Well here is the part that got deleted. I still don't know what I said that was "kinda harsh" or what I wrote that warrented being deleted. Now I do understand why gamble77 might have gotten deleted, he did inject lots of opinion. I did point that out, but realistically those 3 posts were within the realm of discussion.
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Bob_Skurka
Super Member
Reged: 07/01/03
Posts: 6002
Re: New Kubota M-Series/ Kioti DK Series [Re: RedDog]
#765797 - 11/04/05 09:03 AM
In the past some have said Kioti's looked liked Kubota's. I agree with that, but now it looks to me as if the newer Bota's are starting to resemble Kioti.
I tend to think that Kioti is a copy of New Holland. The CK series did a very nice job of copying the small NH Boomers and copied their loaders too. The larger DKs are also following the curved and slope hood design that New Holland pioneered. Last year John Deere began to put curved and sloped hoods on their larger tractors and this year JD moving the design down their product line. Kioti is moving the curved and sloped hood design up their product line size. Kubota brought out the curved and sloped hood with the B3030 and is adding it to the M series.
So to say the Kubota is copying Kioit is really a joke. The entire industry is following Case/New Holland's innovations that were started 3/4th of a decade ago. Nice to see the other guys starting to catch up with the design leader.
gamble77
Gold Member
Reged: 10/12/04
Posts: 447
Loc: Georgia
Re: New Kubota M-Series/ Kioti DK Series [Re: Bob_Skurka]
#765804 - 11/04/05 09:12 AM
Kind of harsh there Bob...
Bottom line is that yes, maybe NH did pioneer the slopped hood & curved arm loaders but that is obviously the next step in tractor evolution...and for good reason, it makes sense.
But in the same breath to call NH the design leader I think is quite a stretch...If there was one product line that I saw at the Ag Expo that I was least impressed with it was NH...again, I am not the end all judge of what is great and good in the tractor world but I have my opinion...so lets not start throwing opinions around. Yes NH started it, but I think it quite a stretch to call them the design leader and to assume that everybody else is just playing catch-up....
Wilson Tractors & Lawn Care Equip.
Kioti, FarmTrac, Cub Cadet, Grasshopper, BushHog
Bob_Skurka
Super Member
Reged: 07/01/03
Posts: 6002
Re: New Kubota M-Series/ Kioti DK Series [Re: gamble77]
#765841 - 11/04/05 10:21 AM
</font>( Kind of harsh there Bob...
Bottom line is that yes, maybe NH did pioneer the slopped hood & curved arm loaders but that is obviously the next step in tractor evolution...and for good reason, it makes sense.
But in the same breath to call NH the design leader I think is quite a stretch...If there was one product line that I saw at the Ag Expo that I was least impressed with it was NH...again, I am not the end all judge of what is great and good in the tractor world but I have my opinion...so lets not start throwing opinions around. Yes NH started it, but I think it quite a stretch to call them the design leader and to assume that everybody else is just playing catch-up.... )</font>
Huh? I mean seriously what was harsh the part where I suggested that Kubota is not following Kioti? Or the part where I backed up the factual information with evidence that C/NH is the company that led the CUT market with design innovation? Heck first you admit that C/NH did come out with the curved sloped hood, then you agreed they were the first to put a curved loader on a modern CUT and then you said they were not a design leader? Hmmm????
Heck you wrote that "NH started it." Then you said it is a 'stretch' to say they are leading. And you said that their design was "the next step in tractor evolution." If they started it, and it was the next step in evolution, then by definition everyone else IS playing catch up.
After you accuse me of stretching things and further you go on to inject all sorts of opinions about what didn't impress you and you say I am harsh? Hmmm????
Well the fact are all out there. C/NH pioneered the curved loaders on modern CUTs. The industry followed. C/NH poineered the sloped curved hoods. The industry followed. C/NH pioneered Super-Steer and SensiTrac and at least Kubota came up with a weak competitive feature called Bi-Speed Turn which is similar to SensiTrac but doesn't address the Super-Steer advantage. How many brands currently offer the Rabbit/Turtle switch on the loader control? Which brand really raised the ergonomic design of CUTs up to the level they are today by building in easy to reach glove and sunglass holders, cup holders, and even concealed storage areas in the operator platforms?
None of this is to say that C/NH is the best at anything but to say they don't lead in design is simply ignoring the facts. C/NH can stand to improve on some reliablity issues, but then I know of no brand that has the quality control that Kubota has.
Donnyj
Silver Member
Reged: 04/01/05
Posts: 242
Loc: Fulton County, Pa.
Re: New Kubota M-Series/ Kioti DK Series [Re: Bob_Skurka]
#765844 - 11/04/05 10:26 AM
Hey Bob good to see you back! Your input on various posts and topics has been missed. I have to respectfully disagree with the fact that Kubota was copying Kioti. No one ever posted that. He simply posted that the Kubota resembles the Kioti. With the orange paint and tractor design, I have to agree. Also I don't believe anyone was stating that Kioti was an industry leader in the design. Simply the Kubota resembles the Kioti. Which I personally think the new Kubota looks awesome. I really like it. Again, I don't believe anyone here thinks that an industry leader like Kubota needs to copy anything from Kioti or any other tractor for that matter. Great looking tractors from Kubota and Kioti in my opinion. Again, glad to see you back. Look forward to more posting from you in the future.
Donny
rtimgray
Gold Member
Reged: 03/11/02
Posts: 262
Re: New Kubota M-Series/ Kioti DK Series [Re: Bob_Skurka]
#765850 - 11/04/05 10:38 AM
So Bob is back - and unchanged. That is good news
We covered this at least once before, that NH didn't invent/pioneer or be the first to put the curved arm loader on a modern compact tractor. The first one I saw, dating from the eighties, was a grey market Shibaura 1843 (I think) that had one of the Japanese loaders - curved arms and all. Did NH steal it from Shibaura (or borrow, since Shibaura was making compact Ford/NHs). Who knows? In the previous thread that discussed this, someone alluded to the tractor industry being far more incestuous than any of us would really care to know about (design-wise, anyway).