# Volvo C303 4x4- Thinking of this one, is it worth it?



## Melensdad

I've been trading some emails with a guy in Ohio who has a Volvo C303 radio truck.  Asking price is $15,000.  Seems a bit high, thinking of offering $13,000 but still have lots of doubt.  Especially started doubting the whole thing last night when the lovely Mrs_B and I were at the church and a guy tooled up in an absolutely beautiful Dodge Power Wagon, vintage something in the 1950's or 60's???  Totally restored and a show stopper.  The lovely Mrs_B liked it a lot.  She is not sold on the Pinz/Volvo but will let me have it if I want it.  So now the door is open pretty wide for some sort of a toy.

This has more miles on it that I was looking for, the body is in OK condition, but not great.  I don't like the fact that it burns oil, but it is a common Volvo B20 engine so it might not be too expensive to fix, engine parts are available.

I'd really like your opinions of this:

Bob,
 Attached are some pictures of the truck.  I'd be happy to take more pictures of any specific parts of the truck you'd like to see. Mechanically, the truck is in nice condition.  It has 94,000km on it, it had about 89,000 when I bought it.  I've done the following to it:

Installed new CV boot on the left front corner.  I have a new seal for the right front but haven't installed it yet, only the left was leaking when I got the truck and the right seems to be holding fine.

Replaced the rear main seal.

Installed new clutch and throw out bearing.

Converted to 1-2-3 electronic ignition kit.  I have all the original mechanical sealed ignition hardware as well which will go with the truck.

Replaced the engine oil cooler.

Starter rebuilt.

Repaired body damage on the right side, lower left corner of the middle door.  It came from Sweden with a pretty nasty gash in the body, I had it repaired by a local restoration shop and the door opens and closes fine and seals.

Replaced the passenger side mirror.  The original mirror stuck way out on the right side, and got mangled by some trees on the trail.  My brother and I fabricated a replacement mirror setup with some stainless tubing.  The new mirror actually has much better visibility than the original one.  It's also set up to be easily removed when on the trail.

New exhaust.  The original system on this truck was rusted beyond repair.  I had a local shop fabricate a new system using a generic muffler.  It's a shorter, quieter system and sits a little higher so it's out of the way on the trail.

With the above work finished, the truck is in very nice driving
condition.  I've taken it on a couple trips to PA (about 300mi round trip) with no problems.  At highway speeds it runs slightly rich and burns a little oil -- about a quart every 150mi.  Driving locally around town I haven't noticed any oil burn.  I haven't worked on the brakes at all, but they are in great condition.  The tires are the original military tires it came from Sweden with.  They're mixed as far as wear, and should probably be replaced as I have no idea how old the rubber is.  It shipped from Sweden with a spare, but it was stolen off the back of the truck at some point in the shipping.  I have a fifth wheel that will go with the truck, but there is no tire mounted on it.

As you can guess, I've been fixing up this truck with the objective of actually using it off road, not to restore it to original condition.  I've had it off road a few times now, and it is an amazingly capable truck.  The 4wd and lockers all work well.

Let me know what questions you have, I'll be happy to answer
everything I can.  Sorry for the delay in getting the pictures to you, it's been a busy few weeks.

Thanks,
Ross​


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## Melensdad

*Re: Thinking of this one, is it worth it?*

The goal is to gut the interior and turn it into an extreme "mini van" with a nice stereo, pretty reasonable seats, carpets, etc.  Nice, but not so nice that you wouldn't want to get it dirty.  That is the point of this, getting it dirty!

Paint would be completely different.  Probably something more suitable to sand dunes & surf boards!


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## Dargo

*Re: Thinking of this one, is it worth it?*

Bob, don't take this wrong, and it's not because it's a Volvo (the liquid cooled thing does have merit), but that particular unit just doesn't seem quite right for some reason.  I'd need more pictures, but it does NOT look like a top dollar unit to me.  Well, not exactly "top" dollar, but you know what I mean.

I abused my little Jeep Cherokee Sport yesterday at my property and now the A/C doesn't work.    I guess what I'd really like is a Pinz with a diesel conversion, or a Unimog with a strong diesel.  However, like you, when I was actually going to pick up a 'mog', it's size was just not what I had in mind.

