from bringing the coronavirus on flights.




					news.yahoo.com


----------



## bczoom

Our airport is offering covid testing at the airport itself.
They have the 15 minute result version as well as the 3-4 day result version.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Melensdad said:


> LosAngeles is apparently in trouble and out of beds.


As I understand it this is only true for the publicly run hospitals.  I suspect those hospitals are always "in trouble and out of beds" depending on which way the political winds are blowing.


----------



## Melensdad

Thought this was interesting.  We talk about the people who die.  We talk about the minor symptoms and people who recover.  We talk about the asymptomatic.  Rarely do we talk about the people who recover partially but never actually recover.  




It all started with a bad hair day.
On the morning of April 11, Amy Watson, a preschool teacher in Portland, Ore., went to get tested for Covid-19 at a drive-up site after suffering a chronic fever. She hadn’t washed her hair, so she threw on a trucker hat with a picture of a squirrel on it, snapping a selfie to share on social media.


Two days later, her test came back positive. Later that month, after connecting with others who had contracted Covid and were still experiencing a range of chronic symptoms, she decided to set up a support group on Facebook. “I was sitting in my living room, and that hat I wore in the picture was on the coffee table,” Ms. Watson told me. The trucker hat got her thinking of long-haul trucking, inspiring her to name the Facebook group “Long Haul Covid Fighters.”




Amy Watson in the hat, and photo, that started it all.​PHOTO: COURTESY AMY WATSON

As the group kept growing, members began calling each other “long-haulers.” People gravitated toward the term, Ms. Watson recalls, because “it was validating as a group of patients to have a name given to what we were experiencing.”
Full story at link - https://www.wsj.com/articles/long-hauler-when-covid-19s-symptoms-last-and-last-11609524809​Early on in the pandemic, medical professionals didn’t know what to make of the symptomatology of these Covid survivors and had no name for it. But by early June, the expression “long-haulers” started getting picked up in the media, beginning with an article by Ed Yong for The Atlantic, and the medical community soon took notice.​In a congressional hearing in September, Dr. Anthony Faucireported on patients who, weeks and months after recovering from Covid-19, were suffering from such debilitating symptoms as fatigue, myalgia, fever and an inability to concentrate. “They’re referred to as ‘long-haulers,’” Dr. Fauci said, giving his imprimatur to the term.
‘Even if it’s not necessarily the most scientific term, you get the gist right away.’
Now the stories of “long-haulers” have become a central component of how scientists, doctors and policymakers view long-term effects of the coronavirus. As a current article in the journal Social Science & Medicine explains, researchers are scrambling to keep up with what patients report in online support groups such as Ms. Watson’s. Co-author Elisa Perego, a research associate at University College London, is a long-hauler herself, and dubbed the post-viral condition “long Covid” on Twitter in May. Both “long-haulers” and “long Covid” are fast becoming standard terminology in the medical field.​


----------



## pirate_girl

Melensdad said:


> Thought this was interesting.  We talk about the people who die.  We talk about the minor symptoms and people who recover.  We talk about the asymptomatic.  Rarely do we talk about the people who recover partially but never actually recover.
> 
> 
> ​​It all started with a bad hair day.​On the morning of April 11, Amy Watson, a preschool teacher in Portland, Ore., went to get tested for Covid-19 at a drive-up site after suffering a chronic fever. She hadn’t washed her hair, so she threw on a trucker hat with a picture of a squirrel on it, snapping a selfie to share on social media.​​​Two days later, her test came back positive. Later that month, after connecting with others who had contracted Covid and were still experiencing a range of chronic symptoms, she decided to set up a support group on Facebook. “I was sitting in my living room, and that hat I wore in the picture was on the coffee table,” Ms. Watson told me. The trucker hat got her thinking of long-haul trucking, inspiring her to name the Facebook group “Long Haul Covid Fighters.”​
> 
> ​Amy Watson in the hat, and photo, that started it all.​
> PHOTO: COURTESY AMY WATSON​​As the group kept growing, members began calling each other “long-haulers.” People gravitated toward the term, Ms. Watson recalls, because “it was validating as a group of patients to have a name given to what we were experiencing.”​​Full story at link - https://www.wsj.com/articles/long-hauler-when-covid-19s-symptoms-last-and-last-11609524809​
> ​Early on in the pandemic, medical professionals didn’t know what to make of the symptomatology of these Covid survivors and had no name for it. But by early June, the expression “long-haulers” started getting picked up in the media, beginning with an article by Ed Yong for The Atlantic, and the medical community soon took notice.​
> In a congressional hearing in September, Dr. Anthony Faucireported on patients who, weeks and months after recovering from Covid-19, were suffering from such debilitating symptoms as fatigue, myalgia, fever and an inability to concentrate. “They’re referred to as ‘long-haulers,’” Dr. Fauci said, giving his imprimatur to the term.​‘Even if it’s not necessarily the most scientific term, you get the gist right away.’​Now the stories of “long-haulers” have become a central component of how scientists, doctors and policymakers view long-term effects of the coronavirus. As a current article in the journal Social Science & Medicine explains, researchers are scrambling to keep up with what patients report in online support groups such as Ms. Watson’s. Co-author Elisa Perego, a research associate at University College London, is a long-hauler herself, and dubbed the post-viral condition “long Covid” on Twitter in May. Both “long-haulers” and “long Covid” are fast becoming standard terminology in the medical field.​​


Bob, yes.
Of our several recovered? residents who managed to get through our first round alive, many .. but not all of them have lasting effects.
People who were once very independent, now are minimal assist to even needing the use of a mechanical lift for transfers.
Then there is what we refer to as covid brain.
Every single thing about it is heartbreaking.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Melensdad said:


> Thought this was interesting.  We talk about the people who die.  We talk about the minor symptoms and people who recover.  We talk about the asymptomatic.  Rarely do we talk about the people who recover partially but never actually recover.
> 
> 
> ​​It all started with a bad hair day.​On the morning of April 11, Amy Watson, a preschool teacher in Portland, Ore., went to get tested for Covid-19 at a drive-up site after suffering a chronic fever. She hadn’t washed her hair, so she threw on a trucker hat with a picture of a squirrel on it, snapping a selfie to share on social media.​​​Two days later, her test came back positive. Later that month, after connecting with others who had contracted Covid and were still experiencing a range of chronic symptoms, she decided to set up a support group on Facebook. “I was sitting in my living room, and that hat I wore in the picture was on the coffee table,” Ms. Watson told me. The trucker hat got her thinking of long-haul trucking, inspiring her to name the Facebook group “Long Haul Covid Fighters.”​
> 
> ​Amy Watson in the hat, and photo, that started it all.​
> PHOTO: COURTESY AMY WATSON​​As the group kept growing, members began calling each other “long-haulers.” People gravitated toward the term, Ms. Watson recalls, because “it was validating as a group of patients to have a name given to what we were experiencing.”​​Full story at link - https://www.wsj.com/articles/long-hauler-when-covid-19s-symptoms-last-and-last-11609524809​
> ​Early on in the pandemic, medical professionals didn’t know what to make of the symptomatology of these Covid survivors and had no name for it. But by early June, the expression “long-haulers” started getting picked up in the media, beginning with an article by Ed Yong for The Atlantic, and the medical community soon took notice.​
> In a congressional hearing in September, Dr. Anthony Faucireported on patients who, weeks and months after recovering from Covid-19, were suffering from such debilitating symptoms as fatigue, myalgia, fever and an inability to concentrate. “They’re referred to as ‘long-haulers,’” Dr. Fauci said, giving his imprimatur to the term.​‘Even if it’s not necessarily the most scientific term, you get the gist right away.’​Now the stories of “long-haulers” have become a central component of how scientists, doctors and policymakers view long-term effects of the coronavirus. As a current article in the journal Social Science & Medicine explains, researchers are scrambling to keep up with what patients report in online support groups such as Ms. Watson’s. Co-author Elisa Perego, a research associate at University College London, is a long-hauler herself, and dubbed the post-viral condition “long Covid” on Twitter in May. Both “long-haulers” and “long Covid” are fast becoming standard terminology in the medical field.​​


I wouldn't trust anything coming out of Portland, Oregon via the WSJ.  Especially a school teacher.  Pure agenda driven journalism at it's worst.

We also need to be realistic about people in long term care facilities, the flu, pneumonia, covid, or any other easily transmissible disease will likely have some long term implications on this population.  Some will do fine, some won't, and some will die.  We can't feed the hysteria based on this population - it just doesn't make sense.


----------



## Melensdad

PBinWA said:


> I wouldn't trust anything coming out of Portland, Oregon via the WSJ.  Especially a school teacher.  Pure agenda driven journalism at it's worst.
> 
> We also need to be realistic about people in long term care facilities, the flu, pneumonia, covid, or any other easily transmissible disease will likely have some long term implications on this population.  Some will do fine, some won't, and some will die.  We can't feed the hysteria based on this population - it just doesn't make sense.


I posted this because I have a good friend.  A Dentist.  Mid-50's.  Got Covid in March of 20.  Fairly mild case.  Never needed to stay in the hospital.  Had a fever, chest congestion, aches.  Said it felt like a very bad case of the seasonal flu.  Lasted about 10 days.

Fast forward to January 2, 2021 and he is technically "recovered" from Covid.  Tests negative.

He has ZERO stamina.

His ability to work 2 days in a row is virtually nonexistent.  If he works 2 days he spends 3 days in bed.  

Realistically he is facing early retirement and being forced out of his 1/2 of his dental practice by his partner because he can't support the costs of carrying his half of the dental practice.

So while you keep _'not trusting_' and injecting your skepticism without backing it up with facts, I have a close family friend who is suffering.  He is not elderly.  He did not have underlying conditions.  He was healthy and vibrant the last time I had dinner at his home.  He was active, in good physical shape, not a pound of extra fat on him, ate a good/healthy diet (vegetarian).

His experience with long term complications matches the OHIO STATE study of elite athletes that I had previously posted.  Approximately 10% of the people who get Covid developed some long term, life altering, complications.  What PirateGirl has described inside her nursing home is also similar to what this article describes and what my friend is going through.  Feel free not to trust a school teacher.  But don't dismiss facts.


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> I posted this because I have a good friend.  A Dentist.  Mid-50's.  Got Covid in March of 20.  Fairly mild case.  Never needed to stay in the hospital.  Had a fever, chest congestion, aches.  Said it felt like a very bad case of the seasonal flu.  Lasted about 10 days.
> 
> Fast forward to January 2, 2021 and he is technically "recovered" from Covid.  Tests negative.
> 
> He has ZERO stamina.
> 
> His ability to work 2 days in a row is virtually nonexistent.  If he works 2 days he spends 3 days in bed.
> 
> Realistically he is facing early retirement and being forced out of his 1/2 of his dental practice by his partner because he can't support the costs of carrying his half of the dental practice.
> 
> So while you keep _'not trusting_' and injecting your skepticism without backing it up with facts, I have a close family friend who is suffering.  He is not elderly.  He did not have underlying conditions.  He was healthy and vibrant the last time I had dinner at his home.  He was active, in good physical shape, not a pound of extra fat on him, ate a good/healthy diet (vegetarian).
> 
> His experience with long term complications matches the OHIO STATE study of elite athletes that I had previously posted.  Approximately 10% of the people who get Covid developed some long term, life altering, complications.  What PirateGirl has described inside her nursing home is also similar to what this article describes and what my friend is going through.  Feel free not to trust a school teacher.  But don't dismiss facts.


Not trying to be a smartass but you mentioned your friend is a vegetarian, The symptoms align with Anemia??


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> Not trying to be a smartass but you mentioned your friend is a vegetarian, The symptoms align with Anemia??


He and his family are all Hindu, all health buffs, they have been life long vegetarians and very careful with their diets to make sure they have the correct balance.  He is a dentist, his wife is a doctor, they know all about anemia and other things like that.

Covid is known, in a modest number of cases, to have a long term side effect of causing a thickening of the heart walls as well as some serious respiratory complications.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Melensdad said:


> I posted this because I have a good friend.  A Dentist.  Mid-50's.  Got Covid in March of 20.  Fairly mild case.  Never needed to stay in the hospital.  Had a fever, chest congestion, aches.  Said it felt like a very bad case of the seasonal flu.  Lasted about 10 days.
> 
> Fast forward to January 2, 2021 and he is technically "recovered" from Covid.  Tests negative.
> 
> He has ZERO stamina.
> 
> His ability to work 2 days in a row is virtually nonexistent.  If he works 2 days he spends 3 days in bed.
> 
> Realistically he is facing early retirement and being forced out of his 1/2 of his dental practice by his partner because he can't support the costs of carrying his half of the dental practice.
> 
> So while you keep _'not trusting_' and injecting your skepticism without backing it up with facts, I have a close family friend who is suffering.  He is not elderly.  He did not have underlying conditions.  He was healthy and vibrant the last time I had dinner at his home.  He was active, in good physical shape, not a pound of extra fat on him, ate a good/healthy diet (vegetarian).
> 
> His experience with long term complications matches the OHIO STATE study of elite athletes that I had previously posted.  Approximately 10% of the people who get Covid developed some long term, life altering, complications.  What PirateGirl has described inside her nursing home is also similar to what this article describes and what my friend is going through.  Feel free not to trust a school teacher.  But don't dismiss facts.


You are posting anecdotal evidence as "facts".  While your friend may be having issues this is not necessarily statistically relevant.

My dad died the day after getting a root canal, he was otherwise healthy for an 80 year old (actually healthier than most 80 year olds). I don't run around telling people to not get root canals.


----------



## Melensdad

PBinWA said:


> You are posting anecdotal evidence as "facts".  While your friend may be having issues this is not necessarily statistically relevant.


This evidence, combined with first hand evidence posted by Pirate Girl, matches the medical evidence and university studies that were posted earlier in this this thread about people who get covid but do not fully recover.  If you recall the studies, both indicated that roughly 33% of the athletes might never recover fully after getting complications from Covid.  That 33% was later amended by the authors of the studies to approximately 10%.  Other evidence and other studies seems to corroborate these studies as facts.


More info about the long term complications, this from the Mayo Clinic.

LINK-->  https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases...th/coronavirus-long-term-effects/art-20490351

​*COVID-19 (coronavirus): Long-term effects*
COVID-19 symptoms can sometimes persist for months. The virus can damage the lungs, heart and brain, which increases the risk of long-term health problems.
By Mayo Clinic Staff

Most people who have coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) recover completely within a few weeks. But some people — even those who had mild versions of the disease — continue to experience symptoms after their initial recovery.
These people sometimes describe themselves as "long haulers" and the condition has been called post-COVID-19 syndrome or "long COVID-19."

Older people and people with many serious medical conditions are the most likely to experience lingering COVID-19 symptoms, but even young, otherwise healthy people can feel unwell for weeks to months after infection. The most common signs and symptoms that linger over time include:

Fatigue
Shortness of breath
Cough
Joint pain
Chest pain
Other long-term signs and symptoms may include:

Muscle pain or headache
Fast or pounding heartbeat
Loss of smell or taste
Memory, concentration or sleep problems
Rash or hair loss

Video: Long-term symptoms, complications of COVID-19​Organ damage caused by COVID-19​
Although COVID-19 is seen as a disease that primarily affects the lungs, it can damage many other organs as well. This organ damage may increase the risk of long-term health problems. Organs that may be affected by COVID-19 include:


*Heart.* Imaging tests taken months after recovery from COVID-19 have shown lasting damage to the heart muscle, even in people who experienced only mild COVID-19symptoms. This may increase the risk of heart failure or other heart complications in the future.
*Lungs.* The type of pneumonia often associated with COVID-19 can cause long-standing damage to the tiny air sacs (alveoli) in the lungs. The resulting scar tissue can lead to long-term breathing problems.
*Brain.* Even in young people, COVID-19 can cause strokes, seizures and Guillain-Barre syndrome — a condition that causes temporary paralysis. COVID-19 may also increase the risk of developing Parkinson's disease and Alzheimer's disease.
Blood clots and blood vessel problems​
COVID-19 can make blood cells more likely to clump up and form clots. While large clots can cause heart attacks and strokes, much of the heart damage caused by COVID-19 is believed to stem from very small clots that block tiny blood vessels (capillaries) in the heart muscle.

Other parts of the body affected by blood clots include the lungs, legs, liver and kidneys. COVID-19 can also weaken blood vessels and cause them to leak, which contributes to potentially long-lasting problems with the liver and kidneys.
Problems with mood and fatigue​
People who have severe symptoms of COVID-19 often have to be treated in a hospital's intensive care unit, with mechanical assistance such as ventilators to breathe. Simply surviving this experience can make a person more likely to later develop post-traumatic stress syndrome, depression and anxiety.

Because it's difficult to predict long-term outcomes from the new COVID-19 virus, scientists are looking at the long-term effects seen in related viruses, such as the virus that causes severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS).
Many people who have recovered from SARS have gone on to develop chronic fatigue syndrome, a complex disorder characterized by extreme fatigue that worsens with physical or mental activity, but doesn't improve with rest. The same may be true for people who have had COVID-19.
Many long-term COVID-19 effects still unknown​
Much is still unknown about how COVID-19 will affect people over time. However, researchers recommend that doctors closely monitor people who have had COVID-19 to see how their organs are functioning after recovery.

Many large medical centers are opening specialized clinics to provide care for people who have persistent symptoms or related illnesses after they recover from COVID-19.
It's important to remember that most people who have COVID-19recover quickly. But the potentially long-lasting problems from COVID-19 make it even more important to reduce the spread of the disease by following precautions such as wearing masks, avoiding crowds and keeping hands clean.​


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## Melensdad

PG mentioned that some of the residents in her care home have, what they are referring to, as "covid brain" and there is a long term issue that does affect the brain.   It is mostly common in older individuals but can strike any age.  Still its most commonly prevalent in those over 70. 

This from Harvard Medical, full story is at the link --> https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/the-hidden-long-term-cognitive-effects-of-covid-2020100821133

​​The hidden long-term cognitive effects of COVID-19​
Andrew E. Budson, MDPosted October 08, 2020, 2:30 pm​The COVID pandemic has now claimed as many American lives as World War I, the Vietnam War, and the Korean War combined. Most of these deaths are due to the well-known pulmonary complications of the coronavirus. It has become increasingly recognized, however, that the virus also attacks the nervous system. Doctors in a large Chicago medical center found that more than 40% of patients with COVIDshowed neurologic manifestations at the outset, and more than 30% of those had impaired cognition. Sometimes the neurological manifestations can be devastating and can even lead to death.​​However, new research is now suggesting that there may be long-term neurologic consequences in those who survive COVID infections, including more than seven million Americans and another 27 million people worldwide. Particularly troubling is increasing evidence that there may be mild — but very real — brain damage that occurs in many survivors, causing pervasive yet subtle cognitive, behavioral, and psychological problems.​​​How COVID damages the brain​
COVID can cause damage to the brain directly by encephalitis, which may have devastating or subtle consequences. In one British study of 12 patients with encephalitis, one made a full recovery, 10 made a partial recovery, and one died. This study also found that a number of patients with COVID suffered strokes. In fact, COVID infection is a risk factor for strokes. A group of Canadian doctors found that individuals over 70 years of age were at particularly high risk for stroke related to COVID infection, but even young individuals are seven times more likely to have a stroke from this coronavirus versus a typical flu virus.​​Autopsy data from COVID patients in Finland suggests that another major cause of brain damage is lack of oxygen. Particularly worrisome is that several of the patients who were autopsied did not show any signs of brain injury during the course of their COVID infection — yet all had brain damage. In one patient there was loss of taste, and in two there was “minimal respiratory distress,” but none of these patients were thought to have any brain damage while alive.​​​Major cognitive effects of COVID​
In survivors of intensive care unit (ICU) stays due to acute respiratory failure or shock from any cause, one-third of people show such a profound degree of cognitive impairment that performance on neuropsychological testing is comparable to those with moderate traumatic brain injury. In daily life, such cognitive effects on memory, attention, and executive function can lead to difficulties managing medications, managing finances, comprehending written materials, and even carrying on conversations with friends and family. Commonly observed long-term psychological effects of ICU stays include anxiety, depression, and post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD). Effects due to COVID ICU stays are expected to be similar — a prediction that has already been confirmed by the studies in Britain, Canada, and Finland reviewed above.​​​Subtle cognitive effects of COVID​
It is clear that COVID can cause brain damage by direct infection (encephalitis), by strokes, and by lack of oxygen. It is also clear that when patients experience severe illness requiring an ICU stay, brain damage is highly likely to occur, and its effects are typically obvious. But what if the COVID illness is not so severe? Can brain damage still occur?​​A Chinese group of doctors and researchers examined several aspects of cognitive function in 29 individuals who were thought to have fully recovered from COVID infection. They found persistent impairment in sustained attention — the ability to attend to important information for as long as it is relevant.​​​Long-term cognitive effects of COVID infection​
Why would sustained attention be persistently impaired in individuals who were thought to have fully recovered from COVID? The Chinese group thought it might be linked to underlying inflammatory processes. But it is equally likely that patients with COVID suffered silent strokes or lack of oxygen that damaged their brains. As discussed above, strokes due to COVID are common, particularly in those over 70. We know that silent strokes frequently occur, and are a risk factor for both large strokes and dementia. Silent strokes typically affect the brain’s white matter — the wiring between brain cells that enables different parts of the brain to communicate with each other. This wiring is essential for attention, and when it is damaged, sustained attention is impaired.​​​The bottom line​
There is one inevitable conclusion from these studies: COVID infection frequently leads to brain damage — particularly in those over 70. While sometimes the brain damage is obvious and leads to major cognitive impairment, more frequently the damage is mild, leading to difficulties with sustained attention.​​


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## Melensdad

UC Davis Medical has adopted the term "Long Haulers" to describe the problems that some Covid patients seem to have, and not recover from.  Now as this disease is less than 2 years old we don't know if they will ever recover or if they will suffer for the remainder of their lives.

Again, just trying to bring up part of this disease that nobody really talks much about.  

The media bombards us with death counts.  They try to scare us with hospitals turning people away.  Few of us see that in the areas where we live but there are things we do see.

Interesting take from UC Davis  VIDEO at the LINK ==>  https://health.ucdavis.edu/coronavirus/covid-19-information/covid-19-long-haulers.html


*Long haulers: Why some people experience long-term coronavirus symptoms Updated Dec. 8, 2020*​
Novel coronavirus symptoms can last weeks or months for some people. These patients, given the name "long haulers", have in theory recovered from the worst impacts of COVID-19 and have tested negative. However, they still have symptoms. There seems to be no consistent reason for this to happen.

Researchers estimate about 10% of COVID-19 patients become long haulers, according to a recent article from The Journal of the American Medical Associationand a study done by British scientists. That’s in line with what UC Davis Health is seeing.

This condition can effect anyone – old and young, otherwise healthy people and those battling other conditions. It has been seen in those who were hospitalized with COVID-19 and patients with very mild symptoms.

Common COVID-19 symptoms of long haulers​The list of long hauler symptoms is long, wide and inconsistent. For some people, the lasting coronavirus symptoms are nothing like the original symptoms when they were first infected with COVID-19. The most common long hauler symptoms include:


Coughing
Ongoing, sometimes debilitating, fatigue
Body aches
Joint pain
Shortness of breath
Loss of taste and smell — even if this didn’t occur during the height of illness
Difficulty sleeping
Headaches
Brain fog
Brain fog is among the most confusing symptoms for long haulers. Patients report being unusually forgetful, confused or unable to concentrate even enough to watch TV. This can happen to people who were in an intensive care unit for a while, but it’s relatively rare. However, it is happening to a variety of patients, including those who weren’t hospitalized.

Some people have reported feeling better for days or even weeks then relapsing. For others, it’s a case of just not feeling like themselves.

Why do long haulers continue to experience long-term COVID-19 symptoms?​There's not a lot of information on long haulers, who only recently received attention from experts because it’s also so new. The vast majority of long haulers test negative for COVID-19. There’s nothing specific to test for lasting coronavirus symptoms.

One common theory about patients with long-term COVID-19 symptoms is that the virus possibly remains in their bodies in some small form. Another theory is their immune systems continue to overreact even though the infection has passed.

What is being done to help COVID-19 long haulers?​As with many other COVID-19 issues, it’s hard to identify why something is occurring when the disease was discovered less than a year ago. Learning how to treat long haulers also requires time.

Also, because the disease is so new, much of the information about COVID-19 cases and care is anecdotal. However, that is changing.

UC Davis Health launched the region’s first Post-COVID-19 Clinic to provide streamlined, comprehensive specialty care for long haulers. We are one of only a handful of health systems in the U.S. to create a clinic that cares for these patients.

Learn more about COVID-19 long haulers

Learn more about UC Davis Health's Post-COVID-19 Clinic

Can COVID-19 long-haul symptoms cause permanent damage?​The answer to this is not clear. Health care providers don't know how many of these symptoms are permanent, or if there is permanent damage being done. Some patients who have been seriously ill from COVID-19 develop acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS), which can permanently scar their lungs. But it’s not clear if there is any scarring for long-haulers who have respiratory issues but not at the severe level of ARDS.

Other patients with long-term loss of smell and taste worry about permanent damage, too. Experts believe that the loss of smell and taste won't be permanent. For most people, there will likely be resolution, but there isn't a clear answer as to how long this will take.

Learn about the frightening uncertainty for long-haul COVID-19 patients​


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## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

IMO, PG's views are biased because she works directly in a high risk environment.  I feel Bob's views tend to be alarmist but that is probably because he has pre-existing conditions and feels he is at a higher risk than the average person.  I feel both of you need to be extra cautious because of these factors but I feel that the average healthy family should not have their liberties forcibly infringed upon.

At the end of the day, this is an engineered bio-weapon that has been released upon the world. The statistical impact for the average healthy population is not as bad as the media and certain groups want it to appear to be. 

We as a free people can either adapt and learn to deal with this or continue to run around and scream that the sky is falling. I feel the latter view is non-productive and to a certain degree exactly what the left/democrats/globalist/technocrats want to see happening.

I've stated my position and will continue to state it as you are free to state yours.


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## pirate_girl

Yes I'm biased because I know first hand what this particular virus is capable of, much like years in the past when a flu would go through facilities I've worked for. Only this virus is very different.
Early on, I spoke of how it was capable of getting into places even though we thought everything was up to snuff, did our contact tracing then boom, there it was again, only not as fierce as what happened last August-September.

When it gets into a healthcare setting and takes 17 of your residents like it did ours, that certainly makes you sit up and blink.
It recently did the same at the center where I was employed in Delphos, and I know the Toledo area was hit hard.

As it stands right now, it doesn't seem as bad as it was across the country, or else the media are distracted by the political garbage.

I want life to be normal again.
Everyone does.


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## mla2ofus

I'm not qualified to make medical judgments but my little theory is that overuse of antibacterials such as soaps, hand cleaners, etc weakens the immune system by preventing the system from fighting minor viruses etc and therefore the immune system lets it's guard down so to  speak. Knock on wood we don't use antibacterials and both being over 70 we're still healthy. This is just my opinion and, like free advice, worth every penny you pay for it.


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## Ceee

Melensdad said:


> Dr John Campbell from England. I've quoted and referred to him many times in this thread.  Good news for the UK,  Probably coming to the US, Canada, and the world very soon.  Cost = 3 Euro, about US$4
> 
> Easy to mass produce.
> Cheap to make.
> Easy to transport and distribute in normal medical supply chains.
> 
> About 25 minutes of video and worth watching.


I see that this has vaccine has started rolling out, which I think is really good news.  Pfizer and Moderna are not moving at warp speed as expected. I believe the powers-that-be are even considering giving 1/2 doses of the available vaccines in order to administer it to more people.


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## Melensdad

The UK went on full lockdown this evening.  I’ll find out from my sister what that actually means and report back.  She was already under a no travel outside her area order. 

Also the CDC finally admitted that some tests give a high rate of ‘false positive’ results. That will set up Biden as a hero when the new data starts coming out around Inauguration Day showing the infected numbers collapsing. Hate to sound political but I honestly believe it is political.

A US official stated there is more evidence that this is a lab created virus.  Not that it matters at this point.

I’d post links to the above info but I’m tired from moving boxes into my daughters apartment.  She moved out and into her first real place up in Chicago.


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## jimbo

Melensdad said:


> The UK went on full lockdown this evening.  I’ll find out from my sister what that actually means and report back.  She was already under a no travel outside her area order.
> 
> Also the CDC finally admitted that some tests give a high rate of ‘false positive’ results. That will set up Biden as a hero when the new data starts coming out around Inauguration Day showing the infected numbers collapsing. Hate to sound political but I honestly believe it is political.
> 
> A US official stated there is more evidence that this is a lab created virus.  Not that it matters at this point.
> 
> I’d post links to the above info but I’m tired from moving boxes into my daughters apartment.  She moved out and into her first real place up in Chicago.


I believe the entire response to the virus is political.  We've going on a year with this response.  Basically mask and distancing and now in his first 100 days he's going to do something new.  Masks and distancing.  

Northram  has added his plan.  No out and about late at night travel.  The time no one is out and about.


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## pirate_girl




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## mla2ofus

I firmly believe in a lot of cases it's partly about the virus but it's mostly about power and control of citizens.


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## Melensdad

More info on long term illnesses.  This directly addressing ‘Covid brain’ as PG called it.  

So we now have more factual evidence of physical changes to the body from Covid.  Lung issues showing physical changes have been documented. Physical changes to the Heart have been documented.  Now physical brain issues are documented.  

From United Press International:  https://www.upi.com/Health_News/202...-by-immune-response-study-says/5111609427419/

COVID-19 brain damage caused by immune response, study says​




Researchers report that the effects of COVID-19 on the brain appear to be caused by the immune system's response to the coronavirus, not the virus itself. File Photo by Riff/Shutterstock
Blood vessel damage and inflammation in the brains of deceased COVID-19 patients suggest the damage is not caused by the virus, but the body's immune response to it.

Researchers from the U.S. National Institutes of Health consistently found signs of damage caused by thinning and leaky brain blood vessels in tissue samples from patients who died shortly after getting COVID-19.

The researchers saw no signs of the virus in the tissue samples, which they said may mean that the damage was not caused by the virus itself.

"We found that the brains of patients who contract [COVID-19] may be susceptible to microvascular blood vessel damage. Our results suggest that this may be caused by the body's inflammatory response to the virus," said Dr. Avindra Nath, clinical director at the NIH's National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke.

"We hope these results will help doctors understand the full spectrum of problems patients may suffer so that we can come up with better treatments," he explained in an NIH news release.

For the study, Nath and his team examined brain tissue from 19 patients who died after having COVID-19.

In 16 patients, the investigators found bright spots, which contained blood vessels that were thinner than normal and sometimes leaking blood proteins into the brain. The spots were surrounded by T cells -- signs of an immune response.

In contrast, dark spots contained clotted and leaky blood vessels but no immune response.

"We were completely surprised," Nath said. "Originally, we expected to see damage that is caused by a lack of oxygen. Instead, we saw multifocal areas of damage that is usually associated with strokes and neuroinflammatory diseases."

The researchers, however, saw no signs of infection in the brain samples.

"So far, our results suggest that the damage we saw may not have been caused by the [coronavirus] directly infecting the brain," Nath said. "In the future, we plan to study how COVID-19 harms the brain's blood vessels and whether that produces some of the short- and long-term symptoms we see in patients."

The findings were published this week in the New England Journal of Medicine.


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## Melensdad

New York issued a special warning to people ages 75 and above.  As infections soar, apparently the most vulnerable are at even greater risk.









						NYC Issues ‘Urgent' Warning for People 75 ; NY Halts Plan to Expand NYPD Eligibility
					

New York City health officials issued a new and heightened warning Wednesday to people age 75 and up, citing concerning case growth rates and more disturbing numbers on hospitalizations and deaths in the last 30 days. That age group has accounted for 6 percent of new citywide cases over the last...




					www.nbcnewyork.com


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## Melensdad

The new "KENT" strain from England seems to be about 50% more infectious than the original strain of Covid that was passed around the world.  The new "SOUTH AFRICAN" strain from, obviously South Africa, is also about 50% more infectious.  There are some differences between the two.  From what I can gather, BOTH of these mutations come with complications for YOUNGER people.  The original Covid 19 basically harmed about 1/2 of 1% people and killed far far far less than those if you were under 50 years old.

The new strains seem to affect people under 40 the way the original strain affected people over 55.  And its spreading faster, much much faster.  

On the bright side we now have vaccines, so with any luck we'll be able to ramp up the vaccinations to counteract the spread and stop this by early summer?

In addition to that news above, here is a partial summary from our friends at ZeroHedge:




__





						Zerohedge
					

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero




					www.zerohedge.com
				




US Reports Another Daily Case Record; COVID Deaths In UK, Germany Top 1K: Live Updates​*Summary: *


US sees record 310K new cases
NJ reported nearly 20K new cases
CA reports 50K cases
UK, Germany daily deaths top 1K
UK tops 3MM cases
UK deaths top 80K
Portugal reports 9K+ cases
Japan may extend emergency order
China moves to expedite vaccinations
* * *

Yesterday, we reported on speculation about a new hyper-infectious COVID-19 strain that could be circulating around the US. Well, mere hours after CNN shared the evidence gleaned from a Jan. 3 report from the White House coronavirus task force, members of the committee are insisting it was inaccurate. Another example of 'Fake News' reported by CNN, we suppose. But we digress...

As of Saturday morning, the the coronavirus outbreak in the US and Europe showed no signs of abating over the last 24 hours, as the US reported another record jump in new cases, according to the COVID Tracking Project.





NJ reported nearly 20K probable COVID-19 cases and CA reported over 50K cases, with both states greatly influencing the large uptick in today's total cases. In NY, 18.8K new cases were reported, with hospitalizations at a near-record 8.6K. To try and hasten the pace of vaccinations as NY falls further behind, Cuomo has again expanded the list of who is eligible, with all people 75 and older now able to receive the vaccine.

16 states in total reported their highest hospitalization numbers this week.





Germany's death toll has topped 1K for a 4th-straight day, prompting Chancellor Angela Merkel to try to hasten the pace of vaccinations. Meanwhile, in France, Emmanuel Macron is promising to have 100K of the country's most vulnerable people vaccinated by the end of the weekend. That's up from 80K as of Friday afternoon. Across the US more than 7MM people have been vaccinated.

In terms of infections, the US continues to outpace Europe, and the UK is outpacing all of its Continental peers.





Even China is intensifying is vaccine rollout plan as new lockdowns rattle Shijiazhuang, the capital of Hebei Province (situated in the northeast near Beijing). Data from trials in Brazil and Indonesia shows vaccines from SinoPharm are 78% effective, according to the Brazil trial data.


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## Melensdad

More on complications from Covid.


Link from CBS Dallas affiliate —> https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2021/01/13...type-of-terrible-smokers-lung-weve-ever-seen/

Texas Trauma Surgeon Says ‘Post-COVID Lungs Look Worse Than Any Type Of Terrible Smokers Lung We’ve Ever Seen’​Nicole NielsenJanuary 13, 2021 at 6:52 pm
*(CBSDFW.COM) –* Texas trauma surgeon Dr. Brittany Bankhead-Kendall says it’s a rarity that any of her COVID-19 patients X-rays come back without dense scarring.

In one of her Twitter posts, she says “post-covid lungs look worse than any type of terrible smokers lung we’ve ever seen.”

“Everyone’s just so worried about the mortality thing and that’s terrible and it’s awful. But man, and all the survivors and the people who have tested positive this is, it’s going to be a problem,” Dr. Bankhead-Kendall said.

Like many, she’s treated thousands of patients since March.

Of them, she tells CBS 11 News those who have had COVID-19 symptoms show a severe chest X-ray every time. And those who were asymptomatic show a severe chest X-ray 70 to 80% of the time.

“There are still people who say ‘I’m fine I don’t have any issues’ and you pull up their chest X-ray and they absolutely have a bad chest X-ray,” she said.

Here is a photo of a normal lung, smokers lung and a COVID-19 lung that Dr. Bankhead-Kendall shared with CBS 11 News.





(Courtesy: Dr. Brittany Bankhead-Kendall)

The healthy lungs are clean with black representing the air. In the smokers lung, white lines are indicative of scarring and congestion. While the COVID lung is filled with white.

“You’ll either see a lot of that white dense scarring or you’ll see it throughout the entire lung. And if you’re not feeling problems now the fact that that’s on your chest X-ray It sure is indicative of you possibly having problems later on,” said Dr. Bankhead-Kendall.

She said it’s too early to know the extent of COVID-19’s impact on your body or if the scarring will heal, however she said it’s important that if you’re experiencing shortness of breath after your COVID-19 goes away, stay in touch with your primary care doctor.


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## Melensdad

FWIW from what I can tell about 10-15% of the people who get Covid have complications and survive.  Based on some research maybe 10% of those have long term issues.  So maybe your chances of having heart, lung or brain complications are about 2%.


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## pirate_girl

Melensdad said:


> FWIW from what I can tell about 10-15% of the people who get Covid have complications and survive.  Based on some research maybe 10% of those have long term issues.  So maybe your chances of having heart, lung or brain complications are about 2%.


That's accurate based on what we've continued to learn over the past almost YEAR.
Now that we're covid clear (thank God) and continue to be so, I'm hoping for some end in sight.
Looking back it's pretty much like any other virus, with those who are the most at risk. Feels like I'm saying exactly what I said from the outset.
By the way, one of our ladies who has spent months and months on a vent, feeding tube etc at St. V's in Toledo returned to us at last.
No issues other than she is now a sit to stand lift.
With PT I expect soon she will be completely mobile.
This is the best news for me personally because I absolutely adore her and clearly recall the day I sent her out thinking she would never make it.
Covid is bad, but God is stronger.
?


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## Melensdad

The NIH has changed its guidance from being opposed to IVERMECTIN to now taking a more neutral stance.  They now recommend it’s use only in clinical trials.  So it’s likely a clinical trial will be started, perhaps a few of them.  They will probably be completed after most of the vaccines are distributed and it’s likely we will see results sometime ahead of the next pandemic.


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## Melensdad

And while Bank of America’s analysts focus on bad news, the number crunchers at Goldman-Sachs may have hit the truth on the head about hospitalization rates in the US





__





						Zerohedge
					

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero




					www.zerohedge.com
				




​​​US COVID Hospitalizations Post First Drop In Months...But BofA Has Some Bad News​
*Just a couple of weeks ago, while Joe Biden and Dr. Fauci were warning about a "long dark winter" ahead and encouraging local leaders in the US (along with their colleagues in the EU) to prepare for the worst to come,*the COVID-19 situation internationally was looking pretty bleak.​​But as more Americans and Europeans grow increasingly skeptical of the official narrative, with many - including front-line hospital workers - declining to receive the vaccine, the most recent wave of cases and hospitalizations has packed hospitals across the country, which are desperate for a reprieve. Some 130K Covid patients are being cared for currently. Meanwhile, the country posted 213,885 cases on Tuesday, pushing the seven-day average to 246,133, Covid Tracking Project data show.​​Across the US, at least 380,825 people have died, according to Johns Hopkins University data.​​*However, the number of hospitalized COVID-19 patients was roughly flat in the US this week, and likely will begin declining for the first time since September as the world heads into mid-January, *despite all those warnings about the worst months lying ahead, along with the flurry of new mutated strains that purportedly infect people more quickly.​​This shift has got thousands of professionals wondering: *has the outbreak finally peaked?*​​And if so, how come officials are insisting that humans, even those who have received both doses of the vaccine, continue to social distance and wear masks?​​*The numbers are now dropping compared with a week earlier in both the Northeast and Midwest, *according to the Covid Tracking Project.​​

​​In the West, they were up 0.8%, the least since Oct. 1 on a percentage basis. *The South has the most alarming momentum, with an increase of 4.2% from seven days earlier.*​​*Deaths and cases appear to finally be rolling over, but BofA is less optimistic:*​​


> As has often been the case during this crisis, there is a race going on between the negative impact of the COVID crisis and the fiscal policy offset. With the holidays behind us, there is tentative evidence that COVID cases are starting to level off. However, we do not expect much of a slowing in the next couple months. Indeed, if the new UK strain spreads, cases will probably start increasing again. *Given the usual lags, hospitalizations and fatalities could trend higher for the next few weeks. As we have noted before, hospitalizations seem to be the main driver of social distancing rules, suggesting more tightening to come.*





​​But *while analysts at BofA are preoccupied with the new mutant hyperinfectious strains, a team at Goldman Sachs recently explained why hospitalizations and deaths will likely decline in the US and Europe in the coming weeks and months.*​​

​​As it turns out, vaccinating long-term care facility patients first has effectively* taken many of the most high-risk individuals out of harm's way.*​


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## Doc

Thanks Bob for keeping us up to date on the latest Covid info.


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## NorthernRedneck

We're into a full province wide lockdown that's slated to be lifted by February 10th if the numbers are ok. 

A stay at home order is now in effect.....unless you have to go out of course. 

Stores are only allowed to open of they can offer curb side pickup. Except Walmart. You can go in there and do whatever you want. 

For the first time in many years, our hospital has room and isn't filled to capacity. 

We had 14 new cases of covid yesterday. 12 of them in the local jail where there was already an outbreak. 1 was in a seniors home where there was already an outbreak. One was with close contact with a previous known case. 

The us/Canada border is still closed for another month so no international travel is allowed....unless you fly. Then you can go to the states. Have your vehicle shipped across the border and pick it up on the other side. Because, you know, cramming yourself onto a plane full of strangers is safer then driving your own vehicle across. 

Trudeau is still bringing in plane fulls of registered voters from the middle east to ensure his re election on the next go-around.


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## Ceee

Melensdad said:


> And while Bank of America’s analysts focus on bad news, the number crunchers at Goldman-Sachs may have hit the truth on the head about hospitalization rates in the US
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zerohedge
> 
> 
> ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.zerohedge.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​​​US COVID Hospitalizations Post First Drop In Months...But BofA Has Some Bad News​
> *Just a couple of weeks ago, while Joe Biden and Dr. Fauci were warning about a "long dark winter" ahead and encouraging local leaders in the US (along with their colleagues in the EU) to prepare for the worst to come,*the COVID-19 situation internationally was looking pretty bleak.​​But as more Americans and Europeans grow increasingly skeptical of the official narrative, with many - including front-line hospital workers - declining to receive the vaccine, the most recent wave of cases and hospitalizations has packed hospitals across the country, which are desperate for a reprieve. Some 130K Covid patients are being cared for currently. Meanwhile, the country posted 213,885 cases on Tuesday, pushing the seven-day average to 246,133, Covid Tracking Project data show.​​Across the US, at least 380,825 people have died, according to Johns Hopkins University data.​​*However, the number of hospitalized COVID-19 patients was roughly flat in the US this week, and likely will begin declining for the first time since September as the world heads into mid-January, *despite all those warnings about the worst months lying ahead, along with the flurry of new mutated strains that purportedly infect people more quickly.​​This shift has got thousands of professionals wondering: *has the outbreak finally peaked?*​​And if so, how come officials are insisting that humans, even those who have received both doses of the vaccine, continue to social distance and wear masks?​​*The numbers are now dropping compared with a week earlier in both the Northeast and Midwest, *according to the Covid Tracking Project.​​
> 
> ​​In the West, they were up 0.8%, the least since Oct. 1 on a percentage basis. *The South has the most alarming momentum, with an increase of 4.2% from seven days earlier.*​​*Deaths and cases appear to finally be rolling over, but BofA is less optimistic:*​​
> 
> 
> 
> ​​But *while analysts at BofA are preoccupied with the new mutant hyperinfectious strains, a team at Goldman Sachs recently explained why hospitalizations and deaths will likely decline in the US and Europe in the coming weeks and months.*​​
> 
> ​​As it turns out, vaccinating long-term care facility patients first has effectively* taken many of the most high-risk individuals out of harm's way.*​


From your link:

"This shift has got thousands of professionals wondering: *has the outbreak finally peaked?*
And if so, how come officials are insisting that humans, even those who have received both doses of the vaccine, continue to social distance and wear masks?"

"Thousands of professionals *wondering*," says to me that they're not quite sure yet.  I certainly get why they're still insisting that people continue to wear masks and social distance.  This seems like a pick-your-poison situation to me.  Do you want to go the safer route and require masks and social distancing, or do you want to take a chance and go the ol' go back to normal thing.  

Although I hated it at first, I really don't mind wearing a mask now.  I choose safe better than sorry.


----------



## Melensdad

Ceee said:


> Although I hated it at first, I really don't mind wearing a mask now.  I choose safe better than sorry.


Problem is I do not believe most masks work. 

n95 masks probably work well and protect both the wearer and others

Clean. New. Surgical masks probably work well at protecting others, probably do something for protecting the wearer. 

Fabric masks might offer a little protection for others. No protection for wearer.

Fabric masks that have an n95 filter pocket will probably be about as protective as a surgical mask.  They offer no seal like a true n95 so far less protection for the wearer.  But certainly will protect others. 

All of this depends on mask hygiene. Studies show that reused surgical masks (after several hours of use) might offer as much protection as nothing at all. A mask taken on and off many times is probably useless too because it’s been typically touched inside and out by germ filled hands.

There are many variables and most people simply think a mask is a magic barrier.  Without proper mask hygiene and handling they seem pretty pointless.


----------



## Ceee

Melensdad said:


> Problem is I do not believe most masks work.
> 
> n95 masks probably work well and protect both the wearer and others
> 
> Clean. New. Surgical masks probably work well at protecting others, probably do something for protecting the wearer.
> 
> Fabric masks might offer a little protection for others. No protection for wearer.
> 
> Fabric masks that have an n95 filter pocket will probably be about as protective as a surgical mask.  They offer no seal like a true n95 so far less protection for the wearer.  But certainly will protect others.
> 
> All of this depends on mask hygiene. Studies show that reused surgical masks (after several hours of use) might offer as much protection as nothing at all. A mask taken on and off many times is probably useless too because it’s been typically touched inside and out by germ filled hands.
> 
> There are many variables and most people simply think a mask is a magic barrier.  Without proper mask hygiene and handling they seem pretty pointless.


At the beginning of all this, they were asking that you didn't buy any of the n95 masks so that the medical professionals could get them.  I see that they're available now for the everyday person, so I just bought some.  I've been wearing the fabric masks and rotating.  Thanks for the input.


----------



## Ceee

Texas has been hit hard, and things seem to be worsening.   One area has only 3 ICU beds left. 
I saw this morning that we're the first state to issue 1 million vaccines.


----------



## Melensdad

Ceee said:


> At the beginning of all this, they were asking that you didn't buy any of the n95 masks so that the medical professionals could get them.  I see that they're available now for the everyday person, so I just bought some.  I've been wearing the fabric masks and rotating.  Thanks for the input.


I was fortunate that I had my own supply of N95 masks. 

The CDC and Dr Fauci were very inconsistent in what they told the public, about masks, which was unfortunate.  They could have used that time to educate but they all failed.  Instead they lied, and they misled, and they told people to make 3 layer masks out of cotton, which are pretty much worthless.  All sorts of bad masks are out there and the meta-data on disease spread clearly shows that masks are ineffective, but that same data basically shows people don't understand how to use a mask so is it the fault of the mask?  I don't think so when you consider that in hospitals_ (here they use a surgical mask + an n95 mask)_ the workers are not infected at a higher rate than in the general public so cleary something works.

While not a Trump supporter I give him a lot of credit for allowing companies like 3M, which produces tens of millions of N95 masks for the construction industry (_same mask, but not certified for medical use_) to send those identical construction masks to the medical industry.  The FDC initially would not agree but Trump pushed that through.  He did a lot of things like that and deserves the credit for getting the supplies out to the people who needed them.


----------



## Melensdad

Just a side note, I just got back from a walk out to the mailbox.  Yes, I know, it was delivered hours ago but I never picked it up. 

I put 2 n95 masks in my mailbox for my neighbor to pick up, his wife had cancer, is still under doctor's observation and he doesn't have nay n95 masks.  While I was putting the masks in my mailbox for him to pick up _(he passes my driveway early every morning)_ I picked up may mail.  

Inside my mailbox was a shipping envelope from Notre Dame.  They sent me a "ND" logo mask, the same type the students get.  Its just a couple layers of cloth.  Sure it will catch some of my spittle, the bigger droplets anyway, but there is no filter pocket, I consider it a *"fashion mask"* or a *"propaganda mask"* and certainly not something that I'd expect to use if I was in the medical profession.


----------



## EastTexFrank

NR, thank you for pointing put some of the idiocy associated with with these COVID restrictions.  They wouldn't make sense to a half wit but that still seems to be way above the intellectual level of a politician.  

Bob, like you, when this thing started I had a bunch of N-95 masks out in the shop.  I still have a lot because I don't go into town and be around people very often.  So, at the very most, I wear one for an hour at a time.  When I come home I hang it up outside in the fresh air and the sunshine for a week and then reuse it until I get about 8 hours on it and then I discard it.  My wife can't wear N-95s because she can't breathe in them.  She got several "fashion" masks with replaceable filters and that's what she has been wearing for the past several months.  When I do go into town I'm shocked at the number of people who don't wear masks at all but I'm amazed at the number and types of masks that are being worn that can't possibly provide any protection to the wearer or anybody around them.  

This thing will play out however it plays out.  We won't be letting our guard down until we both get our vaccine shots which doesn't look to be happening any time soon, perhaps two or three months.


----------



## mla2ofus

I still ask if this occurred in '19 or '21 would the effects still be the same with neither being an election year.


----------



## Melensdad

EastTexFrank said:


> . . . but* I'm amazed at the number and types of masks that are being worn that can't possibly provide any protection to the weare*r or anybody around them....


Yup.  Exactly this.  

I get why the meta data shows masks as ineffective. I understand why people say they don’t work. It’s because there are people who put the equivalent of a screen door on their face and venture out into crowds.

They don’t wash their masks.  They leave them laying around.  Etc


----------



## Ceee

EastTexFrank said:


> NR, thank you for pointing put some of the idiocy associated with with these COVID restrictions.  They wouldn't make sense to a half wit but that still seems to be way above the intellectual level of a politician.
> 
> Bob, like you, when this thing started I had a bunch of N-95 masks out in the shop.  I still have a lot because I don't go into town and be around people very often.  So, at the very most, I wear one for an hour at a time.  When I come home I hang it up outside in the fresh air and the sunshine for a week and then reuse it until I get about 8 hours on it and then I discard it.  My wife can't wear N-95s because she can't breathe in them.  She got several "fashion" masks with replaceable filters and that's what she has been wearing for the past several months.  When I do go into town I'm shocked at the number of people who don't wear masks at all but I'm amazed at the number and types of masks that are being worn that can't possibly provide any protection to the wearer or anybody around them.
> 
> This thing will play out however it plays out.  We won't be letting our guard down until we both get our vaccine shots which doesn't look to be happening any time soon, perhaps two or three months.


You probably already know this, but I thought it was worth mentioning just in case.









						Here's how to sign up to get a COVID-19 vaccine at any hub in Texas
					

The hubs will be open to residents from all parts of Texas, not just those who live in the location of the hub, officials said.




					www.wfaa.com
				





Who can get the vaccine in Phase 1B?​According to the DSHS, Texans in Phase 1B may begin receiving the COVID-19 vaccine immediately. Phase 1B includes: 

People 65 years old and older
People 16 years old and older with at least one chronic medical condition that puts them at increased risk for severe illness from the coronavirus, including but not limited to:
Cancer
Chronic kidney disease
COPD (chronic obstructive pulmonary disease)
Heart conditions, such as heart failure, coronary artery disease or cardiomyopathies
Solid organ transplantation
Obesity and severe obesity (body mass index of 30 kg/m2 or higher)
Pregnancy
Sickle cell disease
Type 2 diabetes mellitus


----------



## Ceee

I heard something interesting on the news. This is kind of fluff info, no professional info or link, just something I heard.  There was dr on there who works in a college town and said that they're using what they call their Hangover Remedy for some people who are experiencing fatigue, tension headaches, and muscle pains and aches after having had covid.  He said they're using an iv to infuse a concoction (my word, not his) of vitamins, electrolytes, etc.  He emphasized that it is *not a cure* but does seem to temporarily relieve some of the long term symptoms that some people have been experiencing.


----------



## EastTexFrank

Ceee, the phrase that is notable in the video is, "By appointment only".  Try getting an appointment!  We've been trying for weeks because they are not making any more appointments or allowing any more registrations.  One of our local pharmacies is giving vaccine shots at the rate of approximately 10 a day.  They are fitting appointments in between their usual pharmacy work.  There are over 40K people in our rural county.  How long will that take?  BTW they have also closed registrations.  

The video is very encouraging but the reality is not.


----------



## pirate_girl

Ohio sees lowest number of new coronavirus cases in 21 days
					

COLUMBUS — The state of Ohio is seeing a drop in new coronavirus cases on Monday.  Ohio reported 4,312 new coronavirus cases, which is below the 21-day ...




					www.toledoblade.com


----------



## Ceee

EastTexFrank said:


> Ceee, the phrase that is notable in the video is, "By appointment only".  Try getting an appointment!  We've been trying for weeks because they are not making any more appointments or allowing any more registrations.  One of our local pharmacies is giving vaccine shots at the rate of approximately 10 a day.  They are fitting appointments in between their usual pharmacy work.  There are over 40K people in our rural county.  How long will that take?  BTW they have also closed registrations.
> 
> The video is very encouraging but the reality is not.


Yep, I saw a woman in Houston on the news this morning who asked...What's the use of getting an appointment when you still have to wait in line for 4 hours?  Her site must have been a drive-thru place and the video footage showed cars wound around in a very long line.

I'm not eligible quite yet, but it won't be long and I'll be hawking all the places giving the vaccine.


----------



## Ceee

pirate_girl said:


> Ohio sees lowest number of new coronavirus cases in 21 days
> 
> 
> COLUMBUS — The state of Ohio is seeing a drop in new coronavirus cases on Monday.  Ohio reported 4,312 new coronavirus cases, which is below the 21-day ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.toledoblade.com


Good for you, PG.  My area is still pretty pitiful.


----------



## EastTexFrank

Ceee said:


> Good for you, PG.  My area is still pretty pitiful.


Yea, so is mine and it is still impossible to get an appointment for the shots  

With me being so isolated up on my little hill, I didn't even know that another of my long time neighbors died last week.  Larry was 84, I think, and still actively run cows and cut hay.  That makes two good neighbors that I've lost in just over a year.  Both of them were here long before I arrived and I've been here over 20-years.  

It seems that he had a big family gathering at Thanksgiving.  Both he and his brother came down with COVID within two weeks and have been fighting it ever since.  He and his brother died within 8 days of one another.  

I hate this F**king COVID.


----------



## EastTexFrank

EastTexFrank said:


> Yea, so is mine and it is still impossible to get an appointment for the shots
> 
> With me being so isolated up on my little hill, I didn't even know that another of my long time neighbors died last week.  Larry was 84, I think, and still actively run cows and cut hay.  That makes two good neighbors that I've lost in just over a year.  Both of them were here long before I arrived and I've been here over 20-years.
> 
> It seems that he had a big family gathering at Thanksgiving.  Both he and his brother came down with COVID within two weeks and have been fighting it ever since.  He and his brother died within 8 days of one another.   Talk about a devastated family.
> 
> I hate this F**king COVID.


----------



## Melensdad

I've seen a few more reports, I won't bore you by posting several, they all say pretty similar things.  Here is a story that summarizes everything pretty well.  Basically the LONG TERM ISSUES are now being recognized as bigger issues than previously thought.









						One in eight recovered COVID patients die from illness complications within 5 months: UK study
					

Almost a third of recovered COVID-19 patients in a UK study ended up back in the hospital within five months — and up to one in eight died of complications from the illness, according to a re…




					nypost.com
				




One in eight recovered COVID patients die from illness complications within 5 months: UK study​By Yaron Steinbuch
Almost a third of recovered COVID-19 patients in a UK study ended up back in the hospital within five months — and up to one in eight died of complications from the illness, according to a report.

Researchers at the UK’s Leicester University and the Office for National Statistics found that out of 47,780 people discharged from the hospital, 29.4 percent were readmitted within 140 days, the Telegraph reported.

*Of the total, 12.3 percent ended up dying*, it added.

Respiratory disease was diagnosed in 14,140 of the COVID cases after discharge, with 6,085 of the diagnoses in patients who had no history of respiratory conditions.

*The mean age of study participants was 65 years.*

Many people who suffer long-lasting effects of the coronavirus develop heart problems, diabetes and chronic liver and kidney conditions, according to the report.

The research also found a higher risk of problems developing in various organs after people younger than 70 and ethnic minorities were discharged from the hospital, according to the Guardian.

*“People seem to be going home, getting long-term effects, coming back in and dying.* We see nearly 30 percent have been readmitted, and that’s a lot of people. The numbers are so large,” study author Kamlesh Khunti said.

*“The message here is we really need to prepare for long COVID. *It’s a mammoth task to follow up with these patients and the NHS is really pushed at the moment, but some sort of monitoring needs to be arranged,” added Khunti, a professor of primary care diabetes and vascular medicine at Leicester University.

The study — which Khunti described as the largest of people discharged from a hospital after being admitted with COVID-19 — found that survivors were nearly 3½ times more likely to be readmitted, and die, in 140 days than other outpatients.

Khunti said the researchers were surprised that many people were readmitted with a new diagnosis, adding that it was important to make sure people were placed on protective therapies, including statins and aspirin.

*“We don’t know if it’s because COVID destroyed the beta cells which make insulin and you get Type 1 diabetes, or whether it causes insulin resistance, and you develop Type 2, but we are seeing these surprising new diagnoses of diabetes,”* he said.

“We’ve seen studies where survivors have had MRS scans and they’ve cardiac problems and liver problems,” Khunti added. “These people urgently require follow-up and the need to be on things like aspirin and statins.”

Dr. Charlotte Summers, a lecturer in intensive care medicine at the University of Cambridge who was not involved in this study. told the Guardian: “There’s been so much talk about all these people dying from COVID … but death is not the only outcome that matters.

“The idea that we have that level of *increased risk in people … particularly young people*, it means we’ve got a lot of work to do,” she added.​


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> I've seen a few more reports, I won't bore you by posting several, they all say pretty similar things.  Here is a story that summarizes everything pretty well.  Basically the LONG TERM ISSUES are now being recognized as bigger issues than previously thought.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One in eight recovered COVID patients die from illness complications within 5 months: UK study
> 
> 
> Almost a third of recovered COVID-19 patients in a UK study ended up back in the hospital within five months — and up to one in eight died of complications from the illness, according to a re…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nypost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​​​One in eight recovered COVID patients die from illness complications within 5 months: UK study​
> By Yaron Steinbuch​Almost a third of recovered COVID-19 patients in a UK study ended up back in the hospital within five months — and up to one in eight died of complications from the illness, according to a report.​​Researchers at the UK’s Leicester University and the Office for National Statistics found that out of 47,780 people discharged from the hospital, 29.4 percent were readmitted within 140 days, the Telegraph reported.​​*Of the total, 12.3 percent ended up dying*, it added.​​Respiratory disease was diagnosed in 14,140 of the COVID cases after discharge, with 6,085 of the diagnoses in patients who had no history of respiratory conditions.​​*The mean age of study participants was 65 years.*​​Many people who suffer long-lasting effects of the coronavirus develop heart problems, diabetes and chronic liver and kidney conditions, according to the report.​​The research also found a higher risk of problems developing in various organs after people younger than 70 and ethnic minorities were discharged from the hospital, according to the Guardian.​​*“People seem to be going home, getting long-term effects, coming back in and dying.* We see nearly 30 percent have been readmitted, and that’s a lot of people. The numbers are so large,” study author Kamlesh Khunti said.​​*“The message here is we really need to prepare for long COVID. *It’s a mammoth task to follow up with these patients and the NHS is really pushed at the moment, but some sort of monitoring needs to be arranged,” added Khunti, a professor of primary care diabetes and vascular medicine at Leicester University.​​The study — which Khunti described as the largest of people discharged from a hospital after being admitted with COVID-19 — found that survivors were nearly 3½ times more likely to be readmitted, and die, in 140 days than other outpatients.​​Khunti said the researchers were surprised that many people were readmitted with a new diagnosis, adding that it was important to make sure people were placed on protective therapies, including statins and aspirin.​​*“We don’t know if it’s because COVID destroyed the beta cells which make insulin and you get Type 1 diabetes, or whether it causes insulin resistance, and you develop Type 2, but we are seeing these surprising new diagnoses of diabetes,”* he said.​​“We’ve seen studies where survivors have had MRS scans and they’ve cardiac problems and liver problems,” Khunti added. “These people urgently require follow-up and the need to be on things like aspirin and statins.”​​Dr. Charlotte Summers, a lecturer in intensive care medicine at the University of Cambridge who was not involved in this study. told the Guardian: “There’s been so much talk about all these people dying from COVID … but death is not the only outcome that matters.​​“The idea that we have that level of *increased risk in people … particularly young people*, it means we’ve got a lot of work to do,” she added.​


So I wonder what that means as far as a vaccine is concerned?


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> So I wonder what that means as far as a vaccine is concerned?


I don't understand the question?

The vaccine is not the virus.


----------



## pirate_girl

EastTexFrank said:


> I hate this F**king COVID.


I bet I hate it more, Frank.
Asap, get your vaccine.


----------



## EastTexFrank

Bob, I can believe everything said in your post.  I mentioned before on here that a guy I know, who owns a HVAC company in our little town, had caught COVID and was having a really hard time with it.  he's in his late 40s.  I saw him after he was discharged from hospital and he looked like crap.  I saw him again last week and he still looked like crap.  He said that he still couldn't breathe.  He's been for chest X-rays and an MRI and the doctor said that his lungs looked as if he had smoked two packs a day for his whole life.  He's never smoked one cigarette in his entire life.  There's a lot to this COVID that we still don't know or understand.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

__





						Who is dying from COVID-19 in the United Kingdom? A review of cremation authorisations from a single South Wales' crematorium | Epidemiology & Infection | Cambridge Core
					

Who is dying from COVID-19 in the United Kingdom? A review of cremation authorisations from a single South Wales' crematorium - Volume 149




					www.cambridge.org


----------



## Melensdad

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who is dying from COVID-19 in the United Kingdom? A review of cremation authorisations from a single South Wales' crematorium | Epidemiology & Infection | Cambridge Core
> 
> 
> Who is dying from COVID-19 in the United Kingdom? A review of cremation authorisations from a single South Wales' crematorium - Volume 149
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cambridge.org


I'm not sure what this post is trying to point out?

Is it that the deaths are primarily older people?  

If so I think that is well established. In my state (Indiana) the vaccine roll out is phased in by age.  Those over 80 first.  Now it's those over 70.  The website shows that registration for those over 60 will be available to receive the vaccine come soon (maybe 1-2 weeks?).  Age is a clear risk factor and we know the vast majority of deaths to Covid and complications arisen due to Covid are in the over 65 year old age population.  

What we are seeing now, particularly with the new mutations, is that the Covid complications and hospitalizations are now affecting younger people.  In fact younger people are now making up larger % of the people being hospitalized for Covid.

One would have to wonder if a retrospective study, like the one above from Cambridge, done a year from today, would show results that are skewed lower in age, which might be logical, based on the younger ages being hospitalized due to the mutated strains of Covid.  We all know that death is actually a lagging indicator, trailing hospitalizations by nearly a month on average.  Just like hospitalizations are a lagging indicator, trailing infections by approximately 2 weeks.


----------



## Melensdad

Simple plain speak.  Refreshing to hear.  

I do believe the data he is using on mask is incomplete.  Using metadata shows his analysis correct, but, as we have discussed here, there are many factors with masks and mask usage.  Some masks actually work, some are simply face coverings that comply with laws.  Education on mask type, qualify and effectiveness is non-existent as is there an absolute lack of mask handing education.

That said many of us have pointed out that it is silly to forbid shopping at the locally owned-independent stores while allowing congregation in the national super stores like WalMart to persist.









						Why Hardly Anyone Trusts The Virus Experts - DollarCollapse.com
					

No one trusts the virus experts any more. The reasons are many, but the root cause looks like Big Pharma profits.




					www.dollarcollapse.com
				





Why Hardly Anyone Trusts The Virus Experts​by John Rubino ◆ January 17, 2021 7 Comments
Early in the pandemic, “trust the science!” could actually be used in a debate without attracting derisive laughter. But as the flip-flops, mistakes and, yes, lies have accumulated, a consensus seems to be forming that the health care authorities are no more trustworthy than the people running Congress or the Fed.

For proof, let’s start with vitamin D, which sure seems to lessen the severity of coronavirus infections. As the chart below illustrates (couldn’t find the source, but google “covid vitamin D” and you’ll find lots of studies that track with this data), people with higher levels of vitamin D in their bloodstream tend to experience covid-19 as a non-event while people low levels found the infection life-threatening.






There are obvious questions about causality here, so calling vitamin D a “cure” is going way too far. *But if it has even a marginal effect – and the data suggest considerably more — a rational government would, you’d think, be handing out vitamin D like Halloween candy.* In fact, since we’re mandating/prohibiting all kinds of other behaviors, we might expect vitamin D consumption to be _required_ along with masks and social distancing.

Even covid-czar Anthony Fauci recently said: “If you are deficient in vitamin D, that does have an impact on your susceptibility to infection. So I would not mind recommending — and I do it myself — taking vitamin D supplements.”

So why aren’t family-sized bottles of vitamin D arriving in the mail from the CDC? *A cynic might wonder if the fact that Big Pharma doesn’t make much money from cheap, widely available supplements plays a role in the government’s apparent lack of interest.*

Now about those lockdowns. Tom Woods has been producing charts that appear to show virtually no difference in virus outcomes between US states with aggressive lockdown policies and those without. California, for instance, has shuttered most of its small businesses and imposed widespread curfews, while Florida hasn’t. Here’s the result:






As for the rest of the world – where they’re supposedly doing better than the US – the pattern of zero correlation between lockdowns and virus spread seems to be holding. France imposed a full national lockdown in March – after which the virus spiked. Then they added mask mandates (indoor _and_ outdoor), with fines attached. And daily new cases soared.






Then of course there’s the lying. Dr. Fauci first claimed that masks don’t help – when he believed they did help — because he feared mask shortages for health care workers. He also admits to changing the official line on herd immunity according to what he thinks we’re ready to hear.

And, in what sounds more like incompetence than dishonesty, he’s apparently been answering the question “when will life go back to normal?” with whatever pops into his head at the time. In early 2020, it was the coming Autumn. In July, it was “a year or so.” More recently it’s “well into 2021.”

But the biggest and by far the most outrageous reason for this growing mistrust has to be the World Health Organization which, well, read for yourself:



> WHO official urges world leaders to stop using lockdowns as primary virus control method​The World Health Organization’s special envoy on COVID-19 urged world leaders this week to stop “using lockdowns as your primary control method.”
> “We in the World Health Organization do not advocate lockdowns as the primary means of control of this virus,” Dr. David Nabarro said to The Spectator’s Andrew Neil. “The only time we believe a lockdown is justified is to buy you time to reorganize, regroup, rebalance your resources, protect your health workers who are exhausted, but by and large, we’d rather not do it.”
> Nabarro went on to point out several of the negative consequences lockdowns have caused across the world, including devastating tourism industries and increased hunger and poverty.
> “Just look at what’s happened to the tourism industry in the Caribbean, for example, or in the Pacific because people aren’t taking their holidays,” he said. “Look what’s happened to smallholder farmers all over the world. … Look what’s happening to poverty levels. It seems that we may well have a doubling of world poverty by next year. We may well have at least a doubling of child malnutrition.”
> In the United States, lockdowns have been tied to increased thoughts of suicide from children, a surge in drug overdoses, an uptick in domestic violence, and a study conducted in May concluded that stress and anxiety from lockdowns could destroy seven times the years of life that lockdowns potentially save.


The health care establishment could have saved a lot of time — and embarrassment — by just asking regular people about this stuff.  But then they would have made a lot less money.​


----------



## Ceee

Melensdad said:


> Simple plain speak.  Refreshing to hear.
> 
> I do believe the data he is using on mask is incomplete.  Using metadata shows his analysis correct, but, as we have discussed here, there are many factors with masks and mask usage.  Some masks actually work, some are simply face coverings that comply with laws.  Education on mask type, qualify and effectiveness is non-existent as is there an absolute lack of mask handing education.
> 
> That said many of us have pointed out that it is silly to forbid shopping at the locally owned-independent stores while allowing congregation in the national super stores like WalMart to persist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why Hardly Anyone Trusts The Virus Experts - DollarCollapse.com
> 
> 
> No one trusts the virus experts any more. The reasons are many, but the root cause looks like Big Pharma profits.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dollarcollapse.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​​Why Hardly Anyone Trusts The Virus Experts​
> by John Rubino ◆ January 17, 2021 7 Comments​Early in the pandemic, “trust the science!” could actually be used in a debate without attracting derisive laughter. But as the flip-flops, mistakes and, yes, lies have accumulated, a consensus seems to be forming that the health care authorities are no more trustworthy than the people running Congress or the Fed.​​For proof, let’s start with vitamin D, which sure seems to lessen the severity of coronavirus infections. As the chart below illustrates (couldn’t find the source, but google “covid vitamin D” and you’ll find lots of studies that track with this data), people with higher levels of vitamin D in their bloodstream tend to experience covid-19 as a non-event while people low levels found the infection life-threatening.​​
> 
> ​There are obvious questions about causality here, so calling vitamin D a “cure” is going way too far. *But if it has even a marginal effect – and the data suggest considerably more — a rational government would, you’d think, be handing out vitamin D like Halloween candy.* In fact, since we’re mandating/prohibiting all kinds of other behaviors, we might expect vitamin D consumption to be _required_ along with masks and social distancing.​​Even covid-czar Anthony Fauci recently said: “If you are deficient in vitamin D, that does have an impact on your susceptibility to infection. So I would not mind recommending — and I do it myself — taking vitamin D supplements.”​​So why aren’t family-sized bottles of vitamin D arriving in the mail from the CDC? *A cynic might wonder if the fact that Big Pharma doesn’t make much money from cheap, widely available supplements plays a role in the government’s apparent lack of interest.*​​Now about those lockdowns. Tom Woods has been producing charts that appear to show virtually no difference in virus outcomes between US states with aggressive lockdown policies and those without. California, for instance, has shuttered most of its small businesses and imposed widespread curfews, while Florida hasn’t. Here’s the result:​​
> 
> ​As for the rest of the world – where they’re supposedly doing better than the US – the pattern of zero correlation between lockdowns and virus spread seems to be holding. France imposed a full national lockdown in March – after which the virus spiked. Then they added mask mandates (indoor _and_ outdoor), with fines attached. And daily new cases soared.​​
> 
> ​Then of course there’s the lying. Dr. Fauci first claimed that masks don’t help – when he believed they did help — because he feared mask shortages for health care workers. He also admits to changing the official line on herd immunity according to what he thinks we’re ready to hear.​​And, in what sounds more like incompetence than dishonesty, he’s apparently been answering the question “when will life go back to normal?” with whatever pops into his head at the time. In early 2020, it was the coming Autumn. In July, it was “a year or so.” More recently it’s “well into 2021.”​​But the biggest and by far the most outrageous reason for this growing mistrust has to be the World Health Organization which, well, read for yourself:​​​The health care establishment could have saved a lot of time — and embarrassment — by just asking regular people about this stuff.  But then they would have made a lot less money.​​


"Then of course there’s the lying. Dr. Fauci first claimed that masks don’t help – when he believed they did help — because he feared mask shortages for health care workers. He also admits to changing the official line on herd immunity according to what he thinks we’re ready to hear.

And, in what sounds more like incompetence than dishonesty, he’s apparently been answering the question “when will life go back to normal?” with whatever pops into his head at the time. In early 2020, it was the coming Autumn. In July, it was “a year or so.” More recently it’s “well into 2021.”
-------

*I don't want this comment to get all political*.  Fauci is pretty much a goner.  I'm hoping this new woman will tell it like it is.  I'd much rather just hear the truth, face it, and deal with it than for someone to try and sugarcoat it so as not to scare people.   I'm still going to wear a mask when I go out.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

We've had 3 more deaths since yesterday but overall numbers are down. Two of the deaths occurred at the same nursing home where there was an outbreak in November. So far, they've had 25 deaths in a 158 bed facility.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Melensdad said:


> I'm not sure what this post is trying to point out?
> 
> Is it that the deaths are primarily older people?


Old people and people with comorbidities.   We need to be realistic about these statistics and the fear mongering that is being used to advanced political agendas.

But in two or so days, it will all be roses, unicorns, and rainbows.  Miraculously, we will quickly stop hearing about Covid and the news will be littered with reports of gun violence and how we need to round up all you evil domestic terrorists.


----------



## Melensdad

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq said:


> Old people and people with comorbidities.   We need to be realistic about these statistics and the fear mongering that is being used to advanced political agendas.


You will notice I rarely talk about DEATHS because I do believe that the media is hyping deaths.

Most of my focus has been on the stress to the overall healthcare system and the complications that seem to be unreported/under reported.  I've tried to do a fair bit of posting on alternate treatments too.

I do that because I think those are not political issues.


----------



## Lenny

Melensdad said:


> ​For proof, let’s start with vitamin D, which sure seems to lessen the severity of coronavirus infections. As the chart below illustrates (couldn’t find the source, but google “covid vitamin D” and you’ll find lots of studies that track with this data), people with higher levels of vitamin D in their bloodstream tend to experience covid-19 as a non-event while people low levels found the infection life-threatening.​​​


I have a friend who is an orthopedic surgeon.  She swears by vitamin D for this and a lot of other things.


----------



## pirate_girl

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq said:


> But in two or so days, it will all be roses, unicorns, and rainbows.  Miraculously, we will quickly stop hearing about Covid and the news will be littered with reports of gun violence and how we need to round up all you evil domestic terrorists.


No it's not going to happen that fast.
It's true that covid cases and deaths are slowing WAY down.
Do I think a lot of it has been political since the beginning?
Yup.
But I got educated through the reals and science since then.


----------



## mla2ofus

pirate_girl said:


> No it's not going to happen that fast.
> It's true that covid cases and deaths are slowing WAY down.
> Do I think a lot of it has been political since the beginning?
> Yup.
> But I got educated through the reals and science since then.


But I believe it will still happen!!


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Nothing to see here ... no manipulation of the statistics for political agenda purposes ...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1351847163559436292


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Pneumonia & COVID death rates compared - bizarrely similar:









						Infowars Article
					

Infowars: There's a War on for your Mind!




					www.infowars.com


----------



## Melensdad

The U.S. mask order for travel being implemented by Biden will *apply to airports and planes, ships, intercity buses, trains and public transportation*. Travelers from abroad must furnish a negative COVID-19 test before departing for the U.S. and quarantine upon arrival. Biden has already mandated masks on federal property.

One of the actions with the highest potential impact is *a requirement that people arriving in the U.S. from other nations adhere to what have previously been unenforced quarantine guidelines from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.*​​The CDC suggests* international travelers get a second test for the virus within three to five days after arrival and that they stay at home or in isolation for seven days -- even if the test is negative.* For people who don’t get tested, it’s safest to isolate for 10 days, the CDC says.​


----------



## Ceee

Melensdad said:


> The U.S. mask order for travel being implemented by Biden will *apply to airports and planes, ships, intercity buses, trains and public transportation*. Travelers from abroad must furnish a negative COVID-19 test before departing for the U.S. and quarantine upon arrival. Biden has already mandated masks on federal property.
> 
> One of the actions with the highest potential impact is *a requirement that people arriving in the U.S. from other nations adhere to what have previously been unenforced quarantine guidelines from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.*​​The CDC suggests* international travelers get a second test for the virus within three to five days after arrival and that they stay at home or in isolation for seven days -- even if the test is negative.* For people who don’t get tested, it’s safest to isolate for 10 days, the CDC says.​


Do you think that's good or bad for the US?  I tend to think that's good for the US.  Yes, that's *a lot of restrictions*, but maybe those kinds of restrictions are what's good for the country right now.


----------



## Melensdad

I think we need better mask use not mandates about masks that will prove to be ineffective because people don’t know how to use or treat their masks, in addition to the fact that many have ineffective masks. 

Metadata is clearly showing that masks don’t work.  And the reality is they do, if proper masks are properly used.


----------



## Ceee

Melensdad said:


> I think we need better mask use not mandates about masks that will prove to be ineffective because people don’t know how to use or treat their masks, in addition to the fact that many have ineffective masks.
> 
> Metadata is clearly showing that masks don’t work.  And the reality is they do, if proper masks are properly used.


I see doctors and nurses wearing masks that look much like the paper ones that I've been using.  Maybe they're a higher grade than the ones that I bought from the big A and have been using.

Do you think these masks are proper and effective?  I'm just asking your opinion.  I'm not going to hold you to anything.
Kimberly-Clark N95 Pouch Respirator (53358), Made in U.S.A, Universal Size, 50 Respirators/Bag​


----------



## Melensdad

Ceee said:


> Kimberly-Clark N95 Pouch Respirator (53358), Made in U.S.A, Universal Size, 50 Respirators/Bag​


These are good masks.  Do not touch the inside with your hand.  They can be worn for 8 hours at a time.  Dry it out for 24 hours and reuse it for a total of 40 use hours.  Make sure it fully dries between uses.  Make sure it seals around your face as tightly as possible.


----------



## Ceee

Melensdad said:


> These are good masks.  Do not touch the inside with your hand.  They can be worn for 8 hours at a time.  Dry it out for 24 hours and reuse it for a total of 40 use hours.  Make sure it fully dries between uses.  Make sure it seals around your face as tightly as possible.


Thanks!


----------



## Colt Gomez

I know that this is not a political thread but is it just me who has noticed that Trump's supporters are not wearing masks. I still don't go outside without wearing and bringing my own alcohol/hand sanitizer. I feel like this people are not afraid to get the new variant of Covid and they are putting other people at risk.


----------



## EastTexFrank

I'm a Trump supporter and carry masks in my car along with hand sanitizer and anti-bacterial hand wipes.  You cant categorize 70 million people on the few people that you see that may not even be Trump supporters in the first place.  Generalizations like that are always dangerous.

When I go in to our little town I'm always shocked at the number of people who are not wearing masks.  I think that after almost a year many people have reached the "fuck it" stage and really don't care any more.  I'm old and at high risk and I do care.  If I find myself in the situation of being surrounded by people without masks, I leave.  They can make their choices but I can also make mine. 

I think that most of the things that Biden just mandated are already in place and have been for some time.  This is just more Democratic grandstanding and "holier than thou" behavior.  But, he said he was going to do it and he did it.  It's not going to make any difference. 

I just received a message from my son.  He is in Dubai and has had COVID for the last week.  He said that it was like a really bad flu for 5 days where he was pretty much useless and out of it.  He says that he's starting to feel better every day now so it's just a matter of time and rest.


----------



## pirate_girl




----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Owen Shroyer Shows How To Properly Wear A Mask:








						Owen Shroyer Shows How To Properly Wear A Mask
					

Owen properly demonstrates how face masks should be used.




					cantcensortruth.com


----------



## waybomb

Colt Gomez said:


> I know that this is not a political thread but is it just me who has noticed that Trump's supporters are not wearing masks. I still don't go outside without wearing and bringing my own alcohol/hand sanitizer. I feel like this people are not afraid to get the new variant of Covid and they are putting other people at risk.


So you are saying it's Trump supporters causing all this? If they are not wearing masks, then all the deaths and sickness must be Trump supporters, right? Mask wearers don;t get sick? Or were they wearing a mask and got sick?   
Oh, did you see Biden yesterday - no mask.


----------



## Melensdad

waybomb said:


> So you are saying it's Trump supporters causing all this? If they are not wearing masks, then all the deaths and sickness must be Trump supporters, right? Mask wearers don;t get sick? Or were they wearing a mask and got sick?
> Oh, did you see Biden yesterday - no mask.


Mask mandate applies to EVERYONE on federal lands except for the entitled class ... Biden, his press secretary, etc

Such a high level of hypocrisy that it’s just stunning

Meanwhile the UK government is now saying its new “Kent” strain is both significantly more contagious and it is also somewhat more deadly.  The UK remains under a fairly strict lockdown.


----------



## Melensdad

For whatever it is worth UNITED AIRLINES is the first major US employer which is pushing require proof of vaccination to *work* for their airline.  There will be other firms that will require vaccination to work.  This is just the tip of the iceberg for employees, not only in America, but around the world.  









						United Airlines CEO wants to make Covid vaccines mandatory for employees — and encourages other companies to do the same
					

United Airlines CEO wants to make Covid vaccines mandatory for the company's employees, a stance that differs from other airlines and sectors.




					www.cnbc.com
				





*----------------------------------------------------------*​

I found this article interesting.  Its got a summary of positive points and some of the mistakes too.  What we know, what we don't know.  What we got right and what we screwed up.  It's way to long to post here so I'll just give the link.









						A year into the Covid crisis, scientists explain what we learned — and what we got wrong
					

The first U.S. case of Covid-19 was reported Jan. 21, 2020, by the CDC. A year later, health experts reflect on the most important lessons learned.




					www.cnbc.com
				






*--------------------------------------------------------------*​ 
Some interesting analysis from the ZEROHEDGE folks.  It seems that Zero is reporting calm information while much of the media is in a panic.  If you want serious analysis for news, follow the link to ZeroHedge or bookmark their page.  They have been right about this virus for a year, long before other media sources took it seriously and they have been a calming voice when others were shrill.





__





						Zerohedge
					

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero




					www.zerohedge.com
				




​​Is It Almost Over: US Sees Record One-Day Drop In COVID Hospitalizations​
In the last few days - really since the BIden inauguration - we have seen declarations of victory over covid across the board, from the likes of Dr. Fauci who yesterday said that coronavirus infections may be about to hit a "plateau", to Wall Street, where Bank of America yesterday declared "The Beginning Of The End Of The COVID Crisis."​​In its chart of the day, BofA showed that the US is now clearly over the hump, with 142,000 COVID cases in the US on Monday, down 32% from the prior Monday with the seven day average also dropping to 209,000, down 16% from the peak on January 8th."​​

​​In another good sign, the bank said that "testing is increasing and the share of tests that come back positive is falling" and cheerfully adds that "It seems clear that an end to the holiday season, a modest increase in restrictions and a small increase in herd immunity is bending the COVID curve."​​

​​So is the beginning of covid's end truly nigh (coincidentally, just as Joe Biden walked into the White House)?​​It would appear that the answer is yes: as Goldman predicted last month, now that the US has administered 17.5 million vaccines and the pace has picked up to 6.4 million per week (19 per every 1000 people and almost 1million per day), Bloomberg today announced that Covid-19 hospitalizations in the U.S. *fell by the most ever on Thursday, *the latest sign that not only "relief may be coming to a health-care system that’s been fighting the virus for almost a year", but that the pandemic appears to finally be under control.​​Bloomberg cites the latest Covid Tracking Project data according to which, the number of people currently hospitalized with Covid dropped by 2,773 in a single day to 119,927, while the one-week drop of 9,020 was also a record, the data show. More importantly, the decrease is accelerating on a percentage basis.​​

​​To be sure, the absolute number of people with Covid-19 in hospitals is still extraordinarily high, and while the virus remains prevalent in much of the country, it is now following the hospitalization scenario laid out by Goldman...​​

​​... which said that "as vaccinations ramp with the targeted population we see the potential for significant further declines in US hospitalizations in the coming weeks" and in fact predicts no more covid-related hospitalizations in just a few months. The data also corroborates what we published in mid-December when we used Goldman's analysis when we explained "Why Covid Hospitalizations And Deaths Are About To Plunge."​​Meanwhile, as Bloomberg notes "the U.S. is also entering the second month of its vaccination push, with 18 million doses of the vaccine administered, or 5.62 people per 100, according to the Bloomberg Vaccine Tracker. Fauci has estimated that the U.S. needs to vaccinate more than 70% of its people to return to a degree of normalcy."​​Which means that between those Americans who already have natural immunity to covid (from having survived it) and those who will get the vaccine in the next several months, herd immunity should be a fact of life by the late spring (unless, of course, Fauci moves the goalposts again, or a new mutant strain with immunity to all vaccines mysteriously emerges in the next few weeks).​


----------



## Ceee

Melensdad said:


> For whatever it is worth UNITED AIRLINES is the first major US employer which is pushing require proof of vaccination to *work* for their airline. There will be other firms that will require vaccination to work. This is just the tip of the iceberg for employees, not only in America, but around the world.


Makes me wonder what happens to the young people who currently work for the airlines but have no way to get vaccinated because of limited supplies.  I like that United is trying to be safe, but I'm not so sure that taking away a bunch of people's jobs right now is the thing to do.  Maybe they've come up with a way to provide the vaccines for those current employees...who knows right now.

BTW, thanks for including some of the important info from some of the links in your posts.  Sometimes I click to read but it blocks me.


----------



## Melensdad

I doubt the airline will terminate people who do not yet qualify for the vaccine. Rather I believe they may terminate them if they refuse to get a vaccination when they are available to get one.  JMO


———————————————






__





						Zerohedge
					

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero




					www.zerohedge.com
				





A World Health Organization (WHO) adviser who previously worked under President Clinton and then-Senator Joe Biden has broken his silence over the origins of the COVID-19 pandemic.

Jamie Metzl - who served as Deputy Staff Director of the Foreign Relations Committee *under Biden*(2001-2003), after serving on the *National Security Council* (1997-1999) and the State Department (1999-2001) under Clinton, *waited until three days after Biden's inauguration* to tell the _Toronto Sun_that he thinks *COVID-19 was most likely an accidental lab leak in Wuhan*.





"There’s no irrefutable evidence," said the Kansas-born Metzl, a senior Atlantic Council fellow who was appointed to the WHO expert advisory committee on human genome editing in 2019. "There’s just more evidence and as more evidence arrives, the case for accidental lab leak, in my view, increases."


----------



## Melensdad

So much here fromZeroahedge that I’m posting the whole article.  Plenty of meat about the US in here too.





__





						Zerohedge
					

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero




					www.zerohedge.com
				





Europe Scrambles To Stretch COVID Jab Supplies As Global Cases Near 100MM: Live Updates​*Summary:*


Global cases near 100MM
Deaths 2.1MM
BoJo pushes more lockdowns
Vaccine makers may sell jabs directly to states
Bloomberg says nearly 57MM doses distributed
UK hospital population falls for 3rd day
German health minister expects 3MM vaccines delivered in Feb
* * *

Although the news has been buried, to a degree, by Joe Biden's inauguration and his flurry of executive orders this week intended to undo President Trump's legislative legacy, most Americans continue to fret about the efficacy of the Moderna and Pfizer-BioNTech vaccines, especially following word from Israel that their efficacy has been greatly exaggerated.

President Trump Lifting COVID Travel Ban On Europe, Brazil




Meanwhile, on a global scale, total cases are nearing 100MM, while deaths pass 2.1MM

A few days ago, we reported that nearly 2 dozen batches of spoiled vaccines accidentally ruined in transit by McKesson (or at least that was the official story) had caused tens of thousands of dosing delays in NYC, but elsewhere in the country as well, including across the state of California.

At the very least, now that the WHO has acknowledged that its PCR testing has been rendering millions of false positives due to over-amplification, the official data show that hospitalizations continue to decline across the country, suggesting that a team at Goldman calling for a trend reversal in hospitalizations (and, later on, deaths) may have been spot on.

Just days after the inauguration in the US, attention is turning back to Britain, where PM Boris Johnson continues to push more lockdowns, despite growing evidence they don't work, blaming a continuing surge in cases and deaths on the mutation.

As Pfizer said it would consider selling vaccines directly to the states as complaints about the federal plan (or, lack thereof, as Dr. Fauci claimed). A  doctor in the UK urging the government to remove some of its more complicate guidelines, which have caused widespread frustration from the public.

However, in an interesting twist, Gov. Cuomo acknowledged that the federal government was no longer the greatest obstacle for states like New York when it comes to meeting vaccination targets:  Instead, skeptical Black and Latino residents - purportedly those who have borne most of the suffering tied to COVID have seen the highest rates of refusal.

A group of doctors in the UK has urged the government to review the 12 weeks required for people to receive a second dose of the vaccine produced by Pfizer. *The manufacturer suggests 21 days, but France’s top health authority recommends doubling that three-week gap as a way to stretch supplies and speed inoculations.

Of course, that wouldn't exactly be great for Pfizer's bottom line...*

As Europe continues to struggle to overcome the delays on the vaccine front, it's becoming increasingly apparent that the "official projections" release by Chancellor Merkel, the Bank of England and myriad other institutions across Europe are essentially worthless (shocker).





*And instead of waiting for their allotments of the AstraZeneca vaccine, *Hungary yesterday became the first EU member to strike a deal to circumvent Brussels. And judging by grumblings in Italy, Poland and elsewhere, *it won't be the last. *

According to the Bloomberg Vaccine Tracker, 56.7MM doses in 52 countries have been administered. The latest rate was roughly 2.85 million doses a day, on average. Vaccinations in the U.S. began Dec. 14 with health-care workers, and so far 18.4 million shots have been given, according to a state-by-state tally by Bloomberg and data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. In the last week, an average of 939,973 doses per day were administered. The UK is the jab leader in the West, with 5.8 doled out by Saturday.

*Here's a roundup of COVID news on Saturday:*


People being treated for Covid-19 in U.K. hospitals fell for a third day, to 37,899 on Jan. 21. Another 33,552 positive cases were reported on Saturday, about 5,000 below the average over the previous seven days. Deaths were above the weekly average at 1,348. More than 5.86 million people have received a first dose of vaccine.
A day after saying New York was running out vaccines, Governor Andrew Cuomo said the coming week’s supply has begun to arrive from the federal government -- and he encouraged hesitant minorities to take it.
German Health Minister Jens Spahn said he expects 3MM vaccine doses to be delivered to the country in February, despite production problems by AstraZeneca.
* * *

Still, while Moderna and Pfizer have had their share of "logistical problems" in the US, a second coronavirus vaccine manufacturer has warned of supply issues to the European Union, compounding frustration in the bloc. AstraZeneca said a production problem meant the number of initial doses available would be lower than expected. The fresh blow comes after some nations' inoculation programmes were slowed due to a cut in deliveries of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine


----------



## Melensdad

And the new variant of Covid may make the US infection rate skyrocket despite the fact that we are finally ramping up vaccinations because it appears to be moving faster (in other nations) than we can move to vaccinate.


----------



## Melensdad

And one of several new studies about Covid and its affects on healthy young athletes.  This from Vanderbilt.  I’ve seen a lot more about Heart and Lung issues lately. Very little about Covid Brain.  









						Post-COVID MRI reveals basketball player’s heart condition
					

Two days after Vanderbilt Commodores women’s basketball guard Demi Washington completed her 10-day isolation for COVID-19, she underwent a cardiac magnetic resonance imaging test (MRI). It was an extra step that may have saved Washington’s life.




					news.vumc.org


----------



## NorthernRedneck

We now have an outbreak at our local district jail as well as the minimum security prison outside the city. And more cases at the same nursing home. They have been vaccinating all the staff and patients at all the local nursing homes. A little late for the one with the outbreak that has claimed 23 lives since November.


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> Mask mandate applies to EVERYONE on federal lands except for the entitled class ... Biden, his press secretary, etc
> 
> Such a high level of hypocrisy that it’s just stunning
> 
> Meanwhile the UK government is now saying its new “Kent” strain is both significantly more contagious and it is also somewhat more deadly.  The UK remains under a fairly strict lockdown.


So where is the end with moving goal posts, here in Ca. we now have COVID 20, I'm already hearing just because there is a vaccine it doesn't mean the end of masks and masks are a better than a vaccine.


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> *So where is the end with moving goal posts,* here in Ca. we now have COVID 20, I'm already hearing just because there is a vaccine it doesn't mean the end of masks and masks are a better than a vaccine.



Good question.

So far, from the research I see, the vaccine is still expected to be effective against the new variants of Covid.  So the key will be to get to Herd Immunity via a combination of vaccines and the % of previously infected people.  Once we get that combination up to an unknown %_ (numbers seem to vary between 70%-80% of the population who have gotten either the vaccine or the virus) _then we will see this fade away.  Or so I gather.  

Of course nobody actually knows.  What we do know is that there is a disease that is real.  We also know there is a political group that is doing what they can to use the disease to control people.  We live in interesting times.  I'll be curious to see how this all plays out.


----------



## FrancSevin

Melensdad said:


> Good question.
> 
> So far, from the research I see, the vaccine is still expected to be effective against the new variants of Covid.  So the key will be to get to Herd Immunity via a combination of vaccines and the % of previously infected people.  Once we get that combination up to an unknown %_ (numbers seem to vary between 70%-80% of the population who have gotten either the vaccine or the virus) _then we will see this fade away.  Or so I gather.
> 
> Of course nobody actually knows.  What we do know is that there is a disease that is real.  We also know there is a political group that is doing what they can to use the disease to control people.  We live in interesting times.  I'll be curious to see how this all plays out.


...."How this plays out?"

A pretty good guess would be the loss of more freedoms, supposedly for the better interest of a free people.


----------



## Melensdad

FrancSevin said:


> ...."How this plays out?"
> 
> A pretty good guess would be the loss of more freedoms, supposedly for the better interest of a free people.


Perhaps in some nations.  Perhaps in overthrows in others.  Perhaps in peaceful regime changes in some.


----------



## pirate_girl

I get my second vax jab on Tuesday.
I'll let y'all know if I have the reaction that some are reporting.
Yay...


----------



## EastTexFrank

pirate_girl said:


> I get my second vax jab on Tuesday.
> I'll let y'all know if I have the reaction that some are reporting.
> Yay...



We're still waiting for our first.  Sometimes living in the backwoods has it's disadvantages.  Most of the vaccine distributions, when they come, seem to be focused on the larger centers of population.  We'll just have to wait and carry on carrying on.  

Actually it seems to be pretty rampant around here just now, especially after Christmas and New Years.  We're having 300 - 400 new cases a week being reported and that's a lot for a small rural county.  Also, as Melensdad mentioned, I'm hearing a lot more about people who have recovered from COVID but are still suffering from lung disease, fatigue and muscle pain.


----------



## Melensdad

Still waiting for our first too.  Currently Indiana has an age cut off at 70 but is projected to drop it to 60 soon.  I hope very soon.  Indiana is doing a pretty good job with vaccinating it’s population.


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> Good question.
> 
> So far, from the research I see, the vaccine is still expected to be effective against the new variants of Covid.  So the key will be to get to Herd Immunity via a combination of vaccines and the % of previously infected people.  Once we get that combination up to an unknown %_ (numbers seem to vary between 70%-80% of the population who have gotten either the vaccine or the virus) _then we will see this fade away.  Or so I gather.
> 
> Of course nobody actually knows.  What we do know is that there is a disease that is real.  We also know there is a political group that is doing what they can to use the disease to control people.  We live in interesting times.  I'll be curious to see how this all plays out.


The problem I see coming is like the yearly flu it has mutated. Historically flu vaccines are around 70% effective due to it, so if it mutates every year and we are constantly chasing the mutation with a vaccine,( right now the experts say the vaccine will still work on the current mutation ) but at some point everyone is going to have to accept that like the yearly flu we are going to have the yearly COVID. I hope it mutates to a milder form.


----------



## pirate_girl

Religious Offerings: Sisters of Mercy grateful to receive vaccines
					

Retired Sisters of Mercy are grateful to be receiving coronavirus vaccines. Mercy Health recently sent a team to the St. Bernadine Home in Fremont to ...




					www.toledoblade.com
				




❤


----------



## pirate_girl

Merck ends COVID vaccine program, cites inferior immune responses
					

Drugmaker Merck & Co said on Monday it would stop development of its two COVID-19 vaccines and focus pandemic research on treatments, with initial data on an experimental oral antiviral expected by the end of March.




					www.reuters.com


----------



## Melensdad

Uh oh!


Moderna Vaccine Not Effective Against "Mutant" South African COVID Strain, But Works With UK Variant​BY TYLER DURDEN
MONDAY, JAN 25, 2021 - 9:31
Moderna's latest trial data includes some good news...and some bad news.
The good news is that the biotech company's original COVID jab is effective against two mutations of SARS-CoV-2 which were first isolated in the UK and South Africa, respectively.

The bad news is that, at least when it comes to the South African variant, *Moderna's jab is much less effective than scientists had expected. That's a bad sign, because it suggests the vaccines might not perform as well, particularly in elderly patients,* or that the immunity they provide might not last as long, as various strains of the virus continue to mutate.

...

Here's some more details from the FT:



> Laboratory tests show Moderna’s Covid-19 jab still works against the variant named 501.V2, which emerged in South Africa, and B.1.1.7, which was first discovered in the UK, the company said. *But it warned that the neutralising antibody response to 501.V2 was sixfold lower than to the original variant, raising concerns that immunity to it may wane significantly, particularly in older people.*







__





						Zerohedge
					

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero




					www.zerohedge.com


----------



## Melensdad

Good video from Dr John Campbell today.

New variant may be more deadly according to a Biden transition team doctor. 

Already established it is more contagious.

Dr Campbell issues a warning that roughly 6 weeks from now the US and Canada will be facing a serious Covid crisis due to the new variant.  It i the strongest warning I've heard from him thus far.  His reports have been typically more accurate than not so it seems replan for this and stay healthy.


----------



## pirate_girl

??

Wow...









						Birx says there was no "full-time team" working on COVID response in Trump White House
					

"There was no team, full-time team in the White House working on coronavirus," Birx told "Face the Nation."




					www.cbsnews.com
				





_Washington — _Dr. Deborah Birx, the former White House coronavirus response coordinator under former President Donald Trump, revealed that she had no full-time team in the White House working on the response to COVID-19 under the former president.


----------



## mla2ofus

I'm sorry.PG, but I've come to believe the dr's in the white house and other places dealing with the virus caught a transmissible disease. LYING!!


----------



## Melensdad

I just got my 1st jab.  

we were on a waiting list.  Got a call.  Made it before they closed.


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> I just got my 1st jab.
> 
> we were on a waiting list.  Got a call.  Made it before they closed.


Sounds like you will be ok, you just have to make sure to get the China or UK strain and not the South African one.


----------



## pirate_girl

Melensdad said:


> I just got my 1st jab.
> 
> we were on a waiting list.  Got a call.  Made it before they closed.


I'm feeling a bit apprehensive about getting the second dose tomorrow, given some of the reactions I've been hearing about.
But I'm going to do it anyhow.


----------



## Melensdad

I got the Moderna.  It’s what was available. I took it.  My arm is already sore, but I’m sort of wimpy and complain a lot.  I’d have preferred the Pfizer but I’d have to wait, possibly until mid-late March.  Not worth waiting.  

I’m not worried about the 2nd dose causing a reaction.


----------



## pirate_girl

2nd dose done an hour ago.
Now I'm DONE with COVID-19.
Our facility has been free now for quite some time, I'm not hearing anything more about actual cases in the area.
I suspect within the next few months it's going to disappear just.like.that.


----------



## EastTexFrank

I'm still waiting for the first.  It looks as if it may be well in to March before it happens.  Still hanging tough.


----------



## Melensdad

pirate_girl said:


> 2nd dose done an hour ago.
> *Now I'm DONE with COVID-19.*
> Our facility has been free now for quite some time, I'm not hearing anything more about actual cases in the area.
> I suspect within the next few months it's going to disappear just.like.that.


Did they say when you will actually have a high level of immunity?  

I'm hearing its about 3 weeks from the date of the 2nd shot but I'd like confirmation.


----------



## Melensdad

EastTexFrank said:


> I'm still waiting for the first.  It looks as if it may be well in to March before it happens.  Still hanging tough.



Get on a waiting list.  Do they do that in Texas.

I'm 60 and my state vaccinates people over 70.  But if there are extra doses at the end of the day that are thawed out, rather than waste them the clinics call people on their waiting lists.  First come first served.  If you get a call and can't make it they go to the next person on the list.  Anything is better than dumping the vaccine in the trash at the end of the day.  Once it is thawed it MUST be used or it MUST be discarded.  So all the clinics here will have a few doses left over because someone didn't show, etc.  There were at least 5 extra doses yesterday at the clinic where we got our shots.  I'd guess there was more like 15 'extra' doses that were given out, but I was able to confirm a least 5 just through casual conversation.

That is how we got ours.  Got a call at 3:05pm yesterday.  Had to be at the clinic by 3:50 on the other side of the county.  I'm not going to admit that I did 90mph on the interstate to make it in time but I will say we pulled into the lot with 1 minute to spare.


----------



## pirate_girl

Melensdad said:


> Did they say when you will actually have a high level of immunity?
> 
> I'm hearing its about 3 weeks from the date of the 2nd shot but I'd like confirmation.


10 days - 2 weeks.
I think I've already had a high level of immunity.
I mean every person practically got it, except for like less than 10 of us staff members.
That said, since the mask wearing I've not had my usual bad respiratory infection this year either.
Hmmm ?


----------



## EastTexFrank

Melensdad said:


> Get on a waiting list.  Do they do that in Texas.



Yes they do.  We are on two waiting lists.  We registered as soon as we heard about it but there were still thousands ahead of us.  The third is administered by NETHEALTH, which is the North East Texas Public Health District.  They announce an incoming shipment of vaccine and you have to wait until they open registration next day to try to get on their list.  You have to be waiting, type fast and hit enter to have any chance.  Their list fills up in 5 minutes.  We almost made it on that one today ... but not quite.  

It'll just take time but we'll eventually float to the surface.  It is a little frustrating though.


----------



## Melensdad

We were on a list for 8 days and got the call.  

Apparently some places in our area the waiting list is very long, in other places its much shorter.  

Honesty I think we just got lucky.


----------



## EastTexFrank

I'm glad for you.


----------



## Doc

I've searched but as far as I can tell there is no waiting list for the covid shot for us buckeyes.   They are only giving shots to those over 75 as far as I know.   It was 80 last week and they lowered it to 75 I think.    Our son and his wife had covid a few weeks ago, around the 1st.  Now our granddaughter who is 13 and lives in Cols has it.  So far her parents have tested negative for covid.   Still seems to be going strong from friends and relatives I hear of with covid.   Glad it's clearing up around your area PG.


----------



## Melensdad

President Biden is hoping that that the USA will get up to 1.5 Million vaccinations per day.  We have exceeded 1 M per day for 4 out of the past 8 days.  The average is slightly below 1 M per day.

Dr Fauci is very worried about the SOUTH AFRICAN variant of Covid as the mutation seems to be very different than the other variations of the virus.  The S.A. variant is far more contagious than any of the other variants and there is growing evidence it is somewhat more lethal than the original Covid and the other variants.  That is still not proven but evidence is mounting.

With a higher infection rate, and with multiple variants now circulating in the US, it is estimated that "herd immunity" will kick in about 80%.  There has been much controversy over the Fauci statements about the levels needed for herd immunity.  But I think there is enough science out there that 80% seems to be a good enough number to talk about.  Honestly, for us folks on the street if its 75 or 85 it is really inconsequential.  The US currently has about 20% of the population who have been infected & recovered, and about 0.5% who have had 2 vaccine injections.  Probably another 1 to 2% have gotten 1 of their vaccinations.  So any way we look at it, we are a very long way from herd immunity, no matter if you think the herd immunity kicks in at 50%, 60%, 70% or higher.

California & Illinois are REOPENING parts of their states just as the new, more infectious South African and Kent/UK variants are beginning to become more prevalent.  It is likely there would be some civil unrest in some areas due to lockdowns as people are starting to revolt over the lockdowns, some out of desperation.

A new drug is now showing it can stop covid infections.  I can't find the name of it, but it was showcased on WGN9 TV news this morning, the initial study was nearly 100% successful in stopping spread inside families/households where at least 1 person was diagnosed with Covid.


----------



## pirate_girl

Doc said:


> I've searched but as far as I can tell there is no waiting list for the covid shot for us buckeyes.   They are only giving shots to those over 75 as far as I know.   It was 80 last week and they lowered it to 75 I think.    Our son and his wife had covid a few weeks ago, around the 1st.  Now our granddaughter who is 13 and lives in Cols has it.  So far her parents have tested negative for covid.   Still seems to be going strong from friends and relatives I hear of with covid.   Glad it's clearing up around your area PG.


Henry county just put an announcement in our local paper that the health department has stopped new appointments for those needing the vaccine.
Daddy DeWine has said that the curfew will END if the numbers stay as low as they have been.


----------



## pirate_girl

DeWine announces guidelines to ease, eventually lift statewide curfew
					

The curfew is now in place until from 10 p.m. until 5 a.m. every night until Jan. 30.




					www.10tv.com


----------



## pirate_girl

Health department halts making new COVID-19 vaccine appointments
					

The Henry County Health Department is temporarily halting making new appointments for the COVID-19 vaccine.




					www.northwestsignal.net


----------



## pirate_girl

My arm hurts to lift it.
That's it.
No headache, no body aches, no dizziness, no nausea, no temp.
?


----------



## Melensdad

The trend among states to reopen is problematic.  I believe they should have reopened some time ago.  But now with the U.K. and S.A. variants we should reconsider a lot of precautions.  But given that so many are broke and weary of lockdowns and mandates it’s not a politically opportune time to ask for cooperation.  People are fed up with cooperation, their businesses are bankrupt, jobs are lost and homes are going into foreclosure because the states waited too long.  But we may be on the cusp of a wave larger than anything we’ve faced and people need to be free so despite the virus even liberal states are ignoring science.







						US States Ease Lockdowns Despite "Mutant" COVID 'Boogeymen' | ZeroHedge
					

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero




					www.zerohedge.com
				



​​US States Ease Lockdowns Despite "Mutant" COVID 'Boogeymen'​
Even as President Joe Biden challenges Americans to a "100 day masking challenge" and other mask-related restrictions on federal land, some of the biggest states in the US  (including ultra-liberal California and swing-state Michigan, among others) are going their own way, resisting calls from the Biden administration to go heavy with masks and lockdowns, which have - as we've noted, seemingly made *no difference and lack scientific basis*.​​

​​Perhaps it has something to do with the WHO's admission that *PCR overamplification may have led to the "Case-Demic"* that "conspiracy theorists have long warned about.​​But whatever the case may be, recently, liberal governors like New York's Andrew Cuomo appeared to recognize that the economy needs to reopen, and quickly. Even Cuomo acknowledges that the holiday spike is fading.​​

​​Notably, *the spike in cases from the pre-holiday period is already beginning to subside*. This, coupled with all of those warnings about a post-holiday case surge, had led to suspicions that the American public has been gaslighted - or at least intentionally misled, by federal authorities intent on doing whatever they can to tarnish President Trump's legacy.​​Meanwhile, and possibly related, vaccination rates worldwide aren't off to a great start - while reports of healthcare professionals and others who refuse to take it have been rolling in.​​

​​Yet, *despite liberal leaders' sudden post-inauguration interest in reopening, they seem to be ignoring the new boogeyman - the new "mutated" strains from the UK and South Africa*, which have caused a good deal of panic among public health officials (whether warranted or not).​​And since the US has administered fewer than 25MM vaccines, more of these COVID "variants" are setting off alarms - causing vaccine maker Moderna announcing the development of a 'booster' shot to protect against both mutants.​​Teachers' unions, meanwhile, are increasingly opposed to lawmakers pushing to return to in-person instruction within 100 days.​​According to Northwestern University epidemiologist Sadiya Khan, who spoke with _Bloomberg_, "*We’re just asking to go backwards by easing restrictions without focusing on achieving herd immunity with vaccination.*" The doctor is an epidemiologist at the Northwestern University Feinberg School of Medicine in Chicago."*It’s very fragile*," she said referring to the COVID economy.​​Perhaps things would be less 'fragile' if Democratic leaders' sudden push to reopen didn't have the most suspicious timing in the known universe, and California (and other states) were more transparent about whose 'science' they're following.​​


----------



## EastTexFrank

As I have said earlier in this thread, the distribution of the vaccine to rural East Texas communities has been slow.  That may be beginning to change.  At least one County Judge, hopefully with others to follow, has petitioned the Governor to increase supplies.  The logic behind it is that rural counties have a larger percentage of elderly and retired people per capita than do the larger population centers.  That is certainly true of our county.  We'll see what happens.


----------



## pirate_girl

What???
?


----------



## Melensdad

I don't know why but when I checked on Tuesday, Indiana was in the top 10 states for vaccinating its citizens.  Technically we are only vaccinating people over 70 + first responders, critical workers, medical staff, etc..  But apparently we are somehow doing a pretty good job overall.  The governor announced he expects to lower the age to 65 soon.  Illinois, Michigan & Ohio all have vaccinated a lower % of their population than we have.  Again, I don't know why we are doing well, just know what the data showed on Tuesday when I took a look at it. 

I do know that TEXAS was actually THROWING AWAY the 'leftover' doses at the end of the day.  I understand that policy in Texas has changed and there are now formal waiting lists.  I was informed that ILLINOIS was also THROWING AWAY their 'leftover' doses at the end of the day.  I hope that policy has changed.   Honestly no clue what other states are doing.  I got information through relatives in those states.  

Here in Indiana you can sign up for a 'leftover dose' and if you are called by the clinic you must show up by a specified time to get it.  That is how the lovely Mrs_Bob and I got our doses.  As they ship and are stored frozen they have to be thawed each day.  The thawed doses must be used up or thrown away.  (_I know I'm repeating prior information_).  But here in Indiana the policy is that they inject those "leftover" doses into the arms of people on a 'wait' list.  Perhaps that is why Indiana is doing pretty well in terms of % vaccinated?

I'm curious if you folks in other states have current information about your state and if there are waiting lists or if they are dumping the excess into the garbage can.


----------



## Ceee

pirate_girl said:


> What???


Money???
Money talks


----------



## Melensdad

Ceee said:


> Money???
> Money talks


Since when do Catholic schools have money?   They have been closing down due to lack of funds all around the country.


----------



## Ceee

Melensdad said:


> Since when do Catholic schools have money?   They have been closing down due to lack of funds all around the country.


*If *you believe that happened, then why do you think that happened?  Money is the only reason I can come up with.  How else are they going to get the vaccine before they're supposed to?  I'm not trying to pick a fight or anything like that.  I'm just asking.


----------



## pirate_girl

I think Notre Dame Academy picked a provider ahead of time, so whether it was Promedica or Mercy Health, I've no clue.
Like was said in the link, at least people got vaccinated.


----------



## pirate_girl

9 retired nuns in Michigan die of COVID-19 after outbreak at retirement home
					

The retired nuns lived at the campus of the Adrian Dominican Sisters in Adrian, 75 miles southwest of Detroit.



					www.freep.com


----------



## Melensdad

Ceee said:


> *If *you believe that happened, then why do you think that happened?  Money is the only reason I can come up with.  How else are they going to get the vaccine before they're supposed to?  I'm not trying to pick a fight or anything like that.  I'm just asking.


IF I think WHAT happened?  

I don't even understand what you are saying.  But I doubt it will be money.

My guess is they contracted early with a health provider.  In many states teachers are considered front line workers and a top priority; I don't know if that is the case for this school in this state, but if so then they are actually entitled to the vaccine.  I know some of the Illinois school districts are vaccinating their staff/teachers.


----------



## pirate_girl

Yes Bob, they did.


----------



## Ceee

Melensdad said:


> I don't even understand what you are saying. But I doubt it will be money.


