# Brownshirts squash Free Speech in MidNight raid under Obama Administration



## Melensdad

Peel off the tinfoil, it IS happening in the United States.  Midnight knocks on the door.  Welcome to the United States of Chicago.

Literal brownshirts scoop up filmmaker for . . . ?  Displeasing the Boss?

Behavior that get rewarded gets repeated.  This bodes ill.

Alleged 'Innocence of Muslims' filmmaker taken in for interview - latimes.com






> Just after midnight Saturday morning, authorities descended on the Cerritos home of the man believed to be the filmmaker behind the anti-Muslim movie that has sparked protests and rioting in the Muslim world.
> 
> Los Angeles County sheriff's deputies escorted a man believed to be Nakoula Basseley Nakoula to an awaiting car. The man declined to answer questions on his way out and wore a hat and a scarf over his face. He kept his hands in the pockets of a winter coat.
> 
> Sheriff's officials could not be reached by The Times, but department spokesman Steve Whitmore told KNBC News that deputies assisting the federal probation department took Nakoula . . .


This guy made a really crappy movie about Islam.  That is legal.  We now are squashing free speech because foreigners may find it offensive?  Or is that just an excuse to cover up the incompetence of Obama's foreign policy which has led to a total melt down of the middle east?

Here, Obama's new ambassador to Libya claims its the movies fault, and that the attacks were NOT pre-planned to celebrate 9/11 or for retaliation of the killing of their #2 al Quaeda leader => http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/09/ambassador-susan-rice-libya-attack-not-premeditated/

And here, the government of Libya claims to have warned the USA 3 days in advance of 9/11 that violence on 9/11 was planned => http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/15/world/meast/libya-diplomats-warning/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

And here again, Libya's government proclaims the attacks were pre-planned taking months to coordinate => http://www.politico.com/blogs/polit...doubt-consulate-attack-preplanned-135664.html


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## FrancSevin

Having pinned the blame for the mideast uprisings on this innocuois film, they have to go thru the motions of making it important.

More appeasement tothe muslim world.

More apologies for what we are.

America is the one natuion where racist idiots can say what they want.

And even get elected President.


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## mak2

You guys are soooo funny. Maybe the police came because of potential probation violations?  Bank fraud, computer.  Maybe?  Thought police, Obama? geeze.

Whenever you guys come out with a poutRAGE story like this you leave out one or two little details that changes the entire...whatever...


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## FrancSevin

mak2 said:


> You guys are soooo funny. Maybe the police came because of potential probation violations? Bank fraud, computer. Maybe? Thought police, Obama? geeze.
> 
> Whenever you guys come out with a poutRAGE story like this you leave out one or two little details that changes the entire...whatever...


 And maybe the came because he was abusing unicorn's.

Your _maybe's_ contain no facts sir. Not anything but the White House dogma.

Here is a fact, 

The movie was made a year ago. The PC police just now show up after the White House has made a point that the Arab world just now got pissed about it.

And the Media was warned to be there for the secret midnite arrest.
Coincidence? 

Pure theater sir.  Classic red herring stuff. 

So, if you don't mind, some of us will continue to pay close attention to the man behind the curtain.


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## muleman RIP

Folks in the middle east remind me of the blacks in the U.S. during the 60's. They have freedoms suddenly thrust on them and a total inability to handle them. They are jobless with time on their hands and only know that their dreams are not being instantly fulfilled. They don't understand that it takes steady work to achieve things so they riot and demand more right now. They seek out a point of contact for their anger and we are it. Sad part is what they destroy in much the same fashion as Watts and other cities we the taxpayer will be stuck paying for. And yes, as a token of atonement our resident socialist in chief will agree to pour even more of our dollars into these crazy folks pockets.


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## FrancSevin

muleman said:


> Folks in the middle east remind me of the blacks in the U.S. during the 60's. They have freedoms suddenly thrust on them and a total inability to handle them. They are jobless with time on their hands and only know that their dreams are not being instantly fulfilled. They don't understand that it takes steady work to achieve things so they riot and demand more right now. They seek out a point of contact for their anger and we are it. Sad part is what they destroy in much the same fashion as Watts and other cities we the taxpayer will be stuck paying for. And yes, as a token of atonement our resident socialist in chief will agree to pour even more of our dollars into these crazy folks pockets.