It sounds rather odd, but I'd like one with the strong diesel conversion because I'd like to build one up to make a driving trip to Alaska.  I could fit one with a custom built fuel cell (made by me  ) that could go a long way between stops, have powerful winches on both ends with additional cable on a spool for possible long reaches along with the "anchors" you use when there is nothing suitable to winch off of, and all the other amenities to also act as a modest camper.

I've seen several vehicles that would work for this overseas, but they were modified diesel Toyota Land Cruisers.


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## Junkman

*Re: Thinking of this one, is it worth it?*

You can't compare a Dodge Power Wagon to the Volvo.  To me, they are two different types of vehicles.  You may disagree, so I won't go down that road.  I suggest that if you are going to spend $13K and then have to do an engine job on it, that it will cost another $3500 including R&R of the unit.  Add to that any incidentals and you are going to be pushing the $20K mark quickly.  I suggest that you look for a restored Dodge "Little Red Express Wagon".  They are the next generation to the Dodge Power Wagons.  It will provide a better ride and will be more impressive a vehicle for fun, show & go.
If you are looking for a work truck, then the Volvo might be a better choice.  Before plunking down any money, I suggest that you make a personal visit to the vehicles to determine the condition.  Whenever I see a long laundry list of parts that have been replace, I wonder how well the craftsmanship of the installer is.  I also wonder if the seller feels that they are sinking in expense and wants to bail out of the vehicle by selling it.  Many restorations end up costing 3 to 10 times the original estimate.  It all depends on the tolerance level of the person doing the work and the owners ability to keep paying the bills. 
This quote from his email I find interesting.........





> At highway speeds it runs slightly rich and burns a little oil -- about a quart every 150mi. Driving locally around town I haven't noticed any oil burn. I haven't worked on the brakes at all, but they are in great condition.



A quart of oil in 150 miles is very troubling.  That is what is called *excessive*.  Of course he doesn't find much oil consumption driving around town.... a few miles only equates to a few ounces!!!!!   I also love the comment about the brakes.  How can he claim that they are in "great condition" if he hasn't worked on them?  I consider taking the drums off and examining the condition "working on them", even if you don't do anything more than determine the condition.  Brakes are one item that require physical examination to determine condition.  They are known to go into catastrophic failure without notice.  

Junk


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## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

*Re: Thinking of this one, is it worth it?*

Dargo, get one of these:

http://www.quigley4x4.com/

(Of course they only Ford and GM and I know you're a Chrysler/Dodge guy).


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## Melensdad

*Re: Thinking of this one, is it worth it?*

Junk & Dargo, the more I look at this (_I just got the photos a few minutes before posting them_) the more this looks like a $9000 truck.  To much is troublesome to me, and while it might be a sound project vehicle it is not an ideal project vehicle.


As for the Power Wagon, I have no thoughts to getting one, I only was using it as an example of what the lovely Mrs_B thinks is a more fun truck.  Sorry if I confused the issue with the way I wrote it.


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## Junkman

*Re: Thinking of this one, is it worth it?*



			
				B_Skurka said:
			
		

> Junk & Dargo, the more I look at this (_I just got the photos a few minutes before posting them_) the more this looks like a $9000 truck.  To much is troublesome to me, and while it might be a sound project vehicle it is not an ideal project vehicle.
> 
> 
> As for the Power Wagon, I have no thoughts to getting one, I only was using it as an example of what the lovely Mrs_B thinks is a more fun truck.  Sorry if I confused the issue with the way I wrote it.



I agree with the Mrs.....


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## Dargo

*Re: Thinking of this one, is it worth it?*



			
				PBinWA said:
			
		

> Dargo, get one of these:
> 
> http://www.quigley4x4.com/
> 
> (Of course they only Ford and GM and I know you're a Chrysler/Dodge guy).



Actually I own a few Chevrolets, a Ford, two Dodges, 3 Hondas, a Jeep, and a Toyota.  I just have a extreme dislike of GM's diesels.  They were an absolute disaster in the past with their 6.2's and their 6.5's (yeah, I unfortunately owned each), and I am not even remotely impressed with their Isuzu (Duramax) engine.


