HELP, I want 4 channel video recording, instant replay playback on TV

[Melensdad]

So I need some computer help.

At my fencing club we have 4 competition fencing "strips" and I want to record some fencing action and be able to play back the action for instant replay purposes. I'm not really looking for long term storage of the video.

I have a surplus Windows PC, older model, not sure of the speed or memory but assuming it meets minimal standards that will be the base of my equipment.

Because the action in fencing is very fast, I'm looking at 4K video with a minimum of a 30 frame per second capture rate. 60 FPS would be better, but I doubt my budget will allow it.

This camera (BELOW) looks like it would do what than I need, it has AI tracking, which I probably don't even need. But panning side to side to track action would be a bonus. I'm really only concerned about recording the action that occurs in the middle of the fencing strip, no matter how good the video, I just don't think a camera like this, mounted on the ceiling of the room, will give me a good angle or image at the end of the strip. As 70+% of the action takes place in the "middle" that is the area of my concern for recording.

Amazon.com

Pretty sure that recording 1 bout should be straight forward.

But what do I need to buy to record up to 4 bouts simultaneously? Will I need a splitter? Or perhaps 4 video capture cards in the PC? I want to be able to play on up to 2 TV sets.

 

[tommu56]

I've been looking at cameras for camp and narrowed it down to Reolink they have 4K cameras and systems


Does Reolink go record all the time?


All Reolink cameras except battery-powered cameras can record continuously to a micro SD card or to the HDD of the Reolink NVR. It is called Timer recording on the Reolink software. Reolink cameras can also record continuously to your PC via Reolink Client.


Here's a link to 4 channel system

RLK12-800WTM4 – Smart 4K Dual-Lens Security System with Auto-Zoom Tracking | Reolink Official

RLK12-800WTM4 is a 4K UHD dual-band Wi-Fi security system. It features a 12-channel 2TB HDD NVR, four 4K 8MP dual-lens cameras, up to 16TB storage capacity, auto-zoom tracking, pan & tilt, color night vision, smart person/vehicle/animal detection, and two-way audio.

reolink.com

 

[Melensdad]

I've been looking at cameras for camp and narrowed it down to Reolink they have 4K cameras and systems


Does Reolink go record all the time?


All Reolink cameras except battery-powered cameras can record continuously to a micro SD card or to the HDD of the Reolink NVR. It is called Timer recording on the Reolink software. Reolink cameras can also record continuously to your PC via Reolink Client.


Here's a link to 4 channel system

RLK12-800WTM4 – Smart 4K Dual-Lens Security System with Auto-Zoom Tracking | Reolink Official

RLK12-800WTM4 is a 4K UHD dual-band Wi-Fi security system. It features a 12-channel 2TB HDD NVR, four 4K 8MP dual-lens cameras, up to 16TB storage capacity, auto-zoom tracking, pan & tilt, color night vision, smart person/vehicle/animal detection, and two-way audio.

reolink.com

Problem with MOST security cameras is they have low frame capture rates.

I didn't see a frame rate on your link, but I've seen as low as 7fps, usually they are under 24fps. I need a minimum of 30fps for replay of saber fencing. For a formal tournament, 60fps is minimum standard. But I'm not using it for sanctioned tournaments so I can get away with 30fps.

Ideally we will be running 4 cameras displaying each camera on one of 4 HDTVs. And each needs to be able to do video replay without interfering with the others.

 

[Melensdad]

Going to do a 1 camera test and expand from there if it successful. Will be using an older Windows PC to control.

Just ordered this camera. It is the upgraded version of the camera I linked earlier in the thread. 30fps at 4K resolution. 60fps and 1080 resolution. Professional reviews say its color, autofocus, etc are great. So I guess we will find out.

Amazon.com

OBSBOT Store - OBSBOT Tail Air

OBSBOT Tail Air is an AI-powered PTZ streaming camera, designed to enhance livestreaming experiences across content creation, live shows, house of worship, and more.

www.obsbot.com

 

[Smilingreen]

That camera has a 1/2.8 CCD sensor. Pretty small. Hope you have really good lighting, otherwise at best, you will get major ghosting recorded @ 4K. What version of USB port are you running on your PC? You will need something newer than USB 2. If you are going to try and run 4 cameras, you will need a HD for network recorders, like a WD purple type. Several TB in size, as 4 cameras recording in 4K at the same time is going to pump some major data onto your hard drive.

