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Who’s made grousers?

bcgofo

Member
I’m picking up a 1201 A spryte (in line 6 and c4 diff). Needs new tracks and grousers don’t have much life left in them. I’m aware of the magnitude of the project but like others have said on here before me, I hope to avoid the mistakes that others have made. I definitely value the input of people with more experience than me on these things too.

The cat has and will have 36” tracks, be used almost exclusively on soft snow. No heavy lifting.

It has A and B style grousers now but sounds like J style may be more appropriate for my intended use. Any issues switching grouser styles? Sprockets need refurbishment.

For those of you who have built your own grousers, what would you do differently? Pics? How have your designs held up?

Belts are toast too. Any reason to go with 2 belts per track vs 4 narrower belts per track that they come with?
 

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I will give you my thoughts and experience, hope it helps. I am sure others have better, different, or more applicable information, but here are my two cents. You may already know this stuff, but here it is just in case it can help you or someone else.

I built grousers and tracks for a Frandee. I realize yours are different (more modern), but if you are going to build your own here are a few things to think about. The Frandee style are wood (I am sure you aren't going with wood, just my case) with a one inch wide steel wear plate on top that contacts the ground/surface. This is great for spinning donuts/cookies and they do fairly well in the snow. However, they side slip badly, especially on hard pack or ice. There are essentially dozens of little one inch wide 32 inch long skis supporting the cat. This has put me in a predicament or two over the years. So based on this, look at the sharper grousers and ones that have a feature to help limit side slippage. As mentioned these are old school design, they stopped making this style probably because of this issue.

Belting: I purchased belting that is 12" wide and was rated for very low temperature from Kaman Industrial Supply. The belting is what is used for grain elevators. It has a very thin (I think 1/16") rubber skin on BOTH sides because the grain is not to abrasive on the belting so they can get away with this. There is also belting that has one or both sides where the rubber is much thicker, this is for handling abrasive materials (rocks, gravel, etc.). I would stay away from this material, it is not needed, robs power, and adds unnecessary weight. My Frandee uses two 12" wide belts per track, I think they are 4 ply. So for both tracks I purchased 100 feet of belting for around $1000 about 5 years ago. Fasteners, my grousers and tire guides are each held on with 10 screws each. In my case strong fasteners are NOT needed, I used light duty grade 2 stuff, and I needed about $1000 worth of screws, washers, and nuts (Mcmaster Carr) for one set of tracks. I also purchased the joining hardware for the belting ends from Kaman (that was a few hundred more dollars). My tracks have held up well, I have over 500 miles on them now and have had no issues with the belting. Be involved in purchasing the belting, do not trust some farm equipment belting supplier, the ones I tried to work with had no idea about temperature ratings or what was all available. Not saying all are like this, I am sure there are very good ones out there, just our local one was no help. Kaman let me look through their literature and we were able to pick out a good material.

I would check the tire guides close for cracks and brakes very closely before reusing them. The majority of my tire guides had to be straightened, repair welded, or made new. Running the wrong tires on the cat can destroy the tire guides. I caution anyone running a Frandee style cat, do not use those old lugged military tires, even though they are the correct size the tires guides do not run on them correctly and the guides get destroyed, ask me how I know. Because my cat had those on it when I got it and the guides were trashed.

Holes in the belting, you do not need to pay some company to drill the holes unless you want to. It is very easy to do. What you do is build a template and drill bit and layout the spacing then drill your own. I used a piece of one inch wide 1/8" thick steel that was the same width as the completed track. I drilled holes in this bar where the bolt holes had to be. Then you layout the spacing on the belting and set the template on the line and drill through using a special bit with a piece of wood on the back side for the drill to go into. The special bit is the secret weapon. figure out what size of hole you need, say 1/4" diameter, find a piece of steel tubing that diameter then sharpen one end so it is a knife edge, NO serrations are necessary. Now put that in your drill and drill away, makes great holes, you will have to clear the plugs out of the tube once in awhile. I do not think I used any lubricant, but one could if they wanted. I also think I had the bevel for the knife edge on the OD of the tube.

Here are some photos of my tracks, when I got them (trash) and when I built them ($10K later):

102_1722.JPG102_1724.JPG102_1726.JPG102_1728.JPG102_1730.JPGDSCN3669.JPGDSCN3672.JPGDSCN3676.JPGDSCN3677.JPGDSCN3686.JPG
 
I just looked at the picture, for this job I just used a hole punch and did not build a special drill bit. Worked great when run in a drill.
 