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## Melensdad

Here is a Pinz on Ebay that has zero bids and is sitting at $10,000

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1973...23288QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW#ebayphotohosting

This unit looks to be in better shape than the Volvo!


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## humor_me

B_Skurka said:
			
		

> I'd really like your opinions of this:
> 
> Bob,
> ..... I've taken it on a couple trips to PA (about 300mi round trip) with no problems. At highway speeds it runs slightly rich and burns a little oil -- about a quart every 150mi. Driving locally around town I haven't noticed any oil burn.......
> Thanks,
> Ross      ​




Bob,
You got to be wary of a vehicle that burns "a little oil". A quart in a 150 miles (to me) is not a little oil. That's more like a mosquito fogger. ​


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## humor_me

*Re: Thinking of this one, is it worth it?*



			
				B_Skurka said:
			
		

> Paint would be completely different. Probably something more suitable to sand dunes & surf boards!


 
OH NO, don't tell me you're going to pattern the paint after a   Hawaiian shirt you have...


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## Melensdad

*Re: Thinking of this one, is it worth it?*



			
				humor_me said:
			
		

> OH NO, don't tell me you're going to pattern the paint after a   Hawaiian shirt you have...


Acutally I was thinking tan with a wide reddish stripe and maybe a palm tree on the stripe?  My daughter wants it to be "urban camo" or "snow camo" pattern.

But I'm really starting to have some doubts about these things.  The Pinzgauer units are easy to find, and many are in good shape, low miles, little to no rust, and cheap too.  The downsides are they have 24volt electrical systems so doing things like adding a radio, GPS, mini-fridge, and DVD player/TV screen require down converting and proper grounding to get them to work without frying them.  The other big downside is they require gas heaters to be installed and I don't much like that concept!

The Volvo C303 is the 'ideal' base vehicle, same form factor as the Pinz, but it actually has a water cooled engine so it has real heat for the winter.  From what I can tell, many/most/all of them are 12 volt so adding the toys is fun.  But the Volvo C303 is rare to begin with, and even rarer if you get picky and want one that is in good shape, modestly low miles, minimal rust, etc.



			
				humor me said:
			
		

> A quart in a 150 miles (to me) is not a little oil. That's more like a mosquito fogger.


Yup.  That is a darn good description.  I actually had pretty high hopes for this unit until I got time to read over the email with the photos.  I'm in communicaton with a guy who is bringing over 2 of them in a couple months.  He also imports Pinzgauers.  If his are not in better shape then I'm really not sure where to turn to find a good Volvo and I really see too many downsides to the Pinz for _my_ uses.


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## Av8r3400

411 Unimog?  Just a thought.


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## Melensdad

Av8r3400 said:
			
		

> 411 Unimog?  Just a thought.


 Dargo wants a mog!  I don't want something that is physically as large as a Unimog.  I also would like something that I can haul both PEOPLE and THINGS inside of, which is why I am looking at the full bodied versions of the C303 and Pinzgauers.

I'm actually getting pretty depressed because I can't find one in decent condition here in the US and I don't want to import another vehicle, but another C303 was just listed for sale.  Asking price of this one is $9000.  

The dog in the front seat is not included.


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## humor_me

Sounds like Dargo wants an Expedition vehicle 

Look here at some links for ideas.
http://www.pinztrek.com/trek/trek.htm#vehicles
Just a thought.


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## Mith

> My daughter wants it to be "urban camo"



Whats 'urban camo'?
Lots of highrise, chavs on street corners, shop fronts? Look a bit silly a truck with that painted on the side.


$10,000 sounds like quite alot of money to spend on something for fun, and then spending more making it how you want it


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## Melensdad

Mith said:
			
		

> Whats 'urban camo'?
> Lots of highrise, chavs on street corners, shop fronts? Look a bit silly a truck with that painted on the side.


Actually Urban and Snow camo are very similar.  Basically shapes of white, grey and black.  It is supposed to mimic the shadows & reflections cast by buidings/windows/trees/etc.    Here is a British Ferret painted in Urban Camo pattern:






Lots of kids here in the US have discovered various camo patters as fashionable for clothes.  They use some of the standard military colors and patterns, but they also have some bizarre patterns and colors that include pink, purples, blue, etc.  I don't know why   But here is a hottie wearing pink urban camo and the link to the Ebay auction where she/it is featured: 
http://cgi.ebay.com/Skirt-NWT-Flirt...itemZ9307817817QQcategoryZ11479QQcmdZViewItem







As for the comment about the price . . . it is obvious that you are a single man.  I say that because every married man realizes that if there is any money at all laying around they better spend it fast before the wife finds it because then it will be spend on totally worthless stuff like dress shoes that go with outfits that they do not own.


