Which is easier to work on Kristi vs Snowtrac

[BigAl]

Seriously .

Which snowcat do you think would be easier to work on?? A KT3 Kristi or a Snowtrac .

I feel the KT3 is very easy to work on . I look under the hood at a SnowTrac and get dizzy .

Lots of adjustments and don't you dare turn that wheel on a Snowtrac if you are standing still .
The Kristi has 2 parts that are strickly "Kristi made". The transmission and clam shells for the tilt system . Anything else can be purchased from other sources .
The SnowTrac is made in Europe and parts can be hard to get and expensive .
The KT3 is more of the poor mans snowcat while the ST4 was used by the military and phone companys .
They both run the beetle motor which is easy to work on .
ST4's seem to pull more money for a used one but cost more to repair .
KT3's can be found all day for $3000 and up and usually about 2 or 3 grand can put them back on the road .
I would imagine that life expectancy would be about the same for either unit .

I am trying to be open and honest on this to give new catters a idea of what they may be in for when buying a KT3 or ST4 .
Your thoughts ???

 

[Melensdad]

Uh, why would you even have to work on a Snow Trac?

They are perfect already!

 

[BigAl]

Uh, why would you even have to work on a Snow Trac?

They are perfect already!

From the man that did not know they ran on gas ............

 

[Melensdad]

From the man that did not know they ran on gas ............

Let's be fair, in my advanced age I simply forgot where the gas cap was located

Once.

And I learned my lesson on that long walk through the snow.

 

[Snowtrac Nome]

common sense would have to be a snot trac look how long Big Al's been milking his krusty. I purchased mine in the fall and was running it the first winter I owned it. there was some additional work on it the first winter. once I blew out the cobwebs I have been pretty amazed at how reliable and cheap it is to operate. besides look how many snow tracs are still running around they have got to be easy to maintain they are about all still being used. look at the bath tub krustys bobcat's got the only runners I know about. why complicate things with a leveling suspension for something that sits so low to the ground it will slide before it rolls.

 

[utahwilson]

that 2 to 3k to put them back on the road is to purchase a trailer to haul them around right?

Bought mine for $5500 out of Las Vegas of all places. I have probably dropped 10k into it and it is still not running. Expensive hobby if you ask me.

Seriously .

Which snowcat do you think would be easier to work on?? A KT3 Kristi or a Snowtrac .

I feel the KT3 is very easy to work on . I look under the hood at a SnowTrac and get dizzy .

Lots of adjustments and don't you dare turn that wheel on a Snowtrac if you are standing still .
The Kristi has 2 parts that are strickly "Kristi made". The transmission and clam shells for the tilt system . Anything else can be purchased from other sources .
The SnowTrac is made in Europe and parts can be hard to get and expensive .
The KT3 is more of the poor mans snowcat while the ST4 was used by the military and phone companys .
They both run the beetle motor which is easy to work on .
ST4's seem to pull more money for a used one but cost more to repair .
KT3's can be found all day for $3000 and up and usually about 2 or 3 grand can put them back on the road .
I would imagine that life expectancy would be about the same for either unit .

I am trying to be open and honest on this to give new catters a idea of what they may be in for when buying a KT3 or ST4 .
Your thoughts ???

 

[300 H and H]

I think since they made like 20 snow trac's for every kristi, there is no comparison. Also the resale price is telling you the same thing, when you sell a Snow Trac for 3X the money. Lots of guys looking for an ST here. None have posted looking for a Kristi...

Sorry Al

Regards, Kirk

 

[Melensdad]

. . . Lots of guys looking for an ST here. None have posted looking for a Kristi...

Sorry Al

Regards, Kirk

Kirk that was just mean.

Of course there have been people here looking for Kristi snowcats. You can divide them into one of two different groups.

GROUP #1: People looking for a Kristi who see the light and buy a Snow Trac because it is a vastly superior machine.

GROUP #2: Plumbing contractors who are remodeling bathrooms and need to find a cheap fiberglass bathtub to install in a tenement building for a slumlord.​

Come to think of it, doesn't BigAl have some rooms he rents out by the hour?

 

[Kristi Kt-4]

I'm always looking for a Kristi... I have never had the experience of looking at a St in person though. I agree with you Al.... their steering system looks complicated to me! I have always been curious how much room an St has compared to a Kristi and if the operator has to evict the passengers to get out?