Wow, thanks for sharing your experience. There’s a lot of really great info here. I know some cats used wood grousers but I didn’t know much about them. Great pics.

Also, thanks for the info on belting and lighter duty fasteners. I haven’t gone down that rabbit hole yet. Nice trick for punching holes 👌

Anyone have a strong opinion on extruded aluminum grousers? Side slipping would be an issue without lugs. They may be a little easier to find than original equipment.

Ive got a few design in mind if I end up going the from scratch route. How important would high centers be (like the original A/B grousers) with the C4 diff? 95% use in soft snow here. As I understand, more of a paddle style grouser gets better powder performance at the expense of hard surface handling/turning. Would I toast my diff or immediately regret the decision because handling would be so poor?
 
I've never made grousers...

I can't remember his screen name, but there was a fellow in Washington state who completely refurbished a Thiokol/DMC 1450 and I am quite sure he made a complete set of new grousers. This is from deep memory, so I may be wrong, but I think he made the first set and had them heat-treated and that process caused them to twist and warp...turning them in to scrap. You might search the forum, and possibly reach out to him for his thoughts.

Dan Gates at Snowcat Service in SLC sells replacement grousers for Thiokol/DMC/LMC machines. I think they're the J style, and I suspect they aren't cheap, but I believe they are high quality.

A few years ago we replaced a bunch of track belts on a Tucker. We used all new hardware and the lowest cost I could find was on ebay. Grade 8 is, like GMoose said, absolutely not required, but there was a better selection and it was surprisingly reasonable in cost. As I recall I needed a quantity different from what was listed and I reached out to a seller for the quantity we needed, and they were very helpful.

Four narrower belts compared with two wider belts will provide better side hill holding at the expense of slightly improved flotation.

Very sadly Brad of Minnesota Outdoors passed away. He was my recommended belt supplier and now I'm not sure who the preferred supplier might be.
 
On punches, the right tool makes it better. I used silicone oil and dipped the bit every few punches. Do be aware the slugs come out hot enough to leave marks. On grades of bolts. in your application I suspect the grade isn't important. In mine, the bolt heads are the wear surfaces and based on the use sofar, I wouldn't want any softer material than GR8. Make certain any edges are broken (have radius, not sharp) which will create wear points.
 
How closely do sprockets need to be paired with grousers? Is it all about the pitch or are there bigger differences I need to keep in mind if I switch style of grousers?

Anyone else care to share their homemade grouser designs?
 
The closer the sprockets match to the grousers the better. Otherwise they have to ride up the cog until they fit. Not a good thing. Mine are 1.5" square tubes which have been tapered on the ends. Solid as you can get, but very heavy. I like them because I frequently run on bare road before I reach solid snow.
 
I have built grousers for Imps. They are the J style drop grousers sold by Dan Gates, mentioned above. I have sold a few sets myself also. I did this project to refurbish an Imp, when i could not find grousers anywhere. I build a press & forming dies to form the components, then jig welded them into a completed assembly.
The press was fairly easy but getting the forming dies exact was tedious. But in the end they fit perfect. There is a reason grousers are expensive, they take a LOT of time and labor to fabricate. These grousers are simply 3/4" 11 guage tubing formed in homemade dies, fitted to fabricated tire guides. A complete set of Imp grousers required 660 bolt holes drilled. I started with a drill press. but switched to a Bridgeport CNC mill to get the hole spacing exact. And to eliminate the tedious labor. Once I got the jig built and programmed I could drill 5 bars every 20 minutes. Don't underestimate the hole drilling. They have to be exact to fit the belting holes.
But in the end every part on these machines can be reverse engineered and reproduced. Just depends on how bad you want it.

The Imp grousers are not heat treated. Call Dan and soak up his advice, he knows grousers.
My Imp dies wont fit bigger machines. My press won’t bend heavier tubing than 3/4”.
BRW For someone with fabrication skills who wants to build Imp grousers - I’m moving on with this, and want to sell my forming press.
Tom
Brighton, CO
 

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I have built grousers for Imps. They are the J style drop grousers sold by Dan Gates, mentioned above. I have sold a few sets myself also. I did this project to refurbish an Imp, when i could not find grousers anywhere. I build a press & forming dies to form the components, then jig welded them into a completed assembly.
The press was fairly easy but getting the forming dies exact was tedious. But in the end they fit perfect. There is a reason grousers are expensive, they take a LOT of time and labor to fabricate. These grousers are simply 3/4" 11 guage tubing formed in homemade dies, fitted to fabricated tire guides. A complete set of Imp grousers required 660 bolt holes drilled. I started with a drill press. but switched to a Bridgeport CNC mill to get the hole spacing exact. And to eliminate the tedious labor. Once I got the jig built and programmed I could drill 5 bars every 20 minutes. Don't underestimate the hole drilling. They have to be exact to fit the belting holes.
But in the end every part on these machines can be reverse engineered and reproduced. Just depends on how bad you want it.