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## Junkman

B_Skurka said:
			
		

> ............
> 
> As for the comment about the price . . . it is obvious that you are a single man.  I say that because every married man realizes that if there is any money at all laying around they better spend it fast before the wife finds it because then it will be spend on totally worthless stuff like dress shoes that go with outfits that they do not own.



Differant sex, differant type of items, but one is just as worthless to the other sex and vice versa.  Personally, if you have $10K or $15K burning a hole in you pants pocket, then why not invest it in something that you both might enjoy in your retirement years, such as a personal IRA??????


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## humor_me

Mith said:
			
		

> Whats 'urban camo'?
> Lots of highrise, chavs on street corners, shop fronts? Look a bit silly a truck with that painted on the side.
> 
> 
> $10,000 sounds like quite alot of money to spend on something for fun, and then spending more making it how you want it


 
Mith,
What's a chav?


Man, between you and Vin, us bloody Yanks need a glossary.


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## Melensdad

Here are some more photos of the $9000 Volvo. 

This one is a 12 volt civilian model (that is a good thing for what I want).  Seats came out of a Toyota?  

What do you guys think?  I'm still trying to get more information!


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## humor_me

Bob, 
That looks a lot more like the one. Is this one close enough to go drive?


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## Mith

Wow, Bob, do people actually wear that? I've seen some weird people before, but thats getting right up there!
Youre wife must have very expensive taste if she lets 10K build up before she spends it on a new dress! 


Chav, pikey, townie.... wikipedia definition. What do you call those type of people? Actually the costume Bob posted would most likely be worn by the chavette type.
To chav also means to steal, so you get the type.....


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## buckle97

B_Skurka said:
			
		

> Seats came out of a Toyota?


 
They look like Toyota Tacoma seats to me  .


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## Melensdad

humor_me said:
			
		

> Is this one close enough to go drive?


Nope, that one is in Colorado.



			
				Mith said:
			
		

> Wow, Bob, do people actually wear that?


Well that is sort of an extreme example, but it is common to see girls wearing shorts, capri pants or fatigue style pants with those patters and various colors from grey/black/white to light blues/purples/white or pink/lavender/white.  I also commonly see shirts that are similar.  Rarely do I see an entire outfit like that.  More commonly a plain shirt and the camo pants, or visa versa.


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## Snowcat Operations

That thing in the pink camos looks like a guy!  UHHGGG!  Look at the hands.  Even if it is a female then she would have to be the ugliest that I have EVER seen!

Bob were in Colorado?  If I get up that way I can take a looksy for you.  I would take tons of pictures as well.


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## Melensdad

Snowcat Operations said:
			
		

> That thing in the pink camos looks like a guy!  UHHGGG!  Look at the hands.  Even if it is a female then she would have to be the ugliest that I have EVER seen!
> 
> Bob were in Colorado?  If I get up that way I can take a looksy for you.  I would take tons of pictures as well.


 Mike, I am not attracted to the blond in the pink camo either, but I am a bit more diplomatic when I describe ugly women 

The Volvo is in Denver.

I've been trading emails with many Volvo and Pinz owners and now am more confused than ever before.  Several Pinz owners have indicated *big RUST **problems* with the Volvos, but as they were trying to sell me a Pinz I sort of discounted their statements.  Until today.  Today I got a reply from a guy who fixes both, he is not trying to sell me anything, and he has been very helpful in providing me information over the past couple of weeks.  Here is what he wrote (just the rust part).From experience I prefer the Pinzgauer based upon initial enduring quality of the vehicle as a whole. Availability of parts to keep the truck running, and its agility off road. I have had two customers bend Volvo axles in extreme situations. 