 
Bad analogy.
The civil rights movement  of the 60's was mostly peaceful.  Demonstators then were much like the TEA' s of today.  Generaly providing peaceful resistance to the laws and rules of segregation.  

Most of the violence came from members of the establishment


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## jimbo

mak2 said:


> You guys are soooo funny. Maybe the police came because of potential probation violations?  Bank fraud, computer.  Maybe?  Thought police, Obama? geeze.
> 
> Whenever you guys come out with a poutRAGE story like this you leave out one or two little details that changes the entire...whatever...


I'm interested in those little details.  While you are at it, how about explaining some other coincidences that have happened in recent month?

There is this one  Gallup is called by the WH on his polling methods due to results not favorable to Obama.  Gallup declines the suggested polling methods.  Gallup sued over a months old case.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/09/06/gallup-doj-axelrod

Obama conducts campaign tour in Florida.  Needs a cause to further class division.  A months old no prosecution case is suddenly rediscovered.  Jessee and Al are called in to fuel the flames.  Suddenly Obama has his racially charged point.  Zimmerman case reopened and Zimmerman arrested.  Trial to begin after the election.  Meanwhile accusations stand.

Attacks on several overseas embassies and consulates, and other locations of US importance.  Many people dead.  Property destroyed.  Violent protestors appear to be at least in part the Muslim Brotherhood encouraged by Obama.  The choices for the Obama administration are to admit failed ME policy, or to find an alternative cause.  Months old video found, from February with no outcry.  Hilary, who draws the short straw in the who gets to spins this one lottery, uses said video as an excuse.  Alleged film maker suddenly "interviewed"  along with appropriate photos in a dead of night pickup.  Obama resumes campaign tour.

More apologies forthcoming.

I do not believe to much in coincidence, especially in recurring coincidences.  Personally, I think the unicorn theory has as much credence as the "might, could have, maybe" excuses of the left.


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## FrancSevin

jimbo said:


> I'm interested in those little details. While you are at it, how about explaining some other coincidences that have happened in recent month?
> 
> There is this one Gallup is called by the WH on his polling methods due to results not favorable to Obama. Gallup declines the suggested polling methods. Gallup sued over a months old case.
> 
> http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/09/06/gallup-doj-axelrod
> 
> Obama conducts campaign tour in Florida. Needs a cause to further class division. A months old no prosecution case is suddenly rediscovered. Jessee and Al are called in to fuel the flames. Suddenly Obama has his racially charged point. Zimmerman case reopened and Zimmerman arrested. Trial to begin after the election. Meanwhile accusations stand.
> 
> Attacks on several overseas embassies and consulates, and other locations of US importance. Many people dead. Property destroyed. Violent protestors appear to be at least in part the Muslim Brotherhood encouraged by Obama. The choices for the Obama administration are to admit failed ME policy, or to find an alternative cause. Months old video found, from February with no outcry. Hilary, who draws the short straw in the who gets to spins this one lottery, uses said video as an excuse. Alleged film maker suddenly "interviewed" along with appropriate photos in a dead of night pickup. Obama resumes campaign tour.
> 
> More apologies forthcoming.
> 
> I do not believe to much in coincidence, especially in recurring coincidences. Personally, I think the unicorn theory has as much credence as the "might, could have, maybe" excuses of the left.


Real or imagined?
 It's all theater during the election year.


Real or Memorex





Just imagine!


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## Kane

*Morning Bell: Why Obama Is Failing the Middle East Meltdown and How to Fix It*

The breaking news keeps breaking when it comes to revelations  surrounding the attacks and protests aimed at U.S. embassies going on  throughout the Islamic world. Protests have spread to at least eight  countries. Reports indicate that four people have been arrested relating  to the killing of the U.S. Ambassador to Libya and three other embassy  staff there. That offers at least the promise of getting more  information about the deliberate attack on the U.S. compound in Benghazi.

 Meanwhile, in the U.S., government authorities identified the man  behind the controversial film purported as the cause for the protests as  Nakoula Basseley Nakoula, a 55-year-old Californian with a shadowy past including many aliases and a criminal record.

 Unlike a Brad Thor novel, however, we can’t just jump to the end of  the story to find out what this all means for American policy in this  troubled part of the world.

 But (again, unlike a Brad Thor novel) without cheating we can predict  how the story is going to end—because the result of the President’s  Middle East policies was predictable from the start.

