# New Shower: Tile or 3 piece kit



## Doc

I have a nice space for a fair sized shower in my basement.  It will be a 5' L x 35 w x 81 h.   

I could easily go with one of the kits that include a shower base and 3 piece wall kit and get the job done.  Guessing this would be the least maintenance type of shower also.  

Or I could make the base and tile the shower area.  Tile does look very nice in the pics of sample bath rooms but with the grout discoloration and maintenance plus more seams which would equate to more places for potential leaks it sure has it negatives.

I have never put in either type of shower and have to wonder what I am missing.  What are the advantages / disadvantages of both types of showers that I have not considered at this point?


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## bczoom

Doc said:


> What are the advantages / disadvantages of both types of showers that I have not considered at this point?


Done properly, tile will last a lot longer then an enclosure.

Tile is cold!  Make sure you have access to the water supply before you need to step on the tile as you'll want it up to temperature before stepping on it.

For either setup, if you have access to the plumbing from the outside, that could be a huge benefit in future years.  E.g. lets say something goes bad between the faucet and the shower head.  If you can get to that plumbing by tearing off a sheet of plywood on the back-side of the wall, that's a lot easier then tearing out the shower wall that's tiled or part of the enclosure.


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## muleman RIP

No matter what you go with make sure you use greenrock sheeting around the area. Special moisture resistant wallboard made for damp areas. Don't forget about venting the steam above it. I prefer the 4ft. square enclosure shower with a seat in the corner myself. When I was getting over my heart work it was nice to have while the wife helped me shower. We still use it together daily.


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## Big Dog

I installed one-piece units when I built in 1997, they are holding up quite well. LASCO is the manufacturer name if I recall. The size options are what I liked at the time, big boy wanted a 42" deep. Ain't no shoulders bumping the curtain when I'm in it ............ ain't gonna be so pretty if they have to come out ..........


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## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Tile does look nice but the amount of work involved and potential for failure has always intimidated me.


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## FrancSevin

I agree with all of the above.

I am having to make the same decision myself  as we have total ripped out our master bathroom this week.

The original builder did not use greenboard and the tile was poorly grouted.  No moisture barriers anywhere.

consequences?

Black mold everywhere.

Lessons learned

Seal everything basepan walls and ceiling wit moisture barriers. 6 mil poly
Blued studs or pressure treated studs (especialy below grade). Use only anti mold insulation. very important to preven condesation  inside the walls.

Be sure to include a good vent system.

Now, as to finish, how often do you wish to clean the shower?

For me the prefab units are far easier to install, more forgiving, if your tape measure is as unreliable as mine seems to be, and far easier to seal up.  But, only the high end ones  look good.  Most look like something you stole out of a Mobile home.
Install after buildout,,,,10 man hours tops.

Tile will take 40 hours and several trips back to "Lowes" for all the things you break or just forgot in your planning. This after you spend many more hours getting the walls and floor properly prepared for the application. Even if you have doneit before.

And mounting tile means more prep work than required for a prefab install. By a factor of four.

Watch Holmes on Holmes next Sunday.  He almost always gets into a "shower" re-install.  Great source of ideas.


As for me, I will likely be taking the hard road as we want to "granite" one entire wall of the bathroom. Then incorporate that into the shower stall.  This ain't my first time at this rodeo but I wantit to please the Misses.

 I should be able to report on the project finish sometime in 2013.


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## rlk

Doc, now is the time to think about handicap access.  You may not need it now, but in the future, your family may have need for a shower that will accommodate a wheel chair or a walker.  So, while you are in the planning stages, think about a shower with no threshold that will allow handicap access.

A lot of retirees are moving into my area and having a handicap bathroom is a big selling point.

You can probably get some ideas at:  http://www.ada.gov/

Bob


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## JEV

Here are a couple of tiled showers I have done recently. For backer I use 1/2" Hardy backer (cement board) and tape all joints for a watertite seal. Tiles are always grouted using liquid grout enhancer in lieu of water, which makes for a tough joint what will not fall out. The floor pans of acrylic or fiberglass are always set and leveled in a bed of mortar, with the threshold cavity filled with Great Stuff foam.






I even tiled the ceiling for this one.
















This one was on an interior wall, so I was able to put pockets in to store shower items.