Let me clarify.  I should have said:
If you think they actually received the vaccine before they were actually supposed to, how do you think they were able to do that?

Anyway, the question has been answered.  Sorry for the misunderstanding.


----------



## Melensdad

Ceee said:


> Let me clarify.  I should have said:
> If you think they actually received the vaccine before they were actually supposed to, how do you think they were able to do that?
> 
> Anyway, the question has been answered.  Sorry for the misunderstanding.


If the state priorities put teachers in the same group as other 'front line' workers then I don't see how they got it "before they were supposed to" get it.  State's send out vaccine to authorized hospitals, clinics, etc.  Many of those medical groups cross multiple county lines with their locations.  Once a provider has it they dispense it to the people on their priority list.  

Teachers were on the priority list.

I guess I don't understand why anyone is making any sort of issue about this.



-------------------------------------------



Now much as we have tried to stay away from politics in this thread, and we have DONE A PRETTY GOOD JOB OF THAT, it is time to inject some obvious politics.

Despite a new threat from several more highly contagious varieties of Covid (Brazil, UK and South Africa) 
California, and despite record high hospitalizations and record low supplies, is OPENING FOR BUSINESS.  
New York, and despite all its issues, is OPENING FOR BUSINESS.
They both announced it shortly after Joe Biden was inagurated President.  


------------------------------------------


"It Just Doesn't Work As Expected" - Macron Questions Vaccine Credibility As EU Approves AstraZeneca Jab​A battle is raging in Europe over the safety of vaccines on Friday. As the EMA insists that the AstraZeneca's COVID vaccine was safe, before approving it for everyone over 18, *French President Emmanuel Macron has just expressed serious doubts about the jab's efficacy, just as Europe's second-largest economy is supposedly struggling to convince citizens to take the vaccine.*

Just before the EMA's expert committee unanimously recommended the vaccine to be used on all adults over 18, concerns were raised this week that not enough data exist to prove that the vaccine works in older people, and those concerns were amplified by Macron, much to the chagrin of some fellow EU leaders.



> *"The real problem with AstraZeneca is just that it doesn’t work as expected, because there we have very little information," *Macron told a group of foreign reporters at the Elysée Palace on Friday.


----------



## pirate_girl

Funeral home directors call on DeWine to give them COVID-19 vaccines
					

The state has no immediate plans to add these workers to the vaccination distribution list.




					www.wtol.com


----------



## Melensdad

And that Pfizer vaccine???


Rep. Stephen Lynch Tests Positive for COVID-19​The Massachusetts Democrat has received both doses of the Pfizer vaccine for coronavirus​By Mike Pescaro and Asher Klein • Published January 29, 2021 • Updated on January 29, 2021 at 11:42 pm​Rep. Stephen Lynch, D-Mass., has tested positive for COVID-19, his office announced Friday.

Lynch was tested for coronavirus after a staff member in his office tested positive earlier in the week. The congressman received his positive test Friday afternoon.

A statement from* Pfizer said that it can take seven days for protection from the second dose to kick in.* However, the statement from Lynch's office said *the congressman received the second dose vaccine before attending President Joe Biden's inauguration on Jan. 20, nine days before his positive test.*

Lynch also tested negative for COVID-19 prior to the inauguration....

*FULL STORY HERE -->* https://www.nbcboston.com/news/coronavirus/rep-stephen-lynch-tests-positive-for-covid-19/2288818/


----------



## Ceee

Ceee said:


> Kimberly-Clark N95 Pouch Respirator (53358), Made in U.S.A, Universal Size, 50 Respirators/Bag


If anybody is looking for face masks, these are really good masks.  I've worn them several times now, and they fit my face well.  I like these a lot better than what I've been wearing.  They're not pretty, and they're not cheap.  I'll go for not-so-pretty but better protected every time.


----------



## Melensdad

Good video from Dr John Campbell, talks about the new variant at the beginning and also risks for complications & hospitalization if you get covid.









Interesting summary of the cluster of government healthcare!





__





						Zerohedge
					

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero




					www.zerohedge.com
				





===============================================================​​Glitches Sabotage Vaccine Rollout Across US; EU Plays 'Hardball' As Battle For Doses Heats Up​​BY TYLER DURDEN​SUNDAY, JAN 31, 2021 - 17:25​​*Across the US., a vaccination campaign that was meant to reverse the tide of the pandemic and spur the nation’s economic recovery is getting bogged down by technical glitches and software woes. *Cash-strapped public health departments are trying to keep their websites from crashing while booking millions of appointments, tracking unpredictable inventory, and logging how many shots they give.​​*States are ignoring an IT system set up by the federal government at a cost of $44MM, and instead they're working with a hodge-podge of local systems that are constantly malfunctioning, causing massive delays in vaccinations.* In Mississippi, an online vaccine registration system failed during a sudden onslaught of traffic. Officials at a local health department in Georgia had to resort to counting every vaccine dose by hand before scheduling appointments.​​And as if that weren't enough, logistical issues from Pfizer, Moderna and McKesson have led to batches of doses being recalled for either being kept too cold, or too hot, while shipping.​​*Even in California, workers forgetting to click a "submit" button at the end of the day led to a major glitch in the undercounting of vaccines. *Similar incidents unfurled in Idaho and North Dakota.​​*Furthermore, gaps in the data could be distorting the national picture of how efficiently vaccines are being used, though this will become more clear as the bugs in the system get worked out. *​​For the past few weeks, Dr. Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus has been using his bully pulpit in Geneva, where he delivers his press briefings about the global COVID-19 crisis, to *slam the West for its tremendous moral failing surrounding its failure to share vaccines with the developing world.*​​So far, the only two developed countries who have seen strong vaccination programs are the UK and Israel. In Israeli, the top Israeli fast-moving vaccination program, which has already reached a third of the population, is built on a bargain. The vaccine maker agreed to keep up the quick-time delivery of doses in the country in exchange for partial access to the vast database of information maintained by the country's national health-care system.  Already, researchers here and in other countries are getting their first look in Europe.​​Douglas Dowell, a pro-Europe commentator, highlighted the *EU’s claim that it was acting “to avert serious societal difficulties due to a lack of supply threatening to disturb the orderly implementation of vaccination campaigns in the member state." *​​*But others saw that the EU high command*, which had spent years insisting there could be no hard border on the island of Ireland, was effectively threatening to reestablish the border with the stroke of a pen if Brussels didn't manage to keep enough vaccines.​​In short, the insatiable demand for vaccines is showing the world that for all the humanistic rhetoric emanating from the West, *when the chips are down and the vaccine supplies are limited, the whole thing devolves into a knife fight.*​​​​=======================================================​​​​







						Why Some Who Are Vaccinated Still Get Coronavirus
					

Experts say cases like these are not surprising and do not indicate that there was something wrong with the vaccines or how they were administered.




					www.nytimes.com
				


Why Some Who Are Vaccinated Still Get Coronavirus​Jan. 31, 2021, 4:45 p.m. ET1 hour ago
The scattered reports from around the country can play like a cruel irony: Someone tests positive for the coronavirus even though they have already received one or both doses of a Covid-19 vaccine.
Notable examples​It’s happened to at least three members of Congress recently:

*Adriano Espaillat*, Democrat of New York.
*Stephen Lynch, *Democrat of Massachusetts.
*Lori Trahan*, another Massachusetts Democrat.
But it’s been reported in people in other walks of life too, including Rick Pitino, a Hall of Fame basketball coach, and a nurse in California.
How can that happen?​Experts say cases like these are not surprising and do not indicate that there was something wrong with the vaccines or how they were administered. Here is why.


*Vaccines don’t work instantly.* It takes a few weeks for the body to build up immunity after receiving a dose. And the vaccines now in use in the U.S., from Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna, both require a second shot a few weeks after the first to reach full effectiveness.
*Nor do they work retroactively.* You can already be infected and not know it when you get the vaccine — even if you recently tested negative. That infection can continue to develop after you get the shot but before its protection fully takes hold, and then show up in a positive test result.
*The vaccines prevent illness, but maybe not infection.* Covid vaccines are being authorized based on how well they keep you from getting sick, needing hospitalization and dying. Scientists don’t know yet how effective the vaccines are at preventing the coronavirus from infecting you to begin with, or at keeping you from passing it on to others. (That’s why vaccinated people should keep wearing masks and maintaining social distance.)
*Even the best vaccines aren’t perfect.* The efficacy rates for Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna vaccines are extremely high, but they are not 100 percent. With the virus still spreading out of control in the U.S., some of the millions of recently vaccinated people were bound to get infected in any case.


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> Good video from Dr John Campbell, talks about the new variant at the beginning and also risks for complications & hospitalization if you get covid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting summary of the cluster of government healthcare!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zerohedge
> 
> 
> ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.zerohedge.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ===============================================================​​Glitches Sabotage Vaccine Rollout Across US; EU Plays 'Hardball' As Battle For Doses Heats Up​​BY TYLER DURDEN​SUNDAY, JAN 31, 2021 - 17:25​​*Across the US., a vaccination campaign that was meant to reverse the tide of the pandemic and spur the nation’s economic recovery is getting bogged down by technical glitches and software woes. *Cash-strapped public health departments are trying to keep their websites from crashing while booking millions of appointments, tracking unpredictable inventory, and logging how many shots they give.​​*States are ignoring an IT system set up by the federal government at a cost of $44MM, and instead they're working with a hodge-podge of local systems that are constantly malfunctioning, causing massive delays in vaccinations.* In Mississippi, an online vaccine registration system failed during a sudden onslaught of traffic. Officials at a local health department in Georgia had to resort to counting every vaccine dose by hand before scheduling appointments.​​And as if that weren't enough, logistical issues from Pfizer, Moderna and McKesson have led to batches of doses being recalled for either being kept too cold, or too hot, while shipping.​​*Even in California, workers forgetting to click a "submit" button at the end of the day led to a major glitch in the undercounting of vaccines. *Similar incidents unfurled in Idaho and North Dakota.​​*Furthermore, gaps in the data could be distorting the national picture of how efficiently vaccines are being used, though this will become more clear as the bugs in the system get worked out. *​​For the past few weeks, Dr. Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus has been using his bully pulpit in Geneva, where he delivers his press briefings about the global COVID-19 crisis, to *slam the West for its tremendous moral failing surrounding its failure to share vaccines with the developing world.*​​So far, the only two developed countries who have seen strong vaccination programs are the UK and Israel. In Israeli, the top Israeli fast-moving vaccination program, which has already reached a third of the population, is built on a bargain. The vaccine maker agreed to keep up the quick-time delivery of doses in the country in exchange for partial access to the vast database of information maintained by the country's national health-care system.  Already, researchers here and in other countries are getting their first look in Europe.​​Douglas Dowell, a pro-Europe commentator, highlighted the *EU’s claim that it was acting “to avert serious societal difficulties due to a lack of supply threatening to disturb the orderly implementation of vaccination campaigns in the member state." *​​*But others saw that the EU high command*, which had spent years insisting there could be no hard border on the island of Ireland, was effectively threatening to reestablish the border with the stroke of a pen if Brussels didn't manage to keep enough vaccines.​​In short, the insatiable demand for vaccines is showing the world that for all the humanistic rhetoric emanating from the West, *when the chips are down and the vaccine supplies are limited, the whole thing devolves into a knife fight.*​​​​=======================================================​​​​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why Some Who Are Vaccinated Still Get Coronavirus
> 
> 
> Experts say cases like these are not surprising and do not indicate that there was something wrong with the vaccines or how they were administered.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> Why Some Who Are Vaccinated Still Get Coronavirus​Jan. 31, 2021, 4:45 p.m. ET1 hour ago
> The scattered reports from around the country can play like a cruel irony: Someone tests positive for the coronavirus even though they have already received one or both doses of a Covid-19 vaccine.
> Notable examples​It’s happened to at least three members of Congress recently:
> 
> *Adriano Espaillat*, Democrat of New York.
> *Stephen Lynch, *Democrat of Massachusetts.
> *Lori Trahan*, another Massachusetts Democrat.
> But it’s been reported in people in other walks of life too, including Rick Pitino, a Hall of Fame basketball coach, and a nurse in California.
> How can that happen?​Experts say cases like these are not surprising and do not indicate that there was something wrong with the vaccines or how they were administered. Here is why.
> 
> 
> *Vaccines don’t work instantly.* It takes a few weeks for the body to build up immunity after receiving a dose. And the vaccines now in use in the U.S., from Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna, both require a second shot a few weeks after the first to reach full effectiveness.
> *Nor do they work retroactively.* You can already be infected and not know it when you get the vaccine — even if you recently tested negative. That infection can continue to develop after you get the shot but before its protection fully takes hold, and then show up in a positive test result.
> *The vaccines prevent illness, but maybe not infection.* Covid vaccines are being authorized based on how well they keep you from getting sick, needing hospitalization and dying. Scientists don’t know yet how effective the vaccines are at preventing the coronavirus from infecting you to begin with, or at keeping you from passing it on to others. (That’s why vaccinated people should keep wearing masks and maintaining social distance.)
> *Even the best vaccines aren’t perfect.* The efficacy rates for Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna vaccines are extremely high, but they are not 100 percent. With the virus still spreading out of control in the U.S., some of the millions of recently vaccinated people were bound to get infected in any case.


looks like they don't work on democrats


----------



## Melensdad

From CNN, see the link for the full article.









						Maryland becomes 2nd state to report coronavirus variant first identified in South Africa | CNN
					

Maryland on Saturday became the second state to report a case of a coronavirus variant first identified in South Africa -- a strain that health experts say is more transmissible than previous ones.




					www.cnn.com
				




​​CDC says travelers must wear masks on all forms of public transportation ​
As the country watches for more-transmissible strains, it is about to require masks on public transportation.​​The CDC announced an order late Friday that *will require people to wear a face mask while using any form of public transportation, including buses, trains, taxis, airplanes, boats, subways or ride-share vehicles while traveling into, within and out of the US.*​​The order goes into effect at 11:59 p.m. Monday.​​Masks must be worn while waiting, boarding, traveling and disembarking, it said. The coverings need to be at least two or more layers of breathable fabric secured to the head with ties, ear loops or elastic bands -- and scarves and bandanas do not count, the order says.​...​The CDC said it* reserves the right to enforce the order through criminal penalties...*​​


----------



## EastTexFrank

The CDC said it* reserves the right to enforce the order through criminal penalties...*​​I'll be interested to see how that works out.  It seems like an authority/power grab in order to keep the CDC relevant because, Lord only knows, very few people give them credence any more.   ​


----------



## Melensdad

Well... here is more authoritarian BS.  Follow the link to the full story:









						TSA authorized to fine passengers who refuse to wear masks
					

The Transportation Security Administration (TSA) has been authorized to fine passengers who fail to comply with the new mask requirements on public transportation systems. The TSA will require…




					thehill.com
				





“Depending on the circumstance, those who refuse a mask may be subject to a civil penalty for attempting to circumvent screening requirements, interfering with screening personnel, or a combination of those offenses,” TSA announced on Sunday.

The mask requirement, a result of a new Centers for Disease Control and Prevention order requiring mask-wearing at transportation hubs, will remain effective until May 11.

It follows President Biden’s executive order Jan. 21 directing federal agencies to “immediately take action” to mandate the use of masks in airports, trains, intercity bus services and public maritime vessels such as ferries.


----------



## mla2ofus

It still makes me wonder how much of this is about public safety and how much is about control of the masses??


----------



## pirate_girl

mla2ofus said:


> It still makes me wonder how much of this is about public safety and how much is about control of the masses??


Much of it is about seeing just how far one will comply beyond what is practical.

That said, they can shove the double mask suggestion (rule?).

On the positive side, cases continue to drop daily.
Bank lobbies etc are opening back up.


----------



## mla2ofus

The new LA, Ca rule of no TV for outdoor dining during superbowl is just the latest example of testing how much control citizens will stand. The idiots don't realize they're forcing people to gather in large groups in homes which will be worse than outdoor dining. I agree with PG it's just testing for when they really want to push to determine how far they can go!!


----------



## EastTexFrank

To completely change the direction of the thread, my wife, Wonder Woman, got us an appointment to get our vaccine shots today.  She logged on to University of Texas Health just as they opened their registration page and she jumped right in.  We're due to get shot up at 6pm on Wednesday the 3rd.  At least this will start the process.  Strange!  Once the appointment was confirmed I felt a sense of relief.  I didn't feel or realize that I was stressed about it but I guess that I was.


----------



## Melensdad

I think a lot of it is about control.  A loss of civil liberties and a grab of government power.

I do *not* think the virus was engineered in a lab to* "reset"* the world by the *"new world order"* or the* "tech oligarchs"* or whoever.  I just think the virus (_which may have coincidently been engineered in a lab_) _*provided power grabbers the opportunity to test their powers*_ and grab more.

Liberal states like Illinois have been locked down much harder/longer than conservative states like Indiana.  Yet the disease, which I contend is *"real"* and which I also contend is NOT *"just like the flu" *seems to be hitting both states about the same, lots of people ended up in the hospital lots of people died.  However the people in Indiana seem far _better off_ than those in my neighboring state of Illinois.  I see fewer permanently closed businesses.  Fewer lives shattered by financial collapse and permanent job losses.  Both states were shut down but Indiana re-opened months earlier and the lockdowns were less severe in Indiana.  Real estate in my part of Indiana is actually very hot right now.  I can't speak for the rest of the state, but along the norther border with Illinois we are seeing high prices, especially on the suburban and rural properties.

Now, when if we "follow the science" we have 2 new more contagious strains + 1 new President and what do we see but the liberal states like Illinois, New York and California are pushing to RE-OPEN their businesses.  Coincidence?  Or just proving the skeptics were correct all along and much of this is about 'control' of humans?

*I believe we can, rationally, believe BOTH that this is a REAL disease AND it was used against freedom by corrupt politicians.*




EastTexFrank said:


> To completely change the direction of the thread, my wife, Wonder Woman, got us an appointment to get our vaccine shots today.  She logged on to University of Texas Health just as they opened their registration page and she jumped right in.  We're due to get shot up at 6pm on Wednesday the 3rd.  At least this will start the process.  Strange! * Once the appointment was confirmed I felt a sense of relief.*  I didn't feel or realize that I was stressed about it but I guess that I was.


Frank I pretty much felt the same way.

Life out here doesn't seem all that much different with or without covid but there was a sense of relief when we got our calls for our shots.  I can't explain why.





And here is some more news about the mutations.  I've highlighted some of the key points.  Seems that the mutations will still be managed by the vaccine, although if you have the vaccine you may still get covid.  It just won't be a bad case of covid.  This is very good news for the OVER 60 year old crowd and others who have underlying conditions.  People over 60 and those with multiple underlying conditions tend to get sicker and tend to have higher incidents of death, so if the vaccines do their job reasonably well, you may still get sick from Covid but its likely you'll stay home and treat it with Tylenol instead of going to the hospital and ending up in the morgue.









						UK finds more coronavirus cases with 'concerning' mutations
					

The changes seen may help the virus evade parts of the immune system.



					www.bbc.com
				





UK variant has mutated again, scientists say​2 hours ago
*By Michelle Roberts*
Health editor, BBC News online

*The Kent variant of coronavirus that has been spreading in the UK appears to be undergoing some 'worrying' new genetic changes, say scientists. *

Tests on some samples show a mutation, called E484K, already seen in the South Africa and Brazil variants that are of concern. 

*Although this change may reduce vaccine effectiveness, the current ones in use should still work*, say experts.
. . .

Scientists have already been checking what these new mutations might mean for existing coronavirus vaccines ... *But early results from Moderna suggest its vaccine is still effective against variants with this mutation* - *although the body's immune response may not be as strong or prolonged.*

Two new coronavirus vaccines that could be approved soon - one from Novavax and another from Janssen - also appear to offer good cover against variants, protecting against serious illness. 

*Even in the worst case scenario, vaccines can be redesigned and tweaked to be a better match in a matter or weeks or months*, if necessary, say experts.

A silver lining may be that* the variants are mutating in a similar way* rather than diverging from each other.​


----------



## Ceee

EastTexFrank said:


> Wonder Woman, got us an appointment to get our vaccine shots today


Kudos to Wonder Woman, all 1600 of those slots filled up within 20 minutes.  Good for both of you.


----------



## pirate_girl

Daddy DeWine and Fran got theirs this morning.


----------



## Doc

I'm very disappointed with Ohio's vaccine distribution information.  i get numbers to call that go dead after I call them.  I finally got one thanks to my son in law that answered.  It was my county health dept.   I left a message Sunday and again this morning.  they say they'll get back to me but so far nothing.   Like you Frank, I would feel better to at least know I'm on a list and know that I will get it eventually.  I would much prefer to sign up online but I've not seen that option anywhere.   Those of us over 65 but under 70 are not eligible until Feb 7th or sometime after that but come on.   A little communication goes a long way.  DeWine is good at shutting stuff down but when it comes to communication and distribution of a vaccine to protect us from Covid DeWine sucks.


----------



## Melensdad

Doc said:


> I'm very disappointed with Ohio's vaccine distribution information.  i get numbers to call that go dead after I call them.  I finally got one thanks to my son in law that answered.  It was my county health dept.   I left a message Sunday and again this morning.  they say they'll get back to me but so far nothing.   Like you Frank, I would feel better to at least know I'm on a list and know that I will get it eventually.  I would much prefer to sign up online but I've not seen that option anywhere.   Those of us over 65 but under 70 are not eligible until Feb 7th or sometime after that but come on.   A little communication goes a long way.  DeWine is good at shutting stuff down but when it comes to communication and distribution of a vaccine to protect us from Covid DeWine sucks.


Indiana moved to age 65 for vaccinations a couple days ago.

*Indiana sends out an email* as soon as you qualify.  I know people who claim they never gave their email or signed up with any state agency that are getting emails from the Indiana Dept of Health.  The emails are legit.  It gives instructions on how to sign up.  I personally know people who got those emails on the day after they qualified.

Here you can pick a clinic/hosptial that gives the vaccination and set your own appointment.  One of my friends called today, and got his appointment set for March 3.  He set it for a late afternoon and is going to take his wife.  The clinic said they'd give her a shot too if she came with him and there were any "leftover" doses.  By coming with him it puts her on the top of the "on call" list for leftover doses.  That is a common practice here.  My cousin and his wife did the same thing last Saturday.  He qualified, she is a couple years younger, but she tagged along and got the 'leftover' dose.

I have no clue if other states allow or do this sort of thing but it seems to be common in *Indiana* and I'm happy about it.  It is not a matter of jumping the line since the doses would otherwise need to be "disposed of" so might as well put them in a human rather than putting them in the dumpster.

FWIW, my daughter, age 26, just got on the list in* Illinois* for a vaccination.  Apparently the Supreme Court of the State of Illinois ruled that _lawyers are "essential" workers, but do not qualify as "front line" workers_.  So she is on a medium priority list.  First responders are ahead of her.  People older than 65 are ahead of her.  But she said she is expecting to get her first shot in March???  Hoping???

*Interesting to hear how other state do it.*


----------



## Melensdad

And BOOM a politician (who is a surgeon) calls out lies by the CDC about vaccine priorities. 









						Rand Paul accuses CDC of being 'caught in a lie' over vaccine misinformation
					

Sen. Rand Paul took aim at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, saying the agency was “caught in a lie” for insisting that people who have already had COVID-19 could still benefit from being vaccinated.




					www.washingtonexaminer.com
				





Rand Paul accuses CDC of being 'caught in a lie' over vaccine misinformation​Sen, Rand Paul took aim at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, saying the agency was “caught in a lie” for insisting that people who have already had COVID-19 could still benefit from being vaccinated.

“CDC caught in a lie — studies do not show efficacy of vaccine in previously infected COVID patients. Vaccines should be prioritized for people who have not yet had COVID,” Paul said on Twitter.

Paul shared an article from _Full Measure_, which detailed repeated claims by CDC officials that evidence supported vaccinating those that had already had the virus.

_Full Measure_ reported that the CDC’s claim that a study proved the Pfizer vaccine showed “consistent high efficacy” for those who have already had the COVID-19 was originally disputed by Rep. Thomas Massie, who was so alarmed by the claim that he recorded calls with CDC officials he talked to in an attempt to make a correction.

“People who have had disease, given that there's limited doses right now, we're, we are suggesting that those people wait,” the CDC’s Amanda Cohn told Massie during one of the calls.

Cohn thanked Massie for flagging the mistake, assuring the lawmaker that the CDC would improve its vaccine messaging.

A few days later, Cohn joined other CDC doctors in an online session and claimed again that people who have had COVID-19 could still benefit from vaccination.

“Should people who’ve had COVID-19 be vaccinated and should they be vaccinated now,” Cohn asked fellow CDC doctor Sara Oliver.

“Data from both clinical trials suggests that people with prior infection are still likely to benefit from vaccination,” Oliver responded.

Massie called the CDC again after the alleged misinformation was still posted on the CDC website, resulting in agency officials agreeing that the language the CDC was using needed to be changed. Officials also assured Massie there was no intent to confuse or mislead people.

"Due to the severe health risks associated with COVID-19 and the fact that reinfection is possible, CDC recommends getting vaccinated regardless of whether you already had COVID-19 infection. Experts do not yet know how long someone is protected from getting sick again after recovering from COVID-19," the CDC told the _Washington Examiner._

"However, because the risk of reinfection is low in the months after initial COVID-19 infection, while vaccine supply remains limited, people who have recent infection may choose to temporarily delay vaccination."

The language the CDC was using was eventually tweaked, but Massie said the wording still falsely implies people who have had COVID-19 can benefit from vaccination.

“And instead of fixing it, they proposed repeating it and just phrasing their mistake differently,” Massie said. “So, at that point, right now, I consider it a lie. I think the CDC is lying about the efficacy of the vaccine based on the Pfizer trials, for those who have already had the coronavirus.”


----------



## Melensdad

Just for the record, it was President Trump that arranged for a partnership with CVS, Walgreens and other private pharmacies to give vaccinations.  I'm actually glad to see that President Biden is following through on this idea.  Many of the pharmacies are equipped to give vaccinations and already do it for seasonal shots, some have mini-clinics inside their walls too.  Initially only 11 states will be involved in this pharmacy rollout, choosing states with high populations.  Again, that seems like a pretty logical idea.  Getting the shots into as many arms as possible as quickly as possible before the new mutations from England and South Africa become dominant seems like a good idea.  But those variants are spreading quickly and could be dominant by the end of March.

FULL ARTICLE AT LINK 








						Biden boosting vaccine allotments, financing for virus costs
					

WASHINGTON (AP) — President Joe Biden’s administration announced Tuesday that it is moving to expand access to COVID-19 vaccines, freeing up more doses for states and beginning to distribute them to retail pharmacies next week...




					apnews.com
				





Biden boosting vaccine allotments, financing for virus costs​WASHINGTON (AP) — President Joe Biden’s administration announced Tuesday that it is moving to expand access to COVID-19 vaccines, freeing up more doses for states and beginning to distribute them to retail pharmacies next week. The push comes amid new urgency to speed vaccinations to prevent the spread of potentially more serious strains of the virus that has killed more than 445,000 Americans.

Starting next week, 1 million doses will be distributed to some 6,500 pharmacies across the country, the White House said. The administration is also boosting by 500,000 the weekly allocation of vaccines sent directly to states and territories for the coming weeks, up to 10.5 million. It is allowing state and local governments to receive additional federal dollars to cover previously incurred expenses relating to the pandemic.

Coronavirus coordinator Jeff Zients announced the moves on a call with the nation’s governors Tuesday morning and then detailed them to the public in an afternoon news conference. 

*Drugstores have become a mainstay for flu shots and shingles vaccines, and the industry is capable of vaccinating tens of millions of people monthly*. “This will provide more sites for people to get vaccinated in their communities,” Zients said.

“This is a critical step to provide the public with convenient trusted places to get vaccinated in their communities,” he added.

The number of participating pharmacies and the allocation of vaccines are expected to accelerate as drug makers increase production. The White House said the ultimate goal was to distribute the vaccines through more than 40,000 pharmacies nationwide. State and local guidelines will determine who is eligible to get a shot at their neighborhood pharmacy. Availability will be limited at first.

“Getting it into pharmacies is a viable approach,” said Dan Mendelson, founder of the health care industry consulting firm Avalere Health. “The pharmacies know how to move people in and out.”

Part of the reason the vaccination campaign got off to a slow start, he added, is that states lacked their own infrastructure for mass vaccinations.

The partnership with drugstores was originally announced by the Trump administration in November. At that time, no coronavirus vaccines had been approved. Participating are major chains like CVS, Walgreens and Rite Aid, big box stores such as Walmart and Costco, and supermarket pharmacies. CVS said it will receive 250,000 doses initially, to be distributed to pharmacies in 11 states.

The pharmacy doses will be distributed to states by population...


----------



## EastTexFrank

Our local grocery store pharmacy is administering shots.  We were numbers 610 and 611 on that list.  The problem is that they are only doing 10 or 12 shots a day.  You do the math.  

The other list we were on informed us that there were "thousands" ahead of us.  When our number came up they would be in touch.

The UT Health system, the one we got an appointment with, handles it differently.  They announce on the local news that they they will be receiving x-number of doses.  The next day they open their registration web page and it is first come, first served.  You have to be quick.  As Ceee mentioned, all 1600 doses were allocated within 20 minutes.  

Our local CVS pharmacy and our Walmart pharmacy  aren't participating at present because they don't have the equipment to keep the vaccine frozen.


----------



## sno-drifter

Oregon has chosen to ignore the CDC's priority recommendations. Teachers are in the first wave. They think is more important to take care of the teacher's lobby than to vaccinate the senior population. Now the prison inmates take priority over us old farts. Wonder how bad of a crime one must commit to be an inmate?


----------



## Melensdad

sno-drifter said:


> Oregon has chosen to ignore the CDC's priority recommendations. Teachers are in the first wave. They think is more important to take care of the teacher's lobby than to vaccinate the senior population. Now the prison inmates take priority over us old farts. Wonder how bad of a crime one must commit to be an inmate?


Just MY opinion, _worth exactly what you paid for it, _I think medical professionals, ambulance, fire & police, *butchers, food production and food sales* should come before teachers.  Seem to me need health care, law & order, fire protection and FOOD TO EAT more than we need teachers.  I'm not downplaying teachers.  I love teachers.  My was a teacher and we have teacher friends.  But I need food. I can wait for education.


----------



## mla2ofus

And the "science" says kids are less likely to get it or spread it.


----------



## m1west

After all the reading, debating and listening, bottom line with the exception of knowing a little more about the virus. even with a half dozen vaccines around the world with Trillions of dollars spent and lives ruined, no one is any closer to defeating the virus than we were a year ago when it started. People are getting COVID that got the vaccine and historically vaccines are about 70% effective year over year because of mutation. How long has there been Flu vaccines?? Do we still get the yearly Flu and people die every year from the yearly Flu?? I would recommend anyone that lives in a urban area to rethink that.
1- a lot  more people spreading it around
2- a lot more restrictions
3- and maybe its time for people to be loyal and take care of Mom and Dad yourself when they get old like we used to. Is it a inconvenience? Yes it is but they already wiped your ass when you came in so maybe you should return the favor when they go out.
4- Take some personal responsibility and stay home if you have issues with your health and you are scared about it. So folks that are not can have some type of normalcy in there life.
5- Accept the fact that we didn't ask for it or can change it and likely will be the leading cause of death in folks with medical issues from now on. 6- Get on with life the best you can.
My .02


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> After all the reading, debating and listening, bottom line with the exception of knowing a little more about the virus. even with a half dozen vaccines around the world with Trillions of dollars spent and lives ruined, no one is any closer to defeating the virus than we were a year ago when it started. People are getting COVID that got the vaccine and historically vaccines are about 70% effective year over year because of mutation. How long has there been Flu vaccines?? Do we still get the yearly Flu and people die every year from the yearly Flu?? I would recommend anyone that lives in a urban area to rethink that.
> 1- a lot  more people spreading it around
> 2- a lot more restrictions
> 3- and maybe its time for people to be loyal and take care of Mom and Dad yourself when they get old like we used to. Is it a inconvenience? Yes it is but they already wiped your ass when you came in so maybe you should return the favor when they go out.
> 4- Take some personal responsibility and stay home if you have issues with your health and you are scared about it. So folks that are not can have some type of normalcy in there life.
> 5- Accept the fact that we didn't ask for it or can change it and likely will be the leading cause of death in folks with medical issues from now on. 6- Get on with life the best you can.
> My .02


I agree with much of what you wrote but disagree with some points.  I think they are closer to finding treatments and in fact there are some treatments used in some areas of the world that seem to be pretty good, while other areas of the world don't use those same treatments.  Vitamin D seems to have a dramatic ability to alter the course of this disease's affect on the human body but it seems to be totally overlooked by some nations while other nations seem to be pushing the use of this cheap and available vitamin.

I totally agree that the urban dwellers may want to rethink priorities and lifestyles, but I doubt many of them will do so.  Certainly some have have fled cities like New York, Chicago and San Fran.  But those cities were already losing populations, it was just that Covid gave the incentive to leave to those who were already predisposed to flee for other reasons.  

And yes, we do have to figure out how to get on with our lives as best as we can.


===========================================


Rather than posting some new innovation (I haven't seen any) or additional news about the vaccine rollout (not going fast enough) I thought this was a good story.  And it is finally making news in some mainstream media too.  NY Governor Cuomo was heralded as a model of hot a good leader should lead during much of this pandemic, he was typically compared to the horrible Republican governors of several states (Florida, Texas, etc).  All the while we were posting about the nursing home deaths that were ignored by mainstream media.  *Glad to see that people are finally being held accountable for the government created genocide that occurred in the NY nursing homes.*

Video at the link:  https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/judge-new-york-turn-over-nursing-covid-statistics



*New York ordered to turn over nursing home COVID-19 death statistics*​ | February 03, 2021 04:10 PM

*A New York Supreme Court justice is ordering the state to turn over its data on coronavirus-caused deaths in nursing homes. *

Justice Kimberly A. O'Connor released her decision on Wednesday, concluding that the state violated the law by not providing a reasonable date for when it could turn over the information to Empire Center for Public Policy, the group that requested it. New York will now have to turn over the data within five business days. 

The conservative think tank filed a request for the information in August, but when the state delayed the request, they filed a lawsuit in September. 

"DOH has had ample time to respond to Empire Center's FOIL request," O'Connor said. "Its continued failure to provide petitioner a response, given the straightforward nature of the request, how the data is collected and maintained, and the fact that some of the requested data has already been made publicly available without personally identifying information, goes against FOIL's broad standard of open and transparent government and is a violation of the statute."

"With the preliminary audit complete, we were already in the process of responding to their FOIL request and updating DOH’s website with publicly available information," said Gary Holmes, a health department spokesman.

*Last week, New York State Attorney General Letitia James released a report saying that nursing home coronavirus deaths had been undercounted by Gov. Andrew Cuomo's administration by as much as 50%. *

On Mar. 25, the New York Health Department released a directive ordering nursing homes to accept and readmit patients that had tested positive for COVID-19, a move for which Cuomo received intense criticism. In July, the Health Department released a report asserting that most of the patients sent back "were no longer contagious when admitted and therefore were not a source of infection."

*On Monday, the New York Times reported at least nine senior New York state health officials have resigned from their positions, i*ncluding the medical director in the division of epidemiology. Cuomo himself, who in the early stages of the pandemic was hailed as a dynamic leader, has been under increasing pressure this year for his policies and decision making as the vaccine rolls out in the Empire State.​


----------



## Melensdad

Looks like we will not "vaccinate" away this disease.

More likely we will only reach herd immunity after about 25% of the population gets Covid.

1 in 4 Americans have no intention of getting vaccinated.  I know a couple that don't intend to take it.  The husband is a Federal Marshall, he will only take it if he is ordered to do so.  His wife is pretty much an anti-vaccine person who simply doesn't trust the government and especially does not trust this vaccine.









						1 in 4 Americans say they would never get COVID-19 vaccine: poll
					

One in four Americans said they would never get the coronavirus vaccine, a new national poll reveals. Republicans were the biggest COVID-19 vaccine resisters, with 42 percent saying they will &#822…




					nypost.com


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> I agree with much of what you wrote but disagree with some points.  I think they are closer to finding treatments and in fact there are some treatments used in some areas of the world that seem to be pretty good, while other areas of the world don't use those same treatments.  Vitamin D seems to have a dramatic ability to alter the course of this disease's affect on the human body but it seems to be totally overlooked by some nations while other nations seem to be pushing the use of this cheap and available vitamin.
> 
> I totally agree that the urban dwellers may want to rethink priorities and lifestyles, but I doubt many of them will do so.  Certainly some have have fled cities like New York, Chicago and San Fran.  But those cities were already losing populations, it was just that Covid gave the incentive to leave to those who were already predisposed to flee for other reasons.
> 
> And yes, we do have to figure out how to get on with our lives as best as we can.
> 
> 
> ===========================================
> 
> 
> Rather than posting some new innovation (I haven't seen any) or additional news about the vaccine rollout (not going fast enough) I thought this was a good story.  And it is finally making news in some mainstream media too.  NY Governor Cuomo was heralded as a model of hot a good leader should lead during much of this pandemic, he was typically compared to the horrible Republican governors of several states (Florida, Texas, etc).  All the while we were posting about the nursing home deaths that were ignored by mainstream media.  *Glad to see that people are finally being held accountable for the government created genocide that occurred in the NY nursing homes.*
> 
> Video at the link:  https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/judge-new-york-turn-over-nursing-covid-statistics
> 
> 
> ​​*New York ordered to turn over nursing home COVID-19 death statistics*​
> | February 03, 2021 04:10 PM​​*A New York Supreme Court justice is ordering the state to turn over its data on coronavirus-caused deaths in nursing homes. *​​Justice Kimberly A. O'Connor released her decision on Wednesday, concluding that the state violated the law by not providing a reasonable date for when it could turn over the information to Empire Center for Public Policy, the group that requested it. New York will now have to turn over the data within five business days.​​The conservative think tank filed a request for the information in August, but when the state delayed the request, they filed a lawsuit in September.​​"DOH has had ample time to respond to Empire Center's FOIL request," O'Connor said. "Its continued failure to provide petitioner a response, given the straightforward nature of the request, how the data is collected and maintained, and the fact that some of the requested data has already been made publicly available without personally identifying information, goes against FOIL's broad standard of open and transparent government and is a violation of the statute."​​"With the preliminary audit complete, we were already in the process of responding to their FOIL request and updating DOH’s website with publicly available information," said Gary Holmes, a health department spokesman.​​*Last week, New York State Attorney General Letitia James released a report saying that nursing home coronavirus deaths had been undercounted by Gov. Andrew Cuomo's administration by as much as 50%. *​​On Mar. 25, the New York Health Department released a directive ordering nursing homes to accept and readmit patients that had tested positive for COVID-19, a move for which Cuomo received intense criticism. In July, the Health Department released a report asserting that most of the patients sent back "were no longer contagious when admitted and therefore were not a source of infection."​​*On Monday, the New York Times reported at least nine senior New York state health officials have resigned from their positions, i*ncluding the medical director in the division of epidemiology. Cuomo himself, who in the early stages of the pandemic was hailed as a dynamic leader, has been under increasing pressure this year for his policies and decision making as the vaccine rolls out in the Empire State.​


I agree with investing in therapeutics that can ease the symptoms, there are already some but we could use more, the point of my post was that its not going away and we are going to learn how to live with it, and where you live can effect how you do that.


----------



## pirate_girl

m1west said:


> 5- Accept the fact that we didn't ask for it or can change it and likely will be the leading cause of death in folks with medical issues from now on.





m1west said:


> 6- Get on with life the best you can.
> My .02


Yup.
Just like the regular flu.

Again I'm predicting this thing called COVID-19  which turned the world upside down is going to miraculously become not such a thing within a few months.
We're all going to be vaccinated.
Next year a component of covid will be safely a part of our regular flu jabs.


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> I agree with investing in therapeutics that can ease the symptoms, there are already some but we could use more, the point of my post was that its not going away and we are going to learn how to live with it, and where you live can effect how you do that.


Not therapeutics!

Actual treatments. Actual preventatives.

Vitamin D3 may prevent Covid. Vitamin D is known to reduce the severity (not just symptoms but actual disease and most Americans and Europeans are V D deficient.

ivermectin may be a cure.

Hydroxycloriqin, if used EARLY, may be a cure or may reduce the severity or is at least an effective treatment and may be a preventative in low doses.  If used late and in high doses actually makes things worse.


----------



## EastTexFrank

We got our first shots today and let me say that I was impressed by the efficiency of the whole operation.  We had a 6 pm appointment.  We got there 10 minutes early and were back in the car park at 6:15 pm and that included the 15 minute observation period.  It doesn't get much slicker than that.  

We got the Pfizer vaccine and an appointment for the second shot on the 24th of Feb.  I've had no reaction to the shot at all.  My wife, who faints at the sight of a needle, says that she didn't even feel it but her arm feels tired, not sore, just tired.  

As far as supplements go, I was vitamin D deficient and have been taking a D3 capsule every day along with a multivitamin for a long time.  That amounts to almost 400% of the recommended daily dosage of Vitamin D along with the other recommended minerals that are supposed to alleviate or prevent COVID and its symptoms.  I don't know if it worked or not but so far I am COVID free ... I think.


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> Not therapeutics!
> 
> Actual treatments. Actual preventatives.
> 
> Vitamin D3 may prevent Covid. Vitamin D is known to reduce the severity (not just symptoms but actual disease and most Americans and Europeans are V D deficient.
> 
> ivermectin may be a cure.
> 
> Hydroxycloriqin, if used EARLY, may be a cure or may reduce the severity or is at least an effective treatment and may be a preventative in low doses.  If used late and in high doses actually makes things worse.


I agree with that also,Vitamin D deficiency can cause all kinds of problems. An industrial store I shop at, the sales man there suddenly became wheelchair bound with the diagnosis of MS. 3 months later is walking around. He told me in the end it was a vitamin D deficiency. So yes anything that can be done to treat it both before and after getting it. Because its never going away completely.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

I can't guarantee the accuracy of this picture but I came across this on Facebook. The post claimed that this was the result of getting the vaccination.


----------



## Melensdad

NorthernRedneck said:


> I can't guarantee the accuracy of this picture but I came across this on Facebook. The post claimed that this was the result of getting the vaccination.



Just my opinion but it seems unlikely.  There in, what appears to be, an IV bruise at the inside of the elbow joint.  The vaccine is a simple shot in the muscle at the shoulder.


======================================================


We have 2 new highly contagious variants but we also have declines in cases and those cannot be explained by the vaccinations.









						Why ARE coronavirus cases falling in the US with 44% drop in 3 weeks?
					

On Wednesday, a total of 110,679 new coronavirus cases were reported with a 7-day rolling average of 135,904, a 44% decline from the average three weeks earlier.




					www.dailymail.co.uk
				





Why ARE COVID cases plummeting? New infections have fallen 45% in the US and 30% globally in the past 3 weeks but experts say vaccine is NOT the main driver because only 8% of Americans and 13% people worldwide have received their first dose​
*Daily cases have dropped 45 percent since the latest peak on January 11, according to data from the COVID-19 Tracking Project . There were 131,341 new cases reported on Wednesday *
*The decline appears to be a global phenomenon, with new infections falling worldwide for the past three weeks in a row, the World Health Organization said Monday  *
*Hospitalizations have fallen a whopping 26 percent since they peaked most recently on January 12 *
*Currently, 44 states are seeing a decline in cases with just Alabama, Louisiana, Montana, New Jersey, Oklahoma and Pennsylvania trending upward, according to Johns Hopkins data *
*California's 21,451 new confirmed cases on Tuesday are about one-third the mid-December peak of 54,000*
*New York recorded 8,215 new infections on Tuesday, down from the record-high of 19,942 new cases reported on January 15*
*Health experts say it is too soon for vaccines to be playing a major role in the decline with just 8% of the population having received the first shot and fewer than 2% being fully immunized *
*Officials say the drop is likely due to a higher number of people who've had the virus than official counts suggest, as many as 90 million people, and fewer people traveling than did over the winter holidays*


----------



## EastTexFrank

I agree with Bob, that is not the COVID injection site. 

As far as plummeting case numbers go, it is something that I have noticed in our county as well.  It peaked at 400 cases a week in the first part of January.  It then fell to 200 cases a week and is now down to about 100 new cases a week and heading lower.  I have no real explanation for it. 

I do find it ironic though that almost a year ago we were panicking when we had 5 reported cases a week.  I think that most people have figured out that COVID isn't the death sentence that it was purported to be in the beginning.  Sure, it is dangerous to us older people with underlying conditions but younger, healthy people are at much less of a risk from it.  We have also become much better at treating it. 

Also me, having become much more cynical, have noticed that the same "doom and gloomers" are still out there preaching death and destruction, "don't do this, don't do that, avoid this at all costs, you must follow all guidelines".  These people, when and if the pandemic ends, will return to insignificance and it can't be soon enough for me.  I'm tired of seeing Dr Faucci on television every single day being interviewed on 4 different channels giving sometimes contradictory statements.  Enough already.


----------



## pirate_girl

NorthernRedneck said:


> I can't guarantee the accuracy of this picture but I came across this on Facebook. The post claimed that this was the result of getting the vaccination. View attachment 134579


That looks like ecchymosis from soft tissue trauma.


----------



## Melensdad

So this is the part of Covid that worries me more than death.  Death rates are something around 0.5%, perhaps lower overall.  Perhaps right there for people aged 60+.  But this long term illness is to me a living near-death sentence. 

Full story at the link ==>  https://khn.org/news/article/long-haul-covid-cases-cast-new-light-on-chronic-fatigue-sufferers/

Long-Haul Covid Cases Cast New Light on Chronic Fatigue Sufferers​Kevin CoolFebruary 2, 2021




"Long hauler" Jennifer Minhas found that once her fever and cough subsided after she got covid-19 last March, new symptoms emerged: chest pain, elevated heart rate and fatigue. "I was kind of a zombie for months," she says. (Jennifer Minhas)
Four weeks after San Diego pediatric nurse Jennifer Minhas fell ill with covid-19 last March, her cough and fever had resolved, but new symptoms had emerged: chest pain, an elevated heart rate and crushing fatigue. Her primary care physician told her she was just anxious, and that none of her other covid patients had those issues. “That wasn’t what I needed to hear,” Minhas said.

At times, she’s been too exhausted to hold up her head. “I was kind of a zombie for months, shuffling around unable to do much of anything.”

The clinical term for the flattening fatigue Minhas describes is “post-exertional malaise.”* It is a common symptom among patients who have not recovered from covid*. It is also consistent with a standard feature of another chronic illness: myalgic encephalomyelitis, also known as chronic fatigue syndrome, or ME/CFS.

ME/CFS patients also report cognitive impairment — *“brain fog”* — and orthostatic intolerance, in which standing upright produces a racing heart rate and lightheadedness. Minhas has experienced these symptoms, as have many other “long haulers,” the tens of thousands of post-covid patients who haven’t recovered.

The percentage of covid patients who become long haulers is hard to pin down — in part because many early covid patients were not tested in time to detect the virus. But “long covid” is potentially an enormous problem. A recent study of 1,733 covid patients in Wuhan, China, found three-quarters of them still had symptoms six months after being released from the hospital.

*As of January, doctors had documented more than 21 million cases of covid in the United States. “If just 5 percent develop lingering symptoms . . . ’’*​


----------



## Melensdad

pirate_girl said:


> That looks like *ecchymosis* from soft tissue trauma.


I was going to say that too


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Melensdad said:


> We have 2 new highly contagious variants but we also have declines in cases and those cannot be explained by the vaccinations.


It's because Biden is the president and they aren't falsifying the numbers to make Trump look bad.  They are now falsifying the numbers to make Biden look good.  Just like how the news in Portland is no longer covering Antifa but is now starting to ramp up stories on a new "gun crime epidemic".


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Another perspective ...








						How Phony Coronavirus “Fear Videos” Were Used as Psychological Weapons to Bring America to Her Knees - Revolver News
					

Phony coronavirus fear videos imported from China are making us wonder whether this whole thing was one giant psy-op.




					www.revolver.news


----------



## pirate_girl

Everything about this pandemic is coming full circle.
What we once thought, is true in many cases.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Out of Canada ...

ICU Nurse Whistleblower: Hospitals Running Below Capacity, Performing “Pandemic Theatre”









						ICU Nurse Whistleblower: Hospitals Running Below Capacity, Performing "Pandemic Theatre" - Global Research
					

All Global Research articles can be read in 27 languages by activating the “Translate Website” drop down menu on the top banner of our home page (Desktop version). *** On January 6, 2021, I was contacted by a nurse who works in a hospital on the outskirts of Toronto, Ontario. Toronto is Canada’s...




					www.globalresearch.ca


----------



## pirate_girl

COVID-19 cases plummet in Ohio nursing homes nearly 2 months after vaccinations started
					

Around 1,846 new cases were reported in Ohio's long term care facilities last week, down 82% from a recent high point.



					www.dispatch.com


----------



## Melensdad

More news of Covid cases going down.

Perhaps different states are getting different news, but here in Indiana we have been getting positive and optimistic news about the whole Covid situation. At least that’s my take on it.

My sister in London is getting ‘doom and gloom’ news. 

Chicago news is reporting mixed bad and good.  Seems like the Doctor/Experts interviewed are more doom/gloom but the hospitalization rates are declining and restaurants are opening.  

See the LINK for the full story:





__





						Zerohedge
					

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero




					www.zerohedge.com
				





Even 'Scientist' Models Now Forecast The COVID Scourge Ending By The Summer​The covid pandemic was front and center today in economic news, when its impact was felt throughout the January payrolls report (if not to the same extent as December payrolls), whose disappointing +49k reading could be easily explained by continued job losses in the Leisure & Hospitality sector due to COVID-19 outbreaks and associated lockdown measures and restrictions.





However, as BofA's Hans Mikkelsen writes, "given that the US COVID-19 situation is improving rapidly – for example the number of people hospitalized is down one-third over the past month – and restrictions are lifted in many large states like California, it is straightforward to expect much stronger payrolls going forward."

Indeed, the latest Covid data shows that absent any major shocks - such as a mutant strain that is fully immune to any existing vaccines - the pandemic should be a thing of the past relatively soon.  STORY CONTINUES at the link.


----------



## Ceee

New Daily COVID-19 Cases in Dallas County on Decline; Deaths Remain High
					

Dallas County is reporting 1,019 new COVID-19 cases Sunday along with 11 more reported deaths from the virus.




					www.nbcdfw.com
				




"Dallas County is reporting 1,019 new COVID-19 cases Sunday along with 11 more reported deaths from the virus.

The number of new daily cases in Dallas County has trended downward for roughly three weeks, from a seven-day average of 2,690 on Jan. 13 to 1,262 Sunday.

While the cases have trended down, the number of fatalities has remained high. Dallas County Health and Human Services reported 228 deaths last week -- *the deadliest week of the pandemic*."

Some parts of Tx are still not looking so great.


----------



## Melensdad

Ceee said:


> While the cases have trended down, the number of fatalities has remained high. Dallas County Health and Human Services reported 228 deaths last week -- *the deadliest week of the pandemic*."


Deaths are a "trailing indicator" and if cases drop, then 10-20 days later the deaths will drop.  If cases increase, then deaths will increase roughly 2 weeks after the cases increase.


----------



## Melensdad

For your reading pleasure I present this article from FOX News.  

There is a reason Iran, once a modern nation, is now a 3rd world country.


Iranian cleric claims COVID-19 vaccine turns people into ‘homosexuals’​The ayatollah cautioned his citizens to avoid any who received the vaccine​8 hours ago

A cleric in the Iranian regime told his followers that the COVID-19 vaccination turns people into "homosexuals," which is punishable by death in Iran.

Ayatollah Abbas Tabrizian made the outrageous claims Tuesday on the social media platform Telegram, according to the Jerusalem Post.

*"Don’t go near those who have had the COVID vaccine,"* the radical Islamist wrote to his nearly 210,000 followers. *"They have become homosexuals."*

Tabrizian, who lives in the religious capital of Qom and whose followers refer to him as ayatollah, has a history of promoting bigotry and false information about Western medicine.

Last year, the totalitarian burned "Harrison’s Manual of Medicine" in a videotaped ceremony, claiming that "Islamic medicine" had made such books "irrelevant," according to Radio Farda, a Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty broadcast service.

"Like other clerics in the regime, also Tabrizian relates all the shortages [shortcomings] to sexuality," Iranian dissident Sheina Vojoudi told the Jerusalem Post.
. . . ​
And the link to the above story can be found here just in case you need to read the FULL article:   https://www.foxnews.com/world/iranian-cleric-claims-covid-19-vaccine-turns-people-into-homosexuals


----------



## pirate_girl

Weekly U.S. Influenza Surveillance Report
					

Learn more about the weekly influenza surveillance report (FluView) prepared by the Influenza Division.




					www.cdc.gov


----------



## Melensdad

Pretty much what I expected them to say.

This will be an annual thing.











						J&J CEO says people may need annual Covid vaccine shots for the next several years
					

People may need to get vaccinated against Covid-19 annually, just like seasonal flu shots, over the next several years, J&J CEO Alex Gorsky told CNBC.




					www.cnbc.com


----------



## EastTexFrank

Melensdad said:


> Iranian cleric claims COVID-19 vaccine turns people into ‘homosexuals’​
> ​The ayatollah cautioned his citizens to avoid any who received the vaccine​



And remember, this person has the exact same amount of medical training as Bill Gates.


----------



## pirate_girl

Ohio has reached caseload benchmark to lift COVID-19 curfew; next move up to DeWine and state health department
					

The curfew is to expire at noon today. We should find out more during Gov. Mike DeWine's news conference expected today.




					www.wtol.com


----------



## Melensdad

pirate_girl said:


> Ohio has reached caseload benchmark to lift COVID-19 curfew; next move up to DeWine and state health department
> 
> 
> The curfew is to expire at noon today. We should find out more during Gov. Mike DeWine's news conference expected today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wtol.com


Seems like there is some scary news out there with the possibility of these new variants that spread faster BUT IT ALSO SEEMS LIKE THERE IS A LOT OF GOOD NEWS out there coming from the states.

Cases are dropping in almost every state.  And in many countries.

Deaths are also dropping.

Treatments are advancing.


----------



## EastTexFrank

I hope that you're right Bob.  I've watched the new case numbers in our small County drop from 400 a week to 200 a week to 100 a week and keep on heading south.  I can't really explain it.  I haven't seen any change in people's behavior that would explain it.  It's far too soon for the vaccine shots to be having that kind of effect.  The cynic in me is suspicious though.


----------



## mla2ofus

Maybe the powers that be are finding the populace is losing faith in their reporting numbers so they're reporting the actual numbers.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

They just announced that March break is going to move to April this year because of covid in Ontario. Not sure what that will do to change things. We'll see.


----------



## Melensdad

Frank here are some reasons.

1 is absolutely political.  On the day that President Biden was inaugurated the WHO changed their standards for defining the Covid test standards.

2 is absolutely political.  The CDC, shortly before Mr Biden was inaugurated, mandated a lower cycle count in for Covid tests.

3 it is probably the cycle of the disease.  They all run in cycles.  So perhaps some of it is just luck.

All that said, I am concerned that the new variants will tick up the numbers if we don't increase the pace of the vaccinations.  We know that as cases go up so do deaths.  It's a numerical reality that deaths go up with this disease and go down with this disease.  So the key is that we need to get more people some immunity, even if only partial, before the new variants, which seem to spread faster, take a grip on this nation.  

Based on the data I'm seeing, even with only 1 dose of the vaccine, if someone does catch Covid, even someone over 60 years old, they don't go into the hospital, they don't die from the disease.  They may get sick, they may fell miserable, but they don't need hospital care or funeral services.


----------



## pirate_girl

Gov DeWine just announced no more curfew for Ohio.
Gee, I didn't know we ever HAD an enforced curfew. ?

Also, Henry county reports that 10% of residents have been vaccinated.


----------



## pirate_girl

Britain’s COVID infection rate lowers to July numbers
					

The U.K. is in lockdown to try to curb Europe’s worst coronavirus outbreak, which has caused more than 116,000 deaths.




					www.pbs.org


----------



## pirate_girl




----------



## NorthernRedneck

So here's the thinking of the powers that be in our provincial government. We've been under a "stay at home" order since Christmas because it's "safer" there. Covid numbers are on the rise despite the stay at home order. Particularly in the school system. So it would make sense to shut down the schools and order the kids to do home schooling. 

What actually happened was the government, while telling people since Christmas that it's safer at home on the flipside is now saying it is safer for the kids to be at school where numbers are on the rise. So they postponed spring break from March to April to keep the kids where it's "safer" meanwhile the rest of us have to stay home where it's "safer".  Does this make sense?


----------



## NorthernRedneck

Here's a scenario. 

Imagine that you and your children have tested positive for covid and are isolating at home. It's very cold. Like -40 with the windchill. Not to worry. You're safely inside self isolating because you are infected with the virus. Then it happens. 

You wake up to the whole house freezing cold with the possibility of pipes bursting. Your furnace has died. You can't leave because you are infected. Nobody is allowed in while you are quarantined. What do you do? 

That's exactly what a local family experienced this week up here. 









						A broken furnace raises questions on COVID isolation rules
					

Read the full story and comment on Tbnewswatch.com




					www.tbnewswatch.com


----------



## Melensdad

I would go to a hotel and stay in my room.


----------



## Doc

Gov Dewine sucks.   Ohio sucks at getting the vaccine out to the masses.   So many of my friends from WV, SC, FL, IL  and IN all have gotten one or both of their shots.   I have none, no appt.  Nothing.  I'm on lists.   Whoppee.  Frustrating.


----------



## pirate_girl

Doc said:


> Gov Dewine sucks.   Ohio sucks at getting the vaccine out to the masses.   So many of my friends from WV, SC, FL, IL  and IN all have gotten one or both of their shots.   I have none, no appt.  Nothing.  I'm on lists.   Whoppee.  Frustrating.


Doc, I thought Walgreen's, CVS and Rite Aid started mass vaccinations last week.


----------



## Doc

pirate_girl said:


> Doc, I thought Walgreen's, CVS and Rite Aid started mass vaccinations last week.


Thanks PG.   Not down here in hicksville part of Ohio.  They don't know when they will get their supply. i checked last week but I should check again tomorrow.


----------



## Melensdad

FWIW, the backwards flyover state of Indiana is on track to have over 900,000 people 1st shot vaccinated by the end of this week and we should have about 400,000 with BOTH shots in their arm by the end of this week.  So a total of 1.3 MILLION vaccinations by the end of the week.  Given that we have a reasonably small population and are a largely rural state, that is actually pretty darn good.  We only have about 6 million residents in the entire state.  The above data is based on my STATE's dashboard.  JohnsHopkins is actually saying that that we've already passed 1.3 million, if JohnsHopikins is correct then we should be over 1.4 Million by the end of the week can approaching 1.5.

So I don't know what data is correct, but I'll stick with the more conservative data for safety.  I do know that the Indiana Covid Dashboard is probably 48 hours behind actual vaccinations.  As vaccination data is collected daily, data is sent down to Indianapolis, and then updated on the website 1 time per day.  So people who are vaccinated on Wednesday tend to show up in the data on Friday or Saturday.





pirate_girl said:


> Doc, I thought *Walgreen's, CVS and Rite Aid* started *mass vaccinations* last week.


I don't know about OHIO but in Illinois they are using the drug store chains to vaccinate.  BUT not anyone can go to the drug store for the vaccination.  You still have to fit the appropriate AGE and be on the RISK lists to get the shot.  And you need an APPOINTMENT at the pharmacy to get the shot.  So *mass vaccinations in Illinois are not happening* at the pharmacies.   Again, each state has their own process so I what is happening in Ohio may be very different than what is happening in Illinois.





PFIZER recommended 3 weeks between injections for maximum efficacy.  MODERNA recommended 4 weeks between injections for maximum efficacy.

We also know that in the UK they are using primarily the OX/AZ vaccine but in the UK they are stretching out the time intervals largely to REDUCE severe cases.  They have found that people with 1 dose in their arm may still get Covid, and may still get sick, but they do NOT end up in the hospital or in the morgue.  So their logic is saying a delay removes MOST of the risks and prevents their healthcare system from being crushed. 



US CDC Weighs Extending Interval Between COVID Jab Doses​In what could become another major messaging flip-flop from the CDC, after repeatedly urging all eligible Americans to make sure not to miss their second follow-up dose of the COVID vaccine, Bloomberg reports that the scientific professionals managing the US COVID response *are weighing recommendations to extend the interval between the first and second dose as supplies run low.



*

The CDC's advisory committee has reportedly debated the idea, which will be taken up by the full committee and provide official guidance, according to a Bloomberg report. Jose Romero, chairman of the committee and Arkansas health secretary, reportedly declined to comment officially.

Such a delay would be a big shift from just a few weeks ago, when US health officials rejected a dose-stretching policy adopted by the UK which allowed up to 12 weeks between shots. *Most drugmakers have agreed, saying that policies should follow the protocols used in the shots’ testing, in which the intervals were set at three or four weeks.

But apparently the situation has changed, or is changing.* Despite all the fearmongering about the COVID "mutant" strains (another possibility repeatedly denied by Dr. Tony Fauci and other top health officials until it finally became a reality), Gov. Andrew Cuomo of New York affirmed earlier that the state's positivity rate had fallen to its lowest level since November (though Cuomo is also now embroiled in a worsening scandal over allegedly lying about COVID deaths in NY's nursing homes.



> *"We know that until we have sufficient vaccine, there is the requirement to have some sort of prioritization scheme,"* Clay Marsh, West Virginia’s Covid-19 czar, said in an interview.
> "The next question is, is it better to put a single dose in the arms of more people?"


The CDC is weighing the shift, which *could slow down the vaccination process, while President Biden is doing everything in his power to hit the 100MM vaccinated mark by his 100th day in office*.

While supplies have been cited in some reports, we also note demand could also become an issue as not just vaccine-skeptics, but *weather-impacted travel restrictions (see Texas for example) mean there are not enough arms to jab*.

And unfortunately, it seems *some states have been overwhelmed by the task of trying to get enough doses for the most urgently needed patients*, all of which have forced both the FDA and CDC to "moderate" their stance about delaying the second dose.

Though we do question the 'science' here? *Is the science of vaccine efficacy protocols being sacrificed at the alter of inept local government logistics? . . . *​




__





						Zerohedge
					

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero




					www.zerohedge.com


----------



## Doc

I deal with CVS usually.   So I checked with them.  A phone call puts you in automation hell.   Web site is not much better but eventually here is what I found.   here are the stores that have the vaccine, none even close to me, and every one of them is fully booked.   So frustrating.


----------



## Ceee

Melensdad said:


> While supplies have been cited in some reports, we also note demand could also become an issue as not just vaccine-skeptics, but *weather-impacted travel restrictions (see Texas for example) mean there are not enough arms to jab*.


Just something that I heard on the local news:  A vaccine hub in Houston had some leftover vac's that were going to expire, so they went to a local college and vaccinated students with the remainder.  This was just a couple of days ago, and I haven't heard about any fallout from that.

This is aggravating:








						Texas Doctor Fired for Giving Away Expiring Vaccines
					

A doctor near Houston, Texas, was fired after he gave out 10 doses of the Moderna COVID-19 vaccine after an opened vial was set to expire in six hours.




					www.webmd.com
				




"Feb. 16, 2021 -- A doctor near Houston, gave out 10 doses of the Moderna COVID-19 vaccine after an opened vial was set to expire in 6 hours. Then he was charged with stealing the vaccine and was fired from his job at the Harris County Public Health Department, according to The New York Times."

"Gokal realized that the 6-hour expiration window had begun, so he looked for more people who could get a vaccine, starting with the health care workers and police officers at the event, who either declined or had already been vaccinated."

"Gokal gave the doses to acquaintances and strangers, including a bed-bound woman in her 90s, a woman in her 80s with dementia, several men and women in their 60s and 70s with health issues, and a mother with a child on a ventilator. After midnight and just minutes before the vial would expire, the final person called and said he wouldn’t make it. Gokal turned to his wife, who has a pulmonary disease that causes shortness of breath, and gave her the last dose."


----------



## Melensdad

We’ll Have Herd Immunity by April​
A professor at Johns Hopkins is projecting that Covid will be largely gone in April of this year..  So you'd think this should be a headline banner published in every newspaper all around the world.

He makes several key points.  Top 2 take aways are that the actual infection rate for Covid nationally is much higher than reported and the fact that we should have about 100,000 million vaccinations jabbed into peoples arms in March of this year.  

Thanks to the WALL STREET JOURNAL for having the courage to publish this.  Given the political climate one can presume that if this is true, it will be buried by major media sources everywhere and we'll be wearing masks for 2 years.  This guy will likely be fired or "cancelled" by the leftist too.










						Opinion | We’ll Have Herd Immunity by April
					

Covid cases have dropped 77% in six weeks. Experts should level with the public about the good news.




					www.wsj.com
				




Amid the dire Covid warnings, one crucial fact has been largely ignored: *Cases are down 77% over the past six weeks.* If a medication slashed cases by 77%, we’d call it a miracle pill. Why is the number of cases plummeting much faster than experts predicted?​​In large part because natural immunity from prior infection is far more common than can be measured by testing. Testing has been capturing only from 10% to 25% of infections, depending on when during the pandemic someone got the virus. Applying a time-weighted case capture average of 1 in 6.5 to the cumulative 28 million confirmed cases would mean *about 55% of Americans have natural immunity*.​​Now add people getting vaccinated. As of this week, 15% of Americans have received the vaccine, and the figure is rising fast. Former Food and Drug Commissioner Scott Gottlieb estimates 250 million doses will have been delivered to some *150 million people by the end of March*.​There is reason to think the country is racing toward an extremely low level of infection. As more people have been infected, most of whom have mild or no symptoms, there are fewer Americans left to be infected. At the current trajectory, I expect Covid will be mostly gone by April, allowing Americans to resume normal life.​​
*Antibody studies almost certainly underestimate natural immunity. Antibody testing doesn’t capture antigen-specific T-cells, which develop “memory” once they are activated by the virus*. Survivors of the 1918 Spanish flu were found in 2008—90 years later—to have memory cells still able to produce neutralizing antibodies.​​Researchers at Sweden’s Karolinska Institute found that the percentage of people mounting a T-cell response after mild or asymptomatic Covid-19 infection consistently exceeded the percentage with detectable antibodies. T-cell immunity was even present in people who were exposed to infected family members but never developed symptoms. A group of U.K. scientists in September pointed out that the medical community may be under-appreciating the prevalence of immunity from activated T-cells.​​Covid-19 deaths in the U.S. would also suggest much broader immunity than recognized. About 1 in 600 Americans has died of Covid-19, which translates to a population fatality rate of about 0.15%. The Covid-19 infection fatality rate is about 0.23%. *These numbers indicate that roughly two-thirds of the U.S. population has had the infection.*​​In my own conversations with medical experts, I have noticed that they too often *dismiss natural immunity, arguing that we don’t have data.* The data certainly doesn’t fit the classic randomized-controlled-trial model of the old-guard medical establishment.* There’s no control group. But the observational data is compelling.*​​I have argued for months that we could save more American lives if those with prior Covid-19 infection forgo vaccines until all vulnerable seniors get their first dose. Several studies demonstrate that natural immunity should protect those who had Covid-19 until more vaccines are available. Half my friends in the medical community told me: Good idea. The other half said there isn’t enough data on natural immunity, despite the fact that reinfections have occurred in less than 1% of people—and when they do occur, the cases are mild.​​But the consistent and rapid decline in daily cases since Jan. 8 can be explained only by natural immunity. Behavior didn’t suddenly improve over the holidays; Americans traveled more over Christmas than they had since March. Vaccines also don’t explain the steep decline in January. Vaccination rates were low and they take weeks to kick in.​​My prediction that *Covid-19 will be mostly gone by April is based on laboratory data, mathematical data, published literature and conversations with experts.* But it’s also based on direct observation of how hard testing has been to get, especially for the poor. If you live in a wealthy community where worried people are vigilant about getting tested, you might think that most infections are captured by testing. But if you have seen the many barriers to testing for low-income Americans, you might think that very few infections have been captured at testing centers. *Keep in mind that most infections are asymptomatic, which still triggers natural immunity.*​​Many experts, along with politicians and journalists, are afraid to talk about herd immunity. The term has political overtones because some suggested the U.S. simply let Covid rip to achieve herd immunity. That was a reckless idea. But herd immunity is the inevitable result of viral spread and vaccination. When the chain of virus transmission has been broken in multiple places, it’s harder for it to spread—and that includes the new strains.​​Herd immunity has been well-documented in the Brazilian city of Manaus, where researchers in the Lancet reported the prevalence of prior Covid-19 infection to be 76%, resulting in a significant slowing of the infection. Doctors are watching a new strain that threatens to evade prior immunity. But countries where new variants have emerged, such as the U.K., South Africa and Brazil, are also seeing significant declines in daily new cases. The risk of new variants mutating around the prior vaccinated or natural immunity should be a reminder that Covid-19 will persist for decades after the pandemic is over. It should also instill a sense of urgency to develop, authorize and administer a vaccine targeted to new variants.​​Some medical experts privately agreed with my prediction that there may be very little Covid-19 by April but suggested that I not to talk publicly about herd immunity because people might become complacent and fail to take precautions or might decline the vaccine. But scientists shouldn’t try to manipulate the public by hiding the truth. As we encourage everyone to get a vaccine, we also need to reopen schools and society to limit the damage of closures and prolonged isolation. Contingency planning for an open economy by April can deliver hope to those in despair and to those who have made large personal sacrifices. ​​_Dr. Makary is a professor at the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine and Bloomberg School of Public Health, chief medical adviser to Sesame Care, and author of “The Price We Pay.”_​​


----------



## Melensdad

Also of NOTE, data coming out of Israel, the nation with the highest level of vaccination in the world, *primarily using the Pfizer vaccine.*

Sample size is 500,000 people!  

After 1 injection of Pfizer's 2 part vaccine people had 90% immunity and are expected to retain that for up to 6 months.  Again that is only with 1 of the 2 doses administered.  Zero hospitalizations 21 days after first injection.  It does take a few weeks for the body to build immunity so people are still at risk for a couple weeks after the 1st shot.  But the data is astounding in that just 1 shot can keep people out fo the hospital.  

Data also shows that just 1 shot dramatically reduces severe Covid.  Oddly, it is less effective on mild covid.

At this point we can't extrapolate this data and apply it to the otters brands of vaccine. 

The USA is following a 2 shot strategy while the UK is following a 1 shot strategy.  The FDA has looked at some data, but currently choosiest stay with the 2 dose strategy, with 2nd dose following 3 weeks {Pfizer} or 4 weeks [Moderna] after the 1st dose.  The UK switched to the 1 dose strategy about a month ago and is working to give 1 dose to as many as possible ASAP and plans to give a 2nd dose out 3+ months after the first was administered.  If there is a race for herd immunity, one can presume the UK strategy will get them there quicker.  The UK took a serious gamble and data shows their gamble may pay off.  Fortunately.

USA - 12.5% have 1st vaccination, roughly 5% have 2 vaccinations
UK - 24.6% have 1st vaccination, but 0.9% have 2nd vaccination


----------



## Melensdad

I got Covid shot 2 this afternoon.  Moderna.  It was a little over 5 hours ago.  No pain at the injection site.  Nothing else noticeable at this point in time.  

——————————————

Germany and Italy are experiencing increasing cases of Covid while the US and many other nations are seeing decreasing Covid cases.  both nations are under lockdowns and both are worried about a 3rd wave

Boris Johnson, PM in England, suggests that the U.K. could return to “normal” by Mid-Summer of this year.  

Infections in highly vaccinated Israel are dropping at roughly the same rate that infections in the largely un-vaccinated Palestinian territory are dropping.  Hmmm?

——————————————

The United Nations is reporting that 2020 was officially the worst year for tourism in modern history.  The impact, on nations from Thailand to Iceland are economically devastating.   I’m just wondering out loud if tourist dependent nations will begin pushing for Covid Vaccination Passports to reopen their income streams.


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## Melensdad

18 hours after Moderna shot #2 ... no side effects other than I'm still old and still crabby.  So it didn't fix that.


----------



## Melensdad

I should not go out to eat in public, despite being fully vaccinated.
I should not go to a movie theatre, despite being fully vaccinated.
So says Dr Anthony Fauci.
If true, then what the heck good is the vaccination?  I likely won't get sick.  Which is the whole point of the vaccine.  Should life now begin to return to normal?  Granted society still has a way to go before enough people get vaccinated but damn.  They want to sit down and start thinking about modifying rules.  What the heck have they been doing?

And its all just "for the vaccinated" that will see these freedoms return.  So does that mean vaccine passports?

VIDEOS at the link ; https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/fauci-us-may-soon-ease-rules-fully-vaccinated

Fauci Says US May Soon Ease Rules... For The Vaccinated​BY TYLER DURDEN
TUESDAY, FEB 23, 2021 - 11:15
Anthony Fauci, the nation's top infectious diseases specialist (and highest-paid government employee), says that while we may still be wearing masks in 2022, those who have received a COVID-19 vaccine may be able to enjoy 'eased' public health protocols, according to _Bloomberg_.



"When you say, wait a minute, if I’m fully vaccinated, and my daughter comes in the house and she’s fully vaccinated, do we really" need the same strict rules? Fauci said during a Tuesday interview with _CNN_. "*Common sense tells you that, in fact, you don’t have to be as stringent in your public health measures*."

That said, Fauci - President Biden's top medical adviser, said he didn't want to get ahead of the CDC's advice, which he said could be forthcoming, and should "relax the stringency of the recommendations," particularly when it comes to family members who have been vaccinated.

When host Alisyn Camerota asked Fauci whether fully vaccinated people should be able to get together with family indoors, Fauci responded that he would be comfortable with that, but that some of the discussions currently taking place "were not very comfortable.

According to Fauci, however, the CDC wants to "sit down, talk about it, look at the data and then come out with a recommendation based on the science."

On Monday, Fauci recommended that fully vaccinated people *still shouldn't dine indoors or go to theaters yet*.


----------



## mla2ofus

This BS just keeps getting deeper and deeper!! I've long been of the opinion fauci is nothing but a little weasel. The comparison of Florida and California is pretty plain to see.


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## Melensdad

mla2ofus said:


> This BS just keeps getting deeper and deeper!! I've long been of the opinion fauci is nothing but a little weasel. The comparison of Florida and California is pretty plain to see.


I think FLA Governor DeSantis may be the heir to the Trump legacy.

Florida has a huge elderly population and, unlike NY Gov Cuomo, Florida did not commit genocide.  Nor did Florida destroy its economy or the lives of its citizens. Comparing CA Gov Newsom to DeSantis is really sort of a joke, well what I really mean is that Newsom is a total joke and may not survive a recall ballot for his multitude of failures. 

I certainly questioned some of Florida's choices but they really need to be held up as a model state for Covid done properly.


----------



## Melensdad

Two things that have been recently mentioned that are now in the news.

*STORY #1*

Governor Ron DeSantis of Florida may be the most demonized hero on the planet today.  This is just a small part of the article.  The National Review has the full article and it exposes much of the media's bias with photos and video, plus the full story.  LINK => https://www.nationalreview.com/2021...hing-the-press-accused-ron-desantis-of-being/


From the outset of the pandemic, New York State has had the highest number of deaths of any state and still does (47,000), and the second-highest deaths-per-million of anywhere in the country. In contrast, Florida is right around the national average for deaths-per-million. Journalists brushed right by these top-line numbers in the interest of their tendentious narrative-building.​​They erupted in outrage when DeSantis was allegedly slow to close the beaches last March but didn’t dwell much on Cuomo saying, when the virus was already spreading throughout his state: “The facts defeat fear. Because the reality is reassuring.”​​They accused DeSantis of unnecessarily endangering seniors when the Florida governor took steps to protect the nursing homes, and Andrew Cuomo, infamously, ordered nursing homes to accept COVID-19 patients.​​They claimed DeSantis was rejecting the “science” by, among other things, pushing to reopen the schools, an approach that has proved out. Meanwhile, experts have fled the New York public-health bureaucracy in response to Cuomo’s highhandedness.​​They bought the bogus story of a Florida data manager who was supposedly persecuted for blowing the whistle on the state’s manipulation of its COVID numbers, when, of course, this is exactly what Cuomo was doing.​​And so, the media’s anointed hero of the pandemic — who wrote a book on his own exemplary pandemic response, who won a Grammy, who was elevated to an authority with the standing to comment on how the country was handling COVID-19 — is facing calls to resign or face impeachment and is the subject of multiple investigations, while his routine bullying of critics is now out in the open.​​Not only are none of these things happening to Ron DeSantis, his policy of avoiding strict lockdowns, which occasioned so much criticism, has avoided the educational and economic downsides of Cuomo’s policies. According to Florida data, the state offers more in-person education than any other state, and it has a lower unemployment rate than the national average and other populous states. This matters greatly to the well-being of Floridians.​

*STORY #2*

Recently there has been more talk about COVID PASSPORTS, today I see this story, which is going to keep the anti-vax crowd locked up as prisoners in their own countries. 

Again, this is just part of the story, see the full article for more details.  But it looks like more and more countries are considering this.  Our own President Biden even floated the idea for Americans to be able to travel between states.  From the France24 news service: https://www.france24.com/en/europe/...-passports-critics-raise-discrimination-fears
​​As more governments mull vaccine passports, critics raise discrimination fears​23/02/2021 - 19:06​​Amid a rollout of coronavirus vaccines, technology and health firms are working on ways that people get digital certificates to be displayed on smartphones to show proof of inoculation. Kenzo Tribouillard AFP/File​With vaccinations well under way, governments are increasingly seeing vaccination “passports” – or other forms of Covid-19 status certificates – as a way out of the cycles of shutdowns and curfews that have made many prisoners in their own homes and ground global industry to a near halt.  ​​The certificates would enable people to present proof of vaccination and thus skip quarantine protocols when arriving in a new country.​​Some countries have already introduced such policies, with Iceland becoming the first European nation to issue vaccine certificates in late January. Greece on Tuesday unveiled a digital vaccination certificate for those who have received two doses of the vaccine. Among the countries that are currently issuing or asking for vaccine certificates are Cyprus, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Hungary, Italy, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Spain and Sweden.​​Across the English Channel, Prime Minister Boris Johnson announced Monday his government would consider Covid-19 “status certificates” as a pathway out of the health crisis. . . ​


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## EastTexFrank

We get our second shot tomorrow afternoon and just this afternoon we got a call from NETHealth saying our names had come up and would be called to set up an appointment for this week in Tyler, 30 miles away.  They do the drive through vaccinations in the car park.  My wife called and cancelled that one.  

Our local Brookshire's pharmacy is giving vaccination shots at the rate of 10 or 12 a day.  The person giving the shots is doing them in addition to their other normal duties.  Even in a town of less than 5K people you're not going to make many inroads at that rate.  What has become obvious over the last few weeks is that many older people are being left out of the system  They either do not have a computer or they are not computer literate enough to make their way through the maze that is the online registration system.  I wouldn't say that it is a mess but it can be very confusing and frustrating.  My wife is organizing things at the local library and mobilizing friends and helpers to get them registered and on a list to be vaccinated. 

As for Dr Faucci, that little gnome lost my faith 8 months ago.  I wouldn't believe a darned word he says.  He's just another self important little bureaucrat hooked on the power and notoriety that the situation has given him.  I wish that I could vaccinate my TV so that he never appears again.


----------



## Melensdad

EastTexFrank said:


> ...  What has become obvious over the last few weeks is that* many older people are being left out of the system * They either do not have a computer or they are not computer literate enough to make their way through the maze that is the online registration system...



Not sure what other states are doing, honestly I watch Illinois news and don't pay much attention to how they sign up for the vaccine, but here in Indiana we can call 2-1-1 or we can log onto a website.  

While Indiana is generally considered a backwards-flyover state occupied by farmers and hicks, *Indiana makes things really simple *and targets age groups, which makes things really simple.  In fact today I got 3 notices to get a vaccine.  1 was a text message from the state.  1 was a message from my clinic.  1 was an email from the state.  A care-giver can even sign up a parent if they are unable to access the phone or website.  Maybe its not perfect, certainly it misses some people, but I think its pretty good.  

Obviously given that I got my shot at 4:05pm Central Time yesterday, the state website was not updated with the fact that I was already vaccinated.  The nurse actually logged my vaccine into the website in front of me and corrected my birth date, which was originally put in incorrectly, so I'm pretty confident in our system here.  

Tennessee is in serious trouble, they are throwing away THOUSANDS of vaccine, even in the Memphis area.  It's a terrible shame.  I think people should be resigning there.


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## Melensdad

So its Wednesday morning now. The farting and diarrhea have pretty much ended. Moderna shot #2 was taken in the late afternoon on Monday. Picked up 20 White Castles on my way home.

Apparently there was some reaction between the entire bag of White Castle cheeseburgers, with everything + extra onions, and the Moderna vaccine. Don't let anyone tell you these vaccines are not dangerous I've never had so much stomach discomfort from White Castle burgers before. Then again I don't think I ever ate 12 White Castles in one day. Seriously considering notifying the FDA about this vaccine issue, they should warn people.

So ... just beware


----------



## Ceee

EastTexFrank said:


> What has become obvious over the last few weeks is that many older people are being left out of the system They either do not have a computer or they are not computer literate enough to make their way through the maze that is the online registration system. I wouldn't say that it is a mess but it can be very confusing and frustrating.


Yes , and they need to find some fix for that problem.


EastTexFrank said:


> My wife is organizing things at the local library and mobilizing friends and helpers to get them registered and on a list to be vaccinated.


Kudos to Wonder Woman again
......................................

Note to self:  Don't eat 12 White Castles after getting the vaccine


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## NorthernRedneck

Numbers are on the rise where I live and it's looking like another lockdown is in the near future. There's been several cases popping up in the schools but the government still maintains that the schools are safer than having the kids at home. When at Christmas time, they claimed the opposite and even kept them home for the first week of January to homeschool. Now, they decided to postpone spring break into April to keep the kids where it's safe. Meanwhile the rest of us will be in lockdown at home where it's safe. Vaccinations are very slowly being administered due to a shortage of them.


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## Melensdad

NorthernRedneck said:


> Numbers are on the rise where I live and it's looking like another lockdown is in the near future.* There's been several cases popping up in the schools but the government still maintains that the schools are safer than having the kids at home. *When at Christmas time, they claimed the opposite and even kept them home for the first week of January to homeschool. Now, they decided to postpone spring break into April to keep the kids where it's safe. Meanwhile the rest of us will be in lockdown at home where it's safe. Vaccinations are very slowly being administered due to a shortage of them.


Here in my local school district we have had quite a few parents send their sick, infected kids to school.  However, we have actually had almost no cases of Covid being spread INSIDE the school or on the school buses.  We had a big outbreak at our middle school, it was tied to events that occurred at a few households.  It actually shut down the whole school for 2 weeks because there were so many teachers exposed as "close contacts" to the students that there were not enough substitute teachers to fill in for them while they sat at home in quarantine.  I don't believe any of the exposed teachers ended up testing positive.  

Now I prefaced that by saying_ "my local school district" _because at least here in Indiana each district sets its own rules and protocols.

But nationally our CDC shows plenty of data saying that spreading the disease is not really a big issue in the schools.  Below the age of 12 _(approximately)_ there is minimal community transmission of Covid.  As children age their lungs develop and the risk increases.  So the risks are greater at the high school level.  Many of the school districts have chosen to make high school a part-time in person program with 1/2 the kids going 2 days, the other half going 2 days, and everyone off on Friday for e-learning.


----------



## Melensdad

Ane we will have a 3rd Vaccine in the USA in a few days, 20 Million doses by the end of March for this vaccine, on top of the doses from Pfizer and Moderna.

This is less effective than the others but it offers serious advantages.  It is a SINGLE dose shot, it also can be shipped through NORMAL drug shipment channels without the need for specialized freezers.  

Given the NEW variants that are spreading around, and given that some are becoming the dominant strains, having more doses of anything, even if somewhat less effective, helps slow or stop the spread while also getting us closer to herd immunity.  Personally if this was my only option I'd gladly take it.  Some protection is better than none.  And tests showed if you do get Covid after taking this shot the disease is much milder, dramatically lowering risks of hospitalization or complications, and to my mind that is a win.









						J&J’s Covid-19 Vaccine Is Safe and Effective, FDA Says, Paving Way for Approval
					

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration said Johnson & Johnson’s single-dose Covid-19 vaccine works safely, paving the way for the approval of a third vaccine in the U.S. as early as this weekend.




					www.wsj.com
				




The U.S. Food and Drug Administration said Johnson & Johnson ’s *single-dose Covid-19 vaccine* works safely, paving the way for the approval of a third vaccine in the U.S. as early as this weekend.​​*The vaccine was 66.1% effective in preventing moderate to severe disease* and appeared safe, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration said Wednesday, and the shot also showed tantalizing signs of slowing the spread of the virus.​​J&J’s shot would be the third cleared for use in the U.S., as health authorities pick up the pace of vaccinations and try to lock in gains reducing daily cases, hospitalizations and deaths while staying ahead of any new variants that threaten to evade treatment.​. . .​


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## NorthernRedneck

We WERE doing ok as far as numbers go. It got into the nursing homes and one in particular had 23 deaths. But just when it was getting under control, it made its way into both jails here. Then when they started releasing prisoners into the community without a plan, it made it's way into the homeless community. Now just how in the heck do you force a homeless person to quarantine or wear a mask etc?  

And many cases were caused by travel. Not necessarily driving. But people still flying internationally into hot spots and returning. Sure, the borders are closed for non essential vehicles. What people have been doing is hiring a shipping company to transport their vehicles across the border then flying south to the nearest airport and picking up their vehicles and driving south.


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## EastTexFrank

We got our second shots today.  The UT Health Center in Tyler impressed me with their organization on our first visit for our vaccine shots.  This time it doubly impressed me.  We were there for shift change and it was slicker than snot.  During our 15 minute observation period one whole crew got up, lined up and marched on out.  Another crew came marching in, slipped in to the vacated chairs and things carried right on without skipping a beat, just like a drill team.

I was also surprised how few people were there today.  I was told that it was because today was set aside for second shots and emergency care workers.  I don't see why that would make such a big difference but I do know that we were in and out of there in less than 25 minutes and that included the 15 minute observation period.

Both my SILs had uncomfortable reactions to their second shots, nothing serious just muscle aches, temperatures and nausea, almost like the flu that lasted about 24 hours.  Both got the Moderna vaccine while we both got the Pfizer.  I don't know if that is relevant or not.  So far neither my wife or I have had any reaction to the shots.  We both have slight discomfort at the injection site but that's about all.  We'll see what tomorrow brings.  We'll wait a couple of weeks and then start moving our lives back to some kind of normalcy.  We'll still take precautions when out and about but we will be out and about.  My only question now is, *"How long does this vaccine last?*

Oh, I forgot to mention that cases in our area continue to drop.  I have not seen any reasonable explanation why.  We are down to a level that I haven't seen since at least the middle of last year.  Strange, since over the last week or two mask wearing has almost been abandoned by the majority of people.


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## Melensdad

Frank, good to hear it was so smooth and organized. 

Your area, like ALL of the USA, is experiencing drops in cases.  I was actually surprised to hear that NorthernRedneck's area is on the upswing given proximity to the US and the decline in US case, just figured it was going down there too.

*Interesting that your area is also abandoning masks.*  I see the same inside the town of Lowell.  The local Aldi store has the required "MASKS MUST BE WORN TO ENTER" but as soon as you get inside you find that maybe 40% of the people wear them, the cashiers have them drooping down their faces, hanging from 1 ear, etc.  The cashier simply said "we don't enforce that here."  

I've been to 3 other Aldi stores in the past 30 days and never saw anything less than 100% mask wearing in those towns.  

To my mind the difference is that Lowell is the only truly RURAL town left in our county.  Every other town in the country has become a commuter town.  Lowell still retains a large agricultural base, it is physically distant, by miles, from every other city/town in the county, and seems to follow its own rules.  So maybe, your local town is like mine?  They feel separated from the problem?

I still contend that GOOD MASKS, used properly, actually work.  But moth people wear ineffective cotton fashion masks, have probably washed them exactly ZERO times in the past year, and lay them down on unclean surfaces, touch them inside & out, etc and then say "...but I wore my mask."


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Two thirds of US COVID-19 hospitalizations may been preventable
					

All four conditions are largely preventable through diet and exercise - meaning two thirds of 906,000 hospitalizations likely would have been too, the Tufts University researchers write.




					www.dailymail.co.uk


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Melensdad said:


> But moth people wear ineffective cotton fashion masks, have probably washed them exactly ZERO times in the past year, and lay them down on unclean surfaces, touch them inside & out, etc and then say "...but I wore my mask."


Those "moth people" are a scourge on our society.


----------



## Melensdad

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq said:


> Two thirds of US COVID-19 hospitalizations may been preventable
> 
> 
> All four conditions are largely preventable through diet and exercise - meaning two thirds of 906,000 hospitalizations likely would have been too, the Tufts University researchers write.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk


I'm really surprised this did not include anything on Vitamin D

Even people with underlying conditions, who have sufficient Vitamin D levels, tend not to end up in the hospital.  Vitamin D is cheap and as long as its taken daily, in sufficient quantities, tends to have outstanding effectiveness against moderate and severe Covid.


----------



## EastTexFrank

Melensdad said:


> I'm really surprised this did not include anything on Vitamin D



So am I.  There were studies quite a while back that showed that vitamin D deficiency contributed to the seriousness of the Covid symptoms.  It was the same with hydroxychloroquine.  Simple, cheap, readily available precautionary drugs and supplements don't make billions for big pharma.  I am really cynical about some of the stuff that has gone on during this pandemic. 

A couple of years ago my doctor put me on a vitamin D supplement because I was deficient and also recommended a multi-vitamin just because of my age.  I don't know if either helped me avoid Covid but it certainly didn't hurt.  I sometimes feel that we avoid the simple answer because society has programed us to believe that high tech answers are always better.  I always remember the story of NASA spending millions of dollars to develop a pen that would write in the vacuum of space.  The Russians used a pencil.


----------



## Ceee

EastTexFrank said:


> I always remember the story of NASA spending millions of dollars to develop a pen that would write in the vacuum of space. The Russians used a pencil.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

The majority of cases where I live stem from the jails and homeless community. Pretty hard to control those populations. Well, in jail they can control it but the problem lies with the courts as these inmates have "rights" once they're released from jail. So letting them out then telling them they have to self quarantine upon release is difficult. 

On another note, there have been cases in the schools as I mentioned earlier. So the kids are all going back to homeschooling starting Monday. This should be interesting. A house under construction during the day with a house full of kids.


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## pirate_girl

https://spectrumnews1.com/oh/columbus/news/2021/02/25/ohio-proms-banquets-weddings-fairs-festivals-parades?firebaseString=true?referrer=utm_source=ko_zkkpnmlqx679eky9m&utm_campaign={campaign_id}%26utm_medium%3D{site_id}


Ohio to Allow Proms, Banquets, Weddings, Fairs, Festivals, and Parades


----------



## NorthernRedneck

Another 60 cases reported for today and one death. We're not going in the right direction.


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## EastTexFrank

I did end up having a reaction to the second Covid vaccine shot.  On the day of the shot I felt just fine.  I woke up on Tuesday morning feeling definitely "off color".  I had a slight headache, I was cold and shivery all day even though the outside temperature was in the mid '60s and I was very tired but my temperature was close to normal.  It did feel a little bit like the start of the  flu.  I took 2 Tylenol PM and went to bed early.  I woke up at 02:30 absolutely soaked in sweat.  I got changed and cleaned up and went back to sleep.  This morning everything is just dandy.  A quick shower and I feel fine.  I guess that I had a low grade fever that broke during the night.  

It's strange because a friend down in Conroe, Texas had the same reaction only his temperature soared to over 100° and he spent one night in hospital.


----------



## Melensdad

NorthernRedneck said:


> Another 60 cases reported for today and one death. We're not going in the right direction.


Meanwhile here in Indiana our cases are dropping.  Hospitalizations are dropping.  Deaths are dropping.

We are approximately 550,000 residents with 2 doses of the vaccine in their arms.  And roughly 950,000 with 1 dose.  

Each of our counties are rated on a scale of 0, 1, 2 or 3 for severity of Covid.  3 being the worst.  My county, which is one of the most populated in the state, was dropped to to a "1" for Covid.  The county south of me, which is fully rural, is now dropped to a "0" for Covid.

One bit of personal bad news with Covid is that there was an outbreak on the Notre Dame Fencing Team this week.  Some idiot kids went out and celebrated Sunday night after the ND team beat the Northwestern Univ team.  They caught Covid and brought it back to the team and spread it around.  The team was supposed to fly to the ACC Fencing Championships this morning.  I got a call from Dasha early this morning about 7:30.  She was all packed up and heading to leave campus to go to the airport with the team and they got a text from their coach.  They withdrew from the competition due to Covid.  Dasha was exposed through the teammates but she was NOT one who went out, she did not test positive but the tracing data shows she is at risk.  Notre Dame was heavily favored to WIN the TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP TITLE, and heavily favored to win 4 of the 6 individual titles.  Dasha had a pretty strong chance of winning the national title for the ACC for Women's Saber.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

Part of the problem is the availability of the vaccine up here. They're still working on immunization for essential workers and seniors. They're all excited about reporting a clinic that will handle 500 people a day for vaccinations. With a population base of 150000 people in the area, do the math on how long before the general public receives it. At this rate it'll be 2022 before I'm eligible.


----------



## Melensdad

I'm surprised that Thunder Bay has that many people!  But I'm also sort of shocked that it will take so long to vaccinate that many people.  

The US is not vaccinating at light speed, but I think we are doing a pretty decent job overall.  I do think we are making a mistake by given 2 doses of vaccine to everyone instead of delaying shot #2 and getting 1 shot into the arms of more people.  But I suppose the FDA is smarter than me.  Its just that if the goal is to keep people out of the hospital then the data is really showing that the 1st shot accomplishes that all by itself and the second shot, if delayed 75-90 days, would allow millions more to get the 1st shot.  

The UK is delaying shot #2 and getting more people vaccinated.  The theory is that it will reduce the burden on the healthcare system.  It seems to be working.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

Thunder bay is officially listed at 115000 people but the surrounding communities within a couple hours drive factored in brings it up to about 150000. Most smaller communities have a regional hospital but none are equipped to handle serious cases. So if you get injured or sick, you're looking at either an air ambulance or a land transport to the city. And part of the issue then is that back in the 90s, there were 4 main hospitals in the city. But they closed them and built one main hospital designed to service a population base of 95k people. That created a huge backlog.


----------



## Melensdad

And on Monday the US will have a 3rd vaccine. The more the merrier as we race toward herd immunity. Can’t get there fast enough. 





__





						Zerohedge
					

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero




					www.zerohedge.com
				





FDA Panel Unanimously Endorses J&J Covid Vaccine​While it was so widely expected the announcement was merely a formality, just after 5pm on Friday the FDA Advisory Panel voted unanimously (22-0) to endorse the (one-shot, no mRNA) J&J vaccine, saying the benefits outweigh the risks, and recommended the agency grant emergency authorization, moving the nation's third vaccine one step closer to getting into Americans' arms.

The vaccine was 66% effective in protecting any cases of moderate to severe illness. It was 85% effective against severe cases of COVID-19 and completely prevented hospitalizations and death, four weeks after inoculation.


----------



## pirate_girl

Cases, reported incidents of vaccine reactions are LOW here, DeWine is ready to open up, the people are screaming open up now.
I agree with him for a change.
Ohio counties are still showing as red or orange. I have to question that.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

They just announced that my region is going back to full lockdown on Monday. Well, that's what they're calling it. All retail will be open for business as usual with reduced numbers allowed inside.  About the only difference is that the gyms and all personal care services such as hair salons will be closed. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. This will do absolutely nothing to slow the spread when it's the seniors homes, jails, and homeless population that's experiencing a rise in cases. This is like forcing you to get castrated because your neighbor has too many kids.


----------



## EastTexFrank

*"This is like forcing you to get castrated because your neighbor has too many kids."*

That's a very good analogy.  It's been shown that lockdowns don't work so why do we keep on doing it?  Beats me.  Stupid people are going to do what stupid people do.

I can't speak about nationally, I can't even speak about statewide but I know that in my little neck of the Piney Woods things are ramping up.  UT Health in Tyler, when they started vaccinating, were making 10 appointments every 15 minutes.  When my wife and I went through for our first shots they had increased that to 15 appointments every 15 minutes and when we were there on Wednesday they were preparing to step it up to 25 appointments every 15 minutes for 12 hours a day, depending on the availability of the vaccine.  That's 1200 people a day getting shot up in one facility. 

The local CVS in our little town started vaccinations this week.  When I drove past there today the car park was full.  I don't know what their daily throughput is but every little helps.  I checked their website when I got home and they are making no more appointments until early March.  The bottleneck seems to be the availability and distribution of the vaccine.


----------



## Melensdad

EastTexFrank said:


> . . . I checked their website when I got home and they are making no more appointments until early March.  *The bottleneck seems to be the availability* and *distribution *of the vaccine.


I'm not so sure that is the big reason.  It is a major problem.

With the mandated 15 minute wait time before going home, to see if a patient goes into shock, *some of the backlog is caused by lack of parking space.*

Honestly if you have a 4 person team working vaccinations, 2 to log you into the computer & watch you after your shot, 1 to talk to you pre-shot, 1 to give you a shot, then they should be able to vaccinate 1 person every minute or two.  So let's say 30 patients an hour just for the sake of conversation, that is 1 person every 2 minutes.  What CVS has that many parking places to deal with the influx-outgo of all those people while also making a bunch of people wait for 15 minutes? 

The clinic we got our shots at was doing about 1 shot every 2 or 3 minutes.  It shared a lot with a supermarket and a few other businesses and there were people waiting in cars outside just to pull into a spot when someone pulled out.  Inside, despite having a waiting room set up specifically for vaccinations, they had standing room only because there were not enough seats.

Now to your point, the "doses" are stored and allocated out.  Some of that may well be due to the freezer problem, certainly no doubt of that.  But I honestly think if they sent 1000 doses to the local CSV on Tuesday there would be a traffic jam at the CVS and they could not get the shots administered due to the "15 minute wait" rule to see if they have a reaction.

I know that some areas have set up DRIVE IN vaccination sites.  Those are typically at sports venues with huge parking lots.  A line funnels traffic in, you get a shot through the window of your car, you go park for 15 minutes, then you leave.  A place like that can handle 1000 or more shots a day.  Chicago's UNITED CENTER is setting up a mass vaccination site.  It is said to be able to do 6000/day once it gets up and running.  It will have car vaccinations + walk in vaccinations.  But it is surrounded by acres of parking lots, serviced by bus routes, etc.


----------



## m1west

NorthernRedneck said:


> They just announced that my region is going back to full lockdown on Monday. Well, that's what they're calling it. All retail will be open for business as usual with reduced numbers allowed inside.  About the only difference is that the gyms and all personal care services such as hair salons will be closed. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. This will do absolutely nothing to slow the spread when it's the seniors homes, jails, and homeless population that's experiencing a rise in cases. This is like forcing you to get castrated because your neighbor has too many kids.


Just elect Biden as PM and it will suddenly vanish.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Canada has no vaccine manufacturing capabilities (or very limited).  They are solely reliant on importing the vaccine.  Combine that with the Trudeau government's general incompetence and the fact that they like to oppress the common people and you get the situation in Canada.

At the end of the day Canada is getting what they deserve for electing the liberals.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq said:


> Canada has no vaccine manufacturing capabilities (or very limited).  They are solely reliant on importing the vaccine.  Combine that with the Trudeau government's general incompetence and the fact that they like to oppress the common people and you get the situation in Canada.
> 
> At the end of the day Canada is getting what they deserve for electing the liberals.


Not everyone voted for them. But that's a debate for another topic. All I can say about that is it doesn't matter what the rest of the country wants as the whole area surrounding Toronto has the majority of seats needed for the vote and let's be honest. Trudeau has been bring in immigrants by the plane full and giving them handouts in order to buy their votes.


----------



## m1west

Just read today, we now have the California mutation. Way more contagious and deadly, yet the numbers drop.


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> Just read today, we now have the California mutation. Way more contagious and deadly, yet the numbers drop.


California mutation, UK/Kent mutation and South African mutation are all more contagious. NOT more deadly.  At least not that I have seen.


----------



## Ceee

This was on Fox News Rundown Extra this morning - What You Need to Know About the Covid Variants and Vaccines.








						FOX News Rundown
					

The FOX News Rundown is a news-based daily morning podcast. Each morning, Mike Emanuel, Alex Hogan, Dave Anthony, Lisa Brady, Jessica Rosenthal and Chris Foster take a deep dive into the major and controversial stories of the day, tapping into the massive reporting resources of FOX News to provide a



					radio.foxnews.com
				



I thought it was really interesting.  He discussed the different variants and which of the available vaccines he thought were best and why.  
They didn't have a full printable version, and I'm not smart to add things from a podcast.


----------



## Ceee

The guy in the podcast above mentioned the FDA withholding approval of the Astrazeneca Vaccine, so I was curious as to why.

https://fortune.com/2021/02/26/astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-fda-approval/


----------



## Melensdad

Ceee said:


> The guy in the podcast above mentioned the FDA withholding approval of the Astrazeneca Vaccine, so I was curious as to why.
> 
> https://fortune.com/2021/02/26/astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-fda-approval/


Honestly I think it is because the OX/AZ vaccine is a non-profit.  
So the money motive is gone.
Who get's paid off if the OX/AZ vaccine is approved?


----------



## Ceee

Melensdad said:


> Honestly I think it is because the OX/AZ vaccine is a non-profit.
> So the money motive is gone.
> Who get's paid off if the OX/AZ vaccine is approved?



Non-profit for the US?  I'm just asking the question because I'm still trying to learn about all this.

Are you saying that the FDA is possibly stalling because they want the US vaccine producers to get the profit instead of giving the money to some company outside the US?  If that's the case, I'm not sure that's the right thing to do, but I can see a political motive for doing that.

I still haven't even had my first vaccine yet, but if I had the luxury of choosing one, it would be Pfizer.


----------



## Melensdad

Ceee said:


> Non-profit for the US?  I'm just asking the question because I'm still trying to learn about all this.
> 
> Are you saying that the FDA is possibly stalling because they want the US vaccine producers to get the profit instead of giving the money to some company outside the US?  If that's the case, I'm not sure that's the right thing to do, but I can see a political motive for doing that.
> 
> I still haven't even had my first vaccine yet, but if I had the luxury of choosing one, it would be Pfizer.


The Oxford/AstraZenica group said they would sell their covid vaccine to any nation on earth, at the cost of production only, for the duration of the pandemic.  Once the pandemic is over, they will start charging for their vaccine at market prices, if there is a market.  They also said they would "license" the manufacture of their vaccine for free to any pharmaceutical manufacturing plant in the world during the duration of the pandemic. One can also presume they will profit on 'booster' shots, in the future, if they are required, etc. 

I'm saying that Moderna (which is partially owned by Fauci) and the other companies have a fiscal interest in selling the most doses they can sell. And if they can use their "influence" to stall the approval of a non-profit vaccine then they make money.  Simple.  Clear.  Obvious.

As for the choice between the Pfizer and the Moderna, I had the choice, it didn't matter to me.

Both use the same general mRNA technology.  Either is as effect as the other on the original strain.  Moderna might have more success against the S.A. strain, Pfizer might have more success against the Kent/UK strain, not clear if either has an advantage over the California or Brazilian mutations.  In any case the differences are negligible.  Pfizer seems to have more reported cases of side effects after the second shot (24 hours of fatigue), but I'm not sure that is overwhelmingly different either.


----------



## Ceee

Melensdad said:


> I'm saying that Moderna (*which is partially owned by Fauci)* and the other companies have a fiscal interest in selling the most doses they can sell. And if they can use their "influence" to stall the approval of a non-profit vaccine then they make money. Simple. Clear. Obvious.


Thanks, I got it now.  I certainly didn't know that Moderna was partially owned by Fauci.


----------



## pirate_girl

I think I've finally convinced both my sons to get vaccinated.
Jeff said he feels better now about the single dose Johnson & Johnson because they didn't just rush it out like Pfizer and Moderna.
Ty is still on the fence though, he thinks it's all bullshit and has from the beginning.
I don't think it has been, but the counties around here still showing red makes no sense to me, and we're very relaxed where I work with the masks and family visits happening again.


----------



## Melensdad

pirate_girl said:


> I think I've finally convinced both my sons to get vaccinated.
> Jeff said he feels better now about the single dose Johnson & Johnson because they didn't just rush it out like Pfizer and Moderna.
> Ty is still on the fence though, he thinks it's all bullshit and has from the beginning.
> I don't think it has been, but the counties around here still showing red makes no sense to me, and we're very relaxed where I work with the masks and family visits happening again.


I'm not sure that the Pfizer or Moderna were "rushed" but I certainly understand why people would feel that way.  Both were designed by supercomputers that tested all sorts of combinations.  The J&J is an older style vaccine, certainly proven to be safe and simply slower to make.  But in all 3 cases, they still went through similar trial periods with significant trial sizes.  

As for being all bullshit from the beginning, I think there has been a huge degree of political hype and a huge degree of political opportunism, but it is still a very real disease.  Clearly there have been a huge number of* "false positives"* which is something that i think is apparent today but was not so obvious earlier on because they really were learning how to test for Covid.  But when you look at the rapid drop in cases, some of that is herd immunity but most of the drop can be related to the change in cycle counts at the labs when they do the testing.  

That said, if you carefully look at the data, the drop has STOPPED and we've now leveled off, I suspect that we've seen testing error removed, and now we are seeing the effects of the new variants _(South African/UK/California & Brazil) _that are more contagious.  

My hope is that now that the testing cycle counts have been standardized we will see more accurate diagnosis of Covid and we can cut the hype.


----------



## pirate_girl

...'cause we've all been living in masks.


----------



## mla2ofus

That's true PG, but my question is: with the financial incentives hospitals get for covid cases, how many flu cases have been labeled as covid??


----------



## Melensdad

mla2ofus said:


> That's true PG, but my question is: with the financial incentives hospitals get for covid cases, *how many flu cases have been labeled as covid??*


Probably very few.

To be misclassified they would still have to have a positive test for Covid.  So you'd need a "false positive" and then have to treat the patient with the Covid protocols, which my brother _(hospital back office worker)_ tells me is a huge pain in the ass for hospitals.



--------------------------------


INDIANA made 2 announcements about Covid.

1 - 55 years old is the new vaccination age for Hoosiers
2 - Indiana now forbids ILLINOIS residents from getting the vaccine in Indiana.  The federal government is allocating vaccines to the states by population and apparently we've had a lot of Illinois residents cross the state line to get the vaccine in Indiana.  


ALSO in Indiana, both our HOUSE and our SENATE have passed bills, which will be moving to the Governor.  The proposed law will LIMIT THE GOVERNOR from extending an "emergency executive order" beyond 60 days unless the House & Senate vote to certify the order.

Particularly in our rural areas, people are sick and tired of the mask orders


----------



## pirate_girl

I was just looking at an old thread on Doc's cooking forum in the chit chat section.
From 2009, we had a discussion on the swine flu.
It was almost like what we are discussing now, minus media panic and all the other hype that certainly did not happen back then.
I remember being concerned, but it was nothing at all like the past year.





__





						Swine Flu Update
					

World Health Organization says pandemic eminent.  http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gzz357patY4-QaJFvo9O95zMM_EQD97SIQB00




					netcookingtalk.com


----------



## Melensdad

Just throwing out a few things here.  The first is for the Catholics among us (like myself).

FULL STORY at the link =>  https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/nation-world/national/article249627163.html

​​‘Morally compromised.’ Why one archdiocese urges Catholics to avoid newest COVID vaccine​
By Tanasia Kenney​March 02, 2021 12:29 PM​​The Archdiocese of New Orleans has advised Catholics against receiving the new Johnson & Johnson coronavirus vaccine, calling the one-dose shot “morally compromised.”​​In a statement Friday, the religious organization said the new vaccine should be avoided due to its link to an “abortion-derived cell line” used in the vaccine’s development and production phases.​​But the available vaccines from Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna are “morally acceptable,” the archdiocese wrote, because only some lab testing utilized stem cells from aborted fetuses, making their connection to abortion “extremely remote.” . . .​
--------------------------------------------


So we've had a decline, which has been rapid and universal.  Why?  Best guess is the testing data change as per the WHO.  Translation, as previously pointed out, we've had a lot of "false positive" cases.  *But that is not the news. * The news is that the graphs, and this is also pretty universal, is that they have STOPPED declining.  So are we now seeing actual data on this disease?  And are we seeing the bottom with a possible UPWARD trend from the variants (UK, SA, Brazil and California)? 

Perhaps only time will tell us.   My personal guess is this is almost over.  Not gone but probably close enough that we can return to normal soon.  The combination of the vaccine roll out and more accurate data, we can look at this as a soon to end event.


----------



## pirate_girl

Wow!









						Texas and Mississippi to lift mask mandates and roll back Covid restrictions
					

Gov. Greg Abbott said Texas would be back open "100 percent" by March 10, and Mississippi Gov. Tate Reeves said his state's mask mandate would end Wednesday.




					www.nbcnews.com
				




Texas Gov. Greg Abbott will lift the state's mask mandate and announced businesses would be allowed to reopen at full capacity in one week's time.

"It is now time to open Texas 100 percent," Abbott said Tuesday afternoon at Montelongo's Mexican Restaurant in Lubbock.


----------



## Ceee

Melensdad said:


> In a statement Friday, the religious organization said the new vaccine should be avoided due to its link to an “abortion-derived cell line” used in the vaccine’s development and production phases.But the available vaccines from Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna are “morally acceptable,” the archdiocese wrote, because only some lab testing utilized stem cells from aborted fetuses, making their connection to abortion “extremely remote.” . . .


Now I'm understanding more about what I heard last Friday on the regular live question/answer session that I faithfully watch with some doctors from Dallas. They've started including an OB/GYN in the q&a also.  Somebody called in asked about fetal tissue used in the vaccines.  The OB/GYN seemed a little shocked and said that none were involved in making either of the available vaccines.  That was the first that I'd heard that issue raised before, but now I guess I get it.

I'm not Catholic, so I don't keep up with all that.


----------



## Ceee

pirate_girl said:


> Wow!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Texas and Mississippi to lift mask mandates and roll back Covid restrictions
> 
> 
> Gov. Greg Abbott said Texas would be back open "100 percent" by March 10, and Mississippi Gov. Tate Reeves said his state's mask mandate would end Wednesday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nbcnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Texas Gov. Greg Abbott will lift the state's mask mandate and announced businesses would be allowed to reopen at full capacity in one week's time.
> 
> "It is now time to open Texas 100 percent," Abbott said Tuesday afternoon at Montelongo's Mexican Restaurant in Lubbock.


Just my opinion and I'm sure a lot of people will disagree, I think he's jumping out there too soon.  He has been under tremendous pressure for the power grid problems, so maybe that's just his way to soothe some of the anger that is plaguing Texas right now.  I just don't think that's the right thing to do right now.