 

[Melensdad]

That camera has a 1/2.8 CCD sensor. Pretty small. Hope you have really good lighting, otherwise at best, you will get major ghosting recorded @ 4K. What version of USB port are you running on your PC? You will need something newer than USB 2. If you are going to try and run 4 cameras, you will need a HD for network recorders, like a WD purple type. Several TB in size, as 4 cameras recording in 4K at the same time is going to pump some major data onto your hard drive.

Thanks, and I agree, but also in parts I have less concern.

I bought a high speed fiber optic USB 'C' cable to run from the camera to the computer. The computer, a 5 year old Windows PC, has the USB 2 ports, but I can pull the cards and replace the ports as needed.

Honestly if I need to run 1 camera per computer I am willing to buy more computers so that we run 4 separate systems. I half expect that, because these cameras are designed for it, they can be run off of a fairly up to date android tablet, but that gives me recording anxiety.

As for the recording, I really don't need much storage space. But I will need something that can handle the data being dumped very quickly so that is a concern. I only need to save video for a couple hours maximum. So 500MB is theoretically plenty. But I don't know if a standard HD will record the input from 4 simultaneous 4K cameras dumping the data onto a hard drive as fast as the data is arriving. Most of this video is simply going to be saved long enough to be questioned in an "instant replay" review. We can over-write it all the next day.

Anything that needs 'archiving' we will burn it onto some digital media. Anything that needs to be 'saved' will actually be just a few minutes long, (fencing bouts can last from less than 1 minute up to about 12 minutes for a maximum length bout that runs the clock, with extra time allowed for director's action . . . but typically a 15 touch DE saber bout lasts about 3-5 minutes) can be saved onto a simple USB 'thumb drive' because we will use the camera system PRIMARILY for review and replay of action.

To your point about lighting, I totally agree and we already have some new light fixtures purchased and waiting for installation.

 

[Melensdad]

OBSBOT Tail Air camera arrived on Monday.

Started to play with it on Tuesday at the fencing club and the resolution is awesome, the lighting at the club is less than optimal (increasing our lighting is an ongoing project to upgrade), but the camera set for 4K at 30 frames per second, was displaying crystal clear images of motion. So I'm happy with that.

There is only a digital zoom, no optical zoom. So camera placement will be critical. I now know it can be inverted and mounted directly to the ceiling, a fact I was unsure of prior to yesterday. So that should make mounting much easier, rather than making a flat bottom "U" shaped bracket to mount the camera upon, I will be able to simply screw it into the ceiling after I install a simple brass screw socket into a flat piece of wood that I mount on the ceiling.

We were able to get playback and replay on a simple android phone in our experimenting. Passing it through a PC and outputting to a TV set will add a bit of complication but give us more flexibility.

One of our fencing club members is taking the lead on the project, he along with a coach from Chicago who is working on a similar project at his club, paired up yesterday to collaborate at my club. It will be interesting to see the results.

 

[Smilingreen]

OBSBOT Tail Air camera arrived on Monday.

Started to play with it on Tuesday at the fencing club and the resolution is awesome, the lighting at the club is less than optimal (increasing our lighting is an ongoing project to upgrade), but the camera set for 4K at 30 frames per second, was displaying crystal clear images of motion. So I'm happy with that.

There is only a digital zoom, no optical zoom. So camera placement will be critical. I now know it can be inverted and mounted directly to the ceiling, a fact I was unsure of prior to yesterday. So that should make mounting much easier, rather than making a flat bottom "U" shaped bracket to mount the camera upon, I will be able to simply screw it into the ceiling after I install a simple brass screw socket into a flat piece of wood that I mount on the ceiling.

We were able to get playback and replay on a simple android phone in our experimenting. Passing it through a PC and outputting to a TV set will add a bit of complication but give us more flexibility.

One of our fencing club members is taking the lead on the project, he along with a coach from Chicago who is working on a similar project at his club, paired up yesterday to collaborate at my club. It will be interesting to see the results.

View attachment 175695

Glad it is working out well for you. I deal mainly in IP PTZ security cameras. I always utilize the optical zoom in my cameras. Digital zoom just magnifies the pixels. But you probably won't need a optical zoom, being that your subject matter is within 2-10 meters away. Does the camera auto track?