 

[Melensdad]

I'm always looking for a Kristi... I have never had the experience of looking at a St in person though. I agree with you Al.... their steering system looks complicated to me! I have always been curious how much room an St has compared to a Kristi and if the operator has to evict the passengers to get out?

Welcome to the asylum

There is actually quite a bit of room inside a Snow Trac, passengers sit sideways and total capacity is 7. Its very crowded with 7. But pretty comfortable with 5 (driver plus 4 passengers). Driver has to step between the passengers legs to get in/out as the passengers sit sideways like in the older Land Rovers so their legs share the center aisle. There is also interior storage under the right side (passenger side) seating area.

 

[Kristi Kt-4]

Very interesting.... It has the seating arrangement like my Kt-4 except the engine and the exhaust duct work are between the driver and passengers. For all the bath tub jokes.... the body is like a hot tub compared to a Kt-3!

 

[Melensdad]

At least the KT4 will float!

Do you have the full body or the open top version?

Pictures!!!

 

[redsqwrl]

HI Matt,

I wondered what it was going to take to get you posting. Good Job Al.

Now on a serious note.

I did give quite a bit of thought on the kristi front. I was concerned about the motor to transmission arrangment of the KT's

I was equally concerned about the ST's until I saw one. the Variator is super simple and very relatable to the haybines I ran as a teen.

I am Kristy curious, and I like the topic.

Mike

 

[Snowtrac Nome]

I think since they made like 20 snow trac's for every kristi, there is no comparison. Also the resale price is telling you the same thing, when you sell a Snow Trac for 3X the money. Lots of guys looking for an ST here. None have posted looking for a Kristi...

Kirk in all honesty I had never herd of a krusty before joining this forum, but I have had a lot of slinging manure back and forth with Big Al since discovering this place . as for the steering in principal it may seem complex. the reality is it's dead simple and I can't think of a better compromise ,between weight and simplicity to achieve the same function.

Sorry Al

Regards, Kirk

Kirk in all honesty I had never herd of a krusty before joining this forum, but I have had a lot of slinging manure back and forth with Big Al since discovering this place . as for the steering in principal it may seem complex. the reality is it's dead simple and I can't think of a better compromise ,between weight and simplicity to achieve the same function.

 

[Kristi Kt-4]

I have the enclosed cab version.... From my research only the Kt-4a will float. I looked more into the history of my machine since the dash tag said Kt-4 but it had the roof exiting exhaust and track flaps. Long story short.... I was told its a hybrid version that was built for the US Army. Here is the logbook info-
Serial number - 00101
Model - KT-4
Date of build - 4/23/1962
Engine - 12V CORV
Engine Serial Number - TO110YC
Original Buyer - US ARMY ATOC
Original Location - DETROIT ARSENAL, Michigan, USA

Mike- I figured I would come out of hiding and finally post after browsing around here for 4 yrs.

 

[BigAl]

Welcome fellow Kristi owner !!!!!
For the rest of you ..... The gloves just came off

Sure,,,there are a hell of a lot more ST4's running around . Want to know why ???
They built about a zillion of them and you have parts rigs to resupply your ST4
There "may be 275 KT3's ever built" if that .Period ! Parts are hard to come by if you need a transmission or a clam shell . I know one guy that has been looking for a transmission for 8 years and still has not found one , that I know of .
Anything else can be purchase online from outfits like McMaster-Carr .
Can you ST4 owners say that with a straight face . ????

I am willing to bet money that there are more KT3's still out there than ST4's "IF" you look at the total percentage built to the percentage still rebuildable .

Now I went up and looked hard at the beautiful FBI rig that Lyndon had rebuilt and I can tell you they are a hell of a lot more complicated than a KT3 when it comes to the steering and braking . Engines are the same . Track system is much more complicated .

I take a lot of crap , by my own doing about my Kristi's and I will not knock the ST4,as it is a proven machine , BUT >>>>> I am willing to bet a KT3 will do everything just as well as a ST4 if both were restored to new condition .
But this thread is about ease of maintance and reliability of the two units . Not about which one cost more to buy used .