----------



## pirate_girl

Ceee said:


> Just my opinion and I'm sure a lot of people will disagree, I think he's jumping out there too soon.  He has been under tremendous pressure for the power grid problems, so maybe that's just his way to soothe some of the anger that is plaguing Texas right now.  I just don't think that's the right thing to do right now.


I think many people are going to feel apprehensive once states begin opening up.
We've become so accustomed to wearing masks, even though we despise them (I sure do!)
However, there is that protection that masks have shown that works.
I hate to keep going on about how the cases of upper respiratory infections, colds, seasonal flu have been minimal nationwide.
So I expect quite a few people are going to continue mask wearing if it makes them feel safe in that regard.
?


----------



## Melensdad

Ceee said:


> Just my opinion and I'm sure a lot of people will disagree, I think he's jumping out there too soon.  He has been under tremendous pressure for the power grid problems, so maybe that's just his way to soothe some of the anger that is plaguing Texas right now.  I just don't think that's the right thing to do right now.


FWIW there are states that NEVER had a mask mandate.

Others that had short term mask mandates. 

Link to one of many stories -> 
	

			Texas to join 15 US states without statewide mask mandates
		


​Texas to join 15 US states without statewide mask mandates​On Tuesday, Texas Gov. Greg Abbott announced that effective March 10, he would be issuing a new executive order that will undo statewide coronavirus restrictions such as business capacity limitations and face mask mandates.​​Texas is joining 15 states that don't have a mask mandate​Texas is not the first state to lift its statewide mandates on masking. As of March 1, according to the AARP, the following states also do not have face mask orders in place:​​
Alaska
Arizona
Florida
Georgia
Idaho
Iowa
Mississippi
Missouri
Montana
Nebraska
North Dakota
Oklahoma
South Carolina
South Dakota
Tennessee


----------



## Melensdad

I guess I feel pretty lucky to live in a relatively "free state" and while we have a mask mandate and some limits, my state is fairly "open" in terms of business.  Restaurants do have some limits but most have had dine in service for quite a while.  Other stores seem reasonably unaffected, health clubs have been open, etc.  

Here is a pretty enlightening article.  I'm only quoting PART of the article so please go to the link to see all the information:  








						Florida and New York COVID Data Prove Lockdowns Made No Sense
					

Today is the first day of March, which means we now essentially have a full year of COVID data from the four largest states in the country: California,




					www.outkick.com
				




Florida and New York COVID Data Prove Lockdowns Made No Sense​by Clay Travis a day agoupdated about 15 hours ago 42​Today is the first day of March, which means we now essentially have a full year of COVID data from the four largest states in the country: California, Texas, Florida and New York. Thanks to the fact that we have federalism in this country, we can look at the factual COVID data and begin to answer a big question: did COVID lockdowns make any sense at all? And also, how do we assess the overall performance of governors in this country?​​Regardless of your politics, the best state leadership would have done two things during COVID: limit deaths and keep people employed. That is, the best a state could do would be to have a low COVID death rate and a low unemployment rate. (Keeping schools open generally corresponds with a low unemployment rate since a low unemployment rate means lockdowns were less stringent.)​​Given that all states have different geographic and economic conditions, it can be hard to compare every state’s COVID response head-to-head. But you can, in general, compare the four biggest states in the country and their responses to COVID, which is why California, Florida, Texas, and New York offer intriguing test case scenarios to asses which governors and which states handled COVID the best.​​And there is now a year’s worth of data to make that decision predicated on data as opposed to opinion. That is, rather than get lost in the daily noise of social media opinion, we can just look at the raw COVID data from the past year to determine how our four biggest states handled the pandemic.​​And the results just may stun you.​​For much of the past year, the media told you that New York governor Andrew Cuomo was the political hero of the COVID outbreak and that Florida governor Ron DeSantis was the political villain. This narrative began back in March of last year and has proven to be incredibly durable, carrying all the way into 2021.​​Except the data tells us the exact opposite is true: *no big state governor in the country has done a better job than Florida’s Ron DeSantis and no big state governor has done a worse job than New York’s Andrew Cuomo.*​​Yet tens of millions of people in this country believe the exact opposite.​​How did this happen?​​Well, dive in as we explore the data. But first, let me reiterate. This is is not an opinion. This is what objective and factual data tells us. The mainstream media has largely peddled falsehoods to their audience about how New York and Florida’s governors responded to COVID, praising New York and denigrating Florida.​​Leaving aside the double sexual harassment allegations that have emerged in the past week, New York’s Andrew Cuomo received nearly universal media praise for his interviews on CNN with his brother Chris, wrote a triumphant book on how to handle COVID, Dr. Anthony Fauci told us that Cuomo managed the pandemic better than anyone, and New York’s governor even received a special Emmy award for his use of television to communicate with the general public.​​An Emmy!​​Unfortunately, the facts prove that Cuomo’s COVID heroism was all a lie.​​All of it.​​At the same time they were praising Cuomo, *the media told you Florida governor Ron DeSantis was handling COVID worse than anyone in the country.* This narrative started back in March of last year and still exists. When the Super Bowl was played last month in Tampa, the media covering the game were aghast at the lack of masks there and the upcoming super spreader events that would follow. (Spoiler alert: COVID cases continued to decline massively in the Tampa area in the two weeks after the Super Bowl.) As DeSantis fought to keep the Florida theme parks open, allowed hotels and short term rentals for vacation travel, and permitted bars and restaurants to remain open as well, the media gnashed its teeth and wailed that he was trying to kill everyone.​​Sadly, these inaccurate media narratives about Florida and New York become repeated by the gullible, such as NFL reporter Peter King. King came on my radio show and praised Andrew Cuomo’s COVID performance while denigrating Ron DeSantis’ performance. While King got played by the media and wasn’t smart enough to realize it, he wasn’t alone. Tens of millions of people in America still believe, even to this day and even with transparent and factual data proving otherwise, that New York has done an incredible job with COVID and that Florida has done a disastrous one.​​Put simply,* the media sold you a false bill of goods and, sadly, many people still believe those lies.* That’s even in the wake of Cuomo potentially facing criminal charges for allegedly covering up the death rate in New York nursing homes after Cuomo made the disastrous decision to send COVID-infected patients back into nursing homes.​​The objective and factual data tells us a far different truth. Far from Andrew Cuomo being a stellar leader as it pertains to the COVID pandemic, Cuomo handled COVID worse than any elected official in a major state in this country. Indeed, if it were a country, New York would have been the worst performing country in the world at handling COVID. (New Jersey would have been a tad bit worse, but most of New Jersey’s issues came from New York City.)​​In fact, even yesterday, nearly a year after the initial outbreak, the state of New York still had the most COVID cases in the United States. You read that right. One full year after the outbreak in New York began, the state of New York is still the worst in the entire United States when it comes to dealing with COVID.​​And that just continues the trend that has been in existence for the past year.​​Here’s the death data in the four largest states in the country over the past year. Deaths per million of population:​​*New York 2,459
Texas 1,520
Florida 1,437
California 1,321*​​So New York has been substantially worse than the other three largest states in the country.​​*But New York hasn’t just done a bad job relative to other states in the country. Here’s how the state of New York’s COVID death rate per capita would rank in the entire world:*​​*New York 2,459
Czechia 1,909
Belgium 1,899
Slovenia 1,899
England 1,805
Italy 1,622
Portugal 1,607
United States 1,582*​​Let me repeat this: New York, if it were a country, would have the worst COVID death rate in the entire world. The objective data is clear. Far from being a COVID hero, Governor Andrew Cuomo is probably the worst performing elected official in the entire world when it comes to dealing with COVID.​​But that’s not all, not only has New York been the worst performing location for COVID in the entire world, they’ve also managed to destroy their economy in the process by adopting draconian lockdowns which have been almost totally ineffective at saving lives.​​Look at the most recent unemployment rates in each of the four biggest states in the country:​​*Florida 6.1%
Texas 7.2%
New York 8.2%
California 9.0%*​​So not only has New York posted the worst death rate from COVID in the world, they have also tanked their economy in the process, posting the fourth highest unemployment rate in the United States. (They are 46th overall. California is even worse as the 49th worst unemployment rate in the nation.)​​The data from the four largest states make it clear: lockdowns haven’t worked in this country.​​At all.​​They haven’t limited deaths, and they’ve tanked the economy.​​*This isn’t an opinion. This is what the factual data tells us*. . . .​


----------



## Melensdad

The USA is racing as quickly as possible to get vaccines into peoples arms, and if Biden pushes the Defense Act, as Trump did early on, we could see our vaccine supplies here grow at an even greater speed.  We already see him claiming that the US will be able to vaccinate every adult by the end of MAY 2020

BUT is that going to be fast enough and good enough to beat the BRAZIL variant?  We know the UK variant's strain is SOMEWHAT resistant to the vaccines.  We know the vaccines REDUCE severity and pretty much eliminate hospitalizations + deaths.  We know that people who get the vaccines can still get the UK strain of Covid but we also see that its cases are fairly mild.  We don't see much reporting on the BRAZIL variant. 

Until we get a bit more research we really won't know the actual threat of the BRAZIL variation, if there is one.  It does not seem to have gotten a strong foothold here in the US at this point.  The UK variant, however, has a few strong regions and will likely become the dominant strain in California and a few other areas in the US.

From the Wall Street Journal:









						Covid-19 Variant in Brazil Overwhelms Local Hospitals, Hits Younger Patients
					

Researchers and doctors are sounding the alarm over the new coronavirus strain known as P.1, which a report released on Tuesday said is 1.4 to 2.2 times more contagious than variants seen previously in Brazil.




					www.wsj.com
				




Researchers and doctors are sounding the alarm over a new, more aggressive coronavirus strain from the Amazon area of Brazil, which they believe is responsible for a recent rise in deaths, as well as infections in younger people, in parts of South America.​​Brazil’s daily death toll from the disease rose to its highest level yet this week, pushing the country’s total number of Covid-19 fatalities past a quarter of a million. On Tuesday, Brazil reported a record 1,641 Covid fatalities. Neighbor Peru is struggling to curb a second wave of infections.​​The new variant, known as P.1, is 1.4 to 2.2 times more contagious than versions of the virus previously found in Brazil, and 25% to 61% more capable of reinfecting people who had been infected by an earlier strain, according to a study released Tuesday. ​​With mass vaccination a long way off across the region, countries such as Brazil risk becoming a breeding ground for potent versions of the virus that could render current Covid-19 vaccines less effective, public-health specialists warned.​​A more prolonged pandemic could also devastate the economies of countries such as Brazil, slowing growth and expanding the country’s already large debt pile as the government extends payouts to the poor, economists said.​


----------



## Melensdad

And the AP is reporting that the UK variant, a version that I don't think the US needs to be too concerned about if we continue to get vaccines administered, seems to be infecting children.  The Wuhan version of Covid did not and does not seem to be an issue in kids, if they get it they don't really spread it, and they tend to suffer very mild cases.  So it is more of a worry that the UK version could spread in the school systems.  But if the vaccines get us to herd immunity first it may become a non issue.  Just something to be aware of, perhaps nothing to be particularly worried about.









						Virus variant races through Italy, especially among children
					

ROME (AP) — The variant of the coronavirus discovered in Britain is prevalent among Italy's infected schoolchildren and is helping to fuel a “robust” uptick in the curve of COVID-19 contagion in the country, the health minister said Tuesday...




					apnews.com
				




ROME (AP) — The variant of the coronavirus discovered in Britain is prevalent among Italy’s infected schoolchildren and is helping to fuel a “robust” uptick in the curve of COVID-19 contagion in the country, the health minister said Tuesday.​​Roberto Speranza told reporters that the variant, associated with higher transmission rates, has shown pervasiveness “among the youngest age group” of the population. ​​In recent weeks, Italy’s incidence of new cases among young people has now eclipsed incidence among the older population, a reversal of how COVID-19 afflicted residents in the first months of the pandemic. ​​Italy, a nation of 60 million people where COVID-19 first erupted in the West in February 2020, has registered nearly 3 million confirmed cases.​​Speranza announced stricter directives, contained in the first anti-pandemic decree of new Italian Premier Mario Draghi, aimed at trying to “govern this curve of contagion,” especially among school-age children. ​​There are “rather robust signs of an uptick in the curve of contagion and terrible variants,” particularly the one discovered in Britain, the minister said.​​The president of the government Superior Institute of Health, Silvio Brusaferro, said that as of analyses of cases on Feb. 18, 54% of confirmed COVID-19 cases in Italy involved that variant. But, said Brusaferro, “if measured today surely the percentage would be higher.” ​​Another variant, found in Brazil, is now involved in 4.3% of recent COVID-19 cases in Italy, Brusaferro said, particularly in central Italy, including the area of Rome’s region. ​​In recent days, authorities have taken to sealing off many towns and cities in areas where transmission rates are rapidly increasing. The mayor of Bologna, which has 400,000 residents, announced that, starting on Thursday and until March 21, the city will be under strict “red zone” lockdown rules, which means all restaurants and cafes are closed to dining, as are nonessential shops. ​​Another critical place is Como, the lakeside city near Switzerland. Many of Como’s citizens commute across the border.​​The variant found in South Africa is involved in 0.4% of COVID-19 infections in Italy and mainly confined to the Italian Alpine area near the border with Austria, Brusaferro said.​​Draghi’s decree, which takes effect on Saturday and lasts until April 6, to just after Easter, tightened measures governing schools. It mandates that all schools, including for nursery and elementary students, in “red zone” regions must be shuttered. Some exceptions will be made for students with special needs. ​​But the decree loosens restrictions in the world of culture. Starting on March 27, cinemas and theaters can reopen in “yellow zone” regions with low incidence and virus transmission rates, but these venues must limit capacity to 25%. Museums in yellow zones, already permitted to admit the public on weekdays, can open also on weekends starting March 27. ​​Gyms and pools stay shut. Also remaining is a 10 p.m. to 5 a.m. nationwide curfew, and a ban on travel between Italy’s regions. ​​Italy’s known death toll of more than 98,000 is the second-highest in Europe, after Britain’s.​


----------



## Ceee

Just heard on the news this morning that 5 variants have been identified in the Houston, Tx area.

Edit to add:  A large number of immigrants coming in from Mexico are testing positive for covid too.


----------



## Melensdad

There are probably 100+ variants of Covid.  There are a few which seem to be more contagious, those are the ones that we need watch.  The vaccines are essentially racing to beat the faster spread of those variants.


----------



## Ceee

Cities Starting To Detect Multiple Covid Variants
					

Houston hit an undesirable jackpot by being the first city in the U.S. to report infections from all the major known coronavirus variants.




					khn.org
				




Houston hit an undesirable jackpot by being the first city in the U.S. to report infections from all the major known coronavirus variants.

Houston Chronicle: Houston Is First City To Record All Major COVID Strains, New Study Finds*Houston is the nation’s first city to record every major variant of the novel coronavirus *— many of which are more contagious than the original strain. “The numbers of the major variants we have identified in our large sequencing study are disquieting,” said Dr. James Musser, who leads the team of experts at Houston Methodist Hospital behind the new finding. “The genome data indicate that these important variants are now geographically widely distributed in the Houston metropolitan region.” (Downen and Garcia, 3/1)
.........
Maybe the above is bad info, I don't know.
Being so close to the border, I think Texas is facing some unique situations that some of the other states that have fully opened up don't have to deal with.  I've always mostly agreed with what Abbott has done, but I'm just going to have to disagree with him this time.


----------



## Melensdad

Oddly the article doesn't show WHICH variants are there.

It also only refers to the MAJOR variants, which I see/hear/read as 4.  There are many many more variants reported in medical journals.

I'm guessing it is mostly a headline to create more panic?  

Overall the infection rate in Texas is lower than other major population states.


----------



## Melensdad

This is still one of the many unknowns.

The article gets into a lot of medical terms, etc  Basically I quoted the intro the article but feel free to go to link if you want all the science.

Full article is at the link -->>  https://abcnews.go.com/Health/scien...ysterious-brain-fog-symptom/story?id=76184080

Scientists inch closer to explaining the mysterious 'brain fog' symptom of COVID-19​*Brain fog can lead to confusion, memory loss and difficulty thinking.*


As larger numbers of people recover from COVID-19, researchers are learning more about "brain fog" in those affected by the virus.

For months, doctors and researchers have been aware of a range of longer-term symptoms afflicting people after recovering from an active COVID-19 infection. One such symptom, generally referred to as "brain fog," can take the shape of confusion, difficulty thinking and concentrating, short-term memory loss, and in severe cases, has even been reported to cause delirium and psychosis.

While scientists still don't know for sure what causes brain fog, they're zeroing in on a few theories. Mainly, scientists increasingly believe brain fog happens when cells that are involved in response to an infection make their way to atypical places, such as the brain.

A key finding emerged when researchers autopsied brains of COVID victims, discovering certain cells that shouldn't have been there. These large cells, known as megakaryocytes, might be taking up precious space, leaving less room for blood to pass to the brain.

This phenomenon might be unique to COVID, according to David Nauen, MD, PH.D, a professor of pathology at the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine.


----------



## Melensdad

AND SOME GOOD NEWS . . . 

*UK to reach "vaccination **threshold" in March
USA to reach "vaccination threshold" in April*
*European Union to reach "vaccination threshold" in JUNE *

So says NORGES BANK in their analysis of the vaccinations and the disease progression based on data from Israel.  Israel is the world's most vaccinated nation, with a super majority of their residents vaccinated and their disease incidence progressively dropping.  

The UK will win the race to getting 1st dose vaccinations into people's arm.  They are giving 1st doses ... THEN DELAYING FOR MONTHS the 2nd dose.  The strategy gives a high degree of immunity but not as high as the US approach which is to give 2 doses within 21 to 30 days of each other.  The US strategy is slower to get immunity but gives greater protection to those who have it, which may* (or may not)* be needed with the spread of the newer variants.

The USA will follow closely behind because we have a better vaccination program, we have a greater supply of vaccines, and we distribute it more efficiently than the UK.  So we will follow closely on the heels of the UK.

The EU is basically screwed up, they don't have doses, they don't have systems in place, etc.  But while the EU is a mess, the rest of the world is in far worse shape.  

-----------------------------------------------

The State of INDIANA lowered its age threshold and is *now vaccinating people aged 50 and above.*

Pretty happy with Indiana's take on the whole pandemic.

We didn't close for as long as most other states, we reopened quicker and wider.  I did question some of that and admit my skepticism was wrong.  The economic damage to Indiana is not as bad as some other places although we are dependent upon other states as we have 3 major cities JUST ACROSS our border so what other states do does affect our economy.  Our vaccine rollout is going well.  People here are unhappy with the mask mandate but you don't see me as one who complains about that.


----------



## Melensdad

While it has been heavily touted as a cheap cure, it appears that IVERMECTIN may not be the magic bullet to cure Covid.  This is not good news. The world really needs a cheap, readily available TREATMENT for those who are infected with Covid.  I'm not going to copy the story, basically they had 500 patients, in a randomized double blind study, at a medical center in Columbia.  People with mild to moderate symptoms who used Ivermectin seem to see reduced symptoms after 10 days of treatment but had side effects.  People treated with a placebo seemed to see reduced symptoms after 12 days of non-treatment.









						Ivermectin Disappoints in Mild COVID-19
					

Colombian trial flop




					www.medpagetoday.com


----------



## pirate_girl

Peeps were saying Ohio would be following Texas etc.. with ending the mask mandate and opening up.
Not so. DeWine is waiting for "so many per to test negative per" before that can happen.
Then there are still many who need to get their vaccines.
Nursing home cases have dropped by 80+%.
I have a hard time believing many of our counties are still in the red.
?


----------



## EastTexFrank

pirate_girl said:


> I have a hard time believing many of our counties are still in the red.
> ?



Me too PG.  What I have noticed in our numbers is that we have now run almost as many positive Antigen tests as swab tests.  I think that the Antigen test is finding people who may have had Covid at some time, maybe months ago, with little or no symptoms and are now fully recovered but it is still classified as a "positive" test and counted in the total number of cases.  It kind of skews the daily numbers as those people are not infectious or sick.  I have no way of knowing if that is actually true.  It's just a hunch.


----------



## Melensdad

We were able to set an appointment for Melen to get her Covid shot.  3 weeks from yesterday she has her appointment.  It is not a waiting list appointment, its just a regular appointment to get the shots.  Indiana has opened up more and more vaccines and its becoming much easier to qualify for a shot.


----------



## Melensdad

I figure we should start seeing stories popping up on social media soon.  Can’t blame Russia for pursuing profits on the sale of their vaccine but they should play fair... not that I expect that either.   









						WSJ News Exclusive | Russian Disinformation Campaign Aims to Undermine Confidence in Pfizer, Other Covid-19 Vaccines, U.S. Officials Say
					

Russian intelligence agencies are trying to undermine confidence in Pfizer’s and other Western coronavirus vaccines, using online publications that have questioned the vaccines’ development and safety, U.S. officials said.




					www.wsj.com


----------



## Ceee

WHO says no link between AstraZeneca vaccine and blood clots
					

The World Health Organization (WHO) on Friday said there was no risk from taking AstraZeneca’s COVID-19 vaccine as some countries have paused distribution over blood clot concerns.Despite no …




					thehill.com
				




"The World Health Organization (WHO) on Friday said there was no risk from taking AstraZeneca's COVID-19 vaccine as some countries have paused distribution over blood clot concerns.

Despite no clear evidence of a link, countries including Iceland, Denmark and Norway have halted their use of AstraZeneca's vaccine following reports that it could be connected to blood clots."



			https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/03/12/coronavirus-covid-live-updates-us/
		


"The World Health Organization said Friday that there is no reason to stop using the Oxford-AstraZeneca coronavirus vaccine, as a growing number of countries in Europe and elsewhere have moved to halt its use over blood clot concerns."


First I heard about this.


----------



## mla2ofus

The WHO has such a credibility problem I don't see why anyone should listen to them.


----------



## Melensdad

Ceee said:


> WHO says no link between AstraZeneca vaccine and blood clots
> 
> 
> The World Health Organization (WHO) on Friday said there was no risk from taking AstraZeneca’s COVID-19 vaccine as some countries have paused distribution over blood clot concerns.Despite no …
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thehill.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "The World Health Organization (WHO) on Friday said there was no risk from taking AstraZeneca's COVID-19 vaccine as some countries have paused distribution over blood clot concerns.
> 
> Despite no clear evidence of a link, countries including Iceland, Denmark and Norway have halted their use of AstraZeneca's vaccine following reports that it could be connected to blood clots."
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/03/12/coronavirus-covid-live-updates-us/
> 
> 
> 
> "The World Health Organization said Friday that there is no reason to stop using the Oxford-AstraZeneca coronavirus vaccine, as a growing number of countries in Europe and elsewhere have moved to halt its use over blood clot concerns."
> 
> 
> First I heard about this.


We don't have the Oxford/AstraZenica vaccine approved in North America so it doesn't make the news.

But I've been following this story, I am not convinced these are not simple coincidences.  Blood clots occur for lots of different reasons.  It appears that the cases of blood clots appearing in people who have taken the OX/AZ vaccine occurs at exactly the same rate that it occurs in the population at large.  


-----------------------------------------------------------------------



Looks like Europe is pretty much screwed.  The UK broke away from the EU and one of the benefits of doing that is that breaking away allowed the UK to approve vaccines and administer them.  The EU nations, even advanced nations like France and Germany, are mired in red tape and a slow vaccine approval process.  That set everything behind, including ordering vaccines, so now the US is taking delivery of drugs it ordered LAST YEAR while the EU nations are will wait MONTHS to get more.

All while the new variants are increasing cases on the continent.









						Europe Confronts a Covid-19 Rebound as Vaccine Hopes Recede
					

Contagion is rising again in the EU despite months of restrictions on daily life as more-virulent virus strains outpace vaccinations, with a mood of gloom and frustration settling on the continent.




					www.wsj.com
				




Europe Confronts a Covid-19 Rebound as Vaccine Hopes Recede​Slow vaccinations, outpaced by virus variants, and indecision by EU governments are deepening the continent’s gloom​By in Rome, in Berlin and in Paris​Updated March 12, 2021 11:08 am ET
​The European Union’s fight against Covid-19 is stuck in midwinter, even as spring and vaccinations spur hope of improvement in the U.S. and U.K.​​*Contagion is rising again in much of the EU*, despite months of restrictions on daily life, as more-virulent virus strains outpace vaccinations. A mood of *gloom and frustration is settling on the continent*, and governments are caught between their promises of progress and the bleak epidemiological reality.​​Virus infections and deaths have been falling rapidly in the U.S. and U.K. since January as inoculations take off among the elderly and other vulnerable groups. *In the EU, however, new Covid-19 cases have been rising again since mid-February. *U.S. infections and deaths, which were higher on a per-capita basis for most of 2020, have fallen below the bloc’s.​​In much of the continent,* the spread of the more-aggressive variant first detected in the U.K. is behind the worsening of the pandemic, undoing strenuous efforts to rein in the virus *since the fall with an array of restrictions that have brought the bloc’s economic recovery to a standstill.​​Governments and public-health experts say only a combination of accelerated vaccinations and gradual reopening can defeat Covid-19’s latest rebound.* But the EU’s efforts continue to suffer from its slowness in procuring and approving vaccines, production delays at vaccine makers, and bureaucratic holdups in injecting available doses.*​​So far, there is nothing like the acute hospital crisis that overwhelmed healthcare systems in parts of Italy and Spain a year ago. Instead, the bloc’s public-health crisis has become chronic, with authorities struggling constantly to tamp down the flames. . . story continues at link above.​​


----------



## Melensdad

And Europe, which is totally screwing up its vaccinations, is now going into another round of LOCKDOWNS

I'm only providing the headlines and the first few paragraphs but you can follow the links for the full stories.  Generally the European Union screwed the pooch and now their socialist leaders and locking the citizens in their homes.




			Two-Thirds of Italians Set For Lockdown as Pandemic Worsens
		

Two-Thirds of Italians Set For Lockdown as Pandemic Worsens​(Bloomberg) -- The government of Prime Minister Mario Draghi is weighing stringent new restrictions on as many as two-thirds of Italians, with the regions encompassing the country’s largest cities possibly heading into lockdown amid a resurgence in the pandemic.

The tightening would bring Italy full-circle just over a year after it became the first Western country to enter lockdown to stop the spread of the coronavirus. Infections rose to a three-month high this week after the more contagious U.K. strain took hold amid a slow vaccine roll-out.

Draghi’s cabinet was due to meet at 11:30 a.m. on Friday to decide whether to automatically designate regions as high-risk “red zones” if they have more than 250 weekly cases per 100,000 inhabitants, according to a draft of a new decree seen by Bloomberg. The draft is subject to change.

The new decree would go into effect starting Monday and could effectively send many regions, including those surrounding Milan and Rome, into full lockdown. The restrictions would remain in force until April 6. During the Easter holidays, from April 3-5, all of Italy would be a “red zone,” except for the few areas at the least risk of contagion, according to the draft.











						Germany declares a Covid 'third wave' has begun; Italy set for Easter lockdown
					

Italy is reportedly set to impose another near national lockdown over the Easter weekend in an effort to curb the spread of the virus.




					www.cnbc.com
				



*Germany declares a Covid ‘third wave’ has begun; Italy set for Easter lockdown*​Sam Meredith


LONDON — The head of Germany’s public health agency on Friday warned that a third wave of coronavirus infections has already begun.
It comes at a time when the country has started to gradually relax lockdown restrictions, amid a government-led effort to speed up its vaccination rollout to as many adults as possible.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel had previously warned the country could be caught in a third wave of infections if restrictive public health measures were lifted too quickly.


----------



## m1west

Gee didn't see the mutation issue coming, its only been doing that with the flu for as long as there was a flu. Its only going to be at best 70% effective like the rest of the corona virus vaccines year over. Its here to stay just like the rest. The sooner the experts adopt that philosophy the sooner things will get back to normal. Its not going to be beaten and before its over everyone is going to get some strain of it. More people with conditions are going to die, but those same folks may die with the common flu or pneumonia with the conditions they have. The world can not survive a third, forth or fifth lockdown. Sounds harsh but that reality.


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> Gee didn't see the mutation issue coming, its only been doing that with the flu for as long as there was a flu. Its only going to be at best 70% effective like the rest of the corona virus vaccines year over. Its here to stay just like the rest. The sooner the experts adopt that philosophy the sooner things will get back to normal. Its not going to be beaten and before its over everyone is going to get some strain of it. More people with conditions are going to die, but those same folks may die with the common flu or pneumonia with the conditions they have. The world can not survive a third, forth or fifth lockdown. Sounds harsh but that reality.


The key with ANY vaccine is to get it into peoples arm before the disease mutates.  In the case of things like Chicken Pox and other things kids get vaccinated for, the vaccine was targeted to the disease's mutation at the time the vaccine was developed.  

The seasonal FLU is actually different.  There are multiple strains of it that are passed around the globe.  The scientists look at what is dominant in SOUTH AMERICA in the spring and produce vaccines for NORTH AMERICA for distribution in the late summer/fall of that year.  

------------------------------------------------------


Here in the US we are all pretty darn lucky that Trump did what he did.  Like him or not, his Operation Warp Speed got us vaccines in short order.  His early travel bans, which the Democrats all criticized, probably helped slow down the introduction in the US, sadly it was not more widely enforced and done more quickly.  Other parts of the world have really screwed up.  England/UK did well.  Russia has actually done reasonably well.  But reports of the next wave ravaging people keep coming as the mutations surge.  



			'Covid is taking over': Brazil plunges into deadliest chapter of its epidemic
		


*'Covid is taking over': Brazil plunges into deadliest chapter of its epidemic*​It was midway through February when André Machado realized Brazil’s coronavirus catastrophe was racing into a bewildering and remorseless new phase. “The floodgates opened and the water came gushing out,” recalled the infectious disease specialist from the Our Lady of the Conception hospital in Porto Alegre, one of the largest cities in southern Brazil.​​Related: Experts warn Brazil facing darkest days of Covid crisis as deaths hit highest level​​Since then, Machado’s hospital, like health centres up and down the country, has been engulfed by a deluge of jittery, gasping patients – many of them previously healthy and bafflingly young. Among the recent admissions was a heavily pregnant 37-year-old who was brought in complaining of breathing difficulties and a cough. Doctors performed an emergency C-section to deliver the baby in a desperate bid to take the pressure off the expectant mother’s Covid-racked lungs.​​“We’re trying to help people but this disease is much faster and more aggressive than the tactics we’ve been using,” Machado, 44, said of his team’s efforts to keep pace with a tripling of admissions.​​“It’s like we’re flogging a dead horse,” he said, before adding: “This disease is going to kill many more people in Brazil.”​


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> The key with ANY vaccine is to get it into peoples arm before the disease mutates.  In the case of things like Chicken Pox and other things kids get vaccinated for, the vaccine was targeted to the disease's mutation at the time the vaccine was developed.
> 
> The seasonal FLU is actually different.  There are multiple strains of it that are passed around the globe.  The scientists look at what is dominant in SOUTH AMERICA in the spring and produce vaccines for NORTH AMERICA for distribution in the late summer/fall of that year.
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> Here in the US we are all pretty darn lucky that Trump did what he did.  Like him or not, his Operation Warp Speed got us vaccines in short order.  His early travel bans, which the Democrats all criticized, probably helped slow down the introduction in the US, sadly it was not more widely enforced and done more quickly.  Other parts of the world have really screwed up.  England/UK did well.  Russia has actually done reasonably well.  But reports of the next wave ravaging people keep coming as the mutations surge.
> 
> 
> 
> 'Covid is taking over': Brazil plunges into deadliest chapter of its epidemic
> 
> 
> 
> ​*'Covid is taking over': Brazil plunges into deadliest chapter of its epidemic*​It was midway through February when André Machado realized Brazil’s coronavirus catastrophe was racing into a bewildering and remorseless new phase. “The floodgates opened and the water came gushing out,” recalled the infectious disease specialist from the Our Lady of the Conception hospital in Porto Alegre, one of the largest cities in southern Brazil.​​Related: Experts warn Brazil facing darkest days of Covid crisis as deaths hit highest level​​Since then, Machado’s hospital, like health centres up and down the country, has been engulfed by a deluge of jittery, gasping patients – many of them previously healthy and bafflingly young. Among the recent admissions was a heavily pregnant 37-year-old who was brought in complaining of breathing difficulties and a cough. Doctors performed an emergency C-section to deliver the baby in a desperate bid to take the pressure off the expectant mother’s Covid-racked lungs.​​“We’re trying to help people but this disease is much faster and more aggressive than the tactics we’ve been using,” Machado, 44, said of his team’s efforts to keep pace with a tripling of admissions.​​“It’s like we’re flogging a dead horse,” he said, before adding: “This disease is going to kill many more people in Brazil.”​


I know How all  that works, the point is, kids still get chicken pox and people still get the flu and 10 years from now folks will still get some form of COVID vaccinated or not.


----------



## mla2ofus

Regarding covid, I just wish all the politicians would just shut up and gorilla tape fauci's mouth.


----------



## Melensdad

mla2ofus said:


> Regarding covid, I just wish all the politicians would just shut up and gorilla tape fauci's mouth.


YUP

I liked him at the onset of all of this mess but as time went on I began to hate every word he spoke. Too much politician and too little science.  I get that in the beginning nobody knew.  But eventually he was proven to be a liar.  And I even understand that doctors didn't know the facts but if they say they don't know and are making an educated guess I can respect them. He just lied.  And got caught.  And kept lying.  He is more politician than doctor.  

In the end Dr Scott Atlas, who most people considered a kook, was right far more often than he was wrong and we probably should have followed his advice.  But he was discredited and Dr Fauci was a hero.


----------



## Melensdad

This is some of the scary crap about this disease.  Long Covid or Long Haulers, people who get mild cases but still are sick.  











						They Got Covid One Year Ago. They’re Still Sick.
					

Scientists are putting new effort into understanding the troubling symptoms of long Covid. These patients are waiting for answers.




					www.wsj.com
				





Scientists are putting new effort into understanding the troubling symptoms of long Covid. These patients are waiting.  A year after the first wave of Covid-19 infections swept across the country, a group of patients is marking the start of an illness that never went away.​

Suffering from what’s often referred to as “long Covid,” an estimated roughly 10% to 30% of Covid patients continue to experience symptoms months after their initial diagnosis. Many had mild to moderate Covid cases at first, and didn’t require hospitalization. But months later, they are grappling with often-debilitating symptoms that can include brain fog, fatigue, shortness of breath, racing heart beat, and an inability to tolerate physical or mental exertion.

Doctors are struggling to determine what causes the symptoms, exactly how many people are affected and why some suffer while others recover. It’s unclear why women—generally younger or in middle age, who were previously healthy—appear to be disproportionately affected, according to the demographics of post-Covid clinics and support groups. But there is growing consensus that it is a significant disease that needs to be better understood.
In February, the National Institutes of Health announced a major initiative to study long Covid, backed by $1.15 billion in funding. “Large numbers of patients who have been infected with [Covid] continue to experience a constellation of symptoms long past the time that they’ve recovered from the initial stages of Covid-19 illness,” said NIH Director Francis S. Collins in the announcement. He pointed to a survey of more than 3,700 self-described Covid long-haulers that indicated nearly half couldn’t work full-time six months after developing prolonged symptoms. The findings came from patient-led research that sprung out of a long Covid advocacy group called Body Politic.

A February study in JAMA found that roughly one-third of 177 people who’d largely had mild Covid cases reported persistent symptoms up to nine months after illness. Nearly 30% of nonhospitalized patients reported worse quality of life. Another recent study, in the journal Clinical Infectious Diseases, found that 66% of 118 patients with mild to moderate Covid had at least one symptom four months later. Nearly 40% reported a work impairment and 11% said they had to miss some work due to their symptoms. 
“What we’re seeing is not one condition, it’s a whole series of things,” says Martin McKee, a professor of European public health at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, who was the lead author of a World Health Organization paper on long Covidpublished in February. “This is a virus that affects the body in many different ways and the body reacts in many different ways.”
Some long Covid patients have seen gradual improvement with very slow and incremental rehabilitation or guided exercise programs but others say they don’t have the energy to start them. 




Some of Ms. Jensen’s symptoms have included neuropathy, arthritis and muscle pain.​Photo: Nina Robinson for Wall Street Journal
Mount Sinai in New York was one of the first hospitals to establish a dedicated center for post-Covid care. Of the 800 patients enrolled in the center’s rehabilitation program, about 150 have undergone about four months of rehab, says David Putrino, director of rehabilitation innovation at Mount Sinai.
Nearly all of those 150 are improving but none are fully recovered, he says. He believes that most long Covid patients will need a minimum of six to 12 months of rehab.
The Sinai program involves doing breathing exercises to increase lung capacity so that patients can begin to tolerate gradual exercise reconditioning. “We’ve learned not to push patients too quickly,” says Dr. Putrino. 
Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minn., has a program to treat Covid patients who are sick for up to three months and a separate program with fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome specialists for patients who are sick longer.
“We’ve had patients who have had a full recovery, including patients who had very poor function at the start of treatment,” says Greg Vanichkachorn, an occupational and aerospace medicine physician at Mayo. Others have improved but are still experiencing symptoms a year later. 
More on Long Covid​
Doctors Begin to Crack Covid’s Mysterious Long-Term Effects
These Patients Are Still Ravaged by Covid’s Fallout
Suffering From Covid for Months—and Battling Murky Test Results Too
For Covid Long-Haulers, a Little-Known Diagnosis Offers Possible Treatments—and New Challenges
Some doctors say pulmonary symptoms, such as exercise tolerance and shortness of breath, seem to improve more quickly with treatment than neurological ones. “It’s really the neurocognitive effects which seem to be lasting longer,” says Aruna Subramanian, a clinical professor of medicine at Stanford University. 
Her group is conducting neurocognitive testing, as well as functional MRI’s in some patients. “The preliminary data there does show significant decreases in attention, executive function, memory and overall cognitive dysfunction,” says Dr. Subramanian.
Theories on the symptoms’ causes focus on whether they are autoimmune in nature, inflammatory, or both. Akiko Iwasaki, professor of immunobiology at Yale, says there’s evidence that long Covid could be caused by a viral reservoir; remnants of the virus in the body causing inflammation; or an autoimmune disease. She is also looking at whether the vaccines may improve symptoms in patients.
Dr. Iwasaki and Dr. Putrino are studying the immune response of long Covid patients. One possibility, says Dr. Putrino, is that Covid causes a massive inflammatory response producing a flood of cytokines, even in mild cases, which can be damaging to the body’s tissues and organs. Hospitalized patients undergoing the so-called cytokine storm get medications to tamp down their inflammatory response but patients at home might not even realize their body is going through one. “That could be a solid explanation of why less-severe cases are more likely to lead to this post-acute Covid phenomenon,” says Dr. Putrino. .... STORY CONTINUES AT LINK


----------



## mla2ofus

There's been so much alleged expert opinions put out I'm getting skeptical about believing any of them no matter how much alphabet is behind their name.


----------



## Melensdad

mla2ofus said:


> There's been so much alleged expert opinions put out I'm getting skeptical about believing any of them no matter how much alphabet is behind their name.


I've been long time saying its not about the risk of death, rather it is about the overrunning of hospitals and the long term effects.

Our hospital system in the US was never over run.  It was stressed, but we managed very well.

But the long term effects are now the real issue that needs focus.  I personally know people who have long term issues.  It is not a joke, it is life altering shit.  Most people who get Covid get over it.  A modest % of the people who get it have some seriously long term problems.  Bad enough they can't work, bad enough they sell their businesses.


----------



## EastTexFrank

I too know people who suffered the long term effects of COVID.  Unfortunately, there seems to be relief from the symptoms.  Even though I was considered "high risk", it was the reported long haul symptoms of the disease that worried me more than actually catching the virus and why I was actually relieved after I got my second shot.


----------



## Melensdad

meanwhile . . .* 'Murica!*


----------



## pirate_girl

She is on our facilities Facebook page today.
The face of a survivor.
Playing Uno.
Can't tell you much more about her because of HIPAA.
?❤


----------



## EastTexFrank

EastTexFrank said:


> I too know people who suffered the long term effects of COVID.  Unfortunately, there seems to be *NO* relief from the symptoms.  Even though I was considered "high risk", it was the reported long haul symptoms of the disease that worried me more than actually catching the virus and why I was actually relieved after I got my second shot.


I needed to edit my last post.  The few people that I know who have long term effects from COVID aren't getting any better.  They continue to struggle months and months after their "recovery".  We just have to wait and see what the future holds.


----------



## Melensdad

EastTexFrank said:


> I needed to edit my last post.  The few people that I know who have long term effects from COVID aren't getting any better.  They continue to struggle months and months after their "recovery".  We just have to wait and see what the future holds.


This is one of the scary facts about this disease.  

Yes most people seem to recover.  But something around 10% only semi-recover.  And they seem to be in miserable condition.  

My friend, who got Covid almost a year ago, finally has recovered.  At least mostly.  I hope your friends do too.


----------



## pirate_girl

All Ohioans eligible for a COVID-19 vaccine by end of March
					

Gov. DeWine announced additional groups will become eligible for a COVID-19 vaccine this week.




					www.13abc.com


----------



## pirate_girl

Melensdad said:


> Yes most people seem to recover.  *But something around 10% only semi-recover. * And they seem to be in miserable condition.


Seems to be the case with my hunny bunny above.
We had many sent to St. V'S in Toledo, some came back on o2 ,a trach and vents.
ONE remains with us.?
We lost Richard not long ago.
He was a heavy smoker.
Right now there are perhaps less than 10 residents who are showing long term effects like the brain fog and a little weakness.
We have an awesome PT team, so we're gradually getting there.
We've opened up to more family visits lately.
The difference it has made is truly something to celebrate.


----------



## Melensdad

pirate_girl said:


> All Ohioans eligible for a COVID-19 vaccine by end of March
> 
> 
> Gov. DeWine announced additional groups will become eligible for a COVID-19 vaccine this week.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.13abc.com


Ohio is at age 40+ or serious medical issues.  Indiana is similar at age 45+.  

Meanwhile Illinois is 65+!


----------



## EastTexFrank

Texas was at 55+.  I was told that this week or perhaps next week it goes to 16+ so basically everybody can get it.


----------



## FrancSevin

It s so sad to hear what this disease has done to so many people. Outrage at our government and our friends in china is more than warranted.

I feel lucky I live in Missouri.  Common sense runs most of the State.


I am 74 and healthy.  I mean age fifty energy and health.  Yet, I get the flu every year. This even if I get a shot,  I get sick. Every year.
Last year, January/February, when COVID-19 was just coming on, I was again sick. Sicker than I have ever been. So sick, I didn't go to work.  Never happened before.

No proof but we suspect from the symptoms, it was possibly COVID.

As a former paramedic, I still keep the tools of the trade with me.  So luckily, I had O2 on hand.  It is the only reason I survived the night.

I take a lot of supplements now.  Zinc, Sera Vitol,  Aswaganda and Ageless Male.  That and the wife and I are again having relations. I cannot believe the difference in my vitality. One, or all, of these are to blame.
I am completely off my hypertension meds, and Advair for COPD.
Best of all.  For the first time in years,,,, I didn't contract the flu.  Any Flu. Not a cold or any malaise.

So give my COVID-19 shot to somebody else. They need it more than I do. I'll wear the mask but only because I want persons around me to feel safe. Besides, we still have several thousand of them in the warehouse.

Stay healthy friends, Stay loved, Stay safe.


----------



## Ceee

I was finally able to get an appt for a vaccine, doing the happy dance.  I don't even know which vaccine it will be, and at this point, I don't even care.


----------



## Melensdad

My daughter got her first shot today.

She got the Pfizer vaccine.  

She is only 26, but qualified under the serious medical condition age exemption.  

As a back up plan she also had another appointment set under the Medical Worker exemption because she is a licensed E.M.T.  She will cancel that appointment to free up the slot for someone else.


----------



## pirate_girl

Donald Trump's Mar-a-Lago Club Partially Closed Due to COVID-19 Outbreak
		


Former President Donald Trump's club, Mar-a-Lago, has been partially closed due to an outbreak of COVID-19. The golf club and resort is located in Palm Beach, Florida, and now serves as Trump's primary residence.

A member of the club's staff tested positive, according to the Associated Press (AP), which led management to introduce a partial shut down of Mar-a-Lago's operations.


----------



## Melensdad

Did anyone else notice that President Trump is asking his supporters to get the vaccine ?


----------



## pirate_girl

Melensdad said:


> Did anyone else notice that President Trump is asking his supporters to get the vaccine ?


Wasn't it last week when some former presidents (and possibly the current and co.) were complaining because Trump didnt join them in that PSA of sorts about the importance of the vaccines?


----------



## Lenny

Melensdad said:


> Did anyone else notice that President Trump is asking his supporters to get the vaccine ?


I got the second one yesterday.  Pfizer.   I'm feeling pretty shitty today.


----------



## pirate_girl

Lenny said:


> I got the second one yesterday.  Pfizer.   I'm feeling pretty shitty today.


It's doing it's job, Lenny.
Your immune system is saying wtf is this?
Not at all uncommon.


----------



## Lenny

pirate_girl said:


> It's doing it's job, Lenny.
> Your immune system is saying wtf is this?
> Not at all uncommon.


Thanks for the encouragement.   Fever and chills all day today.  Now it's going away.


----------



## pirate_girl

Lenny said:


> Thanks for the encouragement.   Fever and chills all day today.  Now it's going away.


Yup!
?


----------



## Melensdad

Lenny said:


> Thanks for the encouragement.   Fever and chills all day today.  Now it's going away.


I had the Moderna and had a short period of chills during the night.  Honestly not sure if it was vaccine related or if it was due to the fact that I sleep under heavy blankets and often kick them off.

In any case, chills is a common side effect.  As PG noted, its your body's natural reaction to fight foreign substances.  It is how immunity is built up.


----------



## EastTexFrank

Lenny said:


> I got the second one yesterday.  Pfizer.   I'm feeling pretty shitty today.


That's how it was with me.  It only lasted about 24-hours and then nothing.  I awoke in a sweat about 2:30 in the morning but felt a lot better.  Since then absolutely nothing.  You'll be fine tomorrow ... and almost bullet proof.


----------



## Lenny

EastTexFrank said:


> That's how it was with me.  It only lasted about 24-hours and then nothing.  I awoke in a sweat about 2:30 in the morning but felt a lot better.  Since then absolutely nothing.  You'll be fine tomorrow ... and almost bullet proof.


Yeah, I'm feeling better too.  Fever, chills and VERY tired for 24 hours.  The woman who gave me the shot poked me on top of my arm so the pain migrated up and over the top of my shoulder.  I had to use a heating pad for that when I was sleeping.


----------



## Melensdad

Lenny said:


> Yeah, I'm feeling better too.  Fever, chills and VERY tired for 24 hours.  The woman who gave me the shot poked me on top of my arm so the pain migrated up and over the top of my shoulder.  I had to use a heating pad for that when I was sleeping.


My sister in law had the Pfizer shot.  You report the same reactions that she reported to me.  My brother seemed less bothered by the 2nd shot.  So I guess we are just all different in how we react to these jabs.  The good news is that the 1st shot gave you enough immunity to pretty much keep you alive and out of the hospital if you were to have contracted Covid.  This 2nd shot gives you enough immunity to greatly reduce risk of even getting the virus at all.  Give it a couple weeks build the immunity in your system.  Let's all go out and enjoy life again.


----------



## Melensdad

Covid is now on the RISE again in the USA.  But just barely.  In fact it is growing in states with HIGH VACCINATION RATES.  Reports I'm finding shows it is spreading in younger people (*under the age of 50*).  *10-14% of the population fully vaccinated across the United States.* *A number that I believe is a reasonably meaningless number.*  The media in Chicago seems to be thinking this is important.  

More importantly, looks like we have protected* the MAJORITY of the people aged 50 and above* with at least 1 injection of the predominately 2 injection vaccines.  *80% of all the hospitalizations occur in people aged 55+ years old.  98% of all deaths occur in people aged 55+*.  So as a population group, people over 55 years old are the highest risk.  1 shot of either of the 2 part vaccines is enough to prevent hospitalizations and death. * So the fact that a majority have gotten at least 1 shot should dramatically reduce deaths and hospitalizations.*

We know that younger people are at minimal risk of needing hospitalization with Covid.  HOWEVER the UK variant does tend to affect younger people and cause a few more complications.  It is a growing concern and that variant is spreading very quickly.  Still, a healthy younger person is at fairly modest risk, even with the new variants.  And vaccinations are now moving into younger age groups.  

*Europe is in trouble.*  Paris hospitals are now sending Covid patients to hospitals in the countryside because their intensive care units are overrun and the hospitals can't handle the patient load.  Germany is entering a new phase of lockdowns, which were already far more severe than anything we have seen in the USA.  FULL STORY AT THE LINK:





__





						Zerohedge
					

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero




					www.zerohedge.com
				




Germany Orders Most Restrictive COVID Lockdown Yet Over Easter Weekend​We noted yesterday that Chancellor Angela Merkel had succeeded in persuading the leaders of Germany's 16 states to agree to another extension of the federal lockdown. And while initial reports about Merkel's proposal noted that Germans would receive a reprieve allowing them to spend the Easter holiday with family, apparently, the government appears to have changed its mind again and decided to tighten restrictions to the toughest point yet during a brief stretch coinciding with the Easter holiday weekend to try to defuse a “third wave” of Covid-19 infections fueled by faster-spreading mutations.​​All but the most important services will be closed during the lockdown period, according to RT. Noting that the country is in a "race" to combat the pandemic, Merkel outlined the nationwide shutdown during a news conference early on Tuesday, saying that not only will existing restrictions be extended to April 18, but *that most businesses will be made to close their doors for at least five days beginning on the first of the month* (just before the April 4 holiday) *in what appears to be the most restrictive lockdown in Germany since the start of the pandemic*.​

------------------------------------------------------

*It also looks like the OXFORD-AstraZenica vaccine is in more trouble.* 

While widely used in many parts of the world, and while the USA is sitting on 35,000,000 doses in a stockpile, the drug company is under fire for releasing partial and misleading information.  Full Story at LINK:






						AstraZeneca Admits Vaccine Efficacy Based On "Interim" Data, Vows To Release Update Within 48 Hours | ZeroHedge
					

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero




					www.zerohedge.com
				


​One day after proclaiming to the world that an extremely thorough and credible study based in the US (but carried out both in the US and across South America) had shown its jab to be 79% effective at preventing COVID (and 100% effective at preventing serious cases of the virus-caused disease) US officials are slamming the drug company and the data for possibly misrepresenting the vaccine's efficacy.​​Earlier Tuesday morning, US officials issued an unusual statement expressing concerns the company had included "outdated information" from its study and that it may have provided "an incomplete view of the efficacy data." The concern, according to the Data and Safety Monitoring Board (the group responsible for overseeing trials of new medication and vaccines), is that the report included "outdated information" which may have provided "an incomplete view" of the efficacy data.​


----------



## Ceee

I had my first Pfizer vaccine yesterday, and I'm feeling fine today.


----------



## Melensdad

Indiana lifting mask mandate and full open for businesses that are currently capacity limited.  All businesses are open but some are limited on capacity.  Also anyone who wants a vaccine age 16+ can get vaccinated.  All this begins at the end of the month.

Just got Dasha, my 19 year old fencing student an appointment for vaccination on April 5.  She will have to Uber off campus to downtown South Bend after class.  She will get the Pfizer vaccine.  As she travels internationally and as there is a lot of talk about "vaccine passports" for travel, it makes sense for her to get the shot.  Thankfully the timing is working out well as she will get the 2nd dose before the end of the school year.


----------



## EastTexFrank

Ceee said:


> I had my first Pfizer vaccine yesterday, and I'm feeling fine today.


It's the second one that kilz ya.  

Nah!  Just kidding.  I had a slight reaction to the second one and my wife, who is allergic to just about everything, didn't any reaction at all.  In three weeks you'll be bullet proof.  

What is starting to worry me a little, not for me but for others, is people who have caught Covid, recovered and get vaccinated.  My son who is working in Dubai caught the virus.  He was treated, recovered and is back at work but he was told he could not receive a vaccine shot until at least 3 months had passed.  That didn't upset him all that much as right now they are administering the Chinese vaccine and in 3 months they should have switched to the Pfizer.  Also, a couple we know both caught the virus and the guy was pretty sick with it and still has symptoms after his so called "recovery".  They both got their first shot last week within 2 months of having recovered.  The lady had no problem but her husband went into shock during the 15 minute observation period after the shot.  The nursing staff in attendance handled it and he was allowed to go home after a prolonged observation period.  It just shows that there is still so much that we don't know about this virus and the vaccine we are using to hopefully prevent it.


----------



## Melensdad

MASK MANDATE ENDS SOON: In two weeks, Hoosiers will be urged to, but no longer required to, wear a mask in public.
Face coverings WILL remain mandatory in most school buildings, state buildings and facilities, and in all vaccination and COVID-19 testing sites until further notice.  Private businesses, restaurants, offices, chain stores, etc may continue their own mask mandates.


----------



## Melensdad

EastTexFrank said:


> My son who is working in Dubai caught the virus.  He was treated, recovered and is back at work but he was told he could not receive a vaccine shot until at least 3 months had passed.  That didn't upset him all that much as right now they are administering the Chinese vaccine and in 3 months they should have switched to the Pfizer.


The Sinovac vaccine, from China, is the one vaccine that seems to have no publicly available testing/efficacy/safety data


----------



## EastTexFrank

Melensdad said:


> The Sinovac vaccine, from China, is the one vaccine that seems to have no publicly available testing/efficacy/safety data


And that's why he isn't too upset by the 3-month delay.    

He actually wants to wait until he gets back to the UK and gets the AstraZeneca vaccine even though that seems to be having its problems in Europe.  I told him that if he gets the opportunity to get the Pfizer shot in Dubai.


----------



## Melensdad

EastTexFrank said:


> And that's why he isn't too upset by the 3-month delay.
> 
> He actually wants to wait until he gets back to the UK and gets the AstraZeneca vaccine *even though that seems to be having its problems in Europe.*  I told him that if he gets the opportunity to get the Pfizer shot in Dubai.


I think I'd gladly take the OX/AZ vaccine, the J&J, Pfizer or the Moderna vaccines. 

From what I've also seen the Russian Sputnik V vaccine also looks to be very good and safe, there are now published reports on safety/efficacy for the Russian vaccine too.  

Cuba has a couple that probably will be good too, but are still in trials.  But the Sinovac seems to be low efficacy and has not shared any real data or studies.


----------



## Melensdad

Covid is RISING in the US again. 

Nationwide we are up in 25 States and the rate is 1.5%

Nothing really alarming about that at all.

But some states are surging and some states are declining.  Michigan is up 50% while Texas is still dropping 17 days after the governor lifted the mask mandate.  Also interesting to note that some of the states with high growth also have higher than average vaccination rates ... but MOST of the new cases are younger people,* below the age of 40,* while most of the vaccinations are occurring in older people, *above the age of 50*.

My take on all this is that there are "hot spots" of the new variants that are popping up.  The variants seem to spread quickly in younger people.

It will be interesting to see what happens as we get more and more people vaccinated.  Will hospitalizations stay low as younger people are lower risk, or will the new variants like the one from BRAZIL, prove to be more dangerous to the younger people.  We know that Brazil is having much higher incidence of death and hospitalization of people under 40 than we've seen with the original Chinese virus.  The UK variant also seems to be more contagious among younger people, but not more lethal.


----------



## Ceee

I sure hope this vaccine stuff is something that we don't have to go through every year.  

Any info on the nasal vaccine?  If it's already on here, I apologize.


----------



## Melensdad

Ceee said:


> Any info on the nasal vaccine?  If it's already on here, I apologize.


There is a nasal spray being tested, not sure if it’s a vaccine.  

There is an oral (pill) vaccine that is going into trials that certainly would make distribution easy.


----------



## Ceee

Little good news:









						Pfizer-BioNTech says Covid vaccine is 100% effective in kids ages 12 to 15
					

Pfizer plans to submit the new vaccine data to the FDA "as soon as possible," CEO Albert Bourla said.




					www.cnbc.com
				




"Pfizer said Wednesday its Covid-19 vaccine was 100% effective in a study of adolescents ages 12 to 15, encouraging results that could clear the shots for use in middle school students before school starts this fall."


----------



## m1west

Ceee said:


> Little good news:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pfizer-BioNTech says Covid vaccine is 100% effective in kids ages 12 to 15
> 
> 
> Pfizer plans to submit the new vaccine data to the FDA "as soon as possible," CEO Albert Bourla said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Pfizer said Wednesday its Covid-19 vaccine was 100% effective in a study of adolescents ages 12 to 15, encouraging results that could clear the shots for use in middle school students before school starts this fall."


At 12-15 there immune system is 100%


----------



## EastTexFrank

Ceee said:


> I sure hope this vaccine stuff is something that we don't have to go through every year.



I read somewhere that Pfizer says that its vaccine is effective for up to 6 months.  As time goes by and we get more data that timeframe may be extended ... or not.


----------



## Ceee

m1west said:


> At 12-15 there immune system is 100%


I agree that the younger teens' numbers are low.  If Pfizer can figure out how to get them all a little safer, I'm all for it.

https://apnews.com/article/pfizer-c...ounger-teens-43b33e2b90ee8660c5a4d9d161331f9e

"Children represent about 13% of COVID-19 cases documented in the U.S. And while children are far less likely than adults to get seriously ill, at least 268 have died from COVID-19 in the U.S. alone and more than 13,500 have been hospitalized, according to a tally by the American Academy of Pediatrics. That’s more than die from the flu in an average year. Additionally, a small number have developed a serious inflammatory condition linked to the coronavirus."


----------



## pirate_girl

My son Jeff got his first dose of Moderna yesterday. That was at 3pm.
By 8pm he told me he felt like shit and was running a temp.
I checked up on him at midnight and he said he felt fine.
This morning his arm is very sore.

One of my old college friends got the single dose Johnson and Johnson last week. She lives in Kent, Ohio/Portage Co.
No side effects whatsoever.


----------



## Melensdad

EastTexFrank said:


> I read somewhere that Pfizer says that its vaccine is effective for up to 6 months.  As time goes by and we get more data that timeframe may be extended ... or not.


They can only claim 6 months because that is all the actual data they have.  Most doctors I know guess it will be much much longer (years) but the variants may not be effectively covered too far into the future


----------



## Melensdad




----------



## pirate_girl




----------



## Melensdad

PG, just curious, does that mean that OHIO is now "open for business" again?


----------



## pirate_girl

Melensdad said:


> PG, just curious, does that mean that OHIO is now "open for business" again?


Looks like they just rewrote the orders.
This link.
Like we aren't already confused enough.









						Here's exactly what's in the state's new all-encompassing health order, and which orders have been rescinded
					

The director of the Ohio Department of Health formally issued a new, all-encompassing health order Monday while simultaneously rescinding the patchwork of health orders that have been issued over the last year. Here is everything that is in both of those orders.




					www.news5cleveland.com


----------



## Melensdad

pirate_girl said:


> Looks like they just rewrote the orders.
> This link.
> Like we aren't already confused enough.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's exactly what's in the state's new all-encompassing health order, and which orders have been rescinded
> 
> 
> The director of the Ohio Department of Health formally issued a new, all-encompassing health order Monday while simultaneously rescinding the patchwork of health orders that have been issued over the last year. Here is everything that is in both of those orders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.news5cleveland.com


So you are still under some sort of business restrictions?  

Indiana has lifted ALL restrictions on businesses, ended the mask mandate, etc.  Businesses may choose to have a mask policy but there is no longer any restriction on restaurant capacity, social distancing, etc

When I saw your post I was wondering if Ohio was doing something similar.


----------



## pirate_girl

Melensdad said:


> So you are still under some sort of business restrictions?
> 
> Indiana has lifted ALL restrictions on businesses, ended the mask mandate, etc.  Businesses may choose to have a mask policy but there is no longer any restriction on restaurant capacity, social distancing, etc
> 
> When I saw your post I was wondering if Ohio was doing something similar.


Yes still under restrictions.
It just seems like we're being strung along.
None of it makes sense.








						Ohio Governor Lays Out Plan to Rescind COVID-19 Orders | News Radio 610 WTVN
					

It revolves around the number of cases per 100,000 people, and DeWine says the state is headed in the right direction




					610wtvn.iheart.com


----------



## pirate_girl

And that last link was the wrong one.
Ooof.. sorry.
It's been one of those days.
?


----------



## Melensdad

And another reason to NOT want to get Covid19

Full story is at the link but here is the first part of the article:  https://finance.yahoo.com/news/third-covid-survivors-suffer-neurological-223000621.html



A third of COVID survivors suffer neurological or mental disorders -study​Tue, April 6, 2021, 5:30 PM
By Kate Kelland

LONDON, April 6 (Reuters) - One in three COVID-19 survivors in a study of more than 230,000 mostly American patients were diagnosed with a brain or psychiatric disorder within six months, suggesting the pandemic could lead to a wave of mental and neurological problems, scientists said on Tuesday.

Researchers who conducted the analysis said it was not clear how the virus was linked to psychiatric conditions such as anxiety and depression, but that these were the most common diagnoses among the 14 disorders they looked at.

Post-COVID cases of stroke, dementia and other neurological disorders were rarer, the researchers said, but were still significant, especially in those who had severe COVID-19.

"Our results indicate that *brain diseases and psychiatric disorders are more common after COVID-19 than after flu or other respiratory infections,*" said Max Taquet, a psychiatrist at Britain's Oxford University, who co-led the work.

The study was not able to determine the biological or psychological mechanisms involved, he said, but urgent research is needed to identify these "with a view to preventing or treating them".

Health experts are increasingly concerned by evidence of higher risks of brain and mental health disorders among COVID-19 survivors.* A previous study by the same researchers found last year that 20% of COVID-19 survivors were diagnosed with a psychiatric disorder within three months.*

The new findings, published in the Lancet Psychiatry journal, analysed health records of 236,379 COVID-19 patients, mostly from the United States, and found 34% had been diagnosed with neurological or psychiatric illnesses within six months.

*The disorders were significantly more common in COVID-19 patients than in comparison groups of people who recovered from flu or other respiratory infections* over the same time period, the scientists said, suggesting COVID-19 had a specific impact. . . .


----------



## Melensdad

Today the University of Notre Dame joined a growing list of both PUBLIC and PRIVATE colleges that will REQUIRE a Covid vaccination before students can arrive on campus in the fall of 2021.

I personally believe that getting a Covid19 vaccine is a good idea ... BUT there is no way that I support MANDATORY vaccinations.  I also strongly oppose the so-called "vaccine passports" that seem to be gaining favor with the authoritarians.  We should not need to prove to private businesses, airlines, or public entities that we have had a specific vaccine.


----------



## EastTexFrank

Actually, I think that I already have a "vaccine passport".  I have a card from the hospital that administered the shots that shows the location, date and time, the maker of the vaccine, and other relevant data.  It's filed away somewhere but it should satisfy anyone interested in such information.  Other than that there is no way that I am going to carry an official vaccine passport.  Screw them.


----------



## Melensdad

EastTexFrank said:


> Actually, I think that I already have a "vaccine passport".  I have a card from the hospital that administered the shots that shows the location, date and time, the maker of the vaccine, and other relevant data.  It's filed away somewhere but it should satisfy anyone interested in such information.  Other than that there is no way that I am going to carry an official vaccine passport.  Screw them.


The vaccine passport that they are referring to is some sort of ELECTRONIC passport that would be on your smartphone.  It would be a unique Quick Scan code, you would display it to gain entry to restaurants, sporting events, airlines, etc.  Basically in order to live your life again you would be forced to walk around and have your code scanned by any private business or public entity that chooses to require it.

It would be updatable with OTHER medical information, additional vaccines, etc.  

Currently several major air carriers are working on a scheme like this, as is the state of New York, as is the whole European Union and many others.  Google and all the big players in Silicone Valley are working on their own schemes too.

The paper card, issued by the CDS, is too easy to fake.  Many nurses have been caught stealing blank cards and filling them out falsely.  That is not the vaccine passport to which is commonly referred when the term is used.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Vaccine passports are racist.  How are the "underprivileged" expected to be able to have these when they can't even figure out how to get government issued ID.


----------



## Melensdad

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq said:


> Vaccine passports are racist.  How are the "underprivileged" expected to be able to have these when they can't even figure out how to get government issued ID.


Texas & Florida both have Executive Orders, issued by their governors, preventing mandatory "vaccine passports" within their borders.  

Legislatures in Indiana and a handful of other "red" states are moving on laws to prevent a mandatory "vaccine passport" within their borders.  Laws are harder to change than Executive Orders, but also harder to implement, so there are advantages and disadvantages to this approach.  

New York State already has its own state issued vaccine passport.  There are reports of failure and fraud already.


----------



## Melensdad

Today is the day that INDIANA colleges and universities will begin to vaccinate their students.

The State of Indiana sent vaccines, of sufficient quantities to vaccinate all students + staff, to nearly all (perhaps all) colleges and universities in the state.  At least to the campuses that have residence units where the students primarily live on/near campus.  I'm not sure if they are also vaccinating at community colleges other than the state operated community colleges. 

Most of the schools are making this optional (_for now_).  Several colleges and universities are making it MANDATORY for students to return to campus NEXT SEMESTER but for now the vaccines are not required.

Indiana sent the PFIZER vaccine to these universities as that vaccine is approved for students aged 16 and older.


----------



## m1west

Was listening to the news on the radio a little while ago. Report said some people are getting the COVID fully vaccinated. Fauci said they must have compromised immune systems. Thats classic, it just doesn't get any better


----------



## pirate_girl

m1west said:


> Was listening to the news on the radio a little while ago. Report said some people are getting the COVID fully vaccinated. Fauci said they must have compromised immune systems. Thats classic, it just doesn't get any better


We had a woman pass from complications of testing positive for covid after she'd already had it last year, AND she had received both Moderna vaccines.
She did not pass at our facility, but at the hospital in Toledo. Last week.
Looks like we're back to all social distancing, still in masks, blah blah blah..
Nothing is changing.
We're basically the same as Michigan.


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> Was listening to the news on the radio a little while ago. Report said some people are getting the COVID fully vaccinated. Fauci said they must have compromised immune systems. Thats classic, it just doesn't get any better



The vaccines claim to be roughly 70% to 95% effective.  

So it is actually logical that SOME people who are vaccinated with get covid.  That should NOT be a surprise to anyone.  But look at the data.  Seriously look at the actual data.  There are literally over 100,000,000 million people fully vaccinated and a couple hundred fully vaccinated got Covid.  Of those couple hundred who got covid, only a couple dozen got sick enough to end up in the hospital.  

Do the math, those are great odds.


----------



## Melensdad

USA may be close to reaching all the people who actually WANT the vaccine.  But once we meet demand, will we have administered enough to reach "herd immunity" in the population?  

Herd immunity is estimated to be about 80% of the population as either recovered from Covid -or- immunized with the vaccine.    Originally Dr Fauci said 'herd' would be about 70%, but now the more contagious variants have taken over and more reliable scientists _(who are less political than Fauci)_ suggest that herd is roughly 80% of the population.  The combined immunized & recovered in the US population is not even close to 70%.  









						America may be close to hitting a vaccine wall
					

The number of people who are eager for a vaccine is shrinking.




					www.axios.com
				




America may be close to hitting a vaccine wall​​There are growing signs that parts of the country may be close to meeting demand for the coronavirus vaccine — well before the U.S. has reached herd immunity. ​​*Why it matters: *For the last few months, the primary focus of the U.S. has been getting shots to everyone who wants them, as quickly as possible. Soon, that focus will abruptly shift to convincing holdouts to get vaccinated.​​*State of play: *Red states in the South are administering the lowest portion of the vaccine doses that they receive from the federal government — a sign of low demand, slow public health systems, or both. ​​
The most vaccine-reluctant Americans are white Republicans, polling has found.
*By the numbers: *On average, states have administered 76% of the doses they've received from the federal government. New Hampshire has administered the largest share of all states, at 89.8%, while Alabama has administered the smallest — only 61.4% of its doses.​​*Driving the news: *An analysis released by Surgo Ventures yesterday concluded that "the supply-demand shift for the vaccine will happen earlier than expected — as early as the end of April — and _before _the nation reaches the 70-90% threshold for achieving herd immunity."​​
It released a survey finding that 59% of U.S. adults say they're either already vaccinated, or plan to be as soon as the shot is made available to them. At the current U.S. vaccination rate, all of those vaccine-enthusiastic adults could be inoculated by the end of April. 
Vaccination rates will then slow, and Surgo's projections show that only around 52% of Americans will be vaccinated by July. When combined with people who have already been infected, the immunity rate overall may be around 65% by then — still not high enough for herd immunity.
*What they're saying: *“This analysis shows that despite the general vaccine enthusiasm we are seeing now in the United States, things are going to get really difficult really soon,” said Sema Sgaier, Surgo's CEO.​​
“Without significant investment in addressing people’s barriers _and _making vaccines available to those below 18, reaching herd immunity will be a real challenge.”
*A separate survey *of rural Americans, released by KFF this morning, found that while they're more likely to have already been vaccinated than urban and suburban Americans, there are fewer remaining rural residents who are eager to get their shots.​​
39% have already gotten at least one dose of the vaccine, 16% say they'll get it as soon as possible, and 15% said they want to "wait and see." 
Another 9% said they'll only get vaccinated if required, and 21% said they definitely won't. In suburban areas, a combined 21% said they were vaccine resistant, and only a combined 16% of urban residents said the same. 
Among rural residents who said they definitely won't get vaccinated, almost three-quarters were Republicans or Republican-leaning, and 41% were white Evangelical Christians.
*The bottom line: *Rural, Republican-heavy states are likely blowing through their vaccine-eager populations.​​


----------



## EastTexFrank

*"The bottom line: *Rural, Republican-heavy states are likely blowing through their vaccine-eager populations."

That's what we are starting to see here in East Texas.

I was talking to the manager of our CVS pharmacy and she said that when they started administering the vaccine they had a crazy three weeks followed by another crazy three weeks as people got their second shots but since then the number of people has dwindled to the point that they are taking walk-ins and anyone 16+ years old without an appointment.  

I don't know if that means we are reaching a vaccine saturation point where everyone who wants the vaccine has pretty much got it.  Most of the older people that I know have been vaccinated along with a lot of middle aged people.  Some reckon that since they have already had COVID and recovered that they don't need the vaccine.  I suppose that argument has some merit, I'm just not sure how much.  I still know a few who refuse to get the shots and almost always because they don't want the Government telling them what they should and shouldn't do.


----------



## Ceee

EastTexFrank said:


> they are taking walk-ins and anyone 16+ years old without an appointment.


I think a lot of people just don't know that yet or just can't find a walk-in place.  I just looked in my area, and the major hubs still say "no walk ins."



Melensdad said:


> Rural, Republican-heavy states are likely blowing through their vaccine-eager populations.


If they would handle the covid vaccines like they do the flu shot where you can just walk in and get it when it's convenient, without having to make an appt for a specific day/time, then I think more vaccines would be administered.   Hopefully, we're going to be moving toward that as more vaccines are available and more restrictions are lifted.

A lot of people just don't want to jump through all those hoops to make an online appt, some may not have internet access, and many probably just don't want to put all their personal info out there on the internet.  A lot of people think the internet is evil.


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> The vaccines claim to be roughly 70% to 95% effective.
> 
> So it is actually logical that SOME people who are vaccinated with get covid.  That should NOT be a surprise to anyone.  But look at the data.  Seriously look at the actual data.  There are literally over 100,000,000 million people fully vaccinated and a couple hundred fully vaccinated got Covid.  Of those couple hundred who got covid, only a couple dozen got sick enough to end up in the hospital





Melensdad said:


> The vaccines claim to be roughly 70% to 95% effective.
> 
> So it is actually logical that SOME people who are vaccinated with get covid.  That should NOT be a surprise to anyone.  But look at the data.  Seriously look at the actual data.  There are literally over 100,000,000 million people fully vaccinated and a couple hundred fully vaccinated got Covid.  Of those couple hundred who got covid, only a couple dozen got sick enough to end up in the hospital.
> 
> Do the math, those are great odds.


The way they made it sound it isn't just a couple hundred, we will see.


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> The way they made it sound it isn't just a couple hundred, we will see.


I know there were some state numbers published and I've seen some other numbers published.  I also have been watching the VAERS numbers (_which are raw numbers and then later investigated_) and depending upon which numbers you watch, and how closely you check the data, its pretty clear that the vaccines are actually very safe.  Not sure how effective they actually are, but they seem to be pretty effective in the real world.

There are actually a couple thousand people who have died within a week of getting one of the Covid vaccines in the United States.  And I limit my comments to the USA because there are only 3 legal vaccines in the USA, but there are a dozen international vaccines in use, so I'm only commenting on the 3 vaccines legal in the USA.  The average age of those who died within a week of taking a vaccine is in the late 70's and most had serious underlying conditions.  Most of those probably died from old age.  Many were essentially on death's door and just happened to have been vaccinated within a few days prior to their death.  Very unlikely that the vaccine was the cause of their deaths.  But they were reported under the VAERS reporting system. Basically healthy people don't die from the vaccine, regardless of their age.  Unhealthy people probably don't die from the vaccine either, they probably die because they were unhealthy and a small % happened to die shortly after taking a vaccine.


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> I know there were some state numbers published and I've seen some other numbers published.  I also have been watching the VAERS numbers (_which are raw numbers and then later investigated_) and depending upon which numbers you watch, and how closely you check the data, its pretty clear that the vaccines are actually very safe.  Not sure how effective they actually are, but they seem to be pretty effective in the real world.
> 
> There are actually a couple thousand people who have died within a week of getting one of the Covid vaccines in the United States.  And I limit my comments to the USA because there are only 3 legal vaccines in the USA, but there are a dozen international vaccines in use, so I'm only commenting on the 3 vaccines legal in the USA.  The average age of those who died within a week of taking a vaccine is in the late 70's and most had serious underlying conditions.  Most of those probably died from old age.  Many were essentially on death's door and just happened to have been vaccinated within a few days prior to their death.  Very unlikely that the vaccine was the cause of their deaths.  But they were reported under the VAERS reporting system. Basically healthy people don't die from the vaccine, regardless of their age.  Unhealthy people probably don't die from the vaccine either, they probably die because they were unhealthy and a small % happened to die shortly after taking a vaccine.


What I am thinking is folks with a good immune system may be getting COVID after being vaccinated also, but not being reported due to lack of symptoms. I think the experts need to do a control group of folks that are vaccinated  ranging  in health from good to bad, then expose them to the virus and see what happens.


----------



## Ceee

m1west said:


> I think the experts need to do a control group of folks that are vaccinated ranging in health from good to bad, then expose them to the virus and see what happens.


Something tells me that the experts might have a really hard time finding volunteers for that control group.  My immune system seems to be pretty good and I'm in pretty good health, but I sure wouldn't volunteer for that study.  Would you?


----------



## m1west

Ceee said:


> Something tells me that the experts might have a really hard time finding volunteers for that control group.  My immune system seems to be pretty good and I'm in pretty good health, but I sure wouldn't volunteer for that study.  Would you?


I have not got the vaccine yet. Control groups like that are done all the time, I'm sure they get compensated well. Would you trust a condom that might work 70% of the time? If its actually 70% effective, I don't see the point of getting the vaccine.  At 70% that would be a false sense of security, like guard rail on a mountain road made from paper.


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> What I am thinking is folks with a good immune system may be getting COVID after being vaccinated also, but not being reported due to lack of symptoms.* I think the experts need to do a control group of folks that are vaccinated*  ranging  in health from good to bad, then expose them to the virus and see what happens.


This was already done in Israel.

Israel is probably the most highly vaccinated country, they are way ahead of the rest of the world.  They have been studying vaccinated people, vaccinated infected people, etc.  

Lots of good data is coming from Isreal.


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> I have not got the vaccine yet. Control groups like that are done all the time, I'm sure they get compensated well. Would you trust a condom that might work 70% of the time? If its actually 70% effective, I don't see the point of getting the vaccine.  At 70% that would be a false sense of security, like guard rail on a mountain road made from paper.


I think with the ORIGINAL STRAINS of Covid there is very little need for healthy people under the age of 55 to get vaccinated.  Between ages 55-65 its a roll of the dice, but if you are healthy its not a bad gamble.  If you have underlying conditions and you are of any age then it is probably worth getting the vaccine.  

Simply taking Vitamin D, roughly 3000 to 5000 iu every single day appears to have a lot of scientific evidence that your risks will be minimized and it may actually help prevent you from getting the disease at all.  

The problem is that the UK variant seems to be putting YOUNGER people (_30 to 55 years old_) into the hospital.  The UK variant is currently the dominant variant in Michigan.  It seems to be far more contagious and seems to also be somewhat more serious if you get it.  Not sure how much.  So data from 60, 90 and 120 days ago, which does not include the newer UK variant, may be out of date.  Newer data from the past 60 days, which includes the UK variant data, is probably more reliable on the current state of the disease.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

Seing as Ontario is currently in a lockdown stay at home order until at least the end of the month and stores can only sell "essential items" in person and clothing and masks are deemed as a non essential item, this guy took to the streets to protest. No clothes except a g string and no mask. The stores up here are only allowed to sell groceries and pharmaceutical products in person. Everything else has to be ordered online for curbside pickup.


----------



## Melensdad

Our daughter Melen (_age 26_) got her 2nd Pfizer dose on Thursday.  Felt somewhat ill, with flu like symptoms all day Friday, headache most of the day on Saturday.  Felt better on Sunday.

Dasha (_age 19_) got her 1st dose of Pfizer's vaccine on Sunday afternoon.  Sunday evening she had a very sore arm.  This morning she is feeling much better.

One of my high school fencers (_age 17_) got her first dose yesterday too.  She only reports moderate soreness yesterday, feeling fine today.

Indiana seems to be moving along nicely with getting the doses out to people who want them.  We now have a new "drive thru" vaccination site in the north part of our county that can accommodate a few thousand jabs a day.

Seems like a lot more people I talk to are now *hesitating on getting the vaccine*.  Most of them are in the more rural areas where I live, but in the more suburban and city areas it seems to be that there are still plenty of people who want to get the vaccines.  2 basic arguments I hear are 1- I don't trust the government and 2- Covid is no big deal.  Most of these people are in the low risk category, under the age of 55.  I would not be surprised to find out if Indiana ends up being one of the states that has a high % of people who don't get vaccinated, especially in the more rural communities.


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> Our daughter Melen (_age 26_) got her 2nd Pfizer dose on Thursday.  Felt somewhat ill, with flu like symptoms all day Friday, headache most of the day on Saturday.  Felt better on Sunday.
> 
> Dasha (_age 19_) got her 1st dose of Pfizer's vaccine on Sunday afternoon.  Sunday evening she had a very sore arm.  This morning she is feeling much better.
> 
> One of my high school fencers (_age 17_) got her first dose yesterday too.  She only reports moderate soreness yesterday, feeling fine today.
> 
> Indiana seems to be moving along nicely with getting the doses out to people who want them.  We now have a new "drive thru" vaccination site in the north part of our county that can accommodate a few thousand jabs a day.
> 
> Seems like a lot more people I talk to are now *hesitating on getting the vaccine*.  Most of them are in the more rural areas where I live, but in the more suburban and city areas it seems to be that there are still plenty of people who want to get the vaccines.  2 basic arguments I hear are 1- I don't trust the government and 2- Covid is no big deal.  Most of these people are in the low risk category, under the age of 55.  I would not be surprised to find out if Indiana ends up being one of the states that has a high % of people who don't get vaccinated, especially in the more rural communities.


I have heard different reports on how long it will be effective before you would need a booster shot from 6 months to 2 years and everything in-between. What is your understanding?


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> I have heard different reports on how long it will be effective before you would need a booster shot from 6 months to 2 years and everything in-between. What is your understanding?


The vaccines have only existed for about 6 months so they cannot claim they are effective for longer than they have existed.  

The only reason to get a booster now is to safeguard against the variants from Brazil and South Africa.  The UK variant seems to be controlled, at least to some extent, by the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines.  A future new variant could also require a booster.  

But right now, if we set mutated variants aside, the vaccines are probably good for a few years.  That is a guess.  But it’s based on a lot of observations of other vaccines.  

SOME of the variants may require a vaccine, but some may not really be much of an issue. Right now the UK mutation seems to be winning, the South African strain may be fading a bit.  The Brazil strain is the dark horse right now.


----------



## FrancSevin

*From the OP..................…;Corona Virus spreading ... US official says no need to worry
*

There is something fascinating about science.
One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact.
Mark Twain

Researchers have already cast much darkness on the subject,
and if they continue their investigations,
we shall soon know nothing at all about it.
Mark Twain​


----------



## Melensdad

The FDA has recommended the single dose J&J vaccine be suspended.

All federal vaccination sites have stopped using it as of today.  I know SOME _(perhaps all)_ of the States are also suspending the use of the J&J vaccine.  Its too bad, being that it only requires a single dose it was certainly easier and quicker to administer.


----------



## pirate_girl

Melensdad said:


> The FDA has recommended the single dose J&J vaccine be suspended.
> 
> All federal vaccination sites have stopped using it as of today.  I know SOME _(perhaps all)_ of the States are also suspending the use of the J&J vaccine.  Its too bad, being that it only requires a single dose it was certainly easier and quicker to administer.


I've a friend Traci who received the J&J.
So far she hasn't reported anything bad.
She probably won't.
It's been long enough.
Initially I was going to hold out for it, but happy I didn't now.


----------



## pirate_girl

FrancSevin said:


> *From the OP..................…;Corona Virus spreading ... US official says no need to worry*
> 
> 
> There is something fascinating about science.
> One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact.
> Mark Twain
> 
> Researchers have already cast much darkness on the subject,
> and if they continue their investigations,
> we shall soon know nothing at all about it.
> Mark Twain​


At first I didn't worry.
Then I got educated in real time on how horrible covid was (17+ deaths in our facility).
Then......
Here we are.
Please let THIS all be over soon.
Enough already!!


----------



## pirate_girl

90 pages in on this thread and waaaay back then I thought this wouldn't turn into quite the thing that it has.
I'm still of the mindset that we're being controlled.
As of today, we've been told it's back to the blue paper masks, no more n95's.
One day goes into the other.


----------



## FrancSevin

pirate_girl said:


> 90 pages in on this thread and waaaay back then I thought this wouldn't turn into quite the thing that it has.
> I'm still of the mindset that we're being controlled.
> As of today, we've been told it's back to the blue paper masks, no more n95's.
> One day goes into the other.


Using the paper masks to defend against COVID-19 is like keeping mosquitoes at bay with a chain link fence.

Worthless marking of one's boundaries.  But, if it makes one _feel_ better, more co-operative, safer and more  a part of the sheep herd, go for it.


----------



## Melensdad

FrancSevin said:


> Using the paper masks to defend against COVID-19 is like keeping mosquitoes at bay with a chain link fence.
> 
> Worthless marking of one's boundaries.  But, if it makes one _feel_ better, more co-operative, safer and more  a part of the sheep herd, go for it.


N95 masks (or better) will protect the wearer to a reasonable degree.  Cotton masks are worthless and just for show.  Surgical style masks may have some very limited value, but probably don't.  There are plenty of facts to back those statements up.  The reality is that if the vaccines work then we don't need masks so logically the only reason vaccinated people need to wear masks is for compliance because unvaccinated people cannot be visually differentiated from vaccinated people.  

I think good masks are a good idea, assuming they are properly fitted and kept hygienic.  I know that most masks are worthless and many people rewear dirty masks day after day after day and they are no more sanitary than a used dishrag.


----------



## pirate_girl

St. Joseph's college in Maine are fining for not wearing masks.









						Saint Joseph’s College Fines Students $50 For Not Wearing Masks – CBS Boston | Trends
					

Saint Joseph’s College in Maine is giving $50 tickets to students who violate the school's face mask requirement.




					trends.gab.com


----------



## Melensdad

pirate_girl said:


> St. Joseph's college in Maine are fining for not wearing masks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Saint Joseph’s College Fines Students $50 For Not Wearing Masks – CBS Boston | Trends
> 
> 
> Saint Joseph’s College in Maine is giving $50 tickets to students who violate the school's face mask requirement.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> trends.gab.com


More and more colleges are planning to require students be vaccinated by the start of Fall 2021 semester.  

Breaking mask rules at several colleges will get you disciplinary action.  

No question that schools are treating this seriously, lots of staff and professors are 'at risk' individuals.


----------



## Melensdad

And now Moderna will have a booster.  Not unexpected.

FULL STORY AT LINK:  https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-vaccine-booster-shots-moderna/#app


Moderna plans to have third vaccine booster shot ready by fall​April 18, 2021 / 8:38 AM
By Megan Cerullo
COVID-19 vaccine maker Moderna will make a third booster shot for its two-dose vaccine available to Americans by the fall, CEO Stéphane Bancel said this week. 

Moderna's vaccine is more than 90% effective against the coronavirus six months after the second shot, studies show. What remains unclear is how long immunity from the virus lasts. 

The same is true of Pfizer's two-dose COVID-19 vaccine. 
....
A third booster shot against the virus is not yet required, but health experts say it could provide additional immunity against COVID-19 variants that are beginning to spread to the U.S. from Brazil, South Africa and the United Kingdom.....


----------



## Roofgardener

The UK are just starting a study of a thousand (?) students who have received their two vaccinations. They are going to be deliberately exposed to COVID-19 again, including the Brazilian and South African strains, to see how well the vaccines work.  

Apparantly they are liberal arts students, so no matter how it goes, it's a win-win situation


----------



## Melensdad




----------



## mla2ofus

And we, the taxpayers put a lot of money in it for a not so good return on it.


----------



## Ceee

Melensdad said:


> This 2nd shot gives you enough immunity to greatly reduce risk of even getting the virus at all. Give it a couple weeks build the immunity in your system. Let's all go out and enjoy life again.


That's sure what I'm hoping.  I had my second vaccine Monday, felt puny Tuesday for a little while, slept for 10 hours last night, and feeling pretty good today.


----------



## pirate_girl

__





						Indianapolis Motor Speedway plans to host up to 135,000 fans for 2021 Indy 500
					





					www.msn.com
				




??

One year after the Indianapolis 500 was held without a single fan in attendance for the first time ever, the Indianapolis Motor Speedway plans to host up to 135,000 fans for the May 30 Indianapolis 500, or 40% of the track's unofficial capacity, Penske Entertainment Corp. officials announced Wednesday. That number of fans, as well as the track's health and safety plan, have been approved by the Marion County Public Health Department.

At that capacity limit, race day at IMS stands to be the highest-attended sporting event in the U.S., and potentially the largest enclosed gathering of people, since the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic early last year.


----------



## Melensdad

Just wanted to post this graphic.

Notice the AGE GROUPS that are reluctant to get the Covid vaccine.

The media tends to report on the POLITICAL DIVIDE between the people who get the vaccine and those who don't but there seems to be a lot more to the story than politics as younger people tend to be far more liberal than older people and also tend to be more afraid of the side effects of the vaccine than they are of the covid-19.    Even the age group 40-49 is pretty close to evenly divided on the risks but that is the first group to rate the disease as more of a risk than the vaccine. 

It should be noted that the US has just surpassed 50% vaccination rate* (1 dose)* for adults.  The FULLY *(2 dose)* vaccinated rate and has just hit 25% of the adult population. 






One other think I want to point out is that Chile has a very high vaccination rate, higher than the USA.  *They also have a high rate of covid infections occurring in VACCINATED people.*  Chile used the SinoVac vaccine, which was developed in China, has a claimed efficacy rate of approximately 50%, their test data has not been subjected to peer review, and most media sources are NOT pointing out the facts about the nation's choice of vaccine.  So much of the news reported about the South American nation seems to be scare tactics.  I see it used to scare people into getting vaccinations.  I also see it used by anti-Vax sources to prove that vaccines don't work.  Don't buy either story.  *Just understand that the SinoVac Vaccine is NOT used by any modern Western civilized nation for a very good reason!  *


----------



## EastTexFrank

*Just understand that the SinoVac Vaccine is NOT used by any modern Western civilized nation for a very good reason!*

My son caught COVID while working in Dubai.  It was a relatively mild case.  He did his 14-day isolation and is just fine.  He can't take a vaccine shot until 3-months after his recovery date but that suits him just fine as they are using the SinoVac vaccine at present. By the time that he is eligible to take the shot they will have switched 100% to the Pfizer vaccine.  From all that I have heard and read about the SinoVac vaccine I'm not sure that I would be in a rush to take that stuff myself.


----------



## Melensdad

EastTexFrank said:


> *Just understand that the SinoVac Vaccine is NOT used by any modern Western civilized nation for a very good reason!*
> 
> My son caught COVID while working in Dubai.  It was a relatively mild case.  He did his 14-day isolation and is just fine.  He can't take a vaccine shot until 3-months after his recovery date but that suits him just fine as they are using the SinoVac vaccine at present. By the time that he is eligible to take the shot they will have switched 100% to the Pfizer vaccine. * From all that I have heard and read about the SinoVac vaccine I'm not sure that I would be in a rush to take that stuff myself.*


I think I'd do a slow walk to try to avoid that vaccine.  

From what I can tell the Sputnik V from Russia looks to be very good.  In fact it might be better than either of the J&J or the AstraZenica vaccines.  At least I see no blood clotting reports from the Sputnik V vaccine.


----------



## Melensdad

Both the Indiana House & Senate passed a Bill banning so called vaccine passports.  It does not stop private businesses from requiring proof of health but bans any government entity from requiring or issuing such a thing.  

Several state governors have issued similar orders, but those can be overturned by legislative action or reversed by a future governor.  Legislative actions like today’s actions in Indiana are more difficult to overturn.


----------



## FrancSevin

I will be traveling through Illinois, Indiana, Ohio and Pennsylvania next week.  Indiana will be fine but,  Do any of these other states have the draconian vaccine passports?


----------



## Melensdad

FrancSevin said:


> I will be traveling through Illinois, Indiana, Ohio and Pennsylvania next week.  Indiana will be fine but,  Do any of these other states have the draconian vaccine passports?


Currently I believe only one state issues Vaccine Passports.  That state is NY.  Their system has already failed. 

But I'm not even sure what the vaccine passports are going to be used for in the states that are looking to issue them.  Probably airline and Amtrak travel.  Possibly to attend college.  Possibly to get into a major sporting event?  

For now, especially if traveling by car and staying in a hotel there is no need to worry about a vaccine passport.  I travel into Illinois and Ohio on a regular basis, by car, no issues.  Illinois has a theoretical self quarantine procedure but there is no mechanism to enforce it.  So when I visit my daughter I am supposed to stay in a hotel for 10 (?) days in isolation before I visit her or go anywhere.  Huh???  I go to Columbus OH about every 3rd week, give or take.  Stay at hotels.  Eat at restaurants.  Not an issue.


----------



## Melensdad

Some good news being reported out of Israel.

Israel has roughly 80% of their population vaccinated.

They just reported ZERO deaths from Covid.









						Israel records ZERO daily Covid deaths for first time in ten months
					

For the first time in 10 months, Israel haven't recorded a death related to Covid-19. Data shows  their national total staying on 6,346 deaths.




					www.dailymail.co.uk
				




Israel records ZERO daily Covid deaths for first time in ten months​Israel has recorded no new daily Covid death for the first time in ten months as it continues to lead the world in its vaccination drive.​​Figures show the country's coronavirus death tolls remained unchanged at 6,346 on Thursday.​​The last time Israel recorded zero Covid death was at the end of June last year. Hospitals have now started closing its specialist coronavirus wards after daily death toll plunged in recent weeks.​​Israel continues to lead the world in its vaccination drive, with more than 80 per cent of its adult population vaccinated.​​

For the first time in 10 months, Israel have not recorded a single death related to Covid-19. it comes after the Israeli government dropped rules requiring people to wear face coverings when outside​​

Israel continues to lead the world in its vaccination drive, with the country having recently hit the landmark or having 80 per cent of its adult population vaccinated​​With only one death having been recorded the day before, it appears as though the rate at which people are dying from the virus in Israel is slowing.​​Israeli columnist Nadav Eyal Tweeted about the landmark achievement yesterday.​​In the Tweet he said: 'For the first time in 10 months, no Israeli died of Covid-19 in the last 24 hours.​​'Special Corona wards have closed in all hospitals and share of positive cases stands now on 0.4% with dozens of thousands of tests per day, in a 9M population. #Covid_EndGame.'​​The last time that Israel managed to record zero coronavirus deaths was 299 days ago on June 29, 2020, following a series of lockdown restrictions which helped contain the first wave of the virus.​​STORY CONTINUES AT THE LINK ABOVE​


----------



## Melensdad

Couple of interesting graphs, first shows that the "DEFINITELY NOT" has pretty much remained constant as far as getting vaccinated, the next group, "ONLY IF REQUIRED" seems to have also remained fairly stable.  The 2 groups combined equal approximately 20% to 22% of the population.  These groups are not really fluctuating much.

The WAIT AND SEE group is clearly shrinking as time progresses and those people are shifting toward getting vaccinated.

The second graph breaks down the groups by demographic data, race/religion/politics/age/etc


----------



## pirate_girl

Swollen lymph nodes after vaccine could mean you already had the virus.
Veddy interesting...









						Swollen lymph nodes following COVID-19 vaccination could mean you already had virus, study suggests
					

Since the rollout of the COVID-19 vaccine, public health officials have warned of the possible side effects following vaccination, such as pain at the injection site, fever, or muscle […]




					www.bizpacreview.com


----------



## mla2ofus

pirate_girl said:


> Swollen lymph nodes after vaccine could mean you already had the virus.
> Veddy interesting...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Swollen lymph nodes following COVID-19 vaccination could mean you already had virus, study suggests
> 
> 
> Since the rollout of the COVID-19 vaccine, public health officials have warned of the possible side effects following vaccination, such as pain at the injection site, fever, or muscle […]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bizpacreview.com


So should I get the antibody test first?


----------



## CrakHoBarbie

mla2ofus said:


> So should I get the antibody test first?











						COVID-19 Vaccine FAQ
					






					www.icsi.org


----------



## pirate_girl

A pic of a long-hauler.
Well, not exactly because he was discharged months ago, but he still comes to see us for PT.
He's home, off o2 and doing just fine.
My man! ?


----------



## Melensdad

Long Haul complications are one of the scary parts of this disease.  Lots of anecdotal evidence that Ivermectin treats long haul very effectively but as it is a generic drug and covid is off-label it is very rarely used in the USA.  Vaccines are said to help Long Haul Covid, but I've not actually found a scientific study to prove that.


----------



## EastTexFrank

I read a report somewhere a while back which said the Ivermectin had no effect on Covid-19.  

I don't know if that is true or not but I was in the feed store a while back and I asked the owner, who I've known for 20 years, if he was going to get the vaccine shot.  He told me that he wasn't but was going to keep self treating with Ivermectin.  He's never worn a mask and he never caught COVID-19 and as an added bonus, flies don't bother him either.


----------



## Melensdad

EastTexFrank said:


> I read a report somewhere a while back which said the Ivermectin had no effect on Covid-19.
> 
> I don't know if that is true or not but I was in the feed store a while back and I asked the owner, who I've known for 20 years, if he was going to get the vaccine shot.  He told me that he wasn't but was going to keep self treating with Ivermectin.  He's never worn a mask and he never caught COVID-19 and as an added bonus, flies don't bother him either.


Ivermectin is showing great results according to lots of doctors, including at some very high level research & teaching hospitals.  Look up Dr Pierre Kory's testimony to the US Senate.  Plenty of evidence to back his claims.  

In the US the drug is used primarily in topical ointments for on animals so buying it at the local farm supply is not the Ivermectin needed.  Its an anti paracidic with anti inflammatory properties.  Humans want the pill form.

Dr Campbell, a UK based teaching PHD, has several video interviews on YouTube, including a 2 parter with Dr Kory.  But he has probably done about 8 total discussing Ivermectin, starting at a position of a skeptic and now as an advocate.


----------



## Melensdad

USA gives Pfizer shots 3 weeks apart.

UK gives Pfizer shots 3 months apart.  Canada is looking to follow the UK path because they have a massive vaccine shortage.

UK's theory is the 1st shot gives a good level of immunity and protection.  That seemed to work well with the ORIGINAL strain of Covid.  But looks like not working out so great for vatiants.






__





						Zerohedge
					

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero




					www.zerohedge.com
				





UK Study Finds Pfizer Vaccine Doesn't Offer "Full Protection" From Mutant COVID Strains​*As shortages of COVID-19 vaccine supplies force more countries stretch the time between the first and second vaccine doses to try and vaccinate more people, the latest data out of a UK study of vaccination rates has stumbled on a disturbing finding:*_* the study found that people who have had *_*one dose*_* are still at risk from mutated strains of the virus.*_​​The study, published Friday afternoon in London by Imperial College London and published in the journal Science, examined the immune responses of health-care workers following their first dose of the Pfizer jab.​​It found that people who had previously been infected saw significantly enhanced protection against mutant strains of the virus typically referred to as "variants". Those who only received the jab, but weren't previously infected, showed an *immune response that was "less strong after a first dose, potentially leaving them at risk from variants." *The findings show that those who have received the Pfizer jab aren't "fully protected" from COVID-19 variants.​​


> Professor Rosemary Boyton, Professor of Immunology and Respiratory Medicine at Imperial College London, who led the research, said: “Our findings show that people who have had their first dose of vaccine, and who have not previously been infected with SARS-CoV-2, are not fully protected against the circulating variants of concern. This study highlights the importance of getting second doses of the vaccine rolled out to protect the population.”​


Imperial College published the results in full on its website.​​*Meanwhile, another study released Friday came to a similar conclusion, showing that some patients who have received their first dose still wind up in the hospital with COVID symptoms.*​​The news appeared to weigh on US stocks, which tumbled to their lows of the session shortly after the news broke. Analysts claimed the study is a problem for the global growth outlook - which has already taken a hit thanks to to the latest data out of China - as countries like Canada aim to stagger doses by months to try and make the most out of limited supplies.​​

​​According to the latest data released on Friday, 65% of British adults have already received at least one dose, while 3,736,654 people were vaccinated in the past 7 days. More than 25% of adults in the country, meanwhile, have received both doses. 48,748,962 doses of COVID-19 vaccine have now been administered in the UK, while the US just announced that 100M Americans have now been fully vaccinated.​​

​​But the latest study data available suggests that patients who have received only one shot are still vulnerable. Researchers say the findings are reassuring because vaccines are never 100% perfect and failures are expected. But others have said that the most vulnerable patients may be letting their guard down too soon after one vaccine.​​The study analyzed a quarter of all hospital patients in England, Scotland and Wales between early December and early April, and is one of the first to look at the impact of vaccinations on the numbers of people subsequently admitted to hospital.​...​​Meanwhile, Dr. Annemarie Docherty, a study co-author and honorary consultant in critical care, *warned that this is just the latest sign that patients are assuming they're "safe" immediately after being vaccinated, rather than weeks later.*​​


> *"It's entirely possible that elderly people will catch coronavirus again and may die,"* she said.​




FULL STORY AT LINK ABOVE


----------



## Ceee

Pill to treat COVID-19 could be available year's end, Pfizer CEO says
					

Vaccine maker chief tells CNBC that oral drug to fight the coronavirus early on could be available later this year.




					www.cbsnews.com


----------



## Melensdad

Lots of bad stuff happening with Covid in other parts of the world.  New lockdowns in parts of Europe while India, Brazil and Costa Rica have their healthcare systems in collapse.  Israel, UK and US are racing to return to normal.

And the CDC and Fauci have become total jokes.


----------



## Ceee

Melensdad said:


> Lots of bad stuff happening with Covid in other parts of the world.  New lockdowns in parts of Europe while India, Brazil and Costa Rica have their healthcare systems in collapse.  Israel, UK and US are racing to return to normal.
> 
> And the CDC and Fauci have become total jokes.
> 
> 
> View attachment 137132


Did Fauci or the CDC actually say the above (what's in the attachment), or is that just a joke?  Call me gullible because I don't know what to think about that.


----------



## CrakHoBarbie

Melensdad said:


> Lots of bad stuff happening with Covid in other parts of the world.  New lockdowns in parts of Europe while India, Brazil and Costa Rica have their healthcare systems in collapse.  Israel, UK and US are racing to return to normal.
> 
> And the CDC and Fauci have become total jokes.
> 
> 
> View attachment 137132


Thank goodness I'm allowed to do missionary again. Doggy style was really getting be so old hat.


----------



## Melensdad

Ceee said:


> Did Fauci or the CDC actually say the above (what's in the attachment), or is that just a joke?  Call me gullible because I don't know what to think about that.


The attachment is a joke.

But, Dr Fauci actually said people should wear masks while having casual sex with non-exclusive partners.

Consequently people are making fun of him.  

But then, there is actually a lot to make fun of with him.  He seemed genuinely concerned in the early stages but was caught lying and changing the story so frequently that he became a joke all by himself.  I'm not saying he is not a brilliant doctor, but he is a lousy politician.  And sadly, for the American public, he became a politician.

And I people can forgive a doctor who changes their story with new evidence, by admitting that the new science is suggesting different things, but he never did that.  Certainly as this disease unfolded, and still unfolds, we've gotten all sorts of new information.  

We know that 3 layer cotton masks do not work (_actually they may have a positive effect of approximately 1.3% in the reduction of the spread_).  We also know that masks should be COMPLETELY DRIED between use, that they should not be used 2 days in a row, that "surgical masks" have a total lifespan of approximately 8 hours of use, that N95 masks have an approximately lifespan of approximately 40 hours of use but should not be used 2 days in a row.  We know that cotton, linen, denim, etc are totally worthless.  We also know that cloth masks can actually increase people's chances of OTHER respiratory diseases if they are not washed.  *BUT DO WE GET COMMON GUIDANCE FROM THE CDC about any of those things??? *


----------



## Melensdad




----------



## CrakHoBarbie

Melensdad said:


> View attachment 137155


I'm calling BS on this one. Fauci had already approved this months ago......


----------



## Roofgardener

In the UK, the government has approved an experiment. There is going to be an indoor rave with NO social distancing and NO masks. Partygoers will be tested for the virus on arrival and departure to see if there is any infection. 









						Covid: UK clubbers return to Liverpool for trial night
					

Thousands return to the dance floor in Liverpool at a test event with no social distancing or masks.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## Melensdad

Roofgardener said:


> In the UK, the government has approved an experiment. There is going to be an indoor rave with NO social distancing and NO masks. Partygoers will be tested for the virus on arrival and departure to see if there is any infection.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Covid: UK clubbers return to Liverpool for trial night
> 
> 
> Thousands return to the dance floor in Liverpool at a test event with no social distancing or masks.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.co.uk


They did a similar test in Barcelona recently.  No transmission.  But they only allowed non-infected people into the venue, so it is only logical that the "after" test would also come back negative.


----------



## Roofgardener

Melensdad said:


> They did a similar test in Barcelona recently.  No transmission.  But they only allowed non-infected people into the venue, so it is only logical that the "after" test would also come back negative.


Actually, now you mention it, I think the Liverpool test was conducted in a similar way ? Partygoers had to produce a 'negative' test certificate before they could enter ?


----------



## Melensdad

Roofgardener said:


> Actually, now you mention it, I think the Liverpool test was conducted in a similar way ? Partygoers had to produce a 'negative' test certificate before they could enter ?


No clue about Liverpool

But Barcelona was an actual medical study.

5000 people.  All tested negative the day of the event.  All tested within 2 weeks after the event.  A very small number had positive test results and all but a couple of those could be "traced" to other causes.  The 2 or 3 that could not be traced to other causes were presumed to be infected outside of the event.

So basically the study, which seemed pretty stupid, said proven (via test) healthy people don't spread disease.


----------



## pirate_girl

DeWine just announced that nursing home employees who've been vaccinated, no longer have to be tested for covid.
Whoopie doozie.








						Fully vaccinated Ohio nursing home employees no longer required to be tested for COVID-19, Gov. Mike DeWine announces
					

Ohio Governor Mike DeWine announced on Monday that nursing home employees who are fully vaccinated will no longer be required to be tested for COVID-19.




					www.wkyc.com


----------



## Roofgardener

pirate_girl said:


> DeWine just announced that nursing home employees who've been vaccinated, no longer have to be tested for covid.
> Whoopie doozie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fully vaccinated Ohio nursing home employees no longer required to be tested for COVID-19, Gov. Mike DeWine announces
> 
> 
> Ohio Governor Mike DeWine announced on Monday that nursing home employees who are fully vaccinated will no longer be required to be tested for COVID-19.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wkyc.com


That might just be pragmatism ? Even if somebody who is inoculated DOES get re-infected, the standard tests might not detect the infection ?


----------



## Roofgardener

Melensdad said:


> No clue about Liverpool
> 
> But Barcelona was an actual medical study.
> 
> 5000 people.  All tested negative the day of the event.  All tested within 2 weeks after the event.  A very small number had positive test results and all but a couple of those could be "traced" to other causes.  The 2 or 3 that could not be traced to other causes were presumed to be infected outside of the event.
> 
> So basically the study, which seemed pretty stupid, said proven (via test) healthy people don't spread disease.


That's actually quite an important result ? It implies - for example - that inoculated people might not spread the disease ?


----------



## Ceee

Coronavirus Vaccine Updates: FDA expected to authorize Pfizer vaccine for ages 12-15 this week
					

The FDA's anticipated decision to authorize the Pfizer vaccine for ages 12-15 would allow middle school students and all high school students to get the shots.




					abc7ny.com
				




NEW YORK (WABC) -- The FDA could expand COVID vaccines for 12-to-15-year-olds as early as this week.

Health experts say the agency is expected to authorize Pfizer's drug for that age group any day now.


The decision would allow middle school students and all high school students to get the shots.

Pfizer says clinical trials showed the vaccine was 100% effective for 12-to-15 year-olds.

If authorized, that age group may start receiving the Pfizer vaccine later this month.


----------



## Melensdad

Roofgardener said:


> That's actually quite an important result ? It implies - for example - that inoculated people might not spread the disease ?


These were NOT necessarily inoculated.

Spain is doing a piss poor job of vaccinating their citizens.  

They took a rapid test.  Tested negative.  Went inside.  Partied.  Departed.  So they were NEGATIVE when they went inside.  The test, to my untrained eye, was essentially pointless.  It simply showed that, if you want to really increase prices to cover the cost of rapid testing all your potential customers, you can have a concert if they all test negative.


----------



## pirate_girl

Pfizer Will File For Full FDA Approval By End Of May, Expects $26 Billion In Vaccine Revenue
					

Full FDA approval would allow the vaccine to be administered after the Covid-19 pandemic ends.




					www.forbes.com
				




Pfizer and BioNTech, the manufacturers of one of the three authorized Covid-19 vaccines in the U.S., plan to file for full approval from the Food and Drug Administration by the end of May as they expect the vaccine to generate about $26 billion in revenue this year.


----------



## Roofgardener

Melensdad said:


> These were NOT necessarily inoculated.
> 
> Spain is doing a piss poor job of vaccinating their citizens.
> 
> They took a rapid test.  Tested negative.  Went inside.  Partied.  Departed.  So they were NEGATIVE when they went inside.  The test, to my untrained eye, was essentially pointless.  It simply showed that, if you want to really increase prices to cover the cost of rapid testing all your potential customers, you can have a concert if they all test negative.


Hmm.. you're right. So what WAS the point of it all ?


----------



## Melensdad

Roofgardener said:


> So what WAS the point of it all ?



Wealthy people will pay extra to go party???


----------



## Ceee

What will the scammers come up with next .









						Scam alert: Why posting your COVID vaccine card may lead to fraud
					

A fraud expert says sharing your COVID-19 vaccination card online and through social media could become a breeding ground for fraud.




					fox8.com


----------



## Melensdad

More information on Ivermectin

Sadly it pretty much takes a court order from a judge to force hospitals to administer Ivermectin in the US


----------



## Melensdad




----------



## pirate_girl

I'm not a big Fauci fan, but this goes without saying.



			Americans could opt to wear masks during flu season, Fauci says
		


Widespread mask wearing in the US has been credited for a huge drop in seasonal flu deaths – just one child is reported to have died from the flu in the most recent flu season, compared to 195 in the autumn and winter of 2019-2020.


----------



## Melensdad

Quite a few stories coming out regarding Ivermectin.  

USA, UK and Canada seem to be shunning this cheap drug, possibly due to political pressure from the drug companies that are making billions on the vaccines?  

Still I'm seeing a lot more play on Ivermectin coming from 2nd world nations, some select European nations, South Africa, etc.  And now they are citing an American group and its data.

Just one of many articles, all of which are pretty similar:  https://health.economictimes.indiat...ctin-use-can-end-pandemic-scientists/82479538

​Immediate global ivermectin use can end pandemic: Scientists​The common antiparasitic ivermectin is being touted as a miracle cure for Covid-19 by doctors and campaigners the world over.​




Washington: A peer-reviewed research has claimed that global ivermectin use can end Covid-19 pandemic, as the medicine significantly reduces the risk of contracting the deadly respiratory disease when used regularly.​​The common antiparasitic ivermectin is being touted as a miracle cure for Covid-19 by doctors and campaigners the world over.​​Peer reviewed by medical experts that included three US government senior scientists and published in the American Journal of Therapeutics, the research is the most comprehensive review of the available data taken from clinical, in vitro, animal, and real-world studies.​​Led by the Front Line Covid-19 Critical Care Alliance (FLCCC), a group of medical and scientific experts reviewed published peer-reviewed studies, manuscripts, expert meta-analyses, and epidemiological analyses of regions with ivermectin distribution efforts all showing that ivermectin is effective prophylaxis and treatment for Covid-19.​​"We did the work that the medical authorities failed to do, we conducted the most comprehensive review of the available data on ivermectin," said Pierre Kory, MD, president and chief medical officer of the FLCCC.​​"We applied the gold standard to qualify the data reviewed before concluding that ivermectin can end this pandemic."​​A focus of the manuscript was on the 27 controlled trials available in January 2021, 15 of which were randomised controlled trials (RCT's).​​Consistent with numerous meta-analyses of ivermectin RCT's since published by expert panels from the UK, Italy, Spain and Japan, they found large, statistically significant reduction in mortality, time to recovery and viral clearance in Covid-19 patients treated with ivermectin.​​"Our latest research shows, once again, that when the totality of the evidence is examined, there is no doubt that ivermectin is highly effective as a safe prophylaxis and treatment for Covid-19," said Paul E. Marik, founding member of the FLCCC and Chief, Pulmonary and Critical Care Medicine at Eastern Virginia Medical School.​​*Many regions around the world now recognise that ivermectin is a powerful prophylaxis and treatment for Covid-19.*​​South Africa, Zimbabwe, Slovakia, Czech Republic, Mexico, and India have approved the drug for use by medical professionals.​​The results as seen in this latest study demonstrate that the ivermectin distribution campaigns repeatedly led to* "rapid population-wide decreases in morbidity and mortality."*​​"We are calling on regional public health authorities and medical professionals around the world to demand that ivermectin be included in their standard of care right away so we can end this pandemic once and for all," Marik noted.​


----------



## Melensdad

And a follow up to above one of the states in India is planning to issue Ivermectin to all its citizens.  This could effectively become the largest case study in the world and may be able to prove, or disprove the ability of Ivermectin to control Covid.









