Has anyone tried wind power? In my search for the perfect generator I found this. Very interesting ....and unbelievably cheap. Another to good to be true or what? 
http://www.earth4energy.com/
http://www.earth4energy.com/
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Windmill power sytem.
- Thread starter Doc
- Start date
Cowboyjg
Country Club Member
Doc, The issue with alternative energy, particularly on a homeowner level has more to do with storage. Battery technology hasn't developed far enough yet to allow for anything other than large banks and that takes up room. Also battery lifetime is a problem. We're currently working on a project for the government at a base in Hi trying to use solar to offset some of their current usage. (Pardon the pun) The other issue is asthetics. You're kind of limited to rural applications with wind and some places don't get a whole lot and what they do get is occasional.
Here is a huge wind park going up
Here is a huge wind park going up
BigAl
Gone But Not Forgotten
Doc ,
I have a 400 watt wind turbine included with my solar package in Panama on the house . They work pretty well . It engages at about 7MPH and disengages if the wind gets to high . It also shuts down and brakes if no additional power is needed to the battery's . So far the solar panels work so well that the wind turbine is never used .
I told the local natives that the wind turbine was a propeller and I was trying to make the house fly . Crazy ass Americans
I have a 400 watt wind turbine included with my solar package in Panama on the house . They work pretty well . It engages at about 7MPH and disengages if the wind gets to high . It also shuts down and brakes if no additional power is needed to the battery's . So far the solar panels work so well that the wind turbine is never used .
I told the local natives that the wind turbine was a propeller and I was trying to make the house fly . Crazy ass Americans
If it all ends up getting stored in the batteries, why not just get some batteries and just use a battery charger/tender to keep them ready.
I was anticipating loosing power myself in this last storm. I just made sure the batteries were all charged. I connected to the inverters and had ready to go. One battery can run a few lights, clock... for at least a day. This is the setup I use at night (when I shut down the generator).
Next morning when I fire up the generator, I just put the chargers on the batteries so they're set for the following evening.
I was anticipating loosing power myself in this last storm. I just made sure the batteries were all charged. I connected to the inverters and had ready to go. One battery can run a few lights, clock... for at least a day. This is the setup I use at night (when I shut down the generator).
Next morning when I fire up the generator, I just put the chargers on the batteries so they're set for the following evening.
I can't speak for Al's "flying house" set up in Panama, because that is probably an off-the-grid type system, but the most common set ups I've seen for wind and/or solar for on-grid systems are those that backfeed power to the utility for the purpose of selling power to the power company. Some use battery banks and some do not.
Just about a month ago I looked into putting a solar array on my roof and found that without a tax credit the payback time was 83 years!!! With a tax credit I could get the payback down to about 50 years. This week I did a bit more research and found a guy locally who installed some solar panels, he said he payback on his system is just under 50 years and, if he had waited until 2009 to install it, with the enhanced tax credits we have available, he could have gotten a payback in about 25 years.
Not sure what the lifespan on batteries or inverters are, but solar panels claim a lifespan of 25 years. I doubt a windmill will go 25 years without a few major overhauls. But if the windmill is substantially lower than the solar panels, and if you are in an area where wind is steady, then the windmill systems seem like better options.
It should be noted that my payback times were based on "rough estimates" of costs, not on actual bids.
- Battery bank systems provide power during outages at stable rates for as long as you have battery power, the wind/solar basically power the batteries and the batteries, through an inverter, power the house. When the batteries are fully charged the systems automatically sell power to your utility company.
- NO battery systems only provide power output equal to the wind/sun that is coming into the system. These are much cheaper to install, and are not typically used for back-up power but rather to strictly sell power to the utility. They can be used for SOME back up power but typically don't run the whole house because they don't have a storage component.
Just about a month ago I looked into putting a solar array on my roof and found that without a tax credit the payback time was 83 years!!! With a tax credit I could get the payback down to about 50 years. This week I did a bit more research and found a guy locally who installed some solar panels, he said he payback on his system is just under 50 years and, if he had waited until 2009 to install it, with the enhanced tax credits we have available, he could have gotten a payback in about 25 years.
Not sure what the lifespan on batteries or inverters are, but solar panels claim a lifespan of 25 years. I doubt a windmill will go 25 years without a few major overhauls. But if the windmill is substantially lower than the solar panels, and if you are in an area where wind is steady, then the windmill systems seem like better options.
It should be noted that my payback times were based on "rough estimates" of costs, not on actual bids.
BigAl
Gone But Not Forgotten
Actually Bob , the last thing you want to do is bypass the battery's route and supply power directly to the Utility companies as your primary reason for installing a solar system . The utility companies pay a very small amount per watt which is regulated by goverment standards . You will need that battery backup at anytime your house electrical demands exceed your solar power input . The average system runs about $5 a watt to install if done correctly . Battereys life is about 7-8 years depending on maintance . If you have wind , It is much better than solar panels and MUCH cheaper .
For Example my 400 watt Marine Grade wind turbine cost $800 when installed , My 125 watt solar Panels ran me $625 dollars a piece . Quite a difference .
My problem is I know the sun will shine but never am sure how much wind will blow . I strictly use the wind turbine as backup in long stormy periods.I would delete the wind turbine if I did this again as I have enough battery capacity for 12 days with out it .
In a high wind area the wind turbine would be the way to go . You can buy a wind speed calculator to determine if wind power is worth the cost .
That may vary by state? Here in Indiana the power company credits you at the same rate they charge you. So it works out as a net metering system.
