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What do I need to know about the Nat'l Guard?

Dargo

Dargo

Like a bad penny...
My son has decided that he is going to enlist in the National Guard tomorrow in Louisville. He is planning on leaving with them later today to go to Louisville to be "processed" and "sworn in" tomorrow. He tells me that he will be leaving a couple days after high school graduation to basic training. Then, at the end of the summer, he will be out to go to school at VMI and the Guard will pay for all of his schooling. His recruiter told me that he will be "un-deployable" while he is in college. Then when graduating from college he will enter active duty with the Army and will have to serve a minimum of 4 years.

My son has a current GPA of 3.85 and apparently scored extremely well on some test he took for the military. He has been in the local JROTC for the last 3 years. Due to these reasons, he already has several scholarships for college without joining anything now. I have made it very clear that I will pay for any college he wants to attend and he does not need to join the military just to have his college costs covered. He tells me that is what he wants to do. He wants to study engineering in college and work as an engineer in the military as an officer.

That is exactly what I know right now. Can anybody tell me anything else I need to know, or should know? He leaves today when he gets out of school. I just don't feel comfortable at all because of what I don't know. However, knowing my son as I do, I don't see him as someone who is going to like the military. Anything and everything that has been hard to do and physically demanding around the house and property he has not had much to do with. His mother has always let him out of doing the hard work and I've done it. When I do get him to work with me on a physically demanding job he is quick to disappear and I end up doing the work. Don't get me wrong, he is a strong kid and has been the captain of his JROTC travelling competition squad where they go through their training courses. I guess it's just that I am terrified that he is going to find himself in boot camp deciding that it is not fun and then wanting to quit; only to find out that he can't. Maybe I'm wrong, but those are my thoughts now. Any suggestions or help would be appreciated.
 
Brent, from what you are saying about your son, I would not worry.

There is work around the house and then there are challenges that people rise up to. The fact that your son avoids doing yard work does not seem to affect in any way his ability to rise up to challenges that the JROTC has thrown his way. In fact he seems to thrive on the competition of the JROTC if he made to captain of the traveling team.

As for deployment, it is my understanding that he could not be deployed unitl after college. Even if deployed at that time (4 years from now) as an officer with a engineering background, he is probably just as likely to end up in the army corps of engineers bailing out New Orleans as he is going to some foreign land. And since most of our foreign based troops are not in combat, then he's still likely to be safe.

I have to give him credit and the respect that is due to him. He is taking the inititive to do things on his own. Can't find any fault in that! Rest easy tonight, he could have told you he wanted to become a politician.
 
Brent,

I'm not familiar with the requirements to enter VMI. If you do attend, are you required to perform a stint in the military? Do the scholarships come with strings attached about serving?

If he can attend VMI without the obligation, that's what I'd suggest. He's making an 8-10 year committment by joining the NG right now, going to VMI + 4 years in the Army. If he changes his mind somewhere along the way and decides he's interested in something else, too bad... He's locked in, period.

I scored pretty high on the ASVAB testing for the military. Do they still call it ASVAB? Whatever they call the admissions testing. I took the test when I was 16 (which was actually against the rules) and qualified for the Navy's nuclear power program. The requirement for that was 6 years active duty. I signed up anyway on their delayed entry program since I needed to finish high-school first. Upon further consideration I opted out and went to college (which is the only way out of the contract). 4 years education + 2 years in a sub just didn't seem like what I wanted to do after further review.

Went to college for awhile and then reconsidered the military. I then joined the USMC. Once in boot camp, I was approached to join the USMC OCS program and become an officer. At the time, it was a 10 year committment so I opted out (again, the duration was more than I wanted to lock into at the time)

I stayed in the enlisted ranks and worked in aviation electronics for 4 years. I would have thought that specialty was marketable when I got out (more so than infantry). Well... NOT.

Anyway, I mentioned my experience to give some insight on what your son needs to consider.
1. What he wants to do now (by joining), locks him into a very long engagement for which there is no exit. 8-10 years is a long time and I'm going to guess he may change his mind over the years or at least ponder whether he's made the correct decision.
2. If his long term goal is engineering (although you hadn't mentioned what kind), he needs to do some analysis on the types provided and also what his role will be during his tenure. In many cases, the officers are not the ones doing a large percentage of the actual work. Almost every officer receives a certain amount of administrative duties not related to their expertise which digs deep into their capabilities/time to work in their specialty.
3. Depending on the type of engineering, he needs to look at the marketability of that specialty once he gets out. Many of the military's jobs, although high-tech don't have much of a place in the civilian world.
4. The salary doesn't provide much more than what's required for living expenses.