						Goa To Start Using Drug Shunned By US Regulator For Covid Treatment
					

Goa has given the nod for the use of an anti-parasitic drug as preventive treatment for all adults against COVID-19. The drug, Ivermectin, has been disapproved of by the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA).




					www.ndtv.com
				




Goa To Start Using Drug Shunned By US Regulator For Covid Treatment​While Ivermectin does not prevent infection, it reduces the severity of the illness, Goa Public Health Minister Vishwajit P Rane said today.​Harish Pullanoor​

Goa Public Health Minister Vishwajit Rane said taking Ivermectin must not make one complacent.​​*New Delhi: *​Goa has given the nod for the use of an anti-parasitic drug as preventive treatment for all adults against COVID-19. The drug, Ivermectin, has been disapproved of by the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA). While it does not prevent infection, it reduces the severity of the illness, Goa Public Health Minister Vishwajit P Rane said today.​​The treatment will be for those above 18 years of age, the minister said in a Facebook post.​​"In this, patients will be treated with Ivermectin 12mg for a period of five days. Expert panels from the UK, Italy, Spain and Japan, found a large, statistically significant reduction in mortality, time to recovery, and viral clearance in COVID-19 patients treated with Ivermectin," Mr Rane said in his post.​​"At the same time one should not have a false sense of security and complacency but strictly take all the precautionary measures and follow laid SOPs," he said.​​The tablet will be made available at all district, sub-district, public health care centres, and other facilities, so that people begin treatment immediately, irrespective of any symptoms or anything, the minister said.​​Goa on Monday recorded 2,804 new cases of coronavirus, taking its overall figure to 1,21,650, while 50 more fatalities pushed the total number of Covid-related deaths in the state to 1,729, PTI reported.​​Ivermectin is approved at very specific doses for some parasitic worms but is not an anti-viral, according to the US FDA which has said that when taken in large doses, it is dangerous and can cause serious harm.​​"Ivermectin tablets are approved by the FDA to treat people with intestinal strongyloidiasis and onchocerciasis, two conditions caused by parasitic worms. In addition, some topical (on the skin) forms of ivermectin are approved to treat external parasites like head lice and for skin conditions such as rosacea," the FDA has said.​


----------



## CrakHoBarbie

Melensdad said:


> Quite a few stories coming out regarding Ivermectin.
> 
> USA, UK and Canada seem to be shunning this cheap drug, possibly due to political pressure from the drug companies that are making billions on the vaccines?
> 
> Still I'm seeing a lot more play on Ivermectin coming from 2nd world nations, some select European nations, South Africa, etc.  And now they are citing an American group and its data.
> 
> Just one of many articles, all of which are pretty similar:  https://health.economictimes.indiat...ctin-use-can-end-pandemic-scientists/82479538
> 
> ​​Immediate global ivermectin use can end pandemic: Scientists​​The common antiparasitic ivermectin is being touted as a miracle cure for Covid-19 by doctors and campaigners the world over.​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Washington: A peer-reviewed research has claimed that global ivermectin use can end Covid-19 pandemic, as the medicine significantly reduces the risk of contracting the deadly respiratory disease when used regularly.​​The common antiparasitic ivermectin is being touted as a miracle cure for Covid-19 by doctors and campaigners the world over.​​Peer reviewed by medical experts that included three US government senior scientists and published in the American Journal of Therapeutics, the research is the most comprehensive review of the available data taken from clinical, in vitro, animal, and real-world studies.​​Led by the Front Line Covid-19 Critical Care Alliance (FLCCC), a group of medical and scientific experts reviewed published peer-reviewed studies, manuscripts, expert meta-analyses, and epidemiological analyses of regions with ivermectin distribution efforts all showing that ivermectin is effective prophylaxis and treatment for Covid-19.​​"We did the work that the medical authorities failed to do, we conducted the most comprehensive review of the available data on ivermectin," said Pierre Kory, MD, president and chief medical officer of the FLCCC.​​"We applied the gold standard to qualify the data reviewed before concluding that ivermectin can end this pandemic."​​A focus of the manuscript was on the 27 controlled trials available in January 2021, 15 of which were randomised controlled trials (RCT's).​​Consistent with numerous meta-analyses of ivermectin RCT's since published by expert panels from the UK, Italy, Spain and Japan, they found large, statistically significant reduction in mortality, time to recovery and viral clearance in Covid-19 patients treated with ivermectin.​​"Our latest research shows, once again, that when the totality of the evidence is examined, there is no doubt that ivermectin is highly effective as a safe prophylaxis and treatment for Covid-19," said Paul E. Marik, founding member of the FLCCC and Chief, Pulmonary and Critical Care Medicine at Eastern Virginia Medical School.​​*Many regions around the world now recognise that ivermectin is a powerful prophylaxis and treatment for Covid-19.*​​South Africa, Zimbabwe, Slovakia, Czech Republic, Mexico, and India have approved the drug for use by medical professionals.​​The results as seen in this latest study demonstrate that the ivermectin distribution campaigns repeatedly led to* "rapid population-wide decreases in morbidity and mortality."*​​"We are calling on regional public health authorities and medical professionals around the world to demand that ivermectin be included in their standard of care right away so we can end this pandemic once and for all," Marik noted.​


It looks like the empirical evidence confirming ivermectin efficacy is growing.      https://journals.lww.com/americanth...he_emerging_evidence_demonstrating_the.4.aspx


----------



## Roofgardener

Hmm.. is this hydroxychloroquine all over again ? 

The UK British Medical Journal is sceptical. https://www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n747


----------



## Melensdad

Roofgardener said:


> Hmm.. is this hydroxychloroquine all over again ?
> 
> The UK British Medical Journal is sceptical. https://www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n747


No.  HCQ was tried, tested and found to be mostly hype.  It was found to HELP patients if treated early in low doses, it would found to be FATAL if used later in the stage of the disease and in higher doses.  Generally it was found to be, overall, ineffective.

Ivermectin seems to be actually working, and meta data is showing it works.  It is also a dirt cheap generic that removes the profit motive.  Thus opposed by the drug companies that stand to make tens of billions of dollars on vaccines and boosters.

But if you don't believe use, just scroll through this thread, there is actual evidence posted.
















And now India is going to be using Ivermectin, not just use it, but actually dispense it widely.






There is a growing list of nations that, due to long wait times to get sufficient vaccines, are turning to Ivermectin.

FWIW, Dr John Campbell is a Phd and teaches nursing in the UK, he has authored several books, and has been running daily Covid updates for over a year.


----------



## Melensdad

And something we all knew.  Well everyone who didn’t live in Chicago, NYC and other liberal cities that required (some still require) masks outside.










						CDC grossly exaggerating outdoor transmission rate: COVID-19 experts
					

At issue is the research cited by the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in touting its outdoor transmission statistic, which put the figure at a murky and allegedly too high “less …




					nypost.com
				





CDC grossly exaggerating outdoor transmission rate: COVID-19 experts​By Kate Sheehy
The CDC is greatly exaggerating the risk of COVID-19 transmission outdoors, claiming there is a roughly 10 percent chance — when in reality the figure is less than 1 percent, a report said Tuesday.

The higher federal figure “seems to be a huge exaggeration,” Dr. Muge Cevik, a top infectious disease doctor at the University of St. Andrews in Scotland, told the New York Times.

Dr. Aaron Richterman of the University of Pennsylvania added, “I’m sure it’s possible for transmission to occur outdoors in the right circumstances.

“But if we had to put a number on it, I would say much less than 1 percent.”

“Saying that less than 10 percent of Covid transmission occurs outdoors is akin to saying that sharks attack fewer than 20,000 swimmers a year. (The actual worldwide number is around 150.) It’s both true and deceiving,” The Times wrote.


----------



## pirate_girl

Million Dollar Decision: Gov. Mike DeWine announces removal of Ohio's COVID-19 health orders on June 2, plus lucrative vaccine incentives
					

DeWine announced that the state will be holding a weekly lottery offering prizes of up to $1 million for adults who have received at least one dose of the vaccine.




					www.wtol.com


----------



## pirate_girl




----------



## Melensdad

I've seen this reported on a few different websites today.









						CDC recommends fully vaccinated people no longer have to wear mask indoors or outdoors
					

The mask recommends come with few exceptions including in hospitals, planes and prisons.




					justthenews.com
				





CDC recommends fully vaccinated people no longer have to wear mask indoors or outdoors​The mask recommends come with few exceptions including in hospitals, planes and prisons.​The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention announced Thursday that fully vaccinated people no longer have to wear a COVID mask indoors or outdoors, with a few exceptions. 

The changes comes after roughly a year of people in the U.S. – and around the world – wearing a mask to prevent the spread of the virus, which has killed over 3.3 million people worldwide since first detected and reported out of China in late-2019, early-2020.

The CDC changes comes amid a worldwide vaccination program in which roughly 35 percent of the U.S. population has been fully vaccinated.

*"Anyone who is fully vaccinated can participate in indoor and outdoor activities, no mater how large or small, without a mask," CDC Director Rochelle Walensky said in announcing the changes. "This an exciting and powerful moment."*

The agency said in announcing the changes that *250 million Americans* have now been vaccinated. 

_The exceptions will be in such places as hospitals, planes and prisons._


----------



## Melensdad

News from Mexico.  Seems to match what we are hearing from India.

Both are using Ivermectin to treat Covid.










						Uso de Ivermectina redujo hasta en 76% la probabilidad de síntomas graves y hospitalizaciones en CDMX
					

La secretaria Oliva López agregó que no se identificaron efectos secundarios en el uso de ese medicamento.




					www.proceso.com.mx
				




Use of Ivermectin reduced the probability of severe symptoms and hospitalizations in CDMX by up to 76%​By Sara Pantoja

MEXICO CITY (apro).- The use of Ivermectin in people with covid-19 who took treatment at home reduced by up to 76% the probability of having severe symptoms and going to the hospital, according to the analysis of public policy applied by the government of Mexico City since the end of December 2020.

The Secretary of Health, Oliva López, explained that during the study no negative effects were detected on the health of patients and that the medicine will continue to be delivered to people who go to macro kiosks and health centers to be tested quickly and its results are positive.* He also called on the capital's not to self-medicate, since this medicine must be consumed under medical supervision.*

In videoconference, José Antonio Peña Merino, general director of the Digital Agency for Public Innovation (ADIP), explained that in the research 220,000 observations were made among people who tested positive for covid-19 and received the health kit with Ivermectin 6mg, in addition to acetylsalicylic acid 100mg, and those who did not receive it, but had similar health characteristics and comorbidities.

He detailed that the "quasi-experimental" analysis was made from administrative data of hospitalizations and monitoring by Locatel, comparing recipients of the medical kit against non-recipients.

*"The main result is that the range of the effect of the medical kit with ivermectin is a reduction of between 52% and 76% in the probability of being hospitalized, compared to identical people (symptoms, age, sex, comorbidities) without a kit, significant to 99%," he said.*

Peña Merino commented that the highest percentage is related to infected people who had the follow-up with doctors from the Locatel service, who made constant calls to see the development of the symptoms. That element, he added, had an additional effect, since it represented a 30% lower probability of being hospitalized.

RELATED NEWS​
WHO recommends not using ivermectin in patients with covid-19
Ivermectin and azithromycin are not suitable for the treatment of covid-19: specialists
CDMX Health defends the use of Ivermectin for covid-19 patients
"Here the really important thing is to validate that the public policy that Mexico City implemented massively, in this case the medical kit, was an important factor in reducing hospital admissions and, of course, possible deaths," he added.

Secretary Oliva López added that no side effects were identified in the use of that medicine, adding: "What we do identify quite forcefully is the reduction in terms of probability of being hospitalized, that is, of developing a serious condition. That's the most important effect."

The official added that it is already a "standardized, massive" treatment in Mexico City where more than 135,000 medical kits have been delivered. Then, he reiterated: "We see and it is proven with this research that it has a positive effect to reduce the risk of serious covid-19 disease."


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Interesting video:  https://gab.com/Artraven/posts/106228189030226945


----------



## Melensdad

Ivermectin was prescribed in 3 states in India and now that is being stopped.  Why?  Is it ineffective or is it political pressure from WHO?


----------



## CrakHoBarbie

Melensdad said:


> Ivermectin was prescribed in 3 states in India and now that is being stopped.  Why?  Is it ineffective or is it political pressure from WHO?


On the contrary. Some places in India are handing out tablets to anyone over two years old. Where did you hear its distribution was being stopped?                         https://www.reuters.com/world/india...fight-covid-19-against-who-advice-2021-05-13/


----------



## Melensdad

CrakHoBarbie said:


> On the contrary. Some places in India are handing out tablets to anyone over two years old. Where did you hear its distribution was being stopped?                         https://www.reuters.com/world/india...fight-covid-19-against-who-advice-2021-05-13/


YES, latest news, as of yesterday/today, at least SOME areas are are stopping.  It appears some are still continuing.  I've got mixed news from Goa, which was the first to start (8 or 9 days ago)


----------



## Melensdad

Just an update on India, I have close ties to India and I'm hearing that they are backing down from issuing Ivermectin. 

Also, the most recent news story I can find from Goa, which is where I have most insight, is that they have not actually given out any doses yet but they plan to being within the next 48 hours.

So this is becoming more interesting to watch as we may see something happen that is political?  Or we may see India turn into a giant medical experiment that proves the vaccine crowd is too focused on vaccinations and not focused enough on TREATMENT.  I personally favor both approaches.  In any case, here is a published news source from India saying that they actually have not begun distribution of Ivermectin yet but will be doing it very soon.  I hope it works very well for them. 









						Goa govt to give Ivermectin tablets to people in next 2 days
					

Goa govt to give Ivermectin tablets to people in next 2 days




					www.republicworld.com
				




Article is dated May 18, quote in the article is from May 17, realize that India is approximately 12 hours ahead of much of our membership here.  So theoretically they could be distributing this as I type.

*The Goa government will start the distribution of Ivermectin tablets as a preventive treatment against COVID-19 in the next 48 hours, state Health Minister Vishwajit Rane said on Monday.*​​*The state government had last week announced Ivermectin, an orally administered drug used to treat parasitic infections, will be given to all adults irrespective of their coronavirus status as a preventive treatment.*​​*"We shall be distributing Ivermectin tablets in the state of Goa in the next 48 hours in association with our WCD (Women and Child Development) department and Anganwadi workers. Our Anganwadi workers will be distributing the same in households," Rane said in a tweet.*​


----------



## CrakHoBarbie

Melensdad said:


> YES, latest news, as of yesterday/today, at least SOME areas are are stopping.  It appears some are still continuing.  I've got mixed news from Goa, which was the first to start (8 or 9 days ago)


I couldn't find any reports of ivermectin usage being stopped. Only reports of hydroxychloroquine and antibiotics (like azithromycin) being discontinued.                                     https://www.downtoearth.org.in/news/health/ivermectin-for-covid-19-is-india-overusing-76963


----------



## Melensdad

CrakHoBarbie said:


> I couldn't find any reports of ivermectin usage being stopped. Only reports of hydroxychloroquine and antibiotics (like azithromycin) being discontinued.                                     https://www.downtoearth.org.in/news/health/ivermectin-for-covid-19-is-india-overusing-76963


As stated, I'm getting mixed information from the ground inside India.  Please also see my latest post saying that they have not even started yet and starting may be imminent.


LINK to post:  https://www.forumsforums.com/thread...ial-says-no-need-to-worry.85318/post-20749338


----------



## Melensdad

And now you can get a vaccine and join the lifestyles of the rich and famous, if you live in Ohio.









						Registration for Ohio’s ‘vax-a-million’ vaccine lottery begins
					

While Ohioans began registering Tuesday morning for a chance to win millions by getting the COVID-19 vaccine, state lawmakers continued to criticize the idea, with one saying Gov. Mike DeWine should end it immediately.




					www.washingtonexaminer.com
				




Registration for Ohio’s ‘vax-a-million’ vaccine lottery begins​by J.D. Davidson, The Center Square ​ | May 19, 2021 07:00 PM​While Ohioans began registering Tuesday morning for a chance to win millions by getting the COVID-19 vaccine, state lawmakers continued to criticize the idea, with one saying Gov. Mike DeWine should end it immediately.​​Those vaccinated started registering on a website to be one of five winners of a $1 million or five full, four-year college scholarship in what the Ohio Department of Health is calling an innovative public outreach campaign.​​DeWine’s "Vax-a-Million" lottery incentives use unspent federal COVID-19 relief money to fund the prizes, and they come at a time when the state plans to end nearly all pandemic health restrictions June 2.​​“For a year, Ohioans have made sacrifices to save lives and keep our state moving forward. What you have done has really worked! And now, we have a powerful weapon that is almost 100 percent effective in beating the virus," DeWine said in his remarks. "Simply put, the vaccine is stronger and better than medical experts ever imagined. And now, everyone 12 and over can use it to protect themselves – to put an invisible shield of protection around themselves. Everyone can now control their own health – their own destiny.”​​Eligibility for the lotteries is for those who have yet to receive a dose of the vaccine but do so during the period of time they are in place and those who have completed the vaccine protocols. The Ohio Department of Health verifies the vaccine information of winners.​​_A winner must be a permanent resident of Ohio, be at least 12 years old and have received at least one dose of a vaccine before the drawing date. A person in jail or prison for a felony conviction is ineligible, along with employees of the lottery commission, department of health and the governor’s office or be related to those employees._​​While DeWine and health department officials see the lotteries as a creative way to encourage more people to get vaccinated, state lawmakers have been critical of the use of taxpayer money.​​Rep. Shane Wilkin, R-Hillsboro, praised DeWine’s decision to end the majority of the pandemic restrictions, but he also said the vaccine lottery unfairly picks winners and losers.​​“As happy as I am to hear the governor’s announcement to lift the restrictions and anticipate him signing House Bill 215, The Business Fairness Act, into law as soon as it is presented to him to protect Ohio’s businesses, I was nothing short of stunned to learn of the vaccine lottery,” Wilkin said. “As a member of the Controlling Board, to use these federal funds in this manner was neither outlined nor explained in any funding request and, without a doubt, was not expected. While the restrictions implemented last summer unfairly hurt Ohio’s small community businesses by picking winners and losers, this lottery is doing the exact same thing. The Governor should reconsider this decision and immediately rescind the program.”​


----------



## CrakHoBarbie

Melensdad said:


> As stated, I'm getting mixed information from the ground inside India.  Please also see my latest post saying that they have not even started yet and starting may be imminent.
> 
> 
> LINK to post:  https://www.forumsforums.com/thread...ial-says-no-need-to-worry.85318/post-20749338


What do you mean by your getting mixed info "from the ground inside India"...... Do you know people in India who've told you this?


----------



## Melensdad

CrakHoBarbie said:


> What do you mean by your getting mixed info "from the ground inside India"...... Do you know people in India who've told you this?


Yes

ivermectin is actually rolling out now in Goa, as of the past 24 hours. 2 other states are doing the same.  

One state has reversed its decision, they will not roll out ivermectin.  A new minister was put into place on May 7, he reversed the policy announced by the prior administration.


----------



## mla2ofus

Melensdad said:


> Yes
> 
> 
> One state has reversed its decision, they will not roll out ivermectin.  A new minister was put into place on May 7, he reversed the policy announced by the prior administration.


  HMMM, sounds like something that happened here!!


----------



## Melensdad

mla2ofus said:


> HMMM, sounds like something that happened here!!


This is an Op-Ed published in an Indian news source.  I don't trust the timeline laid out by the doctor/author either.  But at very least it does give some information on the rollout of Ivermectin.

I will NOTE, for accuracy, on May 10 (_11 days ago_) the state of Goa announced a policy to give Ivermectin to all residents saying they were ordering supplies of Ivermectin.   Then on May 17 (_4 days ago_) the state of Goa announced they would BEGIN to roll out Ivermectin within 48 hours.  So today is May 21, and Goa has begun to distribute Ivermectin to all its citizens but not all have received and started taking the doses. 

Therefore, with that timeline, the explanation given for the miracle of Ivermectin is somewhat bizarre as the cases started dropping BEFORE widespread distribution of Ivermectin. 

There was SOME independent usage of Ivermectin, prescribed 'off label' by local physicians.  So SOME Ivermectin was being used, but nobody will be able to statistically be able to tie it to the drop in cases because it is unclear how much was in use.










						Ivermectin crushes Delhi cases
					

Delhi Cases Drop After Ivermectin Added




					www.thedesertreview.com
				




​Ivermectin crushes Delhi cases​Delhi Cases Drop After Ivermectin Added​​Just three weeks after adding Ivermectin, Delhi now leads India out of the deadly second surge of the COVID pandemic. Cases that had peaked at 28,395 on April 20 plummeted nearly 80% to just 6,430 on May 15. Deaths peaked May 4, and now they are also down 25%.​​*On May 10, the Indian State of Goa adopted an even more ambitious policy of preemptive Ivermectin for all adults in the state. The Chief Minister of Goa is Dr. Pramod Sawant, a progressive 49-year-old physician persuaded by science. In particular, he read Dr. Pierre Kory's  Dr. Tess Lawrie's and Dr. Andrew Hill's robust meta-analyses. As a direct result, Goa has seen a drop in cases from 3,124 the day after the announcement to 1,314 five days later.*​​Meanwhile, three other Indian states have followed Goa's lead in adding Ivermectin: Uttarkhand, Karnataka, and Uttar Pradesh. And, as expected, they have seen a drop in new daily cases as well, with Uttar Pradesh down nearly 75% from a peak of 37,944 just four days after they began following the April 20 AIIMS guidance to just 10,505 on May 16. ​​The tragic story in all this is that the Indian state of Tamil Nadu installed a new leader on May 7, 2021. He suddenly reversed their state's decision to adopt Ivermectin. Readers of my book all know about Peruvian President Sagasti's fateful decision to outlaw Ivermectin. Before taking power, the COVID deaths had dropped 14 fold to almost nothing with Ivermectin use. However after Sagasti was elected, Ivermectin was stopped, and deaths roared back at 13 fold.​​Peru paid the price in skyrocketing cases and 78,000 preventable deaths. Tamil Nadu's Chief Minister, MK Stalin, also chose to forgo Ivermectin. Instead, he ordered tens of thousands of doses of Remdesivir, a drug that sells for 3,000 dollars per dose. So now Tamil Nadu's cases are rocketing as well.​​In contrast to Goa's young physician Chief Minister who had read the latest science on Ivermectin's dramatic effect on reducing COVID death, MK Stalin is a 68-year-old non-physician socialist and atheist who is towing the party line by forbidding Ivermectin.​​Stalin now requests allocations for some 20,000 daily doses of Remdesivir for the Tamil Nadu citizens despite the science that shows no reduction in COVID death with this drug. Remdesivir is an anti-viral agent given late in the disease, only after hospitalization when the Cytokine storm has set in and when anti-virals have lost their effectiveness. ​​At that later stage, steroids, anticoagulants, and oxygen are crucially important. Also, Ivermectin has shown a remarkable ability to reduce inflammation at that stage, with some being liberated from the ventilator with just one dose. ​​*Tamil Nadu cases have continued to rise from April 20 to May 15. During the same time, Delhi's cases eased 78% while Tamil Nadu's cases tripled. *​​Twenty thousand doses of Remdesivir cost 60 million dollars, while 20,000 doses of Ivermectin go for a few hundred. Where is a developing country getting the 60 million dollars a day to purchase the Remdesivir? Why is their leader throwing away a cheap drug, Ivermectin, that has saved lives in other countries?​​Why would Stalin choose money over lives?​​As a humanitarian and a board-certified practicing physician, I know we can influence other Indian states to adopt Ivermectin. With the help of groups like C19, the FLCCC, and the EBMC led by scientists of the caliber of Dr. Peter McCullough, Dr. George Fareed, Dr. Pierre Kory, and Dr. Tess Lawrie, let us all join together to get the word out. Ivermectin must be instituted globally to end not just the carnage in India but for the rest of the world. ​​This is life-saving information that everyone must learn now about how this Nobel Prize-winning drug, Ivermectin, can immediately bring an end to the pandemic. Tamil Nadu citizens have a right to know the truth. It is everyone’s human right to access it, and it is a drug for all of humanity. So help us fight the corruption and censorship. Please share the book, _Ivermectin for the World._​​_https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.01.28.21250706v1_​​_


_​


----------



## Melensdad

The opinion that Covid escaped from a Wuhan lab is no longer considered a "debunked hoax" and is now, according to politifact, unsettled.









						PolitiFact removes 2020 report stating theory that COVID leaked for Wuhan lab 'debunked conspiracy'
					

PolitiFact added an editor's note Monday retracting the "pants on fire" claim.




					justthenews.com
				




PolitiFact removes 2020 report stating theory that COVID leaked for Wuhan lab 'debunked conspiracy'​PolitiFact added an editor's note Monday retracting the "pants on fire" claim.​PolitiFact, a Pulitzer Prize winning fact check group, has retracted a September 2020 report calling a Hong Kong virologist's analysis that COVID-19 originated in a lab a "debunked conspiracy theory."

"The claim is inaccurate and ridiculous," the original fact check reads, according to The Epoch Times. "We rate it Pants on Fire!"

An editor's note Monday said the group has removed but archived the original statement. 

*"*When this fact-check was first published ... PolitiFact’s sources included researchers who asserted the SARS-CoV-2 virus could not have been manipulated. That assertion is now more widely disputed. For that reason, we are removing this fact-check from our database pending a more thorough review. Currently, we consider the claim to be unsupported by evidence and in dispute."

Some of the new evidence is include in a report by Republicans on the Democrat-controlled House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence that point to a possible leak in the Wuhan Institute of Virology in China.


----------



## Melensdad

Obesity is becoming more and more recognized as THE leading co-morbidity In the United States, while total deaths from Covid (_as of the most recent data I see, so probably 96+ hours old_).  Initially the co-morbidity reports were listing diseases like asthma, lung disease, pulmonary hypertension, diabetes, cancer, etc.  The patient's weight was often listed as a minor factor but it seems to me more of a recognized problem, and excess weight may well be a larger risk factor than people realized.

0-17 years old -  287 deaths
18-29 years old - 2163 deaths
20-39 years old - 6299 deaths
40-49 years old - 16,987 deaths
50-65 years old - 87, 915 deaths
65-74 years old - 125,939 deaths
75-84 years old - 156,777 deaths
85+ years old - 171,686 deaths

Oddly the official numbers, at age 50 to go 64, which is a 15 year span of data.  After that it goes to 10 year data.  Prior to that it is a primarily 10 year data.  So I'm not sure why the 50-64 bracket uses a different term.


----------



## pirate_girl

__





						Zerohedge
					

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero




					www.zerohedge.com


----------



## pirate_girl




----------



## pirate_girl




----------



## CrakHoBarbie

pirate_girl said:


> View attachment 137553


You can spread alt-right hyperbole all day. Though it is Increasingly common for Republicans to repeat lies over and over and over again,  it will never make them the truth. Watch the actual conversation between Paul and Fauci below:.                         https://www.axios.com/fauci-rand-pa...rus-eff1bb08-f6c7-4d63-b170-c49e87c2e3dd.html


----------



## CrakHoBarbie

Here's the guy who claimed there was no need to worry:.


----------



## mla2ofus

CrakHoBarbie said:


> You can spread alt-right hyperbole all day. Though it is Increasingly common for Republicans to repeat lies over and over and over again,  it will never make them the truth. Watch the actual conversation between Paul and Fauci below:.                         https://www.axios.com/fauci-rand-pa...rus-eff1bb08-f6c7-4d63-b170-c49e87c2e3dd.html


I don't believe the lying can all be attributed to repubs. Again I bring up adam schiff's 2 1/2 yrs of lying about overwhelming proof of russian collusion not to mention many other dems lying about the same subject. Don't throw stones in a glass house, crakhed!!


----------



## CrakHoBarbie

mla2ofus said:


> I don't believe the lying can all be attributed to repubs. Again I bring up adam schiff's 2 1/2 yrs of lying about overwhelming proof of russian collusion not to mention many other dems lying about the same subject. Don't throw stones in a glass house, crakhed!!


And yet a Republican dominated Senate came to the same conclusions about Donald's Russian collusion. So, who was lying?                                                                     https://thehill.com/opinion/white-h...sia-collusion-and-trump-pardoned-the-colluder


----------



## Melensdad

CrakHoBarbie said:


> And yet a Republican dominated Senate came to the same conclusions about Donald's Russian collusion. So, who was lying?                                                                     https://thehill.com/opinion/white-h...sia-collusion-and-trump-pardoned-the-colluder


FYI, this is NOT the debate area, the topic is Corona.


----------



## CrakHoBarbie

Melensdad said:


> FYI, this is NOT the debate area, the topic is Corona.


Mla2ofus brought up collusion. I responded. What's it to you?


----------



## Melensdad

CrakHoBarbie said:


> Mla2ofus brought up collusion. I responded. What's it to you?


I am the MODERATOR


----------



## CrakHoBarbie

Melensdad said:


> I am the MODERATOR


Well didn't you notice I was responding to another poster?


----------



## mla2ofus

Oooooh, you're wanting it bad aren't you??


----------



## CrakHoBarbie

Melensdad said:


> I am the MODERATOR


Let me put this another way. In most forums on the web, responding to a members post, regardless of what area of the forum one's in, is an acceptable practice. Are you now telling me that this is not allowed here?


----------



## Melensdad

I'm reminding *everyone* that this area of our forum is NOT the Debate forum.  Stay on topic.


----------



## Melensdad

Full story at ZeroHedge, but the Olympic Games were already postponed from 2020 to 2021.  Did the USA just doom the games?  





__





						Zerohedge
					

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero




					www.zerohedge.com
				




US State Dept Issues "Do Not Travel" Advisory For Japan As Calls To Cancel Olympics Intensify​*Update (1340ET): *Shortly after the warnings from Masa-san and news (below) of Japan's push for a amass vaccination program, the US State Department has cranked up the pressure to '11' by issuing a Level 4 Travel Advisory for visitors to Japan.​​*"Do not travel to Japan due to COVID-19."*​​

​​The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) has issued a Level 4 Travel Health Notice for Japan due to COVID-19, *indicating a very high level of COVID-19 in the country.* There are restrictions in place affecting U.S. citizen entry into Japan. Visit the Embassy's COVID-19 page for more information on COVID-19 in Japan.​​Read the country information page.​​*So the question is - will the US send their athletes?*​​*  *  *​​Much to the chagrin of Japan's political leaders, worsening COVID-19 cases are prompting more critics, including SoftBank Chairman Masayoshi Son (one of the country's most high-profile businessmen), to warn that the Olympics should be canceled as hospitals in the country's second-largest city, Osaka, struggle to treat a huge wave of hospitalized patients as Japan becomes the latest Asian nation to fall victim to a new wave of the virus.​​The western Japanese region of Osaka is home to 9 million people, and is suffering the brunt of what Reuters described as Japan's "fourth wave of the pandemic."​​

​​Only half of the region's medical staff are vaccinated, which "underscores the challenge of hosting a major global sports event in two months time," Reuters added.​​"Simply put, this is a collapse of the medical system," said Yuji Tohda, the director of Kindai University Hospital in Osaka.​​*STORY CONTINUES at the link above!*​


----------



## Melensdad

Two things to note, first, despite the concerns about travel to Japan, the US Olympic and ParaOlympic Committee issued a statement that they beleive the US athletes can safely compete in the games under the planned protocols.  

And, secondly we may finally find out if Ivermectin works, in a real clinical trial, thanks to the University of Minnesota.









						Covid-19 News : Controversial ivermectin added to University of Minnesota COVID-19 drug trial
					

Covid-19 News : Controversial ivermectin added to University of Minnesota COVID-19 drug trial -




					fintechzoom.com
				




Covid-19 News : Controversial ivermectin added to University of Minnesota COVID-19 drug trial​​*The University of Minnesota is conducting the nation’s first randomized trial of a controversial anti-parasite drug that has a fervent U.S. following and is being used on the black market against COVID-19 across the globe.*​​*Ivermectin is being added to an ongoing trial in which U researchers hope to find a rare outpatient therapy that can prevent infection with the coronavirus that causes COVID-19 from resulting in hospitalization, long-term complications or death.*​​The research comes amid declining pandemic activity in Minnesota, where vaccinations have helped to cut the daily number of infections by half over the past two weeks and dropped the number of COVID-19 hospitalizations below 400 for the first time since late March. However, U researchers said treatments are needed in parts of the world where vaccine access is lacking and in pockets of the U.S. and Minnesota where refusal to get shots could result in localized outbreaks.​​*“Not everybody has access to the vaccine, whereas these medications are existing generics, already FDA-approved, that are available in most pharmacies around the world,”* said Dr. Carolyn Bramante, a U internal medicine specialist leading the national trial. *“If we find evidence of benefit, [the drugs] could be used immediately anywhere.”*​​U research already has shown possible benefits of metformin, usually used to manage diabetes, in reducing COVID-19 illness and death in women. But now researchers will compare its effectiveness against ivermectin as well as fluvoxamine, an antidepressant. The U started recruiting up to 1,100 patients 30 or older last week to receive one of the drugs, alone or in combination with metformin, or a non-medicating placebo for comparison.​​Effectiveness will primarily be measured by whether patients suffer hypoxia — severe oxygen deficiency.​​Proven medications against COVID-19 have been lacking, especially those that could be used on an outpatient basis to prevent severe illness. The U was among the first to test hydroxychloroquine — an antiviral championed last year by former President Donald Trump and his supporters — only to conclude that it didn’t substantially prevent infection or symptom onset.​​Ivermectin has been advocated by a handful of U.S. medical groups and believers, and by some in India, South Africa and other countries in the absence of vaccine. No large clinical trials have proved effectiveness, though, and manufacturer Merck issued a statement in February discouraging its clinical use against COVID-19. The FDA also discourages use of the drug outside of a study.​​Bramante said ivermectin has anti-inflammatory benefits that need closer study to see if it inhibits the overreaction to infection by the immune system that can cause severe COVID-19 symptoms.​The Rainwater Charitable Foundation that provided $1 million for the U trial had interest in studying ivermectin and sponsored a similar trial in Brazil.​​*“Serious physicians who help care for people with COVID-19 around the world need high-quality data to make decisions,”* said Dr. David Boulware, a U infectious disease expert who is advising the trial and led the hydroxychloroquine studies. He added that he would be “ecstatic” if ivermectin works, but that the results one way or another will be meaningful.​​Minnesota’s 396 COVID-19 hospitalizations on Thursday represented a substantial drop from 699 on April 14 — but the total remains well above the low mark this year of 210 on March 6. The seven-day average of daily infections dropped from 1,409 on May 7 to 679 on Friday.​​Mayo Clinic modeling suggests the latest COVID-19 wave would have been far worse if not for the state’s vaccination efforts. Minnesota reported on Friday that more than 2.8 million people have received at least a first dose and more than 2.4 million have completed the one- or two-dose series.​​The vaccine progress means that 62.7% of Minnesotans 16 and older have received shots, bringing the state closer to its 70% goal by July 1. The state’s data for the first time Friday included shots that Minnesotans received in Iowa. Minnesota already has reported shots administered in Wisconsin and North Dakota, but not in other states unless recipients reported them to local providers or the state’s immunization tracking system.​Vaccination coverage remains spotty, though, raising the potential for localized outbreaks that will benefit from better treatments. The first-dose vaccination rate varies from 72% in Hennepin County to 37% in Benton County.​​Metformin and fluvoxamine were identified by U modeling that started last spring by assuming that this coronavirus would behave like the one that caused the 2003 SARS pandemic. The model appears “seven for seven” in predicting drugs such as remdesivir that work, or drugs such as hydroxychloroquine that don’t work, said David Odde, a U biomedical engineer who led the modeling.​​The modeling made no recommendation on ivermectin, because it was focused on specific moments in the life cycle of the virus that are affected by other drugs, Odde said.​​The U trial is challenging, because clinicians suspect that the drugs work best when provided as early as possible. Recruits must have had positive test results within three days, and the goal is to ship overnight study medications to them so they will start taking them within seven days.​​*Promoters of ivermectin seized on social media posts about perceived weaknesses in the trial, with some fearing that it wouldn’t provide medications quickly enough to prove the actual effectiveness of the drug. Others said they wouldn’t enroll given only a 1 in 3 chance of receiving ivermectin — and a 17% chance of receiving a placebo.*​​Bramante said supporters of ivermectin should want to participate if they suffer infections, because it is the only U.S. randomized clinical trial seeking to prove that it works.​​“Even if they don’t get it,” she said, “they’re really contributing to the science around ivermectin.”​


----------



## Ceee

Ohio's Vax-a-Million lottery boosts Covid-19 vaccination rate, governor says | CNN
					

A chance to win a $1 million prize has helped boost Ohio's Covid-19 vaccination rate by 45%, Gov. Mike DeWine said Wednesday.




					www.cnn.com
				





"A chance to win a $1 million prize has helped boost Ohio's Covid-19 vaccination rate by 45%, Gov. Mike DeWine said Wednesday.
The jump came after Dewine's May 13 announcement of special lotteries offering millions of dollars in giveaways to adults -- and full scholarships to younger Ohioans who get vaccinated."

"The lottery has led to a 94% increase in vaccinations among those aged 16 and 17, DeWine told CNN."

........
quote from another article:
"...since unveiling the plan, which will award $1 million to five vaccinated adults and a full-ride scholarship to Ohio public colleges to five vaccinated teenagers."  

Just my opinion: 
I think DeWine should take that $1 million award and divide it into smaller awards.  That way, there would be more winning people who would be telling their friends about winning and spreading the word faster than just five people.  That might encourage more people to think....Okay, maybe I can win some of that money too and get the vaccine.  

........

I also heard on the news that some of the public schools in my area are having teams of people come to the schools to administer the vaccine to the students/teachers/staff, etc.  That sure makes it easier for the parents.  I see this as a promising step in the right direction.


----------



## Melensdad

Ceee said:


> Just my opinion:
> I think DeWine should take that $1 million award and divide it into smaller awards.  That way, there would be more winning people who would be telling their friends about winning and spreading the word faster than just five people.  That might encourage more people to think....Okay, maybe I can win some of that money too and get the vaccine.
> 
> ........
> 
> I also heard on the news that some of the public schools in my area are having teams of people come to the schools to administer the vaccine to the students/teachers/staff, etc.  That sure makes it easier for the parents.  I see this as a promising step in the right direction.


The idea of breaking up the award into smaller, but still sizable amounts, makes a lot of sense to me.  

As for the public school thing, I am a firm believer in vaccine choice.  As there is no requirement to be vaccinated to go to school, the VAX-teams should not vaccinate children UNLESS they have a signed permission slip from a parent or legal guardian.  Honestly I think it is smart to get the vaccine, but I would not agree with forced vaccination and given that young people statistically don't get very sick from Covid, there is very little compelling reason for people under the age of 45 years old to get vaccinated UNLESS they also have other underlying conditions that elevate their risk factors.


----------



## FrancSevin

Does everyone understand this vaccine did not go through the normal human trials.  WE ARE THE HUMAN TRIAL!!!

Do we know what it does to adolescents?

Do we know what it does to pre-adolescents?

Do we know what it does to childbearing young women?



NOPE!

I get it that we needed to expedite with the vaccine development.  Even, to some degree administration to the public citizens. Particularly those at high risk.

But children are very low risk of contracting, or dying from COVID-19.  They are also low risk vectors or carriers. That is the known science. This vaccine family has synthetic components of which we know very little. 

Our government politicians know even less.   

As for effects on  pregnancy, conception, birth defects,   we know absolutely NOTHING.


----------



## Ceee

Melensdad said:


> the VAX-teams should not vaccinate children UNLESS they have a signed permission slip from a parent or legal guardian.


They're not going to give the vaccine without parental permission.  I don't think giving a vaccine to an underage child without parental permission is even legal.
That's one of the reasons I said..."makes it easier for the parents," because they'll have to be there with their child.


----------



## Ceee

FrancSevin said:


> But children are very low risk of contracting, or dying from COVID-19. They are also low risk vectors or carriers.


Your post seems kind of angry, so I'm a little hesitant to reply.
I believe it's up to the parent of the child to decide whether or not their child gets the vaccine.  Some parents may believe that "low risk" without the vaccine is okay.  Other parents may choose the extra protection that _they believe the vaccine provides _ and gives their child a little lower risk than not being vaccinated.


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## FrancSevin

Ceee said:


> Your post seems kind of angry, so I'm a little hesitant to reply.
> I believe it's up to the parent of the child to decide whether or not their child gets the vaccine.  Some parents may believe that "low risk" without the vaccine is okay.  Other parents may choose the extra protection that _they believe the vaccine provides _ and gives their child a little lower risk than not being vaccinated.


Go ahead and reply.  We both have respect for each other.  You certainly have earned mine.

I am angry because at the end of the story, the parents will not be considered in the forced vaccination of our children.

The argument isn't whether to vaccinate but whether it will be mandatory.

My other  issue is the dangerous haste presented by the "Experts" who were either elected, or chosen by, the elected.  Science and caution suggest we be a bit more inquisitive about what our government tells us we MUST do. 

Children under the age of 12 have a one in a thousand chance of contracting and dying by the Covid-19 bug.  No more than the common flu.

I had Covid over a year ago. Yet I am told I must have the vaccine to get on a plane.  Seriously???
I cannot leave the USA and comeback without it either.  Really?

Come on, aren't you just a little bit upset about the fear mongering and your loss of personal freedom?


----------



## CrakHoBarbie

FrancSevin said:


> Go ahead and reply.  We both have respect for each other.  You certainly have earned mine.
> 
> I am angry because at the end of the story, the parents will not be considered in the forced vaccination of our children.
> 
> The argument isn't whether to vaccinate but whether it will be mandatory.
> 
> My other  issue is the dangerous haste presented by the "Experts" who were either elected, or chosen by, the elected.  Science and caution suggest we be a bit more inquisitive about what our government tells us we MUST do.
> 
> Children under the age of 12 have a one in a thousand chance of contracting and dying by the Covid-19 bug.  No more than the common flu.
> 
> I had Covid over a year ago. Yet I am told I must have the vaccine to get on a plane.  Seriously???
> I cannot leave the USA and comeback without it either.  Really?
> 
> Come on, aren't you just a little bit upset about the fear mongering and your loss of personal freedom?


Before the pandemic our kids had to be Inoculated for Chicken pox, measles, polio, etc. Just to enter public school. International travelers must be Inoculated for different diseases depending on where they're going just to get on the plane. Is it that the covid vaccine did not go through the normal test period that you have issues?


----------



## FrancSevin

CrakHoBarbie said:


> Before the pandemic our kids had to be Inoculated for Chicken pox, measles, polio, etc. Just to enter public school. International travelers must be Inoculated for different diseases depending on where they're going just to get on the plane. Is it that the covid vaccine did not go through the normal test period that you have issues?


Yes.

All of those were "tested" before the kids got them.

Also, if you didn't wan the vaccine you could deny it  without penalties .

I was a kid when polio scared the crap out of everyone. But when the vaccines came, common sense prevailed.

Again, you show a talent for argument and pissing people off, but no talent for comprehension.


----------



## CrakHoBarbie

FrancSevin said:


> Also, if you didn't wan the vaccine you could deny it  without penalties .
> 
> .
> 
> Again, you show a talent for argument and pissing people off, but no talent for comprehension.


Deny without penalty? Children are required to be Inoculated before they can register for public school. The penalty being you can't go to public school without being inoculated. So, who's having issues with comprehension?


----------



## Melensdad

CrakHoBarbie said:


> Deny without penalty? Children are required to be Inoculated before they can register for public school. The penalty being you can't go to public school without being inoculated. So, who's having issues with comprehension?


Vaccinations, and exemptions for those vaccinations, are STATE regulations. There is no FEDERAL mandate  

Some states have very rigid policies regarding vaccinations while other states offer multiple ways to choose to be unvaccinated.   It is not as cut and dry as you imply.


----------



## FrancSevin

CrakHoBarbie said:


> Deny without penalty? Children are required to be Inoculated before they can register for public school. The penalty being you can't go to public school without being inoculated. So, who's having issues with comprehension?


Wrong.  You can deny and still have your child attend school. There are exemptions. And there are options. 

Also, of what I spoke was that "required" vaccinations are with time tested vaccines. Not experimental ones.  You are referring to vaccines against diseases from which children enjoy a medical benefit. COVID vaccine for children has no proven medical benefit.

Once again you show ignorance and/or lack of comprehension.


----------



## FrancSevin

What I don't understand is the hypocrisy of the left demanding COVID vaccinations.  What happened to "My Body, My Choice?"


----------



## CrakHoBarbie

FrancSevin said:


> Wrong.  You can deny and still have your child attend school. There are exemptions. And there are options.
> 
> Also, of what I spoke was that "required" vaccinations are with time tested vaccines. Not experimental ones.  You are referring to vaccines against diseases from which children enjoy a medical benefit. COVID vaccine for children has no proven medical benefit.
> 
> Once again you show ignorance and/or lack of comprehension.


In California parents who do not want to vaccinate their children attending school have three options: obtain a medical exemption to vaccinations, enroll in homeschooling or independent study without classroom instruction, or have their children evaluated and enrolled in special education services.  Franc, you appear to be under the misconception that I'm not wary of the covid vaccine.... Iam..I worry about the reports of blood clotting and adverse effects on those with compromised immune systems.. And I don't think we need to worry about it becoming a requirement by federal mandate. The litigation alone that would follow such a mandate would hobble our court systems for decades. And lastly,  I think we need to leave it up to parents on whether or not to get their kids Inoculated for covid.


----------



## Ceee

Ceee said:


> They're not going to give the vaccine without parental permission.  I don't think giving a vaccine to an underage child without parental permission is even legal.
> That's one of the reasons I said..."makes it easier for the parents," because they'll have to be there with their child.


I had to check to make sure what I said was correct.  









						COVID-19 vaccine clinics scheduled at East Texas school campuses this week
					

The mobile clinics are open to anyone above the age of 12, any employee within the listed school district, and any citizen or community member who travels to the vaccine clinic location.




					www.kltv.com
				




"Anyone under the age of 18 must be accompanied by their parent or guardian when coming to any of our NET Health COVID vaccination clinics."


----------



## pirate_girl

Bye bye covid map.









						Ohio’s COVID map is no more
					

The color-coded system was used to indicate the risk to the public based on the spread and potential exposure to the virus but McCloud said it has served its purpose.




					www.13abc.com
				




TOLEDO, Ohio (WTVG) - The Ohio Department of Health will no longer update Ohio’s Public Health Advisory System, Health Director Stephanie McCloud announced Thursday.

The map provided a county-level view at the coronavirus outlook throughout the state. The color-coded system was used to indicate the risk to the public based on the spread and potential exposure to the virus but McCloud said it has served its purpose.


----------



## FrancSevin

pirate_girl said:


> Bye bye covid map.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ohio’s COVID map is no more
> 
> 
> The color-coded system was used to indicate the risk to the public based on the spread and potential exposure to the virus but McCloud said it has served its purpose.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.13abc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TOLEDO, Ohio (WTVG) - The Ohio Department of Health will no longer update Ohio’s Public Health Advisory System, Health Director Stephanie McCloud announced Thursday.
> 
> The map provided a county-level view at the coronavirus outlook throughout the state. The color-coded system was used to indicate the risk to the public based on the spread and potential exposure to the virus but McCloud said it has served its purpose.


Perhaps we are starting to see the end of this thing. Partly because it has run it's course and in part because the politicians  have done as much damage as the people would allow.


----------



## FrancSevin

CrakHoBarbie said:


> In California parents who do not want to vaccinate their children attending school have three options: obtain a medical exemption to vaccinations, enroll in homeschooling or independent study without classroom instruction, or have their children evaluated and enrolled in special education services.  Franc, you appear to be under the misconception that I'm not wary of the covid vaccine.... Iam..I worry about the reports of blood clotting and adverse effects on those with compromised immune systems.. And I don't think we need to worry about it becoming a requirement by federal mandate. The litigation alone that would follow such a mandate would hobble our court systems for decades. And lastly,  I think we need to leave it up to parents on whether or not to get their kids Inoculated for covid.


So when the current administration floated the mandatory balloon, you weren't listening?
There was talk of having to carry paper document proof of vaccination.
Or did you conveniently forget?


----------



## CrakHoBarbie

FrancSevin said:


> So when the current administration floated the mandatory balloon, you weren't listening?
> There was talk of having to carry paper document proof of vaccination.
> Or did you conveniently forget?


Was that passed into law? Or are you just complaining about something that never happened?


----------



## Melensdad

CrakHoBarbie said:


> Was that passed into law? Or are you just complaining about something that never happened?


New York already put 'vaccine passports' into place.  

Illinois and Hawaii are working on them.  

Several GOP run states have come out and passed laws against the concept.


----------



## CrakHoBarbie

Melensdad said:


> New York already put 'vaccine passports' into place.
> 
> Illinois and Hawaii are working on them.
> 
> Several GOP run states have come out and passed laws against the concept.


I guess the name is confusing. A "vaccine passport" just proves you are vaccinated _*OR*_ recently tested for covid for _*travel*_. Some foreign countries are going to require proof to enter. Some airlines need proof to board. I had to get a covid test last week to enter a school. A pain in the arse. Not the end of the World. No. I didn't feel that my freedom was being infringed. I can certainly see how this would be problematic for conspiracy theory anti-vaxers who think the pandemic was created to "control" us.


----------



## Melensdad

CrakHoBarbie said:


> I guess the name is confusing. A "vaccine passport" just proves you are vaccinated _*OR*_ recently tested for covid for _*travel*_. Some foreign countries are going to require proof to enter. Some airlines need proof to board. I had to get a covid test last week to enter a school. A pain in the arse. Not the end of the World. No. I didn't feel that my freedom was being infringed. I can certainly see how this would be problematic for conspiracy theory anti-vaxers who think the pandemic was created to "control" us.


The NY system is developed for use INSIDE the state of NY, not for foreign travel.  

Airlines use a PCR or Rapid Test as proof to get not he plains.  I was just through Chicago's O'Hare on Monday.  The paper CDC card is not acceptable.  You need a test, showing negative results, with the test taken within 72 of the flight.


----------



## FrancSevin

FrancSevin said:


> So when the current administration floated the mandatory balloon, you weren't listening?
> 
> Or did you conveniently forget?





CrakHoBarbie said:


> Was that passed into law? Or are you just complaining about something that never happened?


Good god you like to pee on a flat rock.
Brings nothing to the conversation.
Because you got nothing to offer but disinformed opinions
I'm done here.


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## Melensdad

Blood on their hands...









						Fauci and the Media Have Serious Blood on Their Hands Over COVID
					

Commentary Donald Trump did many good things as president, but he didn’t always choose the best people to ...




					www.theepochtimes.com
				




Fauci and the Media Have Serious Blood on Their Hands Over COVID​




_Commentary_

Donald Trump did many good things as president, but he didn’t always choose the best people to work with or for him. (Omarosa and “The Mooch”?)​​If he wins a second term, he would be well-advised to bear in mind the old saw “Flattery will get you nowhere.”​​But I don’t blame Trump for the man who was by far the worst government functionary during his administration and right up there among the worst in American history—Anthony Stephen Fauci.​​Treated by the media like some combination of Jesus, Moses, and Hippocrates, this overpaid, lifetime bureaucrat was elevated to the level of soothsayer, every word from his mouth treated as if it were “settled science,” even though that concept could be seen as an oxymoron by anyone with a seventh grade education, and even though he contradicted himself so many times it would take an abacus, appropriately, to keep count.​​Meanwhile, the same media excoriated Donald Trump for even suggesting the cheap and readily-available hydroxychloroquine might be useful in curing the disease long ago dubbed here at The Epoch Times, with more corroboration daily, the “CCP virus.” (I can say congratulations to ET—you were one of the few places to come to for real information—because I had nothing to do with this.)​​Indeed, what has been called Trump Derangement Syndrome now seems too weak a term, considering the degree it dominated even medical science itself during a pandemic. We need something stronger. “Paranoid Trumpophrenia” perhaps.​​Dr. Fauci became the spokesperson for those Trumpophrenics, seemingly adjusting his opinions according to their needs. Anyone who disagreed with His Majesty, no matter his or her bona fides, was ridiculed in the press and social media.​​That anti-democratic institution Facebook that pervades our lives to a frightening extent would not even publish routine questioning of the provenance of the disease until just now. It had to have come from a wet market, in the original view of Mark Zuckerberg, not a Chinese government laboratory. Fauci did not contradict him.​​The media, also with Fauci’s help, was so successful in their propaganda they cowed the two most important medical journals in the English language—The Journal of the American Academy of Medicine and the British Lancet—into claiming the commonly-used hydroxy was actually dangerous.​​These esteemed journals eventually and sheepishly walked this back when actual evidence appeared and they were forced to agree that hydroxy, administered early, could be helpful in the cure. Shame on them.​​The upshot of this prevarication that affected a large number of American and foreign medical institutions was that many died who could have been saved with early treatment. How many we will never know, but a substantial number.​​The media were, in essence, something they always accused others of being—super spreaders.​​So was Dr. Fauci.​​Together they have blood on their hands.​​Of course, something was being hidden in all this—something that was readily apparent over a year ago to anyone paying the slightest attention—and now is coming to light only after a Wall Street Journal article telling us three employees of the Wuhan virology lab had COVID-like symptoms in November 2019.​​That something was the role of Communist China in obfuscating the source of the pandemic that, it is increasingly likely, was so-called “gain of function” research at the Wuhan lab to enable deadly viruses to be more communicable to humans.​​Fauci had some role in all this at the lab that should be fully investigated and exposed. Whether it will be is another question.​​Despite a superficially unified Senate asking for the intelligence from our agencies, it is not yet clear whether that intelligence on China and the pandemic will ever be revealed to the extent necessary.​​Something quite nefarious militates against it that few admit in public. As uncomfortable as it is to say, a powerful and significant percentage of our governmental and business elites already assume, consciously or unconsciously, communist China will win the competition with the West and have already positioned themselves to cash in.​​In a sense they want the communist oligarchs to, since it is more lucrative for both groups working together. (Wonder why Zuckerberg was so reluctant to question the source of the pandemic on Facebook? This should tell you.)​​Globalism isn’t really globalism, but hidden China-ism.​​This is a form of traitorousness unseen in history, certainly our history, and certainly accounts for much of their behavior.​​This is what Joe Biden was telling us spontaneously and candidly when he publicly stated China was not our enemy, only months or weeks before the constraints of a political campaign forced him to take it back.​​It is what he truly believes. You don’t have to have access to Hunter’s laptop to know that (although the evidence would be stunningly obvious and copious).​​Increasingly, we live in a world of the people versus large portions of the political class and the corporate media.​​Fauci was just a leading factor.​


----------



## FrancSevin

The founding fathers of our government warned us not to ever trust the government they created.

Sometimes we get comfortable and forget the warnings.  So much so we begin to trust the governments of other nations.  Even those who are actual enemies. 
I sometimes cautiously doubt the validity of spokesmen of our government agencies.  
I find no reason to ever blindly trust the spokesmen of our enemies. 

The pandemic, and how it was handled tends to re-enforce my caution.


----------



## CrakHoBarbie

FrancSevin said:


> Good god you like to pee on a flat rock.
> Brings nothing to the conversation.
> Because you got nothing to offer but disinformed opinions
> I'm done here.


Oh, so Federal law now requires mandatory covid vaccinations? If you'd pay attention ( which you don't) you'd realize that's all I said _wasn't going to happen. _And all that is happening is instant covid tests. So, step away from the lectern.


----------



## CrakHoBarbie

FrancSevin said:


> The founding fathers of our government warned us not to ever trust the government they created.
> 
> Sometimes we get comfortable and forget the warnings.  So much so we begin to trust the governments of other nations.  Even those who are actual enemies.
> I sometimes cautiously doubt the validity of spokesmen of our government agencies.
> I find no reason to ever blindly trust the spokesmen of our enemies.
> 
> The pandemic, and how it was handled tends to re-enforce my caution.


 I agree. The government has been shite for decades. The status quo has needed restructuring since Kennedy.....


----------



## CrakHoBarbie

Melensdad said:


> Blood on their hands...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fauci and the Media Have Serious Blood on Their Hands Over COVID
> 
> 
> Commentary Donald Trump did many good things as president, but he didn’t always choose the best people to ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theepochtimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fauci and the Media Have Serious Blood on Their Hands Over COVID​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Commentary_
> 
> Donald Trump did many good things as president, but he didn’t always choose the best people to work with or for him. (Omarosa and “The Mooch”?)​​If he wins a second term, he would be well-advised to bear in mind the old saw “Flattery will get you nowhere.”​​But I don’t blame Trump for the man who was by far the worst government functionary during his administration and right up there among the worst in American history—Anthony Stephen Fauci.​​Treated by the media like some combination of Jesus, Moses, and Hippocrates, this overpaid, lifetime bureaucrat was elevated to the level of soothsayer, every word from his mouth treated as if it were “settled science,” even though that concept could be seen as an oxymoron by anyone with a seventh grade education, and even though he contradicted himself so many times it would take an abacus, appropriately, to keep count.​​Meanwhile, the same media excoriated Donald Trump for even suggesting the cheap and readily-available hydroxychloroquine might be useful in curing the disease long ago dubbed here at The Epoch Times, with more corroboration daily, the “CCP virus.” (I can say congratulations to ET—you were one of the few places to come to for real information—because I had nothing to do with this.)​​Indeed, what has been called Trump Derangement Syndrome now seems too weak a term, considering the degree it dominated even medical science itself during a pandemic. We need something stronger. “Paranoid Trumpophrenia” perhaps.​​Dr. Fauci became the spokesperson for those Trumpophrenics, seemingly adjusting his opinions according to their needs. Anyone who disagreed with His Majesty, no matter his or her bona fides, was ridiculed in the press and social media.​​That anti-democratic institution Facebook that pervades our lives to a frightening extent would not even publish routine questioning of the provenance of the disease until just now. It had to have come from a wet market, in the original view of Mark Zuckerberg, not a Chinese government laboratory. Fauci did not contradict him.​​The media, also with Fauci’s help, was so successful in their propaganda they cowed the two most important medical journals in the English language—The Journal of the American Academy of Medicine and the British Lancet—into claiming the commonly-used hydroxy was actually dangerous.​​These esteemed journals eventually and sheepishly walked this back when actual evidence appeared and they were forced to agree that hydroxy, administered early, could be helpful in the cure. Shame on them.​​The upshot of this prevarication that affected a large number of American and foreign medical institutions was that many died who could have been saved with early treatment. How many we will never know, but a substantial number.​​The media were, in essence, something they always accused others of being—super spreaders.​​So was Dr. Fauci.​​Together they have blood on their hands.​​Of course, something was being hidden in all this—something that was readily apparent over a year ago to anyone paying the slightest attention—and now is coming to light only after a Wall Street Journal article telling us three employees of the Wuhan virology lab had COVID-like symptoms in November 2019.​​That something was the role of Communist China in obfuscating the source of the pandemic that, it is increasingly likely, was so-called “gain of function” research at the Wuhan lab to enable deadly viruses to be more communicable to humans.​​Fauci had some role in all this at the lab that should be fully investigated and exposed. Whether it will be is another question.​​Despite a superficially unified Senate asking for the intelligence from our agencies, it is not yet clear whether that intelligence on China and the pandemic will ever be revealed to the extent necessary.​​Something quite nefarious militates against it that few admit in public. As uncomfortable as it is to say, a powerful and significant percentage of our governmental and business elites already assume, consciously or unconsciously, communist China will win the competition with the West and have already positioned themselves to cash in.​​In a sense they want the communist oligarchs to, since it is more lucrative for both groups working together. (Wonder why Zuckerberg was so reluctant to question the source of the pandemic on Facebook? This should tell you.)​​Globalism isn’t really globalism, but hidden China-ism.​​This is a form of traitorousness unseen in history, certainly our history, and certainly accounts for much of their behavior.​​This is what Joe Biden was telling us spontaneously and candidly when he publicly stated China was not our enemy, only months or weeks before the constraints of a political campaign forced him to take it back.​​It is what he truly believes. You don’t have to have access to Hunter’s laptop to know that (although the evidence would be stunningly obvious and copious).​​Increasingly, we live in a world of the people versus large portions of the political class and the corporate media.​​Fauci was just a leading factor.​


So I'm seeing paragraph after paragraph of "Fauci bad", "Hunter bad", with no actual substance. Every single issue you bring up is a tired old Debunked alt-right propaganda talking point. There's not one bit of original text in your entire Gish gallop.  I need details. Not this wild random generalization gleaned  from alt-right media. And your citing Epoch times? That's like me citing CNN to you... It's worthless.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

We're finally getting our first jab in the morning. I can't say that 100% convinced that it will totally prevent the spread. But up here, everything is still shut down and the provincial government has all but said that lockdowns will not be lifted until at least 60% of the population has been vaccinated for at least 2 weeks. That brings us to around the middle of June. So they aren't forcing us to get it but basically pinning us up against the wall saying "you'll get the vaccine or kiss your freedom goodbye. The choice is yours".  While I don't fully support the vaccines, I want to get back to normal where hanging out with friends at camp won't net me a stiffer fine then dealing cocaine. 

Originally they announced that restrictions wouldn't be lifted until june 3rd. Now, they're saying June 14. In the next breath, they said it's now safe to go golfing in groups of 5 without a mask yet I can't go to camp and hang out on my friends site outside in a group of 5 or less. Makes perfect sense and it must be true as the scientists told them so.


----------



## pirate_girl




----------



## Melensdad

And there is more and more...





__





						US Sitting On 'Raft' Of Unexamined Virus Intel; Former Official Says 'Almost No Evidence' Of Natural Origin | ZeroHedge
					

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero




					www.zerohedge.com
				





US Sitting On 'Raft' Of Unexamined Virus Intel; Former Official Says 'Almost No Evidence' Of Natural Origin​Hours after President Biden promised to release the 'full report' from US Intelligence community's 90-day examination of where COVID-19 originated - _*unless there's something he's unaware of*_...​​...the _New York Times_ reports, *there's things he's unaware of*.​​

​​Namely, '*a raft of still-unexamined evidence that required additional computer analysis that might shed light on the mystery*," according to anonymous senior administration officials.​​

​​In other words, *the US government has been sitting on a large collection of intelligence *in perhaps the most important investigation into an economy-wrecking global pandemic, as China destroyed evidence and has refused to cooperate with international probes. According to the report, *Biden's call for the new investigation was in response to the 'new' evidence.*​​While officials declined to describe the new evidence, they are hoping to apply 'an extraordinary amount of computer power' to analyze what the _Times_ speculates may be 'databases of Chinese communications, the movement of lab workers and the pattern of the outbreak of the disease around the city of Wuhan."​​Biden's call was also meant to spur American allies and intelligence agencies to scour their own evidence, such as "intercepts, witnesses or biological evidence — as well as hunt for new intelligence," to assess whether the Chinese government covered up what happened.​​*Astute readers will note* that the _NYT _substitutes its own facts, framing any lab release as of course "accidental," and suggesting that Biden only dismissed the lab origin theory "until the Chinese government this week rejected allowing further investigation by the World Health Organization."​​In reality, plenty of evidence existed which the entire leftist establishment and their media surrogates flatly branded a 'debunked conspiracy theory' after then-President Trump promoted it, while the World Health Organization (WHO) and US Centers for Disease Control (CDC) parroted CCP propaganda that the virus could have _only_emerged via 'natural origin' (as opposed to the Chinese lab manipulating bat coronaviruses in the same city that the pandemic started).​​

​​*Meanwhile,* *China isn't playing ball*.​​


> _*So far, the effort to glean evidence from intercepted communications within China, a notoriously hard target to penetrate, has yielded little*. Current and former intelligence officials say they strongly doubt anyone will find an email or a text message or a document that shows evidence of a lab accident._​_*One allied nation passed on information that three workers in the Wuhan virological laboratory were hospitalized with serious flulike symptoms in the autumn of 2019*. The information about the sickened workers is considered important, but officials cautioned that it did not constitute evidence that they caught the virus at the laboratory — they may have brought it there._​_*The White House is hoping that allies and partners can tap their networks of human sources to find additional information about what happened inside the laboratory*. While the United States has been rebuilding its own sources in China, it has still not fully recovered from the elimination of its network inside the country a decade ago. As a result, having allies press their informants about what went on inside the Wuhan Institute of Virology will be a key part of the intelligence push ahead._​_*The inquiry has not reached a dead end*, a senior Biden administration official said. Officials would not describe the kind of computational analysis they want to do._​


According to the _Times_, *both scientists and spies will be working to unravel how the pandemic started*, as "Senior officials have told the spy agencies that their science-oriented divisions, which have been working on the issue for months, *will play a prominent role in the revitalized inquiry.*"​​*Will the Five Eyes rally around the lab leak?*​​According to the report, US allies have been providing evidence since the beginning of the pandemic. Australia, a member of the so-called Five Eyes partnership which also includes Britain, Canada and New Zealand, has strongly promoted the lab-leak theory. And while US intelligence agencies are reportedly coming together "around the two likely scenarios," *a former State Department official says the evidence to support the natural origin theory is virtually non-existent. *​​"We were finding that despite the claims of our scientific community, including the National Institutes of Health and Dr. Fauci's NIAID organization, there was almost no evidence that supported a natural, zoonotic evolution or source of COVID-19," said former State Department official David Asher in a statement to_ Fox News_. "*The data disproportionately stacked up as we investigated that it was coming out of a lab or some supernatural source.*"​​


> _Asher, the lead contractor on the subject, said the team investigated the two chief hypotheses for the virus' origins, the other being the lab-leak theory that has gained credence after widespread media dismissal over the past year._​_..._​_*Asher has a history of investigative work tracking money for the AQ Khan network, North Korea's nuclear program, and top Al Qaeda leaders, but has fallen under scrutiny from former State Department officials.*_​_*Asher was critical Thursday of former Assistant Secretary of State Chris Ford, who expressed reservations about the investigation's findings and cautioned against the lab theory*. Ford told Fox News that the AVC probe had been kept secret from him and bypassed department and intelligence community biological experts, although adding the lab origin theory was "very possible." -Fox News_​


"That was the epicenter of synthetic biology in the People's Republic of China, and they were up to some very hairy stuff with synthetic biology and so-called gain-of-function techniques," said Asher, *adding that the odds of natural origin were 'extremely long.'*​​*"To say this came out of a zoonotic situation, it's ridiculous," he concluded*.​


----------



## Melensdad

Racist virus reporting? 









						New York Times COVID Reporter Says It’s “Racist” to Discuss Wuhan Lab Leak Theory
					

Journalism clown world strikes again.



					summit.news
				





New York Times COVID Reporter Says It’s “Racist” to Discuss Wuhan Lab Leak Theory​_Journalism clown world strikes again._​Paul Joseph Watson
28 May, 2021
​





HECTOR RETAMAL via Getty Images
*A New York Times reporter who specializes in COVID-19 coverage tweeted that it was “racist” to even talk about the Wuhan lab leak theory.*

The lab leak issue has received a wave of attention following the Biden’s administration’s announcement that a 90 day investigation would be conducted into its veracity.

The NYT itself also reported yesterday that the U.S. intelligence community has been sitting on a “raft” of evidence pertaining to the Wuhan Institute of Virology.

However, Apoorva Mandavilli, who in her bio says she reports for the NYT “mainly” on COVID, asserted in a tweet that even discussing the issue was “racist.”

*“Someday we will stop talking about the lab leak theory and maybe even admit its racist roots. But alas, that day is not yet here,” *tweeted Mandavilli.​
She faced immediate pushback and subsequently deleted the tweet.

*“It damages the NYT’s reputation to have a key reporter on the most important story of the year say a valid news angle shouldn’t be discussed because it has “racist roots.”** Aren’t they supposed to be in the news business?”* asked Josh Barro.​
*“Oh my god: I didn’t realize what her job is,”* remarked investigative journalist Glenn Greenwald. *“Can someone explain to me why it’s racist to wonder if a virus escaped from a Chinese lab, but it’s not racist to insist that it infected humans because of Chinese wet markets? If anything, isn’t the latter more racist?”* he asked.​


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

This guy is fighting the good fight ...








						MASSIVE: WORLD RENOWNED DOCTOR BLOWS LID OFF OF COVID VACCINE
					

WATCH THE FULL 1hour 45min INTERVIEW HERE: https://rumble.com/vhp7y5-full-interview-world-renowned-doctor-blows-lid-off-of-covid-vaccine.html?mref=6gby3&mc=98uay MUST WATCH: Dr. Peter McCullough discu




					rumble.com


----------



## Melensdad

*COVID CURE found by Israeli **scientists?*

*This could be the thing the world needs, not a vaccine, but an actual cure for the disease.*

The full article is at the link, along with photos.  Wider scale trials will be starting soon in Europe.  









						10 serious COVID patients given Israeli drug, leave hospital in one day
					

The data showed a 40% decrease in lung inflammation from treatment – from 55% to 15%, as seen in chest X-rays * Rambam Health Care Campus doctor: ‘Results extremely impressive’




					www.jpost.com
				





10 serious COVID patients given Israeli drug, leave hospital in one day​_The data showed a 40% decrease in lung inflammation from treatment – from 55% to 15%, as seen in chest X-rays * Rambam Health Care Campus doctor: ‘Results extremely impressive’_​
An Israeli biotechnology company has claimed a 100% success rate in the first 10 patients treated with its drug as part of an early-stage clinical trial at Rambam Health Care Campus in Haifa.

The company, Bonus BioGroup, presented the preliminary findings of its Phase I/II trial to peers at the International Society for Cell & Gene Therapy conference in New Orleans last week and shared the results in a statement released to the Tel Aviv Stock Exchange.
...
Bonus’s MesenCure, which consists of activated Mesenchymal Stromal Cells (MSCs) that are isolated from the adipose tissue of healthy donors, was found to reduce inflammation and alleviate respiratory and other symptoms in patients suffering from life-threatening respiratory distress brought on by COVID-19.

“So far, the results of the treatment with the drug MesenCure are extremely impressive and an improvement over the results of other treatments,” said Dr. Shadi Hamoud, principal investigator in the clinical trial and deputy director of the Department of Internal Medicine E at Rambam.

He said the results were so promising that the hospital was already examining use of the treatment for other indications.

Bonus reported on 10 COVID patients between the ages of 45 to 75, all with severe symptoms. Ninety percent of them also had comorbidities.

The data showed a 40% decrease in lung inflammation from treatment – from 55% to 15%, as seen in chest X-rays, in the first five days after treatment. One month later, lung inflammation reached 1%.

Additionally, patients showed significantly improved respiratory function, with blood oxygen saturation increasing to 95% and lung functioning returning to almost entirely normal levels after only one month.

Meretzki shared a laboratory image of a healthy lung, a sick lung and lung treated with MesenCure. “The treated lung looks almost identical to the normal, healthy lung – complete healing, complete prevention of damage to the lung,” Meretzki said.

Most strikingly, patients were discharged from the hospital after a median duration of only one day following the treatment.

And there were no adverse effects associated with MesenCure, the company reported.

Meretzki said the trial followed patients for 30 days post administration of the treatment. All but one had survived. The patient who died did not pass away from COVID-19 but a severe preexisting condition.


----------



## m1west

Developments like this is why I have waited get the COVID vaccine.
1- I want to see what happens to others that did
2- Give a little time for something better like this to be developed
Im mot a spring chicken, but in good health. Im going to give it some time before I decide what is best for me.


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> Developments like this is why I have waited get the COVID vaccine.
> 1- I want to see what happens to others that did
> 2- Give a little time for something better like this to be developed
> Im mot a spring chicken, but in good health. Im going to give it some time before I decide what is best for me.


Seems like a prudent thing for you.

While I happily got my first dose of the Moderna vaccine in January and was fully vaccinated in February, I have long maintained that vaccinations are an INDIVIDUAL CHOICE and should not be mandated.  I'm one of those "at risk" people taking immunosuppressive meds and I'm immunocompromised, so for ME, it was an easy choice.  

If someone has NO RISK FACTORS then there really is very little compelling health reason for them to get the vaccine.  There may be family, travel, work or social reasons, but given that we don't know the long term effects of the vaccine, it is certainly logical that healthy people may choose to wait to get vaccinated, or forego the vaccine completely.

My hope is that:
​1 - Ivermectin is proven to work.  Either from the Uof Minnesota clinical study, or from experience on the ground in India.  That would make for a cheap treatment in early onset Covid.​​2 - The drug from Israel is proven to work.  Small initial trials show it very effective in late stage/serious cases of Covid.​
Having multiple drugs available as treatments may prove to be far better than having a vaccine.


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> Seems like a prudent thing for you.
> 
> While I happily got my first dose of the Moderna vaccine in January and was fully vaccinated in February, I have long maintained that vaccinations are an INDIVIDUAL CHOICE and should not be mandated.  I'm one of those "at risk" people taking immunosuppressive meds and I'm immunocompromised, so for ME, it was an easy choice.
> 
> If someone has NO RISK FACTORS then there really is very little compelling health reason for them to get the vaccine.  There may be family, travel, work or social reasons, but given that we don't know the long term effects of the vaccine, it is certainly logical that healthy people may choose to wait to get vaccinated, or forego the vaccine completely.
> 
> My hope is that:
> ​1 - Ivermectin is proven to work.  Either from the Uof Minnesota clinical study, or from experience on the ground in India.  That would make for a cheap treatment in early onset Covid.​​2 - The drug from Israel is proven to work.  Small initial trials show it very effective in late stage/serious cases of Covid.​
> Having multiple drugs available as treatments may prove to be far better than having a vaccine.


Have not been tested but believe I may have had it, I service 10 facilities here in the Central Valley, every one of them told me a least 75% of the work force had got it and I interact directly with the workforce. Am I that lucky? There was a couple weeks a few months ago where I felt especially run down had some stomach issues along with congestion and cleared in about 10 days. Never had a temperature or anything other than a minor inconvenience. At that time I was working 10 hour days, 7 days per week. Did I or or not, I don't know. Like you said its a case by case individual decision each person should make for themselves.


----------



## Melensdad

Has the USA hit herd immunity?  Or very close to doing so?

40% of the total population of the USA is now fully vaccinated.  And while the vaccinations are slowing down, it is known that people who recovered from Covid are also basically immune to catching covid again.  Estimates say that roughly 1/2 of all unvaccinated people have, or have recovered from Covid.  Even using a lower range, that means that that we are nearly at 70% of the US population that should have some fairly high levels of immunity, which should mean that the US is at, or nearly at, herd immunity.

As for some of the other nations, I totally discount Chile as they used the SinoVac vaccine from China, which is showing to be roughly 50% effective.  Barhain bought a bunch of the SinoVac, realized that it sucked, started to give away the SinoVac doses to small poor island nations and replaced it with Pfizer's vaccine.  I can't find reliable data on what % of their population has been dosed with Pfizer vs what % had SinoVac.

From the folks at ZeroHedge:




__





						Zerohedge
					

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero




					www.zerohedge.com
				




The Global Race Towards Full Vaccination​Scientists initially estimated that 60 to 70 percent of a population would have to acquire resistance to Covid-19 in order for herd immunity to take effect, a threshold that has been revised upwards since the start of the year with 80 to 85 percent quoted in some cases.​​_As Statista's Niall McCarthy notes,_ *the race towards full vaccination is well underway and Israel has the highest share of its population fully jabbed*, according to Our World in Data.​​

​​_You will find more infographics at Statista_​​*Despite the ever-higher immunity threshold discussed by scientists, Israel's Covid-19 case count started to tumble when 40 percent of its population received at least one jab and now 59.3 percent of its inhabitants are fully vaccinated.* The country's reproduction rate has been around 0.5 in recent weeks and it appears to be on track to emerge from the pandemic, suggesting that initial herd immunity estimates carried some accuracy.​​With 45.4 percent of its inhabitants fully vaccinated, Bahrain comes second on the list.​​*In the United States, 40.2 percent of people have been fully vaccinated (though do not forget that almost half of unvaccinated Americans have natural immunity from prior infection).*​​_In this case, full vaccination refers to all doses prescribed by the vaccination protocol with data only available for countries reporting the breakdown of their doses._​​As Scott Morefield wrote recently, *Blue-state lockdown-lovers drunk on their own power like Democratic Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer who insist on a 70 percent vaccination rate in order to ease up on mandates and restrictions are ignoring the science completely in order to hold their people hostage to an unobtainable, unnecessary goal.*​​Dr. Marty Makary, a surgeon at Johns Hopkins Hospital debunked the desire among some health officials, sometimes referred to as "zero COVID," that COVID-19 can be eradicated completely.​​


> *Well, unfortunately, we have this perception now that's being created by some public health leaders that we need to reach total eradication.* We're not gonna get to total absolute risk elimination. That is a false goal and quite honestly it’s being used now to manipulate the public. *We heard today again from our public health leaders that if we get to 70% vaccination, then we can start seeing restrictions removed. That’s dishonest. Most of the country is at herd immunity. Other parts will get there later this month. San Francisco had 12 cases yesterday, most asymptomatic. What do you call that? I call that herd immunity.* And I think what's happening is our public health leaders are dismissing natural immunity from prior infection, which changes the path to get to more population immunity. It invokes mandates, it means kids may have to get it and it demonizes those that are hesitant rather than respecting their decision.​


Indeed, *you don't have to have a medical degree to know that the formula for herd immunity has always been vaccinated plus natural immunity,* but then again, when have Democrats ever been good at math?​


----------



## pirate_girl

Florida concert tickets cost $18 for vaccinated, $999 for unvaccinated
					

Everyone attending the concert at the $18 price must show proof of vaccination at the door.



					www.wwnytv.com


----------



## CrakHoBarbie

Melensdad said:


> but then again, when have Democrats ever been good at math?​











						Democratic professors outnumber Republicans 9 to 1 at top colleges
					

A new study investigating the political affiliations of college professors has found that Democratic-leaning professors vastly outnumber Republicans.




					www.washingtonexaminer.com


----------



## Melensdad

CrakHoBarbie said:


> Democratic professors outnumber Republicans 9 to 1 at top colleges
> 
> 
> A new study investigating the political affiliations of college professors has found that Democratic-leaning professors vastly outnumber Republicans.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.washingtonexaminer.com


First, I did not write the math quotation you extracted, it was part of the article on covid vaccinations and herd immunity.

Second, the world is well aware of the liberal bias in our universities, it explains so many of the ills in our society today but is, never the less, off topic in this covid thread.  *Please stay on topic. * This is not the debate area.


----------



## Melensdad

Indiana University has backed off of its demand that students be vaccinated.


----------



## FrancSevin

I read this item this morning.

As I said, the COVID vaccine may have long term damaging effects especially to the very young.

Also, I have warned about fertility. Is this how the gubmit might control population growth?



> “We made a big mistake. We didn’t realize it until now,” said Byram Bridle, a viral immunologist and associate professor at University of Guelph, Ontario, in an interview with Alex Pierson last Thursday, in which he warned listeners that his message was “scary.”
> “We thought the spike protein was a great target antigen, we never knew the spike protein itself was a toxin and was a pathogenic protein. So by vaccinating people we are inadvertently inoculating them with a toxin,” Bridle said on the show, which is not easily found in a Google search but went viral on the internet this weekend.
> Bridle, a vaccine researcher who was awarded a $230,000 government grant last year for research on COVID vaccine development, said that he and a group of international scientists filed a request for information from the Japanese regulatory agency to get access to what’s called the “biodistribution study.”
> “It’s the first time ever scientists have been privy to seeing where these messenger RNA [mRNA] vaccines go after vaccination,” said Bridle. “Is it a safe assumption that it stays in the shoulder muscle? The short answer is: absolutely not. It’s very disconcerting.”
> Vaccine researchers had assumed that novel mRNA COVID vaccines would behave like “traditional” vaccines and the vaccine spike protein — responsible for infection and its most severe symptoms — would remain mostly in the vaccination site at the shoulder muscle. Instead, the Japanese data showed that the infamous spike protein of the coronavirus gets into the blood where it circulates for several days post-vaccination and then accumulated in organs and tissues including the spleen, bone marrow, the liver, adrenal glands, and in “quite high concentrations” in the ovaries.
> “We have known for a long time that the spike protein is a pathogenic protein. It is a toxin. It can cause damage in our body if it gets into circulation,” Bridle said.
> The SARS-CoV-2 spike protein is what allows it to infect human cells. Vaccine manufacturers chose to target the unique protein, making cells in the vaccinated person manufacture the protein which would then, in theory, evoke an immune response to the protein, preventing it from infecting cells.
> A large number of studies has shown that the most severe effects of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, such as blood clotting and bleeding, are due to the effects of the spike protein of the virus itself
> “What has been discovered by the scientific community is the spike protein on its own is almost entirely responsible for the damage to the cardiovascular system, if it gets into circulation,” Bridle told listeners.
> Lab animals injected with purified spike protein into their bloodstream developed cardiovascular problems, and the spike protein was also demonstrated to cross the blood brain barrier and cause damage to the brain.
> A grave mistake, according to Bridle, was the belief that the spike protein would not escape into the blood circulation. “Now, we have clear-cut evidence that the vaccines that make the cells in our deltoid muscles manufacture this protein — that the vaccine itself, plus the protein — gets into blood circulation,” he said.
> Bridle cited the recent publication of a peer-reviewed study which detected spike protein in the blood plasma of three of 13 young healthcare workers that had received Moderna’s COVID-19 vaccine. In one of the workers, the spike protein circulated for 29 days.


The article also discussed prior concerns of the spike protein:


> Pediatric rheumatologist J. Patrick Whelan had warned a vaccine advisory committee of the Food and Drug Administration of the potential for the spike protein in COVID vaccines to cause microvascular damage causing damage to the liver, heart, and brain in “ways that were not assessed in the safety trials.”
> While Whelan did not dispute the value of a coronavirus vaccine that worked to stop transmission of the disease (which no COVID vaccine in circulation has been demonstrated to do), he said, “it would be vastly worse if hundreds of millions of people were to suffer long-lasting or even permanent damage to their brain or heart microvasculature as a result of failing to appreciate in the short-term an unintended effect of full-length spike protein-based vaccines on other organs.”
> Vaccine-associated spike protein in blood circulation could explain myriad reported adverse events from COVID vaccines, including the 4,000 deaths to date, and nearly 15,000 hospitalizations, reported to the U.S. government’s Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) as of May 21, 2021. Because it is a passive reporting system, these reports are likely only the tip of an iceberg of adverse events since a Harvard Pilgrim Healthcare study found that less than one percent of side-effects that physicians should report in patients following vaccination are in fact reported to VAERS.


----------



## Melensdad

The VAERS data quoted in your article is grossly incorrect and overstated by miles.

VAERS data is self reported, it then is checked, and in the cases of death, checked in great detail.  Reports of deaths AFTER taking the vaccine do no mean the vaccine was a cause or even a contributing factor to the death.  

It is false to say that COVID vaccines have caused 966 deaths, because the VAERS database is not designed to give this information. For example, in the dataset published by _The Epoch Times_, one of the people who died after getting a vaccine had also been injured in a car crash between getting the jab and the date of their death, but the case was still included in the dataset.  So take VAERS data and start digging for truth, don't take it as a conclusion.


----------



## pirate_girl

OHIO — Today, Wednesday, June 2, serves as a milestone on the hardship road that is the COVID-19 pandemic. At midnight on Tuesday, the Ohio Department of Health and Governor Mike DeWine’s administration lifted all orders pertaining to masks, social distancing, and capacity limits, indoors and out.
During a recent address, DeWine lauded the efforts of all Ohioans, saying residents showed “grit, determination, and such great compassion” in the face of the pandemic, and the efforts on the part of the ODH and the State to curb its spread. He then announced the lifting of orders supporters deemed necessary, and opponents — including many members of Ohio’s General Assembly — described as draconian.
“The tide of this pandemic is finally turning in our favor,” DeWine said. “It’s time to end the health orders. It’s been a year. You’ve followed the protocols. You’ve done what we’ve asked you to do. You’ve bravely fought this virus.”
While the orders are now lifted in general, some restrictions remain in place. Long term care and assisted living facilities are still subject to pared down mandates. Additionally, Ohio businesses and schools may still require masks for some, if not all.
A key component to when and how private and public businesses and agencies might implement orders of their own is what medical professionals have described as the single greatest weapon against the virus: vaccination.
That scientific belief wasn’t lost on DeWine. In announcing the lifting of the orders, he emphasized the need for vaccinations, a sentiment Putnam County Health Commissioner Kim Rieman echoed.
“The mandates are lifted, the social distancing and the masking mandate,” she said on Tuesday. “However, CDC guidance is still that unvaccinated people should wear a mask. People need to evaluate who they’re going to be around, and their own vaccination status, and make the decision that best protects them and their loved ones.”
When the vaccine first arrived in Putnam County just before Christmas of last year, Rieman said county residents’ lined up for inoculation, creating wait lists, and the need for mass vaccination clinics. Now, she said, those numbers have dwindled. Once in the top five in the State for percentage of population vaccinated, Putnam County has since fallen into the bottom third.
“Putnam County, like a lot of other counties in Ohio, is seeing a slow down,” Rieman said. “We are really wanting to keep up what we were doing, because we know there are a lot of individuals out there who could receive the vaccine who are just choosing not to.”
Although clearly an advocate for vaccination, Rieman said there are purely selfish reasons why everyone should pursue vaccination.
” One of the things we want to make clear, even though the mask mandate is lifted — along with social distancing and occupancy limits — the thing that does still stand is if you are in contact with a confirmed case of COVID, the quarantine will still be implemented. We don’t want people to think there’s no need to do this anymore, and that there’s no need to get vaccinated. There still is a very important need to get vaccinated. If someone comes in contact with a confirmed case, they will still have to quarantine for those ten days. Unless they’re vaccinated. If they are vaccinated, they can continue doing what they’ve been doing, unless they show symptoms.”
Rieman asserted the quarantine mandate is in effect for all unvaccinated individuals, even those who have already contracted the virus.
“Even though we’ve been living with this for a year, this is still a relatively new virus,” Rieman said. “We just don’t know enough at this point. We can’t take chances.”


----------



## FrancSevin

Melensdad said:


> The VAERS data quoted in your article is grossly incorrect and overstated by miles.
> 
> VAERS data is self reported, it then is checked, and in the cases of death, checked in great detail.  Reports of deaths AFTER taking the vaccine do no mean the vaccine was a cause or even a contributing factor to the death.
> 
> It is false to say that COVID vaccines have caused 966 deaths, because the VAERS database is not designed to give this information. For example, in the dataset published by _The Epoch Times_, one of the people who died after getting a vaccine had also been injured in a car crash between getting the jab and the date of their death, but the case was still included in the dataset.  So take VAERS data and start digging for truth, don't take it as a conclusion.


Miss application of COD during the pandemic has been universal. A GSW victim with COVID died of Covid.  Same with the biker who died after hitting a utility pole.   So yes the stats are suspect.  But the fears concerning "Spiked Proteins" are justified.

Or have people forgotten, with this vaccine, WE WERE THE TEST GROUP!

Conspiracists, and I am not one, have long suggested an honest fear of mass immunization being used to cover mass sterilizations of a population. There is less doubt today in the theory COVID=19 was invented. Is it possible with COVID-19 we were also the "test group?"

 One plus one, generally equals two. 

Proof? hardly.   Yet cause for concern?  Hell yes.

This thread is about Vaccine passports.  Using fear and a deadly disease to limit individual rights.  Why not just put a bar code on each of us?
A least it would be safer for our health.


----------



## Melensdad

FrancSevin said:


> ... Why not just put a bar code on each of us?      A least it would be safer for our health.


I refuse to get a tattoo


----------



## FrancSevin

Melensdad said:


> I refuse to get a tattoo


Me too also.  So when the authorities tell me I must have one to travel in or out of the USA there's going to be a problem.

Not a dilemma.  A PROBLEM!

A barcode tattoo on my neck would be worse that a yoke.  The Yoke I could remove and hit somebody hard.

The yoke would be on them.


LOL


----------



## Bigus

FrancSevin said:


> Me too also.  So when the authorities tell me I must have one to travel in or out of the USA there's going to be a problem.
> 
> Not a dilemma.  A PROBLEM!
> 
> A barcode tattoo on my neck would be worse that a yoke.  The Yoke I could remove and hit somebody hard.
> 
> The yoke would be on them.
> 
> 
> LOL


Fine. Then don’t plan to travel.
The yoke is now on you.


----------



## Melensdad

Bigus said:


> Fine. Then don’t plan to travel.


Anywhere in the USA is not an issue for travel.  

But international travel may become an issue at some point in the future, or not.  I deal with several foreigners, some got vaccinated simply to make travel easier.  But it really didn't.  

My Russian fencer, Dasha, is vaccinated, but still had to take a Covid test.  So the vaccination didn't make anything easier.  When I checked her onto a flight about 2 weeks ago they asked to see her test results, but didn't care if she had been vaccinated or not.


----------



## Melensdad

If you had Covid then you do *not* need to be vaccinated.









						No point vaccinating those who’ve had COVID-19: Cleveland Clinic study suggests
					

The study findings reveal that individuals with previous SARS-CoV-2 infection do not get additional benefits from vaccination, indicating that COVID-19 vaccines should be prioritized to individuals without prior infection. The study is currently available on the medRxiv* preprint server.




					www.news-medical.net
				






No point vaccinating those who’ve had COVID-19: Findings of Cleveland Clinic study​By Dr. Sanchari Sinha Dutta, Ph.D.Jun 8 2021
Scientists from the Cleveland Clinic, USA, have recently evaluated the effectiveness of coronavirus disease 2019 COVID-19) vaccination among individuals with or without a history of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) infection.

The study findings reveal that individuals with previous SARS-CoV-2 infection do not get additional benefits from vaccination, indicating that COVID-19 vaccines should be prioritized to individuals without prior infection. The study is currently available on the _medRxiv_* preprint server.




_Study: Necessity of COVID-19 vaccination in previously infected individuals. Image Credit: Orpheus FX / Shutterstock_
Background​In the United States, the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has provided emergency use authorization for two mRNA-based COVID-19 vaccines developed by Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna, which have shown high efficacy against SARS-CoV-2 infection and COVID-19 disease in clinical trials. However, the ability to vaccinate a large part of the global population is limited by vaccine supply.

In order to ensure fair access to vaccines throughout the world, the COVID-19 vaccines Global Access (COVAX) initiative was launched. In many countries, especially those with low socioeconomic status, there is a serious shortage of vaccines. Thus, in order to get the maximum vaccine benefits, the most vulnerable population should be prioritized for the vaccination.

Currently, most countries prioritize vaccination for healthcare and other frontline workers, elderly people, and people with comorbidities.

To further narrow down the prioritization criteria, the scientists in the current study have evaluated the necessity of COVID-19 vaccines for individuals who were previously infected with SARS-CoV-2.





_Explanation of “previously infected” analyzed as a time-independent covariate and “vaccinated” treated as a time-dependent covariate._

Study design​The study was conducted on 52,238 employees in the Cleveland Clinic. A positive RT-PCR test was considered to define SARS-CoV-2 infection. The participants received two doses of the Pfizer/BioNTech or Moderna COVID-19 vaccine at an interval of 28 days. A participant was considered vaccinated after 14 days of receiving the 2nd vaccine dose. Similarly, a participant who tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 at least 42 days before the vaccination initiation was considered previously infected.

Important observations​Of all enrolled participants, 5% had previous SARS-CoV-2 infection. Compared to 59% of non-infected participants, only 47% of previously infected participants were vaccinated by the end of the study. About 63% of all vaccinated participants received the Moderna vaccine.

The analysis of cumulative COVID-19 incidence revealed that during the course of the study, SARS-CoV-2 infection occurred almost exclusively in participants who were not previously infected and were not vaccinated.

Interestingly, no significant difference in COVID-19 incidence was observed between previously infected and currently unvaccinated participants, previously infected and currently vaccinated participants, and previously uninfected and currently vaccinated participants.

The participants from these three groups exhibited a significantly lower incidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection compared to previously uninfected and currently unvaccinated participants.

Specifically, of all infections during the study period, 99.3% occurred in participants who were not infected previously and remained unvaccinated. In contrast, only 0.7% of infections occurred in participants who were not previously infected but were currently vaccinated.

Importantly, not a single incidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection was observed in previously infected participants with or without vaccination.





_Simon-Makuch plot showing the cumulative incidence of COVID-19 among subjects previously infected and not previously infected with COVID-19, who did and did not receive the vaccine. Curves for the unvaccinated are based on data for those who did not receive the vaccine during the duration of the study, and for those waiting to receive the vaccine. Day zero was Dec 16, 2020, the day vaccination was started in our institution. Error bars represent 95% confidence intervals. Seven subjects who had been vaccinated earlier as participants in clinical trials were considered vaccinated throughout the duration of the study. Twelve subjects who received their first dose in the first week of the vaccination campaign managed to get their second dose three weeks later, and were thus considered vaccinated earlier than 42 days since the start of the vaccination campaign_

With further statistical analysis, it was observed that the COVID-19 vaccination significantly reduced the risk of SARS-CoV-2 infection in previously uninfected participants but not in previously infected participants.

Although the study did not directly estimate the duration of protection from natural infection, it was observed that previously infected participants remained protected against COVID-19 for at least 10 months after the symptom onset or a positive test result.

Study significance​The study findings reveal that individuals who previously had symptomatic COVID-19 are less likely to get additional benefits from vaccination.

In contrast, individuals without prior SARS-CoV-2 infection can get the maximum benefits from vaccination. Thus, based on the study findings, COVID-19 vaccines should be prioritized to naïve individuals without a history of SARS-CoV-2 infection.


----------



## FrancSevin

Every year my doctor insists I get the flu shot of the day. Says schedule it to your convenience. 

I always get the flu symptoms, so for me it is a matter of scheduling the time I want to be ill.

I had COVID-19 and do not want to enjoy those symptoms again.
I will not accept a vaccination.


----------



## Melensdad

FrancSevin said:


> I had COVID-19 and do not want to enjoy those symptoms again.
> I will not accept a vaccination.


I had the Moderna jabs and didn’t have any side effects other than a sore arm after the first shot. 

Might have had some mild chills at night after the second dose; I woke up with the blanket kicked off so it’s possible the chills were unrelated to the vaccine. 

But, based on the Cleveland Clinic research, there is NO REASON anyone who recovered from Covid would need to be vaccinated.  So if you have had Covid and recovered then the vaccine is of no benefit to you based on their sample/research.


----------



## m1west

I would have never guessed this could happen, This is why I waited. now I'm waiting longer


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> I would have never guessed this could happen, This is why I waited. now I'm waiting longerView attachment 137885


For what it is worth, this is limited to fairly YOUNG men.  It has NOT been noted in the more mature populations (age 50+); not sure it has been found in the 40+ age bracket either.

Also, it should be noted that one of the long term side effects of covid is a condition of a thickening of the heart muscles.  So get covid and you stand to have the same outcome. 

In both cases, the disease or the vaccine, this side effect is RARE

Israel’s Health Ministry found found 275 cases of heart inflammation among the more than 5 million people in the country who received a vaccine between December 2020 and May. An Israeli study found “a probable link” between receiving the second dose of the Pfizer jab *“and the appearance of myocarditis among men aged 16 to 30,” *the ministry said.​


----------



## Melensdad

In more covid news.  IVERMECTIN may have just won a few more supporters, but perhaps only tepid support.

Clinical observation, not an actual study, but better controls than many of the so-called studies that have come out of South America, Africa and the Middle East.  People treated with Ivermectin were 40% less likely to enter Intensive Care wards.  And were 35% less likely to get severe Covid.

So not a cure.  But certainly it helps your odds.  

The story is much longer than this, but here are the most pertinent portions of the article related to Ivermectin...









						Buenas noticias en La Pampa: Son alentadores los resultados preliminares de tratamientos con ivermectina en pacientes con Covid-
					

La ivermectina, un antiparasitario muy conocido por todos los productores ganaderos, demostró tener resultados verificables para el tratamiento de los




					bichosdecampo.com
				





Translated from the original Spanish:

From a preliminary analysis of the clinical evolution of 2000 patients who entered the ivermectin program from its beginnings until May 10 of this year, and of 12,600 patients who were diagnosed during the same period but who did not participate in that monitored intervention, *it was evidenced that in people over 40 years of age the frequency of admission to intensive care was close to 40% lower in those who received ivermectin*, while the development of *severe forms of the disease (defined from admission to intensive care or the death of patients) was a 35% less frequent* in treated subjects than in those who did not participate in the program.​​*"We believe that these data are encouraging and invite us to continue on the path begun in January (this year); however, we want to highlight that these results are preliminary,"* Kohan said.​​"Likewise, since it is not a clinical study, but the monitoring of an intervention program, it is necessary that evidence emerges from clinical trials before recommending the use of this drug outside the monitored intervention framework that is being carried out in the province; in particular, we strongly discourage self-medication by people," he warned.​


----------



## Ceee

Judge rules in favor of a Houston hospital requiring employees to be vaccinated against Covid-19
					

"The plaintiffs are not just jeopardizing their own health; they are jeopardizing the health of doctors, nurses, support staff, patients and their families," a judge said. The lead plaintiff "can freely choose to accept or refuse a COVID-19 vaccine; however if she refuses she will simply need to...




					www.cnn.com
				





"The judge agreed with Houston Methodist Hospital. Hughes admonished Bridges' analogy that her threat of termination in this case was like "forced medical experimentation during the Holocaust."
Judge Hughes called that claim "reprehensible" and said Bridges was not being coerced."

"Methodist is trying to do their business of saving lives without giving them ... COVID-19," Hughes wrote in the dismissal of the lawsuit.
"It is a choice made to keep staff, patients, and their families safer. Bridges can freely choose to accept or refuse a COVID-19 vaccine; however if she refuses she will simply need to work somewhere else."

............................
Houston Methodist is a privately owned and run hospital.  One thing that runs through my mind is this:  If I had to admit a loved one to a hospital right now, would I choose a hospital where all the employees had been vaccinated over a hospital that had optional covid vaccines for its employees.  I'm pretty sure I know which route I'd choose.


----------



## Melensdad

Covid cases in the USA are flat and low 

Covid cases in Canada are dropping and low 

Covid cases in the UK are are DOUBLE the cases per million -vs- US/Canada and *climbing rapidly* 

PM Boris Johnson extended the "lockdown" in the UK to July 19.  The Indian variant (_now called the DELTA because the W.H.O. didn't want variants identified by nation fearing it is politically incorrect_) has taken over as the dominant version of the Covid disease. 

Cases in England are up 50% over last week. 

The Delta/Indian variant now accounts for approximately 97% of the Covid cases in the UK.
The Delta/Indian variant is only 10% of the cases in the USA at the moment.

The Delta/Indian variant carries a higher viral load for a longer duration which is 60+% more infectious leading to sicker people and that results in 84% greater chance of hospitalization versus the Alpha/Kent/UK variant, which is currently the dominant variation in North America. 

The Delta/India variant seems to affect younger adults, the Alpha/Kent/Uk variant, which is prominent in North America, seems to have a greater adverse affect on older adults (age 55+).  

We don't really know if the Delta/India variant also adversely affects the older adults since most older adults have been vaccinated in the UK.  Here in the USA we will find out as there are large areas of the country where older adults have chosen not to be vaccinated.

There is a strong link between low cases and high vaccinations.  There is also a strong case between low hospitalization and high vaccination.  Vaccinations appear to be highly effective against all current variants of Covid19 and, in the rare instances when vaccinated people catch Covid19, they tend to be mild.


----------



## Melensdad

Comedian Jon Stewart unleashes the likely truth, which the media has denied, hidden and ridiculed for a year, on the debut of the Steven Colbert Tonight Show.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1404665481886195717


----------



## Melensdad

This is an interesting reporting job on an Ivermectin study, possibly the most compelling that I have seen, because it is from a legitimate source.  Much of the evidence for Ivermectin is simple retroactive, non-control group, non-placebo, analysis.  This one is different.  Dr John Campbell, who has given a daily Covid update for over a year, breaks it down in his typical easy to understand fashion.

The video starts with vaccine information on the new Novavax, you can skip ahead if you want to see the Ivermectin info.  It certainly is not a cure for Covid.  But it appears to be highly effective in reducing Covid in most patients.


----------



## Melensdad

Plexiglas barriers/screens in supermarkets, retail stores and other locations may have actually increased the spread of covid because they reduced or interrupted ventilation airflow.  As we know, Covid is not so much spread in droplets, but rather is airborne and drifts through the air.  Ventilation and airflow dilute the disease concentrations and reduce the ability of the disease to have a high enough concentration to cause illness in most people.

And the Danish, apparently all mouth breathing MAGA supporters, have concluded in a large scale study that masks don't work.  So now the English say to tear down the plastic barriers and the Danish say to take off the face diapers.  Clearly there are risks to spreading Covid in crowded spaces with low ventilation.  Social distancing and increasing airflow may be the secrets to defeating future viruses.





__





						Zerohedge
					

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero




					www.zerohedge.com
				



​​Perspex Screens Installed To Stop COVID May Have Actually Increased Its Spread, UK Govt Report Finds​_Authored by Paul Joseph Watson via Summit News,_​​*A leaked Whitehall document seen by Politico suggests that perspex screens installed to stop the transmission of COVID-19 may actually have increased its spread.*​​

​​Businesses and schools were told by the government to install the screens as a condition of re-opening after the first lockdown and they were widely used by ‘essential’ shops throughout the entire period.​​Politico’s Alex Wickham writes that the perspex screens could be about to be scrapped given new information the government has received on their efficacy.​​


> _*“Ministers are also being advised that those perspex screens that have appeared in some offices and restaurants are unlikely to have any benefit in terms of preventing transmission,”*_ states the report.​“Problems include them not being positioned correctly, with the possibility that *they actually increase the risk of transmission by blocking airflow*. Therefore there is clear guidance to ministers that these perspex screens should be scrapped.”​


Despite the report, government ministers say there is no plan to change advice on installing the screens in businesses.​​*What other COVID-19 measures put in place to fight the spread of the virus have been utterly useless or actually made it worse?*​​A study on the effectiveness of face masks involving 6,000 participants in Denmark found* “there was no statistically significant difference between those who wore masks and those who did not when it came to being infected by Covid-19.”*​


----------



## pirate_girl

We've come a long way, baby!









						Ohio ending COVID-19 state of emergency, changing requirements in nursing homes
					

The state-mandated COVID-19 restrictions on visitation in nursing homes will be lifted on Friday. Any rules on visitation will be set by individual centers.




					www.13abc.com
				




“We couldn’t find a significant reason to keep doing this,” DeWine said.

The changes come as Ohio reached a new milestone in the fight against COVID-19, with more than 57% of Ohio’s adults vaccinated against the virus. Nearly 47% of Ohio’s entire population has received their vaccine.


----------



## Melensdad

Couple bits of news.

CANADA remains closed along the US border.  




__





						Trudeau Resists Business Pressure to Open U.S. Border for Summer
					





					www.msn.com
				






Data from US blood donors shows that 49.1% had seroprevalence of Covid in March which indicates the US had a high level of infection, and consequently is moving rapidly toward herd immunity, with vaccines accelerating the movement toward herd.

Covid has a 0.339% fatality rate for those infected.


UK is getting hit by the Delta variant, currently only 11% of US cases, but that variant is growing exponentially.








						UK virus cases surge even as 8 in 10 have received shots
					

A study by Public Health England showed infection rates increasing across all age groups, but are highest among people aged 20 to 29.More than 11,000 new cases of the disease were reported on Thursday, along with 19 deaths, according to the Department Health




					www.livemint.com
				




UK virus cases surge even as 8 in 10 have received shots​The UK recorded the most coronavirus cases in a day since mid-February, amid warnings the current wave of infections driven by the highly transmissible delta variant may still be weeks from peaking.​​More than 11,000 new cases of the disease were reported on Thursday, along with 19 deaths, according to the Department Health. A study by Public Health England showed* infection rates increasing across all age groups, but are highest among people aged 20 to 29. *Separately, the government said eight in 10 adults have now had their first vaccine dose.​​The data illustrates how the delta variant, first identified in India, upended the government’s plan to lift remaining pandemic restrictions this month. Prime Minister Boris Johnson announced a four-week delay on Monday to allow more adults to receive a second dose of the vaccine, which data show significantly increases protection against the new strain.​​“It is important to take up the offer of the vaccine to protect yourself and others," PHE Medical Director Yvonne Doyle said in an emailed statement.* “Case rates have increased across all age groups and regions around England, and we are seeing further increases in hospitalizations."*​​Research from Imperial College London published Thursday found the prevalence of Covid-19 in England is increasing exponentially, driven by younger age groups that haven’t been vaccinated.​​The current infection surge will “definitely" lead to more hospital admissions and deaths, England’s Chief Medical Officer Chris Whitty. . . ​


----------



## m1west

Another tool in the COVID fight for those that get it.


----------



## m1west

Just got this emailed to me from a trade union I am affiliated with. Its now official, you can be arrested for not wearing a mask if you are not vaccinated.


----------



## m1west

Take a look at the enforcement, you are an imminent danger and a menace to society if you are not masked and not vaccinated. Punishable by fine, imprisonment or both. Signed by a bureaucrat. So something that is scientifically proven to not be effective is now mandatory or you go to jail.


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> Take a look at the enforcement, you are an imminent danger and a menace to society if you are not masked and not vaccinated. Punishable by fine, imprisonment or both. Signed by a bureaucrat. So something that is scientifically proven to not be effective is now mandatory or you go to jail.


Got to be a California thing!   My state has no mask policies


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> Got to be a California thing!   My state has no mask policies


Not yet.


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> Not yet.


I would seriously doubt if Indiana would arrest anyone for not wearing a mask.  There would be an armed rebellion.


----------



## pirate_girl

Melensdad said:


> I would seriously doubt if Indiana would arrest anyone for not wearing a mask.  There would be an armed rebellion.


Same as Ohio, I think.


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> I would seriously doubt if Indiana would arrest anyone for not wearing a mask.  There would be an armed rebellion.


But you likely didn't think Indiana republicans would fund critical race theory for your schools either. Liberal is a sickness and all the major cities in the US have it.


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> But you likely didn't think Indiana republicans would fund critical race theory for your schools either. Liberal is a sickness and all the major cities in the US have it.


Actually I think they funded an education bill and were silly enough to leave open a path for SOME districts to insert C.R.T.

You will notice that our State Attorney General just issued a Parents Rights document and gives instructions on how parents can demand that bullshit like CRT can be yanked out of schools.  

Indiana is also the state that had a Libertarian candidate for Governor run in November 2020 on the issue of NO MASKS, not only was he polling in 2nd place ahead of the Democrat, he was eating away at the support of the Republican governor.  Ultimately pressure from the freedom lovers of the state caused the Governor to change his positions on lockdowns, masks, etc.  Bear in mind we were a "mild" lockdown state and our "mask mandate" carried no criminal penalty but even those were too strict for many people! 

Indiana is ranked as one of the "freest" states in the union based on individual, business, taxes, etc.


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> Actually I think they funded an education bill and were silly enough to leave open a path for SOME districts to insert C.R.T.
> 
> You will notice that our State Attorney General just issued a Parents Rights document and gives instructions on how parents can demand that bullshit like CRT can be yanked out of schools.
> 
> Indiana is also the state that had a Libertarian candidate for Governor run in November 2020 on the issue of NO MASKS, not only was he polling in 2nd place ahead of the Democrat, he was eating away at the support of the Republican governor.  Ultimately pressure from the freedom lovers of the state caused the Governor to change his positions on lockdowns, masks, etc.  Bear in mind we were a "mild" lockdown state and our "mask mandate" carried no criminal penalty but even those were too strict for many people!
> 
> Indiana is ranked as one of the "freest" states in the union based on individual, business, taxes, etc.


My county here in Ca, took the same position with the Sheriff coming out in the local paper stating they wouldn't be enforcing any of Newsoms emergency powers orders last year, and they followed through. My point is the fight is everywhere state by state county by county


----------



## Ceee

m1west said:


> you can be arrested for not wearing a mask if you are not vaccinated.


Seems a lot of people in California are upset over a lot of things:









						It's official: California's governor will face a recall election
					

The Gavin Newsom recall election is happening in California.




					www.sfgate.com
				




"The Gavin Newsom recall election is happening in California."


----------



## FrancSevin

My son's best friend just passed of COVID.  That's three of his old Navy pals. 

The last one had the Pitzer shots.  Still got one of the variants.  Delta.   Died in a week.

All of them were in their forties.

One wonders,,,,,;


----------



## m1west

FrancSevin said:


> My son's best friend just passed of COVID.  That's three of his old Navy pals.
> 
> The last one had the Pitzer shots.  Still got one of the variants.  Delta.   Died in a week.
> 
> All of them were in their forties.
> 
> One wonders,,,,,;


Thats the weird part with it, just no rime or reason in some cases, a 101 year old WW2 vet got it and beat it and someone 40 dies in a week. Condolences to your sons friend.


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> Thats the weird part with it, just no rime or reason in some cases, a 101 year old WW2 vet got it and beat it and someone 40 dies in a week. Condolences to your sons friend.


The 101 year old WW2 vet probably had the original Covid 19.

The 40 year old had the Delta/Indian variant, which seems to be more effective at attacking younger people, so a younger person getting the original Covid 19 would have more than likely survived with just the sniffles, a cough or a bad headache but the new Indian variant is about 60% more infectious than the Alpha/UK variant, which was about 40% more infectious than the original variant.  More infectious does not necessarily mean the variant is more deadly it just means it spreads easier, but for those who might be susceptible to Covid complications that is of little consolation.

The Pfizer and the Moderna vaccines seem to do a very good job of making the disease less severe and dramatically lower hospitalization rates/complication rates of those who are vaccinated and still get Covid, but there are obviously no guarantees.

Franc, sorry for your son's loss.


----------



## Melensdad

Interesting evidence in favor of the generic drug Ivermectin.  Not proof that it works but clearly strong support that it will likely help.


----------



## mla2ofus

I knew once Trump took Ivermectin it would be no good but now it's OK.


----------



## Melensdad

mla2ofus said:


> I knew once Trump took Ivermectin it would be no good but now it's OK.


I think he took HCQ not Ivermectin


----------



## Melensdad

Another update from Dr John Campbell.  

He discusses the USA situation first, then Australia so if you are not concerned with AU you can tune out after the US portion.  

Interesting notes about the Delta/Indian variant, it is showing its agressiveness in spread.  Doubling every 2 weeks.  Currently 26% of all cases in the US are the Delta/Indian variant.  We can expect it to pass the 50% mark soon, and by the end of the month should be in the 90-95% range for all Covid cases.

Interesting that Dr Fauci actually said there is no need to change the mask policy for fully vaccinated people.  He has been playing Dr Doom since before the election, pushing the goalposts around, etc.  But he sees no reason to have fully vaccinated wear masks.  This is contrary to guidance from Los Angeles and also from the WHO.






Indiana's governor has extended the emergency order until the end of July.  I'm not sure what it actually applies to?  I think masks are only mandated in government buildings?