 Obama’s strategy for this part of the world started out much the way  Jimmy Carter’s did—with acts of conciliation and accommodation. The  President narrowly focused his priorities on three objectives: 1)  withdrawing from Iraq as quickly as possible; 2) engaging with Syria and  Iran; and 3) transforming the U.S. into a neutral party—to negotiate  peace between Palestine and Israel.

 For starters, we know that all three of those objectives have met with abject failure.

 Iraq was not only left a shaky state; it has become a shaky  friend—defying U.S. requests to block Iranian flights that are rearming  the Syrian military so they can kill more Syrian civilians.
 After wasting three years of trying to find common ground with the  totalitarian regimes in Syria and Iran, even the White House has  acknowledged failure, calling for the government in Damascus to step  down and asking for more sanctions on Tehran.

 Finally, the peace process has collapsed—a blessing in disguise,  because if Obama succeeded in creating a Palestinian state today, it  would look an awful lot like the Syrian regime the rest of the region is  trying to bring down—a corrupt state that oppresses its own people, a  state sponsor of terrorism, and a tool of Iran.

 The President’s policy, however, has been more than unsuccessful—the “Obama doctrine”  has taken the cause of protecting U.S. interests in the region  backward—because it relied on a self-imposed agenda of self-weakening.  It included distancing the U.S. from Israel and playing politics with  the U.S. defense budget—where even his own officials acknowledge that if  the automatic cuts required under the Budget Control Act of 2011 go  into effect, they will undermine the readiness and reduce the  capabilities of the armed forces.
 [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dulqc38770s&feature=player_embedded"]new video[/ame] 
(watch our featuring real stories from veterans about the readiness challenges facing our military.)

 The war on terrorism began when Osama bin Laden wrote his fatwa  proclaiming America a paper tiger in withdrawal. With a sharp push, he  believed, the Americans would fall away. It is not the President’s  policies, nor the promises he made at his historic speech in Cairo, nor  the pledges he made to punish the perpetrators of the attack in Benghazi  that America’s enemies are responding to. They believe the U.S., by its  actions, has demonstrated it is in retreat.

 Attacks on embassies and anti-American riots in the street can happen  on any President’s watch. What we need to be most concerned about is  that those who are deliberately plotting against us are on the  offensive—again.
 It is time for a different course:

*Don’t lose focus on Iran*. Tehran is the number one  troublemaker in this part of the world. From its nuclear aspirations to  sponsoring terrorism, plotting attacks of its own, and promoting an  extremist agenda across the region to crushing the aspirations of  freedom from its own people—peace in this part of the planet has no  greater enemy.

*Reassert the need for close strategic cooperation with Israel*.  The instability that continues to sweep the region only underscores the  fact that Israel is the only ally in the region that the U.S can  reliably count on.

*Acknowledge that the war against a global Islamist insurgency isn’t over*.  There are evil people out there trying to kill us, and we have to stop  them. Chasing down their leaders with drone strikes is not  enough—dealing with the “next wave” of transnational terrorism will  require a different course.  The strategy for the next wave must regain the initiative that has been  lost by this President, bring a successful end to the long war, and  leave behind an enduring and sustainable counterterrorism enterprise—one  that can adeptly respond to emerging threats, like the recent attack in  Benghazi.

*Adopt an economic freedom agenda. *The 2012 _Index of Economic Freedom_  confirms that countries of the Middle East lag in many areas of  economic freedom and that the lack of jobs and opportunity is at the  root of much of the anger. It is past time to move the economic freedom  agenda from an afterthought to the centerpiece of U.S. Middle East  policy. Even the best security policy will never be sufficient. We can  lower our own barriers to trade and encourage governments in the Middle  East to do likewise. We can encourage reforms to open up investment,  create jobs, and empower individuals economically.

 To protect America’s interest in this part of the world, we must be:


A faithful, responsible, and enduring ally;
A champion of supporting the cause of liberty and economic freedom; and
A strong, resilient, and confident nation prepared to defend itself, its allies, and its interests.
 It will take that kind of shift in U.S. policies to weather this crisis well.