Now, all that said (and much of it probably came off as negative), I'm all for people joining the military. I've just seen so many members of the service find that their contract is too long as they've achieved their maximum potential well before their contract is out. Then they're just buying time, waiting to get out and their morale lowers.

I would propose he does a phased approach. Attend VMI now. Sign up for active duty only when actually required and for the position and duration he can accept at that particular time.
 
Dargo said:
... He tells me that he will be leaving a couple days after high school graduation to basic training. Then, at the end of the summer, he will be out to go to school at VMI and the Guard will pay for all of his schooling. His recruiter told me that he will be "un-deployable" while he is in college. Then when graduating from college he will enter active duty with the Army and will have to serve a minimum of 4 years.
...
He tells me that is what he wants to do. He wants to study engineering in college and work as an engineer in the military as an officer.
...
Anything and everything that has been hard to do and physically demanding around the house and property he has not had much to do with. His mother has always let him out of doing the hard work and I've done it. When I do get him to work with me on a physically demanding job he is quick to disappear and I end up doing the work. ...I am terrified that he is going to find himself in boot camp deciding that it is not fun and then wanting to quit; only to find out that he can't.
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All things change, so it may not be as I recall. High school student with outstanding grades and test scores, jrotc, etc. joins the NG. As stated above he will go to basic training/advanced individual training following graduation. Prior to graduation he will attend training assemblies one weekend per month with the guard, and after completion of BCT/AIT he will be assigned to a duty position in the unit of assignment, have monthly scheduled unit training assemblies, and annual training normally conducted during summer months for two weeks.
It sounds like the schooling at VMI is similar to the ROTC program, in which a member of the NG can utilize ROTC and following graduation is commissioned, except I was never familiar with a requirement for four years active duty following graduation.
As far as being “un-deployable” while in college... normally in the NG once the member completes BCT/AIT he is a deployable asset; again, the ROTC or VMI agreement may change that. The services used to have brochures explaining requirements and benefits for varying enlistment options, and these were often intended to ease the minds of parents. You might want to talk to the recuiter and ask questions about options yourself.
It's not a guarantee, but the BCT/AIT phase often makes for a much more responsible person. He'll find that it is next to impossible to disappear and will most certainly want to quit several times before he completes it, and he'll probably return home a much more confident and responsible person.
Good luck to both of you.
 
Dargo said:
My son has a current GPA of 3.85 and apparently scored extremely well on some test he took for the military. He has been in the local JROTC for the last 3 years. Due to these reasons, he already has several scholarships for college without joining anything now. I have made it very clear that I will pay for any college he wants to attend and he does not need to join the military just to have his college costs covered. He tells me that is what he wants to do. He wants to study engineering in college and work as an engineer in the military as an officer. ....................................

Any suggestions or help would be appreciated.
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Brent,

I would be damn proud of him. Some kids are brought up with some good morals. Even though you tell him you will pay for his schooling he maybe wants to do it on his own. Again, I would be damn proud of him. He has a drive a lot of kids don't have any more. Again, I would be damn proud of him. A great GPA. And I think you should give yourself a pat on the back as you did well in his upbringing and now you have to continue to support him in anyway you can.


murph
 
Dargo said:
I don't see him as someone who is going to like the military. Anything and everything that has been hard to do and physically demanding around the house and property he has not had much to do with. His mother has always let him out of doing the hard work and I've done it. When I do get him to work with me on a physically demanding job he is quick to disappear and I end up doing the work.
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Sure sounds like officer material to me. :D

Seriously, Congrats Brent! :thumb:

As his dad I'm afraid it is to late to influence this factor of your sons life. Other than worry about his decision there is not much you can do to affect the situation in a positive way. You have to let him do what he feels the need to do. As BC said you will see a stronger more mature man return when he does visit home. I to was more worried about the time commitment and didn't take advantage of what the military had to offer. Your son will walk away with the experience of a lifetime and more self confidence than you can imagine.