----------



## Melensdad

Story continues at the link:








						Arthritis drugs tocilizumab and sarilumab reduce Covid deaths: study - France 24
					

Arthritis drugs tocilizumab and sarilumab reduce Covid deaths: study




					www.france24.com
				





*Arthritis drugs tocilizumab and sarilumab reduce the risk of death and the need for ventilators among hospitalized Covid-19 patients*, according to an analysis of nearly 11,000 patients published Tuesday.​​The study appeared in the Journal of the American Medical Association and prompted the World Health Organization (WHO) to recommend the use of the medicines, known as IL-6 inhibitors, in addition to corticosteroids among patients with severe or critical Covid.​​Manu Shankar-Hari, a professor at King's College London and lead author of the paper, told AFP that the research represented a "definitive piece of evidence" in favor of the drugs after earlier studies produced mixed results.​​Among hospitalized Covid patients, administering one of the drugs in addition to corticosteroids reduced the risk of death by 17 percent, compared to the use of corticosteroids alone.​​In patients who were not on ventilators, the risk of progressing to mechanical ventilation or death was reduced by 21 percent, compared to the use of corticosteroids alone.​


----------



## Melensdad

And more information about Vitamin D

All positive.  So much evidence supports taking a daily vitamin D supplement, not just for Covid but for your health.


----------



## Melensdad

I love this movie!


----------



## Melensdad

Goldman Sachs investment analysis has some interesting insights into the recovery post-covid and how the more infectious (not not more lethal) Delta/Indian variant could disrupt a global recovery.






						Zerohedge
					

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero




					www.zerohedge.com
				




Delta Could Disrupt Emerging World's Post-COVID Recovery, Goldman Warns​Now that the Delta variant has revived fears about renewed COVID outbreaks from the US to Europe to Asia, a team of analysts at Goldman Sachs has published its analysis of the risks posed by the mutated strain. The conclusion: since full vaccination remains effective at preventing infections, countries with low vaccination rates are the most vulnerable to another outbreak of the Delta variant.

As Goldman pointed out in an earlier note, the Delta variant represents a growing share of new COVID cases.





Accordingly, the Goldman team sees the risk of high hospitalizations and fatalities, followed by economy-damaging lockdowns, as rising most rapidly in Russia, South Africa, and Indonesia.





However, a more important takeaway involves the difficulty of achieving "COVID zero", something no country - not even China - has managed to achieve. If nothing else, the rise of the Delta variant likely increases the risk that COVID will become endemic like the flu.

Of course, most countries have already come to terms with the fact that "COVID zero" probably isn't a realistic public health goal.

But in Australia, Israel and China, it could complicate authorities efforts to move past the crisis (though Goldman expects a gradual H2 recovery in consumption as infections "stabilize" in Australia and continue to decline in China).

The most likely scenario implies a slightly slower global reopening, with the risk highest in countries with low vaccination rates. Still, "our global GDP growth forecasts of 6.6% in 2021 and 4.8% in 2022 therefore remain optimistic in absolute terms, although they are now closer to the consensus than at any point since April 2020."





The rest of Goldman's note consisted of a Q&A where analysts answered clients' questions:

*Q.* The Delta variant (first identified in India) is estimated to be 50-60% more transmissible than the Alpha variant (first identified in the UK). How effective are the Western vaccines against the Delta variant?

*A.* While the Delta variant weighs on the efficacy of vaccines (and especially single doses) at preventing infections (especially asymptomatic infections), Pfizer and AstraZeneca full vaccinations remain highly effective at protecting hospitalizations, and Moderna and J&J lab results look encouraging

*A *study from Public Health England estimates elevated Delta-specific efficacies at preventing hospitalizations of 94%/96% after one/two Pfizer doses and 71%/92% after one/two AstraZeneca doses. Public Health England estimates lower efficacies at preventing symptomatic disease after two doses for Pfizer of 88% and 60% for AstraZeneca. Similarly, a new study from Canada also estimates an 87% efficacy of full Pfizer vaccinations to prevent symptomatic disease. The symptomatic efficacy, however, is lower after one dose and estimated at one-third for both Pfizer and AstraZeneca in the English study, and 56%/72% for Pfizer/Moderna in the Canadian study

Yesterday, Israel’s Health Ministry reported a 64% effectiveness of the Pfizer vaccine in preventing any infections and a 93% effectiveness in preventing hospitalizations. The 64% estimate likely corresponds to the effectiveness to prevent both asymptomatic and symptomatic infections while the studies from England and Canada and clinical trials assess symptomatic infections. Taken at face value, these headline numbers suggest a reduced ability of the Pfizer vaccine to stop the transmission of Delta infections relative to previously dominant strains, although the “additional” infections are more likely to be asymptomatic.

Finally, in vitro studies from Moderna and Johnson & Johnson demonstrate their ability to neutralize the Delta variant with neutralizing titers that were lower compared to the ancestral strain but higher than for the Beta variant (first identified in South Africa), where high efficacy against severe disease was clinically demonstrated.

*Q.* How effective are the Eastern vaccines against the Delta variant?

*A.* Although data remain very limited, Chinese and Russian expert commentary and clinical trial results from India’s Bharat Biotech suggest that the Sinopharm, Sputnik V, and Bharat Biotech vaccines provide solid protection against severe disease.

*Q.* What about Delta’s impact on reinfection risk?

*A. *Although the data are particularly limited, research and experts suggest that prior infections continue to provide some protection against Delta, especially against severe disease.

*Q.* The UK is experiencing a surge in infections although hospitalizations and especially fatalities remain relatively low (Exhibit 2). What drives this “decoupling” and will it continue?

*A.* This mostly reflects the concentration of new infections among younger individuals but also a stronger vaccine protection against hospitalizations than against infections (especially for AstraZeneca). We therefore expect this decoupling to continue.









*Q.* Are infections and hospitalizations/fatalities also “decoupling” outside of the UK?

*A. *Most other economies with high vaccination rates and Delta outbreaks are also experiencing this decoupling, although it is particularly pronounced in the UK. We expect hospitalizations to remain relatively low in high vaccination countries.

*Q.* Does the virus still matter for activity in North America and Europe if hospitalizations stay low?

*A.* Yes. The virus GDP drag should, however, be much diminished and reflects travel restrictions, consumer risk aversion, and lingering softness in labor supply

*Q.* Twenty-two US states have vaccinated less than half of their populations (Exhibit 11) and infections are rising rapidly in several low vaccination states. Do we not expect sharp Delta-induced rises in hospitalizations and substantial economic damage in these states too?





*A. *While hospitalizations have already picked up in Arkansas, Missouri, and Nevada and are likely to increase further, we expect relatively limited economic damage for three reasons. First, higher elderly vaccination rates should limit the increase in hospitalizations (Exhibit 11). Second, the generally higher immunity rates from prior infections in these states should also limit the increase in hospitalizations (Exhibit 12, left panel and appendix). Third, the virus sensitivity of economic activity tends to be lower in low vaccination states (Exhibit 12, right panel).





*Q.* The Delta variant has raised the theoretical bar to achieve herd immunity to probably at least 85% of the population. Does vaccine hesitancy imply that countries will never approach such high immunity levels?

*A. *Not necessarily, and many medical experts believe the coronavirus will eventually turn from a pandemic to an endemic stage. The Delta variant likely implies higher ultimate vaccination rates (and immunity rates). In fact, further outbreaks appear to be sharply boosting demand in several countries, including the US, China, Australia, Israel, and especially Portugal (Exhibit 13).





* * *

_Source: Goldman Sachs_


----------



## Melensdad

Lots of scary news about the Delta/Indian variant of Covid.  And while cases are climbing it should be noted that deaths are NOT going up with the cases.  

Seems to me the bad thing about Covid is that it is still disrupting normal healthcare, it is delaying cancer treatment, delaying surgeries and causing other health issues.  









						U.K., Spain see COVID case spikes, but deaths stay flat
					

Apparent high rates of transmission have not been accompanied by surge in fatalities.




					justthenews.com
				





U.K., Spain see COVID case spikes, but deaths stay flat​_Apparent high rates of transmission have not been accompanied by surge in fatalities._​Recent spikes of positive COVID-19 tests in the United Kingdom and Spain have raised concerns about the virus’ spread in those countries, but deaths there have remained flat relative to earlier rises alongside case spikes.​​Spain began what has become a sharp spike in cases in late June, jumping to roughly the same levels the country had in early February, yet recorded deaths have continued to decline over that time.​​The U.K. has been on an upswing for even longer, with its late rise in cases beginning in early June. Yet deaths there, while rising very slightly, have remained effectively flat compared to earlier waves.​​The U.K. has fully vaccinated just over half of its population, while Spain has injected just over 40% of its own.​​Worldwide confirmed cases have been increasing since roughly mid-June.​


----------



## Ceee

Pfizer says it is developing a Covid booster shot to target the highly transmissible delta variant
					

Clinical studies could begin as early as August, subject to regulatory approvals, Pfizer says.




					www.cnbc.com
				




I sure hope that this isn't going to be necessary.  


Melensdad said:


> the bad thing about Covid is that it is still disrupting normal healthcare, it is delaying cancer treatment, delaying surgeriesI


I agree with that.  Cancer treatment is a very time sensitive thing.


----------



## Melensdad

Ceee said:


> Pfizer says it is developing a Covid booster shot to target the highly transmissible delta variant
> 
> 
> Clinical studies could begin as early as August, subject to regulatory approvals, Pfizer says.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I sure hope that this isn't going to be necessary.


At this point I'd bet that Covid becomes a seasonal inconvenience like the Flu.  With variants floating around at some point we will need boosters if we want to stay protected from the disease.  Perhaps not every year, but possibly every few years.  And perhaps only for the most vulnerable in the population.


----------



## mla2ofus

When is the rest of the world going to hold china accountable for this??


----------



## Melensdad

mla2ofus said:


> When is the rest of the world going to hold china accountable for this??


They are too busy blaming us for not giving them free vaccines.


----------



## austonte

Melensdad said:


> I love this movie!
> 
> 
> View attachment 138450


Damn this COVID never gets tired of mutating. I'm so sick of it.


----------



## Melensdad

austonte said:


> Damn this COVID never gets tired of mutating. I'm so sick of it.


Pretty much all diseases mutate all the time.  That is why the seasonal flu shot doesn't always work very well.  Flu, which is very different than Covid in many ways, mutates as it moves around the world and is worse in the fall/winter months in the northern hemisphere.  Covid will very likely become a seasonal problem in the same way as it returns in the fall of the year.

Mass vaccinations of the WORLD population could eventually get rid of it.  But that is not a likely scenario.  So more likely we will be offered a seasonal shot.  It's also likely that the shot may only be needed every few years, not annually, as the mutations are not too different from the original strain.  

We know that the DELTA/Indian variant spreads faster, but it also seems to be LESS deadly.  

We also know that the DELTA/Indian variant seems to managed well by the Pfizer and the Moderna vaccines.  

Those who have chosen to be vaccinated may still get Covid, but even older/sicker people may not, _*if vaccinated*_, end up in the hospital or feel very sick if they get Covid.


----------



## Melensdad

Media is lying about Covid...full story at link, this is Part 1 of a 3 part post: 









						Mainstream Media is Wrong: Vaccine Hesitancy is Not Highest Among Republican Men and Trump Isn't to Blame
					

CDC reports young, healthy people are not getting the COVID shot




					www.emilypostnews.com
				




Mainstream Media Is Wrong: Vaccine Hesitancy Is Not Highest Among Republican Men And Trump Isn't To Blame​_Authored by Emily Miller via Emily Post News,_

The media elite has been telling us for months that the vaccine hesitancy rate is highest among Republicans, in particular, the men. The press alleges that the MAGA-hat-wearing-uneducated-conspiracy-theorists GOP are to blame for the continuing pandemic. But, guess what?* The media lied. It’s young, healthy people who don't want to get vaccinated.*





After six month of shots in arms, the vaccine hesitancy can be measured largely by who has not gotten one yet. The Centers for Disease Control (CDC) reported recently that:



> _Vaccination coverage and intent among adults are lowest among those aged 18–39 years._


The official data shows that, from March to May, *one quarter of these young adults said they were unsure about getting vaccinated and another quarter said they will not get it*

The CDC doesn’t even mention political affiliation as a factor. *Among the 18 to 39-year-olds, the rates were lowest for those who were younger, black, poorer, less educated, uninsured and living outside metropolitan areas. *





However, the media elite have not let these facts stand in the way of a good story.  *To continue the blame-the-Republicans narrative, the press use public opinion polls as a basis of their reports*. That’s how we’re still seeing so many stories on Republican hesitancy despite the CDC saying it’s not the case.

The Washington Post is Obsessed​Look at what one outlet — _The Washington Pos_t — has published in just the past week:



> HEADLINE: The GOP’s very stubborn vaccine skepticism





> HEADLINE:  A third of White conservatives refuse to get vaccinated — a refusal shown in polling and the real world





> HEADLINE:  We are in a race’: GOP governors implore residents to overcome vaccine hesitancy as delta variant rises


_The Post_ even did its own poll to push this narrative more.



> HEADLINE: Post-ABC poll: Biden earns high marks for handling the pandemic, but many Republicans resist vaccination.


The editors at _The Pos_t don’t see their own bias in the news side. But the opinion side was so determined to push this false narrative that it published two op-eds on the topic -- one from the left and the sorta-kinda right.



> Opinion by Marc Thiessen: If Biden wants to convince the vaccine hesitant, give Trump credit for the vaccines





> Opinion by Max Boot: Republicans are preventing America from reaching Biden’s vaccination goal


The obsession by the Post editors in making sure readers blame Republicans for any more COVID deaths is just one tiny glimpse into the larger problem with the media pushing this false narrative.

How the Media Works​Going through the media stories about Republicans who supposedly won’t get vaccinated, there’s a clear pattern.

1) The outlet cites a public opinion poll, never the CDC statistics.​2) The reporter gets quotes from random “expert'“ who says the poll proves the GOP is the problem with ending the pandemic.​3) The journalist finds a twist to blame all this on Pres. Donald Trump.​



Of course it benefits Pres. Joe Biden to blame the lack of vaccinations on Republicans and Donald Trump because otherwise he would take the hit.

Since Democrats have retaken the White House, the taxpayer-funded media outlets (VOA, NPR, PBS) have been cleared out of Republicans so that the liberals who report and produce in these outlets can return to their agenda.

So, look what the Voice of America is airing all over the world: “Unvaccinated Americans Whiter, More Republican Than Vaccinated.” The story follows the patterns of corporate media.


----------



## Melensdad

Part 2:


1) Cite a poll, not stats​Kaiser Family Foundation and never mention the CDC.

2) Get quotes to say the poll shows Republicans are the bad guys​In this case, the expert is just the head of the polling company: Liz Hamel, director of Kaiser Family Foundation's Public Opinion and Survey Research

3) Blame Trump​In this story, they did it by quoting Hamel as the expert, like this:



> For example, she said, "believing that the media has exaggerated the seriousness of the pandemic — that's something that we heard President Trump saying when he was in office. It's something that Republicans are more likely to agree with than Democrats. And people who believe that the pandemic has been exaggerated are much less likely to say they want to get the vaccine."


The New York Times is Ground Zero​How did we get to this common knowledge that Republican men are the biggest holdouts of the COVID vaccine in the US? To answer that, we need to go back to March 2021 when people under 65-years old were first getting vaccinated and could provide real world data. Up to that point, the public opinion polls from as far back as June 2020 were hypothetical about getting a vaccine.

_The The New York Times_ often sets the narrative for the rest of the media, especially TV news.  This was the story in NYT on March 15:



> HEADLINE: As Biden Confronts Vaccine Hesitancy, Republicans Are a Particular Challenge


_The Times_ seems to have started the system for how to falsely claim Republicans are the most vaccine hesitant.

1) Cite poll, not stats—​The evidence for the GOP being a “particular challenge” was a poll done by CBS News that the Times reported said one-third of Republicans would not be vaccinated compared with 10 percent of Democrats. That number is accurate, but _The Times_didn’t put it in perspective.

Overall, 22 percent of the people in the CBS poll said they will not get the vaccine, so “one-third” is not that big of a difference. (CBS said it “weighted” the results but didn’t publish the original numbers to show how.)





If _The New York Times _reporters had looked at the poll independently of the conclusion by CBS News, they might have looked at other factors. The age difference in the poll shows young people were above average for vaccine hesitancy — just as significant of a divider as party affiliation.

*Those under 30 years old who said they won’t get a vaccine were 26 percent compared to only 15 percent over 65 years old.* The divide is just as big as party affiliation when you look at actual hesitancy, people who are not sure. That is split 31 percent of young people and only 10 percent of older people. 

If the story had instead concluded that age was the most important factor, then this NYT story in March would match the facts now from CDC that show young people are not getting vaccinated. Instead, just as the vaccine first became available for people under 65-years-old, _The Times_ concluded this: 



> The administration is seeking help in urging Republicans to get inoculated. But the president said he was not sure how much value there was in enlisting his predecessor.


2) Expert says poll proves Republicans are the problem​_The Times_ refers to a reporter asking Pres. Biden about the alleged Republican vaccine problem at a press conference.



> REPORTER:   Should President Donald Trump help promote the vaccine among skeptics, sir, especially those Republicans who say they’re not willing to take it?
> THE PRESIDENT:  I’m hearing a lot of reports from serious reporters like you saying that.  I discussed it with my team, and they say the thing that has more impact than anything Trump would say to the MAGA folks is what the local doctor, what the local preachers, what the local people in the community say.


Notice how Biden legitimizes the blame-Republicans theory by saying it’s coming from “serious reporters like you.” He never said it’s true or factual because there’s no evidence of it. The media and the Biden White House have the same agenda.

3) Blame Trump​This was a layup for Biden since the reporter did it for him. _The Times_ just piled on by saying Trump is to blame because he got his vaccine “in secret.”

Media Follows _The New York Times_​As I wrote earlier, the TV networks generally take _The New York Times_ stories and put them to video. Since _The Time_s used a poll from CBS to blame Republicans, CBS then used someone else’s poll to continue the hit job. This story is from April 7:



> HEADLINE: Many Republican men are hesitant to get coronavirus vaccine: "I don't think it's necessary"


CBS followed the pattern to establish the narrative.

1) Cite poll​They cited this poll without linking to it:



> A recent Marist poll in partnership with NPR and PBS NewsHour found 49% of Republican men said they would not take the vaccine when it's available to them.


2) Quotes to back up the poll as fact​CBS interviewed someone named Steve Mitchell who has “been polling Republicans in the state of Michigan for more than 30 years.” It’s a stretch to interview one guy in one state to assess the entire country, but that was how CBS could make this story stick.

Then CBS interviewed one guy in Michigan named Chris Howe who has no expertise or public position but just described as a “conservative living in Clarkston, Michigan, where he runs his own hardwood flooring business.” The point of using Howe is to get the juicy headline. But it is taken totally out of context.

Howe said he already had COVID so has the antibodies. The headline reads “I don’t think it’s necessary,” and it leaves out the second part of what Howe said: “"I have gotten it and I have not died." Of course it’s not necessary if you have natural immunity. But that doesn’t fit the narrative of this story.

3) Blame Trump​This story doesn’t blame Trump directly, but says this :



> In an interview with Fox News, former President Donald Trump said that he's taken the vaccine. "It's a great vaccine. It's a safe vaccine. It's something that works" he said.


Cable TV Blaming Republicans​A couple weeks later, CNN does a report with this headline “Vaccine hesitancy among Republicans emerges as Biden's next big challenge.” It says:



> And the hurdles that lie ahead for President Joe Biden in persuading Americans who did not vote for him to take the vaccine are coming into sharper focus as resistance among Republicans, White evangelicals and rural voters persists even though vaccines are now widely available.


CNN is able to write this as fact by doing the standard three steps to get to blame Trump.


----------



## Melensdad

And finally Part 3:



1) Cite a poll, not hard numbers​Even though this story was produced after people under 65-years-old started getting vaccinated, CNN did not use any actual statistics from the CDC. Instead it used a Monmouth poll that asks people if they got the shot. CNN was thus able to report that: “a stunning 43% of Republicans said they would likely never get the vaccine.”

2) Expert quotes to back up the poll​CNN is of course totally in the tank for Biden, so it doesn’t try to back up the poll but instead uses administration officials to allegedly prove that Republicans not getting vaccinated will kill people. CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky is cited:



> "Because this virus is an opportunist, we anticipate that the areas of lightest vaccine coverage now might be where the virus strikes next." She added that with only modest protection for the oldest people within the US population, "many more deaths" could ensue.


3) Blame Trump​CNN’s business model is talk about how bad Trump is 24/7. So it’s not a surprise that the report on vaccine hesitancy just blames Trump without even a connection. The report says:



> Trump has also seemed uninterested in helping to combat vaccine hesitancy even as some have urged him to do a public service announcement and greater publicity to encourage his supporters to get vaccinated. Trump did not get his vaccine on camera like other former US presidents.


CNN concluded— without any facts— that Trump is to blame for alleged Republicans holdouts who are stopping our country from ending the pandemic.



> It remains unclear whether Trump will weigh in to help the Biden administration address vaccine skepticism, but Biden needs to find a way to get the message out to Trump's base that vaccines are safe, and in fact, necessary, for America to beat the virus.


Media Bias Seeps Into Science​The most disconcerting of all _The New York Times_ followers is the supposedly data-based journal “Scientific American.” The headline in its June issue is “Do Republicans Mistrust Science?" Here’s how it explained this totally non-scientific theory.

..... [click here to read the rest of the investigation]


----------



## austonte

Melensdad said:


> Pretty much all diseases mutate all the time.  That is why the seasonal flu shot doesn't always work very well.  Flu, which is very different than Covid in many ways, mutates as it moves around the world and is worse in the fall/winter months in the northern hemisphere.  Covid will very likely become a seasonal problem in the same way as it returns in the fall of the year.
> 
> Mass vaccinations of the WORLD population could eventually get rid of it.  But that is not a likely scenario.  So more likely we will be offered a seasonal shot.  It's also likely that the shot may only be needed every few years, not annually, as the mutations are not too different from the original strain.
> 
> We know that the DELTA/Indian variant spreads faster, but it also seems to be LESS deadly.
> 
> We also know that the DELTA/Indian variant seems to managed well by the Pfizer and the Moderna vaccines.
> 
> Those who have chosen to be vaccinated may still get Covid, but even older/sicker people may not, _*if vaccinated*_, end up in the hospital or feel very sick if they get Covid.


Thank God, I'm already vaccinated. So many people close to me have died last year and earlier this year that it really got me depressed.


----------



## Melensdad

austonte said:


> Thank God, I'm already vaccinated. So many people close to me have died last year and earlier this year that it really got me depressed.


I got vaccinated in January/February and I think that for any high risk individual, vaccination makes a lot of sense.


----------



## Melensdad

For those of us, who are at risk (_obese, diabetic, pulmonary issues, high blood pressure, etc_), or older (_over age 55_) and who have been vaccinated, we have VERY LITTLE TO FEAR from the Delta/Indian variant of covid.

For those folks who are younger, healthy and vaccinated, they have essentially NOTHING to fear from the Delta/Indian variant of covid.

But the folks who are not vaccinated, or who have recovered and hold natural immunity, they are at some risk.  Delta seems to be more infectious but not more deadly.  Being more infectious it means there will be more cases of younger/healthier people going into hospitals.  There will be more cases of LONG COVID, which does not seem to be related to either age or intensity of the disease.  









						Coronavirus cases in the U.S. double over three weeks
					

A lagging vaccination rate and the spread of the delta variant have some health professionals worried about what's to come




					justthenews.com
				




Coronavirus cases in the U.S. double over three weeks​A lagging vaccination rate and the spread of the delta variant have some health professionals worried about what's to come​Covid-19 case numbers are on the rise again in the U.S., following months of significant decline.​​*New case figures have doubled per day over the past several weeks due primarily to the more contagious delta variant, as well as stalled vaccination rates across the country.*​​On Monday, confirmed infections climbed to an average of 23,600, doubling the June 23 figure, which was 11,300, according to Johns Hopkins University data.​​ *Case numbers have reportedly shot up in all states except South Dakota and Maine.*​​Despite the jump in the numbers, cases remain well below their peak of close to a quarter-million a day in January. And daily death rates remain thousands below the 3,400-plus Americans dying each day during the winter. ​​*Mississippi, the state with the lowest vaccination rate nationally, has experienced a 150% rise in hospitalizations over the past three weeks.*​​Louisiana's vaccination rate more than 15 percentage points below the national average of 55.6%., and authorities in New Orleans say they will likely extend virus-mitigation efforts at large venues for large gatherings. ​​Dr. James Lawler, of the Global Center for Health Security at the University of Nebraska Medical Center in Omaha, told the Associated Press, "I think people have no clue what's about to hit us," when it comes to the delta variant. ​​"The descriptions from regions of the world where the delta variant has taken hold and become the predominant virus are pictures of ICUs full of 30-year-olds," he said, adding that re-imposing mask mandates and limited gatherings may help curb the spread of the variant. ​


----------



## austonte

Melensdad said:


> For those of us, who are at risk (_obese, diabetic, pulmonary issues, high blood pressure, etc_), or older (_over age 55_) and who have been vaccinated, we have VERY LITTLE TO FEAR from the Delta/Indian variant of covid.
> 
> For those folks who are younger, healthy and vaccinated, they have essentially NOTHING to fear from the Delta/Indian variant of covid.
> 
> But the folks who are not vaccinated, or who have recovered and hold natural immunity, they are at some risk.  Delta seems to be more infectious but not more deadly.  Being more infectious it means there will be more cases of younger/healthier people going into hospitals.  There will be more cases of LONG COVID, which does not seem to be related to either age or intensity of the disease.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coronavirus cases in the U.S. double over three weeks
> 
> 
> A lagging vaccination rate and the spread of the delta variant have some health professionals worried about what's to come
> 
> 
> 
> 
> justthenews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coronavirus cases in the U.S. double over three weeks​A lagging vaccination rate and the spread of the delta variant have some health professionals worried about what's to come​Covid-19 case numbers are on the rise again in the U.S., following months of significant decline.​​*New case figures have doubled per day over the past several weeks due primarily to the more contagious delta variant, as well as stalled vaccination rates across the country.*​​On Monday, confirmed infections climbed to an average of 23,600, doubling the June 23 figure, which was 11,300, according to Johns Hopkins University data.​​ *Case numbers have reportedly shot up in all states except South Dakota and Maine.*​​Despite the jump in the numbers, cases remain well below their peak of close to a quarter-million a day in January. And daily death rates remain thousands below the 3,400-plus Americans dying each day during the winter. ​​*Mississippi, the state with the lowest vaccination rate nationally, has experienced a 150% rise in hospitalizations over the past three weeks.*​​Louisiana's vaccination rate more than 15 percentage points below the national average of 55.6%., and authorities in New Orleans say they will likely extend virus-mitigation efforts at large venues for large gatherings. ​​Dr. James Lawler, of the Global Center for Health Security at the University of Nebraska Medical Center in Omaha, told the Associated Press, "I think people have no clue what's about to hit us," when it comes to the delta variant. ​​"The descriptions from regions of the world where the delta variant has taken hold and become the predominant virus are pictures of ICUs full of 30-year-olds," he said, adding that re-imposing mask mandates and limited gatherings may help curb the spread of the variant. ​



I hope they come up with COVID19 vaccines for kids below 12. I am still scared of bringing my kids to crowded places. My kids still wear masks especially indoors. The DELTA variant sounds terrifying.


----------



## Melensdad

austonte said:


> I hope they come up with COVID19 vaccines for kids below 12. I am still scared of bringing my kids to crowded places. My kids still wear masks especially indoors. The DELTA variant sounds terrifying.


They are developing vaccines for kids.  Largely they are unnecessary.

Children under 18 basically do not die from this disease.  Yes, a few have, but very few.  And in those rare cases they generally had other conditions that exacerbated the problem.  The kids who get this tend to NOT feel sick, look sick, or act sick.  They are generally asymptomatic.  Even the Delta/Indian variant does not seem to make young people sick. 

Out of the NEARLY 100,000,000 of residents in the USA under the age of 18, only 331 of them have died. 

Do not scare your kids.  Do not be afraid for your kids.  

Let your kids be kids.  In fact encourage them to be kids and go play and have fun.

If we believe the science there is literally nothing to worry about if you have young children and there is literally nothing for them to worry about.  The much greater harm to them will come from fear, isolation, lack of socialization and falling behind in school.  

This data is *current through July 7* of this year from STATISTICA. 






Now as for even getting sick from Covid, the numbers are very very low.  *This data is from the CDC.* If you look at the age brackets, the "control group" is the 18-29 year old bracket. It is current through June 24 of this year.

The younger age brackets show statistically insignificant rates of getting infected. 
They show statistically insignificant rates of hospitalization.
They show statistically insignificant rates of death. 

Essentially they have NOTHING to fear or worry about. 

Unless your kids are morbidly obese with another additional condition like serious lung conditions, heart conditions or uncontrolled diabetes.  But even then, if they have all those things, their risks are still minimal.


----------



## Melensdad

I would like to add some more information about the DELTA/Indian variant.

In the U.K. the DELTA variant is 98.7% of all Covid cases.  And Covid is increasing in the U.K.  Look at these graphics from the N.H.S. which compare the ALPHA variant surge in the fall of 2020 to the DELTA variant in the current surge.  You will notice that far fewer people end up in the hospital, far fewer people die.  

N.H.S. data is also showing that ethnic minorities are being hit harder by the DELTA variant.  

N.H.S. data is showing that people who do end up in the hospital are actually LESS sick with the DELTA than those who previously were in the hospital with the ALPHA variant.





The wonderful thing about watching what is happening in England/Scotland/Wales is that they experiencing today what North America will experience in the next few months.  

We can expect more cases, especially in areas with low vaccination rates.  
We can expect more hospitalizations, but less than we had in the previous Alpha peak.
We can expect more deaths, but far-far less than we had in the previous Alpha peak.


As Saint Pope John Paul II was known to say: * BE NOT AFRAID*

Now keep in mind that I am a strong vaccine proponent.  But I keep looking at the data.  So going back to what St Pope JPII said, I would say that* if you are vaccinated then go live your life.  

If you are un-vaccinated and are 17 years old or younger, then go live your life.*  In fact, if you are at least 18 but under 30 years old, and un-vaccinated, then you are still at minimal risk of getting seriously ill from the Delta variant.

*If you are un-vaccinated and you are in any of the high risk groups then you should probably get vaccinated unless you are allergic to the vaccines.*

If you are still afraid for yourself or your children after seeing the government data, then I'd suggest that you should look into taking Vitamin D suppliments and consider those for your children as well, based on your research.  My family currently takes a Vitamin D supplement with 5000iu capsules every day.  D3 is known to reduce covid severity and spread, it is cheap and easily accessible at virtually every supermarket, Amazon, Walgreens, Rite-Aid, CVS and big box stores.  It takes time to build up in your system so you want to take it daily if you decide you want to take it.


----------



## m1west

Its doing generally what all CORONA virus mutations do, get more contagious and weaker over time.


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> Its doing generally what all CORONA virus mutations do, get more contagious and weaker over time.


That seems to be a reasonable assessment of what is happening.

Because it is more contagious, we will see more hospitalizations and that stresses the rest of the medical system.  So because of covid spread in MANY AREAS of the country, we will continue to see elective but necessary surgeries delayed, we will delayed diagnosis of heart disease, lung diseases and cancers, leading to unnecessary deaths due to other causes than Covid, but realistically because of Covid's effect on the medical systems.

It should be noted that the areas with the highest current spread are the areas with lower vaccination rates, higher poverty, rural areas.  Vaccine hesitancy seems to be high among minorities and poor, especially outside the urban areas where hospitals smaller and specialty care is often sparse.


----------



## Melensdad

I'm vaccinated.  By my choice.  But I don't want anyone coming to my house to check up on me.  Show me where the government has the authority to send people door to door.


----------



## mla2ofus

They got a taste of control in '20 and now they don't want to let it go!! Marxists all!!


----------



## m1west

This is out 110# American bulldog, Smiley. He is our yard greeter. I finally figured out how to fix stupid.


----------



## Esco

That Delta is slightly worrying. 
Its spreading like wildfire in the UK and vaccines arent as effective against them









						More than 1,000 Israelis test positive for COVID
					

PM Bennett: Vaccine ‘significantly less’ effective against the Delta variant




					www.jpost.com


----------



## Melensdad

Esco said:


> That Delta is slightly worrying.
> Its spreading like wildfire in the UK and vaccines arent as effective against them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More than 1,000 Israelis test positive for COVID
> 
> 
> PM Bennett: Vaccine ‘significantly less’ effective against the Delta variant
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jpost.com


It is true the vaccines are less effective at preventing someone from getting the DELTA/Indian variant, however, the vaccines are _still hugely effective at preventing serious disease and reducing hospitalization or death_.  So while you may get the Delta/Indian variant, you likely will NOT get particularly sick from it if you have had 2 doses of the vaccines.  

The mRNA vaccines seem to be somewhat more effective than the traditional vaccines the the Oxford/AstraZenica, but all of them seem to be doing a very good job.


----------



## Esco

Melensdad said:


> It is true the vaccines are less effective at preventing someone from getting the DELTA/Indian variant, however, the vaccines are _still hugely effective at preventing serious disease and reducing hospitalization or death_.  So while you may get the Delta/Indian variant, you likely will NOT get particularly sick from it if you have had 2 doses of the vaccines.
> 
> The mRNA vaccines seem to be somewhat more effective than the traditional vaccines the the Oxford/AstraZenica, but all of them seem to be doing a very good job.


I think maybe thats why the UK is getting hit so hard, most of their population got the OAZ vaccine, not the other ones


----------



## Melensdad

Esco said:


> I think maybe thats why the UK is getting hit so hard, most of their population got the OAZ vaccine, not the other ones


I think the reason that the UK is getting hit so hard is because they are an island, reasonably confined, with lots of internal travel and commingling of the population.  They are simply ahead of the curve and a precursor to what will happen in other areas of the world.  The USA is running a couple months behind the UK so it is very likely that the US will see similar spikes early September.

BUT ... "hit so hard" is actually a relative thing.  There are 67,880,000 people living in the UK and a total of 577,000 are estimated to have gotten Covid.  So since this started almost a year and a half ago, a grand total of 8.5% of the entire UK population has gotten Covid.  Over 90% of the deaths occurred in the "most vulnerable" parts of the population, including the elderly.  Total UK deaths are estimated to be roughly 41,000.  Not a small number, but actually tiny as a percentage of the population. 

Realistically Covid will affect the unvaccinated areas the hardest and the US should follow a pattern similar to the UK.  Statistically the higher vaccinated area will also be hit with breakthrough cases but those cases will be mild and not fatal.

Look several posts up this thread, you can see the DELTA variant's affects in the UK, using the NHS graphs.  Cases are going up in a steep incline, hospitalizations are climbing slower and deaths are barely climbing, nearly decoupled from the disease.

Also realize that as scary as this disease is portrayed to be, we now know _(unlike a year ago)_ who the risk groups are for serious complications.  We know the vast majority of those who have serious cases are deficient in Vitamin D, so simply taking an inexpensive daily Vitamin D3 supplement can dramatically reduce chances of complications.  We also know that *obesity *is a primary risk factor for complications as are pulimary diseases, uncontrolled high blood pressure, diabetes, autoimmune disorders, etc.

A reasonably healthy human of pretty much any age, who is vaccinated, has little to fear.  Less so if they take a Vitamin D3 supplement.

A reasonably healthy human, under the age of 55, who is *NOT* vaccinated, still doesn't have too much to fear, since roughly 95% of the people who get Covid never end up in the hospital, but unvaccinated people probably would be very wise to take daily Vitamin D3 supplements.

I'm 60, vaccinated (_Moderna 2 shots_) with a hereditary autoimmune disease, taking immunosuppressive drugs + 5000iu of D3 daily, but otherwise generally healthy and I am not living in any fear of Covid.


----------



## Esco

These are all the vitamins and minerals I take daily, and I rarely get sick anymore

VITAMIN A (BETA-CAROTENE) 25,000 IU DAILY
VITAMIN B-COMPLEX 100 MG DAILY
VITAMIN C (CALCIUM ASCORBATE) 1,000 MG DAILY
VITAMIN D 1,000 IU DAILY
VITAMIN E (MIXED TOCOPHEROLS) 400 IU DAILY

MAGNESIUM 300 MG DAILY
CALCIUM 500 MG DAILY
ZINC 25 MG DAILY
SELENIUM 100 MICROGRAMS DAILY
CHROMIUM 200 MICROGRAMS DAILY
IRON 10 MG DAILY


----------



## Melensdad

Esco said:


> These are all the vitamins and minerals I take daily, and I rarely get sick anymore
> 
> VITAMIN A (BETA-CAROTENE) 25,000 IU DAILY
> VITAMIN B-COMPLEX 100 MG DAILY
> VITAMIN C (CALCIUM ASCORBATE) 1,000 MG DAILY
> VITAMIN D 1,000 IU DAILY
> VITAMIN E (MIXED TOCOPHEROLS) 400 IU DAILY
> 
> MAGNESIUM 300 MG DAILY
> CALCIUM 500 MG DAILY
> ZINC 25 MG DAILY
> SELENIUM 100 MICROGRAMS DAILY
> CHROMIUM 200 MICROGRAMS DAILY
> IRON 10 MG DAILY


Have you had your blood tested to make sure your levels are good.  Long term Zinc use can be harmful.  Depending upon you size/weight/age/activity level, the D may be too low to offer much help for Covid



------------------------ < O > ------------------------

While the US/Canadian border remains closed, Europe is starting to open up for tourism.

But all is not rosy in France, they are requiring some sort of a digital Covid passport to enter a bar or restaurant.  And apparently French citizens (subjects) may face jail time for violating their nations dictates.  

FULL STORY AT THIS LINK --> https://www.france24.com/en/europe/...-covid-test-for-some-unvaccinated-eu-arrivals


*France will not require VACCINATED visitors to show a 'negative' test upon entry into the nation*.​​France said Saturday it would require people not fully vaccinated and arriving from some European countries to show a negative Covid test taken within the previous 24 hours.​​Arrivals from the United Kingdom, Spain, Portugal, Cyprus, Greece and the Netherlands will be subject to the new rule, which comes into effect at midnight Saturday into Sunday, Prime Minsiter Jean Castexsaid in a statement.​​To date, people arriving from the United Kingdom are required to show a negative test taken within the past 48 hours.​​Arrivals from Spain, Portugal, Cyprus, the Netherlands and Greece have had to show tests taken within 72 hours.​But Castex said that people who are fully vaccinated with a jab recognised by the European Medicines Agency—Pfizer/BioNTech, Moderna, AstraZeneca or Johnson & Johnson—will not be required to show a test.​​The statement said the exemption was in place because *“vaccines are effective against the virus, and in particular its variant Delta”.*​


----------



## Esco

Melensdad said:


> Have you had your blood tested to make sure your levels are good.  Long term Zinc use can be harmful.  Depending upon you size/weight/age/activity level, the D may be too low to offer much help for Covid


I've been taking this regiment since I was 29.  Never had any problems with my blood test.
Its actually the iron you have to worry about, the body loves to store iron and is not very efficient in expelling it.

My regiment has also stopped my aging process.  I'm 55 yrs old but I look about 30 yrs old


----------



## Melensdad

austonte said:


> I hope they come up with COVID19 vaccines for kids below 12. I am still scared of bringing my kids to crowded places. My kids still wear masks especially indoors. The DELTA variant sounds terrifying.


Here is what is happening in England/Scotland/Wales/Ireland right now, combined in 1 graph.

The vaccines they used included the Oxford/AstraZenica, Pfizer and Moderna.  They may have also used some of the Johnson & Johnson/BioNtech, but I'm not certain of that 4th vaccine.  The OX/AZ vaccine is not used in the USA, reports show it is less effective than the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, and compares well against the J&J/BioNtech.

You will notice that Delta cases are spiking.  You will notice that there is minimal rise in hospitalizations or deaths from Delta, largely because the UK has so many vaccinated people.  Basically, in the UK the "high risk" members of the population have either been vaccinated or died.  The unvaccinated people are generally "low risk" adults or children, who have always had minimal risk.

We can ESTIMATE that the USA will follow a similar path, at least in the states and areas were vaccination rates are similar to the rates in the UK.  We know that the minority and poor populations here in the US seem to have vaccine hesitancy, especially in rural areas.  The highest rates of non-vaccination seem to be in younger African Americans in rural areas.






It should be noted that DELTA cases in the USA are climbing.  Right now DELTA makes up about 70% of the new cases.  And if you look at US hospital data, while Covid cases are still low, 97% of the new US hospitalizations are Unvaccinated people, 3% are vaccinated.  

If you break that data down further, the 3% who are vaccinated and get the Delta/Indian variant of Covid, most of those have co-morbidities.

Younger ADULTS, who are not vaccinated, make up the majority of the new hospitalizations.


----------



## Esco

The US also has a lot more people who refuse the vaccine on conspiracy/religious grounds than the UK does


----------



## Melensdad

Esco said:


> The US also has a lot more people who refuse the vaccine on conspiracy/religious grounds than the UK does


Do you have actual proof of that?  And are you talking about % of population or absolute numbers?  I know there is actually a fairly large group of anti-vax people in England, and actually was talking with one today who is very vocal, very public and spreads anti-vax data daily.









						Revealed: Anti-vaxxers' plans to undermine trust in Covid-19 vaccine | ITV News
					

A report by the Center for Countering Digital Hate outlines anti-vaxxers’ plan to spread distrust about the Covid vaccine. | ITV National News




					www.itv.com
				






Here in the US the Anti-Vax democratic group has been, statistically, over-hyped to the point that it is almost fake news.  Hate to use that term.   Young and healthy people are the most likely to NOT get vaccinated.   The _"rural white Trump supporters"_ that the media hypes for vaccine hesitancy are actually not nearly as large a group as the media would have you think.  There is proof of that early in this thread, with citations to specific articles and evidence.









						Mainstream Media is Wrong: Vaccine Hesitancy is Not Highest Among Republican Men and Trump Isn't to Blame
					

CDC reports young, healthy people are not getting the COVID shot




					www.emilypostnews.com


----------



## Esco

Melensdad said:


> Do you have actual proof of that?  And are you talking about % of population or absolute numbers?  I know there is actually a fairly large group of anti-vax people in England, and actually was talking with one today who is very vocal, very public and spreads anti-vax data daily


No proof, but if you look at the stats the US seems to have hit a wall around 55% while the UK has hit their wall around  68%.
See link: https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

I could be wrong though, the next 6 months will give us better insight


----------



## Esco

I dont know if this article is true, but if it is it would explain why the US is lagging behind the UK









						20% of Americans believe microchips are inside COVID-19 vaccines - study
					

False content has been published on social media regarding the microchip theory, with many conspiracy theorists saying that COVID-19 is just a coverup to track people using the vaccines.




					www.jpost.com


----------



## Melensdad

Esco said:


> No proof, but if you look at the stats the US seems to have hit a wall around 55% while the UK has hit their wall around  68%.
> See link: https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations
> 
> I could be wrong though, the next 6 months will give us better insight


Those stats are correct but you attribute them to the conspiracy theory political fringe.  THAT is the part that is not factual.


----------



## Melensdad

Esco said:


> I dont know if this article is true, but if it is it would explain why the US is lagging behind the UK
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 20% of Americans believe microchips are inside COVID-19 vaccines - study
> 
> 
> False content has been published on social media regarding the microchip theory, with many conspiracy theorists saying that COVID-19 is just a coverup to track people using the vaccines.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jpost.com


You apparently assume that only exists in the US.  I gave you evidence it is very strong in the UK too


----------



## Esco

Melensdad said:


> Those stats are correct but you attribute them to the conspiracy theory political fringe.  THAT is the part that is not factual


Agreed, its only opinion


----------



## Esco

Melensdad said:


> You apparently assume that only exists in the US.  I gave you evidence it is very strong in the UK too


Nope, not saying it only exists in the US, I'm only saying its LESS prevalent in other parts of the world


----------



## Melensdad

Esco said:


> Nope, not saying it only exists in the US, I'm only saying its LESS prevalent in other parts of the world


And yet you have no evidence of that.  And I provided strong evidence that the UK has plenty of Anti-Vaxxers plus I provided evidence that refutes your claims about the US vaccine hesitant being part of a political or conspiracy group.  Please do yourself a favor and read the linked articles.  Follow the footnotes.


----------



## Melensdad

Got this from an Anti-Vaxx activist in the UK.  Full story at link:









						The Effects of Vitamin D and COVID-Related Outcomes
					

Do you know your vitamin D level? If not, getting your blood tested—and optimizing your levels—is one of ...




					www.theepochtimes.com
				




The Effects of Vitamin D and COVID-Related Outcomes​Do you know your vitamin D level? If not, getting your blood tested—and optimizing your levels—is one of the simplest and most straightforward steps you can take to improve your health, including in relation to COVID-19. Vitamin D, as an immunomodulator, is a perfect candidate for countering the immune dysregulation that’s common with COVID-19.​​As early as November 2020, it was known that there were striking differences in vitamin D status among people who had asymptomatic COVID-19 and those who became severely ill and required intensive care unit (ICU) care. In one study, 32.96 percent of those with asymptomatic cases were vitamin D deficient, compared to 96.82 percent of those who were admitted to the ICU for a severe case.​​COVID-19 patients who were deficient in this inexpensive and widely available vitamin had a higher inflammatory response and a greater fatality rate. The Indian study authors recommended “mass administration of vitamin D supplements to populations at risk for COVID-19,” in a study published in Scientific Reports, but this hasn’t happened, at least not in the United States...​​Vitamin D Therapy Reduces COVID’s Inflammatory Storm​Vitamin D has multiple actions on the immune system, including enhancing the production of antimicrobial peptides by immune cells, reducing damaging pro-inflammatory cytokines, and promoting the expression of anti-inflammatory cytokines. Cytokines are a group of proteins that your body uses to control inflammation... If the cytokine release spirals out of control, the resulting “cytokine storm” becomes dangerous and is closely tied to sepsis, which may be an important contributor to the death of COVID-19 patients.​​Many COVID-19 therapeutics are focused on viral elimination instead of modulating the hyperinflammation often seen in the disease. In fact, uncontrolled immune response has been suggested as a factor in disease severity, making immunomodulation “an attractive potential treatment strategy,” wrote researchers from Singapore in a study published in Nutrition.​​In one study published in Scientific Reports in May, researchers investigated the effects of Pulse D therapy—daily high-dose supplementation (60,000 IUs) of vitamin D—for eight to 10 days, in addition to standard therapy, for COVID-19 patients deficient in vitamin D. Vitamin D levels increased significantly in the vitamin D group—from 16 ng/ml to 89 ng/ml—while inflammatory markers significantly decreased, without any side effects...​​Vitamin D3 Reduces COVID-19 Deaths, ICU Admissions​Another group of researchers in Spain gave vitamin D3 (calcifediol) to patients admitted to the COVID-19 wards of Barcelona’s Hospital del Mar. About half the patients received vitamin D3 in the amount of 21,280 IU on day one plus 10,640 IU on days 3, 7, 15, and 30. Those that received vitamin D fared significantly better, with only 4.5 percent requiring ICU admission compared to 21 percent in the no-vitamin D group.​​Vitamin D treatment also significantly reduced mortality, with 4.7 percent of the vitamin D group dying at admission, compared to 15.9 percent in the non-vitamin D group...​​Dose matters when it comes to COVID-19 recovery. In a randomized clinical trial in Saudi Arabia, researchers compared daily supplementation with either 5,000 IUs or 1,000 IUs oral vitamin D3 among patients with suboptimal vitamin D levels hospitalized for mild to moderate COVID-19. Those in the 5,000 IUs group had a significantly shorter time to recovery for cough and loss of the sense of taste compared to the 1,000 IUs group.​​According to the researchers, “The use of 5000 IU vitamin D3 as an adjuvant therapy for COVID-19 patients with suboptimal vitamin D status, even for a short duration, is recommended.”​​Hospitalized With COVID-19? Ask for Vitamin D​The evidence continues to grow that treatment with vitamin D leads to significantly better outcomes for people hospitalized with COVID-19. In another example from Spain, hospitalized COVID-19 patients who received vitamin D3 had a mortality rate of 5 percent, compared to 20 percent for those who did not. The researchers explained:​​“The protective effect of calcifediol [activated vitamin D] remained significant after adjustment for multiple confounder factors related to severity disease even after selecting those subjects who were older (≥65 years) and had worse oxygen saturation levels at admission (<96 percent).”​​Similarly, 76 consecutive patients hospitalized with COVID-19 at Reina Sofia University Hospital in Córdoba, Spain, were randomized to receive either standard care or standard care plus vitamin D3 to rapidly increase vitamin D levels.​​Of 50 treated with vitamin D, only one person was admitted to the ICU. Of 26 who were not treated with vitamin D, 13 (50 percent) required admission to the hospital. Researchers noted, “Calcifediol seems to be able to reduce the severity of the disease.”​​Further: “Of the patients treated with calcifediol, none died, and all were discharged, without complications. The 13 patients not treated with calcifediol, who were not admitted to the ICU, were discharged. Of the 13 patients admitted to the ICU, two died and the remaining 11 were discharged.”​​In a previous review, the researchers explained that vitamin D has favorable effects during both the early viraemic phase of COVID-19 as well as the later hyperinflammatory phase, including for acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS)...​​“Based on many preclinical studies and observational data in humans, ARDS may be aggravated by vitamin D deficiency and tapered down by activation of the vitamin D receptor,” they wrote in a study published in The Journal of Steroid Biochemistry and Molecular Biology  “Based on a pilot study, oral calcifediol may be the most promising approach.”​​Even regular “booster” doses of vitamin D, regardless of baseline levels, appear to be effective in reducing the risk of mortality in people admitted to the hospital with COVID-19, particularly for the elderly.​​“This inexpensive and widely available treatment could have positive implications for the management of COVID-19 worldwide, particularly in developing nations,” researchers from the United Kingdom noted.​​Low Vitamin D Levels May Increase Death Risk​A systematic review and meta-analysis published in the Journal of Endocrinological Investigation included 13 studies involving 2,933 COVID-19 patients. Vitamin D was a clear winner, with use in COVID-19 patients significantly associated with reduced ICU admission and mortality. . .​​When it comes to data to support the use of vitamin D for COVID-19, 87 studies have been performed by 784 scientists. The results show:​
53 percent improvement in 28 treatment trials
56 percent improvement in 59 sufficiency studies
63 percent improvement in 16 treatment mortality results
A number of clinical trials are also underway, looking further into the use of vitamin D for COVID-19, including one by Harvard Medical School researchers investigating whether taking daily vitamin D reduces COVID-19 disease severity...​​‘A Simple and Inexpensive Measure’​*“To reduce the risk of infection, it is recommended that people at risk of influenza and/or COVID-19 consider taking 10,000 IU/d of vitamin D3 for a few weeks to rapidly raise 25(OH)D concentrations, followed by 5000 IU/d...*​


----------



## Ceee

That's some really good info, so thaknks!



Melensdad said:


> followed by 5000 IU/d...


Does that mean 5000 IU per day or something else?


----------



## Melensdad

Ceee said:


> That's some really good info, so thaknks!
> 
> 
> Does that mean 5000 IU per day or something else?


Yes, 5000iu per day.

Typically at pharmacies, large grocery stores, etc you will see Vitamin D3 in various doses. I simply buy the 5000iu dose and it is what the lovely Mrs_Bob and I have been taking for quite a while.  Our daughter prefers gummies, I think she takes 2000iu gummies and eats multiples.

Most people have low levels of Vitamin D, this problem is worse in cold/rainy weather.  Even in the summer many people cover their skin, which is the the main absorber of Vitamin D as we get it from the sun.  So if you go outside in the summer and lounge by the pool in a swimsuit you will likely have plenty of Vitamin D.  But if you wear sun blocking shirts or wide brim hats then you are actually not getting much Vitamin D at all.  And it does not store in the body for very long so it must be constantly replenished.  It is possible to have high levels of D in one season and be deficient of D in the next season.  But most of use are deficient in all 4 seasons.


----------



## Esco

Melensdad said:


> And yet you have no evidence of that.  And I provided strong evidence that the UK has plenty of Anti-Vaxxers plus I provided evidence that refutes your claims about the US vaccine hesitant being part of a political or conspiracy group.  Please do yourself a favor and read the linked articles.  Follow the footnotes


I have lived in the US, Canada, the UK and Netherlands, the US has by far the most religious nuts than any other Western country.
Read this: https://bigleaguepolitics.com/poll-...eve-covid-19-vaccines-may-contain-microchips/


----------



## Melensdad

Esco said:


> I have lived in the US, Canada, the UK and Netherlands, the US has by far the most religious nuts than any other Western country.
> Read this: https://bigleaguepolitics.com/poll-...eve-covid-19-vaccines-may-contain-microchips/


I agree.

But if you actually look at the DATA it is not the "religious nuts" that are the main holdouts on the vaccines.  I provided the data links.  You just don't care to look at them?  You seem to want to push your narrative and ignore facts from the CDC.  Fine.


----------



## FrancSevin

According to published figures by PHS, 5,522 people died in Scotland within 28 days of receiving one of the experimental COVID-19 vaccines.

That is INSANE!


In Scotland, AstraZeneca and Pfizer have accounted for nearly 100% of the 5,502 deaths.

Now, are you ready for an even more shocking statistic?
The monthly average of experimental COVID-19 vaccine deaths in that six-month timeframe is greater than average monthly COVID-19 deaths.

So, is the cure is worse than the disease?
Just like we have always said.


----------



## Esco

FrancSevin said:


> According to published figures by PHS, 5,522 people died in Scotland within 28 days of receiving one of the experimental COVID-19 vaccines.
> 
> That is INSANE!


Were all those deaths directly related to the vaccine side-effects though??


----------



## FrancSevin

Esco said:


> Were all those deaths directly related to the vaccine side-effects though??


Is that a serious question?

Seems to me we had auto accident and GSW victims dying of COVID.  Or have you forgotten?




__





						The Number Of People That Have Died From Taking The Vaccine This Month Is Insane! – 3%
					





					threepercenternation.com


----------



## Esco

FrancSevin said:


> Is that a serious question?
> 
> Seems to me we had auto accident and GSW victims dying of COVID.  Or have you forgotten?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Number Of People That Have Died From Taking The Vaccine This Month Is Insane! – 3%
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> threepercenternation.com


How can I take that site seriously when they post stories like this?? 





__





						New Report Shows China Is Prepping For “Pearl Harbor” Strike on America – 3%
					





					threepercenternation.com


----------



## FrancSevin

Esco said:


> How can I take that site seriously when they post stories like this??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Report Shows China Is Prepping For “Pearl Harbor” Strike on America – 3%
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> threepercenternation.com


First off,  WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH THE SUBJECT OF THIS THREAD?

 Secondly you haven't really been here long enough to judge us.

Third, As much as we appreciate new blood and new perspectives, _we_ are not here to please _your _standards.  If you are unhappy here, there are other sites that perhaps appreciate trolling.

And lastly, it would be appreciated if you answered a poster's question instead of insulting the Forum.


----------



## Melensdad

FrancSevin said:


> According to published figures by PHS, 5,522 people died in Scotland within 28 days of receiving one of the experimental COVID-19 vaccines.
> 
> That is INSANE!
> 
> 
> In Scotland, AstraZeneca and Pfizer have accounted for nearly 100% of the 5,502 deaths.



As Trump would say, this is fake news

The NHS traced all those deaths, there are a handful that might be attributed the the vaccine.  The other 99.9% had nothing to do with vaccinations.


----------



## Esco

FrancSevin said:


> First off,  WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH THE SUBJECT OF THIS THREAD?
> 
> Secondly you haven't really been here long enough to judge us.
> 
> Third, As much as we appreciate new blood and new perspectives, _we_ are not here to please _your _standards.  If you are unhappy here, there are other sites that perhaps appreciate trolling.
> 
> And lastly, it would be appreciated if you answered a poster's question instead of insulting the Forum


I'm not trolling.  That site you posted is not very credible, and therefore I cannot take it seriously.
BTW you sound a bit offended, are you the owner of that site??


----------



## Esco

Melensdad said:


> As Trump would say, this is fake news
> 
> The NHS traced all those deaths, there are a handful that might be attributed the the vaccine.  The other 99.9% had nothing to do with vaccinations.


Exactly what I thought


----------



## Melensdad

Let us stay on topic.  

This is not the debate area of the Forums-Forums.


----------



## FrancSevin

Melensdad said:


> As Trump would say, this is fake news
> 
> The NHS traced all those deaths, there are a handful that might be attributed the the vaccine.  The other 99.9% had nothing to do with vaccinations.


I'm just suggesting that the NNHS and WHO and our own government manipulated the data from the beginning.  To cast doubt on a site source as a defense is not an argument.  And, it certainly isn't an answer to the question asked.

There is crap on both sides.  I don't censor, I post.  Frankly, given last year's reporting, I don't find the NHS itself to be all that credible.  I posted it for comment.

Your answer is credible and respectful.  Thanks


----------



## Melensdad

Texas Hospital has the Lambda variant.  It is nothing to worry about.





__





						Zerohedge
					

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero




					www.zerohedge.com
				




Lambda Variant Confirmed In COVID-19 Patient In Texas Hospital​_Authored by Tom Ozimek via The Epoch Times,_

A Texas hospital has reported its* first case of the Lambda variant of the pathogen*that causes COVID-19, according to multiple media outlets.





*As of Monday morning, at least one patient at Houston Methodist Hospital was confirmed to be infected with the Lambda variant, *according to a hospital spokesperson, as reported by KHOU11.

Houston Methodist Hospital CEO Marc Bloom wrote in an email to staff, obtained by the Houston Chronicle, that as of Monday, the hospital was treating 184 COVID-19 patients, with around 85 percent of them infected with the Delta variant.

The Lambda variant, dubbed C.37, was first identified in Peru last year before spreading to multiple countries in South America. It has been deemed a “variant of interest” by the World Health Organization (WHO), which in a recent report (pdf) indicated that 81 percent of COVID-19 cases sequenced in Peru since April 2021 are associated with Lambda.

*In the United States, the Lambda variant has so far infected fewer than 700 people, and some experts believe it poses less of a threat than the Delta variant, about which U.S. health officials have been sounding the alarm. *. . .

Commenting on the Lambda variant, S. Wesley Long, medical director of diagnostic microbiology at Houston Methodist, told The Washington Post that *Lambda “is not anywhere near as concerning as the Delta variant,”* which he said is “the engine that’s going to be driving the surge in the U.S.” . . .

*So far, no CCP virus mutations have received the “variant of high consequence” designation, *which is reserved for those that show clear evidence that medical countermeasures have significantly reduced effectiveness compared to previously circulating variants.


----------



## FrancSevin

The real question here is about the mandate to have the shot.  There are many reasons not to take the COVID vaccine.  Some are sill some are quite valid.

I have two reasons. And would be happy to debate them
 One) I usually take a flu shot when I can schedule a time to be sick.  Because I always react to them poorly.

Two) I have a moral reason that includes the use of "T" cells from aborted babies to generate the original vaccine.  My survival will not be made as a result of the sacrifice of an unborn.

Besides, I had the virus in February of 2020.   

I wash hands, face and body regularly
Don't smoke
Eat only healthy foods.

Fortunately, at 74 My cells are the age of a man in his 50's

Unfortunately, my looks don't. 

BTW,,,;One more to add,,,; MY BODY, MY CHOICE!


----------



## Melensdad

FrancSevin said:


> Two) I have a moral reason that includes the use of "T" cells from aborted babies to generate the original vaccine.  My survival will not be made as a result of the sacrifice of an unborn.


FWIW the Moderna and the Pfizer mRNA vaccines are reported by multiple reputable sources to not contain any components from any of abortive tissue nor were they used in the development of those vaccines.   

When it comes to the COVID-19 vaccines currently approved for emergency use, neither the Pfizer nor Moderna vaccines used fetal cell lines during the development or production phases. (So, no fetal cell lines were used to manufacture the vaccine, and they are not inside the injection you receive from your doctor.)​
The Johnson & Johnson vaccine did use fetal cells in the development of their vaccine.  It should be noted they are not a component in the vaccine.

And for Catholics, like myself, the Vatican has issued a statement saying that, in absence of an alternative it would be OK to use a vaccine derived from fetal tissue.  So only if you can't get the Moderna or Pfizer, then you can get the J&J.


----------



## FrancSevin

Melensdad said:


> FWIW the Moderna and the Pfizer mRNA vaccines are reported by multiple reputable sources to not contain any components from any of abortive tissue nor were they used in the development of those vaccines.
> 
> When it comes to the COVID-19 vaccines currently approved for emergency use, neither the Pfizer nor Moderna vaccines used fetal cell lines during the development or production phases. (So, no fetal cell lines were used to manufacture the vaccine, and they are not inside the injection you receive from your doctor.)​
> The Johnson & Johnson vaccine did use fetal cells in the development of their vaccine.  It should be noted they are not a component in the vaccine.
> 
> And for Catholics, like myself, the Vatican has issued a statement saying that, in absence of an alternative it would be OK to use a vaccine derived from fetal tissue.  So only if you can't get the Moderna or Pfizer, then you can get the J&J.


I'll have to find it but, there has been a  recent court case settled in favor of the Plaintiff who was denied attendance at a Ivy League university. She won on the religious ground of which I spoke. Specific to your point, no distinction was made as to which vaccine was non fetal derived.

I do not resist on basis of religion but humanity.  IMHO it is inhuman to kill a fetus.  Period.
Again my, body my choice.

Right now the big pharma's are allowed to use the general public as a test lab for their product without liability.  I understand, despite the danger, of the urgency of need here.  But I refuse to be forced by my government to participate. I do not disparage anyone who finds it acceptable to be a Guinea pig but I do resist, with absolute certainty,  the compromise of my right to refuse the vaccine.

It's like the pistol I carry on my hip.  If the store owner doesn't want it in his shop, I respect that.  Assuming, of course, that I am not required to enter. So I don't insist,  and either remove the weapon,  or take business elsewhere.  It's called "Freedom."

As for the Catholic church, and their stand on abortion, screw the Pope's message.


----------



## Melensdad

FrancSevin said:


> ...Specific to your point, no distinction was made as to which vaccine was non fetal derived.


The Pfizer and the Moderna are *NOT* derived from fetal tissue.


----------



## FrancSevin

Melensdad said:


> The Pfizer and the Moderna are *NOT* derived from fetal tissue.


IF and a big if, that was the only reasoning, I would have to concede the argument. I believe I gave others any of which should be sufficient case to deny taking the vaccine.   If they are not sufficient, sorry. I still stand on them.

I did modify my post to include my opinion of the new POPE.  Again I'm not standing on any religious ground.  The Church is constructed by man and can be as corrupted as any person,  government, or cult.

Here's the thing,,,;
At one time, I pledged to give my life to save others.  My choice, my decision.   The _fetal matter_ of which you speak, was not offered that choice.

It takes a bit of digging but the CDC  has been unclear on this. And making assumption from current headlines is dangerous. All of the major Pharma companies use derivatives from fetal cells. It is aborted fetal cells that bother me.









						Modern medicine must end the use of cells from aborted children
					

Abortion has not just cast a shadow over vaccines, but over common household medications used by Americans on a daily basis.




					www.liveaction.org


----------



## Melensdad

I only was pointing out the one fact.  

*That being that the Pfizer/Moderna vaccines did not use fetal tissue for their development. *​
I have a long history of supporting choice in vaccinations, and allowing people to choose to get one or not.


----------



## Melensdad

Huh?   So it’s not the Pro-Trumpers and Bible thumpers after all.  Who knew?  Well I did, because I study facts.  Posted them earlier in this tread for all to read.  But the media and the politicians keep blaming the bitter clingers because it fits their narrative.

CNN had to bury this pretty deep in the story, far past after most people stop reading, but they admit the truth.









						Three states are seeing about 40% of the country's new Covid-19 cases | CNN
					

While Covid-19 cases in the United States have been rising in almost every state over the past week, a handful have been driving the bulk of the nationwide surge.




					www.cnn.com
				





Vaccinations are the strongest tool to fight the virus, he said, but rates are still too low and "with many communities --* particularly communities of color *-- at risk for yet another devastating wave of cases, hospitalizations and deaths, masks are the next best tool that officials have in places where vaccination levels remain low despite covid cases rapidly rising."​


----------



## Melensdad

While I am vaccinated, and happily so, I do find the following information pretty bizarre.

56% of Democrats want children to have mandatory vaccinations for Covid when it has a mortality rate, in percentage terms, of 0.000002% 


Via BBC:



> _“Researchers estimate that 25 deaths in a population of some 12 million children in England gives a broad, overall mortality rate of *2 per million children.”*_









Despite Statistics, Majority of Democrats Support Mandatory Vaccinations For Schools​Despite the above-cited statistics, 56% of big-D Democrats supported mandating vaccines for schoolchildren in a July 2021 poll.


----------



## FrancSevin

Melensdad said:


> Huh?   So it’s not the Pro-Trumpers and Bible thumpers after all.  Who knew?  Well I did, because I study facts.  Posted them earlier in this tread for all to read.  But the media and the politicians keep blaming the bitter clingers because it fits their narrative.
> 
> CNN had to bury this pretty deep in the story, far past after most people stop reading, but they admit the truth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Three states are seeing about 40% of the country's new Covid-19 cases | CNN
> 
> 
> While Covid-19 cases in the United States have been rising in almost every state over the past week, a handful have been driving the bulk of the nationwide surge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vaccinations are the strongest tool to fight the virus, he said, but rates are still too low and "with many communities --* particularly communities of color *-- at risk for yet another devastating wave of cases, hospitalizations and deaths, masks are the next best tool that officials have in places where vaccination levels remain low despite covid cases rapidly rising."​


I don't know how the media gets away with this.  :Logic dictates the opposite. After all, the vaccines are here as a result of President Trump. Not Joe Biden.


----------



## Ceee

I watched my favorite Dr. Ed chat session.  He's an infectious disease doctor in a large hospital in Dallas.  He was talking about people who are hesitant to get the vaccine.  He said, and this is just in my own words, that the majority of his patients who have refused to take the vaccine are saying that they're not being influenced by either social media or politics.  Their hesitancy is based on the fact that the vaccines are emergency use only and not fully approved by the FDA.  He seemed to think that once the FDA gave full approval to one or both, pfizer or moderna, that would help more people to agree to vaccination.









						When Will the FDA Give Full Approval for COVID-19 Vaccines?
					

Two vaccine manufacturers are asking the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to give full approval for their COVID-19 vaccines. We talked with experts about why it matters for the FDA to give full approval.




					www.healthline.com
				




"However, Pfizer and BioNTech as well as Moderna have already submitted applications for full approval of their vaccines — officially known as a Biologic License Application (BLA) — to the FDA on May 7, 2021, and June 1, 2021, respectively."

"That means the FDA would decide on full approval of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine by January 2022 and February 2022 for the Moderna vaccine."

“The FDA has already reviewed the initial clinical trials data from both companies and the manufacturing aspects to grant the EUAs,” said Tice, so full approval of these vaccines might happen in less than 6 months."


----------



## Melensdad

Low risk talk show host, unvaccinated, changes his mind about getting vaccinated after he ends up in the hospital with Covid. 

The problem with this disease, if you are high risk, you get it, you will probably get pretty sick.  But if you are LOW RISK, you get it, you will probably have the sniffles for a week (95+%).  Unless you get it bad, then you are screwed.  Seems the Delta variant, while apparently not quite as severe, is simply infecting so many people, including many younger people, that cases are going up in the low risk groups and SOME of them are going to end up in very serious shape.









						A conservative talk-show host who said 'you're probably safer not getting' the vaccine is now seriously ill with COVID-19, and his family is asking people to 'PLEASE GO GET VACCINATED!'
					

Now that Phil Valentine has become ill with the coronavirus, he has "regrets" about not being more "pro-vaccine," his family said.




					news.yahoo.com
				



​A conservative talk-show host who said 'you're probably safer not getting' the vaccine is now seriously ill with COVID-19, and his family is asking people to 'PLEASE GO GET VACCINATED!'​Fri, July 23, 2021, 11:06 AM​



​​​The conservative radio talk-show host Phil Valentine is hospitalized in serious condition with COVID-19, his family said. A. Martin UW Photography/Getty Images​​
Phil Valentine, a conservative radio talk-show host, is hospitalized with COVID-19, his family said.
Valentine had said people were "probably safer not getting" the vaccine if they weren't at high risk.
His family said he now "regrets" not being more "pro-vaccine."
A conservative radio talk-show host who had told followers that they were "probably safer not getting" the COVID-19 vaccine if they weren't at high risk is now hospitalized in serious condition with the coronavirus, his family said.​​Phil Valentine, who hosts "The Phil Valentine Show" on WWTN-FM in Nashville, Tennessee, contracted COVID-19 more than a week ago and "has since been hospitalized & is in very serious condition," his family said in a statement on Thursday.​​Valentine, 61, is "suffering from COVID pneumonia and the attendant side effects," the statement said, adding, "He is in the hospital in the critical care unit breathing with assistance but is NOT on a ventilator."​​Now that he's become ill with the coronavirus, he has "regrets" about his comments about the vaccines, his family said.​​"Phil would like for his listeners to know that while he has never been an 'anti-vaxer' he regrets not being more vehemently 'Pro-Vaccine', and looks forward to being able to more vigorously advocate that position as soon as he is back on the air, which we all hope will be soon," the family said.​​In a post on his blog on December 17, Valentine gave his views on the COVID-19 vaccines.​​"I'm not an anti-vaxxer. I'm just using common sense. What are my odds of getting COVID? They're pretty low. What are my odds of dying from COVID if I do get it? Probably way less than one percent," he wrote.​​Valentine continued: "If you have underlying health issues you probably need to get the vaccine. If you're not at high risk of dying from COVID then you're probably safer not getting it. That evokes shrieks of horror from many, but it's true."​​He added, "If I decide not to get vaccinated, I'm not putting anyone else's life in danger except perhaps people who have made the same decision."​​Public-health experts have urged people to get vaccinated, saying the vaccines authorized for emergency use in the US are safe and effective at preventing serious illness and the spread of the disease.​​Still, swaths of the country remain unvaccinated as misinformation about the vaccines' safety spreads.​​Valentine posted on Facebook on July 11 that he had COVID-19.​​"Unfortunately for the haters out there, it looks like I'm going to make it," he wrote. "Interesting experience. I'll have to fill you in when I come back on the air. I'm hoping that will be tomorrow, but I may take a day off just as a precaution. It'll be a game time decision."​​On July 15, he shared doubts about the vaccine while posting a story about cancer-causing chemicals found in Johnson & Johnson sunscreens.​​"Ah, but I'm sure their vaccine is perfectly safe," Valentine wrote. "Don't worry about it."​​He has not posted since.​​Valentine's family closed their statement by saying, "Please continue to pray for his recovery and PLEASE GO GET VACCINATED!"​​


----------



## Ceee

Louisiana Rep. Higgins says he, wife, son have coronavirus
					

A Republican congressman from Louisiana who has criticized mask mandates and public health restrictions says he and his wife and son are now sick with the coronavirus




					abcnews.go.com
				




Go to about 2:30 on the video.  I don't get why some people want to remain anonymous when getting the vaccine.  This video sounds like another case of...wish I would have.


----------



## Melensdad

Couple interesting things to report.

1 - Out of Israel, it appears that the Pfizer vaccine if given 3-4 weeks between doses has LOWER immunity than if it is given 8 to 12 weeks apart.  I didn't hear if that same fact applies to the AstraZenica or the Moderna vaccines.

2 - Also, out of the same data set, it appears that the people vaccinated with the Pfizer vaccine in January have LOWER immunity against the Delta variant if they were vaccinated in January.  If they were vaccinated in February they have slightly more immunity against Delta.  If they were vaccinated in March they have slightly more immunity against Delta . . . etc.  So more recently vaccinated have more immunity against Delta than early vaccinated people.  This data only is known to apply to Pfizer.  We simply don't have the data about Moderna because Israel used the Pfizer vaccine.

------------------------ 0 ------------------------

Also, and this probably should not be a surprise to anyone, but the Chinese Sinovac is just a crap.  At best it probably had something like a 55% efficacy rate.  But now there is a study that shows the Sinovac is only good for about 6 months.  I believe EastTxFrank's son got the Sinovac while working in the middleast?

Full story at the link -->  https://news.yahoo.com/antibodies-sinovacs-covid-19-shot-142748493.html

Antibodies from Sinovac's COVID-19 shot fade after about 6 months, booster helps - study​
BEIJING (Reuters) - Antibodies triggered by Sinovac Biotech's COVID-19 vaccine decline below a key threshold from around six months after a second dose for most recipients, although a third shot could have a strong boosting effect, according to a lab study. ​​  Chinese researchers reported the findings from a study of blood samples from healthy adults aged between 18-59 in a paper published on Sunday, which has not been peer reviewed. ​​  For participants receiving two doses, two or four weeks apart, only 16.9% and 35.2% respectively still had a level of neutralising antibodies above the threshold six months after the second dose, the paper said. ​​  Those readings was based on data from two cohorts involving more than 50 participants each, while the study gave third doses to a total of 540 participants. ​​  When participants in some cohorts were given a third dose, about six months after the second, neutralising antibody levels after a further 28 days had increased around 3-5 fold from the levels seen four weeks after the second dose, the study showed. . . ​




Ceee said:


> Louisiana Rep. Higgins says he, wife, son have coronavirus
> 
> 
> A Republican congressman from Louisiana who has criticized mask mandates and public health restrictions says he and his wife and son are now sick with the coronavirus
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abcnews.go.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Go to about 2:30 on the video.  I don't get why some people want to remain anonymous when getting the vaccine.  This video sounds like another case of...wish I would have.


Some people believe there is a stigma related to the disease.   I have several students in a minority community and one of the family had several family members catch Covid.  The family shared the information with me but swore me to secrecy for the safety of their child (my student).  Apparently the stigma runs pretty deep with some folks.  I don't know why.  I know several others who had it, recovered, and never really cared about people knowing or not knowing.  So maybe it is a cultural or sub-cultural thing?


----------



## EastTexFrank

Melensdad said:


> I believe EastTxFrank's son got the Sinovac while working in the middleast?


No Bob but he was scheduled to get the Sinovac vaccine.  I think that Dubai was using Sinovac because, at that time, it was all that they could get.  Unfortunately, the big lug caught Covid-19 in what was supposed to be one of the safest places in the world at that time.  By the time that he finished his 2 weeks quarantine he was not allowed to take a vaccine shot for 3 months and by that time Dubai was administering the Pfizer shots.


----------



## Ceee

I've been hearing more and more about break through cases.  I'd be interested in reading about which vaccine is more susceptible to break through cases.  That info may be impossible to obtain and just not out there, but I'd sure like to see percentages compared by vaccine brands.


----------



## Ceee

Melensdad said:


> Apparently the stigma runs pretty deep





Melensdad said:


> So maybe it is a cultural or sub-cultural thing?


I had to think about that one for a while.  I sure don't know either, but if that's what's happening, that sounds like a lose-lose situation to me. You're stigmatized for contracting covid and stigmatized for receiving the vaccine.


----------



## FrancSevin

The thing about  being American is we get to make choices.  Sometime we make bad ones.  But why does that give our government, or any particular political party, any foundation for telling us what we MUST do? A government that tells us what we must do is not one of a free people. So they say, the choice is  either we are free or we are safe?  Bull feathers.

We are free to make bad decisions. and no government should be held to task for not preventing our stupidity.


----------



## Melensdad

Ceee said:


> I've been hearing more and more about break through cases.  I'd be interested in reading about which vaccine is more susceptible to break through cases.  That info may be impossible to obtain and just not out there, but I'd sure like to see percentages compared by vaccine brands.


I found some data on breakthrough cases in Israel.  They primarily used Pfizer and AstraZenica.  But the people who got it after vaccination rarely got very sick.  It seems like it is nothing to really worry about (statistically) if you are vaccinated or if you recovered from a prior infection.


----------



## Melensdad

FrancSevin said:


> The thing about  being American is we get to make choices.  Sometime we make bad ones.  But why does that give our government, or any particular political party, any foundation for telling us what we MUST do? A government that tells us what we must do is not one of a free people. So they say, the choice is  either we are free or we are safe?  Bull feathers.
> 
> We are free to make bad decisions. and no government should be held to task for not preventing our stupidity.


Right now we have the choice.

There are SOME government workers that are going to be mandated to get a vaccine.  

There are SOME private sector workers that are being told they need to get the vaccine but they still have a choice.

Just to add a little clarity to the fire, the death rate is still VERY VERY LOW from Covid.  I can find no data that shows that DELTA is actually more deadly as a % of cases.  It will increase hospitalizations and deaths in the unvaccinated population as they get infected, but very likely among the higher risk populations (obesity, autoimmune, cancer, diabetes, hypertension, etc).

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...-death-rate-is-still-roughly-at-pandemic-low/ 

U.S. Coronavirus Death Rate Is Still Roughly at Pandemic-Low​Wendell Husebø27 Jul 2021​



Spencer Platt/Getty Images​2:35​​The United States’ coronavirus death rate is still roughly at a pandemic-low, as the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) recommended Tuesday that vaccinated individuals and children wear masks indoors.​​_According to Google’s coronavirus tracking system on July 26, 275 people are dying from the virus on a seven day average, while overall infection cases are rising.  Around the high of coronavirus deaths on January 20, when President Joe Biden took office, 3,056 people were dying on a seven day average._​​Since January, coronavirus deaths have steadily decreased – presumably due to the vaccine developed under the Trump administration.​​On February 20, 1,904 people were dying on a seven day average. The number dipped again in March to 1,083.​​On April 20, the number had decreased to 784 deaths on average per seven days. May saw the number shrink to 595 and in June the average seven day death rate was down to 300.​​The dropping numbers come as the CDC reinstated mask recommendations for vaccinated individuals, a policy which was previously dropped in May when the seven day average was recorded at 595.​​When the White House was pressed as to why vaccinated individuals must wear masks, press secretary Jen Psaki said the recommendations were due to the “transmissibility of the virus.”​​“Because the public health leaders in our administration have made the determination, based on data, that is a way to make sure they are protected, their loved ones are protected.,” she said. “That’s an extra step in given the transmissibility of the virus.”​​“Federal officials met on Sunday night to review new evidence that may have prompted the reversal,” a _New York Times_ report stated. “The new guidance would mark a sharp turnabout from the agency’s position since May that vaccinated people do not need to wear masks in most indoor spaces.”​​“It’s a dynamic situation. It’s a work in progress, it evolves like in so many other areas of the pandemic,” Dr. Anthony Fauci explained Sunday. “You’ve got to look at the data.”​​The Associated Press reported the peak death toll “topped out in mid-January at an average of more than 3,400 a day, just a month into the biggest vaccination drive in the nation’s history.”​


----------



## Melensdad

Ok seriously, is there anyone on the planet earth who can explain this to me? 

Seriously WTF

Did this guy just rob the Democratic Headquarters brain bank?  If so he clearly got all their intelligence.


----------



## Melensdad

And for the old folks.

Israel, the nation which is the most vaccinated in the world, and which vaccinated their older people faster than any other nation, we have a lot of news reports.  Already noted, people who got vaccinated in December/January have less resistance to Delta than people who got vaccinated in March/April.  So it appears that, at least among OLDER people, the vaccine effectiveness seems to fade.  Younger people don't seem to show as much fade in effectiveness but there are very few studies so the data is really incomplete.

Israel is not going to begin dosing a 3rd dose of vaccine to older folks.  It is unclear if they are just going to give another shot of the current vaccine or if they are using a newer version of the vaccine that has been optimized for Delta.  As it clearly doesn't say a new version is being used, I'd just guess they are giving another dose of the current vaccine.










						Health Ministry experts panel recommends 3rd COVID shot for older Israelis
					

***




					www.haaretz.com
				




Health Ministry experts panel recommends 3rd COVID shot for older Israelis​Jul. 29, 2021 12:38 AM​Experts advising the Health Ministry have recommended that older people receive a third dose of the coronavirus vaccine, though they disagree on whether the cohort should start at 60 years old, 65 or 70.​​Some of the data presented at a discussion Wednesday suggested that the vaccine's effectiveness in preventing severe symptoms among 60-year-olds and above has dropped to 81 percent from 97 percent in January.​​While most panel members favored a booster shot for anyone 60 or older, others suggested that the bar be raised to 65 or 70. The Health Ministry's director general, Nachman Ash, will make the final decision.​​Prime Minister Naftali Bennett will meet the health minister and other experts on Thursday to discuss the health or economic implications of the said move, a statement by the prime minister's office reads.​​Earlier Wednesday, experts told Haaretz that there is still not enough data on the effectiveness and safety of a third dose, but they also expressed concerns about delaying the decision.​​Prof. Galia Rahav, head of the infectious disease unit at Sheba Medical Center near Tel Aviv, will head a research team looking into the move. Rahav told Haaretz that she hopes to begin testing a third dose next week.​​“We're  seeing a dramatic drop in the level of immunity and we know the elderly respond less to vaccines than the young, but we don’t have this data for COVID-19,” she said.​​On Tuesday, Prime Minister Naftali Bennett declared that Israel was “very close” to making a decision on COVID booster shots, and on obtaining the additional doses needed to make that happen.​​Bennett's remarks came two weeks after the World Health Organization and the U.S. Centers for Disease Control said there was no need at this time for a third dose, but as Israeli Health Ministry data showed a sharp decline in the vaccine's effectiveness against infection and a slight decline in preventing severe illness.​


----------



## pirate_girl

Melensdad said:


> Ok seriously, is there anyone on the planet earth who can explain this to me?
> 
> Seriously WTF
> 
> Did this guy just rob the Democratic Headquarters brain bank?  If so he clearly got all their intelligence.
> 
> View attachment 139019


I loved seeing people on bikes.
Riding out in the country.
In a mask.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq




----------



## Melensdad

SWEDEN has a fairly small population but an extraordinarily high vaccination rate, especially among the older populations, which are generally at greater risk.  Nice to see they have ZERO deaths.  Probably largely because they have so many vaccinated people.

Israel also is high vaccinated but is seeing breakthrough by the DELTA variant from India.

Why is Israel having a different infection rate than Sweden?  Some of the answer may lie in WHEN people were vaccinated.  There are now studies showing that the vaccination efficacy, especially in OLDER adults, tends to fade over time.  Since Israel started their vaccination program earlier than other nations, logically some of their population, especially the older members who were vaccinated first, would actually have lower immunity than people who have more recently been vaccinated.  Sweden started mass vaccinations later, and therefore would, if the data is correct, have a higher level of immunity to the Delta/Indian variant because more people have been vaccinated fairly recently.


FULL STORY AT THE LINK --  https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/...rld-push-3rd-covid-vaccine-already-vaccinated

Israel Becomes First Country In World To Push 3rd COVID Shot For Already Vaccinated​In what's a likely sign of things to come elsewhere, Israel is now *pushing a third jab*, or follow-up *booster for those who've already received their two vaccine rounds*, for the elderly people over the age of 60.​​Israel's prominent _Haaretz_ newspaper revealed Thursday the country will be the first in the world to start doing so after government approval, writing that Israel "will start offering *a third COVID vaccine shot to people over 60* starting on Sunday, after the Health Ministry approved the move on Thursday."​​"The booster shots will be given to those over 60 who received their second dose at least five months ago. Israel is the first country to announce that it will begin giving booster shots," the report says.​​Israeli President Naftali Bennet unveiled the plan to the nation in a televised address:​​


> "I’m announcing this evening the beginning of the campaign to receive the booster vaccine, the third vaccine," Bennett said.​"Reality proves the vaccines are safe. Reality also proves the vaccines protects from severe morbidity and death. *And like the flu vaccine that needs to be renewed from time to time*, it is the same in this case."​


Recent reports have indicated internal health ministry disagreement on whether the third jab program should start for vaccinated people 60 years old, 65 or 70. The rationale is that the elderly are considered to have weaker immune systems compared to the broader population. ​​Some 60% of Israel's total population has been vaccinated. The third round of a Pfizer-BioNTech shot is also in response to *fears that the vaccine's effectiveness is waning the face of the delta variant's spread*. Within the eligible age group, those that received their second dose at least five months ago have access to the booster. ​​_Some are already calling for a "different vaccine" altogether to fight delta and other variants..._​​​Axios notes that: ​​


> _Pfizer on Wednesday said it has data that shows that a third shot "*strongly" increases antibody levels against the Delta variant*._​_*...*_​


Recently Israel's health ministry boasted that the two-dose vaccine is 91% effective against severe illness and 88% effective against hospitalization, but again it appears that officials are concerned the effectiveness is being reduced especially in the elderly population. . . ​


----------



## Melensdad

This morning I saw a "shocking" headline that is supposed to scare people.

126,000 Breakthrough Infections in Vaccinated People

Put that into perspective, *that is less than 0.08% of the vaccinated people* who got Covid after vaccination, and they typically get very mild cases and don't end up in the hospital.

Over 98% of the deaths are among the UNvaccinated population.

People at risk are usually a combination of 2 or more of the following:  overweight, with hypertension, diabetic, elderly, autoimmune disease, cancer, pulmonary issues.  Unvaccinated people are at much higher risk than vaccinated people for developing complications, especially if they have some of the above morbidities.


----------



## Melensdad

I would really like to see the demographic data on the people who are going into the hospitals.

How old are they?  Breakdown by age brackets.  
What other co-morbidities do they have?

The 3 data points below are NOT listed in the article, which clearly shows that some hospitals are bursting their capacity limits, but it should be noted that based on national data:

179 unvaccinated people per 100,000 get Covid versus 21 vaccinated people per 100,000.
2.96 people per 100,000 cases end up in the hospital versus 0.1 vaccinated peoplel.  
0.96% unvaccinated who get Covid end up dead vs 0.04% of the vaccinated people.

Full story at the link below:









						Florida Emerges As Epicenter Of COVID Outbreak: 'Numbers Are Unbelievably Frightening'
					

Florida is becoming the epicenter of the coronavirus outbreak, and Just this week, cases jumped 50 percent, with more than 110,000 new cases reported.




					miami.cbslocal.com
				




According to the Florida Health Department, the new positivity rate for all of Florida is at 18.1%. In Broward, it’s 14%, Miami-Dade is at 12.1%, and Monroe County is at 16.2%.​​And according to the Florida Hospital Association, COVID-19 hospitalizations are nearing last year’s peak.​​Florida now has more people hospitalized than any other state.​​Dr. Yvonne Johnson, Chief Medical Officer at Baptist South Miami Hospital, said the number of patients in her COVID ward has quadrupled in the past 3 weeks.​​“Eighty to eighty-five percent of those people who are hospitalized are unvaccinated. And 100 percent of the people in my IUC are unvaccinated. All those people are suffering unnecessarily.”​


----------



## pirate_girl

So Lindsey Graham, who was vaccinated- tested positive for covid.



			Sen. Lindsey Graham may have exposed multiple senators to COVID-19 on Joe Manchin's DC houseboat


----------



## Melensdad

DC is under a mask order.  

Why are government officials going maskless but expecting citizens (subjects) to obey laws they refuse to obey?


----------



## Melensdad

Safety so we need masks.  
Safety so we need mandatory vaccines.  
Safety so we need . . .


----------



## Melensdad

While I am pro-vaccination I am also very much against mandatory vaccination.  

I got vaccinated in January and am glad I did.  I'm also not going to tell someone else what to do.  Recently ate dinner at a friends house and my wife and I were the only 2 vaccinated.  I'm OK with the choices of others.

That said, I think, especially for the over 55 year olds, and anyone with co-morbidities like obesity, hypertension, pulmonary issues, diabetes, etc that it makes sense to get vaccinated.

Clearly too small of a sample size to be considered 'proof' but it is clearly more evidence, added to a large pile of evidence, that vaccinations actually work.









						Vaccination may provide more protection than COVID-19 natural immunity, CDC study finds
					

The COVID-19 vaccines may provide greater protection against reinfection than natural immunity, according to a new study from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.




					www.washingtonexaminer.com
				





Vaccination may provide more protection than COVID-19 natural immunity, CDC study finds​​The COVID-19 vaccines may provide greater protection against reinfection than natural immunity, according to a new study from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.​
“If you have had COVID-19 before, please still get vaccinated,” CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky said in a statement. “This study shows you are twice as likely to get infected again if you are unvaccinated. Getting the vaccine is the best way to protect yourself and others around you, especially as the more contagious Delta variant spreads around the country.”​​The study compared 246 patients in Kentucky who had been reinfected with the coronavirus with 492 patients who had not been reinfected. It found a lower rate of vaccination among those who had been reinfected.​​“Kentucky residents with previous infections who were unvaccinated had 2.34 times the odds of reinfection compared with those who were fully vaccinated,” the study's authors wrote.​​Yet, *the study has some limitations.* First, the reinfections were confirmed using an antigen test and not the whole genome sequencing needed to confirm that the reinfection was caused by a distinct virus and was not related to the first infection. Second, vaccinated people are less likely to get tested for COVID-19, which could overestimate the relationship between lack of vaccination and reinfection. . .​


----------



## pirate_girl

350 million already vaccinated??
What?








						Biden Says Everyone in America (And Then Some!) Has Already Been Vaccinated...
					

This man is crazy...




					rumble.com


----------



## Melensdad




----------



## mla2ofus

pirate_girl said:


> 350 million already vaccinated??
> What?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Biden Says Everyone in America (And Then Some!) Has Already Been Vaccinated...
> 
> 
> This man is crazy...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rumble.com


   That must include the 20million here illegally, LOL!! The last count I heard was 320million citizens. I hope biden has enough of his brain left to realize how he's being used.


----------



## Melensdad




----------



## pirate_girl

Lots of places are once again putting the mask mandate in order.
Some of us never STOPPED wearing the damn things.
I've been fully vaccinated, but it's been nice not having any type of flu, never mind a head cold for a very long time.
Speaking of state orders: I noticed recently that all the blue 6 ft apart circles are missing off the floors of stores, banks etc.
I imagine those will be reappearing as well. 
Is this EVER going to end?
?


----------



## Melensdad

pirate_girl said:


> . . . I noticed recently that all the blue 6 ft apart circles are missing off the floors of stores, banks etc.
> I imagine those will be reappearing as well.
> Is this EVER going to end?
> ?


I still see the circles regularly in stores, mostly chain stores

I don't think the politicians want it to end.  Honestly they love the control.  Its not 'herd immunity' they are after, it is 'herd mentality' that they want to direct.  

This IS a REAL disease.  Doesn't matter if it was created in a lab or naturally occurring.  We have do deal with it.  But there are ways of dealing with it that don't require idiotic symbolism or totalitarian lockdowns.  We need to identify the people at high risk and take care of them.  

And we need to understand that mutations will change who are at high risk as the disease evolves.  So we need to understand that yesterday's high risk person may be tomorrows immune person and today's low risk individual may be next week's high risk person.  There are simple things we know help, Vitamin D is on the top of that list.  Vaccinated or not, it has been proven to reduce spread and lower the risk of infection, it also reduces severity of the disease.  Take it daily.  My family takes 5000iu daily.

*Current high risk factors: * Pulmonary diseases, Hypertension, AutoImmune diseases, Diabetes, Overweight and especially Obese, but just being 25# - 30# overweight can put you at higher risk.  Cancers.  

Being Overweight seems to be the #1 risk factor, in fact it now seems to be more of a problem than old age.  First wave of Covid attacked the elderly.  Delta seems to be attacking much younger people.  Both have the common factor of attacking overweight people, plus people with the other risk factors.


----------



## mla2ofus

I still say this is just a convenient excuse for control of the populace!!


----------



## Melensdad

Real cure.  Real breakthrough.  From Israel.  I've posted about this one before, after the Phase 1 trails. 

It is now being used in Greece, under Phase 2 trials, which are just completing.

Well worth reading.  A true cure.  









						COVID: 90% of patients treated with new Israeli drug discharged in 5 days
					

The Phase II trial for an Israeli COVID drug saw some 29 out of 30 patients, moderate to serious, recover within days.




					www.jpost.com
				






COVID: 90% of patients treated with new Israeli drug discharged in 5 days​The Phase II trial for an Israeli COVID drug saw some 29 out of 30 patients, moderate to serious, recover within days.​​Some 93% of 90 coronavirus serious patients treated in several Greek hospitals with a new drug developed by a team at Tel Aviv’s Sourasky Medical Center as part of the Phase II trial of the treatment were discharged in five days or fewer.​​The Phase II trial confirmed the results of Phase I, which was conducted in Israel last winter and saw 29 out of 30 patients in moderate to serious condition recover within days.​​“The main goal of this study was to verify that the drug is safe,” Prof. Nadir Arber said. “To this day we have not registered any significant side effect in any patient from both groups.”​​The trial was conducted in Athens because Israel did not have enough relevant patients. The principal investigator was Greece’s coronavirus commissioner, Prof. Sotiris Tsiodras.​​Arber and his team, including Dr. Shiran Shapira, developed the drug based on a molecule that the professor has been studying for 25 years called CD24, which is naturally present in the body.​​“It is important to remember that 19 out of 20 COVID-19 patients do not need any therapy,” Arber said. “After a window of five to 12 days, some 5% of the patients start to deteriorate.”​​The main cause of the clinical deterioration is an over activation of the immune system, also known as a cytokine storm. In case of COVID-19 patients, the system starts attacking healthy cells in the lungs.​​“This is exactly the problem that our drug targets,” he said.​​CD24 is a small protein that is anchored to the membrane of the cells and it serves many functions including regulating the mechanism responsible for the cytokine storm.​​Arber stressed that their treatment, EXO-CD24, does not affect the immune system as a whole, but only targets this specific mechanism, helping find again its correct balance.​​“This is precision medicine,” he said. “We are very happy that we have found a tool to tackle the physiology of the disease.”​​“Steroids for example shut down the entire immune system,” he further explained. “We are balancing the part responsible for the cytokine storms using the endogenous mechanism of the body, meaning tools offered by the body itself.”​​Arber noted that another breakthrough element of this treatment is its delivery.​​“We are employing exosomes, very small vesicles derived from the membrane of the cells which are responsible for the exchange of information between them,” he said.​​“By managing to deliver them exactly where they are needed, we avoid many side effects,” he added.​​The team is now ready to launch the last phase of the study.​​“As promising as the findings of the first phases of a treatment can be, no one can be sure of anything until results are compared to the ones of patients who receive a placebo,” he said.​​Some 155 coronavirus patients will take part in the study. Two-thirds of them will be administered the drug, and one-third a placebo.​​The study will be conducted in Israel and it might be also carried out in other places if the number of patients in the country will not suffice.​​“We hope to complete it by the end of the year,” Arber said.​​If the results are confirmed, he vowed that the treatment can be made available relatively quickly and at a low cost.​​“In addition, a success could pave the wave to treat many other diseases,” he concluded.​


----------



## FrancSevin

pirate_girl said:


> Lots of places are once again putting the mask mandate in order.
> Some of us never STOPPED wearing the damn things.
> I've been fully vaccinated, but it's been nice not having any type of flu, never mind a head cold for a very long time.
> Speaking of state orders: I noticed recently that all the blue 6 ft apart circles are missing off the floors of stores, banks etc.
> I imagine those will be reappearing as well.
> Is this EVER going to end?
> ?


No.  Not until Americans stand up for their rights.

To be clear, it is not COVID-19 that is diminishing our rights.  It is the people we elected to protect those rights.

Telling the population to wear a useless paper mask whilst ignoring, and even denying, any attempt to pursue the nation that caused the pandemic is not in the best interests of America.  Whilst I understand we do need to contain the fire, I think we need to put some emphasis on finding and eliminating the arsonist. 

Who, BTW, may well be one of us in whom we trusted.


----------



## FrancSevin

The mistrust of the government by the American people is well documented and verifiable.  from using blacks to test VD contagion to introducing an un verified vaccine on a broad scale to a population they scared to death for over a year. Our government, who cannot keep a secret much less a promise dares to insult portions of the population that have an inherent mistrust of the government founded by men who advised repeatedly to never trust that government.

Mike Rowe is no stranger to the common man and has been recently castigated for his stance on the vaccine and any mandatory requirement for it.
A hit piece by one Jonathon Lost was published and mike had the temerity to take Mr. Last to task for it.








						‘Strap In. It’s A Doozy’: Mike Rowe Blasts Critic Who Bashed Him On Vaccines | The Daily Wire
					






					www.dailywire.com
				




A good read.

Some excerpts;



> _The fact is, millions of reasonable Americans have every right to feel confused and skeptical. Those people you refer to, Steve – the ones now telling us that we can “get back to normal just as soon as everyone is vaccinated” – those are the same people who said, “two weeks to flatten the curve!” Those are the same people who told us that masks were “useless” before they told us they were “critical.” Those are the same people who told us that a return to normalcy would occur just as soon as “the most vulnerable” among us were vaccinated. Then, just as soon as “half the population” was vaccinated. Then, just as soon as we achieved “herd immunity.” Those are the same people who told us they wouldn’t trust ANY vaccine developed under the last administration. Now, those very same people are belittling the skeptics!_


Last wrote in his attack on Rowe, “Rowe’s response is worth reading in full because it is either an example of despicable dishonesty or breathtaking stupidity.”

Rowe:



> _What’s reprehensible, and cowardly, is your attempt to mischaracterize what I wrote, and deliberately misinform your readers. If I really wanted to discourage people from getting vaccinated, why would I admit to getting vaccinated myself? And why would I write the passage you deliberately omitted? Here it is again, lest your readers forget it. “Vaccines have saved more lives than any other advancement in the long history of medicine, and to your point, I got the shots the minute I was eligible. – Mike Rowe.”_


Last: _“_Rowe says he wants people to make their own decisions. Great. I celebrate everyone’s choices. But they should make them without Mike Rowe lying to them about the real things which happened in the real world._”_

Rowe concluded: _“_I’m happy to let the readers make up their own minds about who’s telling the truth. But let’s be clear about what you’ve done with your little slice of the Internet. You have ignored the point of my original post, omitted key passages regarding my actual position on vaccines, written a damning and fallacious headline, and picked a fight with a guy who just reminded six million people that the overwhelming majority of Americans currently hospitalized with COVID have not been vaccinated. Oh yeah, AND told them that he got the shot as soon as he was able. That was the point of my post, Jonathan. What was the point of yours?_”_


----------



## Melensdad

I saw Mike Rowe’s response yesterday and thought it was awesome.  The only thing I’d add is that while the vaccines are currently considered experimental, so are all the therapies.  

If someone gets Covid, and if they didn’t want an experimental vaccine, I’d have to wonder if they will accept treatment of an experimental treatment that is less effective than the experimental vaccine?


----------



## FrancSevin

Melensdad said:


> I saw Mike Rowe’s response yesterday and thought it was awesome.  The only thing I’d add is that while the vaccines are currently considered experimental, so are all the therapies.
> 
> If someone gets Covid, and if they didn’t want an experimental vaccine, I’d have to wonder if they will accept treatment of an experimental treatment that is less effective than the experimental vaccine?


Experimental therapies are like taking  acetaminophen instead of aspirin. Or more to the point, Aspirin relieved the head ache, will it relive joint pain? 

Therapies are generally accepted practices for one ailment, generally recognized as safe, used to experiment efficacy on another.  Experimental means that whilst there is a reasoned assumption,,,,,;  there is no definitive proof of efficacy or safety.

Big difference.

Now that we have had some time and a few studies, it may be reasonable to say the vaccines are safe. And add that they are effective.   But the FDA has not done so. So we are flying without a parachute.

I say, "Keep an open mind."  As Buzz Aldrin once commented, "_the mind is like a parachute.  If it is not open, it is unlikely to be of use_."


----------



## Melensdad

Therapies like ivermectin, like resmedivir, like this new Israeli treatment, like the plasma treatments, like steroids.  These are the treatments being given in hospitals (not all in the US) and with very mixed results.  We still see a high % of deaths of people who end up in the hospital, fortunately most people never get sick enough from Covid for them to go into the hospital.  Those who get put on ventilators are likely to never recover and die.  Those are the therapies being used today in hospitals.


----------



## Melensdad

For the immunocompromised people, perhaps a 3rd Covid shot as a booster:









						FDA Authorizes Third COVID Vaccine Dose For Immunocompromised People
					

The FDA has authorized a booster shot for immunocompromised people for whom two doses of the COVID-19 vaccine might not be enough protection.




					boston.cbslocal.com
				



*Third COVID Vaccine Booster Shot For Immunocompromised People Expected To Be Approved By FDA*​The FDA is expected to authorize a booster shot Thursday for immunocompromised people for whom two doses of the COVID-19 vaccine might not be enough protection, according to CBS News.​​*“It is imminent that we will be giving it to immune compromised,”* Dr. Anthony Fauci, the president’s chief medical adviser, told CBS This Morning...​​Even if the FDA approves it, the CDC would have to formally recommend the boosters in order for providers to start vaccinating.​​*About 3-percent of Americans adults have compromised immune systems**...*​​“We don’t feel at this particular point that, apart from the immune compromised, we don’t feel we need to give boosters right now. But, importantly, we are following this in real time, literally on a weekly and monthly basis, we’re following cohorts of individuals, elderly, younger individuals, people in nursing homes to determine if, in fact, the level of protection is starting to attenuate...​​If you’re eligible for a booster shot Dr. Fauci said it’s preferrable you *go with the same brand of vaccine you originally received.*​


----------



## FrancSevin

Melensdad said:


> Therapies like ivermectin, like resmedivir, like this new Israeli treatment, like the plasma treatments, like steroids.  These are the treatments being given in hospitals (not all in the US) and with very mixed results.  We still see a high % of deaths of people who end up in the hospital, fortunately most people never get sick enough from Covid for them to go into the hospital.  Those who get put on ventilators are likely to never recover and die.  Those are the therapies being used today in hospitals.


You do make it sound like all the "therapies" are all quack medicine.  I'm not sure that is entirely true.  Many Doctors on the ground have no political reason to put their patients at undue risk.  I'm betting the same is not true of our government and/or the agencies like the CDC and WHO.

I'm not sure what "mixed results" means. The vaccine may well be a good one but it also has "mixed results."  Considering the unusual advances implemented it would be very unlikely, statistically unlikely, that it did not.

Medical science is hardly exact.  The medical community generally snickers at Chiropractic.  And yet my doctor, a DO, went to Chiropractic college to improve his "therapies."

I'm not saying NO to any approach,  Just using well reasoned caution.


----------



## Melensdad

FrancSevin said:


> You do make it sound like all the "therapies" are all quack medicine.  I'm not sure that is entirely true.  Many Doctors on the ground have no political reason to put their patients at undue risk.  I'm betting the same is not true of our government and/or the agencies like the CDC and WHO.
> 
> I'm not sure what "mixed results" means. The vaccine may well be a good one but it also has "mixed results."  Considering the unusual advances implemented it would be very unlikely that it did not.
> 
> Medical science is hardly exact.  The medical community generally snickers at Chiropractic.  And yet my doctor, a DO, went to Chiropractic college to improve his "therapies."
> 
> I'm not saying NO to any approach,  Just using well reasoned caution.


Of the therapies I listed, and there are more, the one I'd want if I was hospitalized is the new treatment from Israel.  

I am optimistic that Ivermectin might work, but there are too many questions about it and not enough evidence to support it.  It appears that there might be some evidence to support Ivermectin as somewhat effective in early stages of Covid.  No actual medical studies support it.  

Several therapies in common use are medically ineffective on the majority of patients.  I'd suggest that is mixed results.  

One thing that I think we all need to do is to adapt to new information and new strains and try to figure out fact from fiction too.  Early on the world was disinfecting surfaces, we now know that the disease is airborne and the surface cleaning is close to meaningless_ (unless you lick surfaces)_.  Early on we didn't know a lot of things.  We know more now.  But we also are often STUCK on things like the mask debate . . . do they work?  do they not work?  Or do SOME of the masks work?  I think treatments may fall into the same category.  We need continuous study.

We know that Chicken Pox will infect 90+% of close contacts.
We know that the ORIGINAL strain, and a few earlier variants, will infect 20-30% of the close contacts.
We know that the DELTA strain will infect roughly 70% of close contacts.
We know that of those vaccinated with 2 dose vaccines are highly immune to Covid, even Delta, and those who are vaccinated and get Covid have much lower rates of complications than the unvaccinated.
We know that people mistakenly believe that Covid is far more deadly than it actually is.
We know that people mistakenly believe that Covid is far more serious to far more people than it actually is.
We know that people actually are at serious risk if they are part of a high risk category but if they are not part of those high risk groups then they have little to actually fear, other than fear stoked by the media.


----------



## FrancSevin

Whilst I am 74,,,, I am not part of any high risk group.

Parenthetically, I will assume masks don't work.  The highest hot spot in the state of Mo is Springfield. It is a liberal, young, athletic population with lots of outside air. It has had the toughest and longest mask mandate in the state and yet it's hospitals are full of COVID patients.

Go figure.

Your list is exactly of what I am saying. I can look at those items, facts if you will, and make a reasoned judgement.

Whilst not as deadly, the common flu vexed me every year.   I always had the symptoms for days  after the shot. Advised by many to have it despite this, the best experience I ever had getting the shot, was the ability to schedule the time I would be sick with the flu.


----------



## mla2ofus

As for the flu we take 1,000mg of vitamin C daily year round and seldom ever get it. Also we have never used hand sanitizers or any of that sort which my theory on it is that it helps keep our immune systems strong. It probably also helps that we live in a small town which to most others in the country is isolated.


----------



## Melensdad

Approximately 2.7% of the US population qualifies for the 3rd dose of a vaccine.

Cancer patients, organ transplant patients, some Rheumatoid Arthritis/Crones/etc patients (_depends upon the drugs used to control the RA_), and some other unnamed conditions.  No specific guidelines seem to have been released yet.  There are more meetings scheduled to release specific information to doctors, so I'd expect to hear more sometime mid-late next week.

There are several articles, here is just part of one of them.  Follow the link for the full article.  None seem to provide a comprehensive list of who would qualify or which drug therapies make you more immunosuppressed.  https://www.reuters.com/world/middl...mDeYITUrTxgJkhzoP1vPS9YdIXMoLeORP-eLJmlhRTi-0

U.S. FDA authorizes COVID-19 vaccine boosters for the immunocompromised​​Aug 13 (Reuters) - The U.S. Food and Drug Administration authorized a third dose of COVID-19 vaccines from Pfizer Inc (PFE.N) and Moderna Inc (MRNA.O) for people with compromised immune systems.​​The amended emergency use authorization paves the way for people who have had an organ transplant, or those with a similar level of weakened immune system, to get an extra dose.​​*"After a thorough review of the available data, the FDA determined that this small, vulnerable group may benefit from a third dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna vaccines,"* Janet Woodcock, U.S. FDA's acting commissioner, said in a tweet on Thursday.​​"Others who are fully vaccinated are adequately protected & do not need an additional dose of COVID-19 vaccine at this time."​​*The vulnerable group of patients make up less than 3% of U.S. adults*, Rochelle Walensky, director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), had said before the authorization.​


----------



## Melensdad

Public gatherings are bad.  

Unless you are a member of the political elite?  

Uh.  









						Martha's Vineyard Hit with Coronavirus Spike After Obama Party
					

The island of Martha's Vineyard experienced a spike in coronavirus cases this week after President Barack Obama's 60th birthday party.




					www.breitbart.com
				




Obama Variant: Martha’s Vineyard Hit with Coronavirus Spike After Superspreader Birthday Party​Charlie Spiering13 Aug 2021​





Ron Sachs-Pool/Getty Images​1:31​​The island of Martha’s Vineyard experienced a spike in coronavirus cases this week after President Barack Obama’s 60th birthday party last Saturday.​​*The Daily Mail reports that 63 people on Martha’s Vineyard have tested positive for the virus — the highest number of cases in a week on the island since April.*​​Hundreds of people attended the former President’s 60th birthday party at the Obama mansion on Martha’s Vineyard, including a swarm of A-list celebrities. The guest list included Beyoncé, Jay-Z, Tom Hanks, H.E.R., John Legend, and Alicia Keys.​​*Photos of the party showed many of the guests without masks, mingling, drinking, and dancing in close quarters.*​​The Tisbury boards of health spokesperson Maura Valley told the _Daily Mail_ it was “a little too early” to know whether the boost in cases was a direct result of Obama’s birthday party, but cases continue to rise following the event.​​Prior to the party, Obama and his staff tried to claim the event would be “scaled back” with just close family and friends as a result of the spread of the Delta variant of the coronavirus, but it was still a big party, with 300-400 people attending.​​*The Daily Mail also reported that six staffers tested positive at the Harbor view Hotel, where some of the celebrities attending the party stayed.*​


----------



## Ceee

And here we go again in Texas:









						Dozens of Texas hospitals are out of ICU beds as COVID-19 cases again overwhelm the state's capacity
					

"This surge is by far the fastest and most aggressive that we've seen," said the health authority for Austin and Travis County, who urged eligible Texans to get vaccinated.




					www.texastribune.org
				




""This surge is by far the fastest and most aggressive that we've seen," said the health authority for Austin and Travis County, who urged eligible Texans to get vaccinated."

"Dozens of Texas hospitals have run out of intensive care unit beds as COVID-19 surges faster than any other time during the pandemic, propelled by the new delta variant."

"At least 53 Texas hospitals have no available ICU capacity, according to numbers reported to the federal government during the week ending Aug. 5."


----------



## Melensdad

Ceee said:


> And here we go again in Texas:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dozens of Texas hospitals are out of ICU beds as COVID-19 cases again overwhelm the state's capacity
> 
> 
> "This surge is by far the fastest and most aggressive that we've seen," said the health authority for Austin and Travis County, who urged eligible Texans to get vaccinated.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.texastribune.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ""This surge is by far the fastest and most aggressive that we've seen," said the health authority for Austin and Travis County, who urged eligible Texans to get vaccinated."
> 
> "Dozens of Texas hospitals have run out of intensive care unit beds as COVID-19 surges faster than any other time during the pandemic, propelled by the new delta variant."
> 
> "At least 53 Texas hospitals have no available ICU capacity, according to numbers reported to the federal government during the week ending Aug. 5."


Not just Texas.  But the federal governments release of Covid + illegals is certainly hurting Texas.  Now Laredo cut a deal to pass the Covid + illegals to the major cities, which increases the spread of this variant.  

We know the media is UNDERreporting the breakthrough cases of Covid in fully vaccinated people.  Fortunately fully vaxxed people are still pretty well protected against Delta even if they test positive.  Only a tiny fraction of vaxxed people end up seriously ill.  Unvaccinated people have a bit more to worry about because, while Delta/Indian variant is no more deadly, it is infecting a lot of people and therefore we are seeing hospital cases climbing rapidly in some areas.    

Delta seems to infect 70-ish percent of the people who come into close contact with it.  Regular Covid transmission is far lower, roughly 20%.  Just for reference Chicken Pox is roughly 90%. Seasonal flu varies but 10-20% is reasonable.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

As I understand it the hospitals are out of "ICU beds" because they don't have the staff for those beds.  Not due to capacity or facility availability.

Words have meaning and they are easily manipulated to promote a narrative.


----------



## Melensdad

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq said:


> As I understand it the hospitals are out of "ICU beds" because they don't have the staff for those beds.  Not due to capacity or facility availability.
> 
> Words have meaning and they are easily manipulated to promote a narrative.