I just finished this one last week (lousy camera on my Blackberry) with a Firenze base and wall kit purchased by the customer at Home Depot. It's 34 x 60 with 73" high walls. This style installs right on the studs and teh drywall is brought down to the wall unit cap. She wanted doors on it, but I talked her out of them because she will be assisting her elderly mother in the shower, and the doors would just be in her way. They can always installed when her Mom is no longer with her.






Also used glass tiles with a ceramic rope feature cap in lieu of a boring laminate backsplash.






Tile gives you the most flexability for design options, and teh acrylic and fiberglass units offer the least maintenance. I boils down to what "She who must be obeyed" wants to accomplish on the labor of YOUR back.

Today I begin gutting my 9'-8" x 10'-6" master bath for a complete makeover of Jacuzzi tub, 2 vanities, 8' countertop with flush sinks and new chair height toilet (moving the toilet across the room). Floor will be heated and ceramic tiled. God only knows when it will be finished, as the shoemaker's kids often go barefoot. At least will have the halway bath to move into during construction.


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## Doc

Very good points guys.  Thanks.   
Stores do not carry the high end enclosures so I have only the pictures to go by.  Venting is important and I do have that included in the overall plan.  A coworker recently redid his master bath and put LED lights above the shower.  They worked out perfect for that application.  I plan to do the same over our shower.  
I had not considered wheelchair access but that is a good thought since the other two bathrooms have tubs.  this would be the only possibility.  I have considered enclosures with the seat, but hated to have a seat there 99% of the time and not be needed ...and possibly be in the way.  I have seen some that have a removable seat feature.  That might be a possibility.


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## Doc

Nice work JEV.   The bath I'm planning will be 13 x 12.  I am leaving room in one corner for a sauna rather than a jacuzzi.  The infrared saunas sound very interesting.


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## bczoom

Wheelchair access.... in the basement?  If you can't step 3" into a shower, what are you doing on steps?


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## bczoom

Doc said:


> Nice work JEV.   The bath I'm planning will be 13 x 12.  I am leaving room in one corner for a sauna rather than a jacuzzi.  The infrared saunas sound very interesting.


OK boys, since Doc has the money for that thing, let's go all-out on his shower.


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## FrancSevin

Those look really well done JEV.

How did you manage the tile to the ceiling? Liguid nails or something?

I have thought about it but never tried the idea in practice. What is the trick?






This is a mirror image of the "master bath" layout of my current project. More like a closet than a "Master Bath."
I am going outside the foundation 2-3 feet along the wall where the door is. After setting a six foot vanity there the Toilet will be pushed into an alcove in the wall leaving a 5 foot wide floor about 7 feet long.

Seems simple on paper but foundations, alterations to the HVAC, electrical, and plumbing all require permits and inspectors. The actual construction will be a cake walk by comparison.


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## FrancSevin

Doc said:


> Very good points guys. Thanks.
> Stores do not carry the high end enclosures so I have only the pictures to go by. Venting is important and I do have that included in the overall plan. A coworker recently redid his master bath and put LED lights above the shower. They worked out perfect for that application. I plan to do the same over our shower.
> I had not considered wheelchair access but that is a good thought since the other two bathrooms have tubs. this would be the only possibility. I have considered enclosures with the seat, but hated to have a seat there 99% of the time and not be needed ...and possibly be in the way. I have seen some that have a removable seat feature. That might be a possibility.


 
Doc, If you are thinking of doing wheel chair access, consider the European design where the bathroom and shower floor are integrated as  the same single unit.


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## waybomb

None of the above.

We are going to do the same thing we did on out kitchen backsplash in our bathroom. Solid pieces of glass, with special paint on the backside made just for the application. Any Sherwin Williams color can be used. 

Get a counter top guy that uses a water jet to come out, make the templates, jet the glass out, and then apply the special paint. 

Then all you do is glue it to the cement board.

We're going to use a granite custom made shower pan as well.

The cleanest sharpest look you can get in my opinion.

ps - we are also going to install a tanning unit on one wall, so you get a tan while you shower, and a Kohler watertile system It's gonna be soos baddass.


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## Doc

Interesting Fred ....and probably very expensive.  Might be out of my range ...but still I'd love to see a picture of a shower done this way.


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## JEV

FrancSevin said:


> Those look really well done JEV.
> 
> How did you manage the tile to the ceiling? Liguid nails or something?


