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Working on the bus finally.

  • Thread starter Thread starter kermit2
  • Start date Start date
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kermit2

Guest
Finally got the key to work on Challenge Mts 601. It seems to have a smoking problem.
I pulled the valve cover off and it was clean underneath.
I pulled the plugs and did a compression check.
#4 cylinder is at 90 lbs where all others are in the 140-160 lb range
#4 spark plug has what looks like tar on it, dripping down from the electrode onto the center electrode.
Would the oil make the compression low?
I only did a dry check.
I figure a valve seal, maybe a valve guide.
I think my next step is to fire it up and run it for awhile and do another check, as it hasn't been fired in at least a year. maybe if an oily residue is on the valve it will burn off.
I have a pic of the plug, seems like the oil dripped on it after it was run.
I'll take any advice I can get as I am used to working on racecars with new motors, this is new territory for me.
The end result is why I'm here.
 

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I'd be tempted to make or buy an air chuck adaptor that will let you presurize that no.4 hole, through the spark plug hole. With it full of compressed air, listen in the intake and exhaust manifolds for air leaking out. This will tell you if the problem is a valve or seat. If you hear nothing excaping, then suspect the rings, as the air is probably excaping past the rings. The tar like residue makes me wonder if the piston rings on no.4 are bad. Can you remove the oil pan without lifting the engine? If you can, maybe you could "overhaul" or re-ring that piston, and hone the bore as well. Just my idea's as to how I would approach this....

Best regards, Kirk

PS Might be a good time for rod and main bearings if the pan is off.....
 
Try going up a heat range or 2 on the plug on that cylinder and run it a little while. Most likely have a ring leaking oil by.
 
Kermit...I know you don't want to hear this, but, you should really take the head off and have it looked over. It probably should have new valve seals on ALL valve stems, also the valve seats should be re-surfaced and "possibly it may need new valve guide's. Then I would go under the engine and remove the oil pan (you can do this without lifting the motor) and pull out #4 piston to see what is going on there.

Without a doubt.....you have one of too things going on, ether, piston ring problems/cylinder bore, or valve seat problems to cause low compression in #4 cylinder and with the head off, I would bet, it "will have to or should be" reconditioned. I realize nobody wants to throw a lot of money in this motor BUT it REALLY should be taken out of the cat and completely gone through so it will be a dependable motor for years to come when put back in
 
weatherby said:
Kermit...I know you don't want to hear this, but, you should really take the head off and have it looked over. It probably should have new valve seals on ALL valve stems, also the valve seats should be re-surfaced and "possibly it may need new valve guide's. Then I would go under the engine and remove the oil pan (you can do this without lifting the motor) and pull out #4 piston to see what is going on there.

Without a doubt.....you have one of too things going on, ether, piston ring problems/cylinder bore, or valve seat problems to cause low compression in #4 cylinder and with the head off, I would bet, it "will have to or should be" reconditioned. I realize nobody wants to throw a lot of money in this motor BUT it REALLY should be taken out of the cat and completely gone through so it will be a dependable motor for years to come when put back in
Click to expand...
although its a little off in left foield i have seen it twice in ne year and thats a wrist pin walking out and grooving the cylinder bore once in my snow trac and the other time in our shop truck 360 dodge also to amend 300 h%h's post if you use a cylinder leak down test if the compression is leaking in to the ol pan when you pressureize the cylinder you can remove the oil caap and hear the leakage.if yoou hear leakage in the oil pan you most likely could have bad rings also could be a cracked piston or a gouge in the bore lastly if presurizing the cylinder results coolaant blowing oout the radiator than you have a cracked head or leaking head gasket.
 
Well, I guess I'll go back up and take the head off. That should tell me a whole lot. If I have to check the rings, so be it. It's nothing money can't fix.
Also somehow the oil cap came up missing,and wouldn't you know it, I can't find one anywhere. If anyone has one or knows where I can find one, I'd be very grateful. I tried auto stores, the local ford dealer, and a tractor dealer, all to no avail. Seems like these 223's are a hard to find parts type motor. I'll probably weld a piece off of an old Chevy valve cover on if it's unavailable.

It's a whole lot different working on a Ford than a Chevy.
You work on a Chevy because you want to.
You work on a Ford because you have to.:yum::yum:
 
You can find just about everything you would need for a Ford 223 on E-Bay. Your oil cap you need is on there right now, NOS for $20.00. The hardest thing to find for a 223 is a "GOOD" (not cracked) exhaust manifold.

I do know of TWO Ford 223 motors still in the trucks sitting in a salvage yard in the UP, however they are older ones, 1958 (I think) some of the parts will carry over to a 63.
 
Thanks Weatherby, I never thought of Ebay. Piece of cake!
I hope I have everything I need to get the job done now.
Your restoration thread is like a bible to me, I am always going back to it. I just can't imagine that anyone having that much $$$$$ to buy it from you.
Thanks again
 
Well, it was a valve, coated in oil keeping the compression down. We've had the head fixed, it's ready to install.
It really wasn't that bad taking it all apart, I hope i can remember how to put it back together. The internet helps, but what really is going be of value is the copy of the 601 shop manual I got from the board president. Man is this thing detailed, wiring, hydraulics, hatch cover gasket, even machine gun turret diagrams.
Now if they only told me where to get a radiator for this thing, because someone did a fantastic job fixing it, its a relic, fit for an air force museum, but not fit for the bus.
Oh, by the way, just kidding about the machine gun turret
 
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