Locally, I don't find that to be true from my insiders in the hospital system.

That may be true in other areas?  Honestly I don't know.  I would love to see the data.


----------



## Ceee

Melensdad said:


> Not just Texas. But the federal governments release of Covid + illegals is certainly hurting Texas.


Yes, and I think that is the major problem in Texas and probably some of the other southern states that are experiencing this same problem.  



XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq said:


> hospitals are out of "ICU beds" because they don't have the staff for those beds. Not due to capacity or facility availability.


That may well be part of the problem, but, from what I've read, I still think a big part of the problem is facility capacity.  Once again, they're looking around their facilities and thinking about where they can add some beds.   From what I understand, some of the drugs to treat covid patients are in low supply.


----------



## Melensdad

Lots of stores, not much actual information.  All basically say the same thing.

BOOSTER shots for Covid will be recommended for EVERYONE. 

Originally news stores were out saying the shots would be for about 3% of the population that is seriously immunocompromised.  As of last evening sources, all traced back to a single Associated Press story, are saying that the FDA/CDC will be *authorizing booster shots for anyone who has been double vaccinated*. 

The timing of the Booster shot is reported to be 8 months after the person's 2nd shot.  I received my 2nd shot in February, so if the story is accurate, I will have the option of taking shot 3 during October.


---------------------------- uh oh? -------------------------









						Correct the record: outlets walk back heightened Covid-19 death figures in Texas
					

The Delta variant is surging in Texas, but not to the degree that some outlets are reporting




					justthenews.com
				




Correct the record: outlets walk back heightened Covid-19 death figures in Texas​The Delta variant is surging in Texas, but not to the degree that some outlets are reporting​A story claiming that the Covid-19 death rate in Texas hit a high not seen since March 2020 has been corrected.​​Axios had claimed that the Lone Star state's "seven-day coronavirus death rate reaches its highest levels since March 2020," a claim that was walked back on Monday. . .​​The Delta variant is currently surging in American southern states, including Texas. But, this is at least the second time in recent days that an outlet has been forced to correct false information presented about pandemic figures in Texas.​​*A significant error was published in the Texas Tribune last week, claiming that more than 5,800 children in the state were hospitalized during a single week of August. The piece was later corrected and now reads, "That number correctly referred to children hospitalized with COVID-19 since the pandemic began. In actuality, 783 children were admitted to Texas hospitals with COVID-19 between July 1 and Aug. 9 of this year." *. . .​


----------



## Ceee

Melensdad said:


> all traced back to a single Associated Press story, are saying that the FDA/CDC will be *authorizing booster shots for anyone who has been double vaccinated*.


I heard that on a Fox News podcast, but they quickly back tracked and said only the immune compromised people.



Melensdad said:


> *A significant error was published in the Texas Tribune last week, claiming that more than 5,800 children in the state were hospitalized during a single week of August. The piece was later corrected and now reads, "That number correctly referred to children hospitalized with COVID-19 since the pandemic began. In actuality, 783 children were admitted to Texas hospitals with COVID-19 between July 1 and Aug. 9 of this year." *. .


That's a pretty darn big mistake.  I'm not sure if it was just truly a mistake made by some rookie reporter, or if was a scare tactic used to encourage people to get the vaccine.  Either way, I don't like huge mistakes in reporting nor do I like scare tactics.


----------



## Doc

I just got a news blip on my phone saying Texas Gov. Greg Abbot tested positive for Covid-19


----------



## Melensdad

Yup.  Fully vaccinated.  Not showing symptoms.  But positive test.  





__





						Zerohedge
					

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero




					www.zerohedge.com


----------



## mla2ofus

i sometimes have serious doubts about the accuracy of some of the tests.


----------



## Melensdad

mla2ofus said:


> i sometimes have serious doubts about the accuracy of some of the tests.


Earlier in the disease cycle there were serious problems with the testing.  The higher the cycle count on the test the more sensitive it is, and some of the testing was done at very very high cycle counting which was giving a lot of false positives.  The testing procedures have been standardized for at least 6+ months and accuracy is far better.


----------



## FrancSevin

This time it is personal.  We lost a good employee to Covid-19.  Not the disease but the damn shot.

Under pressure from friends and family, she got the Moderna version.  Two weeks later she suffered a stroke from a blood clot in her brain.
Paralyzed on the right side. A scan indicated she had more than one and so she is now on blood thinners.

She is also in daily physical  therapy.

The woman is about 45 years old, in excellent health with no underlying issues. A working mom with several kids to raise, and one of our best operators.  Not only can she now not run a machine, they took away her drivers license.

Blood clots are one of the side effects of the Disease. They are also known effects of the vaccine. But it is unlikely you will see that in the news reports.  Or from the government who insists we all get a shot or we cannot work, associated freely, or  travel by air.

Think carefully before you swallow the Kool-aid. It should be a choice of what you are willing to risk.


----------



## m1west

Got the CORONA. When I was at the cabin last week with one son, the other one came over Friday, and started feeling ill, he left at that point but when he went to work the next morning feeling poorly ( sheriffs office ) he took a test then went home. The wife by Sunday was feeling it and me by Monday. The wife went and got tested yesterday as a formality, she gets the results tomorrow. Last night I had a headache and chills with no temperature. This morning I felt poorly but took some ibuprofen and now don't feel too bad. The wife has a cough and some phlegm with a low grade fever. Still able to do chores and play with the Caterpillar.


----------



## bczoom

Melensdad said:


> *A significant error was published in the Texas Tribune last week, claiming that more than 5,800 children in the state were hospitalized during a single week of August. The piece was later corrected and now reads, "That number correctly referred to children hospitalized with COVID-19 since the pandemic began. In actuality, 783 children were admitted to Texas hospitals with COVID-19 between July 1 and Aug. 9 of this year." *. . .


Note that it says "with COVID-19", not *DUE TO* Covid-19.  
They still play with numbers to fit the narrative.


----------



## Melensdad

bczoom said:


> Note that it says "with COVID-19", not *DUE TO* Covid-19.
> They still play with numbers to fit the narrative.


The website reporting it is a right wing website.  They often refer to it as the China Virus too.  So my guess is that it is just the bias of the website in how they worded the article.


----------



## Ceee

FrancSevin said:


> We lost a good employee to Covid-19.


That's a horrible situation for that woman to have to endure. 



m1west said:


> Got the CORONA. When I was at the cabin last week


I wish you and your family well too.

Edit to add for m1west:  I recall Doc posting what I thought was some really good info from a respiratory therapist when he had a family member contract covid.   I can't find it right now, but maybe somebody else can.  It might help your family some.


----------



## m1west

Ceee said:


> That's a horrible situation for that woman to have to endure.
> 
> 
> I wish you and your family well too.
> 
> Edit to add for m1west:  I recall Doc posting what I thought was some really good info from a respiratory therapist when he had a family member contract covid.   I can't find it right now, but maybe somebody else can.  It might help your family some.


So far so good, lots of liquids and some ibuprofen. Feels like I have a fever at times, but when checked I don't have a fever. Little bit of a plugged head.


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> So far so good, lots of liquids and some ibuprofen. Feels like I have a fever at times, but when checked I don't have a fever. Little bit of a plugged head.


Hopefully it just remains a mild case.  Statistically that is what should happen.  

Remember, fatality rate is TINY.  Hospitalization rate is also reasonably low.  Most people who have any complications from the disease have other issues.  Typically 2 or more other issues like obesity, hypertension, pulmonary issues, diabetes, compromised immune system, advanced age, etc.  Covid poses serious risks to people who have the above issues but almost insignificant risks to normally healthy individuals.


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> Hopefully it just remains a mild case.  Statistically that is what should happen.
> 
> Remember, fatality rate is TINY.  Hospitalization rate is also reasonably low.  Most people who have any complications from the disease have other issues.  Typically 2 or more other issues like obesity, hypertension, pulmonary issues, diabetes, compromised immune system, advanced age, etc.  Covid poses serious risks to people who have the above issues but almost insignificant risks to normally healthy individuals.


Honestly, unless I have a relapse tonight, I think I am getting a lot better, the worse symptom so far is last night and this morning I had chills and a headache, without a fever. Coffee and ibuprofen and I'm good to go. I think tomorrow I will work on the Cat. The wife I think got it a little worse, she got the symptoms I just described with chest congestion, we are keeping an eye on that. Typhoid Tyler that gave it to us has mild symptoms also.


----------



## pirate_girl

I've a good friend whose sister just posted this on Facebook.
Wow. ? ❤


----------



## Melensdad

pirate_girl said:


> I've a good friend whose sister just posted this on Facebook.
> Wow. ? ❤
> 
> View attachment 139463View attachment 139464View attachment 139465


Sadly so many people don't see how misleading this is.

Yes, vaccinated can still get Covid.  But data shows they get it at a far lower rate, by a high order of magnitude lower.
Yes, vaccinated can still die from Covid.  But again, at a monumentally lower rate.

I don't believe in vaccine mandates or telling others they need a vaccine. 

But we need to honest about the data.  And the data is evolving.  What was true about the original Covid was not necessarily true about the Alpha variant.  What was true about the Alpha variant is not necessarily true about the Delta variant.


----------



## pirate_girl

U.S. Sens. King, Wicker and Hickenlooper test positive for COVID-19
					

King said he was tested a day after he began feeling ill, his office announced. Wicker is in isolation, his spokesperson said Thursday.




					www.13abc.com
				




WASHINGTON (AP) — Three senators said Thursday they have tested positive for COVID-19 despite being vaccinated, a high-profile collection of breakthrough cases that comes as the highly infectious delta variant spreads rapidly across the United States.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Why COVID-19 Is Here to Stay, and Why You Shouldn’t Worry About It









						Why COVID-19 Is Here to Stay, and Why You Shouldn’t Worry About It
					

The pandemic is on its way out, but SARS-CoV-2 is here to stay. Here is why it's not a problem.




					cspicenter.org


----------



## Melensdad

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq said:


> Why COVID-19 Is Here to Stay, and Why You Shouldn’t Worry About It
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why COVID-19 Is Here to Stay, and Why You Shouldn’t Worry About It
> 
> 
> The pandemic is on its way out, but SARS-CoV-2 is here to stay. Here is why it's not a problem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cspicenter.org


Most people don't actually read the pertinent parts of long articles.

As most of the folks on this forum are 50+ years old, and many 2 decades older than 50, I'd cite this quotation from your article:

Elderly people will be the exception because their immune system is compromised, so for them *it will make sense to get a vaccine booster on a regular basis* and I expect that it’s what most of them will do, as they already do against the flu. Once it has become endemic, *which again will take a few years or even decades* for the transition to be fully over, SARS-CoV-2 will become just another respiratory virus and will never cause the damages it has just wrought on us again.​


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

I think the important point in the article is that this is no longer a "pandemic"  - it is an "endemic" and we have to learn to live with it.  Which may include routine vaccines (just like the flu) is you are an old timer.


----------



## Melensdad

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq said:


> I think the important point in the article is that this is no longer a "pandemic"  - it is an "endemic" and we have to learn to live with it.  Which may include routine vaccines (just like the flu) is you are an old timer



I guess I thought most people already realized that it is in the process of changing from pandemic to seasonal endemic, even if the media is still calling it a pandemic.   But that is essentially the point highlighted by the excerpt that I posted above.  Annual boosters for everyone as this transitions.

-----------------------------------------------------------

My sister & brother-in-law now have covid.  Both are healthy, early/mid-50's and neither have any risk factors.  Generally mild symptoms.  Sister tested positive 7 days ago, her husband 5 days ago.  They are generally following the FLCCC covid protocol, temperature and O2 checks daily to try to catch a problem before it turns into an issue.  Doing the iodine gargle a couple times a day too.  And of course they have been taking vitamin D.


----------



## m1west

just checked our O2 and heart rate.

mine O2-98%. Heart rate 64
wife O2 96 %.   Heart rate 92
Her heart rate seems high? and O2 in the normal range but a little low. Maybe her body is increasing heart rate to elevate the O2 level ??


----------



## Melensdad

Your wife's O2 seems a little low.  Watch that.

And heart rate is so variable that I couldn't say if it is high because walking up a flight of stairs will increase it.  I don't know what her average heart rate is to compare it to.


----------



## m1west

Another test I found, is to hold your breath and time it until you can't hold it anymore. I went to 40 seconds and she went to 20 seconds. 30 seconds is considered normal and seek medical attention if 10 seconds or below.


----------



## Ceee

Melensdad said:


> following the FLCCC covid protocol,


Great info, thanks for the link .  That's the first time I've heard of an iodine gargle.


----------



## m1west

*I seem to be on the road to recovery, The wife is still getting her ass kicked with a persistent fever of around 101. Her breathing seems to be OK but has Nausia and brain fog. She got it 8 days ago, I'm hoping she starts beating it soon. as I don't want her immune system to wain and take a turn for the worse*


----------



## Melensdad

Ceee said:


> Great info, thanks for the link .  That's the first time I've heard of an iodine gargle.


As my dentists friends would say, be careful of the iodine gargle unless you want stained teeth.  Also tested were commercial antiseptic mouthwashes like LISTERINE and those work too!

I have linked to them in the past, at least their main website. They are the strong advocates of early use of ivermectin.


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> *I seem to be on the road to recovery, The wife is still getting her ass kicked with a persistent fever of around 101. Her breathing seems to be OK but has Nausia and brain fog. She got it 8 days ago, I'm hoping she starts beating it soon. as I don't want her immune system to wain and take a turn for the worse*


You may want to have her start to gargle with antiseptic Listerine mouthwash 3 times a day, it decreased the viral load and helps prevent it from going into the lungs.  You can make a diluted nasal spray with Listerine and water, or hydrogen peroxide and water and use the nasal spray 2 to 3 times a day too.  Much of the virus cells seem to be in the mucous of the nose and mouth, and you don't want that being inhaled into the lungs.  Antiseptic solutions can dramatical reduce the viral levels in the mouth and nose.


----------



## Melensdad

70% of the calls to the Mississippi poison control hotline are due to people ingesting animal ivermectin.  
85% of those are people with mild ivermectin poisoning.

WTF?


----------



## Ceee

Melensdad said:


> are due to people ingesting animal ivermectin.


I had to go read about this one.  I think that's one of those Bring on the Stupid things.









						Calls in Alabama over ivermectin poisoning on track to nearly triple in 2021, poison center says
					

BIRMINGHAM, Ala. (WIAT) — Calls to Alabama’s only poison control hotline over ivermectin, primarily used as an animal dewormer but inaccurately rumored to treat COVID-19, are on track t…




					www.cbs42.com
				




"Calls to Alabama’s only poison control hotline over ivermectin, primarily used as an animal dewormer but inaccurately rumored to treat COVID-19, are on track to triple this year, an official says."


Melensdad said:


> You can make a diluted nasal spray with Listerine and water,


What is the ratio for that?


----------



## Melensdad

Ceee said:


> What is the ratio for that?


Honestly I have no clue, I've not bothered to look it up.  But if I get Covid it will be on my TO DO list.


----------



## Melensdad

No big surprises here.

Vaccines for covid tend to lose efficacy over time because the disease is mutating.  Originally the vaccines were over 90% effective at stopping Covid, now they are reduced by 1/3rd and in the 66% range against the Delta variant of Covid.  So that is the bad news.  The good news is that it is still very highly effective (over 95%) at keeping people from going to the hospital even if they get Delta.






__





						Vaccine Efficacy Diminished as Delta Arose, CDC Report Shows
					





					www.msn.com
				





Vaccine Efficacy Diminished as Delta Arose, CDC Report Shows​(Bloomberg) -- The effectiveness of Covid-19 vaccines among front-line workers declined to 66% after the delta variant became dominant, compared with 91% before it arose, according to a report from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

The vaccines are still protective, the CDC said, and the finding must be interpreted with caution, as vaccine effectiveness might wane over time and the estimates of efficacy were imprecise.

“Although these interim findings suggest a moderate reduction in the effectiveness of Covid-19 vaccines in preventing infection, the sustained two-thirds reduction in infection risk underscores the continued importance and benefits of Covid-19 vaccination,” researchers wrote in the agency’s Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report.

The findings echo earlier evidence from Israel and the U.K. suggesting Covid vaccines lost some potency in preventing infections over time as the delta variant spread. These and other research results will be under scrutiny next week as CDC advisers weigh the Biden administration’s plan to administer booster doses to most vaccine recipients in the U.S.

The booster campaign, still awaiting the sign-off of the Food and Drug Administration, is set to begin Sept. 20. CDC’s Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices will consider the extra-dose plan during a two-day meeting that starts Monday.  

The finding of diminished effectiveness when delta was the dominant virus strain comes with an important caveat: The range of that estimate is highly uncertain. Researchers reported 95% confidence that the efficacy was between 26% and 84% in that period.

The observational study tracked more than 4,000 health-care workers, first responders, and other front-line personnel in eight U.S. locations across six states from December 2020 to August 2021. They were tested weekly for Covid infection, and about 83% were vaccinated. 

About two-thirds of those vaccinated had received the Pfizer Inc.-BioNTech SE shot, 2% received Johnson & Johnson’s, and the rest received the Moderna Inc. vaccine.

Overall, vaccinations were estimated to be 80% effective in preventing infection during the study period.


----------



## Melensdad

Why is Florida so far ahead of other states?

This is THE treatment that we know actually works.  Ivermectin might work, if administered early.  But this actually works.






__





						Zerohedge
					

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero




					www.zerohedge.com
				





Florida Surpasses 10,000 Monoclonal Antibody Treatments​_Authored by Jannis Falkenstern via The Epoch Times,_

*The state of Florida has administrered more than 10,000 doses of the monoclonal antibodies treatment at state-sponsored sites since since Florida began rolling out the program two weeks ago*, the office of Gov. Ron DeSantis (R) told The Epoch Times.





*Demand for the treatment is high and is expected to go higher as word gets out and new sites are continuing to open throughout the state,* Christina Pushaw, the governor’s press secretary, said.

The 10,000 doses administered at state-sponsored sites do not include treatment administrered at infusion centers at clinics and hospitals around the state.

Baptist Health South Florida’s Dr. Oscar Hernandez says he refers five to six patients for the treatment every day.



> “The state is doing their part,” Hernandez said. *“Doctors need to be more proactive in recommending the monoclonals to high-risk patients who test positive for COVID-19.”*


He said people need to know their options after they test positive for COVID-19. He recommends a fact sheet be distributed to patients at drive-through testing sites.

COVID-19 is the disease caused by the CCP (Chinese Communist Party) virus, commonly known as the novel coronavirus.

Fauci Touts Effectiveness of Monoclonal Antibodies​Tuesday, the White House Chief Medical Adviser, Dr. Anthony Fauci touted the effectiveness of Monoclonal Antibodies. He estimatesd that the treatment could reduce hospitalization by up to 85 percent. Fauci encouraged anyone with suppressed immune systems as well as other mitigating factors take advantage of the treatment.​​


> *“Bottom line is this is a very effective intervention for COVID-19. It is underutilized, and we recommend strongly that we utilize this to its fullest,” *Fauci said at the press conference on Tuesday.​


Flagler County Health Department Administrator, Bob Snyder received his COVID-19 vaccine in January 2021, but because of an underlying health condition contracted COVID-19 about six weeks ago.​​Initially, he did not know what was wrong because the symptoms were so mild, he thought he was just “run down” from his busy work life.​​


> “It was sunny and 95 degrees and I’m freezing,” Snyder said. “I thought to myself, I’ve got to go to bed.”​


Snyder said it occurred to him that he may be one of the breakout cases he had read about and went to the local pharmacy and bought an in-home COVID-19 test. It was positive. That prompted Snyder to call a colleague who is a doctor. The doctor had two words for him: Monoclonal Antibodies.​​


> “I went to my local emergency room, and they gave me the Monoclonals by IV,” he said.​*“Within 24 hours I was 50 percent back to normal and by 72 hours I was 100 percent back.”*​


Florida Resident Feels Blessed to Have Access to Treatment​Broward County resident Renee Post sends her 70-year-old mother to a skilled nursing facility during the day while she works. The facility tested residents for COVID-19 every 36 hours.​​


> “I was picking my mother up from the skilled nursing facility and they wouldn’t let us leave until after my mother tested negative for COVID,” Post said.​*“Then the nurse came running out to my car and told us we couldn’t leave because my mom had tested positive for COVID.”*​


Post said she recalled seeing a news report on the monoclonal antibodies and knew what she needed to do.​​


> “I had her transported to Broward Health and they were well organized and took her right away and in two hours she walked out,” she said.​


Post said that her mother had the “sniffles” the next day but otherwise you could not tell she had even been sick. Post said her mother is obese and suffers from a “myriad of health problems.”​​


> *“She would have been another statistic if I had not taken her and known about the monoclonals,” *she said.​“I feel so blessed to have had access to this treatment for her and I know if we had waited, we would’ve had a different outcome.”​


Post said her mother was unvaccinated because her mother had a urinary tract infection and other underlying conditions.​​Post said she works primarily from home but has coworkers internationally who have been affected by the virus.​​


> *“I see what it [the virus] can do,”* she said.* “I have lost 22 co-workers in India.”*​


If she were to contract COVID-19, Post said she will seek the treatment for herself because she sees “what a miracle” the treatment is.​​This week DeSantis is opening more treatment sites, inckuding one at The Villages, a retirement community in central Florida.​​Pushaw, the governor’s press secretary, said of the 10,000 treatment landmark: “If even 50 percent of those people were saved from needing hospitalization, that is 5,000 patients who would otherwise have been hospitalized—a huge number, almost a third of our total COVID hospital census… This rollout is definitely saving lives.”​​*The monoclonal antibodies can prevent hospitalization or death in high-risk patients with COVID-19 and is widely available in Florida. I*ndividuals 12 years and older, who are high-risk and have contracted or been exposed to COVID-19, are eligible for this treatment. Treatment is free and vaccination status does not matter.​​Similarly in Texas, Gov. Greg Abbott set up sites around the state beginning November 2020 and used Bamlanivimab, the Eli Lilly & Company monoclonal antibody therapy. It was the first to garner FDA approval followed by Regeneron.​​_*When former President Donald Trump made a full recovery from COVID-19 after using monoclonals, he instructed the federal government to buy hundreds of thousands of doses of the two monoclonal treatment drugs and allocate supplies to the states, which would in turn determine distribution to hospitals and healthcare facilities. The doses were allocated to states and U.S. territories based on their share of hospitalized and infected patients.*_​


----------



## Melensdad

Uh, and despite the media condemnation, it appears that Dr Fauci approves!










						Fauci recommends COVID-19 treatment DeSantis was slammed for promoting
					

Dr. Anthony Fauci claimed on Tuesday that an antibody treatment previously championed by Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis can reduce the risk of COVID-19 hospitalization or death by 70% to 85%.




					news.yahoo.com
				






Fauci recommends COVID-19 treatment DeSantis was slammed for promoting​Asher NotheisThu, August 26, 2021, 12:07 PM






Fauci recommends COVID-19 treatment DeSantis was slammed for promoting






Dr. Anthony Fauci claimed on Tuesday that an antibody treatment previously championed by Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis can reduce the risk of COVID-19 hospitalization or death by 70% to 85%.

The director for the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases showcased three different monoclonal antibodies during a White House press briefing that when injected into a person target the spike protein of COVID-19. Fauci explained that the treatments could lessen infection symptoms and prevent hospitalization.

Fauci is not the first person to recommend the antibodies, as DeSantis endorsed the same treatments in early August. An investigation from the Associated Pressquestioned the financial ties between DeSantis's top donor and the company producing the antibodies, casting doubt on the governor's motivations for promoting the treatments.

DeSantis sent a letter to the Associated Press after the report was published, criticizing the outlet for implying that his support for the treatment was politically driven.

"You succeeded in publishing a misleading, clickbait headline about one of your political opponents, but at the expense of deterring individuals infected with COVID from seeking life-saving treatment, which will cost lives," the governor's letter said. "Was it worth it?"

RISE IN COVID-19 HOSPITALIZATIONS OF PREGNANT WOMEN ALARMS DOCTORS

Products from companies Eli Lilly, Regeneron, and GSK/Vir were endorsed by Fauci as valid antibody treatments. All three have received emergency use authorizations from the Food and Drug Administration, meaning that adults and children ages 12 and up are eligible to receive the antibodies.

If taken early after testing positive, a person is far less likely to be hospitalized from the disease, Fauci said.

"So, bottom line is: This is a very effective intervention for COVID-19," Fauci said. "It is underutilized, and we recommend strongly that we utilize this to its fullest."


----------



## Melensdad

Indiana is just one state.  Overall we have just over 50% of the adults vaccinated, that means we are reasonably low on the scale of vaccinations.  Here are some  interesting points.









						Holcomb extends public health emergency order as delta variant spreads, positivity rate spikes
					

Indiana Gov. Eric Holcomb extended the public health emergency order for the 18th time as the delta variant and COVID-19 hospitalizations surge across the Hoosier State.




					www.nwitimes.com
				




Indiana Gov. Eric Holcomb extended the public health emergency order for the 18th time as the delta variant and COVID-19 hospitalizations surge across the Hoosier State.​​He renewed the public health emergency for another 30 days, through Sept. 30. He also extended an executive order that "allows for ongoing conversations with healthcare stakeholders to evaluate pertinent information that supports hospitals during the current COVID surge."​​Holcomb has been in talks with executives at hospitals, which have been seeing increased patient volumes and higher intensive care unit utilization across the state, almost entirely among the unvaccinated....​
​Since last March, more than 855,000 Hoosiers have been infected by the coronavirus and more than 14,000 have died. ​The emergency order ensures Holcomb has the power to take steps to minimize the spread of COVID-19, such as by temporarily suspending regulations, directing state agencies to provide emergency serves and marshaling government resources to cope with the public health disaster. It also qualifies the state for federal funding.​​About 3 million of 5.7 million eligible Hoosiers are fully vaccinated against the virus  ... Only 52.4% of Indiana residents eligible for the vaccine shots are currently fully vaccinated, according to the governor's emergency orders. ​​The 7-day positivity rate soared from 2.1% two months ago ... to 10.9% today.  The virus is now largely afflicting the unvaccinated, according to Indiana Department of Health data.​​A total of 981 of the 1,000 residents admitted to the hospital to be treated for coronavirus on Aug. 15 were unvaccinated, according to the order. A total of 189 of the 195 Hoosier COVID-19 patients admitted to intensive care units were unvaccinated, as were 67 of the 71 deaths.​


----------



## Melensdad

6 months and a few days ago I got my 2nd Moderna shot.  

10 minutes ago I got my 3rd jab from Moderna.  They said expect similar symptoms.  5 minutes after the shot my arm started hurting.  Seems to have calmed a bit but it is sore.


----------



## Doc

You got your 3rd jab already.   It had not been approved by FDA yet.  I'm surprised they allow the third one.   What made you go for it so soon?



> The booster campaign, still awaiting the sign-off of the Food and Drug Administration, is set to begin Sept. 20. CDC’s Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices will consider the extra-dose plan during a two-day meeting that starts Monday.


----------



## Melensdad

Doc said:


> You got your 3rd jab already.   It had not been approved by FDA yet.  I'm surprised they allow the third one.   *What made you go for it so soon?*


Yup.  Got it yesterday at 5pm CST. * I'm immunosuppressed so I was advised to get a booster as soon as it was available to me. * It has been 6 months since I was fully vaccinated.  Meets the minimum time delay between shots.  (_FDA is debating on 5 months from the 2nd jab_).

My B-I-L and S-I-L in New Mexico both got their 3rd boosters last week.  Some states are actually inviting immunocompromised, elderly, etc to come in for their 3rd shots.

I know have 3 entries on my CDC covid card.


----------



## pirate_girl

The University of Toledo has just announced that all students and faculty must be vaccinated or granted an exemption.




__





						UToledo Announces COVID-19 Vaccine Requirement | UToledo News
					

UToledo students and employees need to upload proof of vaccination to the University’s secure online portal or have an approved exemption for medical reasons or sincerely held philosophical or religious beliefs before Nov. 15.




					news.utoledo.edu
				





Also, there is a chiropractor in Venice, Florida who has hundreds of school kids/parents lining up for signing  mask opt-out forms.








						Venice chiropractor signing forms to opt-out children from wearing a mask in Sarasota County schools
					

Venice chiropractor signing medical mask exemptions for Sarasota County school students.




					www.mysuncoast.com


----------



## m1west

m1west said:


> *I seem to be on the road to recovery, The wife is still getting her ass kicked with a persistent fever of around 101. Her breathing seems to be OK but has Nausia and brain fog. She got it 8 days ago, I'm hoping she starts beating it soon. as I don't want her immune system to wain and take a turn for the worse*


I am now in week 3 with the delta variant, I got all the advertised symptoms, plus for me there is a weird anxiety that goes with it, I'm getting a little better each day, but got reminded yesterday that you can't over do it. I did some house work and laundry. When I was almost finished I got the sweats again that lasted a few hours.
 The wife wasn't as lucky as me,( 51 years old with no underlying conditions ) I took her to the ER last week twice. The second time they admitted her with an O2 level of 90. After a CAT scan she was diagnosed with the COVID pneumonia. They put her on Rendesivire for a few days until her liver function went bad and they had to stop. She is breathing on her own now with a 94 O2 level. She should get discharged later this week.
 I do have respect for this thing, its a worthy opponent.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Melensdad said:


> I know have 3 entries on my CDC covid card.


You are going to have a lot more.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

It appears Monoclonal Antibodies are the only working cure.  Vaccines are a little bit better than not being vaccinated.

Kind of wish I had gone out and caught the first variant - just to have those juicy natural anti-bodies.


----------



## mla2ofus

M1, hope your wife comes thru this OK. Tell her there's some here that are praying for her.


----------



## Melensdad

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq said:


> You are going to have a lot more.


As I have said, those of us with suppressed immune systems have something to worry about with this disease.


----------



## Ceee

m1west said:


> The wife wasn't as lucky as me,( 51 years old with no underlying conditions ) I took her to the ER last week twice. The second time they admitted her with an O2 level of 90. After a CAT scan she was diagnosed with the COVID pneumonia.


I hate that for you two, especially your wife.  I sure hope she gets kicks the stuff quickly.

This question may be too personal, so feel free not to answer.  Were either of you or Tyler (think that's your son's name) vaccinated?


----------



## Ceee

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2021-09-01/us-covid-vaccination-rates-climb-in-august
		


"Nearly 14 million Americans got their first dose of a coronavirus vaccine in August, a steep rise from July, White House officials said Tuesday."

"The statistic is a sign that vaccine skepticism may be waning, as the highly contagious Delta variant continues to fuel case surges across the United States."

"We've accelerated the pace of first shots. In August, we got over 14 million. That's almost 4 million more first shots in August compared to the prior month, July," White House COVID-19 response coordinator Jeff Zients said during a news conference.
"Back in mid-July, we were averaging 500,000 vaccinations per day. Today, we're averaging 900,000," Zients added. "That's an 80 percent increase in the number of shots we're getting into arms each and every day."

.....
Just my opinion:
I'm thinking that the statistical data that we've been seeing on hospitalizations for the vaccinated vs the non-vaccinated has really changed some people's minds about getting the vaccination.  Maybe the FDA giving the full approval for the Pfizer vaccine has helped some too.


----------



## m1west

Ceee said:


> I hate that for you two, especially your wife.  I sure hope she gets kicks the stuff quickly.
> 
> This question may be too personal, so feel free not to answer.  Were either of you or Tyler (think that's your son's name) vaccinated?


no one was vaccinated, but I guess we are now, the hard way.


----------



## m1west

mla2ofus said:


> M1, hope your wife comes thru this OK. Tell her there's some here that are praying for her.


thanks


----------



## m1west

For me the 1st week was a walk in the park, 2nd week not so much.


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> For me the 1st week was a walk in the park, 2nd week not so much.


Glad to hear you are both showing some signs of improvement, please keep us posted.


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> Glad to hear you are both showing some signs of improvement, please keep us posted.


I have turned a corner, no longer sweating 24/7 and actually cleaned up here a little, took a shower and put on real clothes for the first time in a while, The wife is still in the hospital, breathing without oxygen but this morning told me that her Lymph nodes in her neck and arm pits are severely swollen. The Kaiser hospital she is in keeps trying to send her home. I told her if she is not ready to refuse so she did. I do expect she should come home in a few days though.


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> I have turned a corner, no longer sweating 24/7 and actually cleaned up here a little, took a shower and put on real clothes for the first time in a while, The wife is still in the hospital, breathing without oxygen but this morning told me that* her Lymph nodes in her neck and arm pits are severely swollen.* The Kaiser hospital she is in keeps trying to send her home. I told her if she is not ready to refuse so she did. I do expect she should come home in a few days though.


That is an unusual but not unknown side effect of Covid.

This may give you a bit of insight:








						Are Swollen Lymph Nodes Under the Jaw a Sign of COVID-19?
					

Can COVID-19 or a COVID-19 vaccine cause a swollen lymph node in the neck or under the jaw? Here's what research shows.




					www.healthline.com
				




And this notice from Mass. General Hospital:




__





						The implications of swollen lymph nodes following COVID-19 vaccination
					

The implications of swollen lymph nodes following COVID-19 vaccination




					www.massgeneral.org


----------



## Ceee

Melensdad said:


> 10 minutes ago I got my 3rd jab from Moderna. They said expect similar symptoms. 5 minutes after the shot my arm started hurting. Seems to have calmed a bit but it is sore.


I just heard something about the third vaccine/booster having a little worse symptoms than the 2nd vaccine.  Was a sore arm all you had to deal with?


----------



## Melensdad

Ceee said:


> I just heard something about the third vaccine/booster having a little worse symptoms than the 2nd vaccine.  Was a sore arm all you had to deal with?


yes, it was less sore than the first time and no other side effects.  Sadly the lovely Mrs_Bob had a full day of 'honey do' chores lined up for me for the next day and I had no reason not to do them!


----------



## Ceee

Melensdad said:


> yes, it was less sore than the first time and no other side effects. Sadly the lovely Mrs_Bob had a full day of 'honey do' chores lined up for me for the next day and I had no reason not to do them!


good to know, thanks


----------



## m1west

I had my first cup of coffee in a week this morning, went outside for a few hours to try and get some yard work done and water some plants on there last legs, since they have been ignored for the better part of the month. I made it through without breaking down. The wife is also scheduled to come home today sometime and figured I better get ahead of it. Her O2 is good even after walking, Her CAT scan shows massive improvement in her lungs so after some home rest she should be good also. As bad as it was, I still believe that the world should not have shut down for it. If they left everything alone in the beginning I think the same outcome would have happened anyway, only it would have happened a Long time ago. More therapeutic options should be available.


----------



## Melensdad

Interesting BULL$#!T about Ivermectin. 

While it is not a proven drug for Covid treatment, there is strong evidence that it may be an effective EARLY STAGE therapy for Covid, taken in pill form (not horse paste).  There are HUMAN and VETERINARY versions of this drug and there are legal ways to get the HUMAN version!





__





						Zerohedge
					

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero




					www.zerohedge.com
				



Rolling Stone 'Horse Dewormer' Hit-Piece Debunked After Hospital Says No Ivermectin Overdoses​After Joe Rogan announced that he'd kicked Covid in just a few days using a cocktail of drugs, including Ivermectin - an anti-parasitic prescribed for humans for over 35 years, with over 4 billion doses administered (and most recently as a Covid-19 treatment), the left quickly started mocking Rogan for having taken a 'horse dewormer' due to its dual use in livestock.​​Rolling Stone's Jon Blistein led the charge:​​

​​On Friday, _Rolling Stone_'s Peter Wade took another stab - publishing a hit piece claiming that Oklahoma ERs were overflowing with people 'overdosing on horse dewormer.'​​It was suspect from the beginning.​​The report, sourced to local Oaklahoma outlet _KFOR_'s Katelyn Ogle, cites Oklahoma ER doctor Dr. Jason McElyea - claimed that *people overdosing on ivermectin horse dewormer are causing emergency rooms to be "so backed up that gunshot victims were having hard times getting"* *access to health facilities. *​​*

*​​


> _As people take the drug, McElyea said patients have arrived at hospitals with negative reactions like nausea, vomiting, muscle aches, and cramping — or even loss of sight._​_“*The scariest one that I’ve heard of and seen is people coming in with vision loss*,” the doctor said. -Rolling Stone_​


*Except, the article provided zero evidence* *for McElyea's claims*, causing people to start asking questions.​​And while neither _KFOR_ or _Rolling Stone_ mention the hospital McElyea worked for, *NHS Sequoyah, located in Sallisaw, Oklahoma -* *just issued a statement disavowing McElyea's claims, which pops up when you visit their website*.​​It reads:​​


> _Although Dr. Jason McElyea is not an employee of NHS Sequoyah, he is affiliated with a medical staffing group that provides coverage for our emergency room._​_With that said, Dr. *McElyea has not worked at our Sallisaw location in over 2 months.*_​_*NHS Sequoyah has not treated any patients due to complications related to taking ivermectin. This includes not treating any patients for ivermectin overdose.*_​_All patients who have visited our emergency room have received medical attention as appropriate. *Our hospital has not had to turn away any patients seeking emergency care.*_​_We want to reassure our community that *our staff is working hard to provide quality healthcare to all patients*. We appreciate the opportunity to clarify this issue and as always, we value our community’s support._​




​​*What about the rest of the state?*​​According to Scott Schaeffer, managing director of the Oklahoma Center for Poison and Drug Information, "*Since the beginning of May, we’ve received reports of 11 people being exposed to ivermectin*," he told the _NY Daily News_ (which still pushed the 'ivermectin overdoses' story despite this fact).​​Meanwhile, this horseshit story has also been picked up by the far-left _Business Insider _and _The Independent_, as well as _The Guardian_, among other notable outlets.​​*

*​​And of course, the story was breathlessly parroted:​​

​​

​​

​​

​​McElyea is also listed as working at Integris Grove Hospital in Grove, OK as a general family practitioner - _not_ in the ER. A phone call to them provided no insight as to any ivermectin overdoses, however the gentleman who answered the phone sounded quite amused. What's more, *Grove, OK - with a population of 7,129, had just 14 aggravated assaults in all of 2019* according to the FBI's latest data. We somehow doubt that 'gunshot victims were lining up outside the ER,' while just 11 ivermectin related hospital cases have been reported in the entire state since the beginning of May.​


----------



## m1west

Learned something else through this, If you have an HMO for medical, you are NOT in charge. First the wife was discharged after the first ER visit with me protesting, sent home with O2 level of 92, knowing she had COVID Pneumonia.Then had to take her back in 2 days with O2 at 88, as soon as she was in the system after setting in a chair for 24 hours in ER, 2 days treatment with Remdesivir and her liver wouldn't take it so they discontinued and started lobbying to send her home, this time we refused and resulted in a heated argument with her doctor on the phone, where I questioned there motivations and reminded them of what had just transpired to this point and we were not going to start over again in the ER just because they want to save money. They relented and after a couple more days she is home in much better condition than getting kicked out after 2 days.
My experience with my Kaiser Dr.  Dr. I have covid as my son and wife were tested and my wife is in the hospital, Dr. you need to get tested.
I asked him if he could prescribe Hydroxichloraquine or another anti viral to ease my symptoms. Dr. those are experimental drugs and I can't prescribe. 
Me its been around for 80 years and widely used as a propolactic, what is the worse thing that could happen? it won't help? Besides the vaccine is also experimental and you are pushing that.
Dr. Im not prescribing it.
Me FU#$%K you then, what good are you.
Call ended. 
I would suggest everyone take a good look at who they are paying there money to for medical coverage. Corporate hospitals have corporate doctors, and they are not your best friend, they are the hospitals friend. Kaiser is done as soon as I can find a private practice Dr. willing to take us.


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> . . .
> My experience with my Kaiser Dr.  Dr. I have covid as my son and wife were tested and my wife is in the hospital, Dr. you need to get tested.
> I asked him if he could prescribe Hydroxichloraquine or another anti viral to ease my symptoms. Dr. those are experimental drugs and I can't prescribe.
> Me its been around for 80 years and widely used as a propolactic, what is the worse thing that could happen? it won't help? Besides the vaccine is also experimental and you are pushing that.
> Dr. Im not prescribing it.
> Me FU#$%K you then, what good are you.
> Call ended.


I have posted the link to the FLCCC a few times in this thread.  They have doctors around the nation that WILL prescribe Ivermectin in the EARLY STAGES of Covid.  If I get Covid, and clearly I'm trying not to, I will be contacting one of the FLCCC doctors to start treatment.


----------



## m1west

Wife has been home for a dyad on day 2 now, She is doing great and happy to be home. I have been sleeping 12 hour night instead of my normal 8 hour sleep pattern. I get a little better each day.


----------



## Melensdad

Now doctors are pushing back against the AMA which does not want Ivermectin prescribed and the AAPS is rebuking the AMA by stating some facts about Ivermectin.  

American Association of Physicians & Surgeons is now outright advocating FOR the use of Ivermectin and claims that doctors in the US are legally prescribing 88,000 doses of the drug to covid patients every week.









						AAPS Letter to AMA Re: Ivermectin and COVID - AAPS | Association of American Physicians and Surgeons
					

Gerald E. Harmon, M.D. President, American Medical Association AMA Plaza 330 N. Wabash Ave., Suite 39300 Chicago, IL 60611-5885 Dear Dr. Harmon: The AMA has taken the startling and unprecedented position that American physicians should […]




					aapsonline.org
				




AAPS Letter to AMA Re: Ivermectin and COVID​

​Gerald E. Harmon, M.D.​​President, American Medical Association​​AMA Plaza​​330 N. Wabash Ave., Suite 39300​​Chicago, IL 60611-5885​​Dear Dr. Harmon:​​The AMA has taken the startling and unprecedented position that American physicians should immediately stop prescribing, and pharmacists should stop honoring their prescriptions for ivermectin for COVID-19 patients. The AMA is thus contradicting the professional judgment of a very large number of physicians, who are writing about 88,000 prescriptions per week. It also contradicts the Chairman of the Tokyo Medical Association, Haruo Ozaki, who recommended that all doctors in Japan immediately begin using Ivermectin to treat COVID.​​AMA claims that ivermectin is dangerous and ineffective despite the safe prescription of billions of doses since 1981, and the mostly favorable results of 63 controlled studies in COVID-19.​​AMA does not specify _any _recommended early treatments, but simply urges face masks, distancing, and vaccination.​​Our members would appreciate clarification of the AMA’s stand on the following questions:​​
What are the criteria for advocating that pharmacists override the judgment of fully qualified physicians who are responsible for individual patients?
What are the criteria for forbidding off-label use of long-approved drugs, which constitute at least 20 percent of all prescriptions?
On what basis does AMA demand use only within a clinical trial for ivermectin, but call for virtually universal vaccination outside of controlled trials, despite FDA warnings of potential cardiac damage in healthy young patients, and no information about long-term effects?
We believe that these questions get to the heart of issues of physician and patient autonomy, as well as scientific principles such as the need for a control group in experiments.​​We look forward to your response.​​Sincerely yours,​​Jane M. Orient, M.D., Executive Director​


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> Now doctors are pushing back against the AMA which does not want Ivermectin prescribed and the AAPS is rebuking the AMA by stating some facts about Ivermectin.
> 
> American Association of Physicians & Surgeons is now outright advocating FOR the use of Ivermectin and claims that doctors in the US are legally prescribing 88,000 doses of the drug to covid patients every week.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AAPS Letter to AMA Re: Ivermectin and COVID - AAPS | Association of American Physicians and Surgeons
> 
> 
> Gerald E. Harmon, M.D. President, American Medical Association AMA Plaza 330 N. Wabash Ave., Suite 39300 Chicago, IL 60611-5885 Dear Dr. Harmon: The AMA has taken the startling and unprecedented position that American physicians should […]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aapsonline.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AAPS Letter to AMA Re: Ivermectin and COVID​
> 
> ​Gerald E. Harmon, M.D.​​President, American Medical Association​​AMA Plaza​​330 N. Wabash Ave., Suite 39300​​Chicago, IL 60611-5885​​Dear Dr. Harmon:​​The AMA has taken the startling and unprecedented position that American physicians should immediately stop prescribing, and pharmacists should stop honoring their prescriptions for ivermectin for COVID-19 patients. The AMA is thus contradicting the professional judgment of a very large number of physicians, who are writing about 88,000 prescriptions per week. It also contradicts the Chairman of the Tokyo Medical Association, Haruo Ozaki, who recommended that all doctors in Japan immediately begin using Ivermectin to treat COVID.​​AMA claims that ivermectin is dangerous and ineffective despite the safe prescription of billions of doses since 1981, and the mostly favorable results of 63 controlled studies in COVID-19.​​AMA does not specify _any _recommended early treatments, but simply urges face masks, distancing, and vaccination.​​Our members would appreciate clarification of the AMA’s stand on the following questions:​​
> What are the criteria for advocating that pharmacists override the judgment of fully qualified physicians who are responsible for individual patients?
> What are the criteria for forbidding off-label use of long-approved drugs, which constitute at least 20 percent of all prescriptions?
> On what basis does AMA demand use only within a clinical trial for ivermectin, but call for virtually universal vaccination outside of controlled trials, despite FDA warnings of potential cardiac damage in healthy young patients, and no information about long-term effects?
> We believe that these questions get to the heart of issues of physician and patient autonomy, as well as scientific principles such as the need for a control group in experiments.​​We look forward to your response.​​Sincerely yours,​​Jane M. Orient, M.D., Executive Director​


I guess its only " MY BODY MY CHOICE " if I want an abortion.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Find your monoclonal antibodies here:  https://protect-public.hhs.gov/pages/therapeutics-distribution

From:








						The Highly Effective Covid Treatment Joe Biden Won’t Tell You About  | The Daily Wire
					






					www.dailywire.com


----------



## Melensdad

Compared to LAST YEAR at this time.

Covid cases are UP 316%%
Covid deaths are UP about 200%
Covid hospitalizations are UP 157% 

So what do the scary numbers mean to you?  Basically it means that the DELTA variant, which is roughly 98% of all Covid cases, is very very transmissible, but the death rate is DOWN and the hospitalization rate is DOWN from last year.  So it appears that DELTA spreads very easily but, as a percentage, kills fewer people and makes fewer people extremely sick.  

Is it serious?  YES, especially for those who are "at risk" with overweight being the #1 factor for complications.  But for the otherwise healthy, the risks seem to be fairly low, at least statistically.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Melensdad said:


> So what do the scary numbers mean to you?


It means all the B.S. we went through last year was mostly political.


----------



## Melensdad

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq said:


> It means all the B.S. we went through last year was mostly political.


I would not be in total agreement.  But I'm not going to disagree to loudly either.

Clearly many people are at risk and needed to take this very seriously.  Literally anyone over the age of 65 is at risk, both from the original and from Delta.  Anyone with co-morbidities like being over-weight, high blood pressure, cancer, pulmonary issues, auto-immune issues, etc are at risk, regardless of age.  

This is a serious disease for those who have complications.  It is not too big a deal for most people who get it.

I said fairly early on that the world should not be shut down to protect those of us (me) who are at risk.  People who are at risk need to take responsibility for themselves.  But the fact is that many people are idiots and we do have some areas, typically fairly small geographically, that have run short of hospital beds, that have run short of O2, etc.  So it has to be taken seriously but silly crap like wearing cotton masks or paper masks is really just theatre for the masses.


----------



## Melensdad

Interesting turn, as the FDA allows clinical use of Ivermectin for Covid, a Texas based hospital group just banned it.










						Texas hospital system bans ivermectin for COVID patients as their families demand 'wonder drug'
					

Mainstream medical community hailed the drug for its widespread off-label uses — including against RNA viruses — until COVID pandemic.




					justthenews.com
				





Texas hospital system bans ivermectin for COVID patients as their families demand 'wonder drug'​_Mainstream medical community hailed the drug for its widespread off-label uses — including against RNA viruses — until COVID pandemic._​A Texas hospital system imposed "new restriction criteria" on the use of ivermectin, excluding the anti-parasitic agent from treatment of COVID-19.

St. Luke's Health will only allow its infectious disease physicians to use the drug for preventive treatment of strongyloidiasis, a roundworm infection, according to a Sept. 2 directive shared with Just the News.

Its wording suggests that non-infectious disease physicians had been considering or actually prescribing ivermectin for COVID patients. 

The relatively cheap treatment has been promoted by an eclectic group of influencers. Evolutionary biologist and former Evergreen State College professor Bret Weinstein has regularly touted ivermectin on his DarkHorse podcast, which led YouTube to demonetize his channel.

America's most popular podcaster, Joe Rogan, joined the chorus last week after taking a drug cocktail that included ivermectin in response to his COVID diagnosis. Rogan endorsed Sen. Bernie Sanders for the Democratic presidential nomination in 2020, as did Weinstein in 2016.

The drug was widely hailed in the medical community for its proven track record against a host of infections in humans — until the COVID pandemic.

*Not judging 'effectiveness'*

The St. Luke's memo is addressed to "TX Division Medical Staff" from the division's chief medical officer, medical directors of pharmacy and therapeutics and infection prevention, and vice president for pharmacy.

While the FDA-approved drug is used off-label "for the treatment of many parasitic infections" and has "in vitro activity against some viruses, including SARS-CoV-2 [which causes COVID], it has no therapeutic utility," the memo says. It cited Infectious Diseases Society of America and FDA statements against ivermectin in COVID treatment.

A St. Luke's spokesperson declined to tell Just the News whether the directive amounts to a flat ban on physicians treating COVID patients with ivermectin, and whether any of its doctors were considering or actively prescribing it before the directive came down.

"Our commitment to provide the best care for our patients is rooted in data-driven, clinically-proven treatment protocols," according to a hospital statement. "Clinical trials are currently underway to determine if this medication could be authorized and approved for COVID-19 patients, but until that time, we are not using this medication as part of our COVID-19 treatment protocols."

The statement also warns against self-medication with the animal version of ivermectin, which is stronger than the human version, declaring: "The safest defense against severe illness, hospitalization and death from COVID-19 is to vaccinate."

The drug is the source of growing legal battles between hospitals and families of COVID patients with severe illnesses, who demand its off-label use to treat the disease.

This week an Ohio judge protected a hospital from having to continue administering ivermectin to a ventilator patient based on his wife's demand and an outside doctor's prescription. That followed another judge's 14-day temporary restraining order (TRO) ordering the administration of ivermectin.

Butler County Court of Common Pleas Judge Michael Oster ruled Monday that he wasn't "making a decision on the effectiveness of ivermectin" but rather determining that Jeffrey Smith's wife Julie hadn't met the standard for a preliminary injunction against West Chester Hospital.

He noted that the CDC, FDA and leading medical associations released statements against ivermectin following Judge Gregory Howard's Aug. 23 TRO, and said studies on ivermectin's effectiveness are not robust.

Outside doctor Fred Wagshul could only say Smith's condition "seems to be" improving after the hospital administered ivermectin under Judge Howard's order.

Oster also said nothing is stopping Julie Smith from transferring her husband to a hospital where Wagshul has admitting privileges and can continue administering the drug.

*'Wonder drug' with penicillin, aspirin*

The Ohio lawsuit was part of a nationwide effort by New York attorney Ralph Lorigo, working in conjunction with pro-ivermectin doctor group Front Line Covid-19 Critical Care Alliance, which includes Wagshul, according to Bloomberg Law.

Lorigo achieved his first legal victory in January in Buffalo, convincing a court to order a hospital to treat an 80-year-old on a ventilator with the drug. The patient subsequently recovered. Another happened in Illinois, where a state appeals court upheld an order requiring an Elmhurst hospital to administer ivermectin.

The lawyer told Bloomberg Law he now receives "nonstop" calls worldwide from patients trying to force hospitals to treat them with the drug as a last resort.

The mainstream medical community seemingly only became resistant to off-label use of ivermectin during the COVID pandemic.

Ten years ago a Japanese medical journal dubbed ivermectin, which was discovered in Japan in the late 1970s, a "wonder drug" alongside penicillin and aspirin. It cited the drug's "versatility, safety and the beneficial impact that it has had, and continues to have, worldwide — especially on hundreds of millions of the world’s poorest people," with new uses "continually being found."

A 2017 review in The Journal of Antibiotics, published by Nature, repeated the "wonder" label. 

"Today, ivermectin is continuing to surprise and excite scientists, offering more and more promise to help improve global public health by treating a diverse range of diseases, with its unexpected potential as an antibacterial, antiviral and anti-cancer agent being particularly extraordinary," the article said. 

The review specifically cited the drug's "antiviral activity against several RNA viruses" — a category that includes SARS-CoV-2, which causes COVID.

Just last month the chairman of the Tokyo Metropolitan Medical Association held a press conference to recommend ivermectin to treat COVID as Japan experienced a spike in cases. Haruo Ozaki cited drastically lower COVID cases and deaths in African countries that prescribed the drug preventively for parasites, compared to African countries that didn't.


----------



## m1west

So yesterday was my first day working gain, had 2 job walks. Everything went well but it was 100 degrees outside.
The wife has made steady improvement, O2 good and her energy is returning. She has a sore throat as a side effect of one of her medications, she cant talk much   and thats not all bad.


----------



## Melensdad

Interesting results about the 2 main vaccines used in the USA.  Pfizer is the dominant vaccine, over 1/2 of those vaccinated in the US got the Pfizer jab.  Roughly 40% got the Moderna.  A few % got the J&J 1 shot protocol.

Moderna seems to be the best for long term effectiveness.

Full Story at the link, this is just the beginning of the story --> https://news.yahoo.com/big-gap-between-pfizer-moderna-034719881.html

Big gap between Pfizer, Moderna vaccines seen for preventing COVID hospitalizations​Fri, September 17, 2021, 10:47 PM






A dose of Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine is readied at a mobile vaccine clinic in Los Angeles. (Irfan Khan / Los Angeles Times)


Amid persistent concerns that the protection offered by COVID-19 vaccines may be waning, a report released Friday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention finds that America's workhorse shot is significantly less effective at preventing severe cases of disease over the long term than many experts had realized.

Data collected from 18 states between March and August suggest the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine reduces the risk of being hospitalized with COVID-19 by 91% in the first four months after receiving the second dose. Beyond 120 days, however, that vaccine efficacy drops to 77%.

Meanwhile, Moderna's vaccine was 93% effective at reducing the short-term risk of COVID-19 hospitalization and remained 92% effective after 120 days.

Overall, 54% of fully vaccinated Americans have been immunized with the Pfizer shot.


----------



## Melensdad

Interesting video from Dr Campbell today about India.  Goes into some detail on how India seems to have beating back Covid.  State of GOA gave away home medical kits -->  Tylenol, *Ivermectin*, Doxycycline, Vitamin C, D, Multivitamin with Zinc.  Similar treatment packs were given out in other states.

To my mind this is positive news for *Ivermectin*, but apparently they did a great job of isolation too.  2x daily phone calls to check on isolating patients. The evidence is circumstantial and not proof but the real life example from India does seem to add more information that should be considered.

It should be noted that India has a very low rate of vaccination, to date under 15% of their population is fully vaccinated.  

Interesting the WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION is highlighting the successes in India and reporting on their website but they IGNORE to mention *Ivermectin*.

This is well worth watching...


----------



## Ceee

Melensdad said:


> Interesting the WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION is highlighting the successes in India and reporting on their website but they IGNORE to mention *Ivermectin*.


Why do you think that is?  I'd just like to hear your own personal opinion.  I know there's a lot of disagreement on the use of ivermectin.  Nobody that I've heard in the US comes out and says why not to use it.  

On the chat show that I watch every other Friday with two Dallas doctors, the OBGYN came out and clearly said...do not take it.  Of course, she didn't say why.


----------



## Melensdad

Ceee said:


> Why do you think that is?  I'd just like to hear your own personal opinion.  I know there's a lot of disagreement on the use of ivermectin.  Nobody that I've heard in the US comes out and says why not to use it.
> 
> On the chat show that I watch every other Friday with two Dallas doctors, the OBGYN came out and clearly said...do not take it.  Of course, she didn't say why.


The septic in me says that the big pharma  companies want to make $$$,$$$,$$$.

What I do know is that the drug trial system is a privately funded system where the drug companies have to put up big money to get a drug approved for use as a treatment.  In the case of a generic drug, which the companies make pennies on, there is no financial incentive to do a study.  So the manufacturer who developed the drug won't put up the millions, tens of millions, needed if they won't see any return on the sale of the drug.

When universities and medical schools do drug studies, those are privately funded.  This may be ONE CASE where the government actually needs to pony up the cash and pay for a couple different studies.

What I KNOW is that month ago they were piling up bodies and burning them in India.  They were running out of Oxygen in their hospital.  Now their incidence of Covid is lower and their rates of death are lower.  So it only takes a reasonable man to suggest that they did something different and we should look into what they did, which meds they gave, and study their protocols.

Just my $00.02


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> The septic in me says that the big pharma  companies want to make $$$,$$$,$$$.
> 
> What I do know is that the drug trial system is a privately funded system where the drug companies have to put up big money to get a drug approved for use as a treatment.  In the case of a generic drug, which the companies make pennies on, there is no financial incentive to do a study.  So the manufacturer who developed the drug won't put up the millions, tens of millions, needed if they won't see any return on the sale of the drug.
> 
> When universities and medical schools do drug studies, those are privately funded.  This may be ONE CASE where the government actually needs to pony up the cash and pay for a couple different studies.
> 
> What I KNOW is that month ago they were piling up bodies and burning them in India.  They were running out of Oxygen in their hospital.  Now their incidence of Covid is lower and their rates of death are lower.  So it only takes a reasonable man to suggest that they did something different and we should look into what they did, which meds they gave, and study their protocols.
> 
> Just my $00.02


Well said, I got into a heated argument on the phone with my Kaiser Dr. when I requested a prescription for Hydroxiechloraquin and his response was that is a experimental drug and I can't prescribe it. My response was, it has been been used as a propolactic for protection against malaria for 80 years, millions of people have used it. His response its experimental and I'm not doing it. My response, so is the f>&king vaccine and what would be the worse thing that could happen, it won't help? His response- I'm not doing it. My response - F*^k you then what good are you, and I hung up the phone. I am now planning to Find a private practitioner in my area that has a similar thought process, also research and choose the best hospital in a reasonable distance, in case I ever need to go to one. I had no idea that corporate doctors now refuse any input from the patient and your treatment or lack of is none of your business.


----------



## Ceee

Melensdad said:


> The septic in me says that the big pharma companies want to make $$$,$$$,$$$.


Money - go figure


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> ... I am now planning to Find a private practitioner in my area that has a similar thought process, also research and choose the best hospital in a reasonable distance, in case I ever need to go to one. I had no idea that corporate doctors now refuse any input from the patient and your treatment or lack of is none of your business.


You may want to consider the FLCCC group and contact them for help.









						Home - FLCCC | Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance
					

Critical care physicians dedicated to researching and developing protocols to prevent and treat COVID-19 at all stages of disease.




					covid19criticalcare.com


----------



## Melensdad

From Breitbart News. 

FULL STORY AT THE LINK...









						The Latest Coronavirus Death Tolls, According to the CDC
					

The CDC announced this week that the national coronavirus death toll topped 675,000, surpassing the death toll of the Spanish Flu epidemic.




					www.breitbart.com
				




The Latest Coronavirus Death Tolls, According to the CDC​Paul Bois23 Sep 2021


The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) announced this week that the national coronavirus death toll topped 675,000, surpassing the death toll of the Spanish Flu pandemic from over a century ago.

According to the latest statistics, the coronavirus has claimed 677,086 lives as of publication, with the current 7-day average of 1,448.

When broken down by demographics,* roughly 77.3 percent (519,464 deaths) have been people ages 65 and over,* while 19.3 percent (129,604 deaths) were those between ages 45 and 64. Ages 45 and below comprised just 3.4 percent (22,953 deaths).

Within that, the most frequently listed comorbidity was influenza & pneumonia at 47.3 percent (315,419 deaths), followed by hypertension at 19.3 percent (128,505 deaths) deaths and diabetes at 15.7 percent (104,975 deaths). Alzheimer’s and other dementias stood at 12.4 percent (82,464 deaths) while sepsis stood in last at 9.7 percent (64,662 deaths).

Regarding vaccinations, the current data on hand also shows that states with the lowest vaccination rates had a four-times higher death rate than states with higher vaccination rates. Last week, the top 10 states with the highest death rates were: Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, Idaho, Louisiana, Mississippi, North Dakota, Tennessee, West Virginia, and Wyoming. Collectively, the states recorded 73.9 deaths per 100,000 residents. 

From CNN:



> The average rate of Covid-19 deaths in the 10 least vaccinated states was more than* four times higher over the past week *than the rate in the 10 most vaccinated states, according to a CNN analysis.
> In the least vaccinated states, roughly *eight people out of every 100,000* residents died of Covid-19 over the past week, compared with only about *two out of every 100,000* people in the 10 most vaccinated states. . .


As with the death rates, data from the US Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) shows that less-vaccinated states have an average of 39 hospitalizations per 100,000 people in the 10 least vaccinated states, per CNN.

According to the CDC, 182.4 million people in the United States have been fully vaccinated against the coronavirus. . .


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

m1west said:


> Well said, I got into a heated argument on the phone with my Kaiser Dr. when I requested a prescription for Hydroxiechloraquin and his response was that is a experimental drug and I can't prescribe it. My response was, it has been been used as a propolactic for protection against malaria for 80 years, millions of people have used it. His response its experimental and I'm not doing it. My response, so is the f>&king vaccine and what would be the worse thing that could happen, it won't help? His response- I'm not doing it. My response - F*^k you then what good are you, and I hung up the phone. I am now planning to Find a private practitioner in my area that has a similar thought process, also research and choose the best hospital in a reasonable distance, in case I ever need to go to one. I had no idea that corporate doctors now refuse any input from the patient and your treatment or lack of is none of your business.


They will get in trouble if they prescribe it.

Look for local "Naturopathic" practitioners.  On the west coast, there are lots of Nurse Practitioners, Physicians Assistants, and even General Practitioners that claim to be into "Functional" and/or "Naturopathic" medicine.  More than likely they will write you a prescription for ivermectin or any of the drugs in the FLCC protocol.


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> You may want to consider the FLCCC group and contact them for help.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Home - FLCCC | Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance
> 
> 
> Critical care physicians dedicated to researching and developing protocols to prevent and treat COVID-19 at all stages of disease.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> covid19criticalcare.com


Checked them out, but seems its only for COVID. I am searching for a local doctor that will listen to patient input and prescribe whatever is, and be a patient advocate if hospitalized. You think the corporate news is bad, a woke doctor can kill you.


----------



## m1west

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq said:


> They will get in trouble if they prescribe it.
> 
> Look for local "Naturopathic" practitioners.  On the west coast, there are lots of Nurse Practitioners, Physicians Assistants, and even General Practitioners that claim to be into "Functional" and/or "Naturopathic" medicine.  More than likely they will write you a prescription for ivermectin or any of the drugs in the FLCC protocol.


I will check it out. Thanks


----------



## austonte

Seriously sick and tired of this virus.


----------



## Melensdad

There is now a pill for covid.





__





						"This Is A Game-Changer" - Merck Releasing "Phenomenal" Test Results For Experimental COVID Pill | ZeroHedge
					

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero




					www.zerohedge.com
				






"This Is A Game-Changer" - Merck Releasing "Phenomenal" Test Results For Experimental COVID Pill​Looks like Merck just beat Pfizer to the punch.​​Merck announced Friday that an experimental COVID pill it has developed reduced hospitalizations and deaths by 50% in people recently infected with COVID.​​*The company will soon ask health officials in the US and abroad to authorize use of the drug.*​​The news came as a welcome surprise to the public, although COVID cases are already waning in the US and in hard-hit economies in Asia, the drug could create* "a real therapeutic advance"* that could dramatically decrease the risk of death from COVID.​​

​​*If approved (and odds are it will be) the drug would be the first treatment for COVID. Some compared it to tamiflu, in that patients should take it within 5 days of COVID infection (like those infected with the flu are instructed to take tamiflu early). *​​Former FDA Director Dr. Scott Gottlieb told CNBC that the trial results are clearly "profoundly" positive, even though researchers decided to stop the trial early because the drug showed significant success, meaning it would be unethical to keep giving patients placebos. To test the drug, they needed to test more than 700 unvaccinated people in a global study. The people were all considered in the "high risk" category due to factors like age, and other characteristics from their "health profile".​​Per the results, 7% of volunteers in the group that received the drug were hospitalized, and none of them died, compared with a 14% rate of hospitalization and death (include eight who died) in the placebo group.​​According to Dr. Gottlieb, *"this is a phenomenal result. This is a profound game-changer that we have an oral pill that had this kind of effect on patients who are already symptomatic."*​​Dr. Gottlieb also pointed out that the team that developed the drug *"also invented the first successful antibody against ebola so this is a very good drug-development team."*​​*"And remember we have two other drugs in development one by Pfizer (where Dr. Gottlieb serves on the board) and the other by Roches," *he said.​​Patients won't be taking the drug for very long, typically around five days, which means "the safety profile is probably pretty good," Dr. Gottlieb said.​​​Per the NYT, *"the Merck pill’s efficacy was lower than that of monoclonal antibody treatments, which mimic antibodies that the immune system generates naturally when fighting the virus. *Those drugs have been in high demand recently, but they are expensive, are typically given intravenously, and have proved cumbersome and labor-intensive for hospitals and clinics to administer. Studies have shown that they reduce hospitalizations and deaths 70 to 85 percent in similar high-risk Covid patients."​​The Merck drug is significantly chemically different from the Pfizer drug that's in its final round of studies, which means there's the possibility of creating a cocktail of anti-viral treatments for COVID. Merck has said it can produce 10MM pills by the end of this year, and Dr. Gottlieb said he expects they'll ramp up production quickly by partnering with other companies.​​Merck partnered with a small firm called Ridgeback Biotherapeutics to develop the drug, which is called Molnupiravir. While the study results haven't yet been peer reviewed, at least one independent group of medical experts have given the research their blessing.​​*"This is a milestone in the fight against COVID,"* Dr. Gottlieb said.​​So, is the prospect of a return to "normality" really on the table? _I suppose we're about to find out._​


----------



## waybomb

Too long to copy and paste, but worth the read

_This is an anonymously posted document by someone who calls themselves Spartacus. Because it’s anonymous, I can’t contact them to ask for permission to publish. So I hesitated for a while, but it’s simply the best document I’ve seen on Covid, vaccines, etc. Whoever Spartacus is, they have a very elaborate knowledge in “the field”. If you want to know a lot more about the no. 1 issue in the world today, read it. And don’t worry if you don’t understand every single word, neither do I. But I learned a lot.

The actual letter starts out with:_

COVID-19 is not a viral pneumonia. It is a viral vascular endotheliitis and attacks the lining of blood vessels, particularly the small pulmonary alveolar capillaries, leading to endothelial cell activation and sloughing, coagulopathy, sepsis, pulmonary edema, and ARDS-like symptoms. This is a disease of the blood and blood vessels. The circulatory system. Any pneumonia that it causes is secondary to that.

In severe cases, this leads to sepsis, blood clots, and multiple organ failure, including hypoxic and inflammatory damage to various vital organs, such as the brain, heart, liver, pancreas, kidneys, and intestines.

Some of the most common laboratory findings in COVID-19 are elevated D-dimer, elevated prothrombin time, elevated C-reactive protein, neutrophilia, lymphopenia, hypocalcemia, and hyperferritinemia, essentially matching a profile of coagulopathy and immune system hyperactivation/immune cell exhaustion.


----------



## Melensdad

This is a long story, way too long to post here.  I strongly encourage you to go to the link at the Desert Review and read the whole story.  It links a lot of reports to support the use of Ivermectin, perhaps not as a 100% cure but certainly as a treatment for most everyone.  THIS IS WELL WORTH READING









						India's Ivermectin Blackout - Part V: The Secret Revealed
					

On May 7, 2021, during the peak of India's Delta Surge, The World Health Organization reported, "Uttar Pradesh (is) going the last mile to stop COVID-19."




					www.thedesertreview.com
				




India's Ivermectin Blackout - Part V: The Secret Revealed​




On May 7, 2021, during the peak of India's Delta Surge, The World Health Organization reported, "Uttar Pradesh (is) going the last mile to stop COVID-19."​
https://www.who.int/india/news/feat...-pradesh-going-the-last-mile-to-stop-covid-19

The WHO noted, "Government teams are moving across 97,941 villages in 75 districts over five days in this activity which began May 5 in India's most populous state with a population of 230 million." 

The activity involved an aggressive house-to-house test and treat program with medicine kits.

The WHO explained, "Each monitoring team has two members who visit homes in villages and remote hamlets to test everyone with symptoms of COVID-19 using Rapid Antigen Test kits. Those who test positive are quickly isolated and given a medicine kit with advice on disease management."

The medicines comprising the kit were not identified as part of the Western media blackout at the time. As a result, the contents were as secret as the sauce at McDonald's.

The WHO continued, "On the inaugural day, WHO field officers monitored over 2,000 government teams and visited at least 10,000 households."

This news story was published on the WHO Official Website in India. The website details the WHO’s work against COVID-19 in India, including a discussion about their “Online course for Rapid Response Teams.” 

https://www.who.int/india

Such teams are the very government teams discussed above assigned to conduct the house-to-house test and treat program in Uttar Pradesh. In discussing the role of the Rapid Response Team (RRT), the WHO site reports, 

“RRTs are a key component of a larger emergency response strategy that is essential for an efficient and effective response…WHO has produced and published this course for RRTs working at the national, sub-national, district, and sub-district levels to strengthen the pandemic response with support from the National Center for Disease Control, Ministry of Health & Family Welfare, Government of India, and the U.S. Centers for Disease  Control and Prevention.”

The Rapid Response Teams derive support from the United States CDC under the umbrella of the WHO. This fact further validates the Uttar Pradesh test and treat program and solidifies this as a joint effort by the WHO and CDC.

https://www.who.int/india/news/detail/16-09-2021-online-course-for-rapid-response-teams

Perhaps the most telling portion of the WHO article was the last sentence, “WHO will also support the Uttar Pradesh government on the compilation of the final reports.” 

https://www.who.int/india/news/feat...-pradesh-going-the-last-mile-to-stop-covid-19

None have yet been published.

Just five short weeks later, on June 14, 2021, new cases had dropped a staggering 97.1 percent, and the Uttar Pradesh program was hailed as a resounding success. According to ZeeNews of India, "The strategy of trace, test & treat yields results."

"The Yogi-led state has also been registering a steep decline in the number of Active COVID Cases as the figure has dropped from a high of 310,783 in April to 8,986 now, a remarkable reduction by 97.10 percent."

https://zeenews.india.com/uttar-pra...contains-second-wave-of-covid-19-2368977.html


----------



## mla2ofus

So the CDC with WHO supports this ivermectin program in India but as I understand won't support it's use in our country.


----------



## Melensdad

mla2ofus said:


> So the CDC with WHO supports this ivermectin program in India but as I understand won't support it's use in our country.


Not so much that they supported it but they could not stop it, and then they were involved in making it work.  Reluctant support.  It will be interesting to see the final report!!!  Assuming they ever issue a report.


----------



## Melensdad

This is a stunning blow, actually just another of several stunning blows, to the vaccine mandates.  We now have a Merek anti-viral that can be used to cure Covid 19, and dramatically reduces hospitalizations, we also have proof that natural immunity, which is attained after getting & recovering from Covid, is better than the immunity from the most popular Covid vaccine.  Now the vaccine makers are admitting this too.​​PFIZER SCIENTISTS:​‘YOUR ANTIBODIES BETTER THAN THE PFIZER VACCINATION.’​


----------



## Ceee

Great video!  I appreciate all the info you put on here.


Melensdad said:


> we also have proof that natural immunity, which is attained after getting & recovering from Covid, is better than the immunity from the most popular Covid vaccine.


It seems to me that the vaccine still has a place for those of us who have never had covid and have no natural immunity.  Wrong?


----------



## m1west

So now what happens??


----------



## 300 H and H

Pfizer Scientist Nick Karl Confronted By James O'Keefe Over Shocking 'Natural Immunity' Admission​




1:42 min.




Project Veritas
Project Veritas
1.26M subscribers


----------



## Melensdad

Ceee said:


> Great video!  I appreciate all the info you put on here.
> 
> It seems to me that the vaccine still has a place for those of us who have never had covid and have no natural immunity.  Wrong?


RIGHT!

Exactly correct. The only way to get natural immunity is to first get, and recover from Covid.  Many people choose not to get Covid in the first place.  Some people, like myself, are high risk do to medical conditions, others are high risk due to weight or due to have.  Anyone who is a high risk individual would certainly be better off getting vaccinated than getting covid.

My thought, based on data, is that pretty much anyone over 50 probably should get vaccinated IF they have not already gotten Covid.  The Delta/Indian variant seems to affect people at younger ages. So while the highest deaths are still over age 60, Delta is bringing the age down a bit.  Seems like 50+ is a good age bracket.

Anyone with hypertension/high blood pressure
Anyone with asthma or any other pulmonary issue
Anyone with diabetes
Anyone who is more than 25# over weight, and especially anyone who is clinically obese (_which includes a lot more people with "dad bods" than most people realize_)
Anyone with an auto-immune disorder and anyone who is immunosuppressed
I'm still of the belief that younger/healthy people should be allowed to make their own choices and mandates are wrong.  Statistically people under the age of 50 are generally very low risk for complications unless they have 2 or more of the above underlying conditions.  Several months ago I probably would have suggested the age was 55 years old. But the Delta/Indian variant is changing some of the data and it seems appropriate to adapt on the side of caution.

There is very very little evidence that suggests that people who recovered from Covid should be vaccinated.  There is actually quite a bit of serious evidence that suggests that recovered people have better immunity than any of the current vaccines.  So why give recovered people a vaccine?  I see no medical reason.  Plenty in the medical community advocate that there is no actual reason to give recovered people the covid vaccine.

What some people scream about with natural immunity is that it is better than the vaccine but they seem to forget than they need to get covid to build up those anti-bodies.  There is ZERO natural immunity in the population that has NOT BEEN INFECTED.


----------



## Ceee

Melensdad said:


> What some people scream about with natural immunity is that it is better than the vaccine but they seem to forget than they need to get covid to build up those anti-bodies. There is ZERO natural immunity in the population that has NOT BEEN INFECTED.


Yes!  
The money factor mentioned on the video makes me sick.  Why can't Pfizer do what's right.  They've already made a ton of money.



300 H and H said:


> Pfizer Scientist Nick Karl Confronted By James O'Keefe



I didn't think Karl realized that he was being videoed.  It even crossed my mind that it wasn't legal.  He even asked if the person who he was talking to had on a wire, and then he laughed, like no way.   So maybe your video is the media's way to make it legal.  If you haven't already, watch the video that melensdad posted.  It does a great of job of showing Karl outing Pfizer for knowing that the vaccine wasn't necessary for those with natural immunity but still continued to push for them to get vaccinated...all for money, more money, lots more money .


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Merck’s COVID-19 pill could carry serious safety concerns, scientists warn
					

Merck’s new COVID-19 pill, known as molnupiravir, headed for FDA review for emergency authorization, could potentially carry serious safety issues stemming from the method used to kill the virus, scientists warned, according to a report.




					www.foxnews.com


----------



## pirate_girl

Johns Hopkins Doc Says Vaccine Mandates 'Ruin Lives' - And Natural Immunity Is 27 Times Better Than Jab
					

Maybe it's time for the Biden administration to set aside all of the politics and actually look at the science.




					www.westernjournal.com
				




“The data on natural immunity are now overwhelming,” Makary told the Morning Wire. “It turns out the hypothesis that our public health leaders had that vaccinated immunity is better and stronger than natural immunity was wrong. They got it backwards. And now we’ve got data from Israel showing that natural immunity is 27 times more effective than vaccinated immunity. And that supports 15 other studies.”

Despised by the left for his criticism of the vaccine mandate, Makary finds it bizarre that natural immunity is not seen as legitimate in the eyes of the U.S. government.

“It’s ruining the lives of people who are getting fired,” he said. “Nurses, who are heroes, are now getting laid off. Soldiers are getting dishonorably discharged. They’ve got immunity. It’s just not the type that our public health officials have sanctioned.”


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

^^^ It's all part of the plan to purge independent thinkers from these ranks.  The democrats know they can't start rounding up people for the gulags until they have the military, police, schools, and healthcare under their full control.


----------



## Melensdad

Not going to link any of the articles because I don't believe we currently have any members from the Nordic nations, but there are now bans on the MODERNA shots for people UNDER the age of 30.  Iceland actually banned its use for young adults. 

It seems that, for some strange reason that only affects younger people, the Moderna vaccine has an elevated chance of causing heart complications.  Does not seem to have any elevated risk in the over 30 crowd.

The MODERNA vaccine seems to be the most effective vaccine, with the longest level of protection, against Covid and is generally safe in the adult population (at least those over 30 years old)


----------



## pirate_girl

Allen West, GOP candidate for governor, says he has pneumonia caused by COVID-19
					

West, the former chair of the state Republican party, tweeted that his oxygen levels are low and he will likely be hospitalized, but says his condition is “not serious.”




					www.texastribune.org


----------



## Melensdad




----------



## PGBC

Alberta Canada has announced that those who test positive for covid, can go to the hospital as a support person for anyone who is pregnant. 
Is that not basically admitting it is bullshit?!


----------



## PGBC

__





						Redirect Notice
					





					www.google.com


----------



## Ceee

PGBC said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Redirect Notice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com


"Maternity patients giving birth in Alberta hospitals can bring a person infected with COVID-19 with them for support, Alberta Health Services (AHS) said in a series of tweets Saturday afternoon."

"COVID-19 poses a significant risk to both pregnant people and their unborn children, *and more of them are getting seriously sick*."
........
That doesn't seem like a very smart thing to do to me.  I can't imagine a covid positive parent doing that and risking his wife's life and their unborn child's life.


PGBC said:


> Is that not basically admitting it is bullshit?!


I don't know about that.  If it were me, I'd wait until I knew for sure before I allowed a covid positive support person in the room.


----------



## mla2ofus

That's because the canadian govt. and the US govt. don't want the virus to go away. It gives them too many opportunities to control the populace!!


----------



## Melensdad

PGBC said:


> Alberta Canada has announced that those who test positive for covid, can go to the hospital as a support person for anyone who is pregnant.
> Is that not basically admitting it is bullshit?!


Actually no.

A woman of child bearing years (16 to 35 years old) is actually a very very low risk person for complications to Covid.  

So a 'support' person/partner, who tests positive, may transmit the disease to the pregnant woman but the odds of any sort of covid related issue is very low.

The reality is that the elderly, and now those at over 55, are at far greater risk than anyone under the age of 40.

It is all in the data. Realize that the vast majority of people who have died from this disease are either elderly, older, or have 2 or more comorbities.  This disease does kill.  And with the Delta/Indian variant it is affecting people who are younger than the original strain.  But still, the numbers show that people under 40 are not at serious risk.


----------



## pirate_girl




----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

It is certainly seeming that these experimental vaccines are exactly that: "experimental".  I certainly have little confidence in their long term efficacy.


----------



## FrancSevin

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq said:


> It is certainly seeming that these experimental vaccines are exactly that: "experimental".  I certainly have little confidence in their long term efficacy.


I got the vaccine shot for  polio, 
I got the vaccine shot for Diphtheria
I got the vaccine shot for Pneumonia
I got the vaccine shot for  Tenuous

I have yet to contract any of these ailments. Because the shots were all "VACCINES!!!"

The COVID-19 shots are NOT vaccines.  Which is why people who get the shots, still transmit the disease and still die from it.

We are the test subjects of a medical experiment which has been given emergency approval.  It is still not fully approved by the FDA.  Therefore, by law, no government agency can make you take it.  Of course that is something we must prove in the courts.  Meanwhile, your rights to freely travel, work and live as you chose are being taken away.

Amazingly, your employer, currently, has more legal right to demand the shot than the government.  

It will likely take years for the courts, including the SCOTUS, to render judgement on our government's right to take yours away. Based on the performance to court rulings of the current administration, we may lose our freedom before the courts can act with authority. The next national elections are over a year away.  Be worried friends.  Be worried and careful

Keep you children close and your powder dry.


----------



## pirate_girl

FrancSevin said:


> I got the vaccine shot for  polio,
> I got the vaccine shot for Diphtheria
> I got the vaccine shot for Pneumonia
> I got the vaccine shot for  Tenuous
> 
> I have yet to contract any of these ailments. Because the shots were all "VACCINES!!!"
> 
> *The COVID-19 shots are NOT vaccines.  Which is why people who get the shots, still transmit the disease and still die from it.*
> 
> We are the test subjects of a medical experiment which has been given emergency approval.  It is still not fully approved by the FDA.  Therefore, by law, no government agency can make you take it.  Of course that is something we must prove in the courts.  Meanwhile, your rights to freely travel, work and live as you chose are being taken away.
> 
> Amazingly, your employer, currently, has more legal right to demand the shot than the government.
> 
> It will likely take years for the courts, including the SCOTUS, to render judgement on our government's right to take yours away. Based on the performance to court rulings of the current administration, we may lose our freedom before the courts can act with authority. The next national elections are over a year away.  Be worried friends.  Be worried and careful
> 
> Keep you children close and your powder dry.


The "vaccine" is NOT working for many.
Once again we have staff members and residents testing positive.

All fully vaccinated.


----------



## mla2ofus

Makes me wonder if it's just a placebo.


----------



## pirate_girl

mla2ofus said:


> Makes me wonder if it's just an experiment.


Fixed it for ya!


----------



## PGBC

mla2ofus said:


> Makes me wonder if it's just a placebo.



Worse, much worse.

Gates, and others, have for years wanted to do a massive population control, aka wipe out many of us. The jab is doing a great job at killing humans off with heart attack, and strokes, but that is just the beginning. In a few years many who took the jab will mysteriously drop, but also it will leave masses unable to reproduce. They are not taking it, nor their friends, so they will be the ones left to breed. Clintons, obamas, pelosi, gates, soros, and their king of dementia aka pawn biden, all make Hitler seem like a good guy in comparison to them.


----------



## EastTexFrank

PGBC said:


> Gates, and others, have for years wanted to do a massive population control, aka wipe out many of us. The jab is doing a great job at killing humans off with heart attack, and strokes, but that is just the beginning. In a few years many who took the jab will mysteriously drop, but also it will leave masses unable to reproduce. They are not taking it, nor their friends, so they will be the ones left to breed. Clintons, obamas, pelosi, gates, soros, and their king of dementia aka pawn biden, all make Hitler seem like a good guy in comparison to them.



On a lighter note, I got my Pfizer booster shot this morning.  Right now, 12 hours later, my arm hurts like hell but there is no sign of my nuts dropping off yet.  Maybe tomorrow.


----------



## Ceee

PGBC said:


> Worse, much worse.
> 
> Gates, and others, have for years wanted to do a massive population control, aka wipe out many of us. The jab is doing a great job at killing humans off with heart attack, and strokes, but that is just the beginning. In a few years many who took the jab will mysteriously drop, but also it will leave masses unable to reproduce. They are not taking it, nor their friends, so they will be the ones left to breed. Clintons, obamas, pelosi, gates, soros, and their king of dementia aka pawn biden, all make Hitler seem like a good guy in comparison to them.


I don't agree with this at all.


----------



## FrancSevin

EastTexFrank said:


> On a lighter note, I got my Pfizer booster shot this morning.  Right now, 12 hours later, my arm hurts like hell but there is no sign of my nuts dropping off yet.  Maybe tomorrow.


It's not your nuts for which you have to worry.  It's your Daughter's ovaries.

Those of us past the age of making babes, not to worry.  But young girls.....?  They will suffer.

Since the mid 19th century, we have had the elites worried about overpopulation. Predictions that 5 billion people was more than the world could sustain, caused concerns in the more educated parts of the world. With political pressure mounting, by the mid 20th century we have population control via the concept of the pill and abortion on demand.  Obedient Americans have reduced population growth, or at least the birth rate in our country, to a net negative number. This particularly in the affluent, and white populations.

Ironically, the predictions that the world could not sustain mere than 6 billion  people has be proven wrong.


In demographics, the world population is the total number of humans currently living, and was estimated to have reached *7.7 billion* people as of April 2019. It took over 200,000 years of human history for the world's population to reach 1 billion, and only 200 years more to reach *7 billion*. *Dec 28 2019*


----------



## m1west

Ceee said:


> I don't agree with this at all.


I just watched a video sent to project Veratos, depicting Suckerburg addressing the brass at his company. Quote: I am not taking a vaccine that alters you DNA and RNA, who knows what any long term effects would be. I do not trust any of them, Suckerburg, gates, fauxi or the current administration.


----------



## FrancSevin

Imagine, if you will, a world in which a disease is intentionally manipulated to become a deadly pandemic, and your choice is take a medicine that will cure you and also make you sterile.   Or,,,,,,; you will die.

Consider, if you will;
.....the possibility that we now involved within the experiment to see if that scenario is palatable, if not  acceptable, to the population?


----------



## pirate_girl

I kind of said from the beginning that COVID-19 is just like "the flu", only much worse.. and it is.
Well it can be, in the elderly and those with pre-existing health conditions.
That said, we now (once again!) have a covid ward at work.
Just like last year.
So far, 7 residents tested positive.
They've all been vaccinated.
Symptoms are mild.
Let's hope this doesn't go out of control like last year.
I don't think we/I could go through that again.
When your facility has the ABC Toledo news team knocking on your front door, you know it's bad.


----------



## Ceee

FrancSevin said:


> It's your Daughter's ovaries.
> 
> Those of us past the age of making babes, not to worry. But young girls.....? They will suffer.


I like you Franc, but I'm going to respectfully disagree with the above.  I haven't seen any evidence that young women will suffer from fertility problems from getting the vaccine.
I could quote the CDC stuff, but you would probably poo-poo that , and I get that's your right.


----------



## pirate_girl

It's too early still to speculate what this jab/shot could do long-term.
I got vaccinated per ODH recommendation , but I won't call it a vaccine.
Now next week when I receive my annual flu shot, then I'll consider myself vaccinated.


----------



## FrancSevin

Ceee said:


> I like you Franc, but I'm going to respectfully disagree with the above.  I haven't seen any evidence that young women will suffer from fertility problems from getting the vaccine.
> I could quote the CDC stuff, but you would probably poo-poo that , and I get that's your right.


You can disagree but obviously, you haven't looked.

We are all having to sift the disinformation from the facts.
The Gubmint wants you to "just believe"
It's like finding out your mate has been cheating for years, but from now on you can trust them.
There simply has not been enough time or research for anyone to do more than speculate.

That's all I'm doing.

I'll believe the CDC when they offer the same information and protocols two days in a row.
The problem lies not in the information so much as the inability to make a free personal decision

 The mandates have no force of law.  So why is everyone so scared to be free?


----------



## PGBC

mandate​[ man-deyt  ]





See synonyms for: mandate / mandated / mandates / mandating on Thesaurus.com

noun
a command or authorization to act in a particular way on a public issue given by the electorate to its representative: The president had a clear mandate to end the war.


----------



## Melensdad

COLIN POWEL 

He had cancer and other serious health conditions and was seriously immunosuppressed.  The fact that he had a breakthrough case is not surprising.  From the onset we knew cancer patients would be minimally helped.



VACCINES are 70-90% effective and temper the severity of the disease:

The fact is the vaccine is actually effective at reducing serious complications and hospitalization in a huge super majority of people.  There is also evidence that the efficacy wanes after 5-7 months, especially in those people who older, have co-morbidities and anyone who is immunocompromised, exactly the type of population that lives in care facilities.  Those people who do get breakthrough cases tend to have very mild cases.  Statistics back up all this, the data is hard to refute. Would it be great to have a BETTER vaccine?  Yup, but these are the jabs we have.  Take if or leave it. 



TREATMENTS are nearing:

We also now know that there are some treatments on the very near horizon.  Israel has a drug that is nearly 100% effective in double blind/placebo hospital trials.  Eli Lilly is testing a treatment that seems to be very effective and cost effective in early trial.  Merek, the original producer of Ivermectin, has a drug that is modestly priced and showing to be very effective, available in pill form.  And we should not forget Ivermectin, which India proved, and the World Heath Organization admitted without saying the name Ivermectin, that India's early treatment and prevention plan, based on Ivermectin, was the most successful in the world and changing the course of the disease.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Just going to drop this here ...



> A U.S. partner of the Wuhan Institute of Virology manipulated a coronavirus to generate up to 10,000 times the viral load, violating provisions of its National Institutes of Health contract that forbade unregulated research that could make a disease significantly more dangerous or transmissible.












						NIH grantee in Wuhan faces questions, deadline for more info on research
					

NIH said EcoHealth Alliance must submit any unpublished data to the agency by Monday to come back into compliance with its NIH grant.




					www.rollcall.com


----------



## Melensdad

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq said:


> Just going to drop this here ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NIH grantee in Wuhan faces questions, deadline for more info on research
> 
> 
> NIH said EcoHealth Alliance must submit any unpublished data to the agency by Monday to come back into compliance with its NIH grant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rollcall.com


There are lots of things that need to be explored.  The government very likely caused this problem.  That is an issue for perhaps a dozen political threads as the investigations evolve.

But the real issue to deal with is that we are stuck with this virus.

So now that we have it we have to deal with the virus.

We have SOME possible treatments, most of which, if they work, only work in early stages of the disease.  We have some vaccines, which seem to have some very good effect, albeit only for a fairly short duration of time.  We have some new treatments coming down the line that look even more promising.

This is the reality of what we face with Covid.


----------



## Melensdad

New peer reviewed study, reported on by USA Today, shows that there a lot of people who have lingering long term problems after recovering from Covid.  Perhaps they are not actually recovered?  Story seems to indicate, at least some of these lingering symptoms are worse with older people and milder in younger people.  I'd like to see more details.  But for now this is interesting.  I've reported on some of these symptoms earlier in this thread.

LINK to original story in USA Today.  Visit the site for updates to this story --> https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...ory-loss-long-term-covid-symptoms/6168210001/


Memory loss and 'brain fog' may be side effects of COVID-19, new study shows​Long-term COVID-19 side effects could include memory loss and other cognitive dysfunctions commonly labeled as "brain fog," according to a study released that examined 740 patients in the Mount Sinai Health System.​​The study, which was published Friday in the peer-reviewed medical journal JAMA Network Open, analyzed patients who contracted COVID-19, not people who only received the COVID-19 vaccine.​​*The most common cognitive deficits the study identified were memory encoding and memory recall, which showed up in 24%  and 23% of the participants, respectively.*​​Memory encoding is the process of storing sensory input as a memory, such as storing a phone number in your head by repeating it out loud a few times. Memory recall refers to accessing memories that are stored already and retrieving them for use.​​The study used the Hopkins Verbal Learning Test to show participants a series of words in different categories and see how many they could recall. Another test, called the Number Span test, would see how many digits someone could recall from memory after seeing the numbers on a screen.​​Other common side effects included processing speed (the time it takes someone to perform a mental task), executive functioning (associated with setting and completing goals), and phonemic and category fluency (the ability to come up with words based on certain criteria).​​An example of phonemic fluency is asking participants to come up with as many words that start with a "C" as possible, and category fluency involves asking them to list words related to a category, such as animals, according to Oxford's Archives of Clinical Neuropsychology.​​*Hospitalized patients were much more likely than non-hospitalized patients to struggle with attention, executive functioning, category fluency, memory encoding and memory recall.*​​Another study that documented "brain fog" was published by Oxford University and the National Institute for Health Research study earlier in October. *Cognitive symptoms were seen in about 8% of patients and were more common among the elderly.*​​The study also found common lingering symptoms, *such as trouble breathing, abdominal ailments, fatigue, pain, anxiety and depression.*​


----------



## pirate_girl

We have 14 residents now tested positive for covid.
Looks like it's going to take off like a house on fire again.
It pisses me off that the vaccine hasn't worked for many of them.
It would also HELP if we wouldn't have been accepting new admissions once management thought it was ok to do so.
Covid is horrible and a real bad virus.
The vaccine is an experiment because it's NOT workinggggg!


----------



## Melensdad

pirate_girl said:


> We have 14 residents now tested positive for covid.
> Looks like it's going to take off like a house on fire again.
> It pisses me off that *the vaccine hasn't worked for many of them.*
> It would also HELP if we wouldn't have been accepting new admissions once management thought it was ok to do so.
> Covid is horrible and a real bad virus.
> The vaccine is an experiment because it's NOT workinggggg!


I agree it is an experiment but I disagree that it is not working.

The data shows it is working reasonably well.  Vaccinated people still get Covid but tend to get it at lower rates and have far fewer complications, far fewer hospitalizations and fewer deaths.

The problem is that the immunity doesn't seem to last very long.  Less so for older people and those of us (like me) that are immunosuppressed or immunocompromised.  

But clearly we can see that people who are vaccinated have far better chances than those who are not.


----------



## pirate_girl

Melensdad said:


> I agree it is an experiment but I disagree that it is not working.
> 
> The data shows it is working reasonably well.  Vaccinated people still get Covid but tend to get it at lower rates and have far fewer complications, far fewer hospitalizations and fewer deaths.
> 
> The problem is that the immunity doesn't seem to last very long.  Less so for older people and those of us (like me) that are immunosuppressed or immunocompromised.
> 
> But clearly we can see that people who are vaccinated have far better chances than those who are not.


You're basically repeating much of what I've already said, but yeah I get it


----------



## Melensdad

Booster or not?  









						What booster should I get? Data from ACIP may help
					

There’s been a ton of meetings re: COVID19 boosters. VRBPAC met last week (here are my cliff notes). FDA made their decision yesterday. ACIP (the external advisory committee to the CDC) met today. The evidence from all these meetings are pretty clear: boosters are safe, effective, and needed for...




					yourlocalepidemiologist.substack.com
				




What booster should I get? Data from ACIP may help​Katelyn JetelinaOct 21
There’s been a ton of meetings re: COVID19 boosters. VRBPAC met last week (here are my cliff notes). FDA made their decision yesterday. ACIP (the external advisory committee to the CDC) met today. The evidence from all these meetings are pretty clear: boosters are safe, effective, and needed for some. This weekend it will be “legal” to mix vaccines too. But everyone has one question…

_*Which booster should I get?*_

When deciding to mix or match a booster, you should weigh benefits with risks. This benefit/risk ratio depends on age, sex, vaccine type, and risk for COVID19 disease. Thanks to the ACIP meeting today, we got some new data that can help drive your decision…

*Benefits to Mixing *

At the ACIP meeting, scientists of the landmark mix and match study presented their data. I wrote about this study last week. Briefly: 


The most benefit was for those with a primary J&J shot. A Moderna booster gave the greatest benefit (56.1 fold increase in IgG; 76.1 fold increase in neutralizing antibodies). Pfizer also worked very well (32.8 fold increase in IgG; 35 fold increase in neutralizing antibodies). 
After the primary Moderna series, there was equal benefit from either a Moderna or Pfizer booster.
After the primary Pfizer series, the greatest benefit was from a Moderna booster. But a Pfizer booster helped a lot too.


Figure created by YLE
There is a level of uncertainty about what combination is the best, though:


We don’t know _why_ mixing leads to increases of antibodies for some groups but not all. For example, is J&J highly boosted by Moderna because..
…Moderna has such a high original efficacy? 
…they are different biotechnologies? Theoretically mixing an adenovirus vaccine (J&J) with a mRNA vaccine (Moderna) could give your immune system more ways to identify the virus, and thus more effective. 
… of the order? The “primer” or the original vaccine is important. Maybe this partially explains why JJ then Moderna is better than Moderna then JJ.
Scientists from the mix and match study are studying this, but answers will take time. 


The mix and match study is one study. In epidemiology, consistency across studies is key. Unfortunately, we don’t have time to wait for more studies. 
We don’t know what a “protective” level of antibodies is. So, these fold-increases may not correlate with real world effectiveness.
This study included Moderna at a 100 μg dose. This is different than what’s being rolled out (50 μg). This could influence results. 
Data was only presented 29 days after original dose. J&J seems to have a delayed reaction, so this data may miss the ultimate protection that J&J can provide.
So, there is uncertainty. But overall there’s benefit to a booster and to mixing. 

CONTINUED...


----------



## Melensdad

CONTINUED FROM ABOVE...



*Risks to Mixing*

It’s very safe to mix, but there are rare (but real) safety signals for specific vaccines based on age and sex: 

_*Myocarditis and mRNA vaccines*_


There’ve been 2,459 cases of myocarditis reported to VAERS. This is out of 366,062,239 first and second doses of mRNA vaccine administered in the United States. 
We see a higher than expected rate of myocarditis among males less than 30 years old after the second dose of an mRNA vaccine. For example, 40 cases of myocarditis have been reported out of 1,000,000 Pfizer doses among 12-15 year old males.
Myocarditis is slightly higher after Moderna compared to Pfizer (this is probably because Moderna has more RNA in it compared to Pfizer). 
No deaths have been linked to vaccine-induced myocarditis. And people fully recover within 6 months. 


Reporting rates (per 1 million doses administered) of myocarditis among males after mRNA COVID-19 vaccines. Source here


Reporting rates (per 1 million doses administered) of myocarditis among females after mRNA COVID-19 vaccines. Source here
Myocarditis data is based on the first and second shot, though. What is the risk for the third shot? We don’t really know, but this is what we’ve seen thus far…


Israel has boosted 3.7 million people using Pfizer. In terms of myocarditis, a booster is _less_ risky with the 3rd dose because of the longer period between doses. Israel reported only 17 cases of myocarditis/pericarditis after the booster. All these cases were among males.




In United States, 11,607,334 (6.1%) of people have already gotten a booster. Through the active surveillance system (V-safe), we have data on over 275,000 of those people. Most of these people did not mix, but a few people already have. For Pfizer, local and systemic reactions were reported less frequently following dose 3 than dose than the 1st or 2nd dose.


Patterns of vaccination for 274,167 v-safe participants who reported an additional dose. Source here

Moderna may be higher risk for myocarditis than Pfizer. But the Moderna booster is half the strength than the primary series. So, in terms of a booster, Moderna may not be more risky. 
_*Blood clots and J&J vaccine*_


There’ve been 47 cases of thrombosis with thrombocytopenia syndrome (TTS—special type of blood clot) reported to VAERS after the J&J vaccine. This is out of 15.3 million doses of J&J administered in the United States. 
We see a higher than expected rate of TTS among females aged 30-49 years old. For example, 11 cases of TTS have been reported out of 1,079,231 doses among 30-39 years old females after J&J.



*So, what booster should you get?*

The risk/benefit ratio depends on your age, sex, vaccine type, and risk for COVID19 disease. Here are some scenarios…


_*Young male*_ had a primary J&J vaccine. The most protection he would get is from a Moderna booster. But there’s low risk for myocarditis with Moderna. He believes myocarditis risk outweighs high efficacy, so he goes for a J&J booster. 
But maybe this guy has a comorbidity and is at high risk for COVID19 disease. In this case he wants ultimate protection. So, high efficacy outweighs myocarditis and he goes with a Moderna booster. 

_*Middle-aged woman *_had a primary J&J vaccine. If she were to get a J&J booster, there is a small risk of getting blood clots. For her, a mRNA booster may make the most sense because she’s not at high risk for myocarditis. So, she goes with a mRNA booster. 
But maybe she originally got J&J because she’s more comfortable with adenovirus biotechnology than mRNA biotechnology. So, for her, the minimal risk of a blot clot outweighs her concerns of mRNA. 


_*Elderly person in rural America*_ had a primary Moderna series, but the local pharmacy only has J&J in stock now. To them, the availability and need of a booster outweighs the small risk of blood clots. So, they will get a J&J booster.


----------



## Ceee

I'm on info overload right now.  My first two vaccines were pfizer.  Right now, I'm thinking that I'm going to stick with Pfizer as a booster if possible.  I may change my mind after I come back and read the info again.  I've been known to do that frequently.  

Thanks so much for all the info, Melensdad.


----------



## Melensdad

Four graphs are worth thousands of words - NYT summary of recent CDC data based on health department records from 14 states and two cities. Vaccinations work - period.  That said, I don't believe there should be mandates.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

I read what I perceived as a decently unbiased article that stated it may be best to mix up your booster shot brands.  Exposing your body to vaccine variants may train it to be more resilient to the actual covid variants.  I think this is a reasonable strategy.

I plan to get a different brand shot next month when I go to get my second shingles shot.  Assuming they let me - I'm not that old or particularly high risk.


----------



## FrancSevin

I don't care if it works or not. The experimental drug is NOT A VACCINE.

It is at best a prophylactic  therapy. There is a benefit to having the shot.  No argument.
However,
It's not much better than the paper masks which claim right on the box,  "WILL NOT PREVENT COVID-19."  They also have some benefit.

For the record, I am not anti shot for COVID.   Just listen to you lying ears and eyes when the "experts" tell you what you must do instead.

If you are an American, YOU have the inalienable right to decide.


----------



## FrancSevin

An after effect not mentioned but common is a_ persistant Urticaria.  _I have it on both legs.

At first I thought it was shingles.  But since I have it equally on both sides of my body, it has to be something else.

Benadryl helps but makes me sleepy
Sarna lotion also helps.

The rash is not continuous but breaks out when I am stressed or over tired. Never had it until I suffered COVID-19 back in  February 2020

I will admit suffering with some of the items mentioned here in the OP.  Cognitive fogginess.  Yep, in spades.

Looking right at something common and unable to recognize it.
Common words I cannot recover for use.  For example, "Urticaria" I was medically trained years ago, and used it on this Forum a few weeks ago.  But had to look it up.

Planning?  Visualizing concepts...; one of my best talents and required as an engineer.  We are not talking about forgetting were are your keys, but why the board I just cut is wrong because I don't know where it goes in the construction I designed.

   Absolutely an issue.

I worry it is long term.


----------



## pirate_girl

FrancSevin said:


> I don't care if it works or not. The experimental drug is NOT A VACCINE.
> 
> It is at best a prophylactic  therapy. There is a benefit to having the shot.  No argument.
> However,
> It's not much better than the paper masks which claim right on the box,  "WILL NOT PREVENT COVID-19."  They also have some benefit.
> 
> For the record, I am not anti shot for COVID.   Just listen to you lying ears and eyes when the "experts" tell you what you must do instead.
> 
> If you are an American, YOU have the inalienable right to decide.


I agree 1,000% with everything you said here, Francis.
That said, I'm doing an 8 hour shift in our covid wing today.
11 residents.
3 are in the hospital.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Media didn’t disclose doctor’s $2M in Pfizer funding in coverage promoting child vaccination
					

Dr. Jim Kellner, a pediatrician and University of Calgary professor, has been cited as an authority in dozens of articles published by CTV News, CBC, Global News, the Toronto Star, and the Globe and Mail on vaccinating children and other pandemic related issues.




					tnc.news


----------



## FrancSevin

pirate_girl said:


> I agree 1,000% with everything you said here, Francis.
> That said, I'm doing an 8 hour shift in our covid wing today.
> 11 residents.
> 3 are in the hospital.


God with you girl,  you are my hero.


----------



## m1west

I don't know if Covid is done with me, but I'm done with it.


----------



## pirate_girl

m1west said:


> I don't know if Covid is done with me, but I'm done with it.


Same here!
Tired of thinking about it, dealing with it..


----------



## pirate_girl

Welp!








						White House press secretary Jen Psaki has COVID-19
					

White House press secretary Jen Psaki said Sunday she has contracted COVID-19 and is experiencing mild symptoms.




					www.chicagotribune.com


----------



## mla2ofus

All I can say is "KARMA".


----------



## pirate_girl




----------



## Doc

I have to wonder how much these companies are being paid for each vaccine?    It is in their best interest to keep us having to get boosters every six months.   Of course I'll be the government is paying top dollar for every vaccine.   Anyone know how much has been paid out for these pokes in the arm?


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Doc said:


> I have to wonder how much these companies are being paid for each vaccine? It is in their best interest to keep us having to get boosters every six months. Of course I'll be the government is paying top dollar for every vaccine. Anyone know how much has been paid out for these pokes in the arm?


Just look at the 1 year or 5 year charts here:  https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/MRNA?p=MRNA


----------



## pirate_girl

Doc, I fear the government more than I do this virus.
3 of our covid residents are cleared now to go back to their rooms.
We had a trunk or treat thing last night over at the facility.
Little kiddies walking around waving at them through the windows.
They are ALL stable on the covid unit.
One lady came back from the hospital.
She was on a vent, but from what I hear, she's going to be ok.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Top scientist quits SAGE over UK's 'concerning' Covid infection rates
					

Sir Jeremy Farrar, who is also director of scientific charity, the Wellcome Trust, stepped down from the advisory group last month.




					www.dailymail.co.uk


----------



## mla2ofus

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq said:


> Top scientist quits SAGE over UK's 'concerning' Covid infection rates
> 
> 
> Sir Jeremy Farrar, who is also director of scientific charity, the Wellcome Trust, stepped down from the advisory group last month.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk




   And still not a word about using ivermectin or hydroxychloroquin!!


----------



## echo

We already had the first version.
Sick as hell for two weeks, coughed and had no (pardon me. spit)
Chicken soup fixed everything


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Doc ... 65 Billion for Pfizer - just from vax sales:





__





						Pfizer expects 2021, 2022 COVID-19 vaccine sales to total at least $65 bln
					

PFIZER-RESULTS/ (UPDATE 4, PIX):UPDATE 4-Pfizer expects 2021, 2022 COVID-19 vaccine sales to total at least $65 bln




					news.trust.org


----------



## mla2ofus

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq said:


> Doc ... 65 Billion for Pfizer - just from vax sales:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pfizer expects 2021, 2022 COVID-19 vaccine sales to total at least $65 bln
> 
> 
> PFIZER-RESULTS/ (UPDATE 4, PIX):UPDATE 4-Pfizer expects 2021, 2022 COVID-19 vaccine sales to total at least $65 bln
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.trust.org



    That's what makes question the need for the booster!!


----------



## m1west

if you are healthy I question the need for any of it, and I had it.


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> if you are healthy I question the need for any of it, and I had it.


I question the need for any healthy people under 50 years old to get the vaccine.

I got the vaccine because I am not healthy. 

Anyone over 50, given the Delta/Indian variant's spreadability, should seriously consider vaccination.  It does not appear to be statistically more lethal.  It just is spreads much faster.


----------



## m1west

My cabin neighbor in his 50's got it last year, then got the shots, just got it again. I will post how it went for him in a couple weeks.


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> My cabin neighbor in his 50's got it last year, then got the shots, just got it again. I will post how it went for him in a couple weeks.


The variants are changing things and making people more likely to get Covid, even those with natural and vaccine immunity.  We have known that neither actually prevents reinfection but reinfection is far less likely to be severe. 

Just like the seasonal flu, which is a different strain every year, is endemic it appears that Covid has become endemic too.  It won't go away.  And as long as we watch the risk factors and adapt we can live with this too.  Statistically this is a disease that puts older people at much higher risk.  Younger people are at statistically insignificant risk levels for seriously complications or death.


----------



## pirate_girl

Notice the stats don't mention how many of these were vaccinated.


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> The variants are changing things and making people more likely to get Covid, even those with natural and vaccine immunity.  We have known that neither actually prevents reinfection but reinfection is far less likely to be severe.
> 
> Just like the seasonal flu, which is a different strain every year, is endemic it appears that Covid has become endemic too.  It won't go away.  And as long as we watch the risk factors and adapt we can live with this too.  Statistically this is a disease that puts older people at much higher risk.  Younger people are at statistically insignificant risk levels for seriously complications or death.


I agree and have held that position since the beginning. Lets hope the mutations make it more mild as they go, although DELTA didn't behave that way. The focus should be on therapeutics, I would call the vaccines more of a therapeutic than a vaccine, as they don't really prevent anything. Just not enough time to see what the long term effects are, for me to get the jab, I'm going to give it some time before I make that decision.


----------



## FrancSevin

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq said:


> Doc ... 65 Billion for Pfizer - just from vax sales:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pfizer expects 2021, 2022 COVID-19 vaccine sales to total at least $65 bln
> 
> 
> PFIZER-RESULTS/ (UPDATE 4, PIX):UPDATE 4-Pfizer expects 2021, 2022 COVID-19 vaccine sales to total at least $65 bln
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.trust.org


Ya'll keep in mind the shot is not free.

WE THE PEOPLE are paying for it.


----------



## EastTexFrank

FrancSevin said:


> Ya'll keep in mind the shot is not free.
> 
> WE THE PEOPLE are paying for it.



Well, if that's the case, I can't wait for my booster for my booster.


----------



## Melensdad

Regeneron has finally released their anti-Covid cocktail.  And it works.

So we have several treatments that are actually proven and which will become widely available very quickly.

Screen shot from ZERO HEDGE


----------



## Melensdad

Interesting 23 minute video from Dr Campbell about Ivermectin and the new Pfizer drug (_that works just like Ivermectin works_).   Hmmm.... maybe Ivermectin actually works?!?  Oh, no you can't actually say Ivermectin works so you make a new patented drug that mirrors Ivermectin.  

Spend the time it takes to watch this video.


----------



## m1west

m1west said:


> My cabin neighbor in his 50's got it last year, then got the shots, just got it again. I will post how it went for him in a couple weeks.


Cabin neighbor and wife, made it through again, the are both fully vaccinated and said that the second time with the delta variant was  similar to the first time.


----------



## Melensdad

More news on viable treatments...

This from VOX https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/...t-for-covid-fluvoxamine-molnupiravir-paxlovid

For the full article see the link above but this outlines a good bit of the current and upcoming development on treatments.  The article has lots of LINKS which I omitted for space considerations.  