And .... he will understand the meaning of helping dad do the work. He will no longer disappear when the work gets tough. All teens go through those phases and grow out of them. The military will simply help him grow out of it quicker.

If you talked to him of the commitment and he realizes what he is signing up for, that is about all you can do. You and I know he is probably signing up for more than he 'thinks' he is at this point. But in the long run I do believe it will be good for him.

I wish I had me head on straight and had done what your son is doing. Like I said I didn't want to commit to the time. So I served as enlisted and did college with the GI bill once I got out. Serving time as an officer will be a better experience than college. It will make a leader out of him. He will learn the duties of command and the feeling of being in charge.

Best wishes to him as he starts out on this journey. :tiphat: :a1: :applause:
 
Thanks for all the replies so far. Maybe I'm the one being the baby here; worrying about my first child leaving home - and to think I have 4 more after him. :smileywac I'm supposed to be doing work for my taxes right now as well as preparing for an all day meeting I'm doing tomorrow, but I can't concentrate for 2 minutes on anything else. :o

I'm afraid that at this point any negative comments I make would only make things worse. I actually have an extreme appreciation and respect for the military. I nearly enlisted out of college, but for some reason it just didn't quite seem to fit what I wanted. He tells me that he understands what he is doing and what he wants. Maybe he is right, but I can only think of what I "thought" I wanted to do when I was 18 and just getting out of high school. It turns out that it was nothing close to what I'm doing now. In essence, I didn't have a clue what I really wanted. Hell, at the end of my senior year of college I was pretty well voted as the most likely to work hard, play harder, and the least likely to get married and, especially the least likely to have kids anytime soon. I got married 3 years out of college and now have 5 kids.

I don't even know how medical will be taken care of, if it will be covered by the military, etc. I guess I have more questions than answers still, but I suppose I need to place a good amount of trust in my son's decisions and support him as best I can. My thoughts seem to be close to Brian's in that I wished he would have delayed actually enlisting until after college; or at least until late in college, thus leaving other options open.

I suppose that I'll take him out to eat as soon as he gets home from school, take him to the local base for his ride over to Louisville to be processed, tell him that I fully support him and that I love him. Damn, I sure didn't think this would be as hard for me as what it is. I know it sounds stupid, but part of me is silly enough to want me to go enlist with him so I can be with him, protect him, and help him along. I know, it's being stupid, but I'm having a hard time realizing that he is a man now and I need to let go a bit. :cry:
 
Brent,

I was in a very similar situation when I graduated form HS. Only I wanted to enter for Rotary Wing Aviation (Army Warrent Officer Program).

Long story short, I was talked out of it and have regretted the decision ever since. I was a good student but lacked the self discipline for college right out of HS, with the expected results. It took me another 18 years before I finally went back to finish my degree.

Encourage him and he will make you even more proud.

Congratulations.
 
Brent, from the time your son was born you have been raising, teaching, preparing your son for life on his own. To be successfull, upstanding,a well rounded person.
I know this isnt easy for you or your wife to watch their first born "leave the nest" , and its always a parents nature to want to protecet their children. Be proud of your son, for he is wanting to begin his journey in life, and stand on his own to feet. The one you helped him prepare for.
Finally, be proud of yourself for raising such a fine son! You did good
 
Dargo said:
Damn, I sure didn't think this would be as hard for me as what it is. I know it sounds stupid, but part of me is silly enough to want me to go enlist with him so I can be with him, protect him, and help him along. I know, it's being stupid, but I'm having a hard time realizing that he is a man now and I need to let go a bit. :cry:
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You need to stand up and be proud of who your son turned out to be.
My son is in Germany in the Air Force - I felt the same way when he told me he had enlisted - and not a day goes by that I don't think about him, and grow prouder of him for being the man he is.

God Bless you Dargo

Email is great for staying in touch with him - Thank you Mr. Gore for inventing the Internet!
 
You should be proud of your son. However, your son should not believe one thing that the recruiters tell him. As far as not being deployed while going to college, that may not be true. If the unit he is in gets called up, they may or may not call all of them up. If the call up the whole unit, his education will get interrupted. The recruiters get paid by the number of people that they sign up along with bonuses. They are not the best ones to get an unbiased opinion from. Their job is to sell the guard.
 
Here's a little story that kind of fits in here...
(I hope I didn't copy it from FF this morning!)