 

[Melensdad]

Glad it is working out well for you. I deal mainly in IP PTZ security cameras. I always utilize the optical zoom in my cameras. Digital zoom just magnifies the pixels. But you probably won't need an optical zoom, being that your subject matter is within 2-10 meters away. Does the camera auto track?

Not planning on using the zoom, and yes it auto tracks.

 

[Melensdad]

So we did a test yesterday at the fencing club and it was a success, using the camera and a laptop. BUT we also discovered a couple things that didn't work great but those things were largely due to old technology limits inside my club, which we are now upgrading.

So in addition to the camera above, I bought a new Lenovo computer. Intel Core 7, 3.9Ghz, with a 512gig hard drive and 32gig of RAM to run the system, picked it up 'refurbished' for $260. Also bought a new 3 band mesh router, close to the latests and greatest.

Going to mount a 32" 4K monitor on a pillar over the top of the strip's scoreboard just below the ceiling. That will be used to display "Instant Replay" videos.

Picked up a Bluetooth 3 key customizable keyboard. The referee will use that to hit the record button. I will attach that to the side of the remote used to control the scoreboard. Probably print up a custom 'box' on a 3-D printer with 2 slots, one for the new Bluetooth triple key controller and and adjacent slot for the scoreboard controller. That puts both remotes into a small, easy to handle, hand holdable, package for the referee to use.

This is the 3 key bluetooth remote:

Amazon.com

Mounted on the video and scoreboard pillar will be a 6 button computer controller. Each button will control a series of "macros" so if there is no referee running the bout, or if we are using the strip for coaching during a private lesson, the buttons will allow the coach to control various video recording lengths and playback.

Using the Stream Deck mini unit, it seems to be the industry standard for this type of keypad.

Amazon.com

 

[Doc]

Very impressive Bob. Good job.
I'm trying to imagine where I could use something like this.

 

[Melensdad]

Very impressive Bob. Good job.
I'm trying to imagine where I could use something like this.

In theory, if this whole set up works, I'll actually have 4 system just like this. This is the prototype for the rest of the club.

Also, there is no reason that 1 computer can't run multiple set ups, but because I like redundancy and don't want a tech problem on one strip to affect the other strips, I will probably buy 4 computers, one for each strip. The computers are only $260 so the total expense is fairly modest even if I have 4 separate systems. Without the redundancy, the total cost would be $770 less but then all the sets up are dependent upon 1 computer.

My biggest fear is an idiot kid plays with the buttons and locks up the system on "strip 1" and that causes us to lose video on strips 2, 3, and 4. We are doing everything to make this close to idiot proof, but even 'good' high school kids can be total idiots.


ALSO, I am already looking at "obsoleting" the 3 button bluetooth remote that the referees would use.

The scoreboard puts out an analog signal to light up lights at the ends of the fencing strip. There should be no reason why we can't tap into the analog feed to trip a bluetooth transmitter to automatically start the instant replay loop. In theory it should work, but I want to get this whole thing up and running quickly, the 3 button bluetooth remote is a quick and dirty way to trigger the replay loop for now.

 

[Melensdad]

Well it looks like OBS Studio software will run an almost unlimited multiple scenes.

So I should be able to have (theoretically)

Scene 1L = Fencing Strip 1 live stream
Scene 1R = Fencing Strip 1 instant replay playback loop
Scene 2L = Fencing Strip 2 live stream
Scene 2R = Fencing Strip 2 instant replay playback loop
Scene 3 L . . . etc etc

BUT . . . it seems to glitch on running 2 playback loops. Live cameras seem to be no problem. Playback loops seem to be insurmountable.

So I may end up being forced to run 4 separate computers, instead of 1 computer running 4 strips. It was actually my original plan and the tech guys seemed to try to talk me out of it . . . but now, after the software seems to be bludgeoning them about their collective heads causing blood to leak from their ears, eyes and noses they may be ready to admit that me, a mere Apple laptop and iPhone user, with only modest brain power, I might have been right all along???

Honestly I don't doubt the tech guys (other club members who are helping) can ultimately make something work, but at what cost and with how much delay? We can literally do everything quickly (1 week) with multiple cheap PCs. But letting them dick around with the software to get 1 piece of hardware work could take them weeks/months of their spare time???

 

[Melensdad]

And the ‘new’ refurbished Lenovo computer died! A replacement is inbound.

But I did manage to install the shelves for the computer, the Stream Deck and run all the wires for a permanent installation. Got the AI camera mounted to the ceiling too.