In recent months, researchers have made some advances in figuring out how to treat Covid-19 once you’ve contracted it. Of particular promise are medications available in a form that should be especially useful in the fight against the virus: pills. Pills are easy to store and ship, making them a more feasible option for worldwide distribution, and they don’t tax already overloaded hospital resources during a surge.​​To understand why the development of anti-Covid pills is a big deal, think about how we’ve been able to treat Covid-19 thus far. In the nearly two years since this coronavirus started spreading, we’ve learned a lot about how to care for patients who are sick enough to require hospital care. Cheap, widely available drugs such as dexamethasone have substantially reduced the hospital mortality rate for severe Covid-19.​​But there are fewer options for sick people who haven’t been hospitalized. The one outpatient treatment authorized for emergency use and widely available in the US is monoclonal antibodies, which work quite well but must be administered as either a single IV infusion or a series of four shots in a medical setting.​​Uptake of monoclonal antibodies reportedly isn’t as high as it should be, and the treatment itself, while free to US patients, is pricey, costing the US government $2,100 per dose.​​So as effective as monoclonal antibodies have been, there’s still a large void in our early treatment arsenal. When the virus surges in an area, hospitals get overwhelmed, meaning that people who end up needing treatment might not get it. Meanwhile, people with mild to moderate cases are told to stay home, where they have very few options.​​The lack of good early treatments for Covid-19 has led to high demand for drugs that have gained adherents but probably don’t help all that much, from hydroxychloroquine to metformin to ivermectin. The effort to figure out how and whether those treatments work has been marred by widespread fraud in published research investigating them.​​But there’s finally been some real progress on identifying Covid-19 treatments that not only are highly effective but also available for Covid-19 sufferers to take at home.​​Fighting Covid-19 with a pill​One pill that’s been shown to be effective against the disease wasn’t even made to fight Covid-19.​​Fluvoxamine is a cheap, generic antidepressant that’s been around since the 1990s. It also appears to reduce hospitalizations and deaths by Covid-19 by up to 30 percent, according to the results of a randomized, controlled trial, the initial findings of which I reported on back in August. Results from the so-called TOGETHER study, which tested fluvoxamine and some other treatments, were recently published in _The Lancet_ medical journal.​​How does fluvoxamine work in the case of Covid-19? Researchers’ best guess is that it modulates the body’s inflammatory response and reduces lung damage as the immune system fights off the coronavirus.​​A 30 percent reduction in hospitalizations and deaths may not strike you as particularly high, but the drug is cheap (only $4 per dose) and has a demonstrated track record of safety (it’s FDA approved), which should strengthen the case for adding it to the global arsenal in the fight against the pandemic.​​Despite encouraging trial results and a great safety profile, the National Institutes of Health’s treatment guidelines for fluvoxamine haven’t been updated since April, and the drug isn’t widely prescribed or recommended for Covid-19 patients. Doctors can make the call to prescribe fluvoxamine as an off-label treatment, but many might be reluctant to do so until the drug’s official guidelines incorporate evidence from large, reputable clinical studies demonstrating its efficacy. Now that the TOGETHER results have been published, though, doctors might be more willing to write those prescriptions.​​An even more promising pill is Merck’s molnupiravir. Unlike fluvoxamine, it’s not already FDA approved, but it’s also repurposed after a fashion: Merck began developing the antiviral as an influenza treatment. It’s taken as a batch of up to four pills, twice a day for five days.​​In Merck’s studies, molnupiravir reduced Covid-19 hospitalizations and deaths by about half. The UK granted the drug “conditional authorization” last week; the FDA has been reviewing the data since mid-October and will hold a hearing to discuss the data on November 30.​​The US government has committed to purchasing 1.7 million courses of the drug for about $700 apiece once it’s approved or authorized for emergency use. Merck has licensed the generic manufacturing of molnupiravir at a much, much cheaper price in more than 100 developing countries, and the success of that program will be key for molnupiravir to make a difference worldwide.​​Finally, Pfizer’s Paxlovid is a little farther away from widespread availability, but recent research suggests it might be poised to make a huge difference. Paxlovid is an antiviral developed to target Covid-19 specifically by blocking a specific enzyme the virus needs to reproduce itself.​​An interim analysis of an ongoing trial published by Pfizer last week noted that Paxlovid reduced the risk of hospitalization or death by 89 percent for adults at risk of severe Covid-19. That’s a huge effect size, and it’s always wise to be a little skeptical of results that good.​​But if the studies hold up — and there are more ongoing that could support or refute the existing data — that could effectively mean the end of the pandemic. For many people, getting sick from Covid-19 would be much less of a danger.​​Down the pike​There are many other early Covid-19 treatments under development and in testing, too. For instance, researchers in the UK found that inhaled budesonide, a medication used to treat asthma, reduced recovery time, hospital admissions, and deaths in Covid-19 patients; studies are underway to confirm those results and to check how budesonide interacts with other early treatments.​​The antiviral remdesivir offers little benefit for Covid-19 patients and probably “makes little or no difference” in mortality, according to a systematic review of multiple studieson its effects. Gilead Sciences is developing a pill version for non-hospitalized patients in the hope that remdesivir might work better as an early treatment; some early evidence bears that out. . . .​


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> More news on viable treatments...
> 
> This from VOX https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/...t-for-covid-fluvoxamine-molnupiravir-paxlovid
> 
> For the full article see the link above but this outlines a good bit of the current and upcoming development on treatments.  The article has lots of LINKS which I omitted for space considerations.
> 
> In recent months, researchers have made some advances in figuring out how to treat Covid-19 once you’ve contracted it. Of particular promise are medications available in a form that should be especially useful in the fight against the virus: pills. Pills are easy to store and ship, making them a more feasible option for worldwide distribution, and they don’t tax already overloaded hospital resources during a surge.​​To understand why the development of anti-Covid pills is a big deal, think about how we’ve been able to treat Covid-19 thus far. In the nearly two years since this coronavirus started spreading, we’ve learned a lot about how to care for patients who are sick enough to require hospital care. Cheap, widely available drugs such as dexamethasone have substantially reduced the hospital mortality rate for severe Covid-19.​​But there are fewer options for sick people who haven’t been hospitalized. The one outpatient treatment authorized for emergency use and widely available in the US is monoclonal antibodies, which work quite well but must be administered as either a single IV infusion or a series of four shots in a medical setting.​​Uptake of monoclonal antibodies reportedly isn’t as high as it should be, and the treatment itself, while free to US patients, is pricey, costing the US government $2,100 per dose.​​So as effective as monoclonal antibodies have been, there’s still a large void in our early treatment arsenal. When the virus surges in an area, hospitals get overwhelmed, meaning that people who end up needing treatment might not get it. Meanwhile, people with mild to moderate cases are told to stay home, where they have very few options.​​The lack of good early treatments for Covid-19 has led to high demand for drugs that have gained adherents but probably don’t help all that much, from hydroxychloroquine to metformin to ivermectin. The effort to figure out how and whether those treatments work has been marred by widespread fraud in published research investigating them.​​But there’s finally been some real progress on identifying Covid-19 treatments that not only are highly effective but also available for Covid-19 sufferers to take at home.​​Fighting Covid-19 with a pill​One pill that’s been shown to be effective against the disease wasn’t even made to fight Covid-19.​​Fluvoxamine is a cheap, generic antidepressant that’s been around since the 1990s. It also appears to reduce hospitalizations and deaths by Covid-19 by up to 30 percent, according to the results of a randomized, controlled trial, the initial findings of which I reported on back in August. Results from the so-called TOGETHER study, which tested fluvoxamine and some other treatments, were recently published in _The Lancet_ medical journal.​​How does fluvoxamine work in the case of Covid-19? Researchers’ best guess is that it modulates the body’s inflammatory response and reduces lung damage as the immune system fights off the coronavirus.​​A 30 percent reduction in hospitalizations and deaths may not strike you as particularly high, but the drug is cheap (only $4 per dose) and has a demonstrated track record of safety (it’s FDA approved), which should strengthen the case for adding it to the global arsenal in the fight against the pandemic.​​Despite encouraging trial results and a great safety profile, the National Institutes of Health’s treatment guidelines for fluvoxamine haven’t been updated since April, and the drug isn’t widely prescribed or recommended for Covid-19 patients. Doctors can make the call to prescribe fluvoxamine as an off-label treatment, but many might be reluctant to do so until the drug’s official guidelines incorporate evidence from large, reputable clinical studies demonstrating its efficacy. Now that the TOGETHER results have been published, though, doctors might be more willing to write those prescriptions.​​An even more promising pill is Merck’s molnupiravir. Unlike fluvoxamine, it’s not already FDA approved, but it’s also repurposed after a fashion: Merck began developing the antiviral as an influenza treatment. It’s taken as a batch of up to four pills, twice a day for five days.​​In Merck’s studies, molnupiravir reduced Covid-19 hospitalizations and deaths by about half. The UK granted the drug “conditional authorization” last week; the FDA has been reviewing the data since mid-October and will hold a hearing to discuss the data on November 30.​​The US government has committed to purchasing 1.7 million courses of the drug for about $700 apiece once it’s approved or authorized for emergency use. Merck has licensed the generic manufacturing of molnupiravir at a much, much cheaper price in more than 100 developing countries, and the success of that program will be key for molnupiravir to make a difference worldwide.​​Finally, Pfizer’s Paxlovid is a little farther away from widespread availability, but recent research suggests it might be poised to make a huge difference. Paxlovid is an antiviral developed to target Covid-19 specifically by blocking a specific enzyme the virus needs to reproduce itself.​​An interim analysis of an ongoing trial published by Pfizer last week noted that Paxlovid reduced the risk of hospitalization or death by 89 percent for adults at risk of severe Covid-19. That’s a huge effect size, and it’s always wise to be a little skeptical of results that good.​​But if the studies hold up — and there are more ongoing that could support or refute the existing data — that could effectively mean the end of the pandemic. For many people, getting sick from Covid-19 would be much less of a danger.​​Down the pike​There are many other early Covid-19 treatments under development and in testing, too. For instance, researchers in the UK found that inhaled budesonide, a medication used to treat asthma, reduced recovery time, hospital admissions, and deaths in Covid-19 patients; studies are underway to confirm those results and to check how budesonide interacts with other early treatments.​​The antiviral remdesivir offers little benefit for Covid-19 patients and probably “makes little or no difference” in mortality, according to a systematic review of multiple studieson its effects. Gilead Sciences is developing a pill version for non-hospitalized patients in the hope that remdesivir might work better as an early treatment; some early evidence bears that out. . . .​


Remdesivir saved my wife life. She only got 2 doses because her liver function deteriorated, she was in bad shape getting worse before the treatment. " little or no difference " = B.S.


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> Remdesivir saved my wife life. She only got 2 doses because her liver function deteriorated, she was in bad shape getting worse before the treatment. " little or no difference " = B.S.


There is a lot of evidence that it has no effect on MOST people.  While it is great news that it worked for your wife, she is one of the very rare people that that medication seems to help.  It is generally considered, by the medical community, to be an ineffective treatment.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

A friend of mine just got back from a trip to the uk with her parents. All double vaxed. When they got back a week ago, her mom began showing symptoms and tested positive. Then her dad became ill. He passed away 3 days ago.


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> There is a lot of evidence that it has no effect on MOST people.  While it is great news that it worked for your wife, she is one of the very rare people that that medication seems to help.  It is generally considered, by the medical community, to be an ineffective treatment.


Like the evidence that Hydroxiechloriquin, Ivermectin and antibodies don't work?


----------



## m1west

NorthernRedneck said:


> A friend of mine just got back from a trip to the uk with her parents. All double vaxed. When they got back a week ago, her mom began showing symptoms and tested positive. Then her dad became ill. He passed away 3 days ago.


Double vaxed and still died? I thought it prevented that. Condolences to your friend for there loss.


----------



## m1west

Then there is Gavin Newsome, the poster boy for Vax, He got his booster then disappeared for 10 days. Word on the street is he had a bad reaction and was hospitalized. I understand the vax has worked on some folks, but for others its a condom with a hole in it.


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> Then there is Gavin Newsome, the poster boy for Vax, He got his booster then disappeared for 10 days. Word on the street is he had a bad reaction and was hospitalized. I understand the vax has worked on some folks, but for others its a condom with a hole in it.


More than word on the street.  He got both the flu and the Covid shots the same day.  There are several news sources saying the was sick as a dog for 10 days.


----------



## pirate_girl

Our wound nurse/unit manager for first shift passed away suddenly and unexpectedly from covid/double pneumonia early yesterday morning. 
57 years old.


----------



## m1west

pirate_girl said:


> Our wound nurse/unit manager for first shift passed away suddenly and unexpectedly from covid/double pneumonia early yesterday morning.
> 57 years old.


Thats terrible, can I ask, if she was Vaccinated ?


----------



## pirate_girl

m1west said:


> Thats terrible, can I ask, if she was Vaccinated ?


No Marty, she was not.
Last week she had called in sick.
It was all pretty quick.
We heard she had been placed on a vent because her o2 levels were dropping into the 50s. No meds or any other treatments were helping. Once I heard that I knew it wouldn't be long.
They are saying they're going to mandate the vaccine at all healthcare facilities.
While I HATE covid, at the same time I think it should be ones choice to receive it.

That said, our remaining residents on the covid unit : 3.
That's good news.
Of the dozen who were on the unit, only one suffered badly.
The others are all back in their own rooms.


----------



## FrancSevin

You are a brave soul Lollie.  Proud to have you as a friend.


----------



## Melensdad

While I do NOT want this thread to become political and do NOT want to get into arguments about the mandates, this does seem to be a legitimate news topic that is pertinent to the topic of this thread, which is primarily medical.

Please follow the link for the full story, only the first few paragraphs are posted below:





__





						Federal appeals court halts Biden administration’s vaccine requirement, delivering policy a major blow
					





					www.msn.com
				




​*A federal appeals court in New Orleans has halted the Biden administration’s vaccine or testing requirement for private businesses*, delivering another political setback to one of the White House’s signature public health policies.​​A three-judge panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 5th Circuit, helmed by one judge who was appointed by President Ronald Reagan and two others who were appointed by President Donald Trump, issued the ruling Friday, after temporarily halting the mandate last weekend in response to lawsuits filed by Republican-aligned businesses and legal groups. ​​*Calling the requirement a “mandate,”* the court said the rule, instituted through the Labor Department,* “grossly exceeds OSHA’s statutory authority,”*​


----------



## NorthernRedneck

On the topic of mandatory vaccination, up here, the government didn't exactly make it mandatory and keep insisting that people have a choice to vaccinate. When the government is talking with their right hand, be cautious about the left hand. 

They essentially gave workplaces the power to fire anyone not vaccinated. So while the right hand is saying that you aren't forced to get it, the left hand is saying "Here's what will happen if you don't....you'll lose your job, house, vehicle, any social gathering places such as restaurants, sports events etc, you won't be able to attend funerals indoors even if it's your spouse or a parent or child..."  Basically, they are holding a gun to your head saying that you don't have to get it but if you don't, I'm pulling the trigger.


----------



## m1west

NorthernRedneck said:


> On the topic of mandatory vaccination, up here, the government didn't exactly make it mandatory and keep insisting that people have a choice to vaccinate. When the government is talking with their right hand, be cautious about the left hand.
> 
> They essentially gave workplaces the power to fire anyone not vaccinated. So while the right hand is saying that you aren't forced to get it, the left hand is saying "Here's what will happen if you don't....you'll lose your job, house, vehicle, any social gathering places such as restaurants, sports events etc, you won't be able to attend funerals indoors even if it's your spouse or a parent or child..."  Basically, they are holding a gun to your head saying that you don't have to get it but if you don't, I'm pulling the trigger.


666


----------



## mla2ofus

m1west said:


> 666


Or hammer and sickle!!


----------



## FrancSevin

NorthernRedneck said:


> On the topic of mandatory vaccination, up here, the government didn't exactly make it mandatory and keep insisting that people have a choice to vaccinate. When the government is talking with their right hand, be cautious about the left hand.
> 
> They essentially gave workplaces the power to fire anyone not vaccinated. So while the right hand is saying that you aren't forced to get it, the left hand is saying "Here's what will happen if you don't....you'll lose your job, house, vehicle, any social gathering places such as restaurants, sports events etc, you won't be able to attend funerals indoors even if it's your spouse or a parent or child..."  Basically, they are holding a gun to your head saying that you don't have to get it but if you don't, I'm pulling the trigger.


Same thing here Brian.

Unvaccinated, down with COVID, I wonder. Given the hysteria here, if I die will I be able to attend my own funeral?


----------



## echo

Now they are saying:
If you are fat, you have a higher risk <chuckle> not at fat people but bringing up old scare ideas.


----------



## m1west

echo said:


> Now they are saying:
> If you are fat, you have a higher risk <chuckle> not at fat people but bringing up old scare ideas.


Seriously though, overweight is a risk factor with it.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

FrancSevin said:


> Same thing here Brian.
> 
> Unvaccinated, down with COVID, I wonder. Given the hysteria here, if I die will I be able to attend my own funeral?



Funny (actually not funny) that you mentioned that. When dad was killed in September, he was almost late to his own funeral because of covid. Normally they would do an autopsy here for an accidental death. For some strange reason, they made it mandatory for all autopsies in Ontario to be done in Toronto. Normally, they can fly any number of bodies to Toronto for an autopsy and within 3-4 days, the body is back here and the funeral is done within a week of the death. In dad's case, he died on Monday but they couldn't get him out until Friday. The autopsy was done the following Monday then we were getting the run around as to when he would be sent back as the airline that could normally ship any number of bodies pre covid all of a sudden could only ship one body per day. We were making plans for a Saturday funeral 2 weeks after he died and couldn't guarantee that he would be able to make it home for his own funeral.  Even the Wednesday before the scheduled funeral, they couldn't guarantee that he would be back in time. My brother and I were prepared to drive the 18 hour one way drive down to get him ourselves to bring him back. 

Same thing with all the stupid bs rules surrounding covid. Dad died on the Monday. That Saturday, we were at the local dirt track races for the weekend where 5000+ people were squished in the grandstands shoulder to shoulder most not wearing masks. The following weekend, we couldn't have more than 40 close family members attending dad's funeral in a hall designed for 300. And we all had to wear masks and stay 6 feet apart. And there was debate in behind the scenes on whether or not unvaccinated people would be able to attend. Oh, and if the service was to happen at a church,  the same restrictions would apply. But after the service, the person I had to stay 6 feet apart from and wear a mask around could walk across the street with me and go into a restaurant, sit down beside me, and take off the mask to eat. Because that makes allot of sense.


----------



## echo

When I had the virus, I lost about ten pounds.


----------



## m1west

echo said:


> When I had the virus, I lost about ten pounds.


me too


----------



## pirate_girl

We had our meeting at work today regarding the vaccine mandate deadline.
Let me just say, tempers flared.
I stand with my sisters and brothers in nursing who are flatly refusing.
The administrator urged the signing of the exemption form, based on medical and religious grounds.
She said, you all better get religious real fast.
This isn't an OSHA thing, corporate are staying out of it.
It's about losing Medicare and Medicaid funding at the end of the day.
It's said that those who do not comply will not be able to test free at work on the usual days, but will be charged via their insurance.
I think it's all bullshit.


----------



## Doc

I thought a judge said they could not implement the mandated vaccine?   

Our daughter in law said the hospital she works at is making ready too.   They cannot afford to lose the Medicare / Medicaid funds so people who do not comply will be fired.   What a fucking mess.   If Biden screws the entire health care world with this mandate we will all be in a world of hurt.  More will die, the result of good intentions but idiotic that they can't think it through and see the repercussions of such actions.


----------



## pirate_girl

Doc said:


> I thought a judge said they could not implement the mandated vaccine?
> 
> Our daughter in law said the hospital she works at is making ready too.   They cannot afford to lose the Medicare / Medicaid funds so people who do not comply will be fired.   What a fucking mess.   If Biden screws the entire health care world with this mandate we will all be in a world of hurt.  More will die, the result of good intentions but idiotic that they can't think it through and see the repercussions of such actions.


Doc, that's why our meeting got so heated.
I opened my mouth, even being fully vaccinated as did some others.
Do they really care about the care of patients and residents?
No, they DO care about keeping facilities open and running with funding coming in.
Even though most healthcare facilities are already short staffed and struggling, they do not give two shits.
Comply and obey, or suffer the consequences.
I never thought I'd live to see anything like this.


----------



## m1west

pirate_girl said:


> Doc, that's why our meeting got so heated.
> I opened my mouth, even being fully vaccinated as did some others.
> Do they really care about the care of patients and residents?
> No, they DO care about keeping facilities open and running with funding coming in.
> Even though most healthcare facilities are already short staffed and struggling, they do not give two shits.
> Comply and obey, or suffer the consequences.
> I never thought I'd live to see anything like this.


You can sue the vaccine makers, but I'm thinking if an employer mandates it, they could be on the hook for any adverse reactions.


----------



## pirate_girl

m1west said:


> You can sue the vaccine makers, but I'm thinking if an employer mandates it, they could be on the hook for any adverse reactions.


This was something that was brought up today as well.
I do not know where all of this is going to end, (if it ever ends).. but I'm hoping it's going to come down to masking for the next year or vaccines for those who comply being the acceptable route/ or hopefully our powers that be will eventually step in at the 11th hour and see that healthcare adequately staffed is the answer.
This cannot possibly happen any other way.
There needs to be middle ground for the sake of those who need it.


----------



## Doc

pirate_girl said:


> This was something that was brought up today as well.
> I do not know where all of this is going to end, (if it ever ends).. but I'm hoping it's going to come down to masking for the next year or vaccines for those who comply being the acceptable route/ or hopefully our powers that be will eventually step in at the 11th hour and see that healthcare adequately staffed is the answer.
> This cannot possibly happen any other way.
> There needs to be middle ground for the sake of those who need it.


Well said.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

There are two mandates.  The OSHA mandate which is most likely going to get blocked.  The other mandate is an Executive Order for any business with a Federal Government contract.  This one is going to be harder to block and is the one that is really impacting businesses and employees.


----------



## pirate_girl

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq said:


> There are two mandates.  The OSHA mandate which is most likely going to get blocked.  The other mandate is an Executive Order for any business with a Federal Government contract.  This one is going to be harder to block and is the one that is really impacting businesses and employees.


Yes, it's the CMS mandate for us.









						CMS Vaccination Mandate Has Broad Reach, Quick Turnaround
					

Most healthcare facilities in the U.S. will be required – in less than 60 days – to ensure their employees and many others who enter their premises are vaccinated to minimize COVID-19 tran




					www.natlawreview.com


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

This is the second video I've seen reporting negative effects of the mrna based vaccine:


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Also there's this:








						More people died in the key clinical trial for Pfizer's Covid vaccine than the company publicly reported
					

Pfizer told the world 15 people who received the vaccine in its trial had died as of mid-March. Turns out the real number then was 21, compared to only 17 deaths in people who hadn't been vaccinated.




					alexberenson.substack.com


----------



## mla2ofus

FJB and the media always forget to mention this is still an experimental vaccine.


----------



## Melensdad

I have been pushing the stories of Vitamin D for much of the Covid period, here is some more information on Vitamin D and Covid.

If you don't take a daily Vitamin D tablet you may want to start doing so.  It takes time to build up in your system.  So you simply want to be proactive.  The good thing is that Vitamin D3 is cheap and easily available.

Seriously folks, please consider a daily Vitamin D tablet/capsule/pill.







And part 2


----------



## Ceee

Melensdad said:


> Seriously folks, please consider a daily Vitamin D tablet/capsule/pill.


I take it every day, without fail.


----------



## pirate_girl

Ceee said:


> I take it every day, without fail.


Same here. 4,000 IU of D3 every single day.


----------



## mla2ofus

We, too, take it.


----------



## Mark1911

I have thus far avoided the vaccine, having had Covid just about one year ago now. It went through the whole family (The wife and I, and our two teens) with the only serious impact being that we all lost taste and smell for about 6 weeks. You’d think you’d lose a bit of weight, not being able to taste food for a month and a half, but you’d be wrong, lol.

Any way, if push comes to shove and I need to get the vaccine to continue my job, then I will most likely submit - I’m not going to die on that hill. HOWEVER, I will do whatever is necessary to keep that vaccine OUT of my teen-age children’s bodies - and I mean whatever is necessary, wether it be home-schooling, private schooling, etc. in my humble opinion, vaccinating children against Covid is asinine. Kids <18 have a vanishingly small chance of serious reaction to Covid - their chances of severe reaction to the vaccine are at least 5x more than a sever reaction to Covid - ESPICALLY if they have previously contracted and recovered from the virus.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq




----------



## Melensdad

Good video.  We have known that natural immunity, which can only be gained by first getting covid, is more powerful than any of the various vaccines.  This video gives more validation to that.

Notice that the Dr Beem also stated that he does *not* recommend going out and getting Covid to attain natural immunity. He quite correctly points out that natural immunity, if you have it, is better, statistically than the shots.

It is logical to question why nations are issuing "vaccine passports" and why venues are requiring vaccines when, realistically, it would be better to issue "immunity passports" for these purposes.

Here are the study conclusions from the link provided at the video source above:

Results and Discussion During the study period (December 16, 2020 to September 30, 2021), 4615 HCWs contributed to a total of 1,152,486 person-days at risk (excluding 309 HCWs with prior infection) and had a COVID-19 incidence rate of 5.2/10,000 (114 infections out of 219,842 person-days) for unvaccinated person-days and 0.6/10,000 (49 infections out of 830,084 person-days) for fully vaccinated person-days, resulting in an adjusted VE of 82.3% (95% CI: 75.1–87.4%). For the secondary analysis limited to the period of delta variant predominance in Massachusetts (i.e., July 1 to September 30, 2021), we observed an adjusted VE of 76.5% (95% CI: 40.9–90.6%). Independently, we found no re-infection among those with prior COVID-19, contributing to 74,557 re-infection-free person-days, adding to the evidence base for the robustness of naturally acquired immunity.


----------



## Melensdad

Covid (anti-viral) pills could be the next defense.  And, at least the one developed by Emory University and licensed to Ridgeback - Merck, can also treat Ebola and a host of other viral infections.





__





						Outline.com
					






					outline.com
				




The full article is at the link above, and it is a long article with lots of information.  Worth reading.  But here is the gist of the article's discussion on its effectiveness in trials:


_The Emory researchers named their drug molnupiravir, after Mjölnir—the hammer of Thor. It turns out that this was not hyperbole. Last month, Merck and Ridgeback announced that molnupiravir could reduce by half the chances that a person infected by the coronavirus would need to be hospitalized. *The drug was so overwhelmingly effective that an independent committee asked the researchers to stop their Phase III trial early—it would have been unethical to continue giving participants placebos*. None of the nearly four hundred patients who received molnupiravir in the trial went on to die, and the drug had no major side effects. On November 4th, the U.K. became the first country to approve molnupiravir; many observers expect that an emergency-use authorization will come from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration in December._​


----------



## Melensdad

We have ZERO PROOF that Ivermectin actually works.

But we know that in African nations that allow Ivermetin have low cases
And we know that in India, with regions allowing Ivermectin, the cases are low
Now we have this information from Japan . . . hmmm!?!

Please watch:


----------



## FrancSevin

pirate_girl said:


> Doc, that's why our meeting got so heated.
> I opened my mouth, even being fully vaccinated as did some others.
> Do they really care about the care of patients and residents?
> No, they DO care about keeping facilities open and running with funding coming in.
> Even though most healthcare facilities are already short staffed and struggling, they do not give two shits.
> Comply and obey, or suffer the consequences.
> I never thought I'd live to see anything like this.


Since the issue of funding seems pertinent to the choices given, I would suggest this isn't about safety of the facilities,  but power.
There simply has not been enough success with the "vaccine"  to motivate and encourage the public to get the "free" shot.

Over 650,000 people die of the Flu every year. Vaccinations, that aren't free, haven't done much to save them from themselves. People still get them, every year, on purpose. However, we don't hear cries for mandates and lock downs over the Flu.

Why is that?

Perhaps because it is obviously not possible to control the people with a trumped-up fear of the known.

This pandemic was not from natural causes. Did our enemies create it?
Did our government assist them? Perhaps we should focus our attention from _"what"_ we should fear, to whom.
__________________


----------



## mla2ofus

I believe this vaccine deal has gotten to be more about $$$ and the big question is: how many pockets is it going in


----------



## FrancSevin

mla2ofus said:


> I believe this vaccine deal has gotten to be more about $$$ and the big question is: how many pockets is it going in


Likely true.  But I doubt COVID 19 was invented as much for profit, as political power.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

FrancSevin said:


> Likely true. But I doubt COVID 19 was invented as much for profit, as political power.


The global elite saw COVID as an opportunity to advance their "Build Back Better" agenda.  They manipulated it to get rid of Trump who was going to crush them on the strength of the economy before COVID.  Once they got rid of Trump they can now focus on destroy the American ideals like liberty and restricted government.

Never let a crisis go to waste.


----------



## Melensdad

I'd recommend to all who view this thread that we are NOT in the political or debate area so PLEASE let's keep this thread to actual information about the disease, treatment, etc.

You all know I have no problem discussing politics, but this is not the thread for that.


----------



## FrancSevin

Melensdad said:


> I'd recommend to all who view this thread that we are NOT in the political or debate area so PLEASE let's keep this thread to actual information about the disease, treatment, etc.
> 
> You all know I have no problem discussing politics, but this is not the thread for that.


I would suggest sir with all due respect COVID is beyond political  

You cannot separate the two.  The simple fact is our government let us down.  
The subject of politics and Covid is as fungible as Wuhan lab gain of function funding 
So I would also suggest some latitude.


----------



## m1west

FrancSevin said:


> I would suggest sir with all due respect COVID is beyond political
> 
> You cannot separate the two.  The simple fact is our government let us down.
> The subject of politics and Covid is as fungible as Wuhan lab gain of function funding
> So I would also suggest some latitude.


Franc is back


----------



## pirate_girl

Bob, your opening line for this thread is "when the government tells me I don't need to worry"....

One cannot speak of covid 19 now WITHOUT it being political because it has become just that.


----------



## Melensdad

We have maintained, throughout this thread, the general topic of medical information and updates.  

We have debate areas for politics, and there is a lot of we can get into but this thread generally stays out of those and sticks with news about the actual virus, treatments, etc.


----------



## pirate_girl

Ok.


----------



## FrancSevin

m1west said:


> Franc is back


Damn right. .....and mad as hell

COVID  was a hoot.


----------



## FrancSevin

pirate_girl said:


> Bob, your opening line for this thread is "when the government tells me I don't need to worry"....
> 
> One cannot speak of covid 19 now WITHOUT it being political because it has become just that.


Amen!


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

I will add that even the medical advice and information from either side of the spectrum has been and will continue to be highly political.  

From the left's initial refusal to accept the Trump vaccine to their complete flip-flop once Biden was elected to the fervor around mediocre and questionably effective treatments like Hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin from those that now oppose the vaccine.  

The whole thing is political, the one thing that is missing is true long term double blind large scale studies into the effectiveness of any treatment plan.  Everyone is a guinea pig at this time.  For the government to mandate these experimental and questionable treatments is in my opinion criminally negligent.  But I doubt we will ever hold anyone accountable for forcing these treatments and certainly not for the illegal funding of the research that created this pandemic.


----------



## FrancSevin

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq said:


> I will add that even the medical advice and information from either side of the spectrum has been and will continue to be highly political.
> 
> From the left's initial refusal to accept the Trump vaccine to their complete flip-flop once Biden was elected to the fervor around mediocre and questionably effective treatments like Hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin from those that now oppose the vaccine.
> 
> The whole thing is political, the one thing that is missing is true long term double blind large scale studies into the effectiveness of any treatment plan.  Everyone is a guinea pig at this time.  For the government to mandate these experimental and questionable treatments is in my opinion criminally negligent.  But I doubt we will ever hold anyone accountable for forcing these treatments and certainly not for the illegal funding of the research that created this pandemic.


It is in fact against the law to force anyone to take an unproven drug.

Making it available in an emergency is legal
Forcing people to take is not.


----------



## Ceee

There's a new covid variant out there.  Supposedly, it's not in the US yet.  According to the news that I heard, it's possibly more transmissible, possibly more resistant to the current vaccines that we have, and seems to affecting younger people.


----------



## m1west

I also read about that


----------



## pirate_girl

That's the African variant.


----------



## FrancSevin

pirate_girl said:


> That's the African variant.


OH great! A new flavor


----------



## pirate_girl

South African, my bad.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Once again, Flip-flop Fauci is proving he is truly an enemy of the people:









						Fauci says US will not ban flights from South Africa for now
					

On Friday, Dr. Fauci told CNN that a ban on flights from South Africa to the UK was a 'possibility' and that officials are rushing to gather data.




					www.dailymail.co.uk
				




I swear these people want to see the pandemic get worse so they can advance their agenda and their wallets.


----------



## Melensdad

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq said:


> Once again, Flip-flop Fauci is proving he is truly an enemy of the people:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fauci says US will not ban flights from South Africa for now
> 
> 
> On Friday, Dr. Fauci told CNN that a ban on flights from South Africa to the UK was a 'possibility' and that officials are rushing to gather data.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I swear these people want to see the pandemic get worse so they can advance their agenda and their wallets.


Flight ban starts on Monday

Affects 8 nations, so far.


----------



## pirate_girl

Kinda reminds me of 2014/2016?
Ebola.
Outbreak never QUITE made it to the US.
They tried "ring vaccination" over there.
Of course it wasn't trumped by Obama in those days as much as covid is now.
Perhaps Moderna and Pfizer will hurry up with yet another unsafe clot shot.


----------



## Melensdad

pirate_girl said:


> Kinda reminds me of 2014/2016?
> Ebola.
> Outbreak never QUITE made it to the US.
> They tried "ring vaccination" over there.
> Of course it wasn't trumped by Obama in those days as much as covid is now.
> Perhaps Moderna and Pfizer will hurry up with yet another unsafe clot shot.


Pfizer announced they can get one on the market in about 100 days.  Distribution is a bigger problem than mRNA development so distribution takes longer than computer developed viruses. 

At this point none is in development for the new variant.

Nobody knows if it is spreading faster, if it is more lethal, etc etc etc.  We should have a better understanding in about 30 days.

Most viruses tend to become less lethal over time.  The reality is that those people who are "at risk" are the ones who need to be concerned.  The average healthy citizen will likely get it, get a little bit sick, and recover.


----------



## pirate_girl

Melensdad said:


> Pfizer announced they can get one on the market in about 100 days.  Distribution is a bigger problem than mRNA development so distribution takes longer than computer developed viruses.
> 
> At this point none is in development for the new variant.
> 
> Nobody knows if it is spreading faster, if it is more lethal, etc etc etc.  We should have a better understanding in about 30 days.
> 
> Most viruses tend to become less lethal over time.  The reality is that those people who are "at risk" are the ones who need to be concerned.  The average healthy citizen will likely get it, get a little bit sick, and recover.


If you say so.
But I know what I know.
Thanks Bob.


----------



## Melensdad

pirate_girl said:


> If you say so.
> But I know what I know.
> Thanks Bob.


I don't know what that means.

There is no published data on how fast this new one spread.

There is no published data on how less/more lethal this variant is.  But we know from history that most viruses tend to be less lethal over time. 

Based on the current data, and based on published information, we pretty much only know what history tells us about viruses. 

That said, it seems prudent that "at risk" people are the ones who need to take precautions.  And we know that obese, immunosuppressed, elderly and people with pulmonary issues are the highest risks for the current Covid strains so it's reasonable to continue to use those risk factors as the starting points for the new strain.

Late today Pfizer stated it will take at least 2 weeks to know anything about the risks (_if there are any_) of this new variant.  Earlier today the CDC and the WHO both said it will take roughly 4 weeks to know if this variant is going to become an issue.  So right now it is just like many other variants and probably should simply be watched to see if it is simply hype.

So what do you know that I am not saying?


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

What a "surprise" ...









						Merck's COVID-19 pill significantly less effective in new analysis
					

HEALTH-CORONAVIRUS/MERCK & CO (UPDATE 6, PIX):UPDATE 6-Merck's COVID-19 pill significantly less effective in new analysis




					news.trust.org


----------



## Melensdad

Too bad the new pill is not as effective as originally hoped.

With any luck failures like this will put more pressure on governments to try cheap and apparently effective drugs like Ivermectin.  The reality is that people at risk need a treatment.  It is easier to distribute pills to remote corners of the road than it is to move temperature sensitive injectables.  

Ivermectin has not been proven, conclusively, to work.  But it has been shown, anecdotally, to be very effective.  Why we keep wasting our time and huge amounts of money on new drugs without testing what we have is baffling.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Melensdad said:


> Why we keep wasting our time and huge amounts of money on new drugs without testing what we have is baffling.


Follow the money.


----------



## Melensdad

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq said:


> Follow the money.


We have evidence in other parts of the world, with inferior healthcare systems, and yet we don't seem to even get reports of their success, in their own media.


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> Too bad the new pill is not as effective as originally hoped.
> 
> With any luck failures like this will put more pressure on governments to try cheap and apparently effective drugs like Ivermectin.  The reality is that people at risk need a treatment.  It is easier to distribute pills to remote corners of the road than it is to move temperature sensitive injectables.
> 
> Ivermectin has not been proven, conclusively, to work.  But it has been shown, anecdotally, to be very effective.  Why we keep wasting our time and huge amounts of money on new drugs without testing what we have is baffling.


Like G&T says, I think the drug companies and investors know there will never be  a 100% cure. We are suppose to believe that. They know its going to mutate and that is a cash cow for them. Giving out something cheap and effective goes against the narritive. Fact: in the civil war, repeating rifles were available but not given, because they thought you would waist ammunition while trying to survive. Does anyone really believe the government has anyones best interest at heart, besides there own.


----------



## Melensdad

Natural Immunity is now gaining support in the scientific community.

Fully story is at the link.









						Covid-19 Vaccines or Infections: Which Carries the Stronger Immunity?
					

Evidence that Covid-19 infections provide as much protection as vaccines is prompting some experts to suggest a nuanced approach to vaccine mandates.




					www.wsj.com
				




Covid-19 Vaccines or Infections: Which Carries the Stronger Immunity?​Evidence grows that infections provide as much protection as vaccines, prompting some experts to suggest a nuanced approach to vaccine mandates​By
Nov. 27, 2021 5:30 am ET





Evidence is building that immunity from Covid-19 infection is at least as strong as that from vaccination. Scientists are divided on the implications for vaccine policy.

*The role of immunity from infection, which scientists have been trying to figure out since the outset of the pandemic, has gained fresh significance* amid the controversy over vaccine mandates.

Vaccines typically give rise to a stronger antibody response than infection, which might make them better at fending off the virus in the short term. Infection triggers a response that evolves over time, possibly making it more robust in the long term. A combination of both types appears to be stronger than either alone. But the jury is out on whether one form is stronger than the other, and whether their relative strength even matters for vaccine policy.

The comparison is further complicated by the emergence of new variants, such as that identified this month in southern Africa, which may be more contagious _*and be better at evading vaccines.*_

One thing is clear: _Vaccination is a far safer, more reliable strategy for acquiring immunity, given the risks of serious illness or death from infection._ But viewpoints splinter about whether people who have had Covid-19 before need a full course of vaccination, and whether documented prior infection should count as proof of immunity—as is the case in some other countries, including much of Europe.

Immunity from infection hasn’t been studied as extensively as vaccine-mediated immunity. But over the course of the pandemic, clues have emerged to suggest the two are at least equivalent. . .


----------



## tiredretired

Omicron Variant?  Call it what it really is people, the Mid Term Election Variant or MEV for short.


----------



## Doc

MrLovable said:


> Omicron Variant?  Call it what it really is people, the Mid Term Election Variant or MEV for short.


No doubt it will be used in the mid terms to their advantage as best they can but other countries are also taking action.  Israel is not allowing visitors from anywhere in the world.   Nothing to do with our mid terms.


----------



## Melensdad

Doc said:


> No doubt it will be used in the mid terms to their advantage as best they can but other countries are also taking action.  Israel is not allowing visitors from anywhere in the world.   Nothing to do with our mid terms.


Agreed.

Certainly our authoritarian leaning politicians will do their best to capitalized on this new variant to take more of our rights, but clearly many in the US are fed up with that BS and will push back.  I'd suspect that RED states will remain as open as possible and BLUE states will lock down, have high unemployment and the disease will flow through both types of states.

The disease is real.

The threat from the leftists is also real, but the reality is that the disease is real and a for those with risk factors it is a serious threat to their health.

The freedom loving Americans in free states will assert their power.  The sheep in blue states will whine and wring their hands.


----------



## pirate_girl

Melensdad said:


> Agreed.
> 
> Certainly our authoritarian leaning politicians will do their best to capitalized on this new variant to take more of our rights, but clearly many in the US are fed up with that BS and will push back.  I'd suspect that RED states will remain as open as possible and BLUE states will lock down, have high unemployment and the disease will flow through both types of states.
> 
> The disease is real.
> 
> The threat from the leftists is also real, but the reality is that the disease is real and a for those with risk factors it is a serious threat to their health.
> 
> The freedom loving Americans in free states will assert their power.  The sheep in blue states will whine and wring their hands.


That!! ^^^^
Well said, Bob.


----------



## tiredretired

Omicron ?? Hell, why not Unicorn, or Cornpop ?? Anyone else notice how they skipped over the next letter in the Greek alphabet, xi, to get to Omicron.  Can't use xi now can we?  Nope, sure as hell can't.  

First off, these assholes created this virus. Then they created the pandemic. Then they took full control thinking they could take care of it. And ever since it’s been nothing but bullshit upon bullshit, and pretty much one failure after another !

Yes, we can all agree that sars-cov2 is a real  virus. BY DESIGN ! But it’s still a virus. And a virus is gonna be virus. Sars-cov1 was cleaned off the face of the planet within 2 years ! Completely gone ! Only globally around 8000 cases and 800 deaths ? No lock downs, no masks, no vaccines, nowhere near the vast oceans of bullsit we’ve all seen with COVID-19. AND WHY ?!?!?!  What happened ??

Here’s the difference and how to end this insanity !

1. SARS-cov1 was NOT a stealth virus. Only the symptomatic were contagious. So as soon as anyone showed illness they got quarantined, treatment, and they either recovered or died. BUT THEY DIDN’T KEEP SPREADING THE DAMN VIRUS ALL OVER CREATION !!

2. SARS-cov2 on the other hand is a stealth virus. You can get it and transmit it whether your sick or not, or vaccinated or not. Hell, we gladly flew this thing all over the world to every country and passed it on to everyone like a top hit on Facebook or Twitter. And things only got worse from there! If not by design, then by politicizing it, and stupidity, and insanity. An on going string of disasters.

Here, get jabbed and go spread it even more! Here’s your virus passport ! Folks, this is shear madness. It’s been the insane leading the fucking insane. Instead of paying people a grand a week to sit home on their ass and drop out of the workforce, it would make more sense to use that money to pay people to stay home if they test positive and it is confirmed by a health care pro. 

3. The vaccines aren’t real vaccines. They’re just immunity boosters. You’ll need them regularly. Ok I guess as a temporary stop gap. Living in a covid world. But the only way we might ever get this bug under control is the same way we did with sars-cov1. We’re all gonna need personal/home test kits and use them like pregnancy test kits. Except in this case unprotected sex may be as easy as breathing in another person’s exhaust. Vaccinated or not, that’s right, test, test, test.  And if you test positive, then you gotta quarantine and get treatment. Don’t pass it on ! Otherwise all this bullshit ain’t ever gonna get better or stop. Just get continually worse.

The so called Great Reset is a global thing not just the USA.  The problem the globalists have right now is us, the USA.  We are the ones who fight back.  We are the ones who have the all the guns.  Hell, as a nation we are all better armed than any army in the world, including ours.  This is not lost on the globalists. This has all been designed to take down the USA. We are the ones standing in their way.  Anyone remember when Trump said I am the one standing between you and them.  Who was them, huh?  Trump got all this, Trump understood all this.  That is why he had to go by any means shy of assassination.  The last they wanted was to create a martyr.   Wake up people, you are being played for fools.  Fight back, resist or you will die.  Trump knows this.  DeSantis knows this.  Do you?


----------



## pirate_girl

Unusual, but mild.









						Report: South African Doctor Who First Noticed Omicron Says Symptoms 'Unusual but Mild'
					

The South African doctor who first noticed the Omicron COVID variant says she cannot understand why the world is pushing the panic button.




					www.westernjournal.com
				




Dr. Angelique Coetzee said that the unusual infections she was seeing in her private practice in Pretoria earlier this month presented “unusual but mild” symptoms, according to the Telegraph.

Coetzee, chair of the South African Medical Association, said it was “premature” to say the virus was going to mushroom into a global health crisis, according to the Guardian. On Friday, the World Health Association dubbed the Omicron variant a variant of concern. President Joe Biden then slapped travel restrictions on multiple African countries.

“It’s all speculation at this stage. It may be it’s highly transmissible, but so far the cases we are seeing are extremely mild,” she said.


----------



## Melensdad

yes, it seems like the panic is unwarranted


----------



## mla2ofus

The dem byword: "never let a crisis go to waste"!!


----------



## FrancSevin

Melensdad said:


> yes, it seems like the panic is unwarranted


But normal. Panic is always useful to those crafty enough to take advantage over those lemming souls too dumb to think for themselves.

Much less brave enough to stand up for themselves.


----------



## Melensdad

Moderna's CEO reiterated that the current vaccines will not be effective against Omicron ... but there is more.





__





						Risk Cracks After Moderna CEO Comments Spark Global Stock Rout | ZeroHedge
					

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero




					www.zerohedge.com
				




FULL story at the link above but the juicy parts are below:

Risk Cracks After Moderna CEO Comments Spark Global Stock Rout​Ask a drug dealer if methadone helps cure a cocaine addition and - _shockingly _- you will hear that the answer is "hell no", after all an affirmative response would mean the fixer needs to get a real job. Just as shocking was the "admission" of Moderna CEO, Stéphane Bancel, who in the latest stop on his media whirlwind tour of the past 48 hours gave the FT an interview in which he predicted that existing vaccines will be much less effective at tackling Omicron than earlier strains of coronavirus and warned it would take months before pharmaceutical companies could manufacture new variant-specific jabs at scale.

“There is no world, I think, where [the effectiveness] is the same level . . . we had with [the] Delta [variant],” Bancel told the Financial Times, claiming that the high number of Omicron mutations on the spike protein, which the virus uses to infect human cells, and the rapid spread of the variant in South Africa suggested that the current crop of vaccines may need to be modified next year. Here, the self-serving CEO whose sell-mode was fully engaged - after all what else would the maker of a vaccine for covid say than "yes, the world will need more of my product" - completely ignored the earlier comments from Barry Schoub, chairman of South Afruca's Ministerial Advisory Committee on Vaccines, who over the weekend said that *the large number of mutations found in the omicron variant appears to destabilize the virus, *which might make it less “fit” than the dominant delta strain. As such,* it would be a far less virulent strain...* but of course that would also reduce the need for Moderna's mRNA therapy and so Bancel failed to mention it.


----------



## Melensdad

News from Israel is showing early signs that people are reasonable well protected from the new mutation with vaccines.  Data is still early.  Remember that Israel is one of the most heavily vaccinated nations on Earth and began booster shots for their citizens before any other nation.  What happens in Israel is a good indicator for what will happen in other nations.

Below is just a portion of the article. Follow the link for the full article.









						COVID: First signs that vaccines protect against Omicron
					

So far, Israel has registered four cases infected with the new variant, while general morbidity remains low.




					www.jpost.com
				




There are indications that individuals fully vaccinated against corona within six months or with the booster are also protected against the Omicron variant, Health Minister Nitzan Horowitz said on Tuesday, after another two cases were identified, bringing the total to four.​​*“In the coming days we will have more accurate information about the efficacy of the vaccine against Omicron, but there is already room for optimism*, and there are initial indications that those who are vaccinated with a vaccine still valid or with a booster will also be protected from this variant,” Horowitz said while visiting the Soroka Medical Center in Beersheba with Finance Minister Avigdor Liberman.​ . . .​Later in the evening, a report by Channel 12 said *the Pfizer vaccine is just slightly less effective in preventing infection with Omicron than with Delta* – 90% as opposed to 95% – while it is as effective – around 93% – in preventing serious symptoms at least for those vaccinated with a booster.​​According to the report, the ability of the variant to infect is higher than Delta but not as much as feared – around 1.3 times higher. . . ​


----------



## Ironman

NAPERVILLE, Ill. - An Illinois family whose loved one was "desperately ill" and hospitalized earlier this month with COVID-19 says he's now home and doing well after a judge had to order a Naperville hospital to treat him with Ivermectin.

On Nov. 8, the family won a legal battle to gain approval to administer the controversial drug to 71-year-old Sun Ng, who had been on a ventilator since October 19.

Sun Ng came to the Chicago area from Hong Kong to visit his daughter and her family. He contracted COVID and within days was on a ventilator at Edward Hospital in Naperville.

His daughter, Dr. Man Kwan Ng, was desperate. She wanted the hospital to try Ivermectin, but they refused based on various national medical guidelines, which suggest the drug is ineffective.

"Mr. Ng is as good as dead in the picture, which was taken on November 4. And at that point the hospital still wouldn't give the Ivermectin," said family attorney Kirstin Erickson.

A DuPage County judge ruled in the family's favor ordering the hospital to allow Dr. Alan Bain to administer the drug. But the hospital initially refused because Dr. Bain is not vaccinated.

After further legal wrangling and the doctor presenting a negative COVID test, the treatment — a series of 15 daily shots — began in the evening of Nov. 8.

The Ng's attorney claimed Sun showed signs of improvement almost immediately.

"And today he passed a breathing test that he hadn't been able to pass in the last three weeks. And he looked more alert and aware. So I would say that the first dose of Ivermectin is actually working and is effective," Erickson said.

Ivermectin was given to Sun Ng from Nov. 8 through Nov. 12, the family said. He was then released from the hospital on Nov. 27.

Sun Ng's family says he's now at home, having fully recovered.

"My father’s recovery is amazing," Dr. Man Kwan Ng said in a statement. "My father is a tough man. He was working so hard to survive, and of course, with God’s holding hands. He weaned off oxygen about three days after moving out of the ICU. He started oral feeding before hospital discharge. He returned home without carrying a bottle of oxygen and a feeding tube installed to his stomach. He can now stand with a walker at the bedside and practice stepping. After being sedated for a month on a ventilator in ICU, his performance is beyond our expectations. Praise the Lord."

FOX 32 had reached out to the hospital before this latest update and they initially said they could not comment due to "patient privacy guidelines."









						Illinois family credits Ivermectin with saving life of father hospitalized with COVID-19
					

An Illinois family whose loved one was "desperately ill" and hospitalized earlier this month with COVID-19 says he's now home and doing well after a judge had to order a Naperville hospital to treat him with Ivermectin.




					www.fox32chicago.com


----------



## m1west

Same thing happened to me, except I didn't have to be hospitalized. When I got Covid in August I asked my Kaiser Dr. for it and he refused, stating it was unproven. I said so is the vaccine and you are pushing that, and Ivermectin as well as Hydroxiechloriquin have been around for a long time with a good track record on other deceases, it would just be off label use. He refused. We got in a heated argument with some fuck you's thrown in and he hung up me. After the first of the year plan to find a private practice Dr. Corporate doctors are not your friend.


----------



## FrancSevin

m1west said:


> Same thing happened to me, except I didn't have to be hospitalized. When I got Covid in August I asked my Kaiser Dr. for it and he refused, stating it was unproven. I said so is the vaccine and you are pushing that, and Ivermectin as well as Hydroxiechloriquin have been around for a long time with a good track record on other deceases, it would just be off label use. He refused. We got in a heated argument with some fuck you's thrown in and he hung up me. After the first of the year plan to find a private practice Dr. Corporate doctors are not your friend.


Many doctors, including mine, were forced out of private practice into the institutionalized version most Americans must now endure. Unfortunately, Obamacare made this happen.


----------



## pirate_girl

Very long, but worth reading.









						Judge Finds It 'Puzzling' That Biden Admin Didn't Consider 'Natural Immunity' for Healthcare Workers; Blocks Mandates to Protect 'Liberty Interests of the Unvaccinated'
					

Citing the "liberty interests of the unvaccinated," a federal judge in the Western District of Louisiana issued a nationwide order Tuesday against efforts by the administration of President Joe Biden to require health care workers nationwide to receive a vaccine against the novel coronavirus.




					lawandcrime.com


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Melensdad said:


> News from Israel is showing early signs that people are reasonable well protected from the new mutation with vaccines. Data is still early. Remember that Israel is one of the most heavily vaccinated nations on Earth and began booster shots for their citizens before any other nation. What happens in Israel is a good indicator for what will happen in other nations.


Yes, but Israel also seems to have the worst outcomes against all the variants.  Compare Israel to Florida and the statistics indicate Florida is on the right path and Israel is not.


----------



## m1west

WHO and CDC both say Omnicron has caused zero reported deaths.


----------



## BlackpillRevolution

The sky is falling!  Fear mongering so that corporations can make money.


----------



## Ceee

m1west said:


> WHO and CDC both say Omnicron has caused zero reported deaths.


From what I understand, and I could be totally wrong, when a person is tested for covid and gets a positive, the medical professionals don't even try to determine what variant it is because it's costly, and they're going to treat both variants the very same way anyway.  That's just US info.

I tend to agree with that approach.  Why waste the money trying to identify the variant if they're going to treat it in the very same way.


----------



## Melensdad

Ceee said:


> From what I understand, and I could be totally wrong, when a person is tested for covid and gets a positive, *the medical professionals don't even try to determine what variant it is* because it's costly, and they're going to treat both variants the very same way anyway.  That's just US info.
> 
> I tend to agree with that approach.  Why waste the money trying to identify the variant if they're going to treat it in the very same way.


This varies from nation to nation and even from state to state.  

But yes, all variants are currently treated the same so from the treatment standpoint it does not matter which variant one gets.  As the medical community learns more and begins to understand better how to treat it this may change over time, but as it is getting milder it may become moot too.


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> WHO and CDC both say Omnicron has caused zero reported deaths.


And now we have new data.

Omicron is now officially _(according to the NHS in England/UK)_ responsible for 1 death, and they are expecting many more.

We also don't yet know if NATURAL IMMUNITY or VACCINES will be very effective against Omicron.  Omicron is a very different type of mutation.  Understand that most of the recent data we have is still providing information about effectiveness against DELTA variant.  But OMICRON has a very different type of structure.  It does appear to be somewhat milder, which is great news.  

It would be silly to assume it is harmless.

There seems to be some early evidence that the more recently vaccinated or more recently someone got a booster them lower the chances of COMPLICATIONS from Omicron.  I know of 2 local hospitals with Covid patients and currently 100% of the admitted cases in both hospitals are UNvaccinted people. Vaccinated people are getting sick with Omicron but generally are less sick and generally fewer of them get admitted.

Data, which has been duplicated in a peer review study group shows that RECOVERED people who got vaccinated are the best protected.  Those who recovered and were unvaccinated show a high degree of immunity.  Those who got the Pfizer shot had far less, but that is highly dependent upon HOW LONG AGO they were vaccinated.  The unvaccinated have zero protection.


----------



## m1west

Ceee said:


> From what I understand, and I could be totally wrong, when a person is tested for covid and gets a positive, the medical professionals don't even try to determine what variant it is because it's costly, and they're going to treat both variants the very same way anyway.  That's just US info.
> 
> I tend to agree with that approach.  Why waste the money trying to identify the variant if they're going to treat it in the very same way.


When we got it and the wife and son got tested, they identified it as Delta.


----------



## pirate_girl

Yes, the flu is kinda going around now.
The flu.
The sniffles, sneezes, temps etc..
Just like it does every year.
Covid is going to fizzle out and become a thing of the past, along with all the variants.
Fauci is going to not have anything else to talk about in 2022.
The world will be back to normal.
That's just my prediction.


----------



## mla2ofus

pirate_girl said:


> Yes, the flu is kinda going around now.
> The flu.
> The sniffles, sneezes, temps etc..
> Just like it does every year.
> Covid is going to fizzle out and become a thing of the past, along with all the variants.
> Fauci is going to not have anything else to talk about in 2022.
> The world will be back to normal.
> That's just my prediction.


  Hate to say it, PG, but the politicians and media will stretch this out as long as possible.


----------



## pirate_girl

mla2ofus said:


> Hate to say it, PG, but the politicians and media will stretch this out as long as possible.


Well of course they will.


----------



## Melensdad

pirate_girl said:


> Yes, the flu is kinda going around now.
> The flu.
> The sniffles, sneezes, temps etc..
> Just like it does every year.
> Covid is going to fizzle out and become a thing of the past, along with all the variants.
> Fauci is going to not have anything else to talk about in 2022.
> The world will be back to normal.
> That's just my prediction.


When this whole thing started I told my wife I thought it would be a 3 to 6 month event.  I was wrong, its dragged out longer.  But I believe you are correct, it will fizzle out.  And it's certainly possible that Omicron is the big fizzle, or close to the big fizzle.  All viruses eventually mutate to the point that they are just an inconvenience.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Canadian province stops giving boosters to elders who have had COVID in the past due to severe, life-threatening side effects
					

News for all




					westphaliantimes.com
				




Related but in French:








						Une  troisième dose de trop pour les aînés ayant eu la COVID-19
					

Le Comité sur l’immunisation du Québec change d’avis après que des effets secondaires ont été rapportés.




					www.ledevoir.com


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

pirate_girl said:


> Yes, the flu is kinda going around now.
> The flu.
> The sniffles, sneezes, temps etc..
> Just like it does every year.
> Covid is going to fizzle out and become a thing of the past, along with all the variants.
> Fauci is going to not have anything else to talk about in 2022.
> The world will be back to normal.
> That's just my prediction.


I've read a few stories and studies that corroborate this.  









						Like a virgin...untouched forever! | Voice for Science and Solidarity
					

This is a positive message from G. Vanden Bossche (can you imagine?!) to all those who were jabbed but now want their innate immune sys...




					www.voiceforscienceandsolidarity.org


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

More discussion on Vitamin D and a few other supplements, pay notice to the recommended dosages and don't take more than you need:


----------



## Melensdad

Study indicates that Pfizer's new anti-covid pill may reduce hospitalizations by 90%.  Early indications are that it is also effective at treating Omicron variant.

Full story is at Just The News --> https://justthenews.com/politics-po...vid-19-pill-prevents-severe-illness-effective

Pfizer says antiviral COVID-19 pill effective against severe illness, omicron variant​Pfizer announced Tuesday that a final analysis of its experimental COVID-19 antiviral pill sharply reduced hospitalizations and deaths among people at high risk of severe illness from the virus.​​The final study reinforces an earlier analysis from November, according to The Washington Post.​​Pfizer’s Paxlovid pill cut hospitalizations and deaths by nearly 90% when taken within three or five days of the onset of symptoms, the company announced. Preliminary laboratory studies also suggest *the pill is effective against COVID’S omicron variant*, the Post also reports.​


----------



## Melensdad

Just some simple math.

While indications are that Omicron is milder than other variants, we should look at some numbers.

Omicron is doubling in cases every few days.  It appears to be *at least* twice as transmissible as Delta.  Currently the USA claims Omicron makes up 3% of our cases.  That means that by Friday it will probably be 6% then it will be 12% of the US caseload by next week.

The CURRENT hospitalization rate for covid 19 is 4.6%.  That skews heavily with age.  People under 50% currently have a 2.5% chance of hospitalization from Covid.  But in the 50-64 year old age bracket the rate goes up to 7.4%.  65 to 74 year olds and the rate tops 12%.

There is some data suggesting that Omicron is 22 to 27% less dangerous (roughly 25%).  But we have to keep in mind it spreads much faster.  And that is what the hospitals are worried about.

Currently we are hovering about 200,000 new cases per day.  That is fairly steady.  That means approximately 9200 people per day enter the hospital for covid based on a 4.6% rate.

*If we reduce the 4.6% rate by 25%, because Omicron is apparently less serious, we end up with a hospitalization rate of 3.5%.  But we know that the transmission rate is at least double Delta.  So while the hospitalization rate may drop 25%, the numbers going into the hospital may rise.  At double the number of infections we would see 400,000 cases per day, which would take the number of new people hospitalized daily from 9,200 up to 14,000 hospitalizations per day. *

So use your own math, but keep all this in perspective.  Less serious => but more infectious => so more hospitalizations => more deaths.

Most people get Covid and get over it in a week with minimal fuss.
Some people suffer for a week, two or three in serious pain.
A few end up fighting for their lives, and some of those don't make it.


----------



## Ceee

Melensdad said:


> Study indicates that Pfizer's new anti-covid pill may reduce hospitalizations by 90%. Early indications are that it is also effective at treating Omicron variant.


Little confused here.  Is the covid pill supposed to be taken instead of the first two vaccines, or is it also a substitute for the booster?


----------



## Melensdad

Ceee said:


> Little confused here.  Is the covid pill supposed to be taken instead of the first two vaccines, or is it also a substitute for the booster?


it is a treatment, largely aimed at those who are unvaccinated


----------



## Melensdad

UK data shows Omicron cases doubling every 2.4 days.  8x more infectious than Delta.  200,000 new cases per day currently in the UK.  Hospitalizations are a lagging indicator, we should have a clearer picture of how mild/serious this variant is in 2-3 weeks.  UK is expecting 1,000,000 new cases per day.  34,000 hospital admittances per day???  

US population is greater than UK so we have to scale up the numbers.


----------



## Ironman

According to the CDC, these are the most common symptoms of the Omicron variant of COVID-19:

Cough

Fatigue

Congestion

Runny nose.

So just like a cold then? I had that last year…








						Omicron variant: The most commonly reported symptoms so far, according to the CDC
					

The CDC recently released its first briefing on the characteristics of the early cases of the Omicron variant in the U.S.




					www.nj.com


----------



## Melensdad

Interesting story from The Hill, reporting on a study from some Hong Kong researchers.  

Omicron variant apparently spreads 70x faster than previous variants but is less severe.  This is just the beginning of the story, for the full story visit the link










						Omicron infects 70 times faster than previous COVID strains: study
					

A new study says that while the COVID-19 omicron variant infects the human body 70 times faster than previous coronavirus strains, the infections appear to be less severe.




					thehill.com
				



​Omicon infects 70 times faster than previous COVID strains: study​BY MYCHAEL SCHNELL - 12/16/21 08:02 AM EST 1,113​​A new study says that while the COVID-19 omicron variant infects the human body 70 times faster than previous coronavirus strains, the infections appear to be less severe.​​Researchers from the University of Hong Kong’s LKS Faculty of Medicine found that *after 24 hours of infection, the omicron variant multiplied in the human bronchus 70 times faster than the delta variant* and original coronavirus strain.​​They also discovered that *omicron infection in the lungs was “significantly lower” *than the initial COVID-19 strain, “which may be an indicator of lower disease severity,” according to a statement from the university.​​The strain replicated in human lung tissue at a rate that was more than 10 times lower than the original COVID-19 strain, which suggests that it may cause less-severe illness.​​The research, however, is still under peer review for publication . . . ​


----------



## Ironman

Blood clots ain’t no fun. I had a massive pulmonary embolism a few years ago. Oxygen was in the 60’s.


Nine deaths, 54 cases of people with the problem, have been confirmed in connection with the vaccine.





__





						Loading…
					





					www.washingtonpost.com


----------



## Melensdad

Ironman said:


> Blood clots ain’t no fun. I had a massive pulmonary embolism a few years ago. Oxygen was in the 60’s.
> 
> 
> Nine deaths, 54 cases of people with the problem, have been confirmed in connection with the vaccine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loading…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.washingtonpost.com


Fortunately very few people got that particular vaccine.


----------



## Melensdad

I'm waiting for data out of Israel and the UK, but if they experience something similar to South Africa then it could be that Omicron is the last fizzle of Covid.

There is more to the article but here is the meat of the story:





__





						South African Hospitalization Rates Plunge Despite Omicron Onslaught | ZeroHedge
					

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero




					www.zerohedge.com
				





South African Hospitalization Rates Plunge Despite Omicron Onslaught​Over the past few weeks, the omicron variant has exploded out of southern Africa _(the first case was identified in Botswana)_ and spread across most of the globe. And yet, despite all the kvetching about the variant being on track to succeed the delta variant as the world's dominant strain...​​

​​_Source: NYT_​​...South Africa delivered some positive news Friday *when it reported a much lower rate of hospital admissions amid signs that the wave of infections may be peaking*, according to Bloomberg.​​*Only 1.7% of identified COVID cases were admitted to the hospital in the second week of infections in the fourth wave,* according to local data.​​*That's compared with 19% in the same week of the third delta-driven wave,*South African Health Minister Joe Phaahla said at a press conference.​​This is all evidence that the strain may be milder, and that infections may already be peaking in the country’s most populous province, Gauteng.​​Still, new cases in that week of the current wave were more than 20K a day, compared with 4.4K in the same week of the third wave. That’s further evidence of omicron’s rapid transmissibility, which a number of other countries, such as the UK are also now experiencing.​​As for where that evidence might come from, South Africa, which announced the discovery of the variant on Nov. 25, is being watched as a canary in the coal mine.​
*There are a few key differentiators that make South Africa different from other countries: *The country’s population is young compared with developed nations. What's more, between 70% and 80% of citizens may also have had a prior COVID infection, according to antibody surveys, meaning they could have some level of protection. ;


----------



## Ironman

Pocahontas got the Rona. 
.


----------



## BlackpillRevolution

Ironman said:


> According to the CDC, these are the most common symptoms of the Omicron variant of COVID-19:
> 
> Cough
> 
> Fatigue
> 
> Congestion
> 
> Runny nose.
> 
> So just like a cold then? I had that last year…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Omicron variant: The most commonly reported symptoms so far, according to the CDC
> 
> 
> The CDC recently released its first briefing on the characteristics of the early cases of the Omicron variant in the U.S.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nj.com


People with allergies and asthma has those symptoms.  Damn I had covid 19 for YEARS!!!! lol


----------



## Melensdad

BlackpillRevolution said:


> People with allergies and asthma has those symptoms.  Damn I had covid 19 for YEARS!!!! lol


So do people with cancer.

Are you suggesting you've had cancer for 19 years too?


----------



## BlackpillRevolution

Melensdad said:


> So do people with cancer.
> 
> Are you suggesting you've had cancer for 19 years too?


I was joking, covid 19 was never isolated.  To prove something exist you need to provide evidence!


----------



## Melensdad

BlackpillRevolution said:


> I was joking, covid 19 was never isolated.  To prove something exist you need to provide evidence!


It is a pandemic, so the opposite of isolated.

We try to discuss current scientific/medical information in this thread.


----------



## BlackpillRevolution

Melensdad said:


> It is a pandemic, so the opposite of isolated.
> 
> We try to discuss current scientific/medical information in this thread.


----------



## Melensdad

BlackpillRevolution said:


>


So you post something that is 1 year old in a topic that discusses current information.  Ok.  Thanks.


----------



## Ceee

I understand that Biden is getting ready to send out (mail?) a ton of free home test kits for covid.  From what I saw on tv this morning, it looks like you just run around q-tip looking swabs in each of your nostrils and then put the swabs in a small pouch.  If any of you have used a home test, what happens then?  I was thinking it would be like a pregnancy test where something turns a color to show positive/negative.  I guess not though.

I'm not feeling sick right now, but I would like to have one of those home test kits just in case.  I also wonder how Biden will choose who gets the home test kits.


----------



## pirate_girl

These are the ones we use.
Simple to do.
Open the little card, 6 drops of solution in the top hole.
Swab each nostril,insert swab into bottom hole- twirl it around a little, then remove the side adhesive strip, seal shut and wait.
Takes 15 minutes it says, but not really.
2 solid pink lines means you are positive.
1 pink line, no.


----------



## Ceee

pirate_girl said:


> These are the ones we use.
> Simple to do.
> Open the little card, 6 drops of solution in the top hole.
> Swab each nostril,insert swab into bottom hole- twirl it around a little, then remove the side adhesive strip, seal shut and wait.
> Takes 15 minutes it says, but not really.
> 2 solid pink lines means you are positive.
> 1 pink line, no.
> 
> View attachment 142530


Thanks!  That looks easy enough.


----------



## pirate_girl

Ceee said:


> Thanks!  That looks easy enough.


They are.
I've used them probably a gazillion times in the last two years.


----------



## Melensdad

Omicron DEATHS appear to be lower based on South African data.  UK data, over the next weeks, should confirm this.

Omicron is now 96% of all cases in South Africa.  Cases have spiked upward, but deaths are not climbing proportionally.   Omicron is now 71% of all cases in the UK.  Omicron is now over 60% of all cases in Australia.  Omicron is likely approaching the of cases in the USA, but that is not confirmed.  All that said, cases in the hospitals in these countries are still DELTA variant cases.  We won't actually see hospitalizations ramp up, if they do, for the next 1 to 4 weeks, depending upon the country.  Death rates will then be another trailing indicator, and we will see that data in 2 to 6 weeks.

Very possible that the Covid pandemic may be starting to fizzle.

We will see a lot of cases.  Lots of people will get sick.  This is spreading so fast that it is going to be nearly impossible to avoid catching Omicron.  However, it also appears, from initial data, Omicron may be LESS dangerous, LESS severe, LESS fatal but far MORE contagious.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------


While the above is probably all good news, we also know that some of the treatments we had been using are less effective. Drugs like Ivermectin may have minimal effect.  Monoclonal antibody treatments may have dramatically reduced effect.  There are some new drugs.  So for those who need it, a new pill from Pfizer may be an answer.  Others are coming.

And excerpt from an article in The Guardian:








						This anti-Covid pill changes everything. So why won’t it be available for all? | Eric Topol
					

Paxlovid is expected to work well against Omicron. The real problem is that production is insufficient




					www.theguardian.com
				




_But now we are confronting Omicron, which has achieved extensive immune escape from our vaccines, lowering the effectiveness, even with a booster, to 75% instead of 95%, with the Pfizer shot, against symptomatic infection. That will result in five times as many breakthrough infections compared with prior variants, which is the pattern we are now seeing._
_
Further evidence of Omicron’s immune evading feature is that *most of the monoclonal antibodies are no longer effective*, since the hypermutated variant does not look enough like the earlier versions of the virus to the antibody response that we mount. *That also explains the high rate of reinfections among people with prior Covid*, ranging three- to eightfold in South Africa and United Kingdom reports. These were unusual before Omicron and tell us that infection-induced immunity alone is not adequately protective.
_
_But it’s not just the immune escape property of Omicron that is the problem. It is the profound rapid growth of cases, doubling in two to three days, in many countries throughout Europe, southern Africa, North America and soon enough throughout the world. There is a definite sense that the cases are less severe than prior variants, but the extent of this and a full explanation for it is unknown. It could be the immunity walls that have been built from prior vaccination and infections, and possibly less virulence of the virus per se._


----------



## BlackpillRevolution

All this fear mongering I don't take it seriously.   If i can sue the media I would.


----------



## Melensdad

US Army doctors at Walter Reed Medical Center have announced they have a new vaccine that will defeat virtually all covid variants, including the new omicron.  Phase 1 trials are completed.  Additional trials are underway.





__





						US Army Developing World's First "Universal" COVID Vaccine As Original Jabs Await Final Approval | ZeroHedge
					

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero




					www.zerohedge.com
				





 - - - - - - - - - ( * ) - - - - - - - - - 

Meanwhile Omicron seems to lead to lower hosptialization rates, which was noted earlier but which facts seem to be proving.  Unfortunately those who do get hospitalized tend to be as sick and in prior variants.  Still good news, as it appears that fewer will get sick in the first place.


----------



## Ceee

Pfizer’s Covid-19 Pill Is Authorized in U.S.
					

The Paxlovid pill is the first Covid-19 drug cleared in the U.S. that newly infected patients can now take at home to stay out of the hospital.




					www.wsj.com
				




"It is the first authorization of a drug that newly infected people can easily take at home to stay out of the hospital"
"Pfizer expects to ship tens of thousands of treatment courses in the U.S. before the end of this year."


----------



## FrancSevin

Melensdad said:


> US Army doctors at Walter Reed Medical Center have announced they have a new vaccine that will defeat virtually all covid variants, including the new omicron.  Phase 1 trials are completed.  Additional trials are underway.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US Army Developing World's First "Universal" COVID Vaccine As Original Jabs Await Final Approval | ZeroHedge
> 
> 
> ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.zerohedge.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - - - - - - - - - ( * ) - - - - - - - - -
> 
> Meanwhile Omicron seems to lead to lower hosptialization rates, which was noted earlier but which facts seem to be proving.  Unfortunately those who do get hospitalized tend to be as sick and in prior variants.  Still good news, as it appears that fewer will get sick in the first place.


If it is a true "vaccine" of which the Army doctors have developed, I would have interest.

Otherwise, it is useless news.


----------



## Melensdad

From the LA Times, and widely sourced by other media. 

So much unknown about Omicron variant, but what we do know does not seem to be too bad.  In fact it might be good, good enough to end this mess.  Yes, people will die, more of them.  But apparently at lower rates. 

Follow the link for more updates:  https://www.latimes.com/science/sto...micron-variant-that-makes-it-spread-so-easily


What makes the Omicron variant spread so easily?​By Jon Healey, 
Ada Tseng​Dec. 23, 2021 5 AM PT
​
The Omicron variant arrived in the United States right around Thanksgiving. Less than a month later, it’s the country’s dominant coronavirus strain, accounting for 73% of new infections last week, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. ​​How did that happen? Infectious disease experts say there are two key factors that determine how quickly a virus will spread: how easily it is transmitted and how well it eludes the body’s defenses.​​Early research suggests Omicron has advantages in both areas. But the data also suggest the variant’s higher rate of transmission hasn’t led to more hospitalizations or deaths. ​​Preliminary results from a Dec. 14 study led by Alejandro B. Balazs of the Ragon Institute in Cambridge, Mass., found that Omicron was twice as infectious as the Delta variant and four times more infectious than the original virus. That study, which has yet to be peer-reviewed, relied on a relatively small sample of 239 patients in and around Boston, so the results may not be representative of Omicron’s behavior in general. ​​Nevertheless, said Dr. David Pride, an infectious disease specialist at UC San Diego, *“just looking at [the current situation] epidemiologically, we know something is way different this time around.”*​​With so many unvaccinated people out there, he added, “it was just a matter of time before we’d see a mutated version of the virus that is just better at infecting vaccinated people.” ​​It’s practically an evolutionary imperative, said Jasmine Plummer, a research scientist at Cedars-Sinai Medical Center in Los Angeles who was part of the team that discovered the Epsilon variant of the virus last winter. ​​“Variants arise because of viruses trying to survive,” Plummer said. “All viruses evolve to evade their host. So we knew an Omicron was coming.”​​And here we are.​​Rapid replication​One secret of Omicron’s success appears to be its ability to replicate rapidly. Researchers from the University of Hong Kong reported that compared with Delta, Omicron *“infects and multiplies 70 times faster” in the bronchus, the main airways into the lungs. Its advantage over the original virus is even greater, they added. The difference was apparent a mere 24 hours after infection.*​​If that’s indeed the case, it means that people infected by the Omicron variant have a lot more virus in their throats waiting to be expelled into the air when they exhale — *and especially when they cough or sneeze. It also suggests that they may be infectious sooner, which also would speed the spread of the disease.*​​One potentially helpful sign from the Hong Kong research: Omicron moved more slowly from the throat into the lungs. In their experiments, the scientists found the new strain replicated in the lungs at less than one-tenth the rate of the original virus. That *“may suggest lower severity of disease,”* according to the university.​​Pride said Omicron is spreading more easily within households, suggesting the virus gets spewed into the air more easily. Another possibility is that a smaller amount of Omicron is required to cause an infection, he said. ​​There’s a lot we still don’t know about how the Omicron variant is transmitted, but the CDC expects that *“anyone with Omicron infection can spread the virus to others, even if they are vaccinated or don’t have symptoms.”*​​Pride put it another way: *“We know this disease spreads via people, thus the only way to be pretty sure you’re not going to get it is to not be around people.” *​​The spike protein​The coronavirus that causes COVID-19 employs a spike-shaped protein on its surface to penetrate healthy cells and use them to churn out copies of itself. The vaccines available in the United States prompt the creation of antibodies that recognize that spike protein and target it for destruction by the body’s immune system.​​Omicron has an unprecedented number of mutations that affect the spike. About three dozen were tallied by Balazs and his team, and their location suggests they make it more difficult for antibodies to recognize an Omicron virus particle. That’s true regardless of whether the antibodies were generated by a vaccine or a previous infection, they wrote.​​Researchers at the University of British Columbia in Canada examined the Omicron proteins affected by those mutations on a molecular level. They found that, on balance, the changes enabled the spike protein to bond more strongly to human cells than the original coronavirus could. They posted their findings on BioRXiv, a site where scientists seek feedback on preliminary work.​​Sriram Subramaniam, the senior author of the study, said in an interview with the university that even small changes in the spike protein “have potentially big implications for how the virus is transmitted, how our body fights it off, and the effectiveness of treatments.” ​​He added:* “Our experiments confirm what we’re seeing in the real world — that the Omicron spike protein is far better than other variants at ... evading the immunity produced by both vaccines and natural infection.”* ​​Subramaniam said it was notable that the immunity generated by vaccines was more effective against Omicron than the immunity from a previous infection in unvaccinated patients. It’s another sign “that vaccination remains our best defense against the Omicron variant,” he said.​​But that defense may not be very effective without a booster. ​​*Balazs’ study found that the protection afforded by vaccines or a previous coronavirus infection was “dramatically decreased” against Omicron.* The one exception was in people who’d recently received a booster dose of the vaccine; they “exhibited potent neutralization of Omicron,” according to the study.​​That may help to explain why “breakthrough” cases and reinfections appear to be rising rapidly. A South African research team reported on Dec. 2 more than 35,000COVID-19 reinfections among the 2.8 million people who’d tested positive over the previous three months.​


----------



## Melensdad

From everything I can tell, and not posting all the links.

1.  Vaccines do *not* work against Omicron variant of Covid
2.  Natural immunity does *not* work against Omicron variant of Covid
3.  Omicron variant is incredibly infectious and it is likely that *60%* of the US population will be infected with Omicron by March of this year.
4.  Hospitals will be stressed by Omicron simply because so many people will get the virus in very short order.
5.  Death* rates will drop* because Omicron appears to be less virulent but the sheer numbers of infected people will increase the absolute number of deaths.
6.  If you end up in the hospital with Omicron you have the same chances of death as if you went to the hospital with prior variants, BUT your odds of going into the hospital are lower.
7.  If projections follow the trends, we will see Omicron *peak in early January*, likely between Jan 8 and Jan12, and it will pretty much be fizzled out about 30 days later.
8.  President Trump initiated "operation warp speed" to get us life saving, but controversial vaccines that worked pretty well with minimal side effects for the earlier variants but President Biden yesterday told the states that there is no federal solution to Covid and the states must make their own way forward.


----------



## mla2ofus

Buiden said he'd beat the virus and now he passes the buck!! Typical democrat!!


----------



## Melensdad

I should offer 1 update to my list above:

There is 1 monoclonal antibody treatment that seems to be effective against Omicron.  

Aotrovimab, the only antibody treatment believed to be effective against the omicron variant, is in very short supply and some states have NONE available at all.


----------



## m1west

I have a hard time believing that the antibodies from a Delta variant infection would not offer any protection from Omicron.
Unless its not a variant of COVID 19 and is a new virus.


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> I have a hard time believing that the antibodies from a Delta variant infection would not offer any protection from Omicron.
> Unless its not a variant of COVID 19 and is a new virus.


If you look at the structure of the omicron variant you will see how different it is from delta.  It is not evolution from delta to omicron, but rather omicron evolved from a different variant.  Progressions of variants are not linear.  That is why, if you recall, the Kent variant evolved in England (a year ago) and the Delta variant evolved from India, while Omicron evolved from South Africa.


----------



## mla2ofus

m1west said:


> I have a hard time believing that the antibodies from a Delta variant infection would not offer any protection from Omicron.
> Unless its not a variant of COVID 19 and is a new virus.


  I don't believe anything the gov't says anymore!!


----------



## Ironman

The United States has a vaccination rate nearly four times that of South Africa.

.


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> If you look at the structure of the omicron variant you will see how different it is from delta.  It is not evolution from delta to omicron, but rather omicron evolved from a different variant.  Progressions of variants are not linear.  That is why, if you recall, the Kent variant evolved in England (a year ago) and the Delta variant evolved from India, while Omicron evolved from South Africa.


But both the vaccine and antibodies worked on all the other variants and they developed in the same way. But I have read that they can combine and defeat vaccines and antibodies. Everyone is lucky it mild. Hopefully this will be the end.


----------



## Doc

m1west said:


> But both the vaccine and antibodies worked on all the other variants and they developed in the same way. But I have read that they can combine and defeat vaccines and antibodies. Everyone is lucky it mild. Hopefully this will be the end.


I had a stress test last month.  The Doctor and I got to talking of Covid and the variants.   He had just flown back from FL and had to wear a mask on the flight.   He does believe masks help, but unclear one what degree of protection it offers.   He also said he believes  Covid and masks will be a way of life for all of us for years to come.   He does not see it going away. 

=====
If covid came from a lab.  Was it on purpose?   If on purpose, to reduce world population or to fuck the world, whose to say the variants are not also created in a lab and then released in South Africa, or India or the US?   How can we know the variants do not come from a lab?


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> But both the vaccine and antibodies worked on all the other variants and they developed in the same way. But I have read that they can combine and defeat vaccines and antibodies. Everyone is lucky it mild. Hopefully this will be the end.


All the other variants developed the way that all variants evolve, they adapt from their host and mutate some become dominant and some become recessive.  Omicron is believed to have been created in a HIV+ patient who caught covid.  So omicron is a variant of that individual and it adapted and evolved from that point.  Highly contagious but far more mild.  And it may well be the end, or at least the beginning of the end, of serious covid.


----------



## Melensdad

Doc said:


> I had a stress test last month.  The Doctor and I got to talking of Covid and the variants.   He had just flown back from FL and had to wear a mask on the flight.   He does believe masks help, but unclear one what degree of protection it offers...


I've had similar discussions with my doctors and all have been quite frank, when pushed.  Most masks are worthless, especially high on the list of worthless (_fashion accessories_) are all the various cloth masks. 

N95 masks offer a fairly high degree of protection for up to a few hours.  Surgical masks are good enough for short durations, 20 minutes or so, but not much longer than that.

If a mask does not fight tight to the face and seal well it is worthless.  N95 masks, properly fitted, seal tight all around the face by design.  Surgical masks are typically very loose and are actually just designed to keep the surgeon's spittle from entering a patient's wound, they do that job well, but don't protect well from any sort of virus.    

This virus is airborne and any loose fitting mask of any type won't work.


----------



## waybomb

To that point, a mask can not seal against facial hair. So all men should shave three times a day, at least.


----------



## BlackpillRevolution

m1west said:


> But both the vaccine and antibodies worked on all the other variants and they developed in the same way. But I have read that they can combine and defeat vaccines and antibodies. Everyone is lucky it mild. Hopefully this will be the end.


The spik


waybomb said:


> To that point, a mask can not seal against facial hair. So all men should shave three times a day, at least.


it is not suppose to seal, it suppose to prevent the vapour from going too far.  With the some mask there is some space, you can't have a perfect seal because then you can't breath.   Yeah in theory men should be shaving, but in practice it is pointless wearing a mask.


----------



## Melensdad

BlackpillRevolution said:


> it is not suppose to seal, it suppose to prevent the vapour from going too far.  With the some mask there is some space, you can't have a perfect seal because then you can't breath.   Yeah in theory men should be shaving, but in practice it is pointless wearing a mask.


Actually they are supposed to seal tightly around the perimeter.  

You breathe THROUGH the mask material.  Some like cotton or linen breath very easily; these types of masks also allow airflow around the sides since they don't seal.  Some like the paper surgical masks breath reasonably well, they also leak airflow around the top, bottom and sides and are not designed to seal around the face.  Vented N95 masks allow you to exhale easily but inhaling is fairly difficult especially while doing strenuous activities, they are designed to seal around their perimeter to your face.  And unvented N95 masks are fairly difficult to use for extended time periods but still allow you to breathe through the material, the medical versions of these are the safest commonly used masks available.  NIOSH certified N95 masks are a good second choice.

And yes, men with facial hair cannot get a seal around the mask.


----------



## BlackpillRevolution

Melensdad said:


> Actually they are supposed to seal tightly around the perimeter.
> 
> You breathe THROUGH the mask material.  Some like cotton or linen breath very easily; these types of masks also allow airflow around the sides since they don't seal.  Some like the paper surgical masks breath reasonably well, they also leak airflow around the top, bottom and sides and are not designed to seal around the face.  Vented N95 masks allow you to exhale easily but inhaling is fairly difficult especially while doing strenuous activities, they are designed to seal around their perimeter to your face.  And unvented N95 masks are fairly difficult to use for extended time periods but still allow you to breathe through the material, the medical versions of these are the safest commonly used masks available.  NIOSH certified N95 masks are a good second choice.
> 
> And yes, men with facial hair cannot get a seal around the mask.


It restricts the airflow though, the more you restrict the air flow the worse it is.









						The dangers of wearing a mask, a real oxygen level test in the same spot - banned youtube video
					

The oxygen levels drops significantly and this is a proven test. Less oxygen means less fuel to cells which means our whole system wont operate in the right parameters. Would we do the same thing to our car engine? No way. Try and put a mask filter …




					www.bitchute.com


----------



## Melensdad

BlackpillRevolution said:


> It restricts the airflow though, the more you restrict the air flow the worse it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The dangers of wearing a mask, a real oxygen level test in the same spot - banned youtube video
> 
> 
> The oxygen levels drops significantly and this is a proven test. Less oxygen means less fuel to cells which means our whole system wont operate in the right parameters. Would we do the same thing to our car engine? No way. Try and put a mask filter …
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bitchute.com


Not sure I understand your point.  Other than to agree with what I wrote.  Obviously masks restrict some airflow.  

As for the test you cite, there are hundreds of tests, and most seem to invalidate each other.  I don't really care about any of those test videos.

I do know that we have top college athletes using masks, often N95 masks, and performing at top level.  As a coach I see that happen in tournaments around the country.  These athletes are winning medals and championships while wearing masks and exerting themselves to their limits and somehow the masks don't seem to be hindering them.


----------



## BlackpillRevolution

Melensdad said:


> Not sure I understand your point.  Other than to agree with what I wrote.  Obviously masks restrict some airflow.
> 
> As for the test you cite, there are hundreds of tests, and most seem to invalidate each other.  I don't really care about any of those test videos.
> 
> I do know that we have top college athletes using masks, often N95 masks, and performing at top level.  As a coach I see that happen in tournaments around the country.  These athletes are winning medals and championships while wearing masks and exerting themselves to their limits and somehow the masks don't seem to be hindering them.


Depending how the mask is used.  it can make you sick, bacteria and fungus growth is a problem with mask.  A guy like me with pretty bad asthma and maybe other health problem problems lowers my breathing ability.  I can only wear a cloth one for about 3 to 5 minutes.  I tried a mask from South Korea and those I can't wear them for 30 seconds without coughing.
Average person isn't an athlete.  Well wait a few years and see, if they wear it long and often enough they can get a bacteria infection of the lungs.  I like to see your athlete run with a bacteria infection of the lung.









						COVID-19 Masks Causing Rise in Bacterial Pneumonia | Principia Scientific Intl.
					

A group is suing Tulsa Mayor G.T. Bynum and Tulsa Health Department Executive Director Bruce Dart, saying the city’s mask mandate is harmful to healthy people, reports Activist Post. The group includes business owners and two doctors who “are asking the city to immediately repeal the mask...




					principia-scientific.com
				





"The source of bacterial contamination in SMs was the body surface of the surgeons rather than the OR environment. Moreover, we recommend that surgeons should change the mask after each operation, especially those beyond 2 hours. Double-layered SMs or those with excellent filtration function may also be a better alternative."








						Surgical masks as source of bacterial contamination during operative procedures
					

Surgical masks (SMs) are used to reduce bacterial shedding from the mouth, nose and face. This study aimed to investigate whether SMs may be a potenti…




					www.sciencedirect.com


----------



## m1west

BlackpillRevolution said:


> Depending how the mask is used.  it can make you sick, bacteria and fungus growth is a problem with mask.  A guy like me with pretty bad asthma and maybe other health problem problems lowers my breathing ability.  I can only wear a cloth one for about 3 to 5 minutes.  I tried a mask from South Korea and those I can't wear them for 30 seconds without coughing.
> Average person isn't an athlete.  Well wait a few years and see, if they wear it long and often enough they can get a bacteria infection of the lungs.  I like to see your athlete run with a bacteria infection of the lung.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> COVID-19 Masks Causing Rise in Bacterial Pneumonia | Principia Scientific Intl.
> 
> 
> A group is suing Tulsa Mayor G.T. Bynum and Tulsa Health Department Executive Director Bruce Dart, saying the city’s mask mandate is harmful to healthy people, reports Activist Post. The group includes business owners and two doctors who “are asking the city to immediately repeal the mask...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> principia-scientific.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "The source of bacterial contamination in SMs was the body surface of the surgeons rather than the OR environment. Moreover, we recommend that surgeons should change the mask after each operation, especially those beyond 2 hours. Double-layered SMs or those with excellent filtration function may also be a better alternative."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Surgical masks as source of bacterial contamination during operative procedures
> 
> 
> Surgical masks (SMs) are used to reduce bacterial shedding from the mouth, nose and face. This study aimed to investigate whether SMs may be a potenti…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sciencedirect.com


I agree, at best you are re breathing some of your exhale. Thats 100% humidity, add some bacteria and its a recipe for Pneumonia.


----------



## BlackpillRevolution




----------



## BlackpillRevolution

COVID-19, pneumonia, and influenza deaths reported U.S. 2022 | Statista
					

Around 9.6 million people in the United States died from all causes between the beginning of January 2020 and November 17, 2022.




					www.statista.com


----------



## Melensdad

Interesting research, not a lot of press on this yet but I'm looking for corroboration.  From Bloomberg but found on the Bakersfield news website, says it was distributed by Tribune Media.  Given the 2 big news source names one would expect wider coverage?









						T cells come to the rescue as studies show they buck omicron
					

An unsung arm of the immune system appears to protect against severe disease with the omicron variant even when antibodies wane, helping to explain why a record wave of infections




					www.bakersfield.com
				





T cells come to the rescue as studies show they buck omicron​
Marthe Fourcade and Michelle Fay Cortez Bloomberg News (TNS)
​An unsung arm of the immune system appears to protect against severe disease with the omicron variant even when antibodies wane, helping to explain why a record wave of infections hasn’t engulfed hospitals so far.​T cells, the body’s weapon against virus-infected cells, were primed enough by vaccination that they defended against omicron in separate studies from Erasmus University in the Netherlands and the University of Cape Town in South Africa.​The findings could help explain why the wave of omicron cases hasn’t so far caused a surge in mortality from South Africa to the U.S. and the U.K. Unlike antibodies, T cells can target the whole of the virus’s spike protein, which remains largely similar even in the highly mutated omicron.​​The Dutch researchers looked at 60 vaccinated health-care workers and found that while their antibody responses to omicron were lower or nonexistent compared with the beta and delta variants, T cell responses were largely unaltered, “potentially balancing the lack of neutralizing antibodies in preventing or limiting severe Covid-19.”​The study from the University of Cape Town’s Institute of Infectious Disease and Molecular Medicine looked at patients who had recovered from Covid or been vaccinated with shots from Pfizer Inc. and partner BioNTech SE or Johnson & Johnson. They found that 70% to 80% of the T cell responses they assessed held up against omicron.​Recent weeks have brought evidence that the new strain can erode vaccine protection, prompting governments to push for booster shots to raise the level of antibodies that can fight off the variant.​​But immune protection has several layers. While antibodies block infection, T cells kill infected cells, preventing the virus from spreading and causing worse disease, Wendy Burgens, one of the University of Cape Town study authors, wrote on her Twitter account Virus Monologues. “They can’t prevent you from getting infected, but they can minimize the damage that comes afterwards,” she said.​T cells are white blood cells that can remember past diseases, kill virus-infected cells and rouse antibodies to marshal defenses. People infected with another coronavirus that was responsible for the SARS outbreak in 2003, for example, were found to still have a T-cell response to the disease 17 years later.​Another study found booster shots increased the production of T cells in the face of an omicron infection. Giving J&J’s vaccine to people who had previously received a messenger RNA shot yielded better results, though a third dose of Pfizer and BioNTech’s immunization also led to higher levels of cellular immunity and neutralizing antibodies after one month, according to findings from Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center.​———​©2021 Bloomberg L.P. Visit bloomberg.com. Distributed by Tribune Content Agency, LLC.​


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Long but worth listening too....









						JRE #1747 - Dr. Peter McCullough
					






					rumble.com


----------



## pirate_girl

The Omicron early warning sign you can hear before you feel | JOE.co.uk
					

Research has shown that you may hear the first signs of Omicron before you feel the standard symptoms experienced with the latest Covid variant.




					www.joe.co.uk
				




Professor Jennifer Rohn suggested including throat swabs in your testing regiment as it's believed the virus is more easily detectable in your throat at the start of infection.


----------



## pirate_girl

To add- we have a staff member fully vaccinated who tested positive today.
However, the seasonal flu is also starting to make it's rounds in our facility and others in the surrounding counties.


----------



## Melensdad

pirate_girl said:


> To add- we have a staff member fully vaccinated who tested positive today.
> However, the seasonal flu is also starting to make it's rounds in our facility and others in the surrounding counties.


Seems like Omicron is hitting everyone I know (_but not my immediate family_).  

The unvaccinated.  
The vaccinated.  
The vaccinated with boosters.  

It is different enough from the original covid and even the other variants that it is just going to get everyone.

I'm currently worried about our foreign exchange student.  She is in NY for a fencing camp.  Flies to LA on New Year's Day to attend another 4 day intensive fencing camp. Then flies to San Jose for the 2nd biggest national fencing tournament of the year before she flies back home and I pick her up in Chicago on Jan 8th.  Even if she is very careful she will be in contact with so many people who are traveling from so many different places. 

Kobe (_our part time foster son's_) grandmother tested positive today.  Normally we have him Sunday thru Wednesday but she felt sick yesterday and asked us to keep him an extra day.  Now we have him for the foreseeable future.  We are scheduled to take him to Florida with us in mid-January so it is likely we will have him for the better part of next month and already have had him for a week.  Her whole family is sick. 

Some of my fencers are sick.  We have friends who are sick.  It is pretty crazy.  

Fortunately none are in the hospital.  Some are miserable.  Some have mild cases.  But so many are sick and more are getting sick every day.  Forecast is that 60% of the population will have gotten sick by the end of March.


----------



## Melensdad

More information from Dr Campbell out of England.  Much of the data is from the US.  But he clearly shows that Omicron is both MORE infectious and LESS than prior covid variants.  Delta is still strong in many parts of the nation, but Omicron is rapidly taking over.

Looks like Omicron will move us past the PANDEMIC and into the ENDEMIC stage, where cases are milder and it will transition into a seasonal sort of thing like the common cold, seasonal flu, etc.  

In a prior video Dr Campbell looks at some new science out of South Africa, which is very promising.  T Cells seem to respond well to either the vaccine or natural immunity from those previously infected.  That basically means that Omicron will be statistically milder for those two groups of people.  The unvaccinated who do not have natural immunity are at the greatest risk, but even that risk seems to be lower.

This video is more of a data recap.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

I'm pretty sure I'm just getting over Omicron.  The first two days kind of sucked but otherwise it has just been a bad cold with some lingering congestion.  I'm still getting 1-2 workouts in everyday.


----------



## m1west

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq said:


> I'm pretty sure I'm just getting over Omicron.  The first two days kind of sucked but otherwise it has just been a bad cold with some lingering congestion.  I'm still getting 1-2 workouts in everyday.


Taste and smell?


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

m1west said:


> Taste and smell?


Apparently, Omicron doesn't impact those as much as the other strains.  Had the hot and cold flashes and my fingers seem to be extra cold sensitive.  All the other cruddy stuff too but it's mostly passed now.  I was vaxxed too so I suspect the symptoms to not be so bad for me.


----------



## echo

Me No Worry about politics.
We had the germ two years ago. 
Still have hot/cold flashes.
When all the politician's get richer, these viruses will go away.
Oh they lost my shot record and I won't tell, let them figure it out.
My Doctor never mentioned my shots at all?


----------



## Ironman




----------



## Melensdad

Ironman said:


> View attachment 142849


Do you have a link to this data?

The actual Worldmeter website does not have Jan 1, 2022 data uploaded.  It does have Dec 31.  5947 Deaths on that date.  

There is no question that omicron is less fatal.  But we need to have accurate data.









						COVID Live - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer
					

Live statistics and coronavirus news tracking the number of confirmed cases, recovered patients, tests, and death toll due to the COVID-19 coronavirus from Wuhan, China. Coronavirus counter with new cases, deaths, and number of tests per 1 Million population. Historical data and info. Daily...




					www.worldometers.info


----------



## Ironman

Melensdad said:


> Do you have a link to this data?
> 
> The actual Worldmeter website does not have Jan 1, 2022 data uploaded.  It does have Dec 31.  5947 Deaths on that date.
> 
> There is no question that omicron is less fatal.  But we need to have accurate data.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> COVID Live - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer
> 
> 
> Live statistics and coronavirus news tracking the number of confirmed cases, recovered patients, tests, and death toll due to the COVID-19 coronavirus from Wuhan, China. Coronavirus counter with new cases, deaths, and number of tests per 1 Million population. Historical data and info. Daily...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.worldometers.info
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 142850


No I can’t find that link atm….


----------



## Melensdad

Ironman said:


> No I can’t find that link atm….


I suspect the graphic is fake


----------



## BlackpillRevolution

Melensdad said:


> I suspect the graphic is fake


Maybe.  Since there is no source it's not credible.


----------



## BlackpillRevolution

Melensdad said:


> More information from Dr Campbell out of England.  Much of the data is from the US.  But he clearly shows that Omicron is both MORE infectious and LESS than prior covid variants.  Delta is still strong in many parts of the nation, but Omicron is rapidly taking over.
> 
> Looks like Omicron will move us past the PANDEMIC and into the ENDEMIC stage, where cases are milder and it will transition into a seasonal sort of thing like the common cold, seasonal flu, etc.
> 
> In a prior video Dr Campbell looks at some new science out of South Africa, which is very promising.  T Cells seem to respond well to either the vaccine or natural immunity from those previously infected.  That basically means that Omicron will be statistically milder for those two groups of people.  The unvaccinated who do not have natural immunity are at the greatest risk, but even that risk seems to be lower.
> 
> This video is more of a data recap.


People with weak immune system.  People in poor health and old people 70 and older.


----------



## Melensdad

BlackpillRevolution said:


> Maybe.  Since there is no source it's not credible.


Well yes, actually I linked to the Worldmeter, which is the claimed source.  I provided the Worldmeter current graph.  So both disprove that post.


----------



## BlackpillRevolution

Melensdad said:


> Well yes, actually I linked to the Worldmeter, which is the claimed source.  I provided the Worldmeter current graph.  So both disprove that post.


*You can't claim stats on something that doesn't exist.  Mostly likely they are counting flu deaths along with other deaths.  *​COVID-19 DOES NOT EXIST - END OF!​








						COVID-19 DOES NOT EXIST - END OF!
					






					www.bitchute.com


----------



## m1west

BlackpillRevolution said:


> *You can't claim stats on something that doesn't exist.  Mostly likely they are counting flu deaths along with other deaths.  *​COVID-19 DOES NOT EXIST - END OF!​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> COVID-19 DOES NOT EXIST - END OF!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bitchute.com


it existed when my wife and I got it.


----------



## pirate_girl

BlackpillRevolution said:


> *You can't claim stats on something that doesn't exist.  Mostly likely they are counting flu deaths along with other deaths.  *​COVID-19 DOES NOT EXIST - END OF!​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> COVID-19 DOES NOT EXIST - END OF!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bitchute.com


Don't be stupid.


----------



## Doc

Question:
A friend is feeling really bad.  Flu like symptoms but he still has taste and smell.   We guess that it's covid but he hasn't been tested so not sure.    He's looking for a place to get tested.  He has a fever, feels like crap.  I see no advantage to getting tested.  If he gets worse of course he'd go to ER but while feeling bad, much like how Franc described it when he had it, I see no need or advantage to get tested and have it verified.  It seems obvious.   But he is not feeling the taste and smell symptom that most mention.   
The question: Should he get tested?


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Doc said:


> The question: Should he get tested?


IMO, there is no reason too.  It isn't going to affect the course of treatment if the symptoms are mild.


----------



## jpr62902

Doc said:


> Question:
> A friend is feeling really bad.  Flu like symptoms but he still has taste and smell.   We guess that it's covid but he hasn't been tested so not sure.    He's looking for a place to get tested.  He has a fever, feels like crap.  I see no advantage to getting tested.  If he gets worse of course he'd go to ER but while feeling bad, much like how Franc described it when he had it, I see no need or advantage to get tested and have it verified.  It seems obvious.   But he is not feeling the taste and smell symptom that most mention.
> The question: Should he get tested?


I just got over this during the Christmas holiday. It took 5 days before the fever broke. I went ahead with a test since my doctor was willing to order one and I therefore wouldn't have to wait in any long line for the swab. The test was negative.

I thought it was important enough to know if I had COVID, since my wife has a significant problem with asthma.


----------



## Doc

His symptoms are bad in that he feels horrible.   I see no need to go out and verify now while he feels so bad.   No advantage to it that I know of.   He lives alone so no one else to consider.   He's in day three.

JP, so you didn't have covid?   Edit to add: I'm guessing they can tell it was covid even after your have just got over it.


----------



## Melensdad

Why get tested? 

Simple answer, if you do test 'positive' then you can get monoclonal anti-body treatments, which are amazingly effective.  But you have to ask for them.  It is best if you research them in advance of getting your results, simple google search of the locations in your area.  Know them when you walk in for the test.  If it is positive then say you'd like the tests, say these are the sites in the area, please helm me get into one ASAP.  It must come from a doctor or a LNP (at least that is how it works in my state).  It cuts the severity and duration of the illness down dramatically.


On a personal side note, our daughter Melen was exposed yesterday.  Presumably Omicron variant.  We are waiting to see if she develops symptoms.  Omicron typically presents fairly quickly, 24 to 72 hours.  So we wait.


----------



## Doc

Texted with him a little bit ago.  He is feeling better and thinks his fever broke overnight.   Still weak but most likely to late to get monoclonal anti-body treatments and get the benefit of it lessening symptoms.  Early on you need to know so you don't spread it and you can get the monoclonal anti-body treatments but it seems he's past that point.   
I will mention it to him though and he can decide.


----------



## m1west

Doc said:


> Question:
> A friend is feeling really bad.  Flu like symptoms but he still has taste and smell.   We guess that it's covid but he hasn't been tested so not sure.    He's looking for a place to get tested.  He has a fever, feels like crap.  I see no advantage to getting tested.  If he gets worse of course he'd go to ER but while feeling bad, much like how Franc described it when he had it, I see no need or advantage to get tested and have it verified.  It seems obvious.   But he is not feeling the taste and smell symptom that most mention.
> The question: Should he get tested


When I got it my doctor made an appointment for the drive thru, because he said that if I got worse and had to be hospitalized they won't treat it until confirmed. I went there but the cars were wrapped around the building twice, so I came back home and never got tested.


----------



## m1west

The taste and smell, left when the bad came about a week into it. Then came back when I started recovery.


----------



## jpr62902

Doc said:


> His symptoms are bad in that he feels horrible.   I see no need to go out and verify now while he feels so bad.   No advantage to it that I know of.   He lives alone so no one else to consider.   He's in day three.
> 
> JP, so you didn't have covid?   Edit to add: I'm guessing they can tell it was covid even after your have just got over it.


THe test came back "COVID not detected" for whatever that's worth.


----------



## Doc

jpr62902 said:


> THe test came back "COVID not detected" for whatever that's worth.


So, you are not sure if you had Covid 19 or the flu?   Wish there was a way to verify one or the other just so you know.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Doc said:


> So, you are not sure if you had Covid 19 or the flu?   Wish there was a way to verify one or the other just so you know.


The reliability of these tests is not that great.


----------



## BlackpillRevolution

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq said:


> The reliability of these tests is not that great.


There is no covid 19.


----------



## Melensdad

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq said:


> The reliability of these tests is not that great.


Yup, only about 97%

But much depends on when someone is tested too.  Same person can be negative 1 day and positive 2 days later without incurring any new contacts in the 48 hour interim because the tests detect viral load and have a bottom threshold.  

PCR tests, in the early days, were actually too sensitive.


----------



## Melensdad

BlackpillRevolution said:


> There is no covid 19.


Please go to a different thread to post your opinions.  

In this thread we try to discuss some of the current information about Covid 19.


----------



## Melensdad

Doc said:


> So, you are not sure if you had Covid 19 or the flu?   Wish there was a way to verify one or the other just so you know.


It is actually possible to have both.


----------



## pirate_girl

Melensdad said:


> It is actually possible to have both.


Probably unrelated to the subject at hand, but waaaay back when we first began seeing our residents becoming seriously ill by the numbers (3 months before we knew about covid 19) - they were testing positive for Influenza A which quickly became septic pneumonia.
Fast forward to NOW, once again we have the flu/brand A in our facility.
Only 2 have been sent to hospital.
The other six are on o2, or have started Tamiflu.
Depends on what their doctor decides.
No covid positive except for the one therapy worker, and she's ok.
This flu though isn't messing around.


----------



## Melensdad

pirate_girl said:


> Probably unrelated to the subject at hand, but waaaay back when we first began seeing our residents becoming seriously ill by the numbers (3 months before we knew about covid 19) - they were testing positive for Influenza A which quickly became septic pneumonia.
> Fast forward to NOW, once again we have the flu/brand A in our facility.
> Only 2 have been sent to hospital.
> The other six are on o2, or have started Tamiflu.
> Depends on what their doctor decides.
> No covid positive except for the one therapy worker, and she's ok.
> This flu though isn't messing around.


I think the big risk, both with the seasonal flu and with covid is when (IF) they enters the lungs.  

Covid is mild for most people if they don't have respiratory involvement.  If they do, it tends to get bad fairly quickly.  Pneumonia is a common complication with covid, especially for older individuals.  Similar with flu.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Melensdad said:


> Yup, only about 97%
> 
> But much depends on when someone is tested too.  Same person can be negative 1 day and positive 2 days later without incurring any new contacts in the 48 hour interim because the tests detect viral load and have a bottom threshold.
> 
> PCR tests, in the early days, were actually too sensitive.


Yeah 97% effective .... "but" then the disclaimer.

So maybe not that effective unless you are in a narrow window where all the conditions line up.


----------



## Melensdad

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq said:


> Yeah 97% effective .... "but" then the disclaimer.
> 
> So maybe not that effective unless you are in a narrow window where all the conditions line up.


Well a lot of people do stupid things.

For example, if you get exposed by kissing your sick aunt and go for a test a couple hours later it will be negative.  Even 24 hours later it will likely be negative.  But wait 72 hours and it will be positive.  The tests look for viral load, it takes time for your body to "grow" the virus.  The instructions are fairly clear.  Wait 3 to 5 days after theoretical exposure.  With omicron that is actually being dropped a bit, and now testing at 48 hours if omicron is suspected, is probably smart.

I know a lot of people who go get tested too soon, then blame the test.

Sorry, but that is dumb.


----------



## pirate_girl

Melensdad said:


> I think the big risk, both with the seasonal flu and with covid is when (IF) they enters the lungs.
> 
> Covid is mild for most people if they don't have respiratory involvement.  If they do, it tends to get bad fairly quickly.  Pneumonia is a common complication with covid, especially for older individuals.  Similar with flu.


Yes.
That's what happened with my son's friend MJ.
He had many pre-existing conditions as it was.
Overweight, diabetes and drank and smoked too much.
In the elderly, if they have heart or lung issues it can be a death sentence both with covid and the flu.
That's what we're seeing right now.


----------



## Melensdad

pirate_girl said:


> Yes.
> That's what happened with my son's friend MJ.
> He had many *pre-existing conditions* as it was.
> *Overweight, diabetes and drank and smoked too much.
> In the elderly*, if they have heart or lung issues it can be a death sentence both with covid and the flu.
> That's what we're seeing right now.


This is my observation too, and has been from about 6 or 8 months into this whole mess.

Anyone with pre-existing conditions, which typically includes most people over 65, many over 55, and some younger.  Anyone with an autoimmune disease like rheumatoid arthritis or type 1 diabetes.  Anyone who has type 2 diabetes or is seriously overweight _(and most overweight people don't realize they are not healthy_).  Anyone with pulmonary issues or High blood pressure. 

Basically if you are healthy you have minimal risk.  If you are elderly or if you have issues (_at any age_) then you are at risk.

Early intervention seems to be CRITICAL for those with potential issues.  But generally people who "wait it out" because there are no treatments are ignoring facts.  There are actual treatments that seems to work.  Here in the USA we tend to not treat it.  It is why our death rate is higher than many other nations.


----------



## BlackpillRevolution

pirate_girl said:


> Yes.
> That's what happened with my son's friend MJ.
> He had many pre-existing conditions as it was.
> Overweight, diabetes and drank and smoked too much.
> In the elderly, if they have heart or lung issues it can be a death sentence both with covid and the flu.
> That's what we're seeing right now.


Bingo.  You can't really say covid killed him though.  CDC has stated the same thing in 2020.  If you are in good health you are fine. Take your vitamin d3 5000IU and zinc.  Wash your hands for at least 30 seconds.


----------



## Melensdad

Interesting news.  Covid cases have officially topped 1 Million cases per day.

Currently we have about 1,200 per day dying from Covid, but we also know that 'death' is a lagging indicator and typically follows hospitalization by 1 to 3 weeks.  So we may see a surge in deaths UNLESS we find that the new Omicron version of Covid is, in fact, less fatal.  Which plenty of evidence seems to suggest may be the case.

Small portion of the article below, follow the link to CNBC for the full story:










						U.S. reports over 1 million new daily Covid cases as omicron surges
					

The U.S. also has the highest seven-day average of daily new cases in any country tracked by Johns Hopkins.




					www.cnbc.com
				



U.S. reports over 1 million new daily Covid cases as omicron surges​Holly Ellyatt​The U.S. reported a record number of new Covid cases on Monday, with over one million new infections.​​A total of 1,082,549 new coronavirus cases were reported on Monday, according to data from Johns Hopkins University, as the highly infectious omicron variant continues to spread throughout the country.​. . . ​The record single-day total may be due in part to delayed reporting from over the holiday weekend. A number of U.S. states did not report data on Dec. 31, New Year’s Eve, and many do not report data on weekends, meaning that some of these cases could be from positive tests taken on prior days.​​Nonetheless, as of Jan. 3, the seven-day average of daily new U.S. cases is 480,273, meaning the U.S. has the highest 7-day average of new cases in the world, according to JHU’s rankings.​​About 98,000 Americans are hospitalized with Covid-19, according to a seven-day average of data from the Department of Health and Human Services as of Jan. 3, up 32% from a week ago. That figure is approaching peak delta wave levels when about 103,000 people were in hospital beds with Covid across the country in early September, but remains lower than last winter’s high mark of roughly 137,000 U.S. hospitalizations.​​The *U.S. is reporting an average of about 1,200 daily Covid deaths for the week ending Jan. 3*, Hopkins data shows, well below the record numbers seen following* last year’s holiday season when the daily average held above 3,000* for about a month starting in January 2021. . . ​


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

New patent-free COVID vaccine developed as “gift to the world”
					

A new COVID-19 vaccine, developed by researchers from the Texas Children’s Hospital and Baylor College of Medicine, is being offered patent-free to vaccine manufacturers across the world. Human trials have shown the vaccine to be safe and effective, with India already authorizing its use as…




					newatlas.com


----------



## Melensdad

Melen was exposed on Sunday to someone who has no symptoms.  Later that evening that girl showed symptoms.  Monday morning tested Positive.  Melen is, so far, symptom free.  

A bunch of my high school fencing students now have Covid.  These are healthy athletic kids.  Some are pretty much fine, one of the healthiest and most athletic describes her condition as “sick AF”


----------



## EastTexFrank

It has arrived in East Texas with a vengeance.  I'm starting to here of more and more people that I know coming down with it.  A good friend of ours tested positive about 10 days ago.  He swears that he caught it from one of the kids when he played Santa at a party just before Christmas and had all those kids sitting on his knee.  His wife told him that she was evacuating the house and going to live in a tent in the back yard, which she did.  Unfortunately, on the third or fourth day of her camping trip, she developed symptoms as well.  At least she gets to isolate inside the house now and not in the back yard as it's been darned cold, and I mean COLD, here for the past few days.  He said that his symptoms were like a really bad cold while she is more like Bob's "sick AF" student.