The Imp grousers are not heat treated. Call Dan and soak up his advice, he knows grousers.
My Imp dies wont fit bigger machines. My press won’t bend heavier tubing than 3/4”.
BRW For someone with fabrication skills who wants to build Imp grousers - I’m moving on with this, and want to sell my forming press.
Tom
Brighton, CO
That is exactly the kind of setup I’ve been wanting to build for my 601 grousers. I have a tubing bender and have experimented with making the correct die for it, but if I can make all four bends in each grouser with one operation instead of four that would be a huge time savings. Did you have separate bending dies for the tire guide and wear bar?
 
Moving onto the track project that I’ve been putting off.....grousers are indeed shot or not worth restoring and reassembling. Need to settle on final design.

If I fab up grousers, I’ll probably go with something similar to what AbelLMTV did
Thread 'Rusty the Spryte restomod (from the ground up), check his YouTube
https://www.forumsforums.com/threads/rusty-the-spryte-restomod-from-the-ground-up.84631/

That being said I think a J style, paddle, or extruded AL would work better for my purposes (light cat, breaking trail in deep cold snow, no heavy lifting). Anyone disagree?

Seems that I could cut 2 grousers out of a piece of rectangle tube, reinforce the middle and add guides. It also seems like I might immediately regret this if material is not hardened. Anyone have experience with this? Are all J grousers hardened?

I’ve got more time than mula right now so fabing up would probably cost half (10k for grousers is not in the cards right now).
 
In post number five I mentioned a forum member who as I recall made a complete set of grousers for his 1450/Super Imp. I haven't seen him on the forum for a while, but he seemed like a heck of a nice guy. His screen name is BearGap and you might reach out to him for his thoughts and advice....
 
Blackfoot, thanks! Found his post. I feel like I have read the entire forum but this one slipped my mind; thread drift.


Seems like a great design and strong enough for my purposes.
 
For what its worth the original grousers on my Thiokol 601 (6000+lb cat) are not heat treated from what I can tell. The steel cuts easily with a standard file or hacksaw blade.
 
You might be able to scare up some tracks off of a 2100 that are basically used up (Belts shot) And get usable "J" GROUSERS AND TIRE GUIDES

Then do some redrilling and build a good fresh set of tracks with new belts.

The 2100 cats were the real deal with many ski areas in years past, and there is a lot of that stuff out there...
Yesssss...A fresh set of grousers are spendy.$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

As long as a grouser is not bent up or broken they are fine....A bit of rust is not an issue....

I waited for over a year after getting my cat to find enough stuff to build two good tracks.

Good hunting.....
 
bcgofo.

are you near the guy in BC looking for a complete differential?

He is in British columbia straight up from eastern WA

reason i ask, is shipping, Im in the upper midwest.
 
bcgofo.

are you near the guy in BC looking for a complete differential?

He is in British columbia straight up from eastern WA

reason i ask, is shipping, Im in the upper midwest.
Saw that one too. I’m in western Colorado. Not real close to either of you but it may come down to a road trip.....
 
Saw that one too. I’m in western Colorado. Not real close to either of you but it may come down to a road trip.....
Wondering if we have enough folks looking for winter tracks on Bombardier Bombi BR100 that we could pool together to have them made by a manufacturer and save some $$$$... I spoke with this company recently - Right Track Systems International manufactures and distributes rebuildable rubber tracks for various applications. One of their designs are off-road snowcat tracks specifically designed to reduce ground pressure, pack snow trails, and reduce environmental damage while eliminating the cracking and breaking of OEM bars in summer and winter conditions. USD $12.5K using YOUR original guides or + $6k all NEW guides w/2yr-WTY (that's $18.5k). It's an eye opener but not much fun when you can't get up the hill in the POW. http://www.righttracksystemsinc.com/snow-cat/

If any interest in discussing let me know - Trace
 
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