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## Danang Sailor

Melensdad said:


> Peel off the tinfoil, it IS happening in the United States.  Midnight knocks on the door.  Welcome to the United States of Chicago.
> 
> Literal brownshirts scoop up filmmaker for . . . ?  Displeasing the Boss?
> 
> Behavior that get rewarded gets repeated.  This bodes ill.
> 
> Alleged 'Innocence of Muslims' filmmaker taken in for interview - latimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This guy made a really crappy movie about Islam.  That is legal.  We now are squashing free speech because foreigners may find it offensive?  Or is that just an excuse to cover up the incompetence of Obama's foreign policy which has led to a total melt down of the middle east?
> 
> Here, Obama's new ambassador to Libya claims its the movies fault, and that the attacks were NOT pre-planned to celebrate 9/11 or for retaliation of the killing of their #2 al Quaeda leader => http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/09/ambassador-susan-rice-libya-attack-not-premeditated/
> 
> And here, the government of Libya claims to have warned the USA 3 days in advance of 9/11 that violence on 9/11 was planned => http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/15/world/meast/libya-diplomats-warning/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
> 
> And here again, Libya's government proclaims the attacks were pre-planned taking months to coordinate => http://www.politico.com/blogs/polit...doubt-consulate-attack-preplanned-135664.html



One small point on this:  The "honorable" Ms Rice is our ambassador to the UN, not Libya.


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## Danang Sailor

mak2 said:


> You guys are soooo funny. Maybe the police came because of potential probation violations?  Bank fraud, computer.  Maybe?  Thought police, Obama? geeze.
> 
> Whenever you guys come out with a poutRAGE story like this* you leave out one or two little details that changes the entire...whatever...*



One or two little details:

1.  The authorities knew who made this movie and where he lived for weeks before the midnight visit.

2.  The feds questioned him, and then released him.  This is confirmed by LA Sheriff's Office spokesman Steven Whitmore.

3.  Since the authorities have "blown his cover" and his identity and address are now public knowledge, the man has gone into
hiding in fear of his life.

4.  Confirming this, Whitmore also stated, “He is gone.  We don’t know where he went. He said he is not  going back to his
home.”

5.  He *is* on probation, having served twelve of twenty-one months of a check-kiting scheme.  Since he was released and
not returned to prison, apparently there was no problem with his probation status.

Regarding points 3 & 4, it appears there was a leak somewhere in the authorities' offices, as there were more media people on
scene for the midnight event than there were police.  It almost seems that someone wanted his identity placed before the
public in order to make him a target.  Nah, no one could possibly have such an ulterior motive, could they? 

If you need any more little details, I'll see what I can find.


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## jimbo

Danang Sailor said:


> One or two little details:
> 
> 1.  The authorities knew who made this movie and where he lived for weeks before the midnight visit.
> 
> 2.  The feds questioned him, and then released him.  This is confirmed by LA Sheriff's Office spokesman Steven Whitmore.
> 
> 3.  Since the authorities have "blown his cover" and his identity and address are now public knowledge, the man has gone into
> hiding in fear of his life.
> 
> 4.  Confirming this, Whitmore also stated, “He is gone.  We don’t know where he went. He said he is not  going back to his
> home.”
> 
> 5.  He *is* on probation, having served twelve of twenty-one months of a check-kiting scheme.  Since he was released and
> not returned to prison, apparently there was no problem with his probation status.
> 
> Regarding points 3 & 4, it appears there was a leak somewhere in the authorities' offices, as there were more media people on
> scene for the midnight event than there were police.  It almost seems that someone wanted his identity placed before the
> public in order to make him a target.  Nah, no one could possibly have such an ulterior motive, could they?
> 
> If you need any more little details, I'll see what I can find.


Where is Mak?.  He can provide those little details


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## Melensdad

Government sponsored terrorism by the government itself.  Pull people out of their beds.  Make them fear for their life.  Put them in a situation where they are at peril and must stay 'on the run' to survive.  

Doesn't sound like what America should be.


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## jimbo

Melensdad said:


> Government sponsored terrorism by the government itself.  Pull people out of their beds.  Make them fear for their life.  Put them in a situation where they are at peril and must stay 'on the run' to survive.
> 
> Doesn't sound like what America should be.


It doesn't sound like what America ought to be, but it sometimes looks like what America is becoming.  From the jackbooted thugs allowed to intimidate voters, Zimmerman, who is also the subject of threats, Gallup, and now the hauling of a person in for questioning after making sure the press is on hand to spin the story, there seems to be more than a little threatening going on.