----------



## Melensdad

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq said:


> New patent-free COVID vaccine developed as “gift to the world”
> 
> 
> A new COVID-19 vaccine, developed by researchers from the Texas Children’s Hospital and Baylor College of Medicine, is being offered patent-free to vaccine manufacturers across the world. Human trials have shown the vaccine to be safe and effective, with India already authorizing its use as…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> newatlas.com


This looks promising.

Especially when compared to the similarly produced Astra-Zeneca vaccine (which is also a patent free vaccine developed at Oxford University).  The AZ vaccine is not particularly effective and has quite a few side effects, it was never approved for use by the FDA in the United States, while it was widely used in the UK, it was also used modestly in Israel, India and other parts of the world.  The effectiveness of the AZ vaccine is modest.  

So if the new vaccine is better, and assuming it is updated, that is a great thing, especially for people who don't want any of the new style mRNA vaccines.


----------



## Melensdad

And another possible treatment is on the horizon. 

Derived from SEAWEED.

And again discovered and being developed by Israeli researchers.  This has the potential to become a real treatment, or part of a real treatment path for Covid.  Rather than worrying about vaccines and boosters, it may simply be a pill that you take similar to an aspirin?  Or perhaps a course of pills, similar to a "Z-pack" used to treat the flu.









						Fighting SARS-CoV-2 with green seaweed Ulva sp. extract: extraction protocol predetermines crude ulvan extract anti-SARS-CoV-2 inhibition properties in in vitro Vero-E6 cells assay
					

Due to the global COVID-19 pandemic, there is a need to screen for novel compounds with antiviral activity against SARS-COV-2. Here we compared chemical composition and the in vitro anti- SARS-COV-2 activity of two different Ulva sp. crude ulvan extracts: one obtained by an HCl-based and another...




					peerj.com


----------



## Ceee

Melensdad said:


> And another possible treatment is on the horizon.


Most of that article was way over my head, but I did read some of it.


Melensdad said:


> Rather than worrying about vaccines and boosters, it may simply be a pill that you take similar to an aspirin? Or perhaps a course of pills, similar to a "Z-pack" used to treat the flu.


I sure like the above part.

I don't, but a lot of people eat seaweed.  I don't know if what people eat and what they're using to develop this new treatment is the same or some very different type of seaweed.   

It seems like the Israelis are out in front of the pack for coming up with treatments, etc.  Are they sharing their findings with US researchers?   If so, why does the US seem to be lagging behind?  Maybe that article is their way of sharing?


----------



## mla2ofus

Ceee said:


> It seems like the Israelis are out in front of the pack for coming up with treatments, etc.  Are they sharing their findings with US researchers?   If so, why does the US seem to be lagging behind?  Maybe that article is their way of sharing?


   Because this covid thing has gotten to be more about control of the populace than the health of the populace!! And I think more and more are figuring this out.


----------



## Melensdad

Ceee said:


> It seems like the Israelis are out in front of the pack for coming up with treatments, etc.  Are they sharing their findings with US researchers?   If so, why does the US seem to be lagging behind?  Maybe that article is their way of sharing?


Yes they are sharing the info.


----------



## Ironman

AOC tests positive for COVID-19 after partying in Miami maskless
					

Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, D-N.Y., has tested positive for the coronavirus, according to a statement from her office on Sunday.




					www.foxnews.com


----------



## m1west

Ironman said:


> AOC tests positive for COVID-19 after partying in Miami maskless
> 
> 
> Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, D-N.Y., has tested positive for the coronavirus, according to a statement from her office on Sunday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.foxnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 143136


hope she got the delta


----------



## Melensdad

US Military documents, released by Project Veritas, show that Ivermectin works during all phased of the Covid infection to reduce the disease.






						Ivermectin 'Works Throughout All Phases' Of COVID According To Leaked Military Documents | ZeroHedge
					

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero




					www.zerohedge.com
				




Too long to post but well worth reading the documents.  This is just a small part.
​_Authored by Sundance via The Last Refuge,_​​Project Veritas has obtained military documents hidden on a classified system [HERE – and HERE – and HERE] showing how EcoHealth Alliance approached DARPA in March 2018, seeking funding to conduct gain of function research of bat borne coronaviruses.​​The proposal, named Project Defuse, was rejected by DARPA over safety concerns and the notion that it violated the gain of function research moratorium.  However, according to the documents, NIAID, under the direction of Dr. Fauci, went ahead with the research in Wuhan, China and at several sites across the U.S.​​​​[_ZH - and just today, Twitter banned Project Veritas' Eric Spracklen..._]​​


> _[WASHINGTON, D.C. – Jan. 10, 2022] Project Veritas has obtained startling never-before-seen documents regarding the origins of COVID-19, gain of function research, vaccines, potential treatments which have been suppressed, and the government’s effort to conceal all of this._​_The documents in question stem from a report at the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, better known as DARPA, which were hidden in a top-secret shared drive._​_DARPA is an agency under the U.S. Department of Defense in charge of facilitating research in technology with potential military applications._​_Project Veritas has obtained a separate report to the Inspector General of the Department of Defense written by U.S. Marine Corp Major, Joseph Murphy, a former DARPA Fellow._​_The report states that EcoHealth Alliance approached DARPA in March 2018, seeking funding to conduct gain of function research of bat borne coronaviruses. The proposal, named Project Defuse, was rejected by DARPA over safety concerns and the notion that it violates the basis gain of function research moratorium._​_According to the documents, NIAID, under the direction of Dr. Fauci, went ahead with the research in Wuhan, China and at several sites across the U.S. (read more)_​


----------



## PGBC

Melensdad said:


> US Military documents, released by Project Veritas, show that Ivermectin works during all phased of the Covid infection to reduce the disease.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ivermectin 'Works Throughout All Phases' Of COVID According To Leaked Military Documents | ZeroHedge
> 
> 
> ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.zerohedge.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Too long to post but well worth reading the documents.  This is just a small part.​​​_Authored by Sundance via The Last Refuge,_​​Project Veritas has obtained military documents hidden on a classified system [HERE – and HERE – and HERE] showing how EcoHealth Alliance approached DARPA in March 2018, seeking funding to conduct gain of function research of bat borne coronaviruses.​​The proposal, named Project Defuse, was rejected by DARPA over safety concerns and the notion that it violated the gain of function research moratorium.  However, according to the documents, NIAID, under the direction of Dr. Fauci, went ahead with the research in Wuhan, China and at several sites across the U.S.​​​​[_ZH - and just today, Twitter banned Project Veritas' Eric Spracklen..._]​​




Correct. 

That has been well proven, and documented.


----------



## Melensdad

It should be noted that BOTH of the treatments mentioned by the W.H.O. in this article from The Hill are already available for use in the USA.  I don't know if Canada, England, etc have authorized their use.  Full article at the link below:









						WHO recommends two new drugs to combat COVID-19 infection
					

The World Health Organization (WHO) recommended two new drugs to combat COVID-19 infections.The first new drug that is recommended for critical COVID-19 cases is baricitinib, an oral drug that supp…




					thehill.com
				




WHO recommends two new drugs to combat COVID-19 infection​​The World Health Organization (WHO) recommended two new drugs to combat COVID-19 infections.​​The first new drug that is recommended for critical COVID-19 cases is baricitinib, an oral drug that suppresses the immune system when overstimulated. ​​The WHO recommends baricitinib is given with corticosteroids.​​The second drug which should be used for mild cases where a person has a high chance of hospitalization is sotrovimab, a monoclonal antibody drug. . .​​“The extent to which these medicines will save lives depends on how widely available and affordable they will be,” the WHO said in its statement. ​​The recommendations come as concerns arise that existing COVID-19 treatments will not be effective against the omicron variant . . .​


----------



## Ceee

CDC Provides Tips on How to Avoid Counterfeit N95, KN95 Masks
					

As the omicron variant continues to cause a massive surge in COVID-19 cases across the country, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is considering updating their guidance on mask wearing, indicating that it will recommend that Americans wear more-protective facial coverings.




					www.nbcchicago.com
				




I know Melensdad has said this before about the single layer cloth masks.  I listened to his advice and bought some N95's.  After reading this, I'm not sure if I bought good ones or not.   I understand that right now they're in short supply, so the fakes are rampant out there.

Do I want to wear a mask, no.  Do I wear a mask when I'm around people who I don't really know, yes.
.......

"While federal officials say that any facial covering is better than not having one, there is *growing concern that single-layer cloth coverings may not provide sufficient protection* against the omicron variant, leading regulators to consider new guidelines that will encourage Americans to wear more protective masks, such as N95 or KN95 coverings."

"A big issue with such a recommendation, however, is the *proliferation of counterfeit facial coverings that has occurred during the COVID-19 pandemic. According to the CDC, more than 60% of the KN95 masks that are on the market in the United States are counterfeit, and Americans have reported similar issues with the more-protective N95 masks*, which are regulated and approved by the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH)."


----------



## Ceee

U.S. households can order 4 free COVID-19 tests starting Jan. 19 -White House
					

U.S. households can order four free at-home COVID-19 tests from the website COVIDTests.gov starting on Jan. 19 with shipping expected within seven to 12 days of ordering, the White House said on Friday.




					www.reuters.com
				




"WASHINGTON, Jan 14 (Reuters) - U.S. households can order four free at-home COVID-19 tests from the website COVIDTests.gov starting on Jan. 19 with shipping expected within seven to 12 days of ordering, the White House said on Friday.

The batch of free tests are aimed at easing a shortage of COVID-19 tests across the country amid increased demand during the rapid spread of the Omicron variant."


----------



## Ironman

Ceee said:


> "WASHINGTON, Jan 14 (Reuters) - U.S. households can order four free at-home COVID-19 tests from the website COVIDTests.gov starting on Jan. 19 with *shipping expected within seven to 12 days * of ordering, the White House said on Friday.


7-12 days


----------



## Ceee

Ironman said:


> 7-12 days


You want to go stand in this line because I sure don't.

"Dallas mother Yessica Hernandez said her son started to feel sick just after the holidays. His school required a negative COVID-19 test before returning, but while Hernandez searched for at-home tests, *she just couldn't find any*."













						Texans looking for COVID tests after the holidays find long lines, delayed results
					

Across the state, people are waiting hours in line to get tested and seeing delayed results as cities and counties deal with a testing shortage.




					www.keranews.org


----------



## Melensdad

I walked into the local Walgreen's 2 days ago.  They had Covid Rapid Tests sitting on the pharmacy counter.  I bought 2 boxes. I wasn't even looking to buy the tests.  But I had heard they are in short supply.  Turned out that it was good for me to buy them.  Gave a box to my daughter, she has been symptom free for a couple of days, took the test, came back Negative.  We took our masks off and had a belated birthday party for her.


----------



## Ceee

Melensdad said:


> They had Covid Rapid Tests sitting on the pharmacy counter.


I'm glad that you got some.

That's not happening in my area.  They're not on the shelves.  If you can find them, the shipping is pretty high.


----------



## Melensdad

They were on the pharmacy counter at my local store.  Not out in the store on the shelves.


----------



## pirate_girl

Melensdad said:


> They were on the pharmacy counter at my local store.  Not out in the store on the shelves.


They're available around here too at all instore pharmacies.

Covid : 7 residents now positive on our unit.
None of which are really suffering any bad symptoms.


----------



## EastTexFrank

Those home test kits are nowhere to be found in my area.  All the large pharmacies in the area issued statements saying, "Please don't ask, we don't have any and don't know if we will ever have any".  In fact, most of the large pharmacies have stopped Covid testing all-together.  If you want tested, you have to go to your doctor or the emergency room at a hospital.  I suppose that's one way to keep the total numbers down.


----------



## Ceee

EastTexFrank said:


> If you want tested, you have to go to your doctor or the emergency room at a hospital.


That's exactly what I do NOT want to do.  Those places have to be a hot bed of omicron right now.


----------



## FrancSevin

Ceee said:


> That's exactly what I do NOT want to do.  Those places have to be a hot bed of omicron right now.


That is because the Gubmit misinformation machine has attempted to make everyone scared to death of this new Omicron variant.  Omicron, it turns out, is more contagious but less lethal than the common flu.
When was the last time you heard the Gubmit say that?
Never. So the Emergency rooms are full of scared people.

This is what much of America has become, scared and dependent on the Gubmit. And to think we once took on the mightiest military in the world over a tax on stationary.  Someone should tell Queen Liz that perhaps England can get it back, easy.


----------



## Ceee

FrancSevin said:


> Omicron, it turns out, is more contagious but less lethal than the common flu.


I'm not scared to death of it.  I just figure why go down there to get a test when I'm not even feeling bad.  I don't even want to experience mild omicron.  I'll just wait on the mailed tests and test if the need arises.  

It seems that this is very political for you.  It's not for me.  It's just common sense...don't expose yourself if it's not necessary.


----------



## Melensdad

Ceee said:


> I'm not scared to death of it.  I just figure why go down there to get a test when I'm not even feeling bad.  I don't even want to experience mild omicron.  I'll just wait on the mailed tests and test if the need arises.
> 
> It seems that this is very political for you. * It's not for me.  It's just common sense...don't expose yourself if it's not necessary.*


Pretty much my take on it.

I'm friends with the owner of the local funeral home.  He had 10 calls this weekend.  He said most were covid. Most were older people.  

I'm glad that Omicron is less lethal, to the point that it is a very minor concern for all those who don't have a bunch of other health issues, but the fact is, I'd still prefer not to get it.  And I'm glad I took the precautions I took, and still take, and happy that I got a booster shot too.  I will admit that I'm uncertain if I want to get another booster.  There is a risk/reward issue and we really don't know the actual longer term risks.


----------



## FrancSevin

Ceee said:


> I'm not scared to death of it.  I just figure why go down there to get a test when I'm not even feeling bad.  I don't even want to experience mild omicron.  I'll just wait on the mailed tests and test if the need arises.
> 
> It seems that this is very political for you.  It's not for me.  It's just common sense...don't expose yourself if it's not necessary.


Cee, my comments weren't aimed at you.  I have been tested, not so much because I fear the disease but so I can take steps to prevent infecting others. I'm betting your motives are much the same.

 That said, you are right, this IS very political.  But not just to me.

Every time the government tells you what they think is good for you, remember the words of our founders.  NEVER trust the government. The COVID fear mongering for over two years now, isn't about our health. If it was, officials would stop trying to blame everyone, anyone, else about their own failures.  Where is the admission by our government, that the "vaccine" has not slowed the rate of infection in the population?

Even if you are a Trump supporter, honesty demands that one admits, the "vaccine" is not what we had hoped.

_"Whenever a man casts a longing eye on offices, a rottenness begins in his conduct,"_
T Jefferson 1799

When a government tells you that you cannot go to work unless you get a medication that is actually_ not yet proven safe_, be suspicious.

When the next variant comes thru less lethal than Omicron, and these same government "experts" tell you to get another booster or else, would you then finally agree it might be political?


----------



## PGBC

FrancSevin said:


> Cee, my comments weren't aimed at you.  I have been tested, not so much because I fear the disease but so I can take steps to prevent infecting others. I'm betting your motives are much the same.
> 
> That said, you are right, this IS very political.  But not just to me.
> 
> Every time the government tells you what they think is good for you, remember the words of our founders.  NEVER trust the government. The COVID fear mongering for over two years now, isn't about our health. If it was, officials would stop trying to blame everyone, anyone, else about their own failures.  Where is the admission by our government, that the "vaccine" has not slowed the rate of infection in the population?
> 
> Even if you are a Trump supporter, honesty demands that one admits, the "vaccine" is not what we had hoped.
> 
> _"Whenever a man casts a longing eye on offices, a rottenness begins in his conduct,"_
> T Jefferson 1799
> 
> When a government tells you that you cannot go to work unless you get a medication that is actually_ not yet proven safe_, be suspicious.
> 
> When the next variant comes thru less lethal than Omicron, and these same government "experts" tell you to get another booster or else, would you then finally agree it might be political?




Thousands of Physicians have been saying almost the same thing, for over a year. 
When I spoke out against the fake news, the government was trying everything to silence me.
They DO NOT want anyone telling the truth!


----------



## Ceee

FrancSevin said:


> Cee, my comments weren't aimed at you.


Your comments don't bother me at all.  I like discussion as long as it's civil.  You get to state your opinions, I get to state mine too.  


FrancSevin said:


> but so I can take steps to prevent infecting others. I'm betting your motives are much the same.


Yes!


----------



## Doc

Two takes on where we are headed.  Fauci fear tactics.   









						SAGE expert says UK to have 'flu-type' relationship with Covid by 2023
					

Dr Mike Tildesley, from the University of Warwick, said he expects even milder variants than Omicron to emerge over the course of the year and bolster the UK's wall of immunity.




					www.dailymail.co.uk
				
















						Fauci warns that Omicron may not be the 'end' of Covid
					

Dr Anthony Fauci, the U.S.'s top infectious disease expert, warns that the Omicron variant may not be the last of the Covid pandemic and that a new strain could eventually emerge.




					www.dailymail.co.uk


----------



## FrancSevin

Doc said:


> Two takes on where we are headed.  Fauci fear tactics.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAGE expert says UK to have 'flu-type' relationship with Covid by 2023
> 
> 
> Dr Mike Tildesley, from the University of Warwick, said he expects even milder variants than Omicron to emerge over the course of the year and bolster the UK's wall of immunity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 143518
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fauci warns that Omicron may not be the 'end' of Covid
> 
> 
> Dr Anthony Fauci, the U.S.'s top infectious disease expert, warns that the Omicron variant may not be the last of the Covid pandemic and that a new strain could eventually emerge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 143519


Great post Doc, thanks!


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Free stuff ... well "free" if you never paid any taxes ...






						COVID Home Tests | USPS
					

COVID Home Tests | USPS




					special.usps.com


----------



## Ceee

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq said:


> Free stuff ... well "free" if you never paid any taxes ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> COVID Home Tests | USPS
> 
> 
> COVID Home Tests | USPS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> special.usps.com


You are sooo right about this.  It came out a day early.  Thanks for the heads-up.


----------



## Ceee

Ordered mine and already have the confirmation...just yay!


----------



## mla2ofus

Just remember, ceee, like the vaccines you and I paid for it!!


----------



## Melensdad

mla2ofus said:


> Just remember, ceee, like the vaccines you and I paid for it!!


Actually given the level of the national debt that has been piling up, our grand and great-grand children will be paying for it as we are spending their income.

------------------------------ 0 ------------------------------

Masks have not been discussed much, but I'd point out that early in this thread we discussed N95 masks.  Later in the thread we discussed N95 masks.  Each time suggesting that the stupid cloth masks were worthless.  Seems that the CDC has now changed its tune.  The only masks that work to protect you from Omicron are the N95 respirator masks.  Of course the CDC still contends the N95 is to be reserved for front line medical staff.


----------



## FrancSevin

Melensdad said:


> Actually given the level of the national debt that has been piling up, our grand and great-grand children will be paying for it as we are spending their income.
> 
> ------------------------------ 0 ------------------------------
> 
> Masks have not been discussed much, but I'd point out that early in this thread we discussed N95 masks.  Later in the thread we discussed N95 masks.  Each time suggesting that the stupid cloth masks were worthless.  Seems that the CDC has now changed its tune.  The only masks that work to protect you from Omicron are the N95 respirator masks.  Of course the CDC still contends the N95 is to be reserved for front line medical staff.


Try wearing an N95 into a hospital.  They make you take it off and apply a useless paper one.


----------



## Melensdad

FrancSevin said:


> Try wearing an N95 into a hospital.  They make you take it off and apply a useless paper one.


BULLSHIT

If you wear a VENTED mask, of any type, they will typically make you remove it in any medical facility.  You re referring to VENTED masks.  Vented masks allow you to exhale directly out of the mask and since Covid is airborne it is VENTED masks (_typically used in construction and industry_) that are not allowed.

But if you wear any regular N95 mask there is no issue.  ALL that me and my family wear are N95 masks.  My daughter just recovered from Covid.  Both my wife and I have been in the hospital and multiple medical clinics within the last 30 days. The doctors are wearing the same masks as I am wearing.


----------



## Ceee

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq said:


> "free" if you never paid any taxes ...


I have paid my fair share of taxes ever since I starting working part time in the 11th grade.  So I'll just consider my masks _paid for in advance_.


----------



## FrancSevin

Ceee said:


> I have paid my fair share of taxes ever since I starting working part time in the 11th grade.  So I'll just consider my masks _paid for in advance_.


Yes, you did.  We all did.

But, have you seen the National debt?  Today's tests and shots are being paid for by our grandchildren.


----------



## Melensdad

And another new type of vaccine.

While we know that none of the vaccines seem to endure very long, as they work on the antibodies.  The research has been mainly turning toward T-cell response and how longer term immunity, or at least resistance, is coming from the T-cell memory.  This new Swiss vaccine focuses on T-cell response and could give immunity response for multiple years.

Sadly, just entering early phases.  This is just the start of the article, follow the link for the full story:






						Swiss researchers launch trial for COVID "patch" vaccine
					

HEALTH-CORONAVIRUS/VACCINE-PATCH (TV, PIX):Swiss researchers launch trial for COVID "patch" vaccine




					news.trust.org
				





Swiss researchers launch trial for COVID "patch" vaccine​By Cecile Mantovani​​LAUSANNE, Switzerland, Jan 19 (Reuters) - Swiss medical researchers said on Wednesday they have launched an early-stage study to test a next-generation COVID-19 vaccine candidate which would be administered via an arm patch, the latest to look at alternative methods of giving injections.​​Unlike conventional vaccines that stimulate antibody production, the new PepGNP-Covid19 vaccine candidate focuses on T-cells, which are responsible for cellular immunity, to eliminate cells infected by the virus and prevent it from replicating.​...​Professor Blaise Genton, head of the study, said this cellular immunity generates so-called "memory cells", which could make the vaccine more durable and could be better than others at protecting against potential variants of the virus.​​The possible vaccine will be administered via micro-needles in the patch that are less than one millimetre deep that they hope will provide long-term immunity from COVID-19 and do away with the need for seasonal booster shots...​


----------



## FrancSevin

Melensdad said:


> BULLSHIT
> 
> If you wear a VENTED mask, of any type, they will typically make you remove it in any medical facility.  You re referring to VENTED masks.  Vented masks allow you to exhale directly out of the mask and since Covid is airborne it is VENTED masks (_typically used in construction and industry_) that are not allowed.
> 
> But if you wear any regular N95 mask there is no issue.  ALL that me and my family wear are N95 masks.  My daughter just recovered from Covid.  Both my wife and I have been in the hospital and multiple medical clinics within the last 30 days. The doctors are wearing the same masks as I am wearing.


Here in St Louis, it happens every time I go to a medical facility.
Currently undergoing a weekly therapy.
Not vented,
Not BS.
Every time.
Further, from the point of the science, if everyone has a mask on, practiced protocols of not touching their eyes and lips, then what I exhale should present them no danger.


----------



## FrancSevin

How effective is a mask in preventing COVID‐19 infection?
					

The main clinical characteristics of COVID‐19 are respiratory symptoms that can lead to serious cardiovascular damages and severe worsening of other medical conditions. One of the major strategies in preparedness and response to COVID 19 is effective ...




					www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
				




A thorough and interesting study on the efficacy of masks and how the various mediums work with COVID spread.


----------



## Melensdad

FrancSevin said:


> How effective is a mask in preventing COVID‐19 infection?
> 
> 
> The main clinical characteristics of COVID‐19 are respiratory symptoms that can lead to serious cardiovascular damages and severe worsening of other medical conditions. One of the major strategies in preparedness and response to COVID 19 is effective ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A thorough and interesting study on the efficacy of masks and how the various mediums work with COVID spread.


There are quite a few good studies, going back to the early stages of Covid, and meta-analysis too, all of which show that general mask orders does effectively nothing to stop or slow the spread of covid.

What we also know is that there are some specific studies that show, IF properly used, and IF properly cared for and IF properly fitted, then N95 masks, combined with basic eye protection, can very effectively protect the use from getting covid.

Most people reuse disposable masks.  Most people over-use disposable masks.  Most people treat their masks about as well as they do a dirty dish rag, stuffing them in their pockets, touching the inside and outside, etc.  Most people seem to re-wear their cloth masks without ever washing them!  WTF?  

What I shocking is that people actually bought into the concept that 3 pieces of cotton cloth would actually do something.


----------



## FrancSevin

Melensdad said:


> There are quite a few good studies, going back to the early stages of Covid, and meta-analysis too, all of which show that general mask orders does effectively nothing to stop or slow the spread of covid.
> 
> What we also know is that there are some specific studies that show, IF properly used, and IF properly cared for and IF properly fitted, then N95 masks, combined with basic eye protection, can very effectively protect the use from getting covid.
> 
> Most people reuse disposable masks.  Most people over-use disposable masks.  Most people treat their masks about as well as they do a dirty dish rag, stuffing them in their pockets, touching the inside and outside, etc.  Most people seem to re-wear their cloth masks without ever washing them!  WTF?
> 
> What I shocking is that people actually bought into the concept that 3 pieces of cotton cloth would actually do something.


I think a big issue with the masks, other than their porosity, is that most people do not know how and where to use them effectively.  I imagine that has a lot to do with study outcomes. Not the fault of the product but the users who did what they were told because they had to.  And did not know any better.


----------



## Ceee

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2022/01/13/kn95-n95-mask-reuse-omicron/
		


“In the ideal world — or pre-pandemic — many masks were really viewed as single-use,” said Michael G. Knight, an assistant professor of medicine at George Washington University. “The reality is they do have a little bit more length in the amount of time we can use them.”

What’s crucial, Knight said, is making sure the mask has “maintained its integrity.” Think about how many times you’ve used it and for how long, he said.

“*If I’m just putting a mask on to go to the grocery store for 45 minutes and I’m taking it off, that mask very well should be able to last me a couple of days*,” he said."




Melensdad said:


> Most people reuse disposable masks. Most people over-use disposable masks.


I reuse disposable masks.  I do rotate them and store them in a paper bag so that I'm not wearing the same one all the time.  I usually don't even wear them for longer than for about 30-45 minutes a time, sometimes only about 10 minutes.

If I threw away a disposable mask every single time I put it on my face, I'd be in the poor house.  Doesn't the virus die after a certain period of time (72hrs??) if it's not in the human body...nose, eyes, lungs, etc.?


----------



## Melensdad

The disposable surgical masks have a lifespan of about 20 to 30 minutes before they are pretty well wet with your humid exhaled breath.  Once they are moist any virus can/will migrate through the mask and you are just exhaling your germs into the air.

N95 masks tend to have a much longer lifespan, they can be used for a few hours.  Drying them and reusing them every other day is actually something that hospitals have done.  Our local hospital used them for 3 "shifts" and then disposed of them.

Much of the problem with masks is that they are often just treated incorrectly, stuffed into dirty pockets, etc.  I've actually seen people pick them up off the floor and reuse them.


----------



## FrancSevin

I'm kinda lucky in that we have thousands of the disposables here left over from a packaging contract.
So, generally I toss them after one use.

Sadly, I see them everywhere disposed of like drug needles in parks and parking lots.  Disgusting.


----------



## Ceee

FrancSevin said:


> we have thousands of the disposables here left over from a packaging contract


You could do a humanitarian thing with some of those left over masks.  People need them right now....schools, etc.


----------



## mla2ofus

How about running only dry masks in the drier for the heat. When we had bedbugs we had to run all our dry clothes in the drier to kill any eggs. I checked and the temp was 165*F.


----------



## Melensdad

Looks like the US covid cases of Omicron have peaked and are now starting to decline.  However some regions are still increasing while others are decreasing.  So the Northeast is in a decline in cases while the midwest, where I live, are still rapidly increasing.

Full story at the link:









						Is COVID retreating in the U.S.? Data paints encouraging scenario
					

NEW YORK (Reuters) -New coronavirus cases are falling in parts of the United States  hit hardest by the fast-spreading Omicron variant, according to a Reuters analysis of public health data, offering an early indication the virus might once again be in retreat.  COVID-19 infections have...




					news.yahoo.com
				




NEW YORK (Reuters) -New coronavirus cases are falling in parts of the United States hit hardest by the fast-spreading Omicron variant, according to a Reuters analysis of public health data, offering an early indication the virus might once again be in retreat.​​COVID-19 infections have decreased in 19 states https://graphics.reuters.com/HEALTH-CORONAVIRUS/USA-OMICRON/zgvomadgmvd/USA-OMICRON.jpg plus Washington, D.C. and Puerto Rico, an analysis of the past week through Thursday compared with the prior week showed.​​In the Northeast, which saw some of the highest case loads during the latest surge, infections are down 40% week-over-week.​​"Certainly it bodes well for us in terms of the trajectory of Omicron," said Wafaa El-Sadr, a professor of epidemiology and medicine at Columbia University in New York City.​​The drop was more modest at the national level https://graphics.reuters.com/world-...-maps/countries-and-territories/united-states, with new reported COVID-19 cases down 7% during the same time period, according to the Reuters tally, as Omicron surges in some other parts of the country.​​COVID-19 data often lag a few days behind the actual state of affairs.​​In the Midwest, cases climbed 11% over the past seven days compared with the previous week, and were up 2% in the South, although the increase has slowed considerably in recent weeks. Western states saw a 3% week-over-week drop in new infections, according to the tally.​​Nationally, new cases are averaging a still-high 738,000 a day, down from a peak of 805,000 on Jan. 15.​​Deaths, which usually lag new infections by about three weeks and are occurring primarily among the unvaccinated, are averaging more than 2,000 a day, up 50% from the start of the month. That is highest average number of COVID-19 deaths since the end of September, but lower than the record of 3,300 lives lost a day in January 2021.​​COVID hospitalizations, also a lagging indicator, set a record on Thursday at 152,746, according to the Reuters tally, but have been showing signs of stabilizing at around 150,000 over the past week.​


----------



## Ceee

mla2ofus said:


> How about running only dry masks in the drier for the heat.


I've never heard of this.  I was told at the very beginning of all this stuff to put the paper masks in a brown paper lunch bag and into a slow oven to disinfect.  I never tried it.  It just seemed like asking for an oven fire to me.


----------



## Melensdad

I'm just going to leave this here, without comment.  Because I have no words.










						China brings back anal swab testing for Covid two weeks before Winter Olympics
					

CHINA has brought back its “undignified” anal Covid swabs just two weeks before the Beijing Winter Olympics begin. The Communist regime claims the virus test — which involves inserting …




					www.the-sun.com


----------



## mla2ofus

That's a good way to create more boycott!!


----------



## Ceee

Melensdad said:


> And another new type of vaccine.
> 
> While we know that none of the vaccines seem to endure very long, as they work on the antibodies.  The research has been mainly turning toward T-cell response and how longer term immunity, or at least resistance, is coming from the T-cell memory.  This new Swiss vaccine focuses on T-cell response and could give immunity response for multiple years.
> 
> Sadly, just entering early phases.  This is just the start of the article, follow the link for the full story:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Swiss researchers launch trial for COVID "patch" vaccine
> 
> 
> HEALTH-CORONAVIRUS/VACCINE-PATCH (TV, PIX):Swiss researchers launch trial for COVID "patch" vaccine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.trust.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Swiss researchers launch trial for COVID "patch" vaccine​By Cecile Mantovani​​LAUSANNE, Switzerland, Jan 19 (Reuters) - Swiss medical researchers said on Wednesday they have launched an early-stage study to test a next-generation COVID-19 vaccine candidate which would be administered via an arm patch, the latest to look at alternative methods of giving injections.​​Unlike conventional vaccines that stimulate antibody production, the new PepGNP-Covid19 vaccine candidate focuses on T-cells, which are responsible for cellular immunity, to eliminate cells infected by the virus and prevent it from replicating.​...​Professor Blaise Genton, head of the study, said this cellular immunity generates so-called "memory cells", which could make the vaccine more durable and could be better than others at protecting against potential variants of the virus.​​The possible vaccine will be administered via micro-needles in the patch that are less than one millimetre deep that they hope will provide long-term immunity from COVID-19 and do away with the need for seasonal booster shots...​


I've been reading and hearing about a new Pfizer universal vaccine being developed.  Is this the same thing?  I would certainly love a vaccine for covid that is much like the flu vaccine...once a year and done.


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> And another new type of vaccine.
> 
> While we know that none of the vaccines seem to endure very long, as they work on the antibodies.  The research has been mainly turning toward T-cell response and how longer term immunity, or at least resistance, is coming from the T-cell memory.  This new Swiss vaccine focuses on T-cell response and could give immunity response for multiple years.
> 
> Sadly, just entering early phases.  This is just the start of the article, follow the link for the full story:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Swiss researchers launch trial for COVID "patch" vaccine
> 
> 
> HEALTH-CORONAVIRUS/VACCINE-PATCH (TV, PIX):Swiss researchers launch trial for COVID "patch" vaccine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.trust.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Swiss researchers launch trial for COVID "patch" vaccine​By Cecile Mantovani​​LAUSANNE, Switzerland, Jan 19 (Reuters) - Swiss medical researchers said on Wednesday they have launched an early-stage study to test a next-generation COVID-19 vaccine candidate which would be administered via an arm patch, the latest to look at alternative methods of giving injections.​​Unlike conventional vaccines that stimulate antibody production, the new PepGNP-Covid19 vaccine candidate focuses on T-cells, which are responsible for cellular immunity, to eliminate cells infected by the virus and prevent it from replicating.​...​Professor Blaise Genton, head of the study, said this cellular immunity generates so-called "memory cells", which could make the vaccine more durable and could be better than others at protecting against potential variants of the virus.​​The possible vaccine will be administered via micro-needles in the patch that are less than one millimetre deep that they hope will provide long-term immunity from COVID-19 and do away with the need for seasonal booster shots...​


T cells are the way natural immunity after infection works, to protect you long term.


----------



## Melensdad

Ceee said:


> I've been reading and hearing about a new Pfizer universal vaccine being developed.  Is this the same thing?  I would certainly love a vaccine for covid that is much like the flu vaccine...once a year and done.


The Pfizer vaccine is a combination of both the seasonal flu shot (_which varies from year to year_) with a Covid vaccine booster.


----------



## Ceee

'Stealth' version of omicron found in North Texas, here's what's known
					

Scientists and health officials are keeping their eyes on a descendant of the omicron variant that has been found in at least 40 countries. At least two cases have been confirmed in North Texas.




					www.fox4news.com
				




"Another new mutation of the coronavirus is now here in North Texas.
The COVID-19 "stealth" omicron or BA.2 variant is reportedly difficult to detect and spreads even more easily than the highly contagious omicron variant.
Health officials don’t yet know if it can evade vaccines or cause more serious illness."
.......
Once again, here we are in Tx with ICU beds being pushed to the max.


----------



## Melensdad

A lot of not much to report.

*Joe Rogan*, a guy who is apparently the most popular podcaster in the world, is costing SPOTIFY billions of dollars as their stock devalued because he told the truth about a lot of what is going on with Covid.  Liberal musicians and singers are removing their music from the SPOTIFY service over "Covid misinformation" broadcast by Rogan.  

*Omicron* has indeed filled many hospital beds, it has also infected much of the world, now it has a more communicable variant, which is also apparently mild.  It appears that Omicron is, indeed, the big fizzle we have been looking for with regards to covid.  For people with low risk factors, Omicron seems to be statistically zero real threat.  For the people with multiple comorbidities, omicron should still be taken seriously because those folks still tend to end up in the hospital and die.

*Ivermectin* is back in the news.  For working.









						Japan's Kowa says Ivermectin showed 'antiviral effect' against Omicron
					

Clinical trials are ongoing, but promotion of ivermectin as a COVID-19 treatment has generated controversy.




					www.jpost.com
				




Japanese trading and pharmaceutical company Kowa Co Ltd said on Monday anti-parasite drug Ivermectin showed an "antiviral effect" against Omicron and other variants of coronavirus in joint non-clinical research.​​The company, which has been working with Tokyo's Kitasato University on testing the drug as a potential treatment for COVID-19, did not provide further details.​​Clinical trials are ongoing, but promotion of Ivermectin as a COVID-19 treatment has generated controversy.​


----------



## Melensdad

Vitamin D people.  I'm taking 5000iu per day.  My blood was tested, it is sufficient for me.  My wife is at 10,000iu per day because 5000iu was not sufficient for her.  A simple blood test by your doctor can tell you what your levels are and help guide you to the daily dose you need.

Vitamin D, as noted many times in this thread, slowly builds in your system, if you get sick it is actually too late to take it. It builds up in your cells over weeks.  It is cheap to buy and available at most supermarkets and pharmacies.  You may want to take it as a daily supplement.










						Israeli study offers strongest proof yet of vitamin D’s power to fight COVID
					

Bolstering previous research, scientists publish 'remarkable' data showing strong link between vitamin deficiency, prevalent in Israel, and death or serious illness among patients




					www.timesofisrael.com
				





​Israel scientists say they have gathered the most convincing evidence to date that increased vitamin D levels can help COVID-19 patients reduce the risk of serious illness or death.​​Researchers from Bar Ilan University and the Galilee Medical Center say that the vitamin has such a strong impact on disease severity that they can predict how people would fare if infected based on nothing more than their ages and vitamin D levels.​​Lacking vitamin D significantly increases danger levels, they concluded in newly peer-reviewed research published Thursday in the journal PLOS One.​​The study is based on research conducted during Israel’s first two waves of the virus, before vaccines were widely available, and doctors emphasized that vitamin supplements were not a substitute for vaccines, but rather a way to keep immunity levels from falling.​​Vitamin D deficiency is endemic across the Middle East, including in Israel, where nearly four in five people are low on the vitamin, according to one study from 2011. By taking supplements before infection, though, the researchers in the new Israeli study found that patients could avoid the worst effects of the disease.​​“We found it remarkable, and striking, to see the difference in the chances of becoming a severe patient when you are lacking in vitamin D compared to when you’re not,” said Dr. Amiel Dror, a Galilee Medical Center physician and Bar Ilan researcher who was part of the team behind the study.​​He noted that his study was conducted pre-Omicron, but said that the coronavirus doesn’t change fundamentally enough between variants to negate vitamin D effectiveness.​​“What we’re seeing when vitamin D helps people with COVID infections is a result of its effectiveness in bolstering the immune systems to deal with viral pathogens that attack the respiratory system,” he told The Times of Israel. “This is equally relevant for Omicron as it was for previous variants.”​​Health authorities in Israel and several other countries have recommended vitamin D supplements in response to the coronavirus pandemic, though data on its effectiveness has been sparse until now.​​In June, researchers published preliminary findings showing that 26 percent of coronavirus patients died if they were vitamin D deficient soon before hospitalization, compared to 3% who had normal levels of vitamin D.​​They also determined that hospitalized patients who were vitamin D deficient were 14 times more likely, on average, to end up in severe or critical condition than others.​​While the scientific community recognized the importance of the results, questions arose as to whether recent health conditions among the patients might have been skewing the results.​​The possibility was raised that patients could have been suffering from conditions that both reduce vitamin D levels and increase vulnerability to serious illness from COVID-19, meaning the vitamin deficiency would be a symptom rather than a contributing factor in disease severity.​​To zero out that possibility, Dror’s team delved deeper into the data, examining each of its patients’ vitamin D levels over the two-year stretch before coronavirus infection. They found that the strong correlation between sufficient vitamin D levels and ability to fight the coronavirus still held, and the level of increased danger in their preliminary findings remained almost identical.​​“We checked a range of timeframes, and found that wherever you look over the two years before infection, the correlation between vitamin D and disease severity is extremely strong,” Dror said.​​“Because this study gets such a good picture of patients’ vitamin D levels, by looking at a wide timeframe instead of just the time around hospitalization, it offers much stronger support than anything seen so far emphasizing the importance of boosting vitamin D levels during the pandemic,” . . . ​


----------



## Ceee

I still take my vitamin D daily.

I know this is not a popular topic on here but gotta say it anyway just in case someone else might want to order some.  I just received my covid tests from the gov yesterday.  It took 16 days, but whatever now I have them just in case I need them.


----------



## Melensdad

Ceee said:


> I still take my vitamin D daily.
> 
> I know this is not a popular topic on here but gotta say it anyway just in case someone else might want to order some.  I just received my covid tests from the gov yesterday.  It took 16 days, but whatever now I have them just in case I need them.


I also received our free covid tests too, we got ours in the mail last week.  Honestly not sure how long it took to get them, I didn't think to check.  I believe you can re-order them every month and get 4 per month.


----------



## m1west

One of our kids is a long hauler. Tyler who got it first, still doesn't have his taste and smell after more than 6 month. About 10 days ago he developed Covid symptoms, got tested and was negative. The symptoms were mild and cleared in about 7 days


----------



## Ceee

New info to me...looks like there is or will be a spit test for covid.  Some news that I've read says that it's more accurate than the nasal swab.  That may not be true.  I sure don't know.


----------



## pirate_girl

Prince Charles isolating after testing positive for Covid-19
					

A message on the royal’s official Twitter page said Charles tested positive on Thursday morning.




					www.politico.com


----------



## FrancSevin




----------



## FrancSevin

Grandson was tested again and for the third time tested positive. Also the school mandated masking.

This despite his "shot" and so-called natural immunity.

What it means is the cold Cathy and I suffered two weeks ago was probably the omicron strain.

We both had common cold symptoms and, in addition, bloody noses.


----------



## Ceee

FrancSevin said:


> What it means is the cold Cathy and I suffered two weeks ago was probably the omicron strain.
> 
> We both had common cold symptoms and, in addition, bloody noses.


That's exactly why I think testing is so important.  You need to know if you're infectious.

Here's a little scenario in my family.  My sister had a Christmas gathering of about 15-16 people.  None of them felt sick or had symptoms. Three adults and two kids started showing symptoms shortly after.  Turned out that both kids tested positive.  Two of the adults did too. One adult was diagnosed with a respiratory infection.


----------



## m1west

I have had a salty taste in my mouth since Monday, some phlegm and this morning I had no voice. I feel fine, took a rapid test and it is negative. I will wait a few days and test again. Its warming up here nearly 80 daytime. things are blooming, so it could be allergies or a regular cold??


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> . . .  so it could be allergies or a regular cold??


There are 100 things it could be.  That is the problem.

But the reality is that Omicron/Covid and the new 'stealth' variant of Omicron, are far more mild.  

Honestly I stopped posting most medical stories here simply because it seems like there is no longer much need.

By now we know a few things.

People with multiple comorbidities, especially those of advanced age, need to be very careful.  Healthy people are at very little risk.  People with modest health issues may get sick but if they have been vaccinated they will likely just be uncomfortable and ill for a week to 10 days.  

We also know that vitamin D is effective at preventing serious illness, especially if supplemented with modest levels of K and Zinc.  Budesidone (sp?) is effective treatment for respiratory therapy if covid gets into your lungs.  Ivermectin is very likely effective and more studies seem to indicate that the evidence to support that is sound.


----------



## FrancSevin

Melensdad said:


> There are 100 things it could be.  That is the problem.
> 
> But the reality is that Omicron/Covid and the new 'stealth' variant of Omicron, are far more mild.
> 
> Honestly I stopped posting most medical stories here simply because it seems like there is no longer much need.
> 
> By now we know a few things.
> 
> People with multiple comorbidities, especially those of advanced age, need to be very careful.  Healthy people are at very little risk.  People with modest health issues may get sick but if they have been vaccinated they will likely just be uncomfortable and ill for a week to 10 days.
> 
> We also know that vitamin D is effective at preventing serious illness, especially if supplemented with modest levels of K and Zinc.  Budesidone (sp?) is effective treatment for respiratory therapy if covid gets into your lungs.  Ivermectin is very likely effective and more studies seem to indicate that the evidence to support that is sound.


Like so many actually honest experts on the matter on either medical practice, or political practice, have declared for the last two years,,,; the decisions about treatments and alternate prevention therapies', should have been left to the descression of doctors and their patients.

The government's announcement that it was "here to help and you had better do what we order," should have brought questions from the entire media. Protecting the people from an overbearing/overreaching government is why we have a free press.

That's their job!!!!

Instead, they either hid from view, maligned alternate and competing information, or outright lied, to be in alignment with the policies of one political party.


----------



## Melensdad

FrancSevin said:


> Like so many actually honest experts on the matter on either medical practice, or political practice, have declared for the last two years,,,; the decisions about treatments and alternate prevention therapies', should have been left to the descression of doctors and their patients.
> 
> The government's announcement that it was "here to help and you had better do what we order," should have brought questions from the entire media. Protecting the people from an overbearing/overreaching government is why we have a free press.
> 
> That's their job!!!!
> 
> Instead, they either hid from view, maligned alternate and competing information, or outright lied, to be in alignment with the policies of one political party.


----------



## pirate_girl

Melensdad said:


> But the reality is that Omicron/Covid and the new 'stealth' variant of Omicron, are far more mild.
> 
> 
> 
> People with multiple comorbidities, especially those of advanced age, need to be very careful.


Yes.
A thousand times, yes.


----------



## pirate_girl

Bye bye Rona.

COLUMBUS, Ohio — For the fourth straight week in a row, Ohio health officials began Thursday's COVID-19 briefing with good news: Cases continue to decline across the state.
In some parts of the the state, that decline has even accelerated, Ohio Department of Health Director Dr. Bruce Vanderhoff said.
In January, Cuyahoga County health officials reported a rate of 3,000 cases per 100,000 residents. One month later and that case rate has now dropped to 189 cases per 100,000.

Since reaching a pandemic high in mid-January, statewide COVID-19 hospitalizations have steadily decreased; down by more than half as of Wednesday, said Vanderhoff.
In the last week alone, health officials reported an overall 18% decline in hospitalizations.
"A further sign that the omicron variant is, in fact, receding about as quickly as it arose," said Vanderhoff.









						Ohio's COVID hospitalizations drop by more than 50% in 1 month
					

In the last week alone, health officials reported an overall 18% decline in hospitalizations.




					www.10tv.com


----------



## pirate_girl

Let's take a look back, when where I'm employed was a great concern.
September 2020.
Fast forward to today.









						Henry County reports increased COVID-19 cases at long-term care facility
					

Northcrest Rehab and Nursing Center in Napoleon has 40 staff members and 60 residents who as of Wednesday afternoon all tested positive for COVID-19. Eight people tied to this facility died due to the virus and this is all according to the Henry County Health Department.




					www.13abc.com


----------



## bczoom

I don't know if this is true.


----------



## Melensdad

Brian that is widely reported on very unreliable websites that actually quote each other as their sources.

For what it is worth, in early 2020 that stock was trading in the $22 to $24 per share range.  He sold for just under $168 per share to get just over $3 Million.  That is a far cry from the $400 Million claim and it also makes sense that he'd sell for roughly a $145 per share profit before then end of Covid given that it looks like Covid is pretty much done with the world as a pandemic.  The stock will likely fall over time.

Go to the financial papers and you will find this, because when insiders sell, they have to disclose the sales!


----------



## m1west

Whatever I have, I woke up this morning nearly normal, just a little phlegm


----------



## echo

We had the early strain.
Dry cough, dry mouth.
Coughed all the time and it hurt
Got weak


----------



## Melensdad

2 bits of Covid news.

Queen Elizabeth has a mild case of Covid.

And now another study on Ivermectin.  This one saying it does not work.

This one used infected people, over the age of 50, with comorbidities.  So it seems to apply to people like me.  That makes it interesting to me personally.  I've always wanted more studies on Ivermectin, I lean toward it possibly being effective, but remain somewhat skeptical.  As I'm coaching at the Junior Olympics and still have 4 more events to go here I don't have time to dig into the actual study.  I saw the article, here is part of it.









						New study finds Ivermectin ineffective in treating COVID-19
					

Patients administered Ivermectin had a "notably higher" incidence of adverse events.




					www.jpost.com
				




Ivermectin is ineffective in preventing severe illness in COVID-19 patients, according to a new peer-reviewed study published in _The Journal of the American Medical Association_ (JAMA) on Friday.​​The open-label study examined 490 high-risk patients with COVID-19 at 20 public hospitals and a quarantine center in Malaysia. The patients were 50 years and older with confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infections, comorbidities and mild-to-moderate disease. The patients were split into a control group that received standard of care without Ivermectin and a group that received standard of care plus Ivermectin.​​Researchers gave trial participants in the Ivermectin group a five-day course of the drug, consisting of 0.4mg/kg body weight each day.​


----------



## pirate_girl

Her Majesty is said to have a very stoic response to her diagnosis planned.

Poor thing, I mean I know she's 95 years old, but in recent months new photos of her are shocking.
Very thin and looks even tinier.


----------



## waybomb




----------



## FrancSevin

You mean something like "testing" before giving it, much less forcing it, on humans.

That's just crazy talk from a right winger Trumpster terrorist..


----------



## NorthernRedneck

And here's some interesting covid related news. 









						'Potential risks': Health Canada issues advisory warning about COVID-19 Rapid Antigen Test kits after dozens of calls to poison control centres
					

'Accidental exposure' reported in some 50 cases




					www.thestar.com
				




Even the tests aren't safe now.  

For what it's worth, we had our run in with the big bad covid bug last week. Our youngest daughter started out with pink eye on Sunday. On Monday, she woke up with a sore throat, cough, and runny nose. I had the same thing. We tested everyone in the house (all 8 of us) and she was the only one positive. So we set her up in the front family room and that's where she stayed for 5 days. She finally tested negative last Friday. We had everyone else stay home all last week as well. All is well though I still have a sore throat despite testing negative three times last week. 

As for restrictions, most have now been lifted in Ontario though we still need masks. But our premier Doug Ford stated that we're close to removing the masks as well. Possibly after March break in two weeks.


----------



## mla2ofus

Did Ukraine miraculously suddenly cure covid for good??


----------



## Ironman

mla2ofus said:


> Did Ukraine miraculously suddenly cure covid for good??


It’s kinda funny how that works.


----------



## pirate_girl

Obama got the Rona.



			https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/03/13/barack-obama-tests-positive-covid19-coronavirus/


----------



## Ironman

pirate_girl said:


> Obama got the Rona.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/03/13/barack-obama-tests-positive-covid19-coronavirus/


Wow. He must not have gotten the jab and 6 boosters.


----------



## pirate_girl

The World Health Organization are now saying that the war in Ukraine could make the pandemic worse.
CNN are reporting this.
Of course..
I'll just leave it at that.


----------



## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

They will bring back the pandemic just before the mid-terms so they can justify more mail in voting.  This is the only way the Democrats can keep up those landslide victories.


----------



## Melensdad

And more information that Ivermectin works.  Compelling study sizes with compelling results.


----------



## FrancSevin

Melensdad said:


> And more information that Ivermectin works.  Compelling study sizes with compelling results.




Real doctors who deal directly with patients and monitor medications in real time, were told by a guy who works in a laboratory, _"this was a hoax drug. You cannot use it."_

 So please, can someone tell us why Ivermectin was poohed and banned?


----------



## waybomb

How many people did the Democrats kill because of their dedication that Ivermectin did not work?


----------



## Melensdad

Hillary Clinton has Covid.  









						Hillary Clinton says she has tested positive for COVID-19
					

Clinton said former President Bill Clinton has tested negative and that he will quarantine "until our household is fully in the clear."




					www.cbsnews.com


----------



## NorthernRedneck

Melensdad said:


> Hillary Clinton has Covid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hillary Clinton says she has tested positive for COVID-19
> 
> 
> Clinton said former President Bill Clinton has tested negative and that he will quarantine "until our household is fully in the clear."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cbsnews.com



Talk about a case of the cure being worse than the illness. Can you imagine being quarantined in a room with Hillary Clinton for 5 days?


----------



## FrancSevin

waybomb said:


> How many people did the Democrats kill because of their dedication that Ivermectin did not work?


Can you say,,,,?
SUBREPTION
Pronunciation: sê-BREP-shên
Hear it! <https://www.alphadictionary.com/sounds/subreption.mp3>
Part of Speech: Noun
Meaning: 1. The deceitful concealment or obfuscation of facts in order to persuade. 2. An inference drawn from such a misrepresentation.


----------



## Ceee

*Bring on the Stupid:*









						Man allegedly got up to 90 COVID vaccine shots so he could sell the vaccination cards
					

The man in the eastern German city of Magdeburg is accused of getting the injections so he could sell the vaccine cards that went with them. No word on impact on his health.




					www.cbsnews.com
				




_"Berlin_ — A 60-year-old man allegedly had himself vaccinated against COVID-19 dozens of times in Germany in order to sell forged vaccination cards with real vaccine batch numbers to people not wanting to get vaccinated themselves."

"The man from the eastern German city of Magdeburg, whose name was not released in line with German privacy rules, is said to have received up to 90 shots against COVID-19 at vaccination centers in the eastern state of Saxony for months until criminal police caught him this month, the German news agency dpa reported Sunday."

"The suspect wasn't detained but is under investigation for unauthorized issuance of vaccination cards and document forgery, dpa reported."


----------



## pirate_girl

NorthernRedneck said:


> Talk about a case of the cure being worse than the illness. Can you imagine being quarantined in a room with Hillary Clinton for 5 days?





Melensdad said:


> Hillary Clinton has Covid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hillary Clinton says she has tested positive for COVID-19
> 
> 
> Clinton said former President Bill Clinton has tested negative and that he will quarantine "until our household is fully in the clear."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cbsnews.com


Now Pelosi has it.
Hmmm..








						House Speaker Nancy Pelosi tests positive for COVID-19
					

The speaker is fully vaccinated and received her booster shot, a spokesman for Pelosi tweeted.




					www.cbsnews.com


----------



## FrancSevin

Ceee said:


> *Bring on the Stupid:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Man allegedly got up to 90 COVID vaccine shots so he could sell the vaccination cards
> 
> 
> The man in the eastern German city of Magdeburg is accused of getting the injections so he could sell the vaccine cards that went with them. No word on impact on his health.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cbsnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _"Berlin_ — A 60-year-old man allegedly had himself vaccinated against COVID-19 dozens of times in Germany in order to sell forged vaccination cards with real vaccine batch numbers to people not wanting to get vaccinated themselves."
> 
> "The man from the eastern German city of Magdeburg, whose name was not released in line with German privacy rules, is said to have received up to 90 shots against COVID-19 at vaccination centers in the eastern state of Saxony for months until criminal police caught him this month, the German news agency dpa reported Sunday."
> 
> "The suspect wasn't detained but is under investigation for unauthorized issuance of vaccination cards and document forgery, dpa reported."


I do not wish ill on anyone but would it not be hilarious if, despite the multiple vaccinations, he caught the COVID?

On the other hand, this may be a casual proof that the $160 Billion was spent on a shot that had no medical effect, good or bad, whatsoever.


----------



## Melensdad

FrancSevin said:


> I do not wish ill on anyone but would it not be hilarious if, despite the multiple vaccinations, he caught the COVID?
> 
> On the other hand, this may be a casual proof that *the $160 Billion was spent on a shot that had no medical effect, good or bad, whatsoever.*


Lots of evidence that it reduced severity, hospitalization rates and death rates due to Covid.  

I'm not saying it was worth $160 Billion, I know it was not worth the destruction of the economy and lives of billions of people, I think a shot for the vulnerable was well worth getting _(I'm one of those vulnerable)_ but I never advocated for masking kids_ (under 12) _or making shots mandatory for anyone.


----------



## FrancSevin

Melensdad said:


> Lots of evidence that it reduced severity, hospitalization rates and death rates due to Covid.
> 
> I'm not saying it was worth $160 Billion, I know it was not worth the destruction of the economy and lives of billions of people, I think a shot for the vulnerable was well worth getting _(I'm one of those vulnerable)_ but I never advocated for masking kids_ (under 12) _or making shots mandatory for anyone.


Lots of evidence to the contrary also.








						Most MN COVID cases now among vaccinated. The shot is still worth it.
					

Expectations about the protection vaccines provide continues to evolve. Vaccination was never a promise of total immunity.




					www.twincities.com
				




And, of course, a walk back that the vaccine would not protect everyone.

Being told, that if I get the shot, my symptoms would be less severe is very hard to prove.  Harder to believe.

You'll note, I called it "casual proof."


----------



## Melensdad

FrancSevin said:


> Lots of evidence to the contrary also.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most MN COVID cases now among vaccinated. The shot is still worth it.
> 
> 
> Expectations about the protection vaccines provide continues to evolve. Vaccination was never a promise of total immunity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.twincities.com


Specifically what was refuted?   The link will not allow me to read the article without subscribing to the website.

The fact that death rates among vaccinated are lower? 
The fact that long term affects among vaccinated are lower? 
The fact that hospitalizations among vaccinated are lower?


----------



## FrancSevin

Melensdad said:


> Specifically what was refuted?   The link will not allow me to read the article without subscribing to the website.
> 
> The fact that death rates among vaccinated are lower?
> The fact that long term affects among vaccinated are lower?
> The fact that hospitalizations among vaccinated are lower?


Yeah, I hate that.
Sorry.

I also hate that we cannot trust what anybody, including our government, tells us.
Are the death rates lower?
Are the long term affects lower?
IDK.


The article says death rates amoung the vaccinated are higher.
Infection rates are also higher.

Media sources like FOX and CNN give opposing "facts" about it as well.

I guess it comes down to whom you trust


----------



## chowderman

whom you trust . . .
well, based on their revelations to date, the CDC does not rank all to high on any truth/disclosure/transpancy scale.
so there is that.

I also find it curious how fast people forget . . . when the covid thing was _first_ announced/known/published, the China liars advised
 (1) it could not be spread person to person 
and 
(2) the elderly and compromised were most at risk.


----------



## echo

No need to worry about the guvment, they will screw up things all by themselves.


----------



## FrancSevin

echo said:


> No need to worry about the guvment, they will screw up things all by themselves.


WE are supposed to be the government.

THEY are the people we elected, supposedly.

SO, the screw up is on us.


----------



## pirate_girl

It's Daddy DeWine's turn.



			Gov. Mike DeWine diagnosed with COVID-19
		


In a release, the governor’s office said DeWine, who is 75, had mild symptoms, including a runny nose, headache, body aches and a sore throat. Per Centers for Disease Control and Prevention protocols, he is in quarantine.

DeWine’s personal physician diagnosed him with the virus and he received antibody treatment on Friday, according to the governor’s office.

The governor’s office said first lady Fran DeWine did not have any symptoms and had tested negative. Both DeWine’s are fully vaccinated and have received two booster shots.


----------



## tommu56

Its affection ports they are shutting down


link below

What Does the Closing of the Port of Ningbo Mean for Shipping? | What's Going on With Shipping?


----------



## m1west




----------



## m1west

And now its all going to come out, was also on cnn


----------



## tommu56

How would you like to be stuck in dry dock and Shanghai closes down 

day 50 in ship yard and no work being done crew is confined to ship with no end in sight.


----------



## Melensdad

This thread has not been updated in a while because Covid really hasn't generated much real news.

But there has been an uptick in cases over the past month, and it has been identified in the UK as a new unique variant.  Seems to be highly resistant to BOTH vaccines and natural immunity from a prior infection.  But it also doesn't seem to be as serious.


Full story at the link, the story headline seems concerning but the story is far less alarming:   https://sports.yahoo.com/news/may-covid-variant-scientists-dreading-072005463.html
​This May Be the COVID Variant Scientists Are Dreading​Mon, June 20, 2022, 2:20 AM






Photo Illustration by Thomas Levinson/The Daily Beast/Getty


*COVID-19 cases are increasing again in the United Kingdom, potentially signaling a future surge in infections in the United States *and other countries.

A pair of new subvariants of the dominant Omicron variant—BA.4 and BA.5—appear to be driving the uptick in cases in the U.K. Worryingly, these subvariants seem to partially dodge antibodies from past infection or vaccination, making them more transmissible than other forms of the SARS-CoV-2 virus.

There are also some suggestions that the new subvariants have evolved to target the lungs—unlike Omicron, which usually resulted in a less dangerous infection of the upper respiratory tract.

*But there’s good news amid the bad. While cases are going up in the U.K., hospitalizations and deaths are increasing more slowly or even declining so far*. “This could mean higher transmissible variants, BA.4 or 5, are in play, [and] these variants are much less severe,”


----------



## m1west

I didn't see any mention of how therapeutics work on this variant, coming from Yahoo I'm sure there are a few omissions.


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> I didn't see any mention of how therapeutics work on this variant, coming from Yahoo I'm sure there are a few omissions.


I only posted a small portion of the article, but reading the whole article, there was no mention of treatment.  One is left to presume that it is treated exactly the same way as other variants.


----------



## echo

How about the flu is spreading, what's new.


----------



## Melensdad

No way to tell how accurate this study is, it is published in a legitimate medical journal that is peer reviewed and well respected.  

One should keep in mind, if this study is remotely accurate, that President Trump should be heralded as a major factor in saving lives.  His "operation warp speed" vaccine program accelerated the development of the best and most effective vaccines available.

FULL STORY AT THE LINK:








						COVID-19 vaccines saved 20 million lives during first year of distribution, study
					

The study measures "how much worse the pandemic could have been if we did not have these vaccines," leading scientist said




					justthenews.com
				




COVID-19 vaccines saved 20 million lives during first year of distribution, study​The study measures "how much worse the pandemic could have been if we did not have these vaccines," leading scientist said​COVID-19 vaccines saved nearly 20 million lives during their first year, according to a study published this week.​​Oliver Watson of the Imperial College London led the new modeling study about the vaccines. He called the potential outcome of the last 18-months should the vaccine not have been available "catastrophic."​​His modeling study findings were published in Lancet Infectious Diseases and reportedly "quantify just how much worse the pandemic could have been if we did not have these vaccines."​​Researchers used data from 185 countries to estimate that the vaccines prevented about 4.2 million virus deaths in India, 1.9 million in the United States, 1 million in Brazil, more than 631,000 in France and half-a-million in the U.K.​​More lives, about 600,000, would have been saved had the World Health Organization's target of 40% vaccination coverage by the end of 2021 been met, say the researchers.​​The study, which found that 19.8 million COVID deaths were prevented by vaccines, bases its estimations on how many more deaths than usual occurred during the time period. . . ​


----------



## UberBastid

Melensdad said:


> Covid really hasn't generated much real news.
> 
> But there has been an uptick in cases over the past month, and it has been identified in the UK as a new unique variant. Seems to be highly resistant to BOTH vaccines and natural immunity from a prior infection. But it also doesn't seem to be as serious.


In the last three months, I have contracted The China Virus.  Also, my step son and his whole family have it right now (four people, ages 35 to 15).
We all experienced the same symptoms.
Muscle aches, low fever, fatigue.  It's a bad flu.
We all have had our shots and boosters.

Virus weaken as they mutate.  AIDS did it.   Remember when AIDS was a death sentence?   Fast too.

It's the flu now.  
And for anyone who is compromised - there are drugs to treat it.

.


----------



## Melensdad

UberBastid said:


> . . .
> And for anyone who is compromised - there are drugs to treat it.


Many of the treatments seem to be ineffective, but this is really where the research should be working. The vaccine doesn't stop it from spreading.  The vaccine doesn't stop you from getting it.  The vaccine does seem to be effective at REDUCING the seriousness of the virus.

The government is now pushing to vaccinate little kids and infants, which I simply cannot wrap my head around given how mild the cases seem to be in children.  

It seems to me that the government should be spending its efforts on effective treatment for the compromised people.  That is where help is actually needed.


----------



## echo

Do they give lib kids the jab?


----------



## Melensdad

Looks like we are seeing another wave of Coronavirus.

The Omicron BA.5 variant.

It is highly transmissible.  Rapidly spreading across the US, Europe and presumably the world.  It is outpacing BA.4, which is also a variant still spreading.





Hospitalizations seem to be showing that people are admitted WITH Covid rather than being admitted FOR Covid.  Ventilator use seems to be reasonable stable, no uptick.  Most people are not hospitalized for this variant.  Most people treat it with Tylenol or other over the counter meds.

New cases in the UK up 40%.  Hospitalizations are up but deaths are down.  Individual risk appears to be LOWER.  Again, the folks who are immunocompromised, obese, high blood pressure, pulmonary issues are most at risk.  People over 70 years old are also at much higher risk.

BA.5 is able to re-infect people EASILY so natural immunity from BA.5 basically doesn't exist.  The original vaccines are also pretty much worthless against it.  Very likely a NEW vaccine will be needed as the efficacy of current vaccines against the mutations is minimal.  A new vaccine should be considered for any at risk people.

And to review older posts, probably the most effective thing you can do to minimize the effects is to take a daily dose of Vitamin D.  I personally take 5000iu each day.  Vitamin D needs to be taken daily over weeks as it slowly builds in the blood stream so to get any health benefit against Covid it needs to already be in your system prior to infection by the virus.

Not linking any of the other articles, but here is Dr Campbell:


----------



## UberBastid

Yawn.
The last time I got covid (I am almost 70) I was sick for two weeks.  It sucked.  I felt AWFUL.   
Then I got well.

THEN my grandkids family got it (about two weeks ago)...   They were sick, felt like shit.  Laid  around for a week.  Got well.

THEN my friend who had JUST donated a kidney (two months ago)  to her son got it.  Doctors jumped ALL OVER THAT SHIT.  Gave her a cockatiel of anti viral drugs and ... she felt like shit for a week and got over it.

NOBODY DIED.

Tell me .. how concerned should I be about getting this bug ... now ...


----------



## Melensdad

UberBastid said:


> Yawn.
> The last time I got covid (I am almost 70) I was sick for two weeks.  It sucked.  I felt AWFUL.
> Then I got well.
> 
> THEN my grandkids family got it (about two weeks ago)...   They were sick, felt like shit.  Laid  around for a week.  Got well.
> 
> THEN my friend who had JUST donated a kidney (two months ago)  to her son got it.  Doctors jumped ALL OVER THAT SHIT.  Gave her a cockatiel of anti viral drugs and ... she felt like shit for a week and got over it.
> 
> NOBODY DIED.
> 
> Tell me .. how concerned should I be about getting this bug ... now ...


As I have said, pretty consistently for most of the duration of this disease, if you are in one of the "risk" groups then you should be very concerned but if you are not a high risk person then statistics show it will pass and you will recover.


----------



## echo

We already had that.
My doctor quit asking about shot records.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

Up here, companies and organizations that were essentially firing people for not getting the vaccines are now lifting the vaccination requirements in order to work there or participate in group activities such as scouts and other organized activities for kids. Makes me wonder how effective the vaccines are. We are all vaccinated. Covid still went through our home. Our friends down the street are anti vaxers. Covid went through their house. Their symptoms were no worse than ours.


----------



## Ross 650

Howdy,
I am 82 years old and had Covid last year.  I had no vaccines nor will I.  It seems to be a political stunt for the vaccines.  Who is paying for them?  Why do all the vaccinated ones get Covid?  Masks do not work yet we were told that we had to wear them.  My only symptom from Covid is lack of taste.  With some of the food that I eat, that isnt too bad!!!  Have a goodun!!!


----------



## Melensdad

NorthernRedneck said:


> . . . *Makes me wonder how effective the vaccines are. We are all vaccinated. Covid still went through our home.* Our friends down the street are anti vaxers. Covid went through their house. Their symptoms were no worse than ours.


My brother and sister-in-law both work in a hospital.  Their personal observations are that the NON-vaccinated tended to get sicker and more often.  They tended to end up in the hospital at higher rates.

But remember, 95% of the people, vaccinated or not, recovered without any issues.  The 5% that needed treatment of some sort tended to skew to the NON-Vax'd being in worse shape.  This was especially true with the original Covid up through the Delta strain.  High risk people were, and remain, the real group who are vulnerable.

I know people who died.  I know people who barely knew they had it at all.


----------



## EastTexFrank

Melensdad said:


> I know people who died.  I know people who barely knew they had it at all.



... and I know people who are still suffering from the after affects two years after catching it.  

I know people who have been vaxed, boosted twice and still caught COVID, some of them twice.  I am one of the high-risk people but unless someone can prove to my satisfaction that the vaccine works on the latest variants, my vaxing days are over.   If the numbers start to rise again in my area, I'll rely on isolation to keep me safe ... and vitamin D.


----------



## Melensdad

EastTexFrank said:


> ... *unless someone can prove to my satisfaction that the vaccine works on the latest variants*, my vaxing days are over.  * If the numbers start to rise again in my area*, I'll rely on isolation to keep me safe ... and vitamin D.


The numbers are rising everywhere for cases.  Deaths are actually dropping as a % of cases.  So it appears that variants BA.4 and BA.5 are even less less fatal, but hospitalizations are up, ventilator use is also up.  Seems like "Long Covid" cases are up too.

There is zero evidence *that I can find* that says the vaccines do anything for the newest variants.

There is a LOT of GOOD evidence that the original vaccine saved a lot of lives and also reduced the illness severity in millions of people.  That evidence is lacking with the new variants.


----------



## pirate_girl

As of last evening up until the last hour or so, a dozen residents and 5 staff members have tested positive.
This variant isn't playing around.
Vaxxed or not, it's spreading rapidly.


----------



## chowderman

the "new" variants are also much less "lethal" than the original developed by Dr. Fauci & Co.
a virus that is hugely lethal becomes ineffective - because dead hosts do not spread disease . . .

harken ye back to the beginning:  
China:  not to worry Part 1, this is only dangerous to the elderly and immuno-compromised.
China:  not to worry Part 2, this cannot be transmitted from human to human.

it has been a huge pack of lies from Day Zero.

since the recent Covid variants are insufficiently fatal, we now are headed into a Monkey Pox Pandemic, in order to mail in hundreds of thousands of unverified votes.


----------



## Ross 650

Beware of the vaccines and boosters.  Our president had all of them and look what it did to his brain.  It is not functioning!!!


----------



## pirate_girl

chowderman said:


> the "new" variants are also much less "lethal" than the original developed by Dr. Fauci & Co.
> a virus that is hugely lethal becomes ineffective - because dead hosts do not spread disease . . .
> 
> harken ye back to the beginning:
> China:  not to worry Part 1, this is only dangerous to the elderly and immuno-compromised.
> China:  not to worry Part 2, this cannot be transmitted from human to human.
> 
> it has been a huge pack of lies from Day Zero.
> 
> since the recent Covid variants are insufficiently fatal, we now are headed into a Monkey Pox Pandemic, in order to mail in hundreds of thousands of unverified votes.


Well we're just taking precautions.
By the way, tested twice myself last night and the beginning of my shift and then again this morning.
Neg!


----------



## m1west

Son got it again a couple weeks ago, not vaxed, sore throat and some fatigue for a few days. Daughter got it for the first time a couple weeks ago 38 years old not vaxed 30-40# overweight. congestion and fatigue for a few days. I was exposed to my son, talking closely for 10 minutes inside a vehicle he drove all day and I touched everything. Nothing. That said about a month ago I felt extra tired for a week or so and chalked it up to working too much, I may have had it then?? Not the same experience as when we had the Delta last year. That one was rough.


----------



## pirate_girl

Marty, this variant is milder, but it's very fast spreading.
Our first resident to test positive in months was one of our ladies who had been in the hospital long term and ended up on a vent.
She's sick to be sure, but nothing like before.
It was astounding how rapidly this one just took off within 1 day.
Last I heard we are now at 18 residents and 9 staff.
Yeah, it's like a viscous head cold in a lot of ways.
No panic, we're simply being cautious.


----------



## UberBastid

pirate_girl said:


> As of last evening up until the last hour or so, a dozen residents and 5 staff members have tested positive.
> This variant isn't playing around.
> Vaxxed or not, it's spreading rapidly.


So what?
Tested positive for a bug that gives you the sniffles, a low grade fever?  
BFD.

I had Covid for breakfast - was good with brown sugar.


.


----------



## pirate_girl

UberBastid said:


> So what?
> Tested positive for a bug that gives you the sniffles, a low grade fever?
> BFD.
> 
> I had Covid for breakfast - was good with brown sugar.
> 
> 
> .


YOU are a fucking asshole.


----------



## Melensdad

UberBastid said:


> So what?
> Tested positive for a bug that gives you the sniffles, a low grade fever?
> BFD.
> 
> I had Covid for breakfast - was good with brown sugar.
> 
> 
> .


Covid is a mild illness for many.

It is life threatening for many others.  

To dismiss it is potentially fatal.  And clearly many have died from it.  

This thread is not to discuss the myths about it, but rather to discuss the real problems.  Most people recover, but we are seeing a lot of long haul problems and there is still a lot we don't know about long term effects.  

Let's try to keep this thread civil, we are not in the DEBATE areas.

Good friend of mine, 67, is miserable with Covid right now.  I know young professionals who had long haul covid and were unable to conintue their careers.  I have many friends who lost loved ones.  I have friends who are care givers in nursing homes, one of is a therapist in a veterans home ... these are people who see people get sick and die daily from covid.


----------



## Melensdad

chowderman said:


> the "new" variants are also much less "lethal" than the original ...


Please define 'much less "lethal'" in quantitative terms that matter to at risk populations like the very people that P.G. has in her care home.

Seems to me it is less lethal to the average population but spreads far more quickly.

The at risk populations are still very much at risk.

So since 1) people are acting carelessly around the at risk population, 2) the dominant BA.5 variant spreads far more easily, 3) the at risk populations still die at high rates.

*Major risk factors:*  Diabetes, over weight/obesity, Vitamin D deficiency, pulmonary diseases, autoimmune issues...


----------



## m1west

I would think as a comparison, anyone that would be at high risk for Pneumonia would also still be a high risk for the BA5


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> I would think as a comparison, anyone that would be at high risk for Pneumonia would also still be a high risk for the BA5


YES and NO

If you are high risk of death for pneumonia then you are probably at a high risk of death for BA.5.  So in that part of the comparison we are in agreement.

BUT, it is very difficult to get pneumonia from another person, we don't spread it to each other.  BA.5 is very transmissible and consequently if people are not vary careful around high risk individuals they can have a mild case, but spread it to someone who will suffer greatly if they catch it.  So the SPREADING issue is where the comparison to Pneumonia is not valid.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

A friend of ours caught it a few weeks ago. He went down quickly. Died 4 days after catching it. Mind you, he previously had a heart transplant and his body was not strong. But he would have still been here if it wasn't for covid.


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> YES and NO
> 
> If you are high risk of death for pneumonia then you are probably at a high risk of death for BA.5.  So in that part of the comparison we are in agreement.
> 
> BUT, it is very difficult to get pneumonia from another person, we don't spread it to each other.  BA.5 is very transmissible and consequently if people are not vary careful around high risk individuals they can have a mild case, but spread it to someone who will suffer greatly if they catch it.  So the SPREADING issue is where the comparison to Pneumonia is not valid.


Didn't mention spreading because I know its highly contagious, point is if Pneumonia would be a bad thing for someone then I believe BA5 would also be a problem.


----------



## m1west

I think it can  be so mild for some that you don't even know you had it. Like Bob said its highly transmissible. That why when my son got it and I was in direct contact in a closed space, I didn't get it. My Daughter got it a couple weeks ago in the same house with grand daughter and son in law, they didn't get it. OR at some point recently they did get it but didn't know it??


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> I think it can  be so mild for some that you don't even know you had it. Like Bob said its highly transmissible. That why when my son got it and I was in direct contact in a closed space, I didn't get it. My Daughter got it a couple weeks ago in the same house with grand daughter and son in law, they didn't get it. OR at some point recently they did get it but didn't know it??


It is very possible that they had it and did not know it.

I had a moderate sore throat for a week at the start of August.  No other symptoms.  Didn't ever think it was possible it could have been Covid.  Still don't know if it was Covid.  But I was talking to a doctor who said that it probably was a mild case of Covid.  I was exposed to it, along with another guy at the fencing club, he is still home sick, but getting better.


----------



## m1west

That said when I was in Washington a month or so ago I had 3-4 days where I felt tired and chalked it up to a 7 day work schedule. Yesterday I had a sore throat all day and no other  symptoms and its gone today. The local school here was close last week due to an outbreak. I am now thinking I am getting it and beating it back before it takes hold?? I have no other explanation.


----------



## Melensdad

Honestly I have no clue if you are beating it back.  I don't know if I had it.  Despite what the doctor said, I still doubt that I had it because I was able to exercise, take long walks, wasn't fatigued, no headaches, no joint pains, etc.


----------



## m1west

Melensdad said:


> Honestly I have no clue if you are beating it back.  I don't know if I had it.  Despite what the doctor said, I still doubt that I had it because I was able to exercise, take long walks, wasn't fatigued, no headaches, no joint pains, etc.


Same with my son and daughter. only the concern for others kept them down. Both said they could have worked no problem. A little fatigue, nothing like Delta last year for us. Its still amazes me that the results from getting it can be so wildly different, depending on co morbidities or??


----------



## Melensdad

m1west said:


> . . . the results from getting it can be so wildly different, depending on co morbidities or??


I think, but can't prove, that Vitamin D levels are a huge factor in how the body reacts to Covid.  

There is a lot of data that shows that areas with lots of natural sunshine (_1 key source of Vitamin D_) have lower rates of complications, lower rates of deaths (_adjusted for co-morbidities & age_), etc.   Some hospitals were tracking people who came in with Covid and in blood tests noted that people with high levels of "D" in their blood had fewer complications and less severe outcomes.  But none of those are studies, all are just observational.


----------



## UberBastid

Maybe that's why it is tearing thru the middle east right now.
I hear their women have trouble with D deficiency because they have to be covered head to toe and are not getting any sunlight to their skin.
That would possibly make them more sensitive to The China Virus.


----------



## pirate_girl

Our numbers are rising among our/MY residents.
We now have a covid unit again, which is something I truly thought was a thing of the past.
More staff members as well.
I still don't think there is a reason to panic, but we are being cautious.
That said, I picked up some shifts so I can be there to cover for the ones who've tested positive today.
I don't feel like a hero any longer.
I feel like a nurse who is doing her part until this damn thing goes away, which it never will.


----------



## pirate_girl

NorthernRedneck said:


> A friend of ours caught it a few weeks ago. He went down quickly. Died 4 days after catching it. Mind you, he previously had a heart transplant and his body was not strong. But he would have still been here if it wasn't for covid.


Brian, my son Ty recently bought a decal to put on the back window of his tow truck in remembrance of his friend MJ who passed from covid.
Remember?
He was diabetic and overweight etc..
I'll find that post shortly and show you all.
He put it on Facebook.


----------



## Ironman

pirate_girl said:


> Our numbers are rising among our/MY residents.
> We now have a covid unit again, which is something I truly thought was a thing of the past.
> More staff members as well.
> I still don't think there is a reason to panic, but we are being cautious.
> That said, I picked up some shifts so I can be there to cover for the ones who've tested positive today.
> I don't feel like a hero any longer.
> I feel like a nurse who is doing her part until this damn thing goes away, which it never will.


Hang tough PG, and thank you! 
Retirement kicking your ass!


----------



## pirate_girl

Ironman said:


> Hang tough PG, and thank you!
> Retirement kicking your ass!


Yeah right lol
Thanks Mark.


----------



## pirate_girl

Brian..


----------



## pirate_girl

I just tested positive at 9:35 this evening.
Son of a bitch.
I can't say I feel sick, just weak.


----------



## Melensdad

pirate_girl said:


> I just tested positive at 9:35 this evening.
> Son of a bitch.
> I can't say I feel sick, just weak.


Hopefully you recover quickly and just end up with a mild case.

Co-founder of my fencing club, tested positive 11 days ago.  Still positive and still symptomatic today.  He was pretty sick for 4 days, now he says its just a nuisance.  Still has a cough and congestion.  During the worst of it his body ached badly, ran a modest fever (under 101), sore throat, etc.


----------



## EastTexFrank

pirate_girl said:


> I just tested positive at 9:35 this evening.
> Son of a bitch.
> I can't say I feel sick, just weak.



 You do everything that you need to do to get better.  We love you girl.


----------



## Lenny

pirate_girl said:


> I just tested positive at 9:35 this evening.
> Son of a bitch.
> I can't say I feel sick, just weak.


I hope it's a mild case.  Please keep us updated.


----------



## pirate_girl

So far, it's just an overwhelming fatigue and lingering headache.
Last night I had a temp.
If this is as bad as it's going to get, it won't be bad.


----------



## Lenny

I only had a fever and chills for 36 hours in Oct. 2020.


----------



## pirate_girl

I tested twice this morning and am negative.
Covid for myself was a headache and fatigue.


----------



## Ross 650

Congrats on whipping the democrat virus!!!  The only lingering symptoms that I have are lack of taste or smell.  That isnt all that bad because I can now eat cheaper foods and it tastes like the better ones.  Have a goodun!!!!!


----------



## UberBastid

Ross 650 said:


> Congrats on whipping the democrat virus!!! The only lingering symptoms that I have are lack of taste or smell.


That's  the way you can tell for sure that is IS a democrat virus.
They made the virus that way on purpose.  they cant smell their unwashed ass, and they've never had any taste... so


----------



## bczoom




----------



## bczoom




----------



## Doc

I got the two initial vaccines and the one booster.   I avoided covid until now.  I got covid last month.  Sept 20th symptoms started.   My Dr. said that with this version of covid you are most contagious two days before the symptoms show.  So maybe I had it on Sept 18th.   Symptoms got progressively worse, horrible cough, headache, hard breathing and very weak.   I went through two bottles of Vicks DayQuil sever cold and flu.  It seemed to help some.   My O2 level dropped to 90.   I used a nebulizer but could not get O2 levels to stay up.   So off to Urgent Care.  They fixed me up with steroids and some antibiotics on Oct 1st.   Both helped.   By Thursday the 8th I felt better.   I thought it was done, but it was not.  I still had lesser versions of the  head fog, cough and weakness.  I tried to exercise and simply could not.   Then the next day I felt worse than ever.  Now Oct 14th the head fog is not as bad.  Cough is gone.   Still weak but better than before.   Slow slow recovery.   

Reading the below article I though my symptoms would qualify as 'long term covid'.  Nope.   Those are for folks with symptoms for over a month.   Holy hell.   I hope mine are about all gone but still afraid to exert myself to much.   Taking it slow.  The mental fog is a nightmare to me.   The ole noggin just not functioning like you know it should.   Never ever had anything like that before.   

I feel for anyone with what they call long term covid.   


Now scientists say 'exercise intolerance' should be considered a symptom of long Covid​By CAITLIN TILLEY, HEALTH REPORTER FOR DAILYMAIL.COM

PUBLISHED: 12:27 EDT, 14 October 2022 | UPDATED: 12:33 EDT, 14 October 2022

Exercise 'intolerance' should be considered an official symptom of long Covid, scientists say.

A review of existing studies found the condition — which is still not fully understood — can rob people of the equivalent of a decade’s worth of physical fitness.

The finding adds to a long list of symptoms associated with long Covid — the name for signs of illness that linger months after a Coronavirus infection. 

Previous studies have found headaches, fatigue and brain fog to be the most common ailments, but anecdotally people say they also struggle to exercise.

Working out if long Covid is the true culprit for these problems has proven tricky, given how commonplace these symptoms are.

Professor Matthew Durstenfeld, a cardiologist at the University of California in San Francisco, who led the new review, said there was definitely 'something going on'.

His team looked at endurance capacity in people with long Covid and compared them to people of similar ages who recovered from the virus.

They found long Covid sufferers performed worse, and had the stamina of someone a decade younger.

An estimated 16million Americans and 2million Britons have the condition - but medics are still split over the true number.

The new analysis focused on 464 people with long Covid and 359 without, aged between 39 and 56, involved in nine existing trials.

All participants undertook a test of their exercise capacity and heart rate on a treadmill or exercise bike.

Generally, those who had recovered from Covid could withstand a normal amount of exercise for their age.

Their heart rates could not reach the average rate expected during exercise, which would slow blood flow around the body.

During moderate exercise, an average heart rate should be between 90 and 126 beats per minute, and for vigorous exercise, it should be between 126 and 153.

And their muscles took less oxygen from the bloodstream than they usually would, which would hinder muscle contraction. Some people also hyperventilated.

Professor Durstenfeld said these are not normal reactions after someone has become out of shape after being ill.

Writing in the study, published in JAMA Network Open, the researchers described the symptom as 'exertional intolerance'. 

Dr David Systrom, a lung expert at Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston, who was not involved with the study, reflected that individuals with long Covid may undergo molecular changes in their muscles, nerves and blood vessels.

This means their bodies may become less tolerant to the physical demands of exercise, even if they have nothing abnormal in their lungs or hearts. 

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) reported that around eight percent of American adults are suffering from a form of long Covid.

It is near impossible to tell what chance a person has of developing it after Covid infection because of the massive underreporting of cases that has occurred since the Omicron variant emerged last year. 

What is long Covid?​Long Covid is an informal term, used to describe ongoing symptoms following a Covid infection that go on longer than four weeks, according to the ONS.
A dizzying array of symptoms have been attributed to long Covid, including:

extreme tiredness (fatigue)
shortness of breath
chest pain or tightness
problems with memory and concentration ('brain fog')
difficulty sleeping (insomnia)
heart palpitations
dizziness
pins and needles
joint pain
depression and anxiety
tinnitus, earaches
feeling sick, diarrhoea, stomach aches, loss of appetite
a high temperature, cough, headaches, sore throat, changes to sense of smell or taste
rashes
There is no cure for the condition, though treatments can ease symptoms.









						'Exercise intolerance' should be considered a symptom of long Covid
					

A review of existing studies by a team of US researchers found long Covid - which is still not fully understood - can rob people of the equivalent of a decade's worth of physical fitness.




					www.dailymail.co.uk


----------



## m1west

Doc said:


> I got the two initial vaccines and the one booster.   I avoided covid until now.  I got covid last month.  Sept 20th symptoms started.   My Dr. said that with this version of covid you are most contagious two days before the symptoms show.  So maybe I had it on Sept 18th.   Symptoms got progressively worse, horrible cough, headache, hard breathing and very weak.   I went through two bottles of Vicks DayQuil sever cold and flu.  It seemed to help some.   My O2 level dropped to 90.   I used a nebulizer but could not get O2 levels to stay up.   So off to Urgent Care.  They fixed me up with steroids and some antibiotics on Oct 1st.   Both helped.   By Thursday the 8th I felt better.   I thought it was done, but it was not.  I still had lesser versions of the  head fog, cough and weakness.  I tried to exercise and simply could not.   Then the next day I felt worse than ever.  Now Oct 14th the head fog is not as bad.  Cough is gone.   Still weak but better than before.   Slow slow recovery.
> 
> Reading the below article I though my symptoms would qualify as 'long term covid'.  Nope.   Those are for folks with symptoms for over a month.   Holy hell.   I hope mine are about all gone but still afraid to exert myself to much.   Taking it slow.  The mental fog is a nightmare to me.   The ole noggin just not functioning like you know it should.   Never ever had anything like that before.
> 
> I feel for anyone with what they call long term covid.
> 
> 
> Now scientists say 'exercise intolerance' should be considered a symptom of long Covid​By CAITLIN TILLEY, HEALTH REPORTER FOR DAILYMAIL.COM
> 
> PUBLISHED: 12:27 EDT, 14 October 2022 | UPDATED: 12:33 EDT, 14 October 2022
> 
> Exercise 'intolerance' should be considered an official symptom of long Covid, scientists say.
> 
> A review of existing studies found the condition — which is still not fully understood — can rob people of the equivalent of a decade’s worth of physical fitness.
> 
> The finding adds to a long list of symptoms associated with long Covid — the name for signs of illness that linger months after a Coronavirus infection.
> 
> Previous studies have found headaches, fatigue and brain fog to be the most common ailments, but anecdotally people say they also struggle to exercise.
> 
> Working out if long Covid is the true culprit for these problems has proven tricky, given how commonplace these symptoms are.
> 
> Professor Matthew Durstenfeld, a cardiologist at the University of California in San Francisco, who led the new review, said there was definitely 'something going on'.
> 
> His team looked at endurance capacity in people with long Covid and compared them to people of similar ages who recovered from the virus.
> 
> They found long Covid sufferers performed worse, and had the stamina of someone a decade younger.
> 
> An estimated 16million Americans and 2million Britons have the condition - but medics are still split over the true number.
> 
> The new analysis focused on 464 people with long Covid and 359 without, aged between 39 and 56, involved in nine existing trials.
> 
> All participants undertook a test of their exercise capacity and heart rate on a treadmill or exercise bike.
> 
> Generally, those who had recovered from Covid could withstand a normal amount of exercise for their age.
> 
> Their heart rates could not reach the average rate expected during exercise, which would slow blood flow around the body.
> 
> During moderate exercise, an average heart rate should be between 90 and 126 beats per minute, and for vigorous exercise, it should be between 126 and 153.
> 
> And their muscles took less oxygen from the bloodstream than they usually would, which would hinder muscle contraction. Some people also hyperventilated.
> 
> Professor Durstenfeld said these are not normal reactions after someone has become out of shape after being ill.
> 
> Writing in the study, published in JAMA Network Open, the researchers described the symptom as 'exertional intolerance'.
> 
> Dr David Systrom, a lung expert at Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston, who was not involved with the study, reflected that individuals with long Covid may undergo molecular changes in their muscles, nerves and blood vessels.
> 
> This means their bodies may become less tolerant to the physical demands of exercise, even if they have nothing abnormal in their lungs or hearts.
> 
> The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) reported that around eight percent of American adults are suffering from a form of long Covid.
> 
> It is near impossible to tell what chance a person has of developing it after Covid infection because of the massive underreporting of cases that has occurred since the Omicron variant emerged last year.
> 
> What is long Covid?​Long Covid is an informal term, used to describe ongoing symptoms following a Covid infection that go on longer than four weeks, according to the ONS.
> A dizzying array of symptoms have been attributed to long Covid, including:
> 
> extreme tiredness (fatigue)
> shortness of breath
> chest pain or tightness
> problems with memory and concentration ('brain fog')
> difficulty sleeping (insomnia)
> heart palpitations
> dizziness
> pins and needles
> joint pain
> depression and anxiety
> tinnitus, earaches
> feeling sick, diarrhoea, stomach aches, loss of appetite
> a high temperature, cough, headaches, sore throat, changes to sense of smell or taste
> rashes
> There is no cure for the condition, though treatments can ease symptoms.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'Exercise intolerance' should be considered a symptom of long Covid
> 
> 
> A review of existing studies by a team of US researchers found long Covid - which is still not fully understood - can rob people of the equivalent of a decade's worth of physical fitness.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk


Do you know which version of COVID you got?


----------



## Doc

m1west said:


> Do you know which version of COVID you got?


The bad one.   LOL   
No clue.  No idea how you tell.  I tested with the home kit as did my wife.   She got it first and had a mild case.   I guess I got it from her and it got me good.   We didn't test until Sep 26th.  My lines were very dark.  She had one dark and one light line.  Whatever that means.


----------



## m1west

Doc said:


> The bad one.   LOL
> No clue.  No idea how you tell.  I tested with the home kit as did my wife.   She got it first and had a mild case.   I guess I got it from her and it got me good.   We didn't test until Sep 26th.  My lines were very dark.  She had one dark and one light line.  Whatever that means.


We had the Delta version. Wife got tested in the hospital and it was on her paperwork. Delta real bad, Omnicron -2 not so bad. My son got it a couple months ago, I was talking with him in his car touching everything for 10 minutes, I don't know if I got but had no symptoms. Daughter got Omnicron-2 no Vax. very mild. I guess everyone gets it differently.


----------



## Doc

Interesting.   The one thing I heard or read is that the immunity you have after having the virus is a whole lot better than the one you get from shots.   I do hope that is true.  

One symptom I still have that is 'weird'.  My stomach is not right.   feels sick.  No other symptom with it.  Very strange feeling.   F'n chinese.


----------



## NorthernRedneck

It went through our place last spring. We tested all 8 of us. Our foster daughter was the only one positive so we wisked her away into the front living room (we have two living rooms on the main floor and a recroom downstairs) and basically kept her isolated for 5 days. I tested her  few times and she kept showing two lines. Her symptoms were mild though. Runny nose. Cough. Slight fever. No worse than the common cold. At the time, I presented sicker than she was but kept showing one line)


----------



## Melensdad

Neither the lovely Mrs_Bob nor myself have caught it (yet).

Thought we had it a few times, but kept testing negative.


----------



## tommu56

My wife had runny nose sore, throat, and headaches, odd aches and pains earlier in the week she is feeling a little better now.
 I got the same symptom's yesterday I'm drinking tee with honey for the throat maybe we ought to get tested?
We both have 3 of the shots.


----------



## Melensdad

tommu56 said:


> My wife had runny nose sore, throat, and headaches, odd aches and pains earlier in the week she is feeling a little better now.
> I got the same symptom's yesterday I'm drinking tee with honey for the throat maybe we ought to get tested?
> We both have 3 of the shots.


Sounds like both of you have something, but neither of you have really serious symptoms.

If you think you have it, and want to seek special treatment, then get tested.

If you think you have it, and it's mild and you need no special treatment,* then is there a reason other than personal curiosity for you to get tested?  *If you are involved in caring for an elderly person or sick person, that is a good reason for you to get tested because if you are positive you may have to isolate from them for several days to a week.  If your symptoms get worse and you are in misery, that is a good reason to get tested.







						How to get your At-Home Over-The-Counter COVID-19 Test for Free | CMS
					

How do I get a free at-home over-the-counter COVID-19 test? Starting January 15, most people with a health plan can go online, or to a pharmacy or store to purchase an at-home over-the-counter COVID-19 diagnostic test authorized by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) at no cost, either...




					www.cms.gov


----------



## tommu56

Melensdad said:


> Sounds like both of you have something, but neither of you have really serious symptoms.
> 
> If you think you have it, and want to seek special treatment, then get tested.
> 
> If you think you have it, and it's mild and you need no special treatment,* then is there a reason other than personal curiosity for you to get tested?  *If you are involved in caring for an elderly person or sick person, that is a good reason for you to get tested because if you are positive you may have to isolate from them for several days to a week.  If your symptoms get worse and you are in misery, that is a good reason to get tested.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How to get your At-Home Over-The-Counter COVID-19 Test for Free | CMS
> 
> 
> How do I get a free at-home over-the-counter COVID-19 test? Starting January 15, most people with a health plan can go online, or to a pharmacy or store to purchase an at-home over-the-counter COVID-19 diagnostic test authorized by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) at no cost, either...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cms.gov


We are the geriatric people in the house  
I was planning going in to town Monday for other stuff and was thinking of picking up a couple kits then if we aren't improving.

tom


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## chowderman

there is a reason for early testing . . .
if you're in a (high) risk group, and you come down with one of the nasty versions, oral medications need to be started ASAP.
wait too long, the ....maybe I'll fee better tomorrow.... thing and oral treatments cannot cope with the full blown infection.


----------



## Doc

A possible cure for long term covid.   









						Drug for opioid addiction relieves persistent brain fog and more
					

A drug used to treat opioid and alcohol addiction, naltrexone, has shown promise in fighting long Covid in early clinical trials. There are no known cures for the condition.




					www.dailymail.co.uk


----------



## tiredretired

It's time to end all U.S. Health bureaucracies, get government the hell out of our healthcare. End the Bayh-Dole Act that allows criminals like Anthony Fauci to use our tax dollars to develop Gain of function weaponized viruses to infect us, to patent that very agent, and to create vaccine countermeasures for them and patent that too. The Bayh-Dole Act facilitates this incestuous relationship between U.S. Health/Science figures and Big Pharma.

Lets trust the Bureaucrats, we all know they know best.


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## Melensdad

CEO of Moderna broke ranks with the CDC and other health professionals.  Moderna recommends that only people "at risk" and older people get Covid booster shots.  This is a major departure from the party line.  Basically if you are healthy, Moderna says you don't really need a booster.

Many of us have made this same sort of statement, at least during the past 12 months as mutations have been milder.  Why does a healthy 5 year old, 18 year old or 40 year old, who has no real risk, have to take a shot?  Moderna is now firmly in the camp of those who say it is unnecessary and yet, Moderna makes one of the safest/best Covid vaccines in the world.


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## pirate_girl

I hate to even bump this thread, but I tested positive again yesterday morning.
I'm off for 10 days.
15 residents at work have tested positive.

Edit to add:
This time it's kicking my ass.


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## Ross 650

pirate_girl said:


> I hate to even bump this thread, but I tested positive again yesterday morning.
> I'm off for 10 days.
> 15 residents at work have tested positive.
> 
> Edit to add:
> This time it's kicking my ass.
> View attachment 157444


Hang in there Lollie.  Wishing you fast and easy healing.   Have a goodun!!!!!!


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## Doc

It kicked my butt last Sept.  When Oxygen level stayed in low 90's quick care gave me some steroids and antibiotics that did help.    
Good luck PG.


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## NorthernRedneck

Good luck pg.


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## EastTexFrank

Take care of yourself girl.  We love you.


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## tommu56

pirate_girl said:


> I hate to even bump this thread, but I tested positive again yesterday morning.
> I'm off for 10 days.
> 15 residents at work have tested positive.
> 
> Edit to add:
> This time it's kicking my ass.
> View attachment 157444


It could be worse if it was a matertinity test
Get better listen to the DR!


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## Lenny

I hope you get through this fast.  
I'll be praying for you.


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## tiredretired

It is well past time to confirm once and for all that this disease came from the Chinamen and to damn well do something about it.  I am sick and tired of seeing our worthless politicians pussy foot around this and lay the blame squarely right where it belongs, it the chinamen's lap.

Will it change anything?  Of course not, we have cowards and asswipes running our government, but the facts must be presented and put out there for those able and willing to hear the truth.  It is time.  It is past time.

The truth is being supressed, most likely, to protect those in this country including our government that played a part in its creation, not to mention the fact it was most likely released in collusion with the Dems to influence the 2020 election.


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## m1west

pirate_girl said:


> I hate to even bump this thread, but I tested positive again yesterday morning.
> I'm off for 10 days.
> 15 residents at work have tested positive.
> 
> Edit to add:
> This time it's kicking my ass.
> View attachment 157444


Do you know what variant you have? or just take a rapid test.


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## J.J. McDaniels

Hope you get better soon, PG.


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## m1west

get well soon.


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## pirate_girl

m1west said:


> Do you know what variant you have? or just take a rapid test.


Thanks guys.
Marty, I just did the rapid test.
No idea of the variant.
I can tell you one thing , I NEVER thought I would get hit this hard, and why now?
Yesterday was bad. I did nothing.
It was difficult to focus, walk, nevermind having no appetite.
Odd though. I never had a fever, but did have a cracking headache for 24 hours.
My cough is productive, still have nasal congestion which led to a pretty bad nosebleed yesterday morning.
There is no strength in my limbs.
I feel like I weigh 500 lbs.
That said, I do feel better today in comparison.
I'm off work until after Thanksgiving.


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## Doc

Glad you are feeling better.    Are you checking your O2 level?   Hope so.   CVS had them on sale a few weeks ago for 14 bucks.


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## EastTexFrank

Glad that you're slowly getting better.  

I woke up this morning at 5 am with nasal congestion, drainage, sore throat, cough and a headache.  I was not thinking good thoughts.  I held on until 7 o'clock and couldn't stand it anymore.  I got up and took the rapid test.  Thankfully it was negative.  It must just be really bad allergies but what is causing it, I don't know.  I still feel pretty crappy.  I may retest later in the day.


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## pirate_girl

Doc said:


> Glad you are feeling better.    Are you checking your O2 level?   Hope so.   CVS had them on sale a few weeks ago for 14 bucks.


Doc I'm showing no signs of hypoxia at all.
I can hold my breath for over 30 seconds or longer.
This is just a feeling of blah, blowing my nose, sneezing.
Oh yes, I had diarrhea yesterday too, so I'm replacing fluids today.


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## FrancSevin

pirate_girl said:


> Thanks guys.
> Marty, I just did the rapid test.
> No idea of the variant.
> I can tell you one thing , I NEVER thought I would get hit this hard, and why now?
> Yesterday was bad. I did nothing.
> It was difficult to focus, walk, nevermind having no appetite.
> Odd though. I never had a fever, but did have a cracking headache for 24 hours.
> My cough is productive, still have nasal congestion which led to a pretty bad nosebleed yesterday morning.
> There is no strength in my limbs.
> I feel like I weigh 500 lbs.
> That said, I do feel better today in comparison.
> I'm off work until after Thanksgiving.


Somehow I missed this. Lollie, I do hope it gets better soon.

From your symptoms, it sounds like the Omicron version.

Cathy and I had that last year in November. Lasted three weeks. I remember only some of it as I was delirious half the time.

As Doc mentioned, O2 levels are critical.
Obviously, hydration and vitamin supplements are important.  Get Zinc going as well.
Expect to lose weight. Lots of it.  Don't worry though.  Once you're well, it comes back.


----------



## Melensdad

pirate_girl said:


> . . . I just did the *rapid test*.
> No idea of the variant.
> . . .


Kobe got sick with RSV and we were in the emergency room with him, it was a slow time in the ER so the doctor was chatty. 

He was telling us that the new strain(s) of covid seem to NOT show up as positive on the Rapid Tests.  He said that a lot of people with Covid are getting "false negatives" on their home tests because the viral load of the new strain(s) seems to be lower.  But he also said that while the viral load is lower, many people are still miserable with the disease.  So people tend to do a home test, get a negative result, and assume they have a flu, RSV, or some other crud when, in fact, they actually have Covid.

Looks like you won the jackpot. tested positive AND feel miserable.  If you want to call that luck?  I suppose the good thing is is that you found out what you have and can now take precautions so you don't spread it around.

I hope you are feeling better soon.


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## EastTexFrank

I retested and got another negative.  During the day everything settled down to be what seems like a raging cold.  I can't even remember the last time that I had a cold.  Things will be better in a couple of days ... I hope.


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## NorthernRedneck

Our oldest daughter has had a deep dry cough for a month. With reoccurring cold symptoms. Keeps testing negative. My wife is now sick with a deep cough. She already has mild asthma but only requires puffers when she gets sick as she is short of breath.  She went to emergency yesterday and had a chest x-ray which was negative for pneumonia. They prescribed her prednisone and a new puffer. It hasn't helped yet.


----------



## pirate_girl

Today I'm feeling a little better.
At least the bone-numbing fatigue is less.
Still coughing a lot, still stuffy in the head.
I ate some chicken noodle soup last night and some applesauce.
Both tasted salty/metallic- everything does.
I've been brushing my teeth obsessively as well as my tongue, gargling with Listerine and nothing helps that.
Today my son Jeff is making a store run for me and dropping the stuff at my door.
We've had 4 more staff members and half dozen more residents test positive at work.
So far none of my family members have it.


----------



## pirate_girl

Five days into this damn thing and I'm finally starting to feel better.
The fog is lifting, my energy is coming back gradually. Appetite not so much really. I have been eating small amounts of a lot of things.


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## Ross 650

Glad to hear that you are feeling better.  Keep up the good work!!!!!


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## pirate_girl

Thank you Ross! ❤


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## EastTexFrank

Good news PG.  Keep at it.  You'll be back to snuff in no time.  

I tested negative for a third time yesterday but damn, this cold is taking a long time to get over.  

I found out yesterday that four other people that were at out Rotary Club meeting last Monday have come down with the same crap.


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## mla2ofus

Glad you're on the mend, PG!!


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## bczoom




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## UberBastid

EastTexFrank said:


> Good news PG.  Keep at it.  You'll be back to snuff in no time.
> 
> I tested negative for a third time yesterday but damn, this cold is taking a long time to get over.
> 
> I found out yesterday that four other people that were at out Rotary Club meeting last Monday have come down with the same crap.


Oh SHIT.
_YOU_ came down with the Rotary Strain.

Why didn't you say so.
Pay a $5 fine, take a double shot of cheap Gin and sweat it out.



.


----------



## EastTexFrank

UberBastid said:


> Oh SHIT.
> _YOU_ came down with the Rotary Strain.
> 
> Why didn't you say so.
> Pay a $5 fine, take a double shot of cheap Gin and sweat it out.
> 
> 
> 
> .



Yup, it looks as if I did.  If we can narrow it down and identify the carrier, we can have him/her eliminated, all in the name of public service.

As a matter of fact, I was fined $1 because my darned phone went off during the meeting.  No cheap gin here.  I will drink cheap Scotch if that is all there is, but I much prefer a Speyside or Highland single malt


----------



## pirate_girl

I do believe I've kicked this!
Feel better today than I have in a week.
Still got an annoying cough, but that I can manage.
Appetite is back and I can taste and smell now.


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## Ross 650

Great news!!!!  Glad you are kicking its ass!!!!!  I had mine over a year ago and still cant smell or taste.  Have a goodun!!!!!!!


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## EastTexFrank

I'm glad for you PG.  Keep getting better.


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## Doc

Yay PG.   Glad you are about over it.   The cough sucks and can drag on quite a while.   Afterwards I felt like I was still in a brain fog at times.   It was weird but went away at about 3 weeks afterwards.


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## pirate_girl

Doc said:


> Yay PG.   Glad you are about over it.   The cough sucks and can drag on quite a while.   Afterwards I felt like I was still in a brain fog at times.   It was weird but went away at about 3 weeks afterwards.


It's the stupid tickly sensation that's maddening.
I've found the only thing helping that are Ricola. Halls cough drops only seem to worsen it once the menthol vapors hit the back of my throat.
I'm sure I had the brain fog the first couple of days. I just felt like I couldn't think or deal with anything.
Take care all of you.


----------



## tommu56

pirate_girl said:


> It's the stupid tickly sensation that's maddening.
> I've found the only thing helping that are Ricola. Halls cough drops only seem to worsen it once the menthol vapors hit the back of my throat.
> I'm sure I had the brain fog the first couple of days. I just felt like I couldn't think or deal with anything.
> Take care all of you.


its good you coming out of it 
hot tea with local honey is my go to for the cough 

tom


----------



## pirate_girl

tommu56 said:


> its good you coming out of it
> hot tea with local honey is my go to for the cough
> 
> tom


Thanks Tom.
I'm going to have some black tea with honey this evening


----------



## mla2ofus

Don't forget to add the rum or whiskey also the lemon juice!!


----------



## pirate_girl

Interesting info here.
Very accurate.



			https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2022/12/the-updated-most-common-covid-symptoms-and-they-are-not-what-you-think.html?outputType=amp&fr=operanews
		


A recent survey from the ZOE Health Study found that these are the top 10 reported COVID symptoms in the last 30 days:


Sore throat
Runny nose
Blocked nose
Sneezing
Coughing without phlegm
Headache
Coughing with phlegm
Hoarse voice
Muscle aches and pains
Altered sense of smell
*Notably absent from that list are fever and loss of taste and smell, which were earlier markers of the virus. These symptoms distinguished it from other viruses, such as the flu or a cold.*

But what all of these symptoms have in common is that they were COVID-19 side effects since the start of the pandemic in March 2020.


----------



## Ross 650

A year and half after my bout with Covid, I still have no sense of taste or smell.


----------



## Melensdad

My brother tested + for covid this morning.  He thought he had the flu.


----------



## pirate_girl

Ross, I have a friend who purchased the olfactory kit to help with that.
It's several tubes of things similar to a Vick's inhaler.
You got the bad BAD covid.
She does have hers back a little.
Many of my residents who suffered the first hit almost 2 years ago still don't have much taste or smell to this day.
Bob, I thought I had the flu too.
I still have a weird sensation with not being able to smell certain things, but I can taste any foods I eat.
My thinking isn't as sharp as it was, but that comes in bouts at the strangest times.
Then again, I'm goofy anyway so ...


----------



## Lenny

pirate_girl said:


> Interesting info here.
> Very accurate.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2022/12/the-updated-most-common-covid-symptoms-and-they-are-not-what-you-think.html?outputType=amp&fr=operanews
> 
> 
> 
> A recent survey from the ZOE Health Study found that these are the top 10 reported COVID symptoms in the last 30 days:
> 
> 
> Sore throat
> Runny nose
> Blocked nose
> Sneezing
> Coughing without phlegm
> Headache
> Coughing with phlegm
> Hoarse voice
> Muscle aches and pains
> Altered sense of smell
> *Notably absent from that list are fever and loss of taste and smell, which were earlier markers of the virus. These symptoms distinguished it from other viruses, such as the flu or a cold.*
> 
> But what all of these symptoms have in common is that they were COVID-19 side effects since the start of the pandemic in March 2020.


This is good information!
A close friend of mine has over half of those symptoms and did test positive for covid.
I shared it with him and he was grateful.  
Thanks


----------



## EastTexFrank

I had most of those symptoms and tested negative for Covid three times.  It seems that I had a really, really bad cold.

On the other hand, both my S-I-Ls went on a bus tour up to the north-east and both caught Covid.  The one that lives in Georgia isn't too bad.  The one that lives not far from us was one sick little puppy.  I thought that we were going to have to take her to the Emergency Dept but the fever broke after four days and now she only feels relatively crappy.  She's a tough little bugger though.  She drove herself from Georgia back to East Texas while suffering the full symptoms of Covid.


----------



## Melensdad

EastTexFrank said:


> *I had most of those symptoms and tested negative for Covid three times.*  It seems that I had a really, really bad cold.
> 
> . . .


Ditto for me too.  I keep testing negative for Covid.  We have had several "super spreader" type events in the high schools, I've never tested positive, while others I know end up testing positive.

And most days of my life, due to various mild allergies, I have some degree or another of:

Runny nose
Blocked nose
Sneezing
And due to my Rheumatoid Arthritis I also live with almost daily:

Muscle aches and pains
And due to a APAP machine my morning includes:

Sore throat
And as a fencing coach who coaches in a loud environment, yelling at teenagers, I have a daily:

Sore throat
Hoarse voice


----------



## Doc

pirate_girl said:


> Bob, I thought I had the flu too.
> I still have a weird sensation with not being able to smell certain things, but I can taste any foods I eat.
> My thinking isn't as sharp as it was, but that comes in bouts at the strangest times.
> Then again, I'm goofy anyway so ...


Much the same here.  I thought it was the flu when I got it last Sept.   I didn't loose taste but taste was off.   Things just didn't taste right.   And the brain fog lasted longer than the cough.   4 weeks or so.  I didn't notice the brain fog until I was mostly over Covid.


----------



## jpr62902

pirate_girl said:


> Interesting info here.
> Very accurate.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2022/12/the-updated-most-common-covid-symptoms-and-they-are-not-what-you-think.html?outputType=amp&fr=operanews
> 
> 
> 
> A recent survey from the ZOE Health Study found that these are the top 10 reported COVID symptoms in the last 30 days:
> 
> 
> Sore throat
> Runny nose
> Blocked nose
> Sneezing
> Coughing without phlegm
> Headache
> Coughing with phlegm
> Hoarse voice
> Muscle aches and pains
> Altered sense of smell
> *Notably absent from that list are fever and loss of taste and smell, which were earlier markers of the virus. These symptoms distinguished it from other viruses, such as the flu or a cold.*
> 
> But what all of these symptoms have in common is that they were COVID-19 side effects since the start of the pandemic in March 2020.


I developed all of these symptoms a little over a week ago. I used the gubmit iHealth home tests (made in China) 4x and they all came back negative. Then, I lost my sense of taste a couple of days ago and used the Roche test. Instant positive. Thnaks to those stupid shitty iHealth tests, I lost out on getting Paxlovid. The wife got Paxlovid and she was done with symptoms in 4 days after the antiviral. I'm still dealing with congestion and cough, but I'm certainly on the uptick.


----------