Sure , we do not have anyone running a KT3, (that is a FF member) around on a daily basis to give us a report , because there just ain't that many around .
Most KT2's and KT3's died because of the lousy exhaust system that allowed rain water to run down into the heads and ruin the motors .Just flat ass bad planning by the Kristi R&D team's part . No excuses .



Give me about one more week and i'll give you a report on a KT3 and what it can do . I won't speculate until then .


I think the best test of which is a better unit if that is what some are wanting to see is a side by side test of the two .
How about :
Hill climb
side hill stability
Top speed
pulling a load
handle deep powder
Operator comfort

Then we can do a honest evaluation of the two units as far as performace .

Basically , When the CEO of Kristi died in a plane crash , the company basically died with him . He was the driving force and his successor did a lousy job of promoting the company . My KT7 was one if not the only small snowcat design with a hydro drive system that most new cats now run today , and that was in the late 60's . Too bad he died or this might be another story .

 

[300 H and H]

Just 275 KT3's? Really?

There are single years of Snow Trac production that exceed that number... They ae rare.

And yes it is too bad about the ower designer. It's Never good when the chief is gone

Regards, Kirk

 

[BigAl]

There "may be 275 KT3's ever built" if that .Period !

Ok... I was wrong . I went and did some checking and it appears the total number of all models of Kristi were only in the range of 200 total units made . Now that changes everything when you think of

Here is a article I found on Kristi and it is not from the Kristi website :

Colorado and then later in Washington
KRISTI was technically interesting but the company failed to produce commercially numbers of snowcats to compete with other North American or European snowcat manufacturers KRISTI had a very unique ability to raise or lower its tracks individually which had the effect of raising one side of the vehicle to keep the vehicle level while crossing side slopes Further the front or rear of both tracks could be raised or lowered so the snowcat's cabin could remain level while climbing or descending slopes
KRISTI was commercially built in Colorado between the years 1956 and 1968 The company changed ownership and moved to Washington and continued production Production was always on a small scale and the products were very innovative The most refined of the Kristi Snowcats was the last produced and the least successful commercially The total number of KRISTI SNOWCATS made is in dispute one source claimed over 300 but then recanted that and revised it to less than 200 when he responded to an inquiry The company was innovative but not successful and appears to have struggled Of the total production snowcats the most popular model was the KT3 of which approximately 110 were built in Colorado Production numbers are further muddled because of the change in ownership of the company and the moving of the production facilities) It is possible that additional units were manufactured by the new owners in Washington state so it is possible more than 110 KT3 units were built but it is unlikely that many more were produced as the design was outdated by the late 1960s A slightly smaller version of the KT3 was called the KT2 Both the KT2 and KT3 were powered by VW air cooled 4 cylinder engines it is reported that a small percentage may have been powered by Porsche engines The KT2 and KT3 shared mechanicals and even shared the same operators manual The VW engine developed 32 horsepower
Various different sales brochures make different claims about the transmissions used It is therefore possible to find a KT3 with either 8 or 9 forward gears and either 4 or 3 reverse gears The units with 8 forward/4 reverse had a High-Low range ratio of 7:1 All used joystick controls in a V shaped arrangement that were centered under tachometer
Specifications for the KRISTI KT3 stated that it was 11' long 7'4" wide and had a height of 5'9" with an empty weight of 2095 pounds The KT3 was configured for 5 passengers and imparted 046 PSI of pressure onto the snow It had a maximum cargo/passenger capacity of 1500 pounds and a towing capacity of 2000 pounds With a fuel capacity of 20 gallons of gasoline it claims 15 to 18 hours of operating time and a top speed of 20 mph
The KT3 claimed the ability to climb a 100% grade with full load when not on the snow It claimed the ability to climb a 70% grade in snow conditions with a full load and in soft snow (a Snow Trac can do a 90% grade) it claims the ability to traverse a side slope with a 60% grade The Kristi action adjustable track suspension will hold the cabin level on slopes with up to a 25% grade
A larger Kristi snowcat was produced and designated the KT4 and the KT4a The KT4 had a fully enclosed fiberglass body while the KT4a was an open version and "a" designated that it was an amphibious unit capable of floating and crossing streams or ponds The KT4 and KT4a units are very rare and less than 5 are known to exist of a total production that was probably under 20. The KT4 was powered by a Chevrolet Corvair 4 cylinder gasoline engine