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## Danang Sailor

As an aside, the ABC News online story about Ann Rice's comments noted in the OP currently has 765 comments; exactly
*three* of those comments are _somewhat_ supportive of Rice and her boss.  I've never seen such a one-sided response to a story before!

Just thought you folks might be interested.


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## grizzer

Danang Sailor said:


> As an aside, the ABC News online story about Ann Rice's comments noted in the OP currently has 765 comments; exactly
> *three* of those comments are _somewhat_ supportive of Rice and her boss. I've never seen such a one-sided response to a story before!
> 
> Just thought you folks might be interested.


 
comments sometimes have better info than the original piece!


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## mak2

He was on probation for bank fraud with a computer.  Part of the probation agreement was he was not allowed to use the computer or cause a computer to be used.  A video he made appeared on internet.  His probation officer had him questionied.  OHHHH nooooo, what's next FEMA camps?  





jimbo said:


> Where is Mak?.  He can provide those little details


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## FrancSevin

mak2 said:


> He was on probation for bank fraud with a computer. Part of the probation agreement was he was not allowed to use the computer or cause a computer to be used. A video he made appeared on internet. His probation officer had him questionied. OHHHH nooooo, what's next FEMA camps?


 

Missing the point entirely.  Onca again just so you can post something sarcastic.

The man is now exposed because the FEDs made a point of getting news coverage.  This so the lie could be validated and Barry could support his apology to the Arab world. Their excuse ,and his, are now patented.


No one says it wasn't Legal.  Just seems innappropriate.

Sacrificing an American for the good of the cause?  Is that now OK?


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## jimbo

mak2 said:


> He was on probation for bank fraud with a computer.  Part of the probation agreement was he was not allowed to use the computer or cause a computer to be used.  A video he made appeared on internet.  His probation officer had him questionied.  OHHHH nooooo, what's next FEMA camps?


Mak, he has been on probation for months, the video has been on the internet for months.  The LEO knew where he lived for months.  It's the timing, the invited press, and the release of his address.


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## mak2

Actually he voluneerily went to the Police station with his attornies.  The reason the Feds interviewed him is becaues of federal crimes.  If anything this sounds like a publicity stunt on his part.  AP was the first to know and he requested the police escort.  Anyway, I find it halirous who the RWers will ally themselves with and defend when Obama hate is involved.    Just another fantasy attack on Obama.  What was Obama suppose to do, ban the media from the Cerritos.  OMG that outrage that would have caused.  





jimbo said:


> Mak, he has been on probation for months, the video has been on the internet for months.  The LEO knew where he lived for months.  It's the timing, the invited press, and the release of his address.


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## mak2

The clip was first posted on YouTube July 2 by a man identified as Bacile. Wednesday, the Associated Press quoted the man saying that he made a two-hour film for $5 million. That budget seems unreasonably high given the poor quality of the footage.

Bacile's name does not appear in several public and private databases. In an interview with the Atlantic magazine, someone who worked on the film said that Bacile is, in fact, a pseudonym. The man behind the movie reportedly went into hiding after U.S. Ambassador Chris Stevens and three other Americans were killed in a Tuesday night attack on the Benghazi, Libya, consulate.

http://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...film-sparks-violence-20120912,0,1437715.story


Nakoula is believed to use the alias Sam Bacile, which was the name a caller who took credit for the film gave to the AP and the Wall Street Journal.


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## FrancSevin

mak2 said:


> Actually he voluneerily went to the Police station with his attornies. The reason the Feds interviewed him is becaues of federal crimes. If anything this sounds like a publicity stunt on his part. AP was the first to know and he requested the police escort. Anyway, I find it halirous who the RWers will ally themselves with and defend when Obama hate is involved. Just another fantasy attack on Obama. What was Obama suppose to do, ban the media from the Cerritos. OMG that outrage that would have caused.


 
The left always claims the high ground for anyones rights. When the right does so you find it humorous?

Interesting what you find funny.

This is all about making the USA responsible for the 26 violent uprisings in the Muslim world. But not our current leadership. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! They are not responsible for it.

It is that little guy speaking freely. Yeah, the Coptic Christain! Blame him!

Make everyone in the formerly great USA afraid to speak their mind. Because the religious right extremist in a foreign land are offended.

Meanwhile Fearless Fosdicks' foreign policies continue to inflame the Arab world. It's OK though.  We have lots of little folks here in America. Surely there is another _wacko American_ shouting out against the Hypocracy, the hate and prejudice, found in the religion of peace.