Why parents drink

A father passing by his son's bedroom was astonished to see that his bed
was nicely made and everything was picked up. Then he saw an envelope,
propped up prominently on the pillow that was addressed to "Dad." With
the worst premonition he opened the envelope with trembling hands and
read the letter.
Dear Dad:
It is with great regret and sorrow that I'm writing you. I had to elope
with my new girlfriend because I wanted to avoid a scene with mom and
you. I have been finding real passion with Stacy and she is so nice.
But
I knew you would not approve of her because of all her piercing,
tattoos, tight motorcycle clothes and the fact that she is much older
than I am. But it's not only the passion...Dad she's pregnant.
Stacy said that we will be very happy. She owns a trailer in the woods
and has a stack of firewood f or the whole winter. We share a dream of
having many more children. Stacy has opened my eyes to the fact that
marijuana doesn't really hurt anyone. We'll be growing it for ourselves
and trading it with the other people that live nearby for cocaine and
ecstasy.
In the meantime we will pray that science will find a cure for AIDS so
Stacy can get better. She deserves it .
Don't worry Dad. I'm 15 and I know how to take care of myself.
Someday I'm sure that we will be back to visit so that you can get to
know your grandchildren.

Love, Your Son John

PS. Dad, none of the above is true. I'm over at Tommy's house. I just
wanted to remind you that there are worse things in life than the report
card that's in my center desk drawer. I love you. Call me when it's safe
to come home
 
Brent ,
As a Dad, I can share Your concern about Your Son. But, I think He'll do just fine . He'll most likely become an officer . And, if He exhibits any of the traits You do , He'll be well respected by His Men . John
 
REDDOGTWO said:
It is ok that you copied it from FF as the posting is over four hours old.:smileywac
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That one was so good - it had me laughing so hard I almost peed my pants. Thanks Doc!
 
I hate to be the lone voice here, but I am very sceptically about anything that recruiters say now days. A friends daughter went to the recruiters office to inquire about joining the service, and took some tests. She was told all sorts of positive things, but when it came to signing the contract, she wanted to have it reviewed by her parents. She was pressured to sign the contract when presented, but stood her ground. When her parents read through the entire contract, they learned that all that was promised had lots of loop holes in it that would invalidate the promises. In plain English, in paragraph 1 through 4 they gave her rights, 5 through 7 they took them away, and 8 through 10, they denied that they ever existed. Recruiters are under pressure to fill the slots, and if he doesn't need the financial resources to attend, then he shouldn't be in a rush to sign up. You can only guide him, but he really needs to know and understand all the fine print in the contract. There is no free ride, and if he doesn't do well in school for whatever reason, they can put him into active duty.
 
bczoom said:
Brent,

I'm not familiar with the requirements to enter VMI. If you do attend, are you required to perform a stint in the military? Do the scholarships come with strings attached about serving?

If he can attend VMI without the obligation, that's what I'd suggest. He's making an 8-10 year committment by joining the NG right now, going to VMI + 4 years in the Army. If he changes his mind somewhere along the way and decides he's interested in something else, too bad... He's locked in, period.

I scored pretty high on the ASVAB testing for the military. Do they still call it ASVAB? Whatever they call the admissions testing.
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I just returned from dropping him off. He will be "processed" tomorrow. I spent over an hour just reading over the forms he had at the local office and asking questions about them. I'm glad I did for several reasons. First off, I want my son to read everything before he signs. Secondly, we found an error. As per his Colonel at his JROTC, he qualified to start off immediately as a pay grade E-3, not E-1 as they had listed. They said that they would change it later. We waited for them to get the corrected forms sent to the office before he signed them.

I don't have a clue what the ASVAB test is, but I saw my son's score was a 93. That doesn't mean anything to me, but the ranking officer at the office seemed to be very proud of having someone from his office go to be processed with that score. All I really got out of it was that no job or position was eliminated from being a choice for my son.