 No liquid nails, just used thinset with the appropriate techniques applied. Go here to see the step-by-step process of tiling a ceiling. It's really easier than you might imagine.


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## FrancSevin

JEV said:


> No liquid nails, just used thinset with the appropriate techniques applied. Go here to see the step-by-step process of tiling a ceiling. It's really easier than you might imagine.


 
Thanks JEV. Useful stuff there.  Makes sense actually.  I put it in my favorites.

Looking at pictures of your work I see how you can afford the gas for that little dinghy you drive. Nice workmanship

Wish I had half the talent. 
I'm old school, just keep doing it over & over till I get it right. That way what I saved, by doing it myself, I make up for in excess materials, parts and off cuts.


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## XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

FrancSevin said:


> I'm old school,  just keep doing it over & over till I get it right.  That way what I saved, by doing it myself, I make up for in excess materials, parts and  off cuts.


You aren't the only one doing that method!


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## BRGTold

Doc:: there are alot of products out there besides ceramic (labor )..and Big Box Shower kits...I've done a few Shower units with Swanstone..kinda like Corian..and is about 5/16" thick... http://www.swanstone.com/index.php?page=landing_ts     ..They have all kinds of acc. like shampoo shelfs and such.. I would put it over DuraRock..and never have to worry about it...


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## JEV

FrancSevin said:


> Thanks JEV. Useful stuff there.  Makes sense actually.  I put it in my favorites.
> 
> Looking at pictures of your work *I see how you can afford the gas for that little dinghy you drive*. Nice workmanship
> 
> Wish I had half the talent.
> I'm old school, just keep doing it over & over till I get it right. That way what I saved, by doing it myself, I make up for in excess materials, parts and off cuts.


 Thanks for the compliment. BTW, the dingy in the avatar is not mine. I no longer own a watercraft, but I do drive a 12 mpg Cheby van that moans when I drive past a gas station.


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## FrancSevin

JEV said:


> Thanks for the compliment. BTW, the dingy in the avatar is not mine. I no longer own a watercraft, but I do drive a 12 mpg Cheby van that moans when I drive past a gas station.


 
That's sad to hear. I like the look of that boat and simply presumed too much from the picture. Still, I like your style.


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## waybomb

Doc:

Glass Primer Co. - search around in this site and they have pics of all sorts of applications:  http://www.glassprimer.com/

And for the suntan unit : http://www.prosunsunshower.com/

And Kohler water tile system, which would include a showerhead opr two, body sprays, steam, DTV controls, etc : http://designerplumbingoutlet.com/kohler-bath--bodysprays---watertiles.htmlhttp://www.us.kohler.com/onlinecata...ction=2&nsubsection=3&category=12&nitem=cat12

The glass is cheap. Waterjetting is also relatively cheap. Paint is $350 a gallon. But not alot of paint is needed.

Attached a pic of the kitchen backsplash to give you an idea of how painted glass looks


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## rlk

Doc said:


> I have considered enclosures with the seat, but hated to have a seat there 99% of the time and not be needed ...and possibly be in the way.  I have seen some that have a removable seat feature.  That might be a possibility.



Doc, you can buy a standalone shower/tub seat at most any high-end drug store.  They are made out of aluminum and plastic, so rust is not a problem.  We have one for when we need it.  Most of the time it is stored in the attic.

Bob


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## crums

I've had the pleasure of helping Doc on the bathroom project, when I left last weekend he looked like he may need that seat in the shower!


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## Doc

damn, the truth hurts.  The shower is finally in and working thanks to a big assist by crums.   And yep, I could have used a seat in there.   My back has been giving me fits the past couple of weeks.  Finally called the doctor today for pain meds but no joy there.   And today a whole bunch of lumber was delivered to be used to build 64 feet of permanent dock down at the river.  My back hurts worse just looking at the lumber and big bertha sitting there.    Big Bertha is a 75 pound pole driver we use to drive the 4x4's into the river.  fun fun, thank goodness some young backs like crums will be there to do the heavy work.


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## rlk

Doc, are you sure the back pain is not a kidney problem?  If you're not sure, you might want that checked.

Bob


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## Doc

I'm not sure of anything.  This is in the lower back where I've had back pain plenty of times before but this is different.  It's not going away, so I do have a doc appointment Monday.  That is the soonest they could get me in.


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