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## Melensdad

From the Bob Owens Blog:


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## Kane

*Anti-Islam Filmmaker Donated Million Dollars To Obama Campaign*


Blame the movie.
Blame the movie.
Blame the movie.

Even  though "the movie" was on YouTube for months prior to the collective  indignation of thousands of Middle Eastern Islamists all coming together  on the eleventh anniversary of September 11th (through a wild  coincidence, no doubt), we are being told by our government and our  media overlords that we must blame the movie.

You see, if we  blame the movie for the burning of our foreign outposts and the brutal  murders of four Americans (including our Libyan ambassador who was  reportedly raped), we won't blame the burners and the looters and the  murderers and the rapists.

You see, if we blame the movie for the  Middle East burning, we won't blame the Islamists who are doing the  burning and looting and raping and murdering.

Which means we  won't further connect the dots and blame Obama's failed Middle East  policy; the Obama Doctrine of backing away from the region and allowing  events to unfold as America stands idly by -- as the Islamists in the  Muslim Brotherhood grab hold of power in Egypt, a country that was once  our largest and closest ally.

Blame the filmmaker.
Hunt him.
Out him.
Demonize him.
Burn the straw man!

And  all at the direction of a president of the United States who has sworn  to uphold the Constitution, you know, the same Constitution that  treasures the right of free expression and speech above all else.

But no one asks … What about Bill Maher?

Bill Maher?

Bill  Maher made a comedy/documentary called "Religulous" that's most famous  for mercilessly mocking Christianity. But what people forget is that the  last twenty-minutes or so of the film make a damning case against  Islam.

Bill Maher made a film that mocked Islam.

Oh, yes, he did.

Bill Maher also contributed $1 million to a pro-Obama super PAC.

And  I'm sure that upon being reminded of this, Secretary of State Hillary  Clinton will tremble with self-righteous indignation and demand Maher  take his money back.

After all, if movies create the terrorists who in turn create the terrorism, what about Bill Maher?

And  what if the terrorists learn that the president of the United States is  benefitting from a million dollar contribution given by a filmmaker who  mocked Islam? How will Hillary Clinton claim with any credibility that  the United States government has no connection to this outrage? How will  White House spokesman Jay Carney say this with any credibility:

“The  reason why there is unrest is because of the film,” he said at one  point. “This is in response to the film.” At another moment, he said,  “The cause of the unrest was a video.” At yet another, “These protests  were in reaction to a video that had spread to the region.”

And the lapdog media just can't stop humping a leg of lies.

It's weird, though, isn't it?

I  mean, how Hollywood has been silent in its defense of the filmmaker  Obama is currently scapegoating (and in some cases, Hollywood is grabbing a torch), even as they embrace Bill Maher.

Well, I guess some anti-Islamic filmmakers are more equal than others.

And thank heavens, we have Barack Obama to tell us who the more equal ones are.

MORE: Now that we know movies create terrorism, the White House must stop Sony's "Killing bin Laden" film.



stolen from The Onion.


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## Kane




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## FrancSevin

Good posts Kane.

Just a little foot note.

According to the Presidentof Lybia today, the raid on the consul building and the "safe house" was obviously co-ordinated and not the result of any spontainous demostration.  His claim was that a simultaineous demostration actually started hours after the Egyptions attack our Embassy in Cairo.

Accordingto him, there was no demostration against any movie.He called such speculation a ruse.


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## Melensdad

If the attack was 'spontaneous' as the Obama administration claims then why were there Rocket Propelled Grenades used?  Seems to me that you don't just walk around with an RPG.


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## FrancSevin

Melensdad said:


> If the attack was 'spontaneous' as the Obama administration claims then why were there Rocket Propelled Grenades used? Seems to me that you don't just walk around with an RPG.


 
The esteemed prresident of Lybia shares your view. As do I and many, many Americans.

In a relaeted story, a leader of the Brotherhood in Egypt, who's own brother was killed in a recent US Drone bombing, stated that he has never seen the movie in question.  He has only heard of it.  It was not a motivation for his hate of America..


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## JEV

Well, at the risk of speaking my mind and getting myself banned (again), I have officially place mak2 on my ignore list. This was suggested recently, and I think it's a great idea. Buh-bye mak-y-poo! Enjoy the Kool Aid.