To sum up , the running units on the Volvo seem superior in many ways but the overall condition, poor body quality that is prone to vicious corrosion, and non avaialability of parts makes ownership a chore. Besides should you love affair with ex mil truck fade, there is a better chance of recovering your investment( if that's what you want to call it) if you are selling a Steyr. 
​I really do not like the 24-volt Pinz electrical system, it would make it very expensive to do all the modifications that I want to do.  I also do not like the concept of needing an auxilary gas heater to heat the cabin (like we do with the Snow Tracs).  So that is 2 strikes against the Pinz, and both are big strikes in my mind, with the electrical system being the biggest drawback.

The Volvo rust problem cannot be ignored, and I have now gotten enough information to believe it is real, and is a big problem.  Availability is also a problem for both whole units and some parts.  

So now I am seriously contemplating looking into something completly different.  I still have some inquiries and still have interest, but I'm also beginning to see a reality that I don't like.  So I'm not sure what the heck I am going to do.  I have not given up, but I will give up on the *Volvo* and now look only at the Pinz.


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## humor_me

Snowcat Operations said:
			
		

> That thing in the pink camos looks like a guy! UHHGGG! Look at the hands. Even if it is a female then she would have to be the ugliest that I have EVER seen!


 
   
Notice how heshe keeps hishers Adam's apple hidden...


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## Snowcat Operations

When it comes to guys dressing as women I am not very Tact full!  On the Volvo yes rust can be a problem but only on the old ones.  The newest ones are alot better.  As far as bending an axle.  Yes anyone can in EXTREME conditions.  I wont be doing anything that extreme.  The Pinzys are great!  Top 10 in the off road dept.  Just dont slam on the brakes and hope to stop quickly!  The rear end comes up so much that the rear tire almost leave the ground and offer about 0% in stopping assistance.  No matter how you look at it these types of vehicles will be more expensive to own and operate than a typical off the shelf USA 4x4.  BUT then again they are not your typical USA 4x4!


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## Snowcat Operations

Bob to be truthful if a nice 6x6 712 ambulance came around I would buy it.


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## Melensdad

Snowcat Operations said:
			
		

> On the Volvo yes rust can be a problem but only on the old ones.  The newest ones are alot better.


 The problem is the newest of the Volvos I can find are from the mid-1970's.  Most seem to be 73 to 75.  So I'm thinking that rust is going to be a big issue, especially considering the amount of road-salt we use in the winter here in the midwest.

Heck the way my search is going I might just end up with a rusty Ford Aerostar minivan   AHhh, well no that won't happen.  Maybe tomorrow will be a better day in my searching?



			
				Snowcat Operations said:
			
		

> if a nice 6x6 712 ambulance came around I would buy it.



I have a guy that is trying to sell me one of those and it looks really nice!


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## Melensdad

*I have decided to GIVE UP on this project.  *_(much to the joy of the lovely Mrs_B)  _

I still like these, I still want one, but it is becoming increasingly obvious that to convert one of these into something that I want to convert it into would require massive amounts of money and finding a suitable base unit is going to be very very difficult.  I would still prefer the Volvo, largely due to the 12 volt electrical system and the B20 water cooled engine which is easy to get parts for, but rust is a very real problem.*

Volvo C303* - Major Drawbacks: Suffer from major rust issues / parts are impossible to find / other parts expensive when found / whole units are rare

*Pinzgauer* - Major Drawbacks: 24 volt electrical system requires step down converters which increase complications and costs / air cooled engines require aux gas fired furnaces to heat the cabin / towing is marginal at best and not recommended at high speeds / loud cabin


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## BoneheadNW

B_Skurka said:
			
		

> it is common to see girls wearing shorts, capri pants or fatigue style pants with those patters and various colors from grey/black/white to light blues/purples/white or pink/lavender/white. I also commonly see shirts that are similar. Rarely do I see an entire outfit like that. More commonly a plain shirt and the camo pants, or visa versa.


Whoa!  Sounds like you know way too much detail about women's clothing to me.  Not that there is anything wrong with cross dressers.......
Bonehead


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## Snowcat Operations

Bob. How has the search been going. I still feel the Volvo is far superior to the Pinzy. Better ride and quieter. Parts are alot easier and ALOT cheaper to get than the pinzgauer parts. Rust is not an issue if you look at the vehicle you intend to buy.


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