I'm going to leave a meeting that I'm having for my employees early tomorrow so I can go pick up my son after his processing and swearing in. Since I don't generally sleep much, I have this feeling that I won't be sleeping any tonight. He will only be living at home for another 5 weeks. Man, that part seems to really be hitting home hard right now. He leaves 2 days after his high school graduation and his "mandatory return date" from his basics is only 12 days from his first day at VMI. So, for all intents and purposes, he will be gone in 5 weeks. It seems like it was just yesterday that we brought him home from the hospital when he was born. I distinctly recall having the feeling then that it seemed odd that "they" trusted us enough to actually bring this baby home and raise it all by ourselves. Now he is going and all I can think about is all the times I had to work over time, all the times I had to be gone on business trips, and all the times I got on to him for not doing what I asked him to do.

Strange, I just can't seem to concentrate on finishing my work day today...

P.S. Junk, I did absolutely everything I could to try to convince him to put off this decision for another 4 years; until after college. I assured him that, believe it or not, I could swing tuition at VMI for him and would be more than happy to do so if he would hold off on this decision. Hell, he already has several academic scholarships that cover a large portion of the tuition anyway. He would have no part of it.
 
Brent, let me echo others in saying you should be proud of your son. I went through all the same emotions when my son enlisted in the Corps, but I'm extremely proud of him. Your son will do fine at boot camp. They look to get the recruits through, not send them home.
I was just IM'ing my son and he said a 93 was a very good score. He thought the average score is about 80.
Good on ya for keeping an eye on the recruiter-they're liable to say anything to get an enlistee.
Hang tough and be proud! Hutch
 
ASVAB (based on a google search) is still an acronym for initial testing. A 93 is a great score. I don't have my records in front of me but (toot my own horn here) that's about what I got. Basically, if physically qualified, you can pick what you want to do in the military.

My parents went through what you're experiencing now. This may be the ultimate example of what kids can do to their parents to make them worry. I went in during the war/issue (whatever you want to call it) Lebanon scenario. My parents were worried sick. I'm sure your son is smart and can handle himself.
 
Brent,
Here is another angle, maybe a bit similar to AV8r's. I scored high on the ASVAB's, graduated near the top of my class, and was heavily courted by both the Navy and the Airforce. Both recruiters were telling me I had the credentials to be a fighter pilot candidate. But as stated above the committment was very long, compared to my age at the time, which was around 18. I think it was a 9 year plan, 4 years college and 5 active duty. I declined and went on to Engr. school.
I really don't regret my decision, but sometimes I have to wonder. If I had went that route and qualified and survived; both big if's; I would now have been retired with full benefits for almost 10 years. And would probably now be jocking a commercial jet at the tune of 150K plus. Nine yeary sounds like a long time when your eighteen; but now looking back at how many 9 year periods have passed; well like I said it makes you wonder.

Sound like you got a damn fine kid.
 
Glink said:
I would now have been retired with full benefits for almost 10 years. And would probably now be jocking a commercial jet at the tune of 150K plus.
Click to expand...
Well, it's great in thought but it rarely works out like that...
 
bczoom said:
Well, it's great in thought but it rarely works out like that...
Click to expand...

Indeed, that thought was part of my decision making process; as well as the fact that the recruiter is basically a salesman.
 
Damn, the mental torture goes on! I got back from my business meeting today and my son was at home on the couch. WTH?! Apparently his vision prescription is over 8, and that requires a special waiver from his eye physician that states his vision corrects to 20/20. It does, so now it looks like he gets to do this same thing next Monday. I don't know if I'm happy about this new thing or not.
 
They are putting the onus on a civilian doctor to certify him, so they will be relieved of all future problems if his eye sight should get worse. Eye sight can be the determining factor as to what type of schooling he might be qualified for, so all the "promises" might just go out the window. Try to convince him to just go to school on his scholarships and parental funding for a year, and then reconsider what he really wants to do. As someone else has said, recruiters are salesmen, and if they don't perform, they don't get advancement. Their own futures is much more important to them that that of the recruits...
 
It gives you another week to talk some sense into him. It now gives you a chance to be the salesman.:smileywac
 
We used to call them "no-go's".

That's all I know about the National Guard.

Only thing I could tell you about doctors is that the civilian doctors wanted to operate on me (shoulder), the ones at Walter Reed told me it wouldn't matter, it was 50/50 at best. Didn't go with the operation and have been fine since. Since then, never trusted civilian doctors, figure they have money to make as a factor.
 
Quick - get him a hot girlfriend that puts out (and is on the pill). He'll be stuck on her for at least a few weeks and you can try to convince him to choose an alternative plan. Maybe pay her to say she is going to VMI too.
 
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