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## FrancSevin

JEV said:


> Well, at the risk of speaking my mind and getting myself banned (again), I have officially place mak2 on my ignore list. This was suggested recently, and I think it's a great idea. Buh-bye mak-y-poo! Enjoy the Kool Aid.


 

 Aw now be nice. Mak2 is just trying to make new friends.


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## Melensdad

FrancSevin said:


> Aw now be nice. Mak2 is just trying to make new friends.



I don't understand why anyone would want to ignore a view that is contrary.  Does not a dissenting viewpoint help hone your own belief and make your points sharper?


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## jimbo

Melensdad said:


> I don't understand why anyone would want to ignore a view that is contrary.  Does not a dissenting viewpoint help hone your own belief and make your points sharper?


Neither do I.  If I have a problem with a post, I will so state.  Otherwise dissenting views are how I learn.  

I sometimes I wonder how many ignore lists I am on, but I don't wonder for very long.


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## FrancSevin

Melensdad said:


> I don't understand why anyone would want to ignore a view that is contrary. Does not a dissenting viewpoint help hone your own belief and make your points sharper?


 
Absolutely. So long as we discuss the person's view and not spin off topic discussing personality traits.

I enjoy Mak2's explanations of his divergent points of view. More fun than going to an Arcade. Besides, it is a well known fact that the human brain is the only tool which gets sharper with use. Or is it the human tongue?


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## FrancSevin

jimbo said:


> Neither do I. If I have a problem with a post, I will so state. Otherwise dissenting views are how I learn.
> 
> I sometimes I wonder how many ignore lists I am on, but I don't wonder for very long.


 
I'm sure I am placed there often.

For me the ignore button is a cop out. To suffer fools is part of what one must do to endure the fatigue of freedom.  
Either you stand the heat or git out of the kitchen.


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## Danang Sailor

I never gave any thought to whether or not I'm on any Ignore lists and if so, how many it might be.  Well, I've taken the time (at
least two seconds) to give it some consideration, and have come to the conclusion that I wasted at least two seconds.  If someone
wants to ignore me they'll have to live without the pearls being thrown at their feet.


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## mak2

They are afraid what happened to me will happen to them.  No, not the head injury I found something in my studies that the Republicans were completely wrong aobut.  Now I approach everything with a critical eye, no matter which side says it.  On most forums I am to the right of center, most of my views are very right wing, yet many here cant tolerate even a little dissent.  Sad really.  I hang out here cause I like hearing what the far right is thinking and sometimes there is something the right is right about.   Regardless it gives me a different way to look at things "out there."   





Melensdad said:


> I don't understand why anyone would want to ignore a view that is contrary.  Does not a dissenting viewpoint help hone your own belief and make your points sharper?


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## Kane

mak2 said:


> They are afraid what happened to me will happen to them.  No, not the head injury I found something in my studies that the Republicans were completely wrong aobut.  Now I approach everything with a critical eye, no matter which side says it.  On most forums I am to the right of center, most of my views are very right wing, yet many here cant tolerate even a little dissent.  Sad really.  I hang out here cause I like hearing what the far right is thinking and sometimes there is something the right is right about.   Regardless it gives me a different way to look at things "out there."


Healthy debate is one thing, mak2.  But you would defend this president if he said the grass is blue and the sky is green.  

In this particular case, the entire administration is under order to maintain a lock-step front that the chaos in the Middle East has nothing to do with a thousand years of hatred for the West and Obama's policies, but is in response to an obscure youtube video.

The entire world knows better.

.


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## Kane

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYyug3Ac7HU"]"Obama, the Final Straw!" - YouTube[/ame]


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## mak2

Everybody says I make these discussions personal.  Not true in this case, and neither is your statement.  





Kane said:


> *Healthy debate is one thing, mak2.  But you would defend this president if he said the grass is blue and the sky is green*.
> 
> In this particular case, the entire administration is under order to maintain a lock-step front that the chaos in the Middle East has nothing to do with a thousand years of hatred for the West and Obama's policies, but is in response to an obscure youtube video.
> 
> The entire world knows better.
> 
> .


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## SShepherd

Melensdad said:


> I don't understand why anyone would want to ignore a view that is contrary. Does not a dissenting viewpoint help hone your own belief and make your points sharper?


 I have no problem with debate, I do have a problem when people are condecending and belittling.