Has anyone tried wind power? In my search for the perfect generator I found this. Very interesting ....and unbelievably cheap. Another to good to be true or what?
http://www.earth4energy.com/
You got it it Doc, too good to be true. I'd want to know how this guy can make "cheap" solar panels and inverters and how he can get those super high dollar batteries for "free". And I might say that I'm not willing to pay for 2 video tapes and a book in order to find out.
I seriously looked in to this a few years back when I got in to a pi***ng contest with the utility company. Back then, if you were already connected to the grid, there was no way that a solar, wind or combo system could ever be financially viable as a replacement for grid power.
I don't know how many solar panels Al has on his house in Panama or what his electricity consumption is, but there isn't much that you can run in a modern American home on a constant basis with a 400 watt wind generator - 4 light bulbs?????. Even starting with a humungous, fully charged battery bank, you're going to be using more power than the turbine is supplying so eventually you're going to be in the dark.
Believe me, I wish that there was an easy and cost effective answer to this question. I don't know if I should mention this but I even explored the possibility of a solar pump on a water well to fill an overhead tank that would be used to run a micro hydro system and charge batteries. That's how intent I was to cut the power company loose.
If anyone comes up with a viable, cost effective way to do it I'll be first in line to buy it. I still hate that utility company.
What people are pushing down in Texas these days is not the stand alone, independent system but a smaller auxiliary system, without batteries, that is designed to augment the grid but not replace it or sell back to it. It doesn't stop your utility bills but reduces them depending on the size of system you install.
Good info guys. Thanks. I can see where Panama would do much better with solar panels that we ever would here is gray skies Ohio. I'm on top of a hill and have plenty of wind. From what I read I'd be worried the wind might be to strong for it much of the time.
I'll be keeping an eye on this technology, but not doing anything until much later..
I'll be keeping an eye on this technology, but not doing anything until much later..
D
darroll
Guest
Doc,
Solar and wind are not a good way to go.
A friend of mine has never paid an electric bill.
He has a river near-by and ran a pipe upstream. He runs a water turbine that really works good. He even sells power to his neighbors. It supplies 220 volts. Some of the other kinds just supply 12 volts dc and it has to be stored in batteries. This thing runs year round with no problems or batteries.
Solar and wind are not a good way to go.
A friend of mine has never paid an electric bill.
He has a river near-by and ran a pipe upstream. He runs a water turbine that really works good. He even sells power to his neighbors. It supplies 220 volts. Some of the other kinds just supply 12 volts dc and it has to be stored in batteries. This thing runs year round with no problems or batteries.
BigAl
Gone But Not Forgotten
Any DC system can be converted to a AC system . You need a inverter to do this .
Also remember that there is a 20% loss when converting DC to AC .
In a small cabin you would be better off to stay with a strickly DC system .
I have one of each type of system in Panama . My Big house has a 2500 watt Trace inverter to supply AC as needed . The cabin on the same property has a DC system and works extremely well . You just need to remember that all appliances( Blenders , mixers , etc) need to be DC to work .
Even if your wired for a AC system in your Remote cabin it is fesible that you can convert to a very simple DC power system that will give you years of trouble free service for very little money . No more noisey Generator blaring away .
Also remember that there is a 20% loss when converting DC to AC .
In a small cabin you would be better off to stay with a strickly DC system .
I have one of each type of system in Panama . My Big house has a 2500 watt Trace inverter to supply AC as needed . The cabin on the same property has a DC system and works extremely well . You just need to remember that all appliances( Blenders , mixers , etc) need to be DC to work .
Even if your wired for a AC system in your Remote cabin it is fesible that you can convert to a very simple DC power system that will give you years of trouble free service for very little money . No more noisey Generator blaring away .
From all the research that I did many years ago, if you have the conditions for it, a micro hydro system is definitely the way to go. It generates constant power, night and day, irrespective of the sunshine, wind or anything else as long as you have the water volume and the head (vertical drop) necessary to run it. They are developing water turbines like you describe that are really interesting but I haven't done enough fact finding about them as I have no large body of flowing water near me that I could use to drive it.
D
darroll
Guest
Etf,
That's the reason that I don't have that kind of a gen.
I even thought about digging down to a underground river.
The hole would not be big enough to lower a generator. Then also the river could come out of the hole..
OOPS.
BigAl
Gone But Not Forgotten
OK ,OK I promise .... again . I'll give you all the details of my off grid setup . Give me a day or two .
I'm busy starting my own Political Party tonight and first things first
.
mtntopper
Back On Track
Another problem to consider is the wind noise pollution of a wind generator. They are noisy if located near your home during moderate to high wind times with a constant whirring sound you will hear. Even at a reasonable distance your neighbors will start complaining. Solar panels with storage batteries are my preference.
D
darroll
Guest
You have to put the wind mills out in the open. They do generate 220 VAC. I would be afraid that some bunch of people would complain it hurt a bird. Then they would probably call you an environmental racist.
I have a off the grid system at my cabin with @450 watts sollar and 1000 watt bergey wind generator on a 80 foot tower . I uses a 3500 watt outback inverter to suppy 120v ac to the cabin with @ 535 amp hr. battery storage at 24v dc. I just spent 3 days at the cabin with lights going and 40in lcd tv running 6hours a day . The wind generator ran most of the time and did a great job of suppling the power that was needed, it is not very loud at all. the solar panels did not putout because it was cloudy most of the days there . So if you are going to have a system you just about need to have both solar and wind. ps . it is cheaper to be hooked up to the grid if you can, but stand alone power is cool to have.