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## FrancSevin

Now that we have diverted the thread to personal items, how about we get back ot the topic.

Has anyone noticed that the Muslims are now burning pictures of Barry, not Bush?

After all the friendly handshakes, after all the ordinance, blood and treasure Barry has sent over to them, after all the promises to help the Brotherhood and democracy in the region, why are they burning him, the annointed one, the emphathic one, the " _I am your brother_" one, in effigy?


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## loboloco

FrancSevin said:


> Now that we have diverted the thread to personal items, how about we get back ot  the topic.
> 
> Has anyone noticed that the Muslims are now burning pictures of Barry, not Bush?
> 
> After all the friendly handshakes, after all the ordinance, blood and treasure Barry has sent over to them, after all the promises to help the Brotherhood and democracy, why are they burning him, the annointed one, the emphathic one, the " _I am your brother_" one, in effigy?


Because they are abunch of fanatic idiots.  Obama is the best friend they have in the western world at this moment.
By preference, we should be viewing these pieces of garbage thru a glassy reflection caused by multiple nuclear strikes.


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## CityGirl

Not the first "brownshirt" raid.  There is no free country in a permananent state of emergency. Does the name Brandon J Raub mean anything to you?


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## SShepherd

FrancSevin said:


> Now that we have diverted the thread to personal items, how about we get back ot the topic.
> 
> Has anyone noticed that the Muslims are now burning pictures of Barry, not Bush?
> 
> After all the friendly handshakes, after all the ordinance, blood and treasure Barry has sent over to them, after all the promises to help the Brotherhood and democracy in the region, why are they burning him, the annointed one, the emphathic one, the " _I am your brother_" one, in effigy?


bBecause they view the leader of everything they despise(the little satan-america) as weak. Men in their culture never apologise, and by the leader of the free world doing it they view America as weak. The more they burn our embassies and kill ambassadors with no swift punishment emboldens them even more.


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## FrancSevin

CityGirl said:


> Not the first "brownshirt" raid. There is no free country in a permananent state of emergency. Does the name Brandon J Raub mean anything to you?


 
Brandon Raub was a member of the miltary. They do not have freedom of speech in the same manner as civilians.

That said, I do hope he prevails  in courtsmartial


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## mak2

I thought he was a former Marine.


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## mak2

And besides, he was ED'd.  You know what that means CG.  From what I just read it sounded like I would have called Psych if he was in my ER.


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## CityGirl

FrancSevin said:


> Brandon Raub was a member of the miltary. They do not have freedom of speech in the same manner as civilians.
> 
> That said, I do hope he prevails in courtsmartial


 He is and was at the time of his detainment, a marine veteran.


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## jimbo

FrancSevin said:


> Brandon Raub was a member of the miltary. They do not have freedom of speech in the same manner as civilians.
> 
> That said, I do hope he prevails  in courtsmartial


If memory serves me, Brandon Raub is ex military.  The photos of him in full dress uniform, I believe are older photos.

Too much of this going on.  Raub has, like the rest of us, first amendment rights.  It seems like anyone who crosses Barry, or even who is needed to make a case, as in 
Zimmerman, is thrown under the bus.


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## CityGirl

mak2 said:


> And besides, he was ED'd. You know what that means CG. From what I just read it sounded like I would have called Psych if he was in my ER.


 I hope they don't follow some posts here.  I 'spect many of us might be "ED'd"


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## FrancSevin

CityGirl said:


> He is and was at the time of his detainment, a marine veteran.


 
I concede your point. It certainly does appear to be another squash effort against an outspoken civilian.


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## jimbo

I was thinking the same thing.  I'm ex military, I have been known to speak out against the government, and I live 2 miles from the Chesterfield police station.  Am I next?


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## Danang Sailor

jimbo said:


> I was thinking the same thing.  I'm ex military, I have been known to speak out against the government, and I live 2 miles from the Chesterfield police station. * Am I next?*



Probably not.  In my opinion he's a total nutcase, as are all those who believe our own government planned and executed
the attacks on 9/11/01, but that is not a reason to detain him.  As far as I can determine having your bubble a bit off-center
isn't illegal here, at least not yet.  If it becomes so I'm going to go into hiding since so many folks, even on here, are sure my
fears of the plans being laid for us the Islamic Supremacists are also unrealistic (ie, crazy).

Maybe we should all worry.


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